A book metaphor on consistency
Snit
claimed that since I advocate for *more* choice this somehow, though nobody
can say how, means I am *against* choice.
Chris Ahlstrom posted the following about a book:
In spite of the book's size, the rigorous use of styles
facilitated by the LyX software yields visual consistency
throughout the book. Because LyX is a front end to the LaTeX
typesetting language, the typesetting of the book is
exquisite. This is a very aesthetic and readable book.
All too often people use car analogies... but I think a book analogy is
better at getting across the points I have been talking about in COLA. So
let me try again to help some people understand. Who knows, once they
understand they might even agree... but the real goal is just to help them
understand my point. If they disagree, so be it: at least they can disagree
from a place of understanding and not just a knee-jerk "you are against
choice" or "so make your own distro" BS which shows deep *misunderstanding*
of what I have been talking about. So enough of a pre-amble, here goes:
A book is a single unit, much like a computer system. It has chapters and
sections... much as a system might have types of applications and then
applications themselves. Or maybe different developers and then the
applications themselves: however you break it down - both have discreet
"subunits".
With a book it is a given that you want "visual consistency", though, of
course, there may be times to break that consistency - say to have different
topics in a book have different symbols or colors or whatever. Makes it
easy to find the unit on X, just look for the X symbol in the upper left
hand corner (or wherever). Still, these inconsistencies from chapter to
chapter (or unit to unit) should be done for the benefit of the reader - not
the whim of the author. Even when you have a compilation, a book with many
authors with different writing styles and different ideas, the
*presentation* should be consistent *unless* there is a reason why it would
benefit the *reader* to have it not be. Now this would not be absolute: one
author might use long paragraphs and complex language, another might use
short paragraphs and simple sentences - but the font, the page number
placement, the headers and footers, the margins, the kerning and ligature
usage... and much more, should be consistent (again, unless there is a
reader-based reason for it not to be).
No reason, of course, why *different* books should not have different layout
options, though, of course, they should follow established best practices
or, sometimes, extend those best practices. But there is a great deal of
research on readability... a good, professional, book should benefit from
that mass of knowledge.
Anyone disagree? Anyone think that every chapter should be laid out with a
different philosophy? Would that show "choice"? I do not think so... but
maybe others will disagree.
So now take these ideas to desktop Linux. With a system you want to have
"visual consistency", though, of course, there may be times to break that
consistency - say to have different contexts have different symbols or
colors or whatever. Makes it easy to see that you are in a application X or
whatever. Still, the inconsistencies from application to application (or
application type to application type... or developer to developer) should be
for the benefit of the *user* - not the whim of the developer (other than
some branding which is a reality to deal with). Even with a system with
programs from many different developers, the *presentation* should be
consistent *unless* there is a reason why it would benefit the *user* to
have it not be. Now this would not (and should not!) be an absolute: one
developer might think it is best to use a three-pane UI to show messages,
another might think separate windows are best - but the font, the common
menu terminology, the common dialogs, the title bar layout... and much more,
should be consistent (again, unless there is a user-based reason for it not
to be).
No reason, of course, why *different* distros should not have different UI
options, though, of course, they should follow established best practices
or, sometimes, extend those best practices. But there is a great deal of
research on UI usability... a good, professional, desktop Linux distro
should benefit from that mass of knowledge.
Also: unlike a book which is set in... well, not stone, but paper and
permanent ink, a desktop system should be changeable after the fact... give
the user control and *choice*. Let the user decide these things... though,
of course, each distro could have their own presets.
Nothing *against* choice. Nothing insisting one cannot use an inconsistent
distro (or book). And nothing saying an added distro would benefit the
clearly flawed ecosystem of Linux / OSS.
Hopefully that helps some folks to understand. Really.
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
Megabyte
news:C73EE0D1.57725%use...@gallopinginsanity.com...
So when MS used different interfaces for applications within it's Office
2007 suite those inconsistencies are problematic? Compare Outlook 2007 and
Word 2007, specifically the toolbar. Now look at Office 2008 for the Mac
and compare UI in Entourage with that for Word. Even the toolbar layout in
Pages and Keynote are laid out slightly different. There are differences
through out applications and OS's, Linux is not alone in this.
Snit
When apps do different things you expect them to be different. Do you have
specific examples? I do with Office 2003:
<http://csma.gallopinginsanity.com/interface/pages/Office2003.html>
The two different colors are from different skins, so those would be the
same in one system. But look at the order of items on the title bar, look
at the having or lacking of icons in the upper left, look at the icons in
the upper right... even the height / count of dots of the menu bar. All in
one suite. Why? Office 2007 is much better, though not all of the programs
were fully updated.
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
High Plains Thumper
> "Snit" wrote...
>
>> Ok, once again several people have mistakenly - likely even
>> dishonestly - claimed that since I advocate for *more* choice this
>> somehow, though nobody can say how, means I am *against* choice.
[snip]
> So when MS used different interfaces for applications within it's
> Office 2007 suite those inconsistencies are problematic? Compare
> Outlook 2007 and Word 2007, specifically the toolbar. Now look at
> Office 2008 for the Mac and compare UI in Entourage with that for
> Word. Even the toolbar layout in Pages and Keynote are laid out
> slightly different. There are differences through out applications
> and OS's, Linux is not alone in this.
I agree. It is all a part of programmer discretion on menuing layouts.
Last time, Snit made a big deal of use of the word "quit" instead of
"exit" as being confusing to the user along with other similar nonsense.
Snit's opening statement is indicative of starting another circus, if
like the others, dwells on insignificant issues made into major ones. In
illustrating his points often modifies and doctors up his exhibits on
his website to suite his trolling agenda. Hence this is why most have
him killfiled, and those who don't simply ignore him.
--
HPT
JEDIDIAH
>
>
> "Snit" <use...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote in message
> news:C73EE0D1.57725%use...@gallopinginsanity.com...
>> Ok, once again several people have mistakenly - likely even dishonestly -
>> claimed that since I advocate for *more* choice this somehow, though
>> nobody
>> can say how, means I am *against* choice.
>>
>> Chris Ahlstrom posted the following about a book:
>>
>> In spite of the book's size, the rigorous use of styles
>> facilitated by the LyX software yields visual consistency
>> throughout the book. Because LyX is a front end to the LaTeX
>> typesetting language, the typesetting of the book is
>> exquisite. This is a very aesthetic and readable book.
>>
>> All too often people use car analogies... but I think a book analogy is
>> better at getting across the points I have been talking about in COLA. So
>> let me try again to help some people understand. Who knows, once they
>> understand they might even agree... but the real goal is just to help them
>> understand my point. If they disagree, so be it: at least they can
>> disagree
>> from a place of understanding and not just a knee-jerk "you are against
>> choice" or "so make your own distro" BS which shows deep
>> *misunderstanding*
>> of what I have been talking about. So enough of a pre-amble, here goes:
>>
>>
>> A book is a single unit, much like a computer system. It has chapters and
Actually... NO.
What distinguishes a computer is the fact that is is NOT a "single unit".
It is not just one tool but it can be many tools depending on what the
operator wants from it. It can be a Tivo or a Data Warehouse or anything in
between.
[deletia]
A computer is a product that is meant to be altered by the consumer
frequently and often. It doesn't really have a good analog in any other
technology.
--
Apple: Because if it's not Quicktime, then it's pirated. |||
/ | \
Megabyte
So your example shows inconsistency in Office 2003. That was my point,
Linux is no better or worse in my opinion. Take your Office 2003
example and view the same menu bar in OpenOffice applications and there
is very little difference in ordering.
If you would like a Mac Office 2008 toolbar example, look at the
placement of Undo\Redo in Word, Excel and PowerPoint.
All of these differences are very small and insignificant to most and to
paint Linux or FOSS to be any worse than the proprietary OS and app
options I think is a stretch.
Snit
...
>>> So when MS used different interfaces for applications within it's Office
>>> 2007 suite those inconsistencies are problematic? Compare Outlook 2007 and
>>> Word 2007, specifically the toolbar. Now look at Office 2008 for the Mac
>>> and compare UI in Entourage with that for Word. Even the toolbar layout in
>>> Pages and Keynote are laid out slightly different. There are differences
>>> through out applications and OS's, Linux is not alone in this.
>>
>> When apps do different things you expect them to be different. Do you have
>> specific examples? I do with Office 2003:
>>
>> <http://csma.gallopinginsanity.com/interface/pages/Office2003.html>
>>
>> The two different colors are from different skins, so those would be the
>> same in one system. But look at the order of items on the title bar, look
>> at the having or lacking of icons in the upper left, look at the icons in
>> the upper right... even the height / count of dots of the menu bar. All in
>> one suite. Why? Office 2007 is much better, though not all of the programs
>> were fully updated.
>>
>
> So your example shows inconsistency in Office 2003. That was my point,
> Linux is no better or worse in my opinion. Take your Office 2003
> example and view the same menu bar in OpenOffice applications and there
> is very little difference in ordering.
OpenOffice I believe is better than that. As is Office 2007. But desktop
Linux has all sorts of oddities like that - and worse. Here are some
examples, showing inconsistencies and other UI gaffs (though some might be
outdated):
From PCLOS:
Poorly done menus
<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS-menu.pdf>
Poorly done dialogs:
<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS.pdf>
Poorly done and Inconsistent dialogs:
<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS2.pdf>
Mouse pointers that do not do as they say:
<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS.mov>
Even Ubuntu has its share of quirks - though it is clearly done much better:
<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/ubuntu-menu.pdf>
And the more recent one showing copy and paste oddities and weird text
behavior on selection:
<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/ubuntuCP.mov>
> If you would like a Mac Office 2008 toolbar example, look at the
> placement of Undo\Redo in Word, Excel and PowerPoint.
Have them all... will look later. But even if all very different, that is
not as bad as the examples I show, above. I can, however, agree that no OS
(environment) is perfect. Even OS X, which is the gold standard in this
area, has a ways to go.
> All of these differences are very small and insignificant to most and to
> paint Linux or FOSS to be any worse than the proprietary OS and app
> options I think is a stretch.
Look at the examples I show, above. There are many more.
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
Snit
on 12/4/09 6:21 PM:
> Megabyte wrote:
>> "Snit" wrote...
>>
>>> Ok, once again several people have mistakenly - likely even
>>> dishonestly - claimed that since I advocate for *more* choice this
>>> somehow, though nobody can say how, means I am *against* choice.
>
> [snip]
>
>> So when MS used different interfaces for applications within it's
>> Office 2007 suite those inconsistencies are problematic? Compare
>> Outlook 2007 and Word 2007, specifically the toolbar. Now look at
>> Office 2008 for the Mac and compare UI in Entourage with that for
>> Word. Even the toolbar layout in Pages and Keynote are laid out
>> slightly different. There are differences through out applications
>> and OS's, Linux is not alone in this.
>
> I agree. It is all a part of programmer discretion on menuing layouts.
> Last time, Snit made a big deal of use of the word "quit" instead of
> "exit" as being confusing to the user along with other similar nonsense.
Interesting you pick that example. That very example confused Peter
K�hlmann:
Peter K�hlmann:
The apps with "Quit" do *not* exit, they continue to run
in the background.
But the primary problem is not confusion. That is a straw man.
> Snit's opening statement is indicative of starting another circus, if
> like the others, dwells on insignificant issues made into major ones. In
> illustrating his points often modifies and doctors up his exhibits on
> his website to suite his trolling agenda. Hence this is why most have
> him killfiled, and those who don't simply ignore him.
See how you lie. It is pathetic.
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
High Plains Thumper
> Megabyte stated:
Yup, Snit back to the same old crap as 11 months ago, as follows:
[quote]
> Here are some of the inconsistencies (and other oddities) I
> have documented in a relatively recent versions of desktop
> Linux:
>
> From PCLOS:
>
> Poorly done menus
> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS-menu.pdf>
Very nit picky, making a mountain out of a mole hill. "Exit" versus
"Quit"? You're kidding.
> Poorly done dialogs:
> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS.pdf>
Dialogs cut off? There is a slider bar at the bottom, and one can
resize the dialogue box. Looks like you resized the dialogue box to
suit your anti-Linux agenda.
> Poorly done and Inconsistent dialogs:
> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS2.pdf>
You moved and dragged the task bar, aligned vertical with the side of
the screen. That is freedom and for you it is a problem? Buttons
cut off by default? I did what you did by shrinking the window.
FireFox shows ">>", which shows the remainder of that favourites
toolbar menu, not as you show.
> Mouse pointers that do not do as they say:
> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS.mov>
In this case, file window dialogue box did not stretch, but all text
items are visible, fully functional. Windows XP does the same. This
is okay for Microsoft software but not okay for Linux? Who are you
kidding?
> Even Ubuntu has its share of quirks - though it is clearly
> done much better:
>
> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/ubuntu-menu.pdf>
What is unusal about individual expression of how menus are set up in
applications? I see the same thing with Windows software. Adobe's
menu items differ from Corel's, differ from Ulead.
> And the more recent one showing copy and paste oddities and
> weird text behavior on selection:
>
> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/copy-paste.mov>
>
> It is not like such examples are hard to find - or are not
> obvious.
Oh, really? I just copied in FireFox, pasted in gedit, it works
fine. This is with Ubuntu 8.04 LTS and FireFox 3.0.5. Here it is
again, same text you highlighted:
[paste]
Prescott Computer Guy is a family run business located in Prescott,
Arizona. My wife, Anne, does most of the "behind the scenes" work and
I, Michael, get to do the fun part: working with the public and
playing with fun toys. Don't tell her, but I think I get the better
end of the deal!
[/paste]
Altered video wizardry? There is nothing wrong with Ubuntu copy and
paste.
>> I suppose you could say Gimp vs Photoshop however people
>> using either of those programs are most likely professionals
>> and will take the time to learn the differences if they need
>> to move between the two.
>
> It is not a question of learning the difference... no doubt
> people can use, for example, any of the different Save dialogs
> I show in my above links. Still leads to lost work,
> frustration, and lost time.
No, rather it is another example of Snit moving the goal posts,
creating problems that do not exist except for an invention of his own
mind.
[/quote]
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/4489dbf4844832e5
> And the more recent one showing copy and paste oddities and weird text
> behavior on selection:
>
> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/ubuntuCP.mov>
Spanky Da Measekite (Snit sock):
"<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/UbuntuCP.mov> Care to comment
or do you NOT understand the video?"
Alias: "Copying and pasting or cutting and pasting is a bit different
in Ubuntu. Note that the lamer who made this video didn't know that
you can select something and then just click the wheel on your mouse
and it will paste, something you can't do with Windows and is much
quicker than the lame Windows way in the video." 19 Apr 2009
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/9abb006c689c9e62
>> If you would like a Mac Office 2008 toolbar example, look at the
>> placement of Undo\Redo in Word, Excel and PowerPoint.
>
> Have them all... will look later. But even if all very different, that is
> not as bad as the examples I show, above. I can, however, agree that no OS
> (environment) is perfect. Even OS X, which is the gold standard in this
> area, has a ways to go.
>
>> All of these differences are very small and insignificant to most and to
>> paint Linux or FOSS to be any worse than the proprietary OS and app
>> options I think is a stretch.
>
> Look at the examples I show, above. There are many more.
122- Tommy: "In case you did not get it, I think the moral was: Stop
polluting the world with your infantile and obsessive "writings". You
give Mac advocacy a bad name. If that was your goal you have
succeeded! That also goes for all that bullshit on your website" 11
Jun 2004
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/03610d2080321d33
--
HPT
Megabyte
If you want more examples open a blank document in Pages, Numbers and
Keynote, then do a "Save as" in each, dialogue box in Pages is different
than the other two.
Open iCal in OS X 10.6.2, why are there two Help options on the menu
bar? This may be a bug rather than a UI problem as if Entourage is set
as the default Calendar two help options appear on the menu bar in iCal
but if iCal is set as the default Calendar program only one Help appears
on the menu bar.
Check the About "Insert Program Name" for Mail, iPhoto, Pages and
iTunes, all different.
Why is the toolbar in iPhoto at the bottom of the screen when in most
other iapps the toolbar is at the top?
Why does Preferences -> General Tab allow you to set the default Email
Client in Mail and Safari allow you to set the default browser but iCal
does not have the option to set the default Calendar.
My point is simply that you can find UI inconsistencies in OS X, Windows
or Linux. Are the inconsistencies listed above any better or worse than
those in another OS?
Snit
PM:
A book is not then either... it has multiple chapters.
> It is not just one tool but it can be many tools depending on what the
> operator wants from it. It can be a Tivo or a Data Warehouse or anything in
> between.
Just as swiss army knife has different tools. But it would be stupid to not
have some consistency between the tools.
> [deletia]
>
> A computer is a product that is meant to be altered by the consumer
> frequently and often. It doesn't really have a good analog in any other
> technology.
Who said it should not be altered. Also, keep in mind that there is
*massive* support for the idea that consistency and excellence in UI design
has a big difference for the user. Do you need to see it again?
Question for you: do you know why KDE was built? Just curious.
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
Snit
8:21 PM:
I did not resize anything... and since you have been told that and have
presented no evidence to the contrary, at this point you are just being
stupid.
>> Poorly done and Inconsistent dialogs:
>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS2.pdf>
>
> You moved and dragged the task bar, aligned vertical with the side of
> the screen. That is freedom and for you it is a problem? Buttons
> cut off by default? I did what you did by shrinking the window.
> FireFox shows ">>", which shows the remainder of that favourites
> toolbar menu, not as you show.
Again, more accusations by you. You are again being stupid.
>> Mouse pointers that do not do as they say:
>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS.mov>
>
> In this case, file window dialogue box did not stretch, but all text
> items are visible, fully functional. Windows XP does the same. This
> is okay for Microsoft software but not okay for Linux? Who are you
> kidding?
Where did I say what you attribute to me? Answer: nowhere. You are merely
being stupid.
>> Even Ubuntu has its share of quirks - though it is clearly
>> done much better:
>>
>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/ubuntu-menu.pdf>
>
> What is unusal about individual expression of how menus are set up in
> applications? I see the same thing with Windows software. Adobe's
> menu items differ from Corel's, differ from Ulead.
If you think so, then show it.
But you will not. You are too stupid.
>> And the more recent one showing copy and paste oddities and
>> weird text behavior on selection:
>>
>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/copy-paste.mov>
>>
>> It is not like such examples are hard to find - or are not
>> obvious.
>
> Oh, really? I just copied in FireFox, pasted in gedit, it works
> fine. This is with Ubuntu 8.04 LTS and FireFox 3.0.5. Here it is
> again, same text you highlighted:
>
> [paste]
> Prescott Computer Guy is a family run business located in Prescott,
> Arizona. My wife, Anne, does most of the "behind the scenes" work and
> I, Michael, get to do the fun part: working with the public and
> playing with fun toys. Don't tell her, but I think I get the better
> end of the deal!
> [/paste]
>
> Altered video wizardry? There is nothing wrong with Ubuntu copy and
> paste.
Again, you are just whining that you are too stupid to follow simple steps
you see in a video. You are just stupid.
>>> I suppose you could say Gimp vs Photoshop however people
>>> using either of those programs are most likely professionals
>>> and will take the time to learn the differences if they need
>>> to move between the two.
>>
>> It is not a question of learning the difference... no doubt
>> people can use, for example, any of the different Save dialogs
>> I show in my above links. Still leads to lost work,
>> frustration, and lost time.
>
> No, rather it is another example of Snit moving the goal posts,
> creating problems that do not exist except for an invention of his own
> mind.
> [/quote]
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/4489dbf4844832e5
Nope. You are just being stupid.
>> And the more recent one showing copy and paste oddities and weird text
>> behavior on selection:
>>
>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/ubuntuCP.mov>
>
> Spanky Da Measekite (Snit sock):
More accusations from you. You are being stupid.
> "<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/UbuntuCP.mov> Care to comment
> or do you NOT understand the video?"
>
> Alias: "Copying and pasting or cutting and pasting is a bit different
> in Ubuntu. Note that the lamer who made this video didn't know that
> you can select something and then just click the wheel on your mouse
> and it will paste, something you can't do with Windows and is much
> quicker than the lame Windows way in the video." 19 Apr 2009
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/9abb006c689c9e62
As you have been told, and are too stupid to understand, the problem has
nothing to do with Linux being different than Windows.
>>> If you would like a Mac Office 2008 toolbar example, look at the
>>> placement of Undo\Redo in Word, Excel and PowerPoint.
>>
>> Have them all... will look later. But even if all very different, that is
>> not as bad as the examples I show, above. I can, however, agree that no OS
>> (environment) is perfect. Even OS X, which is the gold standard in this
>> area, has a ways to go.
>>
>>> All of these differences are very small and insignificant to most and to
>>> paint Linux or FOSS to be any worse than the proprietary OS and app
>>> options I think is a stretch.
>>
>> Look at the examples I show, above. There are many more.
>
> 122- Tommy: "In case you did not get it, I think the moral was: Stop
> polluting the world with your infantile and obsessive "writings". You
> give Mac advocacy a bad name. If that was your goal you have
> succeeded! That also goes for all that bullshit on your website" 11
> Jun 2004
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/03610d2080321d33
>
> --
> HPT
Why do you go on and on and on about how stupid you are?
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
Snit
...
How so? I just checked and am not seeing it. All present a "sheet" with
the standard OS X dialog box.
> Open iCal in OS X 10.6.2, why are there two Help options on the menu
> bar?
Not sure what you mean? Help shows up once... and the items in the menu are
not doubled.
> This may be a bug rather than a UI problem as if Entourage is set
> as the default Calendar two help options appear on the menu bar in iCal
> but if iCal is set as the default Calendar program only one Help appears
> on the menu bar.
If that happens then, sure, it is a bug. OK. Never saw it myself, but I
suppose it could be. Any support for it?
> Check the About "Insert Program Name" for Mail, iPhoto, Pages and
> iTunes, all different.
All in the exact same place... as you note. Not pick the similar program
from PCLOS and tell me how to get to the comparable information. With all
of the OS X programs that you mention, going to the About info pops up a
window you close with the red X. What differences were you thinking of?
> Why is the toolbar in iPhoto at the bottom of the screen when in most
> other iapps the toolbar is at the top?
I do not know... and it also works differently than other toolbars, except
the one in iWeb, which works much the same. The one in iWeb, though,
stretches across the whole app, the one in iPhoto does not. That could be
based on the number of expected icons and the importance of the sidebar.
But it is a bit odd that the toolbars are at the bottom and are configured
differently then in other apps. At least off hand I cannot think of a
user-based reason to do this. Good catch.
> Why does Preferences -> General Tab allow you to set the default Email
> Client in Mail and Safari allow you to set the default browser but iCal
> does not have the option to set the default Calendar.
Frankly it would make more sense to have all of those set from System
Preferences.
> My point is simply that you can find UI inconsistencies in OS X, Windows
> or Linux. Are the inconsistencies listed above any better or worse than
> those in another OS?
First, I would like to see verification of some of yours, as noted... and on
at least one, you note is a bug. OK, we can agree to that - there are bugs
in OS X programs and in programs on other OSs (even if I have never seen the
bug you talk about - the principle is true, there are bugs). There are also
places where apps are just not designed with consistency in mind or where
developers are different for the sake of being different - and not just for
brand building or because they think they have a better way. So your
overall point of OS X not being perfect is accepted, even if I question some
of your specific examples. I appreciate your effort to point these out.
Which of the ones you point out, though, do you think come close to having
save dialogs from two programs that are much the same but with reversed Save
and Cancel buttons? Where on OS X do you find the About info not in the
place you pointed to? What common OS X program does not use Apple+P for
print and other common hot keys? What common OS X program uses different
wording for the common tasks of quitting (or saving or printing or
cut/copy/paste, etc... pick any common task).
What common OS X program has dialogs that get cut off by default? Buttons
that overlap? Print and Save dialogs without Print and Save buttons?
If your point is that even OS X, the gold standard of OS consistency, is
still very much flawed, then we agree. If your argument is that OS X is
*as* flawed as PCLOS (or Ubuntu... or any Linux desktop distro) or even as
flawed as Windows (which has been working to build consistency and is much
better than it was a few years ago), then we very much disagree.
Even with disagreement, though, I again appreciate you taking the time to
look for examples on OS X. There are some more glaring ones that I think
you missed - my pet peeve being the green dot. What the heck does it do?
Sometimes it maximizes / restores, as in Firefox, and sometimes it goes to
the "best size", as in Safari. Yet other times it shrinks the window down
to a tiny one, as in iTunes. Why not have regular click be "smart size" and
have option-click be maximize? Would that not make a lot more sense? With
the Dock - why is it that dragging an icon from it is irreversible? Such an
easy mistake to make and there is no undo? Same with the sidebar in the
Finder. And not even an option for a warning dialog on either. Is that not
a bit user-unfriendly... and inconsistent from what you see elsewhere?
In terms of just poor UI choices... what about the lack of ability to resize
from any side. Heck, again make this something for advanced users where you
need to hold an option key down... and with the growing number of dual
headed systems, does anyone think having a single menu only available on one
monitor is still the best way to go? At least have and option to show the
menu on both screens (though likely would not be hard to implement)
I do not generally talk about these things in COLA because COLA is not the
place to talk about OS X. I mention them now, and have done so in the past,
to show that I am not blind to UI problems even in OS X.
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
Hadron
1) Why are you talking about MS? No where has Snit stated that
inconcistency on an MS desktop is ok
2) You seem to be confused about what inconsistency across different
programs compiled for different DEs is and what changes between versions
of a single program are.
Hadron
According to Peter they do, and should do, very different things.
That aside since when you bring down a menu with a keyboard more often
than not the key to accelerate that entry is a letter in that word. Here
it might be Q on one program and E on another. Well done! This IS a good
example of inconsistency hampering the user.
Chris Ahlstrom
> Chris Ahlstrom posted the following about a book:
>
> In spite of the book's size, the rigorous use of styles
> facilitated by the LyX software yields visual consistency
> throughout the book. Because LyX is a front end to the LaTeX
> typesetting language, the typesetting of the book is
> exquisite. This is a very aesthetic and readable book.
Not to quibble, but I did not write that. I apparently quoted it from here:
http://www.troubleshooters.com/tpromag/200201/200201.htm
Let the circus continue without me, as Samuel "Snit" Johnson practices
the fine art of "conversation".
--
Suspicion always haunts the guilty mind.
-- Wm. Shakespeare
Hadron
> Megabyte wrote:
>> "Snit" wrote...
>>
>>> Ok, once again several people have mistakenly - likely even
>>> dishonestly - claimed that since I advocate for *more* choice this
>>> somehow, though nobody can say how, means I am *against* choice.
>
> [snip]
>
>> So when MS used different interfaces for applications within it's
>> Office 2007 suite those inconsistencies are problematic? Compare
>> Outlook 2007 and Word 2007, specifically the toolbar. Now look at
>> Office 2008 for the Mac and compare UI in Entourage with that for
>> Word. Even the toolbar layout in Pages and Keynote are laid out
>> slightly different. There are differences through out applications
>> and OS's, Linux is not alone in this.
>
> I agree. It is all a part of programmer discretion on menuing
> layouts.
There should be NO discretion for the key menu components. If you think
there should be then you really know NOTHING about why the widgets and
standards exist. It's as if a whole couple of decades of UI research
have just passed you by.
> Last time, Snit made a big deal of use of the word "quit" instead of
> "exit" as being confusing to the user along with other similar
> nonsense.
Didn't you read Peter's posts on them being totally different things and
how only an idiot would not understand that? It seems he was half way
right.
>
> Snit's opening statement is indicative of starting another circus, if
> like the others, dwells on insignificant issues made into major
> ones. In
UI inconsistency is not insignificant.
> illustrating his points often modifies and doctors up his exhibits on
> his website to suite his trolling agenda. Hence this is why most have
> him killfiled, and those who don't simply ignore him.
You are potentially the most clueless, dumbest poster ever to post to
COLA.
Snit
12/5/09 6:37 AM:
> Snit pulled this Usenet boner:
>
>> Chris Ahlstrom posted the following about a book:
>>
>> In spite of the book's size, the rigorous use of styles
>> facilitated by the LyX software yields visual consistency
>> throughout the book. Because LyX is a front end to the LaTeX
>> typesetting language, the typesetting of the book is
>> exquisite. This is a very aesthetic and readable book.
>
> Not to quibble, but I did not write that. I apparently quoted it from here:
>
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/tpromag/200201/200201.htm
My apologies for the error. Looking back at your initial post you made it
clear it was a quote - my mistake. Sorry about that. You did, however,
present it to COLA as a sign of the value of LyX... in part, the building of
consistency.
> Let the circus continue without me, as Samuel "Snit" Johnson practices
> the fine art of "conversation".
Huh?
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
Snit
6:27 AM:
>> So when MS used different interfaces for applications within it's Office
>> 2007 suite those inconsistencies are problematic? Compare Outlook 2007 and
>> Word 2007, specifically the toolbar. Now look at Office 2008 for the Mac
>> and compare UI in Entourage with that for Word. Even the toolbar layout in
>> Pages and Keynote are laid out slightly different. There are differences
>> through out applications and OS's, Linux is not alone in this.
>
> 1) Why are you talking about MS? No where has Snit stated that
> inconcistency on an MS desktop is ok
To the contrary, I have often called them out on their weaknesses. Same with
OS X. But I can see, if he did not know my history, where he might have
assumed I was saying Linux was not just worse in this area but unique. It
is not.
> 2) You seem to be confused about what inconsistency across different
> programs compiled for different DEs is and what changes between versions
> of a single program are.
I will say, though, he has been a *lot* more reasonable than many of the
Linux "advocates". A refreshing and welcome change.
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
High Plains Thumper
> High Plains Thumper stated:
Yes, you did and you have a history of forging data and displaying it
from your website. You also have a history of taking the same forged
data and re-editing it, to suite your current agenda, so no rewards
for you.
>>> Poorly done and Inconsistent dialogs:
>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS2.pdf>
>>
>> You moved and dragged the task bar, aligned vertical with the side of
>> the screen. That is freedom and for you it is a problem? Buttons
>> cut off by default? I did what you did by shrinking the window.
>> FireFox shows ">>", which shows the remainder of that favourites
>> toolbar menu, not as you show.
>
> Again, more accusations by you. You are again being stupid.
Look who is the accuser. You posted your nonsense, I commented on it
for what it was worth and you are offended about the truth.
>>> Mouse pointers that do not do as they say:
>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS.mov>
>>
>> In this case, file window dialogue box did not stretch, but all text
>> items are visible, fully functional. Windows XP does the same. This
>> is okay for Microsoft software but not okay for Linux? Who are you
>> kidding?
>
> Where did I say what you attribute to me? Answer: nowhere. You are merely
> being stupid.
Again, Snit, you posted a strawman movie claiming problems with Linux
that were not problems, but a stretch of the imagination as to what
constitutes a problem. There is no need to resize a window that
already fits the screen. This is how both Windows and Linux X-Server
operates. There is no stupidity involved, only comments from an
immature full grown man who does not know how to reply as a full grown
man.
>>> Even Ubuntu has its share of quirks - though it is clearly
>>> done much better:
>>>
>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/ubuntu-menu.pdf>
>>
>> What is unusual about individual expression of how menus are set up in
>> applications? I see the same thing with Windows software. Adobe's
>> menu items differ from Corel's, differ from Ulead.
>
> If you think so, then show it.
>
> But you will not. You are too stupid.
There is nothing to show. I have no need to engage in strawman
graphic aides to illustrate my discussion points. But you insist in
calling those who show counter arguments as being "stupid", which is
as childish as one can get.
>>> And the more recent one showing copy and paste oddities and
>>> weird text behavior on selection:
>>>
>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/copy-paste.mov>
>>>
>>> It is not like such examples are hard to find - or are not
>>> obvious.
>>
>> Oh, really? I just copied in FireFox, pasted in gedit, it works
>> fine. This is with Ubuntu 8.04 LTS and FireFox 3.0.5. Here it is
>> again, same text you highlighted:
>>
>> [paste]
>> Prescott Computer Guy is a family run business located in Prescott,
>> Arizona. My wife, Anne, does most of the "behind the scenes" work and
>> I, Michael, get to do the fun part: working with the public and
>> playing with fun toys. Don't tell her, but I think I get the better
>> end of the deal!
>> [/paste]
>>
>> Altered video wizardry? There is nothing wrong with Ubuntu copy and
>> paste.
>
> Again, you are just whining that you are too stupid to follow simple steps
> you see in a video. You are just stupid.
Why do I want to follow your so-called instructions, when I just
explained to you that I have no problems with copying and pasting in
Linux? I understand little idiosyncrasies with how the X-Server works
and those minute idiosyncrasies are not problems for me. All systems
have their little nuances on how they accomplish the task and with a
carefully thought out reason for it. I use both Linux and Windows and
can move freely between the two. There are no problems. Do these
problems bother you so much that your obsession with them needs
psychological help to overcome anger management problems?
If you really think they are problems, why don't you submit an
enhancement request or bug report to the X-Server designers, so they
can consider them?
>>>> I suppose you could say Gimp vs Photoshop however people
>>>> using either of those programs are most likely professionals
>>>> and will take the time to learn the differences if they need
>>>> to move between the two.
>>>
>>> It is not a question of learning the difference... no doubt
>>> people can use, for example, any of the different Save dialogs
>>> I show in my above links. Still leads to lost work,
>>> frustration, and lost time.
>>
>> No, rather it is another example of Snit moving the goal posts,
>> creating problems that do not exist except for an invention of his own
>> mind.
>> [/quote]
>
>> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/4489dbf4844...
>
> Nope. You are just being stupid.
Why is it that all all posters including trolls come away with similar
conclusions about you, no matter whether it is a Mac, Windows or Linux
advocacy forum? "Please go away, find another group to post your
agenda?" "I have Snit killfiled, why don't you also?" "LOL! Snit is
at it again!" "Look at who is whining!" "Please, stop the crap
posts!" (and ad nauseum).
>>> And the more recent one showing copy and paste oddities and weird text
>>> behavior on selection:
>>>
>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/ubuntuCP.mov>
>>
>> Spanky Da Measekite (Snit sock):
>
> More accusations from you. You are being stupid.
No, that was only one poster commenting on your strawman graphic aide
from your website. Others had similar comments.
>> "<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/UbuntuCP.mov> Care to comment
>> or do you NOT understand the video?"
>>
>> Alias: "Copying and pasting or cutting and pasting is a bit different
>> in Ubuntu. Note that the lamer who made this video didn't know that
>> you can select something and then just click the wheel on your mouse
>> and it will paste, something you can't do with Windows and is much
>> quicker than the lame Windows way in the video." 19 Apr 2009
>>
>> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/9abb006c689...
>
> As you have been told, and are too stupid to understand, the problem has
> nothing to do with Linux being different than Windows.
When are you going to realise that people could care less about your
point of view, because it is so strange, so foreign to those of us who
use Linux without the problems or concerns you describe?
>>>> All of these differences are very small and insignificant to most and to
>>>> paint Linux or FOSS to be any worse than the proprietary OS and app
>>>> options I think is a stretch.
>>>
>>> Look at the examples I show, above. There are many more.
>>
>> 122- Tommy: "In case you did not get it, I think the moral was: Stop
>> polluting the world with your infantile and obsessive "writings". You
>> give Mac advocacy a bad name. If that was your goal you have
>> succeeded! That also goes for all that bullshit on your website" 11
>> Jun 2004
>>
>> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/03610d208032...
>
> Why do you go on and on and on about how stupid you are?
Why do you ignore what others have been trying to tell you all along
during the past 5 years or so you have been posting in Usenet as
Snit? You have already established a consistent history of
nymshifting with socks to support you, forging data and posting as the
truth from your website, ad hominem attacking posters with ignores and
snippage to and of their replies to your posts that increase with
intensity with their replies?
You are the one who seriously needs counselling.
--
HPT
Hadron
Snit
9:03 AM:
>>> I did not resize anything... and since you have been told that and have
>>> presented no evidence to the contrary, at this point you are just being
>>> stupid.
>>
>> Yes, you did and you have a history of forging data and displaying it
>> from your website. You also have a history of taking the same forged
>> data and re-editing it, to suite your current agenda, so no rewards
>> for you.
>
> You are a liar. And a boring one at that.
No doubt.
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
Snit
8:42 AM:
...
>>>> Poorly done dialogs:
>>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS.pdf>
>>>
>>> Dialogs cut off? �There is a slider bar at the bottom, and one can
>>> resize the dialogue box. �Looks like you resized the dialogue box to
>>> suit your anti-Linux agenda.
>>
>> I did not resize anything... and since you have been told that and have
>> presented no evidence to the contrary, at this point you are just being
>> stupid.
>
> Yes, you did
Nope. You are simply wrong. I know you will never admit to it, but you
will also offer *zero* support for your accusation. Not a shred. Not a
hint.
What your accusation shows, though, is you know that if what I show is
accurate - and it is - it speaks poorly for desktop Linux. You know I am
right.
...
>
>>>> Poorly done and Inconsistent dialogs:
>>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS2.pdf>
>>>
>>> You moved and dragged the task bar, aligned vertical with the side of
>>> the screen. �That is freedom and for you it is a problem? � Buttons
>>> cut off by default? �I did what you did by shrinking the window.
>>> FireFox shows ">>", which shows the remainder of that favourites
>>> toolbar menu, not as you show.
>>
>> Again, more accusations by you. �You are again being stupid.
>
> Look who is the accuser. You posted your nonsense, I commented on it
> for what it was worth and you are offended about the truth.
You are making stupid accusations. I am calling you on it. Whine all you
want. Keep in mind, though, you are proving that what I show is not
acceptable, even to you.
You are saying desktop Linux is not acceptable. See: you were too stupid to
realize that.
>>>> Mouse pointers that do not do as they say:
>>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS.mov>
>>>
>>> In this case, file window dialogue box did not stretch, but all text
>>> items are visible, fully functional. �Windows XP does the same. �This
>>> is okay for Microsoft software but not okay for Linux? �Who are you
>>> kidding?
>>
>> Where did I say what you attribute to me? �Answer: nowhere. �You are merely
>> being stupid.
>
> Again, Snit, you posted a strawman movie claiming problems with Linux
> that were not problems, but a stretch of the imagination as to what
> constitutes a problem.
First: you dodged the question. This shows you know you falsely attributed
claims to me.
Second: you are lying. Period.
> There is no need to resize a window that already fits the screen. This is how
> both Windows and Linux X-Server operates. There is no stupidity involved,
> only comments from an immature full grown man who does not know how to reply
> as a full grown man.
You are the only one who is talking about resizing a window. You know what
I show is not acceptable, so you make up stories to try to excuse desktop
Linux. Amazing.
>>>> Even Ubuntu has its share of quirks - though it is clearly
>>>> done much better:
>>>>
>>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/ubuntu-menu.pdf>
>>>
>>> What is unusual about individual expression of how menus are set up in
>>> applications? �I see the same thing with Windows software. �Adobe's
>>> menu items differ from Corel's, differ from Ulead.
>>
>> If you think so, then show it.
>>
>> But you will not. �You are too stupid.
>
> There is nothing to show.
Right - because you are a liar.
> I have no need to engage in strawman graphic aides to illustrate my discussion
> points. But you insist in calling those who show counter arguments as being
> "stupid", which is as childish as one can get.
I do not call people who counter my claims "stupid". I call stupid liars
such as yourself stupid. And liars. And you are.
>>>> And the more recent one showing copy and paste oddities and
>>>> weird text behavior on selection:
>>>>
>>>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/copy-paste.mov>
>>>>
>>>> It is not like such examples are hard to find - or are not
>>>> obvious.
>>>
>>> Oh, really? �I just copied in FireFox, pasted in gedit, it works
>>> fine. �This is with Ubuntu 8.04 LTS and FireFox 3.0.5. �Here it is
>>> again, same text you highlighted:
>>>
>>> [paste]
>>> Prescott Computer Guy is a family run business located in Prescott,
>>> Arizona. My wife, Anne, does most of the "behind the scenes" work and
>>> I, Michael, get to do the fun part: working with the public and
>>> playing with fun toys. Don't tell her, but I think I get the better
>>> end of the deal!
>>> [/paste]
>>>
>>> Altered video wizardry? �There is nothing wrong with Ubuntu copy and
>>> paste.
>>
>> Again, you are just whining that you are too stupid to follow simple steps
>> you see in a video. �You are just stupid.
>
> Why do I want to follow your so-called instructions, when I just
> explained to you that I have no problems with copying and pasting in
> Linux?
You are the one who claimed you could not replicate the steps. If you want
to save face, now show that you can.
But you are too stupid to do so.
> I understand little idiosyncrasies with how the X-Server works
> and those minute idiosyncrasies are not problems for me.
Irrelevant to your lies about me.
> All systems have their little nuances on how they accomplish the task and with
> a carefully thought out reason for it. I use both Linux and Windows and can
> move freely between the two. There are no problems. Do these problems bother
> you so much that your obsession with them needs psychological help to overcome
> anger management problems?
See how you lash out.
> If you really think they are problems, why don't you submit an
> enhancement request or bug report to the X-Server designers, so they
> can consider them?
Who says I have not?
>>>>> I suppose you could say Gimp vs Photoshop however people
>>>>> using either of those programs are most likely professionals
>>>>> and will take the time to learn the differences if they need
>>>>> to move between the two.
>>>>
>>>> It is not a question of learning the difference... no doubt
>>>> people can use, for example, any of the different Save dialogs
>>>> I show in my above links. Still leads to lost work,
>>>> frustration, and lost time.
>>>
>>> No, rather it is another example of Snit moving the goal posts,
>>> creating problems that do not exist except for an invention of his own
>>> mind.
>>> [/quote]
>>
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/4489dbf4844...
>>
>> Nope. �You are just being stupid.
>
> Why is it that all all posters including trolls come away with similar
> conclusions about you, no matter whether it is a Mac, Windows or Linux
> advocacy forum? "Please go away, find another group to post your
> agenda?" "I have Snit killfiled, why don't you also?" "LOL! Snit is
> at it again!" "Look at who is whining!" "Please, stop the crap
> posts!" (and ad nauseum).
You claimed I moved goal posts. Now you are - away from your claim. Did
you think I was as stupid as you to not see that?
>>>> And the more recent one showing copy and paste oddities and weird text
>>>> behavior on selection:
>>>>
>>>> � � <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/ubuntuCP.mov>
>>>
>>> Spanky Da Measekite (Snit sock):
>>
>> More accusations from you. �You are being stupid.
>
> No, that was only one poster commenting on your strawman graphic aide
> from your website. Others had similar comments.
You made a stupid accusation. Deal with it.
>>> "<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/UbuntuCP.mov> �Care to comment
>>> or do you NOT understand the video?"
>>>
>>> Alias: "Copying and pasting or cutting and pasting is a bit different
>>> in Ubuntu. Note that the lamer who made this video didn't know that
>>> you can select something and then just click the wheel on your mouse
>>> and it will paste, something you can't do with Windows and is much
>>> quicker than the lame Windows way in the video." �19 Apr 2009
>>>
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/9abb006c689...
>>
>> As you have been told, and are too stupid to understand, the problem has
>> nothing to do with Linux being different than Windows.
>
> When are you going to realise that people could care less about your
> point of view, because it is so strange, so foreign to those of us who
> use Linux without the problems or concerns you describe?
At least you admit you do not understand. That is a step in the right
direction for you!
>>>>> All of these differences are very small and insignificant to most and to
>>>>> paint Linux or FOSS to be any worse than the proprietary OS and app
>>>>> options I think is a stretch.
>>>>
>>>> Look at the examples I show, above. �There are many more.
>>>
>>> 122- Tommy: "In case you did not get it, I think the moral was: Stop
>>> polluting the world with your infantile and obsessive "writings". You
>>> give Mac advocacy a bad name. If that was your goal you have
>>> succeeded! That also goes for all that bullshit on your website" �11
>>> Jun 2004
>>>
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/03610d208032...
>>
>> Why do you go on and on and on about how stupid you are?
>
> Why do you ignore what others have been trying to tell you all along
> during the past 5 years or so you have been posting in Usenet as
> Snit? You have already established a consistent history of
> nymshifting with socks to support you, forging data and posting as the
> truth from your website, ad hominem attacking posters with ignores and
> snippage to and of their replies to your posts that increase with
> intensity with their replies?
>
> You are the one who seriously needs counselling.
>
> --
> HPT
See: you are stupid. When faced with facts you do not like, you just spew
more lies. That is very, very stupid of you. And dishonest.
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
7
wrote on behalf of Half Wits from Micoshaft Appil Department of Marketing:
> Ok,
I thought you were doing doors the last time.
What happened? Did the door get slammed?
And now you are flip flopping into books?
Anyway I thought you were getting your rocks off
with doofi and his 30 day gay party. What happened?
Ran out of rocks?
Snit
10:23 AM:
I was hoping the "advocates" would do more than parody themselves.
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
Megabyte
Because if we are talking about UI consistency and harping on UI
problems in Linux, in a Linux Advocacy group, it is fair game to discuss
UI consistency in the other major OS's. In addition, indicating OS X is
the "gold standard" suggests it is superior to the others but in reality
it has it's own UI inconsistencies no different than Windows or Linux.
If Snit's argument that UI consistency is a good thing and all OS's and
applications should work toward it, I suspect everyone would agree. I
think where people have difficulties is with the implication that Linux
is some how inferior in this regard when in reality there are UI
inconsistencies in all of the major OS's and applications.
> 2) You seem to be confused about what inconsistency across different
> programs compiled for different DEs is and what changes between versions
> of a single program are.
>
How so? Office 2007 is a suite, should there not be consistency in the
UI among all applications in the suite or is using the Office 2003 UI
for Outlook 2007 acceptable when using an all new UI for Word 2007? MS
has fixed this in Office 2010 and a look at Outlook 2010 would tell you
it now looks like what Outlook 2007 should have looked like. The same
principles apply to Office 2008, iWork 2009 and OpenOffice.
Snit
>>> So when MS used different interfaces for applications within it's Office
>>> 2007 suite those inconsistencies are problematic? Compare Outlook 2007 and
>>> Word 2007, specifically the toolbar. Now look at Office 2008 for the Mac
>>> and compare UI in Entourage with that for Word. Even the toolbar layout in
>>> Pages and Keynote are laid out slightly different. There are differences
>>> through out applications and OS's, Linux is not alone in this.
>>>
>> 1) Why are you talking about MS? No where has Snit stated that inconcistency
>> on an MS desktop is ok
>>
> Because if we are talking about UI consistency and harping on UI problems in
> Linux, in a Linux Advocacy group, it is fair game to discuss UI consistency in
> the other major OS's. In addition, indicating OS X is the "gold standard"
> suggests it is superior to the others but in reality it has it's own UI
> inconsistencies no different than Windows or Linux.
I would love to have you show me where Save dialogs on common OS X programs
have their Save and Cancel switched... or where Save and Print dialogs lack
Save and Print buttons. How about a common OS X program which uses "exit"
and not "quit", or replaces some other common term such as copy and paste or
minimize or whatever with a synonym. How about programs which use
non-standard hot keys for print, save, copy, paste, cut, preferences,
minimize, hide, etc. There are some - and in those cases there are user
based reasons (Photoshop has some differences - but the programmers have
talked at length as to the reasons why - it is not arbitrary... even if I
find it annoying).
> If Snit's argument that UI consistency is a good thing and all OS's and
> applications should work toward it, I suspect everyone would agree.
Well, that is pretty much my point. I focus on Linux in COLA for reasons I
hope are obvious.
> I think where people have difficulties is with the implication that Linux is
> some how inferior in this regard when in reality there are UI inconsistencies
> in all of the major OS's and applications.
Yes: there are inconsistencies in all - for example you pointed out some for
OS X recently and I pointed out others. Even OS X, which is the best of the
breed, is far from perfect. And it does cause problems.
>> 2) You seem to be confused about what inconsistency across different programs
>> compiled for different DEs is and what changes between versions of a single
>> program are.
>
> How so? Office 2007 is a suite, should there not be consistency in the UI
> among all applications in the suite or is using the Office 2003 UI for Outlook
> 2007 acceptable when using an all new UI for Word 2007?
It is a user problem, though it is based on making a transition, not an
arbitrary difference with no real thought behind it. Such transitions are
understandable on any OS, even though they do, of course, have weaknesses.
> MS has fixed this in Office 2010 and a look at Outlook 2010 would tell you it
> now looks like what Outlook 2007 should have looked like.
Right: MS is getting better and better. With 2007 they were much better
than they had been in the past, and they continue to get better. I
understand things take time.
> The same principles apply to Office 2008, iWork 2009 and OpenOffice.
iWork has many UI weaknesses - somewhat resolved in the newest version but
still it is a bit of a UI mess for anyone who uses lots of features.
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
Tim Smith
Chris Ahlstrom <ahls...@launchmodem.com> wrote:
> Not to quibble, but I did not write that. I apparently quoted it from here:
>
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/tpromag/200201/200201.htm
>
> Let the circus continue without me, as Samuel "Snit" Johnson practices
> the fine art of "conversation".
Actual constructive conversation threatens to break out in COLA--no
wonder you want nothing to do with it.
--
--Tim Smith
Rick
> In article <hfdn7n$fmg$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Chris Ahlstrom <ahls...@launchmodem.com> wrote:
>> Not to quibble, but I did not write that. I apparently quoted it from
>> here:
>>
>> http://www.troubleshooters.com/tpromag/200201/200201.htm
>>
>> Let the circus continue without me, as Samuel "Snit" Johnson practices
>> the fine art of "conversation".
>
> Actual constructive conversation threatens to break out in COLA--
(snip)
Where?
--
Rick
Snit
12/5/09 3:43 PM:
Places other than your posts. Glad you see that.
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
Snit
reply_in_group-C6A...@news.supernews.com on 12/5/09 3:32 PM:
Well, his first comment was valid.
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
Gregory Shearman
Oh look, it's Hadron sniping at COLA advocates.
--
Regards,
Gregory.
Gentoo Linux - Penguin Power
High Plains Thumper
> Tim Smith wrote:
>> Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>
>>> Not to quibble, but I did not write that. I apparently quoted it
>>> from here:
>>>
>>> http://www.troubleshooters.com/tpromag/200201/200201.htm
>>>
>>> Let the circus continue without me, as Samuel "Snit" Johnson
>>> practices the fine art of "conversation".
>>
>> Actual constructive conversation threatens to break out in COLA--no
>> wonder you want nothing to do with it.
>
> Oh look, it's Hadron sniping at COLA advocates.
It is all our diminutive subatomic particle can do. Otherwise, he would
be spouting Linux advocacy, except it goes cross grain to the troll
papacy edicts.
--
HPT
Snit
on 12/5/09 10:42 PM:
Better than you who makes an idiot of himself and the compounds the problem
by whining about how all the unimpeachable proof is "forged".
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
Hadron
I actually am starting to believe that Ahlstrom is not a programmer or
SW Engineer of any kind. It is ludicrous that he seems to argue AGAINST
consistency in a UI.
Is he really a reverse troll?
Chris Ahlstrom
An amazing transformation, isn't it? I'm still waiting for Tim to pop up
with a "Liarsuck". As usual, Tim still dances around the exact wording, so
he can wriggle out when called on it.
Anyway, regardless of whether or not Snit makes a good point now and then
(all the best trolls do), it should be obvious after awhile that his main
goal is keeping the thread going. The ultimate result of engaging with Snit
is a lot of time wasted.
Does Tim really think the Snit Circus, fed by Rick, is a thing of value?
I don't. If Tim does, it is because he supports Snit's efforts to bog
conversation down in a mire of quibbling, nit-picking, leading questions,
allusive insult, effete ejaculations, shaky metaphors, and general vapor.
--
Q: What's buried in Grant's tomb?
A: A corpse.
High Plains Thumper
> High Plains Thumper stated:
>>> Tim Smith wrote:
>>>> Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Not to quibble, but I did not write that. I apparently quoted
>>>>> it from here:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.troubleshooters.com/tpromag/200201/200201.htm
>>>>>
>>>>> Let the circus continue without me, as Samuel "Snit" Johnson
>>>>> practices the fine art of "conversation".
>>>>
>>>> Actual constructive conversation threatens to break out in
>>>> COLA--no wonder you want nothing to do with it.
>>>
>>> Oh look, it's Hadron sniping at COLA advocates.
>>
>> It is all our diminutive subatomic particle can do. Otherwise,
>> he would be spouting Linux advocacy, except it goes cross grain
>> to the troll papacy edicts.
>
> Better than you who makes an idiot of himself and the compounds
> the problem by whining about how all the unimpeachable proof is
> "forged".
"Unimpeachable"? This is an example of:
[quote]
7.6 Trespasser Disinformation Tactics [...]
41. Use of Undefined Terminology. Use terms such as
"indoctrinated" as a substitute for "educated" or "experienced" when
referring to a Linux Advocate. Use "pedantic" in place of "correct",
"precise", or "accurate" when referring to a Linux Advocate. Create
and use personal definitions such as "commercial quality" for
impressive sounding terms to mislead the unwary. But never share your
definitions for your inappropriate terminology. This is commonly known
as Troll-speak.
[/quote]
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/
Regarding Snit's forged evidence and libellous ad hominem attacks:
Snit: "Heck, you can even post a few PDF files and blurry JPGs if you
really want to prove your case, right? :)"
Steve Mackay: "Hey, and you can modify multiple times, post them on
your site, and claim they are the 'originals'. Oh wait... You've done
that already. Wow... more accusations from you posted with -*gasp*-
absolutely no support. You do that a lot..."
Snit: "Oh, wait - you were just trolling."
Steve Mackay: "Naah. I leave that to the experts like you."
Snit: "Er? I have just shown you to be lying, above, and then you
make more baseless accusation. Well, then, as long as you are making
baseless accusation, you *are* a proven child molester. Keep in mind
that the baseless accusation game is the one *you* are pushing, so you
should have no problem with my referring to you as a 'proven child
molester'."
Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 18:26:06 -0700
Message-ID: <BF23EBBE.29362%SN...@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID>
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/87031a1655f235c2
Snit has already established a history of modifying evidence (forgery
creation) and posting it as the original, which is a form of lying.
Here is an example of such forgery, which Steve MacKay in his message
above was referring to:
[quote]
Welcome to yet another Digest from comp.sys.mac.advocacy. This time
the subject is Michael (Snit) who has bombarded the group with
incorrect information, which this digest aims to clear up.
The background
Michael is questioning the PDF of the screenshot of the mail that
Steve Mackay received from him which later was one of the evidence
that tied Michael to having created sigmond as a sock puppet.
Basically, Michael claims that the PDF has been altered, lets examine
that. The original of the PDF, as posted by Steve Mackay is on <http://
home.wi.rr.com/mackays/email.pdf>
[http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/
87a3b18aff5156e1]
From: Snit <snit-nos...@cableone.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 15:32:23 -0700
Subject: Re: Sandman Trolling FAQ
Message-id: <BD3E9B07.5BA3B%snit-nos...@cableone.net>
This is the first message where Michael claims to have dug up the old
PDF from his "backup drive". Note that the PDF, which is supposed to
be coming from Steve Mackay is on Michaels web space. He mentiones the
"unverified" part (see the sigmond FAQ for this part).
[http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/
d67cf7ab1c87b2d8]
From: Steve Mackay <steve_mac...@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 09:47:52 -0500
Subject: Re: Sandman Trolling FAQ
Message-id: <pan.2004.08.11.14.52.54.922...@hotmail.com>
Steve replies to that, and notes that Michaels version of "his" PDF is
larger then the original and is created on a Mac (Steve used a Windows
box to create the original).
[http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/
b6aa8feccd0cc7ca]
From: Snit <snit-nos...@cableone.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 07:53:20 -0700
Subject: Re: Sandman Trolling FAQ
Message-id: <BD3F80F0.5BC56%snit-nos...@cableone.net>
Michael asks Steve why *HE* changed the PDF, which of course he
didn't, the original is still on Steves server, the altered version is
on Michaels server.
[http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/
c9f66290f216ec98]
From: Steve Mackay <steve_mac...@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:54:03 GMT
Subject: Re: Sandman Trolling FAQ
Message-id: <pan.2004.08.11.16.04.00.141...@hotmail.com>
Steve replies and says he did no such thing and links to two
screenshots about the information of the two PDFs clearly displaying
that one is made by Internet Explorer for PC while the other is made
by OmniGraffle on a Mac. Steve also links to the web directory that
holds his files and point to the modification date which is June 13,
not August 10 like the one Michael has.
[http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/
748f0903ec603b5e]
From: Snit <snit-nos...@cableone.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 09:09:06 -0700
Subject: Re: Sandman Trolling FAQ
Message-id: <BD3F92B2.5BC82%snit-nos...@cableone.net>
Michael responds to say that he is concerned only with the
"unverified" part of the PDF, and whatever differences in the PDF
Steve might find is irrelevant. He claims it doesn't matter which one
Steve uses.
[http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/
868d83ee46de3522]
From: Snit <snit-nos...@cableone.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 09:26:11 -0700
Subject: Re: Sandman Trolling FAQ
Message-id: <BD3F96B3.5BC8B%snit-nos...@cableone.net>
Michael then posts to say that he has added both of Steves PDF's to
his site, but Steve hasn't had two PDFs, he has only had one, the
original. Michael still claims that Steve has altered the PDFs which
is what accounts for the change of size. Remember that the PDF with
the different size originally came from Michaels web space, not
Steves.
[http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/
d9951207db7341ba]
From: Steve Mackay <steve_mac...@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:53:19 -0500
Subject: Re: Sandman Trolling FAQ
Message-id: <pan.2004.08.11.19.58.21.63...@hotmail.com>
Steve replies by telling Michael that there isn't two versions of the
PDF coming from him. The one called "email.pdf" on Michaels web space
is the altered one and the one called "email-new.pdf" is in fact the
original one, from Steves site, now also on Michaels site.
[http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/
63e5ada930d5123f]
From: Snit <snit-nos...@cableone.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 13:34:56 -0700
Subject: Re: Sandman Trolling FAQ
Message-id: <BD3FD100.5BD2B%snit-nos...@cableone.net>
Michael claims that both PDFs came from Steve, when this just isn't
true. One of the PDFs is different from the one on Steves site. Steve
hasn't posted this modified version, Michael has. Michael still claims
he is focused on the word "unverified".
[http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/
96a71941fc15f562]
From: Steve Mackay <steve_mac...@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 00:01:04 GMT
Subject: Re: Sandman Trolling FAQ
Message-id: <pan.2004.08.12.00.02.53.563...@hotmail.com>
Steve now posts a small summary of the PDFs where he has saved the
two, by Michael, modified version of his original PDF on his site,
clearly stating them to be Michaels PDFs.
[http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/
9de058f951de1f98]
From: Snit <snit-nos...@cableone.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 18:44:57 -0700
Subject: Caught Steve Mackay in *another* big lie
Message-id: <BD4019A9.5BDB5%snit-nos...@cableone.net>
Now Michael posts a new thread, called "Caught Steve Mackay in
*another* big lie" where he claims that one of the PDFs on Steves site
is a forgery! The only problem is that it's -Michaels- version of the
PDF that is the forgery, the one Michael has been posting on his site!
He claims that the font for the IP number is different - in his own
PDF! The one Steve uploaded to his site to keep a copy of Michaels
alterations to the PDF. Note that this different font isn't visible in
the original version on Steves site.
Classic, Michael has done all the work to prove that he forged the PDF
to look edited.
[/quote]
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/c01aec2af89b8173
Thus, Snit does not have a leg to stand on, the burden of proof of his
lying and forging documents, presenting them as "proofs" is already
captured in Google Groups, establishing a history.
--
HPT
Snit
7:31 AM:
...
>> Better than you who makes an idiot of himself and the compounds
>> the problem by whining about how all the unimpeachable proof is
>> "forged".
>
> "Unimpeachable"?
Yes. Look it up. You repeatedly lie and call absolute solid proof "forged"
simply to run from your own incompetence. And, of course, when you do so
you are showing you are stupid and desperate. What part of this is too
complex for you to understand? Likely all if it - after all, you are
stupid.
...
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
Gregory Shearman
> Gregory Shearman pulled this Usenet boner:
>
>> On 2009-12-05, Tim Smith <reply_i...@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>>> In article <hfdn7n$fmg$1...@news.eternal-september.org>, Chris Ahlstrom
>>> <ahls...@launchmodem.com> wrote:
>>>> Not to quibble, but I did not write that. I apparently quoted it
>>>> from here:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.troubleshooters.com/tpromag/200201/200201.htm
>>>>
>>>> Let the circus continue without me, as Samuel "Snit" Johnson
>>>> practices the fine art of "conversation".
>>>
>>> Actual constructive conversation threatens to break out in COLA--no
>>> wonder you want nothing to do with it.
>>
>> Oh look, it's Hadron sniping at COLA advocates.
>
> An amazing transformation, isn't it? I'm still waiting for Tim to pop
> up with a "Liarsuck". As usual, Tim still dances around the exact
> wording, so he can wriggle out when called on it.
Yep. Tim (Hadron) Smith is the master of weasel words. His prowess in
sliming through the verbiage is now failing him as his transformation
into the IQT is almost complete.
> Anyway, regardless of whether or not Snit makes a good point now and then
> (all the best trolls do), it should be obvious after awhile that his main
> goal is keeping the thread going. The ultimate result of engaging with Snit
> is a lot of time wasted.
All trolls wish their threads to go on forever. The desire to capture a
COLA advocate in an endless circle of misunderstanding/correction is
very strong.
> Does Tim really think the Snit Circus, fed by Rick, is a thing of value?
Probably. Tim supports Hadron, doesn't he?
> I don't. If Tim does, it is because he supports Snit's efforts to bog
> conversation down in a mire of quibbling, nit-picking, leading questions,
> allusive insult, effete ejaculations, shaky metaphors, and general vapor.
You must watch the snit troll closer than me. I've kill-filed Snit and
Rick. If TomB keeps up the feeds I might drop him as well. Snit is a
waste of time.
Snit
12/6/09 6:33 PM:
>> I don't. If Tim does, it is because he supports Snit's efforts to bog
>> conversation down in a mire of quibbling, nit-picking, leading questions,
>> allusive insult, effete ejaculations, shaky metaphors, and general vapor.
>
> You must watch the snit troll closer than me. I've kill-filed Snit and
> Rick. If TomB keeps up the feeds I might drop him as well. Snit is a
> waste of time.
For folks who are afraid of truth, sure.
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
Chris Ahlstrom
At least TomB's feeding of Snit results in a bit more "discussion" than
Rick's feedings.
Even then, though, you can see Snit twisting words, as when Tom explained
that vim was available on all systems and worked the same on all systems,
and Snit then said something like "So that means vim is a
lowest-common-denominator application". Then he drifted off on "MacVim"
front-ends to vim as if they automatically added value over and above the
non-Mac GUI front-ends of vim. (If I mischaracterize Snit POV, sorry.)
--
Q: Why did the chicken cross the road?
A: To see his friend Gregory peck.
Q: Why did the chicken cross the playground?
A: To get to the other slide.
High Plains Thumper
> From: Snit <snit-nos...@cableone.net>
> Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 15:32:23 -0700
> Subject: Re: Sandman Trolling FAQ
>
> This is the first message where Michael claims to have dug up the old
> PDF from his "backup drive". Note that the PDF, which is supposed to
> be coming from Steve Mackay is on Michaels web space. He mentiones
> the "unverified" part (see the sigmond FAQ for this part).
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/d67cf7ab1c87b2d8
> Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 09:47:52 -0500
> Subject: Re: Sandman Trolling FAQ
>
> Steve replies to that, and notes that Michaels version of "his" PDF
> is larger then the original and is created on a Mac (Steve used a
> Windows box to create the original).
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/b6aa8feccd0cc7ca
> Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 07:53:20 -0700
> Subject: Re: Sandman Trolling FAQ
>
> Michael asks Steve why *HE* changed the PDF, which of course he
> didn't, the original is still on Steves server, the altered version
> is on Michaels server.
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/c9f66290f216ec98
> Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:54:03 GMT
> Subject: Re: Sandman Trolling FAQ
>
> Steve replies and says he did no such thing and links to two
> screenshots about the information of the two PDFs clearly displaying
> that one is made by Internet Explorer for PC while the other is made
> by OmniGraffle on a Mac. Steve also links to the web directory that
> holds his files and point to the modification date which is June 13,
> not August 10 like the one Michael has.
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/748f0903ec603b5e
> Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 09:09:06 -0700
> Subject: Re: Sandman Trolling FAQ
>
> Michael responds to say that he is concerned only with the
> Steve uses.
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/868d83ee46de3522
> Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 09:26:11 -0700
> Subject: Re: Sandman Trolling FAQ
>
> Michael then posts to say that he has added both of Steves PDF's to
> his site, but Steve hasn't had two PDFs, he has only had one, the
> original. Michael still claims that Steve has altered the PDFs which
> is what accounts for the change of size. Remember that the PDF with
> the different size originally came from Michaels web space, not
> Steves.
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/d9951207db7341ba
> Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:53:19 -0500
> Subject: Re: Sandman Trolling FAQ
>
> Steve replies by telling Michael that there isn't two versions of the
> PDF coming from him. The one called "email.pdf" on Michaels web
> space is the altered one and the one called "email-new.pdf" is in
> fact the original one, from Steves site, now also on Michaels site.
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/63e5ada930d5123f
> Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 13:34:56 -0700
> Subject: Re: Sandman Trolling FAQ
>
> Michael claims that both PDFs came from Steve, when this just isn't
> true. One of the PDFs is different from the one on Steves site. Steve
> hasn't posted this modified version, Michael has. Michael still
> claims he is focused on the word "unverified".
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/96a71941fc15f562
> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 00:01:04 GMT
> Subject: Re: Sandman Trolling FAQ
>
> Steve now posts a small summary of the PDFs where he has saved the
> two, by Michael, modified version of his original PDF on his site,
> clearly stating them to be Michaels PDFs.
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/9de058f951de1f98
> Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 18:44:57 -0700
> Subject: Caught Steve Mackay in *another* big lie
>
> Now Michael posts a new thread, called "Caught Steve Mackay in
> *another* big lie" where he claims that one of the PDFs on Steves
> site is a forgery! The only problem is that it's -Michaels- version
> of the PDF that is the forgery, the one Michael has been posting on
> his site! He claims that the font for the IP number is different - in
> his own PDF! The one Steve uploaded to his site to keep a copy of
> Michaels alterations to the PDF. Note that this different font isn't
> visible in the original version on Steves site.
>
> Classic, Michael has done all the work to prove that he forged the
> PDF to look edited.
> [/quote]
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/c01aec2af89b8173
>
> Thus, Snit does not have a leg to stand on, the burden of proof of
> his lying and forging documents, presenting them as "proofs" is
> already captured in Google Groups, establishing a history.
Oh, and I just wanted to add, now let us fast forward to 2009:
[QUOTE]
Steve Carroll wrote:
> Snit wrote:
>
>> * Steve Carroll forged text
>
> Hmmm... "forged"? Isn't that when you post using someone else's
> posting ID... like you have done multiple times on this ng (and
> probably many others)?
Snit still has yet to properly explain this, resorting instead to
deep snippages to remove fact, mangle quoting me and repeating Snit
garbage over and over and over. Following is just another example of
Snit's forgeries/strawman visual aids:
[quote]
Snit wrote: [...]
> Here are some of the inconsistencies (and other oddities) I have
> documented in a relatively recent versions of desktop Linux:
>
> From PCLOS:
>
> Poorly done menus <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS-menu.pdf>
Very nit picky, making a mountain out of a mole hill. "Exit" versus
"Quit"? You're kidding.
> Poorly done dialogs: <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS.pdf>
Dialogs cut off? There is a slider bar at the bottom, and one can
resize the dialogue box. Looks like you resized the dialogue box to
suit your anti-Linux agenda.
> Poorly done and Inconsistent dialogs:
> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS2.pdf>
You moved and dragged the task bar, aligned vertical with the side of
the screen. That is freedom and for you it is a problem? Buttons cut
off by default? I did what you did by shinking the window. FireFox
shows ">>", which shows the remainder of that favourites toolbar menu,
not as you show.
> Mouse pointers that do not do as they say:
> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/PCLOS.mov>
In this case, file window dialogue box did not stretch, but all text
items are visible, fully functional. Windows XP does the same. This is
okay for Microsoft software but not okay for Linux? Who are you kidding?
> Even Ubuntu has its share of quirks - though it is clearly done much
> better:
>
> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/ubuntu-menu.pdf>
What is unusal about individual expression of how menus are set up in
applications? I see the same thing with Windows software. Adobe's menu
items differ from Corel's, differ from Ulead.
> And the more recent one showing copy and paste oddities and weird
> text behavior on selection:
>
> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/copy-paste.mov>
>
> It is not like such examples are hard to find - or are not obvious.
Oh, really? I just copied in FireFox, pasted in gedit, it works fine.
This is with Ubuntu 8.04 LTS and FireFox 3.0.5. Here it is again, same
text you highlighted:
[paste]
Prescott Computer Guy is a family run business located in Prescott,
Arizona. My wife, Anne, does most of the "behind the scenes" work and I,
Michael, get to do the fun part: working with the public and playing
with fun toys. Don't tell her, but I think I get the better end of the deal!
[/paste]
Altered video wizardry? There is nothing wrong with Ubuntu copy and paste.
>> I suppose you could say Gimp vs Photoshop however people using
>> either of those programs are most likely professionals and will
>> take the time to learn the differences if they need to move between
>> the two.
>
> It is not a question of learning the difference... no doubt people
> can use, for example, any of the different Save dialogs I show in my
> above links. Still leads to lost work, frustration, and lost time.
No, rather it is another example of Snit moving the goal posts, creating
problems that do not exist except for an invention of his own mind.
[/quote] 29 Jan 2009
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/4489dbf4844832e5
[QUOTE]
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/4e0a197b09306808
That was 10 months ago, and Snit is still harping on the same.
--
HPT
chrisv
>Actual constructive conversation threatens to break out in COLA--no
>wonder you want nothing to do with it.
A stupid, clearly illogical, repetitious, already-debuked troll was
posted into COLA-no wonder Timmy Twit Troll wants to make it into a
circus. No wonder Timmy Twit Troll attacks the advocates who do not
want to participate in Shit's circus.
Snit
12/7/09 4:49 AM:
> Gregory Shearman pulled this Usenet boner:
>
>> On 2009-12-06, Chris Ahlstrom <ahls...@launchmodem.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't. If Tim does, it is because he supports Snit's efforts to bog
>>> conversation down in a mire of quibbling, nit-picking, leading questions,
>>> allusive insult, effete ejaculations, shaky metaphors, and general vapor.
>>
>> You must watch the snit troll closer than me. I've kill-filed Snit and
>> Rick. If TomB keeps up the feeds I might drop him as well. Snit is a
>> waste of time.
>
> At least TomB's feeding of Snit results in a bit more "discussion" than
> Rick's feedings.
Rick backs himself into a corner, contradicts himself, and then just starts
lying. It is absurd.
> Even then, though, you can see Snit twisting words, as when Tom explained
> that vim was available on all systems and worked the same on all systems,
> and Snit then said something like "So that means vim is a
> lowest-common-denominator application". Then he drifted off on "MacVim"
> front-ends to vim as if they automatically added value over and above the
> non-Mac GUI front-ends of vim. (If I mischaracterize Snit POV, sorry.)
I noted that if you have programs being exactly the same on all OSs, then
obviously the program is not taking advantage of OS specific benefits nor
working around OS specific weaknesses. The application has to be written to
the lowest common denominator. I do not see this, generally, as a good
thing. If you disagree, by all means explain your point of view.
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
Hadron
> Gregory Shearman pulled this Usenet boner:
>
>> On 2009-12-06, Chris Ahlstrom <ahls...@launchmodem.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't. If Tim does, it is because he supports Snit's efforts to bog
>>> conversation down in a mire of quibbling, nit-picking, leading questions,
>>> allusive insult, effete ejaculations, shaky metaphors, and general vapor.
>>
>> You must watch the snit troll closer than me. I've kill-filed Snit and
>> Rick. If TomB keeps up the feeds I might drop him as well. Snit is a
>> waste of time.
>
> At least TomB's feeding of Snit results in a bit more "discussion" than
> Rick's feedings.
Not really.
>
> Even then, though, you can see Snit twisting words, as when Tom explained
> that vim was available on all systems and worked the same on all systems,
> and Snit then said something like "So that means vim is a
> lowest-common-denominator application". Then he drifted off on "MacVim"
> front-ends to vim as if they automatically added value over and above the
> non-Mac GUI front-ends of vim. (If I mischaracterize Snit POV,
> sorry.)
So we can add you to the list of people who are seemingly clueless about
consistency across applications on the one desktop.
Specialised programmer apps like vim/emacs clearly are not included in
the apps which SHOULD act the same on a desktop. But general apps with
quit/print/ etc SHOULD use the same widgets and hot keys in general. It
is ludicrous to argue against this.
Snit
6:14 AM:
Look above for your harping.
You are not able to let your idiotic inability to follow simple copy and
paste steps you saw in a video go. You have been lashing out for months
over it.
I am the one who keeps telling you to let it go. Stop focusing on that
event when you were stupid... not like you do not have many more to pick
from!
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
Snit
9:58 AM:
Command line apps on OS X and Linux are likely to act much the same - OS X
*is* a UNIX and Linux is built to be UNIX-like. Still, even then there
might be differences - such as the programs being made to work with the
different rules on capitalization and perhaps the OS X programs being made
to handle OS X packages and resource forks.
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
JEDIDIAH
...except when they shouldn't or have one of Hadron's special exceptions.
--
In a "stable" but "inconsistent" system, the end user only |||
has to adapt once rather than needing to adapt any time a / | \
new version of the relevant shovelware is released.
Snit
AM:
>>> Even then, though, you can see Snit twisting words, as when Tom explained
>>> that vim was available on all systems and worked the same on all systems,
>>> and Snit then said something like "So that means vim is a
>>> lowest-common-denominator application". Then he drifted off on "MacVim"
>>> front-ends to vim as if they automatically added value over and above the
>>> non-Mac GUI front-ends of vim. (If I mischaracterize Snit POV,
>>> sorry.)
>>
>> So we can add you to the list of people who are seemingly clueless about
>> consistency across applications on the one desktop.
>>
>> Specialised programmer apps like vim/emacs clearly are not included in
>> the apps which SHOULD act the same on a desktop. But general apps with
>> quit/print/ etc SHOULD use the same widgets and hot keys in general. It
>> is ludicrous to argue against this.
>
> ...except when they shouldn't or have one of Hadron's special exceptions.
Huh?
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
Hadron
Sorry? What are you talking about?
Chris Ahlstrom
"Hadron"'s reply to me was totally a non sequitur. My comment was about
word-twisting re vim, and "Hadron" twists it into a comment about the
desktop, just so he can manufacture an insult.
"Hadron" is as devious as Snit, but, frankly, much more stupid.
--
The mind is its own place, and in itself
Can make a Heav'n of Hell, a Hell of Heav'n.
-- John Milton
Snit
12/7/09 12:20 PM:
>>> Specialised programmer apps like vim/emacs clearly are not included in
>>> the apps which SHOULD act the same on a desktop. But general apps with
>>> quit/print/ etc SHOULD use the same widgets and hot keys in general. It
>>> is ludicrous to argue against this.
>>
>> ...except when they shouldn't or have one of Hadron's special exceptions.
>
> "Hadron"'s reply to me was totally a non sequitur. My comment was about
> word-twisting re vim, and "Hadron" twists it into a comment about the
> desktop, just so he can manufacture an insult.
>
> "Hadron" is as devious as Snit, but, frankly, much more stupid.
But there was no word twisting, at least by me. I noted a fact: if you
design an app to work the same on multiple OSs, you clearly are not working
to take advantage of the OS specific benefits nor working around the OS
specific problems. In other words, you have to program to the lowest common
denominator.
Now, with OS X and Linux command line programs, they have a pretty similar
CL environment... and command lines generally do not have many "services"
they offer to programs.
Not sure why this would be controversial.
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
Hadron
Wrong.
> word-twisting re vim, and "Hadron" twists it into a comment about the
> desktop, just so he can manufacture an insult.
We were talking about deskstop consistency. Surely even you understood
that by now?
> "Hadron" is as devious as Snit, but, frankly, much more stupid.
There was no deviousness. There was you not being able to follow a
thread once more.
You really do seem to enjoy digging yourself deeper and deeper into the
COLA sewage bog don't you?
Hadron
Because he didn't read the thread, hasn't got a clue and will say
*anything* to get a pat from his fellow "advocates". I would have
thought you were aware of his sycophantic tendencies by now. it is also
worth noting that he didn't condemn the personal attacks on you and your
reputation when Willy and HPT started seeding google with your business
site etc. Hypocrites are done a disservice when compared with Liarsuck.
Snit
12:34 PM:
I wonder how he sleeps at night. If I acted like he did I would not be able
to.
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
High Plains Thumper
> High Plains Thumper stated:
>
>> problems that do not exist except for an invention of his own mind.
>> [/quote] 29 Jan 2009
>>
>> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/4489dbf4844832e5
>> [QUOTE]
>>
>> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/4e0a197b09306808
>>
>> That was 10 months ago, and Snit is still harping on the same.
>
> Look above for your harping.
>
> You are not able to let your idiotic inability to follow simple copy and
> paste steps you saw in a video go. You have been lashing out for months
> over it.
>
> I am the one who keeps telling you to let it go. Stop focusing on that
> event when you were stupid... not like you do not have many more to pick
> from!
Liar.
[quote]
Over the past couple months, Snit has been posting his moronic rant over
his UbuntuCP.mov file on his website, regarding alleged Linux GUI
problems. I several times showed proof of Snit's forgeries and strawman
graphics done previously, which Snit does his usual severe snippage and
insisting I provided no proof.
Here, I re-countered Snit's strawman graphic website aides:
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: HPT is a complete and utter failure.
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 08:48:11 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID:
<4b5168f1-9f14-471f-baaa-717b97c07...@a31g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/11c24e105c67b8f6
Then re-countered his nonsense with the same, which broke the camel's back:
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Ubuntu 9.10
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 13:51:37 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID:
<6085a7d3-7a12-4937-8d54-c74ceb1a7...@g23g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/56ae7537f4652974
Then Snit finally breaks down in anger and starts posting regurgitative
Snit snot, repeating my words AKA Snit repetitive isolated mangled quote
posts, a luser strategy:
1. Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Ubuntu 9.10
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 14:22:33 -0700
Message-ID: <C711F8A9.5149D%use...@gallopinginsanity.com>
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/8c2265c1027b4e1c
2. Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Ubuntu 9.10
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 17:50:44 -0700
Message-ID: <C7122974.5150E%use...@gallopinginsanity.com>
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/dad0a994f00d10ae
3. Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Ubuntu 9.10
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 20:58:40 -0700
Message-ID: <C7125580.5156D%use...@gallopinginsanity.com>
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/f3e31b0c929d5068
4. Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Ubuntu 9.10
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 21:05:10 -0700
Message-ID: <C7125706.51571%use...@gallopinginsanity.com>
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/c8c9cecece4c63ef
5. Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: HPT Proves, again, he is a loser
Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 22:17:42 -0700
Message-ID: <C7126806.5158B%use...@gallopinginsanity.com>
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/94d10d3737b0073c
6. Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Pathological Lies Quoter Latest Addition
Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2009 07:02:08 -0700
Message-ID: <C712E2F0.51665%use...@gallopinginsanity.com>
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/7897eaa10c35cd55
7. Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: OT: Tim Adams "very likely" licks doorknobs
Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2009 07:02:17 -0700
Message-ID: <C712E2F9.51666%use...@gallopinginsanity.com>
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/8b442c6440facc03
8. Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: "Snit" goes postal once more (was Linux "advocates" ...)
Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2009 07:13:10 -0700
Message-ID: <C712E586.51680%use...@gallopinginsanity.com>
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/3342c8b4c875035a
These are not the actions of a mentally balanced person, IMHO.
[/quote]
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/dd08f34e1635d174
--
HPT
Snit
6:10 PM:
> Snit wrote:
>> High Plains Thumper stated:
>>
>>> No, rather it is another example of Snit moving the goal posts, creating
>>> problems that do not exist except for an invention of his own mind.
>>> [/quote] 29 Jan 2009
>>>
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/4489dbf4844832e5
>>> [QUOTE]
>>>
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/4e0a197b09306808
>>>
>>> That was 10 months ago, and Snit is still harping on the same.
>>
>> Look above for your harping.
>>
>> You are not able to let your idiotic inability to follow simple copy and
>> paste steps you saw in a video go. You have been lashing out for months
>> over it.
>>
>> I am the one who keeps telling you to let it go. Stop focusing on that
>> event when you were stupid... not like you do not have many more to pick
>> from!
>
> Liar.
Are you now claiming you *can* follow the simple copy and paste steps shown
in this video?
<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/UbuntuCP.mov>
I bet not! You simply are too stupid to be able to. Remember, your other
BS lie about that video is it simply shows copy and paste working as it
should with the clipboard being lost on program close - but the video shows
that is not always the case.
In any case, you are clearly enraged by your stupidity - you keep lashing
out and lying about me. Heck, you even have been dredging up debates from
2004 to pander to Steve Carroll... and it is easy to show how stupid those
claims are, too:
<http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/forgery.mov>
Is there any debate where you can show any evidence you are right? I bet
not... not only are you almost always wrong, but if you happened to be right
you would be too stupid to support that!
That is right, HPT: you are stupid. Someone has to let you know... and you
will whine I am making an ad hominem attack because you have no idea what
the term means. Again, another sign of how stupid you are.
High Plains Thumper
> High Plains Thumper stated:
>> Snit wrote:
>>> High Plains Thumper stated:
>>>
>>>> No, rather it is another example of Snit moving the goal posts,
>>>> creating problems that do not exist except for an invention of
>>>> his own mind. [/quote] 29 Jan 2009
>>>>
>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/4489dbf4844832e5
>>>> [QUOTE]
>>>>
>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/4e0a197b09306808
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That was 10 months ago, and Snit is still harping on the same.
>>>
>>> Look above for your harping.
>>>
>>> You are not able to let your idiotic inability to follow simple
>>> copy and paste steps you saw in a video go. You have been
>>> lashing out for months over it.
>>>
>>> I am the one who keeps telling you to let it go. Stop focusing
>>> on that event when you were stupid... not like you do not have
>>> many more to pick from!
>>
>> Liar.
LOL, Snit snipped away my argument because it is too hot to handle. Psssst!
> Are you now claiming [snip]
that the Snit Circus of Pathological Lies continues? Yes. Now in its
third printing, alphabetised except for newest addition, here is what
these 132 posters have to say about Snit:
1- Adam Kesher: "Steve, IIRC Sandman's website has a member area and a
login. If you forget your password, you can ask it to e-mail it to you,
and a bot will send an e-mail. *That* is the e-mail Snit got from
Sandman's website, and yes he's that fucked in the head and starved for
attention that he'd claim it to be an e-mail from Sandman himself. So,
don't get sucked into his little circus. The e-mail, in this particular
instance, did probably originate from Sandman.net." 27 Feb 2007
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/dac74355552b4cc7
2- Alan Baker: "People's perceptions of you are *formed* by behaviour
and not withstanding your occasional on topic posts, I wish you'd leave
too. Please note that despite the amazing silliness that is Edwin, I
have never made the same wish of him." 27 Feb 2005
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/4a7c3ebf3fc10221
3- Andrew J. Brehm: "You are not flamed because you speak the truth, you
are flamed because you are a hideous troll and keep disrupting the
newsgroup."
4- AZ Nomad: "The fact that you routinely change your headers to weasel
out of killfiles proves that you're an asshole." 25 Jun 2007
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/51b43d6c9613c9da
5- Andy/news/nospam: "Why do you keep these things up, Snit? Why not
just let them go away and show how responsible a member of CSMA you are?
You could show your enemies up by being better than then, rise above the
low level you so obviously dislike. Anything, just stop...." 26 Apr 2007
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/d6ffb6b06aa237e5
6- B.B.: "Does the From: header contain the string "Snit"? If yes, then
troll. Otherwise, maybe. Dunno why I had my KF on you set to expire, but
it's fixed now." 13 Mar 2005
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/8a98d179b2ff9578
7- BaJoRi:
Snit: "You are, of course, lying."
BaJoRi: "No, I am not. You know it, and I know it, and everyone else who
has read your idiocy knows it. I took your statement, showed it to be
wrong, then added even more, just to be a dick and REALLY show you to be
a fool. You need to judiciously snip out pertinent points because you
are an intellectually dwarfed turd-burglar." 11 Nov 2008
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.vacation.las-vegas/msg/647944511b74b82f
8- bobinnv: "I learned some time ago how much better this group can be
if you kill file Snit. I have never understood why more people don't do
the same.." 5 Aug 2006
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/0706dbef8ce1f903
9- Bob S: "This has always been pretty much a free-for-all group, but
since Snit showed up, its become almost impossible to have a decent
discussion about anything." 27 Dec 2004
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/3d2f1dff196ca190
The solution is to NOT REPLY TO SNIT. But for some reason, some people
just can't stop feeding him."
10- �b� unny: Subject "snit makes me sad", Text "really actually =:-("
9 Oct 2004
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/4e31cb49c1e2d432
11- buzz off: "Snit is obviously mentally ill..."
12- Carlo Coggi: "He must believe he is surrounded by 'trolls' ... in
the groups he trolls in, that is. I wondered if the idiotrollers like
snit would reply to this thread. Of course, I didn't see his posts, only
your reply".
13- chrisv (cola): "No, she called him 'shit', and rightly so, for they
way he was so ignominiously birthed into a toilet at the bus depot, and
simply refused to die, despite repeated flushes. It's now far too late
to *flush* him, but we can still *plonk* him..." 12 Sep 2005
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/18099f8aa067f4a5
14- C Lund: "Snit is not my responsibility. Maybe it's time for you to
learn how to use your kill-filter. I am assuming, of course, that your
Usenet browser has a kill-filter." 5 Mar 2005
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/2c390a34b05b24a9
15- cc (COLA): "Snit posts all the time. You don't have to dig up months
old articles where he brings up years old topics. Just respond to a
current message." 22 Jan 2009
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/5a712e3312ba9f8a
Snit: "And, yes, I know the facts will go over your head. You are an
insane moron... and you have nothing of value to say. Here: you will
prove it with your response and I will merely note you did so. 100%
predictable."
cc: "What facts? The fact that you don't know what a hypothetical
situation is? The fact that you can't answer any questions? The fact
that you continue to run away when faced with simple questions? I am
100% predictable to you because you simply cannot understand what has
been placed in front of you. It's all just a jumble of words to your
pea-sized brain, and therefore it always looks the same." 15 Nov 2009
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/f6ce4429806e9de6
16- Code Orange: "Then why post it? What need is there for you to "win"
an argument? They don't like you, you don't like them. Why must you keep
this up? What results are you expecting?"
17- CozmicDebris: "I'm done with your three year old games. The archives
show my answers and your inability to process them. Keep posting your
list and proving that you are an idiot troll. I will not address it any
further- you being too stupid to realize and accept that is not my
problem". 22 Nov 2007
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.cellular.attws/msg/0aa65b7a132dbfe8
18- Dawg Tail: "You've already apologized for having already misread
what I had previously written. What makes you think that you're
correctly understanding what I'm writting now. You've got a history of
reading into things what you wanted people to have said instead of what
they really said.
I suggest you get over this limitation of yours. It's making you look
foolish."
Dawg Tail: "PC advocates, Mac advocates, Linux advocates. Almost all of
them are making similar claims about Snit. When you have so many diverse
people who share a common perception where do you think the problem
lies? With Snit? Or almost everyone else? The answer doesn't require an
advanced degree to figure out." 30 Dec 2004
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/73edac32c3ad530b
19- Dave Fritzinger: "[snip of stuff I really don't care to read] Snit,
please go away. Get a life, meet a woman, do something, but please,
please, please, GO AWAY!!!!" 2 Jun 2006
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/57bb2fc42ec0f290
20- Donald L McDaniel: "Jesus, snit. You're a teacher. I thought you
knew what a metaphor was, and could recognize one when it was presented
to you. I guess I had too much confidence in you." 30 Nov 2006
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/3254ec7af27bfb0f
21- ed: "snit, you continually amaze me with how much of a liar and
loser you are. you may notice a semi-regular pattern with me where i
stop responding to your posts for stretches at a time, then start up
responding as if you were a normal person. i suppose it's tough for the
magnitude of your 'loserdom' to stick, so it loses some of it's
sharpness when i stop responding to you. you almost always start
responding back in a semi normal way, but inevitably degenerate. it's
once again that time. i can only ask that you pass my condolences to
your wife and unborn child for having to put up with such a dishonest
fool as yourself. (well, if your wife is a loser as well, just pass
those condolences to the rug-rat to be; if not, double condolences to
her). " 30 Apr 2005
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/71f74dd6d806ce77
22- Edward Stanfield: "Snit thinks the rules that apply to honest and
honorable people apply to him. That is absurd. He is the biggest liar
in Usenet history. Mackay posted the email to prove Snit was using sock
puppets and he still is. Snit can not give up his socks puppets and
shills. They are the only ones who ever support him." 28 Jan 2009
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/5b52494d96d12229
23- Edwin: "You've got to be out of your mind, Snit. You're the worst
troll this group has ever seen. You're a liar and a forger, and you've
almost destroyed this group single-handedly. For you to post a list of
out of context arguments, and lies, and forgeries about your enemies
labled as a "peace effort" has to be one of the craziest stunts you've
pulled. It's all about your sick need for attention, your need to be
center stage at all times. You'd publicly eat dog turd if you thought it
would make people look at you." 18 May 2007
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/37e4a720619642a0
24- Elijah Baley: "Seriously, Snit, you need psychiatric help. Go see a
doctor." 24 Aug 2006
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/6f6c88356b54fc15
25- Elizabot v2.0.2: "I see you were unable to respond to the points in
my post and you are back to your repetitious regurgitation mode. How
childishly typical of you, Snit." 16 Nov 2004
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/55214ccfb7414fe5
26- Fa-groon: "I don't read Snit period. He's been killfiled since the
first day I posted here. [....] I don't want to 'do like Snit'. As far
as I'm concerned, Snit doesn't even exist." 15 Aug 2009
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/dcfbff305ba8b7f0
27- fibercut: "That is the problem. In the years I have been coming to
CSMA I have seen in the past year a real hatred among people, besides
the typical Mac vs. Windows typical argument. I feel that it is like
being in a room of really young children trying there best to best the
other person. The one common thing among all of this seems to be you. I
hate to be like this, but facts are facts. You seem to be in the middle
of a great percentage of arguments. CSMA has become less about Macs and
more about "look everybody, I think he lied". Is there no end then all
this picking at each other on such a personal level. CSMA has always
been al little adversarial but you have personally crank it up to the
point that this place is no longer fun. Congratulations on stopping CSMA
and making this place your own personal circus." 12 Jan 2006
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/bbe695bbc3424ab6
28- Geezer:
Snit: "Steve Carroll has no sense of morality"
Geezer: "Whined the guy who cannot directly address those who uncover
his lies and deceit;)"
Snit: "and no clue about the law."
Geezer: 'Said the guy who believes his unsupported opinions are "proof".
LOL! (snip more of Snit's unsupported lies)' 1 Jan 2009
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/d0517ced5134934d
29- Geoff M. Fitton (COLA): "The Prescott Computer Guy *still* showing
how stupid he is... What a mar00n". 30 Aug 2008
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/f9401b4b57c59865
30- George Graves: "Jason. You have started an argument with the Snit
(AKA Michael Glasser), this should not be done. He will drive you crazy
with his twisted logic, his deep-rooted need to be ALWAYS right at any
cost. He will move goalposts, set up strawmen, and bore you into
submission with his endless pedanticism. The only way to engage him is
to hit and run. NEVER engage him, it's a futile, empty procedure that
will only anger you and feed him. Take my advice and STAY AWAY!" 27
Oct 2004
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/3d3af33ce25a11fd
31- gimme_this_gimme_t...@yahoo.com: "Hitting the vodka tonight Snit?"
4 Mar 2007
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/b457a7b378264794
32- Greycloud: "You really shouldn't lie like that. Everyone else
notices that you are not honest and you have no honor." 21 Jan 2006
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/3b92f11a1ab00f91
33- H: "Your crappy posts are still showing up in seperate threads, are
you doing this on purpose to piss people off? I dont ever censor people
cause that's just retarded but if you dont fix it I'm gonna have to
cause I dont wanna see your name 40 times in a row. So uh, change your
client or something". 12 Sep 2004
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/f36ee6b458c86499
34- Hadron (COLA):
Snit: "Now why not end your silliness and either just stop your BS or
actually give reasoned comments on the screen shots you keep asking for
and I keep providing?
Hadron: "err, he just did. And you snipped it all you weasel." 30 Jan 2009
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/de49f2b7471d2e1a
Snit: "Sigh: 100% predictable, you will not answer *any* question I just
asked. You will run... your whole goal is to beg for attention, not to
make or support a point."
Hadron: "nice. You made it into my new killfile. Jesus, stop repeating
the same garbage." 6 Apr 2009
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/c86ab53a759ea728
35- Henry Flam: "Who gives a damn about this shit? Snit, once in a
while, I make the mistake in thinking that that you are starting to make
sense in your posts; I tend to agree with your politics. Then you post
stuff like this and it destroys any respect that I have for you." 16
Aug 2006
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/f048bedfe0d67d66
Henry Flam: "You on the other hand must a deeply trouble individual who
has a fragile ego. I needn't agree nor disagree with the points above. I
don't care about them. Your constant complaints, whines, rages, etc.,
wars with the regular Mac advocates, whom you mislabel as trolls, arise
from your sense that any conversation or thread must orbit around you.
People have pointed that out to you but you don't accept that. Snit I
feel sorry for you. Please go and see a doctor about your solipsism.
There must be a cure for you deep psychological travail." 18 Aug 2006
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/b9bb48e6e6da75c8
36- Heywood Mogroot: "*plonk*"
37- -hh: 'Perversion has utterly nothing to do with the definition of
"synonymous". It is, however, a very clear example of how you attempt
to maliciously debase against anyone who disagrees with you. As such, I
consider this to be a purposeful attempt by you to try to libel me.
This is your only warning to consider rescinding your remark, with the
reminder that you, and you alone are responsible for that accusation,
both in the ethical as well as the full legal meaning of the word
"responsible".' 25 Feb 2008
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/5496641a3426293a
38- High Plains Thumper: "I can understand why posters get sick and
tired of your lame ad hominem attacks, your cowardly statements shifting
the goal posts, your continuous rambling drivel of how everyone seems to
be against you. No one cares a wooden nickel about your incessant flame
wars that are self created. You pretend to be an advocate but you
manage to cause everyone's hand to be against you." 6 Jan 2009
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/b27ba196819ad38f
Only once in a blue moon does he have anything worth reading. I just
got through his circus of repetitive ad hominem crap. I am surprised
that with the stunts he has pulled in COLA and this newsgroup, that he
hasn't suffered a worse fate in real life. If he hasn't, one of these
days he will pull that stunt on the wrong person, and *B-O-O-M-!*,
someone will pull the trigger. One ought to really pity him (or as
Steve Travis stated, "Or perhaps we should set up a fund to get him more
happy glue (and the appropriate plastic bags)." 8 Jul 2009
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/2666237bba82b97a
39- Homer (COLA):
HPT: "Snit in a period of 2 minutes has copied a post of mine, posting
the same following message over and over, in false pretense as a Linux
advocate."
Homer: "That kind of behaviour is not normal, to say the least. I don't
mean this as a personal insult, but I'm perfectly serious when I say
'Snit' (Michael Glasser) is obviously mentally ill, and needs help. I
was going to suggest that someone alerts his wife to the problem, but I
have to assume she's already aware of his condition, if she is in fact
still living with him. It's possible, I suppose, that he's already
undergoing counselling and/or on medication, but if he is then it
doesn't seem to be helping much. Maybe he just missed his 'meds' today
(again, I mean that sincerely). 26 Jan 2009
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/e061874ea94e9ce8
40- hophead: "I have been reading and occasionally posting to CSMA for a
long time now, since 1995 at least. There have always been trolls and
morons, but I've never seen anything quite so disruptive as the Snit
circus. Snit will *never* back down or stop, and neither will most of
his opponents. A good kill file is your only hope." 20 Aug 2009
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/3161a78667e299eb
hophead: "It's best to killfile snit, and if you can, set up a filter to
kill any responses to snit. Or (as I've been forced to do) killfile
those who insist on responding to him. Yes, you do miss some advocacy
from some of those people, but the joy of not seeing snit or any
responses to him far outweighs the cost. Of course, snit also uses
sockpuppets. They are pretty easy to identify fortunately and are easily
killed as well." 19 Aug 2009
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/d0cb5d4f4d1cba91
41- Jamie Hart (cola): "It seems that since you are unable to offer
support for your statements, you're reduced to personal attacks on me.
Incidentally, anyone reading this post can see that I have offered no
straw men, and have only asked you to explain how the things you state
as facts can be true. I'm really sorry that you're taking this attitude,
the topic is an interesting one and I thought you might have some
insights. I've snipped the rest, since you dislike long posts and avoid
answering any of the questions I asked by saying everything was just
repeated." 6 Dec 2006
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/8e07cde31f4eecf6
42- Jason McNorton: "You're one of the many, many paranoid people on
usenet that should be confined most likely. You sit there and refresh
your screen endlessly. You post the same nonsense over and over. Either
you're a super troll, or you're a super mess." 1 Nov 2004
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/7a8e091c0b248eb0
43- JEDIDIAH (cola): "You're simply full of shit."
44- Jeff B.: "Yo, Snit. We're not pals. I think you're a git." 23 Dec 2005
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/0ec649345d433a2d
45- Jeff Hoppe: "This is a Macintosh Advocacy newsgroup. Not a 12-step
recovery plan. Your medical problems or conditions won't help me achieve
a greater understanding of my Mac. In fact, it detracts from it and
those kinds of discussions have no place in a newsgroup such as this."
18 Nov 2004
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/947a2cc0301a2862
46- Jesus: "Really, Snit. It's annoying. What are you accomplishing
besides being annoying? Is that your goal?" 25 Apr 2007
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/e3d5029d34cde243
47- Jim Lee Jr.: "Snit, read the thread's title, is Bush mentioned in
it? You (and Carroll) ought to learn to stay on topic and not hijack
threads."
48- Jim Polaski: "Why is it that nearly every thread you're involved in
seems like it turns into some tit-for-tat, dozens of responses to OT
things and garbage? Cmon there Snit. Someone has to take the lead and
stop this crap. Try. How about it?" 25 Apr 2006
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/5b5c22490ab9649b
49- Jim Richardson (cola): "And yet again, Snit runs away, rather than
actually provide evidence for his claims. Par for the course I suppose."
"Evasion noted. Snit runs away again rather than produce evidence for
his claims. At least come up with some original insults Snit! I mean,
you *are* capable of original thoughts! Right? Snit?" 8 Feb 2008
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/e33321cc3343fc44
50- Joey Jojo Junior Shabadoo: "and Snithead has even farther to fall -
in a few weeks he'll be out on the street after midnight, yelling at
passersby 'sucky sucky, $2...'" 23 Mar 2005
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/57cf69f66571a5a7
51- John C. Randolph: "You're nothing but a troll yourself. What are you
bitching about?"
52- JohnOfArc (cola): "I'm not sure "troll" does it justice- more like a
black hole! But hey, if we all promise to never again even entertain an
unkind thought re Apple, will you take it back and lock it up? Please??"
11 Mar 2005
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/e2891b1f3984e121
53- John Q. Public: "I have not been bothered to read Snit's postings
since I figured out who he is. I don't bother to filter his posts, I
just consider the source and skip to the next one when I see his name."
7 Jan 2004
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/7d34c1bd05c877d2
54- John Slade: "I don't get posts from Snit. I wouldn't be shocked that
he has some kind of disorder. He made up stuff about being a computer
repairman and teacher. He's just plain loony and best ignored. Let him
deal with his disorder by medication. He's here to do one thing, get
attention from people. He says the crazy stuff just to get a reaction.
You say you like to beat him over the head. Well that's what he's
counting on, he says stuff he knows isn't true in hopes to get a rise
out of people like you. Ignore him, you won't regret it." 3 Apr 2007
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/394a53a65c28d314
"Snit, you have a enough problems as it is without adding drinking booze
to the list. How the hell did you manage to get out of my killfile? Oh
well back into the cage you go, PLONK." 13 Oct 2007
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.food.wine/msg/992a796786a541d8
55- Josh McKee: "Snit, I assume there was some point to this posting?
Because I certainly cannot find it."
56- K E: "I haven't read this board for awhile but I see that even
though the trolls still roam free at least the worst troll of the lot is
mostly being ignored by readers on this bb. If the few stragglers that
keep replying to him would just stop responding to Snit at all this
place could be worth coming back to. There's a good chance he'll pack up
and take his trolling to more fertile ground." 22 Oct 2006
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/0b9dca7df1f677f4
57- KK: 'Whoa there, ad hominem man. You started off your sentence with
"Ah" like you'd just realized something profound.' 29 Oct 2008
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.howard-stern/msg/6a89029a5b5be5f8
58- Kelsey Bjarnason (cola): "Funny how you simply don't bother reading
the posts that rip your entire thesis to bleeding gobbets of putrid
excrescence. Maybe some day you'll learn how to support your position,
instead of sticking your fingers in your ears and humming, hoping it'll
all go away." 7 Mar 2006
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/96d064a7a5c6074a
59- Ku Karlovsky (cola): "You repeatedly chastise others for ad hominem
attacks while in the same sentence make your own ad hominem attacks. You
make silly claims and then avoid the subject of your silliness. You're a
liar and a hypocrite and you always have been." 14 Jul 2005
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/d1e3f9ac5c72c6ee
60- Lars Trager: "Yes, you are stupid." 7 Jan 2006
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/a9bedf6689f9a54f
61- Lefty Bigfoot: "Okay, I tried to put up with it for a long time, but
the few times you post something worth reading just aren't worth it
anymore. *plonk*" 16 Dec 2006
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/5520adae01120e83
62- Liam Slider (cola): "Maybe he's responding to the fact you've been
an annoying little fuckwit lately. You started out with the pretense of
trying to be fair, but lately all there is from you in COLA is trashtalk
about Linux and you acting every bit the troll." 16 Jul 2005
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/ad7d6c42c5e4cf2f
63-libcrushersmith: "Snit also thinks Dan Rather still anchors CBS News
and that Gitmo terrorists are innocent! Any time Snit is cornered, he
changes the subject and will never admit he's wrong." 28 Jan 2009
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/fbc516717f3b7ccf
64- libsnightmare:
Snit: "Who said Bush did not flip flop?"
libsnightmare: "Never said that. I put back in what you cut out. He
never flip-flopped on the war, even when it was unpopular, like "Kerry
and all the other libs" did. You're a sore loser who has resorted to
fifth grade tactics. How fucking sad - all this clown has left is to
edit posts and post fake bullshit. You can't debate... so you lie. Once
again, you have proved Steve Carroll right about you. Sad..." 4 May 2009
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/a80c93f80bd6bc3e
65- Linonut (cola): "Snit is a Tholenoid."
"Indeed. Snit may be the first retraction of my general killfile
amnesty. The volume of cavilling, whining, foot-stomping,
back-tracking, goal-post shifting, and petulance generated by that
effete candy-ass beggars belief". 30 Aug 2008
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/cc4827fd7e8ad574
66- Lloyd Parsons: "Well, I don't know if Oxford is the most cretinous,
I would think that would be reserved for Snit! ;-)" 18 Mar 2005
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/b6cd3ac4bf1e08d6
67- Mark Kent (cola): "The problem with someone like Mr Glasser is the
same as it is with Mr Wong, even if he were to be honest now, it would
be impossible to determine where the honesty starts and the usual
dishonesty ends. In my primary school, one of the teachers was very keen
on proverbs, and I recall her going over the "cry wolf" story. Mr
Glasser could "cry wolf" over and over now, and I would not come to help
him with his sheep, because I do not know any way of determining if he's
ever telling the truth, or indeed, if he ever has." 2 Dec 2006
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/3f30aa1b65a972b3
68- Mayor of R'lyeh: "The fact is that he's probably pulling it to this
post since its all about him and he managed to make me think about him
today. A friend of mine has a toddler. I went over to her house and
videotaped her kid doing a bunch of cute toddler stuff then burned a DVD
of it for her. While we were watching the DVD her kid got mad. He got
mad because we quit making him the center of attention and made that kid
on the tv the center of attention. He even ran up to the tv and tried to
block our view of it. That's how Snit lives his whole life." 30 Sep 2006
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/9935f4154d5a290b
69- Michelle Ronn: "The real topic here is that one someone refutes your
'facts', you run away and ignore them. Refuting your 'facts' is easily
done in this case. I did it, and you ignored it." 9 Feb 2007
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/c050c82720737b32
70- Mike: "Nonsense. I never see you "advocate" anything. All I see you
doing is engage in endless semantic arguments with everyone. You're the
TholenBot of CSMA. BTW, that's *not* a compliment!" 8 Jul 2006
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/7c5b72d70b87ffbd
71- Mike Dee: "I will no longer accuse you of lying here. Instead I can
only say that you are a complete and delusional kook that happens to
inhabit CSMA for the time being. That you are unaware of how deranged
you actually behave further reinforces this notion. Please seek
professional help."
"The point that keeps whooshing over your head Snit, is Elizabot made no
threat to you before you went to the police. She made a promise.
Admittedly, to your delusional spaced out paranoiac view point, Elizabot
was suddenly "threatening" to you. In so much as you had to take your
kooky self down to your local police shop and blub on their shoulders
about how much in danger you were in [sob, whine], and they had to waste
valuable policing time consoling you over your stupidity. I bet they
have Kook with a capital "K" written at the top of your profile, Snit."
2 Sep 2005
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/9cf45bc88a324f40
72- mmoore321: "Snit is a human car-accident and we are all
rubbernecking. We know it is bad form, but yet strangely curious. Treat
him the same way, look but just keep moving on." 18 Aug 2006
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/f1c3041d89504c07
73- Mojo: "Actually, these facts piss everybody off because they are
off-topic, unnecessarily confrontational, extremely boring and clearly
show that you are crying out for attention." 20 Sep 2006
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/a38f07b9a4811a80
74- Mr. Blonde: "Lastly, I can't help but comment on the fact that your
obsession with Sandman has actually grown since you claimed to KF him.
Killfilling someone generally implies you're ignoring that person, yet
you piggyback onto virtually every reply to him here and and check his
website's validation status more often than most people check their
e-mail. These are not the actions of a mentally balanced individual."
19 Jan 2007
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/2b005666ab303e2b
75- MR_ED_of_Course: "Seriously, spend half a day at any pre-school or
kindergarten and see if the kids there can't teach you a thing or two
about social behavior." 16 May 2004
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/55c03a6a0b7813a4
76- Muahman: "Ummm, dude you post 1000 posts a day. 999 of them are
trolls, if anyone here has issues it's not me." 24 Sep 2004
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/ad9daff74ee1e0bd
Muahman: "LOL, everyone hates Snit. I know I'd push him in front of a
bus if I could." 15 May 2007
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/e5ee46bf5bf04d00
Muahman: "Ahhhh shit, another thread lost to the Snit retard circus!!!
I actually dread seeing Snit reply to a thread because that
automatically means it's in the toilet." 8 Jul 2009
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/92e776d521dfa701
77- Nashton/Nasht0n: "Oh for crying out loud, if I wasn't convinced that
snit is a total loser, and I rarely call people losers, I certainly am
now. Why bother responding to his stupidities anyway?" 29 Nov 2004
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/be1a326a81441508
78- New Bee: "Honest and honorable? You? You've either got a wry sense
of humor, or you're completely nuts. Either way you're just a waste of
time, and you've done more than anybody to make this group a cesspool.
Then you revel in wallowing in your own filth." 14 May 2007
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/2856277b085d0274
79- Not Important: "I get this mental image of you and a sibling as
children in the back seat of the family car saying:
Mom, 'snits' touching me ... and you responding much as you do now ...
I'm not touching you, you're touching me! The problem is that by now you
should've grown out of that type of poke and complain interaction with
others. But, of course, you've haven't learned how to interact with
others in a more 'constructive' and mutually beneficial manner even
now." 03 Jul 2007
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/d16279e9003ca8f4
80- OldCSMAer: "What's he been doing? Am I going to be sorry I killfiled
him?" 27 Nov 2006
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/23b808d9646cd257
81- OldSage: "What drives me nuts is your unrelenting ability and desire
to argue on the head of a pin about the most trivial of things." 2 Oct 2007
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/88457f8e7c25273e
82- Oxford: "If you are using MT-Newswatcher: Select offending Author,
example Snit... Go to the Filters Menu, Choose 'Kill this Author'
Click 'OK' Then Repeat with each annoying Author of your choice. Then
to see your work... Choose the Filter Menu again, Then 'Refilter
Articles'... Bam! No more boring, pointless bickering about nothing.
Enjoy!!!!!" 14 Aug 2004
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/1d7f9181e95ed9ec
83- Patrick Nihill: "I mean, honestly, who would you rather discuss
something with; Dan, or someone like Zara? Or, for that matter, Snit,
for whom the work 'troll' seems so painfully inadequate?" 13 Aug 2006
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/f93db68e683ad769
84- Pawel Wojciak: "Jesus Christ, snit... <plonk> "
85- PC Guy: "Forget it Snit, you're a waste of time. For someone who
talks about everyone else not being "honest and honorable" you appear to
be the least honest and honorable of anyone here." 22 Apr 2007
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/36bf51df2a2662a4
86- Peter: "I've never felt the need to use the filters in Newswatcher
but I thought Id try the Kill this Author.. option with Snit. Ten
seconds later and he's gone! Amazing." 30 Dec 2004
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/011eef01d7bcd56c
87- Peter Bjorn Perlso: "Plonked for 60 days. Now stfu and take your
argument with sandman into the private room." 13 Dec 2006
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/ae4651ec99be3c77
88- Peter Hayes: "True, but that removes Snit completely, and someti...
err..... occasiona.... errrrr..... once in a blue moon he has something
useful to say."
89- Peter Jensen (cola): "Where has he ever said that they were not
different windowing environments? Message-ID, please. Experience has
told me not to trust you on anything without backing evidence."
90- Peter Kohlmann (cola): "Snot is a hideous troll. Nobody is as
dishonest as that piece of unadultered garbage. There are csma posters
even more stupid than Snot. Oxford comes to mind. There are certainly
other csma posters who lie nearly as much. But no others are so intent
on trolling in whatever way possible as Snot" 15 Mar 2006
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/3409d9582dcebd25
91- PeterBP: "Oh will you stfu".
92- Phil Earnhardt: "You're only interested in trying to get superficial
snipes and extrapolate inappropriate conclusions." 1 Nov 2004
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/ad24a97d5dc86277
93- Rapskat (cola): "For instance, your sig you reference a long
standing war you have going with some person from csma. It's like you
single out persons to target your attentions upon and then continuously
berate them with constant barbs and goads to perpetuate their
acrimonious responses, which in turn you respond in kind, etc. ad
infinitum. Above all things, your affinity for Macs and your overbearing
pompous nature aside, this is what convinces me that your primary
purpose for frequenting this and other groups is to troll." 07 Sep 2005
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/a09c6b8e3e63f42d
94- RichardK: "Just killfile him already."
95- Rick (cola): "Snit, you are a liar. And an ignorant one. You trash
people that are trying their level best to cope with a horrendous
situation. And you do it without the slightest idea of what is going
on." 06 Sep 2005
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/fcad2955ac5cb03b
96- Rick G.: "Just to be plain here, I have no doubt that he is a troll.
I am tolerant of his nature, not blind to it. However, as a troll, he is
... somewhat clumsy." 22 Mar 2005
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/198b88e3d0064a92
97- Robert F.: "Um, perhaps you misunderstand. I don't care if you quote
Mayor McCheese claiming the Earth is a flat plate perched on the shell
of a tortoise, I was merely pointing out that you run the risk of
looking ridiculous when you quote something patently stupid. If that's
your goal, you're on the right track, and more power to you." 11 Jan 2006
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/4dc22433eae8803d
98- RonB (COLA): "Snit is a crank fixated on one issue, who's thing is
twisting your words so he can win an argument against a straw man.
That's enough to killfile him." 1 Jan 2009
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.usenet.kooks/msg/ce8550d4cc5b1b42
99- Rotten Apple:
Snit: "The truth? Carroll has openly admitted he does what he accuses
others of... now there is evidence he is committing identity theft - the
very thing he accuses me of based on his claiming I am not the person he
has tracked me down to be."
Rotten Apple: "You make trolls like me look like choir boys." 14 Sep 2009
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/7a92988bcbce8fdb
Snit: "No need for him to worry - unlike him, I would not even threaten
to contact his wife. I simply will not sink to his level. I suspect
his wife will find out anyway - people are not as stupid as he wants
them to be."
Rotten Apple: "Your meds are really kicking your ass!" 15 Sep 2009
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/5e414c27d6357a4a
100- Roy Culley (cola): "You appear to be in the latter category.
Starting crossposted threads for the simple purpose of hoping to
generate a flame war. If you truly want to learn more about Linux and
how it can help you and your supposed users why aren't you requesting
help from a more technical Linux newsgroup than an advocacy group? As
the old saying goes, those who can do, those who can't teach. Your posts
seem to confirm that saying IMHO." 12 Mar 2005
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/d521a80051e24d08
101- S'mee (Keith, rec.motorcycles): "Liar...forger and worthless. You
must be related to our resident racist troll, he lies as much as you."
29 Dec 2008
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/ab08c00330c8b58d
102- Sandman: "He is by far the most killfiled person in the -HISTORY-
of csma. I've never seen someone so disliked, almost hated, in a news
group before. He has the ability to turn just about any person against
him in just a few posts. On usenet, trolls do this daily, but the funny
part with Michael is that I actually think he DOESN'T consider himself
be a troll - damn what -EVERYONE ELSE- is calling him. Obviously they
are wrong. Only Tholen himself can match this behaviour." 18 Mar 2005
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/51c0735c774215c2
103- sav: "You really need to take a rest somewhere nice. Honestly, even
the nutters who hang out down on Brighton seafront made more sense than
this. You been doing drugs or something?" 25 May 2006
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/1b251baa5c641370
104- Sean Burke: If you're dumb enough to respond to snit, you're
probably dumb enough to click on a spam attachment that promises to
remove smut from your harddrive." 21 Jan 2005
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/e166032d8959c0e1
105- Sermo Malifer (COLA):
Snit: "Why do so many people in COLA argue *against* me..."
Sermo Malifer: "Because you're a narcissistic troll who posts trash just
to get people talking about you." 21 Jan 2009
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/5ddf14f502e9b3f1
106- spike1: "The thought is probably to show everyone here just how bad
a troll snit is".
107- ShutterBugz: "so snit-zel has some kind of problem expressing
anger, i guess. he has to vent his frustrations in other ways. and he
thinks he's making sense: well the syntax is there and he figures he's
pretty smart. indeed, he tells us, he's done the personality tests and
the iq tests and he's okay! aaaaahhhhh, you see he's soooooooo well
adjusted." 3 Mar 2004
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/7f9fa1cf90490298
108- Steve Carroll: "The only things we are sure about Snit is that he has:
* a monumental reading comprehension problem.
* nym-shifted numerous times to avoid kill-files.
* built too many straw-men to count... some, the size of small cities.
* been labeled a disingenuous liar/troll(or worse) by the vast majority.
* used numerous sock-puppets and admitted to it.
* stolen IDs and admitted to it.
* gotten booted off by ISPs for his behavior.
* twisted more context than all csma posters combined.
* made more unsupported accusations than all csma posters combined.
* virtually no life outside of csma."
109- Steve Mackay: "Just killfile Snit, the dishonest piece of elephant
dung, and all would go away. Sure, I got caught up in the "Snit Circus",
but then the cotton candy began to sour, and CSMA begun to smell like
elephant dung." 18 Aug 2004
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/9fc11094133dfcdf
Welcome to the Snit circus, where the popcorn and cotton candy are
stale, and the smell of elephant dung is everywhere. 27 Dec 2004
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/614daf295b50413f
110- Steven de Mena: "Sorry, you have now lost all credibility with me
for your rediculous argument regarding this." 26 Sep 2006
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/1c8777d39c34e293
111- Steve Travis: "Oh oh... Now look what we've done. Snit has lost
all self respect and has sunk to the point of using words like 'asses'
when referring to others. Oh, how could the morally superior snit have
fallen so low.. Please take a moment out of your busy schedule to feel
embarassed for him. Or perhaps we should set up a fund to get him more
happy glue (and the appropriate plastic bags)." 27 Mar 2005
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/3edd9ab69425a6c5
112- Stuart Krivis: "You might as well just give up and plonk him then.
A snit is a snit is a snit and always will be." 15 Aug 2006 (post not
available except in reply)
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/5b382420a696f140
113- Tattoo Vampire (COLA): "In other words, in another attempt to
troll, you made yourself look like a fool. Again". 28 Aug 2008
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/b2676d3540e09f38
114- The Lost Packet (COLA): "well, he's found a seat in my killbin, I
can't be doing with him." 27 Jan 2009
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/2007526a552b3322
115- TheLetterK: "That is merely your perception, Shit. You're the one
lacking counter evidence, and your arguments basically amount to "I'm
right, nya nya nya." No matter how many examples someone points at to
demonstrate their claim, you blindly continue to insist that they
provide no evidence, or that the evidence given is irrelevant. Worse
still, you fall back on straw men and disingenuous quote mangling to
portray the argument in your favor. You are one of the worst trolls that
inhabit CSMA, Shit. *Edwin* is more prone to fits of reason than you
are." 23 Sep 2006
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/d488596b57132124
116- Thufir: "It's based on *your* MO that I, at least, have no problem
in stating that you're full of shit on nearly any topic. I've observed
your bullshit, and based on that pattern of bullshit, infer that you're
full of it. Your MO is the evidence, the logic is an inference based on
the evidence." 21 Aug 2008
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/c89d3cf79e806e5f
Thufir: "You can "prove" that no one has disproved your "proof"? Again,
your assertion that no one has done so is even *less* convincing than
your claim that some PDF "proves" whatever point you're trying to make
precisely because I'm familiar with your MO. That is, you're a dumb-ass
who would claim that that something is proved when it's not, and who
would ignore counter-examples disproving your contention. I don't know
what this *ages old* thread is about, but I know that you're full of
shit." 21 Aug 2008
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/5114623055c01092
117-Tim Adams: "I'd kill file you but then I'd miss the fun. you see,
you never cease to amaze me at just how stupid you really are. Why just
the other day I had a great laugh when I saw you, the king of liars (in
this NG anyway) calling somebody else a liar." 13 Nov 2004
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/40c7f9407179ff2a
118- Tim Crowley: "I don't know - I think you might have more
compassion. Snit is sick. He needs help. This is the only way the poor
sick fool can get attention. My fucking God, he's taken to hanging out
with and supporting racist pig fuckers like MuahMuah. It is true that
no-one likes him and those that pretend they do are just using him or
don't know him - but come on- it's not his fault. He's sick. Have some
compassion, eh? All these idiot trolls, Zara, Stew, Tommy,
MuaaaahMuaaah, and Snit - they are all so alike. I pity each and every
one of them" 19 Apr 2006
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/67f0f174110bfa0a
119- Tim Smith: "No, he didn't, and there is no reasonable way you could
actually believe he lied. You are purely trying to troll here." 14 Apr 2006
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/6e3cfd9240ac4871
120- Timberwoof: "*Plonk!*"
121- Tom Bates: "Do you have to turn any thread you post in into one of
your Circus acts?" 20 Feb 2006
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/25f0e481b605e71f
122- Tommy: "In case you did not get it, I think the moral was: Stop
polluting the world with your infantile and obsessive "writings". You
give Mac advocacy a bad name. If that was your goal you have succeeded!
That also goes for all that bullshit on your website" 11 Jun 2004
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/03610d2080321d33
123- TravelinMan: "I still can't figure out what's wrong with Snit. Most
people have him kill-filed and the few who don't mostly restrict their
responses to 'why don't you go away, no one wants you here'. Just what
would keep someone in this group with all of that animosity? Must be
some kind of severe mental illness." 17 Mar 2005
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/45197fbb46d491df
124- Wally: "Because by your own admission "honor and honesty" are
nothing more than a "game" to you, as such not only do you wish to
define the rules, but no doubt you will also attempt to alter or bend
the rules when inevitably things do not go to your liking, for this
reason I doubt anyone would be foolish enough to play your game." 16
May 2004
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/b9b3ed1ee20e5220
125- WhoMe: "F michael IS a teacher, it's no wonder he's home more than
he's anywhere near a classroom".
126- William Poaster: "Good grief. If anyone's having a mental breakdown
it's the Prescott Computer Guy, Michael Snit Glasser. What a f#cked up
mess he is." 29 Aug 2008
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/914d1e74855fb461
127- William R. Walsh: "Now, if you'll excuse me, and accept my sincere
apologies for this, PLONK! Feel proud about that. You're the first
person to be plonked from my new computer! :-) " 10 Feb 2005
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/313c7368f6369c49
128- Woofbert: "*Plonk*"
129- zara: "Look - I'm not into combing through thousands of posts, to
prove what was said or not said - I leave stuff like that to people
without lives, like Snit. But it is assuredly, in the record. Ping Snit
to do a search - you will flatter him, and give meaning to his tawdry
little life." 25 Oct 2006
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/a1d4fc7120a6a538
130- Zaren Ankleweed: "And with that, Snit goes in the global killfile.
No subject, no author, no nothing. Buh-bye". 11 Sep 2004
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/12f7c34f24d43624
131- Znu: "I think your 'I'll go start a new thread to try to draw more
people into the debate I'm currently having with Steve/Elizabot/etc'
tactic is fairly trollish."
132- Mutley (AUK):
Snit: "None are supportable. None are real. HPT made them up and is
scared to even try to support them. He knows he cannot. He knows his
lies are being shoved in his face and that people are laughing at his
failure. I know I am. He is a sad pathetic little man."
Mutley: "For the record ... I'll be done when I decide that there's more
shit on your face than there is on the sole of my shoe." 01 Nov 2009
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/1802ad3aa000098b
--
HPT
Snit
6:57 AM:
...
>>>> I am the one who keeps telling you to let it go. Stop focusing
>>>> on that event when you were stupid... not like you do not have
>>>> many more to pick from!
>>>
>>> Liar.
>
> LOL, Snit snipped away my argument because it is too hot to handle. Psssst!
>
>> Are you now claiming you *can* follow the simple copy and paste steps shown
>> in this video?
>>
>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/UbuntuCP.mov>
>>
>> I bet not!
And you ran from the question, HPT. As I predicted you would because you
are too stupid to be able to answer it.
Yes, HPT, you are stupid.
>> You simply are too stupid to be able to. Remember, your other BS lie about
>> that video is it simply shows copy and paste working as it should with the
>> clipboard being lost on program close - but the video shows that is not
>> always the case.
>>
>> In any case, you are clearly enraged by your stupidity - you keep lashing out
>> and lying about me. Heck, you even have been dredging up debates from 2004
>> to pander to Steve Carroll... and it is easy to show how stupid those claims
>> are, too:
>>
>> <http://tmp.gallopinginsanity.com/forgery.mov>
And no comment on the fact you claimed to be stupid enough to believe
Carroll and Sandman. Funny that, eh?
>> Is there any debate where you can show any evidence you are right? I bet
>> not... not only are you almost always wrong, but if you happened to be right
>> you would be too stupid to support that!
>>
>> That is right, HPT: you are stupid. Someone has to let you know... and you
>> will whine I am making an ad hominem attack because you have no idea what the
>> term means. Again, another sign of how stupid you are.
>
> that the Snit Circus of Pathological Lies continues?
Yet you cannot show a single word of the above to be a lie. That is because
it is not. Including the part where I note you are stupid.