Linux? I'm tired of being the oddball in the group. It's not worth it. Hello OSX.
Emmanuel Arias
at a major university. I am minoring in data systems which is a high
level program that is designed for people interested in entering the
information technology field as a management type instead of a
programmer. So anyway, I have been using Linux for the better part of
two years and I enjoy the freedom of using Linux. It hasn't always been
a walk in the park, but I have been able to find programs and work
arounds for most of the situations I have encounterd. One exception is
itunes and Rahpsody. I managed to get iTunes to work with wine but it
is extremely slow so I dual boot for those applications.
So now that I am a college freshman to be, I am encountering one
obstacle after another just because I use Linux. It seems that the
computing centers at virtually every single school I've applied to are
only supporting OSX and Windows, and only certain versions of Windows.
If that were just it I wouldn't have a problem but it is not that
simple. For the accounting program there are various items of software
that must be purchased and the textbooks and curriculum are based upon
that software.
In addition I have been told that I will receive many canned
spreadsheet programs that will only run under Excel.
While I can purchase all this stuff for very little money with my
student discount, I find it disheartening that Linux is not included.
When I asked the administration personal about Linux they handed me a
sheet of paper explaining why Linux is not supported. Neither is any
form of Windows 9x BTW and only certain levels of Windows 2000 and up.
Understand this did not just happen at one college but at several when
I attended their open houses.
To be honest maybe this is a good thing for me because I am discovering
that in leaving the sheltered world of a typical high school student
and starting to enter the real world (I hate that term!) it is quite
obvious that the world runs on Windows or Macintosh and Linux and Linux
support is almost impossible to find.
This has never been a problem for me when I lived in my own world but
now that I have to interface with others in an academic and
professional setting, Linux just isn't part of the system.
So now I am looking at a new G5 system because I can't stomach the
thought of using Windows.
Maybe I am copping out, but honestly I can't see myself having to jump
through hoops for the rest of my life just to use Linux.
It's just not worth the time and the effort and the consequences of
using a mostly orphan desktop operating system could effect my grades
and chances for internships.
Linux is just not worth it.
Emmanuel Arias
TheLetterK
> I'm a first year college student who is entering an accounting program
> at a major university. I am minoring in data systems which is a high
> level program that is designed for people interested in entering the
> information technology field as a management type instead of a
> programmer. So anyway, I have been using Linux for the better part of
> two years and I enjoy the freedom of using Linux. It hasn't always been
> a walk in the park, but I have been able to find programs and work
> arounds for most of the situations I have encounterd. One exception is
> itunes and Rahpsody. I managed to get iTunes to work with wine but it
> is extremely slow so I dual boot for those applications.
>
> So now that I am a college freshman to be, I am encountering one
> obstacle after another just because I use Linux. It seems that the
> computing centers at virtually every single school I've applied to are
> only supporting OSX and Windows, and only certain versions of Windows.
'We won't help you with Linux problems'.
>
> If that were just it I wouldn't have a problem but it is not that
> simple. For the accounting program there are various items of software
> that must be purchased and the textbooks and curriculum are based upon
> that software.
> In addition I have been told that I will receive many canned
> spreadsheet programs that will only run under Excel.
So buy Crossover Office, VMWare, or just dual boot with Windows. All of
them are certainly cheaper than a Mac.
>
> While I can purchase all this stuff for very little money with my
> student discount, I find it disheartening that Linux is not included.
> When I asked the administration personal about Linux they handed me a
> sheet of paper explaining why Linux is not supported. Neither is any
> form of Windows 9x BTW and only certain levels of Windows 2000 and up.
> Understand this did not just happen at one college but at several when
> I attended their open houses.
>
> To be honest maybe this is a good thing for me because I am discovering
> that in leaving the sheltered world of a typical high school student
> and starting to enter the real world (I hate that term!) it is quite
> obvious that the world runs on Windows or Macintosh and Linux and Linux
> support is almost impossible to find.
That's why you provide it for yourself.
>
> This has never been a problem for me when I lived in my own world but
> now that I have to interface with others in an academic and
> professional setting, Linux just isn't part of the system.
Works fine for me.
>
> So now I am looking at a new G5 system because I can't stomach the
> thought of using Windows.
> Maybe I am copping out, but honestly I can't see myself having to jump
> through hoops for the rest of my life just to use Linux.
Won't be 'the rest of your life', not even a decade. It'll get
progressively easier once Linux hits critical mass on the desktop (in
three years or so there should be more desktop Linux users than Mac
users, assuming the trend continues with any degree of accuracy).
>
> It's just not worth the time and the effort and the consequences of
> using a mostly orphan desktop operating system could effect my grades
> and chances for internships.
I don't see how it could effect your grades, or chance for an
internship. If anything, it would reflect highly upon your personal
convictions and dedication.
>
> Linux is just not worth it.
I disagree.
> Emmanuel Arias
>
Emmanuel Arias
TheLetterK ha escrito:
> So buy Crossover Office, VMWare, or just dual boot with Windows. All of
> them are certainly cheaper than a Mac.
I am very much against purchasing any Windows software. Like I have
already stated, I use Windows for only iTunes and Rahpsody.
Crossover Office is $75.00 and Vmware is about $200.00 and what
guarentee do I have that EVERY application I need to run will work?
I was already warned about Openoffice not running some of the
accounting departments tutorials correctly.
> I don't see how it could effect your grades, or chance for an
> internship. If anything, it would reflect highly upon your personal
> convictions and dedication.
See above.
I don't want to spend time tinkering to make things work, I need to
concentrate on learning accounting.
My computer is simply a tool that I use, not a lifetime passion.
> >
> > Linux is just not worth it.
> I disagree.
That's ok, but when my main goal is to learn my craft and my computer
is just a tool in that process, that tool should not get in the way.
>From what I am learning, Linux gets in the way in a big way in fact.
Linux is an oddball system that few know about, virtually nobody
supports and certainly isn't worth fussing over when I can move on to
OSX, at deep discounted student pricing.
My time IS worth something in all of this.
> > Emmanuel Arias
> >
Larry Qualig
"Emmanuel Arias" <emm_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1121130601.8...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
You made a couple of very valid points:
> My computer is simply a tool that I use, not a lifetime passion.
Emmanuel Arias
practice.
Fraudster?
I'm sorry, but I fail to see what you are attempting to say? You seem
to have a problem with reading comprehension, and maybe that is my
fault but English is my fourth language and I am a little rusty.
I'll ignore the rest of your sour message because people like you
thrive on attention and I will not be the one to fuel your sickness.
Houston CAPCOM
>> So now I am looking at a new G5 system because I can't stomach the
>> thought of using Windows.
>> Maybe I am copping out, but honestly I can't see myself having to jump
>> through hoops for the rest of my life just to use Linux.
> Won't be 'the rest of your life', not even a decade. It'll get
> progressively easier once Linux hits critical mass on the desktop (in
> three years or so there should be more desktop Linux users than Mac
> users, assuming the trend continues with any degree of accuracy).
>
How long has the Linux crowd been predicting critical mass on the
desktop? For the last 7 years its been "any time now." Linux is fine as
a server but as a desktop operating system it leaves a lot to be
desired. I agree with the OP - Linux on the desktop isn't worth the
aggravation. I tried to replace my PowerBook with a Sony laptop running
Linux. Tried SuSE 9.3 and Fedora Core 3. I even installed Solaris 10
(proprietary Unix, not a Linux) just for kicks, which I liked the best.
However, none can hold a candle to OS X for ease of use and general
productivity. Linux is fun as a geek toy and an enjoyable way to learn
Unix, but it takes a high level of computing skill to use it. There is
no way in hell that Joe Sixpack will ever want to run a Linux system.
TheLetterK
>
> TheLetterK ha escrito:
>
>>So buy Crossover Office, VMWare, or just dual boot with Windows. All of
>>them are certainly cheaper than a Mac.
>
>
> I am very much against purchasing any Windows software. Like I have
> already stated, I use Windows for only iTunes and Rahpsody.
> Crossover Office is $75.00 and Vmware is about $200.00 and what
> guarentee do I have that EVERY application I need to run will work?
iTunes. What else are you needing to run? And I will guarantee you
VMWare will run everything, since your running a genuine copy of Windows.
>
> I was already warned about Openoffice not running some of the
> accounting departments tutorials correctly.
Very possible. That's why I suggested Crossover Office. This is a
version of Wine specifically designed for 'pro' and 'business' apps.
They make it a point to make certain things like iTunes, Office,
Photoshop, etc run well.
>
>
>>I don't see how it could effect your grades, or chance for an
>>internship. If anything, it would reflect highly upon your personal
>>convictions and dedication.
>
>
> See above.
>
> I don't want to spend time tinkering to make things work, I need to
> concentrate on learning accounting.
> My computer is simply a tool that I use, not a lifetime passion.
>
>
>
>>>Linux is just not worth it.
>>
>>I disagree.
>
>
> That's ok, but when my main goal is to learn my craft and my computer
> is just a tool in that process, that tool should not get in the way.
>
>>From what I am learning, Linux gets in the way in a big way in fact.
> Linux is an oddball system that few know about, virtually nobody
> supports and certainly isn't worth fussing over when I can move on to
> OSX, at deep discounted student pricing.
Incorrect. Linux is becoming quite a force to be reckoned with on
business desktops. It'll grow increasingly more important as time goes on.
John Bailo
> So now that I am a college freshman to be, I am encountering one
> obstacle after another just because I use Linux.
Is it Linux...or the fact that you're still wearing T-Shirts from your high
school days with all the members of 98 degrees on them?
--
Texeme Textcasting Technology
http://www.texeme.com
TheLetterK
> On 2005-07-11 18:01:07 -0700, TheLetterK <thele...@spymac.nosppam.com>
> said:
>
>>> So now I am looking at a new G5 system because I can't stomach the
>>> thought of using Windows.
>>> Maybe I am copping out, but honestly I can't see myself having to jump
>>> through hoops for the rest of my life just to use Linux.
>>
>> Won't be 'the rest of your life', not even a decade. It'll get
>> progressively easier once Linux hits critical mass on the desktop (in
>> three years or so there should be more desktop Linux users than Mac
>> users, assuming the trend continues with any degree of accuracy).
>>
>
> How long has the Linux crowd been predicting critical mass on the
> desktop?
been predicting it for what seems like decades. Realists have been
predicting 2008-2009 for awhile now. Don't confuse Linux advocates that
actually examine the situation with Linux advocates who keep on
dreaming. Linux currently has approx 3.5% of the global desktop
marketshare. That's up from ~2% last year, while the total number of
desktops sold globally has gone up. It's also not taking into account
shared disks, or non-major distributions. If it keeps going at the rate
it has been, we should see Linux overtake Macs in about 3 years. At a
point well before then will be 'critical mass', and we may well see an
explosion of third party support.
> For the last 7 years its been "any time now."
I'm not saying 'any time now', I'm saying 'in *three years* it'll have a
larger userbase than *macs*'. That's a far cry from the 'next year we'll
see Linux with a 10% userbase' that's shouted so often by Linux idealists.
> Linux is fine as
> a server but as a desktop operating system it leaves a lot to be
> desired.
I disagree strongly. Of all the Unix-likes, it's most suited to use as a
Desktop. Ironically, it's one of the WORST production Unix-likes to be
considered as a server. It's only major problem right now is support,
not technical issues. From a technical standpoint, it blows Windows (and
arguably OS X, depending on Desktop Envionment) out of the water on the
desktop.
> I agree with the OP - Linux on the desktop isn't worth the
> aggravation. I tried to replace my PowerBook with a Sony laptop running
> Linux. Tried SuSE 9.3 and Fedora Core 3. I even installed Solaris 10
> (proprietary Unix, not a Linux) just for kicks, which I liked the best.
I wouldn't use SuSE or Fedora either. I'm a Debian user, through and
through (FreeBSD is my next choice, assuming the hardware is supported).
I'm well aware of Solaris, and it's not propriatary anymore (Solaris 10
is Opern Source).
> However, none can hold a candle to OS X for ease of use and general
> productivity.
I'm far more productive in GNOME/Debian than I am OS X. Been using Macs
for years now, and I still prefer GNU/Linux.
> Linux is fun as a geek toy and an enjoyable way to learn
> Unix, but it takes a high level of computing skill to use it.
It requires a different way of thinking, not 'immense computer skills'.
I'd wager someone totally new to computers could figure out one of the
newbie Linuxes as quickly as they would a Mac.
> There is
> no way in hell that Joe Sixpack will ever want to run a Linux system.
"640k ought to be enough to anyone"
Rick
(snip)
>
> Linux is just not worth it.
)snip)
Emmanuel Arias
Rick ha escrito:
> On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 17:13:09 -0700, Emmanuel Arias wrote:
> (snip)
> >
> > Linux is just not worth it.
> Maybe not for you. Stop whining. Deal with it.
> )snip)
But that is just my point, it's not just me.
It's THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of students entering college in the fall
who are going to be met with the Linux wall of rejection.
Linux users who sit at home and advocate Linux tooth and nail have no
idea what really happens in the real world.
To them, Linux looks great, and it is good, but the reality in the real
world is that virtually nobody is using Linux and by attempting to use
Linux you, the end user, are swimming upstream.
Tell me, why I should be a martyr in order to proclaim my use of Linux?
What is this going to do for my GPA?
When my Professor can't read my assignment?
When the Excel formula's don't work with OPenOffice?
Can I cry foul?
Of course not because the criteria for the curriculum specifically
states the requirements and Linux is not listed in there.
So tell me one good reason why I should put my GPA in the sling for
Linux?
EA
Emmanuel Arias
Rick ha escrito:
> On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 17:13:09 -0700, Emmanuel Arias wrote:
> (snip)
> >
> > Linux is just not worth it.
> Maybe not for you. Stop whining. Deal with it.
> )snip)
But that is just my point, it's not just me.
Emmanuel Arias
Rick ha escrito:
> On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 17:13:09 -0700, Emmanuel Arias wrote:
> (snip)
> >
> > Linux is just not worth it.
> Maybe not for you. Stop whining. Deal with it.
> )snip)
But that is just my point, it's not just me.
Liam Slider
> But that is just my point, it's not just me. It's THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS
> of students entering college in the fall who are going to be met with the
> Linux wall of rejection.
>
> Linux users who sit at home and advocate Linux tooth and nail have no idea
> what really happens in the real world. T
That's so cute....you think college is the "real world."
ELVIS2000
wrote:
>I'm a first year college student who is entering an accounting program
>at a major university.
OK, first of all -- you are in your first year. You can get out now
before committing to an Accounting curriculum. Don't listen to all
those people (your parents) telling you that you must learn a "skill"
in college. Unless you have strong interest in engineering, computer
science, etc... do something interesting. Major in history, fine
arts, history... something you can take with you the rest of your
life.
If, after actually spending your 4 years of college in pursuit of
noble endeavor, you still want the business world -- MBA schools love
people with a fine arts background. But then Accountants will be
working for you!
My degree? B.S. Accounting, and I don't remember a damn thing. Four
years of college wasted because my parents "demanded" I major in
something that would "get me job". Got my MBA a few years later and
I'm now a marketing manager for a major consumer products company.
Most of my peers majored in liberal arts, and those are the folks that
give the best presentations, write the best memos -- and usually wind
up in the upper management positions. Get out now!
ELVIS2000
wrote:
>I'm a first year college student who is entering an accounting program
>at a major university
Oh by the way -- your interest in Linux over Windows already tells me
you shoud avoid (and at all costs) Accounting. Otherwise, learn to
love Windows -- as all the professional accounting packages are
Windows only.
JW
ELVIS2000
wrote:
>Linux is an oddball system that few know about, virtually nobody
>supports and certainly isn't worth fussing over when I can move on to
>OSX, at deep discounted student pricing.
Not in Accounting, hot-shot! OSX is about as common as an interesting
personality in the accounting department.
JW
Emmanuel Arias
Liam Slider ha escrito:
In terms of my chosen discipline, accounting, no, I already realize and
have been told to forget 65 percent or more of what I learn in school.
However, as it relates to Linux, YES, college is the real world.
Do you have any idea how many college students are enrolling for class
in September 05?
Do you realize that 99 percent of them will be told, right up front, in
writing, what the requirements are for the particular area of study
they are involved in?
Do you realize that Microsoft and Apple are trumpeted all over campus?
Do you realize that Linux is dissed at every turn?
Telling the admin staff when you are registering for your school ID
that you use Linux is equivilant to letting them know you carry
typhoid......
I keep in touch with at least 20+ people I graduated high school with
and EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM has met with the same wall of obstruction
when it comes to Linux.
Not that they run Linux, but just that the official paperwork handed
out at orientation says NO LINUX.........
So now I am paying 20k a year for education and I am going to buck the
system and use Linux?
Why?
What good reason can any of you give me for doing such?
Why should I put up with websites that don't load using Linux browsers?
Spreadsheet programs and tutorials/assignments that will only work
properly with Excel?
No tech support from the campus information technology staff should I
have a problem connecting to the network?
Why should I even consider dealing with this?
I can get a G5 at a real attractive price and it works fine for my
classes and allows me to concentrate on my studies instead of spending
time worrying about how to make Linux work with the schools
requirements.
Even if I purchased a Windows system, why on earth would I wipe it
clean to use Linux and risk the very real possibility of not submitting
assignments in the required format?
Liam, you seem to advocate running games via Cedaga..
Why on earth would a hardcore gamer wish to add yet another layer
between program and player?
There is no way Cedage or Wine can run a given program better than the
OS it was designed to run natively on.
No way and this has been proven over and over again.
Making a political statement concerning gaming is one thing, making
such a statement when ones career is at hand is yet another ball of
wax.
I, for one, see no sane reason to use Linux when it has become obvious
to me that everyone else is using either Windows or OSX.
Maybe it is YOU who needs to escape from gaming into the real world.
Unruh
>Rick ha escrito:
>> On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 17:13:09 -0700, Emmanuel Arias wrote:
>> (snip)
>> >
>> > Linux is just not worth it.
>> Maybe not for you. Stop whining. Deal with it.
>> )snip)
>But that is just my point, it's not just me.
>It's THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of students entering college in the fall
>who are going to be met with the Linux wall of rejection.
>Linux users who sit at home and advocate Linux tooth and nail have no
>idea what really happens in the real world.
>To them, Linux looks great, and it is good, but the reality in the real
>world is that virtually nobody is using Linux and by attempting to use
>Linux you, the end user, are swimming upstream.
>Tell me, why I should be a martyr in order to proclaim my use of Linux?
>What is this going to do for my GPA?
Learn to use lots of operating systems. Nothing particularly wrong with
OSX. Nothing wrong with Linux. Here one of the courses insists on Linux.
>When my Professor can't read my assignment?
>When the Excel formula's don't work with OPenOffice?
>Can I cry foul?
>Of course not because the criteria for the curriculum specifically
>states the requirements and Linux is not listed in there.
A weird University or college. All you can do is to suggest that the prof
might consider making sure things also work with Linux.
>So tell me one good reason why I should put my GPA in the sling for
>Linux?
You would be stupid to do so.
>EA
Liam Slider
> Oh by the way -- your interest in Linux over Windows already tells me you
> shoud avoid (and at all costs) Accounting. Otherwise, learn to love
> Windows -- as all the professional accounting packages are Windows only.
You mean all *commercial, closed source software* accounting packages are
Windows only. There are some *really* high end professional accounting
apps for Linux out there.
TheLetterK
"Emmanuel Arias" <emm_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Rick ha escrito:
> > On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 17:13:09 -0700, Emmanuel Arias wrote:
> > (snip)
> > >
> > > Linux is just not worth it.
> > Maybe not for you. Stop whining. Deal with it.
> > )snip)
>
> But that is just my point, it's not just me.
> It's THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of students entering college in the fall
> who are going to be met with the Linux wall of rejection.
>
> Linux users who sit at home and advocate Linux tooth and nail have no
> idea what really happens in the real world.
Nice generalization. Good thing it's not rooted in reality.
> To them, Linux looks great, and it is good, but the reality in the real
> world is that virtually nobody is using Linux and by attempting to use
> Linux you, the end user, are swimming upstream.
Incorrect. Lots of people are using it, lots more are considering it,
and ever more will continue to switch to it.
>
> Tell me, why I should be a martyr in order to proclaim my use of Linux?
How would you be a martyr?
>
> What is this going to do for my GPA?
Nothing.
>
> When my Professor can't read my assignment?
Except he could.
> When the Excel formula's don't work with OPenOffice?
Use something else Microsoft Office runs very well using Crossover
Office or VMWare. You choose to avoid these solutions for reasons
unknown.
> Can I cry foul?
> Of course not because the criteria for the curriculum specifically
> states the requirements and Linux is not listed in there.
So work around them, if you want to use it. I've gone ahead and
explained easy solutions to the issues you've brought up.
>
> So tell me one good reason why I should put my GPA in the sling for
> Linux?
You still haven't adequately explained why Crossover Office would not be
an acceptable solution.
>
> EA
alt
A bunch of garbage
let's see... yahoo email addy + google groups posting = TROLL!!!
need I say more?
Emmanuel Arias
Wine?
Vmware?
This stuff will cost me close to $300 or more and what guarentee do I
have that it will work?
Just reading the failures running MSOffice with xover office is enough
to scare me.
I have YET to see any type of plugin, emulator, application layer etc
perform as well as the real thing under the real OS it was designed
for.
And let's assume it does work, why should I use it?
What is the incentive?
Telling 100 students that I use Linux and they are all nuts because
they pay for software?
Maybe that might go over in the comp.sci dorms but I doubt the other 99
percent of the campus will se it that we.
The rest of us use applications and are looking for good grades.
dyrmak
> I, for one, see no sane reason to use Linux when it has become obvious
> to me that everyone else is using either Windows or OSX.
>
> Maybe it is YOU who needs to escape from gaming into the real world.
Ask yourself as to what your real motivations in life are...
Accounting is not my everyday cup of tea but I deal a lot with a working
Linux workstation all in all I spent nearly four years to have what I have,
Linux is a matter of willingness and motivation, otherwise
no need to worry just be happy.
dyrmak
B Gruff
> In addition I have been told that I will receive many canned
> spreadsheet programs that will only run under Excel.
Excellent!
At last!
Some REAL accounting spreadsheets that will run ONLY under Excel.
Please, please. post some for us?
They are obviously VERY readilly obtainable, and in the public domain.
Please post now!
> While I can purchase all this stuff for very little money with my
> student discount, I find it disheartening that Linux is not
> included. When I asked the administration personal about Linux they
> handed me a sheet of paper explaining why Linux is not supported.
> Neither is any form of Windows 9x BTW and only certain levels of
> Windows 2000 and up. Understand this did not just happen at one
> college but at several when I attended their open houses.
We'd be delighted to see it!
Please scan and post.
Also, please ensure that it is scanned with the name of the college,
department and author.
There is clearly something here which needs to be addressed.
You have cheered me so much. Usually, these claims apply to
privileged information, but to find some genuine stuff which is in
the public domain is great.
Do please post:-)
Bill
Peter Köhlmann
< snip flatfish droppings >
> Emmanuel Arias
Hi flatfish. How is that open relay in Argentina working? Fast enough to
troll?
You recetnly posted also as
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Baba Booey, Babu Singh, bill.gates.loves.me, bison, Bjarne Jensen,
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Christine Abernathy, Claire Lynn, Collie Entragion, Connie Hines, dbx_boy,
Deadpenguin, Elliot Zimmermann, Fawn Lebowitz, flatfish+++, foamy, Gary
Stewart, George Littlefield, Gilbert Hochaim, gilligan, Greg Finnigan, Greg
Laplante, Hans Kimm, Heather, Heather69, hepcat, Ishmeal Hafizi, itchy
balls, Ivan Mctavish, IvanaB, Jeff Szarka, juke_joint, kaptain kaput,
kathy_krantz, Kendra, Les Turner, Lilly, Lindy, Lisa Shavas,
long_tong_ling, Lukumi Babalu Aye, Luna Lane, Major Mynor, McSwain, Moses,
narrows_...@yahoo.com, nate_mcspook, okto_pussy, Paddy McCrockett,
Patricia, Peter Gluckman, Phillip Cornwall, phoung quoak, pickle_pete,
Poopy Pants McGee, Quimby, Richie O'Toole, Robert Strunk, rothstein_ivan,
Sammy, Saul Goldblatt, Schlomo Smykowski, Sharon Hubbasland, Sean, Sean
Fitzhenry, Sean Macpherson, Sewer Rat, sewer_clown, Spammy_Davis,
spanny_davis, Stephan Simonsen, Stephen, Stephen Townshend, SuckyB, SunnyB,
Susan Wong, Suzie Wong, Swampee, The Beaver, Thorsten, Toby Rastus
Roosovelt III, Tori, Tori Wassermann, Tracee, trailerpark, Trina Swallows,
Vince Fontain, Vladimir Yepifano, Walter Bubniak, Wang Mycock, Whizzer,
Wilbur J, Willy Wong, Winnie Septos,Wobbles and zyklon_C.
Plus many, many, many more.
--
"Last I checked, it wasn't the power cord for the Clue Generator that
was sticking up your ass." - John Novak, rasfwrj
Rick
>
>
> Rick ha escrito:
>> On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 17:13:09 -0700, Emmanuel Arias wrote: (snip)
>> >
>> > Linux is just not worth it.
>> Maybe not for you. Stop whining. Deal with it. )snip)
>
> But that is just my point, it's not just me. It's THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS
> of students entering college in the fall who are going to be met with the
> Linux wall of rejection.
There will be thousands that meet with the OS X wall of rejection...
>
> Linux users who sit at home and advocate Linux tooth and nail have no idea
> what really happens in the real world.
Yada, yada, yada.
> To them, Linux looks great, and it
> is good, but the reality in the real world is that virtually nobody is
> using Linux and by attempting to use Linux you, the end user, are swimming
> upstream.
Virtually nobody?
ahaha AH aHHAHA ahah HAHAH ahHAHAHA ahHAhaa HAHa haH
>
> Tell me, why I should be a martyr in order to proclaim my use of Linux?
So don't.
>
> What is this going to do for my GPA?
I don't know. From you remarks, I don't expect your GPA to be very high.
>
> When my Professor can't read my assignment?
Can he/she not read?
> When the Excel formula's don't work with OPenOffice?
What makes you think the formula won't work? And what makes you think that
is a --Linux-- issue?
> Can I cry foul?
You seem to be doing a fairly good job of crying here.
> Of course not because the criteria for the curriculum specifically states
> the requirements and Linux is not listed in there.
>
> So tell me one good reason why I should put my GPA in the sling for Linux?
>
And one more time, ...
... don't use it. And stop whining.
Rick
> Crossover Office?
> Wine?
> Vmware?
>
> This stuff will cost me close to $300 or more and what guarantee do I
> have that it will work?
Wine is $0
Crossover is $50ish with student pricing.
VMware can be purchased for $70 with student pricing.
How does buyig one of those add up to $300?
There is no guarantee micro$oft products will work for you.
> Just reading the failures running MSOffice with xover office is enough
> to scare me.
Yeah, right.
> I have YET to see any type of plugin, emulator, application layer etc
> perform as well as the real thing under the real OS it was designed for.
Well, VMWare runs window$. The whole thing. So you would be running
windows based software under... wait for it... windows.
>
> And let's assume it does work, why should I use it?
I dunno? Why should you? You don't seem to want to?
> What is the incentive?
Better OS? Better security?
> Telling 100 students that I use Linux and they are all nuts
> because they pay for software?
WHy would you do that?
>
> Maybe that might go over in the comp.sci dorms but I doubt the other 99
> percent of the campus will se it that we. The rest of us use
> applications
I am using an application right now.
> and are looking for good grades.
The last time I took a college course was for rectification points for
my teaching license. I got an A. I use Linux.
And AGAIN...
Don't use Linux if it really doesn't meet you needs. Just stop lying and
Lefty Bigfoot
(in article
<1121143307.2...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>):
> Crossover Office?
> Wine?
> Vmware?
>
> This stuff will cost me close to $300 or more and what guarentee do I
> have that it will work?
I don't bother, but have a good friend that has been using CO
for quite a while, and is happy with it.
> Just reading the failures running MSOffice with xover office is enough
> to scare me.
Then don't. Run OpenOffice instead. That's what I do (along
with NeoOfficeJ on the Mac), and both work perfectly for me. I
can read/write word, excel, etc.
> I have YET to see any type of plugin, emulator, application layer etc
> perform as well as the real thing under the real OS it was designed
> for.
Fortunately there are alternatives.
> And let's assume it does work, why should I use it?
Oh, I was taking you seriously. You just want to bitch.
> Telling 100 students that I use Linux and they are all nuts because
> they pay for software?
If your school has new today, of which 100% use windows, you
need a higher selection process for new student admission.
> The rest of us use applications and are looking for good grades.
If you can't get a good grade with OpenOffice instead of Office,
you're not going to make it out anyway.
Peter T. Breuer
> Rick ha escrito:
> > On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 17:13:09 -0700, Emmanuel Arias wrote:
> > (snip)
> > >
> > > Linux is just not worth it.
> > Maybe not for you. Stop whining. Deal with it.
> > )snip)
>
> But that is just my point, it's not just me.
> It's THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of students entering college in the fall
> who are going to be met with the Linux wall of rejection.
Eh? Troll, right? Cross-posted to an advocacy group = troll!
You must be luxuriating in the cesspool you stirup. Thankfully our
university is based on linux servers, and all our (department's)
courses run linux, and all our labs run linux, and I think all the CS
department's do too (we are the polytechnic school, I think they're in
the lower school instead, so I don't meet them, but I know them). My
mailer rejects anything conceived my microsoft, and has, for ten years.
Students here get a free copy of debian and go install it, or they run
knoppix to do their practicals on.
Peter
chrisv
>I'm a first year college student
Sure you are, flathead.
*plonk*
JDS
> Wine is $0
> Crossover is $50ish with student pricing.
> VMware can be purchased for $70 with student pricing.
Not to mention Crossover Office is FREE (as in beer) to download and try
out. FREE. If it works, *then* pay for it.
It does work, BTW, and quite well, especially for MS Office.
--
JDS | jef...@example.invalid
| http://www.newtnotes.com
DJMBS | http://newtnotes.com/doctor-jeff-master-brainsurgeon/
JDS
> There is no way Cedage or Wine can run a given program better than the
> OS it was designed to run natively on.
> No way and this has been proven over and over again.
False.
Snit
pan.2005.07.12....@example.invalid on 7/12/05 8:15 AM:
> On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 10:40:59 +0000, Rick wrote:
>
>> Wine is $0
>> Crossover is $50ish with student pricing.
>> VMware can be purchased for $70 with student pricing.
>
> Not to mention Crossover Office is FREE (as in beer) to download and try
> out. FREE. If it works, *then* pay for it.
Hmmm, MS Office offers a free demo, too... and if you like it you can have
it for only $50 / computer (though you need three computers - $50 for a
three computer student license).
>
> It does work, BTW, and quite well, especially for MS Office.
MS Office works well for MS Office, too. :)
Actually the Mac version of MS Office is in ways better than the Windows
one... at least for most home / small office needs.
--
If A = B and B = C, then A = C, except where void or prohibited by law.
Roy Santoro, Psycho Proverb Zone (http://snipurl.com/BurdenOfProof)
_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
More than 120,000 groups
Unlimited download
http://www.usenetzone.com to open account
Kier
> However, none can hold a candle to OS X for ease of use and general
> productivity. Linux is fun as a geek toy and an enjoyable way to learn
> Unix, but it takes a high level of computing skill to use it. There is
> no way in hell that Joe Sixpack will ever want to run a Linux system.
Wow, I must suddenly have turned into a high-powered computer expert type
person, then.... Nope, I'm still just me, a very bog-standard Linux user.
Using Linux is not more difficult that using Windows, or OSX. Linux may be
marginally more difficult to set up, depending on the distro.
--
Kier
ELVIS2000
<li...@nospam.liamslider.com> wrote:
>You mean all *commercial, closed source software* accounting packages are
>Windows only. There are some *really* high end professional accounting
>apps for Linux out there.
None taught in college, though.
Liam Slider
But certainly used out in the corporate world.
Snit
u0t7d1917etipah2f...@4ax.com on 7/12/05 9:47 AM:
Having worked for Intuit I can tell you precisely how often I heard people
expressing concern over the Linux packages... none. Not once.
Why do you think that is?
--
Look, this is silly. It's not an argument, it's an armor plated walrus with
walnut paneling and an all leather interior.
rapskat
> "ELVIS2000" <elvi...@ElvisLives.com> stated in post
> u0t7d1917etipah2f...@4ax.com on 7/12/05 9:47 AM:
>
>> On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 04:07:03 GMT, Liam Slider
>> <li...@nospam.liamslider.com> wrote:
>>
>>> You mean all *commercial, closed source software* accounting packages are
>>> Windows only. There are some *really* high end professional accounting
>>> apps for Linux out there.
>>
>> None taught in college, though.
>
> Having worked for Intuit I can tell you precisely how often I heard people
> expressing concern over the Linux packages... none. Not once.
>
> Why do you think that is?
Maybe because Intuit doesn't make a Linux version of their end user
software?
M$ probably doesn't get a lot of support calls about Linux either.
--
rapskat - 13:16:27 up 3 days, 12:48, 2 users, load average: 0.37, 0.38, 0.31
"I hear that if you win, you get a free probe by aliens."
-- Bill Coldwell, regarding the SETI@home project
TheLetterK
> Crossover Office?
> Wine?
> Vmware?
>
> This stuff will cost me close to $300 or more and what guarentee do I
> have that it will work?
$200. And yes, that's cheaper than any reasonable Mac.
> Just reading the failures running MSOffice with xover office is enough
> to scare me.
Office 2000 is one of their 'Gold' collections, which they check
compatiblity against before release. Not usre about 2004, but earlier
versions should probably work. Aside from the Excel work, I don't see
why OpenOffice would bother you. Just buy a copy of Excel 2000, use
Crossover Office
> I have YET to see any type of plugin, emulator, application layer etc
> perform as well as the real thing under the real OS it was designed
> for.
WINE works fairly well for certain apps (including the ones you've
mentioned). VMWare is *very* good. It may not be quite as fast as native
Windows, but it's very close. Certainly enough for 'accounting apps'.
>
> And let's assume it does work, why should I use it?
To save yourself money? Office for Mac isn't cheap. Even with the
Academic discount. So at minimum your looking at $650 for a base Mac
mini and Office (assuming you've got a USB mouse and keyboard). By the
time you get it where your wanting it your looking at $740 or so.
> What is the incentive?
Price. Choice. Being on the leading edge. Pick a reason.
> Telling 100 students that I use Linux and they are all nuts because
> they pay for software?
You don't have to tell them they're nuts. What makes you think that? "I
use Linux" is perfectly sufficient.
>
> Maybe that might go over in the comp.sci dorms but I doubt the other 99
> percent of the campus will se it that we.
> The rest of us use applications and are looking for good grades.
I don't see your logic. At all. Your wanting to pay more, for a more
complex solution. For reasons that make no sense. When cheaper options
have been laid out for you.
TheLetterK
> Emmanuel Arias wrote
> (in article
> <1121143307.2...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>):
>
>
>>Crossover Office?
>>Wine?
>>Vmware?
>>
>>This stuff will cost me close to $300 or more and what guarentee do I
>>have that it will work?
>
>
> I don't bother, but have a good friend that has been using CO
> for quite a while, and is happy with it.
>
>
>>Just reading the failures running MSOffice with xover office is enough
>>to scare me.
>
>
> Then don't. Run OpenOffice instead. That's what I do (along
> with NeoOfficeJ on the Mac), and both work perfectly for me. I
> can read/write word, excel, etc.
enough. Once you start dealing with Excel 'programming', your toast.
Snit
pan.2005.07.12....@rapskat.com on 7/12/05 10:18 AM:
> On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 10:00:24 -0700, Snit wrote:
>
>> "ELVIS2000" <elvi...@ElvisLives.com> stated in post
>> u0t7d1917etipah2f...@4ax.com on 7/12/05 9:47 AM:
>>
>>> On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 04:07:03 GMT, Liam Slider
>>> <li...@nospam.liamslider.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> You mean all *commercial, closed source software* accounting packages are
>>>> Windows only. There are some *really* high end professional accounting
>>>> apps for Linux out there.
>>>
>>> None taught in college, though.
>>
>> Having worked for Intuit I can tell you precisely how often I heard people
>> expressing concern over the Linux packages... none. Not once.
>>
>> Why do you think that is?
>
> Maybe because Intuit doesn't make a Linux version of their end user
> software?
>
> M$ probably doesn't get a lot of support calls about Linux either.
Who said anything about "support calls"? Would you please, please, try to
stay on topic and not just follow me around trolling with inane questions
that have nothing to do with what I am talking about.
Please?
--
God made me an atheist - who are you to question his authority?
Peter Köhlmann
> "rapskat" <rap...@gmail.com> stated in post
> pan.2005.07.12....@rapskat.com on 7/12/05 10:18 AM:
>
>> On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 10:00:24 -0700, Snit wrote:
>>
>>> "ELVIS2000" <elvi...@ElvisLives.com> stated in post
>>> u0t7d1917etipah2f...@4ax.com on 7/12/05 9:47 AM:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 04:07:03 GMT, Liam Slider
>>>> <li...@nospam.liamslider.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You mean all *commercial, closed source software* accounting packages
>>>>> are Windows only. There are some *really* high end professional
>>>>> accounting apps for Linux out there.
>>>>
>>>> None taught in college, though.
>>>
>>> Having worked for Intuit I can tell you precisely how often I heard
>>> people
>>> expressing concern over the Linux packages... none. Not once.
>>>
>>> Why do you think that is?
>>
>> Maybe because Intuit doesn't make a Linux version of their end user
>> software?
>>
>> M$ probably doesn't get a lot of support calls about Linux either.
>
> Who said anything about "support calls"? Would you please, please, try to
> stay on topic and not just follow me around trolling with inane questions
> that have nothing to do with what I am talking about.
>
> Please?
>
Since when do you dictate what other posters write here?
You are, after all, just a rather stupid troll from the Mac-camp
With no linux experience worth mentioning
You have absolutely *no* say in what people write in response to your inane
drivel
And, BTW, what he wrote was on-topic. You just happen to not like it,
because it debunks your bullshit?
What you trry to do here in cola now is simply a rerun of your Snot-circus
It will not work
--
All things are possible, except skiing thru a revolving door.
Snit
db126s$au9$01$1...@news.t-online.com on 7/12/05 11:29 AM:
> begin virus.txt.scr Snot snotted:
>
>> "rapskat" <rap...@gmail.com> stated in post
>> pan.2005.07.12....@rapskat.com on 7/12/05 10:18 AM:
>>
>>> On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 10:00:24 -0700, Snit wrote:
>>>
>>>> "ELVIS2000" <elvi...@ElvisLives.com> stated in post
>>>> u0t7d1917etipah2f...@4ax.com on 7/12/05 9:47 AM:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 04:07:03 GMT, Liam Slider
>>>>> <li...@nospam.liamslider.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> You mean all *commercial, closed source software* accounting packages
>>>>>> are Windows only. There are some *really* high end professional
>>>>>> accounting apps for Linux out there.
>>>>>
>>>>> None taught in college, though.
>>>>
>>>> Having worked for Intuit I can tell you precisely how often I heard
>>>> people
>>>> expressing concern over the Linux packages... none. Not once.
>>>>
>>>> Why do you think that is?
>>>
>>> Maybe because Intuit doesn't make a Linux version of their end user
>>> software?
>>>
>>> M$ probably doesn't get a lot of support calls about Linux either.
>>
>> Who said anything about "support calls"? Would you please, please, try to
>> stay on topic and not just follow me around trolling with inane questions
>> that have nothing to do with what I am talking about.
>>
>> Please?
>>
>
> Since when do you dictate what other posters write here?
Since when is a request for someone to "please, please, try to stay on topic
and not just follow me around trolling with inane questions that have
nothing to do with what I am talking about" the same thing as a dictate?
Oh, you are simply following me around asking inane questions that have
nothing to do with what I am talking about.
Would you please, please stop doing so? Not a dictate, just a pleasant
request for you to stop trolling and flaming... as you continue to do,
below:
> You are, after all, just a rather stupid troll from the Mac-camp
> With no linux experience worth mentioning
> You have absolutely *no* say in what people write in response to your inane
> drivel
> And, BTW, what he wrote was on-topic. You just happen to not like it,
> because it debunks your bullshit?
>
> What you trry to do here in cola now is simply a rerun of your Snot-circus
> It will not work
--
"Innovation is not about saying yes to everything. It's about saying NO to
all but the most crucial features." -- Steve Jobs
РясфMь++
<1121130601.8...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>:
>
>
>TheLetterK ha escrito:
>> So buy Crossover Office, VMWare, or just dual boot with Windows. All
of
>> them are certainly cheaper than a Mac.
>
>I am very much against purchasing any Windows software. Like I have
>already stated, I use Windows for only iTunes and Rahpsody.
Check to make sure MS Office is included when you get your Mac.
IIRC it is. And then you have *no* compatibility issues.
>Crossover Office is $75.00 and Vmware is about $200.00 and what
>guarentee do I have that EVERY application I need to run will work?
>
Nothing. In fact evry time that OpenOffice changes their code to be
compatible with MS Office, M$ changes Office with an "upgrade" to make
it incompatible.
>I was already warned about Openoffice not running some of the
>accounting departments tutorials correctly.
>
Open Office is very user friendly and pretty.
Compatibility isnt 100% though.
>> I don't see how it could effect your grades, or chance for an
>> internship. If anything, it would reflect highly upon your personal
>> convictions and dedication.
>
>See above.
>
My teachers in the computer department said I could use OO to do stuff
but if it wasn't compatible I'd have to re-submit my work.
>I don't want to spend time tinkering to make things work, I need to
>concentrate on learning accounting.
>My computer is simply a tool that I use, not a lifetime passion.
>
Go with the Mac then. Its for getting stuff done; not tweaking the OS
as its not necessary.
Mac Minis are cheap enough anyway.
>> >
>> > Linux is just not worth it.
>> I disagree.
>
>That's ok, but when my main goal is to learn my craft and my computer
>is just a tool in that process, that tool should not get in the way.
>
Mac it is then :0)
>>From what I am learning, Linux gets in the way in a big way in fact.
>Linux is an oddball system that few know about, virtually nobody
>supports and certainly isn't worth fussing over when I can move on to
>OSX, at deep discounted student pricing.
>
Must be nice. Part time students like me prolly dont :0(
>My time IS worth something in all of this.
>
Yep.
TheLetterK
> Emmanuel Arias <emm_...@yahoo.com> wrote in
> <1121130601.8...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>:
>
>
>>
>>TheLetterK ha escrito:
>>
>>>So buy Crossover Office, VMWare, or just dual boot with Windows. All
>
> of
>
>>>them are certainly cheaper than a Mac.
>>
>>I am very much against purchasing any Windows software. Like I have
>>already stated, I use Windows for only iTunes and Rahpsody.
>
>
> Check to make sure MS Office is included when you get your Mac.
> IIRC it is. And then you have *no* compatibility issues.
>
>
>>Crossover Office is $75.00 and Vmware is about $200.00 and what
>>guarentee do I have that EVERY application I need to run will work?
>>
>
> Nothing. In fact evry time that OpenOffice changes their code to be
> compatible with MS Office, M$ changes Office with an "upgrade" to make
> it incompatible.
This is why we've been suggesting Crossover OFfice to run Microsoft
Office on Linux. Problem Solved.
Nothing
> "rapskat" <rap...@gmail.com> stated in post
> pan.2005.07.12....@rapskat.com on 7/12/05 10:18 AM:
>
>> On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 10:00:24 -0700, Snit wrote:
>>
>>> "ELVIS2000" <elvi...@ElvisLives.com> stated in post
>>> u0t7d1917etipah2f...@4ax.com on 7/12/05 9:47 AM:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 04:07:03 GMT, Liam Slider
>>>> <li...@nospam.liamslider.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You mean all *commercial, closed source software* accounting packages
>>>>> are Windows only. There are some *really* high end professional
>>>>> accounting apps for Linux out there.
>>>>
>>>> None taught in college, though.
>>>
>>> Having worked for Intuit I can tell you precisely how often I heard
>>> people
>>> expressing concern over the Linux packages... none. Not once.
>>>
>>> Why do you think that is?
>>
>> Maybe because Intuit doesn't make a Linux version of their end user
>> software?
>>
>> M$ probably doesn't get a lot of support calls about Linux either.
>
> Who said anything about "support calls"? Would you please, please, try to
> stay on topic and not just follow me around trolling with inane questions
> that have nothing to do with what I am talking about.
>
> Please?
Would you please. please stop your trolling and and leave cola?
Please?
neilnew...@hotmail.com
Emmanuel Arias wrote:
(snip)
> So now that I am a college freshman to be, I am encountering one
> obstacle after another just because I use Linux. It seems that the
> computing centers at virtually every single school I've applied to are
> only supporting OSX and Windows, and only certain versions of Windows.
(snip)
> So now I am looking at a new G5 system because I can't stomach the
> thought of using Windows.
> Maybe I am copping out, but honestly I can't see myself having to jump
> through hoops for the rest of my life just to use Linux.
I see your point. Soon you'll be a student and you need to be able to
focus on your schoolwork and learning, not mess around with an
operating system that's incompatible or presents hassles with what your
school requires you to do.
You can always dabble in Linux in your spare time. I'm not surprised
that schools don't want to support a 3rd operating system; schools'
resources are almost always pretty limited. I wouldn't be surprised if
some college support only Windows, given that Windows is the dominant
OS by far in the home and business world.
> It's just not worth the time and the effort and the consequences of
> using a mostly orphan desktop operating system could effect my grades
> and chances for internships.
I think you're doing the right thing. Actually, if you really want to
gain experience with what you'll be doing eventually in almost any big
US business, you could go ahead and go over to Windows. Having worked
in some very large US businesses myself, I can tell you that all I've
seen used in recent years are Windows machines, with a few Mac
exceptions in an art department that produced ads, brochures, etc.
I'm not knocking Linux or OS X, just telling you how it is. The Mac is
great. I'm glad schools are supporting it and that you can get MS
Office, Excel, etc. for the Mac and work compatibly with the Windows
people. But in the US in big businesses, you'll be very unlikely to see
anything except Windows in any office.
By saying the above, I hope I'm not stepping on the toes of any Linux
or Mac fans. I'm glad both exist and I hope they grow and challenge
Windows further. But I think I'm telling it like it is about what you
will be doing in any big US business after you graduate and start work.
Anyway, good luck with college and your studies. I think you're smart
to simplify your life by doing things on your school's terms, rather
than struggle with making Linux do what your teachers will require you
to do. If I were in your shoes, I'd move to a Mac or Windows too.
7
> I'm a first year college student who is entering an accounting program
> at a major university.
Liar!
You are a paid microshaft astro turd trying to pass off as
a student when your post is identical to those traced
orginating from microshat spewed cut and paste
PR companies.
Windope prices are going up and up and students
to teachers and departments can't afford the high prices
windopes demand in money and that without access to source
code for training purposes. Simple price comparison
shows windows lose by several hundred percentage
points when it comes to robbing students,
teachers and departments alike.
Real students have plenty of homework to do
for the summer holidays with free OS and
free access to source code to tweek and learn.
Some 250+ free liveCDs to try out for instance
in this link alone.
http://www.frozentech.com/content/livecd.php
РясфMь++
Date: 12 Jul 2005 21:29:45 GMT
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NNTP-Posting-Date: 12 Jul 2005 16:29:45 CDT
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X-Complaints-To: ab...@readfreenews.net
Emmanuel Arias <emm_...@yahoo.com> wrote in
<1121130601.8...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>:
>
>
>TheLetterK ha escrito:
>> So buy Crossover Office, VMWare, or just dual boot with Windows. All
of
>> them are certainly cheaper than a Mac.
>
>I am very much against purchasing any Windows software. Like I have
>already stated, I use Windows for only iTunes and Rahpsody.
Check to make sure MS Office is included when you get your Mac.
IIRC it is. And then you have *no* compatibility issues.
>Crossover Office is $75.00 and Vmware is about $200.00 and what
>guarentee do I have that EVERY application I need to run will work?
>
Nothing. In fact evry time that OpenOffice changes their code to be
compatible with MS Office, M$ changes Office with an "upgrade" to make
it incompatible.
>I was already warned about Openoffice not running some of the
neilnew...@hotmail.com
TheLetterK wrote:
> Emmanuel Arias wrote:
(snip)
> > So now that I am a college freshman to be, I am encountering one
> > obstacle after another just because I use Linux. It seems that the
> > computing centers at virtually every single school I've applied to are
> > only supporting OSX and Windows, and only certain versions of Windows.
> Typically when they say 'we only support OS X and Windows', that means
> 'We won't help you with Linux problems'.
Another reason for the OP to move to OS X or Windows.
> > If that were just it I wouldn't have a problem but it is not that
> > simple. For the accounting program there are various items of software
> > that must be purchased and the textbooks and curriculum are based upon
> > that software.
> > In addition I have been told that I will receive many canned
> > spreadsheet programs that will only run under Excel.
>
> So buy Crossover Office, VMWare,
But these are just workarounds. I think it makes more sense to accept
and follow his school's requirements.
> or just dual boot with Windows.
I see your point, but it might simplify his life to stick with one of
the two OS's that his school supports while he's in school. He won't be
graded on how many OS's he can run on his PC, so he might as well run
only one, OS X or Windows.
>All of them are certainly cheaper than a Mac.
I don't think money's an issue here. If the OP can afford tuition, he
can afford a new PC.
(snip)
> > To be honest maybe this is a good thing for me because I am discovering
> > that in leaving the sheltered world of a typical high school student
> > and starting to enter the real world (I hate that term!) it is quite
> > obvious that the world runs on Windows or Macintosh and Linux and Linux
> > support is almost impossible to find.
> That's why you provide it for yourself.
But that's another burden for somebody who will have plenty of
schoolwork and other matters to contend with.
Heck, why is everything in newsgroups always either/or? The OP can
still dabble in Linux in his spare time, if he likes, while meeting his
school's requirements and working in OS X or Windows.
(snip)
> > So now I am looking at a new G5 system because I can't stomach the
> > thought of using Windows.
> > Maybe I am copping out, but honestly I can't see myself having to jump
> > through hoops for the rest of my life just to use Linux.
> Won't be 'the rest of your life', not even a decade.
True.
> It'll get
> progressively easier once Linux hits critical mass on the desktop (in
> three years or so there should be more desktop Linux users than Mac
> users, assuming the trend continues with any degree of accuracy).
And assuming that happens, the OP's background in Linux will be useful
to him. But in the world of big business in the US, most likely what
his future employer will provide is Windows and MS Office, and at least
with the Mac or a Wintel PC he can get MS Office (with student
discount, only $60-$70 for the student version with three installs, at
least at my local college) and do compatible work with both Mac and
Wintel users.
I think that'll be easier than using substitute/workaround Linux
software instead of MS Office. There will probably be times when he'll
be collaborating with other students in work and study, so that's
another reason it makes sense for him to use OS X or Windows.
> > It's just not worth the time and the effort and the consequences of
> > using a mostly orphan desktop operating system could effect my grades
> > and chances for internships.
> I don't see how it could effect your grades, or chance for an
> internship.
Having to deal with workarounds and avoiding what his school requires
could be a distraction. The school wants to give him OS X and Windows
support and so I think it makes sense to accept that.
But it's not like he has to marry one OS and forsake all others. He can
still dabble in Linux. Heck, he can keep his old PC, buy a new Mac, and
use Linux, OS X, and Windows too, if he wants to. But it'll probably be
easiest for him to pick one of the two OS's that his school (in
essence) requires.
> If anything, it would reflect highly upon your personal
> convictions and dedication.
That's an interesting POV, but I think any student should focus on
simplifying his life so that he can focus on schoolwork and learning
what he's required to learn.
> > Linux is just not worth it.
> I disagree.
In the OP's situation, I can see why he'd want to move to what his
school offers.
To simplify things, let's imagine that his school only supports and
recognizes work done to be down black ballpoint pens. All assignments
require black ballpoint pens and that's all his professors and the
other students will use. Even if he strongly prefers blue rollerball
pens, for the sake of being compatible with what goes on in school,
he's smart to start using black ballpoint pens to be compatible with
the school's needs and the requirements he needs to meet.
And he can always use the blue rollerball pens in his spare time or
wherever it's not a hassle with the school.
Or say he was going to a military academy. But even if he dislikes
uniforms, it could make sense for him to start wearing the uniform,
given that that's what the school will want him to do and will support
wearing uniforms.
In closing, one of the nice things about Linux is that it doesn't have
to be an either/or thing. People can still use OS X or Windows too.
(snip)
TheLetterK
TheLetterK
>
> TheLetterK wrote:
>
>>Emmanuel Arias wrote:
>
>
> (snip)
>
>
>>>So now that I am a college freshman to be, I am encountering one
>>>obstacle after another just because I use Linux. It seems that the
>>>computing centers at virtually every single school I've applied to are
>>>only supporting OSX and Windows, and only certain versions of Windows.
>
>
>>Typically when they say 'we only support OS X and Windows', that means
>>'We won't help you with Linux problems'.
>
>
> Another reason for the OP to move to OS X or Windows.
>
>
>>>If that were just it I wouldn't have a problem but it is not that
>>>simple. For the accounting program there are various items of software
>>>that must be purchased and the textbooks and curriculum are based upon
>>>that software.
>>>In addition I have been told that I will receive many canned
>>>spreadsheet programs that will only run under Excel.
>>
>>So buy Crossover Office, VMWare,
>
>
> But these are just workarounds. I think it makes more sense to accept
> and follow his school's requirements.
reason*? It's the same apps that everyone else uses, just in a different
environment. I don't see how this is at all an issue, if all of the apps
he works with will work with Crossover Office.
>
>
>>or just dual boot with Windows.
>
>
> I see your point, but it might simplify his life to stick with one of
> the two OS's that his school supports while he's in school. He won't be
> graded on how many OS's he can run on his PC, so he might as well run
> only one, OS X or Windows.
Any particular reason? If Linux works, why not stick with what he has?
If it's not broken, don't fix it.
>
>
>>All of them are certainly cheaper than a Mac.
>
>
> I don't think money's an issue here. If the OP can afford tuition, he
> can afford a new PC.
Right--because he has money he should waste it. Wouldn't it be better to
pay off his student loan, or save it, or invest it, or whatever? There's
no reason to be running OS X or Windows in the situation he has
described. It's a waste of time and money to switch platforms in that
position.
>
> (snip)
>
>
>>>To be honest maybe this is a good thing for me because I am discovering
>>>that in leaving the sheltered world of a typical high school student
>>>and starting to enter the real world (I hate that term!) it is quite
>>>obvious that the world runs on Windows or Macintosh and Linux and Linux
>>>support is almost impossible to find.
>
>
>>That's why you provide it for yourself.
>
>
> But that's another burden for somebody who will have plenty of
> schoolwork and other matters to contend with.
A whole two hours at the start of the year. Whatever shall he do?!
>
> Heck, why is everything in newsgroups always either/or? The OP can
> still dabble in Linux in his spare time, if he likes, while meeting his
> school's requirements and working in OS X or Windows.
It's still a waste of money to do so. I don't understand his
logic--we've shown ways in which Linux will work just fine, yet he seems
intent on avoiding solutions in favor of bashing a platform.
>
> (snip)
>
>
>>>So now I am looking at a new G5 system because I can't stomach the
>>>thought of using Windows.
>>>Maybe I am copping out, but honestly I can't see myself having to jump
>>>through hoops for the rest of my life just to use Linux.
>
>
>>Won't be 'the rest of your life', not even a decade.
>
>
> True.
>
>
>>It'll get
>>progressively easier once Linux hits critical mass on the desktop (in
>>three years or so there should be more desktop Linux users than Mac
>>users, assuming the trend continues with any degree of accuracy).
>
>
> And assuming that happens, the OP's background in Linux will be useful
> to him. But in the world of big business in the US, most likely what
> his future employer will provide is Windows and MS Office, and at least
> with the Mac or a Wintel PC he can get MS Office (with student
> discount, only $60-$70 for the student version with three installs, at
> least at my local college) and do compatible work with both Mac and
> Wintel users.
He can use MS Office on Linux, using Crossover OFfice. That's all this
has been about. Rather than spending $75 for Crossover Office, he'd
rather drop at least $500 on a new Mac. Makes no sense whatsoever.
>
> I think that'll be easier than using substitute/workaround Linux
> software instead of MS Office.
He'd still be using Microsoft Office. Just like the rest of the class.
> There will probably be times when he'll
> be collaborating with other students in work and study, so that's
> another reason it makes sense for him to use OS X or Windows.
How so?
>
>
>>>It's just not worth the time and the effort and the consequences of
>>>using a mostly orphan desktop operating system could effect my grades
>>>and chances for internships.
>
>
>>I don't see how it could effect your grades, or chance for an
>>internship.
>
>
> Having to deal with workarounds and avoiding what his school requires
> could be a distraction. The school wants to give him OS X and Windows
> support and so I think it makes sense to accept that.
It still doesn't explain why his grades would suffer. Really, we're
talking less than 5 hours worth of work, one time. It's not going to
make a measurable impact on his grades or personal value.
>
> But it's not like he has to marry one OS and forsake all others. He can
> still dabble in Linux. Heck, he can keep his old PC, buy a new Mac, and
> use Linux, OS X, and Windows too, if he wants to. But it'll probably be
> easiest for him to pick one of the two OS's that his school (in
> essence) requires.
It just makes no sense to do so. His existing system will work fine in
this situation, so why buy a new one?
>
>
>>If anything, it would reflect highly upon your personal
>>convictions and dedication.
>
>
> That's an interesting POV, but I think any student should focus on
> simplifying his life so that he can focus on schoolwork and learning
> what he's required to learn.
>
>
>>>Linux is just not worth it.
>
>
>>I disagree.
>
>
> In the OP's situation, I can see why he'd want to move to what his
> school offers.
I can't. His school wants him to use Microsoft Office. Fine. Run it on
Linux with Crossover OFfice. What's the problem?
>
> To simplify things, let's imagine that his school only supports and
> recognizes work done to be down black ballpoint pens. All assignments
> require black ballpoint pens and that's all his professors and the
> other students will use.
So my pen that can write in black, red, and blue ink wouldn't work for
submitting results that must be in black ink? He'd be using the same
application under my proposal as he would be otherwise.
> Even if he strongly prefers blue rollerball
> pens, for the sake of being compatible with what goes on in school,
> he's smart to start using black ballpoint pens to be compatible with
> the school's needs and the requirements he needs to meet.
That's not at all the situation--in this case it would be a ballpoint
pen capable of writing with multiple types of ink. It would be utterly
indistinguishable from a regular black ballpoint pen to those in charge.
>
> And he can always use the blue rollerball pens in his spare time or
> wherever it's not a hassle with the school.
>
> Or say he was going to a military academy. But even if he dislikes
> uniforms, it could make sense for him to start wearing the uniform,
> given that that's what the school will want him to do and will support
> wearing uniforms.
A more correct analogy would be a cotton uniform compared with a
silk-lined one. Those looking at you would never see the difference.
>
> In closing, one of the nice things about Linux is that it doesn't have
> to be an either/or thing. People can still use OS X or Windows too.
It just makes no sense to pay extra for nothing. His product will be the
same--and both OS X and Windows will probably cause a lot more trouble
over the couse of the year.
>
> (snip)
>
jsa...@ecn.ab.ca
> On 2005-07-11 18:01:07 -0700, TheLetterK <thele...@spymac.nosppam.com> said:
>> Emmanuel Arias wrote:
> >> So now I am looking at a new G5 system because I can't stomach the
> >> thought of using Windows.
> >> Maybe I am copping out, but honestly I can't see myself having to jump
> >> through hoops for the rest of my life just to use Linux.
> > Won't be 'the rest of your life', not even a decade. It'll get
> > progressively easier once Linux hits critical mass on the desktop (in
> > three years or so there should be more desktop Linux users than Mac
> > users, assuming the trend continues with any degree of accuracy).
> How long has the Linux crowd been predicting critical mass on the
> desktop? For the last 7 years its been "any time now." Linux is fine as
> a server but as a desktop operating system it leaves a lot to be
> desired.
> However, none can hold a candle to OS X for ease of use and general
> productivity. Linux is fun as a geek toy and an enjoyable way to learn
> Unix, but it takes a high level of computing skill to use it. There is
> no way in hell that Joe Sixpack will ever want to run a Linux system.
Linux is indeed not a threat to the Mac, even if, at some future date,
there are more Linux users than Mac users.
It is indeed, at present, a question of confusing Apples with oranges.
(Is the Orange Micro trademark available for someone to apply to a
computer with Linux pre-installed?)
Even if there isn't as much commercial shrink-wrapped software for the
Mac as there is for the PC, there is still much more than for Linux.
The European distribution Linspire - which, apparently, is still used
for running Linux programs, it isn't, as its old name suggested,
derived from an improved version of Wine - is trying to change the
positioning of Linux. So, in a different way, is Ubuntu.
Perhaps some distribution will eventually hit the right combination of
features to be easy to install, yet offer full access to all that Linux
has to offer. At present, what Linux has to offer, however, is very
different from what Windows has to offer - and the Macintosh is much
closer to Windows in this regard.
Of course, if Bang and Olufsen tried to push their own incompatible
format instead of the Compact Disk, great design would not save them
from oblivion in the hi-fi business. The lack of direct head-to-head
competition with the Windows juggernaut may save Linux from oblivion;
the Macintosh has a larger market to aim at, but by the same token,
Microsoft is not without value as an alternative to every Mac out
there.
John Savard
Robert Hull
<emm_...@yahoo.com> wrote an above average troll but a troll
nonetheless
PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS
Tim Smith
РясфMь++ <meka...@blewfalcun.nut> wrote:
> Nothing. In fact evry time that OpenOffice changes their code to be
> compatible with MS Office, M$ changes Office with an "upgrade" to make
> it incompatible.
So how come copies of Office that are a couple years old and aren't
upgraded have no trouble handling these alleged changes?
--
--Tim Smith
JEDIDIAH
> have that it will work?
Now you are just engaging in mindless trollery.
vwmare is a virtual machine emulator. There is NOTHING preventing
your apps from running under such a beast REGARDLESS OF WHAT IT IS.
[deletia]
If you had actually spent real money on vmware you would know that.
--
vi isn't easy to use. |||
/ | \
vi is easy to REPLACE.
JEDIDIAH
> On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 20:13:14 -0700, Emmanuel Arias wrote:
>
>> There is no way Cedage or Wine can run a given program better than the
>> OS it was designed to run natively on.
>> No way and this has been proven over and over again.
>
> False.
Hell, Spectre GCR demonstrated this to not be the case a long long
LONG time ago. This person is trying to claim that you can never make a better
moustrap.
That's actually a rather depressing notion....
JEDIDIAH
> Lefty Bigfoot wrote:
>> Emmanuel Arias wrote
>> (in article
>> <1121143307.2...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>):
>>
>>
>>>Crossover Office?
>>>Wine?
>>>Vmware?
>>>
>>>This stuff will cost me close to $300 or more and what guarentee do I
>>>have that it will work?
>>
>>
>> I don't bother, but have a good friend that has been using CO
>> for quite a while, and is happy with it.
>>
>>
>>>Just reading the failures running MSOffice with xover office is enough
>>>to scare me.
>>
>>
>> Then don't. Run OpenOffice instead. That's what I do (along
>> with NeoOfficeJ on the Mac), and both work perfectly for me. I
>> can read/write word, excel, etc.
> For what he's talking about OO.o's Spreadsheet app isn't compatible
> enough. Once you start dealing with Excel 'programming', your toast.
I really doubt you are doing anything that advanced in the
business school. Sure, if you were making engineering apps with the
thing, that might be a problem. However, you are very likely not doing
anything that complex.
[deletia]
Your drivel about $300 has already indicated that you are very
likely a fraud.
JEDIDIAH
>
>> Wine is $0
>> Crossover is $50ish with student pricing.
>> VMware can be purchased for $70 with student pricing.
>
> Not to mention Crossover Office is FREE (as in beer) to download and try
> out. FREE. If it works, *then* pay for it.
You can also try out vmware for free. It's always been that way.
>
> It does work, BTW, and quite well, especially for MS Office.
TravelinMan
JEDIDIAH <je...@nomad.mishnet> wrote:
> On 2005-07-12, Emmanuel Arias <emm_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Crossover Office?
> > Wine?
> > Vmware?
> >
> > This stuff will cost me close to $300 or more and what guarentee do I
> > have that it will work?
>
> Now you are just engaging in mindless trollery.
>
> vwmare is a virtual machine emulator. There is NOTHING preventing
> your apps from running under such a beast REGARDLESS OF WHAT IT IS.
>
> [deletia]
>
> If you had actually spent real money on vmware you would know that.
If it were a _perfect_ virtual machine emulator, you would be correct.
But all software has bugs.
In the real world, Virtual PC is also a virtual machine emulator - and
not all software will run on it. In particular, a few specialized apps
that write directly to hardware don't like the virtual machine. I would
assume that this would be true (although perhaps to a lesser extent for
those VMs running on x86) of any virtual machine emulator.
TheLetterK
> On 2005-07-12, TheLetterK <thele...@spymac.nosppam.com> wrote:
>
>>Lefty Bigfoot wrote:
>>
>>>Emmanuel Arias wrote
>>>(in article
>>><1121143307.2...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>):
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Crossover Office?
>>>>Wine?
>>>>Vmware?
>>>>
>>>>This stuff will cost me close to $300 or more and what guarentee do I
>>>>have that it will work?
>>>
>>>
>>>I don't bother, but have a good friend that has been using CO
>>>for quite a while, and is happy with it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Just reading the failures running MSOffice with xover office is enough
>>>>to scare me.
>>>
>>>
>>>Then don't. Run OpenOffice instead. That's what I do (along
>>>with NeoOfficeJ on the Mac), and both work perfectly for me. I
>>>can read/write word, excel, etc.
>>
>>For what he's talking about OO.o's Spreadsheet app isn't compatible
>>enough. Once you start dealing with Excel 'programming', your toast.
>
>
> I really doubt you are doing anything that advanced in the
> business school. Sure, if you were making engineering apps with the
> thing, that might be a problem. However, you are very likely not doing
> anything that complex.
>
> [deletia]
>
> Your drivel about $300 has already indicated that you are very
> likely a fraud.
Me? Where have I gone on about $300?
Jim Richardson
Hash: SHA1
On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 08:08:37 -0500,
JEDIDIAH <je...@nomad.mishnet> wrote:
> On 2005-07-12, Emmanuel Arias <emm_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Crossover Office?
>> Wine?
>> Vmware?
>>
>> This stuff will cost me close to $300 or more and what guarentee do I
>> have that it will work?
>
> Now you are just engaging in mindless trollery.
>
> vwmare is a virtual machine emulator. There is NOTHING preventing
> your apps from running under such a beast REGARDLESS OF WHAT IT IS.
>
DirectX games, and (IIRC) OpenGL stuff too. Because vmware doesn't allow
the kind of direct hardware access that the drivers for same, need.
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iD8DBQFC1Ue5d90bcYOAWPYRAoWlAKCiTGsPyWduwn9ru3XtiCHqX57WVgCg1bKF
zqXQQpjeHNDm1GTqdXsUB6E=
=Hszg
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
Homo sapiens, isn't
РясфMь++
CDF078.044...@news1.west.earthlink.net>:
Read what you typed. You just validated my point.
HTH
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
07/12/2005
at 03:55 PM, neilnew...@hotmail.com said:
>I think that'll be easier than using substitute/workaround Linux
>software instead of MS Office. There will probably be times when
>he'll be collaborating with other students in work and study, so
>that's another reason it makes sense for him to use OS X or
>Windows.
Au contraire, they will have problems sharing files if the use m$
office, because the Mac and windoze versions are not compatible. If
everyone uses OpenOffice then the file sharing problem disappears.
>To simplify things, let's imagine that his school only supports and
>recognizes work done to be down black ballpoint pens.
K3wl. How does that make it imprudent to use blue ink for his personal
correspondence. Dual boot is the equivalent of having two pens in the
same cup.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT <http://patriot.net/~shmuel>
Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the
right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to
domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not
reply to spam...@library.lspace.org
JEDIDIAH
>
> On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 08:08:37 -0500,
> JEDIDIAH <je...@nomad.mishnet> wrote:
>> On 2005-07-12, Emmanuel Arias <emm_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Crossover Office?
>>> Wine?
>>> Vmware?
>>>
>>> This stuff will cost me close to $300 or more and what guarentee do I
>>> have that it will work?
>>
>> Now you are just engaging in mindless trollery.
>>
>> vwmare is a virtual machine emulator. There is NOTHING preventing
>> your apps from running under such a beast REGARDLESS OF WHAT IT IS.
>>
>
> DirectX games, and (IIRC) OpenGL stuff too. Because vmware doesn't allow
> the kind of direct hardware access that the drivers for same, need.
That's why I carefully worded my response with the term APPS.
Games are not apps.
This guy is ranting about the problem experienced when trying to
GET WORK DONE. Playing is another issue entirely.
vmware is serious corporate software. Gamers are not their market.
--
If you are going to judge Linux based on how easy
it is to get onto a Macintosh. Let's try installing |||
MacOS X on a DELL! / | \
ray
back of the head. Like yesterday when my son-in-law was telling me about
his exercise in ridding the family computer of malware. Took him several
hours and four programs to accomplish the job. I've never had a problem on
my three linux home computers, and they are on the internet 24/7.
Ku Karlovsky
message <<1121327659.4...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>>:
> Oh, and you never did admit to your error when you:
Oh, and you never did prove anything when you:
> * I commented about something that often happens
Claimed that third-parties "often" provide temporary fixes for defects
in Apple's software while waiting for Apple.
> * I was asked to provide *an* example
> * I provided *two* examples
> * You jumped in to say I did something wrong
You never proved anything. You tried to move the goalposts from proof
to example. Prove your claim or STFU.
> I do not accept your excuse that the county you come from excuses your
Nobody accepts your excuse that two examples are proof.
> Not everyone in your country is as stupid as you - no
> matter how much you wish they were.
You're a hypocrite and you always have been.
neilnew...@hotmail.com
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz wrote:
> begin In <1121208917....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, on
> 07/12/2005
> at 03:55 PM, neilnew...@hotmail.com said:
>
> >I think that'll be easier than using substitute/workaround Linux
> >software instead of MS Office. There will probably be times when
> >he'll be collaborating with other students in work and study, so
> >that's another reason it makes sense for him to use OS X or
> >Windows.
>
> Au contraire, they will have problems sharing files if the use m$
> office, because the Mac and windoze versions are not compatible. If
> everyone uses OpenOffice then the file sharing problem disappears.
Thank you for clarifying that. I assumed MS Office files on both
platforms would be compatible.
> >To simplify things, let's imagine that his school only supports and
> >recognizes work done with black ballpoint pens.
>
> K3wl. How does that make it imprudent to use blue ink for his personal
> correspondence. Dual boot is the equivalent of having two pens in the
> same cup.
Agree. As I said previously, the OP can still dabble in Linux when he
feels like it.
(snip)
TravelinMan
neilnew...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz wrote:
> > begin In <1121208917....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>, on
> > 07/12/2005
> > at 03:55 PM, neilnew...@hotmail.com said:
> >
> > >I think that'll be easier than using substitute/workaround Linux
> > >software instead of MS Office. There will probably be times when
> > >he'll be collaborating with other students in work and study, so
> > >that's another reason it makes sense for him to use OS X or
> > >Windows.
> >
> > Au contraire, they will have problems sharing files if the use m$
> > office, because the Mac and windoze versions are not compatible. If
> > everyone uses OpenOffice then the file sharing problem disappears.
>
> Thank you for clarifying that. I assumed MS Office files on both
> platforms would be compatible.
Be careful about believing what you read.
Since Apple adopted the Office 97 file format (which would have been
around 1999, IIRC), I have never run into a significant file
incompability. THe only thing I've seen is slightly different font
rendering which might on occasion make text wrap differently.
Open Office, OTOH, has a number of reported incompabilities.
It's possible that the situation will change with Office 2005 which
adopts XML file formats. If MIcrosoft doesn't update Mac Office at the
same time, there will be a file incompatibility issue. Until then, Mac
Office is just about 100% compatible with Windows Office.
Juanita
Snit
iabdd15fgvh0n2i7a...@4ax.com on 7/14/05 11:25 AM:
> On 14 Jul 2005 00:54:19 -0700, "Snit" <kra...@cableone.net> wrote in
> message <<1121327659.4...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>>:
>
>> Oh, and you never did admit to your error when you:
>
> Oh, and you never did prove anything when you:
>
>> * I commented about something that often happens
>
> Claimed that third-parties "often" provide temporary fixes for defects
> in Apple's software while waiting for Apple.
>
>> * I was asked to provide *an* example
>> * I provided *two* examples
>> * You jumped in to say I did something wrong
>
> You never proved anything. You tried to move the goalposts from proof
> to example. Prove your claim or STFU.
While you may or may not agree with my examples and you even may want
to debate them, that is simply not what I am talking about.
Peter's absurd claim was that when I was asked to give "an" example and
I gave two that somehow I did not give enough - he did not make up the
sillystory that my examples may not have met what I said they did (of
course, that would be a false claim, too, but one that would not have
made him look *as* stupid).
>> I do not accept your excuse that the county you come from excuses your
>
> Nobody accepts your excuse that two examples are proof.
Again, if you want to *change* the topic and ask for more support, so
be it - but I was asked to give "an" example. Do you think that two
examples does not meet (and exceed) the request I was given?
If you do, of course, you are an idiot. Two *is* more than one. It is
really not a debatable point. (Well, you and Peter are stupid enough
to debate it... but it is not a reasonably debated point!)
>
>> Not everyone in your country is as stupid as you - no
>> matter how much you wish they were.
>
> You're a hypocrite and you always have been.
I welcome your support of your accusation - but since you are arguing
against me when I merely state that two is more than one, then you
likely will have a hard time supporting your silly claim.
Enjoy!
Ku Karlovsky
message <<1121385326....@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>>:
> "Ku Karlovsky" <nos...@nospam.nospam.not> stated in post
> iabdd15fgvh0n2i7a...@4ax.com on 7/14/05 11:25 AM:
>
> > Claimed that third-parties "often" provide temporary fixes for defects
> > in Apple's software while waiting for Apple.
> >
> > You never proved anything. You tried to move the goalposts from proof
> > to example. Prove your claim or STFU.
>
> While you may or may not agree with my examples and you even may want
> to debate them, that is simply not what I am talking about.
You obviously want to change the subject from your absurd claim that
third-parties "often" provide temporary fixes for defects in Apple's
software while waiting for Apple. You even try to obfuscate the issue
by pretending you had "commented about something that often happens".
> Again, if you want to *change* the topic and ask for more support,
Again, I'm ignoring your repeated attempts to *change* the topic from
your complete lack of proof that third-parties "often" provide
temporary fixes for defects in Apple's software while waiting for
Apple. You're an idiot who is caught in your own web of idiocy.
> > You're a hypocrite and you always have been.
>
> I welcome your support of your accusation
You repeatedly chastise others for ad hominem attacks while in the
same sentence make your own ad hominem attacks.You make silly claims
and then avoid the subject of your silliness. You're a liar and a
Snit
> On 14 Jul 2005 16:55:27 -0700, "Snit" <kra...@cableone.net> wrote in
> message <<1121385326....@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>>:
>
>> "Ku Karlovsky" <nos...@nospam.nospam.not> stated in post
>> iabdd15fgvh0n2i7a...@4ax.com on 7/14/05 11:25 AM:
>>
>>> Claimed that third-parties "often" provide temporary fixes for defects
>>> in Apple's software while waiting for Apple.
>>>
>>> You never proved anything. You tried to move the goalposts from proof
>>> to example. Prove your claim or STFU.
>>
>> While you may or may not agree with my examples and you even may want
>> to debate them, that is simply not what I am talking about.
>
> You obviously want to change the subject from your absurd claim that
> third-parties "often" provide temporary fixes for defects in Apple's
> software while waiting for Apple. You even try to obfuscate the issue
> by pretending you had "commented about something that often happens".
If you want to talk about *that* topic I am open to it - but I am not
talking about *that* topic because that is not the topic at hand.
The topic at hand is how Peter dishonestly claimed that I had done
something wrong when I provided *two* examples when asked to provide
one.
If you are mad about the topic change, talk to Peter about it. If
Peter did not accept my two examples as support he could have said so.
He did not. He opted to change the topic and claim I had done
something wrong by offering my two examples when requested for one.
>
>> Again, if you want to *change* the topic and ask for more support,
>
> Again, I'm ignoring your repeated attempts to *change* the topic from
> your complete lack of proof that third-parties "often" provide
> temporary fixes for defects in Apple's software while waiting for
> Apple. You're an idiot who is caught in your own web of idiocy.
If you are mad about Peter changing the topic, blame him. I am not
interested in getting into your silly battle with him... and I am even
less interested in having you blame me for Peter's silly trolling topic
change.
>
>>> You're a hypocrite and you always have been.
>>
>> I welcome your support of your accusation
>
> You repeatedly chastise others for ad hominem attacks while in the
> same sentence make your own ad hominem attacks.You make silly claims
> and then avoid the subject of your silliness. You're a liar and a
> hypocrite and you always have been.
I await your quotes to support your accusations... until then you
merely have *accusations*... ones you have not been able to back up.
Likely you are whining about my calling Peter Pecker when he repeatedly
made fun of my online name. If so, let me remind you that there is
nothing wrong with pointing out that Peter is doing this and
*returning* the "favor" at the same time. You may not be able to
understand this, but that is your problem - not mine.
--
"If you have integrity, nothing else matters." - Alan Simpson
ShredZ
stuck with gentoo for 4 years or so. Even had freeBSD and put a lot of
Joe 6-packs up to using linux and most even liked it. However, said joe
sixpacks ran into problems when upgrading stuff like X11 stopping to
work, p2p programs requiring reconfigurations or other weird stuff due
to mistakes in the said version thereof (debian broke on unofficial kde
package, gentoo messed up gnome ebuilds and glibc stuff, suse screwed X
after upgrading, only slackware and freeBSD behaved well, but then again
slack is or was an all DIY system anyway and freeBSD isn't for your
average user either).
So liking linux as much as I did, it still remained work to keep it up
to date. OpenOffice is ok, but it's spreadsheets isn't up to excel
standards. Sound apps are non-existing on *nix systems except one: Mac OS X.
Adding all that up I got a mac and have been using my computer again to
do various things instead of constantly tweaking the thing. I now own a
computer that runs unix and all the software I used on my pc (except
anti-virus stuff and some games). It's just a shame msn messenger
doesn't support webcams or audio, but then again, neither does it on any
other unix system.
I have through years supported and believed in linux breaking through,
but if people are gonna switch away from windows, I think mac (getting
cheaper after switch to intel or not anyone ?) would get a bigger cut
from the user's pie then linux.
Emmanuel Arias wrote:
> I'm a first year college student who is entering an accounting program
> at a major university. I am minoring in data systems which is a high
> level program that is designed for people interested in entering the
> information technology field as a management type instead of a
> programmer. So anyway, I have been using Linux for the better part of
> two years and I enjoy the freedom of using Linux. It hasn't always been
> a walk in the park, but I have been able to find programs and work
> arounds for most of the situations I have encounterd. One exception is
> itunes and Rahpsody. I managed to get iTunes to work with wine but it
> is extremely slow so I dual boot for those applications.
>
Had the same problem on decent sound apps.
> So now that I am a college freshman to be, I am encountering one
> obstacle after another just because I use Linux. It seems that the
> computing centers at virtually every single school I've applied to are
> only supporting OSX and Windows, and only certain versions of Windows.
>
> If that were just it I wouldn't have a problem but it is not that
> simple. For the accounting program there are various items of software
> that must be purchased and the textbooks and curriculum are based upon
> that software.
> In addition I have been told that I will receive many canned
> spreadsheet programs that will only run under Excel.
>
> While I can purchase all this stuff for very little money with my
> student discount, I find it disheartening that Linux is not included.
> When I asked the administration personal about Linux they handed me a
> sheet of paper explaining why Linux is not supported. Neither is any
> form of Windows 9x BTW and only certain levels of Windows 2000 and up.
> Understand this did not just happen at one college but at several when
> I attended their open houses.
>
> To be honest maybe this is a good thing for me because I am discovering
> that in leaving the sheltered world of a typical high school student
> and starting to enter the real world (I hate that term!) it is quite
> obvious that the world runs on Windows or Macintosh and Linux and Linux
> support is almost impossible to find.
>
> This has never been a problem for me when I lived in my own world but
> now that I have to interface with others in an academic and
> professional setting, Linux just isn't part of the system.
>
> So now I am looking at a new G5 system because I can't stomach the
> thought of using Windows.
> Maybe I am copping out, but honestly I can't see myself having to jump
> through hoops for the rest of my life just to use Linux.
>
> It's just not worth the time and the effort and the consequences of
> using a mostly orphan desktop operating system could effect my grades
> and chances for internships.
>
> Linux is just not worth it.
> Emmanuel Arias
>
Rick
> I had been using linux for years and years, had slackware, debian and
> stuck with gentoo for 4 years or so. Even had freeBSD and put a lot of Joe
> 6-packs up to using linux and most even liked it. However, said joe
> sixpacks ran into problems when upgrading stuff like X11 stopping to work,
An exaample, please. WHat upgrade stopped X11 from working?
> p2p programs requiring reconfigurations or other weird stuff due to
> mistakes in the said version thereof (debian broke on unofficial kde
> package, gentoo messed up gnome ebuilds and glibc stuff, suse screwed X
> after upgrading, only slackware and freeBSD behaved well, but then again
> slack is or was an all DIY system anyway and freeBSD isn't for your
> average user either).
I cannot speak for the other distros. But I have had very little problems
like you describe. And yes, at the moment there is a bug in YaST that can
reset your window manager. And no, I don't know if it is patched yet.
> So liking linux as much as I did, it still remained work to keep it up
> to date. OpenOffice is ok, but it's spreadsheets isn't up to excel
> standards.
How?
> Sound apps are non-existing on *nix systems
Define sound apps.
> except one: Mac
> OS X. Adding all that up I got a mac and have been using my computer
> again to do various things instead of constantly tweaking the thing. I
> now own a computer that runs unix
No, you don't. You have a computer that runs a uniox-like OS with
proprietary layers.
> and all the software I used on my pc
> (except anti-virus stuff and some games). It's just a shame msn
> messenger doesn't support webcams or audio, but then again, neither does
> it on any other unix system.
msn ?!?!? msn ?!?!??!!
aha HHA Ahah AHHA ahHA AHAHaha HAHhahA AHAHA Hah aha hah.
Whatever credibiility you just had flew right out the window.
> I have through years supported and believed in linux breaking through,
> but if people are gonna switch away from windows, I think mac (getting
> cheaper after switch to intel or not anyone ?) would get a bigger cut
> from the user's pie then linux.
>
> Emmanuel Arias wrote:
>> I'm a first year college student who is entering an accounting program
>> at a major university. I am minoring in data systems which is a high
>> level program that is designed for people interested in entering the
>> information technology field as a management type instead of a
>> programmer. So anyway, I have been using Linux for the better part of
>> two years and I enjoy the freedom of using Linux. It hasn't always been
>> a walk in the park, but I have been able to find programs and work
>> arounds for most of the situations I have encounterd. One exception is
>> itunes and Rahpsody. I managed to get iTunes to work with wine but it
>> is extremely slow so I dual boot for those applications.
>>
> Had the same problem on decent sound apps.
Define 'decent sound apps'.
(snip)
--
Rick
Richard Polhill
news:pan.2005.07.19....@nomail.com:
> No, you don't. You have a computer that runs a uniox-like OS with
> proprietary layers.
>
Not strictly true. Mac OS is BSD (FreeBSD based) on the Mach 3 microkernel.
That really *is* unix. There are proprietary additions, but that is what
real unixes are like; look at Solaris, AIX, HP-UX, Irix and (spit when you
say it) SCO et al.
It is very closely related to Next ie. real BSD with a postscript (actually
PDF in OSX) -based GUI.
Mac OS X really *is* unix, just like FreeBSD or NetBSD unlike Linux.
Whether or not this matters is debatable - Linux does *everything* a
"real" unix does.
--
Rich P
Replace .invalid with .com to reply.
Richard Polhill
> aha HHA Ahah AHHA ahHA AHAHaha HAHhahA AHAHA Hah aha hah.
> Whatever credibiility you just had flew right out the window.
Why? Explain that.
Peter Köhlmann
OSX is just as much "real unix" as linux is - that is, not at all
It is /functionally/ a unix, although apple decided to glue a non-standard
GUI on top. So for all matters, linux is more "unix-like" than OSX
--
I doubt, therefore I might be.
Liam Slider
> Not strictly true. Mac OS is BSD (FreeBSD based) on the Mach 3
> microkernel.
No, it's a BSD userspace, Apple's own proprietary API, and a heavily
modified Mach kernel....which isn't any standard on BSDs in any case. OS X
is a completely different beast than BSD, even if it took some parts from
it.
ShredZ
> On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 17:07:59 +0200, ShredZ wrote:
>
>
>>I had been using linux for years and years, had slackware, debian and
>>stuck with gentoo for 4 years or so. Even had freeBSD and put a lot of Joe
>>6-packs up to using linux and most even liked it. However, said joe
>>sixpacks ran into problems when upgrading stuff like X11 stopping to work,
>
>
> An exaample, please. WHat upgrade stopped X11 from working?
>
>
I upgraded SuSE from version 9 to 9.1 or something like that and X
wasn't starting up due to a library error which I managed to fix
manually, but no way the person who was using the system (and was quite
pleased with it) would've figured that one out.
>
>>p2p programs requiring reconfigurations or other weird stuff due to
>>mistakes in the said version thereof (debian broke on unofficial kde
>>package, gentoo messed up gnome ebuilds and glibc stuff, suse screwed X
>>after upgrading, only slackware and freeBSD behaved well, but then again
>>slack is or was an all DIY system anyway and freeBSD isn't for your
>>average user either).
>
>
> I cannot speak for the other distros. But I have had very little problems
> like you describe. And yes, at the moment there is a bug in YaST that can
> reset your window manager. And no, I don't know if it is patched yet.
>
Gentoo's ebuilds as are all distro's with 'automatic' upgrade systems
are still subject to human failure... so is apple's upgrade of course
(few months back an update broke java, but that's the only one
encountered so far) and since linux gets updated every minute, mistakes
are more common.
>
>>So liking linux as much as I did, it still remained work to keep it up
>>to date. OpenOffice is ok, but it's spreadsheets isn't up to excel
>>standards.
>
>
> How?
Some formulas are different, breaking compatibility and really messing
with the mind of anyone who knows excel. As much as I dislike word,
powerpoint and access, I consider excel to be a pretty decent app.
>
>
>>Sound apps are non-existing on *nix systems
>
>
> Define sound apps.
Apps to process sound files and make music. Ableton Live, Propellerheads
Reason, anything VST based, soundForge, even something simpler like
fruity loops.
>
>
>>except one: Mac
>>OS X. Adding all that up I got a mac and have been using my computer
>>again to do various things instead of constantly tweaking the thing. I
>>now own a computer that runs unix
>
>
> No, you don't. You have a computer that runs a uniox-like OS with
> proprietary layers.
>
>
As stated by others, linux is also just unix-like (it's not a real OS
eh) and as soon as one runs VMware, crossover office or something, it
also gets proprietary parts. Except on mac you can also run propriety
multimedia stuff like *sigh* decent sound apps or openGL stuff.
>>and all the software I used on my pc
>>(except anti-virus stuff and some games). It's just a shame msn
>>messenger doesn't support webcams or audio, but then again, neither does
>>it on any other unix system.
>
>
> msn ?!?!? msn ?!?!??!!
> aha HHA Ahah AHHA ahHA AHAHaha HAHhahA AHAHA Hah aha hah.
> Whatever credibiility you just had flew right out the window.
>
>
Yes, out the windows... unfortunately I can't just choose what IM client
everyone else uses and NO, I won't just change IM and stop talking to my
friends :)
I used gaim and kopete on linux and now am using AdiumX on the mac
(based on libgaim something something). Even Microsoft's own msn
messenger for mac doesn't support video and audio.
>>I have through years supported and believed in linux breaking through,
>>but if people are gonna switch away from windows, I think mac (getting
>>cheaper after switch to intel or not anyone ?) would get a bigger cut
>>from the user's pie then linux.
>>
>>Emmanuel Arias wrote:
>>
>>>I'm a first year college student who is entering an accounting program
>>>at a major university. I am minoring in data systems which is a high
>>>level program that is designed for people interested in entering the
>>>information technology field as a management type instead of a
>>>programmer. So anyway, I have been using Linux for the better part of
>>>two years and I enjoy the freedom of using Linux. It hasn't always been
>>>a walk in the park, but I have been able to find programs and work
>>>arounds for most of the situations I have encounterd. One exception is
>>>itunes and Rahpsody. I managed to get iTunes to work with wine but it
>>>is extremely slow so I dual boot for those applications.
>>>
>>
>>Had the same problem on decent sound apps.
>
>
> Define 'decent sound apps'.
>
> (snip)
>
Ableton Live, Reason, Cubase, SoundForge, ...
I don't mean to basher your beloved linux, it's very nice as a server OS
and depending on what you want to do with it could satisfy on the
desktop, but it can't do the stuff the way it should for multimedia
desktop use yet. And naming mplayer as the best movie player in the
world wouldn't be so far fetched, but that exists for mac too :)
Peter Köhlmann
> Rick wrote:
>> On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 17:07:59 +0200, ShredZ wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I had been using linux for years and years, had slackware, debian and
>>>stuck with gentoo for 4 years or so. Even had freeBSD and put a lot of
>>>Joe 6-packs up to using linux and most even liked it. However, said joe
>>>sixpacks ran into problems when upgrading stuff like X11 stopping to
>>>work,
>>
>>
>> An exaample, please. WHat upgrade stopped X11 from working?
>>
>>
>
> I upgraded SuSE from version 9 to 9.1 or something like that and X
> wasn't starting up due to a library error which I managed to fix
> manually, but no way the person who was using the system (and was quite
> pleased with it) would've figured that one out.
>
Well, you should stop lying now
I actually have upgraded from 9.0 to 9.1, 9.2 and 9.3
And no, there never was any "library error" (could you be more unspecific)
which would have prevented X from starting up
< snip more bullshit >
--
It is very difficult to prophesy, especially when it pertains to the
future.
Peter T. Breuer
> On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 17:07:59 +0200, ShredZ wrote:
>
> > I had been using linux for years and years, had slackware, debian and
> > stuck with gentoo for 4 years or so. Even had freeBSD and put a lot of Joe
> > 6-packs up to using linux and most even liked it. However, said joe
> > sixpacks ran into problems when upgrading stuff like X11 stopping to work,
>
> An exaample, please. WHat upgrade stopped X11 from working?
Troll post - please ignore. You should learn to recognize these by now!
It's crossposted to advocacy groups, and the style is of a long story
all about hardships that begins by saying how long he's been using X
but is changing to Y.
>
> > p2p programs requiring reconfigurations or other weird stuff due to
That's all NICE! Yummy yummy p2p reconfigurations, X11 reconfig,
upgrade, yum yum YUM! Fantastic! Gimmeee gummeeeee gimmmmmmmeee!
Peter
ShredZ
> In alt.os.linux Rick <no...@nomail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 17:07:59 +0200, ShredZ wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I had been using linux for years and years, had slackware, debian and
>>>stuck with gentoo for 4 years or so. Even had freeBSD and put a lot of Joe
>>>6-packs up to using linux and most even liked it. However, said joe
>>>sixpacks ran into problems when upgrading stuff like X11 stopping to work,
>>
>>An exaample, please. WHat upgrade stopped X11 from working?
>
>
> Troll post - please ignore. You should learn to recognize these by now!
> It's crossposted to advocacy groups, and the style is of a long story
> all about hardships that begins by saying how long he's been using X
> but is changing to Y.
>
the trees through the forest from flaming it all out eh. Stating my
experience in this field is what I did. And never once did I say the
system I use now is the only true system to use. Sticking to troll OS
2.0 with the beta bugs would be best for you though
Unruh
>Peter T. Breuer wrote:
>> In alt.os.linux Rick <no...@nomail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 17:07:59 +0200, ShredZ wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I had been using linux for years and years, had slackware, debian and
>>>>stuck with gentoo for 4 years or so. Even had freeBSD and put a lot of Joe
>>>>6-packs up to using linux and most even liked it. However, said joe
>>>>sixpacks ran into problems when upgrading stuff like X11 stopping to work,
>>>
>>>An exaample, please. WHat upgrade stopped X11 from working?
>>
>>
>> Troll post - please ignore. You should learn to recognize these by now!
>> It's crossposted to advocacy groups, and the style is of a long story
>> all about hardships that begins by saying how long he's been using X
>> but is changing to Y.
>>
>It's not a troll post for crying out loud. You people honestly can't see
>the trees through the forest from flaming it all out eh. Stating my
>experience in this field is what I did. And never once did I say the
>system I use now is the only true system to use. Sticking to troll OS
>2.0 with the beta bugs would be best for you though
Lets see. You post to comp.sys.mac.advocacy because you want help with
Linux. YOu post to comp.os.linux.advocacy because you want help with Linux.
Yes, sometimes things do not work. That happens, with all operating
systems. Sometimes it is a problem with the hardware/software, sometimes
with the person running it. In something like X which everyone uses, the
odds are hight it is the latter.
When someone asks for specifics (What about X stopped working) you do not
answer, but when someone accuses you of trolling you do.
So, yes, I would say that it is a troll post.
Rick
> Rick <no...@nomail.com> wrote in
> news:pan.2005.07.19....@nomail.com:
>>
>> msn ?!?!? msn ?!?!??!!
>> aha HHA Ahah AHHA ahHA AHAHaha HAHhahA AHAHA Hah aha hah. Whatever
>> credibiility you just had flew right out the window.
>
> Why? Explain that.
You have GOT to be kidding. What's the m stand for?
--
Rick
ShredZ
post just because I didn't include the exact correct error why X wasn't
starting it's because it's irrelevant to sharing experience with the
original poster from this group... a student like me who seems to have a
similar problem to me, but I guess you self-interested know-it-all
people can't get over this kinda of communication.
ShredZ
Peter Köhlmann
> Well be that as it may, the gentoo forums for one are loaded with people
> all getting different errors in similar situations.
I am sure of that.
Must be the reason why you chose SuSE as example
> I don't know what
> library it was cause I'm just a dumb troll who didn't use loads of
> operating systems in the past few decades and never stopped using suse
> after the error or shoot your mom in the a$$ in the dark ....
Yes, that seems to be about right.
You don't remember the "liibrary", you mix and match SuSE and Gentoo, you
claim to have repaired the error you don't remember what it was...
Yes, this sounds about right
Pray tell, are all Mac users such stupid liars as you are?
--
You're not my type. For that matter, you're not even my species
Rick
> Rick <no...@nomail.com> wrote in
> news:pan.2005.07.19....@nomail.com:
>
>> No, you don't. You have a computer that runs a unix-like OS with
>> proprietary layers.
>>
>>
> Not strictly true. Mac OS is BSD (FreeBSD based) on the Mach 3
> microkernel.
Actually it is a modified Mac microkernel.
> That really *is* unix.
Fine. Show the dtaes and references of when OS X was certified Unix.
> There are proprietary additions, but
> that is what real unixes are like; look at Solaris, AIX, HP-UX, Irix and
> (spit when you say it) SCO et al.
>
... and some of them are certified as Unix.
> It is very closely related to Next ie. real BSD with a postscript
> (actually PDF in OSX) -based GUI.
Yes? So? NextStep was not 'real Unix' either.
>
> Mac OS X really *is* unix,
No, it isn't.
> just like FreeBSD or NetBSD
Neither are they.
> unlike Linux.
> Whether or not this matters is debatable - Linux does *everything* a
> "real" unix does.
No duh.
--
Rick
Rick
> Rick wrote:
>> On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 17:07:59 +0200, ShredZ wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I had been using linux for years and years, had slackware, debian and
>>>stuck with gentoo for 4 years or so. Even had freeBSD and put a lot of
>>>Joe 6-packs up to using linux and most even liked it. However, said joe
>>>sixpacks ran into problems when upgrading stuff like X11 stopping to
>>>work,
>>
>>
>> An exaample, please. WHat upgrade stopped X11 from working?
>>
>>
>>
> I upgraded SuSE from version 9 to 9.1 or something like that
... something like that? Really?
> and X wasn't
> starting up due to a library error which I managed to fix manually, but no
> way the person who was using the system (and was quite pleased with it)
> would've figured that one out.
You figured it out...
>
>
>>>p2p programs requiring reconfigurations or other weird stuff due to
>>>mistakes in the said version thereof (debian broke on unofficial kde
>>>package, gentoo messed up gnome ebuilds and glibc stuff, suse screwed X
>>>after upgrading, only slackware and freeBSD behaved well, but then again
>>>slack is or was an all DIY system anyway and freeBSD isn't for your
>>>average user either).
>>
>>
>> I cannot speak for the other distros. But I have had very little
>> problems like you describe. And yes, at the moment there is a bug in
>> YaST that can reset your window manager. And no, I don't know if it is
>> patched yet.
>>
> Gentoo's ebuilds as are all distro's with 'automatic' upgrade systems are
> still subject to human failure... so is apple's upgrade of course (few
> months back an update broke java, but that's the only one encountered so
> far) and since linux gets updated every minute, mistakes are more common.
Ok... your credibility is 0 and your honesty quotient is approaching 0.
BTW, have you noticed how many crashed systems resulted from the XP SP2
install.
>
>
>
>>>So liking linux as much as I did, it still remained work to keep it up
>>>to date. OpenOffice is ok, but it's spreadsheets isn't up to excel
>>>standards.
>>
>>
>> How?
>
> Some formulas are different,
Yes? So?
> breaking compatibility
What does that have to do with the quality of the spreadsheet? Does the
formula work or not?
> and really messing with the mind of anyone who knows excel.
Does the formula work or not?
> As much as I dislike word,
> powerpoint and access, I consider excel to be a pretty decent app.
Yes? And? Just becauseOO.o Calc doesn't do things EXACTLY like Excel 100%
of the time it doesn't mean Calc is of lesser quality.
>
>
>>
>>>Sound apps are non-existing on *nix systems
>>
>>
>> Define sound apps.
>
> Apps to process sound files and make music. Ableton Live, Propellerheads
> Reason, anything VST based, soundForge, even something simpler like fruity
> loops.
Never heard of them.
>
>
>>
>>>except one: Mac
>>>OS X. Adding all that up I got a mac and have been using my computer
>>>again to do various things instead of constantly tweaking the thing. I
>>>now own a computer that runs unix
>>
>>
>> No, you don't. You have a computer that runs a unix-like OS with
>> proprietary layers.
>>
>>
> As stated by others, linux is also just unix-like (it's not a real OS eh)
Are you really that stupid?
> and as soon as one runs VMware, crossover office or something, it also
> gets proprietary parts.
Uh, no. VMware is NOT a part of a Linux-based OS. It is an app. The
proprietary parts of OS X are actually parts of the OS.
> Except on mac you can also run propriety
> multimedia stuff like *sigh* decent sound apps or openGL stuff.
Are you saying you can't run 'openGL stuff' under a Linux-based OS?
>
>>>and all the software I used on my pc
>>>(except anti-virus stuff and some games). It's just a shame msn
>>>messenger doesn't support webcams or audio, but then again, neither does
>>>it on any other unix system.
>>
>>
>> msn ?!?!? msn ?!?!??!!
>> aha HHA Ahah AHHA ahHA AHAHaha HAHhahA AHAHA Hah aha hah. Whatever
>> credibiility you just had flew right out the window.
>>
>>
> Yes, out the windows... unfortunately I can't just choose what IM client
> everyone else uses and NO, I won't just change IM and stop talking to my
> friends :)
I see. You will use whatever software they want, but they will not
accommodate you.
> I used gaim and kopete on linux and now am using AdiumX on the mac
> (based on libgaim something something). Even Microsoft's own msn
> messenger for mac doesn't support video and audio.
iChat does. Here's a clue. Ditch msn messenger.
>
>
>>>I have through years supported and believed in linux breaking through,
>>>but if people are gonna switch away from windows, I think mac (getting
>>>cheaper after switch to intel or not anyone ?) would get a bigger cut
>>>from the user's pie then linux.
>>>
>>>Emmanuel Arias wrote:
>>>
>>>>I'm a first year college student who is entering an accounting program
>>>>at a major university. I am minoring in data systems which is a high
>>>>level program that is designed for people interested in entering the
>>>>information technology field as a management type instead of a
>>>>programmer. So anyway, I have been using Linux for the better part of
>>>>two years and I enjoy the freedom of using Linux. It hasn't always
>>>>been a walk in the park, but I have been able to find programs and
>>>>work arounds for most of the situations I have encounterd. One
>>>>exception is itunes and Rahpsody. I managed to get iTunes to work with
>>>>wine but it is extremely slow so I dual boot for those applications.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Had the same problem on decent sound apps.
>>
>>
>> Define 'decent sound apps'.
>>
>> (snip)
>>
> Ableton Live, Reason, Cubase, SoundForge, ...
Heard of Cubase and SoundForge... don't use them or know about them.
>
> I don't mean to basher your beloved linux,
It's not my 'beloved Linux'>
> it's very nice as a server OS
> and depending on what you want to do with it could satisfy on the
> desktop,
It does for me.
> but it can't do the stuff the way it should for multimedia
> desktop use yet. And naming mplayer as the best movie player in the
> world wouldn't be so far fetched, but that exists for mac too :)
Goody, goody for you, the Mac and mplayer. I use Xine and Kaffeine.
--
Rick
Peter T. Breuer
> Peter T. Breuer wrote:
> > In alt.os.linux Rick <no...@nomail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 17:07:59 +0200, ShredZ wrote:
> >>
> >>>I had been using linux for years and years, had slackware, debian and
> >>>stuck with gentoo for 4 years or so. Even had freeBSD and put a lot of Joe
> >>>6-packs up to using linux and most even liked it. However, said joe
> >>>sixpacks ran into problems when upgrading stuff like X11 stopping to work,
> >>
> >>An exaample, please. WHat upgrade stopped X11 from working?
> >
> >
> > Troll post - please ignore. You should learn to recognize these by now!
> > It's crossposted to advocacy groups, and the style is of a long story
> > all about hardships that begins by saying how long he's been using X
> > but is changing to Y.
> >
> It's not a troll post for crying out loud.
It's a troll post. Merely xposting makes it likely so, and xposting to an
advocacy group makes it doubly so, and xposting to TWO advocacy groups
triply so, and writing in that
establish-my-credentials-then-claim-problems style makes it quadruply
so.
> You people honestly can't see
> the trees
Thanks, but I can. Much experience, etc. etc. I don't have any trouble
spotting trolling when I see it.
> through the forest from flaming it all out eh.
I know that anyone xposting to an advocacy group and a normal group is
attempting to start a loooong thread about nothing. Trolling. xposting
to advocacy groups for two different systems is a triple troll.
If you had the experience you claim, you would know that.
Oh, but you did know that!
> Stating my
> experience in this field is what I did
There you are - you trolled. There is no need to "state your experience
in the field" to two different advocacy groups and a normal group
unless you are trolling for a flame war.
Please desist.
> And never once did I say the
Whatever you said - and I didn't read beyond the first para - you
shouldn't be saying and you shouldn't be saying it HERE. Go start a
flame thread ONLY in an advocacy group if thats what turns your trolling
heart on.
> system I use now is the only true system to use. Sticking to troll OS
> 2.0 with the beta bugs would be best for you though
Sure. It's great for trolls. But I use 3.0 myself - I had to upgrade
from 2.1 in order to get ELF support.
> >>>p2p programs requiring reconfigurations or other weird stuff due to
> >
> >
> > That's all NICE! Yummy yummy p2p reconfigurations, X11 reconfig,
> > upgrade, yum yum YUM! Fantastic! Gimmeee gummeeeee gimmmmmmmeee!
Please desist from followups, and if you do, make sure to do it to ONE
advocacy group and NO MORE.
Peter
Peter Köhlmann
> Nah, linux users too, my gentoo box is still in the basement routing my
> internet...
Oh, I am sure that you have your very own gentoo server running
> Mix suse with gentoo where ?
Taling about a SuSE update and "the gentoo forums for one are loaded with
people all getting different errors in similar situations"
Which sounds, BTW, not vey credible, given that Gentoo is not a beginners
distro, and those running it tend to know what they are doing
> Both are linux distro's maintained by
> people or did I miss the higher order takeover here ?
Nope, not at all. Both are located at about the opposing ends of the linux
sprectrum. Which makes your claims of running a gentoo machine even more
specious
--
It's sweet to be remembered, but it's often cheaper to be forgotten.
§ńühwřŁf
Rick <no...@nomail.com> wrote:
Got a CITE? <snicker>
I installed it on my moms laptop from the free CD that M$ sends you and
it didnt crash anything.
There are some security issues with the Remote Desktop service that
needs to be addressed though.
[...]
> >>
> >>>Sound apps are non-existing on *nix systems
> >>
> >>
> >> Define sound apps.
> >
> > Apps to process sound files and make music. Ableton Live, Propellerheads
> > Reason, anything VST based, soundForge, even something simpler like fruity
> > loops.
>
> Never heard of them.
>
iMusic ;)
ProTools is very good on teh windows...
> >
> >
> >>
> >>>except one: Mac
> >>>OS X. Adding all that up I got a mac and have been using my computer
> >>>again to do various things instead of constantly tweaking the thing. I
> >>>now own a computer that runs unix
> >>
> >>
> >> No, you don't. You have a computer that runs a unix-like OS with
> >> proprietary layers.
> >>
> >>
> > As stated by others, linux is also just unix-like (it's not a real OS eh)
>
> Are you really that stupid?
Hes making you dance, puppet :)
> > but it can't do the stuff the way it should for multimedia
> > desktop use yet. And naming mplayer as the best movie player in the
> > world wouldn't be so far fetched, but that exists for mac too :)
>
> Goody, goody for you, the Mac and mplayer. I use Xine and Kaffeine.
Quicktime r00ls!!!111!!!!
ShredZ
correct. Try a KDE x.x.x released forum and see...
>
>>Both are linux distro's maintained by
>>people or did I miss the higher order takeover here ?
>
>
> Nope, not at all. Both are located at about the opposing ends of the linux
> sprectrum. Which makes your claims of running a gentoo machine even more
> specious
>
I put the suse system on a friend's machine because she was completely
fed up with spyware and the like on her windows installation.
Deliberately choosing what I thought was the easiest distro for such a
person to save her from text commands and compile times. I provided her
with remote access so I could help in case of problems. I followed
standard procedure for updating the distro after reading through some
suse docs but all I got after the reboot was a distressed phone call.
Ssh saved the day, but if I didn't have the gentoo experience chances
are it would've been a re-install :/
Just my way of telling the original poster here that he might be right
about running into weird problems.
ShredZ
Guess I should read up on newsgroup policies here. People are so much
weirder then computers :/
Peter Köhlmann
> Peter Köhlmann wrote:
< snip >
>>
>> Taling about a SuSE update and "the gentoo forums for one are loaded with
>> people all getting different errors in similar situations"
>>
>> Which sounds, BTW, not vey credible, given that Gentoo is not a beginners
>> distro, and those running it tend to know what they are doing
>>
> Honestly, read through some of those forums and you'll see that I am
> correct. Try a KDE x.x.x released forum and see...
>
What the fuck is a KDE.xxx release forum?
Do you even have a tiny idea what you are talking about?
And what does it have to do with X not starting, as you claimed?
Do you even try to get your lies somewhat consistent?
>>
>>>Both are linux distro's maintained by
>>>people or did I miss the higher order takeover here ?
>>
>>
>> Nope, not at all. Both are located at about the opposing ends of the
>> linux sprectrum. Which makes your claims of running a gentoo machine even
>> more specious
>>
> I put the suse system on a friend's machine because she was completely
> fed up with spyware and the like on her windows installation.
> Deliberately choosing what I thought was the easiest distro for such a
> person to save her from text commands and compile times. I provided her
> with remote access so I could help in case of problems. I followed
> standard procedure for updating the distro after reading through some
> suse docs but all I got after the reboot was a distressed phone call.
Certainly. You allow that I call you again a liar?
After all, I have used SuSE linux /only/ since version 5.3
Which is a lot longer than your OSX toy even exists
> Ssh saved the day, but if I didn't have the gentoo experience chances
> are it would've been a re-install :/
>
> Just my way of telling the original poster here that he might be right
> about running into weird problems.
Nope. Just your way of trolling. Not that you're good at it. But then, you
are a Mac user.
Those tend to be extremely stupid. Even denser than windows users
--
There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.
ShredZ
> begin virus.txt.scr ShredZ wrote:
>
>
>>Peter Köhlmann wrote:
>
>
> < snip >
>
>
>>>Taling about a SuSE update and "the gentoo forums for one are loaded with
>>>people all getting different errors in similar situations"
>>>
>>>Which sounds, BTW, not vey credible, given that Gentoo is not a beginners
>>>distro, and those running it tend to know what they are doing
>>>
>>
>>Honestly, read through some of those forums and you'll see that I am
>>correct. Try a KDE x.x.x released forum and see...
>>
>
>
> What the fuck is a KDE.xxx release forum?
> Do you even have a tiny idea what you are talking about?
> And what does it have to do with X not starting, as you claimed?
> Do you even try to get your lies somewhat consistent?
>
>
forums.gentoo.org site with people looking for help about stuff and you
can find a lot of stuff there. Of course I don't expect you to
understand most of what is said as was said correctly: gentoo ain't a
click around distro.
Since you dont really seem to be reading anything I say, don't expect
another reply, and if that was what you were going for: congrats, you
outdumbed me.
Richard Polhill
ShredZ <ssto...@REMOVETHIS.vub.ac.be> wrote:
> >
> > You have GOT to be kidding. What's the m stand for?
"Micro" So?
> >
> misunderstood
Sorry I though this ng was about Linux. Hadn't realised it was a
misnamed Microsoft-bashing site.
And no, I don't have any special love of the ignorant bastards who make
that software but it still doesn't follow that somebody posting here
"loses all credibility" because they have a desire/need to use the
Messenger (using aMSN?) network.
Fact is a *lot* of people use Messenger and you're simply not going to
convince all your friends and family to use something else (what? Y!?
ICQ? Don't make me laugh.) just because YOU refuse to have a passport
account. I find the best thing about Linux is that you can access *any*
network, you can use *any* protocol, you can do anything, ususally
without having to pay for the software.
So what you want is for people who use Linux to stick to the prescribed
protocols and apps, "keep the bloodline clean" and ensure that your
position as the l33t minority is maintained?
Well enjoy for now. Unfortunately for you the fastest growing desktop OS
is Linux and that simply means one day soon it'll be the other "normal"
OS and used by computer newbies everywhere. Where will that leave you?
Either embrace it or become sidelined. You'll have to find a new
cognoscenti haven to defend. I hear there are still developments in the
Amiga world. Suit you down to the ground.
--
Rich
Rick
For the pendantic, I'll change the line to read:
BTW, have you noticed how many crashed problem resulted from the XP SP2
install?
<http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/17/xp_sp2_glitches/>
<http://support.microsoft.com/?id=884130>
<http://microsoft.weblogsinc.com/entry/3238014134623324/>
<http://www.windowsitpro.com/Article/ArticleID/43798/43798.html>
<http://www.michna.com/kb/WxSP2.htm>
>
> [...]
>> >>
>> >>>Sound apps are non-existing on *nix systems
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Define sound apps.
>> >
>> > Apps to process sound files and make music. Ableton Live,
>> > Propellerheads Reason, anything VST based, soundForge, even something
>> > simpler like fruity loops.
>>
>> Never heard of them.
>>
> iMusic ;)
> ProTools is very good on teh windows...
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>>except one: Mac
>> >>>OS X. Adding all that up I got a mac and have been using my computer
>> >>>again to do various things instead of constantly tweaking the thing.
>> >>>I now own a computer that runs unix
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> No, you don't. You have a computer that runs a unix-like OS with
>> >> proprietary layers.
>> >>
>> >>
>> > As stated by others, linux is also just unix-like (it's not a real OS
>> > eh)
>>
>> Are you really that stupid?
>
> Hes making you dance, puppet :)
>
>
>
>
>> > but it can't do the stuff the way it should for multimedia desktop use
>> > yet. And naming mplayer as the best movie player in the world wouldn't
>> > be so far fetched, but that exists for mac too :)
>>
>> Goody, goody for you, the Mac and mplayer. I use Xine and Kaffeine.
>
> Quicktime r00ls!!!111!!!!
--
Rick