A specific case *for* GUI consistency
Snit
-----
Researches at the University of Washington have recently
developed a system, which for the first time, offers an
instantly customizable approach to user interfaces. Each
participant in the program is placed through a brief skills
test and then a mathematically-based version of the user
interface optimized for his or her vision and motor abilities
is generated.
The newly designed system, named Supple, starts with a
one-time evaluation of a person's mouse pointing, dragging,
and clicking skills.
...
[After being tested] Within a few seconds, the system is able
to generate the interface that takes full advantage of the
person's precision and speed when using a specific program.
From initial tests, the system narrowed the performance gap
between disabled and able-bodied users by 62%.
...
The team recently tested the system on six able-bodied people
and eleven people with motor impairments. A man with
heightened cerebral palsy used his chin to manipulate a
trackball and was able to move the pointer rapidly but
spastically. Using the results from the man零 test, Supple
generated a user interface where all buttons were larger than
the usual, and lists were expanded to reduce scrolling.
-----
Right now such a system would not work with any flavor of desktop Linux -
there is no standard for defining what the UI looks like. If Shuttleworth
is successful, though, and does very much of what I have been talking about
for years, then desktop Linux would be largely "there." Imagine having this
*choice* on Linux - a *real* and valuable choice which no other OS currently
offers.
I am for choice. I hope Linux grows so that this type of choice is
possible. Why do so many people in COLA argue *against* me... what is it
about choice that bothers them so much?
--
Teachers open the door but you must walk through it yourself.
Tattoo Vampire
> Why do so many people in COLA argue *against* me... what is it
> about choice that bothers them so much?
Why do you insist on rehashing the same old topics?
Wait, it IS the time of year for reruns...
--
Regards,
[tv]
Owner/proprietor, Trollus Amongus, LLC
...Do the swallows come to Capistrano to see the people?
Snit
1s3afl8947an8$.dlg@this.domain.or.that on 11/29/08 8:59 AM:
> Snit wrote:
>
>> Why do so many people in COLA argue *against* me... what is it
>> about choice that bothers them so much?
>
> Why do you insist on rehashing the same old topics?
>
> Wait, it IS the time of year for reruns...
When have I talked about this specific case? Oh. Never.
But I really do want to know why Peter Köhlmann and others in COLA are so
against user choice and power. It makes no sense to me. Are you for
choice?
--
"The music is not inside the piano." - Alan Kay
7
wrote on behalf of Half Wits from Appil Department of Marketing:
> I am for choice.
Does this mean Appil is crap and Linux is better
and I am free to choose Linux because it is better?
Thank God!
I like my Compiz and Ubuntu etc a lot better than expensive appil crapola
that appil corporation funded asstroturfers like you would force
on the rest of us throgh deceptive internet content spamming methods.
Appil along with Micoshaft are BSD Pirates ;)
and for that reason, I don't wish to use their software.
Snit
ShhYk.49927$cB5....@newsfe23.ams2 on 11/29/08 1:07 PM:
Your trolling is boring.
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing. - Unknown
7
> On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 20:07:14 +0000
> 7 <web_ha...@enemygadgets.com> wrote:
>
>> Appil along with Micoshaft are BSD Pirates ;)
>
> BSD code is licensed such that they who choose to use it are free to
> use it as they wish. The ultimate in choice, some would argue.
Now that you have told us what a "BSD Pirate" isn't, care to
guess what a "BSD Pirate ;)"
could be?
Sermo Malifer
>Why do so many people in COLA argue *against* me...
Because you're a narcissistic troll who posts trash just to get people
talking about you.
Snit
gl808b$o6d$1...@news.albasani.net on 1/21/09 1:23 PM:
Notice your snipping. Notice your lack of examples to support your
accusations. Now we can pretend you are sincere and I can ask you to
support your claims, just to see you dodge and run. Frankly the game,
however, is boring. Why not just stop lashing out like you do, above? Why
not work toward peace and understanding... try to learn from others and also
educate them?
I would love to see more people grow in this direction. It would certainly
make COLA a more beneficial environment!
--
The answer to the water shortage is to dilute it.
Clogwog
news:gl808b$o6d$1...@news.albasani.net...
Hi Don, is that you?
Fuck no, it's HPT nymshifting again!
Hi Wendy, Rafael, George, Roberto, Robin is that you?
Peter Köhlmann
> It appears to be yet another one of the many of High Plains Thumper
> nyms.
Hi flatfish
--
Ignorance is a condition. Stupidity is a way of life.
Snit
gl847k$oqr$1...@news.motzarella.org on 1/21/09 2:32 PM:
> On Wed, 21 Jan 2009 22:03:46 +0100, Clogwog wrote:
>
> It appears to be yet another one of the many of High Plains Thumper nyms.
Would not surprise me.
--
What do you call people who are afraid of Santa Claus? Claustrophobic.
High Plains Thumper
> The racist, liar and software thief Gary Stewart (flatfish)
> nymshifted:
>> of chrisv, High Plains Thumper, AKA Kutloze Scheefgepoepte,
>> Chelatobacter Ariomus, Cyanocobalamine-Hydrocobamine-
>> derivaat-injectiecyclus-met-zaagtandvormige B12-lijn, Hans,
>> Kadaitcha Man, Peer Geilzeever, Nicodemus Kwaadenkloot,
>> Gozewienus Smegmasmuller, Arsene van Tiethuysen, Deodatus
>> Kuttenvanger, Olivier Anusjager, Quirinus Pukkelpenis,
>> Gradus Kanusmans, Berend van het Aarshouweel, Driekus van 't
>> Lullenhof, Derk den Klotsoksel, Hentje Kotskameel, Arie
>> Drollenboer, Wullum Droogkloot, Peer van der Berigheid,
>> Arend Keuvelklier, Marinus Pielrukker, Karel Klootendraaier,
>> Dingeman Sneerbakkus, Kobus Binnenaars, Manus Simpelcont,
>> Jodocus Uytbuicker, Arsene den Rode-Apenkontjager,
>> Desederius van der Keutelenhof, Querinus van der Tiethuyzen,
>> Gezinus den Sluitspierbeul, Dingeman Sneerbakkus and others
>> schreef:
>>> "Sermo Malifer" schreef...
>>>> Snit wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Why do so many people in COLA argue *against* me...
>>>>
>>>> Because you're a narcissistic troll who posts trash just
>>>> to get people talking about you.
>>>
>>> Hi Don, is that you? Fuck no, it's HPT nymshifting again!
>>> Hi Wendy, Rafael, George, Roberto, Robin is that you?
>>
>> It appears to be yet another one of the many of High Plains
>> Thumper nyms.
>
> Hi flatfish
Exactly, lying accusations from two of the worst, prolific
nymshifters in the history of COLA.
These are examples of:
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/linux/advocacy/faq-and-primer/
[quote]
7.6 Trespasser Disinformation Tactics
13. Embarrass your opponent. Locate or create apparently
embarrassing information or detail and utilize it out of all
proportion-trying to create a scandal around it, to hijack a
thread or drive everyone to distraction.
14. Blackmail your opponent. Locate or create apparently
embarrassing information or detail and threaten your opponent
with exposure to force him to do as you want him to. This tactic
can be combined with the "Embarrass your opponent" tactic if you
can no longer get your way though Blackmail.
[/quote]
--
HPT
Quando omni flunkus moritati
(If all else fails, play dead)
- "Red" Green
High Plains Thumper
wrote:
> Rick Young (Flatfish) stated:
>> Clogwog (Rick Mather) wrote:
>>> Sermo Malifer schreef...
>>>> Snit wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Why do so many people in COLA argue *against* me...
>>>>
>>>> Because you're a narcissistic troll who posts trash just
>>>> to get people talking about you.
>>>
>>> Hi Don, is that you? Fuck no, it's HPT nymshifting again!
>>> Hi Wendy, Rafael, George, Roberto, Robin is that you?
Another false accusation from Rick, a prolific nymshifter. I am
not Sermo Malifer.
http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/2007/09/clogwog-troll.html
[quote]
Clogwog proudly admits to his other nyms and as source of
personal privacy violations through his other nyms. His list does
not contain his current nyms such as KUTLOZE SCHEEFGEPOEPTE, Hans
and nym-theft of chrisv. He falsely accuses by adding an
incorrectly identified nym "Robin T Cox".
http://tinyurl.com/5s7twv
[/quote]
>> It appears to be yet another one of the many of High Plains
>> Thumper nyms.
>
> Would not surprise me.
Not as surprising as your prolific lying, including nymshift as
Rhino Plastee?
[quote]
>> "Nope: I quote you directly and in context:"-Snit
>>
>> Proving that High Plains Thumper is correct, Snit does
>> nymshift as Rhino Plastee.
>
> Nope. Nice try though!
You wished!
Rhino Plastee states....
"Clearly this is a bigoted postion you are pushing, Wally".
http://tinyurl.com/6uhx65
Wally replies....
"Clearly for your argument to hold up you need to put words in my
mouth! tsk, tsk!"
http://tinyurl.com/9xm9ea
Snit shoots himself in the foot and replies....
"Nope: I quote you directly and in context:"
http://tinyurl.com/7hlnq2
ROTFLMAO!
[/quote]
--
HPT
DFS
> Another false accusation from Rick, a prolific nymshifter. I am
> not Sermo Malifer.
How many nyms have you shifted to and from on cola?
Sermo Malifer
How many false accusations have you made in COLA?
Snit
gl9scn$lpt$1...@news.motzarella.org on 1/22/09 6:29 AM:
You sure beg for my attention a lot.
--
Never stand between a dog and the hydrant. - John Peers
Clogwog
news:4978727d$0$3340$6e1e...@read.cnntp.org...
<chucks bone>
Fetch boy, fetch!
<chuckle>
--
High (Hoge) Plains (Vlaktes) Thumper (Neuker) is een sufkuttige dom
doos(je)!
High Plains Thumper
> <chucks bone> Fetch boy, fetch! <chuckle> -- High (Hoge)
> Plains (Vlaktes) Thumper (Neuker) is een sufkuttige dom
> doos(je)!
clogwog is een huilende kuttelikkertje.
--
HPT
cc
Snit posts all the time. You don't have to dig up months old articles
where he brings up years old topics. Just respond to a current
message. On the repetition scale he's knocking on Roy's door.
Snit
595d5adf-23b4-49b3...@a26g2000prf.googlegroups.com on 1/22/09
4:46 PM:
I repeatedly ask people to support their accusations... and when people can
actually rise to a conversation I respond to their questions, generally
quite patiently, even if that means repeating myself in case they did not
understand the first time.
--
"For example, user interfaces are _usually_ better in commercial software.
I'm not saying that this is always true, but in many cases the user
interface to a program is the most important part for a commercial
company..." Linus Torvalds <http://www.tlug.jp/docs/linus.html>
DFS
Don't know. Maybe a tiny few, in 15000+ posts in 4.5 years.
Why?
High Plains Thumper
> cc stated:
>> Sermo Malifer wrote:
>>> Snit wrote:
>>>
>>>> Why do so many people in COLA argue *against* me...
>>>
>>> Because you're a narcissistic troll who posts trash just
>>> to get people talking about you.
>>
>> Snit posts all the time. You don't have to dig up months old
>> articles where he brings up years old topics. Just respond
>> to a current message. On the repetition scale he's knocking
>> on Roy's door.
>
> I repeatedly ask people to support their accusations... and
> when people can actually rise to a conversation I respond to
> their questions, generally quite patiently, even if that means
> repeating myself in case they did not understand the first
> time.
Repeating, as in?
Snit: "You sure beg for my attention a lot."
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/027fc8d042f08bf9
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/1dddff78460ca82d
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/4b2e6e23a6638a7b
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/7851ac3ff0b80cd9
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/984ae4b3b1e1d005
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/ab52d66cd368cb4f
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/e9b06d16bb16330f
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/eff96f1472713b6a
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.advocacy/msg/f7acc0c3aca016bc
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/c224ec0067ae687e
Rising to conversation such as?
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/msg/96cd99fdc9af5226
Snit: "Comcast made it clear that problem users such as Steve
Carroll were a part of what lead them to stop supporting Usenet.
High Plains Thumper: "Comcast made no such alibis. Steve Carroll
made no such abuses. This is only a very sorry and futile
attempt by Snit to blame Steve's truthful exposure of his
trolling by attacking Steve."
Snit: "If you do not like that or do not believe it or just want
to be a pain about it then call Comcast and leave me and CSMA out
of your concerns!"
High Plains Thumper: "Oh, this is rich. Snit nymshifts as Rhino
Plastee to post his poisonous diatribe against Steve in CSMA,
blaming Steve for the demise of Comcast's direct support of
Usenet. Then crossposts to COLA and a slew of other non-related
groups. Now he asks to be left out. Snit made his bed, it is
time for Snit to sleep in it. Yup, the Snit Circus of
pathological lies continues ...."
Snit: "I *never* said you were not a liar. Please do not go out
of your way to prove it!"
High Plains Thumper: "Oh, so now I am a liar according to Snit.
Rather, the proof is on Snit. The burden is captured in all its
glory in this thread.
http://www.healthmad.com/Mental-Health/How-to-Spot-a-Pathological-Liar.171119
or http://tinyurl.com/85owde "
Steve Mackay: "Snit, the poster boy for pathological liars
everywhere."
Snit: "You sure beg for my attention a lot." 31 Dec 2008
Snit
49794838$0$3337$6e1e...@read.cnntp.org on 1/22/09 9:31 PM:
Instead of actually speaking to Comcast, you dishonestly denied Steve's
clear poor behavior and accused myself and others of dishonesty.
Wow.
Then you whine when I call you on your lies.
I feel so sorry for you... your lies, which you quote above, were noted.
You are pathetic.
--
Satan lives for my sins... now *that* is dedication!
High Plains Thumper
> High Plains Thumper stated:
Snit continues his accusations, blaming Steve Carroll for the
demise of Comcast NNTP Usenet service. Then shifts the blame,
accusing me of failing to speak directly to Comcast, how Snit
Circus like.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-9997051-38.html
[quote] July 22, 2008 6:30 PM PDT
Cuomo strong-arms Comcast over Usenet
Posted by Declan McCullagh
New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo has found a novel way
to shake down law-abiding broadband companies: accuse them of
harboring child pornography and threaten to prosecute them unless
they do what he wants. That might just happen to
involve writing Cuomo a hefty check.
The latest company to be honored by Cuomo's personal attention is
Comcast, which received a two-page letter on Monday threatening
"legal action" on child pornography grounds within five days, if
its executives failed to agree to a certain set of rules devised
by the attorney general. [/quote]
> Wow.
>
> Then you whine when I call you on your lies.
I only see one whining, and that is you.
> I feel so sorry for you... your lies, which you quote above,
> were noted.
>
> You are pathetic.
I think not. The truth is plain and bare. This troll's denial
is readily evident, one only need to follow this thread amongst
many others, faithfully archived in Google Groups and other archives.
Snit
I caught you lying. Deal with it.
--
"In order to discover who you are, first learn who everybody else is. You're
what's left." - Skip Hansen
Clogwog
news:49779d1d$0$32673$9b4e...@newsspool2.arcor-online.net...
Paul Hovnanian P.E.
>
> <http://thefutureofthings.com/news/5829/special-gui-for-your-eyes-only.html>
> -----
> Researches at the University of Washington have recently
> developed a system, which for the first time, offers an
> instantly customizable approach to user interfaces. Each
> participant in the program is placed through a brief skills
> test and then a mathematically-based version of the user
> interface optimized for his or her vision and motor abilities
> is generated.
>
> The newly designed system, named Supple, starts with a
> one-time evaluation of a person's mouse pointing, dragging,
> and clicking skills.
> ...
> [After being tested] Within a few seconds, the system is able
> to generate the interface that takes full advantage of the
> person's precision and speed when using a specific program.
>
> From initial tests, the system narrowed the performance gap
> between disabled and able-bodied users by 62%.
> ...
> The team recently tested the system on six able-bodied people
> and eleven people with motor impairments. A man with
> heightened cerebral palsy used his chin to manipulate a
> trackball and was able to move the pointer rapidly but
> spastically. Using the results from the man零 test, Supple
> generated a user interface where all buttons were larger than
> the usual, and lists were expanded to reduce scrolling.
> -----
>
So far, so good. Now the bullshit starts:
> Right now such a system would not work with any flavor of desktop Linux -
> there is no standard for defining what the UI looks like.
Except that Shuttleworth is calling for a UI which is completely
customizable. In other words not built to one standard. The idea
proposed, some sort of evaluation run to define the UI format is great.
But given that definition, it would be trivial to rearrange most of the
available Linux window managers to meet it.
Note: 'window managers', plural. We're not stuck with one. And it's an
easy task to add yet another, if needed.
> If Shuttleworth
> is successful, though, and does very much of what I have been talking about
> for years, then desktop Linux would be largely "there." Imagine having this
> *choice* on Linux - a *real* and valuable choice which no other OS currently
> offers.
>
> I am for choice. I hope Linux grows so that this type of choice is
> possible. Why do so many people in COLA argue *against* me... what is it
> about choice that bothers them so much?
Wait a minute. You were just complaining that Linux doesn't have a
single UI standard.
--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Pa...@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
The blinking cursor writes; and having writ, blinks on.
Snit
497A706D...@hovnanian.com on 1/23/09 6:35 PM:
Irrelevant. Why do you even bring it up? The idea is not to add window
managers, though I suppose you can if you want, but to make it so that a
system's UI can be consistent. Right now this is, I suppose, theoretically
possible, but *nobody* in COLA has been able to point to any distro that
does this or even provide a list of apps to be on a hypothetical distro!
Not one that is full featured.
If they could, of course, the definition of full-featured would have to be
quite limited.
>> If Shuttleworth is successful, though, and does very much of what I have been
>> talking about for years, then desktop Linux would be largely "there."
>> Imagine having this *choice* on Linux - a *real* and valuable choice which no
>> other OS currently offers.
>>
>> I am for choice. I hope Linux grows so that this type of choice is possible.
>> Why do so many people in COLA argue *against* me... what is it about choice
>> that bothers them so much?
>
> Wait a minute. You were just complaining that Linux doesn't have a
> single UI standard.
It sounds like you are confusing the concept of having a *desktop* be
consistent with the idea of all of Linux being uniform. If so, then so be
it, we all make mistakes. Is that what you did... if not, well, I am not
sure where you are coming from.
--
"The music is not inside the piano." - Alan Kay
Paul Hovnanian P.E.
>
> "Paul Hovnanian P.E." <pa...@hovnanian.com> stated in post
> 497A706D...@hovnanian.com on 1/23/09 6:35 PM:
>
> > Snit wrote:
> >>
> >> <http://thefutureofthings.com/news/5829/special-gui-for-your-eyes-only.html>
>
> Irrelevant. Why do you even bring it up? The idea is not to add window
> managers, though I suppose you can if you want, but to make it so that a
> system's UI can be consistent. Right now this is, I suppose, theoretically
> possible, but *nobody* in COLA has been able to point to any distro that
> does this or even provide a list of apps to be on a hypothetical distro!
> Not one that is full featured.
Please go back and read the article. Slowly this time. Move your lips if
that helps.
The 'idea' is to tailor the UI to fit the needs of individual users. Not
force them into a 'consistent' UI.
--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Pa...@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Speed is n0 subsittute fo accurancy.
Snit
Hovnanian P.E." <pa...@hovnanian.com> wrote:
> Snit wrote:
>>
>> "Paul Hovnanian P.E." <pa...@hovnanian.com> stated in post
>> 497A706D...@hovnanian.com on 1/23/09 6:35 PM:
>>
>>> Snit wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
<http://thefutureofthings.com/news/5829/special-gui-for-your-eyes-only.html>>>>
>
>
>>
>> Irrelevant. Why do you even bring it up? The idea is not to add window
>> managers, though I suppose you can if you want, but to make it so that a
>> system's UI can be consistent. Right now this is, I suppose, theoretically
>> possible, but *nobody* in COLA has been able to point to any distro that
>> does this or even provide a list of apps to be on a hypothetical distro!
>> Not one that is full featured.
>
> Please go back and read the article. Slowly this time. Move your lips if
> that helps.
>
> The 'idea' is to tailor the UI to fit the needs of individual users. Not
> force them into a 'consistent' UI.
The UI they use *would* be consistent. That is part of the idea. Do you
think the "personalized interface" would present different save menus for
each program? Different keyboard short cuts? Different button styles?
Of course *not*!
Maybe you did not understand what you read and thought that I was saying
systems should be consistent with each other... when my point, clearly, is
that systems should be *internally* consistent (or, really, that such
consistency should be a realistic option... I would not want that forced on
people!)
Sad, though, that in a post where you act so poorly and incorrectly imply I
read something incorrectly you show, clearly, that you did not understand
what you read.
Hadron
> Snit wrote:
>>
>> "Paul Hovnanian P.E." <pa...@hovnanian.com> stated in post
>> 497A706D...@hovnanian.com on 1/23/09 6:35 PM:
>>
>> > Snit wrote:
>> >>
>> >> <http://thefutureofthings.com/news/5829/special-gui-for-your-eyes-only.html>
>
>>
>> Irrelevant. Why do you even bring it up? The idea is not to add window
>> managers, though I suppose you can if you want, but to make it so that a
>> system's UI can be consistent. Right now this is, I suppose, theoretically
>> possible, but *nobody* in COLA has been able to point to any distro that
>> does this or even provide a list of apps to be on a hypothetical distro!
>> Not one that is full featured.
>
> Please go back and read the article. Slowly this time. Move your lips if
> that helps.
>
> The 'idea' is to tailor the UI to fit the needs of individual users. Not
> force them into a 'consistent' UI.
Oh my god.
Another man who does not know what "consistency" means in a UI sense.
So Paul, what about the details of this OSS CAD/CAM package your
"company" wrote for themselves to counter the "weaknesses" of the
commercial (closed source) offerings? You can get together with Liarmutt
whne he compiles his list of features DDD has which Visual Studio does
not.
(for the record, GDB as a debugger is second to none, but DDD is merely
a front end).
Hadron
> On 1/25/09 8:48 PM, in article 497D3272...@hovnanian.com, "Paul
> Hovnanian P.E." <pa...@hovnanian.com> wrote:
>
>> Snit wrote:
>>>
>>> "Paul Hovnanian P.E." <pa...@hovnanian.com> stated in post
>>> 497A706D...@hovnanian.com on 1/23/09 6:35 PM:
>>>
>>>> Snit wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
> <http://thefutureofthings.com/news/5829/special-gui-for-your-eyes-only.html>>>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Irrelevant. Why do you even bring it up? The idea is not to add window
>>> managers, though I suppose you can if you want, but to make it so that a
>>> system's UI can be consistent. Right now this is, I suppose, theoretically
>>> possible, but *nobody* in COLA has been able to point to any distro that
>>> does this or even provide a list of apps to be on a hypothetical distro!
>>> Not one that is full featured.
>>
>> Please go back and read the article. Slowly this time. Move your lips if
>> that helps.
>>
>> The 'idea' is to tailor the UI to fit the needs of individual users. Not
>> force them into a 'consistent' UI.
>
> The UI they use *would* be consistent. That is part of the idea. Do you
> think the "personalized interface" would present different save menus for
> each program? Different keyboard short cuts? Different button styles?
>
> Of course *not*!
It's astonishing that they STILL do not understand what a consistent UI
is.
Snit
In my comments I made it clear I was in reference to internal consistency
and not trying to make all desktops the same. Just amazing.
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
Paul Hovnanian P.E.
>
> "Paul Hovnanian P.E." <pa...@hovnanian.com> writes:
>
> > Snit wrote:
> >>
> >> "Paul Hovnanian P.E." <pa...@hovnanian.com> stated in post
> >> 497A706D...@hovnanian.com on 1/23/09 6:35 PM:
> >>
> >> > Snit wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> <http://thefutureofthings.com/news/5829/special-gui-for-your-eyes-only.html>
> >
> >>
> >> Irrelevant. Why do you even bring it up? The idea is not to add window
> >> managers, though I suppose you can if you want, but to make it so that a
> >> system's UI can be consistent. Right now this is, I suppose, theoretically
> >> possible, but *nobody* in COLA has been able to point to any distro that
> >> does this or even provide a list of apps to be on a hypothetical distro!
> >> Not one that is full featured.
> >
> > Please go back and read the article. Slowly this time. Move your lips if
> > that helps.
> >
> > The 'idea' is to tailor the UI to fit the needs of individual users. Not
> > force them into a 'consistent' UI.
>
> Oh my god.
>
> Another man who does not know what "consistency" means in a UI sense.
Well, to you folks, consistency obviously means using Windows. Because
you can't think in terms of data objects or methods.
Consistency isn't desirable for anything other than the simplest
functions anyway. The objects of a knowledge acquisition application
differ completely from those of an architectural CAD program. So
consistency in command keystrokes or menu structures makes no sense.
Even for simpler apps, a word processor is not a video player. Neither
are anything like a set top box for CATV. So what good is a 'consistent'
UI between these?
The strength of X Windows environments is that they are more easily
customized to suit applications or individual users. Which might drive
some users to distraction because everyone puts their 'File|Save' menu
items in different places. But at least we've got a framework that
allows us to put them where we want then.
--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Pa...@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Windows Freedom Day: a holiday that moves each year, the date of which
is calculated by adding up the total amount of time a typical person
must spend restarting windows and then determining how many work weeks
that would correspond to. -- Trygve Lode
Snit
6:51 PM:
...
>>> Please go back and read the article. Slowly this time. Move your lips if
>>> that helps.
>>>
>>> The 'idea' is to tailor the UI to fit the needs of individual users. Not
>>> force them into a 'consistent' UI.
>>
>> Oh my god.
>>
>> Another man who does not know what "consistency" means in a UI sense.
>
> Well, to you folks, consistency obviously means using Windows. Because
> you can't think in terms of data objects or methods.
What "folks" do you mean? Clearly you do not mean me, right?
> Consistency isn't desirable for anything other than the simplest
> functions anyway.
What do you mean by simplest functions? Using menus? Using buttons?
Saving files? Printing? It that is what you mean, and you agree that those
things should be consistent (unless there is a user-based reason to have
them not be, of course) then I think your view and mine are not that far
off.
Do you think desktop Linux will get there? Clearly Shuttleworth, who also
understands this need, is working on it.
> The objects of a knowledge acquisition application differ completely from
> those of an architectural CAD program. So consistency in command keystrokes or
> menu structures makes no sense.
Well, they still have a lot of the same basics:
* Print
* Quit
* Close a window
* Save
* Copy
* Cut
* Paste
* Preferences
* Hide (if the OS has that)
* Minimize
* Maximize
* Help
* Cycle through windows
* Select All
* New
Those are pretty common... and I am sure I left some out!
> Even for simpler apps, a word processor is not a video player. Neither are
> anything like a set top box for CATV. So what good is a 'consistent' UI
> between these?
To increase efficiency, reduce errors, speed learning time, increase UI
features, etc.
> The strength of X Windows environments is that they are more easily
> customized to suit applications or individual users.
How do you change, for example, the Print hot key across the X Windows
environment? How about changing the Print dialog across it?
If you can do that then you can have consistency across the computer. That
would be great!
> Which might drive some users to distraction because everyone puts their
> 'File|Save' menu items in different places. But at least we've got a framework
> that allows us to put them where we want then.
*Developers* have such a framework - what would be hugely beneficial is if
*users* had this choice. Right now they do not... and for some reason many
in COLA are grossly *against* user choice. Baffling.
--
[INSERT .SIG HERE]
Hadron
> Hadron wrote:
>>
>> "Paul Hovnanian P.E." <pa...@hovnanian.com> writes:
>>
>> > Snit wrote:
>> >>
>> >> "Paul Hovnanian P.E." <pa...@hovnanian.com> stated in post
>> >> 497A706D...@hovnanian.com on 1/23/09 6:35 PM:
>> >>
>> >> > Snit wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> <http://thefutureofthings.com/news/5829/special-gui-for-your-eyes-only.html>
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Irrelevant. Why do you even bring it up? The idea is not to add window
>> >> managers, though I suppose you can if you want, but to make it so that a
>> >> system's UI can be consistent. Right now this is, I suppose, theoretically
>> >> possible, but *nobody* in COLA has been able to point to any distro that
>> >> does this or even provide a list of apps to be on a hypothetical distro!
>> >> Not one that is full featured.
>> >
>> > Please go back and read the article. Slowly this time. Move your lips if
>> > that helps.
>> >
>> > The 'idea' is to tailor the UI to fit the needs of individual users. Not
>> > force them into a 'consistent' UI.
>>
>> Oh my god.
>>
>> Another man who does not know what "consistency" means in a UI sense.
>
> Well, to you folks, consistency obviously means using Windows. Because
> you can't think in terms of data objects or methods.
Huh? Err ... thats the apps job to provide the correct UI for that data
set. Consistently.
>
> Consistency isn't desirable for anything other than the simplest
> functions anyway. The objects of a knowledge acquisition application
I was right. You really do not know.
> differ completely from those of an architectural CAD program. So
> consistency in command keystrokes or menu structures makes no sense.
Are you mad??????
> Even for simpler apps, a word processor is not a video player. Neither
> are anything like a set top box for CATV. So what good is a 'consistent'
> UI between these?
Wow. You really do not know. This IS amazing. You dont see functionality
overlaps thinking at the higher level?
e.g ability to accept drag and drop the same way, search, open, save,
print, dialogs for browsing files etc etc etc etc.
Surely you can not be this stupid? Surely. You told us you wrote your
own CAD/CAM system. We are still waiting for a pointer to the source.
>
> The strength of X Windows environments is that they are more easily
> customized to suit applications or individual users. Which might drive
Apps are not written, generally, for "individual users".
> some users to distraction because everyone puts their 'File|Save' menu
> items in different places. But at least we've got a framework that
> allows us to put them where we want then.
WTF are you talking about?????????????????????????
And in a different place on each and every app that "induhvidual" uses
eh?
Crikey. Even High Plains Hypocrite would not type such nonsense.
Paul Hovnanian P.E.
Consistency with what? Each application has its own object model. The
methods for (operations on) each class don't necessarily make logical
sense whan applied to another.
You've been stuck in the MS Office paradigm of applications. Its holding
you back.
--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Pa...@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Senior staff curmudgeon.