What about CSMA / COLA makes people flame?
Snit
one another - I certainly do not hold myself above this ... I point out
others, um, weaknesses, as well.
I know full well why I like to... but I am curious why you feel you do (if
you do, as most of the regulars do) or why you think others do. I am not
interested in seeing people point fingers at each other... though that may
be unavoidable if people give specific examples. This I can understand - I
know when I make points I use very specific examples - the main reason so
many of the trolls in CSMA hate me.
--
If A = B and B = C, then A = C, except where void or prohibited by law.
Roy Santoro, Psycho Proverb Zone (http://snipurl.com/BurdenOfProof)
_________________________________________
Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server
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Unlimited download
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Roy Culley
<BE5793B4.91CE%SN...@cable0ne.net.invalid>,
Snit <SN...@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> writes:
>
> I am sure we all notice that many of posts in the groups are flames
> against one another - I certainly do not hold myself above this
> ... I point out others, um, weaknesses, as well.
>
> I know full well why I like to... but I am curious why you feel you
> do (if you do, as most of the regulars do) or why you think others
> do. I am not interested in seeing people point fingers at each
> other... though that may be unavoidable if people give specific
> examples. This I can understand - I know when I make points I use
> very specific examples - the main reason so many of the trolls in
> CSMA hate me.
COLA has been infested with what we call wintrolls for years. These
are posters whose sole purpose is to incite flame wars. A nasty
development a year or so ago was for some of these wintrolls to
crosspost to other newsgroups in the hope of causing more disruption.
You appear to be in the latter category. Starting crossposted threads
for the simple purpose of hoping to generate a flame war. If you truly
want to learn more about Linux and how it can help you and your
supposed users why aren't you requesting help from a more technical
Linux newsgroup than an advocacy group?
As the old saying goes, those who can do, those who can't teach. Your
posts seem to confirm that saying IMHO.
Snit
98u9g2-...@nw8000.swissptt.ch on 3/11/05 6:46 PM:
> begin risky.vbs
> <BE5793B4.91CE%SN...@cable0ne.net.invalid>,
> Snit <SN...@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> writes:
>>
>> I am sure we all notice that many of posts in the groups are flames
>> against one another - I certainly do not hold myself above this
>> ... I point out others, um, weaknesses, as well.
>>
>> I know full well why I like to... but I am curious why you feel you
>> do (if you do, as most of the regulars do) or why you think others
>> do. I am not interested in seeing people point fingers at each
>> other... though that may be unavoidable if people give specific
>> examples. This I can understand - I know when I make points I use
>> very specific examples - the main reason so many of the trolls in
>> CSMA hate me.
>
> COLA has been infested with what we call wintrolls for years. These
> are posters whose sole purpose is to incite flame wars. A nasty
> development a year or so ago was for some of these wintrolls to
> crosspost to other newsgroups in the hope of causing more disruption.
>
> You appear to be in the latter category. Starting crossposted threads
> for the simple purpose of hoping to generate a flame war.
I post in both - mostly so that Mac users can see the experience of a Mac
user learning Linux. Serves both groups well... if people are reasonable.
> If you truly want to learn more about Linux and how it can help you and your
> supposed users why aren't you requesting help from a more technical Linux
> newsgroup than an advocacy group?
Are you suggesting that the people in COLA are simply not prepared to answer
such questions? I am not looking for technical help, but reasons to
advocate it to my students / clients when they ask.
>
> As the old saying goes, those who can do, those who can't teach. Your
> posts seem to confirm that saying IMHO.
Who taught you that saying? :)
Seriously, if you have little respect for teachers as a whole, that is
really more of your issue than mine. In general teachers are very dedicated
professionals who get far too little respect. There are, of course, a
number of miserable teachers as well - and too little to monitor the
performance of how a teacher does their job. Such topics, however, are far,
far off topic for this discussion.
--
Picture of a tuna milkshake: http://snipurl.com/bh6q
Feel free to ask for the recipe.
Kier
> "Roy Culley" <r...@nodomain.none> wrote in post
> 98u9g2-...@nw8000.swissptt.ch on 3/11/05 6:46 PM:
>
>> begin risky.vbs
>> <BE5793B4.91CE%SN...@cable0ne.net.invalid>,
>> Snit <SN...@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> writes:
>>>
>>> I am sure we all notice that many of posts in the groups are flames
>>> against one another - I certainly do not hold myself above this
>>> ... I point out others, um, weaknesses, as well.
>>>
>>> I know full well why I like to... but I am curious why you feel you
>>> do (if you do, as most of the regulars do) or why you think others
>>> do. I am not interested in seeing people point fingers at each
>>> other... though that may be unavoidable if people give specific
>>> examples. This I can understand - I know when I make points I use
>>> very specific examples - the main reason so many of the trolls in
>>> CSMA hate me.
>>
>> COLA has been infested with what we call wintrolls for years. These
>> are posters whose sole purpose is to incite flame wars. A nasty
>> development a year or so ago was for some of these wintrolls to
>> crosspost to other newsgroups in the hope of causing more disruption.
>>
>> You appear to be in the latter category. Starting crossposted threads
>> for the simple purpose of hoping to generate a flame war.
>
> I post in both - mostly so that Mac users can see the experience of a Mac
> user learning Linux. Serves both groups well... if people are reasonable.
People often aren't. And many posters in COLA dump all crossposted
messages, becasue of the activities of idiots from alt.os.windows-xp and
the like.
>
>> If you truly want to learn more about Linux and how it can help you and your
>> supposed users why aren't you requesting help from a more technical Linux
>> newsgroup than an advocacy group?
>
> Are you suggesting that the people in COLA are simply not prepared to answer
> such questions? I am not looking for technical help, but reasons to
> advocate it to my students / clients when they ask.
You might be better advised to subscribe to COLA rather than cross-post
from CSMA if you want to participate here on a regular basis. Already a
number of your CSMA 'colleagues' have dragged their quarrels with you into
this arena, where they are not welcome - we have enough of that kind of
thing from the wintrolls, without them adding to it. You can always
unsubscribe when your task is completed.
>>
>> As the old saying goes, those who can do, those who can't teach. Your
>> posts seem to confirm that saying IMHO.
>
> Who taught you that saying? :)
It's well known over here. Like many such sayings, it may have *some*
truth in it occasionally.
>
> Seriously, if you have little respect for teachers as a whole, that is
> really more of your issue than mine. In general teachers are very dedicated
> professionals who get far too little respect. There are, of course, a
> number of miserable teachers as well - and too little to monitor the
> performance of how a teacher does their job. Such topics, however, are far,
> far off topic for this discussion.
True. Teachers ought to be respected more than they are, these days. Same
goes for a lot of the old professions though, sadly. General decline in
society, IMO.
--
Kier
billwg
an opinion, eh? Certainly a newbie who has adopted linux isn't going to
post here for any useful reason, if he needs help, he'll post in a support
forum. I know that some of the pro-Windows folk have a need to vent their
frustrations regarding the events that nettle them in their jobs that
involve creation of Windows application code. These people are constantly
annoyed by short sighted managers and others in their organizations that
constantly read articles about some mythical need for "cross platform
capability" and use up a developer's valuable surfing time with the task of
investigating the effort of moving some successful Windows application to
linux. The project invariably dies, but only after a lot of irritation.
It would seem that the best way to prevent this is to nip it in the bud, so
to speak, and so they practice their presentations in this forum. It may
look like flaming in many cases, but that too is the result of frustrations
in having to talk to idiots.
The most helpful aspect of the cola forum is that it is a source of tons of
quotes from linux advocates that show the folly of trying to make a business
out of selling software to such clowns. The marketers groove on this
immediately and side with the developers in getting any linux initiative off
the street quickly before it becomes more of a nuisance.
"
Mark Kent
> On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 18:56:41 -0700, Snit wrote:
>
>> "Roy Culley" <r...@nodomain.none> wrote in post
>> 98u9g2-...@nw8000.swissptt.ch on 3/11/05 6:46 PM:
>>
>>> begin risky.vbs
>>> <BE5793B4.91CE%SN...@cable0ne.net.invalid>,
>>> Snit <SN...@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> writes:
>>>>
>>>> I am sure we all notice that many of posts in the groups are flames
>>>> against one another - I certainly do not hold myself above this
>>>> ... I point out others, um, weaknesses, as well.
>>>>
>>>> I know full well why I like to... but I am curious why you feel you
>>>> do (if you do, as most of the regulars do) or why you think others
>>>> do. I am not interested in seeing people point fingers at each
>>>> other... though that may be unavoidable if people give specific
>>>> examples. This I can understand - I know when I make points I use
>>>> very specific examples - the main reason so many of the trolls in
>>>> CSMA hate me.
>>>
>>> COLA has been infested with what we call wintrolls for years. These
>>> are posters whose sole purpose is to incite flame wars. A nasty
>>> development a year or so ago was for some of these wintrolls to
>>> crosspost to other newsgroups in the hope of causing more disruption.
>>>
>>> You appear to be in the latter category. Starting crossposted threads
>>> for the simple purpose of hoping to generate a flame war.
>>
>> I post in both - mostly so that Mac users can see the experience of a Mac
>> user learning Linux. Serves both groups well... if people are reasonable.
Advocacy groups are entirely inappropriate for such things.
>
> People often aren't. And many posters in COLA dump all crossposted
> messages, becasue of the activities of idiots from alt.os.windows-xp and
> the like.
>
I'm always deeply suspicious of anyone cross-posting. There are almost
never reasons to do so, and there is certainly no reason whatsoever to
engage in trolling across multiple groups, as SNIT has done numerous
times. It's just bad behaviour.
--
| Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
Life is a serious burden, which no thinking, humane person would
wantonly inflict on someone else.
-- Clarence Darrow
Kier
> The main purpose of an advocacy forum is for the pros and the cons to voice
> an opinion, eh? Certainly a newbie who has adopted linux isn't going to
> post here for any useful reason, if he needs help, he'll post in a support
> forum.
Some of us just like to talk about Linux, too, without getting deep into
technical matters, or solving problems. As for what's useful, it may well
be useful to a newbie to hear varying opinions from regular Linux users,
who know more about the ins and outs of the platform.
> I know that some of the pro-Windows folk have a need to vent their
> frustrations regarding the events that nettle them in their jobs that
> involve creation of Windows application code. These people are
> constantly annoyed by short sighted managers and others in their
> organizations that constantly read articles about some mythical need for
> "cross platform capability" and use up a developer's valuable surfing
> time with the task of investigating the effort of moving some successful
> Windows application to linux. The project invariably dies, but only
> after a lot of irritation.
Bollocks. Cross-platform compatibility and interoperability should be a
given. There *are* other platforms than Windows, and information needs to
be freely available and exchangable. Managers who recognise this are far
from being short-sighted, in fact, they're ahead of the curve.
As for moving Windows apps to Linux, that's mostly taken care of by stuff
like Wine or CrossoverOffice.
Windows users seem pretty eager to take up successful Linux apps like
Firefox, OO.org and the GIMP (to name the three most popular). Not to
mention Thunderbird, and others.
>
> It would seem that the best way to prevent this is to nip it in the bud, so
> to speak, and so they practice their presentations in this forum. It may
> look like flaming in many cases, but that too is the result of frustrations
> in having to talk to idiots.
Yeah, it's pretty frustrating having to talk to idiots like you. Coming
out with nonsensical statements like this only makes your idiocy more
obvious.
>
> The most helpful aspect of the cola forum is that it is a source of tons of
> quotes from linux advocates that show the folly of trying to make a business
> out of selling software to such clowns. The marketers groove on this
> immediately and side with the developers in getting any linux initiative off
> the street quickly before it becomes more of a nuisance.
More bollocks. Really, you should start thinking and stop talking out of
your arse. the maybe you wouldn't get flamed for being a troll and a fool.
--
Kier
Snit
pan.2005.03.12...@tiscali.co.uk on 3/12/05 4:45 AM:
While I can understand their frustration, I can not control their actions.
I judge posts off of the merit I judge them to have - though I do not read
all posts in CSMA... not by far.
>>
>>> If you truly want to learn more about Linux and how it can help you and your
>>> supposed users why aren't you requesting help from a more technical Linux
>>> newsgroup than an advocacy group?
>>
>> Are you suggesting that the people in COLA are simply not prepared to answer
>> such questions? I am not looking for technical help, but reasons to
>> advocate it to my students / clients when they ask.
>
> You might be better advised to subscribe to COLA rather than cross-post
> from CSMA if you want to participate here on a regular basis. Already a
> number of your CSMA 'colleagues' have dragged their quarrels with you into
> this arena, where they are not welcome - we have enough of that kind of
> thing from the wintrolls, without them adding to it. You can always
> unsubscribe when your task is completed.
Fair enough - and that is something I should have anticipated... while I can
not control the actions of those that troll in CSMA, I can surely predict
it... and I knew they would likely troll me... and since I cross posted they
would use that as an excuse to disrupt both groups instead of just one.
>
>>>
>>> As the old saying goes, those who can do, those who can't teach. Your
>>> posts seem to confirm that saying IMHO.
>>
>> Who taught you that saying? :)
>
> It's well known over here. Like many such sayings, it may have *some*
> truth in it occasionally.
There are far too many bad teachers - and generally the administration knows
who they are but can do little about it. There simply are not enough people
looking to get into the profession - at least for many specialties.
>>
>> Seriously, if you have little respect for teachers as a whole, that is
>> really more of your issue than mine. In general teachers are very dedicated
>> professionals who get far too little respect. There are, of course, a
>> number of miserable teachers as well - and too little to monitor the
>> performance of how a teacher does their job. Such topics, however, are far,
>> far off topic for this discussion.
>
> True. Teachers ought to be respected more than they are, these days. Same
> goes for a lot of the old professions though, sadly. General decline in
> society, IMO.
Teachers, nurses, and others... yes.
--
"If you have integrity, nothing else matters." - Alan Simpson
Snit
8mtu0d...@ellandroad.demon.co.uk on 3/12/05 7:17 AM:
What criteria, other than cross posting (which we have both done), do you
use to come to the conclusion that I have been trolling.
It seems that most people have no objective criteria at all - they simply
use that term to mean the person has done something they do not like. I
would be interested to know if you are above that.
Kier
I wouldn't agree entirely on that point, I have to say. IMO, that's where
such discussions should take place, *if* most people behaved reasonably.
But as we know, it's often the reverse.
>
>>
>> People often aren't. And many posters in COLA dump all crossposted
>> messages, becasue of the activities of idiots from alt.os.windows-xp and
>> the like.
>>
>
> I'm always deeply suspicious of anyone cross-posting. There are almost
> never reasons to do so, and there is certainly no reason whatsoever to
> engage in trolling across multiple groups, as SNIT has done numerous
> times. It's just bad behaviour.
I think the threads Snit's been involved in spun off from already
cross-posted threads started by others. He seems to have had his interest
in linux roused by something he's read in COLA, and simply continued the
cross-posts as he asked questions about the suitability of linux for the
group of people (i.e his students) that he had in mind to maybe recommend
linux to. I don't think you can necessarily call that trolling, though
he's occasionally expressed himself badly, and been rather obtuse. But
then, by definition, newbies don't know what they're talking about, do
they - else they'd not be newbies, right?
He may be a troll in CSMA, or be considered to be one, but those who
accuse him of that don't seem to be better behaved. I've advised Snit to
keep his Linux discussion in COLA, rather than cross-post them - it
remains to be seen whether he will take the advice.
(Fup2COLA)
--
Kier
billwg
See comments below.
"Kier" <val...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.03.12...@tiscali.co.uk...
> On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 13:50:21 +0000, billwg wrote:
>
>> The main purpose of an advocacy forum is for the pros and the cons to
>> voice
>> an opinion, eh? Certainly a newbie who has adopted linux isn't going to
>> post here for any useful reason, if he needs help, he'll post in a
>> support
>> forum.
>
> Some of us just like to talk about Linux, too, without getting deep into
> technical matters, or solving problems. As for what's useful, it may well
> be useful to a newbie to hear varying opinions from regular Linux users,
> who know more about the ins and outs of the platform.
>
Now what kind of witless pursuit would that be? Haven't you something
better to do? Like watch an old movie? What kind of loser would want to
waste time discussing "ins and outs" of linux?
>> I know that some of the pro-Windows folk have a need to vent their
>> frustrations regarding the events that nettle them in their jobs that
>> involve creation of Windows application code. These people are
>> constantly annoyed by short sighted managers and others in their
>> organizations that constantly read articles about some mythical need for
>> "cross platform capability" and use up a developer's valuable surfing
>> time with the task of investigating the effort of moving some successful
>> Windows application to linux. The project invariably dies, but only
>> after a lot of irritation.
>
> Bollocks. Cross-platform compatibility and interoperability should be a
> given. There *are* other platforms than Windows, and information needs to
> be freely available and exchangable. Managers who recognise this are far
> from being short-sighted, in fact, they're ahead of the curve.
No, they are slow and dull witted, reading the wrong magazines. Look at the
linux track record in business!
>
> As for moving Windows apps to Linux, that's mostly taken care of by stuff
> like Wine or CrossoverOffice.
>
For the dilettantes, perhaps.
> Windows users seem pretty eager to take up successful Linux apps like
> Firefox, OO.org and the GIMP (to name the three most popular). Not to
> mention Thunderbird, and others.
>
I don't think that any honest review of this notion would come to that
conclusion, kier. A lot of techie people downloaded Firefox because of the
hype, but regular users didn't. They haven't even heard of the rest. For
that matter, just what is 00.org and Thunderbird? I know that GIMP is a
graphics package of some sort, but I don't know what it hopes to compete
with.
>>
>> It would seem that the best way to prevent this is to nip it in the bud,
>> so
>> to speak, and so they practice their presentations in this forum. It may
>> look like flaming in many cases, but that too is the result of
>> frustrations
>> in having to talk to idiots.
>
> Yeah, it's pretty frustrating having to talk to idiots like you. Coming
> out with nonsensical statements like this only makes your idiocy more
> obvious.
>
You seem to agree, then you totally lose the context of my post, kier! We
were talking about the pro-linux idiots. Try to stay on topic or else
clearly show that you are changing it.
>>
>> The most helpful aspect of the cola forum is that it is a source of tons
>> of
>> quotes from linux advocates that show the folly of trying to make a
>> business
>> out of selling software to such clowns. The marketers groove on this
>> immediately and side with the developers in getting any linux initiative
>> off
>> the street quickly before it becomes more of a nuisance.
>
> More bollocks. Really, you should start thinking and stop talking out of
> your arse. the maybe you wouldn't get flamed for being a troll and a fool.
>
Such a stereotypical answer! Thank you.
Steve Carroll
Snit <SN...@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> wrote:
Uh hunh... and what was your reason for cross trolling, uh, cross
posting? Oh that's right, so the Mac users can watch another Mac user
'learn' Linux... <shaking head in disbelief that Snit thinks people are
actually stupid enough to buy bullshit like this>. Which Mac users,
Snit? The ones that have killfiled you or the ones that have commented
on how you are the biggest troll ever seen in the NG? Or how about the
ones that are asking you to stop your cross trolling? Yeah, it must be
them. The Mac users have seen the experience of you 'learning' Linux...
IOW, they've seen how you are more interested into getting in trollish
arguments. The question remains: Do you somehow think you've fooled cola
posters? My guess is yes... reality shows otherwise, but then, that's
something you have no need for...
Peter Köhlmann
< snip >
> He may be a troll in CSMA, or be considered to be one, but those who
> accuse him of that don't seem to be better behaved.
That dimwits like TravelinMan or Sandman, even that retard Oxford call him a
troll does *not* mean he isn't one. In fact, it sheds light on his rather
stupid way of trolling
> I've advised Snit to
> keep his Linux discussion in COLA, rather than cross-post them - it
> remains to be seen whether he will take the advice.
>
I certainly don't want to have another idiot like Kerke or DFS in cola. Snit
can troll where he belongs to, in csma
In cola a mac-troll is as off-topic as any windows-troll is
--
I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.
Snit
It generally is the reverse... and I admit I have in the past enjoyed not
just the information side of the groups but also messing with the trolls. I
am growing weary of that... note that I rarely even respond to the primary
trolls from CSMA that follow me ... they are a sad lot.
>>>
>>> People often aren't. And many posters in COLA dump all crossposted
>>> messages, becasue of the activities of idiots from alt.os.windows-xp and
>>> the like.
>>
>> I'm always deeply suspicious of anyone cross-posting. There are almost
>> never reasons to do so, and there is certainly no reason whatsoever to
>> engage in trolling across multiple groups, as SNIT has done numerous
>> times. It's just bad behaviour.
>
> I think the threads Snit's been involved in spun off from already
> cross-posted threads started by others.
True - but I did also post some to both groups. Since I am new to Linux but
also a Mac advocate I felt it was appropriate. Mac folks may very well have
been interested in how someone who knows Macs well would take to Linux. I
did not - but should have - considered the affects of the trolls from CSMA
following me. They always do, so this was easy to predict... and my
mistake.
> He seems to have had his interest in linux roused by something he's read in
> COLA, and simply continued the cross-posts as he asked questions about the
> suitability of linux for the group of people (i.e his students) that he had in
> mind to maybe recommend linux to. I don't think you can necessarily call that
> trolling, though he's occasionally expressed himself badly, and been rather
> obtuse. But then, by definition, newbies don't know what they're talking
> about, do they - else they'd not be newbies, right?
Exactly - there have been mistakes I have made and poor assumptions.
Generally I comment that such things are possible - but some ignore that
disclaimer and take one sentence out of context and claim I am insisting
something is as it appears to me.
>
> He may be a troll in CSMA, or be considered to be one, but those who accuse
> him of that don't seem to be better behaved. I've advised Snit to keep his
> Linux discussion in COLA, rather than cross-post them - it remains to be seen
> whether he will take the advice.
For the most part I now have. There may be some that are still appropriate
for both - but with the clear result being that the CSMA trolls will do all
they can to disrupt COLA, this should be kept to a minimum.
--
"If a million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."
- Anatole France
Snit
BE585541.93BE%SN...@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID on 3/12/05 8:13 AM:
> For the most part I now have. There may be some that are still appropriate
> for both - but with the clear result being that the CSMA trolls will do all
> they can to disrupt COLA, this should be kept to a minimum.
Responding to my own post...
As proof of this, check out the post by CSMA_Moderator which is now being
cross posted to COLA... it is likely Steve Carroll's sock puppet... one of
the most disruptive CSMA trolls.
--
Picture of a tuna soda: http://snipurl.com/bid1
Feel free to ask for the recipe.
_________________________________________
Kier
> Ah, Kier, you are a soul-less drudge, eh? Such a humorless post! LOL!!!
> See comments below.
I don't find you very funny. And I'm certainly not a soulless drudge,
LOLboi.
>
> "Kier" <val...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:pan.2005.03.12...@tiscali.co.uk...
>> On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 13:50:21 +0000, billwg wrote:
>>
>>> The main purpose of an advocacy forum is for the pros and the cons to
>>> voice
>>> an opinion, eh? Certainly a newbie who has adopted linux isn't going to
>>> post here for any useful reason, if he needs help, he'll post in a
>>> support
>>> forum.
>>
>> Some of us just like to talk about Linux, too, without getting deep into
>> technical matters, or solving problems. As for what's useful, it may well
>> be useful to a newbie to hear varying opinions from regular Linux users,
>> who know more about the ins and outs of the platform.
>>
> Now what kind of witless pursuit would that be? Haven't you something
> better to do? Like watch an old movie? What kind of loser would want to
> waste time discussing "ins and outs" of linux?
Haven't you anything better to do that post lies about linux? That would
seem to be a far more pointless pursuit.
Obviously you never met a football fan. Endless discussion take place
about the noble game of football ('soccer', to you Yanks). Fans of old
movies talk about them, too, you know. Why should Linux not be discussed
by its users? *Everyone8 talks about their interests with like-minded
people.
>
>>> I know that some of the pro-Windows folk have a need to vent their
>>> frustrations regarding the events that nettle them in their jobs that
>>> involve creation of Windows application code. These people are
>>> constantly annoyed by short sighted managers and others in their
>>> organizations that constantly read articles about some mythical need for
>>> "cross platform capability" and use up a developer's valuable surfing
>>> time with the task of investigating the effort of moving some successful
>>> Windows application to linux. The project invariably dies, but only
>>> after a lot of irritation.
>>
>> Bollocks. Cross-platform compatibility and interoperability should be a
>> given. There *are* other platforms than Windows, and information needs to
>> be freely available and exchangable. Managers who recognise this are far
>> from being short-sighted, in fact, they're ahead of the curve.
>
> No, they are slow and dull witted, reading the wrong magazines. Look at the
> linux track record in business!
I have. It's good, and growing. You seem to be ignorant of the truth.
Linux users are not dull or slow-witted, rather the reverse.
>>
>> As for moving Windows apps to Linux, that's mostly taken care of by stuff
>> like Wine or CrossoverOffice.
>>
> For the dilettantes, perhaps.
No, in the case of CrossOverOffice, by pros.
>
>> Windows users seem pretty eager to take up successful Linux apps like
>> Firefox, OO.org and the GIMP (to name the three most popular). Not to
>> mention Thunderbird, and others.
>>
> I don't think that any honest review of this notion would come to that
> conclusion, kier. A lot of techie people downloaded Firefox because of the
> hype, but regular users didn't.
Have you any evidence that no regular users have downloaded Firefox? It's
been recommended more than once in mainstream Sunday newspapers and wide
circulation PC mags over here, to regular users. In fact, I posted out an
article in the Sunday Times recently which advocated the use of both
Firefox and Thunderbird (its sister email client), to a regular generally
non-technical readership.
> They haven't even heard of the rest. For
> that matter, just what is 00.org and Thunderbird? I know that GIMP is a
> graphics package of some sort, but I don't know what it hopes to compete
> with.
Then you clearly haven't been paying attention here lately, or are
outright lying. I'd settle for the second. The Gnu Image Manipulation
Program (to give it its full name) competes with most good graphics
packages for Windows, and has been discussed here at length. The 2.4
release is scheduled to have full colour management, which will bring it
more or less up to the full Photoshop level - it's almost there now in
other respects, and doesn't cost the earth, either. it's certain the equal
of PaintShop Pro, a very popular Windows app, which many regular Windows
users will be familiar with.
OO.org is OpenOffice.org, the Linux/Open source flagship office suite,
derived from StarOffice. Thunderbird is an email app which knocks spots of
OE. If they've heard of Firefox, they'll have heard of Thunderbird, too -
they can be downloaded from much the same place.
>
>>>
>>> It would seem that the best way to prevent this is to nip it in the bud,
>>> so
>>> to speak, and so they practice their presentations in this forum. It may
>>> look like flaming in many cases, but that too is the result of
>>> frustrations
>>> in having to talk to idiots.
>>
>> Yeah, it's pretty frustrating having to talk to idiots like you. Coming
>> out with nonsensical statements like this only makes your idiocy more
>> obvious.
>>
> You seem to agree, then you totally lose the context of my post, kier! We
> were talking about the pro-linux idiots. Try to stay on topic or else
> clearly show that you are changing it.
Don't get clever with me, bill. You were being insulting. I just turned
you insult back on you. See, I don't accept your incorreect judgement of
linux advocates in the workplace as idiots.
>
>>>
>>> The most helpful aspect of the cola forum is that it is a source of tons
>>> of
>>> quotes from linux advocates that show the folly of trying to make a
>>> business
>>> out of selling software to such clowns. The marketers groove on this
>>> immediately and side with the developers in getting any linux initiative
>>> off
>>> the street quickly before it becomes more of a nuisance.
>>
>> More bollocks. Really, you should start thinking and stop talking out of
>> your arse. the maybe you wouldn't get flamed for being a troll and a fool.
>>
> Such a stereotypical answer! Thank you.
Maybe you should start thinking and stop being an idiot. You're the
stereotype here, not me. I'm speaing the truth, while you lie.
--
Kier
Snit
noone-116365....@comcast.dca.giganews.com on 3/12/05 8:00 AM:
>>> You might be better advised to subscribe to COLA rather than cross-post
>>> from CSMA if you want to participate here on a regular basis. Already a
>>> number of your CSMA 'colleagues' have dragged their quarrels with you into
>>> this arena, where they are not welcome - we have enough of that kind of
>>> thing from the wintrolls, without them adding to it. You can always
>>> unsubscribe when your task is completed.
>>
>> Fair enough - and that is something I should have anticipated... while I can
>> not control the actions of those that troll in CSMA, I can surely predict
>> it... and I knew they would likely troll me... and since I cross posted they
>> would use that as an excuse to disrupt both groups instead of just one.
And, as if to prove my point, Steve Carroll chimes in with:
>
> Uh hunh... and what was your reason for cross trolling, uh, cross
> posting? Oh that's right, so the Mac users can watch another Mac user
> 'learn' Linux... <shaking head in disbelief that Snit thinks people are
> actually stupid enough to buy bullshit like this>. Which Mac users,
> Snit? The ones that have killfiled you or the ones that have commented
> on how you are the biggest troll ever seen in the NG? Or how about the
> ones that are asking you to stop your cross trolling? Yeah, it must be
> them. The Mac users have seen the experience of you 'learning' Linux...
> IOW, they've seen how you are more interested into getting in trollish
> arguments. The question remains: Do you somehow think you've fooled cola
> posters? My guess is yes... reality shows otherwise, but then, that's
> something you have no need for...
_________________________________________
Steve Carroll
Kier <val...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
When you're right, you're right, huh? Well, you're wrong...
Here's a sampling from just the last few days of the cross-posted
threads Snit started:
1 - Mandrake disappointment
2 - Working with Linux on a PC
3 - Got Linux to boot!
4 - Article: From GUI-Avoider to OS X
5 - First impressions of Knoppix
6 - What about CSMA / COLA makes people flame?
> He seems to have had his interest
> in linux roused by something he's read in COLA, and simply continued the
> cross-posts as he asked questions about the suitability of linux for the
> group of people (i.e his students) that he had in mind to maybe recommend
> linux to.
> I don't think you can necessarily call that trolling,
You're as wrong here as you are above. People that have interfaced with
Snit for any length of time already know he's trolling. That you're not
able to spot it yet doesn't change a thing. If he is, as he says, there
only to learn, why is he spending SO much time arguing with cola
posters? Snit's MO is to give you just enough to make you think he's a
reasonable poster. If he actually were a reasonable poster, why have so
many killfiled him and commented on what a disingenuous troll he is?
> though
> he's occasionally expressed himself badly, and been rather obtuse. But
> then, by definition, newbies don't know what they're talking about, do
> they - else they'd not be newbies, right?
>
> He may be a troll in CSMA, or be considered to be one, but those who
> accuse him of that don't seem to be better behaved.
Yeah, it's funny how a troll gets treated, huh? Suppose there is
virtually an entire NG that feels he is a troll? I predict that someday
there will be two.
> I've advised Snit to
> keep his Linux discussion in COLA, rather than cross-post them - it
> remains to be seen whether he will take the advice.
I saw... and he gave you a line of bullshit as a thank you. Take a look,
the last one on the list above certainly shows that Snit didn't
anticipate any problems with his cross-posting, doesn't it? And it had
so much to do with his stated reason for cross-posting, didn't it? Pull
the other one. You should be thankful, though... it took him awhile in
csma to get the tactics down that he's so quickly using here... you guys
appear to be on the accelerated program.
> (Fup2COLA)
Kier
Frankly, I would just have dumped CSMA altogether if I were you. It's not
worth the aggro. Move on and leave them to crow about their 'victory' in
removing you - why should you care what they think?
>>>> People often aren't. And many posters in COLA dump all crossposted
>>>> messages, becasue of the activities of idiots from alt.os.windows-xp
>>>> and the like.
>>>
>>> I'm always deeply suspicious of anyone cross-posting. There are
>>> almost never reasons to do so, and there is certainly no reason
>>> whatsoever to engage in trolling across multiple groups, as SNIT has
>>> done numerous times. It's just bad behaviour.
>>
>> I think the threads Snit's been involved in spun off from already
>> cross-posted threads started by others.
>
> True - but I did also post some to both groups. Since I am new to Linux
> but also a Mac advocate I felt it was appropriate. Mac folks may very
> well have been interested in how someone who knows Macs well would take
> to Linux. I did not - but should have - considered the affects of the
> trolls from CSMA following me. They always do, so this was easy to
> predict... and my mistake.
You're forgiven - at least by me.
>> He seems to have had his interest in linux roused by something he's
>> read in COLA, and simply continued the cross-posts as he asked
>> questions about the suitability of linux for the group of people (i.e
>> his students) that he had in mind to maybe recommend linux to. I don't
>> think you can necessarily call that trolling, though he's occasionally
>> expressed himself badly, and been rather obtuse. But then, by
>> definition, newbies don't know what they're talking about, do they -
>> else they'd not be newbies, right?
>
> Exactly - there have been mistakes I have made and poor assumptions.
> Generally I comment that such things are possible - but some ignore that
> disclaimer and take one sentence out of context and claim I am insisting
> something is as it appears to me.
It happens. Not everyone understands things in exactly the same way, and
it's easier to misinterpret what a poster is actually trying to convey
than a lot of people realise, IMO. It's best not to prolong such
misunderstandings with tit-for-tat replies just to have the last word.
Better to let it drop if it happens. Nobody's perfect.
>> He may be a troll in CSMA, or be considered to be one, but those who
>> accuse him of that don't seem to be better behaved. I've advised Snit
>> to keep his Linux discussion in COLA, rather than cross-post them - it
>> remains to be seen whether he will take the advice.
>
> For the most part I now have. There may be some that are still
> appropriate for both - but with the clear result being that the CSMA
> trolls will do all they can to disrupt COLA, this should be kept to a
> minimum.
Agreed.
--
Kier
Kier
> "Snit" <SN...@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> wrote in post
> BE585541.93BE%SN...@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID on 3/12/05 8:13 AM:
>
>> For the most part I now have. There may be some that are still appropriate
>> for both - but with the clear result being that the CSMA trolls will do all
>> they can to disrupt COLA, this should be kept to a minimum.
>
> Responding to my own post...
>
> As proof of this, check out the post by CSMA_Moderator which is now being
> cross posted to COLA... it is likely Steve Carroll's sock puppet... one of
> the most disruptive CSMA trolls.
Yeah, we've got a so-called 'moderator', one kerke by real name, AKA
'windows_MVP' and 'Peter Bilt'. Seldom worth responding to, though I admit
I do on occasion, just to kick them up their worthless collective
backsides.
--
Kier
Steve Carroll
> On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 14:50:15 +0000, billwg wrote:
>
> > Ah, Kier, you are a soul-less drudge, eh? Such a humorless post! LOL!!!
> > See comments below.
>
> I don't find you very funny. And I'm certainly not a soulless drudge,
> LOLboi.
>
> >
> > "Kier" <val...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:pan.2005.03.12...@tiscali.co.uk...
> >> On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 13:50:21 +0000, billwg wrote:
> >>
> >>> The main purpose of an advocacy forum is for the pros and the cons to
> >>> voice
> >>> an opinion, eh? Certainly a newbie who has adopted linux isn't going to
> >>> post here for any useful reason, if he needs help, he'll post in a
> >>> support
> >>> forum.
> >>
> >> Some of us just like to talk about Linux, too, without getting deep into
> >> technical matters, or solving problems. As for what's useful, it may well
> >> be useful to a newbie to hear varying opinions from regular Linux users,
> >> who know more about the ins and outs of the platform.
> >>
> > Now what kind of witless pursuit would that be? Haven't you something
> > better to do? Like watch an old movie? What kind of loser would want to
> > waste time discussing "ins and outs" of linux?
>
> Haven't you anything better to do that post lies about linux?
How come you haven't asked Snit this question?
Snit
LOL... I did that for a year with Steve. He eventually broke down, admitted
he was dishonestly and purposely reinterpreting my posts and using sock
puppets to attack me. He then sunk to bigoted attacks... and then from
there just sunk to name calling and even making up quotes from me... or just
repeatedly attributing his own quotes to me. By then the fun was leaving -
I would post to him and he would merely snip the whole thing and comment
with his vile or offer one of his patented "translation trolling" games
where he would tell me what I "really" meant. Once the trolls combine
running from conversation with an insistence on responding, they cease to be
as much fun.
You can see where I messed with Rick for a bit when he started to troll
me... he did not last as long as Steve did. I suppose I should give Steve
credit for that. :)
Elizabot v2.0.2
<snip>
>
> Fair enough - and that is something I should have anticipated... while I can
> not control the actions of those that troll in CSMA, I can surely predict
> it... and I knew they would likely troll me... and since I cross posted they
> would use that as an excuse to disrupt both groups instead of just one.
Don't play "Mr. Innocent", Snit. You have *bragged* about hitting your
goal of posts talking about you.
In April of 2004 you wrote:
In article <BCAC6CB3.4A3F6%sn...@nospam-cableone.net>,
尬≡ <s...@nospam-cableone.net> wrote:
I have hit my goal of posts talking about me... so there is no need for
anything else.
Stats from the last week (according to Google):
Posts from me: 59
Posts with the word "snit" in them: 661
Total posts: 2420
Not including my posts, you guys have pushed me to over 25% of the topic
count in this group and 10 posts about me for every post I make[1].
Next time I am going for a bigger bet... this was too easy. I did
consider going for double or nothing, but I doubt you have the endurance
to keep it up that long.
I do, however, get bonus points based on the reaction to this message...
so don't be shy... :)
------------------------------ ------------------------------ ----------
[1] I know you have trouble with math, so let me help you with some
calculations:
Taking out my posts from the count:
661 - 59 = 602 (number of "snit" posts not by snit)
2420 - 59 = 2361 (total number of posts by people other than snit)
602 / 2361 = 25.49%
ALSO:
59 Number of time I posted
602 Number of times someone else used my name
For every post of mine, there were more than 10 from others about me.
ALSO:
2 + 2 = 4
if A = B and B = C then A = C
(just figured you needed the help with those two)
*******
or
>>>>As the old saying goes, those who can do, those who can't teach. Your
>>>>posts seem to confirm that saying IMHO.
>>>
>>>Who taught you that saying? :)
>>
>>It's well known over here. Like many such sayings, it may have *some*
>>truth in it occasionally.
>
>
> There are far too many bad teachers - and generally the administration knows
> who they are but can do little about it. There simply are not enough people
> looking to get into the profession - at least for many specialties.
So now you are back to talking about teachers. Before you wrote:
"There are, of course, a number of miserable teachers as well - and too
little to monitor the performance of how a teacher does their job. Such
topics, however, are far, far off topic for this discussion."
I'll be happy to direct anyone who is reading this post to your last
attempt to cross post a troll to the teachers chat group, and how it
failed to generate any hits from that newsgroup.
>>>Seriously, if you have little respect for teachers as a whole, that is
>>>really more of your issue than mine. In general teachers are very dedicated
>>>professionals who get far too little respect. There are, of course, a
>>>number of miserable teachers as well - and too little to monitor the
>>>performance of how a teacher does their job. Such topics, however, are far,
>>>far off topic for this discussion.
>>
>>True. Teachers ought to be respected more than they are, these days. Same
>>goes for a lot of the old professions though, sadly. General decline in
>>society, IMO.
>
>
> Teachers, nurses, and others... yes.
How much respect do teachers (who are "currently not fully certified"
-your words- like you) merit?
--
By responding to Elizabot v2.0.2 you implicitly agree to the TOS at:
http://elizabot.spymac.net/
Snit
>>> I wouldn't agree entirely on that point, I have to say. IMO, that's
>>> where such discussions should take place, *if* most people behaved
>>> reasonably. But as we know, it's often the reverse.
>>
>> It generally is the reverse... and I admit I have in the past enjoyed
>> not just the information side of the groups but also messing with the
>> trolls. I am growing weary of that... note that I rarely even respond
>> to the primary trolls from CSMA that follow me ... they are a sad lot.
>
> Frankly, I would just have dumped CSMA altogether if I were you. It's not
> worth the aggro. Move on and leave them to crow about their 'victory' in
> removing you - why should you care what they think?
I admit I enjoy watching the trolls dance... but I also take part in the
informative threads. I generally am one of the first to respond to requests
for help.
>
>>>>> People often aren't. And many posters in COLA dump all crossposted
>>>>> messages, becasue of the activities of idiots from alt.os.windows-xp
>>>>> and the like.
>>>>
>>>> I'm always deeply suspicious of anyone cross-posting. There are
>>>> almost never reasons to do so, and there is certainly no reason
>>>> whatsoever to engage in trolling across multiple groups, as SNIT has
>>>> done numerous times. It's just bad behaviour.
>>>
>>> I think the threads Snit's been involved in spun off from already
>>> cross-posted threads started by others.
>>
>> True - but I did also post some to both groups. Since I am new to Linux
>> but also a Mac advocate I felt it was appropriate. Mac folks may very
>> well have been interested in how someone who knows Macs well would take
>> to Linux. I did not - but should have - considered the affects of the
>> trolls from CSMA following me. They always do, so this was easy to
>> predict... and my mistake.
>
> You're forgiven - at least by me.
Unfortunately I suspect I pulled some of the CSMA trolls this direction...
though they will hopefully not stay long.
>
>>> He seems to have had his interest in linux roused by something he's
>>> read in COLA, and simply continued the cross-posts as he asked
>>> questions about the suitability of linux for the group of people (i.e
>>> his students) that he had in mind to maybe recommend linux to. I don't
>>> think you can necessarily call that trolling, though he's occasionally
>>> expressed himself badly, and been rather obtuse. But then, by
>>> definition, newbies don't know what they're talking about, do they -
>>> else they'd not be newbies, right?
>>
>> Exactly - there have been mistakes I have made and poor assumptions.
>> Generally I comment that such things are possible - but some ignore that
>> disclaimer and take one sentence out of context and claim I am insisting
>> something is as it appears to me.
>
> It happens. Not everyone understands things in exactly the same way, and
> it's easier to misinterpret what a poster is actually trying to convey
> than a lot of people realise, IMO. It's best not to prolong such
> misunderstandings with tit-for-tat replies just to have the last word.
> Better to let it drop if it happens. Nobody's perfect.
True. And I do allow myself to be caught up in those meaningless debates.
>
>>> He may be a troll in CSMA, or be considered to be one, but those who
>>> accuse him of that don't seem to be better behaved. I've advised Snit
>>> to keep his Linux discussion in COLA, rather than cross-post them - it
>>> remains to be seen whether he will take the advice.
>>
>> For the most part I now have. There may be some that are still
>> appropriate for both - but with the clear result being that the CSMA
>> trolls will do all they can to disrupt COLA, this should be kept to a
>> minimum.
>
> Agreed.
_________________________________________
Kier
IMO, you would do better to avoid that sort of game here <friendly
advice>. As you may have noticed, trolls are extremely unwelcome in COLA.
Concentrate on discussing Linux, and don't extoll the virtues of the Mac
too often, and you won't go far wrong. While wintrolls are considered fair
game, regular Linux advocates generally aren't.
--
Kier
Elizabot v2.0.2
<snip>
> i was thinking of people like Steve Caroll, Steve Mackay and Elizabot.
Why did you bring up Steve Mackay? Google reports only 1 post in cola
over the last month.
Did Snit send you an email telling you about "the trolls", by chance?
He's been known to do that before.
If he did, then perhaps he told you he didn't want to start more flaming
in the newsgroup a an explanation for the email. Reality would dictate
that he didn't want to have his lies refuted.
Kier
Since you're no longer cross-posting, they shouldn't be a problem much
longer, I hope.
<snip>
--
Kier
billwg
> On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 14:50:15 +0000, billwg wrote:
>
>> Ah, Kier, you are a soul-less drudge, eh? Such a humorless post! LOL!!!
>> See comments below.
>
> I don't find you very funny. And I'm certainly not a soulless drudge,
> LOLboi.
>
recognizing the fact, which proves the point! LOL!!!
>>
>> "Kier" <val...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:pan.2005.03.12...@tiscali.co.uk...
>>> On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 13:50:21 +0000, billwg wrote:
>>>
>>>> The main purpose of an advocacy forum is for the pros and the cons to
>>>> voice
>>>> an opinion, eh? Certainly a newbie who has adopted linux isn't going
>>>> to
>>>> post here for any useful reason, if he needs help, he'll post in a
>>>> support
>>>> forum.
>>>
>>> Some of us just like to talk about Linux, too, without getting deep into
>>> technical matters, or solving problems. As for what's useful, it may
>>> well
>>> be useful to a newbie to hear varying opinions from regular Linux users,
>>> who know more about the ins and outs of the platform.
>>>
>> Now what kind of witless pursuit would that be? Haven't you something
>> better to do? Like watch an old movie? What kind of loser would want to
>> waste time discussing "ins and outs" of linux?
>
> Haven't you anything better to do that post lies about linux? That would
> seem to be a far more pointless pursuit.
>
lies because you are a soul-less drudge and can't face facts!
> Obviously you never met a football fan. Endless discussion take place
> about the noble game of football ('soccer', to you Yanks). Fans of old
> movies talk about them, too, you know. Why should Linux not be discussed
> by its users? *Everyone8 talks about their interests with like-minded
> people.
>
LOL!!!
>>
>>>> I know that some of the pro-Windows folk have a need to vent their
>>>> frustrations regarding the events that nettle them in their jobs that
>>>> involve creation of Windows application code. These people are
>>>> constantly annoyed by short sighted managers and others in their
>>>> organizations that constantly read articles about some mythical need
>>>> for
>>>> "cross platform capability" and use up a developer's valuable surfing
>>>> time with the task of investigating the effort of moving some
>>>> successful
>>>> Windows application to linux. The project invariably dies, but only
>>>> after a lot of irritation.
>>>
>>> Bollocks. Cross-platform compatibility and interoperability should be a
>>> given. There *are* other platforms than Windows, and information needs
>>> to
>>> be freely available and exchangable. Managers who recognise this are far
>>> from being short-sighted, in fact, they're ahead of the curve.
>>
>> No, they are slow and dull witted, reading the wrong magazines. Look at
>> the
>> linux track record in business!
>
> I have. It's good, and growing. You seem to be ignorant of the truth.
You seem to be ignorant of how to read a financial review!
> Linux users are not dull or slow-witted, rather the reverse.
>
These are not linux users, kier! Try to read for comprehension rather than
to feed your biases.
>>>
>>> As for moving Windows apps to Linux, that's mostly taken care of by
>>> stuff
>>> like Wine or CrossoverOffice.
>>>
>> For the dilettantes, perhaps.
>
> No, in the case of CrossOverOffice, by pros.
>
The height of hilarity, kier! LOL!!! Imagine spending more than the price
of Windows for an emulator so that you can run some Windows programs on
linux! That just shows how desparate the linuxers are for something useful.
>>
>>> Windows users seem pretty eager to take up successful Linux apps like
>>> Firefox, OO.org and the GIMP (to name the three most popular). Not to
>>> mention Thunderbird, and others.
>>>
>> I don't think that any honest review of this notion would come to that
>> conclusion, kier. A lot of techie people downloaded Firefox because of
>> the
>> hype, but regular users didn't.
>
> Have you any evidence that no regular users have downloaded Firefox? It's
> been recommended more than once in mainstream Sunday newspapers and wide
> circulation PC mags over here, to regular users. In fact, I posted out an
> article in the Sunday Times recently which advocated the use of both
> Firefox and Thunderbird (its sister email client), to a regular generally
> non-technical readership.
>
I run a community website for the subdivision where I live most of the year
and there are some 450 registered accounts. You have to be vetted to log
in, so the traffic (and interest in) on the web site is generally restricted
to just the homeowners plus the agent from the property management company
that we hired to do the day to day paperwork. There are a few techies
living here, but it is mostly "regular" people. In the past 3 months, there
have been .7% of the hits attributed to "Mozilla" type browsers and many of
those are my own use of Firefox to test the various parts of the site.
>> They haven't even heard of the rest. For
>> that matter, just what is 00.org and Thunderbird? I know that GIMP is a
>> graphics package of some sort, but I don't know what it hopes to compete
>> with.
>
> Then you clearly haven't been paying attention here lately, or are
> outright lying. I'd settle for the second. The Gnu Image Manipulation
> Program (to give it its full name) competes with most good graphics
> packages for Windows, and has been discussed here at length. The 2.4
> release is scheduled to have full colour management, which will bring it
> more or less up to the full Photoshop level - it's almost there now in
> other respects, and doesn't cost the earth, either. it's certain the equal
> of PaintShop Pro, a very popular Windows app, which many regular Windows
> users will be familiar with.
>
I use PSP all the time, kier, and what is it about GIMP that would make me
want to change? My daughter is a graphics designer and uses these things to
make a living, but she won't even use a PC. All the employed graphics folk
seem to use Macintosh with Photoshop, Quark, and other traditional
commercial art packages. I think that GIMP is for the wannabes.
> OO.org is OpenOffice.org, the Linux/Open source flagship office suite,
> derived from StarOffice. Thunderbird is an email app which knocks spots of
> OE. If they've heard of Firefox, they'll have heard of Thunderbird, too -
> they can be downloaded from much the same place.
>
Well, I downloaded Firefox, but never saw any mention of Thunderbird. I'll
look.
>>
>>>>
>>>> It would seem that the best way to prevent this is to nip it in the
>>>> bud,
>>>> so
>>>> to speak, and so they practice their presentations in this forum. It
>>>> may
>>>> look like flaming in many cases, but that too is the result of
>>>> frustrations
>>>> in having to talk to idiots.
>>>
>>> Yeah, it's pretty frustrating having to talk to idiots like you. Coming
>>> out with nonsensical statements like this only makes your idiocy more
>>> obvious.
>>>
>> You seem to agree, then you totally lose the context of my post, kier!
>> We
>> were talking about the pro-linux idiots. Try to stay on topic or else
>> clearly show that you are changing it.
>
> Don't get clever with me, bill. You were being insulting. I just turned
> you insult back on you.
I think you failed miserably, kier! LOL!!! You cannot insult me because I
don't have any regard for your respect. Now I appreciate that works both
ways, so don't bother to mention it. As I said, advocacy forums are for
practicing flames.
> See, I don't accept your incorreect judgement of
> linux advocates in the workplace as idiots.
>
Don't kid yourself, kier. They are not "advocates" but rather just casting
a wide net trying to find things to improve revenues. They read stories
about linux in the trade rags and cannot sort the wheat from the chaff, so
to speak, so I have to do that for them.
>>
>>>>
>>>> The most helpful aspect of the cola forum is that it is a source of
>>>> tons
>>>> of
>>>> quotes from linux advocates that show the folly of trying to make a
>>>> business
>>>> out of selling software to such clowns. The marketers groove on this
>>>> immediately and side with the developers in getting any linux
>>>> initiative
>>>> off
>>>> the street quickly before it becomes more of a nuisance.
>>>
>>> More bollocks. Really, you should start thinking and stop talking out of
>>> your arse. the maybe you wouldn't get flamed for being a troll and a
>>> fool.
>>>
>> Such a stereotypical answer! Thank you.
>
> Maybe you should start thinking and stop being an idiot. You're the
> stereotype here, not me. I'm speaing the truth, while you lie.
>
You cola nuts are real devotees of the term "lie" which you seem to
interpret as anything said by anyone who is not completely pro-linux! You
confuse the term with opinion, attitude, and other forms of words. You need
to paint with a finer brush! LOL!!!
Kier
>
> "Kier" <val...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:pan.2005.03.12....@tiscali.co.uk...
>> On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 14:50:15 +0000, billwg wrote:
>>
>>> Ah, Kier, you are a soul-less drudge, eh? Such a humorless post! LOL!!!
>>> See comments below.
>>
>> I don't find you very funny. And I'm certainly not a soulless drudge,
>> LOLboi.
>>
> Exactly my point, kier! You are a soul-less drudge and incapable of
> recognizing the fact, which proves the point! LOL!!!
It proves nothingof the kind, since I am neither, and quite well aware of
that fact.
>>>
>>> "Kier" <val...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:pan.2005.03.12...@tiscali.co.uk...
>>>> On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 13:50:21 +0000, billwg wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The main purpose of an advocacy forum is for the pros and the cons to
>>>>> voice
>>>>> an opinion, eh? Certainly a newbie who has adopted linux isn't going
>>>>> to
>>>>> post here for any useful reason, if he needs help, he'll post in a
>>>>> support
>>>>> forum.
>>>>
>>>> Some of us just like to talk about Linux, too, without getting deep into
>>>> technical matters, or solving problems. As for what's useful, it may
>>>> well
>>>> be useful to a newbie to hear varying opinions from regular Linux users,
>>>> who know more about the ins and outs of the platform.
>>>>
>>> Now what kind of witless pursuit would that be? Haven't you something
>>> better to do? Like watch an old movie? What kind of loser would want to
>>> waste time discussing "ins and outs" of linux?
>>
>> Haven't you anything better to do that post lies about linux? That would
>> seem to be a far more pointless pursuit.
>>
> I haven't posted a single lie about linux, kier! You only think they are
> lies because you are a soul-less drudge and can't face facts!
That is a lie right there, you stupid prick.
>
>> Obviously you never met a football fan. Endless discussion take place
>> about the noble game of football ('soccer', to you Yanks). Fans of old
>> movies talk about them, too, you know. Why should Linux not be discussed
>> by its users? *Everyone8 talks about their interests with like-minded
>> people.
>>
> LOL!!!
What's funny about that, you idiot? Or don't you have any friends to talk
to?
>>>
>>>>> I know that some of the pro-Windows folk have a need to vent their
>>>>> frustrations regarding the events that nettle them in their jobs that
>>>>> involve creation of Windows application code. These people are
>>>>> constantly annoyed by short sighted managers and others in their
>>>>> organizations that constantly read articles about some mythical need
>>>>> for
>>>>> "cross platform capability" and use up a developer's valuable surfing
>>>>> time with the task of investigating the effort of moving some
>>>>> successful
>>>>> Windows application to linux. The project invariably dies, but only
>>>>> after a lot of irritation.
>>>>
>>>> Bollocks. Cross-platform compatibility and interoperability should be a
>>>> given. There *are* other platforms than Windows, and information needs
>>>> to
>>>> be freely available and exchangable. Managers who recognise this are far
>>>> from being short-sighted, in fact, they're ahead of the curve.
>>>
>>> No, they are slow and dull witted, reading the wrong magazines. Look at
>>> the
>>> linux track record in business!
>>
>> I have. It's good, and growing. You seem to be ignorant of the truth.
>
> You seem to be ignorant of how to read a financial review!
Where were we talking about financial reviews?
>
>> Linux users are not dull or slow-witted, rather the reverse.
>>
> These are not linux users, kier! Try to read for comprehension rather than
> to feed your biases.
Try saying soomething that makes sense.
>
>>>>
>>>> As for moving Windows apps to Linux, that's mostly taken care of by
>>>> stuff
>>>> like Wine or CrossoverOffice.
>>>>
>>> For the dilettantes, perhaps.
>>
>> No, in the case of CrossOverOffice, by pros.
>>
> The height of hilarity, kier! LOL!!! Imagine spending more than the price
> of Windows for an emulator so that you can run some Windows programs on
> linux! That just shows how desparate the linuxers are for something useful.
Nope. That's just where you're wrong.
>
>>>
>>>> Windows users seem pretty eager to take up successful Linux apps like
>>>> Firefox, OO.org and the GIMP (to name the three most popular). Not to
>>>> mention Thunderbird, and others.
>>>>
>>> I don't think that any honest review of this notion would come to that
>>> conclusion, kier. A lot of techie people downloaded Firefox because of
>>> the
>>> hype, but regular users didn't.
>>
>> Have you any evidence that no regular users have downloaded Firefox? It's
>> been recommended more than once in mainstream Sunday newspapers and wide
>> circulation PC mags over here, to regular users. In fact, I posted out an
>> article in the Sunday Times recently which advocated the use of both
>> Firefox and Thunderbird (its sister email client), to a regular generally
>> non-technical readership.
>>
> I run a community website for the subdivision where I live most of the year
> and there are some 450 registered accounts. You have to be vetted to log
> in, so the traffic (and interest in) on the web site is generally restricted
> to just the homeowners plus the agent from the property management company
> that we hired to do the day to day paperwork. There are a few techies
> living here, but it is mostly "regular" people. In the past 3 months, there
> have been .7% of the hits attributed to "Mozilla" type browsers and many of
> those are my own use of Firefox to test the various parts of the site.
Proves nothing.
>
>>> They haven't even heard of the rest. For
>>> that matter, just what is 00.org and Thunderbird? I know that GIMP is a
>>> graphics package of some sort, but I don't know what it hopes to compete
>>> with.
>>
>> Then you clearly haven't been paying attention here lately, or are
>> outright lying. I'd settle for the second. The Gnu Image Manipulation
>> Program (to give it its full name) competes with most good graphics
>> packages for Windows, and has been discussed here at length. The 2.4
>> release is scheduled to have full colour management, which will bring it
>> more or less up to the full Photoshop level - it's almost there now in
>> other respects, and doesn't cost the earth, either. it's certain the equal
>> of PaintShop Pro, a very popular Windows app, which many regular Windows
>> users will be familiar with.
>>
> I use PSP all the time, kier, and what is it about GIMP that would make me
> want to change? My daughter is a graphics designer and uses these things to
> make a living, but she won't even use a PC. All the employed graphics folk
> seem to use Macintosh with Photoshop, Quark, and other traditional
> commercial art packages. I think that GIMP is for the wannabes.
Wannbe whats, diot? It's a desktop users image editing package. it costs
nothing, and it works well. I've got it on my Windows box, alongside PSP.
I use both.
No, they're not. They're for advocating, discussion, and keeping idiots
like you away from help groups.
>
>> See, I don't accept your incorreect judgement of
>> linux advocates in the workplace as idiots.
>>
> Don't kid yourself, kier. They are not "advocates" but rather just casting
> a wide net trying to find things to improve revenues.
Nothing wrong in improving revenues.
> They read stories
> about linux in the trade rags and cannot sort the wheat from the chaff, so
> to speak, so I have to do that for them.
Yeah, I bet. You're sooo smart while they're all too dumb to understand
what they read and evaluate their business needs.
>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The most helpful aspect of the cola forum is that it is a source of
>>>>> tons
>>>>> of
>>>>> quotes from linux advocates that show the folly of trying to make a
>>>>> business
>>>>> out of selling software to such clowns. The marketers groove on this
>>>>> immediately and side with the developers in getting any linux
>>>>> initiative
>>>>> off
>>>>> the street quickly before it becomes more of a nuisance.
>>>>
>>>> More bollocks. Really, you should start thinking and stop talking out of
>>>> your arse. the maybe you wouldn't get flamed for being a troll and a
>>>> fool.
>>>>
>>> Such a stereotypical answer! Thank you.
>>
>> Maybe you should start thinking and stop being an idiot. You're the
>> stereotype here, not me. I'm speaing the truth, while you lie.
>>
> You cola nuts are real devotees of the term "lie" which you seem to
> interpret as anything said by anyone who is not completely pro-linux! You
> confuse the term with opinion, attitude, and other forms of words. You need
> to paint with a finer brush! LOL!!!
You need to stop being a stupid lying troll.
--
Kier
LOLboi, you're an idiot troll, not anyone smart
Snit
No... now they have taken to responding in CSMA to my posts in COLA ....
just weird. I used to give them more attention... I think I got them
hooked. :)
--
Picture of a tuna soda: http://snipurl.com/bid1
Feel free to ask for the recipe.
_________________________________________
Snit
is Rick considered a "regular Linux advocate"... he has done little else
other than troll me since I started posting here.
--
"If a million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."
- Anatole France
_________________________________________
Snit
4233158b$0$42478$7586...@news.frii.net on 3/12/05 9:15 AM:
> Kier wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> i was thinking of people like Steve Caroll, Steve Mackay and Elizabot.
>
> Why did you bring up Steve Mackay? Google reports only 1 post in cola
> over the last month.
>
> Did Snit send you an email telling you about "the trolls", by chance?
> He's been known to do that before.
I would love, Elizabot, for you to try to suppose this delusion of yours.
Rick
(snip)
>
> is Rick considered a "regular Linux advocate"... he has done little else
> other than troll me since I started posting here.
Your enormous ignorance is matched only by your dishonesty.
--
Rick
Snit
pan.2005.03.12....@trollfeed.com on 3/12/05 1:32 PM:
Listen, Rick, I came to COLA asking questions. You started trolling and
flaming me. I returned the favor until you were reduced to a little puddle
of goo calling me names and tossing your resume at me in a attempt to show
you have some advanced knowledge (you once hand coded a HMTL page!)... I
finally decided enough was enough and offered a truce...
And I would like to keep the offer open.
Would you prefer for us to keep posting flames about each other or would you
prefer that we treat each other civilly. I prefer civility, but have plenty
of experience whacking people who want to flame me down - just look at the
idiots in CSMA who still follow me around lying and trying to get revenge.
Can we make peace? Please... if not for me, then for the good of COLA?
--
Picture of a tuna soda: http://snipurl.com/bid1
Feel free to ask for the recipe.
_________________________________________
Kier
Let them talk to themselves, then.
--
Kier
Kier
Some might say he is. He can be a good advocate at times. Perhaps he
simply dislikes your manner. In any case, I'd suggest cooling it on
that front and going on with other more useful discussions.
--
Kier
Kier
<replying in part to Elizabot>
> "Elizabot v2.0.2" <Eliz...@NsOpSyPmAaMc.com> wrote in post
> 4233158b$0$42478$7586...@news.frii.net on 3/12/05 9:15 AM:
>
>> Kier wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> i was thinking of people like Steve Caroll, Steve Mackay and Elizabot.
>>
>> Why did you bring up Steve Mackay? Google reports only 1 post in cola
>> over the last month.
I've been in CSMA. Snit may not be perfect, but the rest of you seem no
better, and it's by no means a given that he is the only one trolling, or
at fault.
>>
>> Did Snit send you an email telling you about "the trolls", by chance?
>> He's been known to do that before.
He did nothing of the sort. And even if he had, what business would it be
of yours?
>
> I would love, Elizabot, for you to try to suppose this delusion of yours.
Guess you meant support, right? :-) Frankly, even if you *had* emailed me,
I'd make my own judgement on the matter.
--
Kier
billwg
> that fact.
>
a thing in the first place. That comes from having a guilty conscience.
>>>>
>>>
>> I haven't posted a single lie about linux, kier! You only think they are
>> lies because you are a soul-less drudge and can't face facts!
>
> That is a lie right there, you stupid prick.
>
Well, kier, let's look at this logically. I made no statement regarding
linux, I made a statement about my own history. You call that a lie as
proof that I lied about linux. You cannot score any points that way, the
judges are far too savvy to allow it. Rather, you will have to find some
statement that I offered for the truth of the matter in regard to linux
itself that you can show to be false and can further show that I knew to be
false when I made it. Then you can assert that I lied, but only then.
As to your being a soul-less drudge who cannot face facts, that is, of
course, an opinion or attitude on my part and cannot be a lie in any sense.
I really do think you are a soul-less drudge based on your bland posts and
inability to argue with facts along with your propensity to call people
derogatory names.
>>
>>> Obviously you never met a football fan. Endless discussion take place
>>> about the noble game of football ('soccer', to you Yanks).
I was once a FIFA referee, qualified at the state level to officiate a wide
range of amateur matches, kier! I have met numerous football fans and have
sent a few of them who were masquerading as coaches off the pitch. Play on!
>>>>
>>>> No, they are slow and dull witted, reading the wrong magazines. Look
>>>> at
>>>> the
>>>> linux track record in business!
>>>
>>> I have. It's good, and growing. You seem to be ignorant of the truth.
>>
>> You seem to be ignorant of how to read a financial review!
>
> Where were we talking about financial reviews?
>
What do you use as a "track record in business"? The conventional wisdom is
to review financial results.
>>
>>> Linux users are not dull or slow-witted, rather the reverse.
>>>
>> These are not linux users, kier! Try to read for comprehension rather
>> than
>> to feed your biases.
>
> Try saying soomething that makes sense.
>
>>
>>>
>> I run a community website for the subdivision where I live most of the
>> year
>> and there are some 450 registered accounts. You have to be vetted to log
>> in, so the traffic (and interest in) on the web site is generally
>> restricted
>> to just the homeowners plus the agent from the property management
>> company
>> that we hired to do the day to day paperwork. There are a few techies
>> living here, but it is mostly "regular" people. In the past 3 months,
>> there
>> have been .7% of the hits attributed to "Mozilla" type browsers and many
>> of
>> those are my own use of Firefox to test the various parts of the site.
>
> Proves nothing.
>
t shows that a sample of some 450 users picked solely from an arbitrary
region of Seminole County, Florida have not used Firefox to any degree in
the past several months.
>>
>>>> They haven't even heard of the rest. For
>>>> that matter, just what is 00.org and Thunderbird? I know that GIMP is
>>>> a
>>>> graphics package of some sort, but I don't know what it hopes to
>>>> compete
>>>> with.
>>>
>
> Wannbe whats, diot?
It is worthwhile to at least lightly proof your posts before submission,
kier. That saves some misinterpretations! Wannabes will use some ersatz
thing while pretending to be serious practitioners of some art because they
cannot justify the expense of a real facility or are otherwise not qualified
to use the genuine article. If you are a commercial artist and being paid
for your efforts, you will use Photoshop and nothing else. If you are
pretending, you might use PSP. If you are pretending to pretend, maybe GIMP
is the ticket! I see it as kind of a Toyota pickup truck sort of thing
purchased by people who aspire to look like tradesmen, i.e. a pretend pickup
for a someone pretending to need one.
> It's a desktop users image editing package. it costs
> nothing, and it works well. I've got it on my Windows box, alongside PSP.
> I use both.
>
Can you describe why you use it rather than using PSP?
>
> No, they're not. They're for advocating, discussion, and keeping idiots
> like you away from help groups.
>
Not a completely definitive answer, kier! I did download the Thunderbird
executable and it looks interesting. They seem to have copied the look and
feel of Outlook Express fairly closely. I'm having some trouble with the
threading, though. It seems impossible to get a threaded view with the
threads collapsed in any kind of chronological order. As soon as you filter
in chronological order, it unthreads and if you re-thread, it reorders the
starting posts, but expands all threads. As soon as you collapse them, it
reorders the timelines. I will look for a help news group on this. The
documentation doesn't seem to relate to the newsreader function and only
talks about e-mail.
>
> LOLboi, you're an idiot troll, not anyone smart
>
Well, kier, you cannot blame someone for trying to better themselves, eh?
LOL!!!
Snit
>>> IMO, you would do better to avoid that sort of game here <friendly
>>> advice>. As you may have noticed, trolls are extremely unwelcome in COLA.
>>> Concentrate on discussing Linux, and don't extoll the virtues of the Mac
>>> too often, and you won't go far wrong. While wintrolls are considered fair
>>> game, regular Linux advocates generally aren't.
>>
>> is Rick considered a "regular Linux advocate"... he has done little else
>> other than troll me since I started posting here.
>
> Some might say he is. He can be a good advocate at times. Perhaps he
> simply dislikes your manner. In any case, I'd suggest cooling it on
> that front and going on with other more useful discussions.
Sounds like COLA can be as cliquish as CSMA... a shame. But thanks for the
heads up.
--
Picture of a tuna milkshake: http://snipurl.com/bh6q
Feel free to ask for the recipe.
_________________________________________
Rick
> "Rick" <no...@trollfeed.com> wrote in post
> pan.2005.03.12....@trollfeed.com on 3/12/05 1:32 PM:
>
>> On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 13:00:37 -0700, Snit wrote:
>>
>> (snip)
>>>
>>> is Rick considered a "regular Linux advocate"... he has done little else
>>> other than troll me since I started posting here.
>>
>> Your enormous ignorance is matched only by your dishonesty.
>
> Listen, Rick, I came to COLA asking questions. You started trolling and
> flaming me.
Nope.
> I returned the favor until you were reduced to a little puddle
> of goo
ahah HAH ahha HAHA HAHa ahhHA AHHA hahahaha haa
> calling me names and tossing your resume at me in a attempt to show
> you have some advanced knowledge (you once hand coded a HMTL page!)... I
> finally decided enough was enough
no, you kept saying you knew more about Linux than I... well, you don't.
I tried to show you that, but you refuse to listen.
> and offered a truce...
When was that? And how do you have a truce when there is no war?
>
> And I would like to keep the offer open.
>
> Would you prefer for us to keep posting flames about each other or would you
> prefer that we treat each other civilly.
I prefer you to go learn a little so you stop making ignorant comments.
> I prefer civility, but have plenty
> of experience whacking people who want to flame me down - just look at the
> idiots in CSMA who still follow me around lying and trying to get revenge.
I haven't seen anyone lying about you. You seem to forget. I frequent
CSMA, and have read your posts there, too.
>
> Can we make peace? Please... if not for me, then for the good of COLA?
Fine...
Go learn the difference between windowing environments and window
managers.
Go learn that distros are not the same as releases of MacOS and
window$.
Go learn that 'ease of use' can be different to different people.
Go learn to actually use LiveCDs, and to learn Linux.
Then ask some informed, honest and non-prejudicial questions.
--
Rick
Snit
> managers,
Done.
> Go learn that distros are not the same as releases of MacOS and
> window$.
What makes you jump to that erroneous idea that I had that confusion?
> Go learn that 'ease of use' can be different to different people.
What makes you jump to that erroneous idea that I had that confusion?
> Go learn to actually use LiveCDs, and to learn Linux.
That is why I am in COLA... as part of my learning to use Linux.
Are you suggesting people should not use Linux until they know it well?
> Then ask some informed, honest and non-prejudicial questions.
I did - you trolled me based on it. I am asking you, kindly, to stop.
I would prefer if you did, but if you can not, it is simply a poor
reflection on you.
--
If A = B and B = C, then A = C, except where void or prohibited by law.
Roy Santoro, Psycho Proverb Zone (http://snipurl.com/BurdenOfProof)
Kier
> "Kier" <val...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in post
> pan.2005.03.12....@tiscali.co.uk on 3/12/05 2:03 PM:
>
>>>> IMO, you would do better to avoid that sort of game here <friendly
>>>> advice>. As you may have noticed, trolls are extremely unwelcome in COLA.
>>>> Concentrate on discussing Linux, and don't extoll the virtues of the Mac
>>>> too often, and you won't go far wrong. While wintrolls are considered fair
>>>> game, regular Linux advocates generally aren't.
>>>
>>> is Rick considered a "regular Linux advocate"... he has done little else
>>> other than troll me since I started posting here.
>>
>> Some might say he is. He can be a good advocate at times. Perhaps he
>> simply dislikes your manner. In any case, I'd suggest cooling it on
>> that front and going on with other more useful discussions.
>
> Sounds like COLA can be as cliquish as CSMA... a shame. But thanks for the
> heads up.
No problem. I expect all groups have their different 'cliques'. Same
everywhere, IME, in Real Life.
--
Kier
Snit
The anonymity of Usenet allows the "bullies" or whatever to gang up in ways
that does not happen in real life much - at least not much past high school.
--
"If you have integrity, nothing else matters." - Alan Simpson
Kier
>
> "Kier" <val...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:pan.2005.03.12....@tiscali.co.uk...
>>
>> It proves nothingof the kind, since I am neither, and quite well aware of
>> that fact.
>>
> I think that only a soul-less drudge would ever consider being aware of such
> a thing in the first place. That comes from having a guilty conscience.
Oh don't make me laugh, bill! Why should i have a guilty conscience? I've
done nothing wrong.
>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> I haven't posted a single lie about linux, kier! You only think they are
>>> lies because you are a soul-less drudge and can't face facts!
>>
>> That is a lie right there, you stupid prick.
>>
> Well, kier, let's look at this logically. I made no statement regarding
> linux, I made a statement about my own history.
Nope, you said you hadn't lied, and you daid I was a soulless drudge who
couldn't face facts. Both lies.
> You call that a lie as
> proof that I lied about linux. You cannot score any points that way, the
> judges are far too savvy to allow it. Rather, you will have to find some
> statement that I offered for the truth of the matter in regard to linux
> itself that you can show to be false and can further show that I knew to be
> false when I made it. Then you can assert that I lied, but only then.
Bullshit.
>
> As to your being a soul-less drudge who cannot face facts, that is, of
> course, an opinion or attitude on my part and cannot be a lie in any sense.
Okay, it's your (incorrect) opinion. But you offered it as if it were the
truth, with no IMO, or 'I think'.
> I really do think you are a soul-less drudge based on your bland posts
> and inability to argue with facts along with your propensity to call
> people derogatory names.
Huh? bland? You may think so. Others don't. And you are no one to be
criticising others for using names. Ai call you an idiot when you are one.
>
>
>>>> Obviously you never met a football fan. Endless discussion take place
>>>> about the noble game of football ('soccer', to you Yanks).
>
> I was once a FIFA referee, qualified at the state level to officiate a
> wide range of amateur matches, kier! I have met numerous football fans
> and have sent a few of them who were masquerading as coaches off the
> pitch. Play on!
Oh I bet. But that doesn't address my point.
>
>
>>>>> No, they are slow and dull witted, reading the wrong magazines. Look
>>>>> at
>>>>> the
>>>>> linux track record in business!
>>>>
>>>> I have. It's good, and growing. You seem to be ignorant of the truth.
>>>
>>> You seem to be ignorant of how to read a financial review!
>>
>> Where were we talking about financial reviews?
>>
> What do you use as a "track record in business"? The conventional
> wisdom is to review financial results.
The continuing health and growth of the business.
>
>
>>>> Linux users are not dull or slow-witted, rather the reverse.
>>>>
>>> These are not linux users, kier! Try to read for comprehension rather
>>> than
>>> to feed your biases.
>>
>> Try saying soomething that makes sense.
>>
>>
>>
>>> I run a community website for the subdivision where I live most of the
>>> year
>>> and there are some 450 registered accounts. You have to be vetted to
>>> log in, so the traffic (and interest in) on the web site is generally
>>> restricted
>>> to just the homeowners plus the agent from the property management
>>> company
>>> that we hired to do the day to day paperwork. There are a few techies
>>> living here, but it is mostly "regular" people. In the past 3 months,
>>> there
>>> have been .7% of the hits attributed to "Mozilla" type browsers and
>>> many of
>>> those are my own use of Firefox to test the various parts of the site.
>>
>> Proves nothing.
>>
> t shows that a sample of some 450 users picked solely from an arbitrary
> region of Seminole County, Florida have not used Firefox to any degree
> in the past several months.
And very little else.
>
>
>>>>> They haven't even heard of the rest. For that matter, just what is
>>>>> 00.org and Thunderbird? I know that GIMP is a graphics package of
>>>>> some sort, but I don't know what it hopes to compete
>>>>> with.
>>>>
>>>>
>> Wannbe whats, diot?
>
> It is worthwhile to at least lightly proof your posts before submission,
> kier. That saves some misinterpretations!
So I made a typo. Big deal. It happens, especially when you're not a great
typist, like me, and you're tired from hard work all week.
> Wannabes will use some
> ersatz thing while pretending to be serious practitioners of some art
> because they cannot justify the expense of a real facility or are
> otherwise not qualified to use the genuine article.
GIMP is not ersatz. Where did you pick up such stupid notions, bill? It's
very serious. A solid editing app. All it really lacks now is true colour
management, and that is expected in version 2.4 if all goes to plan.
> If you are a
> commercial artist and being paid for your efforts, you will use
> Photoshop and nothing else. If you are pretending, you might use PSP.
Pretending to be what, you dolt? Most desktop users are only interested in
editing their own pictures or playing with images they've got from the
net. Mnay professionals use Photoshop, it's true, but that's as much
because Photoshop got itself established first. It's like the old
Sociology staple, the self-fulfilling prophesy.
> If you are pretending to pretend, maybe GIMP is the ticket! I see it as
> kind of a Toyota pickup truck sort of thing purchased by people who
> aspire to look like tradesmen, i.e. a pretend pickup for a someone
> pretending to need one.
You continue not to make sense. Why should any pretense be involved?
>
>> It's a desktop users image editing package. it costs nothing, and it
>> works well. I've got it on my Windows box, alongside PSP. I use both.
>>
> Can you describe why you use it rather than using PSP?
Because I like it, because it's Free, because it's different from PSP and
can do different things in different ways. Because I can. Because it's
fun.
>> No, they're not. They're for advocating, discussion, and keeping idiots
>> like you away from help groups.
>>
> Not a completely definitive answer, kier! I did download the
> Thunderbird executable and it looks interesting. They seem to have
> copied the look and feel of Outlook Express fairly closely. I'm having
> some trouble with the threading, though. It seems impossible to get a
> threaded view with the threads collapsed in any kind of chronological
> order. As soon as you filter in chronological order, it unthreads and
> if you re-thread, it reorders the starting posts, but expands all
> threads. As soon as you collapse them, it reorders the timelines. I
> will look for a help news group on this. The documentation doesn't seem
> to relate to the newsreader function and only talks about e-mail.
Most likely because its chief function is as an email program. And it's
still very new, so it won't have settled to its final form yet. If you've
something to complain of in its functioning, why not send a bug report or
something to the developers? That would help them to improve it.
>
>> LOLboi, you're an idiot troll, not anyone smart
>>
> Well, kier, you cannot blame someone for trying to better themselves,
> eh? LOL!!!
<Weary sigh> Why don't you just drop the fucking stupid 'LOL!!!' crap,
bill? It's really getting to be tedious.
--
Kier
Rick
> "Rick" <no...@trollfeed.com> wrote in post
> pan.2005.03.12....@trollfeed.com on 3/12/05 3:04 PM:
>
>> On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 13:38:01 -0700, Snit wrote:
>>
>>> "Rick" <no...@trollfeed.com> wrote in post
>>> pan.2005.03.12....@trollfeed.com on 3/12/05 1:32 PM:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 13:00:37 -0700, Snit wrote:
>>>>
>>>> (snip)
>>>>>
>>>>> is Rick considered a "regular Linux advocate"... he has done little else
>>>>> other than troll me since I started posting here.
>>>>
>>>> Your enormous ignorance is matched only by your dishonesty.
>>>
>>> Listen, Rick, I came to COLA asking questions. You started trolling and
>>> flaming me.
>>
>> Nope.
>>
>>> I returned the favor until you were reduced to a little puddle
>>> of goo
>>
>> ahah HAH ahha HAHA HAHa ahhHA AHHA hahahaha haa
>>
>>> calling me names and tossing your resume at me in a attempt to show
>>> you have some advanced knowledge (you once hand coded a HMTL page!)... I
>>> finally decided enough was enough
>>
>> no, you kept saying you knew more about Linux than I... well, you don't.
>> I tried to show you that, but you refuse to listen.
>>
>>> and offered a truce...
>>
>> When was that? And how do you have a truce when there is no war?
... no answer, I see.
>>
>>>
>>> And I would like to keep the offer open.
>>>
>>> Would you prefer for us to keep posting flames about each other or would you
>>> prefer that we treat each other civilly.
>>
>> I prefer you to go learn a little so you stop making ignorant comments.
>>
>>> I prefer civility, but have plenty
>>> of experience whacking people who want to flame me down - just look at the
>>> idiots in CSMA who still follow me around lying and trying to get revenge.
>>
>> I haven't seen anyone lying about you. You seem to forget. I frequent
>> CSMA, and have read your posts there, too.
>>
>>>
>>> Can we make peace? Please... if not for me, then for the good of COLA?
>>
>> Fine...
>> Go learn the difference between windowing environments and window
>> managers,
>
> Done.
Then why do apparently not understand that KDE based apps are
generally consistent, Gome apps are generally consistent, and other apps
may or may not be consistent with Gnome or KDE guidelines?
>
>> Go learn that distros are not the same as releases of MacOS and
>> window$.
>
> What makes you jump to that erroneous idea that I had that confusion?
The fact that you keep whining that this or that 'inconsistent' app is
bundled in a distro.
>
>> Go learn that 'ease of use' can be different to different people.
>
> What makes you jump to that erroneous idea that I had that confusion?
The fact that you keep saying this or that is easier to use, especially
when others disagree with you.
>
>> Go learn to actually use LiveCDs, and to learn Linux.
>
> That is why I am in COLA... as part of my learning to use Linux.
As a teacher, teaching skills, you should know... you learn by doing. Go
do some doing.
>
> Are you suggesting people should not use Linux until they know it well?
No. I am suggesting you go learn Linux well.
>
>> Then ask some informed, honest and non-prejudicial questions.
>
> I did
No, you didn't.
> - you trolled me based on it.
No, I didn't. I called you on it.
> I am asking you, kindly, to stop.
no.
>
> I would prefer if you did, but if you can not, it is simply a poor
> reflection on you.
You are like an owl in bright light.
--
Rick
Snit
>>>> and offered a truce...
>>>
>>> When was that? And how do you have a truce when there is no war?
>
> ... no answer, I see.
No war, yet you continue to toss flames at me. Hmmmm, what do you attribute
that to?
>> Fine...
>>> Go learn the difference between windowing environments and window
>>> managers,
>>
>> Done.
>
> Then why do apparently not understand that KDE based apps are
> generally consistent, Gome apps are generally consistent, and other apps
> may or may not be consistent with Gnome or KDE guidelines?
What makes you jump to that erroneous idea that I have that confusion?
My guess is it comes from my questions dealing with distros that would have
consistent dialogs by default - a question of mine you never showed any
understanding of. Do you now understand the question?
For the record, though, I am still struggling with differentiating between
WM's and DE's... though I think I am getting it.
>>
>>> Go learn that distros are not the same as releases of MacOS and
>>> window$.
>>
>> What makes you jump to that erroneous idea that I had that confusion?
>
> The fact that you keep whining that this or that 'inconsistent' app is
> bundled in a distro.
Applications *are* bundled with most, if not all, distros. I have shown you
examples of where those bundled apps are inconsistent:
http://myweb.cableone.net/snit/linux/save_dialogs.html
All from one distro and its bundled apps.
>>
>>> Go learn that 'ease of use' can be different to different people.
>>
>> What makes you jump to that erroneous idea that I had that confusion?
>
> The fact that you keep saying this or that is easier to use, especially
> when others disagree with you.
Where do you believe I have stated that someone is wrong about what *they*
find easier to use?
My guess is your confusion from this comes from the same misunderstanding
you show above - you do not understand why I would want consistent dialogs
and other ease-of-use benefits for my students and clients.
I do hope you get to the point of understanding this soon. I am quite
certain it would ease tensions between us.
>>
>>> Go learn to actually use LiveCDs, and to learn Linux.
>>
>> That is why I am in COLA... as part of my learning to use Linux.
>
> As a teacher, teaching skills, you should know... you learn by doing. Go
> do some doing.
As I have. Again, Rick, we have covered my lack of hardware already. Are
you still having troubles understanding that, too?
>>
>> Are you suggesting people should not use Linux until they know it well?
>
> No. I am suggesting you go learn Linux well.
Are you suggesting only people who know Linux well should post to COLA? Are
you against questions?
>
>>
>>> Then ask some informed, honest and non-prejudicial questions.
>>
>> I did
>
> No, you didn't.
>
>> - you trolled me based on it.
>
> No, I didn't. I called you on it.
>
>> I am asking you, kindly, to stop.
>
> no.
>
>>
>> I would prefer if you did, but if you can not, it is simply a poor
>> reflection on you.
>
> You are like an owl in bright light.
And your comments here reflect on you even more poorly than the lack of
understanding you show, above.
--
Look, this is silly. It's not an argument, it's an armor plated walrus with
walnut paneling and an all leather interior.
Rick
> "Rick" <no...@trollfeed.com> wrote in post
> pan.2005.03.12....@trollfeed.com on 3/12/05 4:15 PM:
>
>
>>>>> and offered a truce...
>>>>
>>>> When was that? And how do you have a truce when there is no war?
>>
>> ... no answer, I see.
>
> No war, yet you continue to toss flames at me. Hmmmm, what do you attribute
> that to?
... a flaw in your premise.
>
>>> Fine...
>>>> Go learn the difference between windowing environments and window
>>>> managers,
>>>
>>> Done.
>>
>> Then why do apparently not understand that KDE based apps are
>> generally consistent, Gome apps are generally consistent, and other apps
>> may or may not be consistent with Gnome or KDE guidelines?
>
> What makes you jump to that erroneous idea that I have that confusion?
>
> My guess is it comes from my questions dealing with distros that would have
> consistent dialogs by default - a question of mine you never showed any
> understanding of. Do you now understand the question?
I have answered your question MANY times.
First (and AGAIN), apps based on a particular environment are generally
consistent with themselves.
Second, distros usually default to a particular environment but include
other environments and their apps. Deal with it.
>
> For the record, though, I am still struggling with differentiating between
> WM's and DE's... though I think I am getting it.
>>>
>>>> Go learn that distros are not the same as releases of MacOS and
>>>> window$.
>>>
>>> What makes you jump to that erroneous idea that I had that confusion?
>>
>> The fact that you keep whining that this or that 'inconsistent' app is
>> bundled in a distro.
>
> Applications *are* bundled with most, if not all, distros. I have shown you
> examples of where those bundled apps are inconsistent:
>
> http://myweb.cableone.net/snit/linux/save_dialogs.html
>
> All from one distro and its bundled apps.
No shit, sherlock. Apps based on different environments are different
compared to each other. Deal with it.
>>>
>>>> Go learn that 'ease of use' can be different to different people.
>>>
>>> What makes you jump to that erroneous idea that I had that confusion?
>>
>> The fact that you keep saying this or that is easier to use, especially
>> when others disagree with you.
>
> Where do you believe I have stated that someone is wrong about what *they*
> find easier to use?
>
> My guess is your confusion from this comes from the same misunderstanding
> you show above - you do not understand why I would want consistent dialogs
> and other ease-of-use benefits for my students and clients.
You guess wrong.
>
> I do hope you get to the point of understanding this soon. I am quite
> certain it would ease tensions between us.
You are the confused one, and I fell no tension what-so-ever.
>>>
>>>> Go learn to actually use LiveCDs, and to learn Linux.
>>>
>>> That is why I am in COLA... as part of my learning to use Linux.
>>
>> As a teacher, teaching skills, you should know... you learn by doing. Go
>> do some doing.
>
> As I have. Again, Rick, we have covered my lack of hardware already. Are
> you still having troubles understanding that, too?
You claim you teach students how to use computers in a college setting,
but you say you have no computers. How is that?
>>>
>>> Are you suggesting people should not use Linux until they know it well?
>>
>> No. I am suggesting you go learn Linux well.
>
> Are you suggesting only people who know Linux well should post to COLA?
No.
> Are you against questions?
No.
>
>>>> Then ask some informed, honest and non-prejudicial questions.
>>>
>>> I did
>>
>> No, you didn't.
>>
>>> - you trolled me based on it.
>>
>> No, I didn't. I called you on it.
>>
>>> I am asking you, kindly, to stop.
>>
>> no.
>>
>>>
>>> I would prefer if you did, but if you can not, it is simply a poor
>>> reflection on you.
>>
>> You are like an owl in bright light.
>
> And your comments here reflect on you even more poorly than the lack of
> understanding you show, above.
... your ignorance and dishonesty shows itself.
--
Rick
Snit
>>> Then why do apparently not understand that KDE based apps are
>>> generally consistent, Gome apps are generally consistent, and other apps
>>> may or may not be consistent with Gnome or KDE guidelines?
>>
>> What makes you jump to that erroneous idea that I have that confusion?
>>
>> My guess is it comes from my questions dealing with distros that would have
>> consistent dialogs by default - a question of mine you never showed any
>> understanding of. Do you now understand the question?
>
> I have answered your question MANY times.
>
> First (and AGAIN), apps based on a particular environment are generally
> consistent with themselves.
>
> Second, distros usually default to a particular environment but include
> other environments and their apps. Deal with it.
Thank you for sharing that you still do not understand the question... other
than, perhaps, to say that no distro meets the needs I have described and I
should simply "deal with it".
Others have shown me screen shots and offered descriptions that lead me to
believe you are wrong on this, but the questions is, as far as I can tell,
still up in the air.
>>
>> For the record, though, I am still struggling with differentiating between
>> WM's and DE's... though I think I am getting it.
>>>>
>>>>> Go learn that distros are not the same as releases of MacOS and
>>>>> window$.
>>>>
>>>> What makes you jump to that erroneous idea that I had that confusion?
You never commented on how you came to this erroneous idea about me.
>>>
>>> The fact that you keep whining that this or that 'inconsistent' app is
>>> bundled in a distro.
>>
>> Applications *are* bundled with most, if not all, distros. I have shown you
>> examples of where those bundled apps are inconsistent:
>>
>> http://myweb.cableone.net/snit/linux/save_dialogs.html
>>
>> All from one distro and its bundled apps.
>
> No shit, sherlock. Apps based on different environments are different
> compared to each other. Deal with it.
Well, then, seems you do not know of any distro that meets my needs, either.
Again, others with more knowledge than either of us have pointed me in
directions that may work.
>
>>>>
>>>>> Go learn that 'ease of use' can be different to different people.
>>>>
>>>> What makes you jump to that erroneous idea that I had that confusion?
>>>
>>> The fact that you keep saying this or that is easier to use, especially
>>> when others disagree with you.
>>
>> Where do you believe I have stated that someone is wrong about what *they*
>> find easier to use?
>>
>> My guess is your confusion from this comes from the same misunderstanding
>> you show above - you do not understand why I would want consistent dialogs
>> and other ease-of-use benefits for my students and clients.
>
> You guess wrong.
Well, then, where does your error about my views come from? Or will you
insist your error is correct - and show that you have not even realized your
claim about me was incorrect.
For the record, different people surely may find different things easier to
use - look at the recent thread on Exposé and multiple desktops for just one
example.
>>
>> I do hope you get to the point of understanding this soon. I am quite
>> certain it would ease tensions between us.
>
> You are the confused one, and I fell no tension what-so-ever.
Do you really believe you know my views better than I do? If so, you are
either delusional or trolling, and it matters not which it is. Keep in mind
that we are discussing your comment:
Go learn that 'ease of use' can be different to different people.
In that comment you clearly show a belief about me - a belief that is very
clearly wrong. If you can not accept your error, that is your problem, not
mine.
>>>>
>>>>> Go learn to actually use LiveCDs, and to learn Linux.
>>>>
>>>> That is why I am in COLA... as part of my learning to use Linux.
>>>
>>> As a teacher, teaching skills, you should know... you learn by doing. Go
>>> do some doing.
>>
>> As I have. Again, Rick, we have covered my lack of hardware already. Are
>> you still having troubles understanding that, too?
>
> You claim you teach students how to use computers in a college setting,
> but you say you have no computers. How is that?
What are you getting at?
Do you think I am allowed to just grab computers from class rooms for my own
personal use?
Would love to see where you are heading with this odd line of questioning.
>
>>>>
>>>> Are you suggesting people should not use Linux until they know it well?
>>>
>>> No. I am suggesting you go learn Linux well.
>>
>> Are you suggesting only people who know Linux well should post to COLA?
>
> No.
>
>> Are you against questions?
>
> No.
>
So you have no problem with my posting. Excellent!
>>
>>>>> Then ask some informed, honest and non-prejudicial questions.
>>>>
>>>> I did
>>>
>>> No, you didn't.
>>>
>>>> - you trolled me based on it.
>>>
>>> No, I didn't. I called you on it.
>>>
>>>> I am asking you, kindly, to stop.
>>>
>>> no.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I would prefer if you did, but if you can not, it is simply a poor
>>>> reflection on you.
>>>
>>> You are like an owl in bright light.
>>
>> And your comments here reflect on you even more poorly than the lack of
>> understanding you show, above.
>
> ... your ignorance and dishonesty shows itself.
Again you sink to accusations.
Do you intend to support them?
--
"If you have integrity, nothing else matters." - Alan Simpson
Rick
> "Rick" <no...@trollfeed.com> wrote in post
> pan.2005.03.13....@trollfeed.com on 3/12/05 5:08 PM:
>
>>>> Then why do apparently not understand that KDE based apps are
>>>> generally consistent, Gome apps are generally consistent, and other apps
>>>> may or may not be consistent with Gnome or KDE guidelines?
>>>
>>> What makes you jump to that erroneous idea that I have that confusion?
>>>
>>> My guess is it comes from my questions dealing with distros that would have
>>> consistent dialogs by default - a question of mine you never showed any
>>> understanding of. Do you now understand the question?
>>
>> I have answered your question MANY times.
>>
>> First (and AGAIN), apps based on a particular environment are generally
>> consistent with themselves.
>>
>> Second, distros usually default to a particular environment but include
>> other environments and their apps. Deal with it.
>
> Thank you for sharing that you still do not understand the question... other
> than, perhaps, to say that no distro meets the needs I have described and I
> should simply "deal with it".
I have already said, several time, that I don't think there is a distro,
or OS, that meets your ...'requirements'.
>
> Others have shown me screen shots and offered descriptions that lead me to
> believe you are wrong on this, but the questions is, as far as I can tell,
> still up in the air.
>>>
>>> For the record, though, I am still struggling with differentiating between
>>> WM's and DE's... though I think I am getting it.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Go learn that distros are not the same as releases of MacOS and
>>>>>> window$.
>>>>>
>>>>> What makes you jump to that erroneous idea that I had that confusion?
>
> You never commented on how you came to this erroneous idea about me.
You don't seem to understand the fact that distros come with a wide range
of software. You keep calling it a weakness.
>>>>
>>>> The fact that you keep whining that this or that 'inconsistent' app is
>>>> bundled in a distro.
>>>
>>> Applications *are* bundled with most, if not all, distros. I have shown you
>>> examples of where those bundled apps are inconsistent:
>>>
>>> http://myweb.cableone.net/snit/linux/save_dialogs.html
>>>
>>> All from one distro and its bundled apps.
>>
>> No shit, sherlock. Apps based on different environments are different
>> compared to each other. Deal with it.
>
> Well, then, seems you do not know of any distro that meets my needs, either.
AGAIN, I have stated several times that I don not think there is an OS or
distro that meets your 'requirements'.
... nice evadimg my statement of " and I fell no tension what-so-ever."
>>>>>
>>>>>> Go learn to actually use LiveCDs, and to learn Linux.
>>>>>
>>>>> That is why I am in COLA... as part of my learning to use Linux.
>>>>
>>>> As a teacher, teaching skills, you should know... you learn by doing. Go
>>>> do some doing.
>>>
>>> As I have. Again, Rick, we have covered my lack of hardware already. Are
>>> you still having troubles understanding that, too?
>>
>> You claim you teach students how to use computers in a college setting,
>> but you say you have no computers. How is that?
>
> What are you getting at?
>
> Do you think I am allowed to just grab computers from class rooms for my own
> personal use?
What about you saying you were looking for software ... for your students?
>
> Would love to see where you are heading with this odd line of questioning.
See above.
>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Are you suggesting people should not use Linux until they know it well?
>>>>
>>>> No. I am suggesting you go learn Linux well.
>>>
>>> Are you suggesting only people who know Linux well should post to COLA?
>>
>> No.
>>
>>> Are you against questions?
>>
>> No.
>>
> So you have no problem with my posting. Excellent!
Your dishonesty is showing.
Am I against questions? NO.
Am I against your insufferable trolling? Yes.
>
>>>
>>>>>> Then ask some informed, honest and non-prejudicial questions.
>>>>>
>>>>> I did
>>>>
>>>> No, you didn't.
>>>>
>>>>> - you trolled me based on it.
>>>>
>>>> No, I didn't. I called you on it.
>>>>
>>>>> I am asking you, kindly, to stop.
>>>>
>>>> no.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I would prefer if you did, but if you can not, it is simply a poor
>>>>> reflection on you.
>>>>
>>>> You are like an owl in bright light.
>>>
>>> And your comments here reflect on you even more poorly than the lack of
>>> understanding you show, above.
>>
>> ... your ignorance and dishonesty shows itself.
>
>
> Again you sink to accusations.
>
> Do you intend to support them?
I don't have to. You support them very well.
--
Rick
Snit
> On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 17:18:35 -0700, Snit wrote:
>
>> "Rick" <no...@trollfeed.com> wrote in post
>> pan.2005.03.13....@trollfeed.com on 3/12/05 5:08 PM:
>>
>>>>> Then why do apparently not understand that KDE based apps are
>>>>> generally consistent, Gome apps are generally consistent, and other apps
>>>>> may or may not be consistent with Gnome or KDE guidelines?
>>>>
>>>> What makes you jump to that erroneous idea that I have that confusion?
>>>>
>>>> My guess is it comes from my questions dealing with distros that would have
>>>> consistent dialogs by default - a question of mine you never showed any
>>>> understanding of. Do you now understand the question?
>>>
>>> I have answered your question MANY times.
>>>
>>> First (and AGAIN), apps based on a particular environment are generally
>>> consistent with themselves.
>>>
>>> Second, distros usually default to a particular environment but include
>>> other environments and their apps. Deal with it.
>>
>> Thank you for sharing that you still do not understand the question... other
>> than, perhaps, to say that no distro meets the needs I have described and I
>> should simply "deal with it".
>
> I have already said, several time, that I don't think there is a distro,
> or OS, that meets your ...'requirements'.
I hope you are wrong - and others have pointed me in directions that may
very well prove you wrong.
My fear is that you may be right on this.
Why do you think there are no distros of Linux which have consistent and
easy to use (for the population in question) dialogs for most of the major
programs? I would think that there would be such distros... seems, if none
other, the new Ubuntu may do well.
>
>>
>> Others have shown me screen shots and offered descriptions that lead me to
>> believe you are wrong on this, but the questions is, as far as I can tell,
>> still up in the air.
>>>>
>>>> For the record, though, I am still struggling with differentiating between
>>>> WM's and DE's... though I think I am getting it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Go learn that distros are not the same as releases of MacOS and
>>>>>>> window$.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What makes you jump to that erroneous idea that I had that confusion?
>>
>> You never commented on how you came to this erroneous idea about me.
>
> You don't seem to understand the fact that distros come with a wide range
> of software. You keep calling it a weakness.
Your premise is flawed.
>
>>>>>
>>>>> The fact that you keep whining that this or that 'inconsistent' app is
>>>>> bundled in a distro.
>>>>
>>>> Applications *are* bundled with most, if not all, distros. I have shown
>>>> you
>>>> examples of where those bundled apps are inconsistent:
>>>>
>>>> http://myweb.cableone.net/snit/linux/save_dialogs.html
>>>>
>>>> All from one distro and its bundled apps.
>>>
>>> No shit, sherlock. Apps based on different environments are different
>>> compared to each other. Deal with it.
>>
>> Well, then, seems you do not know of any distro that meets my needs, either.
>
> AGAIN, I have stated several times that I don not think there is an OS or
> distro that meets your 'requirements'.
Ok, so we each share that ignorance about Linux - though I still hold out
hope. I also hope you are wrong.
I was commenting on your incorrect claim that I was confused... I ignored
your claim about yourself. While it seems to be faulty, I will not pretend
to know you better than you know yourself. I will not sink to your level on
that.
>
>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Go learn to actually use LiveCDs, and to learn Linux.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That is why I am in COLA... as part of my learning to use Linux.
>>>>>
>>>>> As a teacher, teaching skills, you should know... you learn by doing. Go
>>>>> do some doing.
>>>>
>>>> As I have. Again, Rick, we have covered my lack of hardware already. Are
>>>> you still having troubles understanding that, too?
>>>
>>> You claim you teach students how to use computers in a college setting,
>>> but you say you have no computers. How is that?
>>
>> What are you getting at?
>>
>> Do you think I am allowed to just grab computers from class rooms for my own
>> personal use?
>
> What about you saying you were looking for software ... for your students?
>
>>
>> Would love to see where you are heading with this odd line of questioning.
>
> See above.
When you get the job at the college you can do as you please. For that
matter, I have no need to tell you details of my work life.
>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are you suggesting people should not use Linux until they know it well?
>>>>>
>>>>> No. I am suggesting you go learn Linux well.
>>>>
>>>> Are you suggesting only people who know Linux well should post to COLA?
>>>
>>> No.
>>>
>>>> Are you against questions?
>>>
>>> No.
>>>
>> So you have no problem with my posting. Excellent!
>
> Your dishonesty is showing.
>
> Am I against questions? NO.
> Am I against your insufferable trolling? Yes.
Above you say my posts cause you no tension, but here you call them
"insufferable"...
In any case, I have suggested we both drop this silly game and you have
shown you want it to continue.
The offer is still open... and in any case I will likely grow bored with
this silliness and just stop responding to you in this sub-thread. You
really have nothing to add.
>
>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> Then ask some informed, honest and non-prejudicial questions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I did
>>>>>
>>>>> No, you didn't.
>>>>>
>>>>>> - you trolled me based on it.
>>>>>
>>>>> No, I didn't. I called you on it.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I am asking you, kindly, to stop.
>>>>>
>>>>> no.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would prefer if you did, but if you can not, it is simply a poor
>>>>>> reflection on you.
>>>>>
>>>>> You are like an owl in bright light.
>>>>
>>>> And your comments here reflect on you even more poorly than the lack of
>>>> understanding you show, above.
>>>
>>> ... your ignorance and dishonesty shows itself.
>>
>>
>> Again you sink to accusations.
>>
>> Do you intend to support them?
>
> I don't have to. You support them very well.
In your opinion.
One you can not and will not support.
--
Picture of a tuna soda: http://snipurl.com/bid1
Feel free to ask for the recipe.
Rick
Why? ... Becasue distros generally include at least QT and GTK apps.
>>
>>>
>>> Others have shown me screen shots and offered descriptions that lead me to
>>> believe you are wrong on this, but the questions is, as far as I can tell,
>>> still up in the air.
>>>>>
>>>>> For the record, though, I am still struggling with differentiating between
>>>>> WM's and DE's... though I think I am getting it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Go learn that distros are not the same as releases of MacOS and
>>>>>>>> window$.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What makes you jump to that erroneous idea that I had that confusion?
>>>
>>> You never commented on how you came to this erroneous idea about me.
>>
>> You don't seem to understand the fact that distros come with a wide range
>> of software. You keep calling it a weakness.
>
> Your premise is flawed.
I see you can't come with anything original.
>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The fact that you keep whining that this or that 'inconsistent' app is
>>>>>> bundled in a distro.
>>>>>
>>>>> Applications *are* bundled with most, if not all, distros. I have shown
>>>>> you
>>>>> examples of where those bundled apps are inconsistent:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://myweb.cableone.net/snit/linux/save_dialogs.html
>>>>>
>>>>> All from one distro and its bundled apps.
>>>>
>>>> No shit, sherlock. Apps based on different environments are different
>>>> compared to each other. Deal with it.
>>>
>>> Well, then, seems you do not know of any distro that meets my needs, either.
>>
>> AGAIN, I have stated several times that I don not think there is an OS or
>> distro that meets your 'requirements'.
>
> Ok, so we each share that ignorance about Linux
No, we don't.
>> ... nice evading my statement of " and I fell no tension what-so-ever."
>
> I was commenting on your incorrect claim that I was confused... I
> ignored your claim about yourself.
It's not a claim. Since I know if I am sufferingg from tension or not, I
can make a statement of fact.
> While it seems to be faulty, I will
> not pretend to know you better than you know yourself. I will not sink
> to your level on that.
You can arrange for treatment of you passive-aggressive disorder.
>>>>>>>> Go learn to actually use LiveCDs, and to learn Linux.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That is why I am in COLA... as part of my learning to use Linux.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As a teacher, teaching skills, you should know... you learn by
>>>>>> doing. Go do some doing.
>>>>>
>>>>> As I have. Again, Rick, we have covered my lack of hardware
>>>>> already. Are you still having troubles understanding that, too?
>>>>
>>>> You claim you teach students how to use computers in a college
>>>> setting, but you say you have no computers. How is that?
>>>
>>> What are you getting at?
>>>
>>> Do you think I am allowed to just grab computers from class rooms for
>>> my own personal use?
>>
>> What about you saying you were looking for software ... for your
>> students?
>>
>>
>>> Would love to see where you are heading with this odd line of
>>> questioning.
>>
>> See above.
>
> When you get the job at the college you can do as you please.
-The job- ... at -the college-? Would any job at any secondary or post
secondary job doe?
> For that
> matter, I have no need to tell you details of my work life.
That's nice.
>>>>>>> Are you suggesting people should not use Linux until they know it
>>>>>>> well?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No. I am suggesting you go learn Linux well.
>>>>>
>>>>> Are you suggesting only people who know Linux well should post to
>>>>> COLA?
>>>>
>>>> No.
>>>>
>>>>> Are you against questions?
>>>>
>>>> No.
>>>>
>>> So you have no problem with my posting. Excellent!
>>
>> Your dishonesty is showing.
>>
>> Am I against questions? NO.
>> Am I against your insufferable trolling? Yes.
>
> Above you say my posts cause you no tension, but here you call them
> "insufferable"...
>
> In any case, I have suggested we both drop this silly game and you have
> shown you want it to continue.
Then go trundle off and get some information so you ask some informed
questions without making your bigoted judgments.
>
> The offer is still open... and in any case I will likely grow bored with
> this silliness and just stop responding to you in this sub-thread.
Oh, well...
> You really have nothing to add.
You refuse to listen.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>>>>>> Then ask some informed, honest and non-prejudicial questions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I did
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, you didn't.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - you trolled me based on it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, I didn't. I called you on it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am asking you, kindly, to stop.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> no.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would prefer if you did, but if you can not, it is simply a poor
>>>>>>> reflection on you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are like an owl in bright light.
>>>>>
>>>>> And your comments here reflect on you even more poorly than the lack
>>>>> of understanding you show, above.
>>>>
>>>> ... your ignorance and dishonesty shows itself.
>>>
>>>
>>> Again you sink to accusations.
>>>
>>> Do you intend to support them?
>>
>> I don't have to. You support them very well.
>
> In your opinion.
>
> One you can not and will not support.
Treatment. Yes. Treatment.
--
Rick
Snit
Your premise is flawed.
>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Others have shown me screen shots and offered descriptions that lead me to
>>>> believe you are wrong on this, but the questions is, as far as I can tell,
>>>> still up in the air.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For the record, though, I am still struggling with differentiating
>>>>>> between
>>>>>> WM's and DE's... though I think I am getting it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Go learn that distros are not the same as releases of MacOS and
>>>>>>>>> window$.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What makes you jump to that erroneous idea that I had that confusion?
>>>>
>>>> You never commented on how you came to this erroneous idea about me.
>>>
>>> You don't seem to understand the fact that distros come with a wide range
>>> of software. You keep calling it a weakness.
>>
>> Your premise is flawed.
>
> I see you can't come with anything original.
Your conclusion is flawed.
>
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The fact that you keep whining that this or that 'inconsistent' app is
>>>>>>> bundled in a distro.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Applications *are* bundled with most, if not all, distros. I have shown
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> examples of where those bundled apps are inconsistent:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://myweb.cableone.net/snit/linux/save_dialogs.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All from one distro and its bundled apps.
>>>>>
>>>>> No shit, sherlock. Apps based on different environments are different
>>>>> compared to each other. Deal with it.
>>>>
>>>> Well, then, seems you do not know of any distro that meets my needs,
>>>> either.
>>>
>>> AGAIN, I have stated several times that I don not think there is an OS or
>>> distro that meets your 'requirements'.
>>
>> Ok, so we each share that ignorance about Linux
>
> No, we don't.
Well, OK, you have the ignorance and I still have hope. Thank you for the
correction.
And yet you think you can also comment about me and treat that as fact -
even when I tell you that you are wrong.
Why the hypocrisy from you?
>
>> While it seems to be faulty, I will
>> not pretend to know you better than you know yourself. I will not sink
>> to your level on that.
>
> You can arrange for treatment of you passive-aggressive disorder.
Your premise is flawed, as is your grammar.
>
>
>>>>>>>>> Go learn to actually use LiveCDs, and to learn Linux.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That is why I am in COLA... as part of my learning to use Linux.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As a teacher, teaching skills, you should know... you learn by
>>>>>>> doing. Go do some doing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As I have. Again, Rick, we have covered my lack of hardware
>>>>>> already. Are you still having troubles understanding that, too?
>>>>>
>>>>> You claim you teach students how to use computers in a college
>>>>> setting, but you say you have no computers. How is that?
>>>>
>>>> What are you getting at?
>>>>
>>>> Do you think I am allowed to just grab computers from class rooms for
>>>> my own personal use?
>>>
>>> What about you saying you were looking for software ... for your
>>> students?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Would love to see where you are heading with this odd line of
>>>> questioning.
>>>
>>> See above.
>>
>> When you get the job at the college you can do as you please.
>
> -The job- ... at -the college-? Would any job at any secondary or post
> secondary job doe?
No. Please stick to the college I work at. Please note I have not even told
you which, so your task will be a challenge.
>
>> For that
>> matter, I have no need to tell you details of my work life.
>
> That's nice.
>
>>>>>>>> Are you suggesting people should not use Linux until they know it
>>>>>>>> well?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No. I am suggesting you go learn Linux well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are you suggesting only people who know Linux well should post to
>>>>>> COLA?
>>>>>
>>>>> No.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Are you against questions?
>>>>>
>>>>> No.
>>>>>
>>>> So you have no problem with my posting. Excellent!
>>>
>>> Your dishonesty is showing.
>>>
>>> Am I against questions? NO.
>>> Am I against your insufferable trolling? Yes.
>>
>> Above you say my posts cause you no tension, but here you call them
>> "insufferable"...
>>
>> In any case, I have suggested we both drop this silly game and you have
>> shown you want it to continue.
>
> Then go trundle off and get some information so you ask some informed
> questions without making your bigoted judgments.
I have. You flamed and belittled me for it. Do you need specific examples
of where you did so?
>
>>
>> The offer is still open... and in any case I will likely grow bored with
>> this silliness and just stop responding to you in this sub-thread.
>
> Oh, well...
>
>> You really have nothing to add.
>
> You refuse to listen.
Your conclusion is flawed.
>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Then ask some informed, honest and non-prejudicial questions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I did
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, you didn't.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - you trolled me based on it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, I didn't. I called you on it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am asking you, kindly, to stop.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> no.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would prefer if you did, but if you can not, it is simply a poor
>>>>>>>> reflection on you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You are like an owl in bright light.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And your comments here reflect on you even more poorly than the lack
>>>>>> of understanding you show, above.
>>>>>
>>>>> ... your ignorance and dishonesty shows itself.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Again you sink to accusations.
>>>>
>>>> Do you intend to support them?
>>>
>>> I don't have to. You support them very well.
>>
>> In your opinion.
>>
>> One you can not and will not support.
>
> Treatment. Yes. Treatment.
Good idea. When will you start?
--
Look, this is silly. It's not an argument, it's an armor plated walrus with
walnut paneling and an all leather interior.
Rick
Really? Point out the flaw, if you can.
>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Others have shown me screen shots and offered descriptions that lead me to
>>>>> believe you are wrong on this, but the questions is, as far as I can tell,
>>>>> still up in the air.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For the record, though, I am still struggling with differentiating
>>>>>>> between
>>>>>>> WM's and DE's... though I think I am getting it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Go learn that distros are not the same as releases of MacOS and
>>>>>>>>>> window$.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What makes you jump to that erroneous idea that I had that confusion?
>>>>>
>>>>> You never commented on how you came to this erroneous idea about me.
>>>>
>>>> You don't seem to understand the fact that distros come with a wide range
>>>> of software. You keep calling it a weakness.
>>>
>>> Your premise is flawed.
>>
>> I see you can't come with anything original.
>
> Your conclusion is flawed.
Really? Point out the flaw.
>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The fact that you keep whining that this or that 'inconsistent' app is
>>>>>>>> bundled in a distro.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Applications *are* bundled with most, if not all, distros. I have shown
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> examples of where those bundled apps are inconsistent:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://myweb.cableone.net/snit/linux/save_dialogs.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All from one distro and its bundled apps.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No shit, sherlock. Apps based on different environments are different
>>>>>> compared to each other. Deal with it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, then, seems you do not know of any distro that meets my needs,
>>>>> either.
>>>>
>>>> AGAIN, I have stated several times that I don not think there is an OS or
>>>> distro that meets your 'requirements'.
>>>
>>> Ok, so we each share that ignorance about Linux
>>
>> No, we don't.
>
> Well, OK, you have the ignorance and I still have hope. Thank you for the
> correction.
You do must looking stupid ...
There is no hypocrisy.
>>
>>> While it seems to be faulty, I will
>>> not pretend to know you better than you know yourself. I will not sink
>>> to your level on that.
>>
>> You can arrange for treatment of you passive-aggressive disorder.
>
> Your premise is flawed, as is your grammar.
!. Point out the flaw.
2. There was no grammar error. There was a typing error.
>>
>>
>>>>>>>>>> Go learn to actually use LiveCDs, and to learn Linux.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That is why I am in COLA... as part of my learning to use Linux.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As a teacher, teaching skills, you should know... you learn by
>>>>>>>> doing. Go do some doing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As I have. Again, Rick, we have covered my lack of hardware
>>>>>>> already. Are you still having troubles understanding that, too?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You claim you teach students how to use computers in a college
>>>>>> setting, but you say you have no computers. How is that?
>>>>>
>>>>> What are you getting at?
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you think I am allowed to just grab computers from class rooms for
>>>>> my own personal use?
>>>>
>>>> What about you saying you were looking for software ... for your
>>>> students?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Would love to see where you are heading with this odd line of
>>>>> questioning.
>>>>
>>>> See above.
>>>
>>> When you get the job at the college you can do as you please.
>>
>> -The job- ... at -the college-? Would any job at any secondary or post
>> secondary job doe?
>
> No. Please stick to the college I work at. Please note I have not even told
> you which, so your task will be a challenge.
So, you want me to take your job?
>>
>>> For that
>>> matter, I have no need to tell you details of my work life.
>>
>> That's nice.
>>
>>>>>>>>> Are you suggesting people should not use Linux until they know it
>>>>>>>>> well?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No. I am suggesting you go learn Linux well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Are you suggesting only people who know Linux well should post to
>>>>>>> COLA?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Are you against questions?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No.
>>>>>>
>>>>> So you have no problem with my posting. Excellent!
>>>>
>>>> Your dishonesty is showing.
>>>>
>>>> Am I against questions? NO.
>>>> Am I against your insufferable trolling? Yes.
>>>
>>> Above you say my posts cause you no tension, but here you call them
>>> "insufferable"...
>>>
>>> In any case, I have suggested we both drop this silly game and you have
>>> shown you want it to continue.
>>
>> Then go trundle off and get some information so you ask some informed
>> questions without making your bigoted judgments.
>
> I have. You flamed and belittled me for it.
You forgot the informed questions part.
> Do you need specific examples of where you did so?
No.
>>
>>>
>>> The offer is still open... and in any case I will likely grow bored with
>>> this silliness and just stop responding to you in this sub-thread.
>>
>> Oh, well...
>>
>>> You really have nothing to add.
>>
>> You refuse to listen.
>
> Your conclusion is flawed.
No, it isn't.
>>>>>>>>>> Then ask some informed, honest and non-prejudicial questions.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I did
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, you didn't.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> - you trolled me based on it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, I didn't. I called you on it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am asking you, kindly, to stop.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> no.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I would prefer if you did, but if you can not, it is simply a poor
>>>>>>>>> reflection on you.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You are like an owl in bright light.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And your comments here reflect on you even more poorly than the lack
>>>>>>> of understanding you show, above.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ... your ignorance and dishonesty shows itself.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Again you sink to accusations.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you intend to support them?
>>>>
>>>> I don't have to. You support them very well.
>>>
>>> In your opinion.
>>>
>>> One you can not and will not support.
>>
>> Treatment. Yes. Treatment.
>
> Good idea. When will you start?
You see... you really do need it...
Denial ain't just a river.
--
Rick
Mark Kent
Rick <no...@trollfeed.com> espoused:
Snit is one of the worst and most obnoxious trolls I've seen.
--
end
| Mark Kent -- mark at ellandroad dot demon dot co dot uk |
If God had intended Man to Watch TV, He would have given him Rabbit Ears.
Mark Kent
Kier <val...@tiscali.co.uk> espoused:
> On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 14:17:44 +0000, Mark Kent wrote:
>
>> Kier <val...@tiscali.co.uk> espoused:
>>> On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 18:56:41 -0700, Snit wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Roy Culley" <r...@nodomain.none> wrote in post
>>>> 98u9g2-...@nw8000.swissptt.ch on 3/11/05 6:46 PM:
>>>>
>>>>> begin risky.vbs
>>>>> <BE5793B4.91CE%SN...@cable0ne.net.invalid>,
>>>>> Snit <SN...@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am sure we all notice that many of posts in the groups are flames
>>>>>> against one another - I certainly do not hold myself above this
>>>>>> ... I point out others, um, weaknesses, as well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know full well why I like to... but I am curious why you feel you
>>>>>> do (if you do, as most of the regulars do) or why you think others
>>>>>> do. I am not interested in seeing people point fingers at each
>>>>>> other... though that may be unavoidable if people give specific
>>>>>> examples. This I can understand - I know when I make points I use
>>>>>> very specific examples - the main reason so many of the trolls in
>>>>>> CSMA hate me.
>>>>>
>>>>> COLA has been infested with what we call wintrolls for years. These
>>>>> are posters whose sole purpose is to incite flame wars. A nasty
>>>>> development a year or so ago was for some of these wintrolls to
>>>>> crosspost to other newsgroups in the hope of causing more disruption.
>>>>>
>>>>> You appear to be in the latter category. Starting crossposted threads
>>>>> for the simple purpose of hoping to generate a flame war.
>>>>
>>>> I post in both - mostly so that Mac users can see the experience of a Mac
>>>> user learning Linux. Serves both groups well... if people are reasonable.
>>
>> Advocacy groups are entirely inappropriate for such things.
>
> I wouldn't agree entirely on that point, I have to say. IMO, that's where
> such discussions should take place, *if* most people behaved reasonably.
> But as we know, it's often the reverse.
It depends a lot on how the material is worded in the first place. Snit's
posts are frequently aggressive, argumentative, reach conclusions on limited
data at best, all in all, far too opinionated without support facts. That's
what I mean is inappropriate material, particularly for cross-posting. It's
even worse when OPs have told Snit about this - rather than fix the problem,
(s)he just engages in flaming.
If I were looking at well written, well reasoned material, with at least
a passing attempt at balance, then things might be different.
>
>>
>>>
>>> People often aren't. And many posters in COLA dump all crossposted
>>> messages, becasue of the activities of idiots from alt.os.windows-xp and
>>> the like.
>>>
>>
>> I'm always deeply suspicious of anyone cross-posting. There are almost
>> never reasons to do so, and there is certainly no reason whatsoever to
>> engage in trolling across multiple groups, as SNIT has done numerous
>> times. It's just bad behaviour.
>
> I think the threads Snit's been involved in spun off from already
> cross-posted threads started by others. He seems to have had his interest
> in linux roused by something he's read in COLA, and simply continued the
> cross-posts as he asked questions about the suitability of linux for the
> group of people (i.e his students) that he had in mind to maybe recommend
> linux to. I don't think you can necessarily call that trolling, though
> he's occasionally expressed himself badly, and been rather obtuse. But
> then, by definition, newbies don't know what they're talking about, do
> they - else they'd not be newbies, right?
He's spent a lot of time telling other people they don't know what they're
talking about, which is very much trolling. He seems unaware of his own
limitations, yet is able to make amazing broad-brush, blanket claims
about the capabilities and needs of other people. He claims to be a
computer consultant and lecturer, yet shows not the slightest interest in
learning or researching. He was even introduced to a local LUG, *after*
having claimed, in rather obnoxious fashion, that there weren't any in
his area, and never turned up. Nor did he comment, nor even apologise.
I attempted to discuss with him exactly what his 'newbies' wanted,
and could not ever even determine if there were one, several, loads.
He even claimed to have worked with thousands (yes, 1000s) of newbies
and new all their requirements well, which clearly cannot be true.
I'm not so convinced that our snitty friend is anything other than a
dweller of the deep like flatty. He's a slightly different breed, he
maintains a low-level of anti-social behaviour on a continuous basis,
is slightly provocative almost all of the time.
>
> He may be a troll in CSMA, or be considered to be one, but those who
> accuse him of that don't seem to be better behaved. I've advised Snit to
> keep his Linux discussion in COLA, rather than cross-post them - it
> remains to be seen whether he will take the advice.
There've clearly been some serious problems with Snit in CSMA. Whilst
I agree that you could argue this seems to be both-ways to an extent,
I would point out that there are not groups of people turning up to
accuse the accusers, as it were, so it does suggest that Snit is the
cause of the problem.
>
> (Fup2COLA)
>
'bout time too. I got caught into this too, and shouldn't've done.
I don't think I've ever regularly cross-posted before, and I don't think
I will again. Snit will remain, where he belongs, at -9999, with all
the other trolls.
Mark Kent
Elizabot v2.0.2 <Eliz...@NsOpSyPmAaMc.com> espoused:
> Snit wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>>
>> Fair enough - and that is something I should have anticipated... while I can
>> not control the actions of those that troll in CSMA, I can surely predict
>> it... and I knew they would likely troll me... and since I cross posted they
>> would use that as an excuse to disrupt both groups instead of just one.
>
> Don't play "Mr. Innocent", Snit. You have *bragged* about hitting your
> goal of posts talking about you.
>
> In April of 2004 you wrote:
>
> In article <BCAC6CB3.4A3F6%sn...@nospam-cableone.net>,
> 尬≡ <s...@nospam-cableone.net> wrote:
>
>
> I have hit my goal of posts talking about me... so there is no need for
> anything else.
>
>
> Stats from the last week (according to Google):
> Posts from me: 59
> Posts with the word "snit" in them: 661
> Total posts: 2420
>
>
<snip>
Which is why trolls, including Snit, are best killfiled.
Mark Kent
Steve Carroll <no...@nowhere.com> espoused:
> In article <pan.2005.03.12....@tiscali.co.uk>,
> Kier <val...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>> I think the threads Snit's been involved in spun off from already
>> cross-posted threads started by others.
>
>
> Here's a sampling from just the last few days of the cross-posted
> threads Snit started:
>
> 1 - Mandrake disappointment
>
> 2 - Working with Linux on a PC
>
> 3 - Got Linux to boot!
>
> 4 - Article: From GUI-Avoider to OS X
>
> 5 - First impressions of Knoppix
>
> 6 - What about CSMA / COLA makes people flame?
>
>
>
That's exactly what I'd thought, although I didn't check it.
Kier - you've been had, and trolled big-time.
Kier
> begin doom.scr
> Rick <no...@trollfeed.com> espoused:
>> On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 13:00:37 -0700, Snit wrote:
>>
>> (snip)
>>>
>>> is Rick considered a "regular Linux advocate"... he has done little else
>>> other than troll me since I started posting here.
>>
>> Your enormous ignorance is matched only by your dishonesty.
>>
>
> Snit is one of the worst and most obnoxious trolls I've seen.
Really? Then you can't have seen many.
--
Kier
Mark Kent
I've seen a lot. Snit's technique is despicable, because it's so underhand.
Most of the trolls I see make a lot of noise, use a lot of very grown-up
barrack-room language, or follow a fairly overt line (astroturfing). Some
of them seem strangely confused (gary stewart/flatty), some start out as
reasonable posters, but something pushes them over the edge. Some, like
k-man, thrive on attention, but are very overt in trying to get it.
Snit is different. Snit shows signs of intelligence, but a continuous
background level of belligerence and provocation. (S)he's more like a
chinese water torture than a medieval rack. Coupled with a stunning
willingness to pretty much any kind of disinegnuous statement, like
billwg!!!!! or Erik Funkenbusch makes for a combination which is pretty
bad. Link that to a very overt attempt to start a flame war between
cola and csma, and a lot of effort put into keeping that war going,
particularly when it's looked like it would calm down, as it has on
several occasions. Then there're the partial olive branches, and the
'everyone else is awful but you're nice' attempts to gain a couple of
allies - also pretty overtly done, but in a seemingly almost naive way.
Did you see his excuse for x-posting? It was awful.
I'd rate that as pretty obnoxious. I've not seen anyone with such a
wide range of well-honed troll techniques, able and willing to use
all of them all of the time.
Snit
uep01d...@ellandroad.demon.co.uk on 3/13/05 12:17 AM:
>>> Advocacy groups are entirely inappropriate for such things.
>>
>> I wouldn't agree entirely on that point, I have to say. IMO, that's where
>> such discussions should take place, *if* most people behaved reasonably.
>> But as we know, it's often the reverse.
>
> It depends a lot on how the material is worded in the first place. Snit's
> posts are frequently aggressive, argumentative, reach conclusions on limited
> data at best, all in all, far too opinionated without support facts.
This should be good - let's see your "support facts" to to your claims
there. Then perhaps we can compare your comments to mine and see who is the
most argumentative and aggressive.
> That's what I mean is inappropriate material, particularly for cross-posting.
> It's even worse when OPs have told Snit about this - rather than fix the
> problem, (s)he just engages in flaming.
Again, shall we compare my posts and yours? Compare the percent of cross
posting we have each done in the last week?
>
> If I were looking at well written, well reasoned material, with at least
> a passing attempt at balance, then things might be different.
You disagree so you flame, and then you call me aggressive. That is your
choice...
>>>>
>>>> People often aren't. And many posters in COLA dump all crossposted
>>>> messages, becasue of the activities of idiots from alt.os.windows-xp and
>>>> the like.
>>>
>>> I'm always deeply suspicious of anyone cross-posting. There are almost
>>> never reasons to do so, and there is certainly no reason whatsoever to
>>> engage in trolling across multiple groups, as SNIT has done numerous
>>> times. It's just bad behaviour.
>>
>> I think the threads Snit's been involved in spun off from already
>> cross-posted threads started by others. He seems to have had his interest
>> in linux roused by something he's read in COLA, and simply continued the
>> cross-posts as he asked questions about the suitability of linux for the
>> group of people (i.e his students) that he had in mind to maybe recommend
>> linux to. I don't think you can necessarily call that trolling, though
>> he's occasionally expressed himself badly, and been rather obtuse. But
>> then, by definition, newbies don't know what they're talking about, do
>> they - else they'd not be newbies, right?
>
> He's spent a lot of time telling other people they don't know what they're
> talking about, which is very much trolling.
Only Rick - and only in response to his silly flaming of me.
> He seems unaware of his own limitations, yet is able to make amazing
> broad-brush, blanket claims about the capabilities and needs of other people.
I am able to talk about the needs of people I have been working with for
many, many years. Yes. I can tell you very specifically reasons why I have
come to the conclusions I have. Keep in mind what I am looking for
* consistent and easy to use dialogs
* consistent and easy to use window widgets
* consistent methods to do common tasks (such as make new folders)
* windowing that has an attractive and reasonably high contrast look
(I pointed to the defaults on a LiveCD that did not meet this)
* a relatively simple interface with little clutter
None of this is that controversial - or should be. As it stands I have not
seen a version / distro of Linux that meets these needs - though I have been
shown screen shots from the new Ubuntu that may very well (and no, I am not
suggesting that is the only distro, just happens to be the one I was shown
screen shots to). Nor have I tried Mandrake or SuSE, two distros that have
been suggested to me as ones that may meet my needs.
> He claims to be a computer consultant and lecturer, yet shows not the
> slightest interest in learning or researching.
Hmmm, have you been reading any of my posts? No interest? Sure - I am far
from being an expert in Linux - but keep in mind I am new to it and lacking
in hardware to test it.
> He was even introduced to a local LUG, *after* having claimed, in rather
> obnoxious fashion, that there weren't any in his area, and never turned up.
LOL... ah, you have been listening to Elizabot... do you know the history
there? She is an emotional pre-teen with an obsessive crush on me... and
about 99% of her posts are to or about me.
In any case, did you bother to ask if I really had gone? Did you bother to
ask what happened? Did you bother to ask anything... no, you did not.
You are simply making assumptions based on no data - and then accusing me of
doing what *you* are doing.
> Nor did he comment, nor even apologise. I attempted to discuss with him
> exactly what his 'newbies' wanted, and could not ever even determine if there
> were one, several, loads. He even claimed to have worked with thousands (yes,
> 1000s) of newbies and new all their requirements well, which clearly cannot be
> true.
I have been very clear with you on this: I am a instructor at a local
college where I teach, among others, intro classes. I also do private
consulting where most of my clients are older, non-technical users. I have
also worked in many other capacities over the years working with relatively
new (and also very experienced) users - and yes, the number of people I have
had direct contact with and have worked with in this capacity is well over
1000 and likely over 2000. I surely could not give you an exact number.
You, on the other hand, showed no capacity to understand such things and
were clearly trolling and flaming instead of showing any interest in
understanding. Do you need me to pull up quotes from our conversations to
support this claim of mine?
>
> I'm not so convinced that our snitty friend is anything other than a
> dweller of the deep like flatty. He's a slightly different breed, he
> maintains a low-level of anti-social behaviour on a continuous basis,
> is slightly provocative almost all of the time.
Again, shall we compare our early conversations and see who was provoking
whom? When I commented on having problems getting a couple of ISO's to burn
- a problem which has since been solved - you responded by saying you did
not know why I was even posting here. When I told you my students use MS
Word and that having access to it was important to them you told me that
this looks to you like a troll... as though you could not believe that
people need MS Word or something very much like it.
From there you went on bragging about what your children can do, as though
that was supposed to be a reasoned counter-example to refute what I have
seen with many, many (call it "merely" many hundreds if you prefer) of new
and non-techy users... many of them older. I pointed this out, and you kept
running back to your kids - so I asked you if you thought they were an
average example, and you took offense.
You also trolled me when I commented about how there was no easy way for
most users to get to experience different distros of Linux - which is
completely true, esp. for the population in question. You showed a very
poor understanding and started ranting and trolling about how this must mean
I can not pick shoes! Well, you know what, I would *not* pick shoes I was
not familiar with from a web store, I would try them on first... which is a
point you showed no capacity to understand.
From there you sank to meaningless flames such as:
I've finally realised where I've come across snit behaviour before.
It's the Mrs, on a monthly basis...
I postulate that snit is a menopausal female, or wants to be one.
While you may be able to argue that some of the above was from some
misunderstanding and that you should not be held accountable, clearly this
was a pattern to your commentary.
>>
>> He may be a troll in CSMA, or be considered to be one, but those who
>> accuse him of that don't seem to be better behaved. I've advised Snit to
>> keep his Linux discussion in COLA, rather than cross-post them - it
>> remains to be seen whether he will take the advice.
>
> There've clearly been some serious problems with Snit in CSMA. Whilst
> I agree that you could argue this seems to be both-ways to an extent,
> I would point out that there are not groups of people turning up to
> accuse the accusers, as it were, so it does suggest that Snit is the
> cause of the problem.
I certainly have pissed off many trolls in CSMA. Care to look at the posts?
>>
>> (Fup2COLA)
>
> 'bout time too. I got caught into this too, and shouldn't've done.
> I don't think I've ever regularly cross-posted before, and I don't think
> I will again. Snit will remain, where he belongs, at -9999, with all
> the other trolls.
And yet you will continue to bad mouth me. Poor form, and a good indication
you are merely trolling / flaming.
--
I am one of only .3% of people who have avoided becoming a statistic.
Rick
> "Mark Kent" <mark...@demon.co.uk> wrote in post
> uep01d...@ellandroad.demon.co.uk on 3/13/05 12:17 AM:
>
>>>> Advocacy groups are entirely inappropriate for such things.
>>>
>>> I wouldn't agree entirely on that point, I have to say. IMO, that's where
>>> such discussions should take place, *if* most people behaved reasonably.
>>> But as we know, it's often the reverse.
>>
>> It depends a lot on how the material is worded in the first place. Snit's
>> posts are frequently aggressive, argumentative, reach conclusions on limited
>> data at best, all in all, far too opinionated without support facts.
>
> This should be good - let's see your "support facts" to to your claims
> there. Then perhaps we can compare your comments to mine and see who is the
> most argumentative and aggressive.
>
It would take too much space to paste the message IDs, much less the
quotes.
(snip)
>>
>> He's spent a lot of time telling other people they don't know what they're
>> talking about, which is very much trolling.
>
> Only Rick - and only in response to his silly flaming of me.
I've called you on your passive-aggressive BS.
... and I've pointed you to information, which you have usually refused.
>
>> He seems unaware of his own limitations,
My limitations? Mine? Compared to you I have none... but that is only
compared to you using Linux.
> yet is able to make amazing
>> broad-brush, blanket claims about the capabilities and needs of other people.
>
> I am able to talk about the needs of people I have been working with for
> many, many years. Yes. I can tell you very specifically reasons why I have
> come to the conclusions I have. Keep in mind what I am looking for
>
> * consistent and easy to use dialogs
> * consistent and easy to use window widgets
> * consistent methods to do common tasks (such as make new folders)
> * windowing that has an attractive and reasonably high contrast look
> (I pointed to the defaults on a LiveCD that did not meet this)
> * a relatively simple interface with little clutter
>
> None of this is that controversial - or should be. As it stands I have not
> seen a version / distro of Linux that meets these needs -
Have you found any OS that specifically meets those requirements?
> though I have been
> shown screen shots from the new Ubuntu that may very well (and no, I am not
> suggesting that is the only distro, just happens to be the one I was shown
> screen shots to). Nor have I tried Mandrake or SuSE, two distros that have
> been suggested to me as ones that may meet my needs.
>
>> He claims to be a computer consultant and lecturer, yet shows not the
>> slightest interest in learning or researching.
>
> Hmmm, have you been reading any of my posts? No interest? Sure - I am far
> from being an expert in Linux - but keep in mind I am new to it and lacking
> in hardware to test it.
You have access to computers at work.
You have at leas one at work.
I infer from you questions about Cruzers that you have at least one.
frot he above, you have pleanty of hardware to test Linux.
>
>> He was even introduced to a local LUG, *after* having claimed, in rather
>> obnoxious fashion, that there weren't any in his area, and never turned up.
>
> LOL... ah, you have been listening to Elizabot... do you know the history
> there? She is an emotional pre-teen with an obsessive crush on me... and
> about 99% of her posts are to or about me.
You may now post the age of this 'pre-teen'.
>
> In any case, did you bother to ask if I really had gone? Did you bother to
> ask what happened? Did you bother to ask anything... no, you did not.
>
> You are simply making assumptions based on no data - and then accusing me of
> doing what *you* are doing.
>
>> Nor did he comment, nor even apologise. I attempted to discuss with him
>> exactly what his 'newbies' wanted, and could not ever even determine if there
>> were one, several, loads. He even claimed to have worked with thousands (yes,
>> 1000s) of newbies and new all their requirements well, which clearly cannot be
>> true.
>
> I have been very clear with you on this: I am a instructor at a local
> college where I teach, among others, intro classes. I also do private
> consulting where most of my clients are older, non-technical users. I have
> also worked in many other capacities over the years working with relatively
> new (and also very experienced) users - and yes, the number of people I have
> had direct contact with and have worked with in this capacity is well over
> 1000 and likely over 2000. I surely could not give you an exact number.
Interesting claims...
Are you just throwing your resume around to impress people?
>
> You, on the other hand, showed no capacity to understand such things and
> were clearly trolling and flaming instead of showing any interest in
> understanding. Do you need me to pull up quotes from our conversations to
> support this claim of mine?
You show no understanding of flaming.
>>
>> I'm not so convinced that our snitty friend is anything other than a
>> dweller of the deep like flatty. He's a slightly different breed, he
>> maintains a low-level of anti-social behaviour on a continuous basis,
>> is slightly provocative almost all of the time.
>
> Again, shall we compare our early conversations and see who was provoking
> whom? When I commented on having problems getting a couple of ISO's to burn
> - a problem which has since been solved - you responded by saying you did
> not know why I was even posting here.
Why would you post questions about CD burning to an advocacy group instead
of a technical group?
> When I told you my students use MS
> Word and that having access to it was important to them you told me that
> this looks to you like a troll... as though you could not believe that
> people need MS Word or something very much like it.
... as in why are you researching Linux for 'non-techincal' people that
need access to Word?
>
> From there you went on bragging about what your children can do, as though
> that was supposed to be a reasoned counter-example to refute what I have
> seen with many, many (call it "merely" many hundreds if you prefer) of new
> and non-techy users... many of them older. I pointed this out, and you kept
> running back to your kids - so I asked you if you thought they were an
> average example, and you took offense.
That was your inference. He didnnt seem to take offense to me.
>
> You also trolled me when I commented about how there was no easy way for
> most users to get to experience different distros of Linux - which is
> completely true, esp. for the population in question.
Except the same easy way most users have for getting experience with
windows or OS X.
> You showed a very
> poor understanding and started ranting and trolling about how this must mean
> I can not pick shoes! Well, you know what, I would *not* pick shoes I was
> not familiar with from a web store, I would try them on first... which is a
> point you showed no capacity to understand.
>
> From there you sank to meaningless flames such as:
>
> I've finally realised where I've come across snit behaviour before.
> It's the Mrs, on a monthly basis...
>
> I postulate that snit is a menopausal female, or wants to be one.
>
> While you may be able to argue that some of the above was from some
> misunderstanding and that you should not be held accountable, clearly this
> was a pattern to your commentary.
>>>
>>> He may be a troll in CSMA, or be considered to be one, but those who
>>> accuse him of that don't seem to be better behaved. I've advised Snit to
>>> keep his Linux discussion in COLA, rather than cross-post them - it
>>> remains to be seen whether he will take the advice.
>>
>> There've clearly been some serious problems with Snit in CSMA. Whilst
>> I agree that you could argue this seems to be both-ways to an extent,
>> I would point out that there are not groups of people turning up to
>> accuse the accusers, as it were, so it does suggest that Snit is the
>> cause of the problem.
>
> I certainly have pissed off many trolls in CSMA. Care to look at the posts?
from the comments, it looks like you annoyed almost everyone in CSMA at
one time or another.
>>>
>>> (Fup2COLA)
>>
>> 'bout time too. I got caught into this too, and shouldn't've done.
>> I don't think I've ever regularly cross-posted before, and I don't think
>> I will again. Snit will remain, where he belongs, at -9999, with all
>> the other trolls.
>
> And yet you will continue to bad mouth me. Poor form, and a good indication
> you are merely trolling / flaming.
Nope, it's calling a spade a shovel.
--
Rick
Snit
> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 08:03:29 -0700, Snit wrote:
>
>> "Mark Kent" <mark...@demon.co.uk> wrote in post
>> uep01d...@ellandroad.demon.co.uk on 3/13/05 12:17 AM:
>>
>>>>> Advocacy groups are entirely inappropriate for such things.
>>>>
>>>> I wouldn't agree entirely on that point, I have to say. IMO, that's where
>>>> such discussions should take place, *if* most people behaved reasonably.
>>>> But as we know, it's often the reverse.
>>>
>>> It depends a lot on how the material is worded in the first place. Snit's
>>> posts are frequently aggressive, argumentative, reach conclusions on limited
>>> data at best, all in all, far too opinionated without support facts.
>>
>> This should be good - let's see your "support facts" to to your claims
>> there. Then perhaps we can compare your comments to mine and see who is the
>> most argumentative and aggressive.
>
> It would take too much space to paste the message IDs, much less the
> quotes.
I did not ask for all examples, just some facts to support the claim.
>
> (snip)
>>>
>>> He's spent a lot of time telling other people they don't know what they're
>>> talking about, which is very much trolling.
>>
>> Only Rick - and only in response to his silly flaming of me.
>
> I've called you on your passive-aggressive BS.
>
> ... and I've pointed you to information, which you have usually refused.
>
>
>>
>>> He seems unaware of his own limitations,
>
> My limitations? Mine? Compared to you I have none... but that is only
> compared to you using Linux.
Do you realize you are in response to Kent's claims about me? Why are you
acting like they are about you?
I hope you simply admit to your error... but based on your history it is not
likely.
>
>> yet is able to make amazing
>>> broad-brush, blanket claims about the capabilities and needs of other
>>> people.
>>
>> I am able to talk about the needs of people I have been working with for
>> many, many years. Yes. I can tell you very specifically reasons why I have
>> come to the conclusions I have. Keep in mind what I am looking for
>>
>> * consistent and easy to use dialogs
>> * consistent and easy to use window widgets
>> * consistent methods to do common tasks (such as make new folders)
>> * windowing that has an attractive and reasonably high contrast look
>> (I pointed to the defaults on a LiveCD that did not meet this)
>> * a relatively simple interface with little clutter
>>
>> None of this is that controversial - or should be. As it stands I have not
>> seen a version / distro of Linux that meets these needs -
>
> Have you found any OS that specifically meets those requirements?
OS X does, for the most part. It is not perfect, but it is generally much
better than XP. I have not found a distro of Linux to test, but have not
looked SuSE or Mandrake. And, as I have said, the images of the new Ubuntu
look promising. I am hopeful that one (or more) of those will work.
>
>> though I have been
>> shown screen shots from the new Ubuntu that may very well (and no, I am not
>> suggesting that is the only distro, just happens to be the one I was shown
>> screen shots to). Nor have I tried Mandrake or SuSE, two distros that have
>> been suggested to me as ones that may meet my needs.
>>
>>> He claims to be a computer consultant and lecturer, yet shows not the
>>> slightest interest in learning or researching.
>>
>> Hmmm, have you been reading any of my posts? No interest? Sure - I am far
>> from being an expert in Linux - but keep in mind I am new to it and lacking
>> in hardware to test it.
>
> You have access to computers at work.
Yes, I do. But you pretend - and yes you are merely pretending - to think
that I can just go and install whatever OS I want on them.
In the past when I pretended you were being honest about such confusion you
became frustrated. So let us not pretend any more - you are simply making
dishonest insinuations, and pretending that if I have access to hardware
that I must have access to hardware I can install HD installable distros on.
> You have at leas one at work.
> I infer from you questions about Cruzers that you have at least one.
> frot he above, you have pleanty of hardware to test Linux.
Yes, LiveCD's. As I have been doing.
>
>>
>>> He was even introduced to a local LUG, *after* having claimed, in rather
>>> obnoxious fashion, that there weren't any in his area, and never turned up.
>>
>> LOL... ah, you have been listening to Elizabot... do you know the history
>> there? She is an emotional pre-teen with an obsessive crush on me... and
>> about 99% of her posts are to or about me.
>
> You may now post the age of this 'pre-teen'.
I have no idea, nor do I care.
Again, are we to assume that you are being honest when you pretend to not
know that an "emotional" pre-teen might be of any chronological age? Should
we pretend that you are being honest?
>>
>> In any case, did you bother to ask if I really had gone? Did you bother to
>> ask what happened? Did you bother to ask anything... no, you did not.
>>
>> You are simply making assumptions based on no data - and then accusing me of
>> doing what *you* are doing.
>>
>>> Nor did he comment, nor even apologise. I attempted to discuss with him
>>> exactly what his 'newbies' wanted, and could not ever even determine if
>>> there were one, several, loads. He even claimed to have worked with
>>> thousands (yes, 1000s) of newbies and new all their requirements well, which
>>> clearly cannot be true.
>>
>> I have been very clear with you on this: I am a instructor at a local
>> college where I teach, among others, intro classes. I also do private
>> consulting where most of my clients are older, non-technical users. I have
>> also worked in many other capacities over the years working with relatively
>> new (and also very experienced) users - and yes, the number of people I have
>> had direct contact with and have worked with in this capacity is well over
>> 1000 and likely over 2000. I surely could not give you an exact number.
>
> Interesting claims...
> Are you just throwing your resume around to impress people?
Again, shall we pretend that is an honest answer or shall honestly just
state that you are trolling. I assume you have the capacity to understand
the comments I was in response to, but you are pretending not to.
Again, this is why it is easy to assume you lack knowledge - you often
pretend not to.
>>
>> You, on the other hand, showed no capacity to understand such things and
>> were clearly trolling and flaming instead of showing any interest in
>> understanding. Do you need me to pull up quotes from our conversations to
>> support this claim of mine?
>
> You show no understanding of flaming.
Again, shall we pretend that you are being honest in this statement? Do you
really need a full explanation of what I consider to be flaming?
Unlikely...
>
>>>
>>> I'm not so convinced that our snitty friend is anything other than a
>>> dweller of the deep like flatty. He's a slightly different breed, he
>>> maintains a low-level of anti-social behaviour on a continuous basis,
>>> is slightly provocative almost all of the time.
>>
>> Again, shall we compare our early conversations and see who was provoking
>> whom? When I commented on having problems getting a couple of ISO's to burn
>> - a problem which has since been solved - you responded by saying you did
>> not know why I was even posting here.
>
> Why would you post questions about CD burning to an advocacy group instead
> of a technical group?
You ask this question as though asking questions about Linux - for the
purpose of being able to hopefully advocate for it - should not be posted to
an advocacy group. Are we to pretend that you really are unsure of this?
>
>> When I told you my students use MS
>> Word and that having access to it was important to them you told me that
>> this looks to you like a troll... as though you could not believe that
>> people need MS Word or something very much like it.
>
> ... as in why are you researching Linux for 'non-techincal' people that
>
> need access to Word?
Not sure what you are even getting at here... many people who are not
technical need access to Word (or something that will work much like it).
>
>>
>> From there you went on bragging about what your children can do, as though
>> that was supposed to be a reasoned counter-example to refute what I have
>> seen with many, many (call it "merely" many hundreds if you prefer) of new
>> and non-techy users... many of them older. I pointed this out, and you kept
>> running back to your kids - so I asked you if you thought they were an
>> average example, and you took offense.
>
> That was your inference. He didnnt seem to take offense to me.
Do you need examples of where he kept making comments that showed his
offense... or at least comments of his that were clearly trolling / flaming?
>>
>> You also trolled me when I commented about how there was no easy way for
>> most users to get to experience different distros of Linux - which is
>> completely true, esp. for the population in question.
>
> Except the same easy way most users have for getting experience with
> windows or OS X.
Not at all. Again, shall we pretend that you do not know that there are
stores almost everywhere that you can play, if even for only a few minutes,
with OS X and, especially, Windows.
Again, I assume you know this - but you pretend not to. Or maybe you are
pretending that there are such stores which give similar access to multiple
distros of Linux. Do you need me to point you to the thread where such
topics were discussed?
--
Picture of a tuna soda: http://snipurl.com/bid1
Feel free to ask for the recipe.
_________________________________________
Rick
> "Rick" <no...@trollfeed.com> wrote in post
> pan.2005.03.13....@trollfeed.com on 3/13/05 8:34 AM:
>
>> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 08:03:29 -0700, Snit wrote:
>>
>>> "Mark Kent" <mark...@demon.co.uk> wrote in post
>>> uep01d...@ellandroad.demon.co.uk on 3/13/05 12:17 AM:
>>>
>>>>>> Advocacy groups are entirely inappropriate for such things.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wouldn't agree entirely on that point, I have to say. IMO, that's where
>>>>> such discussions should take place, *if* most people behaved reasonably.
>>>>> But as we know, it's often the reverse.
>>>>
>>>> It depends a lot on how the material is worded in the first place. Snit's
>>>> posts are frequently aggressive, argumentative, reach conclusions on limited
>>>> data at best, all in all, far too opinionated without support facts.
>>>
>>> This should be good - let's see your "support facts" to to your claims
>>> there. Then perhaps we can compare your comments to mine and see who is the
>>> most argumentative and aggressive.
>>
>> It would take too much space to paste the message IDs, much less the
>> quotes.
>
> I did not ask for all examples, just some facts to support the claim.
Your posts are the evidence.
>>
>> (snip)
>>>>
>>>> He's spent a lot of time telling other people they don't know what they're
>>>> talking about, which is very much trolling.
>>>
>>> Only Rick - and only in response to his silly flaming of me.
>>
>> I've called you on your passive-aggressive BS.
>>
>> ... and I've pointed you to information, which you have usually refused.
Thanks for the tacit agreement.
>>>> He seems unaware of his own limitations,
>>
>> My limitations? Mine? Compared to you I have none... but that is only
>> compared to you using Linux.
>
> Do you realize you are in response to Kent's claims about me? Why are you
> acting like they are about you?
Might I have made a mistake? Might I have read some thing incorrectly?
>
> I hope you simply admit to your error... but based on your history it is not
> likely.
>>
>>> yet is able to make amazing
>>>> broad-brush, blanket claims about the capabilities and needs of other
>>>> people.
>>>
>>> I am able to talk about the needs of people I have been working with for
>>> many, many years. Yes. I can tell you very specifically reasons why I have
>>> come to the conclusions I have. Keep in mind what I am looking for
>>>
>>> * consistent and easy to use dialogs
>>> * consistent and easy to use window widgets
>>> * consistent methods to do common tasks (such as make new folders)
>>> * windowing that has an attractive and reasonably high contrast look
>>> (I pointed to the defaults on a LiveCD that did not meet this)
>>> * a relatively simple interface with little clutter
>>>
>>> None of this is that controversial - or should be. As it stands I have not
>>> seen a version / distro of Linux that meets these needs -
>>
>> Have you found any OS that specifically meets those requirements?
>
> OS X does, for the most part.
For the most part is not yes.
> It is not perfect, but it is generally much
> better than XP. I have not found a distro of Linux to test, but have not
What the hell have you been doing with the LiveCDs?
> looked SuSE or Mandrake. And, as I have said, the images of the new
> Ubuntu look promising. I am hopeful that one (or more) of those will
> work.
First you say ..."I have not found a distro of Linux to test", then you
say ..."the images of the new Ubuntu look promising". Which is it?
>>
>>> though I have been
>>> shown screen shots from the new Ubuntu that may very well (and no, I
>>> am not suggesting that is the only distro, just happens to be the one
>>> I was shown screen shots to). Nor have I tried Mandrake or SuSE, two
>>> distros that have been suggested to me as ones that may meet my needs.
>>>
>>>> He claims to be a computer consultant and lecturer, yet shows not the
>>>> slightest interest in learning or researching.
>>>
>>> Hmmm, have you been reading any of my posts? No interest? Sure - I
>>> am far from being an expert in Linux - but keep in mind I am new to it
>>> and lacking in hardware to test it.
>>
>> You have access to computers at work.
>
> Yes, I do. But you pretend - and yes you are merely pretending - to
> think that I can just go and install whatever OS I want on them.
That is your (again) incorrect inference. Hint: LiveCD.
>
> In the past when I pretended you were being honest about such confusion
> you became frustrated. So let us not pretend any more - you are simply
> making dishonest insinuations, and pretending that if I have access to
> hardware that I must have access to hardware I can install HD
> installable distros on.
Ok.. now you're lying.
Now which is it... you are using LiveCDs or not?
BTW, why don;'t you understand you can test Linux without doing hard drive
installs.... ?
Hint.... that's what LiveCDs are for.
>
>> You have at leas one at work.
>> I infer from you questions about Cruzers that you have at least one.
>> frot he above, you have pleanty of hardware to test Linux.
>
> Yes, LiveCD's. As I have been doing.
Which is it? You are testining Linux or you are not.
>>>> He was even introduced to a local LUG, *after* having claimed, in
>>>> rather obnoxious fashion, that there weren't any in his area, and
>>>> never turned up.
>>>
>>> LOL... ah, you have been listening to Elizabot... do you know the
>>> history there? She is an emotional pre-teen with an obsessive crush on
>>> me... and about 99% of her posts are to or about me.
>>
>> You may now post the age of this 'pre-teen'.
>
> I have no idea, nor do I care.
If you don't know the age, how do you know "...She is an emotional
pre-teen"?
>
> Again, are we to assume that you are being honest when you pretend to
> not know that an "emotional" pre-teen might be of any chronological age?
> Should we pretend that you are being honest?
You may now explain how a 40 year old can be "an emotional pre-teen". You
may also explain how anyone over 12 can be "an emotional pre-teen".
I see, you can state your claimed qualifications and it is OK, but if I do
its 'throwing my resume around to impress you'. Nice bigotry.
>>>
>>> You, on the other hand, showed no capacity to understand such things
>>> and were clearly trolling and flaming instead of showing any interest
>>> in understanding. Do you need me to pull up quotes from our
>>> conversations to support this claim of mine?
>>
>> You show no understanding of flaming.
>
> Again, shall we pretend that you are being honest in this statement?
There goes your passive-agressive BS again.
> Do
> you really need a full explanation of what I consider to be flaming?
> Unlikely...
Quite true. But then what you consider flaming, the community might not.
>>
>>
>>>> I'm not so convinced that our snitty friend is anything other than a
>>>> dweller of the deep like flatty. He's a slightly different breed, he
>>>> maintains a low-level of anti-social behaviour on a continuous basis,
>>>> is slightly provocative almost all of the time.
>>>
>>> Again, shall we compare our early conversations and see who was
>>> provoking whom? When I commented on having problems getting a couple
>>> of ISO's to burn - a problem which has since been solved - you
>>> responded by saying you did not know why I was even posting here.
>>
>> Why would you post questions about CD burning to an advocacy group
>> instead of a technical group?
>
> You ask this question as though asking questions about Linux - for the
> purpose of being able to hopefully advocate for it - should not be
> posted to an advocacy group. Are we to pretend that you really are
> unsure of this?
Since you didn't answer the question, I will ask it again...
Why did you post questions about CD burning to an advocacy group
instead of a technical group?
>>
>>> When I told you my students use MS
>>> Word and that having access to it was important to them you told me
>>> that this looks to you like a troll... as though you could not believe
>>> that people need MS Word or something very much like it.
>>
>> ... as in why are you researching Linux for 'non-techincal' people that
>> need access to Word?
>
> Not sure what you are even getting at here... many people who are not
> technical need access to Word (or something that will work much like
> it).
If they are "non-technical", and they need access to Word, why are you
researching Linux for them? How do you think they will access Word?
>>
>>
>>> From there you went on bragging about what your children can do, as
>>> though that was supposed to be a reasoned counter-example to refute
>>> what I have seen with many, many (call it "merely" many hundreds if
>>> you prefer) of new and non-techy users... many of them older. I
>>> pointed this out, and you kept running back to your kids - so I asked
>>> you if you thought they were an average example, and you took offense.
>>
>> That was your inference. He didnnt seem to take offense to me.
>
> Do you need examples of where he kept making comments that showed his
> offense... or at least comments of his that were clearly trolling /
> flaming?
That was your inference. He didn't seem to take offense to me.
>>>
>>> You also trolled me when I commented about how there was no easy way
>>> for most users to get to experience different distros of Linux - which
>>> is completely true, esp. for the population in question.
>>
>> Except the same easy way most users have for getting experience with
>> windows or OS X.
>
> Not at all.
Uh, yes.
>Again, shall we pretend that you do not know that there are
> stores almost everywhere that you can play, if even for only a few
> minutes, with OS X and, especially, Windows.
Pretend anything you like. When you return to the real world, I will read.
>
> Again, I assume you know this - but you pretend not to.
Assume anything you want, but be prepared to remain wrong.
> Or maybe you
> are pretending that there are such stores which give similar access to
> multiple distros of Linux. Do you need me to point you to the thread
> where such topics were discussed?
You do a lot of pretending, don't you?
>>
(snip)
--
Rick
Snit
I would prefer if we both just pretended you had not opted to lower yourself
to this level.
Is that a deal?
--
Picture of a tuna milkshake: http://snipurl.com/bh6q
Feel free to ask for the recipe.
"Rick" <no...@trollfeed.com> wrote in post
pan.2005.03.13....@trollfeed.com on 3/13/05 10:46 AM:
_________________________________________
Rick
"Rick" <no...@trollfeed.com> wrote in post
pan.2005.03.13....@trollfeed.com on 3/13/05 10:46 AM:
> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 09:23:37 -0700, Snit wrote:
>
>> "Rick" <no...@trollfeed.com> wrote in post
>> pan.2005.03.13....@trollfeed.com on 3/13/05 8:34 AM:
>>
>>> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 08:03:29 -0700, Snit wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Mark Kent" <mark...@demon.co.uk> wrote in post
>>>> uep01d...@ellandroad.demon.co.uk on 3/13/05 12:17 AM:
>>>>
>>>>>>> Advocacy groups are entirely inappropriate for such things.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wouldn't agree entirely on that point, I have to say. IMO, that's where
>>>>>> such discussions should take place, *if* most people behaved reasonably.
>>>>>> But as we know, it's often the reverse.
>>>>>
>>>>> It depends a lot on how the material is worded in the first place. Snit's
>>>>> posts are frequently aggressive, argumentative, reach conclusions on
>>>>> limited
>>>>> data at best, all in all, far too opinionated without support facts.
>>>>
>>>> This should be good - let's see your "support facts" to to your claims
>>>> there. Then perhaps we can compare your comments to mine and see who is
>>>> the
>>>> most argumentative and aggressive.
>>>
>>> It would take too much space to paste the message IDs, much less the
>>> quotes.
>>
>> I did not ask for all examples, just some facts to support the claim.
>
> Your posts are the evidence.
Thanks for the tacit admission.
>
>>>
>>> (snip)
>>>>>
>>>>> He's spent a lot of time telling other people they don't know what they're
>>>>> talking about, which is very much trolling.
>>>>
>>>> Only Rick - and only in response to his silly flaming of me.
>>>
>>> I've called you on your passive-aggressive BS.
>>>
>>> ... and I've pointed you to information, which you have usually refused.
>
> Thanks for the tacit agreement.
>
>
>>>>> He seems unaware of his own limitations,
>>>
>>> My limitations? Mine? Compared to you I have none... but that is only
>>> compared to you using Linux.
>>
>> Do you realize you are in response to Kent's claims about me? Why are you
>> acting like they are about you?
>
> Might I have made a mistake? Might I have read some thing incorrectly?
I guess I did not.... ?
>
>>
>> I hope you simply admit to your error... but based on your history it is not
>> likely.
>>>
>>>> yet is able to make amazing
>>>>> broad-brush, blanket claims about the capabilities and needs of other
>>>>> people.
>>>>
>>>> I am able to talk about the needs of people I have been working with for
>>>> many, many years. Yes. I can tell you very specifically reasons why I
>>>> have
>>>> come to the conclusions I have. Keep in mind what I am looking for
>>>>
>>>> * consistent and easy to use dialogs
>>>> * consistent and easy to use window widgets
>>>> * consistent methods to do common tasks (such as make new folders)
>>>> * windowing that has an attractive and reasonably high contrast look
>>>> (I pointed to the defaults on a LiveCD that did not meet this)
>>>> * a relatively simple interface with little clutter
>>>>
>>>> None of this is that controversial - or should be. As it stands I have not
>>>> seen a version / distro of Linux that meets these needs -
>>>
>>> Have you found any OS that specifically meets those requirements?
>>
>> OS X does, for the most part.
>
> For the most part is not yes.
No answer?
>
>> It is not perfect, but it is generally much
>> better than XP. I have not found a distro of Linux to test, but have not
>
> What the hell have you been doing with the LiveCDs?
>
>> looked SuSE or Mandrake. And, as I have said, the images of the new
>> Ubuntu look promising. I am hopeful that one (or more) of those will
>> work.
>
> First you say ..."I have not found a distro of Linux to test", then you
> say ..."the images of the new Ubuntu look promising". Which is it?
Well, which is it?
> Which is it? You are testing Linux or you are not.
Well ?
>
>
>>>>> He was even introduced to a local LUG, *after* having claimed, in
>>>>> rather obnoxious fashion, that there weren't any in his area, and
>>>>> never turned up.
>>>>
>>>> LOL... ah, you have been listening to Elizabot... do you know the
>>>> history there? She is an emotional pre-teen with an obsessive crush on
>>>> me... and about 99% of her posts are to or about me.
>>>
>>> You may now post the age of this 'pre-teen'.
>>
>> I have no idea, nor do I care.
>
> If you don't know the age, how do you know "...She is an emotional
> pre-teen"?
No answer?
>
>>
>> Again, are we to assume that you are being honest when you pretend to
>> not know that an "emotional" pre-teen might be of any chronological age?
>> Should we pretend that you are being honest?
>
> You may now explain how a 40 year old can be "an emotional pre-teen". You
> may also explain how anyone over 12 can be "an emotional pre-teen".
You don't know?
On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 11:20:58 -0700, Snit wrote:
> Did you really want a response to your trolling here, Rick?
Do you still beat your wife?
Hint... there was no trolling.
>
> I would prefer if we both just pretended you had not opted to lower yourself
> to this level.
You can pretend anything you want. Since you are using the word 'opted',
you must be claiming to be able to read my mind again.
>
> Is that a deal?
You can pretend anything you want.
--
Rick
Elizabot v2.0.2
> begin doom.scr
> Elizabot v2.0.2 <Eliz...@NsOpSyPmAaMc.com> espoused:
>
>>Snit wrote:
>>
>><snip>
>>
>>>Fair enough - and that is something I should have anticipated... while I can
>>>not control the actions of those that troll in CSMA, I can surely predict
>>>it... and I knew they would likely troll me... and since I cross posted they
>>>would use that as an excuse to disrupt both groups instead of just one.
>>
>>Don't play "Mr. Innocent", Snit. You have *bragged* about hitting your
>>goal of posts talking about you.
>>
>>In April of 2004 you wrote:
>>
>>In article <BCAC6CB3.4A3F6%sn...@nospam-cableone.net>,
>> 尬≡ <s...@nospam-cableone.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>I have hit my goal of posts talking about me... so there is no need for
>> anything else.
>>
>>
>>Stats from the last week (according to Google):
>> Posts from me: 59
>> Posts with the word "snit" in them: 661
>> Total posts: 2420
>>
>>
>
>
> <snip>
>
> Which is why trolls, including Snit, are best killfiled.
I've done it in the past. I have reasons not to now, which I do not wish
to get into.
It looks like Snit's circus act has moved to cola. He's not flaming as
much in csma.
Here's what Steve Mackay had to say about the Snit Circus (the term was
coined May 2004):
Just killfile Snit, the dishonest piece of elephant dung, and all would
go away. Sure, I got caught up in the "Snit Circus", but then the cotton
candy began to sour, and CSMA begun to smell like elephant dung.
Here's what Edwin had to say about it:
"The stench of elephant dung is beginning to waft through the air... The
Fire Eater is running about the center ring with his hair ablaze as one
of drunken clowns tries to catch up and dose him... the Snit Circus is
coming up to Full Speed..."
Many posters snip Snit's messages with a notation like
"<elephant dung snipped>"
Now you know why.
--
By responding to Elizabot v2.0.2 you implicitly agree to the TOS at:
http://elizabot.spymac.net/
Steve Carroll
Snit <SN...@CABLE0NE.NET.INVALID> wrote:
> "Mark Kent" <mark...@demon.co.uk> wrote in post
> 8mtu0d...@ellandroad.demon.co.uk on 3/12/05 7:17 AM:
> > Advocacy groups are entirely inappropriate for such things.
> >
> >>
> >> People often aren't. And many posters in COLA dump all crossposted
> >> messages, becasue of the activities of idiots from alt.os.windows-xp and
> >> the like.
> >>
> >
> > I'm always deeply suspicious of anyone cross-posting. There are almost
> > never reasons to do so, and there is certainly no reason whatsoever to
> > engage in trolling across multiple groups, as SNIT has done numerous
> > times. It's just bad behaviour.
>
> What criteria, other than cross posting (which we have both done), do you
> use to come to the conclusion that I have been trolling.
Hmmm, I wonder if Mark has *created* threads and posted them in csma and
cola to the same degree you have... somehow, in all the time he's been
in cola, I doubt it. I'd say you're doing pretty good work in a week's
time.
> It seems that most people have no objective criteria at all - they simply
> use that term to mean the person has done something they do not like. I
> would be interested to know if you are above that.
chrisv
>On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 13:00:37 -0700, Shit wrote:
>>
>> is Rick considered a "regular Linux advocate"... he has done little else
>> other than troll me since I started posting here.
>
>Some might say he is. He can be a good advocate at times. Perhaps he
>simply dislikes your manner.
PRick is a troll-feeder, first and foremost. Notice his enthusiastic
feeding of the "Shit" troll.