iOS exclusive app

[badgolferman]

Over the years I have strongly considered switching to Android devices.
Sometimes out of curiosity, sometimes out of frustration and anger with the
direction Apple has taken with their devices or operating system. Yet there
is at least one app on iOS which keeps me from taking that plunge —
NewsTap. There is no viable Usenet NNTP app on the Google Play store which
is anywhere near NewsTap in functionality and ease of use. I use an old
Samsung Galaxy S3 to test what I can find and my son uses Android so
sometimes I ask him to try one out. But in any case all research I’ve done
shows there isn’t anything decent available for Android. I’ve checked with
the developer and he says no to Android.

My understanding is the iOS version of Gmail is better and has some
different functionality but I guess I could get used to that.

Is there one app you must have that only is available on iOS?

[Arlen Holder]

On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 23:31:23 +0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote:

> Over the years I have strongly considered switching to Android devices.

See also this exact duplicate thread:
o What functionality you do on iOS you wish you could do on Android?
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/Y5Hy7T8cNtw>

Basic logic for adults...

1. Apple has no monopoly on hardware functionality; neither does Google,
Samsung, Motorola, LG, whatever; hence, the _potential_ hardware
functionality is the same between the two platforms.

2. Apple has no monopoly on software functionality either; and neither
does Google, Samsung, Motorola, LG, or any of thousands of software
developers who make the myriad apps out there.

So what's different?
o HINT: Apple _limits_ the hardware & software functionality.

HARDWARE:
For example, you won't find sdcard hardware functionality on iPhones.
o Nor will you find basic headphone jack functionality on most iPhones

SOFTWARE:
Try automatic call recording on iOS, or Wi-Fi analyzers, or any of a host
of network debugging apps, or shortcuts to deep down settings, etc.

You can't even organize your own iPhone homescreen like you'd want it to.
o On Android, you can (because nobody artificially limits it on you).

The adult summary is that the main difference between Android & iOS is that
Apple limits both the hardware & software functionality; Android doesn't.

> Sometimes out of curiosity, sometimes out of frustration and anger with the
> direction Apple has taken with their devices or operating system. Yet there

> is at least one app on iOS which keeps me from taking that plunge ĄX

> NewsTap. There is no viable Usenet NNTP app on the Google Play store which
> is anywhere near NewsTap in functionality and ease of use. I use an old
> Samsung Galaxy S3 to test what I can find and my son uses Android so

> sometimes I ask him to try one out. But in any case all research IĄŚve done
> shows there isnĄŚt anything decent available for Android. IĄŚve checked with

> the developer and he says no to Android.

Android Usenet app functionality sucks.
o So does iOS Usenet app functionality unless you pay (last I tested it).

> My understanding is the iOS version of Gmail is better and has some
> different functionality but I guess I could get used to that.

The last time you claimed that you had iOS functionality that you didn't
have on Android, you proved to be about as wrong as a human can be.

I don't use the Gmail App, so you're lucky this time, but everything you
said last time was so wrong I had to wonder about your capabilities; so
let's hope you actually have a fact or two backing up your hunches above.

Note: I'm not saying that the GMail App is better or worse on either
platform; I'm just saying that the last time you played that game, you were
so dead wrong I had to wonder if you were an apologist.

o What functionality you do on iOS you wish you could do on Android?
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/Y5Hy7T8cNtw>

> Is there one app you must have that only is available on iOS?

See this duplicate thread asking the exact same question:
o What functionality you do on iOS you wish you could do on Android?
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/Y5Hy7T8cNtw>

Adult question for you:
Q: Is there some reason you feel that iOS has changed since then?

[Arlen Holder]

On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 23:45:39 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> HARDWARE:
> For example, you won't find sdcard hardware functionality on iPhones.
> o Nor will you find basic headphone jack functionality on most iPhones

The RAM on most iPhones is laughably paltry (and yes, that's what the media
calls it too).

The RAM on most iPhones, dollar for dollar, is a joke compared to Android.
o So is the total storage (dollar for dollar) a joke on iPhones.

My $100 Android phone has more CPU and RAM than almost every iPhone alive.
o And get this, it isn't throttled in half after about a year.

And that's just a tiny bit of the hardware...
o The cameras on iPhones, again, dollar for dollar, are a joke too.

As I said, Apple has no monopoly on hardware.
o All Apple can do with hardware is _limit_ its availability.
(e.g., remove sdcard, remove headphone jack, remove fast chargers, etc.)

[*Hemidactylus*]

I would say categorically “fuck Android!” and I applaud NewsTap. Books is
important to me though many alternatives exist. Widgets are underwhelming
though I use some like Clock, Firefox (my blogs), and Music (yawn). Music
itself is good though so is Tidal (more so). Podcasts works well for me
though there are alternatives.

I love how easy it is to take webpage content I find important and paste it
into Pages and convert that into epub for offline access in Books. That’s
like the best feature ever!

Maps hasn’t put me in the outback yet, though I usually use my Garmin.

Most of the features such as Hedy Lamarring into my car audio system are
available elsewhere, but I just can’t Android. Apple seems much stricter on
Store policies. Not that they are perfect. Plus the standardization and
lack of platform abandonment. My first smartphone was a Motorola that got
kicked to the curb by the Android ecosystem quite abruptly. I never looked
back, plus Apple as evil as it is seems far more trustworthy than “do no
evil” Google.

[*Hemidactylus*]

>> is at least one app on iOS which keeps me from taking that plunge ¡X

>> NewsTap. There is no viable Usenet NNTP app on the Google Play store which
>> is anywhere near NewsTap in functionality and ease of use. I use an old
>> Samsung Galaxy S3 to test what I can find and my son uses Android so

>> sometimes I ask him to try one out. But in any case all research I¡¦ve done

>> shows there isn¡¦t anything decent available for Android. I¡¦ve checked with

>> the developer and he says no to Android.
>
> Android Usenet app functionality sucks.
> o So does iOS Usenet app functionality unless you pay (last I tested it).
>
>> My understanding is the iOS version of Gmail is better and has some
>> different functionality but I guess I could get used to that.
>
> The last time you claimed that you had iOS functionality that you didn't
> have on Android, you proved to be about as wrong as a human can be.
>
> I don't use the Gmail App, so you're lucky this time, but everything you
> said last time was so wrong I had to wonder about your capabilities; so
> let's hope you actually have a fact or two backing up your hunches above.
>
> Note: I'm not saying that the GMail App is better or worse on either
> platform; I'm just saying that the last time you played that game, you were
> so dead wrong I had to wonder if you were an apologist.
>
> o What functionality you do on iOS you wish you could do on Android?
> <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/Y5Hy7T8cNtw>
>
>> Is there one app you must have that only is available on iOS?
>
> See this duplicate thread asking the exact same question:
> o What functionality you do on iOS you wish you could do on Android?
> <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/Y5Hy7T8cNtw>
>
> Adult question for you:
> Q: Is there some reason you feel that iOS has changed since then?
>

How many times do you masturbate in public per day? Your activity seems
perverse and profuse.

[Arlen Holder]

On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 22:45:29 -0600, *Hemidactylus* wrote:

> How many times do you masturbate in public per day?
> Your activity seems perverse and profuse.

Hi Hemidactylus,

Why must you Type III apologists be so easily proven to be infantile?

[Arlen Holder]

On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 22:28:07 -0600, *Hemidactylus* wrote:

> I would say categorically 'fuck Android!'

Why must all you Type III apologists be so easily proven to be infantile?
o You're _entire_ belief system is based on exactly zero (0) actual facts.

The problem here is that badgolferman won't get any decent answers
1. Most of you Apple apologists have no idea of the power of Android
2. None of you seem to own an actual brain worthy of a real adult
3. Besides, we covered this exact topic (with 85 posts or so).

The simple fact is Apple _limits_ what iOS devices can do.
o Android does not.

That alone, means there's nothing on iOS that isn't on a 5-year old Android
o And it also means Android will _always_ have more functionality than iOS

It's pure rational reasonable sensible logic.
--
Apple takes functionality away and then tries to sell it back to you.

[*Hemidactylus*]

Android sucks ass. Pure rational reasonable sensible logic.

Arlen is a twit. Proven.

[Arlen Holder]

On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 23:51:33 -0600, *Hemidactylus* wrote:

> Android sucks ass. Pure rational reasonable sensible logic.
> Arlen is a twit. Proven.

Hi Hemidactylus,

Actually not only do I feel sorry for you, but I understand you.

You Type III apologists are like a stunted fifth grader who just found out
that MARKETING hasn't been telling him the truth about Santa Claus.

You desperately want to _believe_ that Santa flies through the air...
o And that Santa delivers presents to your living room...

Just like the MARKETING people fed you to believe.

SO when someone tells you the truth ("Hint: Santa isn't real"), you react:
"Arlen is a twit. Proven"

Notice your vitriol?
o You Type III apologists are exactly like that stunted fifth grade bully.

You have no defense whatsoever to facts (such as "Santa is make believe").
o So you respond by attacking the mere bearer of those facts you hate.

Why I feel sorry for people like you Hemidactylus is that you actually hate
Apple because Apple is never what Apple MARKETING said it would be.

That's why you hate me - because you actually hate Apple.
o You hate me because I am the messenger of truth about Apple products.

And you have absolutely no adult defense to facts.
o As you just proved in spades in this thread.
--
Apologists actually hate that Apple is never what MARKETING said it was.

[Arlen Holder]

FACTS:

Assuming badgolferman wanted facts, notice that Apple valiantly 'tried' to
play catchup to five year old Android homescreen functionality with iOS 14.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/y6p53m46/homescreen01.jpg>

For example, in iOS 14, Apple now allows limited "defaults", which is, as
we know, functionality that even a 5 year old Android device has long had,
e.g., I can set the audio defaults to any app I feel like setting them to:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/fRNg5hn0/audio01.jpg>

In iOS 14 Apple added modern "widgets", which, again, any five year old
Android device has long had...
o <https://i.postimg.cc/vTmRGghz/settings01.jpg>

and, get this, in iOS 14 Apple added the modern functionality of something
as simple as an "app drawer app" where you have full control of every app:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/JzrfLbpb/pskill01.jpg>

On any five year old Android, you can set it up without an account and it
works just fine, which, is impossible on an unjailbroken iOS device.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/NjkLvYdy/aurora01.jpg>

Worse, on iOS, you can run the kind of app searches on the default play
store that you can run on Android, e.g., free, ad-free, gsf-free, and even
_google_ free, which I run all the time, as Google is anathema to me:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/W3h4ZZTr/aurora02.jpg>

Any five year old Android device can easily spoof itself, so as to access
apps that are limited to other countries, devices, OS versions, etc.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/ZR25xq5Q/aurora03.jpg>

And don't even get me started on the lack of Wi-Fi functionality on iOS:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/4xgmTTgm/wifi01.jpg>

Almost everything you do daily with Wi-Fi on Android is impossible on iOS:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/3NYSPQSd/network01.jpg>

Hell, even screenshot'ing functionality of iOS is primitive by comparison:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/jq1KVPBk/screenshot01.jpg>

As with all the rest... Apple is finally playing catchup to five year old
Android devices... which is a good thing mind you... but it proves my point
that iOS is mired in the Stone Age of basic rudimentary app functionality.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/cH31wPy2/sdcard03.jpg>

But iPhones have a long way to go to even approach modern functionality.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/j2VCtRPX/sdcard02.jpg>

For example, on Android, I can load any app launcher I want, most (all?) of
which allow me to, for example, completely change the name of _any_ icon
whatsoever (and change the icon too), which you just can't do with iOS.

This is useful for when a lot of apps have the same name (e.g., the task
managers and PDF viewers for example, seem to duplicate the names exactly).

While the iOS homescreen was revolutionary a decade ago, it hasn't
appreciably changed since, so it's stuck in the Stone Age of functionality.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/dt1bVLfr/share05.jpg>

For another example, on any five year old Android device, I can set the
homescreen icon grid to anything I like, i.e., any number of rows and
columns (within reason), which you just can't do on iOS.

I can set to see the dock - or not see the dock - amazingly, yet another
thing you just can't do with iOS (last I tried, even a completely _empty_
dock still shows on the iOS homescreen!).

If there's a setting deep within any particular app, or within the Android
settings, I can easily set a shortcut to that setting, any time I want.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/vTkv7Grh/settings03.jpg>
As far as I can tell, you can't even do something that trivial on iOS.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/FzmF5wYr/printing07.jpg>

As you're well aware, Apple sold out your privacy to Google for money
o Google Pays Apple $8-12 Billion Per Year to be Default iOS Search Engine
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/yU6d7f670Ho>

Yet, on any five year old Android, I can see which programs have trackers,
& better yet, I can turn any of those programs off, at will, at any time.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/9FmRKqnz/stt01.jpg>

I can load apps even Google hates, such as YouTube clones on steroids:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/XYN9Khm3/newpipe04.jpg>
which allow anonymous search, view, play, and even ripping, all without
ever seeing a single advertisement, and always, always, all for free:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/3xLmt1QG/newpipe05.jpg>

The list of what Android does that is impossible on iOS is enormous.
o And yet, I can't find a single functionality on iOS not on Android.

Can you?
--
Note: We're talking "functdionality"; not brand names or trademarks.

[Alan Browne]

On 2020-11-25 18:31, badgolferman wrote:

> My understanding is the iOS version of Gmail is better and has some
> different functionality but I guess I could get used to that.

I used it for a while and then went back to the Apple Mail app solely.
Not because it's better, but because it's the default and all my mail
accounts can be gathered there.

>
> Is there one app you must have that only is available on iOS?

Nothing comes to mind.

A key advantage of iOS is not iOS but Apple's integration across devices
with data sharing via iCloud. In particular Messages, Notes, Reminders,
Contacts, Calendars and others to lesser extent. This is all quite
seamless. So my Macs (2) and iDevices (2) are all on the same page all
of the time.

I don't think there is anything in the Android universe as well
integrated and secure as that scheme at Apple. Mainly because the vast
majority of Android users are Windows users and while there may be some
good syncing of apps there, it can't, by absence of design, be as
seamless as the Apple system.

iCloud storage ("Drive") is better every year, though I'd like it to
provide more direct sharable linking than at present akin to Dropbox.
iCloud files sometimes are delayed by a few seconds on opening, esp.
very large docs if they were recently updated on another device.
Depending on need, I have a split across Dropbox and iCloud. I also
have a OneDrive account, but at present it contains no data.

That said, I like the more open device approach of Android where sensors
like the GPS are concerned. Much deeper accessibility to all channel
data - not something a lot of people need but does open some advanced
positioning and dynamics capability. Likewise WiFi is more open to use.

--
"...there are many humorous things in this world; among them the white
man's notion that he is less savage than the other savages."
-Samuel Clemens

[badgolferman]

>> is at least one app on iOS which keeps me from taking that plunge ¡X

>> NewsTap. There is no viable Usenet NNTP app on the Google Play store which
>> is anywhere near NewsTap in functionality and ease of use. I use an old
>> Samsung Galaxy S3 to test what I can find and my son uses Android so

>> sometimes I ask him to try one out. But in any case all research I¡¦ve done

>> shows there isn¡¦t anything decent available for Android. I¡¦ve checked with

>> the developer and he says no to Android.
>
> Android Usenet app functionality sucks.
> o So does iOS Usenet app functionality unless you pay (last I tested it).
>
>> My understanding is the iOS version of Gmail is better and has some
>> different functionality but I guess I could get used to that.
>
> The last time you claimed that you had iOS functionality that you didn't
> have on Android, you proved to be about as wrong as a human can be.
>
> I don't use the Gmail App, so you're lucky this time, but everything you
> said last time was so wrong I had to wonder about your capabilities; so
> let's hope you actually have a fact or two backing up your hunches above.
>
> Note: I'm not saying that the GMail App is better or worse on either
> platform; I'm just saying that the last time you played that game, you were
> so dead wrong I had to wonder if you were an apologist.
>
> o What functionality you do on iOS you wish you could do on Android?
> <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/Y5Hy7T8cNtw>
>
>> Is there one app you must have that only is available on iOS?
>
> See this duplicate thread asking the exact same question:
> o What functionality you do on iOS you wish you could do on Android?
> <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/Y5Hy7T8cNtw>
>
> Adult question for you:
> Q: Is there some reason you feel that iOS has changed since then?
>

Sorry for not giving you the credit you crave, but most of us don’t have a
memory like a steel trap where nothing ever escapes. If this topic has come
up before I’ve forgotten about it. I also have no interest in scanning
through reams of Google Groups discussions which is so hard to read anyway,
especially on a phone. Just call me lazy.

My question had nothing to do with the hardware or operating system
capabilities of Apple or Android devices, it was more along the lines of
what app can’t you do without. For me that’s NewsTap or the free version
which is NewsTapLite. There is only one app on Google Play store which is
remotely capable and it’s Pyongyang or something like that. Even then it
places a footer in the message which I don’t want. It’s also quite clunky
and hard to use.

I know it’s been slow in this newsgroup lately but try not to take my
original message as a personal affront. Happy Thanksgiving to you and
everyone else.

[Alan Browne]

On 2020-11-26 08:48, badgolferman wrote:

> Sorry for not giving you the credit you crave

By replying you gave it the oxygen it craves.

[badgolferman]

Our critics are often our best teachers. Every group needs someone who
thinks differently.

[Alan Browne]

Great minds think differently. It is nothing close to a great mind.
Its sole goal is disruption and endless debate and quibbling while
disrupting the NG's it infects.

[Arlen Holder]

On Thu, 26 Nov 2020 08:45:05 -0500, Alan Browne wrote:

>> Is there one app you must have that only is available on iOS?
>
> Nothing comes to mind.

Actually, where Apple excels, by far, is in MARKETING prowess.
o Apple is brilliant at feeding their customer base what they want to hear.

> A key advantage of iOS is not iOS but Apple's integration across devices
> with data sharing via iCloud. In particular Messages, Notes, Reminders,
> Contacts, Calendars and others to lesser extent. This is all quite
> seamless. So my Macs (2) and iDevices (2) are all on the same page all
> of the time.

This is true that Apple tries to integrate its apps, which it can do
because it is the developer of most of those apps (if not all).

Nonetheless, integrated apps is not an "iOS-exclusive" functionality.

> I don't think there is anything in the Android universe as well
> integrated and secure as that scheme at Apple. Mainly because the vast
> majority of Android users are Windows users and while there may be some
> good syncing of apps there, it can't, by absence of design, be as
> seamless as the Apple system.

Google does the same seamless app integration that you speak of (phone,
contacts, messages, calendar, photos, cloud, etc.), as far as I know.

Microsoft is also trying to get into the game of the mobile device playing
nicely with the desktop, especially with their new phone app & cloud plans.

Hence, the integration isn't an "iOS-exclusive" functionality, even as it's
clear Apple undoubtably does a great job with their app integrations.

> iCloud storage ("Drive") is better every year, though I'd like it to
> provide more direct sharable linking than at present akin to Dropbox.
> iCloud files sometimes are delayed by a few seconds on opening, esp.
> very large docs if they were recently updated on another device.
> Depending on need, I have a split across Dropbox and iCloud. I also
> have a OneDrive account, but at present it contains no data.

The free iCloud is paltry compared to Google; and M$ has it too.
o Hence, free cloud storage is not an "iOS-exclusive" functionality.

> That said, I like the more open device approach of Android where sensors
> like the GPS are concerned. Much deeper accessibility to all channel
> data - not something a lot of people need but does open some advanced
> positioning and dynamics capability.

I don't disagree Android gives fantastic access to "sensor data"
o I can't count the information available to the user via those utilities
<https://i.postimg.cc/CxTxzsfC/sys01.jpg>

I even keep a homescreen folder called "sensors" just to check on stuff
o There must be hundreds of different "sensor bits" we can see if we want
<https://i.postimg.cc/MXkqfzXZ/sensor01.jpg>

Also IPA/APK app management is phenomenal on Android compared to iOS:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/vTQ13DcK/apk01.jpg>

As is file management:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/rmvDBN8Q/files01.jpg>

> Likewise WiFi is more open to use.

This is correct, where Android Wi-Fi & cellular debugging is fantastic:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/4xgmTTgm/wifi01.jpg>

Note the logic that Apple tries to make gullible people ignore
o Apple has no monopoly on either hardware nor software prowess

Apple simply has _control_ of their ecosystem.
o Apple limits what you can do; Android doesn't.
--
You can hate me for simply telling the TRUTH (and you probably do).

[Arlen Holder]

On Thu, 26 Nov 2020 18:17:21 +0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote:

> Our critics are often our best teachers.
> Every group needs someone who thinks differently.

Every post by Alan Browne and Hemidactylus in this thread shows how
petrified these apologists are by something as trivial as mere facts.

Why?
o I don't know why.

I suspect, like a fifth grade stunted bully told for the first time that
Santa Claus is a figment of their imagination built purely by MARKETING...

These apologists hate me simply because I speak only facts about Apple.

Given their imaginary belief systems fed to them by MARKETING alone...
o They have absolutely no defense to the facts

Like flat earthers, the only way these apologists can maintain their wholly
imaginary belief systems about Apple products is to filter out all facts.

They proved me correct, in fact, in this very thread.

[Arlen Holder]

On Thu, 26 Nov 2020 13:56:45 -0500, Alan Browne wrote:

>> Our critics are often our best teachers. Every group needs someone who
>> thinks differently.
>
> Great minds think differently. It is nothing close to a great mind.
> Its sole goal is disruption and endless debate and quibbling while
> disrupting the NG's it infects.

What's interesting is how _petrified_ Alan Browne is of mere facts.
o Imaginary belief systems are instantly DESTROYED by mere facts.

That's why Alan Brown & Hemidactylus acted so childishly in this thread.
o They're literally afraid of facts

Why?
o I don't know why.

All I know is they both acted childishly in this thread...
o And they both exhibit an intense fear of something as simple as a fact.

Their _only_ defense to facts they don't like...
o Is to act like a child (which is exactly what they both did).

Apologists have no _adult_ response to facts.

[Arlen Holder]

On Thu, 26 Nov 2020 10:11:57 -0500, Alan Browne wrote:

> By replying you gave it the oxygen it craves.

Why Alan Browne always proves to act like a child, is what amazes me.
o He proves me 100% correct about him with _every_ infantile post he makes.

[Arlen Holder]

On Thu, 26 Nov 2020 13:48:30 +0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote:

> Sorry for not giving you the credit you crave, but most of us don't have a
> memory like a steel trap where nothing ever escapes.

Hi badgolferman,

Happy Thanksgiving.

My job here is to feed the facts to this child-like Apple newsgroup.
o Not for apologists - but for the permanent Usenet record to preserve.

All I care about are the facts... and I comprehend facts rather well.
o In fact, I valiantly tried to find a functionality on iOS not on Android

Yet even I failed.

> If this topic has come

> up before IĒve forgotten about it. I also have no interest in scanning

> through reams of Google Groups discussions which is so hard to read anyway,
> especially on a phone. Just call me lazy.

I can summarize the results of about 85 posts.
o There will never be functionality on iOS that isn't already on Android

The reason is logical and simple.
o Apple restricts what the device can do; Android doesn't.

Anything that people want, will be written by developers.
o If there is a need, then the developers will make it.

On Apple you won't get some of that (e.g., automatic call recorders).
o On Android, you will.

This is simple rational, reasonable logic.
o It's how adults think.

> My question had nothing to do with the hardware or operating system
> capabilities of Apple or Android devices, it was more along the lines of
> what app can't you do without.

My point on hardware is that Apple has no monopoly on hardware
o Nor does Apple have a monopoly on software

The only thing Apple has a monopoly on is the App Store
o And that restricts what apps you can put on the iOS device.

This is simple rational, reasonable logic.
o It's how adults think.

> For me thatĒs NewsTap or the free version

> which is NewsTapLite. There is only one app on Google Play store which is
> remotely capable and it's Pyongyang or something like that. Even then it
> places a footer in the message which I don't want. It's also quite clunky
> and hard to use.

It has been a long time since I've used NewsTap, but I never found it all
that useful, at least in the free version it wasn't.
o Are you using the free version of NewsTap or the payware?

Even so, I fully agree that on Android, the Usenet clients suck.
o I don't know why they suck; but I agree they suck.

I simply read news via a web client, which is easily enough done
o I even wrote a tutorial on how to do that (works for iOS also)

o Hint for another way to read Usenet newsgroups in a single tap
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/GrP0mMnqIzM/m/G05WgSLDBgAJ>

> I know it's been slow in this newsgroup lately but try not to take my
> original message as a personal affront. Happy Thanksgiving to you and
> everyone else.

You misread me.
o My goal here is rather simple.

You have to remember how badly the apologists screwed me before I learned
that almost nothing works on iOS that works on all other platforms but iOS.

They sent me on wild-goose chases; they claimed functionality that was
purely imaginary; and I believed them, in my naivety and open trust.

That's before I learned that all apologists are worthless pieces of shit.
o Type I (nospam) will brazenly lie to your face and not even blink.
o Type II (Alan Browne) are literally both petrified & horrified by facts.
o Type III (Jolly Roger) are quadrant 1 Dunning-Kruger wacky cultists.

My job here is to feed the facts to this child-like Apple newsgroup.
o Not for apologists - but for the permanent Usenet record to preserve.

Happy Thanksgiving

[nospam]

In article <rporfg$135b$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, badgolferman

<REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:


> Our critics are often our best teachers. Every group needs someone who
> thinks differently.

there's a significant difference between valid criticism and deliberate
trolling, especially when the latter can so easily be shown to be
false.

[Ammammata]

On Thursday 26/11/2020 badgolferman wrote:
> Yet there
> is at least one app on iOS which keeps me from taking that plunge —
> NewsTap. There is no viable Usenet NNTP app on the Google Play store which
> is anywhere near NewsTap in functionality and ease of use.

there is this one:

https://is.gd/SvCrrI PiaoHong Newsreader

that has several limits, but it has been "mod-ded" by a user (alfio,
dif-tor heh smusma), references are in it.tlc.cellulari.android

--
/-\ /\/\ /\/\ /-\ /\/\ /\/\ /-\ T /-\

[Ammammata]

Il giorno Fri 27 Nov 2020 09:26:20a, *Ammammata* ha inviato su
misc.phone.mobile.iphone il messaggio
news:mn.da367e4bea...@tiscali.it. Vediamo cosa ha scritto:

> references are in it.tlc.cellulari.android
>

https://is.gd/Vdctyx (send to TinyUpload)

--
/-\ /\/\ /\/\ /-\ /\/\ /\/\ /-\ T /-\

-=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- -=- - -=-
........... [ al lavoro ] ...........

[Arlen Holder]

On Thu, 26 Nov 2020 13:39:50 -0500, nospam wrote:

> there's a significant difference between valid criticism and deliberate
> trolling, especially when the latter can so easily be shown to be
> false.

Hi nospam,

Grow up and stop being a coward who clearly _hates_ all facts about Apple.
o You cowards have absolutely no defense to facts.

So all you "can" do, is play your silly childishly infantile games, nospam.

You childishly claim all facts you hate about Apple, must be "trolls"...
o ...simply because you _hate_ almost all facts about Apple products.

If you have any facts... this is your chance to prove you're not a child.
*Name just one*

If you feel there is even one iOS app functionality not on Android
o Name just one.

It's what an adult would do.
o *Name just one*

All you apologists can only incessantly play your silly childish games.
o Because you _hate_ iOS has not a single app functionality not on Android.

If you know of app functionality on iOS not on Android, nospam
o *Name just one*

At least both Alan Browne and I answered badgolferman's question.
o We both essentially told him there isn't any (and there never will be)

You always _hate_ the truth nospam
o Hemidactylus clearly hates the truth even more than you hate the truth.

But neither one of you has come up with any facts.

If you think there is iOS app functionality not on Android...
o *Name Just One*

Without that, nobody yet has _ever_ found a single functionality on iOS
o Not already on even a five year old Android phone.

If you think you know of iOS app functionality not on Android, nospam
o *Name Just One*

If you have a functionality that you feel is on iOS not on Android...
o *Name just one.*

I realize you're not used to acting like an adult - but try for once.
o Instead of calling all facts you don't like, "trolls"...
(Which is almost all facts about Apple products that you don't like.)

If you feel there is even one iOS app functionality not on Android
o *Name just one*.
--
It's what an actual _adult_ would do...

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 27.11.20 um 09:26 schrieb Ammammata:

> On Thursday 26/11/2020 badgolferman wrote:
>> Yet there
>> is at least one app on iOS which keeps me from taking that plunge —
>> NewsTap. There is no viable Usenet NNTP app on the Google Play store which
>> is anywhere near NewsTap in functionality and ease of use.
>
> there is this one:
>
> https://is.gd/SvCrrI PiaoHong Newsreader

That is utter crap!
This so called newsreader is not adhering to any standards and a
nuisance for all other users in the usenet.

[Joerg Lorenz]

Am 27.11.20 um 09:27 schrieb Ammammata:

> Il giorno Fri 27 Nov 2020 09:26:20a, *Ammammata* ha inviato su
> misc.phone.mobile.iphone il messaggio
> news:mn.da367e4bea...@tiscali.it. Vediamo cosa ha scritto:
>
>> references are in it.tlc.cellulari.android
>>
>
> https://is.gd/Vdctyx (send to TinyUpload)

Do you really believe that experienced users follow shortened links by
Tiny-URL or other URL-shorteners?

[Ammammata]

Il giorno Fri 27 Nov 2020 12:00:49p, *Joerg Lorenz* ha inviato su
misc.phone.mobile.iphone il messaggio news:rpqm91$toe$2...@dont-email.me.
Vediamo cosa ha scritto:

> This so called newsreader is not adhering to any standards and a
> nuisance for all other users in the usenet.
>

"innanz che nagot, mej innanz" :)

--
/-\ /\/\ /\/\ /-\ /\/\ /\/\ /-\ T /-\

[Ammammata]

Il giorno Fri 27 Nov 2020 12:02:38p, *Joerg Lorenz* ha inviato su
misc.phone.mobile.iphone il messaggio news:rpqmce$toe$3...@dont-email.me.
Vediamo cosa ha scritto:

> experienced users

they know how to translate it before clicking, you don't seem one of them

anyway: http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=60262675888706397985

[Zaidy036]

NewsTap is great because it can use news,rc files that are in Dropbox
and so can Thunderbird on my PC so both my iPhone/iPad and PC
newsreaders are in sync. The only effort is to make sure and NOT run
both at the same time.

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 27 Nov 2020 10:31:55 -0500, Zaidy036 wrote:

> NewsTap is great because it can use news,rc files that are in Dropbox
> and so can Thunderbird on my PC so both my iPhone/iPad and PC
> newsreaders are in sync. The only effort is to make sure and NOT run
> both at the same time.

Hi Zaidy036,

Are you extolling the virtues of the freeware or of the payware?
o Please be specific.

Unfortunately badgolfmerman didn't answer the valid question of whether
we're comparing apples to apples in terms of _free_ ad free functionality
or not.

Are we?
o Are you discussing, for example, the "payware" or the "crippleware"?

The reason I ask is I have _used_ the iOS NewsTap freeware in the past
o And it sucked like you can't believe in terms of functionality.

NOTE: I'm not saying the Android freeware is any better than the iOS
freeware, or vice versa; I'm just trying to figure out _what_ app you're
talking about (and badgolferman) since neither of you is specific.

Facts matter.

Are you extolling the virtues of the freeware or of the payware?
o Please be specific.

[badgolferman]

Arlen Holder wrote:

>Unfortunately badgolfmerman didn't answer the valid question of

>whether we're comparing apples to apples in terms of free ad free
>functionality or not.

I did answer it. I use NewsTap Lite. It's only limitation is a
maximum of one server and two groups. Everything else is the same.

[Chris]

badgolferman <REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Over the years I have strongly considered switching to Android devices.
> Sometimes out of curiosity, sometimes out of frustration and anger with the
> direction Apple has taken with their devices or operating system. Yet there
> is at least one app on iOS which keeps me from taking that plunge —
> NewsTap. There is no viable Usenet NNTP app on the Google Play store which
> is anywhere near NewsTap in functionality and ease of use. I use an old
> Samsung Galaxy S3 to test what I can find and my son uses Android so
> sometimes I ask him to try one out. But in any case all research I’ve done
> shows there isn’t anything decent available for Android. I’ve checked with
> the developer and he says no to Android.
>
> My understanding is the iOS version of Gmail is better and has some
> different functionality but I guess I could get used to that.
>
> Is there one app you must have that only is available on iOS?

Facetime, ApplePay, Find My, and the family sharing stuff.

[badgolferman]

I will agree about Apple Pay. It seems to be more widespread than Google
Pay. Works well too.

[nospam]

In article <rprsrm$1j6d$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, badgolferman

<REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> Is there one app you must have that only is available on iOS?
> >
> > Facetime, ApplePay, Find My, and the family sharing stuff.
> >
> >
>
> I will agree about Apple Pay. It seems to be more widespread than Google
> Pay. Works well too.

availability should be the same, since they both use standard emv.

apple pay engagement, however, is significantly higher than google pay.

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 27 Nov 2020 19:24:35 +0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote:

> I did answer it. I use NewsTap Lite. It's only limitation is a
> maximum of one server and two groups. Everything else is the same.

Ah, my apologies.

I had not seen your reply until now, where it's a classic trait
on the child-like Apple newsgroups for people like nospam to make a claim
and then never back it up with even a single actual fact (as their belief
systems are based purely on what MARKETING has fed them to believe).

I am sorry I had not seen (and still have not seen) your response, but I
accept that you responded by saying you used the freeware (crippleware
actually) NewsTap, as did I (long ago) on my many iPads.

Thanks for answering the question, as I had tested the same NewsTap
crippleware on iOS (long ago, when Michelle Steiner was handing out free
NewTap licenses!) and I found it severely lacking in functionality.

Not that the Android newsreaders are any more or less functional, mind you,
as nobody on the Android newsgroup is claiming they're fantastic either.

My belief systems are _always_ based upon cold hard published facts
o Which is why my credibility on facts is 100% stellar (and always will be)

You may disagree with my assessments - but you can never question facts
o Example of FACT: Newsreader functionality exist on both platforms.
o Example of an ASSESSMENT of fact: Both suck.

Note: Most apologists are so incredibly stupid they can't differentiate
between something even as trivially simple as that difference.

In essence, you picked an app functionality that exists on both platforms,
but just barely (at least just barely for free, ad free, gsf free, and
google free, which is what I always strive for, whether or not I get that).

Rest assured, despite the infantile apologists thinking otherwise, I am
extremely well balanced when it comes to assessing software functionality,
where you don't know what I did in the Silicon Valley for decades, but rest
assured the stuff I worked with is about as complex as software can be made
- and I excelled at that.

There are two distinct but intertwined topics here, which are:
a. Is there any functionality on iOS not already on (5-year old) Android?
b. Is there any functionality on iOS that is _better_ than that on Android?

The first one is easier to answer; the second is subject to immense
interpretation, so it has as many different answers as there are people
answering it (since assessments will naturally vary among adults).

In my humblest of opinions, both iOS and Android have freeware "newsreader
functionality", where, in my humble personal assessment, both suck.

And that's based on facts, as it's not like nobody ever asked:

o Groundhog finally bites the dust in Android 10, by 123456789
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/m-YpgrvEEiA>
o NNTP Android Client, by Joe Rock
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/4jg0n79iZBc>
o Newsgroup reader needed, by pinnerite
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/H0ngEWe-818>
o Any good Android newsreaders?, by Cameo
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/Oqc4fylq8yI>
o Anyone ever manage to get any android usenet reader to work? by F Murtz
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/BC7va1QK0Yc>
o Most populair and useful usenet client for text, by BugHunter
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/KmCRrjjfIKs>
o Android Newsgroup Reader that doesn't suck? by Triscal Islington
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/VcfzxGq1MA8>
o Newsgroup Reader by John Geoffrey
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/Z-ZUUdnkcEY>
o What is a good free Usenet news reader for Android? by Winston_Smith
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/WUX6T9ADy60>
o Android newsreaders <-- L00k If you use one or want to see a new one,
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/MNfuOAYniEQ>
o Android usenet reader by myglasses.com
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/XwD1hOz_sX4>
o Reader for Newgroups, by Keith Nuttle
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/PBu1TMSt4pQ>
o Newsreader app?, by Sparky
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/eku_mPUjukE>
o Android NNTP client, by tlvp
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/aWlwPV_-j64>
o NNTP client for Android phones ( 880x480 ), by Poutnik
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/SCoJcswl84w>
o What's a good freeware Android nntp newsreader (other than Zoldar Groundhog)?
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/ZGItZa2tBV4>
o usenet (newsgroups) client, by pinnerite
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/O2VpXujyahA>
o Usenet, by Bob Bloggs
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/2qIRXGlCRU0>
etc.
--
There is no app functionality on iOS not already on 5-year old Android.

[badgolferman]

Arlen Holder wrote:

>On Fri, 27 Nov 2020 19:24:35 +0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote:
>
>> I did answer it. I use NewsTap Lite. It's only limitation is a
>> maximum of one server and two groups. Everything else is the same.
>
>

>I am sorry I had not seen (and still have not seen) your response,
>but I accept that you responded by saying you used the freeware
>(crippleware actually) NewsTap, as did I (long ago) on my many iPads.

I wouldn't want to get in any sort of argument with you about semantics
because it would surely be a losing proposition. Suffice it to say I
thought I had made it clear I use NewsTap Lite but perhaps it was only
in my mind. The headers of my message also don't make that clear
unfortunately.

>Thanks for answering the question, as I had tested the same NewsTap
>crippleware on iOS (long ago, when Michelle Steiner was handing out
>free NewTap licenses!) and I found it severely lacking in
>functionality.

Yes, I had a free license at one time also but switched Apple IDs and
couldn't move it over so that's why I use the free version now. The
limitation of only two newsgroups does not affect me negatively.

>Not that the Android newsreaders are any more or less functional,
>mind you, as nobody on the Android newsgroup is claiming they're
>fantastic either.

The Android newsreaders are pure trash. Only one is barely usable.

>There are two distinct but intertwined topics here, which are:
>a. Is there any functionality on iOS not already on (5-year old)
>Android?

This was not a topic I brought up, but you connected it to a previous
one.

>b. Is there any functionality on iOS that is better than
>that on Android?

This one is closer, but the question was is there any app that keeps
you from switching?

>The first one is easier to answer; the second is subject to immense
>interpretation, so it has as many different answers as there are
>people answering it (since assessments will naturally vary among
>adults).
>
>In my humblest of opinions, both iOS and Android have freeware
>"newsreader functionality", where, in my humble personal assessment,
>both suck.
>

Compared to a real desktop newsreader they both suck, but compared to
each other Android newsreaders suck far more than NewsTap or the Lite
version.

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 27 Nov 2020 17:11:02 -0500, nospam wrote:

>>>> Is there one app you must have that only is available on iOS?
>>>
>>> Facetime, ApplePay, Find My, and the family sharing stuff.
>>>
>>
>> I will agree about Apple Pay. It seems to be more widespread than Google
>> Pay. Works well too.
>
> availability should be the same, since they both use standard emv.
>
> apple pay engagement, however, is significantly higher than google pay.

These are completely different questions that most apologists can't fathom:
a. Is there any app functionality on iOS not on (five year old) Android?
b. Is there an app on iOS that works better than a similar app on Android?

Of all the infantile apologists and fantastic morons on the child-like
Apple newsgroup, nospam is perhaps the only one who actually _understands_
the simple difference between an "app" and the app's "functionality".

Given the majority of infantile apologists don't seem to know the
difference, it's refreshing to see nospam say something honestly for once.

There's no app functionality (that anyone has ever found) on iOS that isn't
on Android (probably not even on five year old Android, at that).

But there are plenty of trademarked brand-name apps that are on any one
platform but not the other.

These are completely different questions that most apologists can't fathom:
a. Is there any app functionality on iOS not on (five year old) Android?
b. Is there an app on iOS that works better than a similar app on Android?
--
What has ceased to shock me is that apologists can't tell the difference.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 28 Nov 2020 01:50:46 +0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote:

> I wouldn't want to get in any sort of argument with you about semantics
> because it would surely be a losing proposition.

Hi badgolferman,

The conversation below is deeper than most people can go... so be warned.

That's an interesting assessment, where you appear to be a "normal" person,
which, you have to admit, is common on the adult newsgroups, but a rarity
on the Apple newsgroups for some reason that intrigues me to no end.

Rest assured I'm on all the adult OS newsgroups, where what happens on
Apple newsgroups is nothing like what happens on those other newsgroups.

As an example, there's no love lost for either Google nor for Microsoft on
those adult newsgroups - it's only on Apple newsgroups where people like
Jolly Roger & Alan Baker effuse so gullibly over what turns out to always
be meaningless MARKETING shills.

Hence, it's refreshing to find at least a handful of adults on this
newsgroup (David Empson used to be one, Michelle Steiner another) who
appear to be normal (e.g., you, Ant, JF Mezei, et al.).

> Suffice it to say I
> thought I had made it clear I use NewsTap Lite but perhaps it was only
> in my mind. The headers of my message also don't make that clear
> unfortunately.

Headers are meaningless (look at mine, for example, where the only
meaningful header is the Subject line and where, even though Frank Slootweg
claims otherwise), I can easily change any header that's not injected by
the NNTP server itself.

The rest of the headers can easily be spoofed, which the smarter apologists
know (such as nospam for example, but, incredibly, most apologists are
clueless, as witnessed by this shockingly true episode with one of them):
o Apologists like Alan Baker actually believe everything in an NNTP header
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/EiNl6hyMBDo>

Please bear in mind the apologists screwed me royally years ago, sending me
on multiple wild-goose chases, where it intrigued me that people like that
existed, as I had never encountered people that incredibly stupid before in
my life of education and startups (where they couldn't last a week).

What interests me about them is how _different_ & yet consistent they are.
o Type I (nospam) basically are an extension of Apple MARKETING on facts.
o Type II (Alan Browne) are normal, but incredibly unscientific on facts.
o Type III (Lewis) are stunted cultist who spew hateful vitriol to facts.

Basically, I feel by now, after having studied them for quite a long time,
that I can predict almost everything they will say, since they don't have
all that much of a repertoire.

For example, did you notice that Alan Browne, while clearly being immune to
facts (he says so himself he filters them out), at least provided you
"some" input (however factually incorrect).

Yet, did you notice Hemidactylus provided _only_ hateful vitriol?
o It's _important_ that you realize the huge distinction.

Meanwhile, _only_ nospam knows the answer to your question of all the
apologists. This would be refreshing if he would ever tell the truth (and
he did a decent job, by the way, when he explained Apple Pay which you need
to listen to him on, as what he said was reasonably accurate for once.

As I said, these apologists interest me, much like the lemon-juice bank
robber interested Dunning and Kruger, where it's only nospam who _knows_
what's going on, in fact - but he - like MARKETING - will only spew that
which MARKETING will say - so he's still a coin toss on credibility.

The rest are shockingly wrong on their facts, where it boggles my mind
people can be as dumb as Jolly Roger, Joerg Lorenz, Lewis, BK, Chris, Alan
Baker, Tim Streater, et al., and still be functional in today's world.

Those Type II apologists like Steve Scharf (sms), Alan Browne, Savageduck,
et al., are simply people who are, I suspect, all only guilty of being
utterly incapable of handling the rigors of scientific and engineering
curriculum, as it's shocking how little any of them doublecheck facts.

As just one example, sms _still_ believes that Qualcomm royalties went
down, which, while I admit the legal agreements were a bit complex, I would
expect people of normal intelligence to be able to figure out.

Sadly, there are very few people of normal intelligence on this newsgroup.
o Surprisingly, nospam is one of them.

He's not smart by any means (he's devious, but not smart, as witnessed by
the fact he can only resort to childish games when pushed against the wall
on his claims of fact).

Me?
o I've worked & studied with truly intelligent people (for decades).

So I can only say I likely only have what I'd consider normal intelligence
(shockingly, that's far & above most people on this child-like newsgroup).

> Yes, I had a free license at one time also but switched Apple IDs and
> couldn't move it over so that's why I use the free version now. The
> limitation of only two newsgroups does not affect me negatively.

I have a similar story; Michelle Steiner gave me a free license to test
NewsTap, and even then I found it lacking, but I don't remember the
details.

Then I gave that iPad away, although it came back to me recently, but it's
dead because Apple is screwing around with the user id for some reasons
unbeknownst to me (and it doesn't matter all that much, as I have so many
iPads that I don't use any of them anymore, except to prove the apologists
wrong when they make their utterly fact-free baseless claims of imaginary
functionality).

In summary though, both iOS and Android have free newsreader functionality;
but in my humblest of assessments, both leave a lot to be desired.

>>Not that the Android newsreaders are any more or less functional,
>>mind you, as nobody on the Android newsgroup is claiming they're
>>fantastic either.
>
> The Android newsreaders are pure trash. Only one is barely usable.

I'm not going to disagree with you as I would assess that the free Android
Usenet clients I've tested suck.

However, you must admit that the NewsTap free client is horridly limited.

Even so, typing is a huge problem on any mobile phone input medium,
although I just downloaded a free app for Android that uses the wireless
keyboard to type on Android, which might be an interesting utility if it
works.

>>There are two distinct but intertwined topics here, which are:
>>a. Is there any functionality on iOS not already on (5-year old)
>>Android?
>
> This was not a topic I brought up, but you connected it to a previous
> one.

You are correct and I do realize and accept that assessment.

>>b. Is there any functionality on iOS that is better than
>>that on Android?
>
> This one is closer, but the question was is there any app that keeps
> you from switching?

Here's where I take a pragmatic approach to people.
o Most people appear to be incredibly stupid. Let's face it.

They _believe_ the MARKETING bullshit (e.g., "Techron").
o That MARKETING bullshit sways their opinion greatly.

What they do is "hear" the innuendo - and then - they intuit the rest.
o They seem to trust their intuition far more than they trust any facts.

Me?

I don't trust my intuition one little bit. Not in the least.
o The instant I heard "Techron", I called up Chevron to ask what it was.

Turns out not only is it just "soap for gas", and that those same Chevron
polyetheramines are in all Tier-I fuels, such as Costco is (& many others).

So would "I" pay more for Chevron gasoline "with Techron" than at Costco?
o Nope.

But the question is would MOST PEOPLE pay more for Chevron than Costco?
o *I think that answer might very well be yes*.

And _that_ is a VERY VERY VERY VERY IMPORTANT STATEMENT INDEED!
o You have to ask yourself why that would be the case.

And then you know why many people "think" Apple has "better functionality",
or "better quality", or "better privacy" or "better security" than it
actually has.

This is a deeper analysis than it might at first appear to be.
o It's essentially proof that MARKETING bullshit works on stupid people

And, that there are a _lot_ of stupid people out there.
o Which is, IMHO, why Apple profits are so ungodly immense.

Given Apple's R&D is ridiculously low & yet their MARKETING is stellar.

NOTE: EVERY marketing term I tend to call the company & look up, e.g.:
o Costco Chevron Delo 400SDE CK-4/SN SAE 15W40 Diesel Engine Oil in a Gasoline Engine
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.autos.tech/c/TnF2EPyxcoA>

>>The first one is easier to answer; the second is subject to immense
>>interpretation, so it has as many different answers as there are
>>people answering it (since assessments will naturally vary among
>>adults).
>>
>>In my humblest of opinions, both iOS and Android have freeware
>>"newsreader functionality", where, in my humble personal assessment,
>>both suck.
>>
>
> Compared to a real desktop newsreader they both suck, but compared to
> each other Android newsreaders suck far more than NewsTap or the Lite
> version.

Well, I don't know if you know, but I gave up on "newsreaders" even on the
desktop, where I use telnet to post (which is one reason why I have full
and total control of all headers not injected by the NNTP server).

So what I edit in is simply "vi" (on Linux) or "vim" (on Windows).

It's actually one reason why I don't plonk people like Snit or Alan Baker
more often - because I have to manually add them to a dictionary file,
which is a pita since my script directory has become a mess over the years.

Nonetheless, I "could" make the claim that there's no universally accepted
great newsreader client on the desktop, although that's for this ng to say:
o <http://tinyurl.com/news-software-readers>

In summary, it's refreshing to be able to discuss things on an Apple
newsgroup with a person who isn't an apologist, as the apologists are who
ruin the Apple newsgroups (IMHO) and not the normal people who simply tell
the truth (whether MARKETING would like that truth, or not).
--
Note I tell the truth about _all_ operating systems I use - not just Apple.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 28 Nov 2020 02:37:37 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> Nonetheless, I "could" make the claim that there's no universally accepted
> great newsreader client on the desktop, although that's for this ng to say:
> o <http://tinyurl.com/news-software-readers>

As evidence, notice this recent Windows thread about that very same topic:
o Simple, free newsreader, by Rene Lamontagne
<https://alt.comp.os.windows-10.narkive.com/78CMdc3W/simple-free-newsreader>

From: Rene Lamontagne <rla...@shaw.ca>
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10
Subject: Simple, free newsreader
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 13:52:30 -0600
Message-ID: <i2d3nv...@mid.individual.net>

Age old question, I want to replace my Thunderbird newsreader with
something with a very similar GUI, free is preferable. Reason is that I
am having trouble with quoted text, some is tiny, some is large, can't
get a happy medium, I have tried all the settings I can find in options.

So far I have tried Grabit and Pan but not really what I want, I am not
interested in binaries, all I want is text with a 3 pane layout like
Thunderbird.

Any suggestions along these lines would be welcome as I don't want to
install and try literally dozens of different ones, life is getting too
short :-)
Thanks to all,

Rene

[badgolferman]

Tell your friend to try out Xananews. That is my desktop client of choice.
Windows only.

Unfortunately the developer abandoned it a few years ago but someone else
picked it up and worked on it for a while. I don’t know if it’s still being
developed but it works perfectly fine for everything I use it for. In fact
the monthly statistics I post is one of its features.

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-11-27 6:37 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Nov 2020 01:50:46 +0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote:
>
>> I wouldn't want to get in any sort of argument with you about semantics
>> because it would surely be a losing proposition.
>
> Hi badgolferman,
>
> The conversation below is deeper than most people can go... so be warned.

LOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

Good one!

Oh... ...you were serious.

LOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

[Ken Blake]

I never use any newsreader on my Android phone. Except when I travel,
I'm never more than a few hours away from my desktop computer and I'll
wait until I get home. When I travel, I'm on vacation and don't want to
waste any time with newsgroups.


--
Ken

[Frank Slootweg]

Arlen Holder <arlen_...@newmachines.com> wrote:

[No idea why you're constantly copy-posting stuff between all kinds of
threads, even in the same newsgroup(s), but I digress.]

[...]

> Headers are meaningless (look at mine, for example, where the only
> meaningful header is the Subject line and where, even though Frank Slootweg
> claims otherwise), I can easily change any header that's not injected by
> the NNTP server itself.

Ah, I see you've moved the goalposts (back).

Well, while (IMO) not completely correct, I can live with your
redefined/refined claim. So you can put this 'dispute' to rest.

[...]

[Frank Slootweg]

Ken Blake <k...@invalidemail.com> wrote:
[...]

> I never use any newsreader on my Android phone. Except when I travel,
> I'm never more than a few hours away from my desktop computer and I'll
> wait until I get home. When I travel, I'm on vacation and don't want to
> waste any time with newsgroups.

Here, here! There, there! :-)

Same here. While we do have my laptop with us on our travels/holidays,
I don't use it for NetNews/Usenet.

[Ken Blake]

I used to take a laptop with me, then I switched to a tablet because it
was smaller and lighter. Now I just take my smart phone, which is even
smaller and lighter. It's fine for everything I want to do--e-mail,
weather forecasts on the web, making restaurant reservations on the web,
Google maps, and reading Kindle books.

--
Ken

[Alan Browne]

On 2020-11-28 15:11, Ken Blake wrote:

> I used to take a laptop with me, then I switched to a tablet because it
> was smaller and lighter. Now I just take my smart phone, which is even
> smaller and lighter. It's fine for everything I want to do--e-mail,
> weather forecasts on the web, making restaurant reservations on the web,
> Google maps, and reading Kindle books.

Short trips I leave the laptop behind (I don't even have one for work
anymore but can grab my SO's and she can use my iMac in the interim if
it comes to that).

Longer trips I prefer having the laptop along - though last dive trip we
didn't bother and didn't miss it .... though would have been nice to
backup photography/video to it. I had ample card capacity for 1 week.

--
"...there are many humorous things in this world; among them the white
man's notion that he is less savage than the other savages."
-Samuel Clemens

[Frank Slootweg]

[N.B. Since we're not ranting, we might as well change the subject! :-)]

[N.B. Because this is not really platform/manufacturer-dependent, I'll
keep the iPhone group.]

I tried that approach as well. First a 'netbook' (small Windows XP
laptop) and later an Android tablet.

But our travels/holidays are (read: were (fscking virus!)) often for
several months on end, often in sparsely/un populated areas with
limited/expensive/no Internet access and we found we often needed
access to our 'archives' of documentation/information (files, e-mail,
etc.). So a tablet just wasn't practical: Too much hassle to try to keep
it in sync with the laptop (remember: limited/expensive/no Internet
access), not to mention trying to have several hundreds of MB of local
storage *and* (local) backup of that storage.

So we carry the Windows laptop, a USB HDD and (Macrium Reflect Free)
Recovery Media (on a USB memory stick). As long as we don't lose the
latter two, I can always recover the laptop and its contents, even from
a new one.

Yes, our requirements are quite unusual, except for other nitwits who
like to do what we do! :-)

These unusual requirements often make it quite tiring to explain to
people (not you) why their 'solutions' don't satisfy our needs/wants.
Several - I think you can think of at least one :-) - go as far as
telling me that I don't need what I want, don't know what I want, etc..

Oh, and we *also* carry a (Android) tablet and a (Android) smartphone
(or a couple of smartphones (don't ask!)! :-)

[Arlen Holder]

On 28 Nov 2020 19:05:25 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

>> Headers are meaningless (look at mine, for example, where the only
>> meaningful header is the Subject line and where, even though Frank Slootweg
>> claims otherwise), I can easily change any header that's not injected by
>> the NNTP server itself.
>
> Ah, I see you've moved the goalposts (back).
>
> Well, while (IMO) not completely correct, I can live with your
> redefined/refined claim. So you can put this 'dispute' to rest.

Hi Frank,

One thing about you is you have a decent memory, which is good because that's
part of being intelligent (e.g., nospam's memory is, selectively, worthless).

You remembered (as did I) how you responded to Snit's revealing video "proving"
that iOS had even the most basic of Wi-Fi debugging functionality
(and yet, it didn't and still doesn't even as apologists fabricate it does).

From that you should realize that I remember my conversations with you Frank.
o And I remember this one (which is harder to dig up in the permanent record).

You also know about nntp headers, as do I, where you may even know them better:
o <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/KTrvRwL_aPo/m/NXx5Vjo_AwAJ>

My claim is I can change any header that is not injected by the nntp server
o This shouldn't be surprising to you given you know telnet works fine

What's interesting is the utter moronic Type III apologists claim otherwise:
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/0em2ljU_IpQ/m/oiBykjKSAwAJ>

You also made a similar claim, long ago, oh, maybe five or more years ago.
o It's good you remember that, as I remember telling you telnet can do it.

For example, to enable Telnet from an admin cmd window on Windows 10:
o dism /online /Enable-Feature /FeatureName:TelnetClient

To post to an nntp server using telnet, this is an example:
telnet reader80.eternal-september.org 80
200 news.eternal-september.org InterNetNews NNRP server INN 2.7.0 (20170224 snapshot) ready (posting ok)
help
post
340 Ok, recommended message-ID <ro45gd$e0a#3...@anonymous.dont-email.me>
GROUP alt.test
211 2653 3 3437 alt.test
POST
340 Send Article to be Posted
From: f...@example.com
Subject: Testing ET posting
Message-ID: <ro45gd$e0a#3...@anonymous.dont-email.me>
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android
User-Agent: tin/1.6.2-20030910 ("Pabbay") (UNIX) (CYGWIN_NT-6.3-WOW/2.8.0(0.309/5/3) (i686)) Hamster/2.0.2.2

This is a test
.

quit

Note: That's mostly cut and pasted from a tutorial I wrote long ago
where I haven't recently tested that particular server, which may
now require encryption and login/password, but that doesn't change
anything about what we're talking about that can be changed.

But notice the "User-Agent" line is exactly that of yours.
o These are factual details the moronic Type III apologists can't fathom.

Notice in this shockingly revealing thread, the utter moron Type III
apologist Alan Baker actually _believes_ everything in the header!
o Proof positive these Type III apologists are incredibly gullible
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/EiNl6hyMBDo>

Notice the infantile apologists think that facts are always wrong:
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/0em2ljU_IpQ/m/77Ri95eaAwAJ>

Simply because they consistently prove to be utterly immune to basic facts:
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/0em2ljU_IpQ/m/tuqRa6nbAwAJ>

As you know, I study these apologists, where anyone who believes
the bullshit is real as much as these apologists do, deserves Apple.

Nonetheless, the post we _both_ are referring to is, I think, here:
o <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/sgzGVamjKU0/m/LK9yTmciAQAJ>

Where you said, and I quote, verbatim:
"That you say "as can the news server" and "as can any of the headers"
(note: any) shows that you do *not* (fully) know what you're talking about."

The point is that any line that isn't _injected_ by the news server can be spoofed:
o <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/sgzGVamjKU0/m/puHKs3kqAQAJ>

To which you responded that I was "out of my league", which is fine actually:
o <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/sgzGVamjKU0/m/RsrH1qpvAQAJ>

The reason it's fine is I'm always willing to learn, as, I'm sure, are you
o This is one thing that distinguishes us from the utter morons who can't.
--
Usenet is a casual medium so we're not always writing as if we're
composing a legal contract or a quantum physics textbook, where even
the headers injected by the NNTP server can be "changed" by changing
the NNTP server (although each server can inject different headers).

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 28 Nov 2020 22:27:03 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> Nonetheless, the post we _both_ are referring to is, I think, here:
> o <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/sgzGVamjKU0/m/LK9yTmciAQAJ>
>
> Where you said, and I quote, verbatim:
> "That you say "as can the news server" and "as can any of the headers"
> (note: any) shows that you do *not* (fully) know what you're talking about."
>
> The point is that any line that isn't _injected_ by the news server can be spoofed:
> o <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/sgzGVamjKU0/m/puHKs3kqAQAJ>

Hi Frank,

Let's get this long-standing (dis)agreement from March 23, 2018 over with.
o <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/sgzGVamjKU0/m/LK9yTmciAQAJ>

I'm man enough to admit you are technically correct with what I think may
be your interpretation of "any", which is, I think, to mean "every".

I'm correct (I believe) in how I had casually used "any" in an ad hoc
Usenet post, which was to mean any header not injected by the news server
(and, by extension, by the series of news servers as is the case with
PATH:, although see the sig below for how to modify even the PATH: header).

I had never intended my casual "any" to mean your "every", so to speak, but
I can definitely see where you could easily have assumed I had meant
"every" when I casually said I could change my headers (in response to some
infantile idiocy from one of the moronic Apple apologists, as I recall).

Hence I apologize for not being clear in what I had meant (although I did
clarify that at the time, as shown in that conversation between you & me.

What we don't want to do is be like these Type III apologists, where when I
explained that the User-Agent: is spoofed, Alan Baker _insisted_ for post
after post after post after post after post that it was a "lie by liars".

To these type III apologists, they're so utterly immune to facts, that it
was inconceivable that the User-Agent: header line could be spoofed at all,
let alone trivially be spoofed (or removed for that matter).

This thread explains a lot about the psychology of the Type III apologists:
o Any fact Type III apologists can't fathom is, to them, a "lie by liars"
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/EiNl6hyMBDo>

Please, Dear God, let's _not_ be like those moron Apple apologists!

I openly admit that you are correct if you assume "any" means "every", that
I can't spoof _every_ header (other than to change news servers which
"changes" them, but whose changes I can't control easily); but that I can
spoof "any" header which is not injected by the news server itself
(e.g., typically, even the date and time zone can easily be spoofed).

In the end, we were perhaps both correct in that we were ascribing
different meanings to the word "any", and where I'm man enough to admit
your interpretation of what I said is perhaps more correct than I had
loosely intended to say when I first made that comment years ago in a
casual Usenet post to which you responded (and we're still discussing):
o <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/sgzGVamjKU0/m/LK9yTmciAQAJ>
--
BTW, while I only briefly experimented with changing the PATH:, which, in
some cases, can be "modified" but not wholly controlled (AFAICT).

[badgolferman]

Arlen Holder wrote:

>My claim is I can change any header that is not injected by the nntp
>server

I don't see why this is unknown. Doesn't every client allow that?
Mine certainly does. Here are all the headers I am allowed to change
or even add others.

From:
Subject:
Newsgroups:
References:
User-Agent:
X-Face:

I can also add:
no archive
date headers
message id
and many others...

[Arlen Holder]

On 28 Nov 2020 19:19:06 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> Same here. While we do have my laptop with us on our travels/holidays,
> I don't use it for NetNews/Usenet.

As a purposefully helpful suggestion, you can make a web page shortcut link
to the newsgroup of choice, and at least you can _read_ the newsgroups from
a mobile device with a puny screen (e.g., an iPad or a mobile phone).
o <https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone>
o <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android>
o <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.ipad>

Me?

When traveling, I often need to interact with other people's computers.
o Or, I need to temporarily (or permanently) increase my phone's storage

Hence, sometimes I might if I have a problem, such as printing from my
phone to my Ethernet'd printer on my own LAN without using the cloud, where
I use Usenet as a reference for how to do technical things such as printing
from my phone to any convenient printer that I'm on the same subnet of:
o How to print over Wi-Fi from your mobile device to any Ethernet printer
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/nTAYljkvVl4>

Or, if I need to send or receive a file from any computer on the subnet:
o How to send a file over Wi-Fi from your mobile to any desktop computer
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/mbOyLNcrCK4>

Or if I add a SanDisk 400GB sdcard to my phone to handle the vacation vids:
o How to repopulate your external storage adding up to 512GB on vacation
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/NcqaYXSfFKE>

etc.
--
The point being that Usenet is a wealth of knowledge, just as the web is
o So to say you don't need it is sort of like saying you don't need the web

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 28 Nov 2020 23:41:55 +0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote:

> I don't see why this is unknown. Doesn't every client allow that?
> Mine certainly does. Here are all the headers I am allowed to change
> or even add others.

Hi badgolferman,

Again, this post is deeper than it might, at first, appear to be...
o Note how apologists trust their INTUITION more so than they trust facts?

It's why they _love_ Apple products!
o Deep down, Apple MARKETs directly to their INTUITION

They can't actually comprehend facts...
o But they are FANTASTIC at gravitating to their INTUITION

See below for details, where you are correct in your facts that "some"
newsreaders easily allow you to change any header not injected by the nntp
server, which is what Frank and I were discussing.

The problem arises when you have the infantile apologists involved
o Where Alan Baker insisted, post after post, it was a lie that I didn't
use NewsTap (or whatever my header showed).
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/0em2ljU_IpQ/m/oiBykjKSAwAJ>

And where Joerg Lorenz insisted (because that's how his brain "intuits"
things) that "only idiots" use news servers which don't require a login.
o <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/sgzGVamjKU0/m/xj2X4Wn9AAAJ>

Notice how STRONGLY the apologists believe their own INTUITION more so than
facts?

Rest assured Apple MARKETING is _happy_ to feed them things to intuit!
o This high trust in their intuition combined with their utter inability to
comprehend basic facts is hugely what makes the apologists what they are.

For example, the Type III Alan Baker apologist simply intuited that all
headers are facts, where he then insisted I was hiding the fact I used
NewsTap, where he was so very proud of NewsTap, which is funny when you
think about what sparked this thread in the first place... that is...
NewsTap!

Alan Baker, like all apologists, _believes_ whatever he's fed to believe
o <https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/EiNl6hyMBDo>

That's because his _intuition_ is stronger to him than contrary facts.
o To Alan Baker, a header _must_ be accurate at all times.

Why?
o Because he _intuits_ that the header is accurate (and yet, it's not)

The only difference between the apologists on this intuition topic is:
o Type I (nospam) can actually handle the facts - they just play MARKETING
o Type II (sms) can't comprehend most facts - but they "can" accept them
o Type III (Alan Baker) only believe what their intuition tells them

That's why they're so very wrong on headers, as Alan Baker proved to be.

Type III apologists, and Type II for that matter, have absolutely zero
comprehension that not everything is what it appears to be, which, I posit,
is why the child-like apologists gravitate so strongly to highly marketed
products like Apple products.

Type II apologists (e.g., Alan Browne) gravitate to highly marketed
products simply becuase they're not scientific enough to comprehend facts.

But Type III apologists (e.g., Alan Baker, Lewis, Jolly Roger, Joerg
Lorenz, et al.) are literally incapable of comprehending that the MARKETING
implies a lot but doesn't actually say the truth (e.g., Santa Claus doesn't
really exist even though MARKETING will highly intuit that he does exist).

In the case of headers, Type III apologists like Alan Baker literally
believe that Santa Claus exists, even well after being told that he
doesn't.

What Type III apologists first do is _deny_ the facts, claiming "liar liar
pants on fire", but then they begin the excuses where they claim that I was
using NewsTap and I didn't want to admit it (which is funny, don't you
think?).

The apologists can't fathom something as simple as a fact that you, me,
Frank, hell, even nospam knows.

I doubt many of the Type II apologists (e.g., Steve Scharf, Savageduck, et
al.) know these facts, but that's not because they're stupid like the Type
III apologists are - it's because they're not at all scientific.

Type II Apologists like Alan Browne simply don't ever check their facts.
o As an example, sms _still_ believes Qualcomm royalties went down.

Type I (nospam) are completely different by the way.
o He knows full well the headers are easily spoofed so he won't comment.

But he too plays with facts as, for example, he repeatedly claimed there
were iOS apps on the App Store that could graph WiFi signals over time -
and that was simply something he fabricated as imaginary functionality.

This concept of fabrication of imaginary functionally is something that is
common to all three types of apologists - and it is - in fact what defines
them in a key way.

Apologists are almost always incredibly immune to even basic facts
o Which, I posit, is why they gravitate to highly MARKETED products.

Anyway, back to the headers, apologists aside, what happened in March of
2018, as I recall, is the utter moron Joerg Lorenz made a comment about
headers that was classic when he claimed only "idiots" use news servers
sans logging into them.
o <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/sgzGVamjKU0/m/xj2X4Wn9AAAJ>

I tried to explain to the utter moron Joerg Lorenz the headers can be
spoofed quite easily, but, as we all know, apologists are immune to fact:
o <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/sgzGVamjKU0/m/lIe_xAEcAQAJ>

The Type III apologist BKatOnRamp chimed in with his infantile garbage:
o <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/sgzGVamjKU0/m/sKkUnUAhAQAJ>

And then Frank Slootweg popped in, to clarify my exact words to the moron
Joerg Lorenz.
o <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/sgzGVamjKU0/m/LK9yTmciAQAJ>

Clearly Frank Slootweg isn't an apologist (although he applauds them); but
what Frank objected to was my curt wording _to_ the moron apologists, where
I didn't (at that time) bother to clarify the exact headers and their types
(simply because the moron apologists couldn't possibly comprehend anyway -
plus it was a casual conversation _to_ an apologist - which means facts are
lost on them anyway).

I responded completely differently with Frank than to the apologists,
because Frank _does_ have the capacity to comprehend facts:
o <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/sgzGVamjKU0/m/puHKs3kqAQAJ>

And then, essentially, the rest of the thread went to hell as Jolly Roger,
BK at OnRamp, Joerg Lorenz, nospam, and other Apple apologists played their
infantile games (as they always do).

All because they _hate_ the facts about Apple products, where we never even
once mentioned the actual phone that the criminal was caught by using it:
o Does anyone know what phone the now-dead Austin bomber (who was tracked by police) was using?
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/sgzGVamjKU0>

Serious question of facts:
o Does anyone yet know what brand of phone this criminal was using?

[badgolferman]

Arlen Holder wrote:

>Serious question of facts:
>o Does anyone yet know what brand of phone this criminal was using?

Considering he blew himself up it must have been quite hearty to
survive a fatal blast.

[Frank Slootweg]

Arlen Holder <arlen_...@newmachines.com> wrote:
> On 28 Nov 2020 19:05:25 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>
> >> Headers are meaningless (look at mine, for example, where the only
> >> meaningful header is the Subject line and where, even though Frank Slootweg
> >> claims otherwise), I can easily change any header that's not injected by
> >> the NNTP server itself.
> >
> > Ah, I see you've moved the goalposts (back).
> >
> > Well, while (IMO) not completely correct, I can live with your
> > redefined/refined claim. So you can put this 'dispute' to rest.
>
> Hi Frank,

[...]

> You also know about nntp headers, as do I, where you may even know
> them better:
> o <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/KTrvRwL_aPo/m/NXx5Vjo_AwAJ>
>
> My claim is I can change any header that is not injected by the nntp server
> o This shouldn't be surprising to you given you know telnet works fine

[...]

> You also made a similar claim, long ago, oh, maybe five or more years ago.
> o It's good you remember that, as I remember telling you telnet can do it.

[...]

> To post to an nntp server using telnet, this is an example:

[...]

No need to tell me about that. As I said the post you referenced above:
(<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/KTrvRwL_aPo/m/NXx5Vjo_AwAJ>)

"Frank Slootweg, in a past life, (part-time) News server admin in some
tiny 150,000 employee company."

I've been running News servers since the early 80s (and still run a
personal one), wrote custom News server software, etc.. So there's no
need to tell me anything about using telnet to an NNTP port, headers,
etc..

[...]

> Nonetheless, the post we _both_ are referring to is, I think, here:
> o <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/sgzGVamjKU0/m/LK9yTmciAQAJ>
>
> Where you said, and I quote, verbatim:
> "That you say "as can the news server" and "as can any of the headers"
> (note: any) shows that you do *not* (fully) know what you're talking about."
>
> The point is that any line that isn't _injected_ by the news server
> can be spoofed:
> o <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/sgzGVamjKU0/m/puHKs3kqAQAJ>

Yes, but *now* (in this thread) your claim is conditional ("any line
that isn't _injected_ by the news server"), while it *was* unconditional
("as can any of the headers" (note "any"). Your original unconditional
claim was incorrect. Your current conditional claim is mostly correct.
So - as I said - you/we can put this 'dispute' to rest.

> To which you responded that I was "out of my league", which is fine actually:
> o <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/sgzGVamjKU0/m/RsrH1qpvAQAJ>

[...]

EOD.

[Frank Slootweg]

Arlen Holder <arlen_...@newmachines.com> wrote:

[Most already addressed in another response.]

[And yes, "any" (header) means "every" (header).]

> BTW, while I only briefly experimented with changing the PATH:, which, in
> some cases, can be "modified" but not wholly controlled (AFAICT).

Yes, the Path header is the only other 'debatable' header.

'Debatable', because strictly speaking it's not "injected by the news
server". It is / can be injected by the News client and is modified/
prepended by the News server. So it does not fall in your category of
exempted headers, but - as you say - it cannot be "wholly controlled",
i.e. you cannot put anything you like in it and expect it to appear
verbatim in the outgoing post.

So now we've covered all headers:

- headers injected by the News server

- the odd-one-out Path header

- all other headers

EOD.

[Arlen Holder]

On 29 Nov 2020 12:08:49 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> [And yes, "any" (header) means "every" (header).]

Hi Frank,

I am _different_ from most posters on the Apple newsgroups, although not so
much different than most on the adult OS newsgroups are, in that I don't
mind at all admitting when I don't know something, nor do I mind clarifying
what I said and why I had said what I said.

You have to remember that I was responding to the utter moronic Apple
posters (specifically Joerg Lorenz as I recall) who _believed_ every
header, much as the shockingly ignorant Alan Baker apologist did here:
o Nobody but an Apple apologist could possibly be this ignorant of fact
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/EiNl6hyMBDo>

You need to realize my "any" was in context to those utter morons.
o Do you think clarifying "any" would have made _any_ difference to them?

There's no fact that anyone could ever say that they'd comprehend
o So I was just trying to tell them that headers can be forged

Which, to this day, Type III apologists _still_ believe is impossible!

In summary, the _instant_ you said "any" (meaning "every") wasn't true, I
instantly explained to you what I had meant.

You and I are not in the same league as the Apple apologists, Frank.
o We have to vastly simplify every fact for them, Frank.

And even then, they _still_ believe all headers, as witnessed by Alan Baker
o Who on earth is _that_ stupid but these Type III Apple apologists, Frank?

>> BTW, while I only briefly experimented with changing the PATH:, which, in
>> some cases, can be "modified" but not wholly controlled (AFAICT).
>
> Yes, the Path header is the only other 'debatable' header.
>
> 'Debatable', because strictly speaking it's not "injected by the news
> server". It is / can be injected by the News client and is modified/
> prepended by the News server. So it does not fall in your category of
> exempted headers, but - as you say - it cannot be "wholly controlled",
> i.e. you cannot put anything you like in it and expect it to appear
> verbatim in the outgoing post.

Yes. We agree. We who are on the adult OS newsgroups have no problem
comprehending facts and therefore agreeing on reasonable sensible logic.

The PATH is a special case where I have been successful, long ago, in
experiments, in modifying the PATH, but as you said, it's not wholly
modifiable as sections are prepended by entities along the final route.

> So now we've covered all headers:
> - headers injected by the News server
> - the odd-one-out Path header
> - all other headers
> EOD.

Agreed where we, on the adult OS newsgroups, agree on sensible logic
o Which is always backed up by an adult comprehension of the facts

a. Headers injected by the News server can only be changed by changing
servers, & even then, they are still injected by the (new) News server

b. The PATH: header is only somewhat modifiable (& it's only additive)

c. Headers not injected by the News server are under our full control:
e.g., from your own headers:
From: Frank Slootweg <th...@ddress.is.invalid>
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.android
Subject: Re: iOS exclusive app
Date: 29 Nov 2020 12:08:49 GMT
Organization: NOYB
Message-ID: <rq06dg...@ID-201911.user.individual.net>
References: <rpmpgb$9il$1...@gioia.aioe.org>
X-stuff: (some NNTP servers seem to add their own X-stuff)

User-Agent: tin/1.6.2-20030910 ("Pabbay") (UNIX) (CYGWIN_NT-6.3-WOW/2.8.0(0.309/5/3) (i686)) Hamster/2.0.2.2

--
Adults always agree on facts and accept rational reasonable logic.

[Arlen Holder]

On 29 Nov 2020 11:20:43 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> Yes, but *now* (in this thread) your claim is conditional ("any line
> that isn't _injected_ by the news server"), while it *was* unconditional
> ("as can any of the headers" (note "any"). Your original unconditional
> claim was incorrect. Your current conditional claim is mostly correct.
> So - as I said - you/we can put this 'dispute' to rest.

Hi Frank Slootweg,

Since I care about adults on the adult OS newsgroups understanding what
we're talking about, we have to be _clear_ that I was responding to an
utter moronic Apple Type III apologist named Joerg Lorenz when I casually
used the word "any" because these Apple morons believe _every_ header!
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/sgzGVamjKU0/m/LK9yTmciAQAJ>

This is, verbatim, what I said, which you know, Frank, but others don't:
"Hi Joerg Lorenz,
What's impressive is that you are so low on the DK scale that you don't
even seem to know enough about NNTP protocol to realize that these
meaningless headers can be changed on a whim, as can the news server, as
can any of the headers, including the time and date."

Adults will note that this was a deprecation of the infantile assessment by
the always illogical Apple Type III apologists who believe _every_ header!

Given the infantile apologists were chattering about the easily changed
headers anyway, does anyone really think the apologists would have
understood my insulting words better had I included the minor caveats?

I was insulting the Type III apologists' lack of adult comprehensive skills

What's petrifying is not only that they _believe_ every header...
o But that they based their assessments on that incorrect belief system!

The _next_ related post was from Frank Slootweg, who accurately said:
o <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/sgzGVamjKU0/m/LK9yTmciAQAJ>

"That you say 'as can the news server' and 'as can any of the headers'
(note: any) shows that you do *not* (fully) know what you're talking about"

To which I responded by clarifying that I was scolding the moron apologists
o <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/sgzGVamjKU0/m/puHKs3kqAQAJ>
"You're not a childish Apple Apologists like Joerg Lorenz and BK@OnRamp
are, so I'll look at your objections with more than just the energy it
takes to swat away an annoying brainless fly (which is all the effort I
expended on the Apple Apologists who never have any intention to be
helpful).

My point to Frank was I didn't even need to be completely correct with the
infantile apologists because they wouldn't have comprehended facts anyway.

But I did clarify, in my response to Frank, exactly which headers I meant:
"Do you think we can't change our news servers at will?
Do you think we can't change the date line?
Do you think we can't change the newsreader line?
Do you think we can't change the subject line?
Do you think we can't change the MIME encoding line?
DO you think we can't change the Message-ID line?
DO you think we can't change the Newsgroup line?
Do you think we can't change the Content-Transfer-Encoding line?
Which of those lines do you want me to change in my next post?"

In summary, I apologize to Frank Slootweg because he was fully and
completely correct in challenging my statement of "any" in that we do not
have full control of "every" header.

However, in my defense, I clearly show that I was derisively responding to
the utter moronic child-like apologist Joerg Lorenz, where, clearly, he
(and his compatriots, Alan Baker, BK at onRamp, Jolly Roger, Lewis, et al.)
wouldn't have benefited had I imparted upon them the specific details.

Note there is ample proof of this fact, in fact, since I told Alan Baker
many times that my "NewsTap" in my header (at that time) didn't mean I used
NewsTap; and yet, post after post after post after post (much like Snit
did), the apologist thought he had finally (after all these decades) caught
me in a mis-statement of fact, or, even better, heaven forbid, a "lie".
o Why are apologists like Alan Baker so fantastically immune to basics skills an adult should have on the Internet?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/EiNl6hyMBDo>

Even _after_ proving the headers are spoofed (by spoofing them), Alan Baker
(much like all Type III and Type III apologists, e.g., Steve Scharf _still_
thinks Qualcomm royalties went down) still vociferously claimed he caught
me using NewsTap as my newsreader client.

Of the three types of apologists, it is a waste of effort to clarify the
"any" versus the "any one not injected by the newsreader" with Type III
apologists; only the Type I apologist (nospam) can comprehend such facts.
--
Note: All the adults on the adult OS newsgroup can comprehend these facts.
.

[Arlen Holder]

Hi Frank Slootweg,

We forgot the Xref!

Xref: doubletreewisp comp.sys.mac.advocacy:56939 misc.phone.mobile.iphone:82849 comp.sys.mac.system:85766

[Frank Slootweg]

Xref is generated by the server and only valid for / applicable to that
specific server. AFAIK, a server will just ignore any Xref supplied by a
client (or cause a post-failure).