I just belatedly realized why adults can't communicate with Jolly Roger & nospam & Alan Baker & Snit - because they're too far to the left on the Dunning-Kruger scale

[arlen holder]

This is important to the groups that the posters below post to.

I post a lot of facts.
Well verified. Well cited. Easily validated facts.

Facts.

Those facts are often challenged by this group of canonical naysayers:
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/mehGxIGcoa8/MoxCZ8XcAwAJ>

That naysaying of easily validated facts stretches a thread ad infinitum.
Simply because these posters deny that facts exist outside their spheres.

Why?
Why can't I communicate with these people?
o Are they so dumb as to be un communicative with adults?
o Are they just pulling out leg and toying with us?
Or, is it actually far _deeper_ than that?

I think - I just realized - belatedly - belatedly by years - why.
It will make _all_ the difference in how I respond to them in the future.

I just belatedly realized why sentient logical adults just can't
communicate with the likes of Jolly Roger & nospam & Alan Baker & Snit (et.
al).

It may simply be that they're the epitome of the left-side DK effect:
o I used to think it had to be that they were pulling our leg all the time,
o Or that, they were just incredibly (unfathomably) stupid.
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/18ARDsEOPzM/veU8FwAjBQAJ>

But I think, it seems, perhaps, the problem is actually far worse
o It may be that they are the epitome of the left-side DK effect

In which case, no sentient adult can _ever_ carry on a normal conversation
with them, if that conversation contains even the simplest of known facts.

Examples abound, where I'll just point to two very recent examples.
In these examples (as usual) it only takes 10 seconds to prove them wrong.

I don't mind people having strong opinions, mind you - opinions are fine.
But to repeatedly & steadfastly claim that facts are wrong - is strange.

Adults - at least intelligent adults - don't generally claim facts are wrong.
Especially when it only takes ten seconds to prove the facts are correct.

Why do people like Alan Baker, BK, Jolly Roger, nospam, do such odd things?
o I used to think it's just that they're unfathomably incredibly stupid, or,
o Perhaps they're just playing silly games for their own amusement.

I've _always_ wondered _why_ people like nospam & Jolly Roger do this.
I belatedly realized it's because they're _perfect_ left-side DK specimens!

Example 1:
o nospam *insists* that Apple did NOT add throttling software to the iPhone X;
o And yet, well-published facts easily show they did (long ago, in fact).
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/wbCbVX48E5M>

Example 2:
o Alan Baker insists a link to a Usenet post is not "proof" of fact;
o And yet, that Usenet post _contains_ links to the very statements from Apple!
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/oulJsYSmDDM/knn09aTWFQAJ>

Example 3:
o Jolly Roger insists that iOS has the import/export ICS file capability;
o And yet, anyone _instantly_ can see that it doesn't even come close.
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/OzUOmgJLmZs/MVz0tjHUFQAJ>

Example 4:
o Both Jolly Roger & nospam insist that a signature must be added outside of VPN.
o And yet, it's trivial to prove otherwise in seconds - with a single simple test.
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/oulJsYSmDDM/bOCAndO4FQAJ>

Example 5:
o Snit insists that his video shows iOS graphing wifi signal strength over time;
o And yet, anyone _instantly_ can see that he never looked at the abscissa.
<<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/PZuec56EWB0/qSXecrnZAQAJ>

The examples abound...
o The DK crew make statements as if they actually comprehend basic facts.
o And yet, they just don't.

It takes only ten seconds to prove each of these people dead wrong.
o Using just simple easily verified facts.
o All the time.

It boggles my mind that people can appear to be _that_ incredibly stupid.
It actually bothers me because I had more faith in adults than they deserve.

As most of you know, I've been studying Apple Apologists for years, but
only recently did I realize that it's not so much that they're incredibly
stupid, but that they don't _realize_ they're incredibly stupid.

They constantly make claims that are easily disproved in mere seconds.

It's not a problem that they both hold such strong convictions.
o The problem is that they claim all facts are lies
o Simply because _they_ can't comprehend even the simplest of facts

*That they don't realize they're _perfect_ left-side DK specimens!*
They _think_ they comprehend facts - and yet - they prove - they don't.

Every single time.

I used to think there were only two possibilities:
o Either they really are that incredibly unfathomably stupid, or,
o They're just pulling our leg (all the time).

But now, I just realized, they're picture-perfect left-side DK specimens!

NOTE: Most people don't comprehend what the DK effect entails.
The DK effect is a "skills self-assessment" effect.

In terms of nospam & Jolly Roger, those with the least skills tend to
overrate their skill set and to trust their judgment far more than more
rationale people would dream of doing.

While I've always said I'm only of average intelligence (if even that),
this belated realization of both Jolly Roger and nospam exhibit, explains
why they always appear to claim easily verified facts are "lies" or
"trolls" when those easily verified facts disagree with their religious
bias.

Here's a direct quote of what effect both Jolly Roger & nospam exhibit:
"the DunningĄVKruger effect is a cognitive bias in which people
of low ability have illusory superiority and mistakenly assess
their cognitive ability as greater than it is"
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect>

NOTE: Most of us are in the middle - and some even to the right; where
everyone has a cognitive bias when self-assessing skills. This cognitive
bias spans both sides, from self assessing our own skill set, to assessing
how much effort it takes others to gain our skill set. Those to the left
vastly overestimate both their skills and the effort it takes others to
gain their skills - whereas those to the right tend to underestimate their
skills and to underestimate the effort it takes to attain their skills.
Those in the middle are the most balanced in self assessment of skills.

In short, I've just realized that the problem with these people is not
o that they can't comprehend even the simplest of facts, nor is it
o that they are just constantly pulling our leg for amusement.
It's likely literally that they are the epitome of the left-side DK effect.

That is:
o They self assess themselves so highly, that facts are not needed.
o When challenged on facts, they simply deny the fact.

*They actually _believe_ their denials of basic facts - are correct.*
They're literally incapable of self-assessing themselves on that regard.

In summary, not only have I been dealing with them incorrectly all along
(in that I had assumed they possessed a 'normal' mind), but the entire
approach is quite different once I realize that they are, literally,
exactly what the Dunning-Kruger effects speaks about with the left-side
examples.

*This belated realization will affect how I treat them in the future.*

(I will no longer attempt to discuss basic facts with them - since -
it's clear - they don't appear to possess the cognitive skills to assess
even the simplest of basic easily validated & verified facts.)

[Mike Easter]

arlen holder wrote:

> Subject: I just belatedly realized why adults can't communicate with Jolly Roger & nospam & Alan Baker & Snit - because they're too far to the left on the Dunning-Kruger scale

o your subject is w a a a y y too long
o best format is very short subject like a title; longer content in
complete sentences all in the msg body, not subject

> Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android, comp.mobile.ipad, misc.phone.mobile.iphone, alt.comp.freeware, alt.os.linux, alt.comp.os.windows-10, comp.sys.mac

o you've crossposted to w a a a y y too many groups

> too far to the left on the Dunning-Kruger scale

o the content of your message is of 'interest' only to yourself, ergo
not useful posting material to ANY of those groups

> Dunning-Kruger scale

o The Dunning Kruger effect of the psychological phenomenon of
illusory superiority, for which they were granted a Nobel in 2000 has
been illustrated with a simple graphic, but there isn't a DK *scale*
(terminology) for the effect.

"Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own
Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments"

> I will no longer attempt to discuss basic facts with them

o good plan

A psycho-babble attack on your usenet adversaries is still just a lot of
useless and undesirable ad hominem jousting, no matter how you 'dress it
up', ergo...

o don't do it.

--
Mike Easter
to aol only

[Wolf K]

On 2019-01-16 11:33, arlen holder wrote:
[...]
> Or, is it actually far_deeper_ than that?
[...]

It's your use of "child" as an insult.

And your notion that insults will persuade people to agree with you.

Have frabjous day,

--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
People worry that computers will get too smart
and take over the world, but the real problem is
that they’re too stupid and they’ve already taken over
the world (Pedro Domingos)

[arlen holder]

On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 14:05:25 -0500, Wolf K wrote:

> It's your use of "child" as an insult.

Hi Wolf K,
As you know, I've often referred to you as a child, so that alone makes my
response to you a bit difficult - in that I'm going to explain my tactics -
which - is always a mistake since you will try to test me (as you've done
in the past so many times I can't count them).

Still - I stay true to my stratgegy and tactics nonetheless:
o Strategy: Learn from & add appreciably to the overall tribal knowledge
o Tactics: Deal with the trolls as if they were fifth-grade bullies.

Notice that I frontally confront the bullies - such as you are - Wolf K.
(And never think that I forget - although my tactics are ALWAYS to mirror
that of the poster I'm responding to - in order to coax them into behaving
like a sensible reasonable adult should).

Hence ... I agree with you fully Wolf. K.
I really do.

In fact, I'll highlight my agreement, and my chastity:
*I apologize for mixing Dunning-Kruger effects with the mind of a child.*

They're different.

While I have been pondering, for decades, what makes some Usenet posters
utterly immune to facts (e.g., Diesel, Snit, Colonel Edmund J. Burke, John
Doe, Nomen Nomescu, Shadow, Good Guy, Mr. Man-wai Chang, David B., %,
Anonymous, Cybe R Wizard, etc. - the list is huge so allow me to stop)...

I used to think most this immunity to fact was due to one of two reasons:
o They're either just toying with us (for their own childish amusement), or
o They're really _that_ unfathomably stupid.

And I pretty much tested out my premises over the decades, for example:
o Experiments proving [certain] Usenet groups are filled to the brim with children
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/b0DrfrsRh24/ODQneWFEBAAJ>

Notice ... up until now, I've been assuming poster who can't handle fact
o Are either adults with the child of a fifth grader, or
o Adults who are unfathomably stupid.

The problem with that second item is that the stupidity is unfathomable.
As unfathomable as the thought process of the "lemon-juice bankrobber".

Obviously the first item is easy to understand, where my "tactic" to deal
with those who deny the most basic of adult discussions is to make it "less
fun" (which you, yourself, have been the target of - but so has Rene
Lamontagne, Frank Slootweg, Dan Purgert, Char Jackson, etc.).

To summarize, for the "childish" people who get their enjoyment out of
childish toying with Usenet posters, I simply attempt to "make it less fun"
for them.

Here's an example, from today, but such examples of childishness abound:
o What is the factual truth about PRIVACY differences or similarities between the Android & iOS mobile phone ecosystems?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/MiZixhidmOs/4p_ahPbSFQAJ>
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/MiZixhidmOs/Zh3cjawBFgAJ>

Some, of course, like Char Jackson and you, Wolf K, will utterly _insist_
on their God-given right to troll - but I have noticed that the incidence
of people like you insisting on your God-given right to troll goes down the
less fun I make it for you (in that I generally point out that I don't have
to prove you act like a child - because you do that for me by what you
post).

I simply point it out, for example, in this random case:
o Why does X constantly prove that all he can do, is play his silly fifth-grade games?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/irbuhYwQz9g/rVcddlu0AgAJ>

Having explained that the mind of a child is easily understood, what has
_always_ eluded me was the mind of the remaining posters who appear to
never comprehend simple basic facts.

For example:
o Would you concur that these are "positive counterfactuals"?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/MwGH8XcCRtQ/oenUeCJwAwAJ>

These posters are fewer than the children type I listed above.
Most of these posters have an almost "religious" like zeal.
o Often they deny facts that don't fit into their religious belief system
o Often, they promulgate completely false propositions

Two simple examples are these (where these examples abound):
o Why do the [some people] call all facts they don't like, trolls?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/FZVR227jn4g/tq_vJhGpAAAJ>

o What is wrong with the Apologists that they deny even what Apple admitted?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/fyL1cQUVCp0/2s_5ulpSBgAJ>

Up until today, I actually _thought_ these people were simply either
o Toying with us (in which case, facts should make it "less fun"), or
o Incredibly stupid (in which case, facts should have an impact).

However, the realization, today, that they're actually suffering from
Dunning-Kruger effects of the left side (note, everyone falls asunder to
the DK effect - where the left side is the canonical "lemon juice bank
robber" example) means that I must handle these DK folks differently.

How do you handle someone with left-side DK differently?
o You can't assume they're "toying" with us (they're actually serious)
o You can't just assume they're "stupid" either (they are - but it's worse)

What you have to do is realize they're fundamentally DIFFERENT.
o They actually _believe_ facts are wrong - and, sadly, far worse,
o No amount of facts will ever change them from that belief system.

I used to say that these people believe in their intuition more than they
believe in evidence to the contrary - which is - in a way - pretty much the
case - but it's - sadly - far worse than that - in that - they can't be
fixed.

That is, no amount of fact will change their minds.
Ever.

It's not that they're toying with us & it's not (only) that they're stupid.

They're not actually capable of processing facts.
Just as the "lemon juice bank robber" wasn't capable of processing them.

*The main point is that I've been trying to _reason_ with these people!*
o That's why many threads are 10x longer than they need to be.

But I've only today realized - they can not be reasoned with!
o It's NOT they're toying with us (they actually _believe_ what they say!)
o It's not even that they're stupid (yes, they are, but it's far worse!)

Said in a slightly humorous vein...
o No amount of fact will change that they think all facts are wrong.
o They're incapable of processing facts because they think they can.

By way of apology, I should have been more tuned to their problems.
o They're perhaps NOT children, and,
o They're certainly stupid - but their stupidity can't possibly be fixed

That is, facts will _never_ work.
That! Was my epiphany.

And That. Changes how I respond in the future.
(HINT: Threads will be far shorter as a result - and that's a good thing.)

[Mike Easter]

Jolly Roger wrote:
> Wolf K wrote:
>>
>> Have frabjous day,
>
> Thanks for reminding me it's been way too long since I've watched "Bad
> Words". ; )
>
Well... Carroll's Jabberwocky came a long time before the Bad Words
movie popularized it.

--
Mike Easter

[arlen holder]

On 16 Jan 2019 19:47:16 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:

_THIS IS A RESPONSE TO JOLLY ROGER IN THE THREAD BELOW_
(which I copy here as an instructive style of the new response system).
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/oulJsYSmDDM/Hkza_FM8CAAJ>

Hi Jolly Roger,

We're going to have far shorter discussions, moving forward.
(And that's a good thing for everyone, including for me.)

I always strive to understand the person whom I'm dealing with.
But your actions have always defied my studied comprehension.

The fact is that I used to think that you could only have been either:
o Just toying with us by incessantly fabricating imaginary functionality
o Or, that you were unfathomably stupid in not comprehending facts.

But now I realize, sadly, it's likely to be far worse than that.

Far worse indeed.
o Sure, you prove you're incredibly stupid - but it's far worse than that;
o You literally _believe_ that what you just proposed will actually work.

Just like the lemon juice robber believed it would work for him.
o No amount of actual fact (no matter how basic) will sway you;
o So I will no longer try to convince you using facts.

Fact is...
o I've wasted my time (& everyone's time) laboriously providing facts:
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/MwtyT7BdxF4>

[Wolf K]

On 2019-01-16 14:45, arlen holder wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 14:05:25 -0500, Wolf K wrote:
>
>> It's your use of "child" as an insult.
> Hi Wolf K,
> As you know, I've often referred to you as a child, so that alone makes my
> response to you a bit difficult - in that I'm going to explain my tactics -
> which - is always a mistake since you will try to test me (as you've done
> in the past so many times I can't count them).

[...]

It's difficult only because you have a problem imagining how other
people respond to your posts. You've explained your tactics ad nauseam.
Repetition doesn't improve the explanation.

Have a frabjous day,

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 16:33:54 -0000 (UTC)
arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:

> "the Dunning_VKruger effect is a cognitive bias in which people

> of low ability have illusory superiority and mistakenly assess
> their cognitive ability as greater than it is"
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect>

Its cold and boring out today, so...

Wow, Dunning/Kruger, eh? let's see about how you fare in that regard,
Harlow Olden:

Message-ID: <q1iiqe$n3t$1...@news.mixmin.net>:
arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:
"Since I'm, by my own definition, one of the best types of Usenet
posters..."

Message-ID: <q1a4hr$k5h$1...@news.mixmin.net>
arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:
"For sure, I'll figure it out. Of that there is no doubt."

Message-ID: <poijiq$81e$1...@news.mixmin.net>
arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:
"I clearly provided added value (since we proved that _nobody_ who
posted knew the tricks that I provided, particularly when dealing with
the persnickety iOS devices)."

Message-ID: <poai6u$4q1$1...@news.mixmin.net>
arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:
"I'm extremely familiar with freeware"

A small side note. arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> KEEPS ON WRITING
and JUST CAN'T STOP:
----------
"Shred of decency"
"Jesus"
"Heaven's sake" (THAT'S where sake comes from?)
For Christ's sake" (Didn't know he drank sake)
"cowardly bully"
"Adults" "Adults" "Adults" "Adults" "Adults" "Adults" ! ! !
"...monster in the closet..."
"...isnt' my first rodeo"
"...shit on the table..." (one assumes this is common fare for him)
----------

OK, back to it then...:

Message-ID: <po841r$kaa$1...@news.mixmin.net>
arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:
"I comprehend _everything_..."

Message-ID: <po3ivh$4ds$1...@news.mixmin.net>
arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:
"What I'm trying to accomplish is well beyond your capabilities..."

Message-ID: <po0usd$7o2$1...@news.mixmin.net>
arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:
"Since I already proved that _nobody_ who posted actually _understood_
this brilliant method, I simply point the users to the tutorial I
wrote, which explains that which all the naysayers clearly didn't
comprehend."

Message-ID: <po0usd$7o2$1...@news.mixmin.net>
arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:
"I learned nothing since nobody said anything I didn't already know
years ago..."

Message-ID: <po0usd$7o2$1...@news.mixmin.net>
arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:
"you're all morons"

Message-ID: <po0tp9$5tc$1...@news.mixmin.net>
arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:
"I'm one of the *rare* people..."

essage-ID: <po0tp9$5tc$1...@news.mixmin.net>
arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:
"So far, nobody knows more than I do."

Message-ID: <pnuv0p$2cf$1...@news.mixmin.net>
arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:
"Did _anyone_ comprehend the method I proposed?
Or is everyone like a brick, unable to comprehend what I said?"

Message-ID: <pnuuih$17u$1...@news.mixmin.net>
arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:
"the brilliance of this system is obvious to me"

Message-ID: <pnuuih$17u$1...@news.mixmin.net>
arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:
"I easily tower over everyone"

Message-ID: <pnuuih$17u$1...@news.mixmin.net>
arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:
"I understood EVERYTHING everyone said"

Message-ID: <pnuuih$17u$1...@news.mixmin.net>
arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:
"they won't be able to comprehend what I said..."

Message-ID: <pnutel$v60$1...@news.mixmin.net>
arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:
"the fact is that I know something you don't know. Nobody knows it."

Message-ID: <pnutel$v60$1...@news.mixmin.net>
arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:
"There's *nothing* you've said (or anyone else in this thread) that I
didn't know years ago."

Message-ID: <pnutel$v60$1...@news.mixmin.net>
arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:
"nobody in this entire thread said anything that I didn't already
know years ago"

Message-ID: <pnutel$v60$1...@news.mixmin.net>
arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:
"I understand EVERYTHING"

"the Dunning_VKruger effect is a cognitive bias in which people

of low ability have illusory superiority and mistakenly assess
their cognitive ability as greater than it is"

<sigh> I just can't go on. Its too painful to see the Dunning/Kruger
effect at work /so/ clearly. It taints all you say, "Arlen."

It surely seems as if you are truly a voluble asshat of Usenet.

Cybe R. Wizard -still waiting for that list of 10,000 tutorials, Harlen
--
What is a petard and how did Arlen Holder get hoist on his own?

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"[
Charles Darwin

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 19:45:54 -0000 (UTC)
arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:

> Are either adults with the child of a fifth grader...

Usually fifth graders don't have children. Perhaps that is not the
case within your family.

Cybe R. Wizard
--
Don't be buffaloed by experts and elites. Experts often possess more
data than judgment. Elites can become so inbred that they produce
hemophiliacs who bleed to death as soon as they are nicked by the real
world.
Colin Powell

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 16:33:54 -0000 (UTC)
arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:

> they don't appear to possess the cognitive skills to assess
> even the simplest of basic easily validated & verified facts.)

How about the simple and easily verified facts I posted in:
Message-ID: <20190116153455.598ac1aa@WizardsTower>
Subject: [The current way too long one]

The quotes I included each and all are verify-ably quotes FROM YOUR
OWN POSTS and all of which demonstrate the Dunning/Kruger effect as
exemplified by YOUR OWN over-estimation of YOUR OWN abilities and
denial of the abilities and sensibilities of others with whom you
disagree.

Why don't you address that and those (honestly, if such a thing is
possible for you), consider (again, honestly) that /you/ demonstrate the
Dunning/Kruger effect to best ... effect, and stop trying (poorly) to
insult others who have differing opinions or attitudes?

And, on another (but hugely related) note, when you constantly kowtow to
those smarter than you (Paul, Mike Easter, et al. ad infinitum) with you
weaselly worded, obsequious, fawning, and insincerely toadying
compliments it makes you look like a pathetic groveling little bitch.

Cybe R. Wizard -thinks that maybe looks /are/ everything in this case
--
Far more crucial than what we know or do not know is what we do not
want to know.
Eric Hoffer

[Jasen Betts]

On 2019-01-16, arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:

> We're going to have far shorter discussions, moving forward.

If the goal is shorer discussions you're wasting words.
Other then length what does "moving forward" add to the sentence?

--
When I tried casting out nines I made a hash of it.

[William Unruh]

On 2019-01-17, Jasen Betts <ja...@xnet.co.nz> wrote:
> On 2019-01-16, arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:
>
>> We're going to have far shorter discussions, moving forward.
>
> If the goal is shorer discussions you're wasting words.
> Other then length what does "moving forward" add to the sentence?

It gives the lie to the rest of the sentence.

>

[Cybe R. Wizard]

It is also nonsensical if we are to believe that, "moving forward,"
refers to doing so in time since there currently is no other way to
move in that particular partial medium.

Cybe R. Wizard
--
We are all traveling forward in time at the rate of one second per
second.

[Dan Purgert]

(stripped out everyone else, I think we're all a.o.l people here anyway)

There has to be a defined term for this somewhere, proving there's a
logical fallacy in arlen's statement.

--
|_|O|_| Registered Linux user #585947
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5 4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 11:45:06 -0000 (UTC)
Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net> wrote:

> William Unruh wrote:
> > On 2019-01-17, Jasen Betts <ja...@xnet.co.nz> wrote:
> >> On 2019-01-16, arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> We're going to have far shorter discussions, moving forward.
> >>
> >> If the goal is shorer discussions you're wasting words.
> >> Other then length what does "moving forward" add to the sentence?
> >
> > It gives the lie to the rest of the sentence.
>
> (stripped out everyone else, I think we're all a.o.l people here
> anyway)
>
> There has to be a defined term for this somewhere, proving there's a
> logical fallacy in arlen's statement.
>

"Logically, grammatically, and factually incorrect?"

Cybe R. Wizard
--
My other computer is a HOLMES IV

[Dan Purgert]

Well, yeah, but I mean something like "begging the question" or
something. Although 'ad hominem' is definitely a favorite of his.

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 13:47:16 -0000 (UTC)

Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net> wrote:

> Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
> > On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 11:45:06 -0000 (UTC)
> > Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net> wrote:
> >
> >> William Unruh wrote:
> >> > On 2019-01-17, Jasen Betts <ja...@xnet.co.nz> wrote:
> >> >> On 2019-01-16, arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> We're going to have far shorter discussions, moving
> >> >>> forward.
> >> >>
> >> >> If the goal is shorer discussions you're wasting words.
> >> >> Other then length what does "moving forward" add to the
> >> >> sentence?
> >> >
> >> > It gives the lie to the rest of the sentence.
> >>
> >> (stripped out everyone else, I think we're all a.o.l people here
> >> anyway)
> >>
> >> There has to be a defined term for this somewhere, proving there's
> >> a logical fallacy in arlen's statement.
> >>
> > "Logically, grammatically, and factually incorrect?"
>
> Well, yeah, but I mean something like "begging the question" or
> something. Although 'ad hominem' is definitely a favorite of his.

OK, then, where's my list...

Often he's guilty of a false dichotomy, or refusing to acknowledge
alternate views. ...may apply.

Regularly he's guilty of a repetition fallacy, but not, I think, here.

Often he's guilty of a strawman argument by trying to move off-point.
...maybe this applies.

Of course, his first reply to Jolly Rodger was an ad hominem wherein he
attacked the person, not the argument.

He tried dismissing Jolly's argument with no proof, thereby appealing
to the stone.

Assuming his premise to be automatically correct, he is almost always
begging the question.

He snips facts that don't support his argument and that's cherry
picking.

When he offers no supporting evidence he is using circular logic.

He so wants his assertions to be true but that doesn't mean they are.
That's known as a divine fallacy.

DANG, it looks like he uses almost the entire list of fallacious
arguments in his posts.

Cybe R. Wizard -thinks Ben was describing Arler Holden here:
--
"Your argument is sound. Nothing but sound."
Ben (Jammin') Franklin

[Dan Purgert]

Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 13:47:16 -0000 (UTC)
> Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net> wrote:
>> > "Logically, grammatically, and factually incorrect?"
>>
>> Well, yeah, but I mean something like "begging the question" or
>> something. Although 'ad hominem' is definitely a favorite of his.
>

> [...]

> DANG, it looks like he uses almost the entire list of fallacious
> arguments in his posts.

Now that was a good laugh, Cybe. I'm eagerly anticipating his "now Cybe
R. Wizard, you are a child. You don't know why you are a child Cybe R.
Wizard, so I will tell you..."

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 14:58:04 -0000 (UTC)

Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net> wrote:

> Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
> > On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 13:47:16 -0000 (UTC)
> > Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net> wrote:
> >> > "Logically, grammatically, and factually incorrect?"
> >>
> >> Well, yeah, but I mean something like "begging the question" or
> >> something. Although 'ad hominem' is definitely a favorite of
> >> his.
> >
> > [...]
> > DANG, it looks like he uses almost the entire list of fallacious
> > arguments in his posts.
>
> Now that was a good laugh, Cybe. I'm eagerly anticipating his "now
> Cybe R. Wizard, you are a child. You don't know why you are a child
> Cybe R. Wizard, so I will tell you..."

+1

I can hardly wait. ...for heaven's (or Jesus') sake! I like sake!

Cybe R. Wizard -feeling younger already
--
"Be vewy vewy quiet. I'm assimiwating a wace."
Fudd of Borg

[Diesel]

"Cybe R. Wizard" <cybe_r...@WizardsTower.invalid>
news:20190117012107.1f46b2e6@WizardsTower Thu, 17 Jan 2019 07:21:07

GMT in alt.comp.freeware, wrote:

> On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 06:59:27 -0000 (UTC)
> William Unruh <un...@invalid.ca> wrote:
>
>> On 2019-01-17, Jasen Betts <ja...@xnet.co.nz> wrote:
>> > On 2019-01-16, arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> We're going to have far shorter discussions, moving forward.
>> >
>> > If the goal is shorer discussions you're wasting words.
>> > Other then length what does "moving forward" add to the
>> > sentence?
>>
>> It gives the lie to the rest of the sentence.
>>
> It is also nonsensical if we are to believe that, "moving
> forward," refers to doing so in time since there currently is no
> other way to move in that particular partial medium.
>
> Cybe R. Wizard

One must also consider the fact Arlen hasn't solved their mapping a
local drive letter to Android internal/external memory, either. Far
too adult for them to apologize and get the help they wanted, for
free. Instead, they'd rather continue with petty insults and name
calling and proceed to make a complete arse of themselves as they
tried and failed, numerous times, to mount a drive letter for their
android device. That's some uber smart thinking on their part,
wouldn't you agree? :)


--
Visit https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php (10/10 WOT)
MID: <XnsA9B7A8...@DKrpqvfHsgf33.8qcO1vJpVCMaP>
http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=154631875900

4) Good guys are always good looking.

[Diesel]

arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> news:q1o1lh$lrs$1...@news.mixmin.net

Wed, 16 Jan 2019 19:45:54 GMT in alt.comp.freeware, wrote:

> While I have been pondering, for decades, what makes some Usenet
> posters utterly immune to facts (e.g., Diesel, Snit, Colonel
> Edmund J. Burke, John Doe, Nomen Nomescu, Shadow, Good Guy, Mr.
> Man-wai Chang, David B., %, Anonymous, Cybe R Wizard, etc. - the
> list is huge so allow me to stop)...

I've been on usenet for decades, and don't remember interacting with
you until just the past year or so.

> I used to think most this immunity to fact was due to one of two
> reasons: o They're either just toying with us (for their own
> childish amusement), or o They're really _that_ unfathomably
> stupid.

I can't speak for others, but, I'm far from stupid, Arlen. I elected
not to help you for a very specific reason; and I made that perfectly
clear to you. You were incapable of being a responsible adult and
issuing an apology. Due to that, and only that, I opted not to
provide you any specific details concerning sharing your Android
device internal/external memory over your network via a drive letter
mount. I've also noticed, you have so far, failed to be able do that
on your own. Evidently, you aren't anywhere near as smart as you
thought you were.

> And I pretty much tested out my premises over the decades, for
> example: o Experiments proving [certain] Usenet groups are filled
> to the brim with children
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/b0DrfrsR
> h24/ODQneWFEBAAJ>

You act far more like a child than any of the people you listed, and
that's saying quite a bit considering you listed Anoncoward and David
Brooks.

> Obviously the first item is easy to understand, where my "tactic"
> to deal with those who deny the most basic of adult discussions is
> to make it "less fun" (which you, yourself, have been the target
> of - but so has Rene Lamontagne, Frank Slootweg, Dan Purgert, Char
> Jackson, etc.).

Your tactic is what causes others to pause before assisting you, if
anyone does so in the first place. I don't know who told you that
childish insults would get you far with people, but, they mislead
you.

> To summarize, for the "childish" people who get their enjoyment
> out of childish toying with Usenet posters, I simply attempt to
> "make it less fun" for them.

I find you highly amusing though, Arlen. Simply because you can't
figure out how to do very basic things that you come here and ask for
help with. You then proceed to belittle others, but, never manage to
get what you want done in the process. That, is highly entertaining
and it costs me nothing.

> That is, no amount of fact will change their minds.
> Ever.

Fact. I have shared android access across my network as a drive
letter for the internal memory and my external memory. You do not.
It's been months now, and you still haven't figured out how to do it.

Yes, I still find it highly amusing. I also can't help but notice
your newbie programming Android efforts are a dismal failure too. Too
funny. Carry on with your insults, it's clear they're not getting you
the help you want with your projects.

--
Visit https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php (10/10 WOT)
MID: <XnsA9B7A8...@DKrpqvfHsgf33.8qcO1vJpVCMaP>
http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=154631875900

We've all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million
typewriters will eventually reproduce the works of Shakespeare.
Now, thanks to the Internet, we know this is not true.

[Dan Purgert]

Jolly Roger wrote:
> [ ... ]
> He pulls the same shit on the iOS and macOS newsgroups for hours upon
> hours daily, and fails miserably to get the simplest things done for
> months there as well - all while insulting everyone there and claiming
> he's smarter than everyone on the planet. He shows what an idiot he is
> every time he opens his big mouth. It's really pathetic to watch him go
> down in flames over and over again, all while screaming "FAKE NEWS" when
> anyone points out his stupidity.
>

On the upside, his crossposting to the world has, on occasion, let me
converse with knowledgeable people I wouldn't have otherwise had run
into

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 00:58:36 -0000 (UTC)
Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net> wrote:

> On the upside, his crossposting to the world has, on occasion, let me
> converse with knowledgeable people I wouldn't have otherwise had run
> into

Just today I was pondering the possible re-emergence of Usenet since
most of the big social media sites are either failing or opting out.

BRING BACK USENET!

Cybe R. Wizard -wants this SO BADLY
--
Usenet:
A thick skin is required but thin lips are discouraged.
Cybe R. Wizard

[arlen holder]

On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 23:14:44 -0000 (UTC), Diesel wrote:

> I can't speak for others, but, I'm far from stupid, Arlen.

Hi Diesel (et al.),

*The Dunning-Kruger effect affects everyone with skills.*
o You. Me. Everybody.

In essence:
o Those with the least skills, overestimate the most, while
o Those with the most skills, tend to underestimate theirs,
o With those with average skills tending to estimate best.

I'm only going to respond to you, Diesel, and not to the drivel who may
follow in your wake (e.g., Cybe R. Wizard, Dan Purgert, Jolly Roger, Tim
Streater, Alan Browne, Alan Baker, nospam, haemactylus, Char Jackson, Rene
Lamontagne, et al.), simply because the response to any one of you is the
same as the response to all.

Having said that, your claim that you're "not stupid" is instructive
because all of you prove the point I was trying to make, which is:
o *I used to think people like you on Usenet were either incredibly stupid,*
o *Or, that you were simply pulling our legs by denying basic obvious fact*
...
o *But now, I realize it's actually worse than that - far worse - in fact.*
o You're incapable of _comprehending_ that you're incapable of comprehending.

That is...
o *You're all _convinced_ that the lemon juice _actually_ worked!*
o *No amount of fact will disabuse you of your imaginary belief system.*

This is not meant as an insult; it's meant to underscore why I will no
longer attempt to deal with the likes of you using cold hard facts.

You're not capable of _comprehending_ even the _simplest_ of facts.
o Simply because you actually _think_ you do comprehend them!

Do you understand the conundrum Diesel?

I often said that people like you were stellar at being "immune to facts";
but that's because I had thought the problem was simply that of your
o Ignorance, or,
o Amusement.

Given that, my approach to responding to the likes of you was tactical:
o If you were simply ignorant - I supplied facts to back up everything;
o When you pulled our leg - I make it "less fun" for you.

That is, I followed the strategy of "confronting the Usenet bullies",
by using the standard tactic of standing up to you cowardly bullies.
o Bearing in mind the old adage of dropping to your level...

I was hoping for one of two effects depending on the reason you were immune
to basic facts...
1. If you were simply ignorant, I supplied you with facts.
And then... when you remained unfathomably incomprehensive,
2. I simply assumed you were toying with us.

My tactics are well known and quite obvious:
o When you were incomprehensive - I supplied you with copious facts.
o When you remained incomprehensive - I belittled you to make it "less fun"
for you to play your silly games.

But that was the wrong approach!
o Thats! My epiphany.

The problem, I only belatedly realized, is that neither approach will
work for the likes of you, Diesel, Char Jackson, Rene Lamontagne,
Wolf K., Alan Baker, Tim Streater, nospam, Jolly Roger, BKatOnRamp,
(and so many others that I tire even naming your entire bunch).

In the case of presenting facts to you (plural), Diesel:
o You're all literally _incapable_ of comprehending facts
o Due to a cognitive bias where you actually _think_ you can!

*That you are the epitome of the left-side DK effect - is my epiphany!*
o Facts will never work with the likes of you.
o Never.

In the case of confronting your bullying tactics, Diesel,
o It likely still works, to a degree, to make it "less fun" for you,
o However, you folks still insist on your God Given Right to Troll.

Hence, as noted many times, I eventually give up as you win when you
succeed in dropping me down to your level.

As you do now ... where you never add even a single iota of
on-topic value to the thread conversation.

> I elected not to help you for a very specific reason; and I made
> that perfectly clear to you.

Hehhehheh... Diesel,

You (the plural "you", which includes the aforementioned trolls)
literally delude yourself, just as the lemon-juice bank robber did.

More to the point, _all_ of you Usenet wastes delude yourselves.
o For example, remember this "Snit" video?
<https://youtu.be/7QaABa6DFIo>
o To this day, Snit still _believes_ he showed WiFi signal strength on iOS
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/PZuec56EWB0/qSXecrnZAQAJ>

Even after _hundreds_ of posts - you _still_ can't comprehend basic fact.

You all are utterly incapable of ever comprehending even simple facts!
o But it's not (only) that you (all) prove to be incredibly stupid
o What I learned is that you are supremely incapable of comprehending facts

Each one of you, including you, _proves_ you don't even comprehend the
problem set, for Christs' sake, Diesel - let alone offer a solution.

In fact, in reference to what you're alluding to, I accidentally left out a
key step which I repeatedly _challenged_ you on when you said you could
perform the task - where absolutely _none_ of you drivel knew what I was
talking about.

Proof like that abounds that
o You _think_ you're of at least average intelligence - but you're not
o Which is OK - it just means you're stupid - but it's worse than that.

*Your entire belief system is comprised of _imaginary_ content!*
o Your belief system is, therefore, entirely _immune_ to fact!
o Hence, I have been wasting my time providing well cited facts!

Very few people can answer my questions.. Very very few.
Paul. David Empson. Mike Easter, Marek (bless his soul) ...
(the list of purposefully helpful intelligent people is rather short).

Certainly the likes of you, Diesel, will _never_ be able to.
o People like you never _intend_ to add to the tribal knowledge
o People like you _can't_ add to the tribal knowledge.

Sadly, you don't even realize why you shouldn't even try.
o It's not what I thought, which is that you're all immune to fact;
o Nor, is it that Usenet is your daily fact-free amusement.

No. Sadly.
The problem is worse. Far worse.

You're all the epitome of the left-side of the Dunning-Kruger effect:
o You all literally actually _believe_ that the lemon juice trick works!

What that means is my epiphany - which is - there is ZERO response
to you that will _ever_ get the likes of you to comprehend fact.

The _reason_ you can't comprehend facts isn't so much that you're all
incredibly stupid (you are, but that's not the reason, since all these
facts are trivial even for people of low IQ as you all must be).

No.

*The reason you can't comprehend facts, is that you _think_ you can.*
Thats! My epiphany.

> You were incapable of being a responsible adult and
> issuing an apology.

Hehhehheh... An apology Diesel?

First off, ask Cybe R. Wizard about apologies.
Or even Mike Easter (who probably doesn't remember mine).

I have absolutely no problem apologizing when I make factual mistakes.
None.

A fact, to me, is merely a "thing".
It's not "emotional" like it is to people like you on the DK left side.

To you (plural you in all cases here), a "fact" is something to "deny".
Just _look_ at how many times the likes of nospam outright denies fact.

Do you _really_ want me to include cite after cite after cite after cite?

I've been studying people like you for decades because, as you know, I
worked for decades in the Silicon Valley, with truly intelligent people,
after having gone to the best schools in this country, with trully
intelligent people, after having grown up in some of the most expensive
locations in the country, again, populated by truly intelligent people.

Compared to them, I'm of average intelligence, if even that.
I've never said otherwise.

But people like you, Diesel, are so far below those people I just mentioned
(who actually _are_ intelligent), that it still boggles my mind how
fantastically incomprehensive people like you are.

You're immune to facts.
o I used to _try_ to supply people like you with copious but simple facts;
o And then I would be shocked that you didn't comprehend simple facts.

But my epiphany is that you are the epitome of the left-side DK effect.
o You can't comprehend facts but you actually think you can.
o Hence, there is no human way to get through to you.

It's just impossible.

As just one example, _look_ at these posts yesterday from Alan Baker:
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/oulJsYSmDDM/16o7X-g7CAAJ>
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/oulJsYSmDDM/OZbhPbg8CAAJ>

Can you believe what Alan Baker wrote?
o He's the epitome of the left-side Dunning-Kruger cognitive bias effect!
o *He doesn't comprehend that he can't comprehend!*

Do you see that is my epiphany?
o The key is that _no amount of fact_ will ever help the likes of you comprehend.

People like you, Diesel, and people like you abound, are incapable of
comprehending even the _simplest_ of the simplest of the simplest of facts.

That means I've been wasting my time providing facst you.
o It's like me trying to tell you not only that the lemon-juice trick doens't work,
o But I've been going to the trouble to explain the chemistry of why.

I was doomed to fail, Diesel.
Doomed.

*All of you, in essence, believe that the lemon-juice trick _still_ works!*

> Due to that, and only that, I opted not to
> provide you any specific details concerning sharing your Android
> device internal/external memory over your network via a drive letter
> mount.

Hehhehheh ... Hi Diesel,

First off, I will be blunt ... you _never_ knew _anything_ whatsoever.

I need to say that clearly - not for you - as you won't believe it.
But for the others to comprehend that you know absolutely nothing.

Having said that, you proved time and again that you couldn't even tell us
the single *critical* step I had missed in outlining the tutorial for how
to access the _entire_ device system contents. But don't feel badly.
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.comp.freeware/K0NZ0nb1pWw/c7QERMymCQAJ>

Every single one of the people on the affected newsgroup didn't know.
Not Paul. Not Mike Easter. Not you. Not Nospam. Not Rene. Not Char.
o Simultaneously slide Windows Linux iOS Android files back and forth over USB at 7GB per minute speeds using 100% native devices (no proprietary software needed)
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.comp.freeware/K0NZ0nb1pWw/OBpoi3i8CAAJ>

Nobody knew.
And that's OK.

HINT: To this very day, 99.9% of you _still_ don't know how to do it.
(Even though I explained it all in gory detail - including the key trick.)

NOTE: The problem is almost never Android or Windows or Linux; it's iOS:
o How to easily archive your iOS device and/or how to use your iOS device as a free USB stick (read & write)?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/5hE4byjF930/NLdxBd8NCwAJ>

But _you_, Diesel, you said it was trivial and that it was something you
knew for a long time - which is ok - that's fine - but you only _beleived_
you knew ... when you proved - beyond a shadow of a doubt that you didn't.

Don't feel too badly.
Nobody knew.

That's why it's a big deal that I found it out (on the net).
(I didn't come up with it either - I just put the pieces together.)

I didn't know either - until I found it out about a year or two ago.

The funny thing is that you "claimed" to know - but you didn't, and yet,
I had _posted_ it *years* ago - which is how I had to find it to remember
it because I had _forgotten_ that critical step, which isn't needed if you
move files to VLC but it is needed to write to iOS protected storage.

> I've also noticed, you have so far, failed to be able do that
> on your own.

Hi Diesel,
Hehhehheh... I _love_ when you prove my point!

You don't even _realize_ that I _always_ could "mount" any Android file
system onto Windows as a "drive letter" (using a variety of WiFi and USB
methods).

Always.

I was mainly asking to _communicate_ that skill to others here.
And to seek _improvements_ to the process.

Often, people like Paul or Mike Easter will suggest valuable improvements.
In this case, I don't think they did - so I learned nothing - but you
_should_ have learned how to do what I've been doing for years.

In fact, I'm on record, as I recall, stating that _only_ Frank Slootweg (of
all people, actually), _understood_ even the _problem set_ for Christs'
sake.

How long was that thread, Diesel?
Maybe 100 posts? 200? I don't recall (there were a few threads).

And yet, out of, oh, say 25 distinct posters, only TWO (Frank & I)
understood the problem set (where Mike Easter & Paul understood the
Windows/Linux side also).

Do you see I'm swimming in a sea of fools, Diesel?
You, and the other fools _think_ you comprehend.

And yet, to this day, _only_ Frank Slootweg comprehended the problem set.

BTW, as an aside, I'm only explaining the truth - which is that few people
_cared_ to comprehend the problem set - or - they didn't have to deal with
both Android & iOS along with Windows & Linux (which is fine).

But my point is that Frank & I advanced our overall tribal knowledge.

The reason we can advance our combined tribal knowledge is that we
comprehend that we don't know everything.

You don't comprehend that yet, Diesel.
Neither do the likes of you in the peanut gallery.

> Evidently, you aren't anywhere near as smart as you
> thought you were.

First off, many times I have been known to be on record for saying that I'm
only of average intelligence, if that. (I studied at the graduate level for
almost a decade and worked in the Silicon Valley for decades with truly
intelligent people - who are whom I compare myself with when I say they are
far more intelligent than I am - of that I have no doubt).

But you don't comprehend what I just said, Diesel.
You just don't.

What you think is me claiming I'm smart is me exasperatingly explaining
that you (and those like you) are frustrating to me, because (I thought),
your lack of ability to comprehend even the simplest of fact was due to
o Either you incessantly pull our leg (for your own Usenet amusement?),
o Or, that you really are that unfathomably incredibly stupid.

It turns out that the actual reason is worse ... far worse (sadly).
o I've been approaching working with you the wrong way all along

No amount of facts about lemon-juice chemistry will sway you.
o You literally believe that the "lemon-juice" trick _still_ works!

*The epiphany is that you (pl) are the epitome of the left-side DK effect!*

[arlen holder]

On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 23:14:44 -0000 (UTC), Diesel wrote:

> they tried and failed, numerous times, to mount a drive letter
> for their android device.

Hehhehheh...

THANK YOU Diesel for perfectly proving my very point!
o I don't have to prove you lack even the most basic of comprehension
o I only need to refer to your own words (which prove the point for me).

*Your post is a _perfect_ example for the left-side DK cognitive bias!*
o It's not that you are pulling our leg (you actually _believe_ what you write!)
o And, it's not that you're unfathomably stupid (you are - but it's worse, sadly)
... the sad fact is ...
o We _always_ had this capability - we were simply trying to improve it!

That! You can't possibly comprehend.
o We _always_ had drive-letter mapping (Always!)
o We only wished to _improve_ upon the process.

You misunderstand something as _simple_ as that!
o You _think_ you comprehend - just as the lemon-juice robber did!
o Where no amount of "lemon-juice" chemistry fact - will change your mind.

You are the epitome of the DK lemon-juice bank robber's cognitive bias!

*Hence, no amount of fact _can_ work with you, and with people like you!*
o That! Is my epiphany!

_MOUNT REFERENCES FACTS follow (not for Diesel - for tribal knowledge):_

o How to mount the entire mobile device file system on Linux/Windows
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/6PQmYWSk34I/9kz19EkZCQAJ>

o How to read/write access iOS file systems on Ubuntu/Windows over USB cable
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/IFC52JXBQ1c>

o How to transfer iPad photos/videos to/from Linux/Windows over Wi-Fi LAN?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/YtpKpDhWm_s/1z7AO3jQCAAJ>

o What's the best way to copy someone's iDevice's photos to another user's MacBook locally?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/xEF1mtuvvJc/eIts5lSSCwAJ>

o Do these 3 WiFi tests of a network location to a drive letter mapping work for you on Android 7.0 Nougat & Windows 10 using only freeware?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/IswZ5yEcpYA/wWuqoICZBgAJ>

o Tutorial to run any Windows command directly on Android over either USB or Wi-Fi
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/JrWLPRYO-TU/2gn6KqccBwAJ>

o What method you use to backup & share your installed apps on Android?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/FsRRoQbdKeo/biXD3Zv0AwAJ>

o Why doesn't Ubuntu 18.04 ask to install next to Windows 10 Pro single HDD as a dual boot?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/D7E7FQ1NLNk/B4xroB8rCAAJ>

o Proactive setup instructions for dual boot with Windows & Ubuntu via Grub using legacy keyboards
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/WltumTFjzU8/98HTzaNuCAAJ>

o Freeware to access your Android hosts file from Windows without being root
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/LTQtwSGROw8/XePw-iPuAgAJ>
etc.

[Diesel]

Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com>
news:gacjvm...@mid.individual.net Fri, 18 Jan 2019 00:12:38 GMT

in alt.os.linux, wrote:

> He pulls the same shit on the iOS and macOS newsgroups for hours
> upon hours daily, and fails miserably to get the simplest things
> done for months there as well - all while insulting everyone there
> and claiming he's smarter than everyone on the planet. He shows
> what an idiot he is every time he opens his big mouth. It's really
> pathetic to watch him go down in flames over and over again, all
> while screaming "FAKE NEWS" when anyone points out his stupidity.

He's very amusing at times with what he thinks are witty insults. He
claims to have been on usenet for decades in newsgroups I've frequented
for decades, yet, somehow, he has no idea what my normal posting handle
actually is. :) I just don't buy that.

Watching him publish hello world programs as he went through online
tutorials for programming Android devices was hilarious from my point
of view; that being, decades of actual programming experience on a wide
variety of platforms. Not scripts, but, actual programs that worked as
intended, from scratch. No hand holding GUI, etc.




--
Landing: A controlled mid-air collision with a planet.

[Diesel]

arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> news:q1rk2t$agb$1...@news.mixmin.net

Fri, 18 Jan 2019 04:18:38 GMT in alt.os.linux, wrote:

> On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 23:14:44 -0000 (UTC), Diesel wrote:
>
>> I can't speak for others, but, I'm far from stupid, Arlen.
>
> Hi Diesel (et al.),

Hello Arlen...

> I'm only going to respond to you, Diesel, and not to the drivel
> who may follow in your wake (e.g., Cybe R. Wizard, Dan Purgert,
> Jolly Roger, Tim Streater, Alan Browne, Alan Baker, nospam,
> haemactylus, Char Jackson, Rene Lamontagne, et al.), simply
> because the response to any one of you is the same as the response
> to all.

I know some of the individuals you mentioned from prior
conversations. At no time have I found any of the aforementioned
people to be stupid, though. I don't even consider David Brooks or
the Anoncoward stupid. misguided, certainly, but, stupid, heh, no.

> Having said that, your claim that you're "not stupid" is
> instructive because all of you prove the point I was trying to
> make, which is: o *I used to think people like you on Usenet were
> either incredibly stupid,* o *Or, that you were simply pulling our
> legs by denying basic obvious fact* ...
> o *But now, I realize it's actually worse than that - far worse -
> in fact.* o You're incapable of _comprehending_ that you're
> incapable of comprehending.

You aren't even making logical sense, Arlen...

> This is not meant as an insult; it's meant to underscore why I
> will no longer attempt to deal with the likes of you using cold
> hard facts.

When you're actually able to present some cold hard facts, I'd be
interested in reading them.

> You're not capable of _comprehending_ even the _simplest_ of
> facts. o Simply because you actually _think_ you do comprehend
> them!
>
> Do you understand the conundrum Diesel?

Arlen, you're writing gibberish. I don't process gibberish.

> Given that, my approach to responding to the likes of you was
> tactical: o If you were simply ignorant - I supplied facts to back
> up everything; o When you pulled our leg - I make it "less fun"
> for you.

I'm not ignorant of any of the subjects you've asked about so far,
Arlen. I have viable and working solutions to each problem you've
presented thus far. I've intentionally withheld such information from
you, for a very simple reason. That I've previously stated.

> I was hoping for one of two effects depending on the reason you
> were immune to basic facts...

I'm not immune to facts, basic or otherwise Arlen. I prefer dealing
in facts, myself.

> My tactics are well known and quite obvious:

Yes, you're a rudimentary skill level troll. You actually think that
grade school level insults, ad nausem, will convince one or more of
us to hold your hand so that you can complete one of any number of
projects you've opted to do. Life doesn't work that way, but, for
some silly reason, you think it will online.

> In the case of confronting your bullying tactics, Diesel,

My refusal to just give you the answers along with an idiot proof set
of instructions to map a drive letter to your Androids accessable
internal/external memory doesn't make me a bully. It makes me an
individual who believes I should teach you to fish so that you can
feed yourself, not do the fishing for you. There's a difference, and,
you don't comprehend that.

> As you do now ... where you never add even a single iota of
> on-topic value to the thread conversation.

You asked about a way to move pictures from internal memory to
external memory if the built in camera app wouldn't let you change
the location. I provided what you incorrectly labeled as a 'file
redirector'. It doesn't redirect a damn thing. It waits for the file
to be saved where you selected and then it moves it where you wanted
it. I provided you several options to choose from, and I took the
time to test them on my own equipment. Works as advertised.

After you incorrectly labeled them as file redirectors, I heard
nothing else from you on the subject. You can't even use the proper
terminology to describe what it is you do/don't want, Arlen.

> o For example, remember this "Snit" video?

I'm not Snit.

> In fact, in reference to what you're alluding to, I accidentally
> left out a key step which I repeatedly _challenged_ you on when
> you said you could perform the task - where absolutely _none_ of
> you drivel knew what I was talking about.

The key step was the 3rd party driver which isn't universal that was
necessary. And, it didn't provide you full access to the device,
either. It provided you what amounts to userland access and only
that. I mentioned that sometime ago in a follow up post to your
previous challenge. Either you didn't read it, or, you did and are
lying about that now with your accusation that I didn't know what you
were writing about. I went a step further and told you flat out that
not all linux distros supported it out of the box, because they
didn't include the software, too.

The linux distro you've opted to use isn't the only one in existance
and isn't the most popular, either. Just because you can do something
you think is out of the box on your distro doesn't mean everyone else
can with theirs. And, I told you that then, too.

> Very few people can answer my questions.. Very very few.
> Paul. David Empson. Mike Easter, Marek (bless his soul) ...
> (the list of purposefully helpful intelligent people is rather
> short).

Oh please, you don't think those people know you're trying to kiss
their ass cheeks? You'd love it if they'd just give you complete step
by step instructions for each problem you present.

I mean no offense to anyone from your list, but, I don't even think
they'd all agree with you concerning superior I.T knowledge over my
own. I have a proven track record, that you still seem to know
nothing about, despite supposedly being on usenet for decades. Just
too funny.

> Certainly the likes of you, Diesel, will _never_ be able to.
> o People like you never _intend_ to add to the tribal knowledge
> o People like you _can't_ add to the tribal knowledge.

Tsk Tsk...Once again, you make those statements only because you have
no idea who I am. You've made the grave mistake of dismissing me as
some usenet troll who's out to fuck with you. I'm neither.

>> You were incapable of being a responsible adult and
>> issuing an apology.
>
> Hehhehheh... An apology Diesel?

Yes. For smarting off. Where I come from, smarting off to people you
don't know doesn't make those people do you any favors until you make
things right with them. I realize you're in cali, so perhaps your
line of thinking is a little different there. An absurd issue of
entitlement perhaps? Too many trophies given to you just for
participating, perhaps.

> I have absolutely no problem apologizing when I make factual
> mistakes. None.

Yes, you clearly do. You wrote some childish insults towards me in
another thread, where you were asking how to mount an Androids
internal/external memory as a drive letter so you can do more with
the files present. I responded that I had several ways in which you
could accomplish this, just like you wanted, but, I'd need an apology
for your shitty comments before I'd fork over the information.

I made a very simple, easy, request of you. It wasn't something you
were capable of doing, so, being true to my word, I didn't provide
you specific information on how to do what you wanted to do.

And, as far as I'm aware, you've yet to find someone else to help you
do it, because you sure as hell haven't gotten it figured out on your
own. I haven't seen any posts from you crowing about it, or listing
mind numbing boring toddler step by step details on any of the
methods for doing it. That tells me, months later, you still don't
know how.

> I've been studying people like you for decades because, as you
> know, I worked for decades in the Silicon Valley, with truly
> intelligent people, after having gone to the best schools in this
> country, with trully intelligent people, after having grown up in
> some of the most expensive locations in the country, again,
> populated by truly intelligent people.

BAWAHAHAHAHA. Thanks Arlen, that bullshit was highly entertaining. I
think I hit the nail on the head with my cali comment above. Tell me
something, have you ever lived outside the state of cali? It's a big
world and cali is only a small part of it. Personally, if cali broke
off and sank into the ocean tomorrow, I'd be okay with that. I can't
think of much good that comes from cali...I can think of alot of
bullshit though. Don't even get me started on the scary guns laws you
cali people like to pass...way too much pussification in that state.

> Compared to them, I'm of average intelligence, if even that.
> I've never said otherwise.

I think you give yourself a bit too much credit there, Arlen.
Javascript isn't hard, mapping drive letters to various types of
devices isn't that difficult either. It's childsplay.

If you want me to take you as a serious programmer, show me something
real; some nice asm, c++, something along those lines. I'd even
accept a nice asic source to something that is cool. A fractal
generator, a .wav player, something along those lines; because you
can't call an API and ask windows to do it for you in that language.
[g] Not some lame ass, idiot friendly scripting language intended to
be used by those who have no real coding skills and have no interest
in learning the software and hardware relationship.

> But people like you, Diesel, are so far below those people I just
> mentioned (who actually _are_ intelligent), that it still boggles
> my mind how fantastically incomprehensive people like you are.

h0h0h0. That's your problem, Arlen. You write shit all the time, and
it's pure shit. I've done alot of work for silicon valley people from
the comfort of my home, way the hell away from cali. They recruit me
for these jobs, Arlen. I don't apply to them.

I may not have the most pleasant attitude on usenet towards some
individuals, but, those companies aren't paying me for my attitude or
lack of one. They pay me for the technical expertise I have.
Technical expertise I earned by being in the trenches of the I.T
world since I was still single digit age. many many years before it
was 'cool' to know anything about computers. Many years before
Windows, too.

> You're immune to facts.

My entire world deals with facts, for the most part. Electrical
theory aside (it's mostly fact, with a few exceptions to the rule).

> People like you, Diesel, and people like you abound, are incapable
> of comprehending even the _simplest_ of the simplest of the
> simplest of facts.

You're writing shit, again. Pure shit.

>> Due to that, and only that, I opted not to
>> provide you any specific details concerning sharing your Android
>> device internal/external memory over your network via a drive
>> letter mount.
>
> Hehhehheh ... Hi Diesel,
>
> First off, I will be blunt ... you _never_ knew _anything_
> whatsoever.

That's funny, because right now, I'm copying a document from my
external android memory to one of my linux machines across the
network. The linux machine actually sees it as a network drive share.
[g] And, the Windows XP (XP no less Arlen) machine sees the Android
device as two drive letters; one for internal one for external. And,
the XP machine isn't playing host to the device, another linux box
is. I could have set the Windows box up as the host though, very
little configuration difference between the two.

How are you coming along with it, since you asked how to do it months
ago? Got even one version of it working, yet?

Btw, yes, all of the computers on this network have full read/write
access to the Android mapped shares. It would be pointless for them
not to.

> I need to say that clearly - not for you - as you won't believe
> it. But for the others to comprehend that you know absolutely
> nothing.

That's another problem you have, Arlen. Various people you've
mentioned, including the likes of Mike Easter do infact know me, and
they also know I'm not full of shit. Mike knows alot about me,
actually. Even including some.. not so nice things I'm responsible
for. I think you'll be very hard pressed to find him agreeing with
you concerning my so called stupidity concerning I.T. Why don't you
ask him? :)

> Having said that, you proved time and again that you couldn't even
> tell us the single *critical* step I had missed in outlining the
> tutorial for how to access the _entire_ device system contents.

You didn't access the entire device contents at any time. You were
only able to access userland. No magical driver is going to be able
to override that for you. It's not upto the driver, it's upto the
device. Short of rooting an Android device, you are not going to have
full access to it. And you damn sure aren't given free reign on Apple
products either. Not by a long shot. And incidently, rooting an
Android device doesn't give you god like powers over it entirely
either. You still don't have full, unrestricted access to do whatever
the hell you want. Some of the firmware contents still remains
outside your reach.

> Every single one of the people on the affected newsgroup didn't
> know. Not Paul. Not Mike Easter. Not you. Not Nospam. Not Rene.
> Not Char. o Simultaneously slide Windows Linux iOS Android files
> back and forth over USB at 7GB per minute speeds using 100% native
> devices (no proprietary software needed)
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.comp.freeware/K0NZ0nb1pWw/OBp
> oi3i8CAAJ>

Actually, my first comment on that was why you thought you discovered
something new. I also asked why you called it 'sliding'; when
copy/paste or cut/paste is already well established and requires no
additional explanation. I also went onto describe situations where
your solution doesn't work as advertised on ALL windows and linux
platforms, as you originally claimed.

When you learned that XP won't mount newer Android devices on it's
own without help, and various distros of Linux (Mint 17.3 for
example) won't either, you attempted to move the goalposts and rule
XP out (even though it IS a version of Windows and you previously
claimed your method worked on ALL flavors as you wrote it) and you
then opted to specify the particular distro of linux that you use,
only because you learned from me (haha, I was the first to mention
either of those two things) that various other linux distros may/may
not support what you want to do depending on android device and
version, without additional software that isn't included with the
distro.

I went a step further though, I even used one of my own android
devices that runs an older copy of Android; you dismissed it as a
result with another goalpost move. At the end of the day though, it
became quite clear that your so called universal method of exchanging
files via usb for windows, linux, Android isn't as universal as you
once assumed; because you haven't got the hands on real world
experience with various systems, including various Android devices
that don't always play nicely with each other, even if you think they
should.

> HINT: To this very day, 99.9% of you _still_ don't know how to do
> it. (Even though I explained it all in gory detail - including the
> key trick.)

You didn't explain anything of the sort. Several of us commented
about additional software your distro of linux has, that various
other distros do not always come with.

> But _you_, Diesel, you said it was trivial and that it was
> something you knew for a long time - which is ok - that's fine -
> but you only _beleived_ you knew ... when you proved - beyond a
> shadow of a doubt that you didn't.

I did say it was trivial (as did several others) and I have known how
to do it for a very long time. So long infact, I forgot it was worth
mentioning in a long post on usenet. I figured everybody knew how to
use usb to copy/move files between various devices they owned...

> I didn't know either - until I found it out about a year or two
> ago.

ROFL. I've been moving data back and forth between Windows, Linux,
Android, and the god awful (I'm not an apple fan) macOS for years
Arlen. It's not new to me, and not something I recently learned how
to do.

> The funny thing is that you "claimed" to know - but you didn't,

Indeed, I did. I also offered to provide you full details using
several different methods on mapping a drive letter to your Android
device. I requested one thing from you in return. An apology for some
assinine comments you previously wrote. You weren't emotionally
mature enough to issue an apology, so, I elected not to provide you
with help on that project. A project you've still managed to fail to
accomplish, I'll remind you.

> You don't even _realize_ that I _always_ could "mount" any Android
> file system onto Windows as a "drive letter" (using a variety of
> WiFi and USB methods).

Your previous posts don't support that conclusion. Infact, they show
that you weren't able to do this and tried various means in order to
accomplish it. The only thing you actually did (that I found funny as
all hell) was teach pooh that net supported webdav and has for
decades now. [g]

I don't know if you did that because pooh suggested utilities that
wouldn't on a cold snowy day in hell give you a mounted drive letter,
but you sure gave them a shot. :)

You have not been succesful mounting a drive letter to your android
device for read/write access. Let's not split hairs, that's what you
wanted to do, that's what you spent a considerable amount of time
trying to do, that's what you've continued to FAIL AT DOING.

Where as I, and several others (Carlos being another) have succeeded
in doing this, and are able to take advantage of the fruits of our
labor. We have drive letter mounts to our Android device. You do not.

> Often, people like Paul or Mike Easter will suggest valuable
> improvements. In this case, I don't think they did - so I learned
> nothing - but you _should_ have learned how to do what I've been
> doing for years.

I've been a certified (really) technician for nearly twenty (that's
just one cert, I've got several actually) years now. What you've
asked of the groups several times now is all childs play to me and
many of my peers. It's old news to us, been done and done to death.
We don't think anything of it.

> And yet, out of, oh, say 25 distinct posters, only TWO (Frank & I)
> understood the problem set (where Mike Easter & Paul understood
> the Windows/Linux side also).

I realize you have a problem with giving credit where it's due if you
have a personal issue with someone, but, it was ME, not them who
first clued you in about Windows and linux not being as universal to
your so called, method as you originally thought.

> Do you see I'm swimming in a sea of fools, Diesel?

You're swimming alone, actually.

> BTW, as an aside, I'm only explaining the truth - which is that
> few people _cared_ to comprehend the problem set - or - they
> didn't have to deal with both Android & iOS along with Windows &
> Linux (which is fine).

I have to deal with various operating systems on a daily basis, along
with a slew of internet of thing devices that people just can't seem
to not waste their damn money on. I have to make sure all those
stupid things people buy will talk to devices that are already in
service on various networks I'm responsible for.

You just screw off as a hobbyist, you aren't responsible for
supporting much more than your own personal gear and perhaps that of
a few neighbors who come to you for assistance. My workload on a good
day isn't anywhere near as small.

> But my point is that Frank & I advanced our overall tribal
> knowledge.

Frank gained nothing of value from the conversation. I was there too,
Arlen. You and you alone gained information from the rest of us, but,
did not credit all those who provided it.


--

Visualize using your turn signals

[arlen holder]

On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 06:27:21 -0000 (UTC), Diesel wrote:

> He's very amusing at times with what he thinks are witty insults.

Again, THANK YOU!

You literally prove the point of this thread in every post, Diesel.

Fact is, we go way back - you & me & Usenet - decades back.

You must comprehend that I'm completely different from you, Diesel.
o We have NOTHING in common.
o Absolutely nothing.

My strategy is well known, as are my (prior) tactics.
o The strategy is the Q&A Usenet model (to increase tribal knowledge)
o The tactics are to work my threads to solutions (and then disappear)

There are _plenty_ of examples of these tactics & strategy working.
Please see the ad-hoc references below, as just a few examples.

The key point is that (I thought) two types of people existed on Usenet:
o Intelligentsia (e.g., Mike Easter, Paul, Marek Novotny, et al.)
o Drivel (e.g., Char Jackson, Dustin Cook, Raid Slam, Gremlin, Casio, et al.)

I learn from and edify the intelligentsia.
And yet, we all struggle for how to deal with you drivel.
o The most common advice is to not feed you
o As we lose the moment we drop to your level due to your experience

However....
o That advice was meant for those who use the chit-chat Usenet model
o That advice may not work well for those who use the Q&A model

There is a difference in the model - hence - in response to the drivel:
o In the chit-chat model, you post 99% to other people's threads
o You say almost nothing in each post (if not nothing) of any real value
o Hence, when trolls infest a chit-chat thread - the ignore advice works

However, the Q&A model is focused on obtaining RESULTS.
o In the Q&A model, I post 99% to my own threads - all to improve knowledge
o What we say in a Q&A thread is far more important than who we are
o Hence, when trolls infest a Q&A thread - the advice to ignore fails

I like people like you, Dustin, to those who "contribute" a pile of shit
when asked to "bring something" of value to the Usenet potluck picnic.

The moment trolls like you arrive, Char Jackson, the picnic is _already_
ruined because you simply shit on the table with the utmost of glee.

Since I CARE that the Usenet Q&A model works, I have to learn how to deal
with trolls like you, Rene Lamontagne.

The approach I have previously tried is a multi-fold approach:
o I mirror the implied INTENT of the post (as recently with Dan Purgert)
o I confront cowardly bullies like you, Wolf K., directly & frontally

If you change your implied intent, as did Cybe R. Wizard today over here:
o Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/ydQ9sG-8Y08/wJn1tPDoDwAJ>
Then I dutifully mirror that exact change in implied intent.

Put in a way that, perhaps, even you can (maybe not?) comprehend:
o You always have to throw the first stone - I won't.
o However, when you throw that stone - I throw it right back.

The point is that there used to be only two reasons for your drivel:
o Either you _really_ are that _unfathomably_ stupid, or, a
o You're just playing your silly games (for your own Usenet amusement?)

In the case where I inferred that you're just plain stupid,
o I tried to reason with you with actual facts (yes, I know ... crazy);
o Where, it shocked me to no end your lack of factual comprehension.

In the case where I inferred you were simply playing childish games,
o I tried to make it "expensive" for you (i.e., "less fun");
o In that I simply point out exactly that which you prove to be.

In summary, key tactics I am consistent with to support my Q&A strategy
o Are that I confront you child-like troll bullies directly;
o Because I'm trying to accomplish something in a Q&A thread.

And, in the past, for when you trolls were shockingly incomprehensive
o I used to supply you with copious (if very basic) well-cited facts;
o Of which, you proved, consistently, to be quite immune to the effects of.

Having said that, I've come to an epiphany which changes not how I deal
with you cowardly bullying trolls when you bring your pile of steaming shit
to the Potluck Picnic which is Usenet ... but which changes how I deal with
you trolls (Rene Lamontagne, Char Jackson, Alan Browne, Alan Baker, Diesel,
Snit, nospam, Jolly Roger, Dan Purgert, FredW, Wolf K, Good Guy, et al.)
when you appear (as always) to be utterly incomprehensibly stupid.

It appears that most of you trolls suffer from left-side DK cognitive bias.

*In short, you're all the epitome of the "lemon-juice" bank robber*:
o You and that lemon-juice bank robber own the exact same type of brain.
o Hence, you're all insensibly _immune_ to even the simplest of facts.

I have tried to edify you - and clearly - I've failed.
o I've failed - because - sadly - you're insensibly immune to edification.
o That! Is my epiphany.

[arlen holder]

On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 21:06:17 -0500, nospam wrote:

>> Actually, I'm trying to help you.
>
> that's an impossible task

You're a bit of a different enigma, nospam.

While Wolf K & Jolly Roger & Char Jackson (et al.) always prove to be
incomprehensibly stupid - you're not _always_ unfathomably immune to even
the simplest of facts.

That makes you quite different - nospam - in that you actually have a
working synapse.

The proof is that you can handle detail - when you want to - which the
others, like, for example, Snit & Jolly Roger & Alan Baker can't
(they _still_ think that decibels are exactly the same as megabits!)

You _thought_ that, clearly, but you generally prove to "lie" and to "hide
the factual truth" and to purposefully "distort the factual truth" and to
"deny even that which Apple admits", which I generally attribute to
"malice" more so than sheer stupidity.

However, you've been wrong so many times I've often said your credibility
on being right is far worse than a monkey choosing which box to lift up to
find the bananas.

That makes you a DIFFERENT kind of enigma.
o Both somewhat smart;
o And incredibly stupid.

For example, you can only be ignorant in your posts related to this topic:
o Is there a single expensive flawed iPhone from last year that is NOT currently being throttled as of iOS 12.1?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/wbCbVX48E5M/sH7PiFtUFAAJ>

Where, the ignorance of people like you knows no sensible bounds:
o Does a free offline non-Internet calendar app exist for iOS that imports/exports ICS text files?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/OzUOmgJLmZs/MVz0tjHUFQAJ>'
(In that one, JR _clearly_ exhibited left-side DK cognitive bias traits!)

But you too, nospam, even though you're clearly worlds more intelligent
than is Jolly Roger (which, sadly, isn't saying all that much), you
constantly send poor unsuspecting iOS users on wild-goose chases that they
have no hope of being successful at:
o Why do the Apple Apologists constantly send poor unsuspecting iOS users on wild goose chases?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/ynh0PE9lK_I/QOiGP4_SFQAJ>

You're an enigma, nospam, because you're not just stupid.
You actually are somewhat "clever" in that you _love_ to distort the truth.

Where ... my point is ... that you have to know the truth - in order to
distort it (which you are consistent at doing).

For example, you claim facts are untrue - even though Apple admitted them.
You deny facts Apple has already admitted so much, I have to wonder why:
o What is wrong with nospam that he flatly denies even what Apple admitted?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/fyL1cQUVCp0/e5J-nW0hBAAJ>

Or, you claim all facts you don't like, are trolls:
o Why does nospam always call all facts he doesn't like, trolls?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/FZVR227jn4g/tq_vJhGpAAAJ>

*Or, more often than not, you _fabricate_ an imaginary belief system!*
o Why do the Apple Apologists deny facts & habitually fabricate imaginary content?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/eRTC23FyVDY/fDk0k8KAAwAJ>

Fabricating fanciful non-existing functionality time and again:
o Name a single iOS app functionality that you can get for a buck, that isn't already on Android, for free
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/aUyeuaPI9pc/r9gtLFjXAwAJ>

What's odd, is that you care not that you utterly lack credibility nospam.
Which makes you the complete opposite of who I am, since my credibility is
stellar (you _still_ can't find any statements fact I've made to you that
are incorrect - even though - I'm only human - so out of my thousands upon
thousands upon thousands of facts - I must have goofed at least once).

The rest of the bunch (e.g., Jolly Roger, Alan Baker, Alan Browne, Tim
Streater, Diesel, Snit, Rene Lamontagne, Char Jackson, Anonymous, et al.,
o Are always just unfathomably stupid.

While I've accurately characterized all 7 of your responses to facts you
don't like in this thread...
o The 7 consistently predictable responses of nospam to facts he doesn't like
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/18ARDsEOPzM/veU8FwAjBQAJ>

I haven't yet figured out why you are almost always dead wrong.
o Are you really that unfathomably immune to simple facts, nospam?
o Or are you incessantly playing your silly little childish games, nospam?

Only you know for sure.

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 07:09:45 -0000 (UTC)
arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:

> how to deal with you drivel.

^^^^^
Someone get this poor young fellow a dictionary.

Cybe R. Wizard
--
“If you can't make fun of yourself, someone else will do it for you.”
Pasquale A Leonardo

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 07:09:45 -0000 (UTC)
arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:

> If you change your implied intent, as did Cybe R. Wizard today over
> here: o Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring
> system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices?
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/ydQ9sG-8Y08/wJn1tPDoDwAJ>
> Then I dutifully mirror that exact change in implied intent.

That is so completely false that it is a verifiable bald-faced lie,
Harlon. My /EXPRESSED/ intend (not implied at all) has /always/ been
to hold your feet to the fire about your constant lying.

Show those 10,000 tutorials you've written, Arlene, and we can dispense
with our interactions altogether.

Don't be afraid; just do it. Heh.

Cybe R. Wizard
--
Falsehood is invariably the child of fear in one form or another.
Aleister Crowley

[Alan Baker]

On 2019-01-17 11:43 p.m., arlen holder wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 21:06:17 -0500, nospam wrote:
>
>>> Actually, I'm trying to help you.
>> that's an impossible task
> You're a bit of a different enigma, nospam.
>
> While Wolf K & Jolly Roger & Char Jackson (et al.) always prove to be

> incomprehensibly stupid - you're not_always_ unfathomably immune to even

> the simplest of facts.
>
> That makes you quite different - nospam - in that you actually have a
> working synapse.
>
> The proof is that you can handle detail - when you want to - which the
> others, like, for example, Snit & Jolly Roger & Alan Baker can't

> (they_still_ think that decibels are exactly the same as megabits!)

Would that be like you not knowing the difference between "epitome" and
"epiphany"?

Seriously, though.

I bet you cannot produce a single quote where I in any way conflate
decibels and megabits, or in any way describe them as in any WAY the same.

:-)

[Dan Purgert]

Diesel wrote:
> [...]

> Watching him publish hello world programs as he went through online
> tutorials for programming Android devices was hilarious from my point
> of view; that being, decades of actual programming experience on a wide
> variety of platforms. Not scripts, but, actual programs that worked as
> intended, from scratch. No hand holding GUI, etc.

I love me some AVR "Hello World" programs. Although I was a stupid and
got Microchip's new "1-series" boards, and they're not the same as the
older ATTinyx5's that I've been playing with.

I'm definitely a midroad programmer at best ... and it is quite humbling
when you have to sit and really rack your brain for how to do "read this
pin" when there aren't any tutorials out there.

Maybe I should make one. Eventually. When I suck less, so I'm not just
one more example of "bad tutorial on the internet".

[Dan Purgert]

Diesel wrote:
> arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> news:q1rk2t$agb$1...@news.mixmin.net

>> I'm only going to respond to you, Diesel, and not to the drivel
>> who may follow in your wake (e.g., Cybe R. Wizard, Dan Purgert,
>> Jolly Roger, Tim Streater, Alan Browne, Alan Baker, nospam,
>> haemactylus, Char Jackson, Rene Lamontagne, et al.), simply
>> because the response to any one of you is the same as the response
>> to all.
>
> I know some of the individuals you mentioned from prior
> conversations. At no time have I found any of the aforementioned
> people to be stupid, though. I don't even consider David Brooks or
> the Anoncoward stupid. misguided, certainly, but, stupid, heh, no.

I'm definitely stupid, the proof is in responding to arlen.

Or is that insane?

> [...]

> Either you didn't read it, or, you did and are
> lying about that now with your accusation that I didn't know what you
> were writing about.

It probably goes back to arlen holder not using the right words. Cue a
new post about "increasing the tribal knowledge", wherein he describes,
oh I don't know, let's say "Internet Time Synchronization" ("ITS").

>> Very few people can answer my questions.. Very very few.
>> Paul. David Empson. Mike Easter, Marek (bless his soul) ...
>> (the list of purposefully helpful intelligent people is rather
>> short).
>
> Oh please, you don't think those people know you're trying to kiss
> their ass cheeks? You'd love it if they'd just give you complete step
> by step instructions for each problem you present.

Don't they do just that? I mean, I know Marek was quite thourough when
he was explaining something, and Mike is as well.

>
>> I've been studying people like you for decades because, as you

>> know, I worked for decades in the Silicon Valley [...]

Oh, California. This explains so very much.A

Prop 65 warning - Usenet is known to the state of California to cause
cancer.

> [...]

> If you want me to take you as a serious programmer, show me something
> real; some nice asm, c++, something along those lines. I'd even
> accept a nice asic source to something that is cool. A fractal
> generator, a .wav player, something along those lines; because you
> can't call an API and ask windows to do it for you in that language.
> [g] Not some lame ass, idiot friendly scripting language intended to
> be used by those who have no real coding skills and have no interest
> in learning the software and hardware relationship.

Just in case, I'd add "arduino doesn't count", personally. It has a
pretty hefty amount of "help".

>
> That's another problem you have, Arlen. Various people you've
> mentioned, including the likes of Mike Easter do infact know me, and
> they also know I'm not full of shit. Mike knows alot about me,
> actually. Even including some.. not so nice things I'm responsible
> for.

Great Lord Cthulhu, you're not involved with systemd are you?

>
> I went a step further though, I even used one of my own android
> devices that runs an older copy of Android; you dismissed it as a
> result with another goalpost move. At the end of the day though, it
> became quite clear that your so called universal method of exchanging

s/exchanging/sliding/

HTH. HAND. :)

> [...]

>> HINT: To this very day, 99.9% of you _still_ don't know how to do
>> it. (Even though I explained it all in gory detail - including the
>> key trick.)
>
> You didn't explain anything of the sort. Several of us commented
> about additional software your distro of linux has, that various
> other distros do not always come with.

Some of us commented that "wait, physically plug it in!?" was also a
downside. I'm Lazy (capital 'l' on purpose), and don't wanna be walking
upstairs to the laptop to plug in my phone to transfer media (or
whatever) to the laptop's harddrive nextcloud folder to then let the
laptop sync with said service.

>
>> I didn't know either - until I found it out about a year or two
>> ago.
>
> ROFL. I've been moving data back and forth between Windows, Linux,
> Android, and the god awful (I'm not an apple fan) macOS for years
> Arlen. It's not new to me, and not something I recently learned how
> to do.

I think I was maybe six when I learned one could click and drag a
document from "go away this is my stuff" to "A:/".

Maybe about ten when I learned "ctrl+A -> right click -> select 'print'"
would print all the things without opening them. (Major apologies in
advance for triggering a new "tutorial".)

> [...]

>> Do you see I'm swimming in a sea of fools, Diesel?
>
> You're swimming alone, actually.

With sharks (do do do do ... OHGOD MAKE IT STOP!)

> [...]

> and perhaps that of a few neighbors who come to you for assistance.

Perish the thought.

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 15:01:53 -0000 (UTC)
Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net> wrote:

> I'm definitely stupid, the proof is in responding to arlen.
>
> Or is that insane?

"Yes," to both. Welcome to the cabal.

Cybe R. Wizard
--
Usenet Rule #0: *There* *is* *no* *C*b*l*. There *is*, however, a
net-wide conspiracy designed solely to lead Dave Hayes (q.v.) to
believe that there is a C*b*l.

[Ken Hart]

If Arlen Holder and nospam were locked in a room together in Erwin
Schrödinger's house (cat optional), how long would it take before they
sounded just like the Monty Python "Argument" sketch ("I came here for
an argument!""No, you came here for an Argument!")?

--
Ken Hart

[Dan Purgert]

Ken Hart wrote:
> [...]

> If Arlen Holder and nospam were locked in a room together in Erwin
> Schrödinger's house (cat optional), how long would it take before they
> sounded just like the Monty Python "Argument" sketch ("I came here for
> an argument!""No, you came here for an Argument!")?

This is abuse, you want room 12A.

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 15:59:25 -0000 (UTC)
Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net> wrote:

> Ken Hart wrote:
> > [...]
> > If Arlen Holder and nospam were locked in a room together in Erwin
> > Schrödinger's house (cat optional), how long would it take before
> > they sounded just like the Monty Python "Argument" sketch ("I came
> > here for an argument!""No, you came here for an Argument!")?
>
> This is abuse, you want room 12A.
>

+1

I have one who, before learning to walk, would push her highchair
across the kitchen and climb up onto the counter to get to the upper
cabinets where she knew cookies were kept.

Had to nail her feet to the floor.

Cybe R. Wizard
--
I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time, so
that my children can live in peace.
Thomas Paine

[Ken Hart]

On 1/18/19 8:11 PM, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 15:59:25 -0000 (UTC)
> Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net> wrote:
>
>> Ken Hart wrote:
>>> [...]
>>> If Arlen Holder and nospam were locked in a room together in Erwin
>>> Schrödinger's house (cat optional), how long would it take before
>>> they sounded just like the Monty Python "Argument" sketch ("I came
>>> here for an argument!""No, you came here for an Argument!")?
>>
>> This is abuse, you want room 12A.
>>
> +1
>
> I have one who, before learning to walk, would push her highchair
> across the kitchen and climb up onto the counter to get to the upper
> cabinets where she knew cookies were kept.
>
> Had to nail her feet to the floor.
>
> Cybe R. Wizard
>

Child: "Mommie, why do I keep running in circles?"
Mom: "Shut up kid, or I'll nail your other foot to the floor!"

--
Ken Hart
kwh...@frontier.com

[arlen holder]

On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 06:27:21 -0000 (UTC), Diesel wrote:

> He's very amusing at times with what he thinks are witty insults.

Hi Diesel,
I have a strategy which is to use Usenet to get answers to tech questions.
(Yeah, crazy strategy ... I know ... many use Usenet for their amusement.)

My strategy is to share & cull & combine data to solve problems, together.
I use tactics to manage the threads where I ask those technical questions.

Two tactics I use consistently are to:
a. Mirror the implied intent of each post - regardless of prior history
b. Directly confront the cowardly bullies - of which you are one

The purpose of confronting the cowardly bullies is obvious:
o. Once they've infested a thread - the potluck picnic is already ruined
o. Make it "less fun" for the bullies - hoping they refrain next time

It's a battle of percentages, Diesel.
o One hundred percent of the time I will confront you cowardly bullies

The goal is for you to KNOW that I will do that.
o I will simply let _you_ make a fool of yourself, Dustin.
o By pointing out the very words that you post (they're always of a child)

If you consider me pointing out your very words to be "witty", so be it.
o I simply consider my tactic merely letting you prove you're a child.

Bear in mind, Diesel, and those like you, Dustin.
o While there is no love lost between us - I don't care about you.
o I just want you to act like an adult when posting to threads I care about

Simple. Consistent.
o A strategy to work a thread so that technical answers result.
o Tactics that fit that strategy and that deter childish bullies like you.

After having said that, you now know my strategy & tactics Diesel.
o Some bullies, like Char Jackson & Snit & Wolf K insists on their rights
o They, like Alan Baker & Jason Betts insist on a God-given right to Troll.

At times, even I must deviate from my tactics and respond to them that
o This is my last response to you in this thread (to save everyone else).

Much to everyone's pleasure, Diesel, I say that now to you, Dustin.

> claims to have been on usenet for decades in newsgroups I've frequented
> for decades, yet, somehow, he has no idea what my normal posting handle
> actually is. :) I just don't buy that.

Hi Dustin,

If you re-read what I wrote above, you see this consistent tactic:
o Mirror the implied intent of each post - regardless of prior history

You see, it matters not to me WHOM you post as - I don't even look:
o For the "chit-chat" Usenet model - who you are matters
o For the "chit-chat" model - it seems what you post matters not

The reason it matters not who you are is that I care about ANSWERS!
o In the "Q&A" Usenet model - what you post is all that matters
o That's simply because we'll take solutions from anyone - even you

Hence, it matters not to me whether you post as Casio, Diesel,
Diesel-Dum, Dustin Cook, Gremlin, Raid, Slam, et al.

You love to dox people, Diesel, just as David Brooks & Aardvark do.
You doxed David Eagle & Jenn Porter for example.
You're' no different than Steve Carroll (aka David Brooks & maybe Good Guy).

You wrote "virus families" as a vxer, disseminating them in the wild.
You even hosted a web site related to those efforts.

*Let me tell you a secret, Dustin... I don't give one whit about nyms.*
(I change mine all the time, for example, for aggregator privacy.)

In the chit-chat model, who you are may be important because
in general, you say nothing in every post.

In the Q&A model, who you are is meaningless; what matters is
what value you add to the overall tribal knowledge inherent in the
question.

I don't care if you posted as God herself - if you simply answer a question.

> Watching him publish hello world programs as he went through online
> tutorials for programming Android devices was hilarious from my point
> of view; that being, decades of actual programming experience on a wide
> variety of platforms. Not scripts, but, actual programs that worked as
> intended, from scratch. No hand holding GUI, etc.

Hi Dustin,

I know you consider yourself a genius for having disseminated viruses.

The problem, Diesel, is that you see me disseminating Hello World
programs, and you _think_ you can do better (which, maybe you can).

You _think_ by me disseminating those programs (which are, by the way,
to help others since they're all cut and paste designs), that I'm
claiming some kind of "genius").

The problem I have with your brain, Diesel, is that it's that of a child.

Nobody on this planet (but you) thinks disseminating a cut and paste
"Hello World" is a stroke of genius. Nobody.

Well, nobody but you.

BTW, this is for _others_ to get a gist of what Diesel is talking about:
o Report: My first "hello world" using Android Studio freeware on Windows worked just fine (in about an hour)
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/aW64zYeBtF0>

HINT: I always try to enable others to cut-&-paste what I can do
(and I never claim to be a genius - I just claim to be at least average).

My strategy is to share & cull & combine data to solve problems, together.

--
This is my last post to you in this thread (as everyone will appreciate).

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[nospam]

In article <q22n7l$9a5$1...@news.mixmin.net>, arlen holder

<ar...@arlen.com> wrote:

> I have a strategy which is to use Usenet to get answers to tech questions.

one that doesn't work particularly well.

[Diesel]

arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> news:q22n7l$9a5$1...@news.mixmin.net

Sun, 20 Jan 2019 20:55:18 GMT in alt.comp.freeware, wrote:

> On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 06:27:21 -0000 (UTC), Diesel wrote:
>
>> He's very amusing at times with what he thinks are witty insults.
>
> Hi Diesel,
> I have a strategy which is to use Usenet to get answers to tech
> questions. (Yeah, crazy strategy ... I know ... many use Usenet
> for their amusement.)

You make some wild assumptions about what you think others do with
usenet and a variety of other items you write nonsense about,
Arlen...

> My strategy is to share & cull & combine data to solve problems,
> together. I use tactics to manage the threads where I ask those
> technical questions.

You belittle and insult those (like myself) who could be of benefit
to you, in so far as correctly answering technical questions and
presenting useful problem solving skills. There's no advantage for
you to use childish insults towards so many, Arlen.

> Two tactics I use consistently are to:
> a. Mirror the implied intent of each post - regardless of prior
> history b. Directly confront the cowardly bullies - of which you
> are one

Other than your childish attack towards myself, the rest of what you
wrote doesn't make any sense, either.

> The goal is for you to KNOW that I will do that.

I don't much care, Arlen.

> o I will simply let _you_ make a fool of yourself, Dustin.

Okay. When do you plan to do that?

> o By pointing out the very words that you post (they're always of
> a child)

Cite specific examples, please.

> Bear in mind, Diesel, and those like you, Dustin.

Diesel is fine. We haven't reached a first name basis just yet.

> o While there is no love lost between us - I don't care about you.

This personal feeling you've expressed has what to do with the
thread?

> o I just want you to act like an adult when posting to threads I
> care about

I've yet not to do so, Arlen. Have you ever thought (perish the
thought) that your own attitude might be the problem?

> Simple. Consistent.
> o A strategy to work a thread so that technical answers result.
> o Tactics that fit that strategy and that deter childish bullies
> like you.

I do assist in technical threads. You can find thousands where I've
done so. I choose not to give you easy answers to your questions,
specifically. That's not being a bully Arlen. It's a personal choice
that I'm free to make.

> After having said that, you now know my strategy & tactics Diesel.
> o Some bullies, like Char Jackson & Snit & Wolf K insists on their
> rights o They, like Alan Baker & Jason Betts insist on a God-given
> right to Troll.

Arlen, I don't know any of those people as bullies. Or trolls.

> At times, even I must deviate from my tactics and respond to them
> that o This is my last response to you in this thread (to save
> everyone else).

I don't care if you respond or not.

> Much to everyone's pleasure, Diesel, I say that now to you,
> Dustin.

My name isn't exactly new information Arlen. Although, it's common
practice to address the poster by the posting nym, not their name.

I realize that along with childish insult efforts, you'll resort to
being an outright disrespectful prick as well. That's most likely
because I've already seen (as have you) several posts from others
who've already told you that I am (as I told you originally) one of
the people who lurk here who could actually provide you the
information you wanted concerning those drive letter mappings...

My refusal to do so, especially after a little confirmation could be
an annoying thing for you. Maybe you'll reconsider coming off as such
an asshole right away in the future when you interact with someone
you don't know?

> Hence, it matters not to me whether you post as Casio, Diesel,
> Diesel-Dum, Dustin Cook, Gremlin, Raid, Slam, et al.

ROFL. Didn't post to usenet as Casio. Was a very short lived handle.
Needed something else to sign a particular piece of code
with...Happened to be wearing a casio watch - done deal. rofl. True
story, too.

> You love to dox people, Diesel, just as David Brooks & Aardvark
> do. You doxed David Eagle & Jenn Porter for example.
> You're' no different than Steve Carroll (aka David Brooks & maybe
> Good Guy).

Not true. David Eagle, Jenn Porter, AND, David Brooks came after me
FIRST. I just so happen to be a much fucking better shot, is all.

I don't recall Aardvark ever doxing anyone.

> You wrote "virus families" as a vxer, disseminating them in the
> wild. You even hosted a web site related to those efforts.

I've been writing functional code (that is, not stupid hello world
bullshit like you) since I was still single digit age. You know a
very small amount about my coding time.

And what little you've learned about me certainly doesn't support
your earlier claims of me being stupid. All my code is original, none
was written with a hand holding gui or online tutorial.

I spent a very small amount of time all things considering writing
self replicating programs (viruses) and worms, Arlen. I'd been
writing code for years prior to that.

> *Let me tell you a secret, Dustin.

Let me save you alot more trouble down the road with me, hopefully.
I've used a variety of analog (and later digital, lol) scopes,
meters, etc, to map out electronic and electrical circuits. I've been
doing that stuff since I was single digit age. I don't think I was
even five years old yet when I got my first soldering iron. I started
out reverse engineering electronic circuits. I took that mindset to
computers, at a single digit age. I Never quit doing it. Getting a
better picture now?

> In the chit-chat model, who you are may be important because
> in general, you say nothing in every post.

Yet, for saying nothing, I'm sometimes accused of being too techie;
please dumb it down further. [g] You are so fully of shit Arlen. You
remind me of the anoncoward. It would tell bullshit that was easy to
prove as being bullshit, just like you're doing now...

> I don't care if you posted as God herself - if you simply answer a
> question.

I do, many times. Accurate and useful answers at that.

>> Watching him publish hello world programs as he went through
>> online tutorials for programming Android devices was hilarious
>> from my point of view; that being, decades of actual programming
>> experience on a wide variety of platforms. Not scripts, but,
>> actual programs that worked as intended, from scratch. No hand
>> holding GUI, etc.
>
> Hi Dustin,
>
> I know you consider yourself a genius for having disseminated
> viruses.

Where did you ever get that stupid idea? I've apologized many times
over the years and 0wned the mistake of having written those
programs, nearly twenty years ago now.

> The problem, Diesel, is that you see me disseminating Hello World
> programs, and you _think_ you can do better (which, maybe you
> can).

Maybe? :) Just a couple of additional examples where I have continued
to do so, for decades.

1) http://bughunter.it-mate.co.uk/core/
2) http://bughunter.it-mate.co.uk

You just wrote material above, complaining about a few programs I
wrote. And let's admit it, they're a bit more complicated to write
than anything you've published. And that was nearly twenty years ago.

BugHunter wasn't exactly childsplay to write, the real challenges
with that project was the reverse engineering of malware samples.
That being said, it's a bit more complicated than anything you ever
published.

> Nobody on this planet (but you) thinks disseminating a cut and
> paste "Hello World" is a stroke of genius. Nobody.
> Well, nobody but you.

You're not being logical, again. It's clear by what little you know
of my coding background as well as the two urls above that I don't
consider your efforts to be genius grade. rofl.

> HINT: I always try to enable others to cut-&-paste what I can do
> (and I never claim to be a genius - I just claim to be at least
> average).

The problem you have is that you aren't even Average. You're a
childish old man, with according to new released information
concerning how states rank with education; most likely isn't quite as
educated as they let us on to think. Otherwise, many of the issues
you present with you'd be able to solve entirely on your own, without
the need for the tribe to hold your hand.



--
It's a backup server. Email if in doubt about authenticity.
Middle age is when you know your way around but don't feel like
going!

[Diesel]

arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> news:q1ru3o$qlr$1...@news.mixmin.net

Fri, 18 Jan 2019 07:09:45 GMT in alt.os.linux, wrote:

> On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 06:27:21 -0000 (UTC), Diesel wrote:
>
>> He's very amusing at times with what he thinks are witty insults.
>
> Again, THANK YOU!

MID: <q22n7l$9a5$1...@news.mixmin.net>

Forgot having already responded to this when you wrote that, huh? :)

> You literally prove the point of this thread in every post,
> Diesel.
>
> Fact is, we go way back - you & me & Usenet - decades back.

No, we don't, Arlen. The fact you've been using various handles and
my first name in another reply doesn't mean we have history. That
just means you read what Anoncoward has been posting, and, believed
it all, based on your other reply, hook line and sinker.

I've been around usenet for decades, but, I really doubt you have;
and I really doubt we've ever interacted prior to your thread a few
months ago. I would have remembered someone with the attitude you
have and wouldn't have made the first reply to you, knowing from
prior experience it's outcome.

> o We have NOTHING in common.

Computers are one thing we have in common in a very generalized
sense of the term, Arlen.

> My strategy is well known, as are my (prior) tactics.

Yes, your strategy of trolling is known. I wouldn't go so far as to
say well known at the moment, but, if you continue working on it,
I'm sure it will be.

> The key point is that (I thought) two types of people existed on
> Usenet: o Intelligentsia (e.g., Mike Easter, Paul, Marek Novotny,
> et al.) o Drivel (e.g., Char Jackson, Dustin Cook, Raid Slam,
> Gremlin, Casio, et al.)

Char Jackson, despite your implication and further claims, isn't me.
Your opinion of the contents of my posts is nothing more than that,
An opinion. An unfounded one at that.

> Since I CARE that the Usenet Q&A model works, I have to learn how
> to deal with trolls like you, Rene Lamontagne.

I'm not Rene either. And, I don't find them to be a troll.

> If you change your implied intent

I have no implied intent. If you meant to say change by ignore what
you've previously written and continue writing about me and focus on
helping you solve your petty issues, you've got me confused for
someone who actually is stupid in a sense. Like the suckers (let's
just call them for what they are, sorry if the truth hurts) you've
been able to con into providing you technical advice so far. Even
going so far as to praise them for their efforts. It does remind me
of being a cowardly, arse licking, toadie, bitch.

Some people are into such ego stroking. I'm not one of them.

> The point is that there used to be only two reasons for your
> drivel: o Either you _really_ are that _unfathomably_ stupid, or,
> a o You're just playing your silly games (for your own Usenet
> amusement?)

I can't very well be stupid AND have written the code you know
about, Arlen...I'm not playing any games, either.

> Having said that, I've come to an epiphany which changes not how I
> deal with you cowardly bullying trolls when you bring your pile of
> steaming shit to the Potluck Picnic which is Usenet ... but which
> changes how I deal with you trolls (Rene Lamontagne, Char Jackson,
> Alan Browne, Alan Baker, Diesel, Snit, nospam, Jolly Roger, Dan
> Purgert, FredW, Wolf K, Good Guy, et al.) when you appear (as
> always) to be utterly incomprehensibly stupid.

I understand why you write so much psycho babble bullshit now, after
reading a recent article. I've included it's link.

https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/terence-p-jeffrey/least-educated-state-california-no-1-percentage-residents-25-and

I never did like the snow and absurd cold temperatures, but, I have
to admit; the education system up north, where I'm originally from
was and still remains, far superior to anything you ever did in your
great state of cali.

I'm sure the cell newsgroups you selected love to read your whiny
posts. I've removed them from this followup. I left aol and acf
only. The regulars of those groups must have known you far longer
than myself, I've never seen any of them offer to assist you with
Android projects much so far. :)


--
=============================
'I killed a 6-pack just to watch it die.'

[Diesel]

arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> news:q1rnu4$gad$1...@news.mixmin.net

Fri, 18 Jan 2019 05:24:21 GMT in alt.comp.freeware, wrote:

> On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 23:14:44 -0000 (UTC), Diesel wrote:
>
>> they tried and failed, numerous times, to mount a drive letter
>> for their android device.
>
> Hehhehheh...
>
> THANK YOU Diesel for perfectly proving my very point!
> o I don't have to prove you lack even the most basic of
> comprehension o I only need to refer to your own words (which
> prove the point for me).

What is it you're trying to prove with this reply? You don't have a
mounted drive letter to access either your Androids internal or
external memory. You've been trying to do it for months now, but, so
far, have come up with nothing. The work arounds others including
myself have provided you are not the same as a mounted drive letter.

And, you know this. You'd have to be a real fucking idiot to assume
others have forgotten your long tirades and effort already spent in
accomplishing it. It's also a known fact, that you so far, haven't
been able to pull it off.

> o We _always_ had drive-letter mapping (Always!)
> o We only wished to _improve_ upon the process.

No, you haven't. You haven't been able to mount Android internal or
external memory as a usable drive letter for your Windows based
machine. You have made use of the MTP protocol via console and gui
several times to alter data on your Android device, but, you have
failed (and failed quite nicely for months now) to turn what you've
learned into a drive letter mapping.

> You misunderstand something as _simple_ as that!

I misunderstood nothing. You specifically wanted drive letters
pointing to your Android device shares. You have not been able to get
that working.

[snip thread links]

None of which result in a drive letter mapped to any Android device
shares for you, so far, Arlen.



--
=============================
Live as you will have wished to have lived when you are dying.

[Diesel]

Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net>
news:slrnq43qj...@xps-linux.djph.net Fri, 18 Jan 2019 15:01:53

GMT in alt.comp.freeware, wrote:

> Diesel wrote:
>> arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> news:q1rk2t$agb$1...@news.mixmin.net
>>> I'm only going to respond to you, Diesel, and not to the drivel
>>> who may follow in your wake (e.g., Cybe R. Wizard, Dan Purgert,
>>> Jolly Roger, Tim Streater, Alan Browne, Alan Baker, nospam,
>>> haemactylus, Char Jackson, Rene Lamontagne, et al.), simply
>>> because the response to any one of you is the same as the
>>> response to all.
>>
>> I know some of the individuals you mentioned from prior
>> conversations. At no time have I found any of the aforementioned
>> people to be stupid, though. I don't even consider David Brooks
>> or the Anoncoward stupid. misguided, certainly, but, stupid, heh,
>> no.
>
> I'm definitely stupid, the proof is in responding to arlen.
>
> Or is that insane?

You aren't stupid in the way in which Arlen is trying to paint
others, including myself. Everyone is ignorant in something or other
and that's a fixable condition. Stupid, oth, can't be fixed.

Maybe a slight case of insanity, or, you get some form of enjoyment
watching Arlen squirm? I know I do. :)

>> Oh please, you don't think those people know you're trying to
>> kiss their ass cheeks? You'd love it if they'd just give you
>> complete step by step instructions for each problem you present.
>
> Don't they do just that? I mean, I know Marek was quite thourough
> when he was explaining something, and Mike is as well.

To a point, yes. And it seems that some do like that sort of
attention, sadly. Despite their lengthly efforts to explain things,
Arlen still isn't making viable progress.

>>
>>> I've been studying people like you for decades because, as you
>>> know, I worked for decades in the Silicon Valley [...]
>
> Oh, California. This explains so very much.A
>
> Prop 65 warning - Usenet is known to the state of California to
> cause cancer.

Have you read the recent article concerning Californias education
level? Or, general lack there of. Those intelligent people he hung
around with weren't native Cali residents. [g]

> Just in case, I'd add "arduino doesn't count", personally. It has
> a pretty hefty amount of "help".

Arduino is just uber cool. I wish things like that existed when I was
a kiddo.

>> That's another problem you have, Arlen. Various people you've
>> mentioned, including the likes of Mike Easter do infact know me,
>> and they also know I'm not full of shit. Mike knows alot about
>> me, actually. Even including some.. not so nice things I'm
>> responsible for.
>
> Great Lord Cthulhu, you're not involved with systemd are you?

Oh, by no means. I did some terrible things, but, not that. :)

>> ROFL. I've been moving data back and forth between Windows,
>> Linux, Android, and the god awful (I'm not an apple fan) macOS
>> for years Arlen. It's not new to me, and not something I recently
>> learned how to do.
>
> I think I was maybe six when I learned one could click and drag a
> document from "go away this is my stuff" to "A:/".

Umm. It sounds like there's a bit of a difference in our age then. :)
My first computer didn't know what click and drag was using the OS
included on it's rom chips. Booting into the OS-9 operating system
allowed for use of a mouse though, amongst other things. My second
computer wasn't really beefy enough to be running windows 2x,3x
families. It was semi okay with desqview or geo. Not much else. You
can only get so much out of a 286 10megahertz chip. [g] But, it was a
super speed demon compared to my first computer and had so much more
capability, so I couldn't complain. I added a 40meg (yea, megabyte)
hard drive via an 8bit controller card, a paradise svga 512k 16bit
isa card (it rocked for it's time!!!), a soundblaster 16 (one of the
best xmas presents I've ever had). That 286 ran a board and was my
first PC compatible where I learned to code in assembler and asic. I
dabbled with a little c/c++ on it too. Learned how to reverse
engineer software with that machine, actually.

I also used it for some wonky electronics projects that'd I'd control
and or monitor from one of it's two serial ports. (com1,com2). It's
mainboard actually had rudimentary protection circuitry on those
ports, so it was perfect that. Little risk of messing something up if
your external circuit failed, or, you accidently connected it reverse
polarity. [g]

> Maybe about ten when I learned "ctrl+A -> right click -> select
> 'print'" would print all the things without opening them. (Major
> apologies in advance for triggering a new "tutorial".)

You were ten when you could just bring down a menu and click print,
and like magic, you got something cool on the paper right? I bet it
was even in color. [g]

My first printer was a 9pin dot matrix. And, there was no right click
menu print option for the computer it was attached to, unless I was
in os9 and the app I was using supported it. :) You might say it
could print a primitive form of grayscale with alot of coding effort,
but, color wasn't an option for it.

>> [...]
>>> Do you see I'm swimming in a sea of fools, Diesel?
>>
>> You're swimming alone, actually.
>
> With sharks (do do do do ... OHGOD MAKE IT STOP!)

I can't. :(

>> [...]
>> and perhaps that of a few neighbors who come to you for
>> assistance.
>
> Perish the thought.

It is a scary one, now that I think about it. So far, he seems to be
about as useful as jpegs to helen keller


--
=============================
'Potty emergency! Potty emergency!' -- Wakko Warner

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Mon, 21 Jan 2019 04:51:30 -0000 (UTC)
Diesel <m...@privacy.net> wrote:

> Have you read the recent article concerning Californias education
> level? Or, general lack there of. Those intelligent people he hung
> around with weren't native Cali residents.

Back when my daughters were 6 and 9 (they're 35 and 32 now) the
local print media provided a sample of the Cali. public school teacher's
test that the teachers were almost ready to strike over.

Both daughters took the (admittedly just a sample) test, both passed.
Elder Daughter, just 9, aced it. Don't bother listening to anyone
touting the high level of education availability in California.

Cybe R. Wizard
--
The very spring and root of honesty and virtue lie in good education.
Plutarch

[Dan Purgert]

Diesel wrote:
> Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net>
> news:slrnq43qj...@xps-linux.djph.net Fri, 18 Jan 2019 15:01:53
> GMT in alt.comp.freeware, wrote:
>
>> Diesel wrote:
>>> arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> news:q1rk2t$agb$1...@news.mixmin.net

> [...]

> Maybe a slight case of insanity, or, you get some form of enjoyment
> watching Arlen squirm? I know I do. :)

Schadenfreude is a powerful force...

(aside, ugh, goddammit slrn, you're not supposed to write the messageid
like that ... )

>
>>> Oh please, you don't think those people know you're trying to
>>> kiss their ass cheeks? You'd love it if they'd just give you
>>> complete step by step instructions for each problem you present.
>>
>> Don't they do just that? I mean, I know Marek was quite thourough
>> when he was explaining something, and Mike is as well.
>
> To a point, yes. And it seems that some do like that sort of
> attention, sadly. Despite their lengthly efforts to explain things,
> Arlen still isn't making viable progress.

I miss Marek, tbh. Was a good guy to chat with on the odd occasion that
something non-Usenet-worthy came up.

>
>>>
>>>> I've been studying people like you for decades because, as you
>>>> know, I worked for decades in the Silicon Valley [...]
>>
>> Oh, California. This explains so very much.A
>>
>> Prop 65 warning - Usenet is known to the state of California to
>> cause cancer.
>
> Have you read the recent article concerning Californias education
> level? Or, general lack there of. Those intelligent people he hung
> around with weren't native Cali residents. [g]

Nope, I'm still hoping that either

* Trump can get that wall built around CA and then just give it to MX
* That earthquake we were promised for 2013 knocks CA off the coast.

Movies aren't doing so hot on their predictions for the future though.

>
>> Just in case, I'd add "arduino doesn't count", personally. It has
>> a pretty hefty amount of "help".
>
> Arduino is just uber cool. I wish things like that existed when I was
> a kiddo.

IKR! My point though was that it (the IDE anyway) makes programming the
boards relatively trivial.

Not good enough to use makefiles / avrdude / etc. by hand yet, though I
have moved away from the Arduino IDE to Microchip's; so I can start
playing around with their new (non-compatible with Arduino) "1-series"
ATTiny chips.

>
>>> That's another problem you have, Arlen. Various people you've
>>> mentioned, including the likes of Mike Easter do infact know me,
>>> and they also know I'm not full of shit. Mike knows alot about
>>> me, actually. Even including some.. not so nice things I'm
>>> responsible for.
>>
>> Great Lord Cthulhu, you're not involved with systemd are you?
>
> Oh, by no means. I did some terrible things, but, not that. :)

Oh good. I didn't want to have to write you off as one of _them_.

>
>>> ROFL. I've been moving data back and forth between Windows,
>>> Linux, Android, and the god awful (I'm not an apple fan) macOS
>>> for years Arlen. It's not new to me, and not something I recently
>>> learned how to do.
>>
>> I think I was maybe six when I learned one could click and drag a
>> document from "go away this is my stuff" to "A:/".
>
> Umm. It sounds like there's a bit of a difference in our age then. :)

Come to think of it, my recollection is flawed - but yeah, I'm
definitely a bit younger than you. I would've been more like 10 when
that happened (Windows 3.xx / 95).

Computer we had when I was six was a Commodore 64. I didn't really _do_
much on it though. Best I had accomplished was copying a game from a
book. I think it was a "learn to program" book or something, that by
the end you had a working game. Or something like that. I just
remember a lot of

10 DO THING
20 NEXT THING
30 IF OTHERTHING THEN
40 GOTO 400
50 ELSE ...


> [...] I added a 40meg (yea, megabyte)

> hard drive via an 8bit controller card, a paradise svga 512k 16bit

I always wanted a voodoo, but by the time I could afford a computer,
they had died :(

> [...]

> I also used it for some wonky electronics projects that'd I'd control
> and or monitor from one of it's two serial ports. (com1,com2). It's
> mainboard actually had rudimentary protection circuitry on those
> ports, so it was perfect that. Little risk of messing something up if
> your external circuit failed, or, you accidently connected it reverse
> polarity. [g]

Heh, that's actually what I'm playing with right now -- there's a model
train control system based around PIC microcontrollers, wherein the
micro programming isn't open; but the guy who wrote it freely gave away
the external PC-to-microcontroller comms protocol (based on RS485).

There _is_ an arduino-based rewrite, and while it works out pretty well,
the approach is a bit convoluted. Or maybe I just don't understand the
brilliance of it :)

>
>> Maybe about ten when I learned "ctrl+A -> right click -> select
>> 'print'" would print all the things without opening them. (Major
>> apologies in advance for triggering a new "tutorial".)
>
> You were ten when you could just bring down a menu and click print,
> and like magic, you got something cool on the paper right? I bet it
> was even in color. [g]

No, when I could open a directory containing say a dozen documents and
by selecting all of them (e.g. with ctrl+a), could use the "print"
option from the right-click context menu and get all 12 of them to print
without needing to open each document individually.

No color either - it meant swapping the cartridge from the (expensive!)
black to the (even more expensive) color ink. We were only allowed to
use it for a one-page coversheet for school projects.

>
> My first printer was a 9pin dot matrix. And, there was no right click
> menu print option for the computer it was attached to, unless I was
> in os9 and the app I was using supported it. :) You might say it
> could print a primitive form of grayscale with alot of coding effort,
> but, color wasn't an option for it.

I keep meaning to get a dot-matrix and greenbar, for reasons.

[arlen holder]

On Sun, 20 Jan 2019 16:02:13 -0500, nospam wrote:

> one that doesn't work particularly well.

And yet, my facts are _always_ correct (see note 1).
While yours generally take fewer than 10 seconds to disprove.

Do you want me to cite situation after situation again nospspam?
Meanwhile, you can't find a _single_ time I've stated a fact to you
that wasn't correct.

All you can do is claim all facts are wrong - sans any proof.
It's the hallmark of children nospam (look at Cybe Wizard for an example).

I realize you childish Apologists, nospam, can _only_ play silly games.
o Your entire belief system is underlain by Apple MARKETING propaganda
o Hence, your biggest weakness, nospam, is plain old basic fact.

You have only seven responses to fact, in fact:

These are your 7 responses to fact, common to all you Apologists:
... *HABIT 1:*
. They brazenly & repeatedly fabricate wholly imaginary app functionality
. They then exclaim that it's been told to us many times how to do it
... *HABIT 2:*
. They almost never back up statements with actual referenced facts
. They incessantly play childish semantic games when faced with those facts
... *HABIT 3:*
. *They deny facts a priori - without even reading the referenced cites*
. Then they complain about quote snipping of their silly semantic games
... *HABIT 4:*
. They're never purposefully helpful by helping the OP answer the question
. They post worthless retorts, all of which lack any added technical value
... *HABIT 5:*
. They consistently blame Android for Apple's app & hardware faults
. They consistently find the absolute worst price:performance comparisons
... *HABIT 6:*
. They actually believe that a well-documented process is too complex!
. They literally believe elapsed time is proof of actual resolution time.
... *HABIT 7:*
. They consistently fabricate quoted content that never happened
. They then wittily respond to that imaginary quoted content as if it did!

[Diesel]

arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> news:q28f5v$1k9$3...@news.mixmin.net

Wed, 23 Jan 2019 01:14:42 GMT in alt.os.linux, wrote:

> On Sun, 20 Jan 2019 16:02:13 -0500, nospam wrote:
>
>> one that doesn't work particularly well.
>
> And yet, my facts are _always_ correct (see note 1).

No, they aren't. Let's rip one apart and be somewhat technical while
I do so. This way, you cannot claim I didn't add technical value to
the thread, and, I retain the pleasure of pointing out another
incorrect claim you've stated; well, two actually.

You claimed that your slider method of file movement via usb was
universal and worked with all versions of Windows, Linux, Android as
well as iOS without additional software of any kind required. You
were wrong.

Depending on Android OS version and device itself, Various versions
of Windows as well as Linux will not properly mount (if they will at
all) the Android device and give you any access to it's internal or
external memory contents. One windows example is XP, and, despite you
and Microsoft clearly wishing it was long dead; it's still breathing
and still in use in a variety of configurations, some of which are
very much online and surfing the net.

One linux distro example would be Linux Mint 17.3 KDE edition
(although DE doesn't really matter here); it will not auto mount
every single Android device out there, either.

> While yours generally take fewer than 10 seconds to disprove.

It took me three or less seconds when I began reading about your so
called slider method and the brilliance of it that you had no idea
what you were writing about. Copying files between devices via USB
was like an new experience for you. You seemed to be so awe struck by
the brilliance of it, that you incorrectly assumed it worked as you
found it to be on all windows and linux versions when infact, it does
not.

> Do you want me to cite situation after situation again nospspam?
> Meanwhile, you can't find a _single_ time I've stated a fact to
> you that wasn't correct.

I just provided one, and, went into lengthy detail concerning it. I
can do the same with others. That isn't your first or only one.

> All you can do is claim all facts are wrong - sans any proof.
> It's the hallmark of children nospam (look at Cybe Wizard for an
> example).

See above. I look forward to your efforts to dispute anything I wrote
in this reply.

> . They're never purposefully helpful by helping the OP answer the
> question .

Correction. I haven't thus far, been purposely helpful in answering
most of your questions. I have provided you a completely suitable
answer to one of your questions, though. Tested before suggesting
using my own gear on my own time. You can't ask for much better than
that, Arlen. I've been very specific about which technical questions
you ask that I refuse to give you an easy answer for as well; and, as
i'm sure you've noticed, efforts to reword it haven't thus far worked
for you. Despite your claims, I'm not stupid Arlen. I'm ignorant in
many areas, but, that's a curable condition.

You may infact just suffer from stubborn ignorance. It's a curable
condition as well, just takes a bit longer. Or, it's quite possible
you actually are as stupid as you're beginning to appear to be.

These long posts of yours, attacking various posters, doesn't serve
you any useful purpose. Time is better spent continuing with your
experiments. Most adults (that also means you Arlen, pay attention!)
realize that if you want help from someone (most people anyway) you
aren't going to get it if you refer to them as stupid, dumb, etc, the
moment they don't do something as soon as you expect them to. You
need to remember, communication via usenet wasn't intended to be for
real time purposes. if you want that, pick up the phone or something.



--
=============================
The purpose of computing is insight, not numbers.

[Diesel]

Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net>
news:slrnq43ol...@xps-linux.djph.net Fri, 18 Jan 2019 14:29:03

GMT in alt.os.linux, wrote:

> Diesel wrote:
>> [...]
>> Watching him publish hello world programs as he went through
>> online tutorials for programming Android devices was hilarious
>> from my point of view; that being, decades of actual programming
>> experience on a wide variety of platforms. Not scripts, but,
>> actual programs that worked as intended, from scratch. No hand
>> holding GUI, etc.
>
> I love me some AVR "Hello World" programs. Although I was a
> stupid and got Microchip's new "1-series" boards, and they're not
> the same as the older ATTinyx5's that I've been playing with.

That's a little different. You are in some ways, learning the
hardware and software relationship. Actual electronic components and
how they function in a circuit as well. Useful knowledge to have.
It's one of those things you actually can put to good use so called,
later in life. lol.

> I'm definitely a midroad programmer at best ... and it is quite
> humbling when you have to sit and really rack your brain for how
> to do "read this pin" when there aren't any tutorials out there.

Welcome to the world of reverse engineering. [g] I feel your pain
though. When I was learning the asic programming language (someone
uploaded an antique version of it to my BBS one afternoon), it could
be quite frustrating; because there weren't any programming tutorials
in it specifically on any of the local boards I could access. When I
got a shell account a bit later, I did find a few things, but, mostly
incomplete material intended for a later version than I had of the
language.

It does have examples in the pitiful manual that comes with it, but,
most of the examples have typos in one place or another which tends
to prevent the example from working as described. On a good note,
you'll learn the language better when you're debugging source code
you didn't write. Source code you were exposed to as a functional
example of how to use such and such internal command.

I appreciated it for it's deceptive simplicity as the file structure
it went with during the creation of a com/exe/obj file. It was quite
impressive for a single pass compiler, and, it was barely even a
compiler in the true sense of the word. All executables written and
compiled in the language are actually somewhat inefficient machine
code, without the benefits/drawbacks of a true HLL language in the
sense there's no runtime code present in your freshly created
executable. the single pass compiler basically looks at your source,
breaks it down into known machine code copies, and creates the final
executable using your logic and the prebuilt machine code for the
routines you've opted to use.

If you wanted to teach someone how to use a debugger and/or
disassembler, you really couldn't beat a copy of ralph browns
interrupt list, asic, some sample source code, and your debugger of
choice. You could write something simple in the asic language,
compile it, and debug the final output exe; since the results were
non optimized machine code. Very useful to teach a person the basics
of DOS executable file layout, execution methodolody, dos based
assembler.

As well as simple reverse engineering and patching, since you had no
HLL nonsense to be stepping or walking through. It was pretty
straight forward stuff.

> Maybe I should make one. Eventually. When I suck less, so I'm not
> just one more example of "bad tutorial on the internet".

I haven't seen your work, so really couldn't comment at this point.
Despite this, I doubt it's as bad as you're making it appear to be.
It certainly can't be any worse than reading one or more of Arlens
examples.


--
=============================
An ounce of application is worth a ton of abstraction.

[Diesel]

"Cybe R. Wizard" <cybe_r...@WizardsTower.invalid>
news:20190120235605.6bfbdbda@WizardsTower Mon, 21 Jan 2019 05:56:05

GMT in alt.os.linux, wrote:

> On Mon, 21 Jan 2019 04:51:30 -0000 (UTC)
> Diesel <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> Have you read the recent article concerning Californias education
>> level? Or, general lack there of. Those intelligent people he
>> hung around with weren't native Cali residents.
>
> Back when my daughters were 6 and 9 (they're 35 and 32 now) the
> local print media provided a sample of the Cali. public school
> teacher's test that the teachers were almost ready to strike over.
>
>
> Both daughters took the (admittedly just a sample) test, both
> passed. Elder Daughter, just 9, aced it. Don't bother listening
> to anyone touting the high level of education availability in
> California.
>
> Cybe R. Wizard

It's that bad huh? I'd heard stories about it for years. I do remember
one student who moved from cali to my home state when I was in the 7th
grade. I thought the individual was joking with us when they explained
that they hadn't begun doing various things we already started in 4th
grade and were well into by the time we got to 7th grade. Alot of the
stem stuff, it didn't have a name back then like that. We called it
science class. [g]


--
'The joyfulness of man prolongth his days.' - Ecclesiastics II:28

[Diesel]

Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net>
news:slrnq4bdm...@xps-linux.djph.net Mon, 21 Jan 2019 12:11:09

GMT in alt.os.linux, wrote:

> Diesel wrote:
>> Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net>
>> news:slrnq43qj...@xps-linux.djph.net Fri, 18 Jan 2019
>> 15:01:53 GMT in alt.comp.freeware, wrote:
>>
>>> Diesel wrote:
>>>> arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com>
>>>> news:q1rk2t$agb$1...@news.mixmin.net
>> [...]
>> Maybe a slight case of insanity, or, you get some form of
>> enjoyment watching Arlen squirm? I know I do. :)
>
> Schadenfreude is a powerful force...
>
> (aside, ugh, goddammit slrn, you're not supposed to write the
> messageid like that ... )

Don't blame your client on the messageid line wrap issue. It could be
mine. I've forced my client, at virtual gunpoint (take that
Anoncoward, I'll blast my usenet client in the fucking face if it
says no. NO mercy, .357 right in the fucking face!!! uber uber)

I like messing with my anonymous cowardly stalker, so I make things
interesting for them from time to time. I wrote a small pile of
little programs that do various things with xnews data files that
xnews won't lemme do via it's gui. :)

Since i don't have xnews source code, I had to make my changes at an
external level, rather than internal one. Nearly everything in my
headers is configurable now. Batch que sends of posts in whatever
order, including random I like; even being able to select posts as a
pile to be sent before or after another pile at whatever time i like.

quick searching saved articles, sent articles, entire threads it has
a local copy of, that sort of thing. very useful. I've reverse
engineered the hell out of this client. And, it even works using Wine
on the linux distro's I run on a daily basis. So far, all the little
programs I've written to interact with it's configuration and/or data
files does as well. I am working on retooling them to become native
elf binaries though. It'll be a little silly that xnews runs under
wine, but the little hacking tools I wrote don't need it. lol.

> I miss Marek, tbh. Was a good guy to chat with on the odd
> occasion that something non-Usenet-worthy came up.

Agreed.

> * Trump can get that wall built around CA and then just give it
> to MX * That earthquake we were promised for 2013 knocks CA off
> the coast.

LOL!!!

[snip]

>> Arduino is just uber cool. I wish things like that existed when I
>> was a kiddo.
>
> IKR! My point though was that it (the IDE anyway) makes
> programming the boards relatively trivial.
>
> Not good enough to use makefiles / avrdude / etc. by hand yet,
> though I have moved away from the Arduino IDE to Microchip's; so I
> can start playing around with their new (non-compatible with
> Arduino) "1-series" ATTiny chips.

Sweet.. Still, IDE or not, Arduino is fun to play with. I wouldn't
have any issue personally if you shared source code or design layouts
or what not related to it. We might want to use another newsgroup for
that, but, I wouldn't mind. I don't consider it hello world grade
newbie bullshit, fwiw, either.

> Oh good. I didn't want to have to write you off as one of _them_.

Nah. I did some very immature things for a few years in the late 90s,
early 00. Wrote some rather nasty code of a self replicating nature
along with some very choice comments in a vx interview and on usenet
concerning the work. I'm sure the Anoncoward (it's a stalking groupie
of sorts, they really want me; I hope it's a girl...one can never
quite tell these days until it could be too late) will be around here
to share some posts describing what I did, and all kinds of things I
didn't do as well (it's really not picky) Just give them a little
time. They've gotta put just the right snippits together. [g]

> Computer we had when I was six was a Commodore 64. I didn't
> really _do_ much on it though. Best I had accomplished was
> copying a game from a book. I think it was a "learn to program"
> book or something, that by the end you had a working game. Or
> something like that.

The first computer I owned was the Tandy Color Computer 3. Aka, the
Coco3. The Commodore 64 was superior to it in some aspects. I
wouldn't have minded an Amiga based system though. Despite Amiga
having the least in common with any of the other two in so far as a
gateway to the PC world. by PC, I mean Intel compatible.

> I just remember a lot of
>
> 10 DO THING
> 20 NEXT THING
> 30 IF OTHERTHING THEN
> 40 GOTO 400
> 50 ELSE ...

And hoping there aren't any typos in the printed source code as you
continue keying it all in.

>
>> [...] I added a 40meg (yea, megabyte)
>> hard drive via an 8bit controller card, a paradise svga 512k
>> 16bit
>
> I always wanted a voodoo, but by the time I could afford a
> computer, they had died :(

I had a voodoo2 paired with a diamond viper on a FIC-VA 503+
mainboard running an AMD k6/2-350 machine with 512megs of ram at the
time, 80gig IDE based hard drive, dvd burner (4x I think it was, may
have been a little faster) in a mid tower, running Windows 98se. It
rocked for Need for speed, hot pursuit. The graphics amazed me.

I built the rig during my lunch break at a place I worked at the
time, as (oh the irony) a certified (I got my first Novell cert when
I was still in high school, hehehehe) computer technician. Got it for
cost of parts, no labor (as I'd assembled it myself, rofl) and sales
tax.

> Heh, that's actually what I'm playing with right now -- there's a
> model train control system based around PIC microcontrollers,
> wherein the micro programming isn't open; but the guy who wrote it
> freely gave away the external PC-to-microcontroller comms protocol
> (based on RS485).
>
> There _is_ an arduino-based rewrite, and while it works out pretty
> well, the approach is a bit convoluted. Or maybe I just don't
> understand the brilliance of it :)

You like model trains too? I had several when I was a kiddo myself. I
was really into them. I was into anything that ran on electricity
though, batteries or plugged in. I had to know how it worked. The
first time a good bite knocked me clear across the room, I had to
know HOW AND WHY it did that. A normal kid I think would have not
touched another screwdriver and gone anywhere near something like
that again. Not me. I was hooked. [g]

> No, when I could open a directory containing say a dozen documents
> and by selecting all of them (e.g. with ctrl+a), could use the
> "print" option from the right-click context menu and get all 12 of
> them to print without needing to open each document individually.

Oh, Okay. I gotcha. I remember writing a pile of Lprint ,port, value,
text string, etc commands to my first printer. The coco3 didn't use a
mouse unless you were running a very specific program to do it. And,
with 128k total of memory and floppy or cassette as your only data
storage options, you didn't do much gui based printing. [g]

The 512k expansion pack and os-9 changed that though. It provided a
very cool for it's time GUI based operating system that actually did
multi task via cpu time slicing, on a pitiful standard speed
1megahertz chip; but you could poke it to overclock at 2megaherts
speed, if you wanted. You could also overclock the floppy drive
controller card as well as leave the floppy drive spindle motor
running when the drive wasn't in use to max out the load/save time on
your machine.

>> My first printer was a 9pin dot matrix. And, there was no right
>> click menu print option for the computer it was attached to,
>> unless I was in os9 and the app I was using supported it. :) You
>> might say it could print a primitive form of grayscale with alot
>> of coding effort, but, color wasn't an option for it.
>
> I keep meaning to get a dot-matrix and greenbar, for reasons.

They can still be handy today.


--
My memory sucks, so I changed my computer password to incorrect.
That way if I forget it, it tells me "your password is incorrect".

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 01:14:42 -0000 (UTC)
arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:

> All you can do is claim all facts are wrong - sans any proof.

The proof is in the putting and I'm putting the proof, in the form of
message IDs (see below) which are YOUR writings, in most every message
I send these days.

> It's the hallmark of children nospam (look at Cybe Wizard for an
> example).

I've never claimed that your 'facts' are wrong; I've merely suggested
that they are very few and far between and that what does emerge from
your dementia is not factual too often. For instance, what you just
said about me is just a lie. NO facts present.

BTW, have you yet come up with the list of TEN THOUSAND tutorials you
say you wrote in Message-ID: <po4626$vpu$1...@news.mixmin.net>?

Hey, Harloo, do you really believe that anyone thinks you to be honest
any more now that your constant lies are being broadcast worldwide so
regularly?

Cybe R. Wizard -knows you liars well
--
A liar begins with making falsehood appear like truth, and ends with
making truth itself appear like falsehood.
William Shenstone

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 03:49:13 -0000 (UTC)
Diesel <m...@privacy.net> wrote:

> I was into anything that ran on electricity
> though, batteries or plugged in. I had to know how it worked. The
> first time a good bite knocked me clear across the room, I had to
> know HOW AND WHY it did that. A normal kid I think would have not
> touched another screwdriver and gone anywhere near something like
> that again. Not me. I was hooked. [g]

A normal kid would say, "I'll never do that again."

A sciency kid would say, "I wonder if that always happens," and do it
again.

A true scientist kid would say, "I wonder if that always happens," and
sends another kid to do it again.

Cybe R. Wizard
--
"Wanna see me pull a habit out of my rat?"
Amy Farrah Fowler, "The Big Band Theory"

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 01:27:05 -0600
"Cybe R. Wizard" <cybe_r...@WizardsTower.invalid> wrote:

> "Wanna see me pull a habit out of my rat?"
> Amy Farrah Fowler, "The Big Band Theory"

Clearly that should read, "...Big Bang Theory."

Cybe R. Wizard
--
With any new medium, the full power is only unearthed with
experimentation.
Sebastian Thrun

[R.Wieser]

Cybe,

> A true scientist kid would say, "I wonder if that always happens,"
> and sends another kid to do it again.

I almost electrocuted my (younger, always younger) brother that way. When I
was young (pre teen) I had the mistaken idea that a current passing thru a
wire/metal made you get a shock (I once, by mistake, touched a the innards
of a switch and that was what I got. Hence the experiment to verify my
train of thought).

So I attached a 220 volt wire to some lodged metal rod and asked my brother
to touch it - after which I would quickly-and-lightly touch the other side
with the other wire. Just a light jolt, right (hey, I was still alive) ?

Luckily he refused. Had he actually grabbed it there would have been a 50%
chance he would have had the live wire, and would not have been able to
release it anymore ...

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

[Cybe R. Wizard]

Do you know who DOES NOT trifle with electricity?

Electricians.

They know better.

Cybe R. Wizard -has been hit with 110v, 20 amp, but just one finger
--
My other car is a Chandler MetalSmith Mark III

[Paul]

Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 01:27:05 -0600
> "Cybe R. Wizard" <cybe_r...@WizardsTower.invalid> wrote:
>
>> "Wanna see me pull a habit out of my rat?"
>> Amy Farrah Fowler, "The Big Band Theory"
>
> Clearly that should read, "...Big Bang Theory."
>
> Cybe R. Wizard

Maybe the .sig came from the Big Band era,
Guy Lombardo, Benny Goodman, Glenn Miller.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9J5Zt2Obko

Paul

[Cybe R. Wizard]

:-)

New old from Austria:
http://www.rat-bigband.at/

Hear here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9lMaGdE0Ys (but it's 80s music, not
BB era)

Cybe R. Wizard
--
I started a big band when grunge was popular. I mean, that didn't make
much sense.
Brian Setzer

[R.Wieser]

Cybe,

> Do you know who DOES NOT trifle with electricity?
>
> Electricians.
>
> They know better.

I only got that chance a number of years later. Where I once slapped the
hand of a teacher away which (I thought) was reaching towards the open(!)
work he had to mark and was conneced to the 220v mains.

I have to give it to him though, he only looked sideways at me (I only now
realise a bit amused, not funny) but did not say a word when I stumbled over
my haste to explained why I did it.

Yes, I started life as an electrician. :-)

But to be honest, I would not have trusted a few of my thanwhile classmates
with a 9 volt battery, let alone 220v mains. Their idea of "Funny" was to
charge a few 10-thousands of uF (half the size of a fuzzy drink) with an
high enough voltage and try to touch others with it. A kind of of a one
(big!) zap taser.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 10:30:24 +0100
"R.Wieser" <add...@not.available> wrote:

> Their idea of "Funny" was to
> charge a few 10-thousands of uF (half the size of a fuzzy drink) with
> an high enough voltage and try to touch others with it. A kind of
> of a one (big!) zap taser.

Luckily the contact terminals are close together. Otherwise,
possibly fatal.

Cybe R. Wizard
--
I am an expert of electricity. My father occupied the chair of applied
electricity at the state prison.
W. C. Fields

[Dan Purgert]

Diesel wrote:
> Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net>
> news:slrnq43ol...@xps-linux.djph.net Fri, 18 Jan 2019 14:29:03
> GMT in alt.os.linux, wrote:
>
>> Diesel wrote:
>>> [...]
>>> Watching him publish hello world programs as he went through
>>> online tutorials for programming Android devices was hilarious
>>> from my point of view; that being, decades of actual programming
>>> experience on a wide variety of platforms. Not scripts, but,
>>> actual programs that worked as intended, from scratch. No hand
>>> holding GUI, etc.
>>
>> I love me some AVR "Hello World" programs. Although I was a
>> stupid and got Microchip's new "1-series" boards, and they're not
>> the same as the older ATTinyx5's that I've been playing with.
>
> That's a little different. You are in some ways, learning the
> hardware and software relationship. Actual electronic components and
> how they function in a circuit as well. Useful knowledge to have.
> It's one of those things you actually can put to good use so called,
> later in life. lol.

heh, yeah. It was more "okay, I have this task that needs XYZ features
onboard, and I don't want to use a Mega328, because I know myself and
I'll try using its I/O pins, and then get myself into a bind with
addressing the SPI ones and ... OH hey, these ATTinyX16 chips look
perfect!"

And then finding out they are a complete bitch to work with.

>
>> I'm definitely a midroad programmer at best ... and it is quite
>> humbling when you have to sit and really rack your brain for how
>> to do "read this pin" when there aren't any tutorials out there.
>
> Welcome to the world of reverse engineering. [g] I feel your pain
> though. When I was learning the asic programming language (someone
> uploaded an antique version of it to my BBS one afternoon), it could
> be quite frustrating; because there weren't any programming tutorials
> in it specifically on any of the local boards I could access. When I
> got a shell account a bit later, I did find a few things, but, mostly
> incomplete material intended for a later version than I had of the
> language.

It's not so much "reverse engineering" so much as having come from
arduino where you can do something like

DDRB |= 0xFF;
PORTB |= (1<<PB5);

and it turns on the LED (for example).

The "1-series" chips don't use the same nomenclature, so it's a lot of
"I know how this is _supposed_ to work, why the hell are you telling me
it's undefined ?!" (RTFM _again_) "Ugh, why on earth did you get rid of
the data direction registers!?"

Ends up that you have to do this now:

PORTB_DIRSET |= (1<<5);
PORTB_OUT |= (1<<5);


> [...]

>> Maybe I should make one. Eventually. When I suck less, so I'm not
>> just one more example of "bad tutorial on the internet".
>
> I haven't seen your work, so really couldn't comment at this point.
> Despite this, I doubt it's as bad as you're making it appear to be.
> It certainly can't be any worse than reading one or more of Arlens
> examples.

If it's *that* bad, I should probably return my computer to Dell.

Mosty, I tend to get too far "into the weeds" as it were, and the
writing ends up more dense than helpful.

[Dan Purgert]

Diesel wrote:
> [...]

> You may infact just suffer from stubborn ignorance. It's a curable
> condition as well, just takes a bit longer.

And possibly a clue-by-four.

> These long posts of yours, attacking various posters, doesn't serve
> you any useful purpose. Time is better spent continuing with your

Serves to give us more chances for having side conversations, such as
the one concerning microcontrollers.

> [...] You need to remember, communication via usenet wasn't intended

> to be for real time purposes. if you want that, pick up the phone or
> something.

Speaking of, did you see that "deltachat" program? Seems they're wanting
to do IM over SMTP...

[Dan Purgert]

Diesel wrote:
> Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net>
> news:slrnq4bdm...@xps-linux.djph.net Mon, 21 Jan 2019 12:11:09
> GMT in alt.os.linux, wrote:
>
>> Diesel wrote:
>>> Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net>
>>> news:slrnq43qj...@xps-linux.djph.net Fri, 18 Jan 2019
>>> 15:01:53 GMT in alt.comp.freeware, wrote:
>>>
>>>> Diesel wrote:
>>>>> arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com>
>>>>> news:q1rk2t$agb$1...@news.mixmin.net
>>> [...]
>>> Maybe a slight case of insanity, or, you get some form of
>>> enjoyment watching Arlen squirm? I know I do. :)
>>
>> Schadenfreude is a powerful force...
>>
>> (aside, ugh, goddammit slrn, you're not supposed to write the
>> messageid like that ... )
>
> Don't blame your client on the messageid line wrap issue. It could be
> mine. I've forced my client, at virtual gunpoint (take that
> Anoncoward, I'll blast my usenet client in the fucking face if it
> says no. NO mercy, .357 right in the fucking face!!! uber uber)

I thought I had configured it to send messages as
"slrnbl...@djph.net" (i.e. without the "dan@xps-linux" portion).
Guess I didn't ... or I trashed my .slrnrc file when I was trying to
unfuck gpg2.

(speaking of, goddammit gnu, your "needs to use the agent all the time"
thing is fucking pottering-level horseshit.)

>>> Arduino is just uber cool. I wish things like that existed when I
>>> was a kiddo.
>>
>> IKR! My point though was that it (the IDE anyway) makes
>> programming the boards relatively trivial.
>>
>> Not good enough to use makefiles / avrdude / etc. by hand yet,
>> though I have moved away from the Arduino IDE to Microchip's; so I
>> can start playing around with their new (non-compatible with
>> Arduino) "1-series" ATTiny chips.
>
> Sweet.. Still, IDE or not, Arduino is fun to play with. I wouldn't
> have any issue personally if you shared source code or design layouts
> or what not related to it. We might want to use another newsgroup for
> that, but, I wouldn't mind. I don't consider it hello world grade
> newbie bullshit, fwiw, either.

The "hello-world newbie bullshit" is the Arduino IDE and their pre-made
libraries (not to mention program stubs, such as "blink"). But then
again, their pre-made libraries are geared toward "non-programmer
hobbiests", so it has to be simple enough as to not scare them away.

It's slow going with the new ones, since (1) everyone loves assembler
apparently AND (2) The logic on this devboard is backwards to my normal
way of thinking AND (3) kiddo

>
>> Oh good. I didn't want to have to write you off as one of _them_.
>
> Nah. I did some very immature things for a few years in the late 90s,
> early 00. Wrote some rather nasty code of a self replicating nature

Ah, so *you* gave Pottering the idea to worm his way into every project
imagineable! The horror! :)

As for virulent code, well, we all have to learn somehow. In my case,
it happens to be model train controllers.

> along with some very choice comments in a vx interview and on usenet
> concerning the work. I'm sure the Anoncoward (it's a stalking groupie
> of sorts, they really want me; I hope it's a girl...one can never
> quite tell these days until it could be too late) will be around here
> to share some posts describing what I did, and all kinds of things I
> didn't do as well (it's really not picky) Just give them a little
> time. They've gotta put just the right snippits together. [g]

(S)he/it is killfiled, so ...

>
>> Computer we had when I was six was a Commodore 64. I didn't
>> really _do_ much on it though. Best I had accomplished was
>> copying a game from a book. I think it was a "learn to program"
>> book or something, that by the end you had a working game. Or
>> something like that.
>
> The first computer I owned was the Tandy Color Computer 3. Aka, the
> Coco3. The Commodore 64 was superior to it in some aspects. I
> wouldn't have minded an Amiga based system though. Despite Amiga
> having the least in common with any of the other two in so far as a
> gateway to the PC world. by PC, I mean Intel compatible.

Well, it's the first computer I had access to, not that I "owned" --
that was a self-built affair somewhere between 2000 and 2003.

>
>> I just remember a lot of
>>
>> 10 DO THING
>> 20 NEXT THING
>> 30 IF OTHERTHING THEN
>> 40 GOTO 400
>> 50 ELSE ...
>
> And hoping there aren't any typos in the printed source code as you
> continue keying it all in.

Nah, I was just happily copying along, without a care in the world. For
all I know, it was actually a virus to try computing the nuclear launch
codes for WOPR (not that said C64 had any way of communicating those
codes back...)

>> [...]

>> Heh, that's actually what I'm playing with right now -- there's a
>> model train control system based around PIC microcontrollers,
>> wherein the micro programming isn't open; but the guy who wrote it
>> freely gave away the external PC-to-microcontroller comms protocol
>> (based on RS485).
>>
>> There _is_ an arduino-based rewrite, and while it works out pretty
>> well, the approach is a bit convoluted. Or maybe I just don't
>> understand the brilliance of it :)
>
> You like model trains too? I had several when I was a kiddo myself. I
> was really into them. I was into anything that ran on electricity
> though, batteries or plugged in. I had to know how it worked. The
> first time a good bite knocked me clear across the room, I had to
> know HOW AND WHY it did that. A normal kid I think would have not
> touched another screwdriver and gone anywhere near something like
> that again. Not me. I was hooked. [g]

Yep. The original work was Bruce Chubb's "C/MRI" ("Computer / Model
Railroad Interface"), which is still in production, but the only flaw is
that the microcontroller code is unavailable (I don't blame him, there
was no concept of "open source" in the 1980s).

The arduino rewrite works, but is based around one of the ATMega chips
that has (IIRC) 16 I/O pins on-die, which makes the logic of the code a
bit more convoluted than I like; as they have to determine whether or
not the data being returned is destined for the first 2 bytes, or needs
some offset to get to the right I/O expander over SPI.

And that one also requires that you're comfortable with reprogramming
each microcontroller for its specific position; which isn't necessarily
a bad thing, but I think that if I can get my version to behave more
like the original, it'd be easier overall (and if other
non-programmer-types wanted to use it).

>
>> No, when I could open a directory containing say a dozen documents
>> and by selecting all of them (e.g. with ctrl+a), could use the
>> "print" option from the right-click context menu and get all 12 of
>> them to print without needing to open each document individually.
>
> Oh, Okay. I gotcha. I remember writing a pile of Lprint ,port, value,
> text string, etc commands to my first printer. The coco3 didn't use a
> mouse unless you were running a very specific program to do it. And,
> with 128k total of memory and floppy or cassette as your only data
> storage options, you didn't do much gui based printing. [g]

Haha, yeah, a few minor differences between Win 9x on an IBM-clone, and
that Tandy.

>>
>> I keep meaning to get a dot-matrix and greenbar, for reasons.
>
> They can still be handy today.

Yeah, like making music!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pG8RAbWs1yo

[Jasen Betts]

On 2019-01-23, Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net> wrote:
> Diesel wrote:
>> [...]
>> You may infact just suffer from stubborn ignorance. It's a curable
>> condition as well, just takes a bit longer.
>
> And possibly a clue-by-four.
>
>
>> These long posts of yours, attacking various posters, doesn't serve
>> you any useful purpose. Time is better spent continuing with your
>
> Serves to give us more chances for having side conversations, such as
> the one concerning microcontrollers.
>
>> [...] You need to remember, communication via usenet wasn't intended
>> to be for real time purposes. if you want that, pick up the phone or
>> something.
>
> Speaking of, did you see that "deltachat" program? Seems they're wanting
> to do IM over SMTP...

SMTP historically supported IM with the "SEND" command.
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc821 section 3.4
There doesn't seem to be much (any?) support for that any more,
also that's not what deltachat is doing, they just doing IM over email.

This could be a shake-up for the email-box industry. Big players like
Alphabet, Verizon, and Microsoft like to play silly games with email
sources. but it seems more likely that those three will squash this
instead (also all three have competing products).

--
When I tried casting out nines I made a hash of it.

[Dan Purgert]

Ah, then i misinterpreted what they were doing ...

[arlen holder]

On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 00:32:46 -0600, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:

> I've never claimed that your 'facts' are wrong;

Cybe R Wizard,

*You prove my point of your worthlessness in every post, Cybe R Wizard.*

Cybe R Wizard,
1. Your type of worthless drivel never adds _any_ value to any thread.
2. In fact, your posts, Cybe R Wizard, add _negative_ value.
3. Hence, alienating you is a "good thing" since you can't post value.

Cybe R Wizard,
You prove your utter incomprehensible lack of value in every post.

[Dan Purgert]

arlen holder wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 00:32:46 -0600, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
>
>> I've never claimed that your 'facts' are wrong;
>

> arlen holder,
>
> *You prove my point of your worthlessness in every post, arlen holder.*
>
> arlen holder,

> 1. Your type of worthless drivel never adds _any_ value to any thread.

> 2. In fact, your posts, arlen holder, add _negative_ value.

> 3. Hence, alienating you is a "good thing" since you can't post value.
>

> arlen holder,

> You prove your utter incomprehensible lack of value in every post.

ftfy. hth. hand.

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 20:41:28 -0000 (UTC)
arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 00:32:46 -0600, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
>
> > I've never claimed that your 'facts' are wrong;
>
> Cybe R Wizard,
>
> *You prove my point of your worthlessness in every post, Cybe R
> Wizard.*
>
> Cybe R Wizard,
> 1. Your type of worthless drivel never adds _any_ value to any thread.

There;s always value is showing liars to be liars.

Therefore, here is one of your lies, claiming to have personally written
TEN THOUSAND tutorials:
Message-ID: <po4626$vpu$1...@news.mixmin.net>

> 2. In fact, your posts, Cybe R Wizard, add _negative_ value.

Negative toward you, I will readily admit. Shut me up. Go ahead; you
know how. I've explicitly told you haw. Just do it.

> 3. Hence, alienating you is a "good thing" since you can't post value.

You fail once again, then.
You haven't alienated me, Ardline, if fact, just the opposite. I am
closer and closer to you daily, living right there inside your head
each time you admit to yourself that I am right about you being a
liar. You /KNOW/ that it's true.

>
> Cybe R Wizard,
> You prove your utter incomprehensible lack of value in every post.

The great value of showing liars to be liars is ongoing and at least an
honest endeavor. That it is incomprehensible TO /YOU/ is pretty
telling, too.

Cybe R. Wizard
--
“Maybe you're dead inside and don't even know it.”
Bryant McGill, Simple Reminders: Inspiration for Living Your
Best Life

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 20:49:28 -0000 (UTC)
Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net> wrote:

> arlen holder wrote:
> > On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 00:32:46 -0600, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
> >
> >> I've never claimed that your 'facts' are wrong;
> >
> > arlen holder,
> >
> > *You prove my point of your worthlessness in every post, arlen
> > holder.*
> >
> > arlen holder,
> > 1. Your type of worthless drivel never adds _any_ value to any
> > thread. 2. In fact, your posts, arlen holder, add _negative_ value.
> > 3. Hence, alienating you is a "good thing" since you can't post
> > value.
> >
> > arlen holder,
> > You prove your utter incomprehensible lack of value in every post.
>
> ftfy. hth. hand.
>

Well done!

(but you forgot FOAD there at the end)

Cybe R. Wizard
--
My other gun shoots fadeaway

[Rene Lamontagne]

Hey Cybe, Whilst your there inside his head maybe you can rattle up his
one and a half brain cells, might help, but again maybe not, but thanks
for trying. :-)

Rene

[Cybe R. Wizard]

I appreciate your support. I /AM/ trying to get him to grow up and be a
man about his lying, but is seeming pretty hopeless. He really is far
gone.

Cybe R. Wizard
--
When I was growing up, my family was so poor we couldn't afford to pay
attention.
Mr. T

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On 23 Jan 2019 22:06:01 GMT
Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2019-01-23, Cybe R. Wizard <cybe_r...@WizardsTower.invalid>

> You're wasting your time with him. He's a lost cause.
>
Hope springs eternal. I am an optimist most times.
I /almost/ believe in him.

...but then:
"A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence."
David Hume

Cybe R. Wizard
--
Optimism - the doctrine or belief that everything is beautiful,
including what is ugly.
Ambrose Bierce

[Dan Purgert]

Are you willing to risk up to 2/3 of his mental capacity? Could prove
disastrous, what with getting new threads concerning

*BRILLIANT method of communicating with people remotely
(aka a telephone)

*ASTOUNDING method of sending text instantly to other people
(aka email)

*AMAZING method for allowing disparate devices to share data
(802.3 and 802.11)

[Dan Purgert]

Who ever said you were wise? :-p

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 00:07:47 -0000 (UTC)
Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net> wrote:

> Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
> > On 23 Jan 2019 22:06:01 GMT
> > Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
> >
> >> You're wasting your time with him. He's a lost cause.
> >>
> > Hope springs eternal. I am an optimist most times.
> > I /almost/ believe in him.
> >
> > ...but then:
> > "A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence."
> > David Hume
>
> Who ever said you were wise? :-p
>

I thought it to be obvious that I am /NOT/ proportioning my belief to
the evidence and so assuredly am not wise if I am still thinking him to
be salvageable.

! ! ! :-\

Cybe R. Wizard -always thinkin' )
--
Bunkrapt:
"Biologist Peter Medawar coined the term bunkrapt to describe believers
in things lacking a scientific basis, like immortal souls, loving gods
or quantum consciousness fields pervading the cosmos."

[Rene Lamontagne]

On 01/23/2019 6:27 PM, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 00:07:47 -0000 (UTC)
> Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net> wrote:
>
>> Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
>>> On 23 Jan 2019 22:06:01 GMT
>>> Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> You're wasting your time with him. He's a lost cause.
>>>>
>>> Hope springs eternal. I am an optimist most times.
>>> I /almost/ believe in him.
>>>
>>> ...but then:
>>> "A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence."
>>> David Hume
>>
>> Who ever said you were wise? :-p
>>
> I thought it to be obvious that I am /NOT/ proportioning my belief to
> the evidence and so assuredly am not wise if I am still thinking him to
> be salvageable.
>
> ! ! ! :-\
>
> Cybe R. Wizard -always thinkin' )
>

Pretty sad, If he had at least *two* brain cells they might mate and
produce more little brain cells. But as it stands there's not much hope
for the poor lad, I'm afraid he's over the edge. :-(

Rene

[Cybe R. Wizard]

"SPARKLING option for sliding files
(ice)

NIMBLE-WITTED choice for long tern file archiving
(paper/pen)

WIZARDLY alternative to Usenet
(newspaper readers' opinion letters to the editor)

ENLIGHTENED preference for energy efficient mass data transfer
(books)

This is fun!

Cybe R. Wizard
--
Strength through Unity.
Unity through faith.
(deprecated)
Adam Sutler

[Dan Purgert]

Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 00:07:47 -0000 (UTC)
> Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net> wrote:
>> > ...but then:
>> > "A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence."
>> > David Hume
>>
>> Who ever said you were wise? :-p
>>
> I thought it to be obvious that I am /NOT/ proportioning my belief to
> the evidence and so assuredly am not wise if I am still thinking him to
> be salvageable.

Good news, by adnitting your own human fallibility, you've passed the
Turing Test.

And have also proven you're not a lizardman.

[Dan Purgert]

Wait,wait ... no - theyre _children_ only engaging in *chit-chat* and
not adding /value/ to the tribe.

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 02:00:42 -0000 (UTC)
Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net> wrote:

> Good news, by adnitting your own human fallibility, you've passed the
> Turing Test.
>
> And have also proven you're not a lizardman.

;-]

No, no, W.

That is, W, which is to say Wizardman!

Cybe R. Wizard -look, up in the sky. It's a bird!
--
Have the courage to say no. Have the courage to face the truth. Do the
right thing because it is right. These are the magic keys to living
your life with integrity.
W Clement Stone

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 20:58:12 -0600

"Cybe R. Wizard" <cybe_r...@WizardsTower.invalid> wrote:

> On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 02:00:42 -0000 (UTC)
> Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net> wrote:
>
> > Good news, by adnitting your own human fallibility, you've passed
> > the Turing Test.
> >
> > And have also proven you're not a lizardman.
>
> ;-]
>
> No, no, W.
>
> That is, W, which is to say Wizardman!
>
> Cybe R. Wizard -look, up in the sky. It's a bird!

Oh, and BTW, thanks for noticing.

Cybe R. Wizard
--
"My mother was a test tube, my father was a knife,"
Majorie "Friday" Baldwin, "Friday" by Robert Heinlein

[Jasen Betts]

Don't.

From what he's written here I have the follwing understanding.

"The funnel" is his strategy to stop detractors from
"spoiling" his main thread with the truth, he does this by trolling in
the undesirable (to him) offshoots.

"The mirror" is his childish "tit-for-tat" response to any perceived
slight with insults and silly demands. "the mirror" is not subject
to review or appeal. There are no appologies to those falsely accused.
Even a child can be expected to appologise, this behaviour is
infantile.

The guy's a troll plain and simple.



I'm sure fun could be has by messing with the "References:" headers

[arlen holder]

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 02:00:42 -0000 (UTC), Dan Purgert wrote:

> And have also proven you're not a lizardman.

Hi Dan Purgert,

Moving on to the third reputed iOS SMB client in the list,
o iFiles 2
<https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/ifiles-2-file-manager-cloud/id1104795347?mt=8>

It's a $7 app so it doesn't fit the problem set.

Moving on to the fourth reputed iOS SMB client in the list,
o File Hub by imoreapps
<https://itunes.apple.com/app/file-hub-powerful-intuitive-file-manager/id730843281>

1. I open the File Hub (by imoreapps) first
2. At top left is a button called "Cloud Files" which I click
3. A "Cloud Files" section opens with a "+" button, which I click
4. An "Add Server" selection opens with "Windows SMB" which I click
5. A "Go Premium" form pops up asking for $5
Below that is a dead button for "Accessing Samba/NAS Server".

So that's two more SMBv2/v3 failures on iOS.
o iFiles 2 = FAIL
o File Hub by imoreapps = FAIL

[arlen holder]

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 07:50:52 -0000 (UTC), arlen holder wrote:

> So that's two more SMBv2/v3 failures on iOS.
> o iFiles 2 = FAIL
> o File Hub by imoreapps = FAIL

Oops. Cancel that.

All of Dan Purgert's posts are the same, so I posted this to the wrong
thread (he _never_ says _anything_ of any on-topic technical value).

Mea culpa.

I'm done posting to this thread - so I apologize for responding to Dan.

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 07:56:47 -0000 (UTC)
arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:

> I'm done posting to this thread -

Please, let that be the case for all threads.

Cybe R. Wizard
--
We lie loudest when we lie to ourselves.
Eric Hoffer

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 07:56:47 -0000 (UTC)
arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:

> Mea culpa.

See how easy that is? It would be just as easy for you to admit that
you've lied all along about writing TEN THOUSAND tutorials in
Message-ID: <po4626$vpu$1...@news.mixmin.net>.

Go on; you can do it. Man up and admit you lied.

The instant that you show a viable list of TEN THOUSAND tutorials that
YOU have written I will shut up about it, I guarantee and promise.

Be a man and 'fess up to being a liar otherwise.

Failing to do either, you are just and only a liar. ...and not much of
a man, either.

Cybe R. Wizard
--
Saying that Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying
that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders
<Alanna>

[Dan Purgert]

Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 07:56:47 -0000 (UTC)
> arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm done posting to this thread -
>
> Please, let that be the case for all threads.

And channels, in general.

[Dan Purgert]

Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 07:56:47 -0000 (UTC)
> arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:
>
>> Mea culpa.
>
> See how easy that is? It would be just as easy for you to admit that

Except immediately before, he lied again.

I think that this propane (gaseous) I have is considerably thicker than
the veracity of arlen's statement.

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 11:54:09 -0000 (UTC)
Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net> wrote:

> Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
> > On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 07:56:47 -0000 (UTC)
> > arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I'm done posting to this thread -
> >
> > Please, let that be the case for all threads.
>
> And channels, in general.
>

...and life in particular.

Cybe R. Wizard
--
He who is false to the present duty breaks a thread in the loom, and
you will see the effect when the weaving of a life-time is unraveled.
William Ellery Channing

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 13:39:49 -0000 (UTC)
Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net> wrote:

> Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
> > On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 07:56:47 -0000 (UTC)
> > arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Mea culpa.
> >
> > See how easy that is? It would be just as easy for you to admit
> > that
>
> Except immediately before, he lied again.
>
> I think that this propane (gaseous) I have is considerably thicker
> than the veracity of arlen's statement.
>

Yes, but he did admit to at least one lie. THat's a start and in the
right direction. We might yet make a real adult man of him.

Cybe R. Wizard
--
I think part of being an adult is leaving the fairytale behind.
Rashida Jones

[arlen holder]

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 00:02:12 -0000 (UTC), Dan Purgert wrote:

> Are you willing to risk up to 2/3 of his mental capacity? Could prove
> disastrous, what with getting new threads concerning

Facts.

As I claimed prior, there can only be three possibilities:
a. Either people really _are_ that incredibly stupid, or,
b. They are simply pulling our leg for their own Usenet amusement, or
c. They really are left-side Dunning Kruger poster children...

Facts.

Here is another case, where nospam _claims_ functionality that simply
doesn't appear to exist, which is an indication of left-side DK, unless
o It's simply that nospam is incredibly stupid, or,
o It's simply that nospam is just making everything up for his own
amusement

If he's
a. Not incredibly stupid, or if he's
b. Not just pulling our leg, then...

What other explanation is there for his wholly unjustified claims?

The fact is that nospam repeatedly claims that something as trivially
simple as the existence of a free non-crippled smbv2 client exists for iOS
(non jailbroken) - and yet - after testing - nobody can find a _single_ one
that actually exists!
o Do you know of a free iOS SMBv2 (or SMBv3) client?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.ipad/1OY2fExXxaM>

The left-side Dunning-Kruger folks simply _guess_ about everything!
Their entire belief system is wholly imaginary!

It's sad, and utterly shocking that such people exist - but - that thread
proves that they do exist, amazingly so.
o They actually _believe_ what they claim, and yet,
o They can almost _never_ back up their claims.

And yet, amazingly, they _still_ believe their fanciful claims!

Only three possibilities exist that I know of to explain nospam's actions
1. Either he's really that incredibly stupid, or,
2. He's just making things up for his own personal childish amusement, or
3. He really _believes_ what he says (i.e., he's a lemon-juice bank-robber poster child)

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 21:38:20 -0000 (UTC)
arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:

> Facts.

Are decidedly /NOT/ your forte.

>
> As I claimed prior, there can only be three possibilities:

YOur claiming a thing does /NOT/ make that thing true.

> a. Either people really _are_ that incredibly stupid, or

Some people are. Looking right at /YOU/.

,
> b. They are simply pulling our leg for their own Usenet amusement, or

While that would be simplicity, itself, such is not necessarily the
case here.

> c. They really are left-side Dunning Kruger poster children...

The Dunning/Kruger effect is just that, a psychological EFFECT which is
not graphed or even graph-able. To insist (as you continually do) on a
left side/right side differentiation shows your own cognitive bias of
your questionable competence. The D/K effect concerns ignorance vs
learned-ness, not intelligence.
Read up a little. I did so and learned something:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

Cybe R. Wizard -still not so sure
--
"The Enemies of Truth. — Convictions are more dangerous enemies of
truth than lies."
Friedrich Nietzsche

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 15:54:43 -0600

"Cybe R. Wizard" <cybe_r...@WizardsTower.invalid> wrote:

> The Dunning/Kruger effect is just that, a psychological EFFECT which
> is not graphed or even graph-able.

Such proves not to be the case:
https://graphpaperdiaries.com/2017/08/20/the-real-dunning-kruger-graph/

Cybe R. Wizard
--
The idea that education will lead to a lessening of bigotry is just
factually incorrect.
Reza Aslan

[Dan Purgert]

Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 15:54:43 -0600
> "Cybe R. Wizard" <cybe_r...@WizardsTower.invalid> wrote:
>
>> The Dunning/Kruger effect is just that, a psychological EFFECT which
>> is not graphed or even graph-able.
>
> Such proves not to be the case:
> https://graphpaperdiaries.com/2017/08/20/the-real-dunning-kruger-graph/
>

So, pretty much, in a given subset of people (say alt.os.linux), the
lower half of people will overestimate their capacity for $whatever, the
third quarter will hover on-par with their skill, and the top quarter
will underestimate.

Hm, fun stuff.

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 23:08:39 -0000 (UTC)
Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net> wrote:

> Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
> > On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 15:54:43 -0600
> > "Cybe R. Wizard" <cybe_r...@WizardsTower.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> The Dunning/Kruger effect is just that, a psychological EFFECT
> >> which is not graphed or even graph-able.
> >
> > Such proves not to be the case:
> > https://graphpaperdiaries.com/2017/08/20/the-real-dunning-kruger-graph/
> >
>
> So, pretty much, in a given subset of people (say alt.os.linux), the
> lower half of people will overestimate their capacity for $whatever,
> the third quarter will hover on-par with their skill, and the top
> quarter will underestimate.
>
> Hm, fun stuff.
>

That would appear to be the case at first sight but I'm pretty sure it
only really applies to 'lay' people. Any group of non-random folks
better educated to begin with (fans of <anything>, tech groups,
OS-focused groups, train groups, etc.) will have a deviated curve
without the high degree of overconfidence within that knowledge set.

At least that's what it seems to me it would have to be like, but then
I'm no expert and therefore am very likely to have already
overestimated my own abilities. ;-}

OTOH, Bubba and his buddies down on the bayou aren't ever gonna
intentionally 'larn anythin' and so will always permanently reside on
the low education, overconfident-about-everything level. You know,
intuitive rocket surgeons. Might I suggest that they might be
MAGA[1]-capped?

This I know very well because I personally know (well, knew) Bubba and
his buddies down on the bayou.

+1 for fun stuff!

[1] Make Attorneys Get Attorneys

Cybe R. Wizard -has lived in New Orleans and Lafayette, LA
--
“Thinking too much leads to paralysis by analysis. It's important to
think things through, but many use thinking as a means of avoiding
action.”
Robert Herjavec
The Will To Win: Leading, Competing, Succeeding

[arlen holder]

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 23:37:58 -0600, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:

> That would appear to be the case at first sight but I'm pretty sure it
> only really applies to 'lay' people.

>> https://graphpaperdiaries.com/2017/08/20/the-real-dunning-kruger-graph/

I'm going to risk responding to you Cybe(r) Wizard (& Dan Purgert)
as an adult would - which - I realize - is likely an exercise in futility
(particulary because both of you play silly little semantic games).

The DK effect is a cognitive bias which is why I used 3 categories
to explain the type of responses that you, Diesel, Snit, nospam, etc.,
exhibit.

1. Either you really _are_ that incredibly stupid, or,
2. Perhaps you're constantly playing silly semantic games for amusement, or
3. You suffer greatly from what I call "left-side" DK effects.

What I meant by "left side" was clear to anyone who _comprehends" the
reputed DK effect, where, on what I call the "left side" (based on actual
skills):
o People with low abilities tend to overestimate their abilities
o And they tend to overestimate what it takes for others to attain their level of ability

On the right side of actual skills:
o People with high abilities tend to underestimate their abilities
o And they tend to underestimate what it takes for others to attain their level of ability

The folks in the middle ... tend to estimate more realistically,
according to the research papers I read when they first came out.

Notice two things that were consistent in all my posts (oh, shit, I just
realized I'm speaking to you, Cybe R. WIzard, the proven semantic troll),
so I had better say "most" of my posts or even "some" of my posts, just in
case I didn't ALWAYS in every single instance on Usenet say it precisely -
since you Cybe R Wizard play your idiot semantic games incessantly because,
well, because
o Either you really _are_ that incredibly stupid, or,
o You're just incessantly playing your childish semantic games, or,
o You actually _believe_ what you say - which makes you a left-side DK candidate.

So, notice the two consistent things I stated:
1. I gave THREE possible reasons, only one of which was outright stupidity
2. I always said "left side" when speaking about the DK effect

That's because the DK effect is not based on stupidity.
It's based on cognitive bias in self-assessment of skills.

Personally, it's my observation (oh shit, I'm dealing with Cybe R Wizard
the ultimate semantic idiot so I have to say that this is my guess, my
observation, my feeling, my assessment, my assumption, etc., since I'm
dealing with Cybe R Wizard who proves incessantly that he is an utter child
when it comes to casual Usenet conversation in that he plays a silly
semantic game which is _all_ he _can_ play - since he never (oh shit,
again, I have to realize I'm talking to Cybe R Wizard, the ultimate
semantic troll, so I have to say "almost never" comprehends the topic at
hand).

Jesus Christ. To even _try_ to converse with semantic trolls like you
proved time and again (scores of times this week alone ... oh shit, I'm
dealing with the ultimate semantic troll Cybe R Wizard, so I can't say
"scores of times" in a casual Usenet conversation because then Cybe R
Wizard will post incessantly that it was only "dozens of times" into
completely non-related threads - even threads I have no part of creating -
since Cybe R Wizard proves time and again to be the ultimate semantic
troll).

It turns out, Cybe R Wizard, it's impossible to talk to you, as if you are
an adult. I just don't have the skill set required to drop down to your
level.

I apologize. I just can't drop to your level and cover every semantic game
your tiny little childish brain can come up with. I just can't.

Suffice to say for "ADULTS" (i.e., not Cybe R Wizard, or Dan Purgert),
there is a _reason_ I kept distinguishing between THREE different
situations:
1. People who are truly stupid
2. People who are just pulling our leg
3. People who exhibit classic left-side DK cognitive bias

The question is which of those three are people like:
o Snit
o Char Jackson
o Rene Lamantagne
o Jasen Betts
o Wolf K
o Rudy Weiser
o Jolly Roger
o nospam
o Lewis
o haemactylus
o Alan Baker
o Alan Browne
o Tim Streater
o Dan Purgert
o Cybe R Wizard
o Diesel, Dustin Cook, and a host of other nyms
o etc.

A _classic_ situation is _this_ one by the way, where you have to wonder
whether Snit is (a) incredibly stupid, or (b) pulling our leg, or (c) he
really can't comprehend that he can't comprehend simple facts.

*VIDEO:*
o <https://youtu.be/7QaABa6DFIo>

*USENET:*
o <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/PZuec56EWB0/qSXecrnZAQAJ>

You tell me.
Is Snit, in that exact situation:
a. Incredibly stupid
b. Just pulling our leg
c. Or does he _really_ believe he showed "signal" strength?

HINT: Look at the Y axis of his graph.
Snit posted that video in over 400 Usenet posts.
Never _once_ did he even _look_ (or comprehend?) the Y axis.
And neither did Jolly Roger, nospam, or a host of the others on that list!

I can't comprehend such idiocy.
It boggles my mind in fact.

What I wonder is only which of the three they all prove to be:
a. Are they _really_ that incredibly stupid?
b. Or, are they just always making everything up?
c. Or do they really _believe_ what they write?

You tell me after watching that video & reading that (sad) thread.
(It's sad that people are _that_ incredibly wrong - and they don't even
realize it - yet - they post that even after you explain facts to them.)

[arlen holder]

On Thu, 24 Jan 2019 16:41:12 -0600, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:

>> The Dunning/Kruger effect is just that, a psychological EFFECT which
>> is not graphed or even graph-able.
>
> Such proves not to be the case:
> https://graphpaperdiaries.com/2017/08/20/the-real-dunning-kruger-graph/

I'm trying to comprehend _why_ people do what they prove to do.
o The question is a _serious_ question.

It's an age-old question of why they do what they do on Usenet.
1. Are they really _that_ stupid as what they write indicates they are?
2. Since nobody can be that stupid, maybe they're just playing games?
3. Or, perchance, do they actually _believe_ what they write? (OMG)

Bear in mind the goal is to _understand_ people like Snit, nospam, Jolly
Roger, Diesel, Dustin Cook, Char Jackson, Wolf K., Alan Baker, Tim
Streater, Alan Browne, Savageduck, Wade Garrett, BK at OnRamp,
Lloyd, Hemidactylus, Your Name, John Doe, Rene Lamantagne
Jasen Betts, Wolf K, Rudy Weiser, Good Guy, et al.

All the people in the list (& more) _constantly_ exhibit this trait:
1. Are they really that incredibly stupid (but who is _that_ dumb?)
2. Are they simply always pulling our leg (but for what gain?)
3. Or, do they actually _believe_ what they write?

I believe _this_ well-known real-world example, is classic to describe the
kind of people I'm trying to comprehend, in this case, Snit (along with
Jolly Roger, nospam, and most of the canonical Apple Apologists).

SITUATION:
o I tested iOS and found it incapable of a certain feature.
o I posted the facts to the iOS newsgroup
o For *hundreds* of posts in scores of threads, Snit posted otherwise
o The Apologist peanut gallery (e.g., JR, nospam, etc.) applauded Snit
o They all _thought_ they found 1 app which did what it just doesn't do
o I took one look at the app - and it was clear to me in 10 seconds they
were wrong.
o For hundreds upon hundreds (no kidding) of posts Snit declared he was
right

And yet ... never once ... did Snit (or the Apologists) even *LOOK* at the
Y-Axis!

I can only think of 3 possibilities for them always being wrong:
1. Either they really are that incredibly stupid (but who is _that_ dumb?)
2. Or, they're just playing childish silly games (but for what? Amusement?)
3. Or, they actually truly _believe_ what they say (left-side DK perhaps?)

*For Christs' sake, _nobody_ is _that_ incredibly stupid!*
And yet, for over 400 posts, Snit posted that video - even _after_ he was
proven wrong.

That it takes 10 seconds to prove almost everything they say to be wrong is
the scary part.
1. Are they really _that_ incredibly stupid? (but nobody is that stupid)
2. Are they just playing silly childish games? (for what amusement?)
3. Or, do they really _believe_ what they write? (which is where DK lies)

It's all about _comprehension_ of facts.

1. Read & _comprehend_ this <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DunningĄVKruger_effect>
2. Maybe even look at this <https://graphpaperdiaries.com/2017/08/20/the-real-dunning-kruger-graph/>
Then...
3. Watch the first minute of this video by Snit <https://youtu.be/7QaABa6DFIo>
4. Bearing in mind he posted over 400 Usenet posts referring to that video as depicting "fact"

Here is just one Usenet reference from Snit to that effect:
o It's a fact iOS devices can't even graph Wi-Fi signal strength over time
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/PZuec56EWB0/qSXecrnZAQAJ>

Now you tell me why someone would do what Snit did?
(Note: This is just one example of what those on the list do!)

What drives them to appear to be so incredibly stupid?
NOTE: I can't imagine that people really _are_ that incredibly stupid.
It must be something else; but what?

All the people in the list (& more) _constantly_ exhibit this trait:
1. Are they really that incredibly stupid (but who is _that_ dumb?)
2. Are they simply always pulling our leg (but for what gain?)
3. Or, do they actually _believe_ what they write?

[arlen holder]

On Sun, 20 Jan 2019 22:09:30 +0000 (UTC), Diesel wrote:

> You belittle and insult those (like myself) who could be of benefit
> to you, in so far as correctly answering technical questions and
> presenting useful problem solving skills. There's no advantage for
> you to use childish insults towards so many, Arlen.

Hi Diesel,
I have to _explain_ something to you that you do not _comprehend_ yet.

You add zero value to _any_ Usenet post. Zero. Nada. Zip. Nothing.
o You _can't_ add any value Diesel.
o You just can't.

Why?
o I don't know why.
o I think it can only be one or more of 3 possible reasons

The way I know this is simply that you prove me right in every post.
o You have never _once_ added value in any post I've read from you.
o Not once.

Hence, you have to understand both my strategy & tactics:
o When you post worthless drive to other threads, I ignore it.
o When you post worthless drivel to my threads, I confront you.

My strategy is to obtain answers; my tactics are simple:
1. I work the thread to obtain the answer, and,
2. I confront you childish bullying cowardly trolls.

What's the strangest thing, Diesel, is you _think_ alienating you is a
"bad" thing, but, it's actually a "good" thing.

I do not want you (and all the rest of the worthless trolls) to post to my
Q&A threads. Alienating you (and them) is a "good thing" since you (the
plural you) _never_ add any on-topic technical value.

Whom am I talking about who _never_ adds on-topic technical value?
o Snit, nospam, Jolly Roger, Dan Purgert, Cybe R Wizard, Char Jackson,
o Wolf K., Alan Baker, Tim Streater, Alan Browne, Savageduck, Wade Garrett,
o BK at OnRamp, Lloyd, Hemidactylus, Your Name, John Doe, Rene Lamantagne
o Jasen Betts, Wolf K, Rudy Weiser, Good Guy, Diesel, et al.

All of you prove me right in every one of your posts!
o The problem is that you _think_ you add value.
o And yet, you _prove_ you can't add value.

Hence, my tactics of alienating you is done to support my strategy.
o Since you can't ever add any value, I don't want you to waste our time

What happens, unfortunately, is that you trolls infest all threads.
Why?

I don't know why.
More importantly, why are you trolls _always_ worthless?

Again, I don't know why.
o All I know is that you prove, in every post, to be worthless.

You _claim_ knowledge you just do not have.
And, the proof is, that you will _never_ have that knowledge.
It's beyond your mental comprehension ability.

The only question is what makes your brain work the way it does?
o Are you all really _that_ incredibly stupid? (Nobody is that dumb!)
o Are you incessantly pulling our leg (But why? For what gain?)
o Or, do you simply lack the comprehension of almost everything?

Here's my current hypothesis on you trolls listed above:
1. I don't think _anyone_ can be as stupid as what you write indicates.
2. Even when I make it "less fun" for you, you still post your drivel.
3. Hence, I'm beginning to realize you lack basic comprehension skills.

You keep telling me, Diesel, for example, how "smart" you are
(e.g., how you write such wonderful code). You've said it time and again.

You keep deprecating my "hello world" skills for just one example.
And for another, you deprecate my FTP-networking skills.

I don't mind that, Diesel, since I never said once that I was
o A coding expert (heck, it's a "hello world" for Christs' sake)
o A networking expert (heck, I've said many times I'm not)

And yet, you, Diesel, and people like you, Diesel, e.g., Jolly Roger, Alan
Baker, et al. (the list above, and more), _constantly_ claim how "smart"
you are.

That's fine - but ... but ... but.
o You're almost always dead wrong!

Why is it that, for example, almost everything nospam says, I can prove
wrong in fewer than 10 seconds?
1. Nobody can be as stupid as people like nospam appear to be
2. But why would they be so wrong so many times (for fun?)
3. Hence, I'm belatedly realizing, they're left-side DK poster children

All of you I've named (and more), are almost always dead wrong.
And yet, you don't even _realize_ that you're dead wrong.

I don't think it's that you're stupid.
o Yes, you're all incredibly stupid.
o But nobody is that stupid as you all prove to be.

I don't even think you're just pulling our leg.
o Yes, you _love_ to see your name in print, but I don't think it's that.
o I don't think it's that because I make it "less fun" & you _still_ post!

I'm beginning to think you simply lack cognitive skills.
o You appear to lack the skills to realize that you lack skills
o All of you claim to be smarter than anyone thinks you are

Me?
o I've said many (many) times, I'm only of average IQ (if that).
o I ask questions _because_ I don't (yet) know the answers.

And, I back up my claims, with references when necessary.
For example...

While you deprecate my "coding" skills, I never claimed to have them!
o What you repeatedly deprecate, is a "hello world" for Christ's sake!
o Report: My first "hello world" using Android Studio freeware on Windows worked just fine (in about an hour)
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/aW64zYeBtF0>

And, while you deprecate my "networking skills", I never claim them either:
o Do these 3 WiFi tests of a network location to a drive letter mapping work for you on Android 7.0 Nougat & Windows 10 using only freeware?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/IswZ5yEcpYA/wWuqoICZBgAJ>

The main point is that there are (at least) two kinds of Usenet posters:
o Those who are like you, Diesel, who defy comprehension
o But who consistently can _never_ add even one iota of on-topic value
And...
o Those like Paul & Mike Easter and Marek Nobotny et al.
o Who do comprehend the problem set & who do offer viable solutions.

After having explained this, I doubt you will comprehend a single word.

[arlen holder]

On Mon, 21 Jan 2019 04:51:30 -0000 (UTC), Diesel wrote:

> Maybe a slight case of insanity, or, you get some form of enjoyment
> watching Arlen squirm? I know I do. :)

As an adult, I simply point out to others this statement you just made:
"you get some form of enjoyment watching Arlen squirm? I know I do"

WTF?
o Are you _really_ that incredibly childish, Diesel?
o Really? (I didn't think people could be _that_ unfathomably childish.)

What's odd is that you appear to utterly lack comprehension of this fact:
o I'm not "squirming" other than your mindset boggles that of mine
o All I need to do is point out your words - to prove they are that of a child

I don't even have to prove your motives are that of a child.
o You prove it yourself - all I do is point to your very own words.
o All of you prove, time and again, to own the mind of a child.

Why?
o Are you really as stupid as what you write makes you appear to be?
o Or, do you really revel in such worthless childish amusements?
o Or, do you simply completely lack the ability to comprehend anything?

I don't know the answer.

All I know is the following (and more) constantly prove my point:

o Snit, nospam, Jolly Roger, Dan Purgert, Cybe R Wizard, Char Jackson,
o Wolf K., Alan Baker, Tim Streater, Alan Browne, Savageduck, Wade Garrett,
o BK at OnRamp, Lloyd, Hemidactylus, Your Name, John Doe, Rene Lamantagne

o Jasen Betts, Wolf K, Rudy Weiser, Good Guy, Diesel, "joe", et al.