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The Jews who did not deny the Messiah
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Debunks2005  
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 More options Mar 8 2004, 12:39 pm
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
From: debunks2...@aol.com (Debunks2005)
Date: 08 Mar 2004 17:39:10 GMT
Local: Mon, Mar 8 2004 12:39 pm
Subject: The Jews who did not deny the Messiah
PERSPECTIVES
The Jews Who Did Not Deny Jesus

By Shira Sorko-Ram
Maoz Israel Report

Have you ever thought about all the Jews who did follow Jesus 2000 years ago?

CBN.com – We all know how Jesus mourned over Jerusalem, cursed Capernaum over
its indifference, and was chased out of His hometown of Nazareth and
unceremoniously asked to leave the Gadarenes.

From day one, the religious rulers of Israel were on his case. They abhorred
his healing on the Sabbath day. They resented the fact that his disciples did
not always carry out ceremonial washings before eating. Most of all they were
intensely jealous of Jesus' popularity. And they found insufferable the
possibility that their nation might turn to Him.

Moreover, Jesus hated the behavior of many of the scribes, Pharisees and
Sadducees. He condemned their love of fame and privilege, their desire to be
venerated, adulated and adored. He found their self-righteousness and their
ambition to keep power and position in their hands insufferable. He abhorred
their love of money, their stealing from the poor among the Jewish people and
their disregard of justice and true love of God.

But have we ever considered just how many Jewish citizens of Israel did love
and follow him during those three short years that he ministered in Israel,
healing the sick and preaching repentance from sin?

The Gospels tell us, as soon as Jesus began his full-scale ministry, He was
immediately surrounded by literally thousands of Jewish people. The New
Testament records some of the events that occurred while great multitudes
listened, watched and followed Him.

They came from every part of Israel and walked days to see Him. Clearly, the
multitudes were needy and spiritually hungry for the things of God.

As he taught and healed, the throngs grew and "there was a great multitude of
His disciples, and a great throng of people from all Judea and Jerusalem and
the coastal region of Tyre and Sidon [Lebanon],…and all the multitude were
trying to touch Him… Luke 6:17,19

How can we imagine the feelings of the poor and the hopeless among the Jewish
people who wanted to hear Him, but couldn't get close enough to do so… with
no microphones, speakers or auditoriums? Yet the multitudes continued to come.
They saw the sick healed and they said, "Nothing like this was ever seen in
Israel." Matt. 9:33

Because of the crowds, men of faith climbed a roof of somebody's house, tore it
apart, and let down a cot with a paralyzed man.

Because of the great crowds, Jesus got in a boat and taught the people on the
shore so that more could hear His voice.

His own family, totally bewildered by the mammoth crowds, did not know what to
make of Him.

And so the crowds continued, and the healings and teachings drew them to God:
"Great multitudes came to Him,…the multitude marveled at the healings and
miracles that the Lord performed, "and they glorified the God of Israel".

But just how big were these crowds? One of the two times we are given an actual
number, we are told that a multitude followed Jesus around for three whole days
in a desolate place - without food. Surely, then, this would have been one of
his smaller crowds. Yet we are told that there were 4,000 men - anywhere from
8-12,000 people following Jesus.

At times, Jesus tried to get away from the crowd to be by Himself, but the
multitudes wouldn't let Him. They followed Him everywhere. On one occasion, His
disciples advised Jesus to send a mass of people home. Again, they were in a
desolate place with no food. How many were in the crowd that Jesus Himself fed?
The record says 5,000 plus women and children - probably between 10,000 -
15,000.

Luke says that "so many thousands of the multitude gathered together they were
stepping on each other." 12:1 Another time, when Jesus reached the land by
boat, "…the multitude welcomed Him, for they had all been waiting for Him."
Luke 8:40

Imagine, waiting for a preacher or prophet to show up, not knowing when he
would arrive - with no McDonalds, no pampers, no public bathrooms, no hotels
nor motels. No water fountains, no paid vacation time. Nothing.

JESUS LOVED THESE CROWDS

When Jesus faced these huge, desperate crowds, compassion would well up inside
Him, because He knew that these people "were distressed and downcast, like
sheep without a shepherd." They were without true spiritual leaders. It was in
response to such a scene that He said, "The harvest is plentiful, but the
workers are few."

"Many therefore of the Jews [here, read Judeans - vs. Galileans] who had come
to Mary and beheld what He had done, believed in Him." John 11:45 In fact, so
many Judeans became His followers that the chief priests and the Pharisees
"convened a council, and were saying, 'What are we doing?… If we let Him go
on like this, all men will believe in Him." John 11:47-48

Among these throngs of the people of Israel were religious leaders who did
accept Jesus. Like Jairus, a Jewish synagogue official in Capernaum, who
received his daughter back from the grave. Like Nicodemus in Jerusalem, who
came at night to ask how to be born-again.

Then there were others who believed, but didn't act, just like today wherever
the Gospel is preached: "Nevertheless many even of the rulers believed in Him,
but because of the Pharisees they were not confessing Him, lest they should be
put out of the synagogue; for they loved the approval of men rather than the
approval of God." John 12:42-43

As Jesus' ministry grew towards its close, Jesus left Galilee for Judea and
crossed the Jordan River. Again, great crowds followed Him. The multitude
caused the blind man in Jericho to wonder what was going on. When he heard, he
instantly cried out, "Son of David [i.e. Messiah] have mercy on me." The
commotion caused a hungry man, Zaccheus, to climb a tree to see just who this
Man was.

THE PEOPLE LOVED JESUS

As He neared Jerusalem, Jesus stayed at different Jewish homes in Bethany -
Simon the (former) Leper, Lazarus the former dead man along with his sisters
Mary and Martha. Everywhere Jesus went, there were Jewish people who loved Him.

"And as the multitude followed Jesus up to Jerusalem, they spread their
garments in the road, and others were cutting branches from the trees, and
spreading them in the road. And the multitude going before Him, and those who
followed after were crying out, saying,

'Hosanna to the Son of David;
Blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord;
Hosanna in the highest!'" Matthew 21:8-9

Calling Him the Son of David meant they were calling him the Messiah, Root of
Jessie, the Inheritor of the Throne of David.

The Bible says that when Jesus entered Jerusalem for the last time, the city
was stirred as the multitude told everyone, "This is the prophet Jesus from
Nazareth in Galilee."

As Jesus continued to preach and teach, the multitudes stayed with Him - in the
Temple and everywhere He went. The chief priests, the scribes and the leading
men among the people tried to humiliate him by catching him with some spiritual
question that He couldn't answer. "They could not find anything that they might
do, for all the people were hanging upon His words." Luke 19:47-48

To make matters more intense, Jesus strongly warned the people of the
corruptness and hypocrisy of these same religious rulers. Finally, they had had
enough and were determined to get rid of the Man who threatened to put them out
of business.
But they had a problem. "When they sought to seize Him, they feared the
multitude, because they held Him to be a prophet." Mat. 22:15

"Then the chief priest and the elders of the people were gathered…and they
plotted together to seize Jesus by stealth and kill him. And they were saying,
"Not during the festival, lest a riot occur among the people." Matt. 26:3-4

WHY THEY CAME AT NIGHT

When the time came for His death, a great multitude with swords and clubs from
the chief priests and elders of the people came and arrested Him. Jesus asked
them why they came secretly at night to take Him…"Everyday I used to sit in
the temple teaching and you did not seize Me." Matt. 26:55 The reason, of
course, was that there were huge crowds of Jewish visitors during the Passover
season, and many of them believed He was sent from God - so much so, that the
religious leaders were afraid to arrest Him in daylight.

The multitude that clamored for Barabbas, is described as a multitude that was
rounded up by the chief priests and the elders, not the average man on the
street. Not the people who had laid the branches and clothes on the street and
welcomed Him to Jerusalem.

What could these simple citizens have done against such determined, evil men in
their government? Think of the laws that are passed today against God and His
Word in civilized countries, even with the millions of born-again believers
praying and working for morality and justice to prevail.

Hear the hopelessness in the voices of two Jewish men on the way to Emmaus as
they spoke about these events to Jesus, not knowing it was He: "Are you the
only one visiting Jerusalem and unaware of the things which have happened here
in these days? The things about Jesus the Nazarene, who was a prophet mighty in
deed and word in the sight of God and all the people, and how the chief priests
and our rulers delivered Him up to the sentence of death, and crucified Him.
But we were hoping that it was He who was going to redeem Israel." Luke 24:18,
21

We know that a short time after His crucifixion - 50 days to be exact - 3,000
Jews responded to Peter's message, and after that "the Lord was adding to their
number day by day those who were saved." Soon after, another 5,000 came to the
Lord. In fact, years later, the Apostles told Paul, "You see, brother, how many
thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed…." Acts 21:21

I remember reading years ago a book written by Abba Eban, Israel's former
ambassador to the UN and a scholar. He stated that at
...

read more »


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Ken McVay, OBC  
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 More options Mar 8 2004, 1:35 pm
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
From: "Ken McVay, OBC" <spamfr...@nizkor.org>
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:12:56 -0800
Local: Mon, Mar 8 2004 1:12 pm
Subject: Re: The Jews who did not deny the Messiah

"Debunks2005" <debunks2...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20040308123910.29604.00001111@mb-m21.aol.com...

> PERSPECTIVES
> The Jews Who Did Not Deny Jesus

Who is this "Jesus?"
Do you have forensic evidence that he existed?
Do you have medical reports of his autopsy?

...or are you simply falling back on that old canard, the eyewitness?


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Philip Mathews  
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 More options Mar 8 2004, 5:18 pm
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
From: "Philip Mathews" <philipmath...@comcast.net>
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 22:18:24 GMT
Local: Mon, Mar 8 2004 5:18 pm
Subject: Re: The Jews who did not deny the Messiah

"Ken McVay, OBC" <spamfr...@nizkor.org> wrote in message
news:c2id2h023jr@enews2.newsguy.com...

> "Debunks2005" <debunks2...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040308123910.29604.00001111@mb-m21.aol.com...
> > PERSPECTIVES
> > The Jews Who Did Not Deny Jesus

> Who is this "Jesus?"
> Do you have forensic evidence that he existed?
> Do you have medical reports of his autopsy?

> ...or are you simply falling back on that old canard, the

eyewitness?

Eyewitnesses writing 50-100 years after his death!

--
Philip Mathews

"Mankind have a great aversion to intellectual labor; but even
supposing knowledge to be easily attainable, more people would be
content to be ignorant than would take even a little trouble to
acquire it."

Samuel Johnson


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Ken McVay, OBC  
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 More options Mar 8 2004, 5:50 pm
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
From: "Ken McVay, OBC" <spamfr...@nizkor.org>
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:24:54 -0800
Local: Mon, Mar 8 2004 5:24 pm
Subject: Re: The Jews who did not deny the Messiah
"Philip Mathews" <philipmath...@comcast.net> wrote in message

news:Qi63c.210143$uV3.821145@attbi_s51...

You're kidding me, right? 50 to 100 years AFTER this guy's supposed "death,"
people claim to have SEEN it all?

Pull the other one, buddy.


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National Front  
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 More options Mar 9 2004, 1:29 am
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
From: nationalfron...@aol.comNoHoaxes (National Front)
Date: 09 Mar 2004 06:29:36 GMT
Local: Tues, Mar 9 2004 1:29 am
Subject: Re: The Jews who did not deny the Messiah

     I believe the word you're looking for is "religion."  You know, sort of
like those nuts who've turned The Holocaust™®© Industry into a religion.

NF
--
"The bris milah is not about sexual mutilation, but who but a sexually obsessed
neanderthal would think is was? I what what 'surprises' one might find on your
hard drive..."

--Sheldon Liberman, <sheldon.liber...@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <40435BA8.4030306@sympatico.ca>


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Debunks2005  
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 More options Mar 9 2004, 5:08 pm
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
From: debunks2...@aol.com (Debunks2005)
Date: 09 Mar 2004 22:08:02 GMT
Local: Tues, Mar 9 2004 5:08 pm
Subject: Re: The Jews who did not deny the Messiah

I haven't had the 'honor' of a response from you in ages, Mr. McVay.  How sad
and downright pathetic that you would choose to break you silence with the
posting of this infantile, ignorant rot.

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Debunks2005  
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 More options Mar 9 2004, 5:09 pm
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
From: debunks2...@aol.com (Debunks2005)
Date: 09 Mar 2004 22:08:55 GMT
Local: Tues, Mar 9 2004 5:08 pm
Subject: Re: The Jews who did not deny the Messiah

Well, there is a vast difference between 'these' eyewitnesses and your typical
holocaust 'eyewitness' - the Gospel writers were telling the truth.

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Roger  
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 More options Mar 9 2004, 5:15 pm
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
From: Roger <roger@ . >
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 22:03:07 GMT
Local: Tues, Mar 9 2004 5:03 pm
Subject: Re: The Jews who did not deny the Messiah
In one age, called the Second Age by some,
   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
      someone claiming to be Debunks2005 wrote
         in message <20040308123910.29604.00001...@mb-m21.aol.com>:

>PERSPECTIVES
>The Jews Who Did Not Deny Jesus

>By Shira Sorko-Ram
>Maoz Israel Report

Which violation of copyright has *what* to do with the historical
facts of the Holocaust and your mindless denial thereof?

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Debunks2005  
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 More options Mar 9 2004, 5:17 pm
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
From: debunks2...@aol.com (Debunks2005)
Date: 09 Mar 2004 22:16:23 GMT
Local: Tues, Mar 9 2004 5:16 pm
Subject: Re: The Jews who did not deny the Messiah

The attempt underway here, as I see it, is to replace Christ and Christianity
with the holocaust.  

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Philip Mathews  
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 More options Mar 9 2004, 5:30 pm
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
From: "Philip Mathews" <philipmath...@comcast.net>
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 22:30:31 GMT
Local: Tues, Mar 9 2004 5:30 pm
Subject: Re: The Jews who did not deny the Messiah

"Debunks2005" <debunks2...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20040309170855.22733.00001093@mb-m10.aol.com...

What eyewitnesses would that be, Bellinger?

--
Philip Mathews

"Mankind have a great aversion to intellectual labor; but even
supposing knowledge to be easily attainable, more people would be
content to be ignorant than would take even a little trouble to
acquire it."

Samuel Johnson


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Debunks2005  
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 More options Mar 9 2004, 6:09 pm
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
From: debunks2...@aol.com (Debunks2005)
Date: 09 Mar 2004 23:09:08 GMT
Local: Tues, Mar 9 2004 6:09 pm
Subject: Re: The Jews who did not deny the Messiah

Why don't you copyright your usual chant, Rogie?  LOL!

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Roger  
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 More options Mar 9 2004, 6:38 pm
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
From: Roger <roger@ . >
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 23:26:09 GMT
Local: Tues, Mar 9 2004 6:26 pm
Subject: Re: The Jews who did not deny the Messiah
In one age, called the Second Age by some,
   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
      someone claiming to be Debunks2005 wrote
         in message <20040309180908.06638.00000...@mb-m25.aol.com>:

>From: Roger roger@.  
>Date: 3/9/2004 2:03 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <abd98e5e1415c06dd82a31c15d1eb...@news.teranews.com>
>>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>>      someone claiming to be Debunks2005 wrote
>>         in message <20040308123910.29604.00001...@mb-m21.aol.com>:
>>>PERSPECTIVES
>>>The Jews Who Did Not Deny Jesus

>>>By Shira Sorko-Ram
>>>Maoz Israel Report
>>Which violation of copyright has *what* to do with the historical
>>facts of the Holocaust and your mindless denial thereof?
>Why don't you copyright your usual chant, Rogie?  LOL!

Why don't you respect the law and netiquette?

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Debunks2005  
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 More options Mar 11 2004, 3:40 am
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
From: debunks2...@aol.com (Debunks2005)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 08:39:24 GMT
Local: Thurs, Mar 11 2004 3:39 am
Subject: Re: The Jews who did not deny the Messiah

Phillip Friedman, for one?

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Debunks2005  
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 More options Mar 11 2004, 3:40 am
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From: debunks2...@aol.com (Debunks2005)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 08:40:13 GMT
Local: Thurs, Mar 11 2004 3:40 am
Subject: Re: The Jews who did not deny the Messiah

Netiquette?  I am not the one always calling people 'liars' or resorting to
profanity here.

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Roger  
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 More options Mar 11 2004, 5:12 am
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
From: Roger <roger@ . >
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:59:26 GMT
Local: Thurs, Mar 11 2004 4:59 am
Subject: Re: The Jews who did not deny the Messiah
In one age, called the Second Age by some,
   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
      someone claiming to be Debunks2005 wrote
         in message <20040311034013.20206.00001...@mb-m27.aol.com>:

No, but you *are* the one always violating copyright and posting off
topic articles which *you* have not even read.

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George B.  
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 More options Mar 11 2004, 9:53 am
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism, alt.religion.christian, alt.religion.scientology, talk.religion.course-miracle, soc.history.war.misc
From: bartel...@yahoo.com (George B.)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 06:53:20 -0800
Local: Thurs, Mar 11 2004 9:53 am
Subject: Re: The Jews who did not deny the Messiah
Holocaust enforcer, Director of the Nizkor-project "Ken McVay, OBC" <spamfr...@nizkor.org> wrote in message <news:c2id2h023jr@enews2.newsguy.com>...
> "Debunks2005" <debunks2...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040308123910.29604.00001111@mb-m21.aol.com...
> > PERSPECTIVES
> > The Jews Who Did Not Deny Jesus

> Who is this "Jesus?"
> Do you have forensic evidence that he existed?
> Do you have medical reports of his autopsy?

> ...or are you simply falling back on that old canard, the eyewitness?

### No, or at least I don't have seen them. I also do not have an
forensic examination on the murder weapon, the cross. All this is said
to have happened about 2000 years ago.
But then there are others that cannot present anything like that for
millions of alleged murders supposed to be commited in 'gas chambers'
60 years ago. And you know what: These people attack and smear anyone
who dares to question there story (something that is also side about
scientology).
----

At Babi Yar it is said the Germans massacred more then 30.000 people
without leaving a single trace of them:
http://vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndbabiyar.html
http://vho.org/GB/Books/dth/found.html
'gas chamber' - murder weapon? http://vho.org/GB/Books/trr/

Tell me what needs more faith to be believed:
The "HOLOCAUST" or the Resurrection of Christ?!


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Joebruno  
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 More options Mar 11 2004, 10:56 am
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
From: br...@indystart.com (Joebruno)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 07:56:15 -0800
Local: Thurs, Mar 11 2004 10:56 am
Subject: Re: The Jews who did not deny the Messiah

Here ya go,big shot. This is at least the 6th time I've posted this:

_Chronicle of Higher Education_, January 8, 1998.  P A6

HISTORICAL ASSOCIATION ISSUES STATEMENT DEPLORING EFFORTS TO DENY HOLOCAUST
     by Ellen K. Coughlin
        Chicago

 The governing council of the American Historical Association,
meeting at the group's annual conference here last week, unanimously
approved a statement condemning recent claims that the Nazi extermination
of Jews in WWII is a myth.
 "The AHA council strongly deplores the publicly reported
attempts to deny the Holocaust,"  the statement said.  "No serious
historican questions that the Holocaust took place."
 Over the past year, efforts by neo-Nazis and others to deny
the Holocaust--through such means as advertisements placed in student
newspapers--alarmed scholars.  Last fall, however, the 13-member AHA
council declined to issue a statement explicitly asserting the truth
of the Holocaust, largely because of the strong feeling of some of the
that the association should not be in the business of certifying
historical facts.  Instead, the council called on historians to
"encourage the study of the significance of the Holocaust."

Some 300 Signatures Collected

 The councils latest action, taken on the closing day of the
association's annual meeting, came in response to a groundswell of
support among historians at the conference for a more forceful
statement against the so-called "Holocaust revisionists."  Approximately
300 signatures were collected on a petition, circulated informally
at the conference, calling on the AHA council to take a public
position against attempts to deny the fact of the Holocaust.
 "If we'd had the time and the personnel, I think we could
have gotten 3,000 signatures."  said John W. Chambers, associate
professor of history at Rutgers University, who spearheaded the
petition effort.
 Mr. Chambers said many who signed the petition were alarmed
at the presence of people at the presence of people at the enterance
of the convention hotel handing out pamphlets purporting to refute
historical claims about the Nazi concentration camps.  Others at
the meeting expressed dismay at the AHA's council's earlier failure
to take a stronger stand against the revisionist position.


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Debunks2005  
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 More options Mar 11 2004, 3:53 pm
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
From: debunks2...@aol.com (Debunks2005)
Date: 11 Mar 2004 20:52:59 GMT
Local: Thurs, Mar 11 2004 3:52 pm
Subject: Re: The Jews who did not deny the Messiah

Some I have read in full, others I have glanced through and posted for purposes
of discussion.  So what?

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Philip Mathews  
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 More options Mar 11 2004, 7:06 pm
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
From: "Philip Mathews" <philipmath...@comcast.net>
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 00:06:46 GMT
Local: Thurs, Mar 11 2004 7:06 pm
Subject: Re: The Jews who did not deny the Messiah

"Debunks2005" <debunks2...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20040311033924.20206.00001343@mb-m27.aol.com...

So you have no eyewitnesses! That would indeed make them different
from actual eyewitnesses.

--
Philip Mathews

"Mankind have a great aversion to intellectual labor; but even
supposing knowledge to be easily attainable, more people would be
content to be ignorant than would take even a little trouble to
acquire it."

Samuel Johnson


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Discussion subject changed to "Nizkor Project Director Engaging in Christ Denial and Anti-Christism? aka Re: The Jews who did not deny the Messiah" by Fred Ziffel
Fred Ziffel  
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 More options Mar 11 2004, 10:00 pm
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism, can.general, alt.religion.christian.presbyterian, alt.religion.christian.lutheran, alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic, alt.religion.christian.pentecostal, alt.religion.christian, alt.religion.christian.biblestudy
From: Fred Ziffel <fred_zif...@GreenAcresRFD12.net>
Date: 12 Mar 2004 03:00:06 GMT
Local: Thurs, Mar 11 2004 10:00 pm
Subject: Nizkor Project Director Engaging in Christ Denial and Anti-Christism? aka Re: The Jews who did not deny the Messiah
From: "Ken McVay, OBC" <spamfr...@nizkor.org>
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: The Jews who did not deny the Messiah
Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:12:56 -0800
Organization: The Nizkor Project http://www.nizkor.org
Lines: 13
Message-ID: <c2id2h023jr@enews2.newsguy.com>
References: <20040308123910.29604.00001111@mb-m21.aol.com>
http://groups.google.com/groups?safe=images&ie=ISO-8859-1&as_umsgid=c2id2h0 2...@enews2.newsguy.com&lr=&hl=en
(Archived locally as: McVayAnti-Christic_1 and McVayAnti-Christic_2)

On Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:12:56 -0800, <c2id2h02...@enews2.newsguy.com> "Ken McVay,

OBC" <spamfr...@nizkor.org> wrote:

>"Debunks2005" <debunks2...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20040308123910.29604.00001111@mb-m21.aol.com...
>> PERSPECTIVES
>> The Jews Who Did Not Deny Jesus

>Who is this "Jesus?"
>Do you have forensic evidence that he existed?
>Do you have medical reports of his autopsy?

>...or are you simply falling back on that old canard, the eyewitness?

Looks like you are not only a communist sympathizer and a communist front
(proven below with archives) as well as a person arrested for grand theft auto
and who lies about his funding (again all proofs contained in the archives
below) BUT you are an Anti-Christ which explains why you associate with the
enemies of Christ!

                        ANTI-CHRISTS IDENTIFIED:
1 John 2: 18 "Young children, it is the last hour, and, just as you have heard
that antichrist is coming, even now there have come to be many antichrists."

1 John 2: 22,23 "Who is the liar if it is not the one that denies that Jesus is
the Christ [or Messiah]? These things I write you about those who are trying to
mislead you!"

1 John 4: 2,3 "You gain knowledge of the inspired expression from God by this:
Every inspired expression that confesses Jesus Christ as having come in the
flesh originates with God, but every inspired expression that does not confess
Jesus does not originate with God, Furthermore this is the antichrist's inspired
expression which you have heard was coming, and now it is already in the world."

2 John 7,10,11 "For many deceivers have gone forth into the world, persons not
confessing Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the
antichrist. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, never
receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. For he that says a
greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works."

Everyone compare the last two scriptures to Ken McVay's own words:

>Who is this "Jesus?"
>Do you have forensic evidence that he existed?

Not only are you an Anti-Christ but you are a communist sympathizer and a
communist front who is in part funded by B'nai Brith who has provided the
communist agenda with financial support:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=p0afnvchj52pcuh6c0dk78f9bs7ng...
Subject: NIZKOR.ORG Allies Itself With Communist David Lethbridge Against
America, Capitalism, and Christianity  R_0928
Message-ID: <p0afnvchj52pcuh6c0dk78f9bs7ngfe...@4ax.com>
Date: 29 Sep 2003 03:38:54 GMT

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=4186tvsr4d3oiodp2nibbuvuj91ra...
Subject: UPDATED! B'nai Brith Allies Itself With Communist David Lethbridge
Against Capitalism, and Christianity  V2.0  R_1207
Message-ID: <4186tvsr4d3oiodp2nibbuvuj91rakv...@4ax.com>
Date: 7 Dec 2003 12:48:39 GMT

Your Anti-Christic views mirror those of both B'nai Brith and its ADL who also
"grieved" the collapse of communism as being a source of rising anti-semitism!

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=5rhktv483m9oofgqt8goir93o4pm0...
Subject: 3 Major Jewish Organizations Engage in Holocaust Denial...
Message-ID: <5rhktv483m9oofgqt8goir93o4pm08h...@4ax.com>
Date: 12 Dec 2003 22:57:48 GMT
  If Jews are allowed to call a historic event a "Holocaust" based on Jews being
tortured, imprisoned, and executed by Nazis then why can't Christians claim Jews
had "Holocausts" against non-Jews/Christians seeing how the 1st Century
Pharisees and the 20th Century Jewish led Bolshevists tortured, imprisoned, and
executed Christians/non-Jews. Jews also deny these other "Holocausts" so going
by their standards they are "Holocaust Deniers" and should be prosecuted for
Holocaust Denial"and "Minimalizing the Holocaust[s])" as well!
http://groups.google.com/groups?safe=images&ie=ISO-8859-1&as_umsgid=1i7810p 7itigphaaq2aogggv9r7mjlg...@4ax.com&lr=&hl=en
Subject: Post-Soviet Religion (What Communists did to Christians)  V2.0a  S_0125
Message-ID: <1i7810p7itigphaaq2aogggv9r7mjlg...@4ax.com>
Date: 25 Jan 2004 19:53:30 GMT

  ---Collapse of Communism contributing to the rise of anti-Semitism?---
http://www.adl.org/presrele/ASInt_13/2966_13.asp
(Link active January 21, 2003. Archived locally as: 2966_13)
Press Release Anti-Semitism-International
"...The collapse of communism has brought rapid, often radical change
throughout Central and Eastern Europe and poses a growing threat to the
security of the reemerging Jewish communities in the region," said
Abraham H. Foxman, ADL National Director." <END>
      What is Abe Foxman suggesting? Is he suggesting
          communism was a guardian of Jews?
 Here is B'nai Brith making a shocking revelation:
www.bnaibrith.org/randa/unesco3.html
(Link was active December 2001. Now expired)
The web page was archived complete with graphics by Web Archives Org as:
http://web.archive.org/web/20010221074926re_/www.bnaibrith.org/randa/...
(Link active December 20, 2003. Archived locally as: unesco3_archive-org)
[unesco3_archive-org is a true copy]
Excerpt: "MEASURES AND INITIATIVES TAKEN TO COMBAT ANTISEMITISM, 1991 - '94
Introduction. Antisemitism - World Trends, 1991 - '94 The period of 1991-'94 was
marked by a rise in expressions of antisemitism, resulting mainly from the
collapse of the communist block in Europe and the reunification of Germany."
<END> <<I thought communism was supposed to be an oppressor of Jews so why
should communism's collapse be viewed negatively by Jews? Anyone care to answer
that?!>> Also see:
http://groups.google.com/groups?safe=images&ie=ISO-8859-1&as_umsgid=nj3a009 i4aj9ba7vo42enr206bjf366...@4ax.com&lr=&hl=en
Subject: If Communism Was/Is so Oppressive to Jews then Why Don't Jews Treat it
the Same as They Do Nazism? V3,0b  S_0114
Message-ID: <nj3a009i4aj9ba7vo42enr206bjf366...@4ax.com>
Date: 14 Jan 2004 10:39:56 GMT

It is no secret that Jews are the founders of the communist ideology and the
first totalitarian state!

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=u626vv814v0dt9raqv17ede0h4536...
Subject: V3.0e Forefathers of the Soviet State and Anti-Christ Communism  R_1231
Message-ID: <u626vv814v0dt9raqv17ede0h4536l5...@4ax.com>
Date: 31 Dec 2003 17:34:02 GMT

It is no mystery to me why we never see Jews in general and their lackeys such
as you Ken McVay ever condemning communism YET Jews in general and their lackeys
such as you Ken McVay speak negatively of Christ. IOW you have more regard for
communists and communism than you do Christians and Christianity!

http://groups.google.com/groups?safe=images&ie=ISO-8859-1&as_umsgid=51smtvg jk7u1kfqdota1b1eq60kqi5a...@4ax.com&lr=&hl=en
Subject: Anti-Christ Lubavitcher Jews Prophesy Non-Jews Being in Servitude to
Jews (First Posting)   Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2003 14:02:19 -0600
Message-ID: <51smtvgjk7u1kfqdota1b1eq60kqi5a...@4ax.com>

BUT what can one expect from a person who has been arrested for car theft and
was jailed

           ~~Famous Last Words from Jail Bird Ken McVay~~
http://groups.google.com/groups?safe=images&ie=ISO-8859-1&as_umsgid=c1dhpk0 1...@enews4.newsguy.com&lr=&hl=en
(Archived locally as: McVayCarThief_1 AND McVayCarThief_2)
From: "Ken McVay, OBC" <spamfr...@nizkor.org>
Newsgroups: edm.general,edm.politics,ab.general,can.taxes
Subject: Re: Bracegirdles Both Deserve Jail,Also Auditors-Crown Appeals
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 10:46:13 -0800
Organization: The Nizkor Project http://www.nizkor.org

"Ken McVay, OBC" <spamfr...@nizkor.org> did write:

>It seems Bill Grosvenor is still afraid to publish under his own name.
>That's because he has no evidence that I have ever been arrested, let alone
>convicted, of any crime,

Is that so? Did this Jewish web site lie when it reported this?

http://www.ajc.org/InTheMedia/Publications.asp?did=135&pid=21
(Link active February 11, 2004. Archived locally as JailbirdMcVay)
Also:  http://www.ajc.org/InTheMedia/PublicationsPrint.asp?did=135
(Link active February 23, 2004. Archived locally as JailbirdMcVay2)

The American Jewish Committee

"Hate and the Internet by Kenneth S. Stern
  On-Line Approaches
"My whole agenda is to try and remove their market, as it were. They have an
agenda to sell. If, by demonstrating that they are lying about a specific issue,
I can remove a few hundred people from their potential market place, then I’ve
done them some harm." – Ken McVay, Project Nizkor In 1956 Ken McVay stole his
father’s car and ran away from home. Apprehended, he spent his 16th birthday in
a Bellingham, Washington, jail.... <END>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---
Oooops looks like you have been caught lying again McVay! The "American Jewish
Committee" reported: "Ken McVay, Project Nizkor In 1956 Ken McVay stole his
father’s car and ran away from home. Apprehended, he spent his 16th birthday in
a Bellingham, Washington, jail" YET you stated above: "he has no evidence that I
have ever been arrested, let alone convicted, of any crime"!
       Isn't being  "Apprehended" the same thing as being "arrested"?
WordNet 2.0 Vocabulary Helper: apprehended
The verb apprehend has 3 senses (first 2 from tagged texts)
1. (2) get the picture, comprehend, savvy, dig, grasp, compass, apprehend -- get
the meaning of something; ``Do you comprehend the meaning of this letter?''  
2. (1) collar, nail, apprehend, arrest, pick up, nab, cop -- (take into custody;
``the police nabbed the suspected criminals'' )
3.
...

read more »


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Discussion subject changed to "The Jews who did not deny the Messiah" by Debunks2005
Debunks2005  
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 More options Mar 13 2004, 8:20 pm
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
From: debunks2...@aol.com (Debunks2005)
Date: 14 Mar 2004 01:19:18 GMT
Local: Sat, Mar 13 2004 8:19 pm
Subject: Re: The Jews who did not deny the Messiah

Phillip Friedman, one of your star holocaust eyewitnesses!~  LOL

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Roger  
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 More options Mar 13 2004, 8:33 pm
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
From: Roger <roger@ . >
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 01:26:55 GMT
Local: Sat, Mar 13 2004 8:26 pm
Subject: Re: The Jews who did not deny the Messiah
In one age, called the Second Age by some,
   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
      someone claiming to be Debunks2005 wrote
         in message <20040313201918.26449.00001...@mb-m20.aol.com>:

>Phillip Friedman, one of your star holocaust eyewitnesses!~  LOL

Are you sure he didn't "discover" the Holocaust, too?  Because the
Philip (one "l") Friedman I am familiar with as a historian never
claimed to have personally witness the events about which he writes
IIRC...

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Debunks2005  
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 More options Mar 14 2004, 2:17 pm
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
From: debunks2...@aol.com (Debunks2005)
Date: 14 Mar 2004 19:16:22 GMT
Local: Sun, Mar 14 2004 2:16 pm
Subject: Re: The Jews who did not deny the Messiah

You ought to better acquaint yourself with the literature you profess to be an
expert in, then.

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Roger  
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 More options Mar 14 2004, 2:23 pm
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
From: Roger <roger@ . >
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 19:17:04 GMT
Local: Sun, Mar 14 2004 2:17 pm
Subject: Re: The Jews who did not deny the Messiah
In one age, called the Second Age by some,
   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
      someone claiming to be Debunks2005 wrote
         in message <20040314141622.10096.00001...@mb-m17.aol.com>:

>From: Roger roger@.  
>Date: 3/13/2004 5:26 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <85eaf010fd9a343ee316be99cf4e0...@news.teranews.com>
>>In one age, called the Second Age by some,
>>   (an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
>>      someone claiming to be Debunks2005 wrote
>>         in message <20040313201918.26449.00001...@mb-m20.aol.com>:
>>>Phillip Friedman, one of your star holocaust eyewitnesses!~  LOL
>>Are you sure he didn't "discover" the Holocaust, too?  Because the
>>Philip (one "l") Friedman I am familiar with as a historian never
>>claimed to have personally witness the events about which he writes
>>IIRC...
>You ought to better acquaint yourself with the literature you profess to be an
>expert in, then.

Funny that you cannot cite anything that he was supposed to have
eyewitnessed...

And are you going to continue running from the Gospel contradictions
thread and hope no one notices?


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Debunks2005  
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 More options Mar 14 2004, 5:33 pm
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
From: debunks2...@aol.com (Debunks2005)
Date: 14 Mar 2004 22:32:32 GMT
Local: Sun, Mar 14 2004 5:32 pm
Subject: Re: The Jews who did not deny the Messiah

There are no important contradictions in the Gospels if you properly understand
them.  Obviously you don't.

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