What functionality you do on iOS you wish you could do on Android?

[Arlen Holder]

*What functionality you do on iOS you wish you could do on Android?*
o Specifically functionality outside the prison of the walled garden.
o Also, specifically functionality that the phone does, all by its itty
bitty self (i.e., not requiring a second computer with hundreds of
megabytes of bloatware).

We're not talking brand names, nor trademarks, nor childish games, but real
bona-fide app functionality that you can make a case for wanting to do on
iOS that you can do on iOS, that you wish you could do, on Android.

This thread is an offshoot of this post by badgolferman:
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/z7HCl4tm71E/hpajJRE6BAAJ>
Who (a) first showed how he performs the task on iOS, and then who
(b) asked how to obtain the same functionality on Android.

.....(verbatim by badgolferman from here to the sig).....

There is one useful thing I can do with a native iOS app that I haven’t
found a way to do with Android. Not saying it can’t be done, just that I
haven’t found it.

Using Safari I can send a webpage link to the Home Screen. This saves the
effort of opening Safari and navigating through all the Bookmarks to find
the one I want. By saving the hyperlink and webpage icon to the Home Page I
can merely tap on it and it will open Safari and navigate to the page in
one fell swoop. This functionality is common on Windows desktop computers
and probably other operating systems. I’ve tried it on the iOS Google
Chrome web browser and a Samsung Galaxy S6 to no avail.

If you want to test it yourself:
— open Safari and navigate to a website
— tap the Send To icon on the bottom toolbar
— tap Send To Home Screen

You should find an icon on the Home Page now.

Another thing that comes to mind is if I send a hyperlink to someone via
iMessage it will include a small picture and text rather than a generic
hyperlink icon. The recipient can actually get a preview of what the
hyperlink is about before they click on it. I don’t think this
functionality exists in Android but perhaps you do.

--
Usenet is where purposefully helpful adults publicly share information.

[123456789]

Arlen Holder wrote:

> What functionality you do on iOS you wish you could do on Android?

I sure wish my Android phone had a mute switch on the side like the
wife's iPhone does. Very handy. Course that's not an OS thing but
still a +1 for the iStuff side IMO...

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 16 Nov 2019 03:27:25 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> You should find an icon on the Home Page now.

Hi badgolferman,

If I understand your request accurately...

Regarding saving a web page to a desktop shortcut on Android,
I ran this search for you just now... (where I generally use a privacy
based search engine - but I typed the URL below for others to re-use)
<https://www.google.com/search?&q=android+save+web+page+to+home+screen>

That search came up with a ton of solutions, so I will only test one to ask
you if it's what you want, where I'm on my $130 LG Stylo 3 Plus, Nougat 7.

Skimming the solutions and noting I don't have ANYTHING from Google on my
Android phone other than Maps (and even then, I don't have an account and I
use offline maps most of the time), I see most of the solutions entail the
use of Chrome (which is a browser I eschew, since I only install privacy
browsers)
<https://i.postimg.cc/4yxZtXYW/webicon01.jpg>

I changed the search, again, using Google for others to re-use, such that
it's clear I don't want "chrome" in the solution list:
<https://www.google.com/search?&q=-chrome+android+save+web+page+to+home+screen+-chrome>

First hit is for the "Yandex Browser", which I don't have:
<https://yandex.com/support/browser-mobile-android-phone/useful-features/home-screen-site.html>

Second hit is for the "Firefox Browser", which I don't have:
<https://blog.mozilla.org/theden/2012/12/13/create-a-mobile-shortcut-on-your-home-screen/>

Third hit is also for the "Firefox Browser":
<https://www.techrepublic.com/article/how-to-add-firefox-bookmarks-to-an-android-home-screen/>

Fourth hit is for the "Opera Browser", which I do have:
<https://blogs.opera.com/mobile/2015/09/opera-32-add-to-home-screen/>

Long pressing on the "Opera" icon in my homescreen "web" folder reveals the
version is 51.2.2461.137690 (I rarely update versions unless I specifically
need the newer releases so I have no idea what the current release is):
<https://i.postimg.cc/VvZwW2Mm/webicon02.jpg>

The instructions say to "navigate to a site", so I'll go to:
<http://tinyurl.com/comp-mobile-android>

The instructions given are all wrong for my version of Opera, so I'll just
wing it, where I intuitively hit the 3 dots (hamburger) on the top right,
and then the menu item named "Home screen", and then it walked me through
the simple motions of saving the web icon to the homescreen:
<https://i.postimg.cc/C1mpw9ck/webicon03.jpg>

That created a solid blue icon on my homescreen, which, when pressed,
opened up to the desired web page for comp.mobile.android:
<https://i.postimg.cc/BZ7fk9LG/webicon04.jpg>

Then, since my free nova launcher on Android easily allows us to change
_any_ app icon name (yes, even the names of system apps and user installed
apps & pre-installed apps - any apps, sans root), I changed the webicon
name from its default of "comp.mobile.android Google Groups" to just
"Android".
<https://i.postimg.cc/XYdMrr2V/webicon05.jpg>

Obviously it took far longer to document than to do; but I'm always
purposefully helpful to sincere adults who ask for help from me.

Since I may not have fully understood your need, please let me know if that
is what you asked for, where it seems that _each_ browser has to supply
their specific method of saving any arbitrary web page to a home screen
icon.
--
Usenet is a public potluck where everyone shares value to help others.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 16 Nov 2019 03:27:25 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> Another thing that comes to mind is if I send a hyperlink to someone via
> iMessage it will include a small picture and text rather than a generic
> hyperlink icon. The recipient can actually get a preview of what the
> hyperlink is about before they click on it. I don・t think this
> functionality exists in Android but perhaps you do.

Hi badgolferman,

There are a LOT of bad SMS/MMS apps on Android, as I've tested, oh, I don't
know, maybe a score or more of them, a while ago (I don't remember the
exact number and if I guess, the apologists will be all over me since they
have nothing else factually to dispute, where the instant any DUT (device
under test) does something obnoxious, like display an ad, or ask for a
login, or take too long, or lacking functionality, I delete it instantly).

They only get one strike and they're out.

Here's my detailed report, last I tested free Android SMS/MMS apps
(which was the culmination of about six months of testing, where Android is
really great about ad hoc switching back and forth between default apps
like SMS/MMS apps have to be!):
o Best free SMS app for Android
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/up2NoEHr9M8/atinCKpaEAAJ>

I had found a few good ones, some of which are still on my system, because
it takes nothing on Android to switch default apps (try that on iOS!), but
where I'm currently using PulseSMS:
o Pulse SMS
<https://messenger.klinkerapps.com/overview/>
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=xyz.klinker.messenger>

What I like?
o Free, no ads whatsoever, no nags, etc.
o Automatic MMS photo shrink to desired size
o Automatic MMS photo save to desired location
o Automatic scheduling of future messages
o Easy to create groups
o Easy viewing of unread conversations
o Private (password protected) conversations
o Archived (old) conversations
o Categories (e.g., family, friends, coworkers)
o Blacklist
o Backup to the net (I don't use it though)
o Automatic reply (I don't use that either)
o Delayed sending (if you need to cancel)
o Favorite contacts handled preferentially
o Dual-SIM support
o Send SMS & MMS from any platform any time
o Customize colors and notifications per contact
o Pin favorite contacts to the top of the list
o Both backup to the cloud, and restore
o End-to-end encryption (not stored on their server)
o Search conversations for keywords
o Mute & snooze
o Web previews
etc.

Moving on to your question, on Android, almost any app can share with
almost any other app, where, when I tried the tests below for you, even I
was astounded that I have over 40 lines at four apps per line of choices to
share the web urls and youtube URLs to, where, thank God, the apps
defaulted to the "default" application (or the last shared with), which was
a godsend, since otherwise I'd have to scroll through over 160 potential
apps to share with!
<https://i.postimg.cc/J4n9rmc9/websms04.jpg>

I looked in my SMS/MMS messages, and found this YOUTUBE link I had sent
(actually, I would never use YouTube because it's a privacy sink. Instead,
I had sent it directly from NewPipe since I don't use anything from Google
on my phone that isn't needed, where NewPipe had NO PROBLEM sharing the
link with the default SMS/MMS app).
<https://i.postimg.cc/nh68S5mN/websms01.jpg>

BTW, if you don't know about NewPipe, you're missing out on the greatest
app since sliced bread for YouTube Red functionality, for free, no ads, no
logins, easy downloads, whatever you want since you have complete & total
freedom to do whatever you want on the YouTube database without ever once
telling Google what you're doing!). It's one of the best privacy apps ever!
o <https://newpipe.schabi.org>

HINT: It's so good, I use NewPipe on Windows with Android emulation, where,
on Windows, with the multiple CPUs, all APKs run faster than on Android!

For the web browser test, since I had the newpipe.schabi.org site already
open in the Android Opera browser, I hit the hamburger icon (3 dots) in
Android's Opera, and then selected my default SMS/MMS app, and sent it to
the default SMS/MMS app.
<https://i.postimg.cc/C5M9fVyn/websms02.jpg>

Here's how the NewPipe URL & the Opera URL showed up in PulseSMS:
<https://i.postimg.cc/HnSRwPHZ/websms03.jpg>

Having run that test for you, I may have not have fully understood your
requirements, but since Android can do almost anything (just like Linux),
let me know if that's _not_ what you want by simply clarifying what you
want - and I'm sure we'll find a way.

On Android, I've never yet had to give up (AFAICR) - but we'll see what
others ask for that they have on iOS that they wish they had on Android.

BTW, as always, just documenting this takes far longer than it took to do
it, which took all of a few seconds - but I wanted to document exactly what
I saw for you, since I'm always a purposefully helpful person for sincere
adults who ask reasonable questions.

--
Usenet works best when adults share ideas publicly for the benefit of all.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 16 Nov 2019 03:27:25 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> If you want to test it yourself:
> open Safari and navigate to a website
> tap the Send To icon on the bottom toolbar
> tap Send To Home Screen
> You should find an icon on the Home Page now.

Hi badgolferman,

Since are trying to help you do everything you do that's reasonably useful
on iOS on Android, I decided to work backward to see what is different on
iOS from Android, if anything, by following your helpful instructions.
1. I pointed Safari to http://tinyurl.com/comp-mobile-android
2. I tapped the SendTo icon & then selected "Add To Home Screen"
3. And it showed up on the desktop, where I could no longer edit it.

Did you find that limitation on iOS when you did it?
Admittedly, I never update iOS unless they put a gun to my head
(where you know how crappy iOS releases are in terms of bugs).

In my iOS Safari, if you don't edit the resulting desktop icon exactly when
you're saving it, you're dead. You have to do it all over again because,
for some strange reason, iOS doesn't allow you to change the names of any
of the app icon labels (which Android easily allows for any app).

No big deal, but that's a strange limitation, if you find it also on iOS.

Worse, when I tried the same sequence on Firefox on iOS, there was no save
to desktop method that I could find, at least by hunting & pecking.

Same with Chrome on iOS.

While I'm well aware on iOS you likely aren't allowed the freedom to set
your default browser to anything you want, I wasn't aware that this feature
of saving an app icon is not on the other browsers (at least not on mine).

Can you test it out for us to confirm what I'm seeing is "normal" for iOS?
1. Can you test if the Safari homescreen icon is uneditable after the fact?
2. Can you test if Firefox/Chrome on your iOS can't save to the homescreen?

Thanks for the help in answering these specific iOS based questions.

--
Usenet is where adults publicly share their experiences for all to benefit.

[sms]

Agreed, the ring/silent switch is useful. True, you can silence your
phone in other ways, but the switch is more convenient.

[David Wade]

On 16/11/2019 03:27, Arlen Holder wrote:
> *What functionality you do on iOS you wish you could do on Android?*
> o Specifically functionality outside the prison of the walled garden.
> o Also, specifically functionality that the phone does, all by its itty
> bitty self (i.e., not requiring a second computer with hundreds of
> megabytes of bloatware).
>
> We're not talking brand names, nor trademarks, nor childish games, but real
> bona-fide app functionality that you can make a case for wanting to do on
> iOS that you can do on iOS, that you wish you could do, on Android.
>
> This thread is an offshoot of this post by badgolferman:
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/z7HCl4tm71E/hpajJRE6BAAJ>
> Who (a) first showed how he performs the task on iOS, and then who
> (b) asked how to obtain the same functionality on Android.
>

I have www.whatpub.com saved on my Android screen. Its just well down
the list..

There are actually many things I can do on Android that I wish I could
do on IOS...

... so access the NFC reader so I could have apps that send URLs to the
iphone from NFC points.

Retain a choice in which app to open links in so I can easily switch
between chrome and safari.

The ability to search for apps once I have saved lots of short cuts to
the home screen.

On an iPad you can't see the facebook story feature without using a
browser..

Play media from my own network without having to load VLC...

mirror the screen on my TV when not watching apple TV....

Dave

[nospam]

In article <qqohp0$7r7$1...@dont-email.me>, David Wade

<g4...@dave.invalid> wrote:

> There are actually many things I can do on Android that I wish I could
> do on IOS...
>
> ... so access the NFC reader so I could have apps that send URLs to the
> iphone from NFC points.

that's very easy, and not just for urls. but it can also do actions.

for example, i know people who use nfc tags to set up lights in their
home. they tap the phone on a tag and their lights become dim or bright
or a specific colour for mood lighting or whatever else.

i've also seen people use tags in their car to auto-launch waze or some
other navigation app.

this is well ahead of anything android can do.

> Retain a choice in which app to open links in so I can easily switch
> between chrome and safari.

chrome can be directly opened, although not set to the default.

> The ability to search for apps once I have saved lots of short cuts to
> the home screen.

trivial.

in fact, most people use search because it's much faster to launch an
app.

> On an iPad you can't see the facebook story feature without using a
> browser..

whatever the facebook app does or doesn't do is entirely up to
facebook, not apple.

> Play media from my own network without having to load VLC...

trivial, although you'll obviously need an app to access the server,
the same on any device.

> mirror the screen on my TV when not watching apple TV....

trivial.

just because you don't know how to do something doesn't mean it can't
be done.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 16 Nov 2019 08:04:19 -0500, nospam wrote:

> this is well ahead of anything android can do.

We are communicating on Usenet with adults like badgolferman, nospam.

*Stop playing your silly worthless sadistic childish games, nospam*.
o Just stop

*Almost every post from you on iOS functionality turns out to be a brazen lie.*

You should not post to this adult thread, nospam, because you have been
caught incessantly fabricating imaginary iOS functionality so many times,
anything you say is utter worthless to adults trying to actually ascertain
the answer to the question.
o Why do Apple Apologists constantly brazenly fabricate what turns out to be wholly imaginary Apple functionality?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/SZfblCIRc9s/BNYMDpdXEgAJ>

Worse, you sadistically lead innocent iOS posters on wild-goose chases that
have absolutely zero hope of being successful.
o Why do the Apple Apologists constantly send poor unsuspecting iOS users on wild goose chases?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/ynh0PE9lK_I/QOiGP4_SFQAJ>

You have only 7 basic responses to fact, none of them an adult response:
o What are the common well-verified psychological traits of the Apple Apologists on this newsgroup?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/18ARDsEOPzM/veU8FwAjBQAJ>

Almost every post from you on Android versus iOS functionality is a lie.
o Why do apologists on this ng consistently hate facts about Apple products
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/6OecwGrr4FM/pxffpfr3CQAJ>

Why do you incessantly lie about the huge lack of iOS functionality?
o I don't know why

Maybe you're just a brazen liar; maybe it's DK; maybe you're just stupid.
o Why adults can't communicate with Jolly Roger & nospam & Alan Baker & Snit
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/MwtyT7BdxF4/M9NWnnAAFgAJ>

I just know you have no adult response to facts you seem to hate.
o Why do the apologists like nospam turn into instant children in the face of mere facts (e.g., ftfy)?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/TZbkkqS3jv4/3_TTHgRpBwAJ>

I just know we catch you all the time lying about iOS functionality.
o Why do the apologists like nospam fabricate functionality that doesn't exist?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/aUyeuaPI9pc/r9gtLFjXAwAJ>

*While my posts contain verified facts, your claims are worthless.*

You even constantly fabricate conversations that never happened, nospam.
o Why do Jolly Roger & nospam always FABRICATE conversations.
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/GExRc1qrFGo/JBzdCKSSAwAJ>

In summary, anything you "claim" nospam, about iOS functionality, is
utterly worthless because your credibility on iOS functionality is worse
than the result of a coin toss.

You have been caught lying so many times - your posts are worthless.
o Almost every claim you make on iOS functionality ends up a fabrication.

--
The problem with Usenet is that people like nospam simply lie all the time.

[Arlen Holder]

My phone has a big fat easy-to-use hardware mute switch on the side.
<https://i.postimg.cc/L4zk2whk/mute01.jpg>

Given the huge assortment of hardware choices available for Android, if you
intelligently pick a good Android phone - it should have what you want -
whether that's a big fat hardware mute switch on the side, or a removable
battery, SD slot, FM-radio, rear-mounted fingerprint sensor, integrated
stylus, headphone jack, etc., depending on what you selected for in your
Android phone.

For example, my $130 Android phone has all of that hardware, much of which,
unfortunately, is not on even the most expensive iPhone or iPad ever sold.
o Phablet stocking stuffers: iPhone 7 versus LG Stylo 3 Plus price/performance hardware comparison
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/ls71mnkj4jk/n0FaH2e_DQAJ>

Specifically, my LG Stylo 3 Plus has a big fat hardware mute switch on the
side, which, if I understand the post you're quoting, is what the person in
the missing post asked for that you were responding to.
<https://i.postimg.cc/sDtBKTYn/mute02.jpg>

Having proved that, I may not have understood the original request where
the adult readers will note that Steve Scharf apparently responded to a
well-known troll "123456789" whom I have ghosted, so I only can see what
Steve Scharf selected to quote.

Hardware is actually out of scope of the original intent of badgolferman's
request, if I understand his request correctly (I'm waiting for him to
respond, given I did a ton of work to purposefully help him).

One "game" we have to be aware of is that trolls like nospam & 123456789
will pick the absolutely worst piece of crap Android phone to compare to
their beloved iPhones, which is a game they play all the time made all the
more easy by the fact there must be literally thousands of different
Android models to cherry pick from.

When I chose my phone, I told the folks at Costco not to even think of
showing me a phone that didn't have a removable battery, and likewise with
the headphone jack and sd card. To me, any phone lacking that basic
hardware is nearly worthless to me - but that's the beauty of Android - you
can pick almost any hardware feature set you want to pick - you just have
to be intelligent about your choices.

Anyway, I'm not all that interested in doing more work for the common troll
123456789 (whose posts I don't even see), nor will I respond to the common
troll nospam (who constantly fabricates imaginary iOS functionality),
particularly on hardware issues where nospam's well-known game is to pick
the absolute worst Android phone he can possibly find (it's easy because
there are so many) to compare with his beloved iOS hardware.

Everyone _knows_ I own the LG Stylo 3 Plus, so I didn't play nospam's game.
o My phone is intelligently chosen - and it has a big fat hardware switch.

NOTE: I care about my credibility so if any of my facts are ever wrong,
please let me know as my belief system is not only based on facts, but it's
bolstered by new facts (which is why nospam's incessant fabrications irk me
so much - since his credibility is utterly worthless as a result).
--
The hard part about Usenet is dealing with people who don't care about
their credibility, such as nospam, whose credibility is utterly worthless.

[badgolferman]

Remember my original message was about using “native” apps. Your solutions
appear to be for apps other than “native” system apps.

Frankly I don’t really have a bone to pick in this fight and am not taking
sides. I merely mentioned a couple things in iOS “native” apps that I
didn’t think could be done with “native” Android apps. The physical Mute
switch on the iPhone is a far more superior functionality solution than
what Android offers, but I didn’t mention that earlier because I thought
you didn’t want differences in physical hardware.

The business model of Android allows more solutions for problems we don’t
even know we have. An open source operating system is superior in the
respect that it draws on the free resources of software engineers not
employed by the corporation. But at the same time because of the vast
differences in the functional use of the system after modifications it will
be more difficult to obtain support. The end user is forced to figure it
out themselves or get help from others that may or may not have the
knowledge of the overall system. In this respect iOS affords the collective
knowledge, tools and training of support staff.

[nospam]

In article <qqp403$1v31$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, badgolferman
<REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The business model of Android allows more solutions for problems we donšt

> even know we have. An open source operating system is superior in the
> respect that it draws on the free resources of software engineers not
> employed by the corporation.

not all of android is open source. in fact, relatively little is.

the android that people expect, with the play store and numerous google
apps, including maps, gmail and youtube, is closed source and must be
licensed from google and the hardware itself must also be approved by
google.

> But at the same time because of the vast
> differences in the functional use of the system after modifications it will
> be more difficult to obtain support. The end user is forced to figure it
> out themselves or get help from others that may or may not have the
> knowledge of the overall system. In this respect iOS affords the collective
> knowledge, tools and training of support staff.

that part is true.

[Arlen Holder]

The record will show I did a _lot_ of work for badgolferman, where I'm
still awaiting his adult response on the SMS apps and on the issues I had
reproducing his Safari test results on Chrome, & Firefox on iOS.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 16 Nov 2019 10:33:31 -0500, nospam wrote:

> that part is true.

Everything you say, nospam, is worthless because you constantly and
brazenly fabricate iOS functionality that simply never existed.

Meanwhile, I'm an adult whose credibility matters.

As an adult, I did a _lot_ of work for badgolferman on
a. Proving most (if not all) standard Android browsers save web URLs
b. Proving the best free Android SMS/MMS apps easily display web links
c. Proving the best Android phones have a big fat hardware mute switch
(That last item was added by the common troll, 123456789.)

I'm awaiting badgolferman's adult response to my queries, to which I am
entitled since he asked me, and I spent a lot of effort answering him:
A. What does he think of the Android SMS/MMS solution I provided him?
B. Why does only the "native" iOS browser save URLs - but not the good
industry-standard browsers (i.e., Chrome, Firefox, et al.)

--
On Usenet, people like nospam don't care their credibility is worthless.

[sms]

On 11/16/2019 2:07 AM, David Wade wrote:

<snip>

> There are actually many things I can do on Android that I wish I could
> do on IOS...

Ditto. While I like my iPad and iPhone, it is true that there are a
plethora of things that I can do on my Android devices that are not
possible on iOS devices. There can't even be iOS Apps for those things
because developers aren't permitted to access the hardware. You
mentioned NFC, but being unable to access the GPS NMEA data eliminates
the possibility for a multitude of apps that are available on Android.
The lack of support for Bluetooth SPP is another issue. There's also no
way to have an app that forwards SMS.

Some of these may be related to security concerns. For example, SMS is
often used for 2FA. They also don't want someone surreptitiously
installing an SMS forwarding app on someone elses phone. I can't think
of any security reason why they would deny access to NMEA data. For NFC,
they probably don't want anyone writing a payment app that competes with
Apple Pay, but as you pointed out NFC is used for other things than just
mobile wallets, plus they could exclude other payment apps from the app
store anyway. Also hard to understand why they don't support Bluetooth
SPP but at least there was eventually a workaround with BLE.

In some cases they may have been concerned about people loading apps
onto jail-broken devices so they decide that they would just prevent the
possibility of allowing development of certain apps at all.

There's a fundamental difference between the Android and iOS philosophy.
Android is open. It's less secure. But it's useful in a wide variety of
devices and applications that go far beyond the consumer space. Android
is used in industrial, scientific, medical, and commercial devices where
iOS would be difficult or impossible to use because of the limits on
access to parts of the hardware. I recall when I was consulting at one
company and the setup of one of our devices required an external phone
or tablet and it was not possible to write an iOS app because of lack of
access to NMEA data. We kept getting asked for an iOS app but it wasn't
possible. I suggested that we just include a $20 Android phone from
Walmart in the box, with our app pre-loaded--didn't matter if the phone
was locked to some prepaid provider, it would never be activated.

[badgolferman]

I will answer here since the other post is way too long. Keep in mind I am
using NewsTapLite on an iPhone 7 and have no access to an Android device.
I’m also sitting in a hospital room attending to my son who has been here
since Monday with his latest bout of spontaneous pneumothorax which
required surgery this time. So forgive me if I don’t take the time to
answer every question fully.

The main question I recall was the inability to change the name of an icon
or app. Yes, this is a shortcoming that makes no sense to me. How difficult
could it be to allow such customization?

I saw all your instructions about making desktop links with the other
browsers but that wasn’t the gist of my argument, it was how to do this
with “native” apps which Chrome is for Android.

Regarding the SMS apps, I have no way to verify what you described so I
will take your word for it. It would be nice if iOS and Android could share
the standard so when I send something to a Samsung we all see the same
thing.

One more thing...I am disappointed in Android’s lack of a functional NNTP
newsreader that would match NewsTap in abilities. Some of the ones I’ve
tried on Android leave much to be desired. Or maybe I should just blame
NewsTap for not having an Android version!

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 16 Nov 2019 08:50:47 -0800, sms wrote:

> Android is open. It's less secure.

Stop saying that Steve; it's dead wrong.
o And easily proven so.

Steve is dead wrong simply because he's immune to facts.
o Based on the facts: *Android is _not_ less secure than iOS.*

That's an "assessment" of many "facts", where adults have to be able to
a. Comprehend the facts <-- all is lost when adults are immune to facts
b. Process those facts in a reasonable sensible logical manner

In the case of privacy difference between Android & iOS, most people I've
spoken to are almost completely ignorant of the facts (they only believe
what Marketing fed them to believe).

Adults who agree on the facts first, can _then_ reasonably and logically
discuss whether one platform is "more secure" than the other, but Steve
Scharf is not going to be one of those adults (he is often immune to basic
facts).

ASSESSMENT of the facts:
o Security/privacy is set of chainlinks.
1. In very many ways, iOS has stronger links than Android.
2. In just as many ways, Android has stronger links than iOS.
3. And in innumerable ways, _both_ have extremely weak links.

Proof & facts here for _adults_ to first comprehend, then assess:
o What is the factual truth about PRIVACY differences or similarities between the Android & iOS mobile phone ecosystems?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/FCKRA_3i9CY/Bm40liKdEQAJ>

Note: Apple highly touts imaginary privacy & imaginary security, which is
not fact, but which people like Steve who prove to be immune to facts, are
fed to believe. Even Google proved, beyond doubt, iOS was never tested, for
years, where iOS privacy/security bugs abound (just look at the iOS13
disaster for just one example).

Apple touts imaginary privacy & imaginary security
o Because it's so much easier to advertise it than to actually deliver it.

People who are immune to facts are fed what to believe, by Apple.
o They lack adult cognitive thought-processes outside of Marketing
--
Adults need to first comprehend facts & then form reasonable beliefs.
If two adults first agree on the facts, only then can they reasonably
discuss their variant assessments. Adults who are immune to facts, will
never progress to that second adult stage of logic, sense, & reason.

[nospam]

In article <qqp9dj$o8h$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, badgolferman

<REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> The main question I recall was the inability to change the name of an icon
> or app. Yes, this is a shortcoming that makes no sense to me. How difficult
> could it be to allow such customization?

it's not that it's difficult, it's that there's very little demand for
it.

> I saw all your instructions about making desktop links with the other

> browsers but that wasnąt the gist of my argument, it was how to do this
> with łnative˛ apps which Chrome is for Android.

he has no issue installing third party apps on other platforms to do
what he wants, but for ios, he forbids it to further his trolling.

> Regarding the SMS apps, I have no way to verify what you described so I
> will take your word for it. It would be nice if iOS and Android could share
> the standard so when I send something to a Samsung we all see the same
> thing.

that's a limitation of sms messaging and not anything apple or google
can get around.

rcs adds most of what apple's imessage has been doing for many years,
but that has its own issues. google plans to adopt it, but the carriers
are trying an end run around google. it remains to be seen how that
will play out.

> One more thing...I am disappointed in Androidąs lack of a functional NNTP
> newsreader that would match NewsTap in abilities. Some of the ones Iąve

> tried on Android leave much to be desired. Or maybe I should just blame
> NewsTap for not having an Android version!

there is little to no demand for a decent usenet news client, and not
just on mobile. nothing prevents writing a good one, but it won't be
profitable.

[nospam]

In article <qqp9da$deb$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> > There are actually many things I can do on Android that I wish I could
> > do on IOS...
>
> Ditto. While I like my iPad and iPhone, it is true that there are a
> plethora of things that I can do on my Android devices that are not
> possible on iOS devices.

the reverse is also true, and in fact, there is more than ios can do
that android can't.

> There can't even be iOS Apps for those things
> because developers aren't permitted to access the hardware.

absolutely false.

> You
> mentioned NFC, but being unable to access the GPS NMEA data eliminates
> the possibility for a multitude of apps that are available on Android.

very, very few such apps.

> The lack of support for Bluetooth SPP is another issue.

it is not an issue at all.

bluetooth spp is old and obsolete, having been replaced with bluetooth
le, which is not only more reliable, but far easier to write apps that
use it.

> There's also no
> way to have an app that forwards SMS.

also false.

> Some of these may be related to security concerns. For example, SMS is
> often used for 2FA. They also don't want someone surreptitiously
> installing an SMS forwarding app on someone elses phone.

sms 2-factor is not secure no matter what anyone does, and if someone
can install an app on someone else's phone, they can get the code
directly and also access plenty of other information on the phone
itself. in other words, bogus argument.

> I can't think
> of any security reason why they would deny access to NMEA data. For NFC,
> they probably don't want anyone writing a payment app that competes with
> Apple Pay, but as you pointed out NFC is used for other things than just
> mobile wallets, plus they could exclude other payment apps from the app
> store anyway.

it's a security issue, not a competition issue.

> Also hard to understand why they don't support Bluetooth
> SPP but at least there was eventually a workaround with BLE.

ble is not a workaround.

ble is a full on replacement that is in every way better than spp and
bluetooth classic.

you are trolling.

> In some cases they may have been concerned about people loading apps
> onto jail-broken devices so they decide that they would just prevent the
> possibility of allowing development of certain apps at all.

false.

> There's a fundamental difference between the Android and iOS philosophy.
> Android is open.

only aosp. the rest of android is not, and must be licensed from google.

> It's less secure. But it's useful in a wide variety of
> devices and applications that go far beyond the consumer space. Android
> is used in industrial, scientific, medical, and commercial devices where
> iOS would be difficult or impossible to use because of the limits on
> access to parts of the hardware.

nonsense.

ios is widely use in *all* of those areas, particularly medical and
scientific.

you are trolling.

> I recall when I was consulting at one
> company and the setup of one of our devices required an external phone
> or tablet and it was not possible to write an iOS app because of lack of
> access to NMEA data.

one company is not enough to justify supporting it.

[Rod Speed]

"sms" <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:qqogda$1la$1...@dont-email.me...

But has the major downside that its too easy to do accidentally.

Do Not Disturb works better because now with iOS 13 it
stands out like dogs balls on the locked screen when you have
managed to forget to turn it off when its no longer wanted.

[Rod Speed]

"David Wade" <g4...@dave.invalid> wrote in message
news:qqohp0$7r7$1...@dont-email.me...

> On 16/11/2019 03:27, Arlen Holder wrote:
>> *What functionality you do on iOS you wish you could do on Android?*
>> o Specifically functionality outside the prison of the walled garden.
>> o Also, specifically functionality that the phone does, all by its itty
>> bitty self (i.e., not requiring a second computer with hundreds of
>> megabytes of bloatware).
>>
>> We're not talking brand names, nor trademarks, nor childish games, but
>> real
>> bona-fide app functionality that you can make a case for wanting to do on
>> iOS that you can do on iOS, that you wish you could do, on Android.
>>
>> This thread is an offshoot of this post by badgolferman:
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/z7HCl4tm71E/hpajJRE6BAAJ>
>> Who (a) first showed how he performs the task on iOS, and then who
>> (b) asked how to obtain the same functionality on Android.
>>
>
> I have www.whatpub.com saved on my Android screen. Its just well down the
> list..
>
> There are actually many things I can do on Android that I wish I could do
> on IOS...
>
> ... so access the NFC reader so I could have apps that send URLs to the
> iphone from NFC points.
>
> Retain a choice in which app to open links in so I can easily switch
> between chrome and safari.
>
> The ability to search for apps once I have saved lots of short cuts to the
> home screen.

Not sure what you mean by that. I did manage to lose an app
that ended up in an inappropriate folder and there is no way
to have iOS tell you were it is. That would be useful.

> On an iPad you can't see the facebook story feature without using a
> browser..
>
> Play media from my own network without having to load VLC...
>
> mirror the screen on my TV when not watching apple TV....

No argument with any of those, they would be useful.

Main thing I miss is automatic recording of all incoming
and outgoing phone calls. It would be very handy to be
able to check something, particularly when buying a new
service, check what someone has promised that their service
will do and be able to force them to deliver that if they refuse
to later or get a full refund etc.

Also automatically answer an incoming call, maybe only
when actually driving etc with a bit of a pause so you can
tell siri to ignore particularly incoming calls etc.

[Rod Speed]

Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>> David Wade <g4...@dave.invalid> wrote

>>> The ability to search for apps once I have
>>> saved lots of short cuts to the home screen.

>> Not sure what you mean by that. I did manage to lose an
>> app that ended up in an inappropriate folder and there is
>> no way to have iOS tell you were it is. That would be useful.

> Wrong. The name of the folder is displayed right there
> in front of you. Here's a search for 1Blocker on my
> iPhone showing it is in my Utility folder:

> <https://jmp.sh/EHzJu8u>

Doesn't work reliably for me, the folder name shows with
some apps but not others. Running the latest iOS,
https://www.dropbox.com/s/l05vuqte78xr3d5/photo%2017-11-19%2C%2007%2015%2012.png?dl=0

[Rod Speed]

Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote

Likely it doesn’t show when there is more than
one app and they are in different folders.

[Rod Speed]

"Jolly Roger" <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote in message
news:h3bgvr...@mid.individual.net...

> On 2019-11-16, Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> David Wade <g4...@dave.invalid> wrote
>>
>>>>> The ability to search for apps once I have
>>>>> saved lots of short cuts to the home screen.
>>
>>>> Not sure what you mean by that. I did manage to lose an
>>>> app that ended up in an inappropriate folder and there is
>>>> no way to have iOS tell you were it is. That would be useful.
>>
>>> Wrong. The name of the folder is displayed right there
>>> in front of you. Here's a search for 1Blocker on my
>>> iPhone showing it is in my Utility folder:
>>
>>> <https://jmp.sh/EHzJu8u>
>>
>> Doesn't work reliably for me
>

> Yes it does.

It clearly doesn’t.

> It doesn't display the location while multiple
> apps match the partial name you have typed
> since there is no room on the screen to do so.

So it doesn’t work reliably for that reason.

> You need to continue typing the name
> until there is only one match in the list.

Not even possible with my example.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/l05vuqte78xr3d5/Photo%2017-11-19%2C%2007%2015%2012.png?dl=0

[sms]

On 11/16/2019 8:50 AM, badgolferman wrote:

<snip>

> The main question I recall was the inability to change the name of an icon
> or app. Yes, this is a shortcoming that makes no sense to me. How difficult
> could it be to allow such customization?

Whenever you come across functionality that there appears to be no
coherent reason why it doesn't exist, there's probably some reason that
it doesn't exist that isn't obvious.

For years, developers were complaining on various forums about the lack
of support for Bluetooth SPP (Serial Port Profile) and proposing
workarounds. It seemed to make no sense, and some very useful
applications that were on Android could not be written for iOS because
the only Bluetooth peripherals used SPP. BLE has partially addressed
this issue, but BLE has its own issues in terms of throughput making it
unsuitable for many peripherals, and of course there are many Bluetooth
devices that don't support BLE.

The lack of NMEA data from the GPS is another mystery. There's no
security reason that's obvious, yet not having access to that data
precludes many Android apps from being ported to iOS.

The inability to use the NFC hardware in the iPhone is another mystery.
Being able to communicate with NFC devices and to read NFC tags allows
for some useful applications on Android that can't be ported to iOS.

[nospam]

In article <qqqbol$c50$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

>
> > The main question I recall was the inability to change the name of an icon
> > or app. Yes, this is a shortcoming that makes no sense to me. How difficult
> > could it be to allow such customization?
>
> Whenever you come across functionality that there appears to be no
> coherent reason why it doesn't exist, there's probably some reason that
> it doesn't exist that isn't obvious.

the reason is obvious and quite simple:
there is insufficient demand for developers to bother.

> For years, developers were complaining on various forums about the lack
> of support for Bluetooth SPP (Serial Port Profile) and proposing
> workarounds.

bullshit. almost nobody complained, and once bluetooth le came out,
which the iphone was first to support, btw, they went silent since btle
is far, far better than spp in every way (and the rest of bluetooth
classic for that matter).

> It seemed to make no sense, and some very useful
> applications that were on Android could not be written for iOS because
> the only Bluetooth peripherals used SPP. BLE has partially addressed
> this issue, but BLE has its own issues in terms of throughput making it
> unsuitable for many peripherals, and of course there are many Bluetooth
> devices that don't support BLE.

more bullshit.

bluetooth le not only fully addressed the limitations of spp, but it
has made spp entirely obsolete.

it's *much* easier to write apps that use btle versus bluetooth classic
(spp or any other profile) and is *far* more reliable.

i've written numerous bluetooth apps. you have not, nor do you know
anything about it.

> The lack of NMEA data from the GPS is another mystery. There's no
> security reason that's obvious, yet not having access to that data
> precludes many Android apps from being ported to iOS.

nonsense. there are very, very few apps that need raw nmea.

a much bigger problem is that android lacks an equivalent for ios core
location, which means there are a *lot* of location-aware ios apps that
are impossible to do on android, far more than what supposedly needs
nmea.

> The inability to use the NFC hardware in the iPhone is another mystery.
> Being able to communicate with NFC devices and to read NFC tags allows
> for some useful applications on Android that can't be ported to iOS.

utter bullshit.

ios has supported nfc tags for a while and is now more capable and much
more secure than what's on android.

not only can app developers use it, but users can set up their own
automations, triggered by an nfc tag, which can even be a contactless
credit card.

with homekit, which android lacks, a simple tap of the phone can set
mood lighting, adjust the thermostat and start playing a movie on tv.

that would be at best, extremely difficult to do on android, if it's
even possible, and i don't think it is due to the number of apps that
would need to work together.

three out of three wrong. you are so full of shit.

[David Wade]

On 17/11/2019 03:44, nospam wrote:
> In article <qqqbol$c50$1...@dont-email.me>, sms
> <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>> The main question I recall was the inability to change the name of an icon
>>> or app. Yes, this is a shortcoming that makes no sense to me. How difficult
>>> could it be to allow such customization?
>>
>> Whenever you come across functionality that there appears to be no
>> coherent reason why it doesn't exist, there's probably some reason that
>> it doesn't exist that isn't obvious.
>
> the reason is obvious and quite simple:
> there is insufficient demand for developers to bother.
>
>> For years, developers were complaining on various forums about the lack
>> of support for Bluetooth SPP (Serial Port Profile) and proposing
>> workarounds.
>
> bullshit. almost nobody complained, and once bluetooth le came out,
> which the iphone was first to support, btw, they went silent since btle
> is far, far better than spp in every way (and the rest of bluetooth
> classic for that matter).

Instead of just saying "bullshit" it would be nice to have some pointers
on how these things work...

I see now that since IOS11 you can read Tags. I know there was a lot of
concern from a Museums list I am on that NFC was not much use because
iPhones didn't support, but this was about 18 months ago, and I would
expect that most Apple users are at this level by now...

> not only can app developers use it, but users can set up their own
> automations, triggered by an nfc tag, which can even be a contactless
> credit card.
>
> with homekit, which android lacks, a simple tap of the phone can set
> mood lighting, adjust the thermostat and start playing a movie on tv.
>

I think this is possible with IFTT but I havn't really worked hard on it.

> that would be at best, extremely difficult to do on android, if it's
> even possible, and i don't think it is due to the number of apps that
> would need to work together.
>
> three out of three wrong. you are so full of shit.
>

Please don't be such an arsehole. Just because folks don't know how
doesn't mean they are bad people.

Dave

[Trolleybus]

On Sun, 17 Nov 2019 05:06:33 +1100, "Rod Speed"
<rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
>"sms" <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote in message
>news:qqogda$1la$1...@dont-email.me...
>> On 11/15/2019 8:17 PM, 123456789 wrote:
>>> Arlen Holder wrote:
>>>
>>>> What functionality you do on iOS you wish you could do on Android?
>>>
>>> I sure wish my Android phone had a mute switch on the side like the
>>> wife's iPhone does. Very handy. Course that's not an OS thing but still a
>>> +1 for the iStuff side IMO...
>>
>> Agreed, the ring/silent switch is useful. True, you can silence your phone
>> in other ways, but the switch is more convenient.
>
>But has the major downside that its too easy to do accidentally.
>

My OnePlus has a small slider: ring, vibrate or silent. It takes a
deliberate action with a thumb to overcome the resistance to motion
and I've never managed to move it accidentally,

[sms]

On 11/17/2019 2:22 AM, David Wade wrote:

<snip>

> Instead of just saying "bullshit" it would be nice to have some pointers
> on how these things work...

LOL, you're new here huh?

The reality is that there are a large number of Bluetooth devices that
use the Serial Port Profile (SPP). BLE and Bluetooth are different
animals. They are not compatible but there are transceivers that support
both protocols. The throughput of BLE is lower.

Notice that they didn't call it BLP (Bluetooth Low Power), it's BLE
(Bluetooth Low Energy) for a good reason. a BLE device can run for a
very very long time on a coin cell battery, even though on the occasions
that it powers up, and transmits and receives data, the power is high.

> Please don't be such an arsehole. Just because folks don't know how
> doesn't mean they are bad people.

LOL, especially when we do know how! You can be pretty certain when
someone is being obnoxious that they also have know idea what they are
talking about!

[nospam]

In article <qqr71a$4lf$1...@dont-email.me>, David Wade

<g4...@dave.invalid> wrote:

> > In article <qqqbol$c50$1...@dont-email.me>, sms
> > <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> >> For years, developers were complaining on various forums about the lack
> >> of support for Bluetooth SPP (Serial Port Profile) and proposing
> >> workarounds.
> >
> > bullshit. almost nobody complained, and once bluetooth le came out,
> > which the iphone was first to support, btw, they went silent since btle
> > is far, far better than spp in every way (and the rest of bluetooth
> > classic for that matter).
>
> Instead of just saying "bullshit" it would be nice to have some pointers
> on how these things work...

read the bluetooth le documentation, or ask a specific question.

btle pairs more easily (none of the hassles with discovery or codes),
it's packetized with error correction (spp is just an endless stream of
data), battery life is substantially better, among many other benefits.

writing apps that use btle is *significantly* easier than for bluetooth
classic, particularly spp, and it's possible to do things that could
never be done with classic.

his claim that developers complained is not only fabricated, but it's
simply absurd.

if anything, developers jumped at using btle because it greatly reduces
the amount of work needed to be done, which both saves them money and
shortens the time to market.

hardware device makers can advertise a standard profile (if applicable)
and their device will be natively supported without the need for a
separate app (although they usually write one anyway), something *not*
possible with spp.

that also means that software developers can write apps that work with
existing and future hardware they don't make.

everyone wins.

here's a current list:
<https://www.bluetooth.com/specifications/gatt/>

this isn't the first time he's spewed this shit, and each time he does,
it's been explained to him, which he then ignores.

> > ios has supported nfc tags for a while and is now more capable and much
> > more secure than what's on android.
> >
>
> I see now that since IOS11 you can read Tags. I know there was a lot of
> concern from a Museums list I am on that NFC was not much use because
> iPhones didn't support, but this was about 18 months ago, and I would
> expect that most Apple users are at this level by now...

as of october 2019, 93% of ios users are using ios 12 or later and 55%
for ios 13 (which is only two months old). older versions aren't broken
down anymore, but it's safe to assume it's at least 95% using ios 11 or
later.

there are a number of older ios devices (more than five years old at
this point) that can't go past ios 10 but do show up on stats. they
don't have nfc at all, so it doesn't matter what version they run. the
hardware is too old.

also, museums aren't a good metric of what features are available for
any technology since they tend to be very limited in resources to
deploy anything modern.

> > not only can app developers use it, but users can set up their own
> > automations, triggered by an nfc tag, which can even be a contactless
> > credit card.
> >
> > with homekit, which android lacks, a simple tap of the phone can set
> > mood lighting, adjust the thermostat and start playing a movie on tv.
> >
>
> I think this is possible with IFTT but I havn't really worked hard on it.

ifttt uses a remote server, therefore it will have a significant
latency and is also a privacy concern, and it will obviously not work
if there's no internet connection.

this is a major problem with motion sensors, where you walk into a room
and because it has to ping a server, it can take a second or two for
the lights to turn on or off (or whatever else). that's *much* too
long.

when everything is local, as it is for homekit, there is no latency.
walk into a room and the lights immediately switch on.

> > that would be at best, extremely difficult to do on android, if it's
> > even possible, and i don't think it is due to the number of apps that
> > would need to work together.
> >
> > three out of three wrong. you are so full of shit.
> >
> Please don't be such an arsehole. Just because folks don't know how
> doesn't mean they are bad people.

the problem is not that someone doesn't know something.

the problem is when someone continues to ignore repeated explanations
that they're wrong and why, yet continues to spew the same rubbish, as
is the case here, and not just with the above topics either.

he is fully aware that it's false, yet he continues to spew it. it's
quite clear he is trolling.

[nospam]

In article <qqrcas$20u$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

>
> The reality is that there are a large number of Bluetooth devices that
> use the Serial Port Profile (SPP).

not anymore there aren't.

spp is obsolete and has been for years.

nearly everything these days is btle, and for very good reasons.

> BLE and Bluetooth are different
> animals.

yep, ble is vastly more capable.

> They are not compatible but there are transceivers that support
> both protocols. The throughput of BLE is lower.

throughput is *not* important for bluetooth devices, which were never
designed for high speed, and since spp has no error correction as does
btle, the *actual* throughput is low due to detecting and handling
errors.

> Notice that they didn't call it BLP (Bluetooth Low Power), it's BLE
> (Bluetooth Low Energy) for a good reason. a BLE device can run for a
> very very long time on a coin cell battery,

that is a significant advantage.

> even though on the occasions
> that it powers up, and transmits and receives data, the power is high.

no, the power is *not* high.

bluetooth le keyboards, which 'power up' for extended periods of time
(as in many hours of non-stop typing) can last 1-2 *years* on a single
charge.

> > Please don't be such an arsehole. Just because folks don't know how
> > doesn't mean they are bad people.
>
> LOL, especially when we do know how! You can be pretty certain when
> someone is being obnoxious that they also have know idea what they are
> talking about!

the phrase you want is 'no idea', except that it describes you.

i've written several apps that use btle, and unlike you, i am *very*
familiar with how it works.

[Rod Speed]

"Trolleybus" <unk...@birchanger.com> wrote in message
news:bfb2telcgiv46pm33...@4ax.com...

> On Sun, 17 Nov 2019 05:06:33 +1100, "Rod Speed"
> <rod.sp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"sms" <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote in message
>>news:qqogda$1la$1...@dont-email.me...
>>> On 11/15/2019 8:17 PM, 123456789 wrote:
>>>> Arlen Holder wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> What functionality you do on iOS you wish you could do on Android?
>>>>
>>>> I sure wish my Android phone had a mute switch on the side like the
>>>> wife's iPhone does. Very handy. Course that's not an OS thing but still
>>>> a
>>>> +1 for the iStuff side IMO...
>>>
>>> Agreed, the ring/silent switch is useful. True, you can silence your
>>> phone
>>> in other ways, but the switch is more convenient.
>>
>>But has the major downside that its too easy to do accidentally.

> My OnePlus has a small slider: ring, vibrate or silent. It takes a
> deliberate action with a thumb to overcome the resistance to
> motion and I've never managed to move it accidentally,

We're talking about iphones where its all too easy to do by accident.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 16 Nov 2019 15:18:27 +0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote:

> Remember my original message was about using "native" apps. Your solutions
> appear to be for apps other than "native" system apps.

WTF?

AFAIK, there is no such thing as a "native browser" to Android
o Each phone comes pre-loaded with manufacture-specific crap & then you
load what you want.

You know this is how the Android ecosystem works.
o People use their brain to populate their phone with the best apps.

Are you playing silly childish games with us adults, badgolferman?
o On iOS, only the "native" browser appears to save to the desktop.
o On Android, it appears almost "every" browser saves to the desktop.

I did a _lot_ of work for you badgolferman, only to find out you're playing
stupid silly childish games trying to buff up the piece of shit Safari
browser compared to the industry standard browsers available on both
platforms.

I didn't realize you too, were a worthless childish apple apologist.

It doesn't matter if the "functionality" is "native" for this question
simply because the functionality merely needs to "exist" in an app.
o The functionality exists (in a limited form) on iOS
o The functionality exists (in all the common browsers) on Android.

> Frankly I don¢t really have a bone to pick in this fight and am not taking
> sides. I merely mentioned a couple things in iOS "native" apps that I
> didn¢t think could be done with "native" Android apps.

Either you're completely ignorant of how Android works, badgolferman.
o Or you're playing silly little childish games that only apologists play.
(Pick one.)

There is no such thing as a "native" Android browser.
o Sure, each comes with a piece of shit browser from the manufacturer

But EVERY browser (yes, even the official Tor Browser) is on Android.
o That kind of privacy is NOT on iOS (the iOS "tor" browsers are fakes).
[Courtesy to Mike Tegas, he tried his best by building the iOS "Onion"
browser; but even he said he could not do it right because iOS is so
restrictive.]

> The physical Mute
> switch on the iPhone is a far more superior functionality solution than
> what Android offers, but I didn¢t mention that earlier because I thought
> you didn¢t want differences in physical hardware.

Are you not only playing silly childish apologist games, badgolferman?
o But you're also completely ignorant of the most basic of facts?

What's this?
<https://i.postimg.cc/L4zk2whk/mute01.jpg>

What does it do?
<https://i.postimg.cc/sDtBKTYn/mute02.jpg>

The problem with you child-like Apple apologists is that you _hate_ the
fact that iOS doesn't have the functionality that Android has, so you play
your silly childish little games (e.g., saving URLs to the desktop which
almost every standard Android browser apparently can do) and you completely
ignore even the most basic of facts (such as you did with the hardware mute
switch which was already proven).

It wouldn't irk me so much that you apologists can only play silly childish
games, badgolferman - but I had done a ton of work for you - assuming you
were an adult - and hence, worth that effort.

Since you've proven you're nothing but a worthless apologist, I will
henceforth ignore your requests, since you're not worth my valuable time.

The problem with you iOS apologists is you _hate_ that iOS is basically not
functional compared to Android - so you manufacture silly idiotic childish
requirements (e.g., native browsers) when there is essentially no such
thing on Android (although I suspect the Google phones come "native" with
Chrome, so even there, you're dead wrong badgolferman.

In short, you apologists believe exactly what Apple marketing fed you to
believe, which is almost always easily shown to be complete & utter
bullshit.

EVERYTHING badgolferman asked for is easily on Android.
o Everything (and yes, even native on Google phones, I'm sure).

--
The problem with Usenet, particularly Apple newsgroups, is that the people
on those groups gravitate to purely "religious" messaging, where actual
facts don't play any role whatsoever in their imaginary belief systems.

[badgolferman]

Arlen Holder <_arlen....@halder.edu> wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Nov 2019 15:18:27 +0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote:
>
>> Remember my original message was about using "native" apps. Your solutions
>> appear to be for apps other than "native" system apps.
>
> WTF?
>
> AFAIK, there is no such thing as a "native browser" to Android
> o Each phone comes pre-loaded with manufacture-specific crap & then you
> load what you want.
>
> You know this is how the Android ecosystem works.
> o People use their brain to populate their phone with the best apps.
>
> Are you playing silly childish games with us adults, badgolferman?
> o On iOS, only the "native" browser appears to save to the desktop.
> o On Android, it appears almost "every" browser saves to the desktop.
>
> I did a _lot_ of work for you badgolferman, only to find out you're playing
> stupid silly childish games trying to buff up the piece of shit Safari
> browser compared to the industry standard browsers available on both
> platforms.
>
> I didn't realize you too, were a worthless childish apple apologist.
>
> It doesn't matter if the "functionality" is "native" for this question
> simply because the functionality merely needs to "exist" in an app.
> o The functionality exists (in a limited form) on iOS
> o The functionality exists (in all the common browsers) on Android.
>

>> Frankly I donąt really have a bone to pick in this fight and am not taking

>> sides. I merely mentioned a couple things in iOS "native" apps that I

>> didnąt think could be done with "native" Android apps.

>
> Either you're completely ignorant of how Android works, badgolferman.
> o Or you're playing silly little childish games that only apologists play.
> (Pick one.)
>
> There is no such thing as a "native" Android browser.
> o Sure, each comes with a piece of shit browser from the manufacturer
>
> But EVERY browser (yes, even the official Tor Browser) is on Android.
> o That kind of privacy is NOT on iOS (the iOS "tor" browsers are fakes).
> [Courtesy to Mike Tegas, he tried his best by building the iOS "Onion"
> browser; but even he said he could not do it right because iOS is so
> restrictive.]
>
>> The physical Mute
>> switch on the iPhone is a far more superior functionality solution than

>> what Android offers, but I didnąt mention that earlier because I thought
>> you didnąt want differences in physical hardware.

Take it easy Arlen. Maybe I’m the ignorant one since I thought Chrome is
native to Android since it’s a Google product. The old Samsung S5 we have
has Chrome on it.

Speaking of being an adult, I’m sitting in my son’s hospital room tending
to him. What is so adult about berating the one person on this newsgroup
who tolerates you?

[sms]

On 11/17/2019 1:39 PM, badgolferman wrote:

> Take it easy Arlen. Maybe I’m the ignorant one since I thought Chrome is
> native to Android since it’s a Google product. The old Samsung S5 we have
> has Chrome on it.

Correct. Chrome is native on all Android phones. It can't even be
uninstalled.

> Speaking of being an adult, I’m sitting in my son’s hospital room tending
> to him. What is so adult about berating the one person on this newsgroup
> who tolerates you?

Sorry to hear about your family's medical issues. You have enormous
patience to actually read and respond to "Arlen Holder's" posts. He
really needs to tone it down. He often posts factual information, about
60% of what he writes is correct, but he's got to stop with the personal
attacks.

[nospam]

In article <qqsbd5$e73$2...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen Holder

<_arlen....@halder.edu> wrote:

> AFAIK, there is no such thing as a "native browser" to Android

yes there is. in fact, some android devices have more than one.



> I'm completely ignorant of how Android works,

ftfy

[nospam]

In article <qqsf6p$hpd$1...@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> ... "Arlen Holder's" posts. He

> really needs to tone it down. He often posts factual information, about
> 60% of what he writes is correct,

more like 0.6%, roughly the same as you.

> but he's got to stop with the personal
> attacks.

that also applies to you, but it won't happen in either case.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 16 Nov 2019 12:39:52 -0500, nospam wrote:

>> I saw all your instructions about making desktop links with the other

>> browsers but that wasnšt the gist of my argument, it was how to do this

>> with łnative˛ apps which Chrome is for Android.
>
> he has no issue installing third party apps on other platforms to do
> what he wants, but for ios, he forbids it to further his trolling.

Stop playing silly childish games nospam.
o Just stop.

Not only do you incessantly brazenly fabricate imaginary iOS functionality,
but you just as often fabricate conversations that never happened, where,
in addition, you brazenly fabricate what I forbid.

Grow up nospam.
o You have no adult response to facts.

Every brazen fabrication from you proves your entire belief system is
imaginary.

What's hilarious is that you and badgolferman are immune to basic facts:
a. Chrome, on Android, works just fine to save URLs to the desktop.
b. It's Chrome on iOS which doesn't save the URLs to the desktop.

Why can't anything but Safari save URLs to the desktop on iOS?
o I don't know why.

Why don't you and badgolferman tell _us_ why, only on iOS, are all the
major browsers NOT saving web URLs to the desktop?

On Android, it just works for all the browsers tested.

--
A key problem with apologists like nospam is not only is it that almost
everything they post proves their entire belief system is imaginary, but
they have to fabricate conversations that never happened, just to justify
their own belief systems.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 16 Nov 2019 12:39:55 -0500, nospam wrote:

> the reverse is also true, and in fact, there is more than ios can do
> that android can't.

Hi nospam,

You just made the statement, where the whole point of this thread is to
find at least one app functionality on the iTunes App Store that isn't
already on the Android repositories, that does something useful that you,
as an adult, can justify as being useful on a mobile device.

So far, badgolferman struck out three for three due to sheer ignorance:
*MYTH #1 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/XYdMrr2V/webicon05.jpg>
*MYTH #2 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/sDtBKTYn/mute02.jpg>
*MYTH #3 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/sDtBKTYn/mute02.jpg>

I doubt there are many adults on this newsgroup who actually know the iOS
ecosystem well enough to know _why_ iOS will _always_ be less functional
than Android (hint, walled garden); but still, the question is a fair one
to ask on these newsgroups.

Name just one useful adult app functionality that you feel is on the iOS
official app store that you use and hence you can justify as being useful,
that you feel is NOT on the Android ecosystem.

Name just one.

--
The problem with the apologists is that they can never back up their
fabricated functionality claims, simply because their inmaginary belief
system is based on a shockingly almost total ignorance of what exists on
Android and what the iOS ecosystem really is (hint: walled garden).

[Arlen Holder]

On Sun, 17 Nov 2019 17:20:17 -0500, nospam wrote:

> more like 0.6%, roughly the same as you.

*Name just _once_ that my facts on this newsgroup were materially wrong.*

What's interesting is that I already listed in this thread numerous
instances where you were dead wrong, nospam.

And yet, you can't find a _single_ instance in my thousands of posts over
the years, where I've made a statement that was wrong in material facts.

What's surprising, is that you (and Steve) consider that someone speaking
facts is incredible, whereas, for an educated person who has worked for
decades in Silicon Valley Startups, it's normal to speak of material facts.

My belief system is not only comprised of facts, but it's bolstered by
facts.

Hence, I challenge you and anyone who says otherwise, to simply prove me
wrong.

Find just once in my entire life that I've made a material statement on
these iOS or Android newsgroups that was NOT based on material facts.
o Name just one

Notice, it's you and Steve and people like you who are afraid of facts.
o I'm not afraid of facts.

You fail this simple test of your imaginary belief system, nospam:
o Name just one

Your belief system actually believes that I'm 99.4% wrong on facts, and
yet, the fact remains that out of my thousands of posts on this newsgroup,
you can't find a _single_ instance where my facts were materially wrong.

Why do you apologists always lie when it comes to facts?

o I don't know why.

All I know is every time I challenge you to back up your claims with facts
o You fail.

I'm not afraid of facts, nospam.

Name just once on these newsgroups where my facts were materially wrong.
o Name just one.

--
The problem with apologist is that their child-like brains are like how a
child believes in the Tooth Fairy; they can't conceive of the fact that the
Tooth Fairy is imaginary simply because Marketing told them otherwise.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sun, 17 Nov 2019 13:48:05 -0800, sms wrote:

>> Take it easy Arlen. Maybe I▌ the ignorant one since I thought Chrome is
>> native to Android since it┬ a Google product. The old Samsung S5 we have

>> has Chrome on it.
>
> Correct. Chrome is native on all Android phones. It can't even be
> uninstalled.

While none of us know everything, it seems that most of the apologists are
supremely ignorant of what is on Android, since the three things we
discussed so far are easily busted as myths that they're not on Android:

*MYTH #1 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/XYdMrr2V/webicon05.jpg>
*MYTH #2 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/sDtBKTYn/mute02.jpg>
*MYTH #3 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/sDtBKTYn/mute02.jpg>

As for Chrome being "native" on all Android phones, I first must state that
the point of "functionality" is not whether it's "native", but whether it
exists, where being freeware helps to make it available to everyone.

Hence, I consider the belatedly tacked on requirement of being "native" is
just silly, since it turns out (almost?) all the Android common browsers I
tested had this capability - while - ironically - only the "native" iOS
browser seemed (in my quick tests) to have this basic functionality.

Even so, since I strive for 100% credibility on facts, I checked _my_ phone
for Chrome, and you are correct that even I can't delete it, even as I've
deleted everything that I possibly could that was related to Google:
<https://i.postimg.cc/kX4dCg2M/chrome01.jpg>

>> Speaking of being an adult, I▌ sitting in my son┬ hospital room tending

>> to him. What is so adult about berating the one person on this newsgroup
>> who tolerates you?
>
> Sorry to hear about your family's medical issues. You have enormous
> patience to actually read and respond to "Arlen Holder's" posts. He
> really needs to tone it down. He often posts factual information, about
> 60% of what he writes is correct, but he's got to stop with the personal
> attacks.

Steve Scharf,

*Stop your brazen lies.*
o Just stop.

An adult wouldn't need to resort to brazen lies like you just did.
o You have _never_ even _once_ been able to back up your lies with facts.

I'm an adult Steve.
o I'm not afraid of facts, Steve.

*I've asked you numerous times to stop this incessant brazen lie of yours*
o Or back up your imaginary belief system with at least _one_ fact, Steve.

And you've failed that simple "name just one" test every single time.
o You prove that your belief system is based on exactly zero (0) facts.

You're the one brazenly lying left and right - and if I call you out on
your brazen lies, you consider it a personal affront.

Be an adult Steve.
o *Form a belief system based on more than exactly zero (0) facts, Steve.*

The fact your brazen lies are based on exactly zero (0) facts, Steve, is
why I am again telling you that you have two ADULT choices if you don't
want me to call you out on your brazen lies.
1. Back up your brazen lies with at least a _single_ fact, Steve.
2. Or, stop repeating your brazen lies which have _zero_ (0) basis in fact.

For me to be 60% correct on facts would be 40% wrong, which is so
preposterous as to be something only an apologists would be proud of Steve.

You can't name a _single_ fact I've stated that is wrong Steve.
o You can't name even one.

The fact is that I'm sick of your brazen lies, Steve.
o You consider that a personal affront - but you're the one brazenly lying.

Be an adult Steve for once in your life.
o Name just _once_ that I have stated a fact materially wrong, Steve.

Name just one.
o It's what a real adult would do, Steve.

--
The problem with people like Steve is that they actually _believe_ what
they write, and yet, they can _never_ back up their imaginary belief system
with even a _single_ facts (which makes them scary people if they're
politicians, because it means they own belief systems that have absolutely
zero basis in actual facts).

[Arlen Holder]

On Sun, 17 Nov 2019 21:39:15 +0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote:

> Take it easy Arlen. Maybe I▌ the ignorant one since I thought Chrome is
> native to Android since it┬ a Google product. The old Samsung S5 we have
> has Chrome on it.

Hi badgolferman,
Let's be adults and stick to the salient facts.

FACT:
o Android browsers can (almost?) all save web URLs to the desktop.
<https://i.postimg.cc/C1mpw9ck/webicon03.jpg>
o In fact, it's the iOS browsers which appear to be severely limited.

*MYTH #1 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/XYdMrr2V/webicon05.jpg>

FACT 2:
o Android SMS/MMS apps display beautifully video links & web URLs.
o In fact, it's trivial to change between default MMS/SMS apps on Android.

*MYTH #2 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/sDtBKTYn/mute02.jpg>

FACT 3:
o Well-chosen Android phones have whatever hardware you want in a phone.
o That not only includes a big fat hardware mute button on the side
<https://i.postimg.cc/L4zk2whk/mute01.jpg>
o But that can include a removable battery (as my $130 phone has)
o And an external sd card slot (as my $130 phone has)
o And an FM Radio, Built-in stylus, & headphone jack (as my phone has)

*MYTH #3 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/sDtBKTYn/mute02.jpg>

These three facts point out that the apologists only seem to know what
Apple marketing has fed them to believe, where, it turns out, they're
almost completely ignorant of what functionality actually exists on
Android.

What's sad is that their belief system is based on this ignorance of
Android, in addition to a supreme ignorance of why iOS will always be
woefully deficient in functionality to Android (hint: walled garden).

> Speaking of being an adult, I▌ sitting in my son┬ hospital room tending

> to him. What is so adult about berating the one person on this newsgroup
> who tolerates you?

To be completely honest with you (as I am always), you may have noticed I
haven't posted in a while, which is because I had machine problems, where
that post wasn't actually supposed to go out since it was put in the queue
BEFORE I saw that you were at your son's side in the hospital.

You know my credibility is stellar, where, literally, on the post that I
was telling you to just ignore this stuff and concentrate on your family,
is when the machine crashed (I still haven't recovered everything yet so
I'm just hacking this out from my scripts).

So I have two things to say to you, both of which are important:
1. Spend your time with your family - that's much more important than here.
2. You use the word "tolerate" which negates the fact my credibility is
stellar; so if you only "tolerate" someone who always speaks facts, then
that tells me a LOT about how your brain is wired when it comes to
imaginary functionality (which is the game you tried to pull on us).

On all three of those requests, it turns out that the iOS posters were
completely ignorant of what Android does.
a. Android browsers (almost?) all save web URLs to the desktop.
b. Android SMS/MMS apps easily show beautifully URLs & YouTube links.
c. Well chosen Android phones like mine have big fat hardware mute switches.

There's a perfectly sensible, logical, and obvious reason why Android will
always have all the functionality of iOS and then tons more (i.e., it's not
restricted on purpose by the manufacturer).

*Anyone who doesn't realize that is wholly ignorant of what iOS really is.*

Notwithstanding that there is likely ZERO (0) app functionality on iOS that
isn't already on Android, you should give up on this thread topic and take
care of your family, as your family always comes first (you need
grandchildren!).

--
This thread seems to prove that the iOS users are almost completely
ignorant of what app functionality exists on Android, which means their
belief systems are apparently based on an almost total lack of facts.

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 18 Nov 2019 07:37:21 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> While none of us know everything, it seems that most of the apologists are
> supremely ignorant of what is on Android, since the three things we
> discussed so far are easily busted as myths that they're not on Android:
> *MYTH #1 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/XYdMrr2V/webicon05.jpg>
> *MYTH #2 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/sDtBKTYn/mute02.jpg>
> *MYTH #3 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/sDtBKTYn/mute02.jpg>

Ooops. Wrong screenshot busting the number 2 myth:

This is the right screenshot showing the myth was easily busted:

*MYTH #1 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/XYdMrr2V/webicon05.jpg>

*MYTH #2 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/HnSRwPHZ/websms03.jpg>

*MYTH #3 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/sDtBKTYn/mute02.jpg>

It seems pretty clear that iOS users are ignorant of what's on Android.

--
These posters apparently based their belief system on exactly zero facts.

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 18 Nov 2019 07:37:22 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> FACT:
> o Android browsers can (almost?) all save web URLs to the desktop.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/C1mpw9ck/webicon03.jpg>
> o In fact, it's the iOS browsers which appear to be severely limited.
> *MYTH #1 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/XYdMrr2V/webicon05.jpg>
>
> FACT 2:
> o Android SMS/MMS apps display beautifully video links & web URLs.
> o In fact, it's trivial to change between default MMS/SMS apps on Android.
> *MYTH #2 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/sDtBKTYn/mute02.jpg>
>
> FACT 3:
> o Well-chosen Android phones have whatever hardware you want in a phone.
> o That not only includes a big fat hardware mute button on the side
> <https://i.postimg.cc/L4zk2whk/mute01.jpg>
> o But that can include a removable battery (as my $130 phone has)
> o And an external sd card slot (as my $130 phone has)
> o And an FM Radio, Built-in stylus, & headphone jack (as my phone has)
> *MYTH #3 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/sDtBKTYn/mute02.jpg>

Ooops. I posted the wrong link to the 2nd busted myth:

*MYTH #1 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/XYdMrr2V/webicon05.jpg>

*MYTH #2 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/HnSRwPHZ/websms03.jpg>

*MYTH #3 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/sDtBKTYn/mute02.jpg>

So far, nobody has shown an app functionality on the iOS app store that
isn't already on the Android app respositories ...

This thread is an honest open up-front attempt to find out if there is even
one useful adult app functionality that people use (and hence, can justify)
that is on iOS, that isn't already on Android.

Does _anyone_ use a useful adult app functionality on iOS that they wish
was on Android?

--
So far we easily proved the posters were ignorant of what's on Android.

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 18 Nov 2019 07:37:19 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> So far, badgolferman struck out three for three due to sheer ignorance:
> *MYTH #1 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/XYdMrr2V/webicon05.jpg>
> *MYTH #2 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/sDtBKTYn/mute02.jpg>
> *MYTH #3 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/sDtBKTYn/mute02.jpg>

Correction of the #2 busted myth screenshot:

*MYTH #1 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/XYdMrr2V/webicon05.jpg>

*MYTH #2 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/HnSRwPHZ/websms03.jpg>

*MYTH #3 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/sDtBKTYn/mute02.jpg>

So far it's clear that many Apple users based their beliefs of Android
functionality on exactly zero (0) facts; where we _still_ seek the truth.

Is there _any_ app in the iOS app store that has an app functionality that
you, as an adult, use (and hence can justify) that you feel is _not_
already in the Android app repositories?

*If so, please name just one iOS app functionality not already on Android.*

--
So far, it seems easily shown that apologists have a belief system about
Android app functionality that is purely imaginary in that it's not based
on actual facts.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sun, 17 Nov 2019 17:20:10 -0500, nospam wrote:

>> I'm completely ignorant of how Android works,
>
> ftfy

*Must you always prove, nospam, you have no adult response to facts?*
o Why do the apologists like nospam turn into instant children in the face of mere facts (e.g., ftfy)?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/TZbkkqS3jv4/3_TTHgRpBwAJ>

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 18 Nov 2019 06:27:26 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> What's hilarious is that you and badgolferman are immune to basic facts:
> a. Chrome, on Android, works just fine to save URLs to the desktop.
> b. It's Chrome on iOS which doesn't save the URLs to the desktop.
>
> Why can't anything but Safari save URLs to the desktop on iOS?
> o I don't know why.
>
> Why don't you and badgolferman tell _us_ why, only on iOS, are all the
> major browsers NOT saving web URLs to the desktop?
>
> On Android, it just works for all the browsers tested.

This is for badgolferman who seems to be one of the very few adults on this
newsgroup, where he asked the question so the responsibility is on him to
back up his claims.

In my tests, admittedly on older iOS versions, the Chrome browser on iOS
did NOT seem to save the web URL to the desktop, while the "native" Safari
browser was the only browser on my iOS device that did.

We already know by now (from Steve and others) that Chrome is apparently on
all Android devices, so, we can consider it "native" of sorts, if that's
your schtick, where being native doesn't mean much to me since it's trivial
to load any browser you want and then make it the DEFAULT browser on
Android.

On iOS, you can't even _find_ the official Tor Browser for example (it
doesn't exist), so you're already limited in anonymity capabilities, and on
iOS you can't get rid of the Apple ID, so, again, you're limited in
privacy, but even so, why would the Chrome browser NOT save the web URL to
the desktop on iOS - but it does easily on Android (based on the links I
proved you earlier)?

I don't know why.

Do you know why only the Safari browser, of the browsers I tested on iOS
saved the URL to the desktop?

On Android, since you can set the DEFAULT browser to anything you want,
this arbitrary iOS-only distinction of "native" (which really, I think,
means 'default' to you) is meaningless.

Why is it that _only_ the Safari browser, of those I tested, had this basic
functionality on iOS, while almost every common browser I tested on Android
had it?

--
It's funny that apologists think you hate iOS if you simply understand it.

[badgolferman]

Arlen Holder <arlen.geo...@is.invalid> wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Nov 2019 21:39:15 +0000 (UTC),

> So I have two things to say to you, both of which are important:
> 1. Spend your time with your family - that's much more important than here.
>

> care of your family, as your family always comes first (you need
> grandchildren!).
>

I can’t rest easy until I know if I’ve made The List...

[sms]

On 11/17/2019 3:26 AM, Trolleybus wrote:

<snip>

> My OnePlus has a small slider: ring, vibrate or silent. It takes a
> deliberate action with a thumb to overcome the resistance to motion
> and I've never managed to move it accidentally,

Yeah, I know someone who switched to an iPhone, a long-time Android
users, who didn't realize that the little switch had gotten flipped and
couldn't figure out why her phone wasn't ringing.

I really like that switch. It's easier than turning the volume all the
way down then remembering to turn it all the way up.

What they could do is to have an indication that stays on the screen
when that switch is in the Do Not Disturb position. On my iPhone, when
you flip the switch, an indication appears briefly on the screen, but it
goes away after a second.

It's actually amazing that that hardware mute switch is still there
after all these years. It's a rather redundant feature that you could
duplicate with volume controls or settings. A hardware switch not only
adds cost but needs to be sealed for IP68. They removed the home button
switch, Touch ID, and the headphone jack to reduce costs, so how did the
hardware Ring/Silent switch stay?

[nospam]

In article <qqu42e$877$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> It's actually amazing that that hardware mute switch is still there
> after all these years. It's a rather redundant feature that you could
> duplicate with volume controls or settings. A hardware switch not only
> adds cost but needs to be sealed for IP68. They removed the home button
> switch, Touch ID, and the headphone jack to reduce costs, so how did the
> hardware Ring/Silent switch stay?

the first three were replaced with much better options, not to reduce
costs.

there are no better options for a ring/silent switch, therefore, it
remains.

using the volume control to mute and certainly going into settings are
much worse.

this has all been explained to you before, and more than once, yet you
continue to troll.

[sms]

On 11/18/2019 4:30 AM, badgolferman wrote:

<snip>

> I can’t rest easy until I know if I’ve made The List...

LOL, this reminds me of when Nixon had his "Enemies List" and there were
people upset that they hadn't been included.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_list_of_Nixon%27s_political_opponents>

I finally made "The List," and I thought I was being gracious by
pointing out that in reality he often posts factual information,
actually he is at about 60% accuracy. He can strive for 100% factual
information. I have achieved that, but it's a high bar.

[nospam]

In article <qqu80m$u73$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> He can strive for 100% factual
> information. I have achieved that, but it's a high bar.

you're trolling, and no, you definitely haven't, not even close. most
of what you claim is easily shown to be false.

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 18 Nov 2019 12:30:14 +0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote:

> I can┤ rest easy until I know if I▔e made The List...

Hi badgolferman,

Don't play silly games with me badgolferman; I hope you remain an adult.

Hear me out badgolferman, as I might be one of the very few and indeed
quite rare adults on the Apple newsgroups we're posting to (e.g., David
Empson always posts as an adult).

As I said, you can trust what I say as my credibility is stellar.
o (e.g., I am not afraid of facts where Steve can't support his own
claims.)

I have been thinking for a while WHY you made that seemingly silly
requirement of "native" browser - when - on Android - native means very
little since you can install whatever you want and make it the default.

Bear in mind I had queued that WTF post BEFORE I had seen that you were
tending to a sick relative, where the crash occurred (that I'm still
recovering from since my scripts for Usenet are a nightmare built over the
years).

I had written a kindler, gentler note when I realized you were tending to a
sick one, where, as always, family comes first (grandchildren are always
the goal, of which I have plenty to be proud of).

In fact, they get the iPads because the facts "seem" to show that there is
apparently literally zero app functionality on the iOS app store that isn't
already on the Android repositories and there's good reason for that (hint,
walled garden).

To be very sincere with you, as I always am, what irked me is that I had
thought your question was sincere, where I skipped the "native" since you
only mentioned it on the iOS side in your OP and not on the Android side.

You haven't confirmed why on earth it would matter if the app was "native"
on either platform (because that's a silly requirement on Android), where
you must understand I deal with apologists on this newsgroup who play silly
childish semantic games (e.g., you can write your own app to graph wifi
signal strength for all nearby access points so nospam claims the app
functionality exist even as he fails the name-just-one rule every time).

But then I belatedly remembered that iOS is quite different from Android in
that the "native" app on iOS is the _only_ app (apparently) allowed to have
certain functionalities (hint, walled garden).

Bear in mind the apologists like nospam play silly semantic games all the
time (e.g., throttling software on iPhone X silly childish games nospam
loves to play or taking dates from a youtube post instead of from the
reliable media as Alan Baker loves to play).

I ignored your first post of "native" because it was presumed silly; where
I was shocked that you claimed it was important.

WTF?

Why would being "native" be important, I thought, when on Android, being
native is meaningless (other than it can't be deleted sometimes)?

Then I belatedly relized ... "oh shit ... I forgot iOS is a walled
garden!".

On iOS, being "native" means it's the ONLY CHOICE for the DEFAULT BROWSER,
I believe. Is that a correct assumption?

If so, being native is important _only_ on iOS, and it's not "being native"
that is important, but being the DEFAULT BROWSER which is important.

I am an adult badgolferman - where I assume for this next question that you
are also an adult - which means you can explain your actions to another
adult.

If my assumption is correct, you are only guilty of not being clear that
you don't really care that it's a "native" browser, but that it's the
DEFAULT browser (which _is_ important).

And, if that assumption is correct, I apologize for coming down hard on
your because I only belatedly realized when you require a "native" browser
on iOS, it's only because iOS is so restrictive (i.e., walled garden) that
the "native" browser is the only browser allowed to be the DEFAULT browser.

Is my assumption correct?

--
Adults can have differences of opinion on Usenet but adults should never
disagree on what the facts are (that's left for the child-like apologists).

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 18 Nov 2019 05:57:40 -0800, sms wrote:

> I finally made "The List," and I thought I was being gracious by
> pointing out that in reality he often posts factual information,
> actually he is at about 60% accuracy. He can strive for 100% factual
> information. I have achieved that, but it's a high bar.

Steve Scharf,

This is an important post - because it's about you, Steve Scharf.
o It outlines how to find out whether or not you are an adult in fact.

I am an adult who owns adult cognitive skills - the question is about you.
o We've proved I apologize when/if I am ever wrong - what about you?

I back up my stated beliefs with at least one (usually many) cited facts
o I always pass the name-just-one rule; the question is whether you do?

Are you an adult Steve Scharf or not?

This post assumes you own adult cognitive skills so hear me out, Steve.
o It's a very important post because it questions whether you are an adult.

*Your own actions will determine if you appear to be an adult - or not.*

Your belief system is based on exactly zero (0) facts if you can't even
name a _single_ instance in my many thousands of posts to this newsgroup
that you find materially wrong.

Since I'm an adult, my belief system is not only based on facts, but it's
bolstered by facts, where, for example, I can change my belief system if
the facts change.

A case in point could be the fact that the media widely reported that the
iPhone X was being "remanufactured", and yet, weeks and months later, to my
knowledge, those supposedly remanufactured instances of the iPhonx X
haven't materialized (AFAIK).

Day in and day out, we adult have to deal with the child-like apologists
where, for example, Alan Baker jumps all over that as a material fact he
says I got wrong - where my material facts were never wrong since I simply
reported what was in the media.

You have to understand what I'm saying, which also happened with you on the
Qualcomm legal negotiations, as well as with all the apologists who posted,
where NONE OF YOU UNDERSTOOD the QUALCOMM LEGAL SITUATION.

None of you.

I repeat. None of you comprehended even the simplest things of a complex
legal situation. None of you exhibited adult comprehensive skills.

Not even you Steve, since you clearly claimed royalties per phone went
down, where a person of adult comprehensive skills would easily see
otherwise (they went up, as I recall, to 114% on average, per iPhone).

It was the same with this idiotic Snit video where NONE OF THE APOLOGISTS
comprehended something as trivial as the difference between a decibel and a
megabit on the Y-Axis for Christs' sake, Steve.
o It's a fact iOS devices can't even graph Wi-Fi signal strength over time
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/PZuec56EWB0/rX-L9xbYAQAJ>

There are VERY FEW people on this newsgroup who exhibit adult comprehensive
skills, Steve, and I can name _multiple_ instances where you failed in
basic adult cognitive skills (I pass the name-just-one rule, Steve, because
I am an adult whose belief system is based on facts.)

An example is the Qualcomm royalty payment, which you did not comprehend
(and where none of the apologists comprehended either).

Since I'm not afraid of facts Steve, I asked you to either refute the facts
or apologize, which you did neither - which is NOT the mark of an adult,
Steve.

Notice this very adult fact, Steve:
o When I'm wrong, I admit it (badgolferman knows that because I proved it).
o When you're wrong, not only do you not admit it - but then you drop to
the level of a small child by claiming, sans a _single_ fact, that I'm 40%
wrong, which is so dismal a record as to be almost at the level of the
apologists, Steve.

Since I back up my statements, here is badgolferman's thread showing that I
am an adult Steve, who can admit when/if I'm wrong.
o wrong, by badgolferman
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/BjiM9DsVXj8/iqurJBJnBwAJ>

You see Steve, I am an adult.
o No adult would ever be an adult if they were actually 40% wrong.

It's just not what adults do.

I actually think you're well educated Steve, where most of the apologists
prove not to be based on what they write - so I'm appalled and dismayed
that you claim that I'm 40% wrong when you can't find a _single_ instance
where you feel I was wrong.

All you can find is instances where I proved YOU were wrong
(e.g., the Qualcomm royalty situation).

I'm not afraid of facts Steve Scharf, because I am an adult.

Every time you make this baseless claim, Steve, I will add your lies to
this thread, where you have yet to back up your own claims of me being 40%
wrong on facts, when you can't name a _single_ material fact I've gotten
wrong on these newsgroups, despite thousands of controversial posts
(controversial on Apple ngs simply because they contain facts).
o Steve claims Arlen is only 60% correct where Arlen is 100% correct on material facts
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/u7yQ959XPRU/a9jvGbXfAwAJ>

I am an adult Steve.
o 40% wrong is approaching the child-like levels of the apologists

You can't get through graduate school in demanding subjects or through
decades of Silicon Valley startups not being nearly 100% correct on facts.

You just can't.
o Being 40% wrong is the child-like level of the Apple Apologists, Steve.

These apologists don't care about their credibility as their entire belief
system is imaginary in the first place (which we've proven so many times, I
hope you don't need me to provide a cite for that!). :)

Just as badgolferman likely miscommunicated when he required a "native" app
where he most likely meant "default" app, if I assume you are an adult,
Steve, then your utterly preposterous 40% wrong statement is more than
likely that you disagree with 40% of my ASSESSMENTS of fact, Steve.

You don't appear to say that, but if I give you the benefit of the doubt on
why you make such a ridiculous claim that you haven't supported with even a
_single_ fact, then this may be what you're "attempting" to say:

1. An adult owns two very important skills
a. The ability to comoprehend basic facts
b. The ability to make rational, logical, sensible & reasonable assessments

Notice that all adults should agree on (a), the basic facts.
Notice that all adults can reasonably disagree on the weight and value of
the assessments of those facts.

I suspect, if I assume you're an adult Steve Scharf, that you can't
possibly disagree with 40% of the facts, since that would drop you to the
level of the child-like Apple apologists who prove to be immune to facts.

I suspect, if I assume you're an adult, Steve Scharf, that you simply
disagree with the weighting of 40% of my assessments of those facts - which
is perfectly fine.

In summary, you are welcome to disagree with 40% of my ASSESSMENTS of
facts; but you have zero basis in fact to make the claim that I'm 40% wrong
on material facts.

--
People on this newsgroup constantly confuse the huge difference between
what a fact is (which all adults should be able to easily agree upon) and
what a weighted assessment of that fact is (where all adults can reasonably
disagree since adults often weight the impact of the facts differently).

[badgolferman]

Arlen Holder <arlen.geo...@is.invalid> wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Nov 2019 12:30:14 +0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote:
>

>> I canąt rest easy until I know if Iąve made The List...

I have an iPhone 7 and as an emergency backup phone we have a shattered
Samsung S5 (no SIM) which I use to play games on sometimes.

You asked for just one thing iOS can do that Android can’t. The example of
desktop links is what came to mind because the S5 only has Chrome. My
iPhone has Safari and Chrome. I tried to replicate the desktop link using
Chrome in both systems but failed with both. I did not download more
browsers to test it.

So my original message stating “native” browsers was all about that one
functionality using a phone out of the box. I totally get that Android is
far more customizable and hence more “powerful” than iOS, but in this case
I wanted to point out the iOS app provided by the operating system does do
one thing the app provided by Android does not. I wish iOS would allow
other apps to become default, but they don’t. Sometimes you can change
options in certain apps that launch other apps to open one that is
non-native though.

Yes, this is a trivial example which the vast majority of users will never
use so maybe it’s not needed (according to nospam) and should be
eliminated.

[%]

"sms" <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote in message

news:qqu80m$u73$1...@dont-email.me...

Like hell you have.

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 18 Nov 2019 16:27:39 +0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote:

> I have an iPhone 7 and as an emergency backup phone we have a shattered
> Samsung S5 (no SIM) which I use to play games on sometimes.

Likewise, I have plenty of iOS iPads and Android phones.
o I also give iPods, iPhones and Android phones as gifts

Here, for example, is a Chrome test on another Android phone which happens
to have Chrome as one of the four items in the dock, it's that important to
that user:
<https://i.postimg.cc/FzxPf1qM/chrome02.jpg>

Notice that screenshot I just made moments ago proves your belief system is
entirely imaginary - so please STOP claiming Chrome doesn't save desktop
URLs, because I long ago showed you the facts prove otherwise (with
references which you appear to be immune to, just like Alan Baker is).

I'm familiar with what each ecosystem can do; but since I mostly use
Android, I'm more familiar with what Android can do.

That's why this thread is of great interest to me, because it affords the
iOS users to ask if their favorite useful app functionality exists on both
platforms, or on just one.

> You asked for just one thing iOS can do that Android canÿt.

Actually, to be clear, you started this by posting to the wrong thread.

I simply paraphrased what you asked (and then included, verbatim, your
question).

Personally, I'm an adult who comprehends not only facts, but the
ramifications of those facts, where that is apparently an adult cognitive
skill almost unheard of in the Apple newsgroups - such that - I believe -
it's easy to prove that iOS app functionality pales in comparison to that
of Android.

It's clear that I personally doubt there is a more than even chance that
there isn't even a _single_ useful decently large app functionality on iOS
that isn't on Android, simply because of basic adult cognitive skills of
logic, sense, & reason:
a. The iOS ecosystem is unilaterally drastically limited by Apple
b. The Android ecosystem is not
c. And, most importantly, technology & user needs are the same on both.

BTW, you can complain about the minor side-by-side comparisons of the
newsreaders, but rest assured, I've used NewsTap (Michelle Steiner kindly
provide me a license, remember?), where I agree with most adults that all
newsreaders, essentially suck, on mobile devices (for a variety of
reasons).

When we speak of functionality, we're NOT comparing the functionality
differences between apps, since even on the same platform, such minor
functionality differences abound.

We're talking decently useful functionality people use, such as:
o Ability to automatically record phone calls
o Ability to change the default application to anything you want
o Ability to load any app launcher you might want
o Ability to record WiFi signal strength for all access points over time
o Ability to organize your home screen any way you feel like doing it
o Ability to completely remove the manufacturer ID & advertiser ID
o Ability to run the bona-fide real Tor Browser (not fakes)
o Ability to instantly turn the device into a read/write USB stick
o Ability to list all apps to the device from the device into any format
o Ability to automatically archive any and all IPAs/APKs to the device
o Ability to backup & restore to/from the device sans using the cloud
o Ability to obtain apps from any reliable repository you might desire
o Ability to archive at any time any APK/IPA on the phone to the phone
o Ability to change app icon names to anything you want them to be
o Ability to have an "app drawer" feature to make organization easier
etc.

> The example of
> desktop links is what came to mind because the S5 only has Chrome. My
> iPhone has Safari and Chrome. I tried to replicate the desktop link using
> Chrome in both systems but failed with both. I did not download more
> browsers to test it.

The fact is that it worked on every Android browser I tested.
o Worse, it failed on every iOS browser I tested other than Safari.

That may or may not be the case overall for most browsers, but it's still a
fact nonetheless.

Without prejudice, I think most iOS owners are rather ignorant of what is
available on Android - which I believe is for a few reasons that are
sensible and easy to understand.

As I recall, for example, nospam claimed that some Android phones don't
have an "app drawer" functionality, where, when he said that (years ago as
I recall), I easily proved that you can simply download any number of app
drawer apps, each of which does the basics along with other niceties.

Notice that nospam apparently based his claim on pure ignorance of what
existed on Android, as I recall that he was shocked that an "app drawer"
app doesn't have to be "native" on the Android ecosystem to work.

In fact, I have _multiple_ app-drawer apps on my Android phone:
<https://i.postimg.cc/qRjtqpZj/appdrawer01.jpg>
simply because each app-drawer app has different useful features.

It's my understanding something as simple as an "app drawer app" is, AFAIK,
impossible on iOS. Why? I don't know why. You tell me why.

> So my original message stating ´native¡ browsers was all about that one
> functionality using a phone out of the box.

Bear in mind I sincerely tried to help you, where proving the capabilities
was easy - but where documenting it takes all the effort (particularly
since on the Apple newsgroups, the apologists incessantly make brazen
claims of imaginary functionality that they can never back up with even a
single screenshot as proof). You know this to be a fact, badgolferman.

To me, "out of the box" is patently meaningless, unless the phone is so
poorly chosen that it comes with zero storage and zero expansion memory.

On Android, there are _plenty_ of apps with the functionality to list the
installed (system or otherwise) apps to any number of a huge variety of
editable formats (or to be shared by the phone to other apps on the phone
such as email or SMS):
<https://i.postimg.cc/MpbSr3hL/applist01.jpg>

My system comes packed with 264 "native" apps; but I've added 200 more:
<https://i.postimg.cc/qq3fc1sj/applist02.jpg>

Where, to be fair, I test app functionality all the time, badgolferman,
such as this set of a couple dozen speech-to-text apps I was testing out:
<https://i.postimg.cc/T186yqvF/speechtotext02.jpg>

NOTE: I find it hilarious when apologists claim that Android users get
viruses, where I've never been affected by a virus on Android (AFAIK) and I
certainly load hundreds of apps (but I use intelligent selection methods).

> I totally get that Android is
> far more customizable and hence more ´powerful¡ than iOS, but in this case
> I wanted to point out the iOS app provided by the operating system does do
> one thing the app provided by Android does not.

If you're an adult, badgolferman, you'll stop spouting that nonsense.
o I easily proved Chrome saves homescreen URLs quite perfectly so.
<https://i.postimg.cc/FzxPf1qM/chrome02.jpg>

Please do not be completely immune to basic facts already proven so.
o It's not becoming of an adult to be immune to basic obvious facts.

It's the purview of the child-like apologists to be immune to facts.
o Adults are expected to own adult cognitive systems, badgolferman.

If you still actually believe that Android Chrome doesn't save homescreen
URLs, then I think you misunderstood what the references I provided you
show, which would be an indication that you are immune to facts
badgolferman.

Remember when Snit couldn't get Android to record video and audio a few
years back? I proved, easily, that I could do it - but - just like you are
being much like Snit was - just because Snit couldn't do it, he posted
something like 200 times that Android couldn't do it - even as I proved
beyond a shadow of a doubt that I did it and even better, that it was a
native functionality in Android to record audio & video.

So please, badgolferman - separate your inability to do something from the
facts; otherwise, you'd be no better than Snit and the other apologists.

As you know, I can't remove Chrome from my system, much as I would love to:
<https://i.postimg.cc/kX4dCg2M/chrome01.jpg>

Obviously I have Chrome hidden from view on my well-organized homescreen:
<https://i.postimg.cc/4yxZtXYW/webicon01.jpg>
(Which is, apparently, something so simple & yet impossible on iOS, AFAIK.)

Since I have Chrome "somewhere" on my system, the app drawer can find it:
<https://i.postimg.cc/qRjtqpZj/appdrawer01.jpg>
(Much like spotlight, as I understand it, on iOS can "find" an app.)

Unfortunately, even though Chrome is "there", I've somehow apparently
disabled Chrome it seems (who knows how, but I delete EVERYTHING I can find
that is related to Google and I back all non-wanted system apps to their
original factory configuration - which Android easily allows you to do).

However, since my credibility is important, I proved on another LG Stylo 3
Plus phone (I bought plenty) that it's easily done with the "native" Chrome
browser - so please stop spouting that it can't be done on Android.

The fact appears to be that _you_ might not be able to do it; but I easily
did it - and even before that - I easily proved that it's documented.

So please do NOT be like Snit, nospam, Lewis, Alan Baker, Jolly Roger,
Chris, BK, Joerg, et al., that simply because _you_ can't figure out how to
do it, that doesn't mean that it can be done ...
o Because I proved it's documented & I proved that I did it myself.

It's a basic trait of the apologists to be immune to facts
o Please STOP saying this can't be done simply because _you_ can't do it.

It takes longer to document this for you than to just do it in Chrome!
<https://i.postimg.cc/FzxPf1qM/chrome02.jpg>

> I wish iOS would allow

> other apps to become default, but they donÿt.

The one good thing about you, badgolferman, and even Steve Scharf, is that
you realize the failings of the walled garden, which simply limits what
people can do on iOS, period.

In the end, since Apple has no advantage over, oh, say, Samsung, in
technology, that means these simple logical factual assessments will most
likely be true in the long run:
(a) Apple has no technology advantage over everyone else
(b) And, in fact, Apple's competition is truly fierce (e.g., modem tech)
(g) In addition, for whatever reason, the wall in the walled garden exists

Given those three basic logical sensible facts, the logical assessment of
that fact is what I've been claiming, with evidence, for years:
(A) Android will _always_ have more app functionality than iOS, period.
(B) There will almost never be _any_ useful functionality on iOS, not
already on Android.

Logic and sense dictate these results, simply becuase, for whatever reason,
Apple limits the app functionality that ends up on the iTunes App Store.

Only the apologists brazenly deny that obvious salient fact, badgolferman.
o Do not stoop to the level of the child-like apologists, please.

Why do the apologists the these facts?

o I don't know why.

The fact apologists incessantly brazenly claim iOS functionality that
simply doesn't exist on the iTunes App Store is proof that the apologists
brazenly fabricate functionality that simply doesn't exist.

These apologists own imaginary belief systems, badgolferman.
o Please never prove to me that your belief system is imaginary.

You need to own up to the simple fact that just because _you_ can't seem to
make Chrome on Android save to the desktop a web-url icon, I certainly can:
<https://i.postimg.cc/FzxPf1qM/chrome02.jpg>

> Sometimes you can change
> options in certain apps that launch other apps to open one that is
> non-native though.

Yes. Every app on both platforms has "options" which change the
functionality.

But the fact remains, the three myths were easily busted:
*MYTH #1 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/FzxPf1qM/chrome02.jpg>

*MYTH #2 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/HnSRwPHZ/websms03.jpg>

*MYTH #3 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/sDtBKTYn/mute02.jpg>

> Yes, this is a trivial example which the vast majority of users will never

> use so maybe itÿs not needed (according to nospam) and should be
> eliminated.

Let's converse like adults badgolferman
o Which means you need to comprehend basic logic, sense, & reason.

I listed the logical sensible reasons why iOS app functionality available
on the iTunes App Store will likely _always_ pale in comparison to Android
app functionality available in the Android respositories.

The reason is simple:
a. Apple has no technical advantage (and vice versa) over Android.
b. Apple _limits_ app functionality on the iTunes App Store

Those two facts alone literally DETERMINE that iOS app functionality will
pale in comparison to Android app functionality available on Android
repositories.

I'm not afraid of facts badgolferman
o And my credibility is stellar (which you must admit is a fact).

The question here is whether there is _any_ iOS app functionality available
on the Apple App Store that is NOT already on Android repositories.
o Name just one

While I already listed lots of Android app functionality not on iOS,
the question remains if there is _any_ useful app functionality on the iOS
App Store that isn't already on Android.

Is there?

If so, I simply ask adult iOS users this simple adult question:
o Name just one

--
As with Snit, the fact that an apologists can't do something as simple as
save a web url in Chrome, despite the fact it's extremely well documented,
seems to indicate that some people own a belief system immune to facts.

[Arlen Holder]

UPDATE:

*MYTH #1 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/FzxPf1qM/chrome02.jpg>
*MYTH #2 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/HnSRwPHZ/websms03.jpg>
*MYTH #3 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/sDtBKTYn/mute02.jpg>

The question remains:

Q: Is there _any_ app functionality available on the Apple App Store that
performs functionality that you, as an adult, find useful, that is not
already available on the Android repositories.

If so...

o Name just one.

--

Disclaimer: We're not comparing apps against apps since there will _always_
be differences, even on the same platform, and we're not talking about
brand names or trademark names; we are talking fundamentally useful app
functionality (e.g., such as the ability to autorecord phone calls).

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 18 Nov 2019 10:46:58 +0000, Chronos wrote:

>> why would the Chrome browser NOT save the web URL to
>> the desktop on iOS
>

> Because iOS' "desktop" is actually a proprietary categorised
> launcher which doesn't have this functionality, whereas the launcher(s -
> there's no One Launcher to Rule Them All) and the underlying framework
> on Android are deliberately designed to allow third party links and
> app shortcuts to appear, including those from the browser, whatever that
> may be.
>
> The differences are not down to the browser being used.

Agreed.
o It's trivial for adults to agree on facts & assessments of those fact.

It's not unusual on the Android newsgroups to find adults who comprehend
basic facts such as those you mention above; but it is rare on the iOS
newsgroups to find adults who are not immune to these basic facts.

The fact remains:
(a) The iOS ecosystem is designed, unilaterally by Apple to be restrictive
in what the apps and users can do. (Why? I won't say. It just is.)

(b) The Android ecosystem is designed, from the start, to be vastly less
restrictive in what apps can do (e.g., I use the Nova Free app launcher,
which is fantastic, but where I can switch the default launcher between any
number of launchers at will).

The most important fact after those two is this:
(A) Apple has no technological competitive advantage over anyone else
(B) Worse, the competition is fierce (e.g., Qualcomm modem technology)

Hence, the logical sensible reasonable assessment of those facts is:
(1) The iOS ecosystem will _always_ pale in functionality comparison with
the Android ecosystem.

While we already showed, quite easily, lots of Android functionality not on
iOS, e.g.,

o Ability to automatically record phone calls
o Ability to change the default application to anything you want
o Ability to load any app launcher you might want
o Ability to record WiFi signal strength for all access points over time
o Ability to organize your home screen any way you feel like doing it
o Ability to completely remove the manufacturer ID & advertiser ID
o Ability to run the bona-fide real Tor Browser (not fakes)
o Ability to instantly turn the device into a read/write USB stick
o Ability to list all apps to the device from the device into any format
o Ability to automatically archive any and all IPAs/APKs to the device
o Ability to backup & restore to/from the device sans using the cloud
o Ability to obtain apps from any reliable repository you might desire
o Ability to archive at any time any APK/IPA on the phone to the phone
o Ability to change app icon names to anything you want them to be
o Ability to have an "app drawer" feature to make organization easier
etc.

The key question of this thread remains:
Q: Is there _any_ app functionality available naticve or on the Apple App

Store that performs functionality that you, as an adult, find useful, that
is not already available on the Android repositories.

If so...I ask any adult who believes this to be the case ... simply...

[sms]

On 11/18/2019 8:27 AM, badgolferman wrote:

<snip>

> Yes, this is a trivial example which the vast majority of users will never
> use so maybe it’s not needed (according to nospam) and should be
> eliminated.

You know, we've constantly seen the rationale, usually by posters like
nospam, that some feature or capability that's not present or not
possible on iOS devices is no big deal because “most users” don't need
it, it's a stock response by those who have no coherent reply.

But a) we don't know how many users actually would use a particular
feature if it existed, b) there are many apps that can't even be written
for iOS because of limitations in the operating system or the hardware,
c) even when only a few percent of users want a specific feature that's
millions of users, or to paraphrase the late Senator Everett McKinley
Dirkse “a million here, a million there, and pretty soon you’re talking
about a real number of users.” There are an estimated 900 million
iPhones currently in use. If 2% of users want a specific feature then
that’s 18 million users. And that doesn’t include iPads.

Steve Jobs once said, “A lot of times, people don't know what they want
until you show it to them.” Well here’s the problem--people that
switched from Android phones to the iPhone often do know what they want
because it was shown to them, they liked it, and they used it. And then
they switched to the iPhone without the slightest idea that a useful,
seemingly obvious, feature or application that they used on their
Android phone would not, and could not, be available on their iPhone.

These are not features that would be difficult to implement or that
would require extra hardware in the phone. We’re not talking about
headphone jacks, MicroSD card slots, removable batteries, or dual SIM
card slots. We’re talking about things like true multi-tasking, separate
volume controls for calls and notifications, allowing apps to access
NMEA data from the GPS, allowing apps to access the NFC hardware, and
better Bluetooth support.

Some things we have gotten on iOS devices because of user demand and
because the competition had the feature. Wireless charging appeared with
the iPhone 8, two years after Samsung introduced it on the Galaxy S6.
Mouse support appeared this year on the iPad Pro to compete with the
Microsoft Surface Pro. Touch ID is predicted to be coming back next
year. USB-C is predicted for the iPhone 12. There could be an iPhone
model with Apple Pencil support (Tim Cook once mentioned this in an
interview, stating “If you’ve ever seen what can be created with that
pencil on an iPad or an iPhone, it’s really unbelievable … “ Was that
just a slip, or is an Apple Pencil a possibility on a future
large-screen iPhone?

One recent event that portends more functional products is the new 16”
Macbook
<https://www.cultofmac.com/666414/16-inch-macbook-pro-jony-ive-apple-opinion/>.
The 16:” Macbook actually got a tiny bit thicker, but it doesn’t have
the troublesome Butterfly keyboard, they went back to an older, slightly
thicker keyboard
<https://www.cultofmac.com/665504/phil-schiller-explains-how-a-magic-keyboard-made-it-into-macbook-pro/>.
So we may see more products with "function over form" instead of the
reverse.

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 18 Nov 2019 13:35:53 -0800, sms wrote:

> You know, we've constantly seen the rationale, usually by posters like
> nospam, that some feature or capability that's not present or not
> possible on iOS devices is no big deal because ¨most users〃 don't need
> it, it's a stock response by those who have no coherent reply.

Yup. There is a _reason_ they're called "apologists".
o They only have 7 basic responses to facts they simply don't like.

None of which are adult responses.
(It's like nospam claiming Apple "wasn't worried" about the lack of 5G!)

Apple was so worried that they spent BILLIONS to get access to 5G that they
'weren't worried' about in the least, according to nospam.

As another example, do you, Steve, believe nospam when he claims to have
told us many times how to do something on iOS we know to be impossible?

Does nospam really think he's fooling anyone with his brazen lies?

> But a) we don't know how many users actually would use a particular
> feature if it existed

Steve, I use a very simple metric:
o If the apps abound by the scores on Google Play, then it's useful

For example,
o Automatic phone recording apps
o App launchers
o App drawers
o WiFi graphical displays
o App archival apps (packaging right off the phone)
o App listing apps (listing to all sorts of editable formats)
etc.

All these are the types of apps which exist in droves, where apologists
like nospam constantly make apologies for why they're not on the Apple App
Store.

> b) there are many apps that can't even be written
> for iOS because of limitations in the operating system or the hardware,

Mike Tegas said as much, bless his heart, but NOBODY can write an anonymity
app, apparently, on iOS that has the anonymity of the official Tor Browser,
for example.

> c) even when only a few percent of users want a specific feature that's
> millions of users, or to paraphrase the late Senator Everett McKinley

> Dirkse ¨a million here, a million there, and pretty soon youˇre talking

> about a real number of users.〃 There are an estimated 900 million
> iPhones currently in use. If 2% of users want a specific feature then

> thatˇs 18 million users. And that doesnˇt include iPads.

My metric is simple:
o If the app functionality exists in dozens on Google Play, it's useful.

> Steve Jobs once said, ¨A lot of times, people don't know what they want

> until you show it to them.〃 Well hereˇs the problem--people that

> switched from Android phones to the iPhone often do know what they want
> because it was shown to them, they liked it, and they used it. And then
> they switched to the iPhone without the slightest idea that a useful,
> seemingly obvious, feature or application that they used on their
> Android phone would not, and could not, be available on their iPhone.

It's literally shocking that the simplest of things, are impossible on iOS.
o It's why I've often said the iOS user "just gives up" all day, every day.

They can't even change the name of an app icon, for example!
o They can't even organize their home screen the way they want.

They can barely do anything - and yet - they're happy doing nothing.
(Apparently).

I think it's a special kind of person willing to accept the prison rules.
o And they're actually HAPPY to live under the Draconian rules.

Notice though, some of them line up at two-year intervals simply because
they can't wait to get RID of their current phone, their loyalty being that
high to the brand, but that dismally low to the phone (paradoxically).

Why do they love the brand - but ditch the phone at the 1st chance they
get? I don't know why. You tell me. All I know is that's what I observe
that they do (which makes no sense to me, particularly with the resale
losses being tremendous compared to, oh, say, my $130 LG Stylo 3 Plus
bought 2 years ago which sells for quite a large percentage of that today).

> These are not features that would be difficult to implement or that

> would require extra hardware in the phone. Weˇre not talking about

> headphone jacks, MicroSD card slots, removable batteries, or dual SIM

> card slots. Weˇre talking about things like true multi-tasking, separate

> volume controls for calls and notifications, allowing apps to access
> NMEA data from the GPS, allowing apps to access the NFC hardware, and
> better Bluetooth support.

Don't forget they can't even graph their WiFi, which means none of them
ever tried even once in their entire lives to set up and debug a basic home
wifi setup.

Nor can they automatically record phone calls.

They can't even organize their desktop the way _they_ would want it.

They're crippled - and yet - they don't even realize how brain dead their
software turns out to be.

They can't even do something as simple as list all the installed apps to an
editable format on the phone.

Worse, if Apple no longer has the version of app they want, they can't just
archive the one that's installed and plop it onto any other iOS device on
the planet like we can do on Android.

It's shocking how much they have to give up day in and day out.
The funny thing is that nospam's defense is that (a) who wants to do that
stuff (simply because he can't do it), and (b), we just don't know how.

This last one is funny because he follow up with the claim that he's told
us many times, where I wonder if any adult believes a word he says?

Do you, Steve, believe nospam when he claims to have told us many times how
to do something on iOS we know to be impossible?

> Some things we have gotten on iOS devices because of user demand and
> because the competition had the feature. Wireless charging appeared with
> the iPhone 8, two years after Samsung introduced it on the Galaxy S6.

You'll also get 5G, but boy oh boy, did Apple pay dearly for that (which
means you, the customer, is footing the astoundingly huge 5G bill).

> Mouse support appeared this year on the iPad Pro to compete with the
> Microsoft Surface Pro. Touch ID is predicted to be coming back next
> year. USB-C is predicted for the iPhone 12. There could be an iPhone
> model with Apple Pencil support (Tim Cook once mentioned this in an

> interview, stating ¨If youˇve ever seen what can be created with that
> pencil on an iPad or an iPhone, itˇs really unbelievable  ¨ Was that

> just a slip, or is an Apple Pencil a possibility on a future
> large-screen iPhone?

Almost everything Tim Cook says, IMHO, is extremely carefully scripted,
where Tim has telegraphed, for example, his dire need to hide the true cost
of the iPhone & iPad, which he's doing in a few significant ways.

[nospam]

In article <qqv2rs$78n$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> You know, we've constantly seen the rationale, usually by posters like
> nospam, that some feature or capability that's not present or not

> possible on iOS devices is no big deal because łmost users˛ don't need

> it, it's a stock response by those who have no coherent reply.

ad hominem.

> But a) we don't know how many users actually would use a particular
> feature if it existed, b) there are many apps that can't even be written
> for iOS because of limitations in the operating system or the hardware,

not that many, and the reverse is also true.

there are 'many apps' that can't be written for android devices due to
limitations in the os and/or hardware, which are very easy to do on
ios.

*every* device has limitations.

> c) even when only a few percent of users want a specific feature that's
> millions of users, or to paraphrase the late Senator Everett McKinley

> Dirkse ła million here, a million there, and pretty soon youąre talking
> about a real number of users.˛

no company has unlimited resources, therefore they must prioritize what
features to implement based on what will benefit the most people.

> There are an estimated 900 million
> iPhones currently in use. If 2% of users want a specific feature then

> thatąs 18 million users. And that doesnąt include iPads.

if 50% want a different feature, then that's 450 million users.

guess which one is most likely to be in the next release.

hint: it's not the 2% one.

> Steve Jobs once said, łA lot of times, people don't know what they want
> until you show it to them.˛ Well hereąs the problem--people that

> switched from Android phones to the iPhone often do know what they want
> because it was shown to them, they liked it, and they used it. And then
> they switched to the iPhone without the slightest idea that a useful,
> seemingly obvious, feature or application that they used on their
> Android phone would not, and could not, be available on their iPhone.

the reverse is also true.

many times people switch to android and want to know why they can't do
all of the things they were doing on ios.

some people switch to iphone to be able to do things that are difficult
to impossible on android.

no device does everything.

choose the device which best fits one's needs.

> These are not features that would be difficult to implement or that

> would require extra hardware in the phone. Weąre not talking about

> headphone jacks, MicroSD card slots, removable batteries, or dual SIM

> card slots. Weąre talking about things like true multi-tasking, separate

> volume controls for calls and notifications, allowing apps to access
> NMEA data from the GPS, allowing apps to access the NFC hardware, and
> better Bluetooth support.

true multitasking? are you fucking kidding?

not that there was any doubt, but you've just made it clear that you
are trolling.

ios has had true multi-tasking since day one, then called iphone os.
it's built on top of unix.

as for the rest, nfc is accessible and offers more functionality than
on android, nmea is extremely niche, but even with that, android
location services still can't do what ios core location can do, and ios
was the first mobile device with bluetooth le and among the first with
bluetooth 5, making its bluetooth support as good or better than
android.

> Some things we have gotten on iOS devices because of user demand and
> because the competition had the feature. Wireless charging appeared with
> the iPhone 8, two years after Samsung introduced it on the Galaxy S6.

the reverse is also true.

two years after apple introduced face id on the iphone x, google
released the pixel 4 with face unlock that's almost as good and the
closest any android device so far.

except that it unlocks when the user's eyes are closed, so it's not
quite there yet. google has stated they will fix that at some unknown
point in the future.

meanwhile, samsung's face unlock is easily spoofed with a photo, still
to this day.

that's just one example of many.

no device does everything.

> Mouse support appeared this year on the iPad Pro to compete with the
> Microsoft Surface Pro.

no it definitely didn't.

apple has stated that mouse support appeared specifically for those
with motor skill impairments and struggle with a touch-based ui.

however, the feature is not limited to only those users.

it was *never* intended to compete with the microsoft surface, which
isn't competition in any way, especially since it doesn't sell well and
has a lot of reliability problems.

<https://photos5.appleinsider.com/gallery/33312-58244-ApplevsSurface-xl.
jpg>

<https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2017/8/10/16125294/microsoft-su
rface-consumer-reports-hardware-freezing-shutdowns-problems>
25 percent of Surface owners have had problems within two years of
buying one

> Touch ID is predicted to be coming back next
> year.

no it isn't.

> USB-C is predicted for the iPhone 12.

no it isn't.

> There could be an iPhone
> model with Apple Pencil support (Tim Cook once mentioned this in an

> interview, stating łIf youąve ever seen what can be created with that
> pencil on an iPad or an iPhone, itąs really unbelievable Š ł Was that

> just a slip, or is an Apple Pencil a possibility on a future
> large-screen iPhone?

that's not likely for several reasons.

> One recent event that portends more functional products is the new 16˛
> Macbook
>
> <https://www.cultofmac.com/666414/16-inch-macbook-pro-jony-ive-apple-opinion/>.
>

> The 16:˛ Macbook actually got a tiny bit thicker, but it doesnąt have

> the troublesome Butterfly keyboard, they went back to an older, slightly
> thicker keyboard
> <https://www.cultofmac.com/665504/phil-schiller-explains-how-a-magic-keyboard-made-it-into-macbook-pro/>.
> So we may see more products with "function over form" instead of the
> reverse.

contrary to what trolls want people to think, apple's products are very
much function over form, *not* the reverse.

look no further than their battery cases, which most people think have
an ugly hump:
<https://boygeniusreport.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/iphone-6s-battery-c
ase-2.jpg>
<https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/62980190/jbareham_19
0131_3203_0008.0.jpg>

the reason for that hump is *functional*, so that the battery doesn't
block the antennas at the top (and bottom on older models).

third party cases cover the entire back of the phone, which blocks the
antennas and causes the phone to ramp up power to compensate, resulting
in faster battery drain and negating the advantage of a battery case.
not a good design at all.

the hump also makes it easier to hold the phone and to attach/remove
it, both additional functional benefits.

[Your Name]

On 2019-11-18 21:35:53 +0000, sms said:
> On 11/18/2019 8:27 AM, badgolferman wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Yes, this is a trivial example which the vast majority of users will never
>> use so maybe it's not needed (according to nospam) and should be
>> eliminated.
>
> You know, we've constantly seen the rationale, usually by posters like
> nospam, that some feature or capability that's not present or not
> possible on iOS devices is no big deal because "most users" don't need
> it, it's a stock response by those who have no coherent reply.

Pretty much every non-basic feature on every device is not needed (or
even known about) by the vast majority of the users. It's only the
"hard core" or "pro" users, and the whining know-nothing trolls that
worry about such silliness.

Same goes for many other markets, such as all the twiddly gimmicks
going into cars that the vast majority of drivers will never use or
even know exist.

As long as a device does the basics of what's it's meant to do, the
rest is largely useless gimmickry to sell new devicves to the "must
upgrade" fools. Do you need an 8K TV ... no, because pretty much nobody
actually broadcasts in 4K, let alone 8K (many places are still trying
to get to HD).

Mouse support was added as an assistive feature for those who have
difficulty with touch interfaces. The fact that everybody else can also
use it is just a side effect. It certainly has bugger all to do with
Microsloth devices having such a feature ... Apple doesn't waste time
chasing what others do, Apple adds features when Apple wants to.

Wireless charging is a good example. Apple announced a wireless
charging pad and then cancelled it when they thought it didn't work
well enough, but there are other such devices with makers who think it
is good enough for them (or at least good enough to con people into
paying for it, which can be a completely different concept).

> Touch ID is predicted to be coming back next year. USB-C is predicted
> for the iPhone 12. There could be an iPhone model with Apple Pencil
> support (Tim Cook once mentioned this in an interview, stating "If
> you've ever seen what can be created with that pencil on an iPad or an

> iPhone, it's really unbelievable ... " Was that just a slip, or is an

> Apple Pencil a possibility on a future large-screen iPhone?

There are literally tons of rumours and Apple has thousands of patents,
none of which ever see the light of day in an actual released device.

> One recent event that portends more functional products is the new 16"
> Macbook
> <https://www.cultofmac.com/666414/16-inch-macbook-pro-jony-ive-apple-opinion/>.
> The 16:" Macbook actually got a tiny bit thicker, but it doesn't have
> the troublesome Butterfly keyboard, they went back to an older,
> slightly thicker keyboard
> <https://www.cultofmac.com/665504/phil-schiller-explains-how-a-magic-keyboard-made-it-into-macbook-pro/>.
> So we may see more products with "function over form" instead of the
> reverse.

The 16in MacBook Pro does use a scissor system, but it's not actually
the same as the old version. It's a tweaked, "better" version. The
rumour is that the same new scissor design will be in the 13in MacBooks
early next year.

With Jonny Ive now gone, you might well see Apple making products more
useful and functional, such as being slightly thicker to accommodate
something properly done. Jonny Ive is simply a cretin who puts design
over usability - he's great as a box designer, bloody useless as a
hardware engineer or software designer, hence things like the
"trashcan" Mac Pro and the non-user-upgradeable iMacs.

[nospam]

In article <qqvdv9$cvf$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Your Name

<Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:

>
> With Jonny Ive now gone, you might well see Apple making products more
> useful and functional, such as being slightly thicker to accommodate
> something properly done.

apple products have mostly been getting thicker, particularly the
iphone.

[sms]

On 11/18/2019 4:45 PM, Your Name wrote:

<snip>

> Pretty much every non-basic feature on every device is not needed (or
> even known about) by the vast majority of the users. It's only the "hard
> core" or "pro" users, and the whining know-nothing trolls that worry
> about such silliness.

Untrue. One example is the inability to set different volumes for the
ringer and for notifications. This is a feature available on many
Android phones by default, and on others with the use of an app.

It's a feature that's regularly requested by iPhone users. It would be
trivial to implement and would not require any additional hardware.

Genius Bar employees recommend a very kludgy workaround for this issue
and admit that it's a feature that is often inquired about. Remember, if
one person asks how to do something, there's ten thousand that want to
do the same thing but believe that there's no point in asking.
<https://discussions.apple.com/thread/8308524>
<https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/7fuz5t/apple_when_can_we_have_independend_volume/>
<https://forums.imore.com/iphone-4s/225170-separate-volumes-ringtone-ringer.html>
...and many more.

Hard to figure this one out unless there is some competitor's patent
that precludes separate volume controls.

<snip>

> Mouse support was added as an assistive feature for those who have
> difficulty with touch interfaces. The fact that everybody else can also
> use it is just a side effect. It certainly has bugger all to do with
> Microsloth devices having such a feature ... Apple doesn't waste time
> chasing what others do, Apple adds features when Apple wants to.

Incorrect. In this case it has everything to do with user demand. People
want to use iPads as a thin and light "netbook" with a keyboard and a
mouse. Schools especially wanted this capability and it was causing
schools to adopt Chomebooks instead of iPads
<https://www.macworld.com/article/3267207/apples-new-ipads-still-cant-best-chromebooks-in-the-classroom.html>.
The fact that they hid it under assistive touch is immaterial and is
more of a face-saving gesture than anything else. But it may be too
little too late for both the education market and the business market.

> Wireless charging is a good example. Apple announced a wireless charging
> pad and then cancelled it when they thought it didn't work well enough,
> but there are other such devices with makers who think it is good enough
> for them (or at least good enough to con people into paying for it,
> which can be a completely different concept).

There is no other Qi charger that does what Apple tried to do. The
design for position-agnostic multi-coil chargers that detect the
placement of the device-under charge predates what Apple attempted.
Apple ran into thermal issues that the other designs solved with cooling
fans, but you can be certain that a fan was not going to be included in
a charging pad from Apple
<https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/17/airpower-delay-due-to-overheating-reports.html>.
And with wireless charging becoming pervasive, and Qi chargers selling
for $10-15, there was probably little market for a wireless charger that
would likely have had to sell for $100 or more.

> There are literally tons of rumours and Apple has thousands of patents,
> none of which ever see the light of day in an actual released device.

Yes, you have to be careful to look at the record of the analysts making
predictions and separate wild rumors from informed prediction. Ming-Chi
Kuo, who has a pretty stellar record, stated that an under-screen
biometric fingerprint reader won't be available until the 2021 iPhone
<https://9to5mac.com/2019/08/05/iphone-face-id-touch-id>. There are
compelling reasons to bring back TouchID in addition to retaining
FaceID, "the all-new Touch ID is not designed to replace Face ID but to
augment it, giving users both an alternative unlock option as well as
military grade security by combining both in hypersensitive situations.
Yes, payments would be one example, but Apple is thinking bigger already
having filed plans for iPhones to replace your passport and that’s where
dual biometrics are crucial."

> The 16in MacBook Pro does use a scissor system, but it's not actually
> the same as the old version. It's a tweaked, "better" version. The
> rumour is that the same new scissor design will be in the 13in MacBooks
> early next year.

Good news, and it should help sales of Macbooks as those that have been
putting off upgrading because of the keyboard issues finally buy new
machines, "Apple's Mac sales could potentially be suffering due to the
negative publicity surrounding the butterfly keyboard issues in the
MacBook, ‌MacBook Air‌, and ‌MacBook Pro‌, a problem that has become
increasingly visible due to its impact on even the newest Mac notebooks"
<https://www.macrumors.com/2019/04/10/mac-shipments-down-q1-2019-gartner/>
and <https://www.macrumors.com/2019/10/10/mac-shipments-q3-2019-gartner/>.

> With Jonny Ive now gone, you might well see Apple making products more
> useful and functional, such as being slightly thicker to accommodate
> something properly done. Jonny Ive is simply a cretin who puts design
> over usability - he's great as a box designer, bloody useless as a
> hardware engineer or software designer, hence things like the "trashcan"
> Mac Pro and the non-user-upgradeable iMacs.

Hopefully it's a new era where an extra mm or two is seen as a
worthwhile trade-off to gain more functionality. OTOH, industrial design
is still extremely important, just as long as it's not taken to extremes.

Now if they could just do a Macbook with Apple Pencil support. Yesterday
I set up a system for a senior who required a screen with touch support.
She got a 17" HP laptop with a touch screen, but a touch screen with an
active stylus would have been better but there are not yet any 17"
Windows laptops with Windows Ink support.

[Your Name]

On 2019-11-19 04:03:25 +0000, sms said:

> On 11/18/2019 4:45 PM, Your Name wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Pretty much every non-basic feature on every device is not needed (or
>> even known about) by the vast majority of the users. It's only the
>> "hard core" or "pro" users, and the whining know-nothing trolls that
>> worry about such silliness.
>
> Untrue. One example is the inability to set different volumes for the
> ringer and for notifications. This is a feature available on many
> Android phones by default, and on others with the use of an app.
>
> It's a feature that's regularly requested by iPhone users. It would be
> trivial to implement and would not require any additional hardware.

<snip>

It's still not a feature that most people care about or even use / would use.

The vast majority of people just use the very basic features of their
devices and don't know 99% of what else they can (or can't) do ... and
couldn't care less.

>> Mouse support was added as an assistive feature for those who have
>> difficulty with touch interfaces. The fact that everybody else can also
>> use it is just a side effect. It certainly has bugger all to do with
>> Microsloth devices having such a feature ... Apple doesn't waste time
>> chasing what others do, Apple adds features when Apple wants to.
>
> Incorrect. In this case it has everything to do with user demand.
> People want to use iPads as a thin and light "netbook" with a keyboard
> and a mouse. Schools especially wanted this capability and it was
> causing schools to adopt Chomebooks instead of iPads
> <https://www.macworld.com/article/3267207/apples-new-ipads-still-cant-best-chromebooks-in-the-classroom.html>.
> The fact that they hid it under assistive touch is immaterial and is
> more of a face-saving gesture than anything else. But it may be too
> little too late for both the education market and the business market.

It's under assistive features because it was designed to be an
assistive feature ... not a general feature. It has nothing to do with
supposed "user demand" (other than perhaps disabled user and their
advocates wanting to be able to use touchscreen devices).

Most users won't be using and don't want to use a mouse with their
iPads, let alone iPhones or iPod Touche devices.

>> Wireless charging is a good example. Apple announced a wireless
>> charging pad and then cancelled it when they thought it didn't work
>> well enough, but there are other such devices with makers who think it
>> is good enough for them (or at least good enough to con people into
>> paying for it, which can be a completely different concept).
>
> There is no other Qi charger that does what Apple tried to do.

<snip>

I never said "Qi charger". I simply said "wireless charger".

>> There are literally tons of rumours and Apple has thousands of patents,
>> none of which ever see the light of day in an actual released device.
>
> Yes, you have to be careful to look at the record of the analysts
> making predictions and separate wild rumors from informed prediction.
> Ming-Chi Kuo, who has a pretty stellar record,

<snip>

And yet, like all fools trying to predict the future, is still often wrong.

[nospam]

In article <qqvpig$id5$1...@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf...@geemail.com> spewed:

> > Pretty much every non-basic feature on every device is not needed (or
> > even known about) by the vast majority of the users. It's only the "hard
> > core" or "pro" users, and the whining know-nothing trolls that worry
> > about such silliness.
>
> Untrue.

it is true.

most people use only a small fraction of the capabilities of a modern
smartphone and could easily get by with a lesser spec device.

power users, such as those who shoot and edit photos and videos on
their phone, are very atypical.

> One example is the inability to set different volumes for the
> ringer and for notifications. This is a feature available on many
> Android phones by default, and on others with the use of an app.

it's *not* a high demand feature, plus it's possible to do on ios,
although not as easy as it could be.

do not assume that something is forbidden because you don't know how to
do it.

> It's a feature that's regularly requested by iPhone users. It would be
> trivial to implement and would not require any additional hardware.

it's not regularly requested, and it's not trivial to implement either.

> Genius Bar employees recommend a very kludgy workaround for this issue
> and admit that it's a feature that is often inquired about.

no.

> Remember, if
> one person asks how to do something, there's ten thousand that want to
> do the same thing but believe that there's no point in asking.

fabricated numbers.

> Hard to figure this one out unless there is some competitor's patent
> that precludes separate volume controls.

nonsense.

>
> > Mouse support was added as an assistive feature for those who have
> > difficulty with touch interfaces. The fact that everybody else can also
> > use it is just a side effect. It certainly has bugger all to do with
> > Microsloth devices having such a feature ... Apple doesn't waste time
> > chasing what others do, Apple adds features when Apple wants to.
>
> Incorrect.

nope. the above is correct.

ios mouse support is an assistive feature, designed specifically for
those with motor skill impairments, according to statements made by
apple.

> In this case it has everything to do with user demand. People
> want to use iPads as a thin and light "netbook" with a keyboard and a
> mouse.

not very many, and those that do get an actual netbook.

> Schools especially wanted this capability and it was causing
> schools to adopt Chomebooks instead of iPads

nope.

schools choose chromebooks mostly due to price and also because they're
very easy to manage for students.

although schools do use ipads, that's not their intended market.

> <https://www.macworld.com/article/3267207/apples-new-ipads-still-cant-best-chr
> omebooks-in-the-classroom.html>.

that doesn't support your claims.

> The fact that they hid it under assistive touch is immaterial and is
> more of a face-saving gesture than anything else. But it may be too
> little too late for both the education market and the business market.

they didn't hide it under assistive touch.

it's an assistive feature, so that's where it goes.

simple concept.

> > Wireless charging is a good example. Apple announced a wireless charging
> > pad and then cancelled it when they thought it didn't work well enough,
> > but there are other such devices with makers who think it is good enough
> > for them (or at least good enough to con people into paying for it,
> > which can be a completely different concept).
>
> There is no other Qi charger that does what Apple tried to do. The
> design for position-agnostic multi-coil chargers that detect the
> placement of the device-under charge predates what Apple attempted.

that's a contradiction.

> Apple ran into thermal issues that the other designs solved with cooling
> fans,

nobody outside of apple knows why it was canceled, therefore any claim
as to the reason is purely speculation.

> but you can be certain that a fan was not going to be included in
> a charging pad from Apple

of course not, nor did anyone expect it would.

> <https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/17/airpower-delay-due-to-overheating-reports.htm
> l>.

speculation.

> And with wireless charging becoming pervasive, and Qi chargers selling
> for $10-15, there was probably little market for a wireless charger that
> would likely have had to sell for $100 or more.

the qi chargers that sell for $10-15 are crap and nobody knows what
airpower's price would have been.

there are wireless chargers that cost more than $100 and do less than
what airpower was going to do.

> > There are literally tons of rumours and Apple has thousands of patents,
> > none of which ever see the light of day in an actual released device.
>
> Yes, you have to be careful to look at the record of the analysts making
> predictions and separate wild rumors from informed prediction. Ming-Chi
> Kuo, who has a pretty stellar record, stated that an under-screen
> biometric fingerprint reader won't be available until the 2021 iPhone

he also said the 16" macbook pro would be delayed until 2020.

obviously, he got that one wrong.

his record may be good, but it is not perfect.

> <https://9to5mac.com/2019/08/05/iphone-face-id-touch-id>. There are
> compelling reasons to bring back TouchID in addition to retaining
> FaceID,

no there aren't, other than possibly for a low end entry level iphone
due to touch id being much less expensive than face id hardware.

> "the all-new Touch ID is not designed to replace Face ID but to
> augment it, giving users both an alternative unlock option as well as
> military grade security by combining both in hypersensitive situations.
> Yes, payments would be one example, but Apple is thinking bigger already

> having filed plans for iPhones to replace your passport and that零 where
> dual biometrics are crucial."

that quote is not in the above link, nor is it correct.

>
> > With Jonny Ive now gone, you might well see Apple making products more
> > useful and functional, such as being slightly thicker to accommodate
> > something properly done. Jonny Ive is simply a cretin who puts design
> > over usability - he's great as a box designer, bloody useless as a
> > hardware engineer or software designer, hence things like the "trashcan"
> > Mac Pro and the non-user-upgradeable iMacs.
>
> Hopefully it's a new era where an extra mm or two is seen as a
> worthwhile trade-off to gain more functionality.

thin for the sake of being thin was never their goal.

> OTOH, industrial design
> is still extremely important, just as long as it's not taken to extremes.

of course, and it hasn't been taken to extreme.

> Now if they could just do a Macbook with Apple Pencil support.

that's not going to happen for all sorts of reasons, some of which are
*very* obvious.

however, an ipad with pencil can easily be used with a macbook.

> Yesterday
> I set up a system for a senior who required a screen with touch support.
> She got a 17" HP laptop with a touch screen, but a touch screen with an
> active stylus would have been better but there are not yet any 17"
> Windows laptops with Windows Ink support.

'required' ??

and one senior's desires does not justify an entirely new product.

[nospam]

In article <qqvsg0$a5v$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Your Name

<Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:

> On 2019-11-19 04:03:25 +0000, sms said:
> > The fact that they hid it under assistive touch is immaterial and is
> > more of a face-saving gesture than anything else. But it may be too
> > little too late for both the education market and the business market.
>
> It's under assistive features because it was designed to be an
> assistive feature ... not a general feature. It has nothing to do with
> supposed "user demand" (other than perhaps disabled user and their
> advocates wanting to be able to use touchscreen devices).
>
> Most users won't be using and don't want to use a mouse with their
> iPads, let alone iPhones or iPod Touche devices.

correct.

ios devices are designed for a touch ui, not a keyboard/mouse ui.

those who want the latter should get a laptop or even a desktop.

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 18 Nov 2019 18:54:30 -0500, nospam wrote:

>> You know, we've constantly seen the rationale, usually by posters like
>> nospam, that some feature or capability that's not present or not
>> possible on iOS devices is no big deal because łmost users˛ don't need
>> it, it's a stock response by those who have no coherent reply.
>
> ad hominem.

Hi nospam,

It's supremely interesting (and quite telling) that all Steve and I did was
point out EXACTLY what you said, and you consider YOUR OWN WORDS to be an
"ad hominem" attack.

I've studied you for years, nospam where you only have 7 responses to fact
o None of your responses to fact are an adult response.

In fabricating your never-ending child-like excuses for why iOS users can't
ever do what Android users easily do all day, every day, you brazenly lie
about imaginary functionality; you sadistically send innocent users on
fruitless wild-goose chases; you incessantly fabricate conversations that
never occurred; you duplicitously claim you told us how when the fact is
you deceptively lied about almost everything you've ever posted - often
easily proved by the fact you almost always have failed the simplest test
of your wholly imaginary belief systems (proving your brain is of a child).
o Name just one

If my simply pointing to EXACTLY what you write in response to facts..
o You consider an ad hominem attack - then you should grow up nospam.

Write a response to facts that an actual adult would write, nospam.

> there are 'many apps' that can't be written for android devices due to
> limitations in the os and/or hardware, which are very easy to do on
> ios.

Name just one.

> no device does everything.

And yet, while Android does plenty iOS can't hope to do...
o Nobody here has yet named even a _single_ app functionality iOS can do
that Android doesn't _already_ do.

The simplest tentative reasonable logical conclusion might easily be:
o Android does everything iOS can hope to do; iOS doesn't do what Android
can.

The adult rational reasonable sensible logic is rather obvious:
o Overall, Apple & Android users, together, have essentially similar needs
o Apple has no technology advantage over anyone else (& vice versa)
o The competition is fierce (witness how dismal Apple camera QOR is)
o Apple limits what apps can do.

The main advantage of Apple, IMHO, is superior marketing of imaginary
functionality to extremely gullible people (like you, nospam).
o For example the touting of purely imaginary privacy/security by Apple

Only the highly susceptible hugely gullible child-like people don't
comprehend that both privacy & security are chains with links where the
entire 100-link chain is what matters, not the five or ten strong links
Apple marketing highly touts to the extremely gullible Apple lovers
o We've proven Apple users tend to simply want to _feel_ safe.

It's the same with the annoying diarrhea of insecure iOS releases
o Where apologists tend to _feel_ safe simply by mere frequency of release

o When apologists claim iOS is "safer" than Android simply because of the "frequency" of release...
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/WzRDeuHmQoc/QGt-UNkADAAJ>

> two years after apple introduced face id on the iphone x, google
> released the pixel 4 with face unlock that's almost as good and the
> closest any android device so far.

Face ID is a brilliantly highly advertise purely marketing gimmick.
o What's more personal to utter imbecilic fools ... than their own face?

Apple sells this imaginary security gaining huge margins on their effort
o Google would _love_ to have the marketing of Apple.

iPhones are, admittedly, one of the most highly marketed devices on earth.
o So Google is perfectly happy to replicate Apple's marketing gimmicks.

o What is the most brilliant marketing move Apple ever made?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/wW-fu0jsvAU/s6gu-hj2BwAJ>

> contrary to what trolls want people to think, apple's products are very
> much function over form, *not* the reverse.

Here are the top dozen camera Quality of Results, at this very moment, by
the best known apples-to-apples tester of mobile device cameras on the
planet (where, yes, I know you hate anything that doesn't come out of the
mouth of Apple Marketing):
<https://www.dxomark.com/category/smartphone-reviews/>

Top dozen camera quality of results in detailed independent tests:
o 01 Huawei Mate 30 Pro (121) (93)
o 02 Xiaomi Mi CC9 Pro Premium Edition (121)
o 03 Apple iPhone 11 Pro Max (117) (71)
o 04 Samsung Galaxy Note 10+ 5G (117) (99) (66)
o 05 Samsung Galaxy Note 10+ (117) (66)
o 06 Huawei P30 Pro (116) (89)
o 07 Samsung Galaxy S10 5G (116) (97)
o 08 OnePlus 7 Pro (114) (86)
o 09 Honor 20 Pro (113) (85) (53)
o 10 Samsung Galaxy S10+ (113) (96) (65)
o 11 Google Pixel 4 (112) (92)
o 12 Huawei Mate 20 Pro (112) (75)

All the rest:
o 13 Xiaomi Mi 9 (110)
o 14 Huawei P20 Pro (109) (72)
o 15 Apple iPhone XS Max (106) (82) (74)
o 16 Asus ZenFone 6 (104) (98)
o 17 HTC U12+ (103)
o 18 Samsung Galaxy Note 9 (103) (92)
o 19 Xiaomi Mi MIX 3 (103) (84)
o 20 Google Pixel 3 (102) (92)
o 21 Xiaomi Redmi K20 Pro (102)
o 22 Apple iPhone XR (101*)
o 23 Google Pixel 3a (100*)
o 24 Google Pixel 2 (99) (77)
o 25 LG G8 ThinQ (99)
o 26 Samsung Galaxy S9+ (99*) (81)
o 27 Xiaomi Mi 8 (99*)
o 28 OnePlus 6T (98*)
o 29 Apple iPhone X (97) (71)
o 30 Huawei Mate 10 Pro (97*)
o 31 Lenovo Z6 Pro (97) (75)
o 32 OnePlus 6 (96*)
o 33 Apple iPhone 8 Plus (94)
o 34 LG V40 ThinQ (94*)
o 35 Samsung Galaxy Note 8 (94*)
o 36 Sony Xperia 1 (94) (78) (45)
o 37 Xiaomi Pocophone F1 (91*)
o 38 Asus ZenFone 5 (90*)
o 39 General Mobile GM9 Pro (90)
o 40 Google Pixel (90)
o 41 HTC U11 (90*)
o 42 Vivo X20 Plus (90*)
o 43 Xiaomi Mi Note 3 (90*)
o 44 Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge (89*)
o 45 Apple iPhone 7 Plus (88)
o 46 Samsung Galaxy A9 (86*)
o 47 Crosscall Trekker-X4 (85*)
o 48 Nokia 9 PureView (85)
o 49 Samsung Galaxy A50 (85)
o 50 Black Shark 2 (84)
o 51 LG G7 ThinQ (83*)
o 52 LG V30 (82*)
o 53 Motorola Moto Z2 Force (82*)
o 54 Samsung Galaxy S6 Edge (82*)
o 55 Motorola Moto G7 Plus (80)
o 56 Apple iPhone 6 (73*)
o 57 Google Nexus 6P (73*)
o 58 Meizu Pro 7 Plus (71*)
o 59 Lava Z25 (70*)
o 60 Samsung Galaxy S5 (70*)
o 61 Motorola Moto G5S (69*)
o 62 Apple iPhone 5s (68)
o 63 Nokia 8 (68*)
o 64 Wiko View 3 Pro (67)
o 65 Fairphone 3 (66)
o 66 Samsung Galaxy J2 Pro (2018) (65*)
o 67 Altice S61 (56)

Notice iPhones, historically, barely make it on the top ten list.
o Apple flagships fleetingly occupy the top-ten, but soon fall off.

The iPhone 11 series will likely be no exception to the historical rule.
o Historical mobile phone reviews: Summary of many detailed tests
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/VhGjiYFOBXY/Q1uw67hsAQAJ>

--
The main weakness of the apologits is they have no adult response to fact.

[nospam]

In article <qr0pac$err$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen Holder

<arlen.geo...@is.invalid> wrote:

> > no device does everything.
>
> And yet, while Android does plenty iOS can't hope to do...

the reverse is also true.

> o Nobody here has yet named even a _single_ app functionality iOS can do
> that Android doesn't _already_ do.

oh yes they have, which you and your troll-buddy promptly ignore.

> > two years after apple introduced face id on the iphone x, google
> > released the pixel 4 with face unlock that's almost as good and the
> > closest any android device so far.
>
> Face ID is a brilliantly highly advertise purely marketing gimmick.

it is not a gimmick whatsoever, and is something android phones are
trying to copy.

two years ago, when apple's face id was released, samsung said that it
was 2-3 years ahead of everyone else, and as it turns out, that was a
very good estimate.

the google pixel 4, released about a month ago, is first, however, it's
not quite there yet because it can unlock when eyes are shut. google
said they're going to fix that at some point.

despite that flaw, face unlock on the pixel 4 is much, much better than
what's on samsung and others, which can be spoofed with a *photo*.

unfortunately, the pixel 4 has other problems, notably poor battery
life.

[Arlen Holder]

On Tue, 19 Nov 2019 08:34:35 -0500, nospam wrote:

>> And yet, while Android does plenty iOS can't hope to do...
>
> the reverse is also true.

You have no _adult_ response to facts, nospam.
o You simply _pretend_ to know the answer (like fourth grade children do)

In fact, you have only 7 basic responses to facts you simply hate:
o What are the common well-verified psychological traits of the Apple Apologists on this newsgroup?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/18ARDsEOPzM/veU8FwAjBQAJ>

One of those 7 traits is to fabricate purely imaginary iOS functionality.
o Why do Apple Apologists constantly brazenly fabricate what turns out to be wholly imaginary Apple functionality?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/SZfblCIRc9s/BNYMDpdXEgAJ>

FACT:
*This thread has yet to list even a _single_ iOS functionality you claim.*
o Not even one.

If you feel there is even a _single_ useful iOS app functionality on the
iTunes app store that is not already on Android, that you feel you can
justify as an adult, then here's your chance:
o Name just one

HINT: The fact you incessantly fabricate purely imaginary iOS functionality
like a fourth-grade bully fabricates what happened in the playing field, is
well known to adults on this newsgroup.

o Why do the apologists like nospam turn into instant children in the face of mere facts (e.g., ftfy)?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/TZbkkqS3jv4/3_TTHgRpBwAJ>

Hell, you even incessantly fabricate CONVERSATIONS that never happened
o Just so that you can pretend to have a witty response to facts you hate

o Why do Jolly Roger & nospam always FABRICATE conversations?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/GExRc1qrFGo/JBzdCKSSAwAJ>

>
>> o Nobody here has yet named even a _single_ app functionality iOS can do
>> that Android doesn't _already_ do.
>
> oh yes they have, which you and your troll-buddy promptly ignore.

Name just one.

>> Face ID is a brilliantly highly advertise purely marketing gimmick.
>
> it is not a gimmick whatsoever, and is something android phones are
> trying to copy.

As I said, Apple is one of the finest (if not the finest) marketing
organizations on this planet.

Hence, successfully copying the brilliant gimmicks Apple finds successful
in vastly increasing Apple's astonishingly huge profit margins by selling
imaginary security to fools, is something that EVERY phone manufacturer
would love to be able to mimic.

Face ID is a brilliantly marketed gimmick.
o August, 2019: Researchers Tricked Apple's FaceID with toy glasses
<https://gizmodo.com/researchers-say-they-tricked-apples-faceid-by-putting-t-1837099381>

It's not security by any means; it's for people who want to _feel_ safe.
o It's a brilliantly marketed gimmick for people who want to _feel_ safe.

o Researchers trick Face ID with modified glasses
<https://www.cultofmac.com/644254/face-id-trick-modified-glasses/>

This proof you are immune to has been going on forever, nospam:
o Face ID has been defeated again, and this time it was 'simple'
<https://mashable.com/2017/11/27/apple-face-id-mask-defeated-again/>

> unfortunately, the pixel 4 has other problems, notably poor battery
> life.

What you do, incessantly nospam, is avoid the topic by cherry picking the
worst things you can find in the thousands of Android phones out there,
where the topic at hand is simple, clear, and obvious.

*You've FAILED this simple question EVERY time it has been posed, nospam.*

What functionality you do on iOS you wish you could do on Android?
o Name just one.

*MYTH #1 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/FzxPf1qM/chrome02.jpg>
*MYTH #2 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/HnSRwPHZ/websms03.jpg>
*MYTH #3 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/sDtBKTYn/mute02.jpg>

The question remains:
Q: Is there _any_ app functionality available on the Apple App Store that

performs functionality that you, as an adult, find useful, that is not
already available on the Android repositories.

If so...

[nospam]

In article <qr0vn6$sdq$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen Holder

<arlen.geo...@is.invalid> wrote:

> Face ID is a brilliantly marketed gimmick.

nope.

> o August, 2019: Researchers Tricked Apple's FaceID with toy glasses
> <https://gizmodo.com/researchers-say-they-tricked-apples-faceid-by-putting-t-1
> 837099381>

that's hardly a trick, given that it requires the owner's face.

it's also far more likely to wake the person than touching their finger
to a fingerprint sensor.

[Arlen Holder]

On Tue, 19 Nov 2019 10:06:32 -0500, nospam wrote:

> it's also far more likely to wake the person than touching their finger
> to a fingerprint sensor.

It's a marketing gimmick nospam - marketed to fools who want to _feel_ safe
o To those fools, their "face" is the most personal thing they can think of

Even if they're identical twins or children of parents.

The glasses worked, nospam.
o They even likely work if the person is dead, nospam, or unconscious.

FaceID is a highly marketed gimmick.
o Even so, it's a gimmick on both Android & Apple ecosystems.

So it's not even close to a functionality on one but not the other.
o You keep proving to be completely immune to that fact, nospam.

Why?
o I don't know why.

I think you keep bringing up FaceID because Apple Marketing touts it, where
you know of nothing that Apple marketing hasn't fed you to believe.

Notwithstanding the obvious adult fact that FaceID is a highly marketed
gimmick on both Android & iOS, any adult on this newsgroup will _instantly_
ascertain FaceID _clearly_ doesn't fit the question of this thread.

What's telling is this fact:
o There hasn't been even a _single_ proposed iOS app functionality that
isn't already on Android, based on the input from all the people on this
thread to date.

Yet you, nospam, repeatedly claim such an app functionality exists!
o Name just one

You can't pass even this simplest of basic tests of imaginary belief
systems, nospam.

Nonetheless, I remain hopeful there is at least one iOS app functionality
that is not already on Android ... hence I repeat the very clear question:

Given there is plenty app functionality on Android NOT on iOS...

o Ability to automatically record phone calls
o Ability to change the default application to anything you want
o Ability to load any app launcher you might want
o Ability to record WiFi signal strength for all access points over time

o Ability to organize your home screen any way you feel like doing it
o Ability to easily & completely remove the manufacturer ID & advertiser ID
o Ability to run the bona-fide real Tor Browser (not insecure fakes)

o Ability to instantly turn the device into a read/write USB stick
o Ability to list all apps to the device from the device into any format
o Ability to automatically archive any and all IPAs/APKs to the device
o Ability to backup & restore to/from the device sans using the cloud
o Ability to obtain apps from any reliable repository you might desire

o Ability to re-use archived free IPA/APK files on almost _any_ device

o Ability to change app icon names to anything you want them to be
o Ability to have an "app drawer" feature to make organization easier
etc.

The question remains...particularly given iOS users are apparently almost
completely & wholly ignorant of even the most basic of Android
functionality as shown by these three myths which were easily busted:

*MYTH #1 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/FzxPf1qM/chrome02.jpg>
*MYTH #2 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/HnSRwPHZ/websms03.jpg>
*MYTH #3 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/sDtBKTYn/mute02.jpg>

The question remains...

*What functionality exists on iOS people wish they could do on Android?*
o Name just one.

The question remains:
Q: Is there _any_ app functionality available native or on the Apple App
Store that performs an app functionality that you, as an adult, find

useful, that is not already available on the Android repositories.

The question remains...

If even a _single_ iOS app functionality exists that is not on Android:

o Name just one.

--
Disclaimer: We're not comparing apps against apps since there will _always_

be differences (even on the same platform); and we're not asking about the
artificiality of mere brand names or trademark names or silly games; we are

talking fundamentally useful app functionality (e.g., such as the ability

to autorecord phone calls, or the ability to organize your desktop the way
you want, or the ability to extract IPA/APK files off any device and use it
on another device, etc.).

[nospam]

In article <qr1273$26a$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen Holder

<arlen.geo...@is.invalid> wrote:

> It's a marketing gimmick

no.

apple's face id is much better that face unlock on android, with the
sole exception of the google pixel 4, except for when the person's eyes
are closed.

[Arlen Holder]

On Tue, 19 Nov 2019 13:29:22 -0500, nospam wrote:

> apple's face id is much better that face unlock on android, with the
> sole exception of the google pixel 4, except for when the person's eyes
> are closed.

Grow up nospam.

*MYTH #1 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/FzxPf1qM/chrome02.jpg>
*MYTH #2 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/HnSRwPHZ/websms03.jpg>
*MYTH #3 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/sDtBKTYn/mute02.jpg>

Much as you love to play your silly games to throw a thread you don't like
off-topic, nospam, the topic of this thread is not about whether the faceid
gimmicks on iOS are better or worse than the face id gimmicks on Android.

Both platforms have face-id gimmicks. Period.

If the question were which country makes a "car", then you would waste our
time about why you think the bmw "car" is better or worse than the "toyota"
car, but the fact would remain, both German & Japan make a "car".

The question remains...

Q: Is there _any_ app functionality available native or on the Apple App

Store that performs any app functionality that people, as adults, find
generally useful, that is not already available on the Android devices or
in its repositories.
o Name just one

The question remains...

*If even a _single_ iOS app functionality exists that is not on Android:*
o *Name just one.*

--
Disclaimer: We're not comparing apps against apps since there will _always_
be differences (even on the same platform); and we're not asking about the
artificiality of mere brand names or trademark names or silly games; we are
talking fundamentally useful app functionality (e.g., such as the ability

to autorecord phone calls).

[Arlen Holder]

TENATATIVE CONCLUSION (pending more facts)

The silence is defeating clear that there apparently isn't even a _single_
useful app functionality native on iOS or on the Apple App store that isn't
_already_ on Android that anyone in these combined newsgroups can claim.

The reasons are simple, and most easily stated as...
o Apple severely limits what apps can do
o Android does not

*That alone, is most likely why iOS app functionality is so primitive.*

Moreso...
o Apple has zero technology advantage over Android (& vice versa)
o The competition is fierce (witness historical dismal Apple camera scores)

What Apple has over Android is big - really big - monumentally big:
o Brilliant marketing of purely imaginary functionality is Apple's forte

The other advantage Apple has over Android is the user who selects Apple
products is, IMHO, especially gullible to the well-crafted marketing
messages (e.g., they want to _feel_ safe, without actually being safe).

*Apple marketing messages _resonate_ with these gullible iOS owners.*
o Yet, facts show, iOS is literally primitive compared to modern Android.

I actually knew that, since we Android users apparently know the iOS
ecosystem far better than most iPhone/iPad owners do, who post to this
newsgroup, who don't realize this simplest of the most basic of the most
obvious facts:
o Apple _limits_ what the apps can do.
o Android doesn't.

While I clearly expected apologists would claim imaginary functionality, I
didn't expect them to accept that the iOS ecosystem is primitive compared
to Android, without at more of their always baseless assertions of
imaginary functionality.

It turns out that it was abundantly shown this assessment of the facts:
o iOS users are wholly ignorant of the differences between iOS & Android

Adults do two things that are critical for sensible people to understand:
a. Adults comprehend these facts
b. Adults form logical assessments of these facts

A logical assessment of the facts is that iOS is literally _primitive_ in
functionality, compared to any modern Android smartphone, not because of
the obvious lack of hardware (which is not the topic of this thread), but
simply because Apple limits what functionality iOS owners can enjoy.

If the apologists wish to contest that sensible assessment, then just
o Name just one

Those who own belief systems _based_ on facts are not afraid of facts.

That is, name even a _single_ useful app functionality available native or

on the Apple App Store that performs any app functionality that people, as
adults, find generally useful, that is not already available on the Android
devices or in its repositories.

Name just one.

--
Those who own belief systems _based_ on facts are not afraid of facts.

[Alan Baker]

On 2019-11-20 3:04 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> TENATATIVE CONCLUSION (pending more facts)
>
> The silence is defeating clear that there apparently isn't even a _single_
> useful app functionality native on iOS or on the Apple App store that isn't
> _already_ on Android that anyone in these combined newsgroups can claim.

So if you not receiving answers to your questions means there are no
answers...

...does the same apply to you?

[Arlen Holder]

On Wed, 20 Nov 2019 15:57:31 -0800, Alan Baker wrote:

> So if you not receiving answers to your questions means there are no
> answers...
> ...does the same apply to you?

Alan Baker,

Please control your urges to deflect from basic facts that you don't like
o Please stay on topic to answer the question posed in the subject line.

In this thread, it's clear the apologists have claimed numerous app
functionalities they felt were on iOS that were not on Android, where
_every_ claim turned out to be imaginary (most were due to ignorance).

Yet, apologists such as nospam made numerous sweeping claims (always
unsubstantiated by fact) of (imaginary) iOS functionalities, the apologists
claim are on iOS but not on Android (and yet, not a single fact).

Why can't apologists back up their functionality claims with even a single fact?

I don't know why.

I think it may be apologists are wired to believe in purely marketing messages.
o Sans even a shred of factual evidence backing up those (brilliant) messages.

But then why are the apologists so deathly AFRAID of facts?

I don't know why.

It may simply be the basic logic that facts instantly DESTROY imaginary
belief systems (particularly those carefully crafted by admittedly
brilliant marketing messages, e.g., the imaginary privacy that Apple highly
touts but which has easily been proven to not exist given privacy is a
chain of events, not just the few chains cherry picked by Apple to tout).

Facts, Alan Baker.
o We're adults who care about facts.

We're not here to congratulate Apple's brilliant marketing machinations.
o We're here for cold hard facts.

The fact is...

Many things I do every day on Android - can't be done on iOS, Alan Baker.
o Despite apologist's incessant fabrications of imaginary iOS functionality.

I am not afraid of facts, Alan Baker.

You're welcome to bring an actual on-topic FACT to the table, Alan Baker.
o Name just one

It's your turn, Alan Baker, to find a functionality (anything an adult
would want) that's useful on iOS (either native or in the Apple App Store),
that isn't _already_ native on Android (or on the Android repositories).

Name just one.

Name a new fact, Alan Baker, which has not yet been claimed in this thread.
o Name a _single_ iOS app functionality that you feel is not on Android.

*Name just one.*

I am an adult who forms rational belief systems _based_ on facts.
o I also have own plenty of Android & iOS devices, for many years.

You apparently didn't read the entire thread, since there _were_ attempts:

*MYTH #1 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/FzxPf1qM/chrome02.jpg>
*MYTH #2 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/HnSRwPHZ/websms03.jpg>
*MYTH #3 BUSTED*: <https://i.postimg.cc/sDtBKTYn/mute02.jpg>

etc.

In those attempts it was clear apologists are almost wholly ignorant of
Android functionality, since _everything_ the apologists claimed wasn't on
Android, was on Android.

And yet, there is _plenty_ on Android that is not on iOS, offhand, oh...

o Ability to automatically record phone calls
o Ability to change the default application to anything you want
o Ability to load any app launcher you might want
o Ability to record WiFi signal strength for all access points over time
o Ability to organize your home screen any way you feel like doing it
o Ability to easily & completely remove the manufacturer ID & advertiser ID

o Ability to obtain privacy using the real Tor Browser (not insecure fakes)
o Ability to easily instantly turn the device into a read/write USB stick

o Ability to list all apps to the device from the device into any format
o Ability to automatically archive any and all IPAs/APKs to the device
o Ability to backup & restore to/from the device sans using the cloud
o Ability to obtain apps from any reliable repository you might desire
o Ability to re-use archived free IPA/APK files on almost _any_ device
o Ability to change app icon names to anything you want them to be
o Ability to have an "app drawer" feature to make organization easier
etc.

The logic is clear:
o If there is a consumer need; it's there on Android. Period.

What's clear are these basic facts, which determine the outcome:
o Apple limits what apps can do; Android does not.
o Apple has no technological advantage (and vice versa).
o In fact, the competition is fierce (witness modem technology).

For those reasons alone, Android will _always_ have more modern software
functionality than iOS; but even I assumed _something_ nice (that an adult
could justify) was implemented by Apple in the high-walled garden prison.

That may still be the case, as we're not afraid of FACTS, Alan Baker.
o Even I feel there must be at least 1 useful functionality on iOS not on Android.

Despite apologists sweeping claims that "there are many", the apologists
have yet to name even a _single_ useful app functionality on iOS not
already on Android, Alan Baker.

Not even one.

I am an adult, Alan Baker... I am not afraid of facts.
o I'm allergic to people who spout imaginary belief systems though.

Prove me wrong, Alan Baker, and anyone else reading this who feels iOS is
not primitive compared to Android in terms of useful app functionality.

I'm not afraid of facts.

If you feel there even a _single_ useful app functionality available native

or on the Apple App Store that performs any app functionality that people,
as adults, find generally useful, that is not already available on the
Android devices or in its repositories.

Name just one.

--

The main problem with apologists is they play silly childish games. Why? I
don't know why. I think they are especially susseptible to imaginary beleif
systems rather cleverly manipulated by brilliant Marketing such that facts
instantly DESTROY their carefully built but precarious house of cards.

[Alan Baker]

On 2019-11-21 2:11 a.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Nov 2019 15:57:31 -0800, Alan Baker wrote:
>
>> So if you not receiving answers to your questions means there are no
>> answers...
>> ...does the same apply to you?
>
> Alan Baker,
>
> Please control your urges to deflect from basic facts that you don't like

Says the guy who keeps snipping the context for my replies.

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote :

> There's also no way to have an app that forwards SMS.

Steve,

You may wish to take a look at this SMS forwarding app:
o *SMS Forwarder*, by Ondrej Psencik
<http://www.psencik.cz/sms-forwarder>
<http://www.psencik.cz/file-cabinet/SmsForwarder.apk>

While there are a bunch of apps there:
<http://www.psencik.cz/home>
<http://www.psencik.cz/files>

Here's the blurb for just the SMS Forwarder app:
<http://www.psencik.cz/sms-forwarder>

SMS Forwarder is safe, efficient utility that forwards all incoming SMS
messages, missed calls and low battery notification to email addresses you
configure.

SMS Forwarder supports only SSL encrypted SMTP, choose port 465 (default
value, so can be omitted in configuration) or according to your SMTP
server. If you want to use Gmail SMTP server for sending emails, you must
configure your Gmail account to enable less secure apps (less secure means
authentication via username and password in Google terminology). You can of
course use any SMTP server (over SSL) of your liking.

Example settings for Gmail:
Host: smtp.gmail.com
User name: your Gmail address
From email address: your Gmail address
Password: your Gmail password

Also enable less secure apps = authentication with username and password
(this has been forced by Google, SMS Forwarder was previously "fully"
secure app, but Google policy has changed):
https://myaccount.google.com/lesssecureapps?pli=1
Versions
--
Pretty much anything you've ever wanted to do, is already done on Android.

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 25 May 2020 11:18:15 -0400, nospam wrote:

>> There are some apps which are not available for the iPhone yet are for
>> Android which I have seen and thought would be nice to have.

>
> the reverse is also true.

Hi nospam,

Name just one.

As always, the challenge is to name a "functionality" that you claim is on
iOS that you claim is not on Android.
o Name just one

For example, on Android there's the ability to graphically display WiFi
signal strength for all visible access points over time.
o That functionality doesn't exist in any iOS app on the App Store.

As another example, on Android, there's the ability to automatically record
phone calls simply by loading an app and setting it up once.
o That functionality doesn't exist in any iOS app on the App Store.

As another example, on Android, there's the ability to set the homescreen
grid to any number of rows and column, with or without a dock, which itself
can be set to any number of items, where items can be replicated in
multiple locations and where all app icon names can be what _you_ want them
to be.
o That functionality doesn't exist in any iOS app on the App Store.

HINT: This list of what iOS apps can't do goes on for a very long time...
o *How many functionalities do you perform, every day, on Android,*
*that are impossible on iOS [and vice versa]?*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/qgcY3OFdwto/NTExBPAXBAAJ>

Since you claim the reverse is also true, all you need to do to prove that
your _entire_ belief system isn't completely imaginary, is...
o Name just one.

Given your claim that there is functionality on iOS that isn't on Android,
to prove that your entire belief system isn't based on exactly zero (0)
facts, all you need to do is...
o Name just one.

Don't play silly games around "branding", e.g., by saying "iMessage"...
o Let's talk about actual _functionality_ available now in the app stores

Name one app functionality that you claim is on iOS that isn't on Android.

o Name just one
--

There's a good reason why there's likely no app functionality on iOS that
isn't on Android; but you first have to come to that realization before you
can begin to ponder what that simple reason for that is.

[Arlen Holder]

UPDATE:

A MacWorld writer certain has had Android functionality on his wishlist!

Dateline today... MacWorld... all below is verbatim...
"*Smart Lock has been around since the days of Android Lollipop*"

"Even before I had to wear a mask, Smart Lock was one of Android's best
features, and *it's been on my iOS wishlist for years*."

"*Apple already has a similar system in place on the Mac* called
Auto Unlock."

*Apple can solve our Face ID mask woes by stealing one of Android's best
features*
<https://www.macworld.com/article/3545476/apple-face-id-mask-android-smart-lock-auto-unlock.html>

"If you own an iPhone X or later and have gone out into the world
recently, you probably noticed an unfortunate side effect of the
new mask-wearing culture: *Face ID doesn't work*."

"if Apple's True Depth camera system can't scan your whole face,
it won't unlock your phone. If you're wearing a mask like most stores
and restaurants require, *you're left typing in your passcode* whenever
you want to check your shopping list or pay your bill."

"Apple offered up a workaround with the recent iOS 13.5 update, but
*it's hardly a fix*... That makes things *a little less infuriating*,
but still not ideal."

"Android has a system in place that lets you bypass it while still
respecting your phone's security and privacy. *It's called Smart Lock*,
and it's perfect for these times."

"*Apple already has a similar system in place on the Mac* called
Auto Unlock. If you have a mid-2013 or later Mac running macOS
High Sierra or later"

"Smart Lock (or Auto Unlock as Apple would likely call it) is a
long-overdue feature, but since it's looking like face masks are going
to be the new normal for a while, the timing would be perfect for an
iOS 14 release."
--
Silly marketing gimmicks like Face ID instantly fail in the real world.

[Arlen Holder]

Update today...

Badgolferman opened up what appears to be essentially the same thread:
o iOS exclusive app
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/vTJ6PVrtyS0>

His opening post is provided, verbatim, below...
o (where I'm not sure what's going to be new on iOS since this thread)

From: badgolferman <REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject: iOS exclusive app
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2020 23:31:23 +0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <rpmpgb$9il$1...@gioia.aioe.org>

Over the years I have strongly considered switching to Android devices.
Sometimes out of curiosity, sometimes out of frustration and anger with
the direction Apple has taken with their devices or operating system.

Yet there is at least one app on iOS which keeps me from taking that
plunge - NewsTap. There is no viable Usenet NNTP app on the Google Play
store which is anywhere near NewsTap in functionality and ease of use.

I use an old Samsung Galaxy S3 to test what I can find and my son uses
Android so sometimes I ask him to try one out. But in any case all
research I've done shows there isn't anything decent available for
Android. I've checked with the developer and he says no to Android.

My understanding is the iOS version of Gmail is better and has some
different functionality but I guess I could get used to that.

Is there one app you must have that only is available on iOS?
--
Finally someone bringing necessary truth, via facts, to these newsgroups.

[*Hemidactylus*]

Why are you hijacking badgolferman’s mojo aside from your thing for
masturbating in public? badgolferman created a thread. We don’t need your
sorry sack of shit presence to validate badgolferman. Kindly fuck off you
narcissistic POS.

[Arlen Holder]

On Wed, 25 Nov 2020 22:38:44 -0600, *Hemidactylus* wrote:

> Why are you hijacking badgolfermanĒs mojo aside from your thing for
> masturbating in public? badgolferman created a thread. We donĒt need your

> sorry sack of shit presence to validate badgolferman. Kindly fuck off you
> narcissistic POS.

Regarding this fact-filled thread about iOS vs Android functionality:
o What functionality you do on iOS you wish you could do on Android?
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/Y5Hy7T8cNtw>

In a way, I feel sorry for you Type III apologists, Hemidactylus.
o You _hate_ what Apple is as facts show it's never what MARKETING said

So what you do, Hemidactylus, is attack the mere _messenger_ of those facts
o Like a stunted fifth grader who is told the truth about Santa Claus

You Type III apologists actually _believe_ everything MARKETING feeds you
o So you react with classic hateful vitriol to the mere bearer of facts

You have no actual factual response...
o Because you _know_ the facts are incontrovertible.

That's why I feel sorry, in a way, for you Type III apologists...
o You have absolutely no adult response to facts you _hate_ about Apple
--
The only way Type III apologists react to facts, is with hateful vitriol.

[Arlen Holder]

FACTS:

Assuming badgolferman wanted facts, notice that Apple valiantly 'tried' to
play catchup to five year old Android homescreen functionality with iOS 14.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/y6p53m46/homescreen01.jpg>

For example, in iOS 14, Apple now allows limited "defaults", which is, as
we know, functionality that even a 5 year old Android device has long had,
e.g., I can set the audio defaults to any app I feel like setting them to:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/fRNg5hn0/audio01.jpg>

In iOS 14 Apple added modern "widgets", which, again, any five year old
Android device has long had...
o <https://i.postimg.cc/vTmRGghz/settings01.jpg>

and, get this, in iOS 14 Apple added the modern functionality of something
as simple as an "app drawer app" where you have full control of every app:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/JzrfLbpb/pskill01.jpg>

On any five year old Android, you can set it up without an account and it
works just fine, which, is impossible on an unjailbroken iOS device.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/NjkLvYdy/aurora01.jpg>

Worse, on iOS, you can run the kind of app searches on the default play
store that you can run on Android, e.g., free, ad-free, gsf-free, and even
_google_ free, which I run all the time, as Google is anathema to me:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/W3h4ZZTr/aurora02.jpg>

Any five year old Android device can easily spoof itself, so as to access
apps that are limited to other countries, devices, OS versions, etc.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/ZR25xq5Q/aurora03.jpg>

And don't even get me started on the lack of Wi-Fi functionality on iOS:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/4xgmTTgm/wifi01.jpg>

Almost everything you do daily with Wi-Fi on Android is impossible on iOS:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/3NYSPQSd/network01.jpg>

Hell, even screenshot'ing functionality of iOS is primitive by comparison:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/jq1KVPBk/screenshot01.jpg>

As with all the rest... Apple is finally playing catchup to five year old
Android devices... which is a good thing mind you... but it proves my point
that iOS is mired in the Stone Age of basic rudimentary app functionality.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/cH31wPy2/sdcard03.jpg>

But iPhones have a long way to go to even approach modern functionality.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/j2VCtRPX/sdcard02.jpg>

For example, on Android, I can load any app launcher I want, most (all?) of
which allow me to, for example, completely change the name of _any_ icon
whatsoever (and change the icon too), which you just can't do with iOS.

This is useful for when a lot of apps have the same name (e.g., the task
managers and PDF viewers for example, seem to duplicate the names exactly).

While the iOS homescreen was revolutionary a decade ago, it hasn't
appreciably changed since, so it's stuck in the Stone Age of functionality.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/dt1bVLfr/share05.jpg>

For another example, on any five year old Android device, I can set the
homescreen icon grid to anything I like, i.e., any number of rows and
columns (within reason), which you just can't do on iOS.

I can set to see the dock - or not see the dock - amazingly, yet another
thing you just can't do with iOS (last I tried, even a completely _empty_
dock still shows on the iOS homescreen!).

If there's a setting deep within any particular app, or within the Android
settings, I can easily set a shortcut to that setting, any time I want.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/vTkv7Grh/settings03.jpg>
As far as I can tell, you can't even do something that trivial on iOS.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/FzmF5wYr/printing07.jpg>

As you're well aware, Apple sold out your privacy to Google for money
o Google Pays Apple $8-12 Billion Per Year to be Default iOS Search Engine
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/yU6d7f670Ho>

Yet, on any five year old Android, I can see which programs have trackers,
& better yet, I can turn any of those programs off, at will, at any time.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/9FmRKqnz/stt01.jpg>

I can load apps even Google hates, such as YouTube clones on steroids:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/XYN9Khm3/newpipe04.jpg>
which allow anonymous search, view, play, and even ripping, all without
ever seeing a single advertisement, and always, always, all for free:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/3xLmt1QG/newpipe05.jpg>

The list of what Android does that is impossible on iOS is enormous.
o And yet, I can't find a single functionality on iOS not on Android.

Can you?
--
Note: We're talking "functdionality"; not brand names or trademarks.

[Alan Browne]

On 2020-11-25 23:38, *Hemidactylus* wrote:

> Why are you hijacking badgolferman’s mojo

Ignore it. I would not have seen the above except via your reply.
KF it - for all of us.


--
"...there are many humorous things in this world; among them the white
man's notion that he is less savage than the other savages."
-Samuel Clemens

[Arlen Holder]

On Thu, 26 Nov 2020 08:46:40 -0500, Alan Browne wrote:

> Ignore it. I would not have seen the above except via your reply.
> KF it - for all of us.

*Apologists hate me simply because I bear facts they _hate_ about Apple*

I love you prove not only how childish you are, Alan Browne (e.g., "it");
o But also how _petrified_ you apologists are of mere obvious facts.

My credibility on material facts is 100% whether you like that fact or not.

Never once have the facts I've stated on this newsgroup ever been wrong.
o And you _hate_ that fact (because you _hate_ facts about Apple products)

Not only do you hate that my credibility is stellar on facts...
o You have absolutely no defense to facts - other than to ignore them

Like flat earthers - the only way you can maintain your imaginary beliefs
o Is to ignore any and all facts that don't fit into your belief system
--
Apologists hate me simply because I bear facts they hate about Apple.

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-11-26 11:48 a.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Nov 2020 08:46:40 -0500, Alan Browne wrote:
>
>> Ignore it. I would not have seen the above except via your reply.
>> KF it - for all of us.
>
> *Apologists hate me simply because I bear facts they _hate_ about Apple*
>
> I love you prove not only how childish you are, Alan Browne (e.g., "it");
> o But also how _petrified_ you apologists are of mere obvious facts.
>
> My credibility on material facts is 100% whether you like that fact or not.

Like your "material fact" that a warning about privacy that specifically
directs you to Apple's privacy policy WAS in fact the privacy policy in
the first place?

[Steve]

On Thu, 26 Nov 2020 19:48:38 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder
wrote:
> hate me

I hate you because you are an attention seeking fuckwit.

Your posts are off topic for utm and your anti apple
rants are off topic for cma. If anyone wants to read your
bollocks they can do so in the appropriate group.

Fuck off.
FU set.

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 27 Nov 2020 12:08:50 -0000, Steve wrote:

The adult reader will note this is the prolific highwinds astraweb troll
o The number of confirmed socks is enormous (see sig for just a sample)

o From: Steve <lamma...@gmail.com>
o Message-ID: <p%5wH.141730$xe4....@fx41.iad>
o X-Complaints-To: https://www.astraweb.com/aup
o Please send reports of abuse to ab...@astraweb.com

> Path: doubletreewisp!alphared!news.uzoreto.com!aioe.org!peer03.ams4!peer.am4.highwinds-media.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!fx41.iad.POSTED!not-for-mail
> From: Steve <lamma...@gmail.com>
> Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,uk.telecom.mobile
> Subject: Re: What functionality -
> References: <qqnqat$3ag$1...@news.mixmin.net> <rpmrgh$urr$1...@gioia.aioe.org> <iYmdnZ26r8LJrCLC...@giganews.com> <4lOvH.141414$xe4....@fx41.iad> <rpp0qm$bka$1...@news.mixmin.net>
> Followup-To: misc.phone.mobile.iphone
> Organization: Jelly Spacemen
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> Message-ID: <p%5wH.141730$xe4....@fx41.iad>
> X-Complaints-To: https://www.astraweb.com/aup
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 12:08:53 UTC
> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 12:08:50 -0000
> X-Received-Bytes: 1490
> X-Received-Body-CRC: 1027214806
> Xref: doubletreewisp comp.mobile.android:70241 misc.phone.mobile.iphone:82779 uk.telecom.mobile:14207
--
Just some of the many infantile "highwinds" bot socks trolling this ng.
(NOTE: It's not just the headers, but we start with the headers.)

o From: Arlen Biden <arlen...@mask.off>
o From: Arlen HoldÅr <arlen_...@neumachines.com>
o From: Arlene...@gmail.com
o From: ArleneB...@gmail.com
o From: Alan Barker <noton...@no.no.no.no>
o From: holden...@arlen.net
o From: "angelica...@yahoo.com" <angelica...@yahoo.com>
o From: Andy <an...@roto-reuters.news>
o From: Bill <WhoK...@newsguy.net>
o From: "Colonel Edmund J. Burke" <lbone@go usarmy.com>
o From: "Gimme that ol time ACF." <b7r...@gmail.com>
o From: "STD.COM ish jew kike paedophile BARRY Z. SHEIN 700 Washington St B'righton Mass" <inge23...@aol.c0m>
o From: "Tekkie©" <Tek...@comcast.net>
o From: Anonymous <anon...@anonymo.us>
o From: Bill <WhoK...@newsguy.net>
o From: Bob <b...@bob.cob>
o From: Bob Bott <bob....@smart-matic.post> Message-ID: [<T9OvH.201942$oL7.1...@fx06.iad>]
o From: Bobby Iger <bobby...@mickey-mess.dis> [Message-ID: <9WNvH.19001$dN1....@fx42.iad>]
o From: Bucky Breeder <Breeder_Bucky-Breeder@That's.my.name_Don't.wear.it.out>
o From: Carlos Peraza <carlos...@monterrey.acceso.mx>
o From: Char Jackson <no...@none.invalid>
o From: Charlie+ <cha...@xxx.net>
o From: chrisv <chr...@nospam.invalid>
o From: Cleanup in Isle 3 <cleanup@isle.3>
o From: Dan <notg...@guesswho.com>
o From: Dictator Deblasio <tyr...@totalitarian.nyc>
o From: Duke Nukem <duke....@off.grid>
o From: Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx>
o From: "E. Coast Lib" <e.coa...@naugatuck.guv>
o From: Fact Checker <fact.c...@alt.home.repair> [Message-ID: <vAMvH.4076$ev6....@fx14.iad>]
o From: Flip <flip...@dominion.dnc> [Message-ID: <pHMvH.65379$2j.1...@fx38.iad>]
o From: Gary Dingle <garyd...@adam.com.au>
o From: gray_wolf <g_wolf@howling_mad.com>
o From: Greg Carr <gregca...@gmail.com>
o From: Grumpy Old White Guy <gru...@old-white-guy.network>
o From: Harold <harold....@go.usa>
o From: hub...@ccanoemail.ca
o From: Jeff Hickling <"1st Apostolic"@ats/world.com>
o From: Jenny Telia <jnyt...@gmail.com>
o From: Jim H <inv...@invalid.invalid>
o From: Jim Joyce <no...@none.invalid>
o From: Jim S <j...@jimYscott.co.uk>
o From: Jimmy Kauffenhak <ji...@kauffenhak.llc>
o From: Lenhold Arder <lenhol...@usenet.xyz> [Message-ID: <wfMvH.83413$E_5....@fx10.iad>]
o From: jlov...@gmail.com
o From: Joe Beijing <j...@PresidentEject.dnc>
o From: Joe Bidet <j...@butt-wipe.dnc>
o From: Joey Bidet <joey....@prison.mail>
o From: Joseph Bidett <j...@bidett.flush>
o From: Joel <joel...@gmail.com>
o From: John Karl <john...@fake-news.abc>
o From: Jonesy <Jon...@myspamitmail.org>
o From: Knut Sveinssen <kss@arbitrage.>
o From: Lenhold Arder <lenhol...@usenet.xyz>
o From: Linda <linda....@truth.usa>
o From: Mark <mark.sc...@mgoblow.edu>
o From: Mark Lloyd <n...@mail.invalid>
o From: Michelle <na...@governor.lockdown>
o From: Monty <mo...@home.invalid>
o From: Newsbot <new...@news.bot> [Message-ID: <dqVvH.51689$8v5....@fx33.iad>]
o From: nilsson <nil...@toesnullmail.org>
o From: Olga <ol...@olga-burgers.biz>
o From: Oscar Mayor <oscar...@hot.dog>
o From: Pabst Blue Ribbon <pa...@blue.ribbon>
o From: Pratt <pr...@g.mail>
o From: Ralph Fox <-rf-nz-@-.invalid>
o From: Ralph Mowery <rmower...@earthlink.net>
o From: Raven <ra...@invalid.invalid>
o From: red dawg <red-...@192.168.1.1> [Message-ID: <rfSvH.6055$Zh7....@fx04.iad>]
o From: Robert Marshall <sp...@capuchin.co.uk>
o From: Roger Oveur <roger...@inval.id>
o From: Snit <brock.m...@gmail.com> <Message-ID: <nAFvH.77492$ql4....@fx39.iad>
o From: Scott Lurndal <sc...@slp53.sl.home>
o From: Shadow <S...@dow.br> [Message-ID: <ofc0sflmi0gprpiqd...@4ax.com>]
o From: Steve <lamma...@gmail.com> [Message-ID: <p%5wH.141730$xe4....@fx41.iad>]
o From: Ted <t...@prodigy.aol>
o From: Tekkie© <Tek...@comcast.net>
o From: Tommy <to...@bud.light>
o From: Traitor_Joe <traitor.joe@#2-big-guy.ccp>
o From: The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca>
o From: The Sidhe <Ancient...@Heaven.Net>
o From: ti...@tibia.com
o From: Tyrone <tyr...@none.nul> [Message-ID: <K3VvH.10112$nc....@fx19.iad>]
o From: vallor <val...@cultnix.org>
o From: Voltarin <v-la...@live.com.invalid>

[Steve]

On Fri, 27 Nov 2020 13:48:26 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder
wrote:
>

> On Fri, 27 Nov 2020 12:08:50 -0000, Steve wrote:
>
> The adult reader will note this is the prolific highwinds astraweb troll
> o The number of confirmed socks is enormous (see sig for just a sample)

<snip drivel>

Are you claiming that everyone posting from highwinds is
me? That's a rhetorical question, I don't care for an
answer. You are a loon. You have no reason to crosspost
like you do. Why can't you take a hint and fuck off?

FU set.

[Alan Browne]

On 2020-11-27 07:08, Steve wrote:

>> hate me
>
> I

You should simply ignore it. Even your rant gives it oxygen.

KF's are golden.

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 27 Nov 2020 12:08:50 -0000, Steve wrote:

Adults will notice this is the infamous infantile highwinds astraweb troll.

o From: Steve <lamma...@gmail.com>
o Message-ID: <p%5wH.141730$xe4....@fx41.iad>

o Please send reports of abuse to ab...@astraweb.com

> Path: doubletreewisp!alphared!news.uzoreto.com!aioe.org!peer03.ams4!peer.am4.highwinds-media.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!fx41.iad.POSTED!not-for-mail
> From: Steve <lamma...@gmail.com>
> Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,uk.telecom.mobile
> Subject: Re: What functionality -
> References: <qqnqat$3ag$1...@news.mixmin.net> <rpmrgh$urr$1...@gioia.aioe.org> <iYmdnZ26r8LJrCLC...@giganews.com> <4lOvH.141414$xe4....@fx41.iad> <rpp0qm$bka$1...@news.mixmin.net>
> Followup-To: misc.phone.mobile.iphone
> Organization: Jelly Spacemen
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> User-Agent: MicroPlanet-Gravity/3.0.4
> X-Face: #6d>FwKu^]84}N+lO#1=f=aJj\r5[x7idm(kPe><"&T8VX.dg%1Q/hoY_}g}a>!jiX=I!1*fyt\';{X-uh{rA(2d=pRJ(|V[sBFJsU;u63@MDdck)'_ZfoFcs.h%W3CjIe<D7$fnHJ"+"V45le[s}\YdC[8{#|Ej"hgx"%Ji"$d1@G_&"d3fb#/YEfuG3>'h+&tk-I}0AsosU!C1s93DZPCm{&RN^8q#}97PlZ='YXP+Yn,?p~
> Lines: 12
> Message-ID: <p%5wH.141730$xe4....@fx41.iad>
> X-Complaints-To: https://www.astraweb.com/aup
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 12:08:53 UTC
> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 12:08:50 -0000
> X-Received-Bytes: 1490
> X-Received-Body-CRC: 1027214806
> Xref: doubletreewisp comp.mobile.android:70241 misc.phone.mobile.iphone:82779 uk.telecom.mobile:14207
--

These are all the same highwinds troll bot sock puppet.

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 27 Nov 2020 10:51:28 -0500, Alan Browne wrote:

Why is it not surprising that the Alan Browne troll's headers
and vitriolic always-infantile posts _exactly_ match headers
of the well-known prolific highwinds astraweb sock puppets?

> Path: doubletreewisp!alphared!news.uzoreto.com!aioe.org!peer03.ams4!peer.am4.highwinds-media.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!fx01.iad.POSTED!not-for-mail

> Subject: Re: What functionality -

> Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,uk.telecom.mobile
> References: <qqnqat$3ag$1...@news.mixmin.net> <rpmrgh$urr$1...@gioia.aioe.org> <iYmdnZ26r8LJrCLC...@giganews.com> <4lOvH.141414$xe4....@fx41.iad> <rpp0qm$bka$1...@news.mixmin.net> <p%5wH.141730$xe4....@fx41.iad>
> From: Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com>
> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.5.0
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> In-Reply-To: <p%5wH.141730$xe4....@fx41.iad>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> Content-Language: en-US
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Lines: 9
> Message-ID: <4g9wH.21838$ZbR7....@fx01.iad>
> X-Complaints-To: ab...@usenetserver.com
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 15:51:28 UTC
> Organization: UsenetServer - www.usenetserver.com
> Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2020 10:51:28 -0500
> X-Received-Bytes: 1205
> X-Received-Body-CRC: 4185526269
> Xref: doubletreewisp misc.phone.mobile.iphone:82790 uk.telecom.mobile:14210
--

o X-Complaints-To: https://www.astraweb.com/aup

[Zorro]

Who is this "Arlen Holder". He always has a lot to say.

[Lewis]

A 68 IQ infant troll who is best ignored.

--
Here are people who know that there is no steel, only the idea of
steel. Footnote: But they still use forks, or, at least, the idea
of forks. There may, as the philosopher says, be no spoon,
although this begs the question of why there is the idea of soup.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 12 Dec 2020 12:53:29 -0000 (UTC), Lewis wrote:

> A 68 IQ infant troll who is best ignored.

Hehhehheh... I used to love when Jolly Roger posted proving me right...
o But now I'm loving when Lewis proves me right _every_ time he posts.

*Apologists hate me simply because I bear facts they _hate_ about Apple*

o Apologists have no adult response to something as simple as a fact.

I post scores of times a day for decades to all the OS newsgroups
o And yet, apologists have _never_ found a single fact materially wrong.

It isn't because I went to the finest schools in this country...
o Nor that I worked alongside truly smart people in Silicon Valley startups

It's simply because I speak actual facts about Apple products & decisions
o And the apologists, like Alan Browne or Lewis, have no defense to facts.

Their entire belief systems always turn out to be completely imaginary
o Their beliefs are instantly DESTROYED by something as simple as a mere fact.

Which is why they utterly despise me...
o They have absolutely no adult response... to facts.

HINT: Apologists couldn't last a week in the Silicon Valley being that wrong.
o They're all like kids who still think Santa Claus is real
(simply because they see Santa in all the glossy MARKETING brochures.)
--
FACT: One bug & the entire untested core iOS house of cards fell down.
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/7Mc1sX9XISA>

Google asked "Was it really that easy?", to which the answer was "Yes".
HINT: iOS code dates to 1985 and Google proved it has never been tested.

[Alan Browne]

On 2020-12-12 07:38, Zorro wrote:

> Who is this "Troll".  He always has a lot to say.

It has a lot to write and virtually nothing to say.

[Alan Browne]

On 2020-12-12 07:53, Lewis wrote:

> A 68 IQ infant troll who is best ignored.

That high? Pretty generous.