Why do apologists on this ng consistently hate facts about Apple products

[Arlen Holder]

Why do apologists on this ng consistently hate facts about Apple products?
o I think I finally figured out why apologists hate facts about Apple.

It's clear to any adult the apologists are not only wholly immune to facts
o But the apologists also brazenly deny any facts they simply don't like

Sans presenting a single supporting cite that backs up their brazen claims.
o For example, they always fail the simple test of imaginary belief systems

The simplest of the simple tests of an imaginary belief system, is 3 words:
o Name just one

Which the apologists have been consistently failing for years.
o They can't name a single fact supporting their imaginary belief system.

The question I've been pondering is "why" is this a common apologist trait?
o What are the common well-verified psychological traits of the Apple Apologists on this newsgroup?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/18ARDsEOPzM/veU8FwAjBQAJ>

I think the recent communication with Alan Baker & nospam taught me why.
o It could simply be facts conflict with what Apple Marketing told them

For example, no adult could possibly claim iOS 13 isn't as buggy as hell
o And yet, did Apple tell the apologists NOT to install it
- HINT: The DOD told everyone not to install it.
- EVERYONE but Apple told everyone else to avoid iOS 13 like the plague.

Right?

Did Apple tell apologists they secretly added PD throttling in iOS 13.1?
o I mean, a 70% throttling is pretty damn huge, don't you think

Does Apple tell apologists how utterly insecure iOS has been, for years?
o I mean, Google told everyone the iOS code was essentially untested.
- HINT: Apple didn't dispute facts - they hated "how" Google said them.

And yet, in so many cases that we've lost count long ago...
o The apologists brazenly deny all facts - even those Apple admitted.

o What is wrong with the Apple Apologists that they deny even what Apple admitted?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/fyL1cQUVCp0/e5J-nW0hBAAJ>

There are incessant examples of these two characteristics of the apologists
a. They brazenly deny all facts about Apple products that they don't like
b. They provide zero supporting factual evidence of the reason for denial

Why are apologists on this ng wholly immune to facts about Apple product?
o I don't know why.

I think it's because facts conflict with what Apple marketing told them.

--
Who are the score of Apple apologists on this ng?
o Alan Baker <nu...@ness.biz>
o Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com>
o Andreas Rutishauser <and...@macandreas.ch>
o Beedle <Bee...@dont-email.me>
o B...@Onramp.net
o Chris <ithi...@gmail.com>
o Davoud <st...@sky.net>
o Elden <use...@moondog.org>
o Elfin <elfi...@gmail.com> (aka Lloyd, aka Lloyd Parsons)
o Hemidactylus <ecph...@allspamis.invalid>
o joe <no...@domain.invalid>
o Joerg Lorenz <hugy...@gmx.ch>
o Johan <JH...@nospam.invalid>
o Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com>
o Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
o Lloyd <elfi...@gmail.com> (aka "Elfin")
o Lloyd Parsons <lloy...@gmail.com> (aka "Elfin")
o Meanie <M...@gmail.com>
o nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> (bullshitter par excellence)
o Sandman <m...@sandman.net> (hates any and all facts about Apple)
o Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>
o Snit <use...@gallopinginsanity.com> (aka Michael Glasser)
o Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net>
o Wade Garrett <wa...@cooler.net>
o Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com>
o et al.

[badgolferman]

So why does it matter if there are Apple apologists in an Apple newsgroup?
Has your attempts to educate them been successful or has it raised higher
walls? What do you personally gain by consistently failing to change their
minds?

My personal thoughts are you provide lots of great information but are too
persistent in trying to hammer it home. This has the effect of raising
people’s hackles and steeling them against your message. It also has the
effect of forcing them to grasp even tighter to their beliefs so they can
justify their biases.

Information is very powerful, but only when the audience is receptive. No
one likes a megaphone blasting in their face no matter what the message is.

[. Arlen Holder]

On Sun, 29 Sep 2019 15:31:38 +0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote:

> So why does it matter if there are Apple apologists in an Apple newsgroup?

Hi badgolferman,

You bring up a point - which is that repeatedly screaming the truth ...
o Is still screaming (which is annoying, as in using a megaphone would be).

You've proven to own an adult mind, where your question is apropos.
o It matters when posters are purposefully unhelpful, duplicitous, & sadistic.

When posters send innocent people on wild goose chases...
o They're sadistic (furtive, tricky, shifty, fraudulent, unethical)
When posters brazenly lie as the answer to an innocent question...
o They're duplicitous (unconscionable, deceptive, dishonest, etc.)
When posters claim imaginary functionality when you ask for help...
o They're purposefully unhelpful (unprincipled, perfidious)

The list goes on WHY it matters to present facts on this ng, badgolgerman.
o The Apple apologists are sadistic, purposefully unhelpful, & duplicitous.

Where it matters most is when someone new, like I was to iOS years ago,
comes in here to ask an innocent technical question of the newsgroup.

As you're well aware, there are a score of posters, who are consistently
o Sadistic ... duplicitous ... and purposefully unhelpful.

Worse adjectives would also consistently apply to these sadistic posters
o They're unprincipled, delusory, false, artful, devious, & deceitful.

I've seen time and again, these sadistic posters have their cunning fun
playing with innocent users, such as Ant, Wade Garrett, and a host of
others, including me when I was new to Apple products.

Those sadistic posters post purely for their own amusement, badgolferman.

I deplore these sadistic people, badgolferman.
o I deplore their underhanded manners when innocent people ask questions.

But what I deplore most, are their insidious brazen lies.

> Has your attempts to educate them been successful or has it raised higher
> walls? What do you personally gain by consistently failing to change their
> minds?

What does anyone "personally gain" from truth, badgolferman?
o I simply seek the truth about Apple products.

And you know that, badgolferman - if you are an adult - you do.

As you're well aware, I'm the _opposite_ of these sadistic posters:
o I'm purposefully helpful (always providing links & tutorials for example)
o And I'm always correct on my facts (striving for 100% factual credibility).

You know that to be a fact, badgolferman - where I'm the antithesis of
those unscrupulous sadistic score of posters, badgolferman.

Being the antithesis of these score of unprincipled sadistic posters,
badgolferman, I feel a responsibility to add truth and helpful intent to
this newsgroup.

If someone, such as Ant (whom I like), asks an innocent question, and the
sadistic posters send him on their classic imaginary functionality wild
goose chases, I'm not going to sit still for that, badgolferman. I'm just
not.

When those sadistic posters send Wade Garrett on their sadistic wild goose
chases, even though Wade Garrett is no friend of mine, I'm going to tell
the truth in that thread, badgolferman.

> My personal thoughts are you provide lots of great information but are too
> persistent in trying to hammer it home.

Thank you for being one of the rare posters on this newsgroup who realize I
bring TRUTH to this newsgroup - truth that would otherwise not exist.

Without my posts, most of the people here, I posit, would remain ignorant
of the simplest of facts about Apple products, such as, oh, for example,
the fact that iOS 13 is so buggy that even the Department of Defense warned
everyone to say away from it.

I'm not afraid of facts, badgolferman.
o In fact, facts _bolster_ my belief system.

What you're perhaps intimating is that I should stop posting facts?

> This has the effect of raising
> people's hackles and steeling them against your message.

Here is where I fully agree with your adult assessment, badgolferman.
o The more I post in response to the sadistic posters...
o The more posts that others have to deal with...
o Where, those others, who are adults, may be annoyed by the quantity
o And content

Since most of that content is to shoot down the sadistic lies woven by the
smarter posters (e.g., nospam) and the dumbest ones alike (e.g., JR).

I do agree with you that adults, (e.g., SMS for example), might get
frustrated by my incessantly proving that the score of listed sadistic
apologists are weaving underhanded lies about Apple products to innocent
people.

I presume your point is that most of the adults here, e.g., you, David
Empson, Steve, etc., know that almost everything these sadistic posters
post, is deceiving the innocent posters.

So really, if that's the case that the adults all already know that nothing
nospam ever says can ever be trusted to be even close to the truth... then
we only really need to worry about those sadistic posters perversely
misleading only the innocents, like I was.

Is that what you are implying, badgolferman?

> It also has the
> effect of forcing them to grasp even tighter to their beliefs so they can
> justify their biases.

If the truth forces these sadistic posters to "grasp even tighter" to their
beliefs of imaginary functionality - then we're all doomed no matter what.

Personally, I don't think the sadistic posters like nospam are as
"innocent" as you seem to make them out to be.

He knows full well that everything he says is a furtive play on the truth.
o I can tell this by the cagey way nospam words his brazen denials.

> Information is very powerful, but only when the audience is receptive.

I appreciate that you provide this advice to me, badgolferman.
o Because if good people (e.g., David Empson) are force to plonk

Then even they who are actually very intelligent adults
o Will miss out on the truth (e.g., secret throttling I reported recently).

I'll try to reduce my responses to the sadistic score of posters listed in
the OP, but I must warn you that when they post their artful lies, I must
let the innocent and adult posters here know of their delusory claims.

> one likes a megaphone blasting in their face no matter what the message is.

I appreciate the analogy, badgolferman, where your characterization is
apropos that I lose my message of "truth", by responding to the sadistic
and ignorant posters too often.

Bear in mind though, that I try to UNDERSTAND why these sadistic & ignorant
posters do what they consistently do - and I try to PROTECT those who are
hurt by their perverse claims of imaginary functionality - which I was -
quite a few times in fact - long ago - when I first owned Apple equipment.

Why do these sadistic & ignorant posters do what they consistently do?

o I don't know why.

But I do try to reason with them, with facts.
o Where, as you've noted, it never works.

The fact it doesn't work with them would make lesser men give up trying.
o But, remember, Usenet is a stored medium - edifying people for decades.

Hence, my responses containing TRUTH will be in the public record
o For decades.

And that ... is my strategic plan.

In summary,
o I appreciate your purposefully helpful advice to lay off on the truth
o In fact, I will "try" to take your advice to lay off on the truth
o By minimizing my responses to those sadistic & ignorant posters named

Since my tactical approach always fits my strategic approach
o I can't promise to you yet - HOW - I will lay off the truth

But I do AGREE with you - easily in fact - on the annoying megaphone analogy.
o Screaming truth - is still screaming (which is your point, is it not?)

[. Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 30 Sep 2019 05:27:58 -0000 (UTC), . Arlen Holder wrote:

> You bring up a point - which is that repeatedly screaming the truth ...
> o Is still screaming (which is annoying, as in using a megaphone would be).

Hi badgolferman,

As I said, I'm going to try, tactically, to comply with your request
o All the while maintaining my strategic goal of bringing truth to this ng.

I'm not sure exactly how yet - as I strive to bring "truth" to this ng.
o But my last few posts are a first attempt at backing off on truth.

Notice, for example, both Jolly Roger & Lloyd Parsons (aka Elfin)
o Assessed the facts in this recent thread COMPLETELY WRONG (IMHO)

They assessed the facts EXACTLY like Apple would apologize for them.
o And yet, in doing so, they missed the entire truth of the matter!

Example where Apologists lack of comprehension of facts
o Causes those apologists to assess facts completely wrong

Jolly Roger/Lloyd Parsons:
o The 'Checkm8' exploit isn't a big deal to iPhone or iPad users, and here's why
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/cwlXKVyQfT4>

As I promised, badgolferman, I'll implement improvements
o Where you'll note the succinctness of my responses bringing truth to this ng.

The problem, as I see it, badgolferman, is that if someone does not bring
truth to this ng, people will actually ONLY believe what Apple wants them
to believe.
o Which is EXACTLY what Lloyd Parsons & Jolly Roger proved they believe.

They "think" it's about security but they forget it's about jailbreaking.
o Sure, Apple fucked up (again) and for years (again) by not testing things
o But the main takeaway is that this is a boon for jailbreakers.

That's the kind of honest, adult, factual, truthful assessment this ng needs.
o Otherwise, everyone is thinking only exactly how Apple wants them to think.

Someone needs to bring truth to this ng.

The adult question is how best to bring truth to this newsgroup
o Sans shouting ... or dropping to their level.

That's not easy with many apologists posting exactly what Apple feeds them.

[B...@onramp.net]

On Mon, 30 Sep 2019 05:27:58 -0000 (UTC), " . Arlen Holder"

<.arlen...@arling.hlder.edu> wrote:

sigh...another nym change. There are so few here that read your shit
that I guess you just have to do this. Why not just stick with one?
Then you will have done something good here....for once.

Plonk again.

[Arlen _G_ Holder]

On Sun, 29 Sep 2019 03:19:31 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> the apologists also brazenly deny any facts they simply don't like

Just as Joerg Lorenz brazenly denied facts that he couldn't find in the
German media, Alan Baker just brazenly denied facts, simply because he
didn't like them. <http://tinyurl.com/comp-sys-mac-advocacy>

As is typical with Apple apologists, sans a single shred of evidence...
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/2udyVtuawIc/JqrxD3IvCAAJ>

o Netflix confirms it won┤ port its iPad app to macOS
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/2udyVtuawIc/IF3grMBXCAAJ>

--
Bringing adult thought processes to Apple newsgroups - one fact at a time.