Apple App Store Security Bypassed By Government iOS Surveillance Malware

[Arlen G. Holder]

Direct Quote: "It's a myth that Apple devices are impenetrable"
o Dated April 09, 2019

o *Apple App Store Security Bypassed By Government iOS Surveillance Malware*
<https://www.forbes.com/sites/daveywinder/2019/04/09/apple-app-store-security-bypassed-by-government-ios-surveillance-malware-what-you-need-to-know/>

"An apparently well-funded surveillance malware operation, thought
to be aimed at the 'lawful-intercept' market, has succeeded in
circumventing Apple security measures in order to infect iPhones
according to researchers."

The attack is similar, but less sophisticated than the 2018 Google attack:
"Now, it appears that a slightly less sophisticated version of
the surveillance malware has managed to infect iPhone users courtesy
of iOS apps *that have been distributed _outside_ of the official*
Apple App Store*."

"Jake Moore... advises that while it is "rare for hackers to break
into Apple's locked down ecosystem" it's a myth that Apple devices
are impenetrable"

Apparently the mechanism reported is as follows:
"By abusing the Apple Developer Enterprise program the App Store
can be circumvented and users conned into installing the malware."

It's a special mechanism though, which uses social engineering tactics:
"While not as sophisticated as the Android version, Bauer confirms
that audio recordings, photos, videos, GPS location and contacts
could be exfiltrated from iOS devices and remote audio recording
activated as well."

Further factual details on privacy among the platforms is here:
o What is the factual truth about PRIVACY differences or similarities between the Android & iOS mobile phone ecosystems?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/FCKRA_3i9CY>

[Alan Baker]

Are you suggesting that Android cannot be similarly penetrated?

Oh, wait! Your cite specifically notes that the Android version is even
worse!

:-)

[nospam]

In article <qb5fcg$1f36$2...@gioia.aioe.org>, Alan Baker <nu...@ness.biz>
wrote:

and it's done by tricking the user:

> > and users conned into installing the malware."

nothing is immune from that.

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Fri, 10 May 2019 23:30:48 -0400, nospam wrote:

> and it's done by tricking the user:

Hi nospam,

I agree with you since I don't disagree with obvious facts
o Adults are funny that way

What's interesting is that you, of all the apologists, just proved that you
actually do have the capability of picking out the nuance in facts.

Of course, it helps that I bolded' the relevant facts, and I additionally
underscored what you also realized, but still, even after doing that, most
apologists generally _still_ prove to be immune to the nuance of facts.

Hence, kudos to you, of all apologists, for exhibiting the capability to
actually read & comprehend, at times, the nuances inherent in basic facts.

I'm very pleasantly surprised at your acumen this time.

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Fri, 10 May 2019 20:26:08 -0700, Alan Baker wrote:

> Oh, wait! Your cite specifically notes that the Android version is even
> worse!

... was ...

[Alan Baker]

And how is that different?

Do you think the apps on the Apple store will remain once they are known?

[Andreas Rutishauser]

In article <qb5e5m$b9j$1...@news.mixmin.net>,
"Arlen G. Holder" <arling...@nospam.net> wrote:

and why is this drivel on topic in csms?

--
MacAndreas Rutishauser, <http://www.MacAndreas.ch>
EDV-Dienstleistungen, Hard- und Software, Internet und Netzwerk
Beratung, Unterstuetzung und Schulung
<mailto:and...@MacAndreas.ch>, Fon: 044 / 721 36 47

[Davoud]

Arlen G. Holder wrote:
> > o *Apple App Store Security Bypassed By Government iOS Surveillance Malware

That from Kaspersky, the Soviet front that is itself a threat to our
security.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Fri, 10 May 2019 21:40:08 -0700, Alan Baker wrote:

> Do you think the apps on the Apple store will remain once they are known?

Hi Alan Baker,

Facts first; then reasonable rational logic based on those facts please.

While I comprehend that you _think_ the threat is gone once Apple was told
about malware, the real problem, IMHO, is that Apple had to be _told_ about
it.

This is just another of very many proofs that Apple (for both iOS and Mac)
does not test their software and processes sufficiently.

Apple is a very successful company - with huge profits - so if Apple
_wanted_ to sufficiently test software, they certainly could.

But they don't.
o And that's a fact.

The reason, I posit, that fact is not material to Apple, is that Apple
MARKETING knows what I conjecture below:
o The Apple consumer desperately wants to _feel_ safe
o Without actually _being_ safe.

IMHO, that Apple customer is made to feel safe with mere marketing
messages, which, I posit, Apple _knows_ to be more effective than testing
of the software would be.

Witness the brilliance of turning a fried Asian lady into a marketing coup!
o What is the most brilliant marketing move Apple ever made?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/wW-fu0jsvAU/s6gu-hj2BwAJ>

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Sat, 11 May 2019 08:24:05 -0400, Davoud wrote:

> That from Kaspersky, the Soviet front that is itself a threat to our
> security.

Hi Davoud,

Facts first; then rational adult logic based on those facts.

I agree it's prudent to know from whence a report came.
o However, if the report is true, does the source negate the facts inherent in the report?

IMHO, the _real_ import is that, yet again, for the umpteenth time,
Apple had to be _told_ about an existing threat which Apple,
clearly, had ample opportunity to be aware of (given it happened,
essentially, to Google in 2018).

What's troubling to adults is the fact that Apple apparently was
unaware of the threat even after knowing about it in others,
which indicates, yet again, for the umpteenth time,
that Apple spends their immense resources less on actual safety,
and more, it seems, on simply marketing the ILLUSION of safety.

That is, Apple Marketing is well aware of what I posit below:
o The Apple consumer desperately wants to be told that they're safe.
Without actually being safe.

It's sort of like how a child wants mommy to close the closet door
& whisper in his ear that the monsters can't get out at night
when she does that.

While that's simply an analogy of the Apple customer and his
Apple marke4tnig mommy, my beliefs are based on actual facts...

o Apple iOS 12.1.4 has a nasty surprise - installing iOS 12.1.4 is like playing Russian roulette
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/9LUmdes363g>

o Anyone can hack into MacOS High Sierra simply by typing "root"!
<https://www.wired.com/story/macos-high-sierra-hack-root/>

o Yet another non-root password-stealing bug on Apple (Apple _never_ tests sufficiently - and doesn't even KNOW what this bug is yet!)
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/ocCnzVh3BxQ>

o Making sense of the many Apple security flaws
<https://www.wired.com/story/apples-security-macos-high-sierra-ios-11/>

o Apple just now BLOCKED Live Photos in FaceTime for all _current_ iOS & macOS users!
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/fQ3Kb96gedA>

o An astounding list of security vulnerabilities found in Apple software
<https://www.zerodayinitiative.com/blog/2017/5/15/the-may-2017-apple-security-update-review>

o Lockscreen exploit easily found only hours after iOS 12.1 released
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/N-hQKPDI4a0/4tfgLojLAAAJ>

o Apple Macs Have Yet Another Password-Bypassing Bug
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.sys.mac.system/4rM5ZPCgThI/X8HEf0BvCAAJ>

o A massive security hole has been found in iOS 11
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/xGV0X_Qfqc4/VqqWWwMXBAAJ>

o icloud privacy breach
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/eZjiSd1HneE>

o MacWorld: Apple needs to stop promising new products and start delivering them
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/WYjTtnTs-XQ/YyhGkrNXAAAJ>

o Yet again, Apple forgot to test iOS 11.2.6 in the real world
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/AlkmHCTSUXg/K5GdwrzdCQAJ>

o Yet more proof Apple doesn't test software sufficiently (this time not only from Facebook but also from Expedia, Hollister and Hotels.com)
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/8HfdPOQVNVk>

o Yet another shoddy example of Apple rushing to fix a critical issue
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.sys.mac.system/mqTrBBlvGCU/jrJWtF8DBAAJ>

o Apple openly admits they didn't test iOS in the real world!
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/K8uOvBjJ2rY/2htXivAfAwAJ>

o Apple Was Slow to Act on FaceTime Bug That Allows Spying on iPhones
<https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/29/technology/facetime-glitch-apple.html>

o iOS 12.1 Beta Includes Fix for iOS 12 iPhone and iPad Charging Issue
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/pdlKvBUmrj0/8jnSieURAwAJ>

o Is Apple seriously suggesting that millions of unsuspecting customers - now become - beta testers - just so that their phones will work!
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/xrovVjnWUo4/mWmtp7EYAwAJ>

o How to work around the new Apple iOS7 infinite loop of mistrust bug on Linux?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/_e0czhOYSHo/WuyowzN73IsJ>

o Every time iOS updates, Apple causes new problems in the REAL world...
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/Z6xD4HaiyjE/Jr5yYrBUCAAJ>
etc.

The fact is we can now add this never-ending addition, to that list:
o *Apple App Store Security Bypassed By Government iOS Surveillance Malware*
<https://www.forbes.com/sites/daveywinder/2019/04/09/apple-app-store-security-bypassed-by-government-ios-surveillance-malware-what-you-need-to-know/>

[Alan Baker]

On 2019-05-11 8:23 a.m., Arlen G. Holder wrote:
> On Fri, 10 May 2019 21:40:08 -0700, Alan Baker wrote:
>
>> Do you think the apps on the Apple store will remain once they are known?
>
> Hi Alan Baker,
>
> Facts first; then reasonable rational logic based on those facts please.
>
> While I comprehend that you _think_ the threat is gone once Apple was told
> about malware, the real problem, IMHO, is that Apple had to be _told_ about
> it.

That's not a fact. That's an assertion.

>
> This is just another of very many proofs that Apple (for both iOS and Mac)
> does not test their software and processes sufficiently.

Assertion, not fact.

>
> Apple is a very successful company - with huge profits - so if Apple
> _wanted_ to sufficiently test software, they certainly could.
>
> But they don't.
> o And that's a fact.

Nope.

>
> The reason, I posit, that fact is not material to Apple, is that Apple
> MARKETING knows what I conjecture below:
> o The Apple consumer desperately wants to _feel_ safe
> o Without actually _being_ safe.

Why?

>
> IMHO, that Apple customer is made to feel safe with mere marketing
> messages, which, I posit, Apple _knows_ to be more effective than testing
> of the software would be.
>
> Witness the brilliance of turning a fried Asian lady into a marketing coup!
> o What is the most brilliant marketing move Apple ever made?
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/wW-fu0jsvAU/s6gu-hj2BwAJ>

You mean the one who wasn't injured by an Apple product at all?

Sure, it's a clever move to take back third-party chargers...

...but doesn't doing so actually make their customers safer?

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Sat, 11 May 2019 06:44:17 +0100, Andreas Rutishauser wrote:

> and why is this drivel on topic in csms?

Is this more to your liking, Andreas?
o New Mac Malware steals iPhone text messages from iTunes backups
<https://www.hackread.com/mac-malware-steals-iphone-text-messages-from-itunes-backups/>

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Sat, 11 May 2019 09:25:31 -0700, Alan Baker wrote:

> That's not a fact. That's an assertion.

Hi Alan Baker,

You're interesting, in that you think like the average iOS user.
o Hence, how you think is important for me to understand.

If you don't think like I do (i.e., comprehension of the facts first, and
only then,rational reasonable logical deductions from those facts), then
it's going to be interesting to figure out how you actually think.

Do you think Apple finds the bugs that are in apps that Apple doesn't write
but which are in the app store?

Let's take this recent example from last month, to see how you think, where
a common app on the app store was allowing a massive malware attack on iOS:

o Easter Attack Affects Half a Billion Apple iOS Users via Chrome Bug
<https://threatpost.com/easter-attack-apple-ios/143901/>
"The U.S-focused eGobbler malvertising attacks are exploiting
an unpatched Google Chrome bug."

Was that recent bug in an app found on the iOS app store, caught by Apple?
"They're exploiting an unpatched flaw in the Chrome for iOS browser,
to bypass sandboxing and hijack user sessions, targeting iPhone
and iPad users."

Apparently, the "built-in pop-up blocker apparently failed:
"Chrome on iOS was an outlier in that the built-in pop-up blocker
failed consistently."

The reasons were stated as:
"In looking at why the blocker was failing, they discovered that in
Chrome for iOS, the pop-ups are not preventable by standard
ad sandboxing attributes."

The summary was, apparently:
'Where standard sandboxing rules would ultimately succeed in
blocking certain redirections, they consistently failed to protect
users from this campaign on iOS Chrome,' Stein noted."

Further references are here:
o Malvertising campaign abuses Chrome for iOS bug to target iPhone users
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/malvertising-campaign-abuses-chrome-for-ios-bug-to-target-iphone-users/>
"A massive malvertising campaign is exploiting a vulnerability in
the Chrome for iOS mobile browser to redirect iPhone and iPad users
to adware, scams, and other malicious sites, ZDNet has learned today
from Confiant, a cyber-security firm specialized in tracking
malvertising campaigns. The company said it had reported the bug
to Google, whose engineers are now investigating the issue."

"The bug only impacts Chrome for iOS, and no other Chrome version,
Eliya Stein, Confiant Senior Security Engineer, told ZDNet today
in an email."

These attacks aim directly at iOS users through apps on the app store:
"Stein also described eGobbler as one of today's top three operators
of malvertising campaigns, with the other two being VeryMal and '
ScamClub - both of which had similarly and historically targeted
US-based iOS users."

Having shown you these facts from just last month, the two questions to ask
you, Alan Baker, are related to whether your brain perceives those bugs as
having been found by either Apple or Google.

*Who do think found those malware threats in apps on the iOS app store?*
o Did either Apple or Google find them, for example?

Why or why not?

HINT: It turns out that this malware threat from Easter on iOS was
apparently _related_ to the malware threat reported in this thread, which
is why I bring it up to ask you who you think found the threats in iOS
apps.
<https://www.hackread.com/hackers-exploite-unpatched-chrome-bug-iphone-users/>
<https://www.hackread.com/nasty-android-ios-malware-found-using-govt-surveillance-tech/>

[nospam]

In article <qb751q$m2a$2...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen G. Holder

<arling...@nospam.net> wrote:

>
> o Easter Attack Affects Half a Billion Apple iOS Users via Chrome Bug

so not anything apple did, but rather a problem with software *google*
wrote.

if only google tested their software before releasing it...

[Lewis]

In message <110520191519213977%nos...@nospam.invalid> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <qb751q$m2a$2...@news.mixmin.net>, Shit Lying Asshcunt wrote:

>>
>> o Easter Attack Affects Half a Billion Apple iOS Users via Chrome Bug

> so not anything apple did, but rather a problem with software *google*
> wrote.

There is no fucking way half a billion iOS users are using Chrome.
That's ridiculous.

> if only google tested their software before releasing it...

If only.


--
May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house.

[Alan Baker]

On 2019-05-11 11:42 a.m., Arlen G. Holder wrote:
> On Sat, 11 May 2019 09:25:31 -0700, Alan Baker wrote:
>
>> That's not a fact. That's an assertion.
>
> Hi Alan Baker,
>
> You're interesting, in that you think like the average iOS user.
> o Hence, how you think is important for me to understand.

You are tedious, in that you continue to insist that because you say
something, that makes it a fact.

>
> If you don't think like I do (i.e., comprehension of the facts first, and
> only then,rational reasonable logical deductions from those facts), then
> it's going to be interesting to figure out how you actually think.

Whereas, I've already figured out how you think...

...if you can call what you do "thinking".

>
> Do you think Apple finds the bugs that are in apps that Apple doesn't write
> but which are in the app store?

Do you think Google finds such bugs?

There are people who will try to find ways to be malicious.

This is not news.

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Sat, 11 May 2019 15:19:21 -0400, nospam wrote:

> so not anything apple did, but rather a problem with software *google*
> wrote.
>
> if only google tested their software before releasing it...

Hi nospam,

FACT:
o The facts clearly show Apple does not test software sufficiently.
LOGIC:
o You derive your own rational logical conclusion based on that fact.

That was an example chosen for two reasons:
1. It was just last month, and,
2. It was an app in the iOS app store.

Now, let's look at something that was _written_ by Apple, shall we?
o Remember the horrific FaceTime bugs of just a few months ago?

No?
Really?
You forgot already?

Need I remind you that Apple clearly never sufficiently tested FaceTime?
o Until, & get this, the heat was so hot, that they _had_ to test it.

The facts showed Apple had no intention of _ever_ sufficiently testing it.
o Until they were literally _forced_ to test it - under extreme pressure.

And, worse, when Apple did sufficiently test it (under extreme pressure),
o They hey found so many _original_ holes that _multiple_ patches ensued.

Since you'll claim that fact is made up, I point you to the threads:
o Apple, when testing FaceTime for FacePalm, found even MORE security bugs (which were never found in original insufficient testing)
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/BHPp-e77nSM/jEDzQfyOAAAJ>
o Apple's delay may indicate QA found long-standing super-serious facetime flaws
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/1V5tFA1OQ0w/qmc4iiUWCQAJ>

o Apple just now BLOCKED Live Photos in FaceTime for all _current_ iOS & macOS users!

<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/fQ3Kb96gedA/cjXFHqCVAAAJ>
o facetime privacy bug
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/NFW7nz6FELw/HSk3EatuDgAJ>
o iOS 12.1.4 Now Available With Group FaceTime Bug Fix
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/qQWzzXfb9OM/7frnsz5sCgAJ>

And what about the incessant never-ending series of MASSIVE security holes!

o A massive security hole has been found in iOS 11
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/xGV0X_Qfqc4/VqqWWwMXBAAJ>

o Yet again, Apple forgot to test iOS 11.2.6

<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/AlkmHCTSUXg/K5GdwrzdCQAJ>

o Yet another non-root password-stealing bug on Apple

<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/ocCnzVh3BxQ>
etc. (there are so many of these as proof, we'll simply accept it as fact)

Remember, adults agree on facts first, and then they process those facts
after they comprehend them, into logically reasonable conclusions.

FACT:
o The facts clearly show Apple does not test their software sufficiently.
LOGIC:
o You derive your own rational logical conclusion based on that fact.

[Alan Baker]

On 2019-05-11 5:35 p.m., Arlen G. Holder wrote:
> On Sat, 11 May 2019 15:19:21 -0400, nospam wrote:
>
>> so not anything apple did, but rather a problem with software *google*
>> wrote.
>>
>> if only google tested their software before releasing it...
>
> Hi nospam,
>
> FACT:
> o The facts clearly show Apple does not test software sufficiently.

No. That is a CONCLUSION.

> LOGIC:
> o You derive your own rational logical conclusion based on that fact.

That wasn't a fact.

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Sat, 11 May 2019 20:17:30 -0000 (UTC), Lewis wrote:

> There is no fucking way half a billion iOS users are using Chrome.

Hi Lewis,

Do you apologists even _read_ the articles before you spout bullshit?
o Quote: "this exploit is able to bypass that need for user interaction"

While they didn't publish the exact details of the exploit, they did say
o QUOTE: "the eGobbler exploit successfully circumvents many of them,
including the rule for allowing pop-ups only as a result of direct user
interaction. That means that a pop-up can appear randomly, on a drive-by
basis"

Specifically, that's why they said it had such a huge impact:
o Quote: "This bug is therefore at the root of why the attack has managed
to be so virulent in such a short amount of time"

Besides, the people writing these sophisticated iOS-targeted attacks
o Certainly felt there were enough of a user base to make it worthwhile

I never expect you apologists to comprehend facts before you brazenly deny
them though, so I'm quite sure that _anything_ factual or logical ...
o Is completely foreign to you well-known Apple Apologists

FACT:
o The facts are clear to adults Apple does not sufficiently test software.
LOGIC:
o You form your own rational reasonable supportable logic based on that fact.

There are so many examples of the fact that Apple doesn't test software
that the Chrome example was chosen simply because it fit nospam's criteria
of "being in the app store", and it was just last month.

Remember, nospam complained that the recent Apple-untested surveillance
malware was propagated _outside_ the app store (via social engineering); so
I simply provided a recent example where the Apple-untested malware was
propagated (multiple times mind you) from _inside_ the iOS app store.

Then, predictably, nospam complained that the Apple-untested code wasn't
written _by_ Apple, where I simply provided a recent example (one of very
many) where Apple _wrote_ the code themselves.

FACT:
o The facts are clear to adults Apple does not sufficiently test software.
LOGIC:
o You form your own rational reasonable supportable logic based on that fact.

[Alan Baker]

On 2019-05-11 5:56 p.m., Arlen G. Holder wrote:
> On Sat, 11 May 2019 20:17:30 -0000 (UTC), Lewis wrote:
>
>> There is no fucking way half a billion iOS users are using Chrome.
>
> Hi Lewis,
>
> Do you apologists even _read_ the articles before you spout bullshit?
> o Quote: "this exploit is able to bypass that need for user interaction"

Did you?

'“With half a billion user sessions impacted, this is among the top
three massive malvertising campaigns that we have seen in the last 18
months.”'

Half a billion user SESSIONS isn't the same thing as half a billion
USERS, now is it?

[nospam]

In article <gjpasj...@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger

<jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:

> >>
> >> o Easter Attack Affects Half a Billion Apple iOS Users via Chrome Bug
> >
> > so not anything apple did, but rather a problem with software *google*
> > wrote.
> >
> > if only google tested their software before releasing it...
>

> All of Google's users are their beta testers.

gmail was called beta for the longest time...

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Sat, 11 May 2019 18:06:10 -0700, Alan Baker wrote:

> Did you?
>
> '´With half a billion user sessions impacted, this is among the top
> three massive malvertising campaigns that we have seen in the last 18
> months.¡'
>
> Half a billion user SESSIONS isn't the same thing as half a billion
> USERS, now is it?

Hi Alan Baker,

You are correct (AFAIK).
o Mea culpa.

*I publicly apologize to Lewis.*
o Even better, I congratulate you, Alan Baker, for actually _reading_ the cite!

THANK YOU for acting like an adult in _comprehending_ the difference
between users and sessions, where I much appreciate your pointing out the
fact that a cited article title spoke of "users" while the text of most of
the articles speaks about "sessions" or even "ads" (for the 500 billion
count).

This article calls them "500 million malicious ads" for example:
o *iPhone Users Under Attack As iOS Chrome Security Sandbox Fails*
<https://www.forbes.com/sites/daveywinder/2019/04/17/iphone-users-under-attack-as-ios-chrome-security-sandbox-fails/>

But this article calls them (erroneously, as you pointed out), "users":
o Massive Malvertising Campaign Targets Chrome Users on iPhone, iPad
<https://www.idropnews.com/news/massive-malvertising-campaign-targets-chrome-users-on-iphone-ipad/102931/>
"Since the campaign started 10 days ago, eGobbler has successfully
delivered ads to roughly 500 million iOS users [where] the ads
are just the vehicle for the malicious code"

While I rarely take anything Lewis says seriously, it's a great (adult)
point that you brought up - which is that the user count was intermingled
with the session count in those previously cited references.

So I do something that Apologists are known to almost never do.
o I apologize to Lewis for assuming he didn't read the reference.

I made the classic mistake of brazenly assuming Lewis was an idiot.
o When, in fact, Lewis had a valid point about the number of iOS Chrome users.
<https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/google-chrome/id535886823>

Facts never scare me, where factual clarifications are always appreciated.
o So what _is_ the current number of iOS Chrome users anyway?

To get to the number of iOS Chrome users will take some digging...

First hit is old: 17.4% of iOS users as of May 2013 used Chrome.
o Chrome, Vine, Yahoo use on the rise for iOS users
<https://gigaom.com/2013/06/13/chrome-vine-yahoo-use-on-the-rise-for-ios-users/>

Second hit is old: Percentage of iOS web "traffic" as of 10/2013 was 3%
o 50 Google Chrome Statistics
<https://expandedramblings.com/index.php/google-app-statistics/>

Third hit, Wikipedia, which has the _same_ old statistics on "traffic"
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Chrome>
"In October 2013, Chrome had 3% of the iOS browser market.[237]"

Where reference [237] is from 2013:
o Chrome's Share of iOS Usage Doubles Year-Over-Year to 3%
<https://www.macrumors.com/2013/10/11/chromes-share-of-ios-usage-doubles-year-over-year-to-3/>

Interestingly, it's not easy (yet) to figure out the _number_ of iOS Chrome
downloads, where search results all come up with "traffic", and even then,
they're old factual statistics...
<https://duckduckgo.com/?q=number+of+ios+chrome+downloads>
<https://www.bing.com/search?q=number+of+ios+chrome+downloads>
<https://www.google.com/search?&q=number+of+ios+chrome+downloads>
etc.

Facts never scare me - and - in fact - they bolster my belief systems.
o If I need to _change_ my belief system based on facts - I do.

Based on my search results alone, it's reasonable to tentatively conclude
that nobody on this newsgroup actually knows the number of iOS Chrome users
- but maybe they do?

The factual question is what is the number of iOS Chrome users anyway?

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Sun, 12 May 2019 02:56:50 -0000 (UTC), Arlen G. Holder wrote:

> THANK YOU for acting like an adult in _comprehending_ the difference
> between users and sessions, where I much appreciate your pointing out the
> fact that a cited article title spoke of "users" while the text of most of
> the articles speaks about "sessions" or even "ads" (for the 500 billion
> count).

... 500 million (not 500 billion) ...

[Alan Baker]

On 2019-05-11 7:56 p.m., Arlen G. Holder wrote:
> On Sat, 11 May 2019 18:06:10 -0700, Alan Baker wrote:
>
>> Did you?
>>
>> '´With half a billion user sessions impacted, this is among the top
>> three massive malvertising campaigns that we have seen in the last 18
>> months.¡'
>>
>> Half a billion user SESSIONS isn't the same thing as half a billion
>> USERS, now is it?
>
> Hi Alan Baker,
>
> You are correct (AFAIK).
> o Mea culpa.
>
> *I publicly apologize to Lewis.*
> o Even better, I congratulate you, Alan Baker, for actually _reading_ the cite!

What a pity YOU clearly hadn't.

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Sat, 11 May 2019 20:02:47 -0700, Alan Baker wrote:

>> o Even better, I congratulate you, Alan Baker, for actually _reading_ the cite!
>
> What a pity YOU clearly hadn't.

Hi Alan Baker,

Discretion is the better part of valor
o Hence, I will let your comments above slide off my back.

Since I'm not afraid of facts, the question to answer moving forward is...
o How many Chrome users (aka downloads) are there on iOS?

Do you know that answer?
o Does Lewis?

Does anyone?

[Alan Baker]

You're the one making a big deal out of a software bug.

You tell us.

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Sat, 11 May 2019 23:31:41 -0700, Alan Baker wrote:

> You're the one making a big deal out of a software bug.
>
> You tell us.

Hi Alan Baker,

Below is a philosophical discussion of why Apple ships insecure product.
o Adults first process facts - and then form rational defensible logic.

Rational logic can only form after you comprehend this basic fact
o Apple Macs & iOS devices consistently ship with both privacy & security
holes so big you can drive a bus through them - some of which - like the
Broadcom bug - Apple had the fix in hand - and _still_ shipped the release,
others of which, like the Mac root bugs, a child could find.

It's like a diarrhea of releases, Alan Baker
o Where the clueless customer _feels_ safe from the sheer frequency alone.

The import is that Apple doesn't ever test their software sufficiently.
o It's not "a" bug - but a never-ending litany of many security holes.

Remember, the point was that Apple _knew_ about this bug for years
o And yet, they _never_ even tested for it

DO you know why Apple never tests their software for privacy/security?
o I think I do.

HINT: Apple Marketing is the best of the best of the best.

I posit that Apple customers only want to _feel_ safe
o Not be safe.

Apple Marketing knows that MARKETING of the mere ILLUSION of safety
o Is all they need to convince those clueless customers they're safe.

That's why I bring up the example of the Apple Mommy
o Who tells the child the monsters can't get out of the closet

The Apple Mommy knows that it's just as effective to tell a fib
o Than it is to actually make the child safe while he sleeps

The "clue" that Apple does almost zero testing of software security
o Is in the "obviousness" of the huge security holes Apple ships

The FaceTime bug is an example where a mere _child_ could find it.
o Another example of total lack of testing is in the Mac root bugs

More examples of total lack of _any_ testing is in lockscreen bugs
o There are _so many_ security flaws that a _child_ could find, Alan.

The fact that _many_ security flaws could be found by a child
o Are the proof that Apple does almost _zero_ actual testing.

All Apple does, it seems ... is MARKET the ILLUSION of security
o Without actually testing for either security or privacy

I have ot admit, marketing the ILLUSION of security & privacy
o Works quite well for Apple - since their customer's eat it up

Since all the Apple customer wants is to _feel_ safe
o Apple's position, I posit, is why bother with expensive testing

Never forget - Apple marketing is brilliant
o They turned a dead Chinese woman into a marketing coup, for example.

If you refute even a _single_ obvious & well-known fact above...
o I'll simply supply the references, Alan Baker.

You can't change the facts by denying them...
o All you can do is form rational adult logic as to why the facts exist.

[sms]

On 5/11/2019 1:17 PM, Lewis wrote:

<snip>

> There is no fucking way half a billion iOS users are using Chrome.
> That's ridiculous.

No it's not. More than 2 billion iOS devices have been sold. While
Chrome may not be the only browser that iOS users are using, most iOS
users do have a second browser, often Chrome, installed for a couple of
reasons:

a) it's what they're used to on their Windows laptops and desktops and
you can sign into Chrome on any device and all your Google accounts,
bookmarks, data, etc. are right there. Back in 2012, before Apple
discontinued the Windows version of Safari, it was possible to use
Safari cross-platform, but no more. If you do everything in iOS or OS-X
then Safari is fine, but most people have to use Windows based machines
as well, at least occasionally, so they're likely using Chrome.

b) There is sometimes content that requires a different browser than Safari.

There are advantages to Safari as well of course, and it's a good idea
to use Safari as the main browser on iOS and OS-X devices, and only use
other browsers when necessary. On my iPhone and iPad I have Chrome,
Firefox, and Opera installed and have to use one of them occasionally.

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Sun, 12 May 2019 06:09:49 -0700, sms wrote:

> No it's not. More than 2 billion iOS devices have been sold.

Hi Steve,

Given that math - it's logical to assume at least half a billion users.

Your numbers appear to be sound in that we know in the very beginning,
after Chrome was out for only about a years, the Apple "user" count was
about 17%, which, if we assume has climbed to about 20% to 25%, equals half
a billion "users" who have downloaded the Chrome app.
<https://gigaom.com/2013/06/13/chrome-vine-yahoo-use-on-the-rise-for-ios-users/>

> While Chrome may not be the only browser that iOS users are using, most iOS
> users do have a second browser, often Chrome, installed for a couple of
> reasons:

One problem artificially limiting use of browsers is that iOS is the _only_
common consumer operating system which _restricts_ the users' choice of the
default browser.

So, for example, a web link in Gmail on iOS still opens up in Safari.

Also, the reports I read clearly said it's incredibly difficult to port a
browser to iOS due to, yet again, iOS restrictions (where Apple didn't let
other browsers use what Safari uses and yet they forced them to use the old
technology).

It's clearly what it is - which is a marketing restriction that helps Apple
o But, as always with Apple - the admittedly loyal customer comes last.

> Back in 2012, before Apple
> discontinued the Windows version of Safari, it was possible to use
> Safari cross-platform, but no more.

Cross platform solutions help the user - but - not Apple.
o Apple restricts the users' cross platform choices

Yet again, it's why it's easy to conclude the obvious, which is that
o The (admittedly loyal) Apple customer always comes last with Apple.

> If you do everything in iOS or OS-X
> then Safari is fine, but most people have to use Windows based machines
> as well, at least occasionally, so they're likely using Chrome.

While we can easily calculate reasonably that there are half a billion
Chrome users on iOS, it still would be nice to see a verified statistic
that backs up that reasonable logical assessment of the facts.

> On my iPhone and iPad I have Chrome,
> Firefox, and Opera installed and have to use one of them occasionally.

No Tor-based browsers?

[nospam]

In article <qb95uv$vdp$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> > There is no fucking way half a billion iOS users are using Chrome.
> > That's ridiculous.
>
> No it's not. More than 2 billion iOS devices have been sold.

not all of them are currently in active use.

> While
> Chrome may not be the only browser that iOS users are using, most iOS
> users do have a second browser, often Chrome, installed for a couple of
> reasons:

speculation.

you have no way to know what, if any, additional browsers most ios
users are using, and if they do use a second browser, which one it is.

> a) it's what they're used to on their Windows laptops and desktops and
> you can sign into Chrome on any device and all your Google accounts,
> bookmarks, data, etc. are right there.

that can be done with several browsers.

> Back in 2012, before Apple
> discontinued the Windows version of Safari, it was possible to use
> Safari cross-platform, but no more.

false.

> If you do everything in iOS or OS-X
> then Safari is fine, but most people have to use Windows based machines
> as well, at least occasionally, so they're likely using Chrome.

speculation again.

> b) There is sometimes content that requires a different browser than Safari.

very rarely.

> There are advantages to Safari as well of course, and it's a good idea
> to use Safari as the main browser on iOS and OS-X devices, and only use
> other browsers when necessary.

that depends on the user.

> On my iPhone and iPad I have Chrome,
> Firefox, and Opera installed and have to use one of them occasionally.

what you do is not representative of ios users. not by a long shot.

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Sun, 12 May 2019 10:42:01 -0400, nospam wrote:

> what you do is not representative of ios users. not by a long shot.

IMHO, the only thing nospam got right was that iOS users are generally
extremely limited in what they do (otherwise, iOS users "just give up").

Hence, for typical iOS user, a _single_ browser likely works just fine.
o That's sad; but that's likely a truthful assessment by nospam himself.

For anyone doing things, a single browser (on any platform) would be a farce.
o For example, I use at least a dozen browsers on Windows - each optimized for a task

But iOS users are, generally, not at all even close to that sophisticated.
o If the one browser they use fails - they constantly "just give up".

REFERENCE:
o Discussion of two different privacy-related browser philosophies
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.comp.freeware/H4694--5znY/LOOCa11RBgAJ>

[Alan Baker]

On 2019-05-12 5:18 a.m., Arlen G. Holder wrote:
> On Sat, 11 May 2019 23:31:41 -0700, Alan Baker wrote:
>
>> You're the one making a big deal out of a software bug.
>>
>> You tell us.
>
> Hi Alan Baker,
>
> Below is a philosophical discussion of why Apple ships insecure product.
> o Adults first process facts - and then form rational defensible logic.

No, Arlen.

It is NOT a discussion at all.

It is a DIATRIBE.

[Lewis]

In message <qb95uv$vdp$1...@dont-email.me> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> On 5/11/2019 1:17 PM, Lewis wrote:

> <snip>

>> There is no fucking way half a billion iOS users are using Chrome.
>> That's ridiculous.

> No it's not. More than 2 billion iOS devices have been sold. While
> Chrome may not be the only browser that iOS users are using, most iOS
> users do have a second browser, often Chrome, installed for a couple of
> reasons:

Most? You're making that up.

MOST iOS user have NO apps installed.

--
I got a question. If you guys know so much about women, how come you're
here at like the Gas 'n' Sip on a Saturday night completely alone
drinking beers with no women anywhere?

[Lewis]

That makes sense. Of course dipshit liar can't comprehend simple words,
but we all already knew that.


--
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a
little way past them into the impossible.

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Sun, 12 May 2019 08:42:32 -0700, Alan Baker wrote:

> It is NOT a discussion at all.

Hi Alan Baker,
I'll make the factual observations simpler for you
o To help you and others think like adults are supposed to think

FACTS:
Apple repeatedly & incessantly ships insecure poorly tested products.
o At the same time that Apple over promises on security & privacy.

FACTS:
Apple lovers on this newsgroup consistently tout the frequency of release
o And yet, they rarely tout the actual "quality" of said releases

OBSERVATION:
Apple's admittedly loyal customers don't seem to care about this fact.
O Where some of the shipped insecurities can be found by a mere child.

LOGIC:
Since Apple spends tremendous energy on touting imaginary security
o The only reasonable conclusion is that touting security is enough.

OBSERVATION:
Just like what Ford did, with touting "Quality is Job One"
o The mere ILLUSION of privacy & security is all Apple needs.

Hence, I logically supportably reason the following observation:

While Apple customers clearly desperately want to _feel_ safe
o Those admittedly loyal Apple customers don't realize they're not safe.

They just seem to want frequent diarrhea of releases
o Where the frequency alone, is apparently what makes them _feel_ safe.

This is easily shown to be a reasonable argument based on facts & logic.
o Where adults shouldn't disagree on obvious fact - but adults can
reasonably disagree on interpretation of the agreed obvious facts.

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Sun, 12 May 2019 15:49:59 -0000 (UTC), Lewis wrote:

>> Half a billion user SESSIONS isn't the same thing as half a billion
>> USERS, now is it?
>
> That makes sense. Of course dipshit liar can't comprehend simple words,
> but we all already knew that.

Hi Lewis,

I love when you, Alan Baker, and Jolly Roger post
o Because, IMHO, you clearly own the minds of archetypical iOS users.

It's interesting that you and Jolly Roger are typical iOS users in that you
_instantly_ resort to rebutting facts with slurs.

You rebut facts with slurs even when it appears that you were just
guessing.

The facts appear to show that neither you, nor anyone on this newsgroup,
knows how many Chrome users there actually are on iOS.

You just guessed.
o Without a single fact to back up your guess (as far as anyone can tell).

Nonetheless, Steve's sub thread clearly shows that half a billion is a
reasonable number, with more being likely given the facts as we know them.

We know that over 17% of iOS users downloaded Chrome only one year after
it's introduction in 2012, where if we assume that number alone remained
stable, all we'd have to do is multiply that against the number of current
iOS devices out there.

Given the number of current devices, and given that Chrome has been
improved since (as did Safari), the percentage could easily have grown.

Still - you and Alan Baker _love_ to make claims which are mere guesses
o Where I will await the facts to state what the verified numbers are

But clearly, rational adults could conclude the number could easily
be half a billion - but I say that at the same time that I state that
nobody yet who has posted has shown any evidence either way other than what
I unearthed at 17% six years ago and what Steve noted were 2B total units
sold.

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Sun, 12 May 2019 15:48:37 -0000 (UTC), Lewis wrote:

> Most? You're making that up.
>
> MOST iOS user have NO apps installed.

Hi Lewis,

This is a verbatim quote:
"For iOS users Chrome Mobile is arguably the most common
alternative choice [to Safari]".
<https://deviceatlas.com/blog/most-used-mobile-browsers-q3-2016>

How many current iOS users are there?
o Multiply that times the percentage who have downloaded Chrome

My belief system will be based on _that_ fact
o Where the number of Chrome downloads is surprisingly hard to find

Your belief system is apparently supported by exactly zero facts
o While the belief system of normal adults changes based on the facts

It's interesting that you claim Steve just made it up...
o When you clearly just made up your claim about Chrome browser figures

Nobody yet has posted reliable _current_ statistics on Chrome iOS usage
o Where a reasonable adult assessment could support half a billion iOS downloads
<https://expandedramblings.com/index.php/google-app-statistics/>

FACTS:
o Clearly Chrome owns the market overall, while Safari owns just the iOS market:
<http://gs.statcounter.com/>
<https://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_chrome.asp>

It's surprisingly difficult, so far, to _find_ good iOS Chrome stats though.
o Market share held by leading mobile internet browsers
o in the United States from January 2015 to October 2018
<https://www.statista.com/statistics/272664/market-share-held-by-mobile-browsers-in-the-us/>

I realize you'll simply call all facts you don't like, trolls.
o So rest assured, we're all aware you provided exactly zero facts

You just guess.
o Hence, your credibility is no better than the results of a coin toss

[Alan Baker]

On 2019-05-12 9:30 a.m., Arlen G. Holder wrote:
> On Sun, 12 May 2019 08:42:32 -0700, Alan Baker wrote:
>
>> It is NOT a discussion at all.
>
> Hi Alan Baker,
> I'll make the factual observations simpler for you
> o To help you and others think like adults are supposed to think
>
> FACTS:
> Apple repeatedly & incessantly ships insecure poorly tested products.
> o At the same time that Apple over promises on security & privacy.

Opinion isn't fact.

>
> FACTS:
> Apple lovers on this newsgroup consistently tout the frequency of release
> o And yet, they rarely tout the actual "quality" of said releases

That is simply false.

I dare you to quote a SINGLE post "touting" any OS release.

>
> OBSERVATION:
> Apple's admittedly loyal customers don't seem to care about this fact.
> O Where some of the shipped insecurities can be found by a mere child.
>
> LOGIC:
> Since Apple spends tremendous energy on touting imaginary security
> o The only reasonable conclusion is that touting security is enough.

Logic based on a false premise is nothing.

>
> OBSERVATION:
> Just like what Ford did, with touting "Quality is Job One"
> o The mere ILLUSION of privacy & security is all Apple needs.
>
> Hence, I logically supportably reason the following observation:
>
> While Apple customers clearly desperately want to _feel_ safe
> o Those admittedly loyal Apple customers don't realize they're not safe.
>
> They just seem to want frequent diarrhea of releases
> o Where the frequency alone, is apparently what makes them _feel_ safe.
>
> This is easily shown to be a reasonable argument based on facts & logic.
> o Where adults shouldn't disagree on obvious fact - but adults can
> reasonably disagree on interpretation of the agreed obvious facts.

If only you actually presented facts...

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Sun, 12 May 2019 11:50:24 -0700, Alan Baker wrote:

> Opinion isn't fact.

Hi Alan Baker,

You do know the basic obvious facts, right?
o Apple incessantly ships highly insecure products
o With security & privacy holes so big you can drive a bus through them
o Where a mere child could circumvent lock screens, root, & FaceTime.

Your belief system should be based on _those_ facts, since they're facts.
o You do know that, right?

Oh.
Really?
You don't?

Ah, I see now why you can't come to a logical reasonable assessment.
o If you don't know the facts ... what is your belief system based on?

[Alan Baker]

On 2019-05-12 5:32 p.m., Arlen G. Holder wrote:
> On Sun, 12 May 2019 11:50:24 -0700, Alan Baker wrote:
>
>> Opinion isn't fact.
>
> Hi Alan Baker,
>
> You do know the basic obvious facts, right?
> o Apple incessantly ships highly insecure products

That's not a fact.

> o With security & privacy holes so big you can drive a bus through them

That's not a fact.

> o Where a mere child could circumvent lock screens, root, & FaceTime.

That's not a fact.

>

> Your belief system should be based on _those_ facts, since they're facts.
> o You do know that, right?

They're not facts.

You've failed to prove major elements of your assertions.

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Sun, 12 May 2019 18:29:05 -0700, Alan Baker wrote:

> They're not facts.

Hi Alan Baker,

Adults comprehend facts first; and then form rational belief systems.

You just proved your belief system is entirely imaginary, Alan Baker
o Because your beliefs are based on _zero_ actual facts.

The fact is I listed a set of well-known (already cited) actual facts
o Where Apple shipped product a child could break into (and did).

You denied those facts simply because you don't _like_ those facts
o Hence, you proved for me that your belief system is wholly imaginary.

*Thank you, Alan Baker, for proving my point about Apple Apologists.*

[sms]

On 5/12/2019 8:48 AM, Lewis wrote:
> In message <qb95uv$vdp$1...@dont-email.me> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>> On 5/11/2019 1:17 PM, Lewis wrote:
>
>> <snip>
>
>>> There is no fucking way half a billion iOS users are using Chrome.
>>> That's ridiculous.
>
>> No it's not. More than 2 billion iOS devices have been sold. While
>> Chrome may not be the only browser that iOS users are using, most iOS
>> users do have a second browser, often Chrome, installed for a couple of
>> reasons:
>
> Most? You're making that up.
>
> MOST iOS user have NO apps installed.

LOL. Where do you come up with this kind of stuff?

For 2018, Chrome was in the top 20 of apps that iOS users have installed
themselves.
<https://mashable.com/article/apple-most-popular-iphone-apps-2018/> In
fact, four of the top twenty apps for iOS users are from Google, Google
Chrome, Google Photos, Google Maps, and Gmail. I was surprised that Waze
is not on that list.

I'm sure that Apple would be thrilled if all those iOS users were to
exclusively use the equivalent iOS app, but that's unrealistic.

As to how many apps the average user has installed on their phone (not
including the pre-installed apps), one analysis stated that in 2016 it
was 33.
<https://www.businessinsider.com/how-much-apple-iphone-user-spends-per-year-on-apps-sensor-tower-2017-2>.

Where on earth did you get the idea that most iOS users have no apps
installed? Do you have a reference for that?

You can do the math. If the average number of downloaded apps is 33, and
Chrome is in the top 20, then Chrome is being installed by a very large
number of iOS users. And whether the typical iOS user is actually using
Chrome on a regular basis is immaterial, they still have it installed.

The reason for the popularity of Google's apps on iOS devices is that
while iOS has a big market share, at least in the U.S. and Europe, most
iPhone users also use Windows laptops and desktops at home and/or at
work, where the apps provided by Google dominate, and they want to use
the same apps on iOS devices.

Also, many people have company-provided iPhones for business use
(because only a handful of Android devices provide the enterprise level
security that is present on all new iPhones), but use Android phones for
their personal use because of the lower prices for both flagship and
lower-end devices, and they want app commonality between their devices.

I'd say that where I work the iPhone market share is at least 90%, the
iPad market share is at least 99%, but there are no Macs at all because
many of the applications we use require Windows. I suppose we could buy
Macs and install Windows, but that would be a big extra expense, and it
still wouldn't be ideal because several of the apps we use work much
better with touch screen/active stylus desktops and laptops.

[Alan Browne]

On 2019-05-12 11:48, Lewis wrote:
> In message <qb95uv$vdp$1...@dont-email.me> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>> On 5/11/2019 1:17 PM, Lewis wrote:
>
>> <snip>
>
>>> There is no fucking way half a billion iOS users are using Chrome.
>>> That's ridiculous.
>
>> No it's not. More than 2 billion iOS devices have been sold. While
>> Chrome may not be the only browser that iOS users are using, most iOS
>> users do have a second browser, often Chrome, installed for a couple of
>> reasons:
>
> Most? You're making that up.
>
> MOST iOS user have NO apps installed.

Many people install crap like facerip, twattle, and so on as their
"social messworks" are so important - that's why they have smartphones
in the first place for the most part.

(Not to mention: iOS comes bundled with a lot of apps, so your "NO apps
installed" is a bit off. Well, a lot off).

Then people actually install useful stuff like Google Maps, e-mail, etc.
and Chrome and much more...

As to Chrome, the numbers break:

1.4B active iOS devices. (2019, MacRumours).

3.9% of those have Chrome installed and being used regularly (ZDNet,
2016). So 55 M ish. 96% regularly use Safari (same source). That is
not to say there are not more that 55M.

(On Android it's 88% Chrome).

--
"2/3 of Donald Trump's wives were immigrants. Proof that we
need immigrants to do jobs that most Americans wouldn't do."
- unknown protester

[sms]

On 5/13/2019 8:20 AM, Alan Browne wrote:

> 3.9% of those have Chrome installed and being used regularly (ZDNet,
> 2016).

How many have Chrome installed but are not using it regularly? Since
Chrome is in the top 20 of non-pre-installed iOS apps, I suspect that
the percentage is somewhat greater than 3.9%.

I don't use Firefox or Opera on my laptop regularly, but it's there for
when a web site doesn't work in Chrome. When Safari had a Windows
version I had that installed as well.

[nospam]

In article <qbc113$8o9$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> >>> There is no fucking way half a billion iOS users are using Chrome.
> >>> That's ridiculous.
> >
> >> No it's not. More than 2 billion iOS devices have been sold. While
> >> Chrome may not be the only browser that iOS users are using, most iOS
> >> users do have a second browser, often Chrome, installed for a couple of
> >> reasons:
> >
> > Most? You're making that up.
> >
> > MOST iOS user have NO apps installed.
>
> LOL. Where do you come up with this kind of stuff?

he's mostly correct.

most ios users do not have very many apps installed, other than games
(the largest genre) and the likes of facebook, instagram, netflix,
venmo, uber, etc.

> For 2018, Chrome was in the top 20 of apps that iOS users have installed
> themselves.
> <https://mashable.com/article/apple-most-popular-iphone-apps-2018/> In
> fact, four of the top twenty apps for iOS users are from Google, Google
> Chrome, Google Photos, Google Maps, and Gmail. I was surprised that Waze
> is not on that list.

that's a list of most popular, not what percentage have installed them.

> I'm sure that Apple would be thrilled if all those iOS users were to
> exclusively use the equivalent iOS app, but that's unrealistic.

it's not unrealistic at all, particularly for browsers, where safari is
without question, the dominant browser and has been for many years:
<https://zdnet3.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2016/06/18/4a75df53-a922-492c-9a6
b-a1f5bd7067f1/resize/770xauto/cc8ef8a8bab20222998455f413ec8279/browser-
share-june-2016-ios.jpg>

<https://cdn.searchenginejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/PieChart.
jpg>

> As to how many apps the average user has installed on their phone (not
> including the pre-installed apps), one analysis stated that in 2016 it
> was 33.
>
> <https://www.businessinsider.com/how-much-apple-iphone-user-spends-per-year-on-
> apps-sensor-tower-2017-2>.

according to that, more than 80% are games, which leaves about 6 apps
that are not. subtract out social media and there ain't much left.

> Where on earth did you get the idea that most iOS users have no apps
> installed? Do you have a reference for that?

it's well known information among ios app developers.

> You can do the math. If the average number of downloaded apps is 33, and
> Chrome is in the top 20, then Chrome is being installed by a very large
> number of iOS users.

false. it's actually quite low.

again:
<https://zdnet3.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2016/06/18/4a75df53-a922-492c-9a6
b-a1f5bd7067f1/resize/770xauto/cc8ef8a8bab20222998455f413ec8279/browser-
share-june-2016-ios.jpg>

<https://cdn.searchenginejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/PieChart.
jpg>

> And whether the typical iOS user is actually using
> Chrome on a regular basis is immaterial, they still have it installed.

having it installed and not using it is as good as not having it
installed at all. in other words, it doesn't count.

> The reason for the popularity of Google's apps on iOS devices is that
> while iOS has a big market share, at least in the U.S. and Europe, most
> iPhone users also use Windows laptops and desktops at home and/or at
> work, where the apps provided by Google dominate, and they want to use
> the same apps on iOS devices.

nonsense.

> Also, many people have company-provided iPhones for business use
> (because only a handful of Android devices provide the enterprise level
> security that is present on all new iPhones), but use Android phones for
> their personal use because of the lower prices for both flagship and
> lower-end devices, and they want app commonality between their devices.

also not relevant.

[nospam]

In article <4qidndJS9vvIFkTB...@giganews.com>, Alan Browne

<bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:

> >>> There is no fucking way half a billion iOS users are using Chrome.
> >>> That's ridiculous.
> >
> >> No it's not. More than 2 billion iOS devices have been sold. While
> >> Chrome may not be the only browser that iOS users are using, most iOS
> >> users do have a second browser, often Chrome, installed for a couple of
> >> reasons:
> >
> > Most? You're making that up.
> >
> > MOST iOS user have NO apps installed.
>
> Many people install crap like facerip, twattle, and so on as their
> "social messworks" are so important - that's why they have smartphones
> in the first place for the most part.

games are the biggest group.

> (Not to mention: iOS comes bundled with a lot of apps, so your "NO apps
> installed" is a bit off. Well, a lot off).

he obviously means no third party apps.

> Then people actually install useful stuff like Google Maps, e-mail, etc.
> and Chrome and much more...

actually not that many.

> As to Chrome, the numbers break:
>
> 1.4B active iOS devices. (2019, MacRumours).
>
> 3.9% of those have Chrome installed and being used regularly (ZDNet,
> 2016). So 55 M ish. 96% regularly use Safari (same source). That is
> not to say there are not more that 55M.

3.9%, or ~55 million out of 1.4 billion, is lost in the noise.

<https://zdnet3.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2016/06/18/4a75df53-a922-492c-9a6
b-a1f5bd7067f1/resize/770xauto/cc8ef8a8bab20222998455f413ec8279/browser-
share-june-2016-ios.jpg>

> (On Android it's 88% Chrome).

no surprise there.

[nospam]

In article <qbc3ds$o8k$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

>
> > 3.9% of those have Chrome installed and being used regularly (ZDNet,
> > 2016).
>
> How many have Chrome installed but are not using it regularly? Since
> Chrome is in the top 20 of non-pre-installed iOS apps, I suspect that
> the percentage is somewhat greater than 3.9%.

the number of users who have it installed and do not use it does not
matter. it's as good as not installed at all.

the reality is that almost nobody uses chrome on ios.

> I don't use Firefox or Opera on my laptop regularly, but it's there for
> when a web site doesn't work in Chrome. When Safari had a Windows
> version I had that installed as well.

the only reason for windows safari was to test web apps for ios.

[Alan Baker]

On 2019-05-13 7:17 a.m., Arlen G. Holder wrote:
> On Sun, 12 May 2019 18:29:05 -0700, Alan Baker wrote:
>
>> They're not facts.
>
> Hi Alan Baker,
>
> Adults comprehend facts first; and then form rational belief systems.
>
> You just proved your belief system is entirely imaginary, Alan Baker
> o Because your beliefs are based on _zero_ actual facts.

Sorry, but you claiming something doesn't make it a fact.

>
> The fact is I listed a set of well-known (already cited) actual facts
> o Where Apple shipped product a child could break into (and did).

No. The "child" did not "break into" anything.

He happened to stumble on a software bug.

[Savageduck]

On May 13, 2019, Alan Browne wrote
(in article<4qidndJS9vvIFkTB...@giganews.com>):

> On 2019-05-12 11:48, Lewis wrote:
> > In message<qb95uv$vdp$1...@dont-email.me> sms<scharf...@geemail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > On 5/11/2019 1:17 PM, Lewis wrote:
> >
> > > <snip>
> >
> > > > There is no fucking way half a billion iOS users are using Chrome.
> > > > That's ridiculous.
> >
> > > No it's not. More than 2 billion iOS devices have been sold. While
> > > Chrome may not be the only browser that iOS users are using, most iOS
> > > users do have a second browser, often Chrome, installed for a couple of
> > > reasons:
> >
> > Most? You're making that up.
> >
> > MOST iOS user have NO apps installed.
>
> Many people install crap like facerip, twattle, and so on as their
> "social messworks" are so important - that's why they have smartphones
> in the first place for the most part.
>
> (Not to mention: iOS comes bundled with a lot of apps, so your "NO apps
> installed" is a bit off. Well, a lot off).
>
> Then people actually install useful stuff like Google Maps, e-mail, etc.
> and Chrome and much more...

I can’t speak for other iOS users, but I have gone through a fair number of
apps some of which faded into oblivion, or died on the vine due to
wishy-washy developer support, some of which have been superseded by improved
updates, or by far better apps which serve the same purpose.

I use a mix of iOS bundled apps, and a few others such as Lightroom CC (&
other Adobe mobile apps), Affinity Photo(iPad), PhotoPills, SmugMug Dropbox,
ArtStudio Pro, Procreate, Healow, Mobile Passport, NewsTap, Google Maps,
various news apps, iBird Ultimate, CoPilot, various bank/finance apps, a VPN,
and one game, Sudoku Master Edition.

I have Chrome installed, but it is not my primary browser, I still end up
using Safari.

--
Regards,
Savageduck

[Lewis]

In message <qbc113$8o9$1...@dont-email.me> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> On 5/12/2019 8:48 AM, Lewis wrote:
>> In message <qb95uv$vdp$1...@dont-email.me> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>> On 5/11/2019 1:17 PM, Lewis wrote:
>>
>>> <snip>
>>
>>>> There is no fucking way half a billion iOS users are using Chrome.
>>>> That's ridiculous.
>>
>>> No it's not. More than 2 billion iOS devices have been sold. While
>>> Chrome may not be the only browser that iOS users are using, most iOS
>>> users do have a second browser, often Chrome, installed for a couple of
>>> reasons:
>>
>> Most? You're making that up.
>>
>> MOST iOS user have NO apps installed.

> LOL. Where do you come up with this kind of stuff?

A report on app usage a year or three ago.

> For 2018, Chrome was in the top 20 of apps that iOS users have installed
> themselves.

Irrelevant.

> As to how many apps the average user has installed on their phone (not
> including the pre-installed apps), one analysis stated that in 2016 it
> was 33.

Irrelevant. There are people with hundreds, and people with zero. You
are confusing average with norm. Perhaps a remedial math course in in
order?

--
Forgive your enemies, but remember their names.

[Lewis]

In message <4qidndJS9vvIFkTB...@giganews.com> Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
> On 2019-05-12 11:48, Lewis wrote:
>> In message <qb95uv$vdp$1...@dont-email.me> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>> On 5/11/2019 1:17 PM, Lewis wrote:
>>
>>> <snip>
>>
>>>> There is no fucking way half a billion iOS users are using Chrome.
>>>> That's ridiculous.
>>
>>> No it's not. More than 2 billion iOS devices have been sold. While
>>> Chrome may not be the only browser that iOS users are using, most iOS
>>> users do have a second browser, often Chrome, installed for a couple of
>>> reasons:
>>
>> Most? You're making that up.
>>
>> MOST iOS user have NO apps installed.

> Many people install crap like facerip, twattle, and so on as their
> "social messworks" are so important - that's why they have smartphones
> in the first place for the most part.

And many do not and use Safari to access those services.

> (Not to mention: iOS comes bundled with a lot of apps, so your "NO apps
> installed" is a bit off. Well, a lot off).

Oh, fuck off. You know perfectly well installed apps are separate from
those included in the OS. Thanks for playing, but this stupidity
disqualifies you from the adult table.

> 3.9% of those have Chrome installed and being used regularly (ZDNet,
> 2016). So 55 M ish. 96% regularly use Safari (same source). That is
> not to say there are not more that 55M.

WOW! ALMOST 4%! THAT'S AMAZING! BILLIONS!

--
Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder. Elves are marvelous. They
cause marvels. Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies. Elves are
glamorous. They project glamour. Elves are enchanting. They weave
enchantment. Elves are terrific. They beget terror.

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Mon, 13 May 2019 09:03:22 -0700, Alan Baker wrote:

> No. The "child" did not "break into" anything.
>
> He happened to stumble on a software bug.

Hi Alan Baker,

Facts first - and then reasonable rational adult logic based on fact.

The difference between you and me is my belief system is based on facts.
o Apple _repeatedly_ releases insufficiently tested software (constantly)

This diarrhea of Apple releases is _frequently_ so insecure...
o That a mere child can break into it (and did).

The facts abound, where I _repeat_ facts your belief system ignores:

o Anyone can hack into MacOS High Sierra simply by typing "root"!
<https://www.wired.com/story/macos-high-sierra-hack-root/>

o Yet another non-root password-stealing bug on Apple (Apple _never_ tests sufficiently - and doesn't even KNOW what this bug is yet!)
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/ocCnzVh3BxQ>

o An astounding list of security vulnerabilities found in Apple software
<https://www.zerodayinitiative.com/blog/2017/5/15/the-may-2017-apple-security-update-review>

o Lockscreen exploit easily found only hours after iOS 12.1 released
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/N-hQKPDI4a0/4tfgLojLAAAJ>

o Apple Macs Have Yet Another Password-Bypassing Bug
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.sys.mac.system/4rM5ZPCgThI/X8HEf0BvCAAJ>

o Yet more proof Apple doesn't test software sufficiently (this time not only from Facebook but also from Expedia, Hollister and Hotels.com)
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/8HfdPOQVNVk>

o Apple Was Slow to Act on FaceTime Bug That Allows Spying on iPhones
<https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/29/technology/facetime-glitch-apple.html>

o New Mac Malware steals iPhone text messages from iTunes backups
<https://www.hackread.com/mac-malware-steals-iphone-text-messages-from-itunes-backups/>

etc (that's only a small sample of the recent diarrhea from Apple)

HINT: Anyone with a belief system based on actual facts...
o Must incorporate those security holes (& plenty more) into their beliefs.

Children form belief systems that don't take into account the facts
o That's why children believe in the tooth fairy, for example.

Adults incorporate actual facts into their belief systems
o Except apologists - who all appear to own imaginary belief systems

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Mon, 13 May 2019 08:04:01 -0700, sms wrote:

> LOL. Where do you come up with this kind of stuff?

Hi Steve,
Lewis is a well-known Apple Apologist, so we _know_ where he gets his facts
o Lewis just makes them up (and, worse, he _believes_ what he makes up)

> Where on earth did you get the idea that most iOS users have no apps
> installed? Do you have a reference for that?

The sad thing is that Lewis actually _believes_ what he makes up.

> For 2018, Chrome was in the top 20 of apps that iOS users have installed
> themselves.
> <https://mashable.com/article/apple-most-popular-iphone-apps-2018/> In
> fact, four of the top twenty apps for iOS users are from Google, Google
> Chrome, Google Photos, Google Maps, and Gmail. I was surprised that Waze
> is not on that list.

This is interesting list of the most popular free apps downloaded on iOS!
o That fact further supports that there could be 500 million iOS Chrome'rs

In addition, it supports the reliable observation that Apple has never once
created a best-in-class free app that works outside the walled garden.

My friends at Apple say they're going to beat Google Maps, which, I say all
the power to them (I love competition); but the facts show that Apple just
can't create best-in-class free apps (but they do have best-in-class
marketing of the apps that they do create).

The Apologists fall for the marketing of "best in class" sans evidence
o Because apologists clearly gravitate to mere ILLUSION of functionality

What's sad is that YouTube, which is a privacy leak that iOS users aren't
even aware of, it seems, is the "most popular" download, where, on Android,
we at least have privacy when we watch and subscribe to videos.

This utter lack of privacy on iOS is shockingly obvious, when the fact that
privacy doesn't exist on iOS for watching, downloading, searching, saving,
subscribing, etc., to YouTube videos - and yet - that privacy easily exists
- for free - on Android.

These are what that article said were the most popular iOS downloads:
YouTube
Instagram
Snapchat
Messenger
Facebook
Bitmoji
Netflix
Google Maps
Gmail
Spotify Music
Amazon
Uber
WhatsApp Messenger
Pandora
Wish
TikTok
Cash App
Google Photos
*Google Chrome*
Twitter

If that list was in order (which it appears to be), Chrome was the 19th
most popular free app downloaded from the iOS app store.

> As to how many apps the average user has installed on their phone (not
> including the pre-installed apps), one analysis stated that in 2016 it
> was 33.
> <https://www.businessinsider.com/how-much-apple-iphone-user-spends-per-year-on-apps-sensor-tower-2017-2>.

Thank you for unearthing that fact, and for countering Lewis' imaginary
belief system with that fact.

I think 33 is pretty small (I have many (many) times that, for example),
but it's likely reasonable for the average iOS user such as Lewis (and the
apologists) almost always prove to emulate.

It's interesting though, that Lewis (and nospam, and all the apologists)
will likely deny the facts you unearthed.

Why?
o I don't know why.

I think the reason is that facts don't fit into their imaginary beliefs.
o To preserve their imaginary belief system - they must deny the facts.

I think they're actually _afraid_ of facts, because...
o Facts instantly DESTROY their entire belief system merely by existing.

> You can do the math. If the average number of downloaded apps is 33, and
> Chrome is in the top 20, then Chrome is being installed by a very large
> number of iOS users. And whether the typical iOS user is actually using
> Chrome on a regular basis is immaterial, they still have it installed.

I must commend you, Steve, for that rational reasonable logic.
o Based on facts.

If the average number is 33, and if Chrome is in the top 20, then Chrome,
_must_ be installed on a "hellova lot" of iOS devices, since there are a
hellova lot of iOS users out there.

It's a reasonable assessment of the facts.
o Let's see how the apologists respond to fact & adult reason.

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Mon, 13 May 2019 16:47:35 -0000 (UTC), Lewis wrote:

> A report on app usage a year or three ago.

Notice apple apologists almost always fail the simple 3-word adult test:
o Name just one

Lewis' belief system is entirely imaginary
o He can't name a single cite that backs up his belief system

Do you know why?
o I do.

Apologists tend to form belief systems which are completely imaginary.

That's why they _hate_ anyone who is an adult who speaks facts.
o The apologists deny facts outright - and call the bearer of fact, a troll

Do you know why?
o I think I do.

Apologists own imaginary belief system which are DESTROYED by facts.

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Mon, 13 May 2019 11:47:47 -0400, nospam wrote:

> the number of users who have it installed and do not use it does not
> matter. it's as good as not installed at all.

Hi nospam,

I'd have to check in the canonical "PRIVACY" thread, but there was
evidence, as I recall, that Chrome was making hidden secret connections
even when the phone was just "sitting there" (as I recall from this rather
long thread on the topic of iOS & Android privacy differences):
o What is the factual truth about PRIVACY differences or similarities between the Android & iOS mobile phone ecosystems?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/FCKRA_3i9CY>

Assuming my memory is correct, we can combine that circumstance with the
fact that malware authors would, likely, _love_ to hijack that hidden
connection mechanism, where we already know that this Chrome malware
appears to not require constant user input to deliver its malware.

This may leave open the possibility that Chrome can possibly be hijacked by
a sophisticated malware attacker, even if it's just sitting there.

I'm not saying that this _is_ happening --- just that it might be possible.

[sms]

On 5/13/2019 9:47 AM, Lewis wrote:
> In message <qbc113$8o9$1...@dont-email.me> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>> On 5/12/2019 8:48 AM, Lewis wrote:
>>> In message <qb95uv$vdp$1...@dont-email.me> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 5/11/2019 1:17 PM, Lewis wrote:
>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>>> There is no fucking way half a billion iOS users are using Chrome.
>>>>> That's ridiculous.
>>>
>>>> No it's not. More than 2 billion iOS devices have been sold. While
>>>> Chrome may not be the only browser that iOS users are using, most iOS
>>>> users do have a second browser, often Chrome, installed for a couple of
>>>> reasons:
>>>
>>> Most? You're making that up.
>>>
>>> MOST iOS user have NO apps installed.
>
>> LOL. Where do you come up with this kind of stuff?
>
> A report on app usage a year or three ago.

Please provide the reference for that. Of course you can't, or you would
have.

Here's one more reference you can use to help educate yourself:
<https://9to5mac.com/2017/05/05/average-app-user-per-day/>
"Data from App Annie shows that the average smartphone owner spends 2
hours and 15 minutes a day using apps – the equivalent of one month a
year. The average person has 60-90 apps installed on their phone, using
around 30 of them each month and launching 9 per day."

[nospam]

In article <qbccm2$ml6$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen G. Holder

<arling...@nospam.net> wrote:

> I'd have to check in the canonical "PRIVACY" thread, but there was
> evidence, as I recall, that Chrome was making hidden secret connections
> even when the phone was just "sitting there" (as I recall from this rather
> long thread on the topic of iOS & Android privacy differences):

it cannot.

[nospam]

In article <qbcf4i$570$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> >>>> No it's not. More than 2 billion iOS devices have been sold. While
> >>>> Chrome may not be the only browser that iOS users are using, most iOS
> >>>> users do have a second browser, often Chrome, installed for a couple of
> >>>> reasons:
> >>>
> >>> Most? You're making that up.
> >>>
> >>> MOST iOS user have NO apps installed.
> >
> >> LOL. Where do you come up with this kind of stuff?
> >
> > A report on app usage a year or three ago.
>
> Please provide the reference for that. Of course you can't, or you would
> have.
>
> Here's one more reference you can use to help educate yourself:
> <https://9to5mac.com/2017/05/05/average-app-user-per-day/>
> "Data from App Annie shows that the average smartphone owner spends 2
> hours and 15 minutes a day using apps ­ the equivalent of one month a
> year. The average person has 60-90 apps installed on their phone, using
> around 30 of them each month and launching 9 per day."

that is counting pre-installed apps.

if you click the survey link, it shows that nearly 50% of users only
use 5-9 apps, quite a bit less than what you're pretending, with users
who use more than 20 only at 5%.

<https://techcrunch.com/2015/06/22/consumers-spend-85-of-time-on-smartph
ones-in-apps-but-only-5-apps-see-heavy-use/>
Today¹s consumers are spending over 85 percent of their time on
their smartphones using native applications, but the majority of
their time ­ 84 percent ­ is spent using just five non-native apps
they¹ve installed from the App Store

note that last sentence: only 5 non-native apps.

what lewis said, while not exactly correct, is mostly correct.

and again, what matters is not how many apps are installed, but how
many are actually used. a lot of apps are downloaded and used once or
twice, then never used again (or very, very rarely).

your original claim that most ios users use chrome as a second browser
is completely false:
<https://zdnet3.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2016/06/18/4a75df53-a922-492c-9a6
b-a1f5bd7067f1/resize/770xauto/cc8ef8a8bab20222998455f413ec8279/browser-
share-june-2016-ios.jpg>

[Lewis]

In message <qbcf4i$570$1...@dont-email.me> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> On 5/13/2019 9:47 AM, Lewis wrote:
>> In message <qbc113$8o9$1...@dont-email.me> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>> On 5/12/2019 8:48 AM, Lewis wrote:
>>>> In message <qb95uv$vdp$1...@dont-email.me> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 5/11/2019 1:17 PM, Lewis wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>>>> There is no fucking way half a billion iOS users are using Chrome.
>>>>>> That's ridiculous.
>>>>
>>>>> No it's not. More than 2 billion iOS devices have been sold. While
>>>>> Chrome may not be the only browser that iOS users are using, most iOS
>>>>> users do have a second browser, often Chrome, installed for a couple of
>>>>> reasons:
>>>>
>>>> Most? You're making that up.
>>>>
>>>> MOST iOS user have NO apps installed.
>>
>>> LOL. Where do you come up with this kind of stuff?
>>
>> A report on app usage a year or three ago.

> Please provide the reference for that. Of course you can't, or you would
> have.

I could, probably, if I wanted to expend the effort to dig it up again.
I don't care enough to do so, so you can believe that everyone has
installed apps on their iOS device if you want, but that will simply
show your general ignorance.

> Here's one more reference you can use to help educate yourself:
> <https://9to5mac.com/2017/05/05/average-app-user-per-day/>
> "Data from App Annie shows that the average smartphone owner spends 2
> hours and 15 minutes a day using apps – the equivalent of one month a
> year. The average person has 60-90 apps installed on their phone, using
> around 30 of them each month and launching 9 per day."

Funny, you just claimed the average person has 33 apps installed.

But again, you do not seem to understand what the meaning of "average"
is. Did you graduate from high school? Did you pass math? It seems not.


--
Mister Teatime had a truly brilliant mind, but it was brilliant like a
fractured mirror, all marvelous facets and rainbows but, ultimately,
also something that was broken. --Hogfather

[Alan Browne]

On 2019-05-13 12:50, Lewis wrote:
> In message <4qidndJS9vvIFkTB...@giganews.com> Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
>> On 2019-05-12 11:48, Lewis wrote:
>>> In message <qb95uv$vdp$1...@dont-email.me> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 5/11/2019 1:17 PM, Lewis wrote:
>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>>> There is no fucking way half a billion iOS users are using Chrome.
>>>>> That's ridiculous.
>>>
>>>> No it's not. More than 2 billion iOS devices have been sold. While
>>>> Chrome may not be the only browser that iOS users are using, most iOS
>>>> users do have a second browser, often Chrome, installed for a couple of
>>>> reasons:
>>>
>>> Most? You're making that up.
>>>
>>> MOST iOS user have NO apps installed.
>
>> Many people install crap like facerip, twattle, and so on as their
>> "social messworks" are so important - that's why they have smartphones
>> in the first place for the most part.
>
> And many do not and use Safari to access those services.
>
>> (Not to mention: iOS comes bundled with a lot of apps, so your "NO apps
>> installed" is a bit off. Well, a lot off).
>
> Oh, fuck off. You know perfectly well installed apps are separate from
> those included in the OS. Thanks for playing, but this stupidity
> disqualifies you from the adult table.

Your anger disqualifies you from pretty much everything. You're
probably a pussy in real life and can vent anonymously on the web where
it's safe for your delicate ego.

>
>> 3.9% of those have Chrome installed and being used regularly (ZDNet,
>> 2016). So 55 M ish. 96% regularly use Safari (same source). That is
>> not to say there are not more that 55M.
>
> WOW! ALMOST 4%! THAT'S AMAZING! BILLIONS!

Not my claim just reporting some simple facts.

I can see your anger management is failing. Again.

[Alan Browne]

On 2019-05-13 11:45, nospam wrote:
> In article <4qidndJS9vvIFkTB...@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
> <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
>
>>>>> There is no fucking way half a billion iOS users are using Chrome.
>>>>> That's ridiculous.
>>>
>>>> No it's not. More than 2 billion iOS devices have been sold. While
>>>> Chrome may not be the only browser that iOS users are using, most iOS
>>>> users do have a second browser, often Chrome, installed for a couple of
>>>> reasons:
>>>
>>> Most? You're making that up.
>>>
>>> MOST iOS user have NO apps installed.
>>
>> Many people install crap like facerip, twattle, and so on as their
>> "social messworks" are so important - that's why they have smartphones
>> in the first place for the most part.
>
> games are the biggest group.

That's apps so counts.

>
>> (Not to mention: iOS comes bundled with a lot of apps, so your "NO apps
>> installed" is a bit off. Well, a lot off).
>
> he obviously means no third party apps.

Of course. But he gets all twisted over any one else's language - he
should get twisted over his own...

>
>> Then people actually install useful stuff like Google Maps, e-mail, etc.
>> and Chrome and much more...
>
> actually not that many.
>
>> As to Chrome, the numbers break:
>>
>> 1.4B active iOS devices. (2019, MacRumours).
>>
>> 3.9% of those have Chrome installed and being used regularly (ZDNet,
>> 2016). So 55 M ish. 96% regularly use Safari (same source). That is
>> not to say there are not more that 55M.
>
> 3.9%, or ~55 million out of 1.4 billion, is lost in the noise.

Wow! You can calculate what was already calculated. That's pretty good.

[nospam]

In article <slrnqdji4i....@Snow.local>, Lewis

<g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

> > Here's one more reference you can use to help educate yourself:
> > <https://9to5mac.com/2017/05/05/average-app-user-per-day/>
> > "Data from App Annie shows that the average smartphone owner spends 2
> > hours and 15 minutes a day using apps ­ the equivalent of one month a
> > year. The average person has 60-90 apps installed on their phone, using
> > around 30 of them each month and launching 9 per day."
>
> Funny, you just claimed the average person has 33 apps installed.

except they're including native apps, artificially inflating the number.

> But again, you do not seem to understand what the meaning of "average"
> is. Did you graduate from high school? Did you pass math? It seems not.

in particular, learn the difference between mean, median and mode.

[sms]

On 5/13/2019 1:33 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2019-05-13 11:45, nospam wrote:

<snip>

>> games are the biggest group.
>

According to Apple themselves, games are NOT the most downloaded apps
(well taken as a group they may be, but none of the top 20 most
downloaded apps are games).

You can see the top 20 most downloaded apps at
<https://mashable.com/article/apple-most-popular-iphone-apps-2018/>.

YouTube
Instagram
Snapchat
Messenger
Facebook
Bitmoji
Netflix
Google Maps
Gmail
Spotify Music
Amazon
Uber
WhatsApp Messenger
Pandora
Wish
TikTok
Cash App
Google Photos

Google Chrome
Twitter

It's also interesting to look at the number of apps installed, versus
the number of apps actually used. For the U.S., there are about 93 apps
average installed, but only about 33 apps that are actually used (see
<https://techcrunch.com/2017/05/04/report-smartphone-owners-are-using-9-apps-per-day-30-per-month/>.

In any case, the point is that the statement that most people have no
apps is completely wrong. The other poster made that up, and now he
feels compelled to double down on that statement--no one would think any
less of him if he simply admitted his mistake.

The estimate of half a billion _users_ of Chrome on iOS may be high,
that probably counts every iOS device on which Chrome was ever
installed, many of which have been replaced by now, and many of which
Chrome is installed but is not the primary browser.

[nospam]

In article <qbcop7$n3$1...@dont-email.me>, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
wrote:

> >> games are the biggest group.
> >
>
> According to Apple themselves, games are NOT the most downloaded apps

yes they are.

<http://www.woweez.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/statistic_id270291_mos
t-popular-apple-app-store-categories-2016.png>

<https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-e5b0a3e4e0f7ff7c1d9335b43942eaae>

> (well taken as a group they may be,

they are, and you're contradicting yourself again.

> but none of the top 20 most
> downloaded apps are games).

your list below are *free* apps, which eliminates a significant number
of games and other apps.

> You can see the top 20 most downloaded apps at
> <https://mashable.com/article/apple-most-popular-iphone-apps-2018/>.
>
> YouTube
> Instagram
> Snapchat
> Messenger
> Facebook
> Bitmoji
> Netflix
> Google Maps
> Gmail
> Spotify Music
> Amazon
> Uber
> WhatsApp Messenger
> Pandora
> Wish
> TikTok
> Cash App
> Google Photos
> Google Chrome
> Twitter

again, those are free apps, not paid apps, therefore not 'the most
downloaded apps'.

> It's also interesting to look at the number of apps installed, versus
> the number of apps actually used.

true. a significant number of apps are used once or twice.

very few apps are retained for ongoing use.

> For the U.S., there are about 93 apps
> average installed, but only about 33 apps that are actually used (see
>
> <https://techcrunch.com/2017/05/04/report-smartphone-owners-are-using-9-apps-p
> er-day-30-per-month/>.

that includes native apps, inflating the numbers.

you also missed this part:
According to a Forrester Research study from 2015, the majority of
usersš time was spent using just five non-native apps theyšve
installed from the App Store. (By non-native, they mean the apps that
didnšt ship with your phone, like Email, Calendar, Messaging, etc

*five* non-native apps.

your own links contradict what you're trying to claim.

> In any case, the point is that the statement that most people have no
> apps is completely wrong. The other poster made that up, and now he
> feels compelled to double down on that statement--no one would think any
> less of him if he simply admitted his mistake.
>
> The estimate of half a billion _users_ of Chrome on iOS may be high,

not may. not only is it quite high but the number is completely
ludicrous.

> that probably counts every iOS device on which Chrome was ever
> installed, many of which have been replaced by now, and many of which
> Chrome is installed but is not the primary browser.

not even that many.

<https://zdnet3.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2016/06/18/4a75df53-a922-492c-9a6
b-a1f5bd7067f1/resize/770xauto/cc8ef8a8bab20222998455f413ec8279/browser-
share-june-2016-ios.jpg>

<https://cdn.searchenginejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/PieChart.
jpg>

you have now dug yourself an even deeper hole, so why don't you take
your own advice:
> ...The other poster made that up, and now he

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Mon, 13 May 2019 14:49:25 -0700, sms wrote:

> The estimate of half a billion _users_ of Chrome on iOS may be high,
> that probably counts every iOS device on which Chrome was ever
> installed, many of which have been replaced by now, and many of which
> Chrome is installed but is not the primary browser.

Hi Steve,

The belief system of the apologists like Lewis is based on mere guesses
o Their credibility is no better than the result of a coin toss

In this case, the coin toss belief system of Lewis was likely right
o I agree with you that the estimate is likely too high at half a billion

An adult builds his belief system based on logical assessment of facts.
o And then, the adult adjusts his belief system to concur with new facts

Given the new facts, I'd say while it's "possible", it's not likely that
Chrome has half a billion active iOS users, where, I'd agree with your
assessment of the facts.

Adults generally agree on facts, where we can disagree logically on
reasonable assessments of those facts, but in this case, I agree with both.

Have fun trying to have an adult discussion with the apologists though
o Their belief systems remain imaginary - even in the face of facts.

Likely, they'll soon call you a troll simply for providing facts.
o They fear facts because facts destroy their imaginary belief system.

While apologists' are very comfortable owning imaginary belief systems
o They're literally afraid of facts & anyone who logically uses them.

Just watch.

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Mon, 13 May 2019 16:31:15 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:

> Not my claim just reporting some simple facts.
>
> I can see your anger management is failing. Again.

Hi Alan Browne,

You have to understand that you're a threat to Lewis' belief system.
o You presented facts - which are a danger to Lewis' imaginary beliefs

The apologists react angrily to facts because facts are a danger
o Imaginary belief systems are _threatened_ by mere facts

Hence, the vehemence exhibited by the apologists is to the facts
o They hate facts - and - particularly - the bearer of facts

Their wholly imaginary belief systems are mere guesses
o Hence, their beliefs are no more accurate than a simple coin toss

It's sad that their entire brain can be _replaced_ by a coin toss
o But that's why I posit you see them react so angrily to facts.

Lewis' brain reacts to facts as if they're literally dangerous
o Hence, he reacts to what you wrote as if you're a danger to him

And, since you bear facts, you are.
o Just watch.

[Lewis]

Aw, poo widdle awan, gets all upset when his ignorance is exposed. Are
you and s-wassisname related? You both seem very fragile.

> I can see your anger management is failing. Again.

Are you clutching your pearls?


--
My biggest problem is that Steve insists on serving PURPLE Kool Aid, an
I don't like PURPLE <sip sip> Kool Aid.

[Lewis]

In message <qbcop7$n3$1...@dont-email.me> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> On 5/13/2019 1:33 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2019-05-13 11:45, nospam wrote:

> <snip>

>>> games are the biggest group.
>>

> According to Apple themselves, games are NOT the most downloaded apps
> (well taken as a group they may be, but none of the top 20 most
> downloaded apps are games).

Again, Math is hard for you. You definitely need remedial coursework.

> You can see the top 20 most downloaded apps at

Irrelevant.

> In any case, the point is that the statement that most people have no
> apps is completely wrong.

Believe what you want, Mr 1+1=54

> The estimate of half a billion _users_ of Chrome on iOS may be high,

No, it's ABSURD, as I said.

> that probably counts every iOS device on which Chrome was ever
> installed,

Not a chance it is a number anywhere near that high. It's absolutely
ridiculous.

--
For a very few, the sky's the limit. And, sometimes, not even that.

[sms]

On 5/13/2019 1:31 PM, Alan Browne wrote:

<snip>

> Your anger disqualifies you from pretty much everything.  You're
> probably a pussy in real life and can vent anonymously on the web where
> it's safe for your delicate ego.

Well on Usenet it's usually the angriest posters that make the most
unsupported claims, no surprise there. But I wonder what his motivation
is for making up these stories. Is he really that upset that so many iOS
users use the Chrome browser that he feels compelled to make these
absurd statements? Bizarre.

[Alan Browne]

Confirming you're a pussy.

>> I can see your anger management is failing. Again.
>
> Are you clutching your pearls?

Oh geez, so manly!

[Savageduck]

On May 13, 2019, sms wrote
(in article <qbcop7$n3$1...@dont-email.me>):

> On 5/13/2019 1:33 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
> > On 2019-05-13 11:45, nospam wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > > games are the biggest group.
>
> According to Apple themselves, games are NOT the most downloaded apps
> (well taken as a group they may be, but none of the top 20 most
> downloaded apps are games).
>
> You can see the top 20 most downloaded apps at
> <https://mashable.com/article/apple-most-popular-iphone-apps-2018/>.
>
> YouTube

Yup! downloaded, installed, & used.
>
> Instagram
> Snapchat

Nope! Not those two.
>
> Messenger

Which Messenger? I only use Apple Messages (iMessage)part of the iOS suite.
>
> Facebook
> Bitmoji

Neither of those made my download approval list.
>
> Netflix
> Google Maps
> Gmail

Those three are on my iOS devices

>
> Spotify Music
> Amazon
> Uber
> WhatsApp Messenger
> Pandora
> Wish
> TikTok
> Cash App
> Google Photos

That is another 9 which didn’t make my download cut.
>
> Google Chrome

This is installed on my iOS devices, and is used occasionally.
>
> Twitter

Nope!

So of that particular list of “top 20 most downloaded apps” 75% have not
been downloaded to any of my iOS devices.

--
Regards,
Savageduck

[nospam]

In article <qbcrgk$gu4$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> > Your anger disqualifies you from pretty much everything.  You're
> > probably a pussy in real life and can vent anonymously on the web where
> > it's safe for your delicate ego.
>
> Well on Usenet it's usually the angriest posters that make the most
> unsupported claims, no surprise there.

actually, it's you who makes the most unsupported claims, and not just
with this.

> But I wonder what his motivation
> is for making up these stories.

he's not making it up, although his numbers are not exactly correct,
unlike you, who is completely wrong.

> Is he really that upset that so many iOS
> users use the Chrome browser that he feels compelled to make these
> absurd statements? Bizarre.

very few do. in reality, almost none.

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Mon, 13 May 2019 17:07:32 -0700, Savageduck wrote:

> Yup! downloaded, installed, & used.

Hi Savageduck,

*Too bad you have _no privacy_ on iOS when using YouTube*
o Plus, you are forced to constantly see in-line advertisements

On Android, you'd have privacy that isn't available on iOS
o And, you'd _never_ even once see any inline advertisements whatsoever!

It's a fact that you just can't get this kind of privacy on iOS:
o https://newpipe.schabi.org/

The fact is, anyone who actually believes that iOS has privacy
o Likely also believes in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, & the Tooth Fairy.

Apple advertises _imaginary privacy_ on iOS
o Where the facts shows that the privacy is "about the same" with Android

Some things, are _much_ more private on Android than on iOS
o Such as Google Maps or Google Youtube or Google Play app downloads

While other things are much more private on iOS

In the end, anyone who says that either one is more private
o Clearly owns an imaginary belief system

It's one more reason why I say that the typical apologist
o Just wants to _feel_ safe - without actually being safe.

And Apple is very happy to MARKETING that _feeling_ of safety
o Without actually providing it, in fact.

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Mon, 13 May 2019 20:20:58 -0400, nospam wrote:

> very few do. in reality, almost none.
>
> <https://zdnet3.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2016/06/18/4a75df53-a922-492c-9a6
> b-a1f5bd7067f1/resize/770xauto/cc8ef8a8bab20222998455f413ec8279/browser-
> share-june-2016-ios.jpg>
>
> <https://cdn.searchenginejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/PieChart.
> jpg>

Hi nospam,

*You do so love to play your silly little and yet clever games, nospam.*
o *Hmmmmm... let's see the _date_ on these graphs, nospam, shall we?*

You're different from most apologists, in that you don't usually turn into
a whining vitriol-filled child like Lewis just did (and which Jolly Roger
is infamous for doing), where you generally try to deflect facts you don't
like with graphs that you, yourself, often show to not comprehend.

Based on the figures I already cited from way back in 2013 after only a
year of Chrome being on iOS, the graph you showed "likely" is showing the
percentage of iOS "web traffic" which, in 2013, was about 4%, and which is
perhaps what your graph is showing?
<https://zdnet3.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2016/06/18/4a75df53-a922-492c-9a6b-a1f5bd7067f1/resize/770xauto/cc8ef8a8bab20222998455f413ec8279/browser-share-june-2016-ios.jpg>

If that graph is showing that the percentage of all iOS web traffic in
2013, only a year after Chrome was introduced on iOS, then that's _still_
likely a _huge_ amount of web traffic, would it be not?

And, the _adult_ question is to ask why you don't show _current_ traffic
o Which can be, for all we know, many times greater now, with Chrome
improvements over Safari on iOS

*Are you trying to play your silly little childish games again, nospam?*

Looking at your second graph, it also doesn't state the date, but shows a
smaller percentage of the total iOS web traffic based on Chrome.
<https://cdn.searchenginejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/PieChart.jpg>

*Hmmmmm... let's see the _date_ on these graphs, nospam, shall we?*

DATE: July 24, 2012 (iPhone 5 era)
o Chrome for iOS Grabs 1.5% Share of iOS Browser Market
<https://www.searchenginejournal.com/chrome-for-ios-grabs-1-5-share-of-ios-browser-market/46502/>

DATE: June 18, 2016
o Which browser is most popular on each major operating system?
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/which-browser-is-most-popular-on-each-major-operating-system/>

So what are the current numbers for web traffic on iOS due to Chrome?
o I don't think anyone knows (least of all the potty-mouthed Lewis)

If we assume the same slope, then we can show that the Chrome percentage of
web traffic went up from 1.5% to 4% in about 4 years, which, very roughly,
puts an extrapolation at about 0.75% each year, which extrapolates to about
6.75% of all iOS web traffic in 2019.

The salient questions to ask are:
1. How much iOS web traffic is there?
And, then...
2. Do you think Chrome owning 6.75% of all current iOS web traffic is a
viable extrapolation?

[Lewis]

I am annoyed at you two dipshits making ridiculous claims that anyone
with two working synapses to rub together on a cold night would discard
as the fantastical ravings of a lunatic mind.

--
"...and Digby considered how much he liked salt..."

[Lewis]

Misogynist asshole.

--
Why can't you be in a good mood? How hard is it to decide to be in a
good mood and be in a good mood once in a while?"

[Alan Browne]

You're illiterate too.

[Alan Browne]

On 2019-05-13 23:24, Lewis wrote:
> In message <qbcrgk$gu4$1...@dont-email.me> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>> On 5/13/2019 1:31 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
>
>> <snip>
>
>>> Your anger disqualifies you from pretty much everything.  You're
>>> probably a pussy in real life and can vent anonymously on the web where
>>> it's safe for your delicate ego.
>
>> Well on Usenet it's usually the angriest posters that make the most
>> unsupported claims, no surprise there. But I wonder what his motivation
>> is for making up these stories. Is he really that upset that so many iOS
>> users use the Chrome browser that he feels compelled to make these
>> absurd statements? Bizarre.
>
> I am annoyed

Look in a high quality mirror and you'll find most of the source of that
annoyance, anger boy.

[Alan Browne]

Completely irrelevant if they are free to DL wrt to the statement that
angry man made. They are downloads period.

And since many of those monetize the user in any case, free is not the
word anyone should use.

[nospam]

In article <w6ydnToiuZW7LkfB...@giganews.com>, Alan Browne

<bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:

> > again, those are free apps, not paid apps, therefore not 'the most
> > downloaded apps'.
>
> Completely irrelevant if they are free to DL wrt to the statement that
> angry man made. They are downloads period.

except that he's ignoring an entire class of apps when claiming what is
the most downloaded.

> And since many of those monetize the user in any case, free is not the
> word anyone should use.

apple classifies it as free. complain to them.

[Jolly Roger]

sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
> so many iOS
> users use the Chrome browser

Bullshit. The overwhelming majority use Safari. An extremely small
percentage (low single digits) use Chrome.

> Bizarre.

Your baseless claim that many iOS users use Google Chrome - of all browsers
- is what is truly bizarre. Most use Safari. And many of us avoid all
privacy-raping Google apps just on principle.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[Arlen G. Holder]

On 14 May 2019 14:44:35 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:

> And many of us avoid all
> privacy-raping Google apps just on principle.

Hi Jolly Roger,

I love when you post because you most clearly exhibit the wholly imaginary
belief system of the typical iOS user.

According to a cite that, I think Steve listed, with stats from Apple...
FACT:
o *YouTube is the number one free app downloaded by iOS users*
FACT:
o *YouTube is clearly, using your own words, "privacy raping".*

*Hence, your claim above is easily DESTOYED instantly, with facts:*
CLAIM: Most iOS users avoid all privacy-raping Google apps on principle
FACT: The privacy-raping iOS YouTube is the most common downloaded free app

Don't you think it terrifying that your entire belief system, Jolly Roger
o Can instantly be DESTROYED by a single simple obvious well-known fact!

The reason is obvious:
o You own the imaginary belief system of a child, Jolly Roger

And yet, you're the epitome of the average iOS user, IMHO
o Who gravitates to the mere ILLUSION of privacy Apple markets so well

Want more facts?
o The free NewPipe YouTube Red clone provides privacy to Android users
o Where that YouTube Red functionality & privacy is not available on iOS

Want even more facts?
o https://schabi.org/

What do you think about the "privacy-raping" Google Maps free app?
o Hint: On Android, you can anonymously use the Google db
o But that kind of privacy simply does not exist on iOS.

In summary, I love when you post, Jolly Roger, because you don't have the
brains to hide the fact that your belief system is completely imaginary.

Your belief system is instantly DESTROYED by simple obvious mere facts.
o You own the imaginary belief systems of a child, Jolly Roger

Which is why I _love_ when you post because you're the epitome of the
average iOS user, so you provide a perfect glimpse into the mind of people
who gravitate to the mere ILLUSION of functionality (privacy in this case).

Apple Marketing is the best in the world
o They have people like you, Jolly Roger, pegged and in their pocket.

Those with adult brains can easily see through the IMAGE of privacy
o Those who own imaginary belief systems cling to the _feeling_ of privacy.

Prove me wrong.
o I'm not afraid of facts.

[nospam]

In article <qbepdl$cgv$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen G. Holder

<arling...@nospam.net> wrote:

> o The free NewPipe YouTube Red clone provides privacy to Android users

not really, certainly nowhere near as much as you seem to think.

> o Where that YouTube Red functionality & privacy is not available on iOS

yes it is.

> What do you think about the "privacy-raping" Google Maps free app?
> o Hint: On Android, you can anonymously use the Google db
> o But that kind of privacy simply does not exist on iOS.

yes it does, and without jumping through hoops.




> Prove me wrong.

already done, countless times.

> o I'm not afraid of facts.

yes you are, which is why you go off on a rant any time anyone provides
facts to you which contradict just about everything you spew.

[Lewis]

In message <w6ydnTsiuZU0L0fB...@giganews.com> Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
> On 2019-05-13 23:24, Lewis wrote:
>> In message <qbcrgk$gu4$1...@dont-email.me> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>> On 5/13/2019 1:31 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
>>
>>> <snip>
>>
>>>> Your anger disqualifies you from pretty much everything.  You're
>>>> probably a pussy in real life and can vent anonymously on the web where
>>>> it's safe for your delicate ego.
>>
>>> Well on Usenet it's usually the angriest posters that make the most
>>> unsupported claims, no surprise there. But I wonder what his motivation
>>> is for making up these stories. Is he really that upset that so many iOS
>>> users use the Chrome browser that he feels compelled to make these
>>> absurd statements? Bizarre.
>>
>> I am annoyed

> Look in a high quality mirror and you'll find most of the source of that
> annoyance, anger boy.

Your stupidity is not in my mirror. And if you think I am angry, you are
even dumber than I thought, child.

--
Strange things are afoot at the Circle K

[B...@onramp.net]

On 14 May 2019 14:44:35 GMT, Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:

>sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>
>> so many iOS
>> users use the Chrome browser
>
>Bullshit. The overwhelming majority use Safari. An extremely small
>percentage (low single digits) use Chrome.
>
>> Bizarre.
>
>Your baseless claim that many iOS users use Google Chrome - of all browsers
>- is what is truly bizarre. Most use Safari. And many of us avoid all
>privacy-raping Google apps just on principle.

Which is pretty hard to do. Best to go to their site and stop as much
spying as possible. Google is without a doubt THE most useful app I
have.

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Tue, 14 May 2019 12:37:57 -0400, nospam wrote:


>> o Where that YouTube Red functionality & privacy is not available on iOS
>
> yes it is.

Hi nospam,

You apologists incessantly brazenly fabricate imaginary iOS functionality.

You fail the simple 3-word test of your imaginary belief system
o Name just one

How do you _subscribe_ to YouTube channels, for example, on iOS without
logging into your Google Account?
o HINT: You can't.

On Android, that kind of YouTube/Google privacy exists (and much more) -
but not on iOS.

Why do you apologists constantly fabricate imaginary iOS functionality?>

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Tue, 14 May 2019 18:00:20 -0500, B...@Onramp.net wrote:

> Which is pretty hard to do. Best to go to their site and stop as much
> spying as possible. Google is without a doubt THE most useful app I
> have.

Google Maps is clearly a best-in-class app, where, on Android, you can
anonymously look up addresses - but not on iOS.
o *iOS just doesn't have that kind of privacy from Google that Android has*

The Google App store is clearly on par with the Apple App store, where you
can anonymously download any app you want off the Google App store without
ever even having a Google login.
o *iOS just doesn't have that kind of privacy from Google that Android has*

Almost every Android app can be "zipped up", after the fact, even system
apps, where you can provide that app (if it's a free app) to anyone you
want any way you want anywhere in the world - where Google doesn't know
_where_ you got the app from or who you are when you're using that app.
o *iOS just doesn't have that kind of privacy from Google that Android has*

The YouTube app is clearly a best-in-class app where, on Android, you can
do _everything_ that the YouTube app does, including subscribing to
channels, history, downloading videos, stripping videos, (all sans any
inline advertisements mind you), etc., all without ever even having a
Google account so Google has no idea of what you're watching & subscribing
to.
o *iOS just doesn't have that kind of privacy from Google that Android has*

On iOS, not only are you _forced_ to have an "Advertiser ID", but you're
also forced to have an iCloud account, and, in addition, you're forced to
have that account associated with all your apps, even free ones. On
Android, none of those privacy leaking situations are forced upon you.
o *iOS just doesn't have that kind of privacy from Google that Android has*

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Wed, 15 May 2019 07:22:58 -0000 (UTC), Arlen G. Holder wrote:

> o *iOS just doesn't have that kind of privacy from Google that Android has*

To be more explicit, iOS users don't have that kind of privacy from either
Apple or from Google, where Android users have that kind of privacy from
Google.

Whenever you hear an iOS user claim iOS is more private...
o Simply ask them where they get their imaginary belief system from.

[Alan Baker]

On 2019-05-15 12:14 a.m., Arlen G. Holder wrote:
> On Tue, 14 May 2019 12:37:57 -0400, nospam wrote:
>
>
>>> o Where that YouTube Red functionality & privacy is not available on iOS
>>
>> yes it is.
>
> Hi nospam,
>
> You apologists incessantly brazenly fabricate imaginary iOS functionality.
>
> You fail the simple 3-word test of your imaginary belief system
> o Name just one
>
> How do you _subscribe_ to YouTube channels, for example, on iOS without
> logging into your Google Account?
> o HINT: You can't.

I create a fake account.

Done.

>
> On Android, that kind of YouTube/Google privacy exists (and much more) -
> but not on iOS.

Not because Google wants it.

[sms]

On 5/14/2019 4:00 PM, B...@Onramp.net wrote:

<snip>

> Which is pretty hard to do. Best to go to their site and stop as much
> spying as possible. Google is without a doubt THE most useful app I
> have.

Since, according to Apple, four out of the top twenty most downloaded
apps from the App Store are from Google
<https://mashable.com/article/apple-most-popular-iphone-apps-2018/>,
obviously most iPhone users find apps from Google, including Chrome,
very useful, even almost indispensable (like Waze).

As you stated. Google's apps are extremely useful. It is a little creepy
to have Google reminding you of various things like when to leave for
the airport, your hotel reservations, etc. which it knows from your
Gmail, but it also turns out to be useful.

Most iOS users I know use both Safari and Chrome. I don't know any
iPhone or iPad users that don't have Chrome installed, but I'm in a very
tech-savvy area of the country. What was extremely amusing was the claim
that most iPhone users have installed no apps at all. Has anyone ever
met someone like that?

I find the biggest advantage of Chrome over Safari to be the one pointed
out in this article
<https://www.knowyourmobile.com/apple/22026/chrome-vs-safari-best-web-browser-iphone>:
"What really sets Chrome apart from Safari is its integration with
Google Now. Any web search you can perform is greeted with a microphone
button above the keyboard. Tap it and simply speak your query. Its hit
rate is almost always 100% accurate. True, Safari does offer a dictation
function in its keyboard, but it’s nowhere near as simple to use or as
accurate as Google Now."

[Lewis]

In message <qbgv8b$vf0$1...@dont-email.me> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> On 5/14/2019 4:00 PM, B...@Onramp.net wrote:

> <snip>

>> Which is pretty hard to do. Best to go to their site and stop as much
>> spying as possible. Google is without a doubt THE most useful app I
>> have.

> Since, according to Apple, four out of the top twenty most downloaded
> apps from the App Store are from Google
> <https://mashable.com/article/apple-most-popular-iphone-apps-2018/>,
> obviously most iPhone users find apps from Google, including Chrome,
> very useful, even almost indispensable (like Waze).

> As you stated. Google's apps are extremely useful. It is a little creepy
> to have Google reminding you of various things like when to leave for
> the airport, your hotel reservations, etc. which it knows from your
> Gmail, but it also turns out to be useful.

> Most iOS users I know use both Safari and Chrome.

Then you know very few iOS users.

> I don't know any iPhone or iPad users that don't have Chrome
> installed,

Again, you know very few iOS users.

> but I'm in a very tech-savvy area of the country. What was extremely
> amusing was the claim that most iPhone users have installed no apps at
> all. Has anyone ever met someone like that?

I can name three people I know well (as in see them at least once a
week) who have never installed an app on their phone. Expand that out to
clients and people I see less frequently and the number is much larger.

> <https://www.knowyourmobile.com/apple/22026/chrome-vs-safari-best-web-browser-iphone>:
> "What really sets Chrome apart from Safari is its integration with
> Google Now. Any web search you can perform is greeted with a microphone
> button above the keyboard. Tap it and simply speak your query. Its hit
> rate is almost always 100% accurate.

Hahahahahah! Its hit rate is maybe 65% or so, no where near 100%. Not
even close.

> True, Safari does offer a dictation function in its keyboard, but it’s
> nowhere near as simple to use or as accurate as Google Now."

Yeah, tapping the google microphone button is WAY easier than tapping
the Apple microphone button. LOL.

--
Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons
exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten.

[nospam]

In article <gk2lfr...@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger

<jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:

>
> > Best to go to their site and stop as much spying as possible. Google
> > is without a doubt THE most useful app I have.
>

> Google isn't an app.

actually, it is, and quite a few of them, actually. not that most of
them are needed, but they do exist.

search
<https://itunes.apple.com/il/app/google/id284815942?mt=8>
assistant
<https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/google-assistant/id1220976145?mt=8>

full list:
<https://itunes.apple.com/us/developer/google-llc/id281956209?mt=8#see-a
ll/i-phonei-pad-apps>

[sms]

On 5/14/2019 5:23 AM, Alan Browne wrote:

<snip>

> Completely irrelevant if they are free to DL wrt to the statement that
> angry man made.  They are downloads period.
>
> And since many of those monetize the user in any case, free is not the
> word anyone should use.
>

They are not free, they are paid for, just not by the user directly.

[sms]

On 5/14/2019 5:20 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2019-05-13 23:24, Lewis wrote:
>> In message <qbcrgk$gu4$1...@dont-email.me> sms
>> <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>> On 5/13/2019 1:31 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
>>
>>> <snip>
>>
>>>> Your anger disqualifies you from pretty much everything.  You're
>>>> probably a pussy in real life and can vent anonymously on the web where
>>>> it's safe for your delicate ego.
>>
>>> Well on Usenet it's usually the angriest posters that make the most
>>> unsupported claims, no surprise there. But I wonder what his motivation
>>> is for making up these stories. Is he really that upset that so many iOS
>>> users use the Chrome browser that he feels compelled to make these
>>> absurd statements? Bizarre.
>>
>> I am annoyed
>
> Look in a high quality mirror and you'll find most of the source of that
> annoyance, anger boy.

Not sure what it is about misc.phone.mobile.iphone that causes people
like Lewis and nospam to generate such a huge volume a unsupported
claims. Obviously if they had any supporting documentation they would
include it in their posts.

Don't they realize how foolish their posts make them appear? It's like
they delight in being wrong about virtually every subject? What's the
upside for them to do this? No one believes anything that they post, so
it's not like they're doing Apple any favors. What is their motivation
to lie?

[nospam]

In article <qbh9k5$1a1$2...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> Not sure what it is about misc.phone.mobile.iphone that causes people
> like Lewis and nospam to generate such a huge volume a unsupported
> claims. Obviously if they had any supporting documentation they would
> include it in their posts.

and they do, which you consistently ignore.

> Don't they realize how foolish their posts make them appear? It's like
> they delight in being wrong about virtually every subject? What's the
> upside for them to do this? No one believes anything that they post, so
> it's not like they're doing Apple any favors. What is their motivation
> to lie?

ask yourself that. just about everything you say is easily proven wrong.

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Wed, 15 May 2019 05:04:26 -0700, sms wrote:

> As you stated. Google's apps are extremely useful. It is a little creepy
> to have Google reminding you of various things like when to leave for
> the airport, your hotel reservations, etc. which it knows from your
> Gmail, but it also turns out to be useful.

Hi Steve,

You bring up an interesting point, where, just as I never see
advertisements on YouTube videos, I have _never_ had anything _remind_ me
of various things, unless I specifically _set_ the reminder in my calendar.

I use a Google mail account, sparingly, but it exists on both iOS & Android
o And I have a calendar (not Google of course) that has events in it

Why do you get reminders from Google - and I never do?
o What's different?

> Most iOS users I know use both Safari and Chrome. I don't know any
> iPhone or iPad users that don't have Chrome installed, but I'm in a very
> tech-savvy area of the country. What was extremely amusing was the claim
> that most iPhone users have installed no apps at all. Has anyone ever
> met someone like that?

Steve ... you should know by now that the belief system of the apologists
o Is purely imaginary.

They just make it up.
o The fact is Lewis couldn't even find a _single_ cite to back up his claim

The credibility of an apologist can be replaced by a simple coin toss.
o It's sad their brain is no more accurate than a simple coin toss.

Luckily, there are only about a score of them on this newsgroup...
o Alan Baker <nu...@ness.biz>
o Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com>
o Andreas Rutishauser <and...@macandreas.ch>
o Beedle <Bee...@dont-email.me>
o B...@Onramp.net
o Chris <ithi...@gmail.com>
o Davoud <st...@sky.net>
o Elden <use...@moondog.org>
o *Hemidactylus* <ecph...@allspamis.invalid>
o joe <no...@domain.invalid>
o Joerg Lorenz <hugy...@gmx.ch>
o Johan <JH...@nospam.invalid>
o Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com>
o Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
o nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid>
o Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>
o Snit <use...@gallopinginsanity.com> (aka Michael Glasser)
o Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net>
o Wade Garrett <wa...@cooler.net>
o Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com>
o et al.

> Safari does offer a dictation
> function in its keyboard, but it¢s nowhere near as simple to use or as
> accurate as Google Now."

Steve ... talking actual functionality is useless with apologists.
o Apologists' brains gravitate to the mere _illusion_ of functionality.

Why?
o I don't know why.

I suspect apologists gravitate to Apple marketing messages
o For the same reason children believe closing closet doors keeps monsters away.

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Wed, 15 May 2019 01:03:05 -0700, Alan Baker wrote:

> I create a fake account.
> Done.

Hi Alan Baker,

Do you even realize what you just said?
o How do you create that "fake account", for example?

>> On Android, that kind of YouTube/Google privacy exists (and much more) -
>> but not on iOS.
>
> Not because Google wants it.

*The fact is that privacy doesn't exist on iOS.*
o Apple markets the mere _illusion_ of privacy.

And you Apple users apparently eat it up ...

Why?
o I don't know why.

I think it's because you desperately want to _feel_ safe.
o Without actually being safe.

[Alan Baker]

On 2019-05-15 8:22 a.m., Arlen G. Holder wrote:
> On Wed, 15 May 2019 01:03:05 -0700, Alan Baker wrote:
>
>> I create a fake account.
>> Done.
>
> Hi Alan Baker,
>
> Do you even realize what you just said?
> o How do you create that "fake account", for example?

Just create a Google account with no correct details that you use solely
for YouTube.

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Wed, 15 May 2019 09:18:50 -0700, Alan Baker wrote:

> Just create a Google account

:)

[Alan Baker]

Yup. Create an account that uses no real details...

...like this one:

arlen.ho...@gmail.com

That account has no personal information about me.