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Apple's delay may indicate QA found long-standing super-serious facetime flaws
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arlen holder
Feb 3, 2019, 1:59:26 PM2/3/19
to
This post is based on facts - and provides a "rational" guess as to what is
currently happening in Cupertino at this very moment in time...
Given that the head of software engineering has already told us:
o To Apple, schedule is far more important than functionality or quality
The question is _why_ did Apple, this time, defer the schedule?
I suspect Apple's delay indicates they found long-standing super-serious
facetime flaws ... or that Apple wants to test (for the first time)
sufficiently _before_ releasing the diarrhea of iOS updates to the users!
Both of these would be "a good thing", and a "change for Apple".
Did Apple _find_ more egregious bugs when/if they tested facetime?
o Maybe they did...
o Maybe they did not.
But why the delay?
o Apple Delays FaceTime Update After Eavesdropping Bug Fiasco
o Apple will reportedly issue the software update next week
<https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/apple-facetime-bug-update_us_5c556814e4b09293b20472b9>
Why not simply implement the exact code _before_ the bug was introduced?
o Maybe it wouldn't have the promised functionality
o Or, maybe ... just maybe ... Apple _finally_ (for the 1st time) tested it!
Nobody is whispering in my ear of either of these two things:
1. Apple actually finally _tested_ facetime sufficiently (for once!), or
2. Apple did found _more_ bugs (perhaps far worse) in that testing.
More than likely, Apple _did_ run "additional tests" which would almost
certainly mean Apple did find additional bugs (IMHO), since it's clear
Apple never sufficiently tested Facetime in the first place.
Or, just as likely, Management gives a shit (only) about their IMAGE ... so
Management may have asked Apple to actually _test_ the release sufficiently
so that Apple wouldn't yet again, for the umpteenth time in just a few
years, have egg on their face because they never test anything sufficiently
in the real world.
As Craig Federighi said about a year ago in that leaked memo,
to actually _test_ their software takes more time than marketing actually
provides them.
It's abundantly clear fact that Craig was saying
o Schedule has always been far more important than quality (to Apple).
Hence, it's something reasonable rational adults could wonder about...
o Why, all of a sudden, would quality suddenly trump schedule (to Apple)?
currently happening in Cupertino at this very moment in time...
Given that the head of software engineering has already told us:
o To Apple, schedule is far more important than functionality or quality
The question is _why_ did Apple, this time, defer the schedule?
I suspect Apple's delay indicates they found long-standing super-serious
facetime flaws ... or that Apple wants to test (for the first time)
sufficiently _before_ releasing the diarrhea of iOS updates to the users!
Both of these would be "a good thing", and a "change for Apple".
Did Apple _find_ more egregious bugs when/if they tested facetime?
o Maybe they did...
o Maybe they did not.
But why the delay?
o Apple Delays FaceTime Update After Eavesdropping Bug Fiasco
o Apple will reportedly issue the software update next week
<https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/apple-facetime-bug-update_us_5c556814e4b09293b20472b9>
Why not simply implement the exact code _before_ the bug was introduced?
o Maybe it wouldn't have the promised functionality
o Or, maybe ... just maybe ... Apple _finally_ (for the 1st time) tested it!
Nobody is whispering in my ear of either of these two things:
1. Apple actually finally _tested_ facetime sufficiently (for once!), or
2. Apple did found _more_ bugs (perhaps far worse) in that testing.
More than likely, Apple _did_ run "additional tests" which would almost
certainly mean Apple did find additional bugs (IMHO), since it's clear
Apple never sufficiently tested Facetime in the first place.
Or, just as likely, Management gives a shit (only) about their IMAGE ... so
Management may have asked Apple to actually _test_ the release sufficiently
so that Apple wouldn't yet again, for the umpteenth time in just a few
years, have egg on their face because they never test anything sufficiently
in the real world.
As Craig Federighi said about a year ago in that leaked memo,
to actually _test_ their software takes more time than marketing actually
provides them.
It's abundantly clear fact that Craig was saying
o Schedule has always been far more important than quality (to Apple).
Hence, it's something reasonable rational adults could wonder about...
o Why, all of a sudden, would quality suddenly trump schedule (to Apple)?
arlen holder
Feb 3, 2019, 11:06:55 PM2/3/19
to
On Sun, 3 Feb 2019 15:35:34 -0800, Alan Baker wrote:
> Based on your track record for "facts", I doubt that this one is any better.
Hi Alan Baker,
Here is a _simple_ question for you, which you should know the answer
of _before_ you even _begin_ to attempt to refute my facts.
QUESTION FOR THE INTELLIGENT:
Q: What _did_ Craig Federighi say in that infamous email?
o MacWorld: Apple needs to stop promising new products and start delivering them
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/WYjTtnTs-XQ/YyhGkrNXAAAJ>
HINT: If you don't even know what he said (which I reported on at the time),
then how on earth can you even _begin_ to refute that he said it?
> You're suggesting with a straight face that Apple doesn't test its code?
Ummmm... I said Apple doesn't *sufficiently* test their software.
o The proof is that a mere child can find egregious bugs (& did).
Further proof has been stated _many_ times, e.g.,
o Apple Was Slow to Act on FaceTime Bug That Allows Spying on iPhones
<https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/29/technology/facetime-glitch-apple.html>
o Apple Macs Have Yet Another Password-Bypassing Bug
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.sys.mac.system/4rM5ZPCgThI/X8HEf0BvCAAJ>
o Lockscreen exploit easilfy found only hours after iOS 12.1 released
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/N-hQKPDI4a0/4tfgLojLAAAJ>
o icloud privacy breach
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/eZjiSd1HneE>
o Apple openly admits they didn't sufficiently test iOS in the real world!
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/K8uOvBjJ2rY/2htXivAfAwAJ>
o Yet another massive security hole has been found in iOS 11
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/xGV0X_Qfqc4/VqqWWwMXBAAJ>
o Yet another shoddy example of Apple rushing to fix a critical issue
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.sys.mac.system/mqTrBBlvGCU/jrJWtF8DBAAJ>
o Apple breaks connectivity to Linux stating the real world is just "not supported"
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/_e0czhOYSHo/WuyowzN73IsJ>
o Every time iOS updates, Apple causes new problems in the REAL world...
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/Z6xD4HaiyjE/Jr5yYrBUCAAJ>
o Yet again, Apple forgot to test iOS 11.2.6 in the real world
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/AlkmHCTSUXg/K5GdwrzdCQAJ>
o iOS 12.1 Beta Includes Fix for iOS 12 iPhone and iPad Charging Issue
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/pdlKvBUmrj0/8jnSieURAwAJ>
o Forbes reports that Apple finally confirmed the new iPhones have a serious design flaw
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/fyXNjaNgS50/fjZt5KTtAgAJ>
etc.
> Please.
Clearly, it's obvious to any sentient logical adult that the proof is rampant
o Apple does not sufficiently test their releases in the real world
As just one of very many examples...
o Lockscreen exploit easilfy found only hours after iOS 12.1 released
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/N-hQKPDI4a0/4tfgLojLAAAJ>
And another...
> So you've already retreated from your earlier position
> that Apple doesn't test at all...
You're an idiot, Alan Baker.
o All you _can_ do, is play silly games.
I've been _proving_ for years Apple doesn't sufficiently test software releases.
o Who the heck do you think _reported_ most of those egregious bugs, Alan Baker?
The tooth fairy?
o Just because you can't comprehend the _simplest_ of things, Alan Baker,
o Doesn't mean that the facts aren't as clear as day that...
For Apple, schedule is far more important than quality.
o The proof is clearly in the taste of the pudding.
HINT: Alan Baker, lest you play silly word games, what that means is that
mere fact that in almost every release something egregious is found that a
child could find, is _proof_ that Apple doesn't sufficiently test releases.
If you read the articles quoted above, you'll find this is a _common_
complaint that Apple does not sufficiently test releases.
o Is Apple seriously suggesting that millions of unsuspecting customers - now become - beta testers - just so that their phones will work!
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/xrovVjnWUo4/mWmtp7EYAwAJ>
It's not just me who has the brains to see this is a fact.
o It's just you Apologists who don't have those brains.
> Quote and cite or it never happened.
> Your assertions aren't trustworthy.
All you do, Alan Baker, is _prove_ you're an idiot.
Google Craig Federhigi email for Christs' sake _before_ you say it didn't
happen.
What's childish about you, Alan Baker, is you deny flatly facts,
but you prove you _never_ even read what Craig said _before_ you deny them.
I ask you Alan Baker, do you realize those are the actions of a child?
o MacWorld: Apple needs to stop promising new products and start delivering them
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/WYjTtnTs-XQ/YyhGkrNXAAAJ>
> Based on your track record for "facts", I doubt that this one is any better.
Hi Alan Baker,
Here is a _simple_ question for you, which you should know the answer
of _before_ you even _begin_ to attempt to refute my facts.
QUESTION FOR THE INTELLIGENT:
Q: What _did_ Craig Federighi say in that infamous email?
o MacWorld: Apple needs to stop promising new products and start delivering them
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/WYjTtnTs-XQ/YyhGkrNXAAAJ>
HINT: If you don't even know what he said (which I reported on at the time),
then how on earth can you even _begin_ to refute that he said it?
> You're suggesting with a straight face that Apple doesn't test its code?
Ummmm... I said Apple doesn't *sufficiently* test their software.
o The proof is that a mere child can find egregious bugs (& did).
Further proof has been stated _many_ times, e.g.,
o Apple Was Slow to Act on FaceTime Bug That Allows Spying on iPhones
<https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/29/technology/facetime-glitch-apple.html>
o Apple Macs Have Yet Another Password-Bypassing Bug
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.sys.mac.system/4rM5ZPCgThI/X8HEf0BvCAAJ>
o Lockscreen exploit easilfy found only hours after iOS 12.1 released
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/N-hQKPDI4a0/4tfgLojLAAAJ>
o icloud privacy breach
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/eZjiSd1HneE>
o Apple openly admits they didn't sufficiently test iOS in the real world!
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/K8uOvBjJ2rY/2htXivAfAwAJ>
o Yet another massive security hole has been found in iOS 11
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/xGV0X_Qfqc4/VqqWWwMXBAAJ>
o Yet another shoddy example of Apple rushing to fix a critical issue
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.sys.mac.system/mqTrBBlvGCU/jrJWtF8DBAAJ>
o Apple breaks connectivity to Linux stating the real world is just "not supported"
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/_e0czhOYSHo/WuyowzN73IsJ>
o Every time iOS updates, Apple causes new problems in the REAL world...
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/Z6xD4HaiyjE/Jr5yYrBUCAAJ>
o Yet again, Apple forgot to test iOS 11.2.6 in the real world
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/AlkmHCTSUXg/K5GdwrzdCQAJ>
o iOS 12.1 Beta Includes Fix for iOS 12 iPhone and iPad Charging Issue
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/pdlKvBUmrj0/8jnSieURAwAJ>
o Forbes reports that Apple finally confirmed the new iPhones have a serious design flaw
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/fyXNjaNgS50/fjZt5KTtAgAJ>
etc.
> Please.
Clearly, it's obvious to any sentient logical adult that the proof is rampant
o Apple does not sufficiently test their releases in the real world
As just one of very many examples...
o Lockscreen exploit easilfy found only hours after iOS 12.1 released
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/N-hQKPDI4a0/4tfgLojLAAAJ>
And another...
> So you've already retreated from your earlier position
> that Apple doesn't test at all...
You're an idiot, Alan Baker.
o All you _can_ do, is play silly games.
I've been _proving_ for years Apple doesn't sufficiently test software releases.
o Who the heck do you think _reported_ most of those egregious bugs, Alan Baker?
The tooth fairy?
o Just because you can't comprehend the _simplest_ of things, Alan Baker,
o Doesn't mean that the facts aren't as clear as day that...
For Apple, schedule is far more important than quality.
o The proof is clearly in the taste of the pudding.
HINT: Alan Baker, lest you play silly word games, what that means is that
mere fact that in almost every release something egregious is found that a
child could find, is _proof_ that Apple doesn't sufficiently test releases.
If you read the articles quoted above, you'll find this is a _common_
complaint that Apple does not sufficiently test releases.
o Is Apple seriously suggesting that millions of unsuspecting customers - now become - beta testers - just so that their phones will work!
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/xrovVjnWUo4/mWmtp7EYAwAJ>
It's not just me who has the brains to see this is a fact.
o It's just you Apologists who don't have those brains.
> Quote and cite or it never happened.
> Your assertions aren't trustworthy.
All you do, Alan Baker, is _prove_ you're an idiot.
Google Craig Federhigi email for Christs' sake _before_ you say it didn't
happen.
What's childish about you, Alan Baker, is you deny flatly facts,
but you prove you _never_ even read what Craig said _before_ you deny them.
I ask you Alan Baker, do you realize those are the actions of a child?
o MacWorld: Apple needs to stop promising new products and start delivering them
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/WYjTtnTs-XQ/YyhGkrNXAAAJ>
John McWilliams
Feb 4, 2019, 6:01:42 PM2/4/19
to
arlen holder
Feb 6, 2019, 10:03:17 AM2/6/19
to
On Mon, 4 Feb 2019 16:30:34 -0800, Alan Baker wrote:
> Since you haven't presented what he said IN THIS THREAD RIGHT NOW...
> ...I logically conclude that you don't actually have the goods.
Jesus Christ, Alan Baker,
Nobody is as stupid as what you just wrote proves you are.
o I think you actually _believe_ what you just wrote.
Let me let you in on a secret, Alan Baker.
o I've written scientific articles, but even if I hadn't, I know how they are written.
They happen to have these "things", called "references".
o Yea, I know. Silly them. They reference stuff. Stupid scientists.
You, sadly, don't have any comprehension of things called "references".
o You flatly refute _everything_, out of hand
o Without even _clicking_ on the reference
o Hence, without even _reading_ the reference
In your strange dunning-kruger lemon-juice mind
o If the fact isn't literally presented outright in the post, it's false.
Alan Baker,
This is a sincere request for you to please stop proving that your mind is
that of a mere child; specifically, your mind is lemon-juice Dunning Kruger
to the core.
It's sad that people like you exist, Alan Baker.
Very sad.
Please _think_ about what I said above, although, I fear...
o It's like telling the lemon-juice bank robber about chemistry
o It's like telling Joerg Lorenz about mainstream media
o It's like telling you, Alan Baker, that your brain is that of a child.
The sad fact is, Alan Baker, we're not even close in the same league.
It's just sad, for humanity, Alan Baker, that people like you actually exist.
Hence, to save everyone else the same sad pain that I feel every time I
read your posts, this is my last post to you, Alan Baker, in this thread.
> Since you haven't presented what he said IN THIS THREAD RIGHT NOW...
> ...I logically conclude that you don't actually have the goods.
Jesus Christ, Alan Baker,
Nobody is as stupid as what you just wrote proves you are.
o I think you actually _believe_ what you just wrote.
Let me let you in on a secret, Alan Baker.
o I've written scientific articles, but even if I hadn't, I know how they are written.
They happen to have these "things", called "references".
o Yea, I know. Silly them. They reference stuff. Stupid scientists.
You, sadly, don't have any comprehension of things called "references".
o You flatly refute _everything_, out of hand
o Without even _clicking_ on the reference
o Hence, without even _reading_ the reference
In your strange dunning-kruger lemon-juice mind
o If the fact isn't literally presented outright in the post, it's false.
Alan Baker,
This is a sincere request for you to please stop proving that your mind is
that of a mere child; specifically, your mind is lemon-juice Dunning Kruger
to the core.
It's sad that people like you exist, Alan Baker.
Very sad.
Please _think_ about what I said above, although, I fear...
o It's like telling the lemon-juice bank robber about chemistry
o It's like telling Joerg Lorenz about mainstream media
o It's like telling you, Alan Baker, that your brain is that of a child.
The sad fact is, Alan Baker, we're not even close in the same league.
It's just sad, for humanity, Alan Baker, that people like you actually exist.
Hence, to save everyone else the same sad pain that I feel every time I
read your posts, this is my last post to you, Alan Baker, in this thread.
arlen holder
Feb 7, 2019, 10:31:48 PM2/7/19
to
Facts
o iOS 12.1.4 Now Available With Group FaceTime Bug Fix
<https://www.macrumors.com/2019/02/07/ios-12-1-4-group-facetime-fix-now-available/>
"Apple today released a new iOS 12.1.4 update for the iPhone, iPad,
and iPod touch, with the new software designed to fix an insidious
privacy-invading Group FaceTime bug that could be exploited to
eavesdrop on conversations. "
Proving what we've been saying for years...
"The FaceTime bug allowed someone to spy on you without
your permission or knowledge"
There's zero evidence Apple gave a shit until _after_ the shit hit the fan:
"It was a serious bug, so serious that Apple took its entire
Group FaceTime server offline as the company took the time to
prepare the iOS 12.1.4 update. The Group FaceTime bug was
publicized last Monday and Group FaceTime has been offline
since then."
If it was just the first, second, third, forth, fifth, etc., similar Apple
issue in the recent past, it wouldn't be all that big of a deal, but it's a
chronic proof that Apple never sufficiently tests its software.
The user just wants frequent releases.
o And that's what they get
I call it a veritable "diarrhea" of releases.
o For some strange reason, that release diarrhea makes users _feel_ safe.
And that! Is all that matters to Marketing (who clearly schedules this
diarrhea of releases for marketing purposes, as shown in the leaked
Federighi email of about a year ago).
"The Group FaceTime bug may have required some major
under-the-hood changes to FaceTime given that it took Apple
nearly two weeks to fix the issue. Following today's update,
the Group FaceTime bug will no longer be able to be exploited
and Apple will be able to bring its Group FaceTime server back
online.
It continues to be unclear just how long the Group FaceTime bug
was available for. Group FaceTime was introduced last October,
and Apple has not let us know if the bug has been around since
that launch date or if it was introduced in a later iOS 12 update."
Facts.
o iOS 12.1.4 Now Available With Group FaceTime Bug Fix
<https://www.macrumors.com/2019/02/07/ios-12-1-4-group-facetime-fix-now-available/>
"Apple today released a new iOS 12.1.4 update for the iPhone, iPad,
and iPod touch, with the new software designed to fix an insidious
privacy-invading Group FaceTime bug that could be exploited to
eavesdrop on conversations. "
Proving what we've been saying for years...
"The FaceTime bug allowed someone to spy on you without
your permission or knowledge"
There's zero evidence Apple gave a shit until _after_ the shit hit the fan:
"It was a serious bug, so serious that Apple took its entire
Group FaceTime server offline as the company took the time to
prepare the iOS 12.1.4 update. The Group FaceTime bug was
publicized last Monday and Group FaceTime has been offline
since then."
If it was just the first, second, third, forth, fifth, etc., similar Apple
issue in the recent past, it wouldn't be all that big of a deal, but it's a
chronic proof that Apple never sufficiently tests its software.
The user just wants frequent releases.
o And that's what they get
I call it a veritable "diarrhea" of releases.
o For some strange reason, that release diarrhea makes users _feel_ safe.
And that! Is all that matters to Marketing (who clearly schedules this
diarrhea of releases for marketing purposes, as shown in the leaked
Federighi email of about a year ago).
"The Group FaceTime bug may have required some major
under-the-hood changes to FaceTime given that it took Apple
nearly two weeks to fix the issue. Following today's update,
the Group FaceTime bug will no longer be able to be exploited
and Apple will be able to bring its Group FaceTime server back
online.
It continues to be unclear just how long the Group FaceTime bug
was available for. Group FaceTime was introduced last October,
and Apple has not let us know if the bug has been around since
that launch date or if it was introduced in a later iOS 12 update."
Facts.
Alan Baker
Feb 8, 2019, 2:12:09 AM2/8/19
to
On 2019-02-07 7:31 p.m., arlen holder wrote:
> Facts
>
> o iOS 12.1.4 Now Available With Group FaceTime Bug Fix
> <https://www.macrumors.com/2019/02/07/ios-12-1-4-group-facetime-fix-now-available/>
> "Apple today released a new iOS 12.1.4 update for the iPhone, iPad,
> and iPod touch, with the new software designed to fix an insidious
> privacy-invading Group FaceTime bug that could be exploited to
> eavesdrop on conversations. "
That at least appears to be a fact.
> Facts
>
> o iOS 12.1.4 Now Available With Group FaceTime Bug Fix
> <https://www.macrumors.com/2019/02/07/ios-12-1-4-group-facetime-fix-now-available/>
> "Apple today released a new iOS 12.1.4 update for the iPhone, iPad,
> and iPod touch, with the new software designed to fix an insidious
> privacy-invading Group FaceTime bug that could be exploited to
> eavesdrop on conversations. "
>
> Proving what we've been saying for years...
> "The FaceTime bug allowed someone to spy on you without
> your permission or knowledge"
that?
>
> There's zero evidence Apple gave a shit until _after_ the shit hit the fan:
> "It was a serious bug, so serious that Apple took its entire
> Group FaceTime server offline as the company took the time to
> prepare the iOS 12.1.4 update. The Group FaceTime bug was
> publicized last Monday and Group FaceTime has been offline
> since then."
What proof have you got that they didn't give a shit?
>
> If it was just the first, second, third, forth, fifth, etc., similar Apple
> issue in the recent past, it wouldn't be all that big of a deal, but it's a
> chronic proof that Apple never sufficiently tests its software.
>
> The user just wants frequent releases.
> o And that's what they get
>
> I call it a veritable "diarrhea" of releases.
> o For some strange reason, that release diarrhea makes users _feel_ safe.
diarrhea".
>
> And that! Is all that matters to Marketing (who clearly schedules this
> diarrhea of releases for marketing purposes, as shown in the leaked
> Federighi email of about a year ago).
>
> "The Group FaceTime bug may have required some major
> under-the-hood changes to FaceTime given that it took Apple
> nearly two weeks to fix the issue. Following today's update,
> the Group FaceTime bug will no longer be able to be exploited
> and Apple will be able to bring its Group FaceTime server back
> online.
> It continues to be unclear just how long the Group FaceTime bug
> was available for. Group FaceTime was introduced last October,
> and Apple has not let us know if the bug has been around since
> that launch date or if it was introduced in a later iOS 12 update."
>
> Facts.
arlen holder
Feb 8, 2019, 1:32:03 PM2/8/19
to
On Thu, 7 Feb 2019 23:12:07 -0800, Alan Baker wrote:
> That would seem like they very much gave a shit.
> What proof have you got that they didn't give a shit?
*FACTS + LOGIC:*
> That would seem like they very much gave a shit.
> What proof have you got that they didn't give a shit?
o Apple Was Slow to Act on FaceTime Bug That Allows Spying on iPhones
<https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/29/technology/facetime-glitch-apple.html>
o On Jan. 19, Grant Thompson ... made an unexpected discovery
o His mother ... sent a video of the hack to Apple the next day
o But it wasn┤ until Monday, more than a week after Ms. Thompson
first notified Apple of the problem, that Apple raced to disable
Group FaceTime and said it was working on a fix
o The company reacted after a separate developer reported the
FaceTime flaw and it was written about on 9to5mac.com,
a news site for Apple fans, in an article that went viral.
This quote, _is_ the problem, even as you, Alan Baker, don't comprehend it:
"The bug, and Apple's slow response to patching it, have renewed
concerns about the company┬ commitment to security, even though it
regularly advertises its bug reward program and boasts about the
safety of its products"
*LOGIC:*
Everyone knows this, but you, Alan Baker:
o *Apple cares very much about IMAGE!*
o Not so much about bugs (the proof is clearly in the taste of the pudding).
*FACTS:*
o Lockscreen exploit easilfy found only hours after iOS 12.1 released
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/N-hQKPDI4a0/4tfgLojLAAAJ>
o Apple Macs Have Yet Another Password-Bypassing Bug
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.sys.mac.system/4rM5ZPCgThI/X8HEf0BvCAAJ>
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/xGV0X_Qfqc4/VqqWWwMXBAAJ>
o icloud privacy breach
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/eZjiSd1HneE>
o MacWorld: Apple needs to stop promising new products and start delivering them
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/WYjTtnTs-XQ/YyhGkrNXAAAJ>
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/WYjTtnTs-XQ/YyhGkrNXAAAJ>
o Yet again, Apple forgot to test iOS 11.2.6 in the real world
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/AlkmHCTSUXg/K5GdwrzdCQAJ>
o Yet more proof Apple doesn't test software sufficiently (this time not only from Facebook but also from Expedia, Hollister and Hotels.com)
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/AlkmHCTSUXg/K5GdwrzdCQAJ>
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/8HfdPOQVNVk>
o Yet another shoddy example of Apple rushing to fix a critical issue
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.sys.mac.system/mqTrBBlvGCU/jrJWtF8DBAAJ>
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/K8uOvBjJ2rY/2htXivAfAwAJ>
o Apple Was Slow to Act on FaceTime Bug That Allows Spying on iPhones
<https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/29/technology/facetime-glitch-apple.html>
o iOS 12.1 Beta Includes Fix for iOS 12 iPhone and iPad Charging Issue
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/pdlKvBUmrj0/8jnSieURAwAJ>
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/pdlKvBUmrj0/8jnSieURAwAJ>
o Is Apple seriously suggesting that millions of unsuspecting customers - now become - beta testers - just so that their phones will work!
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/xrovVjnWUo4/mWmtp7EYAwAJ>
o How to work around the new Apple iOS7 infinite loop of mistrust bug on Linux?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/xrovVjnWUo4/mWmtp7EYAwAJ>
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/_e0czhOYSHo/WuyowzN73IsJ>
o Every time iOS updates, Apple causes new problems in the REAL world...
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/Z6xD4HaiyjE/Jr5yYrBUCAAJ>
etc
o Every time iOS updates, Apple causes new problems in the REAL world...
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/Z6xD4HaiyjE/Jr5yYrBUCAAJ>
*LOGIC:*
Everyone knows this, but you, Alan Baker:
o *Apple cares very much about IMAGE!*
o Not so much about bugs (the proof is clearly in the taste of the pudding).
Alan Baker
Feb 8, 2019, 2:33:24 PM2/8/19
to
On 2019-02-08 10:32 a.m., arlen holder wrote:
> On Thu, 7 Feb 2019 23:12:07 -0800, Alan Baker wrote:
>
>> That would seem like they very much gave a shit.
>> What proof have you got that they didn't give a shit?
>
> *FACTS + LOGIC:*
>
> o Apple Was Slow to Act on FaceTime Bug That Allows Spying on iPhones
> <https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/29/technology/facetime-glitch-apple.html>
Except we know they got it wrong.
> On Thu, 7 Feb 2019 23:12:07 -0800, Alan Baker wrote:
>
>> That would seem like they very much gave a shit.
>> What proof have you got that they didn't give a shit?
>
> *FACTS + LOGIC:*
>
> o Apple Was Slow to Act on FaceTime Bug That Allows Spying on iPhones
> <https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/29/technology/facetime-glitch-apple.html>
>
> Timeline:
> o On Jan. 19, Grant Thompson ... made an unexpected discovery
> o His mother ... sent a video of the hack to Apple the next day
January 25.
> o But it wasn¢t until Monday, more than a week after Ms. Thompson
> first notified Apple of the problem, that Apple raced to disable
> Group FaceTime and said it was working on a fix
Monday being the 28th of January, so three days with two of them being
> Group FaceTime and said it was working on a fix
the weekend.
> o The company reacted after a separate developer reported the
> FaceTime flaw and it was written about on 9to5mac.com,
> a news site for Apple fans, in an article that went viral.
>
> This quote, _is_ the problem, even as you, Alan Baker, don't comprehend it:
> "The bug, and Apple's slow response to patching it, have renewed
> regularly advertises its bug reward program and boasts about the
> safety of its products"
I don't know what the source of that quote is.
> safety of its products"
The rest of your stuff wasn't relevant to this conversation.
arlen holder
Feb 8, 2019, 9:05:48 PM2/8/19
to
On Fri, 8 Feb 2019 11:33:22 -0800, Alan Baker wrote:
> Except we know they got it wrong.
Does it ever occur to you, Alan Baker, that maybe, just maybe, you and
> Except we know they got it wrong.
Joerg Lorenz don't vet the news as well as you _think_ you do?
Alan Baker
Feb 8, 2019, 9:25:10 PM2/8/19
to
I provided you cites from a person who:
1. Videoed the mother's video on YouTube showing an upload date of
January 23.
2. Posted the email she'd sent and stated it was sent on January 25.
Must I do so YET AGAIN?
arlen holder
Feb 8, 2019, 10:13:24 PM2/8/19
to
On Fri, 8 Feb 2019 18:25:09 -0800, Alan Baker wrote:
> Must I do so YET AGAIN?
Hi Alan Baker,
> Must I do so YET AGAIN?
In deference to badgolferman, I'm going to assume you are an adult.
Hi Alan Baker,
We do seem to have a dilemma.
Multiple news agencies said Apple "sat" on the bug, while you feel they
didn't.
OK.
That's a discrepancy, which is want to happen when people apologize for the
behavior of others. I realize the well-known propensity of the apologists
to apologize for Apple' s behavior, so I would expect nothing less from
you.
You may not know this, Alan Baker, but I worked in software for decades,
where we _never_ had a "video" of a bug in those days - and we did just
fine with simple word-of-mouth (via phone calls, or email) reports of bugs.
Particularly bugs that are easy to describe and reproduce.
Bearing in mind this fact that a "video" is not the only way to "inform
Apple" of an egregious and yet trivially simple bug to both describe &
reproduce (since it's not even intermittent for Christs' sake!) ...
Let me ask you an ADULT question, Alan Baker, in deference to the
suggestion by badgolferman to treat you as an adult.
Adult question for Alan Baker:
Q: *When do you, Alan Baker, consider Apple to have been _informed_ of the bug?*
Lewis
Feb 8, 2019, 11:35:25 PM2/8/19
to
In message <q3ldm2$1d5f$1...@gioia.aioe.org> Alan Baker <nu...@ness.biz> wrote:
> I provided you cites from a person who:
> 1. Videoed the mother's video on YouTube showing an upload date of
> January 23.
> 2. Posted the email she'd sent and stated it was sent on January 25.
> Must I do so YET AGAIN?
Stupid and Crazy are both immune to facts.
> I provided you cites from a person who:
> 1. Videoed the mother's video on YouTube showing an upload date of
> January 23.
> 2. Posted the email she'd sent and stated it was sent on January 25.
> Must I do so YET AGAIN?
--
"Reality continues to ruin my life."
arlen holder
Feb 8, 2019, 11:48:43 PM2/8/19
to
UPDATE:
I was wholly correct in predicting the _reason_ for Apple's delay.
It's very likely the _first_ time FaceTime was _ever_ tested, since Apple
has stated they _found_ more bugs and Apple _refused_ requests to state
_when_ those bugs were introduced, leaving the option that they were
_always_ there, since it's arguably proven already Apple never tested
FaceTime sufficiently.
Here's an update I just gave to Alan Baker which contains the facts.
In deference to badgolferman, I assume the reader below is an adult.
On Fri, 8 Feb 2019 16:13:48 -0800, Alan Baker wrote:
> I presented the evidence that you were completely wrong about that
> mother posting a video of the Facetime bug and reporting it to Apple
> "the next day" after her son found it (i.e. on January 20).
The subject of this thread is that Apple clearly doesn't test sufficiently.
o Apple rolls out fix for FaceTime eavesdropping bug
<https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/07/tech/apple-facetime-bug-fix/index.html>
"The software updates -- iOS 12.1.4 and macOS Mojave 10.14.3 --
were rolled out to iPhones, iPads and Mac computers on Thursday,
_nine days_ after videos of the bug in action went _viral_ on social
media"
"Apple said it will compensate 14-year-old Grant Thompson and
his family for flagging the bug _more than a week before_ it attracted
national attention"
"Thompson, a high school freshman in Arizona, discovered the flaw
on January 19 while trying to start a FaceTime group chat with his
friends. His mother Michele Thompson tried to warn Apple about the
issue by calling, emailing, tweeting at, and even faxing the company,
but Apple did not publicly address the problem until [after it] was
shared online by other iPhone users."
Timeline:
o Apple accepted that they were informed a week before it went viral
o Apple fixed the bug 9 days _after_ it went viral
Notice that, as I predicted over here:
o Apple's delay may indicate QA found long-standing super-serious facetime flaws
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/1V5tFA1OQ0w>
The _reason_ Apple took so long, is that this is likely arguably the very
FIRST TIME they've _ever_ tested the facetime & related product
sufficiently - and - guess what - they found MORE BUGS!
"While investigating the [Facepalm] bug, Apple discovered another
security issue involving Live Photos on FaceTime. The company did
not specify what the bug was or how it worked, but the new updates
fixes that issue. Apple disabled the use of LivePhotos in FaceTime
on devices that have not yet been updated"
Exactly as I said it would happen... Apple management realized that
FaceTime was _never_ sufficiently tested (i.e., the bugs likely existed
since the _beginning_ but Apple has _refused_ to answer that question),
saying only:
"In addition to addressing the bug that was reported, our team
conducted a thorough security audit of the FaceTime service
and made additional updates to both the FaceTime app and
server to improve security"
Hence, everything was likely _exactly_ as I had predicted.
o Apple is very predictable, once you realize that IMAGE is everything!
I was wholly correct in predicting the _reason_ for Apple's delay.
It's very likely the _first_ time FaceTime was _ever_ tested, since Apple
has stated they _found_ more bugs and Apple _refused_ requests to state
_when_ those bugs were introduced, leaving the option that they were
_always_ there, since it's arguably proven already Apple never tested
FaceTime sufficiently.
Here's an update I just gave to Alan Baker which contains the facts.
In deference to badgolferman, I assume the reader below is an adult.
On Fri, 8 Feb 2019 16:13:48 -0800, Alan Baker wrote:
> I presented the evidence that you were completely wrong about that
> mother posting a video of the Facetime bug and reporting it to Apple
> "the next day" after her son found it (i.e. on January 20).
The subject of this thread is that Apple clearly doesn't test sufficiently.
o Apple rolls out fix for FaceTime eavesdropping bug
<https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/07/tech/apple-facetime-bug-fix/index.html>
"The software updates -- iOS 12.1.4 and macOS Mojave 10.14.3 --
were rolled out to iPhones, iPads and Mac computers on Thursday,
_nine days_ after videos of the bug in action went _viral_ on social
media"
"Apple said it will compensate 14-year-old Grant Thompson and
his family for flagging the bug _more than a week before_ it attracted
national attention"
"Thompson, a high school freshman in Arizona, discovered the flaw
on January 19 while trying to start a FaceTime group chat with his
friends. His mother Michele Thompson tried to warn Apple about the
issue by calling, emailing, tweeting at, and even faxing the company,
but Apple did not publicly address the problem until [after it] was
shared online by other iPhone users."
Timeline:
o Apple accepted that they were informed a week before it went viral
o Apple fixed the bug 9 days _after_ it went viral
Notice that, as I predicted over here:
o Apple's delay may indicate QA found long-standing super-serious facetime flaws
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/1V5tFA1OQ0w>
The _reason_ Apple took so long, is that this is likely arguably the very
FIRST TIME they've _ever_ tested the facetime & related product
sufficiently - and - guess what - they found MORE BUGS!
"While investigating the [Facepalm] bug, Apple discovered another
security issue involving Live Photos on FaceTime. The company did
not specify what the bug was or how it worked, but the new updates
fixes that issue. Apple disabled the use of LivePhotos in FaceTime
on devices that have not yet been updated"
Exactly as I said it would happen... Apple management realized that
FaceTime was _never_ sufficiently tested (i.e., the bugs likely existed
since the _beginning_ but Apple has _refused_ to answer that question),
saying only:
"In addition to addressing the bug that was reported, our team
conducted a thorough security audit of the FaceTime service
and made additional updates to both the FaceTime app and
server to improve security"
Hence, everything was likely _exactly_ as I had predicted.
o Apple is very predictable, once you realize that IMAGE is everything!
arlen holder
Feb 9, 2019, 12:30:14 AM2/9/19
to
On Sat, 9 Feb 2019 04:35:24 -0000 (UTC), Lewis wrote:
> Stupid and Crazy are both immune to facts.
And yet, I smart and logical enough to be _exactly_ correct in the OP!
> Stupid and Crazy are both immune to facts.
o Apple rolls out fix for FaceTime eavesdropping bug
<https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/07/tech/apple-facetime-bug-fix/index.html>
<https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/07/tech/apple-facetime-bug-fix/index.html>
The _reason_ Apple took so long, is that this is likely arguably the very
FIRST TIME they've _ever_ tested the facetime & related product
sufficiently - and - guess what - they found MORE SECURITY BUGS!
FIRST TIME they've _ever_ tested the facetime & related product
"While investigating the [Facepalm] bug, Apple discovered another
security issue involving Live Photos on FaceTime. The company did
not specify what the bug was or how it worked, but the new updates
fixes that issue. Apple disabled the use of LivePhotos in FaceTime
on devices that have not yet been updated"
Exactly as I said it would happen... Apple management realized that
Alan Baker
Feb 9, 2019, 12:31:22 AM2/9/19
to
On 2019-02-08 7:13 p.m., arlen holder wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Feb 2019 18:25:09 -0800, Alan Baker wrote:
>> Must I do so YET AGAIN?
>
> Hi Alan Baker,
>
> In deference to badgolferman, I'm going to assume you are an adult.
>
> Hi Alan Baker,
>
> We do seem to have a dilemma.
>
> Multiple news agencies said Apple "sat" on the bug, while you feel they
> didn't.
No.
> On Fri, 8 Feb 2019 18:25:09 -0800, Alan Baker wrote:
>> Must I do so YET AGAIN?
>
> Hi Alan Baker,
>
> In deference to badgolferman, I'm going to assume you are an adult.
>
> Hi Alan Baker,
>
> We do seem to have a dilemma.
>
> Multiple news agencies said Apple "sat" on the bug, while you feel they
> didn't.
ONE news agency wrote a story and other picked up on it.
Why did you snip the info about direct reports?
>
> OK.
>
> That's a discrepancy, which is want to happen when people apologize for the
> behavior of others. I realize the well-known propensity of the apologists
> to apologize for Apple' s behavior, so I would expect nothing less from
> you.
>
> You may not know this, Alan Baker, but I worked in software for decades,
> where we _never_ had a "video" of a bug in those days - and we did just
> fine with simple word-of-mouth (via phone calls, or email) reports of bugs.
>
> Particularly bugs that are easy to describe and reproduce.
>
> Bearing in mind this fact that a "video" is not the only way to "inform
> Apple" of an egregious and yet trivially simple bug to both describe &
> reproduce (since it's not even intermittent for Christs' sake!) ...
>
> Let me ask you an ADULT question, Alan Baker, in deference to the
> suggestion by badgolferman to treat you as an adult.
>
> Adult question for Alan Baker:
> Q: *When do you, Alan Baker, consider Apple to have been _informed_ of the bug?*
>
Why did you snip the definite information about what the mother did when?
arlen holder
Feb 9, 2019, 1:38:38 AM2/9/19
to
On Fri, 8 Feb 2019 21:31:21 -0800, Alan Baker wrote:
> ONE news agency wrote a story and other picked up on it.
Hi Alan Baker,
> ONE news agency wrote a story and other picked up on it.
In deference to badgolferman, I'll assume you can handle adult content.
RELIABLE REFERENCES:
"Thompson and his mother are widely known for being the first
people to discover and report the bug to Apple, _over a week before_
it made headlines on January 28... "
"Morris ... reported the bug to Apple _on January 27_, several days
after the Thompsons but _one day before it made headlines_. He \
apparently discovered the bug a week earlier..."
<https://www.macrumors.com/2019/02/08/facetime-bug-daven-morris/>
"Apple was made aware of the bug for some time, but only
responded to it last week _after news of it went viral_
on social media"
<https://www.thestreet.com/technology/apple-had-to-fix-another-facetime-bug-14860003>
"Apple's disclosure process--and the company's initial plan to just
_leave the flaw alone for a few days_ --raise questions about how
the company might have resolved the problem better"
<https://www.tomshardware.com/news/apple-fixes-facetime-flaw-macos-ios,38579.html>
"Grant┬ mother tried to contact Apple about the bug,...Once the media
picked up on the issue, _that's when Apple got in touch_ with her."
<https://bgr.com/2019/02/08/apple-facetime-bug-bounty-paid-to-teen-fortnite-player-and-texas-software-engineer/>
"The Wall Street Journal today shared a few details about Morris,
noting he is a 27-year-old software engineer who reported the bug
to Apple on _January 27_, several days after the Thompsons but
one day before it made headlines," the blog reports. 'He apparently
discovered the bug a week earlier while planning a group trip with
friends"
<https://www.wsj.com/articles/apple-to-reward-teen-as-it-patches-facetime-bug-11549572939>
"Thompson's mother Michelle attempted to warn Apple about the
exploit _a week before it was made public_, and claims she flung
emails, Facebook Messages, several tweets and even a fax in the
company's direction"
<https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/3070714/facetime-bug-fixed>
"The software updates -- iOS 12.1.4 and macOS Mojave 10.14.3 --
were rolled out to iPhones, iPads and Mac computers on Thursday,
_nine days_ after videos of the bug in action went _viral_ on social
media"
Letter from Congress to Tim Cook:
<https://energycommerce.house.gov/sites/democrats.energycommerce.house.gov/files/documents/Apple.2019.2.5.%20Letter%20re%20Group%20FaceTime%20Privacy%20Violation.CPC__0.pdf>
Dear Mr. Cook,
We are deeply troubled by the recent press reports about how _long_ it
took for Apple ot address a significant privacy violation identified by
Grant Thompson, a 14-year old...
... We are writing to better understand _when_ Apple _first_ learned
of this security flaw ...
Alan Baker
Feb 9, 2019, 9:09:12 PM2/9/19
to
On 2019-02-08 8:48 p.m., arlen holder wrote:
> UPDATE:
>
> I was wholly correct in predicting the _reason_ for Apple's delay.
> It's very likely the _first_ time FaceTime was _ever_ tested, since Apple
> has stated they _found_ more bugs and Apple _refused_ requests to state
> _when_ those bugs were introduced, leaving the option that they were
> _always_ there, since it's arguably proven already Apple never tested
> FaceTime sufficiently.
>
> Here's an update I just gave to Alan Baker which contains the facts.
>
> In deference to badgolferman, I assume the reader below is an adult.
>
> On Fri, 8 Feb 2019 16:13:48 -0800, Alan Baker wrote:
>
>> I presented the evidence that you were completely wrong about that
>> mother posting a video of the Facetime bug and reporting it to Apple
>> "the next day" after her son found it (i.e. on January 20).
And you ran away.
> UPDATE:
>
> I was wholly correct in predicting the _reason_ for Apple's delay.
> It's very likely the _first_ time FaceTime was _ever_ tested, since Apple
> has stated they _found_ more bugs and Apple _refused_ requests to state
> _when_ those bugs were introduced, leaving the option that they were
> _always_ there, since it's arguably proven already Apple never tested
> FaceTime sufficiently.
>
> Here's an update I just gave to Alan Baker which contains the facts.
>
> In deference to badgolferman, I assume the reader below is an adult.
>
> On Fri, 8 Feb 2019 16:13:48 -0800, Alan Baker wrote:
>
>> I presented the evidence that you were completely wrong about that
>> mother posting a video of the Facetime bug and reporting it to Apple
>> "the next day" after her son found it (i.e. on January 20).
:-)
>
> The subject of this thread is that Apple clearly doesn't test sufficiently.
> o Apple rolls out fix for FaceTime eavesdropping bug
> <https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/07/tech/apple-facetime-bug-fix/index.html>
>
> "The software updates -- iOS 12.1.4 and macOS Mojave 10.14.3 --
> were rolled out to iPhones, iPads and Mac computers on Thursday,
> _nine days_ after videos of the bug in action went _viral_ on social
> media"
given you something more to complain about?
How is 9 days and unreasonable time to roll out a software update?
>
> "Apple said it will compensate 14-year-old Grant Thompson and
> his family for flagging the bug _more than a week before_ it attracted
> national attention"
>
> "Thompson, a high school freshman in Arizona, discovered the flaw
> on January 19 while trying to start a FaceTime group chat with his
> friends. His mother Michele Thompson tried to warn Apple about the
> issue by calling, emailing, tweeting at, and even faxing the company,
> but Apple did not publicly address the problem until [after it] was
> shared online by other iPhone users."
>
> Timeline:
> o Apple accepted that they were informed a week before it went viral
Quote and source.
> o Apple fixed the bug 9 days _after_ it went viral
>
> Notice that, as I predicted over here:
> o Apple's delay may indicate QA found long-standing super-serious facetime flaws
> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/1V5tFA1OQ0w>
>
> The _reason_ Apple took so long, is that this is likely arguably the very
> FIRST TIME they've _ever_ tested the facetime & related product
> sufficiently - and - guess what - they found MORE BUGS!
Damned if they do...
>
> "While investigating the [Facepalm] bug, Apple discovered another
> security issue involving Live Photos on FaceTime. The company did
> not specify what the bug was or how it worked, but the new updates
> fixes that issue. Apple disabled the use of LivePhotos in FaceTime
> on devices that have not yet been updated"
>
> Exactly as I said it would happen... Apple management realized that
> FaceTime was _never_ sufficiently tested (i.e., the bugs likely existed
> since the _beginning_ but Apple has _refused_ to answer that question),
> saying only:
Alan Baker
Feb 9, 2019, 9:12:40 PM2/9/19
to
On 2019-02-08 10:38 p.m., arlen holder wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Feb 2019 21:31:21 -0800, Alan Baker wrote:
>
>> ONE news agency wrote a story and other picked up on it.
>
> Hi Alan Baker,
> In deference to badgolferman, I'll assume you can handle adult content.
>
> RELIABLE REFERENCES:
> "Thompson and his mother are widely known for being the first
> people to discover and report the bug to Apple, _over a week before_
> it made headlines on January 28... "
That is false.
> On Fri, 8 Feb 2019 21:31:21 -0800, Alan Baker wrote:
>
>> ONE news agency wrote a story and other picked up on it.
>
> Hi Alan Baker,
> In deference to badgolferman, I'll assume you can handle adult content.
>
> RELIABLE REFERENCES:
> "Thompson and his mother are widely known for being the first
> people to discover and report the bug to Apple, _over a week before_
> it made headlines on January 28... "
>
> "Morris ... reported the bug to Apple _on January 27_, several days
> after the Thompsons but _one day before it made headlines_. He \
> apparently discovered the bug a week earlier..."
> <https://www.macrumors.com/2019/02/08/facetime-bug-daven-morris/>
>
> "Apple was made aware of the bug for some time, but only
> responded to it last week _after news of it went viral_
> on social media"
>
> <https://www.thestreet.com/technology/apple-had-to-fix-another-facetime-bug-14860003>
>
> "Apple's disclosure process--and the company's initial plan to just
> _leave the flaw alone for a few days_ --raise questions about how
> the company might have resolved the problem better"
>
> <https://www.tomshardware.com/news/apple-fixes-facetime-flaw-macos-ios,38579.html>
>
> "Grant¢s mother tried to contact Apple about the bug,...Once the media
> picked up on the issue, _that's when Apple got in touch_ with her."
> <https://bgr.com/2019/02/08/apple-facetime-bug-bounty-paid-to-teen-fortnite-player-and-texas-software-engineer/>
Which has what to do the with subject of this thread?
> <https://bgr.com/2019/02/08/apple-facetime-bug-bounty-paid-to-teen-fortnite-player-and-texas-software-engineer/>
>
> "The Wall Street Journal today shared a few details about Morris,
> noting he is a 27-year-old software engineer who reported the bug
> to Apple on _January 27_, several days after the Thompsons but
> one day before it made headlines," the blog reports. 'He apparently
> discovered the bug a week earlier while planning a group trip with
> friends"
>
> <https://www.wsj.com/articles/apple-to-reward-teen-as-it-patches-facetime-bug-11549572939>
>
> "Thompson's mother Michelle attempted to warn Apple about the
> exploit _a week before it was made public_, and claims she flung
> emails, Facebook Messages, several tweets and even a fax in the
> company's direction"
> <https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/3070714/facetime-bug-fixed>
>
> "The software updates -- iOS 12.1.4 and macOS Mojave 10.14.3 --
> were rolled out to iPhones, iPads and Mac computers on Thursday,
> _nine days_ after videos of the bug in action went _viral_ on social
> media"
> <https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/07/tech/apple-facetime-bug-fix/index.html>
>
> Letter from Congress to Tim Cook:
> <https://energycommerce.house.gov/sites/democrats.energycommerce.house.gov/files/documents/Apple.2019.2.5.%20Letter%20re%20Group%20FaceTime%20Privacy%20Violation.CPC__0.pdf>
> Dear Mr. Cook,
> We are deeply troubled by the recent press reports about how _long_ it
> took for Apple ot address a significant privacy violation identified by
> Grant Thompson, a 14-year old...
>
> ... We are writing to better understand _when_ Apple _first_ learned
> of this security flaw ...
>
arlen holder
Feb 10, 2019, 3:37:07 AM2/10/19
to
Google warns about two iOS zero-days 'exploited in the wild'
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/google-warns-about-two-ios-zero-days-exploited-in-the-wild/>
"A Google top security engineer has revealed today that hackers have been
launching attacks against iPhone users using two iOS vulnerabilities. The
attacks have happened before Apple had a chance to release iOS 12.1.4 today
--meaning the two vulnerabilities are what security experts call
"zero-days."
Forbes warns that this is the most important iOS release ever!\
Since iOS 12.1.4 fixes *four serious exploits* that have been around for
quite some time, this Forbes article goes so far as to state iOS 12.1.4 is
o "The most important upgrade in iOS history",
o even though they say it's "far from buggy" itself,.
<https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2019/01/29/apple-ios-12-1-3-release-iphone-xs-max-xr-problem-facetime-problem-video-calls-audio-calls/>
Forbes notes that iOS 12.1.4 is large:
"Weighing in at approximately 500MB, this is a surprisingly
large upgrade for a dedicated bug fix. That said, itÿs the
most essential fix in iPhone history."
The four serious exploits are:
1. Extremely serious FacePalm vulnerability found by a mere child
2. Extremely serious LIvePhotos vulnerability found by Apple
3 & 4. Serious memory exploits found by Google
Interestingly, since I'm on the same iOS version my iPad was born with, I'm
likely "safe" from the FacePalm exploit since...
o "the vulnerability only affected devices running iOS 12.1 or later."
Given this description of the FacePalm bug, it's kind of classic that the
Apologists like Jolly Roger drastically minimized the severity of this
egregious bug (which is likely the worst privacy bug in iOS history for a
variety of reasons):
"Apple has acknowledged that it is possible to access the audio
and video of any iPhone running iOS 12.1 or later. Whatÿs more,
not only is this easy to do, you wonÿt be able to tell when someone
has done this to you."
"The vulnerability is so dangerous that any iPhone owner can
exploit another iPhone owner. All it requires is do the following
three steps:
a. Go to a contact and start a FaceTime call
b. Swipe up and select ´Add Person¡
c. Enter your own cell number and add yourself to the call"
"The consequences of this have left the privacy of millions of
iPhone users exposed and was made worse by revelations
that Apple was warned about this bug almost a week earlier
but did little to act. "
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/google-warns-about-two-ios-zero-days-exploited-in-the-wild/>
"A Google top security engineer has revealed today that hackers have been
launching attacks against iPhone users using two iOS vulnerabilities. The
attacks have happened before Apple had a chance to release iOS 12.1.4 today
--meaning the two vulnerabilities are what security experts call
"zero-days."
Forbes warns that this is the most important iOS release ever!\
Since iOS 12.1.4 fixes *four serious exploits* that have been around for
quite some time, this Forbes article goes so far as to state iOS 12.1.4 is
o "The most important upgrade in iOS history",
o even though they say it's "far from buggy" itself,.
<https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2019/01/29/apple-ios-12-1-3-release-iphone-xs-max-xr-problem-facetime-problem-video-calls-audio-calls/>
Forbes notes that iOS 12.1.4 is large:
"Weighing in at approximately 500MB, this is a surprisingly
large upgrade for a dedicated bug fix. That said, itÿs the
most essential fix in iPhone history."
The four serious exploits are:
1. Extremely serious FacePalm vulnerability found by a mere child
2. Extremely serious LIvePhotos vulnerability found by Apple
3 & 4. Serious memory exploits found by Google
Interestingly, since I'm on the same iOS version my iPad was born with, I'm
likely "safe" from the FacePalm exploit since...
o "the vulnerability only affected devices running iOS 12.1 or later."
Given this description of the FacePalm bug, it's kind of classic that the
Apologists like Jolly Roger drastically minimized the severity of this
egregious bug (which is likely the worst privacy bug in iOS history for a
variety of reasons):
"Apple has acknowledged that it is possible to access the audio
and video of any iPhone running iOS 12.1 or later. Whatÿs more,
not only is this easy to do, you wonÿt be able to tell when someone
has done this to you."
"The vulnerability is so dangerous that any iPhone owner can
exploit another iPhone owner. All it requires is do the following
three steps:
a. Go to a contact and start a FaceTime call
b. Swipe up and select ´Add Person¡
c. Enter your own cell number and add yourself to the call"
"The consequences of this have left the privacy of millions of
iPhone users exposed and was made worse by revelations
that Apple was warned about this bug almost a week earlier
but did little to act. "
John McWilliams
Feb 10, 2019, 11:30:32 AM2/10/19
to
Alan Baker
Feb 10, 2019, 5:58:27 PM2/10/19
to
On 2019-02-10 12:37 a.m., arlen holder wrote:
> Google warns about...
...replying to people who cannot reply to you without snipping
everything you've said.
> Google warns about...
...replying to people who cannot reply to you without snipping
everything you've said.
John McWilliams
Feb 10, 2019, 7:56:25 PM2/10/19
to
Andreas Rutishauser
Feb 11, 2019, 12:42:19 AM2/11/19
to
In article <q3onri$ng5$1...@news.mixmin.net>,
--
MacAndreas Rutishauser, <http://www.MacAndreas.ch>
EDV-Dienstleistungen, Hard- und Software, Internet und Netzwerk
Beratung, Unterstuetzung und Schulung
<mailto:and...@MacAndreas.ch>, Fon: 044 / 721 36 47
arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:
> Google warns about two iOS zero-days 'exploited in the wild'
why are you posting your drivel to non relevant groups?
> Google warns about two iOS zero-days 'exploited in the wild'
--
MacAndreas Rutishauser, <http://www.MacAndreas.ch>
EDV-Dienstleistungen, Hard- und Software, Internet und Netzwerk
Beratung, Unterstuetzung und Schulung
<mailto:and...@MacAndreas.ch>, Fon: 044 / 721 36 47
Lewis
Feb 11, 2019, 1:12:49 AM2/11/19
to
In message <q3pjj5$imc$3...@dont-email.me> John McWilliams <jp...@comcast.net> wrote:
> FU to .mac.system
Your quote spamming bullshit is rude. I have dipshit killfiled for a
reason, and you quoting his mindless drivel in full in a futile attempt
to prevent his stuff showing up on "your" group is less than pointless.
What do you think is going to happen? People replying to the worthless
troll are going to reply to your message and respect your followup
setting? That is never going to happen.
I'd tell you to stop, but I no longer care, having added you to the same
bozo filter as the aforementioned dipshit.
--
If the #2 pencil is the most popular, why is it still #2?
> FU to .mac.system
Your quote spamming bullshit is rude. I have dipshit killfiled for a
reason, and you quoting his mindless drivel in full in a futile attempt
to prevent his stuff showing up on "your" group is less than pointless.
What do you think is going to happen? People replying to the worthless
troll are going to reply to your message and respect your followup
setting? That is never going to happen.
I'd tell you to stop, but I no longer care, having added you to the same
bozo filter as the aforementioned dipshit.
--
If the #2 pencil is the most popular, why is it still #2?
John McWilliams
Feb 13, 2019, 11:39:15 PM2/13/19
to
arlen holder
Mar 27, 2019, 1:25:22 PM3/27/19
to
On Sun, 3 Feb 2019 18:59:26 -0000 (UTC), arlen holder wrote:
> I suspect Apple's delay indicates they found long-standing super-serious
> facetime flaws ... or that Apple wants to test (for the first time)
> sufficiently _before_ releasing the diarrhea of iOS updates to the users!
There is a lot of proof that Apple finds only 1 out of 10 security bugs in
> I suspect Apple's delay indicates they found long-standing super-serious
> facetime flaws ... or that Apple wants to test (for the first time)
> sufficiently _before_ releasing the diarrhea of iOS updates to the users!
their software in this thread today:
o iOS v12.2 is out now! (by Ant)
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/v3y5ih7ReCE>
Where just one guy (Samuel Gross) at Google Project Zero found almost as
many bugs (only 1 less) than did _all_ of Apple, which is a pretty damning
statement on Apple's supreme lack of any reasonable level of QA when one
guy outdoes the _entire_ company on finding bugs.
*The number of huge such holes in iOS is literally shocking!*
And that's not me using that word ... it's in this report published today!
"*Those are just a few of the most shocking [iOS] security flaws*"
<https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/26/tech/ios-12-2-security/index.html>
Specifically, what seems to have happened is that Apple, finally, for the
first time seemingly, has looked at Facetime, and found security hole after
security hole after security hole after security hole.
And it's not just Facetime, but even shocking flaws in the microphone!
"Perhaps the most notable fix: Apple patched a flaw that could allow
malicious applications to access the microphone on your iPhone
and record you and those around you. "
That article goes on to remind us that:
"But that's just one of the vulnerabilities..."
Where, there's more privacy & security holes Apple only found by putting
eyes on Facetime, seemingly for the first time, where Apple fixed
o a problem with the FaceTime app that prevented video chats from pausing
o a loophole that allowed users to access sensitive information in the
Messages app and websites visited
o see information from their phone's light and motion sensors
etc.
All perhaps simply because a mother went viral on the Internet
o Apple may not care about testing, but they care very much about IMAGE!
Arlen G. Holder
Sep 3, 2019, 2:18:34 PM9/3/19
to
Hehhehheh...
FACTS:
o A very deep dive into iOS Exploit chains found in the wild
<https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2019/08/a-very-deep-dive-into-ios-exploit.html>
Yet again, for the umpteenth time, I was correct in my assessment of fact!
Adults can do two things that apologists can't do:
a. Comprehend basic facts
b. Assess those facts
Notice this iOS 12.1.4 fact that was only recently disclosed:
o Yet another Astoundingly Huge Massive Indiscriminate iPhone Hack Has Been Going Strong for Two Years!
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/rRzsRZin3c4>
Notice the _date_ this was reported to Apple!
o It fits perfectly into the delay that Apple was forced to endure!
It turns out, that the likely reason Apple took so long to release iOS
12.1.4 wasn't so much that they found more FaceTime bugs, but, that Google
found a devastatingly huge series of 14 bugs in all levels of all iOS
releases from iOS 10 to 12 which Google said were simply because Apple
forgot to do even the most basic testing of its iOS diarrhea!
In short, it's likely that the delay wasn't necessarily due to the already
terrible FaceTime flaws that a child found (note, Apple never tests iOS
releases sufficiently such that a child can find their exploits)...
But the delay was due to what turns out to be far worse - which is a huge
series of the most devastatingly deep set of 14 exploits that simply proves
(yet again) that the iOS diarrhea is never sufficiently tested by Apple.
What's more interesting is that Apple _fooled_ everyone, as shown here:
o Don't ever trust anything that Apple says in their release notes
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/vouXWs6ywo0>
FACTS
FACTS:
o A very deep dive into iOS Exploit chains found in the wild
<https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2019/08/a-very-deep-dive-into-ios-exploit.html>
Yet again, for the umpteenth time, I was correct in my assessment of fact!
Adults can do two things that apologists can't do:
a. Comprehend basic facts
b. Assess those facts
Notice this iOS 12.1.4 fact that was only recently disclosed:
o Yet another Astoundingly Huge Massive Indiscriminate iPhone Hack Has Been Going Strong for Two Years!
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/rRzsRZin3c4>
Notice the _date_ this was reported to Apple!
o It fits perfectly into the delay that Apple was forced to endure!
It turns out, that the likely reason Apple took so long to release iOS
12.1.4 wasn't so much that they found more FaceTime bugs, but, that Google
found a devastatingly huge series of 14 bugs in all levels of all iOS
releases from iOS 10 to 12 which Google said were simply because Apple
forgot to do even the most basic testing of its iOS diarrhea!
In short, it's likely that the delay wasn't necessarily due to the already
terrible FaceTime flaws that a child found (note, Apple never tests iOS
releases sufficiently such that a child can find their exploits)...
But the delay was due to what turns out to be far worse - which is a huge
series of the most devastatingly deep set of 14 exploits that simply proves
(yet again) that the iOS diarrhea is never sufficiently tested by Apple.
What's more interesting is that Apple _fooled_ everyone, as shown here:
o Don't ever trust anything that Apple says in their release notes
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/vouXWs6ywo0>
FACTS
nospam
Sep 3, 2019, 2:26:07 PM9/3/19
to
In article <qkmapp$4gd$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen G. Holder
<arlen.g...@arlenholder.net> wrote:
> Yet again, for the umpteenth time, I was incorrect in my assessment of fact!
ftfy
<arlen.g...@arlenholder.net> wrote:
> Yet again, for the umpteenth time, I was incorrect in my assessment of fact!
ftfy
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