This is important to the groups that the posters below post to.
I post a lot of facts.
Well verified. Well cited. Easily validated facts.
Those facts are often challenged by this group of canonical naysayers:
That naysaying of easily validated facts stretches a thread ad infinitum.
Simply because these posters deny that facts exist outside their spheres.
Why can't I communicate with these people?
o Are they so dumb as to be un communicative with adults?
o Are they just pulling out leg and toying with us?
Or, is it actually far _deeper_ than that?
I think - I just realized - belatedly - belatedly by years - why.
It will make _all_ the difference in how I respond to them in the future.
I just belatedly realized why sentient logical adults just can't
communicate with the likes of Jolly Roger & nospam & Alan Baker & Snit (et.
It may simply be that they're the epitome of the left-side DK effect:
o I used to think it had to be that they were pulling our leg all the time,
o Or that, they were just incredibly (unfathomably) stupid.
But I think, it seems, perhaps, the problem is actually far worse
o It may be that they are the epitome of the left-side DK effect
In which case, no sentient adult can _ever_ carry on a normal conversation
with them, if that conversation contains even the simplest of known facts.
Examples abound, where I'll just point to two very recent examples.
In these examples (as usual) it only takes 10 seconds to prove them wrong.
I don't mind people having strong opinions, mind you - opinions are fine.
But to repeatedly & steadfastly claim that facts are wrong - is strange.
Adults - at least intelligent adults - don't generally claim facts are wrong.
Especially when it only takes ten seconds to prove the facts are correct.
Why do people like Alan Baker, BK, Jolly Roger, nospam, do such odd things?
o I used to think it's just that they're unfathomably incredibly stupid, or,
o Perhaps they're just playing silly games for their own amusement.
I've _always_ wondered _why_ people like nospam & Jolly Roger do this.
I belatedly realized it's because they're _perfect_ left-side DK specimens!
o nospam *insists* that Apple did NOT add throttling software to the iPhone X;
o And yet, well-published facts easily show they did (long ago, in fact).
o Alan Baker insists a link to a Usenet post is not "proof" of fact;
o And yet, that Usenet post _contains_ links to the very statements from Apple!
o Jolly Roger insists that iOS has the import/export ICS file capability;
o And yet, anyone _instantly_ can see that it doesn't even come close.
o Both Jolly Roger & nospam insist that a signature must be added outside of VPN.
o And yet, it's trivial to prove otherwise in seconds - with a single simple test.
o Snit insists that his video shows iOS graphing wifi signal strength over time;
o And yet, anyone _instantly_ can see that he never looked at the abscissa.
The examples abound...
o The DK crew make statements as if they actually comprehend basic facts.
o And yet, they just don't.
It takes only ten seconds to prove each of these people dead wrong.
o Using just simple easily verified facts.
o All the time.
It boggles my mind that people can appear to be _that_ incredibly stupid.
It actually bothers me because I had more faith in adults than they deserve.
As most of you know, I've been studying Apple Apologists for years, but
only recently did I realize that it's not so much that they're incredibly
stupid, but that they don't _realize_ they're incredibly stupid.
They constantly make claims that are easily disproved in mere seconds.
It's not a problem that they both hold such strong convictions.
o The problem is that they claim all facts are lies
o Simply because _they_ can't comprehend even the simplest of facts
*That they don't realize they're _perfect_ left-side DK specimens!*
They _think_ they comprehend facts - and yet - they prove - they don't.
Every single time.
I used to think there were only two possibilities:
o Either they really are that incredibly unfathomably stupid, or,
o They're just pulling our leg (all the time).
But now, I just realized, they're picture-perfect left-side DK specimens!
NOTE: Most people don't comprehend what the DK effect entails.
The DK effect is a "skills self-assessment" effect.
In terms of nospam & Jolly Roger, those with the least skills tend to
overrate their skill set and to trust their judgment far more than more
rationale people would dream of doing.
While I've always said I'm only of average intelligence (if even that),
this belated realization of both Jolly Roger and nospam exhibit, explains
why they always appear to claim easily verified facts are "lies" or
"trolls" when those easily verified facts disagree with their religious
Here's a direct quote of what effect both Jolly Roger & nospam exhibit:
"the DunningĄVKruger effect is a cognitive bias in which people
of low ability have illusory superiority and mistakenly assess
their cognitive ability as greater than it is"
NOTE: Most of us are in the middle - and some even to the right; where
everyone has a cognitive bias when self-assessing skills. This cognitive
bias spans both sides, from self assessing our own skill set, to assessing
how much effort it takes others to gain our skill set. Those to the left
vastly overestimate both their skills and the effort it takes others to
gain their skills - whereas those to the right tend to underestimate their
skills and to underestimate the effort it takes to attain their skills.
Those in the middle are the most balanced in self assessment of skills.
In short, I've just realized that the problem with these people is not
o that they can't comprehend even the simplest of facts, nor is it
o that they are just constantly pulling our leg for amusement.
It's likely literally that they are the epitome of the left-side DK effect.
o They self assess themselves so highly, that facts are not needed.
o When challenged on facts, they simply deny the fact.
*They actually _believe_ their denials of basic facts - are correct.*
They're literally incapable of self-assessing themselves on that regard.
In summary, not only have I been dealing with them incorrectly all along
(in that I had assumed they possessed a 'normal' mind), but the entire
approach is quite different once I realize that they are, literally,
exactly what the Dunning-Kruger effects speaks about with the left-side
*This belated realization will affect how I treat them in the future.*
(I will no longer attempt to discuss basic facts with them - since -
it's clear - they don't appear to possess the cognitive skills to assess
even the simplest of basic easily validated & verified facts.)