When Spells Don't Work
Evergreen
intent, ideation, emotion, and imagination.
These were symbolized by ancient mages as:
Earth Air Fire Water
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/897ad7c16b5d365e
Message-ID: <orps46x...@amma.net>
You have the idea of what you want, the emotions and imaginings
that belong to it, and the intent, the Will, to make them a reality.
If you have been misled by the ignorant or the deceitful,
you will will wrap these essential spell elements in various
costumes: Prayer to some 'supernatural' being(s) or elaborate
rituals based on the assumption that magick is some kind of
invisible technology.
Magick as a Supernatural Technology
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/2667fd32fb1e6189
Message-ID: <8phd16x...@amma.net>
But it's really the amount of concentration-energy you put into
the 4 essential elements, intent, ideation, and emotion that are
doing the real work.
When the spell doesn't work, it is because you are already maintaining
a counter-spell(s) that are blocking it.
You _are_ a magickal being and everything you have, are, and experience
is the result of magick. This is the Truth that most schools of magick
are unaware of, and why their methods don't work.
The present reality/condition you want to change is something you have
created already, however unwittingly, with magick.
Often the problem is at the abstract spell level. For example, you
may believe that you are unworthy and don't deserve a good life.
Spells are beliefs. Your beliefs, the spells you are maintaining,
and the reasons for them, are in the background of your conscious
mind. In order to delete or change a spell, you have to face it
and assume the responsibility for it and contemplate the reasons
your whole self adopted it in the first place.
Sid
--
Wiccan Priest :-) and Apprentice Magician
http://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
Ren
> intent, ideation, emotion, and imagination.
No Sidney, those are terms you learned from Psychiatry in an attempt
to understand and treat yourself. These are terms applied to self
mutilators, psychotics, and people with suicidal tendencies. Since you
demand proof. Here is an article containing those very same terms.
>
> These were symbolized by ancient mages as:
Where is your historical, literary or archeological evidence to
support this?
> You have the idea of what you want, the emotions and imaginings
> that belong to it, and the intent, the Will, to make them a reality.
First you must desire what you want. Then you must know how to get it
through patience, practice and persistence. Finally, you must be quiet
about it.
> If you have been misled by the ignorant or the deceitful,
> you will will wrap these essential spell elements in various
> costumes: Prayer to some 'supernatural' being(s) or elaborate
> rituals based on the assumption that magick is some kind of
> invisible technology.
Air, Fire, Water and Earth are metaphors for 4 basic states of being
within nature. They are in every aspect of nature, not just mechanisms
of the human mind.
> But it's really the amount of concentration-energy you put into
> the 4 essential elements, intent, ideation, and emotion that are
> doing the real work.
And which of the 4 elements do you ascribe to intent, ideation and
emotion? You forgot 'imagination'. No, 'concentration' is not the same
thing as 'imagination'.
> When the spell doesn't work, it is because you are already maintaining
> a counter-spell(s) that are blocking it.
My spells always work for me. If someone has two spells and one is
blocking the other unintentionally, it is not called a "counter-
spell". A "counter-spell" is a defensive spell to counter-act an
attacking spell. What you are talking about are "conflicting spells".
> You _are_ a magickal being and everything you have, are, and experience
> is the result of magick. This is the Truth that most schools of magick
> are unaware of, and why their methods don't work.
Here you go criticizing most schools of magick assuming that their
magick doesn't work. My guess is that some clever magician from
another place on the internet scrambled your brains and delivered you
to us. I remember the time just before you came here, Sidney. I called
for a challenge. I called for a troll. I called for dinner. Then you
suddenly arrived. I am grateful.
> The present reality/condition you want to change is something you have
> created already, however unwittingly, with magick.
You do many things unwittingly. I also do things unwittingly which is
why I constantly remind myself to pay attention to what I'm doing. I
bet I do fewer things unwittingly than you.
> Often the problem is at the abstract spell level. For example, you
> may believe that you are unworthy and don't deserve a good life.
Believing that you are unworthy to be happy is 'abstract' -- true. A
better word is 'mental' as in, on a mental level.
> Spells are beliefs. Your beliefs, the spells you are maintaining,
> and the reasons for them, are in the background of your conscious
> mind. In order to delete or change a spell, you have to face it
> and assume the responsibility for it and contemplate the reasons
> your whole self adopted it in the first place.
Beliefs and records of the spells you are maintaining are important
things. I also believe that it is important not to maintain two spells
working toward the same thing. But most Wiccans who keep a "Book of
Shadows" are able to deal with that problem quite effectively. Your
latest spell for something almost always overpowers older spells for
the same thing.
> Sid
>
> --
> Wiccan Priest :-) and Apprentice Magicianhttp://tinyurl.com/7vs9zb
Awe, you put a happy face next to "and Apprentice". As if we are going
to go easy on you because of your happy little lamb-like face.
Evergreen
[delete]
Garbage.
Read about ren here:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/bddb8c59f894a2a5
here's where you can read some of his allegedly auto-biographical
articles, and note the inconsistencies in them.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/1b67881c7715302c
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/609b26aa645f2065
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/1e789b7d0754d099
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/e1cd2d7b9f06e4b9
Knowing ren, you can bet your life that they are all fiction. He
just makes up reality as he goes along:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/cd4ed84e654efd86
storm
> > There are many ways to cast spells. The essential elements are
> > intent, ideation, emotion, and imagination.
>
> No Sidney, those are terms you learned from Psychiatry in an attempt
> to understand and treat yourself. These are terms applied to self
> mutilators, psychotics, and people with suicidal tendencies. Since you
> demand proof. Here is an article containing those very same terms.
>
It's a celebration religion! What's wrong with a happy face? :-)
IHow about <|:-) for a signature smiley? Isn't that supposed to be a
happy face witch?
Actually, and I hate to do this, believe me, I would have to agree
with a good deal of this article you are responding to.
The basis for that is discussions I have had on whether or not one
needs tools to do magic. You get the people who have jeweled daggers
for athames, people like me who use the simplest dagger they can find,
people like my lady who dislike knives as tools and use a substitute
(she has a shaped sea shell I gifted her) and folk who just point a
finger. The conversation goes round and round about whose magic is
"stronger" based on their dagger, whether it is just a point of
concentration of will, etc, etc. My usual take is that magic is an
immeasureable concept, effectively infinite in nature, and therefore,
not meaningfully comparable at all; that the effort to do so is a joke
better than any of mine. Soooner or later I get to make the point
that it is not the size of the Wand but the expertise of the wielder
that matters.
When it becomes accepted that the tool is not the central necessity,
then it becomes a philosophical excercise as to how much you do not
need. Eventually, you get down to the concept that you do not need
any tools or rituals at all. This leads to a general description of
magic spells such as that presented above. Usually without the
domatic insistence, but not always.
It leads to the paradox that we do not needs the tools, chants,
dancing, words and ritual, but we Wiccans do that anyway. As I have
said, I love the paradoxes of life, and especially religion. I view
them as beautiful expressions of where we transcend standard logic and
sensibility and move to other levels of understanding. Or not. In
finding our resolutions to those paradoxes, we sometimes find the
inner workings of ourselves and the world. Or not. Some paradoxes do
not resolve, and that is excellent, too.
For this one, I think the resolution of the paradox is that doing
magic is incredibly difficult unless you are one of those who are
"gifted". We all have some access to the infinity that is magic, to
my belief and preaching. But for many, that access is very limited
and they need assistance. This is what tools are for. Like a hammer,
the tool becomes an extension and focus for the strength of the
wielder. Like a wheel, the tool makes it more efficient to use your
own effort. If you were strong enough, you would need neither hammer
nor wheel, but we do not mock or deride those who use either hammer or
wheel. We are, after all, tool using creatures by nature. Even those
with the greatest physical strength can take advantage of those tools
to good purpose. In magical work, maybe it is not the physical tool
itself, but the mental, emotional, and spiritual patterns we associate
with that tool because of instincts and training. But it is still
effective as a tool. And maybe, just maybe, those tools are just a
sort of training wheels for magic. As we grow and learn, some
immediately, some over time, we find we do not need those tools and
can set them aside. Maybe that is when we learn to use a different
set of tools.
Then the tools can be there because we like them. These votives were
poured for us during an Imbolg ritual. This altar cloth was hand dyed
and painted by a student who now leads her own group. This goddess
figure was given by a non-Wiccan friend from church who has since then
passed away. If there were no need for these things, we would make
room for them somehow. They add a richness and depth to everything we
do. To do away with tools, with song and dance with friends, with
words and images that move us so, would turn magic itself into a cold
proposition, an exercise for an ascetic hermit version of infinity and
magic. Perhaps it is not a necessity at all, but is still an added
value beyond description, which makes it priceless beyond necessity.
Neither do we need Love and Beauty in our lives to make magic. But
given the choice, I would choose them and use them in all I do,
including whatever magic I might choose.
So, while I agree with the theoretical portion of that tool-free
nature of magic, I disagree with the practical portion, with the
practice as such. Just because it is possible to do it that way
doesn't mean you have to do it that way. Even if someone tells you it
is the only way, that doesn't mean you have to do it that way. And
that leads to one of the best paradoxes. The one and only truth there
is, is that there is no one and only truth. Not if we humans are
involved. Especially if we are magical beings changing the universe
as we go.
-storm <|:-)
Evergreen
[delete]
> My spells always work for me.
Oh yeh? Then why haven't you driven me from this group?
For those not acquainted with your months of vain attempts
to do so, often using malicous lies in the process, I offer
simply the subjects of posts by you with my name in them:
#Subject: Hey, Sidney.
#Subject: A Picture of Sidney and His Girlfriend
#Subject: Sidney, Maybe the FBI Would Like to Know
#Subject: Re: Hey, Sidney.
#Subject: )The War of the Wiccans( Ren Versus Sidney
#Subject: Re: )The War of the Wiccans( Ren Versus Sidney
#Subject: Re: Hey, Sidney.
#Subject: Re: Hey, Sidney.
#Subject: Sidney, The Delphi Technique
#Subject: This is Sid's Complaint With Religion and Wicca
#Subject: Re: This is Sid's Complaint With Religion and Wicca
#Subject: Re: This is Sid's Complaint With Religion and Wicca
#Subject: Re: This is Sid's Complaint With Religion and Wicca
#Subject: Re: This is Sid's Complaint With Religion and Wicca
#Subject: Re: This is Sid's Complaint With Religion and Wicca
#Subject: Re: o/~I'm Throwing My Arms Around Sidney o/~
#Subject: Why Sid and BBDD Have Lady Problems
#Subject: Beware Sid
#Subject: Re: Answering Sid's Questions About Wicca
#Subject: Re: Would Sidney Lambe Like to be Warlocked?
#Subject: Would Sidney Lambe Like to be Warlocked?
#Subject: Re: Would Sidney Lambe Like to be Warlocked?
#Subject: So Sidney's 411?
#Subject: Re: Who Takes Orders From This Clown? (was: Re: Do Not Reply to Sidney
#Lambe)
#Subject: What Accounts for Sidney's Trolling?
#Subject: Sid, Another Challenge For You
#Subject: Re: Sid, Another Challenge For You
#Subject: Re: Sid, Another Challenge For You
#Subject: Re: Sidney and BBDD, I'm Not Going to Hurt You
#Subject: Re: Sid, Another Challenge For You
#Subject: Re: Sidney, All About Me (Ren's Story)
#Subject: Re: Sidney and BBDD, I'm Not Going to Hurt You
#Subject: Re: ping: Sidney
#Subject: Sidney's Response To Aine's Question
#Subject: Re: No He Isn't (was: Re: o/~I'm Throwing My Arms Around Sidney o/~)
#Subject: )Weird War 1( What is Your Goal/Mission/Wish Sid?
#Subject: Re: Sidney and BBDD, I'm Not Going to Hurt You
#Subject: Re: I Challenge You Sid
#Subject: Re: Sidney and BBDD, I'm Not Going to Hurt You
#Subject: Sidney, I can See You Cry
#Subject: Answering Sid's Questions About Wicca
#Subject: Sid, Do You Want To Tell This Newsgroup Something?
#Subject: Stay Away From Sidney Lambe, He Is Dangerous
#Subject: Re: "Sidney" has been a busy boy today!
#Subject: Re: Sidney's Response To Aine's Question
#Subject: Used Magick, Sidney (You Are A Threat)
#Subject: Sidney, All About Me (Ren's Story)
#Subject: )OT Flame War( Do Better Trolling, Sid
#Subject: Why I Posted Sidney's Private Information
#Subject: Burn Before Reading Sidney's Posts
#Subject: Re: Sidney and BBDD, I'm Not Going to Hurt You
#Subject: Re: )Weird War 1( -- Here is a Guy Looking to Kill Sid
#Subject: Re: D-Day of Weird War 1 "trolling for trolls such as Sid."
#Subject: Re: Sid, Do You Want To Tell This Newsgroup Something?
#Subject: Re: Sid, Do You Want To Tell This Newsgroup Something?
#Subject: Re: Sid and BBDD, About Curses
#Subject: Re: )Weird War 1( -- Here is a Guy Looking to Kill Sid
#Subject: Re: Sidney and BBDD, I'm Not Going to Hurt You
#Subject: Do Not Reply to Sidney Lambe
#Subject: Re: Sidney, I Don't Cheat
#Subject: Re: )Weird War 1( -- Sidney's Aliases
#Subject: Re: Burn Before Reading Sidney's Posts
#Subject: Re: Sidney, All About Me (Ren's Story)
#Subject: Re: Sid's Challenge Results -- Joseph
#Subject: I Challenge You Sid
#Subject: Re: Sid, Another Challenge For You
#Subject: Re: Sidney, All About Me (Ren's Story)
#Subject: Re: Sid and BBDD, About Curses
#Subject: Re: Why I Posted Sidney's Private Information
#Subject: Re: D-Day of Weird War 1 "trolling for trolls such as Sid."
#Subject: Re: Sidney, All About Me (Ren's Story)
#Subject: Re: Sid, Another Challenge For You
#Subject: Sidney's Posts Are Mostly Artificial Ignorance
#Subject: Re: Sidney and BBDD, I'm Not Going to Hurt You
#Subject: Re: Sid, Another Challenge For You
#Subject: Call Your Teacher Here Sidney
#Subject: Sidney, I Don't Cheat
#Subject: Sidney Contradicts the First Hermetic Magickal Principle
#Subject: D-Day of Weird War 1 "I accept your challenge, Sid."
#Subject: Re: ping: Sidney
#Subject: o/~I'm Throwing My Arms Around Sidney o/~
#Subject: Re: Sidney and BBDD, I'm Not Going to Hurt You
#Subject: Mail From X-Privat.Org -- Sidney's Re-Mailer
#Subject: Re: Sidney and BBDD, I'm Not Going to Hurt You
#Subject: Re: When is Sid Going to Release?
#Subject: Re: Sidney and BBDD, I'm Not Going to Hurt You
#Subject: Sid's Challenge Results -- Joseph
#Subject: Re: Sid, Do You Want To Tell This Newsgroup Something?
#Subject: Re: Used Magick, Sidney (You Are A Threat)
#Subject: Re: Sid, Do You Want To Tell This Newsgroup Something?
#Subject: Re: SidTroll
#Subject: Is Sidney Hinting at Terrorism?
#Subject: Sid and BBDD, About Curses
#Subject: Sidney and BBDD, I'm Not Going to Hurt You
#Subject: Re: Would Sidney Lambe Like to be Warlocked?
#Subject: Re: Stay Away From Sidney Lambe, He Is Dangerous
#Subject: Re: Sidney and BBDD, I'm Not Going to Hurt You
#Subject: Re: Used Magick, Sidney (You Are A Threat)
#Subject: Re: )Weird War 1( -- Here is a Guy Looking to Kill Sid
#Subject: Re: ping: Sidney
#Subject: Re: Sidney Contradicts the First Hermetic Magickal Principle
#Subject: Re: Sidney and BBDD, I'm Not Going to Hurt You
#Subject: Re: Used Magick, Sidney (You Are A Threat)
#Subject: Re: So Sidney's 411?
#Subject: Re: This is Sid's Complaint With Religion and Wicca
#Subject: Re: This is Sid's Complaint With Religion and Wicca
#Subject: Re: This is Sid's Complaint With Religion and Wicca
#Subject: Sidney Never Accepts My Challenges
#Subject: Re: Sidney Never Accepts My Challenges
#Subject: Re: This is Sid's Complaint With Religion and Wicca
#Subject: Re: Sidney Never Accepts My Challenges
#Subject: Sidney, I Believe People Like You Will Be Killed
[delete]
Ren knows nothing about magick. All he does is parrot material
he finds on the Web that he thinks is about magick because it
says it is. He'a a cheap charlatan.
Not to mention that he's a pathological liar, a delusional neurotic,
and an incipient sociopath:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/bddb8c59f894a2a5
And here you can read some of his allegedly auto-biographical articles,
and note the inconsistencies in them.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/1b67881c7715302c
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/609b26aa645f2065
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/1e789b7d0754d099
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/e1cd2d7b9f06e4b9
Knowing ren, you can bet they are all fiction. He just makes up reality
as he goes along:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/cd4ed84e654efd86
Ren
> Knowing ren, you can bet your life that they are all fiction. He
> just makes up reality as he goes along:
You always bet your life and tell people to bet theirs on the silliest
of things. That indicates the worth you place on your own life. Other
conclusions may be drawn from that.
Ren
> -storm <|:-)
Magickal artifacts are important tools for us because they help our
conscious minds communicate with our subconscious minds.
Magick is symbolic. But I am not powerless without my tools. Remember
that old movie Willow?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i-nM0XN97k&feature=related
As for me I'm painting happy little trees with my spork wand.
ren <|:-)
Ren
Evergreen
>> There are many ways to cast spells. The essential elements are
>> intent, ideation, emotion, and imagination.
[delete]
>> These were symbolized by ancient mages as:
[Earth Air Fire Water]
> Where is your historical, literary or archeological evidence to
> support this?
See? That's the reason you have no magickal skills, ren. You look
to academics who have no magickal skills for insight into magick.
Real magicians call people like you "book mages", because all you
can do is cite useless information from academics.
And I can prove you don't know any magick at all, easily. I do it
just by posting here. Clearly, you'd do anything to get rid of me.
You even go so far as to tell malicious lies about me, sacrificing
what little credibility you had.
If you had any magickal skills I'd be gone. After all, I am just
a beginner.
Unlike you, I am going to back up my accusations with real evidence:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/6c67697dbac78683
[delete]
Troigan Tho
<sidne...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> There are many ways to cast spells. The essential elements are
> intent, ideation, emotion, and imagination.
>
> These were symbolized by ancient mages as:
>
> Earth Air Fire Water
> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/897ad7c16
> b5d365e Message-ID: <orps46x...@amma.net>
>
> You have the idea of what you want, the emotions and imaginings
> that belong to it, and the intent, the Will, to make them a
> reality.
That is the best explanation for the magickal significance of
the Earth, Air, Fire, and Water symbols I have ever run across.
All the other stuff about them is great to talk about and sounds
so wonderful, but you can't do anything with them. Good for
poetry and playing the role of a magician, but not for doing
real magick.
> If you have been misled by the ignorant or the deceitful,
> you will will wrap these essential spell elements in various
> costumes: Prayer to some 'supernatural' being(s) or elaborate
> rituals based on the assumption that magick is some kind of
> invisible technology.
Oy!
>
> Magick as a Supernatural Technology
> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/2667fd32f
> b1e6189 Message-ID: <8phd16x...@amma.net>
>
> But it's really the amount of concentration-energy you put into
> the 4 essential elements, intent, ideation, and emotion that
> are doing the real work.
>
> When the spell doesn't work, it is because you are already
> maintaining a counter-spell(s) that are blocking it.
>
> You _are_ a magickal being and everything you have, are, and
> experience is the result of magick. This is the Truth that most
> schools of magick are unaware of, and why their methods don't
> work.
>
> The present reality/condition you want to change is something
> you have created already, however unwittingly, with magick.
>
> Often the problem is at the abstract spell level. For example,
> you may believe that you are unworthy and don't deserve a good
> life.
>
> Spells are beliefs. Your beliefs, the spells you are
> maintaining, and the reasons for them, are in the background
> of your conscious mind. In order to delete or change a spell,
> you have to face it and assume the responsibility for it and
> contemplate the reasons your whole self adopted it in the first
> place.
If this is true, it is not to be wondered that none of the people
I have met who call themselves magicians or sorcerers or warlocks
or witches or sorceresses or wizards or mages or whatever can
do any magick to speak of, including making good lives for
themselves.
That is the pivotal consideration, I think. If your magick can't
give you a good life, it is worth less than pig dung.
I am still learning to meditate and it is the best thing to happen
to me in a long while. I had a friend who was into TM and they said
the same thing and tried to get me into it. I wish I had taken them
up on it.
Tho
Ren
> [Earth Air Fire Water]
Spirit, Air, Fire, Water, and Earth.
Mind, Lungs, Solar Plexus, Intestines, Thighs.
> See? That's the reason you have no magickal skills, ren. You look
> to academics who have no magickal skills for insight into magick.
You are ignorantly insulting me for being academic and reading books.
Insight is a skill so there is no skill for insight.
> Real magicians call people like you "book mages", because all you
> can do is cite useless information from academics.
> And I can prove you don't know any magick at all, easily. I do it
> just by posting here. Clearly, you'd do anything to get rid of me.
> You even go so far as to tell malicious lies about me, sacrificing
> what little credibility you had.
I'm sacrificing all right. Just look at your name to see just what I'm
sacrificing. Just remember that when you take yourself into the other
world that it was you that came after me. It was you that attacked me.
My conscience is clear. You have come here of your own free will. I am
not forcing you to stay here. You constantly repeat that as well.
> If you had any magickal skills I'd be gone. After all, I am just
> a beginner.
You assume what my magickal goal is. You incorrectly assume that I
would use my magickal skills to make you go away. Heh, heh. Would you
bet your life on that?
You seem to want to bet your life on the most worthless of
assumptions.
Hope
> On 2009-03-01, in <jnvp76xv96....@magick.net> Evergreen
>
> <sidneyla...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> > There are many ways to cast spells. The essential elements are
> > intent, ideation, emotion, and imagination.
>
> > These were symbolized by ancient mages as:
>
> > Earth Air Fire Water
> >http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/897ad7c16
>
> > You have the idea of what you want, the emotions and imaginings
> > that belong to it, and the intent, the Will, to make them a
> > reality.
>
> That is the best explanation for the magickal significance of
> the Earth, Air, Fire, and Water symbols I have ever run across.
>
> All the other stuff about them is great to talk about and sounds
> so wonderful, but you can't do anything with them. Good for
> poetry and playing the role of a magician, but not for doing
> real magick.
>
> > If you have been misled by the ignorant or the deceitful,
> > you will will wrap these essential spell elements in various
> > costumes: Prayer to some 'supernatural' being(s) or elaborate
> > rituals based on the assumption that magick is some kind of
> > invisible technology.
>
> Oy!
>
>
>
>
>
> > Magick as a Supernatural Technology
> >http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/2667fd32f
There is probably not much else to do it that drawer but meditate and
plot dryer escapes.
Hope
>
> See? That's the reason you have no magickal skills, ren. You look
> to academics who have no magickal skills for insight into magick.
>
> Real magicians call people like you "book mages", because all you
> can do is cite useless information from academics.
> Unlike you, I am going to back up my accusations with real evidence:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/6c67697dbac78683
>
Sidneystone, the Google Mage!
You're simply substituting the internet for the books. And you're too
self-deluded to see that YOU are doing everything you say proves
someone is not a real magician or sage. You're canceling yourself out
with every post you think demeans others. And of course to the very
end you will be blaming everyone else for your impotent misery.
Evergreen
If the above makes as little sense to you as it does to me, you'll
find the reason why here:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/6c67697dbac78683
Evergreen
> On 2009-03-01, in <jnvp76x...@magick.net> Evergreen
><sidne...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>> There are many ways to cast spells. The essential elements are
>> intent, ideation, emotion, and imagination.
>>
>> These were symbolized by ancient mages as:
>>
>> Earth Air Fire Water
>> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/897ad7c16
>> b5d365e Message-ID: <orps46x...@amma.net>
>>
>> You have the idea of what you want, the emotions and imaginings
>> that belong to it, and the intent, the Will, to make them a
>> reality.
>
> That is the best explanation for the magickal significance of
> the Earth, Air, Fire, and Water symbols I have ever run across.
>
> All the other stuff about them is great to talk about and sounds
> so wonderful, but you can't do anything with them. Good for
> poetry and playing the role of a magician, but not for doing
> real magick.
What passes for magick in the modern world is mostly theatrical
nonsense based on the work of academics who are and were fumbling
in the dark.
If it worked like its practicioners say it does there wouldn't
be any physical science or christianity, or any other religion
left in the world.
Got that right.
Anyone looking for a magick teacher should first of all examine
the prospective teacher's personal life. If he/she doesn't have
a good life, look elsewhere. _Run_.
That's why most of the supposed magicians (by whatever name) on the
internet hide their identities. To avoid that kind of scrutiny.
>
> I am still learning to meditate and it is the best thing to happen
> to me in a long while. I had a friend who was into TM and they said
> the same thing and tried to get me into it. I wish I had taken them
> up on it.
>
> Tho
Good to hear from you, Tho. Keep it up. Be patient. Looking within
is the key to _everything_.
sar.chasm
> "Evergreen" <sidne...@nospam.invalid> retwisted scientology:
>
[shilling available on shill-per-view]
sar.chasm
> "Troigan Tho" <per...@place.invalid> shilled:
> > "Evergreen" <sidneyla...@nospam.invalid> called in a shill:
>
> [shilling available on shill-per-view]
>
>There is probably not much else to do it that drawer but meditate and
>plot dryer escapes.
>
Must be a weak position if it needs such obvious shill support.
Evergreen
>> There are many ways to cast spells. The essential elements are
>> intent, ideation, emotion, and imagination.
>
> No Sidney, those are terms you learned from Psychiatry in an
> attempt to understand and treat yourself. These are terms
> applied to self mutilators, psychotics, and people with
> suicidal tendencies.
Oh my. Ren has really gone off the deep end again.
"intent", "emotion", and "imagination" are common English words
with definitions known to every literate person.
"Ideation" isn't as common but the meaning is obvious to any
educated person:
i.de.ate (d-t)
v. i.de.at.ed, i.de.at.ing, i.de.ates
v.tr.
To form an idea of; imagine or conceive: "Such
characters represent a grotesquely blown-up
aspect of an ideal man . . . if not realizable,
capable of being ideated" Anthony Burgess.
v.intr.
To conceive mental images; think.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ideation
None of those words have any connection to self-mutilation, psychosis,
and suicide that I can see. No mention of them in the dictionaries...
Those connections exist in ren's mind.
'Ideation' means 'thinking' or 'conception'. I guess ren's mind
is so full of violent imagery that to him thinking and mutilation
and psychosis and suicidal tendencies are the same thing.
I encountered the word in a book somewhere. I guess ren encountered
it at his psychiatrist's office, since he seems to think that's where
it comes from. And from his words above one can well imagine that he's
spent a lot of time in psychiatrists' offices.
I simply chose the word "ideation" because it rhymes with the others.
"Thinking" does not.
Want to learn more about this wackjob who hides behind the internet
and the alias "ren"?:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/2b550a31997edf62
[delete]
Hope
>
> i.de.ate (d-t)
> v. i.de.at.ed, i.de.at.ing, i.de.ates
> v.tr.
> To form an idea of; imagine or conceive: "Such
> characters represent a grotesquely blown-up
> aspect of an ideal man . . "
Yeah, that sounds like your ideation of you all right.
> Want to learn more about this wackjob who hides behind the internet
> and the alias "ren"?:
No...for the fiftieth time.
When's the last time you were able to detach from Ren for more than a
few hours, sid? Maybe you should rethink your position on
psychiatrists' offices.
Evergreen
>
[delete]
> "Ideation" isn't as common but the meaning is obvious to any
> educated person:
>
> i.de.ate (d-t)
> v. i.de.at.ed, i.de.at.ing, i.de.ates
> v.tr.
> To form an idea of; imagine or conceive: "Such
> characters represent a grotesquely blown-up
> aspect of an ideal man . . . if not realizable,
> capable of being ideated" Anthony Burgess.
> v.intr.
> To conceive mental images; think.
>
> http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ideation
Finally remembered:
"The Life of Reason" George Santayana
"The Life of Reason is the happy marriage of two elements-impulse
and ideation-which if wholly divorced would reduce man to a brute
or to a maniac. The rational animal is generated by the union of
these two monsters. He is constituted by ideas which have ceased
to be visionary and actions which have ceased to be vain."
This five volume masterpiece of philosophy kept me spellbound for
many weeks.
sarchasm
> "Evergreen" <sidne...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>
> [delete]
>
"Another old favorite [hand gesture] is the fig. Try this one out for
yourself: make a first, then stick your thumb between your middle and index
finger. In other places and other eras, people have tended to see less of a
nose, more of a vagina. And apparently vaginas "mean" something about as bad
as penises, so another insulting gesture was born, euphemistically dubbed
"the fig." In ancient Greece, the fig was not used to offend god or man,
but to dispel black magic and deflect the evil eye. Some speculate that the
ancients believed overt sexual displays - such as flashing the fig - would
distract dangerous spirits. This protective meaning of the gesture still has
adherents today in Portugal and Brazil, where good luck charms often depict
the sign."
-- from http://blogs.static.mentalfloss.com/blogs/archives/22179.html
>
>kept me spellbound for many weeks.
>
> Sid
Day Brown
> "Evergreen" <sidne...@nospam.invalid> trolled himself:
>> "Evergreen" <sidne...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>> [delete]
>>
>
> "Another old favorite [hand gesture] is the fig. Try this one out for
> yourself: make a first, then stick your thumb between your middle and
> index finger. In other places and other eras, people have tended to see
> less of a nose, more of a vagina. And apparently vaginas "mean" something
> about as bad as penises, so another insulting gesture was born,
> euphemistically dubbed
> "the fig." In ancient Greece, the fig was not used to offend god or man,
> but to dispel black magic and deflect the evil eye. Some speculate that
> the ancients believed overt sexual displays - such as flashing the fig -
> would distract dangerous spirits. This protective meaning of the gesture
> still has adherents today in Portugal and Brazil, where good luck charms
> often depict the sign."
Always glad to read of sources. Epictetus makes reference to someone who got
angry at being pointed out with the middle finger.
--
I aint lost it. I never had it.