All new iPhones might be forced to have a removable battery (Android too)

[Arlen Holder]

Dateline today...

While I love my new $100 Moto G7 I wish the battery was user replaceable
like my $130 LG Stylo 3 Plus was, and my Samsung Galaxy S3 before that.

Based on this news from yesterday & today, the laws may be such that
Apple's bullshit stance on "waste" recycling (that only an apologist would
stoop so low as to believe) will actually be the truth for once, if this
new upcoming reputed law ever gets enacted (for all phones, Android
included).

While the rumored law is a long way off by all accounts, what it would mean
could be that all new phones sold in the EU might be forced to be far more
recycling friendly on both the batteries and the charging equipment.

o All new iPhones might be forced to have a removable battery
<https://www.techradar.com/uk/news/all-new-iphones-might-be-forced-to-have-a-removable-battery>

"all brands wanting to sell in the EU would have to make sure each
phone has a battery that can be removed by the user - and that
even would include Apple, the company most resistant to legislation
around its iPhone designs, if attempts to make it change ports
in the past is anything to go by."

o MacRumors: Leaked Documents Suggest Apple Could Be Forced to Build
iPhones With User-Removable Batteries in Europe
<https://www.macrumors.com/2020/02/27/apple-removable-batteries-europe/>
"any smartphone brand wanting to sell a handheld in the EU,
including Apple, would have to ensure that every device
on the market has a user-removable battery"

"Apple has always made its iPhones with non-removable batteries"

In addition:
"The European Parliament wants one charger to fit all smartphones,
tablets, and other portable devices, with the likely candidate
to be USB-C."

Notice that Apple has the "courage" to remove the useful headphone jack,
but no courage at all when it comes to making the battery removable.
--
NOTE: I point out Apple's hypocrisy because Apple MARKETING is the one who
makes a big deal of their recycling stance, which, as is all things Apple,
more (admittedly clever) marketing than truth, IMHO.

[Boris]

Arlen Holder <arlen.geo...@is.invalid> wrote in
news:r3a23n$ia2$1...@news.mixmin.net:

> Dateline today...
>
> While I love my new $100 Moto G7 I wish the battery was user
> replaceable like my $130 LG Stylo 3 Plus was, and my Samsung Galaxy S3
> before that.

I'm still using my S3 from 2012. I went through two Anker high capacity
batteries, and then Anker stopped making them for my S3. I'm back using
an original S3 battery that I kept in my nightstand, and it charges fine
every night. Go figure.

I'm familiar with more modern smart phones, and have a few (permanent
batteries, which I don't care for), but my S3 is still what I take with
me everyday. I use it primarily to receive spam calls and to text with
the kids. I sort of wish it would die so I can move on.

[Alan Baker]

Because removing the headphone jack removed a major problem with
breakage, Liar. I agree there are some advantages to the user

As for recycling, Apple has built robotic systems specifically to break
down its products for recycling.

And amazingly, customers don't really seem to have much of a problem
with iPhones not having removable batteries, Liar; not if we go by that
inconvenient metric (for you) of sales, anyway.

:-)

[Carlos E. R.]

On 28/02/2020 07.21, Alan Baker wrote:
> On 2020-02-27 7:40 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
>> Dateline today...

...

> Because removing the headphone jack removed a major problem with
> breakage, Liar. I agree there are some advantages to the user
>
> As for recycling, Apple has built robotic systems specifically to break
> down its products for recycling.
>
> And amazingly, customers don't really seem to have much of a problem
> with iPhones not having removable batteries, Liar; not if we go by that
> inconvenient metric (for you) of sales, anyway.
>
> :-)

This is not true.

Customers buy phones without easily replaceable batteries simply because
there are no alternatives. Of course we want replaceable batteries, and
not only on phones.

And yes, my phone has an earphone jack and FM radio. Very happy about
that and no problems with it.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[nospam]

In article <1n8nigx...@minas-tirith.valinor>, Carlos E. R.

<robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:

>
> > Because removing the headphone jack removed a major problem with
> > breakage, Liar. I agree there are some advantages to the user
> >
> > As for recycling, Apple has built robotic systems specifically to break
> > down its products for recycling.
> >
> > And amazingly, customers don't really seem to have much of a problem
> > with iPhones not having removable batteries, Liar; not if we go by that
> > inconvenient metric (for you) of sales, anyway.
> >
> > :-)
>
> This is not true.

it very much is true.

> Customers buy phones without easily replaceable batteries simply because
> there are no alternatives. Of course we want replaceable batteries, and
> not only on phones.

there are alternatives, but they don't sell, so clearly they're not
important to most people.

the battery normally outlasts the phone. people get a new phone before
the battery needs to be replaced. it's a non-issue.

also, the batteries *are* replaceable, it might require a screwdriver
rather than a fingernail to get to it, but for something that's done
maybe once in 3-5 years, that's not an issue whatsoever.

> And yes, my phone has an earphone jack and FM radio. Very happy about
> that and no problems with it.

all phones have a headphone jack and almost always include headphones
in the box. older phones use an analog jack and most newer phones use a
digital jack, either usb-c or lightning. *many* people use bluetooth,
which is far more convenient than a dangling wire.

fm radio is not a high demand feature because there are *far* more
stations are available over the internet, along with alternatives, such
as music streaming, podcasts and much more.

fm radio also requires using analog headphones for the antenna, which
means it won't work with bluetooth headphones or connected to a sound
system or just sitting on a table using the internal speakers.

[123456789]

Carlos E. R.. wrote:

> Of course we want replaceable batteries...

You sure? I find it an advantage that when
I drop my phone I don't have to pick up 3
pieces, reassemble, and reboot. Look on
the bright side... ;)

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 28 Feb 2020 12:04:33 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> This is not true.

Hi Carlos,

*Claiming "liar" is tacit admittance apologists accept logic as stated*.
o It's exactly what people always do who own imaginary belief systems.

I've studied apologists, who always seem to have no adult response to logic
they don't like, just as fifth-grade bullies have no response to the fact
the Easter Bunny doesn't exist... so they incessantly claim "Liar liar
pants on fire" when they're confronted with facts that scare them because
logic instantly _destroys_ their underlying imaginary belief systems.

Their hate-filled vitriolic instant and only response to logic is to deny
that facts exist; this is classic of people with imaginary belief systems.

Their imaginary belief systems are so fragile that they must incessantly
prove to be _immune_ to facts, in order to maintain, in their own minds,
their wholly imaginary belief systems (just like flat earthers do).

Claiming "liar" is tacit admittance apologists accept the facts as stated.
o They're indicating an imaginary belief system _threatened_ by logic.

> Customers buy phones without easily replaceable batteries simply because
> there are no alternatives. Of course we want replaceable batteries, and
> not only on phones.

I loved my Samsung Galaxy S3, where I had external chargers on the wall so
that I could charge as many batteries off the phone as I liked, one of
which was over 7,000mAh in capacity, where I used it extensively for days
of backcountry camping navigation (many of which were reported here).
<https://youtu.be/0nQKO2vGs1w>

When I bought the handful of $130 8-core 32GB LG Stylo 3 Plus phablets at
Costco on Christmas Day two years ago, one of the rationales I used when
shopping was that the battery _had_ to be removable.

Unfortunately, more and more phones are stuck with the unremovable battery,
so this latest $100 8-core 64GB 4GBRAM Motorola G7 is stuck with the
battery it was born with, but at least I won't have to prematurely replace
it after being faced with the stark unenviable choice Apple owners enjoy of

*YOU MUST REPLACE THE BATTERY PREMATURELY*, or,
o Forever live with unacceptable performance, or,
o Forever live with unacceptable stability.
(You must choose one and only one of those options!)

This stark fact, in and of itself, alone proves Apple's highly touted
stance on recyclablity is pure bullshit.

It's great marketing, but just like Apple's highly touted stance on
privacy, it's rather clever MARKETING (as Apple's privacy is easily proven
to be no better than any other OEM's privacy, as we showed many times).

> And yes, my phone has an earphone jack and FM radio. Very happy about
> that and no problems with it.

Not only does your phone likely have a headphone jack & FM radio, but you
aren't faced with the stark choice of having to prematurely replace the
battery, and you can replace your screen & battery by whomever you want to
without being faced with the repair-prison tricks Apple foists upon its
(admittedly loyal) customer base.

You also likely have an expansion slot that can handle hundreds of
gigabytes. And a non-proprietary cable format. And you can have full
functionality connected to a computer without needing to install the OEM's
bloatware that literally _removes_ functionality from your file transfer
setup.

And, most likely, you have RAM to spare, where Apple's stance on RAM is
also pure (rather clever) marketing bullshit, when it comes down to how
much they give you versus how much you get on Android that is available to
programs.

In the end, Apple's stance on recycling is pure (rather clever) bullshit,
as is almost everything (e.g., privacy & safety) that Apple highly touts.

Since you can't make those ungodly profit margins off of intelligent
customers, what Apple has honed is the ability to sell to people who are
extremely gullible who are not able to discern the difference between
marketing bullshit and actual facts.

It's one reason they line up outside the store on opening day with their
old phones in their hands which they can't wait to ditch in favor of
whatever Marketing foists upon them in the latest MARKETING campaign.

Even my old Samsung Galaxy S3 has more app functionality than any iPhone
ever sold, which the Apple marketing people (wisely) keep mum on of course.

--
I would have kept my S3 except for the fact it got crushed in an accident.

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-02-28 3:04 a.m., Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 28/02/2020 07.21, Alan Baker wrote:
>> On 2020-02-27 7:40 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
>>> Dateline today...
>
> ...
>
>> Because removing the headphone jack removed a major problem with
>> breakage, Liar. I agree there are some advantages to the user
>>
>> As for recycling, Apple has built robotic systems specifically to break
>> down its products for recycling.
>>
>> And amazingly, customers don't really seem to have much of a problem
>> with iPhones not having removable batteries, Liar; not if we go by that
>> inconvenient metric (for you) of sales, anyway.
>>
>> :-)
>
> This is not true.
>
> Customers buy phones without easily replaceable batteries simply because
> there are no alternatives. Of course we want replaceable batteries, and
> not only on phones.

Do you agree that there are phones available both with and without
removable batteries.

[Alan Baker]

And you're back to lying again...

[Carlos E. R.]

On 28/02/2020 13.29, nospam wrote:
> In article <1n8nigx...@minas-tirith.valinor>, Carlos E. R.
> <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>>
>>> Because removing the headphone jack removed a major problem with
>>> breakage, Liar. I agree there are some advantages to the user
>>>
>>> As for recycling, Apple has built robotic systems specifically to break
>>> down its products for recycling.
>>>
>>> And amazingly, customers don't really seem to have much of a problem
>>> with iPhones not having removable batteries, Liar; not if we go by that
>>> inconvenient metric (for you) of sales, anyway.
>>>
>>> :-)
>>
>> This is not true.
>
> it very much is true.

Nay.

>> Customers buy phones without easily replaceable batteries simply because
>> there are no alternatives. Of course we want replaceable batteries, and
>> not only on phones.
>
> there are alternatives, but they don't sell, so clearly they're not
> important to most people.

No, you are interpreting it wrong. We do want replaceable batteries, but
we also want other features, like such camera, cpu, memory, display,
glass, power, size, sensors, etc. In the end, we select the one with
glued battery because we have no choice of getting the same features and
a replaceable battery.

>
> the battery normally outlasts the phone. people get a new phone before
> the battery needs to be replaced. it's a non-issue.
>
> also, the batteries *are* replaceable, it might require a screwdriver
> rather than a fingernail to get to it, but for something that's done
> maybe once in 3-5 years, that's not an issue whatsoever.

That's not "user replaceable".

I have one device that the battery is glued, and removing it safely is
not trivial. The trick seems to be to pass a dental floss behind it.
Then I have to open the battery, remove the electronics, and solder them
to the new battery. Don't argue, it just is. :-D

For a regular person, replacing the battery means going to a professional.


And our parliament agrees with us and will pass a law about it. No more
discussion. :-P

>
>> And yes, my phone has an earphone jack and FM radio. Very happy about
>> that and no problems with it.
>
> all phones have a headphone jack and almost always include headphones
> in the box. older phones use an analog jack and most newer phones use a
> digital jack, either usb-c or lightning. *many* people use bluetooth,
> which is far more convenient than a dangling wire.
>
> fm radio is not a high demand feature because there are *far* more
> stations are available over the internet, along with alternatives, such
> as music streaming, podcasts and much more.

Yeah, I know you say so. And you know that many do not agree with you.

>
> fm radio also requires using analog headphones for the antenna, which
> means it won't work with bluetooth headphones or connected to a sound
> system or just sitting on a table using the internal speakers.
>

Well, which is why we need a jack and cable and BT headphones will not
work on all cases.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[Carlos E. R.]

There is that :-D

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[Carlos E. R.]

On 28/02/2020 16.53, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Feb 2020 12:04:33 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>> This is not true.
>
> Hi Carlos,

..

>> And yes, my phone has an earphone jack and FM radio. Very happy about
>> that and no problems with it.
>
> Not only does your phone likely have a headphone jack & FM radio, but you
> aren't faced with the stark choice of having to prematurely replace the
> battery, and you can replace your screen & battery by whomever you want to
> without being faced with the repair-prison tricks Apple foists upon its
> (admittedly loyal) customer base.

Not easily replaceable in mine. Needs following a video to know what
screws to undo and what wires to remove and how. A Motorola G6+ and a X
play.

Also I have an Asus tablet with a broken glass that can not be replaced
(I asked at a shop). The tablet works, with an external mouse.

Not a high end tablet. I never buy high end powerful tablets or phones.

It is not only Apple that makes repairs difficult. You know I don't own
any Apple hardware, but I don't do war on them :-P

(and not reading any of those apple groups you posted to)

So I don't care what apple does. I care about my mobile devices, all
android except an ebook. I want easily replaceable batteries and spares.
If it needs a law to force sense, so be it.


--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[Carlos E. R.]

On 28/02/2020 18.09, Alan Baker wrote:
> On 2020-02-28 3:04 a.m., Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 28/02/2020 07.21, Alan Baker wrote:
>>> On 2020-02-27 7:40 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
>>>> Dateline today...
>>
>> ...
>>
>>> Because removing the headphone jack removed a major problem with
>>> breakage, Liar. I agree there are some advantages to the user
>>>
>>> As for recycling, Apple has built robotic systems specifically to break
>>> down its products for recycling.
>>>
>>> And amazingly, customers don't really seem to have much of a problem
>>> with iPhones not having removable batteries, Liar; not if we go by that
>>> inconvenient metric (for you) of sales, anyway.
>>>
>>> :-)
>>
>> This is not true.
>>
>> Customers buy phones without easily replaceable batteries simply because
>> there are no alternatives. Of course we want replaceable batteries, and
>> not only on phones.
>
> Do you agree that there are phones available both with and without
> removable batteries.

Of course, but not the ones I want.



--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[Alan Baker]

So there is some magic force that prevents companies from building a
phone with those features AND a removable battery?

Is that your claim?

>
>>
>> the battery normally outlasts the phone. people get a new phone before
>> the battery needs to be replaced. it's a non-issue.
>>
>> also, the batteries *are* replaceable, it might require a screwdriver
>> rather than a fingernail to get to it, but for something that's done
>> maybe once in 3-5 years, that's not an issue whatsoever.
>
> That's not "user replaceable".

If you have to use a screwdriver, that makes it not "user-replaceable"?

>
> I have one device that the battery is glued, and removing it safely is
> not trivial. The trick seems to be to pass a dental floss behind it.
> Then I have to open the battery, remove the electronics, and solder them
> to the new battery. Don't argue, it just is. :-D
>
> For a regular person, replacing the battery means going to a professional.

For some regular people that might be true.

>
>
> And our parliament agrees with us and will pass a law about it. No more
> discussion. :-P

The law hasn't passed yet.

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-02-28 11:06 a.m., Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 28/02/2020 16.53, Arlen Holder wrote:
>> On Fri, 28 Feb 2020 12:04:33 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>
>>> This is not true.
>>
>> Hi Carlos,
>
> ..
>
>>> And yes, my phone has an earphone jack and FM radio. Very happy about
>>> that and no problems with it.
>>
>> Not only does your phone likely have a headphone jack & FM radio, but you
>> aren't faced with the stark choice of having to prematurely replace the
>> battery, and you can replace your screen & battery by whomever you want to
>> without being faced with the repair-prison tricks Apple foists upon its
>> (admittedly loyal) customer base.
>
> Not easily replaceable in mine. Needs following a video to know what
> screws to undo and what wires to remove and how. A Motorola G6+ and a X
> play.

So having to follow a video makes something "not easy"?

>
> Also I have an Asus tablet with a broken glass that can not be replaced
> (I asked at a shop). The tablet works, with an external mouse.
>
> Not a high end tablet. I never buy high end powerful tablets or phones.
>
> It is not only Apple that makes repairs difficult. You know I don't own
> any Apple hardware, but I don't do war on them :-P
>
> (and not reading any of those apple groups you posted to)
>
> So I don't care what apple does. I care about my mobile devices, all
> android except an ebook. I want easily replaceable batteries and spares.
> If it needs a law to force sense, so be it.

Why not just let the marketplace decide?

[Alan Baker]

So therefore, you want to force manufacturers to satisfy you...

...and not the majority of their customers.

Got it now.

:-)

[nospam]

In article <964oigx...@minas-tirith.valinor>, Carlos E. R.

<robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:

> >>> Because removing the headphone jack removed a major problem with
> >>> breakage, Liar. I agree there are some advantages to the user
> >>>
> >>> As for recycling, Apple has built robotic systems specifically to break
> >>> down its products for recycling.
> >>>
> >>> And amazingly, customers don't really seem to have much of a problem
> >>> with iPhones not having removable batteries, Liar; not if we go by that
> >>> inconvenient metric (for you) of sales, anyway.
> >>>
> >>> :-)
> >>
> >> This is not true.
> >
> > it very much is true.
>
> Nay.

it's true. just look at what people are actually buying. very few care
about internal batteries.

> >> Customers buy phones without easily replaceable batteries simply because
> >> there are no alternatives. Of course we want replaceable batteries, and
> >> not only on phones.
> >
> > there are alternatives, but they don't sell, so clearly they're not
> > important to most people.
>
> No, you are interpreting it wrong. We do want replaceable batteries, but
> we also want other features, like such camera, cpu, memory, display,
> glass, power, size, sensors, etc. In the end, we select the one with
> glued battery because we have no choice of getting the same features and
> a replaceable battery.

all batteries are replaceable. the question is whether it's a snap off
cover or if it's internal and requires tools.

companies make products that they think will sell, and those are
products with internal batteries more so than with a snap off cover.

> > the battery normally outlasts the phone. people get a new phone before
> > the battery needs to be replaced. it's a non-issue.
> >
> > also, the batteries *are* replaceable, it might require a screwdriver
> > rather than a fingernail to get to it, but for something that's done
> > maybe once in 3-5 years, that's not an issue whatsoever.
>
> That's not "user replaceable".

of course it is.

do you not have a screwdriver?? if not, they're a couple of bucks.

and that's only if you keep the phone longer than the battery lasts.
typically people replace their phone every 3-5 years, and the battery
should still be usable.

> I have one device that the battery is glued, and removing it safely is
> not trivial. The trick seems to be to pass a dental floss behind it.
> Then I have to open the battery, remove the electronics, and solder them
> to the new battery. Don't argue, it just is. :-D
>
> For a regular person, replacing the battery means going to a professional.

in that particular case it would, but for something done once in 3-5
years, it doesn't matter.

also, having a professional do it means that it won't be a knockoff
noname battery and if they damage something in the process, it's on
them to make it right.

meanwhile, the majority of phones, laptops, cameras, etc., with
internal batteries are *not* glued and their batteries are easily
replaced with appropriate tools. often, the replacement batteries are
sold *with* such tools.

<https://www.amazon.com/HDCKU-Replacement-EB-BG930ABE-Instructions-Warra
nty/dp/B07L5FQS36/>
HDCKU Battery Replacement Kit for Samsung Galaxy S7 SM-G930
(EB-BG930ABE) with Full Repair Tools and Instructions

> And our parliament agrees with us and will pass a law about it. No more
> discussion. :-P

highly unlikely, and they should find something more important to do
than dictate to companies outside of their rule as to how to design
products.

> >> And yes, my phone has an earphone jack and FM radio. Very happy about
> >> that and no problems with it.
> >
> > all phones have a headphone jack and almost always include headphones
> > in the box. older phones use an analog jack and most newer phones use a
> > digital jack, either usb-c or lightning. *many* people use bluetooth,
> > which is far more convenient than a dangling wire.
> >
> > fm radio is not a high demand feature because there are *far* more
> > stations are available over the internet, along with alternatives, such
> > as music streaming, podcasts and much more.
>
> Yeah, I know you say so. And you know that many do not agree with you.

not very many, given that almost no phones these days have an fm radio.

it's an *extremely* low demand feature, especially with the popularity
of bluetooth headphones, which precludes being able to use an fm radio.

what *is* in high demand are music streaming services, such as spotify.

> > fm radio also requires using analog headphones for the antenna, which
> > means it won't work with bluetooth headphones or connected to a sound
> > system or just sitting on a table using the internal speakers.
>
> Well, which is why we need a jack and cable and BT headphones will not
> work on all cases.

nothing is perfect and guaranteed to work in *every* possible case.

analog headphones won't work when the jack fails or is clogged with
dirt, the plug on the cable is damaged or the wires fray.

[Carlos E. R.]

On 28/02/2020 19.56, Jolly Roger wrote:

> On 2020-02-28, Carlos E. R. <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 28/02/2020 07.21, Alan Baker wrote:
>>> On 2020-02-27 7:40 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
>>>> Dateline today...
>>
>> ...
>>
>>> Because removing the headphone jack removed a major problem with
>>> breakage, Liar. I agree there are some advantages to the user
>>>
>>> As for recycling, Apple has built robotic systems specifically to break
>>> down its products for recycling.
>>>
>>> And amazingly, customers don't really seem to have much of a problem
>>> with iPhones not having removable batteries, Liar; not if we go by that
>>> inconvenient metric (for you) of sales, anyway.
>>>
>>> :-)
>>
>> This is not true.
>>
>> Customers buy phones without easily replaceable batteries simply because
>> there are no alternatives. Of course we want replaceable batteries, and
>> not only on phones.
>

> Nah. You don't speak for everyone. When smartphone batteries have lasted
> 3-5 years, as mine have since the 1990s, there isn't as much of a need
> for them to be user-replaceable. Regardless, I've replaced all of my
> iPhone batteries myself, and Apple hasn't ever tried to stop me. If and
> when that becomes more of a hassle than it's worth, I'll have absolutely
> no problem paying Apple or any third-party Apple-authorized service
> technician to do it.

>
>> And yes, my phone has an earphone jack and FM radio. Very happy about
>> that and no problems with it.
>

> Both of those would be useless to me. Again, you don't speak for
> everyone. In fact I believe you're in the tiny minority.
>

Neither does Alan - but my parliament does :-P

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[Carlos E. R.]

Certainly.

>
> ...and not the majority of their customers.
>

Your opinion.

> Got it now.
>
> :-)


--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[Carlos E. R.]

On 28/02/2020 20.30, Alan Baker wrote:
> On 2020-02-28 11:06 a.m., Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 28/02/2020 16.53, Arlen Holder wrote:
>>> On Fri, 28 Feb 2020 12:04:33 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>
>>>> This is not true.
>>>
>>> Hi Carlos,
>>
>> ..
>>
>>>> And yes, my phone has an earphone jack and FM radio. Very happy about
>>>> that and no problems with it.
>>>
>>> Not only does your phone likely have a headphone jack & FM radio, but
>>> you
>>> aren't faced with the stark choice of having to prematurely replace the
>>> battery, and you can replace your screen & battery by whomever you
>>> want to
>>> without being faced with the repair-prison tricks Apple foists upon its
>>> (admittedly loyal) customer base.
>>
>> Not easily replaceable in mine. Needs following a video to know what
>> screws to undo and what wires to remove and how. A Motorola G6+ and a X
>> play.
>
> So having to follow a video makes something "not easy"?

Certainly. I'm not a lay person, either.

>
>>
>> Also I have an Asus tablet with a broken glass that can not be replaced
>> (I asked at a shop). The tablet works, with an external mouse.
>>
>> Not a high end tablet. I never buy high end powerful tablets or phones.
>>
>> It is not only Apple that makes repairs difficult. You know I don't own
>> any Apple hardware, but I don't do war on them :-P
>>
>> (and not reading any of those apple groups you posted to)
>>
>> So I don't care what apple does. I care about my mobile devices, all
>> android except an ebook. I want easily replaceable batteries and spares.
>> If it needs a law to force sense, so be it.
>
> Why not just let the marketplace decide?

As long as it follows the law... :-P

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[Carlos E. R.]

Your reading skills are failing :-P

>
>>
>>>
>>> the battery normally outlasts the phone. people get a new phone before
>>> the battery needs to be replaced. it's a non-issue.
>>>
>>> also, the batteries *are* replaceable, it might require a screwdriver
>>> rather than a fingernail to get to it, but for something that's done
>>> maybe once in 3-5 years, that's not an issue whatsoever.
>>
>> That's not "user replaceable".
>
> If you have to use a screwdriver, that makes it not "user-replaceable"?

Sometimes.

>
>>
>> I have one device that the battery is glued, and removing it safely is
>> not trivial. The trick seems to be to pass a dental floss behind it.
>> Then I have to open the battery, remove the electronics, and solder them
>> to the new battery. Don't argue, it just is. :-D
>>
>> For a regular person, replacing the battery means going to a
>> professional.
>
> For some regular people that might be true.
>
>>
>>
>> And our parliament agrees with us and will pass a law about it. No more
>> discussion. :-P
>
> The law hasn't passed yet.

Give it time.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[Carlos E. R.]

On 28/02/2020 21.16, nospam wrote:
> In article <964oigx...@minas-tirith.valinor>, Carlos E. R.
> <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>>> Because removing the headphone jack removed a major problem with
>>>>> breakage, Liar. I agree there are some advantages to the user
>>>>>
>>>>> As for recycling, Apple has built robotic systems specifically to break
>>>>> down its products for recycling.
>>>>>
>>>>> And amazingly, customers don't really seem to have much of a problem
>>>>> with iPhones not having removable batteries, Liar; not if we go by that
>>>>> inconvenient metric (for you) of sales, anyway.
>>>>>
>>>>> :-)
>>>>
>>>> This is not true.
>>>
>>> it very much is true.
>>
>> Nay.
>
> it's true. just look at what people are actually buying. very few care
> about internal batteries.

Wrong. They care, but have no alternative.
I care very much about the battery, but I can not buy the phone I want
with user replaceable batteryy

>
>>>> Customers buy phones without easily replaceable batteries simply because
>>>> there are no alternatives. Of course we want replaceable batteries, and
>>>> not only on phones.
>>>
>>> there are alternatives, but they don't sell, so clearly they're not
>>> important to most people.
>>
>> No, you are interpreting it wrong. We do want replaceable batteries, but
>> we also want other features, like such camera, cpu, memory, display,
>> glass, power, size, sensors, etc. In the end, we select the one with
>> glued battery because we have no choice of getting the same features and
>> a replaceable battery.
>
> all batteries are replaceable. the question is whether it's a snap off
> cover or if it's internal and requires tools.

So, no user replaceable battery.

>
> companies make products that they think will sell, and those are
> products with internal batteries more so than with a snap off cover.
>
>>> the battery normally outlasts the phone. people get a new phone before
>>> the battery needs to be replaced. it's a non-issue.
>>>
>>> also, the batteries *are* replaceable, it might require a screwdriver
>>> rather than a fingernail to get to it, but for something that's done
>>> maybe once in 3-5 years, that's not an issue whatsoever.
>>
>> That's not "user replaceable".
>
> of course it is.
>

No.

> do you not have a screwdriver?? if not, they're a couple of bucks.
>

That does not matter.

> and that's only if you keep the phone longer than the battery lasts.
> typically people replace their phone every 3-5 years, and the battery
> should still be usable.
>
>> I have one device that the battery is glued, and removing it safely is
>> not trivial. The trick seems to be to pass a dental floss behind it.
>> Then I have to open the battery, remove the electronics, and solder them
>> to the new battery. Don't argue, it just is. :-D
>>
>> For a regular person, replacing the battery means going to a professional.
>
> in that particular case it would, but for something done once in 3-5
> years, it doesn't matter.
>

It does matter. It is quite difficult to replace, it is not plug and
play. And the correct battery is impossible to find.

> also, having a professional do it means that it won't be a knockoff
> noname battery and if they damage something in the process, it's on
> them to make it right.
>
> meanwhile, the majority of phones, laptops, cameras, etc., with
> internal batteries are *not* glued and their batteries are easily
> replaced with appropriate tools. often, the replacement batteries are
> sold *with* such tools.

Not in my phones. I have to remove antenna cables with a warning that
they can snap.

>
> <https://www.amazon.com/HDCKU-Replacement-EB-BG930ABE-Instructions-Warra
> nty/dp/B07L5FQS36/>
> HDCKU Battery Replacement Kit for Samsung Galaxy S7 SM-G930
> (EB-BG930ABE) with Full Repair Tools and Instructions
>
>> And our parliament agrees with us and will pass a law about it. No more
>> discussion. :-P
>
> highly unlikely, and they should find something more important to do
> than dictate to companies outside of their rule as to how to design
> products.
>

It is important to me and others.

>>>> And yes, my phone has an earphone jack and FM radio. Very happy about
>>>> that and no problems with it.
>>>
>>> all phones have a headphone jack and almost always include headphones
>>> in the box. older phones use an analog jack and most newer phones use a
>>> digital jack, either usb-c or lightning. *many* people use bluetooth,
>>> which is far more convenient than a dangling wire.
>>>
>>> fm radio is not a high demand feature because there are *far* more
>>> stations are available over the internet, along with alternatives, such
>>> as music streaming, podcasts and much more.
>>
>> Yeah, I know you say so. And you know that many do not agree with you.
>
> not very many, given that almost no phones these days have an fm radio.
>

I see many.

> it's an *extremely* low demand feature, especially with the popularity
> of bluetooth headphones, which precludes being able to use an fm radio.
>

Ha ha :-p

> what *is* in high demand are music streaming services, such as spotify.
>
>>> fm radio also requires using analog headphones for the antenna, which
>>> means it won't work with bluetooth headphones or connected to a sound
>>> system or just sitting on a table using the internal speakers.
>>
>> Well, which is why we need a jack and cable and BT headphones will not
>> work on all cases.
>
> nothing is perfect and guaranteed to work in *every* possible case.
>
> analog headphones won't work when the jack fails or is clogged with
> dirt, the plug on the cable is damaged or the wires fray.
>

Not my problem.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[Ned Latham]

Alan Baker wrote:
> Carlos E. R. wrote:
> > Alan Baker wrote:
> > > Carlos E. R. wrote:

> > > > Alan Baker wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > ...
> > > > >
> > > > > Because removing the headphone jack removed a major problem with
> > > > > breakage, Liar. I agree there are some advantages to the user
> > > > >
> > > > > As for recycling, Apple has built robotic systems specifically
> > > > > to break down its products for recycling.
> > > > >
> > > > > And amazingly, customers don't really seem to have much of a
> > > > > problem with iPhones not having removable batteries, Liar;
> > > > > not if we go by that inconvenient metric (for you) of sales,
> > > > > anyway.
> > > >

> > > > This is not true.
> > > >
> > > > Customers buy phones without easily replaceable batteries simply
> > > > because there are no alternatives. Of course we want replaceable
> > > > batteries, and not only on phones.
> > >
> > > Do you agree that there are phones available both with and without
> > > removable batteries.
> >
> > Of course, but not the ones I want.
>

> So therefore, you want manufacturers to satisfy you...

Right.

> ...and not the majority of their customers.

Wrong.

[Ned Latham]

Carlos E. R. wrote:
> 123456789 wrote:
> > Carlos E. R.. wrote:
> > >
> > > Of course we want replaceable batteries...
> >
> > You sure? I find it an advantage that when
> > I drop my phone I don't have to pick up 3
> > pieces, reassemble, and reboot. Look on
> > the bright side... ;)
>
> There is that :-D

Nah. What you do is not drop the 'phone.

[Ned Latham]

Alan Baker wrote:
> Carlos E. R. wrote:

----snip----

> > So I don't care what apple does. I care about my mobile devices,
> > all android except an ebook. I want easily replaceable batteries
> > and spares. If it needs a law to force sense, so be it.
>
> Why not just let the marketplace decide?

When big companies collude, the market gets no decision.

[nospam]

In article <slrnr5ivp9.2...@woden.valhalla.oz>, Ned Latham

<nedl...@woden.valhalla.oz> wrote:

> > > So I don't care what apple does. I care about my mobile devices,
> > > all android except an ebook. I want easily replaceable batteries
> > > and spares. If it needs a law to force sense, so be it.
> >
> > Why not just let the marketplace decide?
>
> When big companies collude, the market gets no decision.

the aren't colluding.

[nospam]

In article <hqaoigx...@minas-tirith.valinor>, Carlos E. R.

<robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:


> I care very much about the battery, but I can not buy the phone I want
> with user replaceable batteryy

not enough people like you that care to where it's worthwhile for
device makers to make such a phone.

> >> I have one device that the battery is glued, and removing it safely is
> >> not trivial. The trick seems to be to pass a dental floss behind it.
> >> Then I have to open the battery, remove the electronics, and solder them
> >> to the new battery. Don't argue, it just is. :-D
> >>
> >> For a regular person, replacing the battery means going to a professional.
> >
> > in that particular case it would, but for something done once in 3-5
> > years, it doesn't matter.
> >
>
> It does matter. It is quite difficult to replace, it is not plug and
> play. And the correct battery is impossible to find.

maybe that particular case, but nearly always, replacement batteries
are easily found, often with tools to open the phone.

this is one of many examples:

<https://www.amazon.com/HDCKU-Replacement-EB-BG930ABE-Instructions-Warra
nty/dp/B07L5FQS36/>
HDCKU Battery Replacement Kit for Samsung Galaxy S7 SM-G930
(EB-BG930ABE) with Full Repair Tools and Instructions

> > also, having a professional do it means that it won't be a knockoff
> > noname battery and if they damage something in the process, it's on
> > them to make it right.
> >
> > meanwhile, the majority of phones, laptops, cameras, etc., with
> > internal batteries are *not* glued and their batteries are easily
> > replaced with appropriate tools. often, the replacement batteries are
> > sold *with* such tools.
>
> Not in my phones. I have to remove antenna cables with a warning that
> they can snap.

if easy battery replacement is important to you, then you bought the
wrong phone.

> >>>
> >>> fm radio is not a high demand feature because there are *far* more
> >>> stations are available over the internet, along with alternatives, such
> >>> as music streaming, podcasts and much more.
> >>
> >> Yeah, I know you say so. And you know that many do not agree with you.
> >
> > not very many, given that almost no phones these days have an fm radio.
> >
>
> I see many.

nowhere near as many as phones that do not have fm radio, and of the
phones that do, how do you know that the person is actually using the
fm radio?

there is little point in including a feature if it goes unused.

[Carlos E. R.]

On 28/02/2020 22.03, nospam wrote:
> In article <hqaoigx...@minas-tirith.valinor>, Carlos E. R.
> <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>> I care very much about the battery, but I can not buy the phone I want
>> with user replaceable batteryy
>
> not enough people like you that care to where it's worthwhile for
> device makers to make such a phone.

Nay, they collude.

>
>
>>>> I have one device that the battery is glued, and removing it safely is
>>>> not trivial. The trick seems to be to pass a dental floss behind it.
>>>> Then I have to open the battery, remove the electronics, and solder them
>>>> to the new battery. Don't argue, it just is. :-D
>>>>
>>>> For a regular person, replacing the battery means going to a professional.
>>>
>>> in that particular case it would, but for something done once in 3-5
>>> years, it doesn't matter.
>>>
>>
>> It does matter. It is quite difficult to replace, it is not plug and
>> play. And the correct battery is impossible to find.
>
> maybe that particular case, but nearly always, replacement batteries
> are easily found, often with tools to open the phone.

So not user replaceable class.

>
> this is one of many examples:
> <https://www.amazon.com/HDCKU-Replacement-EB-BG930ABE-Instructions-Warra
> nty/dp/B07L5FQS36/>
> HDCKU Battery Replacement Kit for Samsung Galaxy S7 SM-G930
> (EB-BG930ABE) with Full Repair Tools and Instructions
>
>>> also, having a professional do it means that it won't be a knockoff
>>> noname battery and if they damage something in the process, it's on
>>> them to make it right.
>>>
>>> meanwhile, the majority of phones, laptops, cameras, etc., with
>>> internal batteries are *not* glued and their batteries are easily
>>> replaced with appropriate tools. often, the replacement batteries are
>>> sold *with* such tools.
>>
>> Not in my phones. I have to remove antenna cables with a warning that
>> they can snap.
>
> if easy battery replacement is important to you, then you bought the
> wrong phone.

I did not find the correct phone. It does not exist. I'm colluded in
buying what is available.

>
>
>
>
>>>>>
>>>>> fm radio is not a high demand feature because there are *far* more
>>>>> stations are available over the internet, along with alternatives, such
>>>>> as music streaming, podcasts and much more.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, I know you say so. And you know that many do not agree with you.
>>>
>>> not very many, given that almost no phones these days have an fm radio.
>>>
>>
>> I see many.
>
> nowhere near as many as phones that do not have fm radio, and of the
> phones that do, how do you know that the person is actually using the
> fm radio?

Because of the cables :-P

>
> there is little point in including a feature if it goes unused.
>

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[Carlos E. R.]

I always drop phones. Eventually. Which is why I put them in some type
of leather holster or cover.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[Ned Latham]

Try a waistcoat. Use the fob pocket (you might have to get a
tailor to fix it). For small fragile goodies, the fob pocket
area's the most convenient, and the the second safest, place
on the human body.

[Ned Latham]

nospam wrote:

> Ned Latham wrote:
> > Alan Baker wrote:

> > > Carlos E. R. wrote:
> > > >
> > > > So I don't care what apple does. I care about my mobile devices,
> > > > all android except an ebook. I want easily replaceable batteries
> > > > and spares. If it needs a law to force sense, so be it.
> > >
> > > Why not just let the marketplace decide?
> >
> > When big companies collude, the market gets no decision.
>
> the aren't colluding.

I hear there are poeople who actually believe that, can you believe it?

[nospam]

In article <slrnr5j1ru.2...@woden.valhalla.oz>, Ned Latham

<nedl...@woden.valhalla.oz> wrote:

> > > > > So I don't care what apple does. I care about my mobile devices,
> > > > > all android except an ebook. I want easily replaceable batteries
> > > > > and spares. If it needs a law to force sense, so be it.
> > > >
> > > > Why not just let the marketplace decide?
> > >
> > > When big companies collude, the market gets no decision.
> >
> > the aren't colluding.
>
> I hear there are poeople who actually believe that, can you believe it?

given that it's true, absolutely.

what they're actually doing is competing against each other.

[123456789]

Better yet, try and develop a sense of humor...

[Ned Latham]

nospam wrote:
> Ned Latham wrote:
> > nospam wrote:
> > > Ned Latham wrote:
> > > > Alan Baker wrote:
> > > > > Carlos E. R. wrote:

I fixed the attributions for you. Again.

> > > > > > So I don't care what apple does. I care about my mobile
> > > > > > devices, all android except an ebook. I want easily
> > > > > > replaceable batteries and spares. If it needs a law
> > > > > > to force sense, so be it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Why not just let the marketplace decide?
> > > >
> > > > When big companies collude, the market gets no decision.
> > >
> > > the aren't colluding.
> >
> > I hear there are poeople who actually believe that, can you believe it?
>
> given that it's true, absolutely.

Wrong. They do both.

> what they're actually doing is competing against each other.

Yair. Like the banks. And the retail chains. And the car manufacturers.
And the oil companies. And the drug companies . . .

[Ned Latham]

Or you could practise what you preach.

[Alan Baker]

No. Your parliament doesn't speak for everyone. It may not even speak
for a majority.

[Alan Baker]

So explain yourself.

>
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> the battery normally outlasts the phone. people get a new phone before
>>>> the battery needs to be replaced. it's a non-issue.
>>>>
>>>> also, the batteries *are* replaceable, it might require a screwdriver
>>>> rather than a fingernail to get to it, but for something that's done
>>>> maybe once in 3-5 years, that's not an issue whatsoever.
>>>
>>> That's not "user replaceable".
>>
>> If you have to use a screwdriver, that makes it not "user-replaceable"?
>
> Sometimes.

Nope. Some other factor might make that so, but not simply the need to
use a screwdriver.

>
>>
>>>
>>> I have one device that the battery is glued, and removing it safely is
>>> not trivial. The trick seems to be to pass a dental floss behind it.
>>> Then I have to open the battery, remove the electronics, and solder them
>>> to the new battery. Don't argue, it just is. :-D
>>>
>>> For a regular person, replacing the battery means going to a
>>> professional.
>>
>> For some regular people that might be true.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And our parliament agrees with us and will pass a law about it. No more
>>> discussion. :-P
>>
>> The law hasn't passed yet.
>
> Give it time.
>

How did that rule they wanted to put in place about chargers work out?

[Alan Baker]

More than you've got.

>
>> Got it now.
>>
>> :-)
>
>

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-02-28 12:46 p.m., Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 28/02/2020 21.16, nospam wrote:
>> In article <964oigx...@minas-tirith.valinor>, Carlos E. R.
>> <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>>>> Because removing the headphone jack removed a major problem with
>>>>>> breakage, Liar. I agree there are some advantages to the user
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As for recycling, Apple has built robotic systems specifically to break
>>>>>> down its products for recycling.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And amazingly, customers don't really seem to have much of a problem
>>>>>> with iPhones not having removable batteries, Liar; not if we go by that
>>>>>> inconvenient metric (for you) of sales, anyway.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> This is not true.
>>>>
>>>> it very much is true.
>>>
>>> Nay.
>>
>> it's true. just look at what people are actually buying. very few care
>> about internal batteries.
>
> Wrong. They care, but have no alternative.

That is simply a lie.

> I care very much about the battery, but I can not buy the phone I want
> with user replaceable batteryy

And I want to buy a BMW, but they don't sell one with a feature I want.

There should be a law!

>
>>
>>>>> Customers buy phones without easily replaceable batteries simply because
>>>>> there are no alternatives. Of course we want replaceable batteries, and
>>>>> not only on phones.
>>>>
>>>> there are alternatives, but they don't sell, so clearly they're not
>>>> important to most people.
>>>
>>> No, you are interpreting it wrong. We do want replaceable batteries, but
>>> we also want other features, like such camera, cpu, memory, display,
>>> glass, power, size, sensors, etc. In the end, we select the one with
>>> glued battery because we have no choice of getting the same features and
>>> a replaceable battery.
>>
>> all batteries are replaceable. the question is whether it's a snap off
>> cover or if it's internal and requires tools.
>
> So, no user replaceable battery.

Not true

>
>>
>> companies make products that they think will sell, and those are
>> products with internal batteries more so than with a snap off cover.
>>
>>>> the battery normally outlasts the phone. people get a new phone before
>>>> the battery needs to be replaced. it's a non-issue.
>>>>
>>>> also, the batteries *are* replaceable, it might require a screwdriver
>>>> rather than a fingernail to get to it, but for something that's done
>>>> maybe once in 3-5 years, that's not an issue whatsoever.
>>>
>>> That's not "user replaceable".
>>
>> of course it is.
>>
>
> No.
>
>> do you not have a screwdriver?? if not, they're a couple of bucks.
>>
>
> That does not matter.

It most certainly does.

>
>> and that's only if you keep the phone longer than the battery lasts.
>> typically people replace their phone every 3-5 years, and the battery
>> should still be usable.
>>
>>> I have one device that the battery is glued, and removing it safely is
>>> not trivial. The trick seems to be to pass a dental floss behind it.
>>> Then I have to open the battery, remove the electronics, and solder them
>>> to the new battery. Don't argue, it just is. :-D
>>>
>>> For a regular person, replacing the battery means going to a professional.
>>
>> in that particular case it would, but for something done once in 3-5
>> years, it doesn't matter.
>>
>
> It does matter. It is quite difficult to replace, it is not plug and
> play. And the correct battery is impossible to find.
>
>> also, having a professional do it means that it won't be a knockoff
>> noname battery and if they damage something in the process, it's on
>> them to make it right.
>>
>> meanwhile, the majority of phones, laptops, cameras, etc., with
>> internal batteries are *not* glued and their batteries are easily
>> replaced with appropriate tools. often, the replacement batteries are
>> sold *with* such tools.
>
> Not in my phones. I have to remove antenna cables with a warning that
> they can snap.

Awwwwww...

Buy a different phone. Vote with your wallet.

>
>>
>> <https://www.amazon.com/HDCKU-Replacement-EB-BG930ABE-Instructions-Warra
>> nty/dp/B07L5FQS36/>
>> HDCKU Battery Replacement Kit for Samsung Galaxy S7 SM-G930
>> (EB-BG930ABE) with Full Repair Tools and Instructions
>>
>>> And our parliament agrees with us and will pass a law about it. No more
>>> discussion. :-P
>>
>> highly unlikely, and they should find something more important to do
>> than dictate to companies outside of their rule as to how to design
>> products.
>>
>
> It is important to me and others.

And yet phones with non-removable batteries sell best.

>
>>>>> And yes, my phone has an earphone jack and FM radio. Very happy about
>>>>> that and no problems with it.
>>>>
>>>> all phones have a headphone jack and almost always include headphones
>>>> in the box. older phones use an analog jack and most newer phones use a
>>>> digital jack, either usb-c or lightning. *many* people use bluetooth,
>>>> which is far more convenient than a dangling wire.
>>>>
>>>> fm radio is not a high demand feature because there are *far* more
>>>> stations are available over the internet, along with alternatives, such
>>>> as music streaming, podcasts and much more.
>>>
>>> Yeah, I know you say so. And you know that many do not agree with you.
>>
>> not very many, given that almost no phones these days have an fm radio.
>>
>
> I see many.

Bullshit.

[Alan Baker]

Where is your evidence that big companies are colluding on this.

Samsung wants very much to be more attractive for buyers of smartphones
than Apple.

If removable batteries would make that so, why aren't they doing it?

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-02-28 1:10 p.m., Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 28/02/2020 22.03, nospam wrote:
>> In article <hqaoigx...@minas-tirith.valinor>, Carlos E. R.
>> <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I care very much about the battery, but I can not buy the phone I want
>>> with user replaceable batteryy
>>
>> not enough people like you that care to where it's worthwhile for
>> device makers to make such a phone.
>
> Nay, they collude.
>

Your opinion.

>>
>>
>>>>> I have one device that the battery is glued, and removing it safely is
>>>>> not trivial. The trick seems to be to pass a dental floss behind it.
>>>>> Then I have to open the battery, remove the electronics, and solder them
>>>>> to the new battery. Don't argue, it just is. :-D
>>>>>
>>>>> For a regular person, replacing the battery means going to a professional.
>>>>
>>>> in that particular case it would, but for something done once in 3-5
>>>> years, it doesn't matter.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It does matter. It is quite difficult to replace, it is not plug and
>>> play. And the correct battery is impossible to find.
>>
>> maybe that particular case, but nearly always, replacement batteries
>> are easily found, often with tools to open the phone.
>
> So not user replaceable class.

Wrong.

>
>>
>> this is one of many examples:
>> <https://www.amazon.com/HDCKU-Replacement-EB-BG930ABE-Instructions-Warra
>> nty/dp/B07L5FQS36/>
>> HDCKU Battery Replacement Kit for Samsung Galaxy S7 SM-G930
>> (EB-BG930ABE) with Full Repair Tools and Instructions
>>
>>>> also, having a professional do it means that it won't be a knockoff
>>>> noname battery and if they damage something in the process, it's on
>>>> them to make it right.
>>>>
>>>> meanwhile, the majority of phones, laptops, cameras, etc., with
>>>> internal batteries are *not* glued and their batteries are easily
>>>> replaced with appropriate tools. often, the replacement batteries are
>>>> sold *with* such tools.
>>>
>>> Not in my phones. I have to remove antenna cables with a warning that
>>> they can snap.
>>
>> if easy battery replacement is important to you, then you bought the
>> wrong phone.
>
> I did not find the correct phone. It does not exist. I'm colluded in
> buying what is available.

You're whining that companies sell what people want to buy most.

[Eli the Bearded]

In comp.mobile.android, Alan Baker <nu...@ness.biz> wrote:
> As for recycling, Apple has built robotic systems specifically to break
> down its products for recycling.

Quoting:
https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-is-opening-up-its-world-of-iphone-recycling/

"There's 100-plus elements in an iPhone, and we're looking at how to
move them back through the chain," she added. "The business
opportunity is to come to Apple and say 'Hey, I have a process for
getting cobalt out of batteries,' or 'I have a process for getting
tungsten.'" Then, Apple will pay for it.

Ultimately, Apple said, it wants to create a "closed loop" of
recycling. At Apple, that means taking in devices and either
refurbishing them to good-as-new and sending them off, or recycling
them so the materials can be used again in new devices.

So far, it's begun sending the iPhone batteries Daisy pulls out to a
recycler who uses the cobalt to make new batteries for Apple
products. The company also uses 100% recycled tin in the solder on
the logic boards of 11 products. And don't forget those 100%
recycled aluminum MacBook Air housings.


Note that Apple having a system ("Daisy") for "breaking down" the phones
doesn't mean the broken down parts are actually being recycled. It
sounds like currently only the very easiest things are recycled. Note
how they mention recycling the *cobalt* from the batteries, but don't
mention the lithium.

Call this "recycling" is optimistic at best and greenwashing at worst.

Elijah
------
not that a typical non-Apple phone is any better on that front

[Ned Latham]

Alan Baker wrote:
> Ned Latham wrote:
> > Alan Baker wrote:
> > > Carlos E. R. wrote:
> >
> > ----snip----
> >
> > > > So I don't care what apple does. I care about my mobile devices,
> > > > all android except an ebook. I want easily replaceable batteries
> > > > and spares. If it needs a law to force sense, so be it.
> > >
> > > Why not just let the marketplace decide?
> >
> > When big companies collude, the market gets no decision.
>
> Where is your evidence that big companies are colluding on this.

Where did I say that they're colluding on this?

> Samsung wants very much to be more attractive for buyers of smartphones
> than Apple.

They are, except for the gulls.

> If removable batteries would make that so, why aren't they doing it?

Three factors:
1. Manufacture is simplified;
2. People don't complain enough about bad features.
3. They don't listen enough to customer feedback.

[nospam]

In article <o7coigx...@minas-tirith.valinor>, Carlos E. R.

<robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:

> >> I care very much about the battery, but I can not buy the phone I want
> >> with user replaceable batteryy
> >
> > not enough people like you that care to where it's worthwhile for
> > device makers to make such a phone.
>
> Nay, they collude.

no they don't.

there is no collusion or global conspiracy to make all batteries
internal.

what they do is make products that they think will sell well. some
companies do that better than others.

> >>>> I have one device that the battery is glued, and removing it safely is
> >>>> not trivial. The trick seems to be to pass a dental floss behind it.
> >>>> Then I have to open the battery, remove the electronics, and solder them
> >>>> to the new battery. Don't argue, it just is. :-D
> >>>>
> >>>> For a regular person, replacing the battery means going to a
> >>>> professional.
> >>>
> >>> in that particular case it would, but for something done once in 3-5
> >>> years, it doesn't matter.
> >>>
> >>
> >> It does matter. It is quite difficult to replace, it is not plug and
> >> play. And the correct battery is impossible to find.
> >
> > maybe that particular case, but nearly always, replacement batteries
> > are easily found, often with tools to open the phone.
>
> So not user replaceable class.

it *is* user replaceable, with replacement batteries available from
amazon and other sellers.

it takes a couple of minutes instead of 15 seconds, which is not an
issue for something done once in 3-5 years.

or do what most people do, and that's get a new phone, not because the
battery is dead, but because the phone is 5 years old and can't run the
latest apps.

[nospam]

In article <slrnr5j49r.2...@woden.valhalla.oz>, Ned Latham

<nedl...@woden.valhalla.oz> wrote:

> > what they're actually doing is competing against each other.
>
> Yair. Like the banks. And the retail chains. And the car manufacturers.
> And the oil companies. And the drug companies . . .

exactly.

[nospam]

In article <eli$20022...@qaz.wtf>, Eli the Bearded

they recycle far more than just cobalt.

<https://www.engadget.com/2018/10/30/apple-mac-100-percent-recycled-alum
inum-cases/>
Today, at its Mac event, Apple announced that the new MacBook Air
and the Mac mini are "the greenest" Macs ever. That's because the
new machine bodies are made from 100 percent recycled aluminum.

<https://www.macrumors.com/2018/11/08/2018-macbook-air-mac-mini-environm
ental-reports/>
The eco-friendly designs of the new MacBook Air and Mac mini extends
beyond aluminum. The bottom cover and connector wall in the new Mac
mini, for example, are made from 60 percent recycled plastic, while
its fan contains 27 percent bio-based plastic made with renewable
sources rather than petroleum.
...
Apple's ultimate goal is to use only recycled or renewable materials
in its products, and source them responsibly, and it has certainly
taken further steps forward with the latest MacBook Air and Mac mini.

[Eli the Bearded]

In comp.mobile.android, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> wrote:
>> Call this "recycling" is optimistic at best and greenwashing at worst.
> they recycle far more than just cobalt.

Go back and read my message again. I didn't say they only recycle the
cobalt. I said they apparently don't recycle the lithium from the
batteries and appear to only recycle the very easiest materials. The
alumimium cases and the solder are a lot easier to recycle than say the
parts of the cameras.

Elijah
------
stands by his post

[nospam]

In article <eli$20022...@qaz.wtf>, Eli the Bearded

<*@eli.users.panix.com> wrote:

> >> Call this "recycling" is optimistic at best and greenwashing at worst.
> > they recycle far more than just cobalt.
>
> Go back and read my message again. I didn't say they only recycle the
> cobalt. I said they apparently don't recycle the lithium from the
> batteries and appear to only recycle the very easiest materials. The
> alumimium cases and the solder are a lot easier to recycle than say the
> parts of the cameras.

they recycle as much as they can, which is a *lot* more than other
companies do.

[Carlos E. R.]

And people will buy something even if they don't like some feature. So
they think that we voted with our valet, when they don't build all the
choices.



--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[Carlos E. R.]

ROTFL!

(no, I laugh because you actually believe that)

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[Carlos E. R.]

Nah. Waste of time. :-D

>>>>> the battery normally outlasts the phone. people get a new phone before
>>>>> the battery needs to be replaced. it's a non-issue.
>>>>>
>>>>> also, the batteries *are* replaceable, it might require a screwdriver
>>>>> rather than a fingernail to get to it, but for something that's done
>>>>> maybe once in 3-5 years, that's not an issue whatsoever.
>>>>
>>>> That's not "user replaceable".
>>>
>>> If you have to use a screwdriver, that makes it not "user-replaceable"?
>>
>> Sometimes.
>
> Nope. Some other factor might make that so, but not simply the need to
> use a screwdriver.

So, sometimes :-)

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[Carlos E. R.]

I have dropped the phone from a table. Or from the bed.

It is not a question of whether the phone will fall, but when ;-)


--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[Carlos E. R.]

On 28/02/2020 23.56, nospam wrote:
> In article <o7coigx...@minas-tirith.valinor>, Carlos E. R.
> <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>> I care very much about the battery, but I can not buy the phone I want
>>>> with user replaceable batteryy
>>>
>>> not enough people like you that care to where it's worthwhile for
>>> device makers to make such a phone.
>>
>> Nay, they collude.
>
> no they don't.
>
> there is no collusion or global conspiracy to make all batteries
> internal.
>
> what they do is make products that they think will sell well. some
> companies do that better than others.

Ha, ha

>
>>>>>> I have one device that the battery is glued, and removing it safely is
>>>>>> not trivial. The trick seems to be to pass a dental floss behind it.
>>>>>> Then I have to open the battery, remove the electronics, and solder them
>>>>>> to the new battery. Don't argue, it just is. :-D
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For a regular person, replacing the battery means going to a
>>>>>> professional.
>>>>>
>>>>> in that particular case it would, but for something done once in 3-5
>>>>> years, it doesn't matter.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It does matter. It is quite difficult to replace, it is not plug and
>>>> play. And the correct battery is impossible to find.
>>>
>>> maybe that particular case, but nearly always, replacement batteries
>>> are easily found, often with tools to open the phone.
>>
>> So not user replaceable class.
>
> it *is* user replaceable, with replacement batteries available from
> amazon and other sellers.
>
> it takes a couple of minutes instead of 15 seconds, which is not an
> issue for something done once in 3-5 years.

rather three hours.

>
> or do what most people do, and that's get a new phone, not because the
> battery is dead, but because the phone is 5 years old and can't run the
> latest apps.
>

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[Arlen Holder]

On 28 Feb 2020 18:56:05 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:

>> And yes, my phone has an earphone jack and FM radio. Very happy about
>> that and no problems with it.
>

> Both of those would be useless to me. Again, you don't speak for
> everyone. In fact I believe you're in the tiny minority.

Tiny minority?
o Only to an apologist like JR is over 99% a "tiny minority"!

*I love when Jolly Roger posts because he is the quintessential apologist*.
o *Notice the apologists are utterly clueless about Android capabilities*!

For example, it's a fact that over 99% of current Android phones have the
desired functionality of a headphone jack, which is basic functionality.
o How many of the existing Android phones lack headphone jack basic hardware functionality?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/ZjnD2kAf-mI/I3i2jT-mCAAJ>

Notice the classic Apple user is fantastically _clueless_ on functionality!

Jolly Roger is the canonical Apple user so we must listen very carefully to
what he actually believes, which is that he believes 99% is a "tiny
minority".

Little wonder the apologists don't ever seem to comprehend fact & reason!
o *How can apologists claim 99% is a "tiny minority" and be believed?*

Jolly Roger, as all apologists do, always proves to be _immune_ to facts.
o Simply because _he_ doesn't have even the most basic of functionality!

Canonical Apple users, of which Jolly Roger is one, buy into the mere
_illusion_ of functionality (which Apple MARKETING is clever to provide).

--
Since Jolly Roger hides his posts from Google archival, his post is below:

On 2020-02-28, Carlos E. R. <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 28/02/2020 07.21, Alan Baker wrote:
>> On 2020-02-27 7:40 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
>>> Dateline today...
>
> ...
>

>> Because removing the headphone jack removed a major problem with
>> breakage, Liar. I agree there are some advantages to the user
>>
>> As for recycling, Apple has built robotic systems specifically to break
>> down its products for recycling.
>>
>> And amazingly, customers don't really seem to have much of a problem
>> with iPhones not having removable batteries, Liar; not if we go by that
>> inconvenient metric (for you) of sales, anyway.
>>
>> :-)
>
> This is not true.
>

> Customers buy phones without easily replaceable batteries simply because
> there are no alternatives. Of course we want replaceable batteries, and
> not only on phones.

Nah. You don't speak for everyone. When smartphone batteries have lasted
3-5 years, as mine have since the 1990s, there isn't as much of a need
for them to be user-replaceable. Regardless, I've replaced all of my
iPhone batteries myself, and Apple hasn't ever tried to stop me. If and
when that becomes more of a hassle than it's worth, I'll have absolutely
no problem paying Apple or any third-party Apple-authorized service
technician to do it.

> And yes, my phone has an earphone jack and FM radio. Very happy about
> that and no problems with it.

Both of those would be useless to me. Again, you don't speak for
everyone. In fact I believe you're in the tiny minority.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 28 Feb 2020 18:07:54 -0500, nospam wrote:

> they recycle as much as they can, which is a *lot* more than other
> companies do.

On Fri, 28 Feb 2020 22:35:37 +0000 (UTC), Eli the Bearded wrote:

> Call this "recycling" is optimistic at best and greenwashing at worst.

Apple's stance on "recycling" is easily shown to be pure marketing bullshit.
o How does purposefully secretly shortening the iPhone life help the environment?

Just as Apple's highly marketed stance on privacy is more marketing than
truth, Apple's highly marketed stance on recycling is more marketing than
truth.

While there are many facts proving Apple markets the mere _illusion_ of wht
they loudly & incessantly claim... the _simplest_ fact proving that
statement is that Apple admitted the crime of prematurely shortening the
life of iPhones by their _secret_ throttling to half CPU speeds in "about a
year".
o Apple agrees to pay 25 million euros fine as Apple admits
*Apple committed the crime of deceptive commercial practice*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.sys.mac.advocacy/e0uWdUCRkrM/ejmGbmi6BAAJ>

As always, apologists call all facts "lies by liars", but the fact they
hate the fact Apple admitted to a crime doesn't change that fact.

For example, even though the full cite was provided in that thread above to
these words below, the apologists flatly deny these words even exist!
<https://i.postimg.cc/x11K1czb/liar00.jpg>

Apologists are _that_ immune to facts!

Literally, facts scare apologists so much that they simply deny they exist.
<https://i.postimg.cc/KcVRkczb/liar02.jpg>

Even though the full and complete cites were provided in that thread!
<https://i.postimg.cc/bvkPYvzj/liar03.jpg>

Apple admitted to committing the crime of shortening the life of iPhones:
<https://i.postimg.cc/B6gyHjmf/liar01.jpg>

*How does purposefully secretly shortening the iPhone life help the environment?*
<https://i.postimg.cc/bvkPYvzj/liar03.jpg>
--
Apple's highly advertised stance on the environment is clever marketing bullshit.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 00:17:03 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> rather three hours.

With a lot of fragile components to be removed in many cases.
o And how does _secretly_ intentionally shortening iPhone life help the environment?
--
Apple's stance on the environment is easily shown to be pure bullshit.

[Panthera Tigris Altaica]

On 2020-02-28 18:17, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 28/02/2020 23.56, nospam wrote:
>> In article <o7coigx...@minas-tirith.valinor>, Carlos E. R.
>> <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>>> I care very much about the battery, but I can not buy the phone I want
>>>>> with user replaceable batteryy
>>>>
>>>> not enough people like you that care to where it's worthwhile for
>>>> device makers to make such a phone.
>>>
>>> Nay, they collude.
>>
>> no they don't.
>>
>> there is no collusion or global conspiracy to make all batteries
>> internal.
>>
>> what they do is make products that they think will sell well. some
>> companies do that better than others.
>
>
> Ha, ha

Lack of support for your position noted.

>
>>
>>>>>>> I have one device that the battery is glued, and removing it safely is
>>>>>>> not trivial. The trick seems to be to pass a dental floss behind it.
>>>>>>> Then I have to open the battery, remove the electronics, and solder them
>>>>>>> to the new battery. Don't argue, it just is. :-D
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For a regular person, replacing the battery means going to a
>>>>>>> professional.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> in that particular case it would, but for something done once in 3-5
>>>>>> years, it doesn't matter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It does matter. It is quite difficult to replace, it is not plug and
>>>>> play. And the correct battery is impossible to find.
>>>>
>>>> maybe that particular case, but nearly always, replacement batteries
>>>> are easily found, often with tools to open the phone.
>>>
>>> So not user replaceable class.
>>
>> it *is* user replaceable, with replacement batteries available from
>> amazon and other sellers.
>>
>> it takes a couple of minutes instead of 15 seconds, which is not an
>> issue for something done once in 3-5 years.
>
> rather three hours.

The last time I changed the battery in a phone which allegedly did not
have a replaceable battery it took me 30-35 minutes. I had that phone
for four years before I changed the battery. It's been two years now.
The phone still works, but I might get a new (to me) phone later this
year, as it is no longer supported by Apple and, as noted elsewhere, can
no longer run the latest OS and some apps. In particular I am addicted
to Civilization 6, and Civ 6 runs very slowly and can't do some things
on that phone. The next Civ 6 update will almost certainly drop support
for it.

It is my opinion that 30-35 minutes every four years is not a major
problem. Even if you were correct and it took three hours, or six times
as long, spending that time every four years is simply not a problem for
me. If it is for you, I really have to wonder about what on earth you do
that you can't spare 3 hours in four years.

[Panthera Tigris Altaica]

Absolute refusal to support your position noted.

>
>
>
>>>>>> the battery normally outlasts the phone. people get a new phone before
>>>>>> the battery needs to be replaced. it's a non-issue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> also, the batteries *are* replaceable, it might require a screwdriver
>>>>>> rather than a fingernail to get to it, but for something that's done
>>>>>> maybe once in 3-5 years, that's not an issue whatsoever.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's not "user replaceable".
>>>>
>>>> If you have to use a screwdriver, that makes it not "user-replaceable"?
>>>
>>> Sometimes.
>>
>> Nope. Some other factor might make that so, but not simply the need to
>> use a screwdriver.
>
> So, sometimes :-)
>

So... support your position.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 00:14:48 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> And people will buy something even if they don't like some feature. So
> they think that we voted with our valet, when they don't build all the
> choices.

Every couple of years I hit up the Costco kiosk selling phones to ask for
an inexpensive T-Mobile phone around $100 to $200 for "stocking stuffers".
o Phablet stocking stuffers: iPhone 7 versus LG Stylo 3 Plus price/performance hardware comparison
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/ls71mnkj4jk/n0FaH2e_DQAJ>

One of my requirements for years, was the battery had to be replaceable.
(Only child-like apologists will claim they don't know what that means.)
o Stocking stuffers for Christmas, great Android phones around $150 (what do you suggest?)
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/wAodwFeI4V8/NxcBNQM-AAAJ>

This year, I bought a handful of the 8-core 4GB RAM 64GB Moto G7 phablets,
but, unfortunately, this otherwise decent phone for $100 lacks the user
replaceable battery functionality.
<https://i.postimg.cc/136096sR/motog700.jpg>

Had this Moto G7 a user-replaceable battery for that price, it would have
been perfect, but, for the admittedly cheap price of $100, I had to settle
for these hardware features which, unfortunately, lack the battery option!
<https://www.gsmarena.com/motorola_moto_g7-9357.php#usa>

The good news is that I easily repopulated the new phone from the APKs
automatically stored on the SD card of the old phone (it just works):
<https://i.postimg.cc/QtNcky5V/motog702.jpg>

All I had to do was move the sd card from the old phone to the new phone!
<https://i.postimg.cc/CxjDygsz/motog704.jpg>

Notice with Android, you simply recycle the apps too!
(which is yet another basic functionality that is impossible to do on iOS.)
o On iOS, how do you extract, backup, & restore (automatically & manually),
share IPAs (all installed versions) with anyone, & autogenerate editable
text of App Store links to all apps
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/KkMM-DWJCfM/VyglHGuTBwAJ>
--
Apple doesn't make those ungodly profits off of intelligent consumers.

[Ned Latham]

Panthera Tigris Altaica wrote:

----snip----

> It is my opinion that 30-35 minutes every four years is not a major
> problem. Even if you were correct and it took three hours, or six times
> as long, spending that time every four years is simply not a problem for
> me. If it is for you, I really have to wonder about what on earth you do
> that you can't spare 3 hours in four years.

It *occurs* infrequenbtly, but it takes a biggish chunk of time out of
*one* day.

[nospam]

In article <r3c8f4$8pt$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen Holder

<arlen.geo...@is.invalid> wrote:

> o How does purposefully secretly shortening the iPhone life help the
> environment?

actually, apple *extended* its lige by fixing the sudden shutdown
problem due to older batteries, resulting in people keeping their phone
for a much longer period of time than they otherwise would have.

also, ios updates support phones as much as 6 years old.

android is lucky to get 3 years of updates, so that's at least two
android phones, probably three, in the 6 years of ios support.

[nospam]

In article <r3c9am$mel$1...@dont-email.me>, Panthera Tigris Altaica

correct.

just think of all the time spent on windows updates during a four year
period. :) sometimes they can take an hour or more, for just one
update.

or, hire a professional, as previously mentioned, and it will be done
faster, done properly and include a warranty for the work.

[Ned Latham]

Yep. As with the vote in our so-called democracies: the best we get is
to choose the least evil of the offerings.

[Ned Latham]

True. I've dropped mine a few times. But carrying it around on the
body is more fraught, I think. You can collide with something and
break it, or sit or fall on it...

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 28 Feb 2020 19:10:15 -0500, nospam wrote:

> actually, apple *extended* its lige by fixing the sudden shutdown
> problem due to older batteries, resulting in people keeping their phone
> for a much longer period of time than they otherwise would have.

Hi nospam,

Save your bullshit for the gullible users on the Apple ngs, nospam.
o Your credibility on facts, nospam, is worse than a coin toss result.

Remember that "for a buck" claim you made which you couldn't support?
o Name a single iOS app functionality that you can get for a buck, that isn't already on Android, for free
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/aUyeuaPI9pc/r9gtLFjXAwAJ>

Bear in mind I was the one who first posted the news of the throttling:
o Report says Apple 'Powerd' code secretly slows your iOS device down to trick you into buying a new device
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/GdEtzzrc9F0/z57KTsmWAQAJ>

The CPU speeds halved was found in devices only about a year old, nospam.
o *Where Apple admitted _intentionally_ secretly shortening iPhone life.*

Simple question of logic, sense, and reason (i.e., not marketing bullshit):
o *How does purposefully secretly shortening iPhone life help the environment?*

> also, ios updates support phones as much as 6 years old.

What game are you trying to play with _that_ line of questioning, nospam?
o The iOS version is utterly _meaningless_ in terms of app functionality.

o Is there any software functionality in the new iPhone 11 that isn't already in an average 5-year old Android phone?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/1D2Sgdlz1-I/6KRWyuETBAAJ>

Remember, my Samsung Galaxy S3 has more app functionality than _any_ iPhone
ever sold, which proves the "iOS update" is utterly meaningless except as a
Marketing gimmick that all you apologists fall for since you all fall for
the mere _illusion_ of functionality.
o What functionality you do on iOS you wish you could do on Android?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/poG62SEefqk/6_b0ero7BAAJ>

> android is lucky to get 3 years of updates, so that's at least two
> android phones, probably three, in the 6 years of ios support.

You apologists nospam, always prove to simply parrot MARKETING bullshit.

For example, even you must know iOS is utterly primitive in functionality!
o Is it a sad fact that iOS is primitive in homescreen management functionality compared to the modern homescreen management functionality of Android?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/uQKprR8Pjl8/K_C6i47ADwAJ>

What you apologists do incessantly is parrot Apple Marketing bullshit!
o The iOS version does not provide any more functionality than Android

Here's what you need to know about parroting Apple Marketing bullshit:
o When apologists claim iOS is "safer" than Android simply because of the "frequency" of release...
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/voFbGKpUoBo/Bfejm_I9EAAJ>
--
Apple users tend to be gullible in that they believe marketing bullshit.

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 28 Feb 2020 18:21:27 -0600, Ned Latham wrote:

> True. I've dropped mine a few times. But carrying it around on the
> body is more fraught, I think. You can collide with something and
> break it, or sit or fall on it...

I've destroyed quite a few phones (and other things like SLRs) simply
because I'm rough on them.

What I do is what most people do, which is buy a good case for about 10
bucks or so, and then I buy those glass/plastic laminated screen protectors
for about 7 bucks or so, where, for less than 20 bucks, my $100 phone is
protected from short falls on hopefully forgiving surfaces, for the most
part.

If it does get crushed, and, at times it will, my total loss is only $120
bucks plus about 10% tax, so that's about $132 bucks for an 8-core 64GB 4GB
RAM phablet.

And, if the SD card itself isn't crushed, most (if not all) of my 750
automatically archived app APKs _still_ work on the new replacement phone!
<https://i.postimg.cc/MZF1VtGK/motog703.jpg>

In fact, last I checked, my $130 LG Stylo 3 Plus was selling for _more_
than I paid for it, even more than two years _after_ I bought it, for
example:
o *Value of my Android phone, 2 years later is more than 100% what I paid*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/K-yNN4Bhp_M/pDlWHNewBgAJ>

In short, protecting a phone costs about 20 bucks (or so), and, even if you
do crush it eventually, replacing an intelligent purchase will only set you
back about hundred dollars or so.

At upwards of $1500 for some phones, you can easily afford to replace a
dozen for the cost of just one of those $1,500 phones (which doesn't even
have the app functionality of that $100 phone in the first place).
--
Apple doesn't make all those ungodly profits off of intelligent consumers.

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 28 Feb 2020 16:40:36 -0600, Ned Latham wrote:

> Where did I say that they're colluding on this?

This is an adult philosophical post...

Actually, I think there is some "copycat" stuff going on in Android land.
o What company wouldn't want to copy Apple's gimmicks for high profits?

*Logically, what OEM wouldn't want the ungodly profits Apple enjoys?*

It seems to me that the big boys (e.g., Google, Samsung, et al.) can afford
to make a "copycat" high-end phone that mimics Apple's successful marketing
ploys (e.g., remove headphone jack, remove replaceable battery, remove sd
card functionality, etc.).

On that "copycat phone", they can charge exorbitant prices and hope they
get away with it, since some Android consumers have the same lack of
intelligence as most Apple consumers seem to have.

*What company wouldn't want to copy Apple's gimmicks for high profits?*

However, the recent sales figures for Android phones show that the volume
sales are _not_ on the flagship phones, at least for the top Android sales:
o The best value in each market segment easily won out over the flagship Apple & Android phones in terms of volume sold in 2019
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/D3RweV2zJqY/xDVrG_8yCwAJ>

There probably are three basic tiers in Android marketing:
a. Low end (high volume, low profits)
b. Medium end (medium volume, medium profits)
c. High end (low volume, high profits)

For that high-end high-profit segment, I suspect the big boys (like Samsung
& Google) copy as much of Apple Marketing gimmicks as they can get away
with.
--
You don't make those ungodly profits off of intelligent consumers.

[Carlos E. R.]

More lack of reading skills noted :-P


--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[Carlos E. R.]

Or just force the manufacturer to design with user replaceable
batteries, and any aunt can do it, safely and easily, in minutes :-P

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 01:09:23 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> There probably are three basic tiers in Android marketing:
> a. Low end (high volume, low profits)
> b. Medium end (medium volume, medium profits)
> c. High end (low volume, high profits)
>
> For that high-end high-profit segment, I suspect the big boys (like Samsung
> & Google) copy as much of Apple Marketing gimmicks as they can get away
> with.

Clarification:
o I had meant "profit margins" (not profits), as profits depend on volume.
a. Low end (high volume, low profit margins)
b. Medium end (medium volume, medium profit margins)
c. High end (low volume, high profit margins)

Restated as such, I think there _are_ Android copycats (e.g., Google &
Samsung come to mind) who can afford to directly copy Apple gimmicks of
removing functionality from the user to extend their profit margins:
o They remove headphone jack functionality on the copycat phones
o They remove external sd card functionality on the copycat phones
o They remove replaceable battery functionality on the copycat phones
etc.

While every company would love to have Apple's ungodly profit margins...
o It's the largest ones who can more easily afford a low-volume copycat.

Who wouldn't want to garner Apple's ungodly profit margins?
o All they need to do is copy Apple's marketing gimmicks as best they can.

But those gimmicks only work on consumers who don't care about utility.
--
You can't make those ungodly profits off of intelligent consumers.

[nospam]

In article <r3cc8m$fd4$2...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen Holder

<arlen.geo...@is.invalid> wrote:

> o Is there any software functionality in the new iPhone 11 that isn't already
> in an average 5-year old Android phone?

shitloads of both hardware and software features, just as there is with
modern android phones, such as the samsung galaxy s20 or even s10,
versus a 5 year old mythical phone.

[nospam]

In article <r3cdk3$hnt$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen Holder
<arlen.geo...@is.invalid> wrote:

> This is a nonsensical post...

ftfy

[nospam]

In article <84poigx...@minas-tirith.valinor>, Carlos E. R.

<robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:

> Or just force the manufacturer to design with user replaceable
> batteries, and any aunt can do it, safely and easily, in minutes :-P

internal batteries offer a number of advantages, including longer run
time, more reliability, easier to make the device thinner & lighter and
water resistant, all things that benefit users every day, versus making
a task that might occur once every few years a little easier.

forcing a company to forego all of that would be *bad*. very bad.

also, aunts don't keep their phones long enough to where they would
need to replace the battery at all, nor do sisters or cousins.

the internal battery normally lasts longer than the phone itself does
and rarely needs replacing at all. nothing is perfect and it could fail
prematurely, but that's the exception, not the rule.

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 28 Feb 2020 20:46:46 -0500, nospam wrote:

> the internal battery normally lasts longer than the phone itself does
> and rarely needs replacing at all.

*How is prematurely replacing iPhone batteries environmentally friendly?*

Apple is drunk on prematurely shortening the life of iPhones, nospam.
o How is _that_ fact in any way environmentally friendly, nospam?

*It's a fact _every_ recent iOS release just adds _more_ throttling!*
o Every iPhone CPU... to the iPhone XS Max... gets throttling software
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/Mzh1IvniDr8/HxchsGIFAgAJ>

FACT:
*Every recent major Apple release throttles a _new_ set of iPhones!*
o *iOS 10*: iPhone 6, 6 Plus, 6S, 6S Plus running iOS 10.2.1 or higher
o : iPhone SE running iOS 10.2.1 or higher
o *iOS 11*: iPhone 7 and 7 Plus running iOS 11.2 or higher
o *iOS 12*: iPhone 8 and 8 Plus running iOS 12.1 or higher
o : iPhone X running iOS 12.1 or higher
o *iOS 13*: iPhone XS, XS Max and XR running iOS 13.1 or higher

We can only predict an iOS 14 release will throttle the latest iPhones too.
o *How is prematurely replacing iPhone batteries environmentally friendly?*
--
Apple is drunk on throttling CPUs as part of their basic business practice.

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 28 Feb 2020 20:46:44 -0500, nospam wrote:

>> This is a nonsensical post...
>
> ftfy

Adults note apologists turn into instant children in the face of facts.
o Why do the apologists like nospam turn into instant children in the face of mere facts (e.g., ftfy)?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/TZbkkqS3jv4/3_TTHgRpBwAJ>

Apologists like nospam have only 7 responses to fact they don't like.
o None of them adult.
--
Apple isn't making those ungodly profits off of intelligent people.

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 28 Feb 2020 20:46:43 -0500, nospam wrote:

> shitloads of both hardware and software features, just as there is with
> modern android phones, such as the samsung galaxy s20 or even s10,
> versus a 5 year old mythical phone.

The benefits of a "frequent release" is the same with iOS as with diarrhea.

Every time you pull your "frequency of release" bullshit, nospam...
o I'm simply going to remind you of the adult facts.

The frequency of release argument all you apologists make, is bullshit.
o You apologists simply gullibly parrot exactly what Marketing feeds you.

The fact iOS 13 was a frequently released diarrhea is well known, nospam.
o We proved many times iOS is untested crap that's released frequently.

[nospam]

In article <r3cmc7$1oo$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen Holder

<arlen.geo...@is.invalid> wrote:

> > shitloads of both hardware and software features, just as there is with
> > modern android phones, such as the samsung galaxy s20 or even s10,
> > versus a 5 year old mythical phone.
>

> The benefits of my posts is the same as with diarrhea.

ftfy

> Every time you pull your "frequency of release" bullshit, nospam...

nothing above mentions frequency of release, thereby proving your
diarrheic posts.

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 28 Feb 2020 23:03:52 -0500, nospam wrote:
> ftfy

Your entire argument, nospam, is a parroting of bullshit Apple marketing.

You bullshit so much nospam, that you forgot your own posts.
o Let me remind you of your bullshit, nospam.

> actually, apple *extended* its li[f]e by fixing the sudden

> shutdown problem due to older batteries, resulting in people
> keeping their phone for a much longer period of time than
> they otherwise would have.

Only you apologists believe that secretly throttling iPhones to less than
half speed after about a year is "extending the life" of the iPhone!

You apologists forget all facts, which is Apple _reduced_ the life of
iPhones, not only by throttling them, but by _secretly_ throttling them.

FACT:
*Apple admitted to the crime of reducing the life of iPhones, nospam.*
o The fact you apologists deny all facts doesn't change that they're facts.

> also, ios updates support phones as much as 6 years old.

There's no way for you apologists to not be _immune_ to facts so I'll state
the facts for the _adults_ on this newsgroup, who can comprehend facts.

The fact that iOS updates phones that are six years old is _meaningless_
when that update throttles _more_ iPhones in each update!

Also, the fact iOS updates six year old phones is _meaningless_ when we
realize that the app functionality of those iPhones is primitive compared
to Android, where a six year old Android phone likely has far more hardware
and certainly far more app functionality than _any_ iPhone ever sold.

A _simple_ example is the utterly primitive app launcher on iOS compared to
the modern app launchers that work even on a six year old Android phone.

I realize you apologists are fantastically _immune_ to facts; but I state
these well-known facts for the _adults_ on this newsgroup to ponder.

> android is lucky to get 3 years of updates, so that's at least two
> android phones, probably three, in the 6 years of ios support.

The fact that iOS updates frequently and that iOS updates a six year old
phone is absolutely meaningless when those iOS updates _throttle_ phones
which weren't throttled prior to the updates, nospam.

Also, the fact that the app functionality on even the latest iOS release is
fantastically primitive compared to even Android functionality of six years
ago, proves that fact.

In addition, the fact that iOS us essentially untested in the real world is
yet another fact that proves that your claim that the mere fact that the
primitive iOS release "fits" older phones, is meaningless in terms of
actual functionality, safety, and privacy on those phones.

Your entire argument, nospam, is a parroting of bullshit Apple marketing.

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-02-28 2:40 p.m., Ned Latham wrote:
> Alan Baker wrote:
>> Ned Latham wrote:

>>> Alan Baker wrote:
>>>> Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>

>>> ----snip----
>>>
>>>>> So I don't care what apple does. I care about my mobile devices,
>>>>> all android except an ebook. I want easily replaceable batteries
>>>>> and spares. If it needs a law to force sense, so be it.
>>>>
>>>> Why not just let the marketplace decide?
>>>
>>> When big companies collude, the market gets no decision.
>>
>> Where is your evidence that big companies are colluding on this.
>

> Where did I say that they're colluding on this?

When you said, "When big companies collude, the market gets no
decision." as an answer to "Why not just let the marketplace decide?"

>
>> Samsung wants very much to be more attractive for buyers of smartphones
>> than Apple.
>
> They are, except for the gulls.
>
>> If removable batteries would make that so, why aren't they doing it?
>
> Three factors:
> 1. Manufacture is simplified;

And therefore costs are lower and buyers like that.

> 2. People don't complain enough about bad features.
> 3. They don't listen enough to customer feedback.

And yet no company is making a killing selling phones that include a
feature you claim is critically important to so many...

Odd.

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-02-28 3:07 p.m., Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 28/02/2020 23.24, Alan Baker wrote:
>> On 2020-02-28 12:34 p.m., Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> On 28/02/2020 20.29, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>> On 2020-02-28 10:53 a.m., Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>>> On 28/02/2020 13.29, nospam wrote:

>>>>>> In article <1n8nigx...@minas-tirith.valinor>, Carlos E. R.

Can't.

Got it.

>
>
>
>
>>>>>> the battery normally outlasts the phone. people get a new phone before
>>>>>> the battery needs to be replaced. it's a non-issue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> also, the batteries *are* replaceable, it might require a screwdriver
>>>>>> rather than a fingernail to get to it, but for something that's done
>>>>>> maybe once in 3-5 years, that's not an issue whatsoever.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's not "user replaceable".
>>>>
>>>> If you have to use a screwdriver, that makes it not "user-replaceable"?
>>>
>>> Sometimes.
>>
>> Nope. Some other factor might make that so, but not simply the need to
>> use a screwdriver.
>
> So, sometimes :-)

Nope. You should take a course in basic logic.

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-02-28 3:17 p.m., Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 28/02/2020 23.56, nospam wrote:

>> In article <o7coigx...@minas-tirith.valinor>, Carlos E. R.

>> <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>>> I care very much about the battery, but I can not buy the phone I want
>>>>> with user replaceable batteryy
>>>>
>>>> not enough people like you that care to where it's worthwhile for
>>>> device makers to make such a phone.
>>>
>>> Nay, they collude.
>>
>> no they don't.
>>
>> there is no collusion or global conspiracy to make all batteries
>> internal.
>>
>> what they do is make products that they think will sell well. some
>> companies do that better than others.
>
>
> Ha, ha
>
>>

>>>>>>> I have one device that the battery is glued, and removing it safely is
>>>>>>> not trivial. The trick seems to be to pass a dental floss behind it.
>>>>>>> Then I have to open the battery, remove the electronics, and solder them
>>>>>>> to the new battery. Don't argue, it just is. :-D
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For a regular person, replacing the battery means going to a
>>>>>>> professional.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> in that particular case it would, but for something done once in 3-5
>>>>>> years, it doesn't matter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It does matter. It is quite difficult to replace, it is not plug and
>>>>> play. And the correct battery is impossible to find.
>>>>
>>>> maybe that particular case, but nearly always, replacement batteries
>>>> are easily found, often with tools to open the phone.
>>>
>>> So not user replaceable class.
>>
>> it *is* user replaceable, with replacement batteries available from
>> amazon and other sellers.
>>
>> it takes a couple of minutes instead of 15 seconds, which is not an
>> issue for something done once in 3-5 years.
>
> rather three hours.

Cite, please.

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-02-28 3:22 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> On 28 Feb 2020 18:56:05 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:
>
>>> And yes, my phone has an earphone jack and FM radio. Very happy about
>>> that and no problems with it.
>>
>> Both of those would be useless to me. Again, you don't speak for
>> everyone. In fact I believe you're in the tiny minority.
>
> Tiny minority?
> o Only to an apologist like JR is over 99% a "tiny minority"!

Where is your proof of "99%"

>
> *I love when Jolly Roger posts because he is the quintessential apologist*.
> o *Notice the apologists are utterly clueless about Android capabilities*!
>
> For example, it's a fact that over 99% of current Android phones have the
> desired functionality of a headphone jack, which is basic functionality.
> o How many of the existing Android phones lack headphone jack basic hardware functionality?
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/ZjnD2kAf-mI/I3i2jT-mCAAJ>
>
> Notice the classic Apple user is fantastically _clueless_ on functionality!
>
> Jolly Roger is the canonical Apple user so we must listen very carefully to
> what he actually believes, which is that he believes 99% is a "tiny
> minority".

Provide proof.

>
> Little wonder the apologists don't ever seem to comprehend fact & reason!
> o *How can apologists claim 99% is a "tiny minority" and be believed?*

Provide proof.

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 28 Feb 2020 21:24:31 -0800, Alan Baker wrote:

>> o Only to an apologist like JR is over 99% a "tiny minority"!
>
> Where is your proof of "99%"

Apologists are like flat earthers, which Alan Baker just proved for us.

Apologists like Alan always prove to be fantastically immune to facts.

They can't even _find_ the cites in the very posts that they responded to!
--
Apologists don't even click on the cites before brazenly denying them!

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-02-28 9:34 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Feb 2020 21:24:31 -0800, Alan Baker wrote:
>
>>> o Only to an apologist like JR is over 99% a "tiny minority"!
>>
>> Where is your proof of "99%"
>
> Apologists are like flat earthers, which Alan Baker just proved for us.
>
> Apologists like Alan always prove to be fantastically immune to facts.
>
> They can't even _find_ the cites in the very posts that they responded to!
>

You've provided a bald assertion.

I've asked you to prove it.

You're replied by attacking me for asking.

It really says everything anyone needs to know...

...about you...

...Liar.

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 28 Feb 2020 21:40:37 -0800, Alan Baker wrote:

> I've asked you to prove it.

You apologists always play the same childish games, Alan Baker.

You just proved you never even clicked on the cites already provided.

Fancy that: An apologist proving he's fantastically immune to facts.

Just like flat earthers.
--
Apple doesn't make those ungodly profits on an intelligent customer.

[Ned Latham]

Alan Baker wrote:
> Ned Latham wrote:
> > Alan Baker wrote:
> > > Ned Latham wrote:
> > > > Alan Baker wrote:
> > > > > Carlos E. R. wrote:
> > > >
> > > > ----snip----
> > > >
> > > > > > So I don't care what apple does. I care about my mobile
> > > > > > devices, all android except an ebook. I want easily
> > > > > > replaceable batteries and spares. If it needs a law to

> > > > > > Mforce sense, so be it.

> > > > >
> > > > > Why not just let the marketplace decide?
> > > >
> > > > When big companies collude, the market gets no decision.
> > >
> > > Where is your evidence that big companies are colluding on this.
> >
> > Where did I say that they're colluding on this?
>
> When you said, "When big companies collude, the market gets no
> decision." as an answer to "Why not just let the marketplace decide?"

Get a clue. It's a general statement.

> > > Samsung wants very much to be more attractive for buyers of
> > > smartphones than Apple.
> >
> > They are, except for the gulls.
> >
> > > If removable batteries would make that so, why aren't they doing it?
> >
> > Three factors:
> > 1. Manufacture is simplified;
>
> And therefore costs are lower and buyers like that.

*Manufacturers* like that.

> > 2. People don't complain enough about bad features.
> > 3. They don't listen enough to customer feedback.
>
> And yet no company is making a killing selling phones that include a
> feature you claim is critically important to so many...

You should learn to read. I've made no such claim.

[Carlos E. R.]

On 29/02/2020 02.46, nospam wrote:
> In article <84poigx...@minas-tirith.valinor>, Carlos E. R.
> <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Or just force the manufacturer to design with user replaceable
>> batteries, and any aunt can do it, safely and easily, in minutes :-P
>
> internal batteries offer a number of advantages, including longer run
> time, more reliability, easier to make the device thinner & lighter and
> water resistant, all things that benefit users every day, versus making
> a task that might occur once every few years a little easier.

Blah blah blah.

The main advantage is "cheaper". The rest is blah blah blah.

>
> forcing a company to forego all of that would be *bad*. very bad.

Ha ha

>
> also, aunts don't keep their phones long enough to where they would
> need to replace the battery at all, nor do sisters or cousins.
>
> the internal battery normally lasts longer than the phone itself does
> and rarely needs replacing at all. nothing is perfect and it could fail
> prematurely, but that's the exception, not the rule.
>

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[Carlos E. R.]

My own experience.

>
>>
>>>
>>> or do what most people do, and that's get a new phone, not because the
>>> battery is dead, but because the phone is 5 years old and can't run the
>>> latest apps.
>>>
>>
>>
>

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[nospam]

In article <gsrpigx...@minas-tirith.valinor>, Carlos E. R.

<robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:

> >> Or just force the manufacturer to design with user replaceable
> >> batteries, and any aunt can do it, safely and easily, in minutes :-P
> >
> > internal batteries offer a number of advantages, including longer run
> > time, more reliability, easier to make the device thinner & lighter and
> > water resistant, all things that benefit users every day, versus making
> > a task that might occur once every few years a little easier.
>
> Blah blah blah.

no.

> The main advantage is "cheaper". The rest is blah blah blah.

actually, it's not necessarily cheaper, but if it is, that's a good
thing.

an internal battery can be larger and with longer run time than one
that's easily removed, which means it will cost *more* because it's a
higher capacity battery.

longer run time is *not* blah blah.

there may be manufacturing optimizations to reduce the cost.

whether the final cost to manufacture is higher or lower is unknown,
and depends on many factors.

[Wolffan]

On 29 Feb 2020, Carlos E. R. wrote
(in article <v5spigx...@minas-tirith.valinor>):

Your incompetence is not a general problem.

[Wolffan]

On 28 Feb 2020, Carlos E. R. wrote
(in article <5tooigx...@minas-tirith.valinor>):

Lack of support for your position verified again and again and again. You
stated ‘Nah. Waste of time.’ rather than even attempt to support your
position. It is evident that you _cannot_ support your position.

[Wolffan]

On 28 Feb 2020, Ned Latham wrote
(in article<slrnr5jarg.2...@woden.valhalla.oz>):

> Panthera Tigris Altaica wrote:
>
> ----snip----

>
> > It is my opinion that 30-35 minutes every four years is not a major
> > problem. Even if you were correct and it took three hours, or six times
> > as long, spending that time every four years is simply not a problem for
> > me. If it is for you, I really have to wonder about what on earth you do
> > that you can't spare 3 hours in four years.
>

> It *occurs* infrequenbtly, but it takes a biggish chunk of time out of
> *one* day.

It doesn’t take three hours. I’ve never exceeded _one_ hour to change a
supposedly ’not-replaceable’ battery in a cell phone. I find iFixit’s
teardowns to be extremely useful. It takes longer to run a major update on
the phone!

Note: I used to, I say again, USED TO, have an Android phone. It had a
replaceable battery, and this was a Very Good Thing (™) as the damn thing
would freeze solid.. silently. I’d find out that it was frozen when I
attempted to make a call. There would be no indication of when it froze, and
no notifications for calls missed while it was frozen. The only way to
reliably unfreeze it was to remove the battery, wait 10 seconds, and put the
battery back in. I junked it and replaced it with an iPhone... which did not
freeze and lose calls. And which had a ’non-replaceable’ battery which I
have replaced myself in less than an hour, and which I have only needed to
replace once over a period of five years. Frankly, the only reason to have a
quickly replaceable battery is if the phone is misbehaving or if you are just
too damn lazy. If the phone is misbehaving, junk it and get a phone which
doesn’t give trouble. If you’re too damn lazy, fuck off.

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 28 Feb 2020 23:58:33 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> (no, I laugh because you actually believe that)

Welcome to the world of Apple newsgroups, Carlos.
o Apple newsgroups are quite unlike the adult OS newsgroups.

These apologists always prove to be not like normal people.
o *Apologists own a completely imaginary belief system.*

Completely devoid of any sense of logic or reason.
o Apologists prove to be fantastically _immune_ to facts.

I suspect that's why they gravitate to highly marketed products.
o Apologists gravitate to the mere _illusion_ of functionality.

Which, let's be frank, Apple Marketing is happy to provide them.
--
You don't make ungodly profits off intelligent people after all.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 07:18:49 -0500, nospam wrote:

> actually, it's not necessarily cheaper, but if it is, that's a good
> thing.

*How is prematurely replacing millions of batteries good for the environment?*

The apologists like nospam always fail to comprehend adult logic.

What matters is not so much that it's cheaper for the OEM to have one less
design constraint because cheaper to manufacture has to translate to
cheaper for the consumer - where - we all know the facts - iPhones are, by
far, the worst choice any consumer can make in terms of price to
performance calculations (and in atrocious overall costs of ownership).

Yet cheaper isn't the point of this thread... Apple's bullshit stance on
the environment is the key issue the European regulators will be tackling.

Apple prematurely replaced 11 million batteries in one year alone, for
example, as I recall (we can look up the exact numbers, but it's not a
small amount of batteries that Apple's tactics forced consumers to
prematurely replace).

*How is prematurely replacing millions of batteries good for the environment?*

> an internal battery can be larger and with longer run time than one
> that's easily removed, which means it will cost *more* because it's a
> higher capacity battery.

Apple isn't making those ungodly profits off of an intelligent customer
base after all.

It's why iPhones enjoy an ungodly profit margin which contributes to
iPhones historically having an utterly atrocious overall cost of ownership
model.

You don't make all that profit off of an intelligent consumer base.

> longer run time is *not* blah blah.
> there may be manufacturing optimizations to reduce the cost.

Reducing cost to the OEM is meaningless to the consumer, nospam.
o It doesn't trickle down to the consumer on an iPhone.

Those ungodly profit margins are coming from the consumer, nospam.

After all, Apple doesn't make those ungodly profit margins on an
intelligent consumer base.

> whether the final cost to manufacture is higher or lower is unknown,
> and depends on many factors.

What we do know is that iPhone owners enjoy a historically atrocious
overall cost of ownership model.

Worse, Apple forces consumers to prematurely replace their batteries, about
every year on the older phones in fact (where we proved that from the
start).

How is forcing consumers to constantly prematurely replace batteries good
for the environment nospam?
--
Apologists incessantly parrot what Apple Marketing feeds them to believe.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 08:34:59 -0500, Wolffan wrote:

> It doesnĒt take three hours. IĒve never exceeded _one_ hour to change a
> supposedly Ēnot-replaceableĒ battery in a cell phone. I find iFixitĒs

> teardowns to be extremely useful. It takes longer to run a major update on
> the phone!

I strongly suspect Wolffan is simply a ~BD~ sock, and as such, intelligent
people need to realize that the topic is environmental waste, and not how
long it takes to prematurely replace iPhone batteries every year or few.

Apologists like ~BD~/Wolffan may simply be very good at prematurely
replacing their batteries, since they have to do it often.

We Android users don't enjoy prematurely replacing batteries, where, as I
recall, Apple prematurely replaced something like 11 million of them in one
year along (we can dig up the thread on that topic if we must).

Bear in mind Apple throttles more and more phones with every iOS release...

The adult question to ask apologists like Wolffan/~BD~ is the following:
o *How is forever prematurely replacing batteries good for the environment?*
--
Apple's stance on the environment is easily shown to be masterful bullshit.

[Wolffan]

On 29 Feb 2020, Arlen Holder wrote
(in article <r3dq4l$33i$1...@news.mixmin.net>):

> On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 08:34:59 -0500, Wolffan wrote:
>

> > It doesn¢t take three hours. I¢ve never exceeded _one_ hour to change a
> > supposedly ¢not-replaceable¢ battery in a cell phone. I find iFixit¢s

> > teardowns to be extremely useful. It takes longer to run a major update on
> > the phone!
>
> I strongly suspect Wolffan is simply a ~BD~ sock,

you’d be wrong. That’s not anything new. Fuck off, troll-boy.

[Carlos E. R.]

So, you recourse to insults? That classifies you.


--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[Wolffan]

On 29 Feb 2020, Carlos E. R. wrote

(in article <3k6qigx...@minas-tirith.valinor>):

Nah. No insults, just facts. If you really take three hours to change a
battery, you’re incompetent. It’s that simple.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 09:29:13 -0500, Wolffan wrote:

> you˘d be wrong. That˘s not anything new. Fuck off, troll-boy.

Adults notice these apologists _instantly_ turn to fifth-grade vitriolic
hatred in response to basic questions, which, I repeat for this apologist.

Given Apple prematurely forces the replacement of millions of batteries...

The adult question to ask apologists like Wolffan/~BD~ is the following:
o *How is forever prematurely replacing batteries good for the environment?*
--

Apologists turn to instant hatred when asked simple reasonable questions.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 14:47:15 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> So, you recourse to insults? That classifies you.

Carlos,

Welcome to the world of these child-like Apple apologists!

Their _instant_ response to anything logical and reasonable is to resort to
their fifth-grade vitriolic personal hatred of anyone with a logical
assessment.

Just watch.