How many of the existing Android phones lack headphone jack basic hardware functionality?

[arlen holder]

Two simple factual questions to flesh out the answer with facts.
Q1: How many Android phones have been made to date?
Q2: How many of those (what percentage?) lack the headphone jack?

Does anyone have any idea how *many* Android phones have existed?
o I am trying to calculate the _percentage_ which lack headphone jacks

Here are the phones that are said to be missing the headphone jack:
o Essential PH-1
o Google Pixel 2
o Google Pixel 2 XL
o HTC 10 Pro/Lifestyle
o HTC Bolt
o HTC U Play
o HTC U Ultra
o HTC U11
o HTC U11+
o Huawei Mate 10 Pro
o Huawei Mediapad M5
o LeEco Le 2
o LeEco Le 2 Pro
o LeEco Le Max 2
o LeEco Le Pro 3
o LeEco Le S3
o Lenovo Moto Z
o Lenovo Moto Z Force Droid
o Nokia 8 Sirocco
o Razer Phone
o Smartisan Juanguo Pro
o Xiomi MIX2 & Mi 6
o Xperia XZ2
<https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2018/02/25/phones-no-3-5mm-jack-headphone/>

Since then, in December 2018, Samsung added this:
o Samsung Galaxy A8
<https://www.tomsguide.com/us/galaxy-a8s-specs-price-headphone-jack,news-28801.html>

Two factual questions are asked to better understand the market:
Q1: How many Android phones have been made to date?
Q2: How many of those (what percentage?) lack the headphone jack?

[Libor Striz]

arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> Wrote in message:

> Two simple factual questions to flesh out the answer with facts.
> Q1: How many Android phones have been made to date?
> Q2: How many of those (what percentage?) lack the headphone jack?

It may be hard to track such numbers.
It may be easier to track the trend in model percentage.

My 2 cents,
Sony Xperia M dual had it
Xiaomi MI A1 has it
Xiaomi MI A2 does not have it.(nor SD slot)



?Does anyone have any idea how *many* Android phones have existed?o I am trying to calculate the _percentage_ which lack headphone jacksHere are the phones that are said to be missing the headphone jack:o Essential PH-1o Google Pixel 2o Google Pixel 2 XLo HTC 10 Pro/Lifestyleo HTC Bolto HTC U Playo HTC U Ultrao HTC U11o HTC U11+o Huawei Mate 10 Proo Huawei Mediapad M5o LeEco Le 2o LeEco Le 2 Proo LeEco Le Max 2o LeEco Le Pro 3o LeEco Le S3o Lenovo Moto Zo Lenovo Moto Z Force Droido Nokia 8 Siroccoo Razer Phoneo Smartisan Juanguo Proo Xiomi MIX2 & Mi 6o Xperia XZ2<https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2018/02/25/phones-no-3-5mm-jack-headphone/>Since then, in December 2018, Samsung added this:o Samsung Galaxy A8<https://www.tomsguide.com/us/galaxy-a8s-specs-price-headphone-jack,news-28801.html>Two factual questions are asked to better understand the market:Q1: How many Android phones have been made to date? Q2: How many of those (what percentage?) lack the headphone jack?


--
Poutnik ( the Wanderer )



----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

[Libor Striz]

Libor Striz <poutnik4R...@gmailCAPITALS.com.INVALID> Wrote in message:

>Xiaomi MI A2 does not have it.(nor SD slot)

P.S.: But A2 package includes USB-C to 3.5jack reduction.

I apologize for the mess I accidentally did not clean up in previous reply.

[arlen holder]

On Mon, 4 Mar 2019 16:19:26 +0100 (GMT+01:00), Libor Striz wrote:

> Xiaomi MI A2 does not have it.(nor SD slot)

Hi Poutnik,

Thanks for the addition of the Xiomi A2 to the list of phones sans jacks.
o All I care about are the facts, since facts are the basis of my beliefs.

This is the current list of the known Android phones sans jacks:

o Essential PH-1
o Google Pixel 2
o Google Pixel 2 XL

o Google Pixel 3

o HTC 10 Pro/Lifestyle
o HTC Bolt
o HTC U Play
o HTC U Ultra
o HTC U11
o HTC U11+
o Huawei Mate 10 Pro
o Huawei Mediapad M5
o LeEco Le 2
o LeEco Le 2 Pro
o LeEco Le Max 2
o LeEco Le Pro 3
o LeEco Le S3
o Lenovo Moto Z
o Lenovo Moto Z Force Droid
o Nokia 8 Sirocco
o Razer Phone
o Smartisan Juanguo Pro

o T-Mobile G1
o Xiaomi MI A2
o Xiomi MIX2
o Xiomi Mi 6
o Xperia XZ2
o (any others?)

That's about two dozen phones, some of which are a decade old.

A key question is how many Android phone models are there?
(The reason I ask is to calculate the percentage.)

Do you think there are a thousand Android phone models?
Or maybe only five hundred Android phones over time?

How many Android phone models do we think existed?

[arlen holder]

On Mon, 4 Mar 2019 16:25:33 +0100 (GMT+01:00), Libor Striz wrote:

> P.S.: But A2 package includes USB-C to 3.5jack reduction.

Hi Poutnik,
I'm not sure _how_ to handle that detail ... but thanks for the facts!

Here is the current list of known Android phones lacking the jack:
o Essential PH-1
o Google Pixel 2 & Pixel 2XL
o Google Pixel 3 & Pixel 3XL

o HTC 10 Pro/Lifestyle
o HTC Bolt
o HTC U Play
o HTC U Ultra

o HTC U11 & U11+

o Huawei Mate 10 Pro
o Huawei Mediapad M5

o LeEco Le 2 & Le 2 Pro

o LeEco Le Max 2
o LeEco Le Pro 3
o LeEco Le S3

o Lenovo Moto Z & Moto Z Force Droid

o Nokia 8 Sirocco
o Razer Phone
o Smartisan Juanguo Pro

o T-Mobile G1
o Xiaomi MI A2
o Xiomi MIX2

o Xiomi Mi 6
o Xperia XZ2
o (any others?)

FACT + LOGIC:
Q: What percentage of Android phone models lack basic HW jacks?
(HINT: Is it even close to 2 percent?)

[Libor Striz]

arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> Wrote in message:

> FACT + LOGIC:Q: What percentage of Android phone models lack basic HW jacks?(HINT: Is it even close to 2 percent?)

I think a good estimation for the current model offer
could be a search in some good e-shop search engine/aggregator
with a rich search options.

Searching without and with the limitation "having 3.5mm audio jack"

I use a local Czech one, so a particular link would be just illustrative:
http://heureka.cz

[arlen holder]

On Mon, 4 Mar 2019 19:31:07 +0100 (GMT+01:00), Libor Striz wrote:

> Searching without and with the limitation "having 3.5mm audio jack"

We already know there are roughly about two dozen non-jack Android phones.

My guess of a thousand was WAY off, as there are 24,000 UNIQUE Android
device types that have installed the OpenSource Signal app alone!
<https://qz.com/472767/there-are-now-more-than-24000-different-android-devices/>

Given there are at least 24,000 unique Android models, and that there are
roughly two dozen models sans the headphone jack, that math works out to
about one tenth of one percent (if I did the math right).

That could mean the number of Android devices sans headphone jacks
o Could be as low as one tenth of one percent of all Android devices

I had _expected_ a very low percentage; but not _that_ low.
o The question is how many different Android mobile devices are there?

[arlen holder]

On Mon, 4 Mar 2019 23:34:26 -0000 (UTC), arlen holder wrote:

> I had _expected_ a very low percentage; but not _that_ low.
> o The question is how many different Android mobile devices are there?

Yikes.

There are _far_ more unique types of Android devices out there!
o Youl never guess how many different Android devices are available
<https://bgr.com/2015/04/15/android-sales-2015-smartphones-tablets-smartwatches/>

Try 18,000 unique Android devices were for sale as of April 15th, 2015.

The total number of devices over the past decade, is astoundingly high!

If we simply assume 24,000, that makes the non-headphone jack phones only a
mere one tenth of a single percent of the Android phones out there.

Which is almost nothing.
o So it's likely _not_ a "trend" to lose Android headphone jack hardware!

[Libor Striz]

arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> Wrote in message:

> On Mon, 4 Mar 2019 19:31:07 +0100 (GMT+01:00), Libor Striz wrote:

>> Searching without and with the limitation "having 3.5mm audio jack".

> We already know there are roughly about two dozen non-jack Android phones.

Where do we know this number from ?

Are we sure the count is exhaustive
and it is not just enumeration of known types ?

Is there available comparison of models between years to know the trend ?

[arlen holder]

On Tue, 5 Mar 2019 05:15:59 +0100 (GMT+01:00), Libor Striz wrote:

>> We already know there are roughly about two dozen non-jack Android phones.
>
> Where do we know this number from ?

WARNING: Adult conversation below (requires comprehension of math).

Hi Poutnik,
You say you have a degree in chemistry, right?
o That means you should understand the scientific process, right?
o And, that means you have basic fundamentals of statistics, right?

1. You state a claim, publicly
2. You are NEVER AFRAID OF FACTS!
3. You request ADDITIONAL FACTS as you IMPROVE the process

The math is fundamental to that process.
o There's stuff you know
o And there's stuff you don't know

For the stuff you don't know ... you assess how much the MATH will change.

In addition, everything is a PUBLIC process, Poutnik.
o I'm ASKING for facts
o I'm CLAIMING they are the BEST we have (so far).

If you have BETTER facts ... then please ADD THEM!
o The more facts we have, the better the scientific process.

> Are we sure the count is exhaustive
> and it is not just enumeration of known types ?

o Did Dmitri Mendeleev know the number of elements when he started?
o Did Antoine de Lavoisier know the total list of "simple substances"?
o Did Adolf Patera know how to make uranium glass at first?

The scientific process starts with a public display of the facts
o Facts + adult logic

I never expect more (or less) from you, or myself, or anyone, Poutnik.
1. Facts, plus
2. Adult logic (based on those facts)

> Is there available comparison of models between years to know the trend ?

What we're sure of is:
a. This is the best we have so far as anyone has proposed, and,
b. If you (or anyone) has _more_ facts ... then please ADD THEM!

Both you and I, Poutnik, have college degrees, where we both had to take
college level math, where I'm certain you are very familiar with
significant figures and orders of magnitude.

Notice that we can easily show that, in 2015, there were 24 thousand unique
models (depending on how OpenSignal characterized a "model" of course) that
ran the OpenSignal application.

Also notice that, in 2015, another paper cited about 18,000 Android devices
when talking about a European monopolistic lawsuit against Google.

Ignoring that the number in 2019 is undoubtable much greater, just taking
*half* those numbers of 2015 nets us, in even numbers, about ten thousand
unique Android models.

If we can only find about two dozen Android models that lack the headphone
jack (to date), then what do you THINK is going to change in the "order of
magnitude" of the percentage of models?

Do you get my point, Poutnik?
o It's OBVIOUS to any cognizant adult that the PERCENTAGE isn't going to
change greatly.

On the one hand, we have THOUSANDS, and on the other hand, we can only find
two dozen.

Don't you see the MAGNITUDE of the math, Poutnik?
o The point is that the percentage of Android devices sans this hardware is
utterly miniscule in terms of the number of Android devices that have been
made.

It's on the order of magnitude of far less than a single percentage point!

WARNING: Adult conversation below!

Dear Poutnik,
I expect everyone but the apologists to be an adult on this newsgroup.
The apologists will make wild claims such as what nospam says.
But I expect the rest of us to be ADULTS.

We use FACTS and we use adult LOGIC.

While there _are_ at least two dozen Android devices sans headphone jacks,
the astoundingly huge majority (over 99A%) of Android devices apparently
_do_ have headphone jacks (for all we know).

Do you have BETTER facts Poutnik?
o I'm not _afraid_ of facts (since facts form the basis of my belief system).
o As such, I fully agree we can always use more and better facts

But if these are the best facts we have, then these are the best facts we
have.

Even with better facts, it seems that it would take a HUGE quantum shift to
change the number by any appreciable amount, does it not?

[Libor Striz]

arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> Wrote in message:

> On Tue, 5 Mar 2019 05:15:59 +0100 (GMT+01:00), Libor Striz wrote:>> We already know there are roughly about two dozen non-jack Android phones.> > Where do we know this number from ?

You seem to me since the beginning
as having unstable personality
with troubles in social interaction.

Consider this topic already closed for me.

[arlen holder]

On Tue, 5 Mar 2019 15:29:55 +0100 (GMT+01:00), Libor Striz wrote:

> You seem to me since the beginning
> as having unstable personality
> with troubles in social interaction.

Hi Poutnik,

This thread is about Android headphone jacks, is it not?
o You clearly have huge emotional problems with this factual question:

Why?
o What is your emotional problem with this factual question, Poutnik?

Be advised, I'm not a psychologist - so I can't understand your problems:
o Let alone can I solve your huge emotional problems, Poutnik

This thread is simply a trivially simple thread asking for hardware fact.
o Yet you keep bringing up your huge emotional problem with this question

Why do you have such huge emotional problems with a simple question?

Outside of your huge emotional problems, Poutnik, are these facts:
1. This thread is on the Android newsgroup
2. This thread is about simple facts about the Android hardware
3. This thread asks about headphone jack facts on the Android hardware

I openly admit I do not comprehend your emotional problems, Poutnik.
o You repeatedly exhibit emotional problems with this simple question

Clearly, you have emotional problems on this simple question, Poutnik.

Please help us understand your emotional problems, Poutnik:
Q: What is your emotional problem with this simple factual question?

[arlen holder]

On Mon, 4 Mar 2019 18:03:26 -0000 (UTC), arlen holder wrote:

> This is the current list of the known Android phones sans jacks:

Hooray for cheap, effective & reliable basic consumer friendly hardware functionality!

It's clear to all adults that over 99.5% of Android devices have the basic
consumer friendly hardware functionality of a reliable headphone jack,
where the total and complete loss of headphone jacks simply builds the
divide and conquer wall higher and thicker and stronger and more
impenetrable.

Loss of the headphone jack was described by the "Verge" as "user hostile"
o Taking the headphone jack off phones is user-hostile and stupid
o Have some dignity
<https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2016/6/21/11991302/iphone-no-headphone-jack-user-hostile-stupid>

That article cites piece-of-shit Android phones to compare with iPhones:
o Why did LeEco ditch the headphone jack?
<https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2016/6/9/11893044/leeco-headphone-jack-usb-c-smartphones>

o The Moto Z has no headphone jack
<https://www.theverge.com/2016/6/10/11900992/moto-z-specs-no-headphone-jack>

While it's old news that POS phones often try to emulate Apple marketing,
the good news is that the upcoming iPad _will_ have this "courageous" basic
hardware functionality!
o Upcoming $330 7th Generation 2019 iPad to retain the "courageous" headphone jack
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.ipad/Kjg56ZSslWM>

Hooray for basic hardware functionality!
Hooray for consumer friendly hardware functionality!
Hooray for cheap, effective & reliable basic consumer friendly hardware functionality!

[123456789]

arlen holder wrote:

> Hooray for cheap, effective & reliable basic consumer
> friendly hardware functionality!

Hooray for product CHOICE be it cheap or premium. And let
the market decide...

[I R A Darth Aggie]

On Sat, 9 Mar 2019 08:35:00 -0700,
123456789 <12...@12345.com>, in

I was thinking that the airlines would be against bluetooth, but
they're more flexible than I anticipated.

https://traveltips.usatoday.com/rules-using-bluetooth-airplane-109323.html

Well, other than

Air Canada allows bluetooth headphones, but only once the plane
has reached at least 10,000 feet and only if the battery is
removable.

I do have a Motorola ear piece that used a AAA battery, so not
completely impossible.

--
Consulting Minister for Consultants, DNRC
I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow
isn't looking good, either.
I am BOFH. Resistance is futile. Your network will be assimilated.

[123456789]

I R A Darth Aggie wrote:

> 123456789 wrote:
>> arlen holder wrote:

>>> Hooray for cheap, effective & reliable basic
>>> consumer friendly hardware functionality!

>> Hooray for product CHOICE be it cheap or premium. And
>> let the market decide...

> I was thinking that the airlines would be against
> bluetooth, but they're more flexible than I anticipated.

Even if Bluetooth was banned, most (all?) current phones
that are without a standard earphone jack can still use
wired earphones...

[NY]

"123456789" <12...@12345.com> wrote in message
news:q6c23l$fra$1...@dont-email.me...

> Even if Bluetooth was banned, most (all?) current phones
> that are without a standard earphone jack can still use
> wired earphones...

I'm not sure I follow that bit. If the phone doesn't have an earphone jack,
how can wired earphones be used with it?

The removal of earphone/mic sockets on modern phones, tablets and laptops is
a case of putting all your eggs in one basket: if the bluetooth device
doesn't work (flat battery, inability to pair) or is not permitted (aircraft
below 10,000 feet etc or device doesn't have a removable battery) then you
are stuffed, whereas with a socket you have a fallback of wired earphones.
But with no socket on the phone, the wired earphones are useless.

I listen to a lot of audio books, and the battery in my bluetooth receiver
lasts a couple of hours, so it's good to have the option of changing to
wired earphones to carry on listening while the bluetooth receiver is being
recharged.

[Anssi Saari]

"NY" <m...@privacy.net> writes:

> "123456789" <12...@12345.com> wrote in message
> news:q6c23l$fra$1...@dont-email.me...
>> Even if Bluetooth was banned, most (all?) current phones
>> that are without a standard earphone jack can still use
>> wired earphones...
>
> I'm not sure I follow that bit. If the phone doesn't have an earphone
> jack, how can wired earphones be used with it?

Those phones usually ship with a USB adapter in which one can plug their
wired headphones.

[nospam]

In article <I9OdnbUaudbaohfB...@brightview.co.uk>, NY

<m...@privacy.net> wrote:

> > Even if Bluetooth was banned, most (all?) current phones
> > that are without a standard earphone jack can still use
> > wired earphones...
>
> I'm not sure I follow that bit. If the phone doesn't have an earphone jack,
> how can wired earphones be used with it?

what it doesn't have is an *analog* headphone jack.

it has a modern digital headphone jack, aka usb-c or lightning port.

the wired headphones that are included in the box plug into that port.

there are also adapters for using older analog headphones.

> The removal of earphone/mic sockets on modern phones, tablets and laptops is
> a case of putting all your eggs in one basket: if the bluetooth device
> doesn't work (flat battery, inability to pair) or is not permitted (aircraft
> below 10,000 feet etc or device doesn't have a removable battery) then you
> are stuffed, whereas with a socket you have a fallback of wired earphones.
> But with no socket on the phone, the wired earphones are useless.

there is a socket on the phone and the bundled headphones work fine.

> I listen to a lot of audio books, and the battery in my bluetooth receiver
> lasts a couple of hours, so it's good to have the option of changing to
> wired earphones to carry on listening while the bluetooth receiver is being
> recharged.

using wired headphones is always available, as are bluetooth headphones
that last longer than a couple of hours on a single charge, with some
as much as 20 hours (or more).

[123456789]

NY wrote:

> if the bluetooth device doesn't work (flat battery,
> inability to pair) or is not permitted (aircraft below
> 10,000 feet etc or device doesn't have a removable
> battery) then you are stuffed,

I haven't been on a plane in over 25 years, but don't they
have standard USB charger ports available?

BTW I used to feel the same way about manufacturers taking
away my battery door but I've been over 3 years now without
one with no problems. I suspect I'll also survive when the
analog earphone jacks are gone...

> I listen to a lot of audio books, and the battery in my
> bluetooth receiver lasts a couple of hours

Perhaps time to get a new one. I was looking at some in
Target yesterday that claimed to last 7 to 10 hours.

[nospam]

In article <q6dtrg$u7k$1...@dont-email.me>, 123456789 <12...@12345.com>

wrote:

>
> > if the bluetooth device doesn't work (flat battery,
> > inability to pair) or is not permitted (aircraft below
> > 10,000 feet etc or device doesn't have a removable
> > battery) then you are stuffed,
>
> I haven't been on a plane in over 25 years, but don't they
> have standard USB charger ports available?

older planes usually have empower/cigarette lighter (15v), recent
planes usually have mains power and very recent planes have usb.

> BTW I used to feel the same way about manufacturers taking
> away my battery door but I've been over 3 years now without
> one with no problems. I suspect I'll also survive when the
> analog earphone jacks are gone...

yep.

> > I listen to a lot of audio books, and the battery in my
> > bluetooth receiver lasts a couple of hours
>
> Perhaps time to get a new one. I was looking at some in
> Target yesterday that claimed to last 7 to 10 hours.

yep.

[sms]

On 3/13/2019 2:57 PM, I R A Darth Aggie wrote:
> On Sat, 9 Mar 2019 08:35:00 -0700,
> 123456789 <12...@12345.com>, in
> <q60mf4$86j$1...@dont-email.me> wrote:
>> arlen holder wrote:
>>
>>> Hooray for cheap, effective & reliable basic consumer
>>> friendly hardware functionality!
>>
>> Hooray for product CHOICE be it cheap or premium. And let
>> the market decide...
>
> I was thinking that the airlines would be against bluetooth, but
> they're more flexible than I anticipated.
>
> https://traveltips.usatoday.com/rules-using-bluetooth-airplane-109323.html
>
> Well, other than
>
> Air Canada allows bluetooth headphones, but only once the plane
> has reached at least 10,000 feet and only if the battery is
> removable.
>
> I do have a Motorola ear piece that used a AAA battery, so not
> completely impossible.

I am so tired of batteries, power adapters, and charger cords, taking up
so much space in my luggage.

On a trip I am planning for later this year, I'm trying hard to minimize
all of this.

I'd much rather use a wired set of earbuds than deal with Bluetooth.

[arlen holder]

On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 11:18:50 -0500, nospam wrote:

> what it doesn't have is an *analog* headphone jack.

As usual, nospam parrots a page out of the marketing playbook.
o There is FACT and then there is _logic_ derived from that fact.

What nospam doesn't say is the actual fundamental rationale for removing
basic functionality (which, BTW, is still in 99.5% of all Android phones).

HINT: It wasn't "courage"... (it was "sleaze")...

IMHO, the main reason marketing removed the analog headphone jack?
o $$$

[Arlen Holder]

UPDATE:

Apparently, there are, amazingly, still people who buy the less than 1% of
Android phones that lack the basic functionality of a headphone jack!

It's hard to believe that such dumb people exist, but apparently they do.

For details, please see this thread today, by "micky"
o for those phones without earphone jacks:
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/RfUHFOuk41k/amISSi_rFQAJ>

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 17:51:16 -0700, sms wrote:

> I am so tired of batteries, power adapters, and charger cords, taking up
> so much space in my luggage.
>
> On a trip I am planning for later this year, I'm trying hard to minimize
> all of this.
>
> I'd much rather use a wired set of earbuds than deal with Bluetooth.

The good news is that the EU is considering passing a law forcing
manufacturers to be more environmentally friendly in terms of using common
recharger hardware and making batteries user replaceable according to news
this week posted over here recently...
o All new iPhones might be forced to have a removable battery (Android too)
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/0zzVpdtAa_k/9YXi1ZFWCwAJ>

Interestingly, the apologists like Jolly Roger claim that 99% is a "tiny
minority" of people who have headphone jacks on Android, which, you have to
admit, is kind of funny.
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/0zzVpdtAa_k/UUtZGhWXCwAJ>

The apologists think the entire world is as restricted as the Apple
ecosystem, they're _that_ clueless.

Let's hope the law goes through because currently, Apple's stance on the
environment is pure bullshit in light of the fact they prematurely force
you to replace your batteries or be faced with the stark choice of:
o Choose unacceptable performance, or,
o Choose unacceptable stability.
(You MUST choose ONE!)

--
Apple doesn't make ungodly profits off of intelligent consumers after all.

[John B.]

On Fri, 28 Feb 2020 23:23:58 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder
<arlen.geo...@is.invalid> wrote:

>On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 17:51:16 -0700, sms wrote:
>
>> I am so tired of batteries, power adapters, and charger cords, taking up
>> so much space in my luggage.
>>
>> On a trip I am planning for later this year, I'm trying hard to minimize
>> all of this.
>>
>> I'd much rather use a wired set of earbuds than deal with Bluetooth.
>
>The good news is that the EU is considering passing a law forcing
>manufacturers to be more environmentally friendly in terms of using common
>recharger hardware and making batteries user replaceable according to news
>this week posted over here recently...
>o All new iPhones might be forced to have a removable battery (Android too)
><https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/0zzVpdtAa_k/9YXi1ZFWCwAJ>

That reference says "might be required" and goes on to say " it's
currently not even out in the public, as it was leaked by Dutch
publication Het Financieele Dagblad, claiming to have seen leaked
documents of the impending suggested change."

As an aside, I don't believe I've looked at a name brand phone in
several years that didn't have an integral battery.Which is not to
say that they don't exist as I normally will be interested only in the
middle of the price range.

Again as an aside, I think - I don't know but I think, that integral
batteries are usually larger and give better service than removable
batteries. Again based on my experiences with middle of the line name
brand phones.

>Interestingly, the apologists like Jolly Roger claim that 99% is a "tiny
>minority" of people who have headphone jacks on Android, which, you have to
>admit, is kind of funny.
><https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/0zzVpdtAa_k/UUtZGhWXCwAJ>



>The apologists think the entire world is as restricted as the Apple
>ecosystem, they're _that_ clueless.
>
>Let's hope the law goes through because currently, Apple's stance on the
>environment is pure bullshit in light of the fact they prematurely force
>you to replace your batteries or be faced with the stark choice of:
>o Choose unacceptable performance, or,
>o Choose unacceptable stability.
>(You MUST choose ONE!)
--

cheers,

John B.

[nospam]

In article <15fj5fdr4d1i4cvha...@4ax.com>, John B.

<jbsl...@fictitious.site> wrote:

>
> Again as an aside, I think - I don't know but I think, that integral
> batteries are usually larger and give better service than removable
> batteries. Again based on my experiences with middle of the line name
> brand phones.

this is correct.

internal batteries can be any shape and do not need space for the
battery bay, contacts and a cover, plus they're more reliable.

[sms]

On 2/28/2020 5:32 PM, John B. wrote:

<snip>

> That reference says "might be required" and goes on to say " it's
> currently not even out in the public, as it was leaked by Dutch
> publication Het Financieele Dagblad, claiming to have seen leaked
> documents of the impending suggested change."
>
> As an aside, I don't believe I've looked at a name brand phone in
> several years that didn't have an integral battery.Which is not to
> say that they don't exist as I normally will be interested only in the
> middle of the price range.
>
> Again as an aside, I think - I don't know but I think, that integral
> batteries are usually larger and give better service than removable
> batteries. Again based on my experiences with middle of the line name
> brand phones.

Another reason for non-removable batteries is that it's much easier to
achieve IP67 or IP68 (water resistance) without a battery door. Ditto
for headphone jacks. While I have thus far only purchased phones with
headphone jacks, I'm pretty sure that my next phone will not have one
(probably a Samsung Note 20).

[The Real Bev]

I hate using ANY bluetooth devices -- their battery hunger is
disgusting. And then you'll be running down TWO sets of batteries...



--
Cheers, Bev
"I used to be convinced that MicroSquish shipped crap because they
simply didn't give a flying fuck as long as the sheep kept buying
their shit. Now, I'm convinced that they really do ship the best
products they are capable of writing, and *that's* tragic."
- John C. Randolph, about MS quality control.

[nospam]

In article <r3ch30$ag7$1...@dont-email.me>, The Real Bev

<bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> I hate using ANY bluetooth devices -- their battery hunger is
> disgusting. And then you'll be running down TWO sets of batteries...

then you're using the wrong devices.

bluetooth headphones get 20-30 hours of run time and keyboards and mice
get many months of run time on a single charge. other devices can last
a year or more.

[John B.]

On Fri, 28 Feb 2020 17:59:17 -0800, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
wrote:

We just came back from shopping and one of the stores had one of those
kiosks, sign up for a year contact with ABC telephone and we'll give
you a phone for $4.00... Anyway, I counted 14 different phones that
they had on offer and not a one of them had a removable battery :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

[123456789]

John B. wrote:
> We just came back from shopping and
> one of the stores had one of those

> kiosks... I counted 14 different

> phones that they had on offer and not a
> one of them had a removable battery :-)

I bought a TracFone TCL on the Target discount
rack for $15 a few months ago. Use it mainly as
an Android iPod (with that convenient but soon to
be obsolete headphone jack). And it has a (surprise)
removable battery.

In the interest of science I dropped it from 6 feet
three times and the battery didn't dislodge once. So
Carlos I guess that I'll take back my joke. Didn't seem
to go over so well with some folks anyway.

Phone's just fine BTW... ;)

[Carlos E. R.]

Wow :-D

Six feet and it survived!

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[Carlos E. R.]

On 29/02/2020 02.32, John B. wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Feb 2020 23:23:58 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder
> <arlen.geo...@is.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 17:51:16 -0700, sms wrote:
>>
>>> I am so tired of batteries, power adapters, and charger cords, taking up
>>> so much space in my luggage.
>>>
>>> On a trip I am planning for later this year, I'm trying hard to minimize
>>> all of this.
>>>
>>> I'd much rather use a wired set of earbuds than deal with Bluetooth.
>>
>> The good news is that the EU is considering passing a law forcing
>> manufacturers to be more environmentally friendly in terms of using common
>> recharger hardware and making batteries user replaceable according to news
>> this week posted over here recently...
>> o All new iPhones might be forced to have a removable battery (Android too)
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/0zzVpdtAa_k/9YXi1ZFWCwAJ>
>
> That reference says "might be required" and goes on to say " it's
> currently not even out in the public, as it was leaked by Dutch
> publication Het Financieele Dagblad, claiming to have seen leaked
> documents of the impending suggested change."

The news I have seen, by the way, doesn't say the battery will be
replaceable with a click. There are other needs like waterproofing. Nor
does it apply only to phones, it includes all devices, like earphones.
It is not clear if it is user replaceable or simply easier to replace. I
hope that also include a mandate to sell battery replacements.

About recycling, the intention is that we do not have to throw away a
device (any device) when the battery dies. It is not about easy
recycling of the device, but about reusing.

Also, the news I have seen doesn't say "iphones will". Rather "consumer
electronic devices will..." ;-)

But anyway, what I saw was excerpted and translated to Spanish. I don't
read Dutch.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[nospam]

In article <8nrpigx...@minas-tirith.valinor>, Carlos E. R.

<robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:

> > That reference says "might be required" and goes on to say " it's
> > currently not even out in the public, as it was leaked by Dutch
> > publication Het Financieele Dagblad, claiming to have seen leaked
> > documents of the impending suggested change."
>
> The news I have seen, by the way, doesn't say the battery will be
> replaceable with a click. There are other needs like waterproofing. Nor
> does it apply only to phones, it includes all devices, like earphones.
> It is not clear if it is user replaceable or simply easier to replace. I
> hope that also include a mandate to sell battery replacements.

that would destroy the bluetooth headphone industry.

in-ear bluetooth headphones are too small to have anything other than
an internal battery while maintaining the runtime and reliability that
users want. this is nothing new either.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:AirPods.jpg>
<https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61AD9R7BnBL._SY450_.jp
g>
<https://images.crutchfieldonline.com/ImageHandler/trim/620/378/products
/2018/41/143/g143MOMTNTW-o_other23.jpg>

larger bluetooth headphones does have the space, but not everyone wants
something big:
<https://www.did.ie/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/450x450/9df78eab
33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/h/d/hd4.40bt_5.jpg>

> About recycling, the intention is that we do not have to throw away a
> device (any device) when the battery dies. It is not about easy
> recycling of the device, but about reusing.

that might be the intention but it won't guarantee that people actually
do it.

new products are released very often and people want the latest and
greatest. the older products drop in value and often times not worth
selling and end up being thrown away.

> Also, the news I have seen doesn't say "iphones will". Rather "consumer
> electronic devices will..." ;-)

that's worse.

[123456789]

Carlos E. R. wrote:

> About recycling, the intention is that we do not have to throw away
a
> device (any device) when the battery dies. It is not about easy
> recycling of the device, but about reusing.

Perhaps they could make a phone updating law too? My last phone
(Motorola Turbo 2) stopped updating after around a year. When it
finally broke after 3 years it was way behind. A replaceable battery
law alone won't help that...

Course getting behind can be a good thing cause when my current phone
updated to Android 10 it broke this Groundhog newsreader that I've
been using for many years. Fortunately this Amazon Fire 7 tablet ($29
on sale) still runs it. Another query. Having paid $29 for this
device am I really going to pay $29 for a battery to fix it when it's
old instead of getting a new one? Answer: If course because when
Amazon is forced to include a battery bay it won't cost $29
anymore...

[Frank Slootweg]

123456789 <12...@12345.com> wrote:
> Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
> > About recycling, the intention is that we do not have to throw away
> > a device (any device) when the battery dies. It is not about easy
> > recycling of the device, but about reusing.
>
> Perhaps they could make a phone updating law too?

Actually, 'they' - the EU - *are* making such a 'law' (regulation),
which - from 2021 - requires sellers (note sellers) to make sure that a
"device minimally keeps functioning at the same level as at the time of
purchase".

This is not just for smartphones, but also for TVs and other 'smart'
devices.

The period for mandatory updates will most likely be device-type
dependent and is still being worked on, but is likely to be 4 years for
smartphones.

I could not find EU/English references, only Dutch/Dutch ones.

If you want to have a look:

<https://www.google.nl/search?q=verplichte+updates+voor+telefoon>

A rather specific, official and recent one:

<https://www.internetconsultatie.nl/verkoop_goederen_levering_digitale_inhoud>

N.B. 'Overheid' in Overheid.nl means government.

> My last phone
> (Motorola Turbo 2) stopped updating after around a year. When it
> finally broke after 3 years it was way behind. A replaceable battery
> law alone won't help that...

[...]

[Carlos E. R.]

On 29/02/2020 18.16, 123456789 wrote:
> Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>> About recycling, the intention is that we do not have to throw away a
>> device (any device) when the battery dies. It is not about easy
>> recycling of the device, but about reusing.
>
> Perhaps they could make a phone updating law too? My last phone
> (Motorola Turbo 2) stopped updating after around a year. When it finally
> broke after 3 years it was way behind. A replaceable battery law alone
> won't help that...

That would be a dream.

Notice that "updates" doesn't necessarily mean update to the latest
android, but that it gets security updates for the version which was
originally sold.

> Course getting behind can be a good thing cause when my current phone
> updated to Android 10 it broke this Groundhog newsreader that I've been
> using for many years. Fortunately this Amazon Fire 7 tablet ($29 on
> sale) still runs it. Another query. Having paid $29 for this device am I
> really going to pay $29 for a battery to fix it when it's old instead of
> getting a new one? Answer: If course because when Amazon is forced to
> include a battery bay it won't cost $29 anymore...

In the case of phones, with some "luck" by the time my phone needs a new
battery it will also be out of updates, so one way or another we have to
replace them. But there are other devices. For instance, I replaced the
battery on a TomTom navigator (which was not easy, having to remove and
reconnect tiny and fragile cables); but I suspect the factory issued an
update that killed the USB connector forcing me to buy another
navigator. Or some of those tiny cables gave up.

Then there is my Kobo ereader. They don't sell the 3 wire battery it
needs, so I had to buy a 2 wire battery and will have to solder the
electronics. Maybe it will work, maybe not. Having to buy a new ereader
every 5 years kills the economics (for the user) of buying ebooks.

Then there are BT earphones. There are no software updates to them, but
they die with their batteries.



--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[nospam]

In article <aorqigx...@minas-tirith.valinor>, Carlos E. R.

<robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:

> Then there is my Kobo ereader. They don't sell the 3 wire battery it
> needs, so I had to buy a 2 wire battery and will have to solder the
> electronics. Maybe it will work, maybe not. Having to buy a new ereader
> every 5 years kills the economics (for the user) of buying ebooks.

looks like 3 wires on this one:
<https://www.batterytrader.com/kobo-touch-lp404252aru-ereader-battery-p-
43311.html>

[Carlos E. R.]

Yes, seems to be it. Last time I looked the price was prohibitive. It
still is too expensive (25 pounds)

As compared to:

<https://es.aliexpress.com/item/32808290101.html>

3.86€

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[nospam]

In article <8o3rigx...@minas-tirith.valinor>, Carlos E. R.

<robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:

> >> Then there is my Kobo ereader. They don't sell the 3 wire battery it
> >> needs, so I had to buy a 2 wire battery and will have to solder the
> >> electronics. Maybe it will work, maybe not. Having to buy a new ereader
> >> every 5 years kills the economics (for the user) of buying ebooks.
> >
> > looks like 3 wires on this one:
> > <https://www.batterytrader.com/kobo-touch-lp404252aru-ereader-battery-p-
> > 43311.html>
> >
>
> Yes, seems to be it. Last time I looked the price was prohibitive. It
> still is too expensive (25 pounds)

i didn't shop for the best price.

the point is that it *is* available.

> As compared to:
>
> <https://es.aliexpress.com/item/32808290101.html>
>

> 3.86¤

requires login.

[John B.]

Well, I had experience with a Huawei phone battery, which was not
removable by an amateur. Took it to Huawei, "Can this battery be
changed?" "Certainly Sir. It will be ready in two days".

In honesty I did not have the battery changed as I didn't like the
Huawei all that well so instead bought a new Samsung :-)

The point being, of course, that just because the battery dies you do
not have to throw the phone away.

At a later date I also asked a phone repairman whether an integral
battery could be changed and he said "sure".

>Also, the news I have seen doesn't say "iphones will". Rather "consumer
>electronic devices will..." ;-)
>
>But anyway, what I saw was excerpted and translated to Spanish. I don't
>read Dutch.
--

cheers,

John B.

[Carlos E. R.]

On 29/02/2020 23.13, nospam wrote:
> In article <8o3rigx...@minas-tirith.valinor>, Carlos E. R.
> <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>> Then there is my Kobo ereader. They don't sell the 3 wire battery it
>>>> needs, so I had to buy a 2 wire battery and will have to solder the
>>>> electronics. Maybe it will work, maybe not. Having to buy a new ereader
>>>> every 5 years kills the economics (for the user) of buying ebooks.
>>>
>>> looks like 3 wires on this one:
>>> <https://www.batterytrader.com/kobo-touch-lp404252aru-ereader-battery-p-
>>> 43311.html>
>>>
>>
>> Yes, seems to be it. Last time I looked the price was prohibitive. It
>> still is too expensive (25 pounds)
>
> i didn't shop for the best price.
>
> the point is that it *is* available.

At the time I saw it, their price was about half of the price of the
device, which to me is the same as "not available". And the guess was,
old stock.

Now the price is lower, but it is too late.

>> As compared to:
>>
>> <https://es.aliexpress.com/item/32808290101.html>
>>
>> 3.86¤
>
> requires login.

Weird, I got it without login.

Google for "easylander 404252"

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[123456789]

Carlos E. R. wrote:

> Then there is my Kobo ereader. They don't sell the 3 wire battery it
> needs, so I had to buy a 2 wire battery and will have to solder the
> electronics. Maybe it will work, maybe not. Having to buy a new
> ereader every 5 years kills the economics (for the user) of buying
> ebooks.

Why not use a tablet for an ereader? That's one less device to mess with
and throw in the trash when it fails. But if I recall we discussed this
awhile back didn't we? I think you were partial to the E-ink display? So
carry on...

> Then there are BT earphones. There are no software updates to them,
> but they die with their batteries.

Yup. I like the good old wired earphones. No battery worries, and no
volume deficiencies (I like em real loud)... ;)

[123456789]

Frank Slootweg wrote:

> 123456789 wrote:
>> Carlos E. R. wrote:

>>> About recycling, the intention is that we do not have to throw
>>> away a device (any device) when the battery dies. It is not about
>>> easy recycling of the device, but about reusing.

In my metro area (4+ mil) all but one city has a recycle program. But
much of that stuff was shipped to China for reuse. Recently China has
stopped taking a lot of it causing much of the recycled trash here to be
buried with the regular garbage. Such a waste. (Pun in poor taste
intended.) So I certainly agree with Carlos about reusing over recycling.

>> Perhaps they could make a phone OS updating law?

> Actually, 'they' - the EU - *are* making such a 'law'... The period

> for mandatory updates will most likely be device-type dependent and
> is still being worked on, but is likely to be 4 years for
> smartphones.

I bought a Chromebook awhile back. I got it late in the product cycle -
couldn't resist a 30% off sale. Unfortunately I later learned of
Google's 6 year end of life date (which starts with product launch)
after which there is no more support. Turns out I ended up with 3 years
left after purchase. Hope the the EU law works better than Google's...

[Carlos E. R.]

On 01/03/2020 00.38, 123456789 wrote:
> Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>> Then there is my Kobo ereader. They don't sell the 3 wire battery it
>>  needs, so I had to buy a 2 wire battery and will have to solder the
>>  electronics. Maybe it will work, maybe not. Having to buy a new
>> ereader every 5 years kills the economics (for the user) of buying
>> ebooks.
>
> Why not use a tablet for an ereader? That's one less device to mess with
> and throw in the trash when it fails. But if I recall we discussed this
> awhile back didn't we? I think you were partial to the E-ink display? So
> carry on...

Yes, I like e-ink for reading, it is easier on the eyes. I can read in
full sun. Then, I bought the ereader years before my first tablet. Ah,
and google doesn't know what I'm reading ;-p

Well, now that I remember, they read my email, so they find out what
kobo books I buy.

Ah, when the battery is in good health, it lasts about two weeks, maybe
more.

>> Then there are BT earphones. There are no software updates to them,
>> but they die with their batteries.
>
> Yup. I like the good old wired earphones. No battery worries, and no
> volume deficiencies (I like em real loud)... ;)

I don't remember what problems I had with the wired phones that made me
try the BT ones. Maybe I got tangled with the wire in bed, maybe because
I can move around in the room :-)

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[Ned Latham]

There's a lot of talk about support life-cycles, but one thing never gets
said: except for the planned obsolescence factor, why does it matter?

[123456789]

Carlos E. R. wrote:

> I bought the ereader years before my first tablet.
>Ah, and google doesn't know what I'm reading ;-p

To late for me. I buy my ebooks from Google. But I
often read them on this Amazon Fire tablet so do
both Google AND Amazon know... 8- O

[nospam]

In article <4b8rigx...@minas-tirith.valinor>, Carlos E. R.

<robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:

> >>>> Then there is my Kobo ereader. They don't sell the 3 wire battery it
> >>>> needs, so I had to buy a 2 wire battery and will have to solder the
> >>>> electronics. Maybe it will work, maybe not. Having to buy a new ereader
> >>>> every 5 years kills the economics (for the user) of buying ebooks.
> >>>
> >>> looks like 3 wires on this one:
> >>> <https://www.batterytrader.com/kobo-touch-lp404252aru-ereader-battery-p-
> >>> 43311.html>
> >>>
> >>
> >> Yes, seems to be it. Last time I looked the price was prohibitive. It
> >> still is too expensive (25 pounds)
> >
> > i didn't shop for the best price.
> >
> > the point is that it *is* available.
>
> At the time I saw it, their price was about half of the price of the
> device, which to me is the same as "not available". And the guess was,
> old stock.
>
> Now the price is lower, but it is too late.

you said you had to buy a 2 wire battery because a 3 wire battery is
not sold, except that it is sold.

> >> As compared to:
> >>
> >> <https://es.aliexpress.com/item/32808290101.html>
> >>

> >> 3.86?

> >
> > requires login.
>
> Weird, I got it without login.

you must have an account with them.

i do not nor do i wish to create one.

> Google for "easylander 404252"

i originally searched for 404252 battery.

[John B.]

That is this Google 6 year end of life thing? I've got a phone that is
more than 6 years old and it still works.
--
cheers,

John B.

[Ned Latham]

John B wrote:

That's the thing. I don't have 'phones that old but I do have computers
far older: one abt 19 yrs old and running XP. Both still running fine.

(Well, fine for "Doze. And I never let it see the internet.)

[123456789]

John B. wrote:

> 123456789 wrote:

>> I bought a Chromebook awhile back. I got it late in the product
>> cycle - couldn't resist a 30% off sale. Unfortunately I later
>> learned of Google's 6 year end of life date (which starts with
>> product launch) after which there is no more support. Turns out I
>> ended up with 3 years left after purchase.

> That is this Google 6 year end of life thing? I've got a phone that
> is more than 6 years old and it still works.

My Chromebook should continue to work just fine after its end-of-life
date. But it will lose all Google update and security support. And
security is (was?) one of Google's big selling points. Perhaps when the
time comes I will make it a Linuxbook...

[Ned Latham]

Now *that* sounds like a good idea.

[John B.]

The last two up-dates of my Samsung phone stated that they improved
the operation of the phone. The camera, in one case and I disremember
the other. Not a peep about security. I wonder how many updates are
really "security" updates and how many are simply to correct some
"goof" that a programmer made.

--
cheers,

John B.

[123456789]

John B. wrote:

> The last two up-dates of my Samsung phone stated that they improved
> the operation of the phone.

My last upgrade to my Samsung phone installed Android 10. No problems
except that it broke my Groundhog Usenet newsreader and I haven't been
able to find a good replacement. I'm currently using PhoNews but IMO it
sucks, but is better than nothing.

And to make my life complete a Chromebook upgrade broke my Android
CrossOver Windows emulator that allowed me to run the Windows Usenet
newsreader app SeaMonkey on the Chromebook. So I went to the Play Store
to try another download and Google has pulled the CrossOver app, unknown
why. So I'm stuck with PhoNews there too. (Chromebook security doesn't
allow sideloading.)

So upgrades are not always the blessed events they seem (IMO)... :-/

> I wonder how many updates are really "security" updates

Not sure but Samsung claims the following security update intervals:

https://security.samsungmobile.com/workScope.smsb

[Carlos E. R.]

On 01/03/2020 01.41, nospam wrote:
> In article <4b8rigx...@minas-tirith.valinor>, Carlos E. R.
> <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>>>> Then there is my Kobo ereader. They don't sell the 3 wire battery it
>>>>>> needs, so I had to buy a 2 wire battery and will have to solder the
>>>>>> electronics. Maybe it will work, maybe not. Having to buy a new ereader
>>>>>> every 5 years kills the economics (for the user) of buying ebooks.
>>>>>
>>>>> looks like 3 wires on this one:
>>>>> <https://www.batterytrader.com/kobo-touch-lp404252aru-ereader-battery-p-
>>>>> 43311.html>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, seems to be it. Last time I looked the price was prohibitive. It
>>>> still is too expensive (25 pounds)
>>>
>>> i didn't shop for the best price.
>>>
>>> the point is that it *is* available.
>>
>> At the time I saw it, their price was about half of the price of the
>> device, which to me is the same as "not available". And the guess was,
>> old stock.
>>
>> Now the price is lower, but it is too late.
>
> you said you had to buy a 2 wire battery because a 3 wire battery is
> not sold, except that it is sold.

Well, the day I did the purchase your link did not even appear in my
searches. It had appeared months before. And anyway, a battery priced at
50 euros seems a scam to me, it is not considered as available.

And yes, there are youtube videos on how to use the two wire battery.

>
>>>> As compared to:
>>>>
>>>> <https://es.aliexpress.com/item/32808290101.html>
>>>>
>>>> 3.86?
>>>
>>> requires login.
>>
>> Weird, I got it without login.
>
> you must have an account with them.
>
> i do not nor do i wish to create one.
>
>> Google for "easylander 404252"
>
> i originally searched for 404252 battery.

maybe they apply censorship to Americans because of your trade war :-P

Really, no login required here. I'm sure, I never logged into that site
on this laptop, I used the desktop machine

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[Frank Slootweg]

Carlos E. R. <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 01/03/2020 01.41, nospam wrote:
> > In article <4b8rigx...@minas-tirith.valinor>, Carlos E. R.
> > <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:

[...]

> >>>> As compared to:
> >>>>
> >>>> <https://es.aliexpress.com/item/32808290101.html>
> >>>>
> >>>> 3.86?
> >>>
> >>> requires login.
> >>
> >> Weird, I got it without login.
> >
> > you must have an account with them.
> >
> > i do not nor do i wish to create one.
> >
> >> Google for "easylander 404252"
> >
> > i originally searched for 404252 battery.
>
> maybe they apply censorship to Americans because of your trade war :-P
>
> Really, no login required here. I'm sure, I never logged into that site
> on this laptop, I used the desktop machine

FYI, I also get a login page, so "this laptop" must have *some*
knowledge of your AliExpress account.

[Frank Slootweg]

123456789 <12...@12345.com> wrote:

[...]

> My last upgrade to my Samsung phone installed Android 10. No problems
> except that it broke my Groundhog Usenet newsreader and I haven't been
> able to find a good replacement. I'm currently using PhoNews but IMO it
> sucks, but is better than nothing.
>
> And to make my life complete a Chromebook upgrade broke my Android
> CrossOver Windows emulator that allowed me to run the Windows Usenet
> newsreader app SeaMonkey on the Chromebook. So I went to the Play Store
> to try another download and Google has pulled the CrossOver app, unknown
> why. So I'm stuck with PhoNews there too. (Chromebook security doesn't
> allow sideloading.)

Does the Chromebook work with 'adb' et al on a 'real' computer
(Windows, Mac, Linux)? If so, installing the APK that way might be a
solution.

BTW, doesn't the Chromebook support backing up and restoring your
apps? If so, some 'creative' fiddling with your backup might be another
solution, i.e. modify the content of the backup, then restore the
modified content.

> So upgrades are not always the blessed events they seem (IMO)... :-/

[...]

[Arlen Holder]

On 1 Mar 2020 13:02:15 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> FYI, I also get a login page, so "this laptop" must have *some*
> knowledge of your AliExpress account.

When I type this into a browser and hit the "Enter" key:
<https://es.aliexpress.com/item/32808290101.html>

That URL instantly turns to this:
<https://login.aliexpress.com/?from=sm&return_url=http://es.aliexpress.com/item/32808290101.html>

And, of course, it gives me a big red rectangular "sign in" box.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sun, 1 Mar 2020 00:56:14 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> I don't remember what problems I had with the wired phones that made me
> try the BT ones. Maybe I got tangled with the wire in bed, maybe because
> I can move around in the room :-)

I think the assessment of the facts remains there are extremely few Android
phones (two dozen, many of which are no longer made) out of the many
thousands out there, that _don't_ have the headphone jack.
o How many of the existing Android phones lack headphone jack basic hardware functionality?
<https://comp.mobile.android.narkive.com/4qMP9zIt/how-many-of-the-existing-android-phones-lack-headphone-jack-basic-hardware-functionality>

*While _more_ than 99% of all Android models have the essential jack!*
o What's odd is Apple apologists are clueless of this basic fact.

Just this week, for example, on this Android newsgroup, the Apple apologist
Jolly Roger, defending the loss of the headphone jack on iPhones,
righteously loudly proclaimed those who desire headphone jacks (and/or FM
radio) were, in his words a "tiny minority".

See post #10 in this thread (Jolly Roger has a Google Archive removal bit):

o All new iPhones might be forced to have a removable battery (Android too)

<https://comp.mobile.android.narkive.com/6jG40cri/all-new-iphones-might-be-forced-to-have-a-removable-battery-android-too#post10>

This is instructive to understand how these strange Apple apologists think:
o Essentially, they think if it isn't on an iPhone, then nobody wants it.
a. If *removable batteries* aren't on iPhones, then nobody must want them.
b. If *FM radios* aren't on iPhones, then nobody must want them.
c. If *expansion slots* aren't on iPhones, then nobody must want them.
d. If *headphone jacks* aren't on iPhones, then nobody must want them.
etc.

I must commend Apple marketing for warping these gullible people's minds.

In fact, Apple Marketing has done their job superbly in convincing these
types of gullible people that the iPhone designers made the courageous
decision to give consumers "exactly" what everybody wants.
o What is the most brilliant marketing move Apple ever made?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/wW-fu0jsvAU/s6gu-hj2BwAJ>
--
Apple Marketing is well aware those ungodly profits come from utter fools.

[nospam]

In article <r3gflr$uvj$3...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen Holder

<arlen.geo...@is.invalid> wrote:

> I think the assessment of the facts remains there are extremely few Android
> phones (two dozen, many of which are no longer made)

not a fact.

the just released samsung galaxy s20 and note 10 do not have an analog
headphone jack, along with several phones from google, htc, moto and
several others.

they do, however, have a more capable digital headphone jack and
include usb-c headphones in the box, making it a non-issue.

or just use wireless bluetooth headphones, which are *extremely*
popular, no jack of any sort required and no wires to get tangled.

[123456789]

Frank Slootweg wrote:
> 123456789 wrote:

>> a Chromebook upgrade broke my Android CrossOver Windows emulator
>> that allowed me to run the Windows Usenet newsreader app SeaMonkey
>> on the Chromebook. So I went to the Play Store to try another
>> download and Google has pulled the CrossOver app, unknown why. So
>> I'm stuck with PhoNews there too. (Chromebook security doesn't
>> allow sideloading.)

> Does the Chromebook work with 'adb'

Apparently (I've not tried it) the Chromebook can run ADB but it
requires Crouton in order to run a Linux environment inside the Chrome
OS. ADB then runs from inside the Linux environment.

> If so, installing the APK that way might be a solution.

Trouble is that to do the above the Chromebook has to be put into
developer mode. And in developer mode sideloading IS permissable so the
ADB hassle is unnecessary to sideload apps such as Crossover.

The kink is that to switch from normal mode to developer mode (and back)
the Chromebook is AUTOMATICALLY wiped. So my sideloaded CrossOver (or
any app) would go away when I switched back.

I could just leave it in developer mode and it would work just fine. But
Google stops ALL support (including updates) while in developer mode.

> BTW, doesn't the Chromebook support backing up and restoring your
> apps?

When the Play Store removed CrossOver it also disappeared from my online
app library.

> If so, some 'creative' fiddling with your backup might be another
> solution, i.e. modify the content of the backup, then restore the
> modified content.

I really don't think I'm gonna outsmart Google, do you... ;)

[Carlos E. R.]

No, it doesn't. I'm certain. The browsing history would show, and there
would be saved passwords. And this laptop was not in use for several
weeks, including those of the purchase.

It did ask me yesterday once for my password, and I refused; then I
found other pages and I posted the link. Maybe it is aware of the
refusal and doesn't ask again.

In fact, if I try to access the link I have in the email with the
purchase, I'm asked to login. And Firefox doesn't know the password.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[Carlos E. R.]

Weird. If I open another FF profile I also get a login request. I don't
understand why. I certainly have no aliexpress credentials in this
computer. And I don't understand why they need any credentials just to
see a product. :-(

In the FF where it is working, under "My account" it clearly says I'm
not logged in, as it asks me to register or identify.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[Frank Slootweg]

123456789 <12...@12345.com> wrote:
> Frank Slootweg wrote:
> > 123456789 wrote:
>
> >> a Chromebook upgrade broke my Android CrossOver Windows emulator
> >> that allowed me to run the Windows Usenet newsreader app SeaMonkey
> >> on the Chromebook. So I went to the Play Store to try another
> >> download and Google has pulled the CrossOver app, unknown why. So
> >> I'm stuck with PhoNews there too. (Chromebook security doesn't
> >> allow sideloading.)
>
> > Does the Chromebook work with 'adb'
>
> Apparently (I've not tried it) the Chromebook can run ADB but it
> requires Crouton in order to run a Linux environment inside the Chrome
> OS. ADB then runs from inside the Linux environment.

Sorry, I meant the other way around.

Normally, 'adb' is used on a 'host' (Windows/Mac/Linux) and then
controls an Android device. So during its use, 'adb' is the master and
the Android device is the slave.

In your situation, your Chromebook is your Android device, so the
issue is not whether you Chromebook can *run* 'adb', but whether it -
acting as an Android device - can be *controlled* by 'adb' (which runs
on a Windows/Mac/Linux system).

But, you've implicitly given the answer, no, because - for all intents
and purposes - the Chromebook can not be put in developer mode and
developer mode is required for being controlled by 'adb':

> > If so, installing the APK that way might be a solution.
>
> Trouble is that to do the above the Chromebook has to be put into
> developer mode. And in developer mode sideloading IS permissable so the
> ADB hassle is unnecessary to sideload apps such as Crossover.
>
> The kink is that to switch from normal mode to developer mode (and back)
> the Chromebook is AUTOMATICALLY wiped. So my sideloaded CrossOver (or
> any app) would go away when I switched back.
>
> I could just leave it in developer mode and it would work just fine. But
> Google stops ALL support (including updates) while in developer mode.
>
> > BTW, doesn't the Chromebook support backing up and restoring your
> > apps?
>
> When the Play Store removed CrossOver it also disappeared from my online
> app library.

I assume that means that whatever backup procedure you use, the
Chromebook doesn't backup the actual APKs, but relies on the *list* of
apps, which the Play Store keeps for your device.

There have been some threads about the risks of losing one's (paid or
free) *media* (books, music, video). I guess this is a way to lose your
apps/software! :-) c.q. :-(

Did I already say that I backup *all* my stuff and do it to *local*
(not cloud) storage!? :-)

> > If so, some 'creative' fiddling with your backup might be another
> > solution, i.e. modify the content of the backup, then restore the
> > modified content.
>
> I really don't think I'm gonna outsmart Google, do you... ;)

Well, so far I did, see above! :-)

(AFAIC,) EOD.

[Frank Slootweg]

Yep, that seems to be the case. I cleared the login URL and re-entered
your posted URL and now it showed the product page. The question remains
*where* the knowledge of the refusal is stored, on your/my system or on
AliExpress' server.

Now I need Google Translate to figure out what the fsck this is all
about! :-)

[Carlos E. R.]

Right. :-D
Yes, of course, the page where they sell to Spain is in Spanish.

The important thing is a battery with the right size and code number,
but two wires instead of three. The comments somewhere mention that I
need the 3 wire version, and that we should get the 3 wire version, but
the site doesn't have it - or what is the same thing, I did not find it.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[123456789]

Frank Slootweg wrote:
> 123456789 wrote:

> for all intents and purposes - the Chromebook can not be put in
> developer mode and developer mode is required for being controlled
> by 'adb':

Right. There is no way (I can find) to use ADB or any sideloaded apps in
normal Chromebook operation.

>> When the Play Store removed CrossOver it also disappeared from my
>> online app library.

> I assume that means that whatever backup procedure you use, the
> Chromebook doesn't backup the actual APKs, but relies on the *list*
> of apps, which the Play Store keeps for your device.

Correct. Isn't that true of most all Android devices? And what good
would an APK of CrossOver do for me if it can't be sideloaded?

> There have been some threads about the risks of losing one's (paid
> or free) *media*

Actually I do keep an APK archive going back almost 10 years. But not so
much for losing my stuff as that often the old versions work better.

> (books,

Years ago I gave all my paper books away after reading. Never missed
them much. Now with hundreds of ebooks in my online accounts I'm not
sure I'd miss them much either. Though I sometimes do reread them. I
just started rereading Stephen King's The Stand where most of the world
is killed by a rogue virus. Appropriate for these days don't you think...

> music,

No online music for me. I buy all my music on $2 disks at the Goodwill
(charity) store and convert to mp3s. Love that headphone jack on my phone...

> video).

Netflix and Prime Video only here. Gave away all my video DVDs years ago.

> I guess this is a way to lose your apps/software! :-) c.q. :-(

Last I checked CrossOver was still available for download at the
website. Perhaps for those running permanent developers mode.

> Did I already say that I backup *all* my stuff and do it to *local*
> (not cloud) storage!? :-)

What are you gonna do when your house burns down? I do both. Rent 100G
from Google and keep a hidden card locally.

[Arlen Holder]

On 1 Mar 2020 20:55:44 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> Yep, that seems to be the case. I cleared the login URL and re-entered
> your posted URL and now it showed the product page. The question remains
> *where* the knowledge of the refusal is stored, on your/my system or on
> AliExpress' server.
>
> Now I need Google Translate to figure out what the fsck this is all
> about! :-)

On a proxy browser, I searched for the product number to using this URL:
<https://epicsearch.in/search?&q=ali+express+32808290101.html>

One of the top hits was this URL (which shows a product sans login):
<https://www.aliexpress.com/i/32808290101.html>

This URL also seems to work sans login need:
<https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32808290101.html>

Notice the lack of the "es" for Spain which was in the original URL:
<https://es.aliexpress.com/item/32808290101.html>

The weird thing is when I _then_ past in Carlos' "es" URL, it works!
o Dunno what's going on though, as that's just my experience just now.

[Frank Slootweg]

123456789 <12...@12345.com> wrote:
> Frank Slootweg wrote:
> > 123456789 wrote:

[...]

> > I assume that means that whatever backup procedure you use, the
> > Chromebook doesn't backup the actual APKs, but relies on the *list*
> > of apps, which the Play Store keeps for your device.
>
> Correct. Isn't that true of most all Android devices? And what good
> would an APK of CrossOver do for me if it can't be sideloaded?

My point is that if your backup procedure/program/app/<whatever>
could/would *backup* your APKs, it also could/would *restore* and APK.

Restoring an APK is not the same as sideloading an APK. So it could
well be that your your Chromebook could restore an APK, while it cannot
sideload an APK.

For example my brand-specific backup programs for Samsung and Huawei
can backup and restore APKs. AFAIR, the Samsung one - Kies 3 - does not
need developer mode. (The Huawei one - HiSuite - does.)

> > There have been some threads about the risks of losing one's (paid
> > or free) *media*
>
> Actually I do keep an APK archive going back almost 10 years. But not so
> much for losing my stuff as that often the old versions work better.

Same here.

[...]

> > Did I already say that I backup *all* my stuff and do it to *local*
> > (not cloud) storage!? :-)
>
> What are you gonna do when your house burns down? I do both. Rent 100G
> from Google and keep a hidden card locally.

(In addition to backup to a local NAS,) I have two portable USB-disks
which are rotated between two sites (home and another location). And I
*do* use 'the cloud' (Google Drive), but only for (encrypted) cumulative
incrementals.

[123456789]

Frank Slootweg wrote:
> 123456789 wrote:

> if your [Chromebook] backup procedure/program/app/<whatever>

> could/would *backup* your APKs, it also could/would *restore* and
> APK.

There's no such local backup procedure on my Chromebook. All the Android
apps are backed up online in the Play Store library. The Chromebook was
originally designed as an online device so really not much of a surprise
there.

> Restoring an APK is not the same as sideloading an APK. So it could
> well be that your your Chromebook could restore an APK, while it
> cannot sideload an APK.

I can download and store all the apk files I want. I just can't run
them. Makes sense from Google's security point of view.

> my brand-specific backup programs for Samsung and Huawei can backup
> and restore APKs.

I use an old version of Astro to generate my apk backups. It runs just
fine on all my Android devices (phones and tablets). But the current
Astro version from the Play Store won't make backups on the Chromebook
and I can't sideload the old version. And even if I could make the older
Astro app apks, the Chromebook wouldn't run them.

As I said earlier I don't think I'm going to outsmart Mr Google. He's
gonna keep me safe in spite of myself... ;)

However Google was nice to allow outside apps (developer mode) if I
really wanted to. Just like Amazon was nice enough to let me use the
Play Store (and its apps) alongside the Amazon App Store (and its apps)
on my Fire tablets. Big of em both don't you think...

> AFAIR, the Samsung one - Kies 3 - does not need developer mode. (The
> Huawei one - HiSuite - does.)

My Galaxy S10+ (Android 10) loads my old apks just fine though
like my broken Groundhog Newsreader they don't always work so fine. The
S10+ makes me acknowledge the sideloaded apk install danger in a popup
but in the end lets me do it.

> And I *do* use 'the cloud' (Google Drive), but only for (encrypted)
> cumulative incrementals.

I encrypt my Google Drive sensitive stuff. But not the rest. Heck,
Google employees need some good music to listen to from time to time,
don't you think... ;)

[Arlen Holder]

On Sun, 01 Mar 2020 09:59:51 -0500, nospam wrote:

> the just released samsung galaxy s20 and note 10 do not have an analog
> headphone jack, along with several phones from google, htc, moto and
> several others.

It's interesting that nospam _hates_ the lack of basic hardware
functionality on iPhones so much that he fails to comprehend what two dozen
models means, in terms of percentage of two dozen thousand Android devices.

The fact remains that over 99.5% of Android devices have this basic
functionality, which nospam hates because his beloved iPhones don't.
--
Apologists are quite unlike normal adults in that they're immune to math.

[John B.]

On Tue, 3 Mar 2020 02:59:02 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder
<arlen.geo...@is.invalid> wrote:

>On Sun, 01 Mar 2020 09:59:51 -0500, nospam wrote:
>
>> the just released samsung galaxy s20 and note 10 do not have an analog
>> headphone jack, along with several phones from google, htc, moto and
>> several others.
>
>It's interesting that nospam _hates_ the lack of basic hardware
>functionality on iPhones so much that he fails to comprehend what two dozen
>models means, in terms of percentage of two dozen thousand Android devices.
>
>The fact remains that over 99.5% of Android devices have this basic
>functionality, which nospam hates because his beloved iPhones don't.

It seems like an almost meaningless argument. If one wants a phone
with a headphone jack... why not just buy one with a headphone jack.
It's not as though one has to search the world over to find a phone
that has a headphone receptacle :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

[Arlen Holder]

On Tue, 03 Mar 2020 10:30:57 +0700, John B. wrote:

> It seems like an almost meaningless argument. If one wants a phone
> with a headphone jack... why not just buy one with a headphone jack.
> It's not as though one has to search the world over to find a phone
> that has a headphone receptacle :-)

Hi John B.,

This discussion is an offshoot mainly of the commonly well-known fact the
apologists like nospam always blame Apple's actions on Google and Samsung,
simply because these apologists _hate_ what Apple does so much, but they
love Apple, so they try to find someone _else_ other than Apple to blame.

This apologist named nospam is well known for blaming everyone but Apple
for Apple's design decisions, as outlined in this thread below:
o Why do both Apple & the apologists habitually blame everyone but Apple for Apple's poor design choices?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/Iee15bZl49I/i8xeBobOAAAJ>

Whenever someone claims they're upset that Apple "courageously" removed the
necessary basic headphone jack, nospam blames Google or Samsung for all of
Apple's design decisions.

Just watch.
--
Apologists hate what Apple is so much they try to blame everyone but Apple.

[John B.]

Well admittedly I haven't used an Apple product since they stopped
making the Apple II but there are a multitude of hand phones out
there. Simply peruse the specs and buy what you want.

Although it does seem that Samsung generally fits my "specs" :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

[Frank Slootweg]

123456789 <12...@12345.com> wrote:
> Frank Slootweg wrote:

[...]

> > And I *do* use 'the cloud' (Google Drive), but only for (encrypted)
> > cumulative incrementals.
>
> I encrypt my Google Drive sensitive stuff. But not the rest. Heck,
> Google employees need some good music to listen to from time to time,
> don't you think... ;)

That's nice of you.

For similar reasons, I *do* encrypt most of my stuff. I wouldn't want
to bore them to death with my Usenet postings, now would I!? :-)

[Arlen Holder]

On Tue, 03 Mar 2020 11:34:34 +0700, John B. wrote:

> Well admittedly I haven't used an Apple product since they stopped
> making the Apple II but there are a multitude of hand phones out
> there. Simply peruse the specs and buy what you want.
>
> Although it does seem that Samsung generally fits my "specs" :-)

Hi John B.,

I, for one, have always enjoyed and strived for as complete cross platform
compatibility as humanly possible, using freeware, & with privacy (e.g., no
highly marketed "cloud" solutions which are for the unwashed masses).

For decades, I've been using free solutions to make the connections between
the various platforms seamless, where, as one can imagine, the only hard
part is Apple products since they're expressly designed not to work
seamlessly with the rest of the world.

Hence, I have used all the common consumer platforms, Macs at schools,
Linux at home, and Windows at home and everywhere, in addition to Android &
iOS, both of which I also own.

This is just _one_ example of the seamlessness I have achieved, and which I
espouse others easily achieve, since it's so easily done once you know the
tricks (which are clever tricks, brilliant in fact, but simple once you are
aware of them).
o Simultaneously slide Windows Linux iOS Android files back and forth
over USB at 7GB per minute speeds using 100% native devices
(no proprietary software needed)
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/WqIDiVbawRs/pwxzu7LMCAAJ>

I have so many of this type of cross-platform freeware based privacy
enhanced tutorials on the net that I can't count them, where the reason I
strive for freeware and for documenting the steps is so that EVERYONE can
do what I do, as easily as I do it, for free, and with enhanced privacy.

It's who I am.
--
Two types of people are on Usenet: who add value & children who can't.

[123456789]

123456789 wrote (some time ago):

> And to make my life complete a Chromebook upgrade broke my Android
> CrossOver Windows emulator that allowed me to run the Windows Usenet
> newsreader app SeaMonkey on the Chromebook.

> So I went to the Play Store to try another download and Google has
> pulled the CrossOver app, unknown why.

I Just now noticed that the Play Store has the Crossover app back
again. So just loaded it on the Chromebook.

> So upgrades are not always the blessed events they seem (IMO)... :-/

And if this post flys perhaps the blessed events are back again...

[Abandoned Trolley]

On 28/02/2020 23:23, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 17:51:16 -0700, sms wrote:
>
>> I am so tired of batteries, power adapters, and charger cords, taking up
>> so much space in my luggage.
>>
>> On a trip I am planning for later this year, I'm trying hard to minimize
>> all of this.
>>
>> I'd much rather use a wired set of earbuds than deal with Bluetooth.
>
> The good news is that the EU is considering passing a law forcing
> manufacturers to be more environmentally friendly in terms of using common
> recharger hardware and making batteries user replaceable according to news
> this week posted over here recently...

> o All new iPhones might be forced to have a removable battery (Android too)

> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/0zzVpdtAa_k/9YXi1ZFWCwAJ>
>
> Interestingly, the apologists like Jolly Roger claim that 99% is a "tiny
> minority" of people who have headphone jacks on Android, which, you have to
> admit, is kind of funny.
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/0zzVpdtAa_k/UUtZGhWXCwAJ>
>
> The apologists think the entire world is as restricted as the Apple
> ecosystem, they're _that_ clueless.
>
> Let's hope the law goes through because currently, Apple's stance on the
> environment is pure bullshit in light of the fact they prematurely force
> you to replace your batteries or be faced with the stark choice of:
> o Choose unacceptable performance, or,
> o Choose unacceptable stability.
> (You MUST choose ONE!)
>



actually, I am not too impressed with their apparent policy on the use
of slave labour either.

AT

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

[Arlen Holder]

UPDATE:

This was posted today...by SMS
o *USB Headsets and Android€Why a 3.5mm Headset Jack is Still Necessary*
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/zIQqSBh98cY>

Reproduced below...

Our CTO bought a bunch of Microsoft LX-3000 USB headsets for us to use
on Zoom Teleconferences. They work fine under Windows.

I plugged it into my Samsung Note 9 (using a USB-A to USB-C adapter),
and while I can listen to music just fine, and while the microphone
works on phone calls, there is no audio through the earpieces during
phone calls. The audio is routed out through the phone's speaker during
phone calls.

Searching online, I found that this is a well-known issue with USB
headsets on Android devices. It's no big deal for now, since the Note 9
has a headset jack and I have an old analog headset with a boom
microphone to use, but going forward on newer Samsung phones, there is
no longer a 3.5mm headphone jack. You'd have to use a Bluetooth headset
which is something I want to avoid.

I've tried all of the usual suggestions, going into Developer Mode and
but "Audio Source" is now missing. I've tried a number of audio apps in
the Play Store but none of them solve the problem.

Everything seemed to break when Android Pie came out.

<https://www.reddit.com/r/AndroidQuestions/comments/aky5t5/android_pie_missing_audio_source_setting_in/>

[Arlen Holder]

This is an informative related post by rescuba in the Apple ng just now.
o *iPhone 12, iPhone 12Max, iPhone 12 Pro, & iPhone 12 Pro Max*
*[name, price, fitment, camera, screen, cpu, ram, & 5G specifications]*
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/widd86uqCyc>

... verbatim ...

Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 06:19:26 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <130520201116509609%nos...@nospam.invalid>
Message-ID: <050f45a7-5aa7-425b...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: iPhone 12, iPhone 12Max, iPhone 12 Pro, & iPhone 12 Pro Max [name, price, fitment, camera, screen, cpu, ram, & 5G specifications]
From: recscub...@huntzinger.com

On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 11:16:51 AM UTC-4, nospam wrote:
> geoff wrote:
>
> > >> Plugging my preferred headphones straight into them. At
> > >> At least without an additional kludge is the main thing.
> > >
> > > headphones plug straight into *every* iphone ever made, without
> > > any kludge at all, including the headphones *in* *the* *box*.
> >
> > How exactly, if no 3.5 ?
>
> by using the more capable and more reliable digital headphone
> jack found on modern smartphones, both ios and android.

We've been through this particular debate before. The problem
with Apple's Lightning port also incorporating the function of
the legacy 3.5mm headphone jack is at least the following trades:

a) Said port is proprietary and incurs a licensing fee,
which is a burden on headphone suppliers because of product
fragmentation and/or increased manufacturing costs.

b) Utilization of said port for a headset makes it non-available
for other uses, such as recharging the device. The work-around
is to buy a dongle, which again increases net consumer costs
because the device has functionally become less capable by only
having a single interface instead of two.

c) the argument about "including the headphones *in* *the* *box*"
assumes that they're not a piece of crap. Apple's "in the box"
headphones are for many people, a "piece of crap", which is why
there's a viable aftermarket.

For a personal example, Apple's headphones have *never* fit my
ear canals adequately - - they fall out at the slightest move.
As such, I can't wear them and *always* have to buy a 3rd Party
aftermarket set...and Apple's Lightning-to-3.5mm adaptor is no
longer included with their phones.

> > > the future is wireless. wired headphones (on any device)
> > > are very limiting.
> >
> > My reference headphones are wired only. An bluetooth is still
> > crap quality, if one is discerning.
>
> then you've not used better bluetooth headphones.
>
> however, even for the lesser models, the convenience of wireless
> is substantial. no longer is someone limited to 3 feet of wire,
> which will almost certainly get tangled or caught in something.

As opposed to the "certainty" of having a wireless earbud fall
out of one's ear and get lost?

Likewise, the relative convenience of not having a wire around
is a trade-off of having yet another device with a battery that
requires recharging and maintenance. Choose your poison.

> > Access for a 3.5\mm jack plug ? Without a kludge ?
>
> you did not specify an obsolete 3.5mm headphone jack.

Considering that Apple's brand new 2020 laptops have a 3.5mm
jack, it is incorrect to claim that interface as "obsolete".

Indeed, *every* Mac model that Apple sells today has the 3.5mm port:

https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro-13/specs/
https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro-16/specs/
https://www.apple.com/macbook-air/specs/
https://www.apple.com/mac-mini/specs/
https://www.apple.com/imac/specs/
https://www.apple.com/imac-pro/specs/
https://www.apple.com/mac-pro/specs/


> every iphone comes with headphones in the box, which plug
> directly into the iphone without any adapter.
>
> third parties also sell headphones that do the same.
>
> for older headphones, there is no kludge. connect an adapter
> to the 3.5mm plug ¡K

The adaptor is the klunge.

Now are those adaptors free? Nope.
Nor is one even included "in the box" anymore.

> prior to the iphone, ...

The introduction of the iPhone was ~13 years ago, which in
tech is "ancient history".

We can similarly note that we used Roman numerals before
Western Arabic numerals were adopted in the 9th century.

> transitions can be a hassle, but it's the only way to move
> technology forward.

Transitions are justified only when it is actually a step _forward_.

Given that the capabilities of an iPhone which lacks a 3.5mm
port are less than the capabilities of the same iPhone with,
just what the actual benefit is for the customer is not clear.

...particularly since a Lightning-based headset will work in
an iPhone which also has a 3.5mm jack - - but it now can't
do double-duty plugging into your Macintosh computer, because
the latter doesn't have a Lightning port.

-hh

--
Why not have _both_ choices?
o wireless
o wired

Over 99% of Android phones today already give the user _both_ choices!

o *How many of the existing Android phones lack headphone jack basic hardware functionality?*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/ZjnD2kAf-mI/I3i2jT-mCAAJ>
.....
The problem with MARKETING is that many people only believe what MARKETING
feeds them to believe instead of using factual rational reasoned logic.

[Arlen Holder]

UPDATE

verbatim

Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 11:29:10 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <150520201218251510%nos...@nospam.invalid>
Message-ID: <560875b4-3a5b-4cb7...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: iPhone 12, iPhone 12Max, iPhone 12 Pro, & iPhone 12 Pro Max [name, price, fitment, camera, screen, cpu, ram, & 5G specifications]
From: recscub...@huntzinger.com

On Friday, May 15, 2020 at 12:18:27 PM UTC-4, nospam wrote:
> > a) Said port is proprietary and incurs a licensing fee,
> > which is a burden on headphone suppliers because of product
> > fragmentation and/or increased manufacturing costs.
>

> the cost to headphone makers is negligible, and zero with an adapter.

Last time I checked, there's still Apple's $4 license fee.
That's why Apple's adaptor costs $9 on the Apple Store.

Similarly, 3rd party headphones are sold at a wide variety of
price points. For example, here's an Amazon listing for four
(4) sets for $13, which is less than $4 each:

<https://www.amazon.com/earphone-Stereo-Earbud-Headphones-Colors/dp/B07L1RQDJM/ref=sr_1_14?dchild=1&fst=as%3Aoff&qid=1589563829&refinements=p_36%3A1253503011&rnid=386442011&s=electronics&sr=1-14>

Adding a $4/plug license fee to this product would double its price.

Plus it isn't only about retail price, but also the burden
to manufacturers of then having to design/manufacture/sell two
products instead of one to have the same market coverage.

> > b) Utilization of said port for a headset makes it non-available
> > for other uses, such as recharging the device. The work-around
> > is to buy a dongle, which again increases net consumer costs
> > because the device has functionally become less capable by only
> > having a single interface instead of two.
>

> people normally use headphones when out, *away* from mains power,
> and batteries last long enough that it's not an issue anyway.

It is still an increase in the discrete number of battery based
systems which must be maintained by the user.

Plus when said internal batteries aren't serviceable, the product
has a finite life.

Wearing NC earbuds on flights is probably my #1 use and on
inter/transcontinental flights, they help me to sleep. The
battery life in the Apple Airpods is ~five hours per charge,
which means that they'll die even on just a trans-Atlantic flight.
Sure, they can be recharged, but that means really waking up
because they ran out, and then having to really wake up to put
them into their charger, and then not having them for the next
~hour of attempted sleep.

> however, if they do need to charge *and* listen at the same time
> (not a common use case),

During those flights above, because a non-stupid traveler
knows better than to land with a dead phone.

> they can put the phone on a wireless charging pad,

I literally have well over a million air miles and have never
seen anyone trying to use a wireless charging pad on a flight.

> and using bluetooth headphones, roam about the house without
> issue, even out into the yard.

Traditional BT is only good for 10m. Apple's 30m claim is
under ideal non-obstructed conditions, but since they're a
hard plastic design, are doomed for many to be dropped & lost.

> > c) the argument about "including the headphones *in* *the* *box*"
> > assumes that they're not a piece of crap. Apple's "in the box"
> > headphones are for many people, a "piece of crap", which is why
> > there's a viable aftermarket.
>

> not very many, since they're the most popular headphones used,

Because they count each set that comes in the box. QED.

> ...however, for those who do think they're crap, they can
> buy something else, which is...

...which is why there's a 3rd party market, even though much
of it for Apple customers now require the hassles of a dongle
to be used with current iPhones.

> > For a personal example, Apple's headphones have *never* fit my
> > ear canals adequately - - they fall out at the slightest move.
>

> try duct tape.

Unlike you, I still have hair.

> > As such, I can't wear them and *always* have to buy a 3rd Party
> > aftermarket set...and Apple's Lightning-to-3.5mm adaptor is no
> > longer included with their phones.
>

> add $10 to the price of the headphones. no big deal.

Which is +100% to the cost of a cheap set, and even +33% to
+50% to the cost of a basic set.

And if $10 really is not a big deal to you, then show it by mailing
$10 cash this week to each poster on USENET who's disagreed with you;
for me, my mailing address can be found in my domain registry.

> > > > > the future is wireless. wired headphones (on any device)
> > > > > are very limiting.
> > > >
> > > > My reference headphones are wired only. An bluetooth is still
> > > > crap quality, if one is discerning.
> > >
> > > then you've not used better bluetooth headphones.
> > >
> > > however, even for the lesser models, the convenience of wireless
> > > is substantial. no longer is someone limited to 3 feet of wire,
> > > which will almost certainly get tangled or caught in something.
> >

> > As opposed the the "certainty" of having a wireless earbud fall

> > out of one's ear and get lost?
>

> it's not a certainty.

Then neither is your claim of dire consequences from cords.


> it's *really* hard to get airpods to fall out, even when jumping,
> dancing, shaking one's head, etc., as numerous youtube videos
> demonstrate.

You're invited to come to my place, insert them in my ears
yourself without causing pain or injury and I'll jump/shake
for two minutes. Each time one falls out, you'll pay me $100
each time. Clock will stop for headphone reset each time.
If none of them fall out, I'll pay you $500 in cash. Post your
travel details and I'll livestream it for the readership to enjoy.



> other bluetooth headphones have fitted eartips, nubs that hold them in
> the ear or over the ear clips.

Even a blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut: congratulations!

> wired headphones are *more* likely to fall out due to the extra weight
> of the wire constantly tugging, and also risks getting caught, which
> will pull it out of the ear and sometimes cause damage.

That presumes an "all other factors equal", which doesn't apply
when the 3rd party product was chosen to have a different earpiece
from Apple's, such as a soft and/or fitted eartip.

> > Likewise, the relative convenience of not having a wire around
> > is a trade-off of having yet another device with a battery that
> > requires recharging and maintenance. Choose your poison.
>

> it is a tradeoff, and most people are choosing wireless over wired.

Sorry, but because as you noted that Apple provides a wired set
in every box, there's still more wired sets "being chosen" out there,
even when some fraction of them are later replaced.

> > > > Access for a 3.5\mm jack plug ? Without a kludge ?
> > >
> > > you did not specify an obsolete 3.5mm headphone jack.
> >
> > Considering that Apple's brand new 2020 laptops have a 3.5mm
> > jack, it is incorrect to claim that interface as "obsolete".
>

> it is obsolete, however, macbooks are an entirely different use case
> than phones, where they are often connected to legacy audio equipment.

I didn't say only Macbooks.

It is **every** Mac that Apple sells.


> it's very rare that anyone uses headphones with a macbook.

You've made it obvious that you've not been teleworking the past
two months, or for that matter, had been working in an office with
coworkers under age 40 for … oh, at least the past _decade_.

> > > every iphone comes with headphones in the box, which plug
> > > directly into the iphone without any adapter.
> > >
> > > third parties also sell headphones that do the same.
> > >
> > > for older headphones, there is no kludge. connect an adapter

> > > to the 3.5mm plug Š

> >
> > The adaptor is the klunge.
>

> it is not a kludge.

All dongles are kludges from not having the appropriate interface built-in.


> connectors change over time. i've listed several, including
> usb/serial, dvi/vga and usb-c/usb-a.

The point here includes noting that going from two connector
ports to just one degrades the capabilities of the product.

> > Now are those adaptors free? Nope.
> > Nor is one even included "in the box" anymore.
>

> $10, which is almost free.

Have you mailed out those $10 bills yet?

> > > prior to the iphone, ...
> >
> > The introduction of the iPhone was ~13 years ago, which
> > in tech is "ancient history".
>

> which means it's time to move forward.

>
> > We can similarly note that we used Roman numerals before
> > Western Arabic numerals were adopted in the 9th century.
>

> straw man.

Your numbering system is 1,100 years old - time to move on!

> > > transitions can be a hassle, but it's the only way to move
> > > technology forward.
> >
> > Transitions are justified only when it is actually a step _forward_.
>

> it is very much a step forward.
>
> the capabilities of a digital headphone jack are *significantly*
> greater than anything analogue can possibly do, opening up many more
> opportunities not previously possible, some of which are outlined
> below.
>
> it's also significantly more reliable, eliminating one of the most
> common failure points.

If Apple had put TWO lightning ports on their iPhones, I'd not be
as critical.

And FYI, Apple is making the same mistake with their Thunderbolt 3
ports: having only two of them on a laptop pretty much dooms the
customer to a net larger footprint from having to add a T3 "hub",
which is a step backwards in functional portability.


> another key advantage is that the space it took up can be better used
> for other purposes, plus it also makes sealing it against liquid and
> dirt incursion much easier.

So long as there's any open port, going from 2 to 1 doesn't make
a real difference. Plus there are waterproof versions of the 3.5mm
headphone jack, so "get rid of it" isn't the only available solution.

> > ...particularly since a Lightning-based headset will work in
> > an iPhone which also has a 3.5mm jack - - but it now can't
> > do double-duty plugging into your Macintosh computer, because
> > the latter doesn't have a Lightning port.
>

> except that almost nobody does that.

You've also not worked with "Mac people" since 2016 either.

> nevertheless, bluetooth headphones solves that problem.
At a cost. NSTAAFL applies.

[Arlen Holder]

UPDATE on salient facts...

Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 11:42:32 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <93463a17-42f8-441e...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: iPhone 12, iPhone 12Max, iPhone 12 Pro, & iPhone 12 Pro Max [name, price, fitment, camera, screen, cpu, ram, & 5G specifications]
From: recscub...@huntzinger.com

On Friday, May 15, 2020 at 1:15:42 PM UTC-4, Chris wrote:
> > a) Said port is proprietary and incurs a licensing fee,
> > which is a burden on headphone suppliers because of product
> > fragmentation and/or increased manufacturing costs.
>

> Yep. Meaning there are very, very few models available. Practically
> all, like 99%, current wired headphones are analogue.

On Amazon, it initially looks like there's a lot of options,
but one has to read the fine print for "...devices requires
lightning plug adaptor for iPhone 7..."

> > b) Utilization of said port for a headset makes it non-available
> > for other uses, such as recharging the device. The work-around
> > is to buy a dongle, which again increases net consumer costs
> > because the device has functionally become less capable by only
> > having a single interface instead of two.
>

> Yep. Have direct experience of this. Tried a third party dongle which
> doubled up the analogue port with a lightning. It was cheap crap that
> didn't last. Can't find any decent quality alternative.

Apple doesn't sell an OEM one. Closest one can come to it that
I've found so far is "Belkin Lightning Audio + Charge Rockstar"
for $40, plus then the $9 Apple OEM lightning-3.5mm dongle.

But since that's (just barely) under $50 (before taxes & shipping),
nospam will wave his hand as a supposedly trivial expense. /s

> > c) the argument about "including the headphones *in* *the* *box*"
> > assumes that they're not a piece of crap. Apple's "in the box"
> > headphones are for many people, a "piece of crap", which is why
> > there's a viable aftermarket.
>

> Yep. They sound poor and don't fit well being hard plastic.

You need to drill a hole in your head and use duct tape! /S

> >> however, even for the lesser models, the convenience of wireless
> >> is substantial. no longer is someone limited to 3 feet of wire,
> >> which will almost certainly get tangled or caught in something.
> >
> > As opposed the the "certainty" of having a wireless earbud fall
> > out of one's ear and get lost?
>

> Actually that's extremely rare. My kids regularly go on in runs
> with their AirPods and they never fall out.

Some people are lucky; I've a couple of coworkers who've
looked into creating rematched sets.

> > Likewise, the relative convenience of not having a wire around
> > is a trade-off of having yet another device with a battery that
> > requires recharging and maintenance. Choose your poison.
>

> Yep. They have a very limited lifetime compared to wired ones. I have
> headphones that are decades old. You can get Apple to "replace" the
> battery in AirPods, which basically means you get new ones and they through
> the old ones away.
>
> We're supposed to be reducing waste not increased it.

Having a user-replaceable battery is also a godsend too; I have
a (surprised I've not worn them out yet) set of NC buds that
uses a single AAA; just one spare Alkaline provides ~30 hours,
enough to last a week and get me home from any continent.

> > Given that the capabilities of an iPhone which lacks a 3.5mm
> > port are less than the capabilities of the same iPhone with,
> > just what the actual benefit is for the customer is not clear.
> >

> > ...particularly since a Lightning-based headset will work in
> > an iPhone which also has a 3.5mm jack - - but it now can't
> > do double-duty plugging into your Macintosh computer, because
> > the latter doesn't have a Lightning port.
>

> Nor anything else that traditionally has a headphone socket:
> radios, hifis, PCs, cars, etc.
>
> And then what happens when Apple changes the lightning port i.e.
> to move to USB-C? All the headphones will be definitely obsolete.

Use the $10 that nospam's going to send you to prove his claim
that all of those costs are trivial...and then invest it wisely!

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 22 May 2020 15:51:39 -0700, sms wrote:

> The 6s is in high demand because of the 3.5mm headset jack.

Re:
o *Value of clearance/refusb iPhones*, by JF Mezei (5/22/2020)
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/zf7TGSRzSsw>

I believe Steve's statement valid that a headset jack is valued by many.
o Apple is courageous to remove functionality that people clearly value.

Since this is an Apple newsgroup, it's important to state obvious facts:
o The headset jack is basic functionality in about 99.9% of Android devices

That's an indication of the "high demand" for "headset jack" functionality.

FACTS:

We looked at all known models, & together, nobody can find more than about
0.1% of Android models which lack this basic mobile device functionality.

To those apologists who hate facts, read this & contribute there:
o *How many of the existing Android phones lack headphone jack*
*basic hardware functionality?*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/ZjnD2kAf-mI/I3i2jT-mCAAJ>

In summary, Steve and JF Mezei are correct in that jacks are valued.
o Those who claim otherwise appear to simply parrot Apple MARKETING mantra.

Facts are what matter; not glossy marketing brochures claiming
o Apple is courageous to remove functionality that people clearly value.
--
Apple removed the headphone jack for one reason & one reason only: MONEY.

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-05-22 4:04 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Fri, 22 May 2020 15:51:39 -0700, sms wrote:
>
>> The 6s is in high demand because of the 3.5mm headset jack.
>
> Re:
> o *Value of clearance/refusb iPhones*, by JF Mezei (5/22/2020)
> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/zf7TGSRzSsw>
>
> I believe Steve's statement valid that a headset jack is valued by many.
> o Apple is courageous to remove functionality that people clearly value.
>
> Since this is an Apple newsgroup, it's important to state obvious facts:
> o The headset jack is basic functionality in about 99.9% of Android devices
>
> That's an indication of the "high demand" for "headset jack" functionality.
>
> FACTS:
>
> We looked at all known models, & together, nobody can find more than about
> 0.1% of Android models which lack this basic mobile device functionality.

"We", Arlen?

Who is we?

And are you basing your (singular) determination on the list of more
than a year ago you presented compared against every model of Android
phone ever made, regardless of whether they are still made or not?

What is the actual percentage of CURRRENT models that have no headphone
jack, Arlen?

>
> To those apologists who hate facts, read this & contribute there:
> o *How many of the existing Android phones lack headphone jack*
> *basic hardware functionality?*
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/ZjnD2kAf-mI/I3i2jT-mCAAJ>

In which you present as authoritative a list from...

Did I say "more than a year ago" just now? I meant:

..more than two years ago?

>
> In summary, Steve and JF Mezei are correct in that jacks are valued.
> o Those who claim otherwise appear to simply parrot Apple MARKETING mantra.
>
> Facts are what matter; not glossy marketing brochures claiming
> o Apple is courageous to remove functionality that people clearly value.

And yet a little checking shows that:

1. Many, many MORE models of Android phone now do not have a headphone jack.

2. Consumers don't seem to care that much.

The source for that last claim is the same as the source for your more
than 27 month old list:

'99% of Americans Don’t Care About the Headphone Jack, Survey Finds'

<https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2019/08/24/headphone-jack-report/>

[Alan Baker]

[Arlen Holder]

This is a humorous article from MacWorld on what we should smile on Apple's
"courageous" decision to "cover up that ugly headphone jack" hole! :)
o *Why Apple needs to stop being so cheap*
<https://www.macworld.co.uk/opinion/apple/different-think-apple-cheap-3788153/>

Verbatim...

"I didn't choose the dongle life
Take, for example, the great headphone debacle that began with the iPhone
7. Here came the funky new model that everyone wanted, with Apple touting
its decision to include no headphone jack absolutely free of charge. That's
right, customers were blessed with a couple of millimetres of additional
brushed aluminium to cover up the ugly hole that existed on the previous
models. Courage.

Obviously, this caused a bit of a problem for those who wanted to use their
current, wired headphones, so Apple saw them off at the pass with the
inclusion of an adapter that connected them to the Lightning port. It was
ugly, but it worked... well, for a while until the damn thing either got
lost or broke. Dongle life had begun.

This was followed by the iPhone 8, which told a similar story until it was
updated a while later and the adapter was quietly dropped from the box,
replaced by a pair of Lightning EarPods instead. Now, some will say this is
a good thing, as you get working headphones with your iPhone, but if you
already had a pair you liked then to use them meant a trip to the Apple
Store to buy a dongle. This would be followed up, shortly afterwards, with
a second trip to replace the first one that had disappeared somehow.
Magical.

Why not simply put both in the box? iPhones are expensive, dongles are not,
so why withhold this thing that helps customers and ensures that 'it just
works'?

(If you think this is bad, word on the grapevine is that Apple is
considering not including any headphones at all with the iPhone 12. This
remains an unconfirmed rumour, before you fire off an angry email to Tim
Cook, but it gives an idea of what acts of user-unfriendliness people are
willing to believe of Apple right now.)"
--
There is only one reason for the lack of functionality on iPhones: MONEY

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-05-24 7:40 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> This is a humorous article from MacWorld on what we should smile on Apple's
> "courageous" decision to "cover up that ugly headphone jack" hole! :)
> o *Why Apple needs to stop being so cheap*
> <https://www.macworld.co.uk/opinion/apple/different-think-apple-cheap-3788153/>
>
> Verbatim...

Does this mean you're done presenting lists more than 2 years old as
proof that Android phones are making this transition as well, Arlen?

:-)

[nospam]

In article <rafb60$q0c$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen Holder

<arlen...@newmachine.com> wrote:

> This was followed by the iPhone 8, which told a similar story until it was
> updated a while later and the adapter was quietly dropped from the box,
> replaced by a pair of Lightning EarPods instead.

nothing was replaced. lightning earpods were always included.

the adapter was dropped because most people didn't use it, instead
preferring the bundled headphones, the speakers in the phone (i.e., no
headphones) or bluetooth headphones.

it's simple supply & demand. there's no reason to ship hundreds of
millions of adapters that almost nobody used, especially when the
lightning connector was supply constrained.

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 25 May 2020 08:24:26 -0400, nospam wrote:

> nothing was replaced. lightning earpods were always included.
>
> the adapter was dropped because most people didn't use it, instead
> preferring the bundled headphones, the speakers in the phone (i.e., no
> headphones) or bluetooth headphones.
>
> it's simple supply & demand. there's no reason to ship hundreds of
> millions of adapters that almost nobody used, especially when the
> lightning connector was supply constrained.

Hi nospam,
Happy Memorial Day!

It was a humorous look, by MacWorld, at how Apple makes money.
o In fact, it was titled: "*Why Apple needs to stop being so cheap*"

*Where the point was to humorously poke at _how_ Apple makes its money!*

HINT: You'd better not read the part about the "slow power" supply then!
"the iPhone 11, iPhone XR, iPhone SE and aforementioned iPhone 8
all support fast charging, but Apple only puts the standard (slow)
charger in the box even when you've blown over a grand..."

DOUBLEHINT: Nor would you want to read the poke at the iPad:
"the standard iPad now has less storage than the cheapest iPhone SE,
all while being positioned as a possible replacement for your laptop"

TRIPLEHINT: Don't read how they poke fun at Apple making iCloud money:
"Hey, look, have 5GB on us for free! Whoop-de-doo!"

OVERALLHINT: "From laptops that require multiple dongles to work properly
and hefty upgrade costs for memory or storage to the iPad keyboards
with price tags that defy any known theory of economics: the
constant drip feed of penny-pinching from the world's first
trillion-dollar company..."

It was a humorous poke at _how_ Apple makes its money off of you! :)
--
You didn't really need to attempt to _justify_ MARKETING in that expose.

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-05-25 9:23 a.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Mon, 25 May 2020 08:24:26 -0400, nospam wrote:
>
>> nothing was replaced. lightning earpods were always included.
>>
>> the adapter was dropped because most people didn't use it, instead
>> preferring the bundled headphones, the speakers in the phone (i.e., no
>> headphones) or bluetooth headphones.
>>
>> it's simple supply & demand. there's no reason to ship hundreds of
>> millions of adapters that almost nobody used, especially when the
>> lightning connector was supply constrained.
>

Funny...

Did you go on just the other day about how you don't post information in
inappropriate groups?

How is an article from MacWorld appropriate in this group, Arlen?

And how it appropriate to post it twice... ...or was it three or four
times now?

[Arlen Holder]

> It's nothing like VGA...
> o *A smartphone without a headphone jack is like a laptop sans a keyboard.*

Hi nospam,

While I'm acutely well aware _why_ you apologize for Apple's courageous
decision to drop basic functionality so that Apple can make more MONEY...

Thinking about an appropriate analogy, a smartphone sans a headphone jack
is sort of like a laptop sans a USB port, or, maybe even a laptop sans a
power connector.

In both cases
o Losing the USB ports, and,
o Losing the power plug port...
The manufacturer benefits by their courageous decision to drop the
functionality if you end up purchasing _more expensive_ products from them.

A smartphone without a headphone jack is like a laptop sans a power plug.
--
A smartphone sans a headphone jack is like a laptop sans any ports.

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 05 Jun 2020 04:59:20 -0400, nospam wrote:

> anyone who wants to remain in the past and continue to use vga

Comparing VGA to headphone jacks is mathematically unsound.

You're again making excuses for Apple's courageous decision to make MONEY!
o The ratio of headphone jacks to Android is more akin to laptop keyboards.

The key fact remains a fact whether or not you like that fact, nospam.
o *99.9% of all Android devices have the headphone jack*

You hate facts but that's still a fact, whether or not you hate it.
o 1/10th of 1% of Android devices do NOT have this basic functionality.

The numbers are nothing like VGA...

o *A smartphone without a headphone jack is like a laptop sans a keyboard.*

--
Apologists are desperate to ignore the most basic of obvious facts.

[Alan Baker]

The correct question...

...the adult question...

...is what percentage of Android phones currently being manufactured
don't have headphone jacks.

Only a twit would talk about all the Android phones in existence.

[Arlen Holder]

On Wed, 02 Sep 2020 17:33:31 -0400, nospam wrote:

> most people don't use headphones,

FACT:
*And yet, over 99% of all Android phones ever made, have that aux jack!*

o How many of the existing Android phones lack headphone jack basic
hardware functionality?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/ZjnD2kAf-mI>

Why is it always only the iPhones missing key basic hardware functionality?
--
Apologists hate that 99.9% of Android phones have that hardware aux jack!

[Arlen Holder]

On 19 Oct 2020 11:58:02 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

>> 3.5mm analog headphone jacks? Quaint.
>
> Well, a lot (the majority of?) audio/video equipment still have them
> and they will be there for a long time to come. These transititions
> often take a long time. Only when they're over, you know how long the
> took.

What I'm imparting below is probably too deep for most people...
o It's a frank assessment on what Frank above termed a "transition".

I'm not attacking Frank - he really believes there is a "transition"
o I'm pointing out the fallacy of the apologists' claims to that effect

There is no transition.
o There never was.

Courage is just Apple's bullshit for greed.
o Android users aren't as gullible as iPhone owners clearly are

Here's what happened, in my humblest of assessments of the facts:
o Bearing in mind there is no transition in headphone jacks on Android

Given almost every Android device has the headphone jack, I wouldn't term
it as a "transition", as there is no transition.
o Almost every Android phone ever sold has this basic functionality.

My take on what happened is simple, logical,and sensible.
1. Apple, as they always do, removed the functionality on iPhones
2. They did that, as Apple always does, purely for greed & profit
3. Apple MARKETING, as they always do, ramped up the "courageous" decision

And yet, nobody wanted it, but certainly everyone wants profits.
A. So some high end Android devices, not many, _copied_ Apple
B. They did that for the same reasons Apple removed the functionality
C. Who wouldn't want to copy Apple' highly successful profit margins

And yet, nobody wanted it.
o Hence, there is no transition

There will always be a fool who falls for these MARKETING gimmicks
o More fools live in Apple land because Apple targets them specifically

But in Android land, there is no transition.
o Almost every Android phone ever sold has this basic functionality.
--
Most people only believe what the MARKETING organizations feed them.