alt.arts.poetry.comments - 25 new messages in 10 topics - digest

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alt.arts.poetry.comments
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments?hl=en

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Today's topics:

* Del Ranch open mic Sundays - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/t/5698cc151f1fcfcc?hl=en
* Some WalkaboutsVerse, etc. - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/t/9761691a391dd328?hl=en
* Will Dockery & Gary Frankfurth: The Dark Ages of Shadowville - 2 messages, 2
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/t/21992fb2329448d2?hl=en
* Chuck Lysaght Rape Poetry (was Re: j r sherman - 6 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/t/4db59a7befe1fa52?hl=en
* BOB DYLAN interpretations by AJ Weberman - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/t/9961bd14449a0d43?hl=en
* Black Dog / Led Zeppelin - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/t/705df262315655cd?hl=en
* Trick of Light / Karla (revisted) - 5 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/t/dfcfe4531810a6cc?hl=en
* Mind Games / Leisha Wharfield & George Dance - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/t/325d0963189f5b53?hl=en
* A Moth Danced - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/t/948a65a366fc2244?hl=en
* Poets art quiz - The 400th one - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/t/43d3b204536c718e?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Del Ranch open mic Sundays
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/t/5698cc151f1fcfcc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Nov 15 2009 3:13 pm
From: Will Dockery


Del Ranch open mic Sundays
Hosted by Henry Conley
Type: Music/Arts - Jam Session
Network: Global
Start Time: Sunday, November 15, 2009 at 8:05pm
End Time: Monday, November 16, 2009 at 12:05am
Location: Del Ranch Restaurant & Lounge
Street: 4920 Lee Road 430

Description Open mic at Del Ranch every Sunday, hosted by the
illustrious Henry Conley... come and perform or just to listen. Food &
drinks available.

--
"Red Lipped Stranger" & other stories:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery




== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 16 2009 1:57 pm
From: Will Dockery


> Del Ranch open mic Sundays
> Hosted by Henry Conley
> Type: Music/Arts - Jam Session
> Network: Global
> Start Time: Sunday, November 15, 2009 at 8:05pm
> End Time: Monday, November 16, 2009 at 12:05am
> Location: Del Ranch Restaurant & Lounge
> Street: 4920 Lee Road 430
Smith's Station, Alabama
>
> Description Open mic at Del Ranch every Sunday, hosted by the
> illustrious Henry Conley... come and perform or just to listen. Food &
> drinks available.

18 singers & Australian Rugby, a note from Admiral Conley:

"...Thanks Karen, for having Open Mic @ Del Ranch! No Jackson Browne
but an Australian Rugby team was there! A great night of performances
featuring: Gene, Tripp, Dusty, Nathan, Randy & Darlene, Stan & Marsha,
Cat, Sandy, Will, Shannon, Rusty, Gini,, John, Patrick, Sean & Rick.
(yes, 18 different performers!) & it was too... cool to see Jenny
Posey as well. Thanks to you all! See you next Sunday, 8:00 -
12:00..."

Photos from the show by Patrick Hopkins:

http://www.facebook.com/#/album.php?aid=2030637&id=1579928272

--
"Red Lipped Stranger" & other stories:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery






==============================================================================
TOPIC: Some WalkaboutsVerse, etc.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/t/9761691a391dd328?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 16 2009 2:09 am
From: walkaboutsverse


This was in 1988...

Poem cum song 10 of 230: LAND’S END TO JOHN O’ GROATS

(TUNE:

D G A A B B A A
D A B B A A G G
D B B B A A G G
D A B A B A G G)

At the bold age of twenty-one
(Via Hong Kong, China, Macau),
I flew from Sydney to London -
Land’s End to John o’ Groats my vow.

I took a train out of London,
Found a highway and thumbed a ride;
I headed down toward Brighton,
Then hitch-hiked roads the coast beside.

On the face of my shoulder bag,
A sketched map of Aus. was my tag;
For said a Scot who’d hitched Europe:
“Some emblem may well boost your hope.”

And drivers throughout the island,
Over a two month riding span,
Were the kindest folks I have met -
I swear not once did I get wet!

I stopped overnight in Portsmouth,
And one or two nights in Torquay;
Then headed along to Plymouth -
Still travelling beside the sea.

After viewing rugged Land’s End,
I began the long journey north -
North-east, rather, before a bend,
Somewhere in a bit from Bournemouth.

On the way, I saw relatives,
Whom after leaving I did miss -
Their homes’ cosy atmosphere,
And their local pubs’ good cheer.

And the hitched-lifts came from many:
An off-work Bobbie, a truckie,
As well as on-duty soldiers -
Thanks, and I’ve not said where each was!

I headed west through South Wales,
And viewed Cardiff Arms from afar -
I was hitching with local males,
And they showed me from in the car.

I stayed a while at Swansea -
Saw the local footballers play;
Then hitched north through Llandovery -
Beautiful farmland, I must say.

I slept mostly in B. & B’s,
Where the full breakfasts sure did please;
But also stopped in Youth Hostels,
Where it’s the comradeship that tells.

My favourite sites were Torquay,
Old St. Andrews (noted shortly),
The road Glasgow-to-Inverness,
The Lakes, plus London’s spots, no less.

From Colwyn Bay, I headed east
To Manchester, my place of birth;
Then on the Lakes my eyes did feast,
Before I passed by Solway Firth.

Onto Edinburgh, Glasgow,
St. Andrews, before Inverness;
Then waves from locals were the go -
Warm folks round John o’ Groats, I’d guess.

From http://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse (e-book)
Or http://walkaboutsverse.sitegoz.com (e-scroll)
(C) David Franks 2003

On Nov 15, 10:18 am, walkaboutsverse <david1fra...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> After a stormy Saturday here in England, it's much calmer in Newcastle
> upon Tyne today...
>
> Poem 179 of 230: A GLASSY TYNE - AUTUMN 2001
>
> Near glassy-classical new Law Courts,
>     From the snazzy Millennium Footbridge,
> Reflecting fine bridges of other sorts -
>     A glassy Tyne's snazzy sunset image.
>
> Fromhttp://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse(e-book)
> Orhttp://walkaboutsverse.sitegoz.com(e-scroll)
> (C) David Franks 2003
>
> On Nov 14, 12:13 pm, walkaboutsverse <david1fra...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hardly seaside weather today in England, but...
>
> > Poem 120 of 230:  A GOOD SEASIDE DAY - AUTUMN 2000
>
> > Via the art gallery,
> >     Blackpool how it used to be;
> > Via a famous tower,
> >     The Blackpool of the hour.
> > Via a maritime Mount,
> >     Fleetwood with its channel out.
> > And, via a coastline tram,
> >     The autumn-night lit-art jam.
>
> > Fromhttp://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse(e-book)
> > Orhttp://walkaboutsverse.sitegoz.com(e-scroll)
> > (C) David Franks 2003
>
> > On Nov 13, 10:10 am, walkaboutsverse <david1fra...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > It's called Mumbai now, of course, but not when I was there...
>
> > > Poem 21 of 230: BOMBAY PORTER
>
> > > Awaiting a train in Bombay,
> > >     I was shocked into dismay;
> > > For a well-dressed man, built strongly,
> > >     Was walking, his hands set free,
> > > Ahead of a bony porter -
> > >     Heavy case on head, no quarter.
>
> > > Shortly later, I watched again
> > >     As out from the rich-man’s train
> > > Came the scrawny struggling porter -
> > >     His thin back now much tauter;
> > > For he writhed as he stretched his loins -
> > >     After a quick count of few coins.
>
> > > Fromhttp://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse(e-book)
> > > Orhttp://walkaboutsverse.sitegoz.com(e-scroll)
> > > (C) David Franks 2003
>
> > > On Nov 12, 10:31 am, walkaboutsverse <david1fra...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Poem 114 of 230: CLITHEROE CASTLE'S VIEWS - SUMMER 2000
>
> > > > From outside metres-thick wall
> > > >     (Down on leafy grounds grown tall,
> > > > Then across stony households
> > > >     To lush-green sheep-grazing folds,
> > > > And up further to the moor),
> > > >     Clitheroe Castle's views soar.
>
> > > > Fromhttp://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse(e-book)
> > > > Orhttp://walkaboutsverse.sitegoz.com(e-scroll)
> > > > (C) David Franks 2003
>
> > > > On Nov 11, 9:32 am, walkaboutsverse <david1fra...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > Poem 84 of 230: NATIONALISM WITHOUT CONQUEST
>
> > > > > Everything in moderation..?
> > > > >     Well, with "nationalism" it's true:
> > > > > It can carry unique cultures on
> > > > >     But, overdosed, cause their conquest, too.
>
> > > > > Fromhttp://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse(e-book)
> > > > > Orhttp://walkaboutsverse.sitegoz.com(e-scroll)
> > > > > (C) David Franks 2003
>
> > > > > On Nov 10, 9:34 am, walkaboutsverse <david1fra...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On the news here in England, last night, a record lottery win was
> > > > > > announced and celebrated:  I agree with Oliver Cromwell and modern-day
> > > > > > Taiwan - gambling should be ILLEGAL...
>
> > > > > > Poem 138 of 230:  AN OPIUM
>
> > > > > > National Lottery passes -
> > > > > >     Slight chances to be richer,
> > > > > >     With lots more than thy neighbour,
> > > > > >     Gained without any labour -
> > > > > >     Keep the system in favour:
> > > > > > An opium of the masses.
>
> > > > > > Fromhttp://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse(e-book)
> > > > > > Orhttp://walkaboutsverse.sitegoz.com(e-scroll)
> > > > > > (C) David Franks 2003
>
> > > > > > On Nov 9, 9:34 am, walkaboutsverse <david1fra...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > With both national rugby-league and rugby-union teams currently on
> > > > > > > tour in England...
>
> > > > > > > Poem 99 of 230: ONE RUGBY?
>
> > > > > > > With sixth-tackle, knock-on and touch-line hand-over -
> > > > > > >     No scrums, line-outs, rucks or mauls;
> > > > > > > The rest (the best of both codes) would hardly alter -
> > > > > > >     And no splits, due to two calls.
>
> > > > > > > Fromhttp://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse(e-book)
> > > > > > > Orhttp://walkaboutsverse.sitegoz.com(e-scroll)
> > > > > > > (C) David Franks 2003
>
> > > > > > > On Nov 8, 9:17 am, walkaboutsverse <david1fra...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > Poem 212 of 230:  REMEMBER THEM?
>
> > > > > > > > Back when we became defenders
> > > > > > > >     (We have plainly been attackers),
> > > > > > > > Defenders' blood, sweat and years
> > > > > > > >     Were paid to keep a good home-way -
> > > > > > > > A way yet to be part stealth-blown,
> > > > > > > >     As mass immigration gained-sway
> > > > > > > > And as we slipped as maintainers.
>
> > > > > > > > Fromhttp://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse(e-book)
> > > > > > > > Orhttp://walkaboutsverse.sitegoz.com(e-scroll)
> > > > > > > > (C) David Franks 2003
>
> > > > > > > > On Nov 7, 10:22 am, walkaboutsverse <david1fra...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > Tomorrow, as well as being Remembrance Sunday in England, etc., it's
> > > > > > > > > 20 years since the Berlin Wall came down - and, about 21 years ago, I
> > > > > > > > > went...
>
> > > > > > > > > Poem 17 of 230:  THROUGH WHAT WAS
>
> > > > > > > > > During Europe’s summer, ‘88,
> > > > > > > > >     At a wall my bag was checked:
> > > > > > > > > A brief smile at what gave it weight;
> > > > > > > > >     Sun-cream lid back - mood unwrecked.
> > > > > > > > > I walked past plain buildings and cars,
> > > > > > > > >     And entered a small food-store.
> > > > > > > > > Its goods were plain, also:  no sweet bars;
> > > > > > > > >     The essentials - not much more.
> > > > > > > > > As I bought crispbread, with money changed,
> > > > > > > > >     A row began, at counter,
> > > > > > > > > Between two, it seemed, Germans estranged -
> > > > > > > > >     Clothes, to me, the sole pointer.
> > > > > > > > > I headed back through the wall that was,
> > > > > > > > >     Then signed a reunion book.
> > > > > > > > > Reflecting, I’m happy/sad because
> > > > > > > > >     The Left-cause, too, has been shook.
>
> > > > > > > > > Fromhttp://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse(e-book)
> > > > > > > > > Orhttp://walkaboutsverse.sitegoz.com(e-scroll)
> > > > > > > > > (C) David Franks 2003
>
> > > > > > > > > On Nov 6, 9:53 am, walkaboutsverse <david1fra...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > I forgot, forgot to post this yesterday!...it's my attempt at a haiku
> > > > > > > > > > re. Bonfire Night in England.
>
> > > > > > > > > > Poem 188 of 230:  REMEMBER, REMEMBER - AUTUMN 2001
>
> > > > > > > > > > From afar, blown-lights,
> > > > > > > > > >     Then speed's pauses, before blow-
> > > > > > > > > > Sounds of fireworks.
>
> > > > > > > > > > Fromhttp://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse(e-book)
> > > > > > > > > > Orhttp://walkaboutsverse.sitegoz.com(e-scroll)
> > > > > > > > > > (C) David Franks 2003
>
> > > > > > > > > > On Nov 5, 9:34 am, walkaboutsverse <david1fra...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > Although there's been less fireworks around here the last couple of
> > > > > > > > > > > years, it should still be quite a sight this Bonfire Night...
>
> > > > > > > > > > > Poem 173 of 230:  VALLEY VIEWS - AUTUMN 2001
>
> > > > > > > > > > > The winds can whistle and the walls can creak,
> > > > > > > > > > >     But from my beloved old rocking-chair,
> > > > > > > > > > > Through a rhombus-patterned lounge-room window,
> > > > > > > > > > >     The Tyne-valley views induce one to stare:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > Over a canopy of estate trees -
> > > > > > > > > > >     Tall birch, locust, rowan and sycamore -
> > > > > > > > > > > To the housing, parks, stores and works below,
> > > > > > > > > > >     Which fringe the river of the valley floor...
>
> > > > > > > > > > > Then up the other side to more parkland,
> > > > > > > > > > >     More clusters of trees and residencies,
> > > > > > > > > > > Streets that yield at night sparkles of light,
> > > > > > > > > > >     Plus the Angel of the North, topping these.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > Fromhttp://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse(e-book)
> > > > > > > > > > > Orhttp://walkaboutsverse.sitegoz.com(e-scroll)
> > > > > > > > > > > (C) David Franks 2003
>
> > > > > > > > > > > (P.S:  before burning bonfires, please make a final check for
> > > > > > > > > > > hibernating hedgehogs; and, if you like, hear the traditional seasonal
> > > > > > > > > > > English song "Cob-a-Coaling" on my myspace profile - via above link.)
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > R.I.P. Claude Levi-Strauss - one of the most influential
> > > > > > > > > > > > anthropologists, he passed-away yesterday, aged 100.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > Poem 74 of 230:  ANTHROPOLOGICAL SOCIALISM
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > Anthropology -
> > > > > > > > > > > >     Wonts, in close study -
> > > > > > > > > > > > Provides students with
> > > > > > > > > > > >     A good insight on
> > > > > > > > > > > > Many ways to live.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > And students well-read
> > > > > > > > > > > >     Are oftentimes led,
> > > > > > > > > > > > Economically,
> > > > > > > > > > > >     To Left of Centre -
> > > > > > > > > > > > That happened to me.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > With “immigration,”
> > > > > > > > > > > >     However, I’m on
> > > > > > > > > > > > The side of all those
> > > > > > > > > > > >     Who, questioning “aims,”
> > > > > > > > > > > > Make misled-Left foes.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > Fromhttp://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse(e-book)
> > > > > > > > > > > > Orhttp://walkaboutsverse.sitegoz.com(e-scroll)
> > > > > > > > > > > > (C) David Franks 2003
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 3, 8:44 am, walkaboutsverse <david1fra...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > This was just after repatriating form Australia to England (with a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > stop in New York) in 1997 - before I moved north...
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Poem 45 of 230:  PORTOBELLO ROAD
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > After questing forever,
> > > > > > > > > > > > >     I bought an old blade-putter
> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Portobello Road -
> > > > > > > > > > > > >     By my
>
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -






==============================================================================
TOPIC: Will Dockery & Gary Frankfurth: The Dark Ages of Shadowville
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/t/21992fb2329448d2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 16 2009 3:22 am
From: "g.frankfurth"


On Nov 14, 5:43 pm, Will Dockery <will.dock...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "g.frankfurth" <garyfrankfurt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Nov 13, 11:55 pm, Will Dockery wrote:
> >> On Nov 13, 11:45 pm, "g.frankfurth" <garyfrankfurt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > It was a gig night at Rhino's (Thursdays?) The pal of our drummer (name?)
>
> > > > > > > > Dan Harley, who was discharged from Fort Benning and who left his
> > > > > > > > drums in the basement of Rhino's, to this day?
>
> > > > > > > > who had rehearsed with us once at the drummer's house , was
>
> > > > > > > > > there and wanted to pley lead guitar (my spot).
>
> > > > > > > > I don't get why both of you couldn't have played? Up until that point
> > > > > > > > there were usually a dozen people onstage at once playing the songs. I
> > > > > > > > never mentioned it, and you don't seem to remember the incident, but
> > > > > > > > the "clown" ball-busting at our spot at the bar, with Jocelyn's
> > > > > > > > mother, Blair, Jose & other listening, had a serious effect on my
> > > > > > > > judgement, that Spring... I felt that all that had happened before
> > > > > > > > during the Parnello's Winter, may have been a calculated attempt
> > > > > > > > (successful, if so) to freeload off me in $$$ and fame. I wonder if
> > > > > > > > that's why I didn't speak up and say that you both should play, and
> > > > > > > > just let the drummer push you out in favor of his (inept) friend.
>
> > > > > > > > I don't think the other guy even played a set with us, always managed
> > > > > > > > to not show up, or something... only would play at practice, a stage
> > > > > > > > fright thing, maybe.
>
> > > > > > > > I guess I was voted
> > > > > > > > > out, I sat at the bar pissed and fuming over it...never played with
> > > > > > > > > the band again until now.
>
> > > > > > > > Didn't the show at Mario's come after all that?
>
> > > > > It had to have come after that, since the other guitar player was not
> > > > > involved that night... he had already come and gone.
>
> > > > > Which was the last
>
> > > > > > > > Shadowville All-Stars performance until this Summer, because right
> > > > > > > > after that I teamed back up with HC and wrote all the "Shadowville
> > > > > > > > Speedway" songs?
>
> > > > > > > No, this was post Mario's. I guess that I had just gotten my car. The
>
> > > > > Yes, it was definitely after you got the car, and had a little job of
> > > > > some sort, so you had money & a ride and I detected a change in the
> > > > > air, which was proven right when you went off on me with the Clown
> > > > > Attack in front of the woman (whoever she is) and folks like Jose &
> > > > > Blair... maybe they might remember but I wouldn't care to remind
> > > > > them.
>
> > > > > I asked to borrow your phone, and clumsy clown that I am, I fumbled
> > > > > and dropped it, and then one of my big clown feet came down and
> > > > > crushed the poor little thing... but I apologized then, and do again
> > > > > now. good rule of thumb is maybe don't call a man a "clown" infront of
> > > > > women and drunk friends with an ear for mischief... and then lend him
> > > > > your phone.
>
> > > > > > > clown business I do not remember, maybe very,very vaguely
>
> > > > I take that back...there is not even a vague memory, which leads me to
> > > > believe that it was PDW. That sort of thing IS in his nature.
>
> > > Which is what made it so illuminating and shocking when you did it...
> > > Brother Dave remembers it, delve into your memory because I did
> > > compact a day or so of events into one evening. The first night began
> > > at SoHo, where the Goodfellas moment began, or the twist on it, since
> > > you really were saying I was a clown, and how I amuse you... and I
> > > could forget all the beers I bought, because I was "on my own". You
> > > made a hasty exit for Shanty Shack, since you didn't need a ride (at
> > > the moment) and I was sitting there with Jose and the gang. I told
> > > them "Look at that, when he was broke and walking he didn't dare act
> > > like that. Gentlemen, you have seen the real Gary Frankfurth... lend
> > > him a dime at your own risk." They nodded sagely as I grabbed my hat
> > > and walked out the door. Saw you in the parking lot of Shanty Shack
> > > and went in, thinking surely old Gary will understand the gesture of
> > > goodwill buying me at least one beer, or a pitchur with two mugs would
> > > signify to me... I was thinking that the short drive from SoHo to
> > > Shanty Shack would have most likely given you a chance to see the
> > > situation, since I was aware you're not an idiot.
>
> > > Parking lot scene was bad, inside was worse, and that seems to be when
> > > you pulled your projected "clown talk" mind game on me, in front of
> > > the waitress, the nice girl who I can't remember her name, the one
> > > with the friendly smile. That's when I walked out, promising myself if
> > > I ever get fooled again into some phoney, one sided illusion of
> > > comaradere, then I must in fact be the clown this two-faced Court
> > > Jester declared me to be... on both home turf (SoHo) and unfamiliar
> > > grounds (Shanty Shack).
>
> > > All this becomes more vivid the more I think of it... are you
> > > proposing you may have been in a complete black-out state when you
> > > claim to have zero memory of any of the Clown Incident? Brother Dave
> > > saw the parking lot segement, and of course heard me musing on what
> > > the future would bring... I could easily see that after this, perhaps
> > > you were not inclined to perform in a band led by a clown...
>
> > > > > Again, I wonder where your vivid recollections, for which you are
> > > > > famous, have gone in this matter.
>
> > > Heh... even moreso, this morning.
>
> > > > > > > myself and I know how I feel about you...there has never, ever been
> > > > > > > any feelings of animosity.
>
> > > > > > > //Well, I pretty well knew it was just a matter of showing off for Jocelyn's
> > > > > > > mother and whatnot, and I'm sorry I accidentally stepped on your phone that
> > > > > > > night... heh.
>
> > > > Snapped my phone.
>
> > > > I don't need to show off at someone's expense to get a woman's attention.
>
> > > No, the waitress turns out to just happened to be there, that's all.
> > > My thinking is, from your lack of not only a vivid recollection of the
> > > events, to a complete blank on the events, is that you'd just got
> > > paid, just got your own car, finally, and were feeling pretty good
> > > (and so good you may have been in a blackout state), and pretty good
> > > that you didn't have to depend on someone else to buy your beer and
> > > bum a ride from... which seems to be why the trip to Shanty Shack was
> > > so important to the story... you didn't /have/ to stay at SoHo, you
> > > had your own ride & $$$, so didn't have to suffer in the company of
> > > clowns any longer.
>
> > > > > > > The sponge-ing of beers and cigs was due to Parnello's not paying me.
>
> > > > Any addict of anything that can't support his habit is gonna beg
> > > > (mooch) without shame because such does addiction do to a man.  I am
> > > > so glad I have finally quit drinking.
>
> > > Same here, and perhaps this discussion is finished. As Lou Reed wrote:
>
> > > "Those were different times."
>
> > > > > I don't know where you got off deciding to make /me/ pay you for being
> > > > > Senator of Parnello's Pizza... the best I could do was give you the
> > > > > title, it was of course up to Parnell & Mama Parnello to actually /
> > > > > pay/ you... and we had a verbal agreement that all the hundreds of
> > > > > beers I was springing for you'd pay me back for handsomely, or I
> > > > > wouldn't have been so keen on doing it (although I know I'd have
> > > > > sprung for a few, since I never wanted to drink alone). The night of
> > > > > the "clown" incident, though, you made it quite clear that you didn't
> > > > > intend to pay me back, since now I remember what brought that on...
> > > > > you had the job, had beer money, yet didn't offer to buy me any,
> > > > > wouldn't buy a pitchur, and in fact flatly said something like "You're
> > > > > on your own, buddy."
>
> > > > That is not what I meant...Parnello not paying was the reason I had no
> > > > money...I did not expect you to pay me...you bought me the 99 centers
> > > > (Natural Ice) out of the goodness of your-own-self. And now I Know
> > > > something is erroneous : I would never, ever say that I have no
> > > > intention of paying you back. That, absolutely, is not me at all. And
> > > > for me to have money and not buy a pitcher or anything would only
> > > > happen if I was short on money and you had some money but wanted me to
> > > > buy out of principle but I was not yet financially prepared to but
> > > > still would have had  you actually had No money. If you can follow
> > > > that.
>
> > > Yes, that does make sense, probably the presentation of it (clowning,
> > > et cetera) skewed the message... I do think we've hit the core of the
> > > matter, here.
>
> > > > > Continuing to converse with you led to the "clown" statements, et cetera.
>
> > > > > > > Yeh, Harley, I guess the band petered -out when he got discharged, for
> > > > > > > lack of a drummer.
>
> > > > > > > //Well, almost immediately after that I hooked back up with Henry Conley &
> > > > > > > began songwriting with him, thus putting the Shadowville All-Stars on
> > > > > > > hiatus... this is the period of time in his HC & me wrote over 100 songs,
> > > > > > > resulting in the album, and the forthcoming one...
>
> > > > > > > That one night, the last  night at Rhino's, though,
> > > > > > > the other dude, friend of Harley, played in my spot and I figured that
> > > > > > > I had been replaced.. .
>
> > > > > > > //I Still say there's room for all in the Shadowville All-Stars...
>
> > > > > > I remind you again: Jocelyn's mother was not around then. She
> > > > > > disappeared a year and half or more before that. She was gone
>
> > > > > She came back and forth a couple of times during that period, her
> > > > > mother was sick at one point and she was staying there with her for a
> > > > > while, but she did become much more mysterious and unlikely to see
> > > > > after her days at Whisperwood.
>
> > > > > > got back from Michigan from picking up my other Honda- the Accord-
>
> > > > > Was that before or after you spent the time working in New Orleans
> > > > > after the hurricane? The particulars are complex, there were a lot of
> > > > > comings and goings with you during those years, like when did you get
> > > > > and how long did you have the famous house-on-wheels, the Dodge Ram
> > > > > Van, I think it was? This is around the time PDW arrived on the scene
> > > > > and spent a few months on the scene... he wanted to buy your van at
> > > > > that point, remember that?
> > > > >    That was before I went to
>
> > > ...
>
> > > read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Yes, I am saying that none of this is in my memory banks. I do have a
> > bad memory of some of the drunken times. So often I am greeted by
> > people who claim to know me and I haven't the slightest idea who they
> > are.  Maybe you are right but I still think that is very out of
> > character for me to turn my back on a friend and not acknowledge their
> > past generosity. Something else must have been a factor in this for me
> > to behave so. Somewhere in this you must have gotten my goat.
>
> > I did a lot of things when i was drinking that I am less than proud
> > of.  I am just glad that period is over. I hope that I have a chance
> > to make things right .
>
> Well, likewise, we were quite a terror on many levels... I remember a
> few of them where I've been... less than perfect.
>
> The main focus of this thread was really to explore this somewhat lost
> era of the Shadowville All-Stars, as I put it yesterday:
>
> "...I just responded, an interesting, and never discussed part of the
> history. Things didn't get documented well at all back then, not like
> today, no photos, no videos, not even any recordings! The Dark Ages of
> Shadowville..."
>
> --
> "Red Lipped Stranger & other stories" by Will Dockery:http://www.myspace.com/willdockery

I do recall now the incident but I don't remember a whole lot of the
particulars. I remember that I was doing some landscaping with Jeff
Humphreys a few hours here
and there. I didn't have a lot of money and it was uncertain from day
to day if I'd make anymore. You were somewhat intoxicated and being a
bit obnoxious, wanting me to buy a pitcher or two.. I wasn't ready yet
to start paying you back and you were not without some funds. You
were annoying me and I wanted to just get away from you for the time
being, hence the dash to Shanty. At Shanty you were embarrasing me.
It's such situations when I am capable of acidic tongue thrashings.

You left and I immidiately felt bad, knowing you did not deserve that.
You had been nothing but supportive and generous toward me throughout
my short term as Senator of Parnelloville.. I frelt guilty, knowing I
was wrong. Guilt and shame are not emotions I can afford, so I tend to
block things out that cause them. Buffers, if you will, to protect
myself from myself.

My sincere apologies Will.

Ever since my illfated sojourn to Mississippi, my attempts to do
something other than construction have not paid off. Dickhead -
Sausage Phil almost killed me and didn't pay me at all. Parnellos
didn't work out. Landscaping is hit and miss. I scewed my feet up with
staff infection and no longer have the on my feet endurance for
construction. Which has been a 25 year career for me.

Excuses, excuses...sei la vei, nes pas...

I am aware of my debt to you. I hope that I can find a way to make it
right, Bozo.




== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 16 2009 1:50 pm
From: Will Dockery


On Nov 16, 6:22 am, "g.frankfurth" <garyfrankfurt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 14, 5:43 pm, Will Dockery wrote:
>
> > The main focus of this thread was really to explore this somewhat lost
> > era of the Shadowville All-Stars, as I put it yesterday:
>
> > "...I just responded, an interesting, and never discussed part of the
> > history. Things didn't get documented well at all back then, not like
> > today, no photos, no videos, not even any recordings! The Dark Ages of
> > Shadowville..."
>
> > --
> > "Red Lipped Stranger & other stories" by Will Dockery:http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
>
> I do recall now the incident but I don't remember a whole lot of the
> particulars. I remember that I was doing some landscaping with Jeff
> Humphreys  a few hours here
>  and there. I didn't have a lot of money and it was uncertain from day
> to day if I'd make anymore. You were somewhat intoxicated and being a
> bit obnoxious, wanting me to buy a pitcher or two.. I wasn't ready yet
> to start paying you back and you were not without some funds.  You
> were annoying me and I wanted to just get away from you for the time
> being, hence the dash to Shanty. At Shanty you were embarrasing me.
> It's such situations when I am capable of acidic tongue thrashings.
>
> You left and I immidiately felt bad, knowing you did not deserve that.
> You had been nothing but supportive and generous toward me throughout
> my short term as Senator of Parnelloville.. I frelt guilty, knowing I
> was wrong. Guilt and shame are not emotions I can afford, so I tend to
> block things out that cause them. Buffers, if you will, to protect
> myself from myself.
>
> My sincere apologies Will.

Accepted, of course.

> Ever since my illfated sojourn to Mississippi,  my attempts to do
> something other than construction have not paid off.  Dickhead -
> Sausage Phil almost killed me and didn't pay me at all. Parnellos
> didn't work out. Landscaping is hit and miss. I scewed my feet up with
> staff infection and no longer have the on my feet endurance for
> construction. Which has been a 25 year career for me.
>
> Excuses, excuses...sei la vei, nes pas...
>
> I am aware of my debt to you. I hope that I can find a way to make it right

You already did. Your harp-work on "Dream Tears":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gX035Ybafx4

And your paintings used in the "Red Lipped Stranger" video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBhcN1WK144

Are priceless contributions, man.

"Now get the fuck outta here,.." -Joe Peschi






==============================================================================
TOPIC: Chuck Lysaght Rape Poetry (was Re: j r sherman
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/t/4db59a7befe1fa52?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 16 2009 5:41 am
From: Meat Plow


On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 14:51:59 -0600, Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com>wrote:

>On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 11:17:17 -0500, Meat Plow <me...@petitmorte.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 08:19:46 -0800 (PST), the messenjah
>><theguyo...@veryfast.biz>wrote:
>>
>>>hey check out j r sherman's myspace page... I guess j r doesn't like
>>>britney spears... he wants to watch her get raped... hmmm... you can
>>>search his friends and find joy yourcenar... yikes!!!
>>
>>Nice way to show how much you don't obsess over jr.
>
>PedoKluck always did have a subtle approach to Usenet posting.

Plus it's a cool way to draw the heat away from the babysitter rape
fantasy poem he created. You know this one titled Perfect Angel.


Perfect Angel by 'a middle aged' Chuck Lysaght AKA
<the messenjah theguyo...@veryfast.biz>
<http://www.kookpedia.net/index.php/Chuck_Lysaght>
<http://www.myspace.com/chucklysaght>

>>> i knew it was wrong
>>> i'm not really a good babysitter
>>> i felt myself getting hard
>>> as she sat in my lap
>>> and then she kissed me
>>> i told her no
>>> she kept kissing me
>>> soon the passion
>>> was too much
>>> i grabbed her
>>> and slammed my swollen cock
>>>i nto her virgin pussy
>>> and exploded as she screamed
>>> hours of screams
>>> then...
>>> her parents came home
>>> asked if she did her homework
>>> and if she behaved
>>> she looked at me
>>> and wet her lips with her tongue
>>> i said yes
>>> she was a perfect angel

Who besides someone with a sick, deeply demented mind sits around and
dreams about raping our young girls who are still young enough to need
adult supervision? What age do most people start trusting their kids
alone at home? Hell I've seen 13 year olds baby sit for others. So
where does that leave Chuck Lysaght's imagination? Molesting/torturing
an 8-10 year old?

discuss




== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 16 2009 1:32 pm
From: Will Dockery


On Nov 16, 8:41 am, Meat Plow <m...@petitmorte.net> wrote:
>
> You know this one titled Perfect Angel.
>
> Perfect Angel by 'a middle aged' Chuck Lysaght AKA
> <the messenjah theguyontheb...@veryfast.biz>
> <http://www.kookpedia.net/index.php/Chuck_Lysaght>
> <http://www.myspace.com/chucklysaght>
>
> >>> i knew it was wrong
> >>> i'm not really a good babysitter
> >>> i felt myself getting hard
> >>> as she sat in my lap
> >>> and then she kissed me
> >>> i told her no
> >>> she kept kissing me
> >>> soon the passion
> >>> was too much
> >>> i grabbed her
> >>> and slammed my swollen cock
> >>>i nto her virgin pussy
> >>> and exploded as she screamed
> >>> hours of screams
> >>> then...
> >>> her parents came home
> >>> asked if she did her homework
> >>> and if she behaved
> >>> she looked at me
> >>> and wet her lips with her tongue
> >>> i said yes
> >>> she was a perfect angel
>
> Who besides someone with a sick, deeply demented mind sits around and
> dreams about raping our young girls

Charles Bukowski and Allen Ginsberg both wrote similar "Shock
Poetry"... although Ginsberg's were about young boys.

who are still young enough to need
> adult supervision? What age do most people start trusting their kids
> alone at home? Hell I've seen 13 year olds baby sit for others. So
> where does that leave Chuck Lysaght's imagination? Molesting/torturing
> an 8-10 year old?
>
> discuss

First point in the discussion would be the reminder from Karla Rogers:

"Don't mistake the writer of the poem for the speaker in the poem."

--
"Red Lipped Stranger & other stories" by Will Dockery:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery




== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 16 2009 5:45 pm
From: "G&tSP"



Path: g2news2.google.com!news2.google.com!news.glorb.com!
news2.glorb.com!news.alt.net
From: Meat Plow <me...@petitmorte.net>
Newsgroups:
alabama.general,alt.music.country,alt.arts.poetry.comments,rec.music.makers,rec.arts.poems,rec.arts.poems,us.arts.poetry,alt.arts.poetry.urban,alt.poetry
Subject: Chuck Lysaght Rape Poetry (was Re: j r sherman
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 08:41:49 -0500
Organization: Altopia Corp. - Usenet Access - www.altopia.com
Lines: 56
Message-ID: <39oabv....@news.alt.net>
References: <3a63492c-83c5-4ad5-
b099-286...@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com> <39lv3f.6kh.
17...@news.alt.net> <aeq0g5pg3526fmnj1...@4ax.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171
X-No-Archive: yes

On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 14:51:59 -0600, Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com>wrote:

>On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 11:17:17 -0500, Meat Plow <m...@petitmorte.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 08:19:46 -0800 (PST), the messenjah
>><theguyontheb...@veryfast.biz>wrote:
>>
>>>hey check out j r sherman's myspace page... I guess j r doesn't like
>>>britney spears... he wants to watch her get raped... hmmm... you can
>>>search his friends and find joy yourcenar... yikes!!!
>>
>>Nice way to show how much you don't obsess over jr.
>
>PedoKluck always did have a subtle approach to Usenet posting.

Plus it's a cool way to draw the heat away from the babysitter rape
fantasy poem he created. You know this one titled Perfect Angel.


Perfect Angel by 'a middle aged' Chuck Lysaght AKA
<the messenjah theguyontheb...@veryfast.biz>
<http://www.kookpedia.net/index.php/Chuck_Lysaght>
<http://www.myspace.com/chucklysaght>

>>> i knew it was wrong
>>> i'm not really a good babysitter
>>> i felt myself getting hard
>>> as she sat in my lap
>>> and then she kissed me
>>> i told her no
>>> she kept kissing me
>>> soon the passion
>>> was too much
>>> i grabbed her
>>> and slammed my swollen cock
>>>i nto her virgin pussy
>>> and exploded as she screamed
>>> hours of screams
>>> then...
>>> her parents came home
>>> asked if she did her homework
>>> and if she behaved
>>> she looked at me
>>> and wet her lips with her tongue
>>> i said yes
>>> she was a perfect angel

Hey, Meat Puppet, you realize that you just "published" Chuck's poem
to usenet without his permission, don't you? You do realize that, by
the reasoning of you and your k0oKfrendz, that makes you a "copyright
violator," don't you?

Or are you just too supid to remember how you K0Oked out about that
mere days ago on the same poetry groups?






== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 16 2009 5:59 pm
From: Will Dockery


On Nov 16, 8:45 pm, "G&tSP" <gand...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> Path: g2news2.google.com!news2.google.com!news.glorb.com!
> news2.glorb.com!news.alt.net
> From: Meat Plow <m...@petitmorte.net>
> Newsgroups:
> alabama.general,alt.music.country,alt.arts.poetry.comments,rec.music.makers­,rec.arts.poems,rec.arts.poems,us.arts.poetry,alt.arts.poetry.urban,alt.poe­try
> Subject: Chuck Lysaght Rape Poetry (was Re: j r sherman
> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 08:41:49 -0500
> Organization: Altopia Corp. - Usenet Access -www.altopia.com
> Lines: 56
> Message-ID: <39oabv....@news.alt.net>
> References: <3a63492c-83c5-4ad5-
> b099-2862ab398...@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com> <39lv3f.6kh.
> 1...@news.alt.net> <aeq0g5pg3526fmnj1brs9e9o5ikrmme...@4ax.com>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171
> X-No-Archive: yes
>
> On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 14:51:59 -0600, Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 11:17:17 -0500, Meat Plow <m...@petitmorte.net>
> >wrote:
>
> >>On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 08:19:46 -0800 (PST), the messenjah
> >><theguyontheb...@veryfast.biz>wrote:
>
> >>>hey check out j r sherman's myspace page... I guess j r doesn't like
> >>>britney spears... he wants to watch her get raped... hmmm... you can
> >>>search his friends and find joy yourcenar... yikes!!!
>
> >>Nice way to show how much you don't obsess over jr.
>
> >PedoKluck always did have a subtle approach to Usenet posting.
>
> Plus it's a cool way to draw the heat away from the babysitter rape
> fantasy poem he created. You know this one titled Perfect Angel.
>
> Perfect Angel by 'a middle aged' Chuck Lysaght AKA
> <the messenjah theguyontheb...@veryfast.biz>
> <http://www.kookpedia.net/index.php/Chuck_Lysaght>
> <http://www.myspace.com/chucklysaght>
>
> >>> i knew it was wrong
> >>> i'm not really a good babysitter
> >>> i felt myself getting hard
> >>> as she sat in my lap
> >>> and then she kissed me
> >>> i told her no
> >>> she kept kissing me
> >>> soon the passion
> >>> was too much
> >>> i grabbed her
> >>> and slammed my swollen cock
> >>>i nto her virgin pussy
> >>> and exploded as she screamed
> >>> hours of screams
> >>> then...
> >>> her parents came home
> >>> asked if she did her homework
> >>> and if she behaved
> >>> she looked at me
> >>> and wet her lips with her tongue
> >>> i said yes
> >>> she was a perfect angel
>
> Hey, Meat Puppet, you realize that you just "published" Chuck's poem
> to usenet without his permission, don't you? You do realize that, by
> the reasoning of you and your k0oKfrendz, that makes you a "copyright
> violator," don't you?
>
> Or are you just too supid to remember how you K0Oked out about that
> mere days ago on the same poetry groups?

Oh, Barbie the Cat will be so upset about this...

--
"Red Lipped Stranger & other stories" by Will Dockery:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery




== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 16 2009 6:46 pm
From: Russell B. Walters


On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 17:45:52 -0800 (PST), "G&tSP" <gan...@yahoo.ca>
wrote:

>
>Path: g2news2.google.com!news2.google.com!news.glorb.com!
>news2.glorb.com!news.alt.net
>From: Meat Plow <me...@petitmorte.net>
>Newsgroups:
>alabama.general,alt.music.country,alt.arts.poetry.comments,rec.music.makers,rec.arts.poems,rec.arts.poems,us.arts.poetry,alt.arts.poetry.urban,alt.poetry
>Subject: Chuck Lysaght Rape Poetry (was Re: j r sherman
>Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 08:41:49 -0500
>Organization: Altopia Corp. - Usenet Access - www.altopia.com
>Lines: 56
>Message-ID: <39oabv....@news.alt.net>
>References: <3a63492c-83c5-4ad5-
>b099-286...@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com> <39lv3f.6kh.
>17...@news.alt.net> <aeq0g5pg3526fmnj1...@4ax.com>
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171
>X-No-Archive: yes
>
>On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 14:51:59 -0600, Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 11:17:17 -0500, Meat Plow <m...@petitmorte.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 08:19:46 -0800 (PST), the messenjah
>>><theguyontheb...@veryfast.biz>wrote:
>>>
>>>>hey check out j r sherman's myspace page... I guess j r doesn't like
>>>>britney spears... he wants to watch her get raped... hmmm... you can
>>>>search his friends and find joy yourcenar... yikes!!!
>>>
>>>Nice way to show how much you don't obsess over jr.
>>
>>PedoKluck always did have a subtle approach to Usenet posting.
>
>Plus it's a cool way to draw the heat away from the babysitter rape
>fantasy poem he created. You know this one titled Perfect Angel.
>
>
>Perfect Angel by 'a middle aged' Chuck Lysaght AKA
><the messenjah theguyontheb...@veryfast.biz>
><http://www.kookpedia.net/index.php/Chuck_Lysaght>
><http://www.myspace.com/chucklysaght>
>
>>>> i knew it was wrong
>>>> i'm not really a good babysitter
>>>> i felt myself getting hard
>>>> as she sat in my lap
>>>> and then she kissed me
>>>> i told her no
>>>> she kept kissing me
>>>> soon the passion
>>>> was too much
>>>> i grabbed her
>>>> and slammed my swollen cock
>>>>i nto her virgin pussy
>>>> and exploded as she screamed
>>>> hours of screams
>>>> then...
>>>> her parents came home
>>>> asked if she did her homework
>>>> and if she behaved
>>>> she looked at me
>>>> and wet her lips with her tongue
>>>> i said yes
>>>> she was a perfect angel
>
>Hey, Meat Puppet, you realize that you just "published" Chuck's poem
>to usenet without his permission, don't you? You do realize that, by
>the reasoning of you and your k0oKfrendz, that makes you a "copyright
>violator," don't you?
>
>Or are you just too supid to remember how you K0Oked out about that
>mere days ago on the same poetry groups?
>
Jingle bells
Jingle bells
Jingle all the way


Now sue me ya fuckwit.




== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 16 2009 7:00 pm
From: "G&tSP"


On Nov 16, 9:46 pm, Russell B. Walters <Ev...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 17:45:52 -0800 (PST), "G&tSP" <gand...@yahoo.ca>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >Path: g2news2.google.com!news2.google.com!news.glorb.com!
> >news2.glorb.com!news.alt.net
> >From: Meat Plow <m...@petitmorte.net>
> >Newsgroups:
> >alabama.general,alt.music.country,alt.arts.poetry.comments,rec.music.makers,rec.arts.poems,rec.arts.poems,us.arts.poetry,alt.arts.poetry.urban,alt.poetry
> >Subject: Chuck Lysaght Rape Poetry (was Re: j r sherman
> >Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 08:41:49 -0500
> >Organization: Altopia Corp. - Usenet Access -www.altopia.com
> >Lines: 56
> >Message-ID: <39oabv.91c.1...@news.alt.net>
> >References: <3a63492c-83c5-4ad5-
> >b099-2862ab398...@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com> <39lv3f.6kh.
> >1...@news.alt.net> <aeq0g5pg3526fmnj1brs9e9o5ikrmme...@4ax.com>
> >Mime-Version: 1.0
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> >X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171
> >X-No-Archive: yes
>
> >On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 14:51:59 -0600, Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >>On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 11:17:17 -0500, Meat Plow <m...@petitmorte.net>
> >>wrote:
>
> >>>On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 08:19:46 -0800 (PST), the messenjah
> >>><theguyontheb...@veryfast.biz>wrote:
>
> >>>>hey check out j r sherman's myspace page... I guess j r doesn't like
> >>>>britney spears... he wants to watch her get raped... hmmm... you can
> >>>>search his friends and find joy yourcenar... yikes!!!
>
> >>>Nice way to show how much you don't obsess over jr.
>
> >>PedoKluck always did have a subtle approach to Usenet posting.
>
> >Plus it's a cool way to draw the heat away from the babysitter rape
> >fantasy poem he created. You know this one titled Perfect Angel.
>
> >Perfect Angel by 'a middle aged' Chuck Lysaght AKA
> ><the messenjah theguyontheb...@veryfast.biz>
> ><http://www.kookpedia.net/index.php/Chuck_Lysaght>
> ><http://www.myspace.com/chucklysaght>
>
> >>>> i knew it was wrong
> >>>> i'm not really a good babysitter
> >>>> i felt myself getting hard
> >>>> as she sat in my lap
> >>>> and then she kissed me
> >>>> i told her no
> >>>> she kept kissing me
> >>>> soon the passion
> >>>> was too much
> >>>> i grabbed her
> >>>> and slammed my swollen cock
> >>>>i nto her virgin pussy
> >>>> and exploded as she screamed
> >>>> hours of screams
> >>>> then...
> >>>> her parents came home
> >>>> asked if she did her homework
> >>>> and if she behaved
> >>>> she looked at me
> >>>> and wet her lips with her tongue
> >>>> i said yes
> >>>> she was a perfect angel
>
> >Hey, Meat Puppet, you realize that you just "published" Chuck's poem
> >to usenet without his permission, don't you? You do realize that, by
> >the reasoning of you and your k0oKfrendz, that makes you a "copyright
> >violator," don't you?
>
> >Or are you just too supid to remember how you K0Oked out about that
> >mere days ago on the same poetry groups?
>
> Jingle bells
> Jingle bells
> Jingle all the way
>
> Now sue me ya fuckwit.

Relax, Rusty; Meat Pie can't sue you for "copyright violation". For
one thing, he didn't write Jingle Bells. For another, he's never
written anything else, either.






==============================================================================
TOPIC: BOB DYLAN interpretations by AJ Weberman
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/t/9961bd14449a0d43?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 16 2009 1:14 pm
From: "Will Dockery"



"=z=" <shul...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:985eeff0-1afb-47cc...@m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 5, 12:40 pm, Will Dockery <will.dock...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 5, 12:22 pm, aj <rightwingbo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > The inventor of Dylanology, A. J. Weberman, is out with a new book
> > called RightWing Bob What the Liberal Media Doesn’t Want You To Know
> > About Bob Dylan This book uses classical hermeneutics to unearth the
> > subcontent of Bob Dylan’s poetry. In the future scholars will
> > conclude Bob Dylan was the William Shakespeare of his time; A. J.
> > Weberman knows this now. This book goes against all established
> > Liberal thought about Dylan so it will not be well received or widely
> > reviewed, despite its impeccable scholarship. The book reveals that:
> > Dylan poems such as Blowin In the Wind and Like A Rolling Stone
> > contain embedded racist subcontent praising apartheid. Bob Dylan, icon
> > of the Civil Rights Movements, wanted to see African Americans Blowin'
> > in the Wind, as they swayed from the business end of a lynch rope in a
> > cool Southern breeze. It is no accident that Dylan has a painting of
> > contented slaves on a Southern plantation hanging in a restaurant he
> > owns in Santa Monica.
>
> > BLOWIN’ IN THE WIND 1962
>
> > How many roads must a man walk down
> > Before you call him a man?
> > Yes, 'n' how many seas must a white dove sail
> > Before she sleeps in the sand?
> > Yes, 'n' how many times must the cannon balls fly
> > Before they're forever banned?
> > The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind
> > The answer is blowin' in the wind.
>
> > “How many roads” how many courses in life “must a man” must a nigger
> > “walk down” take such as rape, murder, theft, the creation of
> > dangerous public schools and generations of single welfare mothers
> > “Before you call him a man?” before the Whites realize that the nigger
> > is a genetically inferior being who can never amount to anything more
> > than a male servant, a subordinate, “man” as in ‘Man Friday’ which is
> > more like a “boy” (unless “man” had two meanings the first two lines
> > of Blowin’ In The Wind are redundant). “Yes, 'n' how many seas must a
> > white dove sail” how long will it take before White supremacist
> > apartheid (who ever heard of a black dove?) that brought racial peace
> > and stability to South Africa, sails effortlessly across the ocean to
> > America “Before she sleeps in the sand?” and becomes a part of America
> > history? “Yes, 'n' how many times must the cannonballs fly” how many
> > times must the niggers become suddenly enraged, commit gun crimes ‘fly
> > off the handle’ “Before they're forever banned?” before they are
> > treated in the same way as South Africa treats its niggers? Under the
> > former system of apartheid, “banned” meant to deprive a person
> > suspected of illegal activity of the right of free movement and
> > association with others “The answer” the answer to the ‘Negro
> > question’ in America “my friend, is blowin'” is spreading “in the
> > wind” in something that destroys “wind” as in ‘The winds of war.’ On
> > another level the answer is to treat niggers as they did in the Old
> > South, the answer is in White vigilantism, lynch ‘em and let ‘em blow
> > (cause to move by means of a current of air) in the wind! Billie
> > Holliday, Strange Fruit, “Southern trees bear a strange fruit / Blood
> > on the leaves and blood at the root / Black bodies swinging in the
> > southern breeze / Strange fruit hanging from the poplar trees.”
>
> > There were many other racist poems:
>
> > LIKE A ROLLING STONE 1966
> > You used to ride on the chrome horse with your diplomat
> > Who carried on his shoulder a Siamese cat
> > Ain't it hard when you discovered that
> > He really wasn't where it's at
> > After he took from you everything he could steal
>
> > “You used to ride” you used to allow to continue without interference,
> > you used to support “on the chrome horse” candidates who supported
> > regimes that practiced apartheid (South Africa is the world’s biggest
> > producer of chrome) “with your diplomat” and your government had
> > diplomatic relations with them while the South Africans “carried on
> > his shoulder” shouldered a burden, the White Man’s Burden of having to
> > uplift inferior races and cultures such as “a Siamese” a closely
> > connected or very similar; twin “cat” slang for a Black man, the South
> > Africans also have to deal with the burden of living with niggers
> > “Ain't it hard when you discovered that” ain’t it hard for Whites to
> > really believe “He really wasn't where it's at” that apartheid was an
> > evil system and was worthy of economic and political sanctions “After
> > he took from you everything he could steal” after you learned that
> > apartheid was “stolen” from Jim Crow a practice that originated with
> > Whites in America. “Steal” to use, appropriate, or preempt the use of
> > another's idea. In other words, apartheid is as American as apple pie.
>
> > PLEASE CRAWL OUT YOUR WINDOW 1966
>
> > Why does he look so righteous while your face is so changed
> > Are you frightened of the box you keep him in
> > While his genocide fools and his friends rearrange
> > Their religion of the little ten women
> > That backs up their views but your face is so bruised
> > Come on out the dark is just beginning.
>
> > “Why does he look so righteous” why does he think what he is doing to
> > White people is morally justifiable “while your face” while your race
> > “is so changed” is being changed and polluted by the Civil Rights
> > Movement “Are you frightened of the box you keep him in” are you
> > afraid of the ballot box, are you afraid to vote for Republicans who
> > don’t believe in integration? “While his genocide fools” while the
> > Democratic Party’s race mixing, mix master politicians who plan to
> > dilute, then virtually exterminate, the White race through
> > miscegenation “and his friends” and their friends; the Earl Warren
> > Supreme Court “rearrange” put into a new social order and arrangement
> > “Their religion of the” “religion” a cause pursued with zeal; such as
> > that of an activist jurist “little ten women” of the Supreme Court of
> > the United States with less (little) than ten justices “That backs up
> > their views” that supports the Democrats push for Civil Rights and
> > integration with their legal decisions such as Brown v. Board of
> > Education “but your face is so bruised” but it is your race that is
> > being blackened, discolored, niggerized, by being forced to associate
> > with a bunch of porch monkeys “Come on out” sarcastic; Come on, be
> > part of it “the dark” the race mixing with the darkies “is beginning”
> > has just taking its first steps to fruition.
>
> > The book explains why Dylan married a Black woman if he had these
> > feelings about African-Americans. Dylan despised Communists and wanted
> > to see them shipped off to the USSR so they could get a taste of what
> > Communism was really like. He would have been overjoyed if a
> > "President Goldwater" had nuked the Sovs back into the Stone Age.
>
> > GATES OF EDEN 1965
>
> > The savage soldier sticks his head in sand
> > And then complains
> > Unto the shoeless hunter who's gone deaf
> > But still remains
> > Upon the beach where hound dogs bay
> > At ships with tattooed sails
> > Heading for the Gates of Eden
>
> > “The savage soldier” sarcastic; General Dwight Eisenhower accused by
> > the far Right of being soft on Soviet Communism “sticks his head in
> > sand” ignores historical precedents like an ostrich “And then
> > complains" then bitches about Soviet expansionism in Cuba? “Unto the
> > shoeless” unto Nikita Khrushchev who took his shoe off and banged it
> > on the Soviet Delegations desk at the United Nations in 1960 “hunter”
> > John Fitzgerald Kennedy: “Khrushchev reminds me of the tiger hunter
> > who has picked a place on the wall to hang the tiger's skin long
> > before he has caught the tiger. This tiger has other ideas.” “who's
> > gone deaf” who ignores President Eisenhower’s complaints “But still
> > remains” but nonetheless remains “Upon the beach” in a protected area,
> > the United Nations “where hound dogs” diplomats “bay” express by
> > barking and howling; ‘A mob baying its approval’ “At ships” at
> > revolutions as in The Hour That The Ship Comes In 1963 “with tattooed
> > sails” with an indelible mark and design such as a Red Star “Heading
> > for the Gates of Eden” trying to destroy America by penetrating its
> > borders.
>
> > Dylan’s poems reveal he supported the Palestinian Intifada and has
> > compared Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians to the Nazis treatment
> > of the Jews. Dylan is HIV Positive and some of his poetry deals with
> > this illness. That is why he almost died of disseminated
> > histoplasmosis and why he was picked up by police wandering around
> > Long Branch, New Jersey in the pouring rain.
>
> > This book stands out in its complexity. It is the first to give any
> > real insight into the meaning of Dylan’s poems. If I were a debutante
> > out of Swarthmore who just published her first novel you would review
> > it. But you are probably going to ignore a mythical figure in American
> > literature like me who, according to Google, is mentioned in 480
> > books, because of the controversial nature of the subcontent that I
> > have decrypted and how I have expressed it. If in fact Dylan is a
> > racist he going to think in terms of nigger and porch monkey and coon
> > not African American. I am not here to cover up for Bob Dylan like the
> > rest of the journalists on the scene. I am here to expose him. I am A
> > J WEBERMAN. INFO 917-374-7024 or visit Dylanology.org.
>
> AJ, I recently found your 1970 (?) telephone interviews on YouTube, in
> several parts... I'd read about them for years but never had the
> chance to hear them until now... I don't always agree with your
> analysis of Dylan, but it sure is interesting insight. And, it seems
> that time has shown much of what you discovered in Dylan's lyrics have
> turned out to be true... I really hope the racist accusations are
> wrong, of course!
>
> --
> "Red Lipped Stranger & other stories" by Will
> Dockery:http://www.myspace.com/willdockery

Just goes to show how one can put a spin on anything...
I guess the line; “Wild horses, couldn’t drag me away”

Would interpret as:

People from the Middle East are guilty of racist to animals. Blowing
up themselves, dragging everyone out with them…(cows being the one
exception)…and the Rolling Stones are the enemy of the world…and
Dylan’s got their back. Eh?
=z=

//Yeah, the Stones certainly did seem to project that image, the
Anti-Beatles for quite a while there, Altamont, "Sympathy For The Devil" &
all that...

--
"Red Lipped Stranger & other stories" by Will Dockery:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery





== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 16 2009 6:52 pm
From: George Dance


On Nov 5, 12:22 pm, aj <rightwingbo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The inventor of Dylanology, A. J. Weberman, is out with a new book
> called RightWing Bob What the Liberal Media Doesn’t Want You To Know
> About Bob Dylan This book uses classical hermeneutics to unearth the
> subcontent of Bob Dylan’s poetry.  

'Hermeneutics' is just a fancy word for 'interpretation.' Any fool can
come up with a hidden interpretation of a text; the scholar's job is
to show why one interpretation is preferable to any other.

> In the future scholars will
> conclude Bob Dylan was the William Shakespeare of his time; A. J.
> Weberman knows this now. This book goes against all established
> Liberal thought about Dylan so it will not be well received or widely
> reviewed, despite its impeccable scholarship.

See above. 'Scholarship' involves more than interpreting a text; it
also entails showing that that interpretation is to be preferred over
other interpretations.

> The book reveals that:
> Dylan poems such as Blowin In the Wind and Like A Rolling Stone
> contain embedded racist subcontent praising apartheid. Bob Dylan, icon
> of the Civil Rights Movements, wanted to see African Americans
> Blowin' in the Wind,
> as they swayed from the business end of a lynch rope in a
> cool Southern breeze.

Well, let's see how well the book establishes that.

> It is no accident that Dylan has a painting of
> contented slaves on a Southern plantation hanging in a restaurant he
> owns in Santa Monica.
>

Did Dylan buy or choose the painting? Has he seen it? Has he even been
to the restaurant? Does the book explain whether he's see it or not?

> BLOWIN’ IN THE WIND 1962
>
> How many roads must a man walk down
> Before you call him a man?
> Yes, 'n' how many seas must a white dove sail
> Before she sleeps in the sand?
> Yes, 'n' how many times must the cannon balls fly
> Before they're forever banned?
> The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind
> The answer is blowin' in the wind.
>

The first two lines probably are about African Americans, so let's
look at the book's 'intepretation' of those.

> “How many roads” how many courses in life “must a man” must a nigger
> “walk down” take such as rape, murder, theft, the creation of
> dangerous public schools and generations of single welfare mothers
> “Before you call him a man?” before the Whites realize that the nigger
> is a genetically inferior being who can never amount to anything more
> than a male servant, a subordinate, “man” as in ‘Man Friday’ which is
> more like a “boy”

Well, that's an interesting interpretation of the two lines; but how
does the book show that it's preferred to this one:

How much do African Americans have to do (and how long will it take)
until you realize that they're human beings no different from you?

> (unless “man” had two meanings the first two lines
> of Blowin’ In The Wind are redundant).

That's the closest thing I've seen to an argument for the book's
interpretation, and it's not a very good one. One doesn't have to
postulate 'two meanings' of the same word in order to see that the two
lines use the word in different ways. The first line points out that
they are men; the second asks when you're going to recognize that.

<snip for focus>






==============================================================================
TOPIC: Black Dog / Led Zeppelin
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/t/705df262315655cd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 16 2009 1:43 pm
From: Will Dockery


Cythera <cyth...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> Whoa, what a title. Right away I hear Jimmy Page's guitar: dada dada
> DAda, etc. Love it; I'm on the hook

Yes, exactly the way I heard it, from a glance at the title... here's
a great one from Earls Court 1975:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6L4GixccLU

--
"Red Lipped Stranger & other stories" by Will Dockery:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery




== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 16 2009 6:17 pm
From: Will Dockery


Rik <rik.ro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Black Dog

<snipped for copyright purposes>

Led Zeppelin Black Dog Guitar Video Lesson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yoGXwH-bTc

"...JamPlay.com's own Matt Brown teaches you Led Zeppelin's "Black
Dog". Within minutes you'll be shredding like Jimmy Page."

For the full lesson, visit:
http://www.jamplay.com/guitar-lessons...

"...If you like what you see, subscribe to our YouTube channel to be
notified when we add other guitar lessons!"

> It's an intriguing read but it's not toddling into my loving arms yet.

To say the least.

--
"Red Lipped Stranger & other stories" by Will Dockery:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery





== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 16 2009 6:32 pm
From: "Will Dockery"


Shakespeare Sonnet-a-Day
Sonnet #98
Posted:
XCVIII.

From you have I been absent in the spring,
When proud-pied April dress'd in all his trim
Hath put a spirit of youth in every thing,
That heavy Saturn laugh'd and leap'd with him.
Yet nor the lays of birds nor the sweet smell
Of different flowers in odour and in hue
Could make me any summer's story tell,
Or from their proud lap pluck them where they grew;
Nor did I wonder at the lily's white,
Nor praise the deep vermilion in the rose;
They were but sweet, but figures of delight,
Drawn after you, you pattern of all those.
Yet seem'd it winter still, and, you away,
As with your shadow I with these did play.

-William Shakespeare

--
"Red Lipped Stranger & other stories" by Will Dockery:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery







==============================================================================
TOPIC: Trick of Light / Karla (revisted)
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/t/dfcfe4531810a6cc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 16 2009 4:58 pm
From: George Dance


On Nov 10, 8:18 am, Meat Plow <m...@petitmorte.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 03:30:52 -0800 (PST), Will Dockery
> <will.dock...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Nov 9, 11:41?am, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> >> On Nov 8, 7:40?am, Meat Plow <m...@petitmorte.net> wrote:
> >> > On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 06:46:20 -0800 (PST), George Dance wrote:
> >> > >On Nov 7, 6:43?am, Meat Plow <m...@petitmorte.net> wrote:
> >> > >> On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 20:00:21 -0500, "Will Dockery" wrote:
>
> >> > >> >Here's one of my favorite poems by Karla (I'm sure she won't mind me
> >> > >> >reposting it here, if she does I'll be glad to delete it):
>
> >> > >> But isn't it a violation of her copyright to publish her work without
> >> > >> her prior permission?
>
> >> > >I just "published" your question without your prior permission. Did I
> >> > >violate your copyright?
>
> >> > Aw isn't this sweet. Georgie the cocksucking (I DON'T FLAME) to the
> >> > rescue.
>
> >> Non-answer noted. I'll ask again:
>
> >> Do you really think that quoting your posts, without your permission,
> >> is a violation of your copyright?
>
> >Heh... you sure shut them up fast that time, George.
>
> It's not that Will. It's just that I didn't quite know how to respond

Either "Yes." or "No." It's that simple.





> to such an absolutely idiotic question. I'm really worried about
> George's state of mental health these days. I hope he is all right.





== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 16 2009 5:22 pm
From: Will Dockery


George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>Meat Plow <m...@petitmorte.net> wrote:
> >George Dance wrote:
> > >Meat Plow <m...@petitmorte.net> wrote:
> > >>"Will Dockery" wrote:
>
> > >> > >> >Here's one of my favorite poems by Karla (I'm sure she won't mind me
> > >> > >> >reposting it here, if she does I'll be glad to delete it):
>
> > >> > >> But isn't it a violation of her copyright to publish her work without
> > >> > >> her prior permission?
>
> > >> > >I just "published" your question without your prior permission. Did I
> > >> > >violate your copyright?
>
> > >> > Aw isn't this sweet. Georgie the cocksucking (I DON'T FLAME) to the
> > >> > rescue.
>
> > >> Non-answer noted. I'll ask again:
>
> > >> Do you really think that quoting your posts, without your permission,
> > >> is a violation of your copyright?
>
> > >Heh... you sure shut them up fast that time, George.
>
> > It's not that Will. It's just that I didn't quite know how to respond
>
> Either "Yes." or "No." It's that simple.

That would be a good start... heh.

--
"Red Lipped Stranger & other stories" by Will Dockery:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery




== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 16 2009 5:33 pm
From: "G&tSP"


On Nov 9, 11:47 am, Will Dockery <will.dock...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 9, 11:41 am, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 8, 7:40 am, Meat Plow <m...@petitmorte.net> wrote:
> > > On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 06:46:20 -0800 (PST), George Dance wrote:
> > > >On Nov 7, 6:43?am, Meat Plow <m...@petitmorte.net> wrote:
> > > >> On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 20:00:21 -0500, "Will Dockery" wrote:
>
> > > >> >Here's one of my favorite poems by Karla (I'm sure she won't mind me
> > > >> >reposting it here, if she does I'll be glad to delete it):
>
> > > >> But isn't it a violation of her copyright to publish her work without
> > > >> her prior permission?
>
> > > >I just "published" your question without your prior permission. Did I
> > > >violate your copyright?
>
> > > Aw isn't this sweet. Georgie the cocksucking (I DON'T FLAME) to the
> > > rescue.
>
> > Non-answer noted. I'll ask again:
>
> > Do you really think that quoting your posts, without your permission,
> > is a violation of your copyright?
>
> You might ask him and Barbie why they haven't noticed the multiple
> reposts of poems by poets such as Dennis M. Hammes, Rob "Evens" and
> others... since they seems so screamingly frothy over such events.
>
> --
> "Red Lipped Stranger & other stories" by Will Dockery:http://www.myspace.com/willdockery

It would be a waste of time to ask him, since he's pulling a Cythera
and refusing to answer any questions. It might, however, be worth
asking why Meat Plow reposted a poem without the author's permission
on all four poetry groups today. Why, if he thinks it's copyright
violation, is he running around doing it himself.

I doubt he'll answer that either; but, since (also like Cythera) he
has a habit of removing his posts, that at least allows us to get Meat
Plow's own little "copyright violation" in the Google archive.

--- Fwd. ---

Path: g2news2.google.com!news2.google.com!news.glorb.com!
news2.glorb.com!news.alt.net
From: Meat Plow <me...@petitmorte.net>
Newsgroups:
alabama.general,alt.music.country,alt.arts.poetry.comments,rec.music.makers,rec.arts.poems,rec.arts.poems,us.arts.poetry,alt.arts.poetry.urban,alt.poetry
Subject: Chuck Lysaght Rape Poetry (was Re: j r sherman
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 08:41:49 -0500
Organization: Altopia Corp. - Usenet Access - www.altopia.com
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On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 14:51:59 -0600, Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com>wrote:

>On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 11:17:17 -0500, Meat Plow <m...@petitmorte.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 08:19:46 -0800 (PST), the messenjah
>><theguyontheb...@veryfast.biz>wrote:
>>
>>>hey check out j r sherman's myspace page... I guess j r doesn't like
>>>britney spears... he wants to watch her get raped... hmmm... you can
>>>search his friends and find joy yourcenar... yikes!!!
>>
>>Nice way to show how much you don't obsess over jr.
>
>PedoKluck always did have a subtle approach to Usenet posting.

Plus it's a cool way to draw the heat away from the babysitter rape
fantasy poem he created. You know this one titled Perfect Angel.


Perfect Angel by 'a middle aged' Chuck Lysaght AKA
<the messenjah theguyontheb...@veryfast.biz>
<http://www.kookpedia.net/index.php/Chuck_Lysaght>
<http://www.myspace.com/chucklysaght>

>>> i knew it was wrong
>>> i'm not really a good babysitter
>>> i felt myself getting hard
>>> as she sat in my lap
>>> and then she kissed me
>>> i told her no
>>> she kept kissing me
>>> soon the passion
>>> was too much
>>> i grabbed her
>>> and slammed my swollen cock
>>>i nto her virgin pussy
>>> and exploded as she screamed
>>> hours of screams
>>> then...
>>> her parents came home
>>> asked if she did her homework
>>> and if she behaved
>>> she looked at me
>>> and wet her lips with her tongue
>>> i said yes
>>> she was a perfect angel

Who besides someone with a sick, deeply demented mind sits around and
dreams about raping our young girls who are still young enough to need
adult supervision? What age do most people start trusting their kids
alone at home? Hell I've seen 13 year olds baby sit for others. So
where does that leave Chuck Lysaght's imagination? Molesting/torturing
an 8-10 year old?

discuss






== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 16 2009 6:02 pm
From: Will Dockery


On Nov 16, 8:33 pm, "G&tSP" <gand...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> On Nov 9, 11:47 am, Will Dockery wrote:
> > On Nov 9, 11:41 am, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > > On Nov 8, 7:40 am, Meat Plow <m...@petitmorte.net> wrote:
> > > > On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 06:46:20 -0800 (PST), George Dance wrote:
> > > > >On Nov 7, 6:43?am, Meat Plow <m...@petitmorte.net> wrote:
> > > > >> On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 20:00:21 -0500, "Will Dockery" wrote:
>
> > > > >> >Here's one of my favorite poems by Karla (I'm sure she won't mind me
> > > > >> >reposting it here, if she does I'll be glad to delete it):
>
> > > > >> But isn't it a violation of her copyright to publish her work without
> > > > >> her prior permission?
>
> > > > >I just "published" your question without your prior permission. Did I
> > > > >violate your copyright?
>
> > > > Aw isn't this sweet. Georgie the cocksucking (I DON'T FLAME) to the
> > > > rescue.
>
> > > Non-answer noted. I'll ask again:
>
> > > Do you really think that quoting your posts, without your permission,
> > > is a violation of your copyright?
>
> > You might ask him and Barbie why they haven't noticed the multiple
> > reposts of poems by poets such as Dennis M. Hammes, Rob "Evens" and
> > others... since they seems so screamingly frothy over such events.
>
> > --
> > "Red Lipped Stranger & other stories" by Will Dockery:http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
>
> It would be a waste of time to ask him, since he's pulling a Cythera
> and refusing to answer any questions. It might, however, be worth
> asking why Meat Plow reposted a poem without the author's permission
> on all four poetry groups today. Why, if he thinks it's copyright
> violation, is he running around doing it himself.
>
> I doubt he'll answer that either; but, since (also like Cythera) he
> has a habit of removing his posts, that at least allows us to get Meat
> Plow's own little "copyright violation" in the Google archive.

Yes, interesting, indeed.

> --- Fwd. ---
>
> Path: g2news2.google.com!news2.google.com!news.glorb.com!
> news2.glorb.com!news.alt.net
> From: Meat Plow <m...@petitmorte.net>
> Newsgroups:
> alabama.general,alt.music.country,alt.arts.poetry.comments,rec.music.makers­,rec.arts.poems,rec.arts.poems,us.arts.poetry,alt.arts.poetry.urban,alt.poe­try
> Subject: Chuck Lysaght Rape Poetry (was Re: j r sherman
> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 08:41:49 -0500
> Organization: Altopia Corp. - Usenet Access -www.altopia.com
> Lines: 56
> Message-ID: <39oabv.91c.1...@news.alt.net>
> References: <3a63492c-83c5-4ad5-
> b099-2862ab398...@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com> <39lv3f.6kh.
> 1...@news.alt.net> <aeq0g5pg3526fmnj1brs9e9o5ikrmme...@4ax.com>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171
> X-No-Archive: yes
>
> On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 14:51:59 -0600, Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 11:17:17 -0500, Meat Plow <m...@petitmorte.net>
> >wrote:
>
> >>On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 08:19:46 -0800 (PST), the messenjah
> >><theguyontheb...@veryfast.biz>wrote:
>
> >>>hey check out j r sherman's myspace page... I guess j r doesn't like
> >>>britney spears... he wants to watch her get raped... hmmm... you can
> >>>search his friends and find joy yourcenar... yikes!!!
>
> >>Nice way to show how much you don't obsess over jr.
>
> >PedoKluck always did have a subtle approach to Usenet posting.
>
> Plus it's a cool way to draw the heat away from the babysitter rape
> fantasy poem he created. You know this one titled Perfect Angel.
>
> Perfect Angel by 'a middle aged' Chuck Lysaght AKA
> <the messenjah theguyontheb...@veryfast.biz>
> <http://www.kookpedia.net/index.php/Chuck_Lysaght>
> <http://www.myspace.com/chucklysaght>
>
> >>> i knew it was wrong
> >>> i'm not really a good babysitter
> >>> i felt myself getting hard
> >>> as she sat in my lap
> >>> and then she kissed me
> >>> i told her no
> >>> she kept kissing me
> >>> soon the passion
> >>> was too much
> >>> i grabbed her
> >>> and slammed my swollen cock
> >>>i nto her virgin pussy
> >>> and exploded as she screamed
> >>> hours of screams
> >>> then...
> >>> her parents came home
> >>> asked if she did her homework
> >>> and if she behaved
> >>> she looked at me
> >>> and wet her lips with her tongue
> >>> i said yes
> >>> she was a perfect angel
>
> Who besides someone with a sick, deeply demented mind sits around and
> dreams about raping our young girls who are still young enough to need
> adult supervision? What age do most people start trusting their kids
> alone at home? Hell I've seen 13 year olds baby sit for others. So
> where does that leave Chuck Lysaght's imagination? Molesting/torturing
> an 8-10 year old?
>
> discuss

--
"Red Lipped Stranger & other stories" by Will Dockery:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery




== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 16 2009 7:05 pm
From: "G&tSP"


On Nov 16, 9:02 pm, Will Dockery <will.dock...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 16, 8:33 pm, "G&tSP" <gand...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 9, 11:47 am, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > On Nov 9, 11:41 am, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > > > On Nov 8, 7:40 am, Meat Plow <m...@petitmorte.net> wrote:
> > > > > On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 06:46:20 -0800 (PST), George Dance wrote:
> > > > > >On Nov 7, 6:43?am, Meat Plow <m...@petitmorte.net> wrote:
> > > > > >> On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 20:00:21 -0500, "Will Dockery" wrote:
>
> > > > > >> >Here's one of my favorite poems by Karla (I'm sure she won't mind me
> > > > > >> >reposting it here, if she does I'll be glad to delete it):
>
> > > > > >> But isn't it a violation of her copyright to publish her work without
> > > > > >> her prior permission?
>
> > > > > >I just "published" your question without your prior permission. Did I
> > > > > >violate your copyright?
>
> > > > > Aw isn't this sweet. Georgie the cocksucking (I DON'T FLAME) to the
> > > > > rescue.
>
> > > > Non-answer noted. I'll ask again:
>
> > > > Do you really think that quoting your posts, without your permission,
> > > > is a violation of your copyright?
>
> > > You might ask him and Barbie why they haven't noticed the multiple
> > > reposts of poems by poets such as Dennis M. Hammes, Rob "Evens" and
> > > others... since they seems so screamingly frothy over such events.
>
> > > --
> > > "Red Lipped Stranger & other stories" by Will Dockery:http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
>
> > It would be a waste of time to ask him, since he's pulling a Cythera
> > and refusing to answer any questions. It might, however, be worth
> > asking why Meat Plow reposted a poem without the author's permission
> > on all four poetry groups today. Why, if he thinks it's copyright
> > violation, is he running around doing it himself.
>
> > I doubt he'll answer that either; but, since (also like Cythera) he
> > has a habit of removing his posts, that at least allows us to get Meat
> > Plow's own little "copyright violation" in the Google archive.
>
> Yes, interesting, indeed.
>


It will be interesting to see how he responds. Maybe he'll just call
me a cocksucker again. We know how Cythera loves that, and I'm sure
she's not the only one.


>
> > --- Fwd. ---
>
> > Path: g2news2.google.com!news2.google.com!news.glorb.com!
> > news2.glorb.com!news.alt.net
> > From: Meat Plow <m...@petitmorte.net>
> > Newsgroups:
> > alabama.general,alt.music.country,alt.arts.poetry.comments,rec.music.makers­,rec.arts.poems,rec.arts.poems,us.arts.poetry,alt.arts.poetry.urban,alt.poe­try
> > Subject: Chuck Lysaght Rape Poetry (was Re: j r sherman
> > Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 08:41:49 -0500
> > Organization: Altopia Corp. - Usenet Access -www.altopia.com
> > Lines: 56
> > Message-ID: <39oabv.91c.1...@news.alt.net>
> > References: <3a63492c-83c5-4ad5-
> > b099-2862ab398...@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com> <39lv3f.6kh.
> > 1...@news.alt.net> <aeq0g5pg3526fmnj1brs9e9o5ikrmme...@4ax.com>
> > Mime-Version: 1.0
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> > X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 5.00/32.1171
> > X-No-Archive: yes
>
> > On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 14:51:59 -0600, Fred Hall <fkh...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> > >On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 11:17:17 -0500, Meat Plow <m...@petitmorte.net>
> > >wrote:
>
> > >>On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 08:19:46 -0800 (PST), the messenjah
> > >><theguyontheb...@veryfast.biz>wrote:
>
> > >>>hey check out j r sherman's myspace page... I guess j r doesn't like
> > >>>britney spears... he wants to watch her get raped... hmmm... you can
> > >>>search his friends and find joy yourcenar... yikes!!!
>
> > >>Nice way to show how much you don't obsess over jr.
>
> > >PedoKluck always did have a subtle approach to Usenet posting.
>
> > Plus it's a cool way to draw the heat away from the babysitter rape
> > fantasy poem he created. You know this one titled Perfect Angel.
>
> > Perfect Angel by 'a middle aged' Chuck Lysaght AKA
> > <the messenjah theguyontheb...@veryfast.biz>
> > <http://www.kookpedia.net/index.php/Chuck_Lysaght>
> > <http://www.myspace.com/chucklysaght>
>
> > >>> i knew it was wrong
> > >>> i'm not really a good babysitter
> > >>> i felt myself getting hard
> > >>> as she sat in my lap
> > >>> and then she kissed me
> > >>> i told her no
> > >>> she kept kissing me
> > >>> soon the passion
> > >>> was too much
> > >>> i grabbed her
> > >>> and slammed my swollen cock
> > >>>i nto her virgin pussy
> > >>> and exploded as she screamed
> > >>> hours of screams
> > >>> then...
> > >>> her parents came home
> > >>> asked if she did her homework
> > >>> and if she behaved
> > >>> she looked at me
> > >>> and wet her lips with her tongue
> > >>> i said yes
> > >>> she was a perfect angel
>
> > Who besides someone with a sick, deeply demented mind sits around and
> > dreams about raping our young girls who are still young enough to need
> > adult supervision? What age do most people start trusting their kids
> > alone at home? Hell I've seen 13 year olds baby sit for others. So
> > where does that leave Chuck Lysaght's imagination? Molesting/torturing
> > an 8-10 year old?
>
> > discuss
>
> --
> "Red Lipped Stranger & other stories" by Will Dockery:http://www.myspace.com/willdockery






==============================================================================
TOPIC: Mind Games / Leisha Wharfield & George Dance
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/t/325d0963189f5b53?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 16 2009 6:22 pm
From: George Dance


On Nov 14, 9:51 pm, Karla <karl...@NEVERcomcast.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 17:56:20 -0800 (PST), George Dance
> <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> >On Nov 14, 2:05 pm, Karla <karl...@NEVERcomcast.net> wrote:
> >> On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 08:32:01 -0800 (PST), George Dance
> >> <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> >> >On Nov 13, 11:04 pm, Karla <karl...@NEVERcomcast.net> wrote:
> >> >> In article <9cb4c7d7-2ed8-4325-8392-060a5f61f...@a31g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
> >> >> George Dance says...
> >> >> >On Nov 7, 5:50 pm, Karla <karl...@NEVERcomcast.net> wrote:
> >> >> > >http://groups.google.com/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/msg/
> >> >> >7bfe85631...
>
> >> >> ><snip for focus>
>
> >> >> >> Also, did you make changes to try to achieve a certain meter? It should be
> >> >> >> noted that the villanelle has no meter requirements. Just number of lines,
> >> >> >> repeated end words and rhyme scheme.
>
> >> >> >It should be noted that this is wrong. First, the villanelle is a
> >> >> >verse form, which means it is written in a meter. The meter itself
> >> >> >isn't specified; there are villanelles in iambic pentameter (like
> >> >> >"Mind Games"), and also in iambic tetrameter ("Away"). As Wikipedia
> >> >> >puts it: "The villanelle has no established meter, although most
> >> >> >nineteenth-century villanelles have used trimeter or tetrameter and
> >> >> >most twentieth-century villanelles have used pentameter."
>
> >> >> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villanelle
>
> >> >> I disagree. It can be observed that many villanelles written in English utilize
> >> >> a meter but the form does not require one. I'm finishing up at work right now so
> >> >> I can't offer The Handbook of Literature's definition for 'villanelle'. I did
> >> >> find this quote from Handbook of Poetic Forms:
>
> >> >> "This French syllabic form has no set number of syllables per line; common
> >> >> choices seem to be between eight and eleven. (English versions of the villanelle
> >> >> sometimes appear in accentual syllabics, featuring a perennial favorite, iambic
> >> >> pentameter.) The villanelle carries a pattern of only two rhymes, and is marked
> >> >> most distinctively by its alternating refrain, which appears initially in the
> >> >> first and third lines of the opening tercet. In all, it comprises five tercets
> >> >> and a concluding quatrain.  Before the villanelle was made literary by the
> >> >> French in the late 1500s, it existed as a villanella, "an old Italian folk song
> >> >> with an accompanying dance."--from Handbook of Poetic Forms, ed. by Ron
> >> >> Padgett."
> >> ><http://www.public.asu.edu/~aarios/formsofverse/reports2000/
> >> >page8.html>
>
> >> >> Heh! I remembered your quote, found the page and copied it, and came back to post before I saw your link at the end: it's the same page, Alberto Rios's teaching notes.
>
> >> >> >Read out of context, the "no established meter" phrase could be
> >> >> >confusing.
>
> >> >> I hope my elaboration above clears up your confusion ;)
>
> >> >Thanks for the smiley. But i' interpret 'no set number of syllables'
> >> >in the Handbook quote as saying the same thing; Passerret's and most
> >> >of the 19th century ones are in iambic tetrameter (IT), but I've read
> >> >at least one in iambic trimeter, and IP was the 20th-century
> >> >standard.
>
> >> >As for the 'sometimes appear in accentual syllabics,' I'd call that a
> >> >concession to the dumbing down. (You're of course free to call it the
> >> >21st-century standard if you wish.)
>
> >> From A HANDBOOK TO LITERATURE by C. Hugh Holman. Based on the Original by
> >> William Flint Thrall and Addison Hibbard. Third Edition.
>
> >> "Villanelle: A French verse form calculated, through its complexity and
> >> artificiality, to give an impression of simplicity and spontaneity. The
> >> villanelle was originally chiefly pastoral and an element of formal
> >> lightness is still uppermost since it is frequently used for poetic
> >> expression which is idyllic, delicate, simple, and slight. The two refrain
> >> lines, however, can be repeated in such a way that they can be made
> >> thunderingly forceful and the poem can have an elementary gravity and
> >> power, as it has in Dylan Thomas's villanelle, "Do Not Go Gentle Into That
> >> Good Night." In form the villanelle is characterized by nineteen lines
> >> divided into five tercets and a final four-line stanza, and it uses only
> >> two rhymes. The division of verses is, then: aba aba aba aba aba abaa. Line
> >> 1 is repeated entirely to form lines 6, 12, 18, and line 3 is repeated
> >> entirely to form lines 9, 15, and 19: thus eight of the nineteen lines are
> >> refrain."
>
> >> That's all it says. I've quoted the entire section. You do have a possible
> >> out in that I quoted the third edition. Amazon has the 11th edition for
> >> sale.
>
> >I always have possible outs. I notice that the HoL definition gives,
> >as its genus, 'verse form.' Does the book also define 'verse form' or
> >'verse'?
>
> Yes, it does for verse. "Verse: is used in two senses (1) as a unit of
> poetry, in which case it has the same significance as 'line'; and (2) as a
> name given generally to metrical composition. In the second sense, 'verse'
> is simply a generic term applied to rhythmical and, most frequently,
> metrical and rhymed composition, the term poetry or poem being reserved
> especially to indicate verse of high merit. An inherent suggestion that
> verse is of a lower order than poetry lies in the fact that verse is used
> in association with such terms as 'society verse', 'occasioinal verse',
> etc., which it is generally conceded, are rarely applied to great poetry.
> The use of verse to indicate a stanza, while common, is not justified."
>

I decided to see if I had any books on the subject, and found only my
Coles Notes Dictionary of Literary Terms (Toronto: Coles, 2000). It
says pretty much the same thing; it could have even been cribbed from
the Handbook:

"Verse: (1) A line of poetry. (2) A general term for metrical
composition. (Poetry is usually reserved to indicate verse of high
merit See Poetry.)" (213)

So, since a 'verse form' is obviously not a line, it's a metrical
composition (ie, written in meter); agreed?

> Since last I wrote, I've looked at two other books: Mary Kinzie's A POET'S
> GUIDE TO POETRY and THE MAKING OF A POEM. A Norton Anthology of Poetic
> Forms. Edited by Mark Strand and Eavan Boland. Kinzie includes the
> villanelle in her section on linked forms. "The villanelle, literally
> rustic or pastoral, is a ocmplex 19-line French form in tercets with a
> final quatrain, in which the first and third lines repeat throughout as
> refrains, coming together again in the final couplet; a rhyme schem of aba
> is maintained." She then cites a ocuple of examples. She defines verse as
> "Literally, a turn that creates a line. Often implies metrical lines and
> occasionally some conventional features of theme when the poem is viewed as
> formulaic. However, verse can also be a useful term when attention is being
> called to a work that employs the line, whther metrical of free."
> Strand/Boland's quick look cites the rhyme scheme and repeated lines. The
> two pages after talk about the history of it and then repeat what I've
> written three times now about rhyme scheme and repetition.

I don't think the villanelle's rhyme scheme and repetition really
needs to be cited again. Since I've got the Cole's dictionary down,
though, I might as well turn the page and type in its definition, to
again point out its similarity to the Handbook's:

"Villanelle: A French verse form composed of nineteen lines divided
into five tercets and a final four-line stanza. Only two rhymes are
used, and the rhyme scheme is /aba, aba, aba, aba, aba, abaa. The
first line i repeated to form six, twelve and eighteen; the third line
is repeated to form lines nine, fifteen and nineteen. Thus, eight of
the nineteen lines are refrain." (214)

> I've thought
> about your assertion that "the villanelle is a verse form, which means it
> is written in a meter." I think that you are forgetting that verse forms
> include rhyme.

Some (probably most) verse forms rhyme. That doesn't mean that any of
those don't have a meter.

> See AHtL above re "metrical and rhymed composition."
>

Well, yes, the villanelle is an example of "metrical and rhymed
composition." I haven't forgotten that villanelles both rhyme and have
meter.







> >> >Because that dispute doesn't really apply to MLtP, as Leisha did not
> >> >'dumb down' in that sense. Her meter scanned for the most part as
> >> >flawless IP; it just didn't match her 'measure' (the term she gave me
> >> >for 'normal speech rhythms) in some places.
>
> >> I'm not sure if Leisha gave permission for us to re-post the original here
> >> for comparison, so I won't.
>
> >In her reply, she seemed to think the link you previously gave was
> >sufficient; and I don't want to bother her with another email asking
> >for more. In any case, we disagree on that point; I'd argue, and have,
> >that posting text to a group gives anyone permission to quote it on
> >that group.
>
> >I certainly think it would be in order to post an interlinear
> >comparison. If you don't want to because of ethical concerns, then
> >perhaps I should be the one to do that.
>
> >> When I read it the other day, in all but two
> >> places, it read supremely better than the re-write and the meaning was much
> >> clearer through out. The revised reads like meter first and poem second.
>
> >"Supremely better?" "Much clearer throughout?" That certainly makes me
> >want to pursue this.
>
> >> >> >Second, the villanelle "The first and third lines of the first stanza
> >> >> >are rhyming refrains that alternate as the third line in each
> >> >> >successive stanza and form a couplet at the close". [ibid]. The entire
> >> >> >lines are repeated, not just the end words.
>
> >> >> That was my mistake. Of course whole lines are repeated.
>
> >> >I wouldn't call it a mistake, exactly. I'm sure you've seen
> >> >villanelles that don't repeat end lines but only the end words, as
> >> >have I. NTTAWWT, if it's done for a reason: I bend and break forms
> >> >myself, as you know, but I think there has to some reason internal to
> >> >the poem to do that in every case. I didn't see any such reason in
> >> >MLtP, which used end-word 'refrains'; I thought rather that there was
> >> >a reason to use almost-indentical lines instead.
>
> >> >Did you see the quote by Philip Jason on Rios's page about the refrain
> >> >lines indicating obsessions? I don't know if I'd take that as a
> >> >general rule, but I think it applies very well to MG; the refrains are
> >> >the questions that have become obsessive in the relatioship.
>
> >> >> >There are examples of dumbed-down villanelles, written in free verse
> >> >> >and repeating only the end words. One that works well is Hayden
> >> >> >Carruth's "Saturday at the Border" --
>
> >> >> >http://www.theatlantic.com/unbound/poetry/atlpoets/carr9506.htm
>
> >> >> >-- which works because its variations on the form are an integral part
> >> >> >of its story: a 72-year-old guy tries to write his first villanelle.
> >> >> >Most of those, though, come across merely as failed attempts to write
> >> >> >a villanelle.
>
> >> >> Consider Andrew Lang's Villanelle:http://www.online-literature.com/andrew_lang/rhymes-a-la-mode/18/
>
> >> >I'd scan all of that as headless IT, with the arguable exception of L4
> >> >(which I'd call non-headless IT with a trochaic inversion at the
> >> >beginning), and L6 (which I'd say has a spondee substitution at the
>
> ...
>
> read more »





== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 16 2009 9:40 pm
From: prettystuzz


In article
<bafb1a30-a529-4b32...@a31g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
George Dance <george...@yahoo.ca> wrote:

> On Nov 14, 9:51 pm, Karla <karl...@NEVERcomcast.net> wrote:
> > On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 17:56:20 -0800 (PST), George Dance
> > <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > >On Nov 14, 2:05 pm, Karla <karl...@NEVERcomcast.net> wrote:
> > >> On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 08:32:01 -0800 (PST), George Dance
> > >> <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> > >> >On Nov 13, 11:04 pm, Karla <karl...@NEVERcomcast.net> wrote:
> > >> >> In article
> > >> >> <9cb4c7d7-2ed8-4325-8392-060a5f61f...@a31g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
> > >> >> George Dance says...
> > >> >> >On Nov 7, 5:50 pm, Karla <karl...@NEVERcomcast.net> wrote:
> > >> >> > >http://groups.google.com/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/msg/
> > >> >> >7bfe85631...
> >
> > >> >> ><snip for focus>

" " "


> > >> From A HANDBOOK TO LITERATURE by C. Hugh Holman. Based on the Original
> > >> by
> > >> William Flint Thrall and Addison Hibbard. Third Edition.
> >
> > >> "Villanelle: A French verse form calculated, through its complexity and
> > >> artificiality, to give an impression of simplicity and spontaneity. The
> > >> villanelle was originally chiefly pastoral and an element of formal
> > >> lightness is still uppermost since it is frequently used for poetic
> > >> expression which is idyllic, delicate, simple, and slight. The two
> > >> refrain
> > >> lines, however, can be repeated in such a way that they can be made
> > >> thunderingly forceful and the poem can have an elementary gravity and
> > >> power, as it has in Dylan Thomas's villanelle, "Do Not Go Gentle Into
> > >> That
> > >> Good Night." In form the villanelle is characterized by nineteen lines
> > >> divided into five tercets and a final four-line stanza, and it uses only
> > >> two rhymes. The division of verses is, then: aba aba aba aba aba abaa.
> > >> Line
> > >> 1 is repeated entirely to form lines 6, 12, 18, and line 3 is repeated
> > >> entirely to form lines 9, 15, and 19: thus eight of the nineteen lines
> > >> are
> > >> refrain."
> >
> > >> That's all it says. I've quoted the entire section. You do have a
> > >> possible
> > >> out in that I quoted the third edition. Amazon has the 11th edition for
> > >> sale.

I have only the Revised Edition.

> >
> > >I always have possible outs. I notice that the HoL definition gives,
> > >as its genus, 'verse form.' Does the book also define 'verse form' or
> > >'verse'?
> >
> > Yes, it does for verse. "Verse: is used in two senses (1) as a unit of
> > poetry, in which case it has the same significance as 'line'; and (2) as a
> > name given generally to metrical composition. In the second sense, 'verse'
> > is simply a generic term applied to rhythmical and, most frequently,
> > metrical and rhymed composition, the term poetry or poem being reserved
> > especially to indicate verse of high merit. An inherent suggestion that
> > verse is of a lower order than poetry lies in the fact that verse is used
> > in association with such terms as 'society verse', 'occasioinal verse',
> > etc., which it is generally conceded, are rarely applied to great poetry.
> > The use of verse to indicate a stanza, while common, is not justified."
> >
>
> I decided to see if I had any books on the subject, and found only my
> Coles Notes Dictionary of Literary Terms (Toronto: Coles, 2000). It
> says pretty much the same thing; it could have even been cribbed from
> the Handbook:
>
> "Verse: (1) A line of poetry. (2) A general term for metrical
> composition. (Poetry is usually reserved to indicate verse of high
> merit See Poetry.)" (213)
>

I can't decide which of you to send my tuition payments to.

Thrall and Hibbard and doubtless the other handbooks are school books.
I'll withhold payment until I know whether you think of poetry as a
school subject or a cultural activity.

I have M.H. Abrams's A Glossary of Literary Terms (based on the original
version by Dan S. Northon and Peters Rushton, and older than all of us).
As the entry word, Abrams spells it 'vilanelle' (and says "see Stanza"),
but in his glossing of stanza he spells it 'villanelle'. For 'Strophe'
he says "see Ode". I never, ever heard or saw 'strophe' used generically
until I saw it on these groups.

Peter Noone says "Second verse, same as the first".

Songs, id est, musical compositions, have verses. You can call the
verses in Rabbie Burns's songs stanzas or strophes; or you can elide him
from the literature anthologies that are required textbooks in schools;
or you can call Auld Lang Syne light verse or occasional verse.

Why are there still people here who want to make clear (or muddy)
distinctions between songs and poems, or 'song lyrics' and 'poetry'? I
know why. Who else knows why?

I didn't see 'critique' mentioned in my Thrall and Hibbard or in the
Abrams, or in Brooks and Warren. It's a co-opted New Age term of (cough)
art, its vogue sense probably aligning with the Human Potential Movement.

On the one hand there's poetry, on the other there's the boils on one's
asshole, as Robert Herrick said about his Heperides. And look again at
The Argument Of His Book:

I Sing of Brooks, of Blossomes, Birds, and Bowers:
Of April, May, of June, and July-Flowers.
I sing of May-poles, Hock-carts, Wassails, Wakes,
Of Bride-grooms, Brides and of their Bridall-cakes.
I write of Youth, of Love, and have Accesse
By these to sing of cleanly-Wantonnesse.
I sing of Dewes, of Raines, and piece by piece
Of Balme, of Oyle, of Spice and Amber-Greece.
I sing of Times trans-shifting, and I write
How Roses first came Red and Lilies White. [1]
I write of Groves, of Twilights, and I sing
The Court of Mab, and of the Fairie-King.
I write of Hell; I sing (and ever shall)
Of Heaven, and hope to have it after all. [2]


[1] I love writers who think of the names of colors as nouns.

[2] Isn't it cool how Herrick uses 'all' here, definitely not as
Jonson's noun usage in 'All is not sweet, all is not sound'?

The author of the captioning for this probably isn't a native-English
speaker:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTQA6bOiHkE





==============================================================================
TOPIC: A Moth Danced
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/t/948a65a366fc2244?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 16 2009 6:39 pm
From: Will Dockery


On Nov 14, 11:49 am, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> On Nov 12, 4:59 pm, BLACKPOOLJIMMY <Chippandf...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > A MOTH DANCED
>
> > One evening
> > red lights flashed
> > outside my window
> > and my face
> > throbbed red
> > as I watched
> > surreal men
> > in white
> > wheel her out
> > and her car
> > was quiet
> > under a street light
> > where a moth danced
> > and as the flashing lights
> > disappeared around
> > the corner
> > I felt my innocence
> > disappear
> > along with them.
>
> This is very nice. The short lines that give it urgency and punch, the
> use of just two concrete details ('red lights flashed' and 'men in
> white') to tell the reader the entire narrative, and above all that
> focus on the moth, are all excellent touches.
>
> Two suggestios: (1) I don't care for the two uses of 'red' in the
> first five lines. You could get rid of the first red, since the colour
> of the flashing lights is implied by 'my face throbbed red;' or you
> could substitute a rarer/more-exact colour word for the second. (2) As
> I enjoyed the moth image so much, and think it's so central to your
> poem, I think it should be flagged by being the longest line. That
> would mean shortening the next one. You could cut the 'and' and move
> it after 'corner' (IMO 'corner' does nothing as an end-word, or you
> could cut 'flashing' (since the reader already knows they're flashing
> lights; you told him that in L2).

Yes, excellent work, Jimmy... good to see another real poet join our
ranks.

--
"Red Lipped Stranger & other stories" by Will Dockery:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery






==============================================================================
TOPIC: Poets art quiz - The 400th one
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/t/43d3b204536c718e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 16 2009 7:13 pm
From: Tom Hendricks


The answer to, and winner (if any) for,
our last contest question of:

This duet by Billie Holiday and Louis Armstrong has
Satchmo saying the F word. Name the record.

IS
"My Sweet Hunk O' Trash". September '49. Decca withdrew the record and
put out a clean version! I wonder how it got past them in the first
place.

The prize winner was Cindy from San Antonio, Tx.
Congratulations.

Seems the rest of you had answers that had to be recalled too!

I don’t
dumb down,
so please
wise up.

Now on to a new Q.:

Win a copy of
my NEW cd CALLED ‘30′! - (first anti-band CD) or
my NEWER cd CALLED ‘NEXT”('06)
or my NEWEST cd CALLED ‘THIRDS” (May ‘07)
or my MORE NEWEST cd Called "FOUR-TH" '08
or my Just RELEASED MOST NEWEST cd CALLED '5-TH'(Nov.'09)
Hunkasaurus.com (has them all plus videos and more)

if you are the first to e-mail me at THIS ADDRESS:
tom-he...@att.net
with the correct answer to this art question*

The celebrated singer Vikki Carr has sung for five US Presidents.
When she was at the White House during the Ford administration, she
asked the president "What Mexican dish do you like?"
What was his response?

Readers, IF you like these puzzles and would
like to resend them to friends, post them on any
newsgroup, or any website, please do so.
The more the merrier!
For tons of past quizzes go to,
the musea website at musea.us
or the Musea blog at musea.wordpress.com
And don't forget the music/videos at hunkasaurus.com
http://www.Myspace.com/Musead (New Friends welcome)
http://www.youtube.com/TomHendricksMusea (all my videos)
Tom Hendricks
(editor of the 17 year old zine Musea)




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