son your penis envy is duly noted.... now climb back in that bedroom with your brother and, ahem.... bone up... you have 45 questions and 16 smoking guns to deal with -- attempting simple minded diversion won't work around here... so, get on it troll..... times a'wasten.....
I get my share of laughs here, but this is frighteningly disturbing. How can a grown man, a college professor, believe such crap?
Professor Jim Fetzer is actually postulating that a rubber Abraham Zapruder may have been on the pergola filming (fake filming? Who the heck knows) the assassination.
Fetzer:
"There are several possibilities, including that Zapruder was made of rubber, that Zapruder was not there at all, and that someone else stood in for him. We shall see." --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------- I think Fetzer needs a rubber room.
On Mar 16, 11:37 pm, aeffects <aeffect...@gmail.com> wrote:
> son your penis envy is duly noted.... now climb back in that bedroom > with your brother and, ahem.... bone up... you have 45 questions and > 16 smoking guns to deal with -- attempting simple minded diversion > won't work around here... so, get on it troll..... times a'wasten.....
Hey, Red-Nose...
Do you agree with the Nutty Professor?
Was the Zapruder on the pergola 11/22/63 fake? Made of rubber?
On Mar 16, 9:48 pm, Chuck Schuyler <chu...@am-mtg.com> wrote:
> I get my share of laughs here, but this is frighteningly disturbing. > How can a grown man, a college professor, believe such crap?
son, no surprise there, your a failed Insurance rep selling worthless reverse mortgages and stealing clients blind and Jim Fetzer is a university professor carrying a Ph.D. -- No brainer, troll!
>>> "Professor Jim Fetzer is actually postulating that a rubber Abraham Zapruder may have been on the pergola..." <<<
Yeah, I was ready to give Fetzer the benefit of the doubt about his "rubber Zapruder" remark, because I truly thought that was a tongue-in- cheek remark. (I mean, how could it NOT be?)
But evidently it might not be tongue-in-cheek on Kook Fetzer's part. That nutcase will apparently believe anything.
On Mar 17, 2:39 am, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>> "Professor Jim Fetzer is actually postulating that a rubber Abraham Zapruder may have been on the pergola..." <<<
> Yeah, I was ready to give Fetzer the benefit of the doubt about his > "rubber Zapruder" remark, because I truly thought that was a tongue-in- > cheek remark. (I mean, how could it NOT be?)
> But evidently it might not be tongue-in-cheek on Kook Fetzer's part. > That nutcase will apparently believe anything.
These unbelievable posts from a self described "Information Technology" EXPERT with over 12 years experience. Since, then, he's seen Gil Jesuses everywhere. Every new poster using AOL has been accused of being me. In addition, he was so convinced that I was the imposter, he complained to AIOE, the news server that I was using at the time, then announced that he had received an e-mail from them advising that I had been banned from the newsserver.
Justme told the world that he had "proven" that the imposter was me and as a result, had gotten me "banned" from AIOE, the server that I had been using at the time.
But when I proved that I could still post from that server, Justme claimed, without providing any evidence, that I could somehow circumvent the server's banlist.
"Took you all night and day to figure out how to deceive AIOE again huh Chico?"
Several photos and several different films show Zapruder and his secretary in different positions on the pergola at the same time. Wearing different clothes! Can you explain that?
<aaronhirshb...@yahoo.com> wrote: > Several photos and several different films show Zapruder and his > secretary in different positions on the pergola at the same time. > Wearing different clothes! Can you explain that?
> Aaron Hirshberg
I'm not an expert on the available techinques used to alter video circa 1963, but if the UFO videos circa the 1950's were so easily faked by ordinary citizens, one can only imagine what was possible in the hands of professionals prior to the extant film's appearance ala Groden in 1975.
I do know that the extant film does NOT represent the President's head wound as described by the witnesses in Dealey, at Parkland and at Bethesda and either ALL of the witnesses who saw a large exit wound at the back of the skull were wrong, or the film was altered some time while it was "locked away" in the vault at Life magazine.
I guess it depends on what one chooses to believe.
Maybe ONE day DVP will LEARN that Mr. Fetzer is an EDITOR, thus he did NOT make the claim DVP mentioned! I believe IF my memory serves me Mr. White noticed things while working with the extant Z-film THAT MADE HIM THINK THIS, and Mr. Fetzer is simply supporting the work in his book.
> Maybe ONE day DVP will LEARN that Mr. Fetzer is an EDITOR, thus he did > NOT make the claim DVP mentioned! I believe IF my memory serves me > Mr. White noticed things while working with the extant Z-film THAT > MADE HIM THINK THIS, and Mr. Fetzer is simply supporting the work in > his book.
> Am I correct on this Mr. Healy?
I believe all one has to do is read the front cover on any of the three books concerning 11/22/1963 events in Dealey Plaza, Dallas Texas to find: "edited" by James Fetzer Ph.D clearly displayed (I believe Dr. Fetzer has wrote and/or edited some 20 books in publication today and who knows how many scholarly articles) -- Further, what any of the book(s) contributors "thought," concluded and presented is of course their business and opinon, alone.
Perhaps a good exercise for Lone Nuts and trolls would be to read the front cover of those books... heaven forbid.... LMFAO!
I don't know of a single scholar in the country that takes Jimmy Fetzer serious. Not one. And I don't know of a single scholar that has even heard of David Healy. Healy's only claim to fame (and the point he always is forced to mention at every lull in the conversation) is that he is published. I have read David Healy's tripe and I wouldn't be too quick to brag about being published if I were him. Making a lot of bad caserole does not make someone a chef. I gave up contributing to the Sparticus long ago because it is like trying to talk about reality with the patients in a mental ward. That group has checked out of reality long ago and have taken up permanent residence in the netherworld. It is a waste of time trying to talk to Simkin's boys.
Concerning Jimmy Fetzer's latest claim. This is simply evidence that the Internet has NOT made the general populace smarter as many anticipated twenty years ago. The Internet has made people with a solid logical background much more aware of information, but it has also made the lunatic fringe much more goofy than they otherwise would have been able to become without the Internet.
We are living in an age when people will believe ANYTHING.
Steve <sahist...@yahoo.com> wrote: > On Mar 16, 9:21 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote: > > Healy ought to love this idiocy from Jim Fetzer. It's right up Mr. > > Crackpipe's alley:
> I don't know of a single scholar in the country that takes Jimmy > Fetzer serious. Not one. And I don't know of a single scholar that > has even heard of David Healy. Healy's only claim to fame (and the > point he always is forced to mention at every lull in the > conversation) is that he is published. I have read David Healy's > tripe and I wouldn't be too quick to brag about being published if I > were him. Making a lot of bad caserole does not make someone a chef. > I gave up contributing to the Sparticus long ago because it is like > trying to talk about reality with the patients in a mental ward. That > group has checked out of reality long ago and have taken up permanent > residence in the netherworld. It is a waste of time trying to talk to > Simkin's boys.
> Concerning Jimmy Fetzer's latest claim. This is simply evidence that > the Internet has NOT made the general populace smarter as many > anticipated twenty years ago. The Internet has made people with a > solid logical background much more aware of information, but it has > also made the lunatic fringe much more goofy than they otherwise would > have been able to become without the Internet.
> We are living in an age when people will believe ANYTHING.
> Steve Anderson
Yeah, I guess if anyone believes the SBT, they WILL believe anything!
>>> "Maybe ONE day DVP will LEARN that Mr. Fetzer is an EDITOR, thus he did NOT make the claim DVP mentioned! I believe IF my memory serves me[,] Mr. White noticed things while working with the extant Z-film THAT MADE HIM THINK THIS, and Mr. Fetzer is simply supporting the work in his book." <<<
Yes, Mega-Kook Jack White evidently was the first moron who came up with the idea that Zapruder was never on the pedestal, but it's quite clear that James Fetzer HIMSELF certainly ENDORSES such crazy talk....otherwise he wouldn't be talking about it on the Internet in the terms he is talking about it.
(Duh.)
Fetzer said:
"There are several possibilities, including that Zapruder was made of rubber, that Zapruder was not there at all, and that someone else stood in for him. We shall see."
Fetzer also made these loony statements:
"Zapruder and Sitzman may have been in the area, but I have always found it a bit odd that she would climb up on the pedestal, which would have been difficult for anyone but especially a woman in a dress, who, presumably, would want to preserve her modesty. But the question is a bit more basic than that, since we know that "the Zapruder film" is not a film that Zapruder--or anyone else!--could have taken, since it includes events, like the blow-out to the right- front, which are complete fabrications."
After reading comments like the ones above authored by James H. Fetzer, is it truly possible not to come away shaking your own head in bewilderment about how a person who is supposed to be quite "scholarly" regarding his research could believe such total nonsense for even TWO SECONDS?
Fetzer's entire theory regarding the Zapruder Film being a "complete fabrication" can be knocked down in just a few seconds by watching the 11/22/63 LIVE TELEVISION interview given by Abraham Zapruder himself on WFAA-TV in Dallas (which is an interview that took place no more than 2 hours after Zapruder took the famous 26-second home movie that Fetzer thinks is a "complete fabrication"):
How does Mr. Fetzer handle the fact that Abe Zapruder went on live TV within just a couple of hours of the assassination and told the world that he stood on "one of those concrete blocks that they have down by the Underpass" and took "some pictures" of the motorcade?
I guess Fetzer and Jack White MUST think that Abraham Zapruder is one of THE MAIN CONSPIRATORS in the cover-up regarding the Z-Film. How could Fetzer NOT think that, given his belief that Abe was probably not up on that "concrete block" at all on November 22nd? Crazy.
On Mar 17, 6:21 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
the insufferable David Von Pein aka Dave Reitzes drones on: ...
> I guess Fetzer and Jack White MUST think that Abraham Zapruder is one > of THE MAIN CONSPIRATORS in the cover-up regarding the Z-Film. How > could Fetzer NOT think that, given his belief that Abe was probably > not up on that "concrete block" at all on November 22nd? Crazy.
In article <13d3be02-a8ee-4486-a110-914c4c611...@k19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
aeffects <aeffect...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Mar 17, 6:21 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> the insufferable David Von Pein aka Dave Reitzes drones on: > ...
> > I guess Fetzer and Jack White MUST think that Abraham Zapruder is one > > of THE MAIN CONSPIRATORS in the cover-up regarding the Z-Film. How > > could Fetzer NOT think that, given his belief that Abe was probably > > not up on that "concrete block" at all on November 22nd? Crazy.
> a White Russian like old Abe? Nah.....
Zapruder's height measured in various photos results in a wide discrepancy of several inches. Therefore, Fetzer stated that if Zapruder could be several different heights, either the photos were altered -- or -- Zapruder must have been made of rubber. He was clearly being facetious in suggesting the latter. But rave on DVP.
>>> "Zapruder's height measured in various photos results in a wide discrepancy of several inches." <<<
Then--quite obviously--the people doing this kind of "measuring" (on 2- dimensional photos and films) are dead-wrong.
Rudy, do you think Abe Zapruder was lying to Jay Watson (and the world) on 11/22/63 when he said he was taking a film from the "concrete block down there by the underpass"?
>>> "Therefore, Fetzer stated that if Zapruder could be several different heights, either the photos were altered -- or -- Zapruder must have been made of rubber." <<<
Or -- the people doing the "measuring" don't know what the hell they're talking about.
I'll choose that latter option.
Naturally, that option is totally out of the question when talking to Anybody-But-Zapruder kooks though.
>>> "He was clearly being facetious in suggesting the latter." <<<
If you'll look at an earlier post of mine above, you'll see that I thought he was kidding about the "rubber" thing too. But, as it turns out, he was dead serious. Just look at his later posts at the Edu. Forum to see how serious he is. (Maybe Jim's head is made out of rubber. That'd explain a lot.)
>>> "But rave on DVP." <<<
Nah. I'll let Fetzer do the raving. He's good at it.
In article <84fb7bc8-5f29-48d0-aebc-6e9b60ee0...@l16g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> >>> "Zapruder's height measured in various photos results in a wide > >>> discrepancy of several inches." <<<
> Then--quite obviously--the people doing this kind of "measuring" (on 2- > dimensional photos and films) are dead-wrong.
> Rudy, do you think Abe Zapruder was lying to Jay Watson (and the > world) on 11/22/63 when he said he was taking a film from the > "concrete block down there by the underpass"?
Z stated his name twice to Watson as "Zapruda" -- Watson repeated it: "Zapruda." Someone who claimed he knew Abe Zapruder for years went on record to say that the guy Watson interviewed on camera "was not the Abe Zapruder he knew for years."
Some of the photos showed Sitzman standing in front of Zapruder blocking his camera. Was she transparent allowing Zapruder to shoot through her?
Zapruder said he began filming as the limo came into sight on Houston St and he never stopped filming until the limo left the plaza. So why isn't the turn onto Elm St seen on his film??
In at least one photo, no one is on the Zapruder pedestal yet the motorcade is still passing that location. How can that be?
I don't have the answers but suffice to say, there are irregularities and inconsistencies in the photographic record. Fetzer, I believe, is attempting to address these issues. He is not infallible, but he may be asking the right questions.
Have you ever stood on Zapruder's pedestal? Zapruder said he suffered vertigo. I don't. But I found standing up there to feel precarious, at best. Add to that, closing one eye and looking through the tiny viewfinder of a camera exactly like Zapruder's. And then being startled by the sound of gunshots. If Z really had vertigo he would've fallen or at least jumped down onto solid ground IMO. So asking questions or raising issues may be reasonable to do -- it's better than simply accepting the prevailing story with blind faith.
> >>> "Therefore, Fetzer stated that if Zapruder could be several different > >>> heights, either the photos were altered -- or -- Zapruder must have been > >>> made of rubber." <<<
> Or -- the people doing the "measuring" don't know what the hell > they're talking about.
> Naturally, that option is totally out of the question when talking to > Anybody-But-Zapruder kooks though.
> >>> "He was clearly being facetious in suggesting the latter." <<<
> If you'll look at an earlier post of mine above, you'll see that I > thought he was kidding about the "rubber" thing too. But, as it turns > out, he was dead serious. Just look at his later posts at the Edu. > Forum to see how serious he is. (Maybe Jim's head is made out of > rubber. That'd explain a lot.)
> >>> "But rave on DVP." <<<
> Nah. I'll let Fetzer do the raving. He's good at it.
It must be a real bitch for you, Von Pein, to have been thrown out of the Education Forum. Your constant postings citing that forum shows that you have a tough time letting go........your pain is so obvious.
Perhaps if you quote yourself, you'll feel better.
On Mar 18, 7:51 am, Gil Jesus <gjjm...@aol.com> wrote:
> It must be a real bitch for you, Von Pein, to have been thrown out of > the Education Forum. Your constant postings citing that forum shows > that you have a tough time letting go........your pain is so obvious.
> Perhaps if you quote yourself, you'll feel better.
Gil,
Are you attacking DVP, defending/endorsing Rudy's views, or a little of both.
Do you honestly think a fake/duplicate/rubber/impostor Abe Zapruder filmed/fake filmed the assassination?
Do you realize how utterly retarded the notion of putting a 'fake' Zapruder on the knoll to film or fake film the assassination is?
And for what purpose did this whole secret plot-within-a-plot occur? Most of you kooks think the Z film was altered later, so we have the hilarious prospect of some super secret cabal who somehow knew the real old man Zapruder would be in town that day, would be near the knoll, be with a secretary dumb enough not to notice the guy she was propping up on the knoll was a rubber fake, and would somehow be able to get his movie camera (and how did *they* know Z owned a home movie camera) in the hands of the impostor/rubber/fake Zapruder--so the evil doers could later 'alter' the film!!!
Why bother filming at all?
Next, they get secretary Sitzman and Zapruder to lie about this for the rest of their lives. Perhaps the guys that hypnotized Sirhan Sirhan were rolled out for this mind control project.
So, Gil...did Abe Zapruder stand on that knoll with his movie camera or not?
> In article > <13d3be02-a8ee-4486-a110-914c4c611...@k19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
> aeffects <aeffect...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Mar 17, 6:21 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> > the insufferable David Von Pein aka Dave Reitzes drones on: > > ...
> > > I guess Fetzer and Jack White MUST think that Abraham Zapruder is one > > > of THE MAIN CONSPIRATORS in the cover-up regarding the Z-Film. How > > > could Fetzer NOT think that, given his belief that Abe was probably > > > not up on that "concrete block" at all on November 22nd? Crazy.
> > a White Russian like old Abe? Nah.....
> Zapruder's height measured in various photos results in a wide > discrepancy of several inches. Therefore, Fetzer stated that if > Zapruder could be several different heights, either the photos > were altered -- or -- Zapruder must have been made of rubber. > He was clearly being facetious in suggesting the latter. But > rave on DVP.
But the point remains Rudy, you are basing your ridiculous premise on the work of JACK WHITE. Have you read ANYTHING about Jack White's public embarassments over his lack of expertise? He graduated from the same university Robert Groden did. For ANYONE to place any level of credence in Jack White is evidence that they don't select their "experts" very carefully. Within the "conspiracy nut community" Jack White is a god. Within the world of real photographic experts Jack White is a nobody who has never done ANYTHING of note. Of course if you ask Jack about this (which I have done many times) he points out that he doesn care if people laugh at him, (he then proudly says) people laughed at Copernicus, people laughed at Galileo, and people laughed at Einstein. As I pointed out to old crazy Jack--people also laughed at the Three Stooges. Crazy Jack's followers like David Healy have deluded themselves into thinking they are on the cutting edge of breaking this case wide open. They have been making that claim since about 1975. They will both die some day and will not even be a minor footnote in the history of REAL historical investigation. And then their deluded followers will shrug their shoulders and start following the next messiah. Having studied history for thirty years I've seen this happen time and time and time again.
Steve <sahist...@yahoo.com> wrote: > On Mar 18, 2:38 am, Rudy Lasparri <Rudy...@gmail.com> wrote: > > In article > > <13d3be02-a8ee-4486-a110-914c4c611...@k19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
> > aeffects <aeffect...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Mar 17, 6:21 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > the insufferable David Von Pein aka Dave Reitzes drones on: > > > ...
> > > > I guess Fetzer and Jack White MUST think that Abraham Zapruder is one > > > > of THE MAIN CONSPIRATORS in the cover-up regarding the Z-Film. How > > > > could Fetzer NOT think that, given his belief that Abe was probably > > > > not up on that "concrete block" at all on November 22nd? Crazy.
> > > a White Russian like old Abe? Nah.....
> > Zapruder's height measured in various photos results in a wide > > discrepancy of several inches. Therefore, Fetzer stated that if > > Zapruder could be several different heights, either the photos > > were altered -- or -- Zapruder must have been made of rubber. > > He was clearly being facetious in suggesting the latter. But > > rave on DVP.
> But the point remains Rudy, you are basing your ridiculous premise on > the work of JACK WHITE. Have you read ANYTHING about Jack White's > public embarassments over his lack of expertise? He graduated from > the same university Robert Groden did. For ANYONE to place any level > of credence in Jack White is evidence that they don't select their > "experts" very carefully. Within the "conspiracy nut community" Jack > White is a god. Within the world of real photographic experts Jack > White is a nobody who has never done ANYTHING of note. Of course if > you ask Jack about this (which I have done many times) he points out > that he doesn care if people laugh at him, (he then proudly says) > people laughed at Copernicus, people laughed at Galileo, and people > laughed at Einstein. As I pointed out to old crazy Jack--people also > laughed at the Three Stooges. Crazy Jack's followers like David Healy > have deluded themselves into thinking they are on the cutting edge of > breaking this case wide open. They have been making that claim since > about 1975. They will both die some day and will not even be a minor > footnote in the history of REAL historical investigation. And then > their deluded followers will shrug their shoulders and start following > the next messiah. Having studied history for thirty years I've seen > this happen time and time and time again.
Jack White worked in the graphic arts business for his entire career having had his own agency. He has decades worth of photographic experience and expertise. Sometimes he is right, sometimes he is wrong. What sets him apart IMO is that when he is wrong he admits it. Others refuse to admit when they are wrong and they go on bloviating and digging themselves in deeper. Jack has not promoted garbage like James Files, Judyth Baker, Dan Marvin, et al. He has analyzed photos and shared his analysis with those who were interested in it.
Funny you mention Groden. When Groden worked as a photo expert to HSCA he had no qualifications to do so. His former boss Moses Weitzman once wrote that he had a junior technician (Groden) who worked for him in the late 60s and who helped himself to a copy of the Zapruder film (without permission) and "made a career out of it." Weitzman had been contracted by Time, Inc to make a 35mm copy of the Z film. Today, there are about 6 different versions of the extant Z film of varying quality. Some have been subjected to Groden's stabilizing, frame enlargement, Grodenscoping, etc There does not seem to be a version of the film which hasn't passed through Groden as a conduit. He even has a version which have the frames that Life "accidentally" lost restored!
> On Mar 18, 2:38 am, Rudy Lasparri <Rudy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > In article > > <13d3be02-a8ee-4486-a110-914c4c611...@k19g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
> > aeffects <aeffect...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Mar 17, 6:21 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > the insufferable David Von Pein aka Dave Reitzes drones on: > > > ...
> > > > I guess Fetzer and Jack White MUST think that Abraham Zapruder is one > > > > of THE MAIN CONSPIRATORS in the cover-up regarding the Z-Film. How > > > > could Fetzer NOT think that, given his belief that Abe was probably > > > > not up on that "concrete block" at all on November 22nd? Crazy.
> > > a White Russian like old Abe? Nah.....
> > Zapruder's height measured in various photos results in a wide > > discrepancy of several inches. Therefore, Fetzer stated that if > > Zapruder could be several different heights, either the photos > > were altered -- or -- Zapruder must have been made of rubber. > > He was clearly being facetious in suggesting the latter. But > > rave on DVP.
> But the point remains Rudy, you are basing your ridiculous premise on > the work of JACK WHITE. Have you read ANYTHING about Jack White's > public embarassments over his lack of expertise? He graduated from > the same university Robert Groden did. For ANYONE to place any level > of credence in Jack White is evidence that they don't select their > "experts" very carefully. Within the "conspiracy nut community" Jack > White is a god. Within the world of real photographic experts Jack > White is a nobody who has never done ANYTHING of note. Of course if > you ask Jack about this (which I have done many times) he points out > that he doesn care if people laugh at him, (he then proudly says) > people laughed at Copernicus, people laughed at Galileo, and people > laughed at Einstein. As I pointed out to old crazy Jack--people also > laughed at the Three Stooges. Crazy Jack's followers like David Healy > have deluded themselves into thinking they are on the cutting edge of > breaking this case wide open. They have been making that claim since > about 1975. They will both die some day and will not even be a minor > footnote in the history of REAL historical investigation. And then > their deluded followers will shrug their shoulders and start following > the next messiah. Having studied history for thirty years I've seen > this happen time and time and time again.
sitdown, breath deeply Steve-a-reno... you're going to develope a severe case of dandruff and we ALL know what that means....
Ya haven't pointed out a thing (other than you're a turd eating fucking moron of course), well, you're fear of course, which rides high and dry. Steve-o its best if you recall your drubbing around here over the years, the last time especially when you fired a rifle for the first time. Now in that case you immediately became a 3 shot-3 hit DP assassination expert....
So hon, if ya can't shake a bit of urine of the end of your wee-wittle tally-whacker (when you're through peeing :)) without getting excited, how can we depend on your incessent prognostications around here? So sit quietly, .john will send a bus for you in a bit. We don't want you to get lost...... Thank You, Management
