Several alternatives for aspirin therapy

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Jason

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Nov 15, 2009, 11:22:46 PM11/15/09
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Some cardiologists recommend that everyone over age forty take a daily
low-dose aspirin as part of good cadiovascular prevention.

The problem is that aspirin is one of the causes of gastrointestional bleeding.

These are some of the supplements that can keep the blood at a healthy
viscosity without eroding the digestive tract:

fish oil
garlic
ginger
bromeain
full sprectrum Vit. E
magnesium

Also,
nattokinase
niacin
Lumbrokinase

The above info. was obtained from the following book:

REVERSE HEART DISEASE NOW
by Stephen T. Sinatra, M.D. and James C. Roberts, M.D.
Dr. Sinatra and Dr. Roberts are both cardiologists.


Don Kirkman

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Nov 16, 2009, 2:17:41 AM11/16/09
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It seems to me I heard somewhere that Jason wrote in article
<Jason-15110...@67-150-123-48.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>:

>Some cardiologists recommend that everyone over age forty take a daily
>low-dose aspirin as part of good cadiovascular prevention.

>The problem is that aspirin is one of the causes of gastrointestional bleeding.

Of course for the minority of patients who develop gastrointestinal
bleeding it would be contraindicated, but it continues to be a
relatively safe, cheap, and effective treatment.

>These are some of the supplements that can keep the blood at a healthy
>viscosity without eroding the digestive tract:

>fish oil
>garlic
>ginger
>bromeain
>full sprectrum Vit. E
>magnesium

>Also,
>nattokinase
>niacin
>Lumbrokinase

>The above info. was obtained from the following book:

Which of the above keep the platelets from adhering to each other and
causing clots, which is the reason doctors prescribe aspirin for heart
patients?

>REVERSE HEART DISEASE NOW
>by Stephen T. Sinatra, M.D. and James C. Roberts, M.D.
>Dr. Sinatra and Dr. Roberts are both cardiologists.

The book is about reducing plaque, not about "healthy viscosity" and
not about preventing clotting. FWIW my cardiologist told me over ten
years ago that there is no medication that actually reduces plaque,
though some statins may cause it to consolidate and shrink somewhat.
If a newer medication does reduce plaque, so much the better--but it
has nothing to do with the function aspirin performs in cardiac
patients.

No discussion of the book I found in Google even contains the word
"aspirin." It's irresponsible to give advice if you don't even know
the mechanisms and medications involved in the issue.
--
Don Kirkman
don...@charter.net

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

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Nov 16, 2009, 6:37:22 AM11/16/09
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Don Kirkman wrote:

> Jason wrote:
>
> >Some cardiologists recommend that everyone over age forty take a daily
> >low-dose aspirin as part of good cadiovascular prevention.
>
> >The problem is that aspirin is one of the causes of gastrointestional bleeding.
>
> Of course for the minority of patients who develop gastrointestinal
> bleeding it would be contraindicated, but it continues to be a
> relatively safe, cheap, and effective treatment.

Moreover, as discussed in another SMC thread, it remains wiser for
people at very low risk for heart attacks and strokes, where risk of
GI bleeding from the aspirin would be greater than benefit of primary
prevention, to reduce their cardiovascular risk to zero by losing
their visceral adiposity by eating the right amount (32 oz/day):

http://WDJW.net/BeSmart

May GOD give you, Don, a new heart and a new spirit (Ezekiel 11:19-20
and 36:26) so that you would be born again of water and Spirit (John
3:3 and 3:5) so that you would come to trust the truth, Who is Jesus:

http://T3WiJ.com

Amen.

Be hungrier, which truly is healthier especially for diabetics and
other heart disease patients:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9642aafa0aad16eb?

Marana tha

Prayerfully in the awesome name of our Messiah, LORD Jesus Christ,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-certified Cardiologist
and Author of the 2PD-OMER Approach:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/f882137d4e2858d8?

ver...@gefinden.com

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Nov 16, 2009, 1:01:53 PM11/16/09
to
"prevention, to reduce their cardiovascular risk to zero by losing
their visceral adiposity by eating the right amount (32 oz/day):"

Truth:

The two pound diet,aka 2pd etc. is quack science. It has flaws of both
fact and logic. It was invented to fit a preexisting agenda and does
not flow from evidence based on research. The diet inventor has many
times been appraised of his flaws but clings to them for reasons other
then science or valid medical practice


All of this nonsense of measure by weight or volume comes from the
agenda fitting, not well established research. But sadly even the
agenda is based on misunderstood and misapplied information. Even when
corrected, the author of the agenda for nothing but pride and vain face
saving can not deal with that truth.

The weight part came from a failed knowledge of a particular verse in
scripture. When shown to be wrong, he promptly said he had been given a
new interpretation to set the record straight. And of course this new
information led where the agenda demands.

Bottom line, ignore any reference to the two pound diet,aka 2 pd etc.
and stick with established information and sources of expert authorities
which do not include the vanity of vanity distorting reality in this
case.

There is a larger problem then misinformation obvious to anyone familiar
with the inventor's posts.

May God bless and protect and heal.

Jason

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Nov 17, 2009, 2:27:20 AM11/17/09
to
In article <60u1g51r1mccohg4h...@4ax.com>,
don...@charter.net wrote:

My best guess is Lumbrokinase, fish oil and Nattokinase. The two doctors
claim that those three supplements help to keep the blood thin. Here is a
direct quote from the book:

"We've already seen how one supplement--fish oil--helps keep blood thin.
But many individuals...may need something even stonger. That's where
nattokinase and lumbrokinase come in...." page 105

They go on to say that natto. and lumbro. are "clot busters" (pg. 107)


> >REVERSE HEART DISEASE NOW
> >by Stephen T. Sinatra, M.D. and James C. Roberts, M.D.
> >Dr. Sinatra and Dr. Roberts are both cardiologists.
>
> The book is about reducing plaque, not about "healthy viscosity" and
> not about preventing clotting. FWIW my cardiologist told me over ten
> years ago that there is no medication that actually reduces plaque,
> though some statins may cause it to consolidate and shrink somewhat.
> If a newer medication does reduce plaque, so much the better--but it
> has nothing to do with the function aspirin performs in cardiac
> patients.

Have you read the book? If so, you should know that the two cardiologists
that wrote the book do discuss reducing plaque as well as healthy
viscosity (see page 90).


>
> No discussion of the book I found in Google even contains the word
> "aspirin." It's irresponsible to give advice if you don't even know
> the mechanisms and medications involved in the issue.

Aspirin is mentioned in the index and on page 90.

I suggest that you read the book before discussing information that is in
a book that you have not yet read.


Don Kirkman

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Nov 17, 2009, 2:19:46 AM11/17/09
to
It seems to me I heard somewhere that Jason wrote in article
<Jason-16110...@67-150-121-86.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>:

>> It seems to me I heard somewhere that Jason wrote in article
>> <Jason-15110...@67-150-123-48.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>:

>> >Some cardiologists recommend that everyone over age forty take a daily
>> >low-dose aspirin as part of good cadiovascular prevention.

>> >The problem is that aspirin is one of the causes of gastrointestional
>bleeding.

>> Of course for the minority of patients who develop gastrointestinal
>> bleeding it would be contraindicated, but it continues to be a
>> relatively safe, cheap, and effective treatment.

>> Which of the above keep the platelets from adhering to each other and
>> causing clots, which is the reason doctors prescribe aspirin for heart
>> patients?

>My best guess is Lumbrokinase, fish oil and Nattokinase. The two doctors
>claim that those three supplements help to keep the blood thin. Here is a
>direct quote from the book:

Your best guess is meaningless. I asked a medical question.

>"We've already seen how one supplement--fish oil--helps keep blood thin.
>But many individuals...may need something even stonger. That's where
>nattokinase and lumbrokinase come in...." page 105

>They go on to say that natto. and lumbro. are "clot busters" (pg. 107)

But aspirin is not a blood thinner nor a "clot buster." It reduces
the tendency to clot by keeping platelets from sticking together.

Please don't use guesswork if you want to discuss medical issues.


>> >REVERSE HEART DISEASE NOW
>> >by Stephen T. Sinatra, M.D. and James C. Roberts, M.D.
>> >Dr. Sinatra and Dr. Roberts are both cardiologists.
>>
>> The book is about reducing plaque, not about "healthy viscosity" and
>> not about preventing clotting. FWIW my cardiologist told me over ten
>> years ago that there is no medication that actually reduces plaque,
>> though some statins may cause it to consolidate and shrink somewhat.
>> If a newer medication does reduce plaque, so much the better--but it
>> has nothing to do with the function aspirin performs in cardiac
>> patients.

>Have you read the book? If so, you should know that the two cardiologists
>that wrote the book do discuss reducing plaque as well as healthy
>viscosity (see page 90).

If you had read my paragraph directly above this response you would
see that I wrote exactly that in the first six words of the first
sentence.

>> No discussion of the book I found in Google even contains the word
>> "aspirin." It's irresponsible to give advice if you don't even know
>> the mechanisms and medications involved in the issue.

>Aspirin is mentioned in the index and on page 90.

"Aspirin" in the index is no evidence for anything. Saying it is
mentioned on page 90 is equally useless.

>I suggest that you read the book before discussing information that is in
>a book that you have not yet read.

I'm not discussing information that is in the book but information you
are putting forth that is not in the book--that other medications are
equivalent to aspirin therapy for cardiac patients.
--
Don Kirkman
don...@charter.net

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

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Nov 17, 2009, 3:31:10 AM11/17/09
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Bottom line concerning your feigned issues with the 2PD-OMER Approach:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/ba8379f6c69b4310?

<><

"The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the
LORD." (Proverbs 16:33)

Amen.

A Spirit-guided exegesis of Proverbs 16:33 ...

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/085dcffcafb7e4e2?

Nothing happens by chance because everything happens only as GOD
allows it (Ecclesiastes 9:11):

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/21527d1832960109?

Sign that GOD can easily unleash an H5N1 Pandemic, for which there is
no vaccine, at any time:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/a4581567229974c0?

What we are teaching to prepare folks in our local communities for the
probable eventuality of a Pan-Flu virus deadlier than the current H1N1
Pandemic virus (i.e. one for which there is no vaccine):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfmkax1wbRU

How to not be fearful:

Trust the truth, Who is Jesus !!!

http://T3WiJ.com

May dear neighbors, friends, and brethren have a blessedly wonderful
2009th year since the birth of our LORD Jesus Christ as our Messiah,
the Son of Man ...

... by being hungrier:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/f891e617d10bd689?

Hunger is wonderful ! ! !

It's how we know the answer to the question "What does Jesus
want?" (WDJW):

http://WDJW.net

Yes, hunger is our knowledge of good versus evil that Adam and Eve
paid for with their and our immortal lives:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/52a3db8576495806?

Hunger is the physical "hearts burning within us" feeling that unlocks
the 4 mysteries of the "Road to Emmaus" adventure described in Luke
24:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/386f56c2f6d0b154?

Moreover, being hungrier is the key to being Jesus' disciples:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/bd20d7c4fe878897?

Being physically hungrier is how we will physically recognize Jesus
when He physically returns for us to meet Him physically in the air:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/ffa6609710ea9587?

"Blessed are you who hunger NOW...

... for you will be satisfied." -- LORD Jesus Christ (Luke 6:21)

Amen.

Here is a Spirit-guided exegesis of Luke 6:21 given in hopes of
promoting much greater understanding:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/cc2aa8f8a4d41360?

Jesus is LORD, forever !!!

http://JiL4ever.net

Be hungrier, which is truly healthier especially for diabetics and

Ken

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Nov 17, 2009, 10:16:31 AM11/17/09
to
Bottom line concening chung

Clinical Sociopathic *NARCISSISM*"
Having 5 of these 9 "qualifies" a person as a narcissist...
How many of these fit him to a "T"?


1. Feels grandiose and self-importance (e.g., exaggerates
achievements and talents to the point of lying, demands to be
recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
2. Is obsessed with fantasies of unlimited success, fame, fearsome
power or omnipotence, unequalled brilliance (the cerebral
narcissist),
bodily beauty or sexual performance (the somatic narcissist), or
ideal, everlasting, all-conquering love or passion
3. Firmly convinced that he or she is unique and, being special,
can only be understood by, should only be treated by, or associate
with, other special or unique, or high-status people (or
institutions)
4. Requires excessive admiration, adulation, attention and
affirmation - or, failing that, wishes to be feared and to be
notorious (narcissistic supply).
5. Feels entitled. Expects unreasonable or special and favourable
priority treatment. Demands automatic and full compliance with his or
her expectations
6. Is "interpersonally exploitative", i.e., uses others to achieve
his or her own ends
7. Devoid of empathy. Is unable or unwilling to identify with or
acknowledge the feelings and needs of others
8. Constantly envious of others or believes that they feel the same
about him or her
9. Arrogant, haughty behaviours or attitudes coupled with rage when
frustrated, contradicted, or confronted

Jason

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Nov 17, 2009, 3:40:08 PM11/17/09
to
In article <n3j4g51jmuvjkeeu1...@4ax.com>,
don...@charter.net wrote:

I am NOT a doctor but both of the authors of the book are cardiologists.
This is an exact quote from the book related to aspirin:

"We [Dr. Roberts and Dr. Sinatra] don't recommend aspirin therapy to
healthy people for primary CVD prevention. The reason: aspirin may seem
harmless, but it's one the leading causes of gastrointesinal bleeding. We
prefer a variety of supplements to keep the bood at a healthy viscosity
without eroding the digestive tract...."

I trust the words of Dr. Roberts and Dr. Sinatra over your words since I
know nothing about your medical training. However, I do know a great deal
of info. about Dr. Roberts and Dr Sinatra's medical training.


Don Kirkman

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Nov 18, 2009, 2:02:01 AM11/18/09
to
It seems to me I heard somewhere that Jason wrote in article
<Jason-17110...@66.53.222.127>:

We started with this same statement, and you've added nothing
meaningful since. The fact is most cardiac patients do NOT develop
gastrointestinal bleeding from aspiring therapy, and of course those
who do should be taken off aspirin immediately.

>I trust the words of Dr. Roberts and Dr. Sinatra over your words since I
>know nothing about your medical training. However, I do know a great deal
>of info. about Dr. Roberts and Dr Sinatra's medical training.

Then you know that much of Sinatra's recent work has a "new age"
tinge. Such as:

Sugar Shock!: How Sweets and Simple Carbs Can Derail Your Life-- and
How You Can Get Back on Track

The Fast Food Diet

Spa Medicine: Your Gateway to the Ageless Zone

Lower Your Blood Pressure in Eight Weeks: A Revolutionary Program for
a Longer, Healthier Life

Heart Sense for Women: Your Plan for Natural Prevention and Treatment

Heartbreak & Heart Disease: A Mind/Body Prescription for Healing the
Heart

Optimum Health: A Natural Lifesaving Prescription for your Body and
Mind

--
Don Kirkman
don...@charter.net

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

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Nov 18, 2009, 4:37:44 AM11/18/09
to
Bottom line concerning you, Ken:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/e444a7f27fc8ae79?

Truth is reality ...

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/459c9c0ed3b24ca2?

... despite your efforts:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3160f9fd903ab7c2?

There is pure joy in being used by GOD to change hearts:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/8824c8a5b7c7518c?

May GOD give you, Ken, a new heart and a new spirit (Ezekiel 11:19-20


and 36:26) so that you would be born again of water and Spirit (John
3:3 and 3:5) so that you would come to trust the truth, Who is Jesus:

http://T3WiJ.com

Amen.

Be hungrier, which truly is healthier especially for diabetics and

Ken

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Nov 18, 2009, 11:58:30 AM11/18/09
to

MU

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Nov 18, 2009, 3:10:47 PM11/18/09
to

Jason, you're arguing with the Kirkman Troll, a fool who has spent over
a decade claiming physician level knowledge and expertise including
being much brighter and wiser a cardiologist than the resident Dr.
Chung.

Suggestion: Ignore The Troll.

Jason

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Nov 18, 2009, 6:26:55 PM11/18/09
to
In article <go57g5d2np7is8e4n...@4ax.com>,
don...@charter.net wrote:

Mr. Kirkman,
If you want to take aspirin therapy for the rest of your life--please feel
free to do so. I hope that you do not develop ulcers in your stomach or
intestines as a direct result of aspirin therapy. Dr. Roberts and Dr.
Sinatra are excellent doctors that know much MORE about cardiology than
you know or that I know.
Jason


Jason

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Nov 18, 2009, 6:27:35 PM11/18/09
to
In article <he1kc7$e6u$1...@news.eternal-september.org>, MU
<efacs...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks for the information
Jason


Don Kirkman

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Nov 18, 2009, 7:38:25 PM11/18/09
to
It seems to me I heard somewhere that Jason wrote in article
<Jason-18110...@67-150-121-70.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>:

>> The Fast Food Diet

I shall do so, with or without your approval. My cardiologists have
all strongly recommended it, and at full strength at that.

> I hope that you do not develop ulcers in your stomach or
>intestines as a direct result of aspirin therapy.

Since I haven't yet over the past eleven years, I think the risk is
slight.

> Dr. Roberts and Dr.
>Sinatra are excellent doctors that know much MORE about cardiology than
>you know or that I know.

And you know they are "excellent" how? The list of books Dr. Sinatra
has published strongly suggests he is out of the medical mainstream.
Dr. Sinatra's medical grounding appears to be somewhat inferior to Dr.
Chung's and his advice as inferred from his book titles is scarcely
more scientific than the Two Pound Diet [Approach].

BTW, trolls do not discuss facts and evidence; many of them do nothing
to advance discussion or knowledge, seeming to exist primarily to
disrupt discussion.
--
Don Kirkman
don...@charter.net

MU

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Nov 18, 2009, 7:46:44 PM11/18/09
to
On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 15:26:55 -0800, Jason wrote:

> Dr. Roberts and Dr.
> Sinatra are excellent doctors that know much MORE about cardiology than
> you know or that I know.

Don't expect Troll Kirkman to agree and since he has claimed to have me
killfiled for years now, expect that he won't answer to this post
either. Guarantee he reads them :)

You have stated the obvious, the only question remains are these two
physicians honest with themselves and in their advice. Many
cardiologists have written books and stated opinions that have over time
become total BS. Robert Atkins comes to mind.

Jason

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Nov 19, 2009, 1:38:56 AM11/19/09
to
In article <ur39g5l4evmcdb59q...@4ax.com>,
don...@charter.net wrote:

What is your medical background? Do you think that you know more about the
field of cardiology than Dr. Sinatra (a cardiologist)?


Jason

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Nov 19, 2009, 1:49:02 AM11/19/09
to
In article <he24hk$vh7$1...@news.eternal-september.org>, MU
<efacs...@gmail.com> wrote:

Time will tell. Both of the cardiologists that wrote the book have been
practicing medicine for many years and are (as of now) standing by their
advice. Only God knows if they will be standing by their advice a dozen
years from now.


MU

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Nov 19, 2009, 12:54:39 PM11/19/09
to

I agree and I haven't read the books, I'm not familiar with their work,
maybe Andrew is and can comment. I do know that we had Atkins figured
out in the mid 90s when we first got together on the 2PD and thoroughly
trashed that clown, his book and ultimately his underlying reasons for
propagating his ridiculous diet. The result of that is that verbal
whipping is partially the reason that the (alt.diet.)lo-carb Usenet
groups have diminished to nothingness.

The problem with publishing is in the publishing process, Publishers
want to make money and that means you have to have fertile material that
can be reproduced or recompiled in new books. They rarely publish for
the common good and take a financial bath in the process.

Hence, I take a jaundiced view of the Atkins, Ornish and others
especially when I find that a much simpler, consumption by volume based
approach to losing and maintaining proper body weight works.

But hey, being simple, accepting hunger and espousing an eating approach
based on what your food weighs isn't going to bring publishing $$$ to
anyone including MU or Chung. People think complex = success and are
built into the "diet" mode these days.

MoSn

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Nov 19, 2009, 5:38:53 PM11/19/09
to
On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 18:46:44 -0600, MU wrote
(in article <he24hk$vh7$1...@news.eternal-september.org>):


> Many cardiologists have written books and stated opinions that have over time
> become total BS. Robert Atkins comes to mind.

Yes, and certainly Chung falls into that group along with Atkins

MoSn

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Nov 19, 2009, 5:45:10 PM11/19/09
to
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 11:54:39 -0600, MU wrote
(in article <he40ov$ml$1...@news.eternal-september.org>):

> But hey, being simple, accepting hunger and espousing an eating approach
> based on what your food weighs isn't going to bring publishing $$$ to
> anyone including MU or Chung. People think complex = success and are
> built into the "diet" mode these days.

Atkins Diet is pretty simple too .... so Atkins and Chung both have simple
diets along with both being BS. Except, there are many sites from many
sources about the Atkin's diet and except for a few groups in the usenet and
Chung's own web site, there is little There are discussions about the
Atlkin's Diet on medical sites and publication .... but none about Chung's
diet

Jason

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Nov 20, 2009, 1:00:41 AM11/20/09
to
In article <he40ov$ml$1...@news.eternal-september.org>, MU
<efacs...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have read REVERSE HEART DISEASE NOW by Stephen T. Sinatra, M.D. and
James C. Roberts, M.D. Both of the cardiologists that wrote the book are
very different than Atkins. They practice regular medicine but also make
use of supplements to treat their patients. That means they open
themselves up to criticism from other doctors and from anyone that
believes doctors should only treat people with medications. I suggest that
you read the book since you appear to have an open mind about this
subject.
jason


MU

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Nov 20, 2009, 9:15:55 AM11/20/09
to
On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 22:00:41 -0800, Jason wrote:

> I have read REVERSE HEART DISEASE NOW by Stephen T. Sinatra, M.D. and
> James C. Roberts, M.D. Both of the cardiologists that wrote the book are
> very different than Atkins. They practice regular medicine but also make
> use of supplements to treat their patients. That means they open
> themselves up to criticism from other doctors and from anyone that
> believes doctors should only treat people with medications. I suggest that
> you read the book since you appear to have an open mind about this
> subject.
> jason

Will do, thx.

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

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Nov 21, 2009, 3:00:45 AM11/21/09
to

Robert Miles

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Nov 22, 2009, 10:28:40 AM11/22/09
to
"Don Kirkman" <don...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:ur39g5l4evmcdb59q...@4ax.com...

> It seems to me I heard somewhere that Jason wrote in article
> <Jason-18110...@67-150-121-70.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>:
>
>>In article <go57g5d2np7is8e4n...@4ax.com>,
>>don...@charter.net wrote:
>
>>> It seems to me I heard somewhere that Jason wrote in article
>>> <Jason-17110...@66.53.222.127>:
>
>>> >In article <n3j4g51jmuvjkeeu1...@4ax.com>,
>>> >don...@charter.net wrote:
>
>>> >> It seems to me I heard somewhere that Jason wrote in article
>>> >> <Jason-16110...@67-150-121-86.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>:
>
>>> >> >In article <60u1g51r1mccohg4h...@4ax.com>,
>>> >> >don...@charter.net wrote:
>
>>> >> >> It seems to me I heard somewhere that Jason wrote in article
>>> >> >> <Jason-15110...@67-150-123-48.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>:
[snip]

>
> And you know they are "excellent" how? The list of books Dr. Sinatra
> has published strongly suggests he is out of the medical mainstream.
> Dr. Sinatra's medical grounding appears to be somewhat inferior to Dr.
> Chung's and his advice as inferred from his book titles is scarcely
> more scientific than the Two Pound Diet [Approach].
>
> BTW, trolls do not discuss facts and evidence; many of them do nothing
> to advance discussion or knowledge, seeming to exist primarily to
> disrupt discussion.
> --
> Don Kirkman
> don...@charter.net

So you aren't aware yet that Chung is considered a troll in the diabetes
newsgroups, and there's little sign that he's had any patients after he was
fired from his first medical job in less than three months?

Robert Miles


MU

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Nov 22, 2009, 12:53:32 PM11/22/09
to

lol

Hey, Robbie, since I *am* one of Chung's patients, I guess that makes
you out a big fat LIAR.

MoSn

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Nov 22, 2009, 11:36:51 PM11/22/09
to
On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 11:53:32 -0600, MU wrote
(in article <hebtqt$1s3$1...@news.eternal-september.org>):

> Hey, Robbie, since I *am* one of Chung's patients, I guess that makes
> you out a big fat LIAR.

Doctors should not treat themselves IF the above statement is true.

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD

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Nov 24, 2009, 4:31:54 AM11/24/09
to
Don Kirkman wrote in part:

>
> Dr. Sinatra's medical grounding appears to be somewhat inferior to Dr.
> Chung's and his advice as inferred from his book titles is scarcely
> more scientific than the Two Pound Diet [Approach].

The 2PD-OMER Approach simply works as evident by the fact that its US
$2,000,000.00 guarantee remains in force:

http://WDJW.net/Guarantee

Moreover, the underpinnings of the 2PD-OMER Approach is secured by an
understanding of the first law of thermodynamics so that no true
scientist is able to truthfully claim that the Approach lacks
scientific validity.

Would continue to gently suggest that you, Don, stop lying post-haste
before you start believing the lies and suffer a break from reality:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/ebf80fd52b13b1ca?

There is pure joy in being used by GOD to change hearts:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/8824c8a5b7c7518c?

May GOD give you, Don, a new heart and a new spirit (Ezekiel 11:19-20

MU

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Nov 24, 2009, 4:33:40 PM11/24/09
to
On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 01:31:54 -0800 (PST), Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:

> Moreover, the underpinnings of the 2PD-OMER Approach is secured by an
> understanding of the first law of thermodynamics so that no true
> scientist is able to truthfully claim that the Approach lacks
> scientific validity.

Yep, /any/ weight loss regimen has to pass this test, validity, however,
is based on sustainability.

Atkins, Ornish and every other commercial, book or pamphlet based
dieting plan fail the validity/sustainability test with reversions as
high as 98%.

MoSn

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Nov 24, 2009, 5:16:33 PM11/24/09