transfer user data to a new phone without root

[Lu Wei]

I am switching to a new phone, both Android. Again, I am facing the
problem that my user data may get lost many. No easy migration is a
design flaw of Android I thought, though now many apps exist that at
least phone book, message and album could be transferred. But there
seems no general way to migrate other apps. Copying entire /sdcard does
not work generally; I even tried "adb backup", got success for one app,
but not for another. I heard about something like Titanium backup, but
it needs root, which is not an feasible option.

I wonder, since apps are not granted root privilege to run (I see from
"adb shell" that they run as a user name like u0_a228, u0_a229) , why
root privilege should be needed to backup their data? Shouldn't a GUI
user (don't know the proper name) or shell user has a higher privilege
over those apps users, and has full access to their data to backup and
transfer them?

--
Regards,
Lu Wei
IM: xmpp:luwe...@riotcat.org
PGP: 0xA12FEF7592CCE1EA

[John McGaw]

On 7/29/2019 8:32 PM, KenW wrote:

> I have used Google twice and haven't lost anything.Built into Android
> !
>

Same here. The only time I had problems was when the source phone's Wi-Fi
chip crapped out and more extreme measures (ADB and cabled) were called for.

[Lu Wei]

On 2019-7-30 8:32, KenW wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Jul 2019 08:13:23 +0800, Lu Wei <luwe...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>

> I have used Google twice and haven't lost anything.Built into Android
> !
>

Google backup is not an option in China.
If google backup works, does it mean google has root privilege of your
phone? If google backup does not use root privilege, other backup
methods should exist.

[The Real Bev]

In the two transfers I've done I lost all personalization --
username/passwords, gps saved places, program configuration... all the
stuff that takes days to recover. Just downloading the apps you had
(and discarding the ones you want on the tablet but not the phone) is
easy and more or less mechanical. Having to re-personalize 50 or more
apps is the reason I haven't updated from Android 7 to Android 8 and
I'm really getting sick of being nagged about it every hour or so and am
in deadly fear that I will someday clumsily tap GO FOR IT rather than
NOT NOW.

--
Cheers, Bev
Save the whales for dessert

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Tue, 30 Jul 2019 09:23:33 +0800, Lu Wei wrote:

> Google backup is not an option in China.
> If google backup works, does it mean google has root privilege of your
> phone? If google backup does not use root privilege, other backup
> methods should exist.

I used to factory reset my phone about once a month - now less so as I
don't experiment as much - but still - it's not a big deal.

Anyone who thinks backing up & restoring a phone is a big deal is someone
who is technically not very competent.

Nothing wrong with that - but if they can't even figure out how to back up
a phone and restore it - they're gonna have zillions of problems in their
lives, since it's about as easy as things get.

Same thing happens, IMHO, on Windows, where people "think" they need a dd
copy (bit for bit) of everything - which is just insane, IMHO.

It's so simple to back up and restore that it's not even worth explaining,
seems to me. It's that simple.

[Frank Slootweg]

Exactly! There is no universal backup/restore mechanism, which backs
up and restores the *data* and *settings* of *non*-Google apps. That's
why there are zillions of backup apps, which all only solve *part* of
the problem.

'Google', whatever KenW meant by that, is *not* going to save your
bacon.

People who say that they had no problems, transfering all their stuff
to another phone, only use Google apps or/and use apps which
automatically backup their data/settings to a 'cloud' (for example
Google Drive) or/and use apps which do not have any/much data/settings
which have to be moved.

So to KenW and John McGaw: Which *specific* (i.e. name and Google Play
URL) *non*-Google apps were moved without any loss of data or/and
settings?

[Frank Slootweg]

Lu Wei <luwe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am switching to a new phone, both Android. Again, I am facing the
> problem that my user data may get lost many. No easy migration is a
> design flaw of Android I thought, though now many apps exist that at
> least phone book, message and album could be transferred. But there
> seems no general way to migrate other apps. Copying entire /sdcard does
> not work generally; I even tried "adb backup", got success for one app,
> but not for another. I heard about something like Titanium backup, but
> it needs root, which is not an feasible option.

Yes, Android backup/restore is effectively non-existant/broken.

What brand(s) are the phones?

If the same brand, then look on the manufacturer's website for a
brand-specific tool, often an app on the Android device and a companion
program on the (Windows/Mac/Linux) computer. Examples: HiSuite (Huawei)
and Kies 3 / Smart Switch (Samsung).

If the brands are different, but the target/new phone is Samsung, then
try Samsung's Smart Switch software.

> I wonder, since apps are not granted root privilege to run (I see from
> "adb shell" that they run as a user name like u0_a228, u0_a229) , why
> root privilege should be needed to backup their data? Shouldn't a GUI
> user (don't know the proper name) or shell user has a higher privilege
> over those apps users, and has full access to their data to backup and
> transfer them?

Root/non-root isn't the issue. Google just can't be bothered to write/
supply real backup/restore software and neither can the device
manufacturers. Why would they bother? There are only billions and
billions of devices! :-(

[Andy Burns]

Frank Slootweg wrote:

> Android backup/restore is effectively non-existant/broken.

Not in my experience, from a Nexus1 to a Nexus4 I don't think much was
automatically migrated, but that was early days for android.

But from Nexus4 to Nexus5, to Nexus5X, to Pixel3 (and another Pixel3
after a screen fault on the first one) everything except the k9 email
settings have "just worked" on each upgrade, sometimes over WiFi,
othertimes over USB cable.

I gave my father the old 5X and migrated his stuff from an Alcatel
Pixi4, the only thing that didn't migrate was the history of SMS
messages, so I used "SMS Backup Restore" app to export those to a file
in his google drive and import it on the new phone.

So within brand and across brands, it seems pretty effective to me.

[Frank Slootweg]

Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Frank Slootweg wrote:
>
> > Android backup/restore is effectively non-existant/broken.
>
> Not in my experience, from a Nexus1 to a Nexus4 I don't think much was
> automatically migrated, but that was early days for android.
>
> But from Nexus4 to Nexus5, to Nexus5X, to Pixel3 (and another Pixel3
> after a screen fault on the first one) everything except the k9 email
> settings have "just worked" on each upgrade, sometimes over WiFi,
> othertimes over USB cable.

This, k9, is an example of the *non*-Google apps I am talking about
(in my other response).

There *is no* standard path/filename(s) for the settings of an app, so
Google/Android *cannot* take care of the settings of non-Google apps, so
the app *itself* has to take care of backup, restore and move. If the
app doesn't do that - and most don't - the user is stuffed and - as you
have found - has no other choice as to re-invent the wheel, i.e.
determine again which settings should be changed. For one app, that's
not too bad, for fifty, it's a nightmare.

As to app *data* of a non-Google app, Google/Android *cannot* take
care of that, because while it might know the path (folder(s)) of that
data, it cannot back it up in the 'cloud' (i.e. Google Drive), because
it might take too much storage/bandwidth. For example many navigation
apps have offline apps of many, many GB in size, which do not fit in a
default Google Drive and take way too much bandwidth.

I assume in your case the transfer process didn't take care of the
email messages in k9's mail store (proving 'my' point).

Another example of as non-Google app whose user data which is *not*
backed up by Google/Android is WhatsApp. (WhatsApp has its own
backup/restore/move mechanism, which proves 'my' point.)

> I gave my father the old 5X and migrated his stuff from an Alcatel
> Pixi4, the only thing that didn't migrate was the history of SMS
> messages, so I used "SMS Backup Restore" app to export those to a file
> in his google drive and import it on the new phone.

If the source and destination SMS apps were the stock Google/Android
apps, things are even worse than I described.

> So within brand and across brands, it seems pretty effective to me.

Only within the - very limited - constraints I mentioned (only use

Google apps or/and use apps which automatically backup their
data/settings to a 'cloud' (for example Google Drive) or/and use apps

which do not have any/much data/settings which have to be moved).

[John McGaw]

I've only migrated from Google device to Google device ... and have had no
notable problems starting with a Nexus S way back in the stone age. Maybe
it is just that I trust "the real thing" and refuse to buy into the various
customized versions of the OS that has saved me.

Same thing for apps -- my needs are simple and I don't go looking for
programs outside the store and only ever install a very small number of
them and never even one paid version. My current phone, a Pixel 3, has only
64gB storage and it is not even half full even though I have it loaded with
scores of audio books; the previous phone had only 32gB and even that was
never full. Some apps in the store are proving to be problematic in some
markets but I'm sure that the percentage of "bad" stuff coming from
off-brand APK downloads is _way_ higher than those in the store. Being
cautious can have big rewards in the long term.

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Tue, 30 Jul 2019 13:15:11 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

> So within brand and across brands, it seems pretty effective to me.

I agree with Andy Burns that backup on Android is pretty effective.

I used to factory reset about monthly - but lately - I haven't been
experimenting with the phone all that much (e.g., turning off all Google
Framework Services, testing out apps, etc.) - so it's every few months
lately.

Still - it's pretty easy - if you're intelligent about it, IMHO.

I suspect those who have problems would _always_ have problems (with almost
anything), since you have to be a bit intelligent about going about it.

I also suspect most of those who complain are inveterate "cloud users", who
follow MARKETING paths - where they don't actually turn their brain on and
expect some MARKETNIG organization to provide a "cloud backup" that
restores the phone for them the way it was.

It's sort of like expecting the new house to be exactly the same as the
old, like expecting the new wife to be exactly the same as the old, like
expecting the new car to be exactly the same as the old, etc.

In summary, those who complain, I suspect are...
o Not all that intelligent when going about the simple task, and,
o Hence, they expect a single-push-button cloud-based MARKETING solution.

I also suspect the complainers are so highly disorganized that they likely
can't even find their own files, let alone files that tag along with an
app, without running a search engine on their own file storage system.

In short, if you are intelligent, backing up & restoring is simple.
o All without putting a single bit of your private data on the net

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Tue, 30 Jul 2019 10:40:00 -0400, John McGaw wrote:

> I've only migrated from Google device to Google device ... and have had no
> notable problems starting with a Nexus S way back in the stone age. Maybe
> it is just that I trust "the real thing" and refuse to buy into the various
> customized versions of the OS that has saved me.

I wipe & restore relatively frequently - where I posit that if you
intelligently choose your apps - restoration is easy.

In fact, I suspect those who are complaining the most about restore on
Android, are the ones who likely are choosing their apps least
intelligently, IMHO.

For example, I have selected Nova free as the best launcher for almost
everything - including homescreen restoral.

Nova free launcher is that it restores the EXACT icon locations:
<https://i.postimg.cc/X7jYKSTW/backup01.jpg>

Nova free does so even for apps that are not _yet_ reinstalled!

For me, that's important since my homescreen is highly organized.
<https://i.postimg.cc/rs3t4VV6/homescreen00.jpg>

And, I have over 400 installed apps at any given time point:
<https://i.postimg.cc/XvX0XV9D/nova01.jpg>

What Nova free does is leaves a placeholder for any app that you don't
reinstall from your automatically saved backup folder on your external sd
card.

Compare that modern functionality to the utterly primitive iOS homescreen!
<https://i.postimg.cc/qRKY9nz3/homescreen04.jpg>

In short, if you select apps wisely, restore is fantastically powerful.
o I think the ones complaining are the ones who can't figure this out.

[Arlen G. Holder]

On 30 Jul 2019 14:28:52 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> I assume in your case the transfer process didn't take care of the
> email messages in k9's mail store (proving 'my' point).

Hi Frank,

I use K-9 mail because it doesn't use Google Framework Services.
o What problems do you have with restoring K-9 after a factory wipe?
<https://i.postimg.cc/X7jYKSTW/backup01.jpg>

In my case, my email is stored on Google's IMAP server (although I'm
transititioning _away_ from all Google products, including Gmail)
o Let's document the best known current free REPLACEMENTS for Google "mail" account - so all benefit from our efforts
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/YUdwh4QgoRQ/QAMpsDO8AQAJ>

I should note that I don't use email all that often on a phone, simply
because the typing is abymysmal - but still - what problems are you having
restoring your K-9 mail environment to what it was before you periodically
factory wiped the phone?

Why don't I have the problems that you have, Frank?

[Arlen G. Holder]

On 30 Jul 2019 12:04:57 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> Yes, Android backup/restore is effectively non-existant/broken.

Hi Frank Slootweg,

What's wrong with the method I use to restore my phone periodically?
o I frequently wipe & restore over 400 apps on my phone, with data
<https://i.postimg.cc/XvX0XV9D/nova01.jpg>

I used to factory reset about monthly - but lately - I haven't been

experimenting with the phone all that much - so it's every few months.

It's pretty easy - if you're intelligent about it, IMHO.

What part about the restore do you think is difficult for you?

[Andy Burns]

Frank Slootweg wrote:

> There*is no* standard path/filename(s) for the settings of an app, so
> Google/Android*cannot* take care of the settings of non-Google apps, so
> the app*itself* has to take care of backup, restore and move.

AIUI, there are standard mechanisms 3rd party apps can use to store
data/settings in the google account, some chose to, others choose not to
(k9 being one but it does allow export/import to a single settings file)

[Frank Slootweg]

Arlen G. Holder <arling...@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 30 Jul 2019 14:28:52 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>
> > I assume in your case the transfer process didn't take care of the
> > email messages in k9's mail store (proving 'my' point).
>
> Hi Frank,
>
> I use K-9 mail because it doesn't use Google Framework Services.
> o What problems do you have with restoring K-9 after a factory wipe?
> <https://i.postimg.cc/X7jYKSTW/backup01.jpg>

Read what I wrote, not what you think I wrote. Backing up and
restoring *apps* is trivial. What is not trivial at all, is backing up
and restoring the *data* and *settings* (especially the latter) of
*non*-Google apps.

Your screenshot just shows that you can restore the apps themselves.
Duh! Big deal!

> In my case, my email is stored on Google's IMAP server (although I'm
> transititioning _away_ from all Google products, including Gmail)

But after a restore, you will have lost all of K-9 Mail's *data* (i.e.
local copies of email, local folders, address book, etc., etc.) and its
*settings*.

[...]

[Frank Slootweg]

Exactly. For each and every non-Google app *you* (the user) will have
to determine *if* it uses those "standards mechanism". More often they
don't, for the reasons I gave. Next, *you* will have to figure out for
each of the remaining apps *if* they provide mechanism for
exporting/importing their data and settings. Next, *you* will have to
figure out for each of the remaining apps *if* their is any
documentation as to where (i.e. which folders/files) they store their
data and setting. Next, *you* will have to figure for each of the
remaining apps *if* you can figure out where they keep their data and
how you can save or document their settings.

Next, *you* will have to figure out backup/restore methodS (plural)
for all apps which do not fall in the first two categories.

Bottom line: If you have tens of non-Google apps, this is an enormous
amount of work. Which brings us back to my original statement:

[Arlen G. Holder]

On 30 Jul 2019 17:57:58 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> Read what I wrote, not what you think I wrote. Backing up and
> restoring *apps* is trivial. What is not trivial at all, is backing up
> and restoring the *data* and *settings* (especially the latter) of
> *non*-Google apps.

Hi Frank,

Please don't skirt the question Frank - because the question is apropos.

Read what I wrote - where I was very clear that K-9 mail is, currently set
to read/write to/from my Gmail account, where the email itself is,
currently, stored on Google's IMAP server.

All K-9 mail does is _access_ that IMAP server based on the K9 settings.
o HINT: I don't even _have_ a Google account on my phone!

Hence, the apropos question about K9 restoral remains unanswered...
o *Why, Frank, are you having K9 retoral problems - and I'm not?*

[Arlen G. Holder]

On 30 Jul 2019 17:57:59 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> Android backup/restore is effectively non-existant/broken.

Hi Frank Slootweg,

Why is it Frank, that you have all these problems restoring things
o And I don't?
<https://i.postimg.cc/zGNhK29Z/gsfindependent09.jpg>

I've tested most of the free mail user agents (aka clients) out there:
<https://i.postimg.cc/ncHS2T87/gsfindependent08.jpg>

I intelligently choose the best MUAs which are GSF Independent:
<https://i.postimg.cc/Hs96Ht3v/gsfindependent01.jpg>

And I put all the data I care about on the sd card by default:
<https://i.postimg.cc/vm9CkB06/gsfindependent10.jpg>

NOTE: You have to live with the restrictions in some programs.
<https://i.postimg.cc/8CrqB4Cz/gsfindependent13.jpg>

And, I wipe out my phone frequently - & yet - I have no problem restoring.
o And I don't even have a Google account on my phone, Frank!
<https://i.postimg.cc/y6cVtHhp/gsfindependent03.jpg>

Even my highly organized home screen is restored - exactly as before.
<https://i.postimg.cc/X7jYKSTW/backup01.jpg>

*Why can't you do what I can easily do Frank?*
o What's different between you and me, Frank?

[Frank Slootweg]

Arlen G. Holder <arling...@nospam.net> wrote:

As I told you many times in the past, you get at most two chances at
reading for comprehension. If you fail the first time, you might get
lucky and I might explain/ellaborate where/how/why your reading/
comprehension fails.

Based on your above response, you've blown your second chance. Better
luck next time!

P.S. Because I'm a hopeless softie, I'll give you a free Clue-by-Four
anyway: "based on the K9 settings".

P.S.2 Does it take effort to snip relevant context, proof, etc., or does
it come naturally? [1]

[1] This is one of them rethorical thingies.

[Percival P. Cassidy]

On 7/30/19 1:57 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> Android backup/restore is effectively non-existant/broken.

We used Android backup and restore when we replaced our Nexus 5X phones
by Moto X4 phones, and then again when we replaced those by Pixel 3a
phones. Only hiccup was that my wife lost some of her WhatsApp messages
the last time.

Perce

[Lu Wei]

On 2019-7-30 20:04, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Lu Wei <luwe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I am switching to a new phone, both Android. Again, I am facing
>> the problem that my user data may get lost many. No easy migration
>> is a design flaw of Android I thought, though now many apps exist
>> that at least phone book, message and album could be transferred.
>> But there seems no general way to migrate other apps. Copying
>> entire /sdcard does not work generally; I even tried "adb backup",
>> got success for one app, but not for another. I heard about
>> something like Titanium backup, but it needs root, which is not an
>> feasible option.
>
> Yes, Android backup/restore is effectively non-existant/broken.
>
> What brand(s) are the phones?
>
> If the same brand, then look on the manufacturer's website for a
> brand-specific tool, often an app on the Android device and a
> companion program on the (Windows/Mac/Linux) computer. Examples:
> HiSuite (Huawei) and Kies 3 / Smart Switch (Samsung).
>
> If the brands are different, but the target/new phone is Samsung,
> then try Samsung's Smart Switch software.
>

Not the same brand, from Xiaomi to Vivo. Xiaomi has a local backup feature, which I doubt may be the android/google's original backup, but apparently not readable by Vivo, which only accept restore from its own cloud.

Xiaomi and Vivo both have their "one-tap switching" app, which only works well with calls, messages, photos, and apks. The general app user data migration can not be guaranteed.

>> I wonder, since apps are not granted root privilege to run (I see
>> from "adb shell" that they run as a user name like u0_a228,
>> u0_a229) , why root privilege should be needed to backup their
>> data? Shouldn't a GUI user (don't know the proper name) or shell
>> user has a higher privilege over those apps users, and has full
>> access to their data to backup and transfer them?
>
> Root/non-root isn't the issue. Google just can't be bothered to
> write/ supply real backup/restore software and neither can the
> device manufacturers. Why would they bother? There are only billions
> and billions of devices! :-(
>

I've read your other posts under this thread, and searched web pages like
https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/28296/how-to-fully-backup-non-rooted-devices
It seems "adb backup"+ "copy /sdcard" is the furthest I can go now.

Yet adb backup is still a mystery to me. I checked a non-work app. Its AndroidManifest.xml in apk file has "allowBackup{Nul}" set, so I think it should allow adb backup. But I only got a 47 byte .ab file, which is extracted to nothing. So I doubt the app have multiple data places in the root-only space, but adb backup only reads one path.

To solve the annoyance of android backup, I think, maybe the user|permission system should be redesigned, as I said, let GUI or shell user has real control over apps data (I don't understand why it's not applied at first, since IIRC Linux always works this way and Android is derived from Linux). Or, make a backup protocol, and it should be an open standard for others to follow.

[Frank Slootweg]

So it looks that WhatsApp was the only non-Google app (which did not
use Google's backup/restore mechanism). Count yourself lucky that you
had only one such app, because there are zillions of apps in that
category. Most people will have several/many/tens of them.

[Frank Slootweg]

Yes, calls, messages, photos, and apks and Contacts, music, videos,
etc. are categories which can often be backed up, restored, moved.

Apparently that very limited functionality is enough for many/most
people. Otherwise I cannot explain why several/many people downplay or
even dismiss the problem (of backup/restore/move of the data/settings of
non-Google apps).

> >> I wonder, since apps are not granted root privilege to run (I see
> >> from "adb shell" that they run as a user name like u0_a228,
> >> u0_a229) , why root privilege should be needed to backup their
> >> data? Shouldn't a GUI user (don't know the proper name) or shell
> >> user has a higher privilege over those apps users, and has full
> >> access to their data to backup and transfer them?
> >
> > Root/non-root isn't the issue. Google just can't be bothered to
> > write/ supply real backup/restore software and neither can the
> > device manufacturers. Why would they bother? There are only billions
> > and billions of devices! :-(
>
> I've read your other posts under this thread, and searched web pages like
> https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/28296/how-to-fully-backup-non-rooted-devices
> It seems "adb backup"+ "copy /sdcard" is the furthest I can go now.
>
> Yet adb backup is still a mystery to me. I checked a non-work app. Its
> AndroidManifest.xml in apk file has "allowBackup{Nul}" set, so I think
> it should allow adb backup. But I only got a 47 byte .ab file, which
> is extracted to nothing. So I doubt the app have multiple data places
> in the root-only space, but adb backup only reads one path.

I cannot comment on this, because I do not use adb for backup (I have
used adb for other purposes).

My backup scheme is mostly to safeguard against potential dataloss,
i.e. not for full system restore, nor for moving to another device.

My backup scheme consists of two parts:

- Device-dependent backup with the manufacturer-specific Android/Windows
combos, i.e. Kies 3 / Smart Switch (Samsung) and HiSuite (Huawei).

- File level backup of all folders/files - in both Internal Storage and
on the SD-card - which can be read with normal non-root backup apps.
The backup app I use is
'SyncMe Wireless'
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bv.wifisync>
SyncMe Wireless can sync/backup to a Network Share, i.e. also to a
Network Share on a Windows system.
SyncMe Wireless does a sync, which effectively is a full (if the
destination is empty) or incremental (if the destination already
contains one or more backups) backup.
N.B. SyncMe Wireless is (was?) limited to SMB1 protocol, which might
need some special settings on your computer/Network Share.

> To solve the annoyance of android backup, I think, maybe the
> user|permission system should be redesigned, as I said, let GUI or
> shell user has real control over apps data (I don't understand why
> it's not applied at first, since IIRC Linux always works this way and
> Android is derived from Linux). Or, make a backup protocol, and it
> should be an open standard for others to follow.

Yes, Google should have designed a proper backup system, but they
didn't and I don't think that's going to change. Google went out of
their way to fsck up several major aspects of Android. Non-backup/
restore is just one of them.

BTW, *if* you think (per-app) root-access might solve your problem,
have a look at 'KingRoot' (not to be confused with 'Kingo Root').
KingRoot offers per-app root-access, i.e. you only give root-access to
the apps that need it (i.e. Titanium Backup). I withhold a pointer (URL)
to KingRoot, because it's trivial to find and I don't want newbies to
get themselves into trouble by following one of my pointers.

Good luck.

[Percival P. Cassidy]

We both have many non-Google apps. My WhatsApp messages all transferred
just fine, and so did all our other apps' settings and histories.

Perce

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Wed, 31 Jul 2019 14:54:47 -0400, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:

> We both have many non-Google apps. My WhatsApp messages all transferred
> just fine, and so did all our other apps' settings and histories.

I agree with you (and with the other intelligent people) that backup and
restore is easy on Android.

In my case, I store nothing on the cloud that I don't have to, and, to that
point, I don't even have a Google account on my phone, and my restores
after a factory wipe are simple.

Fancy that.
o Even K9 mail works just fine for me (but not for Frank Slootweg).

What's different?

It seems people like Frank who can't handle complexity pine for the
admittedly brain-dead iOS model that Apple MARKETING fosters more so than a
well-thought out backup/restore model which actually backs up the _real_
APKs (i.e., the actual version) and where data is stored on the user's own
equipment (e.g., in an external storage slot), instead of on the cloud for
the entire world to hack into.

See also:
o Do people of reasonable technical ability store their private data on the Internet (if so, for what gain?)
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/mBIZ-8jGdmk/aLDJkSJQAAAJ>

[Arlen G. Holder]

On 30 Jul 2019 19:54:42 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> and I might explain/ellaborate where/how/why your reading/
> comprehension fails.

Hi Frank,

Face it - you simply made them up.

[nospam]

In article <qhspnq$j4t$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen G. Holder

<arling...@nospam.net> wrote:

> It seems people like Frank who can't handle complexity pine for the
> admittedly brain-dead iOS model that Apple MARKETING fosters more so than a
> well-thought out backup/restore model which actually backs up the _real_
> APKs (i.e., the actual version) and where data is stored on the user's own
> equipment (e.g., in an external storage slot),

ios devices support local backups on the user's computer, including
user data, optionally encrypted, making it even more secure.

local backups can also be configured to occur automatically occur any
time the device is connected to mains power to charge, which means
nightly backups, if not more often, without the user doing anything
more than connecting the cable.

> instead of on the cloud for
> the entire world to hack into.

you don't use a passcode on your phone, so there's no need to hack
anything.

[The Real Bev]

Most of my apps are non-google. I'd like to get rid of a number of
google apps, but the system won't let me.

Just restoring the personalization of my OSMand GPS program takes hours
-- addresses, colors, options, whatever... I finally just stopped using
it because the latest update made the UI DIFFERENT and I'm tired of
having to adjust -- besides, it's a real battery hog.

Some people never look at the options/settings etc., never change
anything and go happily on about their business. Those are NOT the
people who have problems -- they use everything straight out of the box.
They probably follow recipes with no deviation. I regard these people
as deficient in some important way.

--
Cheers, Bev
"If you watch TV news, you know less about the world than
if you just drank gin straight from the bottle."
- Garrison Keillor

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Wed, 31 Jul 2019 15:35:44 -0400, nospam wrote:

> ios devices support local backups on the user's computer, including
> user data, optionally encrypted, making it even more secure.

Hi nospam,
Your credibility is worthless since you're no more accurate than the
results of a simple coin toss - and it's clear you _know_ that you're
intentionally being misleading by the clever wording of your response.

For example, you know you can't back up to anywhere (local or otherwise),
an IPA file (APK in Android terminology) of the currently installed version
of the application, when - commonly - that current application version is
NO LONGER available on the iOS (or Google for an APK) app store.

HINT:
o Backing up such installed apps is trivial on Android & impossible on iOS.

While you and the other apologists constantly claim imaginary functionality
for iOS, it's a fact that iOS can't even do something that Android does
which is as simple as backing up all the already installed apps (even
system apps) - their exact version - even when - as is commonly the case -
that app or that version is no longer even available on the app store.

While you apologists love to play silly games, nospam, even you are aware
that, on iOS, you can't back up the already installed app after the fact,
particularly if that already installed app is a system app or if that
already installed app version is no longer available on the app store.

The sad fact is that iOS backup is primitive compared to Android backup for
already installed apps, nospam, where what we're talking about is that
exact version _after_ the app has been installed (which is generally the
case for many people doing backups).

In addition, that app, if it's a free app, can be used on almost any
Android device (OS versions and hardware being compatible) such that the
Android APKs that you've backed up stand a very high chance of working on
_any_ Android phone on the planet - where - as you're well aware nospam -
the iOS IPA's don't have anywhere near that modern portable functionality
(i.e., freeware IPAs on iOS are artificially locked to an AppleID or family
plan - whereas freeware APKs can be used anywhere by anyone at any time).

As for encryption, there's absolutely nothing stopping the user from saving
their installed app APKs into a Truecrypt-style encrypted container - but
these are just apps - so there wouldn't be any need to do so for the app
APKs.

Since the app data is generally stored on the external sd card, that app
data is effectively already backed up - where you simply remove the sd card
before factory wiping - and - if desired - you can easily copy that sd card
to any external storage you like - even encrypted storage - if that's
important for that particular app data.

> local backups can also be configured to occur automatically occur any
> time the device is connected to mains power to charge, which means
> nightly backups, if not more often, without the user doing anything
> more than connecting the cable.

For APKs, nospam, the Android setup is such that it's trivial that the
backup of the APK to the SD card occurs automatically the INSTANT the app
is installed - and, even better, a subsequent backup of each subsequently
installed version is also instantly backed up automatically to the SD card.

Such modern backup functionality is _impossible_ on the primitive iOS platform.

>
>> instead of on the cloud for
>> the entire world to hack into.
>
> you don't use a passcode on your phone, so there's no need to hack
> anything.

You fail to comprehend that there are different threat models, where
storing your private data on the cloud is a completely different threat
model than leaving your phone lying on the kitchen table.

[Lu Wei]

On 2019-8-1 2:02, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Apparently that very limited functionality is enough for many/most
> people. Otherwise I cannot explain why several/many people downplay or
> even dismiss the problem (of backup/restore/move of the data/settings of
> non-Google apps).
>

/Sigh, I sometimes envy those people who can just throw history away.
But even I could, the numerous settings are tiresome to restore.
> ...

> - File level backup of all folders/files - in both Internal Storage and
> on the SD-card - which can be read with normal non-root backup apps.
> The backup app I use is
> 'SyncMe Wireless'
> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bv.wifisync>
> SyncMe Wireless can sync/backup to a Network Share, i.e. also to a
> Network Share on a Windows system.
> SyncMe Wireless does a sync, which effectively is a full (if the
> destination is empty) or incremental (if the destination already
> contains one or more backups) backup.
> N.B. SyncMe Wireless is (was?) limited to SMB1 protocol, which might
> need some special settings on your computer/Network Share.
>
>> To solve the annoyance of android backup, I think, maybe the
>> user|permission system should be redesigned, as I said, let GUI or
>> shell user has real control over apps data (I don't understand why
>> it's not applied at first, since IIRC Linux always works this way and
>> Android is derived from Linux). Or, make a backup protocol, and it
>> should be an open standard for others to follow.
>
> Yes, Google should have designed a proper backup system, but they
> didn't and I don't think that's going to change. Google went out of
> their way to fsck up several major aspects of Android. Non-backup/
> restore is just one of them.
>

Maybe they just can't wait to push the product out to compete with iOS,
and let users be their little mouse.

> BTW, *if* you think (per-app) root-access might solve your problem,
> have a look at 'KingRoot' (not to be confused with 'Kingo Root').
> KingRoot offers per-app root-access, i.e. you only give root-access to
> the apps that need it (i.e. Titanium Backup). I withhold a pointer (URL)
> to KingRoot, because it's trivial to find and I don't want newbies to
> get themselves into trouble by following one of my pointers.
>
> Good luck.
>

Thanks for the recommendation. Root is not an option for me, because I
read root process of Xiaome need to unlock BL and flash a new rom, which
will destroy all data; and the Vivo I have has no root method yet. I
searched about KingRoot, got an impression that it's a hack tool, some
results say it is not so "clean" as SuperSU. I don't think they can get
around BL, and I am yet not too desperate to risk it, so I'd rather put
it off.

[nospam]

In article <qhu2h1$nsj$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen G. Holder

<arling...@nospam.net> wrote:

> For example, you know you can't back up to anywhere (local or otherwise),
> an IPA file (APK in Android terminology) of the currently installed version
> of the application, when - commonly - that current application version is
> NO LONGER available on the iOS (or Google for an APK) app store.

false. ios apps can be archived on a mac or windows pc, and you've been
told this many times before.

> The sad fact is that iOS backup is primitive compared to Android backup for
> already installed apps, nospam, where what we're talking about is that
> exact version _after_ the app has been installed (which is generally the
> case for many people doing backups).

false. ios backup is built into ios itself, with no additional apps
required, plus it backs up everything.

as i said, connect the device to mains power and a local backup will
automatically occur. a backup can also be manually invoked at any time.

that means that ios devices can be easily backed up every night, when
people normally charge their device.

> As for encryption, there's absolutely nothing stopping the user from saving
> their installed app APKs into a Truecrypt-style encrypted container - but
> these are just apps - so there wouldn't be any need to do so for the app
> APKs.

they could, but that's a lot of work that's not necessary.

simply tick a checkbox and the automatic backup is encrypted, in
particular, user data.

> Since the app data is generally stored on the external sd card, that app
> data is effectively already backed up - where you simply remove the sd card
> before factory wiping - and - if desired - you can easily copy that sd card
> to any external storage you like - even encrypted storage - if that's
> important for that particular app data.

not all android phones have an sd card slot, and an sd card is not
ideal for backups anyway.

> > local backups can also be configured to occur automatically occur any
> > time the device is connected to mains power to charge, which means
> > nightly backups, if not more often, without the user doing anything
> > more than connecting the cable.
>
> For APKs, nospam, the Android setup is such that it's trivial that the
> backup of the APK to the SD card occurs automatically the INSTANT the app
> is installed - and, even better, a subsequent backup of each subsequently
> installed version is also instantly backed up automatically to the SD card.
>
> Such modern backup functionality is _impossible_ on the primitive iOS
> platform.

false. that is not an automatic process, and again, not all android
devices have sd card slots.

doing that is very easy on ios (and *is* an automatic process), just
not with sd cards.

plus, backing up apps is nowhere near as important as backing up user
data.

apps can be re-downloaded, but user data cannot, and in many cases,
user data can't be recreated, such as photos or voice memos.

> >
> >> instead of on the cloud for
> >> the entire world to hack into.
> >
> > you don't use a passcode on your phone, so there's no need to hack
> > anything.
>
> You fail to comprehend that there are different threat models, where
> storing your private data on the cloud is a completely different threat
> model than leaving your phone lying on the kitchen table.

you fail to comprehend that if your phone is lost or stolen, anyone can
read your data, and likely will, in particular, your password database,
photos, and much more.

[123456789]

The Real Bev wrote:

> the latest [app] update made the UI DIFFERENT and I'm

> tired of having to adjust -- besides, it's a real battery
> hog.

Turn off automatic updates and use the old app version. Many
of my app versions are years old and still work just fine
often sans ads.

I go one step further. I save the old app (apk file) before
trying the new. If I like the new I keep it, otherwise I go
back. My apk archives go back many years and you'd be
surprised how many still work just fine up to and including
Android 9. And some don't of course. Nothing ventured...

> Some people never look at the options/settings etc.,
> never change anything and go happily on about their
> business. Those are NOT the people who have problems --
> they use everything straight out of the box. They
> probably follow recipes with no deviation. I regard
> these people as deficient in some important way.

Try it. You'll no longer be one of the deficient people... ;)

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Thu, 01 Aug 2019 09:50:41 -0400, nospam wrote:

> false. ios apps can be archived on a mac or windows pc, and you've been
> told this many times before.

Hi nospam,

Like I said, your credibility is absolutely worthless nospam.
o What you say is no better in the end than a flip of the coin.

On this very topic, you got your head handed to you when you and Jolly
Roger both sent poor hapless users (was it Ant, or Wade?, Or maybe both?)
on wild-goose chases when they asked about how to back up their already
installed apps which were no longer available on the iTunes store.

Do I really need to dig up those sorry sordid silly games you play, nospam?

>
>> The sad fact is that iOS backup is primitive compared to Android backup for
>> already installed apps, nospam, where what we're talking about is that
>> exact version _after_ the app has been installed (which is generally the
>> case for many people doing backups).
>
> false. ios backup is built into ios itself, with no additional apps
> required, plus it backs up everything.

As I said nospam, your credibility is absolutely worthless
o We may as well flip a coin to determine if your answer is correct.

The fact is that on iOS you can't back up, after the fact, not only the
system apps and their specific version, but any already installed app and
their version - since it's highly unlikely that the version will be
available at the time of backup on the iOS App Store (we can dig up the
threads where David Empson handed you and Jolly Roger your heads, nospam).

On Android - it's trivial.
o Android backs up the exact version of already installed apps
(even system apps) even if those apps no longer exist on the net.

> false. that is not an automatic process, and again, not all android
> devices have sd card slots.
>
> doing that is very easy on ios (and *is* an automatic process), just
> not with sd cards.
>
> plus, backing up apps is nowhere near as important as backing up user
> data.
>
> apps can be re-downloaded, but user data cannot, and in many cases,
> user data can't be recreated, such as photos or voice memos.

Play your silly games nospam.
o You know EXACTLY what I said iOS can and cannot do.

iOS is utterly primitive in functionality compared to Android
o iOS can't even list your already installed apps to an editable file for
heaven's sake, without adding an entire computer & the iTunes abomination.

On Android, there are so many ways to do that it's not funny.
o On iOS, it's literally _impossible_ to do something that simple on the
device, all by its itty bitty self.

These are facts nospam.
o I don't speak your Apple MARKETING bullshit, nospam.

>> You fail to comprehend that there are different threat models, where
>> storing your private data on the cloud is a completely different threat
>> model than leaving your phone lying on the kitchen table.
>
> you fail to comprehend that if your phone is lost or stolen, anyone can
> read your data, and likely will, in particular, your password database,
> photos, and much more.

If my phone is lost or stolen...

How are they going to read my password database when it's stored only in an
encrypted format, nospam?

How are they gonna read my private texts which are stored behind an
app-specific PIN, nospam?

How are they gonna see my private files which are stored inside a
double-walled Truecrypt-style encrypted container, nospam?

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Thu, 1 Aug 2019 09:24:58 -0700, 123456789 wrote:

> Turn off automatic updates and use the old app version. Many
> of my app versions are years old and still work just fine
> often sans ads.

Hi 123456789,
This is good advise of yours to turn off automatic updates.

Since Usenet is meant to be a potluck where we share our combined advice
with everyone, another method I use is to automatically back up all
versions of an app.

That way, if you don't like the new version, you already have the previous
version (and all the previous ones from that) stored on your sd card as an
APK.

> I go one step further. I save the old app (apk file) before
> trying the new. If I like the new I keep it, otherwise I go
> back. My apk archives go back many years and you'd be
> surprised how many still work just fine up to and including
> Android 9. And some don't of course. Nothing ventured...

Ah, I see. You use the same method.

Most free APK backup solutions can be set to save all updates automatically
(or to delete them, depending on how you set up the backup tool).

>> Some people never look at the options/settings etc.,
>> never change anything and go happily on about their
>> business. Those are NOT the people who have problems --
>> they use everything straight out of the box. They
>> probably follow recipes with no deviation. I regard
>> these people as deficient in some important way.
>
> Try it. You'll no longer be one of the deficient people... ;)

There are merits to both approaches.

Personally, I try to set each app to store the data inside my external sd
card where I am forced to create a directory since Android pollutes the top
level of the external sd card.

I tell each app to store everything I care about into that one top-level
directory of the SD card.

Then, just before my periodic factory wipes, I remove the SD card.

In summary, I think there are two fundamental models for backup:
a. Turn your brain off - put it all on the cloud - cross your fingers
b. Keep your brain running all the time - think about your backups

To The Real Bev's point, each has merit for different people who own
different minds.

[Frank Slootweg]

Percival P. Cassidy <Nob...@notmyisp.net> wrote:

Sorry, I misread.

So you apparently configured WhatsApp to backup your messages (Chats)
to your Google Drive. I.e. WhatsApp is an example of a non-Google app
which has its *own* backup mechanism which you have to *configure* (i.e.
WhatsApp does *not* use Google's/Android's (Settings -> Personal ->
Backup & reset ->) 'Backup my data' ('Back up app data, Wi-Fi passwords
and other settings to Google servers') mechanism.

So for the four categories of non-Google apps I described, WhatsApp is
in the category second-best (which is actually quite good, because the
third is quite bad and the fourth is a nightmare).

> and so did all our other apps' settings and histories.

I've asked this to others - without response sofar -, so I'll ask you
as well: Do you have some specific (i.e. names and Google Play URLs)
examples of these other (non-Google) apps which "transferred just fine"
(without any additional user actions)?

[Frank Slootweg]

Lu Wei <luwe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2019-8-1 2:02, Frank Slootweg wrote:

[...]

> > BTW, *if* you think (per-app) root-access might solve your problem,
> > have a look at 'KingRoot' (not to be confused with 'Kingo Root').
> > KingRoot offers per-app root-access, i.e. you only give root-access to
> > the apps that need it (i.e. Titanium Backup). I withhold a pointer (URL)
> > to KingRoot, because it's trivial to find and I don't want newbies to
> > get themselves into trouble by following one of my pointers.
> >
> > Good luck.
> >
> Thanks for the recommendation. Root is not an option for me, because I
> read root process of Xiaome need to unlock BL and flash a new rom, which
> will destroy all data; and the Vivo I have has no root method yet. I
> searched about KingRoot, got an impression that it's a hack tool, some
> results say it is not so "clean" as SuperSU. I don't think they can get
> around BL, and I am yet not too desperate to risk it, so I'd rather put
> it off.

I was wary about KingRoot, but it has some very good reviews from
reputable sources. I used it on my (Android 4.1.1) Huawei Ascend
Y300[-0151]. To use KingRoot, you do not need to unlock the bootloader.
Quite the contrary, KingRoot is a tool to get root access without an
unlocked bootloader. Anyway, before trying to root your phone, KingRoot
*first* reports the historical success rate for *your* phone, i.e.
brand, model, etc.. Of course there are never any guarantees that these
kind of tools can/will not brick your device, but again, the favorable
reviews indicate it's quite safe.

I withheld pointers so far, but perhaps this review (which I used)
will put your mind at ease:

'Kingroot Review: Is it Safe to Root using it?' (18FEB2019, i.e. quite new)
<https://android.tutorials.how/kingroot-review>

This review is quite positive, has download information and detailed
instructions and specifically says:

"The traditional Android rooting process involves unlocking the
bootloader of the device, flashing a custom recovery such as TWRP
recovery and then flashing the root script from the recovery mode.
All this could take more than 30 minutes and if not performed
correctly, theres a chance that one might brick their device."

[nospam]

In article <qhvdpq$15i$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen G. Holder

<arling...@nospam.net> wrote:

> > false. ios apps can be archived on a mac or windows pc, and you've been
> > told this many times before.
>
> Hi nospam,
>
> Like I said, your credibility is absolutely worthless nospam.
> o What you say is no better in the end than a flip of the coin.

translated: what i said is correct and has triggered a rant.

> On this very topic, you got your head handed to you when you and Jolly
> Roger both sent poor hapless users (was it Ant, or Wade?, Or maybe both?)
> on wild-goose chases when they asked about how to back up their already
> installed apps which were no longer available on the iTunes store.
>
> Do I really need to dig up those sorry sordid silly games you play, nospam?

you didn't understand what was said, as usual.

backing up an app to be restored to the *same* device works without
issue, and can even be configured to occur automatically without user
interaction.

what's not possible is backing up an app to later be used on a device
that has different hardware because the app is sliced to only contain
the necessary resources.

for a simple example, a 64-bit app won't run on a 32-bit device,
something that affects more than just ios.

> >
> >> The sad fact is that iOS backup is primitive compared to Android backup
> >> for
> >> already installed apps, nospam, where what we're talking about is that
> >> exact version _after_ the app has been installed (which is generally the
> >> case for many people doing backups).
> >
> > false. ios backup is built into ios itself, with no additional apps
> > required, plus it backs up everything.
>
> As I said nospam, your credibility is absolutely worthless
> o We may as well flip a coin to determine if your answer is correct.
>
> The fact is that on iOS you can't back up, after the fact, not only the
> system apps and their specific version, but any already installed app and
> their version - since it's highly unlikely that the version will be
> available at the time of backup on the iOS App Store (we can dig up the
> threads where David Empson handed you and Jolly Roger your heads, nospam).

false.

> On Android - it's trivial.
> o Android backs up the exact version of already installed apps
> (even system apps) even if those apps no longer exist on the net.

same on ios.

i've been doing exactly that for more than a decade and now have
multiple versions of several thousand apps. as it turns out, i've never
needed anything other than the latest version.

> > false. that is not an automatic process, and again, not all android
> > devices have sd card slots.
> >
> > doing that is very easy on ios (and *is* an automatic process), just
> > not with sd cards.
> >
> > plus, backing up apps is nowhere near as important as backing up user
> > data.
> >
> > apps can be re-downloaded, but user data cannot, and in many cases,
> > user data can't be recreated, such as photos or voice memos.
>
> Play your silly games nospam.
> o You know EXACTLY what I said iOS can and cannot do.

i know exactly what you said, and it's incorrect.

unlike you, i have a very solid understanding of ios.

> iOS is utterly primitive in functionality compared to Android
> o iOS can't even list your already installed apps to an editable file for
> heaven's sake, without adding an entire computer & the iTunes abomination.

there is no valid reason to have an editable text file of installed
apps.

> >> You fail to comprehend that there are different threat models, where
> >> storing your private data on the cloud is a completely different threat
> >> model than leaving your phone lying on the kitchen table.
> >
> > you fail to comprehend that if your phone is lost or stolen, anyone can
> > read your data, and likely will, in particular, your password database,
> > photos, and much more.
>
> If my phone is lost or stolen...
>
> How are they going to read my password database when it's stored only in an
> encrypted format, nospam?

it's decrypted on the device so that you can read it.

> How are they gonna read my private texts which are stored behind an
> app-specific PIN, nospam?

in many cases, that can be easily bypassed.

for example, some apps use a pin to prevent running the app, but fail
to encrypt the user data.

you often brag how you mount the entire file system and access any
file. no need to even use an app at all. just read the files directly.

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Thu, 01 Aug 2019 17:46:57 -0400, nospam wrote:

> translated: what i said is correct and has triggered a rant.

Hi nospam,

Your credibility has long ago been proven to be absolutely worthless.
o What you say is no more credible than the result of a coin toss.

Worse, you constantly claim imaginary Apple functionality
o Such that you consistently send poor hapless users on wild-goose chases

o Why do the Apple Apologists constantly send poor unsuspecting iOS users on wild goose chases?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/ynh0PE9lK_I/QOiGP4_SFQAJ>

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Thu, 1 Aug 2019 18:26:50 +0800, Lu Wei wrote:

> Maybe they just can't wait to push the product out to compete with iOS,
> and let users be their little mouse.

I have both Android & iOS devices where the difference in functionality is
so great that I liken iOS to a butterknife versus Android being a chainsaw,
when you need to cut some wood.

iOS is so restricted that it basically can't even do the simplest of things
(like graph wifi for all access points over time, as just one trivial
example), whereas Android does so much more that it's just not funny.

Those who pine for iOS just want a toy operating system which is basically
not functional compared to Android.

The facts are clear:
o There's zero app functionality on iOS that isn't already on Android
o Far more important, there's PLENTY on Android that is not on iOS.

Those are facts that, if you wish to refute, simply pass an adult test:
o Name just one

[nospam]

In article <qi0o7h$9k6$8...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen G. Holder

<arling...@nospam.net> wrote:

> iOS is so restricted that it basically can't even do the simplest of things
> (like graph wifi for all access points over time, as just one trivial
> example), whereas Android does so much more that it's just not funny.

it can easily do that, and you were even told exactly how to do it on
*numerous* occasions.

[The Real Bev]

tl;dnr

My answer: For the same reason that the frogs pull potential escapees
back into the pot.


--
Cheers, Bev
"We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala,
it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet." -- Anon.

[Percival P. Cassidy]

I don't need to give the GooglePlay URLs because you can simply plug the
name into the GooglePlay search bar, but here is a sample of the
non-Google apps. I have on my phone:

Sygic (navigation app.)
GasBuddy
Amazon Shopping
A Honeywell app for remote thermostat control (I don't recall the name)
Washington Post
Bitdefender security app.
Toyota Entune
AccuBattery
Apps for our NetGear router and TP-Link range extender
NewEgg
Apps for "smart" devices of various makes
IFTTT
Tasker

Perce

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Fri, 02 Aug 2019 05:32:57 -0400, nospam wrote:

>> iOS is so restricted that it basically can't even do the simplest of things
>> (like graph wifi for all access points over time, as just one trivial
>> example), whereas Android does so much more that it's just not funny.
>
> it can easily do that, and you were even told exactly how to do it on
> *numerous* occasions.

This statement is why you're an Apple Apologists nospam.
o You can't stand that iOS is basically not funcdtional compared to Android

So you simply brazenly claim purely imaginary iOS functionality
o Why do the Apple Apologists deny facts & habitually fabricate imaginary content?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/eRTC23FyVDY/fDk0k8KAAwAJ>

Nobody on this planet can do what you claim.
o Nobody.

Why do Apple Apologists constantly brazenly fabricate what turns out to be wholly imaginary Apple functionality?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/SZfblCIRc9s>

The facts are clearly shown in the thread I referenced:
o It's a fact iOS devices can't even graph Wi-Fi signal strength over time
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/PZuec56EWB0/rX-L9xbYAQAJ>

You score of Apple Apologists can't possibly be even slightly educated or
intelligent since you couldn't last a single week in grad school or in the
Silicon Valley being no more accurate than the result of a coin toss,
nospam.
o What key trait distinguishes Apple Apologists from normal adults?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/yyNyGsFKPlQ/F1oVb8ICBgAJ>

Here is a list of you Apple Apologists - whose credibility is worthless.
o Alan Baker <nu...@ness.biz>
o Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com>
o Andreas Rutishauser <and...@macandreas.ch>
o Beedle <Bee...@dont-email.me>
o B...@Onramp.net
o Chris <ithi...@gmail.com>
o Davoud <st...@sky.net>
o Elden <use...@moondog.org>
o Elfin <elfi...@gmail.com> (aka Lloyd, aka Lloyd Parsons)
o *Hemidactylus* <ecph...@allspamis.invalid>
o joe <no...@domain.invalid>
o Joerg Lorenz <hugy...@gmx.ch>
o Johan <JH...@nospam.invalid>
o Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com>
o Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
o Lloyd <elfi...@gmail.com> (aka "Elfin")
o Lloyd Parsons <lloy...@gmail.com> (aka "Elfin")
o Meanie <M...@gmail.com>
o nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid>
o Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>
o Snit <use...@gallopinginsanity.com> (aka Michael Glasser)
o Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net>
o Wade Garrett <wa...@cooler.net>
o Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com>
o et al.

You all prove that your credibility is worthless
o Your claims are no more accurate than the result of a coin toss

[nospam]

In article <qi2c04$2e9$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen G. Holder

<arling...@nospam.net> wrote:

> Nobody on this planet can do what you claim.

false. everyone other than you can, some of whom have even explained to
you on numerous occasions how to do what you ask, but instead of
thanking them, you go off on yet another rant that it can't be done.

> o It's a fact iOS devices can't even graph Wi-Fi signal strength over time

false. they absolutely can, and in fact, an app to do exactly that can
be written in less than a day, it's that easy.

you once claimed you were going to learn how to write ios apps. now's
your chance.

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Fri, 02 Aug 2019 18:29:51 -0400, nospam wrote:

>> Nobody on this planet can do what you claim.
>
> false. everyone other than you can, some of whom have even explained to
> you on numerous occasions how to do what you ask, but instead of
> thanking them, you go off on yet another rant that it can't be done.

Hi nospam,

Play your silly word games nospam.
o Go play.

Fact is, you apologists always fail the simplest of adult tests.
o Name just one.

I proved, in detail, that it can't possibly be done
o <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/PZuec56EWB0/rX-L9xbYAQAJ>

You provided .... .... ... ... ... ... ... absolutely nothing, nospam.
o All you do is incessantly claim imaginary functionality

The proof is simple.
o Just 3 words.

You can't find a single reference on the planet which backs up your claim.
o Not a single cite.

You apologists always fail the simplest of tests of belief systems
o Name just one

[nospam]

In article <qi2tsd$1v4$3...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen G. Holder

<arling...@nospam.net> wrote:

> I proved, in detail, that it can't possibly be done

nope.

what you have proven is that you are incredibly inept at doing the
simplest things, even with step by step instructions, and that you're a
troll.

you also snipped the part where i staid that writing a wifi graphing
app is *trivial*.

[Frank Slootweg]

Well, often the name of an app is not unique/unambiguous, but in this
case the probably are.

> Sygic (navigation app.)

Sygic needs a DropBox - i.e. not a Google Drive - account for Backup
and Restore (of Favorites, Routes and History) so you have to get a
DropBox account and configure Sygic.

And you will have to reload all maps, which can be many GBs of data.

And you will have to reconfigure/ recustomize your settings, because
these are not kept in your account, because they are device specific (I
have Sygic on four devices, two active, two backup).

So this is an example of an app which does *not* "transfer just fine",
unless the user takes precaution.

[I don't have these, so I can't comment.]

> GasBuddy
> Amazon Shopping
> A Honeywell app for remote thermostat control (I don't recall the name)
> Washington Post
> Bitdefender security app.
> Toyota Entune
> AccuBattery
> Apps for our NetGear router and TP-Link range extender
> NewEgg
> Apps for "smart" devices of various makes

> IFTTT

IFTTT uses an IFTTT user account - i.e. in the cloud - which probably
stores most data - including your Applets and their settings - in your
Profile/Account. AFAICT, IFTTT only has one local setting ('Sync
options'), so a transfer/restore is probably indeed not a big deal.

> Tasker

I don't have Tasker, but a look-alike, Automate. Automate does have
local settings and data, so it will need manual user intervention for
backup/restore/transfer.

Bottom line: Backup/restore/transfer of the settings and data of
non-Google apps is not as automatic/easy as some people say/claim it is.

If it's easy for some people, then they are just lucky with their
specific set of non-Google apps or/and they forgot what they actually
had to do to make backup/restore/transfer possible.

If these preparations/actions are not done, then yes, most of the time
these apps will somewhat work after the restore/transfer, they 'just'
won't work the *same way* they did before the transfer. And that's
exactly the point I and others (The Real Bev, etc.) are making.

(AFAIC,) EOD.

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Sat, 03 Aug 2019 00:35:52 -0400, nospam wrote:

> what you have proven is that you are incredibly inept at doing the
> simplest things, even with step by step instructions, and that you're a
> troll.
>
> you also snipped the part where i staid that writing a wifi graphing
> app is *trivial*.

Play your silly games nospam.

I speak facts.

I know full well you're saying an app can perhaps be _written_ if the
necessary APIs are available (which neither you nor I would know if those
necessary APIs do exist and if the iOS architecture will allow it).

The factual evidence is clearly the following:
1. Google Play has always had a plethora of available Wi-Fi graphing apps
2. The iOS iTunes App Store has always had zero

What does _that_ obviously glaring fact imply, nospam?

[nospam]

In article <qi4k2q$sr5$2...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen G. Holder

<arling...@nospam.net> wrote:

>
> > what you have proven is that you are incredibly inept at doing the
> > simplest things, even with step by step instructions, and that you're a
> > troll.
> >
> > you also snipped the part where i staid that writing a wifi graphing
> > app is *trivial*.
>
> Play your silly games nospam.

no games.

> I speak facts.

no, you definitely don't.

> I know full well you're saying an app can perhaps be _written_ if the
> necessary APIs are available (which neither you nor I would know if those
> necessary APIs do exist

i do know, and they are.

> and if the iOS architecture will allow it).

it does.

have you forgotten the fact that i write mobile apps?

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Sat, 03 Aug 2019 15:41:07 -0400, nospam wrote:

> have you forgotten the fact that i write mobile apps?

Hi nospam,

And Diesel & Snit claim to be programming geniuses, nospspam.
o Yet all of you always prove to be as credible as a coin toss

Remember the Snit video which you applauded, nospam?
o <https://youtu.be/7QaABa6DFIo> (Snit video, which apologists applauded)

Your credibility has always been about at the level of a coin toss.

You know why, nospam?
o I do.

Your brain is such that all your belief systems are entirely imaginary
o Your brain is wired such that facts play absolutely no role

You wouldn't last a week in graduate school or in the Silicon Valley.

In summary, the obvious indisputable factual evidence is clearly...

1. Google Play has always had a plethora of available Wi-Fi graphing apps
2. The iOS iTunes App Store has always had zero

The fact you don't like facts doesn't change the fact that they're facts.

[nospam]

In article <qi4t1s$b5g$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen G. Holder

<arling...@nospam.net> wrote:

> 1. Google Play has always had a plethora of available Wi-Fi graphing apps

not a plethora.

> 2. The iOS iTunes App Store has always had zero

false.

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Sat, 03 Aug 2019 17:29:44 -0400, nospam wrote:

>> 1. Google Play has always had a plethora of available Wi-Fi graphing apps
>
> not a plethora.
>
>> 2. The iOS iTunes App Store has always had zero
>
> false.

Play your silly games nospam incessantly claiming imaginary functionality.
o Your brazen denials of fact are why your credibility is worthless.

Your brazen claims of imaginary iOS functionality can't even pass the
simplest of the adult tests of an imaginary belief system, nospam.

I haven't looked in a while but certainly when we last visited this topic,
there were _zero_ apps on the iOS iTunes app store with this basic
functionality.

o It's a fact iOS devices can't even graph Wi-Fi signal strength over time

<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/PZuec56EWB0>

If you believe there is now such an app on the iOS app store today, then...
o Name just one

[nospam]

In article <qi59sv$36b$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen G. Holder

<arling...@nospam.net> wrote:

> I haven't looked in a while but certainly when we last visited this topic,
> there were _zero_ apps on the iOS iTunes app store with this basic
> functionality.

that doesn't mean it can't be done, as you are trying to claim.

it just means nobody cares enough to bother because there are far more
interesting apps to write.

> o It's a fact iOS devices can't even graph Wi-Fi signal strength over time

*not* a fact, since it's trivial to write an app to do exactly that.

[Arlone G. Trolder]

Once a lonely troller camped by a Usenet group,
Under a branch of the comp hierarchy,
And it sang as it watched and waited 'til its bait lines worked,
You'll come a-feeding the troller with me.

Feeding the troller, feeding the troller,
You'll come a-feeding the troller with me,
And it sang as it watched and waited 'til its bait lines worked,
You'll come a-feeding the troller with me.

Along came a poster to swallow the bait and hook,
Up jumped the troller and grabbed him with glee,
And it sang as it stuffed that poster in its tucker bag,
You'll come a-feeding the troller with me.

Feeding the troller, feeding the troller,
You'll come a-feeding the troller with me,
And it sang as it stuffed that poster in its tucker bag,
You'll come a-feeding the troller with me.

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Sun, 04 Aug 2019 02:16:39 -0400, nospam wrote:

> *not* a fact, since it's trivial to write an app to do exactly that.

Play your silly games, nospam.
o All you Apple Apologists act like children when confronted with facts.

FACTS:
1. Google Play has many Wi-Fi graphing apps
2. The iOS iTunes App Store has zero

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Sun, 4 Aug 2019 07:30:53 -0000 (UTC), Arlone G. Trolder wrote:

> Once a lonely troller camped by a Usenet group,

I suspect this childish post is from Jolly Roger but it could be from any
of the always extremely childish posters shown below ...

o Alan Baker <nu...@ness.biz>
o Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com>
o Andreas Rutishauser <and...@macandreas.ch>

o B...@Onramp.net
o Beedle <Bee...@dont-email.me>
o "Boris T." <b...@lsd.invalid> (a common troll)
o Carlos E.R. <robin_...@es.invalid>
o Char Jackson <no...@none.invalid>
o Chris <ithi...@gmail.com>
o "Cybe R. Wizard" <cybe_r...@WizardsTower.invalid> (always a child)
o Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net> (sometimes, but only rarely posts as an adult)
o David Catterall <djc...@eircom.net> (a common troll)
o Davoud <st...@sky.net>
o Diesel <m...@privacy.net> (aka Dustin Cook)

o Elden <use...@moondog.org>
o Elfin <elfi...@gmail.com> (aka Lloyd, aka Lloyd Parsons)

o Fox's Mercantile <jda...@att.net> Jeff
o Jasen Betts <ja...@xnet.co.nz> (always posts as that of a child)
o John Gabriel <NoS...@nospam.net> (can only troll)
o *Hemidactylus* <ecph...@allspamis.invalid>
o Jasen Betts <ja...@xnet.co.nz> (mostly is an adult but often is a child)
o joe <no...@domain.invalid> (rarely, but sometimes posts as an adult would)

o Joerg Lorenz <hugy...@gmx.ch>
o Johan <JH...@nospam.invalid>

o John Doe <alway...@message.header>
o John McWilliams <jp...@comcast.net>
o John-Del <ohg...@gmail.com>
o Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com>
o Ken Hart <kwh...@frontier.com>

o Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
o Lloyd <elfi...@gmail.com> (aka "Elfin")
o Lloyd Parsons <lloy...@gmail.com> (aka "Elfin")
o Meanie <M...@gmail.com>

o nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> (bullshits more than anyone on Usenet)
o Nil <redn...@REMOVETHIScomcast.net>
o "pf...@aol.com" <peterw...@gmail.com> Peter Wieck, Melrose Park, PA
o Rene Lamontagne <rla...@shaw.ca> (always posts as a child would post)
o "R.Wieser" <add...@not.available> (aka Rudy Wieser) (always a child)
o Sandman <m...@sandman.net> (hates facts)

o Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>

o she...@outlook.com
o Snit <use...@gallopinginsanity.com> (aka Michael Glasser, troll's troll)

o Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net>
o Wade Garrett <wa...@cooler.net>

o Wolf K <wol...@sympatico.ca> (always posts as a child)

o Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com>
o et al.

People who can't handle facts, try to drown out the facts.
o They're like Flat Earthers who are confronted with facts they don't like.

[Percival P. Cassidy]

I see the option to backup to DropBox, but I do NOT have a DropBox account.

Perce

[The Real Bev]

On 08/04/2019 02:05 PM, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:

> I see the option to backup to DropBox, but I do NOT have a DropBox account.

They're very convenient for transferring files that are too big to go in
email.

--
Cheers, Bev
"Qui custodiet ipsos custodes?" --Juvenal

[Percival P. Cassidy]

On 8/4/19 5:56 PM, The Real Bev wrote:

>> I see the option to backup to DropBox, but I do NOT have a DropBox
>> account.
>
> They're very convenient for transferring files that are too big to go in
> email.

I know that, but I don't use it.

Perce

[Arlen G. Holder]

On 1 Aug 2019 19:35:38 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> I've asked this to others - without response sofar -, so I'll ask you
> as well: Do you have some specific (i.e. names and Google Play URLs)
> examples of these other (non-Google) apps which "transferred just fine"
> (without any additional user actions)?

The Nova free launcher brings back the _exact_ homescreen and settings.
o It's not a Google app and its data is saved on the sd card just fine.

<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.teslacoilsw.launcher>

NOTE: I don't use the cloud for backup as I feel people who do are not
putting their brain in gear on how to set up a system such that they don't
need to put their private data on the cloud.

REFERENCES:
(Showing it takes intelligence & effort to keep private data off the cloud.)
o Do people of reasonable technical ability store their private data on the Internet (if so, for what gain?)
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/mBIZ-8jGdmk/aLDJkSJQAAAJ>
o Why do the big marketing organizations offer free cloud storage anyway?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/T8jyHNmCHoo/_QgyHUn_AwAJ>
o What are some key common databases you often SHARE between your desktop & mobile devices?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/fbtSgT0AiP0/Bwb_tsmeBwAJ>
o Do you have a working freeware automatic sync between Android & Windows?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/7aOWwoEwsZ0/3f5qTpwBAgAJ>
o Is there any free FUNCTIONALITY that you need to do on Android, that you can't do WITHOUT a Google Account?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/xzaii4eUY_E/WeY-r7_OAAAJ>
o What do Android experts use for their single cross-platform encrypted password database synced on the LAN?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/YChNXksRNHw/tp74v9LJAwAJ>
o How do you successfully import & merge & overwrite multiple keepass.kdbx files between Windows & Android?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/y7CWoAunIOY/8eBx3mXSBAAJ>
o Do you have a working cross-platform PASSWD database for Windows, Linux, Mac, iOS, & Android on your home LAN?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/iIjcGCYnm-E/HV1B82nlBwAJ>
o Has anyone here ever set up a CalDAV server on Windows for use with Android CalDAV clients?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/52iSsFUQinE/AflgVrHVEAAJ>
o What's the best way to forward SMB TCP port 445 to something higher than 1024 on Windows?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/3QQ8bAZeXNI/p7yqvwHrBQAJ>
o From Windows, how can we open a command line on the Android filesystem?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/vmWWLzPHKt0/bG6EHd8GBQAJ>
etc.
HINT: It takes intelligence & effort to keep private data OFF the cloud!

[Frank Slootweg]

Percival P. Cassidy <Nob...@notmyisp.net> wrote:

So then we can only conclude that - contrary to what you said - this
app ('Sygic') - did *not* "transfer just fine", but only the *app* was
transfered, not the settings, not the Favorites, Routes and History and
not the maps.

That's fine. For some people, having to reconfigure/re-customize an app
is not a big deal. But if you have tens and tens apps and each has tens
and tens of settings, it's not just a big deal, it's a nightmare.

(AFAIC,) EOD.

[Arlen G. Holder]

On 5 Aug 2019 10:53:18 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> That's fine. For some people, having to reconfigure/re-customize an app
> is not a big deal. But if you have tens and tens apps and each has tens
> and tens of settings, it's not just a big deal, it's a nightmare.

Hi Frank,
You're good at complaining - where I'm different than you since I provide
solutions.

As you're well aware, I work on solutions to all the problems I tackle,
backup being one of the problems I've clearly tackled, where my simple
solution has worked for me (and where I factory wipe periodically).

Since you seem to favor the cloud while I deprecate the cloud, obviously my
working solutions won't fit into your solution set - but - what do YOU
suggest as a workable solution to the problem set, Frank?

Or do you just want to whine about it and not provide any solution?

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 14:42:49 -0000 (UTC), Arlen G. Holder wrote:

> Since you seem to favor the cloud while I deprecate the cloud, obviously my
> working solutions won't fit into your solution set - but - what do YOU
> suggest as a workable solution to the problem set, Frank?

Instead of complaining, I opened up a post that asks for solutions, where
the cloud solutions are fine - but since I don't use the cloud for my
working backup & restore solution - I'm not the one who is going to propose
them.
o What solution do you use for backup & restore in prep for a factory wipe?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/_LjKBaB69ZU>

The goal is a working solution that others use, with or without the cloud.

[Lu Wei]

On 2019-8-2 3:35, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>
> I was wary about KingRoot, but it has some very good reviews from
> reputable sources. I used it on my (Android 4.1.1) Huawei Ascend
> Y300[-0151]. To use KingRoot, you do not need to unlock the bootloader.
> Quite the contrary, KingRoot is a tool to get root access without an
> unlocked bootloader. Anyway, before trying to root your phone, KingRoot
> *first* reports the historical success rate for *your* phone, i.e.
> brand, model, etc.. Of course there are never any guarantees that these
> kind of tools can/will not brick your device, but again, the favorable
> reviews indicate it's quite safe.
>
> I withheld pointers so far, but perhaps this review (which I used)
> will put your mind at ease:
>
> 'Kingroot Review: Is it Safe to Root using it?' (18FEB2019, i.e. quite new)
> <https://android.tutorials.how/kingroot-review>
>
> This review is quite positive, has download information and detailed
> instructions and specifically says:
>
> "The traditional Android rooting process involves unlocking the
> bootloader of the device, flashing a custom recovery such as TWRP
> recovery and then flashing the root script from the recovery mode.
> All this could take more than 30 minutes and if not performed
> correctly, theres a chance that one might brick their device."
>
Thank you. I'll keep it for next phone switching. Hope Android could
grow better by the time.

--
Regards,
Lu Wei
IM: xmpp:luwe...@riotcat.org
PGP: 0xA12FEF7592CCE1EA

[Rachel Phillips]

i use esfile app, it has ftp access from desktop or another phone with ftp software and no root needed. however you will need to know where the files you want are located.
I transfer my apps(apks),
for contacts i export to vcf file first then i transfer
documents are saved where i saved but some apps have their own folders, esfile will also give a clue where the files are, they group some by types


On Monday, July 29, 2019 at 8:13:29 PM UTC-4, Lu Wei wrote:
> I am switching to a new phone, both Android. Again, I am facing the
> problem that my user data may get lost many. No easy migration is a
> design flaw of Android I thought, though now many apps exist that at
> least phone book, message and album could be transferred. But there
> seems no general way to migrate other apps. Copying entire /sdcard does
> not work generally; I even tried "adb backup", got success for one app,
> but not for another. I heard about something like Titanium backup, but
> it needs root, which is not an feasible option.
>
> I wonder, since apps are not granted root privilege to run (I see from
> "adb shell" that they run as a user name like u0_a228, u0_a229) , why
> root privilege should be needed to backup their data? Shouldn't a GUI
> user (don't know the proper name) or shell user has a higher privilege
> over those apps users, and has full access to their data to backup and
> transfer them?

[Rachel Phillips]

k9 should not be a problem because its imap so even if you restore it will still fetch the headers.
On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 12:29:36 PM UTC-4, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
> On 30 Jul 2019 14:28:52 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>
> > I assume in your case the transfer process didn't take care of the
> > email messages in k9's mail store (proving 'my' point).
>
> Hi Frank,
>
> I use K-9 mail because it doesn't use Google Framework Services.
> o What problems do you have with restoring K-9 after a factory wipe?
> <https://i.postimg.cc/X7jYKSTW/backup01.jpg>
>
> In my case, my email is stored on Google's IMAP server (although I'm
> transititioning _away_ from all Google products, including Gmail)
> o Let's document the best known current free REPLACEMENTS for Google "mail" account - so all benefit from our efforts
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/YUdwh4QgoRQ/QAMpsDO8AQAJ>
>
> I should note that I don't use email all that often on a phone, simply
> because the typing is abymysmal - but still - what problems are you having
> restoring your K-9 mail environment to what it was before you periodically
> factory wiped the phone?
>
> Why don't I have the problems that you have, Frank?

[Rachel Phillips]

indeed, some apps do store if you link with fb or google, but not guaranteed to save everything and you don't know they store

secondly, depending on the android, the google store may not display the compatible version anymore, thats why apk backup is important. i refain from aptoid or apkmirror, you don't know the repackaging source.



On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 1:57:59 PM UTC-4, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> Arlen G. Holder <arling...@nospam.net> wrote:
> > On 30 Jul 2019 14:28:52 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> >
> > > I assume in your case the transfer process didn't take care of the
> > > email messages in k9's mail store (proving 'my' point).
> >
> > Hi Frank,
> >
> > I use K-9 mail because it doesn't use Google Framework Services.
> > o What problems do you have with restoring K-9 after a factory wipe?
> > <https://i.postimg.cc/X7jYKSTW/backup01.jpg>
>

> Read what I wrote, not what you think I wrote. Backing up and
> restoring *apps* is trivial. What is not trivial at all, is backing up
> and restoring the *data* and *settings* (especially the latter) of
> *non*-Google apps.
>
> Your screenshot just shows that you can restore the apps themselves.
> Duh! Big deal!

>
> > In my case, my email is stored on Google's IMAP server (although I'm
> > transititioning _away_ from all Google products, including Gmail)
>

> But after a restore, you will have lost all of K-9 Mail's *data* (i.e.
> local copies of email, local folders, address book, etc., etc.) and its
> *settings*.
>
> [...]

[Rachel Phillips]

only way to use this backup is in itunes and it don't merge rather it resets the phone, not optimal if you only need to recover 1 file LOL
>
> ios devices support local backups on the user's computer, including
> user data, optionally encrypted, making it even more secure.
>

yet you are keeping your pc/desktop share open.... in order for the backup to occur. you still have packets over the wifi

>
> > instead of on the cloud for
> > the entire world to hack into.
>

[Rachel Phillips]

exactly, i guess some folks that have over 100 apps and restoring to settings

for maps, google does save to offline, but yes you need to find the directory where it's stored try, esfile

for bookmarks, email them to email account(say you do 10 a month the 'must haves') copy past email to yourself, you can use a running email thread for yourself , although some browser don't have export function.

I typically work top down where pc is top and mobile are down, so if im working on google maps i do on desktop and transfer to the mobiles(kml file)

Same for contacts, my addressbook->google, they go to mobile from the apps

only thing is photos but esfile i can tranfer all images not just photos/camera-folder

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Thu, 8 Aug 2019 08:47:18 -0700 (PDT), Rachel Phillips wrote:

> I typically work top down where pc is top and mobile are dow

If it helps others, I factory wipe often, where, like many of the others, I
don't feel the Android backup process is in the least difficult. I'd give
it the same difficulty level as backing up a desktop to an external hard
drive.

IMHO, instead of having a thread where people mostly complain that they
can't do something as simple as a backup, we should spend our efforts
trying to hone the backup process.

Unfortunately for most people, my well honed process doesn't use the
Internet, and, my backup is tied to my daily organizational tasks, such
that the process I use wouldn't be that useful to most people who, let's
face it
a. Use the highly marketed cloud for almost everything, and,
b. Don't even think about organization or backup until it's too late.

Nonetheless, I'll open a separate thread on honing the backup process,
simply because Usenet is a potluck where we can all bring something of
value to share with everyone else.
o Honing the periodic Android cellphone data & app backup & restore process to desktop or external storage
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/seKus8ZIZV0>

[123456789]

Rachel Phillips wrote:

> i use esfile app, it has ftp access from desktop or
> another phone with ftp software and no root needed.

If you mean ES File Manager it is no longer available in the
Play Store.

https://www.androidpolice.com/2019/04/27/es-file-manager-vanishes-from-play-store-possibly-part-of-do-global-scandal/

However it is still available in the Amazon App Store if one
wants to chance it. Installing the App Store on any Android
device (not just Amazon Fire tablets) is relatively easy...

[nospam]

In article <8f9d35f6-074e-4719...@googlegroups.com>,

Rachel Phillips <rmani...@gmail.com> wrote:

> only way to use this backup is in itunes and it don't merge rather it resets
> the phone, not optimal if you only need to recover 1 file LOL

false,

> > ios devices support local backups on the user's computer, including
> > user data, optionally encrypted, making it even more secure.
>
> yet you are keeping your pc/desktop share open.... in order for the backup to
> occur.

false.

> you still have packets over the wifi

wifi is encrypted (unless someone is foolish enough to leave it wide
open, without a passphrase), or just connect via usb.

[Lu Wei]

On 2019-8-8 23:14, Rachel Phillips wrote:
> i use esfile app, it has ftp access from desktop or another phone with ftp software and no root needed. however you will need to know where the files you want are located.
> I transfer my apps(apks),
> for contacts i export to vcf file first then i transfer
> documents are saved where i saved but some apps have their own folders, esfile will also give a clue where the files are, they group some by types
>
>

I use "File manager +", an alternative of ES file manager, which I once
used. File managers could help in backup but only very little. And as
the link given by poster "123456789", it is suspicious. That's the
reason I switched to "File manager +", even before the news revealed.
Keep off chinese apps if you have choice, that's a sincere and sad
advice from me, a chinese. I hope things could get better in the future,
but at present, that's a simple way to make you safer on internet.

[Bob F]

On 7/29/2019 5:13 PM, Lu Wei wrote:
> I am switching to a new phone, both Android. Again, I am facing the
> problem that my user data may get lost many. No easy migration is a
> design flaw of Android I thought, though now many apps exist that at
> least phone book, message and album could be transferred. But there
> seems no general way to migrate other apps. Copying entire /sdcard does
> not work generally; I even tried "adb backup", got success for one app,
> but not for another. I heard about something like Titanium backup, but
> it needs root, which is not an feasible option.
>
> I wonder, since apps are not granted root privilege to run (I see from
> "adb shell" that they run as a user name like u0_a228, u0_a229) , why
> root privilege should be needed to backup their data? Shouldn't a GUI
> user (don't know the proper name) or shell user has a higher privilege
> over those apps users, and has full access to their data to backup and
> transfer them?
>

I just used Samsung Smart Switch to transfer everything from My S3 to a
Galaxy S5 without problem.