Let's document the best known current free REPLACEMENTS for Google "mail" account - so all benefit from our efforts

[Arlen G. Holder]

Let's document the best known current free REPLACEMENTS for Google "mail"
account - so all benefit from our efforts!
o <https://protonmail.com/> free, no private information, no IP logs
o <https://tutanota.com/> free, no private information, no IP logs
o <https://mail.yandex.com/> free?, no private info, IP logs?

On the home repair ng, Clare Synyder & rbowman kindly suggested perfectly
viable _alternatives_ to a free Google Gmail account, which I'd like to
explore for the team - with the help of the team - so that the team
benefits (as do I) from the information we jointly bring to the table.
o Google keeps a log of all your electronic parts, brakes, tools, and
automotive tires digital receipts emailed to your GMail account.
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.home.repair/V3kuohx1vf8/9zXep10TAQAJ>

On that post above, others were suggested, which I list here, but which
failed my first-pass attempt, where, always, the extreme expense of
freeware is always in the testing and choosing of the best ones, which is
always best done as a group so that we end up with a global solution.
o <https://www.axigen.com/> mail & calendar, (business solution)
o <https://teksavvy.com/services/> seems to be an ISP???
o <https://www.zoho.com/mail/> free, requires personal information
o <https://www.gmx.com/mail/> free, requires personal information,

Also a "mail2web" mechanism was suggested, which I'm still a bit confused
about as to how it could possibly replace Google Gmail functionality:
o <http://mail2web.com/>
Where they apparently also use Horde, Roundcube, and Squirrelmail:
o Horde webmail - full suite of feaures
o Roundcube webmail - most populare - but with limited features
o Squirrelmail webmail - limited functionality but easy to use (died 4/2018)

In summary, this thread is asked to hone and define the best REPLACEMENTS
to Gmail, which, offhand, I assume the goal would be the following:
o Free, lots of storage, low spam, as little spying as possible
Anything else?

Do you have _other_ freeware Gmail replacement suggestions for the team?

[Mayayana]

"John McWilliams" <jp...@comcast.net> wrote

| > Let's document the best known current free REPLACEMENTS for Google
"mail"
| > account - so all benefit from our efforts!
|

| Lets not do so here.

Better yet, let's point out that there are very cheap
email services and that one can get a domain and have
their own email -- dozens of addresses -- managed by
their host. Why does everything have to be free? People
pay $4 for a cup of coffee but won't pay $2/month for
honest, non-spyware email service.

[Mike]

That's a hollow argument.
A $7.99 (on sale) can of coffee makes 380 cups.
Add a 2-cents for electricity to heat the water
and a splash of sugar and your $4 cup of coffee
costs 100X what it should.

If you live your life with that attitude you're gonna
be...well...like most people with no self control: poor.

Save at every opportunity, like on free email
and you'll retire happy and wealthy and decades early.

FREE is very, very good.

If you have a secret, don't tell anybody. Email won't
be an issue.

[Schweik]

On Sun, 19 May 2019 21:34:23 -0700, Mike <ham...@netscape.net> wrote:

>On 5/19/2019 8:01 PM, Mayayana wrote:
>> "John McWilliams" <jp...@comcast.net> wrote
>>
>> | > Let's document the best known current free REPLACEMENTS for Google
>> "mail"
>> | > account - so all benefit from our efforts!
>> |
>> | Lets not do so here.
>>
>> Better yet, let's point out that there are very cheap
>> email services and that one can get a domain and have
>> their own email -- dozens of addresses -- managed by
>> their host. Why does everything have to be free? People
>> pay $4 for a cup of coffee but won't pay $2/month for
>> honest, non-spyware email service.
>>
>>
>That's a hollow argument.
>A $7.99 (on sale) can of coffee makes 380 cups.
>Add a 2-cents for electricity to heat the water
>and a splash of sugar and your $4 cup of coffee
>costs 100X what it should.
>

Ah, but you forget rental of premises, cost of furnishings, salary of
employees, insurance, both corporate and personnel, interest and
principal on loans, local and federal taxes, legal and accounting
costs and all the other costs of doing business...
--
Cheers,

Schweik

[Carlos E.R.]

On 20/05/2019 04.23, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
> Let's document the best known current free REPLACEMENTS for Google "mail"
> account - so all benefit from our efforts!

Replacement as in Android phones will use that instead of Gmail? Ha,
good luck with that.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Libor Striz]

"Carlos E.R." <robin_...@es.invalid> Wrote in message:

> Replacement as in Android phones will use that instead of Gmail? Ha,good luck with that.-- Cheers, Carlos.

Why luck ?
You can use any POP3/IMAP4 account on an Android phone,
using a 3rd party email client.
--
Poutnik ( the Wanderer )



----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

[Carlos E.R.]

On 20/05/2019 12.00, Libor Striz wrote:
> "Carlos E.R." <robin_...@es.invalid> Wrote in message:
>
>> Replacement as in Android phones will use that instead of Gmail? Ha,good luck with that.-- Cheers, Carlos.
>
> Why luck ?
> You can use any POP3/IMAP4 account on an Android phone,
> using a 3rd party email client.

Sure. *Only* for email.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Dan Purgert]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

Indeed.

It's a shame there aren't any good caldav clients / apps for android.
But then again, https://my.site.tld/hordemail isn't exactly a pain to
navigate to.


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--
|_|O|_|
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5 4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

[Piet]

Carlos E.R. wrote:
> Libor Striz wrote:

>> "Carlos E.R."wrote:

>>> Replacement as in Android phones will use that instead of Gmail? Ha,good luck with that.
>>

>> Why luck ?
>> You can use any POP3/IMAP4 account on an Android phone,
>> using a 3rd party email client.
>
> Sure. *Only* for email.

Sure. That's what an e-mail client is for.

-p

[SC Tom]

"Arlen G. Holder" <arling...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:qbt32j$u5t$1...@news.mixmin.net...

I've been using K-9 Mail on my Android devices for quite a while now:

<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.fsck.k9&hl=en_US>

The only permissions it seems to want are Contacts and Storage. The program
itself is solid- no crashes or glitches that I've seen.
--

SC Tom

[Big Al]

On 5/19/19 10:23 PM, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
> On the home repair ng, Clare Synyder & rbowman kindly suggested perfectly

> viable_alternatives_ to a free Google Gmail account, which I'd like to

> explore for the team - with the help of the team - so that the team
> benefits (as do I) from the information we jointly bring to the table.

And since when did we turn into a team?

[SC Tom]

"Big Al" <Big...@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:qbu384$hgs$1...@dont-email.me...

We WERE a tribe; now we've been demoted (?) to team ;-)

[Dan Purgert]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

Aww, and I was really enjoying the warpaint and loincloths :(


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=aXLF

[Libor Striz]

"Carlos E.R." <robin_...@es.invalid> Wrote in message:

> Sure. *Only* for email.-- Cheers, Carlos.

Google mail account is one thing,
Google ID is another thing.

There was request for replacement of Google mail account, not of Google ID.

[Carlos E.R.]

The gmail account is not only for email. The entire android phone is
tied to it and logs your entire activity.


--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Mayayana]

"Carlos E.R." <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote

| Replacement as in Android phones will use that instead of Gmail? Ha,
| good luck with that.
|

My ladyfriend has an Android. I'm not sure she even knows
her gmail address. They forced her to have one when she got
the phone. Just another Google sleazeball move that was
irrelevant to her.

If I remember correctly her email program is called
Nine. She's very happy with it. The program she had with the
phone started complaining about security. She was frustrated.
So I looked online for ideas. An hour later she had the new
program and has been happy with that ever since. She uses
her ISP address with IMAP, I think, then uses POP on her
computer, so she always gets a copy of all email on her
computer and all of it gets erased from the POP server, but
she can send and receive on her phone as needed.

[nospam]

In article <qbt5ep$aeq$1...@dont-email.me>, Mayayana

<maya...@invalid.nospam> wrote:

>
> Better yet, let's point out that there are very cheap
> email services and that one can get a domain and have
> their own email -- dozens of addresses -- managed by
> their host. Why does everything have to be free? People
> pay $4 for a cup of coffee but won't pay $2/month for
> honest, non-spyware email service.

so paying monthly for email is ok, but paying monthly for photoshop,
office or other subscription software is not. nice contradiction there.

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Mon, 20 May 2019 10:58:18 -0000 (UTC), Dan Purgert wrote:

> It's a shame there aren't any good caldav clients / apps for android.

Hi Dan Purgert,

Since Usenet is a potluck, everyone brings what value they can.

We go way back where you generally post one or two adult posts before
instantly devolving into a whiny senseless child with nothing to offer.

Nonetheless, I will "mirror" what I perceive to be your purposefully
helpful comment by noting that there are free Android apps which do not
require a CalDAV server, such as what I use, from F-Droid, where it
was still free when I last downloaded it, which is the SimpleMobileTools
calendar app, which imports/exports ICAL *.ics files with aplomb.
<https://www.simplemobiletools.com/>

To be clear, I researched only a portion of this calendaring topic a while
ago, where I note the Android & iOS-related threads below, where _my_
goal was to NOT put my calendar on the Internet, which is a different
goal than you appear to have.

Given that your goal is different, these threads may not help you
as much as they help those who want to keep their calendar off the
net - but there are caldav enabled apps in those lists, I believe.

ANDROID:
o Has anyone here ever set up a CalDAV server on Windows for use with Android CalDAV clients?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/52iSsFUQinE/AflgVrHVEAAJ>

IOS:
o Does a free offline non-Internet calendar app exist for iOS that imports/exports ICS text files?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/OzUOmgJLmZs/Xzx9DMxnFAAJ>
NOTE: As of the last post, iOS appears to lack this free functionality.

It appears you're making the observation that a good CalDAV
client doesn't exist on Android - which is an interesting topic.

Since those threads were seeking an _offline_ solution, I ran a
quick search just now for you, Dan, to see if there are any good
CalDAV clients on Android, where that quick search found this as
the first hit:
o CalDAV Clients/Android
<https://wiki.davical.org/index.php/CalDAV_Clients/Android>

Second hit:
o CalDAV/CardDAV solution for Android
<https://www.davx5.com/>

To your point, Dan, this third hit points to a supposedly simple
Android CalDAV client - but it doesn't appear to be on Google Play anymore.
o How to configure Caldav/Carddav on Android
<https://www.namecheap.com/support/knowledgebase/article.aspx/9272/2171/how-to-configure-caldavcarddav-on-android>

Hmmmm... even though I have no need for a CalDAV client at the
moment (since I already have a working private LAN solution),
it's _interesting_ your claim that Android doesn't have a viable
CalDAV client.

Searching on Google Play from my desktop, this pops up, althouth
it's not a free app (which kills it's use for general purposes):
o CalDAV-Sync, by dmfs GmbH
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.dmfs.caldav.lib>

Here's another payware CalDAV & CardDAV client on Android
o DAVx⁵ (DAVdroid) – CalDAV/CardDAV Client, by bitfire
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=at.bitfire.davdroid>

And another:
o CalendarSync - CalDAV by Calendar/Task/Contact Sync Mobile
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.icalparse>

Dunno if this works, but it appears to be free:
o Caldav Sync Free Beta, by gege
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.gege.caldavsyncadapter>

In summary, it's surprising if it's a fact that Android doesn't have
a free CalDAV-enabled client - which I hope Dan Purgert (and others)
can edify the rest of us on the status (since I don't use them).

--
Dan Purgert: Please don't turn into an instant child in your response.
This post was intended to be purposefully helpful; treat it as such.
You're welcome to factually refute what I wrote as I don't claim to be
an expert on Android CalDAV clients (since I don't use them).
Just remember please - Usenet is a potluck to bring value in every post.

[Oliver Wilson]

Re: Mon, 20 May 2019 09:08:37 -0400, \

> My ladyfriend has an Android. I'm not sure she even knows
> her gmail address. They forced her to have one when she got
> the phone. Just another Google sleazeball move that was
> irrelevant to her.

Does your ladyfriend say yes to everything without even thinking about the question?
You don't have to say yes when Google asks you to create an id when you set up a new Android phone.
Many people just say no and the Android phone works just as well without the google id.
Same with location services.
Same with everything.
Just say no.

Nobody forces you to say yes.

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Mon, 20 May 2019 07:30:50 -0400, SC Tom wrote:

> I've been using K-9 Mail on my Android devices for quite a while now:
>
> <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.fsck.k9&hl=en_US>
>
> The only permissions it seems to want are Contacts and Storage. The program
> itself is solid- no crashes or glitches that I've seen.

Hi SC Tom,

Thanks for that advice, where we have discussed GSF-free MUAs on the
Android ng in the past, where K-9 is generally on the top of the list
o GSF independent free, ad free, email programs for Android on Google Play
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/fQPHDg9VutI/8QhMreVoCwAJ>

Here's a list that I found, at that time, on the first pass, for example:
o K-9 Mail, by K-9 Dog Walkers (GSF independent, no ads, free)
o OpenMail (K-9 Fork), by Deepen Dhulla (GSF independent, no ads, free)
o FairEmail, open source by Marcel Bokhorst (GSF independent, no ads, free)
o ProfiMail Go, by Lonely Cat Games (GSF independent, no ads, free)
o ReaganMail, by Reagan.com (GSF independent, no ads, free)
o Squeaky Mail, K9 fork, by Adam Wasswerman (GSF independent, no ads, free)
o Minimal Mail, by GomezGutierrezD, K9 fork (GSF independent, no ads, free)
etc.

However, the question is about the server service, not the "client".
o What's the best free mail service that replaces Google altogether?

--
NOTE: For non-Android afficianados, GSF stands for Google Services
Framework, which is sort of a "net framework" of sorts, for Android, IMHO.

[nospam]

In article <qbup8k$h97$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Oliver Wilson

<oliver...@its.invalid> wrote:

> > My ladyfriend has an Android. I'm not sure she even knows
> > her gmail address. They forced her to have one when she got
> > the phone. Just another Google sleazeball move that was
> > irrelevant to her.
>
> Does your ladyfriend say yes to everything without even thinking about the
> question?

she thought about it more than you do, arlen.

> You don't have to say yes when Google asks you to create an id when you set
> up a new Android phone.

true. it can use an existing one, arlen.

> Many people just say no and the Android phone works just as well without the
> google id.

no it does not, arlen.

[Mayayana]

"Oliver Wilson" <oliver...@its.invalid> wrote

>
You don't have to say yes when Google asks you to create an id when you set
up a new Android phone.
Many people just say no and the Android phone works just as well without the
google id.
Same with location services.
Same with everything.
Just say no.

Nobody forces you to say yes.
>

Interesting. She got it at T-Mobile and they
set it up, saying it was required as part of phone
setup. I don't use a computer phone so I didn't
pay much attention. But I suppose it doesn't
really matter. They assigned something random
and she's never logged on.

[William Unruh]

People working in Phone stores are not necessarily the most clued up
people as to what is necessary and what not.
>
>

[nospam]

In article <qbv3hq$ma0$1...@dont-email.me>, Mayayana

<maya...@invalid.nospam> wrote:

> >
> You don't have to say yes when Google asks you to create an id when you set
> up a new Android phone.
> Many people just say no and the Android phone works just as well without the
> google id.
> Same with location services.
> Same with everything.
> Just say no.
>
> Nobody forces you to say yes.
> >
>
> Interesting. She got it at T-Mobile and they
> set it up, saying it was required as part of phone
> setup.

it is.

> I don't use a computer phone so I didn't
> pay much attention. But I suppose it doesn't
> really matter.

it doesn't.

> They assigned something random
> and she's never logged on.

it does when she uses the phone.

[John McWilliams]

[Carlos E.R.]

On 20/05/2019 22.41, Mayayana wrote:
> "Oliver Wilson" <oliver...@its.invalid> wrote
>
>>
>> You don't have to say yes when Google asks you to create an id when you set
>> up a new Android phone.
>> Many people just say no and the Android phone works just as well without the
>> google id.
>> Same with location services.
>> Same with everything.
>> Just say no.
>
>> Nobody forces you to say yes.
>>
>
> Interesting. She got it at T-Mobile and they
> set it up, saying it was required as part of phone
> setup.

It is.

> I don't use a computer phone so I didn't
> pay much attention. But I suppose it doesn't
> really matter. They assigned something random
> and she's never logged on.

Unless you login, you do not get updates or backups.

Make sure she has the login name and password written somewhere, because
on rare occasions the thing may ask for them (like a google servers
failure, happened once to me and thousands more people around here).
Specially when migrating to a new phone, which will happen eventually,
and normally you want at least the phone book copied over.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Tue, 21 May 2019 00:36:38 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> Unless you login, you do not get updates or backups.

Hi Carlos,

Facts first; only then can adults rationally discuss logic.
o Android phones do NOT need a Google Account

Can you please clarify what you feel does NOT update
o When we simply say "no" to the Google prompt to create an ID?

I only care about the facts, where the narrative changes with the facts.
o But I must say I'm allergic to bullshit such that BS makes me irritable

It's hard to tell if you're just bullshitting again, or not though
o Becuase you didn't clarify "which" updates or backups you speak of.

Certainly I automatically back up my phone all the time
o Without needing anything to do with a Google Account

It's not clear what you're talking about, as I'm not sure from what you
wrote whether you were talking about apps or if you were talking about the
system, but both seem to update just fine on my non-rooted Android phone
(AFAIK) - which has no Google Account.

I haven't had a Google account on my phone for quite some time, and my
system is updated better than most according to this thread which asked
everyone what version they were automatically updated to:
o What "Android security patch level" is your Android phone currently at?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/WKsE8UROGOA/ZrwWceTPAQAJ>

In fact, I've gone further than to eliminate the Google ID in that I've
eliminated _all_ the Google-named apps that didn't break the system
outright (which was all but one):
o In Nougat, which google apps can we safely DISABLE?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/8rHYBivfNtU/GWsiku14DAAJ>
And

o GSF independent free, ad free, email programs for Android on Google Play
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/fQPHDg9VutI/8QhMreVoCwAJ>

If you're talking about apps updating, instead of the system updating, then
that also is already covered in this thread which _is_ Google Play, just
Google Play wearing a white lab coat instead of the familiar pajamas:
o Is there any free FUNCTIONALITY that you need to do on Android, that you can't do WITHOUT a Google Account?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/xzaii4eUY_E/8ZI6VRL8AAAJ>

In summary, since I'm allergic to bullshit, and since I'm beholden to
facts, all I ask is for you to clarify your statements that "Unless you
login, you do not get updates or backups", since I seem to not have the
problems you claim, and I clearly do not have a Google Account on my
Android phone.

To be clear: I'm not saying you're right or wrong - because you didn't
clarify what you were talking about - I'm simply asking for the facts which
you based your belief system upon - and I provided the circumstantial data
by which my belief system is based upon (which is empirical).

[Kenny McCormack]

In article <qbup8k$h97$1...@news.mixmin.net>,
Oliver Wilson <oliver...@its.invalid> wrote:

>Re: Mon, 20 May 2019 09:08:37 -0400, \
>> My ladyfriend has an Android. I'm not sure she even knows
>> her gmail address. They forced her to have one when she got
>> the phone. Just another Google sleazeball move that was
>> irrelevant to her.
>
>Does your ladyfriend say yes to everything without even thinking about the
>question?

That's the kind of "ladyfriend" most guys want.

--
"You can safely assume that you have created God in your own image when
it turns out that God hates all the same people you do." -- Anne Lamott

[Carlos E.R.]

On 21/05/2019 02.40, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
> On Tue, 21 May 2019 00:36:38 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> Unless you login, you do not get updates or backups.
>
> Hi Carlos,
>
> Facts first; only then can adults rationally discuss logic.
> o Android phones do NOT need a Google Account
>
> Can you please clarify what you feel does NOT update
> o When we simply say "no" to the Google prompt to create an ID?
>
> I only care about the facts, where the narrative changes with the facts.
> o But I must say I'm allergic to bullshit such that BS makes me irritable
>
> It's hard to tell if you're just bullshitting again, or not though
> o Becuase you didn't clarify "which" updates or backups you speak of.

I'm not replying with that language of yours. Not even reading the rest.
Wash your mouth with soap before attempting again, if you wish.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Mayayana]

"Kenny McCormack" <gaz...@shell.xmission.com> wrote

| >Does your ladyfriend say yes to everything without even thinking about
the
| >question?
|
| That's the kind of "ladyfriend" most guys want.
|

That's not a ladyfriend. That's a Cherry 2000.

[Piet]

That's not *the* gmail account, that's *a* gmail account. you'd be
suprised how many gmail 'accounts' exist for no other reason than
Android requiring one. Lots of those 'accounts' have obvious names
containing "unused", "unread", "never_checked" etc. etc. Tying any
acttivity to such an 'account" is pretty useless.

-p

[Piet]

Kenny McCormack wrote:
> In article <qbup8k$h97$1...@news.mixmin.net>,
> Oliver Wilson <oliver...@its.invalid> wrote:
>> Re: Mon, 20 May 2019 09:08:37 -0400, \
>>> My ladyfriend has an Android. I'm not sure she even knows
>>> her gmail address. They forced her to have one when she got
>>> the phone. Just another Google sleazeball move that was
>>> irrelevant to her.
>>
>> Does your ladyfriend say yes to everything without even
>> thinking about the question?
>
> That's the kind of "ladyfriend" most guys want.

That's the kind of guys who are in for a nasty surprise.

-p

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Tue, 21 May 2019 13:21:36 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> I'm not replying with that language of yours. Not even reading the rest.
> Wash your mouth with soap before attempting again, if you wish.

Hi Carlos,

I'm allergic to bullshit, such that I break out in a rash when I hear it:
o Your bullshit
o nospam's bullshit

The logic of both your brains can be replaced by the results of a coin toss
o Your credibility is _that_ bad

Meanwhile, my credibility is stellar as I've never even once been shown
wrong on material facts(1) since I don't own an imaginary belief system.

If you wonder why I would "risk" alienating you, the answer is simple
o All you both _can_ do, is bullshit.

You're dead wrong that you "need" a Google Account.
o The fact is that you fail the _simplest_ of tests, both you & nospam,

The simplest of tests of an imaginary belief system is three simple words
o Name just one

Those who own imaginary belief systems (i.e., you & nospam) never pass
o You can't ever pass even the _simplest_ of adult belief system tests.

This is the test of anyone who claims you _need_ a Google Account
o Name just one.

Name just 1 functionality you don't already have WITHOUT a Google Account
o Name just one

o Is there any FUNCTIONALITY that you need to do on Android, that you can't do WITHOUT a Google Account?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/xzaii4eUY_E/8ZI6VRL8AAAJ>

--
(1) Since I'm human and since I've posted thousands upon thousands of facts
on Usenet over many years, I must have, at least once or twice, gotten a
material fact wrong, but since my belief system is based on facts, nobody
has _ever_ found a material fact wrong, and Lord knows, they would _love_
to prove me wrong. Certainly, since Usenet is casual, I make momentary
thinkos and typos, so I'm talking here about material facts, particularlly
those that are challenged, where I've _never_ once been shown to be wrong.
It's not hubris; it's simply that I don't bullshit. My belief system is not
only _based_ on facts, but I modify my belief system as needed, with new
facts. Unfortunately, Usenet contains many people who "intuit" their logic,
sans a shred of facts to back it up, such that they always fail a simple
"name just one" factual challenge, which DESTROYS imaginary belief systems
in seconds (and for that alone, they hate me, which is OK by me as they
don't add any value to the Usenet Potluck by their coin-toss credibility).

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Tue, 21 May 2019 14:00:02 -0000 (UTC)
"Arlen G. Holder" <arling...@nospam.net> wrote:

> Meanwhile, my credibility is stellar as I've never even once been
> shown wrong on material facts(1) since I don't own an imaginary
> belief system.

Clearly you don't know you nearly as well as all the rest of us do.

Here, once again, is a pointer to the biggest lie I know of that you've
so far told (although there are bound to be bigger ones):
Message-ID: <po4626$vpu$1...@news.mixmin.net>

You know the one; it's where you said that you've written TEN THOUSAND
tutorials.

Now, if that's not the product of an imaginary belief system, then no
one knows what may be.

--
Cybe R. Wizard

"I have likely written over ten thousand tutorials, where at my last
company, I wrote over five thousand alone. On the Internet, I don't know
how many I have, but if you assume that I write one a day sometimes,
and at least one a week, I have many thousands "
"Arlen G. Holder" <arling...@nospam.net>

[Eli the Bearded]

In comp.mobile.android, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> Mayayana <maya...@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>> Why does everything have to be free? People
>> pay $4 for a cup of coffee but won't pay $2/month for
>> honest, non-spyware email service.
> so paying monthly for email is ok, but paying monthly for photoshop,
> office or other subscription software is not. nice contradiction there.

Email, as described by Mayayana, runs on *someone else's* computer.
Photoshop runs on *the users's* computer.

That's why it is not a contradiction.

Elijah
------
pays for email (and web hosting)

[Eli the Bearded]

In comp.mobile.android, Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net> wrote:
> Carlos E.R. wrote (but not sure who he quoted):

>>> You can use any POP3/IMAP4 account on an Android phone,
>>> using a 3rd party email client.
>> Sure. *Only* for email.

> Indeed.

>
> It's a shame there aren't any good caldav clients / apps for android.

> But then again, https://my.site.tld/hordemail isn't exactly a pain to
> navigate to.

I've got roundcube installed for one of my domains, but I haven't been
super happy with it. I find it fine on desktop and terrible on a phone.
Does hordemail work well with the small screen size of a phone?

(And by "hordemail" you mean <URL:https://www.horde.org/apps/webmail/>,
right?)

Elijah
------
hasn't even considered using that domain for caldav yet

[nospam]

In article <eli$19052...@qaz.wtf>, Eli the Bearded

<*@eli.users.panix.com> wrote:

> >> Why does everything have to be free? People
> >> pay $4 for a cup of coffee but won't pay $2/month for
> >> honest, non-spyware email service.
> > so paying monthly for email is ok, but paying monthly for photoshop,
> > office or other subscription software is not. nice contradiction there.
>
> Email, as described by Mayayana, runs on *someone else's* computer.

email clients run on the user's computer and can access email on a
server or locally (often both).

> Photoshop runs on *the users's* computer.

as do email clients, and can access photos on a server or local.

photoshop can also sync edits among multiple systems via the cloud,
along with a lot of other cloud-based functionality.

> That's why it is not a contradiction.

both have monthly payments.

it's very clearly a contradiction.

[Dan Purgert]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

Yeah, I'll grab a screenshot or three when I get a chance.



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[Eli the Bearded]

In comp.mobile.android, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> email clients run on the user's computer and can access email on a
> server or locally (often both).

Email clients read email. They are not there to receive it at all hours
and store it indefinitely. That's the part you are paying for when
paying for email.

> photoshop can also sync edits among multiple systems via the cloud,
> along with a lot of other cloud-based functionality.

But that's not what most people want, which is why the subscription
model is unpopular. People want to edit their own files on their own
system and are unhappy about having to pay rent to do that.

> it's very clearly a contradiction.

The core feature of email is a server to send and receive email on
behalf of a user and then store received email until the user is ready
to receive it.

The core feature of Photoshop is not network based.

Elijah
------
you may have noticed email clients are sold separately from email service

[nospam]

In article <eli$19052...@qaz.wtf>, Eli the Bearded

<*@eli.users.panix.com> wrote:

> > email clients run on the user's computer and can access email on a
> > server or locally (often both).
>
> Email clients read email. They are not there to receive it at all hours
> and store it indefinitely. That's the part you are paying for when
> paying for email.

leave the email client running and it will receive it at all hours,
which is exactly what happens on mobile devices.

laptops and desktops generally are sleeping when not in use, so email
updates upon wake.

however, if you stop paying the email provider, you no longer get
access and most likely, future email will bounce, on all devices.

> > photoshop can also sync edits among multiple systems via the cloud,
> > along with a lot of other cloud-based functionality.
>
> But that's not what most people want, which is why the subscription
> model is unpopular.

actually, it is what most people want and is an *incredibly* useful
feature.

photoshop on ios actually edits the image in the cloud via a proxy on
the iphone or ipad.

> People want to edit their own files on their own
> system and are unhappy about having to pay rent to do that.

so unhappy that adobe moved to subscription-only long before they
expected to because so many users were subscribing versus buying.

people might complain, but they're continuing to subscribe, so they
aren't overly unhappy.

> > it's very clearly a contradiction.
>
> The core feature of email is a server to send and receive email on
> behalf of a user and then store received email until the user is ready
> to receive it.
>
> The core feature of Photoshop is not network based.

the core features do not matter.

stop paying and the service goes away.

if you stop paying for photoshop, you can't edit photos anymore, at
least not with photoshop. there are many apps that can read/write .psd
and zillions that can do so for jpeg, tiff, png, gif.

if you stop paying for email, you can't send/receive email anymore. you
can only read what you've stored locally. anything still on the server
is no longer accessible.

if you stop paying your isp, you can't get online at all, unless you go
to a public wifi hotspot or the library.

if you stop paying your phone bill, it gets shut off.

et cetera.

> ------
> you may have noticed email clients are sold separately from email service

photo editors, such as photoshop, paintshop, pixelmator, etc., are sold
separately from cloud photo services such as flickr, pbase, instagram,
etc.

some link directly to the cloud services. for example, lightroom can
directly export a collection to flickr, facebook and many others.

[Carlos E.R.]

On 22/05/2019 03.31, nospam wrote:
> In article <eli$19052...@qaz.wtf>, Eli the Bearded
> <*@eli.users.panix.com> wrote:
>
>>> email clients run on the user's computer and can access email on a
>>> server or locally (often both).
>>
>> Email clients read email. They are not there to receive it at all hours
>> and store it indefinitely. That's the part you are paying for when
>> paying for email.
>
> leave the email client running and it will receive it at all hours,
> which is exactly what happens on mobile devices.

No, it won't. It still depends on a server somewhere running 24*7, which
*listens* on the SMTP port. That service has to be paid somehow.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Carlos E.R.]

On 21/05/2019 16.00, Arlen G. Holder wrote:
> On Tue, 21 May 2019 13:21:36 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> I'm not replying with that language of yours. Not even reading the rest.
>> Wash your mouth with soap before attempting again, if you wish.
>
> Hi Carlos,
>
> I'm allergic to bullshit, such that I break out in a rash when I hear it:
> o Your bullshit
> o nospam's bullshit
>
> The logic of both your brains can be replaced by the results of a coin toss
> o Your credibility is _that_ bad
>
> Meanwhile, my credibility is stellar as I've never even once been shown
> wrong on material facts(1) since I don't own an imaginary belief system.

ROTFL! X'-D

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Mon, 20 May 2019 11:44:52 -0000 (UTC), Dan Purgert wrote:

> Aww, and I was really enjoying the warpaint and loincloths :(

While the children on Usenet have proven, as they always do, that not only
do they NOT bring anything of value to the Usenet potluck, but that they
are not capable of adding any on-topic technical value to Usenet:
o Carlos E.R. <robin_...@es.invalid>
o Cybe R. Wizard <cybe_r...@WizardsTower.invalid>
o Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net>
o John Doe <alway...@message.header>
o John McWilliams <jp...@comcast.net>
o Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com>
o nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid>
o she...@outlook.com
HINT: They insist on proving me right that they can't ever add any value.

Moving the on-topic potluck forward, I add value by reporting that I tested
for the team the following five mail services, all of which seem to be
potentially viable as Gmail replacements, based on _preliminary_ tests over
the past couple of days only (where time will tell).
o GMX <https://www.gmx.com/mail/>
o Proton Mail <https://protonmail.com/>
o Tutanota <https://tutanota.com/>
o Yandex <https://mail.yandex.com/>
o Zoho <https://www.zoho.com/mail/>

GMX:
o Unknown storage limit
o Required Mr or Ms gender selection
o Required a first & last name
o Required a country, and, for the USA, a state
o Required a DOB
o Password must be at least 8 characters
o Required a password-recovery selection (SMS or email)
o Required a phone number for SMS verification (but didn't use it???)
o Required captcha (easy fire-hydrant single-pass stuff)
o Doesn't inform you the username is valid until late in the game

Proton:
o 500MB storage & 150 messages per day limit
o Allows choice of domain (protonmail.com, protonmail.ch)
o Recovery email is optional
o Doesn't require gender or name or DOB or location or phone, etc.
o Informs you in real time whether the username is taken or available
o Password must be at least 6 characters
o Choice of verification by captcha, email, sms, or donation
o Captcha is easy one-pass fire-hydrant stuff
o Asks to "show notifications" (which you can block or allow)

Tutanota:
o 1 GB limit
o Doesn't require gender or name or DOB or location or phone, etc.
o Requires a strong password of undetermined characters (at least 8)
o Tells you the password cannot be reset (so choose wisely, I guess)
o Informs you in real time whether the username is taken or available
o Asks you to write down 64 hex character "recovery code"

Yandex:
o Unknown storage limit
o Requires only first name & surname
o Informs you in real time whether the username is taken or available
o Requires a strong password of undetermined characters (at least 8)
o Asks for telephone number but lets you skip in favor of security question
o Allows you to write your own custom security question & custom answer
o Requires a simple Captcha-like typing of screenshot words

Zoho
o 5GB storage limit
o Requires only first name & last name
o Username must be more than 6 characters
o Password literally requires 8 letters even if it's much longer than that
o Requires mobile phone number to send SMS verification code
o Accepts free second-line mobile phone software SMS numbers though
o Asks to enable 2FA but you can skip it "for now"
o Save the numeric "user id" which shows up after you create the account

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Mon, 20 May 2019 12:00:52 +0200 (GMT+02:00), Libor Striz wrote:

> You can use any POP3/IMAP4 account on an Android phone,
> using a 3rd party email client.

Hi Poutnik,
I'm not sure what Carlos' problem is, but I think, based on what he wrote
elsewhere, that he owns what appears to be an imaginary belief system about
Android, which, in his mind (and in the mind of nospam, apparently),
_requires_ an "email" account (of some sort) in order for Android to work.

That their belief system is completely imaginary has long ago been proven
o Where I _think_ that's what Carlos' is alluding to here.

Interestingly, it's iOS that _requires_ a user account; not Android
o Anyone with a belief system based on _facts_ would instantly know that

However, I didn't write to waste time on anything Carlos bullshits
o I came to state that, over the past few days, I _tested_ five (5) of the
free email services which Clare Snyder had kindly suggested, where I'll
report elsewhere in this thread my results to date.
o GMX
o Proton Mail
o Tutanota
o Yandex
o Zoho

I've only been testing them for a couple of days, where they seem to be
perfectly reasonable replacements for Gmail, so far, based only on quick
tests by sending friends and family messages to respond to accordingly.

I'll write up a separate more detailed report so that others benefit from
every action, as Usenet is a potluck where we prove our value only by what
we bring to share.

[Libor Striz]

"Arlen G. Holder" <arling...@nospam.net> Wrote in message:
>.Hi Poutnik,I'm not sure what Carlos' problem is, but I think, based on what he wrote elsewhere, that he owns what appears to be an imaginary belief system about Android, which, in his mind (and in the mind of nospam, apparently),_requires_ an "email" account (of some sort) in order for Android to work.

Using term "email" account may be unlucky, possibly leading to confussion.

I would distinguish
Google ID with email address format
and
Google/Gmail email account linked to such ID.

As one can use the ID for general Google authentication, but not it's email account,
or vice versa
or both.


--
Poutnik ( the Wanderer )



----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

[T]

On 5/21/19 11:49 PM, Arlen G. Holder wrote:


Hi Arlen,

Which ones are Thunderbird and IMAP friendly?

Proton mail lets you rent a utility to
use with Thunderbird.

Zoho mail has technical problems out the ass.

-T

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Wed, 22 May 2019 00:30:52 -0700, T wrote:

> Which ones are Thunderbird and IMAP friendly?

Hi T,
Ah! This is a _good_ question, as I did NOT test whether they would work
with any common free cross platform (or platform specific) MUA such as...
o Blue Mail (iOS) <https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/blue-mail-email-mailbox/id1063729305>
o Claws Mail (Windows, Linux, Mac, Android, iOS) <https://www.claws-mail.org/>
o eMClient (Windows, Mac) <https://www.emclient.com/>
o Evolution (Linux) <https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Evolution>
o Geary (Linux) <https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Geary>
o Hiri (Windows, Mac, Linux) <https://www.hiri.com/>
o Inky (Windows, Mac, Android) <https://inky.com/>
o K-9 Mail (Android) <https://k9mail.github.io/>
o Mailbird (Windows) <https://www.getmailbird.com/>
o Mailspring (fork of Nylas Mail) <https://getmailspring.com/>
o myMail (iOS) <https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/mymail-email-app/id722120997>
o Nylas Mail (Windows, IOS, Linux, Mac) <https://www.nylas.com/>
o Outlook (Windows) <https://outlook.live.com/owa/>
o Pegasus <http://www.pmail.com/downloads.htm>
o Spark (Android) <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.readdle.spark>
o Spike (Windows, Mac, Android, iOS) <https://www.spikenow.com/>
o Thunderbird (Windows, Mac, Linux) <https://www.thunderbird.net/>
o Windows Live Mail (Windows) <https://windows-live-mail.en.softonic.com/>
o Zimbra (Windows, Mac, Linux) <https://www.zimbra.com/>
etc.

> Proton mail lets you rent a utility to
> use with Thunderbird.
>
> Zoho mail has technical problems out the ass.

This is great input!

Thanks for that purposefully helpful suggestion & observations!
o I'll pick one of the above MUAs to test each of the 5 services out.

Thanks!

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Wed, 22 May 2019 08:31:08 -0000 (UTC), Arlen G. Holder wrote:

> o Claws Mail (Windows, Linux, Mac, Android, iOS) <https://www.claws-mail.org/>

Since Claws Mail appears to be a decent cross platform solution for
Windows, Linux, Mac, iOS, and Android, I will install Claws that for my
tests of the POP/IMAP/SMTP settings using a mail user agent instead of the
web (which is what my tests prior used).

Here is a first pass at the POP3, IMAP4, & SMTP server & port settings.
o <https://emailconfiguration.com/>
o <https://www.arclab.com/en/kb/email/list-of-smtp-and-pop3-servers-mailserver-list.html>

GMX:
o POP3: pop.gmx.com:995 (SSL or encryption)(alternative: 110) TLS/SSL required: yes for port 995, no for port 110
o IMAP4: imap.gmx.com:993 (SSL/TLS)(alternative: 143) TLS/SSL required: yes for port 993, no for port 143
o SMTP: mail.gmx.com:587/465 (STARTTLS, TLS or encryption) smtp.gmx.com:587 TLS/SSL required: no
o Username: f...@gmx.com
o Password: fubar

Proton:
o POP3: web only?
o IMAP4: web only?
o SMTP: web only?
o Username: f...@protonmail.com
o Password: fubar

Tutanota:
o POP3: web only?
o IMAP4: web only?
o SMTP: web only?
o Username: f...@tutanota.com
o Password: fubar

Yandex:
o POP3: pop.yandex.com:995/SSL
o IMAP4: imap.yandex.com:993/SSL
o SMTP: smtp.yandex.com:465/SSL 587/SSL
o Username: f...@yandex.com
o Password: fubar

Zoho:
o POP3: pop.zoho.eu:995/SSL
o IMAP4: imap.zoho.eu:993 SSL
o SMTP: smtp.zoho.eu:587/TLS 465/SSL
o Username: f...@zoho.com
o Password: fubar

Here is where the information above came from in this first pass.

GMX:
o <https://emailconfiguration.com/gmx-com>
o <http://smtpimap.email/gmx.com-smtp-imap-email-settings.html>
o <https://support.gmx.com/pop-imap/pop3/serverdata.html>
o <https://www.lifewire.com/what-are-the-gmx-mail-smtp-settings-1172152>
o <https://support.gmx.com/pop-imap/pop3/index.html>
o <https://www.serversettings.email/gmx.at-email-server-settings-imap.php>
o <https://serversmtp.com/smtp-gmx/>

Proton:
o <http://prontomail.com/imap.html>
o No POP3 support
o <https://protonmail.com/support/knowledge-base/imap-smtp-and-pop3-setup/>
o <http://smtpimap.email/protonmail.com-smtp-imap-email-settings.html>
o Proton Bridge only for payware users
o <https://protonmail.com/bridge/>

Tutanota: Apparently does not support IMAP or POP3
o <http://smtpimap.email/tutanota.com-smtp-imap-email-settings.html>
o <http://smtpimap.email/iphone/tutanota.com-email-setup.html>
o <https://tutanota.uservoice.com/forums/237921-general/suggestions/6895110-external-imap-pop3-connection>

Yandex:
o <https://emailconfiguration.com/yandex-com>
o <https://yandex.com/support/mail/mail-clients.html>
o <https://www.lifewire.com/yandex-mail-pop3-settings-1170797>
o <http://smtpimap.email/yandex.com-smtp-imap-email-settings.html>
o <http://smtpimap.email/iphone/yandex.com-email-setup.html>
o <https://imapsmtp.email/yandex.ru-smtp-imap-email-settings.html>
o <https://settings.email/yandex-com-tr-email-settings/>
o <https://www.serversettings.email/yandex.com-email-server-settings-imap.php>

Zoho:
o <https://emailconfiguration.com/zoho-com>
o <http://smtpimap.email/zoho.com-smtp-imap-email-settings.html>
o <https://www.zoho.com/mail/help/imap-access.html>
o <https://www.zoho.com/mail/help/zoho-smtp.html>
o <https://emailsettingsguide.com/zoho-imap-and-smtp-settings/>
o <https://brightwhiz.com/zoho-mail-server-settings/>
o <https://www.emailquestions.com/threads/what-are-the-zoho-mail-imap-and-smtp-mail-server-settings.9279/>
o <https://www.hupport.com/zoho-mail-zoho-mail-imap-smtp-configuration-details/>
o <https://www.techtolead.com/pop3-imap-access-configuration-zoho-mail/2171/>
o <https://www.emailquestions.com/threads/what-are-the-incoming-pop3-and-outgoing-smtp-mail-server-settings-for-zoho-mail.3960/>

[nospam]

In article <cs5frf-...@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.

<robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:

> >>> email clients run on the user's computer and can access email on a
> >>> server or locally (often both).
> >>
> >> Email clients read email. They are not there to receive it at all hours
> >> and store it indefinitely. That's the part you are paying for when
> >> paying for email.
> >
> > leave the email client running and it will receive it at all hours,
> > which is exactly what happens on mobile devices.
>
> No, it won't.

yes it very definitely will.

> It still depends on a server somewhere running 24*7, which
> *listens* on the SMTP port.

smtp is for sending.

> That service has to be paid somehow.

that's the point. if you stop paying, no more email or whatever service
it is.

[nospam]

In article <qc2trc$jhu$1...@dont-email.me>, <T...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> Proton mail lets you rent a utility to
> use with Thunderbird.

false

[Arlen G. Holder]

On Wed, 22 May 2019 09:07:26 +0200 (GMT+02:00), Libor Striz wrote:

> Using term "email" account may be unlucky, possibly leading to confussion.
>
> I would distinguish
> Google ID with email address format
> and
> Google/Gmail email account linked to such ID.
>
> As one can use the ID for general Google authentication, but not it's email account,
> or vice versa
> or both.

Hi Poutnik,

Yours is a good point, where I am clarifying here that I'm talking about a
Google Account, which, to my knowledge, and, so far, to anyone's knowledge
who has responded, is NOT needed for Android to work just fine.

I've had, for quite some time now, no Google Account on my Android phone,
even as I own a Google Email Address that I can access on my Android phone.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, I originally tried to access that Google mail
account using the Gmail app, but that app, paradoxically, _insisted_ on
syncing my contacts and other files with Google servers, against my wishes
- so I have replaced it with a non-Google MUA (such as K-9 is) as per:

o GSF independent free, ad free, email programs for Android on Google Play
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/fQPHDg9VutI/8QhMreVoCwAJ>

Bear in mind the goal of this thread is to improve our capabilities
o By eliminating the Google Account altogether - including Email.

My belief system is not imaginary like nospam's often proves to be.
o I do NOT have a Google Account and my unrooted Android works fine...

AFAICT...
1. There's full access to Android sans a Google Account
2. There's full access to the Google Play store (via Aurora)
3. There's full access to system updates (AFAIK)
4. There's full access to app updates (via Aurora, F-Droid, etc.)
5. There's full access to automatic backups,
etc.

Since my belief system is not only _based_ on facts ...
o But my belief system is bolstered by facts.

I _love_ facts - so I'm not afraid of technical facts like nospam is
o I'm not afraid to ask direct challenging questions about facts

I've asked the relevant question of _others_ over in this thread:
o Is there any free FUNCTIONALITY that you need to do on Android, that you can't do WITHOUT a Google Account?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/xzaii4eUY_E/8ZI6VRL8AAAJ>

Nobody has come up with any justification for what Carlos & nospam claim
o Not even Carlos or nospam, which, interestingly, is always the case

It's terrifying how many people own completely imaginary belief systems
o Which are based, apparently, on exactly _zero_ actual facts.

Moving forward, in _testing_ the Google Account replacements specifically
for email, I tested the following, so far, with their free web access:

o GMX <https://www.gmx.com/mail/>
o Proton Mail <https://protonmail.com/>
o Tutanota <https://tutanota.com/>
o Yandex <https://mail.yandex.com/>
o Zoho <https://www.zoho.com/mail/>

Someone who was being purposefully helpful suggested testing IMAP/POP3
o Where they prefer Thunderbird (but, personally, I hate Thunderbird)

Hence, I'll be testing their IMAP/POP access suggestion using the
cross-compatible Mac Linux Windows Android & iOS "Claws" MUA...
o Claws Mail <https://www.claws-mail.org/>

With the following IMAP/POP settings, which I need to hone better:
GMX:
o POP3: pop.gmx.com:995/SSL/TLS 110/none
o IMAP4: imap.gmx.com:993/SSL/TLS 143/none
o SMTP: mail.gmx.com:465/TLS 587/none

As always, I'll share my results with the team since Usenet is a potluck
where everyone's value is in what technical information they bring to the
table.

After preliminary lookups on the settings for each server, the only two
that I expect might be problematic, are Proton Mail & Tutanota, where I ask
others, who are more experienced than I, to add their knowledge and wisdom
to the Usenet potluck picnic so that all benefit from their efforts.

The goal is noble, which is to find a decent replacement for the Google
Email account - where any purposefully helpful adult related technical
information is both welcomed and appreciated - as rare as it may be.

[Carlos E.R.]

On 22/05/2019 12.59, nospam wrote:
> In article <cs5frf-...@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.
> <robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>>> email clients run on the user's computer and can access email on a
>>>>> server or locally (often both).
>>>>
>>>> Email clients read email. They are not there to receive it at all hours
>>>> and store it indefinitely. That's the part you are paying for when
>>>> paying for email.
>>>
>>> leave the email client running and it will receive it at all hours,
>>> which is exactly what happens on mobile devices.
>>
>> No, it won't.
>
> yes it very definitely will.

Nope.

>> It still depends on a server somewhere running 24*7, which
>> *listens* on the SMTP port.
>
> smtp is for sending.

And receiving. If you don't now that, you are showing ignorance, so
don't insist. It is the protocol used by mail *servers* to both send and
receive.

>> That service has to be paid somehow.
>
> that's the point. if you stop paying, no more email or whatever service
> it is.
>

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[nospam]

In article <63agrf-...@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.

<robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:

> >>>>> email clients run on the user's computer and can access email on a
> >>>>> server or locally (often both).
> >>>>
> >>>> Email clients read email. They are not there to receive it at all hours
> >>>> and store it indefinitely. That's the part you are paying for when
> >>>> paying for email.
> >>>
> >>> leave the email client running and it will receive it at all hours,
> >>> which is exactly what happens on mobile devices.
> >>
> >> No, it won't.
> >
> > yes it very definitely will.
>
> Nope.

it does.

zillions of people get email on their phones every day without manually
doing anything, often at inopportune times.

> >> It still depends on a server somewhere running 24*7, which
> >> *listens* on the SMTP port.
> >
> > smtp is for sending.
>
> And receiving. If you don't now that, you are showing ignorance, so
> don't insist.

nope.

<https://www.siteground.com/tutorials/email/protocols-pop3-smtp-imap/>
Simple Mail Transfer Protocol (SMTP) is the standard protocol for
sending emails across the Internet.

> It is the protocol used by mail *servers* to both send and
> receive.

between servers is not the issue.

> >> That service has to be paid somehow.
> >
> > that's the point. if you stop paying, no more email or whatever service
> > it is.

you're avoiding this. again.

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Wed, 22 May 2019 06:49:27 -0000 (UTC)

"Arlen G. Holder" <arling...@nospam.net> wrote:

> While the children on Usenet have proven, as they always do, that not
> only do they NOT bring anything of value to the Usenet potluck, but
> that they are not capable of adding any on-topic technical value to
> Usenet: o Carlos E.R. <robin_...@es.invalid>
> o Cybe R. Wizard <cybe_r...@WizardsTower.invalid>
> o Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net>
> o John Doe <alway...@message.header>
> o John McWilliams <jp...@comcast.net>
> o Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com>
> o nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid>
> o she...@outlook.com

Although I thought your (perceived) enemies list was longer, I am as
proud as always to be included on it.

One may best know a person by their enemies and yours are among the
brightest and most adult and capable folks around here, myself always
excepted.

Obviously that description does not include you any more than it does
me. Possibly less.

The best part is that neither they nor I think of you as an enemy, but
rather as one more deserving of our pity or, possibly, laughter.

--
Cybe R. Wizard

Know thy self, know thy enemy. A thousand battles, a thousand victories.
Sun Tzu

[Carlos E.R.]

ignorance proven.

>
>>>> That service has to be paid somehow.
>>>
>>> that's the point. if you stop paying, no more email or whatever service
>>> it is.
>
> you're avoiding this. again.
>

--
Cheers, Carlos.

[nospam]

In article <9vhgrf-...@Telcontar.valinor>, Carlos E.R.

<robin_...@es.invalid> wrote:

> >>>> It still depends on a server somewhere running 24*7, which
> >>>> *listens* on the SMTP port.
> >>>
> >>> smtp is for sending.
> >>
> >> And receiving. If you don't now that, you are showing ignorance, so
> >> don't insist.
> >
> > nope.
> >
> > <https://www.siteground.com/tutorials/email/protocols-pop3-smtp-imap/>
> > Simple Mail Transfer Protocol (SMTP) is the standard protocol for
> > sending emails across the Internet.
> >
> >> It is the protocol used by mail *servers* to both send and
> >> receive.
> >
> > between servers is not the issue.
>
> ignorance proven.

yep, that's what you did.

[Steve Hayes]

On Wed, 22 May 2019 12:01:44 -0500, "Cybe R. Wizard"
<cybe_r...@WizardsTower.invalid> wrote:

>On Wed, 22 May 2019 06:49:27 -0000 (UTC)
>"Arlen G. Holder" <arling...@nospam.net> wrote:
>
>> While the children on Usenet have proven, as they always do, that not
>> only do they NOT bring anything of value to the Usenet potluck, but
>> that they are not capable of adding any on-topic technical value to
>> Usenet: o Carlos E.R. <robin_...@es.invalid>
>> o Cybe R. Wizard <cybe_r...@WizardsTower.invalid>
>> o Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net>
>> o John Doe <alway...@message.header>
>> o John McWilliams <jp...@comcast.net>
>> o Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com>
>> o nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid>
>> o she...@outlook.com
>
>Although I thought your (perceived) enemies list was longer, I am as
>proud as always to be included on it.

Subject line changed to something more appropriate

--
Steve Hayes
http://www.khanya.org.za/stevesig.htm
http://khanya.wordpress.com

[Arlen Holder]

UPDATE:

Since every thread should increase or reference our tribal knowledge,
please see also this thread today on replacing the GMail app with something
more functional (particularly on editing & resending received messages):
o *Email client*, by pinnerite
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/ipVzFfvfvGA>
--
Every thread on Usenet should increase our overall c.m.a tribal knowledge.