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Let us Gossip about Gossip
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Henosis Sage
Feb 13, 2016, 3:12:15 AM2/13/16
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Let us Gossip about Gossip shall we?
Seems to be an very popular topic in these parts. LOL
I found an interesting article on line recently. It was scribed by the
founder of the (titled) "University of Metaphysical Sciences", Christine
Breese, Ph.D.. Though do not know what her Docorate Degree specialty was
in, you'll find more info about her below.
Here's a few more poignant extracts fwiw:
Healing The Harm Of Gossip
by Christine Breese, Ph.D.
Gossip is such a terrible thing, and yet so prevalent, even in metaphysical circles. It causes separation, ostracizing particular people from social circles. It causes hatred and anger. It causes cliques and "we-hate so-and-so-clubs." It causes divisions among people who are supposedly teaching that we are all One.
If we are all one, then no one should ever slander another, for then we are slandering our own self when we say something bad about someone else. The question I always ask is:
"How are we ever going to stop world wars if not even the metaphysical people
can get along?"
It makes me wonder when I see so many rifts and divisions among those in a metaphysical community. Gossip is one of the key factors in these divisions among metaphysical people.
Gossip, more accurately called slander, [ and DEFAMATION too btw] is a very damaging action that should never happen in metaphysical circles. Many would say that they never gossip. However, I challenge anyone who says this to record every conversation on a tape recorder for an entire month and see if there is at least one point of gossip in there somewhere.
[...] We have all been on the receiving end of slander, [Lies being told about us, or by us about others, amounts to DEFAMATION, sometimes that even rises to the level of "Criminal Defamation as well.] and everyone knows it doesn't feel good. [ Unless one is a psychopath or brain dead, that is.]
I cannot even count the number of counseling sessions I have had with someone who feels harmed by what someone else has said behind his or her back. I have found myself doing a lot of work on removing the harm done by slander, not only for others, but also for myself. I have been the target of many projections that have no substance in reality, as everyone has, and I always wonder how someone came up with such a far out story that never even happened.
[...] The best solution is to not have the thoughts that are behind gossip in the first place. Policing the consciousness will be more effective than policing the tongue. A lot of time, money, effort, and healing have been done around the energy of gossip on the receiving end. Now let us address the healing that must happen on the giving end of gossip. If the root cause is healed, then the effect is not manifest anymore.
*** Let us stop the effect at its cause. ***
So what is the cause of gossip? Usually, when someone feels the need to say something bad about someone else, it comes from a place of feeling hurt, having judgment about the other person, jealousy and insecurity, the premise of "processing," warn somebody about so-and-so, and it is even done secondhand by someone who wants to join in the "fun" of slander against another who he or she has never even met.
Let's look at each of these causes individually and find out where in the consciousness an adjustment can be made.
[ snipped ]
[...] Insecurity and jealousy is another cause of gossip. This is more common than most people would like to admit. It comes from a desire to find fault with a person who otherwise exhibits extraordinary characteristics.
If their faults can be found, then this person seems less admirable, strong, or talented. Insecurity and jealousy often come from dissolved partnerships where one party seems to be doing better than the other. This perceived success of the other, of course, may or may not be true and might just be a projection.
If it is not, then the one who feels jealous better get going on finding their own extraordinary characteristics instead of being resentful of others who have found theirs. The premise of "processing" is a very thinly disguised action of gossip. This is a very common window that is used by metaphysical people to gossip, for everyone wants to be a helping friend.
THIS IS A TRAP that I have fallen into as a listener more than I would like to admit, for I always want to help a friend resolve hurt feelings.
[...] Warning others about someone is another thinly disguised version of gossip. There is a fine line between a true warning and a gossip based warning. [BUT that line in fact exist in reality~!]
YES, it might be quite appropriate to let someone know about a predatory type person who is pretending to be metaphysical, or a reader or counselor who has given out some very bad advice, or some other unsavory behavior that has shown itself to be a harmful pattern that remains unchanged. However, this should only be volunteered if the person is on a path to meet that harmful person or group.
If at all possible, it is best to just say that there is a questionable reputation rather than giving particulars. If there is no reason for speaking about it, it should remain unaddressed. More likely than not, however, gossipers use the pretense of warning about someone with a malicious tone in the voice, not a caring tone, reluctant to say it in the first place.
Where does this come from in the consciousness?
[ snipped ]
[...] But how does one not "take in" this opinion of someone he or she has never met, or knows a little, as it is being so colorfully relayed? This brings us to the question of whether or not we should indulge the gossipers or not.
Why do we let people say something bad about someone else in our presence?
It may be difficult to cut someone off who is gossiping, but this is what must happen, even if it means losing the friendship. I learned this the hard way. I remember when a friend called me almost every other day for about two years. Our conversations were about many things. However, some kind of gossip about someone was always worked into it, and she would qualify it by saying, "I need to process this." I realized later that she was not trying to process anything at all. She just wanted to gossip and get revenge on the person by trying to sway my perceptions of the other. She got a certain feeling of pleasure from it, which we will discuss in a moment, for there is a certain pleasure principle that accompanies gossip in both the gossiper and THE LISTENER.
[...] So, then, why did I indulge the gossiper, knowing that it was all her illusion, hoping to point that out to her? I believe it is morbidity. It is the same thing in all of us that makes us crane our necks to see what happened in a terrible car accident as we drive by. This morbidity is what makes us listen to the gossipers. We want to "see" the ugliness, even if it is shocking, even if it doesn't involve us, even if we don't believe it.
[...] Next time someone gossips in our presence, let us stop the gossiper in his or her tracks, even if it means becoming the brunt of the gossip or ending a friendship. Let us have the wisdom to know when it is truly a friend needing to sort things out or if it is gossip. Let us stop gossip where it begins.
Let us heal the hurt feelings and judgments that make gossip a reality. Let us tolerate the faults we see in others, even if we don't want to hang out with those people.
Let us live and let live, allowing each other to make the mistakes we need to make in order to grow, allowing each other to have the faults that we have agreed to have in this lifetime.
[...] Let us allow even the lowliest among us to be our teacher, our Buddha. What does that person who irks you so much teach you about yourself? This is the path of the master.
Christine Breese is the founder of the University of Metaphysical Sciences, www.umsonline.org. She can be reached at ums AT umsonline.org.
Visit the Christine Breese website to read articles on consciousness and awakening, visit University of Metaphysical Sciences Video Satsangs to see talks on spiritual subjects. Read articles on Wisdom of the Heart Church.
Visit Starlight Journal for blogs, newsletter, and forums on spiritual subjects. Visit Christine Breese's Metaphysical Sciences youtube channel to view free video satsangs.
*** *** ***
Now that was pretty neat, yeah?
Good one Christine.
I have 17 webpages open that relate to "gossiping". Going to cull a few
neat quotes and toss them in the post for this thread.
Hey *shit* I might even learn something new or be reminded of something
I had forgotten about. ;-)
Nah, never!
*twinkle*
Seems to be an very popular topic in these parts. LOL
I found an interesting article on line recently. It was scribed by the
founder of the (titled) "University of Metaphysical Sciences", Christine
Breese, Ph.D.. Though do not know what her Docorate Degree specialty was
in, you'll find more info about her below.
Here's a few more poignant extracts fwiw:
Healing The Harm Of Gossip
by Christine Breese, Ph.D.
Gossip is such a terrible thing, and yet so prevalent, even in metaphysical circles. It causes separation, ostracizing particular people from social circles. It causes hatred and anger. It causes cliques and "we-hate so-and-so-clubs." It causes divisions among people who are supposedly teaching that we are all One.
If we are all one, then no one should ever slander another, for then we are slandering our own self when we say something bad about someone else. The question I always ask is:
"How are we ever going to stop world wars if not even the metaphysical people
can get along?"
It makes me wonder when I see so many rifts and divisions among those in a metaphysical community. Gossip is one of the key factors in these divisions among metaphysical people.
Gossip, more accurately called slander, [ and DEFAMATION too btw] is a very damaging action that should never happen in metaphysical circles. Many would say that they never gossip. However, I challenge anyone who says this to record every conversation on a tape recorder for an entire month and see if there is at least one point of gossip in there somewhere.
[...] We have all been on the receiving end of slander, [Lies being told about us, or by us about others, amounts to DEFAMATION, sometimes that even rises to the level of "Criminal Defamation as well.] and everyone knows it doesn't feel good. [ Unless one is a psychopath or brain dead, that is.]
I cannot even count the number of counseling sessions I have had with someone who feels harmed by what someone else has said behind his or her back. I have found myself doing a lot of work on removing the harm done by slander, not only for others, but also for myself. I have been the target of many projections that have no substance in reality, as everyone has, and I always wonder how someone came up with such a far out story that never even happened.
[...] The best solution is to not have the thoughts that are behind gossip in the first place. Policing the consciousness will be more effective than policing the tongue. A lot of time, money, effort, and healing have been done around the energy of gossip on the receiving end. Now let us address the healing that must happen on the giving end of gossip. If the root cause is healed, then the effect is not manifest anymore.
*** Let us stop the effect at its cause. ***
So what is the cause of gossip? Usually, when someone feels the need to say something bad about someone else, it comes from a place of feeling hurt, having judgment about the other person, jealousy and insecurity, the premise of "processing," warn somebody about so-and-so, and it is even done secondhand by someone who wants to join in the "fun" of slander against another who he or she has never even met.
Let's look at each of these causes individually and find out where in the consciousness an adjustment can be made.
[ snipped ]
[...] Insecurity and jealousy is another cause of gossip. This is more common than most people would like to admit. It comes from a desire to find fault with a person who otherwise exhibits extraordinary characteristics.
If their faults can be found, then this person seems less admirable, strong, or talented. Insecurity and jealousy often come from dissolved partnerships where one party seems to be doing better than the other. This perceived success of the other, of course, may or may not be true and might just be a projection.
If it is not, then the one who feels jealous better get going on finding their own extraordinary characteristics instead of being resentful of others who have found theirs. The premise of "processing" is a very thinly disguised action of gossip. This is a very common window that is used by metaphysical people to gossip, for everyone wants to be a helping friend.
THIS IS A TRAP that I have fallen into as a listener more than I would like to admit, for I always want to help a friend resolve hurt feelings.
[...] Warning others about someone is another thinly disguised version of gossip. There is a fine line between a true warning and a gossip based warning. [BUT that line in fact exist in reality~!]
YES, it might be quite appropriate to let someone know about a predatory type person who is pretending to be metaphysical, or a reader or counselor who has given out some very bad advice, or some other unsavory behavior that has shown itself to be a harmful pattern that remains unchanged. However, this should only be volunteered if the person is on a path to meet that harmful person or group.
If at all possible, it is best to just say that there is a questionable reputation rather than giving particulars. If there is no reason for speaking about it, it should remain unaddressed. More likely than not, however, gossipers use the pretense of warning about someone with a malicious tone in the voice, not a caring tone, reluctant to say it in the first place.
Where does this come from in the consciousness?
[ snipped ]
[...] But how does one not "take in" this opinion of someone he or she has never met, or knows a little, as it is being so colorfully relayed? This brings us to the question of whether or not we should indulge the gossipers or not.
Why do we let people say something bad about someone else in our presence?
It may be difficult to cut someone off who is gossiping, but this is what must happen, even if it means losing the friendship. I learned this the hard way. I remember when a friend called me almost every other day for about two years. Our conversations were about many things. However, some kind of gossip about someone was always worked into it, and she would qualify it by saying, "I need to process this." I realized later that she was not trying to process anything at all. She just wanted to gossip and get revenge on the person by trying to sway my perceptions of the other. She got a certain feeling of pleasure from it, which we will discuss in a moment, for there is a certain pleasure principle that accompanies gossip in both the gossiper and THE LISTENER.
[...] So, then, why did I indulge the gossiper, knowing that it was all her illusion, hoping to point that out to her? I believe it is morbidity. It is the same thing in all of us that makes us crane our necks to see what happened in a terrible car accident as we drive by. This morbidity is what makes us listen to the gossipers. We want to "see" the ugliness, even if it is shocking, even if it doesn't involve us, even if we don't believe it.
[...] Next time someone gossips in our presence, let us stop the gossiper in his or her tracks, even if it means becoming the brunt of the gossip or ending a friendship. Let us have the wisdom to know when it is truly a friend needing to sort things out or if it is gossip. Let us stop gossip where it begins.
Let us heal the hurt feelings and judgments that make gossip a reality. Let us tolerate the faults we see in others, even if we don't want to hang out with those people.
Let us live and let live, allowing each other to make the mistakes we need to make in order to grow, allowing each other to have the faults that we have agreed to have in this lifetime.
[...] Let us allow even the lowliest among us to be our teacher, our Buddha. What does that person who irks you so much teach you about yourself? This is the path of the master.
Christine Breese is the founder of the University of Metaphysical Sciences, www.umsonline.org. She can be reached at ums AT umsonline.org.
Visit the Christine Breese website to read articles on consciousness and awakening, visit University of Metaphysical Sciences Video Satsangs to see talks on spiritual subjects. Read articles on Wisdom of the Heart Church.
Visit Starlight Journal for blogs, newsletter, and forums on spiritual subjects. Visit Christine Breese's Metaphysical Sciences youtube channel to view free video satsangs.
*** *** ***
Now that was pretty neat, yeah?
Good one Christine.
I have 17 webpages open that relate to "gossiping". Going to cull a few
neat quotes and toss them in the post for this thread.
Hey *shit* I might even learn something new or be reminded of something
I had forgotten about. ;-)
Nah, never!
*twinkle*
Henosis Sage
Feb 13, 2016, 4:23:46 AM2/13/16
to
On Saturday, 13 February 2016 19:12:15 UTC+11, Henosis Sage wrote:
> Let us Gossip about Gossip shall we?
>
> Seems to be an very popular topic in these parts. LOL
>
> I found an interesting article on line recently. It was scribed by the
> founder of the (titled) "University of Metaphysical Sciences", Christine
> Breese, Ph.D.. Though do not know what her Docorate Degree specialty was
> in, you'll find more info about her below.
>
> Here's a few more poignant extracts fwiw:
>
> Healing The Harm Of Gossip
> by Christine Breese, Ph.D.
>
GOSSIP AND THE EVIL TONGUE
> Let us Gossip about Gossip shall we?
>
> Seems to be an very popular topic in these parts. LOL
>
> I found an interesting article on line recently. It was scribed by the
> founder of the (titled) "University of Metaphysical Sciences", Christine
> Breese, Ph.D.. Though do not know what her Docorate Degree specialty was
> in, you'll find more info about her below.
>
> Here's a few more poignant extracts fwiw:
>
> Healing The Harm Of Gossip
> by Christine Breese, Ph.D.
>
The Hebrew term lashon hara (or loshon hora) (Hebrew לשון הרע; "evil tongue")
is the halakhic term for derogatory speech about another person.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lashon_hara
evil tongue definition, evil tongue meaning
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://dictionary.reverso.net/english-definition/evil%2520tongue&gws_rd=cr&ei=fvO-VteNKcvB0gSy2a7oBQ
Taming the Tongue: What the Bible Says About Gossip
by Morgen Kriedemann
Gossip is common—people like to get a tidbit of “insider knowledge” about others. But is gossiping wrong? What does the Bible say about taming the tongue?
https://lifehopeandtruth.com/relationships/communication/taming-the-tongue/
Speech and Lashon Ha-Ra
Lashon Ha-Ra (in Hebrew)
Level: Intermediate
• Gossip and slander are serious sins in Judaism
• Judaism forbids causing any deception or embarrassment through speech
• It is forbidden even if the statement is true
• There are some exceptions that allow tale-bearing
When non-observant people talk about how difficult it is to observe Jewish law, they usually mention the difficulty of observing Shabbat or keeping kosher or other similarly detailed rituals. Yet the laws that are most difficult to keep, that are most commonly violated even by observant Jews, are the laws regarding improper speech. This is a very important area of Jewish law; entire books have been written on the subject.
http://www.jewfaq.org/speech.htm
[ NOTE ABOVE - when the issues of child sexual assault came up in Australia in recent decades
within the Jewish Communities and schools etc. they had as much toruble as anyone else has with navigating the diffference between "a gossip" and a genuine serious CRIMINAL offence and abuse being done to victims who were unable to defend themselves and the parents who unable to proitect them. Be it the Salvos, the Catholcis, the Police, the Lawyers, Anglicans, Jews, Muslims, or Eckankar, or Teachers and head masters everyone faces these balancing acts -
and it is very hard - but defaulting to ha, it;'s BS and untrue and you there are brakigthis grand LAW about "gossip" well sorry that will not cut it for long ....
PLEASE DO LIVE AND LEARN FROM OTHER'S MISTAKES - https://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/ ]
Proverbs 17:4
http://biblehub.com/proverbs/17-4.htm
TOP DEFINITION - Worm Tongue
A “ Worm Tongue” is a cunning, lying “sack of shit” Troll who for some reason is able to
incredibly manipulate people to evil ends with their voices. The trance that worm tongues
put their victims into is similar to a snake that hypnotizes its prey, before it eats them.
Most televangelists, used-car salesmen, politicians, hookers, drug dealers and lawyers have
worm tongues and have to the power to seduce people with their voices.
The origin of the worm tongue is most-likely the character created by J.R.R. Tolkien in
“The Lord of The Rings” trilogy.
EG
"Len is sure one mother-fucking worm tongue. I have never seen one person create so much
stink between people in such a long time."
by Ian De La Rosa July 03, 2013
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Worm+Tongue
----
GOSSIP IMAGES
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=gossip+evil+tongue&sa=X&espv=2&biw=1745&bih=868&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ved=0ahUKEwjntbrOsvTKAhWlraYKHZP8D9IQsAQIOg
Henosis Sage
Feb 13, 2016, 4:38:55 AM2/13/16
to
On Saturday, 13 February 2016 19:12:15 UTC+11, Henosis Sage wrote:
> Let us Gossip about Gossip shall we?
>
> Seems to be an very popular topic in these parts. LOL
>
> I found an interesting article on line recently. It was scribed by the
> founder of the (titled) "University of Metaphysical Sciences", Christine
> Breese, Ph.D.. Though do not know what her Docorate Degree specialty was
> in, you'll find more info about her below.
>
> Here's a few more poignant extracts fwiw:
>
> Healing The Harm Of Gossip
> by Christine Breese, Ph.D.
>
> Gossip is such a terrible thing, and yet so prevalent, even in metaphysical circles. It causes separation, ostracizing particular people from social circles. It causes hatred and anger. It causes cliques and "we-hate so-and-so-clubs." It causes divisions among people who are supposedly teaching that we are all One.
>
MISC GOSSIP QUOTES
>
> Seems to be an very popular topic in these parts. LOL
>
> I found an interesting article on line recently. It was scribed by the
> founder of the (titled) "University of Metaphysical Sciences", Christine
> Breese, Ph.D.. Though do not know what her Docorate Degree specialty was
> in, you'll find more info about her below.
>
> Here's a few more poignant extracts fwiw:
>
> Healing The Harm Of Gossip
> by Christine Breese, Ph.D.
>
> Gossip is such a terrible thing, and yet so prevalent, even in metaphysical circles. It causes separation, ostracizing particular people from social circles. It causes hatred and anger. It causes cliques and "we-hate so-and-so-clubs." It causes divisions among people who are supposedly teaching that we are all One.
>
"Paul Twitchell Spiritual Notebook"
pg 88
One can neither sell nor betray the Living ECK
Master, for he is a channel of the holy ECK. The slight-
est act against him returns swiftly to the doer. When
one gossips or uses malicious talk about any God-
Realized being, he gets the results in quick doses that
are not often pleasant. It is an old cliche that a person
prays to get something from the divine Source but is
quick to criticize Its channel. This is being two-faced. It
is an attempt at deceit and certainly will not work with
the spiritual forces, for it is a punishable deed.
https://archive.org/stream/PaulTwitchellSpiritualNotebook/Paul%20Twitchell%20-%20Spiritual%20Notebook_djvu.txt
--- ---
alt.religion.eckankar ›
Interesting hot gossip re: Paul and Sant Mat
Marek Gold - Kyogle NSW.
[This was posted from A LOVED FRIEND's PC, now deceased, eckist and ex-eckist,
but always there with a "heart of gold" - even on a bad hair day. ]
03/01/2002
Well... tonight I had a very interesting discussion.
It appears that a local auyervedic Doctor, Jason Chandler, had met Paul on
several occasion... all through happenstance.
He is a Tibetan who was living in India, and travelled a great deal. He had
met Paul on a long haul flight, and later Paul had taken him to a group
initiation he performed in LA (So it is confirmed that Paul did do Group
Initiations in the early stages)
This fellow is not a member of Eckankar, even though he teaches a lot about
the Light and Sound. What is really interesting is that the last time he met
Paul was at Delhi Airport sometime in 1970-71... Paul explained that he was
going to speak to some people at a local Satsang (Not specific) where he was
discussing his use of some of their material in his published works.
Obviously, this is simply a conversation, and not actual evidence, but to
his recollection Paul had no issue at all with the plagiarism question, and
expressed to the fellow that the works he used were in the spiritual domain,
in his opinion, and thus open for reinterpretation and use... However, he
was meeting with the local head of a Spiritual Group to discuss this.
Apparently letters that were speaking of legal action were actioned by this
group (I can only presume Sant Mat) and he was going there specifically to
discuss this issue.
This is the first I have ever heard of anything like this, and the man had
absolutely no connection with Eckankar. The conversation came about because
one of his students (A friend of mine) was studying with him, and started
talking about his constant references to Light and Sound. He brought up the
meetings with Paul Twitchell in this dialogue.
Fascinating, I thought... If this is true, then it seems Paul dealt directly
with the issue when it was raised.
Love
Michael [Wallace]
Australia
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/VD6jyeOBYWY/UJcYRkyucZMJ
--- ---
all about ECK
by Paul Twitchell
Pg 19
Judas committed the grave error of betraying Christ for thirty
pieces of silver, and gave up his own life by hanging. One cannot
sell or betray a channel of the Holy Spirit for materialistic means.
The slightest act against any channel of God comes back
swiftly to the doer. This is true even when one gossips and uses
malicious talk about the God-Realized people. Personal examples
can be given here about those who do not understand the nature
of anyone that dwells in the higher consciousness, and the
troubles that befell them when they attempted to belittle or
ridicule the teachings of the blessed Channels of God.
The greatest evidence here is that you see the spiritualized
ones rise higher, and the maligners go down the survival scale in
spirit attitude with a loss of spiritual and worldly goods.
http://selfdefinition.org/radha-soami/Paul%20Twitchell%20-%20All%20About%20ECK.pdf
[ I guess Paul wasn't thinking about Kirpal Singh when he wrote that page. Ooops - smiling - ]
--- ---
Eckankar-The Key To Secret Worlds
By Paul Twitchell
~Pg 57
As long as anger dominates the mind, it is impossible for anyone to make
any progress on the spiritual path. There are many masks behind which
anger makes its appearance. Some of these are: slander, gossip,
backbiting, profanity, fault-finding, peevishness, quarrelsomeness,
impatience, resentment, mockery, ill will, and irritability.
When one obeys anger in his life he will reap only pain and anguish. No
one can follow the habit of anger and make any progress on the spiritual
path. It is one of the most deadly of human ills, and it often leads to
horrible disasters. Anger probably brings more grief and pain into the
world than any other of the five deadly passions, and perhaps any disease
that is known. Anyone who is doing soul travel while angry will get very
little results when projecting, for he will generally get into the lower
astral planes, inhabited by the lowest entities.
http://www.vielewelten.at/pdf_en/eckanar%20the%20key%20to%20secret%20worlds.pdf
https://www.instagram.com/p/y1DBdHRQUq/
--- ---
by Kwame Nyame 64 » Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:05 am
The Story of Paul Twitchell
By Sri Harold Klemp
Following a Single Path
[ aka ONE CANNOT SERVE TWO MASTERS~!!! ]
There were people during Paul's time who tried to split their inner life two ways by trying to follow ECK as well as some other teaching. One of the individuals who helped Paul when he started to bring out the ECK teachings was a sincere woman whom Paul liked very much. She was in charge of the Eckankar Office in Las Vegas and did most of the work out of her home. One day an ECKist who worked closely with this woman reported to Millie Moore, one of the earliest ECK students, that there were boxes and boxes of mail that hadn't been answered. Somebody should tell Paul, she said.
Millie wasn't sure how to handle this. She had already gotten the message from Paul: Don't complain or gossip to me about anyone else, because if I hear about it, I have to act on it.
Finally, against her better judgment, Millie called Paul and told him about it. "What do you mean, boxes of mail?" Paul said. "I don't want to hear it!" And he slammed down the receiver. Millie, of course, was shattered.
A few weeks later the office manager moved away without even telling anyone she was leaving.
Paul telephoned Millie. "She flew the coop," he said. Paul and Millie went over to this woman's vacated house to get the ECK files; they found stacks and stacks of unanswered letters. In later correspondence Paul remarked that there were letters that hadn't been answered for over a year.
While this woman was acting as the Las Vegas representative for Eckankar, in charge of distributing ECK materials, she was also a spiritualist. She had kept this to herself, but after she left, a letter came from a minister in Orange County, California, addressed to Reverend Paul. Gail Twitchell, under the pen name of Ann Atkinson, wrote a letter back to him questioning his use of the term reverend. The minister responded that the woman who had worked at the ECK Office was also affiliated with this spiritualist church and claimed to have ordained Paul as a minister of that church.
http://64.130.17.214/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=108787
[ LIKE HELLO, ANYONE AWAKE OR LISTENING OUT THERE ... ? ]
--- ---
Eckankar Religion of the Light and Sound of God Deceptive, Spiritual inslavement, Mind Control,
Immaturity. Irratic behavior, Intolerant Internet, Minnesota
Besides the yearly dues you pay, books are costly and numerous. You pay and pay again for everything you get from eckankar. Any functions you participate in through eckankar you pay for and any functions you help promote you pay the cost for. Eckankar org. in general uses it's members as slaves to promote eckankar. These people are subject to mind control and in turn use intimidation to get new members under control. They slop gossip around about each other and apparently in general are gossip collectors on everybody.
Being a private person in just isn't possible. I value my own integrity. I saw little of it in eckankar. In general it seems that being an ekist means becoming a moral degenerate. I enjoyed reading the books but I found the people so spiritaully deprived that I could not relate to them. It saddened me and back then I was willing to believe that I didn't understand. I hoped one day it would make sense since I found meaning in what I read.
It seemed to be beyond their understanding that a person needs to see their own values reflected in a so called spiritual group. Instead of being valued as a person apparently because I wasn't taking part in the crap, I was black balled as far as initiations are concerned. After the area Resa made such a spectical of himself I quietly decided not to renew my membership. Then out of no where, a pink slip came for my next initiation along with my membership renewal.
http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Eckankar/Internet-Minnesota-/Eckankar-Religion-of-the-Light-and-Sound-of-God-Deceptive-Spiritual-inslavement-Mind-Con-827518
--- ---
Ways of Distinguishing Healthy and Unhealthy Cult Movements
© Copyright 1997 / 2007 by Timothy Conway, Ph.D.
* Reinforcing or excusing unethical behaviors (killing, injuring, lying, stealing, plagiarism, bribing, gossiping, sexual misconduct). Also: Inflexible ethical rules that keep people stuck on lower levels of moral development. For example, watch out for moral codes based on “an eye-for-an-eye” mentality or “the ends justify the means.”
http://www.enlightened-spirituality.org/Warning_signs_of_dysfunctional_cults.html
AND A SIDE BAR FROM THAT SAME PAGE
Been way too much chatter about "others" DOUBLE STANDARDS round here for 17 months
* Double standard of behavior for leader(s) and members. Spiritual leaders should maintain high moral standards and exemplary virtuous behavior. Beware any rationalizations given to excuse the leader’s unvirtuous behavior as well as self-aggrandizing, vanity and excessive self-referencing by the leader (e.g., “I am the World Teacher,” “I am the greatest incarnation of God to appear on this planet,” “think always and only of me,” etc.).
A genuine spiritual leader is humble, giving, self-sacrificing, loving, blissful and serene —consistent with an authentic, trans-egoic realization of Divine Spirit (God, Tao, Buddhata, Brahman). Any claims by the leader of being divine should be balanced with declarations that the followers have divinity within them as well, as part of an overall theology of immanence (best balanced with a teaching of divine transcendence—see below).
Important here, too, is how the leader came to be the leader. Grandiose promotional claims (either by the teacher or by his/her followers) or one-upsmanship and huckster techniques are not acceptable. Beware fallen yogis and their flashy charisma and psychic powers, which can seem quite impressive. If other respected spiritual masters recognize the leader as a spiritual master, this is a promising sign, but still does not insure anything.
BOTTOM-LINE CRITERION: “By their fruits you shall know them.”
If the leader doesn’t have an inspiring, healthy, positively transforming effect on students, promoting qualities of mature and balanced spirituality, the students would do best to leave.
--- ---
Re: Contemplation Seeds From Eckankar by Obi901: 6:26am On Jun 01, 2012
Do not lay claim to salvation as long as gossip still appeals to thee;
So long as you are more disturbed by the faults of others than by thine own;
So long as you can still excuse thine own weakness and shift thine own blame to another,
You have not settled thy problem of little self.
Stranger by the river
by Paul Twitchell
http://www.nairaland.com/533844/contemplation-seeds-eckankar/24#10978192
[ That has been a popular wesbite for eckists in Africa for years - it alwasy shows up ]
--- ---
me (Henosis Sage change)
19/10/2014
On Monday, 29 September 2014 12:38:16 UTC+10, Peetee Aitchei wrote:
1983-08-07 FALSE ACCUSATIONS MADE AGAINST DARWIN GROSS
RE: Also, wasn't Patti also herself removed as secretary?
HS: Had it for a day, replaced by Joan (Cross) Klemp, the lover and gossip
queen of Menlo Park.
RE: Somehow this looks confusing to me.
HS: Not surprised, everyone has been .
Lies and Secrets always do that - confuse people.
That's why so many rely upon such nefarious unconscionable tactics.
IT WORKS .... for when the real facts come out, no one can believe it.
The LIES have so taken hold, the sides were chosen 3 decades ago, and that becomes entrenched
into peoples Mental processes .... memories get re-programmed, true facts get ejected from
the memory banks, and the cognitive dissonance subsides, people get comfortable in the their
mental/emotional positions, and later call that the "whole truth" when it ain't.
[ It may necessarily be a "conspiracy" no matter how much it looks like it -
- for ~99% of the time it is simply HUMAN NATURE at work Being HUman ... ]
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/ihCJto3V_Mc/85GDppcJNnkJ
--- ---
HS:
> Wallace was/is also a classic gossip an expert in the spreading of poison by
> use of their the evil tongue - just like Matt here.
>
> I doubt he would be welcome in any eckist's home across Australia & NZ today.
>
> He also claimed to have been under the guidance of Rebazar tarzs, and assumed
> he would always have the protection of the mahanta and spirit. Not so.
>
> Claims that RT walked into his bedroom one morning and he hid under the covers
> until he was gone. Yes, Matt is referring to that Wallace.
>
KINPA:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I have referred to NO Wallace anywhere in the world. YOU did that! What's wrong? Memory doesn't work that far??
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/B4w2xt4Izas/QDSuMywkCgAJ
[ Tsk tsk ... my memory is fine - it is Kinpa who forgot that HE mentioned some specific
"gossip" about me that could have ONLY come from M.W. - who was known to have already said
the exact same DISTORTED untruth before - in his efforts to undermine me, my friendships
and reputation. Deja Vu? LOL - it also clarified precisely the ":games" that Kinpa was up
here, and the kind of things and values that were FEEDING HIS OBSESSION. ]
What I said above isn't "gossip" it's an APPROPRIATE WARNING to any with ears that hear.
What MW told others and/or Kinpa was NOT TRUE ... I know, and I only I could know. MW
did not listen to what I said, nor remember it correctly -- that's why DOCUMENTED FACTS are
always 1000% factually better than someone's "anecdotal report" hey Etznabbie ?????
*twinkle*
--- ---
alt.religion.eckankar ›
1981 to Eternity - KLEMPANKAR versus DARWIN GROSS
EXTRACTS
Fact is, Patti only knew Twitchell for the last 3 years of his life, and only 2 years
of that was close contact. Gail only knew Twitchell from age 19 for just on 9 years.
Neither really KNEW him, what they saw was they got. But it was never the WHOLE TRUTH.
But when Paul said something, they hung on very single word and swallowed it WHOLE.
Rationalization is an amazing thing in action. So is cognitive dissonance and the power
of impassioned BELIEF. Especially when you are in love with a person. Helen Baird and
many others had the same issues here. They were all *enamored* with the Twitchell
Charms. He was the Rooster and they were the Hens in the Chicken Coop. God bless them
all. Darwin wasn't the only one to be foolish and gullible see?
So over the years both disappeared after the connections were broken with the
Organisation under the care and control of Klemp. Don't be confused here, this
information is NOT about Darwin was OK and blame free. He did have his ethical issues,
no doubt about that. But who doesn't? It's all depends on the specifics. Don't believe
the Gossip though, it's a dead end deal. The only thing that counts is credible evidence
and nuanced investigations of connecting the important dots BEFORE arriving at what
one might believe is the "truth".
Few can do this, for gossip, especially when given out by those seen as "authority"
figures with Status in the eyes of others. Is so much easier, isn't it? I have none.
I have nothing to gain or and nothing to lose in this game. Nothing! Beware of those
who do have huge *investment* in keeping the real truth untold and their BELIEF Supreme.
PLUS
Darwin Gross as President held all the Powers invested in that position by the ECKANKAR
Board of Trustees alone. Klemp had none. Skelskey had none.
Darwin Gross was rightfully employed by the Board of Trustees, he was not employed by
Klemp. Klemp was NOT his direct superior, the Board of Trustees were as a WHOLE. That
is a Legal Fact too!
And yet Klemp was the head of a covert, possibly criminal, Conspiracy against Darwin
Gross in 1983. The man had absolutely no idea what he was doing, such was the extent
of his incompetency as a Board Member and then living ECK Master, plus his
psychologically immature, unbalanced and extremely Paranoid state. That was no doubt
fed by listening to months of Office GOSSIP, the Evil Tongue, coming to him from
sources like Mrs Joan Cross and Mrs Patti Simpson-Rivinus too!
Now, Patti Simpson acted in another Conspiratorial role claiming she represented all
the then 8th Initiates of Eckankar, when really it was only four of 6 all up.
On or about the 23rd July 1983 Patti Simpson wrote a letter to Klemp DEMANDING with
"THREAT of reprisals" the immediate removal of Darwin Gross as President of Eckankar.
This now appears to be directly connected back to the production of the Letters to
Gail Vol III book in June 1983. That book was supervised by Darwin personally and the
main Editor was his secretary Bernadette Burlin.
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/5RX0ILPeN0Q/RfT6WNmyj6UJ
[ Now the above is tricky business because it can so easily be seen as "gossip" and some
wild uneducated uninformed "opinionated BS" - Yet opinions about my research and the quality of my "analysis" in coming to me OPINIONS about what went down - are but "opinions of no value" UNLESS OR UNTIL ANY CRITICS HAVE ACTUALLY SEEN AND ABSORBED ALL THE MATERIAL THAT
I HAVE over a very long period of time --- My writings such as above is no different than approach that most "investigative journalists" take .... I am simply more outspoken about it, that's all.
The other matter is that I am still willing and able to learn NEW information that I do not know as yet and willing to ADJUST MY CONCLUSIONS AND OPINIONS ACCORDINGLY -- IOW anyone can show me I am wwrong and unlik DOUG MARMAN and Karold Klemp I am happy as a pig in mud to change my mind - and CORRECT THE PUBLIC RECORD ALL BY MYSELF - i don't need to be sued -- just GIVE ME THE SOURCE MATERIAL so I can see it hear it for myself - as I trust no one else to do it for me.
Like every other ECKIst I was "screwed around by everyone in and out of Eckankar for 20 years before I gave up listening to anyone else's OPINION of what the history was or wasn't.
IOW I actually practiced many of the things that TWITCHELL actually taught - both psychologically and psychically and spiritually ... and made up my own mind about what happened and why. People can disagree and I don;t care ... until they can actually convince me properly where and why I am "wrong" or off base.
When fools like Kinpa come at me without even getting RIGHT what it is I actually "believe"
and have personally experienced myself, and imho KNOW about stuff, then it's a total waste of
time ... screaming at me to 17 months or 17 years will make a dint.
And again the above is NOT Gossip, it's simple self-defense against FALSE ACCUSATIONS AND LIES BEING TOLD ABOUT ME -- I know what I know and believe that "idiot" Kinpa creep does not. ]
SAVVY???
--- --- ---
alt.religion.eckankar ›
Goldsmith and The Box
Suddenly the box was the important aspect not the original "ideas" he had collected from all these other writers teachers books paths etc .... nor his own real life experiences of ups and downs ... if you didn't have rt appearing and giving to you when walking the beach front, there must be something wrong with you, not doing ur SE's or being influenced by the Kal or worse an knowing agent of the Kal to undermine the the box and the great leader, and thus were a danger to all of the box and then the paranoia and "gossip" really kicks in among the group.
Klemp has called that "cleaning out the weeds from the garden of eck" - i think he's mad saying shit like that.
or belittling people publicly in talks (not by name but who would he spoke of them if they heard his comments) who were so off the rails they imagined they'd been made the next lem and had to go to Chanhassen and discuss the hand over with Klemp ... like they're like that because the stuff fed to them about that box ....
or as one woman told her own story that a hi/resa told her parents that she had seriously evil past lives and they needed to get rid of her, so that night she was shipped off to her grandmothers and practically disowned by her parents as being of the kal and irredeemably evil.
and people like QUOC believed they had this special protection of the lem, and therefore they just knew what was happening wasn't some mental problem but astral entities burrowing into his head, and astral entities swearing at him one minute and telling him he's the real lem but he knows they are lying .. and why didn't you heal me of this issue LEM 1 year later??? you must be a fraud .... but still the guy has these things happening but believes he's not crazy/ill and in need of help.
this kinds of things are not kept a record of by local satsang societies .. they only ever send in the good news of how many turned up today to hear about the box ....
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/l0vfAwWNjvg/WgIt2YdSiVIJ
--- ---
Carly
01/10/2001
Well, when someone in Eckankar makes posts about Eckankar, they belong in a
Satsang group. Yet here you are demanding answers that no one else
apparently is allowed to speak about.
Double standard again. Do you expect someone to answer your questions just
because you ask them? Are you of the opinion that this is a question and
answer forum? WRONG!
Your questions belong in the National Enquirer. You would make a very good
gossip columnist and just about as accurate a reporter as anyone working for
a gossip seeking agenda.
"vahana" <vahana...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:9p832...@drn.newsguy.com...
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/bjupOdgotGQ/s2SHmYd9O0oJ
[ There is some value in what Carly says here. I know myself that Colleen did cross the
unfounded unconnected Gossip line a few times .. but she meant well. Still it was wrong
how she went aboutit all, especially as she was a trained professional Psychologist in
practice.
Carly has her own issues, and that is ASSUMING what she believes was CORRECT and the
"national enquirer" news reports MUST all be wrong. But carly here simply another VICTIM of
others lies and distortions going all the way to Twitchell. It's not her fault iow - and
no Eckist should be condemned or ABUSED for believing the lies they have been fed - or
for passionately defending them - but it IS a fine line to watch. And don't I know it
from direct personal experience on both sides of that fence. LOL ]
--- ---
Like who would berate a teenager becasue at some point that had believed in Santa Claus and the easter bunny???
It's just not right to be such a jerk about it all.
On the other hand, from where I sit there are people Like Marman, who refuse
to even LOOK AT ANYTHING properly -- and when a few things are placed under
their noses that totally wipes decades of previous "beliefs" being wrong
they deny the import, and say it makes no difference, will do nothing about it,
even though what they received MONEY and KUDOS for is actually FALSE and
provably so.
I have little respect for people who literally refuse to face up to their
own responsibilities of being a part, albeit naive or gullible in the past,
in putting out the falsehoods - then do a Pontius Pilate over it all .... and
(shrug)
People, ALL people, past and present ECKists alike do actually have a RIGHT
TO KNOW the facts as they are ... and be allowed the FREEDOM OF SOUL and LIFE
to then make their own personal choices.
This is what Klemp has never done .. and this is what Marman's approach has
been for over 5 YEARS now ... a deadly silence.
Blaming ONLY Twitchell for all this "falsehoods" and the absence of true
knowledge today is NOT an acceptable nor ethical option.
It's also called Karma ... it will bite and will bite hard - individually
and collectively as the decades and (future lives) unfold.
About all Marman ever had, besides the facts presented by Lane, was "gossip".
Personal "beliefs" and "opinions" as well as intentional "cover-ups" and lying
by remaining SILENT.
Just because it came from Gail or Patti's or others mouths makes no difference.
Gossip = Gossip
THE END
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