Interesting hot gossip re: Paul and Sant Mat
Marek Gold
It appears that a local auyervedic Doctor, Jason Chandler, had met Paul on
several occasion... all through happenstance.
He is a Tibetan who was living in India, and travelled a great deal. He had
met Paul on a long haul flight, and later Paul had taken him to a group
initiation he performed in LA (So it is confirmed that Paul did do Group
Initiations in the early stages)
This fellow is not a member of Eckankar, even though he teaches a lot about
the Light and Sound. What is really interesting is that the last time he met
Paul was at Delhi Airport sometime in 1970-71... Paul explained that he was
going to speak to some people at a local Satsang (Not specific) where he was
discussing his use of some of their material in his published works.
Obviously, this is simply a conversation, and not actual evidence, but to
his recollection Paul had no issue at all with the plagiarism question, and
expressed to the fellow that the works he used were in the spiritual domain,
in his opinion, and thus open for reinterpretation and use... However, he
was meeting with the local head of a Spiritual Group to discuss this.
Apparently letters that were speaking of legal action were actioned by this
group (I can only presume Sant Mat) and he was going there specifically to
discuss this issue.
This is the first I have ever heard of anything like this, and the man had
absolutely no connection with Eckankar. The conversation came about because
one of his students (A friend of mine) was studying with him, and started
talking about his constant references to Light and Sound. He brought up the
meetings with Paul Twitchell in this dialogue.
Fascinating, I thought... If this is true, then it seems Paul dealt directly
with the issue when it was raised.
Love
Michael
Marek Gold
Love
Michael
--
Marek Gold, MCSE, MCP+I
remove nospam from email address to reply
"Marek Gold" <ma...@webspirit.com> wrote in message
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SAMOREZ
>Paul was at Delhi Airport sometime in 1970-71... Paul explained that he was
>going to speak to some people at a local Satsang (Not specific) where he was
>discussing his use of some of their material in his published works.
Nice anecdote. When in 1971 did Paul die? I forget. This meeting was in the
physical body, right? :)
As I was the Area Rep for Eckankar in San Diego during this time and very
interested in the comings and goings of Paul, one would think I would have
known Paul was in India.
I mean, Patti Simpson and I talked frequently and I' m sure she would have
mentioned something as exciting as this. Colleen, do you remember Paul ever
going to India?
Michael, do you think Harold could travel to India without his top people
knowing about it?
Food for thought.
Not A Chela
Jan4litsnd
>
>Well... tonight I had a very interesting discussion.
>
>It appears that a local auyervedic Doctor, Jason Chandler, had met Paul on
>several occasion... all through happenstance.
>
>He is a Tibetan who was living in India, and travelled a great deal. He had
>met Paul on a long haul flight, and later Paul had taken him to a group
>initiation he performed in LA (So it is confirmed that Paul did do Group
>Initiations in the early stages)
JAN responds:
Not a confirmation at all. Someone who was not a member of Eckankar and never
a member of Eckankar with perhaps a faulty idea, faulty memory, or faulty sense
of hindsight, of what it was he was attending. Perhaps it was a group meeting
of some other sort if there is any truth to this tale. Whoever heard of Paul
initiating someone he just met? someone who was not a member? someone who had
not studied the ECK teachings for a period of time? or if he was simply a
bystander, whoever heard of Paul allowing bystanders to initiation? hmmmm.
MICHAEL wrote:
>
>This fellow is not a member of Eckankar, even though he teaches a lot about
>the Light and Sound. What is really interesting is that the last time he met
>Paul was at Delhi Airport sometime in 1970-71... Paul explained that he was
>going to speak to some people at a local Satsang (Not specific) where he was
>discussing his use of some of their material in his published works.
>
>Obviously, this is simply a conversation, and not actual evidence, but to
>his recollection Paul had no issue at all with the plagiarism question, and
>expressed to the fellow that the works he used were in the spiritual domain,
>in his opinion, and thus open for reinterpretation and use... However, he
>was meeting with the local head of a Spiritual Group to discuss this.
>
>Apparently letters that were speaking of legal action were actioned by this
>group (I can only presume Sant Mat) and he was going there specifically to
>discuss this issue.
>
>This is the first I have ever heard of anything like this, and the man had
>absolutely no connection with Eckankar. The conversation came about because
>one of his students (A friend of mine) was studying with him, and started
>talking about his constant references to Light and Sound. He brought up the
>meetings with Paul Twitchell in this dialogue.
JAN writes:
Hearsay; uncorroborated interpretations of someone who was not an ECKist? or
more balarney of a.r.e.?
MICHAEL wrote:
>Fascinating, I thought... If this is true, then it seems Paul dealt directly
>with the issue when it was raised.
>
>Love
>
>Michael
>
>
JAN writes:
Paul knew what had to be done and so he fulfilled his mission. Paul did a
fantastic job of gathering together teachings, from his research of the inner,
as well as outer teachings that needed to be reinterpreted and made available
to many such as myself who probably could not have gotten the outer teachings
any other way. I'm eternally grateful for the tremendous undertaking and effort
it took, and sacrifice of himself to do so.
Love,
Jan
Colleen Russell
Twitchell did come and speak at our satsang class in Studio City in 1969 or
early 1970 though.
--
Colleen
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/execkankar
"SAMOREZ" <sam...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020103113726...@mb-cf.aol.com...
Colleen Russell
Did you ever hear of Paul telling an intelligent, successful chiropractor,
Dr. Lorraine Bonte', that she didn't need eckankar?
We were all quite surprised...since this seemed so out of character with
Paul and his teaching. But a lot of things were out of character with Paul.
He had extreme aspects to his personality, from what I've experienced.
--
Colleen
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/execkankar
"Jan4litsnd" <jan4l...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020103121950...@mb-cf.aol.com...
jcarlton
"Marek Gold" <ma...@webspirit.com> wrote in message
news:3c3454c6$0$4096$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
Joe
Fascinating.
Tell us more about Jim Peebles, O reliable source of info.
Sharon2000
This sounds like another "eck myth in the making" -- an example of another
one which was quickly retracted when challenged is posted at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eckankartruth/files - I think it's
"rebbud.txt"
I'd like to see some of the former members from back then go over the list
of places where Twitch claimed to have given talks in the back of "Compiled
Writings" and comment on it. Sounds like a bunch of bullshit to me! When
you look at the times involved -- okay, remember that story I've posted, I
think from "Difficulties of Becoming LEM" or something, where the Wrath of
THE ECK destroyed a credit card company for daring to demand payment from
Godman, well...I'm pretty sure he'd written about treating some people to a
trip to Washington or possibly Oregon, and the card company failed to put
this on time payments. Now...this was just a domestic trip! How did he
afford all those trips to Europe? Also, he claimed that his cult was "big"
among European intellectuals, etc., but I really doubt this...I think he
thought he could suck in more Americans by trying to impress them. And I
daresay what he said about his face being his credit card in fancy little
European restaurants was nonsense too...I've posted the quote...he said
they recognized him & sent Gail the bills! <ggg>
Let's face it, Twitch lied so much it's not even funny. And we have seen
how the eckthugs here carry on the tradition he started! Klemp keeps it
going, too.
Sharon
--
FOR MORE INFORMATION ABOUT ECKANKAR, SEE:
Zs Chela
> Tell us more about Jim Peebles, O reliable source of info.
Jim Peebles was a member of Eckankar attending a Baptist College in
Southern California. He took a class from a fundamentalist Baptist
professor active in the right wing Christian anti-cult movement. This
professor is known for his extensive bashing of the Jehovah's Witness
religion. After consulting with David Lane, an operative for Charan
Singh, student Jim Peebles wrote a paper for this class that was
libelous of Eckankar. The same professor took Jim Peebles paper and
distributed it to an anti-cult group. He also freely gave a copy to
an ECKist thinking that this ECKist was a Christian member of the same
anti-cult group. Eckankar sued the college and the professor to
prevent additional releases of the libelous paper. In doing so, they
had to also include the paper's original author, Jim Peebles, as an
accessory. I understand that the suit was dropped. David Lane
distorts this case by only referring to the poor student and
neglecting to mention the crusading professor, the partisan college,
the secretive fundamentalist anti-cult cult and his own instructions
from Charan Singh. He tries to paint this falsely as an assault upon
a poor student. It was not.
neuralsurfer
Lane replies:
I think you have a few facts incorrect here.
1. Peebles NEVER took a class with Ed Gruss.
So why not retract your mistaken notion?
2. Peebles was a current member of Eckankar when he wrote the paper.
He only went back to attending his church AFTER he had
questions/doubts about Eckankar. Of course, Eckankar suing him for 2.5
million didn't help matters much.
3. You mention the same professor and yet you don't know what you are
talking about. Peebles wrote the paper for Happ's class, not Gruss'.
How about a retraction?
4. Charan operative? I wasn't initiated until after i wrote the
Making.
5. Own instructions for Charan? Do you make this stuff up....? It is
pretty funny.
You are wrong.
So change your story.
Michael
> >Paul was at Delhi Airport sometime in 1970-71... Paul explained that he was
> >going to speak to some people at a local Satsang (Not specific) where he
was
> >discussing his use of some of their material in his published works.
>
> Nice anecdote. When in 1971 did Paul die? I forget. This meeting was in the
> physical body, right? :)
I really do not know the dates... This is an old Hindi Doctor, and they are
not all that specific with these things. That's what I thought, for the
record, but next time I catch up with him, I will ask further. A very
interesting man, I might add... But as he explains it, he met Paul in the
physical, yes.
>
> As I was the Area Rep for Eckankar in San Diego during this time and very
> interested in the comings and goings of Paul, one would think I would have
> known Paul was in India.
> I mean, Patti Simpson and I talked frequently and I' m sure she would have
> mentioned something as exciting as this. Colleen, do you remember Paul ever
> going to India?
> Michael, do you think Harold could travel to India without his top people
> knowing about it?
Nope... not for a minute... That is what I found so intriguing about the
story. This fellow had no particular axe to grind, however...
And of course, he might be just pranking ... Those old Easterners love to do
this. But he was not particularly aware (On surface appearances) of any of the
issues of Eckankar, so I must say, unqualified as it all is... it is sort of
intriguing.
As you say, if nothing else a good story.
>
> Food for thought.
>
> Not A Chela
Yes you are.... just not a chela of Eckankar <G>
Love
Michael
>
Michael
a chance meeting with Paul Twitchell, lie when the word Eckankar is mentioned?
Curious
For the record... I have no idea if this is a reliable account, but it is a
good story...
Love
Michael
"Sharon2000" <bright...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:20020103162342.626$C...@newsreader.com...
Zs Chela
Correction: Peebles did not write the paper for the Baptist College
anti-cult fanatic. He gave the paper to the Baptist College anti-cult
fanatic after being converted to fundamentalist Christianity. So the
anti-cult fantatic professor had even less reason to have a copy of
the libelous paper. Then the Baptist College anti-cult fanatic
professor gave the libelous paper to the anti-cult cult that David
Lane was in bed with. ANd that was when the anti-cult cult published
the libel that started all the trouble.
But this also clears up another of David Lane's lies. Peebles was not
an active member of Eckankar when his name was included along with the
Baptist College and the anti-cult professor. He was a converted
fundamentalist Christian, according to David Lane.
Notice also that Lane did not contradict the main point of my message,
that Peebles was not the main target of the lawsuit. He was only an
afterthought. The main subject of the lawsuit was the Baptist College
and the anti-cult fantatic professor, who had very deep pockets and
were not so innocent.
Sorry if I got my facts mixed up.
A Chela
Michael
> >
> >Well... tonight I had a very interesting discussion.
> >
> >It appears that a local auyervedic Doctor, Jason Chandler, had met Paul on
> >several occasion... all through happenstance.
> >
> >He is a Tibetan who was living in India, and travelled a great deal. He had
> >met Paul on a long haul flight, and later Paul had taken him to a group
> >initiation he performed in LA (So it is confirmed that Paul did do Group
> >Initiations in the early stages)
>
>
> JAN responds:
> Not a confirmation at all. Someone who was not a member of Eckankar and
never
> a member of Eckankar with perhaps a faulty idea, faulty memory, or faulty
sense
> of hindsight, of what it was he was attending. Perhaps it was a group
meeting
> of some other sort if there is any truth to this tale. Whoever heard of Paul
> initiating someone he just met? someone who was not a member? someone who
had
> not studied the ECK teachings for a period of time? or if he was simply a
> bystander, whoever heard of Paul allowing bystanders to initiation? hmmmm.
He is a rather special person... From the same tribe group as Rebazar (Amdo
Tribe) ... But Paul 'specifically' invited him to be present during a group
initiation, and he stayed and cooked a meal for everyone after this. This is a
highly intellegent man we are talking about, and a rather brilliant
physician... But, I expect to meet him this Sunday and will ask some
questions.
Jan4litsnd
>"Jan4litsnd" <jan4l...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20020103121950...@mb-cf.aol.com...
>> MICHAEL wrote:
>> >
>> >Well... tonight I had a very interesting discussion.
>> >
>> >It appears that a local auyervedic Doctor, Jason Chandler, had met Paul on
>> >several occasion... all through happenstance.
>> >
>> >He is a Tibetan who was living in India, and travelled a great deal. He
>had
>> >met Paul on a long haul flight, and later Paul had taken him to a group
>> >initiation he performed in LA (So it is confirmed that Paul did do Group
>> >Initiations in the early stages)
>>
>>
>> JAN responds:
>> Not a confirmation at all. Someone who was not a member of Eckankar and
>never
>> a member of Eckankar with perhaps a faulty idea, faulty memory, or faulty
>sense
>> of hindsight, of what it was he was attending. Perhaps it was a group
>meeting
>> of some other sort if there is any truth to this tale. Whoever heard of
>Paul
>> initiating someone he just met? someone who was not a member? someone who
>had
>> not studied the ECK teachings for a period of time? or if he was simply a
>> bystander, whoever heard of Paul allowing bystanders to initiation? hmmmm.
MICHAEL wrote:
>
>He is a rather special person... From the same tribe group as Rebazar (Amdo
>Tribe) ... But Paul 'specifically' invited him to be present during a group
>initiation, and he stayed and cooked a meal for everyone after this. This is
>a
>highly intellegent man we are talking about, and a rather brilliant
>physician... But, I expect to meet him this Sunday and will ask some
>questions.
>
>
JAN responds:
Okay, Michael, sounds interesting. I'll keep an open mind. It was just that
word, "confirmed". I tend to take most things written in here with a grain of
salt. It's a bit like the eye-witness reports one hears about so frequently.
Three eye witnesses frequently see three different things.
I'm afraid I've become a bit jaded since hanging out in a.r.e so long. <g> I
do have to watch that and learn not to be so. It's very possible Paul had some
group initiations in the beginning that none of us ever heard of before. Maybe
he was still experimenting a bit. I'll wait to hear more from you.
This may sound off the subject. Some people close to me left Eckankar a couple
of years ago after listening to some in their local satsang class who had gone
off into their own thing. A group of them attended the afternoon seminars from
time to time of a lady who is an ex-Eckist and teaches about the Light and
Sound, and reveres and teaches about Rebazar Tarzs, as well as loves the books
by Paul Twitchell. She seemed to want everything to stay the same as when Paul
taught us. She is a knowledgable lady, nice in every way, too. She charges for
the seminars, of course. We are constantly hearing from many sources all around
us of their ideas and perceptions. We are all free to explore in whatever way
that suits us, of course.
I've become skeptical in many ways...but not skeptical about Eckankar and the
Eck Masters, as I do believe my own experiences.
Love,
Jan
Sam
Jan4litsnd wrote in message <20020104153329...@mb-ms.aol.com>...
Jan, some of my thoughts today, maybe they can serve food for thought to
others here...
Personally, I think skepticism is a healthy response and can serve to bring
more growth and understanding if one is open to such. This, I think, is the
key to being open-minded, the catalyst for nurturing the desire to have
one's own inner experiences with the Light & Sound, which may very well be
different than another person's. This is the beauty of our creator, who /
which has given us so many variables to arrive at the most basic realities.
There are so many different ideas and views about the spiritual life that it
seems almost foolish (I think) to debate Paul Twitchell's history and
intent. Regarding the "Spiritual life", often this term is used in the
context of "with or without," as if one could separate that which is the
spiritual life and what is not. As I understand reality, everybody is on the
spiritual path in their own unique way, it's just that we use different
language to describe it.
In a local writers magazine a writer made a comment about what appears to an
unfair dismissal of a director of our writers guild:
When those who sit in judgement say, "I've heard enough," after listening to
only one side of any issue or presume to know what the accused would say in
his defense, they deal unfairly with a stacked deck. With such deplorable
measures it is easy to denounce anyone. Author and respected clergyman
Thomas Fuller put it best: "Justice will not condemn even the devil himself
wrongly."
Cheers
Sam
Joe
Once again, it's just another of The Walleroo's bullshit stories.
"Colleen Russell" <coll...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message news:<a124kl$fnv$1...@slb1.atl.mindspring.net>...
lalaleel...@yahoo.com
>
> A Chela
No, you're not. You're just sorry you got caught. Just like you're
sorry we know ZsChela is you, Steve Runtsfelt (even thought you lied
and said you werent't).
Book banning and murder Steve? Have you thought about professional
help?
Vatti
Colleen Russell
but our perception to meaningful experiences changes over time -- as mine
did following a real test of Soul.
I just think that when we try to make our own religions from our beliefs,
and try to influence others to "follow our way," we've arrived at another
playing field altogether.
--
Colleen
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/execkankar
"Jan4litsnd" <jan4l...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020104153329...@mb-ms.aol.com...
Jan4litsnd
JAN:
Yes, food for thought...I agree with what you've said about skepticism, and
that we all have different experiences, and about life being spiritual. All is
the spiritual life, everyone is on the spiritual path. Paul Twitchell helped me
to realize that life is spiritual. Even the worst parts of life are Spirit at
work.
Yesterday, my brother-in-law was thrown by a horse, and had some broken bones,
surgery, screws and a plate put in. And we had a lovely evening at the movies
with our daughter. The dichotomy of that touched me as I thought about him. We
come to a.r.e. and hear what sounds like wrath and fighting...and I really
don't know why. What kind of emotions are being played out here?
There's so much just to be thankful for; that we are here in this country with
our freedoms, that we are healthy, that we have shelter and food and warmth and
more. I don't take that lightly. It may not always be the case. Just saw a CNN
show about Iraq today, and what the UN sanctions have done to the people and
the children of the country. The last two UN humanitarian representatives
there resigned after one year in protest of what the sanctions have done *to
the children* and to all of the infrastructure. They have no life, except to
try to exist. No more do they prepare and educate themselves to do better, or
to make a better government; they can hardly live. Things got slightly better
with the food for oil program, but not much. Fortunately, the sanctions are
about to expire in May, I believe, and the UN realizing they haven't affected
Saddam Hussein one iota, are considering what they call smart
sanctions...directed to the government, not the people. I am not a "dove" as
they call it, believe me. For instance, believe strongly in stopping terrorism
and that we have no choice but to do so at this point.
It sounds like a bit of war here in a.r.e. at timesl. I really don't know why
we do what we do to each other, except it is our state of consciousness
showing. And why do people make it a 24/7 hobby to try to change others
religion? Do others know better what works in my life? I think not. It is a
warring universe and cycle we live in.
The movie we saw last night was "A Beautiful Mind" with Russell Crowe. We give
it 4 stars. More to be grateful for when we see what others may have gone
through. But, no one is any different. We've all had those things that are most
difficult to go through at times in our lives and in other lifetimes. It's how
we overcome that's important. It's what we learn. It's when do we find peace
in our heart; an individual endeavor. Only we can do so for ourselves.
Jan
Jan4litsnd
>I agree, Jan, our own experiences are what we can value. It's interesting,
>but our perception to meaningful experiences changes over time -- as mine
>did following a real test of Soul.
>
>I just think that when we try to make our own religions from our beliefs,
>and try to influence others to "follow our way," we've arrived at another
>playing field altogether.
>
>--
>Colleen
>
JAN:
Hi Colleen. There's a religion, a path, a teaching just right for everyone.
We'll never have universal agreement of what is the right religion, what are
right teachings, or what is truth. No one wishes to influence you to "follow
our way". Follow your own way.
We will sometimes talk about Eckankar here in alternate religion Eckankar, as
that was the intent for which it was started by an Eckist. Just because we talk
about our beliefs here or in our books, does not mean you need to listen to us.
Feel free to go elsewhere. Feel free to refrain from reading our books. I was
raised a Christian, but I don't read the Christian Bible, or other religious
texts, as they no longer resonate with my central beliefs and experiences.
Eckankar is called a religion, that's what it needed to be in our complicated
system. Paul Twitchell was a teacher with a message to deliver to me, and it's
been very instructional and helpful and needed. Lots of other people feel the
same way.
Jan