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JFK Assassination Forum Archives -- Misc. Topics Of Interest (Part 110)

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David Von Pein

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Sep 7, 2009, 11:03:33 PM9/7/09
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ARCHIVED JFK ASSASSINATION FORUM POSTS OF INTEREST (PART 110):

======================================================


NOW WE HAVE A KOOK PLACING JFK'S KILLER ON THE SEVENTH FLOOR:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/60db57bfe3547d9f
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/20013a0d5fc3fe0a
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/6a6b14c34bcc980c

VINCE BUGLIOSI AND JIM DiEUGENIO:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/80b93c7080833a0b
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/browse_thread/thread/8dd7b2fa79eb77f3

THE FBI AND THE DEPOSITORY PAPER SAMPLES:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/51a876603ebf7462
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/55ba6e2c7e5fb935
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/8f9b69df1af92e50

HBO MINI-SERIES:
http://www.amazon.com/Tom-Hanks-Mini-series-Reclaiming-History/forum/Fx2TVHW5I0UEY9A/Tx1N142W7RVKS4S/1/ref=cm_cd_et_md_pl?%5Fencoding=UTF8&cdMsgNo=9&asin=0393045250&cdSort=oldest&cdMsgID=MxA9Y2ZPZ6Q04G#MxA9Y2ZPZ6Q04G


CE399 AND THE HSCA:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/6a12005364e4be1b


THE HILARITY OF HEALY:
http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,1123.0.html


ROSTER OF KOOKS:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/7c7b1bc34f481b4e

POTPOURRI:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/browse_thread/thread/f36b46794432ad88
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/d9ac495e2819e04b
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/d5cecc926a60f1a1
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/6636b9bfdb806762
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/89ef50b47f20d6ad
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/7fa6e3c5b229765a
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/82a34a50fd574473
http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,1111.msg15011.html#msg15011


======================================================


David Von Pein

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Sep 8, 2009, 8:12:10 PM9/8/09
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www.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/thread/fc218baf9faa64be


PAT SPEER SAID:

>>> "Although I do agree the head shot came from behind, it has little to do with the credibility of these men. One can not blindly trust them. Period." <<<


DVP SAID:

Instead, we should put our blind faith in an amateur sleuth named
Patrick J. Speer, who tells us that John Kennedy's head was struck by
one bullet that entered and exited in pretty much the same place
(along the side of JFK's head).

And Mr. Speer's expertise that would supercede and negate the final
conclusions of the three autopsy doctors and FOUR different U.S.
Government panels is....what again?

I have a feeling that a lot of CTers truly believe that the following
equation is a valid one:

"A JFK conspiracy theorist" = "An expert on all matters
connected with the JFK medical evidence, entitling the CTer to the
right to completely dismiss the official findings of all four
Government committees, plus Drs. Humes, Boswell, and Finck."

Somebody should spread the word to all conspiracists that the above
equation is a total joke (despite many CTers' apparent firm adherence
to it).

David Von Pein

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Sep 8, 2009, 9:49:19 PM9/8/09
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www.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/thread/fc218baf9faa64be


>>> "I have seen ALL of the material and much better material than you have. We have the BEST forensic pathologists on our side. You have JAMA hacks on your side." <<<


So, per Anthony Marsh, only "hack" doctors were part of ALL FOUR of
the Govt. panels/committees who said that JFK was shot twice and only
twice and only from behind.

SEVENTEEN "hacks", eh Tony?

And not a one of them got a damn thing right, eh?

Oh...my poor bladder (again)!


============================================

A VERY IMPORTANT AUTOPSY X-RAY:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/be46d0872dbcf3c6

THE "BOH" WITNESSES VS. THE AUTOPSY DOCTORS -- WHO'S RIGHT?:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/42a0bbac40f320f5

MORE "BOH" TALK:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/d442d30af4fabdf3
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/a93fbd3eceee9809
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/dd386954cebad312
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/d5856e761c980873
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/0b30dd9469c00f35
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/ccc185e2cdb425e2
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/a94f08867e7542e3
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/c5d68a02c4b61717
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/206d901e1d772b00
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/bd2d6afd533d2c63
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/ed6f679852c2c6b4
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/7abea215a6270e24
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/3068cd0dca637ae6

Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted

David Von Pein

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Sep 12, 2009, 11:27:44 PM9/12/09
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Subject: Re: JFK'S ASSASSINATION: AS IT HAPPENED
Date: 9/12/2009 5:33:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From: "Ted" [full name unknown]
To: David Von Pein

------------------------------

Regardless what postings [you] have on site[,] it doesn't take a
ballistic expert nor physics expert to see that Oswald could not have
fired the 2 entry shots into JFK[,] not from the angle nor height he
was "supposedly" located!

=============================================================

Subject: Re: JFK'S ASSASSINATION: AS IT HAPPENED
Date: 9/12/2009 9:46:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From: David Von Pein
To: "Ted"

------------------------------

Total nonsense. Oswald could easily have done it. And he did.

Case closed.

You've probably been reading too much Lifton (and Groden).

=============================================================

Subject: Re: JFK'S ASSASSINATION: AS IT HAPPENED
Date: 9/12/2009 10:15:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From: "Ted"
To: David Von Pein

------------------------------

I did my own research and it was obvious there were 3 shooters and
Oswald was not one of them[,] as he was in the book depository
"kichen" [sic] sipping on a "COKE" when the shootings occured [sic].
[You] only give one version[,] which is totaly [sic] wrong. Reread my
1st [message] on this and reply if [you are] willing!

=============================================================

Subject: Lee Harvey Oswald's Guilt
Date: 9/12/2009 10:58:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From: David Von Pein
To: "Ted"

------------------------------

Your research sucks. Because Lee Harvey Oswald was on the sixth floor
of the Book Depository firing his rifle at President Kennedy when JFK
was being killed in Dealey Plaza.

Do you think it was just a mere coincidence that OSWALD'S very own
FRESH fingerprints and palmprints were located all over the boxes in
the Sniper's Nest (the exact same tiny area from where the shots were
fired)?

And was it just merely another coincidence that bullet shells from
OSWALD'S rifle (nobody else's) were found in the very same Sniper's
Nest?

And was it another co-inky that OSWALD'S very own rifle (nobody
else's) was also found on that same sixth floor 52 minutes after the
assassination (with OSWALD'S very own prints being found on that
weapon)?*

* = And, no, there was no "Mauser" rifle found on the sixth floor at
all. That's a myth and always was. Deputies Weitzman and Boone have
both gone on record saying they were mistaken about their initial
"Mauser" identification. Conspiracy theorists, naturally, refuse to
accept Weitzman's and Boone's corrections, however. That is why they
(the conspiracy theorists who prop up myths like the "Mauser" story
long after the myth has been destroyed) are known as "kooks".

Was all of that physical stuff (which just screams "LEE OSWALD WAS
HERE!") merely the work of quick-thinking "plotters" who wanted to
frame poor innocent Lee Harvey as their "patsy" for the President's
murder?

To believe that all of that "LHO Did It" stuff was manufactured by
evil conspirators immediately after the shooting is akin to believing
in Superman. In other words--believing in Oswald's innocence regarding
the JFK assassination is just plain silly.

BTW, Oswald had NO "Coke" in his hands when he encountered Officer
Marrion Baker and Roy Truly in the second-floor "lunchroom" (not
"kitchen").

Both Baker and Truly testified that they didn't see ANYTHING in either
of Oswald's hands during the lunchroom encounter. Oswald purchased his
Coke AFTER he was seen by Baker and Truly.

The evidence of Oswald's guilt (in TWO murders, including the killing
of policeman J.D. Tippit) is ten miles deep, and only a total idiot
would have the desire to summarily dismiss all of that evidence in
favor of conspiratorial silliness (as Oliver Stone, Jim Garrison,
Robert Groden, and many others have done since the November 1963
assassination of John F. Kennedy).

I'd advise reading this blog (if you can handle an abundance of
"common sense"):

www.Oswald-Is-Guilty.blogspot.com

Regards,
David Von Pein

=============================================================

aeffects

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Sep 13, 2009, 2:49:02 AM9/13/09
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On Sep 12, 8:27 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:

<snip the nutter-troll nonsense>

no advertising shithead, you know the rules.....

David Von Pein

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Sep 13, 2009, 11:26:24 PM9/13/09
to

www.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/thread/fc218baf9faa64be

>>> "Here's a fun game - list all the Warren Report testimony of the Parkland Doctors, Secret Service agents et. al. who place the exit wound where the HSCA finds it. Hey - NONE." <<<

Doesn't really matter.

Why?

Because there's much BETTER evidence to rely on when trying to figure
out exactly where the large exit wound was located on John F.
Kennedy's head. And that "much better evidence" is (and always has
been) this evidence (especially the X-ray):

http://reclaiming-history.googlegroups.com/web/011b.+JFK+HEAD+X-RAY?gda=kwEx40YAAADaPnAtlvPjxRWfhTgppBLhRQaGldSjaUrZENQ2b421C6PlYm89YSDeyQ8tKODzyAoWKo62F5uyu956xNc8ZALZE-Ea7GxYMt0t6nY0uV5FIQ


http://reclaiming-history.googlegroups.com/web/009a.+JFK+AUTOPSY+PHOTO?gda=bca4rkkAAADaPnAtlvPjxRWfhTgppBLh5xjwI81uRqoBsq4X52j7hPNvIIAY0CJ7zOnGxaYI3eJo1zc_knNaEGu1ktiXWxHJhAioEG5q2hncZWbpWmJ7IQ

"The evidence indicates that the autopsy photographs and X-rays
were taken of President Kennedy at the time of his autopsy and that
they had not been altered in any manner." -- 7 HSCA 41

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol7/html/HSCA_Vol7_0026a.htm


Was the HSCA lying its collective ass off when it said the above words
in Volume #7?

aeffects

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Sep 13, 2009, 11:38:31 PM9/13/09
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On Sep 13, 8:26 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:

...

David, Have you spent the last 5 years talking to yourself? Have you
been answering yourself lately? You know what they say about THAT, eh?

Carry on nutter-troll!

Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted

David Von Pein

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Sep 14, 2009, 12:53:06 AM9/14/09
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RE: The "curtain rods" issue......

Why would Lee Oswald have had any desire at all to put up some curtain
rods in his shoebox-sized room on Beckley Avenue in Oak Cliff in late
November of 1963?

The reason I ask the above question is because it's quite clear from
the testimony of Marina Oswald that LHO had every reason to think that
he might very well be moving out of his Beckley room very soon,
possibly as soon as November 22nd, per Marina's Warren Commission
testimony, with Marina telling the Commission that Lee said to her on
the night of 11/21/63 that he would "rent an apartment in Dallas
tomorrow" if only Marina would agree to come back to Dallas and live
with him again.

So, via such a scenario, why would Lee Oswald be wanting to put up
curtains and/or curtain rods in his tiny Beckley Avenue room (which
was obviously a room that was way too small to accommodate FOUR
people -- Lee, Marina, Rachel, and Junie)?

Oswald's "curtain rods" story was obviously a big fat lie -- and a two-
pronged lie that would provide Lee with a good excuse for going to
Irving on a Thursday night with Buell Wesley Frazier....and an excuse
for the contents of the large paper bag LHO carried with him to work
on Friday morning, November 22nd.

And unless some conspiracy theorists want to pretend that Marina
Oswald was an evil liar too (as some CTers do probably believe, sans
any proof of such a charge), the following 1964 quote from her lips,
in my opinion, drives an additional nail into Lee Harvey Oswald's
"curtain rods" coffin, because of these words -- "If I want to he
would rent an apartment in Dallas tomorrow":

MARINA OSWALD -- "On that day [11/21/63], he [LHO] suggested that we
rent an apartment in Dallas. He said that he was tired of living alone
and perhaps the reason for my being so angry was the fact that we were
not living together. That if I want to he would rent an apartment in
Dallas tomorrow, that he didn't want me to remain with Ruth any
longer, but wanted me to live with him in Dallas."

============================================

MORE "CURTAIN RODS" TALK:

www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/7a460183ae4c6c41

============================================

David Von Pein

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Sep 14, 2009, 10:10:32 PM9/14/09
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www.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/thread/bc79d7a95aa98b54


>>> "I think it was [Buell Wesley] Frazier who said that's exactly what he did [i.e., wrap them in brown paper] when he sold them [curtain rods] at a hardware [store]." <<<


Yes, that's correct. But it should also be noted here, FWIW, that the
curtain rods that were still in Ruth Paine's garage after the
assassination were NOT wrapped in any kind of wrapping paper. However,
Mrs. Paine had in her garage two other types of window shades and/or
"blinds" that WERE wrapped in paper that was somewhat similar to the
brown wrapping paper that was used by Lee Oswald to conceal his rifle.
This information can be found in the very detailed Warren Commission
testimony of Ruth Paine:


ALBERT JENNER -- "It was your impression as you testified last week
that you had some curtain rods on the shelf wrapped in a paper
wrapping?"

RUTH PAINE -- "Well, I testified that."

MR. JENNER -- "That was your impression, was it not?"

MRS. PAINE -- "And as part of the testimony I said they were very
light and might not deserve their own wrapping."

MR. JENNER -- "You did state it was possible they might not be
separately wrapped?"

MRS. PAINE -- "Yes."

MR. JENNER -- "Is there another shelf below the shelf on which you
found the first two packages?"

MRS. PAINE -- "Yes, there is."

MR. JENNER -- "And, Mr. Howlett, that shelf is about how far below the
upper one on which we found the two packages?"

JOHN HOWLETT (SECRET SERVICE AGENT) -- "About 10-1/2 inches."

MR. JENNER -- "Now, we all see, do we not, peeking up what appears to
be a butt end of what we might call a curtain rod, is that correct?"

MRS. PAINE -- "That's correct."

=======================

RELATED TOPIC:

Since I brought up Mrs. Ruth Paine's testimony relating to the various
packages that were found in her garage, I think the following portion
of her testimony is quite interesting (for the reason I mention at the
end of these quotes):

ALBERT JENNER -- "Now, Mrs. Paine, one of the things we said we might
see is a package that was in your garage containing curtain rods."

RUTH PAINE -- "Yes--as you recall."

MR. JENNER -- "You said you would leave that package in precisely the
place wherever it was last week when you were in Washington, D.C., and
have you touched it since you came home?"

MRS. PAINE -- "I have not touched it."

MR. JENNER -- "And is it now in the place it was to the best of your
recollection on November 21, 1963?"

MRS. PAINE -- "Yes. .... It is on a shelf above the workbench." ....
This, to the best of my recollection, contains venetian blinds."

MR. JENNER -- "The witness is now referring to a package which Mr.
Howlett, and I will ask you to measure it in a moment, but which
appears to me to be at most about 28 inches long, maybe 30, and about
6-1/2 inches high and about 6-1/2 inches through. While it is still
wrapped in place, Mr. Howlett, would you measure the package--and it
is a little bit irregular."

JOHN HOWLETT -- "That is 2 feet, 11 inches."

MR. JENNER -- "The package is 2 feet, 11 inches long." ....


[DVP INTERJECTION --- Take note here of Jenner's incorrect (too
short!) estimate of the nearly-three-foot-long package found in Ruth
Paine's garage....and it's an estimate made by Jenner that is very
similar to the estimates made by Buell Wesley Frazier and Linnie Mae
Randle when those two witnesses said that the package carried by Lee
Oswald on the morning of 11/22/63 (which Oswald claimed contained
curtain rods, but which almost certainly contained LHO's rifle) was
about 27 or 28 inches or "about 2 feet" long.

Oswald's rifle package [Commission Exhibit #142] was, in reality, 38
inches long -- which is very close to the length of the 35-inch
package in Mrs. Paine's garage that was incorrectly estimated by
Jenner to be "28 inches long, maybe 30" prior to Howlett measuring the
package.

The main point being, of course, that it's not uncommon for people to
incorrectly estimate the length of innocuous packages that those
people had no real reason to be paying a lot of attention to at the
time they saw such a package (like when Frazier and Randle observed
Oswald's brown paper bag on the morning of November 22, 1963).

Of course, it's quite likely that some conspiracy theorists probably
are of the opinion that Warren Commission Assistant Counsel member
Albert E. Jenner Jr. deliberately underestimated, on the WC record,
the length of the package that was in Mrs. Paine's garage during
Paine's 3/23/64 testimony, in order to highlight how undependable and
non-exacting a casual "eyeball" measurement of a particular object can
be.]

============================================

MORE ABOUT RUTH PAINE'S INTERESTING TESTIMONY BELOW:

www.Ruth-Paine.blogspot.com

============================================

aeffects

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Sep 14, 2009, 11:32:08 PM9/14/09
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On Sep 14, 7:10 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:

<snip the nonsense>

endlessly talking to yourself, endlessly QUOTING yourself, such an ego
such a TROLL...

Carry on now!

Gil Jesus

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Sep 15, 2009, 7:04:42 AM9/15/09
to
Oswald never told any curtain rod story to the police, in fact, he
denied it to police.

The curtain rod story was told to police by Frazier.

As usual, you twist and distort the facts of the case.

Walt

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Sep 15, 2009, 10:23:59 AM9/15/09
to
On Sep 14, 9:10 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> www.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/thread/bc79d...

Nice try Von Pea Brain..... But the "estimates" of length of Linnie
Mae Randle and Buell Frazier were verified by comparing their
estimates against KNOWN dimensions. Randle said that LHO carried the
sack in his right hand with his arm straight down at his side. She
said the bag nearly touched the ground. The distance from LHO's hand
to the ground was about 27 inches. And Buell Frazier showed the FBI
agents how much of the rear seat of his car was covered by the
sack....They measured that distance and found that it was 27 inches.

Oswald made no such claim...LIAR.

David Von Pein

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Sep 15, 2009, 9:41:35 PM9/15/09
to

www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/browse_thread/thread/80359bfd2812ad6c/4a8d6182658ff467?#4a8d6182658ff467


>>> "Oswald never told any curtain rod story to the police, in fact, he denied it to police. The curtain rod story was told to police by Frazier. As usual, you twist and distort the facts of the case." <<<

Gil has done an excellent imitation of James DiEugenio here -- i.e.,
Gil has managed to mangle and distort and misrepresent what I have
said about a particular assassination-related issue in the short space
of just a few words in his post dated 09/15/09 at 7:04 AM EDT.


Maybe Gil and DiEugenio should get together and form a new club -- the
"Let's Lie About Everything David Von Pein Has Ever Said" club. You
can be the secretary, Gil. (You can't be President of that club
though, Gil, because DiEugenio holds that position as of this writing,
and that's because of his unique ability to twist and mangle virtually
everything I have ever said about the JFK case. When Jim retires,
however, Gil Jesus can take over as the club's Grand Poobah and "Chief
Mangler & Liar".)

I want Gil Jesus to come up with just one archived Internet post
authored by DVP (that's me) that even remotely suggests that I think
Oswald, himself, told the police his curtain-rod story.

Gil won't be able to find any such archived Internet post, of course,
because no such post exists, and it never did (not even a deleted one
from the past).

In fact, in this very thread, I have linked to a related "curtain
rods" article that I wrote three years ago, in November 2006. And in
that linked article, I said this:

"Lee lied to the police after his arrest when he told them he
never said anything to Wesley Frazier about curtain rods, and he also
lied when he said he had not carried a bulky package into work with
him on Nov. 22nd. (It's more logical to believe that Frazier was being
truthful in this regard rather than to believe the man who had just
been arrested and wanted to distance himself from that mysterious
brown paper package.)" -- David Von Pein; November 30, 2006


So, just like with Jimmy DiEugenio, I'm forced to take many minutes to
straighten out something that a conspiracy kook has gotten totally
wrong about something I supposedly said (in this 9/15/09 instance,
it's a retard named Gilbert J. Jesus doing the mangling).

It's ridiculous. It's par for the course, that's true enough, but it's
still ridiculous that such constant kook corrections are required in
the first place.

For the latest hilarious example of how James DiEugenio once again
decided to completely mangle and misrepresent something that I said,
go to the 52:35 mark of the following audio link. It's a howl:

www.Box.net/shared/xpbbkge103


STRAIGHTENING OUT DiEUGENIO (YET AGAIN):
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/91586c79ebcd64da


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