A Chronology
Walt
1:00 --- Lee Oswald arrives at his room, and is greeted by his
landlady, Mrs Roberts
1:04 --- Mrs Roberts sees Oswald standing near the curb in front of
the rooming house, after changing his clothes in his room.
1:06 --- About a mile away from the rooming house Helen Markham sees
Tippit shot
1:09 --- Domingo Benavides uses Tippit's police radio to report the
shooting
1:10 --- T F Bowley uses Tippit's police radio to report shooting
1: 12--- Lt Day arrives at the DPD and Hill meets him near the front
door
1:14 --- Ted Callaway uses Tippit's police car radio to report the
shooting and says "THE OFFICER IS DEAD" and says that ambulance was
arriving at that time.
1:14 --- Sgt Gerald Hill hears Ted Callaway's radio transmission
mentioning the dead officer, and decides to go to the scene of the
shooting ( The ONLY radio transmission by a citizen that said the
officer was dead was Callaway's @ 1:14
1:15 --- Ambulance arrives and picks up Tippit for transport to
Methodist Hospital
1: 18 -- Sgt Hill meets ambulance near the intersection of N.Beckley
and Colorado( about 1 1/4 miles from 10th and Patton) transporting
Tippit to Methodist Hospital with Officer's Davenport and Barden
following the ambulance in their police cruiser.
Lee Oswald could not have traveled on foot, the mile, from the rooming
house to 10th and Patton in two minutes. Therefore, Oswald was NOT
the person who shot J.D.Tippit.
Neil Coburn
some personal problems. Neil
Walt
> I see no connection between the two shootings. Tippet was involved in
> some personal problems. Neil
I disagree Neil..... The murder of President Kennedy and the murder
of JD Tippit are connected.
The conspirators set Oswald up to be blamed for both of them..... But
they were pretty sloppy.
They told Oswald to take the rest of the day off and then reported
that he had fled the TSBD after the murder of JFK.
They planned to murder Tippit and blame it on Oswald but they got a
little ahead of themselves and murdered Tippit about ten minutes
earlier than they should have. Oswald was seen in front of his
rooming house at about 1:04, and Tippit was murdered about a mile away
just a couple of mintes later. Oswald simply could not have traveled
from the roominghouse to 10th and Patton in just two minutes.
YoHarvey
Old Walt is right up there with Issac Asimov in the science fiction
department roflmao.
aeffects
must be horrible leading a life with no direction... not even a waste,
this one... :)
YoHarvey
>
> - Show quoted text -
Just one further impromptu, incoherent junkie. Fetch the paper Healy,
Holmes is in the latrine. Latrines are what you know best. K toots?
Neil Coburn
problems that day.He was all over the map.
Neil
Walt
Hey Yoyo.....Try to focus on the subject .....The chronology
- Hide quoted text -
YoHarvey
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Walt? No matter how many times you post it, it's still SCIENCE
FICTION. The handgun Oswald was caught with has been ballistically
tied to the Tippit killing. Hell with the eyewitnesses, pro or con,
science tells us: Oswald shot Tippitt. Case closed.
Walt
No It was not.... FBI ballistic's expert Cunningham said that he
could not obtain two bullets that could be matched and ballistically
traced to that snubnosed.38. Cunniningham said he fired the pistol
dozens of times under carefully controlled labratory conditions but
the pistol was simply unable to produce Two bullets that could be
compared to determine that they had been fired from the same gun.
Cunningham testified to this FACT before the Warren Commission, and
yet you BELIEVE that a bullet that had been fired through a police
jacket and shirt, a package of cigarettes, and into flesh and bone,
could be matched to that revolver. What in the world is wrong with
yer head??
Hell with the eyewitnesses, pro or con,
> science tells us: Oswald shot Tippitt. Case closed.- Hide quoted text -
David Von Pein
My Proposed "LEE HARVEY OSWALD ASSASSINATION TIMELINE"......
(Beginning at lunchtime on November 22, 1963; all times
approximate)......
========================================================
11:45-11:50 AM (Friday, Nov. 22, 1963) -- Bill Shelley sees Lee Harvey
Oswald downstairs on the first floor. ....
MR. BALL -- "On November 22, 1963, the day the President was shot,
when is the last time you saw Oswald?"
MR. SHELLEY -- "It was 10 or 15 minutes before 12."
MR. BALL -- "Where?"
MR. SHELLEY -- "On the first floor over near the telephone.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/shelley2.htm
11:50-11:54 AM -- Oswald goes from the first floor to the sixth floor.
Just a few minutes after getting to the sixth floor, the five other
men who are on the 6th Floor break for lunch and race the two freight
elevators downstairs. Oswald remains on the sixth floor.
11:55 AM -- Charles Givens comes back up to the sixth floor to
retrieve his jacket and cigarettes. He sees Oswald, with clipboard in
hand, on the east end of the floor. Per Givens' testimony, it's during
this "cigarette trip" back up to the sixth floor when Oswald asks
Givens to close the elevator gate and to send the elevator back up to
him. This differs in chronology from the other witnesses who said they
heard Oswald requesting the elevator during the "racing" of the
elevators downstairs...i.e., BEFORE Givens went back up by himself.
In any event, it's fairly certain that (at some point just prior to
12:00) Oswald did ask for an elevator to be returned back up to him on
the sixth floor.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/8823834c81dea1be
It's very likely that no one inside the Book Depository Building saw
Lee Oswald after approx. 11:55 AM on November 22nd, until LHO was next
seen by Marrion Baker at approx. 12:31-12:32 PM on the second floor.
Carolyn Arnold has stated her belief that she saw Oswald in the
lunchroom, eating his lunch, at either 12:15 PM or about 12:25 PM
(over the years, she apparently has used both of those time
estimates).
Now, such an "Oswald sighting" by Arnold at either of those times
still would not give Oswald an alibi for the exact time of the
assassination (12:30). But, it would be hard to believe that LHO would
have been downstairs, casually eating his lunch, just a few minutes
before dashing upstairs to murder the President.
But other witness testimony tends to debunk Carolyn Arnold's "I Saw
LHO In The Lunchroom" account. And, in my view, there's just too much
evidence (overall) that concretely puts Oswald on the 6th Floor during
the approximate timeframe when Arnold claimed he was in the lunchroom.
11:55 AM-12:05 PM (estimated) -- Oswald has the whole sixth floor to
himself. This is just prior to Bonnie Ray Williams coming back up to
the 6th Floor to eat his lunch. It's my belief that Lee Oswald, during
this (approx.) 10-minute time period around noon or shortly after,
probably went to the west end of the sixth floor (where he had his
rifle hidden in the brown bag).
Oswald unwraps the rifle at the west end of the sixth floor and
assembles the rifle at the west end (hence, Arnold Rowland sees a
white man with a rifle at the west end of the building at approx. this
time, maybe a little later, 12:15 or so, but keep in mind the
approximation of all times).
It's quite possible, IMO, that Oswald initially was considering using
the WEST-end window as his shooting window. But, for one reason or
another, he decided that a window on the EAST end of the sixth floor
would better serve his purposes.
Perhaps he was mentally factoring in the angles and trajectories in
his head, and possibly realized that an east-end perch would be a
better one, especially since the Secret Service agents would all have
their backs to him when he began firing, if he decided to wait until
after the cars had turned to Elm/Houston corner....which, IMO, Oswald
definitely had in his mind to do, due to the pre-arranged way the
rifle-rest boxes were constructed (i.e., in a "Rifle Always Pointing
West/Southwest" manner).
It's also possible that, as Oswald mulled over potential shooting
locations, he realized that a goodly number of boxes were already down
on the east end of the 6th Floor, which would make constructing a
makeshift "Nest" all the easier for him.
Now, I cannot fully explain why Oswald wanted to take the empty paper
bag WITH HIM to the east end from the west end via this scenario I'm
laying out here....but I've got to assume (naturally) that he DID do
just that after assembling the rifle on the west end.
Perhaps--just perhaps--Oswald had it in his mind that he would be able
to re-insert the weapon back into that bag and, just maybe, get the
incriminating rifle out of the building the same way he smuggled it
in--in the brown paper package that supposedly contained those never-
found "curtain rods".
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/7a460183ae4c6c41
Yes, that last part is fairly weak...I'll admit that. I don't much
like that idea either. For, Oswald would surely have known that he
wouldn't have the time (or want to take time) to dismantle the rifle
AFTER shooting at the President.
But, then too, who can know what crazy thoughts might be swimming
through the head of a person who is contemplating murdering a U.S.
President from his very own place of employment? That's a difficult
type of mind to thoroughly probe and to figure out....indeed. Wouldn't
you all agree?
12:00-12:05 PM -- Oswald (with his rifle and the paper bag) moves to
the east end of the sixth floor, where Oswald works on constructing
his Sniper's Nest. Now, some of these boxes might have been pretty
close to the SN window already...which, as I mentioned, could have
been a partial factor in Oswald choosing that southeast corner window
to begin with. So, perhaps the building of the "Nest" wasn't as
difficult or as time-consuming as some people seem to think it had to
be.
I really have no idea how long it would have taken Oswald to create
his makeshift Sniper's Nest of book cartons. And nobody else knows for
sure either. This is one of the several "unknowables" surrounding this
case.
But the sum total of "Oswald Was There" evidence tells me that Lee
Oswald (alone) DID construct that Sniper's Nest at some point prior to
Bonnie Ray Williams arriving back up on that sixth floor (or, at least
Oz had ENOUGH of the Nest constructed so that he was able to hide
behind a wall of partially-constructed boxes during Williams brief 5-
to-12-minute stay up on that floor).
12:05-12:15 PM (estimated) -- Oswald can hear Bonnie Ray Williams in
the middle portion of the sixth floor, near the south windows, as
Williams eats his lunch. I think, therefore, it's logical to assume
that Oswald would have been trying to remain extra quiet as he hides
within his "Nest" of boxes (whether the Nest is totally complete or
not, we cannot know; but we do know that some boxes in that southeast
corner are prohibiting Williams from seeing deep into that
corner). ....
"Well, at the time I couldn't see too much of the sixth floor, because
the books at the time were stacked so high. I could see only in the
path that I was standing--as I remember, I could not possibly see
anything to the east side of the building." -- Bonnie Ray Williams
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/williams.htm
But Oswald's rifle was probably already completely assembled when
Williams was on the sixth floor....so there's no need for any noise to
be coming from the metal parts in this "rifle" regard.
And I think it's logical to assume that Oswald was probably getting a
tad anxious, waiting for his prey to turn from Main to Houston...and,
at the same time, wondering if he'll have to abandon his murder
attempt due to Williams' pesky presence on the very same 6th Floor. So
Oswald quietly moves to the window and looks out a couple of times
(per Brennan), but without his rifle in his hands....the rifle is no
doubt resting at Oswald's feet in the SN.
Re. Howard Brennan -- I'm going to have to take issue with Mr.
Brennan's account of seeing Oswald sitting "sideways on the window
sill", however. I'm just doubting that was even physically possible,
given the arrangement of book cartons IN the window itself. And it
doesn't seem likely that Oswald would want to sit up on the sill
anyhow, thereby making himself even MORE visible to anyone outside.
However, as a footnote to my last comments, it's possible (but not
provable by any means) that Oswald had not yet placed the rifle-rest
boxes in the window at the time Brennan said he saw the man (later
IDed by Brennan as Lee Oswald) sitting "sideways on the window sill".
Perhaps Oswald, as alluded to previously, was interrupted (by
Williams' presence) during the construction of his Sniper's Nest (the
timeline was, indeed, a fairly-tight one, granted, between Givens
seeing Oswald at approx. 11:55 and Williams arriving back on the 6th
Floor a very few minutes later...with Williams seeing nobody at all on
the entire sixth floor).
So, Brennan could very well be correct re. the "sideways on the sill"
observation. But I'm going to exercise my proverbial "grain of salt"
option when considering the accuracy of such a "sideways on the sill"
observation.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/brennan.htm
12:10-12:15 PM (estimated) -- Bonnie Ray Williams finishes his
"chicken-on-the-bone" sandwich (~LOL~) and his Dr. Pepper soft drink
and vacates the sixth floor (after Williams heard some activity on the
5th Floor below him). Williams takes an elevator down one flight to
join two other employees on the fifth floor to watch the motorcade.
Lee Oswald now is alone, once again, on the Texas School Book
Depository's sixth floor. He has approximately 15 minutes to wait
until the President will come into his view on the street below him.
During these last few minutes prior to 12:30 PM, it's possible that
Oswald puts some finishing touches on his Sniper's Nest....and/or his
rifle-rest cartons.
Regarding the 5th-Floor witnesses (Harold Norman, James Jarman, and
Bonnie Ray Williams), and what they heard.....
Norman stated positively that he heard three rifle shots being fired
from directly above him. And he told Vincent Bugliosi in 1986 that he
heard precisely three "hulls" (shells) hitting the floor as the
shooting was taking place above him....
BUGLIOSI -- "And by 'hulls', you mean cartridge casings?"
NORMAN -- "Cartridges."
BUGLIOSI -- "How many did you hear falling to the floor?"
NORMAN -- "Three."
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/fa26e26f62263eeb
Now, as far as the 5th-Floor witnesses not specifically hearing any
footsteps from the assassin upstairs just before and just after the
assassination -- I'd ask: What difference does that really make?
Obviously, SOMEBODY was up on that 6th Floor, in that Sniper's Nest,
firing a gun (be it Lee Harvey Oswald or somebody else....SOME HUMAN
BEING WITH TWO FEET was up there with a gun).
So the conspiracy theorists who think it's odd to have Norman, Jarman,
and Williams not hearing the footsteps of Oswald just prior to and
just after 12:30 on November 22nd are not thinking the situation
through logically.
Because somebody was located in that southeast corner of the 6th Floor
at 12:30 (and, naturally, just a little bit PRIOR to 12:30 too)....so
if it wasn't Lee Oswald doing the shooting, then the CTers have to
wonder why the "real killer's" footsteps were not heard by N,J,&W
either. It turns out to be a moot argument from anyone's particular
point-of-view.
POST-SHOOTING CHRONOLOGY......
Lee Oswald is able to perform his deadly deed at 12:30, as he fires
three of his four bullets from his 6th-Floor SN window, killing JFK
with shot #3. I'm guessing that Oswald, too, like the rest of the
world, was very surprised indeed that he had actually been able to
pull off this task in total secrecy from his workplace (not counting
Mr. Brennan outside the building). I'm doubting LHO thought he'd
REALLY get a golden chance to do it.
But, unfortunately, he was given that chance when Williams vacated the
sixth floor....and Oswald was aided further, as it turns out, when no
other employees decided they would use the SIXTH floor as a parade-
watching perch that Friday.
12:30:30 PM -- Lee Harvey Oswald's task is completed. He pauses at the
window for just a moment (per Brennan's account), and then disappears
from Brennan's view.
Oswald, in his haste, leaves the three traceable rifle shells and the
brown paper sack in the Sniper's Nest. He hustles (with rifle in hand,
and with one remaining bullet chambered in his Carcano, if needed) to
the northwest corner of the sixth floor.
It's my personal belief that Oswald (during this trip to the NW
corner) was wiping as many fingerprints off of his Mannlicher-Carcano
rifle as he could in the time allowed. He was very likely (IMO) using
the brown shirt in which he was arrested to perform this print-wiping
task.
Oswald gets to the northwest corner of the building without being seen
by anyone. He notices that neither of the two freight elevators is on
his floor. So he's forced to take the nearby stairs in that NW corner
of the building.
He stashes his rifle between some boxes very close to the stairway.
It's possible that Oswald had PRE-ARRANGED this rifle-stowing location
prior to the assassination. We can never know this for sure, of
course. But I think it's possible.*
* = However, I'll add here my own confusion re. Oswald's seemingly
willy-nilly attitude toward the evidence he was leaving
behind....because, as you'll recall a little bit ago, I postulated
that Oswald might have been of the initial opinion that he'd be able
to slip the rifle (somehow, some way) back into the paper bag and
perhaps get it out of the building in such a manner.
But if he had PRE-arranged a rifle-stashing location near the stairs,
that would mean he probably wasn't thinking of removing the rifle from
the 6th Floor at all. Who can know for sure? No one can. Perhaps
Oswald was thinking along BOTH of those lines.
Here's a possibility to consider as well (re. the rifle) -- If Oswald
had never been given the chance to shoot at the President (and IMO
it's VERY likely that Oswald was thinking that he might very well NOT
have this perfect opportunity to carry out the shooting), it's quite
possible, indeed, that Oswald would have made BOTH of the previously-
mentioned rifle-hiding provisions -- e.g., pre-arranging a place on
the NW side to hide the rifle from view AND having a potential need
for that brown paper bag once again (even after 12:30, given the
possibility he might never fire the weapon at all).
Via the last option, it's likely Oswald would probably still not want
to waltz out the front door of the Depository carrying a fully-
assembled Carcano rifle in full view of many people. (It could look
kinda bad, in a "Maybe That Guy Is Up To No Good With That Rifle The
Same Day The President Has Passed By This Building" sort of fashion.)
So, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that Oswald
could have planned out BOTH of those rifle-stashing options on
November 22.
Granted, in the option where Oswald doesn't fire the gun at all, he
COULD have simply left the bag on the WEST side of the building....and
then casually retrieved it after 12:30. (In such a situation, of
course, no shots would have been fired, and nobody would be rushing
into the building searching desperately for a gunman; hence, Oswald
would not need to be in a really big hurry to gather up the bag.)
Continuing on with Oswald's post-shooting movements......
12:31-12:32 PM -- Oswald travels quickly down to the second floor of
the TSBD via the back stairway. (It's possible that the reason he
ducked off at Floor #2 is because he heard the footsteps of the
approaching Roy Truly and Marrion Baker.)
Oswald is then stopped at gunpoint in the 2nd-Floor lunchroom by
Officer M.L. Baker. LHO is then immediately cleared as an employee and
is let go by Baker.
Oswald is calm, silent, and unflustered during his encounter with
Baker (per Baker's testimony). This reaction, IMO, is much more
indicative of GUILT than with INNOCENCE.
If innocent, isn't it quite likely that Oswald would have been a bit
scared, rattled, and probably would have at least said to Baker, "What
the hell is this?! What's going on?! I didn't do anything! Why are you
stopping me?!"
Oswald, instead, is dead-quiet. Never changing his expression one bit
(per Baker).
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/baker_m1.htm
12:32 PM -- Oswald then buys a soft drink from the soda machine in the
lunchroom, and then strolls casually and unhurriedly toward the stairs
near the 2nd-Floor offices (after having just been cleared as a worker
in the building, thereby probably allowing Oswald to relax a little
bit more at that point in time).
Mrs. Robert A. Reid sees Oswald with a full beverage bottle. She says
to him "The President's been shot". Oswald mumbles something
incoherent and continues toward the front stairs, which lead to the
first-floor TSBD entrance.
12:40 PM -- Oswald boards a bus on Elm Street, east of the TSBD. He
stays on the bus about 4 minutes, gets a transfer from driver Cecil
McWatters, and then exits the bus. Mary Bledsoe positively identifies
Oswald as having been on board McWatters' bus on 11/22/63.
Oswald, in an out-of-character move (given his usual tightfisted
habits), spends 95 cents ($1.00 with the whopping tip given to driver
William Whaley) on a cab ride from the Greyhound bus station to the
general area of his Oak Cliff roominghouse.
Oswald has Whaley take him PAST the roominghouse at 1026 North Beckley
Avenue (probably so that Lee can check to see if any cops are near his
home at the time), with Oswald getting out of Whaley's cab at the
intersection of Neely and Beckley, three blocks beyond his rented
room.
Oswald then backtracks the three blocks and rushes into his
roominghouse at approx. 12:59-1:00 PM.
Housekeeper Earlene Roberts said the following (during a re-enactment
that was done for the 1964 movie "Four Days In November").....
"I got word about the President being killed...and he {LHO} come in,
in a hurry. I said 'Ooh, you're in a hurry'. He never parted his
lips....he went to his room, got a short coat to put on, and then he
walked on out to the bus stop....and that's the last I saw of him."
1:14-1:15 PM -- Oswald shoots and kills Dallas policeman J.D. Tippit
on Tenth Street (0.85 of a mile from the roominghouse Oswald just left
a short time earlier).
Multiple witnesses verify it was Lee Harvey Oswald who killed Officer
Tippit. Bullet shells from Oswald's revolver ("to the exclusion") were
recovered by THREE different witnesses at the Tippit murder scene.
THE TIPPIT MURDER AND THE HILARIOUS ATTEMPTS TO DEFEND MR. OSWALD:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/85fe573544d89f90
Oswald is next seen by Johnny Brewer at approx. 1:35 to 1:40 PM.
Brewer notices Oswald's "funny" and "scared" look as LHO lurks in the
entrance of Brewer's shoe store.
Brewer follows Oswald a short distance up Jefferson Boulevard and
watches as Oswald slips into the Texas Theater (without paying).
Brewer confers with Texas Theater employee Julia Postal about the man
who just entered the theater. Postal calls the police.
The following passage can be found in Julia Postal's WC testimony
transcript....
"So, well, I called the police, and he wanted to know why I thought it
was their man, and I said, "Well, I didn't know," and he said, "Well,
it fits the description," and I have not---I said I hadn't heard the
description. All I know is, "This man is running from them for some
reason"."
1:50 PM -- Lee Harvey Oswald is apprehended in the Texas Theater.
Oswald pulls his revolver on Officer McDonald and a wild fight ensues.
While inside the theater, Oswald is heard to say, "It's all over now"
and/or "This is it".
After his arrest, Oswald repeatedly lies to the authorities about
important issues connected to the investigation of the murders of
President Kennedy and Officer Tippit....
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/ea04b9e6141f0098
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/beb8390c3526124d
======================
The above "Oswald timeline" is not perfect. It has some weaknesses,
yes. The "Rowland" timeline isn't a perfect dead-on match. And the
"Bonnie Ray Williams" timeframe isn't rock-solid either.
But those witnesses were not staring at their watches when they
observed the things they observed and did the things they did on
11/22/63. And I'd say, generally-speaking (give or take a very few
minutes in "real time"), that those witness accounts of the events of
that November day work out pretty close to corroborating the general
"Oswald timeline" I've laid out in this post.
The long and the short of the matter is this --- Just about every last
thing Lee Harvey Oswald did following the assassination of John F.
Kennedy indicates a GUILTY LEE HARVEY OSWALD....
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/8845d85a86407d31
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/182cecc7c4e37bb2
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/aaeb4a1389e69938
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/4a6b3390021d657c
David Von Pein
April 2007
Walt
> www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/browse_thread/thread/e29090ae...
>
> My Proposed "LEE HARVEY OSWALD ASSASSINATION TIMELINE"......
Are you afraid to focus on the period from 1:00pm to 1:30pm??
Do you think you're fooling anybody by attempting to refocus the
chronology of this thread??
Oswald was STANDING on near the curb in from of the rooming house at
1026 N Beckley just TWO minutes before Helen Markham saw a man shoot
officer J.D. Tippit.
> ...
>
> read more »
aeffects
you moron, little bordie tell you Oswald bought that pistol..... take
a walk on the wildside dipshit.....
David Von Pein
>>> "Are you afraid to focus on the period from 1:00pm to 1:30pm?" <<<
Certainly not, Mr. Kook. I deal with that half-hour of Oz's movements
in my fully-reasonable timeline/chronology. (Naturally, the kooks will
ignore the common-sense nature of this timeline. But, that's to be
expected, since I'm dealing with kooks daily.)
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/3a3d654f3c43ed16
More details? Okay:
Approx. 1:00 PM on 11/22/63 (give or take) --- Oswald (everybody's
favorite "Patsy For Every Murder Committed On 11/22/63 In Dallas, Tx.)
hurriedly enters his roominghouse at 1026 N. Beckley Ave., and is
observed being "in a hurry" by housekeeper E. Roberts.
Approx. 1:01 (give or take, but there's no way Oz was in that room
more than 1 minute, IMO; YMMV) --- Oswald, still "in a hurry" leaves
1026 Beckley while zipping up a jacket--a jacket he was not wearing
when he entered the residence.
Approx. 1:14 (give or take) --- Oswald encounters Officer J.D. Tippit
on 10th St.; Oswald takes out his revolver and shoots Tippit four
times, killing the officer. Oswald flees the scene down Patton Avenue,
then turns onto Jefferson Blvd.
Approx. 1:35-1:36 --- Oswald is seen by Johnny Brewer in the entrance
to the Hardy's Shoe Store on Jefferson. Brewer can tell the man (whom
he later IDs as being LHO) is acting "funny", "scared", and has been
"running". Brewer follows the man (LHO) toward the Texas
Theater...where the man (LHO) enters without buying the cheap under-$1
ticket.
Approx. 1:50 --- Oswald resists arrest inside the Texas Theater and a
wild struggle for Oz's revolver ensues between Oz-man and the
arresting policemen. Oswald shouts out "This is it!" and/or "It's all
over now!" and is shoved into a police car, from where he immediately
begins to tell his wide assortment of lies to the authorities -- e.g.,
"Policeman been killed?" and "Why are you treating me this way? The
only thing I have done is carry a gun."
Ballistics evidence proves LHO murdered Tippit.
Eyewitness accounts prove that LHO murdered Tippit.
Oswald's own actions and LIES after his arrest provide circumstantial
evidence to show that LHO murdered Tippit.
So, there you have it -- a cop killer who is made into a completely-
innocent "patsy" by the CT-Kooks of Planet Earth. Go figure.
I wonder how the kooks "explain away" Oswald's BEING IN THE VERY SAME
GENERAL AREA of the shooting--on Jefferson Blvd., acting "funny",
"scared", and "running" from something--if Oswald is completely
innocent.
Prob'ly just a co-inky though. Lee was nervous and scared about going
to see Van Heflin at the movies. After all, Lee always did have kind
of a crush on ol' Van H.
Bud
Walt wrote:
> On 8 Mar, 18:20, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> > www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/browse_thread/thread/e29090ae...
> >
> > My Proposed "LEE HARVEY OSWALD ASSASSINATION TIMELINE"......
>
> Are you afraid to focus on the period from 1:00pm to 1:30pm??
>
> Do you think you're fooling anybody by attempting to refocus the
> chronology of this thread??
Try this one, idiot.
http://www.jdtippit.com/html/timetable_nov.htm
> Oswald was STANDING on near the curb in from of the rooming house at
> 1026 N Beckley just TWO minutes before Helen Markham saw a man shoot
> officer J.D. Tippit.
But you can establish neither of those times as accurate. Better,
established times are available, which you ignore.
Here is the man Oswald killed....
http://www.geocities.com/remember_wwii/JDTippit.html
> > read more �
Walt
> >>> "Are you afraid to focus on the period from 1:00pm to 1:30pm?" <<<
>
> Certainly not, Mr. Kook. I deal with that half-hour of Oz's movements
> in my fully-reasonable timeline/chronology. (Naturally, the kooks will
> ignore the common-sense nature of this timeline. But, that's to be
> expected, since I'm dealing with kooks daily.)
>
> www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/3a3d654f3c43ed16
>
> More details? Okay:
>
> Approx. 1:00 PM on 11/22/63 (give or take) --- Oswald (everybody's
> favorite "Patsy For Every Murder Committed On 11/22/63 In Dallas, Tx.)
> hurriedly enters his roominghouse at 1026 N. Beckley Ave., and is
> observed being "in a hurry" by housekeeper E. Roberts.
Good--- You've got one correct.. Oswald entered his room at about 1:00
pm
>
> Approx. 1:01 (give or take, but there's no way Oz was in that room
> more than 1 minute, IMO; YMMV) --- Oswald, still "in a hurry" leaves
> 1026 Beckley while zipping up a jacket--a jacket he was not wearing
> when he entered the residence.
Not good.... You've got this one wrong. Mrs Roberts said he was in
his room for a few minutes(3 or 4). While Oswald was in his room
changing his clothes a police car pulled up to the curb in front of
the rooming house and the driver tooted the horn twice. She then saw
him emerge from his room while donning a white zipper front jacket.
She saw him standing near the curb in front of the rooming house at
about 1:04 pm.
>
> Approx. 1:14 (give or take) --- Oswald encounters Officer J.D. Tippit
> on 10th St.; Oswald takes out his revolver and shoots Tippit four
> times, killing the officer. Oswald flees the scene down Patton Avenue,
> then turns onto Jefferson Blvd.
Wat we hav heah is a quantum leap in chronology and logic..... or an
outright lie.
At approximately 1:06 Helen Markham saw a man shoot officer J.D.
Tippit when he stepped from his squad car.
At approximately 1:08 or 1:09 Domongo Benavides tried to use the radio
in Tippits police car to notify the dispatcher that a policeman had
been shot. Benavides said nothing about the officer being DEAD.
At approximately 1:10 TF Bowley contacted the police dispatcher using
the radio in Tippit's car. TF Bowley said nothing about the officer
being DEAD.
At 1:12 Lt Day arrives at the TSBD and is met by Sgt Gerald Hill near
the front door of the TSBD. Hill is standing near a police motocycle
parked near the front of the TSBD "about a minute later" when he hears
a citizen using a police radio tell the dispatcher that an officer has
been shot and "I THINK HE'S DEAD. Hill decides to go to the scene of
the shooting.
At approximately 1:13 or 1:14 Ted Callaway arrives at the scene of the
shooting, he picks up Tippit's radio and reports the shooting. He
tells the dispatcher that an officer has been shot and "I THINK HE'S
DEAD. The dispatcher says that they "have already been notified, and
stay off the air". Callaway sees ambulance arriving.
At approximately 1:15 Dudley Hughes ambulance picks up Tippit and
heads for Methodist hospital.
At approximately 1:17 or 1:18 Sgt Gerald Hill meets the ambulance
carrying Tippit to Methodist hospital, near the intersection of N.
Beckley and Colorado, about 1 1/4 miles from the scene of the
shooting.
That Von Pea Brain, is the actual chronology.... You got ONE point
correct... Oswald arrived at his room at about 1:00pm... But from that
point on you were forced to lie to protect yer ego.
Walt
> Walt wrote:
> > On 8 Mar, 18:20, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> > >www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/browse_thread/thread/e29090ae...
>
> > > My Proposed "LEE HARVEY OSWALD ASSASSINATION TIMELINE"......
>
> > Are you afraid to focus on the period from 1:00pm to 1:30pm??
>
> > Do you think you're fooling anybody by attempting to refocus the
> > chronology of this thread??
>
> Try this one, idiot.
>
> http://www.jdtippit.com/html/timetable_nov.htm
Idiot??... You post a false chronology and you call me an "idiot"??
Just answer this ONE SIMPLE QUESTION.... What time did Helen Markham
say that she saw Tippit shot, in her affidavit??
Betcha ain't got the guts to answer that question.
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
Walt
> On 9 Mar, 05:05, Bud <sirsl...@fast.net> wrote:
>
> > Walt wrote:
> > > On 8 Mar, 18:20, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > >www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/browse_thread/thread/e29090ae...
>
> > > > My Proposed "LEE HARVEY OSWALD ASSASSINATION TIMELINE"......
>
> > > Are you afraid to focus on the period from 1:00pm to 1:30pm??
>
> > > Do you think you're fooling anybody by attempting to refocus the
> > > chronology of this thread??
>
> > Try this one, idiot.
>
> > http://www.jdtippit.com/html/timetable_nov.htm
>
> Idiot??... You post a false chronology and you call me an "idiot"??
>
> Just answer this ONE SIMPLE QUESTION.... What time did Helen Markham
> say that she saw Tippit shot, in her affidavit??
>
> Betcha ain't got the guts to answer that question.
I'll rephrase the question... When Helen Markham wrote her affidavit,
shortly after the shooting, about what she'd seen happen near the
intersection of 10 & Patton streets as she was on her way to catch the
1:10 bus. In the opening sentence of her affidavit, what time did she
say that she saw the police officer shot??
Gil Jesus
> Lee Oswald could not have traveled on foot, the mile, from the
> rooming
> house to 10th and Patton in two minutes. �Therefore, Oswald was NOT
> the person who shot J.D.Tippit.
Timing of Oswald's "escape" PROVES he was not at the Tippit murder
scene
Bud
Walt wrote:
> On 9 Mar, 05:05, Bud <sirsl...@fast.net> wrote:
> > Walt wrote:
> > > On 8 Mar, 18:20, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > >www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/browse_thread/thread/e29090ae...
> >
> > > > My Proposed "LEE HARVEY OSWALD ASSASSINATION TIMELINE"......
> >
> > > Are you afraid to focus on the period from 1:00pm to 1:30pm??
> >
> > > Do you think you're fooling anybody by attempting to refocus the
> > > chronology of this thread??
> >
> > Try this one, idiot.
> >
> > http://www.jdtippit.com/html/timetable_nov.htm
>
> Idiot??... You post a false chronology and you call me an "idiot"??
I posted a more accurate chronology, and called you an idiot.
> Just answer this ONE SIMPLE QUESTION.... What time did Helen Markham
> say that she saw Tippit shot, in her affidavit??
Being a kook, you always ask the wrong questions. The correct
question is "What time was it when Mrs Markham saw Tippit shot?"
> Betcha ain't got the guts to answer that question.
How did she determine it to be that time, Walt?
Bud
Walt wrote:
> On 9 Mar, 14:43, Walt <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote:
> > On 9 Mar, 05:05, Bud <sirsl...@fast.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Walt wrote:
> > > > On 8 Mar, 18:20, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > > >www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/browse_thread/thread/e29090ae...
> >
> > > > > My Proposed "LEE HARVEY OSWALD ASSASSINATION TIMELINE"......
> >
> > > > Are you afraid to focus on the period from 1:00pm to 1:30pm??
> >
> > > > Do you think you're fooling anybody by attempting to refocus the
> > > > chronology of this thread??
> >
> > > Try this one, idiot.
> >
> > > http://www.jdtippit.com/html/timetable_nov.htm
> >
> > Idiot??... You post a false chronology and you call me an "idiot"??
> >
> > Just answer this ONE SIMPLE QUESTION.... What time did Helen Markham
> > say that she saw Tippit shot, in her affidavit??
> >
> > Betcha ain't got the guts to answer that question.
>
> I'll rephrase the question... When Helen Markham wrote her affidavit,
> shortly after the shooting, about what she'd seen happen near the
> intersection of 10 & Patton streets as she was on her way to catch the
> 1:10 bus.
She said she caught her bus at 1:15, idiot. When are you kooks
going to establish when the bus she regularily took stopped at her
stop?
> In the opening sentence of her affidavit, what time did she
> say that she saw the police officer shot??
The same time she told the WC she left her house, 1:06.
tomnln
Walt
I knew you lacked the guts and integrity to answer honestly..... Do
you want to try to rectify your evasive answer.
Here's the question again...In the opening sentence of her affidavit,
what time did she say that she saw the police officer shot??
This is really a very easy question...All you need to do is copy the
first sentence of her affidavit, and post it.
Are you to gutless and dishonest to do that?
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
Bud
I like my answer. Can you understand it?
> Here's the question again...In the opening sentence of her affidavit,
> what time did she say that she saw the police officer shot??
The police officer she said was shot by Oswald? I gave that time.
It is also the time she told the WC she left her house.
> This is really a very easy question...All you need to do is copy the
> first sentence of her affidavit, and post it.
>
> Are you to gutless and dishonest to do that?
In what meaningful way would that establish when Oswald shot
Tippit?
Herbert Blenner
Helen Markham stated that at approximately 1:06 she saw a squad car
stop and a young man lean against the passenger side.
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/04/0444-001.gif
T. F. Bowley read 1:10 pm from his watch as he approached a police
officer lying near the front of a squad car.
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/04/0476-001.gif
Officers R. A. Davenport and W. R. Bardin over typed the time at which
Doctor Richard Liquori pronounced officer Tippit dead. The later time
is 1:19 pm.
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/00/0083-001.gif
Herbert
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
muc...@gmail.com
Actually 1:15.
Walt
> Walt wrote:
> > On 9 Mar, 05:05, Bud <sirsl...@fast.net> wrote:
> > > Walt wrote:
> > > > On 8 Mar, 18:20, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > > >www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/browse_thread/thread/e29090ae...
>
> > > > > My Proposed "LEE HARVEY OSWALD ASSASSINATION TIMELINE"......
>
> > > > Are you afraid to focus on the period from 1:00pm to 1:30pm??
>
> > > > Do you think you're fooling anybody by attempting to refocus the
> > > > chronology of this thread??
>
> > > Try this one, idiot.
>
> > > http://www.jdtippit.com/html/timetable_nov.htm
>
> > Idiot??... You post a false chronology and you call me an "idiot"??
>
I posted a more accurate chronology, and called you an idiot.
A more accurate chronology???
Let's check that statement.....Here's just one entry on that
chronology that you posted.
1:14:00 p.m. Helen Markham reaches the corner of Tenth and Patton and
waits for traffic to pass, including Tippit's squad car headed east.
She sees Tippit stop alongside Oswald, who is walking east.
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
Walt
That's correct...About 1:06 Helen Markham saw Tippit stop his car and
talk to a pedestrian... The pedestrian then shot Tippit.
>
> T. F. Bowley read 1:10 pm from his watch as he approached a police
> officer lying near the front of a squad car.
>
> http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/04/0476-001.gif
That's correct TF Bowley arrived on the scene and used Tippit's radio
to notify the dispatcher.
>
> Officers R. A. Davenport and W. R. Bardin over typed the time at which
> Doctor Richard Liquori pronounced officer Tippit dead. The later time
> is 1:19 pm.
>
> http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/00/0083-001.gif
That's not correct. The time tat Davenport and Barden typed in their
report was 1:00 pm which was later altered to read 1:15
Ben Holmes
Herbert Blenner says...
>
>On Mar 9, 8:13=A0pm, Bud <sirsl...@fast.net> wrote:
>> Walt wrote:
>> > On 9 Mar, 14:43, Walt <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote:
>> > > On 9 Mar, 05:05, Bud <sirsl...@fast.net> wrote:
>>
>> > > > Walt wrote:
>> > > > > On 8 Mar, 18:20, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
>90ae...
>>
>> > > > > > My Proposed "LEE HARVEY OSWALD ASSASSINATION TIMELINE"......
>>
>> > > > > Are you afraid to focus on the period from 1:00pm to 1:30pm??
>>
>> > > > > Do you think you're fooling anybody by attempting to refocus the
>> > > > > chronology of this thread??
>>
>>
>> > > > =A0 =A0http://www.jdtippit.com/html/timetable_nov.htm
>>
>> > > Idiot??... =A0You post a false chronology and you call me an "idiot"??=
>
>>
>> > > Just answer this ONE SIMPLE QUESTION.... What time did Helen Markham
>> > > say that she saw Tippit shot, in her affidavit??
>>
>> > > Betcha ain't got the guts to answer that question.
>>
>
>> > shortly after the shooting, about what she'd seen happen near the
>> > intersection of 10 & Patton streets as she was on her way to catch the
>> > 1:10 bus.
>>
>> going to establish when the bus she regularily took stopped at her
>> stop?
>>
>> > say that she saw the police officer shot??
>>
>
>Helen Markham stated that at approximately 1:06 she saw a squad car
>stop and a young man lean against the passenger side.
>
>http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/04/0444-001.gif
>
>T. F. Bowley read 1:10 pm from his watch as he approached a police
>officer lying near the front of a squad car.
>
>http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/04/0476-001.gif
>
>Officers R. A. Davenport and W. R. Bardin over typed the time at which
>Doctor Richard Liquori pronounced officer Tippit dead. The later time
>is 1:19 pm.
You're as bad as the troll, Buddy.
It's clearly 1:15 - not "1:19", what would make you try to change a 5 into a 9?
>http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/00/0083-001.gif
>
>Herbert
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> > > > > Oswald was STANDING on near the curb in from of the rooming house =
>at
>> > > > > 1026 N Beckley just TWO minutes before Helen Markham saw a man sho=
>ot
>> > > > > officer J.D. Tippit.
>>
>> > > > =A0 =A0 But you can establish neither of those times as accurate. Be=
>tter,
>> > > > established times are available, which you ignore.
>>
>> > > > =A0 =A0Here is the man Oswald killed....
>>
>> > > > =A0 =A0http://www.geocities.com/remember_wwii/JDTippit.html
>>
>> > > > > > (Beginning at lunchtime on November 22, 1963; all times
>> > > > > > approximate)......
>>
>> > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>>
>> > > > > > 11:45-11:50 AM (Friday, Nov. 22, 1963) -- Bill Shelley sees Lee =
>Harvey
>> > > > > > Oswald downstairs on the first floor. ....
>>
>> > > > > > MR. BALL -- "On November 22, 1963, the day the President was sho=
>t,
>> > > > > > when is the last time you saw Oswald?"
>>
>> > > > > > MR. SHELLEY -- "It was 10 or 15 minutes before 12."
>>
>> > > > > > MR. BALL -- "Where?"
>>
>> > > > > > MR. SHELLEY -- "On the first floor over near the telephone.
>>
>> > > > > >http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/shelley2.htm
>>
>> > > > > > 11:50-11:54 AM -- Oswald goes from the first floor to the sixth =
>floor.
>> > > > > > Just a few minutes after getting to the sixth floor, the five ot=
>her
>> > > > > > men who are on the 6th Floor break for lunch and race the two fr=
>eight
>> > > > > > elevators downstairs. Oswald remains on the sixth floor.
>>
>> > > > > > 11:55 AM -- Charles Givens comes back up to the sixth floor to
>> > > > > > retrieve his jacket and cigarettes. He sees Oswald, with clipboa=
>rd in
>> > > > > > hand, on the east end of the floor. Per Givens' testimony, it's =
>during
>> > > > > > this "cigarette trip" back up to the sixth floor when Oswald ask=
>s
>> > > > > > Givens to close the elevator gate and to send the elevator back =
>up to
>> > > > > > him. This differs in chronology from the other witnesses who sai=
>d they
>> > > > > > heard Oswald requesting the elevator during the "racing" of the
>> > > > > > elevators downstairs...i.e., BEFORE Givens went back up by himse=
>lf.
>>
>> > > > > > In any event, it's fairly certain that (at some point just prior=
> to
>> > > > > > 12:00) Oswald did ask for an elevator to be returned back up to =
>him on
>> > > > > > the sixth floor.
>>
>> > > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/8823834c81d=
>ea1be
>>
>> > > > > > It's very likely that no one inside the Book Depository Building=
> saw
>> > > > > > Lee Oswald after approx. 11:55 AM on November 22nd, until LHO wa=
>s next
>> > > > > > seen by Marrion Baker at approx. 12:31-12:32 PM on the second fl=
>oor.
>>
>> > > > > > Carolyn Arnold has stated her belief that she saw Oswald in the
>> > > > > > lunchroom, eating his lunch, at either 12:15 PM or about 12:25 P=
>M
>> > > > > > (over the years, she apparently has used both of those time
>> > > > > > estimates).
>>
>> > > > > > Now, such an "Oswald sighting" by Arnold at either of those time=
>s
>> > > > > > still would not give Oswald an alibi for the exact time of the
>> > > > > > assassination (12:30). But, it would be hard to believe that LHO=
> would
>> > > > > > have been downstairs, casually eating his lunch, just a few minu=
>tes
>> > > > > > before dashing upstairs to murder the President.
>>
>> > > > > > But other witness testimony tends to debunk Carolyn Arnold's "I =
>Saw
>> > > > > > LHO In The Lunchroom" account. And, in my view, there's just too=
> much
>> > > > > > evidence (overall) that concretely puts Oswald on the 6th Floor =
>during
>> > > > > > the approximate timeframe when Arnold claimed he was in the lunc=
>hroom.
>>
>> > > > > > 11:55 AM-12:05 PM (estimated) -- Oswald has the whole sixth floo=
>r to
>> > > > > > himself. This is just prior to Bonnie Ray Williams coming back u=
>p to
>> > > > > > the 6th Floor to eat his lunch. It's my belief that Lee Oswald, =
>during
>> > > > > > this (approx.) 10-minute time period around noon or shortly afte=
>r,
>> > > > > > probably went to the west end of the sixth floor (where he had h=
>is
>> > > > > > rifle hidden in the brown bag).
>>
>> > > > > > Oswald unwraps the rifle at the west end of the sixth floor and
>> > > > > > assembles the rifle at the west end (hence, Arnold Rowland sees =
>a
>> > > > > > white man with a rifle at the west end of the building at approx=
>. this
>> > > > > > time, maybe a little later, 12:15 or so, but keep in mind the
>> > > > > > approximation of all times).
>>
>> > > > > > It's quite possible, IMO, that Oswald initially was considering =
>using
>> > > > > > the WEST-end window as his shooting window. But, for one reason =
>or
>> > > > > > another, he decided that a window on the EAST end of the sixth f=
>loor
>> > > > > > would better serve his purposes.
>>
>> > > > > > Perhaps he was mentally factoring in the angles and trajectories=
> in
>> > > > > > his head, and possibly realized that an east-end perch would be =
>a
>> > > > > > better one, especially since the Secret Service agents would all=
> have
>> > > > > > their backs to him when he began firing, if he decided to wait u=
>ntil
>> > > > > > after the cars had turned to Elm/Houston corner....which, IMO, O=
>swald
>> > > > > > definitely had in his mind to do, due to the pre-arranged way th=
>e
>> > > > > > rifle-rest boxes were constructed (i.e., in a "Rifle Always Poin=
>ting
>> > > > > > West/Southwest" manner).
>>
>> > > > > > It's also possible that, as Oswald mulled over potential shootin=
>g
>> > > > > > locations, he realized that a goodly number of boxes were alread=
>y down
>> > > > > > on the east end of the 6th Floor, which would make constructing =
>a
>> > > > > > makeshift "Nest" all the easier for him.
>>
>> > > > > > Now, I cannot fully explain why Oswald wanted to take the empty =
>paper
>> > > > > > bag WITH HIM to the east end from the west end via this scenario=
> I'm
>> > > > > > laying out here....but I've got to assume (naturally) that he DI=
>D do
>> > > > > > just that after assembling the rifle on the west end.
>>
>> > > > > > Perhaps--just perhaps--Oswald had it in his mind that he would b=
>e able
>> > > > > > to re-insert the weapon back into that bag and, just maybe, get =
>the
>> > > > > > incriminating rifle out of the building the same way he smuggled=
> it
>> > > > > > in--in the brown paper package that supposedly contained those n=
>ever-
>> > > > > > found "curtain rods".
>>
>> > > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/7a460183ae4=
>c6c41
>>
>> > > > > > Yes, that last part is fairly weak...I'll admit that. I don't mu=
>ch
>> > > > > > like that idea either. For, Oswald would surely have known that =
>he
>> > > > > > wouldn't have the time (or want to take time) to dismantle the r=
>ifle
>> > > > > > AFTER shooting at the President.
>>
>> > > > > > But, then too, who can know what crazy thoughts might be swimmin=
>g
>> > > > > > through the head of a person who is contemplating murdering a U.=
>S.
>> > > > > > President from his very own place of employment? That's a diffic=
>ult
>> > > > > > type of mind to thoroughly probe and to figure out....indeed. Wo=
>uldn't
>> > > > > > you all agree?
>>
>> > > > > > 12:00-12:05 PM -- Oswald (with his rifle and the paper bag) move=
>s to
>> > > > > > the east end of the sixth floor, where Oswald works on construct=
>ing
>> > > > > > his Sniper's Nest. Now, some of these boxes might have been pret=
>ty
>> > > > > > close to the SN window already...which, as I mentioned, could ha=
>ve
>> > > > > > been a partial factor in Oswald choosing that southeast corner w=
>indow
>> > > > > > to begin with. So, perhaps the building of the "Nest" wasn't as
>> > > > > > difficult or as time-consuming as some people seem to think it h=
>ad to
>> > > > > > be.
>>
>> > > > > > I really have no idea how long it would have taken Oswald to cre=
>ate
>> > > > > > his makeshift Sniper's Nest of book cartons. And nobody else kno=
>ws for
>> > > > > > sure either. This is one of the several "unknowables" surroundin=
>g this
>> > > > > > case.
>>
>> > > > > > But the sum total of "Oswald Was There" evidence tells me that L=
>ee
>> > > > > > Oswald (alone) DID construct that Sniper's Nest at some point pr=
>ior to
>> > > > > > Bonnie Ray Williams arriving back up on that sixth floor (or, at=
> least
>> > > > > > Oz had ENOUGH of the Nest constructed so that he was able to hid=
>e
>> > > > > > behind a wall of partially-constructed boxes during Williams bri=
>ef 5-
>> > > > > > to-12-minute stay up on that floor).
>>
>> > > > > > 12:05-12:15 PM (estimated) -- Oswald can hear Bonnie Ray William=
>s in
>> > > > > > the middle portion of the sixth floor, near the south windows, a=
>s
>> > > > > > Williams eats his lunch. I think, therefore, it's logical to ass=
>ume
>> > > > > > that Oswald would have been trying to remain extra quiet as he h=
>ides
>> > > > > > within his "Nest" of boxes (whether the Nest is totally complete=
> or
>> > > > > > not, we cannot know; but we do know that some boxes
>>
>> ...
>>
>> read more =BB- Hide quoted text -
Herbert Blenner
> In article <7b5b3f10-a48b-46b4-acbe-357eee972...@u72g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
Six in the morning makes me lazy. So I read the time without
crosscorrelating the over written time with various combinations of
characters from the same document.
This exercise shows the waste of my haste. The latest possible time
would be 1: 15 pm.
http://mysite.verizon.net/a1eah71/temps/crosscorrelation.jpg
Alignment of 9 with the time produces a loop not contained in the over
written time. By this criteria I now reject the possibility of 1: 19
pm as the latest time.
Herbert
>
>
>
> >http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/00/0083-001.gif
>
> >Herbert
>
> >> > > > > Oswald was STANDING on near the curb in from of the rooming house =
> >at
> >> > > > > 1026 N Beckley just TWO minutes before Helen Markham saw a man sho=
> >ot
> >> > > > > officer J.D. Tippit.
>
> >> > > > =A0 =A0 But you can establish neither of those times as accurate. Be=
> >tter,
> >> > > > established times are available, which you ignore.
>
> >> > > > =A0 =A0Here is the man Oswald killed....
>
> >> > > > =A0 =A0http://www.geocities.com/remember_wwii/JDTippit.html
>
> >> > > > > > (Beginning at lunchtime on November 22, 1963; all times
> >> > > > > > approximate)......
>
> >> > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
Walt
admit
he made an error. No big deal, we CT's all make errors, but the
LNer's are perfect and never lie or make mistakes.
The important thing about Davenport and Barden's report is the fact
that they followed the ambulance to Methodist hospital and helped
carry Tippit into the emergency room. They had nothing to do for
several minutes while they watch the doctors and nurses attempts to
revive Tippit. Just standing there, doing nothing, how many times do
you think they would have looked at their watches or the clock on the
wall?? There's no doubt they knew what time they were there at
Methodist, and when Dr. Liquori informed them that Tippit had been
killed instantly by the bullet through his head, they surmised that
Tippit was killed at about 1:00pm, and that's the time they wrote in
their report.
Under normal circumstance and routine report filing, their entry would
have been good enough, and it would not have needed to be altered. It
wasn't until the Warren Commission reconstructed the chronology of
Oswald's movements that it became clear that Oswald could not have
traveled the mile from his rooming house to the site where Tippit was
shot in just two minutes, that they decided to alter documents and the
transcripts of police radio broadcasts. But by then they official
time of Death for Tippit had been recorded as 1:15 ( The time that the
ambulance arrived at Methodist) Dr Liquori knew that Tippit was DOA
so he used that time as the official time of death. Obviously Tippit
had been shot about ten minutes prior to his arrival at Methodist, so
the time that Helen Markham entered in her affidavit is very close to
the actual time of the shooting. Markham wrote that affidavit
immediately after the shooting BEFORE the police had a chance to tell
her what time they wanted her to say she had seen the shooting.
Walt
> Walt wrote:
> > On 9 Mar, 19:13, Bud <sirsl...@fast.net> wrote:
> > > Walt wrote:
> > > > On 9 Mar, 14:43, Walt <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote:
> > > > > On 9 Mar, 05:05, Bud <sirsl...@fast.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > Walt wrote:
> > > > > > > On 8 Mar, 18:20, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > >www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/browse_thread/thread/e29090ae...
>
> > > > > > > > My Proposed "LEE HARVEY OSWALD ASSASSINATION TIMELINE"......
>
> > > > > > > Are you afraid to focus on the period from 1:00pm to 1:30pm??
>
> > > > > > > Do you think you're fooling anybody by attempting to refocus the
Ya just can't be honest can you??
> > > > > > > > him. This differs inchronologyfrom the other witnesses who said they
Bud
Walt wrote:
> On 9 Mar, 19:10, Bud <sirsl...@fast.net> wrote:
> > Walt wrote:
> > > On 9 Mar, 05:05, Bud <sirsl...@fast.net> wrote:
> > > > Walt wrote:
> > > > > On 8 Mar, 18:20, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > > > >www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/browse_thread/thread/e29090ae...
> >
> > > > > > My Proposed "LEE HARVEY OSWALD ASSASSINATION TIMELINE"......
> >
> > > > > Are you afraid to focus on the period from 1:00pm to 1:30pm??
> >
> > > > > Do you think you're fooling anybody by attempting to refocus the
> > > > > chronology of this thread??
> >
> > > > � �Try this one, idiot.
> >
> > > > � �http://www.jdtippit.com/html/timetable_nov.htm
> >
> > > Idiot??... �You post a false chronology and you call me an "idiot"??
> >
> � �I posted a more accurate chronology, and called you an idiot.
>
> A more accurate chronology???
>
> Let's check that statement.....Here's just one entry on that
> chronology that you posted.
>
> 1:14:00 p.m. Helen Markham reaches the corner of Tenth and Patton and
> waits for traffic to pass, including Tippit's squad car headed east.
> She sees Tippit stop alongside Oswald, who is walking east.
>
> Just answer this ONE SIMPLE QUESTION.... What time did Helen Markham
> say that she saw Tippit shot, in her affidavit??
I didn`t say that Markum was accurate, I said the chronology was.
> > � �Being a kook, you always ask the wrong questions. The correct
Bud
He made basically the same mistake I did, and gave basically the
same explaination. You keep inventing new ways to show you are an
idiot.
> No big deal, we CT's all make errors, but the
> LNer's are perfect and never lie or make mistakes.
Agreed.
> The important thing about Davenport and Barden's report is the fact
> that they followed the ambulance to Methodist hospital and helped
> carry Tippit into the emergency room. They had nothing to do for
> several minutes while they watch the doctors and nurses attempts to
> revive Tippit. Just standing there, doing nothing, how many times do
> you think they would have looked at their watches or the clock on the
> wall?? There's no doubt they knew what time they were there at
> Methodist, and when Dr. Liquori informed them that Tippit had been
> killed instantly by the bullet through his head,
What time did Liquori write as the time of death?
>they surmised that
> Tippit was killed at about 1:00pm, and that's the time they wrote in
> their report.
> Under normal circumstance and routine report filing, their entry would
> have been good enough, and it would not have needed to be altered. It
> wasn't until the Warren Commission reconstructed the chronology of
> Oswald's movements that it became clear that Oswald could not have
> traveled the mile from his rooming house to the site where Tippit was
> shot in just two minutes, that they decided to alter documents and the
> transcripts of police radio broadcasts. But by then they official
> time of Death for Tippit had been recorded as 1:15 ( The time that the
> ambulance arrived at Methodist) Dr Liquori knew that Tippit was DOA
> so he used that time as the official time of death. Obviously Tippit
> had been shot about ten minutes prior to his arrival at Methodist, so
> the time that Helen Markham entered in her affidavit is very close to
> the actual time of the shooting. Markham wrote that affidavit
> immediately after the shooting BEFORE the police had a chance to tell
> her what time they wanted her to say she had seen the shooting.
You should use the dispatcher`s times, they are more reliable.
Walt
> Walt wrote:
> > On 10 Mar, 09:20, Herbert Blenner <a1ea...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > > On Mar 10, 9:22�am, Ben Holmes <ad...@khadaji.com> wrote:
>
> > > > In article <7b5b3f10-a48b-46b4-acbe-357eee972...@u72g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
> > > > Herbert Blenner says...
>
> > > > >On Mar 9, 8:13=A0pm, Bud <sirsl...@fast.net> wrote:
> > > > >> Walt wrote:
> > > > >> > On 9 Mar, 14:43, Walt <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote:
> > > > >> > > On 9 Mar, 05:05, Bud <sirsl...@fast.net> wrote:
>
> > > > >> > > > Walt wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > On 8 Mar, 18:20, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > >www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/browse_thread/thread/e290=
> > > > >90ae...
>
> > > > >> > > > > > My Proposed "LEE HARVEY OSWALD ASSASSINATION TIMELINE"......
>
> > > > >> > > > > Are you afraid to focus on the period from 1:00pm to 1:30pm??
>
> > > > >> > > > > Do you think you're fooling anybody by attempting to refocus the
>
> > > > >> > > > =A0 =A0Try this one, idiot.
>
> > > > >> > > > =A0 =A0http://www.jdtippit.com/html/timetable_nov.htm
>
Answer....1:15
> > > > >> > > > > > him. This differs inchronologyfrom the other witnesses who sai=
Bud
Produce a document from Liquori stating such.
Bud
So much for the idiots who claimed it wasn`t possible to make this
mistake.
Herbert Blenner
Apparently LN'ers want to have it both ways. On the one hand they
reject the time announcements on the dictabelt recorded during the
assassination of President Kennedy and accept as true the time
announcements on the dictabelt and Audograph disk that contained the
initial reports on the shooting of officer Tippit. Obviously the
LN'ers are unaware of the contradictions arising from their attitude.
The dictabelt recorded during the assassination of President Kennedy
contains many heterodyne tones generated when a transmitter came on
while another station was transmitting. Typically the heterodyne tones
began as the second transmitter came on, accompanied an undistorted
voiced message and ended when the second transmitter switched off. The
following wave files show this behavior.
http://mysite.verizon.net/a1eah71/temps/trackone01990200.wav
http://mysite.verizon.net/a1eah71/temps/trackone02260227.wav
The heterodyne tones and the undistorted voiced messages are
conclusive evidence of a radio system using amplitude modulation.
By contrast the dictabelt that recorded Bowley's report of the Tippit
shooting contains a few simultaneous transmissions that lack
heterodyne tones as heard on the following links.
http://mysite.verizon.net/a1eah71/temps/bowley00040006.wav
http://mysite.verizon.net/a1eah71/temps/bowley00110012.wav
More important the voiced messages during the simultaneous
transmissions are highly garbled and unintelligible.
http://mysite.verizon.net/a1eah71/temps/bowley0005.wav
http://mysite.verizon.net/a1eah71/temps/bowley0011.wav
The dictabelt spanning the Tippit shooting shows operation of a
frequency modulated radio system. Since the copout that the DPD
modernized their system from AM to FM during the brief interval
between the Tippit shooting and the Kennedy assassination is
unacceptable then the inevitable conclusion that the dictabelts are
tainted evidence must follow from analysis of their contents.
Herbert
Bud
As usual, I don`t know what Herbert is saying, but I strongly
disagree with it.
Walt
ROTFLMAO.... I'll decipher it for you. Well basically Herbert is
saying that if you believe that Tippit was shot after TF Bowley
arrived at 1:10, then you've got yer head in yer ass.
Herbert Blenner
Perhaps you care to explain the problems with the following two pages
from the transcripts of the DPD radio communications on Channel I.
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0217a.htm
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0217b.htm
First note the discrepancies in the time announcements. They jump
backward from 1:16 to 1:10 only to be followed by an over typed time.
Where did we see over typed times before?
The citizen clearly specified the address of the shooting as 404 East
Tenth Street. Nevertheless an unknown police officer interjected
another address of 510 East Jefferson and the dispatcher sent unit 19
and the ambulance, unit 602, to the 501 East Jefferson address of Ted
Callaway and Sam Guinyard. If this situation were not so sad then it
would be hilarious.
Herbert
Bud
I don`t think the times given were time announcements, they are
supplied times. There were time announcements, as can be seen on these
transcripts of the tapes...
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dpdtapes/tapes2.htm
But the tapes exist, and are in real time, so anyone can time from
the announced times to any event mentioned on the tapes. This should
help you resolve you "problems", Herbert.
> They jump
> backward from 1:16 to 1:10 only to be followed by an over typed time.
Yah, seems a mistake or two was made in the transcripts. One was
caught and corrected, another went uncorrected.
> Where did we see over typed times before?
This is before white-out. Instead of typing the whole page up, a
person might correct only the incorrect information. Of course a
murderous conspiracy with so much at stake wouldn`t be so lazy, they`s
destroy the whole page and type a new one.
Bud
For that he needed six links?
Walt
Herbert likes to corroborate what he says with actual evidence....
While I on the other hand can take a quick look at you walking around
on yer elbows, and know what yer problem is.
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > > > > > >http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/00/0083-001.gif
>
> > > > > > > > >Herbert
>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > Oswald was STANDING on near the curb in from of the rooming house =
> > > > > > > > >at
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > 1026 N Beckley just TWO minutes before Helen Markham saw a man sho=
> > > > > > > > >ot
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > officer J.D. Tippit.
>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > =A0 =A0 But you can establish neither of those times as accurate. Be=
> > > > > > > > >tter,
> > > > > > > > >> > > > established times are available, which you ignore.
>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > =A0 =A0Here is the man Oswald killed....
>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > =A0 =A0http://www.geocities.com/remember_wwii/JDTippit.html
>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > (Beginning at lunchtime on November 22, 1963; all times
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > approximate)......
>
> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
>
Walt
> On Mar 11, 7:06 am, Bud <sirsl...@fast.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Herbert Blenner wrote:
> > > On Mar 10, 3:59 pm, Bud <sirsl...@fast.net> wrote:
> > > > Walt wrote:
> > > > > On 10 Mar, 09:20, Herbert Blenner <a1ea...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > > > > > On Mar 10, 9:22�am, Ben Holmes <ad...@khadaji.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > In article <7b5b3f10-a48b-46b4-acbe-357eee972...@u72g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
> > > > > > > Herbert Blenner says...
>
> > > > > > > >On Mar 9, 8:13=A0pm, Bud <sirsl...@fast.net> wrote:
> > > > > > > >> Walt wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > On 9 Mar, 14:43, Walt <papakochenb...@evertek.net> wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > On 9 Mar, 05:05, Bud <sirsl...@fast.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > >> > > > Walt wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > On 8 Mar, 18:20, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > >www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/browse_thread/thread/e290=
> > > > > > > >90ae...
>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > My Proposed "LEE HARVEY OSWALD ASSASSINATION TIMELINE"......
>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > Are you afraid to focus on the period from 1:00pm to 1:30pm??
>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > Do you think you're fooling anybody by attempting to refocus the
>
> > > > > > > >> > > > =A0 =A0Try this one, idiot.
>
> > > > > > > >> > > > =A0 =A0http://www.jdtippit.com/html/timetable_nov.htm
>
>
> http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0...
>
> First note the discrepancies in the time announcements. They jump
> backward from 1:16 to 1:10 only to be followed by an over typed time.
> Where did we see over typed times before?
>
> The citizen clearly specified the address of the shooting as 404 East
> Tenth Street.
Yes the citizen ( TF Bowley) did give the address as 404 East 10th.
Benavides had preceded Bowley in the use of Tippit's Radio, and
Benavides gave the address as 401 East tenth. Bowley said he arrived
at 1:10. and shortly after Bowley told the dispatcher that a policeman
had been shot the dispatcher announced the time of 1:10.
Nevertheless an unknown police officer interjected
> another address of 510 East Jefferson and the dispatcher sent unit 19
Unit 19 was Sgt Gerald Hill ..... Hill said he heard a citizen using a
police radio, say that an officer had been shot and ... "I THINK HE'S
DEAD"...
Those were the words of Ted Callaway who arrived on the scene at about
1:13 / 1:14. Neither Benavides nor Bowley said anything about the
officer being DEAD, so Hill had to have heard Callaway's message to
the dispatcher. Sgt Gerald Hill jumped in a police car and headed
for the scene of the Tippit shooting immediately after he heard the
citizen's message. He reported to the dispatcher "19 enroute".....
This time had to have been about 1:15 /1:16.
> and the ambulance, unit 602, to the 501 East Jefferson address of Ted
> Callaway and Sam Guinyard. If this situation were not so sad then it
> would be hilarious.
>
> Herbert
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > > > > >http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/00/0083-001.gif
>
> > > > > > > >Herbert
>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > Oswald was STANDING on near the curb in from of the rooming house =
> > > > > > > >at
> > > > > > > >> > > > > 1026 N Beckley just TWO minutes before Helen Markham saw a man sho=
> > > > > > > >ot
> > > > > > > >> > > > > officer J.D. Tippit.
>
> > > > > > > >> > > > =A0 =A0 But you can establish neither of those times as accurate. Be=
> > > > > > > >tter,
> > > > > > > >> > > > established times are available, which you ignore.
>
> > > > > > > >> > > > =A0 =A0Here is the man Oswald killed....
>
> > > > > > > >> > > > =A0 =A0http://www.geocities.com/remember_wwii/JDTippit.html
>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > (Beginning at lunchtime on November 22, 1963; all times
>
Herbert Blenner
I am been unable to fond the Benavides message in the various
transcripts. Can you point direct me to the document?
Herbert
> Bowley said he arrived
> at 1:10. and shortly after Bowley told the dispatcher that a policeman
> had been shot the dispatcher announced the time of 1:10.
>
> Nevertheless an unknown police officer interjected
>
> > another address of 510 East Jefferson and the dispatcher sent unit 19
>
> Unit 19 was Sgt Gerald Hill ..... Hill said he heard a citizen using a
> police radio, say that an officer had been shot and ... "I THINK HE'S
> DEAD"...
>
> Those were the words of Ted Callaway who arrived on the scene at about
> 1:13 / 1:14. Neither Benavides nor ...
Walt
Mr. Benavides.
The gun was in his hand and he was partially lying on his gun in his
right hand. He was partially lying on his gun and on his hand, too.
Mr. Belin.
Then what did you do?
Mr. BENAVIDES. Then I don't know if I opened the car door back further
than what it was or not, but anyway, I went in and pulled the radio
and I mashed the button and told them that an officer had been shot,
and I didn't get an answer, so I said it again, and this guy asked me
whereabouts all of a sudden, and I said, on 10th Street. I couldn't
remember where it was at at the time. So I looked up and I seen this
number and I said 410 East 10th Street.
Mr. Belin.
You saw a number on the house then?
Mr. Benavides.
Yes.
Mr. Belin.
All right.
Mr. BENAVIDES. Then he started to--then I don't know what he said; but
I put the radio back. I mean, the microphone back up, and this other
guy was standing there, so I got up out of the car, and I don't know,
I wasn't sure if he heard me, and the other guy sat down in the car.
Mr. Belin.
There was another passerby that stopped?
Mr. Benavides.
Yes, sir.
>
> Herbert
>
>
>
> > Bowley said he arrived
> > at 1:10. and shortly after Bowley
>
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
Herbert Blenner
Hey, Walt. I am old but still know the difference between testimony
and a transcript of the dictabelt.
Herbert
Walt
Herb.... Are you aware that these were desperate actions of desperate
men? They murdered the President of the United States...Do you think
they would have thought twice about altering recordings of the radio
transmissions??