Daily Spirit-guided thought for 05/29/08
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
May dear neighbors, friends, and brethren have a blessedly wonderful
2008th year since the birth of our LORD Jesus Christ as the Son of
Man ...
... by being hungrier:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/f891e617d10bd689?
Hunger is wonderful ! ! !
It's how we know what GOD desires, which is all that is good.
Yes, hunger is our knowledge of good versus evil that Adam and Eve
paid for with their and our immortal lives.
"Blessed are you who hunger NOW...
... for you will be satisfied." -- LORD Jesus Christ (Luke 6:21)
Amen.
Here is a Spirit-guided exegesis of Luke 6:21 given in hopes of
promoting much greater understanding:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/cc2aa8f8a4d41360?
Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be healthier...
Marana tha
Prayerfully in the awesome name of LORD Jesus Christ,
Andrew <><
--
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/076ebd277bbfd158?
J A
Jesus as the Messiah? by Rabbi Shraga Simmons
Question: Why did the majority of the Jewish world reject Jesus as the
Messiah, and why did the first Christians accept Jesus as the Messiah?
Answer
It is important to understand why Jews don't believe in Jesus.
Jews do not accept Jesus as the messiah because:
1) Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies.
2) Jesus did not embody the personal qualifications of the Messiah.
3) Biblical verses "referring" to Jesus are mistranslations.
4) Jewish belief is based on national revelation.
At the end of this article, we will examine these additional topics:
5) Christianity contradicts Jewish theology
6) Jews and Gentiles
7) Bringing the Messiah
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1) JESUS DID NOT FULFILL THE MESSIANIC PROPHECIES
What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? The Bible says that he will:
A. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
B. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
C. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering
and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation,
neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)
D. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite
humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world -- on that
day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).
The historical fact is that Jesus fulfilled none of these messianic
prophecies.
Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second Coming, but
Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the prophecies outright,
and no concept of a second coming exists.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
2) JESUS DID NOT EMBODY THE PERSONAL QUALIFICATIONS OF MESSIAH
A. MESSIAH AS PROPHET
Jesus was not a prophet. Prophecy can only exist in Israel when the land is
inhabited by a majority of world Jewry. During the time of Ezra (circa 300
BCE), when the majority of Jews refused to move from Babylon to Israel,
prophecy ended upon the death of the last prophets -- Haggai, Zechariah and
Malachi.
Jesus appeared on the scene approximately 350 years after prophecy had
ended.
B. DESCENDENT OF DAVID
The Messiah must be descended on his father's side from King David (see
Genesis 49:10 and Isaiah 11:1). According to the Christian claim that Jesus
was the product of a virgin birth, he had no father -- and thus could not
have possibly fulfilled the messianic requirement of being descended on his
father's side from King David!
C. TORAH OBSERVANCE
The Messiah will lead the Jewish people to full Torah observance. The Torah
states that all mitzvot remain binding forever, and anyone coming to change
the Torah is immediately identified as a false prophet. (Deut. 13:1-4)
Throughout the New Testament, Jesus contradicts the Torah and states that
its commandments are no longer applicable. (see John 1:45 and 9:16, Acts
3:22 and 7:37)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
3) MISTRANSLATED VERSES "REFERRING" TO JESUS
Biblical verses can only be understood by studying the original Hebrew
text -- which reveals many discrepancies in the Christian translation.
A. VIRGIN BIRTH
The Christian idea of a virgin birth is derived from the verse in Isaiah
7:14 describing an "alma" as giving birth. The word "alma" has always meant
a young woman, but Christian theologians came centuries later and translated
it as "virgin." This accords Jesus' birth with the first century pagan idea
of mortals being impregnated by gods.
B. CRUCIFIXION
The verse in Psalms 22:17 reads: "Like a lion, they are at my hands and
feet." The Hebrew word ki-ari (like a lion) is grammatically similar to the
word "gouged." Thus Christianity reads the verse as a reference to
crucifixion: "They pierced my hands and feet."
C. SUFFERING SERVANT
Christianity claims that Isaiah chapter 53 refers to Jesus, as the
"suffering servant."
In actuality, Isaiah 53 directly follows the theme of chapter 52, describing
the exile and redemption of the Jewish people. The prophecies are written in
the singular form because the Jews ("Israel") are regarded as one unit. The
Torah is filled with examples of the Jewish nation referred to with a
singular pronoun.
Ironically, Isaiah's prophecies of persecution refer in part to the 11th
century when Jews were tortured and killed by Crusaders who acted in the
name of Jesus.
From where did these mistranslations stem? St. Gregory, 4th century Bishop
of Nanianzus, wrote: "A little jargon is all that is necessary to impose on
the people. The less they comprehend, the more they admire."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
4) JEWISH BELIEF IS BASED SOLELY ON NATIONAL REVELATION
Of the 15,000 religions in human history, only Judaism bases its belief on
national revelation -- i.e. God speaking to the entire nation. If God is
going to start a religion, it makes sense He'll tell everyone, not just one
person.
Judaism, unique among all of the world's major religions, does not rely on
"claims of miracles" as the basis for its religion. In fact, the Bible says
that God sometimes grants the power of "miracles" to charlatans, in order to
test Jewish loyalty to the Torah (Deut. 13:4).
Maimonides states (Foundations of Torah, ch. 8):
The Jews did not believe in Moses, our teacher, because of the miracles he
performed. Whenever anyone's belief is based on seeing miracles, he has
lingering doubts, because it is possible the miracles were performed through
magic or sorcery. All of the miracles performed by Moses in the desert were
because they were necessary, and not as proof of his prophecy.
What then was the basis of [Jewish] belief? The Revelation at Mount Sinai,
which we saw with our own eyes and heard with our own ears, not dependent on
the testimony of others... as it says, "Face to face, God spoke with you..."
The Torah also states: "God did not make this covenant with our fathers, but
with us -- who are all here alive today." (Deut. 5:3)
Judaism is not miracles. It is the personal eyewitness experience of every
man, woman and child, standing at Mount Sinai 3,300 years ago.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
5) CHRISTIANITY CONTRADICTS JEWISH THEOLOGY
The following theological points apply primarily to the Roman Catholic
Church, the largest Christian denomination, and the one most familiar to the
Western world.
A. GOD AS THREE?
The Catholic idea of Trinity breaks God into three separate beings: The
Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost (Matthew 28:19).
Contrast this to the Shema, the basis of Jewish belief: "Hear O Israel, the
Lord our God, the Lord is ONE" (Deut. 6:4). Jews declare the Shema every
day, while writing it on doorposts (Mezuzah), and binding it to the hand and
head (Tefillin). This statement of God's One-ness is the first words a
Jewish child is taught to say, and the last words uttered before a Jew dies.
In Jewish law, worship of a three-part god is considered idolatry -- one of
the three cardinal sins that a Jew should rather give up his life than
transgress. This explains why during the Inquisitions and throughout
history, Jews gave up their lives rather than convert.
B. MAN AS GOD?
Christians believe that God came down to earth in human form, as Jesus said:
"I and the Father are one" (John 10:30).
Maimonides devotes most of the "Guide for the Perplexed" to the fundamental
idea that God is incorporeal, meaning that He assumes no physical form. God
is Eternal, above time. He is Infinite, beyond space. He cannot be born, and
cannot die. Saying that God assumes human form makes God small, diminishing
both His unity and His divinity. As the Torah says: "God is not a mortal"
(Numbers 23:19).
Judaism says that the Messiah will be born of human parents, and possess
normal physical attributes like other people. He will not be a demi-god, and
will not possess supernatural qualities. In fact, an individual is alive in
every generation with the capacity to step into the role of the Messiah.
(see Maimonides - Laws of Kings 11:3)
cactus
Agent Haskell, IRS
> Why Jewish scholars reject jesus as a fraud.
>
> Jesus as the Messiah? by Rabbi Shraga Simmons
> Question: Why did the majority of the Jewish world reject Jesus as the
> Messiah, and why did the first Christians accept Jesus as the Messiah?
>
> Answer
>
> It is important to understand why Jews don't believe in Jesus.
>
> Jews do not accept Jesus as the messiah because:
>
> 1) Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies.
>
> 2) Jesus did not embody the personal qualifications of the Messiah.
>
> 3) Biblical verses "referring" to Jesus are mistranslations.
>
> 4) Jewish belief is based on national revelation.
>
> At the end of this article, we will examine these additional topics:
>
> 5) Christianity contradicts Jewish theology
>
> 6) Jews and Gentiles
>
> 7) Bringing the Messiah
Also, "jesus" is a Mexican name. A _real_ jewish
messiah is more likely to be named Irving.
saint...@hotmail.com
wrote:
Good, you follow Irving, and I'll follow Jesus. May God hold you to
that.
J A
<saint...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a300a56e-6492-4d21...@w8g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
The Old Testament has Commandments which condemn worshipping gods other than
yahweh, and idol worship (crosses etc.) - you do both.
According to the Ten Commandments, YOU are condemned.
There is no Commandment against atheism.
As to jesus being the messiah, why don't you refute what this rabbi has to
say?
Jesus as the Messiah? by Rabbi Shraga Simmons
Question: Why did the majority of the Jewish world reject Jesus as the
Messiah, and why did the first Christians accept Jesus as the Messiah?
Answer
It is important to understand why Jews don't believe in Jesus.
Jews do not accept Jesus as the messiah because:
1) Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies.
2) Jesus did not embody the personal qualifications of the Messiah.
3) Biblical verses "referring" to Jesus are mistranslations.
4) Jewish belief is based on national revelation.
At the end of this article, we will examine these additional topics:
5) Christianity contradicts Jewish theology
6) Jews and Gentiles
7) Bringing the Messiah
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
J A
"Agent Haskell, IRS" <father...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:864ae885-e407-4aac...@34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
... And selling used cars or knock-off DVDs....
Thom Madura
I certainly hope you meant this last line as a joke.
THere was no person named Jesus Christ for a different readon.
1 - Last names were not used at the time. He would have been know as son
of his father from his father's villiage - ie - son of Joseph of
Nazareth OR later - he would have been just "of Nazareth".
2 - Christ is not a name to begin with - it is a TITLE - It means
annointed one (From the greek). Just as you would call John the Basptist
- John Baptist - you would not have called Jesus the Christ - Jesus Christ.
3 - The letter "j" did not come into use for another 1500 + years after
his supposed death. Even early bibles (I have a 900 year old Polish one)
did not use that name - so when they claimed to find a crypt with the
names Joseph, Mary, and Jesus on it - we knew that was a fraud - even
Joseph was not spelled with a "j".
4 - His name was Yeshua (Son of Yahweh) - also spelled Yashua in some
places.
Agent Haskell, IRS
> Agent Haskell, IRS wrote:
> > On May 29, 8:06 pm, "J A" <a...@re.com> wrote:
> >> Why Jewish scholars reject jesus as a fraud.
>
> >> Jesus as the Messiah? by Rabbi Shraga Simmons
> >> Question: Why did the majority of the Jewish world reject Jesus as the
> >> Messiah, and why did the first Christians accept Jesus as the Messiah?
>
> >> Answer
>
> >> It is important to understand why Jews don't believe in Jesus.
>
> >> Jews do not accept Jesus as the messiah because:
>
> >> 1) Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies.
>
> >> 2) Jesus did not embody the personal qualifications of the Messiah.
>
> >> 3) Biblical verses "referring" to Jesus are mistranslations.
>
> >> 4) Jewish belief is based on national revelation.
>
> >> At the end of this article, we will examine these additional topics:
>
> >> 5) Christianity contradicts Jewish theology
>
> >> 6) Jews and Gentiles
>
> >> 7) Bringing the Messiah
>
> > Also, "jesus" is a Mexican name. A _real_ jewish
> > messiah is more likely to be named Irving.
>
> I certainly hope you meant this last line as a joke.
Have I ever treated religion like it wasn't a joke?
> THere was no person named Jesus Christ for a different readon.
>
> 1 - Last names were not used at the time. He would have been know as son
> of his father from his father's villiage - ie - son of Joseph of
> Nazareth OR later - he would have been just "of Nazareth".
>
> 2 - Christ is not a name to begin with - it is a TITLE - It means
> annointed one (From the greek). Just as you would call John the Basptist
> - John Baptist - you would not have called Jesus the Christ - Jesus Christ.
>
> 3 - The letter "j" did not come into use for another 1500 + years after
> his supposed death. Even early bibles (I have a 900 year old Polish one)
> did not use that name - so when they claimed to find a crypt with the
> names Joseph, Mary, and Jesus on it - we knew that was a fraud - even
> Joseph was not spelled with a "j".
>
> 4 - His name was Yeshua (Son of Yahweh) - also spelled Yashua in some
> places.
Right. Note the inscription in those epidemic fish stickers --
which say "ixoye," the Greek spelling, not "jesus," the
modern xian spelling.
Interestingly, the Greek name appears to be pronounced
similar to "Isis," one of the better-known members of the
Egyptian pantheon.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
of the LORD and set me in the middle of a valley; it was full of
bones. HE led me back and forth among them, and I saw a great many
bones on the floor of the valley, bones that were very dry. HE asked
me, "Son of man, can these bones live?"
I said, "O Sovereign LORD, You alone know."
Then HE said to me, "Prophesy to these bones and say to them, 'Dry
bones, hear the word of the LORD! This is what the Sovereign LORD says
to these bones: I will make breath enter you, and you will come to
life. I will attach tendons to you and make flesh come upon you and
cover you with skin; I will put breath in you, and you will come to
life. Then you will know that I am the LORD.' "
So I prophesied as I was commanded. And as I was prophesying, there
was a noise, a rattling sound, and the bones came together, bone to
bone. I looked, and tendons and flesh appeared on them and skin
covered them, but there was no breath in them.
Then HE said to me, "Prophesy to the breath; prophesy, son of man, and
say to it, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Come from the four
winds, O breath, and breathe into these slain, that they may live.' "
So I prophesied as HE commanded me, and breath entered them; they came
to life and stood up on their feet—a vast army.
Then HE said to me: "Son of man, these bones are the whole house of
Israel. They say, 'Our bones are dried up and our hope is gone; we are
cut off.' Therefore prophesy and say to them: 'This is what the
Sovereign LORD says: O My people, I am going to open your graves and
bring you up from them; I will bring you back to the land of Israel.
Then you, My people, will know that I am the LORD, when I open your
graves and bring you up from them. I will put My Spirit in you and you
will live, and I will settle you in your own land. Then you will know
that I the LORD have spoken, and I have done it, declares the LORD.' "
The Word of the LORD came to me: "Son of man, take a stick of wood and
write on it, 'Belonging to Judah and the Israelites associated with
him.' Then take another stick of wood, and write on it, 'Ephraim's
stick, belonging to Joseph and all the house of Israel associated with
him.' Join them together into one stick so that they will become one
in your hand.
"When your countrymen ask you, 'Won't you tell us what you mean by
this?' say to them, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am going
to take the stick of Joseph—which is in Ephraim's hand—and of the
Israelite tribes associated with him, and join it to Judah's stick,
making them a single stick of wood, and they will become one in My
hand.' Hold before their eyes the sticks you have written on and say
to them, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I will take the
Israelites out of the nations where they have gone. I will gather them
from all around and bring them back into their own land. I will make
them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. There will be
one King over all of them and they will never again be two nations or
be divided into two kingdoms. They will no longer defile themselves
with their idols and vile images or with any of their offenses, for I
will save them from all their sinful backsliding, and I will cleanse
them. They will be My people, and I will be their GOD.
" 'My servant David will be King over them, and they will all have one
Shepherd. They will follow My laws and be careful to keep My decrees.
They will live in the land I gave to My servant Jacob, the land where
your fathers lived. They and their children and their children's
children will live there forever, and David My servant will be their
Prince forever. I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be
an everlasting covenant. I will establish them and increase their
numbers, and I will put my sanctuary among them forever. My dwelling
place will be with them; I will be their GOD, and they will be My
people. Then the nations will know that I the LORD make Israel holy,
when My sanctuary is among them forever.' "
*** End Ezekiel 37 ***
A Spirit-guided exegesis of Ezekiel 37:
The setting is after a nuclear holocaust, which is in our future as
prophesied by the above passage. It is when GOD resurrects the
soldiers who perished in this future holocaust that every knee will
bend and every head will bow having received proof by LORD Almighty
GOD that HE is indeed sovereign.
The joining of the two sticks represents the grafting of two nations,
Judah (Israel) and Ephraim (America) into one under the rule of David
(Jesus Christ).
The latter will occur in the setting of a new heaven, new earth, and
new Jerusalem (Revelation).
<><
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/076ebd277bbfd158?
Thom Madura
The pope, the only christian leader who can trace his right back to the
bible and the christ - has proclaimed that the Roman Catholic religion
is the only true religion - and that all others are defective.
If you want to be saved - you must renounce all other religions and
join the Roman Catholic Church.
You are quoting from a bible that has not been authorized by that church
- therefore you are a heretic and you are wrong and will not be saved.
Worse - there is no Hope for you - Bob Hope already died!
Don Kirkman
<af1799c3-21fa-4948...@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com>:
>The hand of the LORD was upon me, and HE brought me out by the Spirit
>of the LORD and set me in the middle of a valley; it was full of
>bones. HE led me back and forth among them, and I saw a great many
>bones on the floor of the valley, bones that were very dry. HE asked
>me, "Son of man, can these bones live?"
>I said, "O Sovereign LORD, You alone know."
>Then HE said to me, "Prophesy to these bones and say to them, 'Dry
>bones, hear the word of the LORD! This is what the Sovereign LORD says
>to these bones: I will make breath enter you, and you will come to
>life. I will attach tendons to you and make flesh come upon you and
>cover you with skin; I will put breath in you, and you will come to
>life. Then you will know that I am the LORD.' "
>So I prophesied as I was commanded. And as I was prophesying, there
>was a noise, a rattling sound, and the bones came together, bone to
>bone. I looked, and tendons and flesh appeared on them and skin
>covered them, but there was no breath in them.
>Then HE said to me, "Prophesy to the breath; prophesy, son of man, and
>say to it, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Come from the four
>winds, O breath, and breathe into these slain, that they may live.' "
>So I prophesied as HE commanded me, and breath entered them; they came
>to life and stood up on their feet?a vast army.
>Then HE said to me: "Son of man, these bones are the whole house of
>Israel. They say, 'Our bones are dried up and our hope is gone; we are
>cut off.' Therefore prophesy and say to them: 'This is what the
>Sovereign LORD says: O My people, I am going to open your graves and
>bring you up from them; I will bring you back to the land of Israel.
>Then you, My people, will know that I am the LORD, when I open your
>graves and bring you up from them. I will put My Spirit in you and you
>will live, and I will settle you in your own land. Then you will know
>that I the LORD have spoken, and I have done it, declares the LORD.' "
>The Word of the LORD came to me: "Son of man, take a stick of wood and
>write on it, 'Belonging to Judah and the Israelites associated with
>him.' Then take another stick of wood, and write on it, 'Ephraim's
>stick, belonging to Joseph and all the house of Israel associated with
>him.' Join them together into one stick so that they will become one
>in your hand.
>"When your countrymen ask you, 'Won't you tell us what you mean by
>this?' say to them, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am going
>to take the stick of Joseph?which is in Ephraim's hand?and of the
A contextual interpretation; about three thousand years before nuclei were even
thought of: many of the Jews, drawn from the sister nations Israel and Judah
[they had earlier split over succession issues], had been taken into exile in
Babylon [Iraq]. Many of the exiles believed the Jewish nations were dead, as
bleached bones strewn in the desert--"Our bones are dried up, and our hope is
lost; we are clean cut off." Ezekiel's vision is that God would return them to
their homeland and restore their glory.
>The joining of the two sticks represents the grafting of two nations,
>Judah (Israel) and Ephraim (America) into one under the rule of David
>(Jesus Christ).
The two sticks, inscribed and bound together, symbolize this reunification of
Israel and Judah. This is clear from the quoted text above.
>The latter will occur in the setting of a new heaven, new earth, and
>new Jerusalem (Revelation).
This is dragged in from a New Testament writing several centuries later than
Ezekiel's writing.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Religion is of man and not of GOD.
Christianity is a relationship with the risen LORD Jesus Christ and
not a religion.
The life of disciple Simon Peter is a good illustration of this
relationship and what it entails...
... GOD's will be done and not our wills.
> If you want to be saved - you must renounce all other religions and
> join the Roman Catholic Church.
Not for the discerning.
> You are quoting from a bible that has not been authorized by that church
> - therefore you are a heretic and you are wrong and will not be saved.
Again, not for the discerning.
> Worse - there is no Hope for you - Bob Hope already died!
You are projecting.
May we, who are Christians, continue to pray for your perishing soul,
dear Thom:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3cef85cf7bd411d0?
Prayerfully in the awesome name of LORD Jesus Christ,
Andrew <><
--
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3558812d72ab4e17?
Aaron
wrote:
I have read all this before and none of it holds water under close
examination. It addresses more of Christianity's rejection of the
teachings of Yshu`a than it does the identity of the Messiah. I have
already written a responce, though my original is color coded to make
the speakers easy to identify ( not really workable on usenet).
However, I have not seen any Messianic Jews here for years. It used
to be Messianic Jews, a few non-Messianic Jews and a few well-meaning
Christians who loved Jewish people. Now it is mostly anti-Semites
argueing over which is the correct way to hate Jews. As such, I think
it would be better of me not to post something which could be misused
by anti-Semites.
Cactus, in the past, you have been well mannered and reasonable.
Despite the fact that I disagree with you on some points, I respect
your opinion and your right to disagree with me. Unfortunately, I
cannot say that of most of the people who post and cross post here.
I do not know JA, but I am sure that he or she (I don't know what JA
stand for) believes what he or she posted. I also note that it was
quoted from the same sourse that I used years ago. So, I know that JA
did not add anything hateful into what was cut and pasted.
I had been gon from this NG for some time. when I check on it a few
months ago, there were too many anti-Semites to bother posting. It
might actually be getting worse.
Once this was a group where Messianic Jews could exchange ideas, where
Hebrew Christians could learn to return to Judaism (Yes, I define
Messianic Jew and Hebrew Christian very differently), where Jews who
do not accept Yshu`a as Messiah could express there ideas rationally
and expect a rational, if opposing, reply. Now, everytime I read in
this NG my opinion of Christianity drops. It is hardly a wonder that
somone who does not know the difference between Hebrew Christianity
and Messianic Judaism would think that Messianic Jews are wrong. If
you believe that we agree with Christians, you have been misinformed
about us, but I can see where you would want to help deliver jews from
Christianity if you believe that these bigots are representatives of
Christianity (and I believe that they are more honest that most
pastors). No Jew should EVER become a Christian, but that does not
mean that we can't follow Messiah. we may differ on opinions of the
identity of Messiah, but as lond as we do not worship or pray to
anyone we think is the Messiah, we can disagree in a respectful
manner.
I would say: Don't blame Rebe Yshu`a ben Yosef for what Christians
have done and are doing. Their actions are their own and they are not
guided by HaShem or even by their own version of the Bible.
Aaron
wrote:
Since the Messiah that is written of the the Christian Bible is named
Yshu`a, you seem to be at a disadvantage, The Jesus charater taught
by christian denominations differs sharply from the Messiah described
in their own Bible translations.
Thom Madura
So you also dismiss all christian religions then.
>
> Christianity is a relationship with the risen LORD Jesus Christ and
> not a religion.
The christ was not a god - and did not rise.
I agree with the Jewish religion - if he was really a messiah - he
should have rose in front of all the jews - or at the very least a huge
gathering. But according to religion - he rose in front of NO ONE -
there was nobody there when it happened. And - he never appeared to
anyone except his believers. If he really wanted to prove it - he should
have risen in front of Herod and the Jews in Jerusalem.
Why is it the almighty super powers gods always hide in bushes - or
grottos - and never appear to the mass of people? Hint - because it was
made up by religion. Since we have no other statements except those of
religion - then you must also dismiss the rising of the christ.
>
> The life of disciple Simon Peter is a good illustration of this
> relationship and what it entails...
Nonsense - Peter started what would become the Roman Catholic Church -
an institution devoid of ethics and morals - as are all other christian
religions as well.
> ... GOD's will be done and not our wills.
Interesting that you would provide the proof that the christ was not god
- it was not HIS will - but that of the god.
>
>> If you want to be saved - you must renounce all other religions and
>> join the Roman Catholic Church.
>
> Not for the discerning.
Pope Pius IX , a direct successor to Simon (peter) in an encyclical in
1854 said this:
"It must, of course, be held as a matter of faith that outside the
apostolic Roman Church no one can be saved, that the Church is the only
ark of salvation, and that whoever does not enter it will perish in the
flood."
>
>> You are quoting from a bible that has not been authorized by that church
>> - therefore you are a heretic and you are wrong and will not be saved.
>
> Again, not for the discerning.
In this case you are just plain wrong.
The bible was a compilation produced by the Catholic Church for which
there is almost no support documentation
The discerning will only use the passages that can be proven through
source material - and only the Catholic church has that material, which
basically consists of a few apostolic letters from apostles.
Those who are not discerning will use a bible produced by a religion
started by a monarch whose "moral" reason for doing so was to be able to
Divorce and then Behead his wife. Somehow - even YOU cannot justify that.
>
>> Worse - there is no Hope for you - Bob Hope already died!
>
> You are projecting.
At least in this case - I am saying something you have not been -
testable and supportable TRUTH
>
> May we, who are Christians, continue to pray for your perishing soul,
> dear Thom:
No - do not.
I do not need the support from a bunch of IDOL worshippers - who cannot
separate fact and reality from fiction and fantasy.
Cary Kittrell
> lga!newsfe05.lga.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail
> From: Don Kirkman <don...@charter.net>
> Newsgroups: sci.med.cardiology
> Subject: Re: A Spirit-guided exegesis of Ezekiel 37.
> Reply-To: don...@charter.net
> Message-ID: <tce044hjo69hiprqm...@4ax.com>
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> NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 11:40:17 MST
> Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 11:40:16 -0700
> Xref: news.arizona.edu sci.med.cardiology:145673
>
> It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in article
> <af1799c3-21fa-4948...@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com>:
>
> >The hand of the LORD was upon me, and HE brought me out by the Spirit
> >of the LORD and set me in the middle of a valley; it was full of
> >bones. HE led me back and forth among them, and I saw a great many
> >bones on the floor of the valley, bones that were very dry. HE asked
> >me, "Son of man, can these bones live?"
>
> >I said, "O Sovereign LORD, You alone know."
>
> >Then HE said to me, "Prophesy to these bones and say to them, 'Dry
> >bones, hear the word of the LORD! This is what the Sovereign LORD says
> >to these bones: I will make breath enter you, and you will come to
> >life. I will attach tendons to you and make flesh come upon you and
> >cover you with skin; I will put breath in you, and you will come to
> >life. Then you will know that I am the LORD.' "
>
> >So I prophesied as I was commanded. And as I was prophesying, there
> >was a noise, a rattling sound, and the bones came together, bone to
> >bone. I looked, and tendons and flesh appeared on them and skin
> >covered them, but there was no breath in them.
>
> >Then HE said to me, "Prophesy to the breath; prophesy, son of man, and
> >say to it, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Come from the four
> >winds, O breath, and breathe into these slain, that they may live.' "
> >So I prophesied as HE commanded me, and breath entered them; they came
>
> >Then HE said to me: "Son of man, these bones are the whole house of
> >Israel. They say, 'Our bones are dried up and our hope is gone; we are
> >cut off.' Therefore prophesy and say to them: 'This is what the
> >Sovereign LORD says: O My people, I am going to open your graves and
> >bring you up from them; I will bring you back to the land of Israel.
> >Then you, My people, will know that I am the LORD, when I open your
> >graves and bring you up from them. I will put My Spirit in you and you
> >will live, and I will settle you in your own land. Then you will know
> >that I the LORD have spoken, and I have done it, declares the LORD.' "
>
> >The Word of the LORD came to me: "Son of man, take a stick of wood and
> >write on it, 'Belonging to Judah and the Israelites associated with
> >him.' Then take another stick of wood, and write on it, 'Ephraim's
> >stick, belonging to Joseph and all the house of Israel associated with
> >him.' Join them together into one stick so that they will become one
> >in your hand.
>
> >"When your countrymen ask you, 'Won't you tell us what you mean by
> >this?' say to them, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am going
> thought of: many of the Jews, drawn from the sister nations Israel and Judah
> [they had earlier split over succession issues], had been taken into exile in
> Babylon [Iraq]. Many of the exiles believed the Jewish nations were dead, as
> bleached bones strewn in the desert--"Our bones are dried up, and our hope is
> lost; we are clean cut off." Ezekiel's vision is that God would return them to
> their homeland and restore their glory.
>
> >Judah (Israel) and Ephraim (America) into one under the rule of David
> >(Jesus Christ).
>
> Israel and Judah. This is clear from the quoted text above.
>
> >new Jerusalem (Revelation).
>
> Ezekiel's writing.
Ah, but just remember: "Babylon the Great ==> at Tehran by Globe".
(and Trident warheads falling like stars. and that all-but-imperceptible
End-Times earthquake)
Me, I prefer:
Lady, three white leopards sat under a juniper-tree
In the cool of the day, having fed to sateity
On my legs my heart my liver and that which had been
contained
In the hollow round of my skull. And God said
Shall these bones live? shall these
Bones live? And that which had been contained
In the bones (which were already dry) said chirping:
Because of the goodness of this Lady
And because of her loveliness, and because
She honours the Virgin in meditation,
We shine with brightness. And I who am here dissembled
Proffer my deeds to oblivion, and my love
To the posterity of the desert and the fruit of the gourd.
It is this which recovers
My guts the strings of my eyes and the indigestible portions
Which the leopards reject. The Lady is withdrawn
In a white gown, to contemplation, in a white gown.
Let the whiteness of bones atone to forgetfulness.
There is no life in them. As I am forgotten
And would be forgotten, so I would forget
Thus devoted, concentrated in purpose. And God said
Prophesy to the wind, to the wind only for only
The wind will listen. And the bones sang chirping
With the burden of the grasshopper, saying
{...>
-- cary
cactus
Thank you!
I do not agree that one can both be Jewish and accept Jesus of Nazareth
as the messiah because that would violate the Second Commandment.
OTOH I do not mind if other people hold that belief, PROVIDED that they
do not spread lies about Judaism.
>
J A
"Aaron" <an...@home.net> wrote in message
news:ldq044hvta5gncln6...@4ax.com...
That is utter nonsense.
In the first place, Jews DID reject jesus as the Messiah - that's an
histroical fact.
Second, anyone who is the least familiar with xian and jewish doctrine can
see that the writer, who is a Jewish scholar, deals with material in the
Torah that pertains to a messiah.
Third, if jesus is the actual meassiah, and rose from the dead, then produce
him and let him prove his existence and powers - it's that SIMPLE.
Thom Madura
I have proposed a better idea
Throughout the bible - there are a number of versions of "Ask in faith
and you shall receive" - type quotes.
Since the jesus believers will simply say - who are you to ask to see
jesus - don't do that.
Tell them to ask their christ to wipe out hunger in the world by
providing food to all who need it- a noble request worth of asking.
Have them ask for it to be done in the next month (God only needed 6
days to create everything - he should have no problem).
Next month - we will see if christ is what they say he is by seeing of
every hungry person received food.
Hint - we prayed that christ would end WWII and send our troops home
safe and alive. It took humans to invent the Atomic Bomb to end the war.
Christ never does anything you ask.
J A
"Thom Madura" <Tomm...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:48408c84$0$25038$607e...@cv.net...
That's ok as an alternative, but I want to see him, and have him perform
some supernatural acts..
I've never had one of these braindeads tell me I didn't have the right to
see him, only that they had no idea how to conjure him up.
Some of them claim to see and hear him. Chung claims to get messages from,t
he "holy spirit" all the time, but we don;t get to see or hear him, and
chung never seems to get tips on curing dioease or playing the futures
market...
Agent Haskell, IRS
Irving was my dad's name. Finest man who
ever walked the Earth.
monkfish
> I have proposed a better idea
>
> Throughout the bible - there are a number of versions of "Ask in faith
> and you shall receive" - type quotes.
>
> Since the jesus believers will simply say - who are you to ask to see
> jesus - don't do that.
>
> Tell them to ask their christ to wipe out hunger in the world by
> providing food to all who need it- a noble request worth of asking.
> Have them ask for it to be done in the next month (God only needed 6
> days to create everything - he should have no problem).
>
> Next month - we will see if christ is what they say he is by seeing of
> every hungry person received food.
>
> Hint - we prayed that christ would end WWII and send our troops home
> safe and alive. It took humans to invent the Atomic Bomb to end the war.
> Christ never does anything you ask.
You completely misunderstood the message.
What is the message of the Kingdom of God?
--
monkfish
* The followup-to header is set to alt.christnet.theology.
** alt.atheism is removed from the groups header.
monkfish
Did he believe in God?
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
>
>
> Throughout the bible - there are a number of versions of "Ask in faith
> and you shall receive" - type quotes.
"Ask for good things in My name and it will be done for you." -- LORD
Jesus Christ.
Amen.
> Since the jesus believers will simply say - who are you to ask to see
> jesus - don't do that.
No.
We, who are Jesus' disciples, know we will see HIM.
> Tell them to ask their christ to wipe out hunger in the world by
> providing food to all who need it-
Providing food to all who need food will simply increase hunger in the
world.
Hunger is wanting food and not needing it.
Starvation is needing food but no longer wanting it.
It is when GOD provides us with what we need (i.e. blessings) that we
want more (i.e. hungrier).
> a noble request worth of asking.
Actually, wiping out hunger is a bad request.
Strickening everyone with cancer as was done to Bob Pastorio would
indeed wipe out hunger in this world.
> Have them ask for it to be done in the next month (God only needed 6
> days to create everything - he should have no problem).
Asking for a bad thing would not be asking it in Jesus' name.
> Next month - we will see if christ is what they say he is by seeing of
> every hungry person received food.
If hungry people did not receive food, they would be starving (i.e.
dying) and no longer hungry because dying people are not hungry.
> Hint - we prayed that christ would end WWII and send our troops home
> safe and alive.
And indeed WWII ended and our troops did make it home safe and alive.
Laus Deo ! ! !
> It took humans to invent the Atomic Bomb to end the war.
"With man alone this would have been impossible." -- Holy Spirit.
Amen.
> Christ never does anything you ask.
That has not been my personal experience.
This simply shows that the Holy Spirit is absolutely right to convict
you.
May we, who are Christians, continue to pray for your perishing soul:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3cef85cf7bd411d0?
Prayerfully in the awesome name of LORD Jesus Christ,
Andrew <><
--
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3558812d72ab4e17?
bob young
"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" wrote:
>
> convicted neighbor Thom Madura wrote:
> >
> > I have proposed a better idea
> >
> > Throughout the bible - there are a number of versions of "Ask in faith
> > and you shall receive" - type quotes.
>
> "Ask for good things in My name and it will be done for you." -- LORD
> Jesus Christ.
>
> Amen.
>
> > Since the jesus believers will simply say - who are you to ask to see
> > jesus - don't do that.
>
> No.
>
> We, who are Jesus' disciples, know we will see HIM.
>
> > Tell them to ask their christ to wipe out hunger in the world by
> > providing food to all who need it-
>
> Providing food to all who need food will simply increase hunger in the
> world.
Infantile crap
>
> Hunger is wanting food and not needing it.
>
> Starvation is needing food but no longer wanting it.
>
> It is when GOD provides us with what we need (i.e. blessings) that we
> want more (i.e. hungrier).
>
> > a noble request worth of asking.
>
> Actually, wiping out hunger is a bad request.
>
> Strickening everyone with cancer as was done to Bob Pastorio would
> indeed wipe out hunger in this world.
>
> > Have them ask for it to be done in the next month (God only needed 6
> > days to create everything - he should have no problem).
>
> Asking for a bad thing would not be asking it in Jesus' name.
>
> > Next month - we will see if christ is what they say he is by seeing of
> > every hungry person received food.
>
> If hungry people did not receive food, they would be starving (i.e.
> dying) and no longer hungry because dying people are not hungry.
>
> > Hint - we prayed that christ would end WWII and send our troops home
> > safe and alive.
>
> And indeed WWII ended and our troops did make it home safe and alive.
>
> Laus Deo ! ! !
>
> > It took humans to invent the Atomic Bomb to end the war.
>
> "With man alone this would have been impossible." -- Holy Spirit.
>
> Amen.
>
> > Christ never does anything you ask.
>
> That has not been my personal experience.
".....is it OK to lie for god ?
Think carefull, hard and deeply on that question above......
my friend."
Thom Madura
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
There is no Christian religion according to what is written in the
Bible about religion:
"Religion that GOD our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this:
to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself
from being polluted by the world." (James 1:27)
> > Christianity is a relationship with the risen LORD Jesus Christ and
> > not a religion.
>
> The christ was not a god - and did not rise.
"My LORD and my GOD ! " - disciple "doubting" Thomas upon seeing the
risen Jesus Christ offering Thomas what Thomas thought Thomas needed.
Because it is not written that Jesus rebuked Thomas for this
declaration, we know that Jesus Christ is Thomas' LORD and GOD.
Because it is not written that Thomas put his fingers in the holes in
Jesus' hands, we know that Thomas found that his faith in the risen
LORD Jesus Christ did not require physical evidence. That what he
thought he needed was only what he wanted. It is when we confuse our
wants with our needs that we doubt and lose faith.
This simply shows that the Holy Spirit is absolutely right to convict
you:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3cef85cf7bd411d0?
May we, who are Christians, continue to pray for your perishing soul,
dear Thom:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3cef85cf7bd411d0?
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
This serves well to remind us, who are Christians, to continue to pray
for your perishing soul, dear Thom:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3cef85cf7bd411d0?
Prayerfully in the awesome name of LORD Jesus Christ,
Andrew <><
--
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3cef85cf7bd411d0?
J A
"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <lov...@thetruth.com> wrote in message
news:b2d5317e-a4e7-455e...@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> convicted neighbor Thom Madura wrote:
>>
>> I have proposed a better idea
>>
>> Throughout the bible - there are a number of versions of "Ask in faith
>> and you shall receive" - type quotes.
>
> "Ask for good things in My name and it will be done for you." -- LORD
> Jesus Christ.
OK. I want to reverse the earthquake in China, reverse the typhoon that hit
Myanmar, and I want to know which commodities will have the biggest price
change in the coming week.
Waiting,,,,
>
> Amen.
>
>> Since the jesus believers will simply say - who are you to ask to see
>> jesus - don't do that.
>
> No.
>
> We, who are Jesus' disciples, know we will see HIM.
Sure you do.
Why are you here yakking on usenet instead of doing volunteer medical work
in Darfur?
>
>> Tell them to ask their christ to wipe out hunger in the world by
>> providing food to all who need it-
>
> Providing food to all who need food will simply increase hunger in the
> world.
>
> Hunger is wanting food and not needing it.
>
> Starvation is needing food but no longer wanting it.
Starving people want food, badly.
Enough,,, <snip>
Don Kirkman
<9a5f5bf5-bcf3-4929...@26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com>:
>There is no Christian religion according to what is written in the
>Bible about religion:
>"Religion that GOD our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this:
>to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself
>from being polluted by the world." (James 1:27)
>> > Christianity is a relationship with the risen LORD Jesus Christ and
>> > not a religion.
That's an interesting sleight of mind, to quote one Biblical definition of
Christian religion as proof that there is no such thing as Christian religion.
<g>
It also happens to be one definition of Jewish religion: "He has showed you, O
man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and
to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God." Micah 6:8
Agent Haskell, IRS
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
> >There is no Christian religion according to what is written in the
> >Bible about religion:
>
> >"Religion that GOD our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this:
> >to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself
> >from being polluted by the world." (James 1:27)
>
> >> > Christianity is a relationship with the risen LORD Jesus Christ and
> >> > not a religion.
>
> Christian religion as proof that there is no such thing as Christian religion.
There is no man-made religion where its members have committed themselves "to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world."
Therefore, there is no religion of man that GOD our Father accepts as pure and faultless.
Bottom line:
Your false witness is forgiven by me.
This simply shows that the Holy Spirit is absolutely right to convict you:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts
May we, who are Christians, continue to pray for your perishing soul, dear Don:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/PrayForDon
Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit,
Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com
A latter-day disciple of the KING of kings and LORD of lords.
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/DiscipleNow
Don Kirkman
<1212283...@alibistextweb.com>:
>convicted neighbor Don Kirkman <don...@charter.net> wrote:
>> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>> >There is no Christian religion according to what is written in the
>> >Bible about religion:
>> >"Religion that GOD our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this:
>> >to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself
>> >from being polluted by the world." (James 1:27)
>> >> > Christianity is a relationship with the risen LORD Jesus Christ and
>> >> > not a religion.
>> That's an interesting sleight of mind, to quote one Biblical definition of
>> Christian religion as proof that there is no such thing as Christian religion.
>There is no man-made religion where its members have committed themselves "to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world."
There was nothing about "man-made religion" in your post to which I was
responding, so your response is utterly meaningless.
>Therefore, there is no religion of man that GOD our Father accepts as pure and faultless.
>Bottom line:
>
>Your false witness is forgiven by me.
Nothing to forgive; I answered your point so you tried to change the subject.
>This simply shows that the Holy Spirit is absolutely right to convict you:
This shows you have no integrity whatsoever.
>http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts
>May we, who are Christians, continue to pray for your perishing soul, dear Don:
>http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/PrayForDon
Keep your prayers for yourself.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
>
> Keep your prayers for yourself.
It remains wiser to do what GOD desires rather than either your or my
will.
Marana tha
Prayerfully in the awesome name of LORD Jesus Christ,
Andrew <><
--
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/076ebd277bbfd158?
Mordecai
One of the simplest methods of knowledge of JC is to see of they are a servant
or a master.
A master commands.
A servant permits others to command.
Most of the more hateful people here - claiming to be Christians - command
others - demand of others and are so upright and haughty as to be
intollerable.
Their words and their deeds disagree.
So perchance we will see who does the will of G_d.
The one who says "I will" or the one who does not says so, but rather does it
all the same.
I am going to ask once again not to post to alt.messianic.
it is a simple request - your posts are off topic.
Thank you.
--
Mordecai!
When words and actions disagree, believe actions.
When rhetoric and reality disagree, either rhetoric is wrong or reality is
wrong, and reality is Never wrong.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > convicted neighbor Don Kirkman wrote:
> > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > >
> > > >http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/85ff745f696bd77b?
> > >
> > > Keep your prayers for yourself.
> >
> > It remains wiser to do what GOD desires rather than either your or my
> > will.
>
> or a master.
> A master commands.
> A servant permits others to command.
>
> Most of the more hateful people here - claiming to be Christians - command
> others - demand of others and are so upright and haughty as to be
> intollerable.
> Their words and their deeds disagree.
>
> So perchance we will see who does the will of G_d.
> The one who says "I will" or the one who does not says so, but rather does it
> all the same.
>
> I am going to ask once again not to post to alt.messianic.
> it is a simple request
That would be your will (what you want) and not what GOD desires:
"You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden.
Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they
put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In
the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your
good deeds and praise your Father in heaven." -- LORD Jesus Christ
(Matthew 5:14-16)
Amen.
> - your posts are off topic.
Not for the discerning, who know and understand that Jesus Christ is
the Messiah:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/0c3afaa63ed88a72?
> Thank you.
Laus Deo
May you and other dear neighbors have a blessedly wonderful 2008th
year since the birth of our LORD Jesus Christ as the Son of Man ...
... by being hungrier:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/f891e617d10bd689?
Hunger is wonderful ! ! !
It's how we know what GOD desires, which is all that is good.
Yes, hunger is our knowledge of good versus evil that Adam and Eve
paid for with their and our immortal lives.
"Blessed are you who hunger NOW...
... for you will be satisfied." -- LORD Jesus Christ (Luke 6:21)
Amen.
Here is a Spirit-guided exegesis of Luke 6:21 given in hopes of
promoting much greater understanding:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/cc2aa8f8a4d41360?
Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be healthier...
Mordecai
"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" wrote:
Sigh ...
OK - but I do not like your good deeds.
And it seems that few others also respond in a similar way.
I wonder - who else on these NG's you troll are induced to praise your father in
heaven?
BTW - do you think JC went about using tactics like this?
Have you any story of this sort of behaviour?
If he did - i am sure I would not like him. A most ... disagreeable in your face
overbearing person or so it seems to me.
But if this is who he is ... I will accept your testimony of him.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
>
> Sigh ...
> OK - but I do not like your good deeds.
The deeds are good because they are what GOD desires.
HE is the frame of reference.
GOD is the Author of all reality.
> And it seems that few others also respond in a similar way.
Suggested reading:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9adc500316e28fce?
May you and other dear neighbors, friends, and brethren have a
Mordecai
Not according to the verse you quoted ... I am to SEE these good deeds ... and then
praise G_d in heaven because of them
Ergo I am to understand they are good works.
He has placed the judgement of good works into our hands - so we might see.
This is the light you are shining - your good deeds as seen by us.
This is the problem when "your words" and "reality" clash ...reality allows you to
measure your ideas and to test to see if the ideas are true or false.
You see - the heart is deceitful above all and who can know it?
Yet it is by deeds is your heart revealed.
If your heart is good, you must bring good deeds.
If your heart is wicked, you bring forth fruit which reflects your wicked heart.
Ergo by your deeds is your heart known.
When you remove judgement from here and now - and say "only G_d is allowed to judge me
and my deeds" you have removed the one method available to you to see your own heart ...
and thus the deceits of your heart are hidden from your eyes ... and sin abounds.
This is very foolish indeed.
But it is your choice after all.
I have spoken over long.
My job is not to teach christians how to follow JC.
However, I do recommend that if you are a christian, you might perchance do this.
But you will undoubtedly say to yourself "People need to hear my message - I am doing
good"
And thus deceive yourself that this justifies your actions.
Or the ends justify the means ...
Or that it is OK to do evil if good comes of it.
Sigh. This REALLY is not only the theoretical, but also the practical result of such a
choice as you have demonstrated.
OK ... have a good life.
I cannot prevent your actions ... but I will not become a party to it.
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
The verse is GOD-breathed,
> I am to SEE these good deeds ...
Your reading this means you are seeing this.
> and then
> praise G_d in heaven because of them
May you be wise and do so.
> Ergo I am to understand they are good works.
May your heart be made discerning in order to know what GOD desires
(i.e. all that is good).
Kurt Brown
http://www.angelfire.com/zine2/democracyordeath/index.html
Daily Foreword June 1, 2008: Yesterday, I, Kurt Brown, alias Saint Ram Bone,
went to a Wal-Mart in Mobile County Alabama and I was followed from the
highway by a truck with State license plates from Alabama, and they almost
rammed me when they were trying to cut me off and get into the parking lot
before I did after I had departed the interstate. When I went inside to
purchase insulin medicine for a long time friend who is financially
incapable of buying the medicine and who had no transportation, a man who
was in a government outfit with his radio with the microphone on his
shoulder and his radio on his side stood behind me, crowding me. Then a man
who was like one of those punk federal agents who harasses the innocent in
Mobile Alabama walked by, looked at me and told the agent behind me that he
was doing a good job. I bought the medicine and left. After I paid for
it, after I had reached into my front pocket for my wallet, the undercover
agent said, "I thought he had a gun." I once owned a gun and I would have
used it to defend myself after I had been attacked with no response from the
federal government, which is a war criminal needing to be sacked. The regime
does not want us to own guns, as they want us to die if we get in the way of
their top financial war criminals. We should have attacked the FBI for
attacking David Koresh in Waco. The regime is our enemy, they are the
enemies to humane mankind.
In Alabama the federal government beats down the poor, the poor of any race.
Our race relations are not an issue but the federal and local government
treats us as their lesser. They have labeled me a terrorist. I am
considering signing up as a soldier with an army to be formed under a
Socialist or Communist agenda with a Positive Capitalist outlook whose goal
will be to remove the Negative Capitalists, including their Casino money
launderers and marijuana and cocaine smugglers and top syndicates in the
Democrat and Republican parties, who are the wealthy war criminal pigs
supporting forced injections of the innocent and compliant and the murder of
innocent and astute top banking regulators.
Never serve the regime in power. Never trust them. They treat us as their
lessers and beat us from government. When we help the poor as I did, they
still have their talons drawn.
So I pray to God today for this, "Dear God, make the federal dictator in
Alabama and Washington D.C. and beyond and their war criminal actors and
actions to be removed from our lives, both in public and private". I
turned to the Biblical book of Proverbs, 25-11, to point to what should be
heard this morning, and it read, "A word aptly spoken, is like apples of
gold in settings of silver." The regime pretends to care for us. They
follow and harass the innocent. My life is in ruins since FDIC employment
and now they not only follow me to my home to harass me as posted and seen
in Saintrambone's youtube.com videos, but they follow me into a store when I
am spending my meager funds to help a sick and ailing and aging woman who
has been robbed by the government because she chose to sign on the dotted
line so medical care could be provided for an orphaned child.
When I see the W on people's autos in Mobile Alabama, I think they are
naive, do not care or are in league with the the thing which represents W,
and it crawls in on its stomach. Let us welcome the coming of the global
war and the removal of the tick from the top of USA government. Never again
serve the regime. I encourage all not to use crack cocaine in Alabama and
I commend the growing racial harmony. We are all one flesh if we are humane
humans. Nothing is perfect in this life, so continue forward in the
evolving and descending imperfections. We have no other course or re-course
but to help each other, and that means getting the federal war criminals
from our life, from our stumps. Never again serve the regime. Never again
trust anything the government does. Be very wary in their government
buildings. Our worst enemy is at the top of the world empire.
Aaron
JA, Nope. Your cut-and-pasted arguemant is not based on all the
available facts, Tanakh passages, and even disagrees with the Talmud.
>
>In the first place, Jews DID reject jesus as the Messiah - that's an
>histroical fact.
It is a Historical fact that SOME Jews did reject Yshu`a. While
various scholars have various theories on the populations of Israel in
30CE, the average of the various theories of the Population and the
average of the various theories of the Number of Jews living in Israel
who believed that Yshu`a was the Messiah gives a fairly constant 14%
believing that he was the Messiah. So, you would certainly be correct
to say that MOST Jews did not accept Yshu`a, but then many if not most
never bothered to consider the question. We have no way of knowing
how many jews were just too busy trying to survive a Roman military
occupation to bother with new theological questions. So, "reject" is
not really the right word; the phrase "did not accept" would be more
accurate.
.
>
>Second, anyone who is the least familiar with xian and jewish doctrine can
>see that the writer, who is a Jewish scholar, deals with material in the
>Torah that pertains to a messiah.
You have touched on two of the problems with this claim.
1: Not all of the material that the supposed "scholar" uses acctually
applies to the questions that he raises.
2: Christian doctrine does not agree with the NT. The Author
frequently attcks false theologies that are only part of one to four
denominations of Christianity. Messianic Judaism rejects a number of
Christian theologies that are incomatable with the Torah. It is worth
noting that these same theologies are incompatable with the NT as well
as with the Torah.
>
>Third, if jesus is the actual meassiah, and rose from the dead, then produce
>him and let him prove his existence and powers - it's that SIMPLE.
To entertain your question is a reasonable manner:
An Atheist might ask that HaShem prove Himself in the same manner, and
recieve the same results. HaShem has already proven himself. IF
(still entertaining your question) Yshu`a is the Messiah, and IF the
NT is true (in the original Hebrew), then the NT says that HaShem
chose to prevent the majority of Jews from recognizing the Messiah so
that the Gentiles would accept Him. So, if Yshu`a is the Messiah His
proof might be as simple as refusing to prove himself. (Yeah, I know
that is circular, the irony is a little bit funny though.)
>
>
Aaron
wrote:
>> examination. It addresses more of Christianity's rejection of the
>> teachings of Yshu`a than it does the identity of the Messiah. I have
>> already written a responce, though my original is color coded to make
>> the speakers easy to identify ( not really workable on usenet).
>> However, I have not seen any Messianic Jews here for years. It used
>> to be Messianic Jews, a few non-Messianic Jews and a few well-meaning
>> Christians who loved Jewish people. Now it is mostly anti-Semites
>> argueing over which is the correct way to hate Jews. As such, I think
>> it would be better of me not to post something which could be misused
>> by anti-Semites.
>>
>> Cactus, in the past, you have been well mannered and reasonable.
>> Despite the fact that I disagree with you on some points, I respect
>> your opinion and your right to disagree with me. Unfortunately, I
>> cannot say that of most of the people who post and cross post here.
>
>Thank you!
>>
>> I do not know JA, but I am sure that he or she (I don't know what JA
>> stand for) believes what he or she posted. I also note that it was
>> quoted from the same sourse that I used years ago. So, I know that JA
>> did not add anything hateful into what was cut and pasted.
>>
>> I had been gon from this NG for some time. when I check on it a few
>> months ago, there were too many anti-Semites to bother posting. It
>> might actually be getting worse.
>>
>> Once this was a group where Messianic Jews could exchange ideas, where
>> Hebrew Christians could learn to return to Judaism (Yes, I define
>> Messianic Jew and Hebrew Christian very differently), where Jews who
>> do not accept Yshu`a as Messiah could express there ideas rationally
>> and expect a rational, if opposing, reply. Now, everytime I read in
>> this NG my opinion of Christianity drops. It is hardly a wonder that
>> somone who does not know the difference between Hebrew Christianity
>> and Messianic Judaism would think that Messianic Jews are wrong. If
>> you believe that we agree with Christians, you have been misinformed
>> about us, but I can see where you would want to help deliver jews from
>> Christianity if you believe that these bigots are representatives of
>> Christianity (and I believe that they are more honest that most
>> pastors). No Jew should EVER become a Christian, but that does not
>> mean that we can't follow Messiah. we may differ on opinions of the
>> identity of Messiah, but as lond as we do not worship or pray to
>> anyone we think is the Messiah, we can disagree in a respectful
>> manner.
>>
>> I would say: Don't blame Rebe Yshu`a ben Yosef for what Christians
>> have done and are doing. Their actions are their own and they are not
>> guided by HaShem or even by their own version of the Bible.
>>
>I do not agree that one can both be Jewish and accept Jesus of Nazareth
>as the messiah because that would violate the Second Commandment.
>
>OTOH I do not mind if other people hold that belief, PROVIDED that they
>do not spread lies about Judaism.
Belief that Yshu`a is Messiah dose not violate the Second Commandment;
PRAYING to or WORSHIPING Him, as Christians do, DOES. That is a major
conflict between Messianic Judaism and Christianity. Messianic Jews
are often reviled by Christians because we refuse to commit idolatry.
>
>
>>
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
>
> Belief that Yshu`a is Messiah dose not violate the Second Commandment;
> PRAYING to or WORSHIPING Him, as Christians do, DOES.
We, who are Christians, pray to GOD as Jesus has taught us...
"Our Father, Who is in heaven
Holy is Your name
Your kingdom come
Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven
Give us today our daily bread
Forgive us our sins
as we have forgiven those who have sinned against us
Lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil."
Amen.
> That is a major
> conflict between Messianic Judaism and Christianity.
Then this major conflict does not exist. See above.
> Messianic Jews
> are often reviled by Christians because we refuse to commit idolatry.
Praying to GOD the Father, in Jesus' name is not idolatry.
We, who are Christians, do it mindful of Jesus' promise that all good things we ask for in HIS name will be done for us.
This is why Jesus is our Messiah/Savior (Kinsman-Redeemer).
May this also be why Jesus is your Messiah.
"My Father is in ME as I am in the Father. Now that you know ME, you know MY Father,.Who sent ME." -- LORD Jesus Christ.
Amen.
May you and other dear neighbors, friends, and brethren have a blessedly wonderful 2008th year since the birth of our LORD Jesus Christ as the Messiah...
.. by being hungrier:
http://TruthRUS.org/KnowingGOD
Hunger is wonderful:
It's how we know what GOD desires, which is all that is good.
Yes, hunger is our knowledge of good versus evil that Adam and Eve paid for with their and our immortal lives.
Those who suffer from the powerful delusion predicted by the prophecy of 2 Thessalonians 2:9-11 would deny this and perish ( gone !!! ) forever ...
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/CrazyOne
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/CrazyTwo
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/CrazyThree
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/CrazyFour
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/Bob
.. gone:
http://YouTube.com/watch?v=Qb6d_z5C35E
Such will be the demise of all those who refuse to know **and** love the truth, Who is LORD Jesus Christ:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Love/TheTruth
Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be blessed:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/BeBlessed
"Blessed are you who hunger NOW...
.. for you will be satisfied." -- LORD Jesus Christ (Luke 6:21)
Amen.
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Luke6_21
A simple parable for the wise and discerning:
Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be healthier:
http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/BeHealthy
Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit,
Andrew <><
J A
"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <ach...@emory.edu> wrote in message
news:1212411...@alibistextweb.com...
> friend Aaron <an...@home.net> wrote:
>>
>> Belief that Yshu`a is Messiah dose not violate the Second Commandment;
>> PRAYING to or WORSHIPING Him, as Christians do, DOES.
>
> We, who are Christians, pray to GOD as Jesus has taught us...
Jesus prayed to yahweh, not to himself.
Jesus was a jew and did not pray to idols like crosses.
Also, why have you taken to tampering with the newsgroup addresses, like
that monkturd does?
Mordecai
J A wrote:
Possible because I had a discussion with him and explained to him about
fruit, and tried to teach him about Christianity and what it really taught.
That a Jew has to teach christians about how to do their own religion is a
shame to both religions.
But I am not interested in raising conflict - or condemning others.
Perchance he has learned that good deeds are their own reward.
If so - it is good.
If not, that is his choice and he has to live with the consequences.
I can only try to show him the choice where he can change his deeds ... and
leave him free to choose.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> satan via a sockpuppet (corporeal demon) despairingly posted:
> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> >
> >
> > Jesus prayed to yahweh, not to himself.
> >
> > Jesus was a jew and did not pray to idols like crosses.
> >
> > Also, why have you taken to tampering with the newsgroup addresses, like
> > that monkturd does?
>
> Possible because I had a discussion with him and explained to him about
> fruit, and tried to teach him about Christianity and what it really taught.
It would be wise for you, dear friend, to refrain from acting like
those whom GOD hates:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/4128be9f9918d825?
May you and other dear friends have a blessedly wonderful 2008th year
since the birth of our LORD Jesus Christ as the Son of Man ...
... by being hungrier:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/f891e617d10bd689?
Hunger is wonderful ! ! !
It's how we know what GOD desires, which is all that is good.
Yes, hunger is our knowledge of good versus evil that Adam and Eve
paid for with their and our immortal lives.
"Blessed are you who hunger NOW...
... for you will be satisfied." -- LORD Jesus Christ (Luke 6:21)
Amen.
Here is a Spirit-guided exegesis of Luke 6:21 given in hopes of
promoting much greater understanding:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/cc2aa8f8a4d41360?
Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be healthier...
Marana tha
Prayerfully in the awesome name of LORD Jesus Christ,
Andrew <><
--
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3558812d72ab4e17?
Mordecai
"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" wrote:
> friend Mordecai wrote:
> > satan via a sockpuppet (corporeal demon) despairingly posted:
> > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > >
> > > > http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/257caebfa41b1d0e?
> > >
> > > Jesus prayed to yahweh, not to himself.
> > >
> > > Jesus was a jew and did not pray to idols like crosses.
> > >
> > > Also, why have you taken to tampering with the newsgroup addresses, like
> > > that monkturd does?
> >
> > Possible because I had a discussion with him and explained to him about
> > fruit, and tried to teach him about Christianity and what it really taught.
>
> It would be wise for you, dear friend, to refrain from acting like
> those whom GOD hates:
No - I did teach you about fruit - and I did teach you about the inner heart and
how JC was supposed to change it.
You testified first to my motives for i declared my intention that I want you to
stop posting off topic material to his NG ... and you said that this is what I
wanted.
Later - you testified that I was praising you and testifying of your fruit!
After such a blatant lie ... which you yourself have testified is a lie ... you
dare to tell me this?
Speak not to me who has told the truth - speak to yourself who has done evil and
justified yourself with a lie.
If you wish to deceive yourself - fine.
But obvious, overt, public hypocrisy like this does not stand well.
This is the problem when you refuse to judge yourself.
You become a hypocrite as part of the process of self delusion.
I might not know much but the psychology JC preached ... WORKS.
Which is why I taught it to you.
You did not believe him, you did not believe me ...
Can you at least believe your own actions and deeds for these also (a third
witness) speak against you?
J A
"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <lov...@thetruth.com> wrote in message
news:32aafe6f-f60b-46f1...@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com...
> friend Mordecai wrote:
>> satan via a sockpuppet (corporeal demon) despairingly posted:
>> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>> >
>> > > http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/257caebfa41b1d0e?
>> >
>> > Jesus prayed to yahweh, not to himself.
>> >
>> > Jesus was a jew and did not pray to idols like crosses.
>> >
>> > Also, why have you taken to tampering with the newsgroup addresses,
>> > like
>> > that monkturd does?
>> Possible because I had a discussion with him and explained to him about
>> fruits, and tried to teach him about Christianity and what it really
>> taught.
Well, as wacky as Andrew is, it's entirely likely that he's a fruit.
You know his "wife" ran off, right?
Mordecai
J A wrote:
> "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <lov...@thetruth.com> wrote in message
> news:32aafe6f-f60b-46f1...@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com...
> > friend Mordecai wrote:
> >> satan via a sockpuppet (corporeal demon) despairingly posted:
> >> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/257caebfa41b1d0e?
> >> >
> >> > Jesus prayed to yahweh, not to himself.
> >> >
> >> > Jesus was a jew and did not pray to idols like crosses.
> >> >
> >> > Also, why have you taken to tampering with the newsgroup addresses,
> >> > like
> >> > that monkturd does?
>
> >> Possible because I had a discussion with him and explained to him about
> >> fruits, and tried to teach him about Christianity and what it really
> >> taught.
>
> Well, as wacky as Andrew is, it's entirely likely that he's a fruit.
>
> You know his "wife" ran off, right?
Nope - and I do not care to know as it does not effect me at all.
I am merely interested in keeping the many cross posts of non relevant material
from flooding alt.messianic to the point that the NG is closed down by these non
relevant posts.
It has reached the stage that 95% of the information on the NG is this sort of
post.
So I am wasting time and money reading and discarding things which are not
relevant.
It does not do anything to me except to predispose me against the poster.
And their casual indifference - of the outcome of their unthinking actions.
And these idiots think I ought to be ... grateful to them - for their poison!
Phaghghhhh
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> satan via a sockpuppet (corporeal demon) despairingly posted:
> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > > friend Mordecai wrote:
> > >> satan via a sockpuppet (corporeal demon) despairingly posted:
> > >> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/257caebfa41b1d0e?
> > >> >
> > >> > Jesus prayed to yahweh, not to himself.
> > >> >
> > >> > Jesus was a jew and did not pray to idols like crosses.
> > >> >
> > >> > Also, why have you taken to tampering with the newsgroup addresses,
> > >> > like
> > >> > that monkturd does?
> >
> > >> Possible because I had a discussion with him and explained to him about
> > >> fruits, and tried to teach him about Christianity and what it really
> > >> taught.
> >
> > Well, as wacky as Andrew is, it's entirely likely that he's a fruit.
> >
> > You know his "wife" ran off, right?
>
> Nope - and I do not care to know as it does not effect me at all.
Actually, permitting satan to spread his lies without rebuking him is
what caused Adam and Eve to fall from GOD's grace.
This shows that you are among the lost:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/eb42672896d36d4b
The disciples of the Messiah are neither perfect nor more special...
... we are simply forgiven by GOD:
http://www.interviewwithgod.com/forgiven
May you wisely choose to be forgiven too by publicly declaring with
your mouth that "Jesus is LORD:"
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/fcb058da12bb3f3d
Prayerfully in the awesome name of LORD Jesus Christ,
Andrew <><
--
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/4128be9f9918d825?
Mordecai
> I am merely interested in keeping the many cross posts of non relevant material
> from flooding alt.messianic to the point that the NG is closed down by these non
> relevant posts.
>
> It has reached the stage that 95% of the information on the NG is this sort of
> post.
> So I am wasting time and money reading and discarding things which are not
> relevant.
>
> It does not do anything to me except to predispose me against the poster.
> And their casual indifference - of the outcome of their unthinking actions.
>
> And these idiots think I ought to be ... grateful to them - for their poison!
> Phaghghhhh
This NG was set up to allow Christians and jews to talk.
It was something special from the most high from the start - but with everything of
G_d, along comes satan.
And he has sent his minions ... one christian after another after another.
These - proclaiming they come in the name of JC but they did not ... speaking lies and
deceits, cursing and swearing - contending and preventing discussion.
And though they testified like you that they are christians - their DEEDS testify that
they are the sons of satan.
And we are told how to know this - we look at their fruit.
Now along comes a new attack - those who flood the NG.
And they seek to destroy that which G_d has made - differently.
And they speak with authority - G_d has blessed us and we do well ... but neither have
they been sent, nor do they do well.
And satan abounds through their wilful sin.
Aaron
>
>"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <ach...@emory.edu> wrote in message
>news:1212411...@alibistextweb.com...
>> friend Aaron <an...@home.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Belief that Yshu`a is Messiah dose not violate the Second Commandment;
>>> PRAYING to or WORSHIPING Him, as Christians do, DOES.
>>
>> We, who are Christians, pray to GOD as Jesus has taught us...
>
>Jesus prayed to yahweh, not to himself.
True!
(though we don't really know the vowels for YHVH)
>
>Jesus was a jew and did not pray to idols like crosses.
True!
At that time the Cross was the symbol of the cult of Mithra in. The
Jews had beeb in captivity in Babylon when the Cross was the symbol of
the "sungod" Tamuz, and when the Persians conquered babylon and
combined the cults of Mithra and Tammuz adopting the Cross for the new
combined "sungod." Thus the Jews, including Jesus saw the cross as a
sign of evil. It might also be noted that fasting on Sunday has been
forbidden in Judaism ever since the Babylonian Exile because one must
rest while fasting and The cult of Mithra/Tamuz was so evil that Jews
did not want to be associated with it even by accident (the biblical
prohibition against the "appearance of evil").
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > > satan via a sockpuppet (corporeal demon) despairingly posted:
> > > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
Actually alt.messianic is an unmoderated usenet newsgroup whose name
indicates that written posts should be somewhat about the Messiah.
> It was something special from the most high from the start - but with everything of
> G_d, along comes satan.
Incorrect.
Heaven is of GOD and satan remains banished from there since being
cast out:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/6b5ed2ca868902b1?
> And he has sent his minions ... one christian after another after another.
You seem to have willfully forgotten that the Messiah credited a
gentile (a centurion) with more faith than HE has ever seen in all of
Israel.
This simply shows that the Holy Spirit is absolutely right to convict
you:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/1b584f9c6852c5fd?
You do not have much longer, dear Mordecai:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/af84eabdd6f54ef1?
May you wisely choose to repent soon by publicly declaring with your
mouth that "Jesus is LORD..."
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/fcb058da12bb3f3d
...thereby becoming a true Messianic (Christian) Jew.
Thom Madura
Since the messiah was supposed to come to the jews - AND
Since a Messiah has not yet come to the jews
THen this is all speculation of the future.
monkfish
The best way to deal with trolls is
to ignore them completely and to post
as many on-topic and substantive messages as possible.
--
monkfish
* The followup-to header is set to alt.christnet.theology.
** alt.atheism is removed from the groups header.
J A
"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <lo...@thetruth.com> wrote in message
news:e519f527-06c1-4f50...@k30g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
Instead of an intellect, you have a cartoon repetitiously running through
what's left of your mind.
Mordecai
Thom Madura wrote:
The newsgroup was set up because the missionaries were flooding jewish only
newsgroups with their ... theology.
It was set up so that the jews who were willing to talk would - and the rest were to
be left alone.
Naturally the missionaries refused to do this ... and continued to flood the jewish
groups so they became moderated as the only defence possible.
But alt.messianic remained.
On alt.messianic, the issue of "Messiah" was discussed many times. The Christian
concept of messiah is ... alien ... to the jewish concept of messiah.
As for the rest ... the history of alt.messianic ...
At the beginning, many christians came and preached or talked and things were learned
on both sides.
Other christians came and persecuted the christians who were not as ... evangelical
and hard nosed as themselves.
So the people persecuted were Christians and their crime was to talk to Jews.
And these intolerant - hard nosed and egotistical blind christian fools have
destroyed the NG.
And now we have another asshole doing the same thing!
Sigh ...
You can lead a horse to water but you cannot convince a christian (or I suppose any
religious extremist) that they are doing evil.
If you want to watch this - come to alt.messianic and see the latest one (Randy) who
came in a loud voice claiming "see the Orthodox jews are converting" and the
"example" he got from his own church does not even know about a Jewish wedding!
Now he is explaining how he was totally justified within the situation - and at the
same time preaching "See orthodox jews are still converting" all at the same time.
He, just like Andrew, cannot be wrong.
Self justification -self deceit - rationalization ... YECH.
Zen Cohen
....>
> This simply shows that the Holy Spirit is absolutely right to convict
> you:
>
There you go again, Andrewsatan, convicting an intelligent poster whose
views are simply different from yours. And you do so with such enthusiasm.
>
> You do not have much longer, dear Mordecai:
You'd better hope there's no karma, comeuppance, or a just god, because if
any of these things exist, you'll have hell to pay.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
The Messiah did come to Israel as a Jewish carpenter from Nazareth.
Many Jews rejected HIM as their Messiah and crucified HIM.
However, a remnant (Messianic/Christian Jews) loved HIM and became HIS
disciples.
This reminds us of how Esau rejected his birthright...
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/4128be9f9918d825?
... thereby earning GOD's hatred.
Let all those who love GOD with all their hearts, souls, minds, and
strength learn from this.
May we, who love GOD with all our being, continue to pray for your
perishing soul, dear Thom:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3cef85cf7bd411d0?
Prayerfully in the awesome name of LORD Jesus Christ,
Andrew <><
--
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9adc500316e28fce?
Sam Taylor
ALL JEWS ARE MESSIANIC! even though they might not believe in Your
Messiah.
Jews seek Messiah, and have since moses.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
J A
"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <lo...@thetruth.com> wrote in message
news:19698079-3c86-44c0...@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
The gospels of the New Testament contradict each other on important points.
These books were written decades after the crucifixion by unknown authors.
Even the dating of the birth of Jesus in the gospels is unclear and contains
misstatements of fact.
The Gospel according to Luke says that Jesus was born in the year when
Caesar Augustus ordered a census for the purpose of taxation and that this
happened at a time when Herod reigned in Judea and when Quirinius was
governor of Syria.
The problem is that Herod died four years before Christ and that during his
time of ruling, the governor of Syria was not Quirinius . The only
historical mention of a census ordered by Augustus was by the Jewish
historian Josephus, but that happened six years after Jesus was supposed to
have been born, and did not require people to return to their places of
birth.
Probably, the reason for all this confusion stems from the fact that the Old
Testament prediction for Messiah has him coming from Bethlehem. Big
problem -- Jesus's parents were apparently from the town of Nazareth and if
they had a child he probably would have been delivered there.
It's all a manmade myth.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Not for the discerning:
http://www.iamcs.org/WhatWeBelieve.php
This simply shows that the Holy Spirit is absolutely right to convict
you:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/1b584f9c6852c5fd
You do not have much longer, dear Mordecai:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/af84eabdd6f54ef1?
May you wisely choose to repent by publicly declaring with your mouth
that "Yeshua (Jesus) is LORD:"
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/fcb058da12bb3f3d