The heresy in Messianic Judaism
vince garcia
2 cor 3:
7 But if the MINISTRATION OF DEATH, written and engraven in stones [the
10 commandments and covenant of the Law], was glorious, so that the
children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the
glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the
ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect,
by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that WHICH IS DONE AWAY was glorious, much more that which
remaineth is glorious.
GALATIANS CHAPTER 5
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us
free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.*
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall
profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a
debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified
by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth anything, nor
uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the
truth?
8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.
9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.
* Paul is referring to the very "yoke" that the Judaiser of then, and
the heretic of today, seek to place upon the neck of Gentile believers:
observance of the Torah (see verse 3, Mathew 11: 28-30, and Acts
15:7-10).
Despite the attempts of heretics to hold onto Law with one hand, and
grace with the other, the Law was--and is--a "yoke of bondage," and not
the completion of one's walk with God, nor do more than its basic moral
principles have any place in the Gentile Christian's life. The reason
for this--and the reason why I belabor the point--is that while Paul
accepted Jews continuing in Torah observance (1 Cor. 7:18 and Romans
14:2), not once did he ever tolerate Gentiles being
taught to keep the various Sabbath, cultural or dietary aspects of it
(Gal. 4:10, Col. 2:16, 1 Tim. 1: 3-11). This is because a non-Jew who
embraces any of these points of the Law will be moving--not forward, but
backwards in the faith if he adopts them.
When a man comes to salvation in Christ, he has reached a point of
enlightenment that can either grow or wither, depending on the doctrines
he embraces from that point. If he is taught that God now requires or
calls on him to keep various Torah commands, he is now spiritually
retreating into the shadows and joining the Jews of Romans 14 who were
"weak in the faith," rather than walking forward with the ranks of the
"strong". If he then continues in the lie that Torah observance is a
mandated part of the Christian faith, he will move further and further
from truth, and the end result will be divisions and heresies along
these lines:
1. He will focus more on the Old Testament than the New, and embrace
teachings by so-called "Torah observant" Messianics that the Law must be
kept by every generation. He will consider denial of that position a
doctrine of devils.
2. He will stop using the name Jesus, and call Him Yeshua--not to be
more accurate, but as a denunciation and repudiation of "Gentile
Christianity and its Gentile Jesus" that should be rejected by the
"true" followers of God who keep Torah. He will no longer consider
himself a part of the normal Christian community, but instead a part of
the Messianic community of believers.
3. He will make a personal choice to reject traditional Christian
observances like Easter or Christmas--which, in our society, are in the
crosshairs of the Godless, Satan-inspired politicians and judges--but
then go beyond that to denounce and belittle those who do participate in
them.
4. He will reject orthodox contemporary or historic Gentile Christian
theologians--whom God used mightily to teach and proclaim the Gospel--in
favor of unpedigreed modern Messianic teachers attacking traditional
Christian biblical interpretation. He will come to view the Jewish
Talmud, and the writings of Christ-rejecting Orthodox rabbis, as more
edifying than the writings of Augustine, Luther, Calvin, Knox, Wesley,
and so on.
5. He will claim that his particular group is an example of real
Christianity, and that standard Catholic and Protestant denominations
have lost the true teachings of Christ and the apostles, injecting hosts
of pagan teachings, holidays, and beliefs in their place. In connection
with this, he will adopt an attitude of elitism and pride, considering
Christians and denominations that reject Sabbath and Torah observance to
be in deception--or, at worst, heretics following Satan and the
Antichrist.
6. He will deny the "New Covenant," and instead claim a "Renewed
Covenant," which retains Torah observance. He may reject using the term
Old Testament, considering the Law and the teachings of how to observe
it therein to be equally binding on believers with the writings of the
New Testament.
7. He will ultimately deny the reliability of the New Testament itself.
If confronted about his beliefs with verses that contradict his views,
he will insist those verses are mistranslated, misunderstood, or perhaps
were added by the Catholic Church.
8. He will claim that the New Testament was originally written in
Hebrew, and then go on to seek someone's reconstructed
Hebrew-translation New Testament--which will contradict the Greek New
Testament on key issues and verses--but fit his preconceived notions
about the need for Torah observance.
9. If unable to refute a criticism of his beliefs by those using New
Testament Scripture, he may reject the writings of Paul altogether, and
label him a false prophet. (This has happened with Snow here!)
10. He may come to believe that only those who keep the Jewish Law,
while acknowledging Christ as Messiah, will enter into eternal life, and
everyone else will be damned.
11. He will reach the point where he has "fallen from grace" and Christ
'profits him nothing' when he becomes consciously secure and certain of
his salvation because he acknowledges Yeshua as Messiah--and is "keeping
the Commandments of God".
All these unpleasant things illustrate the deception it is possible to
slip into if, just like the Galatians Paul wrote to, one accepts
Christ's redemption, but then comes to believe he must also keep the
Jewish Torah to be in right standing with God. This is why the Christian
church must stand up and denounce those--including some deceived
ministers on Christian TV--who are advocating various levels of Torah
observance, from Sabbatarianism to keeping the various Jewish Feasts and
tithes (typically, as a formula of witchcraft to gain material
prosperity from God). To do otherwise is to allow error into the church
and "give place to the devil".
To be clear, I am not saying that we should reject the Old Testament,
and need not study it. Rather, I am upholding the Christian precepts
that there is a New--not renewed--Covenant that does not include or
mandate Torah observance; and that Christianity must interpret the Old
Testament through the New, rather than interpret the New through the Old
as the Judaiser teaches.
That is the heresy pervading Messianic Judaism, and what defines much of
it--but certainly not all of it--as a heretical movement to be avoided
and denounced from the pulpit.
copyright by Vince Garcia
John Gardner
Boy, I'm glad I'm just a heretic. I was worried I was turning into a
Communist -- especially when I read those "11 Warning Signs You Might Be a
___". Yuh cain't never be too careful, eh, Vince baby?
You might want to chew on this from Yeshua, your Messiah:
Matt. 5:17-19 (ASV):
17 Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to
destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or
one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be
accomplished.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and
shall teach men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven: but
whosoever shall do and teach them, he shall be called great in the kingdom
of heaven.
Or this, from Psalm 19:7 (ASV):
"The law of Jehovah is perfect, restoring the soul: The testimony of Jehovah
is sure, making wise the simple." Does God change? Not if you believe
Malachi 3:6. Does Jesus change? Not if you believe Heb. 13:8. Jesus came to
free us from the law of sin and death -- NOT from the Law of the LORD.
You may want to think about this, from Paul in Romans 7 (ASV):
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Howbeit, I had not
known sin, except through the law ...
12 So that the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and righteous, and
good...
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin."
Or hear what Paul said in his legal defence before Festus in Acts 25:8:
"Paul said in his defense, Neither against the law of the Jews, nor against
the temple, nor against Caesar, have I sinned at all" Remember, Paul was
under oath in a life or death case AND HIGH JEWISH OFFICIALS WERE IN THE
COURTROOM. Odd that (1) No-one accused Paul of Torah breaking; (2) Paul did
not bad-mouth the Torah at all!
What would you have said in his place, Vince?
You accuse me of many things I don't teach, and apparently you understand
almost nothing about what I do teach. Yahweh is my God; Yeshua is my
Saviour. I don't need your approval. It's probably a waste of time to slog
through your mudfield. But I will respond to your silly little Eleven
Warning Signs of Heresy.
You say:
1. He )the Hereticv) will focus more on the Old Testament than the New and
embrace teachings that the Law must be kept by every generation. He will
consider denial of that position a doctrine of devils.
Where did I do that, say that or teach that? I quoted Yeshua awhile ago in
Matt. 5. His words, not mine. You might have a different take on what Christ
meant, but I don't embrace any "teachings" in conflict with His Word.
You say,
2) He will stop using the name Jesus, and call Him Yeshua--not to be more
accurate, but as a denunciation and repudiation of "Gentile
Christianity" ... [and he] will no longer consider
himself a part of the normal Christian community, but instead a part ofthe
Messianic community of believers.
Golly, Gomer, ya got me there. I kinda thought Yeshua was a better rendering
of Matt. 1:21 (ASV): 21 And she shall bring forth a son; and thou shalt call
his name JESUS; for it is he that shall save his people from their sins."
Does the name "Jesus" have to do with saving from sins? No. But yeshu'a
means in Hebrew "Salvation of Jah." Our Messiah was born into an
Aramaic/Hebrew speaking family in a Hebrew culture where names have
meanings. But I guess you know better, Vince baby! Maybe you can tell me
when "calling Our Messiah Jee-zus" became an article of your faith?
Oh, yeah, the separating part .. actually, my family and I go to a Torah
Class on Saturday and a Mennonite Brethren church on Sunday. Guess we forgot
about the "rejecting" part.
You say
(3) He will make a personal choice to reject traditional Christian
observances like Easter or Christmas.
Golly, Vince, I didn't know these WERE "traditional Christian observances"!
Funny, neither is described or encouraged in the NT, apart from the Lord's
Supper - which we do indeed keep. The Anabaptists, Puritans & Plymouth
Brethren didn't do this stuff either - guess they don't make your grade. But
the Catholics were just wild about these feasats, so I guess they do make
your grade.
To my knowledge, I have never told anybody to keep Christmas. Nor have I
ever told anybody not to. My family celebrates Chanukka AND the Nativity of
our Lord -- but, not being Catholic, we don't do ANY Mass, including
Christ-Mass.
You say,
(4) He will reject orthodox contemporary or historic Gentile Christian
theologians ... in
favor of unpedigreed modern Messianic teachers attacking traditional
Christian biblical interpretation. He will come to view the Jewish
Talmud, and the writings of Christ-rejecting Orthodox rabbis, as more
edifying than the writings of Augustine, Luther, Calvin, Knox, Wesley, and
so on.
Well, that's pretty wild, dude. You find Augustine edifying? You really like
an ecclesiastical City of God modelled on imperial Rome? Maybe you could be
a parish priest? You like Luther, do you? So did Hitler -- and he used some
of Luther's scabrous anti-Jewish screeds to support the Final Solution. You
like Calvin? Were you predestined to like him, or what? You know the story
of Michael Servetus, whom Calvin connived to have roasted to death slowly
for "heresy"? I knew little of Knox before I began to discover the Hebrew
roots of my faith; I know little now. Wesley wrote some great hymns, which I
play and sing. I have no hatred for Wesley.
I simply do not know the "traditional Biblical interpretation" you seem so
fond of. If the Greats you put on your list were so definitive as to
Christian teaching, I wonder, what need for the "contemporary Gentile
Christian theologians"?
It strikes me that every generation spawns its own theologies and
theologians. Not too long ago, lots of these guys were avid defenders of
slavery. More recently, Billy Graham all but blessed Nixon's Vietnam policy.
Then you have the Liberation Theologians; you have the ecumenists; you have
the charismatics; you have the Name It and Claim It bunch; you have the
snake handlers; you have the Jesus was a Capitalist bunch; you have the, No,
He was a Socialist bunch; you have about 20,000 American "Protestant"
denominations clamoring about how they know the Bible better than the bunch
on the next corner....
Who are these unpedigreed Messianic teachers you think I follow? And why
would their pedigrees be less impressive than those of the sorry list I just
mentioned? -- assuming I follow "Messianic teachers" in the first place. If
you're worried about my following the Talmud or Zohar or whatever, you
needn't. I don't. But I would suggest: Jewish sources can give useful
cultural/historic background to accounts of the teachings of a Jewish
Messiah to Jewish followers in a Jewish land with 2000 years of Jewish
history.
You say,
(5) He will claim that his particular group is an example of real
Christianity, and that standard Catholic and Protestant denominations
have lost the true teachings of Christ and the apostles, injecting hosts of
pagan teachings, holidays, and beliefs in their place. In connection
with this, he will adopt an attitude of elitism and pride, considering
Christians and denominations that reject Sabbath and Torah observance to
be in deception--or, at worst, heretics following Satan and the Antichrist.
What's my Particular Group, Vince? Actually, what's YOUR Particular Group?
Do you or your Group teach that everything done, taught, & celebrated by
self-described Christians for the last 2,000 years + is the Right Stuff? No
pagan teachings in there at all? Then you must really belong to the Church
of Anything Goes!
As to Sabbath keeping -- I keep Shabbat for myself and my family as one of
the Ten Commandments which Yeshua -- the Lord of the Sabbath -- didn't
cancel. But I don't tell you, or anybody else, to do this. You are free to
take a Shabbat on Wednesday between 2:00 and 2:30 a.m. if you so choose. Or
no Shabbat at all, Or you couls take a Sunday Shabbat. (Since I actually do
go to church on Sundays, I need not comment further on this foolishness.)
Similarly, if you want to eat pork, bacon and chitlins for every meal,
that's your choice. Perhaps your version of Christiantity requires you to do
this. I'm not your judge.
You say,
(6) He will deny the "New Covenant," and instead claim a "Renewed Covenant,"
which retains Torah observance. He may reject using the term Old Testament,
considering the Law and the teachings of how to observe it therein to be
equally binding on believers with the writings of the New Testament.
Semantics can sure be fun. The covenant I'm bound be (and freed by) is
mediated by the blood of my Savior. By His death, He paid the penalty for
breaking the Law that was due to me. By faith in Him, I have the free gift
of everlasting life. This is a covenant which is both old AND new, As was
said by Jeremiah in Jer. 31:31-34:
31 Behold, the days come, saith Jehovah, that I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah ...
33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after
those days, saith Jehovah: I will put my law in their inward parts, and in
their heart will I write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be my
people:
34 and they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his
brother, saying, Know Jehovah; for they shall all know me, from the least of
them unto the greatest of them, saith Jehovah: for I will forgive their
iniquity, and their sin will I remember no more."
You can call this covenant New, or Renewed, or Reconstituted. I don't care
what you call it; Yahweh leaves this up to us, I think. As long as we know
that this is the covenant in the blood of Messiah, effective for cancelling
our sins [whereas the blood of sacrifices merely blotted them out for a
time], we should be all right. The fact that this covenant is old (and
retrospective) as well as new (and prospective) is seen clearly when Yeshua
says in Matt. 8:11:
11 And I say unto you, that many shall come from the east and the west, and
shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
You say,
(7) He will ultimately deny the reliability of the New Testament itself...
I don't.
You say.
(8) He will claim that the New Testament was originally written in Hebrew,
and then go on to seek someone's reconstructed Hebrew-translation New
Testament..
I don't have the scholarly credentials to know what language the NT was
originally written in. Do you? I recall seeing a reference in Eusebius about
the gospel of Matthew being written first in Hebrew. Youi will notice, I've
quoted generally in this post from the ASV. I also use the KJV, NKJV, NASB,
NIV and occasionally Young's Literal Translation. I don't read Koine Greek,
and my Hebrew is not fluent. Your accusation is just sort-of weird on this
point. I don't go "seeking for" any particular Bible translation. They all
have their plusses and minuses, I suppose.
You say,
(9) If unable to refute a criticism of his beliefs by those using New
Testament Scripture, he may reject the writings of Paul altogether, and
label him a false prophet. (This has happened with Snow here!)
Well, I ain't snow, and I haven't rejected Paul. (Although I have recently
ordered a book by del Tondo that debates the authenticity of the Pauline
letters. I hear the author is a Trinitarian and otherwise what I suppose you
would call orthodox.) My jury hasn't even been empanelled, let alone being
out, on this issue. I read the Da Vinci Code a few years ago, and it was
full of crap. It didn't slow my Christian walk. I don't think the Del Tondo
book, or my participation in this ng, will have this effect, either.
You say,
(10) He may come to believe that only those who keep the Jewish Law, while
acknowledging Christ as Messiah, will enter into eternal life, and
everyone else will be damned.
Or he may not. I haven't. I'm not in the damnation business. You seem to be.
There's a lot of the Law that's simply un-keepable after the destruction of
the Temple. There's lots of stuff that can't be followed outside Israel. The
fraction of the Law that I find useful in my walk of faith -- Shabbats,
festivals, clean eating &c. -- is nothing that ANYBODY, me included, would
make into a Shibboleth for who gets into the Kingdom, who's out. It simply
works well within our family and friends for keeping ourselves in love with
YHWH and loving our neighbours as ourselves -- which was the whole point, I
thought.
Finally, you say,
(11) He will reach the point where he has "fallen from grace" and Christ
'profits him nothing' when he becomes consciously secure and certain of
his salvation because he acknowledges Yeshua as Messiah--and is "keeping the
Commandments of God".
Well, I do confess with my mouth that Yeshua is Lord, and I do believe in my
heart that God raised him from the dead. Romans 10:9 says that I will be
saved. On the other hand, I don't celebrate the average "Christ-Mass"
festivities, and I don't subscribe to the teachings of Augustibe, Calvin or
Knox. You seem to have quite a few things on your "get saved" check-list. I
have very few.
This has been a longer post than I intended. I sense that you are sincere at
some level, and that you really believe that your check-list of orthodoxies
is God-ordained. You talk of the traditional Christmas season, but you
mutter darkly about me castrating myself. Did Yeshua give you this??
In conclusion, the enemy you are fighting is not me. I am quite willing to
dialogue with you -- I don't usually have the time to go on at this
length -- but I think your main challenge is to get out of the din of
orthodoxies, creeds, and mutual hostility, and just listen to the words of
Yeshua. If He speaks with a Hebrew accent, don't be entirely surpised.
I bless you even as I have blessed Snow, confident that YHWH can and will
make all things including my blessing, work together for His glory. Shalom!
John/Jochanan.
go by are what the Master right, you don't like the name "Yeshua". Too
Jewish perhaps? So, would you receive this teaching better if it was said by
Jee-zus? Is this an article of faith with you? You might think through this
one from
(You prob'ly don't like "Jah" either, though - 'cept when you sing
"Hallel-JAH".)
"vince garcia" <vggar...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:4B26E0...@ix.netcom.com...
Snow
Good post John. This is the type of thing I wish you would post on
messianic.Yehoshua. It's a keeper and worth going over. Thanks for
sharing. I can see that you have your own mind and use it very well..
it's good to see that we don't agree on everything... should make for
some spirited discussion in the future my brother.
Be blessed and know you are appreciated.
vince garcia
Really, snow? He appeals to PAUL to validate his theology. You say paul
is a false prophet.
Are you two really simpatico??? Don't you two believe totally different
things?
Or are you two equally heretics?
vince garcia
>
> Were you just having a bad day, or do you always rant like this??
Only when I see judaising messianics perverting the Christian faith and
trying to deceive people into moving back into the bondage and darkness
of the Law.
> You might want to chew on this from Yeshua, your Messiah:
>
> Matt. 5:17-19 (ASV):
>
> 17 Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to
> destroy, but to fulfil.
Right--and HE DID fulfill it all, making it moot.
> 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or
> one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be
> accomplished.
FULFILLED. And IT HAS BEEN fulfilled! And IT HAS BEEN accomplished!
>
> 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and
> shall teach men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven: but
> whosoever shall do and teach them, he shall be called great in the kingdom
> of heaven.
When christ was 'come under the Law,' coming as a jewish messiah to
fulfill it, this was 100% true. But now that the covenant of the law HAS
BEEN FULFILLED AND PASSED AWAY because the jews to whom He came put Him
on a cross to forever abrogate that covenant, to cleave to the law now
is to cleave to the "ministration of death" from a covenant that never
perfected anyone, and which has passed away
Note these words: the Law you put your hope in...the Law you say is such
a delight because the old testament--under THAT dichotomous covenant to
the New says is a delight--is the MINISTRATION OF DEATH.
>
> Or this, from Psalm 19:7 (ASV):
>
> "The law of Jehovah is perfect, restoring the soul: The testimony of Jehovah
> is sure, making wise the simple." Does God change? Not if you believe
> Malachi 3:6. Does Jesus change? Not if you believe Heb. 13:8. Jesus came to
> free us from the law of sin and death -- NOT from the Law of the LORD.
>
> You may want to think about this, from Paul in Romans 7 (ASV):
>
> 7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Howbeit, I had not
> known sin, except through the law ...
>
> 12 So that the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and righteous, and
> good...
>
> 14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin."
>
> Or hear what Paul said in his legal defence before Festus in Acts 25:8:
>
> "Paul said in his defense, Neither against the law of the Jews, nor against
> the temple, nor against Caesar, have I sinned at all" Remember, Paul was
> under oath in a life or death case AND HIGH JEWISH OFFICIALS WERE IN THE
> COURTROOM. Odd that (1) No-one accused Paul of Torah breaking;
(2) Paul did
> not bad-mouth the Torah at all!
No-he just said it was the MINISTRATION OF DEATH and MINISTRATION OF
CONDEMNATION, and DONE AWAY WITH
7 But if the MINISTRATION OF DEATH, written and engraven in stones [the
10 commandments and covenant of the Law], was glorious, so that the
children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the
glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the MINISTRATION OF CONDEMNATION be glory, much more doth the
ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect,
by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that WHICH IS DONE AWAY was glorious, much more that which
remaineth is glorious.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now
that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
15 Because the law worketh wrath: for WHERE NO LAW IS, there is no
transgression.
I know...you hate that verse. Messianics always hate that verse, because
only where there is no law one MUST keep can one not make himself a
transgressor because of his inability to actually keep that law--be it
10 or 613--to the standard of a perfect God.
And he actually said about people trying to deceive the brethren into
mixing torah observance and faith that they should be CAST OUT of the
assembly
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai [representing the law he says is done
away] in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem
which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth
and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more
children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was
born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her
son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the
freewoman.
...and that such a person should BE ACCURSED for teaching the gospel
that mixes torah observance and faith.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other
gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
And by the way--he rebukes the galatians in chapter 4 for keeping ALL
FOUR FORMS of the jewish sabbath! And were we to put the way you keep
the sabbath up against the actual sabbath commands, you would be a
candidate for stoning.
Every messianic I know says we must keep the sabbath. NOT ONE keeps it
as biblically mandated; every one waters it down to the level of a 7th
day adventist or reform jew.
Well...the Bible says to stone sabbath violators like that. So if you
really believe in honoring and keeping the comamndments God gave through
Moses, you stand condemned, in the state of a transgressor.
That's why: WHERE NO LAW IS, there is no transgression.
Partial obedience is DISobedience. Sincerity is irrelevant.
So those are the answers to the false religion you are a part of. But
sadly, just like every cultist, you will refuse correction and remain in
the darkness of deception, because dceception wouldn't be deception if
you weren't deceived.
But I do have to ask you again--do you really wish to bless Snow, an
even bigger heretic who thinks paul and jesus taught different
religions, and who rejects the writings of paul?
Apparently you repudiate the writings of John who said don't even wish
Godspeed to such a person.
But...there is one thing you can say about his sincerity--he realizes
that paul repudiated torah observance as a part of justification and the
'new' covenant, so he rejects paul and the doctrines he taught
Snow
> > > (You prob'ly don't like "Jah" either, though - 'cept when you sing
> > > "Hallel-JAH".)
>
> > Good post John. This is the type of thing I wish you would post on
> > messianic.Yehoshua. It's a keeper and worth going over.
>
> Really, snow? He appeals to PAUL to validate his theology. You say paul
> is a false prophet.
Worse still Vince, I say Paul is none other then Lucifer of Isaiah 14,
the messenger of the gentiles.
> Are you two really simpatico??? Don't you two believe totally different
> things?
No, we both believe YAHWEH is the almighty and Yehoshua was his Son.
It's not the journey that matters Vince as long as he heading to the
right destination. People have their own minds and must be allowed to
determine for themselves what is right. Did you notice that I didn't
bother to refute your claims about me? That is because I don't care
what you believe Vince, it's not my job to refute others, that is what
you do, I shake the dust off and speak the Good News as my master
instructed me.
Isa 42:16 “And I shall lead the blind by a way they have not known –
in paths they have not known I lead them. I make darkness light before
them, and crooked places straight. These matters I shall do for them,
and I shall not forsake them.
You see, Vince.. I TRUST the Good News and I trust that YAHWEH has
purposed all things and while you do not understand my way, I am fine
with that because I understand that you will come to truth when you
desire, if you desire and it's not on me to bring you to this truth.
Mat 15:14 “Leave them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And
if the blind leads the blind, both shall fall into a ditch.”
I'm instructed to leave you alone, treat you with RESPECT and to allow
you to go on your way and do the things you deem right.
1Pe 2:17 Respect all, love the brotherhood, fear Elohim, respect the
sovereign.
Vince, I practice what I preach, I don't just attack you because you
have a different understanding and the same goes for my brother John.
The fact that you feel you must attack my belief Vince is simply your
own lack of faith in the Good News, not mine.
Mat 10:13 “And if the house is worthy, let your peace come upon it.
But if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you.
> Or are you two equally heretics?
I am a happy "heretic" of what you believe Vince. I don't see a need
to attack you because I understand certain truths that you may not
like.
Isa 55:7 Let the wrong forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his
thoughts. Let him return to Yahweh, who has compassion on him, and to
our Elohim, for He pardons much. 8 “For My thoughts are not your
thoughts, neither are your ways My ways,” declares Yahweh. 9 “For as
the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your
ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts.
Deu 17:12 “And the man who acts arrogantly, so as not to listen to the
priest who stands to serve there before Yahweh your Elohim, or to the
judge, that man shall die. So you shall purge the evil from IsraEL.
We have ONE JUDGE and ONE CREATOR who will judge all, don’t try to
think it’s you. Be Humble.
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
Respond directly:
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/messianic_Yehoshua/
The heart of another is a dark forest, always, no matter how close it
has been to one's own.
Willa Cather
An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation,
nor does truth become error because nobody sees it.
Mohandas Gandhi
http://www.isr-messianic.org/ <- download the scriptures free
http://messianicyehoshua.googlegroups.com/web/RNKJV.zip <--free
download of the Restored Names King James Version
Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other
time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are the change that
we seek.
Barack Obama
vince garcia
>
> On Dec 16, 12:09 am, vince garcia <vggarci...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> > > > (You prob'ly don't like "Jah" either, though - 'cept when you sing
> > > > "Hallel-JAH".)
> >
> > > Good post John. This is the type of thing I wish you would post on
> > > messianic.Yehoshua. It's a keeper and worth going over.
> >
> > Really, snow? He appeals to PAUL to validate his theology. You say paul
> > is a false prophet.
>
> Worse still Vince, I say Paul is none other then Lucifer of Isaiah 14,
> the messenger of the gentiles.
>
And this is what I like about you--your honesty and consistency. Unlike
other messianics I know who pervert paul's tecachings into a message
touting torah observance, you're honest enough--and smart enough--to
acknowledge paul repudiated the need for keeping the law; and, in fact,
warned you were in danger if you even adopted the Law into your
christian walk.
This is the sort of honesty we need, so we can see a clear dichotomy
between what the whole of the NT teaches, vs accepting only the gospels
and their emphasis on the law (since that's the covenant Jesus came
under) as 'real' Christianity.
Thank you!
> > Are you two really simpatico??? Don't you two believe totally different
> > things?
>
> No, we both believe YAHWEH is the almighty and Yehoshua was his Son.
That's good! The demons believe that too. So do the Mormons, JWs, WWCOG,
and so on.
But all those groups, despite believing that Jesus is lord, are in a
state of damnation because the "Jesus"/"yeshua"/or whatever they believe
in is a myth. Like you, and like John, they repudiate the REAL Jesus in
order to place faith in a being THEY define as NOT God in the flesh, but
some sort of lesser, created being who nevertheless is "lord". And many
times they'll go straight to the same verses you might go to to validate
that doctrine at the expense of others.
In other words, they'll use scripture to refute scripture.
But in compromising on this key essential of the faith, they are
following a mythical savior of their own deceived creation.
Have you ever noticed that with every--or virtually every--Christian
cult, the first thing it will target is the deity of Christ?
Satan starts right there, because once he has someone placing their
trust in a Christ who IS NOT God, they are now following a false
messiah.
So yes, I accuse you of being a total heretic, and you admit that you
are, so far as orthodox Christianity goes.
But that aside, I actually do think you're a decent guy
>
> We have ONE JUDGE and ONE CREATOR who will judge all, don�t try to
> think it�s you. Be Humble.
>
>
Unfortunately, Christians are called to stand against false teaching and
false teachers, not keep silent and let God judge them. So i HAVE to
judge what you say, or John says, and warn you two that you are flirting
with damnation because your religious views are not those taught by the
new testament.
Remember--according to the paul you repudiate, it takes VERY LITTLE to
disqualify you from salvation. Even the simple act of physical
circumcision, called an "everlasting covenant" in Gen. 17--note that
again: "everlasting covenant"--places you in a position where Christ
"profits you NOTHING"
That's all it takes to be damned!
How much more, then, will you walk into damnation by adding sabbath and
torah observance to Christianity, when no more than an insignificant
physical operation done in heedence of what God Himself calls an
"everlasting covenant" will damn you, for polluting the true gospel of
faith with Laws God actually gave to be kept?*
* But under a wholly different coveanant than the one we are under
Law and Faith are not two sides of the same coin--they are mutually
exclusive, and to mix them is to drink pure water laced with cyanide.
That is the heresy of mesianic judaism
Snow
> That is the heresy of mesianic judaism
You know.. I am perfectly fine even still with what you believe
Vince. Thanks for sharing.. Take care and be blessed my friend.
BTW.. I do not practice "messianic Judaism".. I am Messianic.
John Gardner
less than the consequences of our sin and death. The Law was (and is) the
perfect expression of YHWH's instruction. It made us aware of sin and its
consequence, death. The great grace of Our Messiah now frees us of inherited
sin through His ransom and our faith in Him. Sin remains sin and will always
remain sin, as long as YHWH remains YHWH. But we have a Redeemer. It's just
that simple. Hallelu-JAH.
If Torah was destroyed (and Yeshua says he came NOT to destroy it!), "sin"
would be destroyed.too -- and the Millenium would be here. Is it?
If you say that the Law itself has been done away with, you are apparently a
teacher and worker of Lawlessness by your own admission. How does your
(apparent) position agree with the apostles in the years after Yeshua's
crucifixion?
Well, Paul says this in Acts 24:14 (NASB):
"14"But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a
sect I do serve the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in
accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets".
And in Acts 19:21 (NKJV):
" [Paul] took leave of them, saying, "I must by all means keep this coming
feast in Jerusalem; but I will return again to you, God willing."
In Romans 3:31, Paul says it all:
"Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary,
we establish the law.".
And don't forget 2 Tim. 3:16 (NKJV):
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for
doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"
I suppose you agree, Vince, that the "all scripture" that Paul referred to
included the Torah and Prophets. There WAS no NT Scripture in the first
couple of centuries! So -- if as you say, "the Law has been fulfilled AND
PASSED AWAY", why did Paul approve of it as "doctrine"; "instruction in
righteousness", etc.?? (Actually, the word "Torah" is well translated as
"instruction").
The "man of lawlessness " is the "man of Torah-lessness", Period. Full stop.
Is that what you aspire to be, Vince?
You seem to want to link me to Guardian Snow. I suppose that's because I'm
gentle with him, as I am with you. I don't think either Snow or you are bad
people or "heretics" - much as my stomach turns at some of Snow's
scurrilities to Linda Lee (and vice versa) and your nastinesses re: knives,
castration, etc. You both need to bridle your tongues big-time, IMHO. But
the Spirit will prompt you both in that regard. Neither of you need me to
tell you this..
I will say this: From all the historical material I've read about the early
"Church" councils, including the Nicean Shin-dig, I don't see God's Spirit
in charge. The NT canon was finalized, and the Trinity doctrine and Sunday
observances were commanded, by a divisive, squabbling, power-hungry bunch of
men who wanted above all to wield power in a Roman-sponsored state church.
The Athanasian bishops won by a couple votes at Nicea, after expelling on a
pretext several Arian bishops. A few years later, the Arians kicked the
Athanasians out. The "Church" settled and schismed into the doctrinal and
pragmatic swamp(s) that we now call the Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox
Churches. For better or ill, these were the guys that tell you what should
be in the NT, and what gets left out. The Protestants, protesting mightily
against the Church and one another, basically took what the Church councils
dished out and proclaimed it to be the Real Deal. How the Nicean crooks
would have chuckled.
Didja ever thin: "Maybe they made a mistake! Maybe several!" In particular,
maybe Paul is not what he presented to be! I will look at viewpoints from
both sides.
I agree with Paul (if he wrote 2 Timothy) that all scripture, including
genuine NT scripture, is inspired. But nowhere does Paul, or Yahweh, or
Yeshua, tell us exactly WHAT should be included in "NT Scripture". So I
quote Paul, and believe on the best of the information I now have that he
was the chosen apostle to the Gentiles -- but my confession of basic faith
does NOT have an Article that says "I accept as NT Scripture without
question everything that a particular Church council said that Paul wrote".
I hope that clears up a few things. Shalom!
Jochanan/John.
"vince garcia" <vggar...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:4B278D...@ix.netcom.com...
John Gardner
response.
You say: "And were we to put the way you keep
the sabbath up against the actual sabbath commands, you would be a candidate
for stoning. Every messianic I know says we must keep the sabbath. NOT ONE
keeps it as biblically mandated; every one waters it down to the level of a
7th day adventist or reform jew."
How do I keep Sabbath, Vince?
How does my Sabbath get to the level of one kept by a 7th day adventist or a
reform jew?
How do these folks keep Sabbath?
Since you make so friendly with my life, Vince, I'll relax in yours for a
bit. May I? Thanks. Shalom. You're married, right? When was the last time
you gave your wife a really PERFECT anniversary? Gave her (him?) a new
remembrance ring? Served her/him a gourmet breakfast in bed? Gave her/him a
card with your own love poem and maybe the key to a new car? Sang to her or
him a new song about the wonderful year you just shared, with your kids
accompanying on musical instruments? Did all the chores all day? Took your
wife/hubby out for dancing and cocktails? Checked into a nice hotel for the
evening with a big Happy Anniversary! sign on the door?
You say you don't always do all this ... what, are you defective? Don't you
love your wife/hubby AT ALL?
No, we don't do a perfect Shabbat every time, or even any time. Sometimes
"watered down" is the best there is. At least we make an effort to rest
before the Lord, and praise him as a family. For at least one day in seven.
Since you think you already know what we do on Friday night around here, you
can skip this paragraph ... Anyway: We sing special songs (I've written 70
of 'em). We say special prayers of thankfulness. We bless each other and our
two teenaged children. We bless Yeshua, our Messiah. We bless the bread I
make (challah bread) and the grape juice. We wear our nice clothes. We don't
talk about the bad day that one or more of us have surely had. The candles
burn softly. We have a special linen tablecloth, with clusters of grapes and
"I am the Vine" embroidered in Hebrew. Simetimes, friends join us. It's very
intimate, very low key.
I would never command anyone to come to my seder table, or condemn anyone
for not coming to a seder of their own. Nor do I judge the anniversaries
kept by my friends. If they have good ones, I'm happy for them. If they
don't, or can't, I hope they can do better next year.
I have never said that Sabbath observance is a requirement for salvation! We
are saved by faith. And we are free in Yeshua to take one day in seven - AT
LEAST one! - to rehearse for the Kingdom, when we'll have all the time in
the world and Yeshua will drink the fruit of the vine anew with us: Mark
14:25.
If you think I should be stoned ere then for defective Shabbat keeping,
you'd better get a rock in hand - remembering always the Master's words in
John 8:7.
John/Jochanan.
"John Gardner" <gardn...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:HuQVm.95432$Wf2....@newsfe23.iad...
Rod
It seems to me that the answer to your concerns lies within what
the Apostles taught to those they ministered to. There are several
arguments on this topic; one side says the commandments are needed,
the other says they are done away with. The first step to solving
this is to realize that Paul is NOT an apostle. The second step is
to seek out the true apostles teachings. What Christ taught them
concerning the Gentiles will be reflected in those teachings.
Snow
> vince garcia wrote:
> > * Paul is referring to the very "yoke" that the Judaiser of then, and
> > the heretic of today, seek to place upon the neck of Gentile believers:
> > observance of the Torah (see verse 3, Mathew 11: 28-30, and Acts
> > 15:7-10).
>
> It seems to me that the answer to your concerns lies within what
> the Apostles taught to those they ministered to. There are several
> arguments on this topic; one side says the commandments are needed,
> the other says they are done away with. The first step to solving
> this is to realize that Paul is NOT an apostle. The second step is
> to seek out the true apostles teachings. What Christ taught them
> concerning the Gentiles will be reflected in those teachings.
Rod, they don't want the truth, they want fantasy realms with angels
and unicorns.
vince garcia
John--I appreciate the length of this post and the time you took to
compose it.
I gave to say that when I look at your lines of thinking, as illustrated
below, I see the same sort of deception and world view of the cults. You
weave a complicated and in-depth explanation of what you think the
scriptures say and mean, but all of it winds up being deception and
false teaching.
>
> The MINISTRATION OF DEATH which Paul refers to, Vince, was nothing more nor
> less than the consequences of our sin and death.
No, sir. It was the covenant of sinai, represented by the 10
comamndemnts (as paul notes in the passages in Galatians I posted) WHICH
HAVE PASSED AWAY.
Let's look at the words again:
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones
The ministration of death was physicaly written on stone. This is not an
allusion to simply mankind's sinfulness brought about through the law.
It is THE HOLY LAW OF GOD ITSELF that...
1. IS THE STRENGTH OF SIN
2. MINISTERS DEATH
3. MINISTERS CONDEMNATION
By refusing to acknowledge this simple fact, and weaving a theological
construct to give it a different meaning than what is painfully obvious,
you show yourself unable to even get to first base with salvation and
the Christian faith.
That's right--you're not even to first base in Christ, despite being
able to spout logos like any smart jehovah's witness can.
Your belief system is based on a desire to hold onto the law and reject
the true path of salvation because YOU want to be the final determining
factor in whether or not you enter into eternal life.
That's one deception that satan uses with people and the Law--and it is
the same deception the judaisers were under.
I understand if that statement offends you, because you really think you
know Christ and serve God, and you're naturally insulted that an
obnoxious guy like me would apparently pass judgment on your salvation.
But the words and thoughts of your theology reveal you DO NOT have a
true understanding of salvation, and thus it is very questionable that
you can be saved, thinking the things that you express here.
But you think you're saved.
And so do the Mormons. So do the JWs. So do the Branch Davidians and
Armstrongites.
EVERY deceived Christian cultist following a false Christ, and rejecting
the true gospel in favor of a lie, is fully convinced he understands the
scripture, that his beliefs are true, that he is a true part of the body
of Christ, and so on. But the truth is, they're sincere people
sincerely following a false gospel EVEN THOUGH THEY CAN QUOTE ALL SORTS
OF SCRIPTURE TO JUSTIFY THEIR FALSE BELIEFS!
The Law was (and is) the
> perfect expression of YHWH's instruction. It made us aware of sin and its
> consequence, death. The great grace of Our Messiah now frees us of inherited
> sin through His ransom and our faith in Him. Sin remains sin and will always
> remain sin, as long as YHWH remains YHWH. But we have a Redeemer. It's just
> that simple. Hallelu-JAH.
That sounds nice, but what's really simplest is:
WHERE NO LAW IS, THERE IS NO TRANSGRESSION.
>
> If Torah was destroyed (and Yeshua says he came NOT to destroy it!), "sin"
> would be destroyed.too -- and the Millenium would be here. Is it?
>
> If you say that the Law itself has been done away with, you are apparently a
> teacher and worker of Lawlessness by your own admission. How does your
> (apparent) position agree with the apostles in the years after Yeshua's
> crucifixion?
>
> Well, Paul says this in Acts 24:14 (NASB):
>
> "14"But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a
> sect I do serve the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in
> accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets".
>
> And in Acts 19:21 (NKJV):
Real quick, the answer is in 1 cor 7:
18 Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become
uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? Let him not be
circumcised.
This is one of the most important verses in the New Testament dealing
with the false doctrines of Messianics. Paul here commands that Jews and
Gentiles remain in their cultural milieu. This is an absolute denial of
the false doctrine that God requires Gentile believers to follow Mosaic
Law once they accept Christ. Likewise, Paul encourages Jews to remain
within their own cultural background, and remain faithful to keeping the
Torah. Thus, God equally accepts both Torah-observant Jews and
non-observant Gentiles, and neither side is required to adopt or reject
Mosaic practices in order to obtain or retain salvation.
You, being unable to understand scripture properly, simply think Paul
taught everyone needs to keep moses' law.
Wrong. That's a doctrine of devils.
>
> " [Paul] took leave of them, saying, "I must by all means keep this coming
> feast in Jerusalem; but I will return again to you, God willing."
>
> In Romans 3:31, Paul says it all:
>
> "Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary,
> we establish the law.".
>
> And don't forget 2 Tim. 3:16 (NKJV):
>
> 16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for
> doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"
>
> I suppose you agree, Vince, that the "all scripture" that Paul referred to
> included the Torah and Prophets. There WAS no NT Scripture in the first
> couple of centuries! So -- if as you say, "the Law has been fulfilled AND
> PASSED AWAY", why did Paul approve of it as "doctrine"; "instruction in
> righteousness", etc.?? (Actually, the word "Torah" is well translated as
> "instruction").
OK, here is some scripture for you to follow from psalm 137:
9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the
stones.
Are you ready to go bash the brains out of the children of the
unrighteous?
ALL scripture is given for edification, right? So it would be edifying
for you to do that, right?
Again--you don't understand how to use scripture TO be edified. You are
bound in the deception of the judaisers
And is this scripture edifying?:
9 Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor
uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger
that is among the children of Israel.
Must i be physically circumcised to worship God in His holy temple?
Is that verse edifying to me as written?
Should I also be edified by the everlasting covenant of physical
circumcision between God and Abraham, and go out and get circumcised?
>
> The "man of lawlessness " is the "man of Torah-lessness", Period. Full stop.
> Is that what you aspire to be, Vince?
I aspire to help you see you are trapped in satanic deception, but that
is impossible to do because cultists almost never repent.
And your argument is the very one satan spits out of his minions whan
they are confronted with the true gospel of slavtion thru faith ALONE
>
> You seem to want to link me to Guardian Snow. I suppose that's because I'm
> gentle with him, as I am with you. I don't think either Snow or you are bad
> people or "heretics" - much as my stomach turns at some of Snow's
> scurrilities to Linda Lee (and vice versa) and your nastinesses re: knives,
> castration, etc.
i got the admonishment from paul's comments to the torah-pushers
And i would like to apologize for my near-unrestrained fury i directed
toward you out of seemingly nowhere yesterday.
I used to be a part of the false gospel of messianic judaism, but after
I had to go through the NT on an in-depth verse by verse basis, I came
to understand what a satanic lie that theology is, and I feel the same
rage toward it that some former catholics might feel toward the catholic
church they would say deceived and kept them in darkness over the years.
When I hear messianic doctrine such as you espouse, I simply explode in
rage over the lie I know it is, based not on my opinion, but on
scripture
Linda Lee
> On Dec 16, 12:09 am, vince garcia <vggarci...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> > > > (You prob'ly don't like "Jah" either, though - 'cept when you sing
> > > > "Hallel-JAH".)
>
> > > Good post John. This is the type of thing I wish you would post on
> > > messianic.Yehoshua. It's a keeper and worth going over.
>
> > Really, snow? He appeals to PAUL to validate his theology. You say paul
> > is a false prophet.
>
> Worse still Vince, I say Paul is none other then Lucifer of Isaiah 14,
> the messenger of the gentiles.
More evidence of your ignorance. Paul does not fit the prophecy in
Isaiah Chapter 14.
>
> > Are you two really simpatico??? Don't you two believe totally different
> > things?
>
> No, we both believe YAHWEH is the almighty and Yehoshua was his Son.
Liar. That is NOT what you said within the last six weeks or so when
you were claiming the Messiah was "only a prophet".
Snowjob says: "Christians refuse to acknowledge that Messiah was only
a prophet" - 10/30/09 - http://groups.google.com/group/alt.messianic/msg/f15309b6dab272c6
WHY do you always change your story about what you believe? Oh,
that's right, because you're a lying hypocrite whose alleged 'beliefs'
change from moment to moment depending upon the beliefs of whomever
you're trying to impress at the moment.
>
> Isa 42:16 “And I shall lead the blind by a way they have not known –
> in paths they have not known I lead them. I make darkness light before
> them, and crooked places straight. These matters I shall do for them,
> and I shall not forsake them.
>
> You see, Vince.. I TRUST the Good News
Liar. You DENY the Good News/Gospel.
John 3:18 says, "He that believeth on him [the Messiah] is not
condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he
hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
It was prophesied that the Gentiles would worship the Messiah and
through belief in him find rest for their souls. Concerning Yahashua`
the Messiah (the son of David, the son of Jesse), Isa. 11:10 says,
“And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for
an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest
shall be glorious”.
The word here translated 'seek' - Heb. 1875 - “properly to tread or
frequent; usually to follow (for pursuit or search); by implication to
seek or ask; specifically to worship”.
> Mat 15:14 “Leave them alone.
> They are blind leaders of the blind. And
> if the blind leads the blind, both shall fall into a ditch.”
As has been pointed out to you many times, this does not mean not to
bother you; that is just your usual misinterpretation of the
Scriptures. It means DO NOT FOLLOW blind leaders; it doesn't mean your
errors should be left to stand without being corrected.
Anyone that believes what you say without checking out _everything_
you say is not really seeking and deserves to be misled, as they and
you are blind leaders of the blind.
Your wild claims about the Trojan War and Paul's buddy Pyrrhus within
the last couple of days highlights your status as a blind leader of
the blind and that you as a teacher of anything (and especially of the
Scriptures) is a JOKE:
See http://groups.google.com/group/alt.bible/msg/46aa84f9b0e9334a
and http://groups.google.com/group/alt.bible/msg/d300b22a915d0ee7
Linda Lee
> Sorry, Vince, I missed one of your nasties that probably deserves a
> response.
You're awfully sarcastic and condemningly judgmental to keep accusing
others of being nasty, aren't you, hypocrite?
Snow
> Your wild claims about the Trojan War and Paul's buddy Pyrrhus within
> the last couple of days highlights your status as a blind leader of
> the blind and that you as a teacher of anything (and especially of the
> Scriptures) is a JOKE:
Hi stalker... You're just pissed you didn't think of it. I'd be happy
to agree to never speak to or about you ever again if you would agree
to do the same.
Rod
Let them wander about blind then.
Snow
1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the GOD and Father OF our Lord JESUS Christ
Christians must not believe Apostle Peter....
Linda Lee
You're writing a book on Messianics now, Vince? That's great that
you're writing on the Scriptures.
But you should be careful about being so adamant about everyone's
motives, claiming you can lump together the motives of everyone into
one bunch. When you use "all" and "always", it if most often in error,
and many will notice it is wrong.
I don't call myself a Messianic. I call myself a Christian because
that is a follower of Christ, and the Messiah did not say anywhere
that anyone other than himself must be accepted to obtain eternal
life.
I DO use the Hebrew name of the Messiah in order to be more accurate
and to show respect, but I have had prayers answered in an immediate
miraculous way using the name "Jesus" years ago when I knew no other
name for Christ. (I also had a miracle occur after praying to
Yahashua`. Although I have not had occasion to pray for deliverance in
the Aramaic/Hebrew name of Yeshua`, I would think this name would also
gain a response.) This leads me to believe the Messiah knows what
names he is called in different languages and does respond to those
names. But I also believe it is disrespectful not to use his real name
when that name becomes known to us.
Almost all Messianic groups accept Paul as a valid apostle just like
almost all Christian groups do.
I reject Paul mainly because I don't believe he was really appointed
as an apostle for three main reasons (although there are more):
1. Paul was contradictory on the subject of the law (as he was on most
subjects), claiming that he acted as if he were under the law to the
Jews and not under the law to the Gentiles, his motive seemingly being
that he wanted to be "all things to all men":
1Co 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the
Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might
gain them that are under the law;
1Co 9:21 To them that are without law [the Gentiles], as without law,
(being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I
might gain them that are without law.
1Co 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I
am __made all things to all men,__ that I might by all means save
some.
Now Paul seems to think that his motivation makes what he did good
(acting as if he were under the law to potential Jewish believers, and
not under the law to potential Gentile believers); me, I think the
truth can't be compromised and that the true apostles of the Messiah
did not have to use such methods to gain converts to belief in the
Messiah.
2. Peter in II Pet. 3:15-17 criticized Paul's epistles saying they
were all "hard to be understood" and led many to "destruction" because
the epistles caused many "unlearned" to think they could be lawless
("wicked").
2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation;
even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given
unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these
things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they
that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other
Scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before,
beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked
[defined "lawless"], fall from your own steadfastness.
The apostles of the Messiah led many "unlearned" to salvation because
they were not "hard to be understood" as they were not contradictory
or unnecessarily wordy and were the true teachings according to the
words of the Messiah.
3. When the Messiah sent forth the true apostles to teach, he told
them to be "harmless as doves", and according to Paul's own words, he
was not behaving in that manner:
Matt. 10:16 the Messiah says, "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in
the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as
doves."
1 Cor. 4:21 Paul says, "What will ye? shall I come unto you with a
rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?"
2 Cor. 13:2-3 Paul says, "I told you before, and foretell you, as if I
were present, the second time; and being absent now I write to them
which heretofore have sinned, and to all other, that, if I come again,
I will not spare: Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me".
At the risk of being called a heretic, I must point out a few more
things.
John's vision in the book of Revelation makes it sound very much like
at least the Ten Commandments must be followed along with belief in
the Messiah as God incarnate as the only Saviour in order to obtain
salvation (this agrees with the Messiah's words in Matt. 19:16-21
also):
Rev. 14:12-13 says, “Here is the patience of the saints: here are they
that __keep the COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, AND THE FAITH OF JESUS.__ And I
heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead
which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that
they may rest from their labors; and their works do follow them”.
Paul says in Rom. 8:1-6 that those who walk in the Spirit, rather than
'walking in the flesh' (our 'walk' in life being our behavior),
fulfill the righteousness of the law (Commandments):
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in
Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made
me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through
the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh,
and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
___Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in
us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.___
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the
flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually
minded is life and peace.
P.S. I wouldn't worry too much about anyone that appears is being
misled by Snowjob/"Snow" whose beliefs change from moment to moment
depending upon the beliefs of whomever he's trying to impress at the
moment. (I notice here that Snowjob has told you he and this other
poster, who appears to act a lot like him, hypocritically accusatory
and condemning, both believe Yehoshua is the Son of God, where he was
denying this six weeks ago, claiming he was "only a prophet" - see
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.messianic/msg/f15309b6dab272c6 ).
Anyone that believes what Snowjob (or anyone else) says without
checking out _everything_ he says against the Scriptures is NOT really
seeking and deserves to be misled by "blind leaders of the blind",
such as he.
Linda Lee
> On Dec 16, 8:56 am, Rod <spa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Snow wrote:
> > > On Dec 16, 6:56 am, Rod <spa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >> vince garcia wrote:
>
> > >>> * Paul is referring to the very "yoke" that the Judaiser of then, and
> > >>> the heretic of today, seek to place upon the neck of Gentile believers:
> > >>> observance of the Torah (see verse 3, Mathew 11: 28-30, and Acts
> > >>> 15:7-10).
> > >> It seems to me that the answer to your concerns lies within what
> > >> the Apostles taught to those they ministered to. There are several
> > >> arguments on this topic; one side says the commandments are needed,
> > >> the other says they are done away with. The first step to solving
> > >> this is to realize that Paul is NOT an apostle. The second step is
> > >> to seek out the true apostles teachings. What Christ taught them
> > >> concerning the Gentiles will be reflected in those teachings.
>
Oh is Rod doing his pretend-believer thing again so soon? (You two are
just alike, a couple of Christian-hating antichrist frauds.)
Here Rod admits his professing belief in God has been only a “pretend
interest”:
I wrote:
> The posters in ACC were right; you're simply a psychopath,
> a God-hater who likes to pretend periodically he's considering
> become either a Christian or a follower of YHWH.
Rod admits, “Even my pretend interest has faded after seeing more of
your "Bible".”- 11/25/09 - from http://groups.google.com/group/alt.bible.prophecy/msg/e8048a119483aec9
> > > Rod, they don't want the truth, they want fantasy realms with angels
Outside of your alliance with your fellow profane, God-hating, wife-
beating, male chauvinist pig buddy, here you are demonstrating how
evil you are with your rejection of angels (and hell) and your
acceptance of demons.
Of course you wouldn't believe in Hell because: "Evil men understand
not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all
things" (Prov. 28:5).
> > > and unicorns.
>
> > Let them wander about blind then.
>
> 1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the GOD and Father OF our Lord JESUS Christ
>
> Christians must not believe Apostle Peter....
Rev. 14:12-13 says, “Here is the patience of the saints: here are they
that __keep the COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, AND the FAITH OF JESUS.__ And I
Linda Lee
> On Dec 16, 8:02 am, Linda Lee <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
>
> > Your wild claims about the Trojan War and Paul's buddy Pyrrhus within
> > the last couple of days highlights your status as a blind leader of
> > the blind and that you as a teacher of anything (and especially of the
> > Scriptures) is a JOKE:
>
> Hi stalker... You're just pissed you didn't think of it.
You're psychotic, Snowjob. Your own website revealed there were
hundreds and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years between the
supposed time of the Trojan War and the first century, thereby
revealing your theory as wholly ludicrous as your theory Lucifer is
referring to the false apostle Paul.
Here, you forgot the links proving how stupid you are:
Your wild claims about the Trojan War and Paul's buddy Pyrrhus within
the last couple of days highlights your status as a blind leader of
the blind and that you as a teacher of anything (and especially of the
Scriptures) is a JOKE:
See http://groups.google.com/group/alt.bible/msg/46aa84f9b0e9334a
and http://groups.google.com/group/alt.bible/msg/d300b22a915d0ee7
> I'd be happy
> to agree to never speak to or about you ever again if you would agree
> to do the same.
You're a liar; you have no intention of not bugging me or gossiping
about me as you've proven time and again; you just don't want your
many mistakes pointed out.
Snow
> > I'd be happy
> > to agree to never speak to or about you ever again if you would agree
> > to do the same.
>
> You're a liar; you have no intention of not bugging me or gossiping
> about me as you've proven time and again; you just don't want your
> many mistakes pointed out.
See.. I make the offer and you refuse... You are unable to agree to
disagree and simply stop stalking me because you have deep troubling
issues and they have nothing to do with me.
Let's face it Linda.. we are never going to agree and all you do is
spew hatred every day.. you can't even work up the the imagination to
pretend that your giving praise to anybody but your own ego.
Stop posting to me.. I stop posting to you.. stop talking about me.. I
never want to hear about you ever again. I happen to think your a
revolting person. I have no desire to ever know you or even think
about you.
The reality is that you are the one unable to simply let go.
Rod
> On Dec 15, 5:18 pm, Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
>> On Dec 16, 8:56 am, Rod <spa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Snow wrote:
>>>> On Dec 16, 6:56 am, Rod <spa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> vince garcia wrote:
>>>>>> * Paul is referring to the very "yoke" that the Judaiser of then, and
>>>>>> the heretic of today, seek to place upon the neck of Gentile believers:
>>>>>> observance of the Torah (see verse 3, Mathew 11: 28-30, and Acts
>>>>>> 15:7-10).
>>>>> It seems to me that the answer to your concerns lies within what
>>>>> the Apostles taught to those they ministered to. There are several
>>>>> arguments on this topic; one side says the commandments are needed,
>>>>> the other says they are done away with. The first step to solving
>>>>> this is to realize that Paul is NOT an apostle. The second step is
>>>>> to seek out the true apostles teachings. What Christ taught them
>>>>> concerning the Gentiles will be reflected in those teachings.
>
>
> Oh is Rod doing his pretend-believer thing again so soon?
I really don't know whether to feel sorry for you,
or hate you. You must be the one dumbest person
in the universe.
There is NO specific rule of law or in the field of
PHYSICS that say I have to BELIEVE your bible in order
to READ IT or DISCUSS what it SAYS!
Snow, will you PLEASE make certain this MORON sees
this post be reposting it!
Linda...your stupidity it TRYING my patience.....
> (You two are
> just alike,
DO SHUT UP!
Snow
She sees it.. she's just a hate spewing, I don't know...
I can’t read your post Linda, they make people dumber for having even
looked at them. You can read this the first time or the hundredth time
this gets spammed back at you Linda but this is it.. I’m done with
you.
Rev 22:11 “He who does wrong, let him do more wrong; he who is filthy,
let him be more filthy; he who is righteous, let him be more
righteous; he who is set-apart, let him be more set-apart.
Dear very SICK, DEMENTED STALKER JEZEBEL. Please feel free to end
this boring spam war at any time and agree to actually follow the
teachings of the Messiah...
What this means is that you go your way in peace and make your post..
I go my way and make my post and we have no need to ever speak to each
other ever again...
You see, I am not the one that is in love with you.. you are the one
that is in love with me and this is why you can't let go of posting to
me , YOU ARE OBSESSED WITH GETTING A SNOWJOB that you aren't getting.
I really do not think it is too much to ask that you keep your posting
to other people and not speak of me on a daily bases in your anal
retentive, boring accusations.
This is not my first spam war as you well KNOW. I’ve been in these on
your side trying to help fend off people just a psychotic as you like
CARL. I’ve patiently asked you many times to stop your attacks on me
and even when you’re not talking to me, you’re talking about me. You
are obsessed with ME, not your deity, not obeying any so called
proclaimed “spirit” that you clearly do not possess unless you’re
claiming a demon.
If you need a confession, this is it: I do not like you. I have no
desire to share your dogma, speak to you or even know anything of you.
Look, I get it that your this needy person who thinks that if you call
people Chauvinist, that people might think this has anything with you
being a female but you know it doesn’t.. It’s about you showing a tiny
bit of restraint and not attacking me on a daily bases as you have
every time you post for the past YEAR.
Its probably is hard for you to understand, given that maybe you
thought I was a friend of yours while you went around behaving like
the witch that you are… the reality is that people have a right to
post without being attacked and that is why I sided with you when Carl
spam attacked you.
I can agree to not post in threads you start and I can agree to NEVER
mention you again and honestly if I never heard from you again, that
would greatly please me but I respect that you have the right to post,
unlike you. I respect that you have a freedom of speech, JUST LIKE I
DO.
You do not have to agree with me but I do ask that you let me be.
I realize that this is probably your idea of a cry for help.. I
cannot give it to you.. seek professional help or get somebody else
that is willing to speak with you to get help you so badly need.
I realize that you are jealous of the fact that nobody listens to you
are cares about you… that Ike tells you what a witch you are… What
makes you think I disagree or agree with him? Why are you trying to
associate us? Because you are jealous, which really is a sad site
because…
We don’t agree on dogma, we can’t communicate like civil people, why
not just do one simple thing and end this stupid harassment NOW
instead of ten years from now or whenever enough people complain?
Is it that hard for you to just leave me alone? Are you so possessed
by evil spirits that you can’t simply follow those teachings you swear
you follow instead of just falsely accusing every person you talk to
on a daily bases?
As to my speaking on the dogma of Christianity, I do not attack
individuals, I speak of an entire belief system and this is my right
to do so.
You on the other hand have made this VERY PERSONAL and so, I see it as
completely different. If you want to speak about how evil “Messianic”
faith is.. be my guest.. have at it. I know that the truth prevails
and I have no fear of anything you have to say about my system of
beliefs.
Your primary problem is that you still insist on being identified as a
Christian because you feel a need to conform to that belief system in
some way or form but the reality is that Christians believe Apostle
Paul and so, you are in denial of what you are by Christian standards,
a heretic.
Now, since I am Messianic, this does not bother me in the slightest.
It doesn’t bother me to be labeled “anti Christ” either because I know
the truth… I honor my Messiah’s teachings by doing my best to do what
is right and I don’t just pick and choose which of the scriptures I
keep, I keep them all that speak according to the Torah of My ELOHIM
YAHWEH EL SHADDAI.
I get it that you pretend to reject Paul and you also reject Moses
even though you deny this fact! You deny the name of YAHWEH every
chance you get… I can live with that.. I spoke my peace, I’m done with
you and no more communication between us is ever needed, wanted or
desired in any way shape or form.
I don’t want you to apologize, I don’t want your forgiveness, I DON’T
NEED IT. You can carry your hatred with you until you rot in your
grave or… you can let it go, it’s all your choice.. everything is your
choice.. will it end now?
Examining the reality of what I have come to know about Linda Lee is
that she rejects the entire bible. To her, the bible is something she
can use to ATTACK OTHER PEOPLE but she has no need to actually put
into practice the teachings of the Messiah herself. She does this
because it is really her desire to spread her hatred. She hates men
and exhibits many traits of a Lesbian, where all men are pigs and she
is a victim of male aggression when in reality, she is the person that
institutes aggression on a daily bases...
If not over "the divinity of Christ" she has railed about "murdering
false apostle Paul" for YEARS now attacking every person that dares to
attempt to speak with her on the topic.
She rejects Moses, she rejects Paul and she pays lip service to her
supposed deity Jesus. She claims her deity preached the commandments
but then later says that one can't keep the Ten Commandments and so it
must be by "grace" that she is entitled to her claims. So while she
rails against Paul, she closely adhere to his doctrine in practice and
only disagrees with his "anti feminist" statements about woman
learning in silence.
Rod
> looked at them. You can read this the first time or the hundredth time
> you.
>
> Rev 22:11 �He who does wrong, let him do more wrong; he who is filthy,
> let him be more filthy; he who is righteous, let him be more
> righteous; he who is set-apart, let him be more set-apart.
>
> Dear very SICK, DEMENTED STALKER JEZEBEL. Please feel free to end
> this boring spam war at any time and agree to actually follow the
> teachings of the Messiah...
>
> What this means is that you go your way in peace and make your post..
> I go my way and make my post and we have no need to ever speak to each
> other ever again...
>
> You see, I am not the one that is in love with you.. you are the one
> that is in love with me and this is why you can't let go of posting to
> me , YOU ARE OBSESSED WITH GETTING A SNOWJOB that you aren't getting.
>
> I really do not think it is too much to ask that you keep your posting
> to other people and not speak of me on a daily bases in your anal
> retentive, boring accusations.
>
> your side trying to help fend off people just a psychotic as you like
> and even when you�re not talking to me, you�re talking about me. You
> are obsessed with ME, not your deity, not obeying any so called
> claiming a demon.
>
> If you need a confession, this is it: I do not like you. I have no
> desire to share your dogma, speak to you or even know anything of you.
>
> Look, I get it that your this needy person who thinks that if you call
> people Chauvinist, that people might think this has anything with you
> bit of restraint and not attacking me on a daily bases as you have
> every time you post for the past YEAR.
>
> Its probably is hard for you to understand, given that maybe you
> thought I was a friend of yours while you went around behaving like
> post without being attacked and that is why I sided with you when Carl
> spam attacked you.
>
> I can agree to not post in threads you start and I can agree to NEVER
> mention you again and honestly if I never heard from you again, that
> would greatly please me but I respect that you have the right to post,
> unlike you. I respect that you have a freedom of speech, JUST LIKE I
> DO.
>
> You do not have to agree with me but I do ask that you let me be.
>
> I realize that this is probably your idea of a cry for help.. I
> cannot give it to you.. seek professional help or get somebody else
> that is willing to speak with you to get help you so badly need.
>
> I realize that you are jealous of the fact that nobody listens to you
> makes you think I disagree or agree with him? Why are you trying to
> associate us? Because you are jealous, which really is a sad site
>
> We don�t agree on dogma, we can�t communicate like civil people, why
> not just do one simple thing and end this stupid harassment NOW
> instead of ten years from now or whenever enough people complain?
>
> Is it that hard for you to just leave me alone? Are you so possessed
> you follow instead of just falsely accusing every person you talk to
> on a daily bases?
>
> As to my speaking on the dogma of Christianity, I do not attack
> individuals, I speak of an entire belief system and this is my right
> to do so.
>
> You on the other hand have made this VERY PERSONAL and so, I see it as
> faith is.. be my guest.. have at it. I know that the truth prevails
> and I have no fear of anything you have to say about my system of
> beliefs.
>
> Your primary problem is that you still insist on being identified as a
> Christian because you feel a need to conform to that belief system in
> some way or form but the reality is that Christians believe Apostle
> Paul and so, you are in denial of what you are by Christian standards,
> a heretic.
>
> Now, since I am Messianic, this does not bother me in the slightest.
> the truth� I honor my Messiah�s teachings by doing my best to do what
> is right and I don�t just pick and choose which of the scriptures I
> keep, I keep them all that speak according to the Torah of My ELOHIM
> YAHWEH EL SHADDAI.
>
> I get it that you pretend to reject Paul and you also reject Moses
> even though you deny this fact! You deny the name of YAHWEH every
> you and no more communication between us is ever needed, wanted or
> desired in any way shape or form.
>
> NEED IT. You can carry your hatred with you until you rot in your
> choice.. will it end now?
>
> Examining the reality of what I have come to know about Linda Lee is
> that she rejects the entire bible. To her, the bible is something she
> can use to ATTACK OTHER PEOPLE but she has no need to actually put
> into practice the teachings of the Messiah herself. She does this
> because it is really her desire to spread her hatred. She hates men
> and exhibits many traits of a Lesbian, where all men are pigs and she
> is a victim of male aggression when in reality, she is the person that
> institutes aggression on a daily bases...
>
> If not over "the divinity of Christ" she has railed about "murdering
> false apostle Paul" for YEARS now attacking every person that dares to
> attempt to speak with her on the topic.
>
> She rejects Moses, she rejects Paul and she pays lip service to her
> supposed deity Jesus. She claims her deity preached the commandments
> but then later says that one can't keep the Ten Commandments and so it
> must be by "grace" that she is entitled to her claims. So while she
> rails against Paul, she closely adhere to his doctrine in practice and
> only disagrees with his "anti feminist" statements about woman
> learning in silence.
>
>
I repent of having called her a bitch. That was quite unfair to
female dogs.
Rod
Cujo speaks, and no one listens..
Aaron
They taught that the followers of Yshu`a the Messiah are not bound by
the Chumrotbut are bound my the Mitzvot. Both the words "Chumrot" and
"Mitzvot" are translated into Greek as "nomos" which is then
translated as "law." But if we believe that the Bible is true, then
no one part can contradict any other part. Most Christians do not
know what commandments are in the Bible, what the Oral Law is or where
to find it or what rules are rabbinical in origin. The Mitzvot are
the 613 Commandments that God gave us in the Bible. God repeatedly
says that these are eternal. Messiah said that all of the
Commandments (Mitzvot) are in full effect "until Heaven and Earth are
destroyed and everything has happened." Obviously Heaven and Earth
still exist and not everything has happened.
The Chumrot are rabbinical additions to the Law. These are not to be
confused with the Oral Laws which instruct as to the correct WAY to
obey a Commandment; the Chumrot are additions. The intent of the
Chumrot was to keep people away from temptation, a noble goal, but
people are responcible for keeping themselves away from temptation.
BTW: Rabbi Shaul (Paul) was an Apostle (Representative) but not a
Talmid (Disciple, Student).
>
Aaron
<vggar...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>As it nears Christmas, I think it is time to re-post this...
***SNIP***
PAGANISM
When we first think of Paganism, we think of clearly defined pantheons
of gods each unique to the country that invented each false religion.
However, this is not exactly the case. While the false "gods" of the
pagan religions were invented in various countries, sometimes they
were modeled after the myths of their neighbors or several might be
modeled after an older, extinct mythos. In some cases, with the
formation of empires, different gods that supposedly ruled the same
aspect of the world were combined. This last scenario became more
frequent as time went on. The Babylonian, Persian, and Median cults
were combined in the time of Darius the Meade, Conqueror of Babylon,
Emperor of Persia, and father of Achashverosh/Xerxes, the Persian king
in the book of Ester. Later the Roman Empire assimilated religions
from the Teutons, the Druids, the Greeks, the Egyptians, and the
Babylonian/Persian Empire. While we might first question how the
people could accept these changes/additions, we must remember that
they were taught that all religions were valid to some degree.
Furthermore, no pagan "god" was invented as being solitary to the
exclusion of the existence of other "gods."
By the Fourth Century when Catholicism was being invented by Emperor
Constantine and the Council of Nicea, Rome's Paganism had reached its
most eclectic state ever. The Babylonian cult of Mithra had actually
moved it central Temple to Vatican Hill in Rome. Mithraism and its
more romanized version "Sol Invictus" were the fastest growing pagan
cults in Rome.
One might now ask, "How did this cult begin?" It began thousands of
years earlier with the cult of Ninurta, a "sun-god." In the most
ancient Babylonian/Sumerian culture. The myth of this "god" fathered
the cults of Tammuz in Babylon, and Mithra in Persia. Other
derivatives were more distorted as the rumors of the false religion
were spread by travelers. Tammuz was symbolized by the cross, which
"miraculously" appeared when the sun was viewed through darkly colored
silk (they did not have tinted lenses for viewing the sun so, darkly
colored silk was used to look at their "god"). Mithra provided
protection of the people. Both cults worshiped on SUNday.
When they were unified with the conquest of Babylon by Darius the
Meade, Emperor of Persia, the cults of Tammuz and Mithra was combined
into one religion referred to as "Mithraism." The Persians retained
the person version of the name, but assimilated and added most of the
Babylonian worship practices to their own.
Both cults agreed that their god was the son of Easter/Ishtar/Astarte.
This "goddess" was basically unchanged in all three countries. She
was supposedly the "star-goddess." She was proclaimed as a "perpetual
virgin" who gave birth to Mithra on December 25 through an "immaculate
conception." Additionally, she was supposedly hatched from an egg in
the spring, hence the holiday of Easter, which has not even changed
names since then. Her worshipers counted their prayers on a string of
beads known as a "rosary."
In the combined cult, Mithra was seen as a saviour providing both
earthly protection and forgiveness of sins. It is unknown how much
impact the Jewish captive's belief in the coming Messiah influenced
the development of the myth of Mithra, but this salvific aspect is not
known to have been present in either of the original cults.
In the combined cult, worshipers of Mithra went to their places of
worship on Sunday and ate small round pieces of bread which had
supposedly been "enchanted" by their leader, the "Holy Father" to
become the body of Mithra. This was known as "Communion." The idea
was that even if a person was unworthy of Mithra's blessing, Mithra
would still act to protect the piece of himself inside the worshiper.
The cult of Mithra also observed an initiation ritual referred to as
becoming "covered by the blood" in which a bull was sacrificed to
Mithra on an platform above the new initiate and the animal's blood
would cover the new cultist.
Mithra's birthday, December 25 was celebrated as an annual festival.
This celebration was added to from many other pagan sources since
almost all if not all of the Pagan religions had festivals honoring
gods born on Dec 25 or who were believed to do or have done something
significant on that day. Some of the mythological "gods" supposedly
born on Dec 25 include: Krishna, Vishnu, Mithra (Mithras), Osirus,
Horus, Tammuz, and Indra, as well as these other false gods: Dionysus
(Bacchus), Herakles (Hercules), and Buddha. Additionally, Freyr
supposedly revived the dieing sun at this time. The night preceding
December 25 (Christmas Eve = Mother Night) was also considered holy to
Frigga and some other "mother/wife goddesses."
In Later Mithraism and in Zoroasterism, Mithra's Father Ahura-Mazda
was seen as Law maker and Mithra was the source of salvation.
Astarte/Ishtar/Easter was still the mother of Mithra but her status as
perpetual virgin was even more strongly emphasized. This non-sexual
conception was believed to add to the claims of divinity of both
Mithra and Astarte/Ishtar/Easter. It also put more distance between
father and son. This showed an almost adversarial relationship
between Ahura-Mazda, the violation of whose laws resulted in
damnation, and Mithra, who provided salvation.
A curious note is that the winter solstice is on December 22 in
regular years and late on December 21 in leap years, not on December
25. One might ascribe all of these commonalities among different
pagan religions to be based on observed astronomical phemonemon, but
for all these pagan cultures to have festivals that are off from the
actual day by the same three days seems suspicious. We might expect
some small errors in calculations among primitive people, but for them
all to be off by three days in the same direction is highly
improbable. Is there a real evil of December 25? Is the December 25
date part of Satan's plan for the Tribulation, the "Time of Jacob's
Troubles"?
In Druidic mythology December 25 was the most evil time of the year
with the eve prior to the day being the time when they believed that
the forces of evil were the most powerful. It was believed to be very
evil when a winter storm came out of the north or when a strong wind
blew out of the north on that night or day.
The Christian theologian Origen did a great deal of damage to the
theology of the early Gentile followers of Jesus. Origen began
preaching without any formal training at an early age. He castrated
himself out of a mistaken fanaticism for a non-biblical idea of
"purity." As a result of his self mutilation, he was denied
ordination. Apparently at that time many of the Gentile leaders still
understood the Judaic teachings of the Disciples and knew that God
forbid castration. Origen developed a large following rivaling that
of the "official" church in Alexandria and was ordained in 230 CE, to
keep his followers in the established congregation. However, his own
bishop found his teachings so anti-Biblical that he ordered Origen
deposed and banished from Alexandria. Origen founded his own school
of teaching in 231CE in Caesarea. He wrote many apologetics to the
pagans attempting to explain belief in the God of Judaism and in Jesus
the Messiah. Origen used the pagan theosophy of "Middle Platonic
Philosophy" to explain his belief in Jesus. This mixture of Greek
paganism and Messianic Jewish beliefs resulted in an influx of new
converts and effected the beliefs of existing "Believers." Sadly,
Origen opened the way for full scale paganization of the quickly
growing Gentile branch of the Messianic movement.
When the Catholic Church was established at the command of Roman
Emperor Constantine Rex, in 325BCE, many pagan beliefs were codified
as part of the new religion. Some scholars have made accusation of
deliberate conspiracy to adopt paganism in order to trick pagans into
accepting Catholicism as their religion. However, there is no way for
us to know why evil practices were added into the mix that became
Catholicism. There simply could have been a great deal of confusion.
As Catholicism spread across Europe, Southwest Asia, and North Africa,
the church adopted the assimilation policy of the Roman Empire. The
false "gods" of the Pagans were relabeled as "saints." These Saints
were given fictitious histories and their idols were still prayed to
by the same people who prayed to them as "gods." Additionally, local
Pagan customs were assimilated. So, the original
Babylonian/Roman/Jewish bastardization was further corrupted by
Tuetonic, Druidic, Odinistic, and even Egyptian paganism. In 435CE
the first "Christmas" was officiated by Pope Sixtus III.
In the Third Century CE, the congregations of Followers of Messiah,
both those whose membership was completely Jewish and those whose
membership was predominately Gentiles who had converted, prohibited
the Pagan custom of decorating their home with evergreen in the
winter. This "Decking the Halls" was part of the worship Of Saturn
who was supposedly born on December 25. Saturn has been identified by
many archaeologists to have been an offshoot of the myth of Ninurta
which also gave rise to the myths of Tamuz and Mithra. Saturn was a
polished up version of Sol, a "sun-god" worshiped by the Edomite
pagans who founded the Roman Empire after fleeing the Middle East most
probably after their defeat when they attempted to invade Israel.
Later, due to the cultural link provided by Mark Anthony and
Cleopatra, the Egyptian myth of the mother of Adonis, the "sun-god"
was mystically said to have been changed into a TREE, and when in that
state to have brought forth her divine son.
The Scandinavian Pagans and the Druids revered evergreens as
manifestations of their various deities because they did not become
dormant in winter but stayed green and visibly alive when other plants
appeared dead and bare. The trees represented everlasting life and
hope for the return of spring.
The druids decorated their trees with symbols of prosperity - a
fruitful harvest, coins for wealth and various charms such as those
for love or fertility. Scandinavian Pagans are thought to be the
first to bring their decorated trees indoors as this provided a warm
and welcoming environment for the "native fairy folk" and dryads
(tree "elementals") to join in the holiday festivities. The Saxons, a
Germanic pagan tribe, were the first to place lights on the their
trees in the form of candles.
The earliest documented Christian use of the evergreen tree being used
and decorated (but without lights) for Christmas is in 1521 in the
German region of Alsace. The assimilation of this Pagan custom was
slow. German born Prince Albert, husband of Queen Victoria, is
credited with starting the trend in England in 1841 when he brought
the first Christmas Tree to Windsor Castle.
In the North American Colonies, the most strict Puritans believed that
December 25 was so steeped in Paganism that they rejected Christmas
all together. Those of this bent started Thanksgiving as a
replacement for Christmas, and a Gentile attempt to celebrate Sukkot
without the benefit of a Hebrew Calendar.
While Europe had already been celebrating Christmas for some time, the
first recorded sighting of a "Christmas tree" in America came in
1830's Pennsylvania. A local church erected the tree as a
fund-raising effort, not as an actual part of their celebration of
Christmas. Christmas trees were generally not thought kindly of in
early America, as many people saw them as Pagan symbols. By the
1890's, however, Christmas ornaments were being imported from Germany
and Christmas trees were in high fashion.
With the advent of electricity, "Holiday Trees" began to appear in
town squares across America and the traditional "lighting of the tree"
quickly became the official symbols of the beginning of the "season of
holidays," including Saint Nicholas' Day (December 6TH), Catholic
Christmas (December 25TH), Saint Stephen's Day(December 26TH), Saint
John the Evangelist's Day (December 27TH), Holy Innocents' Day
(December 28TH), Saint Sylvester's Day (December 31ST), New Years Eve
(December 31ST) New Years Day (January 1ST), Epiphany (January 6TH),
Greek Orthodox Christmas (January 7TH). In more enlightened areas,
Christians welcomed Chanukah as a Jewish part of this holiday season,
though Judaism never accepted the inclusion of Pagan elements such as
the "Holiday Tree" into Jewish worship.
It has been speculated that the children of Chronos/Saturn, the
Greek/Roman "gods" and "goddesses" Zeus/Jupiter, Posideon/Neptune,
Hades/Pluto, Hera/Juno, Demeter/Ceres, Hestia/Vesta, were honored
during these other December January days of the season. The Twelve
days of Saturnalia (Christmas) honored the Twelve Survivors of the war
against Saturn, the Olympians: Zeus (Jupiter), Hera (Juno), Poseidon
(Neptune), Demeter (Ceres), Apollo, Artemis (Diana), Ares (Mars),
Hephaestus (Vulcan), Aphrodite (Venus),Hermes (Mercury), Athene
(Minerva), and Hades (Pluto). Bachus who, according to most myths of
him, joined the Olympians later, was the "god of drunkeness," who was
supposedly born on December 25TH.
In Deuteronomy 12, God forbid His People from assimilating Pagan
worship customs in an attempt to worship Him. The faith in the one
REAL God is commanded to be pure and uncorrupted by Paganism. "His
People" does not just mean those of Jewish descent, it means all
people who dedicate themselves to Him and love Him. Those of us who
love God must be KADOSH. The word "kadosh" is usually translated as
"holy," but actually means "separated for God's purposes." God
commands those whop serve Him to be "Kadosh as I am Kadosh." Since he
is completely separate from all Paganism, we must be also.
A partial list of sources
"The Two Babylons" Rev. Alexander Hislop
"Religion of the Ancient Babylonians" Rev. A. H. Sayce
"The Last Days of Greco-Roman Paganism" Johannes Geffcken
"Conversion of Constantine and Pagan Rome" Alfoldi
"Mystery Religions" Josecelyn Godwin
"Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge" Schaff-Herzog
"Forerunners and Rivals of Christianity" Legge
"Religions of the Roman Empire" John Ferguson
"Oriental Religions in Roman Paganism" Franz Cumont
"Ancient Pagan Symbols" E. Goldsmith
John Gardner
at the end of your post: "When I hear messianic doctrine such as you
espouse, I simply explode in rage over the lie I know it is, based not on my
to - in which case, why apologize? -- or you can't help yourself -- you have
something like spiritual Tourette's syndrome -- so you just need
accommodation for your disability & no apology is needed.
I don't know what false gospel you were in, or what group you fellowship
with now. Were you a JW? It's not my business, really.
Sure, there are differences between natural Jewish & Gentile believers. You
mentioned circumcision. I don't know a single messianic who's brandishing a
brit milah knife.
On the other hand, Paul says in Rom. 11:
13I am talking to you Gentiles... 16..If the root is holy, so are the
branches. 17If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a
wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the
nourishing sap from the olive root, 18do not boast over those branches. If
you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports
you."
I am assuming that Paul wrote with apostolic authority. I know Snow, Linda
Lee and Rod would not agree.
So the Olive Tree of Israel, rooted in Avraham, has both circumcised &
uncircumcised branches. But we share the same tree-DNA, we share the same
nourishing sap -- and I believe the end-time prophecies clearly show that
much of natural Israel will be saved by supernatural means. So, when they're
fully grafted back in -- and many are coming back already -- are we going to
welcome them back to a cold, Jew-hating, suspicious place? Watch out! We
must just get snapped off for good if we're "branches" of that kind!!
We could go on and on about sin and grace. I'll give you a mini-parable, it
might help.
Old farmer goes into country doctor's office. "It's my eyes, doc". "What
seems to be the problem?" Farmer rubs both eyes, hard, with filthy, manure
encrusted hands. "They hurt". Doctor says, "You're rubbing barnyard s__ into
your eyes! The bacteria in all that s___ are inflaming the lens and
irritating the optic nerve!! You've got to keep your fingers out of your
eyes, wash regularly with strong soap, use disposable gloves for a month.
Meantime, here's a prescription for eye drops".
Farmer comes in next month tapping white cane. "What now?" "Aw, all that
stuff yuh told me t'do got me so confused I couldn't see the d__ eyedrops!".
The Law -- the doctor -- tells us the results of persisting in ... well,
let's call it "sin". And it tells us practical things to do to avoid it or
abate its effects. Now, in our example, a surgeon (Yeshua) could intervene
and repair the optic nerve -- if the farmer would let Him. But neither the
surgeon nor the GP could cancel the "law" that rubbing s__ into an eyeaball
will cause damage, maybe blindness. And. by the way, don't blame the
doctor!! It's not HIS s___ that's getting rubbed into the farmer's eye!
Regards,
Jochanan.
"vince garcia" <vggar...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:4B27F7...@ix.netcom.com...
John Gardner
our homes in late December "in honour of Yeshua" kinda reminds me of
offering up pigs at the Temple ... in a good cause you understand ... Poor,
misunderstood Antiochus Epiphanes, those Maccabees just didn't understand
his motives...
"Aaron" <an...@home.net> wrote in message
news:ka8gi55j3rukqs630...@4ax.com...
John Gardner
"Vince" told me: "And i would like to apologize for my near-unrestrained
fury i directed toward you out of seemingly nowhere yesterday." I accepted
this. Nuff said.
"Linda Lee" <lindag...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:d6906bdf-cce6-4024...@t19g2000vbc.googlegroups.com...
vince garcia
>
> On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 17:05:21 -0800, vince garcia
> <vggar...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> >As it nears Christmas, I think it is time to re-post this...
> ***SNIP***
>
That's nice. You're still teaching a heretical gospel.
And my point still stands: Satan and his demon inspired politicians and
judges spend no effort whatever opposing the false religion YOU teach,
because it works to their ends by leading people away from the truth;
but they have their sites set right on the very celebrations you label
pagan.
Why? Because those celebrations proclaim the everlasting gospel: The
virgin birth, and the death, burial and resurrection of Christ--and
satan wants to drive people as far away from that as he can.
Your judaising theology, meanwhile, is no real threat to him. You and
your messianic fellows are making no real impact in spreading any true
gospel to the lost, and so he is quite content to focus on the
LEGITIMATE gospel that you are not a part of.
Qadosh Stephanos
> I repent of having called her a bitch. That was quite unfair to
> female dogs.
I guess that means MALE dogs are better.
John Gardner
And the $400 billion that Americans spend on ChristMass promote the gospel.
And Santa Claus... and his elves ... and the workshop ...and Rudolph the
Red-Nosed Reindeer ... and Frosty .. and Late Night Shopping Hours ... and
Chestnuts Roasting on an Open Fire ... and Jingle Bells ...and Charlie Brown
ChristMass Specials ... and children's Letters to Santa about what toys they
want this year ... these are ... uhhh ... tools of evangelism?
John.
:
"vince garcia" <vggar...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:4B282B...@ix.netcom.com...
vince garcia
> >
> > That is the heresy pervading Messianic Judaism, and what defines much of
> > it--but certainly not all of it--as a heretical movement to be avoided
> > and denounced from the pulpit.
> >
> > copyright by Vince Garcia
>
> You're writing a book on Messianics now, Vince?
no, no. These were just some notes from something else that I put into a
post form. I have, though, spoken to Matt Slick, a good apologist who
runs carm.org, about writing a page denouncing the heresies of the
messianic movement. We may tackle that at some point.
That's great that
> you're writing on the Scriptures.
>
> But you should be careful about being so adamant about everyone's
> motives, claiming you can lump together the motives of everyone into
> one bunch. When you use "all" and "always", it if most often in error,
> and many will notice it is wrong.
You are right; I am being broad brush. But as I have told rob, I have
been into the messianic movement since the early 90s. That's almost 20
years now. From then til now, virtually the only messianics I have had
contact with have been those repeating the same hersies outlined in my
article.
THEIRS seems to be the voice that comes to the fore in speaking for the
messianic movement, so I am left basically NEEDED to broad brush,
because the 'balanced' messianics are so hard to find that they seem to
be having no impact on the messiainc movement, which is rife with
damnable heresy.
Rob says they're actually the majority, though, so perhaps THOSE sorts
of messianics are simply hidden in acceptable Christian denominations.
Well...the problem is not coming from them; it's coming from the Aarons,
the Sams, the johns, and other messianics better, worse, or the same,
who likewise deny major essentials of the chrisian gospel, while
heralding themselves as the REAL Christians.
That sound like the sort of thing you get with EVERY cult? Of course.
That's because those people ARE cultists
>
> I don't call myself a Messianic. I call myself a Christian because
> that is a follower of Christ, and the Messiah did not say anywhere
> that anyone other than himself must be accepted to obtain eternal
> life.
I know and respect that. You just as wrong as snow in some things you
believe, but at least you understand and accept the need to beloieve in
the full Godhood of Christ. And that has the potential of opening your
heart to other truths you have rejected.
But the messianic who can't even believe in the deity of Christ has
rejected so much of the real gospel, he is basically in the same boat of
the judaisers, and headed for the same dmnation.
Don't forget--Paul's messianic opposers fully believed Jesus was the
messiah just as adam, john or sam do.
But they were dead wrong in their core salvation theology, and they
wound up eternally lost, while oppoising the true gospel along the way.
(Now if you deny paul, you probably feel the opposite of this, but i am
speaking from an orthodox Christian viewpoint)
>
> I DO use the Hebrew name of the Messiah in order to be more accurate
> and to show respect, but I have had prayers answered in an immediate
> miraculous way using the name "Jesus" years ago when I knew no other
> name for Christ. (I also had a miracle occur after praying to
> Yahashua`. Although I have not had occasion to pray for deliverance in
> the Aramaic/Hebrew name of Yeshua`, I would think this name would also
> gain a response.)
It's the person, not the name, that is critical. But it;s how you DEFINE
the person that determines whether you have the RIGHT person. As I
noted, virtually all of the messianics I have known, tout the name
yeshua as a repudiation of JESUS and what they see is false gentile
christianity.
That's the problem
This leads me to believe the Messiah knows what
> names he is called in different languages and does respond to those
> names. But I also believe it is disrespectful not to use his real name
> when that name becomes known to us.
>
> Almost all Messianic groups accept Paul as a valid apostle just like
> almost all Christian groups do.
Most do. But as you can see for yourself, they pervert his words and
teachings just like Gal 5 refers to, speaking of people claiming paul
actually approved of circumcision and torah observance, and he makes the
point that if he taught the very stuff he was rebuking the judaisers
for, the offence of the cross would cease to these people. He then goes
on to wish they would castrate themselves
And that's true--the judaisers of acts 15 would have had no issue if
paul approved of torah observance (which also requires circumcision)
But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed,
saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, --and to command them to
keep the law of Moses--
It's not just an operation they're talking about as james affirms again
in acts 21:
23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a
vow7 on them;
24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them,
that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things,
whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou
thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.
25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded
that:
they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from
things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from
fornication.
But demonized perverts will insist that No, they required the gentiles
to keep the full torah as well
The problem, as i once poiinted out, is that ENTOLE can simply mean "do
what you're told"
But WE DO 'keep the comamdnments, but the issue is what that means.
We DO NOT keep them as a forensic part of the salvation process. (In
other words, make sure we keep them well enough to make sure we did them
at least 51% of the time to guarantee we get into heaven); if we do, we
have polluted the gospel.
AND THE FAITH OF JESUS.__ And I
> heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead
> which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that
> they may rest from their labors; and their works do follow them�.
>
> Paul says in Rom. 8:1-6 that those who walk in the Spirit, rather than
> 'walking in the flesh' (our 'walk' in life being our behavior),
> fulfill the righteousness of the law (Commandments):
essentially, yeah. Remember:
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love
thy neighbour as thyself. (paul)
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love
thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well (james)
No disagreement.
the problem is to misunderstand what 'keeping the comamndments'
means--and the cults universally misunderstand this to mean: "Keep a
bunch of biblical comamnds of the old testament, along with the
ordinances of... the watchtower society...the prophet joseph
smith...David Koresh...the teaching magisterium of the church...the
council of elders...and so on.
That's where the heresy comes in, and that's why paul says:
WHERE NO LAW IS, THERE IS NO TRANSGRESSION
and THE STRENGTH OF SIN IS THE LAW
So for the record...NO, we're not "under" the 10 comamdnments the way
the jews were "under" the so-called law of 613.
The 10 comamdnments are fine. And it's fine to 'keep' them in the sense
of moral guidelines. But the second you treat them as an existing
specific covenant upon which righteousness before God is dependent, you
have crossed into heresy because yoiu cannot keep even 10 to the degree
a perfect God requires...
Because the law worketh wrath: FOR WHERE NO LAW IS, THERE IS NO
TRANSGRESSION
>
I note that, yeh
vince garcia
>
> So let's see. The ChristMass trees and twinkling lights promote the gospel.
> And the $400 billion that Americans spend on ChristMass promote the gospel.
> And Santa Claus... and his elves ... and the workshop ...and Rudolph the
> Red-Nosed Reindeer ... and Frosty .. and Late Night Shopping Hours ... and
> Chestnuts Roasting on an Open Fire ... and Jingle Bells ...and Charlie Brown
> ChristMass Specials ... and children's Letters to Santa about what toys they
> want this year ... these are ... uhhh ... tools of evangelism?
>
> John.
ABSOLUTELY! Jesus is the REASON for the season, and satan's minions know
that and go all out to try and remove that from our culture every chance
they get by renaming CHRISTMAS to YULETIME, or using terms like HOLIDAY
BREAK, HOLIDAY TREE, and other christ-denying terms.
They--unlike you--know PRECISELY what it's ultimately about.
YOUR false religion, meanwhile, is no threat, does nothing to win the
lost, and so satan lets it be, laughing at you the whole time
Rod
How exactly..do you arrive at decisions...that is assuming you
have ever made any ?
Linda Lee
LOL! First it's praise of how intelligent I am and how you like my
posts, now it's back to this, and all because you messed up and
revealed once again how dumb you are with the Pyrrhus/Trojan war
thingie. LOL!
Stuff it Snowjob.
Snow
> > The reality is that you are the one unable to simply let go.
>
> LOL! First it's praise of how intelligent I am and how you like my
> posts, now it's back to this, and all because you messed up and
> revealed once again how dumb you are with the Pyrrhus/Trojan war
> thingie. LOL!
>
> Stuff it Snowjob.
I can’t read your post Linda, they make people dumber for having even
looked at them. You can read this the first time or the hundredth time
this gets spammed back at you Linda but this is it.. I’m done with
you.
Rev 22:11 “He who does wrong, let him do more wrong; he who is filthy,
let him be more filthy; he who is righteous, let him be more
righteous; he who is set-apart, let him be more set-apart.
Dear very SICK, DEMENTED STALKER JEZEBEL. Please feel free to end
this boring spam war at any time and agree to actually follow the
teachings of the Messiah...
What this means is that you go your way in peace and make your post..
I go my way and make my post and we have no need to ever speak to each
other ever again...
You see, I am not the one that is in love with you.. you are the one
that is in love with me and this is why you can't let go of posting to
me , YOU ARE OBSESSED WITH GETTING A SNOWJOB that you aren't getting.
I really do not think it is too much to ask that you keep your posting
to other people and not speak of me on a daily bases in your anal
retentive, boring accusations.
This is not my first spam war as you well KNOW. I’ve been in these on
your side trying to help fend off people just a psychotic as you like
CARL. I’ve patiently asked you many times to stop your attacks on me
and even when you’re not talking to me, you’re talking about me. You
are obsessed with ME, not your deity, not obeying any so called
proclaimed “spirit” that you clearly do not possess unless you’re
claiming a demon.
If you need a confession, this is it: I do not like you. I have no
desire to share your dogma, speak to you or even know anything of you.
Look, I get it that your this needy person who thinks that if you call
people Chauvinist, that people might think this has anything with you
being a female but you know it doesn’t.. It’s about you showing a tiny
bit of restraint and not attacking me on a daily bases as you have
every time you post for the past YEAR.
Its probably is hard for you to understand, given that maybe you
thought I was a friend of yours while you went around behaving like
the witch that you are… the reality is that people have a right to
post without being attacked and that is why I sided with you when Carl
spam attacked you.
I can agree to not post in threads you start and I can agree to NEVER
mention you again and honestly if I never heard from you again, that
would greatly please me but I respect that you have the right to post,
unlike you. I respect that you have a freedom of speech, JUST LIKE I
DO.
You do not have to agree with me but I do ask that you let me be.
I realize that this is probably your idea of a cry for help.. I
cannot give it to you.. seek professional help or get somebody else
that is willing to speak with you to get help you so badly need.
I realize that you are jealous of the fact that nobody listens to you
are cares about you… that Ike tells you what a witch you are… What
makes you think I disagree or agree with him? Why are you trying to
associate us? Because you are jealous, which really is a sad site
because…
We don’t agree on dogma, we can’t communicate like civil people, why
not just do one simple thing and end this stupid harassment NOW
instead of ten years from now or whenever enough people complain?
Is it that hard for you to just leave me alone? Are you so possessed
by evil spirits that you can’t simply follow those teachings you swear
you follow instead of just falsely accusing every person you talk to
on a daily bases?
As to my speaking on the dogma of Christianity, I do not attack
individuals, I speak of an entire belief system and this is my right
to do so.
You on the other hand have made this VERY PERSONAL and so, I see it as
completely different. If you want to speak about how evil “Messianic”
faith is.. be my guest.. have at it. I know that the truth prevails
and I have no fear of anything you have to say about my system of
beliefs.
Your primary problem is that you still insist on being identified as a
Christian because you feel a need to conform to that belief system in
some way or form but the reality is that Christians believe Apostle
Paul and so, you are in denial of what you are by Christian standards,
a heretic.
Now, since I am Messianic, this does not bother me in the slightest.
It doesn’t bother me to be labeled “anti Christ” either because I know
the truth… I honor my Messiah’s teachings by doing my best to do what
is right and I don’t just pick and choose which of the scriptures I
keep, I keep them all that speak according to the Torah of My ELOHIM
YAHWEH EL SHADDAI.
I get it that you pretend to reject Paul and you also reject Moses
even though you deny this fact! You deny the name of YAHWEH every
chance you get… I can live with that.. I spoke my peace, I’m done with
you and no more communication between us is ever needed, wanted or
desired in any way shape or form.
I don’t want you to apologize, I don’t want your forgiveness, I DON’T
NEED IT. You can carry your hatred with you until you rot in your
grave or… you can let it go, it’s all your choice.. everything is your
Linda Lee
>
Tch, tch, tch... having another "bad day", Snowjob?
You reveal yourself with your friendship with your God-hating, wife-
beating, profane, pretend-believer friend; you're two of a kind.
You have no concept whatsoever about the contents or intent of the
Scriptures and should not be attempting to teach your confused babble
to others. But as long as you do, you can expect opposition to your
confusion.
The Messiah would not have have warned of ANTICHRISTS (like yourself)
if we were not to be aware of them and to make others aware of them.
And the Messiah would not have taught the apostles how to discern
CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL (like yourself) from the children of God if we
were not to discern between the two, and you reveal yourself as a
child of the evil one with your constant lies about God, the Messiah,
yourself, and others. I know you have seen the Hebrew Scriptures
relating to God's intentions to be incarnate as the Saviour; you
ignore them simply because you have been totally spiritually blinded
as you are a child of the Devil.
It's really enjoyable to watch your desperate attempts to coerce
others to allow you to post your antichrist message unhindered --
especially when you direct it at me, as I see right through your
manipulations.
Psa. 2:4 "He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall
have them in derision".
Your desperation leads you to employ your usual hypocrisy, Snowjob.
You try to convince them with your usual confused misinterpretation of
the Scriptures that God says you should be allowed to preach your
antichrist message unopposed.
When that doesn't work, you try to condemn Christians and subject them
to insolent derision for their beliefs.
But the Scriptures say in Jer. 20:8 that Jeremiah the prophet cried
out "VIOLENCE" [from a Hebrew word defined "WRONG" and translated
elsewhere as false] and "SPOIL" [in the root form of the word defined,
"INSOLENCE"] against the unrighteous who attempted to use condemnation
and derision of the Truth he had spoken against him.
So I cry against YOU and your ANTICHRIST false teachings -- "WRONG!!
FALSE!! INSOLENCE!!"
Jer. 20:8 For since I spake, I cried out, I CRIED VIOLENCE AND SPOIL;
BECAUSE THE WORD OF THE LORD WAS MADE A REPROACH UNTO ME, AND A
DERISION, DAILY.
Jer 20:9 Then I said, I will not make mention of him, nor speak any
more in his name. But his word was in mine heart as a burning fire
shut up in my bones, and I was weary with forbearing, and I could not
stay.
Jer 20:10 For I heard the defaming of many, fear on every side.
Report, say they, and we will report it. All my familiars watched for
my halting, saying, Peradventure he will be enticed, and we shall
prevail against him, and we shall take our revenge on him.
Jer 20:11 But the LORD is with me as a mighty terrible one: therefore
my persecutors shall stumble, and they shall not prevail: they shall
be greatly ashamed; for they shall not prosper: their everlasting
confusion shall never be forgotten.
Jer 20:12 But, O LORD of hosts, that triest the righteous, and seest
the reins and the heart, let me see thy vengeance on them: for unto
thee have I opened my cause.
You are such a HYPOCRITE. You must be absolutely CRAZY if you think
others cannot see your hypocrisy when you have sought to subvert other
peoples understandings by attacking many Christians by name and the
entire belief system of Christians and Christianity as a whole.
I think that you have gotten by your whole life lying to and
manipulating people, and it's worked very well for you because it was
all verbal, so they couldn't disprove you when you squirmed and
changed tactics, but here where you put your hypocrisy into writing,
it is thrown back in your face, and you find that very upsetting and
frustrating. LOL!!!
Linda Lee
Hi Aaron. I was wondering what became of you. How have you been?
How do you reconcile all that to the fact that the book of Acts
reported the Gentile followers only have to do the following:
Act 15:13 And after they had held their peace, James answered,
saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
Act 15:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the
Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
Act 15:15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is
written,
Act 15:16 After this I will return, and will build again the
tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the
ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
Act 15:17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all
the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth
all these things.
Act 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the
world.
Act 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which
from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from
pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled,
and from blood.
Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach
him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
...
Act 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay
upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
Act 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from
blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if
ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well, Fare ye well.
Also:
Act 21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and
concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep
themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from
strangled, and from fornication.
You might like to know that Snowjob's buddy Rod is putting on a show
and is not interested in the Scriptures:
Here Rod admits his professing belief in God has been only a “pretend
interest”:
I wrote:
> The posters in ACC were right; you're simply a psychopath,
> a God-hater who likes to pretend periodically he's considering
> become either a Christian or a follower of YHWH.
Rod admits, “Even my pretend interest has faded after seeing more of
your "Bible".”- 11/25/09 - from http://groups.google.com/group/alt.bible.prophecy/msg/e8048a119483aec9
I wrote to Snowjob concerning Rod:
> LOL. Looks like you lost a follower of YHVH; he didn't last long. Your
> evil buddy doesn't even believe in YHVH/YHWH
And Rod aka “Psychotic Sewer Imp” replied he believes God exists, but
that God is psychotic:
“You foolish, lying pile of baboon excrement! The heck I don't believe
in him, in fact I consider the god and some of his followers described
in psalms 2:11 and 2:12 as psychotics, and very real threats to human
life.” - 11/24/09 - from http://groups.google.com/group/alt.bible.prophecy/msg/f3da33658de8934f
After quoting Ps. 2:1-12, Rod says, “It pretty much means, serve me or
I'll kill you. As I said, [God is] a PSYCHOPATH......” - 11/25/09 from
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.bible.prophecy/msg/801f3de34576a250
Rod: "I've finally come to the conclusion based on the old testament
that Christianity is a fraud, as are it's followers." - 11/20/09 -
from http://groups.google.com/group/alt.messianic/msg/ecba32f6ad4368c4
Here Rod says God is psychotic:
“Form [From] what I've read today, I heard and SAW the true voice of
your shepherd in psalm 2:11 and 2:12. it was the voice of a murdering,
evil tempered psychotic” – 11/23/09 -
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.bible.prophecy/msg/d8da772584d6195e
As you might have gathered, Rod judges God and takes offense at God
judging us, so he is offended at the verses in Ps. 2:11-12, two most
beautiful verses:
Psa 2:11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
Psa 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way,
when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put
their trust in him.
Linda Lee
> Well, at least I responded in good faith. And in a posting of the next day,
> "Vince" told me: "And i would like to apologize for my near-unrestrained
> fury i directed toward you out of seemingly nowhere yesterday." I accepted
> this. Nuff said.
>
>
> news:d6906bdf-cce6-4024...@t19g2000vbc.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 15, 2:39 pm, "John Gardner" <gardner1...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> > Sorry, Vince, I missed one of your nasties that probably deserves a
> > response.
>
> You're awfully sarcastic and condemningly judgmental to keep accusing
> others of being nasty, aren't you, hypocrite?
How do you see you "responded in good faith" when you're still
mentioning his "nasties" after he's apologized and you claim you
accepted his apology? And then you post the following highly critical
and insulting response after that; sounds like you're holding a bit of
a grudge, and doesn't sound like you really accepted his apology.
Snow
John Gardner
a HolyDay Tree! I'm not in political office. I'm not even an American! If
you have the "No Xmas Tree Blues", call up Mr. Obama. Or your Mayor or
somebody.
Did you even read Aaron's posting? If so, you know that the
Scandinavian/Germanic tribes' "Yule" came WAY before the "Christianizing"
of Europe. The "Christians" STOLE the Yuletide thing! (Like they stole the
Roman's Saturnalia party -- and the crazy gift-giving - and the
partying...). The pagans had a definite Reason for The Season - and it
warn't no Jesus. Renaming "Christmastime" as "Yuletide", as you fear, would
at least be honest...
To say, as you say, "Jesus is the Reason for the Season" makes about as much
sense as saying "Jesus is the Reason for Sunday". You can worship the Father
in Jesus' Name on December 25. Lots do. You can worship the Father in Jesus'
Name on Sunday. Lots do. You can also worship your Heavenly Father through
Yeshua the Messiah on December 26, and/or on any given Saturday. Lots do.
Yeshua is the Truth, the Way to the Father, and the Life. That would be
24/7, 365 days a year. In North America, we have freedom of religion thru
the year, 'round the clock. Praise God for that!
You say my false religion -- whatever you think that might be! -- "does
nothing to win souls". How many have you won over the years by putting up
Christmas trees? How many souls have been saved by putting up creches on
courthouse lawns & the like? Where did the Bible bless the general run of
"Christmas" festivities, by the way? The Gospel of St. Nick, perhaps? Or
maybe the book of Crosby, chapter Bing? Or the Rudolph verses in the Book of
Reindeer?
My advice, which you won't heed, is, If you want to party with God, do it on
the times and festivals He has identified and blessed. If you are so pious
that you need to party with God at other times, maybe take some of your zeal
and help the poor, the homeless, the desperate. Yeshua calls for this far,
far more than for another $400 billion to be spent by affluent people on
useless gifts for other affluent people. The merchants might not like this,
but Yeshua had a thing or two to say about merchants doing business in the
wrong ways and places. Shalom.
John.
>
"vince garcia" <vggar...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:4B2837...@ix.netcom.com...
Linda Lee
> Linda Lee wrote:
>
> > On Dec 14, 8:05 pm, vince garcia <vggarci...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> > > That is the heresy pervading Messianic Judaism, and what defines much of
> > > it--but certainly not all of it--as a heretical movement to be avoided
> > > and denounced from the pulpit.
>
> > > copyright by Vince Garcia
>
> > You're writing a book on Messianics now, Vince?
>
> no, no. These were just some notes from something else that I put into a
> post form. I have, though, spoken to Matt Slick, a good apologist who
> runs carm.org, about writing a page denouncing the heresies of the
> messianic movement. We may tackle that at some point.
>
> That's great that
>
> > you're writing on the Scriptures.
>
> > But you should be careful about being so adamant about everyone's
> > motives, claiming you can lump together the motives of everyone into
> > one bunch. When you use "all" and "always", it if most often in error,
> > and many will notice it is wrong.
>
> You are right; I am being broad brush. But as I have told rob, I have
> been into the messianic movement since the early 90s. That's almost 20
> years now. From then til now, virtually the only messianics I have had
> contact with have been those repeating the same hersies outlined in my
> article.
I guess I don't know much about them; I was curious and contacted some
through the Internet a couple of years ago and lost interest when they
told me most believe in Paul.
>
> THEIRS seems to be the voice that comes to the fore in speaking for the
> messianic movement, so I am left basically NEEDED to broad brush,
> because the 'balanced' messianics are so hard to find that they seem to
> be having no impact on the messiainc movement, which is rife with
> damnable heresy.
>
> Rob says they're actually the majority, though, so perhaps THOSE sorts
> of messianics are simply hidden in acceptable Christian denominations.
>
> Well...the problem is not coming from them; it's coming from the Aarons,
> the Sams, the johns, and other messianics better, worse, or the same,
> who likewise deny major essentials of the chrisian gospel, while
> heralding themselves as the REAL Christians.
>
> That sound like the sort of thing you get with EVERY cult? Of course.
> That's because those people ARE cultists
>
>
>
> > I don't call myself a Messianic. I call myself a Christian because
> > that is a follower of Christ, and the Messiah did not say anywhere
> > that anyone other than himself must be accepted to obtain eternal
> > life.
>
> I know and respect that. You just as wrong as snow in some things you
> believe,
Paul; the only thing Snowjob has right, except for his going overboard
by claiming Lucifer is a reference to Paul, but then he rejects the
reality of Hell as well, so the Devil is the next to go...
> but at least you understand and accept the need to beloieve in
> the full Godhood of Christ. And that has the potential of opening your
> heart to other truths you have rejected.
That's funny because I've had other Christians assume I'd come around
to 'believing' in Paul when it happened the other way around; I was
raised with the teaching that Paul was a valid apostle, and believed
it, but decided that was an error a long time ago, about 15 years ago,
and I have just have not found any evidence in his favor other than
his own claims and what his traveling companion Luke reports that he's
heard from Paul in the book of Acts.
>
> But the messianic who can't even believe in the deity of Christ has
> rejected so much of the real gospel, he is basically in the same boat of
> the judaisers, and headed for the same dmnation.
>
Perhaps I'm wrong, but I got the impression Aaron believed the Son of
God was God as the Saviour.
> Don't forget--Paul's messianic opposers fully believed Jesus was the
> messiah
What scripture are you referring to here?
> just as adam, john or sam do.
Speaking of that, have you ever noticed that Paul never identifies the
Messiah AS THE Messiah (only as an anointed one, i.e. Christ, and many
were 'anointed' as kings, priests, etc.) whereas the true apostles and
Christ said outright he was The Messiah that was prophesied to come
and the Christ:
Joh 4:25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messiah cometh, which
is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
Joh 4:26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.
Joh 1:40 One of the two which heard John speak [saying Behold, the
Lamb of God], and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother.
Joh 1:41 He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him,
We have found the Messiah, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.
Joh 1:42 And he brought him to Jesus.
>
> But they were dead wrong in their core salvation theology, and they
> wound up eternally lost, while oppoising the true gospel along the way.
>
> (Now if you deny paul, you probably feel the opposite of this, but i am
> speaking from an orthodox Christian viewpoint)
I don't know exactly what you're referring to. What's the scripture
you think indicates this?
>
>
>
> > I DO use the Hebrew name of the Messiah in order to be more accurate
> > and to show respect, but I have had prayers answered in an immediate
> > miraculous way using the name "Jesus" years ago when I knew no other
> > name for Christ. (I also had a miracle occur after praying to
> > Yahashua`. Although I have not had occasion to pray for deliverance in
> > the Aramaic/Hebrew name of Yeshua`, I would think this name would also
> > gain a response.)
>
> It's the person, not the name, that is critical. But it;s how you DEFINE
> the person that determines whether you have the RIGHT person. As I
> noted, virtually all of the messianics I have known, tout the name
> yeshua as a repudiation of JESUS and what they see is false gentile
> christianity.
I have had one messianic poster here e-mail me about the name of
Yeshua, saying they know it is not his original Hebrew name, but it is
a "favorite name" of Messianics. I don't understand that attitude, why
they don't really care to use what they know to be his real name. It
is disrespectful to reject his real name.
>
> That's the problem
>
> > This leads me to believe the Messiah knows what
> > names he is called in different languages and does respond to those
> > names. But I also believe it is disrespectful not to use his real name
> > when that name becomes known to us.
>
> > Almost all Messianic groups accept Paul as a valid apostle just like
> > almost all Christian groups do.
>
> Most do. But as you can see for yourself, they pervert his words and
> teachings just like Gal 5 refers to, speaking of people claiming paul
> actually approved of circumcision and torah observance, and he makes the
> point that if he taught the very stuff he was rebuking the judaisers
> for, the offence of the cross would cease to these people. He then goes
> on to wish they would castrate themselves
>
> And that's true--the judaisers of acts 15 would have had no issue if
> paul approved of torah observance (which also requires circumcision)
Oh, you're referring to:
Act 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out
from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying,
Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such
commandment:
But "the law" doesn't mean the Ten Commandments; that was what the
Messiah taught; obey the commandments and follow him (Matt. 19:16-21,
Rev. 14:12-13, John 14:21, 1 John 2:3-4, etc.).
>
> But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed,
> saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, --and to command them to
> keep the law of Moses--
>
> It's not just an operation they're talking about as james affirms again
> in acts 21:
But James is telling Paul to do this thing too so the ones accusing
him of preaching against the law will know that he follows the law
("Do therefore this...").
Don't you see there's a problem with Paul not acting harmless as a
dove as the Messiah instructed the apostles to be, and also there's a
huge problem that his epistles are all "hard to be understood"?
Well of course if you love your neighbor you won't want to take his
wife, or steal his goods, or murder him, all these admonitions are in
the Ten Commandments.
>
> No disagreement.
>
> the problem is to misunderstand what 'keeping the comamndments'
> means--and the cults universally misunderstand this to mean: "Keep a
> bunch of biblical comamnds of the old testament, along with the
> ordinances of... the watchtower society...the prophet joseph
> smith...David Koresh...the teaching magisterium of the church...the
> council of elders...and so on.
>
> That's where the heresy comes in, and that's why paul says:
>
> WHERE NO LAW IS, THERE IS NO TRANSGRESSION
>
> and THE STRENGTH OF SIN IS THE LAW
>
> So for the record...NO, we're not "under" the 10 comamdnments the way
> the jews were "under" the so-called law of 613.
>
> The 10 comamdnments are fine. And it's fine to 'keep' them in the sense
> of moral guidelines. But the second you treat them as an existing
> specific covenant upon which righteousness before God is dependent, you
> have crossed into heresy because yoiu cannot keep even 10 to the degree
> a perfect God requires...
>
> Because the law worketh wrath: FOR WHERE NO LAW IS, THERE IS NO
> TRANSGRESSION
Yahashua` the Messiah does say in Mark 3:28-29, "Verily I say unto
you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies
wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: But he that shall blaspheme
against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of
eternal damnation:
And Mark explains in Mark 3:30, "Because they said, He [the Messiah]
hath an unclean spirit".
I do wonder though how this is reconciled to another teaching of the
Messiah:
1Jn 3:15 "Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that
no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."
If murder is among "All sins" that can be forgiven, why do murderers
not have eternal life, because they're still hateful enough to do
murder?
Linda Lee
>
> Examining the reality of what I have come to know about Linda Lee is
> that she rejects the entire bible. To her, the bible is something she
> can use to ATTACK OTHER PEOPLE but she has no need to actually put
> into practice the teachings of the Messiah herself. She does this
> because it is really her desire to spread her hatred. She hates men
> and exhibits many traits of a Lesbian, where all men are pigs and she
> is a victim of male aggression when in reality, she is the person that
> institutes aggression on a daily bases...
>
> If not over "the divinity of Christ" she has railed about "murdering
> false apostle Paul" for YEARS now attacking every person that dares to
> attempt to speak with her on the topic.
>
> She rejects Moses, she rejects Paul and she pays lip service to her
> supposed deity Jesus. She claims her deity preached the commandments
> but then later says that one can't keep the Ten Commandments and so it
> must be by "grace" that she is entitled to her claims. So while she
> rails against Paul, she closely adhere to his doctrine in practice and
> only disagrees with his "anti feminist" statements about woman
> learning in silence.
I didn't read your repetitious garbage, but I do notice here that you
lie about everything I believe, and falsely accuse me again of being a
"Lesbian". Don't you know, you compulsively-lying hypocrite that
people can tell what I believe by my own postings?
All you prove is that you're a compulsive liar, so keep it up,
Snowjob.
And since you say you like the tactic of accusing others of things
you're guilty of yourself, I guess it is really you who is the
hypocrite who has no real belief in the Scriptures (that was already
apparent, and is even more so now that you've joined with your God-
hating friend Rod) and is the HOMOSEXUAL.
Snowjob says to Rod, "You will find it is a common tactic to accuse
other people of the very thing you are guilty of... Excellent
thoughts." - http://groups.google.com/group/alt.bible/msg/0adfc17f981beec2
Linda Lee
Well the WORD Christ-mas is certainly about Christ, but the rest of it
is just about Santa and everyone giving everyone as many presents as
they can afford. Most people don't even put up nativity scenes any
more or play religiously-themed songs like 'Silent Night'.
I'd certainly like to see it change and be more about Christ than
Santa Claus. The state it is in is rather disgusting; the only fun I
get out of it is watching the wee little kids play with their new
toys.
They think Christ may really have been born in September or October,
maybe we should all let Santa Claus have his day and celebrate
Christ's birth on a new day...
Linda Lee
> On Dec 16, 12:09 am, vince garcia <vggarci...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> > > > (You prob'ly don't like "Jah" either, though - 'cept when you sing
> > > > "Hallel-JAH".)
>
> > > Good post John. This is the type of thing I wish you would post on
> > > messianic.Yehoshua. It's a keeper and worth going over.
>
> > Really, snow? He appeals to PAUL to validate his theology. You say paul
> > is a false prophet.
>
> Worse still Vince, I say Paul is none other then Lucifer of Isaiah 14,
> the messenger of the gentiles.
>
> > Are you two really simpatico??? Don't you two believe totally different
> > things?
>
> No, we both believe YAHWEH is the almighty and Yehoshua was his Son.
Since WHEN do you believe this? Today?
You've long denied the Messiah was the Son of God.
And just six weeks ago on 10/30/09 you said, "Christians refuse to
acknowledge that Messiah was only a prophet". - 10/30/09 -
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.messianic/msg/f15309b6dab272c6
Why are you a compulsive liar? Do you have an answer, because it
makes you look just innately evil.
Linda Lee
> Well, at least I responded in good faith. And in a posting of the next day,
> "Vince" told me: "And i would like to apologize for my near-unrestrained
> fury i directed toward you out of seemingly nowhere yesterday." I accepted
> this. Nuff said.
>
>
> news:d6906bdf-cce6-4024...@t19g2000vbc.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 15, 2:39 pm, "John Gardner" <gardner1...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> > Sorry, Vince, I missed one of your nasties that probably deserves a
> > response.
>
> You're awfully sarcastic and condemningly judgmental to keep accusing
> others of being nasty, aren't you, hypocrite?
Snowjob and Rod are calling me a "Lesbian" and a "bitch" in this
thread, so since you've taken it upon yourself to criticize me for my
attitude towards Snowjob (whose even harsher words in the past make
him deserving of it), where is your criticism of them? Or are you a
hypocrite who attempts to apply double standards?
Snow
> On Dec 15, 8:43 am, Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 16, 12:09 am, vince garcia <vggarci...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > (You prob'ly don't like "Jah" either, though - 'cept when you sing
> > > > > "Hallel-JAH".)
>
> > > > Good post John. This is the type of thing I wish you would post on
> > > > messianic.Yehoshua. It's a keeper and worth going over.
>
> > > Really, snow? He appeals to PAUL to validate his theology. You say paul
> > > is a false prophet.
>
> > Worse still Vince, I say Paul is none other then Lucifer of Isaiah 14,
> > the messenger of the gentiles.
>
> > > Are you two really simpatico??? Don't you two believe totally different
> > > things?
>
> > No, we both believe YAHWEH is the almighty and Yehoshua was his Son.
>
> Since WHEN do you believe this? Today?
>
> You've long denied the Messiah was the Son of God.
Psa 82:6 I, I said, “You are elohim, And ALL of you are sons of the
Most High.
> And just six weeks ago on 10/30/09 you said, "Christians refuse to
> acknowledge that Messiah was only a prophet". - 10/30/09 -http://groups.google.com/group/alt.messianic/msg/f15309b6dab272c6
>
> Why are you a compulsive liar? Do you have an answer, because it
> makes you look just innately evil.
I can’t read your post Linda, they make people dumber for having even
Examining the reality of what I have come to know about Linda Lee is
vince garcia
>
> Whoa there, hoss! I ain't takin away yer ChristMass Tree. I ain't sellin ya
> a HolyDay Tree! I'm not in political office. I'm not even an American! If
> you have the "No Xmas Tree Blues", call up Mr. Obama. Or your Mayor or
> somebody.
>
> Did you even read Aaron's posting? If so, you know that the
> Scandinavian/Germanic tribes' "Yule" came WAY before the "Christianizing"
> of Europe. The "Christians" STOLE the Yuletide thing! (Like they stole the
> Roman's Saturnalia party -- and the crazy gift-giving - and the
> partying...). The pagans had a definite Reason for The Season - and it
> warn't no Jesus. Renaming "Christmastime" as "Yuletide", as you fear, would
> at least be honest...
To be honest, these celebrations weren't "stolen"; as apologists like
hank hannegraaf have pointed out, they were started as counter festivals
to pagan festivals.
Example: say the gay community chose august 1 as GAY PRIDE DAY, and some
Christians ran a counter EXALT JESUS DAY. 500 years lateer, some people
would be saying "the chistians stole a gay pride day, and that's the
foundation for the so-called 'exalt jesus day'"
However, it matters not either way. No one is celebrating easter to
exalt Ostara, or christmas to honor Bacchus. We celebrate them to exalt
Jesus Christ. Satan and his servants know that, and they fight tooth and
nail to attack the very pagan festivals you seem to think they WANT us
to be a part of.
>
> To say, as you say, "Jesus is the Reason for the Season" makes about as much
> sense as saying "Jesus is the Reason for Sunday".
Are you making the point that you are "better" than those who worship
jesus on sunday?
Just give me a yes or no.
You can worship the Father
> in Jesus' Name on December 25. Lots do. You can worship the Father in Jesus'
> Name on Sunday. Lots do. You can also worship your Heavenly Father through
> Yeshua the Messiah on December 26, and/or on any given Saturday. Lots do.
>
> Yeshua is the Truth, the Way to the Father, and the Life. That would be
> 24/7, 365 days a year. In North America, we have freedom of religion thru
> the year, 'round the clock. Praise God for that!
>
> You say my false religion -- whatever you think that might be! -- "does
> nothing to win souls". How many have you won over the years by putting up
> Christmas trees?
Well, let me answer it this way: It is Christians from the very churches
you dub as pagan--the baptists, fundamentalists, pentecostals,
evangelicals, and others who celebrate Christmas and Easter, who are
putting their lives on the line in the slums of india, the jungles of
south america, the warrens of africa, the tenements of china, and in
every other shit hole on earth to present the TRUE gospel, while
messianics sit on their fat asses in their comfortable living rooms,
lighting sabbath candles, saying their insipid sabbath prayers,
pontificating about how delightful the Law is, and how they're the REAL
Christians in comparison to we sunday-observers.
Ashamed yet? You should be!
vince garcia
>
> Well, you sound less furious this time out, I'll give you that, But you say
> at the end of your post: "When I hear messianic doctrine such as you
> espouse, I simply explode in rage over the lie I know it is, based not on my
> opinion, but on scripture". So, either you can help yourself but don't want
> to - in which case, why apologize? -- or you can't help yourself -- you have
> something like spiritual Tourette's syndrome -- so you just need
> accommodation for your disability & no apology is needed.
I am autistic old fart in the last days of life, and when a subject
comes up that pushes my buttons, I have a hair-trigger temper that is
difficult to control.
My hatred for messianic heresies is an absolute 10, and it's like
flipping a switch when i run into it. In one respect, it might be better
for me to avoid being around it altogether, but we're still called to
stand against error, so I have no choice but to be here and denounce it,
and sometimes people who don't deserve it run afoul of my whacked
emotions, for which i am sorry.
>
> I don't know what false gospel you were in, or what group you fellowship
> with now. Were you a JW? It's not my business, really.
My background is all over the place: Catholicism, spiritualism,
evangelical Christianity, and messianic judaism.
I consider myself a garden variety evangelical
>
> Sure, there are differences between natural Jewish & Gentile believers. You
> mentioned circumcision. I don't know a single messianic who's brandishing a
> brit milah knife.
To be consistent, you should. If you really believe the Law is binding,
circumcision is required, and called an everlasting covenant.
This is especially so if you believe the lie that that the gentiles were
indoctrinated into torah observance, since they are required to be
circumcised to keep the passover and go to the mandated festivals at the
temple.
Only if--as paul taches--the covenant of the law is fulfilled and passed
away can you absolve gentiles from having to be circumcised, because one
is either required to keep the Law, or not. He may not pick and choose,
keep some and omit others.
"Cursed be he that confirmeth not ALL the words of this Law, to do them"
"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one
tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."
That includes circumcision
�Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger , uncircumcised in heart, nor
uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger
that is among the children of Israel� Ez. 44:9.
vince garcia
respond if you think she's just goading you?
Snow
> Why the heck don't you just fillfile her if she so irritates you? Why
> respond if you think she's just goading you?
Thank you Vince for being a voice of reason. You know.. I have a lot
of respect for those questions and your absolutely right but look at
it this way... Every time that I put up a post, since I do it though
the net, if I kill file her, my threads disappear. I would hope that
their are enough peace minded people in these NG's that say.. Hey..
Linda.. Just stop harassing him.. It's been over a year now that she
has behaved in this fashion and I honestly believe.. and this is from
the core of my being that Linda drives more people from faith then all
of our petty discordances.
You are a person passionate about your faith and I respect that you
have your vision of things and I have mine.. you goad me but not
because you want to call me evil or satan.. but because you
passionately disagree. We are very much the same in that respect and
so, sooner or later, we simply have to agree that we will not see
things eye to eye.
I do not think that you are a person that would dwell on attacking a
single person for over a year... you hopefully have better things to
do in your life.
When people log on and see the type of hate filled drivel this person
puts into the universe everyday, it's an example to them that we are
all insane petty morons that attack each other day in and day out...
How is that serving Yehoshua??? The examples we set are being
watched... do you want to see you "Lord" behaving like Linda? I
certainly wouldn't.
Mat 12:36 “And I say to you that for every idle word men speak, they
shall give an account of it in the day of judgment.
I must speak up on what I see is wrong.. and attacking people
everyday, not matter who it is, is just WRONG. Yehoshua came to teach
us the way of peace and it's about time some people actually start to
practice what they preach instead of using scriptures to simply
condemn everybody that doesn't agree with them.
That's how I feel about it.. and I respect you may feel differently.
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
Respond directly:
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/messianic_Yehoshua/
http://www.isr-messianic.org/ <- download the scriptures free
or
http://messianicyehoshua.googlegroups.com/web/RNKJV.zip <--free
download of the Restored Names King James Version
Life is a gift, and it offers us the privilege, opportunity, and
responsibility to give something back by becoming more.
Tony Robbins
Jude Alexander
"Snow" <snowp...@eck.net.au> wrote in message
news:2c5013ee-5f18-4e2a...@z4g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
She's one of the most hostile people I've seen in ACC.
Ed Form
> To be honest, these celebrations weren't "stolen"; as apologists like
> hank hannegraaf have pointed out, they were started as counter
> festivals to pagan festivals.
Nonsense, Vince. The festivals were deliberately and cynically designed by
corrupt churchmen to convince pagans to join the church by leaving them
free to hold their own festivals with an over-paint of christian ideas.
Ed Form
vince garcia
Well, ed--there are educated apologists who disagree with you, and will
cite their own evidence to prove it. I don't care either way, so I won't
claim to be an expert on it, and so won't try to argue the point. But I
will simply reiterate that there is a counter argument to your assertion
here made by reputable theologians.
And as i said, no one is celebrating Christmas to honor bacchus, and the
liberal democratic enemies of the gospel know precisely those holidays
exalt Christ, and so they are doing all they can to get them out of the
schools, the city halls, and the society.
They don't really sweat things like hanukkah too much (though they gripe
a little), because they aren't really threatened by judaism--they're
threatened by Christianity and what IT represents
That says it all.
Linda Lee
>
<snip Snowjob's pathetic attempt to disguise the fact that he can't
support his antichrist garbage>
> Now, since I am Messianic,
Baloney. You aren't a messianic; your dogma has no Messiah in it; and
you LIED AGAIN when you said you believe "Yehoshua is the Son of God":
Snowjob says: "Christians refuse to acknowledge that Messiah was only
a prophet". - 10/30/09 - http://groups.google.com/group/alt.messianic/msg/f15309b6dab272c6
I wonder how you live with yourself lying as much as you do.
> Examining the reality of what I have come to know about Linda Lee is
> that she rejects the entire bible. To her, the bible is something she
> can use to ATTACK OTHER PEOPLE but she has no need to actually put
> into practice the teachings of the Messiah herself. She does this
> because it is really her desire to spread her hatred. She hates men
> and exhibits many traits of a Lesbian, where all men are pigs and she
> is a victim of male aggression when in reality, she is the person that
> institutes aggression on a daily bases...
>
> If not over "the divinity of Christ" she has railed about "murdering
> false apostle Paul" for YEARS now attacking every person that dares to
> attempt to speak with her on the topic.
>
> She rejects Moses, she rejects Paul and she pays lip service to her
> supposed deity Jesus. She claims her deity preached the commandments
> but then later says that one can't keep the Ten Commandments and so it
> must be by "grace" that she is entitled to her claims. So while she
> rails against Paul, she closely adhere to his doctrine in practice and
> only disagrees with his "anti feminist" statements about woman
> learning in silence.
I didn't read your repetitious garbage, but I do notice here that you
lie again about everything I believe, and falsely accuse me again of
being a
"Lesbian". Don't you know, you compulsively-lying hypocrite that
people can tell what I believe by my own postings?
All you prove is that you're a COMPULSIVE LIAR, so keep it up,
Snowjob.
And since you say you like the tactic of accusing others of things
you're guilty of yourself, I guess it is really YOU who is the
hypocrite who has no real belief in the Scriptures (that was already
apparent, and is even more so now that you've joined with your God-
hating friend Rod) and it is YOU who is the HOMOSEXUAL.
Snowjob says to Rod, "You will find it is a common tactic to accuse
other people of the very thing you are guilty of... Excellent
thoughts." - http://groups.google.com/group/alt.bible/msg/0adfc17f981beec2
And if you want a spam-war Homo-Snowjob, here's a little something I
wrote concerning you a couple of months ago when you and your God-
hating, wife-beating, male chauvinist pig buddy Rod started your
attack of profanity a few months ago. The difference is, your post is
full of lies, and everything I've said about your sorry self is the
truth.
You're slipping, antichrist Snowjob. "JEZEBEL" is so much nicer than
your usual "WHORE" and
"MURDERER", the names you usually call me.
You lie about what I believe and like the hypocritical little satan
that you are, accuse Christians daily, whining about others' treatment
of you while you mistreat them being your favorite past-time, calling
them names and judging them that they are judgmental of others. Then
you put on your manipulative halo and repeatedly lie that you are
tolerant of others' views, yet you began repeatedly calling me “Whore”
when I refused to stop using the KJV Bible and the words God and Holy
and Lord, as you had insisted I do, and calling me “Murderer” when you
found out I had voted for President Obama.
So Snowjob, continue to act the antichrist and to continue to call me
"Whore", “murderer”, “Jezebel witch”, and "Lesbian" all you like; I
still will not renounce Christ as God incarnate as you insist I do,
and I will continue to use the KJV Bible and the words God, LORD, and
Holy regardless of your repeated demands I stop. As always, YOU LIE
about what I believe about Christ and the Scriptures and everything
else connected with God.
You definitely have mental problems evidenced by your compulsive
lying. The only things you have in common with your buddies is that
you're children of the Devil, control-freak male chauvinists, liars,
and hypocrites who don't really give a damn about the Scriptures you
claim to preach.
Snow
> antichrist and to continue to call me
> "Whore", “murderer”, “Jezebel witch”, and "Lesbian" all you like; I
> still will not renounce Christ as God incarnate as you insist I do,
Linda, I don't care what you do or what you believe.. I simply want
you to stop posting to and about me and I will do the same when you
agree to that... I have zero desire to ever call you, know you or
speak of you once you agree to stop your obsessional with me.
> mental problems evidenced compulsive
> lying.
> you're children of the Devil, control-freak male chauvinists, liars,
> and hypocrites damn
Examining the reality of what I have come to know about Linda Lee is
Linda Lee
>
>
> She's one of the most hostile people I've seen in ACC.
You're just mad I pointed out your statements about Judaism were
"bigotry" the other day. If it makes you feel any better, I suppose I
am bigoted about Islam and truly believe it is as evil as you view
Judaism.
I suppose you're like the hypocrite MCP John Gardner and think 'the
little woma'n should 'guard my tongue' while Snowjob and his God-
hating buddy Rod call me every profane name in the book and post lies
about me? LOL! Not gonna happen.
At least what I say about the profanity-spewing, lying, hypocritical,
falsely accusing, wholly ignorant, antichrist Snowjob is true; he lies
with every stroke of the keys, changing his "beliefs" every couple of
weeks depending on whom he is trying to manipulate/impress; then he
goes into an impotent fury when his old contradictory posts are
posted.
Snow
> On Dec 16, 9:15 am, "Jude Alexander" <whate...@thispoint.why> wrote:
>
>
>
> > She's one of the most hostile people I've seen in ACC.
>
> You're just mad
No Linda.. LISTEN to people.. you have anger and hostility issues.
Everytime you post on these NG's.. you are attacking somebody over
something.. I have never seen you post in any other manner ...
NEVER.. You attack people over apostle Paul or whatever issue you
think you have to shove down peoples throats...
Get it into your skull that you are an angry hateful person and you
need to check yourself. You NEVER give praise unless of course it's
somebody that you are trying to woo because they excuse your hatred...
I'm not asking you to change your point of view Linda because I don't
give two cents what you believe.. I do not want to know you and I want
nothing to do with you.. so stop posting to me and stop talking about
me and start looking at yourself.
Linda Lee
> On Dec 17, 12:01 am, vince garcia <vggarci...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> > Why the heck don't you just fillfile her if she so irritates you? Why
> > respond if you think she's just goading you?
Because he's as liar as he is the one doing the goading, as he's about
to prove:
>
> Thank you Vince for being a voice of reason. You know.. I have a lot
> of respect for those questions and your absolutely right but look at
> it this way... Every time that I put up a post, since I do it though
> the net, if I kill file her, my threads disappear.
Once again Snowjob proves that he is the one doing the "goading" and
proves what a lying hypocrite he is; he's just said he wants me to
leave him alone, now he claims he wants me to post to him to keep his
threads active.
You are such a deluded child of the Devil that you don't even care
that you look like a liar, do you Snowjob? That is because you're
simply psychotic like your psychotic God-hating, wife-beating buddy
Rod.
And if your threads remain active, it is nothing to me, because they
just contain more of your contradictory statements and lies and show
you for the devil-child that you are.
> We are very much the same
Baloney; you're manipulating again.
You're basically a dishonest person and Vince is basically an honest
person; you're NOTHING alike.
And it is your dishonesty that makes you so despicable, but I don't
guess a compulsive liar like yourself will ever comprehend that.
> I must speak up on what I see is wrong.. and attacking people
> everyday, not matter who it is, is just WRONG.
I must also speak up on what I see is wrong. You're ALWAYS the
hypocrite, aren't you Snowjob, as you think attacking me every day,
goading me into responding to you is RIGHT when you've just said that
behavior is wrong no matter who you're dealing with. You act like the
Devil himself and then attribute your bad behavior to having 'had a
bad day'; you have lots of bad days.
Here Snowjob judges Christians and calls them "Nazis" while he
hypocritically complains they're judgmental:
Snowjob replies to singin4free's statement (“The proof is the risen
Christ, not the behavior of fallible humans.”) by saying, “Christians
always use this excuse to explain why they are Nazi's. You quote bible
passages but never, ever put the works into action. ...Christians are
judges, not doers. They quote the scriptures to attack people not put
it into practice” - 11/26/09 - from http://groups.google.com/group/alt.bible.prophecy/msg/23074919e8ee9938
Snowjob likely projects his own vices and claims Christians are
drunks, perverts addicted to porn, and involved in prostitution,
saying:
<quote>
"The “Christian” voice can dimly be heard Sunday morning during the
wee
hours after a long night drunken binges and we have the nerve to
berate the Taliban for telling their daughters to cover up and not
follow the western example.
Reality says, If Christians were not calling 1-900 sex numbers our
televisions wouldn’t be flooded with advertising because they would
make NO PROFIT. If Christians were not going to strip clubs, buying
prostitutes and yes, making pornography freely available under the
guise of “Free Speech”, telling our daughters that sex is a commodity
to be traded for a piece of paper, the industry would be gone but its
thriving in this economic downturn. These are the “American Values”
we are fighting for and I don’t think their worth it any more.
If CHRISTIANS started actually standing up for what is truly right,
we
wouldn’t have prostitutes walking down the back alleys of every major
city..." <end quote> - 12/7/09 - http://groups.google.com/group/alt.messianic/msg/8107636c51d3d17a
You're desperate, Snowjob. It really messes up your antichrist
'ministry' to have your hypocrisies and twisted interpretations of
the
Scriptures exposed, doesn't it? I doubt that it is even necessary to
point it out. Most people can see right away you're a hypocritical,
pompous, egomaniacal, holier-than-thou lying ignoramus child of the
Devil who doesn't know diddly about the Scriptures.
Snow
> > I must speak up on what I see is wrong.. and attacking people
> > everyday, not matter who it is, is just WRONG.
>
> I must also speak up on what I see is wrong. You're ALWAYS the
> hypocrite, aren't you Snowjob, as you think attacking me every day,
> goading me into responding to you is RIGHT when you've just said that
> behavior is wrong no matter who you're dealing with. You act like the
> Devil himself and then attribute your bad behavior to having 'had a
> bad day'; you have lots of bad days.
You are a angry hateful person. You give no esteem to your Messiah,
you disregard everything he taught and attack people on a daily
bases.. you attack everybody. You hate everybody and you are just
flat out wrong.
Turn the other cheek, leave them alone, love your enemies.. all
teachings that fall by the wayside with you.
Mat 15:14 “Leave them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And
if the blind leads the blind, both shall fall into a ditch.”
You think I'm blind.. fine Linda.. follow your deity and leave me
alone. I'm happy to never think of you ever again because I think you
are an evil hateful person.
>I
> still will not renounce Christ as God incarnate as you insist I do,
Linda, I don't care what you do or what you believe.. I simply want
you to stop posting to and about me and I will do the same when you
agree to that... I have zero desire to ever call you, know you or
speak of you once you agree to stop your obsessional with me.
I can’t read your post Linda, they make people dumber for having even
looked at them. You can read this the first time or the hundredth time
this gets spammed back at you Linda but this is it.. I’m done with
you.
Rev 22:11 “He who does wrong, let him do more wrong; he who is filthy,
let him be more filthy; he who is righteous, let him be more
righteous; he who is set-apart, let him be more set-apart.
Dear very SICK, DEMENTED STALKER JEZEBEL. Please feel free to end
this boring spam war at any time and agree to actually follow the
teachings of the Messiah...
What this means is that you go your way in peace and make your post..
I go my way and make my post and we have no need to ever speak to each
other ever again...
Mat 15:14 “Leave them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And
if the blind leads the blind, both shall fall into a ditch.”
John Gardner
At the risk of inflaming Jewish/Gentile sentiments (never far from the boil
around here) I would point out that the Jews of Yeshua/Yehoshua's time
didn't celebrate births at all. Ecc. 7:1. In contrast, the Gentiles,
including the Greeks (who borrowed from the Egyptians) and the Romans (who
borrowed from the Greeks) placed great importance on birth days for
astrological reasons.
It seems likely Yeshua was conceived around Hanukkah and born around
Sukkot -- and crucified at Passover & raised on the Day of First Fruits. Of
these crucial life events, the only one He asked us to "keep" was His Last
Supper.
We should celebrate not only the birth but the ministry, miracles, message,
death, resurrection and rulership of the Son of God YEAR ROUND. We could
maybe start by using some of the $400 billion we spend annually to Stimulate
the Economy for Jesus Sake to feed the hungry, clothe the cold, and pump
clean water to the sick people who die every year by the droves as we
endlessly gift one another. Amen?
John/Jochanan.
"Linda Lee" <lindag...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:4a3fdad3-df40-4780...@g25g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
Snow
> We should celebrate not only the birth but the ministry, miracles, message,
> death, resurrection and rulership of the Son of God YEAR ROUND. We could
> maybe start by using some of the $400 billion we spend annually to Stimulate
> the Economy for Jesus Sake to feed the hungry, clothe the cold, and pump
> clean water to the sick people who die every year by the droves as we
> endlessly gift one another. Amen?
>
> John/Jochanan.
“I don't oppose all wars. What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I
am opposed to is a rash war.”
Barack Obama
Why are we at war in Afghanistan and Iraq? Can anybody really tell me?
Eight years ago, we entered these countries under the excuse of
retaliatory for the 9/11 attacks but that was 2001 and this is almost
9 years later. Saddam Hussein is dead and gone; there are no weapons
of mass destruction and President Obama promised to end the war and
yet, here we are a year after he’s been elected and more troops are
being deployed.
“The surge troops have been deployed to Afghanistan by the end of
Summer 2010, the total number of US troops there will be around
98,000, the highest level yet. When President Obama took office, that
number was 32,000.”
Instead of ending war, he has double the number of armed soldiers and
will soon triple the number from Bush administration levels and we
have nobody asking, “WHY”?
“All war is based on deception.”
Sun Tzu
From the second Obama won the Presidency, the international media
stopped the daily body counts and broadcasting the war protesters and
stopped asking, “Why are we at war?” They no longer cared because the
propaganda against the Bush administration had put their Manchurian
candidate in office.
To be fair, I never understood from day one, why we went to war in the
first place and to be honest, I don’t care.
Knowing that just the “Defense” budget would feed, clothe, transport,
educate and house one sixth the entire world population makes me
scratch my head at the vast amounts of debt America is buried under to
support these travesties, no… crimes against humanity. I think if
we created trade opportunity instead of bombs, the world might think a
little better of us but the tragic reality of the real world is that
people like to lie to themselves and label human beings as statistics
so that they don’t have to think about the reality that their tax
dollars aren’t really helping the poor unless you consider killing
them a viable option.
We send troops instead of educational book to teach them a better way
of life. The last time I checked the only viable crop in Afghanistan
was opium, so maybe we should be looking at pharmaceutical companies
seeking to control drug production but are poppies really worth
killing for? In Iraq, any layman knows it’s about the oil but I
remember Obama spending a lot of his hype on new technology to remove
this dependency… We’ve had the technology to never use oil ever again
for a dozen years, affordable, reliable and cheap alternatives have
already obsoleted yesterdays economy and still we bail out car makers
and continue corrupt business schemes with a bankrupted economy… What
happened Obama to, “Yes, we can” that you’ve tied up all your
credibility in socialized health care instead of any real reforms???
Americans are reduced to social gossipers talking about how many woman
a golfer slept with instead taking any real steps to change the world…
why? Or if the insane “Octo” mom is going to have still more babies
even though she can’t take care of the bastards she already has being
supported by corporate sponsors. Because nobody is FOCUSED on
solutions to the problems when they are too busy being worried about
if they are going to have access to prescription drugs they don’t even
need.
Religious people don’t seem to give a damn about anything but there
precious dogma and we don’t see any of them stepping up and talking
about real world issues either.
The media continues to push out its defecation of never ending
violence and pointless soap operas and all people seem to care about
is nothing but themselves and if there poor low self esteem is being
insulted as if that matters.
Everything that we need is within reach and all we have to do is wake
up and realize that we can pull our troops out of foreign countries
and let them be… we can decentralize the electric grid and make self
sustaining homes that produce electricity using various methods… we
can take the government OUT of health care and the doctors will be
forced to provide affordable solutions of actually curing sickness
instead just pills that mask symptoms and make pharmaceutical
companies rich. Government isn’t the cure to health care, they are
the people that poison the well in the first place! The welfare
system makes our own government compete against its own working
population and the only people with health care are those on the
government payroll (including the military) and this should be
reversed.
If we can say we are fighting for anything, it’s to support the
corporate controlled media that also owns the military industrial
machine and we are fighting to support corruption, greed and seeking
world domination instead of world peace and that’s nothing worth
fighting for.
I shouldn’t be surprised that on the 20 boards I posted, “The campaign
against violence”, a single person of faith spoke up and he
supported violence.
Num 6:24 “Yahweh bless you and guard you;
Num 6:25 Yahweh make His face shine upon you, and show favour to you;
Num 6:26 Yahweh lift up His face upon you, and give you peace.” ’
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.
George Orwell
Respond directly:
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/messianic_Yehoshua/
Many a man's strength is in opposition, and when he faileth, he grows
out of use.
Francis Bacon
John Gardner
ChristMass trees! Then you went off on "baptists, fundamentalists,
pentecostals, evangelicals, and others ..who are
putting their lives on the line in the slums of india, the jungles of south
america, the warrens of africa, the tenements of china, and in
And they present the TRUE gospel HOW --by.planting Xmas trees in the slums,
tenements & s__ holes?
The TRUE gospel is that Yeshua HaMoshiach, son of David, came to rescue His
people and ALL people from sin and death. He died for our sins. He rose on
the third day. He reigns together with YHWH His Father. He will return soon
and execute judgment on the living and the resurrected. He will rule the
nations forever from New Jerusalem with the assistance of the Hebrew and
Christian saints.
I know no other gospel.
You ask: Are you making the point that you are "better" than those who
worship jesus on sunday?
Just give me a yes or no.
My answer is: NO.
John/Jochanan
__
"vince garcia" <vggar...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:4B28D6...@ix.netcom.com...
Jude Alexander
On Dec 16, 9:15 am, "Jude Alexander" <whate...@thispoint.why> wrote:
>
>
> She's one of the most hostile people I've seen in ACC.
You're just mad I pointed out your statements about Judaism were
"bigotry" the other day. If it makes you feel any better, I suppose I
am bigoted about Islam and truly believe it is as evil as you view
Judaism.
You're so incredibly blinded by your hostility. I don't think of Judaism as
evil. I think of it more as full of ancient ignorance and mental illness
(at times but not always). I don't hate Jewish people in the least. In
fact, I used to work with them and I had good relationship with all of them
except the Fundies which acted like a non-Jew was diseased and wouldn't even
answer me on the first day that I ran into one about what time it was.
I suppose you're like the hypocrite MCP John Gardner and think 'the
little woma'n should 'guard my tongue' while Snowjob and his God-
hating buddy Rod call me every profane name in the book and post lies
about me? LOL! Not gonna happen.
I'm not sure who John Garnder is. You see how absolutely you employ
"magical thinking" as you believe you know everything about a person you
disagree with and, OF COURSE, it's ALL negative. :)
At least what I say about the profanity-spewing, lying, hypocritical,
falsely accusing, wholly ignorant, antichrist Snowjob is true; he lies
with every stroke of the keys, changing his "beliefs" every couple of
weeks depending on whom he is trying to manipulate/impress; then he
goes into an impotent fury when his old contradictory posts are
posted.
I think you're way out of line. He doesn't lie. IF he believes something
that isn't true, it's called mistaken. At least have the decency to see
that just about everybody here thinks they are correct. They're not out to
deceive, even you. However, you have let your judgement be clouded, imo,
about Snow. I disagree with him hardily on some subjects but I don't think
of him as lowdown as you do because he isn't. There are much more
aggravating personalities here on ACC than Snow.
John Gardner
farts. I might be one, for all I know.
Just curious - why do Hebrew roots Christians irk you so? They're not out
seeking converts, doing car washes, putting up Singing Christmas Trees
(Hanukkah bushes maybe?) or jingling donation pots. They don't have
televangelists. They don't moderate debates between presidential candidates.
Most Messianics I know are deeply into charity (we nearly go broke monthly
for World Vision), but they don't seek publicity for it. Our little Torah
Study group is maybe between 20-40 people in a suburban area of about
100,000. Many of us also go to Sunday churches. All of us are hard-working,
and I suppose you'd say mainly politically conservative.
Obviously a burr got in your fur somehow, and I'm just wondering how? (Not
that it's my business).
John/Jochanan.
"vince garcia" <vggar...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:4B28D9...@ix.netcom.com...
Jude Alexander
Are you from Australia? Contact your ISP if you cannot killfile without
problems and get that sorted out.
When somebody throws out a rope, they're hoping someone will grab it and
tug. Sometimes, you grab that rope and go to town but sometimes you just
let it sit there. "They" go away eventually. :)
Linda Lee
> "Linda Lee" <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote in message
>
> news:427dacb0-50e3-4864...@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 16, 9:15 am, "Jude Alexander" <whate...@thispoint.why> wrote:
>
>
>
> > She's one of the most hostile people I've seen in ACC.
>
> You're just mad I pointed out your statements about Judaism were
> "bigotry" the other day. If it makes you feel any better, I suppose I
> am bigoted about Islam and truly believe it is as evil as you view
> Judaism.
>
> You're so incredibly blinded by your hostility. I don't think of Judaism as
> evil. I think of it more as full of ancient ignorance and mental illness
That is bigotry to say all those who profess belief in Judaism are
mentally ill.
> (at times but not always). I don't hate Jewish people in the least.
That's good; I don't hate any particular Muslims either, but I DO
think their religion is downright evil. I recognize that is bigotry,
yet I still believe it is evil at its core, and in particular believe
its denial the Messiah was the Messiah and Saviour and is "only a
prophet" (as Snowjob maintains) is the essence of evil.
> In
> fact, I used to work with them and I had good relationship with all of them
> except the Fundies which acted like a non-Jew was diseased and wouldn't even
> answer me on the first day that I ran into one about what time it was.
Then they were bigoted against non-Jews.
>
> I suppose you're like the hypocrite MCP John Gardner and think 'the
> little woma'n should 'guard my tongue' while Snowjob and his God-
> hating buddy Rod call me every profane name in the book and post lies
> about me? LOL! Not gonna happen.
>
> I'm not sure who John Garnder is. You see how absolutely you employ
> "magical thinking" as you believe you know everything about a person you
> disagree with and, OF COURSE, it's ALL negative. :)
I didn't say you knew him, I said I suppose you're being hypocritical
like him and believe I should hold my tongue while Snowjob spews such
profanity at me as "whore" and "Jezebel" along with more false
accusations I'm a "Lesbian" and a "murderer", since you've taken it
upon yourself to have an opinion on the matter.
IS that what you think I should do, or am I wrong???
Do I misunderstand that you want me to remain silent in the face of
Snowjob's onslaught that's been going on for over a year and a half
and into which last July he's invited his profane, God-hating, wife-
beating, buddy Rod (and yes, I can prove in his own words he hates God
and beats his wife)?
>
> At least what I say about the profanity-spewing, lying, hypocritical,
> falsely accusing, wholly ignorant, antichrist Snowjob is true; he lies
> with every stroke of the keys, changing his "beliefs" every couple of
> weeks depending on whom he is trying to manipulate/impress; then he
> goes into an impotent fury when his old contradictory posts are
> posted.
>
> I think you're way out of line. He doesn't lie.
BALONEY. You do not know what you're talking about. He has been
falsely calling me a "Lesbian" for months, and I ought to know whether
or not I am, and I AM NOT, and have no intentions of changing. He has
also labeled me a "murderer" simply because I voted for the President
of my choice; and I am not a murderer and have never had an abortion.
> IF he believes something
> that isn't true, it's called mistaken. At least have the decency to see
> that just about everybody here thinks they are correct. They're not out to
> deceive, even you. However, you have let your judgement be clouded, imo,
> about Snow. I disagree with him hardily on some subjects but I don't think
> of him as lowdown as you do because he isn't. There are much more
> aggravating personalities here on ACC than Snow.
If you would read his posts and see the deliberate lies, you might
change your mind. He changes position on his 'beliefs' depending upon
who he's directing his post.
Linda Lee
Do you choose not to see that he is just putting on a show when he
complains about me posting to him, and he says he doesn't really want
me to quit posting to him? He likes this war and thinks it makes his
topics popular... And by the way, he actually declared himself my
enemy and declared war on me around two years ago.
Here he lies and claims that if he killfiles MY POSTS, his threads
will disappear; I think we all know that is NOT TRUE:
From - http://groups.google.com/group/alt.messianic/msg/1bb3b91a9dc19db3
-
On Dec 17, 12:01 am, vince garcia <vggarci...@ix.netcom.com> wrote to
Snowjob:
> Why the heck don't you just fillfile her if she so irritates you? Why
> respond if you think she's just goading you?
..."Every time that I put up a post, since I do it though
the net, if I kill file her, my threads disappear."
"I would hope that
their are enough peace minded people in these NG's that say.. Hey..
Linda.. Just stop harassing him.. It's been over a year now that she
has behaved in this fashion and I honestly believe.. and this is from
the core of my being that Linda drives more people from faith then all
of our petty discordances."
Do you understand that he believes goading and attacking me with false
accusations I'm a non-believer, a lesbian, and a murders helps him?
It is his goal to goad Christians into arguing with him; he thinks
this promotes his antichrist message, his sole interest.
And it is his habit to accuse others of behavior he himself is doing
(just as he's accusing me of refusing to quit posting to him while he
posts to me as he pleases):
Snowjob says to Rod, "You will find it is a common tactic to accuse
other people of the very thing you are guilty of... Excellent
thoughts." -
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.bible/msg/0adfc17f981beec2
> On Dec 17, 12:01 am, vince garcia <vggarci...@ix.netcom.com> wrote [to Snowjob]:
vince garcia
>
> Who again, hoss! Steady! I asked you about saving souls by puttin up
> ChristMass trees! Then you went off on "baptists, fundamentalists,
> pentecostals, evangelicals, and others ..who are
> putting their lives on the line in the slums of india, the jungles of south
> america, the warrens of africa, the tenements of china, and in
> every other shit hole on earth to present the TRUE gospel".
>
> And they present the TRUE gospel HOW --by.planting Xmas trees in the slums,
> tenements & s__ holes?
No, not by planting xmas trees--by affirming and upholding the tenets of
the historic christian faith we have had for almost 2000 years. The
santa stuff is a worldly attempt to dillute the real message, but main
issue is that we uphold and celebrate easter and christmas to exalt
Christ, and satan knows that, which is why he attacks it from every
possible direction, rather than encouarging it is some sort of
deception.
So these christmas/easter celebrating-Christians--irrespective of xmas
trees, and such-- are the ones really serving God and proclaiming the
gospel, while messianics (not 100%, but the movement as a whole)
basically serve only their own bellies in the comfort of their nice warm
homes, and are never seen going out to the real mission fields, because
that would require self-sacrifice. And the REAL mission field isn't one
where you tout torah observance and try to get christians in normal
Western denominations to denounce them as pagan, and convert to
messianic judaism--it's facing the dangers and hardship of a Gudalajaran
slum, where you will find plenty of "normal" christian denominations at
work, but would be hard pressed to find one American Messianic toiling
with them for the REAL work of Christ.
That's my point.
But worse is that the messianics teach a different gospel, and have a
different Jesus than the one we have served for 2000 years. The
messianic gospel is one of converting gentiles to judaism, adding faith
in "yeshua" to it, and denouncing our christian movements as basically
pagan.
>
> The TRUE gospel is that Yeshua HaMoshiach, son of David, came to rescue His
> people and ALL people from sin and death. He died for our sins. He rose on
> the third day. He reigns together with YHWH His Father. He will return soon
> and execute judgment on the living and the resurrected. He will rule the
> nations forever from New Jerusalem with the assistance of the Hebrew and
> Christian saints.
>
> I know no other gospel.
That's great. And it SOUNDS good. But the basis on which you state those
facts--and the meaning that you put into them--is what is in question.
In the last few days it's been clear that you deny the deity of
Christ...that some books of the NT 'maybe' should not be in the canon
(you were going to get a book and study on this)...and you appear to
claim that the law is still in force, and God still calls on His people,
jew and gentile, to observe it.
Am i right on these issues?
Those points are the problem, because Messianics have a false gospel.
Even though your words were great, and I would agree with them so far as
they go, I believe you ultimately have the same false gospel many other
messianics have, for reasons I have been articulating, starting with
denying the deity of Christ, and seeking works like the Zohar to try and
define His nature using cabbalistic jewish terms and concepts.
That is a road ending in a false gospel of a false messiah. And IF it so
be that you believe God requires torah observance from believers, that
IS a false gospel of a false messiah, and not what the NT teaches, or
what real Christianity, despite its warts, is or was ever meant to be.
>
> You ask: Are you making the point that you are "better" than those who
> worship jesus on sunday?
>
> Just give me a yes or no.
>
> My answer is: NO.
good. Then you would agree that a sunday christian is no more or less
acceptable or approved of by God than a sabbatarian, and that the day
you worship is irrelevant, correct?
Linda Lee
> On Dec 17, 2:33 am, Linda Lee <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
>
> > On Dec 16, 9:15 am, "Jude Alexander" <whate...@thispoint.why> wrote:
>
> > > She's one of the most hostile people I've seen in ACC.
>
> > You're just mad
>
> No Linda.. LISTEN to people.. you have anger and hostility issues.
> Everytime you post on these NG's.. you are attacking somebody over
> something.. I have never seen you post in any other manner ...
You are simply a LIAR and false accuser, Snowjob. In the last three
years, I have responded that way to attacks from you and your two MCP
buddies; IKE (whom you lauded as a friend for his false attacks on me
like your own attacks, calling me witch and Jezebel, but whom you
called a "demon Christian" referring to HIS attacks on virtually
everyone), and your profanity-spewing God-hating, wife-beating buddy
ROD. NOT everyone; you, Rod, and Ike, you simply lie just like you lie
about everything else.
Who called who a murderer Snowjob? (That would be you called me one.)
Who called who a homosexual Snowjob? (That would be you calling me a
Lesbian.) Who levels false accusations at others? (That would be you
Snowjob, you lying hypocritical mess of a human being.)
...
> somebody that you are trying to woo because they excuse your hatred...
Projection to the MAX. You excuse Rod's professed hatred of God and
his previous "pretend interest" in religion because he joined you in
subjecting me to profanity, adding to your own "whore" and "Jezebel
witch" and "Lesbian" with slut, etc. You're a PIG.
And your compulsive lying demonstrates you are sick. You ought to seek
professional mental health; and I am not joking or being sarcastic on
this.
>
> I'm not asking you to change your point of view Linda because I don't
> give two cents what you believe.. I do not want to know you and I want
> nothing to do with you.. so stop posting to me and stop talking about
> me and start looking at yourself.
Make up your confused little mind Snowjob; you've just told Vince you
cannot killfile my posts to you because it will make your threads
disappear - another of your OBVIOUS LIES. LOL!
("Every time that I put up a post, since I do it though the net, if I
kill file her, my threads disappear" - See
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.messianic/msg/1bb3b91a9dc19db3
You are lying; your threads DO NOT disappear if you ignore one poster
to that thread (and you MUST KNOW THAT); if people were paying
attention to your BS, they'd all know that was false, as we are all
using "the net" just like YOU.
Snow
if people were paying
> attention to your BS, they'd all know that was false, as we are all
> using "the net" just like YOU.
Linda.. I don't care what you think.. You care what I think or you
wouldn't stalk and post about me on a daily bases.
How do we change for the better?
“Faith is an excitement and an enthusiasm: it is a condition of
intellectual magnificence to which we must cling as to a treasure, and
not squander on our way through life in the small coin of empty words,
or in exact and priggish argument.”
George Sand
In scriptures, YHWH calls on all of humanity to change, to become a
renewed creature. Humanity stuck in its old ways has used this word
of YHWH in all the wrong ways. Seeking to dominate each other rather
than themselves, they fear change. Raised into a belief system, they
spend the rest of that lifetime defending it rather than perfecting
it.
Mat 5:48 “Therefore, be perfect, as your Father in the heavens is
perfect.”
A clear example of this type of behavior are those who reject Elohim
YHWH EL Shaddai for other beliefs such as Evolution. On a regular
bases, you will find the heathens scouting around and they say the
Genesis account of scriptures is not true. I personally believe in
the 6 day creation. The very concept of evolution is CHANGE and so,
it begs the question again, Can we change?
“If you change the way you look at things, the things you look at
change.”
Wayne Dyer
When a person goes to work in a new occupation, they learn new words
and a new vocabulary as they grow and learn new ideas and
understandings. Those words establish certain ideas in the mind of
the person that uses them. This same idea carries on in our entire
life and science has established this in what is called, “Neuro
Linguistic Programming”.
Now some people have come to associate words differently and a clear
example of this is the word, “GOD”.
To some, if you said “God”, they might think of Jesus Christ and
others might think Allah, Buddha, Krishna or even the Dalai Lama.
The Dalai Lama teaches, “Open your arms to change, but don't let go of
your values.”, but what if what you value is wrong? Some men value
authority, conquest, control and money and use any means to acquire
more of it. Shouldn’t you want to let go of those values that serve
nobody but the self and in fact can be destructive forces in the
world? Do you think it’s a coincidence that the entire world worships
“God”? Ask the Muslim, Jew, Christian, Catholic or any monotheistic
worshiping person who they worship and the word always enters the
conversation even if they all mean different deities.
Ironically, each religion says that the other religions are not true
and yet they all have the same vocabulary in speaking of what they
believe except when it comes to one thing, A Name. Christians will
tell you that the Greek name of Jesus Christ is God which is ironic
when they claim he was a Jew that doesn’t have a Jewish name, as given
in Zechariah 6: 11,12.
Jew’s will say, Adonai HeShem (Lord name) or some other silly title is
the name of their creator, because they choose to bring his name to
naught by never teaching it by man made traditions.
Muslim’s say Allah is God but in all these religions, the worship of
“God” as creator is what unifies them all. The name “God” is
worshiped by all.
Rev 13:7 And it was given to him to fight with the set-apart ones and
to overcome them. And authority was given to him over every tribe and
tongue and nation.
Many people forget the, “fight of the tongue” and have submitted to
authority of false worship by use of the very words they speak that
have the power of life and death. They have forgotten:
Mat 12:37 “For by your words you shall be declared righteous, and by
your words you shall be declared unrighteous.”
Most of the time, we sit around and never really consider the power of
words in our daily life but the words we think actually relate to how
we react to any given situation and form the bases of our moral
understanding. Are you in the “favor” of YHWH, or “grace”? Grace by
implication means all is forgiven and forgotten, while favor implies
privileged opportunity.
The case for grace:
In Christian doctrine, everything on Mt. Sinai is now a “weak and
unprofitable” (Heb 7:18) mistake and now we can pick and choose “moral
laws” ourselves that we follow regardless of the fact that the
commandments were written by the hand (Exo 31:18) of the same
“perfect” creator.
YHWH chooses Israel and then proceeds to tell them, not to murder (Exo
20:13), not to sacrifice their children (Psa 106:38), not to spill
innocent blood (Deu 19:10) and then somehow in Christianity, all these
things that are evil and repugnant became an act (committed by the
Romans but blamed on the Jews) that saves the world… How do murder,
human sacrifice and the spilling of his son’s blood redeem the
world? The use of “grace” leads all who practice this faith to hate
YHWH and love “Jesus”. YHWH becomes the evil villain that commands
bad Jews who never listen, Jesus becomes savior for allowing exactly
what men shouldn’t do, be done to him and this act brings about
“grace”. Grace by murder and bloodshed…
The fruit of this grace is that they go to church on a day commanded
by church men, because somehow the unchanging “God”, changed his mind
about what he wrote. Is it a wonder why there are so many atheists
who observe Christians pretending to be self righteous and then raping
altar boys and behaving like devils in use net every day?
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Taste like a lemon to me.
The doctrine of Favor says that YHWH was always forgiving and that his
Son was sent to be a light to the world. Favor says that the perfect
offering is a spiritual offering done in communion to YHWH and that we
should worship our Father YAHWEH in the spirit and ask for
forgiveness. Favor says that we acknowledge our love of YHWH by
keeping his Torah as best we know how and establishing the
commandments in our lives and in return he blesses us, his children.
Favor says that your beliefs must become action, where as grace says
nothing different then, “Live as you please and if you believe, Ye
shall not die but shall be as God.”
The words you come to associate with your beliefs will become the
instigator of your actions. To change, you must choose to associate
new words to correspond with how you react.
“If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always
gotten. “
Tony Robbins
The clearest way to demonstrate this is by answer a simple question,
“Life is like _______” How do you fill in the blank?
If life is a game, then it might have rules and you want to win, so
you play to dominate the other players. If life is a war, then you
must determine if the people that you meet are friends or foes and
there is little room for in between. If life is a dance it might be
something wonderful and beautiful… it all depends on what you
associate to the words that gives these things it’s meaning… but can
you see where your reaction might change if you’re on either a
battlefield or a dance floor to any given situation???
Change the words you associate to something and you change the way you
feel and the way you react and behave. So, change is instant and
happens from one moment to the next and we can change and have… the
question is are you willing to change who you are and do you even want
to?
The keys to change rest in a simple passage:
Mat 7:7 “Ask and it shall be given to you, seek and you shall find,
knock and it shall be opened to you.
Mat 7:8 “For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and
to him who knocks it shall be opened.
Mat 7:9 “Or is there a man among you who, if his son asks for bread,
shall give him a stone?
Mat 7:10 “Or if he asks for a fish, shall he give him a snake?
Mat 7:11 “If you then, being wicked, know how to give good gifts to
your children, how much more shall your Father who is in the heavens
give what is good to those who ask Him!
Mat 7:12 “Therefore, whatever you wish men to do to you, do also to
them, for this is the Torah and the Prophets.
Are you asking the right questions? Questions are the control to your
life. Do you ask disempowering questions of yourself or questions
that empower you? You should ask yourself, “What would make the
biggest difference in my life? How can I bring about the change in my
life that helps me better serve YHWH?”
Change your questions and you’ll change your experience. Whatever we
ask for, we’ll get an answer to, whether it’s true or not, so ask
better questions of yourself and YAHWEH.
The most quoted remarks of President Kennedy got us to, “Ask not what
my country can do for me, ask what I can do for my country.” Shouldn't
the same be done for your deity?
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/messianic_Yehoshua/
Each friend represents a world in us, a world not born until they
arrive, and it is only by this meeting that a new world is born.
Anais Nin
http://www.e-sword.net/ Free bible software
http://www.isr-messianic.org/ <- download the scriptures free
or
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua/web/RNKJV.zip <--
free download of the Restored Names King James Version
We fear to know the fearsome and unsavory aspects of ourselves, but we
fear even more to know the godlike in ourselves.
Abraham Maslow
Psa 82:6 I, I said, “You are elohim, And all of you are sons of the
Most High.
Psa 82:7 “But as men you die, And fall as one of the heads.”
Linda Lee
> O.K., Linda, I can buy that.
Top-posting is confusing and is considered rude on Usenet. I don't
know what you're 'buying'/referring to until I get to the bottom of
your post. At least leave the person's name and time and date of the
post so they know what you're saying.
>
> At the risk of inflaming Jewish/Gentile sentiments (never far from the boil
> around here) I would point out that the Jews of Yeshua/Yehoshua's time
> didn't celebrate births at all. Ecc. 7:1.
Ecc. 7:1 - because being in the flesh is worse than being spirit.
> In contrast, the Gentiles,
> including the Greeks (who borrowed from the Egyptians) and the Romans (who
> borrowed from the Greeks) placed great importance on birth days for
> astrological reasons.
>
> It seems likely Yeshua was conceived around Hanukkah and born around
> Sukkot -- and crucified at Passover & raised on the Day of First Fruits. Of
> these crucial life events, the only one He asked us to "keep" was His Last
> Supper.
>
> We should celebrate not only the birth but the ministry, miracles, message,
> death, resurrection and rulership of the Son of God YEAR ROUND. We could
> maybe start by using some of the $400 billion we spend annually to Stimulate
> the Economy for Jesus Sake to feed the hungry, clothe the cold, and pump
> clean water to the sick people who die every year by the droves as we
> endlessly gift one another. Amen?
Amen.
You've responded to this post of mine to Vince on the subject of
birthdays, but you have not responded to my post to you showing that
the New Testament confirms the Messiah was worshipped during his
incarnation, a subject that matters. See below from
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.messianic/msg/d11458abb809a69e
"On Dec 14, 8:19 pm, "John Gardner" <gardner1...@shaw.ca> wrote:
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
> Where was YHWH when the Shekhina was burning in the Tabernacle/Temple Holy
> of Holies? Where was YHWH in the theophanies of the Tanach - e.g. Gen. 18:1?
> In Heaven? Yes. On earth & visible? Yes. In a sense that I decribed as
> "Lesser" in previous posting -- yet authentic and vital to faith.
> It seems clear to me that the Father, YHWH, is quite capable of manifesting
> Himself in a light, in a pillar of fire/cloud, as an "angelic" visitor (or 3
> visitors), and finally in the form of a Son, without detracting at all from
> his majestic omnipresence. Heb. 1:1.
> You asked about prayer. We pray as Yeshua taught us to pray -- to Our Father
> in Heaven. We don't mean by this (I hope we don't mean!) that YHWH is
> somehow confined to our human notion of "Heaven as a place". We feel, and we
> ought to feel, that He is immediate to us; He hears our praises & our
> prayers; He informs our studies; He revives our souls. Yet He remains "in
> Heaven"!!
> I am a montheist. I am confident that you, Snow, are also a monotheist. That
> means, among other things, that the esteem we ascribe to YHWH does not ever,
> and must not ever, go to another! That, in a nutshell, is why Yeshua went
> about Galilee and Judea turning men's hearts to the Father -- and that is
> why He did NOT demand, or even hint, that they should worship Him, the man,
> Yeshua, as God, or as God the Son.
How do you reach that conclusion? Many, including the apostles, DID
WORSHIP the Messiah, and he always accepted their worship and did not
ever tell them not to do so:
The Messiah was worshipped during his incarnation as an adult prior to
his resurrection from the dead:
Matt. 14:33 says the apostles worshipped the Messiah, “Then they that
were in the ship came and worshipped him [Christ, Messiah], saying, Of
a truth thou art the Son of God”.
Matt. 8:2 says, “And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him
[Christ, the Messiah], saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me
clean”.
Matt. 9:18 says, “While he spake these things unto them, behold, there
came a certain ruler, and worshipped [Christ, the Messiah], saying, My
daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she
shall live”.
Matt. 15:25 says, “Then came she and worshipped him [Christ, the
Messiah], saying, Lord, help me”.
Mark 5:6 says, “But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped
him”[Christ, the Messiah].
John 9:35-38 says, “Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when
he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of
God? He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on
him? And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he
that talketh with thee. And he said, Lord, I believe. And he
worshipped him” [Christ, the Messiah].
The Messiah was worshipped following his resurrection from the dead:
John 20:28 says, “And Thomas answered and said unto him [Christ,
Yahashua` the Messiah], My Lord and my God”.
Matt. 28:9 says Mary Magdalene and the other Mary worshipped him
following his resurrection, “And as they went to tell his disciples,
behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him
by the feet, and worshipped him” [Christ, the Messiah].
And the Messiah was worshipped at birth:
Matt. 2:11 says, “And when they were come into the house, they saw the
young child [Christ, the Messiah] with Mary his mother, and fell down,
and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they
presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh”.
In Isa. 11:10 the prophet ISAIAH PROPHESIES that the GENTILES would
WORSHIP THE MESSIAH:
Isa. 11:10 says, “And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse,
which shall stand for an ensign [“signal”] of the people; to it shall
the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious”.
The word here translated 'seek' – Heb. 1875 – is defined as “A
primitive root; properly to tread or frequent; usually to follow (for
pursuit or search); by implication to seek or ask; specifically to
worship”.
God and the Lamb of God/Messiah share ONE FACE, ONE NAME, AND ONE
THRONE because they are one and the same:
Rev. 22:3-4 says, "And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of
God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their
foreheads".
> The analogy between Yeshua and the Shekhina light is not perfect, but I
> think it's useful. On one hand, it was definitely taught, and believed, that
> YHWH really dwelled - tabernacled - in the Ohel Moed, and later in the
> Temple -- even though it was recognized that not even the heavens, or the
> heavens of teh heavens, could REALLY contain YHWH. On the other hand, the
> Israelites did not WORSHIP the Shekhina. That would be idolatry!
Apparently, you believe the apostles and disciples of the Messiah were
all guilty of idolatry since they worshipped the Messiah.
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
>
> John/Jochanan.
>
> "Linda Lee" <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote in message
Linda Lee
> On Dec 17, 5:27 am, Linda Lee <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
Aren't you glad now you've falsely accused me of being a "Lesbian"?
Make up your confused little mind Snowjob; you've just told Vince you
cannot killfile my posts to you because it will make your threads
disappear - another of your OBVIOUS LIES. LOL!
("Every time that I put up a post, since I do it though the net, if I
kill file her, my threads disappear" - See
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.messianic/msg/1bb3b91a9dc19db3
You are lying; your threads DO NOT disappear if you ignore one poster
to that thread (and you MUST KNOW THAT); if people were paying
attention to your BS, they'd all know that was false, as we are all
using "the net" just like YOU.
> if people were paying
>
> > attention to your BS, they'd all know that was false, as we are all
> > using "the net" just like YOU.
>
> Linda.. I don't care what you think.. You care what I think or you
> wouldn't stalk and post about me on a daily bases.
<snip rest of sicko Snowjob's perpetual lies>
Oh, I do hope your thread won't disappear if I delete my own post!
LOL!
Rod
> On Dec 16, 10:40 am, Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
>> On Dec 17, 2:33 am, Linda Lee <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Dec 16, 9:15 am, "Jude Alexander" <whate...@thispoint.why> wrote:
>>>> She's one of the most hostile people I've seen in ACC.
>>> You're just mad
>
>
>> No Linda.. LISTEN to people.. you have anger and hostility issues.
>> Everytime you post on these NG's.. you are attacking somebody over
>> something.. I have never seen you post in any other manner ...
>
>
> You are simply a LIAR and false accuser, Snowjob. In the last three
> years, I have responded that way to attacks from you and your two MCP
> buddies; IKE (whom you lauded as a friend for his false attacks on me
> like your own attacks, calling me witch and Jezebel, but whom you
> called a "demon Christian" referring to HIS attacks on virtually
> everyone), and your profanity-spewing God-hating, wife-beating buddy
> ROD. NOT everyone; you, Rod, and Ike, you simply lie just like you lie
> about everything else.
You simple minded female! You are LIVING PROOF that women like
yourself(angry, mouthy, vicious liars) are nothing more that a life
support system for a vagina!
The accusations you are making are false, all the more so because
you are basing them on a conversation by email which you saw only
the tail end of, and have no idea what was being talked about! You
are in every sense of the word, A MOUTHY, TALKING VAGINA WITHOUT
A HINT OF ANY THOUGHT PROCESS TAKING PLACE IN YOUR HEAD!
Now stop your lying and shut the hell up!
Rod
> On Dec 16, 9:15 am, "Jude Alexander" <whate...@thispoint.why> wrote:
>>
>> She's one of the most hostile people I've seen in ACC.
>
>
> You're just mad I pointed out your statements about Judaism were
> "bigotry" the other day. If it makes you feel any better, I suppose I
> am bigoted about Islam and truly believe it is as evil as you view
> Judaism.
>
> I suppose you're like the hypocrite MCP John Gardner and think 'the
> little woma'n should 'guard my tongue' while Snowjob and his God-
> hating buddy Rod call me every profane name in the book and post lies
> about me? LOL! Not gonna happen.
Oh poor poor Linda! You spout off al manner of lies and insults about
what you know not and expect US to set there and take your abuse quietly.
Go suck dirt, you frog faced cretin!
Jude Alexander
On Dec 16, 12:15 pm, "Jude Alexander" <whate...@thispoint.why> wrote:
> "Linda Lee" <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote in message
>
> news:427dacb0-50e3-4864...@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 16, 9:15 am, "Jude Alexander" <whate...@thispoint.why> wrote:
>
>
>
> > She's one of the most hostile people I've seen in ACC.
>
> You're just mad I pointed out your statements about Judaism were
> "bigotry" the other day. If it makes you feel any better, I suppose I
> am bigoted about Islam and truly believe it is as evil as you view
> Judaism.
> You're so incredibly blinded by your hostility. I don't think of Judaism
> as
> evil. I think of it more as full of ancient ignorance and mental illness
That is bigotry to say all those who profess belief in Judaism are
mentally ill.
Are you able to see how you misread that? You split up the text in
parenthesis below. AT TIMES BUT NOT ALWAYS!!! At times is not all the
time!
> (at times but not always). I don't hate Jewish people in the least.
That's good; I don't hate any particular Muslims either, but I DO
think their religion is downright evil. I recognize that is bigotry,
yet I still believe it is evil at its core, and in particular believe
its denial the Messiah was the Messiah and Saviour and is "only a
prophet" (as Snowjob maintains) is the essence of evil.
So, you see it's not ME, it's you who assign evil to a whole religion. I
call it ignorance. Some will, IN THAT IGNORNCE, do evil as we all know.
Islam was invented by Mohammed who had a limited working knowledge of
Judiasm and Christianity. He was what I alluded to before, mentally
disordered. He had the brain disorder of epilepsy, which he acknowledged
happily thinking that was the gift God gave to all the prophets. You can
find this information within one of his biographies.
God judges with complete knowledge of every human being. We are unable to
do that even for ourselves much less one other human being.
> In
> fact, I used to work with them and I had good relationship with all of
> them
> except the Fundies which acted like a non-Jew was diseased and wouldn't
> even
> answer me on the first day that I ran into one about what time it was.
Then they were bigoted against non-Jews.
Just the Fundies, the reformed Jews that I was around everyday were no
different in social interaction than anybody else.
> I suppose you're like the hypocrite MCP John Gardner and think 'the
> little woma'n should 'guard my tongue' while Snowjob and his God-
> hating buddy Rod call me every profane name in the book and post lies
> about me? LOL! Not gonna happen.
> I'm not sure who John Garnder is. You see how absolutely you employ
> "magical thinking" as you believe you know everything about a person you
> disagree with and, OF COURSE, it's ALL negative. :)
I didn't say you knew him, I said I suppose you're being hypocritical
like him and believe I should hold my tongue while Snowjob spews such
profanity at me as "whore" and "Jezebel" along with more false
accusations I'm a "Lesbian" and a "murderer", since you've taken it
upon yourself to have an opinion on the matter.
You said that you supposed that I liked him. I have to know him to either
like or dislike him.
IS that what you think I should do, or am I wrong???
I've already said that those words shouldn't be directed to you. You've
both gone to the limit of how much you can bear of each other. Perhaps,
it's time to take a break. Taking a break doesn't mean you lose whatever
argument is going on. Unfortunatley, that is what a lot of people think.
I've left off some arguments KNOWING that the jerks would think they were
"victorious." That's THEIR ignorance. It'll come out eventually.
Do I misunderstand that you want me to remain silent in the face of
Snowjob's onslaught that's been going on for over a year and a half
and into which last July he's invited his profane, God-hating, wife-
beating, buddy Rod (and yes, I can prove in his own words he hates God
and beats his wife)?
I would suggest to both of you to leave off with each other at least for
awhile. It's already been made clear how you feel about each other.
Okay, so if that true, okay. That's unfortunate, to say the least. Can you
change him from doing that (if it's true?)
> At least what I say about the profanity-spewing, lying, hypocritical,
> falsely accusing, wholly ignorant, antichrist Snowjob is true; he lies
> with every stroke of the keys, changing his "beliefs" every couple of
> weeks depending on whom he is trying to manipulate/impress; then he
> goes into an impotent fury when his old contradictory posts are
> posted.
> I think you're way out of line. He doesn't lie.
BALONEY. You do not know what you're talking about. He has been
falsely calling me a "Lesbian" for months, and I ought to know whether
or not I am, and I AM NOT, and have no intentions of changing. He has
also labeled me a "murderer" simply because I voted for the President
of my choice; and I am not a murderer and have never had an abortion.
Look, I haven't kept up with you or Snow or Rob. If you're not a Lesbian,
then I can understand why you would be upset, that being libel.
> IF he believes something
> that isn't true, it's called mistaken. At least have the decency to see
> that just about everybody here thinks they are correct. They're not out to
> deceive, even you. However, you have let your judgement be clouded, imo,
> about Snow. I disagree with him hardily on some subjects but I don't think
> of him as lowdown as you do because he isn't. There are much more
> aggravating personalities here on ACC than Snow.
If you would read his posts and see the deliberate lies, you might
change your mind. He changes position on his 'beliefs' depending upon
who he's directing his post.
Well, my position is that most people on ACC don't go out to actually lie
but they're presenting their understanding to the best of their ability.
Sure, there's a few who just make waves.
Btw, I DID see that Rob lied about being saved. Who knows why he would lie
about that? I just can't get interested in all that.
Look, I'm not against you. Why not take a break from feeling hostility,
warranted or not. I understand that at least some of it is warranted.
Wouldn't you like a break? When we fight about our beliefs, it often times
turned negative, self included, because everybody gets hurt and/or mad about
particular thing being said. I had to take a whole year off most recently
whereas usually I used to take a month or so off now and then.
Rod
> On Dec 16, 1:33 pm, Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
>> On Dec 17, 5:27 am, Linda Lee <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
>
> Aren't you glad now you've falsely accused me of being a "Lesbian"?
I'm the one that did that, and I still think you act like a dyke
and fight like a beer hall queen! You have all the mannerisms of
a drunken whore and the tact of a road side bomb.
No self respecting pimp would handle you.
Jude Alexander
her to do, at least for awhile to get a break. It seems that you've both
brought each other to the edge and it's all useless anyway because we can't
change another person's behavior. That's why, even though people think I'm
losing an argument or that I'm afraid of their "superior" knowledg, I walk
away from posts that I can see will go on and on without any conclusion.
It IS a fact that people can argue for a lifetime on one issue. I know this
and do not want to get into endless back and forth never getting anywhere.
Linda Lee
> "Linda Lee" <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote in message
>
P.S.
Regarding my statement of "That is bigotry to say all those who
profess belief in Judaism are
mentally ill." in reply to your comment, "I don't think of Judaism as
> evil. I think of it more as full of ancient ignorance and mental illness " (from http://groups.google.com/group/alt.messianic/msg/f2bfe4aa627e0d2e)
Some Jews are bigoted against Gentiles, but that doesn't mean members
of Judaism are mentally ill. It simply means they think they are right
to reject Gentiles because, according to what they know of their
Scriptures, God encouraged them to reject the ancient Gentiles who
worshipped other gods, and they see Christianity as an extension of
that idolatry. But they are either rejecting or are ignorant of the
fact that their Scriptures also say the purpose for which they were
formed as a nation was to enlighten the Gentiles, not reject them, and
that the Gentiles would worship the Jewish Messiah.
Regarding Yahashua` the Messiah, son of David who was son of Jesse,
Isaiah prophesies the Gentiles would follow and worship him:
Isa. 11:10 "And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which
shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles
seek: and his rest shall be glorious".
The word here translated 'seek' - Heb. 1875 - "properly to tread or
frequent; usually to FOLLOW (for pursuit or search); by implication to
seek or ask; specifically to WORSHIP".
Dor
Linda Lee
>
> At the risk of inflaming Jewish/Gentile sentiments (never far from the boil
> around here) I would point out that the Jews of Yeshua/Yehoshua's time
> didn't celebrate births at all. Ecc. 7:1. In contrast, the Gentiles,
> including the Greeks (who borrowed from the Egyptians) and the Romans (who
> borrowed from the Greeks) placed great importance on birth days for
> astrological reasons.
>
> It seems likely Yeshua was conceived around Hanukkah and born around
> Sukkot -- and crucified at Passover & raised on the Day of First Fruits. Of
> these crucial life events, the only one He asked us to "keep" was His Last
> Supper.
According to the author at this link who used the "Bible Code" method,
he was born on the first day of Tishri, which was on September 11 in 3
B.C. - from http://members.cox.net/8thday/birth.html
"What it shows is that Yeshua (Jesus) was born on Rosh Hashanah (head
of the year), which is also called Yom Teruah (day of blowing) and in
English the Feast of Trumpets. It's also Rosh Khodesh which means the
head of the month. Rosh Hashanah occurs on the 1st of Tishri every
year in the jewish calendar, and is in the fall of the year. The
matrix shows that the birth occurred in the jewish year 3759, which is
the fall of 3 BC. In 3 BC, the 1st of Tishri occurred on September 11,
3 BC. With the matrix showing Rosh Hashanah, Yom Teruah, Rosh Khodesh,
and "on 1 Tishri", it is clearly showing 1 Tishri as the exact day of
Yeshua's birth."
Snow
Are you “Under the Law”? Without the law, you are LAWLESS and
preaching you are not under it means you preach lawlessness.
Mat 7:23 “And then I shall declare to them, ‘I never knew you, depart
from Me, you who work lawlessness!’
Of the many false teachings of Christianity put forward by its
inventor Apostle Paul in the beast canon is that you are not under the
law. The classic misdirection is to say it is the “Law of Moses” but
a quick examination of the Torah shows otherwise:
Gen 26:5 because Aḇraham obeyed
[1]My voice and guarded My Charge:
[2]My commands, [3]My laws,
[4]and My Torot1.” Footnote: 1Torot - plural of Torah, teaching
Notice that Yahweh in Genesis calls them “My Commands” this is
repeated again in Duet 11:1.
The next misdirection is to state that “the law” wasn’t given until
Moses. The Sabbath was made on day 7 of the creation:
Gen 2:3 And Elohim blessed the seventh day and set it apart, because
on it He rested from all His work which Elohim in creating had made.
The Sabbath is part of creation that is given to man as it moves on
the earth. Israel was expected to keep the Sabbath even before Mt.
Sinai.
Exo 16:29 “See, because Yahweh *has given you the Sabbath*, therefore
He is giving you bread for two days on the sixth day. Let each one
stay in his place, do not let anyone go out of his place on the
seventh day.”
This is why Yehoshua said he was “master of the Sabbath”. The Sabbath
command as a day of rest means that your focus is on doing what is
right in the site of the Almighty. That the 10 Commandments was since
the beginning and only re-issued to the slaves of Israel is easily
established:
1Jn 2:7 Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command
which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word
which you heard from the beginning.
2Jn 1:6 And this is the love, that we walk according to His commands.
This is the command, that as you have heard from the beginning, you
should walk in it.
Sin and Transgression of the 10 commands are easily established in
Genesis:
Gen 4:7 “If you do well, is there not acceptance? And if you do not do
well, sin1 is crouching at the door. And its desire is for you, but
you should master it.” Footnote: 1Sin (transgression of the law) was
already then known, as we also read in 39:9.
Even in Genesis 4 we see the punishment of Cain committing murder of
his brother, Yahweh has compassion. The fact that Christians believe
Yahweh is without compassion is the result of blind Pharisees like
Paul and the book of Hebrews but the truth is that compassion is the
law:
Deu 4:31 “For Yahweh your Elohim is a compassionate Ěl, He does not
forsake you, nor destroy you, nor forget the covenant of your fathers
which He swore to them.
Yahweh does not destroy you, sin destroys you.
Deu 11:16 ‘Guard yourselves, lest your heart be deceived, and you turn
aside and serve other mighty ones and bow down to them.
The Torah is not a curse as Paul says and he misquotes purposely the
Torah. Do NOT serve Paul, he is a liar and the truth is not in him,
you are being tested according to Deu 11 1-7. The curse is if you do
NOT obey the Commands.
Deu 11:26 ‘See, I am setting before you today a blessing and a curse:
Deu 11:27 the blessing, when you obey the *commands of Yahweh* your
Elohim which I command you today;
Deu 11:28 and the curse, if you do not obey the commands of Yahweh
your Elohim, but turn aside from the way which I command you today, to
go after other mighty ones which you have not known.
Notice it reads the Commands. The typical Christian misdirection is
to say you are cursed, “under the law” and they lump in priest
ordinance and ever right ruling given to Israel but the word says *the
commands of Yahweh* of which 10 are the covenant.
Simply put:
Gal 3:10 For as many as are of works of Torah are under the curse, for
it has been written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all
that has been written in the book of the Torah, to do them.”
This is NOT WRITTEN. Paul has lied and added words to the Torah and
in doing so, broken the ordinance:
Deu 4:2 “Do not add to the Word which I command you, and do not take
away from it, so as to guard the commands of יהוה [Yahweh] your Elohim
which I am commanding you.
The final lie of Paul is the statement:
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against
us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it
to his cross;
The Messiah refuted this claim personally:
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you,
Till heaven and earth pass,
one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law,
till all be fulfilled.
Paul had no authority to make such a claim. Heaven and earth are
still hear and many prophecies have not been fulfilled. Still, those
who worship Paul will make claims to the contrary of the Messiah…
because they believe a lie, they want you to believe a lie because
they have NO LOVE.
Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Do you love Paul or the Messiah?
Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
2Co 12:16 But be it so, I did not burden you: nevertheless, being
crafty, I caught you with guile.
Paul wanted to destroy the Church of Yahweh by his own admission.
Gal 2:18 For if I build again the things which (I destroyed), I make
myself a transgressor.
We must first ask our self, “What have we destroyed by listening to
Paul?”
Pro 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and
reproofs of instruction are the way of life:
We are destroying the lamp that leads us, the light within it and the
way to our own life.
Rev 18:23 “And the light of a lamp shall not shine in you any more at
all. And the voice of bridegroom [Yehoshua] and bride [Yahweh] shall
not be heard in you any more at all. For your merchants were the great
ones of the earth, for by your sorcery all the nations were led
astray.
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
"Paul was the great Coryphaeus, and first corrupter of the doctrines
of Jesus."
Thomas Jefferson, 3rd President of the Untied States
Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood.
Daniel Burnham
An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation,
nor does truth become error because nobody sees it.
Mohandas Gandhi
Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other
time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are the change that
we seek.
Barack Obama
http://e-sword-users.org/ Free bible software
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua <-- please join
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/messianic_Yehoshua/
http://www.isr-messianic.org/ <- download the scriptures free
He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who
helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against
it is really cooperating with it.
Martin Luther King, Jr.
Linda Lee
No, I said " I suppose you're like", 'you are like', not, I suppose
you like him.
>
> IS that what you think I should do, or am I wrong???
>
> I've already said that those words shouldn't be directed to you.
I missed that post; mind providing the link? I've only seen the ones
defending him and criticizing me.
> You've
> both gone to the limit of how much you can bear of each other. Perhaps,
> it's time to take a break. Taking a break doesn't mean you lose whatever
> argument is going on.
When he continues to lie and falsely claim that I am a "murderer" and
a "Lesbian", he is hurting my reputation with lies; if I do not deny
it, then others will think I am a "murderer" and a "Lesbian" (in fact
Ike said when Snowjob first accused me of this, 'I don't see her
denying' she's a lesbian).
Snowjob started this with me, supposedly we were "friends" when I
noticed him posting in other threads I was not posting in that I was a
"whore" because I insisted on using the KJV Bible, and the words God
and LORD after he'd ordered me to desist doing so. I'll tell you, the
claim I'm a murderer simply because I voted for the President of my
choice is the most annoying, because not only was he insisting I
believe what he believed about religion; he was attempting to dictate
my choice to vote for a Democrat in the election. He's a control
freak, as well as a compulsive liar, and he attempts to exert his
controls on women posters. That plus his penchant for applying filthy
names to women, leads me to believe he's a "male chauvinist pig".
> Unfortunatley, that is what a lot of people think.
> I've left off some arguments KNOWING that the jerks would think they were
> "victorious." That's THEIR ignorance. It'll come out eventually.
>
> Do I misunderstand that you want me to remain silent in the face of
> Snowjob's onslaught that's been going on for over a year and a half
> and into which last July he's invited his profane, God-hating, wife-
> beating, buddy Rod (and yes, I can prove in his own words he hates God
> and beats his wife)?
>
> I would suggest to both of you to leave off with each other at least for
> awhile.
In the last few months, when I've quit posting to him, he feels free
to post to me; he doesn't let it go, and his complaints he wants it to
stop is belied by his stated belief that arguing like this with me,
and the false accusations he levels against me, helps him fight
against Christianity.
> It's already been made clear how you feel about each other.
>
> Okay, so if that true, okay. That's unfortunate, to say the least. Can you
> change him from doing that (if it's true?)
Doing what? Beating his wife? The point is, Snowjob is on constant
attack against Christian belief, but is best buddies with a person who
says God is a psycho, that he was pretending to show an interest in
religion, and his sole reason for buddying up to him was because Rod
was willing to endlessly post profanity to me. Rod I have ignored for
a week or so lately; Snowjob is against Christ; his manipulations will
not be ignored.
>
> > At least what I say about the profanity-spewing, lying, hypocritical,
> > falsely accusing, wholly ignorant, antichrist Snowjob is true; he lies
> > with every stroke of the keys, changing his "beliefs" every couple of
> > weeks depending on whom he is trying to manipulate/impress; then he
> > goes into an impotent fury when his old contradictory posts are
> > posted.
> > I think you're way out of line. He doesn't lie.
>
> BALONEY. You do not know what you're talking about. He has been
> falsely calling me a "Lesbian" for months, and I ought to know whether
> or not I am, and I AM NOT, and have no intentions of changing. He has
> also labeled me a "murderer" simply because I voted for the President
> of my choice; and I am not a murderer and have never had an abortion.
>
> Look, I haven't kept up with you or Snow or Rob. If you're not a Lesbian,
> then I can understand why you would be upset, that being libel.
NO! I am NOT a "Lesbian". And yes, it is definitely libel and is
based on NOTHING I've ever done or said here. Perhaps I should look
into doing something about that.
>
> > IF he believes something
> > that isn't true, it's called mistaken. At least have the decency to see
> > that just about everybody here thinks they are correct. They're not out to
> > deceive, even you. However, you have let your judgement be clouded, imo,
> > about Snow. I disagree with him hardily on some subjects but I don't think
> > of him as lowdown as you do because he isn't. There are much more
> > aggravating personalities here on ACC than Snow.
>
> If you would read his posts and see the deliberate lies, you might
> change your mind. He changes position on his 'beliefs' depending upon
> who he's directing his post.
>
> Well, my position is that most people on ACC don't go out to actually lie
> but they're presenting their understanding to the best of their ability.
> Sure, there's a few who just make waves.
He knows I am not a lesbian nor a murderer.
>
> Btw, I DID see that Rob lied about being saved. Who knows why he would lie
> about that? I just can't get interested in all that.
They both like to play with Christians. When Rod was pretending to be
interested in Christianity, he e-mailed me asking me to come visit him
and asking where I live. Why would he do that when his interest in
religion was a pretense? And now he's so openly hateful; I think he
would have had a surprise for me in store if I'd responded to his
invitation to visit him.
>
> Look, I'm not against you. Why not take a break from feeling hostility,
> warranted or not. I understand that at least some of it is warranted.
>
> Wouldn't you like a break? When we fight about our beliefs, it often times
> turned negative, self included, because everybody gets hurt and/or mad about
> particular thing being said. I had to take a whole year off most recently
> whereas usually I used to take a month or so off now and then.
He thinks others will excuse his and his God-hating buddy Rod's
attacks and condemn me for responding because I am a Christian and
they think I should roll over and invite more verbal attack (when the
Messiah's admonition to 'turn the other cheek' is about not responding
with violence to the first violent blow).
Snowjob tends to keep it up with gossip with others even when I don't
participate; I don't think he'll let it go because he has just lied
about how he can't killfile my posts because this will cause his
threads to disappear from the Internet - a load of nonsense.
Linda Lee
> The Sabbath was made on day 7 of the creation:
>
> Gen 2:3 And Elohim blessed the seventh day and set it apart, because
> on it He rested from all His work which Elohim in creating had made.
>
> The Sabbath is part of creation that is given to man as it moves on
> the earth. Israel was expected to keep the Sabbath even before Mt.
> Sinai.
>
> Exo 16:29 “See, because Yahweh *has given you the Sabbath*, therefore
> He is giving you bread for two days on the sixth day. Let each one
> stay in his place, do not let anyone go out of his place on the
> seventh day.”
>
> This is why Yehoshua said he was “master of the Sabbath”.
NO.
Matt. 12:8 Yahashua` the Messiah said, "For the Son of man is Lord
even of the sabbath day."
He said he (who often called himself "the Son of man") was "Lord even
of the sabbath day" because he was Lord of EVERYTHING as he was God
incarnate.
O
Lets get this straight. I've tried to correct Linda and she refuses to
correct it. This wife beating BS started with a post I made to John
Weatherley after responding to several of his emails on the topic
of a person in another group that DOES beat his wife. I was ridiculing
the man in the post that I made. Now, this IS NO ONES BUSINESS, but
the extremist nutcases kelly and Linda have made it their business.
Now, is this clear enough for ya Linda, or do you need me to rub
your face in it ?? When someone tells you "None of your business",
it doesn't mean that you can go ahead and make something up that
sounds bad to you.
Any questions ?
Jude Alexander
"Rod" <spa...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:hgbai8$ehb$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Alright, Rod. Take a break, okay?
Snow
how to weasel their way around keeping the word of YAHWEH. Instead of
binding it on their hearts, they spend day and night twisting the
truth to create an Elohim of their own making and desires, one that
serves them and not one they serve.
If I am to take any example from scriptures on how to lead my life, I
choose the prophet Daniel for my own. I’d like to encourage some of
you prayer warriors to be like Daniel also... Daniel had a hard life
and as a child was swept from his home and brought to serve one of the
most evil tyrants of world history, Nebuchadnezzar, Sovereign of
Babylon.
He was trained in foreign traditions and even suffered the humiliation
of having his name changed to a pagan one of Belteshazzar, his very
identity was stolen. Can you imagine what that must have been like?
I can’t and must consider myself blessed that I have the freedom
Yahweh has given me.
Dan 1:8 But Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile
himself...
What a powerful statement that is to me... that we purpose in our
hearts not to defile ourselves. Not just among heathens but all men.
We are called to set ourselves apart from the world and all that is in
it.
A recent post of mine was very controversial but I’m so happy that I
did it because in the process, Yahweh taught me something new that I
honestly didn’t notice the importance of it before hand. You see, a
lot of the times, I just start writing and I allow the word of
Yahweh’s scriptures to guide me and lead me... where it lead me was to
his little gem:
Psa 51:16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou
delightest not in burnt offering.
Psa 51:17 The sacrifices of Elohim are a broken spirit: a broken and a
contrite heart, O Elohim, thou wilt not despise.
You see, lately for me, I’ve had a crushed spirit and a broken heart,
not because of any personal relationship problems but because, I often
wonder where Yahweh is leading me. I wonder if anybody at all hears
me, trying to help them see the truth and so often I feel so
ineffective.
The easy path in this life is to just play along with the crowd and
except the dogma of the day and to just follow along and agree. A
dozen times a day people will say, “your blind” and I respond with the
word of Yahweh.
Mat 23:26 “Blind Pharisee, first clean the inside of the cup and dish,
so that the outside of them becomes clean too.
We must clean out our own defilement inside and that means I start
with my own. I am not your judge and this is not about me telling you
what you do wrong, you know for yourself what needs to be cleaned out
of your closet, just as I do. So, without condemnation, I challenge
you dear reader, clean out the closet and purpose in your heart not to
defile yourself with the world.
But Daniel gave me so much more of an example in my life and one I
hope you take with you also... One of fearlessness to face any danger
and know that Yahweh walks beside you, behind you and in front of you
when you do set in your heart to do righteousness and right-ruling.
Isa 54:17 “No weapon formed against you shall prosper, and every
tongue which rises against you in judgment you shall prove wrong. This
is the inheritance of the servants of [Yahweh] יהוה, and their
righteousness from Me,” declares [Yahweh] יהוה.
Take your inheritance and embrace it as a servant, with humility and
yes... even a bruised spirit and know that his promise is with YOU!
Fear nothing but Yahweh and know that he is your righteousness and
your strength and your saviour.
Isa 45:15 Truly You are Ěl, who hide Yourself, O Elohim of Yisra’ĕl,
Saviour!
He has hid himself from the world for the time being.
Jer 4:22 “For My people are foolish, they have not known Me. They are
stupid children, and they have no understanding. They are wise to do
evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.”
I was a stupid child, unknowing and ignorant and that is my
confession, but I purpose in my heart, I will not defile myself
Father, show me your good and teach me your way that I might not
stumble again. Like Daniel, bring me out of the furnace of affliction
and into your way.
Deu 4:20 “But יהוה [Yahweh] has taken you and brought you out of the
iron furnace, out of Mitsrayim, to be His people, an inheritance, as
it is today.
So let’s share together the story of Daniel:
Dan 3:12 There are certain Jews whom thou hast set over the affairs of
the province of Babylon, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego; these men,
O king, have not regarded thee: they serve not thy elohim, nor worship
the golden image which thou hast set up.
The story is set and Daniel has refused to break the commandment, even
knowing that surely Yahweh would have mercy. Rather than bend to the
traditions of man and then count on compassion, Daniel put his very
heart to do what is right and obey Yahweh at the cost of even his very
life.
Dan 3:17 If it be so, our Elohim whom we serve is able to deliver us
from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine
hand, O king.
Dan 3:18 But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not
serve thy elohim, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.
Now notice that Daniel doesn’t assume or know he is going to live and
he is ready to die for what he knows is right and pay with the highest
cost, his life.
Dan 3:19 Then was Nebuchadnezzar full of fury, and the form of his
visage was changed against Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego: therefore
he spake, and commanded that they should heat the furnace one seven
times more than it was wont to be heated.
Dan 3:20 And he commanded the most mighty men that were in his army to
bind Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, and to cast them into the
burning fiery furnace.
Dan 3:21 Then these men were bound in their coats, their hosen, and
their hats, and their other garments, and were cast into the midst of
the burning fiery furnace.
Dan 3:22 Therefore because the kings commandment was urgent, and the
furnace exceeding hot, the flame of the fire slew those men that took
up Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego.
Dan 3:23 And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, fell
down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.
Dan 3:24 Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonied, and rose up in
haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three
men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the
king, True, O king.
Dan 3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in
the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the
fourth is like the Son of Elohim.
And then we see Yehoshua the Messiah in the fire with Daniel.
Now I hope and pray that none of us has to face the furnace but if we
do, I hope that you too are ready to be as uncompromising as Daniel to
obey the Torah of Yahweh. Don’t be foolish and seek your own will
being “wise to do evil”, take the inheritance of the servant with both
hands and Yahweh will reward you. Practice belief by keeping his word
and not just with your lips.
Mat 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and
honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the
commandments of men.
Mat 15:10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and
understand:
Mat 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that
which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
Mat 12:36 “And I say to you that for every idle word men speak, they
shall give an account of it in the day of judgment.
Mat 12:37 “For by your words you shall be declared righteous, and by
your words you shall be declared unrighteous.”
Be righteous in all your words! May Yahweh bless and keep you strong
and build you up.
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other
time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are the change that
we seek.
Barack Obama
He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who
helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against
it is really cooperating with it.
Martin Luther King, Jr.
Remember, a real decision is measured by the fact that you've taken
new action. If there's no action, you haven't truly decided.
Tony Robbins
All that we are is the result of what we have thought. The mind is
everything. What we think we become.
Buddha
http://www.e-sword.net/ Free bible software
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua <-- join
http://www.isr-messianic.org/ <- download the scriptures free
or
http://messianicyehoshua.googlegroups.com/web/RNKJV.zip <--free
Jude Alexander
on a tangent? Just take a break, okay?
"Snow" <snowp...@eck.net.au> wrote in message
news:d63f6f61-a1a6-4e87...@u1g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 17, 6:00 am, "Jude Alexander" <whate...@thispoint.why> wrote:
> Snow, perhaps you should take a break from responding to Linda as I've
> asked
> her to do, at least for awhile to get a break. It seems that you've both
> brought each other to the edge and it's all useless anyway because we
> can't
> change another person's behavior. That's why, even though people think I'm
> losing an argument or that I'm afraid of their "superior" knowledg, I walk
> away from posts that I can see will go on and on without any conclusion.
>
> It IS a fact that people can argue for a lifetime on one issue. I know
> this
> and do not want to get into endless back and forth never getting anywhere.
Are you "Under the Law"? Without the law, you are LAWLESS and
preaching you are not under it means you preach lawlessness.
Mat 7:23 "And then I shall declare to them, 'I never knew you, depart
from Me, you who work lawlessness!'
Of the many false teachings of Christianity put forward by its
inventor Apostle Paul in the beast canon is that you are not under the
law. The classic misdirection is to say it is the "Law of Moses" but
a quick examination of the Torah shows otherwise:
Gen 26:5 because Ab_raham obeyed
Deu 4:31 "For Yahweh your Elohim is a compassionate El, He does not
Simply put:
away from it, so as to guard the commands of ???? [Yahweh] your Elohim
which I am commanding you.
The final lie of Paul is the statement:
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against
us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it
to his cross;
The Messiah refuted this claim personally:
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you,
Till heaven and earth pass,
one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law,
till all be fulfilled.
Paul had no authority to make such a claim. Heaven and earth are
still hear and many prophecies have not been fulfilled. Still, those
who worship Paul will make claims to the contrary of the Messiah.
because they believe a lie, they want you to believe a lie because
they have NO LOVE.
Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Do you love Paul or the Messiah?
Mat 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
2Co 12:16 But be it so, I did not burden you: nevertheless, being
crafty, I caught you with guile.
Paul wanted to destroy the Church of Yahweh by his own admission.
Gal 2:18 For if I build again the things which (I destroyed), I make
myself a transgressor.
We must first ask our self, "What have we destroyed by listening to
Paul?"
Pro 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and
reproofs of instruction are the way of life:
We are destroying the lamp that leads us, the light within it and the
way to our own life.
Rev 18:23 "And the light of a lamp shall not shine in you any more at
all. And the voice of bridegroom [Yehoshua] and bride [Yahweh] shall
not be heard in you any more at all. For your merchants were the great
ones of the earth, for by your sorcery all the nations were led
astray.
Shalom,
*��)
�..� �..*��) �..*�)
(�..� (�.. (Snow(.�..*��)
Snow
> What the heck are you doing? I'm asking you to take a break and you go off
> on a tangent? Just take a break, okay?
I have.. I figure that as long as Linda must stalk my post.. I'll just
toss old post in the mix so at least if anybody waste their time with
this thread they get something of value out of it:)
“For what then do you need a Saviour?”
An excellent question and one that many people lost in dogma have
resisted understanding in worship of the flesh of Messiah Yehoshua.
The scriptures of the Hebrew prophets teach us several reasons,
Yehoshua was to be the “light of the gentiles” but they have rejected
him and instead follow after a translation and collection of works.
Isa 53:11 He would see the result of the suffering of His life and be
satisfied. Through His knowledge, My righteous Servant makes many
righteous, and He bears their crookednesses.
Many do not consider that the entire reason for sending his Messiah is
simply to teach us the knowledge of Elohim and to build the
congregation of YAHWEH.
“Ambition drove many men to become false; to have one thought locked
in the breast, another ready on the tongue.”
Sallust
The prophet Isaiah said that the Messiah:
Isa 49:6 and He says, “Shall it be a small matter for You to be My
Servant to
(1) raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to
(2) bring back the preserved ones of Isra’ĕl?
(3) And I shall give You as a light to the gentiles,
(4) to be -My deliverance- to the ends of the earth!”
In this one verse, we read 4 different missions of the Messiah, the
Servant of Yahweh. This teaching is confirmed in the Good News:
Luk 2:32 a light for the unveiling of the gentiles, and the esteem of
Your people Yisra’ĕl.”
Matthew specifically says:
Mat 4:14 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the
prophet, saying,
Mat 4:16 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them
which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up. (Isa
9:2)
The understanding here should not be confused with simply being the
Flesh of Yehoshua for that ‘GREAT LIGHT’ was Yahweh, it was the
indwelling spirit that gives life. In understanding the principles of
the great light we must consider what is darkness? Of “Lucifer” the
dark branch that sees no dawn he convinces the people to ask:
Isa 14:10 “All of them respond and say to you, ‘Have you also become
as weak as we? Have you become like us?
That which makes you WEAK is darkness and with this comes illness in
the physical manifestation and eventually followed by death. Illness
after all begins in the mind and is the manifestation of that which is
in opposition to the spirit of YAHWEH our healer.
Exo 15:26 And He said, “If you diligently obey the voice of YAHWEH
your Elohim and do what is right in His eyes, and shall listen to His
commands and shall guard all His laws, I shall bring on you none of
the diseases I brought on the Mitsrites, for I am YAHWEH who heals
you.”
When we understand that it is the SPIRIT of Yahweh that heals, we
recognize to stop looking outside our own being because when we obey
the voice of Yahweh, we are connected to that infinite power.
Some people seem to have an issue with the idea of obedience to the
Torah and yet when one refers to the command, we recognize that we are
to “do what is right in his eyes”. I can’t think of any person that
would argue against doing what is right. So, in my opinion the
problem resides in how some people perceive the commands of Yahweh and
even further in dogmatic translations because at the most basic
understanding, it is the command that we do what is right and
righteous.
Almost all of Isaiah is written about the “light of the gentiles”:
Isa 60:3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the
brightness of thy rising.
So, all the people of that day and age knew that the Messiah was for
the gentiles.
Mar 2:17 When Yehoshua heard it, he said to them, “They that are whole
have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to
call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
First off, the idea that you are unable to be righteous is not true.
Yehoshua came for the SINNERS, which is to say those who transgress
the Torah of Yahweh that they might be called out of rebellion.
Luk 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Many people do not understand that he spoke in parables all the time.
When we understand that as a teacher, the messiah came to make others
strong mentally, physically and spiritually, we start to return to the
core understanding of what is Christ.
Luk 1:76 “And you, child, shall be called prophet of the Most High,
for you shall go before the face of Yahweh to prepare His ways,
Luk 1:77 to give knowledge of deliverance to His people, by the
forgiveness of their sins,
Luk 1:78 through the tender compassion of our Elohim, with which the
daybreak from on high has looked upon us,
Luk 1:79 to give light to those who sit in darkness and the shadow of
death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.”
In essence, we must learn to be like Messiah but in reality we all
need a savior at times. If you are depressed, help somebody else in
need and in this we obey the spirit.
Mat 7:12 “Therefore, whatever you wish men to do to you, do also to
them, for this is the Torah and the Prophets.”
Live your life by the golden rule and consider this:
Joh 14:20 “In that day you shall know that I am in My Father, and you
in Me, and I in you.
Joh 14:21 “He who possesses My commands and guards them, it is he who
loves Me. And he who loves Me shall be loved by My Father, and I shall
love him and manifest Myself to him.”
Guarding the commands, teaching as Yehoshua taught and taking up his
walk in life, can save and by definition makes you a savior of souls.
You can be a living example and be as the Master.
Luk 6:40 “A taught one is not above his teacher, but everyone
perfected shall be like his teacher.”
Be like the Messiah, make others strong in faith and teach forgiveness
of sins and turning the other cheek and all that he commanded.
Ultimately it is the spirit of Yahweh that is our savior and this
unlimited, all powerful spirit can be manifested according to the
Torah by obedience and belief but first… physician, heal thyself.
Respond directly:
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/messianic_Yehoshua/
Num 6:24 “Yahweh bless you and guard you;
Num 6:25 Yahweh make His face shine upon you, and show favour to you;
Num 6:26 Yahweh lift up His face upon you, and give you peace.” ’
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
Begin to see yourself as a soul with a body rather than a body with a
soul.
Wayne Dyer
Exo 20:7 “You do not bring the Name of 'Yud-Heh-Vav-Heh [translated
Yahweh] your Elohim to naught, for Yahweh does not leave the one
unpunished who brings His Name to naught.
A few can touch the magic string, and noisy fame is proud to win them:
Alas for those that never sing, but die with all their music in them!
Oliver Wendell Holmes
Don't be afraid to give your best to what seemingly are small jobs.
Every time you conquer one it makes you that much stronger. If you do
the little jobs well, the big ones will tend to take care of
themselves.
Dale Carnegie
I
> "For what then do you need a Saviour?"
That is a different question to "Do we need a Messiah?"
The two are not the same.
Snow
Food for thought... What do you see as the primary difference Mark?
I think I understand but it would be good to learn your perspective of
this...
John Gardner
"Linda Lee" <lindag...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:86ce566f-4593-4b33...@v7g2000vbd.googlegroups.com...
O
I'll take a break when she lets up with the lies, otherwise I'll
extend to he the same mercy she has shown to me, NONE.....
John Gardner
"John Gardner" <gardn...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:t4bWm.68460$de6....@newsfe21.iad...
Snow
> > Alright, Rod. Take a break, okay?
>
> I'll take a break when she lets up with the lies, otherwise I'll
> extend to he the same mercy she has shown to me, NONE.....
One thing that is nice in using the browser is that the kill file with
Linda is one click on the monkey face using Firefox:) I think it's
good that a few other voices of peace have stepped in to correct both
of us.. I'm happy to listen and ignore her ... see if it does any
good... I suppose I'll find out it doesn't when I see you responding
to her..
Elohim and God
A recent post has reminded me that people still want to pervert the
truth. For some silly reason, people have started to convert to using
the title Elohim to replace “God” and this should not be done.
Elohim does NOT mean God and I can’t be any clearer than that. Elohim
means “mighty one” and while it is used many times as a title for our
Almighty, it is not his name. You cannot replace the title Elohim
with “God” and all versions of scriptures that do this are corrupted
and useless, fit only for fire.
In scriptures we have many different Elohim’s such as Moses and Israel
as a nation as recorded:
Psa 82:6 I, I said, “You are elohim, And all of you are sons of the
Most High.
Psa 82:7 “But as men you die, And fall as one of the heads.”
It’s silly that ISR made this title to be used without capitalizing it
to say it means something different.. “You are Elohim”, simply means
that you are made mighty by Yahweh, the Elohim of Elohims.
Deu 10:17 “For [Yahweh] יהוה your Elohim is Elohim of mighty ones and
Master of masters, the great Ěl, mighty and awesome, who shows no
partiality nor takes a bribe.
We can see here that there a many “mighty ones” but only one is our
Almighty. Simply put, Elohim is a plural title that can mean many
mighty ones or even a nation of mighty ones. God is a singular word
and a complete faulty mistranltion. Somebody named Frank recently
posted:
“Jesus is Yahweh (YHWH).
Jesus is Yahweh Elohim (LORD God).”
This is a completely ignorant and blasphemous statement. He is
attempting to again blend the mistranslations with what is truly
written in Hebrew. He wants to make his belief match up but this is
the same error that has been done for 2000 years now, out of
ignorance. I don’t think Frank is evil but he is attempting out of
vanity to reason old wine and new wine together in the same flask.
Mat 9:17 “Neither do they put new wine into old wineskins, or else the
wineskins burst, and the wine is spilled, and the wineskins are
ruined. But they put new wine into fresh wineskins, and both are
preserved.”
Franks wine skin has burst. He wants to use Greek words still even
using mistranslated names for Yehoshua and maintain his old belief.
His sin is vanity. It is a vain man that is unable to recognize he is
wrong.
Joh 12:44 Then [Yehoshua] יהושע cried out and said, “He who believes
in Me, believes not in Me but in Him who sent Me.
To My brother Jonathan, John never at any point makes the false
assertion that Yehoshua was the Almighty. To the contrary as you see,
Yehoshua by John makes it clear that we do not worship his Messiah but
in (the spirit) of our heavenly Father who sent him.
Joh 4:23 “But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true
worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the
Father also does seek such to worship Him.
Joh 4:24 “Elohim is Spirit, and those who worship Him need to worship
in spirit and truth.”
The Good News of John doesn’t lead us to false worship, only
mistranslation of the word Elohim to God allows that and the two words
have entirely different meanings. We are told to put away old things
and never to return to them.. “God” is not a title I use.. period…
it’s the name of Baal.
Yehoshua is ELOHIM, just like Moses or any other mighty one but that
does not make him the Almighty.
Isa 19:20 And it shall be for a sign and for a witness to [Yahweh]
יהוה of hosts in the land of Mitsrayim. When they cry to [Yahweh] יהוה
because of the oppressors, He sends them a Saviour and an Elohim, and
shall deliver them.
Yahweh is our Savior for sending us an Elohim in Yehoshua and there is
none other.
Isa 45:21 “Declare and bring near, let them even take counsel
together. Who has announced this from of old? Who has declared it from
that time? Is it not I, יהוה? And there is no mighty one besides Me, a
righteous Ěl and a Saviour, there is none besides Me.
Isa 45:22 “Turn to Me and be saved, all you ends of the earth! For I
am Ěl, and there is none else.
We have ONE SAVIOUR in Yahweh alone who sent us his Elohim and Savior
son Yehoshua.
Hos 2:16 “And it shall be, in that day,” declares [Yahweh] יהוה, “that
you call Me [One Husband] ‘אישׁ,’ and no longer call Me ‘My Baʽal.’
Hos 2:17 “And I shall remove the names of the Baʽals from her mouth,
and they shall no more be remembered by their name.
Hos 2:18 “And in that day I shall make a covenant for them with the
beasts of the field, and with the birds of the heavens, and with the
creeping creatures of the ground, when bow, and sword, and battle I
break from the earth. And I shall make them lie down in safety.
Hos 2:19 “And I shall take you as a bride unto Me forever, and take
you as a bride unto Me in righteousness, and in right-ruling, and
kindness and compassion.
Hos 2:20 “And I shall take you as a bride unto Me in trustworthiness,
and you shall know [Yahweh] יהוה.
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua <-- my site
“Hi. It's me. I know you're out there. I know you're working as
fast as you can to catch me. I thought I should call and let you know
how things stand. I know you're real proud of this world you've built,
the way it works, all the nice little rules and such, but I've got
some bad news. I've decided to make a few changes.”
Neo – The Matrix
http://www.e-sword.net/ Free bible software
http://www.isr-messianic.org/ <- download the scriptures free
or
http://messianicyehoshua.googlegroups.com/web/RNKJV.zip <--free
download of the Restored Names King James Version
An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation,
O
> On Dec 17, 7:07 am, O <spa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> Alright, Rod. Take a break, okay?
>> I'll take a break when she lets up with the lies, otherwise I'll
>> extend to he the same mercy she has shown to me, NONE.....
>
> One thing that is nice in using the browser is that the kill file with
> Linda is one click on the monkey face using Firefox:) I think it's
> good that a few other voices of peace have stepped in to correct both
> of us.. I'm happy to listen and ignore her ... see if it does any
> good... I suppose I'll find out it doesn't when I see you responding
> to her..
>
>
In spite of the fact that the lies about me will continue,
I'll take a break. Jude is right..
Jude Alexander
"O" <spa...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:hgbemk$4ul$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
She's not gay so why do you say so?