The Tortured Rhetoric of the Reactionary Left
tianm...@gmail.com
study in why conservatives are diabolical and without conscience. The
sad reality is that conservatives are reacting in the rather
conventional manner of going on the defensive. Conservatives need to
fight back more vigorously against this community now willing to name
even Harry Truman as a war criminal alongside President Bush,
Condoleeza Rice, Vice President Cheney, and so many more good
citizens.
The reactionaries of the Left are celebrating their own unique sense
of jingoism that has come to dominate their political community since
Vietnam. In this distinct and pathological view of the world, there
is only one reality -- America's imperialism. The global human
community has ceased to exist for this reactionary community.
'America does not f***ing torture,' in the over heated words of
Shepard Smith.
For the torture reactionaries, the question can only be if America
tortures. The global concept of torture has completely been
subordinated to a view that no one tortures in the world except as a
genuine and comprehensible response to American imperialism. It is an
America in need of God's damning to paraphrase one of its unrepentant
spiritual leaders.
A more productive and comprehensive study of the question of torture
would include: Is it torture to slowly behead someone with a knife as
Musab Al Zarqawi did with American ANSWER leader's son Nicholas Berg?
Berg's father Michael robotically answered this question by telling
the world that George W. Bush killed his son-- completely consistent
with ANSWER's reactionary brainwashing. Is it torture for Saddam
Hussein and his sons to watch victims in Iraqi prisons witness the
raping of spouses or have an electric drill run into someone's ankle
bone? Is it torture to discharge an AK-47 into a woman's skull in
front of crowds at a Kabul soccer stadium?
The prolonged silence and ambivalence of the reactionary left toward
such atrocities has created a rhetorical vacuum. The reason the term
"neo-conservative" was invented by the reactionary left was to close
the door on an ugly divorce within their community between human
rights and global politics. The Left largely no longer believes in
individual human rights for people outside the United States -- with
the possible exception of individuals inside the Gaza strip. The
reason Pat Buchannan can sit alongside Keith Olberman on an MSNBC
television set is that the paleo-con and the reactionary leftist share
an ambivalence for the rights of individuals oppressed by non-American
and non-Israeli points of power. For both political stances, the
retraction of American power will lead to a world of useful silence
wherein we will simply not know or concern ourselves with inhumanity
as it may be practiced in the world. It is after all 'their
culture.' The mind numbing multiculturalism is the intellectual
sedative that has put the struggle for individual human rights to
slumber on the Left.
Noticeably missing from the discussion of whether water boarding
crosses the line from interrogation to torture is analysis of how the
decision was made. The Bush administration conducted a legal debate
within their ranks and the broader public sphere. That is the most
important principal revealed by the CIA memos and the most important
contrast principal of Obama's politics in choosing to release only one
side of that debate.
The reactionary community that fuels the Obama administration does not
believe in free and fair debate. They believe that strategic
exclusions of information constitute appropriate means for building
political power. On the other hand, within the Bush administration,
the CIA, the American media, and the public, there was a constant
debate about whether water boarding was appropriate.
There were no debates in Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Sudan, or dozens of
other countries where torture actually does take place. In sharp
contrast, the torture enjoyed by families such as the Hussein family
of Iraq, was a matter of pure impulsive indulgence and spectacle.
There was little or no notion of protecting a public sphere in Iraq.
The heads of Iraqi victims were regularly posted outside the homes of
victim's families after these spectacles were complete. The adamant
refusal of the Olbermans, Stewarts, Riches and other reactionaries to
entertain a serious conversation on global torture is one which is
veiled in their jingoistic display of the flag. This is America! We
don't torture!
The sad state of affairs was amplified in the recent 100 day press
conference. At this event, President Obama appealed to the idea that
the British refused to torture during World War II. The appeal to a
foreign government as more moral than America fits easily within
Obama's worldview. Obama and his team must have missed this gem from
the British press published in 2006 by the Guardian:
"Sherman Carroll, of the Medical Foundation for the Care of Victims of
Torture, said British authorities should also apologise and pay
compensation to survivors. "The suggestion that Britain did not use
torture during world war two and in the immediate aftermath, because
it was regarded as 'ineffective', is a mythology that has been
successfully propagated for decades," he said. "The fact that it took
place should be acknowledged.
. . . Others interrogated at the same prison, at Bad Nenndorf, near
Hanover, included Nazis, prominent German industrialists of the Hitler
era, and former members of the SS. At least two men suspected of
being communists were starved to death, at least one was beaten to
death, others suffered serious illness or injuries, and many lost toes
to frostbite.
The appalling treatment of the 372 men and 44 women who were
interrogated at Bad Nenndorf between 1945 and 1947 are detailed in a
report by a Scotland Yard detective, Inspector Tom Hayward."
Obama's misstatement is symptomatic of the community from which he
draws his arguments -- reactionary and shallow. The British actually
used brutal tactics against Nazis and other rivals in World War II --
including thumbscrews and shinscrews -- and continue to use techniques
that most US officials would blanche at in fighting terrorists such as
the IRA during the 1980s. Obama's slick answer is typical wishful
thinking from the reactionary left which only allows itself to
consider American and Israeli roles in torturing the innocent. It is
intrinsic to the close mindedness that has descended on the Left
regarding human rights as a global struggle.
The circularity of the reactionary Left's worldview is one that not
only condones torture but encourages it. It is a circularity that
helped America look away from the torture of the Khmer Rouge after
Vietnam. It helped Clinton look away from Africa after Mogadishu when
Hutus took up machetes against their brothers and sisters in Rwanda.
It is a view that helps genocide expert and Obama administration aide,
Samantha Power see a "monster" in Hillary Clinton when she threatened
Obama's path to power, but now she sees an acceptable sovereign seated
in Khartoum. The Obama administration would do well to look at the
recent example of Democratic congressional members arrested at the
Sudanese embassy and less to the shrill jingoism of Code Pink, ANSWER,
and Michael Moore. The insular jingoistic view of torture held by the
reactionary left is killing us all.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/the_tortured_rhetoric_of_the_r.html
Spartakus
> http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/the_tortured_rhetoric_of_the_r...
This guy is out of his fucking gourd. Why did you bother posting his
tripe?
obamao.sux....@gmail.com
Not only do YOU not even have a "guard", you don't have conscience -
the definition of a Liberal Fascist Neo-Commie.
Clave
news:8afa6989-f12a-4f26...@o14g2000vbo.googlegroups.com...
<...>
> ...Liberal Fascist...
Heh. Wearing your ignorance like a badge.
Jim
Kevin Cunningham
> The reactionary left has descended upon waterboarding as its new case
> study in why conservatives are diabolical and without conscience. The
> sad reality is that conservatives are reacting in the rather
> conventional manner of going on the defensive. Conservatives need to
> fight back more vigorously against this community now willing to name
> even Harry Truman as a war criminal alongside President Bush,
> Condoleeza Rice, Vice President Cheney, and so many more good
> citizens.
>
(crap snipped)
The fact is you repugs used and supported torture. The same torture
we put Japanese in jail for.
Hypocrites.
maxw...@my-deja.com
I think it is absolutely disgusting that a few enlisted
service members were given dishonorable discharges
and spent time in military prisons all because of the
decisions made by other un-named individuals.
Spartakus
> > >http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/the_tortured_rhetoric_of_the_r...
If you don't understand the situation regarding torture, you are
refusing to learn.
dogbertm...@gmail.com
clinically insane from suppressing and/or dancing around the basic
rules of logic and evidence. That his position is rapidly losing
support does not seem to keep his reality check from bouncing.
dogbertm...@gmail.com
As usual, trying to justify torture by what some barbarians do in
other countries.
First, it's well-established that torture took place. It is also well-
established that the US military ruled dozens of deaths in Bagram as
homicides. There is no disputing these easily-accessed facts from
their direct sources.
It is also well-established that the US prosecuted and punished
Japanese military leaders and soldiers for torture for waterboarding
our soldiers during World War II. It's also well-established that
waterboarding is, as a matter of law, torture, despite some pathetic
attempts to re-define the law which hold no legal weight or authority
and violate prior treaty obligations such as the Geneva Convention.
Moreover, and perhaps most damning, torture is worthless for gaining
intelligence. Even the Nazis stopped doing it because it generates so
much false intelligence. It's simply a fact that torture is primarily
useful for extracting false confessions (which were gotten by the
thousands as many "witches" confessed to their "witchcraft" during the
Inquisition.) The tortured person simply tells the interrogator what
he thinks they want to hear based on the line of questioning, to make
it stop.
In fact, torture was used extensively to "prove" that Iraq had WMDs
that they didn't have. The faulty intelligence gathered this was was
at best misleading and at worst deliberate propaganda to sell an war
for political reasons.
At any rate, only a creep would defend US behavior at Abu Grahib or
Bagram. Only an un-American with no clue what our values are.
dogbertm...@gmail.com
> There were no debates in Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Sudan, or dozens of
> other countries where torture actually does take place. In sharp
> contrast, the torture enjoyed by families such as the Hussein family
> of Iraq, was a matter of pure impulsive indulgence and spectacle.
> There was little or no notion of protecting a public sphere in Iraq.
> The heads of Iraqi victims were regularly posted outside the homes of
> victim's families after these spectacles were complete.
There was no debate here either. The perps hid behind secrecy and did
their level best to prevent we, the people, from ever learning about
the torture (in at least one comprehensively documented case, totally
innocent person tortured to death by the US.) Lying creeps Cheney
and Bush, Rumsfeldt, et. al. painted the embarassing actions at Abu
Grahib as the actions of a few "bad apples", and let them go to prison
for following their Administration's orders. What can you say about
these dishonorable men except they are liars and criminals?
As far as "they did it!" as a defense for committing a crime, that's
just childish. To follow Obamasux's idiotic logic, if radical
religious nuts cut off the head of an American, then we ought to start
capturing civilians and killing them too.
I'm sure the next step is "Well, the Nazis did it, so we can too."
Bleh. What a childish morally deficient idiot this Obamasux is.
~ RHF
> sux.donki.dix...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Spartakus<sparta...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > > tianmei...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/the_tortured_rhetoric_of_the_r...
> > > This guy is out of his fucking gourd. Why did you bother posting his
> > > tripe?
> > Not only do YOU not even have a "guard", you don't have conscience -
> > the definition of a Liberal Fascist Neo-Commie.
>
- you are refusing to learn.
Spartakus,
Would "You" Torture A Terrorist To Save The Lives
Of Your Family and Loved Ones ?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/4c5b1437406d3851
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/ff04cbafa70bfbdb
.
.
dave
I think the guy is great. Reminds me of Joe Pyne and Wally George.
Gary Forbis
> Would "You" Torture A Terrorist To Save The Lives
> Of Your Family and Loved Ones ?
Would you cut off your left arm to save the lives of your
family and loved ones? Do you still have your left arm?
If so then do you have any family and loved ones?
One stupid hypothetical deserves another.
Are your blinders of your own making?
Vid...@tcq.net
> On Tue, 5 May 2009 05:17:28 -0700 (PDT), Gary Forbis
>
> You beat me to it.
look what happened as soon as the democrats got in and stopped
torture.
according to rightards everything that has happened to america in the
last 2 years was the fault of the democrats, snicker, only a nut cases
believe that, but, if that is the case the democrats won the war with
islam Says Leading Geopolitical Analyst
click on the link for the video.
West Has Already Won War with Islam, Says Leading Geopolitical Analyst
Posted Apr 30, 2009 07:30am EDT by Aaron Task in Newsmakers
Related: ^DJI, ^GSPC, SPY, DIA, EEM, TUR
With the Taliban on the march in Pakistan, Osama bin Laden still
unaccounted for, attacks against U.S. troops in Iraq rising again and
Afghanistan a quagmire, it would seem the war against jihadist Islam
is only accelerating in intensity.
But what if it's already all over but the shouting?
"It is debatable whether the U.S. has actually won the U.S.-jihadist
war - but it has certainly achieved its strategic goals," - preventing
another 9/11 and avoiding jihadist uprising in the Arab world, George
Friedman, founder of STRATFOR, writes in his latest book The Next 100
Years. "The U.S. has succeeded, not so much in winning the war as in
preventing the Islamists from winning and, from a geopolitical
perspective, that is good enough."
Friedman expands up this theory in the accompany video, where we
discuss the following:
• What he calls the "fundamental weakness" of the Muslim world.
• The likely endgame in Afghanistan, where he says the U.S. "cannot
win."
• The potential for a jihadist uprising in Turkey, which Friedman
sees as one of the great regional powers of the 21st Century.
• The likelihood of Pakistan falling into Taliban control, if it
hasn't already.
• The "real" meaning of Iran's rhetorical threats.
• Whether Bin Laden is better captured and put on trial, dead, or
alive and isolated. And whether Al Qaeda is still able to carry out
major terrorist attacks today.
Beam Me Up Scotty
>
> You beat me to it.
Ask Obama, then you'll know if you want to live in NYC.
Beam Me Up Scotty
> On May 5, 1:00 am, "~ RHF" <rhf-newsgro...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>> Would "You" Torture A Terrorist To Save The Lives
>> Of Your Family and Loved Ones ?
>
> Would you cut off your left arm to save the lives of your
> family and loved ones?
Sounds reasonable to me.
There is a guy who cut his own hand off to save himself. Would he have
done it so he could save his family? You need to ask him, he has
experience cutting off limbs.
I wouldn't hesitate.
Would you get in a box and go careening down hills at 10 times your
natural speed to get food to feed your children?
Think about it when you climb into your car to go to work.
Vid...@tcq.net
> destabilized South Asia and the Middle east. It's directly responsible
> for the mess sin Pakistan where we need to fear radical muslims
> getting control of a nuclear arsenal. It's expanded Iranian influence
> in the region, and radicalized vast swathes of Islam. And this after
> we had virtual total world support after 9-11.
>
> His hubris will cost us for generations.
all of that is correct.
Billy Burpelson
> Bush Iraq war and it's shifted focus away from Afghanistan totally
> destabilized South Asia and the Middle east. It's directly responsible
> for the mess in Pakistan where we need to fear radical muslims
> getting control of a nuclear arsenal. It's expanded Iranian influence
> in the region, and radicalized vast swathes of Islam. And this after
> we had virtual total world support after 9-11.
>
> His hubris will cost us for generations.
As always, Heckuva job, Georgie...and thanks for the wonderful legacy.
~ RHF
GF - If You would Give You Life for Your Family
and Loved Ones : What Is An Arm ? ~ RHF
.
The Answers are either a simple : Yes -or- No
.
~ RHF
> On Tue, 5 May 2009 05:17:28 -0700 (PDT), Gary Forbis
>
-
- You beat me to it.
RG - Just How Does Commiting a Terrorist Act
and Killing Tens of Thousands or Millions of
Innocent Human Beings =Equate To= "You"
Torture A (One) Terrorist To Save The Lives
Of Your Family and Loved Ones ?
.
OH YEAH TORTURED LIBERAL LOGIC !
.
The Answer is either a simple : Yes -or- No
.
~ RHF
> On May 5, 11:09 am, retrogro...@comcast.net wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Tue, 5 May 2009 05:17:28 -0700 (PDT), Gary Forbis
>
> > <forbisga...@msn.com> wrote:
> > >On May 5, 1:00 am, "~ RHF" <rhf-newsgro...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> > >> Would "You" Torture A Terrorist To Save The Lives
> > >> Of Your Family and Loved Ones ?
>
> > >Would you cut off your left arm to save the lives of your
> > >family and loved ones? Do you still have your left arm?
> > >If so then do you have any family and loved ones?
>
> > >One stupid hypothetical deserves another.
> > >Are your blinders of your own making?
>
> > Would you blow up a nuclear bomb in NYC to save your family?
>
> > You beat me to it.
>
> look what happened as soon as the democrats got in and stopped
> torture.
>
> according to rightards everything that has happened to america in the
> last 2 years was the fault of the democrats, snicker, only a nut cases
> believe that, but, if that is the case the democrats won the war with
> islam Says Leading Geopolitical Analyst
>
> click on the link for the video.
>
>
> West Has Already Won War with Islam, Says Leading Geopolitical Analyst
> Posted Apr 30, 2009 07:30am EDT by Aaron Task in Newsmakers
> Related: ^DJI, ^GSPC, SPY, DIA, EEM, TUR
> With the Taliban on the march in Pakistan, Osama bin Laden still
> unaccounted for, attacks against U.S. troops in Iraq rising again and
> Afghanistan a quagmire, it would seem the war against jihadist Islam
> is only accelerating in intensity.
> But what if it's already all over but the shouting?
> "It is debatable whether the U.S. has actually won the U.S.-jihadist
> war
- but it has certainly achieved its strategic goals,"
- preventing another 9/11 and
Preventing another 9/11 Attack on US Soil is at
best a short-term Strategic Goal that is measured
one day at a time until the next Mega Attack and
these Terrorist Attacks may occur Decades Apart
because for the Islam-O-Fascist Terrorist the
Propaganda Value of these Attacks lasts for Years
and Decades; and they believe that their Jihad is
for their Lifetimes and Generations to come.
The reality is that the Islamists the Jihad Against
'The West' and Christianity is a Hundred Year War
that is renewed each Century.
Only a Fool Thinks that the Jihadists have given-up.
The Jihadist would very much like it for The West
to think that it has given-up and have The West to
Let It Guard Down.
- avoiding jihadist uprising in the Arab world,
Jihadism is still very much alive in the Arab World
and is a significant Faction of Islam in all areas of
the Globe where Islam is a Major Religion.
Only a Fool Thinks that the Jihad is Dead in the
Arab World and across the Globe.
For the Jihadist each Islamic Country is a potential
Afghanistan and only a decade away from becoming
a Religious State Committed to Jihad for all Eternity.
Generally for Muslims living within Predomitly Islamic
Countries the numbers roll-out to be :
* 3%~5% say that they would Do Jihad Against
"The West" : Become Fighters and Wage War.
* 25%~33% say that they Believe Jihad Against
"The West" is a Just Act under Islam; and Justified.
* 17%~22% say that they would Support Jihad Against
"The West" with Money; Aid, Shelter, Food and Supplies.
Clearly Jihad is Alive And Well In Islam -and-
Only Fools Think Otherwise. ~ RHF {ibid}
~ RHF
> On Tue, 5 May 2009 14:54:25 -0700 (PDT), "~ RHF"
>
- - <rhf-newsgro...@pacbell.net> wrote:
- - RG - Just How Does Committing a Terrorist Act
- - and Killing Tens of Thousands or Millions of
- - Innocent Human Beings =Equate To= "You"
- - Torture A (One) Terrorist To Save The Lives
- - Of Your Family and Loved Ones ?
- Torture is terrorism.
After the 9/11 Attacks Terrorism has taken on
a new dimension that goes way beyond an
Individual inflecting Pain-and-Suffering on an
Individual. Terrorism is now expanded to the
Mass Murder of Thousands / Milllions; that was
only previously thought possible in War or a
Natural Disaster.
- If you want to create hypothetically that allow
- it for you, have at it.
- All it shows is a vivid imagination and a lack of morals.
So Liberal & Democrats Believe that it is OK
"Moral" to let your Family and Friends and
Loved Ones Die : When you could have 'possibly'
prevented it from happening to them.
RG - The Logic and Justification is always :
The Pain and Suffering {One Life} of a Terrorist
for the Lives of Thousands, Tens of Thousands
or Millions of Innocent Human Beings.
The 'basic' Question Remains Would "You"
Torture A (One) Terrorist To Save The Lives
Of Your Family and Loved Ones ?
The 'base' Human "Gut" Answer is either a
simple : Yes -or- No ~ RHF
.
.
Vid...@tcq.net
their largest recruiting tool is about to face charges because ronald
reagan understood what torture does to a country that is its
recipient, and the country that is the perp.
man, conservatives are the most god awful stupidest people on the
planet. its a treaty we entered into under the republican party.
federal treaties become the law of the land.
By giving its advice and consent to ratification of this Convention,
the Senate of the United States will demonstrate unequivocally our
desire to bring an end to the abhorrent practice of torture. RONALD
REAGAN
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1079/is_n2137_v88/ai_6742034/
U.S. signs UN convention against torture
US Department of State Bulletin , August, 1988
• 1
Following are the President's message to the Senate and the text of
the Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading
Treatment or Punishment signed on behalf of the United States by
Deputy Secretary of State John C. Whitehead on April 18, 1988, at the
United Nations. The United States became the 63d nation to sign the
convention, which was adopted by the UN General Assembly in December
1984 and entered into force on June 26, 198 7, after it was ratified
by 20 nations.
MESSAGE TO THE SENATE, MAY 20, 1988.sup.1
With a view to receiving the advice and consent of the Senate to
ratification, subject to certain reservations, understandings, and
declarations, I transmit herewith the Convention against Torture and
Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment. The
Convention was adopted by unanimous agreement of the United Nations
General Assembly on December 10, 1984, and entered into force on June
26, 1987. The United States signed it on April 18, 1988. 1 also
transmit, for the information of the Senate, the report of the
Department of State on the Convention.
The United States participated actively and effectively in the
negotiation of the Convention . It marks a significant step in the
development during this century of international measures against
torture and other inhuman treatment or punishment. Ratification of
the
Convention by the United States will clearly express United States
opposition to torture, an abhorrent practice unfortunately still
prevalent in the world today.
The core provisions of the Convention establish a regime for
international cooperation in the criminal prosecution of torturers
relying on so-called "universal jurisdiction." Each State Party is
required either to prosecute torturers who are found in its territory
or to extradite them to other countries for prosecution.
In view of the large number of States concerned, it was not possible
to negotiate a treaty that was acceptable to the United States in all
respects. Accordingly, certain reservations, understandings, and
declarations have been drafted, which are discussed in the report of
the Department of State. With the inclusion of these reservations,
understandings, and declarations, I believe there are no
constitutional or other legal obstacles to United States
ratification,
The recommended legislation necessary to implement the Convention
will
be submitted to the Congress separately.
Should the Senate give its advice and consent to ratification of the
Convention, I intend at the time of deposit of United States
ratification to make a declaration pursuant to Article 28 that the
United States does not recognize the competence of the Committee
against Torture under Article 20 to make confidential investigations
of charges that torture is being systematically practiced in the
United States. In addition, I intend not to make declarations,
pursuant to Articles 21 and 22 of the Convention, recognizing the
competence of the Committee against Torture to receive and consider
communications from States and individuals alleging that the United
States is violating the Convention. I believe that a final United
States decision as to whether to accept such competence of the
Committee should be withheld until we have had an opportunity to
assess the Committee's work. It would be possible for the United
States in the future to accept the competence of the Committee
pursuant to Articles 20, 21, and 22, should experience with the
Committee prove satisfactory and should the United States consider
this step desirable.
By giving its advice and consent to ratification of this Convention,
the Senate of the United States will demonstrate unequivocally our
desire to bring an end to the abhorrent practice of torture.
RONALD REAGAN
TEXT OF CONVENTION2
Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading
Treatment or Punishment
The States Parties to this Convention,
Considering that, in accordance with the principles proclaimed in the
Charter of the United Nations, recognition of the equal and
inalienable rights of all members of the human family in the
foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world,
Recognizing that those rights derive from the inherent dignity of the
human person,
Considering the obligation of States under the Charter, in particular
Article 55, to promote universal respect for, and observance of,
human
rights and fundamental freedoms,
Having regard to Article 5 of the Universal Declaration of Human
Rights and article 7 of the International Covenant on Civil and
Political Rights, both of which provide that no one shall be
subjected
to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.
Having regard also to the Declaration on the Protection of All
Persons
from Being Subjected to Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading
Treatment or Punishment, adopted by the General Assembly on 9
December
1975.
Desiring to make more effective the struggle against torture and
other
cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment throughout the
world.
• 1
• 2
• 3
• 4
• 5
• 6
• 7
• 8
• 9
• 10
• …
• 12
Vid...@tcq.net
> On Tue, 5 May 2009 14:54:25 -0700 (PDT), "~ RHF"
>
> >RG - Just How Does Commiting a Terrorist Act
> >and Killing Tens of Thousands or Millions of
> >Innocent Human Beings =Equate To= "You"
> >Torture A (One) Terrorist To Save The Lives
> >Of Your Family and Loved Ones ?
>
> it for you, have at it. All it shows is a vivid imagination and a
> lack of morals.
the idiot gets that crap from 24, he is incapable of understanding
what he is parroting. he has no thoughts of his own, let alone any
morals.
dave
>
> So Liberal & Democrats Believe that it is OK
> "Moral" to let your Family and Friends and
> Loved Ones Die : When you could have 'possibly'
> prevented it from happening to them.
>
What profits a man who gains the world but loses his soul?
~ RHF
- Desiring to make more effective the struggle
- against torture and other cruel, inhuman or
- degrading treatment or punishment throughout
- the world.
VIDE - So 'You' are clearly against Torture
and therefore naturally you are also against :
The Death Penalty & Abortion & Partial Birth
Abortion & Life In Prison . . .
nah would be to consistent and morally logical ~ RHF
.
.
Would "You" Torture A Terrorist To Save The Lives
Of Your Family and Loved Ones ?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/4c5b1437406d3851
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/ff04cbafa70bfbdb
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/ec110bc66d44df98
* The 'basic' Question Remains Would "You"
Torture A (One) Terrorist To Save The Lives
Of Your Family and Loved Ones ?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/fae5218402f4cc7d
* The 'base' Human "Gut" Answer is either a
simple : Yes -or- No ~ RHF
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/b2bc69275e93679e
.
Jihad Is Alive And Well In Islam -and- Only Fools Think Otherwise
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/83906a9ab86c6829
* Islam's Biggest Recruiting Tool is the Teachings
of Islam and the Promoting of the Concept of Jihad.
* The Fact that 'The Non-Islamic West' is 'The West'
and Non-Islamic "Infidels" Non-Believers.
* The Fact that Christians, Jews, Hindus, etc are
Not Muslims and therefore Targets for Jihad; since
they all are Non-Islamic "Infidels" Non-Believers
and must be subjugated to Islamic Rule.
* The Fact that Every Day Muslims Kill More Muslims
in the Name of Allah {Jihad Within Islam} because
'they' are not the right kind of Muslims.
* * Then Muslims Kill Westerners, Christians, Jews, etc.
* * Then Westerners, Christians, Jews, etc Kill Muslims.
.
.
> REAGANhttp://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1079/is_n2137_v88/ai_6742034/
Vid...@tcq.net
> - Vide...@tcq.net wrote:
>
> - Desiring to make more effective the struggle
> - against torture and other cruel, inhuman or
> - degrading treatment or punishment throughout
> - the world.
>
> VIDE - So 'You' are clearly against Torture
> and therefore naturally you are also against :
> The Death Penalty & Abortion & Partial Birth
> Abortion & Life In Prison . . .
>
> nah would be to consistent and morally logical ~ RHF
> .
> .
Beam Me Up Scotty
>
>> RG - Just How Does Commiting a Terrorist Act
>> and Killing Tens of Thousands or Millions of
>> Innocent Human Beings =Equate To= "You"
>> Torture A (One) Terrorist To Save The Lives
>> Of Your Family and Loved Ones ?
>
>
> it for you, have at it. All it shows is a vivid imagination and a
> lack of morals.
Brenda Ann
<Vid...@tcq.net> wrote in message
news:9cb7d673-8036-4aa6...@g19g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
I, personally, am against torture, the death penalty, abortion for any
purpose other than saving the life of the mother. I am for life
imprisonment. I feel that is a just punishment for murder, rape, etc.
dave
Nagasaki????????????????????
Kevin Cunningham
The answer is that torture doesn't work. The answer is that you,
personally, want to watch. You get your rocks off by hearing about
torture. You are a coward.
But so what, you want to watch other people being tortured. Not that
torture ever reveals anything, how many witches got burned do you
think? How many satanists?
The fact is that all the persons involved in torture are criminally
culpable. The fact that they won't be brought to trial shows what
prosecutorial discretion is.
John Barnard
Conservative logic - Torture works.
http://catherinemacivor.com/2009/04/24/top-interrogator-torture-does-not-work/
Gisle Vanem
> Conservative logic - Torture works.
>
> http://catherinemacivor.com/2009/04/24/top-interrogator-torture-does-not-work/
Such primitive torture techniques described above and elsewhere belong to
the medieval ages. The perfect torture is such that doesn't leave any physical
evidence in forms of scares, burn-marks, destroyed lungs from water-boarding
or crippled legs from beating the feet. The perfect torture doesn't leave any physical
evidence, but rather a big scare on the soul of the victim. He/she is turned into a
human wreck without any obvious reason a doctor/therapist can relate to. There
are many obvious way make a subject psychically destroyed. Rape is a well know
technique that leaves the victim in state of a shock and trembling. Their whole believe
system becomes shattered. Their sense of honour gets crushed. Image how a Muslim
would feel being raped in the ass by a pig!
I dare not think about the modern techniques of psychological brain-wash and torture
the FSB (former KGB), NSAX [1] or even the Chinese are using today. They probably use
it remotely by some devilish laser-rays or neuron-rays. Has anybody really wondered
what all these low-orbiting satellites are doing up there. I'm sure they are there not just
for surveillance. These satellites are from 50km up and should have no problem reading
right over your shoulder and administer head-pain in anyone they care to torture.
My point is that these smarter agencies can administer torture from anywhere and to any
person living in a daily situation. The subject may not even be aware of the torture being
administered. One of the objectives of such torture would be to get the subject to feel
psychotic, mentally drained for live-force and in the ultimate end commit suicide. You see.
No evidence of torture. The coroner would have a slam-dunk case, but the ultimate goal
of the torturer would be obtained w/o compromising itself.
Are these techniques just science-fiction or are they being used today? I guess yes.
But how does one prove it. Duh, we can't; these techniques are a very well kept secret
of these agencies
[1] A supposedely super-secret US spy-agency that even the US president isn't aware.
These guys are answering to no one and get their funding from some secret channel.
The Iran-Contras case should be peanuts in comparison.
--gv
~ RHF
~ RHF
- i am not for right wing demagoguery.
So that does not exclude 'demagoguery' as
a whole; and since you specified 'ring-wing' :
One could conclude that you were FOR
Left-Wing {Liberal} Demagoguery.
vide - but i think just about everyone here
knew that already ~ RHF
.
.
~ RHF
>
> news:9cb7d673-8036-4aa6...@g19g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
> On May 5, 7:39 pm, "~ RHF" <rhf-newsgro...@pacbell.net> wrote:> - Vide...@tcq.net wrote:
>
> > - Desiring to make more effective the struggle
> > - against torture and other cruel, inhuman or
> > - degrading treatment or punishment throughout
> > - the world.
>
> > VIDE - So 'You' are clearly against Torture
> > and therefore naturally you are also against :
> > The Death Penalty & Abortion & Partial Birth
> > Abortion & Life In Prison . . .
>
> > nah would be to consistent and morally logical ~ RHF
> > .
> > .
>
> i am not for right wing demagoguery.
>
- torture,
- the death penalty,
- abortion for any purpose other than saving the life of the mother.
-
- I am for life imprisonment.
- I feel that is a just punishment for murder, rape, etc.
BAD It is good to see that you know what
you are 'For' and 'Against' and can answer
with a simple 'Yes' or 'No' ~ RHF
.
.
~ RHF
- - ~ RHF wrote:
- - So Liberal & Democrats Believe that it is OK
- - "Moral" to let your Family and Friends and
- - Loved Ones Die : When you could have 'possibly'
- - prevented it from happening to them.
- What profits a man who gains the world but loses his soul?
Dave - What profits a man who Save His Family and Friends
{Retains His World} -but- Tortures and/or Kills a Terrorist
He has a World with his Family and Friends
in it; and the Understanding and Forgiveness
of God{Allah} - Amen ~ RHF
.
.
~ RHF
- Oh his religion is as faux as the rest of his "values".
RG - Keep Preaching That "Hate"
Against Persons of Faith. ~ RHF
.
.
~ RHF
Dog..com> wrote:
> retrogro...@comcast.net wrote:
> > On Tue, 5 May 2009 14:54:25 -0700 (PDT), "~ RHF"
> > <rhf-newsgro...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> >> RG - Just How Does Commiting a Terrorist Act
> >> and Killing Tens of Thousands or Millions of
> >> Innocent Human Beings =Equate To= "You"
> >> Torture A (One) Terrorist To Save The Lives
> >> Of Your Family and Loved Ones ?
>
- - If you want to create hypothetically that allow
- - it for you, have at it.
- - All it shows is a vivid imagination and a lack
- - of morals.
- (D)Harry Truman - Terrorist - ??????????????????
The Democrats Can't Get Any Greater Act of TERROR
than "The Buck Stops Here" Harry Truman [P-D] :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Truman
Ordering the Dropping of Nuclear Bombs on Japan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki
.
.
~ RHF
Another Liberal Lie and Democrat Distortion :
Since what is now being called Torture did
help prevent a 9/11 type Attack on LA.
- The answer is that you, personally, want to watch.
KC - If you had ever saw a Family Member, a Friend
or Loved One In-Pain and Suffering : You Would Not
Want To Watch [.]
- You get your rocks off by hearing about torture.
KC - Typical Liberal-Fascist Thinking Torture = Sex.
- You are a coward.
KC - 'coward'
- - - = = = RHF's Canned Reply 'Rant' = = = - - -
[>: To Liberal-Fascist Name Calling :<]
ROTFL - You Know When You Are Winning An Argument :
When a Super-Smart 'Enlightened" Liberal Starts Name Calling*.
* They Lose Their Ability To Think And Get Emotional - rotfl ~ RHF
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/318979fbe8546cfa
.
typical liberal-fascist thinking with respect to other
human beings who do not bow-down to them ~ RHF
- But so what, you want to watch other people being tortured.
KC -clearly- Your 'projections' -wrt- my mental
reasoning and motives; are in-fact a mirror of
your own Psyche with your repeated allusions
to 'watching' and 'sex'.
- Not that torture ever reveals anything,
- how many witches got burned do you
> think? How many satanists?
KC - Not talking about 'witches' or 'satinists'
unless you personally know of some who have
recently been 'burned' here i the USA.
We are Talking about Islam-O-Fascist Terrorists
who plan Terrorist Attacks like 9/11 and Kill
Thousands of Innocent People Men, Women
and Children.
- The fact is that all the persons involved in torture
- are criminally culpable. The fact that they won't
- be brought to trial shows what prosecutorial
- discretion is.
KC -fwiw- Personally I 'think' that both Bush and
Cheney should be Accountable; and Said They
Asked For The Legal Advisements On What
Constitutes Torture : State That They Gave The
Orders; and Name The Names of The Members
of the US Congress Who Either Gave The OK
or Their Passive Approval to what is now being
Called Torture After-the-Fact by many of those
same Members of the US Congress.
Pelosi & Reid & Biden + Et Al
Former us president GW Bush and former vp
Dick Cheney need to Stand-Up before the US
Congress On TV and Start Name Names.
.
.
~ RHF
- Conservative logic - Torture works.
-
- http://catherinemacivor.com/2009/04/24/top-interrogator-torture-does-...
Simple Logic {Neither Liberal-or-Conservative :
The Proper Integration Techniques Usually Work
The Question Remains . . .
What Is A Proper Integration Technique ? -and- What Is Torture ?
.
clearly 'beheading' {murder} does not get you
the answers you want ~ RHF
.
Who i$ John Galt
Liberal Logic - outing CIA agents is OK unless it's Valerye Plame.
Liberal Logic - Clinton Assassinating Usama Bin laden is OK but Bush
Waterboarding Bin Laden is a crime against humanity.
dave
You don't get it. You are willing to throw the country away to save
your own; that is not patriotism. The USA does not torture. That is a
core value.
��Treat them with humanity, and let them have no reason to complain of
our copying the brutal example of the British Army in their treatment of
our unfortunate brethren who have fallen into their hands,� he wrote. In
all respects the prisoners were to be treated no worse than American
soldiers; and in some respects, better. Through this approach,
Washington sought to shame his British adversaries, and to demonstrate
the moral superiority of the American cause.�
In the worst of times � when foreign troops literally occupied American
soil, torturing and murdering American patriots � and few believed that
the cause of the revolution could ultimately win against the might of
the British Empire, the first Commander in Chief of the U.S.A. set the
precedent that this society is to lead even our enemies by �benignant
sympathy of [our] example.� To win the war against the occupying army of
Redcoats, the American revolutionaries needed right on their side."
http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2007/12/24/george-washington-no-torture-on-my-watch/
dave
before Condi first gave the word to start torturing. This from official
Bush Administration timelines.
If you weren't so gung-ho to defend the undefensible you might bother to
learn the truth.
Gary Forbis
It is? What CIA agents were outed for political purposes that
Liberals
did not decry?
> Liberal Logic - Clinton Assassinating Usama Bin laden is OK but Bush
> Waterboarding Bin Laden is a crime against humanity.
Some of this is just verbiage. Would you use the word "assassinating"
in relationship to what a swat team does to a hostage holding bank
robber? The distinction between appropriate and inappropriate use
of force is quite important.
~ RHF
- The distinction between appropriate and
- inappropriate use of force is quite important.
The Question Becomes : Is Torture Defined By The Use of Force ?
Not To The Person Who Is The Subject Of The Use
Of Physical Force and/or Emotional Trauma Which
Results In Pain, Suffering and/or Their Death.
.
.
Wikking
The Neocons want to pretend there was never a Nuremberg trial, never a
Geneva Convention, never a rebuttal of the "Orders are Orders (Befehl
ist befehl) defence. They also want to ignore the fact that the Nazi
judiciary itself was put on trial at Nuremberg for legalizing torture
and cruel and unusual punishment as depicted in the movie Judgement at
Nuremburg. They want to pretend its all debatable.
--
}(:
Note to Rightwing Extremists:
When you get to your new Gettysburg, don't expect Rush, Hannity,
Perry, Goldberg or O'Reilly to be on the field with you or leading
Pickett's Charge. They won't be. They will be way at the back out of
harm's way.
Wikking
> On Thu, 07 May 2009 11:50:21 -0400, Wikking <Wik.King!@yahoo.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> The Neocons want to pretend there was never a Nuremberg trial, never a
>> Geneva Convention, never a rebuttal of the "Orders are Orders (Befehl
>> ist befehl) defence. They also want to ignore the fact that the Nazi
>> judiciary itself was put on trial at Nuremberg for legalizing torture
>> and cruel and unusual punishment as depicted in the movie Judgement at
>> Nuremburg. They want to pretend its all debatable.
>
Totally rebutted at Nuremberg. Gonzalez and the Neocons were trying to
turn the US into a third world banana republic with a south american
dictator in charge. That "permanent GOP majority".... HAHAHAHA!
~ RHF
> On Thu, 7 May 2009 03:10:46 -0700 (PDT), "~ RHF"
>
>
>
> <rhf-newsgro...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >On May 5, 6:55 pm, retrogro...@comcast.net wrote:
> >> On Tue, 05 May 2009 17:23:51 -0700, dave <d...@dave.dave> wrote:
> >> >~ RHF wrote:
>
> >> >> So Liberal & Democrats Believe that it is OK
> >> >> "Moral" to let your Family and Friends and
> >> >> Loved Ones Die : When you could have 'possibly'
> >> >> prevented it from happening to them.
>
> >> >What profits a man who gains the world but loses his soul?
>
> >- Oh his religion is as faux as the rest of his "values".
>
- - Against Persons of Faith. ~ RHF
- Damn another irony meter blown to hell by an American Taleban.
RG -fyi-it's- Taliban
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban
.
Typical Liberal-Fascist Name-and-Blame Political
Tactic {Propaganda} to Label and Call Any American
that does not Agree with Them as American-Taliban
http://moose-and-squirrel.com/bozo/bozo.html
http://perrspectives.com/features/Taliban.htm
http://adultthought.ucsd.edu/Culture_War/The_American_Taliban.html
RG - Once Again You Have Proven Yourself
To Be An Obama-Speaker©
.
However there was in-fact one real American-Taliban
by the name of John Walker Lindh -aka- Sulayman
al-Faris, who must be sort of US Senator Barbara
Boxer's [D-CA] Hometown Hero.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Walker_Lindh
http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/people/shows/walker/profile.html
.
You remind me again how the O-Bomb-sters©
DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano has labeled
returning American Iraqi War Veterans as
'potential' Terrorists.
Congratulations Americans, Janet Napolitano
Has Pre-Qualified You As A Terrorist
-or-
Congratulations US Veterans, Janet Napolitano
Has Pre-Qualified You As A Terrorist
.
The O-Bomb-sters© DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano
http://www.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?GUID=5CF8AA40-8C53-4B00-A47F-5A7C49A21CDE
Janet Napolitano - Secretary of DHS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janet_Napolitano
"Liberal-Fascism" {Napolitanoism©}
.
Napolitanoism© {Liberal-Fascism} - Obama-Regime's©
U.S. Phone Intercepts {Wire Taps} Go Beyond Legal Limits --- Reuters
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/590dd166bec55cf9
.
The ObamaNation© Creating a Culture of Joblessness and Dependency
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/244b71e8dcd31438
.
Elite Liberal-Fascist Thinking -versus-
Common Sense American Thinking
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/b682b926df32cc6f
.
FOX News on the TV and Radio :
Give The People {Customers} What They Want {and Need}
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/7dfa7b4244e8c91b
.
Hello Americans - Janet Napolitano Thanks You for
Your Newsgroup Comments and Has Pre-Qualified
You As A 'Potential' Terrorist*
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/8e9e95ef2a7ba3e4
.
O.B.A.M.A. = One Big Absolute Mistake America !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/af77b9f9fbd81af5
.
insane political pay-back is a b-i-t-c-h ~ RHF
-ps- remember it's now blame 'obama' time !
.
.
~ RHF
- When you get to your new Gettysburg, don't expect Rush, Hannity,
- Perry, Goldberg or O'Reilly to be on the field with you or leading
- Pickett's Charge. They won't be. They will be way at the back out of
- harm's way.
Note to Wikking : {Gettysburg a Battle to Save America}
we will be there, We Will Be There. WE WILL BE THERE !
- - - no media stars required ~ RHF
.
.
Mike
>
> - Show quoted text -
RHF,
What are you saying? That trauma resulting in pain and suffering is
NOT torture? If so, could you provide at least a hint of what your
reasoning is?
Confused, as usual, by your writing style....
Mike
Louisville, KY
Mike
>
> - Show quoted text -
The battle has already been fought.
dxAce
Michael W. Bryant, the totally confused dufus who once claimed to have a PhD,
wrote:
You are incapable of fighting any battle, dufus. All you can do is lie your fat
ass off and hope for the best.
dxAce
Michigan
USA
And, as always, don't let your children attend Louisville Technical Institute.
They've hired at least one dufus who once claimed to have a PhD, and who knows,
there may be more dufi there.
Drifter
Mike, why do you bother to waste your time? all these
people followed the Bush-crime-Family over the cliff
behind the neo-cons.
Drifter...
Mike
So, all those terrorists murderers have to do is ask God (Allah) for
forgiveness? If that's all that's required, Hell must be a very lonely
place.....
If that's all that tortutrers have to do to be in God's grace, then
that's all terrorists have to do, right?
Aw, the paradox of religious-based justice....
cuh...@webtv.net
lives across the street from me, I tried to tell him my 1914 Ford Model
T car won't be an Antique untill the year 2014.My sister and brother in
law used to snail mail subscribe to Antique Trader, they used to give
them to me after they got through glancing at them.One time a bunch of
years ago, I read an article in Antique Trader that for something to be
an Antique it has to be at least 100 years old or older.Antique Trader
is sort of the ''Bible'' of the Antiqueing World.
www.antiquetrader.com
I get regular Antiques And The Arts email newsletters.I received one
this morning.
www.antiquesandthearts.com
If I live to be a hunnert years old, I will be a genuine Antique.
cuhulin
dave
>> .
>> .
>
> So, all those terrorists murderers have to do is ask God (Allah) for
> forgiveness? If that's all that's required, Hell must be a very lonely
> place.....
>
> If that's all that tortutrers have to do to be in God's grace, then
> that's all terrorists have to do, right?
>
> Aw, the paradox of religious-based justice....
>
Religion is a slippery slope...
dxAce
cuh...@webtv.net wrote:
> That democrat (democrats and libs Really Are CLINICALLY INSANE!) who
> lives across the street from me, I tried to tell him my 1914 Ford Model
> T car won't be an Antique untill the year 2014.My sister and brother in
> law used to snail mail subscribe to Antique Trader, they used to give
> them to me after they got through glancing at them.One time a bunch of
> years ago, I read an article in Antique Trader that for something to be
> an Antique it has to be at least 100 years old or older.Antique Trader
> is sort of the ''Bible'' of the Antiqueing World.
It depends upon what the item is, see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiques
dxAce
dxAce wrote:
> cuh...@webtv.net wrote:
>
> > That democrat (democrats and libs Really Are CLINICALLY INSANE!) who
> > lives across the street from me, I tried to tell him my 1914 Ford Model
> > T car won't be an Antique untill the year 2014.My sister and brother in
> > law used to snail mail subscribe to Antique Trader, they used to give
> > them to me after they got through glancing at them.One time a bunch of
> > years ago, I read an article in Antique Trader that for something to be
> > an Antique it has to be at least 100 years old or older.Antique Trader
> > is sort of the ''Bible'' of the Antiqueing World.
>
> It depends upon what the item is, see:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiques
The oldest thing I have here is an old woodcut attributed to Hans Holbein, the
Younger, from the early 1500's.
cuh...@webtv.net
tons of Space dust every day and night.Dust that comes in from Outer
Space.Billions of years old.
cuhulin
dave
By definition, almost everything is the same age.
Kevin Cunningham
> On May 6, 5:56 am, Kevin Cunningham <sms...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 5, 5:54 pm, "~ RHF" <rhf-newsgro...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> > > On May 5, 9:09 am, retrogro...@comcast.net wrote:> On Tue, 5 May 2009 05:17:28 -0700 (PDT), Gary Forbis
>
> > > > <forbisga...@msn.com> wrote:
>
> > > > >> Would "You" Torture A Terrorist To Save The Lives
> > > > >> Of Your Family and Loved Ones ?
>
> > > > >Would you cut off your left arm to save the lives of your
> > > > >family and loved ones? Do you still have your left arm?
> > > > >If so then do you have any family and loved ones?
>
> > > > >One stupid hypothetical deserves another.
> > > > >Are your blinders of your own making?
>
> > > - Would you blow up a nuclear bomb in NYC to save your family?
> > > -
> > > - You beat me to it.
>
> > > RG - Just How Does Commiting a Terrorist Act
> > > and Killing Tens of Thousands or Millions of
> > > Innocent Human Beings =Equate To= "You"
> > > Torture A (One) Terrorist To Save The Lives
> > > Of Your Family and Loved Ones ?
> > > .
> > > OH YEAH TORTURED LIBERAL LOGIC !
> > > .
> > > The Answer is either a simple : Yes -or- No
> > > .
>
>
> Another Liberal Lie and Democrat Distortion :
> Since what is now being called Torture did
> help prevent a 9/11 type Attack on LA.
>
>
> KC - If you had ever saw a Family Member, a Friend
> or Loved One In-Pain and Suffering : You Would Not
> Want To Watch [.]
>
> - You get your rocks off by hearing about torture.
>
> KC - Typical Liberal-Fascist Thinking Torture = Sex.
>
> - You are a coward.
>
> KC - 'coward'
>
> - - - = = = RHF's Canned Reply 'Rant' = = = - - -
> [>: To Liberal-Fascist Name Calling :<]
> ROTFL - You Know When You Are Winning An Argument :
> When a Super-Smart 'Enlightened" Liberal Starts Name Calling*.
> * They Lose Their Ability To Think And Get Emotional - rotfl ~ RHFhttp://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/318979fbe8546cfa
> .
> typical liberal-fascist thinking with respect to other
> human beings who do not bow-down to them ~ RHF
>
> - But so what, you want to watch other people being tortured.
>
> KC -clearly- Your 'projections' -wrt- my mental
> reasoning and motives; are in-fact a mirror of
> your own Psyche with your repeated allusions
> to 'watching' and 'sex'.
>
> - Not that torture ever reveals anything,
> - how many witches got burned do you
>
> > think? How many satanists?
>
> KC - Not talking about 'witches' or 'satinists'
> unless you personally know of some who have
> recently been 'burned' here i the USA.
>
> We are Talking about Islam-O-Fascist Terrorists
> who plan Terrorist Attacks like 9/11 and Kill
> Thousands of Innocent People Men, Women
> and Children.
>
> - The fact is that all the persons involved in torture
> - are criminally culpable. The fact that they won't
> - be brought to trial shows what prosecutorial
> - discretion is.
>
> KC -fwiw- Personally I 'think' that both Bush and
> Cheney should be Accountable; and Said They
> Asked For The Legal Advisements On What
> Constitutes Torture : State That They Gave The
> Orders; and Name The Names of The Members
> of the US Congress Who Either Gave The OK
> or Their Passive Approval to what is now being
> Called Torture After-the-Fact by many of those
> same Members of the US Congress.
>
> Pelosi & Reid & Biden + Et Al
>
> Former us president GW Bush and former vp
> Dick Cheney need to Stand-Up before the US
> Congress On TV and Start Name Names.
> .
> .
Prove that torture prevented an attack on LA. You have the floor.
By the way, did you know that you don't have to capitalize every thing?
~ RHF
-reposted-
The Question Becomes : Is Torture Defined By The Use of Force ?
[ Is the Use of Force the Defining Element of Torture ? ]
.
That trauma resulting in pain and suffering is NOT torture?
-reposted-
Not To The Person Who Is The Subject Of The Use
Of Physical Force and/or Emotional Trauma Which
Results In Pain, Suffering and/or Their Death.
Note the use of "and/or Emotional Trauma"
Inclusive Words 'and/or'
Operative Words 'Emotional Trauma'
- If so, could you provide at least a hint
- of what your reasoning is?
The Use of 'Physical Force' to Inflict Pain and
Suffering -results- In Actual Pain and Suffering.
The Use of 'Emotional Trauma' to Inflict Pain and
Suffering -results- In Actual Pain and Suffering.
- Confused, as usual, by your writing style....
-
- Mike
- Louisville, KY
MWB - The root of all this stems from a simple
Question : Would "You" Torture A Terrorist To
Save The Lives Of Your Family and Loved Ones ?
Not Talking About Bush/Obama.
Not Talking About US Military/CIA/FBI.
Not Talking About The Federal/State/Local Authorities.
MWB - I Am Talking About You : Just You {MWB}
An The Lives And Safety Of Your Family.
Again MWB Here Is The Question :
Would "You" {Dave} Torture A Terrorist To Save
The Lives Of Your Family and Loved Ones ?
MWB as for "Me" RHF that Answer is Simple
"YES" I Would & 'Yes' I Could & 'Yes' I Will [.]
because after all - i am only human and
they are my family and loved ones ~ RHF
.
.
~ RHF
> On Thu, 7 May 2009 09:21:36 -0700 (PDT), "~ RHF"> >http://www.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?GUID=5CF8AA40-8C53-4B00-...
- WOw. what a nut job!
RG - Did I not end with . . .
Who i$ John Galt
The CIA waterboarding ones that were recently outed.
>
>> Liberal Logic - Clinton Assassinating Usama Bin laden is OK but Bush
>> Waterboarding Bin Laden is a crime against humanity.
>
> Some of this is just verbiage. Would you use the word "assassinating"
> in relationship to what a swat team does to a hostage holding bank
> robber? The distinction between appropriate and inappropriate use
> of force is quite important.
When you select someone and specifically plan and try to kill them....?
I tend to call it assassination. War is indiscriminate attacks on a
military not targeting one single person.
Who i$ John Galt
Pelosi was briefed on the Torture and the documents are coming out....
She and the Congress already have it all settled, if it were illegal
Pelosi would not have colluded to allow Bush to adopt it in the first
place.... would she?
~ RHF
> On May 7, 6:09 am, "~ RHF" <rhf-newsgro...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 5, 5:23 pm, dave <d...@dave.dave> wrote:
> > - - ~ RHF wrote:
> > - - So Liberal & Democrats Believe that it is OK
> > - - "Moral" to let your Family and Friends and
> > - - Loved Ones Die : When you could have 'possibly'
> > - - prevented it from happening to them.
>
> > - What profits a man who gains the world but loses his soul?
>
> > Dave - What profits a man who Save His Family and Friends
> > {Retains His World} -but- Tortures and/or Kills a Terrorist
>
> > He has a World with his Family and Friends
> > in it; and the Understanding and Forgiveness
> > of God{Allah} - Amen ~ RHF
> > .
> > .
>
- is ask God (Allah) for forgiveness?
- If that's all that's required, Hell must be a very
- lonely place.....
-
- If that's all that tortutrers have to do to be
- in God's grace, then that's all terrorists
- have to do, right?
MWB,
For the Islam-O-Fascist Terrorist and Torturers :
They would not ask God for Forgiveness.
However to 'Their' Belief System 'They' would
Ask Allah for His Blessings for Killing and/or
Torturing an Infidel.
- Aw, the paradox of religious-based justice....
Yeah that why the Islam-O-Fascist want the
Subjugation of Non-Believers and Sharia Law.
The Muslim had Islamic Law Behind Him and
the Non-Believer has No Legal Standing.
Hell-on-Earth -is- The Life of a Non-Believer
in an Islamic State That Imposes Sharia Law.
While MWB in the vast majority of Western
Democracies base on Judeo-Christian Law
both Belivers and Non-Belivers have Equal
Legal Standing {Equality} Before The Law.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judeo-Christian
Why Even the Communist gave Lip Service
to Equality Before The Law For All.
ISLAM DOES NOT [.]
.
.
~ RHF
- Prove that torture prevented an attack on LA. You have the floor.
"CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind
Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style Attack on Los Angeles.”
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/torture_worked_foiled_los_angeles_attack_yay_torture/
- By the way, did you know that you don't have to capitalize every
thing?
NO I DID NOT ! :o) ~ RHF
.
~ RHF
MWB - The 'Battle' To Protect and Defend
the USA and Americans : Is Going On Everyday
Around the World 24/7. ~ RHF
.
Who i$ John Galt
Prove that Obama has saved any jobs?
~ RHF
Drifter,
The Great American Freedom
to 'Choose' Your Poison :
The Bush-Crime-Family
--- or ---
The Obama-Crime-Family
.
insane political pay-back is a b-i-t-c-h ~ RHF
-ps- hey it's now blame obama time !
.
.
cuh...@webtv.net
died of an illness today.
www.clarionledger.com www.wjtv.com www.wlbt.com www.wapt.com
www.onlinenewspapers.com (Mississippi)
cuhulin
cuh...@webtv.net
part of the new world order and U.S.fed govt Ministry of Propaganda.
cuhulin
Gary Forbis
Dog..com> wrote:
Pelosi said she was briefed about what they were thinking about doing
but was not allowed to present any questions and was told there would
be another briefing before any of the techniques were actually used.
If Pelosi had revealed the conversations she could have been tried
for treason. I don't think Pelosi is all that strong.
My local congresscritter, McDermott, is fighting or has fought the
good
fight for revealing a cell phone conversation some one said they had
recorded from cross talk. It doesn't seem to matter that illegal
activity
was being discussed. They seem to have him under control now.
Who i$ John Galt
> On Thu, 7 May 2009 09:21:36 -0700 (PDT), "~ RHF"
> <rhf-new...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>> .
>> Hello Americans - Janet Napolitano Thanks You for
>> Your Newsgroup Comments and Has Pre-Qualified
>> You As A 'Potential' Terrorist*
>> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/8e9e95ef2a7ba3e4
>> .
I'm Pre-Qualified every other day, I have to feed a bunch into my
shredder too. I'm considering using encryption
justtofuckwithanyoneinterssted.
Gary Forbis
Dog..com> wrote:
Retro answered the first part.
I'd hate to be on a squad with you if you didn't aim your weapon
before
firing. Are you not in that moment you pull your rifle's trigger
targeting
one single person?
Who i$ John Galt
> On Thu, 07 May 2009 19:17:25 -0400, "Who i$ John Galt" <"Men of the
> Mind"@Talk-n-Dog..com> wrote:
>
>>> Prove that torture prevented an attack on LA. You have the floor.
>>>
>> Prove that Obama has saved any jobs?
>
>
> saying we had given these people notice they were being let go, but
> the stimulus let us keep them. Turn off FUX news and learn something.
over 600,000,000 jobs lost. No rise in jobs, no hits, no bases, no runs.
Obama has saved zero jobs, but he has been costing us plenty of jobs,
every time he over steps the constitution and beats up on industry and
investors, because that drives money away from the Obama economy.
Geitner was just today saying that they fixed thing so new capital could
come into the markets, who in their right mind would put money where
Obama could do to you what he did to GM investors with capital in this
market. They should have pulled out when Obama took office, they'd be
way ahead of the game.
Brenda Ann
"Who i$ John Galt" <"Men of the Mind"@Talk-n-Dog..com> wrote in message
news:6uJMl.38459$v8.2...@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
>
> When you select someone and specifically plan and try to kill them....?
>
> I tend to call it assassination. War is indiscriminate attacks on a
> military not targeting one single person.
>
Not totally accurate. Though most of war is indeed indiscriminate, there are
very often specific missions in which there is a specific and known target,
such as a high ranking officer.
>
John Barnard
> -
> - http://catherinemacivor.com/2009/04/24/top-interrogator-torture-does-...
>
> Simple Logic {Neither Liberal-or-Conservative :
> The Proper Integration Techniques Usually Work
>
> The Question Remains . . .
> What Is A Proper Integration Technique ? -and- What Is Torture ?
If a technique doesn't work and you still carry through with it then it
is torture. Anyone undergoing physical pain will say anything to get it
to stop; it doesn't work and is torture.
> .
> clearly 'beheading' {murder} does not get you
> the answers you want ~ RHF
> .
>
Mike
>
> Again MWB Here Is The Question :
> Would "You" {Dave} Torture A Terrorist To Save
> The Lives Of Your Family and Loved Ones ?
>
> MWB as for "Me" RHF that Answer is Simple
> "YES" I Would & 'Yes' I Could & 'Yes' I Will [.]
>
> because after all - i am only human and
> they are my family and loved ones ~ RHF
> .
RHF,
Yes, I'd torture to save my own family. But, I'd be committing a crime
and would expect to face prosecution. It would be worth it to save my
family, but I know I'd be committing a crime.
Mike
dxAce
So? You've already been busted for smoking pot with your students and also once
claimed to have a PhD.
After that, what's one more crime, dufus?
dxAce
Michigan
USA
And, as always, don't let your children attend Louisville Technical Institute.
They've hired at least one dufus who once claimed to have a PhD, and who knows,
there may be more dufi there.
dave
>>> .
>>> .
>
> - Prove that torture prevented an attack on LA. You have the floor.
>
> "CIA Confirms: Waterboarding 9/11 Mastermind
> Led to Info that Aborted 9/11-Style Attack on Los Angeles.�
> http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/torture_worked_foiled_los_angeles_attack_yay_torture/
>
> - By the way, did you know that you don't have to capitalize every
> thing?
>
> NO I DID NOT ! :o) ~ RHF
> .
22 Apr 2009 08:47 am
Thiessen's LA Tower Canard
We will not know for sure how much garbage or non-garbage the CIA
gleaned from torturing captives until a Truth Commission sorts it all
out, but we do have a great deal of evidence that torturing KSM was,
pace Thiessen, not responsible for foiling the LA Tower plot. As Tim
Noah notes, there is a matter of chronology:
In a White House press briefing, Bush's counterterrorism chief,
Frances Fragos Townsend, told reporters that the cell leader was
arrested in February 2002, and "at that point, the other members of the
cell" (later arrested) "believed that the West Coast plot has been
canceled, was not going forward" [italics mine]. A subsequent fact sheet
released by the Bush White House states, "In 2002, we broke up [italics
mine] a plot by KSM to hijack an airplane and fly it into the tallest
building on the West Coast." These two statements make clear that
however far the plot to attack the Library Tower ever got�an unnamed
senior FBI official would later tell the Los Angeles Times that Bush's
characterization of it as a "disrupted plot" was "ludicrous"�that plot
was foiled in 2002. But Sheikh Mohammed wasn't captured until March 2003.
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/04/thiessens-la-tower-canard.html
dave
If my government didn't fear me I'd be a bad citizen.
dave
>
> Michael W. Bryant, LTI's prize dufus who once claimed to have a PhD, wrote:
>
>> On May 7, 6:45 pm, "~ RHF" <rhf-newsgro...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Again MWB Here Is The Question :
>>> Would "You" {Dave} Torture A Terrorist To Save
>>> The Lives Of Your Family and Loved Ones ?
>>>
>>> MWB as for "Me" RHF that Answer is Simple
>>> "YES" I Would & 'Yes' I Could & 'Yes' I Will [.]
>>>
>>> because after all - i am only human and
>>> they are my family and loved ones ~ RHF
>>> .
>> RHF,
>>
>> Yes, I'd torture to save my own family. But, I'd be committing a crime
>> and would expect to face prosecution. It would be worth it to save my
>> family, but I know I'd be committing a crime.
>
> So? You've already been busted for smoking pot with your students and also once
> claimed to have a PhD.
>
> After that, what's one more crime, dufus?
>
> dxAce
> Michigan
> USA
>
Kevin Cunningham
>
> > On May 7, 8:58 am, "~ RHF" <rhf-newsgro...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> > > On May 7, 5:38 am, Gary Forbis <forbisga...@msn.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On May 7, 4:15 am, "Who i$ John Galt" <"Men of the Mind"@Talk-n-
>
> > > > Dog..com> wrote:
> > > > > John Barnard wrote:
> > > > > > ~ RHF wrote:
> > > > > >> On May 5, 9:09 am, retrogro...@comcast.net wrote:
> > > > > >>> On Tue, 5 May 2009 05:17:28 -0700 (PDT), Gary Forbis
>
> > > > > >>> <forbisga...@msn.com> wrote:
> > > > > >>>> On May 5, 1:00 am, "~ RHF" <rhf-newsgro...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > > > > >>>>> Of Your Family and Loved Ones ?
> > > > > >>>> family and loved ones? Do you still have your left arm?
> > > > > >>>> If so then do you have any family and loved ones?
> > > > > >>>> One stupid hypothetical deserves another.
> > > > > >>>> Are your blinders of your own making?
> > > > > >> - Would you blow up a nuclear bomb in NYC to save your family?
> > > > > >> -
> > > > > >> - You beat me to it.
>
> > > > > >> RG - Just How Does Commiting a Terrorist Act
> > > > > >> and Killing Tens of Thousands or Millions of
> > > > > >> Innocent Human Beings =Equate To= "You"
> > > > > >> Of Your Family and Loved Ones ?
> > > > > >> OH YEAH TORTURED LIBERAL LOGIC !
> > > > > >> .
> > > > > >> The Answer is either a simple : Yes -or- No
> > > > > >> .
>
>
>
> > > > It is? What CIA agents were outed for political purposes that
> > > > Liberals
> > > > did not decry?
>
> > > > > Liberal Logic - Clinton Assassinating Usama Bin laden is OK but Bush
> > > > > Waterboarding Bin Laden is a crime against humanity.
>
> > > > Some of this is just verbiage. Would you use the word "assassinating"
> > > > in relationship to what a swat team does to a hostage holding bank
> > > > robber?
>
> > > - The distinction between appropriate and
> > > - inappropriate use of force is quite important.
>
> > > The Question Becomes : Is Torture Defined By The Use of Force ?
>
> > > Not To The Person Who Is The Subject Of The Use
> > > Of Physical Force and/or Emotional Trauma Which
> > > Results In Pain, Suffering and/or Their Death.
> > > .
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
>
> - What are you saying?
>
> -reposted-
> The Question Becomes : Is Torture Defined By The Use of Force ?
>
>
> .
> That trauma resulting in pain and suffering is NOT torture?
>
(geez, this moron can't even post a simple sentence)
Torture is torture. Do you think, well that is useless thing to
ask....would you like to be tortured? It's a quick way to get to the
truth. According to you.
Kevin Cunningham
>
> - By the way, did you know that you don't have to capitalize every
> thing?
>
> NO I DID NOT ! :o) ~ RHF
> .
Riiighhhtttt, and I believe something that is in some blog. Sure, not
in the NY Times, Washington Post, etc.
What a drooling whack job.
Would you like to be tortured? When has the law ever allowed
torture? Remember all the witches that were caught by torture?
Kevin Cunningham
And you are not in it. You are a gutless coward.
Kevin Cunningham
> On Thu, 07 May 2009 18:48:29 -0400, "Who i$ John Galt" <"Men of the
>
> Mind"@Talk-n-Dog..com> wrote:
>
> >The CIA waterboarding ones that were recently outed.
>
> Not one has been named fool. ANd they were independent contractors.
Yeah, right, the Germans would have gotten off if they had used
independent contractors.