Tutorial for setting up Ubuntu as a Windows Subsystem for Linux WSL in Windows 10

[Arlen Holder]

Tutorial for setting up Ubuntu as a Windows Subsystem for Linux WSL in Windows 10

As always, this general-purpose tutorial is posted for two key reasons:
a. So that others benefit from all efforts, and,
b. So that others can _improve_ upon what is currently documented;
c. That way, even more people benefit from the end result.

Advantage of this 3-step command-line method:
a. It's essentially three cut-and-paste commands, click, click, & click.
b. No privacy leaks (i.e., no login, no Microsoft Store!)
c. You should be up and running in a few minutes.

Disadvantages of this method:
A. This tutorial doesn't cover adding Ubuntu 20.04 yet (I don't know how).
B. This tutorial doesn't cover enabling graphical applications yet.
C. This tutorial doesn't cover enabling sound (pulse audio) yet.

Thanks to Mike Easter for pointing to the fundamental documentation.
<https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WSL>

Given that documentation, here are the 3 cut-and-paste command-line steps:
1. Download the Ubuntu APPX
2. Add the Ubuntu APPX
3. Run the Ubuntu EXE

1. *Download the Ubuntu APPX*
<https://wsldownload.azureedge.net/CanonicalGroupLimited.Ubuntu18.04onWindows_1804.2018.817.0_x64__79rhkp1fndgsc.Appx>
Name: CanonicalGroupLimited.Ubuntu18.04onWindows_1804.2018.817.0_x64__79rhkp1fndgsc.Appx
Size: 224629284 bytes (214 MiB)
SHA256: 96E4E3E336F08DDE1DF81FA9C266C5C7750BA92729857E92BDE36BF84A1DB002

Note: If you can find the Ubuntu 20.04 appx, please advise of the URL.

2. *Add the Ubuntu APPX*
Win+R > powershell
PS> Start-Process powershell -verb runAs
PS> Enable-WindowsOptionalFeature -Online -FeatureName Microsoft-Windows-Subsystem-Linux
PS> Add-AppxPackage -Path "C:\software\iso\ubuntu\CanonicalGroupLimited.Ubuntu18.04onWindows_1804.2018.817.0_x64__79rhkp1fndgsc.Appx"

3. *Run the Ubuntu EXE*
Win+R > cmd{control+shift+enter}
C:\> wsl
Windows Subsystem for Linux has no installed distributions.
Distributions can be installed by visiting the Microsoft Store:
https://aka.ms/wslstore

C:\> ubuntu1804.exe
Installing, this may take a few minutes...
Please create a default UNIX user account.
The username does not need to match your Windows username.
For more information visit: https://aka.ms/wslusers
Enter new UNIX username: {enter any desired uname}
Enter new UNIX password: {enter any desired passwd}
Retype new UNIX password: {re-enter that same passwd}
passwd: password updated successfully
Installation successful!
To run a command as administrator (user "root"), use "sudo <command>".
See "man sudo_root" for details.

Voila!

To test, run "linux" commands at the "uname@pcname:~$" prompt:
$ whoami
uname
$ pwd
/home/uname
$ mkdir foo
$ touch foo/bar.txt
$ cd foo
$ ls
$ vim bar.txt
$ vipw
vipw: Permission denied.
vipw: Couldn't lock file: Permission denied
vipw: /etc/passwd is unchanged
$ sudo vipw
[sudo] password for x: {enter password for uname}
Select an editor. To change later, run 'select-editor'.
1. /bin/nano <---- easiest
2. /usr/bin/vim.basic
3. /usr/bin/vim.tiny
4. /bin/ed
2
root:x:0:0:root:/root:/bin/bash
daemon:x:1:1:daemon:/usr/sbin:/usr/sbin/nologin
bin:x:2:2:bin:/bin:/usr/sbin/nologin
etc.
$ sudo apt update
2 sudo apt upgrade -y
$ exit

Test it out to see if you can get it back! :)
Win+R > cmd
C:\> wsl
uname@pcname:/mnt/c/Users/uname$

As always, please improve so that all benefit from every action.
--
The great benefit of the public Usenet potluck is we learn from each other.

[Kenny McCormack]

In article <hi9n05...@mid.individual.net>,
J.O. Aho <us...@example.net> wrote:

>On 16/05/2020 10.19, Arlen Holder wrote:
>> Tutorial for setting up Ubuntu as a Windows Subsystem for Linux WSL in
>> Windows 10
>

>I would say this is out of topic in the Linux groups and the issue is
>that you still have the vulnerable shell around.

What does this mean? What is "vulnerable" ?

>According to some leaked numbers, this has been one of microsoft latest
>failures as people don't seem to utilize it, those who use Linux tend to
>run Linux and do not need microsoft product and those who use microsoft
>products tend to not use Linux.

I tend to agree. My first reaction on seeing this thread was: Why?

Who is the target audience? What is MS actually trying to do? (Usually,
you find out that some big corporate client needed this, so they put it in
for everyone - but most people end up scratching their heads and wondering
why).

Another theory is that MS's OS division is pretty much at EOL and they're
just casting around for something to do. The CW is that MS doesn't make
much money anymore on either OS or, for that matter, office software. All
the money is in the cloud services stuff.

--
Treating the stock market indexes as general measures of the well-being of a
society is like treating your blood pressure as an indicator of health. The
higher, the better, right? In fact, a high stock market is good for the investor
class, but it means the rest of us are getting screwed better than ever.

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what Kenny McCormack <gaz...@shell.xmission.com> wrote :

> Who is the target audience? What is MS actually trying to do? (Usually,
> you find out that some big corporate client needed this, so they put it in
> for everyone - but most people end up scratching their heads and wondering
> why).

Can anyone spell "interoperability"... :)
o Can anyone "use the tool that works best at any given moment?"

:)

I think people need to keep their minds wide open to new solutions...
o One of those new ideas is for Windows & Linux to work well together.

Fancy that concept.

There are _huge_ advantages to using the tools that work best for the
tasks, where, for example, the good Lord knows, I've espoused using both
Linux and Windows in a dual boot configuration for years on my desktop
computers, along with iOS & Android, as these sample threads attest to:

o *How do we most easily set up a freeware network of Windows + Linux*
*+ iOS + Android file systems*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/tKhwlZyOhf0/oc2gJAq7CAAJ>

o *Why doesn't Ubuntu 18.04 ask to install next to Windows 10 Pro single HDD as a dual boot?*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/D7E7FQ1NLNk/vKYj6PF0BwAJ>

o *Proactive setup instructions for dual boot with Windows & Ubuntu via Grub using legacy keyboards*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/WltumTFjzU8/98HTzaNuCAAJ>

o *Have you ever seen a Grub that wouldn't respond to the keyboard?*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/yQmtemiHcVk/glo2kUA2CAAJ>

o *Quick question asked of how to install Ubuntu on top of Ubuntu?*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/5Xl7DPopNnE/fBpSed9gAwAJ>

o *How to reset dual boot Linux:Win GRUB after "inaccessible boot device"*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/DWccp5p47Vo/utt55yGLBgAJ>
etc.

o *Easiest way to transfer large (video) from Linux to Windows over WiFi?*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/qZyr5Nk0EuY/9aQqf8VUCwAJ>

o *Quick question about Ubuntu/MacOS dual boot basics*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/0kdhyqga5FQ/805GB7sGCQAJ>

o *A note from the cross platform groups ... that may interest linux users too*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/LMQRVNx92-I/W22rN7b8CAAJ>
etc.

While I used SunOS & Solaris for years before "Linux" became the norm, I
have _always_ integrated Windows, Mac, and Linux as seamlessly as they can
be made (e.g., Samba & CAP enabled the three platforms to edit the same
files, albeit the Apple resource and data forks might drive you nuts). :)

In keeping with interoperability, I run Linux commands on Android even:
o *Do you already know how to run a Linux command (like ls) on the Android*
*filesystem plugged into USB?*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/oOfdMLmJ-oQ/Y_ezHs2sBgAJ>

And, in keeping with interoperability, I run Windows commands on Android:
o *From Windows, how can we open a command line on the Android filesystem?*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/vmWWLzPHKt0/bG6EHd8GBQAJ>

Also in keeping with interoperability, with all my dual boot desktops, I've
turned off hibernation & faststart so that I can _simultaneously_ access
all platforms at the same time, whether that be Windows, Linux, iOS,
Android, or NAS...
o *Simultaneously slide Windows Linux iOS Android files back and forth*
*over USB at 7GB per minute speeds using 100% native devices*
*(no proprietary software needed)*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/WqIDiVbawRs/pwxzu7LMCAAJ>

It turns out that Linux has huge advantages over Windows with some devices:
o *Do these USB transfer times on Ubuntu 18.04 to mobile devices make sense to you?*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/OxKbsbzWtQw/Et_sk1-VCQAJ>

In summary, just like with installing Linux flavors inside of VirtualBox,
or using Docker, there are things linux does well that Windows doesn't do
all that well, and now, with the WSL, I can do "those things" without
having to resort to booting the system.

My main goal is two things, by the way, one of which I instantly have,
which is native "awk" "sed" "grep" "tr", etc., but the other is that I want
to plug my iPads into this Linux so that I can access the entire iOS
visible filesystem read/write for copying movies over, which Linux does so
much better than does Windows, as explained in this dual-boot tutorial:
o *How to read/write access iOS file systems on Ubuntu/Windows over USB cable*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/z_KXY4IHLe0/OaFqueaaCAAJ>

I also want to set up servers that work "inside" of Windows, which is
something that Linux excels at (if for no other reason, than there are more
freeware server utilities on Linux than on Windows).
o *Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system*
*that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices?*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/ydQ9sG-8Y08/pBRXk7UEEgAJ>
--
The reason for mixing Windows & Linux is you get the best of both worlds.

[Paul]

Kenny McCormack wrote:
> In article <hi9n05...@mid.individual.net>,
> J.O. Aho <us...@example.net> wrote:
>> On 16/05/2020 10.19, Arlen Holder wrote:
>>> Tutorial for setting up Ubuntu as a Windows Subsystem for Linux WSL in Windows 10
>

> Who is the target audience?

They claimed it was the Azure customers who would use this.

I had a lot of trouble believing in this "mythical creature".
I could see no evidence of such animals in the wild.

But they haven't stopped working on this WSL concept,
adding some sort of "kernel" to the picture. To
impress us ? Dunno.

It had all the appearances of a bar bet, or a running gag.

It was a lot of fun for about the first three days,
when some people got an X server running on Windows
and got Firefox running from WSL, on the Windows desktop.
But other than that, it's been pretty quiet as subsystems go.

If you'd previously needed this stuff, the ten years old
GNUWIN32 items on Sourceforge, handle most of this. Or you
could use Cygwin. A third platform ? Hmmm.

Paul

[Kenny McCormack]

In article <r9on05$vbh$1...@dont-email.me>, Paul <nos...@needed.invalid> wrote:
...

>> Who is the target audience?
>
>They claimed it was the Azure customers who would use this.

...

>It had all the appearances of a bar bet, or a running gag.

Quite so. Well put.

>It was a lot of fun for about the first three days,
>when some people got an X server running on Windows
>and got Firefox running from WSL, on the Windows desktop.
>But other than that, it's been pretty quiet as subsystems go.
>
>If you'd previously needed this stuff, the ten years old
>GNUWIN32 items on Sourceforge, handle most of this. Or you
>could use Cygwin. A third platform ? Hmmm.

First of all, I have no problem with the idea of using Unix-ish tools under
Windows. That speaks to your mention of "GNUWIN32".

But as to actually running a Linux environment directly under Windows, the
things that pop into mind when considering this WSL are:

1) I've used Cygwin a lot (*), and it is quite good. In particular, I
used the X server from Cygwin as my X-server-running-on-Windows for
quite a long time.
2) A long time ago, there was a thing quite similar to WSL called
"Co-Linux" - that allowed you to run a Linux environment right
alongside of Windows. It was quite cute, though entirely a
curiosity sort of thing. I never really saw any real, long term
utility in it (which is the same feeling I have about this WSL
thing). The funny thing is that the machine that I had running
Co-Linux had a hard drive crash shortly after I started running
Co-Linux on it, which I concluded was likely the fault of Co-Linux,
so I've never gone back to it.

Anyway, if I wanted to do this, I'd just run one or the other OS as a VM.
Tools now exist for sharing data between host and guest in VM softwares, so
no big issue there.

(*) I don't use Windows much at all anymore, so no real use for Cygwin anymore.

--
Trump has normalized hate.

The media has normalized Trump.

[Arlen Holder]

In response to what Paul <nos...@needed.invalid> wrote :

> If you'd previously needed this stuff, the ten years old
> GNUWIN32 items on Sourceforge, handle most of this. Or you
> could use Cygwin. A third platform ? Hmmm.

Interoperability...

But...but...buu... Wouldn't it be nice to have one machine, two displays...
a. One display is Linux (via WSL for example)
b. The other display is Windows
c. All on the same machine (so the data being munged is the same)

We all used kludges like cygwin & then VMs, and then, more recently,
"docker" since, oh, I don't know, starting from way back in Win95 days,
where, personally, I gave up on Cygwin first and then, years later, I gave
up on virtual machines by simply resorting to dual boot via Grub whenever I
needed the plethora of piped commands, mostly for text-munging, such as
"grep" "awk" "sed" & "tr"

Luckily, on native Windows, "vim" works fine for a lot of my text-munging
needs (e.g., when I munge the cut-and-paste from DXOMark mobile reviews):
o *DXOMark Mobile Phone Camera Quality of Results*
*(the best known smarphone camera output QOR known to date)*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.photo.digital/cKnf0gm-lmI/An1EZgIMAQAJ>

You'll notice there are about a hundred lines which need to be munged,
which often happens because I document things that are cut and pasted from
web sites, which makes a mess of them, initially; so they need cleaning up
and nobody is gonna manually clean up even a hundred lines of text if they
cut their teeth on UNIX before Linux was even born.

IMHO, for text munging, there never was a Windows-native substitute for,
oh, say, "!fmt" within vim, except for Cygwin, which, on Linux, if you
haven't used !fmt, you're missing out on a simple yet magical command
indeed.

Another place Linux works magically is when connecting to iOS, where if
you've never done it, then you are missing out on a Nirvana of instant joy,
if cross-platform interoperability is your shtick (as it is mine).

Notice what I _love_ about the "promise" of Linux inside of Windows is
simply what I love about all freeware, which is the ability to switch
instantly between them to perform the tasks I need most done.

Example of instantly using the best tool for the job:
a. I snap screenshots all day, every day
b. I crop and resize and rename, etc., using Irfanview freeware
c. But I annotate (curved arrows, circles & boxes, text) with Paint.NET

Yet this is what I _used_ to do when I needed Linux:
a. I do what I can in Windows & then shut everything down
b. I dual boot to Linux and continue where I left off
c. Then I go back to Windows to complete the task

What this "promises" (if it works) is that I can skip two boots!
a. I can do what I need to in Windows
b. I can continue where I left off in Linux inside of Windows
c. I can then go back to Windows to complete the task.

That's the good news.
o The bad news is my _first_ simple example I tried to show you was
simply running "!fmt" which is a way to instantly format text.

Unfortunately, it failed in the WSL for an unknown-to-me reason.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/3r2DZHJM/wsl02.jpg>

Sigh. Let's hope the other "magical" Linux command works better in WSL:
o "locate" & then "find" (and then pipe to grep to your heart's content)

Note: I realize Cygwin would likely have worked but this is only one of
many situations that I'd like Windows & Linux to work together on.

Sigh. Maybe there is no progress to be had in Win/Linux compatibility.
--
The holy grail is for all my freeware to work beautifully together.

[Mike Easter]

Arlen Holder wrote:
> Tutorial for setting up Ubuntu as a Windows Subsystem for Linux WSL in
> Windows 10
>

> b. No privacy leaks (i.e., no login, no Microsoft Store!)

There is a MS store step in this/ your guide.

> Windows Subsystem for Linux has no installed distributions.
> Distributions can be installed by visiting the Microsoft Store:
> https://aka.ms/wslstore

> A. This tutorial doesn't cover adding Ubuntu 20.04 yet (I don't know how).

I think it can be done w/o MS store following an alternate path.

> Thanks to Mike Easter for pointing to the fundamental documentation.
> <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WSL>

That link shows 3 alternative routes.

abovelink:
> Installing Ubuntu on WSL via the Microsoft Store (Recommended)
> Installing Ubuntu on WSL via rootfs
> Installing Ubuntu on WSL by sideloading the .appx

Your method uses the .appx. If you are going to use the MS store
'anyway', then you can use the route recommended above. If you use that
route, then there is a 20.04 available. The MS store login is not very
privacy invasive as it can be used w/ any working email address of which
there are numerous strategies for throwaway.

There is also a 20.04 available via the rootfs route. Only the/your
.appx route currently lacks the 20.04.


--
Mike Easter

[Chris]

Kenny McCormack <gaz...@shell.xmission.com> wrote:
> In article <hi9n05...@mid.individual.net>,
> J.O. Aho <us...@example.net> wrote:
>> On 16/05/2020 10.19, Arlen Holder wrote:
>>> Tutorial for setting up Ubuntu as a Windows Subsystem for Linux WSL in
>>> Windows 10
>>
>> I would say this is out of topic in the Linux groups and the issue is
>> that you still have the vulnerable shell around.
>
> What does this mean? What is "vulnerable" ?
>
>> According to some leaked numbers, this has been one of microsoft latest
>> failures as people don't seem to utilize it, those who use Linux tend to
>> run Linux and do not need microsoft product and those who use microsoft
>> products tend to not use Linux.
>
> I tend to agree. My first reaction on seeing this thread was: Why?
>
> Who is the target audience? What is MS actually trying to do? (Usually,
> you find out that some big corporate client needed this, so they put it in
> for everyone - but most people end up scratching their heads and wondering
> why).
>
> Another theory is that MS's OS division is pretty much at EOL and they're
> just casting around for something to do. The CW is that MS doesn't make
> much money anymore on either OS or, for that matter, office software. All
> the money is in the cloud services stuff.
>

My dream would be that Windows simply becomes a WM on top of a Linux
kernel.

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Sat, 16 May 2020 13:11:44 -0000 (UTC)
gaz...@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) wrote:

> In article <r9on05$vbh$1...@dont-email.me>, Paul
> <nos...@needed.invalid> wrote: ...
> >> Who is the target audience?
> >
> >They claimed it was the Azure customers who would use this.
> ...
> >It had all the appearances of a bar bet, or a running gag.
>
> Quite so. Well put.

Indeed, although it would allow dyed-in-the-wool Win devotees to
actually learn some useful tools from the GNU and Linux toolbox without
actually going over to the, "dark side," and really installing a Linux
distro.

>
> >It was a lot of fun for about the first three days,
> >when some people got an X server running on Windows
> >and got Firefox running from WSL, on the Windows desktop.
> >But other than that, it's been pretty quiet as subsystems go.
> >
> >If you'd previously needed this stuff, the ten years old
> >GNUWIN32 items on Sourceforge, handle most of this. Or you
> >could use Cygwin. A third platform ? Hmmm.
>
> First of all, I have no problem with the idea of using Unix-ish tools
> under Windows. That speaks to your mention of "GNUWIN32".

Certainly that would make more sense than the other way 'round.

>
> But as to actually running a Linux environment directly under
> Windows, the things that pop into mind when considering this WSL are:

*1^) It is exactly the backward way around to actually run both that
way, especially togeether. Linux running Win is /SO/ much better. With
Win as the host you have the vulnerabilities of Win systems.
Vice-versa. Win for Linux, not Linux for Win. (Double entendre there,
as using Linux for running Win is really a big win for Linux (not to
mention so much more secure))

...and now that I see it, it is also Linux for (the )win! Is that a
double double or a triple? ...asking for a friend.

>
> 1) I've used Cygwin a lot (*), and it is quite good. In
> particular, I used the X server from Cygwin as my
> X-server-running-on-Windows for quite a long time.

"Way Back When" VMWare was new they shipped a stealth trial version with
some Linux distro (maybe Mandrake? Whatever, it was not my first which
was RedHat 5.1 (not Enterprise)) I had installed (just learning then;
still had a main Winstallation). It allowed me to run my /INSTALLED/
Windows 95 in a window on my Linux desktop, copy/paste between. They
soon stopped doing that as it was just too danged useful, I guess.

["Co-Linux"]

Don't know it.

> Anyway, if I wanted to do this, I'd just run one or the other OS as a
> VM. Tools now exist for sharing data between host and guest in VM
> softwares, so no big issue there.

I've heard that newer Wins are more robust. I don't trust 'em from
long experience.

What is old is new once again, again, it seems.

<sigh> for youth, and TO youth! May we all grow old and yet still
appreciate youth. Forward humankind!

>
> (*) I don't use Windows much at all anymore, so no real use for
> Cygwin anymore.
>

Me either, since 1998.

--
Cybe R. Wizard

My other computer is a HOLMES IV with the Mycroft OS
My other car is a Chandler MetalSmith Mark III
Cybe R. Wizard

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 16 May 2020 11:27:33 -0700, Mike Easter wrote:

> There is a MS store step in this/ your guide.

Hi Mike,

I'm gonna focus on improving the tutorial so everyone benefits.
o The goal is the cut-&-paste commands to install 20.04 WSL.

To that end, thanks for being purposefully helpful as the _only_ person
(other than me) who is trying to create/improve the tutorial so that others
benefit.

The tutorial provides three simple cut-&-paste steps:
(1) C:\> wget https://wsldownload.azureedge.net/...Ubuntu18.04onWindows...Appx>
(2) PS> Add-AppxPackage -Path "C:\...Ubuntu18.04onWindows...Appx"
(3) ubuntu1804.exe

All we need is to change the (1) above, to obtain Ubuntu 20.04.

This question I admit I do NOT know the answer to.
o Does anyone?

Q: *What is the command that downloads Ubuntu 20.04 for this WSL?*

To your point, I agree, that the M$ store is "involved"; so I clarify that
no "login" is required (e.g., I'm not gonna set one up)... but that's a red
herring since all we need is the command to download Ubuntu 20.04 & we're
done.

I clarify that I'd _love_ to have help so that we can _remove_ the need for
the M$ store link, & still obtain the latest LTS for Ubuntu (i.e., 20.04).

> I think it can be done w/o MS store following an alternate path.

I "think" you're right, and it would be _wonderful_ to figure out how!
o That was the second of two main reasons for _posting_ the tutorial!

> That link shows 3 alternative routes.

I didn't explain in the tutorial, but I tried _everything_ in the tutorial
you pointed me to work from, where everything else failed that I tried.
<https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WSL>

For example, the tutorial claims I can get Ubuntu 20.04 here...
<https://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/focal/current/>

But, as noted in this prior thread, I can't (yet) figure out how and the
tutorial doesn't say (and nobody else has claimed to know yet either):
o *Tutorial: How to enable the Telnet Client in Windows 10*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.comp.freeware/pEhuvzzFBTU/zpKTILzlAQAJ>

> Your method uses the .appx.

There is a key missing answer in the tutorial:
Q: *What is the command to paste to obtain Ubuntu 20.04 for WSL?*

To be clear, the "appx" was the _only_ method in this tutorial that worked:
<https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WSL>
Note: I have never even once used the M$ Windows Store on this desktop PC.

> If you are going to use the MS store
> 'anyway', then you can use the route recommended above. If you use that
> route, then there is a 20.04 available.

Yes. But how?
o Every method I tried to get 20.04 without "logging in", failed.

> The MS store login is not very
> privacy invasive as it can be used w/ any working email address of which
> there are numerous strategies for throwaway.

The missing link in the tutorial, IMHO, is simply:
o We're missing "Step 1" for Ubuntu 20.04 in the tutorial.

We already have the cut-&-paste commands to install Ubuntu 18.04:
o Step 1: Paste the line to obtain the appx file for Ubuntu
o Step 2: Paste the line to enable WSL
o Step 3: Paste the line to enable Ubuntu

All that we're missing is "Step 1" for Ubuntu 20.04.
o The key question is whether anyone on this ng knows that command?

Q: *What is the command to paste to obtain Ubuntu 20.04 for WSL?*

> There is also a 20.04 available via the rootfs route.
> Only the/your .appx route currently lacks the 20.04.

I don't disagree with your words, but they're not actionable.
o What the tutorial needs is the actual command.

This question I admit I do NOT know the answer to.
o Does anyone?

Q: *What is the command that downloads Ubuntu 20.04 for this WSL?*
--
Solving problems often takes a group where each person adds value.

[Arlen Holder]

> 2. *Add the Ubuntu APPX*
> Win+R > powershell
> PS> Start-Process powershell -verb runAs
> PS> Enable-WindowsOptionalFeature -Online -FeatureName Microsoft-Windows-Subsystem-Linux
> PS> Add-AppxPackage -Path "C:\software\iso\ubuntu\CanonicalGroupLimited.Ubuntu18.04onWindows_1804.2018.817.0_x64__79rhkp1fndgsc.Appx"

The tutorial was posted for two reasons:
a. To give people the 3 cut-and-paste commands, and,
b. To get _improvements_ on the tutorial's cut-and-paste commands,
c. So that everyone benefits in the end from the result.

In the tutorial, essentially, were three cut-&-paste commands:
1. Download the linux image
For example:
PS> Invoke-WebRequest -Uri https://aka.ms/wsl-ubuntu-1604 -OutFile Ubuntu.appx -UseBasicParsing
C:> curl.exe -L -o ubuntu-1604.appx https://aka.ms/wsl-ubuntu-1604
C:> wget.exe https://aka.ms/wsl-ubuntu-1604
2. Enable WSL
For example:
PS> dism.exe /online /enable-feature /featurename:Microsoft-Windows-Subsystem-Linux /all /norestart

PS> Enable-WindowsOptionalFeature -Online -FeatureName Microsoft-Windows-Subsystem-Linux

3. Install the linux image
For example:
PS> Add-AppxPackage .\app_name.appx
C:> ubuntu1604.exe

One place in step 1 that's definitely needed to improve is the answer to
this question, which nobody, to date, has provided (maybe nobody knows?):
Q: *What is the command to download the Ubuntu 20.04 WSL file?*
<https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/install-manual>

For example, this worked to download the _older_ version of Ubuntu:
c:\> curl.exe -L -o ubuntu-1604.appx https://aka.ms/wsl-ubuntu-1604
And yet, this failed:
c:> curl.exe -L -o ubuntu-20-04.appx https://aka.ms/wsl-ubuntu-2004

Likewise, this worked to also download the older version of Ubuntu:
PS> Invoke-WebRequest -Uri https://aka.ms/wsl-ubuntu-1604 -OutFile Ubuntu.appx -UseBasicParsing
And yet, this failed:
PS> Invoke-WebRequest -Uri https://aka.ms/wsl-ubuntu-1604 -OutFile Ubuntu.appx -UseBasicParsing

In summary, at this stage of the tutorial, only 1 key question remains:
Q: *What is the command to download the Ubuntu 20.04 WSL file?*
--
Sometimes it takes a bit of information from someone out there to solve it.

[Arlen Holder]

> For example, this worked to download the _older_ version of Ubuntu:
> c:\> curl.exe -L -o ubuntu-1604.appx https://aka.ms/wsl-ubuntu-1604
> And yet, this failed:
> c:> curl.exe -L -o ubuntu-20-04.appx https://aka.ms/wsl-ubuntu-2004
>
> Likewise, this worked to also download the older version of Ubuntu:
> PS> Invoke-WebRequest -Uri https://aka.ms/wsl-ubuntu-1604 -OutFile Ubuntu.appx -UseBasicParsing
> And yet, this failed:
> PS> Invoke-WebRequest -Uri https://aka.ms/wsl-ubuntu-1604 -OutFile Ubuntu.appx -UseBasicParsing

Drat. Typos! (which are no good in supposed cut-and-paste commands!)
o Here are corrections to those cut-and-paste commands above!

*This worked* to download Ubuntu 16.04 for WSL:

c:\> curl.exe -L -o ubuntu-1604.appx https://aka.ms/wsl-ubuntu-1604

*This failed*:
c:\> curl.exe -L -o ubuntu-2004.appx https://aka.ms/wsl-ubuntu-1604

Likewise, *this worked* to download Ubuntu 16.04 for WSL:

PS> Invoke-WebRequest -Uri https://aka.ms/wsl-ubuntu-1604 -OutFile Ubuntu.appx -UseBasicParsing

*This failed*:
PS> Invoke-WebRequest -Uri https://aka.ms/wsl-ubuntu-2004 -OutFile Ubuntu.appx -UseBasicParsing

What I'm asking newsgroup help on is to fix the cut-and-paste command:
Q: *What cut and paste command downloads Ubuntu 20.04 for WSL?*
--
Someone out there must have Ubuntu 20.04 working in Windows WLS: do they?

[David W. Hodgins]

On Sat, 16 May 2020 21:58:26 -0400, Cybe R. Wizard <cybe_r...@wizardstower.invalid> wrote:

> Indeed, although it would allow dyed-in-the-wool Win devotees to
> actually learn some useful tools from the GNU and Linux toolbox without
> actually going over to the, "dark side," and really installing a Linux
> distro.

My very first linux usage was with asplinux, which allowed running under windows.
Once I was comfortable with linux/bash commands and scripting, I then went dual
boot, and now linux only.

Regards, Dave Hodgins

--
Change dwho...@nomail.afraid.org to davidw...@teksavvy.com for
email replies.

[Jolly Man]

On 17/05/2020 04:30, Arlen Holder wrote:
>
> Q: *What is the command to download the Ubuntu 20.04 WSL file?*

I'm sure you'll tell us when you've found the answer.

[Mike Easter]

Arlen Holder wrote:
> What I'm asking newsgroup help on is to fix the cut-and-paste command:

Before you can achieve a cut&paste, you must understand:

There are 3 routes to installing Ub on WSL,

Installing Ubuntu on WSL via the Microsoft Store

Installing Ubuntu on WSL via rootfs
Installing Ubuntu on WSL by sideloading the .appx

Call them MSs, rootfs, & appx; all WSL.

Currently, the rootfs and MSs methods can access a Ub 20.04 file, but
appx can only access older Ub 16.04 & 18.04 files.

You cannot achieve any kind of success for 20.04, c&p or not, using the
appx method.

IMO, one should start w/ the *most practical* method for 20.04 first,
then try to be more restrictive; rather than starting from the most
demanding/restrictive and in this case *impossible* approach to suit a whim.

The most practical for 20.04 is MSs as described in the
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WSL link. I'm not really sure that your appx
method/s completely escape the MSs because there is a necessary MSs step
to embrace the WSL first that seems unavoidable, but I could be wrong
about that.

--
Mike Easter

[Paul]

Arlen Holder wrote:

>
> But, as noted in this prior thread, I can't (yet) figure out how and the
> tutorial doesn't say (and nobody else has claimed to know yet either):
> o *Tutorial: How to enable the Telnet Client in Windows 10*

https://books.google.ca/books?id=PiSwjlEbGNoC&pg=PA214&lpg=PA214&dq=windows+posix+subsystem+telnet+-linux&source=bl&ots=x35MY6Cqm7&sig=ACfU3U3sT7Ev3C0XgCzXACMFkKGwCMOa0w&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiwpKuh-7npAhWQc98KHb7-BBwQ6AEwAXoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=windows%20posix%20subsystem%20telnet%20-linux&f=false

In Windows Vista, POSIX is part of an optional component
called Subsystem for Unix based applications.

Consequently, if it existed, it would be in
Control Panels : Programs and Features : Windows Features
as a tick box.

https://i.postimg.cc/RFQkgTs6/telnet-client.gif

Paul

[Arlen Holder]

On Sun, 16 May 2020 17:50:00 -1000, Jolly Man wrote:

> I'm sure you'll tell us when you've found the answer.

I'm testing out all sorts of commands, as we speak...
o But I'm hoping I'm not the first person on the planet who did this.

In general, I look, and then I ask, but I don't hold out for the answer so
I keep looking, since most people on Usenet just want to chit chat and I'm
looking for answers (I don't care one whit about chit chat).

So far, these work to obtain a Ubuntu WSL image:

c:> curl.exe -L -o ubuntu-1604.appx https://aka.ms/wsl-ubuntu-1604

c:> curl.exe -L -o ubuntu-1804.appx https://aka.ms/wsl-ubuntu-1804
ps> Invoke-WebRequest -Uri https://aka.ms/wsl-ubuntu-1604 -OutFile Ubuntu.appx -UseBasicParsing
ps> Invoke-WebRequest -Uri https://aka.ms/wsl-ubuntu-1804 -OutFile Ubuntu.appx -UseBasicParsing

But these fail:
c:> curl.exe -L -o ubuntu-1704.appx https://aka.ms/wsl-ubuntu-1704
c:> curl.exe -L -o ubuntu-1904.appx https://aka.ms/wsl-ubuntu-1904
c:> curl.exe -L -o ubuntu-2004.appx https://aka.ms/wsl-ubuntu-2004
ps> Invoke-WebRequest -Uri https://aka.ms/wsl-ubuntu-1704 -OutFile Ubuntu.appx -UseBasicParsing
ps> Invoke-WebRequest -Uri https://aka.ms/wsl-ubuntu-1904 -OutFile Ubuntu.appx -UseBasicParsing
ps> Invoke-WebRequest -Uri https://aka.ms/wsl-ubuntu-2004 -OutFile Ubuntu.appx -UseBasicParsing

The question is what cut-&-paste command downloads Ubuntu 20.04 for WSL?
--
If anyone has done it, they'll already know the answer (unless I'm first).

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 16 May 2020 20:53:13 -0700, Mike Easter wrote:

> IMO, one should start w/ the *most practical* method for 20.04 first,
> then try to be more restrictive; rather than starting from the most
> demanding/restrictive and in this case *impossible* approach to suit a whim.

Hi Mike,

Thanks for your advice that there are three ways:
1. The Microsoft Store
2. The RootFS method
3. The SideLoad appx method (of the Microsoft Store).

As you're aware from the telnet, thread, I tried all three.
o In that exact order of MS Store 1st, RootFS 2nd, & appx SideLoad 3rd.

Here's my documentation of that fact I tried all three in that order:
o Tutorial: How to enable the Telnet Client in Windows 10
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.comp.freeware/pEhuvzzFBTU/zpKTILzlAQAJ>

The first two methods instantly failed, but I succeeded on the third.
o So I didn't backtrack - which is kind of how these things work out.
<https://i.postimg.cc/NMS0YV4S/wsl05.jpg>

As you're aware, stuff like that happens when either the tutorials suck
o Or when you're doing things for the first time ever.

1. For example, this was my first time ever using the Microsoft Store.
<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/ubuntu-2004-lts/9n6svws3rx71>

2. It was also my first time ever trying the RootFS methods:
<https://cloud-images.ubuntu.com/focal/current/>

3. Likewise it was my first time using the sideload of the MS Store:

curl.exe -L -o ubuntu-1604.appx https://aka.ms/wsl-ubuntu-1604

curl.exe -L -o ubuntu-1804.appx https://aka.ms/wsl-ubuntu-1804

The first two failed, but for different reasons.
o The third worked beautifully, but not for Ubuntu 20.04.

Such stuff happens when you're doing stuff for the first time.

Given I don't have any desire to figure out why the Windows Store failed,
and given there isn't an aspx that I could find that I could sideload,
the rootfs method would be just fine - if I could figure out the command.
--
When you do things for the first time, a good step-by-step tutorial helps.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 16 May 2020 23:59:28 -0400, Paul wrote:

> Consequently, if it existed, it would be in
> Control Panels : Programs and Features : Windows Features
> as a tick box

Hi Paul,
I'm a bit confused by your post (the book didn't show up, but the image
did); but I know you're one of the few people on this ng who are almost
always purposefully helpful; so I appreciate your help.

Given the book didn't show up, I'm not sure your key point but, from the
image, if you're trying to tell us how to GRAPHICALLY enable WSL, yes, we
know there is a graphical method (just like there was for telnet).

For reasons stated in the telnet tutorial, there are a host of advantages
and disadvantages to graphical methods, but one of the disadvantages of
describing a graphical method for a text tutorial is that they're a bitch
to describe (and they often change)...

Compare the "simplicity" of "cut-and-paste" tutorials where we simply tell
the user to cut and paste either one of these two lines:

PS> dism.exe /online /enable-feature /featurename:Microsoft-Windows-Subsystem-Linux /all /norestart

PS> Enable-WindowsOptionalFeature -Online -FeatureName Microsoft-Windows-Subsystem-Linux

If I understand what you were trying to tell us, either one of those two
lines instantly suffices to "enable" WSL... where the point is that, for a
text-only tutorial, it's far _easier_ and more reliable to point to either
one of those two lines, than it is to explain the multiple graphical steps
to accomplish the same task.

Mike Easter explained a lot more to me, which means that I may just give up
since Ubuntu 18.04 is working just fine in the WSL, which I had working
before I started this thread.

I was just trying to find a command line that works for 20.04; that's all.
--
When doing things for the first time, there's usually a bit of confusion.

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-05-16 11:22 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Sat, 16 May 2020 23:59:28 -0400, Paul wrote:
>
>> Consequently, if it existed, it would be in
>> Control Panels : Programs and Features : Windows Features
>> as a tick box
> Hi Paul,

> I'm a bit confused...

The first true thing you've said in a long time.

Tell me:

Did you finally figure out how to pin the "Run" command to the taskbar...

...or do I have to explain it again more slowly?

:-)

[Dan Purgert]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Chris wrote:
> [...]

> My dream would be that Windows simply becomes a WM on top of a Linux
> kernel.

Systemd-windowd?


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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=oLGT
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--
|_|O|_| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|_|_|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1 E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860
|O|O|O| Former PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5 4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

[Mike Easter]

Arlen Holder wrote:
> The first two methods instantly failed, but I succeeded on the third.

Your priorities in this matter are very different from my own.

- I have no interest in win10 wsl
- my attitudes about privacy are different from yours
- I have no interest in doing anything w/ ios/osx

Because...

- I merely 'tinker' w/ win10 as I also tinker w/ various linux distro/s
- I mostly 'live' in linux, so all its features are always available
to me w/o wsl
- my attitudes about privacy and finding information online don't
involve regular use of VPN nor 'masking' my browser and when I use a
general search engine, it is familiar w/ my past and serves me better
that way
- but a general search engine is almost never the first place/way I go
to get info
- because I have plenty of old computers which are mostly not rich in
resources, I also don't use VMs but instead I boot an OS of choice on a
box within 'reach' which is 5, 4 of them on two monitors and kb/mouse w/
KVM switching. 2 more are slightly out of reach
- here's a linux, there's (potentially) an XP, there a win7, there a
win10, but all of those are also likely to be running some linux
- some nice winware runs fine on wine else I use some real win ie xp
or 7, almost never in win10 'tho.

--
Mike Easter

[Arlen Holder]

On Sun, 17 May 2020 13:59:22 -0700, Mike Easter wrote:

> Your priorities in this matter are very different from my own.

Hi Mike,

I figured it out (see revised cut&paste tutorial included below):
$ uname -mrs
Linux 4.4.0-18362-Microsoft x86_64
$ lsb_release -d
Description: Ubuntu 19.10
$ cat /etc/*release|grep VERSION=
VERSION="19.10 (Eoan Ermine)"
$ uname -a
Linux {pcname} 4.4.0-18362-Microsoft #476-Microsoft Fri Nov 01 16:53:00 PST 2019 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux

However on your suggestion each person's priorities are different...
o I understand you on that and will never disagree.

Adults should never disagree on facts... (facts are funny that way)...
o And yet, adults can reasonably & logically disagree on priorities.
(adults are funny that way)

The facts are that you can easily install linux/wsl from the command line
o Sans any GUI whatsoever, nor any need to log into anything.

You just cut-and-paste the commands I've reproduced below.
o After testing on two different Windows 10 Pro machines.

All along, my priorities were clearly stated in the opening post, namely:
a. *To provide a cut-and-paste tutorial* if people want it, and,
b. For others to help improve that tutorial;
c. So that everyone benefits from the combined effort.

It should be clear that I strive to write gen-purpose tutorials
o The whole goal is to "add value" to Usenet newsgroups where I can.

All I ever ask in that endeavor is your purposefully helpful advice.

> - I have no interest in win10 wsl

Me neither.
o My goal is "sed", "awk", "grep", "tr", etc. inside of Windows.

Oh, and "vi", of course! :)
o *Quick customized-installation tutorial for setting up gVim on Windows*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/BpPrLrSCza4/4fyzTCGFCAAJ>

> - my attitudes about privacy are different from yours

Would it help if you knew I had (long ago) a TSSI security clearance?
o Remember, I've been in Silicon Valley high tech for decades.

Now that I'm retired, I strive for as few logins as humanly possible
o The good news is you can install Linux inside WSL sans login.

> - I have no interest in doing anything w/ ios/osx

My goal, always, is generic cross platform compatibility
o Among _all_ the common consumer platform operating systems

Generally, all platforms work fine with Android & Windows & Linux
o The one platform I own that is a compatibility issue is iOS

Luckily, Ubuntu 18.04 handles iOS absolutely perfectly
o There's no need for the iTunes abomination when you have Ubuntu!

> Because...
> - I merely 'tinker' w/ win10 as I also tinker w/ various linux distro/s
> - I mostly 'live' in linux, so all its features are always available
> to me w/o wsl

I _love_ Linux, and, in fact, I'm perplexed about Linux' future...

Why, for example, did cellphones DESTROY Garmin personal GPS
o While, for example, open-office suites did NOT destroy M$ Office.

There's something "fundamental" about payware M$ Office that's key.
o Since Linux does everything else that Windows does, IMHO, with aplomb.

> - because I have plenty of old computers which are mostly not rich in
> resources, I also don't use VMs but instead I boot an OS of choice on a
> box within 'reach' which is 5, 4 of them on two monitors and kb/mouse w/
> KVM switching. 2 more are slightly out of reach

I too have all old computers (they are still BIOS, for example)...
o My point about VMs and Cygwin and Docker, etc., are we tried all of them.

This Linux inside of WSL "promises" to be "more convenient" than dual boot.
o Time will tell if I also ditch Linux inside of WSL though...

> - here's a linux, there's (potentially) an XP, there a win7, there a
> win10, but all of those are also likely to be running some linux

I've had 'em all... just like most people here.
o IMHO, Windows is Windows is Windows (they all do exactly the same thing).

Same with Linux, although I break Linux into a couple of flavors.
o Personally, I only use CentOS and Ubuntu - thank God Unity died!

> - some nice winware runs fine on wine else I use some real win ie xp
> or 7, almost never in win10 'tho.

Yikes! I had forgotten about WINE. OMG! What an abomination (IMHO).
o Like everyone here, I've tried 'em all and ditched 'em over time.

My "hope" is that this new "Linux inside of WSL" is "more convenient" than
o Dual boot with Grub
o Docker
o Cygwin
o Linux inside of VMs
o emulators galore
etc.

As an example of "convenience", I've written tutorials on installing Linux
in a Windows VM, where they're looooooooooooooooooong (and detailed because
there are so many gotchas, not the list with respect to AMD vs Intel CPUs).

Nonetheless, I feel good that I can offer a quick cut-and-paste tutorial
for Windows 10 users that allows them, in minutes, to be up and running
with Ubuntu 18.03 inside of Windows in a WSL, thanks to your kind help!

To that end, I tested (and honed) the tutorial using another computer:

1. Obtain the Linux distribution of your choice (e.g., Ubuntu 18.04):
Win+R > cmd{enter}
C:> curl.exe -L -o ubuntu-1804.appx https://aka.ms/wsl-ubuntu-1804
...or...
Win+R > powershell{enter}
PS> Invoke-WebRequest -Uri https://aka.ms/wsl-ubuntu-1804 -OutFile Ubuntu.appx -UseBasicParsing

This is the hash of the appx file I downloaded for this tutorial:
Name: ubuntu-1804.appx

Size: 224629284 bytes (214 MiB)
SHA256: 96E4E3E336F08DDE1DF81FA9C266C5C7750BA92729857E92BDE36BF84A1DB002

2. Enable WSL (aka Windows subsystem for Linux):
Win+R > run{control+shift+enter}
C:> dism.exe /online /enable-feature /featurename:Microsoft-Windows-Subsystem-Linux /all /norestart
...or...
Win+R > powershell{control+shift+enter}

PS> Enable-WindowsOptionalFeature -Online -FeatureName Microsoft-Windows-Subsystem-Linux

3. Sideload that Linux distribution of your choice:
Win+R > powershell{enter}
PS> Add-AppxPackage -Path ".\ubuntu-1804.appx"

Note the {control+shift+enter} key sequence performs admin magic:
o *What Windows "magic" invokes a command window as an Administrator*
*window simply by using Control+Shift+Enter versus Enter?*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.msdos.batch/ee2rqSSOkS4/kmdsXWC1AgAJ>

4. Reboot
Win+R > shutdown.exe /r /f /t 5 /c "Reboot in 5 seconds!"

Note: Before you reboot, you'll get this message from wsl:
Win+R > cmd{enter}
C:> wsl
'wsl' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
operable program or batch file.
Note: After you reboot, you'll get this message from wsl:
Win+R > cmd{enter}

C:> wsl
Windows Subsystem for Linux has no installed distributions.
Distributions can be installed by visiting the Microsoft Store:
https://aka.ms/wslstore

Note: Before you reboot, you'll get this message from ubuntu1804.exe:
Win+R > cmd{enter}

C:> ubuntu1804.exe
Installing, this may take a few minutes...

WslRegisterDistribution failed with error: 0x8007019e
The Windows Subsystem for Linux optional component is not enabled.
Please enable it and try again.
See https://aka.ms/wslinstall for details.
Press any key to continue...
Note this is, I think, the default location for "ubuntu18.04.exe":
C:\users\{uname}\appdata\local\microsoft\windowsapps\ubuntu1804.exe
See also:
o *Shutdown or Restart Windows without bickering*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/Ou___EcjwKo/7XMKgWp7BQAJ>

5. After rebooting, install Ubuntu 18.04 as a WSL inside Windows:
Win+R > cmd{enter}

C:> ubuntu1804.exe
Installing, this may take a few minutes...
Please create a default UNIX user account.
The username does not need to match your Windows username.
For more information visit: https://aka.ms/wslusers

Enter new UNIX username: {enter a uname}
Enter new UNIX password: {enter a passwd}
Retype new UNIX password: {re-enter that passwd}

passwd: password updated successfully
Installation successful!
To run a command as administrator (user "root"), use "sudo <command>".
See "man sudo_root" for details.

{uname}@P{pcname}:~$
$ uname -mrs
Linux 4.4.0-18362-Microsoft x86_64
$ lsb_release -d
Description: Ubuntu 18.04.1 LTS
$ cat /etc/*release|grep VERSION=
VERSION="18.04.1 LTS (Bionic Beaver)"
$ uname -a
Linux {pcname} 4.4.0-18362-Microsoft #476-Microsoft Fri Nov 01 16:53:00 PST 2019 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux

6. Exit out of the Ubuntu 18.04 inside of WSL:
$ exit
C:> exit

7. Enter back into WSL any time you need Linux inside of Windows WSL:
Win+R > wsl{enter}
...or...
Win+R > ubuntu1804.exe{enter}
...or...
Note you can easily pin the resulting command window to the taskbar.

Voila!

Potential commands to update/upgrade might be...
$ man locate
$ locate issue {this is a fast-find feature of Linux}
$ sudo updateb {this updates the fast-find db; warning it takes time!}
$ cat /etc/issue
$ cat /etc/os-release
$ man do-release-upgrade
$ locate release-upgrades
$ sudo vi do-release-upgrade {set prompt=normal to "release-upgrades"}
$ sudo vi /etc/update-manager/release-upgrades
Change from: Prompt=lts
Change to: Prompt=normal.
$ sudo do-release-upgrade {this will fail due to the need for lxd}
$ sudo dpkg --force depends -P lxd; sudo dpkg --force depends -P lxd-client
And now, the fun begins...
$ sudo apt-get update
$ sudo apt-get upgrade
$ sudo apt install update-manager-core
$ sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
etc.

Note for suggestions on how to handle prompts, please see:
o *Upgrade Windows Subsystem Linux - Ubuntu 18.04 to Ubuntu 19.10*
<https://thelocalhost.blog/2020/01/28/update-wsl-ubuntu-from-18.10-to-19.10/>

As always, please test & improve so all benefit from every action.
--
The best tutorials are those that a noob can run & they still work.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sun, 17 May 2020 04:09:41 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> The question is what cut-&-paste command downloads Ubuntu 20.04 for WSL?

Bearing in mind the goal is a 100% command-line cut-&-paste tutorial...
o For Windows noobs to be up and running in the latest Ubuntu in minutes...

I've updated the WSL from Ubuntu 18.04 to Ubuntu 19.10 using the specific
commands rather well outlined in this nice keeper tutorial...

o *Upgrade Windows Subsystem Linux - Ubuntu 18.04 to Ubuntu 19.10*
<https://thelocalhost.blog/2020/01/28/update-wsl-ubuntu-from-18.10-to-19.10/>

So now we just need to figure out how to update from 19.10 to 20.04.
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/PV4Shdb67iM/V5kjlk4XAgAJ>

You'd think the _same_ commands would work to update 19.10 to 20.04...
o But they didn't work for me when I just tried it now.

It would help if we knew how the native Linux users did that themselves.
o On Ubuntu 19.10, how do you update to 20.04 using only the command line?
--
Usenet is a public helpdesk where purposefully helpful adults add value.

[Mike Easter]

Arlen Holder wrote:

> Mike Easter wrote:
>
>> - I have no interest in win10 wsl
>
> Me neither.
> o My goal is "sed", "awk", "grep", "tr", etc. inside of Windows.
>

I don't do that inside win.

>
>> - because I have plenty of old computers which are mostly not rich in
>> resources, I also don't use VMs but instead I boot an OS of choice on a
>> box within 'reach' which is 5, 4 of them on two monitors and kb/mouse w/
>> KVM switching. 2 more are slightly out of reach
>

Actually, not 2, 3 more out of reach, 1 RPi, 1 Chromebook, 1 ancient
32bit Dell laptop. An old Vista laptop died, which was another.

>
> o Personally, I only use CentOS and Ubuntu - thank God Unity died!
>

You are missing out on some great distro/s. (But) Those 2 are important
for understanding where the enterprise is by representing Canonical and
RedHat.

Also, Unity is still very much alive; it didn't make it as the Ub flagship.

> Potential commands to update/upgrade might be...

The business about upgrading to the next distro is very likely to be
fraught w/ peril, as the WSL Ub is distinctly not the same as
conventional Ub:

From the Ub WSL page I've already cited a couple of times:

> Keeping Ubuntu Updated in WSL
>
> WSL runs its own specialized init system instead of SystemD and does not run standard Ubuntu services. Due to the services not running software updates are not applied automatically. Please keep your WSL installation using APT maintenance commands regularly. This can be accomplished with an occasional:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WSL#Keeping_Ubuntu_Updated_in_WSL

This next article is mostly taken up w/ graphics about upgrading to
20.04, but the bottom part handles doing it on a server, which was done
w/ commands instead of graphically. That upgrade has more steps than
simply updating.

https://www.tecmint.com/upgrade-to-ubuntu-20-04/
How to Upgrade to Ubuntu 20.04 from Ubuntu 18.04 & 19.10

See section: Upgrading to Ubuntu 20.04 from Ubuntu 18.04 LTS or 19.10 Server

I have no idea whether that will work for the WSL Ub or not, since wsl
is NOT conventional Ub, or even conventional 'upstream'. I don't know
how much is different besides the init system and all of the services
associated w/ systemd. That is not a small difference from
conventional. The distro which I know that has done the best job of
'handling' a departure from systemd is MX Linux, which has some systemd
'stub' strategies and also keeps systemd in a dormant state which can be
activated during boot w/ a parameter.


--
Mike Easter

[Mike Easter]

Mike Easter wrote:
> I have no idea whether that will work for the WSL Ub or not, since wsl
> is NOT conventional Ub, or even conventional 'upstream'.  I don't know
> how much is different besides the init system and all of the services
> associated w/ systemd.  That is not a small difference from conventional.

Now I'm learning some more about WSL's Ub. It is VERY different from
conventional Ub. WSL provides the/a 'linux' kernel (sorta) and the role
of the Ub is to provide the *user space* gnu tools, ie MS kernel + Ub gnu.

That is a far far cry from being an Ub (or other distro which may
provide services for this WSL kernel idea).

--
Mike Easter

[Frank Slootweg]

[Newsgroups restored.]

J.O. Aho <us...@example.net> wrote:
> On 16/05/2020 22.29, Chris wrote:

> > Kenny McCormack <gaz...@shell.xmission.com> wrote:
>
> >> Another theory is that MS's OS division is pretty much at EOL and they're
> >> just casting around for something to do. The CW is that MS doesn't make
> >> much money anymore on either OS or, for that matter, office software. All
> >> the money is in the cloud services stuff.
> >
> > My dream would be that Windows simply becomes a WM on top of a Linux
> > kernel.
>

> This has been suggested by some senior developers within microsoft with
> an estimation of 6 months to port the major applications if microsoft
> would ever manage to work as a team instead of each department seeing
> the others as dangerous rivals.

Maybe I don't understand what you're saying, but if applications need
to be ported, it's - AFAIC - a non-starter.

[Mike Easter]

Mike Easter wrote:
>
>  - I have no interest in win10 wsl
>

>  - I merely 'tinker' w/ win10 as I also tinker w/ various linux distro/s
>  - I mostly 'live' in linux, so all its features are always available
> to me w/o wsl

>  - some nice winware runs fine on wine else I use some real win ie xp
> or 7, almost never in win10 'tho.
>

Now that I understand better about WSL incl wsl2 running a MS invention
resembling a linux kernel, I am even more sure that whatever I want to
do linux, I would be *MUCH* better off doing it in a real linux using a
linux kernel as opposed to whatever thing MS has invented resembling a
linux kernel which is able to run some gnu user space linux ware.

I can run some windows on a separate machine if I want to do something
which requires win. For purposes of 'crossing over' between winware and
linuxware, I believe that the resources of:

- separate machines running linux here, win there w/ KVM device switch
-or-
- a linux doing some winware w/ wine (which continues to improve) or a VM
- some win doing linux w/ cygwin (I prefer real linux to do linux)

... would satisfy any need I can currently conceive.

My experience w/ win10 isn't all that positive; I prefer the win
environments of win7 (or even XP) for various things which need a win
OS. I don't use any win as my everyday desktop.

To me, the only 'purpose' for win10 is for a person who wants to use a
win for everyday OS and who requires a more modern OS than win7.

But, for a linux user who needs an occasional real winOS, win7 works
perfectly fine, and so does XP for some purposes.

--
Mike Easter

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 18 May 2020 07:58:47 -0700, Mike Easter wrote:

> That is a far far cry from being an Ub (or other distro which may
> provide services for this WSL kernel idea).

Hi Mike,

Thanks for that purposefully helpful advice, where, my _main_ goal of
posting the _tutorial_ was always simply to provide a valuable tutorial for
others to be able to test out the WSL in minutes, simply by pasting a
handful of cut-&-paste commands.

We've accomplished that, thanks to your help where it's important to note
this thread proceeded much like most Usenet threads in that...
1. I tried to add value and to ask questions when I was stuck...
2. You provided advice which got me past the key sticking spots...
3. Most everyone else merely chatted which, was fine, but wasn't on topic.
4. As always, some subtracted value in every post (e.g., Alan Baker).

But, for the most part, the well-known trolls stayed out...
o Hence we were able to have a polite discussion that added value

In terms of adding value, I thank you for pointing out that "updating" WSL
is fraught with peril, although the update from Ubuntu 18.04 to 19.10
worked just fine (I think).

Nonetheless, my main goal (always) is simply to create a general-purpose
tutorial, where I simply figured more people would want it if it was up to
date on Ubuntu 20.04 than if it's "stuck" (for now) on Ubuntu 19.10.

With the tutorial's purpose described, my purpose in WSL for Linux is
simply, as I noted, so that I can use the Linux commands that are slowly
waning in my finger memory, such as "sed", "awk", "tr", "grep", "locate",
etc. while I'm in Windows.

So far, I found WSL useful to munge the DXOMark cut & paste of the top 100
or so mobile reviews, since there are _columns_ of data nowadays, & not
just one score (which my vi finger memory doesn't handle but "col" does!).
<https://www.dxomark.com/category/smartphone-reviews/>

In summary, unless someone _improves_ what I wrote, it's the best we have.
a. In a few minutes, anyone should be up & running on WSL in Linux
b. In a split second, sans rebooting, I can switch between Win & Linux
--
Usenet is wondrous when everyone is purposefully helpful & polite.

[Chris]

Paul <nos...@needed.invalid> wrote:

> Kenny McCormack wrote:
>> In article <hi9n05...@mid.individual.net>,

>> J.O. Aho <us...@example.net> wrote:
>>> On 16/05/2020 10.19, Arlen Holder wrote:
>>>> Tutorial for setting up Ubuntu as a Windows Subsystem for Linux WSL in Windows 10
>>

>> Who is the target audience?
>
> They claimed it was the Azure customers who would use this.
>

> I had a lot of trouble believing in this "mythical creature".
> I could see no evidence of such animals in the wild.
>
> But they haven't stopped working on this WSL concept,
> adding some sort of "kernel" to the picture. To
> impress us ? Dunno.

>
> It had all the appearances of a bar bet, or a running gag.
>

> It was a lot of fun for about the first three days,
> when some people got an X server running on Windows
> and got Firefox running from WSL, on the Windows desktop.
> But other than that, it's been pretty quiet as subsystems go.
>
> If you'd previously needed this stuff, the ten years old
> GNUWIN32 items on Sourceforge, handle most of this. Or you
> could use Cygwin. A third platform ? Hmmm.

Cygwin is awful. I gave up on it a looong time ago. All the others were
worse. The only genuine options were dual-boot (tedious and Windows tended
to break it) or a VM (clunky).

Being able to have a genuine (almost) *nix terminal built into Windows is
great. It's one of the reasons I like macOS so much. Anyone with scientific
research interests needs a *nix terminal to access HPC and/or run workflows
locally. There's a whole (if niche) market there for Microsoft to capture.

If WSL could be depended on, it would be great. Better integration with the
native filesystem (in both directions) is seriously needed, though.

> Paul
>

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 18 May 2020 10:48:13 -0700, Mike Easter wrote:

> But, for a linux user who needs an occasional real winOS, win7 works
> perfectly fine, and so does XP for some purposes.

Hi Mike,

Thanks for your insight, where it's perfect we're having this discussion:
a. You're a Linux user who only needs Windows when he needs it...
b. I'm an ex SunOS/Solaris user who only needs Linux when I need it.

Together, we can sort of summarize how this may or may not be useful to
everyone else, since we're coming at the solution from two directions.

Always bear in mind the _main_ purpose of this _tutorial_ thread was never
to debate why anyone would want such a thing as Windows inside of Linux or
Linux inside of Windows, but it's a good topic in and of itself, I'm sure.

For me, I am _happy_ that I can "munge" Windows data using "sort", "diff",
"sed", "awk", "grep", "col", "cut", "tr", "comm", etc.,

Simply & _instantly_ by typing "wsl" in Win10:
o Win+R > wsl

Voila!

Once there, my "finger memory" still remembers basic commands such as:
o col -b
o cut
o sort -u
o diff
o touch/more/less/cat/head/tail | grep, etc.
o !-1:gs/foo/bar (go back one line, global search & replace foo with bar)
etc.

Those of us who grew up with UNIX are almost completely crippled on Windows
when it comes to using those simple commands that are still on your finger
memory (but waning on mine). It's why we bothered with Cygwin after all.

Having tried them all, and found them all to be kludges, I'm hoping this
Linux inside of Windows will be a boon to those of us who should now, I
hope, no longer be crippled by the lack of batch processing commands in
Windows.

The beauty is that this conversation will be in the permanent archives:
o <http://tinyurl.com/alt-os-linux>
o <http://tinyurl.com/alt-comp-freeware>
o <http://alt.comp.os.windows-10.narkive.com> (this sucks)
o <http://tinyurl.com/alt-msdos-batch> (I'll post the tutorial there)
etc.

As always, if folks can _improve_ the tutorial, that's added value!
--
Now anyone can run Linux commands inside of Windows any time they want.

[Mike Easter]

Arlen Holder wrote:
> In a split second, sans rebooting, I can switch between Win & Linux

So can I w/o using a bogus MS linux kernel or some v. of Win I don't
like much.

I can be running any one of dozens of linux distros often live or
persistent and instantly KVM switch to a Win environment. One win I use
is an XP which is USB connected directly to a scanner/printer and does
faxing w/ MS faxware and an internal winmodem; another I use is a Win7
which also has fax capabilities via an external serial modem. Both of
those modems are able to fax via VoIP. I also use the Win7 machine's
storage and torrent app and Win USB writing tools for torrent dl/ing and
writing linux .iso/s to USB. That machine also is used to boot linux live.

Only 2 machines here have 8G ram, the rest are 4 and 2 and 1.

The laptop w/ win10 is usually used to boot a MX Linux which has a
clever strategy for persistence and/or frugal install behavior w/o
needing a part for linux. But I don't travel w/ that laptop as I prefer
the lighter weight and longer legged battery life Chromebook for travel.

I have 2 2-part KVM switches serving one station so I can flip or turn
to 4 different systems w/o rebooting anything. And that doesn't include
the win10 laptop which is also within reach. All of these machines of
course are also networked together and sharing.

--
Mike Easter

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 18 May 2020 13:10:39 -0700, Mike Easter wrote:

> So can I w/o using a bogus MS linux kernel or some v. of Win I don't
> like much.

Hi Mike,
Thanks for that advice, but clearly you haven't tried wsl. :)
o I have written tutorials using VMs in Windows where I gave up on VMs.

They are a bitch.
o They're slow. They're heavy. They're fraught with peril.

In a word, IMHO, VMs suck.
o At least compared to the beauty of a grub dual boot, they suck.

I've had VM problems with the virtual machine setting on Windows
o And VM problems with the differences between AMD & Intel CPUs

And, worse (which I suspect WSL also suffers from)...
o They suck at working with the hardware as well as a native OS does

> I can be running any one of dozens of linux distros often live or
> persistent and instantly KVM switch to a Win environment.

I get that you use a kernel based VM, and maybe they don't suck.
o My experience is with VirtualBox (and VMWare long ago).

And they suck. (IMHO)

> One win I use
> is an XP which is USB connected directly to a scanner/printer

Hehhehheh... I have an old 500MB RAM Windows XP laptop with no screen
anymore nor a battery so it's a desktop that is _only_ for my scanning too!

> I also use the Win7 machine's
> storage and torrent app and Win USB writing tools for torrent dl/ing and
> writing linux .iso/s to USB. That machine also is used to boot linux live.

Hehhehheh... I went through _all_ the Windows from the stuff before Win95
to Win96, XP, Vista, Win7, Win8 (abomination), and Win10.

Surprisingly, we found out they're all the same in the end...where,
shockingly, about 40 people in about 300 posts couldn't come up with even a
dozen useful things you can't do on WinXP that you can do on the newer
Windows versions.
o *What can you do on Windows 10 that you can't do on Windows XP or Windows 7?*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/fJBY472ds3E/W539WlUTAwAJ>

> Only 2 machines here have 8G ram, the rest are 4 and 2 and 1.

Hehhehhehheh. My WinXP machine is 1/2 of a GB of RAM!
o HINT: It's unplugged from the net and it's from the pre wireless era.

> The laptop w/ win10 is usually used to boot a MX Linux which has a
> clever strategy for persistence and/or frugal install behavior w/o
> needing a part for linux. But I don't travel w/ that laptop as I prefer
> the lighter weight and longer legged battery life Chromebook for travel.

I would love a _dedicated_ Linux spare laptop to run a CalDav server.
o *Has anyone here ever set up a CalDAV server on Windows*
*for use with Android CalDAV clients?*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.comp.freeware/9-8Wkq5otVA/LVJtqd-6CAAJ>

> I have 2 2-part KVM switches serving one station so I can flip or turn
> to 4 different systems w/o rebooting anything. And that doesn't include
> the win10 laptop which is also within reach. All of these machines of
> course are also networked together and sharing.

Adults should never disagree on facts (facts are funny that way),
o But adults can easily disagree on assessments (adults are funny that way)

You assess KVMs as wondrous things (and that's fine)...
o I assess VMs that I've used, as horrid things (and that's fine also).

For me, one of my key goals has been attained in this thread
o Where it's _always_ the same goals for _all_ my tutorials

And, where it's always 1 out of 100 that is purposefully helpful.
o And about 25 out of 100 who literally add _negative_ value.

Luckily, you and Paul are two of the purposefully helpful folks.
o And I've written a _lot_ of purposefully helpful tutorials too! (NOTE 1).

Hence... I met half my goal of posting this thread for others to benefit:
o The goal of supplying a general purpose c&p tutorial has been achieved
o The goal of _improving_ that tutorial wasn't necessarily accomplished

Yet. :)
(someone may have more information than I do on updating to 20.04)
(plus, adding _graphical_ tools should be a future update)
(as would be connecting to hardware, such as iOS over USB)
etc.

All tutorials can be improved with help from purposefully helpful adults.
--
NOTE 1: I hesitate to suggest how many tutorials I've written because the
worthless pieces of shit trolls who can't ever add any value to any thread,
will jump on _that_ number!

[Mike Easter]

Arlen Holder wrote:
> I get that you use a kernel based VM

au contraire, Pierre. I don't use a VM at all.

I mostly use conventional linux, live w/ or w/o persistence or frugal
install, or installed; and I 'flip' to a genuine - NOT VM - Win, such as
XP or Win7, usually not Win10.

I don't use VMs because most of my hardware doesn't have enough
resources to run two OSes, and even that which does I prefer to do it
with the KVM switch.

You are misinterpreting my use of the acronym KVM. My 2 KVMs are a
'two-way' switch using the Keyboard Video (monitor) Mouse between two
desktop machines. Not the KVM of kernel virtual machine. There are
also KVMs which can do more than 2, but I've never had or used such, 3
or 4 port KVMs. Mine are both PS/2 not USB.

So, there are 4 desktops, 2 keyboards, 2 monitors, 2 mice, 1 chair which
can access both keyboards/mice/monitors.

--
Mike Easter

[Arlen Holder]

On Sun, 17 May 2020 11:19:11 +0200, J.O. Aho wrote:

> The problem with WSL is that you will have to reboot your system each
> time there been an OS or application update, compare that having the
> opposite way, you don't need to reboot for application updates and for
> kernel updates you have live patching, so you won't need to reboot in
> most kernel update either.
>
> This can already be archived with Xen, but that would be a Linux/Unix
> related thread, not a ms-windows one.

Methinks you need to buy a 'scale' to weigh the "problem" vs "value. :)

If rebooting a machine is "the problem" with WSL...
o Then I posit it's not a problem at all.

I find it strange that "the problem" is something as trivial as a reboot
o While "the value" is that we _instantly_ have powerful batch commands!

Comparing that _value_ to your "problem", seems skewed in favor of value.
o In fact, the "scale" seems _vastly_ skewed in favor of the "value"!

To get into Linux now, all I need to do is this:
o Win+R > wsl

To get back into Windows, all I need to do is this:
o $ exit

The "value" is that instantly gives us the command line value of Linux.
o Awk, sed, grep, comm, col, diff, tr, !command, !!, etc.

IMHO, the beauty is that all it takes is about a half dozen commands
o And then, all the command-line power of LInux is inside of Windows!

WIP: I need to figure out, over time, how to improve this tutorial
a. How to add graphical tools
b. How to interface with hardware (particularly iOS over USB)
and, perhaps less important...
c. How to update from Ubuntu 19.10 to 20.04, e.g.,

To that end, see:
o From the command line, how do you update Ubuntu 19.10 to 20.04?
<https://alt.os.linux.ubuntu.narkive.com/iCKbDOn6/from-the-command-line-how-do-you-update-ubuntu-19-10-to-20-04>

So far, it only has the snooty responses any small child can post.
--
Usenet is best when people post with purposefully helpful intentions.

[Chris]

Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid> wrote:
> Mike Easter wrote:
>>
>>  - I have no interest in win10 wsl
>>
>>  - I merely 'tinker' w/ win10 as I also tinker w/ various linux distro/s
>>  - I mostly 'live' in linux, so all its features are always available
>> to me w/o wsl
>
>>  - some nice winware runs fine on wine else I use some real win ie xp
>> or 7, almost never in win10 'tho.
>>
> Now that I understand better about WSL incl wsl2 running a MS invention
> resembling a linux kernel, I am even more sure that whatever I want to
> do linux, I would be *MUCH* better off doing it in a real linux using a
> linux kernel as opposed to whatever thing MS has invented resembling a
> linux kernel which is able to run some gnu user space linux ware.

What information is this based on?

> I can run some windows on a separate machine if I want to do something
> which requires win. For purposes of 'crossing over' between winware and
> linuxware, I believe that the resources of:
>
> - separate machines running linux here, win there w/ KVM device switch
> -or-
> - a linux doing some winware w/ wine (which continues to improve) or a VM
> - some win doing linux w/ cygwin (I prefer real linux to do linux)
>
> ... would satisfy any need I can currently conceive.
>
> My experience w/ win10 isn't all that positive; I prefer the win
> environments of win7 (or even XP) for various things which need a win
> OS. I don't use any win as my everyday desktop.
>
> To me, the only 'purpose' for win10 is for a person who wants to use a
> win for everyday OS and who requires a more modern OS than win7.

For me the only point of Windows 10 is to run high end games (e.g. VR), MS
office and support modern hardware.

[Mike Easter]

Chris wrote:
> Mike Easter

>>>
>> Now that I understand better about WSL incl wsl2 running a MS invention
>> resembling a linux kernel, I am even more sure that whatever I want to
>> do linux, I would be *MUCH* better off doing it in a real linux using a
>> linux kernel as opposed to whatever thing MS has invented resembling a
>> linux kernel which is able to run some gnu user space linux ware.
>
> What information is this based on?
>

Which part?

- wsl2 runs a MS invention resembling a linux kernel?
-or-
- my being sure I would be better off doing something linux in a real
linux (w/ a real tried and true and open source linux kernel) as opposed
to a MS-built linux kernel wannabe

>
> For me the only point of Windows 10 is to run high end games (e.g. VR), MS
> office and support modern hardware.
>

I don't know anything about that. I don't run high or low end games at
all, even when I was using an Atari in the 80s; the last time I used a
MS Office was w/ Win9x. I guess the newest hardware I have is a
refurb/ed Win10 laptop whose resources aren't all that great, so I also
run a frugal install (sorta like live, not like a conventional install)
of MX Linux which runs better on the weak resources than Win10 does.

Modern hardware does just fine w/ modern linux.

>> But, for a linux user who needs an occasional real winOS, win7 works
>> perfectly fine, and so does XP for some purposes.
>>

For my win needs, I prefer older v/s of Win.


--
Mike Easter

[David_B]

I searched for "Au contraire, Pierre"

I found this:-

https://gofile.io/d/3frsDP

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 18 May 2020 14:02:39 -0700, Mike Easter wrote:

> You are misinterpreting my use of the acronym KVM

Hi Mike,

Thanks for that courteous correction, where I had immediately looked up
"KVM" when you first used the term and found this, which is why I "assumed"
it was a Kernel Virtual Machine which is built into Linux:
o What is KVM?
<https://www.redhat.com/en/topics/virtualization/what-is-KVM>

I didn't delve deeper, as I had simply assumed it was:
"Kernel-based Virtual Machine (KVM) is an open source virtualization
technology built into Linux. Specifically, KVM lets you turn Linux
into a hypervisor that allows a host machine to run multiple,
isolated virtual environments called guests or virtual machines (VMs)."

We've both been on Usenet forever, so I'm especially appreciative that you
remained polite in correcting me, where I accept the correction and openly
admit my misinterpretation.

[Chris]

Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid> wrote:
> Chris wrote:
>> Mike Easter
>>>>
>>> Now that I understand better about WSL incl wsl2 running a MS invention
>>> resembling a linux kernel, I am even more sure that whatever I want to
>>> do linux, I would be *MUCH* better off doing it in a real linux using a
>>> linux kernel as opposed to whatever thing MS has invented resembling a
>>> linux kernel which is able to run some gnu user space linux ware.
>>
>> What information is this based on?
>>
> Which part?
>
> - wsl2 runs a MS invention resembling a linux kernel?

This bit.

[Paul]

Does it matter who made it ?

I expect Canonical gets a bit of coin, for
the contributions it's made so far to this project.

*******

WSL2 has limitations. See the word Hypervisor in this
slide ? You need a processor with SLAT/EPT for this to work.
This means the machine I'm typing on, the SSD I have with
the Win10 on it, will never run WSL2. Because there's no EPT
on the Intel processor. Only my Test Machine is new enough
for WSL2.

https://www.thomasmaurer.ch/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/WSL-2-Architecture.jpg

Note that VirtualBox is getting some changes made to it, so it too can
be shoehorned into a Hypervisor situation. This will give the
impression for a user, that they can run Hyper-V and VirtualBox
at the same time, when VirtualBox will end up being a sort of
Guest itself. Some sort of stacked virtualization at a guess.

Microsoft is aiming for a mess, and the more levels of container
they use, the less debuggable things will become. Process
Monitor will become a joke, in terms of understanding how
the machine got away from you. How much CPU am I really using ?
Who knows. Timmy ? Beuler ?

Linux is headed in the same sorry direction. I wanted to
help a guy debug a snap a few weeks ago... and I couldn't.
I made *zero* progress.

The future looks pretty bleak, if you're someone who
wants to help others with this shit.

Paul

[Kenny McCormack]

In article <r9vvbe$sb2$1...@dont-email.me>,
Johann Beretta <ber...@nun-ya-bizness.com> wrote:
>-=-=-=-=-=-

>
>On 5/18/20 2:05 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
>> I find it strange that "the problem" is something as trivial as a reboot
>> o While "the value" is that we _instantly_ have powerful batch commands!
>

>Then you don't understand that Linux is often used to power hardware
>that can't go down for trivial reboots.. These services need to be
>available with as few interruptions as possible.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that Windows WSL be used for any sort of
mission-critical application.

It is obviously just a casual-use sort of thing. Not that there is
anything wrong with that.

--
It's all Al Gore's fault...

[DecadentLinux...@decadence.org]

gaz...@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) wrote in
news:ra09or$aeq$3...@news.xmission.com:

I would much easier trust a Linux or BSD machine running VMs for
other OSes within it, and would NEVER trust that Windows of any color
could provide that ever.

Maybe one day we'll get someone smart enough to write a BIOS that
allows two OSes to boot up individually (or together)and switch
between them in session or have them both get metered "time slices"
of the system to work with.
Peripheral sharing is an issue though... :-)

[Chris]

Paul <nos...@needed.invalid> wrote:
> Chris wrote:
>> Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid> wrote:
>>> Chris wrote:
>>>> Mike Easter
>>>>> Now that I understand better about WSL incl wsl2 running a MS invention
>>>>> resembling a linux kernel, I am even more sure that whatever I want to
>>>>> do linux, I would be *MUCH* better off doing it in a real linux using a
>>>>> linux kernel as opposed to whatever thing MS has invented resembling a
>>>>> linux kernel which is able to run some gnu user space linux ware.
>>>> What information is this based on?
>>>>
>>> Which part?
>>>
>>> - wsl2 runs a MS invention resembling a linux kernel?
>>
>> This bit.
>
> Does it matter who made it ?

I'm not interested in who, but I'm curious in what the "invention" is. Mike
is suggesting that MS have bastardised the Linux kernel for WSL. Your
graphic suggests the kernel is running on a hypervisor. The former sounds
like a huge job for little benefit, whereas latter is simpler.

>
> I expect Canonical gets a bit of coin, for
> the contributions it's made so far to this project.

Do you think? MS is a big contributor to the Linux kernel already, why
would they need to pay anyone? SUSE is also available, are they being paid
as well?

[Paul]

DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
> gaz...@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) wrote in
> news:ra09or$aeq$3...@news.xmission.com:
>
>> In article <r9vvbe$sb2$1...@dont-email.me>,
>> Johann Beretta <ber...@nun-ya-bizness.com> wrote:
>>> -=-=-=-=-=-
>>>
>>> On 5/18/20 2:05 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
>>>> I find it strange that "the problem" is something as trivial as
>>>> a reboot o While "the value" is that we _instantly_ have
>>>> powerful batch commands!
>>> Then you don't understand that Linux is often used to power
>>> hardware that can't go down for trivial reboots.. These services
>>> need to be available with as few interruptions as possible.
>> I don't think anyone is suggesting that Windows WSL be used for
>> any sort of mission-critical application.
>>
>> It is obviously just a casual-use sort of thing. Not that there
>> is anything wrong with that.
>>
>
> I would much easier trust a Linux or BSD machine running VMs for
> other OSes within it, and would NEVER trust that Windows of any color
> could provide that ever.

It has Canonical package management, and you're downloading
stuff just like normal, if you add to the environment after install.

I'm sure Canonical in the contract, would have some details
spelled out as to who can mess with files.

The system may not currently have any built-in graphics
capability (because that would require it to "mesh" with
DWM). But in all other respects, should be very similar
to regular Linux. One thing that would be missing, is
/dev/sda, and the "mounted volumes" is as low as the
model goes. You can't "dd" the C: drive for example.
You can do "ls -R /mnt/c" in WSL bash. You would need
to use an account with "admin" to write to the root of
/mnt/c . Using your own Windows home directory is easier.

Paul

[Paul]

Chris wrote:

> Paul <nos...@needed.invalid> wrote:

>> I expect Canonical gets a bit of coin, for
>> the contributions it's made so far to this project.
>
> Do you think? MS is a big contributor to the Linux kernel already, why
> would they need to pay anyone? SUSE is also available, are they being paid
> as well?

It's a practical matter.

Microsoft doesn't want to reproduce the 100 person team
inside Canonical, to make WSL. I'm sure they'd fork over
a bit of their wodges of cash, to have a curated setup
delivered. The payment would in effect, be a "maintenance
contract". If a Windows customer spotted a bug, Microsoft
would forward the bug reference to Canonical for remedy.

Microsoft would not want to be forwarding the bug to
Debian or to some upstream, in effect making the 501th distro.
This really is Ubuntu or SUSE or whatever else they've thrown in.
And to grease the rails, you throw in a few million for
headcount to do the support.

Microsoft would play its part, gluing the subsystems into place
to make it work. But when it comes to ensuring that
15000 Debian packages work, paying a few bucks would
be a good deal for that aspect.

Canonical would not have been as "friendly" as its been,
unless some cash was involved. And Shuttleworth needs
deals like this, to show as proof of "open for business"
for his IPO.

Paul

[Mike Easter]

Chris wrote:

My understanding is that MS took an (old) 4.19 kernel and bent and
twisted and 'optimized' it in some unknown (to me) number of ways. The
goal was for it to still be able to virtually run gnu user space apps
and I guess some services (but not systemd ones) on certain hardware.

I have no skill at being able to interpret how different that kernel is,
but my understanding is that the kernel source is available for
examination/ ie open. So, the bent 4.19 kernel is ALSO frequently
'patched' and I believe those patches are also available/ open.

https://github.com/microsoft/WSL2-Linux-Kernel The source for the Linux
kernel used in Windows Subsystem for Linux 2 (WSL2)

I'm reading that the above MS wsl2 kernel runs in a VM off a virtual
ext4 disk on *some* hardware (Intel VT or AMD-V) to run the gnu
userspace stuff of Ub, Suse, OpenSuse, Debian, Fedora or Kali which have
been modified for such use w/ MS's wsl2 kernel.

--
Mike Easter

[Arlen Holder]

On Tue, 19 May 2020 07:43:25 -0700, Mike Easter wrote:

> My understanding is that MS took an (old) 4.19 kernel

Thank you all for helping to update the tutorial so that
a. We all have an easy-to-use step-by-step tested c&p tutorial
b. We strive to _improve_ that tutorial to add further value

To that goal, here is what my Ubuntu 19.10 inside of WSL says about the kernel:

Win+R > wsl

$ lsb_release -d
Description: Ubuntu 19.10

$ uname -r
4.4.0-18362-Microsoft
Which apparently indicates:
o 4 ¡V Kernel version
o 4 ¡V Major revision
o 0 ¡V Minor revision
o 18362 ¡V Bug fix
o Microsoft ¡V Distribution-specific string

$ uname -mrs
Linux 4.4.0-18362-Microsoft x86_64

$ cat /proc/version
Linux version 4.4.0-18362-Microsoft (Micr...@Microsoft.com)
(gcc version 5.4.0 (GCC) ) #476-Microsoft Fri Nov 01 16:53:00 PST 2019

$ dmesg | grep Microsoft
[ 0.048501] Microsoft 4.4.0-18362.476-Microsoft 4.4.35

$ apt-cache search linux-generic
linux-generic - Complete Generic Linux kernel and headers
linux-generic-hwe-18.04 - Complete generic Linux kernel and headers (dummy transitional package)
linux-generic-hwe-18.04-edge - Complete generic Linux kernel and headers (dummy transitional package)
linux-generic-hwe-20.04 - Complete Generic Linux kernel and headers
linux-image-unsigned-5.4.0-26-generic - Linux kernel image for version 5.4.0 on 64 bit x86 SMP
linux-modules-5.4.0-26-generic - Linux kernel extra modules for version 5.4.0 on 64 bit x86 SMP
linux-modules-extra-5.4.0-26-generic - Linux kernel extra modules for version 5.4.0 on 64 bit x86 SMP
linux-image-unsigned-5.4.0-28-generic - Linux kernel image for version 5.4.0 on 64 bit x86 SMP
linux-image-unsigned-5.4.0-29-generic - Linux kernel image for version 5.4.0 on 64 bit x86 SMP
linux-image-unsigned-5.4.0-31-generic - Linux kernel image for version 5.4.0 on 64 bit x86 SMP
linux-modules-5.4.0-28-generic - Linux kernel extra modules for version 5.4.0 on 64 bit x86 SMP
linux-modules-5.4.0-29-generic - Linux kernel extra modules for version 5.4.0 on 64 bit x86 SMP
linux-modules-5.4.0-31-generic - Linux kernel extra modules for version 5.4.0 on 64 bit x86 SMP
linux-modules-extra-5.4.0-28-generic - Linux kernel extra modules for version 5.4.0 on 64 bit x86 SMP
linux-modules-extra-5.4.0-29-generic - Linux kernel extra modules for version 5.4.0 on 64 bit x86 SMP
linux-modules-extra-5.4.0-31-generic - Linux kernel extra modules for version 5.4.0 on 64 bit x86 SMP

$ wget https://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v5.0/linux-headers-5.0.0-050000_5.0.0-050000.201903032031_all.deb
$ wget https://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v5.0/linux-headers-5.0.0-050000-generic_5.0.0-050000.201903032031_amd64.deb
$ wget https://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v5.0/linux-image-unsigned-5.0.0-050000-generic_5.0.0-050000.201903032031_amd64.deb
$ wget https://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v5.0/linux-modules-5.0.0-050000-generic_5.0.0-050000.201903032031_amd64.deb

$ ls *.deb
linux-headers-5.0.0-050000-generic_5.0.0-050000.201903032031_amd64.deb
linux-headers-5.0.0-050000_5.0.0-050000.201903032031_all.deb
linux-image-unsigned-5.0.0-050000-generic_5.0.0-050000.201903032031_amd64.deb
linux-modules-5.0.0-050000-generic_5.0.0-050000.201903032031_amd64.deb

$ sudo dpkg -i *.deb
(does a _lot_ of stuff for ten minutes but this is the net, I think)
dpkg: error processing package linux-headers-5.0.0-050000-generic (--install): dependency problems - leaving unconfigured
--
I don't know Linux well enough to know if the dependencies can be resolved.

[Arlen Holder]

> To that goal, here is what my Ubuntu 19.10 inside
> of WSL says about the kernel:

I should note that wsl has a newer "full-linux" kernel, I think.
<https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/compare-versions>

My test above was on WSL1 as reported below:
Win+R > wsl
$ [ $(grep -oE 'gcc version ([0-9]+)' /proc/version | awk '{print $3}') -gt 5 ] && echo "WSL2" || echo "WSL1"
WSL1

$ uname -r | grep Microsoft > /dev/null && echo "WSL1"
WSL1

This explains a bit about the difference in the kernel:
<https://howto.lintel.in/wsl-vs-wsl-2-performance/>

"The Linux kernel in WSL 2 is built in house from the latest
stable branch, based on the source available at kernel.org.
This kernel has been specially tuned for WSL 2.
It has been optimized for size and performance...
and will be serviced through Windows updates, which means
you will get the latest security fixes and kernel improvements
without needing to manage it yourself."

Note you should likely want to be running WSL2 if you can:
"If you have the Windows 10 build 18917 or higher, you should run WSL2"
<https://adamtheautomator.com/windows-subsystem-for-linux/>
--
Usenet is where purposefully helpful adults polititely discuss solutions.

[Chris]

From my reading WSL2 is an actual Linux kernel which has been "tuned" to
work in the windows hypervisor and is a bit leaner. I imagine they've
removed all the device drivers which aren't relevant. All seems sensible
and is better than the real kludge that WSL is.

Not really sure what is "bent"? It's 100% compatible.

What is less great is that the kernel will be subject to the vagaries of
Windows update.

The other problem is the slow I/O between the two filesystems. Makes it
less useful for working on windows files.

[Paul]

Arlen Holder wrote:

>
> Note you should likely want to be running WSL2 if you can:
> "If you have the Windows 10 build 18917 or higher, you should run WSL2"
> <https://adamtheautomator.com/windows-subsystem-for-linux/>

Only one computer in the house can do this.

What incentive do I have to even turn it on, via Windows Features ?

I select features on computers, that generally "work everywhere".
I don't like to invest in "orphan stuff".

Just because Microsoft is "larding up" this subsystem,
does not increase my "feelings of love" for it. If it
didn't depend on SLAT/EPT, then great, it would run
everywhere that matters.

Paul

[Arlen Holder]

On Tue, 19 May 2020 18:46:00 -0400, Paul wrote:

> What incentive do I have to even turn it on, via Windows Features ?

Hi Paul,

Since you're almost always purposefully helpful, you're worth my time to
explain why you "might" want to turn WSL on.
o But what I do not know (yet?) is why you might _not_ want to do so! :)

As you're well aware, use the "Run" box, oh, scores of times a day (if I
mention any semblance of a number, the number trolls will be on me like
stink on a skunk).

Suffice to day I've documented _hundreds_ of quick "Run" commands:
o *Over 250 Start > Run commands* (please improve!)
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/cc1lGn3ty0E/DH_FxVCjAAAJ>

What Windows Subsystem for Linux enables me to do, is create just 1 more:
o Win+R > wsl

Once there, I get scores of commands to add to my "toolbox" repertoire.

For example, after typing "wsl", I instantly get "awk", "sed", "grep",
"!!", "!ls", "col", "tr", "comm", "diff", "tr", "locate", etc.

Now, if you never have a _need_ for such things, then that reason would
vaporize; but I have a need every day it seems for the kind of efficiency
that the Linux command line provides over the DOS command line.

There may be "cons" about "enabling" WSL that I'm not yet aware of, but the
"pro" of enabling Ubuntu in WSL is inherent in the tutorial:
o PRO: It takes a couple of minutes to set it up, and,
o PRO: It takes a split second to get into & out of WSL.

To get in, all you type is:
o Win+R > wsl

To get out, all you type is:
o $ exit

Hence, I ask you, what's the "con" of having wsl available to you?
--
Usenet is so much more valuable when people post with helpful intentions.

[Mike Easter]

Arlen Holder wrote:
> Mike Easter wrote:
>
>> Your priorities in this matter are very different from my own.
>
> The facts are that you can easily install linux/wsl from the command line

>
>> - I have no interest in win10 wsl
>

> Me neither.
> o My goal is "sed", "awk", "grep", "tr", etc. inside of Windows.
>
> Oh, and "vi", of course! :)
>
> o The one platform I own that is a compatibility issue is iOS
>
> Luckily, Ubuntu 18.04 handles iOS absolutely perfectly
> o There's no need for the iTunes abomination when you have Ubuntu!
>
> There's something "fundamental" about payware M$ Office that's key.
> o Since Linux does everything else that Windows does, IMHO, with aplomb.
>
>> - because I have plenty of old computers which are mostly not rich in
>> resources, I also don't use VMs but instead I boot an OS of choice on a
>> box within 'reach' which is 5, 4 of them on two monitors and kb/mouse w/
>> KVM switching. 2 more are slightly out of reach
>
> I too have all old computers (they are still BIOS, for example)...
>
> My "hope" is that this new "Linux inside of WSL" is "more convenient" than
> o Dual boot with Grub
> o Docker
> o Cygwin
> o Linux inside of VMs
> o emulators galore

You left out the best one; the one which I use.

ISTM itseemstome that given what you like to do in linux and that you
have old/other computers around, that somewhere along the way you would
have had a chance to do what I do with a KVM device where such a device
is most commonly a '2 port' KVM as opposed to 3 or more ports.

In my case, I have a lot more PS/2 keyboard/mouse devices, so that is
the basis for my KVM/s. I currently have 2 in use and 1 parked, which
was previously at another station.

You would need to have a KVM device that matches your hardware, ie
either PS/2 or USB. The idea would be that you have your current or
favorite Win10 installed machine on one port and whatever is your 'next
best' machine for the other linux port. That machine could be running
any one of:

- an installed linux distro of your choice, as a dual boot or single
- a live linux distro preferably w/ persistence
- a 'live-ish' linux distro as a 'frugal' install parking a
directory/file on such as a win part, not requiring its own partition as
a dual boot does

The point is that the win machine is booted into win, the linux machine
is booted into a linux, live or installed or frugal.

The KVM permits you to instantly switch from whether the I/O of kb,
mouse, video is working/viewing the Win machine or the linux machine.
Naturally the two machines are also on the same network and able to
share files or partitions or printers or whatever w/ each other.

When you wanted to do linux-y things as you mention above you would be
in a real linux; when you wanted to do Windows-y things such as Word or
whatever, you would be in a real Win. When you wanted to pass something
from a Win to linux or linux to win you would use a shared directory on
either box.

Here's an example of an IO-Gear 2 port KVM PS/2 like the ones I have.
Naturally if your kb/mouse is USB you would choose a USB one instead of
PS/2.
https://www.amazon.com/IOGEAR-2-Port-MiniView-Switch-GCS62/dp/B00006IRR8
IOGEAR 2-Port MiniView Micro PS/2 KVM Switch with 2 Cables,

I think the MS WSL stuff is some kind of progress by MS and your efforts
to command install it are too, but I would not swap my own hardware
method for flipping between win & linux for wsl.

--
Mike Easter

[Arlen Holder]

On Wed, 20 May 2020 10:22:55 -0700, Mike Easter wrote:

> I think the MS WSL stuff is some kind of progress by MS and your efforts
> to command install it are too, but I would not swap my own hardware
> method for flipping between win & linux for wsl.

Hi Mike,
Thanks for continuing to be helpful by expanding the possible use models
where I might, someday, set up a spare machine as a linux _server_ since I
have need for a CalDAV server (which... exist... but suck... on Windows).

For now, I can't even _think_ of a "con" of this WSL setup.
o Seriously... what is the "con"? (I asked Paul the same question)

I'm not at all claiming there isn't a con...
o I just haven't seen it yet.

Normally the con is "complexity" or cost or maintenance, or _something_.
o But I can't even figure out a "con" yet to this WSL inside of Linux.
(for the kinds of things I want to do, which is Linux batch commands)

If you can tell me the con of this method, that would help.

Right now, as far as I can tell, here are the pros:
1. The thing installs in five minutes elapsed time (four c&p commands).
2. Instantly, that gives you the Linux command line inside of Windows.
3. As far as I can tell (so far), when it's off, it's transparent.

But what are the "cons"?
o One of the cons "might" be maintenance, or size?

Dunno, but literally, I don't even know _where_ M$ _put_ the darn thing.
o So far it has been transparent when not in use.

And when I need to munge a file or pipe a few commands, that's easy:
o Win+R > wsl
$ comm -23 < (sort foo.txt | uniq) < (sort bar.txt | uniq)
(this shows the lines which are unique to the first file)
$ comm -12 < (sort foo.txt | uniq) < (sort bar.txt | uniq)
(this shows the lines which are common to both files)

I could also easily _change_ those lines with Linux, e.g.,
$ comm -23 second-file-sorted.txt first-file-sorted.txt
$ !!:gs/second-file-sorted/foo {i.e., replace one with the other}
$ $ !!:gs/first-file-sorted/bar {i.e., and then do that again}
Which results in the command:
$ comm -23 foo.txt bar.txt

I just did this bang-bang stuff to test it & it worked, which is my point
that much of the Linux finger memory now works inside of Windows.

Therefore, the full force (almost?) of Linux command line is at my
fingertips for the cost of four c&p commands & five minutes elapsed time.

I'm sure there are cons; but I haven't seen them yet.
o What are the cons of installing a WSL Ubuntu in Windows in five minutes?
--
Usenet works best when adults post with purposefully helpful intentions.

[Mike Easter]

Arlen Holder wrote:
> Mike Easter wrote:
>
>> I think the MS WSL stuff is some kind of progress by MS and your efforts
>> to command install it are too, but I would not swap my own hardware
>> method for flipping between win & linux for wsl.
>

> Thanks for continuing to be helpful by expanding the possible use models
> where I might, someday, set up a spare machine as a linux _server_ since I
> have need for a CalDAV server (which... exist... but suck... on Windows).
>
> For now, I can't even _think_ of a "con" of this WSL setup.
> o Seriously... what is the "con"? (I asked Paul the same question)
>

For me, I only have one machine which has Win10 (a refurb license) and
its hardware I would consider weak:

Lenovo x131e Thinkpad - Win10 Home
Dual core AMD E2-1800 APU with Radeon HD Graphics
Its alleged 4G ram stick is reported as 3.3G, a chunk lost to video;
there is some ram 'missing' that I can't account for. In any case, it
is a lightweight w/ a weak cpu; BUT perfectly fit for running MX Linux
which is my preference for it because of its weakness and because of its
wifi chipset.

Personally I wouldn't choose that for my Win machine OR my linux machine
to flip between; also it is a laptop which doesn't have PS/2 which is
the condition of my KVM/s.

I use other older desktop machines for both my linux and my win.
Because of my 'configuration' and uses, the small amount of time I am in
win is split about evenly between XP (because it has some 'stuff'
attached, a winmodem & phone line, a printer/scanner, and its hdd has
some useful files) and Win7 which has some useful Win USB writing tools
and a USB storage). So, I don't really use Win10; I just occasionally
tinker w/ it as an alternate boot to the MX Linux.

> I'm not at all claiming there isn't a con...
> o I just haven't seen it yet.
>

I consider it a con if it isn't of interest to me and I don't need it
and I don't have any reasonable way to run it.

> If you can tell me the con of this method, that would help.

See above as it applies to me, not you.

To me, I see this WSL exercise as a route to achieve a goal, which goal
I have achieved another way which I prefer and which works for me, while
the WSL route does NOT work for me nor would I prefer it.

For weighing cons, the con of my KVM/s is the initial hardware cost and
the fact that I run 2 machines at the same time, so some electrons are
spent on that.

However, the savings is that I don't require a more advanced machine to
run a Win10 and I get lots of variety in my choice of linux UI/s.



--
Mike Easter

[Mike Easter]

Mike Easter wrote:
> I use other older desktop machines for both my linux and my win. Because
> of my 'configuration' and uses, the small amount of time I am in win is
> split about evenly between XP (because it has some 'stuff' attached, a
> winmodem & phone line, a printer/scanner, and its hdd has some useful
> files) and Win7 which has some useful Win USB writing tools and a USB
> storage).

And; just to add a little confusion to this 'how I do it' business;
right now the two machines I have running are NOT on the same 2 port
KVM, so I'm instead using two keyboards, mice, and monitors from the
same chair.

On my R is an XP machine doing some duties which mostly involve its USB
printer/scanner and some free utilities which run fine on XP. I am not
'surfing' w/ the old XP or the outdated Chrome browser which is on it.

In front of me is a linux machine which is my 'everyday' preference.
This one happens to be running a current Mint 19.3 Cinnamon (and Firefox
and Thunderbird). Another machine which is currently turned off on the
same KVM might run Win7 when it is booted, or instead it might run any
of a 'host' of different live linux distro/s which are on a 32G USB
stick or off several other USB sticks of various sizes. This machine
which is running the Mint can also boot a Win7 (refurb license) and it
has 8G of ram, so it has some breathing room.



--
Mike Easter

[Arlen Holder]

UPDATE:
o *The Windows 10 May 2020 Update is finally now released 5/27/2020*
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/C8uKEw5vIMA>

Apparently they're billing WSL2 as part of this update
o Even though you can get it separately, as we covered here:

o *Tutorial for setting up Ubuntu as a Windows Subsystem for Linux WSL in Windows 10*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.comp.freeware/rOT8xBWo9dk/pK8Z8ahDAgAJ>

This is where they link the WSL2 with this new update:
o *Windows 10 May 2020 Update now available with built-in Linux kernel and Cortana updates*
<https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/27/21271655/microsoft-windows-10-may-2020-update-download-available>
"Microsoft's next major Windows 10 update includes WSL 2"

"The biggest change to the May 2020 Update is that it includes the
Windows Subsystem for Linux 2 (WSL 2), with a custom-built Linux kernel."

"WSL 2 won't include Linux GUI application support or GPU hardware
acceleration just yet, as Microsoft is promising both of these features
for future Windows updates."
o *Microsoft is bringing Linux GUI apps to Windows 10*
<https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/19/21263377/microsoft-windows-10-linux-gui-apps-gpu-acceleration-wsl-features>
--
Note that there's almost never anything really useful in any update...
o What can you do on Windows 10 that you can't do on Windows XP or Windows 7?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/fJBY472ds3E/W539WlUTAwAJ>

[Arlen Holder]

Dateline today...
"Microsoft's latest Windows Insider preview of Windows 10 cuts out
the Linux kernel for the Windows Subsystem for Linux 2 (WSL2)."

"Microsoft... decided to remove its custom Linux kernel from the
Windows OS image to improve serviceability. The idea was to let
Windows handle kernel updates like other driver updates via
Windows Update to ensure the kernel is kept current."

o New Windows 10 preview drops WSL2 Linux kernel
(adds AMD nested virtualization)
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/new-windows-10-preview-drops-wsl2-linux-kernel-adds-amd-nested-virtualization/>

"Windows 10 users can run the Linux distribution of their choice"

"This preview build also brings support for nested virtualization
on PCs with AMD processors... Until now Windows 10 only supported
nested virtualization on Intel processors."
--
It's nice to have Linux commands when you need them, inside of Windows.

[Mike Easter]

Arlen Holder wrote:
> Dateline today...
> "Microsoft's latest Windows Insider preview of Windows 10 cuts out
> the Linux kernel for the Windows Subsystem for Linux 2 (WSL2)."

This WSL business has a role for 'Win people' who want to do things w/
linux because it is 'better' by some metrics than doing linux things w/
Win via VM.

BUT...

... from a 'linux' perspective, such as mine, it isn't important;
because I do linux things in linux. And, from a Win perspective, the
interest would be for a 'Win10-based' dev who wants to do linux in his
Win10. I don't know how many that would apply, certainly not me, for
example.

I can understand that a Win10 'user' might be interested to 'try it out'
to see it work. But, I would have to keep coming back to the fact that
for doing 'linux work' at the server level, the best way would be w/
(just) linux, not Win10 WSL2 linux.

--
Mike Easter

[Kenny McCormack]

In article <hkflls...@mid.individual.net>,

Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid> wrote:
>Arlen Holder wrote:
>> Dateline today...
>> "Microsoft's latest Windows Insider preview of Windows 10 cuts out
>> the Linux kernel for the Windows Subsystem for Linux 2 (WSL2)."
>
>This WSL business has a role for 'Win people' who want to do things w/
>linux because it is 'better' by some metrics than doing linux things w/
>Win via VM.

I still think there are a lot of MS devs who are desperate to justify their
existence. IOW, they are casting around for something to do...

The above is 50% serious. The other half of it - and I think this really
is what's driving it - is that it fills the niche needs of some big
corporate customer. So, the reality is they did it for them, and the rest
of us benefit (or suffer, as the case may be...)

--
The randomly chosen signature file that would have appeared here is more than 4
lines long. As such, it violates one or more Usenet RFCs. In order to remain
in compliance with said RFCs, the actual sig can be found at the following URL:
http://user.xmission.com/~gazelle/Sigs/FiftyPercent

[Paul]

Kenny McCormack wrote:
> In article <hkflls...@mid.individual.net>,
> Mike Easter <Mi...@ster.invalid> wrote:
>> Arlen Holder wrote:
>>> Dateline today...
>>> "Microsoft's latest Windows Insider preview of Windows 10 cuts out
>>> the Linux kernel for the Windows Subsystem for Linux 2 (WSL2)."
>> This WSL business has a role for 'Win people' who want to do things w/
>> linux because it is 'better' by some metrics than doing linux things w/
>> Win via VM.
>
> I still think there are a lot of MS devs who are desperate to justify their
> existence. IOW, they are casting around for something to do...
>
> The above is 50% serious. The other half of it - and I think this really
> is what's driving it - is that it fills the niche needs of some big
> corporate customer. So, the reality is they did it for them, and the rest
> of us benefit (or suffer, as the case may be...)
>

One of the objectives of Windows 10, was to incorporate the
works of Microsoft Research.

WSL traces to Project Astoria (is a basis for it), but
I can't find an admission it was ever under the umbrella
of Microsoft Research. But, because it has the word "Project"
in it, it might have been a Microsoft Research project.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Subsystem_for_Linux#Development

"The technology behind Windows Subsystem for Linux originated
in the unreleased Project Astoria, which enabled some Android
applications to run on Windows 10 Mobile."

I don't think the regular devs are given that much rope.
Maybe the webcam "frameserve" guy being the exception
(symptomatic of a management problem, not enough arch oversight).

As for the Enterprise customers, certain whizzy things are
stripped off their version. For example, MSEdge didn't ship
with theirs, because it was "a web browser that wasn't ripe".
Enterprise didn't want that. Only stable stuff goes in
theirs. And the document security model, was an example
of a feature crafted just for them (likely implemented
just for domains). No home user has seen that one.
If you have a document with a "Top Secret" security
clearance, the user cannot copy and paste text from
the document, into an email. The paste stops working :-)
Your own computer works to keep the company secrets safe,
by busting your Paste button.

Paul

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 12 Jun 2020 06:19:39 -0000 (UTC), Kenny McCormack wrote:

> The above is 50% serious. The other half of it - and I think this really
> is what's driving it - is that it fills the niche needs of some big
> corporate customer. So, the reality is they did it for them, and the rest
> of us benefit (or suffer, as the case may be...)

On Fri, 12 Jun 2020 05:33:11 -0400, Paul wrote:

> One of the objectives of Windows 10, was to incorporate the
> works of Microsoft Research.

I _love_ WSL - but for reasons that perhaps Microsoft didn't do it for???

I can't disagree with anything said by Kenny or Paul (as I wouldn't know
_why_ M$ does anything), but, as a dual-boot Linux user, what I find useful
with WSL inside of Windows is simply that it saves me the effort of
booting.

Without booting, I have all (most of?) the basic commands (ls, locate,
grep, awk, sed, col, tr, etc.) instantly "more easily" accessible.

The "value" to me of WSL, is that it operates on my personal Windows files
* While Windows is running.

I suspect, as the post from Kenny McCormack & Paul indicate, that's _not_
why M$ added WSL, so it's a very interesting topic as to what is M$'s end
plan on adding WSL as a "component" of Windows moving forward.
--
Polite public sharing of ideas is what makes Usenet so nicely informative.