Simultaneously slide Windows Linux iOS Android files back and forth over USB at 7GB per minute speeds using 100% native devices (no proprietary software needed)

[Arlen Holder]

I post this FYI so others know how *easy* it is to *simultaneously* slide
huge files both ways over USB to *any* iOS, Android, Windows, & Linux
device!

No proprietary software or ID logins required (other than native basics).

At home, I have Windows 10 desktops with dual-boot Ubuntu 18.04, where I
can connect *any* Android or iOS device (not just my own) and slide huge
files back in forth in a single swipe, read and write.

*Simultaneously*
Over four systems!

HINT: I can slide across 4 systems, with only 3 devices! (details matter)

The test today to the iPad went at 7GB per minute on a decade old desktop.

1. Plug in the iPad or Android device - it automatically mounts.
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=8918650usb01.jpg>
2. Slide 14 files from one to the other in one swoop (either direction):
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=8157466usb02.jpg>
3. Elapsed time over old USB was a few seconds over two minutes for 4 GB:
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2107706usb03.jpg>

Note that on all four devices you have *zero* additional software.
The only software is what is commonly installed when you install the OS.
HINT: That means no Orwellian iTunes or AirDrop abominations, for example.

Note that all four devices have *simultaneous* read/write access.
They don't even have to be *your* devices (i.e., no Apple or Android ID).

If you know of a cross-platform method *easier & faster* than just plugging
in *any* device (it doesn't even have to be yours!) and sliding any visible
files back and forth simultaneously, then let me know!

[Arlen Holder]

On 14 Sep 2018 14:41:40 GMT, Arlen Holder wrote:

> The test today to the iPad went at 7GB per minute on a decade old desktop.

Ooooooops. 2GB/minute over old USB.
(I accidentally typed 7 which was half of 14 files).

The main message is simply that it's *easy* to copy *anything* you can see
on any device (not just yours) without any software (other than what comes
with the original OS installation) and certainly no additional logins
(other than the login needed to access each device natively).

In fact, you don't even need the login to Windows, since Ubuntu mounts
Windows file systems automatically, just as it mounts iOS and Android file
systems automatically.

1. Dual boot to Ubuntu 18.04.
2. Plug in any device you want (any iOS or Android device that you want)
3. Slide files read/write both ways from *all four devices simultaneously*!

The USB speed on a decade-old desktop today was 2GB per minute.

[Frank Slootweg]

Arlen Holder <arlen...@nospam.net> wrote:
[...]

> <http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=8918650usb01.jpg>
> <http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=8157466usb02.jpg>
> <http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2107706usb03.jpg>

FWIW, when I visited these pages, I got a popup - allegedly from
Windows Defender [1] - claiming that I had some kind of malware and
telling me to call 'Microsoft' at some number. Yeah, RIGHT!

I am not accusing you or this website of anything, but these pages
were the only 'special' ones I had open at the time, the two others were
websites which I use very often.

After the popup, there was an even more 'terryfying' :-) page with
alarming messages in red.

Somehow they managed to demote the browser (IE) to the bottom of the
Task Manager list, so you had to freeze Task Manager in order to do an
'End Task' on IE.

OTOH, may be I was just a target, because I just bad-mouthed Windows
10! :-)

[1] Never mind that I don't run Windows Defender.

[MikeS]

Congratulations. You just reinvented the wheel.

[Arlen Holder]

On 14 Sep 2018 08:33:28 GMT, MikeS wrote:

> Congratulations.
> You just reinvented the wheel

So many morons on Usenet claim to be geniuses that I have to wonder what
your claim of genius is.

a. Do you _already_ do exactly what I said I do?
(If so, prove it with a screenshot because I don't believe you.)

b. You you _already_ know of a _better_ way to do what I said I did?
(If so, prove it with a screenshot because I don't believe you.)

You claim to be a genius.
Prove it.

Everyone will benefit if you have a *better* method.
HINT: You don't.

[Arlen Holder]

On 14 Sep 2018 08:28:52 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

>> <http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=8918650usb01.jpg>
>> <http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=8157466usb02.jpg>
>> <http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2107706usb03.jpg>
>
> FWIW, when I visited these pages, I got a popup - allegedly from
> Windows Defender [1] - claiming that I had some kind of malware and
> telling me to call 'Microsoft' at some number. Yeah, RIGHT!

I've used http://bild.me for a long time where nobody complained.
But since there was a typo in the original files anyway, I modified them
just now, and uploaded them using http://fileconvoy.com

These files will be deleted in 21 days, but they're available now.
<http://www.fileconvoy.com/dfl.php?id=gcb6a0b17f6ad694c1000113621fa665a5352f6f259>

If you have a better free no-reg photo upload site, let me know and I'll
use that instead.

Mainly, the screenshots simply prove I did the file transfer between the
mobile device and the Windows system disk, without even Windows being
booted (it needs to NOT be set to hibernate though).

I provide proof with screenshots since there is always a "genius" who
claims to have a "better" method which he can never explain.

I've been on Usenet for decades, where some "genius" always claims to have
a better file transfer method - which never exists when you ask for proof.

This cross platform file transfer method is the *best* I can think of,
since it has zero restrictions, it works on everything, and, it requires no
software other than what comes with a typical system.

I doubt there is a *better* mechanism on this planet - but if you know of a
better mechanism for transferring large files between Windows and Ubuntu
and iOS and Android - please let us all know because this is as good as it
gets as far as I know.

[Arlen Holder]

On 14 Sep 2018 14:41:40 GMT, Arlen Holder wrote:

> 1. Plug in the iPad or Android device - it automatically mounts.
> <http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=8918650usb01.jpg>
> 2. Slide 14 files from one to the other in one swoop (either direction):
> <http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=8157466usb02.jpg>
> 3. Elapsed time over old USB was a few seconds over two minutes for 4 GB:
> <http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2107706usb03.jpg>

Someone complained about the bild.me site, so I wrote this in response:

[Big Al]

From Android to any pc (and maybe IOS, not sure since I have none), I
use wi-fi xfer.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.smarterdroid.wififiletransfer

Either this app from the play store or my file explorer will do it too.
Both apps on the phone launch into a web server and show you the
address you put into your browser on the PC.

So any browser will then allow you to browse the phone. The nice part
about this is that the phone does not need to be tethered to the PC.
And since it's browser based it's also oblivious to the PC platform.
No cables with either iPhone plug, Android plug, type C or B usb, nothing.

Al.

[Arlen Holder]

On 14 Sep 2018 11:06:24 GMT, Big Al wrote:

> From Android to any pc (and maybe IOS, not sure since I have none), I
> use wi-fi xfer.
> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.smarterdroid.wififiletransfer
>
> Either this app from the play store or my file explorer will do it too.
> Both apps on the phone launch into a web server and show you the
> address you put into your browser on the PC.
>
> So any browser will then allow you to browse the phone. The nice part
> about this is that the phone does not need to be tethered to the PC.
> And since it's browser based it's also oblivious to the PC platform.
> No cables with either iPhone plug, Android plug, type C or B usb, nothing.

Hi Al,
The summary is that you're right, but there is a better method, IMHO, than
what you suggest, if you're going to use FTP servers on the mobile device.

HINT: Don't use a web browser, which, while it has portability advantages,
sucks when the files are tremendous in number and size and locations.

Rest assured we know what we're doing.
That's why I'm pretty confident nobody can come up with a better solution.

But I'm *happy* if people have new ideas - but we've long ago fleshed out
all server possibilities (unless new standards arise, which can happen).

In fact, we've tested for years _all_ the known free FTP solutions and
written them up many times, on these same newsgroups, where, *all* the
desktop operating systems will handle the FTP addressing scheme.
ftp://machine-name-or-ip-address/sharename

That means Ubuntu's Nautilus & Dolphin respect that addressing scheme
That means Windows' File Explorer networking respects that scheme

However, the FTP addressing scheme is slightly more complex than USB (see
details below) and it's less compatible across platforms (hint, everything
is harder with iOS when you actually interface to the real world), and it's
certainly slower (depending on a lot of factors) than USB is typically
(wait for the Apple Apologist nospam to jump on that one with his
outlandish claims).

So we've already covered FTP cross-platform sharing in depth between the
desktops (Windows & Linux) and the mobile devices (iOS and Android).

We even covered, long ago, which is the *best* (bar none) freeware FTP
server for both Android and iOS in order to make this method work.
HINT: It matters greatly, particularly on iOS, but even on Android.

Furthermore, we covered how to lock the IP address so that the FTP
addressing scheme works flawlessly, where Android has the ability to
connect via a given IP address to your router, and where your router has
the ability to hand your Android device the same IP address each time.

The FTP scheme has an advantage over USB in that it work over the local LAN
(and it will even work over the Internet, although that's not the purpose
here).

The main disadvantage of the FTP server method, unless you have a super
fast network and super slow USB hardware, is speed.

Here are some related URLs for reference:
How to mount the entire mobile device file system on Windows
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/ix8xgTcexAY/dlY4nLMfAgAJ>

How to mount the entire mobile device file system on Linux
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/oNe2gAEQPjA/fa4MVadOAgAJ>

How to mount the entire mobile device file system on the Mac
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/o-5nLy7Cs-4/WYgJuCUZCQAJ>

All I want is to easily transfer files from Android to Linux using WiFi
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/FaoR_SLSyTc/aTZCryiACQAJ>
etc.

[Arlen Holder]

On 14 Sep 2018 21:01:58 GMT, Arlen Holder wrote:

> In fact, we've tested for years _all_ the known free FTP solutions and
> written them up many times, on these same newsgroups, where, *all* the
> desktop operating systems will handle the FTP addressing scheme.
> ftp://machine-name-or-ip-address/sharename
>
> That means Ubuntu's Nautilus & Dolphin respect that addressing scheme
> That means Windows' File Explorer networking respects that scheme

In addition, with respect to the FTP-server method, where the FTP server
runs on the rather io-limited mobile device (compared to most desktops), in
general, you want the server to be on the more powerful less io-limited
desktops, if you can work that out.

Also, since technical details matter when performing cross platform
connections, for the FTP-server method, the mobile device machine name
generally needs to be in the HOSTS file.

The IP address always works, but that brings up the complexities inherent
in the mobile devices constantly coming on and going off your local
network, where their IP address "can" change.

We studied these changes in detail a few years ago, where they're
remarkably consistent in most situations, but the fact is that the IP
address "can" change unless you fix it permanently on your local LAN.

I don't think we ever solved that problem for iOS specifically, but for
Android, there is an easy way to connect to any particular access point and
have the Android device *request* the same IP address each time it connects
to your home router. (I have iOS so I can test it - but generally iOS is
vastly limited when dealing with the real world - since Apple simply says
the real world is "not supported").

Even so, you don't *need* to request a specific IP address on the mobile
device to lock it down, since the router can *assign* the same address
every time to a particular MAC address on the mobile device (whether that
be an iOS or Android mobile device).

In summary, the FTP server solution is elegant in that it allows the
desktop to see the entire visible file system of every mobile device on the
local network, but you have to know how to deal with the problems of:
a. Locking the mobile device IP address
b. Using a suitable desktop "file explorer" (Hint: We browsers suck.)
c. Dealing with much slower speeds (compared to USB)

Of course, you don't have to lock the mobile device IP address; you can
address it dynamically; but if you do that, you negate point and click
advantages.

[nospam]

In article <pnh8h3$ndt$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen Holder

<arlen...@nospam.net> wrote:

> Also, since technical details matter when performing cross platform
> connections, for the FTP-server method, the mobile device machine name
> generally needs to be in the HOSTS file.

nope.

> The IP address always works, but that brings up the complexities inherent
> in the mobile devices constantly coming on and going off your local
> network, where their IP address "can" change.

that doesn't matter and there is no complexity, other than what you're
creating for yourself.

> We studied these changes in detail a few years ago, where they're
> remarkably consistent in most situations, but the fact is that the IP
> address "can" change unless you fix it permanently on your local LAN.

there's no need to do that.

> I don't think we ever solved that problem for iOS specifically,

you didn't, but others certainly have, and not just ios either.

> but for
> Android, there is an easy way to connect to any particular access point and
> have the Android device *request* the same IP address each time it connects
> to your home router.

that's not specific to android, and also not needed.

> Of course, you don't have to lock the mobile device IP address; you can
> address it dynamically; but if you do that, you negate point and click
> advantages.

absolutely false.

[Arlen Holder]

On 14 Sep 2018 14:31:56 GMT, nospam wrote:


> nope.

>

> that doesn't matter and there is no complexity, other than what you're
> creating for yourself.

> there's no need to do that.

> you didn't, but others certainly have, and not just ios either.

> that's not specific to android, and also not needed.

> absolutely false.

As always, the Apple Apologist nospam proves in every post that all he
_can_ do, is play his fifth-grade silly semantic games.

The Apple Apologist nospam is heavy on the denials & light on details.

I've been on Usenet for decades, where the people like nospam brazenly
fabricate imaginary functionality that they can never actually perform.

Let's see if nospam can act like an *adult* for once, shall we?

Let's see if nospam can snap a screenshot of what he is denying above.

Cmon nospam. A screenshot. Like I did.
How hard would it be for nospam to *prove* something he says?
HINT: Extremely hard - since he never seems to ever come up with proof.

In fact, I snapped that screenshot on Linux and it showed up in Windows
where I edited it, and had I snapped a scresnshot of my mobile device, it
too would have automatically showed up on both Linux and Windows file
explorers for editing and upload for distribution on Usenet.

--
HINT: Apple Apologists like nospam live in an imaginary world.

[nospam]

In article <pnha1u$poa$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen Holder

<arlen...@nospam.net> wrote:

> How hard would it be for nospam to *prove* something he says?

learn about dns before you embarrass yourself any further

[Big Al]

I agree with nospam. I can make a device static in my router solving
the IP address thing, but when launching a FTP server on the phone it
shows the address to put in your browser, even if the IP is changing
daily, at that moment I get the current IP.

I do have to bow to your comment about the pipeline with FTP. It's
slower by a mile over a USB cable.

I was just bringing up other ways. And for uploading ringtones etc, or
a few family photos, the ftp / browser method is easy and time is not an
issue.

Al. PS. you need not counter reply. I've quit reading the thread.

[Big Al]

On 09/14/2018 05:51 PM, nospam wrote:

[Arlen Holder]

On 14 Sep 2018 14:51:48 GMT, nospam wrote:

>> How hard would it be for nospam to *prove* something he says?
>
> learn about dns before you embarrass yourself any further

Childish fifth graders make claims like you do without backing any up.
Adults back up their claims with facts.

*I only speak facts.*
And my intent is to be purposefully helpful to those who don't know facts.

The fact is, that simply plugging in a mobile device to a properly
configured Windows or Linux system, allows complete automatic read/write
access to the entire visible file systems of all four file systems,
simultaneously.

That's a fact.

In my twenty years of Usenet posting, you've never found an incorrect fact
from me (even though you've desperately tried).

*Since you simply guess at everything, you almost always guess wrong.*

You prove yourself, that you're incapable of acting like an adult.
Adults can easily agree on facts.
Facts are funny that way.

What's interesting is that you got your head handed to you on the Linux
groups when you spouted similar unsupported unwarranted DNS claims.
How does setting a static IP on a mobile device prevent the
router from assigning that IP address?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.os.linux/KPEz2M16sTU%5B126-150%5D>

You make outlandish unproven claims, which you can *never* back up.

*Let's see you back up a *single* claim of yours, with screenshots.*

[nospam]

In article <pnhbed$rr6$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen Holder

<arlen...@nospam.net> wrote:

> In my twenty years of Usenet posting, you've never found an incorrect fact
> from me (even though you've desperately tried).

never mind 20 years. finding 'incorrect facts' from you takes less than
20 seconds.

> What's interesting is that you got your head handed to you on the Linux
> groups when you spouted similar unsupported unwarranted DNS claims.

another one of your 'incorrect facts'.

[nospam]

In article <pnhb3b$pak$1...@dont-email.me>, Big Al <Big...@invalid.com>

wrote:

> >> How hard would it be for nospam to *prove* something he says?
> >
> > learn about dns before you embarrass yourself any further
> >
> I agree with nospam. I can make a device static in my router solving
> the IP address thing,

no need to use static ip. use its dhcp name:
<http://cache-www.linksys.com/support/images/KB25661-006_EN_v8.png>

> but when launching a FTP server on the phone it
> shows the address to put in your browser, even if the IP is changing
> daily, at that moment I get the current IP.

no need to run an ftp server on a phone either, and there are much
better options than ftp anyway.

[Arlen Holder]

On 14 Sep 2018 15:01:15 GMT, Big Al wrote:

> I agree with nospam.

Given nospam just guesses, what *fact* do you agree with him on?

From what you and nospam prove you post, it seems neither of you have any
comprehension whatsoever of how much we already covered in the past on this
newsgroup about this problem set.

For just one of many examples:
Is there an easy way to get photos off Android locally onto Linux
without USB?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/eLgDUDlQ9i8/w2Go7A2ffAUJ>

HINT: Please tell us something we don't already know.

> I can make a device static in my router solving
> the IP address thing, but when launching a FTP server on the phone it
> shows the address to put in your browser, even if the IP is changing
> daily, at that moment I get the current IP.

You don't appear to realize how much we know about this problem set.
We've covered it in detail ever since Android & iOS devices existed.

HINT:

How does setting a static IP on a mobile device prevent the
router from assigning that IP address?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.os.linux/KPEz2M16sTU%5B126-150%5D>

> I do have to bow to your comment about the pipeline with FTP. It's
> slower by a mile over a USB cable.

This is your first adult comment, where I treat you as an adult when you
act like an adult.

I agree with your fact that FTP is slower than USB.
I also agree a priori that FTP has the advantage of not needing cable.

Another fact you don't seem to comprehend yet is that running a server on a
puny mobile device (which is not optimmized for i/o transactions), is
problematic, compared to using the server mechanism on the desktop.

HINT: Many people have tried using SMB servers on Linux and Windows, but
they're problematic in how the mobile device SMB client is typically
restricted in ports (where Frank Slootweg has a good handle on this problem
set).

So I agree with your FTP premise - but I add technical details that you
haven't shown a comprehension of yet (e.g., FTP, like it or not, is using
both port 21 and 22 for different things, at least by default).

If you don't actually comprehend these technical details, then of course
you might assume (erroneously) that FTP is simpler than USB.

But it's not.

For another example of your premise related to FTP simplicity, based on
what you wrote about using a web browser as the FTP client, you don't seem
to comprehend that a web browser is a *terrible* (IMHO) way to manage
numerous large files in multiple places, particularly of different filename
extensions (somewhat related to MIME types complexities).

I posit that FTP cross platform file transfer is more complex than is USB.
It just is.

If you wish to debate that fact, then we should take that elsewhere since
the problems are well known to most adults who comprehend the difference
between how a "file explorer" works (such as Nautilus or Dolphin or Windows
File Explorer, etc.) and how a web browser works, particularly when we're
talking about executables, PDF files, html files, mkv container files, jpeg
files, etc.

> I was just bringing up other ways.

I appreciate that you are acting like an adult in bringing up other ways.

Rest assured we have covered the FTP server angle numerous times here.

For example:
Using FTP to xfr files between a Windows PC and an Android device
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/JUCDP5P4r_Y/rc-sy9BLAgAJ>

> And for uploading ringtones etc, or
> a few family photos, the ftp / browser method is easy and time is not an
> issue.

Agreed that if the problem set is trivial, then the solutions are trivial.
Adults easily agree on facts.

Facts are funny that way.

> PS. you need not counter reply. I've quit reading the thread.

When you act like a child, I treat you how you act.

HINT: Every fifth grader thinks your childish retort is hilariously clever.

*All you proved, by what you wrote, is that your mind is already closed.*

[nospam]

In article <pnhciv$tu6$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen Holder

<arlen...@nospam.net> wrote:

>
> You don't appear to realize how much we know about this problem set.

'we' know more than you do.

> How does setting a static IP on a mobile device prevent the
> router from assigning that IP address?

because it's static. duh.

> I agree with your fact that FTP is slower than USB.

that sentence makes no sense.

> I also agree a priori that FTP has the advantage of not needing cable.

that's not unique to ftp.

other than power delivery, a cable is not needed.

[Arlen Holder]

On 14 Sep 2018 15:20:52 GMT, nospam wrote:

> never mind 20 years. finding 'incorrect facts' from you takes less than
> 20 seconds.

Your posts are unhelpful.
*Let's see, nospam, whether you show a *better* USB method than proposed.*

While everyone knows you, nospam, to be the canonically classic Apple
Apologist, what is interesting is that every fifth grader thinks your
completely unsubstantiated childish retort is hilariously clever.

Such baseless and childish retorts are common with you Apple Apologists:

For example:
What are the common well-verified psychological traits of the
Apple Apologists on this newsgroup?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/18ARDsEOPzM/veU8FwAjBQAJ>

Such childish retorts, along with the one Big Al just made, simply prove
that you are not like normal adults.

For example:
The Apple Apologist is distinctly different from normal adult
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/6EKp2RpX_-U/fl5I1utGAwAJ>

Keeping on topic, all the adults here just want to learn.

Hence, keeping on topic, if you, or anyone else, has a *better* method to
*simultaneously* transfer large sets of disparate files over USB between
all four platforms (read and write), then now is the time to state your
proven facts.

*Let's see, nospam, whether you show a *better* USB method than proposed.*

--
We'd all benefit if nospam actually knew something we don't alrady know.

[Arlen Holder]

On 14 Sep 2018 15:32:26 GMT, nospam wrote:

> 'we' know more than you do.

*What *better* cross-platform USB file transfer method do you propose?*

Your childish fifth-grade posts are enjoyed by children I'm sure.
But adults find your unsubstantiated childish retorts patently unhelpful.

*Let's see, nospam, whether you show a *better* USB method than proposed.*

Keeping on topic, all the adults here just want to learn.

Hence, keeping on topic, if you, or anyone else, has a *better* method to
*simultaneously* transfer large sets of disparate files over USB between
all four platforms (read and write), then now is the time to state your
proven facts.

*What *better* cross-platform USB file transfer method do you propose?*

[Carlos E. R.]

On 14/09/2018 12.30, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On 14 Sep 2018 08:28:52 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>
>>> <http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=8918650usb01.jpg>
>>> <http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=8157466usb02.jpg>
>>> <http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2107706usb03.jpg>
>>

...

> Mainly, the screenshots simply prove I did the file transfer between the
> mobile device and the Windows system disk, without even Windows being
> booted (it needs to NOT be set to hibernate though).

I fail to see what is so fantastic or rare about that.

The Windows system disk is just another disk to Linux, and transferring
files over usb to a tablet is just normal business of the day.

Now, 2 gigabytes per minute means 33 MB/second. As USB-2 can do
440Mbit/S, that is hardly surprising, providing the write speed of the
target device is up to the task. If not, you are measuring the cache speed.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[Carlos E. R.]

On 14/09/2018 17.43, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On 14 Sep 2018 14:31:56 GMT, nospam wrote:
>
>
>> nope.
>>
>
>> that doesn't matter and there is no complexity, other than what you're
>> creating for yourself.
>
>> there's no need to do that.
>
>> you didn't, but others certainly have, and not just ios either.
>
>> that's not specific to android, and also not needed.
>
>> absolutely false.
>
> As always, the Apple Apologist nospam proves in every post that all he
> _can_ do, is play his fifth-grade silly semantic games.

Actually, he is mostly right this time :-P


--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[Arlen Holder]

On 14 Sep 2018 15:47:36 GMT, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> I fail to see what is so fantastic or rare about that.

Hi Carlos,

Thanks for the adult question, where we've spoken a lot in the past so I
know you are generally reasonable. (See the speed question for you at the
end of this post.)

*The biggest deal is that most people don't *know* of this clever method!*

Bearing in mind how *simple* this method is, and how *powerful* it is, the
big deal is simply disseminating the *knowledge* of this clever system.

What's fantastic is the simple *power* & *flexibility* of this USB method.
- Any mobile device (it doesn't matter who owns the device)
- Any file (it doesn't matter what size or file type it is)
- Any number of files (that's why we use the native "file explorer")
- Zero proprietary software (there are no limitations on cross platforms)
- Zero setup (everything mounts automatically)
etc.

Bear in mind there are tens of thousands (likely) of threads on "how to
copy" from either iOS or Android to Windows, right?

If all those people knew of this patently simple method, they wouldn't be
asaking all those question, now would they?

So the "big deal" is the *knowledge* of the simple secrets.
HINT: The secret to copying to *Windows* is to use *Linux!* <--- clever!

What else is fantastic is that, while you're very knowledgeable, most
people are not anywhere nearly as knowledgeable as you are, in terms of
networking abilities.

Hence, most people use kludges like the iTunes abomination or HTTP servers
on the mobile devices.

For example, has anyone posited a *better* (e.g., faster?) method yet?
HINT: The answer is that there is likely no better USB method known to man.
If there was, someone would propose it, wouldn't they?

> The Windows system disk is just another disk to Linux, and transferring
> files over usb to a tablet is just normal business of the day.

Carlos ... we have to be realistic when we speak facts.
You just spoke a patently valid fact. I agree.

Adults easily agree on facts.
Facts are funny that way.

My primary response to you is simply what about the reverse?
Bearing in mind that the movies I was transferring came over on Windows.

I know you know the answer to this next question, but I pose it so that
others can see why *this method* is the *best* known to man.

Here's the reverse question (rhetorical for you, Carlos, but not others):
Q: Is this statement true or false?
"The /Linux/ system disk is just another disk to /Windows/,

and transferring files over usb to a tablet is just normal
business of the day."

The point is that if you approach this same problem set from the Windows
platform (and likely from the Mac, but it's hard to tell given that Apple
Apologists live in a world of imaginary belief systems) - it won't work as
well.

Only if you approach it from the Ubuntu side of the desktop, does this
method work so stupendously astoundingly well.

HINT: There's no need for iTunes or proprietary Apple device drivers with
this method.

> Now, 2 gigabytes per minute means 33 MB/second. As USB-2 can do
> 440Mbit/S, that is hardly surprising, providing the write speed of the
> target device is up to the task. If not, you are measuring the cache speed.

Carlos ... let's learn more about speed!

The 2GB/minute were my ad hoc results from this morning's effort.

You're likely using far newer equipment than I am, since all my desktops
are about a decade old - so it would be nice to know what the *fastest
likely speeds are achievable on these two circumstances:

What are reasonably attainable speeds on:
1. USB on a more modern desktop to/from an iOS/Android mobile device.
...versus...
2. FTP/SMB/HTTP on those same (i/o limited?) devices

Note: I'm not sure where the speed limitations lie, so let's assume the
latest operating systems of Ubuntu 18.04, Android 7 or 8, iOS 11 or 12, and
Windows 7 or 10.

[Arlen Holder]

On 14 Sep 2018 15:51:40 GMT, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> Actually, he is mostly right this time :-P

Hi Carlos,

I need you to answer an adult question, from one adult to another.

The beauty of this method is the realization that the fastest way to copy
huge numbers of files of huge sizes between mobile devices and Windows, is
to use Linux.

Since you are an adult, and since you seem to have comprehended what nospam
said that is "right" about that statement, I need you to clarify for me
what you think nospam is right about, with respect to that topic.

What is nospam right about with respect to my statement above which is that
the fastest way to copy files to and from any mobile device and Windows, is
to use USB on Linux?

[Jasen Betts]

On 2018-09-14, Arlen Holder <arlen...@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 14 Sep 2018 21:01:58 GMT, Arlen Holder wrote:
>
>> In fact, we've tested for years _all_ the known free FTP solutions and
>> written them up many times, on these same newsgroups, where, *all* the
>> desktop operating systems will handle the FTP addressing scheme.
>> ftp://machine-name-or-ip-address/sharename
>>
>> That means Ubuntu's Nautilus & Dolphin respect that addressing scheme
>> That means Windows' File Explorer networking respects that scheme
>
> In addition, with respect to the FTP-server method, where the FTP server
> runs on the rather io-limited mobile device (compared to most desktops), in
> general, you want the server to be on the more powerful less io-limited
> desktops, if you can work that out.

why? all an FTP server does is convert network traffic into file
access you don't need a 20W cpu to do that efficiently.

> Also, since technical details matter when performing cross platform
> connections, for the FTP-server method, the mobile device machine name
> generally needs to be in the HOSTS file.
>
> The IP address always works, but that brings up the complexities inherent
> in the mobile devices constantly coming on and going off your local
> network, where their IP address "can" change.
>
> We studied these changes in detail a few years ago, where they're
> remarkably consistent in most situations, but the fact is that the IP
> address "can" change unless you fix it permanently on your local LAN.

the router here puts up a DNS alias for each machine that gets a DHCP
address, so you can use names if you have a capable DHCP server.
(actually it also found the name for my linux PC which has a static IP address... -
I'm not sure how it did that Bonjour perhaps. )


--
ت

[Arlen Holder]

On 15 Sep 2018 00:12:20 GMT, Jasen Betts wrote:

> why? all an FTP server does is convert network traffic into file
> access you don't need a 20W cpu to do that efficiently.

Hi Jasen Betts,

You bring up an adult question, but I can tell from your question that
you're naive, particularly when it comes to iOS and FTP results.

But you know more about networking than I do, which I openly admit.
You just don't appear to understand how FTP is different with iOS.

But before I educate you on what you appear to be clueless about (based on
what you wrote anyway), first let me summarize the actual intended topic of
this thread, which was to edify people who don't already now about the fact

that the fastest way to copy huge numbers of files of huge sizes between

any iOS/Android mobile device and Windows, is to use Linux.

*That is _clearly_ the topic of this thread.*

If you have a *better* method which is both faster & easier than this
method, please do share your expert knowledge with the rest of us, since I
posit that *nobody* knows of a faster method than this method.

In fact, I would *love* to hear you give us a *better* method.
HINT: It has to work for iOS as well as it does for Android! <-- think!

> why? all an FTP server does is convert network traffic into file
> access you don't need a 20W cpu to do that efficiently.

First off, I need to ask you if you've ever used the FTP-server method on
iOS? Have you?

Hint: *It's completely different than the FTP-server method on Android!*

Hence, if you're proposing the FTP-server method as a *better* method than
the USB method, then we're going to have to look at this problem set like
adults do.
* The FTP method has to be faster than the USB method
* The FTP method has to handle larger files better than the USB method
* The FTP method has to handle dispersed files better than the USB method
and ...
* The FTP method has to work with iOS as well as it works with Android!

Bear in mind this isn't my first rodeo with people who *think* they have
all the answers, but who don't realize that iOS is *different* than all the
other common consumer operating systems.

HINT: FTP is unrelated to the topic of this thread *unless* you're actually
suggesting that FTP is either more universal or faster method than is USB
for copying from and to both iOS and Android file systems to and from
Windows using Linux.

> the router here puts up a DNS alias for each machine that gets a DHCP
> address, so you can use names if you have a capable DHCP server.
> (actually it also found the name for my linux PC which has a static IP address... -
> I'm not sure how it did that Bonjour perhaps. )

Hi Jason Betts,

Bearing in mind the topic of this thread is USB file transfer, the
off-topic FTP method has advantages (e.g., no wires) and disadvantages
(e.g., slower).

Since you seem to want to change the topic to FTP file transfer, I have to
then ask if you've ever done that FTP file transfer using iOS devices
(bearing in mind that it's fundamentally different than with Android)?

Have you?

In addition...

I readily admit you know more about networking that I know, so I
respectfully ask you to answer the same adult question I asked of Carlos:

What are reasonably attainable speeds on:
1. USB on a more modern desktop to/from an iOS/Android mobile device.
...versus...

2. FTP/SMB/HTTP on those same (cpu/i/o limited?) mobile devices

[Arlen Holder]

On 15 Sep 2018 00:54:36 GMT, Arlen Holder wrote:

> Since you seem to want to change the topic to FTP file transfer, I have to
> then ask if you've ever done that FTP file transfer using iOS devices
> (bearing in mind that it's fundamentally different than with Android)?
>
> Have you?
>
> In addition...
>
> I readily admit you know more about networking that I know, so I
> respectfully ask you to answer the same adult question I asked of Carlos:
>
> What are reasonably attainable speeds on:
> 1. USB on a more modern desktop to/from an iOS/Android mobile device.
> ...versus...
> 2. FTP/SMB/HTTP on those same (cpu/i/o limited?) mobile devices

I should be clear that it was nospam who wanted to change the topic from
USB file transfer between mobile devices & Windows via Linux ... to FTP
file transfer between those same file systems ... perhaps because nospam
knows full well how dismal iOS is with USB file transfer to and from native
Windows.

HINT: It can't be done with iOS because iOS is brain dead for USB.
Why doesn't Apple just let you manage your iOS file system natively on Windows?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/WjeGznahZwc%5B101-125%5D>

I wish to be clear that it wasn't Carlos or Jason who desperately wants the
subject to NOT be about what iOS clearly can't do, to something that iOS
potentially can do.

But if we switch the topic to FTP, which is the only thing iOS can do with
native Windows, then you have to understand how fundamentally different the
results are from USB when you try to do the same things with iOS on FTP.

*Are you aware of these iOS-based limitations when you speak about FTP?*

[Arlen Holder]

On 15 Sep 2018 00:23:32 GMT, Arlen Holder wrote:

> What are reasonably attainable speeds on:
> 1. USB on a more modern desktop to/from an iOS/Android mobile device.
> ...versus...
> 2. FTP/SMB/HTTP on those same (i/o limited?) devices

While the typical speeds to be attained over USB & FTP should be clearly
stated, if we're to be adults about this discussion ... I wish to be clear
that this thread was never intended to be about FTP.

[nospam]

In article <pnhl8c$esj$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen Holder

<arlen...@nospam.net> wrote:

>
> But you know more about networking than I do, which I openly admit.

dandelions know more about networking than you do.

> You just don't appear to understand how FTP is different with iOS.

it isn't.

[nospam]

In article <pnhmca$h1a$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen Holder

<arlen...@nospam.net> wrote:

> I readily admit you know more about networking that I know, so I

...

> I should be clear that it was nospam who wanted to change the topic from
> USB file transfer between mobile devices & Windows via Linux ... to FTP
> file transfer between those same file systems ... perhaps because nospam
> knows full well how dismal iOS is with USB file transfer to and from native
> Windows.

more of your lies. i didn't change anything and *you* mentioned ftp.

i was only correcting your numerous false statements about networking,
a topic about which you admit you know nothing.

> HINT: It can't be done with iOS because iOS is brain dead for USB.

it can, and the only brain dead entity is you.

[nospam]

In article <pnhmed$h1r$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen Holder

<arlen...@nospam.net> wrote:

>
> While the typical speeds to be attained over USB & FTP should be clearly
> stated,

ftp doesn't have a 'typical speed'. it's whatever the network and
devices support.

> if we're to be adults about this discussion ... I wish to be clear
> that this thread was never intended to be about FTP.

then why did you mention it?

> I should be clear that it was nospam who wanted to change the topic from
> USB file transfer between mobile devices & Windows via Linux ... to FTP
> file transfer between those same file systems ... perhaps because nospam
> knows full well how dismal iOS is with USB file transfer to and from native
> Windows.

it should be clear that you're trolling, again.

[Arlen Holder]

On 14 Sep 2018 18:24:00 GMT, nospam wrote:

> ftp doesn't have a 'typical speed'. it's whatever the network and
> devices support.

The cross-platform limiting factor here is always going to be iOS.

Q: What method do you propose for full r/w access to all visible files on
all mobile devices, to and from native Windows, if you don't use this
method?

HINT:
a. iOS is the limiting factor
b. iOS is brain dead on Windows USB
c. iOS is barely functional on FTP (compared to Linux USB)

This thread is about the fastest possible read/write file transfer between
both iOS & Android mobile devices and native Windows, via native Linux.

That mechanism, bar none, gives the best cross platform method that works
read/write on both iOS and Android to and from native Windows, using Linux.

The problem here is that others don't know what I know, where you know full
well that *iOS USB file transfer is brain dead on native Windows*.

So you desperately wish to change the subject to FTP.
Why?

Because iOS isn't as brain dead for FTP as iOS is brain dead for USB.
That's why.

You do this silly trick _all_ the time, nospam.

Since you, nospam, are an expert at playing your silly childish games,
you'll likely be successful at changing the subject from what iOS clearly
can't do - to something that - at least - iOS can partially do.

However, if you wish to make the topic FTP, then you're going to have to
answer adult questions on how FTP on iOS is drastically different in
effective results (due to astoundingly huge Apple-created limitations) than
the results are on Android.

*I ask you nospam, do you really want to make this thread about FTP?*

Because, if you do, the astoundingly huge limitations of iOS as compared to
Android on FTP will need to be explained to the naive on this newsgroup.

HINT: The limitations of iOS with respect to FTP file access, compared to
that of Android, are astoundingly severe.

The point is that the huge cross-platform limitations in picking the *best*
and *fastest* and most *versatile* file-system transfer read/write
mechanism, bar none, between all the mobile devices, is *always* going to
be limited by these two facts:
FACT 1: *iOS is essentially brain dead for native Windows USB

to be iOS on Windows USB, nor is it ever going to be iOS on FTP.

>> if we're to be adults about this discussion ... I wish to be clear
>> that this thread was never intended to be about FTP.
>
> then why did you mention it?

You can play your silly childish games nospam, where the adults will have
to ponder these very potent cogent facts:
1. iOS is brain dead when it comes to r/w USB transfers with native Windows
2. iOS is less brain dead - but still brain dead - for FTP file transfers

Most of the Linux people responding (e.g., Carlos & Jason) appear to be
ignorant of this fact - but I know you're well aware of the astoundingly
huge limitations of iOS.

Hence, since iOS is always the limiting factor when designing a
cross-platform read/write file-transfer stystem, the *only* mechanism that
works at all - is the one I propose.

Tell me ... nospam ... how does your vaunted FTP file system work when the
FTP server you're putting on iOS can't even *access* the files that USB can
access?

> it should be clear that you're trolling, again.

It should be clear that I'm proposing a workable system, that works as well
for iOS as it does for Android, and which utilizes native Ubuntu simply
because native Windows is not as powerful as is native Ubuntu on accessing
foreign file systems.

Those are facts that *adults* will comprehend.

Hence, it's not at all surprising that you can't comprehend those facts.
*Just because you don't like facts, doesn't make them not facts.*

Back on topic, if *anyone* here knows of a *better* way to access *all* the
visible files on both iOS and Android, any iOS or Android device (not just
ones where you have an Apple ID on them, for example), both read and write,
to all four file systems simultaneously (yes, Windows, Linux, Android, and
iOS), then now is the time to prove you actually comprehend the topic.

In summary:
Q: What method do you propose for full r/w access to all visible files on
all mobile devices, to and from native Windows, if you don't use this
method?

HINT:
a. iOS is the limiting factor
b. iOS is brain dead on Windows USB
c. iOS is barely functional on FTP (compared to Linux USB)

[Arlen Holder]

On 14 Sep 2018 18:23:59 GMT, nospam wrote:

> it can, and the only brain dead entity is you.

All you _can_ do, nospam, is play your silly childish games.

*For a moment, I'll assume you can act like an adult, nospam.*

Hence I will ask this simple on-topic question, bearing in mind that the
Linux users aren't aware (apparently) of the astoundingly huge limitations
of networking with iOS (as compared to Android) ... I simply ask:

Q: What free software do you propose I install on iOS that will result in a
*better* (faster, easier, more powerful, etc.) file-transfer than the
method I proposed in the original post.

The limiting factor, unfortunately, for all cross-platform file transfers
is always going to be the astoundingly huge limitations of iOS.

That's a fact you hate. But it's still a fact nonetheless.
Hence, *any* system you propose, has to work for iOS as well as for
Android, on native Windows, which is the topic.

The topic is clearly to propose the *best* cross platform completely
unrestricted read/write file system transfer between native iOS, Android,
Windows, and Ubuntu common consumer devices.

Just because you don't like facts doesn't make facts not facts.

*It's a fact iOS is brain dead on native Windows USB r/w file transfer.*
You can dance silly games all you want around that fact.
But the fact you don't like facts doesn't make facts not facts.

*It's a fact iOS is nearly brain dead on FTP file transfer.*
Again, you can dance silly games around this fact, but you will be asked
the adult question of which free FTP server for iOS will access read/write
the same files that the USB method accesses.

*For a moment, I'll assume you can act like an adult, nospam.*

Hence I will ask this simple on-topic question, bearing in mind that the
Linux users aren't aware (apparently) of the astoundingly huge limitations
of networking with iOS (as compared to Android) ... I simply ask:

Q: What free software do you propose I install on iOS that will result in a
*better* (faster, easier, more powerful, etc.) file-transfer than the
method I proposed in the original post.

HINT: I posit that nobody on the planet has a better system than the one
originally proposed - but if you, nospam, are such a genius, then please
propose your "better" system.
--
HINT: You just make everything up ... hence ... you have no better system!

[Arlen Holder]

On 14 Sep 2018 18:23:58 GMT, nospam wrote:

> dandelions know more about networking than you do.

All you _can_ do, nospam, is play your childish silly games.
HINT: Only a fifth grader would think your retort hilariously clever.

Yet ... I'm all for learning from your innate wisdom, nospam:
Hence...
*For a moment, I'll assume you _can_ act like an adult, nospam.*

Hence I will ask this simple on-topic question, bearing in mind that the
Linux users aren't aware (apparently) of the astoundingly huge limitations
of networking with iOS (as compared to Android) ... I simply ask:

Q: What free software do you propose I install on iOS that will result in a
*better* (faster, easier, more powerful, etc.) file-transfer than the
method I proposed in the original post.

HINT: The same question is asked of everyone, not just the child above.
If you can name a *better* system - name it now. If feasible, I'll try it.

[nospam]

In article <pnho2j$jfr$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen Holder

<arlen...@nospam.net> wrote:

> > ftp doesn't have a 'typical speed'. it's whatever the network and
> > devices support.
>
> The cross-platform limiting factor here is always going to be iOS.

nope. the limiting factor is *you*, especially given your sheer lack of
knowledge about networking.

[nospam]

In article <pnhp18$l93$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen Holder

<arlen...@nospam.net> wrote:

> > dandelions know more about networking than you do.
>
> All you _can_ do, nospam, is play your childish silly games.
> HINT: Only a fifth grader would think your retort hilariously clever.

actually, fifth graders would laugh at your ignorance, and probably
have some choice words to throw in too.

> Yet ... I'm all for learning from your innate wisdom, nospam:

nothing you've said or done has indicated you're interested in learning
anything from *anyone*.

[Arlen Holder]

On 14 Sep 2018 19:07:41 GMT, nospam wrote:

> nothing you've said or done has indicated you're interested in learning
> anything from *anyone*.

Notice everyone, that nospam can't possibly answer the on-topic question.

*All nospam _can_ do, is play his silly fifth-grade childish games.*

He knows iOS is brain dead on rw USB file transfer with native Windows.
And he knows iOS is nearly brain dead on FTP file transfer with Windows.

So all nospam _can_ do, is play his silly fifth-grade childish games.

Meanwhile, for the *adults* on this newsgroup, given that iOS is always the
limiting factor in cross-platform functionality, the on-topic question is

Q: What free software do you propose we install (particularly on iOS) that
will result in *better* (faster, easier, more powerful, etc.) read/write
file-transfer to/from native Windows to/from any iOS/Android device, than
the USB-to-Windows-via-Linux method I outlined in the original post.

[Arlen Holder]

On 14 Sep 2018 15:47:36 GMT, Carlos E. R. wrote:

> I fail to see what is so fantastic or rare about that.

Hi Carlos,
I finally realized why you said that!

At first, I thought you didn't recognize the trick of using Linux.
Linux was used to read/write to the Windows file system.
That's because iOS won't work with Windows - but Linux will.

But then I realized you are probably unaware of other key issues.
You don't appear to understand how limited iOS is, compared to Android.

So the answer to your question is simply the answer to this question:

Q: What free software do you propose we install (particularly on iOS) that
will result in *better* (faster, easier, more powerful, etc.) read/write
file-transfer to/from native Windows to/from any iOS/Android device, than
the USB-to-Windows-via-Linux method I outlined in the original post.

*I would _love_ if someone smarter than I, can answer _that_ question!!!*

[Arlen Holder]

On 14 Sep 2018 19:07:40 GMT, nospam wrote:

> nope. the limiting factor is *you*, especially given your sheer lack of
> knowledge about networking.

Play your silly fifth grade childish games forever, nospam.
You never tire of being purposefully unhelpful in every post.

You appear to deprecate my networking ability, which is fine because this
thread isn't about my networking ability.

This thread is about networking.
*Answer this question ... if you actually have an _adult_ brain!*

[nospam]

In article <pnhsll$rai$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen Holder

<arlen...@nospam.net> wrote:

> You appear to deprecate my networking ability, which is fine because this
> thread isn't about my networking ability.

actually, it's about your network *inability*.

> This thread is about networking.

about which you know very little.

[Arlen Holder]

On 14 Sep 2018 20:55:52 GMT, nospam wrote:

> actually, it's about your network *inability*.
>
>> This thread is about networking.
>
> about which you know very little.

*You love to play your childish fifth-grade games, nospam.*

This thread isn't, and never was about my networking skills.
If someone on this ng is smarter than I am, I welcome a better solution.

Since you're not an adult, you'll never comprehend that sentence.
Still, the *adult* question here, for networking experts, is:

Q: What free software do you propose we install (particularly on iOS) that
will result in *better* (faster, easier, more powerful, etc.) read/write
file-transfer to/from native Windows to/from any iOS/Android device, than
the USB-to-Windows-via-Linux method I outlined in the original post.

*I would _love_ if someone smarter than I, can answer _that_ question!!!*

If nobody comes up with a better answer, then I'm not so dumb after all.
:)

HINT: You, nospam, will _never_ come up with *any* answer. You can't.

[Dan Purgert]

Arlen Holder wrote:
> On 14 Sep 2018 15:47:36 GMT, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>> I fail to see what is so fantastic or rare about that.
>
> Hi Carlos,
>
> Thanks for the adult question, where we've spoken a lot in the past so I
> know you are generally reasonable. (See the speed question for you at the
> end of this post.)
>
> *The biggest deal is that most people don't *know* of this clever method!*

Having grown up with computers, I'm more surprised that anyone wouldn't
know that thet can transfer between USB devices, especially given their
belonging to the group "users of GNU/linux-based OSes".

Maybe its just that kids are better at seeing obvious things. Like one
time, I remember that someone needed me to print 1 copy of like 50
documents on their slow-for-the-era PC.

- open directory
- <CTRL>+A
- right click menu -> print

(let the printer do its thing)
> [...]

> For example, has anyone posited a *better* (e.g., faster?) method yet?
> HINT: The answer is that there is likely no better USB method known to man.
> If there was, someone would propose it, wouldn't they?

Use USB3, and sufficiently fast USB slave devices. Bam, faster ;)
> [...]

> Here's the reverse question (rhetorical for you, Carlos, but not others):
> Q: Is this statement true or false?
> "The /Linux/ system disk is just another disk to /Windows/,
> and transferring files over usb to a tablet is just normal
> business of the day."

Unless defaults have changed with the advent of WSL, false. Windows is
(was) by default incapable of reading most standard filesystems used by
GNU/Linux systems.

Tablets / phones, of course, hide the filesystem behind their USB
controller, and simply present themselves as "USB Mass Storage" or
similar. So they have an extra layer of abstraction, similar to running
samba server on a linux host.
> [...]

>> Now, 2 gigabytes per minute means 33 MB/second. As USB-2 can do
>> 440Mbit/S, that is hardly surprising, providing the write speed of the
>> target device is up to the task. If not, you are measuring the cache speed.
>
> Carlos ... let's learn more about speed!
>
> The 2GB/minute were my ad hoc results from this morning's effort.
>
> You're likely using far newer equipment than I am, since all my desktops
> are about a decade old - so it would be nice to know what the *fastest
> likely speeds are achievable on these two circumstances:
>
> What are reasonably attainable speeds on:
> 1. USB on a more modern desktop to/from an iOS/Android mobile device.

USB didn't work at all. Most likely a faulty cable or port on the
phone. Port on the PC is fine, since USB mass storgge devices are shown
without trouble.

> 2. FTP/SMB/HTTP on those same (i/o limited?) devices

SFTP to the same machine (phone on wifi, machine 1gbit ethernet), 1400
files (total 8.2GB) took about 2100 seconds (35 minutes), with an
average transfer speed of 3.9 MB / second. Unfortunately, because it
was 1400 * 4 MB files, the transfer started / stopped for every file,
would've gone about half again as fast had it been a single file (see
below).

A 3.2 GB transfer to the phone took about 10 minutes. Ran at 6-6.25
MB/s over 1x1 [5 Ghz / 40MHz channel] 802.11n (48-50 mbit/sec over a
medium that can on paper xfer at approx 150).

Appears the wifi is the culprit here, as both the phone and the PC
should be able to sustain higher xfer rates.

That being said, since the on-hand USB cables don't work, wifi transfer
is faster ;). Also, the wifi/sftp transfer has the benefits of not
requiring me to go upstairs to the office to plug things in (or, at the
moment, buy a new cable). Also works while I'm out of the house.



--
|_|O|_| Registered Linux user #585947
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5 4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

[nospam]

In article <slrnpppvl...@xps-linux.djph.net>, Dan Purgert

<d...@djph.net> wrote:

>
> That being said, since the on-hand USB cables don't work, wifi transfer
> is faster ;). Also, the wifi/sftp transfer has the benefits of not
> requiring me to go upstairs to the office to plug things in (or, at the
> moment, buy a new cable). Also works while I'm out of the house.

yep. wireless is the future.

[Arlen Holder]

On 15 Sep 2018 12:44:29 GMT, Dan Purgert wrote:

> Having grown up with computers, I'm more surprised that anyone wouldn't
> know that thet can transfer between USB devices, especially given their
> belonging to the group "users of GNU/linux-based OSes".

(This is only going to a.o.l, as you requested.)

THANK YOU for your speed tests! (See bottom of this message!)
(It's nice to deal with adults!)

I think you are astute - but I think you're "too smart" in a way.

By that, I mean you may give people too much credit, since, it's a fact
that the cross-platform stumbling block is iOS, not Android so all the work
is in getting it to work read and write for the entire visible file system.

On Android, that's trivial. It's not trivial on iOS.
Hence the tricks that I spoke about (which nobody yet has improved upon but
I wish they would since I'm not the smartest guy on the planet).

How many people know that iOS is completely brain dead on USB with native
Windows for read and write file transfer (it's impossible, in fact)?

You know that. I know that. But a lot of people don't know that.

So, how many people *know* that they can surmount this brain dead situation
simply by booting to Linux instead of to Windows?

You know that. I know that. But a lot of people don't know that.

Then, in addition, how many people know that Linux reads Windows file
systems just fine (for the most part) while Windows does NOT read Linux
file systems at all (for the most part).

You know that. I know that. But a lot of people don't know that.

Hence, the "trick" is knowing two very important facts:
1. Linux can read Windows' disks, and,
2. iOS is completely brain dead on native Windows but not Linux

If people know of a better trick to get read and write access to the entire
visible file system of iOS, then I'm all ears (but it's not gonna be FTP
and anyone who says that it is FTP hasn't actually done it, IMHO).

> Maybe its just that kids are better at seeing obvious things. Like one
> time, I remember that someone needed me to print 1 copy of like 50
> documents on their slow-for-the-era PC.

As I said, it's not obvious to everyone that the trick to obtain full read
and write access to iOS onto native Windows is through Linux.

While that trick is intuitive to you ...

That trick is not intuitive to everyone ... is it?

> Use USB3, and sufficiently fast USB slave devices. Bam, faster ;)

While I appreciate the suggestion, what I love are real facts.
I've asked twice already (of Carlos, and of Jason).

Nobody has answered yet the critical question of how fast can we
realistically expect a mobile device USB transfer to be?

Which device or protocol is the limiting factor when we're talking iOS and
Android devices which aren't likely optimized for USB speeds, are they?

Does anyone have actual facts on actual speeds?
(I don't ... so that's why I ask.)

> Unless defaults have changed with the advent of WSL, false. Windows is
> (was) by default incapable of reading most standard filesystems used by
> GNU/Linux systems.

Exactly.
You know the critical stumbling block is that native Windows can not write
or even read the full visible file system of iOS ... so you know the trick
that Linux can read a Windows system disk - but Windows can't read a Linux
system disk.

That's exactly why the method I proposed (which came from a.o.l in the
first place) is so deviously clever!

It's too simple!
Yet, few people *know* about it.

Hence my FYI.
Still, it would be _great_ if a.o.l people could *improve* on the process
where it's frustating to have to deal with morons like nospam who make all
sorts of bogus claims about how bad the solution is - while never once
coming up with any workable solution on their own.

Even Jason and Carlos don't seem to understand, I think, why FTP is a joke.
(Maybe the do understand why, but they haven't said that they do.)

> Tablets / phones, of course, hide the filesystem behind their USB
> controller, and simply present themselves as "USB Mass Storage" or
> similar. So they have an extra layer of abstraction, similar to running
> samba server on a linux host.

That "extra layer of abstraction" is no problem on Android, but on iOS,
it's deadly.

In fact, without Linux, I don't know of a single way (other than
jailbreaking) to read/write access the entire visible file system on a
desktop of iOS.

I tried SMB, by the say (aka smbclient/samba), but it turns out that if you
don't root Android, SMB is basically brain dead on Android too.

So what I tried was:
- FTP (it doesn't work on iOS)
- SMB (it doesn't work on iOS nor Android)
- HTTP (it doesn't work on iOS)
- USB (it doesn't work on iOS)
- Linux USB (it works on both iOS and Android)

It took *years* to come up to this solution, so when people say it's
"obvious", I have to take exception to that.

Maybe I'm wrong, but is it really *obvious* to all of you that the *only*
way on earth known to man to get full read/write access to the entire
visible iOS filesystem to native Windows - is through Linux?

> USB didn't work at all. Most likely a faulty cable or port on the
> phone. Port on the PC is fine, since USB mass storgge devices are shown
> without trouble.

*THANK YOU* for trying that speed test!

The speed is everything!
So it's great that you at least tried!

THANK YOU!

I'm not sure what you know, but I will repeat the sad fact that USB on iOS
is basically a non starter for read and write access on native Windows for
the entire iOS visible file system.

It works fine on native Ubuntu 18.04 - but not on native Windows 10.

The best speeds I can attain, admittedly on an old desktop, are 2GB per
minute where the limiting fact could very well be the iOS or Android
device.

> SFTP to the same machine (phone on wifi, machine 1gbit ethernet), 1400
> files (total 8.2GB) took about 2100 seconds (35 minutes), with an
> average transfer speed of 3.9 MB / second. Unfortunately, because it
> was 1400 * 4 MB files, the transfer started / stopped for every file,
> would've gone about half again as fast had it been a single file (see
> below).

Megabyte math is always tricky but that seems to add up to about 234
megabytes per minute, which is a good number to use if that's what it comes
down to.

If we stick with gigabytes per minute as the standard test size (although I
realize size and number of files matters greatly), that's about this:
- My test of USB = 2GB/minute
- Your test of FTP = 0.2GB/minute

So that one comparison, admittedly by two people on different data and
equipment, shows FTP to be about ten times slower than USB.

Does that sound about right?

> A 3.2 GB transfer to the phone took about 10 minutes. Ran at 6-6.25
> MB/s over 1x1 [5 Ghz / 40MHz channel] 802.11n (48-50 mbit/sec over a
> medium that can on paper xfer at approx 150).

Thanks for that second test, which, if my 2GB/minute for USB is
trustworthy, that makes the WiFi transfer only 5 times slower than USB (and
not ten times slower).

> Appears the wifi is the culprit here, as both the phone and the PC
> should be able to sustain higher xfer rates.

THIS IS A KEY POINT.
In the real world, we never get the advertised transfer rates (IMHO).

That's why I'm asking for real-world data.

Do you think the limiting factor is the WiFI or the phone itself?

> That being said, since the on-hand USB cables don't work, wifi transfer
> is faster ;).

Your humor is good. :)

I agree with that concept that the best method is the one that works.

> Also, the wifi/sftp transfer has the benefits of not
> requiring me to go upstairs to the office to plug things in (or, at the
> moment, buy a new cable). Also works while I'm out of the house.

I do both WiFi transfer and USB transfer, where I find the WiFi transfer
orders of magnitude *slower* than the USB transfer.

They *both* have their place:
- USB => Fast, simple, virtually unlimited for both iOS and Android
- FTP => Slower, extremely limited for iOS

But remember, USB to/from native Windows has to be done from Linux!
(That's the trick.)

[Dan Purgert]

Arlen Holder wrote:
> On 15 Sep 2018 12:44:29 GMT, Dan Purgert wrote:

> [...]

>> Use USB3, and sufficiently fast USB slave devices. Bam, faster ;)
>
> While I appreciate the suggestion, what I love are real facts.
> I've asked twice already (of Carlos, and of Jason).

It was just a tongue-in-cheek response.

> Nobody has answered yet the critical question of how fast can we
> realistically expect a mobile device USB transfer to be?

Depends on the device, really. In my case, "zero". Most modern phones
(USB2/3 compliant) are supposedly snappy. It has less to do with the
CPU and more to do with the USB controller onboard.

> [...]

> It's too simple!
> Yet, few people *know* about it.
>
> Hence my FYI.

Yeh, I stumbled across your stuff on a.o.l, hence the somewhat "we know
already!" type response. Although checking the parent postings, perhaps
the windows groups don't know in general (but then, I would argue it is
on the poster to remove alt.os.linux from the discussion, as it is not
[no longer?] relevant to the group).

> Still, it would be _great_ if a.o.l people could *improve* on the process
> where it's frustating to have to deal with morons like nospam who make all
> sorts of bogus claims about how bad the solution is - while never once
> coming up with any workable solution on their own.

The standard response of "format and upgrade to Linux" still applies :).
As for trolls (of which I am not entirely sure nospam is one, or at
least is /always/ one), welcome to Usenet.

>
> Even Jason and Carlos don't seem to understand, I think, why FTP is a joke.
> (Maybe the do understand why, but they haven't said that they do.)

FTP is a joke, simply because it is FTP. But that's been the case for a
good long while now.

Personally, I like either using my owncloud instance on the phone (via a
browser), as (S)FTP clients on android seem to be a bit touch and go. I
didn't bother testing it, as it has the same limitations as the FTP
client I use (i.e. one file at a time), and I don't have any files that
surpass 50MB sitting on it.

>
>> Tablets / phones, of course, hide the filesystem behind their USB
>> controller, and simply present themselves as "USB Mass Storage" or
>> similar. So they have an extra layer of abstraction, similar to running
>> samba server on a linux host.
>
> That "extra layer of abstraction" is no problem on Android, but on iOS,
> it's deadly.

Well, Apple is definitely "you play in our walled garden, or you go
away". I haven't used any of their kit since one of the first couple
generations of iPod ... and that was only because they were the only
*good* music player at the time, although when SanDisk had their little
thing that you could plug a Cruzer Micro into, I loved that player.

>
> I tried SMB, by the say (aka smbclient/samba), but it turns out that if you
> don't root Android, SMB is basically brain dead on Android too.

SMB is basically braindead everywhere :)

>
> So what I tried was:
> - FTP (it doesn't work on iOS)

Pretty sure iOS can connect to FTP *servers* still (unless apple fubar'd
that)

> - SMB (it doesn't work on iOS nor Android)
> - HTTP (it doesn't work on iOS)

iOS can definitely use http - you just have to have something like an
owncloud / nextcloud (etc.) instance, rather than "pure" http via curl
or the like.

> - USB (it doesn't work on iOS)
> - Linux USB (it works on both iOS and Android)
>
> It took *years* to come up to this solution, so when people say it's
> "obvious", I have to take exception to that.

Benefit of youth, I guess. Kids see "obvious" solutions to things that
adults tend to be too locked-in thinking wise to notice. But then again,
the whole usecase is a bit edge / corner, so even there some of the
"obviousness" is perhaps hindsight on the part of responders.

>
> Maybe I'm wrong, but is it really *obvious* to all of you that the *only*
> way on earth known to man to get full read/write access to the entire
> visible iOS filesystem to native Windows - is through Linux?

It's obvious that iOS and Windows are both bad in their own right, so
using both in conjunction is bad^2.

>
>> SFTP to the same machine (phone on wifi, machine 1gbit ethernet), 1400
>> files (total 8.2GB) took about 2100 seconds (35 minutes), with an
>> average transfer speed of 3.9 MB / second. Unfortunately, because it
>> was 1400 * 4 MB files, the transfer started / stopped for every file,
>> would've gone about half again as fast had it been a single file (see
>> below).
>
> Megabyte math is always tricky but that seems to add up to about 234
> megabytes per minute, which is a good number to use if that's what it comes
> down to.

Somewhere around there yes. However, note that the nature of the
transfer was "individual files", which added latency as they were sent
serially, with a stop/start in between each file.

> [...]

>> A 3.2 GB transfer to the phone took about 10 minutes. Ran at 6-6.25
>> MB/s over 1x1 [5 Ghz / 40MHz channel] 802.11n (48-50 mbit/sec over a
>> medium that can on paper xfer at approx 150).
>
> Thanks for that second test, which, if my 2GB/minute for USB is
> trustworthy, that makes the WiFi transfer only 5 times slower than USB (and
> not ten times slower).

Oops, I typo'd that -- the PHY rate of 1x1 802.11n at 40 MHz is 150
mbps, with on-paper throughput approaching 75 mbps.

Somewhat - note though that wifi transfers can vary wildly, simply due
to usage of the spectrum, as it is a shared medium.

Had the phone been connected to my wireless network with 802.11ac, given
the same settings (40 MHz channel, 1x1), the PHY rate would've been 200
mbps (an increase of 33%), with an expected on-paper throughput of up to
120 mbps (15 MB/sec) -- or a little more than double the throughput.

If we were to use our (approximate) 2/3 result (50 mbps is 2/3 of 75),
we would've transferred that 3.2 GB file at approximately 10 MB/sec (600
MB/min). Note, that this is of course "napkin math", and again, the real
world will make a mess of things.

>
>> Appears the wifi is the culprit here, as both the phone and the PC
>> should be able to sustain higher xfer rates.
>
> THIS IS A KEY POINT.
> In the real world, we never get the advertised transfer rates (IMHO).

We do, it's just that wifi PHY ratings combine the transmit and receive
throughput in order for bigger numbers on the box. Realistically, a
unidirectional transfer will (for pre-802.11ac wifi) top out at around
50% of the number.

For example, if you have "802.11n" 300mbps on the box, you'll top out at
150mbps on a clean channel, with one (1) active client. Generally, if
you have a handful of clients (such as at here), you'll get anywhere
from about 2/3 to 7/8 of that on-paper unidirectional throughput.

802.11ac includes even more black magic, resulting in an on-paper
unidirectional speed being closer to 65% of the "on the box" speed.
Again, assuming a single active client.

> [...]

>> Also, the wifi/sftp transfer has the benefits of not
>> requiring me to go upstairs to the office to plug things in (or, at the
>> moment, buy a new cable). Also works while I'm out of the house.
>
> I do both WiFi transfer and USB transfer, where I find the WiFi transfer
> orders of magnitude *slower* than the USB transfer.

The trouble with wifi is that phones are only just now starting to be
non-rubbish in terms of tranceivers. So, you have a sweet new phone
with ... a 1x1 antenna (using 40 MHz of spectrum, that's only 150 mbps
PHY on 802.11n / 200 mbps PHY on 802.11ac), as opposed to 2x2 antennas
which'll do 300 / 400.

And that's not even considering that 802.11ac can do use 80 or even 160
MHz of spectrum (433 or 866 mbps PHY with a 1x1 radio; or 866/1733 mbps
PHY with 2x2), or that high end 802.11ac cards may be 3x3 (600, 1300
mbps / 160 MHz not supported apparently), or with newer "wave2" coming
out, 4x4 (800, 1733, or 3466 mbps). NOTE -> I'm only looking at
40/80/160 MHz usage of spectrum, as 802.11ac doesn't support "MCS9" (max
data rate) with 20 MHz spectrum usage, so that'd kind of make a mess of
things.

Now USB 3.x on the other hand, yeah, that's an order of magnitude
increase over either of them for a phone (5gbps)

[Jasen Betts]

On 2018-09-15, Arlen Holder <arlen...@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 15 Sep 2018 00:12:20 GMT, Jasen Betts wrote:
>
>> why? all an FTP server does is convert network traffic into file
>> access you don't need a 20W cpu to do that efficiently.
>
> Hi Jasen Betts,
>
> You bring up an adult question, but I can tell from your question that
> you're naive, particularly when it comes to iOS and FTP results.

You may have read how to win freinds and influence people, but the
tactics therein just make you come across at invasive and pushy.

> But you know more about networking than I do, which I openly admit.
> You just don't appear to understand how FTP is different with iOS.

So are you going to explain that?

> But before I educate you on what you appear to be clueless about (based on
> what you wrote anyway), first let me summarize the actual intended topic of
> this thread, which was to edify people who don't already now about the fact
> that the fastest way to copy huge numbers of files of huge sizes between
> any iOS/Android mobile device and Windows, is to use Linux.

That's not acually a subject that interest me much. ftp doesn't seem
to have s size limit.

> *That is _clearly_ the topic of this thread.*

yeah... but I'm asking about one of the claims you made, you should
have stayed on topic!

> If you have a *better* method

I'm not really interested.

>> why? all an FTP server does is convert network traffic into file
>> access you don't need a 20W cpu to do that efficiently.

> First off, I need to ask you if you've ever used the FTP-server method on
> iOS? Have you?

Changing the subject again. are you going to answer why running an FTP
server is a bad thing? While wifi is usually slower than USB,
if you count the time taken to phyiscally connect the devices together
WIFI could easily be faster for small files after the one-time setup.

> Hint: *It's completely different than the FTP-server method on Android!*

hints at an answer.... I'm beginning to think that maybe you will
actually answer.

> Hence, if you're proposing the FTP-server method as a *better* method than
> the USB method, then we're going to have to look at this problem set like
> adults do.

No, I'm just questioning your claim, which you seem to have deleted.
Why did you do that? here it is again.

>>> In addition, with respect to the FTP-server method, where the FTP
>>> server runs on the rather io-limited mobile device (compared to
>>> most desktops), in general, you want the server to be on the more
>>> powerful less io-limited desktops, if you can work that out.

Why are you making that claim?

> HINT: FTP is unrelated to the topic of this thread *unless* you're actually
> suggesting that FTP is either more universal or faster method than is USB
> for copying from and to both iOS and Android file systems to and from
> Windows using Linux.

Indeed, but that doesn't do anything to answer my question about what
you wrote, and if it's off tpoic why did you write about it?

>> the router here puts up a DNS alias for each machine that gets a DHCP
>> address, so you can use names if you have a capable DHCP server.
>> (actually it also found the name for my linux PC which has a static IP address... -
>> I'm not sure how it did that Bonjour perhaps. )
>
> Hi Jason Betts,
>
> Bearing in mind the topic of this thread is USB file transfer, the
> off-topic FTP method has advantages (e.g., no wires) and disadvantages
> (e.g., slower).

I'm replyinmg to claims you made. you seem to be suggesting that
it's ok to lie if it supports your claim. I'd ask if that is your
position, but if I did you'd obvioisly answer "no".

> Since you seem to want to change the topic to FTP file transfer, I have to

Not what I'm trying to do.

> then ask if you've ever done that FTP file transfer using iOS devices
> (bearing in mind that it's fundamentally different than with Android)?
>
> Have you?

No. Ae you going to offer any details on how it's different?

> In addition...
>
> I readily admit you know more about networking that I know, so I
> respectfully ask you to answer the same adult question I asked of Carlos:
>
> What are reasonably attainable speeds on:
> 1. USB on a more modern desktop to/from an iOS/Android mobile device.
> ...versus...
> 2. FTP/SMB/HTTP on those same (cpu/i/o limited?) mobile devices

I don't know, and am not particularly interested.

--
ت

[Arlen Holder]

On 16 Sep 2018 01:28:51 GMT, Jasen Betts wrote:

> You may have read how to win freinds and influence people, but the
> tactics therein just make you come across at invasive and pushy.

*All I ask of you, Jasen, is that you try to act like an adult.*
I only speak facts.
That puts people off.

But I also *add value*.
And I speak with facts so everyone can actually *do* what I propose!

You'll notice nospam just makes everything up.
He's wrong more than is the monkey.

In twenty years (many thousands of posts)...
I've *never* been wrong yet, simply because I speak facts.

Facts are funny that way.

I'm sure I've had typos, but nobody has ever been able to show a single
time that I have not spoken facts - simply becuase I don't say things that
aren't facts.

Adults are funny that way.
We speak facts.

I realize that puts a lot of people off since I'm very factual.
I'm not going to baby someone who doesn't speak facts.

If you want to dispute the facts, you need to dispute with facts.
I'm perfectly happy to learn facts from others.

>> You just don't appear to understand how FTP is different with iOS.
>
> So are you going to explain that?

It's obvious since that's a fact.
You never once mentioend anything about how FTP on iOS is different.
And the fact is, that it's extremely different (in what it does).

So, since you didn't mention it, then my statement is clear.
You haven't shown that you understand how vastly different iOS is when it
comes to FTP - so - since your premise is all about FTP - and yet - you
don't appear to acknowledge that FTP basically doesn't work on iOS
(effectively, to see the entire visible file system), then it's not clear
to me that you know what you're talking about.

Remember, a cross platform solution has to work.

You can't just have it work for Android (which works great) but not for iOS
(which sucks when it comes to what FTP can do).

Does that make sense?
It's a fact - so if you don't understand the fact - it's easily proven.

Facts are funny that way.

> That's not acually a subject that interest me much. ftp doesn't seem
> to have s size limit.

We could wax philosophically on how FTP differs from USB.
But the major issue isn't that.
The major issue is that FTP sucks (IMHO) on iOS compared to USB.

FTP is fine, in contrast, with Android.
SO it's a cross platform problem - not an FTP specific problem.

Most people forget (IMHO), that cross platform problems have to take a
solution that works for all the platforms discussed, which, in this case,
is
1. The user is mainly on Windows
2. The user has both iOS and Android
3. The user is smart enough to dual boot to Linux when needed

That's the problem set I'm covering.
If you want to define a different problem set, then the solution may very
well be different.

As a trivially simple example, if you omit iOS, everything gets easier.
FTP works OK if you eliminate iOS as part of the problem set (IMHO).

Hence, it's critical that you show me that you understand that, if you're
going to try to dispute my facts about FTP on iOS.

>
>> *That is _clearly_ the topic of this thread.*
>
> yeah... but I'm asking about one of the claims you made, you should
> have stayed on topic!

If you want to play games, then I won't play.
You can see that nospam, for an example, is an expert at game playing.

He always flatly refutes anything he wants to.
And yet, he can't come up with a single solution to help people.

Never forget my purpose is to HELP people.
Just like Marek used to constantly help people.

It's the right thing to do to help people.

If all you want to do is gripe that I've helped people by giving them a
solution that actually works while your proposed solution doesn't work (for
iOS, for example), then I'll call you out on it.

Just be an adult with me ... and I'll be an adult back.
It's really a very simple equation.

>> If you have a *better* method
>
> I'm not really interested.

Whenever I see that childish retort, then I know facts aren't your forte.
I've seen that fifth-grade retort for decades from Usenet children.

When I confront you with actual facts - you retort you're not interested.

Just because you aren't interested in facts, doesn't make facts not facts.

On Usenet, there are many people like you, who can't handle facts.

> Changing the subject again. are you going to answer why running an FTP
> server is a bad thing?

I said it many times.
I have *plenty* of threads on FTP servers on mobile devices.
I gave *plenty* of URLs on that.
I explained *plenty* of reasons why it's substandard.

That you whooshed on the reasons, doesn't mean I didn't answer.

Let's summarize a few, off hand.
1. I already explained the IP address issues which don't exist with USB
2. I already explained the speed issues which don't exist with USB
3. I already explained the iOS issues which don't exist with Android
4. I even touched on the Windows inconsistency issues with FTP (personal
experience where I tested *every* FTP server available on Android and
concluded long ago it was Windows that was flaky, not Android).
etc.

While it's a fact I already answered your question, and while it's a fact
that I provided URLs to those answers, why do you not *comprehend* those
answers?

BTW, since you're a adult, you don't have to *believe* the answers.
But you can't say I didn't already answer your question many times.

Why do you make me *repeat* the answers?
You make a baseless claim that I didn't answer.

Adults don't act that way.

> While wifi is usually slower than USB,
> if you count the time taken to phyiscally connect the devices together
> WIFI could easily be faster for small files after the one-time setup.

I have absolutely nothing against WiFi (other than it's slower but that's
OK as it's *different* than USB for the obvious reasons).

The problem always is not "WiFi" but how it works cross platform with all
four devices, where the one device you always have to keep in mind is iOS,
which is the weak link in the cross platform solution.

Let me ask you a patently simple question to see if you understand WiFI.
Q: How can all people access all visible files on all iOS devices on the
local network through WiFi in a way that also works with Windows, Linux,
and Android?

HINT: If you can't answer that question, then we have an issue with your
facts.

> hints at an answer.... I'm beginning to think that maybe you will
> actually answer.

How many times can you *miss* the answer to your questions?

Adults don't normally act that way.
Children do.

> No, I'm just questioning your claim, which you seem to have deleted.
> Why did you do that?

I've been on Usenet for decades where people who play silly games say what
you just say.

Don't you know *anything* about quoting?
Is this your first week on Usenet? (hint: rhetorical question).

while styles vary, my style is the well accepted style which can be
summarized as you quote what you respond to. No more. No less.
<http://www.html-faq.com/etiquette/?quoting?>

HINT: People who play silly games hate when you don't quote their entire
post (personal experience) because it prevents them from playing their
silly games.

> here it is again.
>
>>>> In addition, with respect to the FTP-server method, where the FTP
>>>> server runs on the rather io-limited mobile device (compared to
>>>> most desktops), in general, you want the server to be on the more
>>>> powerful less io-limited desktops, if you can work that out.
>
> Why are you making that claim?

Do you have any idea how vastly limited the iOS FTP server access is?
Do you?

If you don't, then you can't possibly ask me that question, since the
limitation, as I've said many times, is mostly on the iOS side when it
comes to read and write FTP access to the entire visible file system.

On most desktops, the FTP server is NOT limited in terms of what read/write
access it has to the entire visible file system.

On Android, as I said many times, it's better (far better) than it is on
iOS.

>> HINT: FTP is unrelated to the topic of this thread *unless* you're actually
>> suggesting that FTP is either more universal or faster method than is USB
>> for copying from and to both iOS and Android file systems to and from
>> Windows using Linux.
>
> Indeed, but that doesn't do anything to answer my question about what
> you wrote, and if it's off tpoic why did you write about it?

The reason FTP matters is that anyone who suggests FTP as being better than
USB has to explain how, other than the obvious, which is that no cable is
needed - where everyone knows that.

What people don't seem to know, for example, is the hugely critical
limitation of FTP with respect to read/write access to teh entire visible
file system on iOS.

This thread is about cross platform solutions that work on all the stated
platforms, not just some of them.

FTP basically does not work on iOS (to access all the visible files).
USB does.

Why can't you seem to comprehend that simple fact?

> I'm replyinmg to claims you made. you seem to be suggesting that
> it's ok to lie if it supports your claim.

I've never once made a false claim in my life unless it's something that
was my humble opinion which you can rightly disagree with.

While I don't put IMHO at the end of every sentence, please point out a
single instance of a factual lie in my many thousands of posts in over two
decades of posting on Usenet.

Name just one - but back it up.
(And no, typos or obvious thinkos don't count as Usenet is ad hoc.)

> I'd ask if that is your
> position, but if I did you'd obvioisly answer "no".

I only speak facts.
You'll *never* find me speak a wrong fact simply because I don't do it.
Caveat: I'm human ... so I might make inadvertent mistakes - but if you
call me out on that, I'll be an adult and confront it

What you seem to mis understand is that I act like an adult.
You don't like that it seems.

But you (apparently) not liking me acting like an adult says more about you
than about me.

> No. Ae you going to offer any details on how it's different?

How many times can you mis-comprehend facts, Jasen Betts?
I said many times why.
That you keep missing the answer doesn't mean I didn't answer it.

INHO ... You're not acting like an adult should act, Jason.
Adults can comprehend simple facts.

> I don't know, and am not particularly interested.

Do I need to point out again that your childish retorts are that of a fifth
grader?

*All I ask of you, Jasen Betts, is that you try to act like an adult.*

[nospam]

In article <pnkho4$9e0$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen Holder

<arlen...@nospam.net> wrote:

> We could wax philosophically on how FTP differs from USB.

or we could laugh at how clueless you actually are.

[Arlen Holder]

On 15 Sep 2018 15:31:09 GMT, nospam wrote:

>> Install libimobiledevice driver on Windows. A lot less to install, no
>> need to learn Linux.
>
> even that's not needed.

While nospam is a man-child who makes claims that he never backs up, what's
more interesting is that his entire belief system is completely imaginary!

*The imaginary Apple Apologist belief system has no room for actual facts*

Meanwhile, on the topic of installing libimobile device, by the way, here's
a copy of the tutorial I posted long ago on the Apple newsgroups by way of
example on libimobiledevice drivers.

****************************************************************************
How to read/write access iOS file systems on Ubuntu/Windows over USB cable

Please improve so that all benefit from your efforts.
****************************************************************************
The purpose of this apnote is to test read/write access to non-jailbroken
iOS devices over USB cable using a dual-boot Windows10/Ubuntu18.04 PC.

The goal is read/write access to the iOS device's visible file system
to *both* Windows & Ubuntu, via the Linux file explorer & command line.

Note that the iTunes abomination will *never* be installed on these PCs!

Both Windows and Linux are *native* (i.e., zero additional software is
needed for full read/write access to the entire visible file system of
the iOS device. Everything is on the native operating system!)
============================================================================
Section I: Native Ubuntu 18.04 Desktop
============================================================================
0. Check what's installed natively when the iOS device is NOT connected:
a. Boot to Ubuntu 18.04 Desktop
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ios000.jpg>
b. Ensure ifuse and libimobiledevice-utils do not exist
$ which ifuse
(reports nothing)
$ which ideviceinfo
(reports nothing)
c. Note that libimobiledevice is installed, by default
$ sudo updateb
$ locate libimobiledevice
(reports stuff)

Apparently libimobiledevice is native, but not ifuse, nor are the
libimobiledevice-utils such as idevicepair & icevicesyslog, etc.

$ ifuse
Command 'ifuse' not found, but can be installed with:
sudo apt install ifuse

$ ideviceinfo
Command 'ideviceinfo' not found, but can be installed with:
sudo apt install libimobiledevice-utils
============================================================================
1. Plug in an iOS device either before or after Ubuntu 18.04 has booted:
a. When you plug in the iPad for the first time, the iPad will ask:
"Trust this computer?"
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ios010.jpg>
Note: You won't see this message again after the first time.
Note that when you plug into Windows, you get a different message:
"Allow this device to access photos and videos?"
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ios020.jpg>
b. Notice two new icons show up on the desktop:
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ios030.jpg>
- iPad [a digital SLR icon]
(DCIM, read only, no thumbs)
- Documents on myipad [a monitor & keyboard icon]
(private space of the "good" apps, read/write, no thumbs)
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ios040.jpg>
c. Notice there is no Downloads yet
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ios050.jpg>
d. Notice there are no thumbnails yet
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ios060.jpg>
e. Notice you can only read from the DCIM directory tree.
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ios070.jpg>
f. Notice you can write to the private space of the good apps
(Namely: Adobe Acrobat, Excel, FileExplorer, GarageBand,
iMovie, Keynote, MFExplorer, MinimaList, NewsTapLite, Numbers,
Pages, PowerPoint, QuickSupport, RManager, SMBManager, Topo Reader,
VLC, Voice Recorder, WiFi HD, Word)
<iosxxx>
g. Determine your iOS device 40-hex-character serial number:
$ dmesg|grep SerialNumber:
SerialNumber: 6ee7ab2fa479394be85da7cb4aefc5d8b11b6f82
<iosxxx>
Note:
Rightclick in the VLC directory & select "Open in Terminal".
$ pwd
/run/user/1000/gvfs/afc:hose=<40char>,port=3/org.videolan.vlc-ios
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ios170.jpg>

Note: You can now copy any iOS device file over to Ubuntu or Windows.
Caveat: See addendum on Ubuntu mounting of Windows partitions below.
============================================================================
2. Determine the iOS name of the folders that you want read/write access
to:
a. Put your mouse cursor in "Documents on myipad" & press <Control+L>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ios080.jpg>
b. This reports the true path to the "Documents on myipad" folder:
afc://6ee7ab2fa479394be85da7cb4aefc5d8b11b6f82
afc://<40-hex-character-unique-serial-number>:3/
Note: If you put it in VLC you get
afc://6ee7ab2fa479394be85da7cb4aefc5d8b11b6f82:3/org.videolan.vlc-ios
c. Put your mouse cursor in DCIM and press control L
d. This reports the true path to the "DCIM" folder:
gphoto2://%5Busb%3A001,002%5D/DCIM
Note: If you put it in 101Apple you get
gphoto2://%5Busb%3A001,002%5D/DCIM/101APPLE

Note: You can now copy any iOS device file over to Ubuntu or Windows.
Caveat: See addendum on Ubuntu automounting of Windows partitions.
============================================================================
3. Enable write access to both the DCIM & Downloads folders (among others):
a. Remove the ":3/" and put it in the space that Control L was in.
afc://6ee7ab2fa479394be85da7cb4aefc5d8b11b6f82
b. Notice a *new* Desktop icon shows up, named "myipad".
c. Notice you now have read/writeaccess to DCIM & Downloads (plus
others).
Namely: Books,DCIM,Downloads,iMazing,iTunes_Control,MediaAnalysis,
PhotoData,Photos,PublicStaging,Purchases
d. Notice that the "iPad" mount is still read only (which doesn't
matter).
e. Notice that you have no thumbnails anywhere.

Note: Rightclick in the DCIM directory & select "Open in Terminal".
$ pwd
/run/user/1000/gvfs/gphoto2:hose=%5Busb%3A001%2C002%5D/DCIM

Note: You can now copy any iOS device file over to Ubuntu or Windows.
Caveat: See addendum on Ubuntu mounting of Windows partitions below.
============================================================================
Section II: Adding ifuse & libimobiledevice-info to Ubuntu 18.04 Desktop

NOTE: This is optional! Adding these only adds minor capabilities that
wasn't already in the native operating system commands above.
============================================================================
4. Install the ifuse iOS file system to run in the background on Ubuntu:
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ios100.jpg>
a. Optionally, update and upgrade your system:
$ sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ios090.jpg>
b. Install the ifuse iOS file system on Ubuntu:
$ sudo apt install ifuse
c. Look at the ifuse help
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ios110.jpg>
$ which ifuse
/usr/bin/ifuse
$ ifuse --help
Usage: ifuse MOUNTPOINT [OPTIONS]
Mount directories of an iOS device locally using fuse.
-o === mount options
-u === mount specific device by its 40-digit device UDID
-d === enable libimobiledevice communication debugging
-- root === mount root file system (jailbroken device required)
-- documents APPID === mount 'Documents' folder of identified app
-- container APPID === mount sandbox root of identified app
============================================================================
5. EXAMPLE 1: Mount the entire iOS visible file system on Ubuntu:
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ios120.jpg>
a. Create a mount point directory for your iOS files
$ mkdir -p $HOME/data/iosfs
b. Access the iOS device via $HOME/data/iosfs
$ ifuse $HOME/data/iosfs
c. This immediately puts an "iosfs" icon on the Desktop.
d. Notice you have write access to the iOS Downloads & DCIM (& others).
Namely: Books,DCIM,Downloads,iMazing,iTunes_Control,MediaAnalysis,
PhotoData,Photos,PublicStaging,Purchases
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ios130.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ios140.jpg>
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ios150.jpg>
e. Notice you now have thumbnails.
f. Notice you have all the power of Linux, on your iOS device now.

To unmount:
$ fusermount -u $HOME/data/iosfs
============================================================================
6. EXAMPLE 2: Mount the iOS device by its unique 40-hex-character UDID:
a. Copy the serial number into your buffer
$ dmesg | grep SerialNumber:
b. Mount the iOS device by that serial number UDID
$ mkdir $HOME/data/ipad
$ ifuse $HOME/data/ipad -u 6ee7ab2fa479394be85da7cb4aefc5d8b11b6f82
c. This immediately puts an "iosfs" icon on the Desktop.
d. Notice you have write access to the iOS Downloads & DCIM (& others).
Namely: Books,DCIM,Downloads,iMazing,iTunes_Control,MediaAnalysis,
PhotoData,Photos,PublicStaging,Purchases
e. Notice you now have thumbnails.
f. Notice you have all the power of Linux, on your iOS device now.

To unmount:
$ fusermount -u $HOME/data/ipad
============================================================================
7. EXAMPLE 3: Mount an iOS application's "documents" folder by its APPID:
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ios160.jpg>
$ mkdir $HOME/data/vlc_documents
$ ifuse $HOME/data/vlc_documents --documents org.videolan.vlc-ios

This puts an icon named "vlc_documents" on your desktop, which is
read/write access, with thumbnails, to the iOS VLC documents directory.
<http://img4.imagetitan.com/img.php?image=18_ios180.jpg>

To unmount:
$ fusermount -u $HOME/data/vlc_documents
============================================================================
8. Install libimobiledevice-utils:
$ sudo apt install libimobiledevice-utils
============================================================================
9. EXAMPLE 4:
$ ideviceinfo -d
REPORTS copious information about that connected iOS device.

$ idevicesyslog
REPORTS the system log of the iOS device (extremely verbose output!).
============================================================================
10. Please suggest further useful examples based on your experiences.
============================================================================
Caveat:

If you leave Windows 10 at the default setting of fast startup,
then Ubuntu will mount the entire Windows file system as read only
(apparently because fast startup is a form of hibernation).

To automatically mount the entire Windows filesystem as read/write,
simply turn off fast startup in the Windows 10 settings:

Start > Settings > System > Power & sleep > Related settings
> Additional power settings > Choose what the power button does >
or (depending on your number of buttons)
> Additional power settings > Choose what the power buttons do >
> Change settings that are currently unavailable

Change from:
[x]Turn on fast startup (recommended)
This helps start your PC faster after shutdown. Restart isn't affected.
[x]Sleep (Show in Power menu.)
[_]Hibernate (Show in Power menu.)
[x]Hibernate (Show in Power menu.)
[x]Lock (Show in account picture menu.)

Change to:
[_]Turn on fast startup (recommended)
This helps start your PC faster after shutdown. Restart isn't affected.
[_]Sleep (Show in Power menu.)
[_]Hibernate (Show in Power menu.)
[_]Hibernate (Show in Power menu.)
[_]Lock (Show in account picture menu.)

And then press the "Save changes" button.
============================================================================
============================================================================
sms

[Arlen Holder]

On 15 Sep 2018 15:24:18 GMT, joe wrote:

> Install libimobiledevice driver on Windows. A lot less to install, no
> need to learn Linux.

We have covered libimobiledevice on Windows 10 many times in the past
https://www.libimobiledevice.org/
http://docs.quamotion.mobi/en/latest/imobiledevice/download.html

Where it fell flat every time on full read/write access to the entire
visible file system of iOS over USB on otherwise-native Windows 10.

It's hard to look up Windows 10 threads because Google doesn't archive them
in an easily searched manner, but here's an iphone newsgroup tutorial I
authored on the subject

How to read/write access iOS file systems on Ubuntu/Windows over USB cable

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/IFC52JXBQ1c

While that works fine for Linux, we have entire threads on why that doesn't
work for read & write access to the entire visible file system of the iOS
device on Windows.

Unless you know something nobody else seems to know, you're going to have
to show us that you have installed libimobiledevice on an otherwise native
Windows 10 and that alone provides full read/write access to the entire
visible iOS file system on otherwise-native Windows.

HINT: Installing the iTunes abomination doesn't count, not the least of
which reasons being that Apple themselves says that it doesn't support the
real world (Apple actually says the real world is "not supported").

[Arlen Holder]

On 15 Sep 2018 20:21:58 GMT, nospam wrote:

>> We could wax philosophically on how FTP differs from USB.
>
> or we could laugh at how clueless you actually are.

Notice everyone these two facts:

1. I proposed a simple, free, powerful mechanism that works for everyone.
2. The Apple Apologist nospam proposes exactly zero facts. Zero.

Those are facts.
It's why I can easily prove that the Apple Apologists are different.

*Apple Apologists, like nospam, have a belief system containing 0 facts.*

[Arlen Holder]

On 15 Sep 2018 15:25:41 GMT, Dan Purgert wrote:

> Yeh, I stumbled across your stuff on a.o.l, hence the somewhat "we know
> already!" type response. Although checking the parent postings, perhaps
> the windows groups don't know in general (but then, I would argue it is
> on the poster to remove alt.os.linux from the discussion, as it is not
> [no longer?] relevant to the group).

All I'm trying to do is two adult things, for the good of the people.
1. Disseminate what works for everyone for free on all the platforms
2. Ask if you have something better so that I learn from you

> The standard response of "format and upgrade to Linux" still applies :).
> As for trolls (of which I am not entirely sure nospam is one, or at
> least is /always/ one), welcome to Usenet.

I've been on Usenet for decades.
Very many thousands of threads - almost all adding value.

I can't even count the tutorials I've written - many thousands.
My use model is the FAQ model - not the chitchat model most people use.

I confront trolls in threads I author.
They're cowardly bullies.

If you don't know nospam, you don't know Apple groups.
Over the decades, Apple groups are quite different from Linux groups.

I've covered them in detail in many threads.
Suffice to say I know them well.

Their belief system is a child-like mix of marketing & imagination.

> FTP is a joke, simply because it is FTP. But that's been the case for a
> good long while now.

Agreed.
It's even worse on iOS, sadly.

So anyone who posits FTP as a "solution", doesn't understand that.

> Personally, I like either using my owncloud instance on the phone (via a
> browser), as (S)FTP clients on android seem to be a bit touch and go. I
> didn't bother testing it, as it has the same limitations as the FTP
> client I use (i.e. one file at a time), and I don't have any files that
> surpass 50MB sitting on it.

If we exclude iOS, FTP works ok (IMHO on Android.
The worst part of FTP on Windows is that Window is flaky (IMHO) when you
reconnect frequently using the native Windows File Explorer. I have entire
threads on that but I haven't narrowed down why.

The main workaround, currently, is to use a combination of FileZilla and
winscp, but that's really a topic for the Windows groups so I don't belabor
it here on a.o.l.

> Well, Apple is definitely "you play in our walled garden, or you go
> away".

I fight that attitude but I do agree that Apple clearly says the real world
(aka other systems, like Linux), are "not supported".

As one example, Apple provided zero support when from iOS 7.0.0 to iOS
7.0.1 all hell broke loose with USB connections to Linux (ask me how I
know).

> I haven't used any of their kit since one of the first couple
> generations of iPod ... and that was only because they were the only
> *good* music player at the time, although when SanDisk had their little
> thing that you could plug a Cruzer Micro into, I loved that player.

I solved all those problems with iPods using the last known good version of
SharePod freeware, which still works just fine.

If you can get a hold of the 2.x version, or even the less useful 3.x
version (which required .NET Framework), you will have complete freedom to
plug in any iPod on the planet over USB to any Windows machine on the
planet (.NET Framework needed for the 3.x version) and copy any MP3 file
from any of those ipods to anywhere else.

With that SharePod software, which was an early version of "portable
software", you didn't have to put anything on Windows.

You never needed the iTunes abomination except to initialize the iPod, and
even that one-time requirement per iPod, if you wanted to try, you could
get around with third-party initialization software.

>> I tried SMB, by the say (aka smbclient/samba), but it turns out that if you
>> don't root Android, SMB is basically brain dead on Android too.
>
> SMB is basically braindead everywhere :)

In the past, I had found the smbclient and samba server, along with CAP,
useful to tie together Macs, Windows, and SunOS/Solaris machines.

What's nice about SMB is that it's the native way to talk to Windows, and
it's well honed on Linux. It's Android and iOS that don't work well with
SMB, where on Android you have to jailbreak (effectively) and on iOS, well,
iOS is always brain dead unless you jailbreak.

> Pretty sure iOS can connect to FTP *servers* still (unless apple fubar'd
> that)

That's not the problem as the FTP server is running on the mobile device.
The problem is that Apple doesn't let it access the file system.

> iOS can definitely use http - you just have to have something like an
> owncloud / nextcloud (etc.) instance, rather than "pure" http via curl
> or the like.

That's not the problem as the HTTP server is running on the mobile device.
The problem is that Apple doesn't let it access the file system.

> Benefit of youth, I guess. Kids see "obvious" solutions to things that
> adults tend to be too locked-in thinking wise to notice. But then again,
> the whole usecase is a bit edge / corner, so even there some of the
> "obviousness" is perhaps hindsight on the part of responders.

I don't think most people understand the genius of this solution.
Nobody, for example, on this planet, can propose a better one (IMHO).

Ample proof of that is that the entire thread added zero technical value
over the original post.

I repeat: Not a single subsequent post after the original post, added any
value to the topic. It's all in the original post. Nobody knows more than I
do, unfortunately, and that's sad because i don't know much and I never
said I did.

It's people who *think* they know a lot who waste everyone's time, simply
because none of the respondents added any value whatsoever to the original
post.

That includes everything you and I are saying now.

I welcome improvements - but nobody has them.

> It's obvious that iOS and Windows are both bad in their own right, so
> using both in conjunction is bad^2.

Fact is that mobile devices exist along with desktops existing.
Fact is that data transfer between mobile devices & desktops is needed.

Fact is, that I perform read/write access to their visible file system to
Windows through Linux over USB all the time.

All I was doing in this thread was two things:
1. Letting others have that same power, and,
2. Asking if anyone has a better method.

So far, nobody has ever come up with a better method.
Hence, I leaned nothing from this thread.

But at least others learned to do what I can do.
So some good came of the thread.

> Had the phone been connected to my wireless network with 802.11ac, given
> the same settings (40 MHz channel, 1x1), the PHY rate would've been 200
> mbps (an increase of 33%), with an expected on-paper throughput of up to
> 120 mbps (15 MB/sec) -- or a little more than double the throughput.

This is useful information.
My routers are old as I'm not on ac yet.

> If we were to use our (approximate) 2/3 result (50 mbps is 2/3 of 75),
> we would've transferred that 3.2 GB file at approximately 10 MB/sec (600
> MB/min). Note, that this is of course "napkin math", and again, the real
> world will make a mess of things.

The main goal would be simply to list the realistic speeds of USB versus
WiFi over FTP to any Android/iOS mobile device.

Those are the two most common scenarios.

> Now USB 3.x on the other hand, yeah, that's an order of magnitude
> increase over either of them for a phone (5gbps)

That's an important point!

[Arlen Holder]

On 14 Sep 2018 14:41:40 GMT, Arlen Holder wrote:

> I post this FYI so others know how *easy* it is to *simultaneously* slide
> huge files both ways over USB to *any* iOS, Android, Windows, & Linux
> device!

Moving the ball forward for everyone ...

Following is a suggested improvement to the best known way of sliding files
back and forth from and to any Windows, Linux, iOS, or Android device,
simultaneously, sans any proprietary strings attached.
<http://alt.os.linux.narkive.com/4FydoVr4/a-note-from-the-cross-platform-groups-that-may-interest-linux-users-too>

On 19 Aug 2018 01:24:31 GMT, J.O. Aho wrote:
> Dual booting, ain't that a bit 1980's, even for gamin on microsoft OS
> you can still boot your favourite Linux distribution as host and run a
> virtualised instance of the closed source OS.
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.os.linux/LMQRVNx92-I>

While the common Apple Apologists like nospam will _never_ improve any
process (all Apple Apologists can do is punch buttons that Apple Marketing
told them to use - where Apple Marketing says the real world is "not
supported"), the Linux user "J.O. Aho" recently suggested that possible
alternative method.

I've written tutorials on how to install & use VirtualBox on Windows, so
I'll try that method to see if it improves upon this dual-boot process.

Special thanks go to J.O. Aho for being the only one to suggest
improvements so that everyone benefits from every post.

--
NOTE: You can find all my tutorials on the usenet search engines, e.g.,:
http://alt.comp.os.windows-10.narkive.com/
http://tinyurl.com/alt-comp-os-windows-10
etc.

Use Google to search using the "-site" keyword, e.g.,:
alt.comp.os.windows-10 how to install virtualbox -site pcbanter.net
alt.comp.os.windows-10 how to install virtualbox -site narkive.com
etc.

[Arlen Holder]

On 16 Sep 2018 01:40:12 GMT, Piet wrote:

> And useless for Android. Doesn't 'imobile' say enough?

In a way, what "joe" suggested, makes sense on the surface, since an
apple-compatibile device driver is what gives Linux the ability to treat an
iOS device as a USB device - so I treated joe like an adult in my prior
response.

While the iTunes abomination won't easily install on Linux, there is a
well-known trick to denuding the iTunes abomination on Windows, which is to
install *just* the necessary device drivers, and not the hundreds of
megabytes of functionality-limiting Apple bloatware.

Given that the iTunes abomination is the canonical example of horrendous
bloatware, luckily those paring down tutorials abound on the net.
The unofficial guide to installing iTunes 10 without bloatware
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/the-unofficial-guide-to-installing-itunes-10-without-bloatware/>

Still, to my knowledge, nobody has gotten the idevice drivers to provide
both read and write access to the entire visible file system of the iOS
device, as far as I know (from past discussions on this topic).

Does joe know something the rest of us don't know?

[Diesel]

Arlen Holder <arlen...@nospam.net>
news:pnghb3$jc2$1...@news.mixmin.net Fri, 14 Sep 2018 14:41:40 GMT in

alt.comp.freeware, wrote:

> I post this FYI so others know how *easy* it is to
> *simultaneously* slide huge files both ways over USB to *any* iOS,
> Android, Windows, & Linux device!

I wasn't aware this wasn't common knowledge already?

> No proprietary software or ID logins required (other than native
> basics).

Erm...

> At home, I have Windows 10 desktops with dual-boot Ubuntu 18.04,
> where I can connect *any* Android or iOS device (not just my own)
> and slide huge files back in forth in a single swipe, read and
> write.
>
> *Simultaneously*
> Over four systems!

Yep. However...Depending on OS in use as well as Android version
along with specific changes done by the manufacturer of the Android
device in question, this won't work without 3rd party driver/software
installation. In other words, it's sadly, not a universal experience.

Some Android devices fully support the original MTP protocol and
others do not. When they don't, you can run into problems on older
OSes that aren't aware of changes in the protocol that your Android
device might use. That's when an additional driver and/or software
installation is required.

As I still run XP (it's the only Windows based OS I run outside of a
VM), I run into this issue likely more often than yourself. [g]

> HINT: I can slide across 4 systems, with only 3 devices! (details
> matter)

Yes, using uptodate oses on the majority/all of them, right?

> The test today to the iPad went at 7GB per minute on a decade old
> desktop.

Uhh, not at 7gigs a minute. [g]

> 1. Plug in the iPad or Android device - it automatically mounts.

Yes, because your OS/kernel is new enough to support which ever
Android device and version you're using. It's foolish of you to
assume that Android devices all play equally and that all versions of
Android do as well. They don't.

> Note that on all four devices you have *zero* additional software.
> The only software is what is commonly installed when you install
> the OS. HINT: That means no Orwellian iTunes or AirDrop
> abominations, for example.

In your particular case. That's not the case for me. I have a variety
of Android devices running various versions of Android as well as
various laptops/towers that run various operating systems. They don't
all freely talk to each other simply by connecting via USB. Would be
nice, but, that's differences in OS/Android versions for you; not
even touching on the subject of manufacturer specific alterations to
the particular Android build present on your device.

In other words, friend, it's sadly not universal.

> Note that all four devices have *simultaneous* read/write access.
> They don't even have to be *your* devices (i.e., no Apple or
> Android ID).

I'm confused as to why you thought? they needed to be your devices or
you required a login or something else in the first place. I fully
expect that I can plugin a device that has onboard memory and
(hopefully) directly access it from console/GUI or, if needbe,
install a pesky driver/3rd party app to give me the access I want.
I'm completely okay with the device being treated like an external
hard disk.

I'm not much of an Apple geek, but, I don't remember any of them
requiring me to login to access any of the files on the ipods or
anything when I used to fool with them...

> If you know of a cross-platform method *easier & faster* than just
> plugging in *any* device (it doesn't even have to be yours!) and
> sliding any visible files back and forth simultaneously, then let
> me know!

I've found for me, due to the aforementioned compatibility issues
that a semi universal usb memory stick (that supports a large variety
of formats and types) reader/writer is my best bet, atleast in so far
as accessing sdcards, etc. Not only can I just pull the card out of
any of my devices and mount it as an external drive with full access,
I can do the same with any of the Cameras I have as well. I don't
need to be concerned with using a particular PC that I loaded the
special software on, what version of Android the device is using or
anything else along those lines. I just chat with the sdcard directly
myself.

The obvious drawback is I can't access the internal memory storage
this way. Which is okay, I've got the mxlinux machine (it's a newer
kernel) that can mount my Android devices without any help from me.
:)

I hope you don't take any personal offense to this post, but, it
appeared to me as if you thought you struck gold and were excited to
tell the world about your discovery.



--
To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber
stalking, it's highly recommended you visit here:
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php
===================================================
The nice thing about Windows - it does not just crash; it actually
displays a dialog box and lets you press OK first.

[Diesel]

Arlen Holder <arlen...@nospam.net>
news:pngmol$rlp$1...@news.mixmin.net Fri, 14 Sep 2018 16:14:13 GMT in
alt.comp.freeware, wrote:

> On 14 Sep 2018 08:33:28 GMT, MikeS wrote:
>
>> Congratulations.
>> You just reinvented the wheel
>
> So many morons on Usenet claim to be geniuses that I have to
> wonder what your claim of genius is.

I didn't see them make any?

> a. Do you _already_ do exactly what I said I do?
> (If so, prove it with a screenshot because I don't believe
> you.)

What you described doing is the standard way of doing it, unless you
like using software to do it for you. I've always preferred doing it
in the manner you described when possible. I've been doing it that
way long before Android/Apple specific devices gave a shit though. It
was cameras and mp3 players/usb sticks, etc back then. The same
concept applies though. Drag/drop. :)

> b. You you _already_ know of a _better_ way to do what I said I
> did?

I wrote previously about a universal card reader/writer. It solves
the version issue I described previously, but, obviously cannot give
you access to the devices internal memory.

> (If so, prove it with a screenshot because I don't believe
> you.)

I doubt anyone is concerned whether or not you believe them.. or me.

> You claim to be a genius.
> Prove it.

Where is that claim stated? Do you have the MID?

> Everyone will benefit if you have a *better* method.
> HINT: You don't.

The method you described is a very common method and I'm surprised it
was 'new' to you in the first place. Please see my other post
concerning the limitations you didn't mention, because you haven't
experienced them due to the small amount of hardware/software you
interact with.

--
To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber
stalking, it's highly recommended you visit here:
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php
===================================================

Cat's teach us tolerance....and how to see through walls.

[Jasen Betts]

On 2018-09-16, Arlen Holder <arlen...@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 16 Sep 2018 01:28:51 GMT, Jasen Betts wrote:
>
>> You may have read how to win freinds and influence people, but the
>> tactics therein just make you come across at invasive and pushy.
>
> *All I ask of you, Jasen, is that you try to act like an adult.*
> I only speak facts.

>>>>> In addition, with respect to the FTP-server method, where the FTP
>>>>> server runs on the rather io-limited mobile device (compared to
>>>>> most desktops), in general, you want the server to be on the more
>>>>> powerful less io-limited desktops, if you can work that out.
>>
>> Why are you making that claim?
>
> Do you have any idea how vastly limited the iOS FTP server access is?
> Do you?

I'm guessing that I misunderstood what you meant with some of the terms
you used there, like "powerful" and "io-limited".

> INHO ... You're not acting like an adult should act, Jason.
> Adults can comprehend simple facts.

The english language has a suprising capability for ambiguity.

>> I don't know, and am not particularly interested.
>
> Do I need to point out again that your childish retorts are that of a fifth
> grader?

Dude, I asked you what I thought was a simple question with a 50 to
200 word answer and got a 2000 word essay that was only tangentially
related to what thought I was asking.

--
ت

[Dan Purgert]

Arlen Holder wrote:
> On 15 Sep 2018 15:25:41 GMT, Dan Purgert wrote:

>> [...]

>> FTP is a joke, simply because it is FTP. But that's been the case for a
>> good long while now.
>
> Agreed.
> It's even worse on iOS, sadly.
>
> So anyone who posits FTP as a "solution", doesn't understand that.

I've never seen FTP *not* work on iOS (at least insofar as running a
client on said device). Granted, I *never* run "servers" on my mobile
devices, as I don't trust mobile-device devs to not do something stupid
like "oh, autostart when a new wifi network is detected".

>
>> Personally, I like either using my owncloud instance on the phone (via a
>> browser), as (S)FTP clients on android seem to be a bit touch and go. I
>> didn't bother testing it, as it has the same limitations as the FTP
>> client I use (i.e. one file at a time), and I don't have any files that
>> surpass 50MB sitting on it.
>
> If we exclude iOS, FTP works ok (IMHO on Android.
> The worst part of FTP on Windows is that Window is flaky (IMHO) when you
> reconnect frequently using the native Windows File Explorer.

Commandline on Windows has never been a problem for me.

>
>> Well, Apple is definitely "you play in our walled garden, or you go
>> away".
>
> I fight that attitude but I do agree that Apple clearly says the real world
> (aka other systems, like Linux), are "not supported".

Good luck getting their corporate attitude to change :)

>
>> I haven't used any of their kit since one of the first couple
>> generations of iPod ... and that was only because they were the only
>> *good* music player at the time, although when SanDisk had their little
>> thing that you could plug a Cruzer Micro into, I loved that player.
>
> I solved all those problems with iPods using the last known good version of
> SharePod freeware, which still works just fine.

Or, I just don't purchase devices that need workarounds to work the way
I would like them to. TBH, that's my go-to. :)


>>> [...]

>>> I tried SMB, by the say (aka smbclient/samba), but it turns out that if you
>>> don't root Android, SMB is basically brain dead on Android too.
>>
>> SMB is basically braindead everywhere :)
>
> In the past, I had found the smbclient and samba server, along with CAP,
> useful to tie together Macs, Windows, and SunOS/Solaris machines.
>
> What's nice about SMB is that it's the native way to talk to Windows, and
> it's well honed on Linux. It's Android and iOS that don't work well with
> SMB, where on Android you have to jailbreak (effectively) and on iOS, well,
> iOS is always brain dead unless you jailbreak.

Doesn't make samba braindead though. And with the advent of WSL,
*apparently* windows is slightly less braindead with other options. But
I don't have a win-box laying around to test it with (nor do I care to
have one)

>
>> Pretty sure iOS can connect to FTP *servers* still (unless apple fubar'd
>> that)
>
> That's not the problem as the FTP server is running on the mobile device.
> The problem is that Apple doesn't let it access the file system.

Again, I don't run servers on my mobile devices, so the lack of an FTP
server on iOS is itself a moot point.

>
>> iOS can definitely use http - you just have to have something like an
>> owncloud / nextcloud (etc.) instance, rather than "pure" http via curl
>> or the like.
>
> That's not the problem as the HTTP server is running on the mobile device.
> The problem is that Apple doesn't let it access the file system.

Again, I don't run servers on my mobile devices, so the lack of an HTTP
server on iOS is itself a moot point.

>
>
>> Benefit of youth, I guess. Kids see "obvious" solutions to things that
>> adults tend to be too locked-in thinking wise to notice. But then again,
>> the whole usecase is a bit edge / corner, so even there some of the
>> "obviousness" is perhaps hindsight on the part of responders.
>
> I don't think most people understand the genius of this solution.
> Nobody, for example, on this planet, can propose a better one (IMHO).

It's hardly "genius". It is, perhaps, non-obvious to the "learned
computing well before USB was a thing" crowd; but in my experience,
USB-to-USB is pretty ubiquitous.

An iDevice not needing iTunes is not, but I haven't bought one of those
since I was in high school.

> [...]

> I repeat: Not a single subsequent post after the original post, added any
> value to the topic. It's all in the original post. Nobody knows more than I
> do, unfortunately, and that's sad because i don't know much and I never
> said I did.

Honestly, raw transfer speed is the least of my concerns. All of my
devices run the "Owncloud Client", having a $HOME/owncloud directory (or
relevant directory on non-Linux devices) that is automatically synced
between all of them.

Worst case is that the day's pictures (if there are any) get moved over
locally on the phone, to sync overnight as it's charging. Although, I
also have taken to mild dislike of the phone's client, and tend to just
use the web-ui for that these days.

>
>> It's obvious that iOS and Windows are both bad in their own right, so
>> using both in conjunction is bad^2.
>
> Fact is that mobile devices exist along with desktops existing.
> Fact is that data transfer between mobile devices & desktops is needed.

Fact is, the quoted statement I made is tongue-in-cheek.

> So far, nobody has ever come up with a better method.
> Hence, I leaned nothing from this thread.

In your opinion. Perhaps other people have taken a (silent) look and
have decided that HTTP (via owncloud) or SFTP (via openssh-server on a
linux box ... or maybe WSL) transfers make for the more universally
applicable approach.

I mean, your approach pretty much relies on physical access to your
desktop.

[Dan Purgert]

Dan Purgert wrote:
>
> Doesn't make samba braindead though. And with the advent of WSL,

^^^^^^^^^ should read "not braindead".

[Arlen Holder]

On 16 Sep 2018 22:37:55 GMT, Diesel wrote:

> I wasn't aware this wasn't common knowledge already?

Edify me.
*But first, tell me what step I accidentally omitted in the OP.*
HINT: I'll be glad to explain - my point is this is NOT common knowledge.

Bear in mind I'm trying to *teach* you something you *think* you know.
But your own words prove you don't understand the system.

I'd be glad to learn from you - but you can't heave unsubstantiated FUD.

Especially since you say it's common knowledge.
a. It's NOT common knowledge
b. You don't even know it (even now)

You *think* you understand it - but you clearly do not.
Neither did Jason Betts. Neither did anyone who posted yet.

They all *think* they understand it - but they can't actually *do* it!
I don't say this maliciously - it's simply a fact you proved yourself.

I say it bluntly because you bluntly intimate it's common knowledge, and
yet, you don't understand the inherent beauty of this mechanism yourself.

That you misunderstand it is easily proven by your own words (see below).

> Yep. However...Depending on OS in use as well as Android version
> along with specific changes done by the manufacturer of the Android
> device in question, this won't work without 3rd party driver/software
> installation. In other words, it's sadly, not a universal experience.

What 3rd party drivers are you talking about and on what platform?

This works on *all* native Windows filesystems.
It works with iOS and Android filesystems too.

That's half of the inherent beauty of the system, in fact.

I'd be glad to learn from you - but you can't heave unsubstantiated FUD.

> As I still run XP (it's the only Windows based OS I run outside of a
> VM), I run into this issue likely more often than yourself. [g]

That you bring up Windows XP proves that you don't understand it.
It works on native Windows XP filesystems just fine.

That's half the beauty of the system, in fact, which is that it works with
*everything* without you having to put *anything* on the Windows, iOS, or
Android device.

I'd be glad to learn from you - but you can't heave unsubstantiated FUD.

>> HINT: I can slide across 4 systems, with only 3 devices! (details
>> matter)
> Yes, using uptodate oses on the majority/all of them, right?

Please understand I'm trying to *teach* you something that you *think* you
know - but you clearly do not understand what you think is common knowledge
(because it's not).

That you even ask that question means you didn't understand.
This works with all native Windows filesystems.

Half the beauty of this system is that it works with everything.

I'd be glad to learn from you - but you can't heave unsubstantiated FUD.

> Uhh, not at 7gigs a minute. [g]

*My tests last night with 1.7GB of 400 photos, each 4,287,961 bytes*

1. *Windows filesystem to Android* 18 minutes, 21 seconds
6. *Windows filesystem to iOS* 1 minute, 42 seconds
2. *Android to the Windows filesystem* 2 minutes, 20 seconds
5. *iOS to the Windows filesystem* 1 minute, 55 seconds
4. *iOS to Android* 11 minutes, 49 seconds
3. *Android to iOS* 3 minutes, 5 seconds
Note: The order run was so that screenshots would be easier.

If anyone who *thinks* this is common knowledge has not done all six of
those tests, then they almost certainly don't yet understand the inherent
and utter beauty of this system!

HINT: Those copies were to any iOS directory, including the DCIM directory!
Please think hard about that simple statement above. It's critical.

I'd be glad to learn from you - but you can't heave unsubstantiated FUD.

>> 1. Plug in the iPad or Android device - it automatically mounts.
>
> Yes, because your OS/kernel is new enough to support which ever
> Android device and version you're using. It's foolish of you to
> assume that Android devices all play equally and that all versions of
> Android do as well. They don't.

Why do you think any modern Android phone wouldn't work?
I'd love to learn from you but I've never failed on any Android phone, and
trust me, my equipment is old for the most part. Very old.

I'd be glad to learn from you - but you can't heave unsubstantiated FUD.

>> Note that on all four devices you have *zero* additional software.
>> The only software is what is commonly installed when you install
>> the OS. HINT: That means no Orwellian iTunes or AirDrop
>> abominations, for example.
>
> In your particular case. That's not the case for me. I have a variety
> of Android devices running various versions of Android as well as
> various laptops/towers that run various operating systems.

Why do you bring this up when it works with all Windows filesystems?
In my tests, it works with all iOS and Android devices tested (and mine are
old!). Why do you think it wouldn't work?

I'd be glad to learn from you - but you can't heave unsubstantiated FUD.

> They don't
> all freely talk to each other simply by connecting via USB.

Why not?
I'd be glad to learn from you - but you can't heave unsubstantiated FUD.

> Would be
> nice, but, that's differences in OS/Android versions for you; not
> even touching on the subject of manufacturer specific alterations to
> the particular Android build present on your device.

Why wouldnt' this work with all modern Android devices?
I'd be glad to learn from you - but you can't heave unsubstantiated FUD.

> In other words, friend, it's sadly not universal.

Why not?
I'd be glad to learn from you - but you can't heave unsubstantiated FUD.

>> Note that all four devices have *simultaneous* read/write access.
>> They don't even have to be *your* devices (i.e., no Apple or
>> Android ID).
>
> I'm confused as to why you thought? they needed to be your devices or
> you required a login or something else in the first place.

Hehhehheh ...
You don't seem to be familiar with the Apple Apologist tricks.

Try, for example, to copy *any* MP3 from *any* iPod on the planet, using
the Apple-sanctioned methods that the Apologists spout are so powerful.

Try it.
HINT: I can do it ... but I know the tricks. Most people can't.

What matters greatly to me is to come up with brilliantly crafted solutions
which have close to zero hurdles - where pulling a credit card out of your
pocket is a hurdle - and where being limited to a single AppleID is a
hurdle (or even a family ID) - and where the need for proprietary software
that doesn't work on all platforms is a hurdle, etc.

Every solution I come up with is brilliantly crafted to eliminate hurdles.

HINT: Lest you think this "brilliance" is mine - it is not. All my
solutions are crafted with the help of the Usenet tribal knowledge.

That's where the brilliance of these solutions comes from.
If you can improve on this brilliant solution - I'm all for learning from
you.

But you can't just heave unsubstantiated FUD.

> I fully
> expect that I can plugin a device that has onboard memory and
> (hopefully) directly access it from console/GUI or, if needbe,
> install a pesky driver/3rd party app to give me the access I want.
> I'm completely okay with the device being treated like an external
> hard disk.

No third-party apps needed.
That's half of the brilliance of this system.

> I'm not much of an Apple geek, but, I don't remember any of them
> requiring me to login to access any of the files on the ipods or
> anything when I used to fool with them...

Hehhehheh ... suffice to say that the moment you need an AppleID, you're
restricted to the walled garden.

HINT: Linux is outside the walled garden, and even Windows is outside the
walled garden in some respects.

You *must* be very familiar with Apple restrictions in order to appreciate
the sheer brilliance of this system.

That's one reason why I know Jason Betts was wrong when he intimated that
this system is common knowledge. It's why I know you don't understand this
system - because it's NOT common knowledge to most people.

>> If you know of a cross-platform method *easier & faster* than just
>> plugging in *any* device (it doesn't even have to be yours!) and
>> sliding any visible files back and forth simultaneously, then let
>> me know!
>
> I've found for me, due to the aforementioned compatibility issues
> that a semi universal usb memory stick (that supports a large variety
> of formats and types) reader/writer is my best bet, atleast in so far
> as accessing sdcards, etc.

While I have nothing against USB sticks, you bring up a good point which is
that iOS is severely limited in how it deals directly with USB sticks.

So this inherently beautiful method instantly *solves* that sticky problem!
Thanks for bringing up USB sticks since that's *another* beauty!

> Not only can I just pull the card out of
> any of my devices and mount it as an external drive with full access,
> I can do the same with any of the Cameras I have as well. I don't
> need to be concerned with using a particular PC that I loaded the
> special software on, what version of Android the device is using or
> anything else along those lines. I just chat with the sdcard directly
> myself.

I'm glad you bring up cameras, as the beauty of this system is that it
applies equally well to cameras, even cameras running iOS (which exist
according to Savageduck).

> I hope you don't take any personal offense to this post, but, it
> appeared to me as if you thought you struck gold and were excited to
> tell the world about your discovery.

I don't take personal offense if you're trying to be purposefully helpful.
I think you are trying to be purposefully helpful.

The problem I have is you *think* you understand the system, but your words
prove you do not understand the system.

It irks me that you, and Jason, and others *think* this is common
knowledge, but I just realized when I ran my six tests, that I actually
inadvertently left out a key step - so - anyone who *thinks* this is common
knowledge, doesn't actually even know what step I left out!

So there are two reasons I know that you (and others) who _claim_ this is
common knowledge don't actually understand what they *think* they
understands:

1. You speak of Windows XP, where that doesn't matter one bit, and,
2. You can't tell me the step accidentally left out (Hint - it's for iOS).

The *one* place you (and Jason Betts) can edify me is your sewing of FUD
that this won't work with all Android devices.

I have tested this with about a dozen (mostly ancient) Android devices, all
of which work just fine - but maybe you know something about Android that I
don't know where you can edify me why it wouldn't work on all common
Android devices.

Edify me.
*But first, tell me what step I accidentally omitted in the OP.*
HINT: I'll be glad to explain - my point is this is NOT common knowledge.

[Arlen Holder]

On 17 Sep 2018 13:28:43 GMT, Arlen Holder wrote:

> HINT: Those copies were to any iOS directory, including the DCIM directory!
> Please think hard about that simple statement above. It's critical.

Clarification.

Since the above-quoted statement is half the inherent sheer beauty of this
system, and since the Apple Apologists love to play silly semantic games, I
feel the defensive need to add a single clarifying word to that critical
statement above.

*Those copies work to any _visible_ iOS directory, including DCIM!*

If you don't understand the sheer beauty of that statement, then you likely
don't understand the inherent brilliance of the stated solution.

HINT: Try it first, before you say it's common knowledge.

Admission: I accidentally left out a key step in the OP, which means
*nobody* will be successful - if they merely *think* they understand it.

I'll be happy to explain the step I missed, but if you can't tell me what
step I inadvertently missed, then you really do NOT understand it at all.

[Arlen Holder]

On 17 Sep 2018 06:47:12 GMT, Jasen Betts wrote:

> Dude, I asked you what I thought was a simple question with a 50 to
> 200 word answer and got a 2000 word essay that was only tangentially
> related to what thought I was asking.

I'm sorry. I apologize. Let's drop FTP because it's entirely off topic.

*This thread is about USB. R/W to all four file systems. Simultaneously.*

I guess it irks me that people spent 9/10ths of this thread on the wholly
unrelated FTP issue, and the other 1/10th they wasted because they *think*
they understand this system, when I can easily tell that they don't - so
it's bothersome to me that 100% of this thread didn't move the ball
forward.

I would like to move our tribal knowledge forward - if we can.
*Can we possibly improve on this brilliant process - or not?*

I love the inherent brilliance of this system, which, by the way, I didn't
come up with on my own - I asked on these very newsgroups - for years - and
added a bit of secret sauce that I found by deep searching to solve the iOS
problems (which are always the stumbling block).
a. Linux is almost never the impediment
b. Android is rarely, if ever, the impediment
c. Windows has impediments, but they can almost always be worked around
d. It's iOS that is almost always the problem to resolve

The brilliance of this system is that it works for all 4 filesystems!

The secret sauce is that this works equally well with iOS as it does with
the better behaved file systems.

In fact, I had *forgotten* a component of that secret sauce, which I had to
look up when I ran the six tests last night (which were different than the
original single test in the OP).
1. Windows filesystem to Android 18 minutes, 21 seconds
6. Windows filesystem to iOS 1 minute, 42 seconds (this required a secret)
2. Android to the Windows filesystem* 2 minutes, 20 seconds
5. iOS to the Windows filesystem* 1 minute, 55 seconds
4. iOS to Android 11 minutes, 49 seconds
3. Android to iOS 3 minutes, 5 seconds (this required the secret)

While this system works brilliantly in that *nothing* needs to be added to
the Windows, Linux, iOS, or Android file systems, I didn't run exhaustive
tests on all Android devices.

Hence, Diesel brings up a "possibly" good point that this system "might
not" work with all Android devices.

But I don't understand yet any actual *facts* which justify that FUD.
Maybe you can help on those facts?

Why wouldn't Ubuntu 18.04 be able to access the visible file system of
*all* Android devices?
--
Note: I've only tested from Android 4.3 up to Android 7.0, but out of about
a dozen devices, none failed (and all are USB configured to MTP mode).

[Arlen Holder]

On 16 Sep 2018 22:41:14 GMT, Diesel wrote:

> What you described doing is the standard way of doing it, unless you
> like using software to do it for you.

I respectfully disagree that this is the "standard way" of using USB.

This brilliant idea is *NOT* the standard method of using USB.

In fact, almost *nobody* knows this methnod, which I can tell easily.
For example, nobody can tell us what step I accidentally missed.

HINT: You can't write to the iOS visible file system sans this step!
Also, you keep talking about Windows XP, where that's meaningless.

All Windows file systems work with this method (that's part of the beauty).
Just as all Android & iOS filesystems work (that's the other beauty).

Without adding *anything* to any of the file systems!

That's the *brilliance* of this system!
1. Simple.
2. Powerful.
3. Cross platform (always remember this is the *hardest* thing to do!)

In fact, the brilliance of this system is it works better than anything
that people are using today.

Having said that almost nobody *understands* this method, once you
understand it, we can, together, *improve* it for everyone to benefit.

[Carlos E. R.]

Exactly my thoughts.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[Arlen Holder]

On 17 Sep 2018 11:35:59 GMT, Dan Purgert wrote:

> I've never seen FTP *not* work on iOS (at least insofar as running a
> client on said device).

The problem with FTP (or any server) on iOS isn't that it won't run.
It's that it won't access the "visible file system".

I had run every free server-related app on the App Store long ago.
And I had to finally give up.

Here's a screenshot taken just now of the "best" of the WiFi xfer apps:
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=8827795ftponios.jpg>

All my apps are ordered in best to worst order, so the best is "WiFi HD".
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=1568699wifihdtest.jpg>

Notice it has an HTTP server (it labels that as WiFi), an FTP server (it is
virtually useless), a USB button (requires iTunes on the host), etc.

As with almost everything on iOS, it looks like it would be functional, but
it's severely constrained in that it won't see (under any condition) the
same "visible file system" that Ubuntu 18.04 will see when you connect by
USB.

> Granted, I *never* run "servers" on my mobile
> devices, as I don't trust mobile-device devs to not do something stupid
> like "oh, autostart when a new wifi network is detected".

Every server app I've tried on iOS is severely constrained to only see, at
best, its own and a couple other apps' file storage areas (e.g., VLC).

>> If we exclude iOS, FTP works ok (IMHO on Android.
>> The worst part of FTP on Windows is that Window is flaky (IMHO) when you
>> reconnect frequently using the native Windows File Explorer.
>
> Commandline on Windows has never been a problem for me.

If we exclude iOS from our cross-platform solution, then everything is
easy. The hard part is always coming up with a solution that is not only
available to everyone (i.e., it's free), but that it works on iOS as well
as it does with Android, Linux, and Windows.

> Good luck getting their corporate attitude to change :)

I've had fantastic success with defeating the walled garden.

My first success was using SharePod freeware (before they went over to the
dark side and required iTunes), which allowed me to plug in any iPod from
anywhere on the planet to any Windows desktop anywhere on the planet, and
copy MP3 files anywhere anyway I wanted.

Now that solution no longer exists - but the old (version 2.x and 3.x)
versions are still on my iPods and work great as "portable apps" (where the
3.x version requires Net Framework but not the 2.x versions).

I also have had fantastic success defeating the walled garden using the
brilliant method proposed here, which I wrote about many times, and which
was honed by the help of everyone.

What I find kind of hilarious is that people *think* they understand this
method, and they *think* it's obvious, but it's not.

Most who think it's obvious (e.g., diesel) didn't even realize Windows is
never booted (he kept talking about WinXP compatibility). Now maybe Ubuntu
can't read WinXP filesystems, but I doubt it. Don't you?

Are there any (common typical normal) Windows filesystems that Ubuntu
doesn't automatically read?

NOTE: I am well aware, as is Paul, of the "special files" in the Windows
System directory which have some kind of NTFS-extensions which even Linux
can't read - but they're corner cases.

> Or, I just don't purchase devices that need workarounds to work the way
> I would like them to. TBH, that's my go-to. :)

It's cheating to just give up! :)

I never lose. I've been asking for help on a.o.l for decades (Marek, God
bless him for example, wrote most of my vpn scripts), where I've never had
to just give up.

There is always a solution. As one example, the solution of making the
"visible file system" on iOS writeable is *not obvious*.

I repeat. It's not obvious how to make the iOS file system read/write.
In fact, I had *forgotten* about that trick when I started the other
thread, which wrote to VLC's storage space, so it didn't need the trick.

But when I ran this speed test, I realized that I had forgotten the trick
to open up the iOS file system for writing - which - since nobody mentioned
it even though I asked the unbelievers, I know everyone is bullshitting me
when they say they do it all the time.

If they don't know that trick, they can't do it.
They're just bullshitting me (like everyone loves to do).

I don't bullshit.
I do what I say I do.

And one thing I don't do, is give up (until I have to).

> Doesn't make samba braindead though. And with the advent of WSL,
> *apparently* windows is slightly less braindead with other options. But
> I don't have a win-box laying around to test it with (nor do I care to
> have one)

I *love* Samba. As I noted, years ago, on Solaris/SunOS hardware, I set up
a company-wide system of "shared folders" so that everyone on the Mac
(columbia appletalk protocol, or just cap) could share files with those on
the PC (SMB) and on the UNIX workstations (Sun mostly).

That's when I ran into data forks and resource forks. Oh what great
memories you bring back! :)

I don't ever plan on being defeated - but that's why I ask for help a lot.

As for the Windows Subsystem for Linux, I'm not enamored by it, but there
is always Docker (which is different, I know), and VMs (again, different)
and Cygwin (different) and GNU coreutils
<http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages/coreutils.htm>
(which I think it was Paul who turned me on to that last one).

> Again, I don't run servers on my mobile devices, so the lack of an FTP
> server on iOS is itself a moot point.

Since almost everyone has a mobile device, I have to assume yours is
Android. The naysayers mentioned that MTP might not be compatible with
Ubuntu over USB on all versions of Android.

Setting up handfuls of Android devices on MTP has never been a problem for
me with this system, but I don't run exhaustive tests. Do you see any
reason why MTP wouldn't work just fine on most Android devices with Ubuntu
over USB?

> Again, I don't run servers on my mobile devices, so the lack of an HTTP
> server on iOS is itself a moot point.

There are more HTTP servers on iOS than FTP servers.
The problem are the same (they can't access the visible file system).

> It's hardly "genius". It is, perhaps, non-obvious to the "learned
> computing well before USB was a thing" crowd; but in my experience,
> USB-to-USB is pretty ubiquitous.

Actually, I've been in this cross-platform "business" for a long while, and
it *is* genius.

To be clear, I'm not a genius (I'm not haughty) as none of this is "my
idea", as it's gleaned from pieces all over the world and from this and
other newsgroups (mostly android, iOS, and Windows).

If you haven't tried to solve the problem, you'll never realize the sheer
brilliance of this idea.

In fact, I think anyone who doesn't think it's brilliant, doesn't
understand it (e.g., how do you write to iOS file systems?). By accident, I
missed that step since the original post didn't need to write to any
arbitrary visible area on iOS (it went into VLC) but the speed test did
need to write to the Photos area (or any other area).

*NOBODY can tell me when I challenged them how I did that!*

They actually don't know how.
They were bullshitting me. Every single one of them.

So rest assured, I'm not brilliant, but when people tell me that this
system is "obvious", I know they're full of shit - because it's not.

Most who tell me it's obvious completely misunderstand it, as Diesel did,
when he kept asking about Windows compatibility (which indicates he doesn't
even comprehend that Windows doesn't play a role, even though all the files
are on a Windows filesystem).

So most people who tell me it's obvious are just proving they don't
understand it and more importantly, that they've never once even done it.

Because even when I do it, I have to dig up the tricks to get the iOS file
system to open up a bit.

> An iDevice not needing iTunes is not, but I haven't bought one of those
> since I was in high school.

Rest assured, I never use the iTunes abomination.

Even if it wasn't the canonical example of Orwellian restricted bloatware,
it's not cross platform (and no, WINE doesn't count).

> Honestly, raw transfer speed is the least of my concerns. All of my
> devices run the "Owncloud Client", having a $HOME/owncloud directory (or
> relevant directory on non-Linux devices) that is automatically synced
> between all of them.

I agree with you that raw transfer speeds at home aren't generally an
issue, where I use FTP servers all the time on mobile devices over the WiFI
network.

Having a personal cloud directory is a good solution - and - in fact - it
almost certainly rivals the solution I propose - other than the one I
propose requires *zero* software not already on the devices.

Of course, the Windows users could rightly claim that Ubuntu is "software"
that wasn't originally on the device - so my claim is that the system is a
dual-boot system.

Some day will set up a personal cloud - but I haven't done that yet.

In the end, a personal cloud might be more elegant, but you *still* have
the problem of writing to the iOS mobile device (e.g., to download movies).

> In your opinion. Perhaps other people have taken a (silent) look and
> have decided that HTTP (via owncloud) or SFTP (via openssh-server on a
> linux box ... or maybe WSL) transfers make for the more universally
> applicable approach.

How can any solution be universal when FTP on iOS can't access the visible
file system?

> I mean, your approach pretty much relies on physical access to your
> desktop.

Rest assured I used FTP when wires aren't apropos.
But then, I'm limited because FTP can't access the iOS visible file system.

The main open questions are:
a. Does Ubuntu recognize all common Windows filesystems (I think it does)
b. Does MTP work with most recent Android devices (my tests all work fine)
c. Does anyone have a better USB solution (I have never seen it proposed)

[Arlen Holder]

On 18 Sep 2018 06:42:20 GMT, Carlos E. R. wrote:

>> The method you described is a very common method and I'm surprised it
>> was 'new' to you in the first place. Please see my other post
>> concerning the limitations you didn't mention, because you haven't
>> experienced them due to the small amount of hardware/software you
>> interact with.
>
> Exactly my thoughts.

Carlos, I don't think you understand the system.

But, I'll give you a chance to prove you understand it.

Answer these two questions, one which is easy, the other almost as easy:
(And yet, you'll fail.)

Easy:
1. Why does this work with *all* versions of Windows, iOS, & Android?

Almost as easy:
2. What step did I miss in the OP to write to the iOS DCIM directory?

HINT: If you can't answer these two easy questions, you don't understand
the system described.

The reason I know you don't understand, is that almost nobody knows these
tricks. You don't.

If you did ... you'd be able to answer those two easy questions.
And yet, you can't.

I only speak facts.

[nospam]

In article <pnr84b$28c$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen Holder

<arlen...@nospam.net> wrote:

> 2. What step did I miss

many.

[Frank Slootweg]

Arlen Holder <arlen...@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 18 Sep 2018 06:42:20 GMT, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
> >> The method you described is a very common method and I'm surprised it
> >> was 'new' to you in the first place. Please see my other post
> >> concerning the limitations you didn't mention, because you haven't
> >> experienced them due to the small amount of hardware/software you
> >> interact with.
> >
> > Exactly my thoughts.
>
> Carlos, I don't think you understand the system.
>
> But, I'll give you a chance to prove you understand it.
>
> Answer these two questions, one which is easy, the other almost as easy:
> (And yet, you'll fail.)
>
> Easy:
> 1. Why does this work with *all* versions of Windows, iOS, & Android?
>
> Almost as easy:
> 2. What step did I miss in the OP to write to the iOS DCIM directory?

There are no 'steps' in your OP, only three rather meaningless
screenshots.

> HINT: If you can't answer these two easy questions, you don't understand
> the system described.

There is no "system", let alone any "beauty" or "brilliance".

In (currently) 68 posts, you have given zero details about your
beautiful and brilliant 'system'. So it's time you start delivering
instead of spouting even more meaningless grandstanding drivel.

[Dan Purgert]

Arlen Holder wrote:
> On 17 Sep 2018 11:35:59 GMT, Dan Purgert wrote:
>
>> I've never seen FTP *not* work on iOS (at least insofar as running a
>> client on said device).
>
> The problem with FTP (or any server) on iOS isn't that it won't run.
> It's that it won't access the "visible file system".

Oh, you're doing it backwards. Stop trying to run the *server* on your
phone.

> Are there any (common typical normal) Windows filesystems that Ubuntu
> doesn't automatically read?

NTFS is the only "typically normal" Windows filesystem that I'm aware
of (as in ,I'm not sure Windows defaults to using anything else post
WinXP -- maybe exFAT these days?). Both can (IIRC) be normally read
without trouble; writing to them is another matter entirely.

>
>> Or, I just don't purchase devices that need workarounds to work the way
>> I would like them to. TBH, that's my go-to. :)
>
> It's cheating to just give up! :)

It's hardly "giving up" to simply live by "those cunts aren't getting my
hard-earned dollars."

>> Again, I don't run servers on my mobile devices, so the lack of an FTP
>> server on iOS is itself a moot point.
>
> Since almost everyone has a mobile device, I have to assume yours is
> Android. The naysayers mentioned that MTP might not be compatible with
> Ubuntu over USB on all versions of Android.

No idea. MTP has nothing to do with "I don't run servers on my mobiles."

> [...]

> In the end, a personal cloud might be more elegant, but you *still* have
> the problem of writing to the iOS mobile device (e.g., to download
> movies).

No, I dont. I simply don't give Apple my money.

>
>> In your opinion. Perhaps other people have taken a (silent) look and
>> have decided that HTTP (via owncloud) or SFTP (via openssh-server on a
>> linux box ... or maybe WSL) transfers make for the more universally
>> applicable approach.
>
> How can any solution be universal when FTP on iOS can't access the visible
> file system?

Don't run the server on the phone. User selects whatever files to send.
Or not, Apple's never getting my money, so the shortcomings of their
platform don't matter.

[Arlen Holder]

On 18 Sep 2018 09:31:42 GMT, nospam wrote:

>> 2. What step did I miss
>
> many.

Every fifth grader in this newsgroup will think that retort funny.

My main point to the people like Carlos who intimate this method is common
knowledge, is that they didn't understand anything in the original post.

In addition, for those who 'claim' they did it, they didn't.
I know that because I skipped a step that I realized I skipped when I ran
the speed test to a *different* directory than to the VLC private space.

If someone says this method is common knowledge, then they would know what
step I skipped.

I posit not a single person on this newsgroup knows that step.
And they can't do the job without it (not to iOS they can't).

Hence, this method is not common knowledge.
It's brilliant but not common knowledge.

NOTE: I don't say I'm brilliant - I say the method is brilliant - which I
have to point out because the fifth graders in this newsgroup love when I
say that I'm only average in intelligence - it make them feel good.

[Arlen Holder]

Here are some screenshots proving this method does what almost everyone
fails to comprehend, which is it WRITES to the iOS filesystem in any
directory in the visible area possible.

If you don't know the trick to doing that, then you're just bullshitting us
that you think this solution is "obvious".

Unfortunately, I kind of gave up on editing the dozens of screenshots
because Windows just won't load them in the order I click them which makes
editing a large number of files in series a bitch.
Why does a digital photo editor on Windows order a numbered series of incoming files capriciously?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.photo.digital/jlNvYuH8bmQ>

Here is an edited session of just the Android to iOS copy, where everyone
who 'says" it's obvious, is bullshitting us, because it's not obvious the
trick to write to any desired directory in the iOS visible file system.

Plug in any number of iOS & Android devices to your desktop:
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=9261136speedt001.jpg>

On Windows I created 400 copies of a test file using Irfanview:
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=6748333speedt002.jpg>

Each of the 400 files was 4,188KB (1.7GB in toto):
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=3783685speedt003.jpg>

The Android and iOS file systems easily mount on the desktop:
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=6176902speedt004.jpg>

The trick that nobody knows is how to WRITE to the iOS filesystem!
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=7155870speedt005.jpg>

Once you know the trick, you just create any folder where you want:
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2335527speedt006.jpg>

In this case, I created a folder in the normally read-only DCIM folder:
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=8602708speedt007.jpg>

In one fell swoop, I used the desktop to copy files from Android to iOS:
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=9242923speedt008.jpg>

I could just as well have copied the other way around:
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2204403speedt009.jpg>

Or, from either Android and iOS to or from the Windows filesystem:
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=3283618speedt010.jpg>

That's the sheer beauty and elegance of this brilliant solution:
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=6181611speedt011.jpg>

Moving the 400 files from Android to iOS took 3 minutes 5 seconds:
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=7049277speedt012.jpg>

If I did the math right, moving the files using Ubuntu 18.04 from the
Android 7 LG Stylo 3 Plus to the iOS 11.2.6 2017 iPad 9.7-inch went at the
rate of about 9.4 megabits per second or about a half gigabyte per minute.

I don't know what's "possible" but that's what I got.

Note that I could just as well have moved the files from one area of iOS to
another, or from any area of Android or Windows or Linux to another, as I
can manage the entire visible file system on all four devices
simultaneously without ANY software on any of the operating systems other
than what comes with the operating system.

Anyone who says this brilliant system is "obvious" is a liar, IMHO, since I
haven't mentioned the step that allows full write access to iOS (and no,
it's not jailbreaking).

[Arlen Holder]

On 18 Sep 2018 12:35:57 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> There is no "system", let alone any "beauty" or "brilliance".

*The Dunning-Kruger self-assessment affect fits Frank Slootweg well.*

I'm not saying this as a taunt. I'm just stating an obvious fact.
You deprecate it, but you yourself can't even do it (you don't know how).

You have no clue how to do it, and yet, you decry its brilliance.

That's childish of you, Frank Slootweg.
Childish.

The beauty in the method is that it works (even on iOS).

You can manage the entire visible file system from your native desktop file
explorer, whether that be iOS, Android, Linux, or Windows' filesystem.

For Android, Linux, and Windows, that's not a big deal - but the moment you
add iOS to the mix - being able to manage anything you want in the visible
file system of iOS (read and write!) is not a small accomplishment.

In fact, Frank Slootweg ... I know you don't even know how.
That makes you stupid Frank ... because you say it's not brilliant, nor
even beautiful - and yet - you can't even figure out how it works.

That's how I know you prove you're _stupid_ every time you post, Frank.

I think you've posted only once in your life, not proving you're stupid.
(It's when you posted the URL for a certain archival site.)

The fact I know it's brilliant, is that there isn't a *single* person on
this newsgroup who knows how to do it - other than me.

Simple test for you, Frank Slootweg (a well-known Android troll):
a. Connect any iOS device & any Android device via USB
b. Slide files from Android DCIM to iOS DCIM

HINT: Try it. You will fail until I tell you the secret.

I only speak facts.

Frank Slootweg is so _stupid_ that he declares this method neither
brilliant nor beautiful, and yet, he doesn't even comprehend it.

While that's in character for stupid people like Frank Slootweg always
proves himself to be, I think it's kind of humorous too.

*The Dunning-Kruger self-assessment affect fits Frank Slootweg well.*

[Arlen Holder]

On 19 Sep 2018 05:15:18 GMT, Arlen Holder wrote:

> *The Dunning-Kruger self-assessment affect fits Frank Slootweg well.*

I think it's kind of funny I mis-spelled 'effect' though... :)

[Frank Slootweg]

comp.mobile.android Arlen Holder <arlen...@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 18 Sep 2018 12:35:57 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>
> > There is no "system", let alone any "beauty" or "brilliance".
>
> *The Dunning-Kruger self-assessment affect fits Frank Slootweg well.*

[More of the same crap deleted.]

[Rewind/repeat:]

> > In (currently) 68 posts, you have given zero details about your
> > beautiful and brilliant 'system'. So it's time you start delivering
> > instead of spouting even more meaningless grandstanding drivel.

Clearly you can't deliver, otherwise you would have done so, instead
of shooting the messenger, belittling, offending and otherwise acting
like complete and utter jerk.

So almighty one, *show* - i.e. *prove* your 'brilliance' or STFU.

Until then, EOD.

[Diesel]

Arlen Holder <arlen...@nospam.net>
news:pnpqen$keq$1...@news.mixmin.net Tue, 18 Sep 2018 03:12:23 GMT in

alt.comp.freeware, wrote:

> On 16 Sep 2018 22:41:14 GMT, Diesel wrote:
>
>> What you described doing is the standard way of doing it, unless
>> you like using software to do it for you.
>
> I respectfully disagree that this is the "standard way" of using
> USB.

Arlen, I was specifically responding to your original comment about
moving files across various devices without having to use
specialized software (itunes,airdrop,etc). It is infact, a well
known method of doing it.

I wasn't claiming that using a USB interface to move data between
your Android/ios/mp3 player/camera,etc was a standard way of using
USB, although I personally think it is; since USB was never intended
just to be a replacement for ps/2 ports in the first place. If you
thought that was the original gameplan, you're mistaken.

Here are some urls that describe the process you thought was 'new';
you'll notice the article dates are years prior to your usenet post
with your reinvention of the wheel discovery and announcement.

http://www.stevesandroidguide.com/transfer-files-usb/
https://support.google.com/android/answer/9064445?hl=en
http://osxdaily.com/2017/01/13/how-transfer-photos-iphone-windows-10-pc/

> This brilliant idea is *NOT* the standard method of using USB.

Again, you're trying to twist my words around. I previously wrote
that what you wrote about moving files around between your windows
computer, android and ios devices is a standard, AND WELL KNOWN,
method of doing it. And, it is.

> In fact, almost *nobody* knows this methnod, which I can tell
> easily.

You give yourself far too much undeserved credit...

http://www.stevesandroidguide.com/transfer-files-usb/
https://support.google.com/android/answer/9064445?hl=en
http://osxdaily.com/2017/01/13/how-transfer-photos-iphone-windows-10-pc/

> HINT: You can't write to the iOS visible file system sans this
> step! Also, you keep talking about Windows XP, where that's
> meaningless.

XP isn't meaningless. Your original post claimed that your 'new
discovery' worked with Any version of Android, Windows and IOS
devices using just what comes with the OS.

> All Windows file systems work with this method (that's part of the
> beauty). Just as all Android & iOS filesystems work (that's the
> other beauty).

Your claim again. :) Except that for reasons I've already stated and
see no point in repeating, it's not accurate.

> In fact, the brilliance of this system is it works better than
> anything that people are using today.

ROFL. People have known about and been using it for years prior to
your usenet post describing it. :)

> Having said that almost nobody *understands* this method, once you
> understand it, we can, together, *improve* it for everyone to
> benefit.

The urls:

http://www.stevesandroidguide.com/transfer-files-usb/
https://support.google.com/android/answer/9064445?hl=en
http://osxdaily.com/2017/01/13/how-transfer-photos-iphone-windows-10-pc/

Cover it well enough. No need for anyone to rely on any of us for
more.

--
To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber
stalking, it's highly recommended you visit here:
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php
===================================================

What do macrobiotic cats eat? Brown mice

[Arlen H. Holder]

On Wed, 19 Sep 2018 20:29:42 -0000 (UTC), Diesel wrote:

> Arlen, I was specifically responding to your original comment about
> moving files across various devices without having to use
> specialized software (itunes,airdrop,etc). It is infact, a well
> known method of doing it.

I appreciate that you're trying to prove the method is "obvious", which, if
it were obvious, would be trivial to prove (becuase it's USB); but the fact
is that I know something you don't know. Nobody knows it.

Q: What do I know that nobody else knows?
A: How to view & write to the entire visible file system of iOS

How to do that, is NOT obvious (except to me).
*The three hilarious articles you cited PROVE you don't understand.*

I agree that USB is well known for moving files, as is the use of
FTP/HTTP/SMB servers over WiFi.

The only two "tricks" of this method that are not obvious, are:
a. We use Linux to access iOS (because it does it best)
b. We use a trick that allows write access to iOS

Those two tricks are the _only_ non-obvious part of this system.
Yet, without those two tricks, you have no real access to iOS.

You can't design a system to only handle the easy stuff.
A cross platform solution has to work on the hard stuff too.

> I wasn't claiming that using a USB interface to move data between
> your Android/ios/mp3 player/camera,etc was a standard way of using
> USB, although I personally think it is; since USB was never intended
> just to be a replacement for ps/2 ports in the first place. If you
> thought that was the original gameplan, you're mistaken.

The only thing that irks me when people say this is "obvious", is that they
can't do it themselves, so it's not so obvious. If people didn't claim
bullshit, then I wouldn't be irked about their bullshit.

The use of USB is obvious, for sure.

But remember, if that is _all_ you do, you can't do two things:
a. You can't write to the entire visible iOS filesystem
b. You can't even see the entire visible iOS filesystem

The beauty of this method is it solves *cross platform* issues.
Everything else is already obvious.

But the blind don't see the beauty of the non obvious part.

> Here are some urls that describe the process you thought was 'new';
> you'll notice the article dates are years prior to your usenet post
> with your reinvention of the wheel discovery and announcement.

First off, without reading those URLs, I already know they don't cover what
I covered - since NOBODY covers it (because it's not obvious).

The trick is to see anywhere on the visible iOS file system, and to WRITE
anywhere on the iOS visible file system.

That's what's hard.

I am responding as I read, but I can tell you we know more than anything
that will ever be in an article - simply because our method is NOT obvious.

> http://www.stevesandroidguide.com/transfer-files-usb/

How to Transfer Files From Android to PC Using USB Cable
One down.

That says absolutely *nothing* about seeing & writing to iOS.
Nothing.

> https://support.google.com/android/answer/9064445?hl=en
Transfer files between your computer & Android device
Two down.

Where is iOS?

> http://osxdaily.com/2017/01/13/how-transfer-photos-iphone-windows-10-pc/
How to Transfer Photos from iPhone to Windows 10 PC
Three down.

That is a hilarious article, in that the fact you (and others) *think* that
article discusses *anything* I'm talking about, is why I know you fail to
comprehend the beauty of this system.

HINT: Where does that article discuss WRITING to any spot on the visible
file system of iOS?

HINT: It doesn't cover ANYTHING I've covered. Nothing. Zip. Nada.

Worse ... how does that method, which uses the iTunes abomination, work
with Linux? And with Android?

End result: That article is a joke - but the problem is that you don't
recognize WHY it's a joke.

That's because the "obvious" naysayers fail to comprehend two things:
a. How do you *see* the entire visible file system of iOS?
b. How do you *write* to that entire visible file system of iOS?

HINT: Just reading photos is a joke - especially since they use the iTunes
abomination to do it (which isn't needed and they don't even realize that).

Any solution that uses the iTunes abomination, is,
a. Unnecessary (you don't need iTunes)
b. Restricted (it only does what Apple wants it to do)
c. Limited (it doesn't work in the real world, e.g., Linux)

>> This brilliant idea is *NOT* the standard method of using USB.
>
> Again, you're trying to twist my words around. I previously wrote
> that what you wrote about moving files around between your windows
> computer, android and ios devices is a standard, AND WELL KNOWN,
> method of doing it. And, it is.

I appreciate that you're trying to prove that USB is obvious, but I'm at a
way more powerful level than you are since I can do two things that are not
obvious:
1. I can see the entire visible file system of iOS over USB, and,
2. I can *write* to that entire visible file system of iOS over USB.

If you can show me a solution that does that, at the same time that the
same solution works for all other platforms just as well, and, at the same
time requires zero software - then you'll have proved your point.

I can *easily* prove that it's NOT obvious.

HINT: Try to find a single article on the entire Internet that shows how to
do #1 and #2 above.

Just one.

>> In fact, almost *nobody* knows this methnod, which I can tell
>> easily.
>
> You give yourself far too much undeserved credit...

Since you're trying to be an adult, I will state that it's hard for me to
respond to that childish comment because (a) you're the one who doesn't
understand, and (b) I never said I was brilliant.

I said the *method* is brilliant.
Not me.

I just figured it out with the help of others.

Rather than tell me I'm not brilliant (which I already know), I could say
that you're stupid ... which I won't because you're trying to act like an
adult.

But I will say that if you can't understand that the brilliant method
a. *sees* the entire visible iOS file system, and,
b. *writes* to that entire visible iOS file system
Then I have to keep repeating that you fail to *comprehend*.

Since it's clear you fail to comprehend, it's premature for you to say I
give myself too much credit.

Do you understand my adult point?

Let's put it bluntly:
a. You don't understand, so you call me stupid (in effect).
b. Yet, I understand *everything* you said
c. In fact, you've never once told me something I don't already know.

There's *nothing* you've said (or anyone else in this thread) that I didn't
know years ago.

Yet, I am telling you somehing that you _still_ don't comprehend.
Nobody does.

What that means is only two things:
a. I'm not explaining it well (but Jesus, how many times do I have to
explain that I'm WRITING to any part of iOS that I want to!!!!!!).
b. I'm dealing with stupid people who can't comprehend the above sentence
Pick one.

> XP isn't meaningless. Your original post claimed that your 'new
> discovery' worked with Any version of Android, Windows and IOS
> devices using just what comes with the OS.

What are you talking about?
Did you purchase too many excess arguments this week?

If you don't understand why this system works with *any* Windows file
system, then how can I make you understand what is obvious if you simply
understood how this brilliant system works?

Remember, nobody in this entire thread said anything that I didn't already
know years ago ... and yet ... you bring up XP ... which means YOU don't
understand ... not me. You.

YOU don't understand why XP is meaningless since this brilliant system
works with *all* Windows filessystems.

> Your claim again. :) Except that for reasons I've already stated and
> see no point in repeating, it's not accurate.

Diesel,
The fact you don't evne understnad the system, is obvious.
The fact that you think XP matgters, means you don't undresand.

After those two facts are stated, how can you possibly tell me my
statements are "inaccurate"?

What you're doing is NOT understanding, and then claiming that your
misunderstanding means I'm not accurate.

It's preposterous how your mind actually works.

It's like you're colorblind, so you insist that stop signs are not red.

You don't realize everything you say is coming from your ignorance.
There's NOTHING you've said that I don't understand.
There's PLENTY I've said, that you clearly don't understand.

It's premature for you to tell me I'm inaccurate, when it's obvious you
don't understand anything I've told you.

The three hilarious articles you cited PROVE you don't understand.

> ROFL. People have known about and been using it for years prior to
> your usenet post describing it. :)

You have to pardon me for giggling.
Remember, it's YOU who don't understand a thing I'm telling you.
I understand EVERYTHING you can say (because it's nothing new).

So please refrain from rolling on the floor with laughter.
I'm not rolling of the floor with laughter with you.

I'm just shaking my head, thinking the Dunning-Kruger thing is true, that
people who can't comprehend, think others are stupid, because others know
what people who can't comprehend, can't comprehend.

So please, refrain from the ROFL since it's YOU who doesn't comprehend.
Not me.

All you're telling me is what everyone already knows.
I'm telling you something that you don't know - and can't yet comprehend.

>> Having said that almost nobody *understands* this method, once you
>> understand it, we can, together, *improve* it for everyone to
>> benefit.
>
> The urls:
>
> http://www.stevesandroidguide.com/transfer-files-usb/
> https://support.google.com/android/answer/9064445?hl=en
> http://osxdaily.com/2017/01/13/how-transfer-photos-iphone-windows-10-pc/
>
> Cover it well enough. No need for anyone to rely on any of us for
> more.

Notice that you, Diesel, use the childish "no need to reply" comment.
That proves your mind is that of a fifth grader.

You google for URLs that have "usb" in the title.
You throw them at me, as if they have anything meaningful in them.

I *easily* prove that they're hilarious.
HINT: None of them show how to WRITE to anywhere in the visible iOS file
system.

Do you see how *childish* you act Diesel?
a. You clearly do not comprehend the brilliance of the method
b. You then tell me I'm wrong (but you don't even comprehend it!)
c. You then throw idiotic URLs (that prove you don't comprehend it)
d. And then you say you've proven your point and I shouldn't bother to
respond.

Well, my response is simple:
a. You don't have the first clue how to do these two things:
1. See all of the visible iOS file system over USB
2. Write to all of the visible iOS file system over USB

Nobody who posted can do that.
Except me.

That's the beuaty of the system.
It's NOT obvious - until I tell you.

But some of you _still_ can't comprehend even after I tell you.
*I think that's sad because it means people are incomprehensibly stupid.*
--
I have to realize that I'm dealing with a sea of utter morons.

[Arlen H. Holder]

On Fri, 14 Sep 2018 14:41:40 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:
I just finished responding to Diesel in this post:
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/WqIDiVbawRs/FP11KUd-CAAJ>

I admit. I'm frustrated.
I'm not used to dealing with people who resist new ideas.

I just don't have the social skills to deal with people _that_ dumb.

I'm realizing that NOBODY who posted understood this method.
Not a single person.

I'm trying to edify a sea of inert bricks it seems.

Those who posted can't understand the brilliance of being able to see and
write to any part of the visible iOS file system over USB is a "big deal".

In this thread, nobody told me anything I didn't know *years* ago.
Hence, I learned NOTHING from you (which is sad, since I was hoping to
improve the method even further).

But nobody comprehended the method.
They are all like bricks - where all they see is the USB cable.

And then they throw hilariously idiotic USB-related articles as "proof" tha
the method is universal ... even as they didn't even *read* those articles,
because if they did - they'd realize that they're jokes.

How do you deal with trying to edify people who can't comprehend facts?

I admit it's super frustrating dealing with people who are as resistant to
new ideas as the folks who responded have proven themselves to be, so I'm
going to give up on trying to edify anyone on this thread.

Suffice to say that the brilliance of this system is obvious to me, but not
obvious to anyone who responded.

If you can cite a single article on the net which shows how to WRITE to ANY
part of the visible file system of iOS using a method that also works with
all other common consumer platforms, then please post that article.

Until then, I'll just shake my head thinking that, even as I'm only average
in intelligence, I easily tower over everyone who posted because:
a. I understood EVERYTHING everyone said (nobody added anything new)
b. Nobody understood what I said (I write to anywhere on iOS)

Until people grow up, they won't be able to comprehend what I said above.

I apologize for being frustrated with all of those who responded.

Pardon me for being blunt...and it's not just nospam or Diesel.
It's everyone who responded.
Not one of them comprehends the simplest of facts.

I just don't have the social skills to deal with so many people _that_
incomprehensibly dumb.

I'm sorry. I give up trying to edify you.

[nospam]

In article <pnuuih$17u$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen H. Holder

<arlen...@nospam.net> wrote:

> I just don't have the social skills to deal with people

yep.

[Arlen H. Holder]

On Wed, 19 Sep 2018 22:02:48 -0400, nospam wrote:

>> I just don't have the social skills to deal with people
>
> yep.

Yet again, nospam, in his desperate attempt to *appear* witty, resorts to
brazenly fabricating quoted content that never happened simply due to his
childish need to "sound intelligent".

Why do the iOS trolls like Jolly Roger & nospam always FABRICATE conversations... just so they can sound "witty" in response?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/GExRc1qrFGo/JBzdCKSSAwAJ>

It's one of the 7 common traits of the Apple Apologists
What are the common well-verified psychological traits of the Apple Apologists on this newsgroup?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/18ARDsEOPzM/veU8FwAjBQAJ>

[Wolf K]

On 2018-09-19 21:34, Arlen H. Holder wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Sep 2018 20:29:42 -0000 (UTC), Diesel wrote:
>
>> Arlen, I was specifically responding to your original comment about
>> moving files across various devices without having to use
>> specialized software (itunes,airdrop,etc). It is infact, a well
>> known method of doing it.
> I appreciate that you're trying to prove the method is "obvious", which, if
> it were obvious, would be trivial to prove (becuase it's USB); but the fact
> is that I know something you don't know. Nobody knows it.
>
> Q: What do I know that nobody else knows?
> A: How to view & write to the entire visible file system of iOS
>
> How to do that, is NOT obvious (except to me).
> *The three hilarious articles you cited PROVE you don't understand.*
>
> I agree that USB is well known for moving files, as is the use of
> FTP/HTTP/SMB servers over WiFi.
>
> The only two "tricks" of this method that are not obvious, are:
> a. We use Linux to access iOS (because it does it best)
> b. We use a trick that allows write access to iOS

[cut]

All known before you "discovered" it. Don't you know that almost all
rescue disks are Linux-based? Etc.

Have a good day,

--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
Complexity is not a condition to be tamed, but a lesson to be learned.
(James Bridley, 2018)

[Frank Slootweg]

Wolf K <wol...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> On 2018-09-19 21:34, Arlen H. Holder wrote:
> > On Wed, 19 Sep 2018 20:29:42 -0000 (UTC), Diesel wrote:
> >
> >> Arlen, I was specifically responding to your original comment about
> >> moving files across various devices without having to use
> >> specialized software (itunes,airdrop,etc). It is infact, a well
> >> known method of doing it.
> > I appreciate that you're trying to prove the method is "obvious", which, if
> > it were obvious, would be trivial to prove (becuase it's USB); but the fact
> > is that I know something you don't know. Nobody knows it.
> >
> > Q: What do I know that nobody else knows?
> > A: How to view & write to the entire visible file system of iOS
> >
> > How to do that, is NOT obvious (except to me).
> > *The three hilarious articles you cited PROVE you don't understand.*
> >
> > I agree that USB is well known for moving files, as is the use of
> > FTP/HTTP/SMB servers over WiFi.
> >
> > The only two "tricks" of this method that are not obvious, are:
> > a. We use Linux to access iOS (because it does it best)
> > b. We use a trick that allows write access to iOS
> [cut]
>
> All known before you "discovered" it. Don't you know that almost all
> rescue disks are Linux-based? Etc.

True, but more important is that his

> > a. We use Linux to access iOS (because it does it best)

comment proves that his OP - and everything since then - is one big lie.

Proof:

> I post this FYI so others know how *easy* it is to *simultaneously* slide
> huge files both ways over USB to *any* iOS, Android, Windows, & Linux
> device!

Note "Windows ... device".

> Over four systems!

Note "four". Note "systems".

> Note that on all four devices you have *zero* additional software.
> The only software is what is commonly installed when you install the OS.

[...]

> Note that all four devices have *simultaneous* read/write access.

Note "four". Note "devices".

I won't tell *why*/how my cites are proof that he's is lying. That
would spoil the beauty and brilliance of my discovery.

He has no clue why my cites prove his lies. He doesn't even comprehend
it. While that's in character for stupid people like him always proves
himself [sic] to be, I think it's kind of humorous too and proves that
he's stupid in every post.

*The Dunning-Kruger self-assessment effect fits him well.*

> Have a good day,

You too!

[Diesel]

"Arlen H. Holder" <arlen...@nospam.net>
news:pnutel$v60$1...@news.mixmin.net Thu, 20 Sep 2018 01:34:14 GMT in

alt.comp.freeware, wrote:

> On Wed, 19 Sep 2018 20:29:42 -0000 (UTC), Diesel wrote:
>
>> Arlen, I was specifically responding to your original comment
>> about moving files across various devices without having to use
>> specialized software (itunes,airdrop,etc). It is infact, a well
>> known method of doing it.
>
> I appreciate that you're trying to prove the method is "obvious",
> which, if it were obvious, would be trivial to prove (becuase it's
> USB); but the fact is that I know something you don't know. Nobody
> knows it.

I'll respond in full at a slightly later time. I'm running *very low*
on free time presently. I didn't want you to think I was ignoring you,
or, heh, running away from our conversation.

--
To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber
stalking, it's highly recommended you visit here:
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php
===================================================

Some days, the only good things on TV are the vase and the clock.

[Arlen H. Holder]

The inherent brilliance of this method is that it simultaneously allows
write/read access to the entire visible file system of all 4 platforms:
1. Linux (via ntfs)
2. Windows (via ntfs)
3. Android (via mtpfs)
4. iOS (via iOSfs)

Basically, everything acts essentially like a USB stick does.

The hard part is the *pair* of features in #4 (the rest are obvious):
a. Viewing the entire visible file system of iOS, and,
b. Writing to that entire visible file system of iOS.

Everything else is obvious.

I posit that 99.9999999% of iOS users don't know how to turn their iOS
device into a read/write "USB stick" using this simple brilliant method.

[Arlen H. Holder]

Since I already proved that _nobody_ who posted actually _understood_ this
brilliant method, I simply point the users to the tutorial I wrote, which
explains that which all the naysayers clearly didn't comprehend.

Yes, that's you Diesel, Jasen, nospam, Carlos, Big Al, Slootweg, Wolf, &
Mike S, all of whom proved they were completely full of shit.

HINT: The solution is _not_ obvious - and anyone who said it was, is
clearly full of shit. I don't have the social skills to deal with all the
morons who posted - where NOBODY understood what I know.

Hence, I learned nothing since nobody said anything I didn't already know
years ago - where I'm the only one advancing the ball forward here.

*Read this & please do not respond unless you can add adult value!*
How to read/write access iOS file systems on Ubuntu/Windows over USB cable
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/IFC52JXBQ1c>

If you can improve on _that_ process, please do, but stop proving that
you're all morons, please. Simply try to _understand_ the simple process.

The inherent brilliance of this method is that it simultaneously allows
write/read access to the entire visible file system of all 4 platforms:

1. Linux (via ntfs) <-- easy
2. Windows (via ntfs) <-- easy
3. Android (via mtpfs) <-- easy
4. iOS (via iOSfs) <-- only easy if you know what I told you (see above)

[Diesel]

Arlen Holder <arlen...@nospam.net>
news:pnocue$38e$1...@news.mixmin.net Mon, 17 Sep 2018 14:15:45 GMT in

alt.comp.freeware, wrote:

> *This thread is about USB. R/W to all four file systems.
> Simultaneously.*

It's about a little more than that. You previously claimed, any
version of windows, linux, android, ios, etc. That your method is
universal.

MID: <pnghb3$jc2$1...@news.mixmin.net>

I post this FYI so others know how *easy* it is to *simultaneously*
slide huge files both ways over USB to *any* iOS, Android, Windows, &
Linux device!

***end snippit

As I and others have already told you (Yes, I did check your other
thread from July where you finally disclosed the third party packages
present on your linux distro that provide limited AFC support) You've
incorrectly assumed that all distros contain the 3rd party packages
required to gain limited (not full, contrary to your previous claims)
access to a supported iOS device.

> While this system works brilliantly in that *nothing* needs to be
> added to the Windows, Linux, iOS, or Android file systems, I
> didn't run exhaustive tests on all Android devices.

I know you didn't, because you've claimed it works with ANY Android
device on any flavor of ios, linux, or, Windows. I know for a fact
what you've written isn't true because i've dealt with THOUSANDS of
these stupid Android powered devices (they aren't all phones you
know) and encountered many! that are a righteous fucking bastard at
times to access, because they aren't following the so called
standards.

> Hence, Diesel brings up a "possibly" good point that this system
> "might not" work with all Android devices.

It doesn't. See above.

> But I don't understand yet any actual *facts* which justify that
> FUD. Maybe you can help on those facts?

Let me give you a few more, facts, then. I've been a certified
technician for over twenty years with two honorary masters in I.T. I
have an established track record online as well as offline for my ..
technical expertise and skillsets. There's absolutely no reason to
take me for my word on those claims either, you can *easily* read
about some of the things I'm responsible for via google or your
favorite search engine of choice. Moron, idiot, etc, I'm not.

If you've been around this newsgroup (alt.comp.freeware) for decades
like you've claimed, you'd already know me and wouldn't be calling me
a moron, etc. So, I'm doubting that claim of yours, too.

> Why wouldn't Ubuntu 18.04 be able to access the visible file
> system of *all* Android devices?

Again, I remind you of what you originally wrote:

Message-ID: <pnghb3$jc2$1...@news.mixmin.net>

I post this FYI so others know how *easy* it is to *simultaneously*
slide huge files both ways over USB to *any* iOS, Android, Windows, &
Linux device!

***end snippit

Any particular reason you're getting specific with the Linux distro
now?

--
To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber
stalking, it's highly recommended you visit here:
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php
===================================================

Stop Reading Now....

[Frank Slootweg]

Arlen H. Holder <arlen...@nospam.net> wrote:

> The inherent brilliance of this method is that it simultaneously allows
> write/read access to the entire visible file system of all 4 platforms:
> 1. Linux (via ntfs)
> 2. Windows (via ntfs)
> 3. Android (via mtpfs)
> 4. iOS (via iOSfs)

And this rewriting history of yours is supposed to silently undo the
lies in your OP and ever since then!? Dream on!

Because your self-proclaimed brilliance probably prevents you from
even realizing that your lies are lies, here they are again:

> I post this FYI so others know how *easy* it is to *simultaneously* slide
> huge files both ways over USB to *any* iOS, Android, Windows, & Linux
> device!

Note "Windows ... device".

> Over four systems!

Note "four". Note "systems".

> Note that on all four devices you have *zero* additional software.
> The only software is what is commonly installed when you install the OS.
[...]
> Note that all four devices have *simultaneous* read/write access.

Note "four". Note "devices".

QED.

HTH. HAND. EOD. NK.

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Fri, 21 Sep 2018 07:48:09 -0000 (UTC)
Diesel <m...@privacy.net> wrote:

> Again, I remind you of what you originally wrote:
>
> Message-ID: <pnghb3$jc2$1...@news.mixmin.net>
> I post this FYI so others know how *easy* it is to *simultaneously*
> slide huge files both ways over USB to *any* iOS, Android, Windows, &
> Linux device!
>
> ***end snippit
>
> Any particular reason you're getting specific with the Linux distro
> now?

In addition, let me mention in passing Windows 3.11 and all earlier
versions wherein I'm pretty sure one won't get that 'file
sliding' working.

Cybe R. Wizard
--
Beliefs are the diluting ice cubes in the chilled chardonnay of
experience.
Zorg

[Carlos E. R.]

On 14/09/2018 20.28, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On 14 Sep 2018 15:51:40 GMT, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>> Actually, he is mostly right this time :-P
>
> Hi Carlos,
>
> I need you to answer an adult question, from one adult to another.
>
> The beauty of this method is the realization that the fastest way to copy
> huge numbers of files of huge sizes between mobile devices and Windows, is
> to use Linux.
>
> Since you are an adult, and since you seem to have comprehended what nospam
> said that is "right" about that statement, I need you to clarify for me
> what you think nospam is right about, with respect to that topic.
>
> What is nospam right about with respect to my statement above which is that
> the fastest way to copy files to and from any mobile device and Windows, is
> to use USB on Linux?

Everything that is on what I quoted.
And no, I'm not going to go into all that detail.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[Carlos E. R.]

On 18/09/2018 12.11, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On 18 Sep 2018 06:42:20 GMT, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>
>>> The method you described is a very common method and I'm surprised it
>>> was 'new' to you in the first place. Please see my other post
>>> concerning the limitations you didn't mention, because you haven't
>>> experienced them due to the small amount of hardware/software you
>>> interact with.
>>
>> Exactly my thoughts.
>
> Carlos, I don't think you understand the system.
>
> But, I'll give you a chance to prove you understand it.

Look man, you have posted a thousand posts with a thousand lines each. I
refuse to read them all, and those I read I do not read to the end. You
speak way too much.

Copying files via USB using Linux from a Windows partition is just
trivial stuff not worth writing about.

Just be glad that I still haven't killfilled you. If you want answers,
write short entries, keep stupidities out (no saying iphone or iphone
people are stupid, for instance), and keep to the point.

And I don't care about iphones.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

[Savageduck]

On Sep 22, 2018, Carlos E. R. wrote
(in article <g0o6kn...@mid.individual.net>):

A few thoughts on this:

"I don't mind you thinking I'm stupid, but don't talk to me like I'm stupid." ~
Harlan Ellison

"The world is turning into a cesspool of imbeciles." ~ Harlan Ellison

"The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity." ~
Harlan Ellison

"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance
of being right." ~ Thomas Paine

"It is the duty of every man, as far as his ability extends, to detect and
expose delusion and error." ~ Thomas Paine

“The machine does not isolate man from the great problems of nature but
plunges him more deeply into them.” ~ Antoine de Saint Exupery

I have removed some of the irritating, irrelevant cross posts.

--
Regards,
Savageduck

[Diesel]

"Cybe R. Wizard" <cybe_r...@WizardsTower.invalid>
news:20180921083422.6ad19354@WizardsTower Fri, 21 Sep 2018 13:34:22

GMT in alt.comp.freeware, wrote:

> On Fri, 21 Sep 2018 07:48:09 -0000 (UTC)
> Diesel <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> Again, I remind you of what you originally wrote:
>>
>> Message-ID: <pnghb3$jc2$1...@news.mixmin.net>
>> I post this FYI so others know how *easy* it is to
>> *simultaneously* slide huge files both ways over USB to *any*
>> iOS, Android, Windows, & Linux device!
>>
>> ***end snippit
>>
>> Any particular reason you're getting specific with the Linux
>> distro now?
>
> In addition, let me mention in passing Windows 3.11 and all
> earlier versions wherein I'm pretty sure one won't get that 'file
> sliding' working.

You have to admit, the 'file sliding' is a nifty buzzword. Evidently
selected to explain the newfound 'discovery'? :)

--
To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber
stalking, it's highly recommended you visit here:
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php
===================================================

Cats must cuddle mom's dress shoes and drool in them.

[Arlen H. Holder]

On Fri, 21 Sep 2018 07:48:09 -0000 (UTC), Diesel wrote:

> It's about a little more than that. You previously claimed, any
> version of windows, linux, android, ios, etc. That your method is
> universal.

You're a well-known troll, Diesel, so, while the sentence above is what an
adult would write, let's see what your post is about, bearing in mind that
if you act like a child, I treat you like a child, Diesel.

> As I and others have already told you (Yes, I did check your other
> thread from July where you finally disclosed the third party packages
> present on your linux distro that provide limited AFC support) You've
> incorrectly assumed that all distros contain the 3rd party packages
> required to gain limited (not full, contrary to your previous claims)
> access to a supported iOS device.

You're nit picking, Diesel. Which means my post was pretty damn good!

It's like I'm saying that a nail works in all wood, and you then try to
nail into a knot, just so that you can claim that the nail doeesn't work in
all wood.

The user "joe" cried like a baby, for example, the split second he ran into
the simplest of the most trivial of commands, which was something like:
sudo apt-get install x

For Christs' sake, if you're _not_ on Ubuntu 18.04, which is the system I
clearly tested, and if your distro doesn't have 'x', then you cry like a
baby if you have to run this command?
sudo apt-get install x

C'mon Diesel.

If _that_ is the worst you (and the crybaby "joe") can say about my ad-hoc
Usenet post, then my post is pretty damn good, since Usenet isn't a legal
contract where I have ever sentence vetted by my lawyer before I post it.

> I know you didn't, because you've claimed it works with ANY Android
> device on any flavor of ios, linux, or, Windows. I know for a fact
> what you've written isn't true because i've dealt with THOUSANDS of
> these stupid Android powered devices (they aren't all phones you
> know) and encountered many! that are a righteous fucking bastard at
> times to access, because they aren't following the so called
> standards.

Look Diesel, if you're not a sock for "joe", you sure *sound* like one.
For Christs' sake, if that's the worst thing you can find wrong with this
brilliant system, then it's pretty damn good.

Remember, this is Usenet. It's casual. It's not a textbook where every
sentence has to be reviewed by a team of editors and professors.

>> Hence, Diesel brings up a "possibly" good point that this system
>> "might not" work with all Android devices.
>
> It doesn't. See above.

You're not helping anyone with your childish nit-picking attempt.
Why don't you spend that energy *improving* the process for everyone?

HINT: You can't. That would require intelligence you don't have.

> Let me give you a few more, facts, then. I've been a certified
> technician for over twenty years with two honorary masters in I.T.

And, I can tell, from what you post, that you don't have the intelligence
to add even a single iota of incremental added value to the given system.

That's not as bad as it sounds, as probably only one out of 10,000 people
on this newsgroup have that kind of intelligence.

And that person hasn't posted to this thread yet, since I'm the only one
here who added _any_ on-topic technical value to this thread.

> I
> have an established track record online as well as offline for my ..
> technical expertise and skillsets.

Diesel,
Let's be adults, shall we?

Both you and I can _list_ our credentials, but, really, what matters isn't
a list of our credentials - but how much *added value* we provide to the
team.

I clearly provided added value (since we proved that _nobody_ who posted
knew the tricks that I provided, particularly when dealing with the
persnickety iOS devices).

In fact, it seems nobody _understood_ the whole process, particularly those
that said it was "obvious" since not a single person, when challenged,
could answer the simplest of questions about the brilliant process.

While both you and I can list credentials, at least I added value.

> There's absolutely no reason to
> take me for my word on those claims either, you can *easily* read
> about some of the things I'm responsible for via google or your
> favorite search engine of choice. Moron, idiot, etc, I'm not.

If you (or anyone else) *improves* the process, then you're intelligent.
If you can't improve the process ... you've proved nothing to anyone.

Worse, if all you can do is nit pick, then you prove you're a moron.
Your own actions prove everything we need to know about you.

Mine were that I added value.
Yours were... um ... er ... what?

All you proved, Diesel, was:
a. You didn't understnad the process (that is super clear to all)
b. You haven't added a single iota of added value (also clear to all)

> If you've been around this newsgroup (alt.comp.freeware) for decades
> like you've claimed, you'd already know me and wouldn't be calling me
> a moron, etc. So, I'm doubting that claim of yours, too.

hehhehheh ... I know a lot more than you think, Diesel.
Don't you wonder why I confront you cowardly bully trolls?

Don't you wonder why I _know_ you never understood the process?
Don't you wonder why I know you'll never add any value?

HINT: You can't.
You see, I have been on Usenet for a very long time.

> Again, I remind you of what you originally wrote:

Here's the good news, Diesel.
a. You act like an adult, I treat you like an adult.
b. You act like a child, I treat you like a child.

It's really a simple equation, which is _designed_ to funnel you into
acting like an adult.

If you wish to act like an adult, it's easy (if you're intelligent):
*Just add technical value to _improve_ the process for all to benefit.*

[Arlen H. Holder]

On Thu, 27 Sep 2018 07:46:21 -0000 (UTC), Diesel wrote:

> You have to admit, the 'file sliding' is a nifty buzzword. Evidently
> selected to explain the newfound 'discovery'? :)

*Usenet is full of you worthless trolls, Diesel (and Cybe R. Wizard).*

Both you and Cybe R. Wizard, who is a well known troll on the Linux
newsgroups) can only nit pick.

It's a fact that you, Diesel, didn't even _comprehend_ this process, since
you _thought_ that it was a simple USB file transfer, which, for iOS, it is
decidedly not.

When I *repeatedly* challenged you, and all the other childish naysayers)
to explain the process, particularly how we *write* to the full iOS file
system over USB, you all fell deathly silent.

That's the most telling of all.

You see, Diesel, you prove by what you write that you
a. Claim the system is "obvious", and yet,
b. You don't understand it.

Worse, you prove with every post (as did Cybe R. Wizard), that you don't
have the intelligence to *improve* the process.

Why don't you (and that utter moron, Cybe R. Wizard), use what little
brains you seem to have to attempt to *improve* the process, so that
everyone will benefit from your actions.

HINT: You can't. Neither of you has the intelligence necessary.

That's a fact you, Diesel, (and Cybe R. Wizard), prove in every post!

*Usenet is full of you worthless trolls, Diesel (and Cybe R. Wizard).*

[Arlen H. Holder]

On 21 Sep 2018 08:15:12 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> Note "four". Note "devices".

Frank Slootweg,

I know you all too well as a common troll on the Android newsgroup.

*All you _can_ do, Frank Slootweg, is play silly semantic games.*

Usenet is casual; it's not a legal contract vetted by a team of lawyers,
nor a textbook carefully scrutinized by a team of professors so that every
sentence repeats the same things that are otherwise clear to all.

It takes intelligence to improve this process, Frank Slootweg.
You don't have that kind of intelligence.

You prove it every single time you post, Frank Slootweg.

These are facts:
a. The process I described works
b. I explained which devices & versions I tested
c. Nobody (yes, nobody) understood the process (that is clear)
d. Which I proved by my challenge of asking them how we wrote to iOS

HINT: You don't possess the required intelligence to *improve* this
process.

All you _can_ do, Frank Slootweg, is nit pick on childish things.

Double hint;
a. When you act like an adult, I treat you as an adult
(You know this Frank, becuase you've complained that I treat
you like a child even though, once, you _did_ add adult
value ... remember ... when you gave us the Usenet archives).
b. When you act like a child, Frank, I treat you as a child.

The equation is strategic and simple.

While morons like Cybe R. Wizard, Rene Lamantagne, Wolf K, Char Jackson, et
al. take that strategy as an affront where they need to prove their *right
to troll*, I'm hoping you, Frank Slootweg, still maintain a shred of
decency.

If you, Frank SLootweg, still have a shred of decency left in you, then you
will use you innate intelligence to _improve_ the process - just like you
do whenever the topic of SMB servers come up.

You see, Frank Slootweg, I know you all too well.

Here's what I think about you, Frank Slootweg:
a. You may have the intellectual capacity to _improve_ this process,
b. But, you haven't proved that yet.

Why don't you _prove_ to us that you have the intellectual capacity.
*Improve the process instead of playing your childish semantic games.*

[Arlen H. Holder]

It takes intelligence to add value to an already great setup.

If you feel you are intelligent, please use that God-given intelligence
that you think you have to _improve_ this process so that everyone benefits
from all your efforts.

This thread adds value for those who wish for read/write access their
dual-boot Linux file systems while still booted to Windows:
<http://alt.comp.os.windows-10.narkive.com/EOP3G3NM/quick-assessment-of-3-windows-tools-to-read-write-linux-filesystems-on-dual-boot-desktops>

That thread also explains how to do the same, but with the more difficult
Mac, where, as you know, dealing with Mac users is like dealing with little
babies compared to the usually far more mature Linux users.

In summary, these tools are what we've found, together, to work on Windows:
1. *7-zip*
<http://7-zip.org/download.html
2. *Linux Reader*
<https://www.diskinternals.com/linux-reader/>
3. *Ext2Read*
<https://sourceforge.net/projects/ext2read/>
4. *Ext2Fsd*
<https://sourceforge.net/projects/ext2fsd/files/Ext2fsd/0.69/>
5. *Ext4Explorer*
<https://sourceforge.net/projects/ext4explore/?source=directory>
6. *Paragon*
<https://www.paragon-software.com/business/extfs-for-windows/>

And, in summary, these tools purport to do the same for the Mac
(where the Mac babies can only nit pick about their intense fear of turning
off "journaling", which, (a) they don't have to turn off, but (b) they
_love_ to cry like little babies if we even mention that they can if they
want to.

****************************************************************************
How to read & write to HFS+ partitions by booting to Ubuntu (on the Mac)
!!!WIP ... Untested! ... Preliminary - for review!!!

Please improve so that everyone benefits from every action by each of us.
See also:
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/IFC52JXBQ1c>
****************************************************************************
============================================================================
Your choice (works both ways):
a. Journaling disabled
b. Journaling enabled
============================================================================
Read/Write access to a non-journaled HFS+ drive.

1. Plug in the external HFS+ non-journeled drive into Ubuntu.
2. Ubuntu mounts the HFS+ drive automatically as read-only.
$ mount -l
Your HFS+ device should show up as /dev/sdx
If the drive doesn't automatically mount, mount the HFS+ drive:
$ sudo mount -t hfsplus -o force,rw /dev/sdx# /media/mntpoint
3. Click the eject button in file explorer to unmount the drive.
4. Install hfsprogs.
$ sudo apt-get install hfsprogs
5. Optional: Check the drive.
$ sudo fsck.hfsplus /dev/sdXY
6. Click on the drive in the file explorer to remount the drive as r/w:
Note: To manually remount the HFS+ drive:
$ sudo mount -t hfsplus -o remount,force,rw /dev/sdx# /mount/point
============================================================================
Read/Write access to a journaled HFS+ drive.

1. Plug in the external HFS+ non-journeled drive into Ubuntu.
2. Ubuntu mounts the HFS+ drive automatically as read-only.
$ mount -l
Your HFS+ device should show up as /dev/sdx
If the drive doesn't automatically mount, mount the HFS+ drive:
$ sudo mount -t hfsplus -o force,rw /dev/sdx# /media/mntpoint
3. Click the eject button in file explorer to unmount the drive.
4. Install hfsprogs.
$ sudo apt-get install hfsprogs
5. Optional: Check the drive.
$ sudo fsck.hfsplus -f /dev/sdXY
6. Click on the drive in the file explorer to remount the drive as r/w:
Note: To manually remount the HFS+ drive:
$ sudo mount -t hfsplus -o remount,force,rw /dev/sdx# /mount/point
============================================================================
To read/write on the Mac users' home folder, simply match the User ID:

1. On OS/X, check your UID (typically the default is UID 501):
OS/X: System Preferences > your username > Advanced Options

2. Boot into Ubuntu & add a temp user of the same UID as found above:
$ sudo useradd -d /home/tempuser -m -s /bin/bash -G admin tempuser
$ sudo passwd tempuser
$ sudo usermod --uid 501 yourusername
$ sudo chown -R 501:yourusername /home/yourusername

You can now read & write to both your Mac and Linux user's home folder,
no matter which OS you're logged into.

3. Optionally, add the new user of UID 501 to the Ubuntu login screen:
By default, Ubuntu doesn't list users of UID less than 1000 on the
login screen, where this command changes that default value:

$ gksudo gedit /etc/login.defs
Simply change the value of UID_MIN from 1000 to 501
============================================================================
To turn off HFS+ journaling from the Mac

1. Boot into OS X and fire up the Disk Utility.
2. Click on your HFS partition, hold the Option key, and click File
3. A new option to Disable Journaling will come up in the menu.
4. When you reboot to Linux, it will mount the HFS+ drive r/w automatically
============================================================================
To turn off HFS+ journaling from within Ubuntu

1. Compile disable_journal.c to disable_journal.out
$ gcc -o disable_journal disable_journal.c
2. Run the program to disable journaling.
$ sudo ./disable_journal.out /dev/sdXX
where /dev/sdXX is the partition you wish to mount.
3. Then mount the HFS+ drive using the following:
$ sudo mount -t hfsplus -o rw,user /dev/sdXX /media/hfspart

--- cut here for disable_journal.c ---
#include <stdio.h>
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <unistd.h>
#include <sys/types.h>
#include <sys/mman.h>
#include <fcntl.h>
#include <byteswap.h>



int main(int argc, char *argv[])
{
int fd = open(argv[1], O_RDWR);
if(fd < 0) {
perror("open");
return -1;
}

unsigned char *buffer = (unsigned char *)mmap(NULL, 2048,
PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_SHARED, fd, 0);
if(buffer == (unsigned char*)0xffffffff) {
perror("mmap");
return -1;
}

if((buffer[1024] != 'H') && (buffer[1025] != '+')) {
fprintf(stderr, "%s: HFS+ signature not found -- aborting.\n", argv[0]);
return -1;
}

unsigned long attributes = *(unsigned long *)(&buffer[1028]);
attributes = bswap_32(attributes);
printf("attributes = 0x%8.8lx\n", attributes);

if(!(attributes & 0x00002000)) {
printf("kHFSVolumeJournaledBit not currently set in the volume attributes
field.\n");
}

attributes &= 0xffffdfff;
attributes = bswap_32(attributes);
*(unsigned long *)(&buffer[1028]) = attributes;

buffer[1032] = '1';
buffer[1033] = '0';
buffer[1034] = '.';
buffer[1035] = '0';

buffer[1036] = 0;
buffer[1037] = 0;
buffer[1038] = 0;
buffer[1039] = 0;

printf("journal has been disabled.\n");
return 0;
}
--- cut here for disable_journal.c ---
============================================================================
For commercial solutions:
1. Paragon has an extension for full read/write access to NTFS & HFS+
volumes
<https://www.paragon-software.com/home/ntfs-linux-professional/>
NOTE: They have a freeware version available for non-commercial use.

2. Paragon has an add-on extension for full APFS (read-write access)
<https://www.paragon-software.com/business/apfs-linux/>
============================================================================
REFERENCES (in alphabetical order):

<http://alt.os.linux.narkive.com/ekHuTNWB/quick-cross-platform-question-on-ubuntu-macos-dual-boot-basics>

<http://askubuntu.com/questions/332315/how-to-read-and-write-hfs-journaled-external-hdd-in-ubuntu-without-access-to-os>
<http://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.os.linux/0kdhyqga5FQ>

<http://jaysonlorenzen.wordpress.com/2010/09/13/linux-unable-to-write-to-non-journaled-hfsplus-drive/>

<http://lifehacker.com/5702815/the-complete-guide-to-sharing-your-data-across-multiple-operating-systems>
<http://lifewire.com/dual-boot-linux-and-mac-os-4125733>
<http://pastebin.com/W8pfgHRe>
<http://refit.sourceforge.net/info/boot_process.html>

<http://superuser.com/questions/84446/how-to-mount-a-hfs-partition-in-ubuntu-as-read-write>
<http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1420673>
============================================================================
TRIBAL ARCHIVES:
http://tinyurl.com/alt-os-linux
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.os.linux/0kdhyqga5FQ>

http://alt.os.linux.narkive.com

<http://alt.os.linux.narkive.com/ekHuTNWB/quick-cross-platform-question-on-ubuntu-macos-dual-boot-basics>
============================================================================
============================================================================

[Arlen H. Holder]

On Thu, 27 Sep 2018 13:30:07 -0000 (UTC), Arlen H. Holder wrote:

> That thread also explains how to do the same, but with the more difficult
> Mac, where, as you know, dealing with Mac users is like dealing with little
> babies compared to the usually far more mature Linux users.

Ooooooops.

Before the Apple Apologists jump in and play their silly games...

The thread that solved the same problems for the Mac users is here.
<http://alt.os.linux.narkive.com/ekHuTNWB/quick-cross-platform-question-on-ubuntu-macos-dual-boot-basics>

Notice that it's a Linux thread, simply because Mac users, historically,
over the decades, have proven they lack the adult mental insight necessary
to solve problems that deal with interfacing to the real world outside the
buttons Apple Marketing provides them (IMHO).

HINT: We've tested this, scores of times over the decades, in single-blind
tests as different users asking the _same_ exact question separately in
each group - and then observing the results.

On the Mac groups, they proved all they can do with this information is:
a) Play silly childish semantic games (which helps nobody)
b) Incessantly complain about their intense fears of working with linux
HINT: Intense fear is what drives them to be on the Apple platform (IMHO).

The Mac users prove it every time a cross-platform technical topic arises:
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.sys.mac.system/zbrDzJbiBXQ>
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.sys.mac.system/fPalW7Vg8bs>
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.sys.mac.system/-VpzIMP2IeQ>
etc.

[R.Wieser]

Arlen,

> It takes intelligence to add value to an already great setup.

No, not really. In fact, intelligence has very little to do with it.
But, just keep telling yourself that. :-)

But you definitily would need a modicum of intelligence to recognise that
its not a good idea to create and offer noobs a "great setup" which
contains stuff which will potentially cause to turn they 'puters into
paperweights.

And the fact that you bluntly ignore warnings from people who are far
more knowledgable about the subject than you, and refuse to even mention,
let alone warn the readers of your setup about such risks tells me that
whomever you created that setup for, its definitily not for their benefit.

Than again, the fact thay you are trying to blow your own horn by applying
of some of your "tutorial" sprinkles over other peoples knowledge and than
claim it has something to do with intelligence (no doubt yours, not theirs)
tells me, and probably quite a few others here, enough. :-)

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

P.s.
Some groups snipped. My usenet provider does not seem to think its
advisable to let posters dump their posts into many of them at the same
time. For some reason I do not think he's wrong.

I guess I could do a second post to reach the other groups you included, but
somehow I get the feeling that reaching the ones I trimmed it to already
serves its purpose.

[Diesel]

"Arlen H. Holder" <arlen...@nospam.net>
news:poijsp$88v$1...@news.mixmin.net Thu, 27 Sep 2018 12:53:46 GMT in

alt.comp.freeware, wrote:

> On Thu, 27 Sep 2018 07:46:21 -0000 (UTC), Diesel wrote:
>
>> You have to admit, the 'file sliding' is a nifty buzzword.
>> Evidently selected to explain the newfound 'discovery'? :)
>
> *Usenet is full of you worthless trolls, Diesel (and Cybe R.
> Wizard).*

Thanks?

> It's a fact that you, Diesel, didn't even _comprehend_ this
> process, since you _thought_ that it was a simple USB file
> transfer, which, for iOS, it is decidedly not.

Umm... okay.

> When I *repeatedly* challenged you, and all the other childish
> naysayers) to explain the process, particularly how we *write* to
> the full iOS file system over USB, you all fell deathly silent.

You haven't responded to a reply I left for you...

> You see, Diesel, you prove by what you write that you
> a. Claim the system is "obvious", and yet,
> b. You don't understand it.

The system is obvious and I do understand it perfectly fine. The
term, sliding though is new to me. Was there something wrong with
copy (or cut) and paste?

> Worse, you prove with every post (as did Cybe R. Wizard), that you
> don't have the intelligence to *improve* the process.

If you knew what I knew, you'd understand why I find your attacks on
my intelligence so damn funny. Maybe it's the handle i'm using that's
thrown you? heh.

--
To prevent yourself from being a victim of cyber
stalking, it's highly recommended you visit here:
https://tekrider.net/pages/david-brooks-stalker.php
===================================================

2 + 2 = 4 (for the time being).