Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices?

[arlen holder]

Using only our own devices and our own LAN (i.e., no Internet whatsoever),
can we devise a free, ad free, cloud-free completely Internet-free
calendaring system that synchronizes our personal calendars on all our
devices when we're connected to our own personal LAN?

Is it possible?
How?

I think a successful solution would entail these 3 major steps:
1. Choosing good freeware for each platform (Linux, Windows, Android, iOS)
2. Choosing a single common cross-platform text format for import/export
3. Choosing a synchronization mechanism that works on our personal LAN

It deserves repeating what is NOT part of the desired solution:
a. The calendar app must stay off the Internet (i.e., absolutely no login)
b. The app must be free. It should be ad free. Open source is nice.
c. The app must be able to "sync" somehow, on your personal LAN

Making an attempt to choose the good freeware, how does this list look?
(Bear in mind there are billions of calendar apps but most require login!)

o *Ubuntu* (Rainlendar Lite? Thunderbird Lightning? Is there better?)
<http://www.rainlendar.net/download/rainlendar2-lite_2.14.2.b157-1_amd64.deb>
<https://addons.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/addon/lightning/versions/>

o *Windows* (Rainlendar Lite? Thunderbird Lightning? Is there better?)
<http://www.rainlendar.net/download/Rainlendar-Lite-2.14.2-64bit.exe>
<https://download-installer.cdn.mozilla.net/pub/thunderbird/releases/60.4.0/win32/en-US/Thunderbird%20Setup%2060.4.0.exe>

o *Android* (Simple Calendar? Tiny Calendar? Digi-Cal?)
<https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.simplemobiletools.calendar.pro/>
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.appxy.tinycalendar>
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.digibites.calendar>
(Those are Android free calendar apps that don't require a login.)

o *iOS* (Tiny Calendar?
<https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tiny-calendar-sync-google/id514917848>
(There are very few OS free calendar apps that don't require a log in.)

REFERENCES:
o The Best Calendar App for Linux
<https://lifehacker.com/5882005/the-best-calendar-app-for-linux>
o 6 Best Calendar Apps for Linux Desktop
<https://www.tecmint.com/best-calendar-apps-linux-desktop/>
o The Five Best Open Source Calendar Servers for Linux
<https://www.linux.com/learn/five-best-open-source-calendar-servers-linux>
o Best Calendar apps for Windows
<https://www.thewindowsclub.com/10-best-calendar-apps-for-windows-10>
o Best Calendar Apps for Windows 10
<https://www.windowscentral.com/best-calendar-apps-windows-10>
o The 10 Best Calendar Apps for 2019
<https://zapier.com/blog/best-calendar-apps/>
o The best calendar apps for Android and iOS
<https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/best-calendar-apps/>
o Best Calendar Apps
<https://www.tomsguide.com/us/pictures-story/442-best-calendar-apps.html#s2>
o Ditch your phone's default calendar for one of these apps
<https://www.cnet.com/news/best-calendar-apps-ios-android/>

RFC:
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5545> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4791>

In summary, I'm testing a few calendar apps, where the "server" must run on
BOTH Windows & Linux (as I'm mostly on Windows but often on Linux).

It seems to me that the "simplest" solution is to (somehow) maintain a
master calendar file using a Windows/Linux dual-boot desktop on the
personal LAN using a standard format (ICS?) that each mobile device can
sync to when connected to the personal LAN.

Any suggestions for that basic common goal?

--
NOTE: I realize _most_ people do two things that are not part of this task:
1. They use apps which use Google or Apple or Microsoft servers;
2. They log in to those Google or Apple or Microsoft servers.

[arlen holder]

On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 09:14:33 -0000 (UTC), arlen holder wrote:

> Any suggestions for that basic common goal?

Nothing is automatic yet - but manual ICS file transfers worked nicely.

I ran a few tests, most of which failed for the expected reasons:
a. App required too much (e.g., Lightening needs Thunderbird)
b. App required a login (e.g., every software I tested on iOS)
c. App would NOT read in a given text ICS file (most wouldn't do it)
d. App was obnoxious (some of the Android software had ads)

I did try to install _just_ Lightening onto Windows, but Lightening seems
to want me to either add an xpi file to a Firefox-based browser (which is
not what I want) or to install Thunderbird email first (which also is not
what I want).

At the moment, this test DID work quite nicely ... but needs to be honed:
1. Installed Rainlendar2 on Windows 10 PC desktop (no ads, no logins)
2. On the PC desktop, I manually added an appointment on Windows 10
3. On the PC desktop, I saved that appointment to an ICS file.
[Note: I wanted _all_ the appointments - but this was only 1 event.]
[On a second test, I saw that I can select all events with Control+A.]

Then... to add that calendar item to the Android calendar...
4. On Android I installed Simple Calendar (no ads, no logins)
5. I connected Android to the PC over USB & slid the PC ICS file to Android
7. On Android, in Simple Calendar, I imported that ICS file successfully

Then...to add calendar entries on Android to bring back to the PC
8. On Android I manually added an event using Simple Calendar
9. In Simple Calendar, I also pressed "Add holidays" to add 12 USA holidays
10. In Simple Calendar, I exported ALL EVENTS to a single ICS file

Then... to load that Android ICS file on WIndows (which is easier)
11. On Windows, I rightclicked on Rainlendar > Manager > Import > file.ics
12. That successfully imported the dozen USA holidays & events to Windows

I couldn't get _any_ of that to work with iOS so I put that off to the side
for now. I didn't test Ubuntu yet, but I have no reason to believe that
Rainlendar wouldn't work the same on Ubuntu as it does with Windows.

In summary, I think these preliminary tests show
A. I can create an event on Android or on the desktop (Windows/Linux).
B. I can export all events on one platform, and then import on another.
C. That's, at least, proof of concept (at least initially).

The file format that seems to work is "ics".
Later, I'll figure out how to sync the file automatically over WiFi.

[arlen holder]

On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 10:17:43 -0000 (UTC), arlen holder wrote:

> The file format that seems to work is "ics".
> Later, I'll figure out how to sync the file automatically over WiFi.

Do you have experience with "CalDAV" calendars?
Or maybe "WebCal" calendars?

I ran a dozen tests on iOS, none of which worked, but one of which
seemed promising because the same app is on _all_ the platforms
(Windows, Linux, Android, and iOS).
o One Calendar <http://www.onecalendar.nl/download/store>
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/OzUOmgJLmZs>

I like that "One Calendar" works on all common consumer platforms.

The main problem with "One Calendar" is that I don't see how to
import/export the text ICS file that worked in my initial tests.

Worse, I'm unfamiliar with "CalDAV" or "WebCal" format on my PC,
so I don't know if those two formats might play a role in a home calendar
setup.

"One Calendar" has 7 options, but none of those appear to be an "ics" file:
o Google calendar
o Microsoft calendar
o iCloud calendar
o Facebook events
o Exchange
o CalDAV calendars (this may be the most promising option)
o WebCal URL

Do you have experience with "CalDAV" calendars?
Or maybe "WebCal" calendars?

Do you think they might fit into this "home calendar" work in progress?
Are they easy to set up on Windows & Linux desktops over a home LAN?

[David W. Hodgins]

On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 06:49:46 -0500, arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:

> Worse, I'm unfamiliar with "CalDAV" or "WebCal" format on my PC,
> so I don't know if those two formats might play a role in a home calendar
> setup.

If you're considering using it, review the basics ...
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4791
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CalDAV#Software

Regards, Dave Hodgins

--
Change dwho...@nomail.afraid.org to davidw...@teksavvy.com for
email replies.

[Mike Easter]

aol only

arlen holder wrote:
> I'm unfamiliar with "CalDAV" or "WebCal" format on my PC,
> so I don't know if those two formats might play a role in a home calendar
> setup.

There's a wp article on caldav that relates it to webdav and to numerous
clients, which clients can also be seen (wayback) here
https://arquivo.pt/wayback/20160523203324/http://caldav.calconnect.org/implementations/clients.html


I don't know anything about this business, but it seems to me that if
you are going to have multiple clients on your own network, whether they
are multiple/different OS or not, that something is going to have to be
the server for the clients. The wp article also discusses caldav
servers as well as clients.

There's an example of a discussion on a moz group that illustrates my
point about server and also addresses caldav:

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1132918 How to synchronize
calendars?

--
Mike Easter

[Mike Easter]

Mike Easter wrote:
> if you are going to have multiple clients on your own network, whether
> they are multiple/different OS or not, that something is going to have
> to be the server for the clients.

Radicale sounds like a simple caldav server for linux, py driven, and it
is in the repos for Ub and is kin.

Also:

https://radicale.org/clients/
// Radicale has been tested with:

Android with DAVdroid
GNOME Calendar, Contacts and Evolution
Mozilla Thunderbird with CardBook and Lightning
InfCloud, CalDavZAP and CardDavMATE //



--
Mike Easter

[arlen holder]

On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 07:13:14 -0500, David W. Hodgins wrote:

> If you're considering using it, review the basics ...
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4791
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CalDAV#Software

What I need is someone with EXPERIENCE setting up a personal
calendaring setup on a home network with both Windows & Linux.

I read both of those prior to posting, where the first is linked in the OP
(and which doesn't really help for what I'm doing), and the second is
almost useless since all it does is list 38 CalDAV servers (although it
gives generic links to 22 of those 38 tools).

This list is better though:
<https://devguide.calconnect.org/CalDAV/Server-Implementations/>
where out of that long list, only ONE CalDAV server works on Windows:
<https://owncloud.org/>

But even so ... lists of lists of lists is not what I'm asking for
(I can find lists of lists of lists of CalDAV servers all I want.
That doesn't help design the system because
a. There are too many CalDAV servers to test, and,
b. Most don't work on Windows anyway.

Best is if I can find someone with EXPERIENCE setting this up on both:
o Windows 10
o Ubuntu 18.04

For sure, I'll figure it out. Of that there is no doubt.
But I was _hoping_ someone here would have EXPERIENCE in setting it up.

For example, I've been looking to see if this will work on Windows:
<https://apereo.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/BWK310/overview>

But I'm hoping to get advice from someone with EXPERIENCE.

I repeat: I will always come up with a working solution.
I don't need the Usenet to come up with a working solution.

I need the Usenet to find someone who knows what he's talking about.
Just a couple of questions to _that_ person - will save weeks of effort!

What I'm looking for, mostly, is that EXPERIENCE which I don't have.
I can guess perhaps better than anyone here - but that's not the point.

Anyone who has ALREADY set up home calendaring, would know how.

Since I've never set it up, it's CRAZY to start without that experience.
(If nobody knows more than I do, then I'll will be forced to design it
myself - but that's just crazy to do if someone else has already done it.)

*The main decisions, of course, have ALREADY been made:*
o It's gonna work solely on a typical home network
o As efficiently as possible (Windows, Ubuntu, Android, & iOS)
o But mostly Windows/Android (since Linux/iOS are both problematic).

I've already made a few key decisions - mostly in a vacuum though.

As an example, a key question is whether to use Rainlendar2 or Lightening.
I chose Rainlendar2 because it's standalone - but maybe lightning works
better? That's experience I don't have (I used Lightening as an Outlook
replacement years ago - and never did I like Thunderbird - which I also
used as an NNTP client - and hated Thunderbird for that, for example).

Since I already have a manual solution working, the key is to automate it.
The biggest problem is finding the BEST CalDAV server for Windows.

For example, does the Microsoft one work well on a home network?
I don't know - but someone with EXPERIENCE would know instantly.

(It's easy to find CalDAV for Ubuntu but I need it to work for both.)
Most won't work with Windows, for example:
o https://radicale.org/download/ (seems to be Linux only)
o https://www.davical.org/ (is not recommended for Windows)
o https://www.apereo.org/projects/bedework/download (may work)
etc.

Anyway, my point is that there are TONS AND TONS AND TONS of
options. I know that. I'm hoping to find someone with EXPERIENCE
setting up a home calendaring system to cut down the sheer number.

The second point is that I'll figure it out. I can guess probably better
than most of the people reading this can guess. The point is NOT to
guess. The point is to find someone with EXPERIENCE setting up a home
calendaring system.

I probably should have approached this differently:
I probably should have asked something like...

Q: Have you set up a home calendaring system for Windows/Linux?
Q: If so, how did YOU do it?

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 13:09:17 -0000 (UTC)
arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:

> I repeat: I will always come up with a working solution.
> I don't need the Usenet to come up with a working solution.

If such is the case then you are not only wasting our time but your own
as well. If you /WILL/ come up with a solution and need no help from
the Usenet how about you just go ahead and /DO/ it while you just
shut up about it until it is done?

Cybe R. Wizard
--
The truest characters of ignorance are vanity and pride and arrogance.
Samuel Butler

[Mike Easter]

Mike Easter wrote:

> Radicale sounds like a simple caldav server for linux, py driven, and it
> is in the repos for Ub and is kin.
>

This radicale page discusses how to run radicale as a service on linux,
Win, and macos using systemd linux, launchd mac, and NSSM non-sucking
service manager Win.

https://radicale.org/setup/ Basic Setup


--
Mike Easter

[Dan Purgert]

arlen holder wrote:
> Using only our own devices and our own LAN (i.e., no Internet whatsoever),
> can we devise a free, ad free, cloud-free completely Internet-free
> calendaring system that synchronizes our personal calendars on all our
> devices when we're connected to our own personal LAN?
>
> Is it possible?
> How?

Sure, setup a CalDav server.

> [...]

>
> It deserves repeating what is NOT part of the desired solution:
> a. The calendar app must stay off the Internet (i.e., absolutely no login)

Well, you have to authenticate to the CalDav server so it knows to give
you "Arlen's" calendar rather than someone else's, even if you're the
only user of it.


--
|_|O|_| Registered Linux user #585947
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5 4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

[arlen holder]

On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 07:23:08 -0600, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:

> If such is the case then you are not only wasting our time but your own
> as well. If you /WILL/ come up with a solution and need no help from
> the Usenet how about you just go ahead and /DO/ it while you just
> shut up about it until it is done?

Why do you waste everyone's time, FredW and Cybe Wizard?

Clearly you both have absolutely no technical acumen on this subject.
So why do you post your incessantly worthless drivel, Cybe Wizard?

It's a technical question.
If you don't have a clue (which clearly you don't), then don't answer it.

Have you ever set up a home calendaring system, Cybe Wizard?
o If yes, then the question is HOW did you do it.
o If no, then there's nothing of any usable value that you can add.

I don't expect ANYONE here to know the answers -but they might.

They'd only know the answer if they had EXPERIENCE setting it up.
Otherwise, their guess is no better than mine.

I don't ask for any answers from anyone who has NOT done it.
There's nothing of value they can add if they've never done it.

It's really a simple question at this point.
o Has anyone here ever set up a Windows/Linux home calendar setup?
o Only if you have that EXPERIENCE ... I ask ... How did YOU do it?

If you have never set one up - then please do not respond.
It's OK to have a thread that nobody knows the answer to.

What's worse is when the trolls like FredW and Cybe Wizard infest it.
Please ... if you don't know what you're talking about - do NOT respond.

Only if you have EXPERIENCE setting up a home calendaring system
should you even THINK of responding to this TECHNICAL question.
o Have you ever set up a Windows/Linux home calendar setup?
o Only if you have ... how did you do it?

[arlen holder]

On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 13:58:55 -0000 (UTC), Dan Purgert wrote:

> Sure, setup a CalDav server.

Thanks for that suggestion, Dan Purgert.

I spent most of the night testing over two dozen apps, where my approach
was to first get single-system calendaring working on Linux, Windows, and
Android. (So far, I haven't found a single-system calendar app on iOS.)

After testing two dozen apps, I only belatedly realized that the "proper"
solution is "probably" what you just said - which is to set up a CalDav
server on both Linux & Windows (depending on what I'm booted to at the
time).

Setting up a CalDAV server on linux looks to be a breeze.
So the effort is in finding a good free CalDAV server that works BOTH in
Windows and Linux.

At the moment, after reading up on over twenty of the different ones, I'm
leaning toward "OwnCloud", since it's the only personal calendaring server
(so far) that works on both Linux & Windows (that I know of at this point).
<https://owncloud.org/>

> Well, you have to authenticate to the CalDav server so it knows to give
> you "Arlen's" calendar rather than someone else's, even if you're the
> only user of it.

Thanks for that login/password advice, Dan, where, I think, once I set up
the Windows/Linux CalDav server, that it will have a login/password, which,
if I'm lucky, I can set to <blank>/<blank>, or, at worst "x/y", so that
authentication won't be an issue.

I get your point which is that "authentication" is required, but it can be
done on my own server.

Only belatedly, after hours of testing the client software and latching on
to the following apps did I approach this from a "server" standpoint:
1. For Windows/Linux, the client is currently Rainlendar2.
2. For Android the client is currently Simple Calendar

The manual "ICS" file method works, but it's too manual.

Moving forward, I'm currently looking for a tutorial for setting up
"OwnCloud" as a CalDAV server, since it's the only server software, it
seems, that works on both Windows & Linux (so far).

This setup instruction set "may" work - but it's for a different situation:
o How to set up a CardDAV and CalDAV server on Windows 10
<https://outlookandmacosxserver.blogspot.com/2014/08/how-to-set-up-address-book-server-on.html>

This may be closer, but it's also set up for a different purpose:
o [TUTORIAL] Add native iCloud (IMAP, CardDAV, CalDav) support to WP8 GDR2 Devices!!
<https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2478215>

This tutorial is for Linux, where it say "OwnCloud" is "incredibly
complex", so that's not a good sign though.

What that means is that it's not OBVIOUS which is the _simplest_
single-purposes CalDAV server that works on both Linux & Windows.

Only someone with EXPERIENCE would know the answer to the question of which
CalDAV server to sink time and energy into, that works well on both Linux
and Windows for simple calendaring to mobile devices and desktops on the
home LAN.

I'll eventually get that experience - but I'm hoping to find someone who
has done it already who can advise me on which server to use that is the
simplest to set up for both Windows & Linux.

[arlen holder]

On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 05:24:48 -0800, Mike Easter wrote:

> This radicale page discusses how to run radicale as a service on linux,

Hi Mike,
Thanks for your advice, which, as usual, is on the mark.

It's intersting that your first link suggests BOTH approaches
that I independently hit upon, namely:
<https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1132918>
1. "CalDAV is the eprotocol used for network calendars"
2. Or, sync with DropBox using ICS files.

While I completely understand that sentiment to use "DropBox",
I don't want to use the Internet at all - but - what I can do is use
a shared SMB folder - but that means I have to root Android - and - worse -
who knows what that means for iOS.

That means it's better to just bite the bullet on setting up a CalDAV
server on Windows/Linux instead of "sharing" the ICS files.

Unfortunately, most of the CalDAV servers are only for Linux:
<https://www.calendarserver.org>

The white paper you posted on CalDAV clients is useful, but I spent the
entire night testing two dozen clients already, where I found a few that
worked (none on iOS though) so I'm past that stage now. :)
<https://arquivo.pt/wayback/20160523203324/http://caldav.calconnect.org/implementations/clients.html >

Two reasons I'm not worried about the clients so much are:
1. I already have some clients working, and,
2. Even so, I think I'll end up using the "One Calendar" client
simply because it is said to work on all common consumer platforms:
<http://www.onecalendar.nl/download/store>

I originally went down a different path, testing two dozen clients.
I got the best of them working just fine - but - the sync is manual.
Manual sync works. But manual sync sucks. :)

Since getting calendar clients to work on Linux/Windows & Android was so
easy, I didn't realize the need for CalDAV server software until I started
testing a dozen iOS clients.

After a couple of hours, I realized that I only have 2 fundamental choices:
a. Kludge together an "rsync" of specific *.ics files (Rube Goldberg style)
b. Or, do it right - which means - as you noted - a CalDAV server.

For me, unfortunately, I'm on Windows 80% of the time & Ubuntu 20%,
so I would want a solution that works for both (which you'd think wouldn't
be too hard).

But it turns out that, when I read up on the twenty or so CalDAV server
software package, while EVERYTHING works on Ubuntu, almost nothing works on
Windows. For example, Radicale is highly rated - but it apparently doesn't
work also on Windows.

At the moment, there is only one CalDAV server that I know of that works on
both Windows & Linux - so that's where I'll put my effort. I can't work on
this until later tonight, but I hope to report some progress after I spend
a few hours setting up the OwnCloud CalDav server.

One offputting fact though is that folks say that setting up OwnCloud is
"incredibly complex", which isn't a good sign.

However, the good news is I have a working kludge already, using:
o Linux/Windows Rainlendar2 clients & Android Simple Calendar client
o Manual passing back and forth of ICS event files

After testing dozens of apps, I'm agreeing with you that CalDAV is likely
the way to go - where - the ONLY CalDAV server I know of at this time that
works on both Windows & Linux is "OwnCloud".

Also, the only free client that I know of that works on everything is "One
Calendar", but, if I omit the iOS requirement, lots more are available.

In summary, here's the status of the (constantly changing) plan:
1. Figure out how to set up OneCloud CalDAV on both Windows & Linux
2. Then use OneCalendar on Windows/Linux/Android/iOS as the client

--
I won't be able to work further on this until later tonight though,
so I may not have results to report until the weekend. Hopefully, as
always, when I'm done, I can possibly write a step-by-step tutorial so the
NEXT perfson can just do it in an hour instead of in a few days.

[Big Al]

On 1/11/19 4:14 AM, arlen holder wrote:
<snip>

> Any suggestions for that basic common goal?
>

I'll play devil's advocate, what good does any of this do when you walk
out the door?

You now have a great phone and you can't access you calendar at the
doctor to see if April 4th at 10am will conflict with anyone. That be
unless your phone is the holder of the main files, or the method of
sharing provides for making copies on you local device.

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 13:59:29 -0000 (UTC)
arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 07:23:08 -0600, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
>
> > If such is the case then you are not only wasting our time but your
> > own as well. If you /WILL/ come up with a solution and need no
> > help from the Usenet how about you just go ahead and /DO/ it while
> > you just shut up about it until it is done?
>
> Why do you waste everyone's time, FredW and Cybe Wizard?
>
> Clearly you both have absolutely no technical acumen on this subject.
> So why do you post your incessantly worthless drivel, Cybe Wizard?

Why do you snip your own obvious superiority:
----------

Arlo Holden said:
> I repeat: I will always come up with a working solution.
> I don't need the Usenet to come up with a working solution.

----------
...when you have already stated that you have no need of anyone here?
Without a doubt you already have this well in hand.

>
> It's a technical question.
> If you don't have a clue (which clearly you don't), then don't answer
> it.

Clearly I didn't answer it (are you OK and competent to read for
understanding?) nor did I attempt to do so since you have already stated
your own expertise and ability. Why would I place my own meager bulb
beside your shining-brightly sun? All I did was ask why you
post /ASKING/ when you so plainly already have the answers all in your
head?

>
> Have you ever set up a home calendaring system, Cybe Wizard?
> o If yes, then the question is HOW did you do it.
> o If no, then there's nothing of any usable value that you can add.

...and according to you, no one can because you already have the
wherewithal to find a solution.

>
> I don't expect ANYONE here to know the answers -but they might.

You are here seeking supposed peers? But we all know you haven't any.

>
> They'd only know the answer if they had EXPERIENCE setting it up.
> Otherwise, their guess is no better than mine.

Well...

>
> I don't ask for any answers from anyone who has NOT done it.
> There's nothing of value they can add if they've never done it.
>
> It's really a simple question at this point.
> o Has anyone here ever set up a Windows/Linux home calendar setup?
> o Only if you have that EXPERIENCE ... I ask ... How did YOU do it?
>
> If you have never set one up - then please do not respond.
> It's OK to have a thread that nobody knows the answer to.

As to that, you don't get to decide when, where, or if I will respond,
so just fuck right on off, won't you?

>
> What's worse is when the trolls like FredW and Cybe Wizard infest it.
> Please ... if you don't know what you're talking about - do NOT
> respond.

Nah, I think that I'll go on going on doing just as I please. If that
displeases you, /GREAT!/

As I DO know what I'm talking about (your own superiority) I'm
cleared to post, is that right? Thank you /SO/ much for your approval!

>
> Only if you have EXPERIENCE setting up a home calendaring system

I don't, nor do I care to as I have google doing that for me. Why
re-invent a thing that works well?

> should you even THINK of responding to this TECHNICAL question.

...and I /DID NOT/ do that or anything like that. Maybe you could read
for comprehension just once in a while.

> o Have you ever set up a Windows/Linux home calendar setup?
> o Only if you have ... how did you do it?

I'm just here questioning your own purpose in asking questions to which
you have stated that you already know or will soon discern the answers.

Cybe R. Wizard
--
It is extremely arrogant and very foolish to think that you can ever
outwit your audience.
Twyla Tharp

[Mike Easter]

arlen holder wrote:
> it turns out that, when I read up on the twenty or so CalDAV server
> software package, while EVERYTHING works on Ubuntu, almost nothing works on
> Windows. For example, Radicale is highly rated - but it apparently doesn't
> work also on Windows.

Not so.

I've posted a couple of radicale pages, one showing the clients it works
with and one showing how to employ a service on linux, win, macos.
Here's another installation page which shows installing on win and linux
but only promises macos for later. Excerpts after the link:

https://radicale.org/tutorial/
You want to try Radicale but only have 5 minutes free in your calendar?
Let’s go right now!

(The linux install does it from the command line, but the install from
the repos will work fine in your Ub.)

(The win install also does it from a command prompt if py3 is already
onboard)


The basic install is

pip install radicale

The py site is helpful for learning how to install py packages on
various platforms.
https://packaging.python.org/tutorials/installing-packages/


--
Mike Easter

[Mike Easter]

Mike Easter wrote:
> arlen holder wrote:
>> it turns out that, when I read up on the twenty or so CalDAV server
>> software package, while EVERYTHING works on Ubuntu, almost nothing
>> works on
>> Windows. For example, Radicale is highly rated - but it apparently
>> doesn't
>> work also on Windows.
>
> Not so.
>
> I've posted a couple of radicale pages, one showing the clients it works
> with and one showing how to employ a service on linux, win, macos.

Here's an excerpt from the .gz package for 2.1.11

Radicale CalDAV and CardDAV server
==================================

The Radicale Project is a CalDAV (calendar) and CardDAV (contact)
server. It
aims to be a light solution, easy to use, easy to install, easy to
configure.
As a consequence, it requires few software dependances and is
pre-configured to
work out-of-the-box.

The Radicale Project runs on most of the UNIX-like platforms (Linux, BSD,
MacOS X) and Windows. It is known to work with Evolution, Lightning, iPhone
and Android clients. It is free and open-source software, released under GPL
version 3.


--
Mike Easter

[Mike Easter]

Mike Easter wrote:
> Here's another installation page which shows installing on win and linux
> but only promises macos for later.

Here's a page telling how to run python scripts on macos

https://www.maketecheasier.com/run-python-script-in-mac/ How to Run a
Python Script on Mac

The 2018 Apr article assumes that your mac only has a py2 installed by
default, but you need and can install a suitable py3 from such as here

https://www.python.org/downloads/mac-osx/
Python Releases for Mac OS X
Latest Python 3 Release - Python 3.7.2


--
Mike Easter

[Paul]

Most people now, organize their lives around a smart phone,
so the need for a "vast heterogenous solution" is a waste of time.

Paul

[Dan Purgert]

arlen holder wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 13:58:55 -0000 (UTC), Dan Purgert wrote:
>
>> Sure, setup a CalDav server.
>
> Thanks for that suggestion, Dan Purgert.
>
> I spent most of the night testing over two dozen apps, where my approach
> was to first get single-system calendaring working on Linux, Windows, and
> Android. (So far, I haven't found a single-system calendar app on iOS.)
>
> After testing two dozen apps, I only belatedly realized that the "proper"
> solution is "probably" what you just said - which is to set up a CalDav
> server on both Linux & Windows (depending on what I'm booted to at the
> time).

Don't do that. Means that you're either

- going to run the server database on NFTS
- have to find someway to sync the database with the two OSes
- deal with putting in the data twice

Just run it straight on linux. Personally, I'd recommend a spare box
(slow doesn't really matter, so even a raspberry pi would be
sufficient); but if you can't swing that, a virtual machine where the
virtual harddrive is accessible to both linux and windows may work (NOTE
- same "writing to NTFS" downside applies).

>> [...]

>> Well, you have to authenticate to the CalDav server so it knows to give
>> you "Arlen's" calendar rather than someone else's, even if you're the
>> only user of it.
>
> Thanks for that login/password advice, Dan, where, I think, once I set up
> the Windows/Linux CalDav server, that it will have a login/password,
> which, if I'm lucky, I can set to <blank>/<blank>, or, at worst "x/y",
> so that authentication won't be an issue.

The ones I'm aware of require proper username / password, and many of
them have minimums that you have to follow (e.g. username must be 3
characters). You're only ever putting it in once per device, so even
"arlen / password" wouldn't be the end of the world.

> I get your point which is that "authentication" is required, but it can be
> done on my own server.

Of course, you're the guy running the show.

> Moving forward, I'm currently looking for a tutorial for setting up
> "OwnCloud" as a CalDAV server, since it's the only server software, it
> seems, that works on both Windows & Linux (so far).

Don't think Owncloud does caldav, but then I haven't dug _that_ deeply
into its featureset. "Easily share pictures with non-computery family
WITHOUT using facebook" was really all I needed.

Calendaring is "good enough" via google (although it doesn't tie in well
with the PCs -- but then again, I don't maintain it on the PC). I did
look into using my mailserver and hordemail's calendar features, but at
the time there were no android CalDav implementations. Not that I
_don't_ have that calendar running; it's just that I can only get to it
via the webmail client.

Though you probably don't wanna go through the hassle of setting up /
securing a MTA to just get some calendars.

> [...]

> This tutorial is for Linux, where it say "OwnCloud" is "incredibly
> complex", so that's not a good sign though.

It is, but then again setting it up is a lot of "just follow the
directions to the letter and you'll be fine".

>
> What that means is that it's not OBVIOUS which is the _simplest_
> single-purposes CalDAV server that works on both Linux & Windows.

Generally, that's because CalDav servers are implemented as parts of
other tools (such as a webmail client).

[Wildman]

On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 11:34:17 -0500, Paul wrote:

> Big Al wrote:
>> On 1/11/19 4:14 AM, arlen holder wrote:
>> <snip>
>>> Any suggestions for that basic common goal?
>>>
>> I'll play devil's advocate, what good does any of this do when you walk
>> out the door?
>>
>> You now have a great phone and you can't access you calendar at the
>> doctor to see if April 4th at 10am will conflict with anyone. That be
>> unless your phone is the holder of the main files, or the method of
>> sharing provides for making copies on you local device.
>
> Most people now, organize their lives around a smart phone,

I know a guy that has been using a smart phone for over a
year and he no smarter that he was when he started.

--
<Wildman> GNU/Linux user #557453
The cow died so I don't need your bull!

[Mike Easter]

Wildman wrote:

> Paul wrote:
>>
>> Most people now, organize their lives around a smart phone,
>
> I know a guy that has been using a smart phone for over a
> year and he no smarter that he was when he started.
>

Ha. That's because smart phones don't augment your brain, they drain
your brain.

People lose the ability to read analog clocks, multiply, divide, read a
map to plan a trip.

They also can't go shopping all by themselves any more, they need help
from someone else on the phone.

--
Mike Easter

[Paul]

OK, so he probably didn't make the swirling motion correctly.

I see the ladies at the grocery store staring at their
phones and they make some kind of circular motion on
the touch screen. I think that tells them "what's for supper".
It isn't all bad.

Paul

[Wildman]

They also loose the ability to interact at a human level
with other people.

[Aragorn]

On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 22:28:59 -0600, Wildman scribbled:

> On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 14:33:09 -0800, Mike Easter wrote:
>
>> People lose the ability to read analog clocks, multiply, divide, read a
>> map to plan a trip.
>>
>> They also can't go shopping all by themselves any more, they need help
>> from someone else on the phone.
>
> They also loose the ability to interact at a human level with other
> people.

+1

--
With respect,
= Aragorn =

[RonB]

You're not kidding. And, unfortunately, I'm one of them when I go to the
grocery store. But at least I'm old enough to claim senility as a
contributing factor.

--
The more I see of Windows, the more I like Linux.

[RonB]

On 2019-01-12, Wildman <best...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 14:33:09 -0800, Mike Easter wrote:
>
>> Wildman wrote:
>>> Paul wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Most people now, organize their lives around a smart phone,
>>>
>>> I know a guy that has been using a smart phone for over a
>>> year and he no smarter that he was when he started.
>>>
>> Ha. That's because smart phones don't augment your brain, they drain
>> your brain.
>>
>> People lose the ability to read analog clocks, multiply, divide, read a
>> map to plan a trip.
>>
>> They also can't go shopping all by themselves any more, they need help
>> from someone else on the phone.
>
> They also loose the ability to interact at a human level
> with other people.

That one scene in "Warm Bodies" is a classic illustration of that fact.
Probably the funniest scene in the movie.

[arlen holder]

On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 08:12:49 -0800, Mike Easter wrote:

> The Radicale Project runs on most of the UNIX-like platforms (Linux, BSD,
> MacOS X) and Windows.

Hi Mike,
Sorry I haven't responded sooner, as today I finally realized what I'm up
against - which isn't fitting into the original plan due to pragmatics.
1. Linux
2. Windows
3. iCalendar

Your advice, and the information you found, was, as usual, fantastic, and,
just as usual, your advice was crucial, where I've belatedly come to 3
fundamental "conclusions" based on the links you (& others) provided.

1. Fundamentally, *Linux is the (only) way to go*, with "NextCloud" or
"Radicale" being the top two to consider ("OwnCloud" having severe business
problems that NextCloud doesn't seem to have).

2. Fundamentally, Windows "can" be done (based on what you've unearthed) -
but - setting up *Windows CalDAV servers are likely not for mere mortals*
(particularly those who know nothing of Python) - and even so - in my 80/20
dual-boot situation - I'd _still_ need to interface with a Linux CalDAV
server. (So Windows is essentially out of the question, sadly.)

3. Fundamentally, *iCalendar text files work on all clients*, which, in the
short term works rather well for me simply because at any one point in
time, I'm either on the desktop (Windows 80%, Linux 20%) or on the mobile
device (Android 90%, iOS 10%) - where judiciously chosen clients can
export/import all events, en masse.

Hence, after deep rumination, I realize there are two "best" solutions...
A: Full-time Linux server (best)
B: Extemporaneous iCalendar files (second best)

*Full-time LINUX Server:*
A: The "best" server/client solution is obvious - which is to maintain a
full-time Linux server that the CalDav server runs on - which can be a
raspberry pi - or a spare old plugged-in laptop (of which I have plenty
whose batteries are dead).

*Extemporaneous iCalendar files:*
B. With or without a server, iCalendar *.ics files are perfect for passing
the entire set of extemporaneous events between clients. The only caveat is
that the client has to be "intelligently chosen" since most clients I've
tested do NOT both export and import iCalendar text files.

The list of free clients that do not import & export iCalendar files is,
surprisingly, immense (24 out of 25 don't import & export ICS files!), so I
will only list the clients that I've found that both import & export all
calendar events via *.ics text files (although I'm sure there are others).

*WINDOWS:*
a. Rainlendar2 (aka Rainlendar Lite)
b. Thunderbird <https://lettoknow.com/export-ics-to-thunderbird/>
c. Outlook <https://www.techhit.com/outlook/export_calendar_icalendar_ics.html>

*LINUX*
a. Rainlendar2 (aka Rainlendar Lite)
b. Thunderbird <https://lettoknow.com/export-ics-to-thunderbird/>

*ANDROID*
a. Simple Calendar (mine is the free pro version only on F-Droid)

*iOS*
a. I haven't found any Calendars yet that import/export *ics on iOS

NOTE: Every app shown above is both free & ad free.

In addition, on Android, there are 'odd' utilities that claim to somehow
(magically?) add import/export of ICS to other apps, but I'm not sure how
they can play a role (nor whether they're even needed since I already have
Simple Calendar working): I tested these only briefly...
o <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=tk.drlue.icalimportexport>
o <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=tk.drlue.icalimportexport.linkcatcher>

Note, for Android, AFAIK, there are 3 "Simple Calendar" tools to confuse:
FREE: <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.simplemobiletools.calendar>
FREE: <https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.simplemobiletools.calendar.pro/>
PAID: <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.simplemobiletools.calendar.pro>

[arlen holder]

On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 10:20:58 -0500, Big Al wrote:

> I'll play devil's advocate, what good does any of this do when you walk
> out the door?

It's a valid question, where I'll assume you already know the server/client
conclusions I belatedly came to after long though, which are explained to
Mike Easter et. al in this updated post:
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/2tzv74EJY_s/iDfTeXWlEAAJ>
o Linux server (it's a home-based CalDAV server)
o Android/Windows/Linux clients (essentially, it's a home-based "dropbox")

Both server & client solutions should work rather well even after you walk
out the door (i.e., a CalDAV server running on a raspberry pi or old
plugged-in Linux laptop) simply because you will already have the latest
calendar on your mobile device at the time you "walk out the door".

AT HOME:
o At home, you manually pass iCalendar text files between PC & mobile.

OUT THE DOOR:
o When you leave the house, you have the *latest* calendar files on both.
o If you need to *update* your calendar, you manually update on the device.

BACK AT HOME:
o At return, you again manually pass iCalendar files between PC & mobile.

The good news is that, at least with Android (not so much for iOS), you can
easily save the ics calendar files in a single location that all devices
can access.

Unfortunately, SMB is "problematic" on un-rooted Android, but a WebDAV or
FTP server is quite easily set up on Android, such that Windows/Linux has
no problem getting and putting files from and to Android over the WiFi LAN.

Likewise, USB works fine for Android on both Linux & Windows, such that
copying the files between the two platforms is as easy as sliding them back
and forth using the native Android/Windows/Linux file managers.

That means you can store the "master" ics files on any platform's storage.

It's only iOS that is incapable of these simplest of file-transfer actions.
However, since iOS doesn't yet have import/export of ICS files (that anyone
yet knows of), it's moot if iOS can't also easily transfer ics event files.

[arlen holder]

On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 17:02:19 -0000 (UTC), Dan Purgert wrote:

> Don't think Owncloud does caldav, but then I haven't dug _that_ deeply
> into its featureset. "Easily share pictures with non-computery family
> WITHOUT using facebook" was really all I needed.

I agree with you Dan Purgert, that it's *easy* to share files among
the mobile devices (Android & iOS) and the PC (both Linux & Windows).

In fact, for all but iOS, I've already implemented the _simplest_ possible
solution, which is so simple that I wonder why everyone who doesn't wish to
use an Internet-based calendaring system doesn't set this up.

It's as simple as 1-2-3:
1. Select capable clients that can import/export a master iCal event file.
2. Store the single master iCal event file on the mobile device (or PC).
3. On any device, import/export to/from that one "master" iCal event file.

The good news is that Android, Windows, & Linux filesystems share well.
Hence, _plenty_ of use models will be easy to devise that import and export
to and from a *single* ICS master event file (containing the entire
calendar in a single file).

You can easily keep that single ICS master file on the Android filesystem.

For example, I tested a free WebDAV server on Android to share over WiFi:
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.theolivetree.webdavserver>
o Which says, when run "WebDAV server available on http://192.168.1.3:8080"

Given that address, on Windows, I ran the following command as a user:
o net use X: \\http://192.168.1.3:8080/#/
o This "mounts" the Android filesystem over WiFi as a "network location"

For the record, here's an example using this free FTP server on Android:
<https://f-droid.org/en/packages/be.ppareit.swiftp_free/>
o Which says "FTP Server available at ftp://192.168.1.3/2221/"

Given that address, on Windows, you have many options to share files:
o You can use "FTPUSE" to "mount" that ftp share as a "removable drive"
o FTPUSE <https://www.ferrobackup.com/map-ftp-as-disk.html>

o Or you can use a variety of freeware to sync Android/Windows over WiFi:
o WinSCP <https://winscp.net/eng/download.php>
o FileZilla <https://filezilla-project.org/download.php>

Or, you can simply connect the Android device to Windows/Linux over USB.
o That instantly "mounts" the entire Android filesystem to the PC.

You can then share the master ics file if you wish to keep it on Android.

For automation, plenty of command-line methods access Android files over
USB, e.g., Android Studio "adb" will copy _any_ file on the Android file
system to Windows or Linux over USB:
<https://developer.android.com/studio/command-line/adb>

So will libmtp:
o libMTP <https://sourceforge.net/projects/libmtp/>

(Yes, you heard right - *any file* - even system files - and yes, even if
the Android device is not rooted - e.g., you can copy the hosts file as one
simple example):
o How to modify the hosts file on your Android device
<https://www.modmy.com/how-modify-hosts-file-your-android-device>

For iOS, USB works great on Linux - but USB doesn't work as well on Windows
(long story which we have discussed in gory detail elsewhere), nor does
FTP/WebDAV work as well on iOS as it does with Android (gory details
elsewhere which only the diehard Apple Apologists can possibly deny).

[Martin Edwards]

I don't have a smartphone, and I opted for paper bills when utilities
tried to get me to go paperless. Systems can break down, you see.

[Martin Edwards]

I know people who will admit to that.

[Martin Edwards]

It could be if there's nothing in the freezer.

[Rene Lamontagne]

Paperless Office hasn't worked out so good, Neither has paperless
bathroom. :-)

Rene

[Martin Edwards]

You can get special paint for bathrooms and kitchens.

[Dan Purgert]

arlen holder wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 17:02:19 -0000 (UTC), Dan Purgert wrote:
>
>> Don't think Owncloud does caldav, but then I haven't dug _that_ deeply
>> into its featureset. "Easily share pictures with non-computery family
>> WITHOUT using facebook" was really all I needed.
>
> I agree with you Dan Purgert, that it's *easy* to share files among
> the mobile devices (Android & iOS) and the PC (both Linux & Windows).
>
> In fact, for all but iOS, I've already implemented the _simplest_ possible
> solution, which is so simple that I wonder why everyone who doesn't
> wish to use an Internet-based calendaring system doesn't set this up.
>
> It's as simple as 1-2-3:
> 1. Select capable clients that can import/export a master iCal event file.
> 2. Store the single master iCal event file on the mobile device (or PC).
> 3. On any device, import/export to/from that one "master" iCal event file.

You've essentially made the "discovery" that you can write appointments
in a personal planner _AND_ on the family calendar hanging on the
kitchen wall.

And the secondary discovery (snipped for brevity) that it's a right pain
in the ass to do.

[Dan Purgert]

Wildman wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 14:33:09 -0800, Mike Easter wrote:
>
>> Wildman wrote:
>>> Paul wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Most people now, organize their lives around a smart phone,
>>>
>>> I know a guy that has been using a smart phone for over a
>>> year and he no smarter that he was when he started.
>>>
>> Ha. That's because smart phones don't augment your brain, they drain
>> your brain.
>>
>> People lose the ability to read analog clocks, multiply, divide, read a
>> map to plan a trip.
>>
>> They also can't go shopping all by themselves any more, they need help
>> from someone else on the phone.
>
> They also loose the ability to interact at a human level
> with other people.

You assume I had that capability _before_ the phone. :)

[arlen holder]

On Mon, 14 Jan 2019 12:32:02 -0000 (UTC), Dan Purgert wrote:

> You've essentially made the "discovery" that you can write appointments
> in a personal planner _AND_ on the family calendar hanging on the
> kitchen wall.

I agree with you Dan Purgert, where I appreciate the helpful advice.
Since I'm, by my own definition, one of the best types of Usenet posters, I
will attempt, in this response, to "give back to the team" what I've
learned, by way of short summary (with adequate details).

Had I known a week ago what I know now, I would have completely skipped the
whole 'server/client' approach, or, I would have set up a raspberry pi as
the full-time CalDAV server.

Given that approach wasn't how I started this quest, it's shockingly
surprising how 24 out of 25 so-called calendar apps are utterly devoid of
ics export/import functionality (e.g., I only found 1 on Android, 2 on
Linux, and 3 on Windows, with 0 found to date on iOS).

However, you only need 1 calendar app that imports/exports ICS files.
Given I've found them, I gave up yesterday on setting up a CalDAV server.

To be clear, I'm only human, which, I say jokingly because when I searched
for a calendaring solution, the vast majority (9,999 out of 10,000
articles) talk about using someone elses' CalDAV server:
o Google Calendar, or,
o Apple iCloud Calendar, or
o Microsoft Outlook, Live, Hotmail, & Office 365 calendars, or
o Facebook events, or
etc.

Notice that they _all_ require you to store your private info on the net!
And they all (apparently) require a login, which adds insult to injury.

> And the secondary discovery (snipped for brevity) that it's a right pain
> in the ass to do.

The only options that involved servers that can be set up at home were
o Exchange servers (i.e., email/passwd), or
o CalDAV servers (i.e., username/passwd/server), or
o WebCAL servers (i.e., webcal://)

If we give up on the calendaring servers, we're left sharing an ICS file.
//share/calendar/my_events.ics

The good news is that there are so many ways to share a *single* ICS file
between Android, Windows, & Linux, that multiple approaches will work:
o USB shares (e.g., adb, libmtp, manual file manager, etc.)
o FTP shares (e.g., FTPUse mounts, winscp, filezilla, etc.)
o WebDAV shares (e.g., The Olive Tree WebDAV servers)
o SMB shares (these are problematic for Android due to non-root issues)
o DropBox-like home-cloud solutions
etc.

As always, on iOS, things are harder on Windows (but not with iOS to Linux,
where, surprisingly, iOS is treated by native Ubuntu 18.04 as it should be,
which is as a plain jane read/write USB stick).

In summary, I have given up on CalDAV servers on my personal LAN.
I've opted for the lower-tech simpler solution of a single event.ics file.

ANDROID: I use the F-Droid Simple Calendar Pro freeware to import/export
LINUX: I use the Rainlendar Lite freeware to import/export "my_events.ics"
WINDOWS: I use the Rainlendar Lite freeware to import/export events
IOS: I am still searching for a non-brain-dead iOS app that imports/exports

Currently I'm storing the "master" ICS file on the external SD card of my
$130 64GB LG Stylo 3 Plus where the 64GB external SD card is enough for me
(but it can handle up to 2 TB if I had a card that big).

USE MODEL ON THE DESKTOP:
a. I manage my email & calendar with big screens & keyboards!
b. The best advantage of the desktop is "cut and paste"!
c. When I change the calendar, I add a simple export-to-Android step

USE MODEL ON THE MOBILE DEVICE:
a. I rarely add events on the mobile device due to the lousy keyboard
b. When I add events, I first import the events.ics calendar file
c. After I add events, I then export the events.ics calendar file

In short, there is a _single_ events.ics file that is stored on the Android
external SD card that Linux, Windows, Android (and, someday, iOS) easily
access.

My contribution to the tribal knowledge of the team is that this works
as I stated, where you can use WiFi or USB to access the single ICS file.

[Dan Purgert]

arlen holder wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Jan 2019 12:32:02 -0000 (UTC), Dan Purgert wrote:
>
>> You've essentially made the "discovery" that you can write appointments
>> in a personal planner _AND_ on the family calendar hanging on the
>> kitchen wall.
>
> I agree with you Dan Purgert, where I appreciate the helpful advice.
> Since I'm, by my own definition, one of the best types of Usenet posters, I

You're no better than anyone else. Though you do tend to waste a lot of
time saying nothing of value.

[arlen holder]

On Mon, 14 Jan 2019 21:16:46 -0000 (UTC), Dan Purgert wrote:

> You're no better than anyone else. Though you do tend to waste a lot of
> time saying nothing of value.

Hi Dan Purgert,
Hehhehheh... Don't think I forgot who you are, Dan Purgert.

I was wondering how long it would take you to drop to the level of a child.

Turns out ... it doesn't take all that long for you to prove you're a
child, Dan Purgert.

HINT: Don't you realize I was using your name many times?
Do you even know why?

Probably not.
I _knew_ you'd drop to the level of a child, Dan Purgert.

DOUBLEHINT: You always do, Dan Purgert.

Whenever I deal with children, I repeat their name.
I've been doing this for decades on Usenet, Dan Purgert.

I _knew_ you'd drop to the level of a child - sooner rather than later.

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 05:23:36 -0000 (UTC)
arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:

> It's a valid question, where I'll assume you already know the
> server/client conclusions I belatedly came to after long though,

> which are explained to Mike Easter et. al in this updated post...

The Latin term is <et al.> and not <et. al>.
(Its also the English term since we stole it)
It is the shortened form of et alii, or, "and others."

Cybe R. Wizard
--
“Fas est ab hoste doceri."
Ovid, Metamorphoses

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 14:08:01 +0000
Martin Edwards <buzza...@fastmail.co.uk> wrote:

> On 1/11/2019 9:54 PM, Wildman wrote:

[...]

> >
> > I know a guy that has been using a smart phone for over a
> > year and he no smarter that he was when he started.
> >
> I know people who will admit to that.

I will readily admit to that. OTOH, I now have access to /all/ the
knowledge available online worldwide and almost instantly at the touch
of my voice pretty much anywhere in the US of A and, because of that
access, I think that I do /know/ more now, even if I'm no smarter.

Cybe R. Wizard
--
Drat these computers. They are so naughty and so complex. I could
pinch them.
Marvin the Martian

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Mon, 14 Jan 2019 12:32:02 -0000 (UTC)
Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net> wrote:

> You've essentially made the "discovery" that you can write
> appointments in a personal planner _AND_ on the family calendar
> hanging on the kitchen wall.
>
> And the secondary discovery (snipped for brevity) that it's a right
> pain in the ass to do.

...particularly when Google calendar will keep my computer and phone,
That Danged Wife's computer and phone plus her business computer
and phone and both daughters' computers and phones up to date on all
our calendars. ...and does. ...as long as we are willing to share.

Cybe R. Wizard
--
Have you noticed that, when we were young, we were told that
"everybody else is doing it" was a really stupid reason to do
something, but now it's the standard reason for picking a particular
software package?
Barry Gehm

[Dan Purgert]

Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Jan 2019 12:32:02 -0000 (UTC)
> Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net> wrote:
>
>> You've essentially made the "discovery" that you can write
>> appointments in a personal planner _AND_ on the family calendar
>> hanging on the kitchen wall.
>>
>> And the secondary discovery (snipped for brevity) that it's a right
>> pain in the ass to do.
>
> ...particularly when Google calendar will keep my computer and phone,
> That Danged Wife's computer and phone plus her business computer
> and phone and both daughters' computers and phones up to date on all
> our calendars. ...and does. ...as long as we are willing to share.

Yeah, my caldav server came with my webmail client (I run my own MTA),
so it seemed interesting (and hey, get away from our google overlords).

Trouble was, androids don't do caldav natively, so kinda lost interest,
after the "trial period" of whatever caldav client I was using expired.

Nice as it was, it wasn't $4.99 nice.

[arlen holder]

On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 00:50:03 -0600, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:

> The Latin term is <et al.> and not <et. al>.
> (Its also the English term since we stole it)
> It is the shortened form of et alii, or, "and others."

Hi Cybe R. Wizard,

You are correct!
o Mea culpa.
o Nolo contendere

As you know, I take _each_ post on its own merits & respond accordingly.
(It's a tactic. It's intended to keep both you and me civil. And helpful.)

Thank you for your advice, as I very much _do_ care for correct usage.

The facts are that...
1. I was *incorrectly* using "et. al", which, corrected is: "et al.".
[Using an (Am)English period; not using the (Br)English full stop punctuation.]

2. It stands for "et alii, meaning, "and others" as per this reference:
<https://grammarist.com/usage/et-al/>

3. I very much appreciate the correction - sincerely so.

I goofed.
o Let's hope I don't make the same mistake twice.
o Gratias tibi ago. (I had to look _that_ one up though.)

[arlen holder]

On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 11:37:30 -0000 (UTC), Dan Purgert wrote:

> Trouble was, androids don't do caldav natively, so kinda lost interest,
> after the "trial period" of whatever caldav client I was using expired.

1. I do not understand CalDAV on any platform (as I opted to give up
on the CalDav server setup for reasons that I don't keep Linux
up 100% of the time).

2. Hence ... I have zero empirical "experience" with CALDav
whether on Android, Windows, iOS, or Linux (refer to #1 for details).

3. However ... in my search for a home-grown solution, I did run
across this FOSS on Android, which "may" help you on Android.
o <https://www.davx5.com/>
o <https://f-droid.org/en/packages/at.bitfire.davdroid/>

*CalDAV/CardDAV solution for Android*
"DAVx5 (formerly DAVdroid) is a CalDAV/CardDAV management
and synchronization app for Android which natively integrates
with Android calendar/contact apps. Use it with your own server
or with a trusted hoster to keep your contacts, events and tasks
under your control."

4. If it's not of help, please ignore (see #2 above for details).

5. If it is of help, then please just respond in a way that the overall
tribal knowledge of the group is enhanced from your results.

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 20:03:28 -0000 (UTC)
arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 00:50:03 -0600, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
>
> > The Latin term is <et al.> and not <et. al>.
> > (Its also the English term since we stole it)
> > It is the shortened form of et alii, or, "and others."
>
> Hi Cybe R. Wizard,
>
> You are correct!

Yep. Its nice to hear it from you, though. Thanks.

> o Mea culpa.
> o Nolo contendere
>
> As you know, I take _each_ post on its own merits & respond
> accordingly. (It's a tactic. It's intended to keep both you and me
> civil. And helpful.)

Actually, I know no such thing. Were it really the truth you would
have already addressed the Dunning/Kruger effect post:
Message-ID: <20190116153455.598ac1aa@WizardsTower>
...wherein I meritoriously questioned your own ability to see
shortcomings in yourself and which was posted the day previous to the
one to which you /did/ reply.

Additionally, you would also have addressed the post:
Message-ID: <20190116173832.5bb5e1ba@WizardsTower>
...posted the same day, a day /before/ the post to which you did reply
with your mea culpa.

>
> Thank you for your advice, as I very much _do_ care for correct usage.

That's the one thing I /really do/ like about you. You seem to care
about and take care with proper English usage.

Cybe R. Wizard
--
I like to be open... and I like to be honest. I hate being disingenuous
because that's really uncomfortable for me; I don't excel at doing
that.
Megan Fox

[arlen holder]

On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 19:23:22 -0600, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:

> That's the one thing I /really do/ like about you. You seem to care
> about and take care with proper English usage.

Hi Cybe R. Wizard,

I see _all_ your posts - I don't respond to them all - out of propriety.

Thank you for recognizing I have been a good citizen of alt.usage.english
for decades on end. <https://alt.usage.english.narkive.com/>
in that I strive to spell, punctuate, & "grammarize" sentences correctly.

More to the point though...

I'm always striving to IMPROVE upon our combined tribal knowledge.
o Mine;
o And yours (even unbeknownst to you, as you can see below).

For example, I asked for help on this very question you brought up!
<https://alt.usage.english.narkive.com/IYRnAbiZ/why-on-earth-do-we-abbreviate-alli-so-often-to-save-1-character>

I'm DIFFERENT from almost everyone you have ever met in your life
(in a bunch of ways, the COMBINATION of which makes me unusual).

For an example, I maintain a Usenet STRATEGY which I call the "FAQ model".
Where, by design, my TACTICS fit _that_ strategy.

If you don't COMPREHEND my strategy & tactics - you won't understand me.

For example, most Usenet posters use what I call the "chit-chat model".
o They post 99% to other people's threads, & only 1% to their own threads.
o Each post contains, usually, very little technical information (normally)
o For _that_ model, WHO you are is often more important than WHAT you say

I use a completely different model, which I call the "Q&A model".
o I post 99% to my Q&A threads, & only 1% to other people's threads
o Each post contains, usually, well-cited factual information (normally)
o For _that_ model, WHAT you say are is more important than WHO you are

You'll note, for example, that most of you who use the "chitchat" model,
care greatly about the identity of whom you're dealing with - whereas - I
don't give one whit about whom I'm dealing with - other than when they're
wasting our time - in that I can't forget them (much as I would like to
perhaps).

My strategy is to FURTHER our tribal knowledge, by obtaining technical
answers to technical questions. My tactics fit that strategy (for the most
part).

For example:
o Is this (Marek assisted) Internet privacy procedure as good as I can make it?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/Ih1TMsMjV_M/zYlVS6YOEgAJ>

To be blunt, most of my questions either have a single technical answer,
or, as is often the case, there is no known answer to my questions.

Hence, most of my threads SHOULD be a single post (for those that just have
no known answers), or, they should be a "few" posts, like this thread is,
if we subtract the idiocy from the likes of people like FredW.

This thread is a GOOD example of the Usenet Q&A model working well:
a. Asking a question that doesn't have a well-known answer (it seems)
b. Together, deriving the answer (mostly from Mike Easter's help)
c. And then summarizing the findings (to add to the tribal knowledge)

This thread is another good example of the Q&A model working well:
o What algorithm would you use to find the "best" file by speed?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/WmihnKr-ZyI/1O1msUyLCQAJ>

As is this typical Q&A thread where the Usenet use model works well:
o How do I stop DNS LEAKS in Ubuntu with wicd as the network manager?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/X2H2H8CnqS8/SzmHvNjLDQAJ>

Another example of a GOOD Q&A Usenet thread, for example, is this:
o Ping Steve Crook & other free server admins: How/why are Avast headers & sig added to these messages?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/a8o3srYBw0U/6wkedyq9BAAJ>
Notice how we worked together, in this case, mostly Marek Novotny & me.

Some of those Q&A threads don't come to a firm conclusion:
o What would you suggest for reliable servers to ping for connectivity
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/4cRfRFIgQdU/4Hx5mOTPBgAJ>

But most advance our tribal knowledge, step by step, by step, by step:
o Two questions for Marek about the operation of the vpnstatus script
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/G-84_RC0ePA/F2jn48ObBAAJ>

Where I'm usually excited to the point that I just want to share with all!
o Script inspired by Marek for changing the name of vpn files
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/fEVBFUDAhvE/keRxje0GBwAJ>

And, where I'm sometimes so clueless that I desperately need your help:
o Can you help interpret this wireshark tcpdump pcap output?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/KANMFLA_RQg/e7RVnSM_DwAJ>

Here's another case where I'm out of my league - so I ask for help:
o How do you tell what kind of VPN when you're in a VPN session?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/79Z_OaThLCA/Qz6hwrr4EwAJ>

And, where, often, I report "issues" with things, asking for solutions:
o Report of potential bug/enh in vpnstatus.sh & tbird.sh scripts
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/Uc3yqYZlL0Y/sTP29UsVDQAJ>

And where, in general, VERY FEW PEOPLE actually have usable answers:
o Report of potential bug/enh in vpnstatus.sh & tbird.sh scripts
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/Uc3yqYZlL0Y/sTP29UsVDQAJ>

Now, lots of times, nobody knows more than I do when I ask a question.
o What free unlimited bandwidth proxy-based browsers exist for Ubuntu Linux?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/I78Sg-TQIUo/-mO1ddQVBAAJ>

And that's OK. Those threads should be short (ideally, a single post).

But, most of the time, I can COMBINE our knowledge to write a SOLUTION:
o Result of 1 year of work improving free VPN for Linux users
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/j5nKzZs9O-4/nU13HkivBwAJ>

Where some threads consist purely of those added-value solutions:
o Free openvpn config using efficient scripts (please improve so all benefit)
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/IXT9Eblx3iw/2D8Tta06FgAJ>

I could go on (and on) for, oh, I don't know ... THOUSANDS of tutorials (I
don't count them - but I generally write at least one or two or three a
week - not all of which do I post to Usenet as I'm well know on about a
dozen topic-specific web sites where I post my DIYs & Tutorials galore).

Having said all of that, what irks me are the utterly incomprehensibly
idiotic comments such as those you see from Dan Purgert, you, and FredW in
this thread (and where I can list thousands in other threads), where, I
simply ask these people if THEY contribute to the thread with their utterly
idiotic drivel.

I do this STRATEGICALLY, not to save the current thread, since I believe
once the trolls show up in any thread, like flies at a picnic, it's already
ruined (where I bluntly liken it to the trolls shitting on the potluck
picnic table that is Usenet) - but - to save the NEXT thread.

That is, if I make it "not fun" for YOU, Cybe R. Wizard, to troll, you've
ALREADY ruined THIS thread by your trolls - but - I hope to make you aware
that I will ALWAYS call you out on your trolls (like I did in this thread).

I do that - on purpose - to make it more expensive (i.e., "less fun") for
you and those like you to play your worthless silly little games.

Bear in mind I'm EXPLAINING my tactics to support my strategy, so I'm sort
of breaking my rule responding to like posts in like manner - in that I
don't "think" your most recent post that I'm responding to is a troll - but
- it's clear as the air we breathe that your INITIAL post to this thread
was your attempt to shit on the table of the potluck picnic that is Usenet.

You're shocked, I'm sure, that I called you out on your trolling;
but you really should simply realize that I'm CONSISTENT in my tactics
which support my strategy.

My strategy is to learn & further our combined tribal knowledge.
My tactic is to ask a question - manage the thread - and then leave.

When the trolls inevitably arrive - I assume that Q&A thread is already
ruined just as if the trolls shat' on the Potluck Picnic Table as their
contribution to Usenet - so I simply make it "expensive" (i.e., "less fun")
for the trolls to play their silly little games.

One thing is going to change though, moving forward, which is that I'm
going to realize that "some people" are not only incredibly stupid (which I
already knew), but they're literally incapable of comprehending even the
simplest of facts. There is a thread already on that topic so I belabor it
not here...
o I just belatedly realized why adults can't communicate with Jolly Roger & nospam & Alan Baker & Snit - because they're too far to the left on the Dunning-Kruger scale
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.os.linux/4Wb5i0W3nOo>

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 06:24:43 -0000 (UTC)
arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:

> That is, if I make it "not fun" for YOU, Cybe R. Wizard, to troll,
> you've ALREADY ruined THIS thread by your trolls - but - I hope to
> make you aware that I will ALWAYS call you out on your trolls (like I
> did in this thread).

In that case you have failed yet again and failed most miserably. I do,
though, fully understand that such is a normal position for you in
which you regularly find yourself.

But, hey, go on ahead and call me right out on my post showing
definitively why YOU are the poster child for the Dunning/Kruger
effect on the less-than-normally-gifted.

In case you've 'lost' it, here it is:
Message-ID: <20190116153455.598ac1aa@WizardsTower>

Waiting for that one from you will take a while, I'm sure, as you are so
afraid of it. Fear on, fear on, little girl.

Otherwise you would have long since addressed it, wouldn't you have?

Coward, arlene? Say you are. Go on and say it out loud; it won't hurt.

I think goading you is /great/ fun. Blasting buffoons with their own
buffoonery always is. You are so cocksure and blatantly arrogant and so
wrong in both opinions that it is pure joy to bring you down to the
point where you have no other recourse but to deflect and obfuscate the
very point I've been making, to whit, you are the very epitome of the
low-browed believing they are /all that/ (/in/ a bag -0- chips).

Run, arlow, run! Dodge, harlen, dodge! ...and show those 10,000
tutorials. You know you can! You know you want to! You know
that everyone is waiting with bated breath to see them. SURE, you
did. Riiight.

Get with the program and show that you aren't just another pathetic
blowhard liar. As if you could.

Cybe R. Wizard -10,000 tutorials is almost one EACH day for 30 YEARS
--
1) huge ego - check
2) inflated sense of self importance - check
3) clueless idiot - check
4) megalomaniac tendencies - check
5) elected official - who yet knows?

Sounds like arlen is a professional politician. What personality flaws
contribute to this deviant behavior and how can a society work to
correct them?

[Dan Purgert]

arlen holder wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 19:23:22 -0600, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
>
>> That's the one thing I /really do/ like about you. You seem to care
>> about and take care with proper English usage.
>
> Hi Cybe R. Wizard,

> [...]

> I'm DIFFERENT from almost everyone you have ever met in your life
> (in a bunch of ways, the COMBINATION of which makes me unusual).

Everyone is different from everyone else. That's part of being human
... unless you're a lizardperson perhaps? That would be a way better
explanation for why you use everyone's full nick all the time than
something about "talking to them like children".

>
> For an example, I maintain a Usenet STRATEGY which I call the "FAQ model".
> Where, by design, my TACTICS fit _that_ strategy.
>
> If you don't COMPREHEND my strategy & tactics - you won't understand me.

I've yet to see anyone who doesn't comprehend what it is you're doing,
arlen holder.

>
> For example, most Usenet posters use what I call the "chit-chat model".
> o They post 99% to other people's threads, & only 1% to their own threads.

Perhaps it's because they have no need to create threads to get things
done, yet rather reserve their posting for people needing help.

Though that does have downsides of making it look like a group is dead.

> o Each post contains, usually, very little technical information (normally)

One can cherry-pick anything to suit their needs, of course, arlen
holder.

> [...]

> o Each post contains, usually, well-cited factual information (normally)
> o For _that_ model, WHAT you say are is more important than WHO you are

Unless you're "Diesel, Snit, Colonel Edmund J. Burke, John, Doe, Nomen
Nomescu, Shadow, Good Guy, Mr. Man-wai Chang, David B., %, Anonymous,
Cybe R Wizard, etc. (MessageID: <q1o1lh$lrs$1...@news.mixmin.net> )", of
course.

>
> You'll note, for example, that most of you who use the "chitchat" model,
> care greatly about the identity of whom you're dealing with - whereas - I
> don't give one whit about whom I'm dealing with - other than when they're
> wasting our time - in that I can't forget them (much as I would like to
> perhaps).

That is, merely your opinon, arlen holder.

> My strategy is to FURTHER our tribal knowledge, by obtaining technical
> answers to technical questions. My tactics fit that strategy (for the most
> part).

Until they don't, and you start in on your ad hominem arguments that
someone is "a child" (or immune to facts, or whatever the angle du jour
is, arlen holder.)

>
> For example:
> o Is this (Marek assisted) Internet privacy procedure as good as I can
> make it?
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/Ih1TMsMjV_M/zYlVS6YOEgAJ>

"Internet privacy", links to google.

Made me think of this:
"War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength."

> [...]

> This thread is a GOOD example of the Usenet Q&A model working well:
> a. Asking a question that doesn't have a well-known answer (it seems)

It has a well-known answer. "Run a CalDAV server of your own". It's
not an "easy" solution by any means, but it is well known.

Trouble is, the likes of facebook / google / etc. have done about as
much good to "the web" as AOL did to Usenet in 1993.

> [...]

> Having said all of that, what irks me are the utterly incomprehensibly
> idiotic comments such as those you see from Dan Purgert, you, and FredW in
> this thread (and where I can list thousands in other threads), where, I
> simply ask these people if THEY contribute to the thread with their
> utterly idiotic drivel.

arlen holder, you could've left this out, and nothing of value would've
been lost.

>
> I do this STRATEGICALLY, not to save the current thread, since I believe

arlen holder, the thing you miss is that the thread does not need
"saving" by any stretch of the imagination.

> once the trolls show up in any thread, like flies at a picnic, it's
> already ruined (where I bluntly liken it to the trolls shitting on the
> potluck picnic table that is Usenet) - but - to save the NEXT thread.

Where you'll have the same antics as ever, arlen holder. We really
shouldn't sink to the bait, but, well, it can be fun.

>
> That is, if I make it "not fun" for YOU, Cybe R. Wizard, to troll, you've
> ALREADY ruined THIS thread by your trolls - but - I hope to make you aware
> that I will ALWAYS call you out on your trolls (like I did in this
> thread).

Some big accusations there, arlen holder. You've done just as much (if
not more) to sully the thread as anyone else.

>
> I do that - on purpose - to make it more expensive (i.e., "less fun") for
> you and those like you to play your worthless silly little games.

I've yet to stop having "fun" in this thread (although your posts do
tend to be like reading Tolkien. Lots of words to say very little).

>
> My strategy is to learn & further our combined tribal knowledge.
> My tactic is to ask a question - manage the thread - and then leave.

"Manage" a thread by making ad hominem attacks toward people you don't
like, arlen holder.

> When the trolls inevitably arrive - I assume that Q&A thread is already
> ruined just as if the trolls shat' on the Potluck Picnic Table as their
> contribution to Usenet - so I simply make it "expensive" (i.e., "less
> fun") for the trolls to play their silly little games.

arlen holder, the thing you don't understand is that the thread is not
ruined at all; until you start making ad hominem arguments (and at which
time, people respond in kind).

Not to mention, it's funny watching you get riled up and calling people
more knowledgeable than you children, and then you not getting any
answers about whatever.

>
> One thing is going to change though, moving forward, which is that I'm
> going to realize that "some people" are not only incredibly stupid
> (which I already knew), but they're literally incapable of
> comprehending even the simplest of facts. There is a thread already on
> that topic so I belabor it not here...

arlen holder, you mean people like Cybe, right? I mean, you did happen
to call him out by name in the aforementioned thread.

> o I just belatedly realized why adults can't communicate with Jolly
> Roger & nospam & Alan Baker & Snit - because they're too far to the
> left on the Dunning-Kruger scale

And Cybe. Don't forget you called him out by name in that list as well.

[Dan Purgert]

Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 06:24:43 -0000 (UTC)
> arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:
>
>> That is, if I make it "not fun" for YOU, Cybe R. Wizard, to troll,
>> you've ALREADY ruined THIS thread by your trolls - but - I hope to
>> make you aware that I will ALWAYS call you out on your trolls (like I
>> did in this thread).
>

> [...]

>
> Cybe R. Wizard -10,000 tutorials is almost one EACH day for 30 YEARS

$10 says he's counting "each post" in his "style" a "tutorial".

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 13:58:04 -0000 (UTC)
Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net> wrote:

> And Cybe. Don't forget you called him out by name in that list as
> well.

Meh, he would rather just forget me as I have called him out on several
things he WILL NOT discuss. Oddly, they are all about his own lack
of honesty. Go figure.

I guess that recognizing a giant sack of excrement as a giant sack of
excrement causes stupidity. The only question is where the causality
lands.

Cybe R. Wizard
--
“Do you know what we call opinion in the absence of evidence? We call
it prejudice.”
Michael Crichton, State of Fear

[Dan Purgert]

Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 13:58:04 -0000 (UTC)
> Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net> wrote:
>
>> And Cybe. Don't forget you called him out by name in that list as
>> well.
>
> Meh, he would rather just forget me as I have called him out on several
> things he WILL NOT discuss. Oddly, they are all about his own lack
> of honesty. Go figure.
>
> I guess that recognizing a giant sack of excrement as a giant sack of
> excrement causes stupidity. The only question is where the causality
> lands.

"Not far from the tree" rings a bell, but I can't say why.

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 14:24:04 -0000 (UTC)
Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net> wrote:

> Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
> > On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 06:24:43 -0000 (UTC)
> > arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:
> >
> >> That is, if I make it "not fun" for YOU, Cybe R. Wizard, to troll,
> >> you've ALREADY ruined THIS thread by your trolls - but - I hope to
> >> make you aware that I will ALWAYS call you out on your trolls
> >> (like I did in this thread).
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > Cybe R. Wizard -10,000 tutorials is almost one EACH day for 30
> > YEARS
>
> $10 says he's counting "each post" in his "style" a "tutorial".
>

No, I won't be taking that sucker's bet.

Cybe R. Wizard
--
I'm a real sucker for boobs but arlen holder hasn't offered me a bet
yet.
me

[Dan Purgert]

Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 14:24:04 -0000 (UTC)
> Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net> wrote:

>> [...]

>> $10 says he's counting "each post" in his "style" a "tutorial".
>>
> No, I won't be taking that sucker's bet.

Damn, was so close, I could taste the sammich I was gonna buy.

[Aragorn]

On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 15:19:20 +0000, Dan Purgert scribbled:

> Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
>> On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 14:24:04 -0000 (UTC)
>> Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net> wrote:
>>> [...]
>>> $10 says he's counting "each post" in his "style" a "tutorial".
>>>
>> No, I won't be taking that sucker's bet.
>
> Damn, was so close, I could taste the sammich I was gonna buy.

I don't buy sammiches. That's proprietary stuff. I always build my own
from source. :p

--
With respect,
= Aragorn =

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 15:05:40 -0000 (UTC)

Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net> wrote:

> Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
> > On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 13:58:04 -0000 (UTC)
> > Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net> wrote:
> >
> >> And Cybe. Don't forget you called him out by name in that list as
> >> well.
> >
> > Meh, he would rather just forget me as I have called him out on
> > several things he WILL NOT discuss. Oddly, they are all about his
> > own lack of honesty. Go figure.
> >
> > I guess that recognizing a giant sack of excrement as a giant sack
> > of excrement causes stupidity. The only question is where the
> > causality lands.
>
> "Not far from the tree" rings a bell, but I can't say why.
>
>

;-]

Cybe R. Wizard
--
Usenet Rule #17: Go not to UseNet for counsel, for they will say both
`No' and `Yes' and `Try another newsgroup'.

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 15:19:20 -0000 (UTC)

Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net> wrote:

> Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
> > On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 14:24:04 -0000 (UTC)
> > Dan Purgert <d...@djph.net> wrote:
> >> [...]
> >> $10 says he's counting "each post" in his "style" a "tutorial".
> >>
> > No, I won't be taking that sucker's bet.
>
> Damn, was so close, I could taste the sammich I was gonna buy.
>

<sudo apt make Dan a sammich>

Cybe R. Wizard -...and, POOF! You're a sammich! (new functionality)
--
Usenet Rule #29: no rational discourse can happen in a thread
cross-posted to more than two newsgroups.

[Wolf K]

On 2019-01-18 01:24, arlen holder wrote:
[...]

> I could go on (and on) for, oh, I don't know ... THOUSANDS of tutorials (I
> don't count them - but I generally write at least one or two or three a
> week - not all of which do I post to Usenet as I'm well know on about a
> dozen topic-specific web sites where I post my DIYs & Tutorials galore).

[...]

Do the arithmetic: Assume the 1.5 per week on average. That's 78/year,
780 in 10 years, 1560 in 20 years, 2340 in 30 years. 30 Years ago was
1988. I didn't see any of your tutorials back then, so where were you?

Sorry for indulging in "chit-chat", but if you make claims, they should
at least be plausible?

Have a frabjous day,

--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
People worry that computers will get too smart
and take over the world, but the real problem is
that they’re too stupid and they’ve already taken over
the world (Pedro Domingos)

[Wolf K]

On 2019-01-18 08:58, :

Arlen wrote:
>
>> My strategy is to FURTHER our tribal knowledge, by obtaining technical
>> answers to technical questions. My tactics fit that strategy (for the most
>> part).

Dan Purgert wrote

> Until they don't, and you start in on your ad hominem arguments that
> someone is "a child" (or immune to facts, or whatever the angle du jour
> is, arlen holder.)

I'm getting tired of Arlen's continuing equation of children with stupid
people.

Children aren't stupid. They're learning machines. Humans' ability to
learn declines with age. Would Arlen were more like a child.

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 10:33:53 -0500
Wolf K <wol...@sympatico.ca> wrote:

> On 2019-01-18 01:24, arlen holder wrote:
> [...]
> > I could go on (and on) for, oh, I don't know ... THOUSANDS of
> > tutorials (I don't count them - but I generally write at least one
> > or two or three a week - not all of which do I post to Usenet as
> > I'm well know on about a dozen topic-specific web sites where I
> > post my DIYs & Tutorials galore).
> [...]
>
> Do the arithmetic: Assume the 1.5 per week on average. That's
> 78/year, 780 in 10 years, 1560 in 20 years, 2340 in 30 years. 30
> Years ago was 1988. I didn't see any of your tutorials back then, so
> where were you?
>
> Sorry for indulging in "chit-chat", but if you make claims, they
> should at least be plausible?
>
> Have a frabjous day,
>

Just naturally Arlow Holding is lying:
----------
Message-ID: <po4626$vpu$1...@news.mixmin.net>

Arelene Holdout said:
"I have likely written over ten thousand tutorials, where at my last
company, I wrote over five thousand alone. On the Internet, I don't know
how many I have, but if you assume that I write one a day sometimes,
and at least one a week, I have many thousands"
----------

Your math is spot on. His lies are spotted quickly.

Cybe R. Wizard
--
Usenet Rule #5 (Reimer's Reason): Nobody ever ignores what they should
ignore on Usenet.

[Dan Purgert]

Yeah, but the shop down the street is a local business, and run by some
pretty awesome people, so there is that.

[Dan Purgert]

Wolf K wrote:
> On 2019-01-18 08:58, :
> Arlen wrote:
>>
>>> My strategy is to FURTHER our tribal knowledge, by obtaining technical
>>> answers to technical questions. My tactics fit that strategy (for the most
>>> part).
> Dan Purgert wrote
>> Until they don't, and you start in on your ad hominem arguments that
>> someone is "a child" (or immune to facts, or whatever the angle du jour
>> is, arlen holder.)
>
> I'm getting tired of Arlen's continuing equation of children with stupid
> people.
>
> Children aren't stupid. They're learning machines. Humans' ability to
> learn declines with age. Would Arlen were more like a child.

Don't have to tell me twice. Just made a bet (and lost!) with my 2 year
old a few days ago.

"Sure, we can play in the toyroom if you can open the door" (Note, in
addition to being a round handle, it has one of those child-safety
things on it).

About 5 minutes later, we're playing tea in the toyroom.

[arlen holder]

On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 09:52:14 -0600, Cybe R. Wizard wrote:

> "I have likely written over ten thousand tutorials, where at my last
> company, I wrote over five thousand alone. On the Internet, I don't know
> how many I have, but if you assume that I write one a day sometimes,
> and at least one a week, I have many thousands"

IMPORTANT UPDATE!
(This makes the entire process _much_ easier to use a Windows server!)

See also new information from Frank Slootweg & Paul & Dan Purgert & Poutnik
in this thread from today where we figured out that the Android freeware
SMB clients are using (apparently) SMBv1 while Windows 10 SMB server,
by default, expressly does not enable SMBv1 (Windows 10 apparently only
enables SMBv2 or SMBv3).
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/iIjcGCYnm-E>

The error message you get using the AndSMB client is cryptic:
o "at jcifs.e.a.c.run(Unknown Source) at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java: 761)"
o "Connecting, please wait ..."
o "Cannot change directory to /pubpc2"
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=5615405smb_win10_default03.jpg>

What that AndSMB client error actually indicates is something like:
"The AndSMB client, using SMBv1, cannot connect to your Windows 10
SMB server because SMBv2 or SMBv3 is enabled, but not SMBv1."

To enable SMBv1 in Windows 10, all you need to do are these steps:
o Start > Run > control > OK
o Programs > Programs and Features > Turn Windows Features on or off >
o Change from:
[_]SMB 1.0/CIFS File Sharing Support
[_]SMB 1.0/CIFS Automatic Removal <=== I'm not sure what this is???
[_]SMB 1.0/CIFS Client
[_]SMB 1.0/CIFS Server
[x]SMB Direct

o Change to:
[x]SMB 1.0/CIFS File Sharing Support
[x]SMB 1.0/CIFS Automatic Removal <=== I'm not sure what this is???
[x]SMB 1.0/CIFS Client
[x]SMB 1.0/CIFS Server
[x]SMB Direct
o Reboot

Here's what one machine had as the defaults (and what I changed it to):
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2299279smb_win10_default01.jpg>

Here's the similar (slightly different) default on the other Win10 machine:
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=3580897smb_win10_default02.png>

Here is what AndSMB looks like once you have SMBv1 running on Win10:
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=9491157smb_win10_default04.jpg>

Here is SyncMe WiFi working once you have SMBv1 running on Win10:
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=4819399smb_win10_default05.jpg>

In summary, thanks to Paul & Dan Purgert & Poutnik, and particularly
to Frank Slootweg, we can now get an SMBv1 *client* to talk to Windows 10.

This is useful for a variety of purpose, e.g., for passing CalDAV exports
back and forth between Windows, Linux, Mac, iOS, and Android,
so as to manage a calendar on your home LAN sans need for putting your
calendar on the Internet:
o Can we come up with a free, ad free, cloud-free calendaring system that works with Windows and Linux and mobile devices?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.os.linux/ydQ9sG-8Y08>

Or, for passing a KeePass passwd.kdbx encrypted password file db
across your personal LAN to all your Windows, Linux, Mac, iOS, and
Android devices, again, sans need for putting passwds on the Internet:
o Have You Been Pwned? Do you have a working cross-platform PASSWD database for Windows, Linux, Mac, iOS, & Android on your home LAN?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/iIjcGCYnm-E>

CAVEAT: This only works for SMB *clients* on Android.

The Android SMB *server* still has the deadly catch22 of:
o Windows SMB clients are hard coded to TCP port 445 traffic
o Unrooted Android SMB severs are not allowed to use ports 1-1024

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Mon, 21 Jan 2019 01:33:10 -0000 (UTC)
arlen holder <ar...@arlen.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 09:52:14 -0600, Cybe R. Wizard /DID NOT/ write:
>
> > "I have likely written over ten thousand tutorials, where at my last
> > company, I wrote over five thousand alone. On the Internet, I don't
> > know how many I have, but if you assume that I write one a day
> > sometimes, and at least one a week, I have many thousands"

Another lie, Horlew. Clearly I have never claimed to have written ANY
tutorials. I HAVE regularly challenged YOUR claim to have written
10,000 tutorials and am still awaiting that list from you.

One per day, EVERY SINGLE DAY, for over 27 years seems like a lie to
me. Show the list, liar.

Why do you try deflection and blaming me for your own obvious foibles
and failures? I've never written one single tutorial of which I am
aware. Do you think that you are a constant delight for your mother by
being an inveterate liar?

I'm sure that she is SO PROUD.

Cybe R. Wizard
--
Let me get you to understand I don't bully anybody. I stand up for what
I believe in and I'm very honest and I always tell the truth. I'm not a
liar, I'm not manipulative and I don't stab you in your back because I
will stab you in your chest.
NeNe Leakes

[arlen holder]

Update:

The use model is working GREAT where there is no "master" iCalendar file.
o On any platform, I add to the calendar using appropriate free software
o Then I "export" that full or partial events.ics iCalendar file
o On any platform, I "import" that partial or full iCalendar file

This use model of "merging" iCalendar files from any platform over the LAN
seems to be working well on tested platforms (iOS testing soon to begin).

Interestingly, this "merge" use model may very well be what we use for
our home-LAN-based password managers across all the platforms.
o Which free Android KeePass kdbx-compatible password database manager do you recommend?
o <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/yUrCZ2v0tmg>

This works well once we solved the cross-platform file-transfer problem:
o Do you know of a free Android SMBv2 (or SMBv3) client?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/tl3Q05QGyAw>

There are advantages and disadvantages to the "merge" model,
just as there were advantages and disadvantages to POP3/IMAP4 models.

Personally, I like the idea of the iCalendar software being able to import
and export at will so that there is no need for a "master" events.ics file.

In summary, the "merge" model has been working well so far
(but it's not yet tested on iOS, which is always the _last_ test to do).