A zero-day vulnerability in iCloud and iTunes on Windows PCs allowed hackers to install ransomware undetected.

[Arlen _G_ Holder]

Yet again, Apple proves to not have tested their software sufficiently...
o For years and years and years and years (just like Google proved)...

A zero-day vulnerability in iCloud and iTunes on Windows PCs allowed
hackers to install ransomware undetected.
"The ... vulnerability ...is a well-known bug that has previously been
identified by other vendors for more than 15 years."

o APPLE ZERO-DAY EXPLOITED IN NEW BITPAYMER CAMPAIGN
<https://blog.morphisec.com/apple-zero-day-exploited-in-bitpaymer-campaign>
"we have identified the abuse of an Apple zero-day vulnerability in the
Apple Software Update utility that comes packaged with iTunes for Windows.
The Windows exploit is important to note given Apple is sunsetting iTunes
for Macs with the release of macOS Catalina this week, while Windows users
will still need to rely on iTunes for the foreseeable future."

"In most cases, people are not aware that they need to uninstall the
Apple Software Update component separately when uninstalling iTunes.
Because of this, machines are left with the updater task installed and
working. We were surprised by the results of an investigation that showed
Apple Software Update is installed on a large number of computers across
different enterprises. Many of the computers uninstalled iTunes years ago
while the Apple Software Update component remains silently, un-updated, and
still working in the background. Following this discovery, we identified
the attack surface and the motivation of the attacker to choose this
process for evasion."

[nospam]

In article <qnqajc$54s$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen _G_ Holder
<_arlen....@halder.edu> wrote:

> Yet again, Google proves to not have tested their software sufficiently...

ftfy

<https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/4/20898460/android-security-vulnerabil
ity-project-zero-pixel-galaxy-huawei-xiaomi>
Security researchers with Google零 Project Zero team have disclosed
an Android vulnerability that appears to have been exploited in the
real world, ZDNet reports. The issue affects phones manufactured by
Samsung, including the Galaxy S7, S8, and S9, as well as the Huawei
P20, Pixel 1, and Pixel.

[Arlen _G_ Holder]

On Fri, 11 Oct 2019 12:31:34 -0400, nospam wrote:

> Security researchers with Google¹s Project Zero team have disclosed
> an Android vulnerability

Hi nospam,

Have you _ever_ posted a purposefully helpful post, in your life, nospam?
o Not even once?

You _always_ easily prove to own the 7 basic habits of Apple apologists
o Here <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/18ARDsEOPzM/veU8FwAjBQAJ>

A basic habit is to brazenly deflect facts which conflict with marketing messages
o By blaming everyone but Apple - for Apple's lack of QA testing & security flaws

Facts on iOS & Android security/vulnerabilities are covered in gory detail
o Here <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/MiZixhidmOs/ATC1S3s4FQAJ>

Back to the purposefully factual on-topic conversation on the potluck...
o Here are some pragmatic hints for Windows users to protect themselves

"Since the vulnerability was in the Bonjour component that iCloud and
iTunes for window rely on, itÿs possible that some users are still at risk
because Bonjour is not automatically removed after installation. Bonjour
needs to be uninstalled separately. PC users should ensure that theyÿve
updated to the latest versions of iCloud and iTunes to avoid any issues.
Mac users have not been impacted by this vulnerability."

See also 9to5Mac:
o Vulnerability in iTunes and iCloud allowed Windows PC ransomware infection
<https://9to5mac.com/2019/10/11/vulnerability-in-itunes/>
"A zero-day vulnerability in iTunes and iCloud apps on Windows PCs
enabled attackers to install ransomware without triggering antivirus
protections. "

There's a reason I've been logically assessing iTunes as an abomination,
for years, nospam, particularly the atrociously coded installer program...
"If youÿve ever run iTunes on your PC, even if you later removed it, you
could still be at risk. Thatÿs because the iTunes uninstaller doesnÿt
automatically remove Bonjour."

As most people know, the iTunes abomination is deprecated by Apple:
"Macs are not affected, no matter which version of macOS you are
running. Additionally, macOS Catalina replaces iTunes with a brand new
Music app."

For more information on replacing the iTunes abomination, see:
o What functionality does iTunes do for you that you'll need to replicate without iTunes?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/v2jT-sWIKR0/gA45WfO6AAAJ>

--
Bringing TRUTH to the Apple newsgroups... one fact at a time.

[Alan Baker]

On 2019-10-11 9:53 a.m., Arlen _G_ Holder wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Oct 2019 12:31:34 -0400, nospam wrote:
>
>> Security researchers with Google¹s Project Zero team have disclosed
>> an Android vulnerability
>
> Hi nospam,
>
> Have you _ever_ posted a purposefully helpful post, in your life, nospam?
> o Not even once?
>
> You _always_ easily prove to own the 7 basic habits of Apple apologists
> o Here <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/18ARDsEOPzM/veU8FwAjBQAJ>
>
> A basic habit is to brazenly deflect facts which conflict with marketing messages
> o By blaming everyone but Apple - for Apple's lack of QA testing & security flaws

Except that is nothing like what he did.

Why is posting about a zero day Android vulnerability less helpful, "Arlen"?

[Frank Slootweg]

Alan Baker <nu...@ness.biz> wrote:
> On 2019-10-11 9:53 a.m., Arlen _G_ Holder wrote:

[About nospam, who posted about a Google/Android vulnerability, in
(non-)response to Arlen's OP about an Apple/Windows vulnerability:]

> > A basic habit is to brazenly deflect facts which conflict with
> > marketing messages
> > o By blaming everyone but Apple - for Apple's lack of QA testing &
> > security flaws
>
> Except that is nothing like what he did.
>
> Why is posting about a zero day Android vulnerability less helpful, "Arlen"?

I'm the last person to 'defend' 'Arlen' and it *is* Arlen's typical MO
to troll about anything Apple.

But in *this* case, it *is* about Apple software on Windows and he
posted only to related groups, i.e. no trolling by crossposting to (for
example) comp.mobile.android.

So in *this* case, nospam's response was irrelevant/off-topic and
hence a troll in itself.

[Alan Baker]

misc.phone.mobile.iphone needs to know about it?

comp.sys.mac.system needs to know?

alt.comp.freeware?

[Arlen _G_ Holder]

On Fri, 11 Oct 2019 13:13:22 -0700, Alan Baker wrote:

> misc.phone.mobile.iphone needs to know about it?
>
> comp.sys.mac.system needs to know?
>
> alt.comp.freeware?

Hi Alan Baker,
Why don't you apologists understand things Apple didn't feed you?
o The iTunes freeware, on all platforms, is an abomination.

I've been proving, for years, iTunes freeware is an abomination
o It doesn't even matter the platform

The fact is that the iTunes freeware is called an abomination
o For very good factual reasons, Alan Baker.

Even Apple knows this - which is why they deprecated the abomination.

You apologists have apologized for the iTunes abomination since the start
o You apologized for it wiping out all our MP3 audio files
o You apologized for its idiotic installer
o You apologized for it being the canonical example of bloatware
o You apologized for it requiring the installation of Quicktime
o You apologized for its requirement of Bonjour
etc.

Each of these examples, I can find a reference backing up my claims
o Where you apologists have been making excuses for the abomination

All you apologists ever do - is make excuses for the iTunes abomination
o Where even Apple doesn't even want us to use it anymore

iTunes is that much of an abomination, even Apple dropped it.

I've been proving that it's an abomination for years, Alan Baker
o On all the common consumer platforms I own

The only ones who don't know iTunes is an abomination
o Are you apologists

Why?
o I don't know why.

I think it's perhaps you only know what Apple marketing feeds you.

For example, not only should Windows users wipe the iTunes abomination off
their system, but there's NOTHING that the iTunes abomination does (AFAIK),
that Windows users can't do WITHOUT the iTunes abomination, Alan Baker.

If you (or any of the apologists) think there's something functional
the iTunes abomination does on Windows that the Windows users can't get
with other freeware, just let us know.

I have plenty of iPods and iOS devices to test on Windows, Alan.
o I've been proving the iTunes abomination is an abomination for a reason.

--
Bringing adult logical thought processes to the Apple newsgroups.

[*Hemidactylus*]

Arlen _G_ Holder <_arlen....@halder.edu> wrote:

Could you timeline the course of your interaction with iPods and Windows to
determine at about what point you became obsessively unhinged? Was it a
gradual decline or all of a sudden? Kinda weird that software stalking
could be a thing, but here you are.

[*Hemidactylus*]

He has to self-justify his purchases of so many Windows machines on which
he installed iTunes and the abominable Apple Software Update component and
Bonjour snowmen and all the associated iDevices over the years spending
sleepless nights demonstrating their threats to world civilization as we
know it and warning the hapless victims because he is the Savior. Nobody
listened. The threat continued to grow. But nobody listened. He tested,
warned, and tested some more. Nobody listened. He posted links, listed the
enemies of the truth, but nobody ever listened. iTunes is his Manbearpig
and nobody takes him cereal.

Think of his opportunity costs. Such tragic personal sacrifice to no avail.
No fanfare. Just killfiled apathy or or the spectators bemusement that
eventually converges upon Schadenfreude.

[Arlen _G_ Holder]

On Fri, 11 Oct 2019 21:08:54 -0500, *Hemidactylus* wrote:

> He has to self-justify his purchases of so many Windows machines on which
> he installed iTunes and the abominable Apple Software Update component and
> Bonjour snowmen and all the associated iDevices over the years spending
> sleepless nights demonstrating their threats to world civilization as we
> know it and warning the hapless victims because he is the Savior. Nobody
> listened. The threat continued to grow. But nobody listened. He tested,
> warned, and tested some more. Nobody listened. He posted links, listed the
> enemies of the truth, but nobody ever listened. iTunes is his Manbearpig
> and nobody takes him cereal.
>
> Think of his opportunity costs. Such tragic personal sacrifice to no avail.
> No fanfare. Just killfiled apathy or or the spectators bemusement that
> eventually converges upon Schadenfreude.

Hi Hemidactylus,

If it seems that an adult with mere facts is the opposite of you apologists
o Then you're actually reading these threads correctly (kudos to you).

Here is a mere fact that adults handle differently than do apologists:
o Apple iTunes and iCloud for Windows 0-Day Exploited in Ransomware Attacks
<https://thehackernews.com/2019/10/apple-bonjour-ransomware.html>

How do you apologists handle a mere fact such as that fact?

Well .. thank you for proving yet another common habit of the Apologists.
o The Apologists have absolutely no adult response to mere facts

Such as this mere fact:
o A zero-day vulnerability in iCloud and iTunes on Windows PCs allowed

hackers to install ransomware undetected.

Most adults deal with mere facts by doing two simple things
a. They comprehend the mere fact
b. They form adult belief systems based on those mere facts

But not the child-like Apple Apologists.

The child-like Apologists instantly react to facts, with hateful vitriol.
o All aimed, literally, at the mere bearer of those adult facts

Why?
o I don't know why.

I think facts instantly DESTROY the wholly imaginary belief system
carefully built up by (admittedly clever) Apple Marketing.

Mere facts literally _scare_ the Apple apologists!

They act just like a fifth grader might when told Santa Claus isn't real.
o Apologists instantly and viciously attack the mere bearer of facts

It's one of the basic 7 habits all apologists have - in reaction to facts.
o What are the common well-verified psychological traits of the Apple Apologists on this newsgroup?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/18ARDsEOPzM/veU8FwAjBQAJ>

Back on topic, those child-like apologists, like Joerg Lorenz, will
appreciate that even his vaunted belief only in facts reported in the
German media can be trusted, are here:
o English:
<https://borncity.com/win/2019/10/11/itunes-and-icloud-for-windows-vulnerability-is-exploited/>
o German
<https://www.borncity.com/blog/2019/10/11/itunes-und-icloud-for-windows-schwachstelle-wird-ausgenutzt/>
"The vulnerable component is the Bonjour updater, a configuration-free
implementation of the network communication protocol that works in the
background and automates various low-level network tasks. This includes
automatically downloading updates for Apple software.

Since the Bonjour updater is installed as a separate program on the system,
Bonjour is not removed when iTunes and iCloud are uninstalled. Therefore,
this Bonjour updater is present on many Windows computers and has not been
updated after uninstalling iTunes or iCloud, but runs in the background."

--
Bringing TRUTH & LOGIC to the Apple newsgroups; one mere fact at a time.

[Arlen _G_ Holder]

On Fri, 11 Oct 2019 20:46:12 -0500, *Hemidactylus* wrote:

> Could you timeline the course of your interaction with iPods and Windows to
> determine at about what point you became obsessively unhinged? Was it a
> gradual decline or all of a sudden? Kinda weird that software stalking
> could be a thing, but here you are.

Hi Hemidactylus,

You childish Apple apologists can only respond to facts - as children do.

The iTunes abomination is characterized as an abomination for good reasons:
o 10 graphic examples of the abomination that is iTunes on Windows
<https://www.troyhunt.com/10-graphic-examples-of-abomination-that/>

I've owned Apple & Windows & Android products for years, Hemidactylus
o Prior to that, I was writing tutorials in tin/rn Masscomp/Solaris days.

At some point early on, I ran into the childish Apple Apologists
o Who can only believe in whatever Apple Marketing feeds them

That's why they own Apple products
o They literally _believe_ what Apple marketing has fed them!

Hence, I've dealt with you childish Apple Apologists for decades
o Where I've learned you deplore an openly powerful use model

Such as what we get WITHOUT installing the Orwellian iTunes abomination.

You're one of the score of Apple apologists, Hemidactylus,
o Hence, your posts are _never_ purposefully helpful

In fact, all you apologists ever do on these newsgroups, Hemidactylus
o Is make excuses for the Draconian use model of the iTunes abomination

For example, when I first owned iPods, I found you needed the iTunes
abomination in order to "initialize" the iPod - but then I found something
else - which was that the iTunes abomination was so badly written, that
only an utter moron would ever stoop to using it.
o The installer was an abomination
o The resulting mess of bloatware was an abomination
o The use model was an abomination
etc.

For example, the use model is so atrocious, that many people had all their
MP3 songs wiped off their iPods, Hemidactylus, with nary a warning.

The apologists say the warning that Apple doesn't like the way a normal
"library" would work was issued when you _installed_ the iTunes abomination
in the first place.

The apologists make excuses for the fact that the iTunes abomination
doesn't have the open freeware use model that you can have any MP3 song
anywhere you like anytime you want on any system you like with any owner of
that system or iPod, etc.

With SharePod, for example, now no longer available so only older versions
work sans the iTunes abomination, you didn't need to install ANYTHING on
Windows. Notice what I just said. Nothing.

SharePod, which I _still_ have on my iPods, works like an early version of
portable apps, where you simply plug in any iPod on the planet, no matter
who owns it, and you slide the MP3 songs onto any Windows computer on the
planet, no matter who owns it, and you maintain your MP3 "library" any way
you want to maintain it.

Not only does the iTunes abomination NOT allow this most obvious and most
powerful and most open-minded helpful use model, but the iTunes abomination
expressly attacks your MP3s when the user accidentally allows the settings
to do so - with nary a warning at the time that the iTunes abomination
destroys your entire MP3 collection.

For this reason and the other stated reasons proving the iTunes abomination
is Draconian restrictiveware, I learned that only an utter fool, like you
apologists, could like (and even love) such an Orwellian punitive use
model.

While there are ways to "initialize" an iPod sans the iTunes abomination,
the use model in those iPod days was simply to install the iTunes
abomination once - initialize the iPod - and then wipe that iTunes
abomination off the face of this earth since it does nothing that you can't
do more freely without it.

Even today, WITHOUT the iTunes abomination on Windows, a user can more
easily manage their iOS device as a read and write USB stick - which is
trivial to do - without the iTunes abomination on the Windows computer. (I
do it all the time, where you apologists don't even have that capability,
which is the most open and free there is - which is you simply slide movies
back and forth from any device on the planet (on any platform) to any other
device (including the iPods or iOS devices) you like ...

All without the Orwellian restrictiveness of the iTunes abomination.

Back on topic to help Windows users recover from the iTunes flaws...
o Here's what PC Magazine has to say about the recovery process today

o Flaw in iTunes for Windows Abused for Ransomware Attacks
<https://www.pcmag.com/news/371261/flaw-in-itunes-for-windows-abused-for-ransomware-attacks>
"According to Morphisec, the BitPaymer ransomware attackers have been
targeting companies by first delivering phishing emails that secretly
contain malware. The attackers will then conduct reconnaissance over the
target's corporate network before unleashing a ransomware on the victim's
computers. Other attacks have involved first guessing the passwords to
remote desktop computers at a victim organization to gain a foothold."

--
Who are the score of Apple apologists?
o Alan Baker <nu...@ness.biz>
o Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com>
o Andreas Rutishauser <and...@macandreas.ch>
o Beedle <Bee...@dont-email.me>
o B...@Onramp.net
o Chris <ithi...@gmail.com>
o Davoud <st...@sky.net>
o Elden <use...@moondog.org>
o Elfin <elfi...@gmail.com> (aka Lloyd, aka Lloyd Parsons)
o Hemidactylus <ecph...@allspamis.invalid>
o joe <no...@domain.invalid>
o Joerg Lorenz <hugy...@gmx.ch>
o Johan <JH...@nospam.invalid>
o Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com>
o Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
o Lloyd <elfi...@gmail.com> (aka "Elfin")
o Lloyd Parsons <lloy...@gmail.com> (aka "Elfin")
o Meanie <M...@gmail.com>
o nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> (bullshitter par excellence)
o Panthera Tigris Altaica <northe...@outlook.com>
o Sandman <m...@sandman.net> (hates any and all facts about Apple)
o Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>
o Snit <use...@gallopinginsanity.com> (aka Michael Glasser)
o Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net>
o Wade Garrett <wa...@cooler.net>
o Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com>
o et al.

[Arlen _G_ Holder]

On 12 Oct 2019 02:45:22 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:

> He's held an irrational seething jealous hatred for all things Apple for
> many years. He's also a very sick person mentally. He is extremely
> insecure about himself to the point of actively seeking out interactions
> with complete strangers in the Apple newsgroups where he inevitably
> turns on and belittles them in a desperate attempt to feel superior.
> It's a pathetic shit show, and it never ends. What a fucked up, unhappy
> existence. Just sad.

Hi Jolly Roger,

Notice that I'm the one REPORTING the facts, as they occur
o I've broken dozens of these facts - which apologists are ignorant of

The adults on this newsgroup will note the apologists child-like reaction
to mere facts that Apple Marketing did not feed them to believe.
o Why do apologists on this ng consistently hate facts about Apple products
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/6OecwGrr4FM/pxffpfr3CQAJ>

One of the 7 basic habits of Apple Apologists is shown here by Jolly Roger:
o Notice he reacts with instant hateful vitriol to the mere presence of facts.

JR doesn't even realize I love when he posts because he proves my point
o The Apple Apologists only have 7 basic reactions to mere facts

o Why do apologists turn into instant children in the face of mere facts
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/TZbkkqS3jv4/3_TTHgRpBwAJ>

One of those 7 basic habits of the Apple Apologists...
o ... is to viciously attack the bearer of mere facts - as he just did.

Moving forward, I can't yet find ANYTHING useful from Apple about this
o But the news otherwise, is flooded with helpful hints how to fix it

o AppleInsider: Apple's iTunes for Windows update closes off ransomware attack vector
<https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/10/11/apples-itunes-for-windows-update-closes-off-ransomware-attack-vector>
"The exploit essentially allowed malware to execute in Windows, looking
like it was a trusted application."

Notice that Apple hasn't sufficiently tested the iTunes abomination in 15
years, just like Google recently proved the iOS diarrhea couldn't possibly
_ever_ have been sufficiently tested (which Apple didn't, nay couldn't,
even deny). Apple merely complained about HOW Google said those facts.
"Users that have removed iTunes and iCloud from a Windows install aren't
necessarily out of the woods. Apple's network auto-discovery tool Bonjour
has to be uninstalled seperately from iTunes or iCloud for Windows,
potentially leaving that avenue open. There is no direct patch for Bonjour
without updating iTunes or iCloud for Windows."

--
Note: Jolly Roger intentionally removes his posts from the Google Archive
(so his are the only posts I quote in full - as I'm not afraid of archives)

From: Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com>
Newsgroups:
misc.phone.mobile.iphone,alt.comp.os.windows-10,comp.sys.mac.system,alt.comp.freeware
Subject: Re: A zero-day vulnerability in iCloud and iTunes on Windows PCs
allowed hackers to install ransomware undetected.

Date: 12 Oct 2019 02:45:22 GMT
Organization: People for the Ethical Treatment of Pirates
Message-ID: <h0ct22...@mid.individual.net>
References: <qnqajc$54s$1...@news.mixmin.net>
<111020191231341953%nos...@nospam.invalid> <qnqc2f$7pa$1...@news.mixmin.net>
<qnqgf7$1em7$2...@gioia.aioe.org> <qnqp1r...@ID-201911.user.individual.net>
<qnqnp0$hhp$3...@gioia.aioe.org> <qnqvos$i69$1...@news.mixmin.net>
<cZ-dnZXD1Ib5rTzA...@giganews.com>
X-Trace: individual.net vYOAl6oGK/yrvb8rwhGnKAvMRj3J2uJW/k2uu2PlZwZrv+PHrp
Cancel-Lock: sha1:S/H/9e6pgYmw2qdhGXelokstYlY=
X-No-Archive: Yes
MMail-Copies-To: nobody
X-Face: <removed>
User-Agent: slrn/1.0.1 (Darwin)

[Shadow]

On Fri, 11 Oct 2019 12:31:34 -0400, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

Thanks. My maid uses a cellphone with Android. I'll pass it on
to her.
PS OT in alt.comp.freeware. Please check
troll-header-follow-ups before replying. OT up.
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

[Frank Slootweg]

Yes, because you need iTunes to connect/use an iPhone with
(MS-)Windows.

> comp.sys.mac.system needs to know?

Yes:

"The Windows exploit is important to note given Apple is sunsetting
iTunes for Macs with the release of macOS Catalina this week, while
Windows users will still need to rely on iTunes for the foreseeable
future."

> alt.comp.freeware?

Of course! *Everything* should be crossposted to alt.comp.freeware!

But seriously, you're right, alt.comp.freeware is one of 'Arlen's
default groups, but it's irrelevant to the topic at hand.

> Followup-To: comp.sys.mac.system

Can you please stop doing that? It's rude to expect people to
subscribe to a group they have no interrest in, just to be able to
follow a - unneccesarily moved - part of the discussion.

'Followup-To:' had its use in the days when bandwidth or/and storage
were scarce or/and expensive. Those days have been gone since a decade
or longer.

Now, 'Followup-To:' is impolite/counter-productive in an OP and
plain rude in a response in an ongoing thread

[nospam]

In article <qnsl4g...@ID-201911.user.individual.net>, Frank Slootweg

<th...@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

> > >
> > >>
> > >> Why is posting about a zero day Android vulnerability less helpful,
> > >> "Arlen"?
> > >
> > > I'm the last person to 'defend' 'Arlen' and it *is* Arlen's typical MO
> > > to troll about anything Apple.
> > >
> > > But in *this* case, it *is* about Apple software on Windows and he
> > > posted only to related groups, i.e. no trolling by crossposting to (for
> > > example) comp.mobile.android.
> > >
> > > So in *this* case, nospam's response was irrelevant/off-topic and
> > > hence a troll in itself.
> >
> > misc.phone.mobile.iphone needs to know about it?
>
> Yes, because you need iTunes to connect/use an iPhone with
> (MS-)Windows.

nope. itunes is *not* required to use an iphone or any other ios device
on windows or macos.

ios devices can be used standalone, without any other computer at all.

itunes does offer additional functionality, but using it is *optional*.

> > comp.sys.mac.system needs to know?
>
> Yes:
>
> "The Windows exploit is important to note given Apple is sunsetting
> iTunes for Macs with the release of macOS Catalina this week, while
> Windows users will still need to rely on iTunes for the foreseeable
> future."

nope. itunes no longer exists in catalina and the exploit doesn't exist
for older versions of macos & itunes.

this issue *only* affects windows, and only those who have installed
itunes (again, it's optional).

> > alt.comp.freeware?
>
> Of course! *Everything* should be crossposted to alt.comp.freeware!
>
> But seriously, you're right, alt.comp.freeware is one of 'Arlen's
> default groups, but it's irrelevant to the topic at hand.

as it is for everything other than windows related newsgroups.

if he wanted to be helpful rather than troll, he would have included
the win7 newsgroup.

[Arlen _G_ Holder]

On Sat, 12 Oct 2019 11:03:36 -0400, nospam wrote:

> itunes does offer additional functionality, but using it is *optional*.

Hi nospam,

Thank you, yet again, for proving the point about you Apologists.

One the one hand, you _insist_ iTunes is used for certain iOS IPA backups
o And now, when it suits your purposes, all of a sudden, it's "optional".

There are so many instances, the intelligent reader will understand when I
simply summarize this one sentence from nospam, before going into detail:
o nospam
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/IeOlsAV4VCU/ceHmbY08M0EJ>
"what you can do is sync the ios device with your computer which copies
the apps to it and then sync the other ios devices, choosing which apps
to install (they don't have to be the same) but you refuse to use
itunes so that option is out."

As for iTunes being "optional", notice what nospam said in that thread:
o nospam
"use itunes so none of this nonsense is needed."

The fact is, when it suits nospam's purposes, his answer is "iTunes"...

Here, for example, on January 15th, nospam tells badgolferman to use itunes
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/MiZixhidmOs/22mB1uHCFQAJ>

o badgolferman to nospam:
"Please explain. iTunes has removed app management capability. I used to
be able to do that with iTunes but no more"
o nospam to badgolferman:
"there's a separate fork of itunes that retains that ability"
o badgolferman to nospam:
"Where does one find this separate fork of iTunes?"
o nospam to badgolferman:
"<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208079>
If you've already installed a newer version of iTunes, you
can download this version of iTunes for your Mac, PC (32-bit), or
PC (64-bit) and run the installer. After installation is complete,
you can continue to deploy apps with iTunes."
NOTE: nospam's only 'other' option is for badgolferman to be a 'developer'.

Here's another (there are plenty)...about a year ago, Oct. 18, 2018
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/56nEgAZIjGk/QoMXl4TFBAAJ>
o Ant to nospam:
"Does iTunes' backups and sync keep copies of these old installed apps? If
"so, then how do I restore that single app (not the whole iPhone!)?
o nospam to Ant
"if you kept an older copy, you can sync it to the phone"
o JF Mezei to Ant
"https://support.apple.com/en-ph/HT201593
If you made a backup of it using old iTunes, you can find that file and
manually move it to your iPhone."
o nospam to JF Mezei & Ant
"itunes used to sync apps downloaded on a device, but with app thinning,
it no longer does that. in its place, itunes can automatically download
apps on its own that are downloaded on a device, without the sync."
o Lewis to Ant
"If you want the CURRENT versions of all your apps, install iTunes"
etc.

And another (as I said, there are plenty), on July 21, 2018
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/Tufx3qIBZBw/TDZQfsILCAAJ>
o Wade Garrett to group:
" how can I get a copy onto my iPad Mini?"
o nospam to Wade Garrett:
"it would also be available in an itunes backup."
"anyone who claims it can't be done is ignorant or trolling"
o Jolly Roger to Wade Garrett:
"You can install and use iTunes version 12.6.4 to download iOS apps from
the App Store to your computer, and sync them with an iOS device you
want: <https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208079>
I keep a macOS install with this version of iTunes in a VMware Fusion VM
for app archival purposes. I have ever version of every app installed on
all of my iOS devices archived going back a few years."
o Jolly Roger to Wade Garrett:
"Here's a crash course in grabbing anything you want out of iTunes
backups: If you open iTunes Preferences > Devices, you can right-click any
of the backups listed there and choose Show in Finder to open a window
showing the backup folder to figure out which folder corresponds to the
backup you want. "
o Jolly Roger to Wade Garrett
"Install it on another machine that you aren't using for iTunes. Or hold
down Option while launching iTunes and create a new alternate library
just for this version."
etc.



For more, see also:
o Why do the Apple Apologists constantly send poor unsuspecting iOS users on wild goose chases?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/ynh0PE9lK_I/QOiGP4_SFQAJ>

--
Bringing adult thought processes to Apple ng's; one fact at a time.

[sms]

On 10/11/2019 11:35 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:

<snip>

> So in *this* case, nospam's response was irrelevant/off-topic and
> hence a troll in itself.

With proper filters, there can be an long thread between multiple trolls
without you ever seeing any of the posts, and you can miss the rare
instance where at least one of them posts something interesting,
relevant, coherent, and accurate.

Going back to Google Groups to read this thread, indeed you are correct.
"Arlen Holder" has posted something interesting, relevant, coherent, and
accurate.

It will be interesting to see the future of iTunes for Windows. Using an
iPhone with Windows, iTunes is required for transferring content between
a computer and the iPhone. Apple doesn't want to lose iPhone owners that
use Windows, which is the vast majority of iPhone owners.

The most likely scenario is that they'll retire iTunes for Windows and
come up with a Windows suite containing Apple Music, Apple TV, Apple
Podcasts, and Apple Books, and syncing capability, which does
essentially the same thing as iTunes does now, but in a new wrapper.

[Savageduck]

On Oct 14, 2019, sms wrote
(in article <qo1thu$7e3$1...@dont-email.me>):

> On 10/11/2019 11:35 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > So in *this* case, nospam's response was irrelevant/off-topic and
> > hence a troll in itself.
>
> With proper filters, there can be an long thread between multiple trolls
> without you ever seeing any of the posts, and you can miss the rare
> instance where at least one of them posts something interesting,
> relevant, coherent, and accurate.

The only time I ever see any of “Arlen Holder’s” psychotic musings
these days is whenever others reflexively respond to him.

>
>
> Going back to Google Groups to read this thread, indeed you are correct.
> "Arlen Holder" has posted something interesting, relevant, coherent, and
> accurate.

The sublime quality of his obsession makes all of his posts irrelevant,
incoherent, uninteresting (to other than mental health professionals), and
astonishingly inaccurate.The result is, I care not a whit what he rants
about, and wish that others would restrain themselves from responding to him.

...especially in any of the Apple NGs, or r.p.d.

--
Regards,
Savageduck

[Frank Slootweg]

sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> On 10/11/2019 11:35 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > So in *this* case, nospam's response was irrelevant/off-topic and
> > hence a troll in itself.
>
> With proper filters, there can be an long thread between multiple trolls
> without you ever seeing any of the posts, and you can miss the rare
> instance where at least one of them posts something interesting,
> relevant, coherent, and accurate.
>
> Going back to Google Groups to read this thread, indeed you are correct.
> "Arlen Holder" has posted something interesting, relevant, coherent, and
> accurate.

FWIW, in my newsreader ('tin'), I can see killfiled articles if and
when I want to. They're just not shown in the normal view(s). But for
example with 'l' I can list the 'tree' of a/the thread and that will
list all articles in the thread, including killed ones and I can then
open/view any article I want. Likewise if I am viewing an article which
is apparently a response to a killed article, I can view the killed
article with 'u' (up the thread, show paarent of current article). So I
do not have to resort to things like Google Groups.

> It will be interesting to see the future of iTunes for Windows. Using an
> iPhone with Windows, iTunes is required for transferring content between
> a computer and the iPhone. Apple doesn't want to lose iPhone owners that
> use Windows, which is the vast majority of iPhone owners.
>
> The most likely scenario is that they'll retire iTunes for Windows and
> come up with a Windows suite containing Apple Music, Apple TV, Apple
> Podcasts, and Apple Books, and syncing capability, which does
> essentially the same thing as iTunes does now, but in a new wrapper.

Well, sofar Apple has done a great job of alienating their customers
with Windows computers, so I'm not holding my breath. But one can always
hope, can't one!? :-)

[Lewis]

In message <qo1thu$7e3$1...@dont-email.me> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> iTunes is required for transferring content between a computer and the
> iPhone.

False.

--
This man was clearly mad, but at the heart of his madness was a cold,
dreadful sanity, a core of pure interstellar ice in the centre of the
furnace. She'd thought him weak under a thin shell of strength, but it
went a lot further than that. Somewhere deep inside his mind, somewhere
beyond the event horizon of rationality, the sheer pressure of insanity
had hammered his madness into something harder than diamond. --Wyrd
Sisters

[nospam]

In article <qo1thu$7e3$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> It will be interesting to see the future of iTunes for Windows. Using an
> iPhone with Windows, iTunes is required for transferring content between
> a computer and the iPhone.

absolutely false.

[sms]

On 10/14/2019 8:54 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:

<snip>

> Well, sofar Apple has done a great job of alienating their customers
> with Windows computers, so I'm not holding my breath. But one can always
> hope, can't one!? :-)

I don't agree with that premise at all.

In fact I'd say that if anything they've alienated customers more with Macs.

Dell, Lenovo, and HP are all growing their PC market share while Apple's
market share is falling
<https://www.macrumors.com/2019/10/10/mac-shipments-q3-2019-gartner/>.

Catalyst may portend a new era for Macs. Once you port iOS apps to OS-X
then a Macbook with Apple Pencil support makes perfect sense. This would
be an answer to the the Microsoft Surface Pro and all the other Windows
laptops with touch screens and active stylus support. Apple has been
adamant that a touch-screen Macbook makes no sense, but they can now
legitimately claim that a Macbook with Apple Pencil support makes
perfect sense.

[nospam]

In article <qo2jtf$oap$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

>
> Dell, Lenovo, and HP are all growing their PC market share while Apple's
> market share is falling
>
> <https://www.macrumors.com/2019/10/10/mac-shipments-q3-2019-gartner/>.

that's only *one* quarter, not a trend, and market share doesn't matter
nor does apple chase it.

> Catalyst may portend a new era for Macs.

no it doesn't. it simply gives developers more options, particularly
ios developers who have no mac experience.

> Once you port iOS apps to OS-X
> then a Macbook with Apple Pencil support makes perfect sense.

it does not.

> This would
> be an answer to the the Microsoft Surface Pro and all the other Windows
> laptops with touch screens and active stylus support.

the ones that don't sell that well and of those, only a minority use
the stylus, you mean?

> Apple has been
> adamant that a touch-screen Macbook makes no sense, but they can now
> legitimately claim that a Macbook with Apple Pencil support makes
> perfect sense.

no.

for one, the ui paradigms are different.

[Arlen _G_ Holder]

On Mon, 14 Oct 2019 06:53:28 -0700, Savageduck wrote:

> The sublime quality of his obsession makes all of his posts irrelevant,

Hi Savageduck,

Adults own a belief system which is not only _based_ on facts
o But adult belief systems are constantly modified by changes in facts.

That requires keeping up to date, Savageduck
o On facts

Yes. Facts.
o Facts about Apple & Windows products in this case, Savageduck.

Facts.

Facts such as are reported in this very thread, Savageduck.
o Facts you seem to state you wish to remain ignorant of, Savageduck.

I love how the list of apologists _always_ prove to hate facts
o They literally _hide_ from facts.

Why?
o I don't know why.

I think it could be because facts conflict with what they believe.
o They seem to believe only in Apple Marketing Messages

Hence, it could be simply that facts scare apologists like Savageduck.
o Facts tend to instantly DESTROY their imaginary belief systems

Luckily, there are only about a score of such apologists on this ng.
o All of whom seem to literally be AFRAID of mere facts.

The score of Apple Apologists who add zero value to any thread:

Notice that each of those in the above list
o Added exactly _zero_ value to the technical topic in this thread.

Every single one of them.
o Prove that a fact, with every post.

Just watch.

[Arlen _G_ Holder]

On Mon, 14 Oct 2019 12:40:09 -0400, nospam wrote:

>> It will be interesting to see the future of iTunes for Windows. Using an
>> iPhone with Windows, iTunes is required for transferring content between
>> a computer and the iPhone.
>
> absolutely false.

For more information on replacing the iTunes freeware on Windows see:

[Arlen _G_ Holder]

On Mon, 14 Oct 2019 16:01:37 -0000 (UTC), Lewis wrote:

>> iTunes is required for transferring content between a computer and the
>> iPhone.
>
> False.

For what the Windows 7 folks claim they need iTunes for, see this thread:
<https://alt.windows7.general.narkive.com/UNLrnFBQ/a-zero-day-vulnerability-in-icloud-and-itunes-on-windows-pcs-allowed-hackers-to-install-ransomware>

[nospam]

In article <qo2nqi$l69$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen _G_ Holder

<_arlen....@halder.edu> wrote:

>
> For what the Windows 7 folks claim they need iTunes for, see this thread:

that thread is just you and *one* other person, not 'windows 7 folks'.

[nospam]

In article <qo2nm1$kov$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen _G_ Holder

<_arlen....@halder.edu> wrote:

>
> >> It will be interesting to see the future of iTunes for Windows. Using an
> >> iPhone with Windows, iTunes is required for transferring content between
> >> a computer and the iPhone.
> >
> > absolutely false.
>
> For more information on replacing the iTunes freeware on Windows see:

no need to replace anything. itunes is one of many ways to move content
between an ios device and a computer. it is in no way 'required' to do
so.

[Alan Baker]

Sorry, but I have no option BUT to use "Followup-To" as my usenet server
rejects posts with as many groups as Arlen typically uses that don't
have it set.

[Frank Slootweg]

Alan Baker <nu...@ness.biz> wrote:
[...]

> Sorry, but I have no option BUT to use "Followup-To" as my usenet server
> rejects posts with as many groups as Arlen typically uses that don't
> have it set.

Thanks for the feedback. Understood. No worries.

In my case, only my newsreader (tin) barfs and allows me to ignore its
warning.

[None]

Love it, a Usenet server that rejects the king troll’s posts.

[Arlen Holder]

UPDATE:
o Key lessons learned using iTunes on Windows today...
"If I ever update iPadOS again, I'll do it over the air,
not via the [Windows] computer [with iTunes]!"

A recent related discussion today came about on the iOS newsgroups:
o iOS v12.4.5 & iPadOS v13.3.1 are out!
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/N2mr-p87bAw/DhK0P35nEgAJ>
"Well, I tried to update my iPad Pro to iPadOS 13.3.1, and it's failed.
I did it via iTunes on my PC"

Where Apple purportedly walked that Windows/iOS user through wiping out an
errant iTunes installation, and, reputedly, having that hapless iOS user
install iTunes from the Windows Store.

Recliner:
"iTunes doesn't detect the iPad."
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/N2mr-p87bAw/KyEQJGdoEgAJ>

Recliner:
"I've tried two different cables, using different USB sockets on the PC"
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/N2mr-p87bAw/AfuO7vhsEgAJ>

Recliner:
"Now sorted, after a long phone session with senior Apple support and
linking to me PC. Had to completely remove iTunes from my PC (which
meant removing about six separate products), install it again from the
Microsoft store, update a device driver, and completely restore the
iPad Pro from scratch, going back to the initial Hello screen.

I've learned my lesson: in future, if I ever update iPadOS again, I'll
do it over the air, not via the computer! "

Recliner:
"Apple Support specifically got me to go through the slow, complex process
of removing all the components that Apple had installed when I downloaded
from the Apple web site, and replace them with the single, much cleaner
install from the Microsoft store. And that version does indeed work
better. Perhaps Microsoft actually does know more about installing software
on a Windows computer than Apple does? Who'd have imagined it?"
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/N2mr-p87bAw/t2oZdeN-EgAJ>

See also:
o *The rise and fall of iTunes, Apple's most hated app*
<https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/3/18650571/apple-itunes-rip-discontinued-macos-10-15-ipod-store-digital-music-wwdc-2019>

"Windows 10 users would search for iTunes so much in the Windows Store
that Microsoft eventually convinced Apple to bring it to the store last
year. Over the years, however, Apple¢s original philosophy of providing a
one-stop shop for all your media became iTunes¢ greatest undoing by
saddling the app with more and more baggage that¢s eaten away at its
usability. The world has moved on as ubiquitous connectivity, cloud
storage, and streaming media became the norm. iTunes is still around as a
legacy app for those who need it. But for everyone else, iTunes is now
officially a thing of the past."

"Few will mourn the passing of the bloated mess that iTunes has become."
--
At times there is more functionality & safety without apps, than with them.

[Arlen Trolder]

Arlen Holder wrote:

::translated::

"I have not received any feeding from this thread for three long months.
I will now bump this thread in an attempt to restart the feeding."

[Arlen Holder]

On Thu, 30 Jan 2020 15:35:23 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Trolder wrote:

> "I have not received any feeding from this thread for three long months.
> I will now bump this thread in an attempt to restart the feeding."

Notice how apologists' minds work exactly like the mind of a small child.
o They prove this to be a fact every time they post (see above).

I've been studying these apologists for decades...
o Because apologists always prove to be quite unlike normal adults.

FACTS:
1. I have been updating threads for years on most consumer OS newsgroups:
<http://tinyurl.com/alt-os-linux>
<http://tinyurl.com/comp-mobile-android>
<http://tinyurl.com/comp-mobile-ipad>
<http://alt.comp.os.windows-10.narkive.com>
<http://tinyurl.com/misc-phone-mobile-iphone>
<http://tinyurl.com/windowsxp-general>
etc.

2. In many of those threads, for the permanent record, I update them with:
"SOLVED", or,
"UPDATED".

On Apple newsgroups, apologists complain about updating facts.
o Brazenly calling facts apologists don't like, "trolls" or "lies".

Sans ever bringing up a _single_ fact supporting their position.
o Because their position is supported by exactly zero (0) facts.

3. On the adult OS newsgroups, most people act differently than that.

For example, adults didn't complain that these facts were posted:
o *Microsoft Leaves 250M Customer Service Records Open to the Web*
<https://alt.comp.os.windows-10.narkive.com/refiaxuA/microsoft-leaves-250m-customer-service-records-open-to-the-web>
*Only on the Apple newsgroups would that simple fact be called a "lie".*

And, for example, Android adults didn't complain about facts here:
o *New 0-Day Flaw Affecting Most Android Phones Being Exploited in the Wild*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/ej_kDTKNc2w/oR2DWXyVAAAJ>
*Only on Apple newsgroups is anyone posting facts called a "Liar".

And, for example, Linux adults didn't complain about these facts:
o *Firefox 72.0.1 fixes a security vulnerability that is actively exploited*
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.os.linux/gz_Q2x9uawA>
*Only on Apple newsgroups are people posting mere facts called "Trolls".

What's interesting is that I post helpful tutorials on iOS newsgroups, and
yet, the apologists are apparently completely _immune_ to that simple fact.
o *How to easily archive your iOS device as a free USB stick*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/fWmt_WBbNao/t5PfoKEHEwAJ>
o *Upcoming $330 7th Generation 2019 iPad to retain the headphone jack!*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/Kjg56ZSslWM/N88lPGJKCQAJ>
o *Save this to connect your mobile device to your home WiFi far away*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/BGpGTxxKYSI/GSnntXNXAgAJ>
etc.

In summary, apologists consider all facts they don't like, to be lies.
o And apologists consider anyone who bears facts they don't like, a troll.

Why?

I don't know why.

After studying apologists, I think it's simply that facts are a threat.
* *Facts are always a threat to completely imaginary belief systems.*

Apologists _hate_ facts that DESTROY their imaginary belief systems.
o Much like a fifth grader may hate the fact Santa Claus doesn't exist.

Apologists respond to facts in 7 predicable ways, none of which are adult.

o What are the common well-verified psychological traits of the Apple Apologists on this newsgroup?

<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.ipad/2BJ0i7LtngQ>

--
Bringing TRUTH to the Apple newsgroups, one simple fact at a time.