WinXP user bought first desktop Win7 -> Win10 Pro

[John & Jane Doe]

How does a long time WinXP user clean up a Win7 desktop with Win10
installed without losing Windows 10 in the process?

My main question right now is how to proceed to do two things:
1. Wipe out everything not needed
2. But keep the Win10 OS intact

I am a long time Windows XP user who just bought an HP desktop at a yard
sale that has stickers for Windows 7 but that has Windows 10 installed
(complete details to be placed in a followup post).

The desktop came with a single user with admin privileges so I created a
new user since the original user is already using up all but 380GB of the
930GB HDD.

If I had Windows 10 disks, I would start with a fresh format and install of
Windows 10 - but I don't have any media whatsoever and the original media
would have been Windows 7 anyway.

Do I need to save some kind of serial number before I format and start
over?

My main question right now is how to proceed to do two things:
1. Wipe out everything not needed
2. But keep the Win10 OS intact

[John & Jane Doe]

> My main question right now is how to proceed to do two things:
> 1. Wipe out everything not needed
> 2. But keep the Win10 OS intact

Here is a picture of the new (to me) Windows 10 desktop.
https://s27.postimg.org/udef4ncoz/image.gif

This post is just to explain the specifications as I know them to be.

Windows 10 Pro version 1511
(but the sticker says Windows 7 Home Premium OA 64 bit)

HP Pavilion Model P6230Y. AMD Phenom II 810. 16GB RAM, 930GB HDD
ATI Radeon HD 4200

There is only one user but the 930GB HDD only has 380GB space left.
I don't want any of her stuff but I want to be careful what I delete.

What I really want to do is wipe everything out and start over but I don't
want to lose the existing Windows 10 license.

At the moment, I created a new user (which you see in the photo as it took
a long time on the first login for some reason).

The only odd thing, so far, is that I can't find the Wi-Fi settings because
this computer was apparently always on the Ethernet whereas for me it will
likely be on Wi-Fi so it hasn't been on the net yet.

Since I loved Windows XP, and I since skipped Windows 7, 8, and 9 (or
whatever the versions were), I will have a steep learning curve (I can tell
already by clicking about).

The main question right now is how best to proceed to get rid of all the
stuff from the previous owner WITHOUT destroying the Windows 10 license?

[Paul]

Your computer has a motherboard, with what is
effectively a serial number (to make this explanation
a bit simpler to understand).

When the previous user took advantage of the free upgrade
offer, to go from a copy of Windows 7 to Windows 10, the
computer was registered on a Microsoft server. A "digital
entitlement" entry was created.

At any future time, if the Win10 OS is clean installed using
a downloadable DVD (available for free from Microsoft), the
instant the machine gets on the network, it sends its
serial number to the server at Microsoft. The server at
Microsoft says "oh, I've seen this machine before, and
you got the free upgrade from me". And your OS is
then activated again. So the fact the machine was
activated the first time, is remembered on the server end.
Any future install of Win10, should re-activate, based
on the physical evidence presented (serial number).

When does this stop working ? If you change too much hardware
inside the computer. If you burned out the motherboard and
had to replace it, the "digital entitlement" might be ruined
by that. But otherwise, you should be able to clean
install without an issue.

*******

The next topic is backups. Do you use backup software ?
Do you have an external drive to store backups ?

Maintaining a computer is easy, if you have backup
images. If you make a mistake, you can restore from
backup. The size of the image, is only as large as
the size of the file set. So if you had a 2TB drive
with 300GB of files, the backup takes 300GB of space.
In that example, you'd need a 500GB drive for the
external storage media, as a convenient minimum size.

Free backup software is available. When prompted, you
do want to make the emergency boot CD, which helps
if you entirely ruin the OS on the hard drive :-)

http://www.macrium.com/reflectfree.asp

Yes, the CNET download is clean... The emergency
boot CD can use one of four WinPE versions, and
WinPE5 or WinPE10 should be good for most purposes.

*******

You can download a 15063 Creator DVD (the latest version)
and do a clean install if you want. There will be no
memory of Windows 7 at all.

As it stands now, the machine could have a recovery partition
(12 to 15GB) with a clean copy of Windows 7 with drivers in it.
With the press of the right F-key at startup, you may be able
to re-install Windows 7 again if the need arises. If you
"blast" all the partitions on the drive during your Windows
clean install adventure, that copy of Windows 7 would be lost.
Just don't delete all the structure on the disk, if you
want to keep materials like that for later.

To learn more about your install, there are some
commands you can execute.

This one works as an ordinary user.

winver

The following one, you might want to run a Command Prompt
with Run As Administrator. This was easy on the older
versions of Win10, as right-clicking start had
the Administrator Command Prompt in it. In 15063,
there is a setting in the Setting gear wheel, to
put that item back in the menu. Alternately, type
"cmd" into Cortana search hole, right-click the
top entry returned, and select "Run As Administrator"
to launch an administrator command prompt. Then...

slmgr /dlv

And that will show more details.

That shows the current activation/licensing info. The
license key is generic (when a Digital Entitlement
has been used and not a "real" purchased key), so for
the most part, the license key is useless in such
cases.

This picture shows my output on a Win10 Pro x64 install.
Likely a "digital entitlement" as I would not be buying
the retail version.

https://s13.postimg.org/ivl5bjcxz/whats_my_OS.gif

HTH,
Paul

[GlowingBlueMist]

One way to create the download media is the link found at;
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10

You should be able to either download the installer on a flash drive or
download the ISO file and burn a DVD.

A fresh install is nothing more than booting from your new downloaded
media and following the menu's.

If one just wanted to update but not start windows 10 from scratch then
you would boot the PC AS IS with the new media unplugged or not in the
drive. Then insert the downloaded media and go to that drive and run
the setup program.

Booting the setup program is for a totally fresh install while running
the setup after Windows 10 has booted is how one could update an
existing copy of Windows 10.

If my memory is still working both should give you the option of keeping
everything the user left behind or erasing things and just updating
windows. If I'm wrong I'm sure others here will jump in and set things
straight for you. Just give it an hour to see what the other have to
say before upgrading things.

[Yeff]

On Fri, 5 May 2017 00:50:14 -0000 (UTC), John & Jane Doe wrote:

> The main question right now is how best to proceed to get rid of all the
> stuff from the previous owner WITHOUT destroying the Windows 10 license?

If the Win10 OS is a legitimate install it should already be activated
with a digital license linked to the Microsoft account you're using.
That means you can wipe the drive, install a fresh copy of Windows 10,
and it should automatically activate once you verify yourself as a user.
Still, if you want to be safe, use the Magical Jelly Bean Keyfinder:

Magical Jelly Bean Keyfinder
<https://www.magicaljellybean.com/keyfinder/>

This will get you both the installed OS product ID as well as the 25
character CD Key. The CD Key is what you really want. You can use the
program to save the information to a text file or print it out. Or
both.

Next you'll want to get the Windows 10 media. Use the Media Creation
Tool to make a bootable DVD or USB flash drive. You can also use the
tool to just download the Win10 .iso and install from there:

<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10>

Have the new Win10 install wipe everything from the drive before
installation and use the saved CD Key to activate it if you need to.

--

-Jeff B.
zoo...@fastmail.fm

"Excuse me.
I don't mean to impose,
but I am the Ocean."

~ The Salton Sea

[knuttle]

On 5/4/2017 8:50 PM, John & Jane Doe wrote:
> only one user but the 930GB HDD only has 380GB space left.
> I don't want any of her stuff but I want to be careful what I delete.

I believe you can check to is if you copy has been activated

Open Start > Settings app > Update and Security.

Select Activation, in the left panel. Here you will see the activation
status.

I think if I were in this situation, the first thing I would do is to
deleted all folders in the My Documents folder. This is all of the
data put on by the previous user. Next I would look in the primary C:
folder and remove any user data folders. (I have one called personal
data, that has folders for software, pictures, etc.)

I would then delete all files in the Temp folders. There is one in the
Windows folder, and in each of the folders in C:/User/Username/Appdata.

I would then from the C: properties window run a disk Cleanup, followed
by the Check. I would then do a defrag

This should free up a significant amount of disk space and you should
have an organized error free disk.

I would then upgrade to Creator Edition. This will check your windows
10 activation status. If you have installation problems you can delete
the files in SoftareDistribution in the Windows directory. You may not
be able to delete all of the files in the Datastore folder, but the
system will make things right.

If all of this happens with no errors, I would run the computer for a
period to ensure everything is working correctly then go ahead and do a
clean install of the current Windows 10.

While this will take a little longer that doing a clean install first,
in this way you will know the computer is working, without the
consideration of any problems in the clean install with vendor specific
drivers, etc.

You drivers for the HP should be on a drive called D:(Recovery)

[John & Jane Doe]

Paul wrote in <news:oeglk9$e64$1...@dont-email.me>:

> Your computer has a motherboard, with what is
> effectively a serial number (to make this explanation
> a bit simpler to understand).

I opened it up to look for the Wi-Fi card so here is a picture of that
motherboard.
https://s10.postimg.org/o85y00kmh/hp_mb.gif

> When the previous user took advantage of the free upgrade
> offer, to go from a copy of Windows 7 to Windows 10, the
> computer was registered on a Microsoft server. A "digital
> entitlement" entry was created.

Sounds good so far.
The Windows 10 Pro seems to be working so Windows 7 seems to be gone.
https://s27.postimg.org/udef4ncoz/image.gif

> At any future time, if the Win10 OS is clean installed using
> a downloadable DVD (available for free from Microsoft), the
> instant the machine gets on the network, it sends its
> serial number to the server at Microsoft.

OK. So far it isn't yet on the network because all it seems to have is the
ethernet cable and I haven't hooked it to my router yet (because it's in a
different room).

Here is a picture of the back of the computer:
https://s12.postimg.org/5fyg71u8t/hp_back.gif

> The server at
> Microsoft says "oh, I've seen this machine before, and
> you got the free upgrade from me". And your OS is
> then activated again. So the fact the machine was
> activated the first time, is remembered on the server end.
> Any future install of Win10, should re-activate, based
> on the physical evidence presented (serial number).

This seems perfect! What you're saying, I think, is that no matter what I
do to the "current" Windows 10 Pro, it can be reinstalled.

I went to the Cortana thing which replaced the start menu and looked up
"system" which told me that the actual version of Windows is:
Microsoft Windows 10 Pro version 1.0.10586 Build 10586

The inside of the case had a blue round stamp saying it was from 2009, so
that's when the computer was probably built.

The system stuff told me it's 2.6GHz 4 cores with 16GB of RAM.

> When does this stop working ? If you change too much hardware
> inside the computer. If you burned out the motherboard and
> had to replace it, the "digital entitlement" might be ruined
> by that. But otherwise, you should be able to clean
> install without an issue.

Good. The Windows 10 Pro is working for sure so that must mean I'm ok.

The only hardware I may add is that it does not seem to have a WiFi card,
or, if it does, I can't find it in the software or in the hardware.

I'll take the backup topic separately in another post.
Thank you.

[John & Jane Doe]

Paul wrote in <news:oeglk9$e64$1...@dont-email.me>:

> The next topic is backups. Do you use backup software ?
> Do you have an external drive to store backups ?

I'm not really worried about backups from the old machine to the new
machine.

All my software was downloaded off the net except for Microsoft Office
which I just checked on WinXP is MS Office 2007.

My data is just my email which is in Google Gmail so it's still there, and
my pictures and some other files but they're all easy to back up onto a
flash drive so I'm not at all worried about the data that is on the old
WinXP machine which must be 15 years old or something like that.

> Maintaining a computer is easy, if you have backup
> images. If you make a mistake, you can restore from
> backup. The size of the image, is only as large as
> the size of the file set. So if you had a 2TB drive
> with 300GB of files, the backup takes 300GB of space.

I'm on the old Windows XP machine which has a Pentium M 1.7GHz processor
with 1GB of RAM and a 200GB HDD with almost nothing left.

I right clicked on the one directory I care about if I was going to bring
it over from WinXP Home to Win10 Pro where it finally stopped counting at
less than 100 GB(50K files).
https://s4.postimg.org/xqc1eu6xp/winxp_data.gif

> In that example, you'd need a 500GB drive for the
> external storage media, as a convenient minimum size.
>
> Free backup software is available. When prompted, you
> do want to make the emergency boot CD, which helps
> if you entirely ruin the OS on the hard drive :-)
>
> http://www.macrium.com/reflectfree.asp

There are many times in the past when I could have used that!

But now, I'm probably not going to keep the old Windows XP machine, even
though I love the ease of use of Windows XP.

The 100GB of data I can move over at any time but most of it is almost
certainly garbage anyway so I'm not worried about any old data.

I have always been good about keeping my data all in one place so that is
not a problem. I've also always been good about saving all my downloaded
programs that I use to install software I care about, so that's not a
problem either.

The problem really is just how to best start fresh on Windows 10, which
seems, already, to be extremely different than Windows XP (and a lot harder
to figure out).

>
> Yes, the CNET download is clean... The emergency
> boot CD can use one of four WinPE versions, and
> WinPE5 or WinPE10 should be good for most purposes.
>
> *******

Just in case I need it for Windows 10, I will save that installer in my
location that I save all my installers.

Thank you.

[Paul]

John & Jane Doe wrote:

>

> Just in case I need it for Windows 10, I will save that installer in my
> location that I save all my installers.
>
> Thank you.

The CNET installer is a stub, of a few megabytes.
It's not the actual software.

When you run the stub, it downloads two files. The
40MB main installer. And a WinPE kit. The WinPE kit
can be 500MB in size. It is used to make the emergency
boot CD.

After the stub is finished, it might leave the two
files in the folder it was working in. Those are the
ones I keep for transport to other computers.

Then, when I want to install locally (network or not),
just those two files will do it.

The second downloaded file might be 500MB, but it
can be compressed as part of the post-processing.
It's a bit confusing as to how much downloading
it actually did.

If you're in a situation where you know you will not
need an emergency boot CD (or ISO file), then just
the 40MB portion need be downloaded. For people on
dialup, to me it's more important that they
make some kind of backup. And ignore the emergency
boot CD issue for another day. Someone on dialup will
go through enough torture, just getting the 40MB part...
For someone with broadband, you want both files.

*******

Most of the commercial tools will not back up a damaged
file system. Even when they claim to have a sector-by-sector
option, it's hard to prove the option to do it that
way, exists and works right.

For situations like that, a tool that can be used is
ddrescue. So while Macrium covers many of the things
you may need to do in a given day, it doesn't handle
every corner case well.
ddrescue First ddrescue Second
Sick drive with ----------------> Disk -----------> Disk
damaged file ("good (Run CHKDSK
system copy") on this disk)

That's the two-spare-disk method for attempting
repair or data recovery on a sick source disk.
Repair operations are done on the second disk,
to keep the First Disk safe. If the CHKDSK fails
and ruins the data on the Second Disk, you
clone over from the First Disk. This is why
I keep two spare disks here.

When a disk is sick, it might not survive more
than one clone operation. The First Disk is then
your golden reference, after the copy is made.
You're no longer dependent at that point, on
the sick disk.

DDrescue is multi-pass. It gets the easy sectors
on the first pass. On subsequent passes, it fills
in the holes. If the disk only manages to live for
two runs of ddrescue, then most likely you got
most of the sectors. And only the "bad patch"
is missing from the copy made.

As far as the spare drives go, they should be cleaned
before usage. Using "diskpart" in Windows, you
"Select Disk" and pick the disk you want to work
on. Then "Clean All" zeros the entire disk. After
that, the disk is ready as a destination for ddrescue.
Zeroing the drive, avoids confusion about where the
files on the disk came from :-) You then know it
was absolutely clean, before any other work was done.

So those are the things you do, when Macrium no
longer wants to work on stuff.

Paul

[John & Jane Doe]

knuttle wrote in <news:oegn4e$iqr$1...@dont-email.me>:

> I believe you can check to is if you copy has been activated
>
> Open Start > Settings app > Update and Security.
>
> Select Activation, in the left panel. Here you will see the activation
> status.

The Windows 10 Pro desktop is not yet on the network since it doesn't seem
to have a wifi card and it is no where near the router, so here is a
picture of what happened.

Start > Settings app > Update & Security > Activation
https://s7.postimg.org/ggvp86w2j/hp_activation.gif

Here is a closeup picture:
https://s9.postimg.org/hxyvi80qn/win10pro_activation.gif

It says Edition = Windows 10 Pro
Activation = Windows is activated
Product Key = Windows 10 on this device is activated with a digital
entitlement

Can I assume, even though this isn't on the network yet, that it is
activated?

[Lucifer Morningstar]

On Fri, 5 May 2017 00:35:32 -0000 (UTC), John & Jane Doe
<johnNj...@is.invalid> wrote:

>How does a long time WinXP user clean up a Win7 desktop with Win10
>installed without losing Windows 10 in the process?
>
>My main question right now is how to proceed to do two things:
>1. Wipe out everything not needed
>2. But keep the Win10 OS intact
>
>I am a long time Windows XP user who just bought an HP desktop at a yard
>sale that has stickers for Windows 7 but that has Windows 10 installed
>(complete details to be placed in a followup post).
>
>The desktop came with a single user with admin privileges so I created a
>new user since the original user is already using up all but 380GB of the
>930GB HDD.
>
>If I had Windows 10 disks, I would start with a fresh format and install of
>Windows 10 - but I don't have any media whatsoever and the original media
>would have been Windows 7 anyway.
>
>Do I need to save some kind of serial number before I format and start
>over?

Can you use the Windows 7 key?

[John & Jane Doe]

Yeff wrote in <news:1bpqdvubthl7g$.d...@lemming.militia.com>:

> If the Win10 OS is a legitimate install it should already be activated
> with a digital license linked to the Microsoft account you're using.

I think the Windows 10 Pro is already activated based on this:

Start > Settings app > Update & Security > Activation
https://s7.postimg.org/ggvp86w2j/hp_activation.gif

> That means you can wipe the drive, install a fresh copy of Windows 10,
> and it should automatically activate once you verify yourself as a user.

This "verify yourself as a user" part confuses me because the original
person, let's call her "Kat", is the original person but I don't have her
information that she gave to Microsoft when installing Windows 10 Pro.

Do I need that name information she gave to Microsoft?

> Still, if you want to be safe, use the Magical Jelly Bean Keyfinder:
> Magical Jelly Bean Keyfinder
> <https://www.magicaljellybean.com/keyfinder/>
> This will get you both the installed OS product ID as well as the 25
> character CD Key. The CD Key is what you really want. You can use the
> program to save the information to a text file or print it out. Or
> both.

This is what the Magical Jelly Bean Keyfinder found for Windows:
https://s9.postimg.org/vn6cj888f/key_windows.jpg

Windows 10 Pro 20-digit product id which says "match to CD Key data".
CD Key: 25-character key
Computer Name & Registered Owner

This is what it found for Microsoft Office Professional 2007:
https://s18.postimg.org/o8zikixi1/key_msoffice.jpg
20-character Product ID & 25-character CD Key

I guess now that I have the "CD Key" for both the Windows 10 Pro and for
the Microsoft Office 2007 Professional, do I also need any other
information?

It seems creepy to be using her name for my software so that's why I ask.

[John & Jane Doe]

Lucifer Morningstar wrote in
<news:5pungcd85klhmh6rt...@4ax.com>:

> Can you use the Windows 7 key?

Do you mean the Windows XP key?

On Windows XP, the only two things I need are my directories:
C:\my_progs
C:\my_files

I have learned over the years after many Windows crashes to never put any
files that I care about in any other spot than those two locations.

So all the files I care about are in C:\my_files where any file in any
other location of the computer is not a file I will ever care about.

All the zip and exe installation files that I downloaded off the Internet
are in C:\my_progs, where no other location of installation programs
matters. It's important to note that these are the uninstalled installers.
The actually installed programs are in c:\program files but once they go
there, they're gone.

So to summarize, backing up the Windows XP is really easy because I only
care about c:\my_files and C:\my_progs, which contains all my data files
and all my program installers.

I guess I should save the Microsoft Office 2007 CD Key also off of Windows
XP. It's funny but there is no "About Office" dialog so I had to look up
how to figure out what version I have installed on Windows XP.

https://support.microsoft.com/nl-be/help/928116/how-to-determine-which-version-of-a-2007-office-product-is-installed

Windows XP
Click Start, click Run, type appwiz.cpl, and then press ENTER.
Click to select the 2007 Office product from the list of installed
products.
Click Click here for support information to see the version of the
installed product.

It seems I have "Microsoft Office Enterprise 2007" on Windows XP.
https://s7.postimg.org/ajns7w0kb/winxp_msoffice.jpg

Do you know if that will carry over to the new Windows 10 Pro MS Office
2007 Pro? (Probably not as it's not the exact same thing.)

[. . .winston]

John & Jane Doe wrote:

> This is what the Magical Jelly Bean Keyfinder found for Windows:
> https://s9.postimg.org/vn6cj888f/key_windows.jpg
>
> Windows 10 Pro 20-digit product id which says "match to CD Key data".
> CD Key: 25-character key
> Computer Name & Registered Owner

Magical Jelly Bean Keyfinder found the generic Win10 key used for the free
upgrade and stored in the registry on the device *after* the Windows 7
genuine license was verified during the free upgrade process.

i.e. you don't have a Win10 Product key. The same generic key is used on
all machine. You do have a device with a digital license and most likely
can be clean installed with Win10 version 1511(10586 your version), version
1607(14393 later build than yours) media and possibly 1703(build 14393) media.

If you clean install using the generic key it will not activate. You would
subsequently need to provide a valid Win10, Windows 7(OEM or retail) product
key to activate.
- i.e. if you clean install you should choose the 'Skip' product key
option(Do not enter the generic key the 'Keyfinder' found) and let Win10's
clean install setup activate using the digital license stored on the server.

You're fortunate that the original owner didn't activate and link a
Microsoft account to the digital license.
Windows 10/Setttings/Windows Update/Activation
If so, when looking on the Activate screen it would have said "Windows is
activated with a digital license **linked** to you Microsoft account"

Finally, if this machine(unlikely since its 2009 vintage Windows 7 Home
based on your feedback) it does not have a Windows 7 Home product key on
embedded on the bios. If it did and you clean install, Windows 10 Home
would be the default installed o/s.

How did the Windows 7 Home get to Windows 1o Pro ?
Three ways.
- the prior owner upgraded Windows 7 Home to Pro using a Windows 7 Pro key
or
- the prior owner upgraded from Windows 10 Home to Pro using a valid
Windows 10 Pro key
or
- the more likely, the prior owner took advantage of the Windows 7 to
Windows 8 Pro upgrade offer, then used the free Win10 upgrade to upgrade
Win8 Pro to Win10 Pro.

One final note: Since this is originally an OEM machine, it falls under the
rights that allow transfer of the machine and license to another owner
Win10
"a.Software preinstalled on device. If you acquired the software
preinstalled on a device (and also if you upgraded from software
preinstalled on a device), you may transfer the license to use the software
directly to another user, only with the licensed device. The transfer must
include the software and, if provided with the device, an authentic Windows
label including the product key. Before any permitted transfer, the other
party must agree that this agreement applies to the transfer and use of the
software."
i.e. their should be a sticker on the machine that has the Windows 7
Product key.

Fyi...if not already answered, you can change 'her' name by editing the
registry key that contains the registered owner name.

--
...winston
msft mvp windows experience 2007-2016, insider mvp 2016

[. . .winston]

John & Jane Doe wrote:

> Lucifer Morningstar wrote in
> <news:5pungcd85klhmh6rt...@4ax.com>:
>
>> Can you use the Windows 7 key?
>
> Do you mean the Windows XP key?

I doubt Lucifer meant the Windows XP key. Hopefully, they will return and
answer.

In the meantime, I suspect, you were being asked if you have the Windows 7
Product key.
- it should be on a sticker on the machine or included with the material
received when the product was transferred to you.

One of the reasons why someone might ask 'if you can use a Windows 7 Product
key' is because Windows 10 can be clean installed and activated, when it has
a prior digital activated license, using the valid Windows 7 Product key for
that device.

Another reason for asking, also possible, is if 'you could use not knowing'
or 'if you knew' that you could use the Windows 7 Product key to activate
Windows 10.


--
...winston
msft mvp windows experience 2007-2016, insider mvp 2016-2017

[Lucifer Morningstar]

On Fri, 5 May 2017 05:20:14 -0000 (UTC), John & Jane Doe
<johnNj...@is.invalid> wrote:

>Lucifer Morningstar wrote in
><news:5pungcd85klhmh6rt...@4ax.com>:
>
>> Can you use the Windows 7 key?
>
>Do you mean the Windows XP key?

I was wondering if you could use the original Windows 7 key.

>On Windows XP, the only two things I need are my directories:
>C:\my_progs
>C:\my_files

You will also want
C:\documents and settings
C:\windows

>I have learned over the years after many Windows crashes to never put any
>files that I care about in any other spot than those two locations.
>
>So all the files I care about are in C:\my_files where any file in any
>other location of the computer is not a file I will ever care about.

Unless you want XP to run.

>All the zip and exe installation files that I downloaded off the Internet
>are in C:\my_progs, where no other location of installation programs
>matters. It's important to note that these are the uninstalled installers.
>The actually installed programs are in c:\program files but once they go
>there, they're gone.
>
>So to summarize, backing up the Windows XP is really easy because I only
>care about c:\my_files and C:\my_progs, which contains all my data files
>and all my program installers.
>
>I guess I should save the Microsoft Office 2007 CD Key also off of Windows
>XP. It's funny but there is no "About Office" dialog so I had to look up
>how to figure out what version I have installed on Windows XP.
>
>https://support.microsoft.com/nl-be/help/928116/how-to-determine-which-version-of-a-2007-office-product-is-installed
>
>Windows XP
>Click Start, click Run, type appwiz.cpl, and then press ENTER.
>Click to select the 2007 Office product from the list of installed
>products.
>Click Click here for support information to see the version of the
>installed product.
>
>It seems I have "Microsoft Office Enterprise 2007" on Windows XP.
>https://s7.postimg.org/ajns7w0kb/winxp_msoffice.jpg
>
>Do you know if that will carry over to the new Windows 10 Pro MS Office
>2007 Pro? (Probably not as it's not the exact same thing.)

I don't know but it would be wroth a try.

You could use the Jellybean keyfinder to find the CD keys.
I recently did a fresh install of Windows 10 after having used
XP for a long time.

[burfordTjustice]

On Fri, 5 May 2017 03:33:44 -0400
". . .winston" <winst...@gmail.com> wrote:


>
> I doubt .

>
> In the meantime, I suspect,

> someone might ask

>also possible,

More speculation, no fucking answers from the MS pimp.

[John & Jane Doe]

. . .winston wrote in <news:oeh8ba$88k$1...@dont-email.me>:

> Magical Jelly Bean Keyfinder found the generic Win10 key used for the free
> upgrade and stored in the registry on the device *after* the Windows 7
> genuine license was verified during the free upgrade process.

Is this line from Magical Jelly Bean output indicative of "hard media"?
"Installed from Full Packaged Product Media"
https://s9.postimg.org/vn6cj888f/key_windows.jpg

> i.e. you don't have a Win10 Product key.

Oh. Interesting. That's not what I had expected.

> The same generic key is used on all machine.

I'm confused.

Does that mean that I did not need to redact the 20 and 25 character keys
in the previous screenshot above because everyone has the same keys?

> You do have a device with a digital license and most likely
> can be clean installed with Win10 version 1511(10586 your version), version
> 1607(14393 later build than yours) media and possibly 1703(build 14393) media.

This is what is most important! Thanks.

> If you clean install using the generic key it will not activate. You would
> subsequently need to provide a valid Win10, Windows 7(OEM or retail) product
> key to activate.

Oh. That's not what others said so I thank you for pointing out that I
can't use the keys that came out of Magical Jelly Bean output.

> - i.e. if you clean install you should choose the 'Skip' product key
> option(Do not enter the generic key the 'Keyfinder' found) and let Win10's
> clean install setup activate using the digital license stored on the server.

I think I understand, but it's different than what others said so may I
repeat what you said?
1. You said that the keys that Magical Jelly Bean output are just generic.
2. Therefore, they might not work in a clean install (so don't use them).
3. Yet, I do have a "valid" Windows 10 license (an upgrade from Windows 7).
4. So, when clean installing Windows 10 Pro, the server will validate that.

Does it matter which of the following ISO files I choose to create on XP?
https://s14.postimg.org/vegy73d4x/windows_iso.gif (which do you suggest)?

> You're fortunate that the original owner didn't activate and link a
> Microsoft account to the digital license.
> Windows 10/Setttings/Windows Update/Activation
> If so, when looking on the Activate screen it would have said "Windows is
> activated with a digital license **linked** to you Microsoft account"

Thank you for telling me this as I don't know what to look for and this is
certainly not how Windows XP did things.
https://s7.postimg.org/ggvp86w2j/hp_activation.gif

So I don't even know what a "Microsoft account" is as that is a foreign
concept that she had to have an account (linked or otherwise) with MS.

> Finally, if this machine(unlikely since its 2009 vintage Windows 7 Home
> based on your feedback) it does not have a Windows 7 Home product key on
> embedded on the bios. If it did and you clean install, Windows 10 Home
> would be the default installed o/s.

I don't know if I gave you correct information but here is where I got that
information from. Here is the date stamp on the inside of the HP case:
https://s13.postimg.org/50a4owg7r/hp_case_date.gif

Here is the sticker on the outside of the case which says it's for
"Windows 7 Home Prem OA" with a bunch of numbers on it.
https://s15.postimg.org/8k2gatca3/win7_sticker.jpg

Which of those numbers are meaningful to me now?
584xxx-xxx
00196-xxx-xxx-xxx
Product Key MJTXX-XXXXX-XXXXX-XXXXX-XXXXX
X15-53758

> How did the Windows 7 Home get to Windows 1o Pro ?
> Three ways.
> - the prior owner upgraded Windows 7 Home to Pro using a Windows 7 Pro key
> or
> - the prior owner upgraded from Windows 10 Home to Pro using a valid
> Windows 10 Pro key
> or
> - the more likely, the prior owner took advantage of the Windows 7 to
> Windows 8 Pro upgrade offer, then used the free Win10 upgrade to upgrade
> Win8 Pro to Win10 Pro.

Thank you very much for that explanation.

> One final note: Since this is originally an OEM machine, it falls under the
> rights that allow transfer of the machine and license to another owner
> Win10

> i.e. their should be a sticker on the machine that has the Windows 7
> Product key.

I showed that sticker for "Windows 78 Home Prem OA" above.

> Fyi...if not already answered, you can change 'her' name by editing the
> registry key that contains the registered owner name.

Thank you for explaining that I can change the name that is "registered"
simply by editing the registry using regedit (like I would edit the
registry with Windows XP?) as I don't want the old owner to have any
problems from what I do moving forward.

Here is the currently registered name:
https://s9.postimg.org/vn6cj888f/key_windows.jpg

I was worried that this name was registered on the MS servers, which would
mean that my actions would be associated with hers. I guess not since you
said that it's really only on the machine registry that her name exists.

[Paul]

Are you sure about this ?

There *is* a tool which will recover the qualifying key (the key of
the Windows 7 OS), as well as the bogus generic key a digital entitlement
install does.

If you buy a Win10 key, then magicaljellybean will likely recover
that key for you. I don't doubt that part.

But magicaljellybean, unless they changed it recently. probably
doesn't recover both keys, in the first scenario.

When digital entitlement is used, there shouldn't be any direct
evidence of a Win10 key. The slmgr /dlv command can give some
numeric identifiers, which may help if you're on the phone with
a Microsoft representative, attempting to re-activate after
a motherboard swap. Other than that, I'm not sure the key extraction
method, applied to the current (so-called) key, is of much use to you.
If you see 3V66T for example, and Magicaljellybean also recovers 3V66T,
that tells you the key is not real. 3V66T is the generic Win10 Pro
key, which is not a real key for any purpose. It's decorative.

These are examples of keys that aren't likely
to do you much good. You can test them if you like,
but don't expect slmgr /dlv to indicate you're
activated.

XKY4K-2NRWR-8F6P2-448RF-CRYQH (Windows 8 Professional)
RR3BN-3YY9P-9D7FC-7J4YF-QGJXW (Windows 8 Professional with Media Center)
FB4WR-32NVD-4RW79-XQFWH-CYQG3 (Windows 8 [Home])
XHQ8N-C3MCJ-RQXB6-WCHYG-C9WKB (Windows 8.1 Professional)
GBFNG-2X3TC-8R27F-RMKYB-JK7QT (Windows 8.1 Professional with Media Center)
334NH-RXG76-64THK-C7CKG-D3VPT (Windows 8.1 [Home])
VK7JG-NPHTM-C97JM-9MPGT-3V66T (Windows 10 Professional) <--- my X79 homebrew
YTMG3-N6DKC-DKB77-7M9GH-8HVX7 (Windows 10 Home - multi language) <--- my Acer laptop upgrade
BT79Q-G7N6G-PGBYW-4YWX6-6F4BT (Windows 10 Home - single language)

*******

This is the algorithm for pulling an encoded key from the registry.
MagicalJellyBean should be doing this.

https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/canitpro/2015/11/11/how-to-find-the-windows-10-product-key-after-an-upgrade/

But this is only the one level, and on a Digital Entitlement install,
is likely to pull the 3V66T bogus key.

*******

This is the two-level key finder. It can show the
qualifying key, and the current (bogus or otherwise) key.

https://www.tenforums.com/software-apps/2577-showkeyplus.html

I got the ref to it, here.

https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/7745-find-product-key-windows-10-a.html

These are the results of that software, on
two computers here.

https://s14.postimg.org/c9z59d68x/fun_with_Win10_keys.gif

I haven't exercised all the functionality of that tool,
but right now, in my two examples, there isn't
too much I "should be writing down". My COA sticker
on the Acer is still readable, so I don't
need ShowKeyPlus for that one.

And the generic keys, are useless. They're about as
valuable, as the generic keys on SLIC activated
Win7 or older computers.

The *original* key is useful, if you needed to generate
a digital entitlement. And people are still reporting
they are able to perform the "free upgrade". You can
enter the Win7 key or Win8.1 key during a free upgrade,
and that is used to generate the Digital Entitlement
record on the MS Server. But on a reinstall, the mainly
bogus nature of what you're going to pull from the
Registry, makes the server-side Digital Entitlement the
most important part. (As it auto-activates on a
clean reinstall, without any keys needed.)

Paul

[John & Jane Doe]

. . .winston wrote in <news:oeh8n5$9cs$1...@dont-email.me>:

>> Since I'm going to keep the new desktop off the net until I put fresh
>> software on it, and since the magical jelly bean software pulled the keys
>> out of the Windows 10 registry, can I now use that link on WinXP to
>> download the full MS Windows 10 and Office 2007 installers and to burn > > each one to a DVD?
>
> Windows 10 - Yes
> Office 2007 - Maybe
> (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/office) - you'll need a
> valid product key to download 2007. Note: Support for 2007 ends in 2017.

That answer is confusing because originally I only wanted to preserve the
Windows 10 Pro license, which you have assured me will likely be preserved.

Until I ran that Magical Jelly Bean Keyfinder, I didn't even realize the
desktop came with an existing license for "Microsoft Office Professional
2007", which is the second thing that would be nice to preserve.
https://s18.postimg.org/o8zikixi1/key_msoffice.jpg

When you say I need a "valid product key" to download it from Microsoft, is
that valid product key listed in the photograph above?

>> It's confusing when I go here from Windows XP:
>> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10
>> "You've been routed to this page because the operating system you're
>> using won't support the Windows 10 media creation tool and we want to make
>> sure you can download Windows 10."
>
> Accessing that page from XP will only provide the option to download an ISO.

I am familiar with the process of downloading an ISO onto Windows XP and
then burning that ISO to a DVD or CD using ImgBurn, so that is the simplest
thing. I don't think I want to learn all about a "media creation tool" when
I'm only going to be doing this once, so, I prefer to keep it simple.

> If you access the page from Win7/8/10 you'll be given the option to
> download the Media Creation Tool to create media(USB or DVD) for Windows 10.

It would be best if I can just burn a simple ISO file and then I can put
that ISO disc in a safe place to use in the future if necessary to do a
clean re-install of Windows 10 Pro.

> If you use XP and download the iso, you will need to create Windows media
> from the iso(using Windows 10 or other media creation software e.g. Rufus).

Oh. That's bad news. I think. Why do they make things so un-obvious.

I'm used to XP media which is just a disc that you can install the software
off of and that software will work if you have an XP key.

This "media creation tool" is confusing, so may I ask clarifying questions?

1. I have an XP machine on the Internet.
2. I have this Windows 10 Pro machine that 'can' be put on the Internet.
3. What do you suggest if what I want is the *simplest* form of DVD media?

Do you recommend I download the Windows 10 Pro ISO onto WinXP and then
create whatever that "media creation" is using "Rufus"?

Or do you recommend I give up on doing anything from Windows XP and just do
it all from the new Windows 10 Pro machine?

[John & Jane Doe]

. . .winston wrote in <news:oeh9mn$c1o$1...@dont-email.me>:

> In the meantime, I suspect, you were being asked if you have the Windows 7
> Product key.
> - it should be on a sticker on the machine or included with the material
> received when the product was transferred to you.

Thank you for asking clarifying questions because when I bought this
desktop, I was just told it worked, and when it booted up before I bought
it, the only thing I knew to ask was what the password was of the user (she
gave it to me, and I bought it as soon as I was able to log in).

Here is the sticker on the outside of the case which says it's for
"Windows 7 Home Prem OA" with a bunch of numbers on it.
https://s15.postimg.org/8k2gatca3/win7_sticker.jpg

Are any of those numbers supposed to be meaningful to me at this point?

[John & Jane Doe]

Lucifer Morningstar wrote in
<news:tfbogc91d1g9dhotf...@4ax.com>:

>>
>>Do you mean the Windows XP key?
> I was wondering if you could use the original Windows 7 key.

When I ran the Magical Jelly Bean Keyfinder, it didn't report anything
about Windows 7. It only reported the Windows 10 Pro keys it found.

>>On Windows XP, the only two things I need are my directories:
>>C:\my_progs
>>C:\my_files
>
> You will also want
> C:\documents and settings
> C:\windows

My rule is to never put anything into either of those two folders!
C:\Documents and Settings
C:\Windows

I have used Windows XP for many years where I have many times had to do a
clean install where all I need ever are the two directories where I put
things which are the downloaded installers (uninstalled) and my data.

I learned many years ago to never put anything in the "Documents and
Settings" folders or the "WINDOWS" folder, because they get so filled up
with junk from the operating system and other programs that they both are
just a big waste bin of sorts.

It's like the difference between the "adult bathroom" in the house and the
"kids bathroom" in the house.

The kids bathroom is a mess. Nothing is where it belongs. Toys are
scattered about that don't even belong there. Clothes are all over. Toilet
paper rolls are on the floor. Soap is sitting in the middle of the bathtub.
Shampoo is leaking down the side. The toothpaste never has a cap and it's
squirting out onto the sink, which itself is clogged from toothpaste and
hair and toys.

That's what "Documents and Settings" is like.
All the programs & the operating system make an undisciplined mess of it.

On the other hand, the adult bathroom in the house is exactly as you'd
expect to be. A place for everything, and everything in its place.

That's what my C:\my_files hierarchy is like.
None of the programs or operating system makes a mess of it.

>>I have learned over the years after many Windows crashes to never put any
>>files that I care about in any other spot than those two locations.
>>
>>So all the files I care about are in C:\my_files where any file in any
>>other location of the computer is not a file I will ever care about.
>
> Unless you want XP to run.

All I can tell you is that I have had XP for years, which you know means I
have had to do clean installs multiple times and all I ever need are my
data files and my downloaded installers (and any software that came on hard
media).

We could argue philosophy, where I wish the kids would maintain their
bathroom but kids will never do that so their bathroom isn't even worth
using.

It's the same with any folder that software "knows" about since any folder
that Microsoft provides is so filled up with garbage (just like the kid's
bathroom) that it isn't worth dealing with.

I just create my own folders that neither the operating system nor the
programs make a mess of and everything is fine.

Of course, I ensure that every data file that I care about is saved into
the proper location in C:\my_files\ so I know that I have never
purposefully put any files in C:\Documents and Settings\ and certainly I
don't put anything in C:\WINDOWS.

Every well written program will let you change the default location of its
file storage to C:\my_files\<where you want your files to be>.

I do understand that most people put things into C:\Documents and Settings\
but I don't know how they find anything in that garbage pile.

The solution I learned long ago was simply to put things in a place that
the programs don't automatically know about.

It's like not letting the kids use the adult bathroom.
Keeping them out is all it takes to keep it organized and clean.

[John & Jane Doe]

Paul wrote in <news:oehs1g$a7s$1...@dont-email.me>:

> There *is* a tool which will recover the qualifying key (the key of
> the Windows 7 OS), as well as the bogus generic key a digital entitlement
> install does.

The only "Windows 7 Home Prem OA" key I know about is on this sticker:
https://s15.postimg.org/8k2gatca3/win7_sticker.jp

> If you see 3V66T for example, and Magicaljellybean also recovers 3V66T,
> that tells you the key is not real. 3V66T is the generic Win10 Pro
> key, which is not a real key for any purpose. It's decorative.

Oh oh. MJB Keyfinder *did* report a 3V66T Windows 10 Pro key!
https://s9.postimg.org/vn6cj888f/key_windows.jpg

> VK7JG-NPHTM-C97JM-9MPGT-3V66T (Windows 10 Professional) <--- my X79 homebrew

I noticed you listed the entire key but I was afraid to in my photographs.
How do I know what parts of the key I should redact when posting?






(I will run the ShowKeyPlus separately & report back what it finds.)

[Paul]

John & Jane Doe wrote:

I only post full keys, on the keys I *know* are bogus
and unusable for any purpose.

3V66T has been around for several years, even in the early
Preview days.

These are ones I don't mind posting. There are a hundred million
computers using these two. Generic placeholder keys.

VK7JG-NPHTM-C97JM-9MPGT-3V66T (Windows 10 Professional) <--- my X79 homebrew

YTMG3-N6DKC-DKB77-7M9GH-8HVX7 (Windows 10 Home - multi language) <--- my Acer laptop upgrade

Whereas the actual Win7 COA key on the sticker, I won't
be showing you that.

The "8HVX7" one is generic, and appears after a person
does the free upgrade to Win10 Home, from a qualifying OS.
Those keys are backed up with the Digital Entitlement
on the server, which is the "real" and unique identifier.

*******

I used enhanced techniques when running ShowKeyPlus,
so the software was not allowed to have a free-for-all.
The OS was backed up, the tool run, a picture taken.
The network cable was disconnected. The OS was
restored from backup.

That's not a "high security" setting at all, as the
firmware stored on the computer could still be damaged
by running untrusted software. While I did subject the
software to a virustotal.com scan, that doesn't guarantee
a damn thing.

So I did take a chance when running that stuff. As the
firmware on my hard drive, the BIOS flash chip, a few
other config ROMs, could be overwritten by malicious
software. Even using a VM to test is taking a chance,
because VMs are easy to punch through.

The only way I'd trust that software, is if I had source.

To reverse engineer it, you can use Process Monitor and
see which two registry keys it is reading. However, if
you do watch the software, you will be disappointed
with the "torrent of operations that make no sense".
I'm always shocked at the random stuff the OS starts
doing, when I'm running stuff. There is a tremendous
amount of noise in the trace collected.

Paul

[FreeUser]

To answer your questions.

Get free revo uninstaller.
It will uninstall apps and possibly things the windows uninstaller will
not uninstall properly

Get free Glary utilities (not just the cleaner) and it will clean up
registry, temp files etc. It can be used to wipe all free space and I
would do that on a garage sale laptop for sure.

I run both without problems and they do clean.
CCleaner is OK too but I think Glary does a better job.
If I run CCleaner first, Glary finds a few more things to clean.

Both cleaners will nag from time to time to upgrade to paid version but
I just ignore that. The are worth the nags I think.

All of these have run many many times without damaging a Win XP, Win 7
Pro or Win 10 desktop or laptop PC that I have.

Well worth the money ! (they are free, lol)

Now for additional cleanup, get free Everything utility.
Use it to find all *.JPG, *.BMP, etc images, audio files *.wav, *.mp3
*.mid etc , movie files *.FLV, *.MP4 etc and make sure you have nothing
that would embarrass you.

Use Glary file wiper (in the utilities) to get rid of them. One wipe is
really enough to do the job. Multiple wipes are not necessary and waste
time.

Good Luck.

[John & Jane Doe]

Paul wrote in <news:oei1v8$uv6$1...@dont-email.me>:

> These are ones I don't mind posting. There are a hundred million
> computers using these two. Generic placeholder keys.
>
> VK7JG-NPHTM-C97JM-9MPGT-3V66T (Windows 10 Professional) <--- my X79 homebrew
> YTMG3-N6DKC-DKB77-7M9GH-8HVX7 (Windows 10 Home - multi language) <--- my Acer laptop upgrade
>
> Whereas the actual Win7 COA key on the sticker, I won't
> be showing you that.
>
> The "8HVX7" one is generic, and appears after a person
> does the free upgrade to Win10 Home, from a qualifying OS.
> Those keys are backed up with the Digital Entitlement
> on the server, which is the "real" and unique identifier.

Here is what my ShowKeys run output:
https://s24.postimg.org/ny4uzpwc5/showkeyplus.gif

Product Name: Windows 10 Pro
Prodict ID: xxxxx-xxxxx-xxxxx-xxxxx
Installed Key: VK7JG-NPHTM-C97JM-9MPGT-3V66T
Original Key: xxxxx-xxxxx-xxxxx-xxxxx-xxxxx
Original Edition: Windows 7 Ultimate Retail
OEM Key: Windows 7 OEM marker present in firmware

What does that puzzle tell us?
Which is the thing I should write down?

[David B.]

On 05/05/2017 14:48, John & Jane Doe wrote:

> How do I know what parts of the key I should redact when posting?

REDACT - who taught you that word?!!!

--
"The important thing is not to stop questioning."
- Albert Einstein

[John & Jane Doe]

David B. wrote in <news:AQ5PA.642291$i7.9...@fx30.fr7>:

> REDACT - who taught you that word?!!!

Origin and Etymology of redact
Middle English, from Latin redactus, past participle of redigere

First Known Use: 15th century
1350-1400; Middle English < Latin redāctus (past participle of redigere to
lead back), equivalent to red- red- + āctus, past participle of agere to
lead;

[David B.]

On 05/05/2017 22:58, John & Jane Doe wrote:

> David B. wrote in <news:AQ5PA.642291$i7.9...@fx30.fr7>:
>
>> REDACT - who taught you that word?!!!
>
> Origin and Etymology of redact
> Middle English, from Latin redactus, past participle of redigere
>
> First Known Use: 15th century

> 1350-1400; Middle English < Latin redàctus (past participle of redigere to
> lead back), equivalent to red- red- + àctus, past participle of agere to
> lead;


I repeat: *Who taught YOU that word*?!!!

--
David B.

[Lucifer Morningstar]

On Fri, 5 May 2017 13:08:09 -0000 (UTC), John & Jane Doe
<johnNj...@is.invalid> wrote:

>. . .winston wrote in <news:oeh9mn$c1o$1...@dont-email.me>:
>
>> In the meantime, I suspect, you were being asked if you have the Windows 7
>> Product key.

Yes.

>> - it should be on a sticker on the machine or included with the material
>> received when the product was transferred to you.
>
>Thank you for asking clarifying questions because when I bought this
>desktop, I was just told it worked, and when it booted up before I bought
>it, the only thing I knew to ask was what the password was of the user (she
>gave it to me, and I bought it as soon as I was able to log in).
>
>Here is the sticker on the outside of the case which says it's for
>"Windows 7 Home Prem OA" with a bunch of numbers on it.
> https://s15.postimg.org/8k2gatca3/win7_sticker.jpg
>
>Are any of those numbers supposed to be meaningful to me at this point?

The Windows version and the product key.

[Paul]

John & Jane Doe wrote:

As I explained earlier.

1) The Win7 had a key. You would record the Win7 Ultimate
key for future usage of Windows 7. That would be the
"Original Key" field.

The OEM key marker present, in this case means the PC is
SLIC activated for the original version of Windows. The
OEM machines come with two keys - the bogus one that is
the same on all Dells, plus the key on the COA sticker. If
the COA sticker was removed, maybe the "Original Key" is
a copy of that COA key. However, I don't think it's too
common for PCs to come with Ultimate from the factory,
so an AnyTime Upgrade might have been done on the machine,
and the Ultimate key was applied separately. In any case,
the Original Key field has some value... for Win7 operation.

2) The 3V66T is useless.

The actual Win10 key is the Digital Entitlement, stored
on the Microsoft Server.

When Win10 is running, you can run slmgr /dlv to collect
identifying information which can be used when talking
to a Microsoft employee by phone. That's if you change
motherboards and are trying to get Win10 activated again.

Win10, as long as its the same trim level, should just
reinstall (clean) and activate on its own. Using the
serial number of the PC to query the Microsoft Server
for details. Since the qualifying OS, according to your
info was Win7 Ultimate, that means the version of
Win10 must be Win10 Pro. You could re-install
Win10 Pro 32-bit or 64-bit, using the Digital Entitlement
already stored on the Microsoft server. Your identity
isn't known, until you start interacting with the Microsoft
Store, fill out an MSA, use your credit card, and so on.
The Ultimate key may be traceable, as an Anytime Upgrade
may have a credit card paper trail. So the Digital
Entitlement may have enough info to determine which
human did the AnyTime Upgrade.

As for the screen shots you've been taking, you can
use "snippingtool" in Windows to take screenshots. I usually
run it, and when it is running, go to the Task Bar, right-click
it and select "Pin to Task Bar". Then, the screen shot tool
is sitting down there in the bar when you need it.

The only time I use a webcam to shoot pictures of the
screen, is during boot, when I need to photograph
some abnormal behavior. If the OS is running, I can usually
get the effect I want with SnippingTool. The image editor GIMP
also has screen capture, and I sometimes use the time
delayed capture, to interact with menus and get a
capture of an exposed menu item. SnippingTool also has
delay capability. Occasionally, an object on the
screen mis-behaves and doesn't capture properly, in
which case, using full screen capture and cropping
the image later, will achieve the desired capture.

In the old days, we used the PrintScreen key for
screen capture, but that's "so 1950's" :-) Nobody
does that any more. The SnippingTool takes some
of the work out of it, but you might still need to
crop your screen shots for best effect. On occasion,
I scale pictures up to make them fill a recipients
screen better. You can have all sorts of fun
Photo-chopping your captures.

https://s29.postimg.org/mo3sbweuv/scaling.gif

Paul

[Lucifer Morningstar]

On Fri, 05 May 2017 23:43:47 -0400, Paul <nos...@needed.invalid>
wrote:

I have a Compaq laptop that has the OEM key in firmware
but would not allow me to do an upgrade to Windows 10.
I had to delete the Windows 7 partitions and do a full
install.

I also have an HP laptop which had Windows Vista Business
preinstalled but which shows as having a Windows 7 key in
firmware.

> Paul

[Paul]

The free upgrade is not offered for every SKU.
Only a few qualifying OS SKUs are supported.

It's not intended for Enterprise users, as they're
expected to pay full price.

What's in the BIOS:

SLIC table - Win7 or older. Not a key. Just "authorization".
The SLIC authorizes the Royalty Branded OEM OS used.
The SLIC says "I'm a Dell", allowing Dell Win7 to work.
The SLIC authorizes multiple OSes, so a single SLIC
may allow Dell Win7, Dell Vista, Dell WinXP.

MSDN table - Win8/8.1/10. An actual key, intended to activate
only the OS in question. May be used for the
free upgrade.

I don't think a BIOS is supposed to have both, unless
there are downgrade rights on some Pro version. Yes,
lots of machines will have a SLIC, but things like
retail motherboards, it's 10KB of "garbage". So they
do allow noise-filled SLICs to be loaded in the BIOS.
I could not get an explanation why they bother with this.

There is a whole industry of "SLIC-faking" going on out
there, but those people are very quiet and circumspect.
They don't blab about it, or "invite" others into their
activities. This would allow, say, Dell Win7, to be used
on a home-brew computer built from parts.

Paul

[...winston]

"John & Jane Doe" wrote in message news:oehtfp$ttt$1...@news.mixmin.net...

> Here is the sticker on the outside of the case which says it's for
> "Windows 7 Home Prem OA" with a bunch of numbers on it.
> https://s15.postimg.org/8k2gatca3/win7_sticker.jpg

> Are any of those numbers supposed to be meaningful to me at this point?

Absolutely. Provided on the equipment by HP as the unique and valid product
key for the Windows 7 HP Home Premium device sold to the original purchaser
and now since hardware is now transferred to you, your valid product key for
Windows 7 HP Premium for the same device.

What you don't have is a Windows 7 Pro product key. Product keys (e.g. your
Home key) are edition unique
- i.e. The Home key can only activate 'Home'.

Nor do you know how Windows 7 Home as-shipped by HP to the prior owner
upgraded to Pro.
- ?? Upgraded with a Windows 7 Pro key
- ?? Upgraded to Windows 8 Pro from 7 Home at the time MSFT made that
option available and subsequently to Windows 10 Pro during the Win10 free
upgrade period.
- ?? Upgraded to Windows 10 Pro from Win10 Home(after upgrading 7 Home to 10
during the free 10 upgrade period) using a Windows 10 Pro key.

None of the unkown above maybe important at this stage, unless you plan on
attempting to use that Windows 7 Home key to activate a clean install of
Windows 10 instead of letting the digital license for Win10 on the server
activate a clean install. If you did that, a clean install of Windows 10 may
see that as a new activation and install Windows 10 Home. As noted
before, not a good idea - if you clean install, choose the Skip product key
option during the Windows 10 clean install setup process to ensure Windows
10 Pro.

[John & Jane Doe]

Paul wrote in <news:oejgjd$b97$1...@dont-email.me>:

> 1) The Win7 had a key.

As you note, the original Windows on the sticker is "Windows 7 Home Prem
OA" but the (different) Window 7 key ShowKeyPlus reports is "Windows 7
Ultimate retail".

As noted, the Belarc "Internet Explorer" key was the same as the
ShowKeyPlus "Windows 7 Ultimate retail" key.

> 2) The 3V66T is useless.

Thanks.

All three suggested programs (Magical Jellybean Keyfinder, ShowKeyPlus, and
Belarc Advisor) reported that bogus "Microsoft Windows 10 Professional
(x64)" key.

> The actual Win10 key is the Digital Entitlement, stored
> on the Microsoft Server.

> Win10, as long as its the same trim level, should just
> reinstall (clean) and activate on its own.

I understand, and am therefore not worried about the Windows 10 key.

My plan will be as follows:

1. Learn the Windows 10 interface on the current setup
2. Download & burn a Windows 10 Pro x64 ISO dvd
3. Download & burn an Office Professional 2007 dvd

From there I will do a clean installation of both.
And then set it up to be organized like an adult rest room should be.

Thanks.

In summary, for future users, the Magical Jellybean Keyfinder turns out to
be useless in that it doesn't report anything that ShowKeyPlus or Belarc
Advisor didn't report, while the latter two reported things that the
Magical Jellybean Keyfinder did not report.

Comparing the output of ShowKeyPlus with Belarc, Belarc reported the same
as ShowKeyPlus, plus it reported more.

To give back to the net, of the three suggested tools, here is my
assessment:
A. Belarc Advisor was the best of the three suggested tools
B. ShowKeyPlus is just ok (but not as good as Belarc Advisor)
C. Magical Jellybean Keyfinder is basically useless in comparison

PS: I will write up my first impressions of XP->Win10 separately.

[John & Jane Doe]

David B. wrote in <news:D87PA.723411$kC.3...@fx16.fr7>:

> I repeat: *Who taught YOU that word*?!!!

The CIA, DIA, FBI, NSA, TSA, etc.

[Shadow]

On Fri, 5 May 2017 23:37:23 +0100, "David B."
<Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:

>On 05/05/2017 22:58, John & Jane Doe wrote:
>> David B. wrote in <news:AQ5PA.642291$i7.9...@fx30.fr7>:
>>
>>> REDACT - who taught you that word?!!!
>>
>> Origin and Etymology of redact
>> Middle English, from Latin redactus, past participle of redigere
>>
>> First Known Use: 15th century

>> 1350-1400; Middle English < Latin redāctus (past participle of redigere to
>> lead back), equivalent to red- red- + āctus, past participle of agere to

>> lead;
>
>
>I repeat: *Who taught YOU that word*?!!!

What does that have to do with the thread ?
Not STALKING again, I hope ?
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

[David B.]

Thank you. :-)

I've only ever noticed ONE other poster use the word!

--
The only people who make a difference are the people who believe they can.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <oejgjd$b97$1...@dont-email.me>, Paul <nos...@needed.invalid>
writes:
[]

>In the old days, we used the PrintScreen key for
>screen capture, but that's "so 1950's" :-) Nobody
>does that any more. The SnippingTool takes some
>of the work out of it, but you might still need to
>crop your screen shots for best effect. On occasion,
>I scale pictures up to make them fill a recipients
>screen better. You can have all sorts of fun
>Photo-chopping your captures.
>
>https://s29.postimg.org/mo3sbweuv/scaling.gif
>
> Paul

Some of us used (and I still do, being mainly on XP, and even 2000 when
I was with my previous employer who had that built into test sets)
PrintScreen, but also Alt-PrintScreen, which it seems few people know
about. The latter just captures the currently-active window; saves a lot
of snipping.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Quantum particles: the dreams that stuff is made of - David Moser

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <oehufp$vt0$1...@news.mixmin.net>, John & Jane Doe

<johnNj...@is.invalid> writes:
>Lucifer Morningstar wrote in
><news:tfbogc91d1g9dhotf...@4ax.com>:
>
>>>
>>>Do you mean the Windows XP key?
>> I was wondering if you could use the original Windows 7 key.
>
>When I ran the Magical Jelly Bean Keyfinder, it didn't report anything
>about Windows 7. It only reported the Windows 10 Pro keys it found.
>
>>>On Windows XP, the only two things I need are my directories:
>>>C:\my_progs
>>>C:\my_files
>>
>> You will also want
>> C:\documents and settings
>> C:\windows
>
>My rule is to never put anything into either of those two folders!
> C:\Documents and Settings
> C:\Windows
>
>I have used Windows XP for many years where I have many times had to do a
>clean install where all I need ever are the two directories where I put
>things which are the downloaded installers (uninstalled) and my data.

I have been using this XP for many years and have _never_ had to do an
install; since it's OEM (bought new), I don't have the necessary media
anyway. (AFAICR, it never nagged me to make any such either.)

I _do_ Macrium image it from time to time, but have never had to
actually use one, apart from the time the HD died. [I _was_ then about
to do a clean install onto the replacement HD - I do have _some_ install
media, and had been making _backups_ of my _data_ - but I did manage to
unstick the HD, and it ran long enough to take an image. That's when I
started imaging (-:]

>
>I learned many years ago to never put anything in the "Documents and
>Settings" folders or the "WINDOWS" folder, because they get so filled up
>with junk from the operating system and other programs that they both are
>just a big waste bin of sorts.

I'm with you there!

>
>It's like the difference between the "adult bathroom" in the house and the
>"kids bathroom" in the house.
>
>The kids bathroom is a mess. Nothing is where it belongs. Toys are
>scattered about that don't even belong there. Clothes are all over. Toilet
>paper rolls are on the floor. Soap is sitting in the middle of the bathtub.
>Shampoo is leaking down the side. The toothpaste never has a cap and it's
>squirting out onto the sink, which itself is clogged from toothpaste and
>hair and toys.
>
>That's what "Documents and Settings" is like.

I love the analogy!

>All the programs & the operating system make an undisciplined mess of it.

[As opposed to a disciplined mess (-:?]

>
>On the other hand, the adult bathroom in the house is exactly as you'd
>expect to be. A place for everything, and everything in its place.
>
>That's what my C:\my_files hierarchy is like.
>None of the programs or operating system makes a mess of it.

I suppose I do much the same, except that I have partitioned the HD, and
keep all my data (including downloaded installers etc.) on D:, very
rarely even opening C: in Explorer. (Of course I _change_ things on C:
whenever I do anything on the desktop, start menu, and other such.)

>
>
>>>I have learned over the years after many Windows crashes to never put any
>>>files that I care about in any other spot than those two locations.
>>>
>>>So all the files I care about are in C:\my_files where any file in any
>>>other location of the computer is not a file I will ever care about.

Clearly, by "files I care about", you mean only your data, and
installers you have downloaded. Same as my D:.

>>
>> Unless you want XP to run.
>
>All I can tell you is that I have had XP for years, which you know means I
>have had to do clean installs multiple times and all I ever need are my
>data files and my downloaded installers (and any software that came on hard
>media).

I know it means _you_ have had to, yes (-:.

>
>We could argue philosophy, where I wish the kids would maintain their
>bathroom but kids will never do that so their bathroom isn't even worth
>using.

Not everyone has the luxury of two bathrooms. I _think_ I am right in
saying that in the UK, it's still very much the exception: a second
_WC_, which I know in US is sometimes called a bathroom (even though it
doesn't have a bath in it!), _is_ becoming commoner, but from your
lovely description above, you clearly are talking about a second
BATHroom.

>
>It's the same with any folder that software "knows" about since any folder
>that Microsoft provides is so filled up with garbage (just like the kid's
>bathroom) that it isn't worth dealing with.

Agreed, except when one has to.

>
>I just create my own folders that neither the operating system nor the
>programs make a mess of and everything is fine.

My D: partition.

>
>Of course, I ensure that every data file that I care about is saved into
>the proper location in C:\my_files\ so I know that I have never
>purposefully put any files in C:\Documents and Settings\ and certainly I
>don't put anything in C:\WINDOWS.

I certainly rarely put anything in C:\Windows. Very occasionally, I find
a utility that is well-behaved, and runs from a single executable, and I
may put that executable in C:\Windows\utils (or C:\Windows if it _has_
to be), but of course I've saved the installer or zip file I downloaded
on D:.

>
>Every well written program will let you change the default location of its
>file storage to C:\my_files\<where you want your files to be>.

Agreed. (In my case D:\<wherever>.)

>
>I do understand that most people put things into C:\Documents and Settings\
>but I don't know how they find anything in that garbage pile.

They probably only look via an application's "Open" dialog, never using
Explorer at all.

>
>The solution I learned long ago was simply to put things in a place that
>the programs don't automatically know about.
>
>It's like not letting the kids use the adult bathroom.
>Keeping them out is all it takes to keep it organized and clean.

If you have that luxury. (I guess a similar one in the computer context
would be having a second HD. I could certainly afford one - as I suspect
is the case for most in this newsgroup - but of course a netbook only
has room for one, and an external one would make it less convenient [and
I wouldn't trust a USB stick].)

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <oei3le$29p0$1...@adenine.netfront.net>, FreeUser

<Free...@NoPlace.com> writes:
>To answer your questions.
>
>Get free revo uninstaller.
>It will uninstall apps and possibly things the windows uninstaller will
>not uninstall properly
>
>Get free Glary utilities (not just the cleaner) and it will clean up
>registry, temp files etc. It can be used to wipe all free space and I
>would do that on a garage sale laptop for sure.
>
>I run both without problems and they do clean.

THANK YOU for daring to be the person who says they use a registry
cleaner! I will warn you (I don't _think_ I've seen your name here
before) that you are about to get a whole heap of doodoo dumped on you.
I understand the reasoning behind the doodoo-dumpers - basically, the
benefits registry cleaners yield are _usually_ in practice
imperceptible, compared to the damage they _can_ cause, especially as
that damage may not show up for a considerable while, and thus not be
easily immediately linked with having used the cleaner; however, the
extent, frequency, and rapidity of the dumping _does_ get a bit wearing,
to say the least. (I'm surprised they haven't beaten me to this
response.)

>CCleaner is OK too but I think Glary does a better job.
>If I run CCleaner first, Glary finds a few more things to clean.

(My experience with such things is that, for any two such, the second
one often finds things the first one didn't, whichever order you run
them in.)

>
>Both cleaners will nag from time to time to upgrade to paid version but
>I just ignore that. The are worth the nags I think.
>
>All of these have run many many times without damaging a Win XP, Win 7
>Pro or Win 10 desktop or laptop PC that I have.
>
>Well worth the money ! (they are free, lol)
>
>Now for additional cleanup, get free Everything utility.
>Use it to find all *.JPG, *.BMP, etc images, audio files *.wav, *.mp3
>*.mid etc , movie files *.FLV, *.MP4 etc and make sure you have nothing
>that would embarrass you.

Interesting thought!

>
>Use Glary file wiper (in the utilities) to get rid of them. One wipe is
>really enough to do the job. Multiple wipes are not necessary and
>waste time.

Indeed. I suspect, these days, even military methods - reading at the
edge of tracks, reading in an analogue manner to retrieve underlying
variations in the magnetisation (or whatever) - yield a lot less success
than is portrayed on NCIS (-:.
>
>Good Luck.
>
Ditto. (I wish we had "garage sales" here [UK]; they sound like fun.)

[burfordTjustice]

On Fri, 5 May 2017 23:37:23 +0100
"David B." <Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:

> Who taught YOU that word*?!!!

FOIA

[Mike Isaacs]

Re printscreen,

I have been using Hardcopy , "http://www.gen.hardcopy.de/" for many
years, with XP and Win 7. It will capture and print the screen, or
sections of it, and also save the image to a file, etc.

I have been using the freeware version, but there is a paid version as
well. ( For my uses, I haven't found any limitations with the freeware
version.)


Mike Isaacs


In message <y18MP4OA...@soft255.demon.co.uk>, "J. P. Gilliver
(John)" <G6JP...@255soft.uk> writes

>In message <oejgjd$b97$1...@dont-email.me>, Paul <nos...@needed.invalid>
>writes:
>[]
>>In the old days, we used the PrintScreen key for
>>screen capture, but that's "so 1950's" :-) Nobody
>>does that any more. The SnippingTool takes some
>>of the work out of it, but you might still need to
>>crop your screen shots for best effect. On occasion,
>>I scale pictures up to make them fill a recipients
>>screen better. You can have all sorts of fun
>>Photo-chopping your captures.
>>
>>https://s29.postimg.org/mo3sbweuv/scaling.gif
>>
>> Paul
>Some of us used (and I still do, being mainly on XP, and even 2000 when
>I was with my previous employer who had that built into test sets)
>PrintScreen, but also Alt-PrintScreen, which it seems few people know
>about. The latter just captures the currently-active window; saves a
>lot of snipping.

--

Mike Isaacs

[Char Jackson]

On Fri, 5 May 2017 23:37:23 +0100, "David B."
<Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:

>On 05/05/2017 22:58, John & Jane Doe wrote:
>> David B. wrote in <news:AQ5PA.642291$i7.9...@fx30.fr7>:
>>
>>> REDACT - who taught you that word?!!!
>>
>> Origin and Etymology of redact
>> Middle English, from Latin redactus, past participle of redigere
>>
>> First Known Use: 15th century

>> 1350-1400; Middle English < Latin redāctus (past participle of redigere to
>> lead back), equivalent to red- red- + āctus, past participle of agere to

>> lead;
>
>
>I repeat: *Who taught YOU that word*?!!!

Hmm, obviously that word gives you a hinky. Can you explain why that is?

[David B.]

On 07/05/2017 17:27, Char Jackson wrote:
> On Fri, 5 May 2017 23:37:23 +0100, "David B."
> <Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 05/05/2017 22:58, John & Jane Doe wrote:
>>> David B. wrote in <news:AQ5PA.642291$i7.9...@fx30.fr7>:
>>>
>>>> REDACT - who taught you that word?!!!
>>>
>>> Origin and Etymology of redact
>>> Middle English, from Latin redactus, past participle of redigere
>>>
>>> First Known Use: 15th century

>>> 1350-1400; Middle English < Latin redàctus (past participle of redigere to
>>> lead back), equivalent to red- red- + àctus, past participle of agere to

>>> lead;
>>
>>
>> I repeat: *Who taught YOU that word*?!!!
>
> Hmm, obviously that word gives you a hinky. Can you explain why that is?

Yes, of course ...... once you have provide the link to your REAL
identity at LinkedIn.

Will you do that, Char?

--
"Do something wonderful, people may imitate it." (Albert Schweitzer)

[John & Jane Doe]

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote in <news:xCC8i7Q7...@soft255.demon.co.uk>:

> THANK YOU for daring to be the person who says they use a registry
> cleaner! I will warn you (I don't _think_ I've seen your name here
> before) that you are about to get a whole heap of doodoo dumped on you.

I realize you were responding to someone else, but I used to manually spit
out the registry (in Win95 days or so) so that I could change the %Program
Files% and %Windows% type directories.

I even had three different temp directories as I recall, based on Windows
three different type of temp directory variables.

Then I gave up. And just stayed away from anything that Windows created
that other programs used.

I still use Ccleaner's registry cleaner though.

>>CCleaner is OK too but I think Glary does a better job.
>>If I run CCleaner first, Glary finds a few more things to clean.

What is this Glary stuff?
Searching, I find http://www.glarysoft.com/glary-utilities/

I just put the installer in:
C:\my_progs\cleaners\registry\glary\

I will test it out.\
https://s24.postimg.org/xbf0g7i91/gary.gif

NOTE: It wants to install maiagames whatever that is, and wants me to join
their "customer experience" which sure doesn't sound like something I want
to do.

As always, I pulled the Ethernet plug when I started it, where it tried to
phone home to
http://www.glarysoft.com/update/release-notes/?p=1&v=6.77.6.92&l=1

And it phones home when you run it each time to "check for updates" which
is impossible to turn off without paying to turn it off it seems.

However, it does have a nice startup manager interface though.
1. startup https://s4.postimg.org/bevbtcodp/gary_startup.gif
2. scheduled https://s7.postimg.org/3tojbahvv/gary_scheduled.gif
3. plugins https://s9.postimg.org/cqu06a7jz/gary_plugins.gif
4. applications https://s11.postimg.org/5hyuf6irn/gary_application.gif
5. windows https://s15.postimg.org/qd48b8ji3/gary_windows.gif

It seems like a nice util, as long as it's run only offline.

> (My experience with such things is that, for any two such, the second
> one often finds things the first one didn't, whichever order you run
> them in.)

Gary seemed to find things that ccleaner did not, so I concur.
I first ran Ccleaner, then Gary's registry cleaner.
Here is the result: https://s21.postimg.org/4xfi2ghyv/gary_registry.gif

NOTE: As a double check, I ran ccleaner after Gary but it found nothing.

>>Both cleaners will nag from time to time to upgrade to paid version but
>>I just ignore that. The are worth the nags I think.

I never upgrade until a gun is put to my head.
Or until there is something I know I need.
Which rarely happens.

[John & Jane Doe]

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote in <news:IydyeAQE...@soft255.demon.co.uk>:

>>I have used Windows XP for many years where I have many times had to do a
>>clean install where all I need ever are the two directories where I put
>>things which are the downloaded installers (uninstalled) and my data.
>
> I have been using this XP for many years and have _never_ had to do an
> install; since it's OEM (bought new), I don't have the necessary media
> anyway. (AFAICR, it never nagged me to make any such either.)

You have to realize that's like saying you joined the infantry and went to
war and nobody shot at you so why would you need to know how to use a
weapon.

If you have ever had a hard disk crash on you, you'd need to do a new
install.

Also it's like saying you joined the infantry and went to war but never had
to sleep in mud. War is mud. It just is. At least to the infantry it is.

My analogy is that Windows 95/2k/xp gets slower over time, who knows why,
but perhaps because I turn off everything possible, even on Windows, which
might make some programs act screwy. Who knows why, but it does.

A re-install solves all that.
I used to reinstall about once a year but now it's once every three or four
years (unless a disk crashes).

> I _do_ Macrium image it from time to time, but have never had to
> actually use one, apart from the time the HD died. [I _was_ then about
> to do a clean install onto the replacement HD - I do have _some_ install
> media, and had been making _backups_ of my _data_ - but I did manage to
> unstick the HD, and it ran long enough to take an image. That's when I
> started imaging (-:]

Ok. So you did have a HDD die on you. It's normal. It happens to all of us.
Maybe less so with solid state drives nowadays.

>>I learned many years ago to never put anything in the "Documents and
>>Settings" folders or the "WINDOWS" folder, because they get so filled up
>>with junk from the operating system and other programs that they both are
>>just a big waste bin of sorts.
>
> I'm with you there!

Thanks for understanding. I have nothing against the "concept" of Microsoft
creating a standard place for programs and people to put their "stuff".

But what happens, in implementation, is that it's like using the bathroom
at Grand Central Station in NYC where everyone follows different hygienic
rules. There are cigarette burns in the seat, the toilet paper is strewn
all over the floor, which itself is wet, by what I don't even want to know.
The sinks are filled with paper towels, and the pink soap is globed all
over the mirrors.

The "Documents & Settings" hierarchy is just like Grand Central Station
rest rooms.

I used to clean it up. Constantly.
Then I just gave up.

Any folder Microsoft creates that programs know about is so filled with
garbage that it's just not worth using nor cleaning up.

Luckily, I create my own version of "documents and settings", which works
just fine because I am the only controlling what goes in there and I tell
which apps what to put there.

>>That's what "Documents and Settings" is like.
>
> I love the analogy!
>
>>All the programs & the operating system make an undisciplined mess of it.
>
> [As opposed to a disciplined mess (-:?]

Thanks for the word-use correction!

>>That's what my C:\my_files hierarchy is like.
>>None of the programs or operating system makes a mess of it.
>
> I suppose I do much the same, except that I have partitioned the HD, and
> keep all my data (including downloaded installers etc.) on D:, very
> rarely even opening C: in Explorer. (Of course I _change_ things on C:
> whenever I do anything on the desktop, start menu, and other such.)

The start menu, on Windows XP anyway, can easily be a link, so you don't
even have to keep the "real" start menu in the "Documents and Settings"
hierarchy. It's just a link that goes there.

Your real start menu is really a set of folders which have links in them,
which is kept *outside* the mess of Microsoft.

> Clearly, by "files I care about", you mean only your data, and
> installers you have downloaded. Same as my D:.

There are probably three types of files I care about, but I do agree your
"D:" partition is the same (perhaps better) concept as my c:\my_files and
c:\my_apps directories.

The three types of files we care about are:
1. Our actual data files (e.g., powerpoint slides, text files, pictures).
2. Our installers (which are a special case of "data" files).
3. Our rc files (the dot files) which "control" what apps do.

In only the third case is the situation tricky, e.g., Firefox loves to
stick profiles with horrid names in the worst location on the computer, and
Chrome is even a worse offender.

I used to maintain a single bookmarks file, for example, in my data
hierarchy, outside of the Firefox profile directory, but over time, I just
gave up on the concept of maintaining the user.js and .vimrc files in a
place where I want the programs to use them.

Instead, I hone the prefs.js/user.js, for example, and then I keep a
pristine *copy* of the well-honed setup file in my data hierarchy.

So I keep the VIM dotfiles there (.vimrc) and the Firefox user.js file,
etc. in the installer zip files hierarchy, along with the installers.

That way, when I re-install, I have both the installer archived and the
honed setup files, which I replace upon first invocation of the
newly-installed software.

My point is that you *can* keep everything organized - but - sometimes it's
easier to take a different road than what would otherwise be perfect.

>>All I can tell you is that I have had XP for years, which you know means I
>>have had to do clean installs multiple times and all I ever need are my
>>data files and my downloaded installers (and any software that came on hard
>>media).
>
> I know it means _you_ have had to, yes (-:.

Well. As you can see from my Windows 10 setup questions, I try to *control*
what the operating system does. That means I prevent services from
starting, and I disable anything that wants to start (ccleaner is great for
this) and I delete files that I don't know why they are on my system.

Once, very long ago, probably in Windows 95 days, I deleted the idiotically
located root directory files (pagefile.sys, or something like that,
whatever Windows 95 had at that time), where the result was that I couldn't
reboot (as you can imagine).

So I learned to leave the root files alone for example.
Same with cleaning up the WINDOWS directory.

I used to clean it up manually, but over time, I learned to leave it alone
(much to the delight of virus makers, I'm sure).

I also install free software and test out dozens of types in a week, so,
again, things get messed up over time.

If you keep the whole thing static (which I don't do), then I'm sure it
gets screwed up far less than mine does. Don't even ask what I do on my
mobile devices because you'd be horrified that I have to factory reset
frequently just to get the thing to reboot again.

It's just software. Everything can be easily rebuilt if you plan ahead.
I think 99.9% of people's problems is that they don't plan ahead to wipe
out the entire system to start fresh.

>>We could argue philosophy, where I wish the kids would maintain their
>>bathroom but kids will never do that so their bathroom isn't even worth
>>using.
>
> Not everyone has the luxury of two bathrooms. I _think_ I am right in
> saying that in the UK, it's still very much the exception: a second
> _WC_, which I know in US is sometimes called a bathroom (even though it
> doesn't have a bath in it!), _is_ becoming commoner, but from your
> lovely description above, you clearly are talking about a second
> BATHroom.

Oh. I'm in the USA. Typical suburbia. Million dollar homes that would cost
only a hundred thousand dollars if they were in Kansas. Silicon Valley
normal stuff. Everyone has a similar setup.

Most have 4 bedrooms (mine has more but 4 is about average).
Most have 2 baths (mine has many more, but it's not typical).
Most have a 2 or 3 car garage with a bit of work space.

Unlike the East Coast, almost none have basements (which is a travesty).
All have fenced-in back yards.
Sometimes a pool.
Almost always a kiddie play set.
And a shed.

Anyway ... the bathrooms are either full or 1/2 where I've never seen a
bathroom not full (but I'm sure they exist) which is a shower or tub in
addition to the toilet and sink.

The only other thing I wish they would have is a bidet. Sigh.

>>It's the same with any folder that software "knows" about since any folder
>>that Microsoft provides is so filled up with garbage (just like the kid's
>>bathroom) that it isn't worth dealing with.
>
> Agreed, except when one has to.

Yes. Sometimes I have to delve into the horrid "My Documents and Settings"
or "Program Files" folders, especially when dealing with arrogant software
developers such as those from Apple or Google or Microsoft who don't
respect your wishes.

For example, if you install iTunes, you can tell it where to go, but it
still put Quicktime and Bonjour in Program Files even if you told it to put
iTunes where you wanted it.

Arrogant stuff like that is mostly by the likes of the big companies with
the worst managed developers like Adobe, Motorola, Mozilla, etc. but even
Belarc did it, so, smaller outfits are as badly disciplined sometimes.

>>I just create my own folders that neither the operating system nor the
>>programs make a mess of and everything is fine.
>
> My D: partition.

Yup. Your D partition is *safer* than what I use on C: because the area
most likely to get corrupted is the stuff near the operating system (e.g.,
WINDOWS) so your partition is much safer than my lack of partition.

I agree.

>>Of course, I ensure that every data file that I care about is saved into
>>the proper location in C:\my_files\ so I know that I have never
>>purposefully put any files in C:\Documents and Settings\ and certainly I
>>don't put anything in C:\WINDOWS.
>
> I certainly rarely put anything in C:\Windows.

I think the only file I habitually put in C:\Windows is my edited version
of the MVP hosts file. If Windows could take a link, I wouldn't even keep
the hosts file there.

> Very occasionally, I find
> a utility that is well-behaved, and runs from a single executable, and I
> may put that executable in C:\Windows\utils (or C:\Windows if it _has_
> to be), but of course I've saved the installer or zip file I downloaded
> on D:.

I find the smaller downloaded programs far better behaved than those from
the likes of google, microsoft, adobe, etc.

>>
>>Every well written program will let you change the default location of its
>>file storage to C:\my_files\<where you want your files to be>.
>
> Agreed. (In my case D:\<wherever>.)

Yup. There are corner cases, e.g., the aforementioned Belarc doesn't even
ask, nor citePDF ask, as I recall.

Worse, idiotically designed programs such as iTunes respect your answer for
the main program, but not for the ancilliary programs it installs (e.g.,
bonjour, quicktime, etc.).

Here is a screenshot of my program files directory on Windows XP, where I
never put ANYTHING in there willingly, so every one went in under duress.
https://s22.postimg.org/trsnhyk75/program_files.gif
.
PS: I've heard people deprecate the "print screen" button, but, why?
It is simple, fast, and effective. I just paste into Irfanview & crop.
(Yes, I know about Alt+PrintScreen).

>>I do understand that most people put things into C:\Documents and Settings\
>>but I don't know how they find anything in that garbage pile.
>
> They probably only look via an application's "Open" dialog, never using
> Explorer at all.

I agree. I've seen, much to my horror, people download stuff right in front
of me, and then spend ten minutes searching for where they put it!

It's always shocking to me that adults act like kids when it comes to
putting their files where they belong.

[Tomos Davies]

In <news:0pCPA.679134$z83.4...@fx26.fr7>, David B. suggested:

> Thank you. :-)
>
> I've only ever noticed ONE other poster use the word!

You're welcome.

I tried to see whom you were speaking about, but unfortunately Google
doesn't archive this newsgroup:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/alt.comp.os.windows-10

Nor this newsgroup:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/alt.windows7.general

But Google does archive the windows xp newsgroup:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general

Searching there for the term "redact", the term comes up exactly six times,
four of which are in a signature by "dh" which instructs the user to
"redact lie to reply: dhex...@pacbell.net".
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/wt_cuVo_Ntw/sxOwkd_n_-4J
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/Vsmbodw-pbg/1Sl4tpRs5ugJ
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/XSECqzspjNo/VVCjS1I32bMJ
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/TFObHqTBrj4/deg3ECsrNMcJ

One of which is in this very thread, used by me:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/wHPd13Qtubc/Zd7AIcUlCAAJ

Where the only other instance appears to be in the use of "redactions":
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/NDGhy29PjgA/XTVaMIkuD8QJ

Which, upon reading, appears to be some type of religious spam.

Given those results, I heartily commend you for noticing my use of a
relatively common word which, apparently, is not at all in vogue on the
Windows-related newsgroups!

99% of intelligence is (INHO) in the ability to pay attention to detail.

[Shadow]

On Sun, 7 May 2017 17:38:51 +0100, "David B."

<Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:

>On 07/05/2017 17:27, Char Jackson wrote:
>> On Fri, 5 May 2017 23:37:23 +0100, "David B."
>> <Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 05/05/2017 22:58, John & Jane Doe wrote:
>>>> David B. wrote in <news:AQ5PA.642291$i7.9...@fx30.fr7>:
>>>>
>>>>> REDACT - who taught you that word?!!!
>>>>
>>>> Origin and Etymology of redact
>>>> Middle English, from Latin redactus, past participle of redigere
>>>>
>>>> First Known Use: 15th century
>>>> 1350-1400; Middle English < Latin redàctus (past participle of redigere to
>>>> lead back), equivalent to red- red- + àctus, past participle of agere to
>>>> lead;
>>>
>>>
>>> I repeat: *Who taught YOU that word*?!!!
>>
>> Hmm, obviously that word gives you a hinky. Can you explain why that is?
>
>Yes, of course ...... once you have provide the link to your REAL
>identity at LinkedIn.
>
>Will you do that, Char?

This is Usenet, IOW optionally anonymous.
"Good guys" keep their personal details secret to protect
themselves and their families from STALKERS, SPAMMERS, PEDOPHILES and
other filth.
But you already know that.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <oeo0ml$jkn$2...@news.mixmin.net>, John & Jane Doe
<johnNj...@is.invalid> writes:
[]

>Ok. So you did have a HDD die on you. It's normal. It happens to all of us.
>Maybe less so with solid state drives nowadays.

(I'm not convinced - about SSDs, that is. Although my most recent one
_was_ without warning, I still feel HDs _usually_ give some indication
they're failing; I've yet to hear that SSDs do.)
[]

>Thanks for understanding. I have nothing against the "concept" of Microsoft
>creating a standard place for programs and people to put their "stuff".

[]

>The "Documents & Settings" hierarchy is just like Grand Central Station
>rest rooms.
>
>I used to clean it up. Constantly.
>Then I just gave up.

Some would say that's why you have to reinstall so often (-:. I wouldn't
be one of those saying that, because I've mostly given up trying to keep
on top of assorted bits of Windows, too.

>
>Any folder Microsoft creates that programs know about is so filled with
>garbage that it's just not worth using nor cleaning up.

Agreed.
[]

>The start menu, on Windows XP anyway, can easily be a link, so you don't
>even have to keep the "real" start menu in the "Documents and Settings"
>hierarchy. It's just a link that goes there.

Wouldn't that make an extra level you have to go through in Start |
Programs? (And how about the desktop?)
[]

>There are probably three types of files I care about, but I do agree your
>"D:" partition is the same (perhaps better) concept as my c:\my_files and
>c:\my_apps directories.

Glad you agree - see below.

>
>The three types of files we care about are:
>1. Our actual data files (e.g., powerpoint slides, text files, pictures).
>2. Our installers (which are a special case of "data" files).
>3. Our rc files (the dot files) which "control" what apps do.

I hadn't seen them called rc files before.
[]

>My point is that you *can* keep everything organized - but - sometimes it's
>easier to take a different road than what would otherwise be perfect.

Agreed.
[]

>Well. As you can see from my Windows 10 setup questions, I try to *control*
>what the operating system does. That means I prevent services from

It's a constant, and uphill, battle, though, isn't it! (It really
_shouldn't_ be like that. But we've let them get away with it for too
long.)
[]

>> Not everyone has the luxury of two bathrooms. I _think_ I am right in
>> saying that in the UK, it's still very much the exception: a second
>> _WC_, which I know in US is sometimes called a bathroom (even though it
>> doesn't have a bath in it!), _is_ becoming commoner, but from your
>> lovely description above, you clearly are talking about a second
>> BATHroom.
>
>Oh. I'm in the USA. Typical suburbia. Million dollar homes that would cost
>only a hundred thousand dollars if they were in Kansas. Silicon Valley
>normal stuff. Everyone has a similar setup.
>
>Most have 4 bedrooms (mine has more but 4 is about average).

3 is large in UK.

>Most have 2 baths (mine has many more, but it's not typical).

Rare here.

>Most have a 2 or 3 car garage with a bit of work space.

Many don't have one car-parking space )-:.

>
>Unlike the East Coast, almost none have basements (which is a travesty).

Rare here too; virtually universal in Germany.

>All have fenced-in back yards.

(Can be confusing: I think US "yard" = UK "garden"; in UK, a yard has a
hard surface, such as cement or brick.)
>Sometimes a pool.
Very rare here - not only not enough space, but too cold!

>Almost always a kiddie play set.

If you mean climbing frame and slide, not _that_ common here.
>And a shed.
Most who have a (back) garden (your "yard" I think) here have a shed.

>
>Anyway ... the bathrooms are either full or 1/2 where I've never seen a
>bathroom not full (but I'm sure they exist) which is a shower or tub in
>addition to the toilet and sink.
>
>The only other thing I wish they would have is a bidet. Sigh.

Ah, bidets are here again ...
[]

>For example, if you install iTunes, you can tell it where to go, but it
>still put Quicktime and Bonjour in Program Files even if you told it to put
>iTunes where you wanted it.

I have no intention of ever installing iTunes (-:!
[]

>>>I just create my own folders that neither the operating system nor the
>>>programs make a mess of and everything is fine.
>>
>> My D: partition.
>
>Yup. Your D partition is *safer* than what I use on C: because the area
>most likely to get corrupted is the stuff near the operating system (e.g.,
>WINDOWS) so your partition is much safer than my lack of partition.

Yes, that's why I started doing it. Yes, hard drives will fail
eventually, so I keep my D: copied as well, but at least one of the
things that can screw up C: is you or something else doing something
that renders it unbootable, such that a format may be necessary - in
which case any folder on C: is lost; up to XP, at least, I think you can
reformat and reinstall to C: without D: being affected. [FWIW, my C: is
exactly 40G, of which 5.81 G is currently free.]
[]

>I find the smaller downloaded programs far better behaved than those from
>the likes of google, microsoft, adobe, etc.
>

Agreed. And tend to be better-written, too. (I admire the fact that
IrfanView, for example, until relatively recently had an installer that
would still fit on a floppy.)

>PS: I've heard people deprecate the "print screen" button, but, why?
>It is simple, fast, and effective. I just paste into Irfanview & crop.
>(Yes, I know about Alt+PrintScreen).

Yes, I've seen much praise of this grabby thing that comes with 7; I'm
sure it _does_ have advantages, but I haven't found any need to learn
its foibles. In much the same way as I can't understand the point of
OneNote, that comes as an optional part of recent versions of MS Office.

>
>>>I do understand that most people put things into C:\Documents and Settings\
>>>but I don't know how they find anything in that garbage pile.
>>
>> They probably only look via an application's "Open" dialog, never using
>> Explorer at all.
>
>I agree. I've seen, much to my horror, people download stuff right in front
>of me, and then spend ten minutes searching for where they put it!
>
>It's always shocking to me that adults act like kids when it comes to
>putting their files where they belong.

I'm sure there are lots of things others do that irritate us (for me one
of them is watching someone fill in a webform, using the mouse to move
between fields and to click the OK button when they're finished, rather
than tab and enter). Equally, I'm sure there are things I do - both
within computing and outside it - that drive others up the wall.

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

You know what the big secret about posh people is? Most of them are lovely.
- Richard Osman, RT 2016/7/9-15

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <oeo0mk$jkn$1...@news.mixmin.net>, John & Jane Doe
<johnNj...@is.invalid> writes:
[]

>What is this Glary stuff?
>Searching, I find http://www.glarysoft.com/glary-utilities/
>
>I just put the installer in:
> C:\my_progs\cleaners\registry\glary\
>
>I will test it out.\
>https://s24.postimg.org/xbf0g7i91/gary.gif
>
>NOTE: It wants to install maiagames whatever that is, and wants me to join
>their "customer experience" which sure doesn't sound like something I want
>to do.
>
>As always, I pulled the Ethernet plug when I started it, where it tried to
>phone home to
>http://www.glarysoft.com/update/release-notes/?p=1&v=6.77.6.92&l=1

I use my ancient KPF (Kerio Personal Firewall), which seems to catch all
such attempts. It's _amazing_ just how many such calls some prog.s make!
[]

>However, it does have a nice startup manager interface though.
>1. startup https://s4.postimg.org/bevbtcodp/gary_startup.gif
>2. scheduled https://s7.postimg.org/3tojbahvv/gary_scheduled.gif
>3. plugins https://s9.postimg.org/cqu06a7jz/gary_plugins.gif
>4. applications https://s11.postimg.org/5hyuf6irn/gary_application.gif
>5. windows https://s15.postimg.org/qd48b8ji3/gary_windows.gif
>
>It seems like a nice util, as long as it's run only offline.

[]

>Gary seemed to find things that ccleaner did not, so I concur.
>I first ran Ccleaner, then Gary's registry cleaner.
>Here is the result: https://s21.postimg.org/4xfi2ghyv/gary_registry.gif
>
>NOTE: As a double check, I ran ccleaner after Gary but it found nothing.

You got it right the first two times, then you left the l out. [Who's
this Gary person? (-:] (FWIW, I don't think I use Glary; I've seen it
mentioned enough times here that I keep thinking of investigating it,
but haven't yet acquired a suitable tuit.)

>
>>>Both cleaners will nag from time to time to upgrade to paid version but
>>>I just ignore that. The are worth the nags I think.
>
>I never upgrade until a gun is put to my head.
>Or until there is something I know I need.
>Which rarely happens.

Likewise. There's usually something I _don't_ want, like the new UI at
about Firefox 28. (And the whole philosophy of Windows 10.)

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"... four Oscars, and two further nominations ... On these criteria, he's
Britain's most successful film director." Powell or Pressburger? no; Richard
Attenborough? no; Nick Park!

[Ant]

In alt.comp.os.windows-10 "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JP...@255soft.uk> wrote:
> In message <oeo0mk$jkn$1...@news.mixmin.net>, John & Jane Doe
> <johnNj...@is.invalid> writes:
> []
> >What is this Glary stuff?
> >Searching, I find http://www.glarysoft.com/glary-utilities/
> >
> >I just put the installer in:
> > C:\my_progs\cleaners\registry\glary\
> >
> >I will test it out.\
> >https://s24.postimg.org/xbf0g7i91/gary.gif
> >
> >NOTE: It wants to install maiagames whatever that is, and wants me to join
> >their "customer experience" which sure doesn't sound like something I want
> >to do.
> >
> >As always, I pulled the Ethernet plug when I started it, where it tried to
> >phone home to
> >http://www.glarysoft.com/update/release-notes/?p=1&v=6.77.6.92&l=1

> I use my ancient KPF (Kerio Personal Firewall), which seems to catch all
> such attempts. It's _amazing_ just how many such calls some prog.s make!

Which version of KPF? I miss the very old version that I used to use in
Windows XP Pro SP3.
--
Quote of the Week: "Busy as ants hurrying orcs were digging, digging
lines of deep trenches in a huge ring, just out of bowshot from the
walls;" --The Return of the King (book)
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit-
( ) ing, then please kindly use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <3pqdnai-tIOOMZLE...@earthlink.com>, Ant

<ANT...@zimage.com> writes:
>In alt.comp.os.windows-10 "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JP...@255soft.uk> wrote:
>> In message <oeo0mk$jkn$1...@news.mixmin.net>, John & Jane Doe
>> <johnNj...@is.invalid> writes:
[]

>> >As always, I pulled the Ethernet plug when I started it, where it tried to
>> >phone home to
>> >http://www.glarysoft.com/update/release-notes/?p=1&v=6.77.6.92&l=1
>
>> I use my ancient KPF (Kerio Personal Firewall), which seems to catch all
>> such attempts. It's _amazing_ just how many such calls some prog.s make!
>
>Which version of KPF? I miss the very old version that I used to use in
>Windows XP Pro SP3.

2.1.5. I think that's the last before something.

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

And Jonathan Harker would never have sent all those letters to his beloved
Mina from Transylvania, he'd have texted her instead. "Stuck in weird castle w
guy w big teeth. Missing u. xxxx (-:" - Alison Graham, RT 2015/11/7-13

[Ant]

In alt.windows7.general "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JP...@255soft.uk> wrote:
...

> >> I use my ancient KPF (Kerio Personal Firewall), which seems to catch all
> >> such attempts. It's _amazing_ just how many such calls some prog.s make!
> >
> >Which version of KPF? I miss the very old version that I used to use in
> >Windows XP Pro SP3.
> 2.1.5. I think that's the last before something.

Yeah, that is what I used. So, it works perfectly in the newer 64-bit
Windows versions? I thought it wasn't compatible.

[John & Jane Doe]

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote in <news:wLRsQrv2...@soft255.demon.co.uk>:

>>The start menu, on Windows XP anyway, can easily be a link, so you don't
>>even have to keep the "real" start menu in the "Documents and Settings"
>>hierarchy. It's just a link that goes there.
>
> Wouldn't that make an extra level you have to go through in Start |
> Programs? (And how about the desktop?)

I keep the desktop clean, with only "My Computer" on it, since all the
directories I need are in the quick launch bar on WinXP. I'll want to
replicate that on Windows 10.

My WinXP start menu can't be completely reproduced on Windows 10 but to
answer your question, I don't understand how you could say it's an "extra'
level to go through.

Remember, my mind for the past 20 years has organized, say, Ccleaner, as
being in "cleaners" "ccleaner", so, that's what I expect to see in my menu.
Start > menu > cleaners > ccleaner

I completely ignore "Start > Programs" as it is a complete waste. Yes, in
the olden days, I tried to keep it clean, but it just wasn't worth the
trouble. All I do is put my "menu" folder at the same level as "programs"
and then I never need to go to Start > Programs.

Actually, my menu folder is a link to my real menus, but that is just a
detail.

The start menu on Windows 10 is going to take some getting used to.
https://s15.postimg.org/r0nz0wk17/windows_start_menu.gif

What is all that stuff about?
- Life at a glance? What? What is that?
All I want "at a glance" is:
a. Access to my folders (which is usually in my WinXP QuickLaunch).
b. Access to my main programs (which in WinXP is in the start menu).
That's it.
There's nothing else I *could* want to access at the desktop.
1. Folders
2. Programs
Why make it so complicated?
Can I make that "life at a glance" show just what I want?
a. My data folder and my menu folder and my temp folder and that's it for
folders.
b. My app hierarchy of shortcuts (and that's it for programs).

Looking at the other half of that Windows 10 picture, I see
- Play and explore! WTF? Play and explore?
What do they think we do with the computer.
"Oh, I have nothing to do today, so let's play and explore!!!!!.
Are they nuts?
What's on that Play and Explore anyway?
Solitaire! Are you kidding? Really? OMG.
The first and last time I did that was my first exposure to Win95.
Can I make that "play and explore" something useful?

What's the theory here?
If all I want are to replicate what I could do on WinXP and get rid of all
that other crap, what's the recommended Windows 10 approach?

Here's all I want access to at the desktop:
1. My three folders, data, applications, and temporary stuff.
2. My quick launch quick access set of folders & apps (about 10 in toto)
3. Then I need a menu to the entire list of shortcuts to apps I've
installed

I don't need *anything* else on the desktop.
What is the best way to accomplish that simple task on Windows 10?

[John & Jane Doe]

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote in <news:wLRsQrv2...@soft255.demon.co.uk>:

> (I'm not convinced - about SSDs, that is. Although my most recent one
> _was_ without warning, I still feel HDs _usually_ give some indication
> they're failing; I've yet to hear that SSDs do.)
> []

I think ssd drives are fine for laptops, especially fanless tiny ones, due
to battery life, jolting, heat issues, and fast bootup.

But they're not yet cost effective for terabyte storage.
They're not for me on this desktop anyway.

> Some would say that's why you have to reinstall so often.
I completely understand.
Basically, most people, if they don't know what a switch is for, they leave
it alone.

Me?
If I don't know what a switch is for, I turn it off.
If something happens that I care about, I turn it back on, but, more often
than not, something happens ten days later when I've already futzed with
two dozen other things.

Luckily, anyone can recover from anything with a full re-install!

> I hadn't seen them called rc files before.

Oh. sorry. RC === run control
It's a very common Unix/Linux term, which I figured was known here.
~/.exrc for example is the run control file for the vi editor, as I recall.
I think VIM might use .vimrc, for example.

It's just a "dotfile" or "run control" file, which is just something the
program consults upon startup to get its settings.

It's a typical UNIX thing more so than Windows though.

> It's a constant, and uphill, battle, though, isn't it! (It really
> _shouldn't_ be like that. But we've let them get away with it for too
> long.)

Philosophically we're doomed because those who try to bend Windows to their
needs are 1 out of 100 or maybe even 1 out of 1,000, where the hoi polloi
set the rules for everyone.

I just shut off a zillion Windows 10 privacy sliders.
To you and me they should have one and only one (with a zillion sub
sliders).

The first and only slider would be:
Q: Do you want privacy ... yes, or no?

If you say "yes", it should shut off all zillion of those sliders.
If you say "no", then it can present you with those zillion sliders.

Alas. Will never happen.
So I will be turning off sliders for weeks on end, I'm sure.
And even then, I've been warned the MVP HOSTS file doesn't work.
(How can that possibly be?)

[John & Jane Doe]

>>Most have 4 bedrooms (mine has more but 4 is about average).
> 3 is large in UK.

3 bedrooms is nothing in suburbia.
Anyway, that's a different topic altogether.

>>Most have 2 baths (mine has many more, but it's not typical).
> Rare here.

Heh. I guess you're in a city?

>>Most have a 2 or 3 car garage with a bit of work space.
> Many don't have one car-parking space )-:.

You seem to be in a city.
Cities are different.
Way different.

>>Unlike the East Coast, almost none have basements (which is a travesty).
> Rare here too; virtually universal in Germany.

Basements are wonderful.
It's sad that they don't do them in the Silicon Valley.
Very sad.

>>All have fenced-in back yards.
> (Can be confusing: I think US "yard" = UK "garden"; in UK, a yard has a
> hard surface, such as cement or brick.)

Oh. Here in the US, a "yard" is the front and back.
Most have acres of land outside of suburbia, but inside of suburbia, it's
smaller. In the east coast you have half acre yards a lot and a few acres a
lot, but in California they're nuts and pack them in to postage stamp
lawns. Such is the life of supply and demand.

>>Sometimes a pool.
> Very rare here - not only not enough space, but too cold!

Heh heh ... heated by the sun out here.

>>Almost always a kiddie play set.
> If you mean climbing frame and slide, not _that_ common here.

Here they have slides, and swings, and other things.
My kids ALWAYS had them at least.

>>And a shed.
> Most who have a (back) garden (your "yard" I think) here have a shed.

A shed is where the lawn mower, leaf blower, chain saw, hedge trimmer,
string trimmer, etc. goes, along with the gasoline you don't want to keep
in the garage.

> Ah, bidets are here again ...

Since we have septic systems, a bidet saves on tissue paper going into a
tank where it mostly just turns to sludge and has to be pumped out again.
If I had a bidet, it could pay for itself in not needing the system pumped
every few years.

Plus, if it's warm, it cleans much good'er than does tissue paper.

> I have no intention of ever installing iTunes (-:!

Understood. It's an abomination. I was just saying how badly behaved it
was, in that you can tell it where to go but it still puts crap in program
files.

> Yes, that's why I started doing it. Yes, hard drives will fail
> eventually, so I keep my D: copied as well, but at least one of the
> things that can screw up C: is you or something else doing something
> that renders it unbootable, such that a format may be necessary - in
> which case any folder on C: is lost; up to XP, at least, I think you can
> reformat and reinstall to C: without D: being affected. [FWIW, my C: is
> exactly 40G, of which 5.81 G is currently free.]

Yup. Your D partition is better.
Its' the same concept as my directories, only better protected by the
partition.

> Agreed. And tend to be better-written, too. (I admire the fact that
> IrfanView, for example, until relatively recently had an installer that
> would still fit on a floppy.)

Irfanview is great.
As is Windows Media Player Classic (with the Klite codec packs).
Also IZARc and Ccleaner and Paint.NET (although I hate .net).

> Yes, I've seen much praise of this grabby thing that comes with 7; I'm
> sure it _does_ have advantages, but I haven't found any need to learn
> its foibles.

If I need a *lot* of screenshots, I use Irfanview which has plenty of
capturing methods. Otherwise I just use print screen.

Someone is gonna have to explain to me why a screenshot program is any
better than those two for capturing.

For editing the screenshot, nothing is better than Paint.NET (although I
hate .NET).

> In much the same way as I can't understand the point of
> OneNote, that comes as an optional part of recent versions of MS Office.

I don't even know what that is.

> I'm sure there are lots of things others do that irritate us (for me one
> of them is watching someone fill in a webform, using the mouse to move
> between fields and to click the OK button when they're finished, rather
> than tab and enter). Equally, I'm sure there are things I do - both
> within computing and outside it - that drive others up the wall.

Yeah, the tab key jumps between fields.
I've seen people blueselect stuff, and then hit the backspace key one by
one to get rid of twenty characters when they could just start typing which
would wipe them all out with the first character.

Such are peeves.

[John & Jane Doe]

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote in <news:6cze1jw$l5DZ...@soft255.demon.co.uk>:

> I use my ancient KPF (Kerio Personal Firewall), which seems to catch all
> such attempts. It's _amazing_ just how many such calls some prog.s make!

Firewall is a better way than what I do, which is pull the plug.

> You got it right the first two times, then you left the l out. [Who's
> this Gary person? (-:] (FWIW, I don't think I use Glary; I've seen it
> mentioned enough times here that I keep thinking of investigating it,
> but haven't yet acquired a suitable tuit.)

It must be round.

>>I never upgrade until a gun is put to my head.
>>Or until there is something I know I need.
>>Which rarely happens.
>
> Likewise. There's usually something I _don't_ want, like the new UI at
> about Firefox 28. (And the whole philosophy of Windows 10.)

Yup. I don't upgrade unless I have to because there's usually nothing
worthwhile, and often things we don't want.

Security is an issue though. Sigh.

[Char Jackson]

On Sun, 7 May 2017 17:38:51 +0100, "David B."

<Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:

>On 07/05/2017 17:27, Char Jackson wrote:
>> On Fri, 5 May 2017 23:37:23 +0100, "David B."
>> <Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 05/05/2017 22:58, John & Jane Doe wrote:
>>>> David B. wrote in <news:AQ5PA.642291$i7.9...@fx30.fr7>:
>>>>
>>>>> REDACT - who taught you that word?!!!
>>>>
>>>> Origin and Etymology of redact
>>>> Middle English, from Latin redactus, past participle of redigere
>>>>
>>>> First Known Use: 15th century
>>>> 1350-1400; Middle English < Latin redàctus (past participle of redigere to
>>>> lead back), equivalent to red- red- + àctus, past participle of agere to
>>>> lead;
>>>
>>>
>>> I repeat: *Who taught YOU that word*?!!!
>>
>> Hmm, obviously that word gives you a hinky. Can you explain why that is?
>
>Yes, of course ...... once you have provide the link to your REAL
>identity at LinkedIn.
>
>Will you do that, Char?

I thought you had already picked one at random. Now, back to my
question. Why does redaction give you a hinky?

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <AYCdnUbXKes0V5LE...@earthlink.com>, Ant

<ANT...@zimage.com> writes:
>In alt.windows7.general "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JP...@255soft.uk> wrote:
>...
>> >> I use my ancient KPF (Kerio Personal Firewall), which seems to catch all
>> >> such attempts. It's _amazing_ just how many such calls some prog.s make!
>> >
>> >Which version of KPF? I miss the very old version that I used to use in
>> >Windows XP Pro SP3.
>> 2.1.5. I think that's the last before something.
>
>Yeah, that is what I used. So, it works perfectly in the newer 64-bit
>Windows versions? I thought it wasn't compatible.

No, I'm using it here on XP-32. I can't remember what I've got for W7; I
use the W7 machine once in a blue moon, mainly for Skype and TeamViewer.
(And those mainly because it's more powerful and has a big screen,
rather than because it's W7.)

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Chuck Berry was once asked what he thought of Elvis Presley and he said, "He
got what he wanted, but he lost what he had." [Quoted by Anne Widdicombe, in
Radio Times 8-14 October 2011.]

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <oeondt$150$3...@news.mixmin.net>, John & Jane Doe
<johnNj...@is.invalid> writes:
[]

>Yup. I don't upgrade unless I have to because there's usually nothing
>worthwhile, and often things we don't want.
>
>Security is an issue though. Sigh.

So they keep telling us. I don't online bank (I telephone bank), and I
haven't had a virus since Windows 9x (and that was only because, out of
curiosity, I took an attachment out of a dodgy-looking email just to
scan it; sure enough, it was infected, so I deleted it).

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <oeolt7$ua6$1...@news.mixmin.net>, John & Jane Doe

<johnNj...@is.invalid> writes:
>J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote in <news:wLRsQrv2...@soft255.demon.co.uk>:
>
>> (I'm not convinced - about SSDs, that is. Although my most recent one
>> _was_ without warning, I still feel HDs _usually_ give some indication
>> they're failing; I've yet to hear that SSDs do.)
>> []
>
>I think ssd drives are fine for laptops, especially fanless tiny ones, due
>to battery life, jolting, heat issues, and fast bootup.
>
>But they're not yet cost effective for terabyte storage.
>They're not for me on this desktop anyway.

Agreed, though my main concern is sudden death rather than cost.

>
>> Some would say that's why you have to reinstall so often.
>I completely understand.
>Basically, most people, if they don't know what a switch is for, they leave
>it alone.
>
>Me?
>If I don't know what a switch is for, I turn it off.
>If something happens that I care about, I turn it back on, but, more often
>than not, something happens ten days later when I've already futzed with
>two dozen other things.
>
>Luckily, anyone can recover from anything with a full re-install!

Though in your case, every such reinstall must be followed by lots of
changes to what you call switches, to get the system back how you want
it: either that, or how you want it is very close to the default, which
I don't think is the case from what you've been saying. Such switches
having to be made for every piece of software (which you also would have
to reinstall), too. I am pretty certain I'd prefer just to restore a
Macrium image - then everything's back exactly how I want it, or at
least how it was when I made the image, so the only changes I would have
to make would be those I'd made (and wanted!) since making the image.
Each to his own way though!

>
>> I hadn't seen them called rc files before.
>Oh. sorry. RC === run control
>It's a very common Unix/Linux term, which I figured was known here.
>~/.exrc for example is the run control file for the vi editor, as I recall.
>I think VIM might use .vimrc, for example.
>
>It's just a "dotfile" or "run control" file, which is just something the
>program consults upon startup to get its settings.
>
>It's a typical UNIX thing more so than Windows though.

Yes, I'm pretty sure you're right. Windows-speak for the same concept is
probably .ini files, but (for reasons I've never grasped other than
_possibly_ startup speed and [I suspect more likely] fashion), they seem
not to be used much these days, such settings being stored in the
registry.
[]

>I just shut off a zillion Windows 10 privacy sliders.

[Which you have to do all over again, every time you do one of your
"clean install"s. OK, I'll stop saying that now ... (-:]

>To you and me they should have one and only one (with a zillion sub
>sliders).
>
>The first and only slider would be:
>Q: Do you want privacy ... yes, or no?
>
>If you say "yes", it should shut off all zillion of those sliders.
>If you say "no", then it can present you with those zillion sliders.
>
>Alas. Will never happen.

Indeed.

>So I will be turning off sliders for weeks on end, I'm sure.
>And even then, I've been warned the MVP HOSTS file doesn't work.
>(How can that possibly be?)

(I don't know "MVP HOSTS file"; I do know "hosts file", which I use to
block lots of websites. Is that what you mean, or something different?)

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Where [other presenters] tackle the world with a box of watercolours, he
takes a spanner. - David Butcher (on Guy Martin), RT 2015/1/31-2/6

[Char Jackson]

On Mon, 8 May 2017 20:12:33 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
<G6JP...@255soft.uk> wrote:

>(I don't know "MVP HOSTS file"; I do know "hosts file", which I use to
>block lots of websites. Is that what you mean, or something different?)

It's essentially the same as your hosts file, but with a huge number of
entries, like around 50,000 or more.

I tried it for a very short time back in the 90's, but it wasn't my cup
of tea. If you try it, you might want to rename your existing hosts file
before dropping the big one in its place, just in case you want to
revert at some point.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <oeomck$v2p$1...@news.mixmin.net>, John & Jane Doe

<johnNj...@is.invalid> writes:
>
>>>Most have 4 bedrooms (mine has more but 4 is about average).
>> 3 is large in UK.
>
>3 bedrooms is nothing in suburbia.
>Anyway, that's a different topic altogether.

By those standards, much of England (I can't speak for Scotland, Wales,
or NI) is suburbia, then. Well, actually, 3bed isn't common.

>
>>>Most have 2 baths (mine has many more, but it's not typical).
>> Rare here.
>
>Heh. I guess you're in a city?

Even in so-called rural areas, big houses aren't _that_ common.
[]

>Basements are wonderful.
>It's sad that they don't do them in the Silicon Valley.
>Very sad.

Agreed - here too.

>
>>>All have fenced-in back yards.
>> (Can be confusing: I think US "yard" = UK "garden"; in UK, a yard has a
>> hard surface, such as cement or brick.)
>Oh. Here in the US, a "yard" is the front and back.

But isn't a hard surface, but soil.

>Most have acres of land outside of suburbia, but inside of suburbia, it's
>smaller. In the east coast you have half acre yards a lot and a few acres a
>lot, but in California they're nuts and pack them in to postage stamp
>lawns. Such is the life of supply and demand.

Britain has a population of, I think, about 70 million. Look at its
size.
[]

>>>And a shed.
>> Most who have a (back) garden (your "yard" I think) here have a shed.
>A shed is where the lawn mower, leaf blower, chain saw, hedge trimmer,
>string trimmer, etc. goes, along with the gasoline you don't want to keep
>in the garage.

In theory, same here (though these days they often go in the garage,
even to the extent that sometimes there isn't room for the car!); the
shed can also be a (usually male, though not always) refuge, where
hobbies are practiced and/or to which he escapes.

>
>> Ah, bidets are here again ...
>
>Since we have septic systems, a bidet saves on tissue paper going into a
>tank where it mostly just turns to sludge and has to be pumped out again.
>If I had a bidet, it could pay for itself in not needing the system pumped
>every few years.
>
>Plus, if it's warm, it cleans much good'er than does tissue paper.

I think you missed my (recycling of a Willie Rushton) reference to
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l39Wa34d7NE ... (-:
[]

>I've seen people blueselect stuff, and then hit the backspace key one by
>one to get rid of twenty characters when they could just start typing which
>would wipe them all out with the first character.

Yes, indeed, another one that's painful to watch!
[]

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

[Ant]

In alt.comp.os.windows-10 "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JP...@255soft.uk> wrote:
> In message <AYCdnUbXKes0V5LE...@earthlink.com>, Ant
> <ANT...@zimage.com> writes:
> >In alt.windows7.general "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JP...@255soft.uk> wrote:
> >...
> >> >> I use my ancient KPF (Kerio Personal Firewall), which seems to catch all
> >> >> such attempts. It's _amazing_ just how many such calls some prog.s make!
> >> >
> >> >Which version of KPF? I miss the very old version that I used to use in
> >> >Windows XP Pro SP3.
> >> 2.1.5. I think that's the last before something.
> >
> >Yeah, that is what I used. So, it works perfectly in the newer 64-bit
> >Windows versions? I thought it wasn't compatible.

> No, I'm using it here on XP-32. I can't remember what I've got for W7; I
> use the W7 machine once in a blue moon, mainly for Skype and TeamViewer.
> (And those mainly because it's more powerful and has a big screen,
> rather than because it's W7.)

Ah. I had to stop using KPF in 32-bit XP because of its blue screen
crashes. See
https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r25920008-Firewall-to-replace-Kerio ,
https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r23283834-, etc. :(

I couldn't find a good replacement for my 64-bit W7 HPE SP1. PC Tools
Firewall v7 is OK. It crashes once in a while, but at least it is not
hard crashes like blue screens.

[John & Jane Doe]

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote in <news:DEjQzjFhMMEZFw$b...@soft255.demon.co.uk>:

>>But they're not yet cost effective for terabyte storage.
>>They're not for me on this desktop anyway.
>
> Agreed, though my main concern is sudden death rather than cost.

Understood. Sudden death is bad.

>>> Some would say that's why you have to reinstall so often.

> Though in your case, every such reinstall must be followed by lots of
> changes to what you call switches, to get the system back how you want
> it: either that, or how you want it is very close to the default, which
> I don't think is the case from what you've been saying.

Actually, the B-E-A-U-T-Y of my setup is that there are very few changes to
the system and, even better, the changes are no different from one computer
to another and even from one operating system to another!

For example, whether I'm on Windows XP computer 1 or Windows XP computer 2
or Windows 10 computer or even Linux computer 1, the menu system is
*exactly* the same functionality!

Windows XP menu:
https://s22.postimg.org/fymg8fwip/typical_winxp_startmenu.gif

Widows 10 menu:
https://s18.postimg.org/yp72v4vix/classic_startmenu.gif

They're the same.
You know why?

Because we all do pretty much the same things on all desktops.

> Such switches
> having to be made for every piece of software (which you also would have
> to reinstall), too. I am pretty certain I'd prefer just to restore a
> Macrium image - then everything's back exactly how I want it, or at
> least how it was when I made the image, so the only changes I would have
> to make would be those I'd made (and wanted!) since making the image.
> Each to his own way though!

The trick here is to set up each program once, and then, if you're lucky,
you have a "dotfile" that you can use forever to keep the program honest.

For example, this "user.js" file for Firefox works on Linux, and Windows
XP, and on Windows Pro, and even on Android.
https://www.ghacks.net/2017/02/12/ghacks-net-firefox-user-js-config-0-11-is-out/

That same user.js text file works on all systems.

Same with the MVP hosts file.
http://winhelp2002.mvps.org/hosts.htm

Same with a good VIM run control file.
https://dougblack.io/words/a-good-vimrc.html

Setup is cross platform for some well-written programs.

>>I just shut off a zillion Windows 10 privacy sliders.
>
> [Which you have to do all over again, every time you do one of your
> "clean install"s. OK, I'll stop saying that now ... (-:]

The way I get around a *lot* of the settings is that I keep a folder
hierarchy that is *outside* the stuff that the operating system maintains,
whether that's on Linux or Windows.

Then I just archive the folder (and menu) hierarchy.
Then I bring it back to the newly installed system.

Since it's OUTSIDE the typical menu and folder hierarchy, the programs and
operating system don't poop all over it.

For example, notice these two menus outside the Windows 10 "Programs" menu.
https://s9.postimg.org/u95xs8ocv/two_menus_confuses_win10.gif

In the end, I'm only going to have one, either the Win10 menu method:
https://s14.postimg.org/zco7bcjcx/win10menu_loc.gif
Or the Classic Start menu method:

But the point is that the only way to keep it clean and portable is to keep
it OUTSIDE the existing menu hierarchies that programs poop all over.
https://s28.postimg.org/s9al5b08d/winxpmenu_loc.gif

Just like I did with the Windows XP menus being outside the hierarchy.
Menu:
https://s22.postimg.org/fymg8fwip/typical_winxp_startmenu.gif
Hierarchy:
https://s14.postimg.org/kfzunsbkx/windowsxp_menu_location.gif

So, if you plan it right, and you stay out of any folder that the operating
system allows apps to pollute, it's a pretty portable system, which even
ports across operating systems at times but which certainly easily ports
across computers of the same operating system.

So I set up the same menu on all my desktops that way.
Same hosts file on all my desktops (and even Android).
Same user.js files and run control files on all computers.
etc.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <C7KdnanmIKaCiYzE...@earthlink.com>, Ant

<ANT...@zimage.com> writes:
>In alt.comp.os.windows-10 "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JP...@255soft.uk> wrote:
>> In message <AYCdnUbXKes0V5LE...@earthlink.com>, Ant

[]

>> >> 2.1.5. I think that's the last before something.

[]

>Ah. I had to stop using KPF in 32-bit XP because of its blue screen
>crashes. See
>https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r25920008-Firewall-to-replace-Kerio ,
>https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r23283834-, etc. :(

[]
Ah. I've never had one; bad luck.

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Imagine a world with no hypothetical situations...

[Shadow]

On Mon, 08 May 2017 19:58:07 -0500, ANT...@zimage.com (Ant) wrote:

>In alt.comp.os.windows-10 "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JP...@255soft.uk> wrote:
>> In message <AYCdnUbXKes0V5LE...@earthlink.com>, Ant
>> <ANT...@zimage.com> writes:
>> >In alt.windows7.general "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JP...@255soft.uk> wrote:
>> >...
>> >> >> I use my ancient KPF (Kerio Personal Firewall), which seems to catch all
>> >> >> such attempts. It's _amazing_ just how many such calls some prog.s make!
>> >> >
>> >> >Which version of KPF? I miss the very old version that I used to use in
>> >> >Windows XP Pro SP3.
>> >> 2.1.5. I think that's the last before something.
>> >
>> >Yeah, that is what I used. So, it works perfectly in the newer 64-bit
>> >Windows versions? I thought it wasn't compatible.
>
>> No, I'm using it here on XP-32. I can't remember what I've got for W7; I
>> use the W7 machine once in a blue moon, mainly for Skype and TeamViewer.
>> (And those mainly because it's more powerful and has a big screen,
>> rather than because it's W7.)
>
>Ah. I had to stop using KPF in 32-bit XP because of its blue screen
>crashes. See
>https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r25920008-Firewall-to-replace-Kerio ,
>https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r23283834-, etc. :(

You need a registry edit:

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\fwdrv]
"MaxBufferSize"=dword:00032000

If there's anywhere else "MaxBufferSize" is mentioned,
increase it there too.

Kerio 2.15 was made when 16-64 MB of RAM was the norm, so it
had a tiny buffer in memory (not sure, but I think it was 2MB).
Increasing it to 32MB solves the problem.
I have not had a crash since I increased the buffer.

[David B.]

It's simply not a word in popular usage - in my experience anyway.

I don't mind at all that you are a black woman - as long as you are
truthful.

[David B.]

On 07/05/2017 21:39, Tomos Davies wrote:

> 99% of intelligence is (INHO) in the ability to pay attention to detail.

I tend to agree - In My Humble Opinion? (IMHO)

Perhaps I refer to group(s) which are NOT Windows related?

--
"The important thing is not to stop questioning."
- Albert Einstein

[Shadow]

On Wed, 10 May 2017 22:31:24 +0100, "David B."
<Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:

>On 07/05/2017 21:39, Tomos Davies wrote:
>
>> 99% of intelligence is (INHO) in the ability to pay attention to detail.

Yeah, the other 1% is BD. I see you know him.

>
>Perhaps I refer to group(s) which are NOT Windows related?

And yet you posted in:


"alt.windows7.general,alt.comp.os.windows-10,microsoft.public.windowsxp.general"

Maybe you should redact the newsgroup list you posted to ?
Or is this yet another deliberate STALKING attempt ?
EPIC FAIL !!!!

[Char Jackson]

On Wed, 10 May 2017 22:07:28 +0100, "David B."

<Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:

>On 08/05/2017 16:20, Char Jackson wrote:
>> On Sun, 7 May 2017 17:38:51 +0100, "David B."
>> <Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 07/05/2017 17:27, Char Jackson wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 5 May 2017 23:37:23 +0100, "David B."
>>>> <Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 05/05/2017 22:58, John & Jane Doe wrote:
>>>>>> David B. wrote in <news:AQ5PA.642291$i7.9...@fx30.fr7>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> REDACT - who taught you that word?!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Origin and Etymology of redact
>>>>>> Middle English, from Latin redactus, past participle of redigere
>>>>>>
>>>>>> First Known Use: 15th century

>>>>>> 1350-1400; Middle English < Latin redāctus (past participle of redigere to
>>>>>> lead back), equivalent to red- red- + āctus, past participle of agere to

>>>>>> lead;
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I repeat: *Who taught YOU that word*?!!!
>>>>
>>>> Hmm, obviously that word gives you a hinky. Can you explain why that is?
>>>
>>> Yes, of course ...... once you have provide the link to your REAL
>>> identity at LinkedIn.
>>>
>>> Will you do that, Char?
>>
>> I thought you had already picked one at random. Now, back to my
>> question. Why does redaction give you a hinky?
>
>It's simply not a word in popular usage - in my experience anyway.
>
>I don't mind at all that you are a black woman - as long as you are
>truthful.

You would hold me to a higher standard than you hold yourself? You've
previously claimed to be "open and honest", which I'm sure you know
isn't exactly truthful.

[David B.]

On 11/05/2017 06:41, Char Jackson wrote:
> On Wed, 10 May 2017 22:07:28 +0100, "David B."
> <Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 08/05/2017 16:20, Char Jackson wrote:
>>> On Sun, 7 May 2017 17:38:51 +0100, "David B."
>>> <Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 07/05/2017 17:27, Char Jackson wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 5 May 2017 23:37:23 +0100, "David B."
>>>>> <Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 05/05/2017 22:58, John & Jane Doe wrote:
>>>>>>> David B. wrote in <news:AQ5PA.642291$i7.9...@fx30.fr7>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> REDACT - who taught you that word?!!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Origin and Etymology of redact
>>>>>>> Middle English, from Latin redactus, past participle of redigere
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> First Known Use: 15th century

>>>>>>> 1350-1400; Middle English < Latin redàctus (past participle of redigere to
>>>>>>> lead back), equivalent to red- red- + àctus, past participle of agere to

>>>>>>> lead;
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I repeat: *Who taught YOU that word*?!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Hmm, obviously that word gives you a hinky. Can you explain why that is?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, of course ...... once you have provide the link to your REAL
>>>> identity at LinkedIn.
>>>>
>>>> Will you do that, Char?
>>>
>>> I thought you had already picked one at random. Now, back to my
>>> question. Why does redaction give you a hinky?
>>
>> It's simply not a word in popular usage - in my experience anyway.
>>
>> I don't mind at all that you are a black woman - as long as you are
>> truthful.
>
> You would hold me to a higher standard than you hold yourself?

Quite possibly - if you are the lady who looked at my LinkedIn profile. :-)

> You've previously claimed to be "open and honest", which I'm sure you know
> isn't exactly truthful.

It is no easy task to discover the truth. Do you think I have lied to
you, Char? Is there anything you would like me to clarify?

--
The only people who make a difference are the people who believe they can.

[Char Jackson]

On Thu, 11 May 2017 08:22:15 +0100, "David B."

Since you asked, how do you reconcile the 'open and honest' claim with
the stalking? What's open and honest about what you're doing?

We've been down this road before, though, haven't we? You'll claim that
you prefer the term 'researcher' rather than 'stalker', but calling it
something different doesn't make it different. You'll also claim that
you're trying to uncover the "truth" or expose "bad guys", but it's just
simple stalking.

[David B.]

On 11/05/2017 12:00, Char Jackson wrote:
> On Thu, 11 May 2017 08:22:15 +0100, "David B."
> <Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:

[....]

>> It is no easy task to discover the truth. Do you think I have lied to
>> you, Char? Is there anything you would like me to clarify?
>
> Since you asked, how do you reconcile the 'open and honest' claim with
> the stalking? What's open and honest about what you're doing?
>
> We've been down this road before, though, haven't we? You'll claim that
> you prefer the term 'researcher' rather than 'stalker', but calling it
> something different doesn't make it different. You'll also claim that
> you're trying to uncover the "truth" or expose "bad guys", but it's just
> simple stalking.

No, it's not. It has taken years of painstaking effort to get to this point.

The real life bad guy who I have exposed, Dustin Cook, has opened up a
can of worms now. If you have the time, please read the thread he
started called "Wanna Torrent" on the alt.computer.workshop group.

Message-ID: <XnsA77046...@N3MLgZ82.p28guqPTAElyc>

I have no fight with you, Char Jackson.

--
"The important thing is not to stop questioning."
- Albert Einstein

[burfordTjustice]

On Thu, 11 May 2017 12:35:10 +0100
"David B." <Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:

> No, it's not. It has taken years of painstaking effort to get to this
> point.

and yet not ONE "bad guy" have you caused to be identified,
arrested, charged and convicted.
NOT ONE!!

[Shadow]

On Thu, 11 May 2017 12:35:10 +0100, "David B."
<Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:

>> We've been down this road before, though, haven't we? You'll claim that
>> you prefer the term 'researcher' rather than 'stalker', but calling it
>> something different doesn't make it different. You'll also claim that
>> you're trying to uncover the "truth" or expose "bad guys", but it's just
>> simple stalking.
>
>No, it's not. It has taken years of painstaking effort to get to this point.

//User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:52.0)
Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.1.0//

What point ? You have NEVER helped ANYONE on Usenet, EVER. NOT
a SINGLE helpful post, in over 10 years of solid STALKING.
You have never "exposed" ANY "bad guys" EVER.
All you do is SPAM for the REAL "bad guys". Like M$, Google,
Apple, FaceKook, LinkedIn, Twitter etc, and of course, the RIAA and
the TLAs.
STOP DRINKING and MAYBE you will look in the mirror and see
yourself for what you are, a fool. It's probably too late for that,
though. Chronic alcohol abuse causes irreparable brain damage.

> <CUT_LINKS_TO_OFF_TOPIC_TORRENTS>

[Shadow]

On Thu, 11 May 2017 12:35:10 +0100, "David B."
<Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:

>> We've been down this road before, though, haven't we? You'll claim that
>> you prefer the term 'researcher' rather than 'stalker', but calling it
>> something different doesn't make it different. You'll also claim that
>> you're trying to uncover the "truth" or expose "bad guys", but it's just
>> simple stalking.
>
>No, it's not. It has taken years of painstaking effort to get to this point.

Here you go, REAL "bad guys" to "research":

https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.apple.com
https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.avangate.com
https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.paypal.com
https://www.trustpilot.com/review/emea.microsoftstore.com

Please post your results in the appropriate newsgroups.
TIA

[Diesel]

"David B." <Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid>
news:O%XQA.771942$Tb4.1...@fx03.fr7 Thu, 11 May 2017 11:35:10 GMT

in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
> The real life bad guy who I have exposed, Dustin Cook, has opened
> up a can of worms now. If you have the time, please read the
> thread he started called "Wanna Torrent" on the
> alt.computer.workshop group.

You give yourself far too much credit, David. You've been stalking me
for years, but, that doesn't make me the bad guy. it makes YOU the bad
guy.

> Message-ID: <XnsA77046...@N3MLgZ82.p28guqPTAElyc>

Hah. Did cluley ever get back to you? :) What's he think of VPN?


--
I would like to apologize for not having offended you yet.
Please be patient. I will get to you shortly.

[David B.]

On 12/05/2017 00:43, Diesel wrote:
> "David B." <Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid>
> news:O%XQA.771942$Tb4.1...@fx03.fr7 Thu, 11 May 2017 11:35:10 GMT
> in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
>> The real life bad guy who I have exposed, Dustin Cook, has opened
>> up a can of worms now. If you have the time, please read the
>> thread he started called "Wanna Torrent" on the
>> alt.computer.workshop group.
>
> You give yourself far too much credit, David. You've been stalking me
> for years, but, that doesn't make me the bad guy. it makes YOU the bad
> guy.

No, Dustin, it doesn't.

I'm waiting for you to answer this question, posed by another poster who
recognizes your criminal behaviour:-

"Why do you take money out of the pockets of the artist by delivering
illegal music to "couriers"?"

Message-ID: <l6ydnVn7oJrLnojE...@giganews.com>

Btw, what *ARE* "couriers"?

>> Message-ID: <XnsA77046...@N3MLgZ82.p28guqPTAElyc>
>
> Hah. Did cluley ever get back to you? :) What's he think of VPN?

No. Mr Cluely removed your post from the comments section.

I have no Clue what he thinks of VPN. Ask him yourself.

[Diesel]

"David B." <Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid>
news:H6dRA.555009$gG5.3...@fx08.fr7 Fri, 12 May 2017 07:03:01 GMT

in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:

> On 12/05/2017 00:43, Diesel wrote:
>> "David B." <Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid>
>> news:O%XQA.771942$Tb4.1...@fx03.fr7 Thu, 11 May 2017 11:35:10
>> GMT in alt.computer.workshop, wrote:
>>> The real life bad guy who I have exposed, Dustin Cook, has
>>> opened up a can of worms now. If you have the time, please read
>>> the thread he started called "Wanna Torrent" on the
>>> alt.computer.workshop group.
>>
>> You give yourself far too much credit, David. You've been
>> stalking me for years, but, that doesn't make me the bad guy. it
>> makes YOU the bad guy.
>
> No, Dustin, it doesn't.

I'd have to disagree with you.

> I'm waiting for you to answer this question, posed by another
> poster who recognizes your criminal behaviour:-

I've answered it. When you see this reply, the reply answering his
will be available too. It's a very long read, but, I'd hope you read
every line, as it's important. You're going to learn how the RIAA
actually works to fuck the artist over.

> Btw, what *ARE* "couriers"?

I already told you what they are. However, to save time, I also
answered your query posed to the auk troll, and, again, told you what
they are in the context i'm using the word. it's why I laugh so much
when you make threats towards myself and the other members. We don't
distribute ANYTHING (no mp3s, no torrents, nothing) to end users. We
don't actually control the account I keep advising people to visit
for new releases, either. I just post that url (and the releases
associated with it), mostly just to piss you off at this point. I
suspect those who want our music via torrent already have it
bookmarked by now and check it often for 'new' releases.

Why not? We release quality mp3s, after all. Just, not via torrent,
and, not to end users.

>>> Message-ID: <XnsA77046...@N3MLgZ82.p28guqPTAElyc>
>>
>> Hah. Did cluley ever get back to you? :) What's he think of VPN?
>
> No. Mr Cluely removed your post from the comments section.

Removed my post? I think you're confused. I've made no posts on his
forum, at any time. I am a subscriber to his newsletter though. I've
got (according to Pegasus) 524 emails from it, 514 unread. If it
helps.

> I have no Clue what he thinks of VPN. Ask him yourself.

I asked you, because, you gave me the impression he was your friend.
He's far more likely to chat with a 'friend' than he would with me.
We have a history, Cluley and myself, and, neither of us considers
the other a 'friend' Unless I'm mistaken, he shouldn't have any love
for me, anymore so than I have for him.

[Shadow]

On Fri, 12 May 2017 08:03:01 +0100, "David B."
<Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:

>"Why do you take money out of the pockets of the artist "

The person you are STALKING is NOT an employee of the RIAA.

You are probably too drunk ATM to figure that out for
yourself.
HTH

PS Off Topic STALKING post, *AGAIN*. If you want to STALK and
TROLL do it in your Mac groups.

>User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:52.0)