+ Proving the existence of GOD scientifically on 10/04/18 ...

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

> HeartDoc Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
> > Behold in wide-eyed wonder and amazement:
> >
> > http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/c99eb041e49dd5e1
> >
> > Non-christian: "Show me LORD Almighty GOD."
> >
> > Christian: "Jesus is LORD."
> >
> > Non-christian: "So what?"
> >
> > Christian: "Would not have been able to say that without GOD's help."
> >
> > Non-christian: "Anyone can say that."
> >
> > Christian: "Ok, go ahead and do it for me."
> >
> > Non-christian: "I can't say anything that is untrue."

Source:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.med.cardiology/XgfO7Da8R-o/4duvYtUP66YJ

Christian: "How about 'Santa Claus lives at the North Pole'?"

Non-christian: "Santa Claus lives at the North Pole."

Christian: "See, you can say things that we both know to be untrue
including your earlier statement that you 'can't say anything that you
believe is untrue.' So go ahead and prove you can say 'Jesus is LORD'
by doing it or else end up proving that 'no one can say "Jesus is
LORD" except by the Holy Spirit' (1 Corinthians 12:3)"

Non-christian: "I can't"

Christian: "Actually, you just proved that my saying 'Jesus is LORD'
is my showing you LORD Almighty GOD"

Bottom line: Apologetics is no longer needed for we, who are GOD's
http://WDJW.net/Redeemed , always have the LORD our GOD as evidence of
Himself thereby always proving that atheists like Richard Dawkins are
delusional in their falsely thinking that our belief in GOD is a
delusion.

Laus Deo :-)

http://WDJW.net/LausDeo

"For to us a Child is born, to us a Son is given, and the government
will be on His shoulders (Matthew 12:25). And He will be called
Wonderful Counselor (Luke 12:25), Mighty GOD (Mark 12:25), Everlasting
Father (John 12:25), Prince of Peace ( http://WDJW.net/PrinceOfPeace
)." (Isaiah 9:6) Yes, 12:25 really is the birthday of our risen LORD
Jesus 'Christ' of Nazareth. Laus Deo :-)

LORD Jesus Christ says "you are My friends if you do what I
command"(John 15:14) and "if you love Me, you will obey what I
command."(John 14:15)

The LORD commands His disciples, who are mindful of WDJW and are doing
what He wants, to "love each other as I have loved you."(John 15:12)

http://WDJW.net

The LORD teaches "greater love has no one than this, that he lay down
his life for his friends"(John 15:13) thereby meeting unwanted needs.
Friends don't want friends to die.

This is how we, who are Jesus' disciples (either Jew or gentile),
should love one another. We should mindfully choose to openly care
with our heart so that we would be willing to die for each other
because our LORD has been willing to die for each of us and indeed has
died for each of us so that we may have eternal life (John 3:16).

May dear neighbors, friends, and brethren have a blessedly wonderful
life in remembrance of the birth of our LORD Jesus Christ as our
Messiah, the Son of Man:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/ba987143725c5298?

Don't be like satan, who is not hungry as evident by his eating
dust/dirt (Genesis 3:14) instead of real food:

https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9c87c24ea7a7ee20?

Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
diabetics and other heart disease patients:

http://WDJW.net/HeartDocAndrewToutsHunger (Luke 6:21a) with all glory
to GOD, Who causes us to hunger (Deuteronomy 8:3) when He blesses us
right now (Luke 6:21a) thereby removing the http://WDJW.net/VAT from
around the heart

... because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,

HeartDoc Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Cardiologist with an http://bit.ly/EternalMedicalLicense
2016 & upwards non-partisan candidate for U.S. President:
http://bit.ly/WonderfullyHungryPresident
and author of the 2PD-OMER Approach:
http://WDJW.net/HeartDocAndrewCare
which is the only **healthy** cure for the U.S. healthcare crisis

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/05/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/05/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 2nd time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/05/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 3rd time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/05/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 4th time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/06/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/06/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 2nd time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/06/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 3rd time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/06/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 4th time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/07/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/08/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/08/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 2nd time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/08/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 3rd time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/09/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/09/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 2nd time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/10/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/10/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 2nd time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/10/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 3rd time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/10/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 4th time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/11/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/11/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 2nd time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/11/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 3rd time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/11/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 4th time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/12/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/12/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 2nd time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/12/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 3rd time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/12/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 4th time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/12/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 5th time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/12/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 6th time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/12/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 7th time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/12/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD an 8th time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/12/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 9th time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[%]

On 2018-10-12 3:08 PM, Attila wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 18:31:31 -0500, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
> <ach...@EmoryCardiology.com> in alt.atheism with message-id

> <pplurc$st3$6...@news.mixmin.net> wrote:
>
>> + 10/10/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 3rd time ...
>>
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ
>

> No proof there.
>
prove you don't lick your nuts , you can't , well then , you do

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

% wrote:
> someone eternally condemned & ever more cursed by GOD wrote:
>> another eternally condemned & ever more cursed by GOD wrote:
>>> HeartDocAndrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>>>>
>>>> +++ 09/09/18 Praying for %'s perishing soul ...
>>>>
>>>>
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.med.cardiology/6Gas4x8n0GM/4haoUSVOAQAJ
>>>
>>>
>>> WTF, man!?!? WTF's my perishing soul, chopped liver??
>>> How's come you never pray for it?? How many times it been
>>> now you prayed for Persent's perishing soul and never
>>> mine? WTF's his perishing soul got that mine ain't?? Huh??
>> ______________________________________________
>>
>> He's prayed for mine as well. Of course, since I don't
>> give one hot shit about that imaginary entity he can pray
>> all he wants as long as it keeps him out of the medical
>> profession. If you want him to pray for yours you might
>> follow the example of others who've drawn his mealy mouthed
>> wrath.

Actually, there is no reason to either be angry about someone
blaspheming against the Holy Spirit nor pray for someone who has
consequently chosen to tragically become eternally condemned & ever more
cursed (Jeremiah 17:5) by GOD.

As for being out of the medical profession, I am called to save it.

Only someone with an http://bit.ly/EternalMedicalLicense can
(Philippians 4:13) save the medical profession.

Laus DEO :-)

> all i do is send him a blank reply and ,
> i'm as good as got reserved seating in heaven

Only GOD is good (Matthew 19:17).

Moreover, yours has hardly been blank replies:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.med.cardiology/6Gas4x8n0GM/4haoUSVOAQAJ

+++

% wrote:
> HeartDoc Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>> % wrote:
>>> HeartDoc Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>>>> % wrote:
>>>>> HeartDoc Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>>>>>> Persent wrote:
>>>>>>> HeartDoc Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>>>>>>>> Persent wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> jesus is not god he's the son of god
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Son (heart) of GOD is GOD just as the Father (mind) of GOD
is GOD
>>>>>>>> just as the Holy Spirit (soul) of GOD is GOD.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is what it means for humans to each be made in GOD's
image, each
>>>>>>>> having a heart, soul, and mind with which to love GOD, Who
also has a
>>>>>>>> heart (Son), soul (Holy Spirit), and mind (Father).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One GOD in three different realms:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (1) Physical (Son)
>>>>>>>> (2) Spiritual (Holy Spirit)
>>>>>>>> (3) Mental (Father)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Source:
>>>>>>>>
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.med.cardiology/fivxNKK7-1s/Wh0wF4kGBQAJ
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Persent answered:
>>>>>>>>> Bob Officer asked in part:
>>>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Suggested background reading:
>>>>>>>>
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.med.cardiology/B-dJ_iWGRk8/y7Wt5hwlAQAJ
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Where was this study published and peer reviewed?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/39/5/808.long
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> in my backyard
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am http://bit.ly/wonderfully_hungry and hope you, Persent,
also have
>>>>>>>> a healthy appetite too :-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So how are you ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> i'm dying from starvation
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hope that despite your writing that you're "dying from starvation"
>>>>>> that you, %, actually have a healthy appetite.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So you do have the ability to eat a piece of healthy fruit at the
>>>>>> moment, don't you (yes/no) ?
>>>>>
>>>>> if they undue my bed straps **...** maybe
>>
>> **emphasis** added

Source:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.support.diabetes/5PIVSncqKVE/EO9pmc0CEwAJ

>>>> I share with you, %. that your being able to post here on ASD does
>>>> indicate that you are **not** strapped down in a bed and that you do
>>>> have the more fundamental ability to eat. So you do, in fact, have the
>>>> ability to eat at the moment, don't you (yes/no) ?
>>>
>>> i'm using a voice to text program , i talk , it types
>>
>> I share with you, %, that your use of "..." (see **emphasis** above)
>> for a pause indicates that you are using a keyboard instead of "a
>> voice to text program" to post here on ASD which again indicates that
>> you do have the more fundamental ability to eat. So again, you do, in
>> fact, have the ability to eat at the moment, don't you (yes/no) ?
>
> i just told you my situation ,
> i told you how i manage to get around it ,
> if you don't like that then you can ch? sh?

While wonderfully hungry ( http://bit.ly/Philippians4_12 ) in the Holy
Spirit, Who causes (Deuteronomy 8:3) us to hunger, I pray (2 Chronicles
7:14) that GOD softens your stony (Ezekiel 11:19-20 & 36:26) heart,
Persent, so that you'd come to trust the truth, Who is Jesus Christ of
Nazareth (John 14:6) --> http://T3WiJ.com Amen.

Laus DEO

Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
diabetics and other heart disease patients:

http://WDJW.net/HeartDocAndrewToutsHunger (Luke 6:21a) with all glory to
GOD, Who causes us to hunger (Deuteronomy 8:3) when He blesses us right
now (Luke 6:21a) thereby removing the http://WDJW.net/VAT from around
the heart

... because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,

HeartDoc Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Cardiologist with an http://bit.ly/EternalMedicalLicense
2016 & upwards non-partisan candidate for U.S. President:
http://bit.ly/WonderfullyHungryPresident
and author of the 2PD-OMER Approach:
http://WDJW.net/HeartDocAndrewCare
which is the only **healthy** cure for the U.S. healthcare crisis

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/12/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 10th time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/12/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD an 11th time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/13/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/13/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 2nd time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/13/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 3rd time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/14/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/14/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 2nd time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/14/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 3rd time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/14/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 4th time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/15/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/15/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 2nd time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/16/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/16/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 2nd time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Rev. Ken Jones]

On 10/12/2018 5:08 PM, Attila wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 18:31:31 -0500, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
> <ach...@EmoryCardiology.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
> <pplurc$st3$6...@news.mixmin.net> wrote:
>

>> + 10/10/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 3rd time ...
>>
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ
>
>

> No proof there.

Science is not in the proof business, science
proves nothing, so why demand proof from religion?

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/16/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 3rd time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/16/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 4th time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Rev. Ken Jones]

On 10/16/2018 2:06 PM, Attila wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 11:11:48 -0400, "Rev. Ken Jones" <"Rev. Ken
> Jones"@gmail.com> in alt.atheism with message-id

> As long as it is clear that a belief is being discussed and not
> something that is factual, fine. But evidence is required for
> anything asserted as being factual or real.
>
> The subject here appears to be proving the existence of a god, which
> is clearly outside of a simple belief.
>
YOu've heard the old saying. "Proof is only in death and taxes".
>

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

Rev. Ken Jones wrote:

>>>> HeartDoc Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> + 10/10/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 3rd time ...
>>>>>
>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ
>

> YOu've heard the old saying. "Proof is only in death and taxes".

It is written that we are to "prove all things." (1 Thessalonians
5:21)

Therefore, for those of us, who are believers, to not prove the
existence of GOD is to sin.

It is further written that the LORD commands us to stop sinning (John
5:14).

In the interim, I am simply wonderfully hungry (
http://bit.ly/Philippians4_12 ) and hope you, Rev. Ken, also have a
healthy appetite too.

So how are you ?

...because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,

[John]

>>>>> HeartDoc Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:

>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

There is at least one youtube video where a non-believer says "Jesus is
Lorrd".

That is complete refutation.

>>
>> YOu've heard the old saying. "Proof is only in death and taxes".
>
>It is written that we are to "prove all things." (1 Thessalonians
>5:21)
>
>Therefore, for those of us, who are believers, to not prove the
>existence of GOD is to sin.
>
>It is further written that the LORD commands us to stop sinning (John
>5:14).
>

In 1 John:
1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth
is not in us.

>
>So how are you ?

Fine thank you.>

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

Attila wrote:

>>>>> HeartDoc Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> + 10/10/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 3rd time ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

> I used the word "proof" because the origional post contained it.
>
> I have yet to see any valid evidence supporting the existence of any
> god.

Actually, the link is both valid (i.e. working) and evidence (i.e.
contains irrefutable scientific proof of the existence of GOD).

Any proof by a Ph.D. scientist using the scientific principles of
observation, reasoning, and logic is by definition scientific.

In the interim, I am wonderfully hungry (
http://bit.ly/Philippians4_12 ) and hope you, Attila, also have a
healthy appetite too.

So how are you ?

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

eternally condemned & ever more cursed "John" nymshifter wrote:
>>>>>> HeartDoc Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ
>
> There is at least one youtube video where a non-believer says "Jesus is
> Lorrd".

I have never seen one.

For it is written that ...

"... no one can say 'Jesus is LORD' except by the Holy Spirit" (1
Corinthians 12:13).

>That is complete refutation.

Such refutation doesn't exist because there is no reason for the Holy
Spirit to help non-believers say "Jesus is LORD" with their mouth
(Romans 10:9) unto salvation (Romans 10:10) until GOD saves them.

>>> YOu've heard the old saying. "Proof is only in death and taxes".
>>
>> It is written that we are to "prove all things." (1 Thessalonians
>> 5:21)
>>
>> Therefore, for those of us, who are believers, to not prove the
>> existence of GOD is to sin.
>>
>> It is further written that the LORD commands us to stop sinning (John
>> 5:14).
>
> In 1 John:
> 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth
> is not in us.

For someone to say they "have no sin" is to say that they've never
sinned.

For someone to say, they "repent" means they've stopped sinning.

The command to "stop sinning" (John 5:14) is the command to repent.

Those who cannot prove that GOD exists are those who cannot repent.

+++

Within the thread titled "><> Being wonderfully hungry on 01/16/18
..."

Source:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/sci.med.cardiology/aYg5AnsrNn0

... someone eternally condemned and tormented asked:

> Does this mean the 13 starving children rescued must be nearly prfect and
> healthy?

Source:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.med.cardiology/aYg5AnsrNn0/vnVXV9wHAgAJ

No.

Children (and adults) who say they're "starving" (Genesis 25:32)
instead of saying they're "wonderfully hungry" (
http://bit.ly/Philippians4_12 ) are neither perfect (Matthew 5:48) nor
healthy (John 5:14).

Moreover, whoever calls themselves "Wonderful" (Isaiah 9:6), as you've
done here, also suffers from the delusion that they're GOD on top of
the pre-existing "hunger is starvation" (2 Kings 6:29) delusion (2
Thessalonians 2:11) of the eternally condemned (Mark 3:29).

While http://bit.ly/wonderfully_hungry in the Holy Spirit, Who causes
(Deuteronomy 8:3) us to hunger, I again pray (2 Chronicles 7:14) that
GOD continues to curse (Jeremiah 17:5) you, who are eternally
condemned, more than ever by expanding His curse to also include your
**extended** household more than ever in the name of Jesus Christ of
Nazareth. Amen.

Laus DEO !


Within the thread titled **Exposing the "hunger is starvation"
(Genesis 25:32) delusion (2 Thessalonians 2:11) of the eternally
condemned on 01/01/18 ...

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/sci.med.cardiology/dDW90vO_2LE

... someone eternally condemned and tormented asked on 01/15/18:

> Dr. chung, would you define "Schizoaffective Disorder" for us and provide
> some example symptoms?

Source:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.med.cardiology/dDW90vO_2LE/GdUA8Ed9AAAJ

"Schizoaffective disorder is a mental disorder in which a person
experiences a combination of schizophrenia symptoms, such as
hallucinations or delusions, and mood disorder symptoms, such as
depression or mania."

Source:
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/schizoaffective-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20354504

The key "example symptom" relevant here in your case would be your
"having false, fixed beliefs, despite evidence to the contrary"
specifically being the "hunger is starvation" (Genesis 25:32)
false&fixed belief (delusion prophesied at 2 Thessalonians 2:11) being
vanquished for other readers at:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.med.cardiology/dDW90vO_2LE/XXLJsNBdAAAJ

The reason for the disorder is GOD cursing (Jeremiah 17:5) you to have
the mental-illness-causing http://HeartMDPD.com/VAT which is a
consequence of overeating (eating more than 32 oz/day of food
according to what's written at Revelation 6:6) which is the deadly
(Proverb 23:2) Adam&Eve sin (Hebrews 12:1) of gluttony.

While http://bit.ly/wonderfully_hungry in the Holy Spirit, Who causes
(Deuteronomy 8:3) us to hunger, I again pray (2 Chronicles 7:14) that
GOD continues to curse (Jeremiah 17:5) you, who are eternally
condemned, more than ever by expanding His curse to also include your
**extended** household more than ever in the name of Jesus Christ of
Nazareth. Amen.

Laus DEO !

Again, this is done in hopes of convincing all reading this to stop
being http://bit.ly/terribly_hungry (2 Kings 6:29) where all are in
danger of becoming eternally condemned (Mark 3:29) just as had
happened to Ananias and Sapphira and more contemporaneously to Bob
Pastorio.

Again, the LORD did strike down http://bit.ly/Bob_Pastorio on Fool's
day just 9+ years ago:

http://bobs-amanuensis.livejournal.com/8728.html

Again, this is done ...

http://WDJW.net/HeartDocAndrewToutsHunger (Luke 6:21a) with all glory
to GOD, Who causes us to hunger (Deuteronomy 8:3) when He blesses us

right now (Luke 6:21a) thereby removing the http://JiL4ever.net/VAT
from around the heart

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/16/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 5th time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[John]

One poster offers a theory:

>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ
>>
>> There is at least one youtube video where a non-believer says "Jesus is
>> Lorrd".
>
>I have never seen one.
>

>>"... no one can say 'Jesus is LORD' except by the Holy Spirit" (1
>Corinthians 12:13).
>
>>That is complete refutation.
>
>Such refutation doesn't exist because there is no reason for the Holy
>Spirit to help non-believers say "Jesus is LORD" with their mouth

Tautology.

Thus spake a non-bliever, directly addressing the poster and his theory in
its title:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ft3nBlpcv-I

>
>>> It is further written that the LORD commands us to stop sinning (John
>>> 5:14).
>>
>> In 1 John:
>> 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth
>> is not in us.
>
>For someone to say they "have no sin" is to say that they've never
>sinned.
>
>For someone to say, they "repent" means they've stopped sinning.

Good try, no cigar, the greek does not support that theory.

The 1 John below has a greek verb tense that speaks of a continuing state;
not a past or completed state .

It was written to christian believers; the greek grammer also shows John is
including himself in it:

1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is
not in us.

1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our
sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word
is not in us.

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

Someone eternally condemned & ever more cursed by GOD wrote:
>>> HeartDoc Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>

>>>> It is written in the Bible that ...

>>>> "... no one can say 'Jesus is LORD' except by the Holy Spirit" (1
>>> Corinthians 12:13).
>>
>>> That is complete refutation.
>>
>> Such refutation doesn't exist because there is no reason for the Holy
>> Spirit to help non-believers say "Jesus is LORD" with their mouth
>
> Tautology.

An explanation of an observation is not a repeat (tautology) of the
observation.

> Thus spake a non-bliever, directly addressing the poster and his theory in
> its title:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ft3nBlpcv-I

David Silverman (aka Sanity's Little Helper & ArchRationalist), in the
making of his YouTube video, discovered that he actually believes in
his heart (Romans 10:9) that GOD raised Jesus up from the dead as
evident by the Holy Spirit helping him say "Jesus is LORD" (1
Corinthians 12:3) unto salvation (Romans 10:10):

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.med.cardiology/RmjsKr1z3Ws/xqpPAZPb9kYJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/16/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 6th time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/16/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 7th time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/16/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD an 8th time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/17/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/17/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 2nd time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/17/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 3rd time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/17/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 4th time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/17/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 5th time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/17/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 6th time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[servant]

5 second youtube test of this claim.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ft3nBlpcv-I

Complete refutation.

[Johnny]

[Michael Christ]

You lied.

The Lord Jesus is not the Lord in a 'Servant of sin' - not ever.






Michael Christ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

Someone eternally condemned & ever more cursed by GOD wrote:
>>> HeartDoc Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
>>>> It is written in the Bible that ...
>>>> "... no one can say 'Jesus is LORD' except by the Holy Spirit" (1
>>> Corinthians 12:13).
>>
>>> That is complete refutation.
>>
>> Such refutation doesn't exist because there is no reason for the Holy
>> Spirit to help non-believers say "Jesus is LORD" with their mouth
>
> Tautology.

An explanation of an observation is not a repeat (tautology) of the
observation.

> Thus spake a non-bliever, directly addressing the poster and his theory in
> its title:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ft3nBlpcv-I

David Silverman (aka Sanity's Little Helper & ArchRationalist), in the

making of his YouTube video in 2009, discovered that he actually

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/17/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 7th time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/17/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD an 8th time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/18/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[servant]

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

Someone eternally condemned & ever more cursed by GOD wrote:
>>> HeartDoc Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
>>>> It is written in the Bible that ...
>>>> "... no one can say 'Jesus is LORD' except by the Holy Spirit" (1
>>> Corinthians 12:13).
>>
>>> That is complete refutation.
>>
>> Such refutation doesn't exist because there is no reason for the Holy

>> Spirit to help non-believers say "Jesus is LORD" with their mouth (Romans 10:9)

>> unto salvation (Romans 10:10)
>

> Tautology.

Source:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/0uw57vAkBgAJ

An explanation of an observation is not a repeat (tautology) of the
observation.

Your misuse of the word tautology here is consistent with your being
ever more cursed by GOD thereby allowing us to continue prove His
existence in this thread :-)

Laus DEO !

> Thus spake a non-bliever, directly addressing the poster and his theory in
> its title:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ft3nBlpcv-I

David Silverman (aka Sanity's Little Helper & ArchRationalist), in the
making of his YouTube video in 2009, discovered that he actually
believes in his heart (Romans 10:9) that GOD raised Jesus up from the
dead as evident by the Holy Spirit helping him say "Jesus is LORD" (1
Corinthians 12:3) unto salvation (Romans 10:10):

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.med.cardiology/RmjsKr1z3Ws/xqpPAZPb9kYJ

Moreover, Mr. Silverman (aka ArchRationalist) is **not** the
non-Christian described in the irrefutable proof given in the OP at
the top of this thread as evident by his not identifying himself as
the person who claimed he cannot lie (i.e. say something he believes
is not true).

Link to OP at top of thread:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ
Bottom line:

**Irrefutable** proof of the existence of GOD has been given not only
in the OP at the top of the thread but in your being ever more cursed
(Jeremiah 17:5) by GOD for all to witness here.

Laus DEO !

[Rev. Ken Jones]

On 10/16/2018 7:40 PM, Attila wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 18:07:17 -0400, "Rev. Ken Jones" <"Rev. Ken
> Jones"@gmail.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
> <nitxD.215932$8r2....@fx34.iad> wrote:
>
>> On 10/16/2018 2:06 PM, Attila wrote:
>>> On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 11:11:48 -0400, "Rev. Ken Jones" <"Rev. Ken
>>> Jones"@gmail.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>> <ScnxD.219630$ql2.1...@fx06.iad> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 10/12/2018 5:08 PM, Attila wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 10 Oct 2018 18:31:31 -0500, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
>>>>> <ach...@EmoryCardiology.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>>>> <pplurc$st3$6...@news.mixmin.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> + 10/10/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 3rd time ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ
>
>>>> No proof there.
>>>>
>>>> Science is not in the proof business, science
>>>> proves nothing, so why demand proof from religion?
>>>
>>> As long as it is clear that a belief is being discussed and not
>>> something that is factual, fine. But evidence is required for
>>> anything asserted as being factual or real.
>>>
>>> The subject here appears to be proving the existence of a god, which
>>> is clearly outside of a simple belief.

>>>
>> YOu've heard the old saying. "Proof is only in death and taxes".
>

> I used the word "proof" because the origional post contained it.
>
> I have yet to see any valid evidence supporting the existence of any
> god.
>

It depends entirely upon a person's frame of mind. There are people
who have no preconceived notions as to the existence of God, so
this person is generally open minded and will hear all arguments,
he perhaps is agnostic.
The theist already is convinced, and it requires undeniable facts
to challenge his faith, he has a "show me" mindset and will "fall
away". There is the atheist who generally will stand by his views
regardless of the strength of an argument favoring Gods existence,
even insisting there is no evidence.
>
Before Darwin, as most scientist observed phenomena and described
it and its purpose or function, they saw this as evidence of
design and design as the manifestation of God, who was the designer.
In reality many scientific disciplines were founded by Religious
persons and numerous disciplines by Catholic Priest and clergy.
"Thinking God's thoughts after him". - Johannes Kepler
Darwin however, observing perhaps much of the same phenomena and
advanced theory of evolution where what was observed could be
presented as evidence of his theory. This has been described as
"Darwin's greatest discovery Design without a Designer".
>
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/6336726_Darwin's_greatest_discovery_Design_without_designer
>
As a consequence of accepting Darwin's theory which became a
paradigm for most scientists and many non scientists, whatever
they observed; tested; is interpreted within the paradigm "set up"
by Darwin, consequently this is was interpreted as evidence for evolution.

What this means is that evidence is, in reality, subjective and
can be interpreted, within the evolution model or the design
model.

Recognizing this reality, atheist devised the proposition that
there _is_ NO design in nature.

Examples of this contrivance:

“Biology is the study of complicated things that give the appearance
of having been designed for a purpose.” - Richard Dawkins

Biologists must constantly keep in mind that what they see was not
designed, but rather evolved. - Francis Crick ( Nobel Prize Laureate in
Physiology and Medicine), "What Mad Pursuit," 1990, p.138.

The illusion of design is so successful that to this day most
Americans (including, significantly, many influential and rich
Americans) stubbornly refuse to believe it is an illusion. To such
people, if a heart (or an eye or a bacterial flagellum) looks designed,
that’s proof enough that it is designed.

www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1535529/posts

After Darwin, we all should feel, deep in our bones, suspicious of the
very idea of design. The illusion of design is a trap that has caught us
before, and Darwin should have immunized us by raising our
consciousness. Would that he had succeeded with all of us. (Richard
Dawkins, The God Delusion, Kindle Edition, pp. 138-139)

Since, evidence of design implies a designer, it becomes clear
that the absence of design prospective is imperative. This
however, is philosophical and for naturalism, absence of design
is axiomatic. And for the scientific convention, if it's
purported to be explainable through non-natural means, then it
is not scientific by definition.

But to emphasize this, it is convention and philosophical, there is no
logical argument, evidence or objective justification or this exclusion.

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

Rev. Ken Jones wrote:

>>>> HeartDoc Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> + 10/10/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 3rd time ...
>>>>>
>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ
>

> YOu've heard the old saying. "Proof is only in death and taxes".

Source:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/K-hD5GocBgAJ

It is written that we are to "prove all things." (1 Thessalonians
5:21)

Therefore, for those of us, who are believers, to not prove the
existence of GOD is to sin.

It is further written that the LORD commands us to stop sinning (John
5:14).

In the interim, I am simply wonderfully hungry (
http://bit.ly/Philippians4_12 ) and hope you, Rev. Ken, also have a

healthy appetite too.

So how are you ?

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/18/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 2nd time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[servant]

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

Someone eternally condemned & ever more cursed by GOD wrote:
>>> HeartDoc Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
>>>> It is written in the Bible that ...
>>>> "... no one can say 'Jesus is LORD' except by the Holy Spirit" (1
>>> Corinthians 12:13).
>>
>>> That is complete refutation.
>>
>> Such refutation doesn't exist because there is no reason for the Holy
>> Spirit to help non-believers say "Jesus is LORD" with their mouth (Romans 10:9)
>> unto salvation (Romans 10:10)
>
> Tautology.

Source:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/0uw57vAkBgAJ

An explanation of an observation is not a repeat (tautology) of the
observation.

Your misuse of the word tautology here is consistent with your being

ever more cursed by GOD thereby allowing us to continue to prove His

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/18/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 3rd time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Rev. Ken Jones]

On 10/18/2018 12:27 PM, Attila wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Oct 2018 12:11:44 -0400, "Rev. Ken Jones" <"Rev. Ken

> Jones"@gmail.com> in alt.atheism with message-id

> No, it doesn't.

>
>> There are people
>> who have no preconceived notions as to the existence of God, so
>> this person is generally open minded and will hear all arguments,
>> he perhaps is agnostic.
>> The theist already is convinced, and it requires undeniable facts
>> to challenge his faith, he has a "show me" mindset and will "fall
>> away". There is the atheist who generally will stand by his views
>> regardless of the strength of an argument favoring Gods existence,
>> even insisting there is no evidence.
>

> An argument is not evidence.
>
There is evidence which can be seen as evidence for God's existence.
It's convention and philosophy which insist on naturalistic
interpretation. It is not a demand of evidence.
>

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

Attila wrote:
> Someone else wrote:

>>>>>>> HeartDoc Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> + 10/10/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 3rd time ...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ
>>>
>>>>>> No proof there.
>

>> It depends entirely upon a person's frame of mind.
>

> No, it doesn't.

Correct.

Instead, it depends on the Holy Spirit for it's written that "no one

can say 'Jesus is LORD' except by the Holy Spirit" (1 Corinthians

12:3), Who is GOD in the Spirit.

The non-Christian described in the proof in the OP at the top of the
thread and behind the above link really does serve as irrefutable
proof of the existence of GOD.

Moreover, your unwittingly acknowledging here that the proof depends
on GOD is your unwittingly acknowledging His existence here.

Q.E.D.

Laus DEO :-)

Now I am even wonderfully hungrier ( http://bit.ly/Philippians4_12 )
than before and again hope you, Attila, also have a healthy appetite
too.

So again, how are you ?

[Christopher A. Lee]

Bollocks.

As usual, you're attempting to describe people outside your particular
theism as if its doctrinal tenets applied to them.

And your "arguments" include bringing up nonsense where it is
inappropriate, and neither wanted nor needed.

Your particular god called "God" is merely one out of hundreds, if not
thousands, of equally irrelevant beliefs that are only important to
their believers.

You really have to take off your god-blinders and think outside the
barriers your religion has erected around your mind.

>The theist already is convinced, and it requires undeniable facts
>to challenge his faith, he has a "show me" mindset and will "fall
>away". There is the atheist who generally will stand by his views
>regardless of the strength of an argument favoring Gods existence,
>even insisting there is no evidence.

What "strength of an argument favoring Gods existence"?

None has been provided that stands up to the slightest scrutiny. Like
your own neverending question-begging, your own ad hominems based on
amateur-psychologised personal lies, etc.

Just like all the other arguments for all the other god-beliefs out
there that you ignore the way non-Christians would ignore yours if
you had the commonsense and courtesy to keep them where they belong.

>Before Darwin, as most scientist observed phenomena and described
>it and its purpose or function, they saw this as evidence of
>design and design as the manifestation of God,

Because pretty well everybody was raised theist, usually Christian,
and they accepted the then current paradigms because they had no
reason to think otherwise - until they realised these couldn't account
for their observations and results.

Please try to be a little less dishonest next time.

Those who actually did science, revised their beliefs in the light of
their discoveries. Eg Newton became a mechanist, a form of deist who
believed that the god he had been raised believing, set things in
motion and left the universe to run itself according to the laws of
physics he had discovered. And Darwin became an agnostic because he
couldn't reconcile the eat-or-be-eaten cruelty of natural selection
with the benevolent and loving god of his childhood.

> who was the designer.

But not for scientific reasons. Again, please try to be less dishonest
next time.

>In reality many scientific disciplines were founded by Religious
>persons and numerous disciplines by Catholic Priest and clergy.

So frikking what? Everybody was Christian. Those who were successful
scientists stepped aside from their religious beliefs and didn't let
these interfere with their work.

>"Thinking God's thoughts after him". - Johannes Kepler

So?

>Darwin however, observing perhaps much of the same phenomena and
>advanced theory of evolution where what was observed could be
>presented as evidence of his theory.

Absolute bollocks.

His theory was derived from the evidence, imbecile. He didn't come up
with evolution - that was already known among the educated. He found
that what he observed could not be explained within the then
prevailing paradigm, Lamarck's, so he came up with his own which
fitted his observations.

> This has been described as
>"Darwin's greatest discovery Design without a Designer".

Not according to your link...

>https://www.researchgate.net/publication/6336726_Darwin's_greatest_discovery_Design_without_designer

Notice that Ayala put the word "design" in quotes to show that it
wasn't actually design, and also said...

"The theory of evolution conveys chance and necessity, randomness and
determinism, jointly enmeshed in the stuff of life. This was Darwin's
fundamental discovery, that there is a process that is creative,
although not conscious."

>As a consequence of accepting Darwin's theory which became a
>paradigm for most scientists and many non scientists, whatever

Because nothing has been found in more than a century and a half since
it was published, which refutes anything apart from research into a
few details, and pretty well every new discovery has confirmed it.

>they observed; tested; is interpreted within the paradigm "set up"
>by Darwin, consequently this is was interpreted as evidence for evolution.

Your usual bullshit. Darwin's explanation was predictive. It described
what should be found - and it was. And that is how new discoveries are
added to it.

>What this means is that evidence is, in reality, subjective and
>can be interpreted, within the evolution model or the design
>model.

Why do you keep repeating this lie that projects your own way of
thinking, where you plucked design out of your arse and then twisted
the results of scientific research to claim it was evidence for that?

>Recognizing this reality, atheist devised the proposition that
>there _is_ NO design in nature.

Not design per se, the way you mean, liar.

And it's nothing to do with atheism.

Until you come up with a way to determine it, neither atheists,
scientists nor science even give it a thought. Even scientists who are
theists, although they sometimes prostitute their profession when
talking to a religious audience to try and reconcile the two.

But science per se doesn't even give gods a thought, and neither do
atheists - in spite of your lies about us, to us.

>Examples of this contrivance:

What "contrivance", despicable, dishonest, pathetic liar?

> “Biology is the study of complicated things that give the appearance
>of having been designed for a purpose.” - Richard Dawkins

"Appearence", not "is", imbecile.

This is yet another Ron Dean -ism. Are you sure you're not another of
his sock-puppets?

You know perfectly well that when they say this in books for the
layman, it's followed by explanations why it is only apparent, not
actual.

But your context-free quote doesn't say what followed it, or even
where it is from.

A major clue is when a mined quote is inserted into a different
context to make it seem as if a scientist, researcher, etc holds views
which are opposite to what is known about their work.

>Biologists must constantly keep in mind that what they see was not
>designed, but rather evolved. - Francis Crick ( Nobel Prize Laureate in
>Physiology and Medicine), "What Mad Pursuit," 1990, p.138.

And they don't even give a thought to design. Whether they are theist
or atheist. If they are the former, they step aside from their beliefs
when they do their work. He wasn't speaking to biologists or even
scientists, this was a book for laymen.

> The illusion of design is so successful that to this day most
>Americans (including, significantly, many influential and rich
>Americans) stubbornly refuse to believe it is an illusion. To such
>people, if a heart (or an eye or a bacterial flagellum) looks designed,
>that’s proof enough that it is designed.

But they aren't scientists working in the field.

>www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1535529/posts
>
>After Darwin, we all should feel, deep in our bones, suspicious of the
>very idea of design. The illusion of design is a trap that has caught us
>before, and Darwin should have immunized us by raising our
>consciousness. Would that he had succeeded with all of us. (Richard
>Dawkins, The God Delusion, Kindle Edition, pp. 138-139)

He was talking about creationists and IDiots, ie people like you.

I defy anybody to read Origin and come up with a different
explanation.

For fuck's sake, it has been explained to you over and over again, why
there is no way to determine design. But you keep ignoring this and
repeating your original bullshit as if it makes the obvious objections
disappear. And you resort to lies about its being rejected because of
bias, the objectors are atheists, etc.

>Since, evidence of design implies a designer, it becomes clear
>that the absence of design prospective is imperative. This

Why can't you stop lying?

You know perfectly well that there are two ways to determine design...

1. Having something that wasn't designed for comparison.

2. Knowing enough about a designer already to know what it designed.

But neither work at the designer-of-everything level, because...

1. There is nothing that wasn't designed, for comparison

2. You would first have to demonstrate this designer-of-everything and
show that you know enough about it, to know that it actually _did_
design everything. Which presumes what you are supposed to be
deriving.

I prophesy that you won't address these, this time, either.

And you also know perfectly well that scientists, science and atheists
don't even give it a thought, let alone for the reason you lied about.

>however, is philosophical and for naturalism, absence of design
>is axiomatic.

Another of your lies. There is no reason even to consider it.

> And for the scientific convention, if it's
>purported to be explainable through non-natural means, then it
>is not scientific by definition.

Deliberate distortion.

"Non-natural means" have never been demonstrated. Nothing has ever b
een shown to be "non-natural".

In spite of your pretence, there is no way to determine actual design.
Until somebody provides actual evidence, there is nothing for science
even to consider.

And until them it remains merely the pre-existing religious belief
with the dishonest pretence that it doesn't have to be the god they
previously insisted did it whenthey were creationists.

>But to emphasize this, it is convention and philosophical, there is no
>logical argument, evidence or objective justification or this exclusion.

More bullshit. There is no reason for its inclusion - because it is
plucked out of the collective arses of believers, and nothing points
in that direction.

If it did, science would have gone down that route.

[Christopher A. Lee]

None of which you liars have ever provided or shown to be.

>It's convention and philosophy which insist on naturalistic
>interpretation. It is not a demand of evidence.

It's yet another attempt to avoid your burden of proof when you
claimed design.

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/18/18 Easily & irrefutably proving GOD's existence a 4th time ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ

[Rev. Ken Jones]

On 10/18/2018 1:14 PM, Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> Rev. Ken Jones wrote:
>>>>> HeartDoc Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> + 10/10/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 3rd time ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ
>>
>> YOu've heard the old saying. "Proof is only in death and taxes".
>
> Source:
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/K-hD5GocBgAJ
>
> It is written that we are to "prove all things." (1 Thessalonians
> 5:21)

> ore, for those of us, who are believers, to not prove the
> existence of GOD is to sin.
>

I'm convinced there is evidence for God. And it's based upon a
comparatively recent discovery in Switzerland
in 1983. And this
discovery can be seen as empirical evidence for design which
infers a designer, God. And this is the discovery of master
control genes or homeobox genes. These are short genes of 180
base pairs: about 300 of these genes have been described.

There is no demand within the evidence itself which insist
that it be interpreted in accordance of naturalism. It's purely
and some 92%philosophical to assert that such evidence must be interpreted

within the naturalistic paradigm. There is almost 25,000
identical genes that's shared by humans and mice,
there is about 13,500 genes that shared between fruit flies
and humans and 98 - 99% of our DNA is shared with chimpanzees.

We share so much of our genetics, so the question is what
causes the differences. Until after 1983, no one knew. Of
course, this is called Evo Devo short for evolutionary
development, but for me, this is where deliberate, and
purposeful design comes into play. For this reason:
1)these homeobox genes are universal, shared by all
animals of the animal kingdom (so far tested). 2)they are
ancient, existing before the Cambrian explosion. 3)they are
virtually fixed, called highly conserved by biologist.

These master control genes (tool kit) is at the head or
upstream and controls the downstream genes which in turn
sculpt the body shape, organs and limbs of all animals.
>
The first example of the function of a master control gene
was done at the University of Basel in Swertzland in983
when Prof. Walter Grhring who removed the Pax6 gene from a
mouse and inserted it into the genome of a fruit fly. This
mouse master control gene expressed compound fruit fly
eyes in the fly which had vision. This same homeobox gene
called homologues controls the formation of eyes in
humans, zebra fish, octopi the blind spots in worms etc.etc.
This is on one of these homeobox genes. There are others
such as the binman (From wizard o Oz) controls the formation
of hearts in fruit flies, mice zebra fish an humans. the
Dll master control gene governs the down stream genes which
forms limbs fins wings etc. There are almost 300 others, some
of which analyzed and described in Germany and given German
names.

For some curious reason this discovery made in Europe has
had little acknowledgement in the US. even though it has
been called the 3/rd advancement in evolution, with
Darwin's theory the 1/th and the Synthetic theory the
second advancement.

As far as I'm concerned, this fits the concept of purposeful
and deliberate design just as well as it does evolution.

[servant]

Andy andy, you made the challenge to non-believers, it just done don''t
work; now done it?

So fess up and stop making this face loosing claim for we believers:

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

Rev. Ken Jones wrote:
> HeartDoc Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>> Rev. Ken Jones wrote:
>>>>>> HeartDoc Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> + 10/10/18 Again easily proving the existence of GOD a 3rd time ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/sftIKtncAwAJ
>>>
>>> YOu've heard the old saying. "Proof is only in death and taxes".
>>
>> Source:
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/K-hD5GocBgAJ
>>
>> It is written that we are to "prove all things." (1 Thessalonians
>> 5:21)
>>

>> Therefore, for those of us, who are believers, to not prove the

>> existence of GOD is to sin.
>>

>> It is further written that the LORD commands us to stop sinning (John
>> 5:14).
>>
>> In the interim, I am simply wonderfully hungry (
>> http://bit.ly/Philippians4_12 ) and hope you, Rev. Ken, also have a
>> healthy appetite too.
>>
>> So how are you ?
>>
>

> I'm convinced there is evidence for God.

All His creations are evidence for our Creator GOD and testify to His
existence.

A house testifies to the existence of its builder.

> And it's based upon a
> comparatively recent discovery in Switzerland
> in 1983. And this
> discovery can be seen as empirical evidence for design which
> infers a designer, God. And this is the discovery of master
> control genes or homeobox genes. These are short genes of 180
> base pairs: about 300 of these genes have been described.

Actually, these genes are larger than 180 base pairs in mammals.

"Mammalian Hox genes are small, each containing only two exons and a
single intron which varies from less than 200 bases to several
kilobases (Figure 3)."

Source:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1891803/

I hope your being able to write about homeobox genes means you, Rev.

Ken, also have a healthy appetite too.

So you do have the ability to eat a piece of healthy fruit at the
moment, don't you (yes/no) ?

[Christopher A. Lee]

On Thu, 18 Oct 2018 16:15:17 -0400, Attila <<proc...@here.now>
wrote:

>On Thu, 18 Oct 2018 13:16:12 -0400, "Rev. Ken Jones" <"Rev. Ken

>Jones"@gmail.com> in alt.atheism with message-id

>Such as what? Unambiguous and not connected in any way with any
>religion.

It's pretty clear that he's a Ron Dean sock puppet. He uses the same
arguments with the same phrasing, the same pretence that "appears to
be" means "is", the same red herrings, the same amateur-psychologised
falsehoods as ad hominems, etc.

He won't provide what you ask for.

>>It's convention and philosophy which insist on naturalistic
>>interpretation. It is not a demand of evidence.
>
>

>If it's real it has supporting evidence.

Yep.

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

+ 10/18/18 Obsessively ...

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.bible.prophecy/Ym8TcuRVTkY/-Rac6gemBgAJ

[Rev. Ken Jones]

I don't think Dean, Pagano or Nyikos made more sense than anyone else.
I read most of what these three guys wrote. So are you sure I don't
sound like Pagano or Nyikos? These three inspired me.

He uses the same
> arguments with the same phrasing, the same pretence that "appears to
> be" means "is", the same red herrings, the same amateur-psychologised
> falsehoods as ad hominems, etc.
>

They made a lot more sense to me than you.

[Rev. Ken Jones]

Dean was wrong in that he refused to take his arguments to their logical
conclusion. God. He was right as far as he would go, but not all the way.

[Christopher A. Lee]

What a remarkably revealing giveaway by the troll.

> He uses the same
>> arguments with the same phrasing, the same pretence that "appears to
>> be" means "is", the same red herrings, the same amateur-psychologised
>> falsehoods as ad hominems, etc.
> >
>They made a lot more sense to me than you.

Only if you are remarkably ignorant of the most basic logic.

[Christopher A. Lee]

What "logical conclusion", troll?

[Rev. Ken Jones]

two things Neither Rob Dean nor T Pagao would admit to God as the
logical conclusion of the supporting evidence they introduced.
Both Dean and Pagao are gone probably for good. That is sad. Now as far
as a troll in the context of a forum, I have no idea what this means,
but no doubt, from your sick mind it's just another of your smears and
slanders.

[Michael Christ]

Hey idiot, you got sucked in by him.

Well, I can't call you that too harshly, the asshole of Chungism sucked
me in too, but he is stuck in his own shithole.

One thing you can be happy about is that you did it, now can you go the
*whole* way??? Y'know, turn the talk into walk.





Michael Christ

[Christopher A. Lee]

On Thu, 18 Oct 2018 18:36:55 -0400, "Rev. Ken Jones" <"Rev. Ken

You simply reap what you sow, so stop lying about that, troll.