Can this cause harm??
stryped
wondering, would it hurt me to run with a mouthpiece in similar to
what you wear while playing football. To get the body used to
performing with less oxygen? Or would this be bad for the heart or
other organs?
I know elite runners will train at high altitudes to do the same
thing.
I was just curious.
Truth
Elite runners train at higher altitudes to have their bodies become
more efficient by performing on air with a lower percentage of
inspired oxygen. You would only be restricting your airflow. It is not
at all the same thing and I don't recommend you train that way.
Intervals of all out sprints then race pace will help you improve your
time.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
This automatically happens by becoming healthier.
> I got to
> wondering, would it hurt me to run with a mouthpiece in similar to
> what you wear while playing football.
No.
If such protective mouthpieces were harmful, they would be banned from being sold to our athletes.
> To get the body used to performing with less oxygen?
Your nostrils would not be obstructed so there would be no suffocation.
> Or would this be bad for the heart or other organs?
No. See above.
> I know elite runners will train at high altitudes to do the same thing.
Not if they are not planning to run a race at high altitudes.
> I was just curious.
Hopefully, this means you are having less palpitations.
Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be healthier:
http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/BeHealthier
Marana tha
Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit,
Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com
A latter-day disciple of the KING of kings and LORD of lords.
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/DiscipleNow
Uncle Frederik
Concentration of O2 at higher altitudes is lesser than at sea level.
Therefore training in such circumstances would stimulate your body
produce more RBCs.
However, as you are training at sea level, using a restrictive
mouthpiece would only stress your accessory muscles, IMO. I doubt it
will improve performance.
> I was just curious.
Truth
wrote:
<Bad Chung medical advice snipped>
Once again, Chung proves that he is not fit to practice medicine or
give sound medical advice. Chung ignored the OP's intent in the
question that was asked and implied that it is okay and even helpful
to use a protective mouthpiece during running training to increase
stamina to run a 5 K. Chung completely ignored the fact that there is
no need to wear a protective mouth guard while running and that it
would obstruct air flow (ie minute ventilation) in a potentially
harmful way, even though the nostrils were not obstructed. One does
not have to be suffocated to be harmed.
Altitude training is used by some competitive athletes, even those who
are not intending to race at high altitudes.
http://www.runningonline.com/zine/Training/133.sht
The OP asked if wearing a mouthpiece and therefore obstructing air
flow while training would mimic the same effects as exercising at
higher altitudes would. The answer is no. Athletes train at altitude
in order to have their bodies become more adapted and efficient at
using oxygen, which is present in lower fractions of inspired air at
altitude. This in turn may increase red blood cells hemoglobin and
oxygen carrying capacity. Wearing a mouthpiece while running only
serves to decrease the amount (minute volume) of air one breaths. The
oxygen concentration of the air is still the same.
stryped
Is there any way to replicate the high altitude training without being
in a higher altitude?
Uncle Frederik
Tie Chung on your head and run as fast as you can... ?
Uncle Frederik
> stryped was thinking very hard :
>> Is there any way to replicate the high altitude training without being
>> in a higher altitude?
>
> Tie Chung on your head and run as fast as you can... ?
On a serious note:
http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10.1089/15270290260131911
http://www.elite-performance.org/downloads/iht_study.pdf
:-)
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
> Is there any way to replicate the high altitude training without being
> in a higher altitude?
By running in a depressurization chamber...
... but the risk of high altitude sickness is greater than the
benefit, which is zero if there are no plans for running competitively
in a race that is to be conducted at a higher altitude.
It remains smarter to simply become healthier to improve athletic
performance.
Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be healthier...
Prayerfully in the awesome name of LORD Jesus Christ,
Andrew <><
--
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3558812d72ab4e17?
Uncle Frederik
> stryped wrote:
>>> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>>
>> Is there any way to replicate the high altitude training without being
>> in a higher altitude?
>
> By running in a depressurization chamber...
With you attached on the atheletes head?
Don Kirkman
<8b3aab5f-4301-4b15...@27g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>:
By "do the same thing" do you mean run with a mouthpiece, or get the body used
to performing with less oxygen? It makes a difference.
ISTM using a mouthpiece is potentially dangerous since it could accidentally be
inhaled. If this happened to a football player, he is in a crowd at all times
(and football players remove their mouthpieces every few minutes). Runners
typically tend to be alone, away from help, and unwilling to make adjustments
(like removing a mouthpiece and resting a while) during their training runs.
>I was just curious.
I'm also curious - why you think it would work. The usual way to improve times
is to train by learning to run faster with the same amount of oxygen.
Pramesh Rutaji
Get a tent designed to go over your bed and lower the oxygen level to
the altitude you want to train at. It will set you back a couple of
thousand bucks.
--
Pramesh Rutaji
p297ton...@newsguy.com - remove tongue to reply
Don Kirkman
>> http://www.runningonline.com/zine/Training/133.sht
AFAIK from about thirty years of running, reading running magazines and running
newsgroups, reading a few running books, running with (a few) people of Olympic
caliber, and running some 90 races including marathons, all I know of is to
simulate high altitude training by breathing an air mixture with reduced oxygen
through a mask or in a specially built chamber. As all the most credible
messages are telling you, it's not the volume of air but the richness of the
mixture you breathe that counts.
Truth
> It seems to me I heard somewhere that stryped wrote in article
Unless stryped is already an elite runner who regularly finishes 5Ks
with world class times, he would do well to concentrate on interval
training and stride techniques to improve his 5K time rather than
worrying about oxygen percentage breathed.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> stryped wrote:
>
> >I am a 36 year old runner wanting to improve my 5k times. I got to
> >wondering, would it hurt me to run with a mouthpiece in similar to
> >what you wear while playing football. To get the body used to
> >performing with less oxygen? Or would this be bad for the heart or
> >other organs?
>
> >I know elite runners will train at high altitudes to do the same
> >thing.
>
> By "do the same thing" do you mean run with a mouthpiece, or get the body used
> to performing with less oxygen? It makes a difference.
>
> ISTM using a mouthpiece is potentially dangerous since it could accidentally be
> inhaled.
The mouthpiece is not likely to get past the epiglottis especially
when tethered to the face mask.
May we, who are Christians, continue to pray for your perishing soul,
dear Don:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/134aca053227804c?
Don Kirkman
<22287a6c-8429-4a94...@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>:
>convicted neighbor Don Kirkman wrote:
>> stryped wrote:
>> >I am a 36 year old runner wanting to improve my 5k times. I got to
>> >wondering, would it hurt me to run with a mouthpiece in similar to
>> >what you wear while playing football. To get the body used to
>> >performing with less oxygen? Or would this be bad for the heart or
>> >other organs?
>> >I know elite runners will train at high altitudes to do the same
>> >thing.
>> By "do the same thing" do you mean run with a mouthpiece, or get the body used
>> to performing with less oxygen? It makes a difference.
>> ISTM using a mouthpiece is potentially dangerous since it could accidentally be
>> inhaled.
>The mouthpiece is not likely to get past the epiglottis especially
>when tethered to the face mask.
You're making assumptions without any basis; nobody including the OP has
mentioned the size or shape of a possible mouthpiece, nor has a face mask been
contemplated at all. (I don't recall seeing football players with face masks
of the type you seem to have in mind.) And are you implying that it's possible
to choke on an object only if it gets *past* the epiglottis?
Don Kirkman
<375027c0-a42d-4e1e...@u36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>:
Absolutely true, and even a good many of the world class elite don't do altitude
training. My intent, badly presented, was to give Stryped some idea of the
complexity of even attempting to simulate altitude training. Thanks for setting
it all straight.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> > convicted neighbor Don Kirkman <dons...@charter.net> wrote:
> >> stryped wrote:
> >> >satan via a sockpuppet (corporeal demon) despairingly posted:
> >> >> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
>
> >> >> > This automatically happens by becoming healthier
>
> >> >> give sound medical advice.
Lie.
It remains my choice to not give specific medical advice via usenet.
> >> >> <hiss sputter hiss hiss>
>
> >> >Is there any way to replicate the high altitude training without being
> >> >in a higher altitude?
>
> >> AFAIK from about thirty years of running, reading running magazines and running
> >> newsgroups, reading a few running books, running with (a few) people of Olympic
> >> caliber, and running some 90 races including marathons, all I know of is to
> >> simulate high altitude training by breathing an air mixture with reduced oxygen
> >> through a mask or in a specially built chamber. As all the most credible
> >> messages are telling you, it's not the volume of air but the richness of the
> >> mixture you breathe that counts.
>
> >Unless stryped is already an elite runner who regularly finishes 5Ks
> >with world class times, he would do well to concentrate on interval
> >training and stride techniques to improve his 5K time rather than
> >worrying about oxygen percentage breathed.
>
> Absolutely true...
Not for the discerning.
Folks like Stryped with cardiac symptoms (palpitations) should focus
on becoming healthier as the sole means of improving their physicial
performance.
Truth is simple.
Uncle Frederik
> It remains my choice to not give specific medical advice via usenet.
But you do a lot of religious propaganda, no?
Uncle Frederik
>> ISTM using a mouthpiece is potentially dangerous since it could accidentally
>> be inhaled.
>
> The mouthpiece is not likely to get past the epiglottis
So you're not very sure there, are you?
Thanks.
Don Kirkman
>convicted neighbor Don Kirkman wrote:
>>Yamantaka wrote:
>> >Unless stryped is already an elite runner who regularly finishes 5Ks
>> >with world class times, he would do well to concentrate on interval
>> >training and stride techniques to improve his 5K time rather than
>> >worrying about oxygen percentage breathed.
>> Absolutely true...
>Not for the discerning.
>Folks like Stryped with cardiac symptoms (palpitations) should focus
>on becoming healthier as the sole means of improving their physicial
>performance.
When did you examine Stryped to develop this diagnosis and what literature
supports your anti-exercise fixation that he needs to become healthier to
improve his physical performance? The man has been running much more than you
have.
These statements seem to come pretty close to practicing medicine and offering
medical advice, both of which you routinely deny that you do.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
>
>These statements seem to come pretty close to practicing medicine...
Not to the discerning.
> and offering medical advice...
Not to the most casual observer.
> , both of which you routinely deny that you do.
It remains my choice to continue writing truthfully...
.. which is easy to do when guided by the Spirit of truth, Who is the Holy Spirit:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/KnowingHIM
Your difficulties here simply shows that the Holy Spirit is absolutely right to convict you:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts
May we, who are Christians, continue to pray for your perishing soul, dear Don:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/PrayForDon
Uncle Frederik
>> These statements seem to come pretty close to practicing medicine...
>
> Not to the discerning.
What about spamming and religious propaganda? You do a lot of that,
no?
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Uncle Frederik
<nothing>
Truth
wrote:
<snip Chung Dung>
Chung is a liar, a fraud and unfit to practice medicine.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Uncle Frederik
Ditto.
Origins of the 2 pound diet in Chung's own words..
"About two years ago, my wife and I watched an IMAX film about climbing
Mt. Everest and learned that despite their exhausting regimen, the
climbers consumed only 10 lbs of food per week. That's less than 2 lbs
of food per day! Since none of the climbers died from starvation, I
think it is safe to assume that 2 lbs per day should be more than
adequate for us non-climbing folks. " -- Andrew B Chung
So clearly it was not the HS, as he now claims, that inspired him...
MU
>>I am a 36 year old runner wanting to improve my 5k times. I got to
>>wondering, would it hurt me to run with a mouthpiece in similar to
>>what you wear while playing football. To get the body used to
>>performing with less oxygen? Or would this be bad for the heart or
>>other organs?
>
>>I know elite runners will train at high altitudes to do the same
>>thing.
>
> ISTM using a mouthpiece is potentially dangerous since it could accidentally be
> inhaled.
I don't see it making the path to the lungs but, go on...
MU
> Origins of the 2 pound diet in Chung's own words..
>
> "About two years ago, my wife and I watched an IMAX film about climbing
> Mt. Everest and learned that despite their exhausting regimen, the
> climbers consumed only 10 lbs of food per week. That's less than 2 lbs
> of food per day! Since none of the climbers died from starvation, I
> think it is safe to assume that 2 lbs per day should be more than
> adequate for us non-climbing folks. " -- Andrew B Chung
>
> So clearly it was not the HS, as he now claims, that inspired him...
I do love it when children attempt to present half-facts, youthfully
(and "clearly" lol) interpreted, as whole and undeniable Truths.
Did your Mummy and Daddy influence you? Were you always aware at the
moment of influence of their power over you?
See how that works?
Dancing Monkey
I buy. You dance.
Now.
Dancing Monkey
???????? Mr Chang and you are invited to take up my pizza and beer deal and
be my guinea pigs
Take it or leave it.
Uncle Frederik
Clearly only an ignoramus would think that the mouth is directly
connected to the lungs. But go on...
Uncle Frederik
>> Origins of the 2 pound diet in Chung's own words..
>>
>> "About two years ago, my wife and I watched an IMAX film about climbing
>> Mt. Everest and learned that despite their exhausting regimen, the
>> climbers consumed only 10 lbs of food per week. That's less than 2 lbs
>> of food per day! Since none of the climbers died from starvation, I
>> think it is safe to assume that 2 lbs per day should be more than
>> adequate for us non-climbing folks. " -- Andrew B Chung
>>
>> So clearly it was not the HS, as he now claims, that inspired him...
>
> I do love it when children attempt to present half-facts, youthfully
> (and "clearly" lol) interpreted, as whole and undeniable Truths.
Clearly you are an ignoramus.
> Did your Mummy and Daddy influence you? Were you always aware at the
> moment of influence of their power over you?
Obviously something I have written has touched a nerved.
> See how that works?
Oh yeah, looks like it did.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
MU
>>> Origins of the 2 pound diet in Chung's own words..
>>>
>>> "About two years ago, my wife and I watched an IMAX film about climbing
>>> Mt. Everest and learned that despite their exhausting regimen, the
>>> climbers consumed only 10 lbs of food per week. That's less than 2 lbs
>>> of food per day! Since none of the climbers died from starvation, I
>>> think it is safe to assume that 2 lbs per day should be more than
>>> adequate for us non-climbing folks. " -- Andrew B Chung
>>>
>>> So clearly it was not the HS, as he now claims, that inspired him...
>>
>> I do love it when children attempt to present half-facts, youthfully
>> (and "clearly" lol) interpreted, as whole and undeniable Truths.
>> Did your Mummy and Daddy influence you? Were you always aware at the
>> moment of influence of their power over you?
>
> Obviously something I have written has touched a nerved.
Let's try this again.
Do you always know at the moment of being influenced by someone or
something, that you were?
MU
>>>> I know elite runners will train at high altitudes to do the same
>>>> thing.
>>>
>>> ISTM using a mouthpiece is potentially dangerous since it could accidentally
>>> be inhaled.
>>
>> I don't see it making the path to the lungs but, go on...
>
> Clearly only an ignoramus would think that the mouth is directly
> connected to the lungs. But go on...
Thanks, Inhaling is the act of breathing into the lungs. it could also
be used in terms of ingestion nonetheless, it has to end up inside
either the lungs or the tummy-wummy (or as we experts call it, the
stomach).
Now show me a mouthpiece that would be able to pass to the lungs. Or
tummy-wummy, Mr. Kiddie.
Forin all the years i trained athletes, was and am an athlete, I have
never once seen one or heard of one so inhaled.
Over to you, Mr. Kiddie. lol