The Two Phases of Spellwork
Sidney Lambe
Now, for those who are interested in real magick, we
will leave the useless theatrical woo-woo of commercial
Wicca behind for a bit.
The Two Phases of Spellwork
Everyone knows about casting spells, but that's only one phase of
spellwork.
The other phase, and probably the more important one, is reading
spells.
When you cast a spell successfully, it does not simply vanish,
it is moved to the background of your conscious mind where it
is maintained. It becomes a part of your belief system. Spells
are beliefs, creative constructs consisting of a central concept
surrounded by emotions and imaginings.
In order to properly and effectively cast a spell, you have to
know your own belief system. You have to know the spells you are
already maintaining.
It does no good to cast a spell for something if you are already
maintaining one that contradicts it. And in order to replace
that spell with the new one you have to face it and the reasons
you cast it in the first place. These are also in your conscious
mind.
Reading your own mind involves being able to divorce your sense
of identity from it. You are not your spells/beliefs, you are the
being that _has_ these things. You need to learn to 'step back'
and view the contents of your own conscious mind as if they were
any other natural phenomena. Which they are, of course.
See these articles for background:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/937efafdee96fb64
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/962e0d14d4eef742
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/2667fd32fb1e6189
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/fb2c86695b925775
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/fd4ae2a7007797c1
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/17f62b2931fee8fb
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/2667fd32fb1e6189
Sid
--
My newsfilter kills more than half the posts to these groups,
including replies to any name in my killfile. So if I don't
respond to a reply it is because I didn't see it.
Thou shalt not suffer a troll to speak in thine presence.
Sidney Lambe
Osiris Slain <psychon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> p://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/962e0d14d4eef742http://g=
> roups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/2667fd32fb1e6189http://groups=
> .google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/fb2c86695b925775http://groups.goog=
> le.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/fd4ae2a7007797c1http://groups.google.co=
> m/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/17f62b2931fee8fbhttp://groups.google.com/gro=
> up/alt.religion.wicca/msg/2667fd32fb1e6189
>>
>> Sid
>>
>> --
>> My newsfilter kills more than half the posts to these groups,
>> including replies to any name in my killfile. So if I don't
>> respond to a reply it is because I didn't see it.
>> Thou shalt not suffer a troll to speak in thine presence.
>
>
> I disagree with your hypothesis. In my experience you are actually
> more likely to have a success with spell casting if you let the spell
> 'vanish'. If you think about your spell all you do is dissipate the
> energy.
>
> Roughly, spell casting is equivalent to hypnotism: you bypass the
> psychic censor and send a message to the subconscious mind. The idea
> is to get the subconscious mind to accept the new idea as part of its
> model of reality. Unfortunately, the subconscious mind has a self-
> correcting facility and so if the spell doesn't manifest soon, the
> idea will be kicked out. This is why getting hypnotized to change a
> habit like smoking only works for short periods. As soon as the model
> of reality self-corrects, one starts smoking again.
>
> In my experience spells of this kind (e.g. sigil magic) have to yield
> results fairly quickly to work and further, results tend to be
> somewhat limited in how much one can achieve. It is far more effective
> to get involved in commerce with disembodied beings, who really can
> effect large changes in one's physical reality.
>
> Light in extension,
> Osiris Slain
I suggest that you go back to square one and try to forget
all the theories you've read and learn to observe your mind
objectively. Then look beyond it. Base your theories on your
experiences rather than forcing your _perceptions_ of your
experiences to fit the theories you've read.
Sidney Lambe
>> #Followup-To set to alt.religion.wicca
>>
Real Magick and Commercial Psuedo-Magick
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/e8b30795d19de303
Magickal Science
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/285af6796f80e3a8
A Teacher of Magick
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/937efafdee96fb64
Magick -- Back to Basics
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/962e0d14d4eef742
See also the posts of separatus to me on this thread and my responses to them.
Magick as a Supernatural Technology
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/2667fd32fb1e6189
Some Thoughts on the Nature of Magick
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/fd4ae2a7007797c1
What's a Mage
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/17f62b2931fee8fb
Priests and Teachers
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/fb2c86695b925775
charlatans:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/6546f5315283a741
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/481a2c3b324d9f55
The Two Phases of Spellwork:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.magick/msg/be7dc4cab9b5f2e5
It's All Good
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/2e9bf77dd0854e39
Some Thoughts on Magick
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/0bfd7a825aa4f2c1
Spells
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/c303b5e5ab53c405
Basic Magick
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/48f4d78b9b176959
First Steps in Magick
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.wicca/msg/b319bfe3a138087d
>>
>>
>> > Hi Sid,
>>
>> > I disagree with your hypothesis. In my experience you are actually
>> > more likely =A0to have a success with spell casting if you let the spel=
> l
>> > 'vanish'. If you think about your spell all you do is dissipate the
>> > energy.
>>
>> > Roughly, spell casting is equivalent to hypnotism: you bypass the
>> > psychic censor and send a message to the subconscious mind. The idea
>> > is to get the subconscious mind to accept the new idea as part of its
>> > model of reality. Unfortunately, the subconscious mind has a self-
>> > correcting facility and so if the spell doesn't manifest soon, the
>> > idea will be kicked out. This is why getting hypnotized to change a
>> > habit like smoking only works for short periods. As soon as the model
>> > of reality self-corrects, one starts smoking again.
>>
>> > In my experience spells of this kind (e.g. sigil magic) have to yield
>> > results fairly quickly to work and further, results tend to be
>> > somewhat limited in how much one can achieve. It is far more effective
>> > to get involved in commerce with disembodied beings, who really can
>> > effect large changes in one's physical reality.
>>
>> > Light in extension,
>> > Osiris Slain
>>
>> I suggest that you go back to square one and try to forget
>> all the theories you've read and learn to observe your mind
>> objectively. Then look beyond it. Base your theories on your
>> experiences rather than forcing your _perceptions_ of your
>> experiences to fit the theories you've read.
> Hi Sid,
>
> I know this through practice rather than just theory.
You think you do.
> I am a
> practicing magician who is actually able to manifest. Are you?
Now there's a claim that would be almost impossible to substantiate.
So why make it?
>
> LVX
We are all magickal beings. It is our nature. Prayer to any
supposed deity will work to some degree. Creative visualization
will work to some degree. Ritual magick will work to some degree.
Just wishing and hoping will work to some degree. Any theory
will seem to work to some degree if you really believe in it.
Beliefs are spells.
The nature of reality is what it is. It is not changed by opinions
or theories or belief. You either perceive it accurately or you
don't.
sarchasm
>
> The nature of reality is what it is. It is not changed by opinions
> or theories or belief.
>
This would include lamchops' opinions and beliefs concerning the nature of
reality.
>
> You either perceive it accurately or you don't.
>
Perception is a subjective interpretation, these vary. There is no evidence
to indicate that lampchops perceives reality accurately.
Sidney Lambe
> On Dec 29, 11:35=A0pm, Sidney Lambe <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> The nature of reality is what it is. It is not changed by opinions
>> or theories or belief. You either perceive it accurately or you
>> don't.
>>
>> Sid
>
Likewise.
>
> Are you aware of the hologram theory of reality? It is a theory which
> is gaining ground and one which explains the nature of reality quite
> well. It also explains how magic works.
More or less. There are many ways to intellectually approach the
actual 'mechanics' of reality.
>
> Everyone perceives their own reality accurately; it's a question of
> how other people that perceive the same reality which makes empirical
> measurement necessary in the sciences. Moreover, opinions and beliefs
> definitely do affect reality. This is why drug studies require double-
> blind trials. It is accepted fact that even if only the doctor knows
> which is the placebo, that knowledge alone affects the result. And
> fully a third of patients, on average, will heal themselves with a
> placebo from almost any illness.
Sure. All that's basically true.
But the shared beliefs that affect mass reality may be erroneous.
Some things are true regardless of whether we believe they are or not.
And many things are true _only_ because we believe in them.
The world was never flat, but for a long time most people in the
Western world believed it was. And it _was_ a practical reality
for them. The false belief limited them to a small area of the
Earth's surface and forced them to perceive travelers from other
lands as demons from the abyss, because there couldn't _be_ other
lands when the world ended just over the horizon.
>
> So reality is what your subconscious mind believes it to be.
It's what your _conscious_ mind believes it to be. It only seems
to be subconscious because beliefs are stronger and more stable
than thoughts and are, for the most part, integrated into a
logical framework, a belief system. This is in the background of
the conscious mind, where the ideas are accepted as facts, to
obvious to be questioned.
Believing these beliefs are subconscious will prevent you from
examining them and working freely with them...
> The art of magic, then, is to manipulate your own model of
> reality. This is why we do ritual and exploit backdoors in the
> psychic censor through Gnosis. It is to affect your own model
> of reality.
The only value of a ritual is to focus your attention and relaxe
your body and quiet your mind. These can and should be very
simple and basic. Like breathing exercises. Magickal work is
inner and elaborate rituals are detrimental and misleading. I
don't even call them rituals, but preparatory exercises. Advanced
practicioners don't need them at all.
As for "backdoors in the psychic censors", there aren't any. You
have to deal with your beliefs, the spells you are maintaining.
That's the only way to affect your own model of reality, which
as we both know, is materialized without.
The mind is not physical. It extends into the world all around
you. It 'underlies' the perceived world. We live in the body of
our beliefs/spells. Beliefs shared by many people form a mass
mind that our own minds are a part of to some degree. This mass
mind is much like the environmental climate and weather, a fact
of nature that has to be dealt with. It is not easy to believe
something that contradicts a strongly held belief by the majority
of the people around you.
And most people in the West think magick is bunk.
separatus
The mind is not physical. It extends into the world all around
you. It 'underlies' the perceived world. We live in the body of
our beliefs/spells. Beliefs shared by many people form a mass
mind that our own minds are a part of to some degree. This mass
mind is much like the environmental climate and weather, a fact
of nature that has to be dealt with. It is not easy to believe
something that contradicts a strongly held belief by the majority
of the people around you.
This concept of gestalt mind and consequent gestalt (consensus)
reality perception is intriguing. Go on.
separatus
> to be subconscious because beliefs are stronger and more stable
> than thoughts and are, for the most part, integrated into a
> logical framework, a belief system. This is in the background of
> the conscious mind, where the ideas are accepted as facts, to
> obvious to be questioned.
I believe that you are making a blanket statement here Mr. Lambe. I
agree that beliefs tend to be stronger and more stable than thoughts
are, but they are not necessarily conscious. An irrational fear of
dogs because of an attack you no longer consciously remember is a good
example. A fear (which is a belief) of this type is a denizen of the
unconscious mind. Similarly, a rabid religious view that defies any
discussion I would argue is firmly rooted in the unconscious mind as
well. In other words, beliefs tend to be stronger because they are no
longer fully (or even partially) in the conscious perspective any
more, and are consequently part of the ground rules (or operating
system) of someone's perception of reality.
By and large, I would suggest that beliefs that no longer require
conscious analysis are denizens of the subconscious. The entryway was
through the conscious mind however. However, as someone seeks to
integrate these aspects of being that lie below conscious perception
they can be re-centered in the conscious mind, allowing for
identification, analysis and integration.
That is why someone going to counseling for various issues or has been
undertaking pathworking often encounters emotional hiccups in the
following weeks. We we begin to move the building blocks of our
reality around, the entire structure must shift. As more and more is
integrated into a unified gestalt, the hierarchy in our minds is
gradually reduced into simpler and smaller forms, paralleling the way
icebergs calve off glaciers. When the mind is fully unified, we have a
network of icebergs instead of a mammoth glacier so far as the
machinery of how we filter and understand reality is concerned.
I am not sure that was the best example, but it works.
BBDD
Oh, this is fun! Somewhat like eavesdropping in a mental ward I would
think.
Seamus
<snip the vomit>
Shun the troll.
__
A Warhammer troll is a creature which is subject to stupidity and
attacks by spewing forth its vomit. A Usenet troll is identical in both
respects.
Osiris Slain
Excellent post, separatus. Food for thought. Thank you.
Sidney Lambe
> On Dec 30, 2:37=A0am, Sidney Lambe <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> It's what your _conscious_ mind believes it to be. It only seems
>> to be subconscious because beliefs are stronger and more stable
>> than thoughts and are, for the most part, integrated into a
>> logical framework, a belief system. This is in the background of
>> the conscious mind, where the ideas are accepted as facts, to
>> obvious to be questioned.
>
> I believe that you are making a blanket statement here Mr. Lambe.
True. And you are making several blanket statements below.
> I agree that beliefs tend to be stronger and more stable than thoughts
> are,
The only difference between beliefs and thoughts is that beliefs
are stronger and often more stable.
> but they are not necessarily conscious.
I didn't say that all beliefs/spells are conscious. I said that
the ones we need to concern ourselves with, the ones that form
our present lives that _can_ be changed are conscious.
> An irrational fear of dogs because of an attack you no longer
> consciously remember is a good example.
> A fear (which is a belief) of this type is a denizen of the
> unconscious mind.
No, the belief that dogs are dangerous would be in the conscious
mind, and was at least in part responsible for the original event.
But the belief comes before the materialization.
It is not the past event that is the problem, but the conscious
belief held in the present.
> Similarly, a rabid religious view that defies any
> discussion I would argue is firmly rooted in the unconscious mind as
> well.
And you would be wrong.
> In other words, beliefs tend to be stronger because they are no
> longer fully (or even partially) in the conscious perspective any
> more, and are consequently part of the ground rules (or operating
> system) of someone's perception of reality.
People aren't aware of many of their conscious beliefs because
they don't look for them. They think they are facts, too obvious
to be questioned. They think they are part of their core identity
rather than beliefs they hold.
And because there are ignorant people all over the place telling
that the answers are in their sub/un-conscious.
:-)
>
> By and large, I would suggest that beliefs that no longer require
> conscious analysis are denizens of the subconscious.
You can suggest that moon is made of green cheese if you want to.
The beliefs/spells we need to concern ourselves with are in
the 'background' of our conscious minds. They are stable and
non-intrusive. They become a habit that is easy to ignore.
What you are saying is that a room in your house that you no
longer enter is somehow in a different dimension. But it isn't.
All you need to do is open the door and walk in.
Not the best analogy but not bad.
I've snipped the rest of this because you are just repeating
yourself. Which is what people do when they are trying to
convince themselves of something they know intuitively isn't
true.
Now I'll repeat the truth: The beliefs/spells that you need to concern
yourself with are in your conscious mind.
BBDD
>
> - Show quoted text -
Excellent post? A warhammer troll is a game character. All it says is
that he is a kid into gaming and you are basically suggesting such
make believe as excellent or as your own version of magick. How sad is
that?
separatus
> Excellent post? A warhammer troll is a game character. All it says is
> that he is a kid into gaming and you are basically suggesting such
> make believe as excellent or as your own version of magick. How sad is
> that?
Allen, here is my daily post for you. Have you considered the
undoubtedly remote possibility he has referring to... you?
separatus
> > I believe that you are making a blanket statement here Mr. Lambe.
>
> True. And you are making several blanket statements below.
Also true.
> > I agree that beliefs tend to be stronger and more stable than thoughts
> > are,
> The only difference between beliefs and thoughts is that beliefs
> are stronger and often more stable.
I disagree, respectfully. I submit that thoughts are subject to
consideration by the mind. However, beliefs are generally accepted to
be part of reality and therefore are not necessarily reviewed. If I
believe that all trolls should be ignored, then I will never consider
anything they say until I actually examine that belief that all trolls
should be ignored. BBDD is an example of this. While I find most of
his posts to be comic, he does on occasion provide something thought-
provoking to consider. I might venture that beliefs are thoughts on
autopilot.
> I said that the ones we need to concern ourselves with, the ones that form our present lives that _can_ be changed are conscious.
And unconscious. I'll get to that below.
> > An irrational fear of dogs because of an attack you no longer consciously remember is a good example. A fear (which is a belief) of this type is a denizen of the
> > unconscious mind.
> No, the belief that dogs are dangerous would be in the conscious mind, and was at least in part responsible for the original event.
Again, respectfully I disagree. My sister was mauled by a dog when she
was two years old. Exposed her neck artery and by some happy event
didn't kill her. She has no conscious memory of this event at all. We
were raised with dogs and she loves them all. However, when she saw
that particular breed in her twenties for the first time since that
event, to her perspective an irrational, almost paralyzing fear arose
in her and she had to have the dog taken away. There was no conscious
memory that precipitated that fear. That fear, that belief, lay
quiescent in the unconscious mind.
> It is not the past event that is the problem, but the conscious
> belief held in the present.
See above.
> > Similarly, a rabid religious view that defies any
> > discussion I would argue is firmly rooted in the unconscious mind as
> > well.
>
> And you would be wrong.
Cogently argued. Would you care to elaborate?
> > In other words, beliefs tend to be stronger because they are no
> > longer fully (or even partially) in the conscious perspective any
> > more, and are consequently part of the ground rules (or operating
> > system) of someone's perception of reality.
>
> People aren't aware of many of their conscious beliefs because
> they don't look for them. They think they are facts, too obvious
> to be questioned. They think they are part of their core identity
> rather than beliefs they hold.
>
> And because there are ignorant people all over the place telling
> that the answers are in their sub/un-conscious.
Simply telling me I am wrong is not very persuasive. Doing it twice
doesn't make it more persuasive either. Am I ignorant because I
disagree, or because I am providing specific examples that illustrate
what I am talking about?
> The beliefs/spells we need to concern ourselves with are in
> the 'background' of our conscious minds. They are stable and
> non-intrusive. They become a habit that is easy to ignore.
>
> What you are saying is that a room in your house that you no
> longer enter is somehow in a different dimension. But it isn't.
> All you need to do is open the door and walk in.
Now we are getting somewhere. That's a good example. I was not saying
what you said above. Let's say the conscious mind and memory is the
front room. Absolutely there are other rooms in the house, but they
aren't visible from that front room and contain other thoughts and
memories and even feelings. Only by opening the doors to those rooms
and looking around can we catalog their contents. In fact, with all
the doors open, the whole house is visible from that front room.
> I've snipped the rest of this because you are just repeating
> yourself. Which is what people do when they are trying to
> convince themselves of something they know intuitively isn't
> true.
>
> Now I'll repeat the truth: The beliefs/spells that you need to concern
> yourself with are in your conscious mind.
Your truth. Perhaps one day you will open those other doors.
Sidney Lambe
Can't go much further here. Have just about reached the limits
of my knowledge in this area.
There is a being, the human race, that is the gestalt formed
by all of us, but that's not really what I am referring to above.
(I don't think I am, anyway. Not really sure.)
We create our personal and mass/shared reality with our conscious
beliefs. Beliefs are not physical and are not subject to any apparent
physical laws. They are composed of inner electromagnetic structures
(ideas/concepts) and inner light structures (imagination) and inner
sound structures (emotions).
These are 'behind' everything we perceive. Our minds reach to the
ends of the universe as we know it. (and beyond, but that's another
subject)
Very strong and stable beliefs that we share in common form the
mass reality, those perceptions that we can all more-or-less
agree on. And these cultural beliefs/spells form a kind of
independent consciousness. Our governments at every level are an
expression of this phenomenon.
We are all tuned into this 'mass mind' because we help create it.
I hope that helps.
Sidney Lambe
Seperatus, I have told you what I believe the truth to be.
You can take it or leave it. Arguing will solve nothing.
The nature of reality is not affected by anyone's opinions
or rationalizations.
If you choose to believe that the answers you need are hidden
from you in the un/sub-consconsious then that's the reality you
will experience.
I do not envy you.
[delete]
separatus
> separatus <separatus...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Seperatus, I have told you what I believe the truth to be.
>
> You can take it or leave it. Arguing will solve nothing.
>
> The nature of reality is not affected by anyone's opinions
> or rationalizations.
>
> If you choose to believe that the answers you need are hidden
> from you in the un/sub-consconsious then that's the reality you
> will experience.
>
> I do not envy you.
Agreed. I appreciate the fact that we can disagree without resorting
to namecalling. Let's move on.