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Re: More on lack of mortality risk for the obese/ confirming further the failure of BMI as a measurement of risk?
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Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Feb 6, 2013, 7:58:06 PM2/6/13
to
Susan wrote:
>
> http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/778220?src=wnl_edit_specol
>
> "What they found -- to some people's surprise and to some people's
> horror -- was that having grade 1 obesity, a body mass index between 30
> and 34.9, did not increase mortality. In fact, people who were
> overweight (ie, BMI 25-29.9) had less of a problem than people who were
> considered to be of normal weight (BMI 18.5-24.9). If you had grade 2 or
> grade 3 obesity with a BMI > 35, there was a clear increasing mortality.
> However, this was not so for grade 1 obesity.
>
> What was surprising about this finding in our national campaign about
> obesity is that it seemed to give some people confidence that it's okay
> to be overweight. But that is not exactly what they said. What they said
> is that grade 2 and 3 obesity with a BMI > 35, which is common in the
> United States and elsewhere, was not associated with any significant
> increase in mortality."
This is because the mortality is high enough already with more than a
million cardiovascular deaths annually in the U.S. alone.
BMI is simply not a measurement of the causative http://WDJW.net/VAT
which is acquired by **everyone** who is eating more than the right
amount, which is 32 oz of daily food and is not lost while there is
harmful undernourishment from eating less than 32 oz per day.
The absolutely only **healthy** way to lose the VAT (Visceral Adipose
Tissue) is to http://WDJW.net/Guard (Proverbs 4:23) the heart by
holding to the right amount, which is 32 oz of daily food.
Yes, right amount ( http://WDJW.net/2PD-OMER Approach ) control as
Chris Malcolm, MU, **and** Rod Eastman are doing is much more
sophisticated and smarter:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.diet.low-carb/msg/8d2ef74488074acf?
and
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/522ce5c058224656?
**and**
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/da03131060efa3b5?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/055f2e7cf3c590ee?
Don't be an Ayoob or you will most certainly die a horrible (Mark
9:42) death:
https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9c87c24ea7a7ee20?
Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
diabetics and other heart disease patients:
http://www.11alive.com/news/article/251415/3/Doctor-Touts-Hunger (Luke
6:21a) with all glory to GOD, Who causes us to hunger (Deuteronomy
8:3) when He blesses us right now (Luke 6:21a) thereby removing the
http://WDJW.net/VAT from around the heart
... because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,
Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist (GA Lic#04037)
and Author of the 2PD-OMER Approach:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9ad0c19df5ffc2f7?
>
> http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/778220?src=wnl_edit_specol
>
> "What they found -- to some people's surprise and to some people's
> horror -- was that having grade 1 obesity, a body mass index between 30
> and 34.9, did not increase mortality. In fact, people who were
> overweight (ie, BMI 25-29.9) had less of a problem than people who were
> considered to be of normal weight (BMI 18.5-24.9). If you had grade 2 or
> grade 3 obesity with a BMI > 35, there was a clear increasing mortality.
> However, this was not so for grade 1 obesity.
>
> What was surprising about this finding in our national campaign about
> obesity is that it seemed to give some people confidence that it's okay
> to be overweight. But that is not exactly what they said. What they said
> is that grade 2 and 3 obesity with a BMI > 35, which is common in the
> United States and elsewhere, was not associated with any significant
> increase in mortality."
This is because the mortality is high enough already with more than a
million cardiovascular deaths annually in the U.S. alone.
BMI is simply not a measurement of the causative http://WDJW.net/VAT
which is acquired by **everyone** who is eating more than the right
amount, which is 32 oz of daily food and is not lost while there is
harmful undernourishment from eating less than 32 oz per day.
The absolutely only **healthy** way to lose the VAT (Visceral Adipose
Tissue) is to http://WDJW.net/Guard (Proverbs 4:23) the heart by
holding to the right amount, which is 32 oz of daily food.
Yes, right amount ( http://WDJW.net/2PD-OMER Approach ) control as
Chris Malcolm, MU, **and** Rod Eastman are doing is much more
sophisticated and smarter:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.diet.low-carb/msg/8d2ef74488074acf?
and
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/522ce5c058224656?
**and**
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/da03131060efa3b5?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/055f2e7cf3c590ee?
Don't be an Ayoob or you will most certainly die a horrible (Mark
9:42) death:
https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9c87c24ea7a7ee20?
Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
diabetics and other heart disease patients:
http://www.11alive.com/news/article/251415/3/Doctor-Touts-Hunger (Luke
6:21a) with all glory to GOD, Who causes us to hunger (Deuteronomy
8:3) when He blesses us right now (Luke 6:21a) thereby removing the
http://WDJW.net/VAT from around the heart
... because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,
Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist (GA Lic#04037)
and Author of the 2PD-OMER Approach:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9ad0c19df5ffc2f7?
Ken
Feb 6, 2013, 8:05:03 PM2/6/13
to
http://www.abim.org/services/physver.aspx
Dr. Andrew Ben-hua Chung
Certification Area
Certification Status
Certification History
Internal Medicine
Not Certified
Certified 08/20/1997, Certificate valid through 12/31/2007
Cardiovascular Disease
Not Certified
Certified 11/06/2002, Certificate valid through 12/31/2012
Apparently Quacks don't need certifications
On Feb 6, 5:56 am, DocBGK <blackstu...@gmail.com> wrote:
When the news journalist investigated Andy and found out his clinic
had closed down a long time ago... Andy claimed that he had a secret
hidden clinic that operates strictly on a referral basis.
(A legend in his own mind)
Yet, Andy can not name a single physician who's referred a patient
of his/hers to Andy within the last two years.
(No doubt it's because no legitimate physcian wants to risk his or
her medical license or to be included in a malpractice lawsuit)
Dr. Andrew Ben-hua Chung
Certification Area
Certification Status
Certification History
Internal Medicine
Not Certified
Certified 08/20/1997, Certificate valid through 12/31/2007
Cardiovascular Disease
Not Certified
Certified 11/06/2002, Certificate valid through 12/31/2012
Apparently Quacks don't need certifications
On Feb 6, 5:56 am, DocBGK <blackstu...@gmail.com> wrote:
When the news journalist investigated Andy and found out his clinic
had closed down a long time ago... Andy claimed that he had a secret
hidden clinic that operates strictly on a referral basis.
(A legend in his own mind)
Yet, Andy can not name a single physician who's referred a patient
of his/hers to Andy within the last two years.
(No doubt it's because no legitimate physcian wants to risk his or
her medical license or to be included in a malpractice lawsuit)
Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess
Feb 6, 2013, 10:35:43 PM2/6/13
to
excellent information with highly credible references:
http://www.atheistfrontier.com/resources/miscellaneous/#quackwatch
Below that link there's also a similar one that watches theocracy,
which is also quite well done.
--
Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess
"Logic is the attempt, by humans, to make sense; it isn't a divine
endowment. The same with philosophy, philosophy is the love of wisdom,
we don't say it's the revelation by [some deity.]"
-- Christopher Hitchens
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Feb 7, 2013, 1:20:05 AM2/7/13
to
someone wrote:
>
> You'd probably like the QuackWatch.org web site, it has a lot of
> excellent information with highly credible references:
>
> http://www.atheistfrontier.com/resources/miscellaneous/#quackwatch
http://WDJW.net/HeartDoc Andrew likes the fact that he's not listed
>
> You'd probably like the QuackWatch.org web site, it has a lot of
> excellent information with highly credible references:
>
> http://www.atheistfrontier.com/resources/miscellaneous/#quackwatch
there on http://QuackWatch.com though many have likely asked that he
be listed out of their disbelief that he is vanquishing their terrible
"hunger is starvation" delusion:
Julie Bove wrote:
>
> "I'm starving!"
Source:
https://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.diabetes/msg/e55df55a119465c1?
>
> I don't know why. Had my usual whole wheat toast for breakfast. BG was not
> so good then. 181 before and 258 after. But it had dropped to 121 before
> dinner. Had a brown rice casserole with ground beef and tons of veggies in
> it. BG was 134 after. So slightly higher than it should be but not a
> concern. This was on the lower dose of insulin. Will lower the breakfast
> insulin tomorrow. But...
>
> I am starving!
No you are not.
> Why?
Because starving people are dying from **weeks** of not eating and
dying people can't eat (i.e. are not hungry) much less type and post
on Usenet.
> Could it be that I am now digesting my food?
Being hungry means being able to digest food.
> I just don't know.
You are suffering terribly from the "hunger is starvation" (Genesis
25:32) delusion which scrambles the mind:
"I'm starving! I think I'm gonna die!" -- Julie Bove
Source:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/15d86f761b4881e2?
> Ate a handful of peanuts. Didn't quell the hunger.
That which kills the hunger would be killing you.
If you were to increase the amount of peanuts to 100 lbs, it would
likely kill the hunger and you.
> So I ate a bowl of little dill pickles and a few black olives. Still hungry. Grrr...
Yes, your "hunger is starvation" delusion is what caused you to have
type-2 diabetes from the outset.
Indeed, only the truth (John 14:6) can cure you:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/a81a73f828c35ae2?
Being hungrier really is wonderfully healthier and is not starvation:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/eb477f76c3071d56?
So don't be an Ayoob or you will most certainly die a horrible (Mark
9:42) death:
https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9c87c24ea7a7ee20?
Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
diabetics and other heart disease patients:
http://www.11alive.com/news/article/251415/3/Doctor-Touts-Hunger (Luke
6:21a) with all glory to GOD, Who causes us to hunger (Deuteronomy
8:3) when He blesses us right now (Luke 6:21a) thereby removing the
http://WDJW.net/VAT from around the heart
...because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,
https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9c87c24ea7a7ee20?
Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
diabetics and other heart disease patients:
http://www.11alive.com/news/article/251415/3/Doctor-Touts-Hunger (Luke
6:21a) with all glory to GOD, Who causes us to hunger (Deuteronomy
8:3) when He blesses us right now (Luke 6:21a) thereby removing the
http://WDJW.net/VAT from around the heart
Reg Griswold
Feb 7, 2013, 1:09:39 PM2/7/13
to
"Should a deficiency occur in one or more of these workers, of whom
there are twelve, some abnormal condition arises.
"These abnormal conditions are known by the general term disease, and
according as they manifest themselves in different parts of the body,
they have been designated by various names. But these names totally
fail to express the real trouble.
"Every disease which afflicts the human race is due to a lack of one
or more of these inorganic workers. Every pain or unpleasant sensation
indicates a lack of some inorganic constituent of the body. Health and
strength can be maintained only so long as the system is properly
supplied with these call-salts."
--The Biochemic Handbook
by JB Chapman MD and Edward L Parry MD
Online Biochemic Handbook at http://www.seven-seas.com/library/biochemichandbook.pdf
http://tinyurl.com/3ncdkx8
Reg
there are twelve, some abnormal condition arises.
"These abnormal conditions are known by the general term disease, and
according as they manifest themselves in different parts of the body,
they have been designated by various names. But these names totally
fail to express the real trouble.
"Every disease which afflicts the human race is due to a lack of one
or more of these inorganic workers. Every pain or unpleasant sensation
indicates a lack of some inorganic constituent of the body. Health and
strength can be maintained only so long as the system is properly
supplied with these call-salts."
--The Biochemic Handbook
by JB Chapman MD and Edward L Parry MD
Online Biochemic Handbook at http://www.seven-seas.com/library/biochemichandbook.pdf
http://tinyurl.com/3ncdkx8
Reg
Chopchinski
Feb 7, 2013, 2:47:07 PM2/7/13
to
On 2/7/2013 1:09 PM, Reg Griswold aka carole hubbard wrote:
> Online Biochemic Handbook at
> http://www.seven-seas.com/library/biochemichandbook.pdf
> http://tinyurl.com/3ncdkx8
Cell salts, like homeopathic remedies, are no better than placebo.
> Online Biochemic Handbook at
> http://www.seven-seas.com/library/biochemichandbook.pdf
> http://tinyurl.com/3ncdkx8
> The Biochemic Handbook by JB Chapman MD and Edward L Parry MD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._B._Chapman
Edward L. Parry is a Dermatologist and lists no affinity for cell salts.
http://www.planoderm.com/index.php?id=29#c85
Neither Chapman nor Parry inspire great confidence in carole's quack
remedies.
carole hubbard <-- reg griswold <-- charlatan
Bob Officer
Feb 7, 2013, 10:09:55 PM2/7/13
to
On Thu, 07 Feb 2013 14:47:07 -0500, in misc.health.alternative,
Chopchinski <ch...@chinski.biz> wrote:
>On 2/7/2013 1:09 PM, Reg Griswold aka carole hubbard wrote:
>
>> Online Biochemic Handbook at
>> http://www.seven-seas.com/library/biochemichandbook.pdf
>> http://tinyurl.com/3ncdkx8
>
>Cell salts, like homeopathic remedies, are no better than placebo.
>
>> The Biochemic Handbook by JB Chapman MD and Edward L Parry MD
>
>JB Chapman was a Protestant Church leader.
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._B._Chapman
Chapman's degree was issued by himself from a "college he founded".
Chopchinski <ch...@chinski.biz> wrote:
>On 2/7/2013 1:09 PM, Reg Griswold aka carole hubbard wrote:
>
>> Online Biochemic Handbook at
>> http://www.seven-seas.com/library/biochemichandbook.pdf
>> http://tinyurl.com/3ncdkx8
>
>Cell salts, like homeopathic remedies, are no better than placebo.
>
>> The Biochemic Handbook by JB Chapman MD and Edward L Parry MD
>
>JB Chapman was a Protestant Church leader.
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._B._Chapman
The title is self assumed and fraudulent.
>
>Edward L. Parry is a Dermatologist and lists no affinity for cell salts.
>http://www.planoderm.com/index.php?id=29#c85
I not sure you have the right Parry.
>Edward L. Parry is a Dermatologist and lists no affinity for cell salts.
>http://www.planoderm.com/index.php?id=29#c85
>Neither Chapman nor Parry inspire great confidence in carole's quack
>remedies.
because they said so.
>
>carole hubbard <-- reg griswold <-- charlatan
--
Bob Officer
"Whoops .... now where did I put that other braincell?
It make it very hard to work things out.
Oh, I'll check up my arse ...get back to ya."
carole hubbard in Message-ID: <f3b680d9-da69-4c7e...@y5g2000pbi.googlegroups.com>
Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess
Feb 7, 2013, 11:35:07 PM2/7/13
to
On Wed, 6 Feb 2013 22:20:05 -0800 (PST)
"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <disc...@T3WiJ.com> wrote:
> someone wrote:
>
> > You'd probably like the QuackWatch.org web site, it has a lot of
> > excellent information with highly credible references:
> >
> > http://www.atheistfrontier.com/resources/miscellaneous/#quackwatch
>
> http://WDJW.net/HeartDoc Andrew likes the fact that he's not listed
> there on http://QuackWatch.com though many have likely asked that he
> be listed out of their disbelief that he is vanquishing their terrible
> "hunger is starvation" delusion:
[snip]
"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <disc...@T3WiJ.com> wrote:
> someone wrote:
>
> > You'd probably like the QuackWatch.org web site, it has a lot of
> > excellent information with highly credible references:
> >
> > http://www.atheistfrontier.com/resources/miscellaneous/#quackwatch
>
> http://WDJW.net/HeartDoc Andrew likes the fact that he's not listed
> there on http://QuackWatch.com though many have likely asked that he
> be listed out of their disbelief that he is vanquishing their terrible
> "hunger is starvation" delusion:
I suspect that the reason you're not listed on QuackWatch.org is that
you haven't actually killed anyone with your bible-thumping medical
quackery yet.
> You are suffering terribly from the "hunger is starvation" (Genesis
> 25:32) delusion which scrambles the mind:
>
> "I'm starving! I think I'm gonna die!" -- Julie Bove
It's not a delusion, it's a survival trait in "early prevention" mode.
Of course, if the human body is undernourished, this can have a subtle,
yet also increasing, negative impact on a one's ability to concentrate
as the neurological system increasingly distracts with more "need food
as soon as possible" (a.k.a., "you're hungry") messages.
--
Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess
-- Bill Maher (humourous comment about the Thanksgiving holiday)
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Feb 8, 2013, 1:19:27 AM2/8/13
to
Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess wrote:
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
The reason is simply that those of us who have been given MD degrees
are Medical Doctors, who are by definition not quacks. The conferment
of an MD degree is for life.
Quacks are those who are misrepresenting themselves as those of us who
have MD degrees when in fact they've never received a **medical**
doctorate.
Therefore, those of you who have been calling http://WDJW.net/HeartDoc
Andrew a quack are guilty of libel.
"To meet the Supreme Court's definition of libel involving a public
figure, a quotation must not only be made up or materially altered. It
must also defame the person quoted, and damage his or her reputation
or livelihood …" -- Jane Gross, New York Times, 5 June 1993
Source:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/libel
Now back to vanquishing the "hunger is starvation" (Genesis 25:32)
delusion...
Julie Bove wrote:
>
> "I'm starving!"
Source:
https://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.diabetes/msg/e55df55a119465c1?
>
> I don't know why. Had my usual whole wheat toast for breakfast. BG was not
> so good then. 181 before and 258 after. But it had dropped to 121 before
> dinner. Had a brown rice casserole with ground beef and tons of veggies in
> it. BG was 134 after. So slightly higher than it should be but not a
> concern. This was on the lower dose of insulin. Will lower the breakfast
> insulin tomorrow. But...
>
> I am starving!
No you are not.
> Why?
Because starving people are dying from **weeks** of not eating and
dying people can't eat (i.e. are not hungry) much less type and post
on Usenet.
> Could it be that I am now digesting my food?
Being hungry means being able to digest food.
> I just don't know.
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess wrote:
> >
> > > You'd probably like the QuackWatch.org web site, it has a lot of
> > > excellent information with highly credible references:
> > >
> > > http://www.atheistfrontier.com/resources/miscellaneous/#quackwatch
> >
> > http://WDJW.net/HeartDoc Andrew likes the fact that he's not listed
> > there on http://QuackWatch.com though many have likely asked that he
> > be listed out of their disbelief that he is vanquishing their terrible
> > "hunger is starvation" delusion:
> [snip]
>
> I suspect that the reason you're not listed on QuackWatch.org is that
> you haven't actually killed anyone with your bible-thumping medical
> quackery yet.
No.
> >
> > > You'd probably like the QuackWatch.org web site, it has a lot of
> > > excellent information with highly credible references:
> > >
> > > http://www.atheistfrontier.com/resources/miscellaneous/#quackwatch
> >
> > http://WDJW.net/HeartDoc Andrew likes the fact that he's not listed
> > there on http://QuackWatch.com though many have likely asked that he
> > be listed out of their disbelief that he is vanquishing their terrible
> > "hunger is starvation" delusion:
> [snip]
>
> I suspect that the reason you're not listed on QuackWatch.org is that
> you haven't actually killed anyone with your bible-thumping medical
> quackery yet.
The reason is simply that those of us who have been given MD degrees
are Medical Doctors, who are by definition not quacks. The conferment
of an MD degree is for life.
Quacks are those who are misrepresenting themselves as those of us who
have MD degrees when in fact they've never received a **medical**
doctorate.
Therefore, those of you who have been calling http://WDJW.net/HeartDoc
Andrew a quack are guilty of libel.
"To meet the Supreme Court's definition of libel involving a public
figure, a quotation must not only be made up or materially altered. It
must also defame the person quoted, and damage his or her reputation
or livelihood …" -- Jane Gross, New York Times, 5 June 1993
Source:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/libel
Now back to vanquishing the "hunger is starvation" (Genesis 25:32)
delusion...
Julie Bove wrote:
>
> "I'm starving!"
Source:
https://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.diabetes/msg/e55df55a119465c1?
>
> I don't know why. Had my usual whole wheat toast for breakfast. BG was not
> so good then. 181 before and 258 after. But it had dropped to 121 before
> dinner. Had a brown rice casserole with ground beef and tons of veggies in
> it. BG was 134 after. So slightly higher than it should be but not a
> concern. This was on the lower dose of insulin. Will lower the breakfast
> insulin tomorrow. But...
>
> I am starving!
No you are not.
> Why?
Because starving people are dying from **weeks** of not eating and
dying people can't eat (i.e. are not hungry) much less type and post
on Usenet.
> Could it be that I am now digesting my food?
Being hungry means being able to digest food.
> I just don't know.
You are suffering terribly from the "hunger is starvation" (Genesis
25:32) delusion which scrambles the mind:
"I'm starving! I think I'm gonna die!" -- Julie Bove
25:32) delusion which scrambles the mind:
"I'm starving! I think I'm gonna die!" -- Julie Bove
Fiscal Cliff
Feb 8, 2013, 4:33:47 AM2/8/13
to
On 2/7/2013 10:09 PM, Bob Officer wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Feb 2013 14:47:07 -0500, in misc.health.alternative,
> Chopchinski <ch...@chinski.biz> wrote:
>
>> On 2/7/2013 1:09 PM, Reg Griswold aka carole hubbard wrote:
>>
>>> Online Biochemic Handbook at
>>> http://www.seven-seas.com/library/biochemichandbook.pdf
>>> http://tinyurl.com/3ncdkx8
>>
>> Cell salts, like homeopathic remedies, are no better than placebo.
>>
>>> The Biochemic Handbook by JB Chapman MD and Edward L Parry MD
>>
>> JB Chapman was a Protestant Church leader.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._B._Chapman
>
> Chapman's degree was issued by himself from a "college he founded".
> The title is self assumed and fraudulent.
>>
>> Edward L. Parry is a Dermatologist and lists no affinity for cell salts.
>> http://www.planoderm.com/index.php?id=29#c85
>
> I not sure you have the right Parry.
No doubt.
> On Thu, 07 Feb 2013 14:47:07 -0500, in misc.health.alternative,
> Chopchinski <ch...@chinski.biz> wrote:
>
>> On 2/7/2013 1:09 PM, Reg Griswold aka carole hubbard wrote:
>>
>>> Online Biochemic Handbook at
>>> http://www.seven-seas.com/library/biochemichandbook.pdf
>>> http://tinyurl.com/3ncdkx8
>>
>> Cell salts, like homeopathic remedies, are no better than placebo.
>>
>>> The Biochemic Handbook by JB Chapman MD and Edward L Parry MD
>>
>> JB Chapman was a Protestant Church leader.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._B._Chapman
>
> Chapman's degree was issued by himself from a "college he founded".
> The title is self assumed and fraudulent.
>>
>> Edward L. Parry is a Dermatologist and lists no affinity for cell salts.
>> http://www.planoderm.com/index.php?id=29#c85
>
> I not sure you have the right Parry.
But since anyone (other than carole) purportedly posting an
evidence-based publication would also post the qualifications of the
authors, I thought I'd take a shot at it.
Of course, why should carole bother with such a detail.
Only those as stupid as she is, or worse, would be impressed with the
quack pamphlet.
>> Neither Chapman nor Parry inspire great confidence in carole's
>> quack remedies.
>
> The both wrote from a post hoc fallacy point of view. It is true
> because they said so.
>> carole hubbard <-- reg griswold <-- charlatan
>
> Spammer and net abuser is what she is.
No better than a liar, fraud, or cheat.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Feb 8, 2013, 5:29:52 AM2/8/13
to
GysdeJongh wrote:
>
> Diabet Med. 2012 Oct 17. doi: 10.1111/dme.12039.
> The 2012 Banting Lecture Reversing the twin cycles of Type 2 diabetes.
>
> It has become widely accepted that type 2 diabetes is inevitably life-long,
> with irreversible and progressive beta cell damage. However, the restoration
> of normal glucose metabolism within days after bariatric surgery in the
> majority of people with type 2 diabetes disproves this concept. There is now
> no doubt that this reversal of diabetes depends upon the sudden and profound
> decrease in food intake, and does not relate to any direct surgical effect.
> The Counterpoint study demonstrated that normal glucose levels and normal
> beta cell function could be restored by a very low calorie diet alone. Novel
> magnetic resonance methods were applied to measure intra-organ fat. The
> results showed two different time courses: a) resolution of hepatic insulin
> sensitivity within days along with a rapid fall in liver fat and
> normalisation of fasting glucose levels; and b) return of normal beta cell
> insulin secretion over weeks in step with a fall in pancreas fat. Now that
> it has been possible to observe the pathophysiological events during
> reversal of type 2 diabetes, the reverse time course of events which
> determine the onset of the condition can be identified. The twin cycle
> hypothesis postulates that chronic calorie excess leads to accumulation of
> liver fat with eventual spill over into the pancreas. These self-reinforcing
> cycles between liver and pancreas eventually cause metabolic inhibition of
> insulin secretion after meals and onset of hyperglycaemia. It is now clear
> that Type 2 diabetes is a reversible condition of intra-organ fat excess to
> which some people are more susceptible than others.
> PMID: 23075228
Yes, stopping the causative overeating without harmful
undernourishment by holding to the right amount, which is 32 oz of
daily food, is the absolutely only **healthy** way to remove the
"intra-organ fat excess" ( http://WDJW.net/VAT ) that happens with
overeating:
https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/48e684b2a336961e?
Yes, right amount ( http://WDJW.net/2PD-OMER Approach ) control as
Chris Malcolm, MU, **and** Rod Eastman are doing is much more
sophisticated and smarter:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.diet.low-carb/msg/8d2ef74488074acf?
and
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/522ce5c058224656?
**and**
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/da03131060efa3b5?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/055f2e7cf3c590ee?
So don't be an Ayoob or you will most certainly die a horrible (Mark
>
> Diabet Med. 2012 Oct 17. doi: 10.1111/dme.12039.
> The 2012 Banting Lecture Reversing the twin cycles of Type 2 diabetes.
>
> It has become widely accepted that type 2 diabetes is inevitably life-long,
> with irreversible and progressive beta cell damage. However, the restoration
> of normal glucose metabolism within days after bariatric surgery in the
> majority of people with type 2 diabetes disproves this concept. There is now
> no doubt that this reversal of diabetes depends upon the sudden and profound
> decrease in food intake, and does not relate to any direct surgical effect.
> The Counterpoint study demonstrated that normal glucose levels and normal
> beta cell function could be restored by a very low calorie diet alone. Novel
> magnetic resonance methods were applied to measure intra-organ fat. The
> results showed two different time courses: a) resolution of hepatic insulin
> sensitivity within days along with a rapid fall in liver fat and
> normalisation of fasting glucose levels; and b) return of normal beta cell
> insulin secretion over weeks in step with a fall in pancreas fat. Now that
> it has been possible to observe the pathophysiological events during
> reversal of type 2 diabetes, the reverse time course of events which
> determine the onset of the condition can be identified. The twin cycle
> hypothesis postulates that chronic calorie excess leads to accumulation of
> liver fat with eventual spill over into the pancreas. These self-reinforcing
> cycles between liver and pancreas eventually cause metabolic inhibition of
> insulin secretion after meals and onset of hyperglycaemia. It is now clear
> that Type 2 diabetes is a reversible condition of intra-organ fat excess to
> which some people are more susceptible than others.
> PMID: 23075228
Yes, stopping the causative overeating without harmful
undernourishment by holding to the right amount, which is 32 oz of
daily food, is the absolutely only **healthy** way to remove the
"intra-organ fat excess" ( http://WDJW.net/VAT ) that happens with
overeating:
https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/48e684b2a336961e?
Yes, right amount ( http://WDJW.net/2PD-OMER Approach ) control as
Chris Malcolm, MU, **and** Rod Eastman are doing is much more
sophisticated and smarter:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.diet.low-carb/msg/8d2ef74488074acf?
and
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/522ce5c058224656?
**and**
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/da03131060efa3b5?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/055f2e7cf3c590ee?
9:42) death:
https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9c87c24ea7a7ee20?
Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
diabetics and other heart disease patients:
http://www.11alive.com/news/article/251415/3/Doctor-Touts-Hunger (Luke
6:21a) with all glory to GOD, Who causes us to hunger (Deuteronomy
8:3) when He blesses us right now (Luke 6:21a) thereby removing the
http://WDJW.net/VAT
https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9c87c24ea7a7ee20?
Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
diabetics and other heart disease patients:
http://www.11alive.com/news/article/251415/3/Doctor-Touts-Hunger (Luke
6:21a) with all glory to GOD, Who causes us to hunger (Deuteronomy
8:3) when He blesses us right now (Luke 6:21a) thereby removing the
http://WDJW.net/VAT
... because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,
Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist (GA Lic#04037)
and Author of the 2PD-OMER Approach:
https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/e66adf59151b12b6?
Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist (GA Lic#04037)
and Author of the 2PD-OMER Approach:
DocBGK
Feb 8, 2013, 5:35:04 AM2/8/13
to
On Feb 7, 8:35 pm, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess"
> > there onhttp://QuackWatch.comthough many have likely asked that he
the following results:
"DR ANDREW CHUNG AND EBONY BERRY ACCUSED OF STARVING DAUGHTER"
http://lapanchinadimariella.forumfree.it/?t=62125479
"Ebony Berry, Mom who starved teen daughter Markea to death, linked to
'hunger' cure Doc (Video)"
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ebony-berry-mom-starved-teen-daughter-markea-death-linked-hunger-cure-doc-video-article-1.1103172
"Update: Dr. Andrew Chung admits he spoke with starved teen's ..."
http://www.atoast2wealth.com/2012/06/27/update-dr-andrew-chung-admits-he-spoke-with-starved-teens-mom-ebony-berry/
"Update: Dr. Andrew Chung admits he spoke with starved teen's mom ..."
http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/TJE0OPIR81HG0GU23
"Being Hungry is Wonderful": Mother Who Allegedly Starved Daughter as
Part of a “Hunger Cult”
http://www.yourblackworld.net/2012/06/black-news/woman-starves-her-daughter-to-death-as-part-of-a-cult/#
"Dr Andrew Chung advocates 'wonderfully hungry' and is friends with
Ebony Berry, accused of starving daughter"
http://entertainment.topnewstoday.org/music/article/2644930/
"The doctor behind the ‘hunger cult’ that obsessed a mother who
‘starved her 16-year-old daughter to death"
http://investmentwatchblog.com/the-doctor-behind-the-hunger-cult-that-obsessed-a-mother-who-starved-her-16-year-old-daughter-to-death/#.T_HazM0pCh0
<godd...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Feb 2013 22:20:05 -0800 (PST)
> "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <disci...@T3WiJ.com> wrote:> someone wrote:
>
> > > You'd probably like the QuackWatch.org web site, it has a lot of
> > > excellent information with highly credible references:
>
> > >http://www.atheistfrontier.com/resources/miscellaneous/#quackwatch
>
> >http://WDJW.net/HeartDocAndrew likes the fact that he's not listed
> On Wed, 6 Feb 2013 22:20:05 -0800 (PST)
> "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <disci...@T3WiJ.com> wrote:> someone wrote:
>
> > > You'd probably like the QuackWatch.org web site, it has a lot of
> > > excellent information with highly credible references:
>
> > >http://www.atheistfrontier.com/resources/miscellaneous/#quackwatch
>
> > there onhttp://QuackWatch.comthough many have likely asked that he
> > be listed out of their disbelief that he is vanquishing their terrible
> > "hunger is starvation" delusion:
>
> [snip]
>
> I suspect that the reason you're not listed on QuackWatch.org is that
> you haven't actually killed anyone with your bible-thumping medical
> quackery yet.
A Google search of "Andrew Chung and Markea Blakely-Berry" produced
> > "hunger is starvation" delusion:
>
> [snip]
>
> I suspect that the reason you're not listed on QuackWatch.org is that
> you haven't actually killed anyone with your bible-thumping medical
> quackery yet.
the following results:
"DR ANDREW CHUNG AND EBONY BERRY ACCUSED OF STARVING DAUGHTER"
http://lapanchinadimariella.forumfree.it/?t=62125479
"Ebony Berry, Mom who starved teen daughter Markea to death, linked to
'hunger' cure Doc (Video)"
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ebony-berry-mom-starved-teen-daughter-markea-death-linked-hunger-cure-doc-video-article-1.1103172
"Update: Dr. Andrew Chung admits he spoke with starved teen's ..."
http://www.atoast2wealth.com/2012/06/27/update-dr-andrew-chung-admits-he-spoke-with-starved-teens-mom-ebony-berry/
"Update: Dr. Andrew Chung admits he spoke with starved teen's mom ..."
http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/TJE0OPIR81HG0GU23
"Being Hungry is Wonderful": Mother Who Allegedly Starved Daughter as
Part of a “Hunger Cult”
http://www.yourblackworld.net/2012/06/black-news/woman-starves-her-daughter-to-death-as-part-of-a-cult/#
"Dr Andrew Chung advocates 'wonderfully hungry' and is friends with
Ebony Berry, accused of starving daughter"
http://entertainment.topnewstoday.org/music/article/2644930/
"The doctor behind the ‘hunger cult’ that obsessed a mother who
‘starved her 16-year-old daughter to death"
http://investmentwatchblog.com/the-doctor-behind-the-hunger-cult-that-obsessed-a-mother-who-starved-her-16-year-old-daughter-to-death/#.T_HazM0pCh0
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Feb 8, 2013, 7:30:59 AM2/8/13
to
"It would be far more reasonable to state what is plainly the
Scriptural position - that there is one Book of Life, belonging to the
Lamb, and that it is indeed possible to have one's name blotted out of
it."
Source:
http://bereans.com/bible_studies/the_book_of_life_one_book_o.html
Indeed, behold ...
one whose name's been blotted(Mt25:41&Ps69:28) from His Book(Rev20:15)
desperately insists:
> Mary Tyler Moore has always had diabetes
Lie.
No one is born with diabetes.
Source:
https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/fcad4bb2d99bae4e?
The youngest type-2 diabetic on record is 5 years old:
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/8111.php
Moreover, Mary Tyler Moore, acquired her diabetes at age 33 as a
consequence of overconsuming alcohol (liquid food) which does cause
liver visceral adipose tissue (VAT):
"Moore, 74, was diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes, formerly called
juvenile diabetes, when (she) was 33..."
Source:
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/mary-tyler-moore-undergoes-brain-surgery-meningioma-tumor/story?id=13589156
Truth is simply reality, which the accursed (Galatians 1:8-9) like you
and satan really hate.
> But remember that Satan also quoted Scripture (Psalm 91:11) in Matthew
> 4:5-6
This physician ( http://WDJW.net/Healer ) remembers Jesus Christ of
Nazareth pointing out that satan cannot call Him LORD (Matthew 4:7)
for if he could, he would have prefaced with "LORD, if You are the Son
of GOD ..." in Matthew 4:6.
> and that one of his servants can just as easily quote 1
> Corinthians 12:3b.
Actually, you cannot just as your master (satan) cannot for "no one
can say 'Jesus is LORD' except by the Holy Spirit." (1 Corinthians
12:3).
May GOD continue to ever so severely curse (Galatians 1:8-9) you and
all around you to the Nth generation, in the name of Jesus Christ of
Nazareth. Amen.
Bottom line concerning you:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/be51c482109ff735?
"But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other
than the one we preached to you, let them be under GOD’s curse! As we
have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you
a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under GOD’s
curse!" (Galatians 1:8-9)
"Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared
for the devil and his angels" -- Jesus Christ of Nazareth (Matthew
25:41)
And clearly you are accursed:
https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/e65bc98b85f573f3?
one whose name's been blotted(Mt25:41&Ps69:28) from His Book(Rev20:15)
despairingly asked:
>Andy, what have you been doing for income since your clinic closed
>down and your cardiology certification expired?
This actively practicing physician ( http://WDJW.net/HeartDoc )
continues to be very well-compensated as a cardiologist b/c he is
known by all to be one of a chosen few to have the power of the Holy
Spirit ( http://WDJW.net/HolySpirit ) to heal/cure/reverse (Mark
16:18) heart disease including type-2 diabetes, which is a CAD
equivalent, while giving all the glory to GOD as seen on network TV:
Behold as http://WDJW.net/HeartDoc Andrew gives all the glory to GOD
as the http://www.11alive.com/news/article/251415/3/Doctor-Touts-Hunger
(Luke 6:21a) with all glory to GOD, Who causes (Deuteronomy 8:3) him
to hunger so that he can thrive as he enjoys his meals more than ever:
http://WDJW.net/LausDeo :-)
Bottom line concerning http://WDJW.net/HeartDoc Andrew being perfect
(Matthew 5:48):
GOD-sanctification (1 Thessalonians 5:23) is infinitely greater than
board-certification for He makes the latter eternal (1 Corinthians
2:9) without need for eternal fee payments to ABIM :-)
Source:
https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/e484a76eae61abef?
Scriptural position - that there is one Book of Life, belonging to the
Lamb, and that it is indeed possible to have one's name blotted out of
it."
Source:
http://bereans.com/bible_studies/the_book_of_life_one_book_o.html
Indeed, behold ...
one whose name's been blotted(Mt25:41&Ps69:28) from His Book(Rev20:15)
desperately insists:
> Mary Tyler Moore has always had diabetes
Lie.
No one is born with diabetes.
Source:
https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/fcad4bb2d99bae4e?
The youngest type-2 diabetic on record is 5 years old:
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/8111.php
Moreover, Mary Tyler Moore, acquired her diabetes at age 33 as a
consequence of overconsuming alcohol (liquid food) which does cause
liver visceral adipose tissue (VAT):
"Moore, 74, was diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes, formerly called
juvenile diabetes, when (she) was 33..."
Source:
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/mary-tyler-moore-undergoes-brain-surgery-meningioma-tumor/story?id=13589156
Truth is simply reality, which the accursed (Galatians 1:8-9) like you
and satan really hate.
> But remember that Satan also quoted Scripture (Psalm 91:11) in Matthew
> 4:5-6
This physician ( http://WDJW.net/Healer ) remembers Jesus Christ of
Nazareth pointing out that satan cannot call Him LORD (Matthew 4:7)
for if he could, he would have prefaced with "LORD, if You are the Son
of GOD ..." in Matthew 4:6.
> and that one of his servants can just as easily quote 1
> Corinthians 12:3b.
Actually, you cannot just as your master (satan) cannot for "no one
can say 'Jesus is LORD' except by the Holy Spirit." (1 Corinthians
12:3).
May GOD continue to ever so severely curse (Galatians 1:8-9) you and
all around you to the Nth generation, in the name of Jesus Christ of
Nazareth. Amen.
Bottom line concerning you:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/be51c482109ff735?
"But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other
than the one we preached to you, let them be under GOD’s curse! As we
have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you
a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under GOD’s
curse!" (Galatians 1:8-9)
"Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared
for the devil and his angels" -- Jesus Christ of Nazareth (Matthew
25:41)
And clearly you are accursed:
https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/e65bc98b85f573f3?
one whose name's been blotted(Mt25:41&Ps69:28) from His Book(Rev20:15)
despairingly asked:
>Andy, what have you been doing for income since your clinic closed
>down and your cardiology certification expired?
This actively practicing physician ( http://WDJW.net/HeartDoc )
continues to be very well-compensated as a cardiologist b/c he is
known by all to be one of a chosen few to have the power of the Holy
Spirit ( http://WDJW.net/HolySpirit ) to heal/cure/reverse (Mark
16:18) heart disease including type-2 diabetes, which is a CAD
equivalent, while giving all the glory to GOD as seen on network TV:
Behold as http://WDJW.net/HeartDoc Andrew gives all the glory to GOD
as the http://www.11alive.com/news/article/251415/3/Doctor-Touts-Hunger
(Luke 6:21a) with all glory to GOD, Who causes (Deuteronomy 8:3) him
to hunger so that he can thrive as he enjoys his meals more than ever:
http://WDJW.net/LausDeo :-)
Bottom line concerning http://WDJW.net/HeartDoc Andrew being perfect
(Matthew 5:48):
GOD-sanctification (1 Thessalonians 5:23) is infinitely greater than
board-certification for He makes the latter eternal (1 Corinthians
2:9) without need for eternal fee payments to ABIM :-)
Source:
https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/e484a76eae61abef?
Bob Officer
Feb 8, 2013, 11:34:24 AM2/8/13
to
theology, not medicine, and it was from the very same "religious
college" operated by Chapman.
>>> Neither Chapman nor Parry inspire great confidence in carole's
>>> quack remedies.
>>
>> The both wrote from a post hoc fallacy point of view. It is true
>> because they said so.
>
>That's carole's primary method of claiming her nonsense is valid.
campaign? Does the noise being generated make any group more valid,
or is she just pissing more people off in other newsgroups?
>>> carole hubbard <-- reg griswold <-- charlatan
>>
>> Spammer and net abuser is what she is.
>
>she's a purveyor of disinformation via the internet.
>No better than a liar, fraud, or cheat.
Chopchinski
Feb 8, 2013, 12:48:28 PM2/8/13
to
Chapman went to school.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._B._Chapman
What's bizarre is that carole cites The Biochemic Handbook by Chapman &
Parry, both of whom are shown as having MD designated after their names.
https://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/da83a8f8d5628b24?hl=en
But then, the online version of the pamphlet has no mention of either
Chapman or Parry.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=D&q=http://www.seven-seas.com/library/biochemichandbook.pdf&usg=AFQjCNH-I1wBOJj4QRnQzSoBQRnR04L44w
If that detail doesn't portend quackery, then I don't know what does.
>>>> Neither Chapman nor Parry inspire great confidence in carole's
>>>> quack remedies.
>>>
>>> The both wrote from a post hoc fallacy point of view. It is true
>>> because they said so.
>>
>> That's carole's primary method of claiming her nonsense is valid.
>
> That's is correct. I wonder how she is doing on her anti chung
> campaign? Does the noise being generated make any group more valid,
> or is she just pissing more people off in other newsgroups?
to be both disrupting the ng and pissing people off.
I have a hunch she's going to brew some trouble for herself.
Bob Officer
Feb 8, 2013, 1:16:13 PM2/8/13
to
On Fri, 08 Feb 2013 12:48:28 -0500, in misc.health.alternative,
It has to do with the era how title's were used. At one time anyone
could self label themselves doctor and get by with it. Times change
and the consume is protected from fakes and frauds. Do you that
people will protest against fraud protection laws if the frauds use a
religious belief to take their money. One of the most abused words is
traditional belief. In Australia, they made 'traditional beliefs'
**protected** by law, Even if the traditional belief is less than
15-20 years old. (one generation). How silly can one get?
>>>>> Neither Chapman nor Parry inspire great confidence in carole's
>>>>> quack remedies.
>>>>
>>>> The both wrote from a post hoc fallacy point of view. It is true
>>>> because they said so.
>>>
>>> That's carole's primary method of claiming her nonsense is valid.
>>
>> That's is correct. I wonder how she is doing on her anti chung
>> campaign? Does the noise being generated make any group more valid,
>> or is she just pissing more people off in other newsgroups?
>
> From the thread of the earlier post I cited from alt. atheism, she seems
>to be both disrupting the ng and pissing people off.
>
>I have a hunch she's going to brew some trouble for herself.
cross posting is a great tool. It can be used to help or hurt a
newsgroup. carole goes on a crossposting expedition every few month
looking for recruits.
She fails most all of the time, but failure is what carole does best.
>
>>>>> carole hubbard <-- reg griswold <-- charlatan
>>>>
>>>> Spammer and net abuser is what she is.
>>>
>>> she's a purveyor of disinformation via the internet.
>>> No better than a liar, fraud, or cheat.
>>
>> Correct
>
could self label themselves doctor and get by with it. Times change
and the consume is protected from fakes and frauds. Do you that
people will protest against fraud protection laws if the frauds use a
religious belief to take their money. One of the most abused words is
traditional belief. In Australia, they made 'traditional beliefs'
**protected** by law, Even if the traditional belief is less than
15-20 years old. (one generation). How silly can one get?
>>>>> Neither Chapman nor Parry inspire great confidence in carole's
>>>>> quack remedies.
>>>>
>>>> The both wrote from a post hoc fallacy point of view. It is true
>>>> because they said so.
>>>
>>> That's carole's primary method of claiming her nonsense is valid.
>>
>> That's is correct. I wonder how she is doing on her anti chung
>> campaign? Does the noise being generated make any group more valid,
>> or is she just pissing more people off in other newsgroups?
>
> From the thread of the earlier post I cited from alt. atheism, she seems
>to be both disrupting the ng and pissing people off.
>
>I have a hunch she's going to brew some trouble for herself.
newsgroup. carole goes on a crossposting expedition every few month
looking for recruits.
She fails most all of the time, but failure is what carole does best.
>
>>>>> carole hubbard <-- reg griswold <-- charlatan
>>>>
>>>> Spammer and net abuser is what she is.
>>>
>>> she's a purveyor of disinformation via the internet.
>>> No better than a liar, fraud, or cheat.
>>
>> Correct
>
Chopchinski
Feb 8, 2013, 1:54:18 PM2/8/13
to
Failure is what carole does best.
LOL!
Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess
Feb 8, 2013, 5:53:05 PM2/8/13
to
On Thu, 7 Feb 2013 22:19:27 -0800 (PST)
"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <lo...@thetruth.com> wrote:
> Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess wrote:
> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > > Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess wrote:
> > >
> > > > You'd probably like the QuackWatch.org web site, it has a lot of
> > > > excellent information with highly credible references:
> > > >
> > > > http://www.atheistfrontier.com/resources/miscellaneous/#quackwatch
> > >
> > > http://WDJW.net/HeartDoc Andrew likes the fact that he's not
> > > listed there on http://QuackWatch.com though many have likely
> > > asked that he be listed out of their disbelief that he is
> > > vanquishing their terrible "hunger is starvation" delusion:
> > [snip]
> >
> > I suspect that the reason you're not listed on QuackWatch.org is
> > that you haven't actually killed anyone with your bible-thumping
> > medical quackery yet.
>
> No.
>
> The reason is simply that those of us who have been given MD degrees
> are Medical Doctors, who are by definition not quacks. The conferment
> of an MD degree is for life.
I don't accept your claim because your logic is flawed due to your
"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <lo...@thetruth.com> wrote:
> Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess wrote:
> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > > Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess wrote:
> > >
> > > > You'd probably like the QuackWatch.org web site, it has a lot of
> > > > excellent information with highly credible references:
> > > >
> > > > http://www.atheistfrontier.com/resources/miscellaneous/#quackwatch
> > >
> > > http://WDJW.net/HeartDoc Andrew likes the fact that he's not
> > > listed there on http://QuackWatch.com though many have likely
> > > asked that he be listed out of their disbelief that he is
> > > vanquishing their terrible "hunger is starvation" delusion:
> > [snip]
> >
> > I suspect that the reason you're not listed on QuackWatch.org is
> > that you haven't actually killed anyone with your bible-thumping
> > medical quackery yet.
>
> No.
>
> The reason is simply that those of us who have been given MD degrees
> are Medical Doctors, who are by definition not quacks. The conferment
> of an MD degree is for life.
assumption that all MDs are qualified (which also carries an ethical
implication), but this is trivially refuted by the fact that some MDs
have had their licenses revoked for failing to maintain the standards;
hence it is also logical and reasonable to assume that there may still
be some MDs practicing improperly and/or without regard for ethics.
> Quacks are those who are misrepresenting themselves as those of us who
> have MD degrees when in fact they've never received a **medical**
> doctorate.
themselves may also factually be classified as "quacks."
> Therefore, those of you who have been calling http://WDJW.net/HeartDoc
> Andrew a quack are guilty of libel.
makes it obvious that quackery is involved because that's not a
scientific statement -- medicine is, after all, highly dependent on
scientific methodology:
1. a qualified MD should be able to determine if "Jesus Christ" is
alive, and he's not (in fact, there's question about whether this
character even existed at all)
2. use of the word "divine" means that a deity is the source, which is
based on faith in the absence of scientific methodology
3. claims that cannot be verified can safely be dismissed as untrue,
but if these claims are used as supporting evidence of something being
true then they enter into the realm of deception
Regarding your claim of libel, guilt may only be determined by an
official court of law during an official proceeding because the value
of "innocent until proven guilty" is paramount to justice; your claim
of guilt attempts to circumvent justice, and it is on these grounds
that I do not accept it nor need not bother refuting you beyond also
pointing out that you have attempted to refute the challenge posed to
you by using a diversion tactic fallacy in labelling it as libel -- if
you could refute the challenge, then dependence on that fallacy wouldn't
be neccessary.
> "To meet the Supreme Court's definition of libel involving a public
> figure, a quotation must not only be made up or materially altered. It
> must also defame the person quoted, and damage his or her reputation
> or livelihood …" -- Jane Gross, New York Times, 5 June 1993
called to the bench? Does she have qualifications in the area of law?
[snip - various biblical claims about medical issues]
--
Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess
"Admiration is the daughter of ignorance."
-- Benjamin Franklin
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Feb 8, 2013, 6:13:56 PM2/8/13
to
Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess wrote:
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess wrote:
> > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > > > Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > You'd probably like the QuackWatch.org web site, it has a lot of
> > > > > excellent information with highly credible references:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.atheistfrontier.com/resources/miscellaneous/#quackwatch
> > > >
> > > > http://WDJW.net/HeartDoc Andrew likes the fact that he's not
> > > > listed there on http://QuackWatch.com though many have likely
> > > > asked that he be listed out of their disbelief that he is
> > > > vanquishing their terrible "hunger is starvation" delusion:
> > > [snip]
> > >
> > > I suspect that the reason you're not listed on QuackWatch.org is
> > > that you haven't actually killed anyone with your bible-thumping
> > > medical quackery yet.
> >
> > No.
> >
> > The reason is simply that those of us who have been given MD degrees
> > are Medical Doctors, who are by definition not quacks. The conferment
> > of an MD degree is for life.
>
> I don't accept your claim...
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess wrote:
> > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > > > Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > You'd probably like the QuackWatch.org web site, it has a lot of
> > > > > excellent information with highly credible references:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.atheistfrontier.com/resources/miscellaneous/#quackwatch
> > > >
> > > > http://WDJW.net/HeartDoc Andrew likes the fact that he's not
> > > > listed there on http://QuackWatch.com though many have likely
> > > > asked that he be listed out of their disbelief that he is
> > > > vanquishing their terrible "hunger is starvation" delusion:
> > > [snip]
> > >
> > > I suspect that the reason you're not listed on QuackWatch.org is
> > > that you haven't actually killed anyone with your bible-thumping
> > > medical quackery yet.
> >
> > No.
> >
> > The reason is simply that those of us who have been given MD degrees
> > are Medical Doctors, who are by definition not quacks. The conferment
> > of an MD degree is for life.
>
The definition holds up regardless of your acceptance of it:
A "quack" is "a pretender to medical skill."
Source:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/quack
Someone with an MD degree is automatically **not** a pretender.
Truth is simply reality which perishing souls like satan really hate.
"For to us a Child is born, to us a Son is given, and the government
will be on His shoulders (Matthew 12:25). And He will be called
Wonderful Counselor (Luke 12:25), Mighty GOD (Mark 12:25), Everlasting
Father (John 12:25), Prince of Peace ( http://WDJW.net/PrinceOfPeace
)." (Isaiah 9:6) Yes, 12:25 really is the birthday of our risen LORD
Jesus 'Christ' of Nazareth. Laus Deo :-)
LORD Jesus Christ says "you are My friends if you do what I
command"(John 15:14) and "if you love Me, you will obey what I
command."(John 14:15)
The LORD commands His disciples, who are mindful of WDJW and are doing
what He wants, to "love each other as I have loved you."(John 15:12)
http://WDJW.net
The LORD teaches "greater love has no one than this, that he lay down
his life for his friends"(John 15:13) thereby meeting unwanted needs.
Friends don't want friends to die.
This is how we, who are Jesus' disciples (either Jew or gentile),
should love one another. We should mindfully choose to openly care
with our heart so that we would be willing to die for each other
because our LORD has been willing to die for each of us and indeed has
died for each of us so that we may have eternal life (John 3:16).
May dear neighbors, friends, and brethren have a blessedly wonderful
life in remembrance of the birth of our LORD Jesus Christ as our
Messiah, the Son of Man:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/ba987143725c5298?
Don't be like satan, who is not hungry as evident by his eating dust/
dirt (Genesis 3:14) instead of real food:
https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9c87c24ea7a7ee20?
Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for the
heart:
http://www.11alive.com/news/article/251415/3/Doctor-Touts-Hunger (Luke
6:21a) with all glory to GOD, Who causes us to hunger (Deuteronomy
8:3) when He blesses us right now (Luke 6:21a) thereby removing the
http://WDJW.net/VAT from around the heart
Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist (GA Lic#04037)
Only the truth can cure the 'hunger is starvation' delusion:"
http://www.amazon.com/Trust-Truth-hunger-starvation-delusion/dp/1440147663/
"no one can say 'Jesus is LORD' except by the Holy Spirit."(1Cor12:3)
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/035c93540862751c?
What are the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/470799ce370a2ff2?
What is the "hunger is starvation" delusion?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/74281ab7d7ce78de?"For
to us a Child is born, to us a Son is given, and the government will
be on His shoulders (Matthew 12:25). And He will be called Wonderful
Counselor (Luke 12:25), Mighty GOD (Mark 12:25), Everlasting Father
(John 12:25), Prince of Peace ( http://WDJW.net/PrinceOfPeace
)." (Isaiah 9:6) Yes, 12:25 really is the birthday of our risen LORD
Jesus 'Christ' of Nazareth. Laus Deo :-)
LORD Jesus Christ says "you are My friends if you do what I
command"(John 15:14) and "if you love Me, you will obey what I
command."(John 14:15)
The LORD commands His disciples, who are mindful of WDJW and are doing
what He wants, to "love each other as I have loved you."(John 15:12)
http://WDJW.net
The LORD teaches "greater love has no one than this, that he lay down
his life for his friends"(John 15:13) thereby meeting unwanted needs.
Friends don't want friends to die.
This is how we, who are Jesus' disciples (either Jew or gentile),
should love one another. We should mindfully choose to openly care
with our heart so that we would be willing to die for each other
because our LORD has been willing to die for each of us and indeed has
died for each of us so that we may have eternal life (John 3:16).
May dear neighbors, friends, and brethren have a blessedly wonderful
life in remembrance of the birth of our LORD Jesus Christ as our
Messiah, the Son of Man:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/ba987143725c5298?
Don't be like satan, who is not hungry as evident by his eating dust/
dirt (Genesis 3:14) instead of real food:
https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9c87c24ea7a7ee20?
Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for the
heart:
http://www.11alive.com/news/article/251415/3/Doctor-Touts-Hunger (Luke
6:21a) with all glory to GOD, Who causes us to hunger (Deuteronomy
8:3) when He blesses us right now (Luke 6:21a) thereby removing the
http://WDJW.net/VAT from around the heart
Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist (GA Lic#04037)
Only the truth can cure the 'hunger is starvation' delusion:"
http://www.amazon.com/Trust-Truth-hunger-starvation-delusion/dp/1440147663/
"no one can say 'Jesus is LORD' except by the Holy Spirit."(1Cor12:3)
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/035c93540862751c?
What are the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/470799ce370a2ff2?
What is the "hunger is starvation" delusion?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/74281ab7d7ce78de?
Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess
Feb 8, 2013, 7:40:29 PM2/8/13
to
knowledge in some field, typically in medicine."
Since you claim to have "special knowledge about divine healing" as if
it works, you most certainly fit the "quack" classification just for
that alone, but applying it as a solution to help patients instead of
treating them properly with tested, peer-reviewed, scientifically
verified medicines and treatments is of great concern because patients
depend on you, as an MD, to use modern medicine to help them.
By carrying on in this irrisponsible manner you could be putting
peoples' lives at risk, and I find that to be a very serious and
intolerable situation, particularly because you claim to be an MD. I
question if you even have malpractice insurance.
> Source:
> http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/quack
The definition you provided didn't appear on that page for me. Here's
my source, which is likely also more widely used:
http://www.google.com/search?q=define+quack
> Someone with an MD degree is automatically **not** a pretender.
that MDs are people too, and people are not infallible. You are a
great example of how it's possible for an MD to be a quack (assuming,
of course, that you really are an MD, in which case I hope your license
gets revoked post haste).
> Truth is simply reality which perishing souls like satan really hate.
If I was on the medical review board, I would be most concerned about
your ability to differentiate between fantasy and reality. If you want
to preach religion at a church, go right ahead, but it really has no
place in modern medicine.
--
Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess
"Religion and superstition is a river with class 5 rapids, but we'll
cross it ... it's our nature to overcome."
-- Crocodylus 73 (September 29, 2012)
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Feb 8, 2013, 8:16:57 PM2/8/13
to
> > http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/quack
>
> Or, more specifically:
The word "pretender" is already concise and specific especially in its
application here:
https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/5610dd4dfe67ccc4?
Now back to reversing type-2 diabetes and other acquired
cardiovascular disease ...
Yes, right amount ( http://WDJW.net/2PD-OMER Approach ) control as
Chris Malcolm, MU, **and** Rod Eastman are doing is much more
sophisticated and smarter:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.diet.low-carb/msg/8d2ef74488074acf?
and
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/522ce5c058224656?
**and**
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/da03131060efa3b5?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/055f2e7cf3c590ee?
Chris Malcolm, MU, **and** Rod Eastman are doing is much more
sophisticated and smarter:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.diet.low-carb/msg/8d2ef74488074acf?
and
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/522ce5c058224656?
**and**
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/da03131060efa3b5?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/055f2e7cf3c590ee?
So don't be an Ayoob or you will most certainly die a horrible (Mark
9:42) death:
9:42) death:
https://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9c87c24ea7a7ee20?
Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
Be hungrier, which really is wonderfully healthier especially for
diabetics and other heart disease patients:
http://www.11alive.com/news/article/251415/3/Doctor-Touts-Hunger (Luke
6:21a) with all glory to GOD, Who causes us to hunger (Deuteronomy
8:3) when He blesses us right now (Luke 6:21a) thereby removing the
http://WDJW.net/VAT
6:21a) with all glory to GOD, Who causes us to hunger (Deuteronomy
8:3) when He blesses us right now (Luke 6:21a) thereby removing the
http://WDJW.net/VAT
... because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,
Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist (GA Lic#04037)
Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist (GA Lic#04037)
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Feb 9, 2013, 3:05:51 AM2/9/13
to
Reg Griswold
Feb 9, 2013, 8:34:51 AM2/9/13
to
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/American_Medical_Association
Eliminating competitors to drug based paradigm
"In his 1994 book, The Assault on Medical Freedom, author P. Joseph
Lisa gained access to secret files in the AMA's Chicago Department of
investigation under the guise of collecting information to expose
"mental health quackery." In the process, he uncovered hundreds of AMA
photocopies of memos, minutes and other documents. In a subsequent ten
year investigation, he found little evidence of "quackery" and much
evidence of an organized propaganda campaign to discredit alternative
medicine and foreign drugs. The birth of the AMA in 1847 launched an
organized push for a "totalitarian medical pharmaceutical police
state". Funded by the drug industry, a single, medical monopoly was
established using the insurance industry, the U.S. Department of
Justice, the Federal Trade Commission (FTC), the Internal Revenue
Service (IRC), the U.S. Postal Service and other state and federal
agencies. From the onset, the AMA is characterized as a greed
motivated trade union, eliminating competitors to its own financial
and political interests. Funded by the Carnegie Foundation, Abraham
Flexner was ostensibly empowered to investigate the quality of medical
education in all 161 medical schools that existed in 1910. In league
with Rockefeller billions, Flexner helped destroy the credibility and
funding sources for nearly all schools using non-drug based medicine.
161 medical schools dwindled down to 81 by 1919 and medical graduates
declined from 5,747 to 2,658. "Overcrowding" of the profession became
the public AMA theme for the "opportunities of those already in the
profession to acquire a livelihood."[5]"
reg
Eliminating competitors to drug based paradigm
"In his 1994 book, The Assault on Medical Freedom, author P. Joseph
Lisa gained access to secret files in the AMA's Chicago Department of
investigation under the guise of collecting information to expose
"mental health quackery." In the process, he uncovered hundreds of AMA
photocopies of memos, minutes and other documents. In a subsequent ten
year investigation, he found little evidence of "quackery" and much
evidence of an organized propaganda campaign to discredit alternative
medicine and foreign drugs. The birth of the AMA in 1847 launched an
organized push for a "totalitarian medical pharmaceutical police
state". Funded by the drug industry, a single, medical monopoly was
established using the insurance industry, the U.S. Department of
Justice, the Federal Trade Commission (FTC), the Internal Revenue
Service (IRC), the U.S. Postal Service and other state and federal
agencies. From the onset, the AMA is characterized as a greed
motivated trade union, eliminating competitors to its own financial
and political interests. Funded by the Carnegie Foundation, Abraham
Flexner was ostensibly empowered to investigate the quality of medical
education in all 161 medical schools that existed in 1910. In league
with Rockefeller billions, Flexner helped destroy the credibility and
funding sources for nearly all schools using non-drug based medicine.
161 medical schools dwindled down to 81 by 1919 and medical graduates
declined from 5,747 to 2,658. "Overcrowding" of the profession became
the public AMA theme for the "opportunities of those already in the
profession to acquire a livelihood."[5]"
reg
Chopchinski
Feb 9, 2013, 9:04:29 AM2/9/13
to
On 2/9/2013 8:34 AM, Reg Griswold aka carole hubbard wrote:
> http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/American_Medical_Association
>
> Eliminating competitors to drug based paradigm
More fantasy from carole hubbard to support her kook's agenda.
> http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/American_Medical_Association
>
> Eliminating competitors to drug based paradigm
carole hubbard is a cow and purveyor of internet disinformation.
http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2011/12/30/1226233/362699-cows.jpg
http://www.audiomicro.com/tracks/dialog/113511
http://contributor.yahoo.com/user/155927/carole_hubbard.html
http://members.iimetro.com.au/~hubbca/zionism.htm
http://www.finanz-gruppen.de/thread/23363/Re-PERTH-WILL-DIE.html
http://www.anosvic.org.au/ANOS_Vic_Contacts.html
DocBGK
Feb 9, 2013, 9:28:30 AM2/9/13
to
"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <disci...@T3WiJ.com> wrote:
> Andrew <><
> --
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist
NOTE: Certification Area: Cardiovascular Disease.
> --
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist
Certification Status: Not Certified.
Certification Expired: 12/31/2012.
http://www.abim.org/services/physver.aspx
DocBGK
Feb 9, 2013, 9:36:55 AM2/9/13
to
"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <disci...@T3WiJ.com> wrote:
>
>
> GOD-sanctification (1 Thessalonians 5:23) is infinitely greater than
> board-certification for He makes the latter eternal
The latter is board-certification. Oops LOL!
> board-certification for He makes the latter eternal
> without need for eternal fee payments to ABIM :-)
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Feb 10, 2013, 12:11:32 AM2/10/13
to
DocBGK
Feb 10, 2013, 2:48:44 AM2/10/13
to
"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <disci...@T3WiJ.com> wrote:
> Andrew <><
> --
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist
> --
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> EmoryIMVC.org Cardiologist
NOTE: Certification Area: Cardiovascular Disease.
Certification Status: Not Certified.
Certification Expired: 12/31/2012.
http://www.abim.org/services/physver.aspx
Certification Status: Not Certified.
Certification Expired: 12/31/2012.
http://www.abim.org/services/physver.aspx
> GOD-sanctification (1 Thessalonians 5:23) is infinitely greater than
> board-certification for He makes the latter eternal
> board-certification for He makes the latter eternal
The latter is board-certification. Oops LOL!
> without need for eternal fee payments to ABIM :-)
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Feb 11, 2013, 12:22:00 AM2/11/13
to
DocBGK
Feb 11, 2013, 8:58:32 AM2/11/13
to
On Feb 10, 9:22 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <disci...@T3WiJ.com>
wrote:
>
> is infinitely greater than
> board-certification
The latter.
> for He makes the latter eternal
If the latter... board-certification... is eternal... then how did
Chung's board-certification expire?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/43e37bb483e9ca25
Oh well, no point in trying to unravel the gobbledygook of a
crackpot.
wrote:
>
> GOD-sanctification (1 Thessalonians 5:23)
The former.
> is infinitely greater than
> board-certification
> for He makes the latter eternal
Chung's board-certification expire?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/43e37bb483e9ca25
Oh well, no point in trying to unravel the gobbledygook of a
crackpot.
Reg Griswold
Feb 11, 2013, 12:17:57 PM2/11/13
to
Treating cancer with bicarbonate of soda
http://www.curenaturalicancro.com
Dr. Tullio Simoncini is a roman doctor specialising in oncology,
diabetology and in metabolic disorders.
At the beginning of the 1900s, one person out of 100 died of cancer;
today it is one out of three.
We foresee that within a few years one out of two people will die of
cancer.
Based on years of scientific and clinical research, at the centre of
every cancer tumour is a common fungus, Candida albicans.
The good news is that it can be treated with a powerful antifungal
agent that's inexpensive and readily available.
Dr Simoncini's fungal hypothesis
http://www.curenaturalicancro.com/video-fungal-hypothesis-1.html
reg
http://www.curenaturalicancro.com
Dr. Tullio Simoncini is a roman doctor specialising in oncology,
diabetology and in metabolic disorders.
At the beginning of the 1900s, one person out of 100 died of cancer;
today it is one out of three.
We foresee that within a few years one out of two people will die of
cancer.
Based on years of scientific and clinical research, at the centre of
every cancer tumour is a common fungus, Candida albicans.
The good news is that it can be treated with a powerful antifungal
agent that's inexpensive and readily available.
Dr Simoncini's fungal hypothesis
http://www.curenaturalicancro.com/video-fungal-hypothesis-1.html
reg
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Feb 12, 2013, 1:39:47 AM2/12/13
to
DocBGK
Feb 12, 2013, 5:29:26 AM2/12/13
to
"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" wrote:
>
> GOD-sanctification (1 Thessalonians 5:23)
The former.
>
> GOD-sanctification (1 Thessalonians 5:23)
> is infinitely greater than
>
> board-certification
> for He makes the latter eternal
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Feb 13, 2013, 12:15:27 AM2/13/13
to
0 new messages