Want a charger with your iPhone 12? Move to Brazil. Want Earpods with your iPhone 12? Move to France.

[sms]

Want a charger with your iPhone 12? Move to Brazil. Want Earpods with
your iPhone 12? Move to France.

<https://thenextweb.com/plugged/2020/12/03/want-your-iphone-12-to-come-with-a-charger-go-to-brazil/>

[Arlen Holder]

Every time you apologists re-post what was long ago already posted
o You exactly prove my point that all apologists are immune to facts

See the thread that already covered this topic:
o A Brazilian consumer protection agency declared the "charger in the box" to be an "essential" component
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/vJlfXaBaSFQ>

None of these apologists are likely scientists or engineers (IMHO)
o You can't survive in high tech being as immune as Steve is to facts.

It works fine for politicians to be immune to facts
o But intelligent people keep up with the data
--
At least Type III apologists like Steve are only late to facts.

[nospam]

In article <rqk5bt$goq$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> Want a charger with your iPhone 12? Move to Brazil. Want Earpods with
> your iPhone 12? Move to France.

no need, since nearly everyone has multiples of both.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sun, 06 Dec 2020 23:02:31 -0500, nospam wrote:

> no need, since nearly everyone has multiples of both.

Hi nospam,

Apple always removes functionality so that they can sell it back to you.

That's like paying tons of money for a new kitchen with 220V appliances
o And they don't even bother replacing the old power cords

You have to use your old, decrepit, worn, fatigued, damaged power cords.
o It's a safety hazard, and, Apple will void your warranty apparently

Yup. Apple can't vouch for the safety nor say they won't void warranties.
o That's what the Brazilians said Apple told them up front.

You use an old charger, apparently, and it damages your iPhone
o Tough luck - you should have purchased a brand new Apple charger.
--
Apple always removes functionality so that they can sell it back to you.

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 7 Dec 2020 03:57:34 +0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> None of these apologists are likely scientists or engineers (IMHO)
> o You can't survive in high tech being as immune as Steve is to facts.

Apologists like nospam _always_ take the position of Apple MARKETING
(even if they, themselves, don't believe a single word of what they say).

To Steve's credit, this thread isn't _exactly_ a copy of the older thread.
o The very last sentence of his cite does cover the earpods in France

Which the canonical thread on this topic did not cover.

So let's look at the facts, as reported by the article Steve referenced:
o Want your iPhone 12 to come with a charger? Go to Brazil
<https://thenextweb.com/plugged/2020/12/03/want-your-iphone-12-to-come-with-a-charger-go-to-brazil/>

Note I already covered the Brazilian side of this in the canonical thread
o So this is only the one verbatim quote of what it said about earpods

"This isn't the first legal challenge Apple has had while removing items
from the iPhone box. Due to a French law mandating handset makers must
ship their devices with hands-free solutions, the company had to include
earpods with the iPhone in the country - something it has stopped doing
in other markets across the world."

In summary, it seems:
a. Brazil says Apple refuses to honor the warranty if your phone is damaged
b. France says every mobile device must be a complete hands-free solution
--
Apologists like nospam _always_ take the position of Apple MARKETING
(even if they, themselves, don't believe a single word of what they say).

[nospam]

In article <rqk5bt$goq$1...@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> Want a charger with your iPhone 12? Move to Brazil. Want Earpods with
> your iPhone 12? Move to France.

meanwhile, samsung will *not* be including either one:

<https://9to5mac.com/2020/12/07/samsung-ditch-power-adapters-after-mocki
ng-apple/>
As reported by Brazilian website Tecnoblog, the new Galaxy S21,
Galaxy S21+, and Galaxy S21 Ultra have just been approved by
ANATEL in Brazil, which is the equivalent agency to the FCC in the
United States. The new devices have the codenames SM-G991B/DS,
SM-G996B/DS, and SM-G998B/DS, respectively.

While the documentation filed at ANATEL doesnıt reveal much detail
about upcoming Galaxy smartphones, it does reveal a noteworthy
change in the lineup of Samsungıs phones for the next year. ANATEL
says that all three new Galaxy S21 models will not have a charger
included in the box. Headphones will not be included either.

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 07 Dec 2020 21:29:42 -0500, nospam wrote:

> meanwhile, samsung will *not* be including either one:

Hi nospam,

You _always_ blame everyone but Apple for Apple's own decisions.
o In your _desperate_ attempt to _deflect_ people from what Apple did.

*The fact remains that _zero_ Android device do what Apple does today*
o Yes, I said zero (nobody can find even a single one!)

Just like when you claim Android is removing the aux jack
o When it turns out almost zero (less than 1/2 of 1%) devices lack it

You are absolutely _desperate_ nospam, to _deflect_ people from the TRUTH.
o The truth is Apple removed basic functionality so you must buy it back.

In fact, they'll void your warranty if you don't.
o That's what they told Brazil (according to the reports)

You're _dead_ if you do _not_ purchase a brand new Apple charger, nospam.
o Which is a fact you're _desperate_ to deflect blame from, nospam.

The facts that nospam is desperate to deflect from remain...

a. Brazil says Apple refuses to honor the warranty if your phone is damaged
b. France says every mobile device must be a complete hands-free solution

That's the topic, nospam, that you are _desperate_ to deflect blame from.
--
See these facts nospam is desperate to deflect people from knowing.

o A Brazilian consumer protection agency declared the "charger in the box" to be an "essential" component.
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/vJlfXaBaSFQ>
o Which recent 2019 & 2020 Android phones do NOT come with a charger in the box (that are in the price range of an iPhone)?
<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.mobile.android/c/-FSFIHYbs3o>
o How many of the existing Android phones lack headphone jack basic hardware functionality
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/ZjnD2kAf-mI>

[Arlen Holder]

On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 11:28:52 -0000 (UTC), Matt wrote:

>> no need, since nearly everyone has multiples of both.
>

> And for those who's selling their old phones with charger and earphones?

Hi Matt,

It's clear to me nospam _whooshed_ on the adult reasons for these actions
A. Brazil may require basically functionality to be included in the box
B. France may require basically functionality to be included in the box

The _functional_ reasons are rather simple & obvious, but only to adults:

a. Brazil says Apple refuses to honor the warranty if your phone is damaged
b. France says every mobile device must be a complete hands-free solution

HINT: Apple _removed_ the basic functionality of the headphone jack
o Which is on more than 99.5% of all Android devices
(i.e., the lack of basic functionality is essentially only on iPhones).

The MARKETING reasons are just as obvious, but only to adults:
o Apple removes _basic_ functionality so that they can then sell it back.
--
Only actual adults will be able to comprehend the content of this post.

[Lewis]

In message <rqno1k$ang$1...@dont-email.me> Matt <ma...@lv426.eu.invalid> wrote:
> On lun. 07 décembre 2020 (05:02),

> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>> no need, since nearly everyone has multiples of both.

> And for those who's selling their old phones with charger and earphones?

Who the hell buys used earpods?

--
Minds are like parachutes, they only work when they are open.

[sms]

On 12/8/2020 3:28 AM, Matt wrote:

<snip>

> And for those who's selling their old phones with charger and earphones?

That's good point, but Apple really prefers that people trade in their
old phones rather than sell them. Probably no one want anyone's old ear
pods when they buy a used phone and after-market chargers are
inexpensive. Just got some QC3.0/PD chargers during the 11/11 sale for
$9.55 each including the two extra plugs for use in the EU and UK
<https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000183891000.html>.

I think that the Brazilian law that a company has to include the
accessories necessary for the basic use of a device is a good one.
Probably if Apple had at least included a USB-A to Lightning cable that
would have been sufficient since it's safe to assume that everyone has a
USB-A port somewhere, but a lot of people have no USB-C port to use with
the included USB-C to Lightning cable.

[JF Mezei]

On 2020-12-08 19:48, sms wrote:

> That's good point, but Apple really prefers that people trade in their
> old phones rather than sell them.

If they "really prefers", the prices offered would be higher. In the
end, from an environment point of view, making phones last longer and be
repairable is the answer. Manufacturers don't want to go there because
that drops sales. (apple not alone, but the iPhone 12 leads the way
where even the camer acan't be replaced).

[nospam]

In article <rqp6si$crg$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> > And for those who's selling their old phones with charger and earphones?
>
> That's good point, but Apple really prefers that people trade in their
> old phones rather than sell them.

apple doesn't have any preference what people do with old phones.

> Probably no one want anyone's old ear
> pods when they buy a used phone and after-market chargers are
> inexpensive.

that, and just about everyone *already* *has* *them*.

> I think that the Brazilian law that a company has to include the
> accessories necessary for the basic use of a device is a good one.
> Probably if Apple had at least included a USB-A to Lightning cable that
> would have been sufficient since it's safe to assume that everyone has a
> USB-A port somewhere, but a lot of people have no USB-C port to use with
> the included USB-C to Lightning cable.

usb-c might not be as common as usb-a, but it's been around for roughly
five years with numerous computers and devices from numerous
manufacturers supporting it.

those upgrading from older iphones already have a usb-a lightning cable
which and android switchers have a usb-c charger.

the number of people who are adversely affected is very, very, very low.

samsung is also not going to include chargers and headphones, and quite
likely, other manufacturers.

[Arlen Holder]

On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 16:48:15 -0800, sms wrote:

> I think that the Brazilian law that a company has to include the
> accessories necessary for the basic use of a device is a good one.

Hi sms,
While you _still_ think Qualcomm royalties went down...
o The fact is that they went up.

Apple is desperate to defray expenses that their 5G surrender cost them.
o They do that by _removing_ basic functionality... & then selling it back.

Kuo said that was their plan, as was putting in inferior batteries.
o Apple to offset costly 5G iPhone components with cheaper battery tech
<https://groups.google.com/forum/topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/NXvxAutn4Lg>

Even so, the point of the Brazilian government appears to be logical.

Apple apparently has _refused_ to guarantee they will honor the consumers'
iPhone 12 warranty if an old charger damages the iPhone 12.

*It's all about providing the "necessary" components, in the box.*
o Apple's tactic is to remove basic functionality so you will buy it back.
--
One bug.... and the entire house of cards built by MARKETING falls down.
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/7Mc1sX9XISA>

[Arlen Holder]

On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 20:10:10 -0500, JF Mezei wrote:

> If they "really prefers", the prices offered would be higher. In the
> end, from an environment point of view, making phones last longer and be
> repairable is the answer. Manufacturers don't want to go there because
> that drops sales. (apple not alone, but the iPhone 12 leads the way
> where even the camera can't be replaced).

JF Mezei is one of the very few people on this ng who are not apologists
o Hence, his opinion is logical, sensible, and reasonable (and adult).

Instead of fabricating inane excuses for Apple's greedy behavior, he
discusses the facts on their own merits, using rational assessments.

Apple's plan, clearly, is to remove basic expected functionality
o So that they can then sell back that functionality they removed.

Apple uses a _variety_ of tricks to implement that greedy strategy.
o Never forget Apple's ungodly profits are off its customers' backs.

The lack of the camera being reparable is just one of Apple's tricks.
o iFixit reports major repair issues essentially rendering iPhone 12 camera repair almost unusable
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/QdyTJ8ZVbkM>
--
Apple's strategy is to remove basic functionality to make you buy it back.

[Arlen Holder]

On Tue, 08 Dec 2020 20:18:08 -0500, nospam wrote:

> apple doesn't have any preference what people do with old phones.

*Apple _refuses_ to guarantee they will honor your iPhone 12 warranty*
o If you use an old charger that ends up damaging the iPhone, nospam.

[Bernd Froehlich]

On 9. Dec 2020 at 01:48:15 CET, "sms" <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> I think that the Brazilian law that a company has to include the
> accessories necessary for the basic use of a device is a good one.

Sooo... they have to include a SIM-card with iPhones? 🧐

[Lewis]

In message <i3adrv...@mid.individual.net> Jolly Roger <jolly...@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2020-12-08, Lewis <g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:
>> In message <rqno1k$ang$1...@dont-email.me> Matt <ma...@lv426.eu.invalid> wrote:
>>> On lun. 07 décembre 2020 (05:02),
>>> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>> no need, since nearly everyone has multiples of both.
>>
>>> And for those who's selling their old phones with charger and earphones?
>>
>> Who the hell buys used earpods?

> Nasty people.

I don't know anyone who would use someone else's earpods, much less pay
to use them.


--
Amazingly Beautiful Creatures Dancing Excites the Forest Glade, in my
Heart how I do Jump like the Kudo Listen to the Music so Nice the
Organ Plays. Quietly Rests the Sleepy Tiger Under the Vine tree
at the Water's side and X marks the spot 'neath the Yellow moon
where the Zulu king and I did hide.

[nospam]

In article <rqq5u1$clb$1...@dont-email.me>, Matt <ma...@lv426.eu.invalid>
wrote:

> >> Probably no one want anyone's old ear
> >> pods when they buy a used phone and after-market chargers are
> >> inexpensive.
>
> > that, and just about everyone *already* *has* *them*.
>

> Except those who haven't buy any smartphone.
> I would like to see their faces when the seller tolds them "sorry buddy
> you will have to buy a charger in order to use your new phone more than
> one day and buy earpods if you want to listen your music".

plenty of people have usb chargers who never have bought a smartphone
since many other devices also use usb for power, but if not they can
charge it from their computer. smartphones also have speakers, so no
headphones required.

plus, most people are now using bluetooth headphones, one reason why
bundled wired headphones go unused and no longer included.

[Arlen Holder]

Steve & Bernd are both clearly lacking in adult comprehensive skills.
o This, sadly to say, is trivial to prove.

The _reason_ for the Brazilian law was stated by the Brazilians.
o *It's about Apple's refusal to honor its _warranty_ - you utter morons*.
--
It shocks me the utter lack of adult comprehensive skills on Apple ngs.

[Arlen Holder]

On Wed, 9 Dec 2020 09:39:46 -0000 (UTC), Matt wrote:

> Bernd Froehlich <be...@eaglesoft.de> wrote:
>
>> Sooo... they have to include a SIM-card with iPhones? ?
>
> Going that far, then why bundle an operating system with the phone after
> all?

Hi Matt,

I instantly understand your analogy, where analogies work, but only to a point.
o People need to comprehend the _fundamental_ point of the Brazilian/French laws.

In the Brazilian case, *it's about Apple refusing to honor their warranty*
o In the French case, it's about the device meeting handsfree requirements.

It's only on these child-like Apple newsgroups that people don't get facts.
--
What shocks me is the utter lack of adult comprehensive skills on this ng.

[Arlen Holder]

On Wed, 09 Dec 2020 06:00:37 -0500, nospam wrote:

> plenty of people have usb chargers who never have bought a smartphone

Either nospam truly _is_ an utter moron, or he's bullshitting us (again).

*The Brazilian law is about the _warranty_*.

What part of 'Warranty' do all you Apple morons not get yet?
--
What's consistent on the child-like Apple newsgroups is lack of adult comprehension.

[Arlen Holder]

On Wed, 9 Dec 2020 13:37:27 -0000 (UTC), Matt wrote:

> Bluetooth headphones just plain sucks as of today

At the risk of repeating the obvious to all you child-like Apple morons.

1. The Brazilian law is about the _warranty_ when using old chargers.
2. The French law is about it being hands'free out of the box.

What shocks me is the utter lack of adult comprehension on this ng.
--
Apple apologists are so incredibly ignorant they can't even comprehend this.

[Arlen Holder]

On Wed, 9 Dec 2020 14:40:47 -0000 (UTC), Matt wrote:

>> What shocks me is the utter lack of adult comprehension on this ng.
>

> Common sense is eluded for some when there are economic reasons.

Hi Matt,

Using my adult comprehensive skills, the topic, as I see it, is:
o Brazil === Apple apparently refuses to abide by basic warranty laws
o France === Apple isn't satisfying hands-free (out of the box) laws

Apologists are consistent in lacking adult comprehensive skills:
o Type I (nospam) always defend MARKETING decisions to the death.
o Type II (sms) don't seem to ever comprehend the details in the cites.
o Type III (Lewis) are DK Quadrant 1 - so sure in their utter ignorance.

Notice all three types of apologists prove me 100% correct in this thread!
1. nospam is desperate to deflect us from the warranty & hands-free laws.
2. Steve (again, sigh) didn't even _comprehend_ the very article he cited!
3. Lewis proved, as always, he's a cultist moron with an IQ of laughable.

Of the three, you have to understand their motives & what they believe:
a. nospam doesn't believe a word he says as his goal is to defend MARKETING
b. Steve actually believes what he said - because he doesn't check facts
c. Lewis is a lost cause - he self identifies with Apple - obtaining his
esteem from MARKETING, such that _any_ threat to Apple MARKETING's
decisions is a very threat to his own existence.

Notice you can _predict_ almost every response from these apologists:
A. nospam will deflect, blame, deny, etc., any fact inconvenient to Apple
His motive, strangely, is to defend Apple decisions to the death.

B. Steve will simply never get what any cite actually says
(Steve _still_ thinks Qualcomm royalties went down!).
His motive isn't malicious; he's just not used to dealing with facts.

C. Lewis considers Apple and himself indistinguishable, as Lewis derives
his very self esteem from Apple products and MARKETING messaging. Hence
any affront to Apple MARKETING mantra is a direct insult against his
own self esteem. This is why, I posit, these Type III apologists react
so viciously with their hateful vitriol against mere bearers of fact.

What ruins this newsgroup is that these apologists exist.
o Otherwise this would be a normal conversation on the merits of the facts.

The facts clearly are, to those with adult comprehensive skills anyway:
o Brazil === Apple apparently refuses to abide by basic warranty laws
o France === Apple isn't satisfying hands-free (out of the box) laws
--
Apple removes functionality so that you're always forced to buy it back.

[Lewis]

In message <rqq5u1$clb$1...@dont-email.me> Matt <ma...@lv426.eu.invalid> wrote:
> On mer. 09 décembre 2020 (02:18),

> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>>> Probably no one want anyone's old ear
>>> pods when they buy a used phone and after-market chargers are
>>> inexpensive.

>> that, and just about everyone *already* *has* *them*.

> Except those who haven't buy any smartphone.

Those coma patients can easily get a USB charger and a pair of
headphones.

> I would like to see their faces when the seller tolds them "sorry buddy
> you will have to buy a charger in order to use your new phone more than
> one day

You will also need a way to generate electricity, some wiring, and
probably a account with a local power company who will helpfully generate
the electricity for you.

> and buy earpods if you want to listen your music".

No, the phones do not need earpods to listen to music.

--
Nothing is impossible for those who don't have to do it.

[Lewis]

In message <rqqjun$b3u$1...@dont-email.me> Matt <ma...@lv426.eu.invalid> wrote:
> On mer. 09 décembre 2020 (12:00),

> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>> plenty of people have usb chargers who never have bought a smartphone
>> since many other devices also use usb for power, but if not they can
>> charge it from their computer. smartphones also have speakers, so no
>> headphones required.

> Sorry but you are making spurious assertions. No not eveyrone like
> you said have chargers.

Yes, they do.

> No headphones required? Well you obvisously miss the point whereas for
> example people wants to listen music without disturbing folks.

That is a choice, not a requirement.

> Bluetooth headphones just plain sucks as of today,

Bull fucking shit.

> all of this for the sake of twisted cables getting on your way, what a
> progress...

The number of headphones I have ruined because the cable got caught in a
drawer handle, car door, fence post... Yeah, easily in the double
digits in the last 45 years. Oh, and one phone, two walkmans, and one
wireless POTS phone.

Wires suck.


--
Honesty may be the best policy, but insanity is a better defense.

[nospam]

In article <rqr9on$rrt$1...@dont-email.me>, Matt <ma...@lv426.eu.invalid>
wrote:

> This happened in my surrounding, it's why I discovered iPhones aren't
> sold anymore with a charger (I don't follow scrupulously headlines about
> iPhones/iOS anymore).
> Guess what? They have bought another brand.

hopefully not samsung, because samsung won't be including chargers or
headphones either, and quite likely, other device makers will follow.

<https://9to5mac.com/2020/12/07/samsung-ditch-power-adapters-after-mocki
ng-apple/>
As reported by Brazilian website Tecnoblog, the new Galaxy S21,
Galaxy S21+, and Galaxy S21 Ultra have just been approved by
ANATEL in Brazil, which is the equivalent agency to the FCC in the
United States. The new devices have the codenames SM-G991B/DS,
SM-G996B/DS, and SM-G998B/DS, respectively.

While the documentation filed at ANATEL doesnıt reveal much detail
about upcoming Galaxy smartphones, it does reveal a noteworthy change
in the lineup of Samsungıs phones for the next year. ANATEL says that
all three new Galaxy S21 models will not have a charger included in
the box. Headphones will not be included either.

> >> and buy earpods if you want to listen your music".
>
> > No, the phones do not need earpods to listen to music.
>

> Miswording. I should have said "headphones".

nobody includes headphones.

[nospam]

In article <rqqjun$b3u$1...@dont-email.me>, Matt <ma...@lv426.eu.invalid>
wrote:

>
> > plenty of people have usb chargers who never have bought a smartphone
> > since many other devices also use usb for power, but if not they can
> > charge it from their computer. smartphones also have speakers, so no
> > headphones required.
>

> Sorry but you are making spurious assertions. No not eveyrone like
> you said have chargers.

almost everyone does.

the number who do not is very, very, very, very small, to where it can
be considered to be zero.

> No headphones required? Well you obvisously miss the point whereas for
> example people wants to listen music without disturbing folks.

sometimes they do. fortunately, people have headphones from all sorts
of other products.

the fact is that nearly everyone already has chargers and headphones,
which means the bundled ones go unused. they are e-waste.

samsung will stop including chargers and headphones with their next
models. other device makers will likely follow.

> > plus, most people are now using bluetooth headphones, one reason why
> > bundled wired headphones go unused and no longer included.
>

> Bluetooth headphones just plain sucks as of today, it requires you to
> charge them (great, another thing to do to listen music) and are
> obsoleted as soon as their batteries can't charge anymore nor provide
> enough power to be used comfortably; all of this for the sake of twisted

> cables getting on your way, what a progress...

nonsense.

you've obviously never used modern bluetooth headphones.

[Arlen Holder]

On Wed, 09 Dec 2020 15:26:59 -0500, nospam wrote:

> hopefully not samsung, because samsung won't be including chargers or
> headphones either, and quite likely, other device makers will follow.

Hi nospam,

o Why are you so desperate to blame everyone but Apple for Apple's decisions?

[Arlen Holder]

On Wed, 09 Dec 2020 15:27:01 -0500, nospam wrote:

>> Sorry but you are making spurious assertions. No not eveyrone like
>> you said have chargers.
>
> almost everyone does.
>
> the number who do not is very, very, very, very small, to where it can
> be considered to be zero.

The problem is that Apple _refuses_ to honor it's own iPhone 12 warranty
o If you use an old charger, nospam

[sms]

It's like used cars. You get less from a dealer when you do a trade-in
versus selling it on your own, but it's less hassle to trade it in.

As to repair ability, making things repairable increases the cost of
manufacturing as well as making things less compact. How many people
that have smart phones with removable batteries ever replaced a battery?
Very few.

At least Apple has a good battery-replacement service and there are
enough iPhones out there that the replacement batteries haven't been
sitting around for 2-3 years deteriorating.

[sms]

On 12/9/2020 5:37 AM, Matt wrote:
> On mer. 09 décembre 2020 (12:00),
> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>

>> plenty of people have usb chargers who never have bought a smartphone
>> since many other devices also use usb for power, but if not they can
>> charge it from their computer. smartphones also have speakers, so no
>> headphones required.
>

> Sorry but you are making spurious assertions. No not eveyrone like
> you said have chargers.
>

> No headphones required? Well you obvisously miss the point whereas for
> example people wants to listen music without disturbing folks.
>

>> plus, most people are now using bluetooth headphones, one reason why
>> bundled wired headphones go unused and no longer included.
>

> Bluetooth headphones just plain sucks as of today, it requires you to
> charge them (great, another thing to do to listen music) and are
> obsoleted as soon as their batteries can't charge anymore nor provide
> enough power to be used comfortably; all of this for the sake of twisted
> cables getting on your way, what a progress...

It's also spurious because Apple doesn't include a USB-A to Lightning
cable with new iPhones. A USB-A port is something that most people have
somewhere, but a USB-C port, many people have no such port.

[sms]

On 12/8/2020 3:28 AM, Matt wrote:
> On lun. 07 décembre 2020 (05:02),
> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>> no need, since nearly everyone has multiples of both.
>
> And for those who's selling their old phones with charger and earphones?

I think that Apple really wants to encourage users to move 100%
wireless, with wireless charging and wireless headphones (preferably all
from Apple!). I would not be surprised if the next port to disappear
from iPhones is the Lightning port, maybe not on the iPhone 13 or 14,
but by the 15 or 16.

[nospam]

In article <rqri5k$l9f$2...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> It's also spurious because Apple doesn't include a USB-A to Lightning
> cable with new iPhones. A USB-A port is something that most people have
> somewhere,

usb-a to lightning cables are *extremely* common, which were included
with a very wide variety of apple products, not just iphones.

> but a USB-C port, many people have no such port.

usb-c has been around for roughly 5 years. many people *do* have such a
port, particularly android switchers, which has used usb-c for both
chargers and phones. also, those who have bought a recent computer
almost certainly have usb-c ports.

it's a non-issue for nearly everyone.

[nospam]

In article <rqrkbj$2s7$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> I think that Apple really wants to encourage users to move 100%
> wireless, with wireless charging and wireless headphones (preferably all
> from Apple!). I would not be surprised if the next port to disappear
> from iPhones is the Lightning port, maybe not on the iPhone 13 or 14,
> but by the 15 or 16.

what happened to your 'proof' that apple was going to switch to usb-c
with the next iphone?

[Lewis]

In message <rqr9on$rrt$1...@dont-email.me> Matt <ma...@lv426.eu.invalid> wrote:
> On mer. 09 décembre 2020 (20:10),

> Lewis <g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:

>> Those coma patients can easily get a USB charger and a pair of
>> headphones.

> Yet they expected these accessories are bundled with their first
> smartphone... like when they have to buy any other electrical products.

> This happened in my surrounding, it's why I discovered iPhones aren't
> sold anymore with a charger (I don't follow scrupulously headlines about
> iPhones/iOS anymore).
> Guess what? They have bought another brand.

their loss.

>>> and buy earpods if you want to listen your music".

>> No, the phones do not need earpods to listen to music.

> Miswording. I should have said "headphones".

Still wrong.

--
It's against my programming to impersonate a deity.

[Lewis]

In message <rqradj$rrt$2...@dont-email.me> Matt <ma...@lv426.eu.invalid> wrote:
> On mer. 09 décembre 2020 (20:15),

> Lewis <g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:

>>> Sorry but you are making spurious assertions. No not eveyrone like
>>> you said have chargers.

>> Yes, they do.

> No. Just because you think they do doesn't makes it a reality. Some
> humility please.

That word doesn't mean what you apparently think it means. Chargers aer
*everywhere*. You don't even need to buy them if you live in the right
area.

>>> No headphones required? Well you obvisously miss the point whereas for
>>> example people wants to listen music without disturbing folks.

>> That is a choice, not a requirement.

> If you got education, yes it is a requirement.

What the fuck does that means?

> Playing your music in a crowded place

Oh, now we are in a crowded place. When did that happen?

>>> Bluetooth headphones just plain sucks as of today,

>> Bull fucking shit.

> Let's be as rude as you buddy: logicial sense hurts :->

You say bull shit, I will call it bullshit.

Wired headphones *SUCK* and I am glad to never use them.

>> The number of headphones I have ruined because the cable got caught in a
>> drawer handle, car door, fence post... Yeah, easily in the double
>> digits in the last 45 years. Oh, and one phone, two walkmans, and one
>> wireless POTS phone.

> I do agree and I would be a liar if the same (much less I have to
> say) haven't occured to me. But wireless headphones actually do have
> *much* more disadvantages than wired ones.

Not even close. Wireless are 100 times better, perhaps more.

>> Wires suck.

> It does, less than wireless though.

Your opinion. And you know what, you can get wired headphones. You can
get then for under $10 here. Have at it. Wireless are so much better
that I was *happy* to spend over $200 on my AirPods pro. They are
fantastic and they have only gotten better since I bought them.

--
We are born naked, wet and hungry; then it's all downhill.

[nospam]

In article <slrnrt2np2....@promini.local>, Lewis

<g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:

>
> > Playing your music in a crowded place
>
> Oh, now we are in a crowded place. When did that happen?

that was before the pandemic.

[Arlen Holder]

On Wed, 9 Dec 2020 14:09:36 -0800, sms wrote:

> As to repair ability, making things repairable increases the cost of
> manufacturing as well as making things less compact. How many people
> that have smart phones with removable batteries ever replaced a battery?
> Very few.

Hi JF Mezei,

Warning... this is an adult topic (something apologists can't fathom)...

I've replaced the batteries on my phones, which have lasted more than 5
years, where I was able to put in a 7,000 mAh battery to boot!

Nonetheless, all smartphones, I hope, will be forced to have consumer
replaceable batteries in the future, which we have discussed prior:
o All new iPhones might be forced to have a removable battery (Android too)
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/4Ja4FP5eL5s>

BTW, Apple prematurely replaced 11 million batteries in just one year...
o At the consumers' expense, no less

That's not a small number IMHO.
o FACTS: Apple replaced 11 million batteries last year
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/8Vica_VqdT4>

I realize you're not an apologist, so you "might" be able to fathom what is
going on, where the apologists will never comprehend adult topics such as
this is.

1. Apple MARKETING is the finest in the world (and the most clever)
2. They come up with ideas to _reduce_ functionality any way they can
3. So that they can then _sell_ that functionality back to the consumer

Bearing in mind Apple has ungodly profits, it's because they're smart.
o But it's also because the Apple consumer is ungodly gullible

So while EVERY Android OEM would _love_ to get away with Apple's tricks
o Most of those reduce-it-so-they-buy-it-back tricks don't work on Android

That's because Android consumers, in general, aren't like Apple gullibles.
o Android consumers, for example, _demand_ basic aux jack functionality

Android consumers, in general, _demand_ sdcard expansion functionality
o Android consumers, in general, demand standard non-proprietary cabling

In summary, while nospam is fond of claiming imaginary OEMs following
Apple's lead, I posit they'd _all_ love to have Apple's ungodly profits,
so they too would love to _follow_ Apple in removing functionality so as to
sell it back - but - unfortunately for Android OEMS - the Android consumer
is nowhere near as gullible as the typical Apple consumer.

Hence, nearly all Android devices (over 99.5%) have aux jacks...
o All Android devices (100% so far) provide the charger in the box.

I hope you realize this is an _adult_ point of view which the apologists
couldn't possibly fathom because I didn't make every statement kindergarten
simple for them as I presume you can comprehend the adult nature of this
topic.
--
One bug.... and the entire untested core iOS house of cards falls down.
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/7Mc1sX9XISA>
Google asked "Was it really that easy?", to which the answer was "Yes".

[Arlen Holder]

On Wed, 9 Dec 2020 14:50:27 -0800, sms wrote:

> I think that Apple really wants to encourage users to move 100%
> wireless, with wireless charging and wireless headphones (preferably all
> from Apple!).

Apple is the finest MARKETING organization on the planet, IMHO.
o There's a good reason Apple _removed_ competitors just prior to launch.

o Apple Stops Selling Rival Earphones, Speakers Ahead of Launches (Bose, Sonos, & some Logitech gear)
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/6NXqFzxwFwA>

> I would not be surprised if the next port to disappear
> from iPhones is the Lightning port, maybe not on the iPhone 13 or 14,
> but by the 15 or 16.

What's interesting is how slow these Type II apologists are to data uptake
o Apple is killing the charging plug on its highest-end phones by 2021, top analyst predicts
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/NXl5qpnELn8>

That was dated a _year_ ago, so we've known this for quite a long time
o The Type II apologists are a year behind on these facts

And the Type III (e.g., Jolly Roger, Lewis, Joerg, Alan Baker, et al.)
o Will _never_ catch up to the facts.
--
Apple's strategy is to remove basic functionality so you will buy it back.

[Arlen Holder]

On Wed, 09 Dec 2020 18:23:29 -0500, nospam wrote:

> it's a non-issue for nearly everyone.

It's interesting that nospam claims it's a "non issue" that your iPhone 12
warranty may be voided if you do NOT use the charger Apple says you must.

The charger you must use, to maintain your warranty is not the charger that
Apple doesn't ship in the box.

But Apple will argue all you need is the overpriced charger that Apple
sells, at extra cost, on the already overpriced phones, right _next_ to the
box.

They void your warranty if you do NOT buy their overpriced charger!
o Now that's MARKETING!

[Arlen Holder]

On Wed, 9 Dec 2020 23:34:58 -0000 (UTC), Lewis wrote:

> That word doesn't mean what you apparently think it means. Chargers aer
> *everywhere*. You don't even need to buy them if you live in the right
> area.

Lewis is a type III apologist...

So he's completely clueless that Apple can easily void your warranty...

Unless you buy the overpriced charger _outside_ the box!
--
Now that's MARKETING!

[nospam]

In article <rqrpdg$tdk$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen Holder

<arlen_...@newmachines.com> wrote:

> warranty may be voided if you do NOT use the charger Apple says you must.

bullshit.

[Arlen Holder]

On Wed, 09 Dec 2020 19:30:02 -0500, nospam wrote:

>> warranty may be voided if you do NOT use the charger Apple says you must.
>
> bullshit.

Hi nospam,

*It's about losing your entire expensive iPhone warranty, nospam.*
o *What's your proof that Apple will honor the iPhone 12 warranty, nospam?*

Brazil _asked_ Apple, nospam; and they said Apple _responded_ already.
o Brazil clearly said Apple said they will NOT HONOR your warranty, nospam.
--
These apologists are always fabricating claims they even can't back up.

[Arlen Holder]

On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 01:05:18 -0000 (UTC), Matt wrote:

> They bought a Sony Xperia 5 II which is impressive (and bring back a
> 3,5mm Jack port after removing from previous Xperias. How funny!) :)

Hi Matt,

You seem like a logical person (i.e., you don't seem to be an apologist).

So you can fathom the amount of detail we put into this thread
o When nospam made his infantile claims Android phones don't have jacks

o How many of the existing Android phones lack headphone jack basic hardware functionality
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.mobile.android/ZjnD2kAf-mI>

It turns out less than half a percent of Android devices don't have them.
o And yet, _none_ of the latest iPhones have them.

Apple removes basic functionality so that they can then sell it back!
o At extremely high profit margins, no less!

Now that's great MARKETING!
o You can't make those ungodly profits off of intelligent consumers.
--
Apple removes basic functionality so that they can then sell it back.

[Arlen Holder]

On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 01:07:12 -0000 (UTC), Matt wrote:

>> it's a non-issue for nearly everyone.
>

> I have to say congratulations! From "everyone" you moved forward to
> "nearly"!

How many people know, even in the USA, that their iPhone warranty is void?

[Lewis]

You know of the before times?

--
sometimes ascii is the best use of bandwidth... Tonya Engst

[Lewis]

In message <rqrsc0$7h0$5...@dont-email.me> Matt <ma...@lv426.eu.invalid> wrote:
> On jeu. 10 décembre 2020 (00:23),

> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>> it's a non-issue for nearly everyone.

> I have to say congratulations! From "everyone" you moved forward to
> "nearly"!

Maybe your language skills need some refining.

"Everyone" does not actually mean every single person on the planet. If
you say "Oh, I know everyone in that town" it does not actually mean,
and no one expects that it means, that you literally know every single
person in the town.

"Everyone has charges" is a true statement because the vast and
overwhelming majority of everyone has chargers. It is nearly impossible
to be alive in 2020 and not only have chargers, but have TOO MANY
chargers.

There is no shortage of chargers, there is no scarcity of chargers, it is
wasteful to include a charger with everything you buy, and it leads to
a whole lot of unused chargers.

Oh no, 0.001% of purchasers maybe have no way to charge their phone
without buying a charger. How tragic. That doesn't require providing
100,000 people with unwanted and unused chargers just for the one
person.

--
Everything you say is so boring, I replace it with dubstep.

[Arlen Holder]

On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 04:59:33 -0000 (UTC), Lewis wrote:

> "Everyone has charges" is a true statement because the vast and
> overwhelming majority of everyone has chargers. It is nearly impossible
> to be alive in 2020 and not only have chargers, but have TOO MANY
> chargers.

Everyone has chargers perhaps...

But the Brazilian's point is that nobody has a valid iPhone 12 warranty.

[sms]

On 12/9/2020 4:59 PM, Matt wrote:
> On mer. 09 décembre 2020 (23:50),

> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>> I think that Apple really wants to encourage users to move 100%
>> wireless, with wireless charging and wireless headphones (preferably all
>> from Apple!). I would not be surprised if the next port to disappear
>> from iPhones is the Lightning port, maybe not on the iPhone 13 or 14,
>> but by the 15 or 16.
>

> I think so. Wireless is great but not nowadays.

Everyone keeps hoping that Apple will follow their own example, that
they have done on the Macbook and iPad, and move to USB-C for the iPhone
as well.

I really like wireless charging on my phones, it's more convenient,
extends battery life, and since the major point of failure of phones are
connectors, minimizing the use of the power connector is a good idea.

[nospam]

In article <rqtib3$rfb$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

>
> Everyone keeps hoping that Apple will follow their own example, that
> they have done on the Macbook and iPad, and move to USB-C for the iPhone
> as well.

yesterday you said apple was going to remove the port entirely and go
strictly wireless. today you say usb-c. which is it?

and no, not everyone hopes that apple switch to usb-c. in fact, very
few people do.

> I really like wireless charging on my phones, it's more convenient,
> extends battery life, and since the major point of failure of phones are
> connectors, minimizing the use of the power connector is a good idea.

wireless charging may be more convenient, but it actually *reduces*
battery life due to heat. it's also less efficient.

[Arlen Holder]

On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 11:53:12 -0500, nospam wrote:

> yesterday you said apple was going to remove the port entirely and go
> strictly wireless. today you say usb-c. which is it?

Hi nospam,

Apple essentially removed the warranty from the iPhone 12 box, nospam.

Despite your desperate attempts to deflect, the key point to be taken is:
o *Apple adamantly _refuses_ to honor its iPhone 12 warranty*
if you use a charger that is not their expensive extra-cost charger
(according to Brazilian authorities, who are in contact with Apple)

*The fact Apple will void your warranty is why the Brazilians matter.*
o *Essentially, every iPhone 12 owner has absolutely no warranty*...

Unless they _purchase_ at their expense what Apple removed from the box!
o Apple essentially removed the warranty from the iPhone 12 box, nospam.

You're _different_ than the other two types of apologists.
o You actually comprehend facts - even as you defend MARKETING to the
death.

Just to be clear, some analysts _predicted_ the loss of the port a year ago
o Whether Apple also removes that basic functionality remains to be seen.

o Apple is killing the charging plug on its highest-end phones by 2021, top analyst predicts

<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/NXl5qpnELn8>

> and no, not everyone hopes that apple switch to usb-c. in fact, very
> few people do.

I have to hand it to Apple for designing a decent connector
o Which goes in both ways, and which is robust itself
(the typical lack of strain relief on the wires being something else)

Yet, now with USB-C being nearly ubiquitous, I'd be glad to see Lightning
go the way of the dodo bird (and you know I have plenty of iOS devices).

For one thing, USB-C cables are extremely easily found in ten foot lengths
o And they're less expensive since no royalties are paid to Apple for them

>> I really like wireless charging on my phones, it's more convenient,
>> extends battery life, and since the major point of failure of phones are
>> connectors, minimizing the use of the power connector is a good idea.
>
> wireless charging may be more convenient, but it actually *reduces*
> battery life due to heat. it's also less efficient.

Again, you seem to know the facts, nospam, which I appreciate
o Steve (sms) is a Type II apologist; he doesn't ever doublecheck his facts

While wireless charging _is_ convenient, you're correct drawbacks exist
o Personally I _love_ fast charging; but it has similar drawbacks

Slow and steady is the best thing, IMHO, if you have the time that is...
o Particularly given iPhone batteries are atrocious in terms of reliability
--
Apple prematurely replaced 11 million of them in just one year alone!

[Lewis]

In message <rqtib3$rfb$1...@dont-email.me> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
> On 12/9/2020 4:59 PM, Matt wrote:
>> On mer. 09 décembre 2020 (23:50),
>> sms <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I think that Apple really wants to encourage users to move 100%
>>> wireless, with wireless charging and wireless headphones (preferably all
>>> from Apple!). I would not be surprised if the next port to disappear
>>> from iPhones is the Lightning port, maybe not on the iPhone 13 or 14,
>>> but by the 15 or 16.
>>
>> I think so. Wireless is great but not nowadays.

> Everyone keeps hoping that Apple will follow their own example, that
> they have done on the Macbook and iPad, and move to USB-C for the iPhone
> as well.

They have no reason to and the lightning port is smaller than USB-C.

--
Let there be songs to fill the air

[nospam]

In article <slrnrt4trb....@promini.local>, Lewis

<g.k...@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:

>
> > Everyone keeps hoping that Apple will follow their own example, that
> > they have done on the Macbook and iPad, and move to USB-C for the iPhone
> > as well.
>
> They have no reason to and the lightning port is smaller than USB-C.

lightning is also significantly more reliable and has a *huge* existing
ecosystem.

[Arlen Holder]

On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 19:30:52 -0000 (UTC), Lewis wrote:

> They have no reason to and the lightning port is smaller than USB-C.

*Essentially, the iPhone 12 warranty is no longer included in the box*

Only apologists defend Apple's (rather brilliant) MARKETING subterfuges.
o Nobody who own a "normal" brain is defending Apple's loss of functionality

The main topic of this thread, as posted by sms, is loss of functionality:
1. *Apple will void your iPhone 12 warranty unless you buy the new charger*
(essentially, that's the argument of the Brazilian authorities)
2. *Apple, like it or not, must include _wired_ hands-free accessories*
(essentially, that's the argument of the Brazilian authorities)

*Essentially, the iPhone 12 warranty is no longer included in the box*
o Except in Brazil (according to the Brazilian authorities)

None of the apologists like these laws...
o Probably everyone else on the planet loves them.

It's just more proof that apologists are not like normal people.

Moving on to Lewis' topic, while the apologists will defend Apple MARKETING
decisions to the death... There's no advantage to the lightning port now
that USB-C is ubiquitious (IMHO).

Sure, nospam claims the pins are on the outside, rather than the inside
o But the _real_ reason for the non-proprietary cable is clear to adults

Apple makes tons of money off the non-proprietary lightning cable.
o It's really that simple (IMHO).

Nonethless, I have _plenty_ of Android & iOS devices, where I'd love
all my new devices to be USB-C since it's ubiquitous, cheap, & functional.

That's because I'm normal - and not an apologist.
--
Only apologists defend Apple's (rather brilliant) MARKETING subterfuges.

[Arlen Holder]

On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 14:38:40 -0500, nospam wrote:

>> They have no reason to and the lightning port is smaller than USB-C.
>
> lightning is also significantly more reliable and has a *huge* existing
> ecosystem.

Hi nospam,

Why is it that _only_ apologists defend Apple's non-proprietary cabling?

And why is it that only apologists don't realize there is no longer a valid
iPhone 12 warranty (except, apparently, in Brazil) unless you purchase an
additional (separate) charger from Apple?

Apple _removes_ functionality so that the consumer has to buy it back.
--
All normal people recognize the non-proprietary Apple cables for what they
are, which is (an admittedly brilliant) MARKETING scam on Apple consumers.

[Arlen Holder]

On Thu, 10 Dec 2020 22:04:52 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> The main topic of this thread, as posted by sms, is loss of functionality:
> 1. *Apple will void your iPhone 12 warranty unless you buy the new charger*
> (essentially, that's the argument of the Brazilian authorities)
> 2. *Apple, like it or not, must include _wired_ hands-free accessories*
> (essentially, that's the argument of the Brazilian authorities)

French, not Brazilian... as in...

The main topic of this thread, as posted by sms, is loss of functionality:
1. *Apple will void your iPhone 12 warranty unless you buy the new charger*
(essentially, that's the argument of the Brazilian authorities)
2. *Apple, like it or not, must include _wired_ hands-free accessories*

(essentially, that's the argument of the _French_ authorities)
--
Nobody normal is defending Apple's sleazy moves; just the apologists are.

[Chris]

IME the biggest point of failure in any phone is being dropped by the user.
Only on a couple of very old android phones have I heard of unreliable (not
broken) connectors.

>
>

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 11 Dec 2020 14:11:17 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:

> IME the biggest point of failure in any phone is being dropped by the user.
> Only on a couple of very old android phones have I heard of unreliable (not
> broken) connectors.

Apple removes basic functionality so that you must purchase it back.

It's well known on the Android newsgroups that my Samsung Galaxy S3 lasted
for over five years, where for the last few years, the port was kaput.

Luckily I had multiple wall-wort external battery chargers, which even then
was basic functionality unheard of in the Apple world (as always, Apple
products lack even the most basic functionality specifically so that Apple
can profit from its (admittedly loyal, yet extremely gullible) customers.

These $20 externally charged batteries even had the NFC antenna built in.

One of the $20 external batteries was 7,000 mAh, which was a pleasure,
particularly since the case had to be changed, and it cost $1 (which was
documented at that time as I bought a handful of $1 cases which worked
great, one for each battery size I bought).

iPhone owners just cry for that type of basic functionality they lack.
--
Apple removes basic functionality so that you must purchase it back.