Who are the Apple Apologists on this ng?

[Arlen Holder]

*These are the key Apple Apologists*
- Alan Baker
- Tim Streater
- Alan Browne
- Jolly Roger
- BKatOnRamp
- Lewis
- Savageduck
- nospam
- Hemidactylus
- Your Name
etc.

[Alan Baker]

On 2018-10-05 8:59 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> *These are the key Apple Apologists*

Whereby "apologist" you clearly mean "people who argue the facts with me".

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 21:04:17 -0700, Alan Baker wrote:

> Whereby "apologist" you clearly mean "people who argue the facts with me".

Hehhehhehh... I only speak facts.

Adults comprehend facts.
Both adults and facts are funny that way.

You're the one who can't comprehend those facts.

[Alan Baker]

On 2018-10-05 9:26 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 21:04:17 -0700, Alan Baker wrote:
>
>> Whereby "apologist" you clearly mean "people who argue the facts with me".
>
> Hehhehhehh... I only speak facts.

No... ...you don't.

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 21:26:33 -0700, Alan Baker wrote:

>> Hehhehhehh... I only speak facts.
>
> No... ...you don't.

The Apple Apologists have no defense against facts.

[Alan Baker]

Since you never present any facts...

...and snip those presented in rebuttal...

...how would you know?

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 21:28:37 -0700, Alan Baker wrote:

> Since you never present any facts...
>
> ...and snip those presented in rebuttal...
>
> ...how would you know?

Read this...
What are the common well-verified psychological traits of the Apple Apologists on this newsgroup?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/18ARDsEOPzM/veU8FwAjBQAJ>

Click on the proof supplied in that thread (yes, Alan, click on the links).
Then _read_ what is said in those links (yes, Alan, it requires a brain).

Come back to us _after_ you've comprehended those facts.

[Alan Baker]

Nope.

I'm not going to read another of your screeds.

You never actually present facts. You make assertions and pretend those
are facts.

[Savageduck]

On Oct 5, 2018, Alan Baker wrote
(in article <pp9c5m$fho$1...@gioia.aioe.org>):

> On 2018-10-05 8:59 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> > *These are the key Apple Apologists*
>
> Whereby "apologist" you clearly mean "people who argue the facts with me".

People who argue the facts with him, perhaps. However,months ago I stopped
responding directly to any of his posts which I might see. There is little
point in engaging him in any way. I do respond to folks who have responded in
some of his threads, as I have with this responce, and he might erroneously
believe that I was addressing him and his “facts”.

These days he seems to be talking to himself, and as far as I am concerned he
can stew in his biased ignorance along with his “facts".

--
Regards,
Savageduck

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 05 Oct 2018 21:47:52 -0700, Savageduck wrote:

> People who argue the facts with him, perhaps.

This is dead wrong - but - you're a long-ago proven Apple Apologist.
So what else did you expect from those dozen children on this newsgroup.
Savageduck yet again proves he possesses the mind of a child
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.sys.mac.system/AxDiTgaej0k/jh0R7CgxBQAJ>

I only speak facts.
*Adults don't "argue facts", since facts are funny that way.*

*Only Apple Apologists "argue facts"; actual adults _comprehend_ facts.*

Big difference.
_Apple Apologists have no defense against facts._

For example, read this thread, (comprehend the facts), for proof:
Why do Apple Apologists deny facts & habitually fabricate imaginary content?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/eRTC23FyVDY/fDk0k8KAAwAJ>

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 21:36:56 -0700, Alan Baker wrote:

> I'm not going to read another of your screeds.
>
> You never actually present facts. You make assertions and pretend those
> are facts.

One reason you're an Apple Apologists is you refuse to comprehend facts.

For example: you were apparently an Internet Stalker since at least 2008:
Alan Baker, My Creepy Internet Stalker!
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.sys.mac.system/5xL1VOhTnR8/kDG3OnGUGFYJ>

But being an Internet Creep is not what defines an Apple Apologists.
Proof that all the Apple Apologists can do - is play silly games all day, every day
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/JQjeRqM57pY/IMppgFX7CgAJ>

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 6 Oct 2018 07:45:22 -0400, Meanie wrote:

> You do realize when you feed an ass his daily morsel and he continuously
> returns for more.
>
> Stop feeding the attention starved ass and he'll eventually leave.

Hi Meanie,
This isn't my first rodeo with the Apple Apologists over the decades.

Long ago I first ran into the incessantly childish antics of the Apple
Apologists when I first interfaced the Mac to SunOS/Solaris (along with
Windows) years ago, (using CAP, Samba, & SMB) ... anyone remember "resource
& data forks"?)

At that time more than a decade ago, the Apple Apologists sent unsuspecting
users on wild-goose chases (as they still do today), constantly and
brazenly fabricating imaginary functionality that never existed.

I wondered why Apple posters to the Mac groups were so strange then, but it
wasn't until I bought my many iPods & my first iPhones & iPads, that I
realized what was so different about Apple Apologists from normal adults.
Why do Apple Apologists lie so much about iOS capabilities?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/98CPbQfNTV8%5B1-25%5D>

BTW, the term "Apple Apologist" is well entrenched, as you are aware,
since the type of person who becomes an Apple Apologist gravitates to the
marketing messages that Apple carefully crafts for their users:
Confessions of an Apple Apologist
<https://www.bgr.in/news/confessions-of-an-apple-apologist-the-iphone-6-disappoints/>

The latest Apple Apologist meme
<https://betanews.com/2011/11/15/the-latest-apple-apologist-meme-the-post-spec-era/>

MacRumors: Apple Apologists
<https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/apologists.2093606/>

The Age of the Apple iPhone Apologists
<https://medium.com/@marcusbird/the-age-of-the-iphone-apologists-f3ca5b5ad781>

I hate to sound like an Apple Apologist, but...
<https://betanews.com/2013/10/31/i-hate-to-sound-like-an-apple-apologist-but/>

Truth: Not From An Apple Apologist
<https://www.jtsblog.com/category/not-an-apple-apologist/>

For all you Apple apologists...
<https://www.northeastshooters.com/xen/threads/for-all-you-apple-apologists.108480/>

MacRumors: To all the Apple apologists...
<https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/to-all-the-apple-apologist-on-big-screens.1774672/>

etc.

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 21:36:56 -0700, Alan Baker wrote:

> Nope.
>
> I'm not going to read another of your screeds.
>
> You never actually present facts. You make assertions and pretend those
> are facts.

Since Apple Apologists act like children, these cartoons are apropos:

*MacPowerUsers: The funny side of being an Apple Apologist*
<https://talk.macpowerusers.com/t/the-funny-side-of-being-an-apple-apologist/8190>

[Alan Browne]

On 2018-10-06 07:45, Meanie wrote:

> You do realize when you feed an ass his daily morsel and he continuously
> returns for more.
>
> Stop feeding the attention starved ass and he'll eventually leave.

+10

--
"2/3 of Donald Trump's wives were immigrants. Proof that we
need immigrants to do jobs that most Americans wouldn't do."
- unknown protester

[Elden]

On 2018-10-06, Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
> These days he seems to be talking to himself, and as far as I am
> concerned he can stew in his biased ignorance along with his
> “facts".

As I read this I could imagine him crapping his pants and continuing to
sit in it. That's what that smell is.

--
-=Elden=-

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 06 Oct 2018 11:01:40 -0500, Elden wrote:

> As I read this I could imagine him crapping his pants and continuing to
> sit in it. That's what that smell is.

Apple Apologists always prove to have the mindset of a fifth grader.

*Elden actually believes the incessant "crap jokes" ... are hilarious.*

See MacRumors' forum definition of the canonical Apple Apologist:
<https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/apologists.2093606/>

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 6 Oct 2018 11:22:03 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:

> +10

*Apple Apologists "rebuttals" are as predictable as those of children.*

Notice that the Apple Apologists have utterly no defense against facts.

Apple Apologists' *"rebuttals are exhausting for being so predictable"*
<https://betanews.com/2013/10/31/i-hate-to-sound-like-an-apple-apologist-but/>

*Apple Apologists "rebuttals" are as predictable as those of children.*

[*Hemidactylus*]

Meanie <M...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/6/2018 12:26 AM, Alan Baker wrote:

> You do realize when you feed an ass his daily morsel and he continuously
> returns for more.
>
> Stop feeding the attention starved ass and he'll eventually leave.
>

I doubt it. The monomanic obsession is strong with this one. He would
probably continue to post anti-Apple screeds if he were the only person
left on usenet.

[*Hemidactylus*]

Children can comprehend facts. And some adults have greater lack of
capacity for comprehension than others. Some topics are beyond the
comprehension of non-specialists in a field of knowledge. Your polemics
betray a lack of knowledge or comprehension of basic epistemology.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 06 Oct 2018 12:56:55 -0500, *Hemidactylus* wrote:

> I doubt it. The monomanic obsession is strong with this one. He would
> probably continue to post anti-Apple screeds if he were the only person
> left on usenet.

*It's only the Apple newsgroups children like you infest, Hemidactylus.*

Notice I just posted this adult topic, on the Windows 10 newsgroup:
How can we IMPROVE the efficiency of the Windows left-side desktop pane?
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=3777202desktop.jpg>
(It was posted minutes ago so it doesn't have an archival link yet.)

And this adult topic on the Android newsgroups, just recently:
What are the common settings to change on an Android 7.0 Nougat phone for privacy?
<https://comp.mobile.android.narkive.com/BDqMsCeh/what-are-the-common-settings-to-change-on-an-android-7-0-nougat-phone-for-privacy>

It's only the Apple-related newsgroups you dozen Apple Apologists infest,
that are filled to the brim with your childish drivel that I respond to by
proving all you _can_ do, Hemidactylus, is spout your worthless fifth-grade
childish rants.

*The dozen Apple Apologists are not normal adults (they act like children)*

[Alan Baker]

I've noted that those who use "adult" over and over in describing
themselves are almost never...

...very adult.

:-)

[Alan Baker]

On 2018-10-06 5:42 AM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Fri, 5 Oct 2018 21:36:56 -0700, Alan Baker wrote:
>
>> I'm not going to read another of your screeds.
>>
>> You never actually present facts. You make assertions and pretend those
>> are facts.
>
> One reason you're an Apple Apologists is you refuse to comprehend facts.
>
> For example: you were apparently an Internet Stalker since at least 2008:
> Alan Baker, My Creepy Internet Stalker!
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.sys.mac.system/5xL1VOhTnR8/kDG3OnGUGFYJ>

No. See: that is not a fact.

That some troll posted a message with that subject is proof of nothing.

:-)

[Alan Baker]

On 2018-10-06 4:45 AM, Meanie wrote:
> On 10/6/2018 12:26 AM, Alan Baker wrote:

> You do realize when you feed an ass his daily morsel and he continuously
> returns for more.
>
> Stop feeding the attention starved ass and he'll eventually leave.

No. He won't.

So I might as well get some amusement from it.

:-)_

[Alan Baker]

That shows a group of people able to laugh at themselves, "Arlen":

'About the (Comic) Stripper
25 Thing About Me.

1. I hated math. I failed Algebra twice in high school and once in college.

2. I have the most awesomous wife ever. She’s a CPA and likes math. Go
fig. (She also says I make up words…like awesomous.)

3. My wife and I are complete opposites. We laugh about it a lot.

4. I have never been on any type of sports team. Ever.

5. My parents almost gave me one of my paternal grandfather’s names.
Either Roland or Otto. Not kidding.

6. I lived in Hawaii for 3 years.

7. I have a BA in Graphic Design and a Master’s Degree in Christian
Education.

8. I’ve never owned a Window’s PC."

<http://www.drawncloser.com/about-the-artist/>


What a pity you're not "adult" enough to do the same...

:-)

[Alan Baker]

On 2018-10-06 5:33 AM, Arlen Holder wrote:

> On Fri, 05 Oct 2018 21:47:52 -0700, Savageduck wrote:
>
>> People who argue the facts with him, perhaps.
>
> This is dead wrong - but - you're a long-ago proven Apple Apologist.
> So what else did you expect from those dozen children on this newsgroup.
> Savageduck yet again proves he possesses the mind of a child
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.sys.mac.system/AxDiTgaej0k/jh0R7CgxBQAJ>
>
> I only speak facts.

No. I know for a fact that you do not only speak facts.

> *Adults don't "argue facts", since facts are funny that way.*

And to "argue the facts with someone" is not to argue AGAINST the facts,
but rather to argue about whether or not the things that someone has
said are actually facts.

Happy to help.

:-)

[Alan Baker]

On 2018-10-06 9:42 AM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Sat, 06 Oct 2018 11:01:40 -0500, Elden wrote:
>
>> As I read this I could imagine him crapping his pants and continuing to
>> sit in it. That's what that smell is.
>
> Apple Apologists always prove to have the mindset of a fifth grader.
>
> *Elden actually believes the incessant "crap jokes" ... are hilarious.*

See: that is not a fact.

So when you said "I speak only facts", you were lying.

Happy to help.

:-)

[Alan Baker]

On 2018-10-06 9:42 AM, Arlen Holder wrote:

> On Sat, 6 Oct 2018 11:22:03 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
>
>> +10
>
> *Apple Apologists "rebuttals" are as predictable as those of children.*

Alan Browne's statement was in no way a rebuttal, so once again: you are
not "only speak[ing] facts", are you?

Happy to help.

:-)

[Wolffan]

On 06 Oct 2018, Meanie wrote
(in article <ppa7dk$q7l$1...@dont-email.me>):

> On 10/6/2018 12:26 AM, Alan Baker wrote:

> You do realize when you feed an ass his daily morsel and he continuously
> returns for more.
>
> Stop feeding the attention starved ass and he'll eventually leave.

I don’t think so. He has an obsession with Apple and will keep on posting
so long as Apple exists, whether anyone replies to him or not. He is that
unstable.

[B...@onramp.net]

On Sat, 06 Oct 2018 18:02:14 -0400, Wolffan <akwo...@zoho.com>
wrote:

Why should we have to endure his crap? I've kill filed him at least 5
times and will continue to do just that. In the meantime we all are at
the mercy of those whose posts we always read ... they respond and we
see his idiocy. Everyone should kill file him and keep doing it.
Please.

[Alan Browne]

On 2018-10-06 18:02, Wolffan wrote:
> On 06 Oct 2018, Meanie wrote

>> Stop feeding the attention starved ass and he'll eventually leave.
>
> I don’t think so. He has an obsession with Apple and will keep on posting
> so long as Apple exists, whether anyone replies to him or not. He is that
> unstable.

Better to test the "do not reply" theory than the "it doesn't matter theory.

[Savageduck]

<B...@Onramp.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 06 Oct 2018 18:02:14 -0400,

> Why should we have to endure his crap? I've kill filed him at least 5
> times

Only 5 times!!

>



--

Regards,
Savageduck

[B...@onramp.net]

On Sat, 06 Oct 2018 19:06:33 -0500, Savageduck
<savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

><B...@Onramp.net> wrote:
>> On Sat, 06 Oct 2018 18:02:14 -0400,
>
>
>> Why should we have to endure his crap? I've kill filed him at least 5
>> times
>
>Only 5 times!!
>

Typographical error. Should be 55 times.
:-)

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 6 Oct 2018 03:59:41 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> *These are the key Apple Apologists*

> - Alan Baker
> - Tim Streater
> - Alan Browne
> - Jolly Roger
> - BKatOnRamp
> - Lewis
> - Savageduck
> - nospam
> - Hemidactylus
> - Your Name
> etc.

As proof, Hemidactylus just posted a _classic_ Apple Apologist rant:
a. Because facts just don't exist in the Apologists belief system
b. He brazenly fabricated wholly imaginary iOS functionality
And then...
c. After claiming imaginary functionality, he immediately stuck his head in the sand
d. So that he could make his imaginary claim & ignore facts to the contrary

Proof here of this classic Apple Apologist move by Hemidactylus just now:
<https://misc.phone.mobile.iphone.narkive.com/jK6r8OfO/name-a-single-ios-app-functionality-that-you-can-get-for-a-buck-that-isn-t-already-on-android-for>
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/aUyeuaPI9pc/AyrH05sPBAAJ>

[Alan Baker]

On 2018-10-07 1:36 AM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Sat, 6 Oct 2018 03:59:41 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:
>
>> *These are the key Apple Apologists*
>> - Alan Baker
>> - Tim Streater
>> - Alan Browne
>> - Jolly Roger
>> - BKatOnRamp
>> - Lewis
>> - Savageduck
>> - nospam
>> - Hemidactylus
>> - Your Name
>> etc.
>
> As proof, Hemidactylus just posted a _classic_ Apple Apologist rant:

He posted no rant of any kind, so that's not a fact.

> a. Because facts just don't exist in the Apologists belief system

That is not a fact either.

> b. He brazenly fabricated wholly imaginary iOS functionality

Quote and URL, please.

> And then...
> c. After claiming imaginary functionality, he immediately stuck his head in the sand

I saw no such claim in the thread below, so also not a fact.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sun, 7 Oct 2018 09:30:24 -0700, Alan Baker wrote:

> Quote and URL, please.

The very post that the Apple Apologist Alan Baker is asking for a "quote
and URL", contains the URL that points directly to the very quote.

Jesus... Seriously.

The Apple Apologist Alan Baker proves to not comprehend facts:
a. Hemidactylus brazenly fabricated imaginary iOS functionality
b. And then Hemidactylus clearly said he didn't want to see facts

And then...
c. Alan Baker proves he can't even _comprehend_ the URL & quote!

Classic.

I don't need to prove Alan Baker & Hemidactylus are Apple Apologists.
They prove it themselves,

[Alan Baker]

On 2018-10-07 10:00 AM, Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Sun, 7 Oct 2018 09:30:24 -0700, Alan Baker wrote:
>
>> Quote and URL, please.
>
> The very post that the Apple Apologist Alan Baker is asking for a "quote
> and URL", contains the URL that points directly to the very quote.

So then let's see the quote.

And try replying to my original post with all the context restored which
makes it very clear that your post to which I was replying was ambiguous
at best with regard to which posts of Hemidactylus you were referring in
each paragraph.

[*Hemidactylus*]

Meanie <M...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/7/2018 1:10 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
>>
[snip]

>>
>> And try replying to my original post with all the context restored which
>> makes it very clear that your post to which I was replying was ambiguous
>> at best with regard to which posts of Hemidactylus you were referring in
>> each paragraph.
>

> I'm certain you don't give a damn what I have to say but continuing to
> play with the ass will result in others kill-filing you as well.
>
> Just my .02
>
Can you filter content by keyword?

[Savageduck]

On Oct 7, 2018, Hemidactylus* wrote
(in article<9qadnY_405Jo_CfG...@giganews.com>):

Just kill the thread. It has no value.

--
Regards,
Savageduck

[Alan Browne]

Depends on the newsreader. Usually they filter per header elements like
name, e-mail, subject contains a keyword and so on. Custom filters can
be added to look at specific header lines in some newsreaders.

[Savageduck]

On Oct 7, 2018, Alan Browne wrote
(in article<keqdnSe_h9W56yfG...@giganews.com>):

> On 2018-10-07 15:43, *Hemidactylus* wrote:
> > Meanie <M...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On 10/7/2018 1:10 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
> > [snip]
> > > >
> > > > And try replying to my original post with all the context restored which
> > > > makes it very clear that your post to which I was replying was ambiguous
> > > > at best with regard to which posts of Hemidactylus you were referring in
> > > > each paragraph.
> > >
> > > I'm certain you don't give a damn what I have to say but continuing to
> > > play with the ass will result in others kill-filing you as well.
> > >
> > > Just my .02
> > Can you filter content by keyword?
>
> Depends on the newsreader. Usually they filter per header elements like
> name, e-mail, subject contains a keyword and so on. Custom filters can
> be added to look at specific header lines in some newsreaders.

Yup!

With Hogwasher I have simple options to erase individual messages, or kill
individual, or batches of messages with a *Kill Subject, Author, Thread, or
Series* command from a right click.

Then there are the more powerful filters/rules which address criteria for
Author, Subject, Message-ID, Xref, References, Score, NG Count, contents of
message body, NewsGroups, Path, Organization, User-Agent, X-Usenet-Provider.
Those can have any number of actions applied.

--
Regards,
Savageduck

[*Hemidactylus*]

Alan Browne <bitb...@blackhole.com> wrote:
> On 2018-10-07 15:43, *Hemidactylus* wrote:
>> Meanie <M...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 10/7/2018 1:10 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
>>>>
>> [snip]
>>>>
>>>> And try replying to my original post with all the context restored which
>>>> makes it very clear that your post to which I was replying was ambiguous
>>>> at best with regard to which posts of Hemidactylus you were referring in
>>>> each paragraph.
>>>
>>> I'm certain you don't give a damn what I have to say but continuing to
>>> play with the ass will result in others kill-filing you as well.
>>>
>>> Just my .02
>>>
>> Can you filter content by keyword?
>
> Depends on the newsreader. Usually they filter per header elements like
> name, e-mail, subject contains a keyword and so on. Custom filters can
> be added to look at specific header lines in some newsreaders.
>

I can filter content by keyword, but in my experience it brings my feed
down to a mere trickle, given how regulars will respond secondarily without
snipping the offending content. Threadkilling per Savageduck is an option
too.

[Alan Baker]

On 2018-10-07 12:02 PM, Meanie wrote:
> On 10/7/2018 1:10 PM, Alan Baker wrote:

> I'm certain you don't give a damn what I have to say but continuing to
> play with the ass will result in others kill-filing you as well.
>
> Just my .02

Why not just set up better filters?

[Jim Gibson]

In article <ppb4rr$1b7v$3...@gioia.aioe.org>, Alan Baker <nu...@ness.biz>
wrote:

Then you can join Mr. Holder in my kill file.

Stop thinking only of yourself and consider the rest of us. We do not
want to see Holder's posts, and we do not want to see any replies,
either.

--
Jim Gibson

[Alan Baker]

Stop expecting others to make your life easier.

Use the right tools, and you can have your cake and eat it too.

:-)

[Arlen Holder]

On Sun, 07 Oct 2018 15:47:44 -0700, Jim Gibson wrote:

> Then you can join Mr. Holder in my kill file.
>
> Stop thinking only of yourself and consider the rest of us. We do not
> want to see Holder's posts, and we do not want to see any replies,
> either.

Hi Jim Gibson,
1. I already stopped responding to Alan Baker's drivel, since my main
point is and was _always_ the same, which is to prove that the dozen
Apple Apologists who infest this ng aren't like normal adults.
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/18ARDsEOPzM/veU8FwAjBQAJ>

2. As for you, Mr. Gibson, you're welcome (and encouraged) to killfile
anyone who has actual facts about iOS, since I'm the one historically
who breathes life-sustaining truth into this newsgroup, to wit:
o I broke the news (and solution) for _all_ the Apple fiascos
o I counter with fact incessant fabrications of fictional functionality
o I provide truthful factual accurate technical information always
(e.g., DXOmark scores, app functionality, hw comparisons, etc.)

The dozen Apple Apologists are the antithesis of truth & fact:
<https://misc.phone.mobile.iphone.narkive.com/dU3w6P1E/who-are-the-apple-apologists-on-this-ng>

This being an Apple ng, it's not surprising that you wish to block facts a
priori from ever showing up in your inbox.

I work differently than you do, Jim Gibson, as I work a posteriori.

That's why I only speak facts about Apple products & capabilities.
Adults never have a problem with facts since that's the nature of facts.

Facts are funny that way.
Adults are funny that way.

This thread is merely here to outline the fact of who is an Apologist here,
where, Alan Baker is almost as canonical as is nospam & Jolly Roger (where
each is only slightly different in their incessant childish drivel).

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 6 Oct 2018 03:59:41 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> *These are the key Apple Apologists*

> - Lewis
> etc.

You have to see this _classic_ Apple Apologist set of _excuses_ today!
How do I redownload and reinstall an older version of iOS app into my iPhone 4S?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/56nEgAZIjGk/YENXXP3gBAAJ>

What happened is that a user, Ant, was screwed by the iTunes abomination.
That user Ant expected the functionality on _all_ other platforms but iOS.

When that user, Ant, found out that iTunes screwed him royally, the
Apple Apologist Lewis ranted on with _excuses_ for iTunes' bad behavior.

Never once did the Apple Apologist Lewis mention that _every_ other
consumer platform enables this basic and trivially simple functionality.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 6 Oct 2018 03:59:41 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> - BKatOnRamp

BK@OnRamp just _proved_ he's an ignorant Apple Apologist just now.
He denies facts that everyone intelligent _knows_ to be true.
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/lG4eI7QeEbw/6Z06RrLJAgAJ>

He's a classic ignorant Apple Apologist head-in-the-sand fact-free dolt.
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/lG4eI7QeEbw/EzuDihHLAgAJ>

*Actual facts have no place to fit in the Apple Apologists' belief system.*

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 6 Oct 2018 03:59:41 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> - Savageduck

Savageduck just proved, yet again, he's a classic Apple Apologist!
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/56nEgAZIjGk/beeRSUjBAgAJ>

The propensity of the Apple Apologist to "just guess" is what makes them
wrong so many times since facts have no place to fit in their imaginary
belief system.

*The monkey has a better credibility than Savageduck has with facts.*

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 6 Oct 2018 03:59:41 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> *These are the key Apple Apologists*

We need to add Meanie to this list, where the _proof_ of his imbecilic mind
is here, in spades, which any cognizant adult will recognize instantly.
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/lG4eI7QeEbw/rpICAHtrAwAJ>

Apple Apologists _prove_ by their own words, to own the mind of a child.

[Arlen Holder]

This thread is _perfect_ proving exactly how _stupid_ Apple Apologists are!
<https://misc.phone.mobile.iphone.narkive.com/26HhpfRQ/ios-12-0-1>
o *Chris in Makati* -> From: Chris in Makati <ma...@nospam.com>
o *BK@onRamp* -> From: B...@Onramp.net
o *Meanie* -> From: Meanie <M...@gmail.com>
o *Your Name* -> From: Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com>
o *Hemidactylus* -> From: Hemidactylus <ecph...@allspamis.invalid>

That thread contained trivial facts.
Easily proven facts.
Really _simple_ facts.

And yet, each of the Apple Apologists above, got those simple facts wrong!
Consistently.
Repeatedly.

Not only did they get those simple facts wrong though.
They _ridiculed_ the two people on this thread who had their facts right!

What's amazing, actually, is that the Apologists above act like children.
o They got even the _simplest_ of facts dead wrong
o Every one of their conclusions, as a result, was dead wrong
o They ridiculed the two people who had their facts right!

This thread is _perfect_ to prove Apple Apologist are not normal people!
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/lG4eI7QeEbw>

*Actual facts have absolutely no place to fit in their belief system.*

All you Apple Apologists whoosh on even the _simplest_ of basic facts!
o First, BK@OnRamp jumped to completely erroneous conclusions:
> The idiot must be referring to 12 not 12.0.1.
o Then, Chris in Makiti jumped to completely erroneous conclusions:
> What an arse he is. Confusing 12 with 12.0.1
o Then, Meanie jumped to completely erroneous conclusions:
> Ignore the ass. You'll never win.

Meanwhile, the only adults here were Ant, and me, both of whom used facts.

What's amazing is that you Apple Apologists can't comprehend simple facts.
Worse, you Apple Apologists jump to conclusions supported by _zero_ facts.
You make everything up - your thought process is entireley fictional.

You brazenly fabricated what clearly never happened.
*And yet, you actually _believe_ your brazen imaginary fabrications!*

If this thread alone doesn't prove that Apple Apologists are children,
you'll never comprehend why you're not at all like normal adults.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 6 Oct 2018 03:59:41 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> *These are the key Apple Apologists*

> - Lewis

There is a _perfect_ example of Apple Apolostist excuses here today:
moving songs to another device
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/Khjmvxl2ckA>

What happened is that Lewis told badgolferman that iTunes won't do what
badgolferman expects it to do which is simply copy an MP3 file the way
badgolferman wants the flie to be copied.
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/Khjmvxl2ckA/kuIWzXALCAAJ>

Whether or not Lewis is correct, what is interesting is that Lewis feels
the need to "apologize" for the perceived limitations of iTunes'
functionality:
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/Khjmvxl2ckA/0EvREZESCAAJ>

Lewis must turn this perceived lack of Apple capability into a "moral
crusade" as an apology.

*It's a classic Apple Apologist excuse!*

This errant juxtaposition of a lack of functionality with a moral crusade
is something the Apple Apologist "nospam" does all the time, where it's a
common "excuse" by the Apple Apologists for lack of Apple functionality
(e.g., call recording, torrenting, official Tor functionality, etc.).
o Apple Apologist excuses for lack of Call Recording functionality
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/wtm8DFXuz20/IoGmkjsABwAJ>
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/Vzqi7TMVgPs/jSpfOcVR458J>

o Apple Apologist excuses for lack of torrenting functionality
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/o7LIocpGkPg/LHWYqyDYxGUJ>

o Apple Apologist excuses for lack of official Tor functionality
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/A8yry1XPCxI/Hb1d67uaBAAJ>

[Arlen Holder]

On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 14:12:49 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> There is a _perfect_ example of Apple Apolostist excuses here today:
> moving songs to another device
> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/Khjmvxl2ckA>

On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 15:28:16 +0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote:

> I don't completely agree with your assessment.

I actually did NOT expect any response, so I appreciate that you did
respond, where I will read carefully and respond accordingly, with respect
& intelligence applied.

Since you act like an adult, I doubt we'll have any problem agreeing on
most logical facts, nor in stating the ramifications of those facts.

Adults are funny that way, just as facts are funny that way.

> The Apple ecosystem and
> file handling is a different animal than what I am used to with the
> Windows environment.

I agree completely that both actions are _completely_ different on Apple
operating systems than on all other common consumer operating systems:
o How Apple handles the "ecosystem" (i.e., what apps can do), and,
o How Apple handles files (i.e., what you can do with your own files).

You are correct that these two differences are done overwhelmingly
*differently* on Apple products.

Nobody logical could disagree with your assessment that what you (and I)
are used to in the Windows, Linux, & Android environment, doesn't apply in
the Apple environment.

> Simple file managing is not so simple with Apple
> devices, but that's the nature of the beast for whatever reason.

This is true, where, on all other common consumer operating systems, an MP3
file is just that. It's a file. It's no different from a text file or a
binary file in terms of what "freedom" the user has to manage it or
collections of it (which Apple calls, strangely, a "library").

You slide MP3 files around just like you move text files around.
There are no artificially imposed restrictions on copying MP3 files.

I agree that this is how all the other consumer operating systems work.

> However Apple mobile devices backup and restore quite nicely so long as
> you play with their limitations.

You bring up an excellent point which I have never disagreed with.

I agree & have _always_ agreed, that, if you do exactly what Apple
marketing has told you to do, that the "walled garden ecosysystem" works
quite well for most users.

Obviously, for a power user, the walled garden is too restrictive; but
we're talking, I assume, about the average user, like Jolly Rorger or Lewis
or BK@OnRamp are, where, for those average users, the ecosystem works
*perfectly*.

The caveat, of course, is that you have to do what Apple marketing wants
you to do, which, as you noted, is not how we do things on all other common
consumer platforms, such as Windows, Linux, or Android.

Hence there is a difference in how you do things:
o Apple users do things the way Apple marketing wants them to do them
o Linux/Windows/Android users do things the way they want to do them

> I compare my iPhones to my wife/son Android devices and notice the
> difference in reliability and overall polish.

Here is where we, as adults, can handle the complexities involved.
Your statement could be completely true or totally false, or in between.
Everything depends on the details inherent in your analysis above.

For example, did you _pay_ as much for those Android phones as for Apple?
If not, you're not comparing the proper price-to-polish metric.

Are those Android phones using the same set of apps as for Apple?
If not, you may be comparing apps, and ascribing _that_ to the OS.

I have an iPad (lots of them), & I currently have an LG Stylo 3 Plus.
As you're aware, I paid only $130 each for a handful of those phones.

I use the LG Stylo 3 Plus _far_ more than the iPad.
Why?

For one, it does more things. Period. (We won't belabor that fact.)
But, for the other, it does the _same_ things as iOS does, but better!

For one example, I can watch YouTube videos on iOS or on Android.
o On iOS, I'm forced to watch ad, after ad, after ad, after ad.
o On Android, I've never once ever seen a YouTube ad.

For another, in my experience over many years, iOS WiFi is unreliable.

You don't want to get me started on the unreliablity of WiFi on Apple
products, where I posted, years ago, my audio of the crazy conversation
with the Apple Genius Bar employees, who don't even know what a decibel is
(neither did Jolly Roger, Lewis, nospam, BK@OnRamp, etc.).

Suffice to say I'm pretty good at WiFi, having set up WISP networks all
over my neighborhood, where I've proved many times that I can hold any one
of three iPads against any one of my many Android phones in my very hands,
and walk around my rather large house of many floors with over a dozen
access points, where _clearly_ the iOS device is _always_ less reliable in
noticing and connecting (hence switching) to the stronger access point.

Those are facts above that are easily proven (and which have been proven).

Your statement that Android is "less reliable" and "less polished" may or
may not be true - but as an adult - I would expect a fact backing up that
statement.

My belief system is based on facts so I expect facts from you on yours.
It's how adults communicate, and it's how we can agree or disagree.

I would agree with you on the fact that there may be far more _chances_ for
Android to "get complex" for a simple user such as the average users Jolly
Roger, BK@OnRamp, etc., where for _them_, the complexities involved in
having choices may inundate them.

But for an average adult, I don't think there's any good evidence presented
yet that shows that Android is any less reliable than iOS is, if we assume
we're comparing comparable hardware phones.

For example, let's not compare a $35 Android p;hone with a $1500 iOS phone
if we want to look at reliability and polish.

Since my LG Stylo 3 Plus is $130, and since it compares favorably with
hardware on the vive times more expensive iPhone 7 Plus, I would consider
_those_ two phones a reasonable comparison on reliability and polish
though.

I would then ask, how does the reliability & polish of these two phones
compare?
* $640 iPhone 7 Plus
* $130 LG Stylo 3 Plus
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/HDI8moW_4Pw%5B1-25%5D>

If you ask me to run a reliability or polish test, I can run it on that
Android phone against one of my many iPads (the latest being on iOS 11.2.6
which it was born with).

> I do wish there was more customization allowed on my Apple
> devices though.

This is a basic statement that I would agree with a priori.

I think there's a certain "type" of user who gravitates to the lack of
customization on iOS products - but I haven't figure out exactly what about
that lack of customization appeals to them.

I think it could be that they don't even realize what you and I know.
Or, it could be that they don't care (giving up is easily done).
Or, it could be that they stay wholly within the Apple ecosystem?

Or it could even be, as the Apologists love to say, that this lack of
customization proves *safety & security* benefits as a tradeoff.

I don't know why it appeals so very much to the average Apple user - but I
will agree wholeheartedly with you that iOS lacks the customization that
users on all other common consumer platforms simply take for granted.

> I do agree though that a sense of superiority and smugness seems
> prevalent among many Apple enthusiasts, but that's not limited only to
> them in this newsgroup.

I think this statement, by you, is very important. Extremely important.
Why I think it's important is that I have been studying the Apple user for
about two decades.

In the beginning, I would try to "reason" with the average Apple user.

For years, it bothered me immensely, for example, trying to reason with the
likes of nospam, Jolly Roger, Lewis, Chris, Meanie, BK@OnRamp, Alan Bakerm
Tim Streater, Savageduck, Hemidactylus, Your Name, etc.

You can't reason with those dozen users like you would with an adult.

Basically, as I've said many times, the only conclusion that is possible:
o Is that they're actually _that_ childish or dumb, or,
o They are just playing their silly childish games _all the time_.

There are no other reasonable conclusions that can be made based on what
they write on Usenet.

However ... lately ... I've come to think it's something somewhat
different, which is that they have a religious belief system on Apple
products.

I use the word "religious" because it is intended to mean that a "God" has
spoken (that God being Apple Marketing), where everything that God says, is
taken as gospel, even as there is no evidence or proof backing up that
dogma.

I think, it could be, that these average Apple users are so beholden to
this religious belief in whatever that God tells them, that their minds are
completely closed to facts to the contrary.

If that is true (and it appears to fit the facts), then ...
o Is it really appropriate to call them _dumb_ or _childish_?

If they were simply religious zealots, to, say, a Jim Jones' type of god,
would I consider them childishly dumb or stupid - or - would I just
consider them under the influence of a god-like proponent of ideas that
just don't hold up to facts?

I do not know the answer to this question, but, there are a certain set of
about a dozen average Apple users on this newsgroup who fit that assessment
that they're not really as dumb or childish as they sound - they're just
under the divine influence of a god-like dogma that leaves them no room to
consider facts to the contrary of what that God tells them.

In summary, I agree with all your assessments, where Android has its flaws
for sure (e.g., assigning a drive letter on Windows over MTP), but where
you seem to _understand_ and _comprehend_ *exactly* what the iOS product
is, and what it isn't.

Hence, kudos to you for _comprehending_ what is, and for having a logical
fact-based adult perspective on the analysis of those facts.

[Wade Garrett]

What a silly, pointless thread...

--
I was almost run off the road this afternoon by some guy making an
undocumented U-turn.
- @patsajak

[B...@onramp.net]

On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 13:32:22 -0400, Wade Garrett <wa...@cooler.net>
wrote:

>On 10/17/18 12:51 PM, Arlen Holder wrote:

<clip inane gibberish>

>
>What a silly, pointless thread...

LOL. You should have known that from the header.

[Lloyd]

And the poster!

--
Lloyd