Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
moving songs to another device
2 views
Skip to first unread message
badgolferman
Oct 16, 2018, 10:08:31 AM10/16/18
to
I am switching from a corporate iPhone8 to a personal iPhone7. The
Apple IDs are also different. All my songs on the corporate phone are
MP3 songs put on there by myself via iTunes and none are purchased.
How can I manually copy them over to my personal phone? AirDrop
doesn't seem to work. I can't see them on a file manager when hooking
up the phone to the computer.
Apple IDs are also different. All my songs on the corporate phone are
MP3 songs put on there by myself via iTunes and none are purchased.
How can I manually copy them over to my personal phone? AirDrop
doesn't seem to work. I can't see them on a file manager when hooking
up the phone to the computer.
nospam
Oct 16, 2018, 10:47:16 AM10/16/18
to
badgolferman
Oct 16, 2018, 11:24:47 AM10/16/18
to
Joerg Lorenz
Oct 16, 2018, 11:57:59 AM10/16/18
to
Am 16.10.18 um 17:24 schrieb badgolferman:
Syncronise your music on your current iPhone to itunes on your Mac and
then syncronise your new phone with your Mac. That's all.
then syncronise your new phone with your Mac. That's all.
Joerg Lorenz
Oct 16, 2018, 11:59:11 AM10/16/18
to
Am 16.10.18 um 17:24 schrieb badgolferman:
collection to your computer?
nospam
Oct 16, 2018, 11:59:43 AM10/16/18
to
In article <xn0lg9lw6...@reader.albasani.net>, badgolferman
different phone, and itunes can manage both independently so there is
no conflict.
if you use the same work computer with your new phone, you only need to
connect that new phone and sync. if you choose to use your personal
computer instead (probably a good idea), then you'll need to copy the
music to your computer.
you said:
> >>are MP3 songs put on there by myself via iTunes and none are
do the same thing for the new phone. the process is the same, just a
> >>are MP3 songs put on there by myself via iTunes and none are
different phone, and itunes can manage both independently so there is
no conflict.
if you use the same work computer with your new phone, you only need to
connect that new phone and sync. if you choose to use your personal
computer instead (probably a good idea), then you'll need to copy the
music to your computer.
badgolferman
Oct 16, 2018, 12:34:09 PM10/16/18
to
like what you describe except iTunes showed me where to find the actual
songs on my computer from the work phone backup. I hooked up the new
phone and was leery at first because my two options were restore backup
or set up as new phone. Wasn't sure if setting up as new phone would
wipe out my device, but it worked out okay. I dragged and dropped the
songs from Windows Explorer onto iTunes and it loaded them on the new
device.
nospam
Oct 16, 2018, 12:39:20 PM10/16/18
to
In article <xn0lg9npf...@reader.albasani.net>, badgolferman
for), and since it's a new phone, there's nothing to wipe out.
<REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> While I was waiting for a reply I figured out what to do. It's much
> like what you describe except iTunes showed me where to find the actual
> songs on my computer from the work phone backup. I hooked up the new
> phone and was leery at first because my two options were restore backup
> or set up as new phone. Wasn't sure if setting up as new phone would
> wipe out my device, but it worked out okay. I dragged and dropped the
> songs from Windows Explorer onto iTunes and it loaded them on the new
> device.
restore from backup would probably have worked (that's what backups are
>
> While I was waiting for a reply I figured out what to do. It's much
> like what you describe except iTunes showed me where to find the actual
> songs on my computer from the work phone backup. I hooked up the new
> phone and was leery at first because my two options were restore backup
> or set up as new phone. Wasn't sure if setting up as new phone would
> wipe out my device, but it worked out okay. I dragged and dropped the
> songs from Windows Explorer onto iTunes and it loaded them on the new
> device.
for), and since it's a new phone, there's nothing to wipe out.
B...@onramp.net
Oct 16, 2018, 12:55:29 PM10/16/18
to
If your i8 has been backed up skip to 2.
1.
Plug your i8 into your computer open iTunes and click on the phone
image top left. That opens a page where you back your phone up under
Manual Backup and Restore click on Backup Now.
When completed just unplug i8 and plug the i7 into your computer.
iTunes will still be open. If not re-open it and click on the phone
image again.
2.Under Manual Backup and restore click on Restore Backup.
When that's done you're set.
The i7 will have an exact copy of the i8.
badgolferman
Oct 16, 2018, 1:13:28 PM10/16/18
to
apps/photos/contacts/notes that I wanted. However I wanted to
disassociate myself completely from the work phone and have no remnants
of the old Apple ID on the new phone, therefore restoring from a
previous backup was out of the question. I've lost my $25 iTunes gift
card account but I can accept that.
The question I originally posed was about manually copying the songs
over to the new phone. Fortunately iTunes provided the hint of the
location and I was able to copy them over to the new device manually.
Zaidy036
Oct 16, 2018, 4:23:25 PM10/16/18
to
Settings>General>about change to a new name and back it up under that
name so you do not have to repeat the process.
Also call Apple Store help and see if they will transfer $25.
--
Zaidy036
nospam
Oct 16, 2018, 4:25:15 PM10/16/18
to
In article <pq5hbt$sjb$1...@dont-email.me>, Zaidy036 <Zaid...@isp.spam>
wrote:
> > 2.Under Manual Backup and restore click on Restore Backup.
> >
> > When that's done you're set.
> > The i7 will have an exact copy of the i8.
> >
> EXCEPT that the new iPhone will have the old iPhone's name.
that does not matter whatsoever. itunes tracks devices by device id,
not name.
wrote:
> > 2.Under Manual Backup and restore click on Restore Backup.
> >
> > When that's done you're set.
> > The i7 will have an exact copy of the i8.
> >
> EXCEPT that the new iPhone will have the old iPhone's name.
not name.
Lewis
Oct 16, 2018, 5:00:04 PM10/16/18
to
computer after putting them on your phone you'll have to get them again
from wherever you stole them from.
--
When treading water in a circle of sharks, a wizard will always consider
other wizards to be the most immediate danger. --The Last Continent
Arlen Holder
Oct 16, 2018, 9:06:34 PM10/16/18
to
On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 14:08:30 +0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote:
> All my songs on the corporate phone are MP3 songs
Since you've solved your problem this answer is for future users.
> All my songs on the corporate phone are MP3 songs
One method that allows complete freedom is...
a. Boot any Windows/Linux/Mac desktop to any Ubuntu 18.04 USB media
b. Plug in any number of iOS (or Android) mobile devices
c. *Slides any MP3 song any which way you like*
Voila!
*You have complete & total freedom for all MP3 files on all devices!*
No need for the primitive restrictive concept of a "library".
No need for the iTunes abomination.
No need to deal with an Apple ID.
No need to worry about a Device ID.
No need to worry about the iTunes abomination wiping out your library.
etc.
An MP3 song is simply a file.
Like any other file.
As a file, the MP3 "song" is not restricted in the least.
As God intended files to be.
badgolferman
Oct 17, 2018, 7:02:33 AM10/17/18
to
Lewis wrote:
>In message <xn0lg9jwu...@reader.albasani.net> badgolferman
><REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I am switching from a corporate iPhone8 to a personal iPhone7. The
>> Apple IDs are also different. All my songs on the corporate phone
>>are MP3 songs put on there by myself via iTunes and none are
>>purchased. How can I manually copy them over to my personal
>>phone? AirDrop doesn't seem to work. I can't see them on a file
>>manager when hooking up the phone to the computer.
>
>You cannot copy music off the iPhone. If you deleted the MP3s from
>your computer after putting them on your phone you'll have to get
>them again from wherever you stole them from.
What makes you think I stole anything? I have plenty of old CDs that I
>In message <xn0lg9jwu...@reader.albasani.net> badgolferman
><REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I am switching from a corporate iPhone8 to a personal iPhone7. The
>> Apple IDs are also different. All my songs on the corporate phone
>>are MP3 songs put on there by myself via iTunes and none are
>>purchased. How can I manually copy them over to my personal
>>phone? AirDrop doesn't seem to work. I can't see them on a file
>>manager when hooking up the phone to the computer.
>
>You cannot copy music off the iPhone. If you deleted the MP3s from
>your computer after putting them on your phone you'll have to get
>them again from wherever you stole them from.
converted the songs from for an MP3 player and later the iPhone.
Lewis
Oct 17, 2018, 7:21:03 AM10/17/18
to
In message <xn0lgatl...@reader.albasani.net> badgolferman <REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Lewis wrote:
>>In message <xn0lg9jwu...@reader.albasani.net> badgolferman
>><REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I am switching from a corporate iPhone8 to a personal iPhone7. The
>>> Apple IDs are also different. All my songs on the corporate phone
>>>are MP3 songs put on there by myself via iTunes and none are
>>>purchased. How can I manually copy them over to my personal
>>>phone? AirDrop doesn't seem to work. I can't see them on a file
>>>manager when hooking up the phone to the computer.
>>
>>You cannot copy music off the iPhone. If you deleted the MP3s from
>>your computer after putting them on your phone you'll have to get
>>them again from wherever you stole them from.
> What makes you think I stole anything?
That's what you said,.
> Lewis wrote:
>>In message <xn0lg9jwu...@reader.albasani.net> badgolferman
>><REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I am switching from a corporate iPhone8 to a personal iPhone7. The
>>> Apple IDs are also different. All my songs on the corporate phone
>>>are MP3 songs put on there by myself via iTunes and none are
>>>purchased. How can I manually copy them over to my personal
>>>phone? AirDrop doesn't seem to work. I can't see them on a file
>>>manager when hooking up the phone to the computer.
>>
>>You cannot copy music off the iPhone. If you deleted the MP3s from
>>your computer after putting them on your phone you'll have to get
>>them again from wherever you stole them from.
> What makes you think I stole anything?
> I have plenty of old CDs that I converted the songs from for an MP3
> player and later the iPhone.
--
'Life's like a beach. And then you die.' --Small Gods
badgolferman
Oct 17, 2018, 7:43:48 AM10/17/18
to
Lewis wrote:
>In message <xn0lgatl...@reader.albasani.net> badgolferman
><REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Lewis wrote:
>
>>>In message <xn0lg9jwu...@reader.albasani.net> badgolferman
>>><REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I am switching from a corporate iPhone8 to a personal iPhone7.
>>>>The Apple IDs are also different. All my songs on the
>>>>corporate phone are MP3 songs put on there by myself via
>>>>iTunes and none are purchased. How can I manually copy them
>>>>over to my personal phone? AirDrop doesn't seem to work. I
>>>>can't see them on a file manager when hooking up the phone to
>>>>the computer.
>>>
>>>You cannot copy music off the iPhone. If you deleted the MP3s from
>>>your computer after putting them on your phone you'll have to get
>>>them again from wherever you stole them from.
>
>
>> What makes you think I stole anything?
>
>That's what you said,.
No I didn't. Just admit you're wrong.
>In message <xn0lgatl...@reader.albasani.net> badgolferman
><REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Lewis wrote:
>
>>>In message <xn0lg9jwu...@reader.albasani.net> badgolferman
>>><REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I am switching from a corporate iPhone8 to a personal iPhone7.
>>>>The Apple IDs are also different. All my songs on the
>>>>corporate phone are MP3 songs put on there by myself via
>>>>iTunes and none are purchased. How can I manually copy them
>>>>over to my personal phone? AirDrop doesn't seem to work. I
>>>>can't see them on a file manager when hooking up the phone to
>>>>the computer.
>>>
>>>You cannot copy music off the iPhone. If you deleted the MP3s from
>>>your computer after putting them on your phone you'll have to get
>>>them again from wherever you stole them from.
>
>
>> What makes you think I stole anything?
>
>That's what you said,.
>
>> I have plenty of old CDs that I converted the songs from for an MP3
>> player and later the iPhone.
>
>Which would not be "none are purchased".
Arlen Holder
Oct 17, 2018, 9:54:23 AM10/17/18
to
On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 11:43:47 +0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote:
>>>>> All my songs on the
>>>>>corporate phone are MP3 songs put on there by myself via
>>>>>iTunes and none are purchased. How can I manually copy them
>>>>>over to my personal phone? AirDrop doesn't seem to work. I
>>>>>can't see them on a file manager when hooking up the phone to
>>>>>the computer.
>>>>
>>>>You cannot copy music off the iPhone. If you deleted the MP3s from
>>>>your computer after putting them on your phone you'll have to get
>>>>them again from wherever you stole them from.
>>
>>
>>> What makes you think I stole anything?
>>
>>That's what you said,.
>
> No I didn't. Just admit you're wrong.
I find it interesting how the mind of an Apple Apologist works.
>>>>> All my songs on the
>>>>>corporate phone are MP3 songs put on there by myself via
>>>>>iTunes and none are purchased. How can I manually copy them
>>>>>over to my personal phone? AirDrop doesn't seem to work. I
>>>>>can't see them on a file manager when hooking up the phone to
>>>>>the computer.
>>>>
>>>>You cannot copy music off the iPhone. If you deleted the MP3s from
>>>>your computer after putting them on your phone you'll have to get
>>>>them again from wherever you stole them from.
>>
>>
>>> What makes you think I stole anything?
>>
>>That's what you said,.
>
> No I didn't. Just admit you're wrong.
o badgolferman: I need to move MP3 files
o Lewis: iTunes requires a "library" on the desktop to hinder theft
o badgolferman: I didn't steal them; they're just MP3 files
o Lewis: But you stole them so iTunes won't let you move them
o badgolferman: I never said I stole them
This is a simple technical question:
o How does one move MP3 files from one place to another
And yet, the Apologist, Lewis, turns it into an errant "moral" crusade.
(The Apologist "nospam" does this all the time - when it suits his agenda.)
In this case, it doesn't matter _how_ badgolferman got his MP3 files.
What matters is that Lewis says that iTunes won't let him copy them.
It's a technical question. Not a moral question.
The Apple Apologist Lewis can't seem to grasp the stellar difference.
*I find it interesting how Apologists own the mind of a fifth-grade child*
Jolly Roger
Oct 17, 2018, 10:11:10 AM10/17/18
to
badgolferman <REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> nospam wrote:
>
>> In article <xn0lg9npf...@reader.albasani.net>, badgolferman
>> <REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> While I was waiting for a reply I figured out what to do. It's
>>> much like what you describe except iTunes showed me where to find
>>> the actual songs on my computer from the work phone backup. I
>>> hooked up the new phone and was leery at first because my two
>>> options were restore backup or set up as new phone. Wasn't sure
>>> if setting up as new phone would wipe out my device, but it worked
>>> out okay. I dragged and dropped the songs from Windows Explorer
>>> onto iTunes and it loaded them on the new device.
>>
>> restore from backup would probably have worked (that's what backups
>> are for), and since it's a new phone, there's nothing to wipe out.
>
>
> Actually the new phone is fully set up with a new Apple ID and all the
> apps/photos/contacts/notes that I wanted. However I wanted to
> disassociate myself completely from the work phone and have no remnants
> of the old Apple ID on the new phone,
Why?
> nospam wrote:
>
>> In article <xn0lg9npf...@reader.albasani.net>, badgolferman
>> <REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> While I was waiting for a reply I figured out what to do. It's
>>> much like what you describe except iTunes showed me where to find
>>> the actual songs on my computer from the work phone backup. I
>>> hooked up the new phone and was leery at first because my two
>>> options were restore backup or set up as new phone. Wasn't sure
>>> if setting up as new phone would wipe out my device, but it worked
>>> out okay. I dragged and dropped the songs from Windows Explorer
>>> onto iTunes and it loaded them on the new device.
>>
>> restore from backup would probably have worked (that's what backups
>> are for), and since it's a new phone, there's nothing to wipe out.
>
>
> Actually the new phone is fully set up with a new Apple ID and all the
> apps/photos/contacts/notes that I wanted. However I wanted to
> disassociate myself completely from the work phone and have no remnants
> of the old Apple ID on the new phone,
> therefore restoring from a
> previous backup was out of the question. I've lost my $25 iTunes gift
> card account but I can accept that.
reason for purposely losing all of that. Do tell!
--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.
JR
Lewis
Oct 17, 2018, 10:29:28 AM10/17/18
to
--
Hard work pays off in the future. Laziness pays off now.
Lewis
Oct 17, 2018, 10:30:22 AM10/17/18
to
see walking away.
--
You have the effrontery to be squeamish, it thought at him. But we were
dragons. We were supposed to be cruel, cunning, heartless, and terrible.
But this much I can tell you, you ape - the great face pressed even
closer, so that Wonse was staring into the pitiless depths of his eyes -
we never burned and tortured and ripped one another apart and called it
morality. --Guards! Guards!
Arlen Holder
Oct 17, 2018, 10:36:45 AM10/17/18
to
This thread is a _perfect_ example of Apple Apologist excuses here today:
moving songs to another device
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/Khjmvxl2ckA>
What happened is that Lewis told badgolferman that iTunes won't do what
badgolferman expects it to do which is simply copy an MP3 file the way
badgolferman wants the flie to be copied.
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/Khjmvxl2ckA/kuIWzXALCAAJ>
Whether or not Lewis is correct, what is interesting is that Lewis feels
the need to "apologize" for the perceived limitations of iTunes'
functionality:
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/Khjmvxl2ckA/0EvREZESCAAJ>
Lewis must turn this perceived lack of Apple capability into a "moral
crusade" as an apology.
*It's a classic Apple Apologist excuse!*
This errant juxtaposition of a lack of functionality with a moral crusade
is something the Apple Apologist "nospam" does all the time, where it's a
common "excuse" by the Apple Apologists for lack of Apple functionality
(e.g., call recording, torrenting, official Tor functionality, etc.).
o Apple Apologist excuses for lack of Call Recording functionality
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/wtm8DFXuz20/IoGmkjsABwAJ>
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/Vzqi7TMVgPs/jSpfOcVR458J>
o Apple Apologist excuses for lack of torrenting functionality
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/o7LIocpGkPg/LHWYqyDYxGUJ>
o Apple Apologist excuses for lack of official Tor functionality
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/A8yry1XPCxI/Hb1d67uaBAAJ>
I love reading Apple threads, as I learn all about how you people think!
--
No need to respond; my strategy & tactics are to enable future research.
moving songs to another device
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/Khjmvxl2ckA>
What happened is that Lewis told badgolferman that iTunes won't do what
badgolferman expects it to do which is simply copy an MP3 file the way
badgolferman wants the flie to be copied.
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/Khjmvxl2ckA/kuIWzXALCAAJ>
Whether or not Lewis is correct, what is interesting is that Lewis feels
the need to "apologize" for the perceived limitations of iTunes'
functionality:
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/Khjmvxl2ckA/0EvREZESCAAJ>
Lewis must turn this perceived lack of Apple capability into a "moral
crusade" as an apology.
*It's a classic Apple Apologist excuse!*
This errant juxtaposition of a lack of functionality with a moral crusade
is something the Apple Apologist "nospam" does all the time, where it's a
common "excuse" by the Apple Apologists for lack of Apple functionality
(e.g., call recording, torrenting, official Tor functionality, etc.).
o Apple Apologist excuses for lack of Call Recording functionality
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/wtm8DFXuz20/IoGmkjsABwAJ>
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/Vzqi7TMVgPs/jSpfOcVR458J>
o Apple Apologist excuses for lack of torrenting functionality
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/o7LIocpGkPg/LHWYqyDYxGUJ>
o Apple Apologist excuses for lack of official Tor functionality
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/A8yry1XPCxI/Hb1d67uaBAAJ>
I love reading Apple threads, as I learn all about how you people think!
--
No need to respond; my strategy & tactics are to enable future research.
Arlen Holder
Oct 17, 2018, 10:40:30 AM10/17/18
to
On 17 Oct 2018 14:11:09 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:
>> Actually the new phone is fully set up with a new Apple ID and all the
>> apps/photos/contacts/notes that I wanted. However I wanted to
>> disassociate myself completely from the work phone and have no remnants
>> of the old Apple ID on the new phone,
>
> Why?
I love when Jolly Roger posts - because he can't hide his mind from us.
>> Actually the new phone is fully set up with a new Apple ID and all the
>> apps/photos/contacts/notes that I wanted. However I wanted to
>> disassociate myself completely from the work phone and have no remnants
>> of the old Apple ID on the new phone,
>
> Why?
Like a fifth-grade child - everything he thinks - is patently transparent.
Notice that the simple and obvious answer that badgolferman has, isn't
"enough" for the Apple Apologist, Jolly Roger.
The simple answer is:
"Because I want to ... that's why".
The user should be able to do anything the user wants with their files.
>> therefore restoring from a
>> previous backup was out of the question. I've lost my $25 iTunes gift
>> card account but I can accept that.
>
> Wow. You also loose all app purchases. You must have a really compelling
> reason for purposely losing all of that. Do tell!
what's interesting is that you belittle someone who simply wants to do what
he wants to do with his files.
That's part of what makes you an Apple Apologist, Jolly Roger.
Your entire mind set is that of a fifth-grade child.
Jolly Roger
Oct 17, 2018, 10:58:23 AM10/17/18
to
badgolferman
Oct 17, 2018, 11:18:30 AM10/17/18
to
Lewis wrote:
>> Wow. You also loose all app purchases. You must have a really
>>compelling reason for purposely losing all of that. Do tell!
>
>If it is an AppleID that is under MDM to the company, I can certainly
>see walking away.
This.
>> Wow. You also loose all app purchases. You must have a really
>>compelling reason for purposely losing all of that. Do tell!
>
>If it is an AppleID that is under MDM to the company, I can certainly
>see walking away.
badgolferman
Oct 17, 2018, 11:28:17 AM10/17/18
to
Arlen Holder wrote:
>This thread is a perfect example of Apple Apologist excuses here
I don't completely agree with your assessment. The Apple ecosystem and
file handling is a different animal than what I am used to with the
Windows environment. Simple file managing is not so simple with Apple
devices, but that's the nature of the beast for whatever reason.
However Apple mobile devices backup and restore quite nicely so long as
you play with their limitations. I compare my iPhones to my wife/son
Android devices and notice the difference in reliability and overall
polish. I do wish there was more customization allowed on my Apple
devices though.
I do agree though that a sense of superiority and smugness seems
prevalent among many Apple enthusiasts, but that's not limited only to
them in this newsgroup.
>This thread is a perfect example of Apple Apologist excuses here
file handling is a different animal than what I am used to with the
Windows environment. Simple file managing is not so simple with Apple
devices, but that's the nature of the beast for whatever reason.
However Apple mobile devices backup and restore quite nicely so long as
you play with their limitations. I compare my iPhones to my wife/son
Android devices and notice the difference in reliability and overall
polish. I do wish there was more customization allowed on my Apple
devices though.
I do agree though that a sense of superiority and smugness seems
prevalent among many Apple enthusiasts, but that's not limited only to
them in this newsgroup.
nospam
Oct 17, 2018, 12:21:20 PM10/17/18
to
In article <xn0lgb0j...@reader.albasani.net>, badgolferman
> The Apple ecosystem and
> file handling is a different animal than what I am used to with the
> Windows environment. Simple file managing is not so simple with Apple
> devices, but that's the nature of the beast for whatever reason.
actually, it's much easier. since a lot of the grunt work is handled
for you so you can concentrate on the real tasks.
> However Apple mobile devices backup and restore quite nicely so long as
> you play with their limitations.
where 'limitation' is back up the entire device without any third party
apps or user interaction, the opposite of limitation.
it's android that has the limitations, including needing third party
apps and rooting for a full backup.
> I compare my iPhones to my wife/son
> Android devices and notice the difference in reliability and overall
> polish. I do wish there was more customization allowed on my Apple
> devices though.
what do you want to customize?
> I do agree though that a sense of superiority and smugness seems
> prevalent among many Apple enthusiasts, but that's not limited only to
> them in this newsgroup.
everything has a tiny minority of fanbois. go to a biker bar and say
harley sucks, see how well that works out.
<REMOVETHISb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Arlen Holder wrote:
> >This thread is a perfect example of Apple Apologist excuses here
> >today: moving songs to another device
> >
>
> Arlen Holder wrote:
> >This thread is a perfect example of Apple Apologist excuses here
> >today: moving songs to another device
> >
>
> I don't completely agree with your assessment.
he's trolling.
> The Apple ecosystem and
> file handling is a different animal than what I am used to with the
> Windows environment. Simple file managing is not so simple with Apple
> devices, but that's the nature of the beast for whatever reason.
for you so you can concentrate on the real tasks.
> However Apple mobile devices backup and restore quite nicely so long as
> you play with their limitations.
apps or user interaction, the opposite of limitation.
it's android that has the limitations, including needing third party
apps and rooting for a full backup.
> I compare my iPhones to my wife/son
> Android devices and notice the difference in reliability and overall
> polish. I do wish there was more customization allowed on my Apple
> devices though.
> I do agree though that a sense of superiority and smugness seems
> prevalent among many Apple enthusiasts, but that's not limited only to
> them in this newsgroup.
harley sucks, see how well that works out.
badgolferman
Oct 17, 2018, 12:29:38 PM10/17/18
to
nospam wrote:
>everything has a tiny minority of fanbois. go to a biker bar and say
>harley sucks, see how well that works out.
Considering I ride a Goldwing that wouldn't go over well....
>everything has a tiny minority of fanbois. go to a biker bar and say
>harley sucks, see how well that works out.
Arlen Holder
Oct 17, 2018, 12:50:55 PM10/17/18
to
On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 15:28:16 +0000 (UTC), badgolferman wrote:
> I don't completely agree with your assessment.
I actually did NOT expect any response, so I appreciate that you did
> I don't completely agree with your assessment.
respond, where I will read carefully and respond accordingly, with respect
& intelligence applied.
Since you act like an adult, I doubt we'll have any problem agreeing on
most logical facts, nor in stating the ramifications of those facts.
Adults are funny that way, just as facts are funny that way.
> The Apple ecosystem and
> file handling is a different animal than what I am used to with the
> Windows environment.
operating systems than on all other common consumer operating systems:
o How Apple handles the "ecosystem" (i.e., what apps can do), and,
o How Apple handles files (i.e., what you can do with your own files).
You are correct that these two differences are done overwhelmingly
*differently* on Apple products.
Nobody logical could disagree with your assessment that what you (and I)
are used to in the Windows, Linux, & Android environment, doesn't apply in
the Apple environment.
> Simple file managing is not so simple with Apple
> devices, but that's the nature of the beast for whatever reason.
file is just that. It's a file. It's no different from a text file or a
binary file in terms of what "freedom" the user has to manage it or
collections of it (which Apple calls, strangely, a "library").
You slide MP3 files around just like you move text files around.
There are no artificially imposed restrictions on copying MP3 files.
I agree that this is how all the other consumer operating systems work.
> However Apple mobile devices backup and restore quite nicely so long as
> you play with their limitations.
I agree & have _always_ agreed, that, if you do exactly what Apple
marketing has told you to do, that the "walled garden ecosysystem" works
quite well for most users.
Obviously, for a power user, the walled garden is too restrictive; but
we're talking, I assume, about the average user, like Jolly Rorger or Lewis
or BK@OnRamp are, where, for those average users, the ecosystem works
*perfectly*.
The caveat, of course, is that you have to do what Apple marketing wants
you to do, which, as you noted, is not how we do things on all other common
consumer platforms, such as Windows, Linux, or Android.
Hence there is a difference in how you do things:
o Apple users do things the way Apple marketing wants them to do them
o Linux/Windows/Android users do things the way they want to do them
> I compare my iPhones to my wife/son Android devices and notice the
> difference in reliability and overall polish.
Your statement could be completely true or totally false, or in between.
Everything depends on the details inherent in your analysis above.
For example, did you _pay_ as much for those Android phones as for Apple?
If not, you're not comparing the proper price-to-polish metric.
Are those Android phones using the same set of apps as for Apple?
If not, you may be comparing apps, and ascribing _that_ to the OS.
I have an iPad (lots of them), & I currently have an LG Stylo 3 Plus.
As you're aware, I paid only $130 each for a handful of those phones.
I use the LG Stylo 3 Plus _far_ more than the iPad.
Why?
For one, it does more things. Period. (We won't belabor that fact.)
But, for the other, it does the _same_ things as iOS does, but better!
For one example, I can watch YouTube videos on iOS or on Android.
o On iOS, I'm forced to watch ad, after ad, after ad, after ad.
o On Android, I've never once ever seen a YouTube ad.
For another, in my experience over many years, iOS WiFi is unreliable.
You don't want to get me started on the unreliablity of WiFi on Apple
products, where I posted, years ago, my audio of the crazy conversation
with the Apple Genius Bar employees, who don't even know what a decibel is
(neither did Jolly Roger, Lewis, nospam, BK@OnRamp, etc.).
Suffice to say I'm pretty good at WiFi, having set up WISP networks all
over my neighborhood, where I've proved many times that I can hold any one
of three iPads against any one of my many Android phones in my very hands,
and walk around my rather large house of many floors with over a dozen
access points, where _clearly_ the iOS device is _always_ less reliable in
noticing and connecting (hence switching) to the stronger access point.
Those are facts above that are easily proven (and which have been proven).
Your statement that Android is "less reliable" and "less polished" may or
may not be true - but as an adult - I would expect a fact backing up that
statement.
My belief system is based on facts so I expect facts from you on yours.
It's how adults communicate, and it's how we can agree or disagree.
I would agree with you on the fact that there may be far more _chances_ for
Android to "get complex" for a simple user such as the average users Jolly
Roger, BK@OnRamp, etc., where for _them_, the complexities involved in
having choices may inundate them.
But for an average adult, I don't think there's any good evidence presented
yet that shows that Android is any less reliable than iOS is, if we assume
we're comparing comparable hardware phones.
For example, let's not compare a $35 Android p;hone with a $1500 iOS phone
if we want to look at reliability and polish.
Since my LG Stylo 3 Plus is $130, and since it compares favorably with
hardware on the vive times more expensive iPhone 7 Plus, I would consider
_those_ two phones a reasonable comparison on reliability and polish
though.
I would then ask, how does the reliability & polish of these two phones
compare?
* $640 iPhone 7 Plus
* $130 LG Stylo 3 Plus
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/HDI8moW_4Pw%5B1-25%5D>
If you ask me to run a reliability or polish test, I can run it on that
Android phone against one of my many iPads (the latest being on iOS 11.2.6
which it was born with).
> I do wish there was more customization allowed on my Apple
> devices though.
I think there's a certain "type" of user who gravitates to the lack of
customization on iOS products - but I haven't figure out exactly what about
that lack of customization appeals to them.
I think it could be that they don't even realize what you and I know.
Or, it could be that they don't care (giving up is easily done).
Or, it could be that they stay wholly within the Apple ecosystem?
Or it could even be, as the Apologists love to say, that this lack of
customization proves *safety & security* benefits as a tradeoff.
I don't know why it appeals so very much to the average Apple user - but I
will agree wholeheartedly with you that iOS lacks the customization that
users on all other common consumer platforms simply take for granted.
> I do agree though that a sense of superiority and smugness seems
> prevalent among many Apple enthusiasts, but that's not limited only to
> them in this newsgroup.
Why I think it's important is that I have been studying the Apple user for
about two decades.
In the beginning, I would try to "reason" with the average Apple user.
For years, it bothered me immensely, for example, trying to reason with the
likes of nospam, Jolly Roger, Lewis, Chris, Meanie, BK@OnRamp, Alan Bakerm
Tim Streater, Savageduck, Hemidactylus, Your Name, etc.
You can't reason with those dozen users like you would with an adult.
Basically, as I've said many times, the only conclusion that is possible:
o Is that they're actually _that_ childish or dumb, or,
o They are just playing their silly childish games _all the time_.
There are no other reasonable conclusions that can be made based on what
they write on Usenet.
However ... lately ... I've come to think it's something somewhat
different, which is that they have a religious belief system on Apple
products.
I use the word "religious" because it is intended to mean that a "God" has
spoken (that God being Apple Marketing), where everything that God says, is
taken as gospel, even as there is no evidence or proof backing up that
dogma.
I think, it could be, that these average Apple users are so beholden to
this religious belief in whatever that God tells them, that their minds are
completely closed to facts to the contrary.
If that is true (and it appears to fit the facts), then ...
o Is it really appropriate to call them _dumb_ or _childish_?
If they were simply religious zealots, to, say, a Jim Jones' type of god,
would I consider them childishly dumb or stupid - or - would I just
consider them under the influence of a god-like proponent of ideas that
just don't hold up to facts?
I do not know the answer to this question, but, there are a certain set of
about a dozen average Apple users on this newsgroup who fit that assessment
that they're not really as dumb or childish as they sound - they're just
under the divine influence of a god-like dogma that leaves them no room to
consider facts to the contrary of what that God tells them.
In summary, I agree with all your assessments, where Android has its flaws
for sure (e.g., assigning a drive letter on Windows over MTP), but where
you seem to _understand_ and _comprehend_ *exactly* what the iOS product
is, and what it isn't.
Hence, kudos to you for _comprehending_ what is, and for having a logical
fact-based adult perspective on the analysis of those facts.
JF Mezei
Oct 17, 2018, 3:34:05 PM10/17/18
to
On 2018-10-16 12:39, nospam wrote:
> restore from backup would probably have worked (that's what backups are
> for), and since it's a new phone, there's nothing to wipe out.
restore from backup would essentially zap the new phone and copy the old
> restore from backup would probably have worked (that's what backups are
> for), and since it's a new phone, there's nothing to wipe out.
phone SETTINGs to the new phone. The "restore" itself does not restore
any music or photos to the phone, but it is often automatically followed
by a sync which does copy the music and photos (and whether else your
sync is configured to sync (contacts etc)
JF Mezei
Oct 17, 2018, 3:41:47 PM10/17/18
to
On 2018-10-16 13:13, badgolferman wrote:
> The question I originally posed was about manually copying the songs
> over to the new phone. Fortunately iTunes provided the hint of the
> location and I was able to copy them over to the new device manually.
A "restore" would have wiped your new AppleID, setting up the phone with
> The question I originally posed was about manually copying the songs
> over to the new phone. Fortunately iTunes provided the hint of the
> location and I was able to copy them over to the new device manually.
old Apple ID.
But a SYNC doesn't do that, it merely copies the media you have told
SYNC to synchronise in whatrever direction.
When you get your phone plugged into iTunes, you get "settings" and the
categories such as
Summary
Music
Movies TV Shows
Podcasts
Books
Photos
Info
File sharing
(to get that panel, on the OS-X version, you need to click the tiny
iphone icon that appears after you plug in phone on the top left
basically below the volume corntrol.)
Clicking on each of those categories lets you define the synching
policy. (for instance, you can specifu individual movies to sync)
A sync will generally cause a backup to be made, but not a restore.
nospam
Oct 17, 2018, 3:46:46 PM10/17/18
to
In article <M8MxD.167381$MJ2....@fx11.iad>, JF Mezei
however, he later said he had already configured it and also wanted to
not be under mdm.
> and copy the old
> phone SETTINGs to the new phone.
it restores everything.
> The "restore" itself does not restore
> any music or photos to the phone, but it is often automatically followed
> by a sync which does copy the music and photos (and whether else your
> sync is configured to sync (contacts etc)
restore includes a sync. you're arguing semantics.
<jfmezei...@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>
> > restore from backup would probably have worked (that's what backups are
> > for), and since it's a new phone, there's nothing to wipe out.
>
> restore from backup would essentially zap the new phone
since the phone is new, there's nothing on it to zap. it's blank.
>
> > restore from backup would probably have worked (that's what backups are
> > for), and since it's a new phone, there's nothing to wipe out.
>
> restore from backup would essentially zap the new phone
however, he later said he had already configured it and also wanted to
not be under mdm.
> and copy the old
> phone SETTINGs to the new phone.
> The "restore" itself does not restore
> any music or photos to the phone, but it is often automatically followed
> by a sync which does copy the music and photos (and whether else your
> sync is configured to sync (contacts etc)
Arlen Holder
Oct 17, 2018, 6:06:55 PM10/17/18
to
On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 15:41:45 -0400, JF Mezei wrote:
> A sync will generally cause a backup to be made, but not a restore.
I have used the iTunes abomination over the years for a half-dozen iPods.
> A sync will generally cause a backup to be made, but not a restore.
*The main issue with iTunes is that it uses an unrealistic default model.*
*In addition, iTunes has a well known propensity to _destroy_ your data!*
*Apple has admitted it destroys songs that it didn't want on your device.*
(See proof in the references below)
Because of that unrealistic default model, the iTunes abomination is
extremely dangerous to use.
For example, due to the iTunes abomination unrealistic default model, you
must maintain a separate fully stocked "library" on the desktop of each and
every device - which is a completely unrealistic use model.
In my case, with a half dozen iPods, and as with the case of millions of
other sensible people, I didn't want _any_ MP3 songs on the desktop, let
alone a separate library for each one, since I bought the iPods to play the
songs, not the desktop.
If you don't use this default model, then iTunes will *destroy* your entire
collection of MP3 songs, sans any temporal warning whatsoever - despite
what the Apple Apologists will state (since they apologize for iTunes).
*Apple admits* it deleted non-iTunes music off iPods
<https://www.digitaltrends.com/music/apple-deleted-non-itunes-music-off-ipods-for-two-years-answers-for-it-in-court/>
*Apple acknowledges* reports of personal music files being deleted by iTunes
<https://9to5mac.com/2016/05/13/apple-officially-acknowledges-reports-of-personal-music-files-being-deleted-itunes-update-coming-next-week-to-hopefully-fix-the-bug/>
iTunes 12.2 update will ruin your existing library.
<https://www.copytrans.net/blog/itunes-12-2-update-may-ruin-your-existing-library-what-we-know-so-far-and-how-to-fix/>
What to Do When iTunes Deletes Your Entire Music Collection
<https://www.imyfone.com/phone-data-transfer/itunes-deleted-my-music/>
iTunes deleted all of my songs that were not purchased! HELP
<https://www.cnet.com/forums/discussions/itunes-deleted-all-of-my-songs-that-were-not-purchased-help-539840/>
Itunes Deleted My Music
<https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2594113>
Itunes merged my music and destroyed my organisation
<https://ask.metafilter.com/32787/Itunes-merged-my-music-and-destroyed-my-organisation-can-this-be-undone>
Help? iTunes Deleted All of My Music Off My iPod
<https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/529589/help-itunes-deleted-all-of-my-music-off-my-ipod/>
iTunes deleted my music, how do I get it back?
<https://www.easeus.com/iphone-recovery/recover-music-files-deleted-by-itunes.html>
How to Undelete iPod Lost Music with Four Methods
<https://www.isunshare.com/ios/how-to-undelete-ipod-lost-music-with-four-methods.html>
Apple Music Deleted My Library, Help!
<https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/apple-music-deleted-library-heres-can/>
iTunes deleted all my music off my iPod
<https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/all-music-deleted-from-ipod.869071/>
Stupid itunes deleted all my songs from my ipod?
<https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081113101629AApSTg5>
Itunes 11 deleted ALL my music!
<https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4558491>
Help, iTunes deleted my entire iTunes library!
<https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/help-i-accidentally-deleted-my-entire-itunes-library.359322/>
My Ipod got completely wiped out by iTunes
<https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080625171250AATzwPp>
iTunes Just Wiped Out My Music Library
<https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/itunes-just-wiped-out-my-music-library.107742/>
(The tales of woe go on forever of iTunes wiping out people's libraries.)
In response, as always with Apple Apologists, these statements go together:
o "You're holding it wrong", and,
o "We have always been at war with Eurasia".
nospam
Oct 17, 2018, 6:13:35 PM10/17/18
to
In article <pq8bpu$1va$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen Holder
without reading what would happen when clicked and then blamed everyone
but yourself for your own fuckup.
<a%rlenh...@no.spam.net> wrote:
>
> I have used the iTunes abomination over the years for a half-dozen iPods.
no you haven't. you used it once a long time ago, you clicked a button
>
> I have used the iTunes abomination over the years for a half-dozen iPods.
without reading what would happen when clicked and then blamed everyone
but yourself for your own fuckup.
Arlen Holder
Oct 17, 2018, 6:14:35 PM10/17/18
to
They're completely different bikes and bikers.
But ... get this ... an *adult* (i.e., not you nospam) can see facts.
Any _adult_ (hint, not you nospam), can see the difference between them.
o The riders are different
o The ride is different
o The bikes are different
O Even the sound is different
Adult have no problem dealing with *facts*.
It's only you Apple Apologists, nospam, who can't handle facts.
For decades, I've wondered why, where it's perplexing because:
o Nobody can be consistently _that_ stupid, as you appear to be, &
o Nobody has the time to play that many silly games all day.
I think, in the end, the reason the dozen Apple Apologists on this
newsgroup can't handle facts is either one or both of the above, or
o They have a religious belief system that has no room for facts.
The facts are simple:
Everything they post fits one of those three explanations above.
a. The dozen Apple Apologists really are _that_ stupid, and/or,
b. They incessantly play silly games all day, and/or
c. They're beholden to a religious dogma that has no room for facts.
Arlen Holder
Oct 17, 2018, 7:06:13 PM10/17/18
to
On 17 Oct 2018 16:33:11 GMT, Jolly Roger wrote:
> In general when you send a
> file by tapping the share icon, apps that can receive that type of file
> show up in the list, and you tap one of them to send it to that app.
> Then you open the app to work with the file.
Except when it doesn't, which is a _lot_ of the time.
> In most cases, backing up regularly is as easy
> as tapping or clicking a button.
Except when it's not, which is a _lot_ of the time.
> Meh. I use Apple devices to get shit done.
That's pretty funny ... coming from you, since you must _know_ there is a
ton of useful things that just can't be done with iOS but that which _all_
other common consumer platforms do without any effort whatsoever.
> Customization is a lesser
> concern as long as that primary need is met (and it is).
Of course since "you just give up" on customization.
HINT: Every other common consumer platform customizes easily except iOS.
In short, the _user_ who gravitates to iOS, is not like normal adults.
> In general when you send a
> file by tapping the share icon, apps that can receive that type of file
> show up in the list, and you tap one of them to send it to that app.
> Then you open the app to work with the file.
Except when it doesn't, which is a _lot_ of the time.
> In most cases, backing up regularly is as easy
> as tapping or clicking a button.
Except when it's not, which is a _lot_ of the time.
> Meh. I use Apple devices to get shit done.
That's pretty funny ... coming from you, since you must _know_ there is a
ton of useful things that just can't be done with iOS but that which _all_
other common consumer platforms do without any effort whatsoever.
> Customization is a lesser
> concern as long as that primary need is met (and it is).
Of course since "you just give up" on customization.
HINT: Every other common consumer platform customizes easily except iOS.
In short, the _user_ who gravitates to iOS, is not like normal adults.
nospam
Oct 17, 2018, 7:23:50 PM10/17/18
to
In article <pq8f94$6mp$1...@news.mixmin.net>, Arlen Holder
it's the rare exception when it can't and there's usually a good
reason, such as the receiving app doesn't understand the format, so
sharing it won't be of much use.
> > In most cases, backing up regularly is as easy
> > as tapping or clicking a button.
>
> Except when it's not, which is a _lot_ of the time.
wrong.
it's actually a lot more effort to fully back up an android device,
including requiring root to include *everything*.
an ios device can be set to auto-backup, no taps required. any time
it's connected to a charger (any charger), it backs itself up.
not only that, but with quick-setup, restoration is trivial. hold the
new and old phones near each other, a couple of steps to confirm the
process, and the restoration begins. no additional apps required.
<a%rlenh...@no.spam.net> wrote:
>
> > In general when you send a
> > file by tapping the share icon, apps that can receive that type of file
> > show up in the list, and you tap one of them to send it to that app.
> > Then you open the app to work with the file.
>
> Except when it doesn't, which is a _lot_ of the time.
wrong. in nearly every case, files can be shared.
>
> > In general when you send a
> > file by tapping the share icon, apps that can receive that type of file
> > show up in the list, and you tap one of them to send it to that app.
> > Then you open the app to work with the file.
>
> Except when it doesn't, which is a _lot_ of the time.
it's the rare exception when it can't and there's usually a good
reason, such as the receiving app doesn't understand the format, so
sharing it won't be of much use.
> > In most cases, backing up regularly is as easy
> > as tapping or clicking a button.
>
> Except when it's not, which is a _lot_ of the time.
it's actually a lot more effort to fully back up an android device,
including requiring root to include *everything*.
an ios device can be set to auto-backup, no taps required. any time
it's connected to a charger (any charger), it backs itself up.
not only that, but with quick-setup, restoration is trivial. hold the
new and old phones near each other, a couple of steps to confirm the
process, and the restoration begins. no additional apps required.
Arlen Holder
Oct 17, 2018, 7:45:46 PM10/17/18
to
On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 19:23:49 -0400, nospam wrote:
> an ios device can be set to auto-backup, no taps required. any time
> it's connected to a charger (any charger), it backs itself up.
And tell us again how that iOS device backs up all the IPAs (APKs in
> an ios device can be set to auto-backup, no taps required. any time
> it's connected to a charger (any charger), it backs itself up.
Android speak) such that they can be restored to _any_ similar device on
the planet at any time in the future.
HINT: Android does that automatically with any decent free backup app.
Look nospam, you can snow most of the iOS gullibles - but you forget I have
plenty of iOS devices where they can't do even the _simplest_ of things
that all other common consumer platforms do.
The fact is that iOS is so very different that it takes a different kind of
human being to "like" being restricted with such a primitive interface of
Orwellian proportions.
What the iOS user *loves*, apparently, is being told exactly what to do,
and exactly how to do it, by Apple Marketing.
The iOS user loves, apparently, being imprisoned in the walled garden.
Apparently the high walls of the walled garden makes them *feel* safe.
Arlen Holder
Oct 17, 2018, 7:52:27 PM10/17/18
to
On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 18:13:38 -0400, nospam wrote:
> no you haven't. you used it once a long time ago, you clicked a button
> without reading what would happen when clicked and then blamed everyone
> but yourself for your own fuckup.
Since you Apple Apologists are as predictable as five year olds, I already
> no you haven't. you used it once a long time ago, you clicked a button
> without reading what would happen when clicked and then blamed everyone
> but yourself for your own fuckup.
explained that this is exactly what you'd say.
All you need to know, in response, is the beginning and end of my
references in the prior note, to wit...
BEGINNING (facts for adults)
*Apple admits* it deleted non-iTunes music off iPods
<https://www.digitaltrends.com/music/apple-deleted-non-itunes-music-off-ipods-for-two-years-answers-for-it-in-court/>
*Apple acknowledges* reports of personal music files being deleted by iTunes
<https://9to5mac.com/2016/05/13/apple-officially-acknowledges-reports-of-personal-music-files-being-deleted-itunes-update-coming-next-week-to-hopefully-fix-the-bug/>
ENDING (excuses by the Apple Apologists):
<https://www.digitaltrends.com/music/apple-deleted-non-itunes-music-off-ipods-for-two-years-answers-for-it-in-court/>
*Apple acknowledges* reports of personal music files being deleted by iTunes
<https://9to5mac.com/2016/05/13/apple-officially-acknowledges-reports-of-personal-music-files-being-deleted-itunes-update-coming-next-week-to-hopefully-fix-the-bug/>
o *"You're holding it wrong"*, and,
0 new messages