> As maymay requested on Rebecca's Facebook note, I'm posting a link to
> a copy of the slideshow we wrote the night before the KFADEN event.
>
> […]
>
> Secondly, maymay said (on the same facebook note) that there were
> individuals who stood with us and felt mislead about the nature of the
> protest, and that they regretted standing with us. I would encourage
> any who felt that way to speak publicly about their experience, much
> of our aim was to give a voice to those who were otherwise rendered
> invisible and it's important to me that someone who gave their voice
> to that and regretted it have the ability to retract their
> participation and why they regret their actions.
For those interested, that reference to Facebook is here:
https://www.facebook.com/notes/rebecca-crane/kinkforall-denver-rumor-control/10150557701106536
I appreciate the amount of work you put into writing URLs onto the mailing list archives in your slides, Isaac. I wish you'd done the same linking to the Facebook thread in your email just now, for all the reasons I already mentioned on Facebook.
Cheers,
-maymay
Blog: http://maybemaimed.com
Talk show: http://KinkOnTap.com
Community: http://KinkForAll.org
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "KinkForAll" group.
To post to this group, send email to kinkf...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
kinkforall+...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
https://groups.google.com/group/kinkforall?hl=en
Visit and contribute to the KinkForAll wiki at
http://wiki.KinkForAll.org
Are you calling me a liar, Jeff? For your own sake, you better trust
me when I say I won't ever forget you've done that.
Cheers,
-maymay
Blog: http://maybemaimed.com
Talk show: http://KinkOnTap.com
Community: http://KinkForAll.org
Also, this is worth saying:
On Feb 28, 2012, at 7:30 PM, Jeff Jizz wrote:
> For my own sake??? What are you implying Maymay? Are we resorting to threats now?
Jeff, thanks to your consistent ad-hominen insults against me and others even before this thread started,[1][2] you shouldn't misinterpret my words to you as a threat. Think of them more like a promise. It's a promise that means exactly what I said: I will never forget your behavior.
I don't appreciate being called "a blog whore,"[1] beyond the fact that using "whore" as a slur is not acceptable in the first place. I also don't appreciate that you said this in reference to Alisa:[2]
> Lol oh look another star fucker. Just read her blog and you can see whose blog whoring dick is up her ass. Blog culture is dumb and full of sheep.
If you're surprised that I'm not afraid to verbally bash back after seeing misogynistic comments you made about people in relation to KinkForAll, you're even more deluded than I thought. You deserve no more attention from me.
Cheers,
-maymay
Blog: http://maybemaimed.com
Talk show: http://KinkOnTap.com
Community: http://KinkForAll.org
EXTERNAL REFERENCES:
[0] https://www.facebook.com/notes/rebecca-crane/kinkforall-denver-rumor-control/10150557701106536
[1] https://fetlife.com/users/19763/pictures/9692007#comment_26447189
[2] https://fetlife.com/users/461781/posts/933149#post_comment_2993226
---- BEGIN COPY OF RESPONSE TO MABEL ON FACEBOOK ----
> Mabel, first, thank you and the rest of the T-Haus folks kindly for letting me crash on your couch the other night after my alternative plans fell through.[0]
>
> Second, I apologize for the verbosity of this reply. I am choosing length over brevity in favor of adding depth to this conversation. Unfortunately, Facebook limits comments to a certain length which I've exceeded, so this comment is chunked into a set. Again, my apologies for whatever inconvenience this causes you.
>
> Thing is, since numerous people in this thread, such as Isaac and yourself, have expressed distaste at "reading blogs" and so on, even though that's where the majority of this stuff has already been hashed out in my own history, I feel it's worth actually writing this through rather than simply linking you to those existing references. That said, I'm still going to embed many links in this post so please feel free to ALSO follow up with those references if you are moved to do so.
>
> And also, I do hope you're moved to read the linked references. I understand that these communiqués are not your cup of tea, but in the spirit of meeting people where they are, please understand that, as a cyborg, it is important to me that those who care enough to understand and listen to my perspective do so in a way that lets me make use of the toolset for interacting with the world in the way that I have learned to survive in it.[1] I feel this is the corollary to listening to you and asking clarifying questions rather than rebutting you when you confronted me at Bearsnail's tour kickoff the other night.[2]
>
> In other words: I was not paying you lip service, I *did* listen to you, as I have to many others. However, perhaps partly because we did not get a chance to finish our conversation that night, I did not feel heard by you. That's okay; our conversation that night was not about you listening to me, it was about me listening to you. In THIS comment, despite its verbosity, however, I request the same courtesy from you: please “listen” (read) as many of my words in their full and original context as you feel willing to do, even if it does mean you spend more time than you'd like at your computer doing so. :)
>
> I want to address your comment specifically, Mabel, because I feel that our conversation the other night *was* productive and useful, and, like I said then, I greatly respected the way you spoke your mind directly to me. This makes me feel a great deal *more* respect for you than I do for others, notably, Isaac or Jeff, precisely because of your willingness to have and stick with difficult emotional conversations in a manner that doesn't rely on sensationalist, decontextualized performance art that makes some of its own participants feel apologetic for participating in it. It's this respect I have for you that makes me confident in my belief engaging with you will be productive to the larger conversation I started back on the mailing list those many weeks ago, rather than contribute more stop energy[3] to this thread, like I already see others doing. (And, modeling that directness, I'm looking at Saskia's earlier comment when I say "stop energy".)
>
> So, Mabel, you say:
>
>> "We were in no danger of being taken over by the BDSM scene in a way that would have made KFADEN ruinously inaccessible to the folks who might already be fearful of the word kink[…]."
>
> Perhaps this is true. On the other hand, perhaps it is not. I remain skeptical, so I invite you to work through a postmortem analysis with me.
>
> If we take a look at the resulting schedule grid from KFADEN,[4] I can count at least 7 sessions out of the 41 that are currently listed that were what I would describe as "BDSM-centric." These were:
>
> * Kink 101 - Crow
> * Female Top/Switch Invisibility - Kari
> * Creating Change Conference and Kink Politics
> * Silence is Golden - Isaac
> * Injecting Fun into Kink - Heather Daisy
> * Class, Inclusivity, and BDSM/"Kink" Discussion - Owen
> * Kink and Mental Health - Jeff
>
> If in this count I also include sessions whose focus feels to me to be somewhat fuzzy in that respect, or whose contents felt to me to be using "kink" specifically to contrast with "vanilla,"[5] then the number jumps to 10 and includes the following additional sessions.
>
> * Intersections of Mental Health, Sexuality, and Community - Evey
> * Intersections of Trans and Kink Identities - Alyssa
> * Human Centered Design for Better Community Experience -Alisa
>
> Out of 41 sessions, 10 spoke directly to or were mostly influenced by BDSM-centric ideologies. I want to be clear here that when I say "BDSM-centric ideologies" I am not also saying "bad and not worth presenting." In fact, Alyssa and Alisa's sessions were two of my personal favorites. Nevertheless, as an example, Alisa's case study was about sexually submissive men; that's BDSM specific. Alyssa's session drew parallels between trans identity and experience and "kink" identities ala "sexuality that is forbidden,"[6] and, later, participants in the discussion Alyssa started referenced BDSM more precisely at some points.[7] (Which, as an aside, I think is AWESOME and something I'm so glad to see others doing—so, THANK YOU, Alyssa, for that session!—since I'm often attacked for doing similar things.)[8]
>
> So 10 sessions out of 41 is 24.39%. If we make equal space for discussions about non-BDSM topic-centrism, that leaves only 3 other dominant topics. Looking at the schedule grid again, I would say that there *was* at least one different dominant topic: gender. Alyssa made this point beautifully in an earlier comment in this thread!
>
> It's also not just Alyssa's experience. Take a brief listen to the first couple of minutes of the "Opening Your Relationship" session recorded from the livestream. In particular, listen for these quotes, right at the beginning of the video:[9]
>
> Person wearing blue: "I'm actually surprised that more of the community didn't come down today."
>
> Person off-camera: "Well, I'd say that, A) the crowd here seems to be skewed young, but more importantly, especially if you look at the topics, it's skewed towards gender issues and—"
>
> Person wearing blue: "Right, right."
>
> Person off-camera: "—not so much, well, I saw a little bit on what I would consider to be 'kink', and very little on what I would consider relationship organizations. I think it's just a matter of the crowd."
>
> Note also that the majority of the BDSM-centric sessions occurred before Isaac's session, which is one reason I'm so glad Isaac's session went the way it did. This is actually a REALLY IMPORTANT point. By way of example, please let me share some anecdotes of my own experience during the day.
>
> In the first session slot at 10:40 AM in Room C, Crow presented "Kink 101."[10] I encourage you to listen to this presentation as it is exemplary of the sort of thing I want to discourage from KinkForAll precisely because its content is so pervasive—and rather essentialist in a whole slew of repulsive ways—elsewhere in BDSM communities. Crow seemed really excited to give the presentation, which is awesome; I don't know whether or not Crow has ever given presentations to BDSM community organizations in the past, but if Saskia and Jeff are still reading, perhaps this would be a good opportunity for them to invite Crow to do something along the lines of that "Kink 101" session in their RACK Room space?
>
> Here's the thing: when I went over the pictures of the schedule grid for KFADEN (and let me insert a HUGE thanks to Dakota for taking so many awesome pictures of this throughout the day!), I noticed that Crow also signed up on to do a talk called "What To Do When Your Scene Turns South", which you can see was slated for 1:40 PM in Room C.[11]
>
> After Isaac's session, I saw Crow leave KFADEN. I overheard them saying very loudly, "It appears SOME OF US are unwelcome here," to which I responded by calling out, "Thank you for doing your thing earlier today." And they said, "Yeah," and left. Someone must have taken Crow's sticky note off the schedule grid and it was eventually replaced by Dakota's "Using Gender Neutral Pronouns." After KFADEN was over, I learned that it was the tweets about this "using GNPs" session[12] that caught Paula’s eye, who volunteered during Closing Essential Communications[13] to get the ball rolling for KFADEN2 or for KinkForAll Boulder, to get on a bus and head down to the event.
>
> Mabel, when we talked about the "overabundance of BDSM-centric presentations" at KinkForAll, you skeptically asked me if this had been a problem in the past. I said yes. Bluntly, I did not feel you believed me. I tried to articulate to you the way I felt it important to disentangle two things: 1) the fact that the word "kink" lacks cross-cultural consensus and is thus illegible to many[14] and 2) the distinction between systemic perspectives/structural influences and individualistic perspectives/autonomous actions.[15]
>
> I commend you (and Siren, and others) for critiquing the power I have as a "founder" of KinkForAll. I believe power always deserves criticism, even if we agree with it, we should fucking criticize it. So you and others are totally on-point with some of your critiques regarding the powerful influences I have on the KinkForAll mailing list and other such spaces.[16] What I feel is missing from your critiques, however, is an awareness of what I am doing with this power, and why.
>
> You say:
>
>> "I really think you did more harm than good in your participation in KFADEN and I fear you're going to continue this pattern elsewhere, as it's become such a part of your explicitly stated role."
>
> I am genuinely curious: Do you really believe that? If so, in coming to that conclusion, are you also considering all the forces at play that make anecdotes like the one I shared above possible, in the first place? Do you see what else I could be doing with the power I have as an influential force related to KinkForAll? E.g., I could have easily made KinkForAll *THE* unconference/convergence for the BDSM Scene. It would have been easy; all I would have had to do was nothing challenging at all.
>
> If I had done nothing, KinkForAll would have been overrun by what I termed on the mailing list "privileged BDSM bullshit" very, very quickly. Take a look at past session grids:
>
> * Out of 46 sessions, KFANYC1 had 25 BDSM-centric sessions, and many of these were explicitly play related. (See, for instance "Suturing 101," "Basic Rope," "Seven Piercing Disasters," and so on.)[17] That's 54.34%.
> * Out of 42 sessions, KFANYC2 had 17 BDSM-centric sessions.[18] That's 40.47%.
> * Out of 28 sessions, KFABOS had 14 BDSM-centric sessions.[19] That's 50%.
> * Out of 14 sessions, KFASF had 5 BDSM-centric sessions.[20] That's 35.71%.
>
> I could go on, but I think you get the point. Contrast this to KFADEN, which, as I mentioned, had 41 sessions and 10 BDSM-centric ones (24.39%), or even less if we consider just the first count of 7. On the other hand, if we assume that, for instance, Saskia's original topic suggestions of "Temporary body mod/art (would need volunteer bodies willing to be stapled/sutured/pierced), Biofeedback breathing for pain and stress management and for enhancing play time, Lead discussion on erotic humiliation vs degradation" would have actually happened, then the BDSM-centrism we are talking about would have been even *more* pronounced at KFADEN.
>
> Moreover, this creates what I've called "perlocutionary effects," an indirect influence over future topics. One example of this in action can be observed by listening to the "three word intros" in the Opening Essential Communications session at the beginning of the day at KFADEN. Right before the beginning of the "Energetic Fucking" session,[21] Sable made the observation that the whole three word intros things privileges those with simple identities and marginalizes people with more complex identities. This is a good observation but an off-point critique because the three word intros are just that: three *words.*
>
> If you listen to the livestream recording of that session, what you'll hear is numerous people using words that aren't very identity-centric at first. For example, one person said, "Curious, confused, here!" In the past, I've used three-word phrases like, "I'm so exhausted!" or “Travelled from SF!” However, as we continued around the room, and as more people chose to use identity-centric words to introduce themselves, it became a game of telephone. By the time we got around to Sable, my guess is that people understood "three word intros" to *mean* "three identity labels." But that's a perlocutionary effect[22] of the space, i.e., an individual's interpolation of previous people's individual actions, *not* a part of KinkForAll's structural building blocks.
>
> (As an aside, nevertheless, perhaps this is an area where KinkForAll's format can be improved, and if anyone has suggestions about how to modify this part of the Essential Communications templates[23] that acknowledges perlocutionary effects exists whether we like it or not, yet remains structurally supportive of autonomous actions, I invite you to bring those ideas up for discussion on the KinkForAll mailing list.)[24]
>
> What I have learned is that the more antagonistic I am to the BDSM Scene, the more space my actions as an individual are able to create for, in Alyssa's words, "people who are frequently silenced or made invisible even in sex-positive spaces." And this gets personal for me because, bluntly, I am one of those people.[25] It's also worth noting that there *is* a distinction between "maymay" and "KinkForAll," and while I *do* have an enormous amount of influence over KinkForAll relative to, say, Isaac, that does not make it appropriate or acceptable to treat me as having the same kind of power nor the equivalent amount of it as a structural force with systemic biases against the work I am trying to do for myself to make my life worth living.
>
> I fucking run myself into the ground almost every damn time I support a local unorganizer (Rebecca Crane, in this case), and the REASON I do that is precisely because I am aware that "whoever does the work owns the conference," to use Alisa's words.[26] Period. If I want to own the conference, then I better fucking get flyers printed and distribute them, have meetings with people who might share our space, video record something, do a session, go to events that I've never considered going to before to talk up the event so people who I'd never otherwise meet will hear about the event, document the methodology and then send people those resources when they ask for help, buy snacks, fund raise, make contingency plans, and so much more.
>
> That does not mean others' contributions, such as yours, are not appreciated or important. They are! What it means is that your efforts are not directed in the same direction as mine. And that's WHY your contributions are so valuable. KFADEN could not have happened without you, Mabel, and like I said when we spoke, I am grateful to you for that. What I ask of you, please, is to recognize that my actions are targeted, intentional, sorely fucking lacking, and arguably more integrious than many of my detractors' actions precisely BECAUSE I have expressly stated my intentions, I make my actions accountable to MYSELF rather than hiding behind organizational red tape, and I do not start rumors or whisper campaigns about petty shit like "misappropriation of funds" in the amounts of $25, which I have been repeatedly questioned about. That is some serious derailing bullshit right there and I would like to have some heated words with whoever's thoughtless enough to spread lies about me.[27]
>
> These petty rumors are infuriating and ultimately feckless in comparison to many others I've had to deal with in the past,[28] but they do serve as an illustrative reminder of what sorts of things happen when one challenges a systemic force—and I believe you are capable of understanding the ways in which the BDSM Scene is a systemic force with power worth criticizing.[29] And also like I told you that night when we spoke, it has been *physically dangerous* for me to be as open as I am about the pains I have experienced and others have written, spoken, and cried to me about at the hands of the BDSM Scene for a long time. And again, let me be clear: I do NOT mean "at Saskia or Jeff's hands," but rather I mean at the hands of the *institutions known as Scenes.* And in this, I do not limit my critique to the BDSM Scene, but rather to all social structures that are affected by what Corey Robin calls "the private life of power."[30]
>
> So, yes, I have power. I genuinely thank you for critiquing my powers. I also ask that when you do so, please be mindful of what I am doing with this power. I don't believe your intent is to make me feel guilty for using my power, but even if it is, I refuse to feel that way.[31] Please understand that my actions come from a place of both extremely deep personal grievance and anger, as well as an extremely well-thought out tactical and strategic plan of action. Please believe me when I say I am *extremely* aware of the privileges I have. I ask that if you are unwilling or unable to hear my whole story and my critiques of the BDSM Scene,[32][33][34][35][36][37][38][39][40] (please, please, please read the many things I have written about my experiences if you would like to get to know me or why I choose to do what I do) at least believe me when I assure you that I am mindful of where, how, and for what ends I am using these privileges, the powers that come with them, and the contexts in which I am choosing to exert them.[41] I am using this power in a way no one else seems to be doing precisely because no one thinks doing what I am doing is worth doing. And that, frankly, is something I find closed-minded about your critique thus far because it does not acknowledge that a diversity of tactics is as important as a diversity of topics.
>
> On that note, let me share another anecdote. At KFADEN, someone came up to me and remarked that they found my critique of The RACK Room[15] to be unfounded because, and I'm paraphrasing, "It's unfair to make that critique just based on the photos hung on the walls." I answered this person by asking, "Did you follow any of the links and read their content?" They answered, "No." So I said, "Consider the fact that my critique is not solely based on this one thing, and consider also that you could learn more about my views if you followed those links."
>
> That is why I feel insulted and my experience trivialized, Mabel, when you say things like this to me:
>
>> "Maymay, you'll recall at that point I brought up anti-oppression work, and the importance of shutting up and sitting aside when *repeatedly* called out for unwelcome silencing tactics rather than just going to the next city and playing out your power role all over again in what seems to be a deep-seated personal grudge match with BDSMers."
>
> I plead with you, please, do not think I have not thought what I am doing through. Do not make the mistake of treating me as though I am not able or willing to do the work of moving up when I feel it is appropriate for myself to do so, or of moving back when I understand that would be useful.
>
> I *do* understand that what I am doing appears to you to be just a "personal grudge match," but what that tells me is that you do not actually know me or my experiences. Thus, you are not yet able to empathize with me. That's okay, it's not your job to do so. But if you want to "call me out," please at least consider doing so AFTER making the effort to understand me in full, not just using cherry-picked quotes that pissed off some of your friends.
>
> And on that note, Isaac, you told me earlier that you were "sensitive to the fact that the gay community was also under represented on Saturday." Knowing this, I have to question why you found it a more valuable use of your time and energy to metaphorically stomp your foot and cry "Censorship!" instead of, I don't know, reaching out to your connections in the gay community and encouraging them to come to KinkForAll Denver. Frankly, due to your actions, I don't trust you, your motives, or your ability to understand the systemic influences under which you are operating.
>
> That being said, I still really appreciate your session, since it helped me achieve my goals for KFADEN and has helped me lay a fantastic foundation for future conversations about the complex intricacies of scoped power and privilege that are illegible to many people in sex-positive, queer, and radical movements. For that, I sincerely thank you, and I look forward to our future tussles. ;)
>
> Finally, Jeff, you said this in an earlier comment in this thread:
>
> "We helped organize this. All but one person at the Boulder unorganizing meeting was a BDSMer."
>
> So, hey, thanks for helping me prove my points. And in one sentence, no less. You're a rock star. Rock on.
>
> Cheers,
> -maymay
> http://maybemaimed.com/cv/
>
> EXTERNAL REFERENCES:
>
> [0] https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151332744335005&l=de9bb444ec
> [1] http://maymay.net/blog/2011/11/05/on-being-a-social-cyborg-how-icalendar-helps-me-fight-loneliness/
> [2] https://www.facebook.com/events/272982009436290/
> [3] http://maybemaimed.com/2010/02/24/open-thread-when-educators-are-censors/
> [4] http://wiki.KinkForAll.org/KinkForAllDenverSchedule
> [5] http://maybemaimed.com/2010/10/05/honor-thy-language-kinky-is-an-adjective-not-an-activity/
> [6] https://twitter.com/maymaym/status/174287768606883840
> [7] http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/20695631/highlight/245078
> [8] http://days.maybemaimed.com/post/17865402220/this-simple-information-graphic-depicts-various
> [9] http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/20695631/highlight/245063
> [10] http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/20690619/highlight/244756
> [11] http://www.flickr.com/photos/77347861@N02/6932687309/
> [12] https://twitter.com/drtangential/status/173494947503280128
> [13] http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/20697390/highlight/245088
> [14] http://maybemaimed.com/2012/02/23/invisibility-versus-illegibility-kinkforall-shows-how-kink-is-everything-you-didnt-know-it-can-be/
> [15] http://days.maybemaimed.com/post/17854730707/individualism-versus-systems-behavior-you-are-not-a
> [16] http://kinkinexile.wordpress.com/2012/02/05/baby-with-the-bath-water/#comment-1184
> [17] http://wiki.KinkForAll.org/KinkForAllNewYorkCitySchedule
> [18] http://wiki.KinkForAll.org/KinkForAllNewYorkCity2Schedule
> [19] http://wiki.KinkForAll.org/KinkForAllBostonSchedule
> [20] http://wiki.KinkForAll.org/KinkForAllSanFranciscoSchedule
> [21] http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/20690619/highlight/244765
> [22] https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Perlocutionary_act
> [23] http://wiki.KinkForAll.org/EssentialCommunications
> [24] http://wiki.KinkForAll.org/UsingTheKinkForAllMailingList
> [25] http://days.maybemaimed.com/post/10422252352/omnipresent-eroticization-can-suck-my-big
> [26] http://kinkinexile.wordpress.com/2012/02/27/create-awesome-or-create-cliques-your-choice/
> [27] https://groups.google.com/group/kinkforall/browse_thread/thread/3384fc7f07c26d34#msg_0414d440dea2fc4c
> [28] http://www.amptoons.com/blog/2010/04/06/salvation-army-attacks-sex-positive-activist-through-its-human-trafficking-email-list/
> [29] http://thirdxlucky.wordpress.com/2012/02/08/hate-all-the-systems-love-all-the-people/
> [30] http://days.maybemaimed.com/post/14858281678/p-olitical-motivated-firings-fit-into-a-much
> [31] https://twitter.com/maymaym/status/172985580844630016
> [32] http://maybemaimed.com/2011/05/19/story-of-how-to-improve-the-future-always-hate-the-status-quo/
> [33] http://days.maybemaimed.com/post/16036372049/the-bdsm-scenes-whiteness-is-classism-at-work
> [34] http://maybemaimed.com/2011/12/04/on-being-bondage-furniture/
> [35] http://maybemaimed.com/2011/06/02/signal-boost-the-devaluation-of-male-submission/
> [36] http://maybemaimed.com/2011/07/16/on-letting-the-world-burn/
> [37] http://maybemaimed.com/2011/04/20/we-are-all-victims-even-the-revolutionaries/
> [38] http://maybemaimed.com/2010/10/13/its-not-changing-the-world-thats-hard/
> [39] http://malesubmissionart.com/post/5498352136/an-opulently-dressed-man-in-greek-inspired
> [40] http://maybemaimed.com/2011/05/02/my-unreal-experience-on-the-kink-inc-armory-tour/
> [41] http://days.maybemaimed.com/post/17865402220/this-simple-information-graphic-depicts-various
---- END COPY OF RESPONSE TO MABEL ON FACEBOOK ----
Here is the thing though. It is my understanding some of the presentations which were shot down where not even BDSM related. They were just going to be shared by people who are prominant figures in the Colorado BDSM scene.
For example, one of the ideas was - and I cannot remember the exact name - was on breathing exercises and intimacy. Now this is classic Tantric work, not necessarily BDSM related at all. These basic breathing techniques are something Tantric practioners often charge quite a bit of money for a class like this. And we had someone willing to teach this stuff *for free*.
So, because of this personal vendetta against the BDSM scene, KFADen missed an oppurtuninty to receive a free class on something which normally runs anywhere from $25 to $100 per participant to take.
If "intentionally challenging" is code for "we want this to be a space where we can critique systematic problems in our various alt-sex communities, or maybe just realize that there are radically different possibilities for community organizing", then we should say exactly that.
imagine how the locals feel with your exploitation of kinkforall as a platform to run a sex negative campaign against an entire community you are not even a local member of.
I am glad you bring up the RACK room Maymay. You were granted accesd to my private space for the sole intention of promoting kinkforall. Without Kinkforall you never would have been let into that event, especially after your previous behavior on the group. You showed up with a notepad and proceded to take notes about the space and the individuals. You also left a BDSM bingo sheet next to the flyers which makes fun of BDSM presentations as a way to say fuck you to BDSM presenters. You used kinkforall to do this. You exploited kinkforall to gain access in a premeditated act to further your agenda. I dont care as much about the blog post itself, it is that you used kinkforall to violate that trust, especially after Saskia expressed reservations about it.
Maymay, when I say blog whore I mean that everything you do online is
meant to generate traffic to your blog. You even embed tags on this
group. You have a tactic of stirring up shit and then using that
exchange to drive more traffic. When I see a similar smearing tactic
against my peers it comes off as more of the same. Call my words
misogynistic if you need, but considering several of those upset at
you in that thread are local feminist activists, well I will leave it
at that.
Once again this is becoming about you, so I am ending this as I will
not participate in an SEO campaign for your blog.
People who know me or know Jeff and I have been whispering realize at this point whats about to happen.
I would say at least 50% of the attendees I saw were BDSM'ers and that number would have been much higher if shit did not hit the fan.
The KinkforAllDenver excluded BDSM? That's like a GOP convention excluding all Republicans.
Rebecca, I wasn't actually trying to talk about the "intentionally challenging" thing, but here too I think we'd be best served by radical transparency. If "intentionally challenging" is code for "we want this to be a space where we can critique systematic problems in our various alt-sex communities, or maybe just realize that there are radically different possibilities for community organizing", then we should say exactly that. I think that's a goal that a *lot* of us would already get behind; the coded language is both unnecessary and invites misunderstanding.
Ben
On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 12:56 PM, Sable Schultz <sable.t...@gmail.com> wrote:Here is the thing though. It is my understanding some of the presentations which were shot down where not even BDSM related. They were just going to be shared by people who are prominant figures in the Colorado BDSM scene.
For example, one of the ideas was - and I cannot remember the exact name - was on breathing exercises and intimacy. Now this is classic Tantric work, not necessarily BDSM related at all. These basic breathing techniques are something Tantric practioners often charge quite a bit of money for a class like this. And we had someone willing to teach this stuff *for free*.
So, because of this personal vendetta against the BDSM scene, KFADen missed an oppurtuninty to receive a free class on something which normally runs anywhere from $25 to $100 per participant to take.
Maymay, when I say blog whore I mean that everything you do online is
meant to generate traffic to your blog. You even embed tags on this
group. You have a tactic of stirring up shit and then using that
exchange to drive more traffic. When I see a similar smearing tactic
against my peers it comes off as more of the same. Call my words
misogynistic if you need, but considering several of those upset at
you in that thread are local feminist activists, well I will leave it
at that.
+1 Thank you ashi.
--
Oh, and I want to add, slamming anyone for making money off of any form of sex work - including, but not limited to - professional domination, running a bdsm club, or providing BDSM tools, supply, or knowledge is innapprate. It shows a decided lack of resepct for those attempting to survive in alternative markets in a very sex negative and puritanical society, and certial level of sex worker negitivity. And when coupled with a sentiment of "not anti-capitolist or anti-establishment enough" demonstrates a decided level of elitism and entitlement, and, to me, smacks of a certain level of economic privildge.
--
In my opinion, well said Jeff.
You derive compensation from the work you do, even if it is not your primary means of income. As far as I know of, that makes you a sex worker by most definitions I have seen.
Point the 1st: http://maybemaimed.com/2011/03/20/fetlife-considered-harmful/
Point the 2nd: http://maybemaimed.com/2012/03/02/help-me-check-bdsms-privilege-at-the-next-kinkforall-unconference/#comment-303561
Cheers,
-maymay
Blog: http://maybemaimed.com
Talk show: http://KinkOnTap.com
Community: http://KinkForAll.org
> What I do care about is your hissy fit because *some people disagreed with you*.
Oh, Isaac, that's a nice try at redirection, but a "hissy fit" is exactly what *you* had at KFADEN. There's an entire 22 paragraph article about it in the Westword. Do you need a link? :)
I sincerely appreciate your contributions to KinkForAll Denver, since KinkForAll Denver *is not about us.*[0]
If you're interested in getting your mind off some of this pettiness, I invite you to help Sable and I make more KFADEN media more accessible.[1] We need help with transcriptions, translations, and more.[2]
Regardless, I hope you have a pleasant rest of your evening.
Cheers,
-maymay
Blog: http://maybemaimed.com
Talk show: http://KinkOnTap.com
Community: http://KinkForAll.org
EXTERNAL REFERENCES:
[0] http://maybemaimed.com/2012/03/02/help-me-check-bdsms-privilege-at-the-next-kinkforall-unconference/
[1] https://groups.google.com/group/kinkforall/browse_thread/thread/a47b9d6dec2b6a09#msg_e13ea0d1a4659d9e
[2] https://twitter.com/KinkForAll/status/175768677076058112
> you yourself
> presented a class called "Pimp My Website,"
This one?
http://reidaboutsex.com/pimp-my-social-media-and-pimp-my-website-workdays-jan-15-16th-oakland-ca/
Primary sources are useful like that.
> Also thank you for uniting our privileged BDSM community and raising
> awareness about people like you.
You're welcome.
> Your argument that you believe FetLife is harmful and that it's their
> fault for being outed because "FetLife isn't private" is no different
> from the victim blaming that leads to the argument that women are at
> fault for being raped because of what they wear.
Comparing linking to a FetLife profile[0] to rape seriously trivializes the horror of rape.
This has gone on long enough. Isaac, Jeff, and anyone else reading: if you send one more message about *me* instead of *about KinkForAll*, you will be removed from this list.
Cheers,
-maymay
Blog: http://maybemaimed.com
Talk show: http://KinkOnTap.com
Community: http://KinkForAll.org
EXTERNAL REFERENCES:
[0] http://maybemaimed.com/2012/03/02/help-me-check-bdsms-privilege-at-the-next-kinkforall-unconference/
keeping this going and not, say maymay, who as far as I can tell as
Really, Rebecca? Putting it on Isaac to stop, as if it's him who's
been the primary antagonistic through this whole thing.
~Siren
Maymay--you are a mooching, self-entitled, lying, delusional, asinine, immature, snotty, emotionally challenged, homeless, jobless, blackmailing, manipulative, hypocritical, trifling-assed sack of batshit crazy.
Am I banned now?
But until I see Isaac (or Saskia, or Jeff, or anyone else who's made it their primary mission to tell maymay he's a big jerk, just in case he didn't already know) taking something away from this that involves actually getting their hands dirty and working hard to make our community stronger and safer in general, not just from one person, I'm not going to believe a word any of them says about how much they care.
--
And since this may be my only chance to explain myself before you ban me, I will tell you a story. Once upon a time I had my dream job. I was an advocate for children and a force of change in politics. I was making a difference. Until one day a blogger, such as yourself, decided to expose me publicly. Now, his blog had a bit more specific readership than yours did. Reporters and political elite read his blog. He decided to out me for my "liberal agenda". Linking back to my personal LiveJournal he outed me for being bi, poly and kinky in his words "disgusting". Fortunately all he captured were my public posts, but that was bad enough. He started a witch hunt to track down anyone I had slept with, trying to also expose them. He and his readers also advocated that my children be taken away from "such filth" as me. Eventually because the media couldn't get a solid statement from me he turned to emailing my board of directors until he found enough to be convinced that I should leave.
I was unemployed for 8 months after that. During that period of time not only did he continue his attacks, often linking my real name to my then scene-name but each time he did my family slid down even further. Being told that my writing on LJ wasn't safe and that frankly it was my fault that it happened in the first place created even more shame around the event. Shame for sharing my sexuality with others. Shame for not being smarter to keep my job. Shame for letting down my family and not being able to give my kids a Christmas that year. Do any of you know what that feels like?
To this day, years later, my husband still has had panic attacks watching the news. I screen every phone call that looks unfamiliar and I jump out of my skin each time there is an unexpected knock at the door. Trauma. I take jobs that won't put me in the press spotlight. I avoid all situations that may lead to any press coverage (funny enough this is the story I was going to tell at KFADEN until I heard there would be video streaming and press--too much of a risk for my family). To this day I do not know the identity of the person(s) who outed me nor will I ever. There is no closure. But today I have more compassion for them than I do for you.
See, the difference between you and a Republican blog is that you should know better about outing anyone. You claim to be a sex-positive advocate and yet you employ this form of violence against individuals and justify it with the basic excuse of "well, I told you fetlife wasn't safe" [1]. How dare you? At least the GOP asshat who did this this to me was trying to inform his base, to warn them against me in some dark, twisted version where I was selling sex for political power. By by no twist of the imagination did this person support sexual freedom or sex-positivity. But you supposedly do.
But here comes MayMay with KFA and not only does he alienate entire communities (not just kink but gay as well) but now for the lofty goal of proving some point he decides it is well with his rights, indeed his duty, to out someone linking their real name to their scene name. Classy.
Did you catch my sarcasm there? If not let me be more explicit. A sex positive culture is one in which we are able to practice forms of sexual expression with dignity and self-determination. By taking the choice away of whether to be out or not, you exposed not just that person to harm, but any partners, anyone connected to them. Plus, you had the added impact of causing panic attacks for those of us who wish to retain some control over that and who have faced this trauma before. You simply did not have a care for personal autonomy in how "out" they choose to be. Taking that choice away, as proven through countless stories of GLBTQ brothers and sisters who have been outed involuntarily through the years causes trauma. Deep, lasting emotional trauma not to mention could completely tank someone's career and earning potential and have effects far more lasting.
I don't care whether you feel you had a right to do it....it simply wasn't the right thing to do. I have had to live through this and had to re-live it because I watched someone else go through it this past week. You had a choice to act in a sex-positive manner and you didn't. And now that we want to talk about these consequences not just of your original words, but this escalating and rather alarming behavior you want to silence us. So first you insult us, next you expose us, then you ignore us and finally you silence us. Now who is acting privileged?
See, we care about our community members even though you don't. I am not even more than merely acquainted with the person you did this to. These are not just ideas about whether KFA was good, bad or otherwise, this is about living, breathing people. You spent quite a bit of space defending your close friend who was called a "blog whore". So is this really the most appropriate or consistent action in response? And what's sad is that I was going to ask you out to coffee to discuss this with you all but after this I found I simply couldn't trust being around someone who triggered me so badly...and frankly my partners are still concerned with me writing this email.
Is that what you really want? For people to not even feel safe around you or with the idea of KFA in this or any other city? If so you are an over-achiever I guess. But that's a pretty horrid legacy to leave behind. Is that what you envisioned for your life's work? You had an opportunity to create peace and allow that healing to be associated with KFA for future years and you crushed all hope of healing. So many poor choices that now will not just be associated with you but with the intent of KFA as well. I hope it has been worth it.
I could make the legal argument that you are responsible for intentional infliction of emotional harm (depending only on the severity of the harm suffered which has yet to be played out). You meet the legal criteria for the outrageousness of behavior necessary to make the claim. This isn't a threat, but maybe it helps put this is perspective. No remorse at all for what has occurred? No heart-felt mea culpa? It's not that hard to do and I don't understand your hesitation in simply owning up to some really poor choices.
Yet, instead by threatening to silence those who are trying to call for you to take responsibility for your words and actions you effectively get to control the conversation which is not in the spirit of what I believe KFA was meant to create. If KFA is truly not about you...then why threaten to silence us?
And I would be happy to let this go if it weren't always coming full circle and now involving a subject that is of even more intimate importance to me than the issues that started this thread. You can end this cycle...not by silencing the conversation but by showing some compassionate responsibility for it.
[1] liberal paraphrasing but evidence of MayMay's actual words and reactions can be found earlier in this thread.