New in Cruiser

[Angel AG]

Hello everyone and hello Emux.
I am a user in love with kurviger, but with the original kurviger and not with the one that is being created.
I am determined to try Cruiser as I understand that she is kurviger's mother and all the way she looks and works will be very familiar to me.
I would like to know what differences I am going to find in Cruiser and how the maps are managed (in kurviger it is done through BRouter),
I'm going to read this newsgroup. All the best.

[Emux]

Hi and thanks for your support!


Kurviger app used the Cruiser libraries.

- Cruiser has more features, except the Kurviger routing

- Cruiser can import + export offline your kurviger routes


There are already many new features implemented:

- Built-in Download Manager for offline maps and routing

- So you can try the GraphHopper (offline) in (re)routing
  (it has speed limits + street names)

- Integrated Biker map theme (now everyone can change it)

- Offline points of interest (via download manager), etc.
  You can search / display fuel stations and other POI at any zoom level, regardless of the map.

And many new features are coming, like a new better Route overview in navigation and more.

> how the maps are managed (in kurviger it is done through BRouter)

BRouter is used in offline routing and is the same way in Cruiser.

Cruiser does not change your curvy routes when rerouting in navigation.
It only calculates the part from user location to next waypoint, the rest of the curvy route remains unchanged.


If you have questions or ideas for improvements,
please write us, happy to discuss anything!

--
Emux

[Angel AG]

Hello again and thanks for answering.
In kurviger you can choose between online maps or BRouter for when you navigate offline.
How does Cruiser work?
Thank you.

[WolfgangS]

You can choose in Cruiser between online map or downloaded maps to have them ready without internet. Unlike the Kurviger app, Cruiser has a convenient download manager, not only for maps. 

BRouter is independent of the maps only responsible for navigation, among some other options. 

See attachments ...  

[Tom]

      BRouter is used in offline routing and is the same way in Cruiser.

BRouter doesn't work any more on Android 13. How can I then use BROUTER offline routing? I tried to reinstall Brouter, but I can't download any map because the selection of maps doesn't work. No map can be marked for download.

angel...@gmail.com schrieb am Mittwoch, 28. Dezember 2022 um 23:34:36 UTC+1:

[Willy]

@ Angel

In the kurviger app you:
- Navigate imported  .kurviger files created by Kurviger web.
  Navigate by imported files does not need an online connection.

In the kurviger app you (can) choose (reroute) between next routers:
- The online Kurviger router
- The offline BRouter router

In the Cruiser app you:
- Navigate imported .kurviger files created by Kurviger web.
- Navigate imported .gpx navigation files created by the RouteYou web.
- Navigate imported .gpx navigation files created by Cruiser Android/Desktop.
  Navigate by imported files does not need an online connection.

In the Cruiser app you (can) choose (reroute) between next routers:
- The online Brouter
- The online bikeroute.de
- The online CycleStreet(UK)
- The online GraphHopper
- The online MapQuest
- The online OpenRouteService
- The offline BRouter
- The offline GraphHopper

Note.
Many Kurviger app users when offtrack (for any reason) prefer to drive back towards the track by simple map view.

Op donderdag 29 december 2022 om 08:41:41 UTC+1 schreef Tom:

[Emux]

Thanks Wolfgang and Willy for the detailed answers!

--
Emux

[Emux]

Hi Tom,

I tried it again with a clean install of BRouter on Android 13 and it works properly.

What storage have you selected?
Have you tried to restart the phone?

Please see attached the steps I used with BRouter on Android 13.

--
Emux

[Willy]

@ Tom.

Since Android 11, Google has been trying to tempt you to switch back to paper maps with the more complex constraints.

I don't have Android 11/12/13 myself, but I understand that depositing BRouter rd5 files in the right place in Android is getting more complex.

A motorcyclist desires above all to ride, this without wasting time how to deal with these new hallucinatory Android rules.
Alas alas,...so throw those flowers thus mainly at Google, especially then with flowerpot added of course.

From what I read, I would however expect a new Brouter  download installs itself correctly with the necessary data in the right place.

(As is now confirmed above by Emux)
On my Android 9 phone with a new Brouter app installation, I see the data appearing either on internal sd or on the external sd in:
Android>data>btools.routingapp>files>brouter>segments4>with the requested and necessary rd5 files.
You can presumably view this in Android 13 only with an Android file explorer capable of doing so.
There are fewer and fewer such capable file explorers that can still handle this. On one A11 device, I tested this once.
I then used the cx file explorer for this. You have to explicitly give it permission for the necessary actions as well.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.cxinventor.file.explorer&gl=US
I can imagine that for gps app users it is increasingly becoming a rather degoutant experience this way.
Courtesy of Google.

Op donderdag 29 december 2022 om 09:43:51 UTC+1 schreef Emux:

[Angel AG]

Thank you very much for your help.
What is the best setting for online and offline maps?
I just signed up for Cruiser and I'm going to start looking at it.
I have used kurviger so Cruiser is very familiar to me, I just have to see the differences and get familiar with it.

[Angel AG]

How can I change the type of route from fast to curved, many curves, etc?

[Emux]

We need to clarify that maps and routing are 2 separate and different things.


Maps (view regions on screen)

You can use the built-in download manager to download offline maps.
(can activate many at once)

- Mapsforge: basic maps, useful in most situations.
  They are currently updated with lower zoom levels, use them with "Biker" theme / layers.

- OpenAndroMaps and Freizeitkarte: detailed maps.
  Better used with their themes (available in downloader).


Routing (calculate routes)

- You can import (and export) offline your Kurviger routes in Cruiser.

- Select BRouter (offline) or GraphHopper (offline) in routing settings,
  to have offline re-rerouting in navigation.

Re-routing calculates only the part from user location to next waypoint, the rest of the curvy route remains unchanged.

BRouter (offline) requires to download routing data with BRouter app (see above images).
GraphHopper (offline) requires to download routing data with the built-in download manager.

--
Emux

[Emux]

> How can I change the type of route from fast to curved, many curves, etc?

Kurviger routing is not available in Cruiser.


- You can create your routes on Kurviger website

- Then import them (offline) in Cruiser for navigation

--
Emux

[Emux]

> Mapsforge ones do not produce enough detail at similar zoom

Mapsforge maps are currently been re-created so they will provide the same detail.

Wait for those with dates from 2022-12-21.
Now it builds Europe (Africa, Asia, Australia should be ready).

Or do you have a specific map to check?

> It also lacks some offline search functions

Please give me some time. :)

The (offline) Search will be greatly improved in the next releases.

--
Emux

[Emux]

> I was actually going to ask why Great Britain had been left out for so long (Dec 2021) from updates, but I can see that others are rendering/uploading :)

Some regions may fail to build (e.g. memory problem),
so we need to run their map creation task again.

--
Emux

[Angel]

So if I create a route in Cruiser, I don't have the possibility to choose a route with curves or a route with many curves?

I only have that possibility if I create the route on the computer with kurviger?

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[Emux]

> So if I create a route in Cruiser, I don't have the possibility to choose a route with curves or a route with many curves?

If you mean Kurviger routing, it is only available in Kurviger.


The routing services currently available in Cruiser can be found in "Settings | Routing".
(also see the above post)

I write "currently" because more routing services will be included in future releases.
And some of them can provide more routing options, so they can also be available.


There is always BRouter for those who want to adjust and use its powerful profiles:
https://brouter.de/brouter/costfunctions.html

(the best is that it works offline)

--
Emux

[Willy]

Reference: 

https://groups.google.com/g/cruiser-users/c/B5_LVM8Mg0s/m/2Vy_7_87CQAJ

Where Cruiser lacks right now is the online/cloud aspect.
As far as I am concerned, nothing needs to change. 
Meant is: Transfers Desktop <> Android gps
Similar: Transfers Basecamp <> Garmin gps.  
Cruiser sync: FREE simple online/cloud solutions are at your service.
https://forum.kurviger.de/t/access-web-route-from-app/4925/9?
"A navigation software should stick to its core business" Yep so true.
Download from ANY SOURCE your desired (gpx) files to your sync folder(s). 

So ALL your devices will quickly have the most up-to-date file version. 

After sync when offline, the necessary files so remain still available.
KISS.

Op donderdag 29 december 2022 om 11:01:54 UTC+1 schreef MotoRiderUK:

Can confirm that Android 13 and BRouter work just fine (Samsung S20).  The BRouter files reside in Android>media>btools.routingapp.  On that note, for fast-vs-curvy routing - I am tempted to now have a look at a more custom BRouter profile to avoid the highways/tolls etc and favour the smaller roads.  The config file is very "readable" and should be easy to define a more "fun" route.

Maps: My personal preference is OpenAndroMaps (or old Kurviger ones) because the Mapsforge ones do not produce enough detail at similar zoom, placenames are too slow to appear without zooming-in quite far (this is not a theme issue).  BRouter works just fine for me as Graphhopper offline refuses to route me over a cattle-grid(!).

Where Cruiser lacks right now is the online/cloud aspect - it currently deals in flat files (like GPX) and they load/save just fine: I plan in BaseCamp and load the GPX into Cruiser with all my stops marked and I'm ready to ride. Diverting the route to other roads or stops is really easy and seems to place them in the right order when tapping a place on the map.  It also lacks some offline search functions (without telling it explicitly what you want to search for) from other apps where you press the magnifying glass button and start typing a road/business.

It really depends on what you want from the app and how you use it in your riding.  It's not Calimoto, CoPilot or Waze, but then it's not GoogleMaps either.  If you want to get from A to B with good traffic info, use Google.  If you want to ride for 2-hours in the twisties heading west, use Calimoto.  I like Cruiser (having migrated from CoPilot) as it handles multi-stop routes/touring, shows GPX bookmarks/favorites on the map and allows a new route to be created whilst on the bike in a layby :)

[Emux]

Open files in Cruiser will remain, both in the menu and when clicking on files with a file manager.
e.g. click gpx or itn or kurviger files and Cruiser is among the apps to open them

Even with the new built-in download manager that you no longer need to open maps / themes,
as Mapsforge maps are updated with lower zoom levels and Biker theme is integrated into Cruiser,
the old open map / theme menus are still available in "Settings | Application | Menu | Advanced".

--
Emux

[Angel AG]

If something made me fall in love with kurviger, it is the route proposals "so different" from the rest of GPS. Also the simplicity of navigating with it.

The second I keep with Cruiser, but the first I lose if I create the route from the phone and that is something that is difficult for me to assimilate and accept.
This summer I traveled to the French Alps and although I had all the routes made with Kurviger, I had to vary several routes along the way. Being able to choose different types of route led me to travel dream routes and outside the usual routes that most tourists do.
That magic is what I don't want to lose and I wish Cruiser could offer it to me.
I can't always prepare the routes from the sofa....it's fun to do it, but I have to have a plan B.

I don't know if I can explain myself.
Thank you for your effort and work.

El viernes, 30 de diciembre de 2022 a las 10:42:22 UTC+1, MotoRiderUK escribió:

I should probably clarify that my earlier comments were aimed at the new user "angel" rather than the dev team.

For the record, if Cruiser goes down that "cloud" route and removes the GPX loading via file manager, then I'm out :)  The concept of drawing a route on your PC, via a browser, signed into somebody else's server and then having your latest content appear on the phone as soon as you open the app is certainly useful, but not for me.  The T&Cs of one particular online/app solution are quite eye-opening!

That said, the default file system for apps that allow you to drop files into their folders isn't the most user-friendly.  I'm sure that most users do not want to edit a file, remove a line, change a value or navigate to a folder 8 levels deep only to find they can't overwrite the file because Android.  An import/open dialogue for things like that is always nice.  Persuading new users to alter their workflow (especially if they're coming from Calimoto) may be tricky with the flat-file concept or setting-up a Dropbox - I'm happy to work with offline files because it means I can plan, route, copy etc so long as I have battery % in the device.  Laptop in a cafe + USB cable = done.  Heck, I think my laptop even has Bluetooth built-in ;)

Telling a user that they need to load their route into a converter app (ITNConv is brilliant, BTW), export it to FileType XYZ, copy it to \Android\data\stuff\more-stuff\folder143843 and then rename it to my-route-gpx probably isn't going to win them over.