Roe/GEH update
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Sam Laybutt
Jun 5, 2012, 7:42:05 AM6/5/12
to aussie highways
Hi All,
A couple of pics of the Roe/Great Eastern interchange from Friday:
Sealing works underway on GEH - down to one lane and a good 600m of queues on either side
http://www.ozroads.com.au/misc/wa/IMG_1316.jpg
New AD eastbound on Great Eastern Highway - aesthetically designed. I don't like the arrangement they have gone for - I'd rather have separate panels for left and right due to the route marker changes, however at least it is accurate.
http://www.ozroads.com.au/misc/wa/IMG_1337.jpg
Note that the 'END SR51' trailblazer has gone and I doubt it will return. Fail.
This ID sign is now perfectly visible as all the trees have been removed:
http://www.ozroads.com.au/misc/IMG_2437.jpg
Cheers
Sam
A couple of pics of the Roe/Great Eastern interchange from Friday:
Sealing works underway on GEH - down to one lane and a good 600m of queues on either side
http://www.ozroads.com.au/misc/wa/IMG_1316.jpg
New AD eastbound on Great Eastern Highway - aesthetically designed. I don't like the arrangement they have gone for - I'd rather have separate panels for left and right due to the route marker changes, however at least it is accurate.
http://www.ozroads.com.au/misc/wa/IMG_1337.jpg
Note that the 'END SR51' trailblazer has gone and I doubt it will return. Fail.
This ID sign is now perfectly visible as all the trees have been removed:
http://www.ozroads.com.au/misc/IMG_2437.jpg
Cheers
Sam
Albert Alcoceba
Jun 7, 2012, 6:10:40 AM6/7/12
to aussie-...@googlegroups.com
On 5 Jun 2012 at 19:42, Sam Laybutt wrote:
New AD eastbound on Great Eastern Highway - aesthetically designed. I
don't like the arrangement they have gone for - I'd rather have
separate panels for left and right due to the route marker changes,
however at least it is accurate.
http://www.ozroads.com.au/misc/wa/IMG_1337.jpg
_____
New AD eastbound on Great Eastern Highway - aesthetically designed. I
don't like the arrangement they have gone for - I'd rather have
separate panels for left and right due to the route marker changes,
however at least it is accurate.
http://www.ozroads.com.au/misc/wa/IMG_1337.jpg
I still find this sign very confusing.
Are NR1, SR3 and NH94 to Perth and Freo all to the right?
I also don't like the bent arrow for to the right which is not
consistent with the other arrows.
--
Kind Regards,
Albert Alcoceba
<><
Paul Rands
Jun 7, 2012, 8:06:55 AM6/7/12
to aussie-...@googlegroups.com
The bent arrow indicates you have to go straight then turn, such as going thru half an interchange. I guess they do it to stop people going the wrong way up a ramp
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Paul Rands
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Sam Laybutt
Jun 7, 2012, 10:34:22 AM6/7/12
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Hi Albert - I completely agree with you, it is not easy to understand for most people, which is why I'd prefer seperate panels for the left and right turns. The old signs had this.
The sign is saying that nr1 and sr3 and Roe Hwy go left and right, while nh94 goes right only and nh95 goes left only. Not at all easy to pick up on the run and odd to see because the majority of signs in WA have each direction on a seperate panel, even on relatively straight forward signs.
As Paul said, the right arrow is designed to show a thru-then-right movement, to stop people from accidentally turning right onto the off-ramp. I don't know how effective it is but at least it is used consistently throughout Perth.
The sign is saying that nr1 and sr3 and Roe Hwy go left and right, while nh94 goes right only and nh95 goes left only. Not at all easy to pick up on the run and odd to see because the majority of signs in WA have each direction on a seperate panel, even on relatively straight forward signs.
As Paul said, the right arrow is designed to show a thru-then-right movement, to stop people from accidentally turning right onto the off-ramp. I don't know how effective it is but at least it is used consistently throughout Perth.
Lachlan Sims
Jun 7, 2012, 5:02:37 PM6/7/12
to aussie-...@googlegroups.com
The bent arrow concept is used in a number of jurisdictions in the US from memory. Usually at a basic diamond interchange.
Lach
Sam Laybutt
Jun 8, 2012, 12:53:48 AM6/8/12
to aussie highways
officially opened today, apparently
crazyknightsfan
Aug 13, 2012, 8:10:56 AM8/13/12
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Had a look at the Roe/Gt Eastern Hwy interchange over the weekend. It was officially opened on June 8th, and all movements are currently operating, however there's still the finishing touches to be done. Roe Highway is still a 60km/h zone in both directions. Here's a few photos.
View east from the overpass, showing the rebuilt and widened GEH between Roe Hwy and Farrell Rd
Southbound carriageway, looking north across the bridge. Mmmm...cheese sticks
Southbound view from the same spot
New southbound RD. Airport distance is obviously to the International Terminal, not Domestic which is a lot closer!
The first sign northbound that mentions the exits. Design is wrong - the road name patch should not be used unless there are focal points as well.
There's no exit ID sign for the SR51 exit yet. Here's the one for the NH94 exit - hidden behind a light pole, as usual.
This sign is a bit "redumbnant" - who would ride their bicycle down this set of stairs? I suggest the type of person who would try that is unlikely to be dissuaded by such a stupid sign
loop-the-loop for NH94 traffic
Westerly view from the overpass
Overhead signage for eastbound traffic - not too bad, given the height constraint, although the floating airplane is still pretty crap
ID for westbound traffic
ID for eastbound traffic, I hope the name plate is coming soon
New eastbound RD on Gt Eastern Hwy after Farrall Road. Massive fail here - Cunderin is not mentioned again on RD signs until after Meckering! The next RD sign mentions York, which is what should be shown here instead of Cunderdin. Common sense, I hardly knew ye.
Westbound AD sign - crap design but the alternative would have resulted in a sign a fair bit wider, so perhaps excusable (barely). Hidden behind some other signs and a traffic signal pole, as usual, when there's plenty of room just a little further down.
Overhead signs for westbound traffic. The 'Right Lane' message is necessary as the turning lane hasn't begun yet.
ID sign on the SR51 northbound off-ramp. Sited a fair way back from the actual junction, it functions as both AD and ID.
No new RD westbound; the old SR51 trailblazer has been retained. This doesn't meet MRWA guidelines which require an RD sign. I would've liked to have seen one with Midland, Guildford and Perth on it.
And finally, a bit of "sine salad" (to borrow a term from a somewhat well known US roadgeek) facing eastbound traffic. Not very clever sign placement once again.
Enjoy!
Paul Rands
Aug 13, 2012, 9:06:15 AM8/13/12
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Excellent photos Sam.
That interchange and associated artwork on the sound walls is amazing. Much nicer welcome to Perth than what was previously there (as shown on my site).
The placement of the signs is a bit ordinary, as is the mix of upward and downward arrows on the overhead signs.
Is it me or do the National Highway shields look like they've been done using the wrong colour?
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Sam Laybutt
Aug 13, 2012, 9:19:40 AM8/13/12
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The NH shields on signs installed in the last 5 years or so have the standard green background inside the shield. The older ones had a lighter coloured green inside the shield, not quite freeway green but lighter than the background. I think that's probably why the shields don't stand out as much now. At least they are consistent though, I suppose. The gold also appears to be a bit darker but again this is consistent over the past few years.
AS1742 no longer includes any route shields (shieldess alpha-numerics only) so there isn't really a 'standard' for them anymore...
Something I didn't mention in my first email - check out the 'lane ends merge right' sign, carefully hidden behind the traffic signals when relocating it 20m further forward would have provide clear vision!
http://www.ozroads.com.au/misc/wa/roe/IMG_4228.jpg
From: paul...@gmail.com
AS1742 no longer includes any route shields (shieldess alpha-numerics only) so there isn't really a 'standard' for them anymore...
Something I didn't mention in my first email - check out the 'lane ends merge right' sign, carefully hidden behind the traffic signals when relocating it 20m further forward would have provide clear vision!
http://www.ozroads.com.au/misc/wa/roe/IMG_4228.jpg
From: paul...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Aussie Highways] Roe/GEH update
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 23:06:15 +1000
To: aussie-...@googlegroups.com
To: aussie-...@googlegroups.com
Paul Rands
Aug 13, 2012, 9:24:02 AM8/13/12
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Hi Sam,
The big thing that works against MRWA in a lot of these sign installations is the fact they're using standard posts rather a gantry to lift the sign out of the mire. Same goes for traffic signals, they need to use mast arms more.
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Cameron Hobson
Aug 15, 2012, 10:26:06 AM8/15/12
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I haven't posted here in years. You
probably don't remember me - I posted a few times several years
ago - so I'll reintroduce myself. I grew up in Perth a lonely
road geek. For Christmas in 1985 (when I was eight) I asked for -
and received - a brand-new 1986 Metropolitan Street Directory
(latterly the StreetSmart; now the Melway Perth, of all the silly
names). I've lived in Sydney twice, for a total of four and a
half years, and I've driven in every mainland state (including
across the Nullarbor Plain five times). Loads of relatives in
country WA meant countless trips to the bush throughout my
childhood, and I still make occasional trips to the South-West for
holidays or just for the hell of it. I recently took a work trip
to the east coast, which saw me driving through South-East
Queensland for the first time, plus the NSW Central Coast (I still
love Peats Ridge Road, even if the old NH1 signs have gone), the
Southern Highlands (up the Jamberoo Pass for the first time) and
western Melbourne (plus part of the Great Ocean Road and the
Otways).
Anyway, enough about me. Back to this new interchange.
The curious thing about all this signage, to my mind, is the presence of NR1 markers anywhere near this interchange. Years ago, NR1 simply followed Great Eastern Highway from Perth, then turned off onto Great Northern Highway at the old town hall at Midland Junction. When Great Northern Highway was closed there years ago (not sure when - maybe around 1990?), NR1 was diverted around that intersection via Morrison Road, and it's been that way ever since. It's never gone east of Great Northern Highway (not round these parts, anyway).
Curiosity got the better of me a couple of days ago, and I went out to check out any evidence of NR1 being rerouted. The only evidence that NR1 routes via Roe Highway is at the two recently upgraded intersections: the GNH intersection (upgraded when Reid Highway was extended east a year or two ago) and the new GEH interchange. At every other intersection of note along the old route (GEH/GEH Bypass, GEH/Kalamunda Road, James/Johnson streets, James/Meadow streets, East Street/Terrace Road/GEH, GEH/Morrison Road, Morrison Road/GNH, GNH/Toodyay Road, GNH/Bishop Road), NR1 is still signed. And NR1 is not signed anywhere else along Roe Highway, except on the new AD and RD signs around the two upgraded intersections.
So, is this an error, or have MRWA decided to reroute NR1? Surely they would have removed or coverplated all the old NR1 signage had this been the case, as has been their practice before (e.g. SR35, SR86, Alt-SR10), and they don't seem to have ever been in the habit of rerouting or removing routes unless they were cut in half by new roads (SR35, SR78, SR86).
<soapbox>
It seems that the route numbering system in WA is so broken nowadays that not even MRWA know where the routes go. State routes were introduced in WA in 1986, and while it was originally rather well planned and very well signed, the boom in Perth's size has not been matched by any expansion or revision of its numbered routes. Case in point: surely NR1 should now route via the Kwinana Freeway and Forrest Highway (and arguably the Mitchell Freeway and Indian Ocean Drive), rather than the old route of Stock Road/Ennis Avenue/Mandurah Road/Old Coast Road. Sure, these roads are still very important, but who'd use them as a through route these days?
The only new state routes I can think of since 1986 are SR8 (the Graham Farmer Freeway, which extended and replaced SR34 and SR35), SR19 (Mandjoogoordap Drive, the new connector from SR2 into Mandurah), SR66 (to connect Guildford Road to the GFF) and SR87 (presumably created so that SR2 terminates at another route). And as for poor old SR14 (once Forrest Road from South Fremantle to Armadale) and SR77 (once the route from Balcatta to North Beach, and originally the northern terminus of SR2), well, they're nothing more than historical relics nowadays. You can't even stay on SR14 westbound when you get to Rockingham Road - a new median strip prevents the required right-hand turn!
And don't get me started on the tourist drives...
Moving to an MABC-style system would provide a great opportunity to overhaul all this. After all, the National Highway is defunct, and 'national routes' don't make much sense in a WA context. SR2 could become the M1, and Indian Ocean Drive and the South Western Highway south of Bunbury could become the A1.
</soapbox>
Oh, and as an aside, there's been talk in this thread about these curved right arrows on AD signage. The MRWA guidelines for direction signage explicitly deal with use of the curved right arrow here: http://www2.mainroads.wa.gov.au/Internet/Standards/RTems/traffic_mgmt/direct_signs_guide/guidelines_for_direction_signs_in_the_perth_metropolitan_area.asp#H016.
Cameron
Anyway, enough about me. Back to this new interchange.
The curious thing about all this signage, to my mind, is the presence of NR1 markers anywhere near this interchange. Years ago, NR1 simply followed Great Eastern Highway from Perth, then turned off onto Great Northern Highway at the old town hall at Midland Junction. When Great Northern Highway was closed there years ago (not sure when - maybe around 1990?), NR1 was diverted around that intersection via Morrison Road, and it's been that way ever since. It's never gone east of Great Northern Highway (not round these parts, anyway).
Curiosity got the better of me a couple of days ago, and I went out to check out any evidence of NR1 being rerouted. The only evidence that NR1 routes via Roe Highway is at the two recently upgraded intersections: the GNH intersection (upgraded when Reid Highway was extended east a year or two ago) and the new GEH interchange. At every other intersection of note along the old route (GEH/GEH Bypass, GEH/Kalamunda Road, James/Johnson streets, James/Meadow streets, East Street/Terrace Road/GEH, GEH/Morrison Road, Morrison Road/GNH, GNH/Toodyay Road, GNH/Bishop Road), NR1 is still signed. And NR1 is not signed anywhere else along Roe Highway, except on the new AD and RD signs around the two upgraded intersections.
So, is this an error, or have MRWA decided to reroute NR1? Surely they would have removed or coverplated all the old NR1 signage had this been the case, as has been their practice before (e.g. SR35, SR86, Alt-SR10), and they don't seem to have ever been in the habit of rerouting or removing routes unless they were cut in half by new roads (SR35, SR78, SR86).
<soapbox>
It seems that the route numbering system in WA is so broken nowadays that not even MRWA know where the routes go. State routes were introduced in WA in 1986, and while it was originally rather well planned and very well signed, the boom in Perth's size has not been matched by any expansion or revision of its numbered routes. Case in point: surely NR1 should now route via the Kwinana Freeway and Forrest Highway (and arguably the Mitchell Freeway and Indian Ocean Drive), rather than the old route of Stock Road/Ennis Avenue/Mandurah Road/Old Coast Road. Sure, these roads are still very important, but who'd use them as a through route these days?
The only new state routes I can think of since 1986 are SR8 (the Graham Farmer Freeway, which extended and replaced SR34 and SR35), SR19 (Mandjoogoordap Drive, the new connector from SR2 into Mandurah), SR66 (to connect Guildford Road to the GFF) and SR87 (presumably created so that SR2 terminates at another route). And as for poor old SR14 (once Forrest Road from South Fremantle to Armadale) and SR77 (once the route from Balcatta to North Beach, and originally the northern terminus of SR2), well, they're nothing more than historical relics nowadays. You can't even stay on SR14 westbound when you get to Rockingham Road - a new median strip prevents the required right-hand turn!
And don't get me started on the tourist drives...
Moving to an MABC-style system would provide a great opportunity to overhaul all this. After all, the National Highway is defunct, and 'national routes' don't make much sense in a WA context. SR2 could become the M1, and Indian Ocean Drive and the South Western Highway south of Bunbury could become the A1.
</soapbox>
Oh, and as an aside, there's been talk in this thread about these curved right arrows on AD signage. The MRWA guidelines for direction signage explicitly deal with use of the curved right arrow here: http://www2.mainroads.wa.gov.au/Internet/Standards/RTems/traffic_mgmt/direct_signs_guide/guidelines_for_direction_signs_in_the_perth_metropolitan_area.asp#H016.
Cameron
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Sam Laybutt
Aug 15, 2012, 11:04:29 AM8/15/12
to aussie highways
Not happy Jan - stupid computer ate my reply. Grrr...
Anyway, good to see you back from hibernation mate. :)
In quick answer to some of your comments and questions...
1. There is also a NR1 trailblazer on GEH Bypass approaching Kalamunda Road. This was installed a few years ago. Up until 2010, this was the only sign showing NR1 on the bypass.
2. I don't really know the story behind NR1. It was meant to be rerouted 25 odd years ago but for whatever reason this never eventuated. As you said, there's just a complete muddle at the moment. Signs are being replaced on the old/existing NR1 without changing the route number and the two big construction projects have had NR1 on them. To add to that, there's two signs which incorrectly show NH94 as NH95 which I've posted here before...
3. Since 1986 key staff have left (retired or become consultants) and so that knowledge has been lost. The massive changes in Main Roads in the late 1990s didn't help as the responsibility for the system was all over the place. As you mentioned, a few tweaks have been made in response to large construction projects but these have been ad-hoc and have not even been implemented correctly (i.e. SR66 and SR87 are still not signed fully).
4. re: SR2. I'm on the fence. On one hand, it is handy having the freeways have a single number. On the other hand, NR1 goes an indirect way. I don't think MRWA have ever seriously considered such a big change due to the negligible benefit and very high cost.
5. Agree that the SR14 situation was ridiculous. A little while it was moved though, it now runs via Beeliar Drive and Spearwood Avenue to terminate at Cockburn Road. The signs on the old route have STILL not been fully removed (I counted about 8-10 relics when I drove through over the weekend), including probably the most important one which is the westbound trailblazer on Beeliar Drive approaching North Lake Road - it still tells traffic to turn right into North Lake Road!! Unfortunately this is a great example of what's been happening since the early 1990s; not to mention that the route was not moved for about 4 years after the turn was banned. Amusing thing is that Main Roads erected this ID sign: http://goo.gl/maps/lASaq which tells Fremantle traffic to turn left yet excludes the SR14 shield - lunacy!
6. Alpha-numeric won't happen anytime soon, I don't think. I can't see the money being spent when the existing system is not even maintained properly.
Take a look at my SR72 page on Ozroads:
http://www.ozroads.com.au/WA/routenumbering/state/72/sr72.htm
Every single SR72 sign currently in existence is on there. There are more SR72 signs missing than actually exist. It is not possible to follow this route from end to end via the signs.
I have posted a wide array of facepalms over the past couple of years - you might be interested in these:
https://groups.google.com/d/topic/aussie-highways/tRUBYiOpRtc/discussion
https://groups.google.com/d/topic/aussie-highways/_qN3ZgRcNn4/discussion
https://groups.google.com/d/topic/aussie-highways/pHYJuaGoCP4/discussion
https://groups.google.com/d/topic/aussie-highways/Xlo2NfvSc9Y/discussion
https://groups.google.com/d/topic/aussie-highways/ZfK1eXHXwSs/discussion
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 22:26:06 +0800
From: m...@hobson.id.au
To: aussie-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Aussie Highways] Re: Roe/GEH update
Anyway, good to see you back from hibernation mate. :)
In quick answer to some of your comments and questions...
1. There is also a NR1 trailblazer on GEH Bypass approaching Kalamunda Road. This was installed a few years ago. Up until 2010, this was the only sign showing NR1 on the bypass.
2. I don't really know the story behind NR1. It was meant to be rerouted 25 odd years ago but for whatever reason this never eventuated. As you said, there's just a complete muddle at the moment. Signs are being replaced on the old/existing NR1 without changing the route number and the two big construction projects have had NR1 on them. To add to that, there's two signs which incorrectly show NH94 as NH95 which I've posted here before...
3. Since 1986 key staff have left (retired or become consultants) and so that knowledge has been lost. The massive changes in Main Roads in the late 1990s didn't help as the responsibility for the system was all over the place. As you mentioned, a few tweaks have been made in response to large construction projects but these have been ad-hoc and have not even been implemented correctly (i.e. SR66 and SR87 are still not signed fully).
4. re: SR2. I'm on the fence. On one hand, it is handy having the freeways have a single number. On the other hand, NR1 goes an indirect way. I don't think MRWA have ever seriously considered such a big change due to the negligible benefit and very high cost.
5. Agree that the SR14 situation was ridiculous. A little while it was moved though, it now runs via Beeliar Drive and Spearwood Avenue to terminate at Cockburn Road. The signs on the old route have STILL not been fully removed (I counted about 8-10 relics when I drove through over the weekend), including probably the most important one which is the westbound trailblazer on Beeliar Drive approaching North Lake Road - it still tells traffic to turn right into North Lake Road!! Unfortunately this is a great example of what's been happening since the early 1990s; not to mention that the route was not moved for about 4 years after the turn was banned. Amusing thing is that Main Roads erected this ID sign: http://goo.gl/maps/lASaq which tells Fremantle traffic to turn left yet excludes the SR14 shield - lunacy!
6. Alpha-numeric won't happen anytime soon, I don't think. I can't see the money being spent when the existing system is not even maintained properly.
Take a look at my SR72 page on Ozroads:
http://www.ozroads.com.au/WA/routenumbering/state/72/sr72.htm
Every single SR72 sign currently in existence is on there. There are more SR72 signs missing than actually exist. It is not possible to follow this route from end to end via the signs.
I have posted a wide array of facepalms over the past couple of years - you might be interested in these:
https://groups.google.com/d/topic/aussie-highways/tRUBYiOpRtc/discussion
https://groups.google.com/d/topic/aussie-highways/_qN3ZgRcNn4/discussion
https://groups.google.com/d/topic/aussie-highways/pHYJuaGoCP4/discussion
https://groups.google.com/d/topic/aussie-highways/Xlo2NfvSc9Y/discussion
https://groups.google.com/d/topic/aussie-highways/ZfK1eXHXwSs/discussion
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 22:26:06 +0800
From: m...@hobson.id.au
To: aussie-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Aussie Highways] Re: Roe/GEH update
Cameron Hobson
Aug 17, 2012, 3:51:40 PM8/17/12
to aussie-...@googlegroups.com
Sounds like you have a fair bit of MRWA
inside knowledge...
1. I've driven through here countless times before, and I'd never noticed this (http://goo.gl/maps/6yBG1). Huh. And if I had, I would have just dismissed it as a silly error.
2. What do you mean when you say it was meant to be rerouted 25 years ago? I have to be honest, I don't know what the situation was pre-1986, other than having a very vague memory of seeing NR95 shields on Albany Highway (possibly at Welshpool Road) as a young boy. NR1 apparently once went via South Western Highway from Perth to Bunbury, which would have been prior to the construction of Ennis Avenue (when Mandurah Road, now Old Mandurah Road, was the only route south from Rockingham), but I have no memory of this routing. Back in 1986, Kwinana Freeway only went as far south as South St, so routing NR1 via Kwinana Fwy, Leach Hwy and Stock Road made sense. If you mean it was supposed to be rerouted onto the freeway as that was extended...well, that obviously never happened.
Main Roads must have some sort of source document that definitively lists all the routes and where they go. It would be interesting to see it if they did.
4. Not sure what you're on the fence about here. You mean about NR1 going the full length of the freeway?
5. I wasn't aware that SR14 had been rerouted - is this based on signage? I rarely go down that way - I wasn't even aware Spearwood Avenue had been extended west.
6. No, can't see alphanumeric coming any time soon myself. I used to prefer the shield system, but few people seem to understand it. Even among the contractors who sign our roads, if the number of wrong shields out there (e.g. Alt-NR30 on Albany Highway at the Kenwick Link: http://goo.gl/maps/TLiwj) is anything to go by.
As I mentioned, I was over east recently. I stayed in Werribee with a friend who moved there a year ago from Perth, and we thought we'd drive to Apollo Bay for lunch. I not knowing Werribee very well, we found ourselves driving on some random road she'd directed me to, and I had the feeling I was going north-west, so I said, "Does this go to the M1 or not?" She paused for a moment. "Uh...I don't know. Do you mean the freeway?" This from someone who drives the Princes Fwy to work in South Melbourne five days a week.
So maybe alphanumerics are no clearer after all...
Yes, SR72 has become somewhat unnavigable over the years. But you should try...well, pretty much any numbered tourist drive. If you can tell me for certain where TD207's western terminus is, I'll give you a spotty banana.
Cameron
1. I've driven through here countless times before, and I'd never noticed this (http://goo.gl/maps/6yBG1). Huh. And if I had, I would have just dismissed it as a silly error.
2. What do you mean when you say it was meant to be rerouted 25 years ago? I have to be honest, I don't know what the situation was pre-1986, other than having a very vague memory of seeing NR95 shields on Albany Highway (possibly at Welshpool Road) as a young boy. NR1 apparently once went via South Western Highway from Perth to Bunbury, which would have been prior to the construction of Ennis Avenue (when Mandurah Road, now Old Mandurah Road, was the only route south from Rockingham), but I have no memory of this routing. Back in 1986, Kwinana Freeway only went as far south as South St, so routing NR1 via Kwinana Fwy, Leach Hwy and Stock Road made sense. If you mean it was supposed to be rerouted onto the freeway as that was extended...well, that obviously never happened.
Main Roads must have some sort of source document that definitively lists all the routes and where they go. It would be interesting to see it if they did.
4. Not sure what you're on the fence about here. You mean about NR1 going the full length of the freeway?
5. I wasn't aware that SR14 had been rerouted - is this based on signage? I rarely go down that way - I wasn't even aware Spearwood Avenue had been extended west.
6. No, can't see alphanumeric coming any time soon myself. I used to prefer the shield system, but few people seem to understand it. Even among the contractors who sign our roads, if the number of wrong shields out there (e.g. Alt-NR30 on Albany Highway at the Kenwick Link: http://goo.gl/maps/TLiwj) is anything to go by.
As I mentioned, I was over east recently. I stayed in Werribee with a friend who moved there a year ago from Perth, and we thought we'd drive to Apollo Bay for lunch. I not knowing Werribee very well, we found ourselves driving on some random road she'd directed me to, and I had the feeling I was going north-west, so I said, "Does this go to the M1 or not?" She paused for a moment. "Uh...I don't know. Do you mean the freeway?" This from someone who drives the Princes Fwy to work in South Melbourne five days a week.
So maybe alphanumerics are no clearer after all...
Yes, SR72 has become somewhat unnavigable over the years. But you should try...well, pretty much any numbered tourist drive. If you can tell me for certain where TD207's western terminus is, I'll give you a spotty banana.
Cameron
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Sam Laybutt
Aug 18, 2012, 2:55:08 AM8/18/12
to aussie highways
2. It was meant to be re-routed around Midland when the GEH Bypass opened. NH94 was moved but I'm not sure why NR1 wasn't.
3. unfortunately not. Originally there was, as you'd expect when the system is implemented, but it hasn't been updated or maintained. Ozroads is probably the most accurate database there is :)
4. Yep.
5. Yeah - happened 12 months ago (time flies!). Here's the thread I posted at the time:
https://groups.google.com/d/topic/aussie-highways/zFRUWW3haS0/discussion
re: your friend in Melbourne - there's no helping someone who doesn't want to be helped! Some people just have no interest in it :)
re: TD207 - this is one of the many tourist drives that have been left to rot and half the signs are missing. The eastern terminus, however, is the intersection of GEH & Nichol St, Mundaring :)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 03:51:40 +0800
3. unfortunately not. Originally there was, as you'd expect when the system is implemented, but it hasn't been updated or maintained. Ozroads is probably the most accurate database there is :)
4. Yep.
5. Yeah - happened 12 months ago (time flies!). Here's the thread I posted at the time:
https://groups.google.com/d/topic/aussie-highways/zFRUWW3haS0/discussion
re: your friend in Melbourne - there's no helping someone who doesn't want to be helped! Some people just have no interest in it :)
re: TD207 - this is one of the many tourist drives that have been left to rot and half the signs are missing. The eastern terminus, however, is the intersection of GEH & Nichol St, Mundaring :)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 03:51:40 +0800
From: m...@hobson.id.au
To: aussie-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Aussie Highways] Re: Roe/GEH update
2. What do you mean when you say it was meant to be rerouted 25
years ago? I have to be honest, I don't know what the situation
was pre-1986, other than having a very vague memory of seeing NR95
shields on Albany Highway (possibly at Welshpool Road) as a young
boy. NR1 apparently once went via South Western Highway from
Perth to Bunbury, which would have been prior to the construction
of Ennis Avenue (when Mandurah Road, now Old Mandurah Road, was
the only route south from Rockingham), but I have no memory of
this routing. Back in 1986, Kwinana Freeway only went as far
south as South St, so routing NR1 via Kwinana Fwy, Leach Hwy and
Stock Road made sense. If you mean it was supposed to be rerouted
onto the freeway as that was extended...well, that obviously never
happened.
3. Main Roads must have some sort of source document that
definitively lists all the routes and where they go. It would be
interesting to see it if they did.
Cameron Hobson
Aug 18, 2012, 5:14:38 AM8/18/12
to aussie-...@googlegroups.com
I always just had the idea that NR1 was
kept on the old alignment as a kind of 'alternative NH94'. But
I've just noticed that the StreetSm...uh, Melway Perth has NR1
going via the Bypass.
Thanks for the link - I found the email thread among the 10,000 or so unread emails in my aussie-highways folder. But it looks like you've taken down the /misc/sr14/ directory on your web server. I might go out and have a look sometime, when I can find time.
TD207 originally routed via Jacoby and Nichol streets to terminate at the highway, back when this was the route from Mundaring Weir to Mundaring. But that was before Mundaring Weir Road was extended through to the highway directly, which happened a few years ago. So officially, I guess TD207 does still go the old way; but it shouldn't, really, and the lack of signage at the roundabout at Jacoby Street and Mundaring Weir Road gives no indication that the route turns off. There are a couple of trailblazers on the corner outside the pub still.
I find WA's tourist routes fascinating because they're in such a dilapidated state that they're more like mystery tours. There are supposed to be 30 of them in all (not counting e.g. the City of Albany routes), and I've tried following probably over half of them, but unless you do some research beforehand, most of them are impossible to follow. And some, like TD200, seem to have vanished completely - I'm not aware of any remaining TD200 signage. But that topic probably deserves its own thread.
Cameron
Thanks for the link - I found the email thread among the 10,000 or so unread emails in my aussie-highways folder. But it looks like you've taken down the /misc/sr14/ directory on your web server. I might go out and have a look sometime, when I can find time.
TD207 originally routed via Jacoby and Nichol streets to terminate at the highway, back when this was the route from Mundaring Weir to Mundaring. But that was before Mundaring Weir Road was extended through to the highway directly, which happened a few years ago. So officially, I guess TD207 does still go the old way; but it shouldn't, really, and the lack of signage at the roundabout at Jacoby Street and Mundaring Weir Road gives no indication that the route turns off. There are a couple of trailblazers on the corner outside the pub still.
I find WA's tourist routes fascinating because they're in such a dilapidated state that they're more like mystery tours. There are supposed to be 30 of them in all (not counting e.g. the City of Albany routes), and I've tried following probably over half of them, but unless you do some research beforehand, most of them are impossible to follow. And some, like TD200, seem to have vanished completely - I'm not aware of any remaining TD200 signage. But that topic probably deserves its own thread.
Cameron
Sam Laybutt
Aug 18, 2012, 5:25:02 AM8/18/12
to aussie highways
Yeah, sorry about that, I do periodically purge the misc directory so it seems they aren't there anymore. I will get a page on SR14 up in due time but it'll probably be quicker for you to simply have a look :p
TD200 is gone, I assume this was done when the newish signage within Kings Park was installed - I am guessing at least 6-7 years ago, if not earlier.
TD203 also disappeared say 5 years ago when a new signage scheme was implemented through the Swan Valley (i.e. the mauve coloured signs)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 17:14:38 +0800
TD200 is gone, I assume this was done when the newish signage within Kings Park was installed - I am guessing at least 6-7 years ago, if not earlier.
TD203 also disappeared say 5 years ago when a new signage scheme was implemented through the Swan Valley (i.e. the mauve coloured signs)
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2012 17:14:38 +0800
From: m...@hobson.id.au
To: aussie-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Aussie Highways] Re: Roe/GEH update
BingPress
Jun 16, 2021, 8:18:04 PM6/16/21
to Aussie Highways
Interestingly, I've noticed in this past year or so (very recently) that the NR1 shields on Roe Highway discussed above have now all been removed. They are coverplated with the original SR3/NH95 duplex.
Maybe it really was an error!?
Paul Rands
Jun 19, 2021, 12:09:18 AM6/19/21
to aussie-...@googlegroups.com
Yeah the NR1 was an error.
-- Paul Rands li...@paulrands.com WWW: http://www.expressway.online/
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Sam Laybutt
Jun 19, 2021, 6:00:17 AM6/19/21
to aussie-...@googlegroups.com
Yeah, Main Roads decided it was an error and covered the NR1 signs at GEH/Roe, Roe/Clayton, and removed a couple of trailblazers along GEH Bypass. This happened quite a while ago - end of 2017/early 2018 ish - but the signs at Roe/GNH intersection still haven't
been corrected.
From: aussie-...@googlegroups.com <aussie-...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of BingPress <jacka...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, 17 June 2021 8:18 AM
To: Aussie Highways <aussie-...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 17 June 2021 8:18 AM
To: Aussie Highways <aussie-...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Aussie Highways] Re: Roe/GEH update
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