mozilla groups on aioe

[dillinger]

Currently all mozilla groups are mirrored read-only on nntp.aioe.org.
At some point in the past they were read-write but they never peered
with news.mozilla.org.
If we can get aioe to make them read-write again we could just switch
servers and continue to use the current groups on nntp.aioe.org

[Ralph Fox]

The groups mozilla.support.firefox, mozilla.support.thunderbird, and
mozilla.support.seamonkey are also on Omicron / Highwinds servers
such as Easynews, Astraweb, etc.[1][2]. And as far as I can see you
can already post on those servers (but see [3]); the groups are
not read-only on those servers.


[1] Usenet provider map: <https://lensdump.com/i/jmQzCo>
[2] Usenet provider map: <https://burwinch.github.io/usenet_tree/usenet_tree.svg>

[3] Posts made using those servers do not appear on news.mozilla.org
and will still not appear on Google groups. Mozilla chose not to peer
the mozilla.* groups with any other server except Google Groups.


--
Kind regards
Ralph

[Andy Burns]

Ralph Fox wrote:

> dillinger wrote:
>
>> Currently all mozilla groups are mirrored read-only on nntp.aioe.org.
>> At some point in the past they were read-write but they never peered
>> with news.mozilla.org.
>> If we can get aioe to make them read-write again we could just switch
>> servers and continue to use the current groups on nntp.aioe.org
>
> The groups mozilla.support.firefox, mozilla.support.thunderbird, and
> mozilla.support.seamonkey are also on Omicron / Highwinds servers
> such as Easynews, Astraweb, etc.[1][2]. And as far as I can see you
> can already post on those servers (but see [3]); the groups are
> not read-only on those servers.

You can probably send replies to those groups *on the individual
servers* but the replies will never cross-propagate to the other
servers, so it's series of isolated islands

If you (or anyone else) have the clout to get all these servers to start
speaking to each other like normal usenet peering, go for it ...

[Ralph Fox]

On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 08:29:39 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:
> Ralph Fox wrote:
>> dillinger wrote:
>>
>>> Currently all mozilla groups are mirrored read-only on nntp.aioe.org.
>>> At some point in the past they were read-write but they never peered
>>> with news.mozilla.org.
>>> If we can get aioe to make them read-write again we could just switch
>>> servers and continue to use the current groups on nntp.aioe.org
>>
>> The groups mozilla.support.firefox, mozilla.support.thunderbird, and
>> mozilla.support.seamonkey are also on Omicron / Highwinds servers
>> such as Easynews, Astraweb, etc.[1][2]. And as far as I can see you
>> can already post on those servers (but see [3]); the groups are
>> not read-only on those servers.
>
> You can probably send replies to those groups *on the individual
> servers* but the replies will never cross-propagate to the other
> servers, so it's series of isolated islands

I posted a reply in mozilla.support.firefox on Easynews, and that
reply appeared in mozilla.support.firefox on both AIOE and Astraweb.

That is, they were _not_ isolated islands when I tested it.


Here is the copy from AIOE, so you can check this.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Path: aioe.org!feeder1.feed.usenet.farm!feed.usenet.farm!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed7.news.xs4all.nl!50.7.236.18.MISMATCH!news-out.netnews.com!news.alt.net!fdc3.netnews.com!peer01.ams1!peer.ams1.xlned.com!news.xlned.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!fx47.iad.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Ralph Fox <-rf-nz-@-.invalid>
Newsgroups: mozilla.support.firefox
Subject: Re: **THIS FORUM WILL BE SHUT DOWN SOON**
Organization: Easynews - www.easynews.com
Message-ID: <ns886gdva8frf30r7...@4ax.com>
References: <gcydnXuGzeb1DML9...@mozilla.org> <mailman.50.1616875885...@lists.mozilla.org> <dMCdnUG1hP_9f_39...@mozilla.org> <mailman.74.1616962148...@lists.mozilla.org> <C7-dnejJ3Ikwev39...@mozilla.org> <mailman.79.1616963505...@lists.mozilla.org> <VsednRxLUd9cu__9...@mozilla.org> <mailman.107.161704519...@lists.mozilla.org>
User-Agent: ForteAgent/8.00.32.1272
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Face: 5gSW~"1=jGDo(BXfTrgL2BnC3tUB_\d0u@mP~wA1fvK`z8I[>1jXVVZ!N6ittQ.K<5!i3l> ==jcyAk.[B>kLg8TY{+8%edZ(le:ncPt%s8Pr?]QXNXO]0RC#V_zt|%>=bt>rZ2iCI^-yl7Be(]Ep> OfyI!3Bf|e
Lines: 19
X-Complaints-To: ab...@easynews.com
X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly.
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 20:28:32 +1300
X-Received-Bytes: 1984
Xref: aioe.org mozilla.support.firefox:7802

On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 21:13:06 +0200, s|b wrote:

> On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 16:31:41 -0400, Chris Ilias wrote:
>
>> Hi sb,
>> I have no control over the schedule. If you need an interim group, you
>> can use the one I mentioned in the original post. I also remember
>> alt.fan.mozilla when I was on Usenet; you can use that as well.
>
> Yes, I've read that. Sorry about my rather impulsive reaction. It would
> have been nice to have more time to set up some (Usenet) alternatives.


There already are over 40 messages in alt.fan.mozilla since this announcement.


--
Kind regards
Ralph
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


--
Kind regards
Ralph

[Andy Burns]

Ralph Fox wrote:

> I posted a reply in mozilla.support.firefox on Easynews, and that
> reply appeared in mozilla.support.firefox on both AIOE and Astraweb.

interesting, I do see your reply on aioe but not on n.m.o or google

> That is, they were_not_ isolated islands when I tested it.

I'll correct my description to "sparsely connected islands"

[Ralph Fox]

*** TROLL ALERT *** TROLL ALERT *** TROLL ALERT ***

As I wrote in my original reply (and the troll snipped)

| [3] Posts made using those servers do not appear on news.mozilla.org
| and will still not appear on Google groups. Mozilla chose not to peer
| the mozilla.* groups with any other server except Google Groups.

The troll has shown no evidence that the servers outside news.mozilla.org
and Google groups are "sparsely connected".

Server news.mozilla.org is being closed soon, and is totally irrelevant to
the future after news.mozilla.org is closed. The Google groups archive for
mozilla.support.firefox will become read-only as GG has done with other
mozilla newsgroups which were "shuttered" in the past [see the announcement
<https://groups.google.com/g/mozilla.support.firefox/c/SxAJiCEQZAQ>].


--
Kind regards
Ralph

[Andy Burns]

Ralph Fox wrote:

> *** TROLL ALERT ***


PLONK.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

On Thu, 1 Apr 2021 at 06:41:55, Ralph Fox <-rf-nz-@-.invalid> wrote (my
responses usually follow points raised):

>On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 11:17:39 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> Ralph Fox wrote:
>>
>>> I posted a reply in mozilla.support.firefox on Easynews, and that
>>> reply appeared in mozilla.support.firefox on both AIOE and Astraweb.
>>
>> interesting, I do see your reply on aioe but not on n.m.o or google
>>
>>> That is, they were_not_ isolated islands when I tested it.
>>
>> I'll correct my description to "sparsely connected islands"
>
> *** TROLL ALERT *** TROLL ALERT *** TROLL ALERT ***
>
>As I wrote in my original reply (and the troll snipped)
>
>| [3] Posts made using those servers do not appear on news.mozilla.org
>| and will still not appear on Google groups. Mozilla chose not
>to peer
>| the mozilla.* groups with any other server except Google Groups.

Nobody disagreed with you about that; we know Mozilla kept themselves to
themselves, as if pretending the rest of the world didn't exist.

>
>The troll has shown no evidence that the servers outside news.mozilla.org
>and Google groups are "sparsely connected".

And you've not produced any evidence that they aren't connected. It's
reasonable to assume they might have been isolated initially, and the
interconnection might be increasing.

>
>Server news.mozilla.org is being closed soon, and is totally irrelevant to
>the future after news.mozilla.org is closed. The Google groups archive for
>mozilla.support.firefox will become read-only as GG has done with other
>mozilla newsgroups which were "shuttered" in the past [see the announcement
><https://groups.google.com/g/mozilla.support.firefox/c/SxAJiCEQZAQ>].
>

There is a world outside news.Mozilla.org and Google groups, and should
that world choose to carry these groups, there's nothing either of those
can do about it: compare the microsoft.* groups (or even the Demon
ones). Well, there's one thing they can do - prevent access to the
archives (apart from what's leaked in the past). But they can't stop the
'groups continuing, if other servers start (or continue) to carry them,
and start (or continue) to peer.
>
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I don't have an agree that our language torture is a quality add
- soldiersailor on Gransnet, 2018-3-8

[The Real Bev]

On 04/01/2021 07:49 AM, jetjock wrote:

> Wow. We've only been here for about three days and already have our
> first "PLONK"! :-)

I guess that means we're ALIIIIIIVE!


--
Cheers, Bev
If you're ever about to be mugged by a couple
of clowns, don't hesitate - go for the juggler.

[Ralph Fox]

On Thu, 01 Apr 2021 09:49:12 -0500, jetjock wrote:

> Wow. We've only been here for about three days and already have our
> first "PLONK"! :-)

I have been here since 2004, and so have many others. [1]

The first "PLONK" I could find here was in 2006. [2]


Evidence:
[1] <https://groups.google.com/g/alt.fan.mozilla/c/jbxsgmNy13E/m/A4ZbJ23xohoJ>
[2] <https://groups.google.com/g/alt.fan.mozilla/c/6JGWK8yIseY/m/zpMbs_b7Fh0J>



--
Kind regards
Ralph

[Me]

Hello Me here,

This link works for me to post on google forums:

https://myaccount.google.com

[Ralph Fox]

On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 21:16:47 +0100, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

> On Thu, 1 Apr 2021 at 06:41:55, Ralph Fox <-rf-nz-@-.invalid> wrote (my
> responses usually follow points raised):
>> On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 11:17:39 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>> Ralph Fox wrote:
>>>
>>>> I posted a reply in mozilla.support.firefox on Easynews, and that
>>>> reply appeared in mozilla.support.firefox on both AIOE and Astraweb.
>>>
>>> interesting, I do see your reply on aioe but not on n.m.o or google
>>>
>>>> That is, they were_not_ isolated islands when I tested it.
>>>
>>> I'll correct my description to "sparsely connected islands"
>>
>> *** TROLL ALERT *** TROLL ALERT *** TROLL ALERT ***
>>
>> As I wrote in my original reply (and the troll snipped)
>>
>> | [3] Posts made using those servers do not appear on news.mozilla.org
>> | and will still not appear on Google groups. Mozilla chose not
>> to peer
>> | the mozilla.* groups with any other server except Google Groups.
>
> Nobody disagreed with you about that;

You have missed the point.

> we know Mozilla kept themselves to
> themselves, as if pretending the rest of the world didn't exist.
>>
>> The troll has shown no evidence that the servers outside news.mozilla.org
>> and Google groups are "sparsely connected".
>
> And you've not produced any evidence that they aren't connected.

I _have_ produced evidence that they _are_ connected [1].

I am not the one who claimed they aren't connected.
Do read for content.


[1] See my second post in this thread.

> It's
> reasonable to assume they might have been isolated initially, and the
> interconnection might be increasing.

And all that was done over 10 years ago.

The news.mozilla.org news server and its mozilla support newsgroups were
set up around the beginning of 2006. The other servers's leaked copies
and their interconnection appeared over the next four years.

It is reasonable to expect someone who wants to hold forth on the
interconnection to have checked the actuals at some time over the past
10 years, and not rely on an untested assumption that is well over 10
years old.

>> Server news.mozilla.org is being closed soon, and is totally irrelevant to
>> the future after news.mozilla.org is closed. The Google groups archive for
>> mozilla.support.firefox will become read-only as GG has done with other
>> mozilla newsgroups which were "shuttered" in the past [see the announcement
>> <https://groups.google.com/g/mozilla.support.firefox/c/SxAJiCEQZAQ>].
>>
> There is a world outside news.Mozilla.org and Google groups, and should
> that world choose to carry these groups, there's nothing either of those
> can do about it: compare the microsoft.* groups (or even the Demon
> ones).

That was the point in my first reply in this thread. Thank you for reiterating it.

> Well, there's one thing they can do - prevent access to the
> archives (apart from what's leaked in the past).

The Google Groups archives will continue, according to Mozilla's announcement
which you can read here:
<https://groups.google.com/g/mozilla.support.firefox/c/SxAJiCEQZAQ>

> But they can't stop the
> 'groups continuing, if other servers start (or continue) to carry them,
> and start (or continue) to peer.

The other servers have been peering for a long time now. That is old news.
That is not new.


--
Kind regards
Ralph

[Adam H. Kerman]

J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6...@255soft.uk> wrote:

>>. . .

>There is a world outside news.Mozilla.org and Google groups, and should
>that world choose to carry these groups, there's nothing either of those
>can do about it:

Just a moment.

Institutional News servers with institutional newsgroups were once
somewhat common. There was no reason to peer. If newsgroups aren't
peered, they are institutional newsgroups and not Usenet newsgroups. If
the newsgroups are for user support at a News site itself, these are
local newsgroups. Some local groups are peered, which promotes the
inevitable thread, Is my News site down, or is it just me? No, it's down
for everybody. Does anyone know when it will be up? Yes. The News
administrator does. Then seamus will start the I'm being censored!

Sometimes, there is no valid reason to peer newsgroups that have a
specific function and aren't for general discussion.

In fact, given that these newsgroups were gated to mailing lists, not
peering kept the spam out from the Usenet side. It was probably a wise
choice.

I never got the complaint, But I have to become a user on the
institution's News server! I don't want to. Can they peer so I don't
have to?

Gah. Quality newsreaders make it straight forward to be a user on
multiple News servers.

>compare the microsoft.* groups (or even the Demon ones).

The microsoft.* server wasn't peered. Someone ran a suck feed to his
own News server, and THAT was peered. I'm not sure how the articles made
it back to the server from the Usenet side, but they did. Also, Julien
played hierarchy administrator, sending rmgroups every time Microsoft
removed a newsgroup. Everything about that hierarchy was unique.

>. . .