How do you edit an icon in one of the Windows system DLLs?

[Arlen Holder]

Two fundamentally basic Windows icon-editing questions:
(A) How do you edit an icon in one of the Windows system DLLs?
<https://i.postimg.cc/43GKMY2Z/icon01.jpg>
(B) Do you know _why_ the icon *changed* when viewed as a "large icon"?
<https://i.postimg.cc/mrVr58FN/icon-ico.jpg>
I was building a new shortcut for a multi-killswitch just now...
TARGET=%comspec% /c %Windir%\System32\taskkill.exe /im "prog1.exe" /t /f & %Windir%\System32\taskkill.exe /im "prog2.exe" /t /f

Where the icon I liked was inside the Windows system32 DLL:
%SystemRoot%\System32\SHELL32.dll

Only I wanted to overlay the classic angled red stripe across it.
o So I screenshotted it as a "large" icon so I could edit it as an ICO file

Lo and behold...
o <https://i.postimg.cc/43GKMY2Z/icon01.jpg>

The glove icon _changed_ right under my very own eyes!
o It was a "globe" when viewed as a small icon...
o It it _changed_ to a "dual-pane" when viewed as a larger icon.

Why?
o Has that ever happened to you?

Why does Windows do that?
o Have you noticed Windows _changes_ the icon depending on viewing size?

Anyway, I wasn't able to get the small icon large without it changing, so I
proceeded to use the large icon (which is a completely different icon!)
just to test the proof of concept of creating the icon from inside the DLL.
(1) I displayed the icon using "large icons" (which changed the icon!)
(2) I screenshotted it and opened it up in Irfanview freeware for edit
(3) In Irfanview I cropped with control+y & with control+shift+y
(4) In Irfanview I resized to 32x32 pixels as per the thread below
(5) I added a red stripe (which was the original goal)
(6) And I saved it as a *.ico icon file format from Irfanview
<https://i.postimg.cc/mrVr58FN/icon-ico.jpg>

Notice, in a sense, I failed to edit the original icon, so, the question
remains apropos as to whether you can tell me, and the rest of us so that
all benefit, how you would change the original globe icon from inside the
Windows system DLL.
--
Icon editing based on instructions found in the permanent Usenet record:
o *Tutorial for creating custom Windows icons from screenshots*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/xm6aHzaC-D8/uD1PLfk6DAAJ>

[Ed Cryer]

Windows 10 and icons! It must drive some poor programmer at Microsoft
into nightmares quite regularly!

Have you ever watched the WinExplorer output large size displays for a
folder containing many different file types? It slowly paints them
across the screen, as it builds them.

The difference you mention occurs with many icons from the OS dlls. The
library "Pictures", "Documents" and "Desktop" are typical. Usually a
yellow folder is added in the two higher formats.

BTW, have you ever wondered why "This PC" has to have its display
rebuilt each time you select it? Same basic reason!

Ed

[Ed Cryer]

If you look at, eg, shell32.dll with Icon Explorer
(https://www.mitec.cz/iconex.html), and click on any icon, you'll see
that it stores several versions (often 8 or 9) for each one.
And therein lies the tale and explanation of the phenomena we've mentioned.

Ed

[Big Al]

Windows uses ICO files and an ico can contain many different sizes, resolutions, or images in that one file. If you had an icon editor like
Greenfish Icon Editor Pro,(free), you could make your own, and it would show that you can make 32bit color, 8bit color etc. and sizes 8x8 up
to 256x256. Most icons come in several sizes so toolbars can use the small, the desktop can use various sizes as well as explorer using
several sizes.

To Arlen, I have used Resource Hacker to edit icons in program before, but it so long ago, I could never explain how if you paid me.

Al.

[Arlen Holder]

On Tue, 16 Jun 2020 21:04:56 +0100, Ed Cryer wrote:

> The difference you mention occurs with many icons from the OS dlls.

Hi Ed Cryer,

Thanks for purposefully helpfully explaining that the system DLL icons
comprise more than a half dozen "versions" of each icon.

The problem is how the heck does Windows know _when_ to switch them?
o And how does Windows know _what_ to switch them to?

Apparently, in my case:
o View Small Icons => shows the globe icon version
o View Large Icons => switched to the two-screens icon version instead
o View Extra Large Icons => again switched to the two-screens icon instead

Moving forward, I installed the suggested IconExplorer freeware and
"opened" %SystemRoot%\System32\SHELL32.dll and then selected the
"globe" icon, which, as you had foretold, contains multiple icons itself.
<https://i.postimg.cc/76ZvXJdf/icon03.jpg>

That freeware keeper shows that what I've been calling the "globe" icon is
actually named "shell32_13", which itself has 9 images, presumably called
versions [0], [1],...[8], which, as you suggested would happen, are
different icons in some cases (although none are the two-screen icon).

Interestingly, when I found the two-screen icon, which itself is named
"shell32_89", and it has 8 versions, the first of which is a PNG file of
size 256x256 pixels (which may explain why it shows up in large view).
<https://i.postimg.cc/NFhjn4cd/icon04.jpg>

Anyway, this kind of sort of explains _how_ Windows can switch from one
icon for "view > small icons" to another icon for "view > large icons"; but
it doesn't really explain it in this case simply they're different icons.
<https://i.postimg.cc/43GKMY2Z/icon01.jpg>

Nonetheless, I'm not going to worry about it because IconExplorer freeware
solved my problem of being able to edit the "globe" icon; so it doesn't
matter anymore why Windows is doing the crazy icon switching.

Thanks for your purposefully helpful advice, which solved my problem.
o I will write up a solution separately for how to edit a system DLL icon.
--
Together, purposefully helpful people make Usenet a useful public helpdesk.

[Arlen Holder]

On Tue, 16 Jun 2020 21:37:25 +0100, Ed Cryer wrote:

> If you look at, eg, shell32.dll with Icon Explorer
> (https://www.mitec.cz/iconex.html), and click on any icon, you'll see
> that it stores several versions (often 8 or 9) for each one.
> And therein lies the tale and explanation of the phenomena we've mentioned

Hi Ed Cryer,

That freeware suggestion almost instantly solved the stated problem!
o People like you are what make Usenet a wonderful helpful helpdesk!
<https://i.postimg.cc/8kBqrHYN/icon06.jpg>

Thanks for purposefully helpfully suggesting IconExplorer freeware, which
worked just fine to edit what I've been calling the "globe" icon, but which
is actually named the %SystemRoot%\System32\SHELL32.dll "shell32_13" icon.
<https://i.postimg.cc/76ZvXJdf/icon03.jpg>

What I've been calling the "two screen" icon is actually named
"shell32_89", whose [0] version is a PNG file of size 256x256 pixels
<https://i.postimg.cc/NFhjn4cd/icon04.jpg>

If I right click on the 256x256 pixel icon, I have three choices:
o Save to Icon...
o Save to Bitmap...
o Save to PNG...
<https://i.postimg.cc/SNJgdfKB/icon05.jpg>

Aha!

That solves the problem set of _how_ to edit the "globe" system DLL icon!

(1) Point IconExplorer freeware to "%SystemRoot%\System32\SHELL32.dll"
(2) Click on the largest "globe" icon (aka "shell32_13") in view
(3) Save as whatever format {png, bmp, ico} you can edit most easily
(4) I chose to save the largest globe as globe.bmp (IV can edit ICO files)
(5) Edit that file in any editor (e.g., I added the red circle & slash)
<https://i.postimg.cc/DwWj5dxW/globe.gif> (upload can't handle bmp)
(6) Save a black background & a white background version if desired
<https://i.postimg.cc/prxJHKQB/world-black.png> (upload converted it)
<https://i.postimg.cc/9f7dwLJp/world-white.png> (upload converted it)
(7) In Irfanview, control+shift+y to auto-crop exactly to the image borders
(8) In Irfanview, set to 32x32 pixels & save as an ico file
(9) In my case, I saved to "world_black.ico" & "world_white.ico"
(10) Right click your shortcut & set the icon to the desired *.ico above
<https://i.postimg.cc/8kBqrHYN/icon06.jpg>

The only remaining question is that of "transparent background"...
o Can a ICO file have a transparent background?
--
Usenet is a public helpdesk where people purposefully help each other.

[Wildman]

On Tue, 16 Jun 2020 22:49:31 +0000, Arlen Holder wrote:

> The only remaining question is that of "transparent background"...
> o Can a ICO file have a transparent background?

Of course it can.

--
<Wildman> GNU/Linux user #557453
The cow died so I don't need your bull!

[Arlen Holder]

On Tue, 16 Jun 2020 17:12:19 -0400, Big Al wrote:

> Windows uses ICO files and an ico can contain many different sizes, resolutions, or images in that one file. If you had an icon editor like
> Greenfish Icon Editor Pro,(free), you could make your own, and it would show that you can make 32bit color, 8bit color etc. and sizes 8x8 up
> to 256x256. Most icons come in several sizes so toolbars can use the small, the desktop can use various sizes as well as explorer using
> several sizes.
>
> To Arlen, I have used Resource Hacker to edit icons in program before, but it so long ago, I could never explain how if you paid me.

Hi Big Al,

What I _love_ about Usenet, is that people are purposefully helpful!
o Thanks to folks like you, the original problem is solved with freeware!
<https://i.postimg.cc/hPTCzbtc/icon08.jpg>

The problem was how to add this red circle+slash to the globe icon:
<https://i.postimg.cc/HnrdTvww/icon07.jpg>

Essentially, the 3-step solution was the following:
(A) Use IconEditor to view & save the desired icon as a {BMP,PNG,ICO} file
(B) Use any image editor to modify & save the result as a 32x32 ICO file
(C) Set the shortcut to point to that newly crafted ICO image.

In my case, the shortcut target was to kill a given set of programs, e.g.,
o TARGET=%comspec% /c taskkill /im "prog1.exe" /t /f & taskkill /im "prog2.exe" /t /f

Regarding Greenfish Icon Editor freeware... I found mention of it here:
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/QH1BR7SbrHg>
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/BHNpgphC1R8>

In hindsight, I also found it in some of my own threads from the past:
o *Can Irfanview alone make a transparent background of a multi-color background?*
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/KCk4FpM9vZM>

In that thread, for example, the following are mentioned:
o greenfish icon editor <http://www.greenfishsoftware.org/gfie.php>
o icofx (v1.6.4 is best) <https://www.icofx.ro/downloads.html>
o icoconvert online converter <https://icoconvert.com/>
o foldermarker <http://foldermarker.com/FolderMarker_Free.exe>
o downloadable icon packages
o the 16 main locations for icons in the Windows folders
o online icon creation web pages
etc.

To which I need to add "iconexplorer"
o <https://www.mitec.cz/iconex.html>

As shown in my current software flash drive:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/hPTCzbtc/icon08.jpg>

Since every thread to Usenet should add general purpose value that we can
use now, and in the future (found by the public web-searchable archives):
o <http://tinyurl.com/rec-photo-digital>
o <http://tinyurl.com/alt-comp-freeware>
o <http://alt.comp.os.windows-10.narkive.com>

This new solution will add value to the previous solution found over here:

o *Tutorial for creating custom Windows icons from screenshots*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/xm6aHzaC-D8/uD1PLfk6DAAJ>

That first tutorial is creating icons from screenshots; whereas this new
tutorial is for modifying existing Windows system icons found in DLLs.
o *How do you edit an icon in one of the Windows system DLLs?*
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.photo.digital/lAJV8OZdZjg>
--
As always, please improve with your purposefully helpful suggestions.

[Mayayana]

"Big Al" <Big...@invalid.com> wrote

| Windows uses ICO files and an ico can contain many different sizes,
resolutions, or images in that one file. If you had an icon editor like
| Greenfish Icon Editor Pro,(free), you could make your own, and it would
show that you can make 32bit color, 8bit color etc. and sizes 8x8 up
| to 256x256. Most icons come in several sizes so toolbars can use the
small, the desktop can use various sizes as well as explorer using
| several sizes.
|

I think that it can also be a PNG in newer Windows versions,
but I don't know the details of how that works.

| To Arlen, I have used Resource Hacker to edit icons in program before, but
it so long ago, I could never explain how if you paid me.
|

It wouldn't be possible to edit an icon in a system file
due to permissions. What one can do is to make an
icon and then assign that to a shortcut. In addition
to Greenfish, there's IcoFX that I use. I don't know
whether it's still free. IcoFX can also make a multi-image
ICO file. I like to take an image and then paste that into
an icon editor and work from there. It's much easier to
start with something like a reduced-size face than to draw
a face using one pixel at a time.

[Arlen Holder]

UPDATE:

Usenet is a wonderful public web-searchable archive of useful tutorials.
o As always, please improve such that all benefit from every thread.

The main thing left is to make icons with a transparent background
so that they show up well no matter what the screen color may be.

o *Tutorial for modifying icons inside common Windows system DLLs*
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.photo.digital/lAJV8OZdZjg>
o <https://i.postimg.cc/hPTCzbtc/icon08.jpg>
o <https://i.postimg.cc/HnrdTvww/icon07.jpg>
o <https://i.postimg.cc/SNJgdfKB/icon05.jpg>
o <https://i.postimg.cc/NFhjn4cd/icon04.jpg>
o <https://i.postimg.cc/76ZvXJdf/icon03.jpg>
o <https://i.postimg.cc/X7VKMQGM/icon02.jpg>
o <https://i.postimg.cc/43GKMY2Z/icon01.jpg>

o *Tutorial for creating custom Windows icons from screenshots*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/xm6aHzaC-D8/uD1PLfk6DAAJ>

o <https://i.postimg.cc/cHVqvPPb/icon03.jpg>
o <https://i.postimg.cc/3N7ZdRSb/icon02.jpg>
o <https://i.postimg.cc/vHc2THz3/icon01.jpg>

o *Tutorial with details to properly set {batch,shortcut,target} icons*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.msdos.batch/ndNW-4oDewY/iQzDf15OBQAJ>

o *Tutorial to find all icons hidden inside common Windows executables & DLLs*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/-1nQdP8E_Yc/VILrouTSBAAJ>

o *Where to find thousands of free open source mobile device related icons*
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/0lQELGmVc0U>

o *Examples of custom icons used for various Windows shutdown shortcuts*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.msdos.batch/ndNW-4oDewY/siPvrsBVBQAJ>

o *Tutorial to get batch command shortcuts working perfectly on Windows*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/1PzeGP4KMTU/tTbcd9zxAAAJ>

o *Here are over 250 Win+R > Run commands to set your shortcut TARGET to*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/cc1lGn3ty0E/DH_FxVCjAAAJ>

o *The unintuitive syntax to set a shortcut TARGET line to multiple commands*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.msdos.batch/azQbz6D_v0Y/zwvOqeCmEAAJ>

o *What useful Windows shortcuts would you like to share with users?*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/80ZHKKFom0c/RN3V0Av6BQAJ>

o *Quick tutorial for creating easy (Start > Run) access to lookup files on Windows*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/5LxGOixwwWs/q8wVoJ3mBAAJ>

o *Tutorial for setting up a well-organized consistent efficient Windows menu system*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/eWU-jOkFRtU/lkVU8yolBQAJ>

o *Shortcuts with special icons to shutdown & reboot Windows on command*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.msdos.batch/ndNW-4oDewY/siPvrsBVBQAJ>
etc.
--
Every thread to Usenet archives should help someone now & in the future.

[Arlen Holder]

On Tue, 16 Jun 2020 20:27:36 -0400, Mayayana wrote:

> I think that it can also be a PNG in newer Windows versions,
> but I don't know the details of how that works.

Notice this is apparently a PNG file in Windows 10 Pro, version 1909:
<https://i.postimg.cc/NFhjn4cd/icon04.jpg>

> It wouldn't be possible to edit an icon in a system file
> due to permissions. What one can do is to make an
> icon and then assign that to a shortcut. In addition
> to Greenfish, there's IcoFX that I use. I don't know
> whether it's still free. IcoFX can also make a multi-image
> ICO file.

Notice we covered these as the best freeware for this purpose:
<https://i.postimg.cc/hPTCzbtc/icon08.jpg>

> I like to take an image and then paste that into
> an icon editor and work from there. It's much easier to
> start with something like a reduced-size face than to draw
> a face using one pixel at a time.

Notice we covered that topic in gory detail over here:

o *Tutorial for creating custom Windows icons from screenshots*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/xm6aHzaC-D8/uD1PLfk6DAAJ>

o <https://i.postimg.cc/cHVqvPPb/icon03.jpg>
o <https://i.postimg.cc/3N7ZdRSb/icon02.jpg>
o <https://i.postimg.cc/vHc2THz3/icon01.jpg>

--
People who filter out facts are always the ones most immune to them.

[Paul]

Mayayana wrote:

> It wouldn't be possible to edit an icon in a system file
> due to permissions.

Think how much an OS hates it when you do that :-)
Windows File Protection, signed system files (loader
can detect that the signing is invalid). Trying to
do that while Windows Defender is watching. It'll be
the HAL9000 all over again.

People have been trying to do this since uxtheme.dll
in Windows XP.

But if you need a hobby...

If you succeed, you'll be famous. You might even
end up with your own wanted poster.

Paul

[Paul in Houston TX]

Resource Hacker, system32.dll, icon group 200, the biggest one
is 48x48, Ordinal name 2317 and 2320. So now you know the names.
Go up to Icon and open 2317 or 2320 and save as icon.
I used to replace them on XP. Have not tried on 7 or 10.

[Arlen Holder]

On Tue, 16 Jun 2020 22:49:31 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> The only remaining question is that of "transparent background"...

SOLVED:
By experimentation, I was able to easily transparize icon backgrounds.

All you have to do is tell Irfanview to save the ico file with a
transparent background and that's it (the PNG transparent background didn't
work).

Your main freeware photo editor has to handle ico files with a transparent
background, where mine didn't, but that was ok because Irfanview can pretty
much read anything & then save that as an ico with transparent background.

The icon I chose to edit & then transparize is the "magnifying glass" icon:
o %SystemRoot%\System32\SHELL32.dll {shell32_22_4.ico}

It was so easy, I'll just show the screenshots to illustrate the steps:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/K8Rj3yYs/icon09.jpg>
o <https://i.postimg.cc/YSFS8fY6/icon10.jpg>
o <https://i.postimg.cc/cHMLGxD6/icon11.jpg>
o <https://i.postimg.cc/Df6wCzJM/icon12.jpg>
--
Note, since this was a test, I didn't bother matching the sizes of the old
to new icon, which changed slightly in size between before & after editing.

[Arlen Holder]

On Tue, 16 Jun 2020 21:05:39 -0500, Paul in Houston TX wrote:

> Resource Hacker, system32.dll, icon group 200, the biggest one
> is 48x48, Ordinal name 2317 and 2320. So now you know the names.
> Go up to Icon and open 2317 or 2320 and save as icon.
> I used to replace them on XP. Have not tried on 7 or 10.

Thanks for the advice to try resource hacker freeware:
o <http://angusj.com/resourcehacker/>

The high cost of freeware is in two things:
a. Finding the best (which takes advice from helpful folks like you)
b. Testing them out (which is kind of sort of what I like to do)

On their web site, they document the same (or similar) icon as mine:
<http://angusj.com/resourcehacker/rh_icon.png>
<http://angusj.com/resourcehacker/rh_main_menu.png>

So others can just click, the version 5.1.7 exe is apparently here:
o <http://angusj.com/resourcehacker/reshacker_setup.exe>

And the ZIP file apparently here:
o <http://angusj.com/resourcehacker/resource_hacker.zip>

From just skimming the web page, this seems like a powerful tool.
o With uses far beyond editing of icon ico files.

However, apparently, with Resource Hacker, we can export the icon files out
of the system DLLs, which we also did with the tested Icon Explorer.

Hence, I think, if I understood correctly in my skim of the resource hacker
web page, the related added value is we can likely use it to IMPORT our
modified icon back into the Windows system DLL, although that may cause
permission issues (which Paul and others mentioned M$ might not like).

I installed Resource Manager, and clicked about, and opened up the file
%SystemRoot%\System32\SHELL32.dll but was unsuccessful and gave up after a
minute or two as about the only thing that I can't (yet) do is _add_ the
newly modified icon to the original Windows system DLL, which might not
work anyway.
--
The extremly high cost of freeware is in effort needed to find the best!

[John C.]

Wildman wrote:
> Arlen Holder wrote:
>
>> The only remaining question is that of "transparent background"...
>> o Can a ICO file have a transparent background?
>
> Of course it can.

I use these two programs (which are, or were when I downloaded them,
freeware):

Greenfish Icon Editor: http://greenfishsoftware.org/gfie.php#apage
(Windows, Linux, Portable, 32 and 64 bit versions available.)

Quick Any2Ico: https://www.carifred.com/quick_any2ico/
("Quick Any2Ico is a free portable application that creates high quality
icon files from any file, folder or resource. It can also add or remove
image formats from icon files, save the extracted icons in the PNG
format and much more.")

There are other icon editor programs, but I long ago settled on these as
the least problematic.

--
John Corliss BS206. No ad, CD, commercial, cripple, demo, nag, pirated,
share, spy, time-limited, trial or web wares for me please. I filter out
posts made from Google Groups and recommend you do likewise. I've
killfiled VanguardLH too. Can't see his messages.

[wasbit]

"Mayayana" <maya...@invalid.nospam> wrote in message
news:rcbo2s$evk$1...@dont-email.me...
> "Big Al" <Big...@invalid.com> wrote
> snip <

> It wouldn't be possible to edit an icon in a system file
> due to permissions. What one can do is to make an
> icon and then assign that to a shortcut. In addition
> to Greenfish, there's IcoFX that I use. I don't know
> whether it's still free. IcoFX can also make a multi-image
> ICO file. I like to take an image and then paste that into
> an icon editor and work from there. It's much easier to
> start with something like a reduced-size face than to draw
> a face using one pixel at a time.
>
>

Icofx last freeware version 1.6.4
- http://www.321download.com/LastFreeware/page40.html#IcoFX

Regards
wasbit

[Mayayana]

"wasbit" <wasbit...@hotmail.com> wrote

| Icofx last freeware version 1.6.4
| - http://www.321download.com/LastFreeware/page40.html#IcoFX
|

Ah. Nice to know some things don't change every year. :)
That's the same version I have.

[Mayayana]

"Paul in Houston TX" <Pa...@Houston.Texas> wrote

| Resource Hacker, system32.dll, icon group 200, the biggest one
| is 48x48, Ordinal name 2317 and 2320. So now you know the names.
| Go up to Icon and open 2317 or 2320 and save as icon.
| I used to replace them on XP. Have not tried on 7 or 10.
|

For anyone who's interested, I wrote a VBScript some
years ago to extract icons:

https://www.jsware.net/jsware/scrfiles.php5#iconextr

It's fairly basic. You can extract a single icon or
compound ones. The download has a help file that explains
it. The extraction doesn't use system APIs or anything similar.
Rather, it directly reads the file bytes to find the resource
section, then copies out the relevant bytes, then reconstitutes
the icons based on the data found there. The icons are
stored as bitmaps and lack only a small file header to get
the full ICO file. The script checks the size and then adds
in the appropriate header. You can just drop something like
shell32.dll onto the script (if you have permission for drag/drop)
and it will recreate all the icons in a few seconds. No system
file permissions are needed and there's no risk because the
script only reads the file bytes, without attempting to edit
the file or call functions in the file.

[Mayayana]

A couple of notes I should mention about the icon extractor:


1) Look at the .html help file. A minor edit to choose
extraction path is required before use.

2) I haven't tried the extractor with 64-bit files. It
can work fine, but offhand I'm not sure whether it would
need to be adapted to deal with 64-bit pointers. It
depends on what changes Microsoft may have made
(or not) to the 64-bit file header. A PE file header (EXE,
DLL, OCX) is very complex and parsing it requires walking
various series of pointers: Read bytes at offset x to find the
offset y, which will be the start of a 4-byte pointer
that indicates the offset of the beginning of the bytes
that make up the resource table.... and so on. The
icon extractor was written to deal with the 1-, 2- and
4-byte numeric values stored in a Win32 PE header. There's
no reason to add 8-byte numeric values, but MS could have
done that as part of the Win64 redesign. If they did then
the extractor might need to be edited to produce a 64-bit
version.

[Wildman]

On Tue, 16 Jun 2020 23:17:00 -0700, John C. wrote:

> Wildman wrote:
>> Arlen Holder wrote:
>>
>>> The only remaining question is that of "transparent background"...
>>> o Can a ICO file have a transparent background?
>>
>> Of course it can.
>
> I use these two programs (which are, or were when I downloaded them,
> freeware):
>
> Greenfish Icon Editor: http://greenfishsoftware.org/gfie.php#apage
> (Windows, Linux, Portable, 32 and 64 bit versions available.)
>
> Quick Any2Ico: https://www.carifred.com/quick_any2ico/
> ("Quick Any2Ico is a free portable application that creates high quality
> icon files from any file, folder or resource. It can also add or remove
> image formats from icon files, save the extracted icons in the PNG
> format and much more.")
>
> There are other icon editor programs, but I long ago settled on these as
> the least problematic.

I have Greenfish installed. Good program. Back in my
Windows/VB6 days I used a program called Microangelo.
Of course it is payware but an excellent program.

http://microangelo.us/advanced-icon-editor/XP-icon-editor.asp

[Arlen Holder]

On Wed, 17 Jun 2020 09:57:24 +0100, wasbit wrote:

> Icofx last freeware version 1.6.4
> - http://www.321download.com/LastFreeware/page40.html#IcoFX

Hi wasbit,

Thanks for that purposefully helpful suggestion for others.
o You have to get the right (old) version, as you noted.

So that everyone always benefits, I dug up my notes on icofx:
o Everything below is from my old notes in my software archives.

===
Dropbox link to an old freeware version of IcoFX.
<https://www.dropbox.com/s/g6ge41cpulnqzps/icofx_164_setup.exe?dl=0>

Name: icofx_164_last_freeware_setup.exe
Size: 1541684 bytes (1505 KiB)
SHA256: 19B79CAE2FAC4372DCE4DCC6FB001B97A30ADF68835303DA28336734267AA5FA

http://www.portablefreeware.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=40061
which implies this is the last known freeware available
and that the original author says he's OK with it being available.

Most on that page seem to say the MD5 hash of 1.6.4.0 is
MD5 069E5551B7DEEE6F37833E8930E66A34 17.11.2008 21:15

Which is said to be here
http://www.321download.com/LastFreeware/page40.html#IcoFX
===
Also...
http://www.lupopensuite.com/db/icofx.htm
certutil -hashfile IcoFX.exe MD5
MD5 hash of IcoFX.exe:
14aeada479ae59ef3248c9f8c2befbf0
CertUtil: -hashfile command completed successfully.
===
--
On Usenet, the purposefully helpful people add value to the thread.

[Arlen Holder]

On Wed, 17 Jun 2020 08:11:40 -0400, Mayayana wrote:

> That's the same version I have.

So that others benefit from our actions, where we always keep in mind that
the high cost of freeware can be lowered when others provide their advice,
here is my ad hoc log file, from long ago, when I tested icoFX trialware.

IcoFX version 3.2.1 (30-day trialware)
https://www.icofx.ro/downloads.html
===
https://www.icofx.ro/files/icofxsetup.exe
Check custom installation
C:\Program Files (x86)\icofx3
Associate IcoFX with the ico/cur file extension
===
It wants to go into C:\Program Files (x86)\icofx3
I put it instead into C:\app\editor\icon\icofx
===
https://icofx.ro/tutorials3/index.html
https://icofx.ro/tutorials3/tut5.html
===
000 I installed https://www.icofx.ro/files/icofxsetup.exe 30-day trialware
001 I downloaded https://i.imgur.com/sk2SYH6.png
002 I saved as C:\Users\<user>\Desktop\sk2SYH6.png
003 I started IcoFX version 3.2.1 30-day trialware
004 IcoFX:File, Open, C:\Users\<user>\Desktop\sk2SyH6.png
Create a Windows icon from the image
005 IcoFX:File, Save, C:\Users\<user>\Desktop\gitfolder.ico
006 IcoFX:Tools, Icon Resource Editor, Add, C:\Users\<user>\Desktop\gitfolder.ico
007 IcoFX:Tools, Icon Resource Editor, Save, C:\Users\<user>\Desktop\myicon.icl
008 IcoFX:Tools, File, Exit

I was able to set the icon of a shortcut to that one icon.
Shortcut: Properties, Change Icon, %USERPROFILE%\Desktop\gitfolder.ico,
(select the one icon), OK, OK

Notice I used the "ico" and not the "icl", which only works because you can
put a single icon into an ico file (apparently) but if you want more icons
than just one, you need to put them into an "icl" icon library.

To add a second & third icon to an "ICO" library, I picked these files
https://www.tenforums.com/geek/gars/images/2/types/thumb__usic_folder.png
https://winaero.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/before.png

I saved "thumb_usic_folder.png" as C:\Users\<user>\Desktop\music.png
I saved "before.png" as C:\Users\<user>\Desktop\lock.png

Back in IcoFX, I added those two icons to the myicon.icl library.
001 I started IcoFX version 3.2.1 30-day trialware
002 IcoFX:File, Open, C:\Users\<user>\Desktop\music.png
Create a Windows icon from the image
003 IcoFX:File, Save, C:\Users\<user>\Desktop\music.ico
004 IcoFX:File, Open, C:\Users\<user>\Desktop\lock.png
Create a Windows icon from the image
005 IcoFX:File, Save, C:\Users\<user>\Desktop\lock.ico
006 IcoFX:Tools, Icon Resource Editor, Open,
C:\Users\<user>\Desktop\myicon.icl
007 IcoFX:Tools, Icon Resource Editor, Add,
C:\Users\<user>\Desktop\music.ico
008 IcoFX:Tools, Icon Resource Editor, Add,
C:\Users\<user>\Desktop\lock.ico
009 IcoFX:Tools, Icon Resource Editor, Save,
C:\Users\<user>\Desktop\myicon.icl
010 IcoFX:Tools, File, Exit

I was able to set the icon of a shortcut to one of those three icons.
Shortcut: Properties, Change Icon, %USERPROFILE%\Desktop\myicon.icl
(select any of the three icons), OK, OK
===
If you need icons, you can mine any of these native Windows files:
C:\windows\system32\shell32.dll (default icon location)
C:\windows\system32\imageres.dll (folders, devices, actions)
C:\windows\system32\ddores.dll (hardware devices and resources)
C:\windows\system32\pifmgr.dll (old-style icons of Windows 95 vintage)
C:\windows\system32\inetcpl.cpl (old-style icons of Windows 95 vintage)
C:\windows\system32\moricons.dll (old-style icons of Windows 95 vintage)
C:\windows\system32\mmcndmgr.dll (old-style computer management icons)
C:\windows\system32\accessibilitycpl.dll (accessibility features icons)
C:\windows\system32\mmres.dll (audio speakers, headphones, microphones)
C:\windows\system32\netcenter.dll (network settings and features)
C:\windows\system32\netshell.dll (network connections & hardware)
C:\windows\system32\networkexplorer.dll (network connections & hardware)
C:\windows\system32\twinui.dll (twin screens icons)
C:\windows\explorer.exe (file explorer icons)
C:\windows\system32\gameux.dll (gaming icons)
C:\windows\system32\mspaint.exe (paint-related icons)
--
The high cost of freeware is mainly in finding & installing only the best.

[Arlen Holder]

SUMMARY:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/rwxdSpv6/icon13.jpg>

As always, the value of Usenet is greatest when the OP summarizes the
results, where we've, together, concluded these are the most highly
recommended freeware programs for extracting, creating, & modifying Windows
icons, for use with your own shortcuts, batch files, and TARGET lines.

C:\software\editor\icon\{foldermarker, greenfish, icofx, iconexplorer,
jsware_iconextr, quickany2ico, resourcehacker}
As shown in this screenshot below taken just now:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/rwxdSpv6/icon13.jpg>

As always, the thread proceeded the way Usenet was designed to work:
1. The OP searched, tested, & then posted a question asking for help
2. Purposefully helpful people offered their advice and experiences
3. The OP tested all viable suggestions & solved the stated problems.

Then the OP summarized (and updated) as needed, the results of the test,
always including annotated screenshots, links, log files, and experience.

To further flesh out the permanent Usenet record, not only for now, but for
all users to find in the future, here are the most often suggested free
tools (most of which were tested by the OP & reported on in the posts):
o *foldermarker*
<http://foldermarker.com/FolderMarker_Free.exe>
o *greenfish*
<http://www.greenfishsoftware.org/gfie.php>
o *icofx* (last known good version is 1.6.4)
<https://www.icofx.ro/downloads.html>
o *icon explorer*
<https://www.mitec.cz/iconex.html>
o jsware *iconextr*
<https://www.jsware.net/jsware/zips/iconex.zip>
o quick *any2ico*
<https://www.carifred.com/quick_any2ico/>
o *resource hacker*
<http://angusj.com/resourcehacker/>

Given the purpose of Usenet is not only to learn, but to disseminate
knowledge, please improve, so that everyone benefits from every post.
--
Helpful advice lowers the high expense of freeware by decreasing its cost.

[Arlen Holder]

On Wed, 17 Jun 2020 10:23:33 -0500, Wildman wrote:

> I have Greenfish installed. Good program. Back in my
> Windows/VB6 days I used a program called Microangelo.
> Of course it is payware but an excellent program.
>
> http://microangelo.us/advanced-icon-editor/XP-icon-editor.asp

I apologize that I didn't see this until now as I was responding on the
other newsgroups which apparently are no longer in the Newsgroup field.

I appreciate the purposefully helpful advice that makes Usenet so valuable.

As always, I've downloaded _all_ the viable freeware suggestions, and, as
always, I've tested the most promising until the problem was solved (which
was solved yesterday).
1. We can now create our own icons (with transparency) at will
2. We can modify any of the icons found in the Windows icon resources
3. We can even apparently write back to the Windows resources (not tested).

The current most suggested freeware software hierarchy is as shown below:
<https://i.postimg.cc/rwxdSpv6/icon13.jpg>

C:\software\editor\icon\{foldermarker, greenfish, icofx, iconexplorer,
jsware_iconextr, quickany2ico, resourcehacker}

[Mayayana]

"Alan Baker" <nu...@ness.biz> wrote

| > Two fundamentally basic Windows icon-editing questions:
| > (A) How do you edit an icon in one of the Windows system DLLs?
|

| Why in the world would you want to do so.
|
| Icons are useful for HUMAN interactions with files on a computer.
|
| DLLs are not files with which the user ever needs to interact directly.
|

On Windows, system DLLs house most of the system
icons. Many of them are in shell32.dll. Thus the idea of
editing them.

[Arlen Holder]

On Wed, 17 Jun 2020 16:12:21 -0400, Mayayana wrote:

>| Why in the world would you want to do so.
>|
>| Icons are useful for HUMAN interactions with files on a computer.
>|
>| DLLs are not files with which the user ever needs to interact directly.
>|
>
> On Windows, system DLLs house most of the system
> icons. Many of them are in shell32.dll. Thus the idea of
> editing them.

Notice how _sure_ of his knowledge, Alan Baker is, where he's clearly in
the left side of Quadrant I, Dunning-Kruger (i.e., he is so ignorant, that
he doesn't have a clue how ignorant he really is).

He's a twin brother of Diesel, for example, and yet, even Diesel doesn't
stalk like Alan Baker stalks people.

While, time and again, Alan Baker proves he doesn't even own the most basic
of adult cognitive skills, that's not why he's a truly dangerous person.

Just for the permanent Usenet record to record, there are only two people,
in two decades, I needed to plonk, Snit, and this Alan Baker guy.

It isn't so much that (I estimate) Alan Baker's IQ is around 40 that caused
me to add him to my killfiles, but that he's stalking me around the net,
from newsgroup to newsgroup, where he literally scares me how much he
stalks me.

Again, it's not just that he's stupid (as his own posts prove how stupid he
really is), nor that his posts prove that he's a worthless piece of shit
(since many people have never once in their lives posted any value to
Usenet)... but that he's a psychopathic stalker.
--
Some people, like Alan Baker, are truly dangerous psychopathic morons.

[Wildman]

On Wed, 17 Jun 2020 20:01:25 +0000, Arlen Holder wrote:

> On Wed, 17 Jun 2020 10:23:33 -0500, Wildman wrote:
>
>> I have Greenfish installed. Good program. Back in my
>> Windows/VB6 days I used a program called Microangelo.
>> Of course it is payware but an excellent program.
>>
>> http://microangelo.us/advanced-icon-editor/XP-icon-editor.asp
>
> I apologize that I didn't see this until now as I was responding on the
> other newsgroups which apparently are no longer in the Newsgroup field.

Yes, I cut the X-posts. I don't usually post to groups that
I don't read.

[Arlen Holder]

On Wed, 17 Jun 2020 17:03:37 -0500, Wildman wrote:

>> I apologize that I didn't see this until now as I was responding on the
>> other newsgroups which apparently are no longer in the Newsgroup field.
>
> Yes, I cut the X-posts. I don't usually post to groups that
> I don't read.

Hi Wildman,

No problem.
o I appreciate your advice that transparency is easy with ICON files.

I had added the three groups, each for a reason...

*Windows*: Because it's inherently a Windows question
o <http://alt.comp.os.windows-10.narkive.com>

*Photo*: Because, it's also inherently a digital format question
o <http://tinyurl.com/rec.photo.digital>

*Freeware*: Because a general solution is always going to be via freewareo
o <http://tinyurl.com/alt.comp.freeware>

However, I do check in frequently on a.c.f, as I'm a self-described
freeware junkie (where I believe almost everything I need to do can be done
well with freeware, where my freeware archives are extensive):
o <https://i.postimg.cc/rwxdSpv6/icon13.jpg>

While I deplore the many worthless pieces of shit on Usenet (for them, it's
a chit-chat amusement medium)... what I love about Usenet is that there are
a goodly number of knowledgeable purposefully helpful people, like you and
me.

An example of the worthless pieces of shit we have to deal with would be,
in this thread, Alan Baker, who posted with zero helpful intent (and worse,
he was dead wrong, even as his intent was to insult and not to help).

An example of the wonderful people who make Usenet great, and therefore,
who posted with purposefully helpful intent was just about everyone else,
e.g., Ed Cryer, Big Al, Mayayana, Paul, wasbit, Wildman, John C., Paul in
Houston TX, and me).

This thread exemplifies what's good about Usenet for solving problems:
a. I posted with as good a description of the problem set as I could do
b. People helped out by answering the stated questions
c. As always, I tested all viable suggestions - and reported back

As such, this thread is an excellent example, of all that's good on Usenet.
o Thank you for contributing with adult purposefully helpful intent.
--
Freeware is far less expensive when you get advice from helpful people.

[John C.]

I block all posts that are cross-posted. There are newsfeeds that don't
allow you to cross-post in fact.

Also, instead of posting a link to a picture that showed some folder
names that people might or might not be able to use to figure out which
programs you're referring to, the tradition in this newsgroup
(alt.comp.freeware) has always been to post a message with (a) brief
description(s) of the programs you're referring to along with links to
their home pages at the very least.

[p-0''0-h the cat (coder)]

On Wed, 17 Jun 2020 23:56:56 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder
<arlen...@newmachine.com> wrote:

>While I deplore the many worthless pieces of shit on Usenet (for them, it's
>a chit-chat amusement medium)... what I love about Usenet is that there are
>a goodly number of knowledgeable purposefully helpful people, like you and
>me.
>
>An example of the worthless pieces of shit we have to deal with would be,

>in this thread <snipped>

When Shit the cat declares that you are his favourite Usenet twit, you
should realise that it's time to shut the fuck up.

Just sayin'. Carry on. LOL.

Sent from my iFurryUnderbelly.

--
p-0.0-h the cat

Internet Terrorist, Mass sock puppeteer, Agent provocateur, Gutter rat,
Devil incarnate, Linux user#666, BaStarD hacker, Resident evil, Monkey Boy,
Certifiable criminal, Spineless cowardly scum, textbook Psychopath,
the SCOURGE, l33t p00h d3 tr0ll, p00h == lam3r, p00h == tr0ll, troll infâme,
the OVERCAT [The BEARPAIR are dead, and we are its murderers], lowlife troll,
shyster [pending approval by STATE_TERROR], cripple, sociopath, kook,
smug prick, smartarse, arsehole, moron, idiot, imbecile, snittish scumbag,
liar, total ******* retard, shill, pooh-seur, scouringerer, jumped up chav,
punk ass dole whore troll, no nothing innumerate religious maniac,
lycanthropic schizotypal lesbian, the most complete ignoid, joker, and furball.

NewsGroups Numbrer One Terrorist

Honorary SHYSTER and FRAUD awarded for services to Haberdashery.
By Appointment to God Frank-Lin.

Signature integrity check
md5 Checksum: be0b2a8c486d83ce7db9a459b26c4896

I mark any message from »Q« the troll as stinky

[R.Wieser]

Arlen,

> Notice how _sure_ of his knowledge, Alan Baker is, where he's
> clearly in the left side of Quadrant I, Dunning-Kruger (i.e., he is
> so ignorant, that he doesn't have a clue how ignorant he really is).

Oh lolz! The pot calling the kettle black. :-D

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

[Arlen Holder]

On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 00:04:19 -0700, John C. wrote:

> Also, instead of posting a link to a picture that showed some folder
> names that people might or might not be able to use to figure out which
> programs you're referring to, the tradition in this newsgroup
> (alt.comp.freeware) has always been to post a message with (a) brief
> description(s) of the programs you're referring to along with links to
> their home pages at the very least.

Hi John C.,

I _love_ advice on how to improve dissemination of newly learned solutions!

Yours is good advice, where, while I deplore that the trolls have started
to infest this thread now that all the heavy lifting is done, I do very
much appreciate additional well meant advice such as yours was, and is.

Of those three suggestions, I already posted in the solution summary
two of the three things you suggested I post regarding the freeware tools:
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.comp.freeware/2MwGkAqtjhM/ZivoUIuJBAAJ>
(1) A list of the free apps that worked (or which were suggested to work)
(2) A link to the home page (I generally provide the download page link)

To which I will add:
(3) A short description of how the free tool was used (or can be used)

Here's that previously posted snippet, verbatim, as I had posted it prior:

o *foldermarker*
<http://foldermarker.com/FolderMarker_Free.exe>
o *greenfish*
<http://www.greenfishsoftware.org/gfie.php>
o *icofx* (last known good version is 1.6.4)
<https://www.icofx.ro/downloads.html>
o *icon explorer*
<https://www.mitec.cz/iconex.html>
o jsware *iconextr*
<https://www.jsware.net/jsware/zips/iconex.zip>
o quick *any2ico*
<https://www.carifred.com/quick_any2ico/>
o *resource hacker*
<http://angusj.com/resourcehacker/>

Here's, what I think, you just asked me to write for the team:
o Where keeping the description to a single line is the hard work! :)

*Folder Marker*
o Change folder icon or color by one mouse click. Label folders.
<http://foldermarker.com/en/>

*Greenfish Icon Editor Pro
o Image editor for creating icons, cursors, animations & icon libraries.
<http://www.greenfishsoftware.org/gfie.php>

*Ico FX (last known freeware version is 1.6.4, available on the net)
o Image editor for icon creation, extraction & editing (incl. transparency)
Canonical site: <https://www.icofx.ro/>
v1.6.4: <http://www.321download.com/LastFreeware/page40.html#IcoFX>

*Icon Explorer*
o Recursive search & extract icons (single or en masse) on your system.
<https://www.mitec.cz/iconex.html>

JSWare *iconextr*
o VBScript by Mayayana, to extract icons from PE files (EXE, DLL, etc.)
<https://www.jsware.net/jsware/scrfiles.php5#iconextr>

Quick *Any2Ico*
o Extracts icon files from any file, folder or resource (plus minor edits).
<https://www.carifred.com/quick_any2ico/>

*Resource Hacker*
o General purpose resource compiler & decompiler (e.g., it extracts icons).
<http://angusj.com/resourcehacker/>

BTW, while I am happy to provide this improvement, so that all benefit from
every action, I will need to also incorporate this helpful addition into a
response to the other related newsgroups (so the permanent record is
intact).

Given the worthless pieces of shit have begun to infest this thread now
that the heavy work has been accomplished, I'll likely respond to one of
the trolls who never provide value (e.g., Rudy Wieser) with this
value-added addition (which a.c.f folks will then see posted twice).
--
Nothing I post is by accident; the overall strategy is always to add value.

[BouffantTHairdo]

On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 13:38:03 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder
<arlen...@newmachine.com> wrote:

>Given the worthless pieces of shit have begun to infest this thread now
>that the heavy work has been accomplished, I'll likely respond to one of

>the trolls who never provide value (e.g., Scaly Ron) with this

>value-added addition (which a.c.f folks will then see posted twice).

Exciting!

[Arlen Holder]

On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 10:58:04 +0200, R.Wieser wrote:

> Oh lolz! The pot calling the kettle black. :-D
> Regards,
> Rudy Wieser

Hi Rudy Wieser,

You are well known to never post with purposefully helpful intent...
o And you yet again, prove my analysis of you correct, with this post.

Given the worthless pieces of shit have begun to infest this thread now

that the heavy work has been accomplished...

Here is an additional value-added summary which was purposefully helpfully
suggested by John C over in the a.c.f newsgroup earlier this morning:
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.comp.freeware/2MwGkAqtjhM/v1Scw8itBAAJ>

On Thu, 18 Jun 2020 00:04:19 -0700, John C. wrote:

> Also, instead of posting a link to a picture that showed some folder
> names that people might or might not be able to use to figure out which
> programs you're referring to, the tradition in this newsgroup
> (alt.comp.freeware) has always been to post a message with (a) brief
> description(s) of the programs you're referring to along with links to
> their home pages at the very least.

Given I'm always all about not only striving to add value with every post
o But also about improving the solution summary for everyone to benefit

Here's the result of what John C. just asked me to write for the team:

o Where keeping the description to a single line is the hard work! :)

*Folder Marker*
o Change folder icon or color by one mouse click. Label folders.
<http://foldermarker.com/en/>

*Greenfish* Icon Editor Pro

o Image editor for creating icons, cursors, animations & icon libraries.
<http://www.greenfishsoftware.org/gfie.php>

*Ico FX* (last known freeware version is 1.6.4, available on the net)

o Image editor for icon creation, extraction & editing (incl. transparency)
Canonical site: <https://www.icofx.ro/>
v1.6.4: <http://www.321download.com/LastFreeware/page40.html#IcoFX>

*Icon Explorer*
o Recursive search & extract icons (single or en masse) on your system.
<https://www.mitec.cz/iconex.html>

JSWare *iconextr*
o VBScript by Mayayana, to extract icons from PE files (EXE, DLL, etc.)
<https://www.jsware.net/jsware/scrfiles.php5#iconextr>

Quick *Any2Ico*
o Extracts icon files from any file, folder or resource (plus minor edits).
<https://www.carifred.com/quick_any2ico/>

*Resource Hacker*
o General purpose resource compiler & decompiler (e.g., it extracts icons).
<http://angusj.com/resourcehacker/>

While I am happy to provide this improvement, so that all benefit from
every action, if you have further _purposefully helpful_ suggestions,
please do so (such that all benefit, always, from every action).

[R.Wieser]

Arlen,

> You are well known to never post with purposefully helpful intent...
> o And you yet again, prove my analysis of you correct, with this post.

Your "analysis" boils down to that whomever does not give you what you
expect/demand them to hand over to you is worthless. IOW, only *you*
matter, and noone else does.

A few posts back I gave you the benefit of the doubt (as I'm not really
known for holding a grudge for too long) and indeed tried to help you with
that "hourly speaking clock" of yours, giving some pointers to what to look
at to improve it.

But as I did not present a full solution on a silver platter and in a
ready-to-use fashion /you/ have decided its absolutily worthless /to you/.

You are being given help aplenty - Its *you* who refuses that help and than
complains bitterly about people calling you out on that.

You know that saying about "giving a man a fish" ? You activily *refuse*
to learn to fish, but are rather going knocking on doors each day cajoling
people into handing a you another fish.


As for that "Here's the result of what John C. just asked me to write for
the team:" ? Where is it ? 'Cause you sure as hell did not any of the
programs or scripts you linked to there.

Boy, you really must be getting desperate to think that /anyone/ will fall
for such an obvious attempt of plagiarism. You can even see some of
actual persons names in the links!


Kiddo, grow up. You are /definitily not/ the best thing since sliced
bread. You are most likely just average as lots of people are, and simply
have to learn to deal with that fact. The sooner, the better (for you as
well as us).

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

[R.Wieser]

Arlen,

I just noticed that I could read that "Here's the result of what John C.
just asked me to write for the team:" a bit differently. Alas, it would
still make it a lie.

There is no "team" you are writing for. And yeah, I was gullible enough to
think you where actually talking about a real team of people (as part of a
company or not) in which you would be a valued coworker. I found that
hard to believe, but miracles still do exist.

But no, you just got asked to make your references a bit clearer, and you
try to play that of as some kind of major accomplishment, one I should in
awe of to how much value it added to the usenet community.

Its isn't, I'm not and it doesn't. Its just a very simple list of links
that /anyone/ could have googled for himself.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

[R.Wieser]

Arlen,

Another thing:

Only this week I decided to step over my dislike how "Google Groups" needs
to be visited (with JS enabled), to see a few of those tutorials you always
telling you where producing. Heck, with the number of direct links to them
you posted how could I let that chance pass me by ?

If you ask yourself why I was assuming that you where posting your tutorials
there, not to be seen by us usenetters (as I've claimed in the past) ?
Thats easy: As all that I have seen here was material that I would /at best/
call (very) rough drafts, you must have been posting the finished, polished
tutorials somewhere else. Ergo ...

Alas, when I followed those links you posted all that I saw where partial
direct copies of some usenet threads. No finished tutorial anywhere in
sight. Than the truth dawned on me: You really think that what you are
posting in these Usenet newsgroups may be referred to as Tutorials. And
now I feel like laughing and crying at the same time. A very odd feeling
I must say.


Kid, do yourself a favour and look up a few (online) tutorials. Look at how
they are structured, and how they try to convey their knowledge to the
reader. Even if you if you have decided that I'm a satan incarnate, maybe
you will allow yourself to learn from people that have posted their
tutorials years ago without ever have known you.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

[Mayayana]

"R.Wieser" <add...@not.available> wrote

| Only this week I decided to step over my dislike how "Google Groups" needs
| to be visited (with JS enabled),

A tidbit worth knowing about: When you see
those URLs with #! ("hash-bang") you can just
substitute: ?_escaped_fragment_=

www.site.com/#!page.html

becomes

www.site.com/?_escaped_fragment_=page.html

It may not always work. I'm not sure. But it hasn't
failed me yet.

[R.Wieser]

Mayayana,

> A tidbit worth knowing about: When you see
> those URLs with #! ("hash-bang") you can just
> substitute: ?_escaped_fragment_=

Although I can't remember I've already encountered any of those or know if I
will ever visit GG again (it doesn't seem to offer anything over what Usenet
already does), I've saved your email in my "worth to know" folder.

A question though: What problem does that replacement solve ? I assume,
due to what you quoted, it skips some JS involvement, but I'm not quite sure
about it ...

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

[Mayayana]

"R.Wieser" <add...@not.available> wrote

| A question though: What problem does that replacement solve ? I assume,
| due to what you quoted, it skips some JS involvement, but I'm not quite
sure
| about it ...
|

Long story:

https://developers.google.com/search/docs/ajax-crawling/docs/getting-started

Short story:

#! is used in dynamic AJAX page loads. The other
option provides a way for search engines to crawl an
actual finished page rather than something dynamically
loaded. So it also conveniently cuts out the javascript
requirement. In some cases that may prevent some
customization for a specific visitor, but in my experience
#! has just been used on sites that are constructing the
page dynamically, using a lot of clientside script.

I think the Wix webhosting service does similar. There
isn't actually a webpage there. You go to acme.com to
order a toaster and that webpage doesn't actually exist
if acme is using Wix as a webhost. It's just a pile of script
and JSON, created by a WYSIWYG tool that an Acme clerk
used to set up the site. That script and JSON pull the page
content from Wix databases and put it together dynamically.

But since most sites want search engines to be able
to crawl a real webpage, they provide the other option.
So if you switch the URL you get the page after it's been
assembled.

[R.Wieser]

Mayayana,

> #! is used in dynamic AJAX page loads.

...

> So if you switch the URL you get the page after it's
> been assembled.

Well, thats than certainly a "trick" I'd like to remember. :-)

Thanks.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

[R.Wieser]

Mayayana,

[quote=me]

Although I can't remember I've already encountered any of those or know if I
will ever visit GG again (it doesn't seem to offer anything over what Usenet
already does), I've saved your email in my "worth to know" folder.

[quote]

Whatdayaknow, I just encountered such a link as a redirect after clicking a
google search result, and the replacement worked like a charm. :-)

I'll probably try whip up some GreaseMonkey script (FF v52) to catch the
redirect and automate the replacement.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

[Mayayana]

"R.Wieser" <add...@not.available> wrote

| [quote=me]
| Although I can't remember I've already encountered any of those or know if
I
| will ever visit GG again (it doesn't seem to offer anything over what
Usenet
| already does), I've saved your email in my "worth to know" folder.
| [quote]
|

I'm marking this day as the day you were pleased with my
answer to a question :) I mostly see #! at GG, but once in awhile
at other places. I also would never use GG, but sometimes
it comes up in a search, and it's nice to be able to read the
linked posts without having to allow google to run script.

[R.Wieser]

Mayayana,

> I also would never use GG, but sometimes it comes
> up in a search, and it's nice to be able to read the
> linked posts without having to allow google to run
> script.

My sentiments exactly.

By the way, the google searchpage link and the resulting redirect link look
to be largely the same. Just some basic search-and-replace needed, nothing
fancy.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

[Arlen Holder]

Rudy Wieser always proves my point for me that he has never even once in
his entire life posted with purposefully helpful intent to add value to
_any_ thread topic.

All Rudy _can_ do, is complain that he can't click on a simple link.
o And he complains that he can't even follow a step-by-step tutorial

Notice, Rudy Wieser's so called "input" is always worthless such that I
ignore anything he posts elsewhere (i.e., not in threads that I care come
to an answer).

Unfortunately, Rudy Wieser even infests threads where we're trying to add
value, following me around Usenet like a lost puppy sniffing my ass crack
always constantly complaining that the value added isn't good enough...

And yet... Rudy himself proved me right that he's utterly worthless!
a) *Rudy Wieser can't even _click_ on a link properly, and, worse*
b) *Rudy Wieser cant' even follow a step-by-step cut-and-paste tutorial!*

No wonder he's well characterized as a worthless piece of shit.
o He has _never_ added value to _any_ thread, in his entire life.

As for Mayayana, I'm not sure he & Rudy apparently confuse a simple link
with the concept of "google groups", but I do agree that most people are
"confused" because Google seems to archive "google groups" and "Usenet"
similarly.

I'm sure most people here are familiar with the history of that, where we
used to refer to dejanews links, until Google took it over.

Now we refer to "tinyurl" or "google" or "narkive" links
o But even so, they're simply links to these Usenet threads.

Nothing more; nothing less - they're simply a URL that you click on.
o For example...

r.p.d
o <http://tinyurl.com/rec-photo-digital>
o <http://rec.photo.digital.narkive.com>

a.c.f
o <http://tinyurl.com/alt-comp-freeware
o <http://alt.comp.freeware.narkive.com>

a.c.o.w-10
o <http://tinyurl.com/alt-comp-os-windows-10
o <http:/alt.comp.os.windows-10.narkive.com>
etc.
--
There are only 2 kinds of people on Usenet - those who add value - and
those who never have (i.e., they can't). Rudy Wieser is of the latter type.

[R.Wieser]

Arlen,

> Rudy Wieser always proves my point for me that he has never
> even once in his entire life posted with purposefully helpful intent
> to add value to _any_ thread topic.

Why don't you try to prove that ? Just find /all/ my messages and
describe, for each and every one of them how it was not helpful to the
intended recipient of that post. Good luck. :-)

Kiddo, don't you realise by now that "never", "always", "noone", "everyone"
and other indications like those are rather easy to break ? Just a
*single one* opposing it, and you fall flat on your face.

As for such a "single one" ? You already got one of them in this thread,
and a few others in others of your threads. That you categorically refuse
to take any of my (or any one elses) help is not any of my doing, now is it
?

> Unfortunately, Rudy Wieser even infests threads where we're
> trying to add value,

Who is that "we" you keep using ? You sure ain't no royalty, and all others
are just data suppliers to you, whom you discard as soom as they have done
what you needed them for.

> following me around Usenet like a lost puppy sniffing my ass
> crack

Why would I need to follow you ? You keep crapping in /lots/ of
newsgroups, some of which I happen to frequent.

> always constantly complaining that the value added isn't
> good enough...

Do you think it is ?

From your list posted here at Wed, 17 Jun 2020 01:01:08 -0000 (UTC)

o *Tutorial for modifying icons inside common Windows system DLLs*
Is a lie.

o *Tutorial with details to properly set {batch,shortcut,target} icons*
Lands at a thread named "Re: Shutdown or Restart Windows without bickering"
IN THE ALT.MSDOS.BATCH NEWSGROUP, rambling about all kinds if things.

There is /so much/ crap in there. Like claiming that shortcuts to batch
files are somehow special. All I do is to rightclick-and-hold, move the
mouse to a bit different spot and than release.- after which I'm asked if I
would want to make a shortcut. I do, and thats it. Than again, it might
be different on W10 ... (see what I did there? Sneaky, ain't I ?)

As for your trick #4 thru #6 ? They do not even contain any suggestions to
try, so certainy no tricks either.

o *Tutorial to find all icons hidden inside common Windows executables &
DLLs*
I'm not sure what it does, but there is not more in there than a listing of
DLLs that should contain icons.

As for how to look inside them ? Just create a shortcut from some file,
rightclick -> properties -> click "change icon" and than select any
executable, dll or any of the several other types of files you want to take
a peek in. Whooo! I just made /another/ tutorial ! Two fricking lines
and I'm /again/ king of the world, just like you !

But seriously, besides throwing batch examples in there - which have zero to
do with anything - you already go flat on your face in the first step "001
Create test.bat & test to ensure it works". I do not see any contents
defined for that batchfile, so *I guess* it stays empty. But if that is so,
what is there to test ? Fail.

Than "002 Copy test.bat to test.exe (which can be deleted later, if
desired)" Whut? why ? What goed does that do ? Remember, you have
named that a TUTORIAL, not a "blindly follow what I say list". So, where is
your tutoring ? What is the reader supposed to /learn/ there ?

Need I go on ? I don't think so.

o *Where to find thousands of free open source mobile device related icons*
Not a tutorial. Just a "look here for icons for IOS link"

o *The unintuitive syntax to set a shortcut TARGET line to multiple
commands*
This is a funny one: It links to the question to how to do it, cause you
could not get the "&" to work. Not quite a tutorial, wouldn't you agree ?

I think I can go thru pretty-much all of them in the above way, but I think
I've made my point.

> And yet... Rudy himself proved me right that he's utterly worthless!

Ofcourse.

> a) *Rudy Wieser can't even _click_ on a link properly, and, worse*

:-) You where able to read what my problem with (your) GG links was/is, and
you try to twist it into /that/ ? Come on, you can do better than that.

> b) *Rudy Wieser cant' even follow a step-by-step cut-and-paste tutorial!*

Well, why don't you show me one of those tutorials of yours ? 'Cause
currently I can't say that I have seen any. Not in the list I referred to
in the above, nor anywhere else in the newsgroups I frequent. But, I'm
sure you have posted in other newsgroups too (like where you have that
"team" of yours), so there still is a chance.

> o He has _never_ added value to _any_ thread, in his entire life.

I /think/ I already said something about that ... Yeah, I'm quite certain
about it.

> As for Mayayana, I'm not sure he & Rudy apparently confuse
> a simple link with the concept of "google groups",

Well duh! /Ofcourse/ I mix those up, just like everyone else. Like I also
never have gotten the hang of what the difference between an orange and
aluminium is. They are /so easy/ to mix up, don't you agree? Or dogs and
chesnut trees. Never figured that out either.

Kiddo, you really are a piece of work. Keep fantasizing, 'cause that is
the only thing you seem to be good at. Hey, maybe you could earn good money
by becoming a fantasy book writer ?

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 23:34:35 +0200, R.Wieser wrote:

> Why don't you try to prove that ?

Hi Rudy,

It's trivial to prove you can't ever add value to the thread topic.
o What on-topic _value_ did you add to _this_ icon-editing thread, Rudy?

HINT: None.
--
Only 2 kinds of people are on Usenet: Those adding value & those who can't.

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-06-19 10:17 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Jun 2020 23:34:35 +0200, R.Wieser wrote:
>
>> Why don't you try to prove that ?
>
> Hi Rudy,
>
> It's trivial to prove you can't ever add value to the thread topic.

And yet, you didn't.

[R.Wieser]

Arlen,

> It's trivial to prove you can't ever add value to the thread topic.
> o What on-topic _value_ did you add to _this_ icon-editing thread, Rudy?

Lol. Thats really all you are, isn't it ? Making empty claims you have no
chance of proving, and when you are called out on them trying to restate
them, but than demanding that the other, me, provides all the proof - which
no doubt, you will be the only judge over.

But I'l bite.

In my previous post I've pointed out a number of flaws in your definition of
the word "tutorial" as well as in those "tutorials" themselves.
Complemented by showing you how easy some stuff is (like creating a link and
changing its icon) when you do not overthink it. Some people might recognise
that as "trying to help", even though I've done it with gloves off.

IOW, the answer is right under your nose. And no, that you refuse to see
or accept it as such doesn't matter one way or the other.

And as always nice how you always try to make any answer to be in your own
benefit. :-)

But as long as I'm on a roll, here are a couple of "purposely helpfull
suggestions" :

1) Rename your current thread to "How do you edit an icon", 'cause, as
you've been told, writing into systemfiles is prohibited (at least under
W10). Currently its just clickbait.

2) Keep a tutorial on a single subject. Like "How do you edit an icon".
"Recreating an icon from a screenshot", "extracting an icon from a DLL,
executable or alike" , etc. should be in their own tutorials.
In short: do /not/ mix up multiple subjects. The end result will most
always be a mess, especially for a writer with little actual experience.

3) When targetting several versions of an OS (or multiple of them) be sure
to mention which OS version you tested the tutorial on. Nothing is as
irritating as to grab a tutorial which halfway down uses stuff that simply
isn't available to the person trying to follow it. And who knows, maybe
someone will offer you some test results on other OS versions, allowing you
to add descriptions of any encountered differences.

4) Do not crosspost whatever you have into newsgroups just because part of
their names are the same as what you think you are working at. It would be
(is) a clbuttic mistake (if you have never heard of that word, google it).
(I stil have no idea what this threads has to with "rec.photo.digital").

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

[Frank Slootweg]

R.Wieser <add...@not.available> wrote:
[...]

> 4) Do not crosspost whatever you have into newsgroups just because part of
> their names are the same as what you think you are working at. It would be
> (is) a clbuttic mistake (if you have never heard of that word, google it).
> (I stil have no idea what this threads has to with "rec.photo.digital").

Sigh! There you go again, adding value to the thread! Can you please
stop doing that!

[Arlen Holder]

On 20 Jun 2020 10:40:30 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> Sigh! There you go again, adding value to the thread! Can you please
> stop doing that!

Frank,

Can you, Frank Slootweg, post ADDED value to the thread topic, or not?

This thread is classic, in that it followed a classic Q&A path:
1. The OP ran tests, and asked specific well-documented questions
2. The OP followed through on all viable suggestions by adults
3. The OP posted a SOLUTION that works for everyone

All that took hours of effort, but which added tribal knowledge & value.

Now that the hard work is done, you trolls have infested this thread.
1. People like Rudy do zero work (they can't even click on the links!)
2. They complain about tutorials where they can't even cut and paste!
3. Worthless pieces of shit, like you Frank, begin to infest the thread.

You and I go way back where, unlike Rudy or Alan Baker, at times I've seen
you actually add value on Usenet (e.g., you found pcbanter for us, as I
recall, and you helped a lot about SMTP Android server port 445 issues).

And yet, the main types of people you communicate best with, Frank...
o Are worthless pieces of shit trolls like Rudy Wieser and Alan Baker

Think about that Frank - as you _identify_ with people like Rudy & Alan.
o And yet, the fact remains you still added _zero_ value to this thread.

In your _next_ post, Frank, please see if you "can" add adult on-topic
technical value to this thread topic, Frank.

The real question for you to ponder, Frank, is...
o Are you adult enough to do something as simple as that, Frank?

Given the OP clearly spent hours, and you clearly spent mere seconds...
o Can you, Frank Slootweg, post ADDED value to the thread topic, or not?
--
Trolls come out in force to infest a thread AFTER the hard work is done.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 10:40:44 +0200, R.Wieser wrote:

> Thats really all you are, isn't it ?

Hi Rudy,

The evidence is rampant you're a worthless piece of shit, Rudy Wieser.

You complain about helpful step-by-step tested-&-checked tutorials, right?
o *How many tutorials have you written, Rudy, for the benefit of the team?*

Hint: none
--
Those who can't add value, like Rudy, can only complain about those who do.

[R.Wieser]

Arlen,

> The evidence is rampant you're a worthless piece of shit, Rudy Wieser.

If you say so. So, where is that rampant evidence ? If its that
rampant, there should be some in at least my last few replies to you. So,
quote some. I dare you.

Face it kiddo, you are a blow-hard. Claiming all kinds of things, but zero
follow-thru when rebutted.

> Those who can't add value, like Rudy, ...

:-) I think I've given ample proof of the contrary.

> ... can only complain about those who do.

I think I've disproven that too.

But as so often you simply act as if nothing of either kind has happened.
All the while claiming that other stuff, which you cannot even quote, /has/
happened. Thats quite pathetic.


Kiddo, grow up. You are /not/ any kind of tutorial writer. You have
absolutily /no/ idea how you should write one. And as "step-by-step" list
they do not do much better, if at all. But /still/ you refuse to even
accept a "purposely helpfull suggestion" as to look at how other people
write theirs, let alone accept more direct ones.

The bottom line of that is that you will /never/ improve. Is that what you
want ? To keep turning out junk that most noone can use ? Really ?

Many people here could help you with suggestions to how to write a decent
one. If you allow yourself to be helped. Which I don't think you can.

But I could be wrong ...

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

P.s.
Have you ever had anyone you trust proofread one of your tutorials ? It
would be a good start.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 20:35:14 +0200, R.Wieser wrote:

> So, where is that rampant evidence ?

Hi Rudy,

This isn't for you, since you're incapable of ever adding value.
o To any thread topic

This is for the _adults_ on this newsgroup, and for the permanent record.
o Providing further evidence Rudy Wieser, is a worthless piece of shit.

While it's clear the OP spent a lot of time annotating detailed screenshot
o For example... <https://i.postimg.cc/NFhjn4cd/icon04.jpg>

*How many screenshots did you post to add value to this thread, Rudy?*

Hint: none
--
Rudy Wieser _still_ can't, after more than a half dozen posts, add a
_single_ iota of added on-topic technical value to this thread topic.

[Alan Baker]

On 2020-06-20 3:18 p.m., Arlen Holder wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 20:35:14 +0200, R.Wieser wrote:
>
>> So, where is that rampant evidence ?
>
> Hi Rudy,
>
> This isn't for you, since you're incapable of ever adding value.
> o To any thread topic

That's not an appropriate use for a bullet...

...because you only have a single item to "list".

>
> This is for the _adults_ on this newsgroup, and for the permanent record.
> o Providing further evidence Rudy Wieser, is a worthless piece of shit.

Another incorrect usage of bullet points.

>
> While it's clear the OP spent a lot of time annotating detailed screenshot
> o For example... <https://i.postimg.cc/NFhjn4cd/icon04.jpg>
>
> *How many screenshots did you post to add value to this thread, Rudy?*
>
> Hint: none
>

So the only way to add value to a thread is to post a screenshot?

[R.Wieser]

"Arlen Holder" <arlen...@newmachine.com> wrote in message
news:rcm1uo$575$1...@news.mixmin.net...

> On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 20:35:14 +0200, R.Wieser wrote:
>
>> So, where is that rampant evidence ?
>
> Hi Rudy,
>
> This isn't for you, since you're incapable of ever adding value.
> o To any thread topic

[quote=me]

Face it kiddo, you are a blow-hard. Claiming all kinds of things, but zero
follow-thru when rebutted.

[/quote]

> Rudy Wieser _still_ can't, after more than a half dozen posts,
> add a _single_ iota of added on-topic technical value to this
> thread topic.

[quote=me]

But as so often you simply act as if nothing of either kind has happened.
All the while claiming that other stuff, which you cannot even quote, /has/
happened. Thats quite pathetic.

[/quote]

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

[R.Wieser]

Alan,

>> While it's clear the OP spent a lot of time annotating detailed
>> screenshot
>> o For example... <https://i.postimg.cc/NFhjn4cd/icon04.jpg>
>>
>> *How many screenshots did you post to add value to this thread, Rudy?*
>>
>> Hint: none
>
> So the only way to add value to a thread is to post a screenshot?

No, thats not it. He's just trying to move goalposts from "purposely
helpfull suggestions" to something else, as he lost the argument to the
former.

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/cgi-bin/uy/webpages.cgi?/logicalfallacies/Moving-the-Goalposts


Also, notice that he defines the "playing field" as small as possible (in
his own thread, where he already knows nothing of the kind has happened -
crowing an easy victory), /already denying/ the validity of any proof that
might exist outside of it - A method often referred to as "stacking the
cards".

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

[R.Wieser]

Arlen,

> This isn't for you, since you're incapable of ever adding value.
> o To any thread topic

So than why are you challenging me by name further down ?

[quote=you]

*How many screenshots did you post to add value to this thread, Rudy?*

[quote]

But pray tell, why should I have needed to do that ? I'm not the one who
is writing your tutorial. You are.

> While it's clear the OP spent a lot of time annotating detailed screenshot

Hmmm. Talking about yourself in the third person. Not really a good sign
...

Putting energy in something does not equal creating something of worth.
Any parent of a kid digging holes in a sandbox can tell you that.

But yes, I acknowledge that you have put some effort into creating and
annotating those images. Alas, just as the "tutorials" you use them in,
they do not ammount to much (if anything).

> Rudy Wieser _still_ can't, after more than a half dozen posts,
> add a _single_ iota of added on-topic technical value to this
> thread topic.

I did. You keep choosing to ignore it. Not my really problem.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

[Arlen Holder]

On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 10:11:47 +0200, R.Wieser wrote:

>> Rudy Wieser _still_ can't, after more than a half dozen posts,
>> add a _single_ iota of added on-topic technical value to this
>> thread topic.
>
> I did.
> You keep choosing to ignore it.
> Not my really problem.

Hi Rudy,

Again, this post is to prove, for the permanent record, what you are.
o You infest this thread _after_ all the work is done - and complain.

The evidence is rampant, Rudy Wieser, you're a worthless piece of shit.
o You can't add value to _any_ topic, least of all this topic.

All worthless pieces of shit like you are, Rudy, can do is complain that
a) You can't even click on links everyone else can, and,
b) You can't cut-&-paste the step-by-step instructions anyone else can.

You prove yourself that you're a worthless piece of shit by the answer to
this very simple question, since you "claim" to have added on-topic
technical value, Rudy:

Name the Message-ID of just one post where you added on-topic value.
o And describe, in a sentence, _what_ that technical value added was.

HINT: you can't
--
It's a fact of life there are only two types of people who post to Usenet:
o Those who add value; and those who can't. (Rudy Wieser is of the latter.)

[R.Wieser]

Arlen,

> Again, this post is to prove, for the permanent record, what you are.
> o You infest this thread _after_ all the work is done - and complain.

As far as I'm concerned, and no doubt quite a number of other people here,
you have not finished that "tutorial" of yours. Not by a long shot.

You may stopped doing anything with it, but that doesn't automaticaly mean
its therefore also finished. There /is/ a difference.

And yes, I told you that /and/ pointed quite a few things out. You know,
doing a bit better than just yelling "Arlen, you're a worthless piece of
shit. You can't add value to _any_ topic". But you call what I did a
complaint ? Well, if you say so.

> The evidence is rampant, Rudy Wieser, you're a worthless piece of shit.
> o You can't add value to _any_ topic, least of all this topic.

[quote=me]

But as so often you simply act as if nothing of either kind has happened.
All the while claiming that other stuff, which you cannot even quote, /has/
happened. Thats quite pathetic.

[/quote]

> All worthless pieces of shit like you are, Rudy, can do is complain that
> a) You can't even click on links everyone else can, and,
> b) You can't cut-&-paste the step-by-step instructions anyone else can.

Yada, yada, yada. Already responded to.

[quote=me]

But as so often you simply act as if nothing of either kind has happened.
All the while claiming that other stuff, which you cannot even quote, /has/
happened. Thats quite pathetic.

[/quote]

> Name the Message-ID of just one post where you added on-topic value.
> o And describe, in a sentence, _what_ that technical value added was.

This thread. At Fri, 19 Jun 2020 23:34:35 +0200. Multiple. I even marked
one with "Whooo! I just made /another/ tutorial !". Go fetch.

And no, I'm not going to put any effort into re-iterating stuff I've already
explained, only for you to /again/ ignore it. As they say, I may be a
nice guy, but my mama didn't raise no fools - or something like that.

But there you are, /again/ moving the goalposts, now make it sound that the
only thing that may be called helpfull is adding to /your/ tutorial.
Ofcourse, by that definition, rejecting/refusing to accept anything that
I've already offered you, or others elsewhere. Two flies in one stroke.

Kiddo, you are so very transparent in your antics, its almost as if you are
not quite there anymore. :-)

> It's a fact of life there are only two types of people who post to Usenet:
> o Those who add value; and those who can't. (Rudy Wieser is of the
> latter.)

[quote=me]

Why don't you try to prove that ? Just find /all/ my messages and
describe, for each and every one of them how it was not helpful to the
intended recipient of that post. Good luck. :-)

Kiddo, don't you realise by now that "never", "always", "noone", "everyone"
and other indications like those are rather easy to break ? Just a
*single one* opposing it, and you fall flat on your face.

[/quote]

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

[TPayne]

get a life

[Alan Baker]

Does no one who posts that not see the irony?

[R.Wieser]

Well Arlen,

What a surprise that you are not responding anymore. But, thats really you,
isn't it ?

Making accusations you have no way of proving them, getting told as much and
than simply re-posting them.

Demanding that I respond with proof to this-and-that, but you yourself not
responding anything I said or answered with. Regardless of if it was an
assessment - including reasoning - of the worth of your "tutorials"or to
the purposely helpfull suggestions I made otherwise (than again, you seem to
have a rather quaint, centered on you, notion of what "purposely helpfull
suggestions" is supposed to mean).

Whats the matter ? Afraid that we would trash you if you would acknowledge
that you actually know very little about writing tutorials ? We already
do - with me just being just a tad more persistent and direct about it.
So, what do you have to lose ? Besides, there is a plus side to where you
are: Pretty-much the only way is up. :-)

And as a parting gift:
You've got well-ment advice from quite a number of people here. I suggest
you use it. With or without thanking the giver for it.

Goodbye - for now. We will no doubt meet again.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

[Arlen Holder]

On Tue, 23 Jun 2020 21:21:55 +0200, R.Wieser wrote:

> What a surprise that you are not responding anymore.

Hi Rudy Wieser,

You, yourself, are a perfect proof Rudy, of a worthless piece of shit!

For the permanent Usenet record to preserve... (as always)...
1. I researched the topic before I posted the detailed questions.
2. I wrote prior tutorials on an aspect of the topic needing improvement.
3. I asked a technical question about the topic spending energy on details.

*Since Usenet is a wonderful public helpful adult discussion medium*...
A. People read & understood my detailed questions
B. Adults spent time & energy to provide helpful suggestions
C. I tested all viable suggestions, & I spent energy detailing the solution

*Since Usenet is a playground for worthless pieces of shit like you*, Rudy
a. You complained that you don't like the tutorial
b. You even complained that you can't click on what is a simple link
c. Now you complain that it's clear you're a worthless piece of shit.

It's amazing how you _always_ prove to act, Rudy Wieser:
o You posted about a score of times - adding _negative_ value each time

And then, after posting _nothing_ of value, you complain that people don't
respond to you?

You've never even once in your life added technical value to any thread.
o And then, you complain, that people have stopped responding to you.
--
You, yourself, are a perfect proof Rudy, of a worthless piece of shit!