It's not unusual ...

[Etznab]

... after reviewing multiple instances of copying and plagiarism, for a member of Eckankar to discus the topic.

For example, I did ask about the character Rebazar Tarzs portrayed in the Eckankar writings by Paul Twitchell. And I also specifically asked about "that" Rebazar Tarzs.

In a previous discussion, the following contribution occurred:

"... you, like everyone else in the world, know that Paul Twitchell wrote the books, so, if plagiarism took place, that was done by him alone....besides the fact that if i person SPEAKS the words of another's book out loud to another person, that is not plagiarism, ... ." - Kinpa

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/j_VXc5J8DpM/15d_WrT1WnEJ

I responded:

"The major issue I see is not plagiarism. It is whether Paul Twitchell and Eckankar have repeatedly lied about the Eck Masters and knowingly rewrote history. This is the major issue IMHO. Not everybody condones the unchecked behavior of lying people. ESPECIALLY CLERGY!!! [...]"

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/j_VXc5J8DpM/pwZaJyPueTkJ

The subject I targeted with various questions over the years was whether, or not, Rebazar Tarzs was / is a real living person. This is important to me for historical reasons and to clarify fact from fiction so far as the history is concerned. I simply like to know when something was copied from another source and when something was not. If the Rebazar Tarzs portrayed by Paul Twitchell was a real person then why would he quote New Age writer's books and teachers from various religions and / or spiritual paths, but fail to credit the books and the authors? Why would Rebazar Tarzs tell Paul Twitchell what to write and then plagiarize other authors in the process?

One indisputable fact I recall is how history does know of someone who copied and plagiarized the writings of others, and that person was Paul Twitchell. Is it a stretch to consider that Paul Twitchell may have invented a pseudonym for much of his "Eckankar" writings? There are records of chapters by Paul Twitchell in Orion Magazine before they later appeared in his Eckankar books. And there are instances where other people's names were evidently replaced with the names of the Eck Masters. The name Jesus is one classic example.

"... When the great Buddha was a poor hungry beggar in pursuit of his spiritual objectives, his true nobility stood out far more than it did when he was in the midst of his father's royal splendors. When Jesus, who might have commanded any army -- so great was his mental energy -- walked the dusty streets, tired and hungry in order that he might carry the bread of life to the multitudes, his greatness eclipsed all the splendors of Rome. ... ."

Based on: The Path Of The Masters - THE GREAT WORK OF THE MASTERS, p. 432, 2nd paragraph.

"... When Buddha was a poor, hungry beggar in pursuit of his spiritual objectives, his true nobility stood out far more than it did when he was in the midst of his father's royal splendors. When Rebazar Tarzs might have commanded any army, so great was his mental energy, walked the dusty streets when in his youth, tired and hungry, in order that he might carry the spiritual message to the multitudes, his greatness eclipsed all the splendors of this world. ... ."

Based on: Letters to Gail, Volume 1, by Paul Twitchell (d. 1971), Copyright 1973 ECKANKAR, Original copyright 1973 by Gail A. Twitchell; copyright transferred to ECKANKAR 1982, 5th Printing-1983, p. 117, 2nd paragraph.

http://www.archive.org/stream/ThePathOfTheMasters/ThePathOfTheMasters_djvu.txt

(And that was not the only instance on record where Rebazar Tarzs appeared (or another Eck Master, like Gopal Das) as a pseudo for Jesus.)

Here is a part of my observations on this topic of appropriating materials from other writers and other teachings. If the writings copied and / or plagiarized had been credited to the source(s) from whence they came then Paul Twitchell and Eckankar would not be able to "possess" them and not be able to change them in the ways they did. (This is partly how "all religions" allegedly take and copy from earlier sources and "develop" the teachings further. They remove what they want and replace it with what they want; also creating pseudo history and religion in the process.)

Suppose that people could have located sources for Paul Twitchell's writings right after he published them and could see the sources existed anterior to Rebazar Tarzs and Paul Twitchell's Eckankar. With a computer and access to the Internet sources can now be explored much easier than in the past. Naturally, more questions can exist today than in the past.

Who is going to answer the questions that come up? In the end, there is one person who's answer(s) appear to trump anybody else. That person is the leader of Eckankar. Someone to whom answers by anybody else appear to be secondary when Harold Klemp is the "corporation sole", what have you. Does it mean the leader of Eckankar is infallible?

I think this (fallibility vs. infallibility) is also a part of the discussion when it comes to Rebazar Tarzs and who / what is he exactly. For example, Was Paul Twitchell infallible when he plagiarized the writings of others and subsequently attributed them to the Eck Masters like Rebazar Tarzs? Was Darwin Gross infallible when his administration claimed no plagiarism in The Far Country book?

For many years I was not aware about the extent of copying and plagiarism, etc. It wasn't until recent years when even people here at a.r.e. were aware of the greater extent (Did I not recently illustrate previously unpublished copying and plagiarism examples?) When Harold Klemp wrote about Rebazar Tarzs in the introduction for The Key to Eckankar book, Did he know about the following?

"Spiritual consciousness is attained through the activity of truth in consciousness. Dwelling on scriptural quotations or statements of truth helps to spiritualize thought. The more truth that we read and hear, the more active is truth in our consciousness. Thus we learn to abide in the Word. This is the first step on the Way."

Based on: Practicing The Presence - Goldsmith

"Spiritual consciousness is attained through the activity of truth in consciousness. Dwelling on scriptural quotations or statements of truth helps to spiritualize thought. The more truth we read and hear, the more truth is active in our consciousness. We learn to abide in the world by putting truth into ourselves. This is the first step on the way to God."

Based on: The Key to Eckankar - Twitchell

[Note: Goldsmith says: "Thus we learn to abide in the Word." where Eckankar says: "We learn to abide in the world ... ." Typo???]

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/nD2iq5AOBzc/4T8Ss0btEFEJ

In the past year, or two, I looked at The Key To Eckankar book and found about three quarters of the book looked to be appropriated from other sources. Other sources besides Rebazar Tarzs! Some include:

Old Ugly Face, Talbot Mundy (1940)
The Power of Awareness, Neville Goddard (1952)
Practicing the Presence, Joel S. Goldsmith (1958)
The Wisdom of Buddhism, Christmas Humphreys (1960)

Here I refer to not just a few sentences, but several paragraphs. And so a natural question (IMO) that comes up is: How do those authors and those books equal Rebazar Tarzs?

(Btw, Have I asked many of the questions other people naturally had, but were too afraid to ask?)

There is, in my estimation, a pattern of appropriated materials credited to the Eckankar masters and with no mention of the appropriated texts, or authors. So how does this square with:

"Some people wonder if Rebazar Tarzs really exists. They ask if Paul just borrowed a name from the Far East and made him up. Yet people report having met the ECK Masters even before they ever heard of Eckankar. The ECK Masters are real."

[Based on: Article (Looking at the Past for Spiritual Lessons) by Harold Klemp]

http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/man2.html

"... people report having met the ECK Masters even before they ever heard of Eckankar."

(?)

People also report finding a growing list of appropriated, copied, plagiarized (etc.) materials credited to Eck Masters. And after I showed numerous examples and illustrated them here I saw:

"... you, like everyone else in the world, know that Paul Twitchell wrote the books, so, if plagiarism took place, that was done by him alone....besides the fact that if i person SPEAKS the words of another's book out loud to another person, that is not plagiarism, ... ." - Kinpa

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/j_VXc5J8DpM/15d_WrT1WnEJ

Well ... if someone reads the words of a book out loud to me and I then write those words down in a book (that I sell to others), claiming the words came from other sources, then yes I do believe that would amount to plagiarism.

And after I showed numerous examples and illustrated them here, I also saw:

"... why is it alright for other people to take from previous religions, and even a number of previous religions, change the interpretations of those teachings, rename it, and continue? But Sri Paul Twitchell cannot? [... .]"

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/aCHHLQ5xpE4/vJTLaDhuAwAJ

On that same thread I included:

... If Paul Twitchell put things into his books that were copied from other books then it doesn't automatically make all the things true. Neither does making the things appear as having come from God or a God-man. It doesn't matter in what books, or by what claimed source when the thing is about an actual event in history that can be checked.

There are books that claim the Jewish God told some people to go and murder their neighbors and take the land. However, there is no proof that a God said this. Not even a Jehovah ... just because someone wrote it in a book.

Paul Twitchell and Eckankar materials have not only spoken about myths, legends and world history, but also about other religions and people. I just feel at this point it's appropriate to clarify whether Paul Twitchell was really taking down the words of ancient masters like he said, or if he was taking from books and making it look like the things came from Eckankar masters.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/aCHHLQ5xpE4/yoi2vKqqBAAJ

Mark that last sentence. It is close to being the whole point.

All that said, I can understand reasons why people might want to have things both ways. The Eck masters have, to a large extent, become like ideals. Matter of fact, Paul Twitchell wrote about the "need of an ideal" very early on in his writings. Probably even before he first published the word "Eckankar" in 1963. The beginning chapters of Letters to Gail, Vol. One, had much to say about the topic of ideals.

I wonder. Where did Paul Twitchell get his information about ideals from? And is it ironic that Harold Klemp spoke about stages related to death of an ideal?

Quoting Doug Marman:

"[....] If Harold was trying to convince ECKists, as David suggests, that Paul's words never came from the writings of others, then why would Harold have talked about the five stages following the death of an ideal? Why would he have spoken about the need to accept that Paul was not a god? Why would he have called Paul a master compiler? Why would Harold say that he would have to do something about the sources of Paul's writings someday? [...] While David accuses Harold of recoiling from telling the truth, in fact I saw the exact opposite. Harold forthrightly researched and shared the information he found as soon as he became aware of it. Harold explained it in his own way, from his own viewpoint, and perhaps it was not as critical as David would like, yet Harold continued on with a series of talks and articles over the next few years. So, once again, the idea of a cover-up disappears like sand through our fingers after we see the facts. [... .]"

[Based on: Doug Marman: Dialogue in the Age of Criticism, Chap. 10]

Harold wrote, in part:

"[...] The first feeling that comes at the death of an ideal is denial: Tell me it ain't so. The second stage is anger. In the third stage, a person wants to bargain: Maybe we can mediate this--isn't there a way it can be worked out? Next comes depression, and finally, acceptance. [... .]"

http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html

Doug included: "Harold forthrightly researched and shared the information he found as soon as he became aware of it." Doug mentioned how Harold "explained it in his own way, from his own viewpoint", etc.

Harold Klemp was writing as the leader of Eckankar. I would submit that other people are NOT writing "as the leader of Eckankar" and it should not be a big deal if other people fail to act like mindless puppets animated only by someone else. IMHO, that is not what freedom of religion is. Not when "freedom" also includes freedom to pursue the truth and where it leads; in spite of myth, in spite of pseudo man-made history and religion.

Imo it is not unusual at all to discuss and explore why so many books and writings appear similar and identical to what Rebazar Tarzs reportedly said. The many illustrated examples are not heresy allegations like people reporting to have met ECK Masters even before they ever heard of Eckankar. No. The many illustrated examples are indisputable as to what the texts have shown. And as multiple copies of the books were printed that makes literally hundreds and thousands of examples available to more than a handful of people.

I know that a discussion about Rebazar Tarzs is coming. I've known this for about ten years now. And not only a discussion filled with censorship, spin, apologies, denial, anger and hatred; a.r.e. has seen all of the former over the past years. Rather, I sense a discussion coming where a person will have no other choice but to do something about it some day.

[Etznab]

With regard to the following:

"Why would Harold say that he would have to do something about the sources of Paul's writings someday?"

There appear to be at least three different versions of what Harold
Klemp said concerning a particular sentence in excerpts I recently
quoted. For the three different versions I'm talking about, refer to
the following sentences:

(1) " 'To show where a lot of the ECK writings on earth came from, [... .]" -

Based on Doug Marman's version in his 2000 online book.

http://www.littleknownpubs.com/Dialog_Ch_Ten.htm

(2) "[...] For ... from where a lot of the writings ... Eck writings on Earth came from [... .]"

- Version based on 1984 (April) Eckankar International Youth Conference, audiotape 4312, copyright 1984, side two (near the end).

(3) "[...] For a lot of the ECK writings to be done on earth, [... .]"

- Based on: Eckankar transcript version in Harold's book and on the
official Eckankar website.

http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/8_wBxuhcsJg/ehjUgrTGwzQJ

Greater context can be viewed after locating the three transcripts. Here is Doug evidently quoting Harold Klemp:

"I'm doing all this research in a soundproof booth so it doesn't disturb the other people who are doing research. As I look over at a table, I see Paul - busy as usual, researching and writing. He looks at me and says, kind of gruffly, "What's that?"

" 'Source manuscripts, ' I say.

" 'For what? ' he asks.

" 'To show where a lot of the ECK writings on earth came from, ' I reply.

" 'Oh, ' he says. 'Well, we'll have to do something about that someday. '

"Then he picks up his notebook and leaves, heading out into the stacks.

"Yeah, I thought to myself, and I know who is going to have to do something about that someday! "

This part is fairly straightforward, imo.

'To show where a lot of the ECK writings on earth came from,'

Not much different in meaning from the 1984 audiotape

"For ... from where a lot of the writings ... Eck writings on Earth came from [... .]"

However, How did the following result?

"[...] For a lot of the ECK writings to be done on earth, [... .]"

Doug (and evidently Harold, too) had referred to the "sources" of Paul's writings.

Example One:

"Why would Harold say that he would have to do something about the sources of Paul's writings someday?"

Example Two:

" 'To show where a lot of the ECK writings on earth came from, ' I reply.

Is it just me? Or does it look like something was changed?

Example Three:

"[...] For a lot of the ECK writings to be done on earth, [... .]"

Keyword search "done on earth"

http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html

[Henosis Sage]

---

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6azSHCHwPc

*twinkle*

check list of "masters"

http://www.ascendedmastersspeak.com/AMS.htm

http://www.ascendedmastersspeak.com/intent.htm

http://www.ascendedmastersspeak.com/AL.htm

and they even have Sheldan Nidle of the Galactic Federation bs stories?????
My god that man is an absolute psycho lying nutcase aka schizophrenic / fraud.
I emailed him back in the early 2000s so I could speak direct to the source of
the BS he as putting out. That "communication" was all I needed to "read him"
and get the outer confirmation of what his problem was and WHY he was doing it.
he's on this page http://www.ascendedmastersspeak.com/articles.htm

Drunvalo Melchizedek isn't too bad ... at least he isn't psychotic/crazy (imho)
Meditation indeed is helpful for most people. It's the bs myths that screw up
people's heads along the way.

Cheers

[Etznab]

I think they forgot a couple.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzk9CJR4vfM

[Etznab]

In a couple of those quotes I saw the words "writings on earth came from". And isn't this precisely the topic discussed for eons (just kidding) already at a.r.e.? I mean, a topic many people wanted to know the truth about. Essentially, Where did the writings on earth come from?

This, in part, is what appears on the official Eckankar website (no place on this page appear the words "writings on earth came from"). Quoting ...

[...]

I'm doing all this research in a soundproof booth so it doesn't disturb the other people who are doing research. As I look over at a table, I see Paul--busy as usual, researching and writing. He looks at me and says, kind of gruffly, "What's that?"

"Source manuscripts," I say.

"For what?" he asks.

"For a lot of the ECK writings to be done on earth," I reply.

"Oh," he says. "Well, we'll have to do something about that someday." Then he picks up his notebook and leaves, heading out into the stacks.

Yeah, I thought to myself, and I know who is going to have to do something about that someday!

ECKANKAR International Youth Conference,
Las Vegas, Nevada, Saturday, April 21, 1984

Excerpted from The Secret Teachings, Mahanta Transcripts, Book 3, copyright (c) 1989 ECKANKAR. All rights reserved.

Eckankar, Religion of the Light and Sound of God
Copyright (c) 2016 ECKANKAR. All rights reserved. ECKANKAR Privacy Policy
Last modified October 6, 2014 ... end quote.

*********

IMO, it looks like words moving attention away from:

"where a lot of the Eck writings on earth came from"

to

"a lot of the ECK writings to be done on earth".

This is just my opinion, but it seems the former could possibly apply to the writings of Paul Twitchell (iow, source manuscripts about where a lot of the Eck writings on earth came from). Versus the latter, that could possibly apply to the writings of Harold Klemp (iow, source manuscripts for a lot of the Eck writings to be done on earth).

I think there is, perhaps, an important difference between writings that had already come vs. writings to be done. Why did Harold originally speak about source manuscripts ...

"For ... from where a lot of the writings ... Eck writings on Earth came from [... .]"

and why did Paul Twitchell and Harold Klemp both remark about having to do something about that someday?

IMO it makes more sense (in this particular context) to (have to) do something about what already has been done vs. having to do something about what is yet to be done. One has to hear the tone of Harold's voice and the reaction of the audience to really get a feel for the moment and what was actually said. And I am trying to say that it seems to me the talk was about "source manuscripts" for Paul Twitchell's writings, or the Eck writings that had been done on Earth.

Look at some of the blue bold text titles on the page. Example:

The Writing of Paul Twitchell
Beginnings of Eckankar
Early Books and Discourses
Master Compiler
Death of an Ideal
Finding Truth

Btw, The Finding Truth section includes:

"[...] You're going to hear so many different versions of what is truth and what is not that finally you can't believe anyone. This is good, because it puts the responsibility back upon you to learn how to get the answer for yourself. Otherwise, you're just going to have to take someone else's word for it -- and this is not a position you want to be in as a person who's looking for spiritual freedom. [... .]"

http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/writings.html

It seems that Harold was partly speaking about people getting the answer for themselves. There seemed to be a lot of that kind of thing back then.

"Somebody asked Paul why he didn't simply look into the ECK-Vidya whenever he needed to know something. He said he didn't want to take all the surprise and adventure out of life. I feel the same way. It's more fun to find out yourself rather than be told. This is why the ECK initiates go out and find material about Sudar Singh themselves."

http://www.eckankar.org/Masters/Peddar/man2.html

More fun to find out for one's self? Umm ... yeeaaahh ... I've been finding the words of Rebazar Tarzs in books by other people and created and written as the words of OTHER PEOPLE! Like real LIVING people!

I know that I am having fun. Question is, Are WE (all of us) having fun yet with "Finding Truth"?

Has Kinpa found it fun to learn I had a current Eckankar membership card at the same time he was telling me I didn't?

Don't take my word for it, Kinpa. Go have fun and find out for yourself! Then come back here and kindly apologize for being a cyber bully liar!

[Henosis Sage]

On Monday, 22 February 2016 14:47:34 UTC+11, Etznab wrote:

--- ---


Nice summary Etznab.

Here is a visual depiction of The Key to Eckankar ... it doesn't show ALL
the examples of copying that are now known either (as yet, but it will one day)
Just look for the YELLOW highlights
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPTDduWlQzdXpGQ2M/view?usp=sharing

The key point about this is that Twitchell said it was a "dialogue" between him
and Rebazar Tarzs in Seattle. Klemp STATED in his 1985 updated revised edition:

"Introduction
First printed in 1968 the KTE was one of the EARLY books that
introduced people to that wonderful Tibetan ECK Master, Rebazar Tarzs.
His CONVERSATION with Paul is a HISTORICAL DOCUMENT that reflects Paul
Twitchell's state of consciousness at that time."
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPOXRQb0tTeXBzOEk/view?usp=sharing


This was AFTER the 1984 talk referenced by Doug Marman. Both Marman and Klemp
look ridiculous here, because they are both lying through their teeth.

They have both spent decades manipulating others with intent.

IF as Doug Marman maintains in his PUBLISHED PRINTED BOOK and online
commentaries that: "Harold forthrightly researched and shared the information

he found as soon as he became aware of it."

Then WTF is Harold doing in 1985 calling the writings of these people a
CONVERSATION WITH REBAZAR TARZS .... and why is he still selling TKTE booklet
to ALL Eckists and potential new members of ECKANKAR?

see Part 3 TKTE – Major Sources by Author

Neville Goddard (NTM)

Talbot Mundy (Novelist/Occult)

L. Ron Hubbard (NTM/Occult)

Joel S. Goldsmith (NTM)

WT Stace (Philosophy of Mysticism)

Seng Ts’an (Buddhist)

Christmas Humphreys (Buddhist)

EA Burtt' (Buddhist)


I don't know exactly why, but what I do know for certain is that Klemp is a
proven liar a thousand times over. And so is Doug Marman.

--- --- ---

RE this by the other proven Liar Matt Sharpe aka Kinpa

"... why is it alright for other people to take from previous religions, and
even a number of previous religions, change the interpretations of those
teachings, rename it, and continue? But Sri Paul Twitchell cannot? [... .]"

SIMPLE ... because Twitchell asserted repeatedly that ECKANKAR was better than
every other religion and spiritual path on this Earth, that's why.

An so if the ONLY EXCUSE that Kinpa can come up with is that EVERYONE ELSE DID
IT ... then that makes Eckankar NO BETTER than all the rest of them.

It in fact PROVES BEYOND DOUBT that Twitchell was in fact FULL OF SHIT on that
point of being the "supreme source" for all other religions and teachings on
Earth.

IT proves beyond doubt that Twitchell in fact DID NOT obtain the "teachings of
Eckankar" from spiritual travelers aka God eaters aka Vairagi ECK masters at
all. The hard evidence PROVES that Twitchell did it in REVERSE, that he
obtained the "high teachings of ECK" from all these other Religions and teachings
and above average authors of the PAST, and not in Twitchell's present.

The clear evidence that shows EVERY book and discourse by Twitchell is ~90%
copied from other existing works which proves that Twitchell himself was LYING
about himself, about Rebazar Tarzs and about Eckankar and what it was/is.

The evidence of such plagiarism and copyright infringement proves beyond doubt
that the several reports of Gail Twitchell having said "HE MADE IT ALL UP" are
in fact true.

On top of this are multiple other clear evidences that it is all made up. Be it
from Twitchell's own mouth, or Darwin Gross and Klemp's words and behaviour
over the years. At least for those that are actually spiritually awake and not
asleep.

Millions of people have had lucid dream and "experiences" with cartoon characters
such as Mickey Mouse or Goofy. Such reports do not then make nor PROVE to anyone,
especially those having them, that those cartoon characters are real living beings,
or lived o earth in the past, nor spiritual masters of the Vairagi Order.

--- ---


Then there is the outer evidences that Twitchell and Eckankar were indeed being
sued and taken to task for Twitchell's copying all the way back to when he was
still alive.

However what has been repeatedly said about this since a.r.e. was created and
before from Eckankar sources is that such a thing had NEVER HAPPENED. So the
mythology became well IF no one ever LEGALLY claimed plagiarism or copyright
infringement then it never happened, and any and all accusations of that
(say by David Lane etc) are false and have no basis to them.

That is 100% bs sophistry by manipulators and fools. The leader of that pack
being Doug Marman and of course Harold Klemp who has refused to tell Eckists
since 1983 the truth of it that he definitely knows himself.

That is what is known in normal circles as an intentional cover up. It is a
decades long conspiracy to take fraudulent advantage over others though "false
pretenses". That means saying X is true when one knows for certain that X is
totally false.... and then SELLING THEM SOMETHING FOR MONEY as a direct result
of that fraudulent speech / advertising.

If Eckankar was not a defined religion then it would have been put out of
business in the 1970s. The leadership of Eckankar would have been charged with
a criminal conspiracy to defraud others for money; especially the $millions
in cash and property given to Twitchell, Gross, Klemp and Eckankar as
"donations" over and above book sales and member fees.

One can go see a LEGAL document that proves beyond and doubt that Eckankar
had been sued and/or had legal claims made against it for Copyright
Infringement before July 1982.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPVENGUTR1LUpWcTA/view?usp=sharing

Gross knew it, Gail Twitchell knew it, the Eckankar lawyers knew it, and Klemp
knows it too. Yet still he said what he said about Twitchell and Rebazar Tarzs
in his 1985 intro to TKTE booklet anyway.

Klemp has kept the MYTHS and the LIES alive for the last 35 years since he
became the LEM of the day .... given the 9th outer Initiation by Darwin Gross
himself, and he has never received another "initiation" because NONE EXIST.
That too is a fraud by Klemp and Eckankar .. it's all made up.

These are the kinds of things that arise once one truly understands the
implication of the fact that ~90% of all Twitchell's Eckankar writings are
not what they say they are and have been copied verbatim from writers who
went before Twitchell.

---


Here is another anecdotal piece of evidence that shows Twitchell was under
pressure for his massive copying of RS literature before he died. I personally
know Dr Jason Chandler and have met him, and know what others say about him.
He does NOT make up stories that are not true - he is a very credible witness:

alt.religion.eckankar ›
Interesting hot gossip re: Paul and Sant Mat

Marek Gold - Kyogle NSW - (actually this was posted from his home by Michael
Wallace, then an Eckist, and well known in these parts)

03/01/2002

Well... tonight I had a very interesting discussion.
It appears that a local auyervedic Doctor, Jason Chandler, had met Paul on
several occasion... all through happenstance.

He is a Tibetan who was living in India, and travelled a great deal. He had
met Paul on a long haul flight, and later Paul had taken him to a group
initiation he performed in LA (So it is confirmed that Paul did do Group
Initiations in the early stages)

This fellow is not a member of Eckankar, even though he teaches a lot about
the Light and Sound. What is really interesting is that the last time he met
Paul was at Delhi Airport sometime in 1970-71... Paul explained that he was
going to speak to some people at a local Satsang (Not specific) where he was
discussing his use of some of their material in his published works.

Obviously, this is simply a conversation, and not actual evidence, but to
his recollection Paul had no issue at all with the plagiarism question, and
expressed to the fellow that the works he used were in the spiritual domain,
in his opinion, and thus open for reinterpretation and use... However, he
was meeting with the local head of a Spiritual Group to discuss this.

Apparently letters that were speaking of legal action were actioned by this
group (I can only presume Sant Mat) and he was going there specifically to
discuss this issue.

This is the first I have ever heard of anything like this, and the man had
absolutely no connection with Eckankar. The conversation came about because
one of his students (A friend of mine) was studying with him, and started
talking about his constant references to Light and Sound. He brought up the
meetings with Paul Twitchell in this dialogue.

Fascinating, I thought... If this is true, then it seems Paul dealt directly
with the issue when it was raised.

Love

Michael [Wallace]
Australia

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/VD6jyeOBYWY/UJcYRkyucZMJ

---



One could read into that that Twitchell was either going to see people at RS
Satsang in Beas, and/or Ruhani Satsang in Delhi (ie Kirpal Singh's ashram)

Please NOTE:
"Apparently letters that were speaking of LEGAL ACTION were actioned by this
GROUP (I can only presume Sant Mat) and he was going there specifically to
discuss this issue."

The timing? 1970/71?

Well maybe Twitchell was never poisoned in Spain at all. Maybe an aggrieved
Satsangi took it upon himself or herself to poison the manipulative thief in
BEAS INDIA instead???

FYI by 1970 the following books by Twitchell had been published - ALL contain
examples of plagiarisms from Radhasoami books then available to the public for
years.

1969 Twitchell, Paul. Eckankar: the Key to Secret Worlds,
(First use of 'the Mahanta, the living Eck Master' early 1969)
Illuminated Way Press, San Diego, 1969. (First Published by Lancer Books)

1969 The ECK Satsang Discourses; DISCOURSES

1969 Twitchell, Paul. The Flute of God.*
(Redacted edited Orion magazine series Mar 1966 to Mar 1968)
Menlo Park, Ca: Illuminated Way Publishing, 1969

1970-04-10 The Drums of Eck.
Las Vegas, Illuminated Way Press. 223 p. (c) Paul Twitchell; 10Apr70; A272489.

1970-07-13 Stranger by the River.*
Las Vegas, Illuminated Way Press. 176 p. (c) Paul Twitchell; 13Jul70; A272483.

1970-10-21 The Far Country.*
Las Vegas, Illuminated Way Press. 247 p. (c) Paul Twitchell; 210ct70; A272485

1970-10-29 Dialogues with the Master.*
Las Vegas, Illuminated Way Press. 240 p. (c) Paul Twitchell; 290ct70; A272488.

1970 The Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad. Book 1.*
Las Vegas, Illuminated Way Press. 192 p. (c) Paul Twitchell; I40vt71; A272487.


Radha Soami Beas, Agra the Parent Faith and others like Kirpal's group had
a mountain of justifiable reasons to take legal action against Eckankar.

The known evidence and plain common sense and logic suggests that they and
many other Copyright holders and publishers did precisely that over the years.

The entrenched cover up ever since suggest they did. Patti Simpsons own words
suggest they did. And is why in 1983 she went ape-shit over Darwin Gross' new
publication of Letter's to Gail Vol III - and why Klemp pulped it and why it
was that Patti Simpson and Gail Twitchell so desperately wanted Darwin Gross
gone from Eckankar - lest the "great man" Paul Twitchell's image and reputation
as a "master" was destroyed publicly via the courts.

--- ---


But this business goes far beyond simply a matter of copying other people's
writings and a cover up.

Anyone who still persists with the false notion that "everyone does it" and
"plagiarism only proves plagiarism" is an abject gullible fool of the highest
order.

Anyone who persists wiht the Marman's SPIN that Klemp was telling Eckists
the truth in his BS stories about Twitchell and Astral libraries and the like
is equally so a gullible fool.

The entire foundation of Eckankar's validity as a bona-fide Religion rests
solely upon Paul Twitchell's writings and the lies that he told others.

But far worse than that, is the serious harm done to many Eckists over these
last 50 years. That harm extends from being lied to and manipulated, to being
abused by those in authority for simply asking question, and the more serious
matters that have led to families being destroyed, lives being destroyed,
donations of $ millions made under false pretenses, to people going insane and
committing suicide as a result of the LIES and the endless cover ups that has
led to severe abuse and mental torment visited upon innocent manipulated
people across the world.

Nothing excuse that. No claim by individuals preaching how wonderful Eckankar
is or the good things they have learned from it, excuses that.

NOTHING

.

[Etznab]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B761DvpHuBw

[Henosis Sage]

On Monday, 22 February 2016 15:32:37 UTC+11, Etznab wrote:
> On Sunday, February 21, 2016 at 10:25:50 PM UTC-6, Henosis Sage wrote:
> > On Monday, 22 February 2016 14:47:34 UTC+11, Etznab wrote:

SNIPPED

>
> I think they forgot a couple.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzk9CJR4vfM

Have you seen the Professional Gumby Therapy on the Kinpa "my site" LFN?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATmWeEvW-Ec

A doco was done on Mr Kinpa who provides a vital psycho-service to his
community, did you know?

The work of a village idiot is more difficult than it looks. A short
documentary by lifelong idiot Arthur Figgis (aka KINPA) explains what
role the village idiot plays within the online community at the LFN.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhDJxEPRDek

and the Gumbies' Chant in chorus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoGl-ut8970

(shrug)

[Henosis Sage]

-----

RE:

One can go see a LEGAL document that proves beyond and doubt that Eckankar
had been sued and/or had legal claims made against it for Copyright
Infringement before July 1982.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-M0yAR0UPhPVENGUTR1LUpWcTA/view?usp=sharing

OK for those still blinded by Bias and a lack of Intelligence or Dyslexia
I will spell out what that Legal Contact says and what it means in the REAL
world of earthly reality and the Law.

I draw your attention to Clauses 6 & 7 - read them closely.

".. in connection with claims filed..."

That my dear friends is what is known as "past tense"

Now it just so happens that unlike Doug Marman who had experience with Patent
Law because of his "invention" regarding the electronic of security cameras,
I happen to have some extensive personal experience with "contract law".

One was worth over $20 million and another the drafting of the documentation
for a contract worth ~$60 million back in the 1980s. I also had senior
management responsibility for up to 1000 staff under my control all of whom
had to abide by the Contracts made between the company I represewnted and the
Government. The fine print matters folks.

One thing that I know about Contract Law is that one cannot insert in them
anything that is not true and correct. So if you had a contract with someone
and it referenced within it a "box of widgets at xyz address", but that that
box of widgets never actually existed and that it had absolutely no relevance
to the rest of the Contract clauses, then that places at risk the entire
Contract no matter what else it says.

So with this Contract Agreement between Gail and Eckankar, and given that it
is a fact that Contract was honoured and Gail was indeed paid the $500,000
then one can safely say that the clauses that stated "in connection with claims
filed" is a bona fide FACTUAL TRUTH ... in a Legally Binding Document that is
signed by both parties and implemented as agreed.

But of course, anyone who had bothered to go READ the TEHA files, they would
already KNOW this. Because it is all spelled out there with great clarity and
has been for years now.

Here go find it yourself:
PAUL TWITCHELL ECKANKAR HISTORY ARCHIVE
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B-M0yAR0UPhPalFWRzl6YmlmM00

You may be surprised what else you could find there. You'd be even more
surprised, nay shocked, to see what has not yet been put there.


One day I can foresee the Attorney General and the US Justice Dept, and IRS
finding such matters more than a little interesting and surprising too.

I must be psychic or something. That's because I am. (shrug)

.

[Henosis Sage]

---

I have no respect, nor do people or a "community" deserve any when they
are too lazy to go check the facts and instead default to childish garbage
like this:

Holmes: "Be leery of silence. It doesn't mean you won the argument. Often,
people are just busy reloading their guns." - Shannon L. Alder1 week 6 days ago

JR: "Here's one rule-of-thumb: No matter how bad a story sounds - particularly
if it sounds bad - recognize the pattern of defamation." - Marvin Olasky

Holbrook PSI: "The main difference between a cat and a lie is that a cat only
has nine lives." Mark Twain

SRI SHABDA - Pr...: " Only fools believe that silence means acquiescence. "
- Matt Sharpe

Odd: "There are times when silence has the loudest voice.' - Leroy Brownlow

Star: "A lie can stride seven times around the world while the truth is still
putting on its boots." - C.H. Spurgeon

DARAEL HIGHBORN...: "The liar's punishment is, not in the least that he is not
believed, but that he cannot believe anyone else." -- George Bernard Shaw

Dalia Wren: "If you stand straight, do not fear a crooked shadow." - Proverb

Further: Today many threats are psychological rather than physical, but the
same primitive impulse to destroy the offender often takes hold. - See more at:
http://www.lightforcenetwork.com/pallas-athena-manager/origins-hatred

and by the clown Holmes on Mon, 2016-02-08 The devil howls ...

Anyone with a personal vendetta, a high level of jealousy, a psychological need
to disagree and/or is being emotionally undermined by a bad experience can
become a defamer. And what are all of these things based in kiddies? Perhaps
some displaced needs of Ego aka Easing God Out, Erasing Good Output, Evacuating
Grimm's Outhouse, etc, etc. In the wide world of media and cyber space,
statements will be made and continue to be publicized and printed even though
the perpetrator knows them to be false because by golly, that person needs to
be ruined, eradicated and wiped clean off the earth. After all Pride and its
offspring defamation, libel and slander are some of the devil's favorite sins.
- See more at: http://www.lightforcenetwork.com/holmes/and-devil-howls

They have all been blinded by Kinpa's deceit and his "oh poor me" victim game
on the LFN .... everything they say and think is being shunted in the wrong
direction.

Just another reason why people should steer clear of that site. The degree of
incompetence and delusion going on there is remarkable and pathetic.

(shrug)

.

[Etznab]

On Sunday, February 21, 2016 at 10:20:58 PM UTC-6, Etznab wrote:

[Etznab]

[Kinpa]

Then why on earth would you keep displaying these behaviors in public? Foolish boy!

[Kinpa]

Still trying to use the words of other people to support your claims? That is both sad and futile...why not try speaking from your own mind? Lacking confidence in your ability to speak well? You insist that plagiarism is SO important, and then you continually do it yourself! DOUBLE STANDARD~! Try saying your own words for a change! Unless you are too scared to...

[Etznab]

Double standard? How about the number of words plagiarized by Paul Twitchell? Quite a few as I have shown.

Perhaps Kinpa needs to see more plagiarisms to convince him?

Paul Twitchell knew about how many people use the words of others. And now we know that he himself was no exception.

Paul writes:

"[...] I do not know many people who can clearly state what they believe without stating what somebody else tells them. In other words, ninety percent of all people borrow their thinking from another source!"

The quote appears on page 15 of L.T.G. Vol. 1 in the 2nd-last paragraph of letter dated 12/09/62 (the 2nd letter). Paul Twitchell had just illustrated so many axioms on pages 13-14: (all words are in italics).

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/drU8Epiba2A/nKZ3tRLUxFkJ

And why did Paul Twitchell copy from a host of other authors?

The first president of Eckankar (about Paul Twitchell) wrote:

"... I confronted him [Paul Twitchell] with what he had done and his answer was 'since the author of the book said it better than I could I copied it.' [... .]"

Did you get that, Kinpa? "... SINCE THE AUTHOR OF THE BOOK SAID IT ... ." THE AUTHOR OF THE BOOK which was NOT Rebazar Tarzs as people were led to believe.

It was a poor, poor attempt on your part, Kinpa, to try and steer attention away from the subject. You wrote:

"Still trying to use the words of other people to support your claims? That is both sad and futile...why not try speaking from your own mind? [... .]"

Obviously you didn't read the whole thread, including the first post. And the part I recently commented about included the words of Harold Klemp, the leader of Eckankar. For example:

And Doug Marman, who wrote:

"Why would Harold say that he would have to do something about the sources of Paul's writings someday?"

Did you see that, Kinpa? THE SOURCES OF PAUL'S WRITINGS!

Evidently you need to see more evidence of copying and plagiarism to convince you. How about these?


"The student of spiritual wisdom cannot go through his day, satisfied that he has read some truth in the morning, or that he is going to hear some truth in the afternoon or evening. There must be a conscious activity of truth going on all the time. - Practicing the Presence

http://www.scribd.com/doc/82916572/Practicing-the-Presence-of-God-Joel-S-Goldsmith

"Anyone following the path of ECKANKAR cannot go through a day satisfied that he has read some truth in the morning or that he is going to hear some truth in the afternoon or evening. There must be a conscious realization of truth going on all the time." - The Key to Eckankar

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0KObtCQpPKbZDhiNjhkZmQtNjI5Yy00ZTZlLWJjZDYtYjY3Yzg1Y2I4Mzhj/edit

"Apart from Truth being spoken to others, Truth is an absolute need in our lives. We must see Truth and know Truth and think Truth, always. If we refuse to see Truth, or pretend we cannot tell what is true and what is not; if we distort Truth or seek to mix it with untruth; if we, in fact, like to deceive both ourselves and others if the truth does not present an attractive aspect to us, then chaos will reign in our lives. Our Real Self will be in conflict with our outer self and we shall continually find ourselves in the most unpleasant situations."

http://thought-bricks.com/courses/thought-bricks-foundation-lessons/thought-bricks-9-truth-liberator/

Bernard:

The "Divine Promises" have been puzzling thinking people throughout the ages. For while they speak of love; they speak of wrath. How can the two be reconciled?

It is this way. The divine promises are spoken as the voice of everlasting law. God put this law into action at the beginning of the world, that "whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap". This law is just and logical, part of great inheritance of man, who is God's offspring and heir.

Whatsoever God has "sown" on earth by the power of his divine thought has grown into visible reality. Therefore whatever we "sow", as offspring and heir of God, comes into visible reality too.

God's thoughts are infinite; man's are finite - both operate under the same divinely appointed law. With this knowledge the divine promises are made clear in both their aspects. If evil is sown in thought, evil is "reaped". If good is sown in thought, good is "reaped".

How then to turn evil, once "sown" and reaped, into good? By the power of Christ within, the intermediary which saves us from our "sins". The scripture tells us, "Your life is hide with Christ in God". This divinely appointed "bridge" between God and man, between God and not-good (or evil) enables that which is not good to become good, that which is not happy to become happy and that which is incurable to become curable. [... .]

http://thought-bricks.com/charts-2/divine-promises-chart-affirmation-exercise/

"Anyone following the path of ECKANKAR cannot go through a day satisfied that he has read some truth in the morning or that he is going to hear some truth in the afternoon or evening. There must be a conscious realization of truth going on all the time." [The Key to Eckankar]

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/iGrI8aNG0Dc/9-xAkCNiuTcJ

So truth is important.

"The student of spiritual wisdom cannot go through his day, satisfied that he has read some truth in the morning, or that he is going to hear some truth in the afternoon or evening. There must be a conscious activity of truth going on all the time. - Practicing the Presence

http://www.scribd.com/doc/82916572/Practicing-the-Presence-of-God-Joel-S-Goldsmith

KTE - p. 40

"Spiritual consciousness is attained through the activity of truth in consciousness. Dwelling on scriptural quotations or statements of truth helps to spiritualize thought. The more truth we read and hear, the more truth is active in our consciousness. We learn to abide in the world by putting truth into ourselves. This is the first step on the way to God."

PTP - p. 20

Spiritual consciousness is attained through the activity of truth in consciousness. Dwelling on scriptural quotations or statements of truth helps to spiritualize thought. The more truth that we read and hear, the more active is truth in our consciousness. Thus we learn to abide in the Word. This is the first step on the Way.

TKTE - p. 40

"The second step cannot be taken unless the first step has been mastered, that is, knowing the letter of truth. All the years we spend in reading truth, attending services, lectures, and classes are fruitful in leading us to that point where inspiration flows from within our own being. This inspiration, however, usually comes only after a thorough grounding in the letter of truth."

PTP - p. 21

The second step, which leads to a state of consciousness where we are receptive and responsive to the still small voice, cannot be taken, however, unless the first step has been mastered, that is, knowing the letter of truth. All the years that a person has spent in reading truth, hearing truth, thinking truth, attending church services, lectures, or classes are fruitful in leading him to that point where inspiration flows from within his own being. This inspiration, however, usually comes only after a thorough grounding in the letter of truth.

TKTE - p. 40

"Yaubl Sacabi told me long ago, 'Let my spirit dwell in you. And so shall the SUGMAD be exalted so that you will bear the harvest of good deeds.'
"To live in this truth, to abide in the Word, is to bear the harvest of all things in the richest manner: that is, to live harmoniously in the spiritual senses. But if we forget to live in the Word, to abide in It, and let It live in us, we become as the branch of a tree that is cut off and withers away.
"How can we live in the Word if we do not know It? We must know the Truth. We must learn what the correct letter of truth is. Let us have a principle with which to work, and let us stand on this principle, until the moment comes when we feel that spiritual awareness within us is realized. Then we shall know that we have attained the spirit of truth, the consciousness of truth, which is the Word of the SUGMAD and is power. Anyone with a sufficient desire for a realization of God can achieve that realization - the grace of God will guarantee it.

PTP - p. 21

Jesus tells us to let "my words abide in you. ... Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit." To live in that truth, to abide in that Word, is to bear fruit richly, that is, to live harmoniously, spiritual lives. But if we forget to live in the Word, to abide in it, and let it abide in us, we become as branches that are cut off and wither. How can we abide in this Word if we do not know it? We must know the truth. We must learn that the correct letter of truth is. Let us have a specific principle with which to work and let us stand on that principle, until the moment comes when we feel that spiritual awareness within us, which is realization. Then we shall know that we have attained the spirit of truth, the consciouness of truth, which is the Word of God and is power. Anyone with a sufficient desire for a realization of God will guarantee it.

[Keep in mind Joel S. Goldsmith's book was called Practicing The Presence and that another phrase he used (and a book by that same name) was called The Infinite Way.]

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/Wle6bykppIc/SjghdLsP_t8J

... continuing from earlier post

TKTE - p. 41

"It is possible to know all the truth found in the letter of truth and still be the branch that withers away, unless we live so completely in the Word and let this Word live in us so that the Very Spirit dwells in us-the Spirit of God in man. No man is devoid of It, but most of us are as unaware of It as we are of the blood coursing through our veins. God is with us, God's presence fills all space, the Spirit of God dwells in us. But how many have felt that presence? It is talked about, prayed for, theorized over, and sermonized about; but It is not experienced! It is the conscious awareness, the actual feeling or realization of the Presence, which is necessary."

PTP - pp. 21-22

It is possible to know all the truth found in the letter of truth and still be a branch that withereth, until we so abide in the Word and let this Word abide in us that the very Spirit of God. There is a Spirit in man. There actually is a Spirit - the Spirit of God in man. No man is devoid of it, but most of us are as unaware of it as we are of the blood coursing through our bodies. God is with us. God's presence fills all space; the Spirit of God dwells in us. But how many people have felt that Presence? It is talked about, prayed about, theorized about, and sermonized about; but It is not experienced. It is the conscious awareness, the actual feeling or realization of the Presence which is necessary.

TKTE - p. 41

"In most religious teachings, we are told that God is everywhere, but this is not true in the sense of prevalence. If the Spirit of God were everywhere, all persons would be free, healthy, wealthy, independent, joyous, and harmonious. The Spirit of God is present only where It is Realized. This is why we are all trying to become channels for Spirit."

PTP - p. 22

In most religious teachings, we are told that the Spirit God is everywhere, but that is not true. If the Spirit of the Lord were everywhere, everybody would be free, healthy, wealthy, independent, joyous, and harmonious. No. the Spirit of the Lord is present only where it is realized.

TKTE - p. 41

"Unless we feel the actual presence of God, then as far as we are concerned, we do not have the realization of this Spirit. It is like electricity (which is everywhere, just as the Spirit of God is), but electricity is of little use or value to anyone unless it is connected in some way for a particular use. So it is with the Spirit of God. It is everywhere in an absolute, spiritual sense, but It is only effective in our experience to the extent to which It is realized."

PTP - p. 22-23

Unless we feel the actual presence of God, then, as far as we are concerned, we do not have this Spirit. Again, it is a case of rolling up the window shades, or it is like saying that electricity is everywhere. That is true. Electricity is everywhere just as the Spirit of God is everywhere. Electricity, however, will be of no value to us, unless it is connected in some way for our particular use. So it is with this Spirit of God. It is everywhere, in an absolute, spiritual sense, but It is only effective in our experience to the extent to which It is realized.

TKTE - pp. 41-42

"Anyone following the path of ECKANKAR cannot go through a day satisfied that he has read some truth in the morning or that he is going to hear some truth in the afternoon or evening. There must be a conscious realization of truth going on all the time. This does not mean he is going to neglect his human duties and activities. It means that he is going to train himself to have some area in his consciousness always active in truth. Whether we look at the forms of nature as trees, flowers, or oceans, or whether we are meeting people, we find some measure of God in each experience. We train ourselves to behold the presence and activity of God in everything around us and live within the Word."

PTP - p. 23

The student of spiritual wisdom cannot go through his day, satisfied that he has read some truth in the morning, or that he is going to hear some truth in the afternoon or evening. There must be a conscious activity of truth going on all the time. That does not mean that we neglect our human duties and activities; it means that we train himself to have some area of consciousness always active in truth. Whether we look out at forms of nature such as trees, flowers, or oceans, or whether we are meeting people, we find some measure of God in each experience. We train ourselves to behold the presence and activity of God in everything around us and to abide in the Word.

TKTE - p. 42

"So it is important to learn all that we can about the correct letter of truth, to understand every principle and then to practice these principles until we go from an intellectual knowledge to an inner awareness of them. We build our foundation on specific principles. Some of these principles are found in all scriptures, but mainly in the Shariyat-Ki-Sugmad, the Way of the Eternal."

PTP - pp. 23-24

It is important to learn all that we can about the correct letter of truth, to understand every principle, and then to practice these principles until we go from an intellectual knowledge to an inner awareness of them. We build our foundation on specific principles. Some of these principles are found in scripture: Christian, Hebrew, and Oriental. Some of them are not found in any written form, but nevertheless, they are known to all the mystics of the world. The further we go in this work, the more necessary it is that we know every one of these principles. They are the foundation of our understanding and they must become so much a part of us that when we are faced with a problem, we do not have to think consciously of any of them.

TKTE - p. 41

"The deeper we go into this work, the more necessary it is that we know every one of these principles. They are the foundation of our understanding, and they must become so much a part of us that when we are faced with a problem we do not have to consciously think of them.
"Someday I will give these principles to you for publication. An understanding of the principles of spiritual living - that is, a knowledge of the correct letter of truth - is necessary. That is the foundation upon which we build, so that we understand where we are going and why, and what our relationship is to God. It is necessary that we know these things so that we do not stumble in a blind faith that at some time or another may desert us. We need to know the correct letter of truth so that we do not find ourselves in a state of mental chaos, relying on one thing today and another tomorrow, never coming to an understanding of God - the nature and character of God, the nature of God's law, and the nature of God's being."

PTP - p. 25

An understanding of the principles of spiritual living, that is, a knowledge of the correct letter of truth, is necessary. That is the foundation upon which we build, so that we understand where we are going and why, and what our relationship to God and our fellowman is. It is necessary that we know these things so that we do not stumble into a blind faith that at some time or another may desert us. We need to know the correct letter of truth in order that we do not find ourselves in a state of mental chaos, relying on one thing today and on another tomorrow, never coming to an understanding of that which is. A spiritual life cannot be built without an understanding of God - the nature and character of God, the nature of God's law, and the nature of God's being.

TKTE - p. 42

"It is possible for anyone to change the trend of his life, not by hearing or reading truth, but by making it an active part of his consciousness in daily experience, until it becomes a habit every moment of the day, instead of an occasional thought. Let God operate in the consciousness morning, noon, and night until the actual awareness comes gradually. Then we make the transition from being hearers of the Word to being doers of the Word. Then we shall be living in the world and shall gather in the harvest of Souls."

PTP - p. 26

It is possible for anyone to change the trend of his life, not by hearing or reading truth, but by making it an active part of his consciousness in daily experience, until it becomes a habit every moment of the day, instead of an occasional thought. Let these principles operate in the consciousness morning, noon, and night, until gradually the actual awareness comes. Then we make the transition from being hearers of the Word to being doers of the Word. Then we shall be abiding in the Word and shall bear fruit richly. [... .]

***

OK that's about the best I can do right now for the similarities between Twitchell and Goldsmith that I've found so far. I have them all in a different format, and where the paragraphs are not broken up, that might be possible to share in the future. I also have examples from the other authors listed on this thread. Bear in mind I am still researching Paul Twitchell's book The Key to Eckankar and may not have found all similarities (near and exact) to date when the book (or what Rebazar Tarzs reportedly said) is compared with other authors and their books. Most of them copyrighted.

There is also Harold Klemp's Introduction for the 2003 version of TKTE that I want to append to this thread. Along with what he had to say about Rebazar Tarzs.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/Wle6bykppIc/v_i6BDdTBjkJ

"Spiritual consciousness is attained through the activity of truth in consciousness. Dwelling on scriptural quotations or statements of truth helps to spiritualize thought. The more truth we read and hear, the more truth is active in our consciousness. We learn to abide in the world by putting truth into ourselves. This is the first step on the way to God."

Based on: The Key to Eckankar - Twitchell

"Spiritual consciousness is attained through the activity of truth in consciousness. Dwelling on scriptural quotations or statements of truth helps to spiritualize thought. The more truth that we read and hear, the more active is truth in our consciousness. Thus we learn to abide in the Word. This is the first step on the Way."

Based on: Practicing The Presence - Goldsmith

[Note: Goldsmith says: "Thus we learn to abide in the Word." where Eckankar says: "We learn to abide in the world ... ." Typo???]

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/nD2iq5AOBzc/4T8Ss0btEFEJ

Paul Twitchell and Harold Klemp both made remarks about Rebazar Tarzs. Paul, reportedly taking down Rebazar's dictation and Harold Klemp further remarking about

(1) the "conversation" "His [Rebazar Tarzs'] conversation with Paul ..."]

and

(2) the "dialogue" ["... the dialogue between Rebazar Tarzs and Paul ... ."]

and Harold also (in some respects)

(3) attempting to explain what Rebazar Tarzs meant.

On this newsgroup (and in so many words) it was suggested, even stated, that plagiarisms do not discount the verity of Eck Masters. Iow, that plagiarisms (by the founder of Eckankar, that were not exactly words from Eck Masters, but rather words copied from library books and credited to certain Eck Masters, etc.) have as if nothing to do with whether Eck Masters are real, or not. It almost looks to me as if some people would rather like to sweep the study and illustration for a "growing list" of plagiarisms out of the way and off of this newsgroup. Although this action is not entirely certain, what is certain are the number of personal "attacks" and ridicule, etc. of those choosing to bring up and maintain a discussion and deeper study of this topic.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.eckankar/ejywO-s5UaM/UlUBm0gpBwAJ

See. This is what it's about Kinpa. THE WORDS OF OTHERS! But you can't stand to be reminded about this and try to minimize the words of others? Including the words of Harold Klemp?

I think you display the behaviors of a manipulator, a compulsive liar and a Troll; to name just a few. And you know what? I'm not the only person who sees this about you and the immature disrespectful and childish ways that you wrote to others here at a.r.e.

[Etznab]

So people in Eckankar who have traversed the stages and come to accept Paul was not a God, Paul plagiarized, paraphrased, copied, compiled and made things up, etc., they are the heroes because these can accept the truth and love to share it with others.

You're very welcome :)

[Henosis Sage]

On Saturday, 6 August 2016 00:08:45 UTC+10, Kinpa wrote:

Matthew "seanarundel53" Sharpe says:

"Then why on earth would you keep displaying these behaviors in public? Foolish boy!"

Yes why do YOU Matthew keep displaying your Lying Pathological Narcissism in
public?

It's because YOU are the only stupid idiotic foolish and disordered little boy here.

[Henosis Sage]

ROTFLMFAO

Etznab 'plagiarises'?

You're a pathetic lying idiot Matthew.

This is what ~30 years in Eckankar does to people.

They become like Twitchell and Klemp - PSYCHOPATHIC LIARS who constantly abused
their Power and those who believed in them.

[Kinpa]

> An understanding of the principles of spiritual living, that is, a knowledge of the correct letter of truth, is necessary. That is the foundation upon which we build, so that we understand where we are going and why, and what our relationship to God and our fellowman is. It is necessary that we know these things so that we do not stumble into a blind faith that at some time or another may desert us. We need to know the correct letter of truth in order that we do not find ourselves in a state of mental chaos, relying on one thing today and on another tomorrow, never coming to an understanding of that which is. A spiritual life cannot be built without an understanding of God - the nature and character of God, the nature of God's law, and the na...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Did I stutter? YOU employ a double standard and have been doing so for time out of mind. And you are STILL propagating someone elses thoughts and research! Way to ride someone elses coattails! Not able to come up with anything yourself?? Did you somehow miss that I wasn't saying anything at all about Sri Paul Twitchell? This has not one thing to do with him, nor with any other author. This was about YOU! Continue repeating the same things that you have been for a decade....you ARE not the sharpest tool in the shed, and you ARE also a bore....but have a great day just the same! I see that you spent a considerable amount of time and effort on this post, so what I said obviously hit a nerve somewhere. Remember this one thing: "The feeling of being 'offended' is a warning indicator that is showing you where to look within yourself for unresolved issues." - Bryant McGill

Now, run along and tell someone that actually cares about anything you say...I notice that no one new is joining you here to talk about plagiarisms....getting the hint yet?

[Henosis Sage]

On Saturday, 6 August 2016 23:22:55 UTC+10, Kinpa wrote:

snipped

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>

Kinpoop: Did I stutter? YOU employ a double standard and have been doing so for time out of mind.


HS: No dick head, it's you who is out of their mind.


Kinpoop: And you are STILL propagating someone elses thoughts and research!


HS: You're talking absolute crap as usual. You are a nutcase.


Kinpoop: Way to ride someone elses coattails! Not able to come up with anything yourself??

HS: Says the nutcase who keeps writing about Paul twitchell, HK, redoing Morimitsu's writings, yabbering on about REbazar, and Nanak, and Rumi and Kirpal Singh, and Goldsmith on the whacko LFN website ......

The LFN where 99.9999% of all the text is COPIED from other wesbites or found
in youtube videos done by others, or Copyright books that you have RIPPED.

Matthew, you truly a deluded dysfunctional stupid nutcase. And a disgusting
liar.

Kinpoop: Did you somehow miss that I wasn't saying anything at all about Sri Paul Twitchell? This has not one thing to do with him, nor with any other author. This was about YOU!

HS: NO dickhead, it's all about YOURSELF, it's always been only about YOURSELF.

You're a pathological moron buddy. A complete flake. A fool. An Idiot.

The only thing you're an expert in is SHIT.


Kinpoop: Continue repeating the same things that you have been for a decade....you ARE not the sharpest tool in the shed, and you ARE also a bore....but have a great day just the same! I see that you spent a considerable amount of time and effort on this post, so what I said obviously hit a nerve somewhere.

HS: again you're an IDIOT .. it's copied and pasted from prior posts you
Numbnut!

Oh diddums, what's with the "bore" bit - move along do not read it, and disappear up your own insidious asshole.

If it's a BORE you sure as shit have just been much of your precious short time
arguing against it and talking SHIT. I am so sorry that common sense and reason
is far beyond your ken. But that's the problem idiots like you have to deal
with. TOUGH!

Kinpoop: Remember this one thing: "The feeling of being 'offended' is a warning indicator that is showing you where to look within yourself for unresolved issues." - Bryant McGill


HS: Good point YOU ARE A NUTCASE Matthew. A complete moron. And a disgusting lying whore!

So Matthew, YOU run along and tell someone that actually cares about anything
you say...I notice that no one new is joining you here to support YOU in 23 MONTHS ... are YOU getting the hint yet?

Will you ever get the BLEEDING OBVIOUS?

Of course not, you're too damn stupid and screwed up you basket case idiot.