Katie speaks for herself :-)

[Katie Higgins]

I am praying that more and more SGI/NST members return to Nichiren's writings and begin to arouse faith in the teachings of the foremost votary of the Lotus Sutra. I write for many who are conflicted and very confused regarding the SGI's rendition of Nichiren's teachings and Buddhism in general. There is a very ugly side to the SGI that is known only to those of us who simply questioned their doctrines based on the Gosho. Thanks to this unmoderated, free wheeling forum, the behaviors and attitudes of the pompous pontificators is exposed and doubt removed regarding the very purpose of the SGI.

I share the teachings of Nichiren, the Lotus Sutra and Shakyamuni Buddha's true identity with others who have not drunk the poison of SGI/NST. There is no greater joy!!


Speaking to his disciples, Nichiren states:

"The doctrine concerning the theoretical and essential teachings is not my own [but was expounded by the Buddha] Those who would distort it can only be possessed by devils, and will topple others as well as themselves into the great citadel of the hell of incessant suffering. How foolish they are! Teach others clearly as I have taught you these many years. Those who call themselves my disciples and practice the Lotus Sutra should all practice as I do. If they do so, Shakyamuni, Taho and all the buddhas of the ten directions as well as the Ten Goddesses will protect them. Yet for all that [some people around Ota Jomyo distort the teaching]. I can not fathom their minds. Priest Nichigyo's (Sammi-bo) death was indeed pitiful....." (Establishing the Four Bodhisattva's as the Object of Worship).

I take Nichiren's words deeply to heart and call myself Nichiren's follower.

Cheers!
~Katie

[Noel]

Katie speaks for herself

No Katie speaks for Dr.Rogowstien I have observed the change over the years since she joined his blog and at best can only parrot from Nichiren and Lotus Sutra without having a clue of its depth due to her superficialness and self-righteousness attitude that keeps her mind closed

[Katie Higgins]

Oops,Noel- hasn't been but little over a year, ONE year since I encountered you on Mark's blog, Eagle Peak. It's not difficult to search the archives there or here to "fact check" your perceptions!

Your assessments are familiar though. Since I began to study the history of the corruption of Nichiren's teachings, the word, "licentious" took on a very significant role. Like the Taisekiji priests who used their status as "authorities", though not becoming bold enough to forge Gosho and fabricate 'transfer documents' and whip up the day-gohonzon myth until long after Nichirten's death, you boldly claim authority wherever you post, under which ever "name" you create! The destroyers of Nichiren's teachings must have felt pretty secure in their time, in terms of being challenged outright , but you are posting your bunk during the era of speedy fact checking capability, Noel-- . Arrogance itself does not appear to have lessened, it is just the "licentious" behavior of the destroyer of Nichiren's teachings that has expanded beyond reasonable understanding!

It is important to 'parrot" the teachings of the masters, Noel-- and then engrave them your mind and heart until you are capable of arousing faith in their words!

~Katie

[Noel]

Over a year then. It feels too long as it hasn't been pleasant. Still waiting for you to come up with proof of those Gosho's of Nichiren that you say is fake. You come up with a lot of allegations but you can't prove much. Your all talk, froth and bubble causing trouble

[Katie Higgins]

Have shared links and sources/ resources -here and with many others . Here, the pushback appears to be a matter of efforts you won’t make !— others have no difficulty grasping both the importance of authenticating Nichiren’s writings and the method employed.

Not doing your homework , Noel — you seem to want to remain stuck and mired in self serving personal attacks. Pity.

~ Katie

[Katie Higgins]

To: Noel
From: Nichiren

“ The Maka Shikan says, ‘ If one lacks FAITH [ in the Lotus Sutra], one (such as Noel) will object that it pertains to the lofty realm of sages ( such as Noel himself ) , something far beyond the capacity of one’s [my] own wisdom to comprehend. If one lacks wisdom [because one has no faith in the Buddha’s words - like Noel], one will become puffed up with arrogance and will claim (like Noel does) to be the equal of the Buddha.” — Kaimoku-sho with annotations by me.

Would Noel consider recitation twice daily of the Lotus Sutra , “ parroting the words of the Sutra”?
Would Noel consider Nichiren’s life long daily recitation of the Lotus Sutra insignificant due to Noel’s “ parroting principle”?

Maybe now that Noel is finally getting the memo , he will correct his erroneous views .

~ Katie

[Noel]

Your as nutty as a fruit cake

[Katie Higgins]

Ones mind of faith certainly expresses itself in one’s own words. I say this as preface to my response to Noel’s deprecating personal slight against me -

Noel is dumb as a brick !!

What sort of idiot repeatedly demeans a person quoting the Gosho and professing faith in the Lotus Sutra? Noel would know the answer if he actually studied Nichiren’s writings. Thanks to
Noel’s participation here , we know he can’t keep using the excuse that he didn’t get the memo!

~ Katie

[Noel]

How many times have you done name calling at those quoting goshos idiot. Look at your stupid self before you get on your high horse or is your dementia so bad that cant remember you fruit loop

[Katie Higgins]

You disregard the words of the Lotus Sutra and insult me for reminding you , with Nichiren’s own words that you are in error . -/

You profess a superior understanding of the Sutra you don’t take literally — that was addressed by Nichiren in the quote above.
It’s actually Nichiren calling you a fool !

Apparently your abstract reasoning and grasp of basic concepts is not on par with your “ superior” analysis of the Lotus Sutra 😁

~ Katie

[Chas.]

1. Actually, Nichiren Daishonin never, ever said to place statues of Shakyamuni on the altar, or in the Butsudan as is done by your puppet masters in Nichiren Shu.

2. Nichiren Daishonin never, ever said that Shakyamuni should be raised up over the rest of humanity and deified like a man-god, such as Christ is deified as the son of God. Instead, Nichiren Daishonin said there is no discernible difference between Shakyamuni and his followers.

3. The Lotus Sutra states unequivocally that Shakyamuni had 15 brothers just like him doing the same thing in different parts of the Universe, and they all had been disciples of their father Great Universal Wisdom Excellence, and the grandfather before him. This means Shakyamuni cannot have a special and unique Man-God status, because there are at least 17 others like him. When Nichiren Daishonin maintained the superiority of Shakyamuni, it was over "other Buddhas" and teachings like Amida/Nembutsu Chosen Over All/Honen, or Mahavairochana/True Word Shingon Esoteric School/Shan-wu-wei, Medicine Master Buddha/Reiki/Yakushi-kyo, etc.

4. Nichiren Daishonin clearly stated that he was Bodhisattva Jogyo in the Gosho, which you and your puppet masters in Nichiren Shu deny.

5. It is (a) Nichiren Daishonin's practice, (b) daimoku Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo, (c) Gohonzon, (d) Gosho that you supposedly hold dear. None of these came from Shakyamuni, the Buddha of the Former Day of the Law, whose obsolete practices YOU MUST NOT FOLLOW. Nichiren Daishonin IS THE Buddha of the Latter Day of the Law, which you and your puppet masters in Nichiren Shu deny.

Thus, the canard that you follow Nichiren Daishonin is easily dismissed. You only really follow your interpretations of him taken out of context in your various screeds relating to "Reply to Yasaburō", which misinterpretations I have refuted previously.

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

When you get around to reading Nichiren’s teachings on Shakyamuni- the main body of his work , the 12 Major writings ,you’ll appreciate the context for revering Shakyamuni Buddha — or rather , maybe it’s time you knew what Nichiren said ? Then you will know why he never wrote a prohibition re: reverence for the true Buddha, Shakyamuni— Nichiren left it to us to determine how to express our deep gratitude for our parent , teacher , sovereign, Shakyamuni!

~ Katie

[Chas.]

On Monday, October 16, 2017 at 6:35:17 PM UTC-7, Katie Higgins wrote:
> New topic? Back to your warped view of the True Buddha, I see...
>
> Since you cannot embrace / believe a thousand or so passages written by Nichiren about Shakyamuni and you cannot brlive the words of the Lotus Sutra Nichiren recommended for daily recitation , you have not yet aroused the joy of faith in the true teachings -. How much less likely is it that you could comprehend the reverence due Shakyamuni? In truth , you cannot / for having failed to approach the Buddha’s teachings with FAITH you lack wisdom —
>
> Fortunately the true teachings of Nichiren are spreading — many who never drank the Gakkai/Shoshu poison are hearing about and embracing the Buddhism Nichiren practiced.
>
> Actually, Chas- your self inflicted compulsion to litter this forum with personal attacks is helping me and others reveal the “true “—
>
> < Katie

I am sure that in your view, my five questions are a "personal attack". In fact they are general questions for anyone supporting your distorted views of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism. It only appears "personal" to you, because the demons that have control of your life are offended and take it personally, and that they should. My radar is locked onto them, and I have them in my targeting system and I am firing at them. Your deep attachment to them makes this process appear "personal", when in reality it is not. Just stay calm and I'll make this as painless as possible.

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

I have answered your questions, Chas-- you have proven lax in your study of the nearly thousand passages Nichiren has written about Shakyamuni Buddha, therefore, you cannot grasp the expressions of reverence for the True Buddha that all of Nichiren's true followers naturally feel.
You are a broken record on "statue worship" "the name of the true entity" and the "identity of the original Buddha"-- all of your misconceptions boil down to negligence in study on your part.

Whatever compels you to insist that I am controlled by demons, it has to be connected to your own faith and practice. You simply cannot make such pronouncements-- or rather , you have not attained what you claim---

The true teachings are spreading Chas-- and as lain pointed out, even your insane resistance is functioning to reveal the truth of Nichiren's actual teachings.

~Katie

[Chas.]

Actually Katie, you don't even have a single answer to any of my five questions:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren/jeDhDwSGoFE/XSzjhQ_1AwAJ

Simply saying you have answered them is not answering, it is saying you have answered them.

Answer just one of them, and we can start from there.

Iain, the Red Baron Dewar is no longer in your flying squadron, Katie. You are left with the likes of Ricky and Noel to spread your "teachings."

Pathetic.

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

Speaking of "teachings", I was reminded today of the very heart of the confusion that surrounds any discussion with you here. A former SGI member shared the "intro to Buddhism Gakkai 101"-- it is the
meaning" assigned to chanting the "Mystic Law"- You hobos tell people that they are "devoting" themselves to a Law/Teaching " that you describe as "the simultaneity of cause and effect; that permeates the universe" IT is NOT about a BUDDHA, but a LAW that is the TRUTH of their lives ; that they will AWAKEN to and realize their BUDDHAOOD/TRUE IDENITY. This is bunk!

Myoho-renge-kyo is the TITLE and the essence of the 28 volume Lotus Sutra; the highest TEACHING of SHAKYAMUNI Buddha. Devoting oneself to the LOTUS SUTRA as Nichiren did is the practice. Your misunderstanding of the main doctrines of Nichiren's teachings is the problem-- but it is your continued practice of heretical doctrine that causes your blindness to the true teachings!

I reminded this former SGI member that devotion to the Lotus Sutra would first and foremost entail BELIEVING the Buddha's golden words. Read the translation of Gongyo. IF you do not believe the Buddha, you are not practicing as Nichiren did. Period.

The most compelling evidence of the difference between SGI heretical slander and correct faith in the teachings of Nichiren is YOUR behavior. From the perspective of your concept of "original enlightenment" and your disregarding the TEXT of the Lotus Sutra--even as you mouth the words each day , YOU display arrogance, and base mindedness-- you have zero humility and less gratitude for the True Buddha-- ANYONE who reads Nichiren's writings cannot dismiss his very clear writing on the Buddha-- and if one practices with this in mind, no way can one behave in the disrespectful and dishonest ways that you, Chas are famous for---

I think it is truly pitiful that you write here with authority and superiority, continually acting AGAINST the Buddha's intent, which you cannot know, since you blatantly disregard the Buddha's own words.

Answer YOUR questions? You dodge the most crucial question of ALL-- what you have "faith' in, is NOT what Nichiren taught-- so why do you continue to claim any connection to Nichiren?

~Katie

The doctrines I have focused on are the Three Treasures and The Daimoku/teaching-- On both, Chas has shown he has no clue what distinguishes Nichiren's doctrines from the Tendai bunk he practices!

[Chas.]

[snip that's enough corrupted logic.]

Let me point out the weakness in your arguments produced by your corrupted logic analysis.

1. You not only have to have faith in the Lotus Sutra and Shayamuni Buddha who preached it correctly. You also have to have faith in his followers, in particular his cousin (and Devadatta's brother) Ananda, whose uncanny memory abilities allowed him to remember every single sutra that the Buddha preached, especially the Lotus Sutra, accompanying sutras and the Nirvana Sutra (the Buddha's last will and testament.)

Then there are all those monks who had to hand this tradition down orally for hundreds of years until these critical sutras and the rest of the canon could be translated into a written language (probably initially, Brahmi, a syllabary of Sanskrit until written Sanskrit was invented.)

After that you have to trust Kumarajiva and the later translators into Chinese, Japanese and English, most of whom were corrupted and made evil mistakes. There has always been one common mortal who did not make mistakes, however.

All along the way, the kind of plagiarism and adulteration that Nichiren Shu is famous for (historically by burning the original copies of Nichiren Daishonin's Gosho letters that they disagreed with after the Daishonin's death, which makes your claims of forging possible,) could have happened in the chain of custody of the documents. It takes faith in all these people to believe in the Lotus Sutra, as well.

Those who do not believe in the mentor and disciple principle are doomed not to have this faith. Those that do not believe that these common mortals are true Buddhas are doomed not to have this faith and must ignore this point entirely as if their corrupted idolatrous school worshiping Shakyamuni as a false man-God somehow floated upon a platform of nothing, when in fact it was held up by the countless acts of sacrifice and suffering for the sake of the Lotus Sutra by the true Buddhas in the ten directions.

2. Your argument rests solely upon the daimoku as simply the title of the Lotus Sutra, from where it gets its value or power simply because of your false belief in Shakyamuni as a man-God means that his preaching the Lotus Sutra makes it the truth. This ignores the fact that the Lotus Sutra itself states that in the past his 15 brothers, father and grandfather preached it before him and in parallel to him elsewhere, and that Shakyamuni predicted other great Buddhas, even Devadatta, would preach it in the future. It is the eternal truth out of their mouths as well.

In fact, it is infinitely more than derivation: Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo is the core and repository of the eternal truth in and of itself, simply because it contains the spoken sound (in the Japanese pronunciation of the Chinese characters) of the name of the eternal Buddha. "Myoho-Renge" who is inseparable from the Law in the true teaching or sutra, "Myoho-Renge-Kyo", to which we devote ourselves and enter and leave meditation upon every time we chant "Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo."

And chanting that can only work, because secretly, each one of us is the true Buddha and that sound is the key unlocking our Buddha wisdom. This is precisely why we attain Buddhahood immediately by chanting, even though we are surrounded by endlessly varying sources of corruption, such are your witch's brew of idolatry and self-hatred from Nichiren Shu.

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

Chas adds his own fantasy teachings to the heretical bunk of his corrupt multi level marketing org.

Refer directly to Nichiren and the Lotus Sutra - arbitrary opinions from self absorbed trolls not worthy of comment !

~ Katie

[Chas.]

You continue to ignore the Lotus Sutra, which refutes your distorted interpretations of what Nichiren Daishonin said in the Gosho, he would never, ever allow that:
___________________________________________________

Katie Higgins and her unreconstructed lying are defeated by the Lotus Sutra itself +

On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 10:11:42 AM UTC-7, Katie Higgins wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 11, 2017 at 11:44:10 PM UTC-4, Chas. wrote:
> > Nevertheless, Nichiren Daishonin DID NOT confer godhood upon Shakyamuni, nor did he request that Yasaburō worship statues of Shakyamuni AS IF he was God Almighty, creator of heaven and earth.
> >
> > He revered Shakyamuni deeply, as we all know, but we all also know he beleived that the Gohonzon was "the supreme object of worship in all Jambudvipa."
> >
> > -Chas.
>

[snip]

>
> 2)>>"’”1 This sutra passage means that this country of Japan is the domain of Shakyamuni Buddha. In addition to the fact that all the gods, such as the Sun Goddess, Great Bodhisattva Hachiman, and Emperor Jimmu, and all the people, from the ruler of the nation on down, dwell within his realm, he is the Buddha to whom we living beings are greatly indebted for three reasons. First, he is our sovereign; second, he is our teacher; and third, he is our father. Among all the Buddhas of the ten directions, only Shakyamuni Buddha is endowed with these three virtues<<"-
>
> ONLY Shakyamuni is endowed with the three virtues--HE, Shakyamuni is the BUDDHA to whom we living beings are greatly indebted..
>

[snip]

As usual, in your lying and intellectually dishonest way, you misquote Nichiren Daishonin by taking his words out of context. I have upper-cased the part you dropped, which undermines your point completely.

Here is the full quote from the "Reply to Yasaburō" Gosho, WND I, p. 827:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/100#para-0

... [I suggest you begin the religious debate with these
... words:] “Although I am an ignorant layman, among the
... teachings I have heard, I was especially impressed by the
... passage in the second volume of the Lotus Sutra that reads,
... ‘Now this threefold world [is all my domain... ]’” This
... sutra passage means that this country of Japan is the
... domain of Shakyamuni Buddha. In addition to the fact that
... all the gods, such as the Sun Goddess, Great Bodhisattva
... Hachiman, and Emperor Jimmu, and all the people, from the
... ruler of the nation on down, dwell within his realm, he is
... the Buddha to whom we living beings are greatly indebted
... for three reasons. First, he is our sovereign; second, he
... is our teacher; and third, he is our father. Among all the
... Buddhas of the ten directions, only Shakyamuni Buddha is
... endowed with these three virtues. THEREFORE, EVEN IF ALL
... THE PEOPLE OF THE COUNTRY OF JAPAN WERE TO SERVE SHAKYAMUNI
... BUDDHA WHOLEHEARTEDLY JUST AS THEY NOW DO AMIDA BUDDHA, IF
... THEY WERE TO PLACE HIM SIDE BY SIDE WITH ANOTHER BUDDHA AND
... TREAT HIM IN THE SAME MANNER, THAT WOULD STILL BE A GRAVE
... ERROR. For example, though someone were our own ruler and
... wise besides, if we were to shift our allegiance to the
... ruler of another country—for instance, if, while dwelling
... in Japan, we were to pay honor to the king of China or
... Koryŏ and slight the sovereign of Japan—could we be called
... persons who honor the great sovereign of this country

Who Nichiren Daishonin is clearly characterizing as "another Buddha" are other Buddhas of other incredibly slanderous teachings:

1. Amida Buddha of the Western Realm / Nembutsu / Hōnen (1133-1212) and his 1198 teaching "The Nembutsu Chosen above All"

2. Mahavairochana / True Word Shingon Esoteric School / Shan-wu-wei (637-735) and Kōbō (774-835) and their writings about the teachings of the Diamond Realm and Womb Realm mandalas.

3. Medicine Master Buddha (Yakushi-nyorai) of the Pure Emerald World in the East / Reiki / Yakushi-kyo translated in 650 by Hsüan-tsang

4. Shakyamuni of the Flower Garland Sutra / Flower Garland School / Fa-tsang (643–712) and his doctrine raising the Flower Garland school over those of all other schools, including the Lotus Sutra school.

5. The Void / countless Zen schools / many different Zen haters of the Lotus Sutra and Buddhism.

etc.

This is who Nichiren Daishonin was up against and clearly what he intended to differentiate, not any other person who would attain Buddhahood as Shakyamuni did and as he preached in the Lotus Sutra that his 15 brothers, father and grandfather did before him, and as he predicted that his followers and even Devadatta would after him.

How can you possibly lie like this when the Lotus Sutra so clearly exposes your lies? The details are here:
___________________________________________________________

The Lotus Sutra defeats Mark Rogow and Katie Higgins deification: the Buddha had 15 brothers just like him +

In response to Mark Rogow's weak and corrupted arguments:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren/1fUX4H4ZIaw/hwfPlTmaBwAJ

Here's some Lotus Sutra for you to consider, Mark Rogow, in your utter defeat.

You say that Shakyamuni alone is the Tathagata, the only Thus Come One, and everyone else should prostrate themselves and kiss the feet of his statues as if he were God Almighty, creator of heaven and earth, and no one else is a Buddha. However, this is utterly incorrect.

When Shakyamuni preaches the Lotus Sutra, he is speaking for the soul of Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo that exists in all living beings, but he is not the only one that preaches thus. In the Lotus Sutra he predicts future Buddhas from his followers and even from Devadatta. They will all become Thus Come Ones and that means they will all preach the Lotus Sutra as he did.

In the remote past there were also others who preached thus, Shakyamuni's grandfather, his father the buddha Great Universal Wisdom Excellence and 15 brothers:

The Parable of the Phantom City, LS-7, pp 156-157:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/lsoc/Content/7#para-35

... "Now, monks, the buddha Great Universal Wisdom Excellence
... passed ten small kalpas before the Law of the buddhas
... finally appeared before him and he attained supreme
... perfect enlightenment. Before this buddha left the
... householder's life, he had sixteen sons, the first of whom
... was named Wisdom Accumulated. These sons each had various
... kinds of rare objects and toys of one kind or another, but
... when they heard that their father had attained supreme
... perfect enlightenment, they all threw aside their rare
... objects and went to where the buddha was. Their mothers,
... weeping, followed after them.
...
... "Their grandfather, who was a wheel-turning sage king,
... along with a hundred chief ministers, as well as a
... hundred, thousand, ten thousand, million of his subjects,
... all together surrounded the sons and followed them to the
... place of enlightenment, all wishing to draw close to the
... thus come one Great Universal Wisdom Excellence, to offer
... alms, pay honor, venerate, and praise him. When they
... arrived, they bowed before his feet, touching their heads
... to the ground.

He and his fifteen brothers all preached in different Buddha lands:

From the Lotus Sutra, Chapter 7, "Parable of the Phantom City", pp.172-173:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/lsoc/Content/7#para-282

... “You monks, I will now tell you this. These disciples of
... the buddha, these sixteen shramaneras, have now all
... attained supreme perfect enlightenment. In the lands in the
... ten directions they are at present preaching the Law, with
... immeasurable hundreds, thousands, ten thousands, millions
... of bodhisattvas and voice-hearers for their retinues. Two
... of these shramaneras have become buddhas in the eastern
... region. One is named Akshobhya and lives in the Land of
... Joy. The other is named Sumeru Peak. Two are buddhas in the
... southeastern region, one named Lion Voice, the other named
... Lion Appearance. Two are buddhas in the southern region,
... one named Void-Dwelling, the other named Ever Extinguished.
... Two are buddhas in the southwestern region, one named
... Emperor Appearance, the other named Brahma Appearance. Two
... are buddhas in the western region, one named Amitayus, the
... other named Saving All from Worldly Suffering. Two are
... buddhas in the northwestern region, one named Tamala Leaf
... Sandalwood Fragrance Transcendental Power, the other named
... Sumeru Appearance. Two are buddhas in the northern region,
... one named Cloud Freedom, the other named Cloud Freedom
... King. Of the buddhas of the northeastern region, one is
... named Destroying All Worldly Fears. THE SIXTEENTH IS I,
... SHAKYAMUNI BUDDHA, WHO IN THIS SAHA LAND HAVE ATTAINED
... SUPREME PERFECT ENLIGHTENMENT.

Presumably, when each preached the Lotus Sutra, each in turn spoke for the entity of the Mystic Law welling up from within their lives. Each in turn said, "I [name goes here] tell all creatures that I [name goes here] exist forever in this world."

Presumably, none of them had the job of declaring what is the [name goes here]. That is the job of some one who comes sometime later as Bodhisattva Jogyo who says that "the actual name of the entity" was/is/will be "Myoho-Renge."

I presume that having been thus in this world, it is thus in those "other lands".

My presumptions might be wrong, but AT LEAST THEY ARE IN LINE WITH THE ACTUAL WORDS DESCRIBING THE TRUE REALITY IN THE LOTUS SUTRA ITSELF, PREACHED BY SHAKYAMUNI, HIMSELF, AND NOT IN DIRECT CONTRADICTION OF THE GOLDEN WORDS OF THE LOTUS SUTRA PREACHED BY SHAKYAMUNI BUDDHA, AS YOUR DISTORTIONS OF BUDDHISM ARE.

-Chas.
___________________________________________________________

On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 2:20:33 PM UTC-7, Katie Higgins wrote:
> The point, Chas is for you to address Nichiren's OWN words.
>
> Can't you do that?
>
> ~Katie

I just did, above:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren/Wo7_aMfC7oE/VgoXEoHDAgAJ

The list of five "other Buddhas" is what he is addressing in that text. Other teachings accompanied by other teachers. He didn't over-complicate his argument by describing them as "other provisional Buddhas in the ten directions", that's all. He is clearly addressing Amida, Medicine Master Buddha, Mahavairochana, Flower Garland Sutra Buddha, etc., all of which are replacements for Shakyamuni of the Lotus Sutra, the Lord of Teachings.

And none of the above are "the actual name of the entity" that was, is and will always be "Myoho-Renge."

Your lying undermines your arguments: when you say I have replaced the Shakyamuni Buddha of the Lotus Sutra by Nichiren Daishonin, I have not. Neither one is "the actual name of the entity", that was, is and will always be "Myoho-Renge."

Can you read? I'm beginning to doubt it.

-Chas.
___________________________________________________________

On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 3:11:05 AM UTC-7, Katie Higgins wrote:
> What is the purpose of a religious debate, Chas?
> You’re ignoring the premise - to establish and defend the doctrines and the teachings upon which they are based .
>
> The POINT you are missing is that Nichiren’s instructions to Yasaburo pertain to the MAJOR doctrines of Nichiren’s teachings : The Buddha and the Lotus Sutra — NOT a “ primordial entity “ not even mentioned in the Lotus Sutra , that you claim is superior to the Buddha who preached the Lotus Sutra ‼️
>
> ~ Katie

My contention is this.

1. You are misunderstanding Nichiren Daishonin.

2. The proof is that your understanding of him disagrees with what the Lotus Sutra explicitly says not requiring interpretation.

3. Thus, your misunderstanding is simply a misunderstanding, because Nichiren Daishonin would never, ever disagree with the Lotus Sutra.

4. So, when the Lotus Sutra says that Shakyamuni has 15 brothers, a father and grandfather doing the same thing he does, that means he is not above all other Buddhas preaching the Lotus Sutra, only above other "Buddhas" preaching other teachings.

5. Thus, the statement that there is no discernible difference between anyone who chants Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo stands, with the caveat that Nichiren Daishonin makes regarding chanting while working against the Buddha's intent, as you and Mark Rogow and anyone who follows you do.

-Chas.
___________________________________________________________

On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 6:54:43 PM UTC-7, Katie Higgins wrote:
> I follow Nichiren — there is no idol worship in his teachings — that and must of the bunk Chas spews here is all in Chas’ head -
>

[snip]

1. Actually Nichiren Daishonin never, ever said to place statues of Shakyamuni on the altar, or in the Butsudan as is done by your puppet masters in Nichiren Shu.

2. Nichiren Daishonin never, ever said that Shakyamuni should be raised up over the rest of humanity and deified like a man-god, such as Christ is deified as the son of God. He said there is no discernible difference between Shakyamuni and his followers.

3. The Lotus Sutra states unequivocally that Shakyamuni had 15 brothers just like him doing the same thing in different parts of the Universe, and they all had been disciples of their father Great Universal Wisdom Excellence, and the grandfather before him.

4. Nichiren Daishonin clearly stated that he was Bodhisattva Jogyo in the Gosho, which you and your puppet masters in Nichiren Shu deny.

5. It is (a) Nichiren Daishonin's practice, (b) daimoku Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo, (c) Gohonzon, (d) Gosho that you supposedly hold dear. None of these came from Shakyamuni, the Buddha of the Former Day of the Law, whose practices YOU MUST NOT FOLLOW. Nichiren Daishonin IS THE Buddha of the Latter Day of the Law, which you and your puppet masters in Nichiren Shu deny.

Therefore, the canard that you follow Nichiren Daishonin is easily dismissed. You only really follow your interpretations of him taken out of context in your various screeds relating to "Reply to Yasaburō", which misinterpretations I have refuted previously.

-Chas.
______________________________________________________

On Monday, October 16, 2017 at 6:35:17 PM UTC-7, Katie Higgins wrote:
> New topic? Back to your warped view of the True Buddha, I see...
>
> Since you cannot embrace / believe a thousand or so passages written by Nichiren about Shakyamuni and you cannot brlive the words of the Lotus Sutra Nichiren recommended for daily recitation , you have not yet aroused the joy of faith in the true teachings -. How much less likely is it that you could comprehend the reverence due Shakyamuni? In truth , you cannot / for having failed to approach the Buddha’s teachings with FAITH you lack wisdom —
>
> Fortunately the true teachings of Nichiren are spreading — many who never drank the Gakkai/Shoshu poison are hearing about and embracing the Buddhism Nichiren practiced.
>
> Actually, Chas- your self inflicted compulsion to litter this forum with personal attacks is helping me and others reveal the “true “—
>
> < Katie

I am sure that in your view, my five questions are a "personal attack". In fact they are general questions for anyone supporting your distorted views of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism. It only appears "personal" to you, because the demons that have control of your life are offended and take it personally, and that they should. My radar is locked onto them, and I have them in my targeting system and I am firing at them. Your deep attachment to them makes this process appear "personal", when in reality it is not. Just stay calm and I'll make this as painless as possible.

Your endlessly repeated error is to think that your distorted views of Nichiren Daishonin's Gosho and Buddhism that are completely in conflict with a direct reading of the many passages of the Lotus Sutra where Shakyamuni talks about his 15 brothers, father and grandfather, would ever be countenanced by Nichiren Daishonin. He would not tolerate such views of Shakyamuni as a prevaricator, and he demonstrates his intolerance of such corrupted thinking over and over in the Gosho.

-Chas.
___________________________________________________________

Katie Higgins's Arguments Are Weak, Because She Does Not Embrace Mentor And Disciple +

In fact, it is infinitely more than your derivation: Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo is the core and repository of the eternal truth in and of itself, simply because it contains the spoken sound (in the Japanese pronunciation of the Chinese characters) of the name of the eternal Buddha, "Myoho-Renge" who is inseparable from the Law in the true teaching or sutra, "Myoho-Renge-Kyo", to which we devote ourselves and enter and leave meditation upon every time we chant "Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo."

And chanting that can only work, because secretly, each one of us is the true Buddha and that sound is the key unlocking our Buddha wisdom. This is precisely why we attain Buddhahood immediately by chanting, even though we are surrounded by endlessly varying sources of corruption, such as your witch's brew of idolatry and self-hatred from Nichiren Shu.

-Chas.
___________________________________________________________

[Katie Higgins]

Embrace the Buddha’s golden words with faith / then you’ll be on the same page as Nichiren.

Best~
~Katie

[Chas.]

This from a woman who blatantly ignores the Lotus Sutra passages regarding the Buddha's 15 older brothers, father and grandfather, who all preached the Lotus Sutra in different parts of the universe before and in parallel to him.

She ignores this FACT, because it runs completely opposite to her distorted doctrine of worshiping the statues of a falsely deified Shakyamuni as God Almighty, creator of heaven and earth: Shakyamuni as Jehovah or Jesus Christ.

I would bet a month's salary, that Katie Higgins was a good little Christian girl growing up, yes? Confess, and do your penance.

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

When will you stop ignoring the chapters of the Lotus sutra Nichiren recommended for daily recitation?

You are not grounding your "kanji" in the Lotus Sutra, so naturally you are befuddled.

And you just lost your bet, Chas!! making assumptions from your wrong- headedness is a serious liability !

~Katie

[Chas.]

It was just a guess and a bet, Katie, don't get all up in yourself about it. Since you weren't a good little Christian girl, you are getting to your statue-worshiping idolatry of Shakyamuni as a falsely-deified man-God Jehovah or Jesus Christ rather late in life, I think. Early or late, it's still idolatry and false-deification.

The fact that you crypto-speak in your own cloaked mixture of English and Japanese is kind of wizardly Tantric, I think, as well. Hiding your meanings in the mystery, so to speak, instead of putting them in plain English and exposing your fallacious reasoning to the light of day.

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

Crypto-speak? Must be what you call the words of Nichiren-- and still you cannot fathom why he recommended reciting the golden words of the Buddha-- specifically the words that IDENTIFY the Buddha.

All you do is "guess", Chas because you have no firm grasp of even the basics of Buddhism --

I believe Shakyamuni's statements about himself-- you apparently do not.

I was the kind of little girl who questioned everything and by the time I encountered Nichiren's teachings, I was quite capable of noting what a crock the NSA was -- there are many grown up women who were fearless "little girls" , Chas-- and none of us has any problem calling out you pretentious fools for the lies you tell and the demeaning attitudes you project towards women-- EVEN claiming to follow Nichiren, who had the utmost respect for the women who followed him. - You are a pompous fool!

I do not "worship" statues-- much as it pleases you to make such a stupid statement. I do defer to Nichiren's practice of showing reverence for the True Buddha, Shakyamuni and I encourage others to do the same. You show what a total sham your org. is with every slight you make towards those who actually practice BUDDHISM.-- Congratulations on revealing the True colors of your multi-billion dollar multi level marketing scam!

~Katie

[Chas.]

[snip]

Liar, liar, pants on fire. Elsewhere you have contradicted yourself on your idolatry, if it walks, swims and quacks like a duck, it's most likely a duck:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren/xJD6LNGes-E/T7xhQ2DbAAAJ

On Saturday, July 9, 2016 at 5:07:50 PM UTC-7, Katie Higgins wrote:

[snip]

||| How do I display my own adoring reverence for Shakyamuni ?
||| I have a small statue of Shakyamuni on the altar table
||| beneath my Gohonzon. I bow in reverence to it and chant
||| daimoku three times.
|||

[snip]

Placing statues of a falsely-deified Shakyamuni as God Almighty Jehovah or Jesus Christ, in front of the Gohonzon is a PHYSICAL SLANDER of the Gohonzon. This is noticed by the entity, couldn't possibly miss it.

And my references to you as a little girl? You would not have been a little boy, would you? I am only bowing to the obvious, it's not misogyny. I battle with you in the same way I do with other distorters of Buddhism, David Cole, Iain Dewar, Mark Rogow, etc. I do not treat women issendai/icchantika any differently than I do the men: the same wall-to-wall refutation, no favoritism towards either sex.

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

Let's let Nichiren speak to this issue that perplexes you so, Chas:

"On Consecrating an Image of Shakyamuni Buddha Made by Shijō Kingo"

"IN your daily records you write that you have fashioned a wooden image of Shakyamuni Buddha. With regard to the eye-opening ceremony appropriate for such a statue, the Universal Worthy Sutrastates, “This great vehicle sutra is the treasure storehouse of the Buddhas, the eye of the Buddhas of the ten directions and the three existences.” It also says, “This correct and equal sutra is the eye of the Buddhas. It is through this sutra that the Buddhas are able to acquire the five types of vision.”

No admonishments there!

Nichiren emphasizes the Buddha and the teaching (Three Jewels):

"In the case of the Buddhas and bodhisattvas as well as the other deities, we hear that they bestow superb blessings, but with our dull eyes we have yet to see it. In the case of the sun deity, however, there can be no doubt, for his blessings are before our very eyes. Were it not for Shakyamuni, the lord of teachings, how could such blessings as these be bestowed? And were it not for the power of the wonderful sutra of the one vehicle, how could such marvels appear before us? It is wondrous to contemplate!"

WERE IT NOT FOR SHAKYAMUNI, THE LORD OF TEACHINGS, HOW COULD SUCH BLESSINGS AS THESE BE BESTOWED? -- Is this not cause to revere and express our gratitude for Shakyamuni Buddha?

Obviously Nichiren encourages Shijo Kingo to revere the image of Shakyamuni Shijo has fashioned himself.:

"This Buddha of yours, however, is a living Buddha. It differs in no respect p.685from the wooden image of the Buddha made by King Udayana,6or that fashioned by King Bimbisāra. Surely Brahmā, Shakra, the deities of the sun and moon, and the four heavenly kings will attend you as a shadow accompanies a body and protect you always."

No idolatry here-- Shakyamuni is the eternal- living Buddha-- who constantly abides in this world; our parent, teacher and sovereign -- Nichiren never said otherwise!

You have some warped ideas about "God almighty" that in no way pertain to the Buddha-- but, instead are concepts that reflect a separation that does not exist between us and the Buddha --unless, like you, Chas, one disregards one's debt of gratitude to the Buddha and behaves like a stupid hobo.

~Katie

[Chas.]

On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 1:43:02 PM UTC-7, Katie Higgins wrote:
> Chas cannot - or will not address the words of Nichiren on Shakyamuni Buddha.

I have addressed those: Nichiren Daishonin corresponds by letter with his correspondents. He speaks to them according to their understanding. When he speaks to Sairen-bō Nichijō, the Tendai monk he converted on Sado Island in the "Entity of the Mystic Law" Gosho, he states that the "actual name of the entity" is "Myoho-Renge." When he speaks to his untrained followers of the time, he refers to the Lord of Teachings Shakyamuni as the Buddha, since that is the handle most people of the time can grasp.

Also, Nichiren Daishonin never, ever admonishes them to worship statues of Shakyamuni as some kind of man-God, he admonishes his followers to chant to "the supreme object of devotion in all of Jambudvipa", the Gohonzon with Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo down the middle as the most prominent center of everything. Many Treasures Taho Buddha and Shakyamuni Buddha are to the right and left respectively (Taho is in the Treasure Tower first and read first as you read right to left) and their characters are similar in prominence to the Four Bodhisattvas (representing the Bodhisattvas of the Earth) up on the top row.

The Gohonzon refutes your strange Nichiren Shu doctrine, Katie Higgins.

It is Katie Higgins that cannot address the fact that the daimoku that comes out of her mouth also refutes her strange doctrine: she chants Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo, devoting herself to the teaching of "the actual name of the entity" or "Myoho-Renge" ... when her distorted mind is thinking Nam-Shakamuni-butsu.

This is the primal cause for her continuing rage against the Kosen Rufu movement and Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism.

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

Only your fabricated writings support your "primordial entity named, myth-renge-kyo"-- but, hey you don't even know WHEN that idea became popular or WHO expounded it, do you? It was a few hundred years after Nichiren's passing-- (hint)

"In the case of the Buddhas and bodhisattvas as well as the other deities, we hear that they bestow superb blessings, but with our dull eyes we have yet to see it. In the case of the sun deity, however, there can be no doubt, for his blessings are before our very eyes. Were it not for Shakyamuni, the lord of teachings, how could such blessings as these be bestowed? And were it not for the power of the wonderful sutra of the one vehicle, how could such marvels appear before us? It is wondrous to contemplate!"

The take home message bears repeating for deaf hobos!!

"WERE IT NOT FOR SHAKYAMUNI, THE LORD OF TEACHINGS, HOW COULD SUCH BLESSINGS AS THESE BE BESTOWED?" -- Is this not cause to revere and express our gratitude for Shakyamuni Buddha?

You aren't propagating Nichiren's teachings-- YOU have entirely missed that the main doctrines Nichiren's Lotus Sutra Buddhism-- namely the Three Jewels and the Daimoku--

BTW, I have zero rage against your phony KR movement-- i maintain steadfast faith in the Buddha's teachings and KNOW that your defeat and the ruination of your sham org. is certain. No need to get emotional--

~Katie

[Chas.]

As usual, you, like the Nichiren Shu Five Senior priests who burned his Gosho letters that they disagreed with after the death of Nichiren Daishonin, as they distorted Nichiren Buddhism into slavish idolatry of Shakyamuni as a Hindu god, or God Almighty Jehovah ... you slander the Gosho letter received by Sairen-bō, calling it "fake."

Ultimately, you will have to struggle to maintain your private version of the Gosho, since both Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo and the Gohonzon refute your distorted views.

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

Nichiren-- not "Nichiren Shu , said this:

"WERE IT NOT FOR SHAKYAMUNI, THE LORD OF TEACHINGS, HOW COULD SUCH BLESSINGS AS THESE BE BESTOWED?" --

ME-- not Nichiren She asks you this : Is this not cause to revere and express our gratitude for Shakyamuni Buddha?

Simple, straight forward-- try real hard to focus or skip responding if all you can do is obfuscate with more inane drivel about your God almighty complex..

~Katie

[Chas.]

The problem is that your doctrine rests completely upon the idea that Shakyamuni Buddha as a man-God has to be a different kind of human to be above the rest of us, an ubermensch or superman.

However, he was born of a human father and mother, like the rest of us and has 22 autosome pairs and a sex chromosome pair X and Y, just like me.

Or, maybe it was his noble lineage as a taller, slimmer and lighter-skinned higher-caste prince of the Shakyas.

That would be racist, although it probably made him more appealing to the crowds in the racist society of that time. Another expedient means with more side effects there.

The fact is, that Shakyamuni Buddha, like Nichiren Daishonin, is just a human being, and was no different from the rest of us. All human beings are Buddhas, altough some of them manifest their Buddhahood more prominently, and some individuals are the first to preach the Lotus Sutra in world during the Former Day of the Law, and some individuals are the first to give us the the practice for the Latter Day of the Law: Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo, Gohonzon, the Gosho, leading the Bodhisattvas of Earth as Jogyo/Superior Practices and having brilliant disciples Nikko Shonin and Nichimoku Shonin, who founded the Fuji School.

Any religious doctrine that worships a human being placed above the rest of us as a deity through idolatry has historically always led to warfare.

As your Nichiren Buddhist doctrine of idolatry has arisen, Kim Jong Un of the huge statues and leader-worship as a man-God, has gained nukes and throw-weight in his missile systems targeting two countries in particular, Nichiren Shu's Japan and Rogow and Higgin's U.S. where the idolatry of Shakyamuni Buddha threatens the prominent place of the Gohonzon in Nichiren Buddhist altars as "the supreme object of worship in all of Jambudvipa."

Gee, you think there might be a man-God causal connection in that?

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

Oksy- here again is Chas “ thought for the day” pasted here - probably all over this board .

The response is simple - Nichiren’s teachings are based on keeping and upholding the Lotus Sutra. If you cannot believe , accept with faith the Buddha’s golden words you recite ( on Nichiren’s recommendation) everyday , then you aren’t following Nichiren. Period .

Your misconceptions about the Buddha are stunning but since you have not approached the Buddha’s teachings with FAITH there is no reason to expect you would have the wisdom to develop appropriate reverence for the Eternal Buddha of the Lifespan chapter of the Lotus Sutra -/ the historical Buddha in India , the manifest body of the Eternal Buddha is one aspect / two but not two -/ so much more profound than the pedestrian descriptions of “ god-man “ that comprises your ignorant rhetoric .

~Katie

[Chas.]

On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 10:56:10 AM UTC-7, Katie Higgins wrote:
> The problem is : you don’t know Nichiren’s doctrine or your own !!
>
> You are debating in a dark cave - ranting like a brainwashed hobo.
>
> There is a great need to focus on doctrine - the great deficit in the knowledge base of SGI/ NST members is stunning .
>
> ~ Katie

What about Katie Higgins, who can't even read the Lotus Sutra that refutes her inferences regarding Nichiren Daishonin's statements about Shakyamuni in the Gosho? Nichiren Daishonin is utterly and completely incapable of holding an opinion that is so easily refuted by the Lotus Sutra!

Shakyamuni literally CANNOT BE the one and only eternal Buddha, simply because he was the last of 16 to attain Buddhahood. In the remote past there were also others who preached thus, Shakyamuni's grandfather, his father the buddha Great Universal Wisdom Excellence and 15 brothers:

Quoting "The Parable of the Phantom City", LS-7, pp 156-157:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/lsoc/Content/7#para-35

,.. "Now, monks, the buddha Great Universal Wisdom Excellence
,.. passed ten small kalpas before the Law of the buddhas
,.. finally appeared before him and he attained supreme
,.. perfect enlightenment. Before this buddha left the
,.. householder's life, he had sixteen sons, the first of whom
,.. was named Wisdom Accumulated. These sons each had various
,.. kinds of rare objects and toys of one kind or another, but
,.. when they heard that their father had attained supreme
,.. perfect enlightenment, they all threw aside their rare
,.. objects and went to where the buddha was. Their mothers,
,.. weeping, followed after them.
,..
,.. "Their grandfather, who was a wheel-turning sage king,
,.. along with a hundred chief ministers, as well as a
,.. hundred, thousand, ten thousand, million of his subjects,
,.. all together surrounded the sons and followed them to the
,.. place of enlightenment, all wishing to draw close to the
,.. thus come one Great Universal Wisdom Excellence, to offer
,.. alms, pay honor, venerate, and praise him. When they
,.. arrived, they bowed before his feet, touching their heads
,.. to the ground.

Also, Shakyamuni and his fifteen brothers all preached in different Buddha lands roughly in parallel:

Quoting the Lotus Sutra, Chapter 7, "Parable of the Phantom City", pp.172-173:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/lsoc/Content/7#para-282

,.. “You monks, I will now tell you this. These disciples of
,.. the buddha, these sixteen shramaneras, have now all
,.. attained supreme perfect enlightenment. In the lands in the
,.. ten directions they are at present preaching the Law, with
,.. immeasurable hundreds, thousands, ten thousands, millions
,.. of bodhisattvas and voice-hearers for their retinues. Two
,.. of these shramaneras have become buddhas in the eastern
,.. region. One is named Akshobhya and lives in the Land of
,.. Joy. The other is named Sumeru Peak. Two are buddhas in the
,.. southeastern region, one named Lion Voice, the other named
,.. Lion Appearance. Two are buddhas in the southern region,
,.. one named Void-Dwelling, the other named Ever Extinguished.
,.. Two are buddhas in the southwestern region, one named
,.. Emperor Appearance, the other named Brahma Appearance. Two
,.. are buddhas in the western region, one named Amitayus, the
,.. other named Saving All from Worldly Suffering. Two are
,.. buddhas in the northwestern region, one named Tamala Leaf
,.. Sandalwood Fragrance Transcendental Power, the other named
,.. Sumeru Appearance. Two are buddhas in the northern region,
,.. one named Cloud Freedom, the other named Cloud Freedom
,.. King. Of the buddhas of the northeastern region, one is
,.. named Destroying All Worldly Fears. THE SIXTEENTH IS I,
,.. SHAKYAMUNI BUDDHA, WHO IN THIS SAHA LAND HAVE ATTAINED
,.. SUPREME PERFECT ENLIGHTENMENT.

And later he points out all the others that will preach the Lotus Sutra just like he did, including his cousin, Devadatta, who tried to murder him and replace him.

If I could so easily refute Nichiren Daishonin using the Lotus Sutra, he could never have won a single debate, or even finished a lecture on the Lotus Sutra without being refuted by his disciples.

Your distorted view of Buddhism literally cannot have been Nichiren Daishonin's view! It is IMPOSSIBLE!

Neither you nor Mark Rogow have ever responded to this point of agony in your twisted Nichiren Shu doctrine. Your distorted view of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra is completely and idiotically wrong.

And using fallacious reasoning, like the ad hominem method of calling me a brainwashed hobo, simply is proof of your fallacy: since you cannot address my argument in any rational way, you irrationally challenge the person making the argument by name-calling. So transparently wrong!

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

Do you respect the Buddhist scholars paid for by SGI members’ $$?

Here are a few lines from Hiroshi Kanno ‘s article “ The Reception of the Lotus Sutra in Japan.”

Talking about Nichiren’s view that Sakyamuni dominates the world — he notes it is based on the third chapter of the Lotus Sutra,” Simile and Parable “- ( probably ALL a big surprise for Chas 😬)

“ But now this Threefold world is all my domain, and the living beings in it are all my children. Now this place is beset by many pains and trials. I am the only person who can rescue and protect others.”

“In other words”, Kanno writes,” it teaches that this Saha World is Sakyamuni ‘s domain and, therefore, there is a deep religious connection between Sakyamuni and all sentient beings”

Kanno states : “ In his writings , we can easily comprehend Nichiren’s fervent faith in Sakyamuni of the remotest past @

Hiroshi Kanno , as Chas surely must know , is the Vice Director of the Institute of Oriental Philosophy,a senior research fellow and professor of Soka University — maybe Chas can explain why the work of such a prestigious SGI employee is not communicated to the members who fund his work ???

Chas needs to study more expansively and try to comprehend the vast difference between “ God Almighty “ and the “ Eternal Buddha”—

Sakyamuni is not claiming to be our creator - the arbiter of our destiny who extracts worship from fear — saying this Threefold world is his “ domain “ is the reality of our benefit of his enlightenment - Sakyamuni is also our teacher NOT our “warden “ — and sought to share the means to attain perfect enlightenment— unlike “ God Almighty “ who is described as “ perfection we can never attain”— etc, etc

Maybe Chas will read home grown scholarly works and correct his wackadoodle errors ?
Maybe Chas can spend his precious time opening the eyes of his Ikeda-not cohorts , or rather , doing skakubuku on his own turf‼️

~ Katie

[Katie Higgins]

Chas should publish the refutation letter he writes to the SGI's OWN professor!

[Chas.]

I would defer to Nichiren Daishonin's views over those of the the good professor, Kan'no.

1. Nichiren Daishonin declared that the Gohonzon is "the supreme object of devotion in all of Jambudvipa" [1] and not statues of Shakyamuni Buddha. On the Gohonzon, Shakyamuni is prominent on the top row, but not more prominent than Many Treasures/Taho or the Four Bodhisattvas (meaning us, the Bodhisattvas of the Earth.) However, vastly more prominent on the Gohonzon is Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo, which centrally dominates everything else, and Nichiren's name at the bottom as the Buddha of the Latter Day of the Law, who is the one chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo and manifesting the critical moment of the ceremony of the air, where the Bodhisattvas of the Earth make their Kosen Rufu vow. This is all proved by inspection of the Gohonzon.

[1]
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/40#para-16

2. Nichiren Daishonin declared that the "actual name of the entity" is "Myoho-Renge" [2], stating that name no less than sixteen times in that Gosho. This means that the "actual name" of the entity IS NOT Shakyamuni Buddha (and that we should not chant Nam-Shakyamuni-Butsu like the Nembutsu do), and that the actual name of the entity IS NOT Nichiren Daishonin (and that we should not chant Nam-Nichiren-Butsu, either,) nor ANY OTHER NAME BUT "Myoho-Renge" (which is why we chant Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo as our primary practice.)

[2]
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/47#para-31

3. The good professor's views are furthermore in conflict with the Lotus Sutra, where Shakyamuni Buddha himself declares that he had 15 older brothers and a father and grandfather doing exactly as he did before and concurrently with him [3, 4] and that all of his prominent disciples are predicted to do exactly as he does later, as well as the Dragon King's Daughter and his worst enemy, Devadatta (too many references to cite.) Nichiren Daishonin would never, ever hold or voice a view that was so easily refuted by Shakyamuni Buddha in so many places in the Lotus Sutra itself, the Buddha's highest teaching. Nikko Shonin and Nichimoku Shonin would have immediately pointed out his error in a pointed question, and that's the meaning of true loyalty of the disciple towards the mentor, as Nichiren Daishonin demonstrated with Dōzen-bō.

[3]
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/lsoc/Content/7#para-35
[4]
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/lsoc/Content/7#para-282

Katie refuted by Nichiren Daishonin once again.

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

It is your SGI and the huge diversion from the work of scholars in your own “sect” that is at issue Chas.

Wonder how you missed that ?

~ Katie

[Chas.]

On Wednesday, November 1, 2017 at 10:59:39 AM UTC-7, Katie Higgins wrote:
> Poor form Chas !!
>
> This is a reputable scholar who publishes his work in affiliation with SGI- Your sophomoric display here in response to this particular scholar’s work is shameful .
>
> Perhaps your concern for the true teachings does not extend beyond the confines of your small ego after all ?
>
> ~ Katie

My response is hardly sophomoric, and your fallacious reasoning exposes your utter lack of credibility as a shill for Nichiren Shu.

My 4 points HAVE NOT BEEN ANSWERED BY YOU:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren/LTmXQh_gvfM/2829EsDbAwAJ

Nor will they be, there is no viable construct supporting your distortions of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra into a dehumanizing deification of Shakyamuni as God Almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth like Jehovah or as a man-God like Jesus Christ. Statue-worshiping idolatry IS NOT Buddhism, it is an outrageous and insupportable attack on the Lotus Sutra itself.

1. Nichiren Daishonin's Gosho refutes this idolatry directly ("Myoho-Renge" is "the actual name of the entity".)

2. The Lotus Sutra refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (In the past, 15 elder brothers, father and grandfather, and in the future his disciples and even Devadatta: all are great Buddhas just like him.)

3. The Gohonzon refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (the prominence of "Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo Nichiren" over all other entities, Nichiren being the person who is chanting and raising the banner of Myoho.)

4. Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (we chant neither Nam-Shakyamuni-Butsu, nor Nam-Nichiren-Butsu.)

I really do like your tactic of falsely defending an SGI academic. You and Putin's Internet Research Agency (IRA) operate similarly in your utter intellectual dishonesty. I don't really have a good opinion of the lying Commies, and those who operate similarly.

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

Let's first establish the identity and credentials of Hiroshi Kanno:

http://www.iop.or.jp/About-SrResearchFellows.html

Now, for those who are interested in the degree of divergence from the work of SGI affiliated Buddhist scholar and the hobo doctrines Chas propagates here, I suggest you note Professor Kanno's credentials and read his SGI sanctioned publications.

Your Gakkai sanctioned professor has read Nichiren's writings, Chas. If you cannot refute him directly, why not just inform your senior leaders of your "concerns" about the publication of articles paid for with members' $$, that totally REFUTE SGI-USA doctrines?

Or maybe the senior leadership of SGI-USA should be made aware that you are demeaning the Vice Director of the Institute of Oriental Philosophy, founded by the SGI !!

The SGI academic in question can defend, himself, Chas.

~Katie

[Chas.]

I demean no one by correcting their error. If you think I need reporting to the SGI, please follow your instincts.

Your fallacious arguments regarding the lofty position and laurels laid upon the academics that I correct is not new. John Locke refuted that fallacy (known as "argument from authority", also called an "appeal to authority", or the "argumentum ad verecundiam" - wikipedia) in general in 1690:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essay_Concerning_Human_Understanding
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

Nichiren Daishonin, quoting Shakyamuni Buddha from the Nirvana Sutra makes the case against that line of reasoning in a profoundly eternal way:

From "The Opening of the Eyes", WND I, p. 263:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/30#para-237

... I must observe sadly that, although it would be simple
... enough to point out the error of the views propounded by
... these men, if I did so, the people of today would not even
... look in my direction. They would go on in their erroneous
... ways and, in the end, would slander me to the ruler of the
... country and put my life in jeopardy. NEVERTHELESS, OUR
... MERCIFUL FATHER SHAKYAMUNI BUDDHA, WHEN HE FACED HIS END IN
... THE GROVE OF SAL TREES, STATED AS HIS DYING INSTRUCTIONS
... THAT WE ARE TO “RELY ON THE LAW AND NOT UPON PERSONS.” “NOT
... RELYING UPON PERSONS” MEANS THAT WHEN PERSONS OF THE FIRST,
... SECOND, THIRD, AND FOURTH RANKS PREACH, EVEN THOUGH THEY
... ARE BODHISATTVAS SUCH AS UNIVERSAL WORTHY AND MANJUSHRĪ WHO
... HAVE ATTAINED THE STAGE OF NEAR-PERFECT ENLIGHTENMENT, IF
... THEY DO NOT PREACH WITH THE SUTRA IN HAND, THEN THEY ARE
... NOT TO BE ACCEPTED.

Since I quoted the Lotus Sutra, the Gosho, and referenced BOTH Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo and the Gohonzon in refuting you (and anyone else you might quote to buttress your fallacious reasoning,) I am having "the sutra in hand."

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

Interesting to note the consensus amongst scholars who read Nichiren’s complete writings - they all agree that Nichiren’s teachings are based solely on Shakyamuni’s Lotus Sutra- even the scholars who are affiliated with SGI.

Funny how Chas claims superior understanding when the evidence is conclusive - Chas is following the same brand of heretical hobos that Ricky, Chas and Noel have believed .

The poison has penetrated deeply -

~ Katie

[Chas.]

You hide behind the Lotus Sutra even when it refutes you directly:

Once, again, my 4 points HAVE NOT BEEN ANSWERED BY YOU:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren/jeDhDwSGoFE/hob7oeYfBAAJ

Nor will they be, since there is no viable construct supporting your distortions of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra into a dehumanizing deification of Shakyamuni as God Almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth like Jehovah or as a man-God like Jesus Christ. Statue-worshiping idolatry IS NOT Buddhism, it is an outrageous and insupportable attack on the Lotus Sutra itself.

(1.) Nichiren Daishonin's Gosho refutes this idolatry directly ("Myoho-Renge" is "the actual name of the entity".)

(2.) The Lotus Sutra refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (In the past, 15 elder brothers, father and grandfather, and in the future his disciples and even Devadatta: all are great Buddhas just like him.)

(3.) The Gohonzon refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (the prominence of "Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo Nichiren" over all other entities, Nichiren being the person who is chanting and raising the banner of Myoho.)

(4.) Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (we chant neither Nam-Shakyamuni-Butsu, nor Nam-Nichiren-Butsu.)

I really do dislike your tactic of falsely defending an SGI academic (the SGI which you hate with a bitter and jealous passion.) You and Putin's Internet Research Agency (IRA) operate similarly in your utter intellectual dishonesty. I don't really have a good opinion of the lying Commies, and those who operate similarly.

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

“The ultimate ignorance is the rejection of something you know nothing about yet refuse to investigate.”

You hobos distinguish yourselves — the Nichiten tradition of practicing Shakyamuni’s Lotus Sutra is grounded in scripture. It is clear you have not made it past the first hurdle !!

~Katie

[Chas.]

On Saturday, November 4, 2017 at 6:44:36 PM UTC-7, Katie Higgins wrote:
> Interesting to note the consensus amongst scholars who read Nichiren’s complete writings - they all agree that Nichiren’s teachings are based solely on Shakyamuni’s Lotus Sutra- even the scholars who are affiliated with SGI.
>
> Funny how Chas claims superior understanding when the evidence is conclusive - Chas is following the same brand of heretical hobos that Ricky, Chas and Noel have believed .
>
> The poison has penetrated deeply -
>
> ~ Katie

Katie, you hide behind the Lotus Sutra even when it refutes you directly:

Now again, my 4 points HAVE NOT BEEN ANSWERED BY YOU:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren/jeDhDwSGoFE/hob7oeYfBAAJ

Nor will they ever be, since there is no viable construct supporting your distortions of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra into a dehumanizing deification of Shakyamuni as God Almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth like Jehovah or as a man-God like Jesus Christ. Statue-worshiping idolatry IS NOT Buddhism, it is an outrageous and insupportable attack on the Lotus Sutra itself.

[1.] Nichiren Daishonin's Gosho refutes this idolatry directly ("Myoho-Renge" is "the actual name of the entity".)

[2.] The Lotus Sutra refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (In the past, 15 elder brothers, father and grandfather, and in the future his disciples and even Devadatta: all are great Buddhas just like him.)

[3.] The Gohonzon refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (the prominence of "Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo Nichiren" over all other entities, Nichiren being the person who is chanting and raising the banner of Myoho.)

[4.] Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (we chant neither Nam-Shakyamuni-Butsu, nor Nam-Nichiren-Butsu.)

I sincerely do dislike your tactic of falsely defending an SGI academic (the SGI which you hate with a bitter and jealous passion.) You and Putin's Internet Research Agency (IRA) operate similarly in your utter intellectual dishonesty. I don't really have a good opinion of the lying Commies, and those who operate similarly.

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

Chas cannot refute what he does not read / investigate -/ hot air / no substance- typical arbn hobo 😁

~ Katie

[Chas.]

On Sunday, November 5, 2017 at 12:05:33 PM UTC-8, Katie Higgins wrote:
> Chas cannot refute what he does not read / investigate -/ hot air / no substance- typical arbn hobo 😁
>
> ~ Katie

Katie, you cannot refute the questions you directly ignore. And I will not be deflected from getting direct answers from you on the four questions by any foolish device you might throw my way.

Now once again, my 4 points HAVE NOT BEEN ANSWERED BY YOU:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren/jeDhDwSGoFE/hob7oeYfBAAJ

An I do not believe they will ever be, since there is no viable construct supporting your distortions of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra into a dehumanizing deification of Shakyamuni as God Almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth like Jehovah or as a man-God like Jesus Christ. Statue-worshiping idolatry IS NOT Buddhism, it is an outrageous and insupportable attack on the Lotus Sutra itself.

-1. Nichiren Daishonin's Gosho refutes this idolatry directly ("Myoho-Renge" is "the actual name of the entity".)

-2. The Lotus Sutra refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (In the past, 15 elder brothers, father and grandfather, and in the future his disciples and even Devadatta: all are great Buddhas just like him.)

-3. The Gohonzon refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (the prominence of "Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo Nichiren" over all other entities, Nichiren being the common mortal who is chanting and raising the banner of Myoho.)

-4. Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (we chant neither Nam-Shakyamuni-Butsu, nor Nam-Nichiren-Butsu.)

I sincerely do intensely dislike your dishonorable tactic of falsely defending an SGI academic (the SGI which you hate with a bitter and jealous passion.) You and Putin's Internet Research Agency (IRA) operate similarly in your utter intellectual dishonesty. I don't really have a good opinion of the lying Commies, and those who operate similarly.

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

The TOPIC of interest in a religious debate ids DOCTRINE-- I have challenged your doctrine of the Three Treasures, in which you claim Nichiren holds the position of "Original Buddha"

I have offered you writings from a SGI "Buddhist Scholar", one of many who are experts in the study of Nichiren's writings, that clearly show you are in error: Shakyamuni is the Eternal Buddha.

If you cannot address even the writings of an affiliate of the SGI-- ; if you cannot stay on TOPIC, I have nothing further to say to you. Most of what appears on this board is the petty small minded ego musings of ignorant fools!

~Katie

[Chas.]

Nichiren Daishonin did not keep the status of all people, that the common mortal is the true Buddha, a secret Katie.

You keep getting lost in the fake argument that I deify Nichiren Daishonin while you correctly deify Shakyamuni in your statue-worshiping idolatry.

Deification of ANYONE is dehumanizing and wrong.

As Nichiren Daishonin declares in the "Entity of the Mystic Law Gosho" the actual name of the entity is "Myoho-Renge".

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

Nichirdnd major writings contain no such reference -/ not does this Tendai . Hongaku shiso teaching appear in the majority of his writings -

Intelligent people would suspect something is fishy with the small “corpus “ you embrace -/ especially since the teachings in your little stack of writings produce doctrines that contradict Nichiren and the Lotus Sutra.

Too complicated for your “common mortal buddha “ mind to grasp ?? LOL!

~ Katie

[Chas.]

My 4 points HAVE NOT BEEN ANSWERED BY YOU.

And I think they will not be, because there is no viable construct supporting your distortions of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra into a dehumanizing deification of Shakyamuni as God Almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth like Jehovah or as a man-God like Jesus Christ. Statue-worshiping idolatry IS NOT Buddhism, it is an outrageous and insupportable attack on the Lotus Sutra itself.

1. Nichiren Daishonin's own golden words in the Gosho refute your idolatry of Shakyamuni directly ("Myoho-Renge" is "the actual name of the entity", not Shakyamuni or Nichiren Daishonin.)

2. The Lotus Sutra refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (In the past, 15 elder brothers, father and grandfather, and in the future his disciples and even Devadatta: all are great Buddhas just like Shakyamuni.) These are his golden words you deny.

3. The Gohonzon refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (the prominence of "Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo Nichiren" over all other entities, Nichiren being the common mortal who is chanting and raising the banner of Myoho.)

4. Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (we chant neither Nam-Shakyamuni-Butsu, nor Nam-Nichiren-Butsu.) This is what you chant every day, Katie Higgins, even though you deny the truth of it.

You really need to wise up and stop deflecting away from this central point of faith, Katie Higgins.

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

Where have you been Chas? I have shared tons of evidence establishing Shakyamuni as the Treasure of the Buddha/ Nichiren’s doctrine which accords perfectly with the portions of the Lotus Sutra I recite everyday!

You are incorrigible !! Even your own SGI scholar Hiroshi Kanno concludes that Shakyamuni is the Eternal Buddha.

You won’t study the true teachings or the writings of those who have. You are negligent in study and adamant about displaying your ignorance .

The signature SGI/NST arrogant arguments are being smashed — by truth. You show your hobo nature denying truth and clinging to meager benefits from heretical practice .


~ Katie

[Chas.]

On Wednesday, November 8, 2017 at 4:51:37 AM UTC-8, Katie Higgins wrote:
> Your four points have been refuted -
>
> First and foremost Shakyamuni Buddha is the Treasure of the Buddha in Nichiren’s doctrine - Nichiren makes this clear in his Major writings .
>
> Evidence has also been presented that shows consensus amongst Buddhist scholars even SGI’’s Hiroshi Kanno— Shakyamuni is the Eternal Buddha -
>
> When you are able to accept and believe this. True doctrine of Nichiren’s practiced of Shakyamuni’s Lotus Sutra , you will embark for the first time on the path of following Nichiren!
>
> Until then , Chas, you are a hobo - confusing snf corrupting what Nichiren himself wrote, taught and lived -/ in truth you would be ashamed of yourself if you hadn’t lost your mind to distorted faith —
>
> , Katie

Nah.

As far as Dr. Kanno and others in the SGI holding his views? We are a big tent, holding much diversity in views with a single practice: (1) daimoku and gongyo to the Gohonzon, (2) shakubuku, activities and member care, and (3) study of the true teachings and the Gosho.

There are many statue-worshiping Nichiren Buddhists who think that Shakyamuni is God Almighty and everyone ought to bow down to him and his images, even while they bow down as well to the Gohonzon and put the lie to their views by chanting the actual eternal name of the entity, "Myoho-Renge" (you, for instance.) And some of those believing that Shakyamuni is the next Great Jehovah and synonymous with the Judeo-Christic-Islamic Yahweh-Elohim/Trinity/Allah are SGI members.

Bless their hearts, they will wise up at some point, and so will you. Until that time at least they are inside the tent and not outside the tent pissing in, like you lot.

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

Doesn’t cut it Chas . Erroneous doctrines are the main focus for Nichiren’s practice of skakubuku - you are admitting you have no sense of obligation to uphold the Lotus Sutra- you aren’t a follower of Nichiren - that much is certain .

Recall Nichiren prefaced his challenge to all other schools of Buddhism by stating emphatically that they had ALL abandoned Shakyamuni Buddha -/ you , too , have adopted another Buddha and co-opted the Buddha’s teaching , calling it “ BUDDHA-True entity “- no different than the heretical Tendai slanderers -/

You had better cut short you leisure time and your sleep until you are able to grasp the corrrct teaching -/ or regret it for the next 10,000 years — paraphrasing Nichiren for you .

< Katie

[Chas.]

Once again, my 4 points HAVE NOT BEEN ANSWERED BY YOU.

And I think they will never be, because there is no viable construct supporting your distortions of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra into a dehumanizing deification of Shakyamuni as God Almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth like Jehovah or as a man-God like Jesus Christ. Statue-worshiping idolatry IS NOT Buddhism, it is an outrageous and insupportable attack on the Lotus Sutra itself.

[1.] Nichiren Daishonin's own golden words in the Gosho refute your idolatry of Shakyamuni directly ("Myoho-Renge" is "the actual name of the entity", not Shakyamuni or Nichiren Daishonin.)

[2.] The Lotus Sutra refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (In the past, 15 elder brothers, father and grandfather, and in the future his disciples and even Devadatta: all are great Buddhas just like Shakyamuni.) These are his golden words you deny.

[3.] The Gohonzon refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (the prominence of "Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo Nichiren" over all other entities, Nichiren being the common mortal who is chanting and raising the banner of Myoho.)

[4.] Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (we chant neither Nam-Shakyamuni-Butsu, nor Nam-Nichiren-Butsu.) This is what you chant every day, Katie Higgins, even though you deny the truth of it.

You truly need to wise up and stop deflecting away from this central point of faith, Katie Higgins.

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

I’m not going to repost links to my responses to your 4 points. The salient response is that you have been shown your error regarding the True Buddha. Failing to acknowledge that, you aren’t s follower of Nichiren- and you don’t even respect your own branded SGI Buddhist scholars.

You have been misled -. But you now willfully remain ignorant - too lazy to investigate the challenges to your views . The polar pppodite of Nichiren!

In Nichiren’s time Tendai monks favored other Buddha’s - now you and Shoshu follow suit- same disregard of the Eternal Buddha. Little do you care to know -the consistent thread is Tendai influence -/ your doctrines were hatched 100 + years after Nichiren’s passing !

All serious minds seekers of the Buddha’s teachings will have no trouble discovering what you are too lazy to pursue .

Have it your way ,Chas - practice according to your preferences , your comfort level-. Your error is calling what you believe, Nichiren’s teachings .

~ Katie

[Chas.]

Katie Higgins Cannot Deflect Her Way Out Of Being Refuted By Shakyamuni, Nichiren Daishonin, the Gohonzon and the Daimoku +

No, no, no, you don't get off that easy.

Your "answers" come down to one simplistic error: that there are thousands of references to Shakyamuni as the one great eternal Buddha by Nichiren Daishonin, which you all in Nichiren Shu have taken as a fine reason for the dehumanizing deification of that poor man as a man-God like Jesus or as God Almighty Creator of Heaven and Earth like Jehovah: which means we need to erect statues of HIM and kneel and slobber over HIS GREATNESS until our expiration.

THAT is what you think Nichiren Daishonin intended from your infantile rhetorical perspective. And to summarize: that is the side-product of "expedient means" in a nutshell.

Nichiren Daishonin had no choice but to speak in the common vernacular of Buddhism in the time to the common people who spoke and read it: to refer to the eternal Buddha and juxtapose his true teachings in the Lotus Sutra against "other Buddhas" in the competition in the marketplace of Buddhist ideas, he had no choice but to compare the Great Shakyamuni and the Lotus Sutra against the evils of True Word's Mahavairochana, or Nembutsu's Amida, or the Medicine Master's (Reiki) Yakushi-kyo, or the Zen Void which is the complete breakdown of the eternal Buddha and the destruction of the true teachings.

In the context of that battle, he rightly chose that talking about "Myoho-Renge" as the eternal Buddha in the common vernacular of Buddhist rhetorical speech to common people would be to completely abandon all hope of creating a Sangha. No one would hear a single word of what he had to say.

Of course, when speaking to his academic equal, the former Tendai monk Sairen-bō Nichijō, whom he converted when they were both confined to Sado, he could speak about the actual name of the entity and "Myoho-Renge", in the "Entity of the Mystic Law" Gosho.

The side effect of this expedient means is the open sore of misled followers of Nichiren Daishonin and misleading traitorous priests (Nichiren Shu) that would distort his Buddhism after his death into a cult of statue-worshiping idolatry of Shakyamuni.

That open sore on Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra is you: Katie Higgins.

That problem, which he foresaw, would become Nikko Shonin and Nichimoku Shonin's problem, which they solved by being a team: Nichimoku Shonin as High Priest of the Fuji School during the 43 years from 1290-1333, while Nikko Shonin taught the youth.

And that problem is now the SGI's and mine, talking to completely deluded persons such as yourself. To have to abandon dialogue and take up polemics.

This is why it is important to set aside expedient means at the first opportunity (which Nikko Shonin did and then later, Nichikan Shonin rooted out the statue worshipers again.)

Hence, once again, my 4 points HAVE NOT BEEN ANSWERED BY YOU.

And I think they might never be, because there is no viable construct supporting your distortions of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra into a dehumanizing deification of Shakyamuni as God Almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth like Jehovah or as a man-God like Jesus Christ. Statue-worshiping idolatry IS NOT Buddhism, it is an outrageous and insupportable attack on the Lotus Sutra itself.

{1.} Nichiren Daishonin's own golden words in the Gosho refute your idolatry of Shakyamuni directly ("Myoho-Renge" is "the actual name of the entity", not Shakyamuni or Nichiren Daishonin.)

{2.} The Lotus Sutra refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (In the past, 15 elder brothers, father and grandfather, and in the future his disciples and even Devadatta: all are great Buddhas just like Shakyamuni.) These are his golden words you deny.

{3.} The Gohonzon refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (the prominence of "Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo Nichiren" over all other entities, Nichiren being the common mortal who is chanting and raising the banner of Myoho.)

{4.} Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (we chant neither Nam-Shakyamuni-Butsu, nor Nam-Nichiren-Butsu.) This is what you chant every day, Katie Higgins, even though you deny the truth of it.

You simply need to wise up and stop deflecting away from this central point of faith, Katie Higgins.

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

Your SGI Guy , Hiroshi Kanno also says Shakyamuni is the Eternal Buddha - He reads and studies Nichiren’s writings . Guess you still don’t , Chas 😬

~ Katie

[Chas.]

On Friday, November 10, 2017 at 1:02:12 AM UTC-8, Katie Higgins wrote:
> Your SGI Guy , Hiroshi Kanno also says Shakyamuni is the Eternal Buddha - He reads and studies Nichiren’s writings . Guess you still don’t , Chas 😬
>
> ~ Katie

I don't necessarily agree with everyone under the SGI according to all their views of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra, as I said: it's a big umbrella and the topic is difficult. So much expedient means has been employed in the past, that it's simply hard to perceive the truth. However, analysis is my specialty. When I was an undergraduate, I scored in the 90s percentile on all four parts of the GRE, but I scored in the 99th percentile on the analysis part. There is no 100th percentile. I may not be a very nice person, but I have the virtue of being right, once I hack my way through the forest of confused rhetoric that surrounds most of everything.

And this widespread confusion is true in every field of endeavor right now. The particle physics community is going through fits because the insiders in the academy led by Princeton's Institute for Advanced Study, which is led Edward Witten, are 100% totally committed to String Theory (and its children Supergravity, Superstrings, Cosmic Inflation, the Multiverse and other superstitious nonsense) are completely in control of who gets to be appointed to a research position in the top six schools: and all recent experimental work at CERN and elsewhere is murdering their "theories" right and left. It is all hogwash and that can be understood by looking at the community of particle physics outsiders led by Peter Woit of "Not Even Wrong" fame throwing brickbats at them.

So the top academics in every field behaving badly is the new standard, why should Buddhism be any different?

Nevertheless, I will continue to confront you, Katie Higgins, with the inconvenient truth that, once again, my 4 points HAVE NOT BEEN ANSWERED BY YOU. And deflecting with this type of nonsense will not change that fact.

And I think they might not ever be, because there is no viable construct supporting your distortions of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra into a dehumanizing deification of Shakyamuni as God Almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth like Jehovah or as a man-God like Jesus Christ. Statue-worshiping idolatry IS NOT Buddhism, it is an outrageous and insupportable attack on the Lotus Sutra itself.

-> 1: Nichiren Daishonin's own golden words in the Gosho refute your idolatry of Shakyamuni directly ("Myoho-Renge" is "the actual name of the entity", not Shakyamuni or Nichiren Daishonin.)

-> 2: The Lotus Sutra refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (In the past, 15 elder brothers, father and grandfather, and in the future his disciples and even Devadatta: all are great Buddhas just like Shakyamuni.) These are his golden words you deny.

-> 3: The Gohonzon refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (the prominence of "Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo Nichiren" over all other entities, Nichiren being the common mortal who is chanting and raising the banner of Myoho.)

-> 4: Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (we chant neither Nam-Shakyamuni-Butsu, nor Nam-Nichiren-Butsu.) This is what you chant every day, Katie Higgins, even though you deny the truth of it.

You simply need to focus on these points and stop deflecting away from this central point of faith, Katie Higgins.

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

Since your views on the Buddha, the teaching and the order vary so greatly from scholars who read Nichiren’s collective writings in their entirety it’s beginning to look like you are missing something —

I’ve been reading the Gosho for 29 years and have no doubt that Shakyamuni is the Eternal Buddha - and upholding the Lotus Sutra is the teaching — Nichiren taught us the practice for this evil age -the practice of upholding the Lotus Sutra — the story of how he did this is documented in his own words . Maybe today you will take the first step toward discovering the true teachings !

I’m bored with your Gakkai cliff notes of corrupted Gosho 😴

~ Katie

[Noel]

Just because he presently says this doesn't mean its true for everyone. You believe what he says because it aligns with your beliefs then you use him to buffer those beliefs.

When will you realize that Shakyamuni's enlightenment is eternal as this is the nature of enlightenment and the persons that become enlightened are only temporary like transient phenomena. Even if Shakyamuni's enlightenment lasts trillions of kalpas it's just a blink in eternity that is of the same quality that we access right here right now so never mind wanting to be a full blown Buddha for all eternity like the fictitious Shakyamuni Buddha just be the Buddha that you already are in this present moment and have great joy in that

[Katie Higgins]

There is no 'ficticious" Shakyamuni according to Nichiren's writings. Your understanding comes from 'other sources"-- no doubt about it.

Hiroshi Kanno, is in accord with other scholars who thoroughly study Nichiren-- naturally, you would not be amongst those who grasp the significance of scholarly research. - again, you gravitate to "other sources" and are infatuated with hongaku shiso- being a proud and boastful hobo !

The interesting point Professor Kanno's introduction here is making, is that EVEN within the SGI there are a few who have conducted pure research and STILL there is no evidence that it impacts the SGI's propagation of erroneous doctrines. Kanno himself is not confronting the SGI leadership about their errors-- just a "big tent " of differing views-- much like the 8 schools Nichiren refuted at the risk of his own life!

"Never mind wanting to be a full blown Buddha?", you say, Noel-- well that explains why you have not yet entered the path to attaining Buddhahood. My suspicions are confirmed!!

~Katie

[Chas.]

Baloney. You pedantically spout from a non-existent podium of knowledge.

Clearly you are ignoring Nichiren Daishonin and Shakyamuni and common sense, too.

"Buddhism is reason." - Hero of the World Gosho, WND I, p. 839.

Your supercilious posture does not grant you one whit of any kind of credit for your arguments issued from Nurse Cranky. They remain infantile and simplistic analysis of literal readings and appeal to authority, without any effective argument to support what you are saying, other than that Head Nurse pose. (Your ward must live in fear!)

The fact remains that you simply cannot respond to these 4 simple points without either abandoning any shred of honesty or your distorted views.

I will not be distracted from this point, even if you bring in the whole of the SGI to counter me on this. You must respond!
__________________________________________________________

I will continue to confront you, Katie Higgins, with the inconvenient truth that my 4 points HAVE NOT BEEN ANSWERED BY YOU (and probably cannot.) And deflecting with this type of nonsense will not change that fact.

The reason that I think they might not ever be answered, is because there is no viable construct supporting your distortions of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra into a dehumanizing deification of Shakyamuni as God Almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth like Jehovah or as a man-God like Jesus Christ. Statue-worshiping idolatry IS NOT Buddhism, it is an outrageous and insupportable attack on the Lotus Sutra itself.

-> 1) Nichiren Daishonin's own golden words in the Gosho refute your idolatry of Shakyamuni directly ("Myoho-Renge" is "the actual name of the entity", not Shakyamuni or Nichiren Daishonin.)

-> 2) The Lotus Sutra refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (In the past, 15 elder brothers, father and grandfather, and in the future his disciples and even Devadatta: all are great Buddhas just like Shakyamuni.) These are his golden words you deny.

-> 3) The Gohonzon refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (the prominence of "Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo Nichiren" over all other entities, Nichiren being the common mortal who is chanting and raising the banner of Myoho.)

-> 4) Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (we chant neither Nam-Shakyamuni-Butsu, nor Nam-Nichiren-Butsu.) This is what you chant every day, Katie Higgins, even though you deny the truth of it.

You really need to focus on these points and stop deflecting away from this central point of distorted faith, Katie Higgins.

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

The knowledge exists for those who aren’t arrogant and lazy 😬

I posted links , Chas- sited sources - your negligence is well documented .

~ Katie

[Chas.]

Deflecting the deflection won't work either, Katie Higgins. You are the one who is busted for a complete inability to address my four points, which you continue to dance around:

However, I will continue to confront you, Katie Higgins, with the inconvenient truth that, once again, my 4 points HAVE NOT BEEN ANSWERED BY YOU. And deflecting with this type of nonsense will not change that fact.

It is possible that these questions might not ever be answered honestly, because there is no viable construct supporting your distortions of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra into a dehumanizing deification of Shakyamuni as God Almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth like Jehovah or as a man-God like Jesus Christ. Statue-worshiping idolatry IS NOT Buddhism, it is an outrageous and insupportable attack on the Lotus Sutra itself.

[1:] Nichiren Daishonin's own golden words in the Gosho refute your idolatry of Shakyamuni directly ("Myoho-Renge" is "the actual name of the entity", not Shakyamuni or Nichiren Daishonin.)

[2:] The Lotus Sutra refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (In the past, 15 elder brothers, father and grandfather, and in the future his disciples and even Devadatta: all are great Buddhas just like Shakyamuni.) These are his golden words you deny.

[3:] The Gohonzon refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (the prominence of "Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo Nichiren" over all other entities, Nichiren being the common mortal who is chanting and raising the banner of Myoho.)

[4:] Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (we chant neither Nam-Shakyamuni-Butsu, nor Nam-Nichiren-Butsu.) This is what you chant every day, Katie Higgins, even though you deny the truth of it.

You simply have to focus on these points and stop deflecting away from this central point of your distorted faith, Katie Higgins.

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

Your points are ludicrous, Chas - you are a victim of indoctrination ; refuse to investigate the matter / and continue to harass me with your ignorance .

So long as I provide credible sources and info that others can use to investigate for themselves , I am satisfied.

I have addressed your misguided discourse numerous times - you aren’t going to get off your lazy behind and study - even a scholar from your own SGI, Hiroshi Kanno- so, there is nothing more I can say — I don’t waste time arguing with lazy, arrogant hobos.

~ Katie

[Chas.]

On Monday, November 13, 2017 at 2:09:13 AM UTC-8, daisie...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, October 1, 2017 at 8:06:48 PM UTC-7, Mark Rogow wrote:
> > https://www.reddit.com/r/sgiwhistleblowers/comments/735sgn/soka_gakkai_malaysia_open_leadership_revolt/
>
> No offense but TOO LIBERAL? You stole a Gohonzon from
> a temple which it was given to and it's not an SGI Gohonzon.
> You removed the proof that it was made by NST, off the Gohonzon
> and then gave it to SGI members after NST told SGI that it could
> not continue as a lay organization, and this is too cautious or
> too liberal? It's stealing!
>
> You say you follow Nichiren Daishonin but Nichiren Daishonin
> stole no one's Gohonzon when he made his own religion. Did he?
>
> If you were not NST, then you were stealing! Plain and simple!
> You stole an NST Gohonzon. Why don't you make your own Gohonzon,
> an Ikeda Gohonzon, if you think your Buddhism is so much more
> correct or best for everyone? I am urging you to slander, but
> if you are going to slander anyway, by stealing an Gohonzon
> given to NST, why not make your own Ikeda Gohonzon? SGI thinks
> it's the proper succession, anyway, so why make an NST Gohonzon
> your focus? Are you afraid to test your SGI is infallible theory?
>
> You guys crack me up!
>
> dfd

So now we have the complete lineup in play, NST, Nichiren Shu, Mark Rogow and Katie Higgins and her flying monkeys Noel, Ricky and even Denise Gold on one side and the true followers of Nichiren Daishonin in the SGI on the other side, who are not corrupted by Nichiren Shu treason against Nichiren Daishonin after his death, thievery and statue-worshiping of a falsely deified Shakyamuni as a man-God like Jesus, or God Almighty Creator of Heaven and Earth like Jehovah. BTW, this is the Nichiren Shu that propagates Nembutsu now from its temples: that's right, the Nembutsu that Nichiren Daishonin detested with his entire being, here's the evidence:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren/stHP9WGrYBg/XXiyF2_2AgAJ

I like this alignment. All of you on the Nembutsu side, opposite the SGI.

Here's the truth about the Nichikan Gohonzon from "The Untold Story of the Fuji School", as opposed to the lies from the mind of Rogow-Nembutsu:

From "The Untold History of the Fuji School," pp. 171-185:
http://sokaspirit.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/15_UHFS_Chapter_15.pdf

... On September 7, 1993, about two months short of the second
... anniversary of its excommunication by the Nichiren Shoshu
... priesthood, the SGI announced its decision to issue the
... Gohonzon to its members worldwide. It was one of the
... defining moments of the SGI’s lay Buddhist movement because
... it signaled the return of the object of devotion from the
... hold of clerical authority to its rightful heirs—ordinary
... people who practice the Daishonin’s Buddhism.
...
... Gohonzon issued by the SGI are reproduced from a Gohonzon
... transcribed by the twenty-sixth high priest, Nichikan, in
... 1720.This so-called Nichikan Gohonzon was in the possession
... of Joen-ji, a temple in Tochigi Prefecture, Japan, whose
... chief priest offered it for the Soka Gakkai’s use. That
... chief priest, Sendo Narita, had previously seceded from
... Taiseki-ji in protest to the high priest’s abusive policy
... toward the SGI. In his June 6, 1993, letter to Soka Gakkai
... President Einosuke Akiya, Chief Priest Narita writes: “The
... existing situation, in which Nikken has unjustly terminated
... the conferral of Gohonzon upon Soka Gakkai members,
... convinced me that the best and most just course—as well as
... the course that, I feel, would win the approval of the
... Daishonin— would be to enable Soka Gakkai members to
... receive Gohonzon based on this Gohonzon.”
...
... On August 23, 1993, the Association for the Reformation of
... Nichiren Shoshu and the Association of Youthful Priests
... Dedicated to the Reformation of Nichiren
... Shoshu—representing about thirty reform priests who had
... seceded from Taiseki-ji—issued a joint resolution
... supporting Narita’s proposal. In it, the reform priests
... stated:“We declare that the Soka Gakkai is qualified in
... every way to confer okatagi Gohonzon based on the Gohonzon
... transcribed by High Priest Nichikan and assert that by so
... doing the Soka Gakkai will fulfill a sacred mission
... consistent with the spirit of Nichiren Daishonin.”With the
... approval of the council and other committees, the Soka
... Gakkai decided to accept Chief Priest Narita’s proposal.
...
... Before this historic decision, conferral of the Gohonzon
... —the basis of the faith and practice of Nichiren
... Daishonin’s Buddhism—was regarded by the priesthood as the
... high priest’s prerogative, and lay believers had been long
... taught to support that view. After the excommunication in
... November 1991, many SGI members had been forced to practice
... without the Gohonzon.The priesthood had taken advantage of
... the situation and used its monopoly of the Gohonzon as
... leverage to entice Gakkai members to secede from their lay
... organization and join a temple parish.
...
... Upon learning of the Gakkai’s decision, the priesthood
... expressed its concern: “[The Soka Gakkai] will begin to
... independently bestow Gohonzons [sic], thus declaring
... complete independence from Nichiren Shoshu.” (NST News,
... Special Issue, p. 2). In the same publication, the
... priesthood also said: “The Soka Gakkai is a group that has
... been excommunicated by Nichiren Shoshu and has absolutely
... no relationship with Nichiren Shoshu” (ibid., p. 1). Those
... seemingly contradictory statements—declaring that the
... Gakkai had initiated independence, then that the
... priesthood’s prior excommunication had severed the
... relationship —demonstrate the complex anxiety the
... priesthood felt toward its former believers. The priests
... wished that even after being excommunicated, lay believers
... would still feel dependent upon their clerical
... authority.They knew that their continued prosperity may
... depend on the return of its former believers. And this
... dependence upon its excommunicated laity, whom it despises,
... has been a source of mixed feelings.
...
... Nikken’s action to deny Gohonzon to the Soka Gakkai— the
... sole organization consistently dedicated to propagation
... this century—clearly runs counter to the Daishonin’s intent
... in inscribing the Gohonzon, which he described as “the
... banner of propagation of the Lotus Sutra” (WND, 831).
...
... Because of these circumstances—and based on its sense of
... responsibility as a harmoniously united order (samgha) of
... the Daishonin’s Buddhism—the SGI decided to make Gohonzon
... available to its worldwide membership. It was a decision
... made solely to preserve the integrity of the Daishonin’s
... Buddhism by replying to the sincerity of those seeking the
... Gohonzon and, thereby, further promoting the spread of the
... teaching.
...
... Since the SGI announced its intent to confer Gohonzon, the
... priesthood has been denouncing this Gohonzon as counterfeit
... for three main reasons: 1) “It does not receive the
... sanction of the High Priest”; 2) “It is not bestowed by the
... Head Temple”; and 3) “It is arbitrarily manufactured by the
... Gakkai” (Refuting the Soka Gakkai’s “Counterfeit Object of
... Worship”: 100 Questions and Answers, compiled by the
... Nichiren Shoshu Doctrinal Research Committee. Nichiren
... Shoshu Temple, 1996, p. 12).
...
... The priesthood maintains that Gohonzon issued without the
... high priest’s eye-opening ceremony is counterfeit (NST
... News, Special Issue, p. 9). According to the priesthood,
... however, the practical meaning of the eye-opening ceremony
... apparently is not that the high priest must infuse his
... presumed spiritual power, which he claims to have inherited
... from the Daishonin, into every Gohonzon issued by the head
... temple. Rather, the eye-opening ceremony seems to mean
... being sanctioned. As the priesthood states: “Up to now, the
... Gohonzons [sic] granted to believers at the branch temples
... have all been sanctioned by the High Priest, that is, their
... eyes have been opened” (Refuting the Soka Gakkai’s
... “Counterfeit Object of Worship”: 100 Questions and Answers,
... p. 37). And: “In Nichiren Shoshu from the ancient past, the
... High Priest’s sanction was essential for everything related
... to the Gohonzon. The arbitrary copying of the Gohonzon and
... the conferral of the copies by the Gakkai today are
... unpardonable acts” (ibid., p. 39). All their arguments
... against the Nichikan Gohonzon boil down to one point:They
... are counterfeit because the high priest did not authorize
... them.
...
... The term arbitrary in the temple’s usage can only be
... interpreted to mean “in a way not according with the high
... priest’s intention,” which was essentially to punish those
... affiliated with the Gakkai by depriving them of the
... Gohonzon. However, it is the high priest’s sudden denial of
... the Gohonzon to those seeking it that better fits the
... definition of an arbitrary act.
...
... Regarding the reproduction and conferral of the Gohonzon,
... the priesthood maintains: “The only person who is able to
... transcribe the innermost enlightenment of the Dai-Gohonzon
... of the High Sanctuary is the High Priest who received the
... bestowal of the lifeblood to only a single person from the
... Daishonin.... During the seven-hundred-year history of
... Nichiren Shoshu, priests other than the High Priest, even
... if they were of eminent virtue, erudite or experts at
... calligraphy, have never transcribed the Gohonzon. However,
... there are instances where a retired High Priest transcribed
... the Gohonzon after being commissioned to do so by the
... current High Priest” (Refuting the Soka Gakkai’s
... “Counterfeit Object of Worship”: 100 Questions and Answers,
... pp. 29‒30). In a nutshell, the priesthood asserts that
... unless Gohonzon are transcribed by the high priest and
... their printing sanctioned by him, they are not legitimate
... and constitute a grave doctrinal error.
...
... The history of the Fuji School, however, contradicts this.
... There are numerous recorded instances in which priests
... other than the high priests transcribed Gohonzon since the
... earliest period of the Fuji School. According to the
... priesthood, those transcriptions of Gohonzon would be
... “unpardonable acts” since no one but the high priest can
... transcribe Gohonzon. Despite numerous records of such
... instances, however, there is no evidence of protest from
... anyone in the Fuji School, including the successive high
... priests. Its own history suggests, therefore, that the
... priesthood’s assertions lack substance.
...
... In February 1332, when Nikko and Nichimoku were still
... alive, Nissen, one of Nikko’s six main disciples,
... transcribed a Gohonzon and conferred it to one of his
... parishioners (Essential Writings of the Fuji School, vol.
... 8, p. 214). There is no record of either Nikko or Nichimoku
... opposing Nissen’s transcription.
...
... According to a document written in 1340 and attributed to
... Nichizon, one of Nikko’s disciples, Nikko instructed that
... in the Fuji School, only one designated disciple should
... transcribe Gohonzon in order to keep the “lantern of the
... Law” lit —to keep the Gohonzon available to believers
... (Complete Works of the Nichiren School, vol. 2, p. 418).
... The same document records that, after the Daishonin’s
... death, his six senior disciples started to transcribe
... Gohonzon, and there was no dispute among them about their
... right to produce transcriptions (ibid.). From those
... records, it may be surmised that Nikko made it a general
... rule that only one designated priest is to transcribe
... Gohonzon to maintain the order of the school.
...
... For this reason, it was permissible for Nissen, who resided
... in the distant province of Sanuki, to transcribe a Gohonzon
... for one of his parishioners.There was no mention of any
... mysterious or exclusive power possessed by a high priest
... that would inject the Daishonin’s soul into a transcribed
... Gohonzon. Other records further confirm this point.
...
... During the late fourteenth century, after the deaths of the
... second high priest Nikko Shonin and the third high priest
... Nichimoku in 1333, Taiseki-ji priests other than the high
... priest transcribed many Gohonzon (Essential Writings of the
... Fuji School, vol. 8). For example, Nissen transcribed two
... Gohonzon in 1337 and one in 1338. Nichigo, one of Nikko’s
... six new disciples at Omosu Seminary, transcribed two in
... 1344, two in 1345 and one in 1350. (The dates of two
... additional Gohonzon transcribed by Nichigo are unknown.) In
... 1340, Nichizon had a wooden Gohonzon made from a Gohonzon
... inscribed by Nichimoku. Nichimyo, one of Nikko’s six
... disciples at Omosu Seminary, transcribed one in 1344.
... Nichiman, Nikko’s disciple on Sado Island, transcribed one
... in 1352 and another in 1357. Nichidai, one of Nikko’s six
... new disciples at Omosu Seminary, transcribed one in 1388.
... While those Gohonzon were transcribed by priests other than
... the high priest during the tenures of the fourth high
... priest Nichido (1333‒39), the fifth high priest Nichigyo
... (1339‒65) and the sixth high priest Nichiji (1365‒1406),
... none of those high priests left any record of denouncing
... those transcriptions as unorthodox. It is especially
... noteworthy that Nichigyo never accused Nichigo, his
... adversary in a bitter land dispute over Taiseki-ji, of
... transcribing Gohonzon in an unauthorized manner and thus
... violating the high priest’s alleged prerogative.
...
... In other words, during the early days of the Fuji School
... after Nikko Shonin established Taiseki-ji and appointed
... Nichimoku as his successor in 1290, the priesthood intended
... to limit the transcription of the Gohonzon to one
... designated person for the orderly management of the Fuji
... School. However, it did not consider transcription of the
... Gohonzon by a priest other than the high priest to be a
... grave doctrinal error. For this reason, Nichiu, the ninth
... high priest, allowed branch temple chief priests to
... transcribe the Gohonzon. He states in “On Formalities”:
... “Those at branch temples who have disciples and lay patrons
... may transcribe the amulet [i.e., the Gohonzon]. However,
... they should not place their seals on it.... Those at branch
... temples who have disciples and lay patrons may transcribe
... the mandala [i.e., the Gohonzon] yet may not place their
... seal on it” (Essential Writings of the Fuji School, vol. 1,
... p. 71).
...
... Those Gohonzon transcribed by chief priests at the branch
... temples and without the transcriber’s written seal were
... considered temporary, conferred before believers received
... one transcribed by the high priest. By allowing chief
... priests to transcribe the Gohonzon, yet asking them not to
... affix their personal seals, Nichiu tried to accomplish two
... things: meeting the needs of believers who could not
... otherwise receive Gohonzon while maintaining order within
... the school regarding the transcription of the Gohonzon.
... Since Gohonzon transcribed by chief priests were considered
... temporary and usually without transcription date or name of
... a transcriber, not many of them survive today. Nonetheless,
... there are enough recorded instances to verify the Fuji
... School’s practice of transcribing Gohonzon by priests other
... than the high priest. For example, according to Jundo
... Nose’s Miscellaneous Records (Jpn Shokiroku), Nissho, a
... chief priest of a lodging temple on the head temple
... grounds, transcribed a Gohonzon for the parish of a Shinto
... shrine near the head temple in 1823 (vol. 7, p. 355). When
... Nissho transcribed this Gohonzon, the forty-ninth high
... priest Nisso and the retired forty-eighth high priest
... Nichiryo were residing at Taiseki-ji, so there was no
... immediate need for Nissho to transcribe a Gohonzon on
... behalf of the high priest. Nissho was a veteran priest at
... Taiseki-ji who served eight high priests, and he probably
... simply responded to a request from his local parish.
...
... In 1860, Nichigen, a disciple of Nissho, also transcribed a
... Gohonzon for one of his parishioners (Miscellaneous
... Records, vol. 7, p. 242). The dates and the transcriber’s
... name for this Gohonzon appear on the back probably because
... it was customary that only the high priest place his seal
... on the Gohonzon. Both Nissho and his disciple Nichigen were
... high-ranking priests at Taiseki-ji but did not become high
... priests. Nevertheless, they still transcribed Gohonzon and
... conferred them on their parishioners.
...
... There are also records of Gohonzon whose transcribers are
... unknown. Since the high priest customarily placed his seal
... on Gohonzon he transcribed, it is certain that someone
... other than a high priest transcribed these Gohonzon. In
... 1760, during the tenure of the thirty-third high priest
... Nichigen, someone other than the high priest transcribed a
... Gohonzon dedicated to a Shinto deity and kept it at
... Honjo-ji, a branch temple of Taiseki-ji (Miscellaneous
... Records , vol. 7, p. 226).
...
... As a side note, during the eighteenth century, many
... Gohonzon were transcribed for Shinto shrines near
... Taiseki-ji and its other branch temples, supposedly to call
... forth the power of Shinto deities dwelling there. Often
... these Gohonzon, many of which were transcribed by high
... priests, were requested by lay parishioners for a Shinto
... shrine in their home village. Such parishioners rarely
... understood the tenets of the Daishonin’s Buddhism
... concerning the Gohonzon, and mixed their practice of
... Shintoism with other forms of Buddhism. The priests who
... transcribed Gohonzon for this purpose must surely have
... known this and that it violated the guidelines set down by
... Nikko Shonin, the founder of the Fuji School. One such
... Gohonzon, for example, bears the inscription, “Bestowed to
... summon forth the body of the god of the Tenman Shrine.”
... Nevertheless, the doctrinal legitimacy of these “Shinto
... Shrine” Gohonzon was never questioned.
...
... There were two Taiseki-ji priests who became chief priests
... of Myoren-ji, a prominent old temple near Taiseki-ji, who
... transcribed Gohonzon. On March 1, 1707, Nichiju became the
... twenty-fourth chief priest of Myoren-ji. From that time
... until 1727, when he left his position at Myoren-ji, he
... continued to transcribe Gohonzon for his parishioners and
... the chief priests of branch temples that belonged to
... Myorenji. (Myoren-ji and its branch temples joined Nichiren
... Shoshu, under the head temple Taiseki-ji, in 1950. Before
... that, it was regarded as one of the eight head temples of
... the Fuji School that maintained its own branch
... temples.Taisekiji was also one of these eight.)
...
... According to one source, Nichiju transcribed eleven
... Gohonzon while he was chief priest of Myoren-ji (Ideas of
... the Fuji School [Jpn Fuji Monryu Shiko], ed. Mitsuaki
... Osawa; no. 4, p. 9). During this time, Nichiei
... (twenty-fourth), Nichiyu (twenty-fifth), Nichikan
... (twenty-sixth), Nichiyo (twenty-seventh) and Nissho
... (twenty-eighth) became high priests successively at
... Taiseki-ji, but none of them criticized Nichiju for
... transcribing Gohonzon. Neither was Nichiju excommunicated
... by his teacher, Nichiei. Even after he went to Myoren-ji,
... Nichiju maintained friendly ties with Taiseki-ji.
...
... In 1727, when he retired, Nichiju appointed Nichiho as
... chief priest of Myoren-ji. Between 1727 and 1732, Nichiho
... transcribed Gohonzon for his parishioners. Three of them
... were recorded (Ideas of the Fuji School, no. 4, p. 10).
... After he left Myoren-ji, he returned to Taiseki-ji, and in
... 1736, the twenty-ninth high priest, Nitto, transferred the
... lineage of high priest to Nichiho, who then renamed himself
... Nitchu. There is no record of Nitchu being criticized for
... having transcribed Gohonzon before he received the lineage.
...
... Nichiju and Nitchu demonstrate the Taiseki-ji priesthood’s
... view that the transcription and conferral of the Gohonzon
... is an administrative responsibility of priests. Myoren-ji,
... as a head temple, had to meet the needs of its own parish
... and branch temples.
...
... The nineteenth high priest, Nisshun, and the twentysecond
... high priest, Nisshun (same pronunciation, but written with
... different Chinese characters), also transcribed Gohonzon
... before they assumed the post of high priest.The nineteenth
... high priest became the chief priest of Taiseki-ji in the
... summer of 1641 without receiving the lineage of high priest
... from his predecessor, the seventeenth high priest, Nissei.
... Nissei had fallen out of favor with Kyodai-in, an
... influential lay patron, who maneuvered him out of office
... (see chapter 4 for more information). With strong backing
... from Kyodai-in, Nisshun was selected as Nissei’s successor
... (The Sacred Scriptures of Nichiren Shoshu [Jpn Nichiren
... Shoshu Seiten], p. 763). (Editor’s note: Kyodai-in was an
... adopted daughter of Tokugawa Ieyasu, the founder of the Edo
... shogunate government.)
...
... For approximately four years, though out of office, Nissei
... refused to transfer the lineage. Until he finally received
... the lineage of high priest on October 27, 1645, Nisshun
... carried out various responsibilities—including the
... transcription and conferral of Gohonzon—as chief priest of
... Taiseki-ji but not as high priest of the school.There are
... two records of Gohonzon transcribed by Nisshun before he
... received the lineage of high priest. He transcribed one on
... January 8, 1645, and another on February 28 of the same
... year—approximately ten and eight months, respectively,
... before he received the lineage (Miscellaneous Records, vol.
... 2, p. 101; vol. 3, p. 104).
...
... The twenty-second high priest, Nisshun, received the
... lineage of high priest from the twenty-first high priest,
... Nichinin, in 1680 (The Chronology of Nichiren Shoshu and
... the Fuji School [Jpn Nichiren Shoshu Fuji Nenpyo], p. 257).
... In 1676, four years earlier, however, Nisshun transcribed a
... Gohonzon for the parish of Shinko-ji in the Chiba area
... (Miscellaneous Records, vol. 7, p. 254). It is not certain
... where Nisshun was at that time, but he was not high priest
... of Taiseki-ji. Nisshun was the first Taiseki-ji priest who
... became a teacher at the Hosokusa Seminary in Chiba.
... Probably because of his reputation as an erudite priest,
... the parish of Shinko-ji near the seminary might have asked
... Nisshun to transcribe a Gohonzon.
...
... In addition to the Gohonzon transcribed by persons other
... than the high priest, the school’s history also reveals
... numerous records of ordinary priests reproducing the
... Daishonin’s original Gohonzon as well as Gohonzon
... transcribed by some prominent high priests such as Nikko
... and Nichikan. In the process of reproduction, a priest
... would place the original beside the new reproduction and
... copy it as closely as possible. Or the image would be
... traced on thin paper placed atop the original. An artisan
... would then use the copies made in this manner to carve a
... wooden Gohonzon, or a wood block template, from which
... further reproductions would be printed.
...
... In February 1836, for example, Nikki, the chief priest of
... Butsugen-ji in Sendai, copied a Gohonzon that Nikko had
... transcribed in 1303 and had a wooden Gohonzon made from the
... copy. He then removed a Gohonzon transcribed by the
... thirty-seventh high priest from the temple altar and
... enshrined this wooden Gohonzon in its place (Miscellaneous
... Records, vol. 8, p. 215).While he described the process in
... writing on the back of the wooden Gohonzon, Nikki did not
... mention anything about receiving sanction from the high
... priest at Taiseki-ji to reproduce Nikko’s Gohonzon or
... whether the high priest conducted an eye-opening ceremony
... on it. (At that time, the fiftieth high priest, Nichijo,
... and the retired forty-eighth high priest, Nichiryo, were
... present at Taiseki-ji.)
...
... According to Miscellaneous Records, while some wooden
... Gohonzon carry the high priest’s signature, many others
... bear no such inscription or record. Furthermore, there is
... only one wooden Gohonzon in existence that bears a record
... of a high priest having performed an eye-opening ceremony
... upon it. This wooden Gohonzon was made after a Gohonzon
... transcribed by Nikko in 1306 (Miscellaneous Records, vol.
... 15, p. 445). Furthermore, in Miscellaneous Records and
... other documents, there are many records of Gohonzon
... reproduced through wood block printing whose templates were
... produced by those other than the high priests.These include
... Gohonzon reproduced from the Gohonzon inscribed by the
... Daishonin in 1282 and kept at Kyodai-ji in Tokushima
... Prefecture and widely distributed throughout Japan;
... Gohonzon reproduced from the Gohonzon transcribed by Nikko
... Shonin in March 1306 and kept at Honko-ji in Shizuoka
... Prefecture and other temples; and Gohonzon reproduced from
... the Gohonzon transcribed by Nichikan in 1718 and widely
... distributed during the late nineteenth century and the
... early twentieth century.
...
... The same 1718 Gohonzon by Nichikan was also conferred upon
... Gakkai members after World War II. None of these okatagi
... Gohonzon bear the high priest’s signature, indicating that
... their templates were transcribed by someone other than a
... high priest. Those numerous records indicate clearly that
... the high priest’s sanction or eye-opening ceremony was not
... a necessary condition for the reproduction of Gohonzon.
...
... Some high priests of modern times have claimed that the
... lineage of high priest is an absolutely necessary condition
... for the transcription of the Gohonzon. For example,
... fifty-sixth high priest Nichio (1848‒1922), states: “Unless
... one receives the bequeathal of the golden utterance to the
... direct successor, one can never transcribe the object of
... worship” (Dispelling Illusion and Observing One’s Mind [Jpn
... Bennaku Kanjin Sho], p. 212, as translated in Refuting the
... Soka Gakkai’s “Counterfeit Object of Worship”: 100
... Questions and Answers, p. 29). Nichio’s claim is either an
... indication of his ignorance of the school’s history or a
... blatant attempt to revise the tradition for the sake of
... aggrandizing the high priest’s authority. In light of the
... recorded history of the Fuji School, the high priest’s
... prerogative over the transcription and conferral of the
... Gohonzon is merely an administrative device to maintain the
... orderly relationship between Taiseki-ji and its branch
... temples and thereby prevent internal schism. It was never
... meant as a doctrinal or metaphysical necessity. For this
... reason, there are abundant records of Gohonzon transcribed
... by priests without the lineage of high priest.
...
... The current priesthood’s claims against the Gohonzon issued
... by the SGI clearly contradict the precedents set down in
... the Fuji School’s own history. Furthermore, the
... transcription from which this Gohonzon is derived was made
... by Nichikan, the twenty-sixth high priest recognized by
... both the priesthood and the Soka Gakkai as the “restorer of
... the Fuji School.” (For more discussions regarding the
... reproduction of the Gohonzon and its history, please refer
... to “A Historical Perspective on the Transcription of the
... Gohonzon” and “The Recent History of the Conferral of the
... Gohonzon” in Reaffirming Our Right to Happiness: On the
... Gohonzon Transcribed by High Priest Nichikan, published by
... the SGI-USA in 1996.)
...
... When the priesthood excommunicated it in 1991, the SGI was
... liberated from the priesthood’s authoritarianism in several
... important areas. The SGI’s decision to issue Gohonzon to
... its worldwide membership in 1993 freed the lay Buddhist
... movement from myths promulgated by the priesthood that had
... long shrouded the significance of the Gohonzon.
...
... Before this epochal decision, the priesthood deliberately
... led lay believers to think that they must leave matters
... concerning the Gohonzon—especially its transcription,
... printing and conferral—to the priesthood because they
... involve a level of mysticism beyond the grasp of ordinary
... practitioners.The priesthood’s attitude toward the Gohonzon
... also promoted the tendency to view the Gohonzon as an
... external entity endowed with mysterious powers that control
... the lives of believers.
...
... The SGI’s conferral of Gohonzon, however, has helped to
... clarify correct faith in the Gohonzon. It is no longer a
... magical object, the understanding of which is veiled by an
... alleged mysterious and exclusive heritage of an elite
... individual —the high priest. Meanwhile, the truly “mystic”
... quality of the Gohonzon has been made clear: that is, its
... power to call forth, in response to the believer’s powers
... of faith and practice, the “Gohonzon”—the enlightened
... life-state of Buddhahood equal to that of the
... Daishonin—from within each believer’s life. As the
... Daishonin states: “Never seek this Gohonzon outside
... yourself.... This Gohonzon also is found only in the two
... characters for faith” (WND, 832). Put another way, from the
... viewpoint of SGI members, the Gohonzon has ceased to be an
... object of spiritual dependency and has become the genuine
... object of their religious devotion and practice as intended
... by the Daishonin—a mirror to reflect their own inner
... enlightenment.
...
... * The section on the history of the transcription of the
... Gohonzon in this installment is partly based on Mikio
... Matsuoka’s pamphlet "A Historical Perspective on the
... Transcription of the Gohonzon in the Taiseki-ji School"
... (Jpn Taiseki-ji monryu no honzon shoshaken ni kansuru
... shiteki kosatsu), published by the Institute of Oriental
... Philosophy in 1997.

Enough said.

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

Please stop spamming with these long - off topic purposeful distractions from your being outed as a lazy, hostile hobo! You are so rude , Chas-


< Katie

[Chas.]

What is perpetually on-topic is your inability to focus on answering these 4 points, which you continue to dance around:

In spite of your various evasions, I will continue to confront you, Katie Higgins, with the inconvenient truth that, once again, my 4 points HAVE NOT BEEN ANSWERED BY YOU. And deflecting with this type of nonsense will not change that fact.

It is likely that these questions might not ever be answered honestly, because there is no viable construct supporting your distortions of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra into a dehumanizing deification of Shakyamuni as God Almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth like Jehovah or as a man-God like Jesus Christ. Statue-worshiping idolatry IS NOT Buddhism, it is an outrageous and insupportable attack on the Lotus Sutra itself.

[-1-] Nichiren Daishonin's own golden words in the Gosho refute your idolatry of Shakyamuni directly ("Myoho-Renge" is "the actual name of the entity", not Shakyamuni or Nichiren Daishonin.)

[-2-] The Lotus Sutra refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (In the past, 15 elder brothers, father and grandfather, and in the future his disciples and even Devadatta: all are great Buddhas just like Shakyamuni.) These are his golden words you deny.

[-3-] The Gohonzon refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (the prominence of "Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo Nichiren" over all other entities, Nichiren being the common mortal who is chanting and raising the banner of Myoho.)

[-4-] Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (we chant neither Nam-Shakyamuni-Butsu, nor Nam-Nichiren-Butsu.) This is what you chant every day, Katie Higgins, even though you deny the truth of it.

Katie must simply focus on these points and stop deflecting away from this central point of her distortion in faith.

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

1) Disputed Gosho-- not in Nichrien's hand, does not bear nNichiren's seal;-- not consistent with authentic Major Writings.
2) Chas analyzes the Lotus sutra while disbelieving the portions Nichiren recommended for daily recitation-- No FAITH=No WISDOM. Sorry, Chas-- you have not attained the wisdom of the Buddha :-(
3)Myoho-renge-kyo is the TITLE- the ESSENCE of the Lotus Sutra, which Nichiren does not separate from Shakyamnui, the Buddha who entrusted Nichiren with propagation of "Myoho-renge-kyo"
BTW- NAMU- is written on the Gohonzon- means "to devote one's life" --to "The Lotus sutra"
4)"Dehumanizing deification"? Your term, Chas-- your fantasy, Chas-- I have no clue what you are saying, but it sure doesn't resonate with me.

Adios Hobo!

~Katie

[Chas.]

Your lot don't get to burn the Gosho letters that you didn't like and then claim the copies are fakes!

However, in spite of your various evasions, I will continue to confront you, Katie Higgins, with the inconvenient truth that, once again, my 4 points HAVE NOT BEEN ANSWERED BY YOU. And deflecting with this type of nonsense will not change that fact.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren/jeDhDwSGoFE/UerpfkDzAQAJ

It is likely that these questions might not ever be answered honestly by Katie, because there is no viable construct supporting your distortions of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra into a dehumanizing deification of Shakyamuni as God Almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth like Jehovah or as a man-God like Jesus Christ. Statue-worshiping idolatry IS NOT Buddhism, it is an outrageous and insupportable attack on the Lotus Sutra itself.

[1:] Nichiren Daishonin's own golden words in the Gosho refute your idolatry of Shakyamuni directly ("Myoho-Renge" is "the actual name of the entity", not Shakyamuni or Nichiren Daishonin.)

[2:] The Lotus Sutra refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (In the past, 15 elder brothers, father and grandfather, and in the future his disciples and even Devadatta: all are great Buddhas just like Shakyamuni.) These are his golden words you deny.

[3:] The Gohonzon refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (the prominence of "Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo Nichiren" over all other entities, Nichiren being the common mortal who is chanting and raising the banner of Myoho.)

[4:] Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (we chant neither Nam-Shakyamuni-Butsu, nor Nam-Nichiren-Butsu.) This is what you chant every day, Katie Higgins, even though you deny the truth of it.

Katie must surely focus on these points and stop deflecting away from this central point of her distortion in faith.

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

Addendum / Buddhist scholars have categorized Nichiren’s writings - authenticating based on calligraphy , Nichiren’s seal , compatibility with authenticated Major writings. - “Personal preference “ is not a criteria .

Furthermore several tactics involving translation have been noted in Shoshu/Gakkai editions of the Gosho, as well as full on forgeries - FAKE oral transmissions and “ secret transfer documents “-

Well honed Tendai tactics - ALL /

Those who are interested in the detailed history of The corruption of Nichiren’s teachings should tead ,” Original Enlightenment and the Transformation of Medieval Japanese Buddhism “by, Jacqueline Stone.

~Katie

[Chas.]

Jackie Stone is your mentor, I get it. But she is not the leader for the Kosen Rufu movement, she is the leader for the path to darkness.

In spite of your various evasions, I will persist in confronting you, Katie Higgins, with the inconvenient truth that, once again, my 4 points HAVE NOT BEEN ANSWERED BY YOU. And deflecting with this type of nonsense will not change that fact.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren/jeDhDwSGoFE/UerpfkDzAQAJ

It is highly likely that these questions might not ever be answered honestly by Katie, because there is no viable construct supporting your distortions of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra into a dehumanizing deification of Shakyamuni as God Almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth like Jehovah or as a man-God like Jesus Christ. Statue-worshiping idolatry IS NOT Buddhism, it is an outrageous and insupportable attack on the Lotus Sutra itself.

[:1:] Nichiren Daishonin's own golden words in the Gosho refute your idolatry of Shakyamuni directly ("Myoho-Renge" is "the actual name of the entity", not Shakyamuni or Nichiren Daishonin.)

[:2:] The Lotus Sutra refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (In the past, 15 elder brothers, father and grandfather, and in the future his disciples and even Devadatta: all are great Buddhas just like Shakyamuni.) These are his golden words you deny.

[:3:] The Gohonzon refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (the prominence of "Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo Nichiren" over all other entities, Nichiren being the common mortal who is chanting and raising the banner of Myoho.)

[:4:] Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (we chant neither Nam-Shakyamuni-Butsu, nor Nam-Nichiren-Butsu.) This is what you chant every day, Katie Higgins, even though you deny the truth of it.

Katie must ultimately focus on these points and stop deflecting away from this central point of her distortion in faith.

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

The method for conducting purely academic research is time consuming and difficult. It is disheartening to note how Nichiren’s own example of ruthlessly pursuing authentic scripture and true masters of the Buddhas teachings is cheapened here by those who only employ their own personal bias when evaluating the merit of scholarly works on Nichiren’s writings .
Fortunately some readers will investigate for themselves and embark on a path of setkjng , then following the Law, not any person!

~ Katie

[Chas.]

Apparently "truly authentic" is in the eye of the beholder for you lot.

As I have said before, the authenticity of any document or Gohonzon can only be challenged with the absolutely best kind of science: (a) the kind of imaging that spotted the scraped off and overwritten Archimedes Palimpsest underneath the biblical texts and (b) the kind of AMS carbon dating using a particle accelerator that separates out carbon-14 atoms by counting the atoms themselves and not by counting their decay products on a detector.

[BTW, AMS carbon dating only requires 250 micrograms (4 grains of salt) of final carbon and can get better than 1 part in 200 of the final identified sample age: for Nichiren Daishonin's era that's a precision of around 4 years. That precision is independent of sample size, but mixing materials (in the original construction of the sample artifact, or in sample preparation) reduces the precision, which is obtained by integrating over (counting atoms) differently-aged population carbon isotope peak distributions in the mass spectrum:
https://www.radiocarbon.com/radiometric-plus.htm] ]

If you are unwilling to submit YOUR documents to scientific analysis, and only to YOUR "expert's" analysis? Then you lack the requisite objectivity to make any claims that can be substantiated by objectivity: your claims are unscientific, non-academic and subjective and can be thrown out upon first inspection of them.

In other words, put up or shut up.

-Chas.

[Noel]

This process will have to used on whats left of Ikeda to find out how long ago he died if its true what Jack says that he has passed and was given this info by contacts who know whats going on behind the scenes

[Chas.]

More vitriol against the man who was behind the spread of the Fuji School into the USA and your life, you ungrateful traitor.

This lie is refuted by a picture of Sensei and Kaneko at an exhibit in a photo with a caption from April 26, 2017 Tokyo in the July 14th, 2017 issue of the World Tribune, page 3.

And most recently in an article in the October 13th, 2017 issue, page 8 of the World Tribune. Sensei and Kaneko visited the Kanagawa Culture Center for a meeting with members.

Hence, Michael Cody, Noel and Reddit spew lies that are so easily objectively refuted as to be pathetic.

You know members of the SGI, these are recent, chat them up for the copies.

-Chas.

[Noel]

Ikeda is the oneness of good and evil like the all of us but gee havent we seen his evil side

[Katie Higgins]

On Thursday, November 23, 2017 at 6:04:17 PM UTC-5, Noel wrote:
> Ikeda is the oneness of good and evil like the all of us but gee havent we seen his evil side

Why concern yourself with Ikeda or a High Priest? Why do you deny what the Buddha himself taught?

>>"'I am ever here, not extinguished.'
Yet by the power of expedience
I manifest extinction and non-extinction.
When in other countries there are masses of
beings, those who reverence and believe
with joy. I likewise among them
preach the Supreme Dharma for their sake.
You, not hearing this,
Merely say to yourselves that I am extinguished,
When I see the masses of beings,
They are drowning in the sea of suffering.
Therefore I do not manifest My Body,
To cause them to produce adoration.
Because of their hearts' affectionate longing
Then I come forth and preach the Dharma for
them. My Divine Pervasive Powers are like this "<<

Nichiren's teachings, practice. life was focused on establishing your connection to the Eternal Buddha--

The above passage from the Life Span chapter of the Lotus sutra was selected by Nichiren and recommended for our daily recitation. Nichiren never changed his mind regarding the practice of reciting the "roots/heart" of the Lotus sutra. Wonder who decided that it was not important to believe these words of the Buddha? How long after Nichiren's death did the tides turn against Shakyamuni? Do you know the time line?

What is it about you guys that you just keep looking for short cuts and loop holes to support your own egocentric theories ? Nichiren was so clear and consistent on the importance of showing reverence and gratitude for Shakuyamuni-- thousands of statements make this clear, BUT, you keep looking for ways to deny that Nichiren considered the Lotus sutra and Shakaymuni as ONE and the same, and that the Gohonzon is WORDS- characters that represent the Eternal Buddha.

Ego battles and hero worship-- fill the archives of arbn right to the present --. It is beyond perverse !!

~Katie

[Noel]

Point Six, on the passage “Long ago, an immeasurable thousand, ten thousand, million asamkhyas of worlds to the east, in a land called Treasure Purity, there was a Buddha named Many Treasures.”

The Record of the Orally Transmitted Teachings says: The Treasure Purity World is the wombs of our mothers. “There was a Buddha” refers to the Buddha of the true aspect of all phenomena. Here he is called Many Treasures Buddha.

The womb is the realm of earthly desires. The Buddha of the true aspect of reality resides in the midst of the mud and mire of earthly desires. This refers to us living beings.

Now when Nichiren and his followers chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, they may be termed the Buddha of the Lotus that is the entity of the Law.

http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/ott/PART-1/11

[Katie Higgins]

Sorry, Noel "The Record of the Orally Transmitted Teachings" has been irrefutably proven NOT Nichiren's teachings--, a FAKE, forgery. So, you cannot use this writing to substantiate your views.

There are far too many clearly written passages where Nichiren describes the Buddha in detail-- there is the Rissho , where Nichiren states emphatically that the one major, grave error committed by all of the leading 8 schools of Buddhism in his time was "Abandoning Shakyamuni Buddha".

Why do you insist on referring to obscure and disputed writings? You are showing strong tendencies toward "confirmation bias" and displaying cognitive dissonance. Why? Because Nichiren's CLEAR ,authentic teachings are not sufficient for you ?

If you know of no one who can read medieval Japanese and Classical Chinese , you need to verify who amongst the contemporary Buddhist scholars or Shoshu priests ( there are about 1500==all of whom learn to read these languages, BTW) - You keep repeating the same errors with no hint of motivation to self correct.

~Katie

[Noel]

The OTT is what it is and stands alone as an interpretation of Nichiren's Teachings and just because a group of people with some fancy initials after their names and are able to read medieval Japanese and Classical Chinese but cannot understand the depths of what it reveals doesn't mean its fake

For example, do these words mean anything to you besides labeling them as fake

Is the meaning behind the words less important to you than who is on record for saying the words. Surely you couldn't be that shallow or could you!

[Katie Higgins]

What matters to me is : 1) Nichiren adhered strictly to scripture and noted that “ oral and secret “ transmissions were not to be trusted Nd 2) There are enough discrepancies in the OTT/ divergence from the Lotus Sutra and teachings in Nichiren’s major writings to discount it.

Intersecting side bar ; you depend on this Fake writing yo make your slanderous case that” the common mortal is the true Buddha”-/ but you fail to realize the whole point of fabricating this document was to attribute hongaku shiso to Nichiren .

I find it almost laughable the way you mock credentialed scholars -/ I cant imagine Nichiren adopting such a ridiculous posture - He mocked arrogant , corrupt priests , such as those you hold in high esteem .

~ Katie

[Noel]

On Saturday, November 25, 2017 at 9:51:30 AM UTC+10, Katie Higgins wrote:
> What matters to me is : 1) Nichiren adhered strictly to scripture and noted that “ oral and secret “ transmissions were not to be trusted Nd 2) There are enough discrepancies in the OTT/ divergence from the Lotus Sutra and teachings in Nichiren’s major writings to discount it.
>
> Intersecting side bar ; you depend on this Fake writing yo make your slanderous case that” the common mortal is the true Buddha”-/ but you fail to realize the whole point of fabricating this document was to attribute hongaku shiso to Nichiren .
>

> I find it almost laughable the way you mock credentialed scholars -/ I cant imagine Nichiren adopting such a ridiculous posture - He mocked arrogant, corrupt priests, such as those you hold in high esteem .
>
> ~ Katie

Nichiren adhered strictly to scripture and noted that “ oral and secret “ transmissions were not to be trusted Nd 2)

If this is true then Nichiren should have never uttered a single golden word of Shakyamuni Buddha since they were orally transmitted for hundreds of years before they were written down and there is conjecture if Shakyamuni said them in the first place say the scholars that you hold in such high esteem

[Katie Higgins]

Here we go again — 💤💤💤💤💤

[Noel]

When you wake up from your self indulgent Shakyamuni Buddha centric belief system coma we may be able to speak

[Katie Higgins]

How strange that you have been practicing for at least 2decades and have not yet read enough of Nichitens collected writings to KNOW who Shskyamuni Buddha is and his prominence in Nichiren’s teachings . So, if you are awake , you must just be lazy .

~ Katie

[Noel]

You have not yet understood Katie even though you think that you have a clear understanding. Its all a matter of perspective and from my perspective you are 180 degree in the wrong direction and you no doubt will agree to disagree

[Katie Higgins]

Show me - using the same standards Nichiren taught , EXACTLY where you find errors in what I have shared. You must use only Nichiten’s AITHENTIC writings !! Can you do that ?

Did you ever read “The Words of the Lotus Sutra in Nichiren’s Thought” by Kitagawa Zencho?

Here’s one line to ponder : “ Nichiren argues on the basis of the nonduality of firm and mind that the written words of the Lotus Sutra are the Buddha’s mind or intent made visible ,a conviction that informed his equating of the Lotus Sutra with the primordial Sakyamuni Buddha himself “

Those who can read Nichiren’s original writings and are able to discern which are actually Nichiren’s own work arrive at this dame conclusion . I appreciate their providing evidence for what I believed just reading the Gosho- consulting Nichiren instead of leaders/mentors and priests for 28 years .

I am certain you cannot employ correct standards for formal debate and refute what I have shared here . I am not interested in arguing with your personal take or your leanings toward interpretations by leaders/mentors:priests .

Man up — or shut up !!

~ Katie

[Noel]

Where do you think the historical Shakyamuni/Siddhartha Gautama is now and what is he doing? Do you think that because he attained enlightenment that he will be in that state for all eternity and shall be forever known as the Eternal Shakyamuni Buddha, is this the kind of faith you have?

The primordial Sakyamuni Buddha has a beginning, therefore, an end..a blip in eternity

The real Eternal Shakyamuni Buddha is the 3 Bodied Tathagata Thus Come One Nam[u] Myoho Renge Kyo that Nichiren the person who was one with the law expressed through Gohonzon is alive in this object of devotion in the age of Mappo through correct faith study and practice that you don't have from what I've seen of your arrogant behaviour so far

[Chas.]

One more time.

Nichiren Daishonin would never, ever say ANYTHING that disagrees with Shakyamuni Buddha's golden words in the Lotus SUtra literally declaring the history of his family, that his 15 brothers, father and grandfather all are Great Buddhas preaching the Lotus Sutra in different parts of the universe.

When they preach the Lotus Sutra, in the ceremony of the air chapters, all the universal entities surround them as the Great Buddha preaches the Law, and the Bodhisattvas of the Earth arise to receive the Law, vow to spread it widely and protect it without begrudging their lives.

He is preaching that truth in the understanding that idolaters such as yourself and Nichiren Shu, will in the future erect statues to him and ignore his true teaching that all men are Buddhas receiving the three bodies of the Buddha from their parents at birth.

Here are the Lotus Sutra passages you continue to ignore and that Nichiren Daishonin WOULD NEVER, EVER DENY!

The Parable of the Phantom City, LS-7, pp 156-157:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/lsoc/Content/7#para-35

,.. "Now, monks, the buddha Great Universal Wisdom Excellence
,.. passed ten small kalpas before the Law of the buddhas
,.. finally appeared before him and he attained supreme
,.. perfect enlightenment. Before this buddha left the
,.. householder's life, he had sixteen sons, the first of whom
,.. was named Wisdom Accumulated. These sons each had various
,.. kinds of rare objects and toys of one kind or another, but
,.. when they heard that their father had attained supreme
,.. perfect enlightenment, they all threw aside their rare
,.. objects and went to where the buddha was. Their mothers,
,.. weeping, followed after them.
,..
,.. "Their grandfather, who was a wheel-turning sage king,
,.. along with a hundred chief ministers, as well as a
,.. hundred, thousand, ten thousand, million of his subjects,
,.. all together surrounded the sons and followed them to the
,.. place of enlightenment, all wishing to draw close to the
,.. thus come one Great Universal Wisdom Excellence, to offer
,.. alms, pay honor, venerate, and praise him. When they
,.. arrived, they bowed before his feet, touching their heads
,.. to the ground.

Here is Shakyamuni and his fifteen older brothers all preached in different Buddha lands:

From the Lotus Sutra, Chapter 7, "Parable of the Phantom City", pp.172-173:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/lsoc/Content/7#para-282

,.. “You monks, I will now tell you this. These disciples of
,.. the buddha, these sixteen shramaneras, have now all
,.. attained supreme perfect enlightenment. In the lands in the
,.. ten directions they are at present preaching the Law, with
,.. immeasurable hundreds, thousands, ten thousands, millions
,.. of bodhisattvas and voice-hearers for their retinues. Two
,.. of these shramaneras have become buddhas in the eastern
,.. region. One is named Akshobhya and lives in the Land of
,.. Joy. The other is named Sumeru Peak. Two are buddhas in the
,.. southeastern region, one named Lion Voice, the other named
,.. Lion Appearance. Two are buddhas in the southern region,
,.. one named Void-Dwelling, the other named Ever Extinguished.
,.. Two are buddhas in the southwestern region, one named
,.. Emperor Appearance, the other named Brahma Appearance. Two
,.. are buddhas in the western region, one named Amitayus, the
,.. other named Saving All from Worldly Suffering. Two are
,.. buddhas in the northwestern region, one named Tamala Leaf
,.. Sandalwood Fragrance Transcendental Power, the other named
,.. Sumeru Appearance. Two are buddhas in the northern region,
,.. one named Cloud Freedom, the other named Cloud Freedom
,.. King. Of the buddhas of the northeastern region, one is
,.. named Destroying All Worldly Fears. THE SIXTEENTH IS I,
,.. SHAKYAMUNI BUDDHA, WHO IN THIS SAHA LAND HAVE ATTAINED
,.. SUPREME PERFECT ENLIGHTENMENT.

And here, once again, is Devadatta in the future.

From the Lotus Sutra, Chapter 12, "Devadatta", pp.223-224:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/lsoc/Content/12#para-35

,.. Then the Buddha said to the four kinds of believers:
,.. “Devadatta, after immeasurable kalpas have passed, will
,.. attain buddhahood. He will be called Heavenly King Thus
,.. Come One, worthy of offerings, of right and universal
,.. knowledge, perfect clarity and conduct, well gone,
,.. understanding the world, unexcelled worthy, trainer of
,.. people, teacher of heavenly and human beings, buddha,
,.. world-honored one. His world will be called Heavenly Way,
,.. and at that time Heavenly King Buddha will abide in the
,.. world for twenty medium kalpas, broadly preaching the
,.. wonderful Law for the sake of living beings. Living beings
,.. numerous as Ganges sands will attain the fruit of
,.. arhatship. Immeasurable numbers of living beings will
,.. conceive the desire to become cause-awakened ones, living
,.. beings numerous as Ganges sands will conceive a desire for
,.. the unsurpassed way, will gain the truth of birthlessness,
,.. and will never regress. After Heavenly King Buddha enters
,.. parinirvana, his Correct Law will endure in the world for
,.. twenty medium kalpas. The relics from his whole body will
,.. be housed in a tower built of the seven treasures, sixty
,.. yojanas in height and forty yojanas in width and depth. All
,.. the heavenly and human beings will take assorted flowers,
,.. powdered incense, incense for burning, paste incense,
,.. clothing, necklaces, streamers and banners, jeweled
,.. canopies, music and songs of praise and offer them with
,.. obeisance to the wonderful seven-jeweled tower.
,.. Immeasurable numbers of living beings will attain the
,.. fruits of arhatship, numberless living beings will become
,.. enlightened as pratyekabuddhas, and unimaginable numbers of
,.. living beings will conceive a desire for enlightenment and
,.. will reach the level of no regression.”

So, answer me Katie, is Shakyamuni lying or not?

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

Not according to Nichiren - and definitely not according to the Lotus Sutra.
You are admitting you don’t believe that Shakyamuni is always abiding in this world ? You don’t believe he was never born and will never die? That actually is what you just said !

Disbelieving the Lotus Sutra , separating and making the daimoku prior to and superior to
The Lotus Sutra is kanto Tendai, Noel - the fourfold rise and fall doctrinal classification supports your view - which appeared a few hundred years after Nichiren’s death - penned by a Tendai trained priest - Nittcho- was his name- he introduced Nichiren as the original Buddha, too —-using the fourfold rise and fall to support his heretical teaching .

You don’t know your doctrine and you sure don’t know it’s history . But since you boldly declare that the Lotus Sutra is irrelevant , I suggest you stop using Nichiren’s name to identify the Tendai bunk you practice .

~ Katie

[Chas.]

Are you maintaining that the Great Buddhas that Shakyamuni predicts in the future and those that came before him, his anonymous grandfather, his father Great Universal Wisdom Excellence, his 15 brothers Akshobhya, Sumeru Peak, Lion Voice, Lion Appearance, Void-Dwelling, Ever Extinguished, Emperor Appearance, Brahma Appearance, Amitayus, Worldly Suffering, Tamala Leaf Sandalwood Fragrance Transcendental Power, Sumeru Appearance, Cloud Freedom, Cloud Freedom King, All Worldly Fears and finally Devadatta in the future Heavenly King Thus Come One and many others, that all those Great Buddhas are fake? That they are not also speaking about manifesting the body of "Myoho-Renge" in the Juryo chapter? That the body of "Myoho-Renge" is not always abiding in this world? Do you think he would mention them if they were preaching something other than the Juryo chapter?

Or is it more likely that Nichiren Daishonin speaks in the vernacular of the time, in the language and understanding of the people he is talking to, in dealing with the conflict between those who follow Shakyamuni and those who follow Amida, Mahavairochana, Yakushi Nyorai, and the Zen void, without complicating that critical battle with these details, in other words, that Nichiren Daishonin is using expedient means and Shakyamuni is telling the truth?

I think the latter is more likely, and where Nichiren Daishonin states that every single character of the Lotus Sutra is the truth, that he is speaking from the heart.

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

The language Nichiren employed when writings was always appropriate for his intended audience —- but the content of his teachings did not vary.

~ Katie

[Chas.]

Regarding my point above:

On Sunday, November 26, 2017 at 10:32:11 AM UTC-8, Chas. wrote:
> Are you maintaining that the Great Buddhas that Shakyamuni predicts in the future and those that came before him, his anonymous grandfather, his father Great Universal Wisdom Excellence, his 15 brothers Akshobhya, Sumeru Peak, Lion Voice, Lion Appearance, Void-Dwelling, Ever Extinguished, Emperor Appearance, Brahma Appearance, Amitayus, Worldly Suffering, Tamala Leaf Sandalwood Fragrance Transcendental Power, Sumeru Appearance, Cloud Freedom, Cloud Freedom King, All Worldly Fears and finally Devadatta in the future Heavenly King Thus Come One and many others, that all those Great Buddhas are fake? That they are not also speaking about manifesting the body of "Myoho-Renge" in the Juryo chapter? Do you think he would mention them if they were preaching something other than the Juryo chapter?

>
> Or is it more likely that Nichiren Daishonin speaks in the vernacular of the time, in the language and understanding of the people he is talking to, in dealing with the conflict between those who follow Shakyamuni and those who follow Amida, Mahavairochana, Yakushi Nyorai, and the Zen void, without complicating that critical battle with these details, in other words, that Nichiren Daishonin is using expedient means and Shakyamuni is telling the truth?
>
> I think the latter is more likely, and where Nichiren Daishonin states that every single character of the Lotus Sutra is the truth, that he is speaking from the heart.
>
> -Chas.

Your response below:

On Sunday, November 26, 2017 at 11:44:25 PM UTC-8, Katie Higgins wrote:
> Buddhist scholar Kitagawa Zencho , who is proficient in medieval Japanese and Classical Chinese, and can read Nichiren’s Original writings , wrote “ The Words of the Lotus Sutra “
>
> I shared quotes from “Opening the Eyes of Wooden and Psinted Images” and other Gosho from the Showa Teihon in recent posts . Here is an educated perspective on Nichiren’s attitude toward the Buddha’s own words :
>
> “Nichiren did not regard the sutras merely as the Buddha’s “ skillful mean,” that is , as glosses on the Buddha’s awakening or as guidebook to enlightenment. Rather, Nichiren revered the sutras, and the Lotus Sutra in particular, as the Buddha’s very words, or, we might say, the Buddha’s edicts. This absolute confidence in the sutras is consistent with his interpretive stance of “ relying on the Dharma and not on persons “...If we had to sum up Nichiren’s attitude toward the written words of the Sutra in succinct expression, we could call it one of “faith.”
>
> If one wants to know how Shakyamuni Buddha is distinguished from all other Buddhas, or how these other Buddhas are related to Shakyamuni , there are about a thousand passages in Nichiren’s collective writings that address these topics. No need to speculate regarding Nichiren’s teachings about the ONE Buddha to whom we owe the greatest debt of gratitude.
>

That continues to evade, while sharpening my criticism.

If Nichiren Daishonin regarded the Lotus Sutra as the ultimate truth, then how could his own meaning conflict with that truth?

It could not.

Therefore your interpretation of what Nichiren Daishonin means in those "thousands" of passages from the Gosho is in fact incorrect.

If Shakyamuni is speaking the truth when addressing the history of great Buddhas before him, concurrent to him, and after him (which he surely is,) then the fact that he is making that point so clearly and directly means that he is refuting you, Nichiren Shu, and the Theravada/Hinayana believers that the eternal Buddha is named Shakyamuni, a prince of a ruling family from thousands of years ago, the Shakyas.

He is thoroughly refuting your belief in his personal role as supreme deity.

What Nichiren Daishonin states makes more sense, that there are many great Buddhas, who preach the same Lotus Sutra many times, perhaps each of us getting our turn at some point. That the "actual name of the entity" for each of us is "Myoho-Renge", which is why each of us can attain enlightenment by reciting the one phrase preached by ALL THE GREAT BUDDHAS.

Numberless major world system dust particle kalpas is a longer time than the mind can grasp, and there is more than enough time there for a finite number of living beings to each become a great Buddha.

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

Chas still cannot grasp that the strange language in his “ main corpus “ is not Nichiren’s ! Does Chas sound eloquent proposing his views on Nichiren’s use of the vernacular ? No. Chas cannot even determine what was actually written by Nichiren . He is a particularly pernicious hobo !
~ Katie

[Chas.]

On Monday, November 27, 2017 at 6:29:57 PM UTC-8, Katie Higgins wrote:
> This is NOT Nichiren’s teaching —Noel drinks the elixir chosen by arrogant fools who just have to believe they are “ naturally “ fully endowed — a lazier bunch you won’t likely encounter !
>
> ~ Katie

Au contraire ..

________ Slanders of the common mortal ___________
________ as the true Buddha ______________________

Let's revisit that ARBN quote from the follower of the Nichiren Shu traitorous founders, the Five Senior Priests who converted Nichiren Daishonin's practice of Buddhism into a syncretic Shinto statue-worshiping of Shakyamuni as God Almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth:

||| I have considered the recipients of Nichiren's writings to
||| be a key factor, or rather, an important element regarding
||| the *meaning* conveyed. Nichiren wrote about the Gohonzon
||| to disciples and lay followers whom he had taught for
||| almost two decades; all of whom grasped the doctrines
||| Nichiren himself established for propagating
||| Myoho-renge-kyo in this latter age.
|||
||| Do you, Chas, accept and believe the preceding 18 years of
||| Nichiren's teachings , written to these disciples and lay
||| followers? In those writings I find and provide passages
||| here, to establish that Nichiren himself taught the primacy
||| of the daimoku as " a complete explanation" of the Lotus
||| Sutra, and Shakyamuni as the true, eternal Buddha. Since
||| you have dismissed the basic understanding ALL recipients
||| of Nichiren's writings most certainly had, how can you make
||| any determinations about the *meaning* expressed in the
||| Gosho?

There are many pillars upholding the difference of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra from all other Buddhisms, which are then clearly distortions of the Buddha's teachings and intent.

It's also abundantly true that all of Nichiren Daishonin's pillars stand together in perfect logical harmony, without the tiniest weak point in the structure. All of the deviant variants of Buddhism are like horrid collapsing lopsided structures in comparison. They are tents and hastily erected shacks that do not survive even the slight breeze. Let's start with the notion of manifesting Buddhahood in an instant:

From "Wu-lung and I-lung", WND I, p. 1099 (most relevant part highlighted):

http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/162#para-1

... Myoho-renge-kyo is likened to the lotus. The great māndāra
... flower in heaven and the cherry blossom in the human world
... are both celebrated flowers, but the Buddha chose neither
... to compare to the Lotus Sutra. Of all the flowers, he
... selected the lotus blossom to symbolize the Lotus Sutra.
... There is a reason for this. Some plants first flower and
... then produce fruit, while in others fruit comes forth
... before flowers. Some bear only one flower but much fruit,
... others send forth many flowers but only one fruit, and
>> still others produce fruit without flowering. THUS THERE
>> ARE ALL MANNER OF PLANTS, BUT THE LOTUS IS THE ONLY ONE
>> THAT BEARS FLOWERS AND FRUIT SIMULTANEOUSLY. THE BENEFIT OF
>> ALL THE OTHER SUTRAS IS UNCERTAIN, BECAUSE THEY TEACH THAT
>> ONE MUST FIRST MAKE GOOD CAUSES AND ONLY THEN CAN ONE
>> BECOME A BUDDHA AT SOME LATER TIME. WITH REGARD TO THE
>> LOTUS SUTRA, WHEN ONE'S HAND TAKES IT UP, THAT HAND
>> IMMEDIATELY ATTAINS BUDDHAHOOD, AND WHEN ONE'S MOUTH CHANTS
>> IT, THAT MOUTH IS ITSELF A BUDDHA, AS, FOR EXAMPLE, THE
>> MOON IS REFLECTED IN THE WATER THE MOMENT IT APPEARS FROM
>> BEHIND THE EASTERN MOUNTAINS, OR AS A SOUND AND ITS ECHO
>> ARISE SIMULTANEOUSLY. IT IS FOR THIS REASON THAT THE SUTRA
>> STATES, "IF THERE ARE THOSE WHO HEAR THE LAW, THEN NOT A
>> ONE WILL FAIL TO ATTAIN BUDDHAHOOD." THIS PASSAGE MEANS
>> THAT, IF THERE ARE A HUNDRED OR A THOUSAND PEOPLE WHO
>> UPHOLD THIS SUTRA, WITHOUT A SINGLE EXCEPTION ALL ONE
>> HUNDRED OR ONE THOUSAND OF THEM WILL BECOME BUDDHAS.

The piece to focus on here is:

"The benefit of all the other sutras is uncertain, because they teach that one must first make good causes and only then can one become a Buddha at some later time. With regard to the Lotus Sutra, when one's hand takes it up, that hand immediately attains Buddhahood, and when one's mouth chants it, that mouth is itself a Buddha"

The only conceivable way that one can attain Buddhahood simultaneously with chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo, is if one is already a Buddha, and one only needs to chant the daimoku to manifest that pre-existing and inherited Buddhahood.

As argued clearly in the previous 2nd section on slanders of the true aspect of all phenomena, (1.) the common mortal is the true Buddha and provisional Buddhas are a function of the true Buddha (common mortal), and (2.) all phenomena are the true aspect AND Myoho-Renge-Kyo, precisely because the true aspect means without having the aspect of any specific or particular entity, but is inclusive of all entities.

The view that the provisional Buddhas who appear to save we common mortals are THE Buddha, and that we ARE NOT, is a slander of the Lotus Sutra in the Latter Day of the Law and it arises from confusing inconspicuous benefit with enlightenment.

Here is Nichiren Daishonin's explanation of the differences in the teachings, and which view the Lotus Sutra takes.

From "The Unanimous Declaration by the Buddhas", WND II, p. 859:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-2/Content/315#para-185

>> WHEN ONE TURNS TO THE PERFECT TEACHING, however, and sees
... that all phenomena are perfectly fused together, full and
... perfect like the moon on the fifteenth night of the month,
... free of all insufficiency, and when one understands them to
>> the fullest, THEN THERE IS NO MORE JUDGING THEM AS GOOD OR
>> BAD, NO MORE CHOOSING ON THE BASIS OF WHAT IS TIMELY, NO
>> MORE NEED TO SEEK OUT A QUIET SETTING, NO MORE QUESTION OF
>> WHICH PERSONS ARE ELIGIBLE. When one understands that all
... phenomena whatsoever are manifestations of the Buddhist
... Law, then one has fully comprehended the nature of the
... things of the phenomenal realm. Then even if one follows a
... path that is not the way, one will still be fulfilling
... the Buddha way.
...
>> HEAVEN, EARTH, WATER, FIRE, AND WIND ARE THE FIVE WISDOM
>> THUS COME ONES. THEY RESIDE WITHIN THE BODY AND MIND OF ALL
>> LIVING BEINGS AND ARE NEVER SEPARATED FROM THEM EVEN FOR AN
>> INSTANT. THEREFORE WORLDLY AFFAIRS AND AFFAIRS RELATING TO
>> ENLIGHTENMENT BLEND TOGETHER IN HARMONY WITHIN THE MIND OF
>> THE INDIVIDUAL; OUTSIDE OF THE MIND, THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO
>> OTHER THING THAT EXISTS. THEREFORE, WHEN ONE HEARS THIS
>> TRUTH, ONE CAN AT THAT POINT IMMEDIATELY ATTAIN THE GOAL OF
>> BUDDHAHOOD WITHOUT A MOMENT'S DELAY, FOR IT IS A PRINCIPLE
>> OF THE UTMOST PROFUNDITY.

To confuse inconspicuous benefit with enlightenment is a slander of the Lotus Sutra, and will cause one to fall into the evil paths.

Inconspicuous benefit grows slowly as one practices, like a great tree.

Being the true Buddha is the heritage of the Law, received from your parents at birth in the form of the three bodies of the Buddha, establishing your true identity as Myoho-Renge, the Entity of the Mystic Law.

You have always been and will always be the true Buddha: to be a living being is to be the true Buddha.

What in heaven's name is so difficult to understand about the common mortal being the true Buddha? It has nothing at all to do with the "original enlightenment" of corrupted Tendai traitors, who just want to sit on their ass and do nothing.

SGI members accept that the enlightenment they attain upon chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo to the Gohonzon means that they have to walk that talk: the characteristics of a Buddha are the characteristics of a Bodhisattva bent on doing Kosen Rufu. Law -> Wisdom -> Action, and the action of shakubuku speaks the loudest: shakubuku manifests your Buddhahood most clearly.

All living beings are Buddhas, endowed with the three Bodies of the Buddha received from their parents.

From "On the Treasure Tower," WND I, pp. 299-300:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/31#para-3
.. YOU, YOURSELF, ARE A THUS COME ONE WHO IS ORIGINALLY
.. ENLIGHTENED AND ENDOWED WITH THE THREE BODIES. You should
.. chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo with this conviction. Then the
.. place where you chant daimoku will become the dwelling
.. place of the treasure tower.

He says it plainly right there: "You, yourself, ARE A THUS COME ONE WHO IS ORIGINALLY ENLIGHTENED AND ENDOWED WITH THE THREE BODIES." Nichiren Daishonin is not just being a cheerleader for Abutsu-bo here, he really means it.

From "Conversation between a Sage and an Unenlightened Man," WND I, p. 131:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/13#para-202
.. THE BUDDHA NATURE THAT ALL THESE BEINGS POSSESS IS CALLED
.. BY THE NAME MYOHO-RENGE-KYO. THEREFORE, IF YOU RECITE THESE
.. WORDS OF THE DAIMOKU ONCE, THEN THE BUDDHA NATURE OF ALL
.. LIVING BEINGS WILL BE SUMMONED AND GATHER AROUND YOU. AT
.. THAT TIME THE THREE BODIES OF THE DHARMA NATURE WITHIN
.. YOU—THE DHARMA BODY, THE REWARD BODY, AND THE MANIFESTED
.. BODY—WILL BE DRAWN FORTH AND BECOME MANIFEST. THIS IS
.. CALLED ATTAINING BUDDHAHOOD. To illustrate, when a caged
.. bird sings, the many birds flying in the sky all gather
.. around it at once; seeing this, the bird in the cage
.. strives to get out.”

And there he says it again, very clearly, no interpretation required. "... if you recite the words of the daimoku once ... This is called attaining Buddhahood."

From "The Unanimous Declaration by the Buddhas of the Three Existences regarding the Classification of the Teachings and Which Are to Be Abandoned and Which Upheld," WND II, pp. 847-848:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-2/Content/315#para-105
.. THE SENTIENT BEINGS AND THE ENVIRONMENT OF THE TEN WORLDS
.. ARE THE BUDDHA OF THE DHARMA BODY, ONE WHO POSSESSES THE
.. VIRTUE OF THE THREE BODIES IN A SINGLE ENTITY. Once one has
.. understood this, one will fully realize that all phenomena
.. are the Buddhist Law. This is known as the stage of hearing
.. the name and words of the truth. FROM THE STAGE OF HEARING
.. THE NAME AND WORDS OF THE TRUTH ONE PROCEEDS DIRECTLY TO
.. THE ATTAINMENT OF BUDDHAHOOD IN ONE’S PRESENT FORM. Thus
.. in the teaching of perfect and immediate enlightenment
.. there are no successive stages of practice.

Note the phrase: "From the stage of HEARING THE NAME AND WORDS OF THE TRUTH one proceeds directly to the ATTAINMENT OF BUDDHAHOOD IN ONE’S PRESENT FORM."

From hearing the daimoku -> directly to attaining Buddhahood.

Then he says: "Thus in the teaching of perfect and immediate enlightenment THERE ARE NO SUCCESSIVE STAGES OF PRACTICE."

Thus, there are no extra practices needed to attain Buddhahood.

Enlightenment or Buddhahood is attained by hearing or chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo for the very first time. In that moment you are a participant in the ceremony in the air.

From "The Entity of the Mystic Law," WND I, p. 429:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/47#para-89

.. Therefore, we understand that, once the “Life Span”
.. chapter of the essential teaching had been revealed, ALL
.. THOSE IN THE ASSEMBLY ON EAGLE PEAK BECAME ENLIGHTENED TO
.. THE LOTUS OF THE ENTITY. Those of the two vehicles, the
.. icchantikas, or persons of incorrigible disbelief, and
.. the determinate groups, as well as women and evil men,
.. ALL GAINED AN AWAKENING TO THE LOTUS OF THE ETERNAL BUDDHA.

All living beings are Buddhas, and they all attain Buddhahood/enlightenment in the ceremony in the air, which you participate in, upon any contact with the daimoku of the Lotus Sutra.

From "Conversation between a Sage and an Unenlightened Man," WND I, p. 133:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/13#para-217

.. “It is the same way with the practitioners of the Lotus
.. Sutra. THOUGH THEY MAY NOT UNDERSTAND THE PRINCIPLES OF
.. BUDDHISM AND MAY NOT KNOW THAT THEY ARE SUFFERING FROM
.. DELUSION, IF ONLY THEY HAVE FAITH, THEN WITHOUT A DOUBT
.. THEY WILL BE ABLE TO FREE THEMSELVES simultaneously from
.. the illnesses of the three categories of illusion—illusions
.. of thought and desire, illusions innumerable as particles
.. of dust and sand, and illusions about the true nature of
.. existence. THEY WILL REACH THE LANDS OF ACTUAL REWARD AND
.. TRANQUIL LIGHT, AND CAUSE THE THREE BODIES OF A THUS COME
.. ONE THAT THEY INHERENTLY POSSESS TO SHINE.

In Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism, Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo IS EQUAL TO FAITH, chanting it and even hearing it is attaining enlightenment and manifesting your inherent Buddhahood.

From "The Teaching, Practice, and Proof," WND I, p. 470:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/57#para-20
.. People may well wonder what this revelation means. Explain
.. that it teaches that COMMON PEOPLE LIKE OURSELVES, who have
.. been submerged in the sufferings of birth and death since
.. time without beginning and who never so much as dreamed of
.. reaching the shore of enlightenment, BECOME THE THUS COME
.. ONES WHO ARE ORIGINALLY ENLIGHTENED AND ENDOWED WITH THE
.. THREE BODIES.

And that means through the revelation (hearing the daimoku, chanting it) of the Lotus Sutra itself, we common people become the Thus Come Ones (plural,) not through some Bodhisattva path. We perform as Bodhisattvas, BECAUSE WE HAVE ATTAINED BUDDHAHOOD THROUGH CHANTING NAM_MYOHO_RENGE_KYO TO THE GOHONZON.

From "The One Essential Phrase," WND I, p. 922:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/121#para-1
.. SINCE THE LOTUS SUTRA DEFINES OUR BODY AS THE DHARMA BODY
.. OF A THUS COME ONE, OUR MIND AS THE REWARD BODY OF A THUS
.. COME ONE, AND OUR ACTIONS AS THE MANIFESTED BODY OF A THUS
.. COME ONE, ALL WHO UPHOLD AND BELIEVE IN EVEN A SINGLE
.. PHRASE OR VERSE OF THIS SUTRA WILL BE ENDOWED WITH THE
.. BENEFITS OF THESE THREE BODIES. Nam-myoho-renge-kyo is only
.. one phrase or verse, but it is no ordinary phrase, for it
.. is the essence of the entire sutra. YOU ASKED WHETHER ONE
.. CAN ATTAIN BUDDHAHOOD ONLY BY CHANTING NAM-MYOHO-RENGE-KYO,
.. AND THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION OF ALL. THIS IS THE
.. HEART OF THE ENTIRE SUTRA AND THE SUBSTANCE OF ITS EIGHT
.. VOLUMES.

Just by chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo, we can attain Buddhahood. He doesn't say how long we have to chant, because it happens immediately.

From "The Entity of the Mystic Law," WND I, p. 420:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/47#para-29
.. IN ESSENCE, THE ENTITY OF MYOHO-RENGE-KYO IS THE PHYSICAL
.. BODY THAT THE DISCIPLES AND FOLLOWERS OF NICHIREN WHO
.. BELIEVE IN THE LOTUS SUTRA RECEIVED FROM THEIR FATHERS AND
.. MOTHERS AT BIRTH. Such persons, WHO HONESTLY DISCARD
.. EXPEDIENT MEANS, PUT FAITH IN THE LOTUS SUTRA ALONE, AND
.. CHANT NAM-MYOHO-RENGE-KYO, WILL TRANSFORM THE THREE PATHS
.. OF EARTHLY DESIRES, KARMA, AND SUFFERING INTO THE THREE
.. VIRTUES OF THE DHARMA BODY, WISDOM, AND EMANCIPATION. The
.. threefold contemplation and the three truths will
.. immediately become manifest in their minds, and the place
.. where they live will become the Land of Eternally Tranquil
.. Light. The Buddha who is the entity of Myoho-renge-kyo, of
.. the “Life Span” chapter of the essential teaching, who is
.. both inhabiting subject and inhabited realm, life and
.. environment, body and mind, entity and function, THE BUDDHA
.. ETERNALLY ENDOWED WITH THE THREE BODIES—HE IS TO BE FOUND
.. IN THE DISCIPLES AND LAY BELIEVERS OF NICHIREN.

Notice the qualifying phrase:

"Such persons, WHO HONESTLY DISCARD EXPEDIENT MEANS, put faith in the Lotus Sutra alone, and chant Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, will transform the three paths of earthly desires, karma, and suffering into the three virtues of the Dharma body, wisdom, and emancipation."

You have to "honestly discard expediant means" to gain the benefits of the three bodies: you can't worship statues, practice the four dictums (Zen, Nembutsu, Tantric/True Word, Shakyamuni's provisional precepts), join with Shinto, or chant to pirated printouts of Gohonzon stolen by traitorous, thieving, murderous priests of Nichiren Shu, who betrayed Nichiren Daishonin by distorting his Buddhism into a statue-worshiping Shinto cult forcing Shakyamuni into the role of God Almighty, which he would have rejected as utterly narcissistic. That slander of complicity cancels your benefits of the three bodies.

From "The Doctrine of Three Thousand Realms in a Single Moment of Life," WND II, p. 87:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-2/Content/180#para-43
.. THIS MYOHO-RENGE-KYO IS A TERM DESIGNATING THE ESSENTIAL
.. NATURE OF OUR MINDS, OR, MORE GENERALLY SPEAKING, THE
.. ESSENTIAL NATURE OF THE MINDS OF ALL LIVING BEINGS, THE
.. EIGHT-PETALED WHITE LOTUS BLOSSOM. THE WORDS OF THE BUDDHA
.. HIMSELF TEACH US THIS. From time without beginning until
.. the present, these bodies of ours have transmigrated
.. through the realm of birth and death, in a state of
.. delusion as to the essential nature of the mind that is
.. within these bodies. BUT NOW THAT WE HAVE ENCOUNTERED THE
.. LOTUS SUTRA AND CHANT THE DAIMOKU THAT REPRESENTS THE THUS
.. COME ONE OF ORIGINAL ENLIGHTENMENT, WHO POSSESSES THE THREE
.. BODIES IN A SINGLE BODY, THE THUS COME ONE BECOMES
.. MANIFEST. In our present existence we achieve the inner
.. realization and attainment of Buddhahood that is known as
.. the attainment of Buddhahood in our present form.

Once again, he states it clearly and without any amount of chanting or time passage: our Buddhahood "becomes manifest" at the point when we "have encountered the Lotus Sutra and chanted the daimoku."

You have always been and will always be the true Buddha: to be a living being is to be the true Buddha. More detail on this in the 7th section below on Gradualism.

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

Chas sounds like s half-lit evangelist !! A zealot who has consistently scoffed at Nichirens authentic writings because they are filled with praise for the eternal Buddha Shakyamuni ! Chas shills for SGIKEDA - a cult of personality bearing no resemblance to anything Buddhist.

Tick .. tick... tick ...

~ Katie

[Chas.]

On Monday, November 27, 2017 at 11:03:26 PM UTC-8, Katie Higgins wrote:
> What you don’t GET is what Nichiren actually said/ write taught - why? Because your “ main corpus “ is a small collection of disputed / forged / poorly translated writings.
[snip]

Two things.

1) How can you mis-translate away the meaning of those Lotus Sutra quotes where the Buddha EXPLICITLY describes his kin (17 of them), who were in the Great Buddha Lotus Sutra-preaching role before and concurrent to him elsewhere?

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren/jeDhDwSGoFE/-AaHXYawBgAJ

You cannot, because his words were specifically placed in the Buddha's highest teaching of the Lotus Sutra to disarm and dethrone your false deification of him as a man-God like Jesus, or as God Almighty Creator of Heaven and Earth, like Jehovah.

Do you have an alternate translation that samys something else? I would call into doubt THAT TRANSLATION.

2) As I have said before, the authenticity of any document or Gohonzon can only be challenged with the absolutely best kind of science: (a) the kind of imaging that spotted the scraped off and overwritten Archimedes Palimpsest underneath the biblical texts and (b) the kind of AMS carbon dating using a particle accelerator that separates out carbon-14 atoms by counting the atoms themselves and not by counting their decay products on a detector.

[BTW, AMS carbon dating only requires 250 micrograms (like 4 grains of salt) of final carbon and can get better than 1 part in 200 of the final identified sample age: for Nichiren Daishonin's era that's a precision of around 4 years. That precision is independent of sample size, but mixing materials (in the original construction of the sample artifact, or in sample preparation) reduces the precision, which is obtained by integrating over (counting atoms) differently-aged population carbon isotope peak distributions in the mass spectrum:

[Katie Higgins]

Chas is suggesting Nichiren’s clear writings on Shakyamuni cannot be taken literally ?

Chas is claiming that his interpretation of a passage from the Lotus Sutra is the foundation for disregarding Nichiren’s clear writing as “ not what Nichiren meant “!!??

Chas display of arrogance is beyond the pale !

~ Katie

[Chas.]

However, your scholars are slandering Buddhists who I would not trust as far as I could throw them. They are completely disputable claims.

Scientific measurement by AMS carbon dating and the kind of scientific verification methods that find forgeries and doctoring in the art and ancient document world (such as the analysis of the Archimedes Palimpsest), these are repeatable objective methods that cannot be challenged.

Are you challenging scientific methods, and stating that subjective analysis by questionable authorities is better? Get real. Your unwillingness to submit to objective scientific analysis shows that you are hiding the truth.

-Chas.