The Devil of the Sixth Heaven has replaced the Buddha in Chas' mind

[Mark Rogow]

"Shakyamuni Buddha is like the one moon in the sky, and the various other Buddhas, bodhisattvas, and beings are like the reflections floating on ten thousand different bodies of water. Thus a person who fashions a single image of Shakyamuni Buddha is in effect making images of all the Buddhas of the worlds in the ten directions." ("The Buddha Statue Fashioned by Nichigen-nyo)

"Shakyamuni Buddha has declared, “Now this threefold world is all my domain, and the living beings in it are all my children. Now this place is beset by many pains and trials. I am the only person who can rescue and protect others.” For this reason, Shakyamuni acts as the sovereign for all the living beings in this country of Japan, as their teacher, and as their parent.

The seven reigns of the heavenly deities, the five reigns of the earthly deities, and the ninety reigns of human rulers of Japan—all these deities and rulers have been followers of Shakyamuni Buddha, to say nothing of the retainers of these deities and rulers. All the land of this present-day country of Japan, its mountains and rivers, its oceans, its plants and trees are all the treasures of Shakyamuni Buddha. There is not a single jot of them that belongs to the Buddhas of other worlds such as Medicine Master or Amida. Moreover, the heavenly deities, the earthly deities, and the ninety reigns of human sovereigns of Japan, along with the common people, the cows and horses, and in fact every living being that is born, is a child of Shakyamuni Buddha, the lord of teachings. In addition, the fact that the heavenly and earthly deities, human rulers, and the common people of Japan can make the proper distinctions regarding heaven and earth, water and fire, parents, sovereign, men and women, wives and children, black and white, is due entirely to the fact that Shakyamuni Buddha, the lord of teachings, has been their teacher. It is in no way due to the teachings of any of the other Buddhas such as Medicine Master or Amida." (Condolences on a Deceased Husband)

"Moreover, now when everyone else in Japan has abandoned Shakyamuni Buddha, what roots of goodness from the past, I wonder, account for your believing in the Lotus Sutra and Shakyamuni Buddha,..." (The Eighth Day)

"The oral tradition says that the Buddha can become grass and trees. This means that the Shakyamuni Buddha of the “Life Span” chapter can manifest himself in grass and trees. The Lotus Sutra speaks of “the Thus Come One’s secret and his transcendental powers.” There is nothing in the entire realm of phenomena that is not the manifestation of the Thus Come One Shakyamuni." (The Enlightenment of Plants)

These passages from the Gosho are crystal clear. Eternal Shakyamuni Buddha is our original teacher to whom Nichiren’s reverence knows no bounds. Why do the Taisekaji sects fail to embrace the Lotus Sutra and Nichiren’s words? Could it be that the Devil of the Sixth Heaven has replaced Shakyamuni Buddha in their minds? This delusion, in the minds of these men, can be demonstrated by their behaviors:


“They will tear off the first part of the Sutra and stick it on the end, tear off the end and put it at the begining, put the end and the begining in the middle and the begining at the middle or end. You must understand that these evil monks are the companions of the devil.” (MW vol 2, Opening Of The Eyes, pg 1 180)

Their causes are revealed:

“There is a difference if one chants the daimoku while acting against the intent of this Sutra.” (MW vol 3, The Fourteen Slanders, pg 207)

“Those who practice Buddhism but adhere to distorted views destroy this loftiest of Sutras.” (MW vol 5, Reply to Soya Nyudo, pg 164).

and their effects:

“Unfilial children however are not allowed to succeed their parents.” (MW vol 3, Letter to Nichinyo, pg 49);

How can this be remedied?:

“In the same way, one who chants the daimoku as the Lotus Sutra teaches will never have a twisted mind.” (MW vol 5, Letter to Myomitsu Shonin, pg 196)

“Those who seek the truth of Buddhism, however, should reject one sided views whether they are of their own sects or other sects and should not treat others with contempt.” (MW vol 2, Opening Of The Eyes, pg 167)

“One should use the Sutras as his eyes and give precedence to the wisdom of the Buddha. Surely however, if this standard is made clear people will become enraged and harbor indignation in their minds. Let them do as they will. What matters most is that we honor the Buddha’s command. As a rule people in the world value what is distant and despise what is near, but this is the conduct of the ignorant. Even the distant should be repudiated if it is wrong, while that which is near should not be discarded if it accords with the truth. Even though people may revere (their predecessors doctrines), if those doctrines are in error, how can we employ them today”. (MW vol 4, Reply to Hoshina Goro Taro, pg 42-43)

Mark

[Chas.]

On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 5:21:58 PM UTC-7, Mark Rogow wrote:
> The most perverse sect at the time of Nichiren was Tendai [Mikkyo] which mixed Lotus Sutra Buddhism and Shingon. Today, we have a similar problem but NST and SGI ...

[snip]

You are projecting. It is you and your Shinto-ized version of Hinduistic statue-worshiping distortion of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism that is clearly a corruption. Nichiren Daishonin declared the Gohonzon as the supreme object of worship throughout Jambudvipa, not your pictures and statues. They do not possess the true aspect.

From "The True Aspect of All Phenomena", WND I, p. 383-385:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/40#para-3

... NO ONE BUT NICHIREN has ever revealed teachings like these.
... Though T’ien-t’ai, Miao-lo, and Dengyō knew about them in
... their hearts, they never put them into words. They went
... about their lives keeping this knowledge to themselves. And
... there was good reason for this. The Buddha had not
... entrusted them with the task, the time had not yet come,
... and they had not been the Buddha’s disciples from the
... distant past. Only Superior Practices, Boundless Practices,
... and the other foremost leaders and guiding teachers among
... the Bodhisattvas of the Earth cannot only appear during the
... first five hundred years of the Latter Day of the Law and
... spread the five characters of Myoho-renge-kyo, the essence
... of all phenomena, BUT ALSO GIVE CONCRETE FORM TO THE
... CEREMONY OF THE TWO BUDDHAS SEATED SIDE BY SIDE IN THE
... TREASURE TOWER. The reason is that what they are to spread
... and give concrete form to is none other than the teaching
... of the actual three thousand realms in a single moment of
... life in the “Life Span” chapter of the essential teaching.
...

1. "No one but Nichiren" has revealed these teachings, not even Shakyamuni, Lord of Teachings, who is negatively included with all others in the phrase "no one".

It was no one else's mission, but Nichiren Daishonin to reveal the highest truth hidden at the heart of the Lotus Sutra. Nichiren Daishonin explains this in various other places as due to the time, however, it is also due to who Nichiren Daishonin is.

Nichiren Daishonin is the man for that moment, who turns that wheel that makes the new era of the Latter Day of the Law or Mappo, by revealing the truth that no one else can reveal.

This is the man Iain calls a "latter commentator", and who I call Daishonin or True Buddha. Nichiren Daishonin is the revealer, not the commentator, oddly, that role is left to Shakyamuni who predicted Nichiren Daishonin's revelation of the heart of the Lotus Sutra: the heart of the highest teaching.

The heart of the highest teaching that he reveals is not indicated directly in any quote in the Lotus Sutra, such that you can actually logically prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that what Nichiren Daishonin reveals is the truth.

The truth of the Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra, as in all far lesser religious truths, is not logically deduced or induced, but is based on faith alone: however, in both the Western and Eastern worlds, Reason includes both Logic AND Faith.

Hence, faith-based logic is reasonable, unless you are without faith, then that logic is not reasonable and makes no sense whatsoever.

Faith in this case implies practice, you have to chant Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo to come to believe in it and experience the result to gain faith.

2. However, before you can have faith in the power of the daimoku, you had to have faith in Nichiren Daishonin, who reveals that highest truth, you would have to have faith in the mentor, that he is revealing to you, the disciple, the absolute truth and nothing else. Otherwise, your practice of the Lotus Sutra would be Tendai, and simple recitation of its chapters to your statues.

Not having faith in Nichiren Daishonin, since you had never heard of him, you had to have faith in the mentor that introduced you, or taught you to chant, or led the first district meeting you went to, or ... whoever the bodhisattva was: that person had faith in the daimoku, the Gohonzon and hence, that Nichiren Daishonin was in fact, completely right! The disciple first receives faith in the veracity of Nichiren Daishonin (or an echo of it) from their mentor.

3. "Only Superior Practices, Boundless Practices, and the other foremost leaders and guiding teachers among the Bodhisattvas of the Earth ..." "... also give concrete form to the ceremony of the two Buddhas seated side by side in the treasure tower." That concrete form is the Gohonzon, the highest object of worship.

Shakyamuni not only cannot reveal the highest teaching ... also, he cannot enscribe the Gohonzon.

Why? Because it is not his mission given by the eternal Buddha. That was given to the very first of the Bodhisattvas of the Earth, Nichiren Daishonin, as the embodiment of Superior Practices, or Jogyo.

This means you either trust what Nichiren Daishonin says and choose the Gohonzon as your highest object of worship to chant the daimoku to, or distrust Nichiren Daishonin and chant the daimoku to your statues. You will however, have to choose which path to take, with hell to pay upon your mistaken choice.

... THEREFORE, THE TWO BUDDHAS, SHAKYAMUNI AND MANY TREASURES,
... ARE BUDDHAS WHO ARE FUNCTIONS [OF MYOHO-RENGE-KYO]. IT IS
... MYOHO-RENGE-KYO THAT IS THE TRUE BUDDHA. This is what is
... described in the sutra as “the Thus Come One’s secret and
... his transcendental powers.” THE “THUS COME ONE’S SECRET”
... REFERS TO THE ENTITY OF THE BUDDHA’S THREE BODIES, AND IT
... REFERS TO THE TRUE BUDDHA. “His transcendental powers”
... refers to the functions of the three bodies, and it refers
... to provisional Buddhas. A COMMON MORTAL IS AN ENTITY OF THE
... THREE BODIES, AND A TRUE BUDDHA. A Buddha is a function of
... the three bodies, and a provisional Buddha. In that case,
... though it is thought that Shakyamuni Buddha possesses the
... three virtues of sovereign, teacher, and parent for the
... sake of all of us living beings, that is not so. ON THE
... CONTRARY, IT IS COMMON MORTALS WHO ENDOW HIM WITH THE THREE
... VIRTUES.
...

4. "Therefore, the two Buddhas, Shakyamuni and Many Treasures, are Buddhas who are functions [of Myoho-renge-kyo]. It is Myoho-renge-kyo that is the true Buddha."

Shakyamuni (and Taho) are functions of the eternal Buddha, Myoho-Renge-Kyo, which we invoke in the daimoku.

Is that crystal clear? If you chant the daimoku, you have to have faith that Nichiren Daishonin is correct, otherwise Myoho-Renge-Kyo would not be the eternal Buddha: and if you accept that, then Shakyamuni would not be a function of Myoho-Renge-Kyo.

You cannot have it both ways, you must give up the supremacy of Shakyamuni and stop chanting to images of him, since you cannot chant the highest teaching hidden in the Lotus Sutra that was revealed by Nichiren Daishonin unless you agree with him on this completely central point. Stop chanting to functions, and chant to the Gohonzon.

5. These three phrases (a through c, below) refer to the common mortal, or true Buddha, which Nichiren Daishonin is, and also you and I as well as every common mortal. Common mortals in the Mappo era, after Nichiren Daishonin revealed the truth, are also Bodhisattvas of the Earth, according to Josei Toda.

Here's the proof of Nichiren Daishonin's point.

a. '“Thus Come One’s secret” refers to the entity of the Buddha’s three bodies, and it refers to the true Buddha.'

b. "A common mortal is an entity of the three bodies, and a true Buddha."


c. "On the contrary, it is common mortals who endow him [Shakyamuni] with the three virtues."

6. These two phrases (d and e) refer to provisional Buddhas like Shakyamuni, who are functions of the three bodies of the true Buddha.

d. '“His transcendental powers” refers to the functions of the three bodies, and it refers to provisional Buddhas.'

e. 'A Buddha is a function of the three bodies, and a provisional Buddha. In that case, though it is thought that Shakyamuni Buddha possesses the three virtues of sovereign, teacher, and parent for the sake of all of us living beings, that is not so.'

... The “Thus Come One” is explained clearly in T’ien-t’ai’s
... commentary as follows: “The Thus Come One is a general
... designation for the Buddhas of the ten directions and the
... three existences, for the two Buddhas, the three Buddhas,
... the true Buddha, and provisional Buddhas.” THE “TRUE
... BUDDHA” HERE MEANS COMMON MORTALS, WHEREAS “PROVISIONAL
... BUDDHAS” MEANS BUDDHAS. However, because of the difference
... between ordinary people and Buddhas that stems from the
... disparity between delusion and enlightenment, ordinary
... people are unaware that they are endowed with both the
... entity and the functions of the three bodies.
...

'The “true Buddha” here means common mortals, whereas “provisional Buddhas” means Buddhas.'

That is another direct quote making this very point again. Clear and straightforward and unmistakable.

The common mortal is the true Buddha, whereas Shakyamuni and Many Treasures in all their eternal glory as inscribed on the Gohonzon, are functions of the entity that is any common mortal enveloped in his or her delusion.

That means that if a statue worshiper really wanted to enshrine a more proper image to chant to, it would be the picture of a drunk or a hooker on the street: better that, than just a FUNCTION of that true Buddha, that very human being.

This is why we don't chant to images, since images cannot have the true aspect, only the Gohonzon has the true aspect, which means without having aspect (from the Immeasurable Meanings Sutra, without which the Lotus Sutra would lack the clear understanding of true aspect, and would therefore be less complete.)

... “All phenomena” in the sutra refers to the Ten Worlds, and
... the “true aspect,” to what they actually are. THE “TRUE
... ASPECT” IS ANOTHER NAME FOR MYOHO-RENGE-KYO; hence all
... phenomena are Myoho-renge-kyo. Hell’s displaying the form
... of hell is its true aspect. When hell changes into the
... realm of hungry spirits, that is no longer the true form of
... hell. A Buddha displays the form of a Buddha, and a common
... mortal, that of a common mortal. The entities of all
... phenomena are entities of Myoho-renge-kyo. That is the
... meaning of “the true aspect of all phenomena.” T’ien-t’ai
... states that the profound principle of the true aspect is
... the originally inherent Myoho-renge-kyo. This
... interpretation identifies the phrase “true aspect” with the
... theoretical teaching and “the originally inherent
... Myoho-renge-kyo” with the essential teaching. You should
... ponder this interpretation deep in your heart.
...

'The “true aspect” is another name for Myoho-renge-kyo; hence all phenomena are Myoho-renge-kyo.'

This is the fruit of the clear understanding of that description of true aspect.

If the true aspect was an image of Shakyamuni, then it could not be Myoho-Renge-Kyo, because Myoho-Renge-Kyo is without aspect, you cannot view it from any point and see an aspect.

Also, then all entities and phenomena could not be the true entity of Myoho-Renge-Kyo, without having the aspect of Shakyamuni, were Shakyamuni's image the true aspect.

All phenomena are the true aspect AND Myoho-Renge-Kyo, precisely because the true aspect means without having the aspect of any specific or particular entity.

This also, BTW explains that passage with all of the negations from the Immeasurable Meanings Sutra:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/lsoc/Prologue/1#para-23

'his body neither existing nor not existing,
neither caused nor conditioned, neither self nor other,
neither square nor round, neither short nor long,
neither appearing nor disappearing, neither born nor extinguished,
neither created nor arising, neither acted nor made,
neither sitting nor lying down, neither walking nor standing,
neither moving nor turning, neither idle nor still,
neither advancing nor retreating, neither in safety nor danger,
neither right nor wrong, neither gaining nor losing,
neither that nor this, neither departing nor coming,
neither blue nor yellow, neither red nor white,
neither crimson nor purple nor any other sort of color'

This is all straightforward and clear from the reading of the supreme teaching and the Gosho.

... Although not worthy of the honor, I, Nichiren, was
... nevertheless the first to spread the Mystic Law entrusted
... to Bodhisattva Superior Practices for propagation in the
... Latter Day of the Law. I was also the first, though only
... Bodhisattva Superior Practices is so empowered, to inscribe
... [the object of devotion as] the embodiment of Shakyamuni
... Buddha from the remote past as revealed in the “Life Span”
... chapter of the essential teaching, of Many Treasures Buddha
... who appeared when the “Treasure Tower” chapter of the
... theoretical teaching was preached, and of the Bodhisattvas
... of the Earth who arrived with the “Emerging from the Earth”
... chapter. Though people may hate me, they cannot possibly
... alter the fact of my enlightenment.
...

Nichiren Daishonin enscribed all of those onto the Gohonzon. Not onto an image of Shakyamuni. Shakyamuni could not reveal the daimoku at the heart of the Lotus Sutra, not inscribe the Gohonzon, according to Nichiren Daishonin, who did both.

... Therefore, to have exiled me, Nichiren, to this remote
... island is, I believe, an offense that can never be
... expiated, even with the passing of countless kalpas. A
... passage from the “Simile and Parable” chapter reads, “If I
... were to describe the punishments [that fall on persons who
... slander this sutra], I could exhaust a kalpa and never come
... to the end.” On the other hand, not even the wisdom of the
... Buddha can fathom the blessings that one will obtain by
... giving alms to Nichiren and by becoming his disciple and
... lay supporter. The sutra reads, “[The benefits he gains
... thereby will be such that] even the Buddha wisdom could
... never finish calculating their extent.”
...

Hence, slanderers, who deny the very intent of this sutra, which is its heart, commit"

"an offense that can never be expiated, even with the passing of countless kalpas."

However, there is hope even for them, because:

'The sutra reads, “[The benefits he gains thereby will be such that] even the Buddha wisdom could never finish calculating their extent.”'

... Nichiren alone took the lead in carrying out the task of
... the Bodhisattvas of the Earth. He may even be one of them.
... If Nichiren is to be counted among the Bodhisattvas of the
... Earth, then so must his disciples and lay supporters. The
... sutra states: “If one [of these good men or good women in
... the time after I have passed into extinction] is able to
... secretly expound the Lotus Sutra to one person, even one
... phrase of it, then you should know that he or she is the
... envoy of the Thus Come One. He has been dispatched by the
... Thus Come One and carries out the Thus Come One’s work.”
... Who else but us can this possibly refer to?

___________________________________________________________

On Friday, June 10, 2016 at 9:47:28 AM UTC-7, ilovedr...@gmail.com wrote:
> Chas, you forgot to take note:
>
> Let's look into "The Real Aspect of the Gohonzon", and see what Nichiren teaches us.
>
> "This mandala is in no way my invention. It is the object of devotion that depicts Shakyamuni Buddha, the World Honored One, seated in the treasure tower of Many treasures Buddha, and the Buddhas who were Shakyamuni's emanations as perfectly as a print matches its print block."
>

Your argument is a non sequitor and is sign of your fallacious reasoning and mental corruption. I never claimed that Nichiren Daishonin invented the Gohonzon, which is a depiction of the ceremony in the air at the moment that the Law is passed from the mentor (Shakyamuni) to the disciples (Bodhisattvas of the Earth, chiefly Jogyo Superior Practices, who is Nichiren Daishonin).

Nichiren Daishonin is the common mortal, who is the true Buddha, as are you and myself. Shakyamuni is a function of our true Buddhahood, this is what Nichiren Daishonin says. Take it or leave it. If you leave it, you cannot believe in the daimoku, which Nichiren Daishonin revealed and that you have to take on faith. He sadi it, I didn't, why do you want to thwart what he says so clearly with all this flak? Just accept it.

According to the Ongi Kuden and thus Nichiren Daishonin, the Record of the Orally Transmitted Teachings: the Lotus Sutra in the Parable of the Phantom City chapter identifies the eternal Buddha (the Buddha of Limitless Joy, AKA the Buddha of Beginningless Time) as the grandfather of Shakyamuni, who as one of the sixteen princes, was the son of Great Universal Wisdom Excellence Thus Come One, son of "the grandfather".

http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/ott/PART-1/7#para-15

... The Record of the Orally Transmitted Teachings says: In
... this passage we learn about the Buddha of the original
... state [that is, the Buddha of limitless joy]. “Grandfather”
... is another name for the Dharma-realm. The first three of
... the ten factors listed in the “Expedient Means” chapter,
... the factors of appearance, nature, and entity, are referred
... to as “grandfather.” Outside of these three factors, there
... is no wheel-turning sage king.
...
... The word “wheel-turning” refers to the phases of birth,
... abiding, change, and extinction. The words “sage king”
... refer to the element of the mind. These three factors,
... appearance, nature, and entity, are the father and mother
... of all the Buddhas of the three existences of past,
... present, and future.
...
... Now, when Nichiren and his followers chant
... Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, they are acting as father and mother
... of the Buddhas of the three existences, as their
... grandfather, the wheel-turning sage king.

That passage refers to this one, the one and only reference to "the grandfather", where the son and father of Shakyamuni, Great Universal Wisdom Excellence, attains enlightenment when "the Law of the buddhas finally appeared before him" :

The Parable of the Phantom City, LS-7, pp 156-157:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/lsoc/Content/7#para-35

... “Now, monks, the buddha Great Universal Wisdom Excellence
... passed ten small kalpas before the Law of the buddhas
... finally appeared before him and he attained supreme perfect
... p.157enlightenment. Before this buddha left the
... householder’s life, he had sixteen sons, the first of whom
... was named Wisdom Accumulated. These sons each had various
... kinds of rare objects and toys of one kind or another, but
... when they heard that their father had attained supreme
... perfect enlightenment, they all threw aside their rare
... objects and went to where the buddha was. Their mothers,
... weeping, followed after them.
...
... “Their grandfather, who was a wheel-turning sage king,
... along with a hundred chief ministers, as well as a hundred,
... thousand, ten thousand, million of his subjects, all
... together surrounded the sons and followed them to the place
... of enlightenment, all wishing to draw close to the thus
... come one Great Universal Wisdom Excellence, to offer alms,
... pay honor, venerate, and praise him. When they arrived,
... they bowed before his feet, touching their heads to the
... ground.

Aside from that, who knows, I don't. As far as I can tell, the eternal Buddha has no person otherwise identified in the Lotus Sutra. Shakyamuni attained enlightenment after his father.

At any rate, who was first hardly matters, unless you want to worship a statue of the first enlightened one.

I am satisfied that the Buddha leading our regiment of the Bodhisattvas of the Earth is Nichiren Daishonin, AKA Jogyo Superior Practices. He is the mentor whose Gosho I have made my mentor. I practice as he says and only that way. I worship no person and images of no person.

I worship the Gohonzon of the True Aspect of all Phenomena, which, BTW is a topic none of you have touched on, although I have elucidated it fully for your edification.

> "It is also stated that the profound principle of the true aspect is the originally inherent Myoho-renge-kyo.[Lotus sutra Chap.2] The Great Teacher Dengyo said, "A single moment of life comprising the three thousand realms is itself the Buddha of limitless joy. this Buddha has forsaken august appearances." [The Treatise on the Secret and Sacred Teachings]
>
>

Are you listening to yourself? The Buddha of Limitless Joy is without aspect, just as I quoted.

Not a statue of Shakyamuni. Get it?

> Do you need page#'s-- not sure which text you have.
>
> IF Nichiren were the Original Buddha, teacher of Shakyamuni, WHY wouldn't he claim credit for the SOURCE of the Gohonzon as "his own invention"?
>
> OR REVEAL the identity you claim is is TRUE identity?
>

Didn't claim that. Putting words in my mouth is lying. Don't do that.

All common mortals are the true Buddha, led by Nichiren Daishonin. Nichiren Daishonin is the leader of the Bodhisattvas of the Earth, AKA Jogyo.

> With your own presumptions,You, Chas are identifying Nichiren as a cunning, duplicitous teacher-- when it is your Sensei who has earned that title a million times over!!
>

This is a pile of crap and wierd supposition, avoid it Katie.

> And that is the crux of the matter. You lost your true mind before you posted your first comment on this site---such is the fate of those who "follow evil teachers".
>
[snip the rest.]
_________________________________________________________

On Saturday, June 25, 2016 at 8:56:22 AM UTC-7, Katie Higgins wrote:
> How fortunate that we can possess and chant to an *authentic* Gohonzon inscribed by Nichiren's own hand...
>

These Gohonzon were received from the hands of an entire line of priests that betrayed Nichiren Daishonin and turned to Shinto-ized Hinduistic cult worship of images that Shakyamuni himself would have spurned, and ancient practices that were before Nichiren Daishonin turned the wheel to create the new era: of the Latter Day of the Law.

Receiving distortions of Nichiren's Buddhism and then Nichiren's stolen Gohonzon from evil priests worshiping in ancient and now-dead practices will incur instead a serious admonition from the Daishonin.

Cause and effect rules the world. You cannot steal Gohonzon and then expect benefit from distortions of the founder's practice.

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

Hey, Chas-- RE: "According to the Ongi Kuden and thus Nichiren Daishonin, the Record of the Orally Transmitted Teachings: the Lotus Sutra in the Parable of the Phantom City chapter identifies the eternal Buddha (the Buddha of Limitless Joy, AKA the Buddha of Beginningless Time) as the grandfather of Shakyamuni, who as one of the sixteen princes, was the son of Great Universal Wisdom Excellence Thus Come One, son of "the grandfather".


FYI:
SATURDAY, DECEMBER 26, 2015
More proof that the Ongi Kuden is a forgery
In the Ongi Kuden we read:

“This Myoho-renge-kyo (Lotus Sutra) is not Shakyamuni’s Mystic Law, because at the time this chapter was preached, he had already entrusted it to Bodhisattva Jogyo.” (Gosho, p. 1783)

In the Kanjin Honzon Sho (The True Object of Worship), the most important writing of Nichiren Daishonin, we read,

“Having thus manifested the ten divine powers, Sakyamuni Buddha transmitted the five charecters of Myo, Ho, Ren, Ge, and Kyo to the original disciples since the eternal past, who had sprung up from under ground.” Kanjin Honzon Sho, pp 122 to 140, NOPPA 1991.

and in the Lotus Sutra we read:

“At that time the Buddha spoke to Superior Practices and the others in the great assembly of bodhisattvas, saying: “The supernatural powers of the Buddhas, as you have seen, are immeasurable, boundless, inconceivable. If in the process of entrusting this sutra (Myoho renge kyo) to others I were to employ these supernatural powers for a measurable, boundless hundreds, thousands, ten thousands, millions of asamkhya kalpas to describe the benefits of the sutra, I could never finish doing so. To put it briefly, all the doctrines possessed by the Thus Come One, the storehouse of all the secret essentials of the Thus Come One – all these are proclaimed, revealed, and clearly expounded in this sutra.”(Myoho renge kyo). (Lotus Sutra Chapter 21)

You can read more about this in: “Some Disputed Writings in the Nichiren Corpus” by Jacqueline Stone. John Petry has summarized some of the salient points [edited]:

1).The Ongi Kuden is not in Nikko’s hand nor is it ever mentioned (“again”) by him. There is no authentic seal of Nichiren (colophon) except for a later legendary accretion referencing a serpent who was to have appeared to Nichiren and Nikko as he was lecturing on the Devedatta Chapter.
2). It is supposed to be based on the Chu Hokkekyo, the authentic Annotated Lotus Sutra of Nichiren, the original copy exists on Mt. Minobu. The problem is it doesn’t conform well to it. Only 23 passages of the 133 passages from the Chu Hokekyo appear in the Ongi Kuden.
3). No mention of the Ongi Kuden or the Ongi Kikagaki occurs before Nitcho’s Keiun Sho in 1503. These were competing texts used by opposing sides in the Nichiren ichi-shoretsu debates (the harmony of the 28 chapters of the Lotus Sutra versus the superiority of the essential teachings debate), held at this time. “Dueling Oral Teachings”
4). The Ongi Kuden mirrors the writings of the Tendai sect. They employ the Tendai sect formulations of Kanjin style interpretations of “progression” and “resemblance and reversal” to represent concepts found commonly in Chuko Tendai (original enlightenment) doctrine. These conflict with the authenticated writings of Nichiren, most notably, the Kanjin Honzon Sho, as seen above.
5). The text contains comments regarding events that did not exist at the time of the supposed lectures:
A). For example the Ongi Kuden refers to the “six senior disciples” but Nichiren did not designate these six senior disciples until a few days before his death, some years later
B). According to scholars and priests of the orthodox sects, it refers to Nichiren as the “eminent founder,” a term which did not come into usage until well after Nichiren and Nikko died.
C). The text of the Ongi Kuden also refers to a document which was written some 13 years after Nichiren’s death, the “K’o-chu” which is a Yuan-dynasty commentary on the Lotus Sutra by Hsu Hsing-shan dated Yuan-chen 1 (1295).
D). Finally the date it was supposedly approved by Nichiren (who then affixed his seal), is the first month of the first year of Koan but the era changed its name from Kenji to Koan on the 29th day of the second month. There was no first month of Koan.
E). Additionally during the time the lectures supposedly took place and Nikko was supposedly transcribing them, he was not at Minobu where the lectures were held. He was in the Fuji area on a shakabuku campaign.
6). John Petry wrote: “The Nichiren Shoshu has pointed to a reference in another writing in a text by a Fuji school priest in the 1600′s referencing the existence of a transcript of lectures given by Nichiren in his life time but there is nothing in that reference to indicate what document he is referring to or even whether it was simply a copy of the Ongi Kuden or the Onko Kikigaki which were known to exist at right around 1500.”
7). Nichiren disparaged oral teachings. Since the core Taisekaji doctrines can not be found in the authentic Gosho, the Oral Teachings as well as many forged Gosho were invented by them. [above 7 points paraphrased by John Petry]

Here are the words of Nichiren, from Repaying Debts of Gratitude, on the Secret Dharma of the Object of Worship:

“The first is the object of worship (honzon). All the people in Japan as well as the rest of the whole world should revere the Lord Buddha Shayamuni (Original and eternal Buddha) revealed in the essential section (honmon) of the Lotus Sutra as the object of worship (honzon)…”

Then again in the True Object of Worship, we read:

“Shakyamuni Buddha, the Lord-preacher of this pure land, has never died in the past, nor will He be born in the future. He exists forever throughout the past present and future.”

In the “Senji Sho”, Nichiren says, regarding his ability to have made his predicition about the Mongol invasion:

“It was not I, Nichiren, who made these three important predicitions. I believe it was solely the spirit of Shakyamuni Buddha, entering my body, who made them.”


*Note: "The True Aspect of All Phenomena" is not authentic--

Perhaps, your Soka Spirit movement should look into the REAL reasons for denouncing Nichiren Shoshu--

You can thank them for your *most* of your erroneous , slanderous doctrines--

RE: Admonitions from Nichiren are well documented in his writings. Those of us who read and study them, take your fear mongering crap with a grain of salt.

Wake up, Chas!!!

~Katie

[Chas.]

On Thursday, June 30, 2016 at 1:45:46 AM UTC-7, Katie Higgins wrote:

> *Note: "The True Aspect of All Phenomena" is not authentic--
>

[snipped]

> ~Katie

I notice that every writing of Nichiren Daishonin that points out that you (Katie) are practicing slander of the Law, is by your lights, faked.

Seems like a suspicious pattern to me.

You have your own private version of the Gosho.

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

Cult members are easily threatened and understandably alarmed when clear evidence is presented to them that destroys the sketchy foundation of their delusional utopia.

Nothing suspicious about your pattern of behavior, Chas-- straight out of Cult Watch 101

~Katie
.

[iainx...@gmail.com]

"I notice that every writing of Nichiren Daishonin that points out that you (Katie) are practicing slander of the Law, is by your lights, faked.

Seems like a suspicious pattern to me.

You have your own private version of the Gosho.

-Chas."

Chas, you presented the same Gosho as you most feeble attempt to argue mentor-disciple and use of labels, jubilantly proclaiming "you were born a Buddha!". Because I was so entertained, I refrained labouring the point about it's disputed status. I also refrained from asking you how you reconcile your veuw that "I was born a Buddha" and presumably everyone else was based on this Gosho and Mr Ikeda's teaching that unless one follows the way of mentor-disciple they cannot attain Buddhahood?

How can one not attain what one already is by birth? Please explain this to the forum now and we'll then relate your answer back to what you have argued before in the relevant threads.

I await a clear and concise answer from you.

Be well :)

[Chas.]

On Friday, July 1, 2016 at 9:53:05 AM UTC-7, iainx...@gmail.com wrote:

[snip]

> How can one not attain what one already is by birth? Please explain this to the forum now and we'll then relate your answer back to what you have argued before in the relevant threads.
>
> I await a clear and concise answer from you.

Buddhahood is the manifestation of your true nature.

You were given the three bodies of the Buddha by your parents, your true nature is that of the true Buddha.

Your true nature is that as a common mortal you are the true Buddha of Kuon Ganjo, the Buddha of beginningless time, who has been eternally endowed with the three bodies—the Dharma body, the reward body, and the manifested body, thereby embodying the eternal Law or the ultimate truth of life and the universe:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/dic/Content/B/84#para-0
Also, the common mortal is the Buddha of absolute freedom, which is the Buddha of limitless joy:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/dic/Content/B/83#para-0
Also, the common mortal is the Buddha of limitless joy, which Nichiren regarded as Nam-myoho-renge-kyo:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/dic/Content/B/89#para-0

Buddhahood is the result of the hard work of practicing Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra, and requires the abolition of slander of the Law, because slandering the Law undermines your Buddhahood.

You cannot build a castle, while tearing it down.

This is the heritage of the Law, that is the property of every living being.

You don't need a priest [which Alex and the Nichiren Shoshu people maintain,] to manifest your Buddhahood.

You do need to practice propely to manifest your Buddhahood, and that means no statues or images on the altar, which denies the true aspect. Once again this passage that Katie and Mark spurn in their corrupted ignorance:

-Chas.

[Chas.]

Going out of town until 7/5, hope y'all won't miss me too much.

-Chas.

[iainx...@gmail.com]

But Chas, you said in this thread:

1)

https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren/rndfISdEPvw

"Chanting the daimoku instantly manifests Buddhahood. Yes."

And yet you have consistently supported and defended Mr Ikeda when he teaches "if you forget the way of mentor-disciple you cannot attain buddhahood".

Question 1: Please explain the contradiction between you statement and Mr Ikeda's teaching. Have you got it wrong or has he?

2)

You said in the same thread:

"What are the characteristics of a Buddha? They are the characteristics of a bodhisattva doing Kosen-Rufu: doing shakubuku, pursuing activities with the Sangha (the SGI) to widely propagate Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra. Affirming the vow all bodhisattvas of the earth make in the ceremony of the air to receive the Law, protect it and spread it widely."

And you also said:

"The SGI history and struggle is not a "mythology", it is a fact."

Using SGI's membership figures, which the SGI itself publishes, it's membership has declined by almost half in the 28 years to 2016, 25 of which Mr Ikeda has been in sole charge of guiding and teaching the SGI as it's mentor.

If SGI history and struggle is fact, then it's published membership and the decline of 40% from 20 million in 1988 to 12 million in 2016 are part of that factual history, if not they are part of mythology.

Question 2: How does such a decline show widespread propgation or demonstrate the qualities of a Buddha or bodhisattva doing Kosen-Rufu?

Today there are after all by SGI's figures 40% less SGI members:

"pursuing activities with the Sangha (the SGI) to widely propagate Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra"

than there were in 1988.

In real terms, this decline is greater because in that same 28 year period the number of people on the planet has increased from 5.1billion to 7.4 billion today. That's an increase of about 45% in the global population during the same period that SGI's membership has dropped by 40%.

Wouldn't one think more people were needed to carry on spreading the Law widely? One would need to have grown by 45% just to keep pace with the rise in global population, not fall backslide.

So if SGI had kept pace, it should be 29 million members strong globally by now, not 12 million members. The SGI is 17 million members short of where it shoild be after 25 years with Mr Ikeda's teaching and guidance, his "way of mentor-disciple".

No doubt, you will offer excuses or lame explainations for why the SGI represents and even smaller proprtion of the global population than it did in 1988 but before you do, let me remind you that according to you:

"What are the characteristics of a Buddha? They are the characteristics of a bodhisattva doing Kosen-Rufu: doing shakubuku, pursuing activities with the Sangha (the SGI) to widely propagate Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra."

And

"Chanting the daimoku instantly manifests Buddhahood. Yes."

So how can this decline, this shortage of 17 million global members, just to keep pace, be a explained if the SGI is truely doing the Buddha's work and if it's leaders are "at one with Nichiren"?

How can this decline in global SGI membership be explained if it's leaders and members share Nichiren's commitment to widely propogate the Sutra and if indeed they are fulfilling their vow?

For 25 years Mr Ikeda and his leadership have guided and run the SGI, is he just not a very good teacher, failing to inspire and guide SGI members to fulfil their vow sufficiently to keep pace with population growth?

Or is it that SGI members themselves aren't very good and that Mr Ikeda, who you have referred to as "amazing" and Mr Ikeda is working with really bad material?

Elsewhere you have referred to SGI members also being your mentors.

Either way, there's less "widespread propogation" going on in the SGI today than in 1988. There's less participation in activities. There's less shakabuku. There less doing kosen rufu, even though there are more people in the world to do it with. 2.1 billion more people to do it with.

If the SGI had grown at a just modest a quarter percent per year across those 28 years, instead of not keeping up and falling way behind, the SGI today would be a much larger organisation, perhaps 40 million members or more. I can't be bothered to do the math but SGI leaders fulfilling their vow should have been.

It's a basic principle, if you're doing it right disricts, chapters, HQ's Areas, Regions and countries all grow. The SGI as a whole grows but it hasn't, it hasn't even kept pace, it has shrunk, declined, lost membership, curtailled it's ability to do kosen rufu.

Why? Because it's not doing it right, it's doing it wrong. Why? Because of an increasing collective lack of faith. Why? Because it is following the teaching and guidance of a man not based on buddhahood, that explicitly encourages SGI members not to base themselves on buddahood, with the collective result the SGI is not based on buddhahood.

The result, not being based on buddhahood, the SGI and it's members cannot do the Buddha's will and cannot fulfil their vow.

Why? Because they are following the way of mentor-disciple, instead of the way of faith, babbling about "the buddha of the SGI", when all the evidence is that no such buddha exists in an organisation that cannot even sustain it's global membership to such an extent it declines by almost half.

Mr Ikeda proclaims that his "mentor Mr Toda cared for the SGI more than his life." He is also fond of telling SGI members how he has dedicated his life to fulfil his mentor's will, almost as fond as SGI members are fond of telling each other and anyone else who will listen, that this is indeed what Mr Ikeda has done.

Mr Ikeda must have really hated Mr Toda to take the "Noble organisation" that his mentor set up and which he cared about more than his own life. Mr Ikeda systematically set about destroying that legacy as soon as he was free to do so and in sole charge by losing almost half it's membership during his 25 year reign as sole head honcho in charge of being the SGI's spiritual leader.

Literally, Mr Ikeda is a loser, a loser of SGI membership on a breathtaking scale, a loser in the struggle for kosen rufu.

SGI, Mr Ikeda has run an organisation, which is very wealthy, politically powerful in Japan, has lots of shiny buildings but that is globally 8 million members down on where it was 28 years ago, 17 million members short of where it should be if it had kept pace with population growth and about 28 million members short of where it would have been if it had actually grown at a modest rate in those 28 years since 1988.

Go figure where the priorities of the "wise and trusted teacher" you call "mentor" lie, one place they don't is with doing kosen rufu, nor for that matter winning.

Go figure who hangs out with slanderers.

Be well :)

[Alex Beauroy]

On 02/07/2016 06:48, Chas. wrote:
> Going out of town until 7/5, hope y'all won't miss me too much.
>
> -Chas.
>

Dream on !!!
Are you going to your monthly training in SGI Headquarters?
Will you be honest to apologize being a cheating troll and not playing
by the rules???
I'm sure you won't!
@lex

[Chas.]

OK, one more little bit before I board the plane.

On Saturday, July 2, 2016 at 1:15:14 AM UTC-7, iainx...@gmail.com wrote:
> But Chas, you said in this thread:
>
> 1)
>
> https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren/rndfISdEPvw
>
> "Chanting the daimoku instantly manifests Buddhahood. Yes."
>
> And yet you have consistently supported and defended Mr Ikeda when he teaches "if you forget the way of mentor-disciple you cannot attain buddhahood".
>
> Question 1: Please explain the contradiction between you statement and Mr Ikeda's teaching. Have you got it wrong or has he?
>

Now, I am going to quote from the Ongi Kuden that Katie, Mark and all traitors to Nichiren Daishonin despise. Has Iain fallen that far down the side of Mt. Fuji, yet? we shall see. From "The Record of the Orally Transmitted Teachings, Chapter Sixteen: The Life Span of the Thus Come One, Twenty-seven important points", p. 124-125:

http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/ott/PART-2/16#para-3
...
... Now it is the understanding of Nichiren and his followers
... that, generally speaking, the term “Thus Come One” refers
... to all living beings. More specifically, it refers to the
... disciples and lay supporters of Nichiren.
...
... This being the case, the term “eternally endowed with the
... three bodies” refers to the votaries of the Lotus Sutra in
... the Latter Day of the Law.
...
... The title of honor for one who is eternally endowed with
... the three bodies is Nam-myoho-renge-kyo. This is what the
... three great concerns of actuality2 of the “Life Span”
... chapter refer to.
...
... Speaking in terms of the six stages of practice, the Thus
... Come One in this chapter is an ordinary mortal who is in
... the first stage, that of being a Buddha in theory. WHEN ONE
... REVERENTLY ACCEPTS NAM-MYOHO-RENGE-KYO, ONE IS IN THE NEXT
... STAGE, that of hearing the name and words of the truth.
... That is, one has for the first time heard the daimoku.
... When, having heard the daimoku, one proceeds to put it into
... practice, this is the third stage, that of perception and
... action. In this stage one perceives the object of devotion
... that embodies the three thousand realms in a single moment
... of life. When one succeeds in overcoming various obstacles
... of illusions, this is the fourth stage, that of resemblance
... to enlightenment. When one sets out to convert others, this
... is the fifth stage, that of progressive awakening. And when
... one comes at last to the realization that one is a Buddha
... eternally endowed with the three bodies, then one is a
... Buddha of the sixth and highest stage, that of ultimate
... enlightenment.
...
... SPEAKING OF THE CHAPTER AS A WHOLE, THE IDEA OF GRADUALLY
... OVERCOMING ILLUSIONS IS NOT THE ULTIMATE MEANING OF THE
... “LIFE SPAN” CHAPTER. YOU SHOULD UNDERSTAND THAT THE
... ULTIMATE MEANING OF THIS CHAPTER IS THAT ORDINARY MORTALS,
... JUST AS THEY ARE IN THEIR ORIGINAL STATES OF BEING, ARE
... BUDDHAS.
...
... And if you ask what is the action or practice carried out
... by the Buddha eternally endowed with the three bodies, it
... is Nam-myoho-renge-kyo.

There are stages of practice, and practice is Buddhahood in Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra. Basically, to my understanding if you are doing Kosen Rufu, you are manifesting your true nature as the Buddha of Kuon Ganjo. There is nothing "gradual" about this, it is instantaneous.

You are, essentially, what you do. Everyone is a stage one practitioner, that of a common mortal being the true Buddha from the reception of the three bodies from their parents. If you chant Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo, you are a third stage practitioner and are halfway to the sixth stage already! If you simply HEAR the daimoku you are a stage one practitioner AND YOU ARE MANIFESTING YOUR BUDDHAHOOD ALREADY.

However, if you slander the Law, by for instance, undermining the Kosen Rufu movement by attacking the Sangha (which you do, Iain), then you are tearing down your castle of Buddhahood as fast as you are building it up, and actually, even much, much faster: you are digging a deep, deep hole, not just for yourself, but also everyone around you and the country in which you dwell.

As Sensei said: "if you forget the way of mentor-disciple you cannot attain buddhahood," and this is true, your castle of Buddhahood becomes a pit of hellishness. You may not perceive it yet, but the false floor of your delusion will eventually give away, and you will see the truth (like Nikkyo, the 62nd High Priest of Nichiren Shoshu, eventually saw.)

> 2)
>
> You said in the same thread:
>
> "What are the characteristics of a Buddha? They are the characteristics of a bodhisattva doing Kosen-Rufu: doing shakubuku, pursuing activities with the Sangha (the SGI) to widely propagate Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra. Affirming the vow all bodhisattvas of the earth make in the ceremony of the air to receive the Law, protect it and spread it widely."
>

Answered above. You are instantaneously, what you are doing to accomplish Kosen Rufu. And vice-versa.

> And you also said:
>
> "The SGI history and struggle is not a "mythology", it is a fact."
>
> Using SGI's membership figures, which the SGI itself publishes, it's membership has declined by almost half in the 28 years to 2016, 25 of which Mr Ikeda has been in sole charge of guiding and teaching the SGI as it's mentor.
>
> If SGI history and struggle is fact, then it's published membership and the decline of 40% from 20 million in 1988 to 12 million in 2016 are part of that factual history, if not they are part of mythology.
>
> Question 2: How does such a decline show widespread propgation or demonstrate the qualities of a Buddha or bodhisattva doing Kosen-Rufu?
>

[snip]

First off, like I said, those numbers have a lot of fuzz in them. You said that you were all-knowing of how the statistics are handled in the SGI, but that is only true for the current scheme of things. Counting heads was quite different in the old days, I can tell you. We have had periods of boom and bust several times in the history of the lay organization of the Soka Gakkai in America, and during boom times you happily over-count heads, you cannot help it.

It is simply thus: two steps forward, one step back, like the lion.

Sometimes feast, sometimes famine, but if you practice like fire (Iain) the candle gets snuffed out: so everyone should practice like flowing water and hold on to the roller coaster no matter whether is slowly climbing the arc or zooming down the other side.

Peripeteia! The key to every drama.

-Chas.

[Chas.]

Good heavens, you have become an unhappy pre-Frexit person. No wonder the nativists and La Pen are surging. Isn't one Brexit enough? When will you guys cease and desist?

I know that part of your angst is that you, Alex, are a Nichiren Shoshu member from France, and have allied yourself with truly corrupt Nichiren Shu and Kempon Hokke forces like Mark Rogow and Katie, who believe in statue worshiping and that the provisional Buddha Shakyamuni is the eternal Buddha and that the Ongi Kuden is faked and Nikko Shonin a liar: this even Nichiren Shoshu would deny vehemently.

However, your hatred of the SGI comes ahead of following Nichiren Daishonin in your inflamed state. I wonder if Nichiren Shoshu is changing towards the Nichiren Shu in this same way?

Is this a shift in doctrine for Nichiren Shoshu?

As Nikko Shonin said, a stone place outside the cone of Mt. Fuji, will eventually find its way to the bottom.

Cease all exiting!

-Chas.

[iainx...@gmail.com]

Well done Chas. "Those numbers have a lot of fuzz in them"

1) are you telling me they have 40% 8 million of "fuzz" in them? Because that's what you are suggesting.

2) if they have 8 million error margin, are you telling me that SGI was content to knowingly publish a membership figure that was so inaccurate, that it simply becomes made up? Because that's exactly what you seem to be suggesting of the figures at either end, then and now.

These are the SGI's own figures I'm quoting. The figures that show the strength or not and effectiveness of it's movement.

From Mr Toda's numerical pledge of 750,000 households as a target and his dramatic pledge of what the should miss the target when he died, membership numbers have been at the heart of the SGI.

Or if not, are you telling me the counting against the Toda had "a lot of fuzz" in it too? Did SGI simply make up those numbers too because they too had a 40% error margin?

Did Mr Ikeda not keep an accurate record as he went about trying to fulfil his mentors will? Actually SGI may have reached the 750,000 households but it coukd well have been just 450,000 or perhaps 600,000 households, who can tell? "We're not sure Toda Sensei but we think it might be around 600,000 to 700,000 ish but with the margin of error, we can say we hit the target".

Hmmm, and doesn't you mentor Mr Ikeda state how important statitics are to the SGI in the SGI USA handbook?

But suddenly, when someone is pointing out the obvious, how ineffectuve Mr Ikeda's leadership has been using the SGI's own published figures, they get a lot of "fuzz" in them 40% fuzz.

Letting your mentor off the hook of his own organisations numbers by claiming that they are so inaccurate that any claim the SGI has made to it's membership or the world, about it's size, it's growth or not, is to be dismissed as essentually fictional.

Nice one Chas, to save you mentor you've had to sacrifice all of the numerical claims the SGI has made throughout it's history. Either the SGI is good at counting and there isn't much fuzz in it's numbers or it is really bad at counting and there us alot if fuzz in those numbers, and it's claims based on them are therefore unreliable. You can't have it both ways, the positions are diametrically opposed and mutally exclusive.

As for the disrupting the sangha charge, I have already cited to you Chas Nichiren's Gosho where he exicitly states it is not possible to commit this cardinal sin in the latter age, because no sangha exists. You will recall that this is one if Nichuren's Gosho in his own hand and bearing his seal, also that it is quite a late Gosho. I can direct you to the thread with that refutation if your assertion if you like. Is you memory failing you Chas? Or are you knowingly being misrepresentative?

You threw out the accusation I had slandered the Law, yet when you were invited to provide an example from my posting to back up your charge, you could not. Rather tgan apologuse for you error and slur, you ran away. Such are the wonderful behaviours of those who are following the wonderful way that has lost SGI almost half itcs membership, or maybe not, nayve there weren't many members in the first place, they're just not sure - "but a new multi million pound community centre sounds like a good idea, just in case there are some members in that area or we find some more that we forgot about, what do you say?"

You advert for SGI just gets better Chas...

Be well :)

[Katie Higgins]

- "but a new multi million pound community centre sounds like a good idea, just in case there are some members in that area or we find some more that we forgot about, what do you say?"

Bulls-eye, iainx!!

How does the SGI maintain the appearance of spending its wealth * for the sake of the members*? It is a crucial requirement for maintaining SGIs tax exemption scam!!


~Katie

[Katie Higgins]

Chas says : "Now, I am going to quote from the Ogni Kuden"

Because:
1) Chas does not care that ;The Ongi Kuden is not in Nikko’s hand nor is it ever mentioned (“again”) by him. There is no authentic seal of Nichiren (colophon) except for a later legendary accretion referencing a serpent who was to have appeared to Nichiren and Nikko as he was lecturing on the Devedatta Chapter

2) Chas does't see why it should matter that; It is supposed to be based on the Chu Hokkekyo, the authentic Annotated Lotus Sutra of Nichiren, the original copy exists on Mt. Minobu. The problem is it doesn’t conform well to it. Only 23 passages of the 133 passages from the Chu Hokekyo appear in the Ogni Kuden

3) Chas is not aware that; No mention of the Ongi Kuden or the Ongi Kikagaki occurs before Nitcho’s Keiun Sho in 1503. These were competing texts used by opposing sides in the Nichiren ichi-shoretsu debates (the harmony of the 28 chapters of the Lotus Sutra versus the superiority of the essential teachings debate), held at this time. “Dueling Oral Teachings”

4) Chas has no frame of reference to question that; The Ongi Kuden mirrors the writings of the Tendai sect. They employ the Tendai sect formulations of Kanjin style interpretations of “progression” and “resemblance and reversal” to represent concepts found commonly in Chuko Tendai (original enlightenment) doctrine. These conflict with the authenticated writings of Nichiren, most notably, the Kanjin Honzon Sho.

5) Chas refuses to accept the documented history that; The text contains comments regarding events that did not exist at the time of the supposed lectures:

A). For example the Ongi Kuden refers to the “six senior disciples” but Nichiren did not designate these six senior disciples until a few days before his death, some years later
B). According to scholars and priests of the orthodox sects, it refers to Nichiren as the “eminent founder,” a term which did not come into usage until well after Nichiren and Nikko died.

6) Chas isn't into authenticity, and patently rejects esteemed Buddhist scholar,John Petry, who wrote: “The Nichiren Shoshu has pointed to a reference in another writing in a text by a Fuji school priest in the 1600′s referencing the existence of a transcript of lectures given by Nichiren in his life time but there is nothing in that reference to indicate what document he is referring to or even whether it was simply a copy of the Ongi Kuden or the Onko Kikigaki which were known to exist at right around 1500.”

7) Chas doesn't recall that; Nichiren disparaged oral teachings.

8) Chas doesn't realize that the Ogni Kuden is amongst Taisekaji's CORE doctrines, adopted by Nichiren Shoshu lay organization, "his" SGI,

9) [Chas quotes the Ogni Kuden because] Chas' distorted views of the 3 treasures, The Eternal Buddha & his claim to being "Buddha" , can not be found in the authentic Gosho,.

10) Chas accepts the Oral Teachings as well as many forged Gosho that were invented by Taisekeji - because the Devil of the Sixth Heaven has Replaced the Buddha in Chas' mind--

Chas says:
> ... “All phenomena” in the sutra refers to the Ten Worlds, and
> ... the “true aspect,” to what they actually are. THE “TRUE
> ... ASPECT” IS ANOTHER NAME FOR MYOHO-RENGE-KYO

Nichiren says, Myoho renge kyo is the Eternal Buddha, Shakyamuni

Chas forgot that Myoho-renge kyo are the golden words of Shakyamuni Buddha, his mind, as expressed in the Lotus Sutra.

>

Befuddled Chas says:
> If the true aspect was an image of Shakyamuni, then it could not be Myoho-Renge-Kyo, because Myoho-Renge-Kyo is without aspect, you cannot view it from any point and see an aspect.

Nichiren says: "The Real Aspect of the Gohonzon" -"This mandala is in no way my invention, It is the object of devotion that depicts SHAKYAMUNI BUDDHA, the World honored One, seated in the treasure tower of Many Treasures Buddha, and the Buddhas who were SHAKYAMUNI's emanations as perfectly as a print matches its woodblock.Thus the five characters of the Lotus Sutra's title are suspended in the center, while the four heavenly kings are seated at the four corners of the treasure tower. Shakyamuni, Many Treasures, and the four leaders of the Bodhisattvas of the Earth are side by side at the top."
Nichiren explains:"Illuminated by the light of the five characters of the Mystic Law, they display the dignified attributes that they inherently possess.
and further down he states :" It is also stated that the true aspect is the originally inherent Myoho-renge-kyo. the Great Teacher Dengyo said, "A SINGLE MOMENT OF LIFE COMPRISING THE THREE THOUSAND REALMS IS ITSELF THE BUDDHA OF LIMITLESS JOY; THIS BUDDHA HAS FORSAKEN AUGUST APPEARANCES. "

Nichiren states "This Gohonzon also is found only in the two characters for faith. This is what the sutra means when it states that one can 'gain entrance through faith alone.'-("The Real Aspect of the Gohonzon")

Chas talks trash about Shakyamuni>>

"Nichiren Daishonin enscribed all of those onto the Gohonzon. Not onto an image of Shakyamuni. Shakyamuni could not reveal the daimoku at the heart of the Lotus Sutra, not inscribe the Gohonzon"

Chas talks trash about those who follow Nichiren .
Chas follows a common mortal who says:"Unless you follow the path of mentor(ME,IKEDA)/disciple(members of SGI) you cannot attain Buddhahood.
Chas thinks he is following the path to Buddhaood.

The Devil of the sixth heaven has replaced the Buddha in Chas' mind--

Notice how insanely he behaves !!!


~Katie

[Alex Beauroy]

What does all these things you're talking about have to do with you
unacceptable "CHEATING TROLL ACTIVITY, WITH FAKE IDENTITIES" trying to
discredit and provoke on this Newsgroup!!! YOU DON'T PLAY BY THE RULES.
In 1278 April 23rd Nichiren Daishonin wrote in Reply to Ohta Saemon no Jo:
"When one propagates my doctrines, one should bear in mind the four ways
of teaching. Customs and common practices of the secular world should be
applied for now, as long as they do not seriously contradict the
teachings that leads one to Buddhahood."
Try to find it in your favorite Library on line!!!
You will find it as your doctrine is NOTHING[Zen] the sucked lifeblood
out of Nichiren Shoshu.
So make a conclusion : YOU ARE A VAMPIRE CHEATING TROLL ON THIS NEWSGROUP
Enjoy you business flight
@lex

[iainx...@gmail.com]

Thanks Katie, I enjoyed reading your post. The willingness to disregard any evidence that might conflict with Chas's fixed ideas is indeed a constant feature of his posting. Essentially Chas applies a kanjin reading to all the evidence, making it fit his preheld beliefs and carrying on the tradition that the anonymous authors of the Oral Record used to do likewise.

Chas talks trash about those who follow Nichiren .
Chas follows a common mortal who says:"Unless you follow the path of mentor(ME,IKEDA)/disciple(members of SGI) you cannot attain Buddhahood.
Chas thinks he is following the path to Buddhaood.

Of course, this is Chas's right to do this, he is the boss of his life. But lest others, especially SGI members and particularly the young, pliable and easily manipulated people that the SGI seeks to recruit (but fortunately has less and less success in recruiting), it is right to highlight the specious claims and rank dishonesty of SGI mythology.

"The Devil of the sixth heaven has replaced the Buddha in Chas' mind--

Notice how insanely he behaves !!!


~Katie"

It is interseting that the Gosho Chas reacts most strongly to is the letter to Shigo Kingo, which clearly points out that the heart of the practice of the Lotus Sutra lies in the Never Disparaging Chapter. Chas seems confused about this Gosho quote, and has suggested that it is often quoted out of context and that when read in full, somehow that central message is modified. It isn't, Chas has even quoted it in full and the post script Chas claims as a "hammer blow" does nothing to modify that central message, in fact it amplifies it.

Chas claims that the Gosho quote is used as a "way to control people and get them to do what you want", a facinating insight into his mind.

Of course, one might look at the Gosho and consider that Nichiren indeed was trying to encourage his beloved but hot headed, impetuous Samurai follower and get him to consider what the oractice of the Lotus Sutra was all about. In that sense, yes Nichiren was probably pointung out that without thay profound reverence for people, one is not practicing correctly.

Of course, if one starts to apply that, one starts to have to consider how one behaves and where one is based, in Anger or in Buddhahood.

That's self examination and self improvement. If one finds that ones behaviour is "unthinking" and especially if it harms others in the process, no good can come of it. Shigo, as you eill know, was hot tempered and given to being unthinking. This Gosho is one of several that Nichiren made similar observations about the likely effect of Shigo's behaviour.

I suspect that what Chas doesn't want to give up is the notion that in the course of fighting a war or engaging in battle one can resort to any kind of tactic to obtain victory. So deliberate misrepresentation, concerted defamation and discreditation, deliberate dishonesty, all these are justified in the cause of winning a victory over "the enemies of the SGI", which Chas and his ilk characterise as any critiscism, no matter how valid, of SGI and it's leadership.

Of course this is nonsense but it shows where SGI practice is rooted, firmly in the lifestate of Anger. I remember at the time of the split, members running around getting really het up about the High Priest, some really appaling things were being said, wishes for his downfall, ill health and even death. At the time, I pushed back on that. To me, if Nikken really had slandered the Law so gravely, then the censure of the Lotus Sutra is far worse than anything we can dream up, that's suffering upon suffering for that individual. Cause and effect is strict but there is no room for triumphalism or reveling in another's misfortune, no matter how instrumental they were in their own downfall. One thing we don't see is Never Disparaging saying "told you so".

Of course, if you take the Gosho seriously, one has to look at oneself. And when one does that, one sees that the ends do not justify the means.

SGI's way of dealing with the split was to start a war and continue to engage in it, using slurs, misinformation, and sime outrageous behaviour. What I didn't question at the time, was the lack of guidance to not dwell in the lower worlds but to deal with the split based on buddhahood. It was OK to be Angry and to be based firmly in that world. So we didn't get clear doctrinal debate, we got focus in the supposed human transgressions of this evil person Nikken. There was no guidance to chant to resolve the conflict, or even to purify the priesthood of itcs supposed corrupt elements, it was all about "destroying the priesthood".

In short, SGI whipped itcs membership into an emotional frenzy amd allowed it to whip itself into an emotional frenzy of anger and hate.

Looking back, I wish I had bern more vocal with the leadership that allowed that to happen and even stoked those fires. I must bear responsibility for staying so long with an organusation that was willing to allow that to happen and create the culture the SGI has today. At that time, the SGI still had it's focus on faith in my country, so I wasn't alone in pushing back, it was most notable that the people most caught up in that anger tended to be new members who had already taken sensei as their saviour. An early indication of what was to come.

I doubt Chas will change, I do wish him well although he has chosen a hard road to follow as has his mentor and corrupt band of leaders.

The SGI has already declined by almost half, it's members will cintinue to oeel away and it's new recruits will not stay long, nourshed only on a diet of "isn't Mr Ikeda amazing" and when SGI is surrounded and out classed by organisations that do a much better job if all of it's policy areas - Nuclear Disarmament, Anti War, Humanism, Environmentalism, Art, Culture, Nichuren Buddhism.

I suspect it's the internet age that is really dealing the death blow to SGI. The org jumped on the band wagon to promote itself and attempt to claim and occupy the Nichiren space but reaction that it can't control has come back to challenge that claim. The fictions that SGI maintains about itself, itcs hustory and it's leaders achievemnts are now easily and reliably checked out.

Thanks to the net, we now know that SGI was late off the starting block for world wide kosen rufu, others had been doing that much earlier and better.SGI was about 20 years too late in reaching out to the world after WW2, other practitioners had gine out, met Ghandi and incorporated his non violent opposition and oeaceful protest into their Nichiren buddhist approach way before Mr Ikeda or Mr Toda even. Far from being visionaries, Mr Ikeda comes acriss as being a bit of a magpie, pucking uo other's goid ideas and claiming that he initiated them.

Tgabjs to the net, we kniw about other organisations like Rissho Kosie Kai, who published an English Language Threefold Lotus Sutra some 20 years before SGI finally go round to doing it. Itcs an organisation that seems to be much more engaged in bodhissatva action in a practical fashion. Again it seems much of the later SGI rhetoric and aspirations could have come directly from Rissho, sho'd been doing it for longer. Another magpie moment.

There are nany SGI members and non members who have done much more remarkable things than Mr Ikeda. Whatcus his achievement? Some will say building the SGI and yet this was dine when it was a lay organusation if Nichiren Shoshu and when the High Priest was itcs spiritual authority, as acknowledged by Mr Ikeda himself. It was also when SGI was based on faith.

The idea that Mr Ikeda "built" anything is in itself a measurecif how insignificant SGI rates it's members and their actions. It was tgeir effirt, their ingenuity, their Daimoku, time and money and hospitality that built that network.

It's true that Mr Ikeda has created a business publishing empire but this us not a remarkable achievement, Mark Zuckerberg, Steve Jobs, Richard Branson, Elton Musk, Jeff Bezos to name but a few have all done likewise and much better.

The other thing killing the SGI, apart from it's less than mediocre leadership, is education. As we become more educated and less willing to accept at face value claims that when easily checked on the net, turn out to be hypoed or false. The younger generation in oarticular have a healthy cyniscism to the dodgy claims of snake oil salesmen.

But it's the SGI's own dire performance on taking forward kosen rufu during the oeriod Mr Ikeda has been in sole cgarge if it's teaching and spiritual durection that is the most damning indictment of it's claim to be the inheritor of the Law. In membership terms, and using the SGI's own published figures, the organisation is 8 million down on where it was in 1988, almost half, 17 million down on where it should be if it had kept pace with population growth and around 30 million down on where it shoukd have been if the SGI was actually growing at a very modest rate in real terms.

The SGI should now be at about 40 million or more members globally now, if it had actually grown in real terms during the 25 years of Mr Ikeda's sole spiritual guidance, yet it can only muster 12 million members and that figure is likely to be higher than the actual number of people who consider themselves as SGI members.

So, for all Mr Ikeda's claims about advancing kosen rufu, when he is in sole charge of doing just thst, his performance has been one if global retreat. Ni longer dies tge SGI have tge 20 million members it claimed to have in 1988, it has 40% less.

Instead of having the 29 million members it should have had it kept oace with global population growth it has 59% less. And instead if boasting a membership of 40 million or more, if it had grown in real terms, it has 70% less.

So SGI cannot claim it is advancing kosen rufu, even if it did actually teach the Buddhism of Nichiren Daishonin, which it no longer does. There is no advance in these numbers, just retreat. There isn't even an ability to keep up.

So left to his own devices, without the support and influence of the priesthoid and even Mr Toda's other disciples, Mr Ikeda's teaching, guidance, stewardship and durection if the SGI has been disaterous for the organisation, it's members and kosen rufu. He has hobbled the SGI to half its strength and removing ince and for all the notion that tge SGI is a foremost agent of kosen rufu.

When Chas comes back, I expect him to cast doubt on the numbers or claim the have a lot of "fuzz" in them as he has consistently done even though I have refernenced the numbers, given a run down on how SGI collects it's numbers, pointed him back to his own leaders handbook that has a full chapter on membership statics, and even thogh Chas aknnowledges that SGI dies have robust data, which it does not publish (but woukd orived a high degree of certainty about membership numbers.

Why will Chas do this? Because the central claim that Mr Ikeda is an eternal mentor for kosen rufu rests on his performance in doing kosen rufu, which when left to himself, is dismal.

Anything to maintain the fiction that Mr Ikeda is exeptional, even when it means being willing to sacrifice every other numerical claim the SGI has ever made about it's history and to disparage the SGI's formidable statistical and analytical capability, in order to shore up the SGI's dishonest claims about it's and Mr Ikeda's advance of kosen rufu in the last 25 years.

The SGIs new prayer should really be about "Mr Ikeda the eternal obstructor of kosen rufu and harrier of the Sutra's votaries". No one has done more to harm the SGI or backslide the global reach of its influence, which given it teaches a distorted mentor-disciple practice in complete opposition to thr Sutra and Nichiren's teaching, is a good thing.

Personally, I can't wait for the membership to decline further as more and more people wake up to the fact that the only aim of today's SGI is to assuage Mr Ikeda's vanity, boost his ego, make lots of money to be spent however SGI paid board members and enployees think fit, through mrmber contributions and selling Mr Ikeda's books and SGI mags, build a nice little real estate portfolio (even though member numbers have dropped by half) and run the SGI business operations by coopting the time and effort of the SGI's unpaid member workforce, in the name of taking forward kosen rufu.

The sooner those sharks get out of the water and take the carrots they dangle, to get people to work for free or contrubute their hard earned cash, the promises of a personal breakthrough or increase in finacial good fortune just by giving to a bunch of sniggering spiritual sales people, the better.

Fortunately, we have the likes of Chas to hasten that demise along. 12 million and going down, 10 million, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 - irrelevant and forgotten by the year 2030. Overshadowed by a new wave of practicioners who I predict will ably demonstrate what a superior practice actually is. :)

[Katie Higgins]

Thanks iainx, for keeping the discussion grounded in the history that I experienced, but had far less appreciation for, because I was a new member of 2years with NSA when the *split* occurred.

I also appreciate your capacity to directly engage from your knowledge of Buddhism and your experience in the SGI-- these are the qualities, in combination that sends Chad running for the hills-- , though not before he has acted out in ways that have given me new insight and a more grounded perspective into my 28 year struggle with SGI.

Judging solely on the basis of the astounding body of knowledge published on line by Independent practitioners of Nichiren, the *war between SGi & NST* seems likely to have been orchestrated from a Top down model, As you point out:

>>"It was OK to be Angry and to be based firmly in that world. So we didn't get clear doctrinal debate, we got focus in the supposed human transgressions of this evil person Nikken "<<

Doctrinal debates are like a cross to a vampire for both SGI/NST-- Their doctrines are the same-- So, their war really does come down to a contest between *personalities* of their respective cults. It is obvious that Ikeda pulled Mentor/Disciple straight from Taisekiji's playbook; one common mortal who *embodies* the Law- directly and uniquely connected to Nichiren- leading the *order*. On the Soka Spirit web site a pseudo doctrinal issue is laid to rest by claiming Nikken is a transgressor, and Ikeda is the True Votary of the Lotus Sutra, denouncing, refuting and defaming the evil, Nikken! But from the strict perspective of Nichiren's teachings \both SGI & NST have committed the grave offense of discarding "The three Treasures" taught by Nichiren. Both base their spurious new doctrine on the highly disputed Ogni Kuden.

I am disappointed that Nichiren Shu maintains a neutral position between the two, though initially I appreciated that they stayed out of the fray , I have to say that since the Nichiren Shu priests are clear on the doctrinal errors of NST/SGI, their silence is complicity in this grave offense.

A stunning transformation has already occurred in the content, style and effects of on-line dialogues, discussions and debates amongst Independent practitioners, and in their response to *attacks* from SGI/NST watch dogs. The evolutions of these forums is pretty straight forward actual proof of the power of unity based on the *mind of the Buddha*, engaging with *scriptures* in hand -- and knowing how to apply them.

I, like you, am very concerned about unwitting recruits who are plunged into overall ignorance, achieved through oppression, that ensnares people in the SGI. The habits of millennials, internet and social media focused, are a hopeful means of protection. In that vein, I have shared your refutation of *Mentor/Disciple* widely -
and will do the same with your challenging Chad re: declining membership in the SGI.

Cheers!
~Katie

[iainx...@gmail.com]

Thanks Katie. I think we must have started practicing around the same time. I started chanting in 1988 and got Gohonzon in 1990.

I take your point regarding Nichiren Shoshu but to balance that, I'd observe that Nichiren Shoshu were mire centreded in Gohonzon and closer to the Gosho (fakes not withstanding) than SGI are today or with hindsight, have been decreasingly, for the last decade or so.

I'm not sure that Nichiren Shu is staying out of the fray, Icve certainly seen some refutation activity going on from that quarter but it tends to be less in your face than SGI/NST have gotten us all used to.

Personally, I'm increasingly coming to the conclusion that Nichiren's statement that he wasn't the founder of any sect or school, should be taken at face value. I rather think his folloeers of later ages and certainly since the first schism, let him down by shoe hirning his radical and way ahead of it's time teaching, into the sect/school model. It seems to have passed them by that what Nichiren taught was the single mind of faith and he did so to what was a community that had yet to have the wounds of sectarian schism needlesly inflicted upon it. Perhaps this was the first real challenge that fundemental darkness visited on Nichirencs teaching. Unable to sway him, it got instead to those who followed and misunderstood and it was only possible because his later followers organised themselves into sects and schools, started vying for position, power and influence and then started falling out with each other. The rest is history and SGI in particular have polished tge art of sectarian strife and schism to an art form.

When great evil occurs, great good will follow. That's where I believe we are right now and it is the Independent practicioners who are leading that wave of good. We show that it is both possible and desirable to cast aside sectarian affiliantions and focus back on Nichiren's original idea of the one mind of faith. All are welcome for sure, those who are aligned or not, for the determinant I believe is not organisational affiliation but faith.

All the sects are declining in this age, soon enough those who are aligned to an organisation will realise that one you've learned to swim, the rest is up to you. One diesnt soend tge rwst if onecs life wearing arm bands and continuing to take guidance from your childhood swim teacher! If your Michael Phelps there might be a case fir continuing training but even then...

I predict that the Indie movement will evolve and probably take on more of a collegiate model, with no expectation that those wishing to learn will or indeed should stay dependent once they've got up and running. A healthy collegiate network will encourage moving on in study and exploration and will provide an ever richet and diverse network to do that within. The first green shoots are already here. Finally, we are ebtering a global age where Nichiren's vision can begin to become a reality. We'll know we are on our way when just 260 Indies are working together united in the single mind of faith and are insistent that they too are not founders if any sect or school and nor should there be one, it is unnecessary when one chants the Daimoku.

I pick that number, because I believe it is about the number of followers that Nichiren had in his life time, in the unified in faith part of Nichiren history.

Time to revive what sectarians cast aside and never let that mistake be made again.


What do you reckon?

:D

Be well :)

[Katie Higgins]

I agree with your main points here, iainx, and do so with sincere deference for your experience in the SGI. Though we did begin around the same time, I joined NSA and received Gohonzon in 1988, I think owing to the cultural differences between the U.S. and the U.K., you were able to participate and gain a more accurate perception of the organization, while I was always on the fringes owing to my nature to question early on and not completely align myself with the SGI. I was a Unit Chief for less than a year ! LOL-- My little bit of rubbing elbows with leaders was enough to brand me *not suitable* for advancing in their ranks, But, I lost out on the experience from which to gauge my assessments for the next 27 years, so I deeply appreciate your sharing here what I would have no way of knowing.

By the same token, my experience was mostly in the category of an *independent* practitioner-- meaning, I was always seeking the Gosho to sustain my faith, and whether marginalized, admonished or outright excommunicated, (3 times in Boston), I was never able to join any other sect. Though I found nourishment for rebuking the slander in SGI on internet forums; like, the IRG discussion board, I lacked the background in the study of Buddhism, and found it difficult to accept early assertions about forgeries, and fabrications-- WOW! what a difference 18 years makes-- both in my capacity and in the presentation of cogent arguments based on scholarly works and the first hand knowledge gained by some Americans who went to Japan to get to the root of the problem.

I have strong faith in Nichiren's teachings , which I believe must have been enough to prevent the effects of truncated daimoku and a counterfeit no-honzon from polluting my mind. There is no other explanation for my eventually encountering Eagle Peak, Mark Rogow's blog. Here is the interesting, timely story behind this actual proof that I had not lost all of my fortune.

In March of this year, I was texting two close friends, one a WD Region Leader, the other a neighbor who stays in contact with me regarding SGI Boston activities. I was curious about the March 16th - Youth activity, which was the one I had always been most involved in. When I received the announcement via text for the Boston activity, I learned for the first time that Aidin Straus was NEW GD of SGI-USA. I was shocked and tried to engage the friend who sent this notice to me, reminding her of the meeting we had with Top WD leader, Kathleen Olesky, in 2011- (the year before my third ex-communication). That meeting was in response to emails I sent to Aidin Straus asking for specific SGI financial info. The meeting with WD leader was to silence me, no question about that, but this friend whose memory I was trying to jog, had witnessed Kathleen Olesky saying that Aidin Straus was hired by CFO and NOT a member of SGI, so my questions to him were inappropriate. The answer to my questions about SGI finances , which I posed to Kathleen Olesky, was :"Your questioning is a demonstration of your lack of faith, and you are creating disunity with your doubts-- creating suffering for yourself"-- etc. etc.[Was Aidin Straus a member of SGI or not? no one sees to know]

Neither of my SGI friends would even engage about Aidin Straus, of all people, being the GD of SGI USA. So, I googled him-- and found a blog post on Eagle Peak "What we know about Aidin Straus"-- I spent hours reading the posts in the archives on Eagle Peak, and discovered a new tenor in the discourse for rebuking SGI's erroneous teachings-- and a solid knowledge base for understanding the core issues. These included serious revisions in my own practice, for which I am deeply grateful. But the most significant benefit has been the eye opening experience of engaging from faith in the teachings, employing them first and foremost and not being distracted by the *person* centered rhetoric that dominates the major Nichiren sects. I am not following Mark, or any participant on his blog, I learn from what they share, and determine my course based on faith and daimoku. Like you, iainx, I have no doubt that my life itself has been saved by my daimpku and faith. I do not need to be convinced of the greatness of Nichiren's teachings, or the crucial aspect of faith!

I am totally in agreement with this statement of yours:

>>"Time to revive what sectarians cast aside and never let that mistake be made again. "<<

and I, too, think often of the followers during Nichiren's time-- how they practiced and especially how they supported and encouraged one another after Nichiren's passing. It has always been evident that there is no need, and in fact, every reason NOT to form organizations or *sects*, if you will. I also think that true votaries, like Mark, who stand up and fearlessly rebuke the slander of the SGI and NST are creating this turning point, eliciting the protection of the tens of thousands who attained Buddhahood as described in the ceremony in the air, all of whom pledged to protect the votaries of the Lotus Sutra--. Their protection will manifest as punishment for those who have maligned votaries of the Lotus Sutra and the ruination of the organizations propagating erroneous teachings--- . I say this based on the teachings of Nichiren. I am surprised that I have the fortune to be witness to this profound actual proof of Nichiren's writings, all matters that I had never imagined possible.

Thank you for reviving this site where you are demonstrating the correct attitude and procedure for a true debate. I came here checking out posts on Eagle Peak, BTW, and noting Mark's praise for your contribution here. For all who are conflicted about their practice with SGI, and stuck thinking there is no other way, your writing here is the best example I have found that demonstrates the only WAY is through one's own faith and seeking mind for Nichiren's teachings. Or, rather, until one breaks away from sectarian affiliation, one cannot even see the WAY to correct practice and faith.

I reckon we have gotten it mostly right - enough to be hopeful about the prospect of "260 indies working together united in the single mind of faith".

Cheers ! :-D
~Katie

[Chas.]

On Monday, July 4, 2016 at 6:21:54 PM UTC-7, Katie Higgins wrote:

[snip]

and

On Monday, July 4, 2016 at 11:59:16 AM UTC-7, iainx...@gmail.com wrote:

[snip]

Once again, all this claptrap which is insupportable blather is presented as absolute evidence against the Record of the Orally Transmitted Teachings and Nikko Shonin, founder of the Fuji School by SGI haters. It's just more piled on BS.

1. None of you has refuted Nichiren Daishonin's views of the true Buddha as a common mortal, which is the central tenet of Nichiren's Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra.

2. None of you have refuted the true aspect of those passages from the Sutra of Immeasurable Meanings, which makes statues and images as objects of devotion obsolete in the Latter Day of the Law.

3. None of you have refuted Nichiren Daishonin's views of the Gohonzon as the supreme object of devotion throughout Jambudvipa, which makes your statues and images inferior objects of devotion. Vastly inferior !

4. All you can do is harp on membership numbers, by using incorrect measures. Soka Gakkai Japan leaders have been quoted as stating that there are 8 million Gakkai FAMILIES just in Japan and that blows your current numbers away. Families in Japan average at 2.5 members, so just by that raw count, your numbers are wrong: but I don't claim those numbers are right either.

I claim that even if your numbers are right (and I sincerely doubt that,) then the lion walks two steps forward and one step back, and that's how the SGI walks as well.

You claim of a downward trend ignores the cycle boom and bust of membership over the history of the SGI, and you should just chill out on our membership, Iain. The death of the SGI was predicted by Nikken and now yourself and we will survive both of you prognosticators.

Here, once again are all the texts with all the appropriate quotes:
____________________________________________________

On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 5:21:58 PM UTC-7, Mark Rogow wrote:
> The most perverse sect at the time of Nichiren was Tendai [Mikkyo] which mixed Lotus Sutra Buddhism and Shingon. Today, we have a similar problem but NST and SGI ...

[snip]

You are projecting. It is you and your Shinto-ized version of Hinduistic statue-worshiping distortion of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism that is clearly a corruption. Nichiren Daishonin declared the Gohonzon as the supreme object of worship throughout Jambudvipa, not your pictures and statues. They do not possess the true aspect.

... “All phenomena” in the sutra refers to the Ten Worlds, and
... the “true aspect,” to what they actually are. THE “TRUE

... ASPECT” IS ANOTHER NAME FOR MYOHO-RENGE-KYO; hence all
... phenomena are Myoho-renge-kyo. Hell’s displaying the form
... of hell is its true aspect. When hell changes into the
... realm of hungry spirits, that is no longer the true form of
... hell. A Buddha displays the form of a Buddha, and a common
... mortal, that of a common mortal. The entities of all
... phenomena are entities of Myoho-renge-kyo. That is the
... meaning of “the true aspect of all phenomena.” T’ien-t’ai
... states that the profound principle of the true aspect is
... the originally inherent Myoho-renge-kyo. This
... interpretation identifies the phrase “true aspect” with the
... theoretical teaching and “the originally inherent
... Myoho-renge-kyo” with the essential teaching. You should
... ponder this interpretation deep in your heart.
...

'The “true aspect” is another name for Myoho-renge-kyo; hence all phenomena are Myoho-renge-kyo.'

This is the fruit of the clear understanding of that description of true aspect.

If the true aspect was an image of Shakyamuni, then it could not be Myoho-Renge-Kyo, because Myoho-Renge-Kyo is without aspect, you cannot view it from any point and see an aspect.

[Katie Higgins]

>>"Once again, all this claptrap which is insupportable blather is presented as absolute evidence against the Record of the Orally Transmitted Teachings and Nikko Shonin, founder of the Fuji School by SGI haters. It's just more piled on BS."<<

The best evidence against the Record of Orally Transmitted Teachings is that it does not accord with the MAJOR writings of Nichiren's writings --. I don't hate SGI, I hate lying. forgery. deceit-- these actions breed fools like you who have no clue how to authenticate anything older than your underwear!

>>"1. None of you has refuted Nichiren Daishonin's views of the true Buddha as a common mortal, which is the central tenet of Nichiren's Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra."<<

You know, Chas, I bet you haven't noticed that Nichiren refers to himself as a *votary of the Lotus Sutra*, and then reveals he is *Bodhisattva Superior Practices*-. Did you notice, Chas when reading ALL of Nichiren's writings that Nichiren claims he, himself, is not a sage, also that he lacks the wisdom of the Great Teachers, like, T'ien-t'ai. Nichiren AND never once refers to himself as a *Buddha*- nor does he assign the term, *Buddha* to any of his disciples and lay supporters, though commenting on their strong, pure faith and devotion to upholding the Lotus Sutra. I am sure you DO know that the Lotus Sutra is the highest teaching of Shakyamuni Buddha. That explains why Nichiren says he is a disciple of Shakyamuni--
and so are we who follow Nichiren.

>>". None of you have refuted the true aspect of those passages from the Sutra of Immeasurable Meanings, which makes statues and images as objects of devotion obsolete in the Latter Day of the Law."<

And thick headed Chas just can't comprehend that those of who have statues of Shaklyamuni on our altars , have the true object of worship, a Nichiren Gohonzon enshrined. We know the difference Chas-- You don't. That's clear, and like your fellow Gakkai sheep, just keep bleating "baaa-aaad, baa-aaad, baaaaaaaa-ad" at everything on the *prohibited* list in your Ikediasm manuals.

>>"3. None of you have refuted Nichiren Daishonin's views of the Gohonzon as the supreme object of devotion throughout Jambudvipa, which makes your statues and images inferior objects of devotion. Vastly inferior "<<

Yes, Chas we know you are concert in your thinking, but really? Who would refute the Gohonzon as the supreme object of worship? We have Gohonzon enshrined on our altars, Chas-- REALLY!! Come see if you like-- or, I forgot, you are not allowed to *sully your eyes* viewing an authentic Nichiren Gohonzon-- Right, then !-- maybe you ought to just shut up ? Speculating from your tiny port hole, is rather poor form, not to mention slander of Followers of Nichiren.

>>"4. All you can do is harp on membership numbers, by using incorrect measures. Soka Gakkai Japan leaders have been quoted as stating that there are 8 million Gakkai FAMILIES just in Japan and that blows your current numbers away. Families in Japan average at 2.5 members, so just by that raw count, your numbers are wrong: but I don't claim those numbers are right either."<<

Actually this is just to be expected-- not the meat of the argument against Ikedaism's slander of the Lotus Sutra and the propagation of the antithesis of Nichiren Buddhism-- talking about your material gain focused, ostensibly wealthy organization --- far exceeding membership contributions ;-)

BTW Chas, how is your Sensei? Waiting for the posting of your video taped visit with your Mentor-- I'm ready for the actual proof of what Ikeda has attained as the world wide leader for kosen rufu!!

Thanks, Chas--


~Katie

[Katie Higgins]

Here's a refresher for you, Chas-- Nichiren's description of the Eternal Buddha and his attitude towards him--

The passages are from "The Opening Of The Eyes"-

"But the Buddha, our great teacher, has advanced beyond even transmigration with change and advance, let alone transmigration with differences and limitations. He has wiped out even the very root of fundamental darkness, let lone the illusions of thought and desire that are as minor as branches and leaves."

"The Buddha, from the time of his enlightenment at the age of thirty until his passing at the age of eighty, expounded his sacred teachings for a period of fifty years. Each word, each phrase he spoke is true, not a sentence, not a verse is false. The words of the sages and worthy preserved in the scriptures and teachings of Confucianism and Brahmanism, as we have noted, are free of error, and the words match the spirit in which they were spoken. But how much more true is this in the case of the Buddha, who had spoken not a false word for countless kalpasI In comparison to the non-Buddhist scriptures and teachings, the doctrines that he expounded in a period of fifty or so years represent the great vehicle, the true words of the great man, Everything that he preached, from the dawn of his enlightenment until the evening that he entered into nirvana , is none other than the truth."

"Shakyamuni Buddha appeared in the saha world, Kumarajiva journeyed to the Ch'in dynasty in China, and Dengyo likewise went to China [all for the sake of the Lotus Sutra]. Aryadeva and Aryasimba sacrificed their bodies. Bodhisattva Medicine King burned his arms as an offering, and Prince Jogu stripped off the skin on his hand [an copied the sutra on it]. Shakyamuni, when he was a bodhisattva, sold his flesh to make offerings, and another time, when he was a bodhisattva named the ascetic Aspiration for the Law, he used one of his bones as a pen[to write down the Buddha's teaching].

"T'ien-t'ai has said that 'the method chosen should be that which accords with the time.' The propagation of the Buddhist teachings should follow the time. For what I have done, I have been condemned to exile, but it is a small suffering to undergo in this present life and not one worth lamenting. In future lives I will enjoy immense happiness, a thought that gives me great joy."



Do you notice, Chas--- how Nichiren upheld the Lotus Sutra? Do you notice that he doesn't call himself, "Buddha"?

Ponder the as you upload your video of your visit with your sensei, actual proof of your mentor's greatness -- YOUR teacher, who has called himself and whole lot of you SGI sheep, "Buddha"!!

~Katie

[Chas.]

On Wednesday, July 6, 2016 at 8:22:09 AM UTC-4, Katie Higgins wrote:
> Here's a refresher for you, Chas-- Nichiren's description of the Eternal Buddha and his attitude towards him--
>
> The passages are from "The Opening Of The Eyes"-
>
> "But the Buddha, our great teacher, has advanced beyond even transmigration with change and advance, let alone transmigration with differences and limitations. He has wiped out even the very root of fundamental darkness, let lone the illusions of thought and desire that are as minor as branches and leaves."
>
> "The Buddha, from the time of his enlightenment at the age of thirty until his passing at the age of eighty, expounded his sacred teachings for a period of fifty years. Each word, each phrase he spoke is true, not a sentence, not a verse is false. The words of the sages and worthy preserved in the scriptures and teachings of Confucianism and Brahmanism, as we have noted, are free of error, and the words match the spirit in which they were spoken. But how much more true is this in the case of the Buddha, who had spoken not a false word for countless kalpasI In comparison to the non-Buddhist scriptures and teachings, the doctrines that he expounded in a period of fifty or so years represent the great vehicle, the true words of the great man, Everything that he preached, from the dawn of his enlightenment until the evening that he entered into nirvana , is none other than the truth."
>

Interesting that you missed the next paragraphs and the meaning of this passage, which applies directly to you all.

It has to do with how the supreme teachings are attacked by “appropriating Buddhism” or “plagiarizing Buddhism”, by efforts to "twist what is lofty and force it into a mean context; they destroy what is exalted and drag it down among the base, striving to put the two on an equal level."

Here is the passage that describes what you and your traitorous priests do, by merging Hinduism and Shinto statue worshiping with Nichiren's Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra ("The Opening of the Eyes (I)", WND I, pp. 223-225)
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/30#para-13

... However, when we examine the eighty thousand teachings of
... Buddhism expounded during a period of fifty or so years and
... recorded in scriptures, we find that they fall into various
... categories such as HINAYANA AND MAHAYANA, PROVISIONAL AND
... TRUE SUTRAS, EXOTERIC AND ESOTERIC TEACHINGS, DETAILED AND
... ROUGH DISCOURSES, TRUE WORDS AND FALSE WORDS, CORRECT AND
... INCORRECT VIEWS. BUT AMONG THESE, THE LOTUS SUTRA ALONE
... REPRESENTS THE CORRECT TEACHINGS OF SHAKYAMUNI BUDDHA, THE
... LORD OF TEACHINGS, THE TRUTHFUL WORDS OF THE BUDDHAS OF THE
... THREE EXISTENCES AND THE TEN DIRECTIONS. The World-Honored
... One of Great Enlightenment designated a specific period of
... the preceding forty years and more, and defined the various
... sutras preached during that period, numerous as the sands
... of the Ganges, as the sutras in which he had “not yet
... revealed the truth.” He designated the Lotus Sutra preached
... during the eight years as the sutra in which he “now must
... reveal the truth.” Thus Many Treasures Buddha came forth
... from beneath the earth to testify that “all that you have
... expounded [in the Lotus Sutra] is the truth,” and the
... Buddhas who are emanations of Shakyamuni gathered together
... and extended their long tongues up to the Brahmā heaven in
... testimony. These words are perfectly clear, perfectly
... understandable, brighter than the sun on a clear day, or
... like the full moon at midnight. Look up to them and believe
... them, and when you turn away, cherish them in your heart!
...
... The Lotus Sutra contains two important teachings. The
... Dharma Analysis Treasury, Establishment of Truth, Precepts,
... Dharma Characteristics, and Three Treatises schools have
... never heard even so much as the name of these teachings.
... THE FLOWER GARLAND AND TRUE WORD SCHOOLS, ON THE OTHER
... HAND, HAVE SURREPTITIOUSLY STOLEN THESE DOCTRINES AND MADE
... THEM THE HEART OF THEIR OWN TEACHINGS. The doctrine of
... three thousand realms in a single moment of life is found
... in only one place, hidden in the depths of the “Life Span”
... chapter of the essential teaching of the Lotus Sutra.
... Nāgārjuna and Vasubandhu were aware of it but did not bring
... it forth into the light. T’ien-t’ai Chih-che alone embraced
... it and kept it ever in mind.
...
... The doctrine of three thousand realms in a single moment of
... life begins with the concept of the mutual possession of
... the Ten Worlds. But the Dharma Characteristics and Three
... Treatises schools speak only of eight worlds and know
... nothing of the entirety of the Ten Worlds, much less of the
... concept of their mutual possession. The Dharma Analysis
... Treasury, Establishment of Truth, and Precepts schools
... derive their teachings from the Āgama sutras. They are
... aware only of the six worlds and know nothing of the other
... four worlds. They declare that in all the ten directions
... there is only one Buddha, and do not even preach that there
... is any other Buddha in any of the ten directions. OF THE
... PRINCIPLE THAT “ALL SENTIENT BEINGS ALIKE POSSESS THE
... BUDDHA NATURE,” THEY OF COURSE SAY NOTHING AT ALL. They
... refuse to acknowledge that even a single person possesses
... the Buddha nature. IN SPITE OF THIS, ONE WILL SOMETIMES
... HEAR MEMBERS OF THE PRECEPTS AND ESTABLISHMENT OF TRUTH
... SCHOOLS DECLARING THAT THERE ARE BUDDHAS IN THE TEN
... DIRECTIONS, OR THAT ALL LIVING BEINGS POSSESS THE BUDDHA
... NATURE. This is because the teachers of these schools who
... appeared after the passing away of the Buddha had stolen
... these Mahayana doctrines and incorporated them into the
... teachings of their own schools.
...

Buddhas in the ten directions. Do you know who they are? The world of living beings.

THEY ARE COMMON MORTALS, WHO ARE NONE OTHER THAN THE TRUE BUDDHA.

How could you possibly miss this point?

... To illustrate, in the period before the appearance of
... Buddhism, the proponents of the non-Buddhist teachings in
... India were not so bound up in their own views. But after
... the appearance of the Buddha, when they had listened to and
... observed the Buddhist teachings, they became aware of the
... shortcomings of their own doctrines. THEY THEN CONCEIVED
... THE CLEVER IDEA OF APPROPRIATING BUDDHIST TEACHINGS AND
... INCORPORATING THEM INTO THEIR OWN DOCTRINES, AND AS A
... RESULT THEY FELL INTO EVEN DEEPER ERROR THAN BEFORE. THESE
... ARE EXAMPLES OF THE ERRORS KNOWN AS “APPROPRIATING
... BUDDHISM” OR “PLAGIARIZING BUDDHISM.”
...

And this appropriation into Hinduism (the non-Buddhist schools of India), continues with the statue worshipers of Nichiren Shu, and now Nichiren Shoshu, since Alex is an active part of your Sangha.

... The same thing occurred in the case of non-Buddhist
... scriptures in China. Before Buddhism was brought to China,
... Confucianism and Taoism were rather naive and childish
... affairs. But in the Later Han, Buddhism was introduced to
... China and challenged the native doctrines. In time, as
... Buddhism became more popular, THERE WERE CERTAIN BUDDHIST
... PRIESTS WHO, BECAUSE THEY HAD BROKEN THE PRECEPTS, WERE
... FORCED TO RETURN TO SECULAR LIFE, OR WHO ELECTED TO JOIN
... FORCES WITH THE NATIVE CREEDS. THROUGH SUCH MEN, BUDDHIST
... DOCTRINES WERE STOLEN AND INCORPORATED INTO THE CONFUCIAN
... AND TAOIST TEACHINGS.
...

This is much like the Nichiren Shu and now, Nichiren Shoshu and Iain's Sangha.

... In volume five of Great Concentration and Insight we read:
... “These days there are many devilish monks who break the
... precepts and return to lay life. Fearing that they will be
... punished for their action, they then go over to the side of
... the Taoists. Hoping to gain fame and profit, they speak
... extravagantly of the merits of Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu,
... usurping Buddhist concepts and reading them into their
... erroneous scriptures. THEY TWIST WHAT IS LOFTY AND FORCE IT
... INTO A MEAN CONTEXT; THEY DESTROY WHAT IS EXALTED AND DRAG
... IT DOWN AMONG THE BASE, STRIVING TO PUT THE TWO ON AN EQUAL
... LEVEL.”

"They twist what is lofty and force it into a mean context; they destroy what is exalted and drag it down among the base, striving to put the two on an equal level."

That's what you guys are all about.

>
> Do you notice, Chas--- how Nichiren upheld the Lotus Sutra? Do you notice that he doesn't call himself, "Buddha"?
>

Absolutely Nichiren Daishonin does, over and over.

He refers to himself as a "common mortal".

The term "Daishonin" or "true Buddha" means "common mortal." Shakyamuni is a provisional Buddha, or a function of the true Buddha, which is a common mortal.

That's why the Gohonzon works so perfectly for everyone. It raises the enlightened aspect of not only the provisional Buddha function of Shakyamuni, but all the other provisional Buddhas and other functions in your life, when you add the "pure and far-reaching voice" invoking the daimoku of Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo.

Do I need to include those passages again? I will until you can grasp their truth, which you repeatedly are missing.

[snip the rest.]

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

Yo! Chas - maybe the reason Nichiren does not refer to himself or his staunch followers as "Buddha" is because they are not " Buddha"-

Maybe you have noticed that only in the disputed Gosho, "The True Aspect of All Phrnomena" and the proven forgery , the Ogni Kuden , will you find such nonsensical references re: common mortals are Budfhas -- yaddy yaddy --- oh, but then unless you are copying and pasting quotes to prove some other hair brained idea you got from Nichiren Shoshu , or outright fabricated by Ikeda, you don't impress as much of a scholar on Nichiren's writings --

I an independent follower of Nichiren - in 28 years I have found no need for priests or mentors - I accepted Nichiren as my teacher -- you would have no clue what that is like . Pity.

When are you going to share some actual proof of what Ikeda attained for his shameless slander of the Lotus Sutra? Or haven't the stories been created yet ?? His "ghost" writers must be working almost as hard as you are trying to concoct something that will turn dung into sandalwood .

BTW, Nichiren gave his followers a heads up regarding the demise and fearsome deaths of "arrogant false sages " passing for venerable priests and teachers. Why? Because otherwise they may misled by those whose demise and death demonstrated how treacherous these Buddhist " leaders " were. Do you need Gosho references ? Or is what your mentor wrote about the last chapter of one's life and one's death convincing enough for you ?

SGI Buddhas !! Indeed !!!
You are a shameless lot 😏
~Karie

[iainx...@gmail.com]

But Chas, this is exactly your behaviour which can be clearly seen by reveiwing your postings. The evidence for such is actual in relation to you (readers can chevk this for themselves by using the forum index):

"THEY TWIST WHAT IS LOFTY AND FORCE IT
... INTO A MEAN CONTEXT; THEY DESTROY WHAT IS EXALTED AND DRAG
... IT DOWN AMONG THE BASE, STRIVING TO PUT THE TWO ON AN EQUAL
... LEVEL.”

Whereas the charge you make towards others is a false assertion. Readers can also check that using the forum index.

You for instance accused me if slandering the Law, so I challenged you to provide evidence from my posting, you did not.

Is making false accusations not twisting and distirting things Chas?

You said the SGI membership I was quotunh were wrong, so I posted the SGI links and refernced the SGI books where they were published. Then you ckaimed tgey had a lot of "fuzz" in them so I confirmed with you that SGI has enough reliable information about it's members from different sources to publish reliable numbers.

I also pointed you to tge SGI USA leaders handbook about collection of statistics.

You then went back to saying they were "your (my) figures" and that they were wrong, rather than saying they were SGI's figures, which it had published.

Is not your stance and argument on these figures not twisting and distorting things? You knowingly insisted that they were my figures, when you knew full well they were SGI's own. Is that not deceipt?

So, thanks for capitalising the statement, you do indeed take what is lofty and force it into a mean context, you follow Mr Ikeda and the current day corrupt SGIkeda in squeezing the lotus Sutra, the Daimoku, Law and Buddha into the mean context of the SGIkeda's mentor-disciple teaching that postulates an erroneous transmission via that Guru bond, rather tgan by faith alone.

You have reapeatedly been invited to be clear and have been given the opportunity to do so, yet you have repeatedly chosen to be unclear.

Be well :)

[Katie Higgins]

iainx, I think you are pointing out a very fundamental aspect of the attitudes and beliefs that Chas exemplifies here; the same *ends* justifies the *means* attitude that produced forgeries, fake doctrines -- in the name of *widespread propagation*.

What is Chas actually propagating? if not; Make it easy, make it about materialism, make it into a *business* --- He has no more qualm about lying and manipulation than the originators of the transfer documents, the ogni kudon , the dai-no-honzon!! They all believed the *ends* justified the *means*--

Chas will continue to attempt to disrupt the unity of minds focused on faith here, because that is all he CAN do.

I am chanting with deeper appreciation for the opportunity to connect with sincere believers of Nichiren's teachings. Nothing Chas pulls can impede the "arrow from striking its target"--- this was Nichiren's promise.

Nichiren did not lie.

Cheers!
~Katie

[Chas.]

How you congratulate and reinforce each other's different delusions! What a deadly embrace.

Katie (and Mark Rogow) discard the parts of Nichiren Daishonin's life work that they disagree with: those parts that point to the erroneous nature of their practice of worshiping Shakyamuni as a GOD.

Bowing down to images of another human being, they are like impoverished and starving children looking through the window outside of the supermarket, who will never get to eat the nutritious food inside, but will perpetually place all their devotion and desire on that food.

Little do they know there is food in their pockets already: as common mortals they have always been and will always be true Buddhas possessing the three bodies of the Buddha received from their parents, and entities of the Mystic Law, the Buddha of limitless joy.

Iain is worshiping the Law itself and has divorced that Law from the true Buddha, who is a common mortal. He is like a man in prison on a hunger strike, who has the keys to his cell in his pocket: as a common mortal he has always been and will always be the true Buddha of Beginningless Time and the Buddha of Absolute Freedom.

Although they appear to believe differently: Katie and Mark thinking the eternal Buddha is someone other than themselves who they must worship, and Iain thinking that the Buddha is the Law and no one he would follow in particular, they actually agree. They all think the Buddha is outside.

How tragic and pitiful.

-Chas.

[iainx...@gmail.com]

"How tragic and pitiful." Well it might be were it true, fortunately like most of your other stuff Chas, it's not.

No divorce here, just solid cirrect practice as Nichiren taught.

Be well :)

[iainx...@gmail.com]

"How you congratulate and reinforce each other's different delusions! What a deadly embrace."

A perfect evaluation of today's SGI, thank you Chas. I agree, embracing the SGI's mentor-disciple teaching is indeed a deadly embrace.

Fortunately, millions of honest, sincere SGI members have realised that and have left (or been kicked out for raising a voice about SGI finances, lack of accountability, questioning or rejecting mentor disciple nonsense). Those lick souls, myself included, have slipped that deadly embrace.

We can only hope that the other 12 million members that SGI claims in it's published figures (probably actually much less), find their way to the lifeboats and safety before the supposedly unsinkable Titanic of the SGI breaks up and goes under.

Now that Mr Ikeda, Mr Harada, Mr Wada, Mr Kitano, Mr Keneda and the many other SGI Board members have steered the SGI on the disaterous course of mentor-disciple and it has collided with the immovable iceberg of reality (which was always going to happen if you set that type of course), it is simply a matter of time before the sea of suffering swallows it up and buries it's traces in the deep.

On a side not Chas, what both you and Richard don't seem to understand is the environment you are operating in now. Richard's taken you sectarian banner, thinking that sects and organisations spread the Law. Neither of you have understood unbounded, self organising networks and groups and how the digital environment plays into that and that's because you're both too old, not just physically but in your spirit - you don't have youthful spirit nor the senses of the young. Which pretty much sums up today's SGI an organisation that has aged quickly even though it's just about the same age as Chas. When that happens with people, it's usually because they're ill or running out of life force, at the end of their lives.

That's reflected in the age profile of membership, especially it leadership with their increasingly conservative, staid and rigid attitudes, particularly in the Western world.

Much as one lost soul is too many, even you Chas (I'm actually quite find of ypu even though you spout off rubbish and are probably not one individual), I don't hold out much hope that the rest won't get dragged down to the depths with the sinking ship. Fear is the biggest factor in preventing rational, wise decisions. Fear of change, fear of striking out on ones own, taking a chance on just focussing on faith and following Nichiren to see what happens. The SGI has filled it's members heads with fear and some have taken that to heart, with age comes rigidity if you're already fearful, solidified around a core of fearfulness.

To be fair, the feeling of fear that members feel is appropriate it's just that the cause is misattributed. Itcs right to feel fearful when your life understands at core that it's doing something wrong and is involved in something as unsavory as mentor-disciple.

That's a healthy response. Sadly that fear is channeled by SGI so it becomes about the consequences of not following the SGI way. It's very much like the pattern of abusive relationships, where the abused is incrementally stripped of confidence, so it becomes harder and harder to leave.

In the UK, Refuge is an organisation that provides spaces and safe places for women fleeing abusive parterships. In Buddhism, Refuge is the safe space for people fleeing abusive life circumatances and abusive organisations.

In Nichiren buddhism, Refuge is the Daimoku + Faith.

Study and practice arise from faith, study, practice and application of such, deepen faith. It is a virtuous cycle.

It is never too late to get your mojo back, not with Daimoku + Faith. It's intersting that the women's refuge movement was started by women who'd escaped abusive relationships to help others in a similar situation. Another example of the priciple of self organisation and bodhisattva action in practice and Mr Ikeda didn't even have to tell them to do it! How did they manage!!!

It takes on average 7 incidents before a person will quit an abusive realationship, in the UK and wider, abuse is now being recognised as not being physical but also in terms of mental abuse, manipulation and "controlling behaviour". Often, the abused take inappropriate responsibility for the their abusers actions, "It was my fault", "I did something wrong", "They didn't mean it". They often accept that they "deserved it". The abuser often sets up that situation be pursuading the abused to accept blame.

We can see this pattern with SGI too, in the Ikeda Wisdom Academy (that's an oxymoron!), we find a video lecture on the misleadingly titled Wisdom of the Lotus Sutra series. In one passage, in a lecture that has started off talking about "mentor" in relation yo The Buddha and after it has subtly and imperceptably shifted to talking about "mentor" but in relation to Mr Ikeda and Mr Toda, we find the statement "sometimes the mentor can be strict".

This is the same sort of mind game abusers play with the people they abuse. It's asking SGI members, in this case Young Men's Division to accept the strictness of the mentor and not to question it. Framed originally in the context of the Sutra and The Buddha, this context provides a sense of legitimacy for the mentor's "strictness", making it more pallitable, the implication "It's for your own good", "Don't fight it or question it".

In that lecture, the Buddha "mentor" is the launch pad for giving authority to the SGI "mentor", creating a false sense of trust in the latter and creating a misplaced sense of alturism from the latter. This is what mentor-disciple teaching is about and why Mr Ikeda and his SGI paid leaders use the word "mentor" to refer to both Buddha and SGI leaders.

This is why the SGI, presided over by Mr Ikeda, has redefined the Daimoku in terms if it's mentor-disciple teaching. So when it's members chant daimoku, they gave in mind Mr Ikeda, he's also now in the silent prayers. It's like North Korea Kim Jong Ikeda. But don't worry, even if he's strict with you, it's for your own good and he lives you really. Shudder...

Be well :)

[Katie Higgins]

Thank you, Chas for introducing the topic of "worship" as it pertains to our practice of Nichiren's teachings.

Hope it is okay with you that I clarify the definition of *worship*, using Webster's first definition.

" 1. reverent honor and homage paid to God or a sacred personage, or to any object regarded as sacred,"

I also think #7. is appropriate, " to feel an adoring reverence for (any person or thing)."

We, who claim to practice as Nichiren taught, acknowledge Nichiren's establishment of the basic elements of Buddhism, The Three Treasures; they are:

!. The Buddha, Shakyamuni
2. The Teaching, Myoho-renge-kyo (title of the Lotus Sutra's 28 chapters)
3) The Order: Nichiren and his followers.

Again, we who claim to follow Nichiren, base our practice on his writings exclusively. Nichiren is the one and only teacher, the foremost votary of the Lotus Sutra, identifying himself as Bodhisattva Superior Practices. It is a simple matter to conclude that *Superior Practices* are contained in is writings-- and nowhere else.

It is my teacher, Nichiren who declared the Gohonzon he inscribed as the supreme object of worship. How do I display *adoring reverence* for the Gohonzon? My Gohonzon is a copy of one inscribed by Nichiren- his Gohonzon, in own hand. My Nichiren Gohonzon occupies the highest place on my altar; it is protected within my altar cabinet; I make offerings of water, flowers, ever greens, fruit and incense to my Nichiren Gohonzon. I offer *my devotion*, offer my life, chanting the daimoku to my Nichiren Gohonzon,kneeling at my altar.

Basing my practice on Nichiren's writings, I have read thousands of his references to Shakyamuni and the Lotus Sutra, though unlike MY teacher, I have not committed the sutra to memory. I have no doubt that the Eternal Buddha, Shakyamuni is worthy of the same adoring reverence Nichiren shared from his own life, though unlike MY teacher, I have not studied all of Shayamuni's teachings and evaluated them in comparison to all other Buddhist teachings or read the treatises and commentaries that supported Nichiren's view of the supremacy of Shakyamuni's teachings. I wholeheartedly believe Nichiren's own declaration that he, Nichiren is a disciple of Shakyamun Buddha.

How do I display my own adoring reverence for Shakyamuni ? I have a small statue of Shakyamuni on the altar table beneath my Gohonzon. I bow in reverence to it and chant daimoku three times. I seriously consider what MY teacher would say about MY practice-- not taking any other *person's* opinion to heart.

I have an adoring reverence for Nichiren, MY teacher. I have read everything available to me, that he has written. I own the Major Writings vol 1-7 and the two volume set published by the Gakkai and recently encountered other translations of his works. I discard nothing of his writings, but I have to assume that there is a difference between a practitioner that focuses on *programmed* study, and one who has actually internalized the whole body of work that is, essentially Nichiren's teachings. You for instance, Chas have no reason to feel adoring reverence for Nichiren. It is not his writing that you internalize, therefore it is not the benefit of faith in his teachings that you experience.

WHAT do you worship Chas? --
The scroll that turned you into a Buddha --in the likeness of your sensei?
You show no reverence for the Gohonzon described by Nichiren.
But, You DO show adoring reverence for your Mentor, who ascribes to a perverse revision of The Three Treasures Nichiren taught; casting off Shakyamuni Buddha and assigning Nichiren a status Nichiren never claimed!
You show adoring reverence for the SGI that exemplifies no resemblance to Nichiren's own followers and true disciples. Could there be any greater disparity than that which exists between Nichiren's own followers and Ikeda's *genuine* disciples? I doubt it.


The SGI places the highest regard on material gain and worldly status !! Despite the SGI's pompous claims to promoting *value creation* and *human revolution* as the purpose and the benefit of Nichiren's Buddhism *for all humanity*, there is only evidence of the wealth SGI has amassed for its top leaders and the arrogant authoritarian behaviors of your elitist senior leaders. The SGI promotes itself, solicits members who are struggling and suffering and does nothing to contribute to society. Your self centered, organization-centric members do nothing to confront and transform the injustices that cause suffering; have no voice in the struggle for human and civil rights, you simply recruit those who are suffering as you align yourselves with the corrupt leaders and institutions who oppress and exploit *the people*.


Who do you feel adoring reverence for, Chas? Whose words and teachings have you internalized? To whom or what do you make offerings ? Definitely NOT Nichiren, NOT Shakyamuni Buddha and NOT the Lotus sutra!! Yet you claim to be practicing Nichiren's Buddhism?

This paragraph from your most recent scathing comment is really about YOU:

>>"Bowing down to images of another human being, they are like impoverished and starving children looking through the window outside of the supermarket, who will never get to eat the nutritious food inside, but will perpetually place all their devotion and desire on that food. "<<

You, Chas, are bowing down to the image of another human being, Your Mentor, and though you may now believe you are enjoying a banquet, I assure you I have no desire for anything on your menu, I have only pity for all of SGI *Buddhas* stuck in the 6 lower worlds. You have assumed that the world of *rapture* , that you experience after satisfying your longings, *hunger*, is the world of *Buddhahood*. Your superiority posturing is the world of *anger* and your unscrupulous tactics to defend your SGI is the world of *animality*. But how long can you protect the person you worship from the inevitable exposure of the actual proof that your beloved sensei has degraded the Daishonin and slandered the Lotus Sutra?

My teacher, Nichiren's life is fully documented; his teachings, his persecutions; his enlightenment ,and his enlightened state at the time of his death have all been recored and authenticated. Nichiren was in constant personal contact and continually received visits from his disciples and lay followers, and was surrounded by his treasured followers at the time of his death. There is no doubt that Nichiren is the Superior teacher of the Lotus Sutra for our time, attained Buddhahood.

Where is your Mentor, Ikeda? What is the condition of his life-- if he is still living?? And WHY are these matters of no interest to YOU?

How foolish you are to continue to speak with disparagement and ignorance about those who claim to be followers of Nichiren, based on the teachings of a *man* who has all but vanished from that BIG stage he built. You claim victories for SGI, insisting you & SGI are advancing kosen rufu on this stage--- yet no *curtain calls* for your precious, Mentor??

I won't engage in debating the doctrines of your aberrant sect with you, because iainx has already refuted your erroneous "mentor/disciple" doctrine and your false claims about the SGI. Nor am I engaging in any further correction of your petty accusations. I have read the writings attributed to Ikeda-- I needed nothing more than his silence in response to countless letters from me and very sincere SGI members to realize that he is not worthy of the respect you profusely expound here. Absent documentary proof of your Mentor's vigor and open arms for his treasured members, I find no reason to take you seriously.

In closing, I would like to say, with all due respects, that until you confront the evidence that your mentor is a phony and the SGI is a multi-level-marketing scam that provides wealth for a few of the most unscrupulous people on the planet, there is no potential for having dialogue or debate about the true teachings and doctrines of Nichiren's Buddhism with you. You have shown no desire to pursue serious investigation of the authenticity of your *doctrines. instead you show only disrespect and disparagement for those who have, like Nichiren, sought to clarify what is true.

BTW it bears noting that Mark Rogow references the whole body of Nichiren's writings, or Nichiren's "life work" as you put it. He is not the first, and clearly not the only practitioner who has noted the divergence from Nichiren's major writings that appear ONLY in the very FEW disputed documents you claim in support of your erroneous doctrines! So, it is YOU Chas, discarding the majority of Nichiren's teachings, and clinging solely to writings that appear well after Nichiren's death, in the hands of the Taisekiji priests.

My natural rejection of SGIs revision of The Three Treasures and fabrication of Mentor/Disciple as the *only* path to attaining Buddhahood was based on my own reading of Nichiren's life work and my faith in the truth written by , Nichiren himself, My teacher. I do, however, appreciate the scholarly efforts that have proven what I already believed.


" How you congratulate and reinforce each other's different delusions! What a deadly embrace. "-- YES! This describes you-- and your Ikeda worshippers aka, the SGI.

~Katie

[iainx...@gmail.com]

Thanks Katie for you're clear and thoughtful response.

To add to it, with regard "worship" or "devotion" as the SGI often translates this, you've really drawn out the focus of Chas's devotion and that of the SGI corporation, to Mr Ikeda. I'm sure you've seen it Katie, the pictures of Mr Ikeda, and sometimes the two other "presidents" occupying altar space in members homes or hung on the same wall that Gohonozon is placed on.

Also, whilst Nichiren urges people to make the Sutra their single focus, for them to "give themselves up to it", SGI members are urged by the corporation, to split that focus or redirect it completely onto Mr Ikeda, making a connection with him, understanding his heart etc. So Mr Ikeda occupies mental and spiritual space in their practice too. This comes about when SGI members "devote" themselves to studying SGI corporate "guidance" that encourages them to do this, reinforced by SGI corporate promolectures and corporate promoguidance, that do likewise and when they take that to heart and put it into practice, as those promocommunications urge them to do.

Devotion of thought, word and deed

It's striking that whilst you (and the many others who incorporate statuary on their altar set ups) are really clear about the correct object of worship and maintain focus on it, the SGIkeda corporation, is not and actively encourages it's membership to engage in devotion to it's leader in their faith, practice and study.

I watched a great Nichiren Shu lecture, where the lecturer made the point that with reference to Nichiren's teaching on the Gohonzon "this is one area that it is most important not to deviate or alter what Nichiren teaches" - "it is not permitted to do that".

Such a clear focus on the object of worship and exhortation to stay absolutely on point with Nichiren's teaching and flies in the face of the SGIkeda corporation's characterisations of Nichiren Shu and other Nichiren practitioners, misrepresentaion that is often repeated here by "Chas" as he seeks to mischaracterise 'the competition' in the face of the dwindling SGIkeda membership business.

It's also notable that whilst the SGIkeda corporation is content to reinterpret the Gohonzon in terms of its corporate "mentor-disciple" promoteaching, thus deviating from, adding to and altering Nichiren's teaching on Gohonzon, other Nichiren organisations and practitioners that SGIkeda claims are "slanderous", are clear that this should not be done.

What is Gohonzon?

According to Nichiren in the first Q&A in Honzon Modo Sho, the Daimoku of the Lotus Sutra is such. This is elaborated in the Opening of the Eyes in terms of the Buddha but reinforced in the "Willow Gohonzon" mandala that Nichiren inscribed, just before he faced likely beheading in the Tatsunakuchi persecution. Thus mandala is spare, the only ritual elements present are the Daimoku, Aizen and Fudo, all in their customary positions on the mandala.

Given this, the reinterpreration of the Daimoku itself in terms of SGIkeda corporation's "mentor-disciple" promoteaching, is likewise a deviation, alteration and addition to, Nichiren's teaching on the Gohonzon.

Given that Nichiren, when he inscribed the Willow Gohonzon mandala, had a very real sense that he was, at that time, facing the end of his life and that he didn't have much time, I'd argue that he incribed the most essential ritual elements on this mandala.

I'd also argue that he later elaborated on those elements as his thinking evolved and tailored those elaborations to the recipient, each of his extant mandalas are slightly different in terms of those elaborations but always the same in terms of their essentials.

The tailoring, is important, as you've drawn out, Nichiren had close and personal relationships with his followers, the network of votaries that he'd drawn together and facilitated (and he refers to other practitioners as "votaries of the Sutra").

Later efforts by priests who inscribed and tailored mandalas for a collective audience, can be seen in some of the sects, the Daigohonzon can be seen in this way. Whether it is right to do that and whether Nichiren actaully did that, is open to debate.

There are two ways of tailoring, one is to reflect a "perfect representation" in essentials and detail that will be relevant to all, which is the claim for the Daigohonzon. The other is to omit detail and strip it back to the essentials that apply to all. I belive this was Nichiren's approach when he wss facing immanent execution and that resulted in the "Willow Gohonzon" mandala.

If one is going to tailor for a collective, in the detail, I suggest it is important to ensure thise elements are approprate for all the different people who would use it, so deep consideration is needed.

With regard to the Willow Gohonzon mandala, although he didn't have much time, he also included the date, location and his seal.

In light of this, it is interesting he did not include further ritual details. Was the locational detail etc. more important? Or did Nichiren consider he'd rendered the most important ritual elements in the time available and was tgus content to place the mandala in time and space and affix his seal?

With regard to the current SGI mandala, although based on the Daigohonzon, it was inscribed and conferred on an individual, whose name was removed by SGIkeda, before the copy was widely distributed to SGI members. What difference that makes is open to debate.

In terms of the "mentor-disciple" SGIkeda corporate promoteaching and it's reinterpretation of Gohonzon mandala in terms of that promoteaching, that SGIkeda promointerpretation falls down in the face of the Willow Gohonzon mandala.

Chas can't claim that "mentor-disciple is on the Gohonzon" and point to the Buddha's and bodhisattvas on the Willow Gohonzon mandala, because they are not represented on that mandala. What is, is the Law.

Perhaps that's why Nichiren left this particular mandala when he wasn't certain he'd live much longer. A kind of benchmark if you will.

Based on this mandala, Chas might even complain that Nichiren only worshipped the Law and had divorced himself from the Buddha. I must say, it's rather heartening that I'm in such good company (even though neither Nichiren nor I have undergone such a divorce) though I'm still "mugwort growing in a field of hemp" or spending time with friends "in the orchid room" and have much to learn.

It might be worth opening a thread in Gohonzon and Nichiren mandalas and sharing the range of veiws / resources from across the Nichiren landscape? It's an interesting and important topic.

What say you guys?

[Katie Higgins]

Thanks iainx! Your thoughts on the more salient topics for further discussion are very interesting and much appreciated.I am looking forward to strictly focusing on Nichiren's teachings with the shared goal of expanding our own understanding . From this approach , the major, grave offenses Ikeda committed that completely derailed the SGI are more readily perceived.

>
> It's striking that whilst you (and the many others who incorporate statuary on their altar set ups) are really clear about the correct object of worship and maintain focus on it, the SGIkeda corporation, is not and actively encourages it's membership to engage in devotion to it's leader in their faith, practice and study.

I can only speak for myself, though I think it is reasonable to assume, that the inclusion of a statue of Shakyamuni on one's altar is almost a natural gesture after 10 or more years of following Nichiren's teachings exclusively and a complete severing of the ties to and influence of the SGI. In other words the understanding of Nichiren's practice and his attitude toward Shakyamuni can only occur for those practitioners who devote themselves fully to studying Nichiren's writings. Likewise, there is a very profound shift that occurs within one's life, or the effect, if you will, that manifests after consistenly making causes to follow the Law, as taught by Nichiren. So, when I say inclusion of a statue of Shakyamuni is a *natural gesture*, I mean that sincerely feeling an adoring reverence for Shakyamuni is the natural effect of genuine appreciation and deep gratitude for the *benefits* I received, which inspires also a more cogent connection or bond with Nichiren as One's only teacher. For me, this was a 28 year process, for Shijo Kingo it was 20 years between his taking faith and becoming a follow of Nichiren , 1256, and carving an image of Shakyamuni Buddha (1276). The letter from Nichiren instructing Shijo regarding *consecrating the image of Shakyamuni* Shijo had himself created, was written at least 3 years after Nichiren had bestowed Gohonzon for the sake of protecting for Shijo's infant daughter. So, the deeper meaning or significance of this *natural gesture* can be entirely missed, and worse misconstrued when viewed through the lens of the *promo-intepretationn* indoctrination members like Chas receive from the SGI. All references cited re: "No need for statues of the buddha...etc" are clearly correct teachings, but they are NOT admonitions or warnings as Chas and Richard have claimed. So, Chas will continue to slander the Lotus Sutra, Shakyamuni and the votaries of the Lotus Sutra so long as he upholds the "corporate mentor-disciple promo-teaching" of the SGI " (Excellent terms you came up with, iainx -- really descriptive of the machinations that drive blind loyalty)

> I watched a great Nichiren Shu lecture, where the lecturer made the point that with reference to Nichiren's teaching on the Gohonzon "this is one area that it is most important not to deviate or alter what Nichiren teaches" - "it is not permitted to do that".
>
> Such a clear focus on the object of worship and exhortation to stay absolutely on point with Nichiren's teaching and flies in the face of the SGIkeda corporation's characterisations of Nichiren Shu and other Nichiren practitioners, misrepresentaion that is often repeated here by "Chas" as he seeks to mischaracterise 'the competition' in the face of the dwindling SGIkeda membership business.

Yes, I believe this is an overlooked, crucial aspect of SGI's diverging from Nichiren's teachings to foster their exclusionary status, in the same manner anyone or any group creates their own *Brand* in the business world, "Brand* creation is a coveted status symbol that ensures the perpetuity of profit as much as it signifies a claim *to fame*. In addition to claiming special rights to the *one & only genuine* object of worship , in the early 70's Daisaku Ikeda made at least two attempts to copyright/patent "Nam-myoho-renge-kyo" His petition was repealed by other Nichiren sects. needless today, this was quite a revelation for any practitioner of Nichiren's Buddhism, who may not have seen any other reason to be suspicious of Pres. Ikeda's agenda.

> It's also notable that whilst the SGIkeda corporation is content to reinterpret the Gohonzon in terms of its corporate "mentor-disciple" promoteaching, thus deviating from, adding to and altering Nichiren's teaching on Gohonzon, other Nichiren organisations and practitioners that SGIkeda claims are "slanderous", are clear that this should not be done.

Well again, since SGI leaders and members internalize the words and teachings of their Mentor, they are without a doubt , totally incapable of employing even the most simple critical thinking with regard to the *true object of worship*. The hysterical reactions SGI leaders and members have to Gohonzons inscribed by Nichiren himself are, or should be like blaring alarms, bells, whistles, red flags, you name it-- THAT something is *rotten in Denmark*, so to speak. When it is noted that no such reflection or insight is developed even by Top SGI leaders, I sought out and found explanations in Nichiren's writings with special regard to the *effects of slandering the Law*--

>

> Given this, the reinterpreration of the Daimoku itself in terms of SGIkeda corporation's "mentor-disciple" promoteaching, is likewise a deviation, alteration and addition to, Nichiren's teaching on the Gohonzon.

I agree there is consistency of reinterpretation of the core teachings and doctrines of Nichiren , including the Gohonzon, evidenced by the "SGIkeda corporation's mentor-disciple propmteaching", --- It does not appear in the Lotus Sutra; it does not appear in Nichiren's writings and it slanders Nichiren's teaching on "The Three Treasures", basic elements of Buddhism; it does not appear on the Gohonzon.
THE MENTOR/DISCIPLE DOCTRINE IS A PRODUCT OF THE DELUDED MINDS OF COMMON MORTALS--

> Chas can't claim that "mentor-disciple is on the Gohonzon" and point to the Buddha's and bodhisattvas on the Willow Gohonzon mandala, because they are not represented on that mandala. What is, is the Law.
>

And references to the Law abound in Nichiren's major writings-- AND the main body of his teachings.

> Perhaps that's why Nichiren left this particular mandala when he wasn't certain he'd live much longer. A kind of benchmark if you will.

That makes sense, and put into the context of the imprisoned priest Nichiro who was the recipient having been *protected *, as shown by the fact that not only was he released from prison but this Gohonzon itself
was preserved and protected even after his death, we can conclude that Nichiren's practice was in exact accordance with the Lotus Sutra.

>
> Based on this mandala, Chas might even complain that Nichiren only worshipped the Law and had divorced himself from the Buddha. I must say, it's rather heartening that I'm in such good company (even though neither Nichiren nor I have undergone such a divorce) though I'm still "mugwort growing in a field of hemp" or spending time with friends "in the orchid room" and have much to learn.

Whatever responses Chas might make, they must be viewed in context of the indoctrination, brainwashing to a large degree, that he has submitted to as an SGI member with no seeking mind toward Nichiren and no reason to believe that it matters. Additionally, you, iainx, have brought out Chas' propensity for concrete thinking and aversion for critical thinking, by engaging in debate with him. Ironically, as Chas proclaims he and indeed all members of SGI are *Buddhas* , he displays through his own behavior here that intimidation, bullying or totally evading the issues are *key* when debating the teachings with other believers!! LOL-- too funny!

>
> It might be worth opening a thread in Gohonzon and Nichiren mandalas and sharing the range of veiws / resources from across the Nichiren landscape? It's an interesting and important topic.
>
> What say you guys?

I say, GREAT IDEA !!

~Katie



"

[Chas.]

On Saturday, July 9, 2016 at 5:07:50 PM UTC-7, Katie Higgins wrote:

[snip]

>

> How do I display my own adoring reverence for Shakyamuni ? I have a small statue of Shakyamuni on the altar table beneath my Gohonzon. I bow in reverence to it and chant daimoku three times.

[snip]

Instead of focusing on your fuzzy distortions of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism, let's focus on these clear and indisputable mistakes.

1. In spite of the fact that one might have the "supreme object of devotion throughout Jambudvipa", the Gohonzon of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism enshrined in one's altar, one has decided (horribly) to augment that with the lesser acretion of a statue of Shakyamuni, who is a provisional Buddha and a function of the true and eternal Buddha.

This fact itself is demonstrated on the Gohonzon, and in the ceremony in the air in the one chapter and two halves of the Lotus Sutra.
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/dic/Content/O/16

Shakyamuni is on the left and Many Treasures (Taho) on the right seated in the Treasure Tower, whereas in the assembly centrally located and predominant over all is the devoted name of the eternal Buddha: NAM-MYOHO-RENGE-KYO. The name of the eternal Buddha who presides over the domain of Jambudvipa (our reality) is in fact Myoho-Renge and not Shakyamuni: and that is true in three ways (santai), across all nonsubstantiality, temporary existence and the middle way. This could not have been made more clear by the inscription of the Gohonzon.

Shakyamuni and Many Treasures occupy the same seat in the Treasure Tower that arises when Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo is invoked and the ceremony in the air is recapitulated. That is manifesting Buddhahood, which is eternally inherent in all Buddhas (in all common mortals, in all living beings.) Shakyamuni and Many Treasures are provisional Buddhas and functions of the eternal Buddha, which is yourself and myself and all other selves across the ten directions and the three existences.

Otherwise one would be chanting Shakyamuni's name and not Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo. And then one's practice could not possibly work to make their life happier, even if it is true that one completely undermines the effects of chanting Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo with their abundant slanders, which you do and that is why you appear to be an extremely unhappy person, Katie. You merely have to empirically examine your "rhetoric", filled with ad hominem fallacious reasoning to adduce that, it's not rocket science.

"Ad hominem" meaning slurs directed at others, who are common mortals and the true Buddha, as opposed to the erroneous thoughts, words and deeds that they outflow.

2. Because of the logic of number 1 above, one should have discarded all other objects of devotion, which are lesser. This is because one's true nature actually DOES NOTICE that one is worshiping a lesser object of devotion than the supreme object of devotion, the Gohonzon: and then one has undermined their life condition, which WILL ABSOLUTELY DISALLOW ONE FROM MANIFESTING THEIR BUDDHAHOOD.

3. Then there is the practice of ignoring the teachings of Nichiren Daishonin that contradict one's slanderous practice: this creates one's own private version of the Gosho Zenshu (missing the contravening Gosho letters and the Record of the Orally Transmitted Teachings, which are hated by you all.) Creating this "personal and private" version of Nichiren Daishonin's writings is an example of what Nichiren Daishonin calls "appropriating" and "plagiarizing."
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/30#para-18

One hates these offending Gosho passages and those Gosho SO MUCH, that one cannot even open the book to those pages, and then one fabricates stories and reasons to discredit those hated Gosho passages and Goshos, and finally to complete this act of treason, one drops them from their appropriated and plagiarized version of the Gosho (if one is Nichiren Shu.)

4. Numbers 1 and 2 above are the reason why we don't chant to images, since images cannot have the true aspect, only the Gohonzon has the true aspect, which means without having aspect (from the Immeasurable Meanings Sutra, without which the Lotus Sutra would lack the clear understanding of true aspect, and would therefore be less complete.)

From the Gosho you hate, The True Aspect of All Phenomena, WND I, p. 384:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/40#para-6

... “All phenomena” in the sutra refers to the Ten Worlds, and
... the “true aspect,” to what they actually are. THE “TRUE
... ASPECT” IS ANOTHER NAME FOR MYOHO-RENGE-KYO; hence all
... phenomena are Myoho-renge-kyo. Hell’s displaying the form
... of hell is its true aspect. When hell changes into the
... realm of hungry spirits, that is no longer the true form of
... hell. A Buddha displays the form of a Buddha, and a common
... mortal, that of a common mortal. The entities of all
... phenomena are entities of Myoho-renge-kyo. That is the
... meaning of “the true aspect of all phenomena.” T’ien-t’ai
... states that the profound principle of the true aspect is
... the originally inherent Myoho-renge-kyo. This
... interpretation identifies the phrase “true aspect” with the
... theoretical teaching and “the originally inherent
... Myoho-renge-kyo” with the essential teaching. You should
... ponder this interpretation deep in your heart.
...

'The “true aspect” is another name for Myoho-renge-kyo; hence all phenomena are Myoho-renge-kyo.'

This is the fruit of the clear understanding of that description of true aspect.

If the true aspect was an image of Shakyamuni, then it could not be Myoho-Renge-Kyo, because Myoho-Renge-Kyo is without aspect, you cannot view it from any point and see an aspect.

Also, then all entities and phenomena could not be the true entity of Myoho-Renge-Kyo, without having the aspect of Shakyamuni, were Shakyamuni's image the true aspect.

All phenomena are the true aspect AND Myoho-Renge-Kyo, precisely because the true aspect means: without having the aspect of any specific or particular entity.

This also, BTW, explains that passage with all of the negations from the Immeasurable Meanings Sutra:

http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/lsoc/Prologue/1#para-23

'his body neither existing nor not existing,
neither caused nor conditioned, neither self nor other,
neither square nor round, neither short nor long,
neither appearing nor disappearing, neither born nor extinguished,
neither created nor arising, neither acted nor made,
neither sitting nor lying down, neither walking nor standing,
neither moving nor turning, neither idle nor still,
neither advancing nor retreating, neither in safety nor danger,
neither right nor wrong, neither gaining nor losing,
neither that nor this, neither departing nor coming,
neither blue nor yellow, neither red nor white,
neither crimson nor purple nor any other sort of color'

This is all straightforward and clear from the reading of the supreme teaching and the Gosho.

A second time, from the Gosho you hate, The True Aspect of All Phenomena, WND I, p. 384:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/40#para-7

... Although not worthy of the honor, I, Nichiren, was
... nevertheless the first to spread the Mystic Law entrusted
... to Bodhisattva Superior Practices for propagation in the
... Latter Day of the Law. I was also the first, though only
... Bodhisattva Superior Practices is so empowered, to inscribe
... [the object of devotion as] the embodiment of Shakyamuni
... Buddha from the remote past as revealed in the “Life Span”
... chapter of the essential teaching, of Many Treasures Buddha
... who appeared when the “Treasure Tower” chapter of the
... theoretical teaching was preached, and of the Bodhisattvas
... of the Earth who arrived with the “Emerging from the Earth”
... chapter. Though people may hate me, they cannot possibly
... alter the fact of my enlightenment.
...

Nichiren Daishonin enscribed all of those onto the Gohonzon. Not onto an image of Shakyamuni. Shakyamuni could not reveal the daimoku at the heart of the Lotus Sutra, not inscribe the Gohonzon, according to Nichiren Daishonin, who did both.

A third time, from the Gosho you hate, The True Aspect of All Phenomena, WND I, p. 384:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/40#para-7

... Therefore, to have exiled me, Nichiren, to this remote
... island is, I believe, an offense that can never be
... expiated, even with the passing of countless kalpas. A
... passage from the “Simile and Parable” chapter reads, “If I
... were to describe the punishments [that fall on persons who
... slander this sutra], I could exhaust a kalpa and never come
... to the end.” On the other hand, not even the wisdom of the
... Buddha can fathom the blessings that one will obtain by
... giving alms to Nichiren and by becoming his disciple and
... lay supporter. The sutra reads, “[The benefits he gains
... thereby will be such that] even the Buddha wisdom could
... never finish calculating their extent.”
...

Hence, slanderers, who deny the very intent of this sutra, which is its heart, commit "an offense that can never be expiated, even with the passing of countless kalpas."

However, there is hope even for them, because:

'The sutra reads, “[The benefits he gains thereby will be such that] even the Buddha wisdom could never finish calculating their extent.”'

Finally, a fourth time, from the Gosho you hate, The True Aspect of All Phenomena, WND I, p. 385:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/40#para-9

... Nichiren alone took the lead in carrying out the task of
... the Bodhisattvas of the Earth. He may even be one of them.
... If Nichiren is to be counted among the Bodhisattvas of the
... Earth, then so must his disciples and lay supporters. The
... sutra states: “If one [of these good men or good women in
... the time after I have passed into extinction] is able to
... secretly expound the Lotus Sutra to one person, even one
... phrase of it, then you should know that he or she is the
... envoy of the Thus Come One. He has been dispatched by the
... Thus Come One and carries out the Thus Come One’s work.”
... Who else but us can this possibly refer to?

-Chas.

[iainx...@gmail.com]

Chas you are a devotee of Mr Ikeda, who you have pledged unswerving alliegence to amd you're devoted to promoting SGI business aims. Let's just be clear on that.

But if you want to get into discussion on the Gohonzon, there is a new thread for that (It's interesting that "Richard" commented there and you here).

I find your interest in Gohonzon surprising given you're unwillingness to confirm the primacy of faith in Gohonzon over all other SGIkeda teachings, including it's mentor disciple nonesense, when you were invited repeatedly to do so. This suggests it is not others who are confused but you.

In some organisations, there is much talk and many claims about the attainment of buddhahood or non attainment of buddhahood. But do they know what they are talking about? Is what they say or advocate true? And how do we find out?

Nichiren made it his life's work to get under the many competing claims of the, mentors and teachers, schools and sects of his day and seperate false from true, good from bad, accurate from the distorted.

Here's an example of such a claim from SGI, which is run at arms length, by Mr Ikeda, with more day-to-day involvement by his son:

"If we forget the mentor-disciple relationship, we cannot attain Buddhahood."

(Lectures on the Heritage of the Ultimate Law of Life - SGI Malaysia 2009 page 115)

Such an assertive statement, suggests for all the world that Mr Ikeda knows what he's talking about.

But how does he know? Has he attained buddhahood? Has he taught and trained others who have attained buddhahood? And precisely what type of attainment of buddhahood is he talking about? The type that's way on the horizon, in some distant place or time? Or buddhahood as you are right now?

On one thing, he is clear, whatever type you're after, you're not going to get it if you as a disciple, "forget the mentor disciple relationship". Who's the mentor? Who most often do SGI members think of as "their mentor"? Answer - Mr Ikeda.

So Mr Ikeda is telling SGI members, as his disciples, that if they forget thier relationship with him, they cannot attain buddhahood. You can see the problem.

SGI is a business that's utalising the Nichiren "brand" to realise it's business goals. This is a fact not lost on an ever increasing number of it's members, who're quitting the SGI when it becomes clear to them that this is just what's going on.

In the religious sphere, SGI isn't the first and won't be the last to do this. It makes good business sense to build an empire on the fears, vulnerabilities or willingness of people who are sincerely seeking answers or solutions. It's a fertile market to tap into, if you can get a foothold.

Promising the attainment of buddhahood is a mighty big hook and the denial of buddhahood is a mighty effective lever. The allure of power, wealth and status and use of business and religion combined to satisfy those cravings, has a long history.

This is what Nichiren says aboit claims about buddhahood and false teachers:

http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/151

"The point of Dengyō’s comment is that, no matter how much people may talk about attaining Buddhahood in one’s present form, unless there are actual examples of persons who have done so, one should not heed their doctrine."

So, Mr Ikeda should, by rights be an example of someone who's attained buddhahood, shouldn't he? Or at least be able to point to people who, by following his mentor-disiple teaching, have. Proof of the pudding and all that.

SGI members might claim they were "born a buddha" but struggle to then tell you why they need to practice or follow Mr Ikeda and why if the don't, according to Mr Ikeda, they cannot attain something they already are. Others will talk about bringing forth buddhahood and cite some worldy material proof, the new car, job, etc. amd are quite oblivious to their behaviour as human beings.

What the latter are refencing is their supposed attainment of buddhahood in their present form but what really do tgey know?

This is what Nichiren has to saym

(Ibid)


"The attainment of Buddhahood in one’s present form put forward by these persons is an attainment of Buddhahood in name but not in reality. The doctrines of such people are utterly at variance with those of the Great Teacher Dengyō."

Doctines like mentor-disciple and human revolution. SGI promoteachings.

(Ibid)

"According to the Great Teacher Dengyō, regardless of whether or not one has cast aside the body subject to transmigration through delusion with differences and limitations, the intent of the Lotus Sutra is that one attains Buddhahood in one’s present form."

There you have it, a clear statement of the intent of the Sutra. So there should have been no loss of focus on Faith, Gohonzon and Sutra in the SGIkeda. No deviation to mentor-disciple promoteachings or muddling in of political aspirations, or fig leafing of laudable humanistic/himanitarian aims to cover the naked corporate ambitions. Just unswearving focus on faith, study and practice of the Sutra and Nichiren. Which ironically the SGI used to do, in the UK at least until it got taken over by the SGIkeda franchise.

Here's Nichiren again:

(Ibid)

"People who propound such a view, however, have no understanding of what attaining Buddhahood in one’s present form really means."

Spot on. Put simply, neither SGIkeda nor Chas know what they're talking about. This is reflected in their numbers, the almost halving of the SGI membership in 28 years, 25 of which when Mr Ikeda has bern in sole charge of SGIkeda's "spiritual" direction.

Nichiren again, this time disparaging oral transmission, erroneous commentary not firmly rooted in the Sutras and reliance on the person rather than the Law.

(Ibid)

Question: The Great Teacher Jikaku knew the Great Teacher Dengyō personally, studied directly under him, and inherited his teachings. You, on the other hand, are separated [from Dengyō] by more than four hundred years. Is this not so?

"Answer: Are those who have received the teachings directly from their teacher invariably free from error, while those who appear in later ages and examine and clarify these teachings are to be regarded as worthless? If so, then should we throw away the sutras and instead rely upon the four ranks of bodhisattvas? Should a person throw away the deed of transfer received from his father and mother and instead depend upon oral transmissions? Are the written commentaries of the Great Teacher Dengyō so much trash, and the oral traditions handed down from the Great Teacher Jikaku the only guide to truth?"

"Answer: These two men put their trust in the doctrines of the Tripitaka masters such as Shan-wu-wei. That is probably the reason they rejected the correct teachings of the Great Teacher Dengyō. They are examples of men who relied upon persons and turned their backs upon the Law."

There you have it again, the flaw at the heart of the SGIkeda from the oerspective of Nichiren. Or the deliberate design feature of the SGIkeda business model, beloved of many similar religio businesses whose purpose is to make money.

Let's read that again and make it clear:

"These two men put their trust in the doctrines of the Tripitaka masters (mentors)..."

Cause:

"put their trust in"

Effect:

"the reason they reject the correct teachings"

Nichiren warns against placing trust in mentors or teachers and losing focus on the correct teachings by holding up an example:

"They are examples of men who relied upon persons and turned their backs upon the Law."

So, placing trust in mentors or teachers who are not demonstrably anf firmly based on the Sutras amd who do not frimly and consistently exhort those they teach to only follow the Law, leads to reject the correct teachings and makes one into an example of a person who relies on the person and turns their back on the Law.

Put another way, if one is already someone who has a tendency to rely on the person one will likely place trust in mentors or teachers and so will reject the correct teaching (in favour of their mentor's own brand) and by so doing, will turn their back on the Law.

Chas and SGIkeda have everything to gain by pushing their promoteaching. What have a diverse group of Nichiren practitioners from various independent or sectrarian backgrounds got to gain? Go figure.

We're not going to get rich by it, we're not going to gain political influence and VIP status because of the block vote we command. We're not going to have our name in lights. Not so for SGIkeda and it's leader Mr Ikeda and his family.

We direct back to Faith, the Sutra, to Nichiren, we exhort practitioners to follow the Law. And for this, we are such a threat to SGIjeda's business we are prioritised in their efforts to protect their business interests.

Now why would that be? Think about it. A global conglomerate, albeit a dying business but still with a sizable foot print, supposedly led by a "buddhist philosopher" who according to him us is a "mentor for kosen rufu". Why would they bother investing any time or effort on what they like to characterise as a misguided and erroneous fringe. What is it we say that is so threatening to their business operations? Study Nichiren directly? Rely on the Law? Prioritse faith? Study the Sutra directly? Reject trachers and mentors where they are clearly varient with Nichiren and the Sutra? Yes those things are indeed threatening to a religio business that wants to manipulate it's members for profit and influence. As soon as people start critcally examining and comparion what SGIkeda teaches with what the Sutra and Nichiren teach, as soon as tgey start trusing thrmsrlves and relying in the Law, they see the errors in the SGIkeda promoteaching, guidance and promolectures. They see these materuals as low quality and deviant. They leave and get their lives and finances back. Then they have a real prospect of attaining buddhahood as they actually are and nit attempting to attain enlightenment by becoming Mr Ikeda's poodles. "what would sensie do" by becoming someine ir something else.

It's unsurprising that when they leave, their lives, families, friends and finances all breathe a sigh of relief. Continue faith and practice and they reap the benefits of the Sutea and Nichiren's teaching on it. Right here, right now, in their life circumstance as they are.

That's what's so threatening. Put simply, the doctrine of attaining buddhahood in ones present form and the correct means for doing just that. That simplicity and equality is a threat to all unaccountable, self serving elites and to hierachies that would exploit people, as SGIkeda does. That's in part why Nichiren was persuecuted.

Be well :)

[Katie Higgins]

THANK YOU, iainx ‼️❤️

This is so well organized and correctly supported it is perfect for wide spread distribution to SGI leaders and members. The main points of your refutation of the SGI mentor / disciple doctrine are easier to grasp in the context you employ- de-personalizing the actual argument while focusing on the evidence/effects displayed by the member you are responding to.

I also appreciate your mentioning the threat "we" pose and the relationship we develop with Nichiren focusing on propagation of the true teaching and refuting errors. The benefits we attain are inconspicuous, and yet they are so far superior to the material gain that fuels Ikedaism. This perhaps is another reason for SGIs mandates against members associating with us. So there is hatred and there is jealousy exhibited by the Law Devouring hungry spirits that troll these forums to gain favor from their " superiors" in SGI.

Nichiren describes Chas , his Sensei Ikeda and the leaders of SGI , in "The Origin of the Services for Deceased Ancestors" - written tinShijo Kingo on July 12, 1271.

"Law devouring hungry spirits are people who renounce the world and spread Buddhism. They think that if they preach the Law people will respect them, and because of their ambition for fame and profit, they spend their entire present lifetime striving to be thought of as better than others. They neither help other human beings not have a mind to save their parents. Such people are called Law - devouring hungry spirits who use the Buddhist teachings to satisfy their own desires. " ( WND vol. 1 p. 191)

I read this Gosho every year on the anniversary of the passing of my 8 day old son, July 12, 1993. Nichiren's response to Shijo Kingo's offerings in request for " the service for deceased ancestors" to be performed by Nichiren for Shijo's deceased mother, "Myoho , the anniversary of whose death falls on the twelfth of this month[July]" is a profound example of the heart and mind of a true votary of the Lotus Sutra. Referencing passages of the Lotus Sutra and evoking reverence and gratitude for Shakyamumi Buddha are always at the core of Nichiren's practice to eradicate suffering and delusion that causes suffering .

We need seek no one but Nichiren as a teacher and a guide for attaining Buddhahood in our present form .

With my sincere appreciation,
Namu Myoho Renge Kyo ‼️
~Katie

[iainx...@gmail.com]

Hi Katie,

I'm sorry to read of the loss, reading that Gosho must have had added poignancy for you. Thank you for sharing something so precious and the context that made it so.

I'm often struck by Nichiren's depth of compassion, it's one of his defining features and it's so much more than running around smiling or being fake nice or "subsituting courage for compassion", as some johnny come lately's teach.

Thanks for the feedback on style and soz for the typos. My thinking has evolved as the SGIkeda poison left my system. Once I started digging into the membership figures and started to examine the SGIkeda claims of effectiveness and "kosen rufu" performance in that context, it confirmed that it's a dying entity and it was something Alex said that prompted the question "why waste more time on a relgio business that's already been so effective at destroying itself?

Competition is the big headache for such an organisation, that's why it's had to box in Nichiren through interpretive promolectures and guidance. They can't get rid of him...yet, so they put him at arms length. Do you know a few years back in the mid '90's, there was a big push in the UK to study Gosho directly. The reason was "an over deoendence of members seeking guidance rather than studying Nichiren and applying their faith.". That lasted about a year or so, then was quietly dropped. I guess it didn't go down well with Japan's "special advisor" to the UK.

So long as the issues have been unpacked and examined and between us I think most of them have, Alex is right, letcs bit waste more time on low quality ptomo teachings or those that push them. There's enough material now, easily refernenced for readers and curious minds to access.

Time to provide an alternative that doesn't come in the form of a sect, "sangha" or a religio business but is just a bunch of diverse individuals, following the Law and having meaniful converstions using high quality sources.

That seems a much better way forward! Thanks Alex and thank you Katie. :)

Be well :)

[iainx...@gmail.com]

After almost a month in which Chas has not posted his duplicate "one post" posting, he resumes today. Chas has also left the discussions he cannot win, which is also usual.

Among other things, in the last month the forum has shown

1) the SGI Ikeda promotional teaching that the attainment of buddhahood is only possible by following the mentor (Mr Ikeda), is completely opposite to what the Lotus Sutra and Nichiren teach.

2) how SGI has almost halved in size for a claimed 20 million members in 1988 to 12 million today (SGI publised figures). Therefore that SGI claimes for it's leaders to be "advancing kosen rufu" are hollow, it has shrunk it's own membership base.

3) the current SGI and its adherants like Chas, do not have a clear and consistent understanding of Gohonzon nor do they present cogent argument or consistent postings on the matter.

Please be aware.

Be well :)

[Chas.]

Be aware that Iain declares falsehoods to be truths and visa-versa.

1. You misstate what the SGI and President Ikeda has said, as usual: Iain always twists what anyone says. President Ikeda said that Buddhahood is not possible if one violates the mentor-disciple principle (words to that effect, I don't have the quote handy, when you find the quote you'll see my version is much more accurate than yours.) Witness the example of yourself. Since you could not respect the experience and good judgement of your leaders and Sensei, you have appointed yourself the guru of a cult. Having turned your back on your Kosen Rufu vow made in beginningless time, instead of advancing into enlightenment, you are now falling straight into Avichi Hell and partenring up with the wardens of hell, Katie Higgins and Buku Mark Rogowm, members of the Kempon Hokke sect of the Nichiren Shu, un-indicted co-conspirators and perpetrators of the obscene Rape of Nanking and the Asian Holocaust during their Pacific War, along with their partners in Imperial State Zen and Imperial Shinto. Nice company you've found there, Iain.

2. Like I said, it's hard to say with varying methods of counting across the natural cycle of boom and bust propagation and the deleterious effects of operation C and the excommunication. Two steps forward and one step back, like the Lion.

3. How in hell would you know the contents of anyone's mind or faith in the Gohonzon. You are not God, Iain. Nobody is. And how would you expect a profoundly endarkened person such as yourself to understand anyone's enlightened life? Your understanding is utterly theoretical anyway, since you have less than a thimble-full of faith and compassion for anyone.

-Chas.

[Chas.]

On Tuesday, July 12, 2016 at 12:42:33 AM UTC-7, iainx...@gmail.com wrote:
> Chas you are a devotee of Mr Ikeda, who you have pledged unswerving alliegence to amd you're devoted to promoting SGI business aims. Let's just be clear on that.
>

[snip]

Readers will note (as Iain often instructs) that Iain dealt with not one of my 4 points and these are points he never has or will deal with effectively, because he cannot. He is following around and attempting the coddle the status worshipers in hopes they might join his Sangha or recognize it or something. ANYTHING for some kind of recognition.

Truly pathetic, how Iain has sunk.

-Chas.

[iainx...@gmail.com]

Firstly, I am very heartened you ard spending so much time in defence. Were others and me not highlighting real issues and discrepancies, as you have said, you would not waste any time on us. So your indulgence is a vote in favour of what we are saying. It is powerful and tgreatdning because it is true.

So worried are you and your SGI masters that the ground has shifted to trying to smear and discredit, you cannotatrack the arguments so attack the person. Excellent, excellent. How wonderful! :) I knew SGIkeda was weak, I just hadn't realised how weak it is. Our words have traction because they crystalise the misgivings SGI members have with what SGIkeda is teaching now. They can see the shift in teaching and culture,they can see the relentless push fir money and new recruits, they can see an ever increasing media profile for Mr Ikeda during a time when he hasn't been seen for years. They can see the constant encouragement to make the relationship with the mentor Mr Ikeda and not, as used to be, their own lives.

Your bucket has lots of holes in it Chas, it's unsurprising the water gushes out faster than you can fill it. Those holes are SGIkeda leadership, Mr Ikeda, Mr Harada, Mr Wada, Mr Ikeda's son, Mr Keneda, your lot SGI USA leaders etc. A doctrine of folllow the leader instead of the Law.

You wrote

Be aware that Iain declares falsehoods to be truths and visa-versa.

Evidence please. This is the differnce between you and me Chas. I reference examples and cite accurately. You do not. So now you need to back up your claim.

You did the same when you accused me of slandering the Law. I asked for proof but it was just libel you were peddling, you could not provide any proof nor an apology. It's enough for you to make a dishonest statemnet and attempt a slur. How wonderful, SGIkeda politicking in action, classic political tactics.

I'm waiting.

1) I quoted Mr Ikeda directly and referenced the quote. But it doesn't matter how you say it Chas, mentor-disciple is a "principle" only of the SGIkeda. The Sutra and Nichiren are clear, entry is through faith alone.

Where's the cult Chas? Wherecs the guru? It's great that you are so threatened because I'm so spot in with the things that you've dreamed up this notion to try and play my actions into the narrative your selling SGI members. Actually, I'm doing exacly what earned me top marks and a "very good" in the 2004 study exam. It is not I who turned my back on anything, it is the SGI and Mr Ikeda who have turned their backs in kosen rufu, the SGI and itcs members.

As for me, how can one cannot turn ones back on something that one is? It is not me who has guided the SGI towards its halving of membership, it is not me who has deviated from the Sutra. It is not me who glorifies myself, presides over and organisation that encourages it's members to glorify me. It is your mentor that has done all of that.

2. No it's not Chas, a 40% drop has nothing to do with external agents. I have directly asked you to support your claim of boom and bust cycles with dates and numbers, you have not. These are the figures SGI publish on it's membership. But you are sgowing SGI members how their organisations representative spin the figures when they directly show the effects of SGIkeda policies and tge hollow claims of their authors. You can bet that had the figures been 40 million, Chas woukd have been claiming there was no boom or busy cycle or fuzz in the figures. Thanks Chas for highlighting.

3) Well if I'd actually said that, I'd agree but I didn't. Here's the rest of the post you snipped so readers can check.

[iainx...@gmail.com]

XReaders will note (as Iain often instructs) that Iain dealt with not one of my 4 points and these are points he never has or will deal with effectively, because he cannot. He is following around and attempting the coddle the status worshipers in hopes they might join his Sangha or recognize it or something. ANYTHING for some kind of recognition.

Truly pathetic, how Iain has sunk.

-Chas."

Thanks Chas, I have dealt with all of your 4 points at some stage but by all means open individual treads on each and we will debate them there. I will refenemce back to each of the posts where they have been addressed. I will also expect you to stay with the discussion and not walk off when it becones apoarent you are losing.

Sangha/sect, yeah like an independent practitioner who sees things as resilient, flexible self organising networks is going to bother with such an outmoded ladt century model. Nichirdn say's there's no sangha in this age Chas, I gave you the direct quote. Sanghas and sects stuff is just for the SGIkeda faithful to try and keep them faithful. None needed. Indeed the 40g drop in claimed membership shows itcs not a very good model. It appeals to thisr who like to control others for gain and influence, exactly as SGIkeda has done.

[iainx...@gmail.com]

Is this lot untrue then Chas?

If anyone is in doubt as to how pervasive focus on Mr Ikeda is within today's SGI, look at these gems:

Soka University singing "We are disciples of sensei" to the Queen track of we are the champions.

http://markrogow.blogspot.co.uk/2016/07/soka-university-of-america-or-ikeda.html?m=1

Is that untrue? Are these not SGI members?

Or imitation of Mr Ikeda's fan dance by lots of SGI members:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bx2JZakRhL0

And another:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LOzubexeD3o

And another:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LFa6JsdKB3c

Are these fan dance imitations all untrue? Is that what you're claiming? If SGI members type into you tube or google search "fan dance" + "SGI" they wonct come across lots of these types of video? Or if they do, that itcs really another sect trying to present SGI activities as cult like, when actually none of that goes on and the org discourages imitative shows if this kind? Is that what you're saying?

Be clear Chas, are these or are they not made and posted online by SGIkeda or it's members? And do thry not representactivities that go on in SGIkeda centres?

Or "I Seek Sensie" song

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f6IvF1WupRg

Is this not and SGIkeda song? Is it not aimed at SGI Youth Division? Be clear Chas. You want to play truth and falsehood games, let's play! Letcs start by agreeing if these videos are true.

"In every way I seek sensei"

Which picks up and expresses the belief that is explicitly taught by the SGI since 2009.

Or perhaps the "My Mentor and I" song.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Oy3fN47e9FY

With the subtext, you need a helpung (big) hand to help your puny life along, you can't do it alone using your faith and practice.

And this song, is that true or false Chas? Is this an SGIkeda song used by it's members or not? Be clear Chas, what are you saying?

Go figure whether this is the diversity, individuality, independence and autonomy that Nichiren Buddhist blog claims.

From 2009 SGI has explicitly taught that if one does not follow the way of mentor-disciple one will not attain buddhahood, with Mr Ikeda as mentor of course.

In late 2015 SGI changed it's silent prayers to venerate Mr Ikeda as "eternal mentor for kosen rufu".

Is this not true too? Are you saying that SGIkeda did not change it's prayers in late 2015? That it wasn't a global roll out that happened for most members quite without much warning? That the decision to change the prayers wasn't taken by people who are unaccountable to the membership, behind closed doors? Is that what you're saying?

All of this Chas, is why I now describe today's SGI as SGIkeda, a corporate religious business that uses the artifacts of buddhism, the Lotus Sutra, Nichiren's teaching as props to generate revenue and further secular political aims.

There is little of SGI that I and others knew left. It's core teachings have been changed away from reliamce on the Law and faith alone, to reliance on the person of Mr Ikeda and the entity of the SGIkeda.

I do not have a choice about the Sutra or the Law. Even if I tried to leave it, which I have, it will not leave me. It is the same for many, my fellows in any Nichiren organisation or none. I owe my life to the Sutra and I do not stand to profit other than by paying the debt of gratitude I owe to all living beings, whom I'm dependently originated with, even you Chas.

It's quite revealing and laughable that you would spend do much time in a backwoods forum, tucked in the corner of the internet, trying to counter the claims of those you characterise as liars, cheats, deluded and hell bound people, when you claim your own business - SGIkeda - is supposedly so strong, robust and pure in it's teaching. Mr Ikeda states in the pages before the quote from his corporate promolecture on Heritage, that he is "at one with Nichiren". Likewise, you have stated you are at one with him, so you must in your mind be too. And yet you do not seem to understand this:

http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/3#para-1

"In the Latter Day of the Law, the votary of the Lotus Sutra will appear without fail. The greater the hardships befalling him, the greater the delight he feels, because of his strong faith. Doesn’t a fire burn more briskly when logs are added?

All rivers flow into the sea, but does the sea turn back their waters? The currents of hardship pour into the sea of the Lotus Sutra and rush against its votary. The river is not rejected by the ocean; nor does the votary reject suffering.

Were it not for the flowing rivers, there would be no sea. Likewise, without tribulation there would be no votary of the Lotus Sutra. As T’ien-t’ai stated, “The various rivers flow into the sea, and logs make a fire burn more briskly.”

Is this not curious. Your "mentor" requires his "disciples" to protect him. He requires them to protect the organisation he controls and draws salary from. Why?

The Sutra protects it's votaries Chas, which is why you cannot defeat me and why I do not reject your libel nor slander. I am not Nichiren, nor a buddha but I follow the Law to the best of my ability. That is enough, I'll know soon enough when it is not. The censure of the Sutra is far worse because it is ones life itself. That realisation is indeed the bitter pill that by it's cure, brings limitless joy.

The SGIkeda needs it's members to orotect it's interests because it is inherantly weak and does not enjoy the protection of the Sutra. If it did, you might correct something you felt was wrong and you would do so clearly and with compassion and a genuine concern not only for your organisation but fir the individual you thought was wrong. If you were indeed at one with the Sutra, you could not help but do that. But you do not do this Chas because you are not at one with it, you are instead acting against the Sutra's intent, as is SGIkeda with iycs corporate promoteachings, which it's members tgen have to protect because the Law will not. And as you defend, the situation for you and your org gets worse. You merely expose more and more of the divergence and variation from the Sutra and Nichiren's teaching on it.

Like people drunk, the people imitating senseics fan dances or singing songs about their mentor or seeking sensei, will sober up eventaully.

"What am I doing praising a man I've never met, encouraged and facilitated to do that by an organisation he controls?" they will ask.

"Why am I buying his books and subscribing to his magazines, that promote his organisation and him?" they will wonder.

"Why am I giving this mancs organisation my free time, skills, effort and money when I should be spending those on making my life, family and community better?" they will start to ask.

"Why did I buy into the notion that simply chanting Daimoku with faith, soending some regular time studying the Sutra directly and the Gosho likewise, isn't enough and that I also had to 'seek sensei' and follow him to get benefit?" And they will start to turn and look and see the common denominator. I did these things because I was encouraged to do them by SGIkeda. I was facilitated to do them by SGIkeda.

I was told I was on a mission to achieve kosen rufu by a man and an organisation that prides itself on numbers, targets and statistics yet has almost halved the membership since 1988 but was not told that inconvenient fact.

Rightly, I think most will feel cheated, discusted and decieved by such actions and probably not a little bit silly that they participated in songs and dances, that have now been plastered all over the internet, like the drunk wedding dancing, for all future friends, family and employers to see.

I wouldn't be surprised if they feel angry but they shouldn't harbour an unreasonable grudge, that will only harm them.

Warn others calmly is probably the best way forward, using your own experiences of how you were intoxicated into Ikeda teaching and encouraged and facilitated to make a fool of yourself when actually, you'd come to study and practuce the Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra, the Buddhism of Nichiren Daishonin and were promised initially that this is what you were doing.

Think back to how you slid in. At first Daimoku was enough, them you needed Gohonzon to "really get benefut and change your life", then you needed to do "activities for kosen rufu", cleaning, reception, shop, hosting, organising, singing, performing, etc. to get benefut ir change things. Then you needed to "seek sensie" or understand his heart or really make a bond with him, to get benefit and change your life. Ih and if course, if you've not got enough money, the only way to cgange that is to give to the "kosen rufu fund", money to the SGIkeda, which you nir any other regular member has control over, a say in where and in what it gets spent and has no udea how it is spent, because the SGIkeda doesn't routinely tell you, if at all. Do you see how it works? When you sober up, why not tell others so at least they can avoid the same fate. This is what Chas and his SGIkeda masters fear, people sobering up and doing just that, enmasse.

Already you're a long way from simple faith in the Daimoku and practicing to the best of your abilities when you've gone dowm that SGIkeda road. Already your a long way from what Sutra and Nichiren actually teach. Please read them, trust yourselves, get your lives and finances back and help others do the same.

The Law won't leave you, only you can decide not to follow it but that's in the Sutra too.

The SGIkeda party is almost over those who remain are either those who've had too much to drink and are much the worse for wear or those who are selling the liquor. I hope you don't have too much of a hangover, hydrate yourself in the water of the Law, drink in deeply, quench your thirst and calm your sore head.

Why should an organisation that has little community involvement other than trying to recruit to it's ranks on promises it will not keep get tax breaks? If the Government didn't make religious business so lucrative, full stop, chancers like SGIkeda and the various tele evangelists wouldn't be so tempted. Have you noticed, they're all on some kind of mission - mission sells. Just realise that the mission sold to their members is vastly different to the mission their corporate beneficiaries are on. The latter is all to worldly, fame, influence, political sway and most of all money.

SGIkeda is no different, a hungry wolf in sheeps clothing, tele evangelism buddhist style.

Wanna do kosen rufu? Really? Really? Keep chanting and using it to improve your life and your relationships incrementally then share it naturally as and when people ask or need and support them when they too want to do the same. You'll know how. It's that simple.

What's mine? "You're always happy, so positive" I'm not and I don't need to pretend when I'm not but people see the Law working, even when I'm not. It's a constant refrain, consistent now over years. If I'm really having a hard time, help is always there, I'm naturally supported, help is offered freely and sometimes unexpectedly. That's not gone away because I left, in fact it has gotten stronger and friends and family have breathed a sigh of relief, they've always supported my Buddhist practice but it's interesting that they too could see the latter changes in the SGI to SGIkeda and I didn't even know they'd picked up on it! To a person, they're pleased I'm still practicing, that bit they recognised as being valuable and worthwhile.

Be well :)

[Katie Higgins]

Jazzin' Chas and his worn out riff !!

Chas says;

>>"> 3. How in hell would you know the contents of anyone's mind or faith in the Gohonzon. "<<

AFTER HE has claimed:

>>" you have appointed yourself the guru of a cult. Having turned your back on your Kosen Rufu vow made in beginningless time, instead of advancing into enlightenment, you are now falling straight into Avichi Hell and partenring up with the wardens of hell, Katie Higgins and Buku Mark Rogowm, members of the Kempon Hokke sect of the Nichiren Shu, un-indicted co-conspirators and perpetrators of the obscene Rape of Nanking and the Asian Holocaust during their Pacific War, along with their partners in Imperial State Zen and Imperial Shinto. Nice company you've found there, Iain."<<

I am not a member of ANY sect, Chas--- nor is Mark according to his statements on his own blog, Eagle Peak. The accusations you again spew about Nichiren Shu were refuted (soon to be easily accessed on an index ianix is constructing to limit the effects of your disruption tactics)--You never mention that SGI approached Nichiren Shu to obtain a Nichiren Gohonzon after SGI was excommunicated-- and that SGI attempted to align with Nichiren Shu as THEIR lay organization-- last ditch effort before applying for their own 501(c)(3) IRS tax exempt status as a RELIGION! That's important background info that Chas cannot work into his mischief making! Or can discount, because like. SGIkeda, CHAS is the ONLY authority !!

Jazzin' Chas screams out:

>>"3. You are not God, Iain. Nobody is.!!<<"

Uh-huh right, Chas this is a discussion about Nichiren Buddhism-- the Law is the object of devotion-- NO god worshipping whatsoever--But somehow you have been convinced that there is a person/deity aspect to the "buddhism' you practice-- the *person* centered, Ikeda worshipping cult, SGIkeda, grants you the authority to say:

>>" And how would you expect a profoundly endarkened person such as yourself to understand anyone's enlightened life? Your understanding is utterly theoretical anyway, since you have less than a thimble-full of faith and compassion for anyone.<<"

Jazzin' Chas HAS SPOKEN !!

Not very enlightening, Chas--

But you do real the intimidation, bullying and hell fire and brimstone tacticskeda that the non-Buddhist corporation, SGI employs to keep its members in check!!

Bad, show 'ol boy!!

~Katie

[Chas.]

Very Trumpish, the way you do ad hominem fallacious assaults. You vomit out Jazzin' Chas the same way Trump vomits out Lyin' Ted, Little Marco or Crooked Hillary.

Very Trumpish, Katie Higgins.

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

And YOU, Chas-- use bull baiting to avoid accountability for your stupidity!

BTW, your lack of understanding the Lotus Sutra shows up in your mistaken perceptions of worldly affairs-- especially as they apply to our connectedness to them--

You, Chas are the spewer of one line ad hominem-- and continue when the accusations you make are proven false-- and in that way imitate the political rhetoric of the very lowest of the low in our current presidential campaign. That's the TRUMP primer, you are following -- your Mentor would be proud??
Please locate Ikeda and ask him!!

~Katie

[Chas.]

Katie Higgin's Errors:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren/xJD6LNGes-E/T7xhQ2DbAAAJ

___________________________________________________________

One more time I will offer up the Immeasurable Meanings Sutra passage explaining the true aspect, which is why Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo is the daimoku and why the Gohonzon is the supreme object of worship and not pictures or statues of dogs, cats, elephants, people, Shakyamuni, Nichiren Daishonin, or any Hindu combinations thereof.

Immeasurable Meanings Sutra, Chapter 2, "Preaching the Law", Lotus Sutra pp.12-13:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/lsoc/Prologue/2#para-5

... The Buddha said: “Good men, this single doctrine is called
... the doctrine of immeasurable meanings. If bodhisattvas wish
... to practice and study these immeasurable meanings, then
... they should observe and perceive how ALL PHENOMENA, FROM
... THE BEGINNING DOWN TO THE PRESENT, ARE IN NATURE AND ASPECT
... EMPTY AND TRANQUIL, WITHOUT BIGNESS OR LITTLENESS, WITHOUT
... BIRTH OR EXTINCTION, NOT ABIDING, NOT MOVING, NEITHER
... ADVANCING NOR RETREATING, BUT LIKE VACANT SPACE, WITHOUT
... ANY DUALISM.
...
... “But living beings in their VAIN DELUSIONS MAKE WILD
... CALCULATIONS, SAYING, THIS IS ONE THING, THAT IS ANOTHER,
... THIS BRINGS GAIN, THAT BRINGS LOSS, AND GIVE RISE TO
... THOUGHTS THAT ARE NOT GOOD, CARRYING OUT EVIL ACTS,
... transmigrating through the six paths of existence and
... undergoing sufferings and bitterness for immeasurable
... millions of kalpas without ever being able to escape.
...
... “Bodhisattvas mahasattva, clearly perceiving that this is
... so, are moved to pity in their minds, and inspired by great
... compassion, wish to rescue these beings from their plight.
... THEY SHOULD THEN ONCE MORE ENTER DEEPLY INTO THE STUDY OF
... ALL PHENOMENA. IF THE ASPECTS OF PHENOMENA ARE SUCH, THEN
... SUCH-AND-SUCH PHENOMENA WILL BE BORN. IF THE ASPECTS OF
... PHENOMENA ARE SUCH, THEN SUCH-AND-SUCH PHENOMENA WILL
... ABIDE. IF THE ASPECTS OF PHENOMENA ARE SUCH, THEN
... SUCH-AND-SUCH PHENOMENA WILL CHANGE. IF THE ASPECTS OF
... PHENOMENA ARE SUCH, THEN SUCH-AND-SUCH PHENOMENA WILL
... UNDERGO EXTINCTION. IF THE ASPECTS OF PHENOMENA ARE SUCH,
... THIS CAN LEAD TO THE BIRTH OF BAD PHENOMENA. IF THE ASPECTS
... OF PHENOMENA ARE SUCH, THIS CAN LEAD TO THE BIRTH OF GOOD
... PHENOMENA. AND THE SAME APPLIES IN THE CASE OF THE ABIDING,
... CHANGING, AND EXTINCTION OF PHENOMENA.
...
... “When bodhisattvas have in this manner OBSERVED THE
... BEGINNING AND END OF THESE FOUR ASPECTS AND HAVE UNDERSTOOD
... THEM IN THEIR ENTIRETY, THEN THEY WILL CLEARLY PERCEIVE
... THAT ALL PHENOMENA, NEVER ABIDING FROM ONE INSTANT TO
... THE NEXT, ARE CONSTANTLY BEING BORN ANEW AND PASSING INTO
... EXTINCTION, AND THEN THEY WILL IMMEDIATELY PERCEIVE THE
... TRUE ASPECT OF BIRTH, ABIDING, CHANGE, AND EXTINCTION.
...
... “Once they have gained this perception, then they must turn
... to the capacities, natures, and desires of living beings.
... Because such natures and desires are immeasurable in
... variety, the ways of preaching the Law are immeasurable;
... and because the ways of preaching the Law are immeasurable,
... its meanings are likewise immeasurable. THESE IMMEASURABLE
... MEANINGS ARE BORN FROM A SINGLE LAW, AND THIS LAW IS
... WITHOUT ASPECT. WHAT IS WITHOUT ASPECT IS DEVOID OF ASPECT
... AND DOES NOT TAKE ON ASPECT. NOT TAKING ON ASPECT, BEING
... WITHOUT ASPECT, IT IS CALLED THE TRUE ASPECT.
...
... “When bodhisattvas mahasattva rest and abide in this
... understanding of the true aspect of all phenomena, then the
... pity and compassion that they put forth will be based on
... clear understanding and not groundless, and they will be
... truly capable of rescuing living beings from the sufferings
... that they undergo. And once they have rescued them from
... suffering, they will preach the Law for them and enable
... living beings to enjoy ease and delight.

So, Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo really does not sound like anything else and the Gohonzon really does look like anything else, not like a picture or a statue of Shakyamuni.

It reflects the inner glory of a common mortal, who is the true Buddha.

-Chas.

[iainx...@gmail.com]

Chas you made accusations of lying and falsehood earlier in this thread.

So now present your evidence please. I am waiting also for you to open the 4 threads to debate the questikns you have accused us of not addresseing. You have not done this but have put in 4 duplicate posting threads.

Failure to open those threads and enter debate will be taken as acknowledgemnet if your defeat, it will be indexed so when you attempt to lay the charge again, it can be brushed off appropriately. Just as you are out of your depth with the Sutra and non buddhist teachings, you are also out of your depth as a troll. But it's all good, I warned you previously, you are an instrument of the Law, whether you believe that or not doesn't matter, you are both necessary snd useful here. Thank you :)

I reproduce the rest of the post for refernce.

This is the differnce between you and me Chas. I reference examples and cite accurately. You do not. So now you need to back up your claim.

You did the same when you accused me of slandering the Law. I asked for proof but it was just libel you were peddling, you could not provide any proof nor an apology. It's enough for you to make a dishonest statemnet and attempt a slur. How wonderful, SGIkeda politicking in action, classic political tactics.

I'm waiting.

1) I quoted Mr Ikeda directly and referenced the quote. But it doesn't matter how you say it Chas, mentor-disciple is a "principle" only of the SGIkeda. The Sutra and Nichiren are clear, entry is through faith alone.

Where's the cult Chas? Wherecs the guru? It's great that you are so threatened because I'm so spot in with the things that you've dreamed up this notion to try and play my actions into the narrative your selling SGI members. Actually, I'm doing exacly what earned me top marks and a "very good" in the 2004 study exam. It is not I who turned my back on anything, it is the SGI and Mr Ikeda who have turned their backs in kosen rufu, the SGI and itcs members.

As for me, how can one cannot turn ones back on something that one is? It is not me who has guided the SGI towards its halving of membership, it is not me who has deviated from the Sutra. It is not me who glorifies myself, presides over and organisation that encourages it's members to glorify me. It is your mentor that has done all of that.

2. No it's not Chas, a 40% drop has nothing to do with external agents. I have directly asked you to support your claim of boom and bust cycles with dates and numbers, you have not. These are the figures SGI publish on it's membership. But you are sgowing SGI members how their organisations representative spin the figures when they directly show the effects of SGIkeda policies and tge hollow claims of their authors. You can bet that had the figures been 40 million, Chas woukd have been claiming there was no boom or busy cycle or fuzz in the figures. Thanks Chas for highlighting.

3) Well if I'd actually said that, I'd agree but I didn't. Here's the rest of the post you snipped so readers can check.

- show quoted text -

[iainx...@gmail.com]

Chas, carry on mate but you are a discredited voice within this forum. There us now enough easily refernced evidence of a constitent pattern of behavoiur. Soon that will all be undexed and easily avialable to readers, SGI members. You reighn as an SGIkeda troll is over. By all means come and join some decent discussion but you'll have to bring something differnt if you want to get taken at all seriously by anyone other than Julian.

Be well :)

[Katie Higgins]

FYI Chas-- your recycled load of horse shit has been refuted to DEATH !

One trick pony, Chas--

His defeat lies in his choosing the wrong teacher, who teaches *tricks* instead of the Lotus Sutra, and reverence for Shakyamnui. Ikeda uses trickery to avert your eyes from Nichiren -- but you are the clown who falls for them!!

~Katie

[Chas.]

You three (Buku Mark Rogow and Katie Higgins, statue worshipers of the Kempon Hokke sect of the Nichiren Shu, un-indicted co-conspirators in the Rape of Nanking and the Asian Holocaust of the Pacific War, and Iain, guru of Iain Buddhism, and attempting to acquire said statue worshipers into his new statue worshiping sect) think that a cogent argument is a declaration of victory, it is not. All of your points have been answered here or there, I can't keep up with your foolish scoring. If you look you will find the answers.

If you summon up all your questions that you think have not been answered (in short form, otherwise I won't bother), I will try and find the answers I have already given that you may or may not have accepted and reply them back to you.

-Chas.

[Katie Higgins]

. "You have a pattern of trying to discredit opponents Chas, readers can check for themselves by going to the index https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren/z6wVQgVt0l0g "

Be well :-)

[iainx...@gmail.com]

Ditto Katie's post:

https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren/z6wVQgVt0l0

[Katie Higgins]

On Tuesday, July 19, 2016 at 2:00:09 AM UTC-4, iainx...@gmail.com wrote:
> Ditto Katie's post:
>
> https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren/z6wVQgVt0l0

This may be more informative with regard to *statue worshipping* accusations?
https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!msg/alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren/xJD6LNGes-E/C5LK2RpsBAAJ

I feel better already

Ahhhhh :-)
~Katie

[Chas.]

Well, when you get around to a quick summary of your questions, I'll have a look at them and try to answer them again.

-Chas.

[iainx...@gmail.com]

Questions oustanding from this thread:

1)

You wrote:

"Be aware that Iain declares falsehoods to be truths and visa-versa."

I asked you to provide evidence to back up your assertion.

"Evidence please. This is the differnce between you and me Chas. I reference examples and cite accurately. You do not. So now you need to back up your claim."

2) You claimed I had set up a cult amd appointed myself as guru.

I asked:

Where's the cult Chas? Where's the guru?

Please provide your evidence from my posting to show

A) which I have cult I am supposed set up
B) any evidence of the existence of such a cult
C) any evidence that I have appointed myself as a guru & contra evidemve from my posting

3) I have directly asked you to support your claim of boom and bust cycles for SGI membership, with dates and numbers, you have not.

Please do this now.

4) you wrote "How in hell would you know the contents of anyone's mind or faith in the Gohonzon."

Please provide evidence that I said this within the discussion.

5) I asked you whether the various SGI You Tube Videos were true or not.

Please provide an answer.

6) I stated "In late 2015 SGI changed it's silent prayers to venerate Mr Ikeda as "eternal mentor for kosen rufu"."

And asked you:

A) Is this not true too?

B) Are you saying that SGIkeda did not change it's prayers in late 2015?
C) That it wasn't a global roll out that happened for most members quite without much warning?
D) That the decision to change the prayers wasn't taken by people who are unaccountable to the membership, behind closed doors?

Please provide clear and concise answers to these 4 questions.

7) I asked you:

Your "mentor" requires his "disciples" to protect him. He requires them to protect the organisation he controls and draws salary from. Why?

Please provide a clear and concise answer to this question.

8) You claimed we had not answered your questions and gave that as a reason for our subsequent posts, claiming we were dodging them.

I responded that they had already been dealt with. To accomodate you, I invited you to open 4 threads (one for each question) to allow us to debate these with you. This was to settle the matter for each qiestion once and for all.

Please confirm that you have not opened those threads to allow the matter to be debated.

Be well :)

[Chas.]

On Wednesday, July 20, 2016 at 9:54:15 AM UTC-7, iainx...@gmail.com wrote:
> Questions oustanding from this thread:
>
> 1)
>
> You wrote:
>
> "Be aware that Iain declares falsehoods to be truths and visa-versa."
>
> I asked you to provide evidence to back up your assertion.
>
> "Evidence please. This is the differnce between you and me Chas. I reference examples and cite accurately. You do not. So now you need to back up your claim."
>

Your evils: Turning your back on your Bodhisattva vow made in beginningless time in thousands of ways, attacking true Buddhism in thousands of ways, attacking the Sangha and movement for Kosen Rufu in thousands of ways, showing your utter lack of appreciation for your connection to your various mentors in the SGI in thousands of ways, covering that up by denying that you ever had any mentors in the SGI in thousands of ways, covering that up by denying that disciples have mentors in thousands of ways, and all this in blithe smug self-righteousness as a new guru of a new and forming Sangha of the worst kind of distorters and slanderers imaginable.

Evidence: You know where your postings are located and their slanders are written in full karmic detail by the Gods Same Birth and Same Name into the #8 ālaya-consciousness (ālaya-vijnāna):
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/34
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/dic/Content/N/62

They are now approaching the uncountable.

> 2) You claimed I had set up a cult amd appointed myself as guru.
>
> I asked:
>
> Where's the cult Chas? Where's the guru?
>
> Please provide your evidence from my posting to show
>
> A) which I have cult I am supposed set up
> B) any evidence of the existence of such a cult
> C) any evidence that I have appointed myself as a guru & contra evidemve from my posting
>

Iain's Sangha: Attempted here and failed so far, and attempted in starting a new newsgroup for your Sangha and failing that as well, and this has been pointed out to you and others have noticed and spoken about it in posts, of which you are already aware of and live in denial of in spite of it having been pointed out abundantly.

Evidence: You know where your postings are located and their slanders are written in full karmic detail by the Gods Same Birth and Same Name into the #8 ālaya-consciousness (ālaya-vijnāna):
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/34
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/dic/Content/N/62

>
> 3) I have directly asked you to support your claim of boom and bust cycles for SGI membership, with dates and numbers, you have not.
>
> Please do this now.
>

I have taken note of this by watching the NSA and then the SGI go through many, many changes. If you haven't paid attention to that, I can't help the blind to see. You have to open your eyes yourself. Please do this now.

> 4) you wrote "How in hell would you know the contents of anyone's mind or faith in the Gohonzon."
>
> Please provide evidence that I said this within the discussion.
>

You have talked many times about the corporate nature of leaders in the SGI, which means less faith in the Gohonzon and the Law and more in money-grubbing, which is clearly impermanence personified. The SGI is in this for the long haul, and that means building and re-building an organization over and over, to do Kosen Rufu, and not giving up and throwing in the towel on your Kosen Rufu vow and running off by yourself to start your own show, which you have done!

> 5) I asked you whether the various SGI You Tube Videos were true or not.
>
> Please provide an answer.
>

I don't spend very much time on Youtube, too busy. However, each person makes their own kind of communication and declaration of their own self. Bless their heart for trying!

> 6) I stated "In late 2015 SGI changed it's silent prayers to venerate Mr Ikeda as "eternal mentor for kosen rufu"."
>
> And asked you:
>
> A) Is this not true too?
>
> B) Are you saying that SGIkeda did not change it's prayers in late 2015?
> C) That it wasn't a global roll out that happened for most members quite without much warning?
> D) That the decision to change the prayers wasn't taken by people who are unaccountable to the membership, behind closed doors?
>

The prayers have changed constantly over time, even before the split. Almost every edition of the Gongyo book has had changes over the years, although I tend to keep them for quite a while, so I'm no metric. The current prayers are fine. Without Mr Makiguchi-s personal sacrifice, and the continuous efforts of Mr. Toda and Sensei, the world would be a vastly darker place, if it hadn't ended radioactively in 1962.

>
> Please provide clear and concise answers to these 4 questions.
>
> 7) I asked you:
>
> Your "mentor" requires his "disciples" to protect him. He requires them to protect the organisation he controls and draws salary from. Why?
>
> Please provide a clear and concise answer to this question.
>

When Sensei's loyal disciples, who are now running things, ask for the members to show appreciation to Sensei and the organization and actually stand up against evil-doers like yourself and your proto-Sangha of distorters and SGI-haters, to protect the SGI ... well, why the hell not?

I'm happy to oblige.

> 8) You claimed we had not answered your questions and gave that as a reason for our subsequent posts, claiming we were dodging them.
>
> I responded that they had already been dealt with. To accomodate you, I invited you to open 4 threads (one for each question) to allow us to debate these with you. This was to settle the matter for each qiestion once and for all.
>

Many times we have gone over this same ground, you cling to the tattered straws of your erroneous beliefs and your little proto-Sangha of statue worshipers in your contretemps, and I am still with the SGI, do or die. And yes, I am an organization man. We are at an impasse.

Alex has called me derisively a "businessman", as if that were a curse? My work for my customers is crucially important to me, but Buddhism is life itself.

-Chas.

[iainx...@gmail.com]

Thanks Chas, I note a distinct lack of evidence and yet more charges of evil doing and false assertions.

Quite apart from misrepresenting my arguments, which are about a change and corruption in SGI teaching and which every SGI member is expected to challenge as I have done, you have not cited even one posting of mine to support your case.

Last night, I updated the index to include amongst other things many of the recent threads. You do not have the excuse of not being able to find the refernces you need, so why not support your assertions?

You have accused me of slandering the Law but no proof from my postings. You have accused me of lying but no proof. I have pointed out on several occassions that you have never challenged the accuracy of the material I cite.

As for depth if faith My Ikeda himself makes the same observation regarding the SGI and it's leaders that I do, namely that posotion in the organisation is not correlated with depth of faith and that there is an ever present potentisl for corruption. I have directly cited this passage to you Chas, you forgot to mention that. Richard Causton and Izumi both agrer with Mr Ikeda.

The most honest thing you have said is that Mr Ikeda is not now running things. Much earlier in the conversation,

I postulated that Mr Ikeda had been sidelined and that the current SGI teachings and guidance were bit coming from him but from people who had seized control and were shaping the SGI into the organisation that served their needs using the device of putting stuff out in Mr Ikeda's name. You forgot to mention that bit too.

So, my post above stands, you have not provided evidence, I invite you once again to support your claims. I am also asking you to be fair, where you kniw full well that I have credited SGI and Mr Ikeda, I expect you, if you have any integrity, to refernce that and provude a balanced picture. I hope you will chant sincerely and di just that.

I have no fear Chas, I already know what's written in my karmic record, do you not think the "Gods of same birth same name" do not report their findings to me from moment to moment? Do you not realise that this is the reason I came here?

Do you not understand that as well as discharging the duty to expose tge degeneration and corruption that has beset the SGI in latter years "now that others are running things" my deeds to point always back to the Sutra, to Nichiren and to emphasise faith, emphasise tgat one shoukd follow the Law, is exactly what is required for me to fulfil my vow.

You have described yourself as an organisational man, another true statement.

I am one of the Sutra's many votaries, meaning that I devote myself to it, meaning I have taken a vow to protect it and spread it in thought, word but most imporantly deed. Thus is why I resect and revere others who do likewise, regardless of sect or none. Itcs that simple.

I argue from this stance and this stance alone.

We are indeed at an impasse, organisational man meets votary.

But Chas, it's OK, one day you will join me and my many fellows, we will welcome you and you will use your experience as an organisational man and your mistakes in following the person, to help and guide others correctly and that's as it should be. That my friend is why both the Devadatta and Never Disparaging chapters exist. That is why the Lotus Sutra is superior to the Flower Garland and all other Sutras, the promise ff Buddhahood for all and the means to achieve it as one is.

We are all ordinary worldlings living in the latter age, we all have evil karma and are beset by delusion. That's why the Sutra exists. Someday I hope you will read and understand it and I hope that day comes soon.

I wish you well :)

Be well! :)

[Chas.]

On Wednesday, July 20, 2016 at 11:46:36 PM UTC-7, iainx...@gmail.com wrote:

>
> But Chas, it's OK, one day you will join me and my many fellows, we will welcome you and you will use your experience as an organisational man and your mistakes in following the person, to help and guide others correctly and that's as it should be. That my friend is why both the Devadatta and Never Disparaging chapters exist. That is why the Lotus Sutra is superior to the Flower Garland and all other Sutras, the promise ff Buddhahood for all and the means to achieve it as one is.
>

You can't even proceed a step without exposing another lie: "one day you will join me and my many fellows"

You said you weren't forming a Sangha and right after that invite me to join it, and forecast my future possession by your demon. You simply cannot help yourself. That demon that's possessed you must feed on the Law and votaries, and you are hunting.

-Chas.

[iainx...@gmail.com]

Lool Chas, love it! You really are an organisational man!!! You can't help but think in teems of bounded temporal entities created by all to fallible deluded worldlings.

I'm not formimg a Sangha, no need and I've already refuted you using Nichiren Gosho in Nichiren's hand, no such thing exists in the latter day.

Me an my fellows refers to the Emergence form the Earth Chapter, the passage I asked you to explain how SGI's corporate structure could accomodate.

Even within my post it's clear that I'm not referning to a temporal entity of the type you describe and you know this because I have very recently refuted your assertion that such an entity is needed. Remember Josh and my exapmple of a self organising distributed network in action?

Also, I think you nerd to get your eyes checked, nowhere in my post did I ask you to join us, I simply stated that you would.

You do realise that you are playing out perfectly the Never Disparaging chapter don't you? Although I am not bodhisattva Never Disparaging, you are casting me in that role by your ill tempered and falsely accusatory response and casting yourself in the role of overbearingly arrogant.

You have no choice but to join us Chas, that is the Sutra and you have formed a relationship with it, so it is your destiny. I am nobody, I don't need to be amd there are many like me, numberless beyond even the Buddha's powers to calculate. That's in the Sutra too.

I especially like your plagarism of Katie's statement about Law devourers, are you incapable of amy original thought?

It doesn't seem like you're having a very good day, you come across as being really angry and you don't soind at all happy.

Chill, it's all OK, we all get there in the end. Eventually you'll tun out of energy trying to wrestle your shadow and fight your own demons. "Those who fall down push themselves up by thier own efforts." Miao Lo's statement punctures your mentor-disciple promo teaching. All one needs is the Sutra and that comes forth of it's own accord. The wisdom that comes of itself. Thatcs in the Sutra too. What don't you understand?

Do at least try to gave a good day :)

[iainx...@gmail.com]

"Iain's Sangha: Attempted here and failed so far, and attempted in starting a new newsgroup for your Sangha and failing that as well, and this has been pointed out to you and others have noticed and spoken about it in posts, of which you are already aware of and live in denial of in spite of it having been pointed out abundantly."

Evidence Chas, reference the posts.

Now again the refutation of your sangha idea and evidence that SGI has in fact set up it's own sangha despite Nichiren stating no such thing exists. And that it is using that to attack it's percieved enemies.

This Chas is Gosho based and refernced buddy, that's the quality I expect from you if readers are to take you seriously.

I repost this Gosho, which I have already used to refute Chas's various claims about "disrupting the sangha" (and falling into the Avici hell for doing so) or my supposed setting up of a sangha.

I have asserted that according to Nichiren, thr first offense is impossible, since a sangha does not exist in the latter age. Therefore the second claim must also fail, why would I attempt to set up something that would be illigitemate in this age according to Nichiren? If I did so, I would be in a weak position and having argued the point using this Gosho, I would rightly be open to challenge!

To be fair, Chas is taking the line that he probably learned from Soka Spirit articles of the following type, which claimed Nichiren Shoshu had committed slander of the Law by excommunicating Mr Ikeda in 1991. Soka Spirit was one of the SGI responses to NST's act. The problem is they are not supported by Gosho as we shall see.

For example Soka Spirit claims:

"Disrupting the unity of believers: In 1991, the priesthood demanded that the Soka Gakkai be disbanded and then officially excommunicated it. Both before and since the excommunication, the priesthood has taken various measures to obstruct the SGI’s efforts, such as refusing to issue the Gohonzon to SGI members and denying their free access to the Dai-Gohonzon. An attempt to destroy a gathering of believers dedicated to the spread of the Buddha’s teaching is the most serious of the five cardinal sins in Buddhism."

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://sokaspirit.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/2_journey_journey_of.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwil2Y73j4XOAhXkBsAKHZ31BsI4HhAWCCswBw&usg=AFQjCNGIXlkhwGWDFHM2GlT4J_ndPvKB4g&sig2=Ln6m0Tpipz-aw0Q7hcN5oA

I regret now not having paid more attention to this Soka Spirit propoganda otherwise I would probably have left SGI earlier.

Down to business, before Chas gets carried away with his new word, "sangha", lets just pause to reflect on whether it's use by Chas and his SGI masters in this way, is correct in terms of Nichiren's teaching. And also, consider the use by WND Translators and Gosho committee of the term "Buddhist Order", which is used as an alternative for sangha

In this latter Gosho, "What It Means to Slander the Law"

In the SGI WND version of the Gosho the term sangha is translated as "Buddhist Order". In the NOPPA translation of the Gosho, this term is also used and later in that passage, "samgha" (sangha) is used as an alternative term for Buddhist Order.

So this is what Nichiren tells us about sangha (buddhist order)...


http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-2/Content/188#para-84


"As to the causes that condemn one to this hell, it may be said that those who commit any of the five cardinal sins will fall into this hell. The five cardinal sins are killing one’s father, killing one’s mother, killing an arhat, causing a Buddha to shed blood, and causing disharmony among the members of the Buddhist Order. In our present age, however, since there is no Buddha now living, it is impossible to cause a Buddha to shed blood. Likewise, since there is no Buddhist Order, it is impossible to cause disharmony among its members."


Please note:


"Likewise, since there is no Buddhist Order, it is impossible to cause disharmony among its members."

Nichiren goes on to say...

(Ibid)

"Thus the only offenses possible are those of killing one’s father or killing one’s mother. And since the laws of the sovereign are so strict in their prohibition of the killing of a parent, it is rare to find anyone who commits such an offense. Hence in our present age, one would expect that very few people would fall into the Avīchi hell."

"However, there are offenses that are similar in gravity to the five cardinal sins. There are many persons who burn the wooden or painted images of Buddhas or Buddhist halls and pagodas, who appropriate the lands donated to such Buddhist images, who hack down or burn the stupas, or who kill wise men. Such persons will fall into the sixteen separate places that are attached to the Avīchi hell. Thus we may be certain that many of those living in the world today will fall into these sixteen separate places, and those who slander the Law will also fall into this hell."

Nichiren is clear. disrupting the Buddhist Order is not possible in this age since none exists.


The point of this Gosho, is to focus on the offeses that will cause one to fall into Avinci Hell, that of slandering the True Law or Dhama, in this age. It's all about faith.

So disrupting the mind of faith, leading believers down an erroneous path away from Gohonzon and a belief in the power of faith in the Daimoku alone as the only way to attain buddhahood, that is a grave offense. Disrupting the Buddhist Order is not. Nichiren explicitly states it is impossible to commit this offense in this age.

Chas has asserted, referring to SGI leaders, the SGI's focus on its leaders and the importance of following them that "leaders hold the Sangha together".

So Chas openly admits that SGI has created a sangha, where none should exist. Now one can see why Chas points the accusatory finger at others, it diverts from the fact that SGI itself has done the thing it accuses others of!

It also diverts attention to wjat SGI members should be focussing on to avoid falling into hell as karmic retribution, the sin of slandering the Law.

This by the way is why I am "picky" on the correctness of faith and also why I urge people to be careful not placing conditions on the Law.

No Chas, it is not OK to teach people that there is a transmission through the "mystic bond of mentor-disciple" and that if one does "follow the way of mentor-disciple one cannot attain buddhahood."

Entry is through faith alone and attainment of buddhahood is achived through embracing and sustaining faith in the daimoku, well at least according to Nichiren.

To teach otherwise as the SGI and it's leaders now do, is to teach that embracing and sustaining faith alone is insufficient and that is a direct slander to the True Law and inconsistent with Nichiren's teaching. It happens to be important.

That is what your "Mentor" is teaching Chas. One of the supposed "three eternal mentors for kosen rufu" is teaching that faith in the daimoku alone is insufficient to attain buddhahood. That is the faith he and the SGI is now spreading around the globe.

Nichien makes this explicit later in the same Gosho:

(Ibid)

"Question: I understand now that the sin of slandering the Law is even graver than the five cardinal sins. But just what does it mean to slander the Law?"

Answer: The Great Teacher T’ien-t’ai Chih-che in his commentary on the Brahmā Net Sutra says, “‘To slander’ means to turn against.” Thus one who turns against the Law is slandering the Law. Vasubandhu in his Treatise on the Buddha Nature says, “To hate a thing is to turn against it.” The meaning of this passage is that one who hates the Law and causes others to reject it is slandering the Law."

Do you not hate the Law with you words and actions when you teach that embracing and sustaining faith alone is insufficient to inherit the Law?

Do you not hate the Law, when you falsely assert that the only way to attain buddhahood is by following the way of mentor-disciple?

Do you not hate the Law, when you promote an unclear teaching based on unclear and ill defined "mentor" labelling, which you know is unnecessary and is confusing (as a means to further your organisation and promote your brand), and which results in people turning thier backs on the very clear and very simple principle that entry is through faith alone and that this is all they is needed to attain buddhahood?

If I'm to fall into Avinci Hell, it won't be because I didn't follow your "Mentor" Chas, or follow current SGI teaching, it will be solely because I didn't have enough faith in the Law or was unable to sustain that faith.

I have repeatedly drawn attention to the priority that Nichiren set. 1) Sutra, 2) latter commentators.

Nichiren tells us that this order should always be used. He also tells us that it is unacceptable to use latter commentary when the meaning of the Sutra is clear and that if there is a conflict between commentary and Sutra, the commentary should be rejected and the Sutra accepted.

Applying this principle to Nichiren's own work, is it acceptable to publish lectures amd guidance when Nichiren's meaning is clear?

For sure, bringing in relevant context, for example where the writing sat in the timeline and relationship to other related Gosho or main themes, that is helpful, so long as it's aim is to elucidate understanding, is necessary and is accurate .

Inventing an "SGI promo teaching" of "mentor-disciple" and reinterpreting the Gosho and redefining the Daimoku in terms of it to support the new SGI promo "sutra" you have invented is not.

Make no mistake, SGI leaders, its study department and its "Mentor" concept is all tertiary commentary on Nichiren's Gosho and the Sutra.

The priority is clear, Sutra, Nichiren, anyone else.

As far as these accord with Nichiren's teaching and to the extent they lead to correct faith and do not block the path to correct faith, they are to be judged good/ bad, erroneous/accurate.

What cannot happen is that SGI's corpprate promo teachings are used to refute the True Law. Immendiately this occurs one has slandered the True Law.

As Nichiren puts it...

Ibid

"If we consider this fact, then we can see that, although one may simply be following the teachings of the sutra that one believes in, if one attempts to use that sutra to refute a sutra that is superior to it, then one will be slandering the Law. And if this is the case, then those persons who put their faith in provisional Mahayana sutras such as the Meditation Sutra and the Flower Garland Sutra, though they may carry out the practices prescribed in the text of the sutra, if they fail to set aside such sutras and put their faith in the sutras that are superior to them, or if they dare to assert that their own sutras are superior, then they will in effect be slandering the Law. Thus, for example, though one may understand the teachings as they are taught in the Meditation and the other sutras, if a sutra appears that refutes those teachings and yet one fails to accept that sutra, then one is slandering theLaw. The principle here is the same as in the case of the Hinayana sutras discussed above."

Does SGI dare to assert that their own promo sutras are superior to the Lotus Sutra or Nichiren's teaching?

If they do, then they will be slandering the Law.

Likewise, if the SGI promo teachings assert that attainment of buddhahood is only possible via the bond of mentor disciple, by following the person rather than the Law it is slandering the Law and so are all those who embrace and practice that teaching.

By accepting, promoting and defending a teaching and fallacious intellectual framework, that states
"if one forgets the way of mentor-disciple one cannot attain buddhahood" Chas and SGIkeda corporation dares to suggest that faith in the Daimoku alone is insufficient for the attainment of Buddhahood.

It wasn't always this way, at least in my experience, so how can it be remedied?

SGI published the words, it alone is responsible for its "sutra" and how it teaches.

It can understand the problem, understand the confusion it is creating by mislabelling and it can direct it's members back to Gosho and set a clear and consistent priority between it's guidance and Gosho, as it once did, ensuring it's members always understand the latter is superior and encouraging them to reject and challenge erroneous guidance.

It can change its tack, focussing less on its leaders and the supposed glories and achivements if Daisaku Ikeda and discouraging tendencies towards idealisation and idolisation of this man.

This stance, by the way, is entirely consistent with Mr Ikeda's teaching on this matter. He argues repeatedly that the tendency to idolise, idealise and mythologise spiritual leaders is chatacteristic if religions and tgat the resylts if doing this are that people end up existing to serve the religion rather than the religion existing to serve the people.

Given Daisaku Ikeda's utterances in this matter, it should be quite a simple matter for the SGI to make this change and actively work against it's members developing this unhealthy and counter productive ideation of Daisaku Ikeda.

Why won't it do this? Because as Chss has pointed out Mr Ikeda is no longer running things, so even if his heart was pure (which it may well have been), he's no longer a player. Faceless paid SGI puppet masters pull the strings of the membership publishing almost anything they want in Mr Ikeda's name. Poor fellow. Even if he did't condemn himself to suffer, his corrupt disciples, Chas included, surely will.

One doesn't want corruption in such an organisation, the SGI's power and wealth make it a very attractive target for people who have a veneer deep interest in promoting correct understanding of Nichiren's Buddhism, little care for its members and every care for using the organisation for their own selfish gain. These people will fight and typically they will do so using guile. The defence against such tactics? Clarity, openess, transparency, challenge and accountability.

The question is has the SGI for all it's rhetoric about religion in the 21st Century and Buddhist Humanism built an organisation that reflects those values in its structure, culture, care for past members, gratitude and focus on the many who built it, past and present, conduct and behaviour towards those it disagrees with and openess to outside scrutiny?

I leave others to consider how much say they had in the decision to change the prayers. How much say they have in the building of yet another Culture Centre for an organisation that has had a drop of 40% in it's global membership, from 20 million to 12 million since 1988 amd at a time when the world, it's leaders and corporations should be doing everything possible to reduce carbon emissions, pollution and environmental impact in an effort to mitigate the risks to future generations. Is investing money and irganisational focus the best way to do this? Has that debate even been started by the SGIkeda leaders?

In Rissho Ankoku Ron, Nichiren argued that embracing erroneous teachings and slandering the True Law to internal strife and external attack. The calamaties that result from the three poisons of Greed, Anger and Stupidity naturally play out in a nation so wrongly based. And so with organisarions that are likewise wringly based or that have allowed themselves to become so. SGI is one such, can it find a way back? Part of me hopes so but the other part says that it has gone too far down the wrong road.

For the life of me I don't understand how the likes of Mr Harada, Mr Wada, Mr Kaneda were able to turn the likes of SGI UK leaders, who were firm and crystal clear about The Buddhism of Nichiren Daishonin and who had created such a glorious, effective organisation, into gushing, incoherant Ikeda Promoters willing to teach something other than faith in the Daimoku as the sole route to Buddhahood.

If it wasn't buddhism, it could easily be the plot line from Star Wars as members are turned from the light side to the dark, through trickery and crucially by stoking their anger in a perceived and widely promoted external enemy.

The result is the same, authoritanarianism, tight central control, propoganda and indoctination of its faithful "storm troopers" and the loss of their individuality for the "greater good" and the glory of their "supreme leader"...lool come back Luke, we need you ;)

Be well :)

[Chas.]

My, how you bloviate instead of responding to a simple point. You said you never attempted to start a Sangha and asked me to provide proof of your lying and making a Sangha and I did both, here's the damning quote, "one day you will join me and my many fellows".

Ok, you prevaricated and were starting a sect, how's that?

-Chas.

[iainx...@gmail.com]

Thanks Chas, you know full well that the pojnt was answerwed whwn you first statred making the accusation. Foolishly, you are using a line of attack that is clearly at odds with Gosho. So you, Soka Spirit and SGI rely on thr charge of disrupting unity yet Nichiren states this is impossible in this age.

Thabks for concededing the point.

Be well :)

[Katie Higgins]

There is no need for a "sect"- those who have the same mind as Nichiren can transcend differences and unite to propagate the Law- each in their own locale, environment. With this technology , we never have to meet face to face, much less establish temples , community centers , culture centers or found institutions , schools--nor do we need marketing experts or fundraising professionals or tax exempt status!

We who have the same mind as Nichiren do not need priests , leaders , or Mentors who have attained wealth and worldly status .

Nichiren and his followers are the Treasure of the Order for this latter age. Those who have selflessly devoted their abilities to procuring authentic Gosho, Nichiren Gohonzons, and correct translations of Nichiren's writings are most praise worthy.

SGIkeda represents the foremost amongst all heretical sects in committing grave slander of the Law.

Namu-Myoho- Renge-Kyo,
~Katie

[iainx...@gmail.com]

"With this technology , we never have to meet face to face, much less establish temples , community centers , culture centers or found institutions , schools--nor do we need marketing experts or fundraising professionals or tax exempt status"

That's so true Katie! Law + Net = self organising distributed network with a flat and structure, perfect combination, perfect vehicle for propogation and protection of the Law.

Thank you Tim Berners Lee father of the world wide web and the godfathers of the internet it runs on, Leonard Kleinrock, Paul Baran, Donald Davies, Lawrence Roberts, Robert Kahn, Vint Cerf and Louis Pouzin.

Be well :)

[Katie Higgins]

[Katie Higgins]

On Friday, July 22, 2016 at 4:25:11 PM UTC-4, iainx...@gmail.com wrote:

Let's also remember that Tim Berners Lee did not endeavor to profit from his *invention*-- I am grateful that the source of the connection that is making it possible to propagate the Law was a selfless offering to humanity.

~Katie