... "Now, monks, THE BUDDHA GREAT UNIVERSAL WISDOM EXCELLENCE
... PASSED TEN SMALL KALPAS BEFORE THE LAW OF THE BUDDHAS
... FINALLY APPEARED BEFORE HIM AND HE ATTAINED SUPREME
... PERFECT ENLIGHTENMENT. Before this buddha left the

... householder's life, he had sixteen sons, the first of whom
... was named Wisdom Accumulated. These sons each had various
... kinds of rare objects and toys of one kind or another, but
... when they heard that their father had attained supreme
... perfect enlightenment, they all threw aside their rare
... objects and went to where the buddha was. Their mothers,

... weeping, followed after them.
...

... "Their grandfather, who was a wheel-turning sage king,
... along with a hundred chief ministers, as well as a
... hundred, thousand, ten thousand, million of his subjects,
... all together surrounded the sons and followed them to the
... place of enlightenment, all wishing to draw close to the
... thus come one Great Universal Wisdom Excellence, to offer
... alms, pay honor, venerate, and praise him. When they
... arrived, they bowed before his feet, touching their heads

... to the ground.

Since the "grandfather" was the father of the Buddha Great Universal Wisdom Excellence, who was the father of the 16th son who later became Shakyamuni Buddha, and because the Buddha Great Universal Wisdom Excellence attained enlightenment prior to Shakyamuni, this is evidence from the one and only earliest timeline from the Lotus Sutra, that Shakyamuni Buddha was NOT the name of the Buddha of the original state.

In fact, anyone attaining enlightenment on any timeline for the first time cannot be named as the Buddha of the original state, who is enlightened from beginningless time, which is off the end of every timeline and not actually part of any history.

The "grandfather" is anonymous in the Lotus Sutra. The "grandfather" has no time associated with his enlightenment, or assignment of any progenitor and Nichiren Daishonin assigns him as primogenitor in that passage from the Record of the Orally Transmitted Teachings, as the first: the "Buddha of the original state."

Aside from that, who knows, I don't. As far as I can tell, the eternal Buddha has no other person identified as such in the Lotus Sutra. Shakyamuni attained enlightenment after his father Great Universal Wisdom Excellence and unnamed grandfather with no date for his attainment of the enlightenment.

At any rate, who was first hardly matters, unless you want to worship a statue or image of the first enlightened one. I certainly don't want to worship or pray to any statues of anyone.

I am satisfied that the Buddha leading the army of the Bodhisattvas of the Earth is Nichiren Daishonin, also known as Jogyo Superior Practices. He is the mentor whose Gosho I have made my mentor, because our general, Ikeda Sensei asked me too. I practice as Nichiren Daishonin says and only that way. I worship no person and images of any person.

Continuing, another challenge from a follower of the Nichiren Shu icchantikas/issendai:

||| You, Chas, claim to be practicing Nichiren's teachings- do
||| you not? Then please explain why you cannot believe
||| thousands of passages written in Nichiren's own hand, such
||| as:
|||
||| "Now, when the Eternal Buddha has revealed in the essential
||| section of the Lotus Sutra, this world of endurance
||| (Saha-world) became the Eternal Pure Land, indestructible
||| even by the three calamities of conflagration, flooding,
||| and strong winds, which are said to destroy the world. It
||| transcends the four periods of cosmic change: the kalpa of
||| construction, continuance, destruction and emptiness.
||| Sakaymuni Buddha, the Lord-preacher of this pure and, has
||| never died in the past, nor will He be born in the future.
||| He exists forever throughout the past present and future.
||| All those who receive His GUIDANCE are one with the Eternal
||| Buddha." - Nichiren, "The True Object of Worship".
|||
||| Now, you are interpreting the Lotus Sutra- in an effort to
||| support your SGIkeda's claim that Nichiren, not Shakyamuni
||| is the True, Original Buddha!! By doing this you are also
||| dismissing Nichiren's own statements referencing his
||| identity as the Buddha's envoy, the only one who can
||| understand the "entity of the Lotus"--So, YOU, Chas claim
||| to be --what? the envoy of the Buddha you have demoted?? Or
||| are you just a parrot for SGIkeda's lies??
|||
||| To summarize, I practice Nichiren's Lotus Sutra Buddhism. I
||| regard Nichiren as the ONE teacher for this latter age. I
||| believe the words Nichiren has used to describe himself,
||| Shakyamuni Buddha and the Lotus Sutra--Since, you, Chas do
||| not produce evidence for your assertions from Nichiren's
||| own hand, you are not qualified to call yourself a follower
||| of Nichiren-- in fact, you have clearly shown yourself to
||| be a follower of Ikeda, whose errors have been exposed here
||| and elsewhere , whilst your Top leaders refuse to engage in
||| public debate to settle the matters you continue to parrot
||| here!!

This is yet another bad translation of the Gosho, by corrupted statue-worshiping priests of Nichiren Shu. Note the absence of the term "Eternal Buddha" in the correct translation below, that phrase having been doctored by Nichiren Shu slandering priests in their corrupted translation.

Shakyamuni was of course manifesting Myoho-Renge, his true self and at the highest condition of human existence when he was preaching the Juryo chapter.

But his name was Shakyamuni, not Myoho-Renge, which is "the actual name of the entity" according to Nichiren Daishonin.

From "The Object of Devotion for Observing the Mind Established in the Fifth Five-Hundred-Year Period after the Thus Come One's Passing -Nichiren, the shramana of Japan", WND I, p. 366 ... once again, noting the total absence of calling Shakyamuni the "eternal Buddha":
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/39#para-70

... First, at his place of enlightenment, Shakyamuni Buddha
... [preached the Flower Garland Sutra in which he] revealed
... the Lotus Treasury World. In the following fifty years,
... until he entered nirvana in the grove of sal trees,
... Shakyamuni preached about the lands of the various Buddhas,
... such as the Lotus Treasury World and the Land of Secret
... Solemnity [in the Secret Solemnity Sutra], revealed the
... three kinds of lands when he three times purified countless
... lands [in the theoretical teaching of the Lotus Sutra], and
... revealed the four kinds of lands according to the four
... different views [in the Nirvana Sutra]. These lands—the
... Land of Transition, the Land of Actual Reward, and the Land
... of Tranquil Light; the Land of Peace and Sustenance, the
... Pure Emerald World, the Land of Secret Solemnity, and the
... lands of all the other Buddhas—are transient lands that
... change in the course of the kalpas of formation,
... [continuance, decline, and disintegration]. The Buddhas of
... these lands had been magically conjured by Shakyamuni
... Buddha, and when the lord of teachings entered nirvana, all
... these Buddhas likewise entered extinction. In the same way,
... their lands also vanished.
...
... The sahā world Shakyamuni Buddha revealed in the "Life
... Span" chapter is the eternal pure land, impervious to the
... three calamities and to the cycle of the four kalpas. The
... Buddha neither has entered into extinction in the past nor
... will be born in the future. And the same is true of his
... disciples. This means that their lives are perfectly
... endowed with the three thousand worlds, that is, with the
... three realms of existence. The Buddha did not reveal this
... truth in the theoretical teaching, or the first fourteen
... chapters, of the Lotus Sutra because the time was not right
... and the people's capacity was not yet developed.
...
... Shakyamuni Buddha did not transmit the five characters of
... Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, the heart of the essential teaching of
... the Lotus Sutra, even to the bodhisattvas Manjushrī and
... Medicine King, let alone to any lesser disciples. He
... summoned from beneath the earth the great bodhisattvas as
... numerous as the dust particles of a thousand worlds and, as
... he preached the eight chapters, transferred it solely to
... them.

Finally, a piece of logic related to time itself, and that logic is irrefutable.

Beginningless time is before any finite point in the past on the timeline, such as when Shakyamuni attained enlightenment. From the Lotus Sutra, chapter 16, starting with the critical phrase "Ga hon gyo bosatsu do":
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/lsoc/Content/16#para-14

... originally I practiced the bodhisattva way,
... and the life span that I acquired then has
... yet to come to an end but will last twice
... the number of years that have already passed.

A finite time in the past, which is half the time of a future point, can not possibly be the locus known as "beginningless time", which is off the timeline. The eternal Buddha's enlightened life crosses before, during and after every point on the timeline, which is why the adjective "eternal" is applied.

Shakyamuni, in his complete honesty, declared that he attained enlightenment under another Buddha and implicitly therefore that Shakyamuni is not the name of the eternal Buddha, as the Nichiren Shu and it's plausibly deniable legion of SGI attackers erroneously believe. You cannot deny what the Lotus Sutra says, Shakyamuni is not the name of the eternal Buddha, anymore than anyone's impermanent name is. That name is Myoho-Renge.

-Chas.

Katie Higgins

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Oct 12, 2017, 5:32:27 PM10/12/17

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Oct 9

“Fabulous life condition”? Not sure how subjective euphoria can be attributed to a correct faith and practice if the Lotus Sutra— or rather , it certainly wasn’t mentioned by the Buddha.

Much of what passes for “ life condition elevation “ amongst Gakkai zealots is circumstantial- in other words you don’t find that sparkle in the context of hardship and intense adversity-
Most of these manic looking leaders plummet into hell the moment they are challenged with the true teachings !!

Here on arbn Chas goes ballistic with what can only be called insane ramblings at the mere mention of the Eternal Buddha Shakyamuni whom Nichiren refers to as the one Buddha to whom we owe the greatest debt of gratitude .

High life condition v. High on the crack pipe of “ we are All Buddhas “??

The litmus test is intro to the true teachings ‼️

Chas going bazocko AGAIN-- trying to derail another topic that hits too close to home!!
~ Katie

Chas.

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Oct 13, 2017, 1:26:30 PM10/13/17

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Katie Higgins and her unreconstructed lying are defeated by the Lotus Sutra itself +

On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 10:11:42 AM UTC-7, Katie Higgins wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 11, 2017 at 11:44:10 PM UTC-4, Chas. wrote:
> > Nevertheless, Nichiren Daishonin DID NOT confer godhood upon Shakyamuni, nor did he request that Yasaburō worship statues of Shakyamuni AS IF he was God Almighty, creator of heaven and earth.
> >
> > He revered Shakyamuni deeply, as we all know, but we all also know he beleived that the Gohonzon was "the supreme object of worship in all Jambudvipa."
> >
> > -Chas.
>

[snip]

>
> 2)>>"’”1 This sutra passage means that this country of Japan is the domain of Shakyamuni Buddha. In addition to the fact that all the gods, such as the Sun Goddess, Great Bodhisattva Hachiman, and Emperor Jimmu, and all the people, from the ruler of the nation on down, dwell within his realm, he is the Buddha to whom we living beings are greatly indebted for three reasons. First, he is our sovereign; second, he is our teacher; and third, he is our father. Among all the Buddhas of the ten directions, only Shakyamuni Buddha is endowed with these three virtues<<"-
>
> ONLY Shakyamuni is endowed with the three virtues--HE, Shakyamuni is the BUDDHA to whom we living beings are greatly indebted..
>

[snip]

As usual, in your lying and intellectually dishonest way, you misquote Nichiren Daishonin by taking his words out of context. I have upper-cased the part you dropped, which undermines your point completely.

Here is the full quote from the "Reply to Yasaburō" Gosho, WND I, p. 827:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/wnd-1/Content/100#para-0

... [I suggest you begin the religious debate with these
... words:] “Although I am an ignorant layman, among the
... teachings I have heard, I was especially impressed by the
... passage in the second volume of the Lotus Sutra that reads,
... ‘Now this threefold world [is all my domain... ]’” This
... sutra passage means that this country of Japan is the
... domain of Shakyamuni Buddha. In addition to the fact that
... all the gods, such as the Sun Goddess, Great Bodhisattva
... Hachiman, and Emperor Jimmu, and all the people, from the
... ruler of the nation on down, dwell within his realm, he is
... the Buddha to whom we living beings are greatly indebted
... for three reasons. First, he is our sovereign; second, he
... is our teacher; and third, he is our father. Among all the
... Buddhas of the ten directions, only Shakyamuni Buddha is
... endowed with these three virtues. THEREFORE, EVEN IF ALL
... THE PEOPLE OF THE COUNTRY OF JAPAN WERE TO SERVE SHAKYAMUNI
... BUDDHA WHOLEHEARTEDLY JUST AS THEY NOW DO AMIDA BUDDHA, IF
... THEY WERE TO PLACE HIM SIDE BY SIDE WITH ANOTHER BUDDHA AND
... TREAT HIM IN THE SAME MANNER, THAT WOULD STILL BE A GRAVE
... ERROR. For example, though someone were our own ruler and
... wise besides, if we were to shift our allegiance to the
... ruler of another country—for instance, if, while dwelling
... in Japan, we were to pay honor to the king of China or
... Koryŏ and slight the sovereign of Japan—could we be called
... persons who honor the great sovereign of this country

Who Nichiren Daishonin is clearly characterizing as "another Buddha" are other Buddhas of other incredibly slanderous teachings:

1. Amida Buddha of the Western Realm / Nembutsu / Hōnen (1133-1212) and his 1198 teaching "The Nembutsu Chosen above All"

2. Mahavairochana / True Word Shingon Esoteric School / Shan-wu-wei (637-735) and Kōbō (774-835) and their writings about the teachings of the Diamond Realm and Womb Realm mandalas.

3. Medicine Master Buddha (Yakushi-nyorai) of the Pure Emerald World in the East / Reiki / Yakushi-kyo translated in 650 by Hsüan-tsang

4. Shakyamuni of the Flower Garland Sutra / Flower Garland School / Fa-tsang (643–712) and his doctrine raising the Flower Garland school over those of all other schools, including the Lotus Sutra school.

5. The Void / countless Zen schools / many different Zen haters of the Lotus Sutra and Buddhism.

etc.

This is who Nichiren Daishonin was up against and clearly what he intended to differentiate, not any other person who would attain Buddhahood as Shakyamuni did and as he preached in the Lotus Sutra that his 15 brothers, father and grandfather did before him, and as he predicted that his followers and even Devadatta would after him.

How can you possibly lie like this when the Lotus Sutra so clearly exposes your lies? The details are here:
___________________________________________________________

The Lotus Sutra defeats Mark Rogow and Katie Higgins deification: the Buddha had 15 brothers just like him +

In response to Mark Rogow's weak and corrupted arguments:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren/1fUX4H4ZIaw/hwfPlTmaBwAJ

Here's some Lotus Sutra for you to consider, Mark Rogow, in your utter defeat.

You say that Shakyamuni alone is the Tathagata, the only Thus Come One, and everyone else should prostrate themselves and kiss the feet of his statues as if he were God Almighty, creator of heaven and earth, and no one else is a Buddha. However, this is utterly incorrect.

When Shakyamuni preaches the Lotus Sutra, he is speaking for the soul of Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo that exists in all living beings, but he is not the only one that preaches thus. In the Lotus Sutra he predicts future Buddhas from his followers and even from Devadatta. They will all become Thus Come Ones and that means they will all preach the Lotus Sutra as he did.

In the remote past there were also others who preached thus, Shakyamuni's grandfather, his father the buddha Great Universal Wisdom Excellence and 15 brothers:

The Parable of the Phantom City, LS-7, pp 156-157:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/lsoc/Content/7#para-35

... "Now, monks, the buddha Great Universal Wisdom Excellence

... passed ten small kalpas before the Law of the buddhas

... finally appeared before him and he attained supreme

... perfect enlightenment. Before this buddha left the

... householder's life, he had sixteen sons, the first of whom
... was named Wisdom Accumulated. These sons each had various
... kinds of rare objects and toys of one kind or another, but
... when they heard that their father had attained supreme
... perfect enlightenment, they all threw aside their rare
... objects and went to where the buddha was. Their mothers,
... weeping, followed after them.
...
... "Their grandfather, who was a wheel-turning sage king,
... along with a hundred chief ministers, as well as a
... hundred, thousand, ten thousand, million of his subjects,
... all together surrounded the sons and followed them to the
... place of enlightenment, all wishing to draw close to the
... thus come one Great Universal Wisdom Excellence, to offer
... alms, pay honor, venerate, and praise him. When they
... arrived, they bowed before his feet, touching their heads
... to the ground.

He and his fifteen brothers all preached in different Buddha lands:

From the Lotus Sutra, Chapter 7, "Parable of the Phantom City", pp.172-173:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/lsoc/Content/7#para-282

___________________________________________________________

On Thursday, October 12, 2017 at 2:20:33 PM UTC-7, Katie Higgins wrote:
> The point, Chas is for you to address Nichiren's OWN words.
>
> Can't you do that?
>
> ~Katie

I just did, above:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren/Wo7_aMfC7oE/VgoXEoHDAgAJ

The list of five "other Buddhas" is what he is addressing in that text. Other teachings accompanied by other teachers. He didn't over-complicate his argument by describing them as "other provisional Buddhas in the ten directions", that's all. He is clearly addressing Amida, Medicine Master Buddha, Mahavairochana, Flower Garland Sutra Buddha, etc., all of which are replacements for Shakyamuni of the Lotus Sutra, the Lord of Teachings.

And none of the above are "the actual name of the entity" that was, is and will always be "Myoho-Renge."

Your lying undermines your arguments: when you say I have replaced the Shakyamuni Buddha of the Lotus Sutra by Nichiren Daishonin, I have not. Neither one is "the actual name of the entity", that was, is and will always be "Myoho-Renge."

Can you read? I'm beginning to doubt it.

-Chas.

Katie Higgins

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Oct 14, 2017, 4:50:35 AM10/14/17

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You seem obsessed with concepts like, “godhood” and “god almighty”— which of course have no place in Buddhism and neither does your “primordial-unproduced entity”- which is striking similar to a “god almighty “-/
The irony of Chas’ railing against his own non/Buddhist beliefs is stunning 😄

~ Katie

Chas.

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Oct 14, 2017, 12:41:25 PM10/14/17

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I'm not the one supporting idolatry of Shakyamuni as God Almighty, elevating him above the rest of humanity as a Christ-like figure. That's your gig.

I'm saying what he says in the Lotus Sutra, that there is no discernible difference between Shakyamuni Buddha and anyone saying Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo. That the Lotus Sutra can only be shared between Buddhas.

What Nichiren Daishonin (whom you kicked to the curb as Buddha of the Latter Day of the Law) says has been explained above:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren/Q-0eZk5t90k/Je45jJcGAwAJ

You seem to be invincibly and impenetrably ignorant on the salient points.

-Chas.

-Chas.

Katie Higgins

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Oct 14, 2017, 9:54:43 PM10/14/17

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I follow Nichiren — there is no idol worship in his teachings — that and must of the bunk Chas spews here is all in Chas’ head -

Wrong headed , arrogant Chas cannot address thousands of passages of Nichiren’s clear descriptions of Shakyamuni, which have been the basis for my mind of faith for over 20 years !
I cannot fathom his vitriol aimed at discrediting Nichiren’s clear teachings on the Buddha , but I can appreciate the effects Chas displays of drinking the poison drugs of Shot/Gakkai heretical slander— he cannot read or accept the Buddha’s golden words-/ expresses non- Buddhist views and attacks votaries of the Lotus Sutra. He is destined to suffer retribution in the hell if incessant suffering . —according to Nichiren ...

~ Katie

Noel

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Oct 15, 2017, 3:24:57 AM10/15/17

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No difference between Shakyamuni Buddha and anyone saying Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo. In what context are you referring to?

Katie Higgins

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Oct 15, 2017, 4:59:37 AM10/15/17

to

There is no passage of Lotus Sutra or Gosho
I am aware of that supports your view of personal equality with the Buddha.
In “Establidhing the Four Bodhisattvas as the Object of Worship “;
Nichiren states: “ The doctrine concerning the theoretical and essential teaching is not my own [but was expounded by the Buddha]. Those who would distort it can only be possessed by devils, and will topple others as well as themselves into the great citadel of the hell of incessant suffering. How foolish they are !”

* Note : reverence and deference to the BUDDHA.

Nichiren continues : “ Teach others clearly as I have taught you these many years”

*Note: Re: The great body of Nichiren’s writings - including 18 years prior to inscribing Gohonzon

Nichiren’s clear “ guidance “:

“ Those who call themselves my disciples and practice the Lotus Sutra should all practice as I do.If they do so, Shakyamuni ,Taho and all the buddhas of the ten directions as well as the Ten Goddesses will protect them.”

Clearly Nichiren himself never said that he was “ equal to Shakyamuni Buddha”-/ Nichiren’s teachings and practice focus on reverence for Shakyamuni Buddha — what you are claiming is outrageous slander, Noel -
According to Nichiren!-“ If there is anyone among my followers who is weak in faith and goes against what I, Nichiren, say, he will meet the same fate as the Soga family “( “ The Supreme Leader of the World”)

As you ,Dave, Ricky and Chas continue to disregard Nichiren’s very clear teachings , I suggest you investigate the Soga family -/ since researching the origin of your heretical doctrine is beyond your capabilities!

~ Katie

Noel

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Oct 15, 2017, 6:02:25 AM10/15/17

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I'm not the same as Shakyamuni in that I don't manifest the Buddha nature consistently in the 10 worlds 24/7 at this stage but it's of the same quality

The duration of his Enlightenment that some believe last Kalpas is only a drop in the ocean compared to eternity so whats the big deal other than the person Shakyamuni like Nichiren manifested the 3 bodied Tathagata Thus come one Nam[u]Myoho Renge Kyo in their lives at a particular time and place

Nichirens enlightenment is embedded in the Gohonzon so the person Nichiren and the law are one. Nichiren's world of Buddhahood is alive and shining through the Gohonzon. Pity you don't see and feel it because you refuse to budge from that bygone Shakyamuni era your enslaved in

Katie Higgins

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Oct 15, 2017, 6:08:37 AM10/15/17

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Intellectualizing is foolish — especially when you have not achieved the first level of faith !!

~ Katie

Chas.

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Oct 22, 2017, 2:20:32 PM10/22/17

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On Saturday, October 21, 2017 at 9:33:02 AM UTC-7, Katie Higgins wrote:
> You discard the Eternal Buddha and are wrong headed about the daimoku -/
>
> Why do you persist in your claim to Nichiren’s teachings ?

There you go again, Katie Higgins, putting words in my mouth that never came out of them. I have discarded Shakyamuni's various PRACTICES, and have retained his highest TEACHINGS: the Lotus Sutra, accompanying sutras and the Nirvana Sutra, his last will and testament. It is Nichiren Daishonin's PRACTICE of Lotus Sutra Buddhism that I embrace, the nuanced position that you have neglected to embrace in your Hindu statue-worshiping of a deified Shakyamuni as God Almighty Jehovah or Jesus Christ: I haven't figured out which.

-Chas.

Noel

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unread,

Oct 26, 2017, 1:42:16 PM10/26/17

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Missing the prime point of Nichiren’s teachings “ keeping , upholding the Lotus Sutra. Nichiren made clear the daimoku is the core, the essence of the Lotus Sutra. If you cannot believe and accept that with faith you are not following Nichiren. Period . And therefore , you are clueless with regard to the Eternal Buddha - whose manifest body is but one aspect of the Buddha .

~ Katie

Chas.

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Oct 27, 2017, 1:02:09 PM10/27/17

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Katie Higgins and Mark Rogow Cannot Respond To This One Point +

On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 10:56:10 AM UTC-7, Katie Higgins wrote:
> The problem is : you don’t know Nichiren’s doctrine or your own !!
>
> You are debating in a dark cave - ranting like a brainwashed hobo.
>
> There is a great need to focus on doctrine - the great deficit in the knowledge base of SGI/ NST members is stunning .
>
> ~ Katie

What about Katie Higgins, who can't even read the Lotus Sutra that refutes her inferences regarding Nichiren Daishonin's statements about Shakyamuni in the Gosho? Nichiren Daishonin is utterly and completely incapable of holding an opinion that is so easily refuted by the Lotus Sutra!

Shakyamuni literally CANNOT BE the one and only eternal Buddha, simply because he was the last of 16 to attain Buddhahood. In the remote past there were also others who preached thus, Shakyamuni's grandfather, his father the buddha Great Universal Wisdom Excellence and 15 brothers:

Quoting "The Parable of the Phantom City", LS-7, pp 156-157:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/lsoc/Content/7#para-35

,.. "Now, monks, the buddha Great Universal Wisdom Excellence
,.. passed ten small kalpas before the Law of the buddhas
,.. finally appeared before him and he attained supreme
,.. perfect enlightenment. Before this buddha left the
,.. householder's life, he had sixteen sons, the first of whom
,.. was named Wisdom Accumulated. These sons each had various
,.. kinds of rare objects and toys of one kind or another, but
,.. when they heard that their father had attained supreme
,.. perfect enlightenment, they all threw aside their rare
,.. objects and went to where the buddha was. Their mothers,
,.. weeping, followed after them.
,..
,.. "Their grandfather, who was a wheel-turning sage king,
,.. along with a hundred chief ministers, as well as a
,.. hundred, thousand, ten thousand, million of his subjects,
,.. all together surrounded the sons and followed them to the
,.. place of enlightenment, all wishing to draw close to the
,.. thus come one Great Universal Wisdom Excellence, to offer
,.. alms, pay honor, venerate, and praise him. When they
,.. arrived, they bowed before his feet, touching their heads
,.. to the ground.

Also, Shakyamuni and his fifteen brothers all preached in different Buddha lands roughly in parallel:

Quoting the Lotus Sutra, Chapter 7, "Parable of the Phantom City", pp.172-173:
http://www.nichirenlibrary.org/en/lsoc/Content/7#para-282

,.. “You monks, I will now tell you this. These disciples of
,.. the buddha, these sixteen shramaneras, have now all
,.. attained supreme perfect enlightenment. In the lands in the
,.. ten directions they are at present preaching the Law, with
,.. immeasurable hundreds, thousands, ten thousands, millions
,.. of bodhisattvas and voice-hearers for their retinues. Two
,.. of these shramaneras have become buddhas in the eastern
,.. region. One is named Akshobhya and lives in the Land of
,.. Joy. The other is named Sumeru Peak. Two are buddhas in the
,.. southeastern region, one named Lion Voice, the other named
,.. Lion Appearance. Two are buddhas in the southern region,
,.. one named Void-Dwelling, the other named Ever Extinguished.
,.. Two are buddhas in the southwestern region, one named
,.. Emperor Appearance, the other named Brahma Appearance. Two
,.. are buddhas in the western region, one named Amitayus, the
,.. other named Saving All from Worldly Suffering. Two are
,.. buddhas in the northwestern region, one named Tamala Leaf
,.. Sandalwood Fragrance Transcendental Power, the other named
,.. Sumeru Appearance. Two are buddhas in the northern region,
,.. one named Cloud Freedom, the other named Cloud Freedom
,.. King. Of the buddhas of the northeastern region, one is
,.. named Destroying All Worldly Fears. THE SIXTEENTH IS I,
,.. SHAKYAMUNI BUDDHA, WHO IN THIS SAHA LAND HAVE ATTAINED
,.. SUPREME PERFECT ENLIGHTENMENT.

And later he points out all the others that will preach the Lotus Sutra just like he did, including his cousin, Devadatta, who tried to murder him and replace him.

If I could so easily refute Nichiren Daishonin using the Lotus Sutra, he could never have won a single debate, or even finished a lecture on the Lotus Sutra without being refuted by his disciples.

Your distorted view of Buddhism literally cannot have been Nichiren Daishonin's view! It is IMPOSSIBLE!

Neither you nor Mark Rogow have ever responded to this point of agony in your twisted Nichiren Shu doctrine. Your distorted view of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra is completely and idiotically wrong.

And using fallacious reasoning, like the ad hominem method of calling me a brainwashed hobo, simply is proof of your fallacy: since you cannot address my argument in any rational way, you irrationally challenge the person making the argument by name-calling. So transparently wrong!

-Chas.

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Oct 29, 2017, 4:43:36 AM10/29/17

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Nichiren explains the daimoku as a vow of devoting one’s life to the Lotus Sutra.

Nichiren described himself as the votary of the Lotus Sutra, later identifying as Bodhisattva Superior Practices , entrusted by Shakyamuni with propagating Myoho-renge-kyo.

Shakyamuni transferred the daimoku to Nichiren -or tather “ the teaching” that Nichiren propagated and practiced IS the Eternal Buddha’s teaching.

While there is no doubt that one will receive merit for merely chanting the daimoku , it is through studying Nichiren’s “bodily reading “ of the Lotus Sutra that one who aspires to attaining Buddhahood will seek to know and uphold the entire Lotus Sutra.

However, it is important to bear in mind that discarding the Lotus Sutra and diminishing the Eternal Buddha Shakyamuni is NEVER taught by Nichiren-/ and those who consider themselves “wise” or “superior “ , claiming authority when they cling to the easy practice while disparaging the difficult practice of upholding the Lotus Sutra are committing a grave sin .

~ Katie

Chas.

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Oct 29, 2017, 11:54:11 AM10/29/17

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Ricky Is The Laziest Babbling Commentator On Nichiren Buddhism, EVER! +

On Saturday, October 28, 2017 at 12:45:52 PM UTC-7, JazzIs TvRicky wrote:

[snip]

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Nov 8, 2017, 1:05:10 AM11/8/17

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My 4 points HAVE NOT BEEN ANSWERED BY YOU.

And I think they will not be, because there is no viable construct supporting your distortions of Nichiren Daishonin's Buddhism of the Lotus Sutra into a dehumanizing deification of Shakyamuni as God Almighty, Creator of Heaven and Earth like Jehovah or as a man-God like Jesus Christ. Statue-worshiping idolatry IS NOT Buddhism, it is an outrageous and insupportable attack on the Lotus Sutra itself.

1. Nichiren Daishonin's own golden words in the Gosho refute your idolatry of Shakyamuni directly ("Myoho-Renge" is "the actual name of the entity", not Shakyamuni or Nichiren Daishonin.)

2. The Lotus Sutra refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (In the past, 15 elder brothers, father and grandfather, and in the future his disciples and even Devadatta: all are great Buddhas just like Shakyamuni.) These are his golden words you deny.

3. The Gohonzon refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (the prominence of "Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo Nichiren" over all other entities, Nichiren being the common mortal who is chanting and raising the banner of Myoho.)

4. Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (we chant neither Nam-Shakyamuni-Butsu, nor Nam-Nichiren-Butsu.) This is what you chant every day, Katie Higgins, even though you deny the truth of it.

You really need to wise up and stop deflecting away from this central point of faith, Katie Higgins.

-Chas.

Katie Higgins

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Nov 8, 2017, 8:53:26 AM11/8/17

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Your four points are kanto Tendai - not Nichiren’s teachings ! You like the heretical teachings , but too proud to admit you don’t even care enough about Nichiren’s example in study to investigate the source of your own doctrines , much less study the true teachings on Nichiren’s own hand.

Believe what you want -/ just stop claiming any connection to Nichiren . It isn’t much of s stretch to imagine SGI converting to full on IKEDA-ism — it is actually just a matter of formality at this point.

~ Katie

Chas.

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Nov 8, 2017, 12:29:46 PM11/8/17

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On Wednesday, November 8, 2017 at 4:51:37 AM UTC-8, Katie Higgins wrote:
> Your four points have been refuted -
>
> First and foremost Shakyamuni Buddha is the Treasure of the Buddha in Nichiren’s doctrine - Nichiren makes this clear in his Major writings .
>
> Evidence has also been presented that shows consensus amongst Buddhist scholars even SGI’’s Hiroshi Kanno— Shakyamuni is the Eternal Buddha -
>
> When you are able to accept and believe this. True doctrine of Nichiren’s practiced of Shakyamuni’s Lotus Sutra , you will embark for the first time on the path of following Nichiren!
>
> Until then , Chas, you are a hobo - confusing snf corrupting what Nichiren himself wrote, taught and lived -/ in truth you would be ashamed of yourself if you hadn’t lost your mind to distorted faith —
>
> , Katie

Nah.

As far as Dr. Kanno and others in the SGI holding his views? We are a big tent, holding much diversity in views with a single practice: (1) daimoku and gongyo to the Gohonzon, (2) shakubuku, activities and member care, and (3) study of the true teachings and the Gosho.

There are many statue-worshiping Nichiren Buddhists who think that Shakyamuni is God Almighty and everyone ought to bow down to him and his images, even while they bow down as well to the Gohonzon and put the lie to their views by chanting the actual eternal name of the entity, "Myoho-Renge" (you, for instance.) And some of those believing that Shakyamuni is the next Great Jehovah and synonymous with the Judeo-Christic-Islamic Yahweh-Elohim/Trinity/Allah are SGI members.

Bless their hearts, they will wise up at some point, and so will you. Until that time at least they are inside the tent and not outside the tent pissing in, like you lot.

-Chas.

Katie Higgins

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Nov 10, 2017, 5:16:20 AM11/10/17

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Let’s focus on main doctrines here Chas / like the Three Treasures - where you say Nichiren is the Treasure of the Buddha and your eminent Buddhist scholar , Hiroshi Kanno says Shakyamuni is the Treasure of the Buddha, THE ETERNAL BUDDHA. Do you mean to say that SGI is one big collection of heretical views -? I would have to agree and then confront your complacency with major divergence of main doctrines — complicity with slander — the ties that bind !

~ Katie

Chas.

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Nov 22, 2017, 10:05:17 AM11/22/17

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CHAS four points answered for the LAST time.

>
> [1:] Nichiren Daishonin's own golden words in the Gosho refute your idolatry of Shakyamuni directly ("Myoho-Renge" is "the actual name of the entity", not Shakyamuni or Nichiren Daishonin.)

- show quoted text -
This is from a Disputed Gosho-- not in Nichrien's hand, does not bear nNichiren's seal;-- not consistent with authentic Major Writings. As Nichiren himself stated-- refuted texts are not permitted in formal religious debate.

>
> [2:] The Lotus Sutra refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (In the past, 15 elder brothers, father and grandfather, and in the future his disciples and even Devadatta: all are great Buddhas just like Shakyamuni.) These are his golden words you deny.

HERE (again) Chas analyzes the Lotus sutra while disbelieving the portions Nichiren recommended for daily recitation-- (disregarding the eternal Buddha, Shakyamuni=slander) No FAITH=No WISDOM. Sorry, Chas-- you have not attained the wisdom of the Buddha :-( - YOUR analysis is bunk and your arrogance knows no bounds (Ikeda-bot NOT follower of Nichiren)

> > [3:] The Gohonzon refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (the prominence of "Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo Nichiren" over all other entities, Nichiren being the common mortal who is chanting and raising the banner of Myoho.)

FYI Chas- Myoho-renge-kyo is the TITLE- the ESSENCE of the Lotus Sutra, which Nichiren does not separate from Shakyamnui, the Buddha who entrusted Nichiren with propagation of "Myoho-renge-kyo"

BTW- NAMU- is written on the Gohonzon- means "to devote one's life" --to "The Lotus sutra"

> [4:] Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo refutes this dehumanizing deification directly (we chant neither Nam-Shakyamuni-Butsu, nor Nam-Nichiren-Butsu.) This is what you chant every day, Katie Higgins, even though you deny the truth of it.

Here we go again - for the hearing impaired hobo, Chas: "Dehumanizing deification"? Your term, Chas-- your fantasy, Chas-- I have no clue what you are saying, but it sure doesn't resonate with me.
>
> Katie is referencing the teachings of Nichiren-- anyone can do it!!
>

Hope you like this format for "answering" your dimwitted points, chas-- I will not be addressing your bunk from now on,

~Katie

Chas.

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Nov 23, 2017, 12:05:28 AM11/23/17

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Evading my four points IS NOT answering my four points.

On point 1.
No one of any repute, except disreputable you, disputes the "Entity of the Mystic Law" Gosho, that is not an answer, it's an evasion.

On point 2.
Those quotes do not require interpretation (see the posting above):
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.religion.buddhism.nichiren/Q-0eZk5t90k/y7xXKQ7ZAgAJ

either the Buddha is describing his family history, or he is lying and then that part of the Lotus Sutra is a lie. Which of these are you claiming?

On point 3.
Another evasion. Shakyamuni's name is not any more prominent than Many Treasures or the Four Bodhisattvas surrounding those two on the top row. The Goshonzon is centered around the "actual name of the entity" , which is "Myoho-Renge", not another name.

On point 4.
Another evasion. It's the "actual name of the entity" that counts when you chant, not other names that did not exist before the Shakya clan existed, like yesterday, in the kalpa perspective.

Evading is not answering. Either the Lotus Sutra, Shakyamuni, the Gohonzon, Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo and Nichiren Daishonin are all lying, or you, Katie Higgins, ARE TOTALLY WRONG!

-Chas.