JFK Assassination Forum Archives -- Misc. Topics Of Interest (Part 137)

>>> "Question for DVP: What's your take on the 6.5 mm opacity? Last time I asked you that you were undecided as to whether it represented a real bullet fragment or an artifact. .... Thanks. John Canal" <<<

Hi John,

I haven't changed my position on the "6.5 mm. thing" since last year.
The two posts from May 2009 linked below express my thoughts pretty
well (during one of our heated battles concerning the "BOH" and the
"EOP" and "opacities" and other assorted items of interest):

"As for my explanation for the "6.5 mm. thing" -- I have no
explanation. None whatsoever. I have no idea what that "thing" is on
the X-ray. Yes, the HSCA said it was, indeed, a metal (bullet)
fragment. But I have my doubts about that. Maybe it's an artifact that
simply was missed being seen in 1963. I really don't know. But I
certainly do not for one second believe that anyone would have wanted
to "plant" the "object/opacity" onto that X-ray.

"If it had been planted by somebody for the purpose of making
people think it was a chunk of Lee Oswald's bullet that struck JFK in
the head (with those planters certainly aware that the autopsists and
other people would say it WASN'T THERE at all in '63), then didn't the
people planting it realize that they would be in for a lot of backlash
from many conspiracy theorists in the future...i.e., conspiracists who
would be saying just exactly what they ARE saying about that "6.5 mm.
object" today -- that it is an obvious "planted" object on the X-ray?"
-- DVP; 05/19/09

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/7abea215a6270e24

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/msg/4c1b898dfc120293

aeffects

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May 1, 2010, 6:44:45 PM5/1/10

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On Apr 30, 5:51 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:

hey troll, your obsession has finally turned pathological.... that
spells big trouble, boyo!

Ben Holmes

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May 1, 2010, 7:18:05 PM5/1/10

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In article <a0d06914-7beb-46d4...@v12g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
aeffects says...

When I read this, I thought of Rob Caprio! Looks like it's time to stop feeding
the troll...

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben Holmes
Learn to Make Money with a Website - http://www.burningknife.com

Message has been deleted

David Von Pein

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May 1, 2010, 9:22:52 PM5/1/10

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http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/thread/3e64f95c6aa2553a/4108223e4a27f75b?#4108223e4a27f75b

>>> "If a test can be run where within 25 ms, we get a coat bulge like that we see in z224, then one can say the coat bulge at z224 may have been caused by a z224 bullet. But, until such a test is demonstrated, we have to go with Dr. Lattimer's results, which show that maximum coat movement takes place 100 ms after a bullet strike, not 0 ms nor 25 ms later." <<<

WhiskyJoe,

I'm just going by what I'm SEEING in the Zapruder Film. And what I am
seeing is a portion of Governor Connally's suit coat which appears to
be lying FLAT against his chest in Z223 (i.e., the coat/lapel is not
in a "bulged out" state at all in Z223), and then we see that the coat
has moved significantly (bulging outward) just one frame later, in
Z224.

It's fairly obvious to me (when looking at a good-quality copy of the
Z-Film clip in question, such as the one I've linked below), that
Governor Connally's coat/lapel is moving (quite a bit) within the span
of just ONE single frame of the Zapruder Film:

http://reclaiming-history.googlegroups.com/web/137a.+ZAPRUDER+FILM+Z223-Z224+CLIP?gda=lhjBC1QAAADki0TPEquQQ1CO_fZqbtsglZlsaV2-Ue544bTKens2iRcLauhfucTsU3R8-Ayd0yK14EMq9sJvYHkH8fXI6XPrVervUohE3YNENn3wMh1Pnc3OAWZC50hVl-fZ6-QcRqg

So, unless my eyes are deceiving me, then WhiskyJoe is wrong when he
said this on April 30, 2010:

"The coat cannot move that fast."

Governor Connally's coat DID, however, "move that fast" on 11/22/63,
from Z223 to Z224. And, IMO, the above Z-Film clip proves it.

YMMV.

http://Single-Bullet-Theory.blogspot.com

Message has been deleted

David Von Pein

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May 2, 2010, 10:01:05 PM5/2/10

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http://jfkmurdersolved.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1729

Here is today's "Laugh At The Expense Of Conspiracy Kooks":

A few people at Wim Dankbaar's forum of insanity (at the link above)
are wondering what the heck this photo below is all about. Somebody
there thinks it might actually be a "hoax", evidently designed to
throw real researchers off the track (like the conspiracy zanies at
Dankbaar's asylum):

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol1/html/HSCA_Vol1_0119b.htm

Some of the kooks there don't have the slightest idea that the above
photo is an official Ida Dox drawing, done for the HSCA's
investigation in 1978.

You can't beat a CTer for laughs.

aeffects

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May 3, 2010, 11:35:59 AM5/3/10

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On May 2, 7:01 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> http://jfkmurdersolved.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1729
>
> Here is today's "Laugh At The Expense Of Conspiracy Kooks":
>
> A few people at Wim Dankbaar's forum of insanity (at the link above)
> are wondering what the heck this photo below is all about. Somebody
> there thinks it might actually be a "hoax", evidently designed to
> throw real researchers off the track (like the conspiracy zanies at
> Dankbaar's asylum):
>

> http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol1/html/HSCA...

>
> Some of the kooks there don't have the slightest idea that the above
> photo is an official Ida Dox drawing, done for the HSCA's
> investigation in 1978.
>
> You can't beat a CTer for laughs.

you're whining troll.... nobody around buys your bull shit anymore....
back to the KFC grease pits moron!

Steve

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May 3, 2010, 6:32:18 PM5/3/10

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> back to the KFC grease pits moron!- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

And the mark on the x-ray proves exactly one point: One does not have
to have EVERY single answer to EVERY single question that could
possibly arise to solve a case or an historical mystery. Conspiracy
thinkers boast victory if they can raise one or two issues for which
there appears to be no good answer, but that is faulty logic. When
the tables are turned and the kooks are asked to provide answers they
NEVER successfully resolve even a fraction of the issues raised by LN
advocates. On another post I posed about eight questions concerning
the Tippit murder, challenging the nuts to answer some BASIC questions
concerning the murder of J.D. Tippit. True to form Giltard
immediately asked ME to produce the photograph of the paper bag Oswald
carried the MC into the TSBD with. Since Giltard had no answers to my
questions he immediately turned the tables and attempted to avoid
ANSWERING questions and instead resorted to ASKING questions (which is
much easier to do without evidence.)

As I've said before on this and other sites, if one were to purchase a
second-hand 1,000 piece jigsaw puzzle depicting two eagles sitting
atop a dead Joshua Pine tree, only to learn later that fifteen pieces
were missing, conspiracy nuts would maintain that no person living or
dead could EVER figure out what that puzzle was meant to depict with
only 985 pieces correctly assembled. It would be a total mystery to
them. They would ignore the 985 pieces correctly pieced together and
concentrate on the missing fifteen pieces. To them, even though it
LOOKED like a photograph of two bald eagles perched atop a dead Joshua
tree in the desert, they would never dare SAY that was what it really
was. Because in their mind once the missing pieces were found the
puzzle may turn out to be a photograph of a blonde bathing beauty
lying beside a swimming at the Mirage Hotel and Casino in Las Vegas
and NOT two bald eagles after all.

That is exactly why sane, clear-thinking, logical people with normal
powers of deduction and analysis will ever be able to think like a
conspiracy nut with NO observable powers of deduction of any abilities
to connect the dots.

It was this way in 1966 and it hasn't changed in 43 years.

aggie

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May 3, 2010, 8:47:31 PM5/3/10

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Steve <sahi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On May 3, 8:35=A0am, aeffects <aeffect...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On May 2, 7:01=A0pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >http://jfkmurdersolved.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3D1&t=3D1729

And it won't. Overwhelming evidence, to them, is just that: overwhelming.
It boggles their little minds until they scream, "Stop! Stop! No one could
POSSIBLY understand that! It's too overwhelming!"

That's why, after many long months of testimony and presentation of
evidence, the O.J. Simpson jury was relieved to finally hear someone put it
in simple terms: If the glove don't fit, you must aquit. What other
evidence did they need?

Every CN in the world believes that O.J. Simpson was innocent of murder and
for the same reason they think Oswald was innocent: too much evidence
pointing to guilt.

Message has been deleted

David Von Pein

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May 4, 2010, 10:55:56 PM5/4/10

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http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/thread/68e74ab29180c876/4dacdb7207392c8c?#4dacdb7207392c8c

>>> "WC defenders try their phony Argument by Authority, but they never produce the evidence, only lies." <<<

The evidence has been on the table since '63. Tony Marsh, like all
CTers, just refuses to accept it. It's as simple (and silly) as that.

But, naturally, Anthony Marsh and his cohorts in conspiracyville will
continue to twist in the wind and invent anti-SBT theories and other
unsupportable works of fiction and fantasy to keep from facing the
"Oswald Did It By Himself" truth, even though a perfectly good and
reasonable "SBT" is already on the table, thanks to the Warren
Commission's work.

The HSCA's Z190 timeline is ridiculous, but at least they acknowledged
the obvious fact that one bullet--CE399--wounded both JFK and JBC, and
that was the most-important bottom-line conclusion for the House
Select Committee to reach, regardless of the exact timing for that SBT
shot.

CTers, of course, want to believe that not only did the WC get things
all fouled up with respect to CE399 and the SBT, but the HSCA (14
years later and with a totally DIFFERENT group of investigators!) ALSO
got it all wrong too, because the HSCA also said that that exact
bullet--CE399--was THE BULLET that went through the bodies of both
President Kennedy and Governor Connally.

How many official investigations would it take to convince any of the
CT-Kooks of the validity of the Single-Bullet Theory and Commission
Exhibit No. 399? Four? Five? Six investigations perhaps? I wonder.

More conspiracy believers should really watch the first-day and second-
day TV coverage from November 22 and 23, 1963. It blows the various
"multi-gun plots" to bits, and strongly suggests (to the point of
virtual verification after Day 1) three very crucial things:

1.) Three shots (and only three shots) were fired during the
assassination of President Kennedy in Dealey Plaza.

2.) There was only ONE person shooting at JFK.

3.) Lee Harvey Oswald was shooting at JFK.

The math's pretty easy when you've got all three of the above things
staring you in the face.

And the six DPD hallway interviews given by Chief Jesse Curry (linked
below) pretty much seal the deal on Oswald's guilt, right down to
Curry's November 23rd hallway announcement that the DPD had just
received word from the FBI that "the order letter" for the murder
weapon (the C2766 Mannlicher-Carcano rifle) was filled out in the
handwriting of "our suspect--Oswald".

So, just 24 hours after the assassination, the Dallas Police
Department and the FBI had Lee Oswald tied to the President's murder
in various highly-incriminating ways. Let's take a look at just a few
of them:

1.) It was HIS (Oswald's) rifle.

2.) HIS (Oswald's) palmprint was lifted off the gun by Lt. J.C. Day of
the Dallas Police Department. (Lt. Day stated to the Warren Commission
that he was reasonably certain right from the get-go that the
palmprint he lifted off of Rifle C2766 was Oswald's print. That print
was later conclusively proven by the FBI to be Oswald's palmprint.)

3.) By the afternoon of November 23, multiple witnesses had already
identified HIM (Oswald) as J.D. Tippit's killer.

4.) It was HIS (Oswald's) handwriting on "the order letter" [Curry's
11/23/63 words] that was filled out by LHO and mailed to Klein's
Sporting Goods in March '63.

5.) And it was OSWALD who was fighting like a wild man and pulling a
gun on the police in the Texas Theater just 80 minutes after JFK was
killed on a street that was just yards away from where HE (Oswald)
worked.

6.) Plus: the DPD also knew as of 11/22/63 and 11/23/63 that HE
(Oswald) was positively INSIDE THE BUILDING at about 12:32 PM, which
was just two minutes after the President was killed from that very
same building (the TSBD).

Yes, indeed, more conspiracy theorists should take advantage of these
videos linked below which show what was happening in Dallas and at
City Hall--live, as it was occurring--on November 22 and 23.

If the cops were "covering up" a bunch of evidence in the murder cases
of JFK and J.D. Tippit and were engaging in a plot to frame an
innocent patsy named Lee Harvey Oswald THIS QUICKLY on Friday and
Saturday (as many conspiracy theorists seem to believe), then they did
an outstanding job of "framing" him -- because just about every single
thing we see in these videos is spelling out "Oswald's guilty of two
murders":

http://JFK-Assassination-As-It-Happened.blogspot.com

http://DVP-Potpourri.blogspot.com/2009/12/jesse-curry-interviews.html

David Von Pein

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May 5, 2010, 7:49:21 PM5/5/10

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http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/thread/98c367aa2b6f0190/3adc797da28b9867?#3adc797da28b9867

>>> ""DVP" is not much of a mind-reader, so as a result creates strawmen." <<<

"Pam's" pot/kettle gene is on full display here. If anyone has created
a "strawman" regarding the whereabouts of Lee Harvey Oswald at 12:30
PM CST on 11/22/63, it is "Pamela" Brown.

>>> "But then, the mindset of the WC apologist tends to place limits to thinking on one's own, much less following the evidence." <<<

Pot/Kettle #2!

"Pam" has no more "[followed] the evidence" regarding Lee Oswald's
whereabouts and movements on 11/22/63 than Oliver Stone or Jim
Garrison have.

She merely pretends that Oswald was outside on the front steps of the
Depository "watching the motorcade", when there is documentary
evidence to indicate Oswald was not on the steps (e.g., the Altgens
photo, Buell Wesley Frazier's testimony, and Billy N. Lovelady's
testimony).

You're doing great so far, "Pam". (If a .000 batting average is your
goal.)

>>> "It probably has not occurred to "DVP" that it may have been no coincidence that LHO went to the Texas Theater, and that perhaps he was waiting to be told where to go or what to do." <<<

What was "Pam" saying about creating "strawmen" a second ago?

Pot meets kettle for the third time.

>>> "It would also not occur to "DVP" most likely to accept the fact that LHO had nothing to do with the M/C after his return from Dallas..." <<<

Yeah, I guess Oswald went out to Irving for his unusual Thursday-night
visit so that he could take a 38-inch-long submarine sandwich to work
with him the next day.

What was "Pam" saying a second ago about "following the evidence"?
Four pots and kettles so far.

Since "Pam" just said that it's likely LHO had "nothing to do with the
M/C after his return from Dallas" [sic; "Pam" no doubt meant to say
New Orleans here, instead of Dallas; or maybe "Pam" doesn't know what
city Oswald was in at various times in 1963], maybe "Pam" thinks
(i.e., pretends) that some evil "Let's Frame Oswald" conspirator broke
into Ruth Paine's garage prior to the assassination and stole Oswald's
Mannlicher-Carcano rifle.

Perhaps "Pam" would like to tell us just exactly WHO stole Oswald's
rifle and WHEN that theft took place.

As an alternative (and wholly unsupportable) conspiracy theory, "Pam"
will probably claim that nobody needed to break into Paine's garage to
steal the rifle, because the Carcano was never found in the TSBD at
all on November 22, a Mauser was found.

And, therefore, "Pam" might just want to pretend that the DALLAS
POLICE were the ones who placed Oswald's C2766 rifle into evidence --
even though, according to some researchers who are better at
identifying rifles than I am, various frames of Tom Alyea's film prove
that the rifle discovered on the sixth floor was a Mannlicher-Carcano
and not a German-made Mauser.

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc151/David_Von_Pein/MISCELLANEOUS%20JFK-RELATED%20PHOTOS/RifleFoundInTSBDFromAlyeaFilm.jpg?t=1273102309

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc151/David_Von_Pein/MISCELLANEOUS%20JFK-RELATED%20PHOTOS/RifleFoundInTSBDFromAlyeaFilm-2.jpg?t=1273102281

So, regarding Oswald's rifle, whichever way "Pamela" chooses to go,
she's got to rely on her own vivid imagination and/or a lot of crooked
cops who couldn't have cared less about allowing the real killer(s) of
the President to get away scot-free.

>>> "...and that no unfabricated evidence has ever put him [EVERYBODY'S FAVORITE PATSY NAMED OSWALD] in the SN during the assassination." <<<

Yeah, come to think about it a little bit more, "Pam" probably likes
"The Cops Planted The Carcano" scenario better than the "Rifle Was
Stolen From The Paine Garage" tripe.

In other words, when you've got absolutely NOTHING of a physical
nature to back up your silly conspiracy theories -- just say that all
the evidence has been fabricated/faked/manufactured/planted/
manipulated. And then--you're home free.

Great work, "Pam". You're doing a fine job of showing your true
"Everything Was Fabricated" colors today.

And, incredibly, per "Pamela", it is the lone-assassin believers who
have failed to "follow the evidence" in the JFK case.

Why is it that in the world of a JFK conspiracy theorist, white is
ALWAYS black, and up is ALWAYS down, and a guilty person is INEVITABLY
an innocent patsy?

~shrug~

>>> "So, for those who wish to reason logically, the question then becomes, "where was LHO and what was he doing?"" <<<

Looks like it's time for Pot/Kettle #5 here.

If "Pam" really wanted to think and reason logically, she wouldn't be
so willing to sweep tons of Oswald-Did-It evidence under the rug and
she wouldn't be pretending that ALL of that Oswald-Did-It evidence had
been "fabricated" by evil plotters.

>>> "But we won't wait with bated breath for "DVP" to research that; it isn't a picture, or a movie, or the WCR, but something he would have to figure out on his own." <<<

The Dallas Police Department figured out who killed John F. Kennedy
and J.D. Tippit on Day 1 -- and that person was definitely Lee Harvey
Oswald.

The fact that "Pam" cannot figure out something so incredibly easy to
figure out is certainly not my fault. It's hers. (But I still have a
feeling that Ollie Stone and Jimbo Garrison might have helped "Pam" to
reach her strange conclusions--just a touch. Right, "Pam"?)

I'll close this post by repeating the following excellent common-sense
quote from author and ballistics expert Larry Sturdivan, although
"Pamela" undoubtedly would qualify these words as coming from a person
who possesses no common sense or logic whatsoever:

"While one of the pieces of physical evidence could conceivably
have been faked by an expert, there is no possibility that an expert,
or team of super-experts, could have fabricated the perfectly
coordinated whole. This brings to mind the recurrent theme in most
conspiracy books. All the officials alternate between the role of
"Keystone Kops", with the inability to recognize the implications of
the most elementary evidence, and "Evil Geniuses", with superhuman
abilities to fake physical evidence that is in complete agreement with
all the other faked evidence." -- Larry M. Sturdivan; Page 246 of "The
JFK Myths: A Scientific Investigation Of The Kennedy Assassination" (c.
2005)

http://DVP-Potpourri.blogspot.com/2009/12/jesse-curry-interviews.html

http://DavidVonPein.blogspot.com

David Von Pein

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May 11, 2010, 2:40:19 PM5/11/10

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http://www.JFKAssassinationForum.com/index.php/topic,2432.msg44833.html#msg44833

RE: JAMES BRADEN (AKA: EUGENE HALE BRADING):

"[Jim] Garrison, of course, smelled a rat in [Jim] Braden’s
story and had his investigators pursue the matter. Remarkably and
unbelievably for Garrison, he concluded that “after sustained
analysis . . . it was clear that Braden’s contribution to the
assassination was a large zero” (Garrison, On the Trail of the
Assassins, p.239). When you can be cleared of conspiracy in the
Kennedy assassination by the likes of Jim Garrison, you must be
clean." -- Vincent Bugliosi; Page 823 of "Reclaiming
History" (Endnotes)

David Von Pein

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May 11, 2010, 3:41:13 PM5/11/10

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http://www.JFKAssassinationForum.com/index.php/topic,2432.msg44850.html#msg44850

>>> "So why did he [James Braden] lie?" <<<

I think perhaps a better question concerning Braden would be this one:

If James Braden had been "involved" in some way (any way at all) with
the assassination of President Kennedy, then why on this Earth would
he have wanted to place himself AT THE SCENE OF THE CRIME at precisely
the time the crime was being committed?

Braden certainly wasn't a gunman who fired shots at JFK, because
there's absolutely no evidence of that, and there's also no evidence
whatsoever that any shots originated from the Dal-Tex Building. So why
in heck would Braden have any desire to be in Dealey Plaza at 12:30 PM
on 11/22/63 if he was a behind-the-scenes conspirator? Just for the
thrill of it?

Since we know that Braden was certainly not a shooter, then if Braden
had been part of some plot to murder Kennedy, he would have been
thousands of miles from Dallas when Kennedy was hit. That's just
common sense, in my opinion.

Or do some CTers think that Braden was supposed to be a getaway driver
for some of the shooters?

And the same goes for all the other people that many conspiracy
theorists seem to think were right there in Dealey Plaza during the
shooting and were also involved in a plot to assassinate JFK -- such
as: Joseph Milteer and George H.W. Bush, among others. It's just plain
silly to think these so-called conspirators would have wanted to be
right there in Dealey Plaza just to WATCH the murder take place (while
being FILMED and PHOTOGRAPHED at the same time).

And that extends to David Ferrie, to an extent, as well (although not
as a person who was right there in the Plaza on Nov. 22, of course).
But if Ferrie was involved in the assassination, why would he want to
travel TO Texas from New Orleans on the night of the assassination?
Being a pilot himself, Ferrie would have flown himself out of the
country days earlier if he had been part of any plot.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/1a102b6ef1929ad3

Neil Coburn

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May 11, 2010, 3:00:09 PM5/11/10

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Hasn't changed in 43 years. So Why do you waste your time and talent?
Neil Coburn

David Von Pein

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May 11, 2010, 4:15:33 PM5/11/10

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>>> "Hasn't changed in 43 years." <<<

What hasn't changed since 1967?