JFK Assassination Forum Archives -- Misc. Topics Of Interest (Part 117)

>>> "The big question for me is: How did the pristine bullet pierce so many layers of clothing and flesh, bone, etc. and emerge so clean? If someone can answer this then I will be sure Oswald is the killer." <<<

That question is one that nobody can really answer with 100%
certainty. But one thing is a certainty: CE399 is a bullet that was
fired in Lee Harvey Oswald's rifle, and it is a bullet that was found
inside the hospital where the two limo victims (JFK & John Connally)
were taken on 11/22/63.*

* = Notwithstanding, of course, the continual claims by conspiracy
theorists of bullet-planting or substituting with respect to
Commission Exhibit 399. But please do consider this important fact:
Both the Warren Commission AND the HSCA (comprised chiefly of lawyers)
had no problem at all accepting CE399 as the bullet that went through
the bodies of both Kennedy and Connally.

Shouldn't the above fact carry at least SOME weight with conspiracy
theorists when it comes to the subject of: IS CE399 A LEGITIMATE
BULLET IN THE KENNEDY ASSASSINATION?

Or do most conspiracy theorists actually and truly believe that BOTH
the Warren Commission AND the House Select Committee on Assassinations
(which existed 14 years apart from one another) were so evil and so
corrupt (or were just plain stupid, in unison) that each of those
official agencies would accept the very important piece of physical
evidence known as CE399 as a REAL PIECE of evidence, even though
(according to many conspiracy theorists) that bullet never touched
even one of the victims on November 22, 1963?

That's food for CE399 thought...isn't it?

Let me add one more thing regarding Bullet CE399 and its "clean"
status (this being a quote from lawyer and author Vincent Bugliosi):

"One can only wonder why Commission Exhibit No. 399 did not have
any blood residuum on it. My only guess is that the blood traces that
must have been on it were removed by someone early on at the...crime
lab or elsewhere almost as a matter of course. In all the evidence
bullets I handled in court in murder cases during my prosecutorial
career, none had any visible blood on them. ....

"Interestingly, [the FBI's Robert] Frazier testified that with
respect to the two main bullet fragments found in the presidential
limousine [CE567 and CE569], "there was a very slight residue of blood
or some other material adhering, but it did not interfere with the
examination. It was wiped off to clean up the bullet for
examination"." -- Vincent Bugliosi; Page 425 of "Reclaiming
History" (Endnotes)(c.2007)

http://www.ReclaimingHistory.blogspot.com

For an examination of other aspects of CE399 and the Single-Bullet
Theory, go here:

http://www.Single-Bullet-Theory.blogspot.com

Regards,
David Von Pein

aeffects

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Dec 9, 2009, 3:54:27 PM12/9/09

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On Dec 9, 12:43 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:

no advertising shithead....

aeffects

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Dec 9, 2009, 3:54:55 PM12/9/09

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David Von Pein

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Dec 9, 2009, 4:18:32 PM12/9/09

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Now the shithead, Healy, posts in stereo.

Ah....the irony (considering Healy's post below).

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/54db2efe424d2c1e

aeffects

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Dec 9, 2009, 4:25:47 PM12/9/09

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hon, so long as Mr. Doug Horne has you nutter-troll shithead tied up
in knots, I can listen to any bullshit you manufacture and indeed, you
manufacture much.... polluting in fact!

David Von Pein

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Dec 9, 2009, 5:18:38 PM12/9/09

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What does that have to do with you posting in stereo, Mr. Crackpipe/
Healy?

David Von Pein

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Dec 9, 2009, 5:20:43 PM12/9/09

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>>> "So long as Mr. Doug Horne has you nutter-troll...<excise additional DGH tripe>..." <<<

Ah, yes, Mr. Horne. He's the kook who thinks there were "two JFK
brains", right?

'Nuff said about Mr. Horne.

Next kook please....

David Von Pein

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Dec 9, 2009, 8:57:07 PM12/9/09

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ALBERT JENNER (of the Warren Commission) -- "We have now reached the
summer period of 1963, and covered some of it in part. My recollection
of your testimony is that you vacationed in the summer of 1963."

MRS. RUTH PAINE -- "That is right."

MR. JENNER -- "You visited various members of your family up north?"

MRS. PAINE -- "Yes. .... I saw also friends...in Richmond, Indiana,
and then from there I headed directly south to New Orleans."

DVP -- The above testimony about Mrs. Paine visiting Richmond,
Indiana, in the late summer of 1963 really hits home (literally) with
this writer, because Richmond just happens to be the small town in
eastern Indiana where I was born in 1961.

Perhaps some crackerjack conspiracy theorist can now link me (as a
"conspirator") to the Kennedy assassination, by way of Ruth Paine's
visit to my hometown just two months (approximately) before the
President was killed.

Of course, I wasn't even two years old when Ruth visited with some of
her friends in my hometown in September 1963, but that shouldn't
eliminate me as having possibly hosted a clandestine meeting with Ruth
Paine, from my crib, to talk over plans of the assassination. <grin>

When I first saw the words "Richmond, Indiana" in Ruth's WC testimony,
I was a little bit stunned, due to the somewhat remarkable coincidence
of Mrs. Paine, an acquaintance of President Kennedy's assassin, having
actually been in the very small town where I was born* only two-plus
months prior to JFK's death.

* = When I lived in Richmond (1961-1977), the population was 43,999
(via the 1970 Census). The population has dropped slightly since
then.

The topic of Richmond comes up one more time in Mrs. Paine's Warren
Commission sessions too, when she talks about "Earlham College", which
was located approximately one mile from my house in Richmond:

MR. JENNER -- "In some of the materials I have seen there is mention
of a Young Friends meeting or conference at Earlham College in
Richmond, Indiana. I think you made some reference to that yesterday,
did you not?"

MRS. PAINE -- "There was a conference, a Young Friends Conference at
Earlham in 1947. That was the first one I ever attended."

It's quite possible that Mrs. Paine and her immediate family visited
Richmond at other times through the years as well, seeing as how Ruth
and her brother went to college in Yellow Springs, Ohio, which is only
52 miles from Richmond.

Off-Topic Note Re. Richmond:

In 2008, the 40th anniversary was observed of the most newsworthy
event to ever occur in the city of Richmond, Indiana:

At 1:47 PM on Saturday, April 6, 1968, just two days after the country
was shocked by the murder of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., downtown
Richmond, Indiana, was rocked by a series of deadly explosions,
sparked by a gas leak underneath Main Street.

41 people were killed and dozens more were injured by the massive
explosions, which totally destroyed several city blocks of downtown
Richmond.

A "green light" on Main Street very possibly saved this writer's life
that April day in 1968. My brothers and I were on Main Street, riding
in my father's 1967 Chevrolet Impala, when the tragedy occurred. If it
hadn't been for the green traffic lights that were in our favor, my
dad's car would have very likely been sitting on "Ground Zero" just as
the first explosion occurred on Main Street. (Green became one of my
favorite colors as of that day in 1968.)

A new movie about the Richmond explosion, entitled "1:47", premiered
at Indiana University East on April 4, 2008:
http://147film.com/index.html

"1:47" MOVIE TRAILER:
http://147film.com/video/index.html

"DEATH IN A SUNNY STREET":
http://gates.mrl.lib.in.us:8080/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/fulltext&CISOPTR=1981&REC=1

===========================================

David Von Pein

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Dec 11, 2009, 9:26:24 PM12/11/09

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http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/thread/3e09778241ca3ef9

>>> "Robin Ungar [sic; Unger] has uploaded a much clearer copy of the Dillard photo which was taken at Love Field. Hopefully even the professional deniers can clearly see that the chrome topping had not yet been dented." <<<

I'm not too sure that Tom Dillard's Love Field limo photo even shows
the area where the dent occurred.

It looks to me as though Dillard's picture was taken at an angle which
has the limousine's crossbar/(handhold bar) totally blocking the view
of the precise location above the rearview mirror where the dent is
seen in Commission Exhibit 349.

If you open up each of the photos below in separate browser windows
(or tabs) and then toggle back and forth between the two pictures,
you'll see that it appears that the crossbar might be blocking the
view of the exact area of the dent in Dillard's photo:

http://Reclaiming-History.googlegroups.com/web/022a.+LIMOUSINE+AT+LOVE+FIELD+ON+11-22-63?gda=YW3Pf1sAAADQI8aFoPPpMPozfQ5vu_qQ6PLDAFGJtB_gk9Q5PGo1VaIFl7W22pCJDLs79VKWEILJajXn2PF2BSGkRGDE0XnpFoUOEw-dNkI0V1EUe2V6IQZF2vdCvKU-TDZpFtcP-AU&gsc=Dwz77yEAAACTdiqha5UgdciaohS21kSMI4G7ROCHZVH6-nixGdDd6UzfKN-m9S9niuHrq-IEXAE

http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh16/html/WH_Vol16_0485a.htm

However, my analysis on this matter could conceivably be faulty,
because I'm attempting to analyze two different two-dimensional
photographs (taken from different viewpoints). So it's entirely
possible that I am wrong and that the area where the dent occurred is,
indeed, visible in the Dillard Love Field picture.

My basis for concluding that the dented area of the limo does not
appear in Dillard's Love Field photo is mainly by doing an "eyeball"
measurement comparison of the two visor support "rods" (for lack of a
better term for the pieces of metal that stick out from the two visors
and snap into place just above the rearview mirror), which are metal
rods that are visible in both the Dillard photo and CE349.

When doing an "eyeball measurement" of the distance between those two
visor rods and the dent in the chrome in CE349, and then toggling back
to the Dillard photo, it sure looks as though the limo's crossbar is
blocking the precise area where that dent can be seen in CE349.

However, there is definitely an additional part of the car's metal
windshield frame visible in the Dillard picture in an area that would
certainly appear to be ABOVE the place where we see the dent in CE349
(but maybe that's just skewed perception based on attempting to
examine three-dimensional objects in two-dimensional photos). The flag
pole on the left side of the car is being blocked by this additional
portion of the windshield frame in the Love Field photo.

It's hard to tell, but this "additional part of the frame" (again, for
lack of a more precise term for it) doesn't appear to have a
noticeable dent in it. However, there are some darker "lines" of some
kind visible in that part of the windshield frame that contrast
against the almost-totally-white look to that portion of the car that
I suppose could represent some sort of damage. But, again, it's really
very hard to tell.

I'll try to purchase a "Windshield Frame And Visor Rod" dictionary in
the near future, so that maybe my next post concerning this topic
isn't so hard to understand. (I can understand exactly what I mean to
convey, but whether anybody else will be able to decipher it, I cannot
say.) ;)

aeffects

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Dec 12, 2009, 4:17:00 AM12/12/09

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On Dec 11, 6:26 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:

no advertising shithead......

aeffects

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Dec 12, 2009, 4:18:03 AM12/12/09

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On Dec 9, 5:57 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:

uh-uh-huh.... no advertising shithead......

David Von Pein

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Dec 13, 2009, 12:23:02 AM12/13/09

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In a message dated 12/12/2009 11:41:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, a
conspiracy kook named Bill wrote me this heartwarming e-mail message
(the dozens of spelling, grammar, and punctuation errors have been
corrected by DVP, as usual):

>>> "Hi Mr. Von Pein, After viewing your blog page, I have come to believe that with all the time and effort you've spent writing all this disinformation, it must be your job! Is it?? Who pays you to write all this disinformation?" <<<

No, Bill. It's not my "job". Although I wish it were. I don't do much
of anything else very well, so it would be nice if the CIA boys at
Langley would fork over some cash for my "disinformation" efforts, as
you put it. But, to date, I'm still awaiting my first Disinfo check.
(I hope it comes soon.)

Of course, my "lone assassin" writings are far from "disinformation".
The "Single Assassin Named Oswald" conclusion is, of course, where all
of the physical evidence leads, regardless of how many conspiracy
theorists insist otherwise.

I guess you will just have to face that irrevocable fact regarding the
physical evidence, because it's not likely to change in the future.
(Unless you know something that the Warren Commission and HSCA didn't
know....like, say, having in your possession a bullet from a non-
Oswald gun hidden under your pillow that you can positively prove was
fired at JFK on 11/22/63. Do you possess such evidence, Bill? I didn't
think so.)

>>> "The HSCA, which was thoroughly manipulated by the CIA and had final say in its findings (thanks to Blakey) even concluded a probable conspiracy in the death of JFK!" <<<

And, of course, as you no doubt should know, those findings about a
conspiracy that were reached by the HSCA were blown to pieces by the
NAS a few years later, in 1982. The Dictabelt recording most certainly
did NOT contain the sounds (or "impulses") of any gunshots whatsoever.

Perhaps you should have a look at Dale Myers' work on the subject of
the acoustical evidence, which is totally worthless acoustic evidence
that so many conspiracy theorists still seem to want to embrace as if
it were the "Holy Grail Proof Of Conspiracy" in the JFK case:

http://jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/acoustics.htm

The unimpeachable facts laid out by Mr. Myers at his webpage linked
above are yet more facts that you and all other conspiracists will
just have to live with, because the Dallas Police Department Dictabelt
recording (which contains sounds that were recorded about a minute
after the assassination) is not going to suddenly and miraculously
change into a Dictabelt tape that was recorded at exactly 12:30 PM CST
on November 22, 1963.

In closing, let me say that I enjoyed your silly commentary about how
the HSCA was "thoroughly manipulated by the CIA and had final say in
its findings". That was a real treat. It provided the biggest laugh in
the e-mail that you were so kind to send me today.

Thanks. I always enjoy a good laugh at the expense of a hapless
conspiracy-happy kook.

>>> "My Best, Bill <<<

Far from my best,
David V.P.

My new homepage, btw, is linked below:
http://www.DVP's-CIA-Disinfo-Central.gov

Message has been deleted

David Von Pein

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Dec 13, 2009, 1:21:10 AM12/13/09

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A PERSON/RETARD AT IMDB.COM SAID:

>>> "I tell you what's awful, Von Prune -- that your mentor McAdams got his tail whipped by DiEugenio in their debate. Compared to your hero Bugliosi's book, Jim Douglass's book is a best seller. Nobody is buying "Reclaiming Nothing" lol." <<<

DVP [DAVID "VON PRUNE"] SAID:

People like the idea of "conspiracy" a lot more than they do "lone
nut". And since there's no shortage of conspiracy-theorizing crackpots
in the world, then the CT books are going to continue to thrive.

And, as usual, the CTer here has everything reversed. Professor John
McAdams handily won the debate that he had with James "OSWALD CARRIED
NO LARGE BAG AT ALL INTO THE BOOK DEPOSITORY ON NOVEMBER 22"
DiEugenio.

But, as always, conspiracy promoters like to pretend that their "CT"
side possesses enough hard facts to trump the "LN" side. In actuality,
of course, nothing could be further from reality.

The quoted passage that I utilized above in order to play around with
Mr. DiEugenio's name provides a good representative example of how far
a conspiracy theorist will go in order to twist, mangle, and flat-out
CHANGE the documented evidence associated with the murder of President
Kennedy.

Large quantities of DiEugenio's conspiracy-flavored silliness can be
heard at the links below:

http://www.box.net/static/flash/box_explorer.swf?widget_hash=88cm88qq0r&v=1

http://www.Battling-A-Conspiracy-Kook.blogspot.com

Bud

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Dec 13, 2009, 11:38:23 AM12/13/09

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Junkie, this newsgroup is for the discussion of the assassination.
Why don`t you debunk the information DVP presents instead of these
troll responses? The evidence isn`t going to go away just because you
run from it.

Message has been deleted

David Von Pein

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Dec 14, 2009, 4:27:45 AM12/14/09

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http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/thread/e4867a300892d739

>>> "It seems to me you have the hots for Jackie more than you like Kennedy as a president. I think you just like his taste in women. :) [<--Please note the smiley face.]" <<<

Well, now we're getting into another area entirely. But, yes, my
fondness for Jacqueline Bouvier Kennedy has never diminished either.
I've loved her for years, and still do. So, yes, I do indeed admire
Jack Kennedy's taste in wives:

http://DVP-Potpourri.blogspot.com/2009/12/jackie.html

http://Amazon.com/JACQUELINE-KENNEDY-UNSURPASSED-ELEGANCE/lm/3RDBFJ256WIA8

David Von Pein

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Dec 14, 2009, 4:54:16 AM12/14/09

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http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/thread/3e09778241ca3ef9

"Unfortunately, the hand hold bar blocks our view of the chrome
topping in this Dillard photo." -- Anthony Marsh; October 22, 1995

"Robin Ungar [sic] has uploaded a much clearer copy of the

Dillard photo which was taken at Love Field. Hopefully even the
professional deniers can clearly see that the chrome topping had not

yet been dented." -- Anthony Marsh; December 11, 2009

--------------

I'm confused, Tony. In 1995, you readily admitted the exact same thing
that I was talking about earlier in this thread when I said this:

"It looks to me as though Dillard's picture was taken at an
angle which has the limousine's crossbar/(handhold bar) totally
blocking the view of the precise location above the rearview mirror

where the dent is seen in Commission Exhibit 349." -- DVP; 12/11/09

But now, in 2009, you seem to think that a clearer copy of Dillard's
Love Field photo suddenly DOES reveal the area where we see the dent
in CE349??? Is that correct, Tony?

Did the handhold bar of JFK's limo magically move out of the way in
this clearer version of Tom Dillard's photograph?:

http://Reclaiming-History.googlegroups.com/web/022a.+LIMOUSINE+AT+LOVE+FIELD+ON+11-22-63?gda=X3SG8lsAAADQI8aFoPPpMPozfQ5vu_qQbl3Co_XnUimBntYDHVj04qIFl7W22pCJDLs79VKWEILJajXn2PF2BSGkRGDE0XnpFoUOEw-dNkI0V1EUe2V6IQZF2vdCvKU-TDZpFtcP-AU&gsc=JOzzBQsAAAA84sWG7cSb_c62uiR4U8Hg

Message has been deleted

David Von Pein

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Dec 14, 2009, 9:28:09 AM12/14/09

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http://www.JFKAssassinationForum.com/index.php/topic,1488.msg20791.html#msg20791

>>> "[Dale] Myers is a liar and a fraud." <<<

Bullshit.

Dale Myers has done excellent work on several aspects of the JFK
murder case -- from debunking the acoustics charade...to the J.D.
Tippit murder (via his outstanding and detailed book, "With
Malice")...to his Single-Bullet Theory 3D animation (which is probably
the very best simulation of the SBT we will ever see).

I just wish Dale would decide to sue at least one of the kooks who
keep calling him a "liar" and a "fraud". And I've heard several people
on various forums use those precise words in the past too. But I'd bet
my house that not a single one of those CTers knows even one-tenth as
much about photography, animation, and photogrammetry (and J.D.
Tippit's murder) as does Dale K. Myers.

But, as we all know, a total lack of knowledge has never stopped a
good conspiracy theorist from peddling large amounts of nonsense
concerning the events of November 22, 1963.

Maybe if Dale Myers were to take one of the conspiracy nuts to court,
it would make them think twice about verbally defaming a good man in
the future.

http://www.JFKFiles.com

http://www.JDTippit.com

http://www.With--Malice.blogspot.com

aeffects

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Dec 14, 2009, 12:43:17 PM12/14/09

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On Dec 14, 6:28 am, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:

Dale Myers is a troll, shithead.....

NO advertising there hon!

Message has been deleted

aeffects

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Dec 14, 2009, 9:24:54 PM12/14/09

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On Dec 14, 6:21 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:

sending yourself email again, eh shithead.....

-and- NO advertising there hon!

David Von Pein

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Dec 14, 2009, 9:37:13 PM12/14/09

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On 12/14/2009 at 3:36:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,
I received this e-mail:

"Since my last question on the pristine bullet, everything has
changed dramatically. For years now I have been reading every
conspiracy theory possible and I have been influenced by Jim Garrison
and especially Oliver Stone's movie 'JFK'. I have always assumed that
what they put forward were actual facts.

"I have searched every possible angle for a frontal shot,
Badgemen, Picket Fence etc., and not one shred of hard evidence ever
emerged. Also the theories are becoming more daft. The impression
given is that Warren Report was totally incompetant and deceitful and
that Oswald was an innocent person.

"I finally last week decided to read some of the Warren
[Commission Report], something I have never done in my life. I have
been completly blown away by what I am reading. It's like waking up
from a hypnotic trance. From the detailed evidence gathered, no one
but Oswald did this murder.

"The truth is far more shocking, because a great President was
killed by a mentally sick and delusional man who planned this killing
in such a sinister way. So many people saw this shooting from the
sixth floor. Why were these facts never mentioned in 'JFK'? What was
most sad was the lack of security on the Limousine.

"Thanks for reply."

===============================

MY REPLY:

Thanks for your last (very sensible) e-mail.

BTW/FYI, you can read every last page of the 888-page Warren Report
online on your computer....plus you can read every page of all 26
supporting volumes too. Here:

http://history-matters.com/archive/contents/contents_wc.htm

DVP

aeffects

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Dec 14, 2009, 9:40:13 PM12/14/09

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Message has been deleted

David Von Pein

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Dec 14, 2009, 10:20:44 PM12/14/09

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A KOOK NAMED "VIDEOJOHN" AT IMDB.COM SAID THIS GARBAGE RECENTLY, AND
FRACTURED THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE TO PIECES WHILE SAYING IT; I'LL FORGET
ABOUT ADDING MY USUAL [sic] NOTATIONS HERE; THERE WOULD BE ABOUT 152
OF THEM IF I HAD DECIDED TO DO THAT, THOUGH:

>>> "All of the (so called) "evidence" is cirmstantial and much [of it is] fake as well." <<<

Every single thing ejaculated by "VideoJohn" (via the most tortured
English imaginable) is 100% bogus (and just plain stupid, to boot).

But, naturally, a retard like "VJ" doesn't mind looking like a retard
(and an illiterate one at that). He appears to relish and savor the
role.

>>> "1) SBT invented by altering Autopsy wound locations." <<<

#1 on "VJ's" list is disproven by taking just one look at CE903 (which
is a Commission Exhibit that all conspiracy-loving retards always
totally ignore, probably due to the fact that that one exhibit ALONE
disproves the popular myth that the WC needed to "raise JFK's back
wound up into the neck in order for the SBT to be plausible".

http://Reclaiming-History.googlegroups.com/web/119.+CE903?gda=LZMpPDwAAADQI8aFoPPpMPozfQ5vu_qQoRXz8qshJSwbr75t2u8uoil61k0AMZJieNRhY9YK56_9Wm-ajmzVoAFUlE7c_fAt

>>> "2) Purchase/ownership of the Carcano was never proven that of LHO." <<<

#2 -- Disproven in many ways, via the documents in OSWALD'S
HANDWRITING that positively prove he ordered the JFK murder weapon in
March 1963. Conspiracy retards like "VJ", quite naturally, ignore the
handwriting evidence in favor of their retarded pro-conspiracy
assertions.

>>> "3) Third shell caseing added, only two (2) rounds were fired from TSBD." <<<

#3 -- Disproven by CE510 (DPD picture showing three shells in the
Nest). And disproven in various other ways too, including the
testimony of multiple DPD and Sheriff's officers who testified to
THREE shells being found in the Sniper's Nest.

http://Reclaiming-History.googlegroups.com/web/074a.+THREE+BULLET+SHELLS+FOUND+IN+TSBD+SNIPER%27S+NEST?gda=B3FXw2kAAADQI8aFoPPpMPozfQ5vu_qQmWRb9NyW44htvOJbbYMPE-b4nxXGSepDGQKscLxMDR5-SFN4DNGB16sScKia7Zks-hEblyNrtl_F7CWyFgZ_lI5mdpvIvJW3QPcvTrj7Q2aECKgQbmraGdxlZulaYnsh

But a kook wants to cite only the one report that says the DPD turned
over two shells to the FBI on Nov. 22, which is true. But there were
three shells removed from the TSBD, with shell #3 being retained in
Dallas by Captain Fritz.

All of this is easily proven, but retards like their "Two Shells
Found" option much better, despite its foundation of mush.

>>> "4) The 'backyard photo' is a fake." <<<

#4 -- Proven inaccurate by the HSCA and the Warren Commission. One of
the backyard photos was positively linked to Oswald's very own camera
(via the negative that exists for that photograph, proving it was
taken with that Imperial-Reflex camera).

And if ONE of the backyard pictures was taken with Lee Oswald's own
camera, then ALL OF THEM WERE (regardless of how many there were).

How can we know this? Simple common sense. Because each photo shows
the EXACT SAME THING (except for LHO's precise pose).

Retards like the "faked photos" option much better than the truth,
however. So, by God, to them those backyard pics are frauds,
regardless of the fact that the negative to one of the photos could
have come from only one single camera on Planet Earth -- Lee Harvey
Oswald's Imperial-Reflex camera.

>>> "5) [Of] The two (2) rifles found[,] one is gone (knowone [LOL] knows nuttin) and the other is never tested for discharge, in the field or in a Lab." <<<

#5 -- Only one rifle was found in the TSBD, and all reasonable people
know it. The mix-up in the brand name of the weapon is easily
understandable, since a Mannlicher-Carcano is, essentially, an ITALIAN
MAUSER. "Mauser" being the generic type term for "bolt-action rifle",
which Oswald's Carcano was.

Kooks like Bob Groden (et al), however, enjoy pretending that a SECOND
rifle was actually found on the sixth floor of the Book Depository.

But within the context of a "Let's Frame Oswald" plot, how much sense
does the "Two Rifles" theory make anyway? Was Oswald The Patsy
supposed to be able to fire TWO rifles at the President at the same
time or something?

Those plotters were brainless idiots, weren't they? (Just like "VJ"
apparently.)

>>> "6) After proof of LHO being on the lower floors[,] the WC then claims he could have "ran down the stairs"." <<<

#6 -- Oswald could definitely have run (or walked) down 4 floors in
time to see Officer Baker in the lunchroom. That fact was proven on
several occasions, with the WC doing time tests to prove it. And it
was done at a "normal walking pace" by Joe Howlett of the Secret
Service in just 78 seconds.

But the conspiracy lovers like to pretend that it was humanly
"impossible" for anybody (Oswald or otherwise) to travel down four
flights of stairs in approx. 90 seconds.

Such is the way with conspiracy fools -- they'll ignore the facts till
a cow shows up on the front porch.

>>> "7) The only evidence of the Carcano being the murder weapon[,] CE-399[,] is highly suspect. Bullets don't "fall out" and land in front of government agents." <<<

#7 -- A double dose of factoids and myths here. The kook named "VJ"
thinks that the ONLY thing that ties Oswald's rifle to the murder of
JFK is CE399. How stupid is that assertion? Pretty stupid, considering
he's also got CE567, CE569, and the three bullet shells in the
Sniper's Nest staring him in his face too.

But let's just ignore the fact that bullet fragments FROM OSWALD'S GUN
were found in the front seat of the car that JFK was murdered in,
right VJ? Those were probably planted there too, right?

Retards like that word "planted". Without it, they've got nothing to
hang their withered hat on.

#7b -- Since when did CE399 "fall out and land in front of [a]
Government agent"? Was Darrell Tomlinson supposedly working as a
"Government agent"?

Mr. "VJ" is plain nuts. (But, then too, that was obvious after #1
above.)

>>> "8) The Warren Commission never proofread their own report and issued it in such "disarray" (without Index) so the public couldn't read it." <<<

#8 -- Is just plain stupid. Even without a complete index, the
material IS STILL THERE--IN PRINT for everybody to see if they so
desire. This is just another convenient excuse for CTer VJ to ignore
what's IN the Warren Report. (And he will ignore it, all day long.
It's what conspiracy retards do best--ignore the evidence.)

>>> "9) Aferward (asssembled with Index) the conclusions were beyond belief." <<<

#9 -- Another really stupid item here. VJ evidently thinks that by
adding an index to the WCR, a conspiracy can firmly be established.
(Oh, my weak bladder!)

>>> "10) Political 'Commissions' can't determin the gilt or innocense of anyone, or any group and [that is] why they [are] 'appointed'. "Do nothings" to do nothing." <<<

[Gosh, what an illiterate.]

#10 -- VJ closes out with another gut-busting piece of silliness. So,
the WC can't reach a conclusion on who killed the President, eh Mr.
Retard?

Gee, I wonder why the Commission was even formed in the first place
then? Just to waste some of the taxpayers' money, ya think?

Oh, that's right! It was formed to nail Oswald to the wall from the
get-go--regardless of the evidence. Right, retard?

It's just too bad that you can't come within a hundred miles of
proving #10. (Or numbers 1 through 9 either.)

But I'm sure that you're accustomed to batting a solid .000 whenever
you debate an LNer on the JFK assassination. I doubt you could even
foul a pitch off.

http://www.The-JFK-Assassination.blogspot.com

David Von Pein

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Dec 14, 2009, 10:21:23 PM12/14/09

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http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102138/board/flat/153286450?d=latest&p=3#153418423

aeffects

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Dec 14, 2009, 11:21:04 PM12/14/09

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aeffects

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Dec 14, 2009, 11:21:24 PM12/14/09

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David Von Pein

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Dec 14, 2009, 11:43:12 PM12/14/09

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"Another new era? How many new eras does this make? We had one
new era after charlatans like [Josiah] Thompson and [Mark] Lane began
spewing false attacks on the Warren Commission.

"Then we had the Jim Garrison era. Then there was the public
release of the Z-film that was going to usher in a new era. Then we
had the post HSCA era. Nothing much happened for about a decade. Then
we had the Ollie Stone era followed by the ARRB era.

"All of these eras brought the promise that we would finally get
at "the truth". Well, all those eras came and gone [sic] and nothing
much happened. The CT's keep beating their dead horse hoping it will
come back to life. It ain't happening guys.

"Where you are at is where you are going to remain. Hopelessly
lost in the wilderness. It's over. Game, set, and match came a long
time ago. You aren't going to change the outcome no matter how hard
you try." -- J. Corbett (aka "BigDog"); December 14, 2009

http://www.Quoting-Common-Sense.blogspot.com

David Von Pein

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Dec 14, 2009, 11:44:22 PM12/14/09

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"Many conspiracists enjoy screaming "Oswald's innocent until
proven guilty in a court of law, and he never got that trial, so we
must say he's officially innocent". ....

"But it doesn't seem to bother some of these same conspiracy
theorists when they point an accusing finger of GUILT (sans any trial)
at many other non-Oswald people and groups who these CTers think were
involved in the assassination. E.G.: The Mob, the Secret Service, the
Dallas Police Department, the FBI, the KGB, the CIA, and even
President Johnson himself!

"Doesn't the PRESIDENT deserve the same benefit of the doubt
that CTers say the LNers never give Lee Harvey Oswald (especially in
light of the fact that it wasn't LBJ's rifle or shells or prints found
on that 6th Floor on Nov. 22)?!

"Or are the rules completely different once the tables are
turned with respect to this "Innocent Till Proved Guilty" topic?

"And, seeing as how all of the physical evidence DOES, indeed,
point to Oswald, while no hard evidence points to any of the other
people/groups I mentioned above, it seems to me that the CTers are in
a boat with many more holes in it when it comes to this topic than are
any lone-nutters.

"If I were to hang a sign on that "CT boat" in question, the
sign would most certainly say: "Beware: Hypocrites On Board!" " --
David Von Pein; July 23, 2007

http://www.Quoting-Common-Sense.blogspot.com

aeffects

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Dec 15, 2009, 12:47:19 AM12/15/09

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On Dec 14, 8:44 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:

quoting yourself has become YOUR national past time.... carry on
shithead and remember

NO advertising, shithead......

Walt

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Dec 15, 2009, 9:01:04 AM12/15/09

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On Dec 14, 10:44 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> "Many conspiracists enjoy screaming "Oswald's innocent until
> proven guilty in a court of law, and he never got that trial, so we
> must say he's officially innocent". ....
>
> "But it doesn't seem to bother some of these same conspiracy
> theorists when they point an accusing finger of GUILT (sans any trial)
> at many other non-Oswald people and groups who these CTers think were
> involved in the assassination. E.G.: The Mob, the Secret Service, the
> Dallas Police Department, the FBI, the KGB, the CIA, and even
> President Johnson himself!
>
> "Doesn't the PRESIDENT deserve the same benefit of the doubt
> that CTers say the LNers never give Lee Harvey Oswald (especially in
> light of the fact that it wasn't LBJ's rifle or shells or prints found
> on that 6th Floor on Nov. 22)?!

Hey Von Pea Brain.... Your post is an excellent example of your
convoluted reasoning.....

The crux of your argument is that a double standard is perfectly
acceptable. You're completely comfortable with Oswald being lynched
without any trial or chance to present any defense, but you think that
Lyin Bastard Johnson shouldn't even be suspected....even though he was
the one with the strongest motive for murdering JFK.

And as for the rifle and prints being in the building..... Anybody
with the brain of a common garden slug should know that a person's
prints would be expected to be found in their work place.

And the rifle was PLANTED ....... A "throw down" gun which was
completely buried beneath heavy boxes of books DURING the shooting.

Yer no the brighest bulb on the tree are ya??

robcap...@netscape.com

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Dec 15, 2009, 9:42:04 AM12/15/09

to

On Dec 14, 11:44 pm, David Von Pein <davevonp...@aol.com> wrote:
> "Many conspiracists enjoy screaming "Oswald's innocent until
> proven guilty in a court of law, and he never got that trial, so we
> must say he's officially innocent". ....

Very true, too bad the DPD ALLOWED him to be gunned down, huh?

> "But it doesn't seem to bother some of these same conspiracy
> theorists when they point an accusing finger of GUILT (sans any trial)
> at many other non-Oswald people and groups who these CTers think were
> involved in the assassination. E.G.: The Mob, the Secret Service, the
> Dallas Police Department, the FBI, the KGB, the CIA, and even
> President Johnson himself!

Every one brought to trial has a "finger of guilt pointed at them" or
they wouldn't be there. The point is many of those folks could have
been brought to trial (where the prosecutor would have had to lay out
their case and evidence) IF the state of Texas or the government
wanted to, but obviously they preferred to accuse a person in the
media for committing the crime while all of their evidence proves
another scenario happened.

> "Doesn't the PRESIDENT deserve the same benefit of the doubt
> that CTers say the LNers never give Lee Harvey Oswald (especially in
> light of the fact that it wasn't LBJ's rifle or shells or prints found
> on that 6th Floor on Nov. 22)?!

The PRESIDENT is NOT taught to be an ACTIVE MEMBER OF THE CONSPIRACY
in school, the media or any other official retelling of the case, now
is he? NO is the correct answer. IN FACT, if anyone suggests this in
the media, i.e. History channel, they are whipped so severly they
never do it again and then begin showing PRO-LHO stuff almost
exclusively.

> "Or are the rules completely different once the tables are
> turned with respect to this "Innocent Till Proved Guilty" topic?

NONE of these folks have bee accused OFFICIALLY moron! YOU are saying
a few CT authors/researchers have the same weight as EVERY media
outlet, institution of learning, EVERY MAJOR HISTORY BOOK, and our
government?

Please.

> "And, seeing as how all of the physical evidence DOES, indeed,
> point to Oswald, while no hard evidence points to any of the other
> people/groups I mentioned above, it seems to me that the CTers are in
> a boat with many more holes in it when it comes to this topic than are
> any lone-nutters.

NO physical evidence points to LHO being the shooter, that is the
problem you have. Why else do you think 90% of Americans don't buy
what you are selling?

> "If I were to hang a sign on that "CT boat" in question, the
> sign would most certainly say: "Beware: Hypocrites On Board!" " --
> David Von Pein; July 23, 2007

LOL!! This moron thinks a few CT authors/researchers have the same
impact as EVERY media outlet, institution of learning, EVERY MAJOR
HISTORY BOOK, and our government! I guess they should be flattered,
huh?

(snip the junk that shows NO common sense at all!)

robcap...@netscape.com

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Dec 15, 2009, 9:50:25 AM12/15/09

to

YOU were doing so well too! The TRUTH does NOT need lies to support
it!

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/jfkinfo3/exhibits/ce514.jpg

The rifle was NOT buried "beneath heavy boxes" liar.

Why do you constantly tell this lie?

Mr. BALL - I show you 514. Is that the way it looked when you saw it?
Mr. BOONE - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Is that the way it was when the picture was taken?
Mr. BOONE - Yes; I believe so.

David Von Pein

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Dec 20, 2009, 11:59:02 PM12/20/09

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http://groups.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/thread/f308188c02cfae5f

RE: THE TIME OF ARRIVAL FOR JFK'S BODY AT BETHESDA NAVAL HOSPITAL.....

"The presidential motorcade, having left Andrews at 6:10 p.m.
EST, takes the Suitland Parkway to Bethesda. .... At 6:55 p.m., the
navy ambulance with its escort of cars and motorcycle police arrives
at Bethesda." -- Page 144 of "Reclaiming History"

Vincent Bugliosi's source for the times:

"6:10 p.m. and 6:55 p.m.: CE 1024, 18 H 744, 757"

The "18 H 744" source used by Bugliosi comes from a report filed by
Secret Service agent Clint Hill on 11/30/63, and the "18 H 757" source
is from a 11/30/63 report by SS agent Paul Landis. Both agents say in
their respective reports that the President's body arrived at Bethesda
at "6:55 p.m.":

18 H 744:
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh18/html/WH_Vol18_0379b.htm

18 H 757:
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh18/html/WH_Vol18_0386a.htm